BEAT-LIST JULY 1995 PART 4

thoughts...

I think Carolyn Cassady's book, Off the Road, really sums it up for me: she

was a woman with a family to support and this meant

(a) she couldn't go out and be one of those wild and/or free-spirited women

that the lads encountered on the road, she had to stay at home and raise the

kids; and

(b) she was married to a reckless and exciting man who did all his reckless

and exciting things away from her and was totally unequipped to provide for a

family in any way. He also often expected her to shoulder the consequences of

his action.

I think so many beat writers were caught between wanting the love and

companionship of a wife and a family and the need to be constantly running

away from it into something new. I don't think it was mysoginistic in any

way. I think a new way of life was opening up to them but they were still

very much in the shackles of the old way (ie, perceptions of the woman's

role). They may have had plenty of sex and plenty of girlfriends but

unltimately the beat generation was a boy's own adventure because they still

hadn't figured out how to include women.

In my arrogant opinion...

-josephine-

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 08:42:40 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Penguin Electronic <ELECTRONIC@PENGUIN.COM>

Subject: Quote from on the Road

I'd be grateful for anyone who could steer me toward the place in On The Road

where the quote (I approximate):

"The only ones for me are the mad ones"

comes from.

And would you agree that this is a particularly resonant quote from OTR?

A page numer or any indication of where to find it in the novel would be greatly

appreciated.

Many thanks.

Julie Hansen

http://www.penguin.com/usa/

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:05:46 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>

Subject: Re: beats and the femmes

In-Reply-To: <199507210235.MAA02398@netmanager.dotc.gov.au> from "Josephine

Thomson" at Jul 21, 95 12:37:17 pm

josephine

> I think so many beat writers were caught between wanting the love and

> companionship of a wife and a family and the need to be constantly running

> away from it into something new. I don't think it was mysoginistic in any

> way. I think a new way of life was opening up to them but they were still

> very much in the shackles of the old way (ie, perceptions of the woman's

> role). They may have had plenty of sex and plenty of girlfriends but

> unltimately the beat generation was a boy's own adventure because they still

> hadn't figured out how to include women.

i guess i'm not a very good feminist, but i have to say, why should

"boys" have to figure out a way to include women? why couldn't women

find their own way? i was somewhat sad when i read about terry...not

because her husband beat her and she had a child to support, but because

she ran to another man to be something... she left her child with her

family (a courageous move on her part) and she left her husband (even

more so), but she didn't have the courage to go out and find herself without

jack to lead the way. maybe this is elitist of me since i've taken

responsibility for my own body and decided to not have children, (there are

enough children that need love, and need a responsible person to help them

survive, why have more) but i don't define myself by the men in my life or the

children that i bear.

i haven't brought up kerouac's women since i finished otr because in my

opinion, kerouac wasn't writing about the women or the sex or the

indulgences... these are all superficial aspects of what the road means

to me now.

kristen

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 06:31:14 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>

Subject: Re: Quote from on the Road

In-Reply-To: <s00f6690.037@penguin.com> from "Penguin Electronic" at Jul 21,

95 08:42:40 am

> I'd be grateful for anyone who could steer me toward the place in On The Road

> where the quote (I approximate):

> "The only ones for me are the mad ones"

> comes from.

It's in the first couple of chapters (I don't have the book here at work, but

you don't have to go far to find it, first 20 pages or so I'd guess).

> And would you agree that this is a particularly resonant quote from OTR?

Yes, and particularly PLAYED OUT! If somebody were presenting a project on

Shakespeare and said "To be or not to be, that is the question" -- I would

not be too impressed. Likewise here. Dig deeper please ...

(insert smileys as needed)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com

Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html

(the beat literature web site)

Queensboro Ballads: http://levity.willow.com/brooklyn/

(my fantasy folk-rock album)

* * * * * * * * * * * * *

150 years ago this month, Thoreau built a house near Walden Pond:

"So I went on for some days cutting and hewing

timber, and also studs and rafters, all with

my narrow axe, not having many communicable

or scholar-like thoughts, singing to myself -- "

-----------------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 08:53:36 PDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Bruce Greeley (Echo News Service)" <v-bgree@MICROSOFT.COM>

Subject: Re: Quote from on the Road

It's in part one, chapter one, like within the first 5 pages of the book...

(and they're the only ones for me too!)

I'd say it IS one of the defining points not only of the book but of

the movement(!)

