>STROFSKY
(Ginsberg) and his visions to utter distress.
>
>Ah
hell its all just a bunch of shit anyway, why do you care?
>
>------------------------------
>
>End
of BEAT-L Digest - 15 Sep 1995 to 16 Sep 1995
>*************************************************
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:12:10 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
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From: Terry Kattleman
<Tkattleman@EWORLD.COM>
Subject: Re: Big Sur
Comments:
To: BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cmsa.berkeley.edu
Re JC
Holmes, Go and others of his worth reading:
I found Go, while
essential
Beat reading, obviously, quite tedious toward the end. The
characters,
without exception, were annoying the hell out of me. Maybe they
were
supposed to, they lived in annoying times, but, for me, compelling
fiction
this did not make. Holmes' The Horn, on
the other hand, a
fictionalized
last day in the life of Lester Young, was magnificent,
brilliant.
Brings Go to a dead stop in comparison, as far as I'm concerned.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 15:45:20 -0500
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From: Nicholas Herren
<NPH002@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
Subject: Rhythm
As I
said earlier I still believe the most important part to Kerouac's
writing
is in what he was trying to say, but I am not him. And so my
interpretation
does not matter, but rather his own interpretation as he
stated
to Malcolm Cowley, the man who helped get Road published, and I
quote:
"I
see now the whole Cathedral of Form which this is, and am so glad that I
self-taught
myself (with some help from Messrs. Joyce & Faulkner) to write
SPONTANEOUS
PROSE so that though the eventual LEGEND will run into millions
of words,
they'll all be spontaneous and therefore pure and therefore
interesting
and at the same time what rejoices me most:
RHYTHMIC--It's
prose
answering the requirements mentioned by W.C. Williams, for natural
speech
rhytmns and words--I'm not doing a pitch for [myself], [I don't]
need it
anymore, [I] am walking around in ecstasy because [my] entire
life-work
is beginning to shape up and [I] know that all of it (tho eventually
it will
languish among the ruins) is holy and was a well done thing."
In his
typical nature he had to use third person as not to appear vain, yeah
right,
and so I changed the tenses. Either way
I think it is extremely clear
his
opinion.
And as
to the theory behind SUBTERRANEANS being all about rhythm I have another
letter
that he wrote explaining that work:
"I
only want to stress, however, that in making those "minor changes
throughout"
we do not dare touch the rhythm of that prose and those
sentences;
I assume they want to remove objectionable words, I will replace
them
with words of similar sonic rhytmn"
Kerouac's Letter to Sterling Lord
Dated
Sunday Oct. 7, 1956
by the
way both these quotes are from ANN CHARTERS book __JACK KEROUAC:
SELECTED
LETTERS__ and after having finished it
I would suggest it to
anyone
who wants to know about Kerouac in depth, before his success.
Nick
Herren
nph002@acad.drake.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 17:16:49 EDT
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
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From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Typing
Did
anyone watch the season premiere of "Silk Stalkings?" They quoted
Truman
Capote's infamous quip "That's not writing, it's typing." They
thought,
however, that it referred to Clifford Irving rather than
Kerouac. Now what ever gave them that idea? I also came upon a note in
a
forthcoming book on the Beat Generation that quoted Samuel Beckett on
the
Burroughs' cut-up method: "That's
not writing, it's plumbing."
Notes
weren't included in my galleys. Does
anyone know where this
Beckett
quote comes from?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 15:38:50 PDT
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Ginsberg Kerouac Dreams
The
current Whole Earth Review printed two dreams of Allen Ginsberg about
Jack
Kerouac. They are interesting to read.
Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:12:49 -0700
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From: the Literary Denim
<vj@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Re: Holmes, Anything Worth Reading
Continuing posts, which go something like this:
> By
the way, has J.C.Holmes written anything that might be worth reading,
besides
GO?
> Michael Heeg
>>The
Horn, on the other hand, a fictionalized last day in the life of
Lester
Young, was magnificent,
>>brilliant.
Brings Go to a dead stop in comparison, as far as I'm concerned.
>> Terry Kattleman
_____________________________________
Holmes
is, arguably, an overlooked and better essayist than novelist.
_GO_
was perhaps one of those collision of events, published at the right
time,
among the right collection of friends.
