BEAT-LIST-950612

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Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 20:33:48 EDT

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From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: otr film

I've heard rumors that Francis Ford Coppola is casting Sean Penn as Dean

and Brad Pitt as Sal Paradise. Kerouac said that he thought Marlon

Brando should have played Dean and Montgomery Clift Sal. Just to get

the ball rolling on this discussion group, what do you think? What pair

of actors would you cast as the ideal Dean Moriarty and Sal Paradise?

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Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 08:28:01 EDT

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From: "Stedman, Jim" <JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>

Subject: Re: otr film

In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of WED 07 JUN 1995 20:33:48 EDT

>I've heard rumors that Francis Ford Coppola is casting Sean Penn as Dean

>and Brad Pitt as Sal Paradise. Kerouac said that he thought Marlon

>Brando should have played Dean and Montgomery Clift Sal. Just to get

>the ball rolling on this discussion group, what do you think? What pair

>of actors would you cast as the ideal Dean Moriarty and Sal Paradise?

If the above rumour is true, then it substantiates the rumour that

Mr. Coppola is in the biz for the bucks.

Sean Penn and Brad Pitt are fine kid actors... cutey pies. I don't

think that's what's needed for OTR, though. Actually, I don't think the

lead characters need to be necessarily be kids (or those faces we

automatically relate-to as kids'... Michael J Fox, for instance).

Wouldn't it be great to see Lyle Lovett play Dean?

Just like when OTR was announced as a books-on-tape, I'm eagerly

awaiting the product, but I don't expect to be enchanted by the

thing. Besides, I think Dharma Bums and Subteranneans would make

better films.

Jim

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Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 09:28:45 EDT

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From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: Re: otr film

In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 8 Jun 1995 08:28:01 EDT from <JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>

On Thu, 8 Jun 1995 08:28:01 EDT Stedman, Jim said:

>>I've heard rumors that Francis Ford Coppola is casting Sean Penn as Dean

>>and Brad Pitt as Sal Paradise. Kerouac said that he thought Marlon

>>Brando should have played Dean and Montgomery Clift Sal. Just to get

>>the ball rolling on this discussion group, what do you think? What pair

>>of actors would you cast as the ideal Dean Moriarty and Sal Paradise?

>If the above rumour is true, then it substantiates the rumour that

>Mr. Coppola is in the biz for the bucks.

>Sean Penn and Brad Pitt are fine kid actors... cutey pies. I don't

>think that's what's needed for OTR, though. Actually, I don't think the

>lead characters need to be necessarily be kids (or those faces we

>automatically relate-to as kids'... Michael J Fox, for instance).

>Wouldn't it be great to see Lyle Lovett play Dean?

>Just like when OTR was announced as a books-on-tape, I'm eagerly

>awaiting the product, but I don't expect to be enchanted by the

>thing. Besides, I think Dharma Bums and Subteranneans would make

>better films.

>Jim

The Subterraneans was made into a movie in 1960. George Peppard played

Leo Percepied and Leslie Caron played Mardou Fox. It was full of

gratuitious violence. Kerouac was furious about it.

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Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 10:11:34 -0400

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From: "Mark S. Gordon" <ab797@OSFN.RHILINET.GOV>

Subject: Re: otr film

I'd rather see Penn and Pitt reverse roles, Penn as Paradise, Pitt as Moriarty.

Pitt is beautiful, no doubt, but he is something of a dunderhead who excels at

"noble savage" type roles. Penn could better carry off the portrayal of the

sensitive and intelligent Sal Paradise, alter-ego of Jack himself. Especially

if Coppola uses a 1st person voiceover narration, I think Pitt would be

disastrous.

I'd like to see Gary Oldman as Paradise and Val Kilmer as Moriarty, but I'm not

picking.

Mark S. Gordon

"He not busy being born is busy dying."

"Then he was told: Remember all you have seen, because everything forgotten

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Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 16:25:56 EDT

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From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

I haven't been able to get to alt.books.beat generation through my

netnews group. Can anyone give me a specific address so that I can try

to subscribe directly? Thanks.

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Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 15:32:18 -0700

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From: "Patrick M. Mirucki" <Patriick@IX.NETCOM.COM>

>I haven't been able to get to alt.books.beat generation through my

>netnews group. Can anyone give me a specific address so that I can try

>to subscribe directly? Thanks.

Well..It looks as though your alreaady subscribed to it. I'm currently

subscribed to the Beat Generation List and received your message.

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Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 11:16:41 +1000

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From: Brian Lynch <Brian_Lynch@MUWAYF.UNIMELB.EDU.AU>

Subject: OTR casting

I thought the following message was great advice on possible casting for the

film version of On the Road:

***

I'd rather see Penn and Pitt reverse roles, Penn as Paradise, Pitt as

Moriarty.

Pitt is beautiful, no doubt, but he is something of a dunderhead who excels

"noble savage" type roles. Penn could better carry off the portrayal of the

sensitive and intelligent Sal Paradise, alter-ego of Jack himself.

