* album where he sings Blake poems accompanying himself on harmonium,

plus guest artists like Don Cherry, Elvin Jones, Peter Orlovsky

 

if this doesn't prompt others to remember better than me, I'll look in

my music collection this weekend(!)

 

- Greeley not Creeley

----------

From: Joe Reifer  <jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>

To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L  <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Subject: broken bones

Date: Friday, July 14, 1995 1:30PM

 

There's a song that Al Ginsberg sings in the recent documentary about him

that goes..."broken bones, broken bones...etc."

Does anyone know if a recording of this is available?

It doesn't seem to be on the box set, but maybe it is?

A posting of available recordings would be great.

 

tanks,

 

joe

 

jreifer@wahoo.sjsu.edu

http://gallery.sjsu.edu/ArtH/Tibet/main.html

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 16 Jul 1995 16:25:57 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Shana Skaletsky <isis@MARS.MCS.COM>

Subject:      Re: broken bones

In-Reply-To:  <9507161213.AA22666@netmail2.microsoft.com>

 

On Fri, 14 Jul 1995, Bruce Greeley wrote:

 

> I haven't heard Ginsberg's boxed set but believe it has different

> material than one earlier record he put out with a bunch of 'downtown,

> skronking jazzbos and avant-rockers' -- where the recording you're

> talking about may have come from -- unfortunately, I don't remember the

> title to this ("The Lion is Roaring" maybe?) which is at home.

> Other recordings which Ginsberg has been on:

> * song with "The Clash" (?title?)

>

> if this doesn't prompt others to remember better than me, I'll look in

> my music collection this weekend(!)

>

> - Greeley not Creeley

> ----------

 

I believe that the song Allen Ginsberg recorded with The Clash is called

"Ghetto Defendant", and can be found on The Clash album "Combat Rock",

recorded @1980. While we're on the topic, I was wondering if anyone knew

anything about a rumour I heard-it involved Allen and the rock band U2

recording something together. can anyone confirm or deny this for me?

 

-Shana

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 16 Jul 1995 17:46:50 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "Matthew C. Curcio" <curcio@BIOC02.UTHSCSA.EDU>

Subject:      LynxOfTheWeek71495

 

Hey Guys abd Girls,

 

Thought some of you would like to cruise the web sites of distinction and

this might be one you will like.

 

http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/People/JackKerouac.html

 

Have Fun

Matt

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Jul 1995 18:15:52 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         OWNERSHIP@AOL.COM

Subject:      YOU'RE FIRED!

 

Soft-pedal it all you want by calling it a "reduction in force",

"downsizing", whatever.   The fact is, you have heard these words, or will at

some point in the near future unless you take Ownership of your talents and

skills.

 

The workplace is changing faster than ever before in the history of mankind.

 In order to fit in, you, I and everyone who works needs to become an expert

is what we do and find a way to partner with a company so we can both

succeed.

 

I've been in your shoes and have Coached a lot of people through the process

of identifying where they fit into the future workplace.  Last fall, I put my

thoughts into a book entitled, The Unchained Worker.

 

Here is an overview of The Unchained Worker - Principles of Ownership in the

Workplace, and what people are saying about it.

 

Ownership inspires and motivates us to take action, to protect and improve

what's ours.  We own our talents, experience and capabilities.  When we put

them in partnership with a company, the future is ours to make........

 

What is Ownership?  It's a new perspective for all of us to use when dealing

with our jobs.  Ownership is a mind-set, an attitude that forces you to look

no further than yourself to secure your future in the workplace.  It's the

catalyst for superior individual performance within companies.  It provides a

common vocabulary for workers to excel as individuals.  Ownership motivates

people to develop their talents and bolster individual performance.  It puts

success in their hands..........

 

Table of Contents.

1.  Take control of your future with Ownership

2.  Ownership is a vocabulary for success.

3.  Ownership is a problem solving tool.

4.  Ownership exercises your brain.

5.  Adjust your attitude for better performance.

6.  Ownership starts with common sense.

7.  Ownership is the workplace of the future.

8.  Get work done more efficiently with Ownership

9.  How Mis-applied responsibility holds you back.

10. Ownership in Action.

11. The principles that will guide your success.

12. Ownership is an Adventure

13. Ownership unleashes your performance.

 

The intended audience is everyone who works.  There are 142 pages with plenty

of graphics and illustrations.  It's about a 2 hour read total.