(one of the few quotes of his in Microsoft's own cd-rom BOOkshelf, by the way!)

- Bruce Greeley

<v-bgree@microsoft.com>

----------

From: Penguin Electronic <ELECTRONIC@PENGUIN.COM>

To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Subject: Quote from on the Road

Date: Friday, July 21, 1995 8:42AM

I'd be grateful for anyone who could steer me toward the place in On The Road

where the quote (I approximate):

"The only ones for me are the mad ones"

comes from.

And would you agree that this is a particularly resonant quote from OTR?

A page numer or any indication of where to find it in the novel would

be greatly

appreciated.

Many thanks.

Julie Hansen

http://www.penguin.com/usa/

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 14:26:18 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Michael Bertsch <mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>

Subject: Re: Quote from on the Road

In-Reply-To: <s00f6690.037@penguin.com>

Goodness, Julie. I'd suggest reading OTR again to find that quote--but

then I'm an English teacher, and you'd suspect such a suggestion from one

so warped.

Michael Bertsch

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 18:23:33 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Win Mattingly <GMATT1@UKCC.UKY.EDU>

Subject: Re: Quote from on the Road

In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 21 Jul 1995 14:26:18 -0700 from

<mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>

otr quote--it's on page nine, about a third of the way down in the 25th anni-

versary edition paperback (1980). Just sort of jumped out at me b/c in this

dogeared community college library copy it's highlighted with a big "wow" in

the margin. Who said this generation of college youth had no souls?

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 15:55:01 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Thomas DeRosa <beatnik7@IX.NETCOM.COM>

Subject: Re: beats and the femmes

josephine,

just in case you weren't aware of it, there is a book called minor

charactors, by joyce johnson, that deals with the women involved in the

*movement*. i guess she was a friend of kerouac's in the late fifties.

thats really all i can say since i haven't read it yet. if i get around

to it anytime soon i'll tell you more. or if any of you have read it,

you can.

namaste,

beatnik7

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 20:06:05 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Quote from on the Road

The quote is toward the beginning, perhaps 1/4 from the start or before.

With a little browsing you should find it.

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 20:34:55 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Mary Maguire 362 7134 <mmaguire@OSM.UTORONTO.CA>

Subject: Cassady Video (kinda long)

I posted a message here a few weeks ago asking if anyone had watched the

Neal Cassady/Merry Pranksters videos put out by Key-Z productions, and

whether or not they're worth buying (for $70). Unfortunately, noone

replied. :(

Last Friday, I was able to rent one of these (for the Torontonians out

there, it was at Suspect Video on Markham St.). It's entitled _Neal

Cassady_ and claims to be a "series of raps" by Neal. It consists of

silent footage of Neal, including scenes of him driving "Further" (the

bus), with voiceovers of his monologues.

The first scenes, in which Neal is dancing around a room, appear to be the

same as the "Neal in the Backhouse" pictures found on the bottom,

righthand corner of every page in Ken Kesey's _A Further Inquiry_. (You

can thumb the pages and make it look as though Neal is actually moving.)

Anyway, some of the movie monologues may be the same as those transcribed

in _A Further Inquiry_. I can't say for sure 'cause I couldn't follow a

damn thing on this tape. I had to turn it off halfway through. Does that

mean I lose my membership in the Beat fanclub? I've felt both fascination

and repulsion toward Neal Cassady since first encountering him in OTR and

especially after reading Carolyn Cassady's _Off the Road_, but I was

really disturbed by this video. Despite having read countless descriptions

of Neal's manic behaviour, I was unprepared for actually seeing and

hearing it -- he just NEVER stops moving. To be honest, it terrified me.

Perhaps the disembodied voice made it worse. It sounded old, and reminded

me of the crazy people who have that vacant look and just keep on talking

as you search their eyes, trying to connect. Maybe it was because Neal's

was the ONLY voice. If there had been others, I could have witnessed a

connection.

I'm glancing through the Further Inquiry transcripts as I write this, and

on paper, he's the same Neal I'd always imagined and wanted him to be.

Sorry to burden you with my inward struggle, but this is Dean Moriarty --

and I DIDN'T LIKE HIM. On a philosophical level, I understand the appeal

of the "mad ones", but I wondered how the same Jack who spent weeks in

solitude on hillsides could spend weeks in a car with the guy on this

tape.

Can somebody help me with this? Can somebody redefine the legend for me?