Especially

if Coppola uses a 1st person voiceover narration, I think Pitt would be

disastrous.

I'd like to see Gary Oldman as Paradise and Val Kilmer as Moriarty, but I'm

not

picking.

Mark S. Gordon

***

Let's not forget that Dean Moriarty was the alter-ego representation for Neil

Cassady, who was very handsome, as well as rugged--Pitt might work well

indeed (I agree that he'd be better off as Dean rather than Sal). Val Kilmer

as Moriarty crossed my mind, too, but I wouldn't want to see the Sal/Kerouac

character come off as less physical than Moriarty--Kerouac, in addition to

vying with Cassady in the handsomeness department, was a good-sized, rugged

guy himself (football at Columbia).

Someone else suggested Lyle Lovett for Moriarty--that would definitely be

interesting, although Lyle would really have to stretch to capture the

speed-rapping manic brilliance of Cassady.

Let's keep those casting suggestions coming! Perhaps we can inspire an

alternative, low-budget counterproposal to the Coppola project!

Brian K. Lynch

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Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 11:32:43 +1000

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From: Brian Lynch <Brian_Lynch@MUWAYF.UNIMELB.EDU.AU>

Subject: a previous message

In case this didn't make it to the List. I was responding to the original

call which mentioned that Kerouac had thought Brando would make a good Dean

and Montgomery Cliff would be the best Sal for the film version of On the

Road:

"I think Kerouac had it about right. If we try to find those of the

appropriate age in the present time, I'd be interested in seeing Johnny Depp

have a go at Sal and let Anthony Kiedis (have to cut his hair) of the Red Hot

Chili Peppers try on Dean."

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Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 14:22:27 -0400

Reply-To: ab797@osfn.rhilinet.gov

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From: "Mark S. Gordon" <ab797@OSFN.RHILINET.GOV>

Subject: Kerouac Conference at NYU

Did anyone else attend the Kerouac conference at NYU, held earlier this week.

Here are some snapshot observations:

1. I came away with a heightened appreciation for Kerouac as a poet. In fact,

I think it may be fair to say that he was a poet FIRST, and a fiction writer

second.

2. Gregory Corso is in deep, deep trouble personally and I hope the people who

know and love him (Ginsberg, Ferlinghetti, etc.) are trying to save him.

3. Kerouac left an incredible crush of material behind: books, journals, poems,

paintings, drawings, letters, notes. It may be that most of what he wrote hasn't

even been released yet. Not only was this a revelation to me, but it served as

a reminder that writers (which I am) and artists need to be creating all the

time in as many mediums as they can. Never again will I leave my house without a

notebook and pen and not feel a twinge of guilt. Kerouac may have had failings

as a person - we all do - but his writer's discipline has to be considered the

standard.

Mark Gordon

"He not busy being born is busy dying."

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Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 14:24:24 -0400

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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Mark S. Gordon" <ab797@OSFN.RHILINET.GOV>

Subject: Re: OTR casting

In addition to difficulties recreating the breakneck pace of Dean Moriarty's

style, Lyle Lovett would have problems with Dean's overwhelming physicality.

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Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 17:18:19 EDT

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From: "Tracey L. Milton" <milton_t@APOLLO.HP.COM>

Subject: Ann Charters in Framingham, MA 6/17

Ann Charters in Framingham, MA

Ann Charters, Kerouac biographer, and editor of the recently published

Collected Letters and Portable Kerouac will speak at Border's Bookstore,

85 Worcester Rd (Rte 9), Framingham, MA at 2:00 PM, Saturday, June 17. For

information call (508)875-2321.

posted by tracey on behalf of Lowell appreciates Kerouac!

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Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 12:43:15 EDT

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From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: Road Movie

I came upon this professional note in the May issue of PMLA which I

thought I'd pass on: "Steven Cohan and Ina Rae Hark seek submissions

for a collection of essays on the road movie. The book seeks to look at

the road movie historically and culturally from a variety of critical

and theoretical perspectives. Consideration of the road move's

relations to questions of nationalism, sexuality, technology, and genre

are especially welcome; papers examining connections between road films,

road literature (e.g. Kerouac), and television (e.g. Route 66) are also

invited. Contributors should send 2-page proposals and vitae by 15

August 1995 to both Cohan, Dept. of English, Syracuse Univ., Syracuse,

NY 13244 (fax 315 443-5390), and Hark, Dept. of English, Univ. of South

Carolina, Columbia 29208 (fax 803 777-1302) Preliminary inquiries may be

sent to smcohan@mailbox.syr.edu and hark@hsscls.hssc.scarolina.edu

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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 23:42:38 -0500

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From: "ALAN C. REESE" <S72UREE@TOWSONVX.BITNET>

Subject: Uncle Bill

What's the concensus of opinion out there on WB's appearance in the

Nike commercial?