 

Here's what people are saying about The Unchained Worker:  I've always

believed in the individual's desire to succeed.  Creating the right

environment is the key.  Ownership will work in any organization, Great stuff

- Dennis Erickson, Head Coach Seattle Seahawks.  Inspirational! Fantastic!

What a wonderful book.  It made me think about things I've never considered.

Thanks. - Staci Clevenger, Assembly line worker.

 

I want to wish you the very best of luck in your careers.

Jeffrey C. Petkevicius

 

Cybernetix Inc.

14817 N. Jennifer Ct.

Mead, WA 99021

(800) 517-4268

FAX: (509) 467-9573

Ownership@aol.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:13:00 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>

Subject:      Re: YOU'RE FIRED!

In-Reply-To:  <950717181549_116873402@aol.com> from "OWNERSHIP@AOL.COM" at Jul

              17, 95 06:15:52 pm

 

> Cybernetix Inc.

> 14817 N. Jennifer Ct.

> Mead, WA 99021

> (800) 517-4268

> FAX: (509) 467-9573

> Ownership@aol.com

 

 

I believe it's proper internet etiquette to harass this sorry-ass

dude by phone, e-mail, and any other methods that come to mind.  LET'S

GET HIM!!!  A 1-800-number ... Wow ...

 

Anyway, why does he think people who read Beat literature have employment

problems?  Maybe he thinks we're a bunch of bongo-playing beatniks here.

 

Also, besides the fact that this is a spam ... his book sounds extremely

lame.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------

                Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com

 

  Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html

                 (the beat literature web site)

 

    Queensboro Ballads: http://levity.willow.com/brooklyn/

                  (my fantasy folk-rock album)

 

                    * * * * * * * * * * * * *

150 years ago this month, Thoreau built a house near Walden Pond:

         "So I went on for some days cutting and hewing

          timber, and also studs and rafters, all with

          my narrow axe, not having many communicable

          or scholar-like thoughts, singing to myself -- "

-----------------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:29:37 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Joe Reifer <jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: YOU'RE FIRED!

In-Reply-To:  <950717181549_116873402@aol.com>

 

Uh, I thought this was supposed to be stuff about beat authors - not

about the politics of having a job in the world today (although a

correlation would have been nice and made that post - not reposted here

for sake of space - relevant).

 

joe

 

things are symbols of themselves - a. ginsberg

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Jul 1995 21:24:25 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "KEVIN M. KELLY" <kkelly3@OSF1.GMU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: YOU'RE FIRED!

In-Reply-To:  <199507180013.RAA20482@netcom21.netcom.com>

 

I feel compelled to point out that this same individual _flooded_ another

listserv I subscribe to with similar self-promotions of this same

book--complete with quotes from "reviews."  I should also point out that

this was at least a human resources list where such a listing might be

appropriate (still shameless self-promotion) and he was quickly hounded

off the list.  He even posted a public apology before disappearing - what

a guy!

 

For this post to appear here suggests he is targeting random irrelevant

lists for maximum exposure.  He probably knows his message won't last

long.  I think this clown richly deserves any appropriate response his ad

might bring his way.  Since he gave us his 800 # I have to assume he wants

to hear from us.

 

 

On Mon, 17 Jul 1995, Levi Asher wrote:

 

> > Cybernetix Inc.

> > 14817 N. Jennifer Ct.

> > Mead, WA 99021

> > (800) 517-4268

> > FAX: (509) 467-9573

> > Ownership@aol.com

>

>

> I believe it's proper internet etiquette to harass this sorry-ass

> dude by phone, e-mail, and any other methods that come to mind.  LET'S

> GET HIM!!!  A 1-800-number ... Wow ...

>

> Anyway, why does he think people who read Beat literature have employment

> problems?  Maybe he thinks we're a bunch of bongo-playing beatniks here.

>

> Also, besides the fact that this is a spam ... his book sounds extremely

> lame.