_____________________________________________________________________

Mary Maguire

mmaguire@osm.utoronto.ca Toronto, Canada

"... a hum came suddenly into his head, which seemed to him

a Good Hum, such as is Hummed Hopefully to Others."

_____________________________________________________________________

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 17:56:03 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Michael Bertsch <mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>

Subject: Re: Cassady Video (kinda long)

In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9507211940.C22349-0100000@oracle.osm.utoronto.ca>

Gosh, Neal Cassady was the fastestmanalive! Of course he never stops moving.

Michael Bertsch

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 20:21:17 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject: Re: Cassady Video (kinda long)

Mary wrote:

>Despite having read countless descriptions

>of Neal's manic behaviour, I was unprepared for actually seeing and

>hearing it -- he just NEVER stops moving. To be honest, it terrified me.

>Perhaps the disembodied voice made it worse. It sounded old, and reminded

>me of the crazy people who have that vacant look and just keep on talking

>as you search their eyes, trying to connect.

This is because this is what he became. Constantly using methamphetamine

and ritalin along with LSD most likely helped this happen. The fellow

Kerouac hung around with was greatly changed by then, just as the drunken

older Kerouac was a reflection of his younger self. The Cassady you saw

here was just a few short years from pre-mature death.

I think i saw these videos you saw around 13 years ago in Berkeley. Then

they were films and some guy from Oregon (Ken Babs ???) brought them down

and showed them. Charged a few dollars. They weren't very good but were

still fun to see.

I think along with the drug,s the dehumanization of him by the hippies,

making him "The Fastest Man Alive" and, as he put it, "Keroassidy" helped

to put him into this detatched state. But mainly it was the drug use that

escalated in the early sixties that he took part in.

Also, and maybe most importantly, read The First Third, his autobiography.

It is telling in that he was actually born a street person as we would call

it now. His father was a wino and he was brought up in the wino community.

It is to his credit that he did as well as he did.

The effect of prison also probably helped to bring about his downward slide.

=========================================================================

Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 01:01:45 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: beats and the femmes

Minor Characters is an excellent book. You might also check out How I Became

Hettie Jones, (by Hettie Jones) another fine book about women & the Beats.

=========================================================================

Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 10:26:22 GMT

Reply-To: JLynch@ldta.demon.co.uk

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: John Lynch <JLynch@LDTA.DEMON.CO.UK>

Subject: Re: beats and the femmes

Minor Characters is a wonderful book, and I recommend it to anyone with any

interest in Kerouac and Cassidy. Joyce Johnson is a good writer, she was

there, and she provides a degree of objectivity not always found in writings

by/about the Beats

John Lynch

"You told me again, you preferred handsome men

But for me you would make an exception"

=========================================================================

Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 13:07:30 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Mitchell Smith <Kerolist@AOL.COM>

Subject: NYU Conference

The Kerouac Connection is seeking articles, reviews, photos, and interviews

in connection with the NYU Conference on The Writings of Jack Kerouac. There

are no specific length and style restrictions for coverage of this event; if

you have something to say, I will work with you on structuring it for

publication.

The deadline for submissions is August 15, but contact me before that if you

are interested.

I am also interested in audio tapes, transcriptions or original copies of the

talks presented. Presenters may submit their work directly to the magazine

for consideration.

I would also appreciate any brochures, fliers, or posters about the event

that could be sent my way.

Submissions may be sent by email to keroconnec.aol.com or to:

The Kerouac Connection

PO Box 462004

Escondido, CA 92046-2004

Submission on disk (mac preferred) are encouraged.

Mitchell Smith, Editor

The Kerouac Connection

=========================================================================

Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 13:05:09 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Mitchell Smith <Kerolist@AOL.COM>

Subject: Kerouac Connection

The Kerouac Connection #27 (Winter 95 Issue) has just been published and is

now available! This issue features papers and reviews from the NYU Beat

Generation Conference, including papers on Kerouac, Corso, and Ginsberg.

There is also a memorial section on Charles Bukowski. The section contains

some Bukowski poetry and drawings, plus memorial pieces by Neeli Cherkovski

(author of the bio "Hank"), Gerald Locklin (longtime Buk friend and

co-editor), and Michael C. Ford as well as poetry by same and others.

The NYU coverage will continue in KC #28 due out in July with more papers as

well as up to the minute news on the Kerouac Estate legal battles, from the

Jan Kerouac Press Conference at the NYU Conference to current developments.