Had literary history not
washed
the way it did gracias JK and AG, GO may not have come forward.
As an
essayist Holmes can, like Krim, scour
private sentiment and
experience,
then lace the narrative with proportioned sprinklings of cosmic
and
historical detail to generalize as a
condition of the times whatever in
personal
circumstance he happens to be pondering.
Don't
know if because his essays came (most
of them) much later than _GO_,
for
example, when he was older, more experienced, or whether he actually
found
the essay a more comfortable form, but his essays seem less often
strained,
better developed. He can be as rhythmic
as K.
Try
_Nothing More to Declare_ (Deutsch, 1968) or _Gone in October_
(Limberlost,
1985). His journal excepts read well,
too (if you can find
them). Darn good diarist.
\\|//
(o o)
-----------------------
--------------oOO--(
)--OOo--------------------------------------
vj@primenet.com | Accept loss forever.
Tempe, AZ |
|
Jack
Kerouac
-------------------------------------ooooO---Ooooo-------------------------
-------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:19:28 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re Whole Earth and Dreams
>Tim,
can you send me the date and page numbers so I get a copy on interlibrary
>loan?
It is
the current Whole Earth Review at the newstands now.
The dreams
are short and cover less than one page of the magazine.
I read
them in the store.
Maybe
someone who subscribes or bought a copy can provide the date and
page
numbers.
Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 20:43:20 -0400
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From: "Joshua S. Miller"
<DrBenwaye@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Big Sur
words
shmurds is beauty....love !!!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 20:39:06 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Joshua S. Miller"
<DrBenwaye@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Big Sur
amen! a
typo is a typo ...get past your pettiness and try to fathom the work
instead
of a superficial printing error.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 10:19:30 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: M D Fascione
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: Help please
In-Reply-To: <01HVB4T79FIE0052OU@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
Please
send me the correct address to inform this list of a change of
address.
Iwish to remain subscribed to this list.
MANY
THANKS
Daniel
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 09:44:32 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
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From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Holmes, Anything Worth Reading
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:12:49 -0700
from <vj@PRIMENET.COM>
Both
The Horn and Get Home Free are strong novels, more interesting than
go. Holmes essays, published in a 3 volume set
by the University of
Arkansas,
are first rate. His poems aren't bad
either. I wonder if
part of
the reason Holmes is less known or less read is that he hasn't
had the
flamboyant lives led by Kerouac, Burroughs, Ginsberg & Cassady.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 10:37:50 EDT
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
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From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Help please
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 19 Sep 1995 10:19:30 +0100
from
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 19:17:12 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: Big Sur
I liked
Holmes' novel THE HORN.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 19:21:03 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: Big Sur
"The
woods are full of wardens."
--JK, "The
Vanishing American Hobo"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:18:24 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
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From: "P.G. Springer"
<hloosn8@PRAIRIENET.ORG>
Comments:
To: "P.G. Springer" <hloosn8@firefly.prairienet.org>
In-Reply-To: <61373.311952076@RedwoodFN.org>
I'm
interested in a discography of The Fugs.
Wasn't
there a later album entitled "It Just Crawled Into My Hand, Honest"?
Your
help appreciated.
Note
new Tricycle magazine has interview with Ginsberg and an article,
Buddhism
and the Beats.
p gregory springer
throw
the cow over the fence some hay
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 14:18:41 EDT
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Tracey L. Milton"
<milton_t@APOLLO.HP.COM>
Subject: unabomber manifesto
Most
decidedly not beat, but an EXTREMELY interesting
read.
Printed in its entirety (33,000 words, I'm only about
a tenth
of the way thru!) at:
http://pathfinder.com
enjoy
Tracey
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 22:04:38 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
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From: Laurie Syrek
<HamOnRye5@AOL.COM>
Subject: Kerouac, Friends and Cox
If Jack
Kerouac were alive, do you think he'd watch Seinfeld or Friends? I
think
he'd rail against both, but fantasize about Courtney Cox.
I hope
this sparks something interesting!!
Laur
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 22:06:34 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac, Friends and Cox
>If
Jack Kerouac were alive, do you think he'd watch Seinfeld or Friends? I
>think
he'd rail against both, but fantasize about Courtney Cox.