Does anyone know the physical, mental status of Gregory Corso? Heard he was

doing poorly.

I'm reading Kerouac's letters and find the Charters explanatory interludes

a bit unnecessary, slightly intrusive. and somewhat repetitive. The last

letter from Sebastian Sampas really foretells the coming of Dean Moriarty.

Anyone else out there perusing same?

Alan C. Reese

Baltimore

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Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 11:21:47 EDT

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From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: Re: Uncle Bill

In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 14 Jun 1995 23:42:38 -0500 from <S72UREE@TOWSONVX>

At first, I thought some of Charters' footnotes were obvious. Is there

really a need to identify G.B. Shaw as an Irish dramatist? Given the

wide audience of the Selected Letters, however, maybe it is necessary.

Teaching freshman at Brooklyn College, it often surprises me how little

they know of literature or history.

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Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 12:23:09 -0500

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From: "ALAN C. REESE" <S72UREE@TOWSONVX.BITNET>

Subject: Re: Uncle Bill

Shouldn't a footnote not only be informative, but relevant? For example,

the Shaw note as a case in point. Is it going to help a freshman or any

other ignorant lout who is bothering to read K.'s letters to know that

Shaw was an Irish dramatist? Shouldn't there be something more to

connect the reference to K.'s state of mind, themes, characters, or

whatever? I think by eliminating the unnecessary and redundant in Charters'

footnotes and explanatory notes, the collection of letters could have included

more kerouac letters.

ACR

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Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 17:33:17 EDT

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From: "Tracey L. Milton" <milton_t@APOLLO.HP.COM>

Subject: Ann Charters Visit (fwd)

> Ann Charters in Framingham, MA

> Ann Charters, Kerouac biographer, and editor of the recently published

> Collected Letters and Portable Kerouac will speak at Border's Bookstore,

> 85 Worcester Rd (Rte 9), Framingham, MA at 2:00 PM, Saturday, June 17. For

> information call (508)875-2321.

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Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 09:36:21 -0700

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From: Michael Bertsch <mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>

Subject: Re: Uncle Bill

In-Reply-To: <01HRQGJWYDBM8Y6V76@TOE.TOWSON.EDU>

I found it useful to know that Oscar Wilde had been imprisoned for

homosexuality--found it in a footnote in the Kerouac letters book by

Charters.

Michael Bertsch

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Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 09:44:36 EDT

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From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: kerouac jack's

Does anybody know of a restaurant in the Chicago area called Kerouac Jack's? I

f anyone has been there, I'd like to know what you thought of it. I'm heading

for Chicago and am wondering if it's worth a visit.

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Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 10:43:25 -0500

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From: William Baker <c60wxb1@CORN.CSO.NIU.EDU>

Subject: Re: kerouac jack's

In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%95062009470883@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

No but look forward to seeing you in the windy city.Bill BakerOn Tue, 20 Jun

1995, Bill Gargan wrote:

> Does anybody know of a restaurant in the Chicago area called Kerouac Jack's?

> f anyone has been there, I'd like to know what you thought of it. I'm heading

> for Chicago and am wondering if it's worth a visit.

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Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 15:40:08 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

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From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: Re: kerouac jack's

In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 20 Jun 1995 10:43:25 -0500 from

<c60wxb1@CORN.CSO.NIU.EDU>

Got your new e-mail address. See you at the EALS mtg.

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Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 16:38:02 EDT

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From: Win Mattingly <GMATT1@UKCC.UKY.EDU>

Subject: What's Burroughs up to?

Does anybody have any information about what William S. Burroughs has been up

to recently? I've read (I forget where) that he isn't traveling much but I

don't know if that means he no longer makes public appearances or reads,

teaches, etc. I've wanted to hear him speak/perform for most of my adult life

and would greatly appreciate any info anyone might have on the subject, also

anything on recent or upcoming publications.

thanks,

Win Mattingly

gmatt1@ukcc.uky.edu

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Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 09:49:25 EDT

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From: mARK hEMENWAY <mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>

Subject: Re: What's Burroughs up to?

Win,

You are right. My info is that WSB does not travel and really doesn't make

public appearances, although he has done telephone hook-ups for the 94 NYU

Conference and one or two others.

A book of his letters is being published this year, or is already out. I

don't have the details at hand, but the bookstroe should be able to help

out. You can also call 1-800-KEROUAC for an excellent catalog of current

beat stuff, they may have it. Let me also reccommend "Beat Scene"

Magazine. It's a British publication that does a great job of covering the

beats past and present. The issue before last (I think) featured WSB.

Write: Kevin Ring, 27 Court Leet, Binley Woods, NR, Coventry,

Warwickshire, CV3 2JQ, England.

I am co-publisher of "Dharma beat" magazine. We aim to help publicize

Kerouac and sometimes beat related activities, publications and

organizations. Spring 95 included articles on Desolation Peak, Mexico City

Blues, Big Sur and events around the country. Send me your snail mail

address and I will send you a sample if you are interested.