>

> -----------------------------------------------------------------

>                 Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com

>

>   Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html

>                  (the beat literature web site)

>

>     Queensboro Ballads: http://levity.willow.com/brooklyn/

>                   (my fantasy folk-rock album)

>

>                     * * * * * * * * * * * * *

> 150 years ago this month, Thoreau built a house near Walden Pond:

>          "So I went on for some days cutting and hewing

>           timber, and also studs and rafters, all with

>           my narrow axe, not having many communicable

>           or scholar-like thoughts, singing to myself -- "

> -----------------------------------------------------------------

>

 

______________

Regards,

Kevin M. Kelly

 

Office of Human Resources            Voice: 703.993.2600

George Mason University              Fax:   703.993.2601

Fairfax, VA 22030-4444               kkelly3@osf1.gmu.edu

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Jul 1995 21:34:28 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "Kevin P. Freeman" <kpfst2@POP.PITT.EDU>

Subject:      On the Road

 

Does anyone have an update on the possibility of a feature film of On the Road?

------

kpfst2@pop.pitt.edu

http://www.pitt.edu/~kpfst2

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Jul 1995 21:53:06 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Joe Reifer <jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: On the Road

In-Reply-To:  <199507180134.VAA26732@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu>

 

Francis Ford Copolla was apparently working on this project - there were

casting difficulties amongst other things and the project has been

delayed. Hold on to yr hats, kids, because one article I read said they

were considering Jim "the mask" carrey for the part of burroughs. Other

names mentioned included yr typical hollywood gen-x stars. Scary stuff!

 

There are 2 documentaries on Kerouac (at least two) - one has cheesy

reenactments of the beat era, the other doesn't. Guess which one I like

better. Ha ha ha.

 

Furthur, there is that really great Ginsberg documentary from 93 and

something called "the burroughs movie" (?) - a real good documentary and

someone stole my copy and if anyone knows where to get one (preferably

for cheap, dad...) i would be forever indebted, and that's a long time.

 

 

 

Here's the question that spawned this post:

> Does anyone have an update on the possibility of a feature film of On

 the Road?

 

 

and don't you know that god is pooh-bear? - j. kerouac

 

joe

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Jul 1995 02:07:10 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Nicholas Molise <OttoMadX@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: On the Road

 

Speaking of goof-ball Hollywood money grabber headlines, I wouldn't be

surprised if Johnny Depp were in the On the Road movie.  After all with,

Francis Ford Copolla directing and the two of them being pals after Copolla

produced the Don Juan DiMarco film.  Also Depp is a well-known beat fan.  He

paid some $5000 at an auction for an old overcoat belonging to Kerouac and

lists it as his most prized possesion.  He also interviewed Ginberg for an

issue of Interview.

 

What about the cast from Naked Lunch?  Ive heard from several people that the

actors playing walk-on roles supposed to be Ginsberg and Kerouac did an

excellent job and that they would like to see them play the parts.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Jul 1995 08:26:14 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Fred Bogin <FDBBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Organization: Brooklyn College Library

Subject:      Ownership

 

What the guy did was definitely not right. Let's flood his 800 number

with crank calls. Write it on every lavatory door, if necessary. But let's

not tie up this list with more comments about it. We deliberately don't

screen postings, to allow the fullest interchange of ideas, and as a

consequence this kind of thing can happen. 'nuff said.

 

Fred Bogin

Beat-L co-owner

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Jul 1995 09:22:28 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>

Subject:      Re: YOU'RE FIRED!

In-Reply-To:  <950717181549_116873402@aol.com> from "OWNERSHIP@AOL.COM" at Jul

              17, 95 06:15:52 pm

 

> 1.  Take control of your future with Ownership

let go of trying to control, man...

 

> 2.  Ownership is a vocabulary for success.

if domination is your idea of being successful as a human being.

 

> 3.  Ownership is a problem solving tool.

things always have a way of working out if you let it be

 

> 4.  Ownership exercises your brain.

independent thought is the only exercise i practice...trying to control

what other people think is an exercise in futility...self-help books are

only good for the person who wrote it.

 

> 5.  Adjust your attitude for better performance.

in other words, be what other people want you to be.

 

> 6.  Ownership starts with common sense.

 

What is it with this ownership, possession jazz..  this control freak is

really annoying...  sometimes literacy is wasted on the mindless.

 

forget this...i'm gone.

 

"...and nobody, nobody knows what's going to happen to anybody besides

the forlorn rags of growing old..."  Sal Paradise

 

peace.

pooh

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Jul 1995 08:46:16 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Elsie Pettit <pettit@UX1.CSO.UIUC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: YOU'RE FIRED!

In-Reply-To:  <199507180013.RAA20482@netcom21.netcom.com>

 

On Mon, 17 Jul 1995, Levi Asher wrote:

 

> > Cybernetix Inc.