>
>I
hope this sparks something interesting!!
>
>Laur
I don't
know what he would watch, but whatever he watched I don't think he
would
pay much notice. For example he watched
TV when he was alive. I
have
heard that he was watching the Galloping Gourmet when he had his fatal
hemorrage.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:05:26 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
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List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac, Friends and Cox
In-Reply-To:
<950921220436_25947123@emout06.mail.aol.com> from "Laurie
Syrek"
at Sep 21, 95 10:04:38 pm
>
> If
Jack Kerouac were alive, do you think he'd watch Seinfeld or Friends? I
>
think he'd rail against both, but fantasize about Courtney Cox.
>
> I
hope this sparks something interesting!!
christ...where
did this come from.... i just spent the worst train ride
of my
life sitting in a corner, cringing with pain...trying desperately
to read
_the dharma bums_ but all i could hear was the incessant inanity
of a
plastic woman across the aisle... she was beaming over her thursday
night
television escapades... he lips never stopped moving... her voice
dominated
every available space in that tuna can... i was beginning to
rant in
my mind... please stop...please stop...
i
stared at the tracks and thought of my geometry teacher...
"in
euclidean geometry, parallel lines never intersect...but change this
statement...
make it a postulate that parellel lines do intersect and you
no
longer have euclidean geometry.."
i
thought... a new perspective... a new reality... see the train tracks...
what if
they converged? who would be able to
survive the change?
uuuugh. it's over..it's gone.. please stop.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 08:12:43 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
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From: Nicholas Herren <NPH002@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac, Friends and Cox
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Fri, 22 Sep 1995
09:05:26 -0500"
<199509221305.JAA25988@imageek.york.cuny.edu>
>
> If Jack Kerouac were alive, do you think
he'd watch Seinfeld or Friends? I
>
think he'd rail against both, but fantasize about Courtney Cox.
>
If Jack were alive he would be DRUNK or
STONED or HIGH and wouldnt care
one bit
about Seinfeld or friends, but if he saw Courtney Cox in a bar or
a
whorehouse or one of HIS friends illustrious parties, I am sure he would
eye her
down and somehow have some fun.
>christ...where
did this come from.... i just spent the worst train ride
How could the train ride be so boring, were
you not in the Hobo Section.
By the
way if you just read __Dharma Bums__ and are wondering maybe who
Japhy
Ryder really is, his name is GARY SNYDER and he did publish a book
of Han
Shan poems.
As for
the Euclian Geometry I feel sorry for you having to learn that kind
of high
level math so you could torture yourself on trains.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:32:03 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac, Friends and Cox
In-Reply-To: <01HVKIWGZ5TQ00AH7D@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
from "Nicholas Herren" at Sep
22, 95 08:12:43 am
>
Japhy Ryder really is, his name is GARY SNYDER and he did publish a book
> of
Han Shan poems.
thank
you.
> As
for the Euclian Geometry I feel sorry for you having to learn that kind
> of
high level math so you could torture yourself on trains.
then
you did not understand...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:34:27 EST
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
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From: "David J. Tucker"
<DJTUCKE@TEL1.ACCUSORT.COM>
Organization:
Accu-Sort Systems, inc.
Subject: Re: Kerouac, Friends and Cox
,or to
be on a train with dreams of Moloch!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:41:27 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Dream film
Last
night I was watching _Rebel Without a
Cause_ and was imagining a movie
with
Sal Mineo as the young Allen Ginsberg during the Columbia U days . I
could
somewhat see James Dean as Kerouac, not at all as Cassady, but could
best
imagine him playing Lucien
Carr--described by G. as being young,
innocent
but with "a daemonic fury..."
As my
fertile but pecuniously useless mind toyed with this idea, I started
thinking
that the Carr-Kammerer story might make a great movie. Besides the
incident
itself, which I thought was pretty good on its own, there is the
whole
contellation of young soon-to-be Beat
icons,
in their earliest days together, heavily involved but not the focal
point.
This could keep the film from descending into an exercise in hero
worship.