Mark Hemenway

mhemenway@s1.drc.com

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Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 15:08:49 +0100

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From: RADLEY-FASCIONE M D <M.D.Radley-fascione@CITY.AC.UK>

Subject: WSB

Win

Don't know if you've heard, but Uncle Bill has had a new work recently

published, by Viking in States I think, called My Education (A Book of

Dreams). It's great and covers old Tangier days up to relatively recent

times in Lawrence...Highly recommended, buy it now, you won't regret it.

Also, I assume you know about the recordings Bill made with the Disposable

Heroes of Hipophrasy (sp?), Spare Ass Annie, a couple of years ago now

(course you do!)

Daniel

P.S. Does anyone have, or know where I can get, a definitive list of WSB

works post Western Lands? Any help appreciated.

Thanks

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Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 10:44:54 -0400

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From: Richard Centing <rcenting@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>

Subject: Re: kerouac jack's

In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 20 Jun 1995 09:44:36 -0400 (EDT)

BEAT-L:what would Kerouac Jack's serve:apple pie and coffee?

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Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 14:14:39 EDT

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From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: WSB letters

Someone wanted a citation for Burroughs' letters the other day. It's

*The Letters of William S. Burroughs 1945-1959.* NY: Viking, 1993.

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Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 12:12:44 -0700

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From: Jim Harrod <jaharrod@UCI.EDU>

Subject: Burroughs Sighting

Andrei Condrescu's new book - "The Blood Countess" - has an endorsement on

the back of the dust jacket by William S. Burroughs - he calls the book "a

page turner".....

Jim Harrod

jaharrod@uci.edu

url = http://bookweb.cwis.uci.edu:8042/

ph = (714) 824-7878

fx = (714) 824-8545

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Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 13:48:50 EST

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From: "Holden, Lindel" <lholden%smtplink@RELAY.NSWC.NAVY.MIL>

Subject: Fire Watcher

So are there any openings for fire watchers up there in the

Cascades? by the Skagit with a view of Hozomeen?

samsara sam

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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 12:31:03 -0500

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From: Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>

Subject: Kerouac

This may seem impertinent coming from a young person who has been thrown

into the Category: Generation X, but my husband told me about BEAT-L

because I recently read "Visions of Gerard" and was moved by Kerouac's

sincere yet fictionalized perception of his brother. I, too, had an older

brother who died when I was 8 years old...and I have found that

losing someone that I loved so dearly at such a young age was one of the

most difficult events in my life. I never had a chance to know my brother,

and so he became a "saintly" image in my past. Kerouac's honest approach to

immortalize his brother brought tears to my eyes.

I've started to read "On the Road" and I am up to his arrival in

Denver. It reminds me somewhat of Pirsig's travels in "Zen and the Art..." I

can't wait to hear what Kerouac's perceptions are of the people he will meet

and the places he will go. I am only 25, and a far cry from a Beatnik, but in

my heart I feel connected somewhat to the ideas and experiences that Kerouac

writes about. Forgive me if this note is not what this Mailing list is looking

for; sometimes I just need to know that maybe there is someone who can

understand why I feel close to a certain writer, and since I haven't yet

seen a Vonnegut mailing list, I thought I would give this a try. :)

Go in peace.

Kristen

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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 11:58:57 -0500

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From: Nick Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU>

Subject: Re: Kerouac

As another new member of the list, I'm glad to see it works! Personally I

feel Kerouac takes his place as one of the great writers because of what

Kirsten says here. He meant a lot to me when I was growing up for completely

different yet equally intense and personal reasons. As a young Brit growing

up in gloomy ealy 70's London, he made me get on a Greyhound and explore

America for three months as soon as I could at age 17, and as I explored his

works he spoke to me again and again. That was before I went into

publishing, discovered a lot more about what his style meant and how

important all of that was to the future of writing. For that matter he also

got me into jazz, and is probably a good proportion of the reason I'm now

living here in the States twenty years later. I think that both his honesty

and his writing style do get into people's souls in a way few if any others

do, and that's what stands out. And of course looking back some of it seems

naive now, but there's always plenty more in the writing to explore. So

maybe others feel the same way?

Nick W-W

>This may seem impertinent coming from a young person who has been thrown

>into the Category: Generation X, but my husband told me about BEAT-L

>because I recently read "Visions of Gerard" and was moved by Kerouac's

>sincere yet fictionalized perception of his brother. I, too, had an older

>brother who died when I was 8 years old...and I have found that

>losing someone that I loved so dearly at such a young age was one of the

>most difficult events in my life. I never had a chance to know my brother,

>and so he became a "saintly" image in my past. Kerouac's honest approach to

>immortalize his brother brought tears to my eyes.