> > 14817 N. Jennifer Ct.

> > Mead, WA 99021

> > (800) 517-4268

> > FAX: (509) 467-9573

> > Ownership@aol.com

>

>

> I believe it's proper internet etiquette to harass this sorry-ass

> dude by phone, e-mail, and any other methods that come to mind.  LET'S

> GET HIM!!!  A 1-800-number ... Wow ...

>

  Ditto!  I just decided to ignore this bit of crass commercialism.

 

Beat-L, indeed!

 

 

> Anyway, why does he think people who read Beat literature have employment

> problems?  Maybe he thinks we're a bunch of bongo-playing beatniks here.

>

  Ha!  My thoughts *exactly* when I read it.

 

(Have you called him yet, Levi?)

 

 

Elsie Pettit

 

 

 

> Also, besides the fact that this is a spam ... his book sounds extremely

> lame.

>

> -----------------------------------------------------------------

>                 Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com

>

>   Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html

>                  (the beat literature web site)

>

>     Queensboro Ballads: http://levity.willow.com/brooklyn/

>                   (my fantasy folk-rock album)

>

>                     * * * * * * * * * * * * *

> 150 years ago this month, Thoreau built a house near Walden Pond:

>          "So I went on for some days cutting and hewing

>           timber, and also studs and rafters, all with

>           my narrow axe, not having many communicable

>           or scholar-like thoughts, singing to myself -- "

> -----------------------------------------------------------------

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Jul 1995 09:24:31 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Joe Reifer <jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: On the Road

In-Reply-To:  <950718020710_117207075@aol.com>

 

> What about the cast from Naked Lunch?  Ive heard from several people that the

> actors playing walk-on roles supposed to be Ginsberg and Kerouac did an

> excellent job and that they would like to see them play the parts.

 

I thought the portrayals of Jack and Al in "Naked Lunch" were horribly

goofy - not goofy in a sublime beat way - just plain offensive.

Shoulda left it out - at least they didn't try to portray Gysin - sheesh.

 

joe

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Jul 1995 09:46:19 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: On the Road

 

I think Jim Carrey would be a good Bull Lee.  That is the only potential

casting that I have heard that sounds decent.

 

Who could play Joan Burroughs character?

 

She was always raking the lizards off the tree.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Jul 1995 10:44:23 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Michael Bertsch <mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>

Subject:      Re: On the Road

In-Reply-To:  <199507181646.JAA26430@hsc.usc.edu>

 

On Tue, 18 Jul 1995, Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:

 

> I think Jim Carrey would be a good Bull Lee.  That is the only potential

> casting that I have heard that sounds decent.

>

> Who could play Joan Burroughs character?

>

> She was always raking the lizards off the tree.

>

I'd say they should get a real ditzy actress, one numb enough to stand in

front of a toasted pistol-toting Bill.

 

Michael Bertsch

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:10:27 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Nick Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: On the Road

 

So it has to be Nicole Kidman then, repeating her triumphant performance in

Batman Forever - shades of Dr Sax (now that would be a movie - who would

play Dr Sax himself??)

 

Nick W-W

 

>>

>I'd say they should get a real ditzy actress, one numb enough to stand in

>front of a toasted pistol-toting Bill.

>

>Michael Bertsch

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Jul 1995 21:34:28 +0300

Reply-To:     jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Joseph Rodrigue <jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM>

Subject:      Re: On the Road

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.HPP.3.91.950718104321.4065C-100000@steroid.ecst.csuchico.edu> (message from Michael Bertsch on Tue,

              18 Jul 1995 10:44:23 -0700)

 

From: Michael Bertsch <mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>

> On Tue, 18 Jul 1995, Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:

 

>> Who could play Joan Burroughs' character?

 

> I'd say they should get a real ditzy actress, one numb enough to stand in

> front of a toasted pistol-toting Bill.

 

joan burroughs was not ditzy.

 

do you know anything at all about the burroughses?

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Jul 1995 15:40:35 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: On the Road

In-Reply-To:  Message of Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:10:27 -0500 from <nweir-w@NWU.EDU>

 

On Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:10:27 -0500 Nick Weir-Williams said:

>So it has to be Nicole Kidman then, repeating her triumphant performance in

>Batman Forever - shades of Dr Sax (now that would be a movie - who would

>play Dr Sax himself??)