As always, the issue contains news on Kerouac and Beat-related publications,

upcoming events, listings of articles and papers published on Kerouac, and

letters from around the world.

Subscriptions are $20 for 4 issues (foreign orders may send personal checks

in your nation's equivalent of $20--no cash please). Single issues can be

obtained for $5. If you wish to order both issues on the NYU Conference (#27

& 28), you can prepay $9 for both (or indicate that you want a 4 issue

subscription for $19). Checks made payable to The Kerouac Connection. The

magazine address is:

The Kerouac Connection

PO Box 462004

Escondido, CA 92046-2004

I hope to hear from you in the near future, and thank you for your interest.

Mitchell Smith, Editor

The Kerouac Connection

=========================================================================

Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 16:54:19 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Kerouac Connection

Mitchell -

In addition to my regular subscriber's copy, please send us

10 copies of new issue with invoice at dealer's discount.

Thanks.

Jeffrey H. Weinberg

Water Row Books

PO Box 438

Sudbury MA 01776

tel 508-485-8515

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:01:58 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Josephine Thomson <Josephine=Thomson%OAE%AVN@SMTPGATE.DOTC.GOV.AU>

Subject: Re: beats and the femmes

Thanks for all the suggestions on the books to read - scribbling them down &

ringing the bookstore is a great way to waste the first half hour at work on a

Monday morning.

Kristen, thanks for making me think more specifically about what I meant to

say...still thinking.

Josephine

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 15:57:17 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Raymond Holloway <urhollow@UXA.ECN.BGU.EDU>

Subject: Re: Are You On Our Mailing List?

In-Reply-To: <950705145645_25814261@aol.com>

On Wed, 5 Jul 1995, Jeffrey Weinberg wrote:

> Our mail-order catalogue is filled with the best from Beat writers: Kerouac -

> Ginsberg - Burroughs - Corso - Whalen - McClure, many others. Nice used

> copies, scarce first editions, recordings, videos, posters, T-shirts, etc.

> Thousands of Beat items in stock. Lots of Bukowski too. If you'd like to be

> placed on our mailing list, please send your snail-mail address. It's free.

> Satisfaction guaranteed. Free Search Service too.

> Cisco Harland

> Water Row Books

> PO Box 438

> Sudbury MA 01776

> Tel 508-485-8515

> Fax 508-229-0885

> e-mail waterrow@aol.com

Suscribe Raymond Holloway urhollow@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 00:40:39 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Dan Lauffer <DanLauff@AOL.COM>

Subject: NOWHERESVILLE

---------------------

Forwarded message:

From: MAILER-DAEMON@emout04.mail.aol.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)

To: DanLauff@aol.com

Date: 95-07-27 00:45:39 EDT

------- =_aaaaaaaaaa

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Description: Session Transcript

550 cunyvm (tcp)... Host unknown

550 beat-l@cunyvm... Host unknown

------- =_aaaaaaaaaa

Content-Type: message/rfc822

Content-Description: Returned Content

Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com

(1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA222419851; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 00:37:31 -0400

Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 00:37:31 -0400

From: DanLauff@aol.com

Return-Path: <DanLauff@aol.com>

Message-Id: <950727003731_123952034@aol.com>

To: beat-l@cunyvm

Subject: Nowheresville

Readers should be aware of NOWHERESVILLE an adult comic book-noir referred to

as Kerouac meets Chandler. It is published by Caliber Press. Try your local

comic dealer or Caliber's 1-800-346-8940 for credit card orders.

------- =_aaaaaaaaaa--

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 08:11:20 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Gene Simakowicz <Genebard@AOL.COM>

Subject: MTV

Maybe it's just me,but what is this On The Road business MTV is putting on

the airwaves with these kids traveling cross country in an RV? Maybe I'm

getting old or cynical. This is one of the times I'm thankful that I'm in my

forties.

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:04:04 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>

Subject: Re: MTV

In-Reply-To: <950728081119_42661723@aol.com> from "Gene Simakowicz" at Jul 28,

95 08:11:20 am

> Maybe it's just me,but what is this On The Road business MTV is putting on

> the airwaves with these kids traveling cross country in an RV? Maybe I'm

> getting old or cynical. This is one of the times I'm thankful that I'm in my

> forties.

it's a group of people thinking they are doing something original. (sort

of like sex. i'd be surprised if any have read kerouac.) why television?

it's what they relate to. i grew up watching way too much tv. most people my

age have. i'm 24. would i roam around the country in an rv while people tape

my every move and mtv foots the bill? no. i see nothing bold or innovative in

this. just goes to show you, it's not age, it's perception.