>I've started to read "On the Road" and I am up to his arrival in

>Denver. It reminds me somewhat of Pirsig's travels in "Zen and the Art..." I

>can't wait to hear what Kerouac's perceptions are of the people he will meet

>and the places he will go. I am only 25, and a far cry from a Beatnik, but in

>my heart I feel connected somewhat to the ideas and experiences that Kerouac

>writes about. Forgive me if this note is not what this Mailing list is looking

>for; sometimes I just need to know that maybe there is someone who can

>understand why I feel close to a certain writer, and since I haven't yet

>seen a Vonnegut mailing list, I thought I would give this a try. :)

>Go in peace.

>Kristen

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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 13:05:24 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: DAVIS ALAN <davisa@MHD1.MOORHEAD.MSUS.EDU>

Subject: Re: Kerouac

In-Reply-To: <9506281631.AA02001@imageek.york.cuny.edu>

Right on, Kristen. It's why we read, and it's who we are. Al

On Wed, 28 Jun 1995, Kristen VanRiper wrote:

> This may seem impertinent coming from a young person who has been thrown

> into the Category: Generation X, but my husband told me about BEAT-L

> because I recently read "Visions of Gerard" and was moved by Kerouac's

> sincere yet fictionalized perception of his brother. I, too, had an older

> brother who died when I was 8 years old...and I have found that

> losing someone that I loved so dearly at such a young age was one of the

> most difficult events in my life. I never had a chance to know my brother,

> and so he became a "saintly" image in my past. Kerouac's honest approach to

> immortalize his brother brought tears to my eyes.

> I've started to read "On the Road" and I am up to his arrival in

> Denver. It reminds me somewhat of Pirsig's travels in "Zen and the Art..." I

> can't wait to hear what Kerouac's perceptions are of the people he will meet

> and the places he will go. I am only 25, and a far cry from a Beatnik, but in

> my heart I feel connected somewhat to the ideas and experiences that Kerouac

> writes about. Forgive me if this note is not what this Mailing list is

looking

> for; sometimes I just need to know that maybe there is someone who can

> understand why I feel close to a certain writer, and since I haven't yet

> seen a Vonnegut mailing list, I thought I would give this a try. :)

> Go in peace.

> Kristen

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 21:18:14 +0300

Reply-To: jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Joseph Rodrigue <jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM>

Subject: Re: Kerouac

Comments: To: pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU

In-Reply-To: <9506281631.AA02001@imageek.york.cuny.edu> (message from Kristen

VanRiper on Wed, 28 Jun 1995 12:31:03 -0500)

Very interesting post. Funny that you read `Visions of Gerard' before OTR; I

don't think I've gotten around to reading Gerard, though I think I've looked

at it. It's not the first title that comes to mind when you mention Kerouac.

I wondered reading your post about how you would react to OTR; perhaps I was

thinking more of Neal Cassady's `First Third'. I had a friend once who

couldn't stand OTR, while I couldn't stand her favorite book, `Been down so

long...' by Richard Farina. I dumped her, of course. As for Pirsig's book, I

absolutely can't stand that either. I wondered if liking one of these books

automatically means you won't like certain others.

Somehow I find I can relate very well to the Beats and their writing, while I

simply cannot relate to so-called classical English and American literature

(before Joyce, say). I just fail to see what's so good about it. It is

_much_ too verbose and almost unrelievedly dull.

About `First Third', I gave a copy to an old friend of mine who read one of

the more sexist passages aloud and threw it on the floor in disgust. I picked

it up and kept it, so it was a great present from my point of view. As for

the (ex-) friend, he went from being a misogynist with great promise to a

pussy-whipped puppet who can't think for himself. It's really a shame. Hate

to see a good man go bad like that. But remember, folks, it just goes to show

that Cassady is a great barometer for these things. And if that fails to

please, try Bukowski.

(Sorry, Vonnegut's just a little too cute and clever for me. As Jack would

say, his stuff is `just fiction').

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 14:35:46 -0600

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Martin Taylor <mtaylor@GPU.SRV.UALBERTA.CA>

Subject: Re: Kerouac

In-Reply-To: <9506281631.AA02001@imageek.york.cuny.edu>

On Wed, 28 Jun 1995, Kristen VanRiper wrote:

> understand why I feel close to a certain writer, and since I haven't yet

> seen a Vonnegut mailing list, I thought I would give this a try. :)

Hello Kristen, try the newsgroup:

alt.books.kurt-vonnegut

martin

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 13:57:16 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Frank Beacham (via RadioMail)" <beacham@RADIOMAIL.NET>

Subject: Re: Kerouac

To Kristen:

To me your comments are just what this mailing list is about. Thanks for

the best reason I've heard lately on why to read Kerouac.

Frank Beacham

163 Amsterdam Ave. #361

New York, NY 10023

(212) 873-9349

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 17:00:54 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Willard Goodwin <wgoodwin@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>

Subject: Classic English lit

Joseph Rodrigue wrote:

>Somehow I find I can relate very well to the Beats and their writing, while I

>simply cannot relate to so-called classical English and American literature

>(before Joyce, say). I just fail to see what's so good about it. It is

>_much_ too verbose and almost unrelievedly dull.

