* album
where he sings Blake poems accompanying himself on harmonium,
plus
guest artists like Don Cherry, Elvin Jones, Peter Orlovsky
if this
doesn't prompt others to remember better than me, I'll look in
my
music collection this weekend(!)
- Greeley
not Creeley
----------
From:
Joe Reifer
<jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>
To:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:
broken bones
Date:
Friday, July 14, 1995 1:30PM
There's
a song that Al Ginsberg sings in the recent documentary about him
that
goes..."broken bones, broken bones...etc."
Does
anyone know if a recording of this is available?
It
doesn't seem to be on the box set, but maybe it is?
A
posting of available recordings would be great.
tanks,
joe
jreifer@wahoo.sjsu.edu
http://gallery.sjsu.edu/ArtH/Tibet/main.html
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 16:25:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Shana Skaletsky
<isis@MARS.MCS.COM>
Subject: Re: broken bones
In-Reply-To:
<9507161213.AA22666@netmail2.microsoft.com>
On Fri,
14 Jul 1995, Bruce Greeley wrote:
> I
haven't heard Ginsberg's boxed set but believe it has different
>
material than one earlier record he put out with a bunch of 'downtown,
>
skronking jazzbos and avant-rockers' -- where the recording you're
>
talking about may have come from -- unfortunately, I don't remember the
>
title to this ("The Lion is Roaring" maybe?) which is at home.
>
Other recordings which Ginsberg has been on:
> *
song with "The Clash" (?title?)
>
> if
this doesn't prompt others to remember better than me, I'll look in
> my
music collection this weekend(!)
>
> -
Greeley not Creeley
>
----------
I
believe that the song Allen Ginsberg recorded with The Clash is called
"Ghetto
Defendant", and can be found on The Clash album "Combat Rock",
recorded
@1980. While we're on the topic, I was wondering if anyone knew
anything
about a rumour I heard-it involved Allen and the rock band U2
recording
something together. can anyone confirm or deny this for me?
-Shana
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 17:46:50 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Matthew C. Curcio"
<curcio@BIOC02.UTHSCSA.EDU>
Subject: LynxOfTheWeek71495
Hey
Guys abd Girls,
Thought
some of you would like to cruise the web sites of distinction and
this
might be one you will like.
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/People/JackKerouac.html
Have
Fun
Matt
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 18:15:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: OWNERSHIP@AOL.COM
Subject: YOU'RE FIRED!
Soft-pedal
it all you want by calling it a "reduction in force",
"downsizing",
whatever. The fact is, you have heard
these words, or will at
some
point in the near future unless you take Ownership of your talents and
skills.
The
workplace is changing faster than ever before in the history of mankind.
In order to fit in, you, I and everyone who
works needs to become an expert
is what
we do and find a way to partner with a company so we can both
succeed.
I've
been in your shoes and have Coached a lot of people through the process
of
identifying where they fit into the future workplace. Last fall, I put my
thoughts
into a book entitled, The Unchained Worker.
Here is
an overview of The Unchained Worker - Principles of Ownership in the
Workplace,
and what people are saying about it.
Ownership
inspires and motivates us to take action, to protect and improve
what's
ours. We own our talents, experience
and capabilities. When we put
them in
partnership with a company, the future is ours to make........
What is
Ownership? It's a new perspective for
all of us to use when dealing
with
our jobs. Ownership is a mind-set, an
attitude that forces you to look
no
further than yourself to secure your future in the workplace. It's the
catalyst
for superior individual performance within companies. It provides a
common
vocabulary for workers to excel as individuals. Ownership motivates
people
to develop their talents and bolster individual performance. It puts
success
in their hands..........
Table
of Contents.
1. Take control of your future with Ownership
2. Ownership is a vocabulary for success.
3. Ownership is a problem solving tool.
4. Ownership exercises your brain.
5. Adjust your attitude for better performance.
6. Ownership starts with common sense.
7. Ownership is the workplace of the future.
8. Get work done more efficiently with
Ownership
9. How Mis-applied responsibility holds you
back.
10.
Ownership in Action.
11. The
principles that will guide your success.
12.
Ownership is an Adventure
13.