*smirk*

kristen

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:36:58 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: THE WORLD IS ITS OWN MAGIC <952GRINNELL@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>

Subject: Re: MTV

everything has been done before. except now, it's done in color and

in an air-conditioned RV (fully equipped, i'd bet). back to the

future, but without the sweat!

claudia

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:23:42 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Lisa Bonelli <BONELLI@SONOMA.EDU>

Subject: Re: MTV

Didn't Wolf follow around the Merry Prankster in Kesey's bus, driven

by Neal Cassady, and then write a book about it: the electric

kool-aid acid trip, or something to that effect. So, yes, everything

has been done before. This is definately OTR meets the MTV generation.

lisa

=========================================================================

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:39:59 +0800

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Frank Stevenson <t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>

Subject: GOING DOWN 1

Comments: To: derrida <derrida@cfrvm.cfr.usf.edu>

whew! i finally edited out all those unwanted "uncontrolled" char-

acters....of course, maybe they will magically reappear, quite beyond

my comprehension or control, when this arrives at its designated desti-

nation-points....this is a story i wrote about 2-&-a-half years ago &

haven't done anything with yet (finally succeeded ? in uploading it),

actually it's one in a series of "chapters" of a projected hypothetical

"novel" a few more of which i may send later....if anyone happens to be

in boston august 4-8 check out the international chinese philosophy

conference at boston university (school of theology, i think), where i'll

be presenting a paper on the i ching and derridean "writing"--perhaps as

part of a panel where comparative issues concerned/intertwisted/inter-

twined with the (real or imaginary) concepts of "reason"/"rhizome"/"tao"

may be being discussed, or at least entertained....

frank w. stevenson, national taiwan normal university, taipei

GOING DOWN

=20

1. the roach =20

in media res in molecular gaps, interstellar interstices of=20

cowhide molecules of his aged leather sandals, whisked from the=20

market in kabul in early august when they felt still fresh and=20

invigorated by the crisp mountain air, his left foot came down on=20

solid concrete, molecules densely packed, on a cracked and lit-

tered sidewalk in taipei in a depressing light rain. he was=20

remembering his trip across afghanistan and india to thailand and =20

the far east, seventeen years earlier as the crow flies as he=20

reckoned it.=20

sad, a little. nostalgia. that's life, mon. "'tis the fate=20

man (and cow? cowhide molecule?) was born for/'tis moi you mourn

for."=20

sam was walking back to his apartment in southern taipei, where

he dwelled with taiwanese wife and daughter. he passed the univer-

sity building on his right, glanced up at his 8th floor english=20

department office (feeling faintly paranoid, on the vertiginous verge=20

or twinge of nausea), then straight and left onto the narrow=20

alley, down one block....he watched the leather sandals at the end =20

of grey pipe-stems that were his pants come down on soft and gutted=20

concrete that seemed to open abysmally in the rain (k'an, water, the=20

abysmal, one yang between two yin's) beneath his feet.

how can i still have these old sandals? he wondered. he=20

hadn't worn them for years, thought the disappeared, then=20

found them the night before purely by chance in an old cardboard=20

box and put them on that morning on a whim....riding on a whim,=20

riding in a boxcar...they were reminding him of temps perdu,=20

perhaps a talisman, magic carpet lifting, lilting....soft voices=20

calling, leather squeaking, molecular mouse squeaks....lightly=20

wafting him =A0ack, and/or lifting back to front, to the=20

"now"....relativity, which train stopped and which=20

moving?....front to back and back to front, deja vu, experience=20

of previous lifetimes....all in the frontal & occipital lobes, he=20

thought, all in the f-ing chemicals...tho that's an effrontery,=20

hah! to sheer transcendental idealists, to la belle metaphysique=20

perhaps and la plupart de la pensee continental, to paradigms,=20

pair o' ducks, or (in a word) paraplui.=20

the rain was picking up so he opened his umbrella and raised=20

it moments before reaching the ta men ko, "main door mouth" of=20

his apt bldg on left. then he was taking (the) unwieldy key out=20

of left pants pocket, after shifting umbrella to right hand in=20

heavy rain now, and fumbling to unlock the clumsy iron door...inside,

the key back to pocket, folding the umbrella...each action seemed

infinitely slow and painful to him, as if caught between the molecular

moments and stuck there in an endless viscous mass, a viscosity of glue,=20

airplane cement or library paste.... his brain cells "pasted in"....