>

>Nick W-W

>

>>>

>>I'd say they should get a real ditzy actress, one numb enough to stand in

>>front of a toasted pistol-toting Bill.

>>

>>Michael Bertsch

>>

>>

I'd like to see Jack Nicolson play Sax.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:02:07 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>

Subject:      Re: YOU'RE FIRED!

In-Reply-To:  <199507181322.JAA09505@imageek.york.cuny.edu> from "Kristen

              VanRiper" at Jul 18, 95 09:22:28 am

 

>

> forget this...i'm gone.

>

 

Me too!  Cool response.

 

> peace.

> pooh

 

Hey wait a minute -- I thought God was pooh bear.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------

                Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com

 

  Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html

                 (the beat literature web site)

 

    Queensboro Ballads: http://levity.willow.com/brooklyn/

                  (my fantasy folk-rock album)

 

                    * * * * * * * * * * * * *

150 years ago this month, Thoreau built a house near Walden Pond:

         "So I went on for some days cutting and hewing

          timber, and also studs and rafters, all with

          my narrow axe, not having many communicable

          or scholar-like thoughts, singing to myself -- "

-----------------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Jul 1995 18:11:39 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Katerie Prior <kadaca@UMICH.EDU>

Subject:      Re: On the Road

In-Reply-To:  Your message <950718020710_117207075@aol.com> of Tue, 18 Jul 1995

              02:07:10 -0400

 

On Tue, 18 Jul 1995 02:07:10 -0400,  Nicholas Molise <OttoMadX@AOL.COM>

wrote;

 

*Speaking of goof-ball Hollywood money grabber headlines, I wouldn't be

*surprised if Johnny Depp were in the On the Road movie.  After all

with,

*Francis Ford Copolla directing and the two of them being pals after

Copolla

*produced the Don Juan DiMarco film.  Also Depp is a well-known beat

fan.  He

*paid some $5000 at an auction for an old overcoat belonging to Kerouac

and

*lists it as his most prized possesion.  He also interviewed Ginberg for

an

*issue of Interview.

 

*What about the cast from Naked Lunch?  Ive heard from several people

that the

*actors playing walk-on roles supposed to be Ginsberg and Kerouac did

an

*excellent job and that they would like to see them play the parts.

 

But they seemed really old to be playing Ginsberg and Kerouac.

Kerouac's character was supposed to young, and the guy playing him in NL

had wrinkles galore.

 

Kate

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Jul 1995 17:46:48 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Michael Bertsch <mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>

Subject:      Re: On the Road

In-Reply-To:  <BEAT-L%95071815422886@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

 

Nicholson *would* make a great Sax!  Thanks, Bill Gargan!

 

Michael Bertsch

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Jul 1995 14:15:22 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>

Subject:      Re: YOU'RE FIRED!

In-Reply-To:  <199507182002.NAA18394@netcom.netcom.com> from "Levi Asher" at

              Jul 18, 95 01:02:07 pm

 

> Hey wait a minute -- I thought God was pooh bear.

 

levi, i was floored when i read that....neal cassidy and i were riding on

the same plane at that moment... i was truly moved by the last quarter of

_on the road_, it was the kerouac that has moved me before. all this talk

on the list about a movie doesn't do it for me.  haven't gotten to the

bookstore yet, but i thought i'd pick up _the dharma bums_  someone in

this list said jack and neal were portrayed as goofy in _the naked

lunch_...haven't seen it, but it's the reason i'm not into movies...some

overpaid actor with no connection whatsoever will probably ruin it for

me.

 

take it easy.

pooh

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Jul 1995 15:28:09 CST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         EVANSBRI@ESUVM.BITNET

Subject:      Re: YOU'RE FIRED!

In-Reply-To:  Message of Wed, 19 Jul 1995 14:15:22 -0500 from

              <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>

 

I can't imagine any filmmaker or actors being able to do justice to On The Road

 or any of Kerouac's books.  Im not sure ifI'd even want to see the movie-only

 end up being disappointed.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Jul 1995 13:37:32 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Joe Reifer <jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>

Subject:      dharma bum biblio

In-Reply-To:  <199507191815.OAA02103@imageek.york.cuny.edu>

 

>... bookstore yet, but i thought i'd pick up _the dharma bums_  someone in

 

 

yes! do that!