Just a
thought,
Jules
PS--how
about Jim Carrey as Cassady? :)!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:41:02 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Heeg
<mheeg@SMTPINET.ASPENSYS.COM>
Subject: Re: Dream film
What is it with you comparing everything
to movies and T.V. shows? In
most cases I believe that the written
word is much stronger and more
meaningful than the spoken word in films
or T.V.. Television numbs the
mind,
throw your television out the window. JK was not into T.V., one
of his books I can't remember which, he describes walking the night
in a suburban neighborhood, seeing
nothing but the same blue light
radiating from every home. He couldn't beleive that everyone was
living this life in front of a
television, when you could be out
experiencing life. That's what I believe his books are about
living
life, experiencing everything. It's just really disappointing with
all of these comparisions to movies and
ridiculous T.V. shows, and
unfortunately I did see the show Friends
and it was HORRIBLE!!! Won't
make the same mistake.
______________________________
Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject:
Dream film
Author: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> at SMTPINET
Date: 9/22/95 9:53 AM
Last
night I was watching _Rebel Without a
Cause_ and was imagining a movie
with
Sal Mineo as the young Allen Ginsberg during the Columbia U days . I
could
somewhat see James Dean as Kerouac, not at all as Cassady, but could
best
imagine him playing Lucien
Carr--described by G. as being young,
innocent
but with "a daemonic fury..."
As my
fertile but pecuniously useless mind toyed with this idea, I started
thinking
that the Carr-Kammerer story might make a great movie. Besides the
incident
itself, which I thought was pretty good on its own, there is the
whole
contellation of young soon-to-be Beat
icons,
in their earliest days together, heavily involved but not the focal
point.
This could keep the film from descending into an exercise in hero
worship.
Just a
thought,
Jules
PS--how
about Jim Carrey as Cassady? :)!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 08:42:36 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dream film
>As
my fertile but pecuniously useless mind toyed with this idea, I started
>thinking
that the Carr-Kammerer story might make a great movie.
There
was a book written about this incident by Burroughs and Kerouac
called
And the Hippos were Boiled in Their Tanks.
In the
letters by kerouac recently published he mentioned the Hippos book
and
said it was in a trunk at his Mother's house.
So presumably this
manuscript
still exists. Does anyone know for sure
about this?
I would
think that with all the beat interest these days that a book
co-authored
by Burroughs and Kerouac would be greedily lusted after by
publishers. Does anyone have actual information on this
subject?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:26:47 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Martin Taylor <mtaylor@GPU.SRV.UALBERTA.CA>
Subject: Self-inflicted Geometry
In-Reply-To:
<199509221332.JAA26626@imageek.york.cuny.edu>
On Fri,
22 Sep 1995, Kristen VanRiper wrote:
>
> Japhy Ryder really is, his name is GARY SNYDER and he did publish a book
>
> of Han Shan poems.
>
>
thank you.
>
>
> As for the Euclian Geometry I feel sorry for you having to learn that kind
>
> of high level math so you could torture yourself on trains.
>
>
>
then you did not understand...
I think
Nicholas understood perfectly. Think of
it as a koan... truth can
be _so_
funny.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 12:04:47 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Dream film
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:41:27 -0400
from <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
On Fri,
22 Sep 1995 09:41:27 -0400 Julie Hulvey said:
>Last
night I was watching _Rebel Without a
Cause_ and was imagining a movie
>with
Sal Mineo as the young Allen Ginsberg during the Columbia U days . I
>could
somewhat see James Dean as Kerouac, not at all as Cassady, but could
>best
imagine him playing Lucien
Carr--described by G. as being young,
>innocent
but with "a daemonic fury..."
>As
my fertile but pecuniously useless mind toyed with this idea, I started
>thinking
that the Carr-Kammerer story might make a great movie. Besides the
>incident
itself, which I thought was pretty good on its own, there is the
>whole
contellation of young soon-to-be Beat
>icons,
in their earliest days together, heavily involved but not the focal
>point.
This could keep the film from descending into an exercise in hero
>worship.
>
>Just
a thought,
>
>Jules
>PS--how
about Jim Carrey as Cassady? :)!