a great dumb lumbering elephant wallowing in mud, in the glutinous

morass, the abyss, mise en abime, he commenced the slow and tiring walk=20

up five steep flights of filthy stairs in a dark, warm and very humid=20

stairwell.=20

...it was....he remembered the feeling now in northern india,=20

autumn sunshine rich and balmy, almost decadent after (arid dried-shit-

smell) catharsis, purification of the persian desert, crossing from=20

pakistan at amritsar and loving the green trees and grass and the cows

everywhere, owning the place, the milk, india springing you, incense=20

curry pulsing with life in varansi in the streets, down by the sacred=20

river ganges debauched bodies burned to ash and then sitting at the

streetside stalls drinking the bang lassies ("shoma bang mikashid?")

with flees "the flying dutchman," who almost set his beard on fire

by accident lighting the hash pipe in katmandu as they rolled howl-

ing on the dusty wooden floor, and walking beside the holy river=20

in bodh gaya with mark.....that was great, the clear blue sky and=20

not too hot in the north of india in when? november of '75? just=20

before heading north for nepal.....the tree, the temples every-

where, and then down by the river where buddha had walked, talk-

ing with mark...

he was lying now in his bathtub in taipei, the water a less=20

dense medium than concrete or leather, trying to cool off before=20

commencing his morning's reading....or perhaps writing....

they were standing by the bodhi tree beneath which buddha sat=20

and meditated for many months on life as pain due to human=20

attachment and supposedly gained enlightenment. mark said,=20

"there's so much suffering, i mean awareness of suffering, under=20

that tree. so much compassion. they say he was doing kind of a

christ trip, you know, taking on himself the suffering of mankind

in order to overcome it....in a way."

sam was looking at the tree. "basically he just saw that it's=20

all passing quickly, right?" the fleeting desire to get high=20

played in the back corners of his mind but he tried to ignore it.=20

"yep, to see clearly, to really know that it's all passing=20

quickly, going down fast, everything going down and we're also=20

going down...."

but sam thought this a natural intuition of all life-

forms (even extra-terrestrial ones?), embedded in their bones,=20

that they were "going down fast," that they were beings in and of=20

time--he had always felt this (poets, artists surely felt it,=20

that's why they wanted to catch the fleeting meaning, freeze it=20

in the form of their work)--not derived from or dependent on any=20

philosophy or religion, though perhaps these images--buddha under=20

his tree--somehow helped people to focus on this awareness, to=20

foreground it....as art also did, in another way?....but just life's

fleetingness, not necessarily it's "going down"?...."or perhaps just

passing, not necessarily down or up...."

mark reflected. "right, but that's the point: the just passing=20

is sad, its painful to us because of our illusion of standing still,

thinking we should be standing still, wanting to stand still and not

change but we can't so our passing has the sense of being a downer....

i mean, that's the point: we change, we die, right? we don't want to

die, become nothing.

sam was thinking (now, in his tub, he was also thinking)=20

there was some sort of paradox--life just passing because there's=20

death but death is an end, a limit, no more passing--but he=20

couldn't quite think it through. they had stared at the tree for=20

a long time; it made an indelible impression. then they'd walked=20

down by the river and mark had started talking about the beauty=20

of the river, the meadow and trees and temples behind (gesturing=20

widely), the beauty of all things. =20

"it's all beautiful but it's all going down....or beautiful=20

because it's going down?" sam took off his sandals and started=20

wading into the shallow, pleasantly cool water. his thinking led=20

back to the same old paradox: beauty in the passing or in the=20

illusory form that would fix it?=20

mark stood just on the shore, pondering it. "i don't know,=20

sam. but...." (looking around him, laughing, gesturing widely with

both arms) "....it's a high, right? it's an UP, man! it's fucking=20

BEAUTIFUL!" He was laughing his mark-laugh.=20

"shit, you're right." this notion reinforced his own paradox-

ical bent and sam thought about it, wading in the shallow river=20

water. "maybe all going down and so, as heraclitus would say,=20

going up at the same time? the way up is the way down? the 'just=20

passing' equals the simultaneous, paradoxical up-and-down?"

mark pondered it, pulling papers.....