 

for fans of dharma bums that would like to explore a little dharma - jack

picked up one of his first big books on buddhism at the san jose public

library - mere blocks away from my lil hut:

 

A Buddhist Bible - edited by Dwight Goddard. Boston: Beacon Press, 1994.

 

Two other excellent books are:

 

The Zen Teaching of Huang Po - translated by John Blofeld - Boston:

Shambala (Pocket Edition $6), 1994.

 

Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind - by Shunryu Suzuki. New York: Weatherhill,  1993.

 

 

It is quite interesting to note Kerouac's return from the Buddha lands to

his Catholic heritage in his later works - most notably revelations on

his travels to find his French-Canadian ancestors.

 

 

joe

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Jul 1995 15:28:28 PDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re Dharma Bums Biblio

 

>>... bookstore yet, but i thought i'd pick up _the dharma bums_  someone in

 

 

>>yes! do that!

 

>>for fans of dharma bums that would like to explore a little dharma - jack

>>picked up one of his first big books on buddhism at the san jose public

>>library - mere blocks away from my lil hut:

 

>>A Buddhist Bible - edited by Dwight Goddard. Boston: Beacon Press, 1994.

 

>>Two other excellent books are:

 

>>The Zen Teaching of Huang Po - translated by John Blofeld - Boston:

>>Shambala (Pocket Edition $6), 1994.

 

>>Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind - by Shunryu Suzuki. New York: Weatherhill,  1993.

 

 

>>It is quite interesting to note Kerouac's return from the Buddha lands to

>>his Catholic heritage in his later works - most notably revelations on

>>his travels to find his French-Canadian ancestors.

 

 

>>joe

 

A while ago I posted a note about how Tom Clark's biography related that Kerouac

 complained that the editor removed all the catholic parts from the Dharma Bums.

  So maybe he never really left Catholic land for Buddha lands.  I think the

 Catholicism was always there.  Books like Visions of Gerard, Tristessa and

 Mexico city Blues I think are good unedited examples of his  use of Catholicism

 and Buddhism together.  Remember how often he uses the term the Lamb or Lamby

 Jesus.  And he mentions saints a lot.

 

Other Zen books to look at would be Zen Flesh, Zen Bones.  This I would

 reccommend over any others.  Others are anything by DT Suzuki (whom was visited

 by kerouac and others in the fifties) and Philip Kapleau.

 

And his biographers recount how Kerouac read and studied the Bible throughout

 his life.  So read that too.

 

The Zen books I mentioned are just that, Zen.  Kerouac wasn't Zen buddhist as

 was Snyder.  I don't know much about it, but I think he studied Chinese

 buddhism more.  Maybe someone can talk about that who knows more.

 

Nowadays it seems people in the US are interestd in tibetan Buddhsim.

 

And so, when is Kerouac's Life of Buddha coming out.  (This was anthologized in

 Tricycle).  Supposed to be out this year.

 

Tim

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Jul 1995 18:39:34 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Terence Ritchie <tritchie@SOS.WINGHAM.COM>

Subject:      Garver?

 

William Garver, a.k.a. Bull Gaines, Gains, Gahr-va, and affectionately

known to his friends as "Old Honeyboy Bill" (Desolation Angels).

I 1st heard his voice in Mexico City Blues & again in Desolation Angels

and he is without doubt one of the more vivid characters I've come

across in a literary while. Any more connections & info about this

gentleman would be appreciated greatly or is nothing much more known?

 

 As far as movies & Kerouac, "Joan Rawshanks in the Fog" (Vision of

Cody), one of Jack's more expansive rifts, springs to the mind and if

one of his old coats goes for 5 gees then what's a 1st ed. (signed

even) for The Road go for these days? Must be millions, no?

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Jul 1995 19:52:32 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Win Mattingly <GMATT1@UKCC.UKY.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio

In-Reply-To:  Message of Wed, 19 Jul 1995 15:28:28 PDT from

              <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

 

On Wed, 19 Jul 1995 15:28:28 PDT Timothy K. Gallaher said:

>>>for fans of dharma bums that would like to explore a little dharma - jack

>>>picked up one of his first big books on buddhism at the san jose public

>>>library - mere blocks away from my lil hut:

>

>>>A Buddhist Bible - edited by Dwight Goddard. Boston: Beacon Press, 1994.

>

>>>Two other excellent books are:

>

>>>The Zen Teaching of Huang Po - translated by John Blofeld - Boston:

>>>Shambala (Pocket Edition $6), 1994.