And yet the Beats themselves had very great reverence for the English

Romantics (see my favorite Ginsberg poem, "Wales Visitation," an explicit

allusion to Wordsworth), Blake especially, and much of the ancient sacred

literature; and in American literature for Melville at least, of the

"classics." Of course Joseph, de gustibus non disputandum est.

P.S. At this Center we have deep archival research collections in Beats

(even if Stanford recently acquired the great Ginsberg archive).

Willard Goodwin, Bibliographer

Harry Ransom Humanities Research Center

University of Texas at Austin

P.O. Box 7219

Austin, TX 78713-7219

(512) 471-9113; FAX (512) 471-9646

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 17:18:12 CST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: GUITAR GOD <SGUNTER@BVILLE.NWSC.K12.AR.US>

Organization: Bentonville High School

Subject: Re: Kerouac

I, too, am new to the list but found your post enlightening. How

good it is to find this list, to find other seekers. Yes, go in

peace, and may you stay forever young....thanks.... (PS im sure i

will find out how but is it possible to digest Beat-l?)

############

Steve Gunter

BHS/NWACC

Bentonville,AR 72712

####################

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 01:38:08 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Kerouac

>because I recently read "Visions of Gerard" and was moved by Kerouac's

>sincere yet fictionalized perception of his brother.

Coolness, Kristen....Yours is the first post I've received since starting

this list and you love my favorite Kerouac book.

The connection I've made to Kerouac's writings has always been through the

heart. To this day I remember the way I felt the first time I read Visions of

G about 20 years ago - as if I had stumbled upon a well of unashamed

sweetness and tenderness. You could send me running back to the book right

now, except that I'm just starting on William Vollmann's long "Fathers and

Crows". There is something about Vollmann that reminds me of Kerouac.

Perhaps they are both just the kind of sensitive bad boys that some women

love (on paper at least).

Glad to hear from all of you!

Julie Hulvey

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 08:30:52 +0100

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Andy Petrie... 01473 224001" <petrie_a@SVHDEV.BT.CO.UK>

Subject: Re: Kerouac

Hello from sunny England...

First of all, greetings to all on this list. :) I signed up a few days ago, and

things were quiet at first, before Kirsten's post. Now more and more of us seem

to be crawling out from under our respective stones... Did I just happen to sign

on at a quiet period?

Well, like I say, I'm new to the list, and relatively new to the Beat. My first

great love was poetry of all kinds, which of course led to "Leaves of Grass",

"Howl" etc. I'm now immersed in "On the Road", which I figured was as good a

place to start as any. Do correct me if I'm wrong - suggestions always welcome!

Love and Peace,

Andy

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 07:00:27 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Gene Simakowicz <Genebard@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Kerouac

Wow!

I just signed on the list a few days ago also. It's great to be here. As for

the Kerouac reading list, I agree, ON THE ROAD is probably the Bible. How

about a question to kick off some newsgroup discussion?

Do you think On The Road would make a good movie?

If so, whom would you cast in the two main roles?

Gene

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 07:41:36 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Stedman, Jim" <JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>

Subject: Re[2]: Kerouac

In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of WED 28 JUN 1995 23:00:27 EDT

>Wow!

>I just signed on the list a few days ago also. It's great to be here. As for

>the Kerouac reading list, I agree, ON THE ROAD is probably the Bible. How

>about a question to kick off some newsgroup discussion?

>Do you think On The Road would make a good movie?

>If so, whom would you cast in the two main roles?

>Gene

OTR is one of FF Cop.'s projects, even as we speak, but I don't think

it's been announced who is appearing in the leading roles. I wouldn't

mind getting into a discussion about how _we_ would try and treat the

production, were it ours to treat.

This will probably be the one film that folks will have to hang Jack's

raincoat on... and I think my treatment would include more than the OTR

narrative. It would be interesting to have the action presented (through

flashback or whatever) by a 1967 Jack. The film would then include not

only the story of OTR, but also the fall-out of OTR.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 08:54:32 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>

Subject: Re: Kerouac

In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.91.950628143322.97629A-100000@gpu2.srv.ualberta.ca>

from "Martin Taylor" at Jun 28, 95 02:35:46 pm

> Hello Kristen, try the newsgroup:

> alt.books.kurt-vonnegut

> martin

thank you! :)

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 09:07:48 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>

Subject: Re: Kerouac

> Joseph Rodrigue wrote:

> >Somehow I find I can relate very well to the Beats and their writing, while I

> >simply cannot relate to so-called classical English and American literature

> >(before Joyce, say). I just fail to see what's so good about it. It is

> >_much_ too verbose and almost unrelievedly dull.