he went on, feeling the molecules of water around his feet:=20

"so =A0then this awareness, is it purely contemplative, based on a=20

formal identity of opposites (going down/coming up), or=20

pragmatic, based on the actual experience of personally going=20

down the drain, the great cosmic sink, and coming back up again=20

in an altered form, the form of an enlightened being, a cockroach=20

for example?"=20

mark pondered it, pulling papers from the right side pocket=20

of his white cotton vest and rolling up a "j" faster than anyone=20

else he'd known could do it. then they were smoking one, mark=20

just on the shore in white cotton pants, open vest and sandals,=20

sam in brown cotton pants so thin and light rolled up, red cotton=20

vest open too to the breeze and sun, up to his knees almost in=20

the sacred river, onto which were falling lightly the ashes of=20

their momentary passing. it was great. life was great. hemingway=20

fishing his river, where fishing was also "tragic"...a balance,=20

perhaps....tathgatha, "suchness".....

"or maybe there's no down. maybe passing is just going up,"

mark said, the last word choked off by the toke but he raised the=20

hand not holding the joint to express the point & then they both=20

were holding their breaths, sam as if in a sort of sympathetic=20

resonance, & then bursting out. they were getting high.

sam shrugged his shoulders, arms extended on either side with=20

both palms facing up.

"no sam, sam, wait" passing him the j "it's not that it's =20

all going down and we maintain the illusion of going up--this is=20

what people think, right? this is why they get ripped? (laughing=20

uncontrollably with the burst of exhaled smoke)--but it's not that,=20

sam, no! it's the OTHER WAY AROUND!"....he was starting to get=20

excited in a certain way he had, speaking faster, gesticulating,=20

eyes gleaming from behind the black beard of youth....

sam held it as long as he could, feeling the river between=20

his toes, and then breathed out the smoke, thinking of molecules=20

in air ..."cruising at a certain altitude..." mark laughed and he=20

passed it back..."do you want the roach?" passing it....thinking=20

of smoke molecules in the air, of ezra pound (now, lying in his=20

tub, he thought) ("still stone dogs/caught in metamorphosis/biting

empty air")....(or rilke: "throw the emptiness from your arms/to

feel the expanded air")....or just frozen, in the abysmal water=20

running through your veins like time, in the abysmal sky breathing

through ancient lungs, in mid-flight, tasting the aftertaste,=20

ashes under the tongue.....and then mark came in and they waded=20

silently in small circles of river water glittering in sunlight.

they were definitely stoned.

=20

or had been, once, he thought, lying naked in luke-warm water=20

in his tub in taipei about 16 years later. yes, they had passed=20

the joint and gotten stoned that time and then that had passed.=20

the getting stoned in bodh gaya, like a lot of things before and=20

since, had passed. even the ashes of their passing that floated=20

in the warm currents of the river had passed. you could freeze=20

the moments but you also couldn't freeze them, like ice they=20

would be already melting.=20

=20

he lay in the cooling water in his tub and clenched his=20

fists. he felt like a fucking roach that had climbed up out of=20

the drain into the merely human world of money and concrete=20

walls, into shit city, and then couldn't find its way back=20

down.....or was it the other way around?

=20

=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=

=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A

=========================================================================

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:43:40 +0800

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Frank Stevenson <t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>

Subject: unstrung signifiers (fwd)

Comments: cc: Seth Stevenson <SethSteve.@Brown.Edu>

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 19:46:04 +0800 (CST)

From: Frank Stevenson <t22001@cc.ntnu.edu.tw>

To: fict-of-phil <fiction-of-philosophy@jefferson.village.virginia.edu>

Cc: Seth Stevenson <SethStevenson@Brown.Edu>

Subject: unstrung signifiers

BUT I do also like Auerbach's book, especially as it is such a fine

piece of "traditional" (pre-post-modern, pre-post-structuralist) scholarship

and of "close reading" (that art apparently lost to all except perhaps the

Derrideans, oddly enough)....of course, the question of what mimesis or

RE-PRESENTATION finally IS and of whether ART is ultimately MIMESIS of

"WIRKLICHKEIT" or something else (like maybe expression, impression,

mere "pression," language games, unstrung chains of confused "signifiers"

looking for a quick fix, power "discourses"--with automatic transmission

and up to 500 horsepower--sort of swimming around with cleched fists and

copulating with one another, as our foucauldians friends the "cultural

critics" might have it) is an ever-burning issue in literary theory......