>

>>>Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind - by Shunryu Suzuki. New York: Weatherhill,  1993.

>

>Other Zen books to look at would be Zen Flesh, Zen Bones.  This I would

> reccommend over any others.  Others are anything by DT Suzuki (whom was

>visited

> by kerouac and others in the fifties) and Philip Kapleau.

 

I would recommend two books: The Empty Mirror and A Glimpse Of Nothingness,

both by Janwillem Van DeWetering.  He left his native Holland dissatisfied with

capitalism and the middle class life to enter a Japanese Zen monastery knowing

no Japanese and with only the clothes on his back, which he describes in the

first book.  He later spent several years in an American Zen monastery in

Washington state, which he describes in the second book.  Both provide real-

istic and readable accounts of zen life and touch on the "zen lunatic" concept

that so fascinated Kerouac (the Japanese monk in charge of the American mon-

astery likes to get drunk on whiskey and watch cowboy movies).

                                                                Win

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Jul 1995 19:27:25 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Joe Reifer <jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio

In-Reply-To:  <CMM.0.90.2.806192908.gallaher@hsc.usc.edu>

 

Rep's book is interesting, as is DT Suzuki from a historical context -

unfortuneately these works don't have anything to do with zen practice -

merely philosophy (mostly Rinzai). Kapleau on the other hand incorporates

theory and practice - _the three pillars of zen_ especially.

 

the aforementioned Godard collection was studied inside and out by

Kerouac who, according to Ginsberg, was really turned on and influenced

by this large work containing japanese zen, chinese (ch'an), tibetan, and

other works.

 

yes tim - i do think that there were brilliant synchronizations of

catholicism and buddhism in kerouac's work, and the more I study

Buddhism, the more I see it everywhere in his books (as I'm sure you see

the biblical side). 8)

 

joe

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Jul 1995 19:29:50 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Joe Reifer <jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio

In-Reply-To:  <BEAT-L%95071920073292@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

 

Welp, i guess i started a "recommend your favorite zen book" string of

posts - sheesh. sorry about that.

 

joe

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Jul 1995 20:05:10 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Michael Bertsch <mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.SOL.3.91.950719192859.15225B-100000@wahoo.sjsu.edu>

 

Reading a book to learn Zen is like swatting a fly to learn how to cook

hamburgers.

 

Michael Bertsch

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:22:09 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Josephine Thomson <Josephine=Thomson%OAE%AVN@SMTPGATE.DOTC.GOV.AU>

Subject:      Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio

 

Michael Bertsch <mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU> Wrote:

|

|

| Reading a book to learn Zen is like swatting a fly to learn how to cook

| hamburgers.

 

I think I hear the sound of one hand clapping.

 

-josephine-

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Jul 1995 21:15:25 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio

 

>Rep's book is interesting, as is DT Suzuki from a historical context -

>unfortuneately these works don't have anything to do with zen practice -

>merely philosophy (mostly Rinzai). Kapleau on the other hand incorporates

>theory and practice - _the three pillars of zen_ especially.

>

>the aforementioned Godard collection was studied inside and out by

>Kerouac who, according to Ginsberg, was really turned on and influenced

>by this large work containing japanese zen, chinese (ch'an), tibetan, and

>other works.

>

>yes tim - i do think that there were brilliant synchronizations of

>catholicism and buddhism in kerouac's work, and the more I study

>Buddhism, the more I see it everywhere in his books (as I'm sure you see

>the biblical side). 8)

>

>joe

 

 

I think his catholicism gets short shrifted or downplayed or is considered

a negative influence by many.  I don't think Kerouac would appreciate or

agree with these observations though.  BTW I'm not Catholic.  A few years

ago my friend was looking for a present for his sister for her birthday.

His family is catholic and his sister is pretty religious, Catholic

intellectual.  She worked with the Mother Teresa organization for a year,

taught at catholic schools (maybe still does).  I reccommended that he give

her Visions of Gerard with some trepidation.  But later I found out she

thought it was the best book she'd ever read.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Jul 1995 21:17:02 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio

 

>Reading a book to learn Zen is like swatting a fly to learn how to cook

>hamburgers.

>

>Michael Bertsch

 

 

Best hamburg in LA is In and Out.  Burger King is the best of the fast

fooders.  I never had a Whitecastle hamburger.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Jul 1995 01:07:58 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Nicholas Molise <OttoMadX@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Garver?