Ownership unleashes your performance.
The
intended audience is everyone who works.
There are 142 pages with plenty
of
graphics and illustrations. It's about
a 2 hour read total.
Here's
what people are saying about The Unchained Worker: I've always
believed
in the individual's desire to succeed.
Creating the right
environment
is the key. Ownership will work in any
organization, Great stuff
-
Dennis Erickson, Head Coach Seattle Seahawks.
Inspirational! Fantastic!
What a
wonderful book. It made me think about
things I've never considered.
Thanks.
- Staci Clevenger, Assembly line worker.
I want
to wish you the very best of luck in your careers.
Jeffrey
C. Petkevicius
Cybernetix
Inc.
14817
N. Jennifer Ct.
Mead,
WA 99021
(800)
517-4268
FAX:
(509) 467-9573
Ownership@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:13:00 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher
<brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: YOU'RE FIRED!
In-Reply-To: <950717181549_116873402@aol.com> from
"OWNERSHIP@AOL.COM" at Jul
17, 95 06:15:52 pm
>
Cybernetix Inc.
>
14817 N. Jennifer Ct.
>
Mead, WA 99021
>
(800) 517-4268
>
FAX: (509) 467-9573
>
Ownership@aol.com
I
believe it's proper internet etiquette to harass this sorry-ass
dude by
phone, e-mail, and any other methods that come to mind. LET'S
GET
HIM!!! A 1-800-number ... Wow ...
Anyway,
why does he think people who read Beat literature have employment
problems? Maybe he thinks we're a bunch of
bongo-playing beatniks here.
Also,
besides the fact that this is a spam ... his book sounds extremely
lame.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://levity.willow.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
150
years ago this month, Thoreau built a house near Walden Pond:
"So I went on for some days
cutting and hewing
timber, and also studs and rafters,
all with
my narrow axe, not having many
communicable
or scholar-like thoughts, singing to
myself -- "
-----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:29:37 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joe Reifer
<jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: YOU'RE FIRED!
In-Reply-To: <950717181549_116873402@aol.com>
Uh, I thought
this was supposed to be stuff about beat authors - not
about
the politics of having a job in the world today (although a
correlation
would have been nice and made that post - not reposted here
for
sake of space - relevant).
joe
things
are symbols of themselves - a. ginsberg
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 21:24:25 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "KEVIN M. KELLY"
<kkelly3@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: YOU'RE FIRED!
In-Reply-To:
<199507180013.RAA20482@netcom21.netcom.com>
I feel
compelled to point out that this same individual _flooded_ another
listserv
I subscribe to with similar self-promotions of this same
book--complete
with quotes from "reviews." I
should also point out that
this
was at least a human resources list where such a listing might be
appropriate
(still shameless self-promotion) and he was quickly hounded
off the
list. He even posted a public apology
before disappearing - what
a guy!
For
this post to appear here suggests he is targeting random irrelevant
lists
for maximum exposure. He probably knows
his message won't last
long. I think this clown richly deserves any
appropriate response his ad
might
bring his way. Since he gave us his 800
# I have to assume he wants
to hear
from us.
On Mon,
17 Jul 1995, Levi Asher wrote:
>
> Cybernetix Inc.
>
> 14817 N. Jennifer Ct.
>
> Mead, WA 99021
>
> (800) 517-4268
>
> FAX: (509) 467-9573
>
> Ownership@aol.com
>
>
> I
believe it's proper internet etiquette to harass this sorry-ass
>
dude by phone, e-mail, and any other methods that come to mind. LET'S
>
GET HIM!!! A 1-800-number ... Wow ...
>
>
Anyway, why does he think people who read Beat literature have employment
>
problems? Maybe he thinks we're a bunch
of bongo-playing beatniks here.
>
>
Also, besides the fact that this is a spam ... his book sounds extremely
>
lame.