It
would certainly make a sensational movie, one that I'm sure Lucien
Carr
wouldnot be very happy about. Have you
read Aaron Latham's article
in New
York Magazine about the murder? If
anyone needs the citation,
I'd be
glad to look it up. I wonder whatever happened to Latham's
biography
of Kerouac.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 12:37:23 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Self-inflicted Geometry
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.91.950922102244.117721A-100000@gpu2.srv.ualberta.ca>
from "Martin Taylor"
at Sep 22, 95 10:26:47 am
> I
think Nicholas understood perfectly.
Think of it as a koan... truth can
> be
_so_ funny.
>
i did
not intend for the geometry to be thought of as torture...it was my
escape
from the mindless crap that the cathode ray tube inspires...
i did
not express myself clearly..i tend to do that... i was thinking
back to
a time when i first began to see things in a different light...
i was
not going to bother to explain myself... this used to be a warm place..
now...i'll
let it go.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 19:36:10 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
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From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: Dream film
Yeah,
Ann Charters says she has read the manuscript and it's terrible.
Dan B.
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Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 14:55:36 -0400
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From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dream film
>Last
night I was watching _Rebel Without a
Cause_ and was >imagining a
movie
with Sal Mineo as the young Allen Ginsberg >during the Columbia U days
.
I
forgot to write that the young Dennis Hopper as he appeared in _RWAC_would
have
made a great Cassady, at least physically.
Couldn't
tell if he could have acted Cassady, though......
Jules
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Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:36:48 EST
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From: Michael Heeg <mheeg@SMTPINET.ASPENSYS.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: Dream film
There you go again, why the need to to
make these ridiculous
comparisions? Please, let me know, maybe I will understand what you
are trying to do/accomplish, and will not
become irritated by these
comparisions.
______________________________
Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject:
Re: Dream film
Author: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> at SMTPINET
Date: 9/22/95 3:09 PM
>Last
night I was watching _Rebel Without a
Cause_ and was >imagining a
movie
with Sal Mineo as the young Allen Ginsberg >during the Columbia U days
.
I
forgot to write that the young Dennis Hopper as he appeared in _RWAC_would
have
made a great Cassady, at least physically.
Couldn't
tell if he could have acted Cassady, though......
Jules
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Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:23:50 -0500
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From: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: tv
Michael
Heeg and others:
In _The
Dharma Bums_, Kerouac does have Ray Smith, his narrator, does
complain
about the suburban life "and inside the little blue square of the
television,
each living family riveting its attention on probably one show;
nobody
talking" (104), echoing his earlier comment about "television sets
in each
living room with everybody looking at the same thing and thinking
the
same thing at the same time" (39). He also imagines, "The only
alternative
to
sleeping out, hopping freights, and doing what I wanted, I saw in a
vision
would be to just sit with a hundred other patients in front of a
nice
television set in a madhouse, where we could be 'supervised'"(121).
However,
one of the most charming aspects of Kerouac's narrators is their
very
human and real inconsistency. So, Ray finds himself back in Rocky Mount
on
Christmas Eve, "which I spent with a bottle of wine before the TV
enjoying
the shows" (135). We can get an idea of what kind of shows he
was
watching when he describes "a great big young cop with a gun swinging
in a
holster on his hip, all done up like on TV the Sheriff of Cochise
and
Wyatt Earp"(159). Ray also says, "Only one thing I'll say for the
people
watching television, the millions and millions of the One Eye:
they're
not hurting anyone while they're sitting in front of that Eye"
(104).
I suppose we all have our guilty pleasures, and Jack's narrators
are
always prone to admit theirs.
Good
weekends.
Michael
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Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:29:47 PDT
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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dream Movie
>Yeah,
Ann Charters says she has read the manuscript and it's terrible.
Good
for her. Unfortunately we are not in
such a position to read it and make
our own
judgements. No matter how bad it is I
know many people would love
to be
able to read it. And I think the
publisher would make good money.
I am
glad to know that the manuscript exists.
Anyone
know what the surviving author (Burroughs) has to say about this
book? Would he not want it published?
Also I
guess Lucien Carr is alive still (right?).
He might not appreciate it.
This
might be the biggest stumbling block for it to be published.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:50:51 -0700
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From: Levi Asher
<brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Dream film
In-Reply-To:
<950922145535_106134432@emout04.mail.aol.com> from "Julie
Hulvey"
at Sep 22, 95 02:55:36 pm
> I
forgot to write that the young Dennis Hopper as he appeared in _RWAC_would
>
have made a great Cassady, at least physically.