Frank W. Stevenson, N.T.N.U., Taipei

=========================================================================

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 03:13:39 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Nicholas Molise <OttoMadX@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: MTV (blah, blah, blah)

Comments: cc: Seymour360@aol.com

Of course this MTV crap has gotten way out of hand. But they are after all,

just making money off the fact that nothing is original anyhow. Everything,

everyone is cool. Nothing you hold sacred is sacred anymore. Even the most

raw and underground, untainted thing you know, be it an author, artist,

whatever, will soon be expolited and sold as t-shirts for $24.95 in the back

of Rolling Stone. We have become a target market. Even now hidden away in

some backwards mailing list on the internet, people are at this very minute

plotting on ways to sell our dreams in slick, gooey packaging.

Its really sad to see all the great writers and ideas that came out of the

beat generation boiling down to another hollywood flick or ads for kahkis at

the Gap. But perhaps it was always that way. Hollywood did a number with

Subterraneans and look where they published Kerouac's articles in his later

days - Playboy. He was so ashamed that he could only get published in some

magazine he couldnt even show to his mother. Could it be that all of this

was expolited from the beginning and we just have to overlook it. None of

the beat generation authors were superheros to begin with and now they are

all just perpetuating the image. Ginsberg is a crabby old man living on old

ideas and borrowed notions. Him and the rest of the gang that are still

around hold meetings and seminars, making money off their former

associations. Recently they held a Kerouac conference at NYU for what, $350

a person. Doesnt anyone else see this as ironic capitalism. I bet they were

all wearing Jerry Garcia ties as well.

The thing to remember is not how much money they are going to make selling

what has inspired you as different flavors of bubble gum - but the fact that

you were inspired in the first place. No one here would deny that reading

Kerouac or Bukowski or even Hemingway for the first time made you think that

you were the only person in the world - that what you were reading was

especially for you. Well, it is up to the point that you dont get

disappointed every time someone tries to sell your art as used tires. I mean

after all - we do live in America. Explotation is what we do best.

And besides all of this has been done before. This same message written, any

kind of angry replies you may decide to write defend Ginsberg - they have

already been written. Its like critizing Tarentino for ripping off John Woo

films - all we know about film comes from other films, so why not? Were all

just living on third generation images anyhow.

Nick.

=========================================================================

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 19:03:45 +0800

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Frank Stevenson <t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>

Subject: Re: RECENT DISCUSSION (fwd)

Comments: To: deleuze-guattari@jefferson.village.virginia.edu

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 19:02:35 +0800 (CST)

From: Frank Stevenson <t22001@cc.ntnu.edu.tw>

To: fict-of-phil <fiction-of-philosophy@jefferson.village.virginia.edu>

Cc: phil-lit <phil-lit@tamvm1.tamu.edu>

Subject: Re: RECENT DISCUSSION (fwd)

Thank you, Ms. L.B. Bissell, for your wondrous reply-post, full of

brilliance and wit and at a level of sophistication (Oxford....hmmm, that

might explain it....notice typical Yank inferiority complex at work here,

which may help to explain following "ant" metaphor with Lilliputian amp-

litudes) sufficient to keep me luxuriously "feeding" upon it

for days and weeks, at my leisure in the late afternoon sun....(more or

less like a swarm of hungry ants feeding upon the sweetest honied

carcass....)

I realize I'm probably too quick to reject the (seemingly, but perhaps

I've over-simplified them, perhaps that's the point) more blatantly political

and "politically correct" forms of criticism so fashionable now, e.g.

cultural studies, post-colonialism, etc: BUT I would still maintain (as

I did at a recent American Lit conference here where evveryone was saying

we must emphasize plurality and DIFFERENCES among ethnic groups, no

old-fashioned notion of lit as expressing UNIVERSAL human qualities was

to be allowed--because it's always the ones in "power" that define the

univversal, is that it? this seems nonsense to me--that when Hamlet says

"Alas poor Yorick,/I knew him well, Horatio/He was a fellow of infinite

jest"....or when Chguang-tzu says "This is also that," there is something

deeper and more "univversal" at work or play than the levvel of

socio-ethnic-political "differences" or group-identities....)

fws

=========================================================================

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 18:56:04 +0800

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Frank Stevenson <t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>

Subject: going down 2 (fwd)

Comments: To: derrida <derrida@cfrvm.cfr.usf.edu>