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
> Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
>
> Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
> (the beat literature web
site)
>
> Queensboro Ballads:
http://levity.willow.com/brooklyn/
> (my fantasy folk-rock
album)
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>
150 years ago this month, Thoreau built a house near Walden Pond:
> "So I went on for some days cutting and hewing
> timber, and also studs and rafters,
all with
> my narrow axe, not having many
communicable
> or scholar-like thoughts, singing
to myself -- "
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
>
______________
Regards,
Kevin
M. Kelly
Office
of Human Resources Voice:
703.993.2600
George
Mason University Fax: 703.993.2601
Fairfax,
VA 22030-4444 kkelly3@osf1.gmu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 21:34:28 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Kevin P. Freeman"
<kpfst2@POP.PITT.EDU>
Subject: On the Road
Does
anyone have an update on the possibility of a feature film of On the Road?
------
kpfst2@pop.pitt.edu
http://www.pitt.edu/~kpfst2
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 21:53:06 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joe Reifer <jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: On the Road
In-Reply-To:
<199507180134.VAA26732@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu>
Francis
Ford Copolla was apparently working on this project - there were
casting
difficulties amongst other things and the project has been
delayed.
Hold on to yr hats, kids, because one article I read said they
were
considering Jim "the mask" carrey for the part of burroughs. Other
names
mentioned included yr typical hollywood gen-x stars. Scary stuff!
There
are 2 documentaries on Kerouac (at least two) - one has cheesy
reenactments
of the beat era, the other doesn't. Guess which one I like
better.
Ha ha ha.
Furthur,
there is that really great Ginsberg documentary from 93 and
something
called "the burroughs movie" (?) - a real good documentary and
someone
stole my copy and if anyone knows where to get one (preferably
for
cheap, dad...) i would be forever indebted, and that's a long time.
Here's
the question that spawned this post:
>
Does anyone have an update on the possibility of a feature film of On
the Road?
and
don't you know that god is pooh-bear? - j. kerouac
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 02:07:10 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nicholas Molise
<OttoMadX@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Road
Speaking
of goof-ball Hollywood money grabber headlines, I wouldn't be
surprised
if Johnny Depp were in the On the Road movie.
After all with,
Francis
Ford Copolla directing and the two of them being pals after Copolla
produced
the Don Juan DiMarco film. Also Depp is
a well-known beat fan. He
paid
some $5000 at an auction for an old overcoat belonging to Kerouac and
lists
it as his most prized possesion. He
also interviewed Ginberg for an
issue
of Interview.
What
about the cast from Naked Lunch? Ive
heard from several people that the
actors
playing walk-on roles supposed to be Ginsberg and Kerouac did an
excellent
job and that they would like to see them play the parts.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 08:26:14 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Fred Bogin
<FDBBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Organization:
Brooklyn College Library
Subject: Ownership
What
the guy did was definitely not right. Let's flood his 800 number
with
crank calls. Write it on every lavatory door, if necessary. But let's
not tie
up this list with more comments about it. We deliberately don't
screen
postings, to allow the fullest interchange of ideas, and as a
consequence
this kind of thing can happen. 'nuff said.
Fred
Bogin
Beat-L
co-owner
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 09:22:28 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: YOU'RE FIRED!
In-Reply-To: <950717181549_116873402@aol.com> from
"OWNERSHIP@AOL.COM" at Jul
17, 95 06:15:52 pm
>
1. Take control of your future with
Ownership
let go
of trying to control, man...
>
2. Ownership is a vocabulary for
success.
if
domination is your idea of being successful as a human being.
>
3. Ownership is a problem solving tool.
things
always have a way of working out if you let it be
>
4. Ownership exercises your brain.
independent
thought is the only exercise i practice...trying to control
what
other people think is an exercise in futility...self-help books are
only
good for the person who wrote it.
>
5. Adjust your attitude for better
performance.
in
other words, be what other people want you to be.
>
6. Ownership starts with common sense.
What is
it with this ownership, possession jazz..
this control freak is
really
annoying... sometimes literacy is
wasted on the mindless.
forget
this...i'm gone.
"...and
nobody, nobody knows what's going to happen to anybody besides
the
forlorn rags of growing old..."
Sal Paradise
peace.
pooh
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 08:46:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Elsie Pettit
<pettit@UX1.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: YOU'RE FIRED!
In-Reply-To:
<199507180013.RAA20482@netcom21.netcom.com>
On Mon,
17 Jul 1995, Levi Asher wrote:
>
> Cybernetix Inc.