 

>one of his old coats goes for 5 gees then what's a 1st ed. (signed

>even) for The Road go for these days? Must be millions, no?

 

Actually you get a 1st of On the Road for about $800.  A good place for this

and many other beat rarities is the Beat Book Shop in Boulder, CO.  They also

have signed editions of every Bukowski.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:53:59 +0300

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         T P Uschanov <uschanov@CC.JOENSUU.FI>

Subject:      On the Road movie

In-Reply-To:  <01HT31W7GLXE000B3J@FIPORT.BITNET>

 

EVANSBRI@ESUVM.BITNET wrote:

 

>I can't imagine any filmmaker or actors being able to do justice to On The Road

>or any of Kerouac's books.  Im not sure ifI'd even want to see the movie-only

>end up being disappointed.

 

I think the late Richard Brooks could have done a quite pleasant job on

On the Road. What do others here think?

 

T P Uschanov

uschanov@cc.joensuu.fi

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Jul 1995 08:55:58 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>

Subject:      Re: YOU'RE FIRED!

In-Reply-To:  <BEAT-L%95071916325760@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> from

              "EVANSBRI%ESUVM.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU" at Jul 19, 95 03:28:09 pm

 

> I can't imagine any filmmaker or actors being able to do justice to On The

 Road

>  or any of Kerouac's books.  Im not sure ifI'd even want to see the movie-only

>  end up being disappointed.

 

 

yeah, i agree.  the way i see it, if you want to know it, you've got to

experience it for yourself.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Jul 1995 09:03:27 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.HPP.3.91.950719200400.26131A-100000@hairball.ecst.csuchico.edu> from "Michael Bertsch" at Jul 19,

              95 08:05:10 pm

 

> Reading a book to learn Zen is like swatting a fly to learn how to cook

> hamburgers.

> Michael Bertsch

 

you know, i've picked up a few zen related books, and i've always found

that a "zen teacher" is an oxymoron..i mean, enlightenment cannot be

taught..it's is up to the individual...isn't there a story about a

student who surpasses his teacher by realizing this? (sort of remember

this in zen flesh zen bones, but it's been a while)

 

not that it matters.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Jul 1995 09:29:26 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         THE WORLD IS ITS OWN MAGIC <952GRINNELL@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio

 

i think it might be too easy to divide kerouac's religious interests

along the lines of buddhism on one side and catholicism on the other side.

in their purest forms, both philosophies or 'roadmaps to life,' are

after the same thing.  (let's just leave organized religion outside

this entire discussion)  but both catholicism (and i was raised catholic,

so i know of which i speak <g>) and buddhism (and i, too, now study

buddhism) are expedients means to realize the inherent god (buddha/

bodhisattva) nature in man.  the bible may employ different terms,

but the life of jesus is the life of a bodhisattva.

claudia

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Jul 1995 08:38:58 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Joe Reifer <jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.HPP.3.91.950719200400.26131A-100000@hairball.ecst.csuchico.edu>

 

> Reading a book to learn Zen is like swatting a fly to learn how to cook

> hamburgers.

> Michael Bertsch

 

 

ahhh...but you should probably put the fly outside instead of swatting

it...and then have a soyburger...(and then read a book on zen for food

for yr brain....and then go sit....).

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Jul 1995 09:38:44 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio

 

>i think it might be too easy to divide kerouac's religious interests

>along the lines of buddhism on one side and catholicism on the other side.

>in their purest forms, both philosophies or 'roadmaps to life,' are

>after the same thing.  (let's just leave organized religion outside

>this entire discussion)  but both catholicism (and i was raised catholic,

>so i know of which i speak <g>) and buddhism (and i, too, now study

>buddhism) are expedients means to realize the inherent god (buddha/

>bodhisattva) nature in man.  the bible may employ different terms,

>but the life of jesus is the life of a bodhisattva.

>claudia

 

 

I think this is well put.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 21 Jul 1995 12:37:17 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Josephine Thomson <Josephine=Thomson%OAE%AVN@SMTPGATE.DOTC.GOV.AU>

Subject:      beats and the femmes

 

Hi everyone,

 

I've just joined the list and it's been an amazing education so far.  At the

end of June Kristen asked about how other women feel about Kerouac - here's my



back