> And yet the Beats themselves had very great reverence for the English

> Romantics (see my favorite Ginsberg poem, "Wales Visitation," an explicit

> allusion to Wordsworth), Blake especially, and much of the ancient sacred

> literature; and in American literature for Melville at least, of the

> "classics." Of course Joseph, de gustibus non disputandum est.

I was thinking about this comment yesterday, and I realize why it is that

I am not always impressed with "classical" literature... I think it's

because I'm impetuous, for the most part, and Kerouac does offer that

spontaneous, from-the-gut, sort of writing that appeals to my impetuous

nature. I don't want to say that my youth is the only reason for being

this way...I've met many impatient people of all ages :).. and even

though I find it to be my biggest fault, it is part of what makes me the

person that I am. I guess it's all about what you are willing to accept in

your mind and your soul. :) There will come a time when I will be more

accepting. In some ways, I am. Joe talked about how others would

recommend books to him that he found deplorable. I know of so many

writers that I can relate to that have nothing in common, really,

other than my personal connection. I always try to keep an

open mind. :)

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 09:24:04 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>

Subject: Re: Kerouac

In-Reply-To: <950629013806_80620634@aol.com> from "Julie Hulvey" at Jun 29,

95 01:38:08 am

> >because I recently read "Visions of Gerard" and was moved by Kerouac's

> >sincere yet fictionalized perception of his brother.

> Coolness, Kristen....Yours is the first post I've received since starting

> this list and you love my favorite Kerouac book.

> The connection I've made to Kerouac's writings has always been through the

> heart. To this day I remember the way I felt the first time I read Visions of

> G about 20 years ago - as if I had stumbled upon a well of unashamed

> sweetness and tenderness. You could send me running back to the book right

> now, except that I'm just starting on William Vollmann's long "Fathers and

> Crows". There is something about Vollmann that reminds me of Kerouac.

> Perhaps they are both just the kind of sensitive bad boys that some women

> love (on paper at least).

I was wondering how other women feel about Kerouac. :) This morning, I

got to thinking about the women I've read about so far in OTR. Granted,

it is only a perception, and I'm only in San Francisco right now, but it

reminds me of my mother and the sadness I feel when I think of all that

she expected out of life and how disappointed and disallusioned she

became. I think there is a "sensitive bad boy" in me. Pete Townsend

said, "I am a man and a woman," and I believe that he meant sexuality to

be a perception and not a gonad. :) Jack's perception of women may

sadden me, but it was his reality. It's a reality that exists today.

I also got to thinking about "Visions of Gerard" and Jack's mother; how she

lived with the abuse of an alcoholic husband who could not face

death. My mother, to this day, will not accept and chooses to live in a

"drunken stupor" of her own. Jack shows that gender is not a factor when

one chooses to deny life.

Nice to hear from you. :) Peace.

Kristen

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 09:30:23 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: cyberJack <jackb@MSI.NET>

Subject: Re: Kerouac

> I, too, am new to the list but found your post enlightening. How

>good it is to find this list, to find other seekers.

I am always encouraged that one can find seekers everywhere.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 08:43:02 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: JoAnn Ruvoli <jruvoli@ORION.IT.LUC.EDU>

Subject: Re: Kerouac

In-Reply-To: <9506291307.AA25229@imageek.york.cuny.edu>

On Thu, 29 Jun 1995, Kristen VanRiper wrote:

> because I'm impetuous, for the most part, and Kerouac does offer that

> spontaneous, from-the-gut, sort of writing that appeals to my impetuous

> nature.

Kerouac thought of writing as a performance, like a jazz musician who

has only one chance to perform a night, Kerouac wrote (performed)

straight through. You can't change or revise a improv jazz solo, and

Kerouac believed the same about writing.

JoAnne

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 09:49:42 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Stedman, Jim" <JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>

Subject: First Reading of On The Road

In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of THU 29 JUN 1995 00:24:04 EDT

Date: Summer, 1973

Place: Guest room at Helen Forbes' house, a few miles out of Nairobi

Circumstances: Our family grew up in Kenya (my dad was in the United

Nations). Hell of a party melted into my having to spend the night at

the Forbes' place, rather than motorcycling home (20 miles). I woke up,

and the place was empty. The headboard of the guest bed doubled as a

book case, and I tipped my head back to scan the titles. _On The Road_

was the first and only book I pulled from the collection.

I recognized the author's name from readings about Dylan (Anthony

Scaduto's book, mostly), and from the liner notes off of "Blood On The

Tracks" (I think).

Once I started reading, I knew I was in trouble. My travelling feet had

long been itching... and I only stayed in one place long enough to

finish the book (one sitting).

I turned the last page, ran outside, hopped on my Norton 750, and tore

off for Mombasa (300-some miles away) (where I was certain that Kim was

waiting for me).

As it turned out, the book has remained faithful. Kim had found a new

guy, the bike led me into a bad wreck, and Scaduto's biography has been

poo-pooed. Yeah, OTR remains faithful to that first (and all subsequent)

readings... and I suppose Dylan has as well.