>
> 14817 N. Jennifer Ct.
>
> Mead, WA 99021
>
> (800) 517-4268
>
> FAX: (509) 467-9573
>
> Ownership@aol.com
>
>
> I
believe it's proper internet etiquette to harass this sorry-ass
>
dude by phone, e-mail, and any other methods that come to mind. LET'S
>
GET HIM!!! A 1-800-number ... Wow ...
>
Ditto!
I just decided to ignore this bit of crass commercialism.
Beat-L,
indeed!
>
Anyway, why does he think people who read Beat literature have employment
>
problems? Maybe he thinks we're a bunch
of bongo-playing beatniks here.
>
Ha!
My thoughts *exactly* when I read it.
(Have
you called him yet, Levi?)
Elsie
Pettit
>
Also, besides the fact that this is a spam ... his book sounds extremely
>
lame.
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
> Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
>
> Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
> (the beat literature web
site)
>
> Queensboro Ballads:
http://levity.willow.com/brooklyn/
> (my fantasy folk-rock
album)
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>
150 years ago this month, Thoreau built a house near Walden Pond:
> "So I went on for some days
cutting and hewing
> timber, and also studs and rafters,
all with
> my narrow axe, not having many
communicable
> or scholar-like thoughts, singing
to myself -- "
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 09:24:31 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joe Reifer
<jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: On the Road
In-Reply-To: <950718020710_117207075@aol.com>
>
What about the cast from Naked Lunch?
Ive heard from several people that the
>
actors playing walk-on roles supposed to be Ginsberg and Kerouac did an
>
excellent job and that they would like to see them play the parts.
I
thought the portrayals of Jack and Al in "Naked Lunch" were horribly
goofy -
not goofy in a sublime beat way - just plain offensive.
Shoulda
left it out - at least they didn't try to portray Gysin - sheesh.
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 09:46:19 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: On the Road
I think
Jim Carrey would be a good Bull Lee.
That is the only potential
casting
that I have heard that sounds decent.
Who
could play Joan Burroughs character?
She was
always raking the lizards off the tree.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 10:44:23 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Bertsch
<mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
Subject: Re: On the Road
In-Reply-To: <199507181646.JAA26430@hsc.usc.edu>
On Tue,
18 Jul 1995, Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:
> I
think Jim Carrey would be a good Bull Lee.
That is the only potential
>
casting that I have heard that sounds decent.
>
>
Who could play Joan Burroughs character?
>
>
She was always raking the lizards off the tree.
>
I'd say
they should get a real ditzy actress, one numb enough to stand in
front
of a toasted pistol-toting Bill.
Michael
Bertsch
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:10:27 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: On the Road
So it
has to be Nicole Kidman then, repeating her triumphant performance in
Batman
Forever - shades of Dr Sax (now that would be a movie - who would
play Dr
Sax himself??)
Nick
W-W
>>
>I'd
say they should get a real ditzy actress, one numb enough to stand in
>front
of a toasted pistol-toting Bill.
>
>Michael
Bertsch
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 21:34:28 +0300
Reply-To: jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joseph Rodrigue
<jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Road
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.HPP.3.91.950718104321.4065C-100000@steroid.ecst.csuchico.edu>
(message from Michael Bertsch on Tue,
18 Jul 1995 10:44:23 -0700)
From:
Michael Bertsch <mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
> On
Tue, 18 Jul 1995, Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:
>>
Who could play Joan Burroughs' character?
>
I'd say they should get a real ditzy actress, one numb enough to stand in
>
front of a toasted pistol-toting Bill.
joan
burroughs was not ditzy.
do you
know anything at all about the burroughses?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 15:40:35 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: On the Road
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:10:27 -0500
from <nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
On Tue,
18 Jul 1995 13:10:27 -0500 Nick Weir-Williams said:
>So
it has to be Nicole Kidman then, repeating her triumphant performance in
>Batman
Forever - shades of Dr Sax (now that would be a movie - who would
>play
Dr Sax himself??)
>
>Nick
W-W
>
>>>
>>I'd
say they should get a real ditzy actress, one numb enough to stand in
>>front
of a toasted pistol-toting Bill.