>
Couldn't tell if he could have acted Cassady, though......
No way,
much too surly. Remember, Neal was
known for his friendliness
and
charm. Does that describe Dennis
Hopper?
I do
like the idea of Sal Mineo as a young Allen.
But to me the all-time
dream
cast for either Sal Paradise/Dean Moriarty or Jack/Neal is
Montgomery
Clift/Paul Newman.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
"Way
far back in the beginning of the world was the whirlwind warning
that we would all be blown away like chips
and cry -- Men with tired
eyes realize it now, and wait to deform and
decay -- with maybe they
have the power of love yet in their hearts
just the same, I just don't
know what that word means anymore -- all I
want is an ice cream cone"
-- Jack Kerouac, 'Desolation
Angels'
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 20:55:54 -0400
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From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Fugs Discography
Comments:
cc: RHulvey@aol.com
P.
Gregory Springer asked in a recent post:
>I'm
interested in a discography of The Fugs.
I can
provide some information. [By the way, I am
posting
this under my wife's name because she is
the
subscriber to the Beat List. I read the list and
have
posted once before, but usually I lurk.]
The
following discography mostly comes from various
published
sources. In doing so, I am perpetuating
their
errors (since they often contradict themselves).
Someday
I'll be able to give the definitive (I hope)
discography,
as I am working on a major Ed Sanders
bibliography/discography/videography/etc.-ography.
But
meanwhile, and for what it's worth, I banged this
together.
The cd
re-issues, Songs in Ancient Greek, and
Best of
Ed Sanders I purchased directly from Ed.
Presumably,
they are still available from: Ed Sanders,
Box
729, Woodstock, NY 12498.
If
anyone can offer comments, corrections or additions, I would
be
extremely grateful. Please email such directly to me at
RHulvey@aol.com [as well as to the List, if you think it's
appropriate].
Thanks.
Ross
Hulvey
=================
THE
FUGS:
The
Village Fugs
(Broadside [Folkways] Records, 1965)
First
Fugs Album
[re-issue (I think) of above, often thought
to be THE first Fugs album]
(lp, ESP Records, ESP-1018, 1965)
The
Fugs First Album
[re-issue of above, with additional
tracks]
(cd, Fugs Records, 1993)
The
Fugs
[liner notes by Allen Ginsberg]
(lp, ESP Records, ESP-1028)
The
Fugs Second Album
[re-issue of above, with additional
tracks]
(cd, Fugs Records, 1993)
The ESP
Sampler
[Fugs, et al]
(lp, ESP Records, nd)
Tenderness
Junction
(lp, Reprise Records, 1968)
Virgin
Fugs
(lp, ESP Records, ESP-1038, 1968)
It
Crawled Into My Hand, Honest
(lp, Reprise Records, 1969)
The
Belle of Avenue A
(lp, Reprise Records, RS6359, 1969)
Golden
Filth
(lp, Reprise Records, 1970)
Fugs 4,
Rounders Score
[Fugs and Holy Modal Rounders]
(lp, ESP Records, ESP-2018, 1975)
Proto-Punk
(lp, PVC Records, 1983)
Refuse
to be Burnt-Out
(lp, Olufsen Records, 1984)
Star
Peace
(2 lps, New Rose Records, 1987)
Fugs
Live in Woodstock
(cd, Musik/Musik, 1989)
Real
Woodstock Festival
[should be released by now, but
haven't seen it yet]
(2 cds, Ace Records, 1995)
ED
SANDERS:
Sanders'
Truckstop
(lp, Reprise Records)
Beer
Cans on the Moon
(lp, Reprise Records)
Songs in
Ancient Greek
(cd, Olufsen Records, 1989)
The
Best of Ed Sanders
(cass., Ed Sanders, 1992)
TULI
KUPFERBERG:
No
Deposit, No Return
(lp, ESP Records, ESP-1035)
(cd, re-issue [not confirmed])
Rutles
Highway Revisited
[Tuli does "Living in Hope."