Jim Stedman

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 09:54:33 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>

Subject: Re: First Reading of On The Road

In-Reply-To: <29JUN95.10614910.0010.MUSIC@NMU.EDU> from "Stedman,

Jim" at Jun 29, 95 09:49:42 am

> readings... and I suppose Dylan has as well.

> Jim Stedman

How true.

Kristen VanRiper

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 10:03:45 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Stan Bernstein <sbernst@PANIX.COM>

Subject: Kerouac audio tape

In-Reply-To: <29JUN95.08308993.0076.MUSIC@NMU.EDU>

At a Street Fair on Carmine Street in Greenwich Village, New York City

about five years ago, a vender had set up his table with "Spoken

Arts"-type tape casettes. I purchased one called "Jack Kerouac & Neal

Cassady--a private recording 1953--1954." The notice within the casette

case reads: "Jack & Neal together 1953-54 @ Cassady's house, San Jose,

CA. Neal reads Proust; Jack tries to correct his pronunciation of

'Gilberte'; Jack sings and reads from Dr. Sax. Neal approves, Neal

discusses Burroughs, Comment by Carolyn; 1967,8(?) reading from Vanity of

Dulouz and talking." Publisher of the casette is listed as Cassette

Gazette, 83 rue de la Tombe Issoire 75014 Paris, France.

Listened to this casette during a long bus trip and really enjoyed it.

Wonder if other such tapes are floating around and if so where do you get

them?

Thanks to whoever started this list--a truly great idea.

All best wishes/SB

sbernst@panix.com

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 10:21:22 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Andrew J Schwartz <schwrtz@MAGICNET.NET>

Subject: Re: Kerouac audio tape

>sbernst@panix.com said:::

>Listened to this casette during a long bus trip and really enjoyed it.

>Wonder if other such tapes are floating around and if so where do you get

>them?

Ryko Disc came out with a box set of beat spoken performances a few years

ago that seems to have some similar material.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 15:58:32 BST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: James Douglas Jack - Tartan Warrior! <jjack@MPC-UK.COM>

Subject: The tongue of angels

Salutations and halos,

Great to hear such rapturous appreciation of writing. Anyone else out

there into Gregory Corso as well ? And Vonnegut ? And Thomas Wolfe...

I know I'm probably pushing the definition of 'beat' here, but what the

forceps, if it's cool it's cool. I like that idea of writing being a one

off performance - reminds me of the debate in 'Naked Lunch'.

A confession to end : I've never read any Kerouac. Is his prose as

alive as Ginsbergs songs ? Which one should I start with ?

Peace and Pirhanas,

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 11:05:19 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Win Mattingly <GMATT1@UKCC.UKY.EDU>

Subject: Re: Kerouac

In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 29 Jun 1995 01:38:08 -0400 from <JHulvey@AOL.COM>

I just discovered Vollman, myself! In the past week I've read Whores for

Gloria and The Rainbow Stories. Both are *fantastic* and definitely Kerouac-

esque, in subject matter (S.F. counterculture and Tenderloin street scene) and

flowing, seemingly spontaneous prose style. In White Knights, an autobiograph-

ical account of Vollman's experiences hanging out with S.F. skinheads, one of

the skinheads remarks on Vollman's story (while loading a bong-hit): "Dee says

you need work on your grammar, you use too many run-on sentences. She should

know, she went to college." What a perfect comment on education, on how often

we kill what is good and natural and real in language, the forces Kerouac and

the other beats wrote against! I think Vollman owes much to Kerouac (and

Burroughs, to whom he is often compared as an explorer of the dark seamy

underbelly of the city.) What do the rest of you think about Vollman? Is he a

direct descendent of the beats? How does his vision of the Tenderloin compare

with Kerouac's? I'm not sure if a this list is even the place to talk about a

gen. x'er like Vollman, but this is the first contact I've had with others who

have even heard of him, so I thought I'd speak up...

--Win Mattingly

Also, what about Bukowski? Again, not strictly a beat but definitely some con-

nection. Does anybody know about any Bukowski lists? I'd also like to join in

some dialogue about H. Selby, esp. Requiem for a Dream and whatever he's doing

these days (I heard he teaches at USC, what about recent writing and confer-

ences?)

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 11:33:58 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Ron Morrow <MORROW@ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA>

Subject: First Reading Of "On The Road"

The first time I read "On The Road" was in 1974. It was the

Summertime and I was scheduled to start at University in

the Fall. So, I decided to do some travelling. My brother

had given me the book and I read it as I hitchhiked from

Toronto to Vancouver and then north to Alaska. I was 17 at

the time and had an opportunity to expand my horizons in

many different ways. Reading "On The Road" and being on the

road at the same time is an experience that I will always

remember.

Hope those of you who haven't read it yet will enjoy it as

much as I did that Summer.

Ron

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