>>
>>Michael
Bertsch
>>
>>
I'd like
to see Jack Nicolson play Sax.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:02:07 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher
<brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: YOU'RE FIRED!
In-Reply-To:
<199507181322.JAA09505@imageek.york.cuny.edu> from "Kristen
VanRiper" at Jul 18, 95
09:22:28 am
>
> forget
this...i'm gone.
>
Me
too! Cool response.
>
peace.
>
pooh
Hey
wait a minute -- I thought God was pooh bear.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://levity.willow.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
150
years ago this month, Thoreau built a house near Walden Pond:
"So I went on for some days
cutting and hewing
timber, and also studs and rafters,
all with
my narrow axe, not having many
communicable
or scholar-like thoughts, singing to
myself -- "
-----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 18:11:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Katerie Prior
<kadaca@UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: On the Road
In-Reply-To: Your message
<950718020710_117207075@aol.com> of Tue, 18 Jul 1995
02:07:10 -0400
On Tue,
18 Jul 1995 02:07:10 -0400, Nicholas
Molise <OttoMadX@AOL.COM>
wrote;
*Speaking
of goof-ball Hollywood money grabber headlines, I wouldn't be
*surprised
if Johnny Depp were in the On the Road movie.
After all
with,
*Francis
Ford Copolla directing and the two of them being pals after
Copolla
*produced
the Don Juan DiMarco film. Also Depp is
a well-known beat
fan. He
*paid
some $5000 at an auction for an old overcoat belonging to Kerouac
and
*lists
it as his most prized possesion. He
also interviewed Ginberg for
an
*issue
of Interview.
*What
about the cast from Naked Lunch? Ive
heard from several people
that
the
*actors
playing walk-on roles supposed to be Ginsberg and Kerouac did
an
*excellent
job and that they would like to see them play the parts.
But
they seemed really old to be playing Ginsberg and Kerouac.
Kerouac's
character was supposed to young, and the guy playing him in NL
had
wrinkles galore.
Kate
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Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 17:46:48 -0700
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From: Michael Bertsch
<mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
Subject: Re: On the Road
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%95071815422886@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Nicholson
*would* make a great Sax! Thanks, Bill
Gargan!
Michael
Bertsch
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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 14:15:22 -0500
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From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: YOU'RE FIRED!
In-Reply-To:
<199507182002.NAA18394@netcom.netcom.com> from "Levi
Asher" at
Jul 18, 95 01:02:07 pm
>
Hey wait a minute -- I thought God was pooh bear.
levi, i
was floored when i read that....neal cassidy and i were riding on
the
same plane at that moment... i was truly moved by the last quarter of
_on the
road_, it was the kerouac that has moved me before. all this talk
on the
list about a movie doesn't do it for me.
haven't gotten to the
bookstore
yet, but i thought i'd pick up _the dharma bums_ someone in
this
list said jack and neal were portrayed as goofy in _the naked
lunch_...haven't
seen it, but it's the reason i'm not into movies...some
overpaid
actor with no connection whatsoever will probably ruin it for
me.
take it
easy.
pooh
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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 15:28:09 CST
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From: EVANSBRI@ESUVM.BITNET
Subject: Re: YOU'RE FIRED!
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 19 Jul 1995 14:15:22 -0500
from
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
I can't
imagine any filmmaker or actors being able to do justice to On The Road
or any of Kerouac's books. Im not sure ifI'd even want to see the
movie-only
end up being disappointed.
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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 13:37:32 -0700
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From: Joe Reifer
<jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: dharma bum biblio
In-Reply-To:
<199507191815.OAA02103@imageek.york.cuny.edu>
>...
bookstore yet, but i thought i'd pick up _the dharma bums_ someone in
yes! do
that!
for
fans of dharma bums that would like to explore a little dharma - jack
picked
up one of his first big books on buddhism at the san jose public
library
- mere blocks away from my lil hut:
A
Buddhist Bible - edited by Dwight Goddard. Boston: Beacon Press, 1994.
Two
other excellent books are:
The Zen
Teaching of Huang Po - translated by John Blofeld - Boston:
Shambala
(Pocket Edition $6), 1994.
