beat list october 1995

t's happening!

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Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 12:55:28 -0400

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From: Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>

Subject: InfoSeek Net Search Results: ALT-X

http://www2.infoseek.com/Titles?qt=ALT-X

did a netsearch...got this page....

tried to open http://www.altx.com

but had some network trouble....

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Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 14:34:27 -0400

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From: Rene Zamora Zepeda <Quetzal666@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Commercials

please don't refer to rollins in the same breath as kerouac and

burroughs............

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Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 14:41:29 -0400

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From: Rene Zamora Zepeda <Quetzal666@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Commercials

new bataille cologne by the house of 'de postmoderne' if you can't be a

writer at least you can smell like one......rene

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Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 14:47:51 -0400

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From: Rene Zamora Zepeda <Quetzal666@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Volvo commercial

to gusto.........

...........who cares indeed............i wonder, could kathy acker be used

for a prozac commercial?...............baudelaire for

evian?..............imagine.........................rene...................it'

s just a

commercial..............................................commerce..............

...s........ho...........r..........t.........atten..........tion...........s.

........p.........a.........n..........s........

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Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 14:53:03 -0400

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From: Rene Zamora Zepeda <Quetzal666@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: TV, Volvos, Dreams, & Jack

mac or pc?............probably a smith-corona...........at 100 words per

minute....................

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Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 14:57:16 -0400

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From: Rene Zamora Zepeda <Quetzal666@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: America

hey all,

i'm doin' a zine with a 'colonialism' theme anything and everything: rants,

poetry prose, articles, creature feature..................e-mail for more

info............deadline nov. 10............the more experimental the

better/worse.........up to y'all...................getting submissions from

all over................ciao for niao...........rene

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Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 20:23:33 GMT

Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Dan Barth <Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>

Organization: Redwood Free-Net

Subject: new Snyder book

I'm reading Gary Snyder's new book, *A Place in Space*, new and selected

essays, published by Counterpoint, a new press headed up by Jack Shoemaker,

formerly of North Point and Pantheon. I am very favorably impressed so far

(to about page 125). Snyder seems to me to just keep getting wiser and

funnier, with lots of great tidbits of lore and witty zen sayings. He's the

prime example of McClure's assertion that beat lit. is the literary wing of

the environmental movement. Snyder writes a bit about the beat generation in

this book, never capitalizes it or makes it a Big Deal but treats it as

another of many manifestations of the Great Subculture or "third force" that

runs throughout history. He writes on a solar powered Mac, by the way.

Dan B.

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Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 12:48:04 PDT

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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject: One breath

RZZ>please don't refer to rollins in the same breath as kerouac and

>burroughs............

Deep breath, Kerouac Burroughs and Rollins, exhale.

Henry was talked about here for a bit a while ago as I recall. I brought him

up recently because he advertises Macs in the ads "What's on my Powerbook".

I used to play in a band that played with Black Flag and always will remember

what Henry did one night. I saw there was an alt.fan.henryrollins group so

I posted this true story there. Maybe some people here would be intersted

as well.

Here it is:

I saw this newsgroup so I thought I'd tell you all a story. I think you'd be

interested in hearing it if anyone is. It concerns why I am a fan of Henry

Rollins.

I am not a fan of Henry's singing. Personally I don't think it was very good.

I'm not a fan of his writing. I don't really know anything about it so I

couldn't say if it's good or bad. I did look at Get In The Van a little bit

in the store. I looked at the San Francisco passages in the early 80's. I

noticed that he made a mistake. When he was talking about Flipper and how

those guys freaked him out he got it wrong when he called Ted Falconi Flipper's

bass player. Ted played guitar. Will Shatter (Russell Wilkinson R.I.P) was

the bass player. My being a fan has nothing to do with his "artistic"

endeavors. I do think it is impressive what he has done in publishing so much

stuff, he certainly is prolific.