Also,
tracks by Peter Stampfel, et al]
(cd, Shimmy Disc)
PETER
STAMPFEL / HOLY MODAL ROUNDERS
[I have
an incomplete discography on Peter, also.
But I think it's too peripheral for the Beat
List,
although he's intimately connected to the
Fugs.]
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 20:55:50 -0400
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From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dream film
On 9/21, Michael Heeg wrote
>What
is it with you comparing everything to movies and T.V. shows?
I
suppose you mean the plural "you", since I didn't make the
"Seinfeld
vs. Friends" post. In fact I've seen neither show; ever since "Twin
Peaks"
went off I haven't seen too much TV. I do like movies and feel they
are a
valid art form which also interested Our Heroes -- ever heard of "Pull
my
Daisy?":).
I feel
you reacted a bit violently to my lighthearted post. But what if I
*had*
compared? It could be said that _Rebel without a Cause_, whether or not
high
art, came out of the same post WWII dissatisfaction that spawned the
Beats.
> In
most cases I believe that the written word is much stronger and > more
meaningful
than the spoken word in films or T.V.
Truisms
numb the mind, throw out yr. truisms. JK was not into truisms.
>Television
numbs the mind, throw your television out the window.
> JK
was not into T.V.
I'm not
sure about that. Not only did he appear on it, I remember reading
that
toward the end he spent a lot of time in front of the TV (although with
the
sound turned off). Sad image. I thought it was part of the legend, and
that
the Seinfeld/Friends post was a joke about that. So it didn't annoy me.
Besides,
K liked to numb his mind, just not with TV.
>He
couldn't beleive that everyone was living this life in front of a
>television, when you could be out experiencing life.
How
about in front of a computer?
>
It's just really disappointing with all of these comparisions to >movies
and
ridiculous T.V. shows
Sorry
>and
unfortunately I did see the show Friends
He
admits it! But go on, how was it?
>and
it was HORRIBLE!!! Won't make the same mistake.
Good.
Abandon all hope of being given what you need by the consensus culture.
You
will then be "beat".
Julie
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 20:57:06 -0400
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From: Laurie Syrek
<HamOnRye5@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Self-inflicted Geometry and Mediocre
Television!!!
Well,
the cathode ray tube might be filled with middle-class stereotypes and
superficial,
commercialized messages, but surely one cannot say that
television
hasn't a redeeming quality? Has anyone ever read anything by Alan
Olsen
or Chris and Debra Parr? They're out of BU, and they did some
interesting
stuff with television and modes of communication. I think it's
all too
easy to dismiss tv as crass and mediocre. Granted, Seinfeld and
Friends
may not be intellectually stimulating, but they serve as a good
example
of how the youth culture has invaded the mainstream (Do I see a Dobie
Gillis
connection?). It shows us where the higher-ups at the network place
the
intelligence of the average viewer. Plus, it gives me something to watch
while
I'm cleaning my living room. What more can I ask?
Don't
answer that last question.
Laurie
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 07:25:55 -0700
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From: Bonnie Howard
<HOWARDB@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dream film
Levi
Asher wrote:
=I do
like the idea of Sal Mineo as a young Allen.
But to me the all-time
=dream
cast for either Sal Paradise/Dean Moriarty or Jack/Neal is
=Montgomery
Clift/Paul Newman.
Sounds
decent. I take it, then, you are not too thrilled with the casting of
Brad
Pitt and Sean Penn in Coppola's upcoming film version of On the Road?
I am
new to this list, so forgive me if y'all have already discussed Coppola's
movie,
but I am curious what you all think about it. I know it's not even in
the can
yet, but what are/were your thoughts?
Cheers,
Bonnie
Howard
howardb@sonoma.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 07:49:48 -0700
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From: Bonnie Howard
<HOWARDB@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Appraisers? Help...
Hi. I
am in a bind here, and need some help, and thought of you folks. I have
come
into possession of a large amount of papers, manuscripts, chapbooks,
poems,
letters, and books (some signed first ed.'s) from the Beat era, and have
to have
the whole shebang catalogued and appraised. I live in Northern
California,
and Beat writers are not my specialty, so I'm a bit overwhelmed.