Zen
Mind, Beginner's Mind - by Shunryu Suzuki. New York: Weatherhill, 1993.
It is
quite interesting to note Kerouac's return from the Buddha lands to
his Catholic
heritage in his later works - most notably revelations on
his
travels to find his French-Canadian ancestors.
joe
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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 15:28:28 PDT
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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
>>...
bookstore yet, but i thought i'd pick up _the dharma bums_ someone in
>>yes!
do that!
>>for
fans of dharma bums that would like to explore a little dharma - jack
>>picked
up one of his first big books on buddhism at the san jose public
>>library
- mere blocks away from my lil hut:
>>A
Buddhist Bible - edited by Dwight Goddard. Boston: Beacon Press, 1994.
>>Two
other excellent books are:
>>The
Zen Teaching of Huang Po - translated by John Blofeld - Boston:
>>Shambala
(Pocket Edition $6), 1994.
>>Zen
Mind, Beginner's Mind - by Shunryu Suzuki. New York: Weatherhill, 1993.
>>It
is quite interesting to note Kerouac's return from the Buddha lands to
>>his
Catholic heritage in his later works - most notably revelations on
>>his
travels to find his French-Canadian ancestors.
>>joe
A while
ago I posted a note about how Tom Clark's biography related that Kerouac
complained that the editor removed all the
catholic parts from the Dharma Bums.
So maybe he never really left Catholic land
for Buddha lands. I think the
Catholicism was always there. Books like Visions of Gerard, Tristessa and
Mexico city Blues I think are good unedited
examples of his use of Catholicism
and Buddhism together. Remember how often he uses the term the Lamb
or Lamby
Jesus.
And he mentions saints a lot.
Other
Zen books to look at would be Zen Flesh, Zen Bones. This I would
reccommend over any others. Others are anything by DT Suzuki (whom was
visited
by kerouac and others in the fifties) and
Philip Kapleau.
And his
biographers recount how Kerouac read and studied the Bible throughout
his life.
So read that too.
The Zen
books I mentioned are just that, Zen.
Kerouac wasn't Zen buddhist as
was Snyder.
I don't know much about it, but I think he studied Chinese
buddhism more. Maybe someone can talk about that who knows more.
Nowadays
it seems people in the US are interestd in tibetan Buddhsim.
And so,
when is Kerouac's Life of Buddha coming out.
(This was anthologized in
Tricycle).
Supposed to be out this year.
Tim
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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 18:39:34 -0400
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From: Terence Ritchie
<tritchie@SOS.WINGHAM.COM>
Subject: Garver?
William
Garver, a.k.a. Bull Gaines, Gains, Gahr-va, and affectionately
known
to his friends as "Old Honeyboy Bill" (Desolation Angels).
I 1st
heard his voice in Mexico City Blues & again in Desolation Angels
and he
is without doubt one of the more vivid characters I've come
across
in a literary while. Any more connections & info about this
gentleman
would be appreciated greatly or is nothing much more known?
As far as movies & Kerouac, "Joan
Rawshanks in the Fog" (Vision of
Cody),
one of Jack's more expansive rifts, springs to the mind and if
one of
his old coats goes for 5 gees then what's a 1st ed. (signed
even)
for The Road go for these days? Must be millions, no?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 19:52:32 EDT
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From: Win Mattingly
<GMATT1@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 19 Jul 1995 15:28:28 PDT
from
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
On Wed,
19 Jul 1995 15:28:28 PDT Timothy K. Gallaher said:
>>>for
fans of dharma bums that would like to explore a little dharma - jack
>>>picked
up one of his first big books on buddhism at the san jose public
>>>library
- mere blocks away from my lil hut:
>
>>>A
Buddhist Bible - edited by Dwight Goddard. Boston: Beacon Press, 1994.
>
>>>Two
other excellent books are:
>
>>>The
Zen Teaching of Huang Po - translated by John Blofeld - Boston:
>>>Shambala
(Pocket Edition $6), 1994.
>
>>>Zen
Mind, Beginner's Mind - by Shunryu Suzuki. New York: Weatherhill, 1993.