But I am a fan of Henry for something that took place in San Francisco in the

early 80's ('81 maybe?) outside the Mabuhay Gardens. It was a friday or

saturday night and Black Flag was headling at the Mabuhay, which they might

have been calling the Fab Mab at the time. My band was the opening band, then

was Husker Du (this was their first San Fran show), then the great Minutemen

followed by the headliner Black Flag. This was Black Flag's first show in SF

with their new singer Henry. Dez had moved on to guitar after Henry jumped

ship from his DC band. Henry was kind of psycho back then. Psycho in that he

didn't ever talk. He had a totally shaved head, smooth no nubs, and crazy

eyes. Like I said he never seemed to talk. During the Minutemen's set he

stood at the side of the stage and played air drums throughout the whole set.

Now here's why I am a fan of Henry's. During the course of the night, a bunch

of us were hanging out outside in the front of the Mab. The Mabuhay was (is?)

on Broadway in San Francisco. On weekend nights there was always a lot of

traffic so the cars were stop and go with more stop than go. I don't remember

how it began but two guys in the middle of the street among the stalled traffic

(not punk rock guys from the Mab, just regular weekend partyer types), these

two guys started arguing and yelling at each other. Their argument escalated

and their voices got louder and they got closer to each other until they

were face to face in the middle of Broadway. It was very clear they were about

to begin fighting. Who knows what would happen after that. When what do I see

but Henry snaking his way through the cars, coming up behind the one guy about

to fight with the other guy. Henry quietly and quickly snuck up behind him

and grabbed him in what was probably a wrestling hold of some sort. He pinned

back his arms immobilizing him, lifted him off his feet and walked backward

with him, effectivley separating the two combatants. This broke up the

altercation and the two guys went on their respective ways without any damage

or bloodshed. Needless to say this was one of the coolest and bravest things

I've ever seen.

This is why I'll always be a fan of Henry Rollins. I don't think much of him

artistically, but then again I don't know that much about his writings. Maybe

I'll go read something by him to see what he writes.

I have always remembered this and wanted to tell people about this event. I

figured a newsgroup called alt.fan.henryrollins would be a good place to tell

it.

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Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 17:17:45 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

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From: Rene Zamora Zepeda <Quetzal666@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: One breath

yeah well,

my brother partied with him in los angeles back in the black flag days....ho

hum ......he's now dead......an' had a lot more to say say than that

poseur..........rene....even now......too bad my brother didn't have the

money to publish his own words, aye?.......

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Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 19:56:35 -0400

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From: w.britton1@GENIE.COM

Subject: QUERY

As a new subscriber to Beat Gen, I'm not sure who the readership is,

but I thought I'd post the following queries and see what comes out of =

the

ether:

1. I have completed the MS of a book, Whimtans=1B[D=1B[D=1B[D=1B[D=1B[D=7F=

=7F=7F=7F=1B[D=1B[C=7Ftman's Shadow: Music, Media, and M=1B[D=1B[D

=1B[C=1B[C=1B[DMulticulturalism. It traces the Whitman tradition throu=

gh Pound and Williams

and then deeply into the Beats, primarilly Ginsberg, Kerouac, Burroughs, =

and

Snyder, although I touch on Corso, Ferlinghetti, Anne Waldman and others.

It examines how these authors use music, recording technology, and inte=

rests in cross cultural

influences.

The book then examines the Whitman/Beat tradition in Native American =

and African American

literatue, examines this tradion in the poetry of Bob Dylan and Jim

Morrison, and then branches off into works by writers such as Charles Buk=

owski, performance artist

Laouie Landerson, and others. What I need is potential publishers; most =

seem to think

such a project is not marketable. Any ideas?

2. Part of this book discusses the recorded projects of the Beats,

and I'm trying to be comprehensive. I'm hopefull I know of all Kerouc

recordings, both sound and visual, and most of Tinsberg's. I know of som=

e Burroughs

but very little else. Any listings you can post would be helpful.

I too very much like Snyder's new book, A Place in Space,

especially the latter two thirds which are both deeper and look to the =

future.

He's as important an essayist as poet, worthy of comparison to Ralph Wald=

o Emerson.

I highly reccomend it. It's a positive voice in a cynical culture.