If
anyone knows of someone who can help me with this massive project, I would
be so
grateful. If you know someone or want more info, please e-mail me
privately
at: howardb@sonoma.edu
Forgive
me for cluttering up your list with a personal request, but I'm about
ready
to throw up my hands and start screaming :-)
Oh--some
of the things that have fallen into my lap are works by: Michael
McClure,
Richard Brautigan, Allen Ginsburg, Lew Welch, Philip Whalen, Gary
Snyder,
Ron Lowensohn, etc. If this is *your* area of expertise, please let me
know,
thanks.
Cheers,
Bonnie
Lee Howard
howardb@sonoma.edu
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Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 11:44:39 -0400
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From: Tony Trigilio
<atrigili@LYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dream film
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%95092212323662@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
from "Bill Gargan" at Sep
22, 95 12:04:47 pm
Bill
Gargan writes:
> It
would certainly make a sensational movie, one that I'm sure Lucien
>
Carr wouldnot be very happy about. Have
you read Aaron Latham's article
> in
New York Magazine about the murder? If
anyone needs the citation,
>
I'd be glad to look it up. I wonder whatever happened to Latham's
>
biography of Kerouac.
Bill,
if it's not too much trouble, I would be interested in the
citation. Thanks.
Tony
atrigili@lynx.neu.edu
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Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 14:21:04 -0400
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From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dream film
>No
way, much too surly. Remember, Neal was
known for his >friendliness and
charm. Does that describe Dennis Hopper?
Mmm....I'd
have to admit it doesn't. Although my husband thinks Hopper not
charmless
(though not harmless).
Earlier
today, when I was looking something else up in "Jack's Book" by Barry
Gifford
I came upon a sad passage where Ginsberg visits Neal not too long
before
he dies, and notices that "for the very first time", Neal is neither
friendly
or charming. Remarkable in such a long relationship.
I've
been commissioned to do a portrait of Clift and have been seeing his
movies
all for the first time. He would have made a beautiful Kerouac.
Julie
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 18:20:39 PST
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From: Tim Bowden
<tcbowden@NERDNOSH.ORG>
Organization:
Yucca Flats II in Felton, CA
Subject: Re: Dream film
In-Reply-To:
<199509231544.LAA07568@lynx.dac.neu.edu>
Somewhere
you write:
>
Bill Gargan writes:
>>
I wonder whatever happened to Latham's
>>
biography of Kerouac.
Good
question. I remember he was working on
the latter stages of it in
1972,
during the summer. He was visiting in
Saratoga and interviewing
Carolyn
Cassady in Monte Sereno. The immediate
disruption was with the
Charters
biog, which beat him to press. I
suspect Straight Arrow may've
rushed
_Kerouac_ a bit; I remember the early
reviews weren't favorable.
But I
was waiting for the Latham version, because I had just read
_Crazy
Sundays_ and was looking forward to the same sort of sensible
mosaic
wrought out of vivid detail. I hope it
someday becomes
available
in some form.
--
.+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=-.
|
<tcbowden@clovis.nerdnosh.org> | Clovis is the home of |
|
NERDNOSH (tm), the crackling campfire of storytellers. |
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Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 12:11:56 +1000
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From: john reeves <reeves@ODYSSEY.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Dream film
>
>
>Sounds
decent. I take it, then, you are not too thrilled with the casting of
>Brad
Pitt and Sean Penn in Coppola's upcoming film version of On the Road?
>
>I
am new to this list, so forgive me if y'all have already discussed Coppola's
>movie,
but I am curious what you all think about it. I know it's not even in
>the
can yet, but what are/were your thoughts?
Well I
for one would be interested in seeing it when it arrives...at first
glance
the casting sounds a little dubious but then i recall Kirk Douglas &
Anthony
Quimm playing Van Gogh & Gaugin so i guess Francis could pull it off.
The
major thing would be to actually capture the spirit of the
story...remembering
that the events occured in the late forties early
fifties...before
there was a fully functional myth/media culture to didtort
the
endeavours of these fellows..
>
>Cheers,
>Bonnie
Howard
>howardb@sonoma.edu
>
>
john reeves voice--61 7 38445907
HANGDOG PRODUCTIONS <?>
reeves@odyssey.com.au
http://www.odyssey.com.au/eyephon/reevhtml/reevhome.html
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