>
>Other
Zen books to look at would be Zen Flesh, Zen Bones. This I would
>
reccommend over any others. Others are
anything by DT Suzuki (whom was
>visited
> by
kerouac and others in the fifties) and Philip Kapleau.
I would
recommend two books: The Empty Mirror and A Glimpse Of Nothingness,
both by
Janwillem Van DeWetering. He left his
native Holland dissatisfied with
capitalism
and the middle class life to enter a Japanese Zen monastery knowing
no
Japanese and with only the clothes on his back, which he describes in the
first
book. He later spent several years in
an American Zen monastery in
Washington
state, which he describes in the second book.
Both provide real-
istic
and readable accounts of zen life and touch on the "zen lunatic"
concept
that so
fascinated Kerouac (the Japanese monk in charge of the American mon-
astery
likes to get drunk on whiskey and watch cowboy movies).
Win
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From: Joe Reifer
<jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
In-Reply-To:
<CMM.0.90.2.806192908.gallaher@hsc.usc.edu>
Rep's
book is interesting, as is DT Suzuki from a historical context -
unfortuneately
these works don't have anything to do with zen practice -
merely
philosophy (mostly Rinzai). Kapleau on the other hand incorporates
theory
and practice - _the three pillars of zen_ especially.
the
aforementioned Godard collection was studied inside and out by
Kerouac
who, according to Ginsberg, was really turned on and influenced
by this
large work containing japanese zen, chinese (ch'an), tibetan, and
other
works.
yes tim
- i do think that there were brilliant synchronizations of
catholicism
and buddhism in kerouac's work, and the more I study
Buddhism,
the more I see it everywhere in his books (as I'm sure you see
the
biblical side). 8)
joe
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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 19:29:50 -0700
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From: Joe Reifer
<jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%95071920073292@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Welp, i
guess i started a "recommend your favorite zen book" string of
posts -
sheesh. sorry about that.
joe
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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 20:05:10 -0700
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From: Michael Bertsch
<mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SOL.3.91.950719192859.15225B-100000@wahoo.sjsu.edu>
Reading
a book to learn Zen is like swatting a fly to learn how to cook
hamburgers.
Michael
Bertsch
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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:22:09 EST
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From: Josephine Thomson
<Josephine=Thomson%OAE%AVN@SMTPGATE.DOTC.GOV.AU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
Michael
Bertsch <mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU> Wrote:
|
|
|
Reading a book to learn Zen is like swatting a fly to learn how to cook
|
hamburgers.
I think
I hear the sound of one hand clapping.
-josephine-
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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 21:15:25 -0700
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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
>Rep's
book is interesting, as is DT Suzuki from a historical context -
>unfortuneately
these works don't have anything to do with zen practice -
>merely
philosophy (mostly Rinzai). Kapleau on the other hand incorporates
>theory
and practice - _the three pillars of zen_ especially.
>
>the
aforementioned Godard collection was studied inside and out by
>Kerouac
who, according to Ginsberg, was really turned on and influenced
>by
this large work containing japanese zen, chinese (ch'an), tibetan, and
>other
works.
>
>yes
tim - i do think that there were brilliant synchronizations of
>catholicism
and buddhism in kerouac's work, and the more I study
>Buddhism,
the more I see it everywhere in his books (as I'm sure you see
>the
biblical side). 8)
>
>joe
I think
his catholicism gets short shrifted or downplayed or is considered
a
negative influence by many. I don't think
Kerouac would appreciate or
agree
with these observations though. BTW I'm
not Catholic. A few years
ago my
friend was looking for a present for his sister for her birthday.
His
family is catholic and his sister is pretty religious, Catholic
intellectual. She worked with the Mother Teresa
organization for a year,
taught
at catholic schools (maybe still does).
I reccommended that he give
her
Visions of Gerard with some trepidation.
But later I found out she
thought
it was the best book she'd ever read.
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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 21:17:02 -0700
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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
>Reading
a book to learn Zen is like swatting a fly to learn how to cook
>hamburgers.
>
>Michael
Bertsch
Best
hamburg in LA is In and Out. Burger
King is the best of the fast
fooders. I never had a Whitecastle hamburger.
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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 01:07:58 -0400
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From: Nicholas Molise
<OttoMadX@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Garver?
>one
of his old coats goes for 5 gees then what's a 1st ed. (signed
>even)
for The Road go for these days? Must be millions, no?
Actually
you get a 1st of On the Road for about $800.
A good place for this
and
many other beat rarities is the Beat Book Shop in Boulder, CO. They also
have
signed editions of every Bukowski.
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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:53:59 +0300
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From: T P Uschanov
<uschanov@CC.JOENSUU.FI>
Subject: On the Road movie
In-Reply-To: <01HT31W7GLXE000B3J@FIPORT.BITNET>
EVANSBRI@ESUVM.BITNET
wrote:
>I
can't imagine any filmmaker or actors being able to do justice to On The Road
>or any
of Kerouac's books. Im not sure ifI'd
even want to see the movie-only
>end
up being disappointed.
I think
the late Richard Brooks could have done a quite pleasant job on
On the
Road. What do others here think?
T P
Uschanov
uschanov@cc.joensuu.fi
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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 08:55:58 -0500
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From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: YOU'RE FIRED!
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%95071916325760@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> from
"EVANSBRI%ESUVM.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU" at Jul 19, 95 03:28:09
pm
> I
can't imagine any filmmaker or actors being able to do justice to On The
Road
> or any of Kerouac's books. Im not sure ifI'd even want to see the
movie-only
> end up being disappointed.
yeah, i
agree. the way i see it, if you want to
know it, you've got to
experience
it for yourself.
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From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.HPP.3.91.950719200400.26131A-100000@hairball.ecst.csuchico.edu>
from "Michael Bertsch" at Jul 19,
95 08:05:10 pm
>
Reading a book to learn Zen is like swatting a fly to learn how to cook
>
hamburgers.
>
Michael Bertsch
you
know, i've picked up a few zen related books, and i've always found
that a
"zen teacher" is an oxymoron..i mean, enlightenment cannot be
taught..it's
is up to the individual...isn't there a story about a
student
who surpasses his teacher by realizing this? (sort of remember
this in
zen flesh zen bones, but it's been a while)
not
that it matters.
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From: THE WORLD IS ITS OWN MAGIC
<952GRINNELL@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
i think
it might be too easy to divide kerouac's religious interests
along
the lines of buddhism on one side and catholicism on the other side.
in
their purest forms, both philosophies or 'roadmaps to life,' are
after
the same thing. (let's just leave
organized religion outside
this
entire discussion) but both catholicism
(and i was raised catholic,
so i
know of which i speak <g>) and buddhism (and i, too, now study
buddhism)
are expedients means to realize the inherent god (buddha/
bodhisattva)
nature in man. the bible may employ
different terms,
but the
life of jesus is the life of a bodhisattva.
claudia
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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 08:38:58 -0700
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From: Joe Reifer
<jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.HPP.3.91.950719200400.26131A-100000@hairball.ecst.csuchico.edu>
>
Reading a book to learn Zen is like swatting a fly to learn how to cook
>
hamburgers.
>
Michael Bertsch
ahhh...but
you should probably put the fly outside instead of swatting
it...and
then have a soyburger...(and then read a book on zen for food
for yr
brain....and then go sit....).
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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 09:38:44 -0700
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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
>i
think it might be too easy to divide kerouac's religious interests
>along
the lines of buddhism on one side and catholicism on the other side.
>in
their purest forms, both philosophies or 'roadmaps to life,' are
>after
the same thing. (let's just leave
organized religion outside
>this
entire discussion) but both catholicism
(and i was raised catholic,
>so
i know of which i speak <g>) and buddhism (and i, too, now study
>buddhism)
are expedients means to realize the inherent god (buddha/
>bodhisattva)
nature in man. the bible may employ
different terms,
>but
the life of jesus is the life of a bodhisattva.
>claudia
I think
this is well put.
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Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 12:37:17 EST
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From: Josephine Thomson
<Josephine=Thomson%OAE%AVN@SMTPGATE.DOTC.GOV.AU>
Subject: beats and the femmes
Hi
everyone,
I've
just joined the list and it's been an amazing education so far. At the
end of
June Kristen asked about how other women feel about Kerouac - here's my