Can write me here or at W. B=1B[D=1B[D=7F=1B[CRITTON1!=1B[D=7F@GENIE.C=

[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B=

[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[A=1B[A=1B[B=1B[B=1B=

[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B=

[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[K=1B[C=1B[C

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Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 17:36:49 PDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

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From: "Bruce Greeley (Echo News Service)" <v-bgree@MICROSOFT.COM>

Subject: FW: other recordings, spoken or sung (fwd)

Comments: cc: CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU

> From: CLAY VAUGHAN <CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>

> I'd like to think I keep up with recordings that are out there,

> There's that Phillip Glass thing, HYDROGEN JUKEBOX, Steve Swallow's

> record of music set to the words of Robt Creeley (I forget the name

> of the voice, is it Carla Bley?)

*** Sheila Jordan actually

that old

> Mark Murphy jazz thing, BOP FOR KEROUAC (old, and I'm not sure it's

> weathered well, I haven't given it a listen in a long while)...

***Mark Murphy has a second disc with "Kerouac" in the title too,

relevant songs there

I just put together a cassette for Levi of beat related music by a

whole bunch of folks,

including the originals,

and, Clay, you mentioned a Terry riley disc: can you give us more specifics?,

cheers,

Greeley not Creeley

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Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 00:05:03 -0400

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From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: One breath

Oh, for heaven's sake.

Is there anyone in the world except Jack, Bill, Allen and Gary (and they

ain't/were not perfect) that can be brought up without someone flaming?

Why are so many people so judgemental?

Jack even liked Ike. I'm no saint but if I've gotten anything from beatdom

it's that everyone is beat, as in beatific - beauty within, beauty as a

child, beauty in the soul. Of course, some people get twisted and lose the

light, Hitler for example, Nixon was never high on my list, or Stalin. But

why flame anyone unless there is a reason, unless they have really done

something to lose thier humanity - and I don't mean making a quick buck on

some ad for the Gap or Apple.

I got flamed on another newsgroup for lamenting the death of Jerry Garcia and

pointing out his kinship to many beats. It didn't ruin my day (the day was

already ruined) but why? Aren't we all beautiful, at least in part?

I'm not a particular Henry Rollins fan although I'd love to see him sometime.

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Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:05:31 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

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From: Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>

Subject: Re: One breath

In-Reply-To: <951025000502_132224616@emout05.mail.aol.com> from "Howard Park"

at Oct 25, 95 00:05:03 am

hmmm....i sort of liked this one...

> Oh, for heaven's sake.

> Is there anyone in the world except Jack, Bill, Allen and Gary (and they

> ain't/were not perfect) that can be brought up without someone flaming?

there are so many beautiful people....if we choose to open our minds and

our eyes..... i think that's why i like neal..... he sure did like people....

> Why are so many people so judgemental?

wow..that's a tough one... i think people judge because they are afraid..

... so they get real nasty, you know... start hurting others because it's

easy to do.... it's real hard to sit back...and open one's mind.....

> Jack even liked Ike. I'm no saint but if I've gotten anything from beatdom

> it's that everyone is beat, as in beatific - beauty within, beauty as a

> child, beauty in the soul.

saints are highly overrated.... *smile*... i mean, it's like we

put beautiful and kind people up on this pedestal...like jesus, you know...

and he was just as human as the next guy...he just knew how to love....

but then they made him a god...and took away that human aspect..... why

should anyone think they can be like jesus or any other god when they are

only human? so they punish themselves for not being gods...and they

punish others for not believing in these gods....and so few

even try to be this way...to be kind.... to give.....to love....

> Of course, some people get twisted and lose the

> light, Hitler for example, Nixon was never high on my list, or Stalin. But

> why flame anyone unless there is a reason, unless they have really done

> something to lose thier humanity - and I don't mean making a quick buck on

> some ad for the Gap or Apple.

flaming never changed perspective.... it usually irritates the one being

flamed.... you piss off a guy like hitler...do you really think he's

going to look in the mirror and say..."hmm...maybe they are right"

so let it go....can't control it...so don't try...

> I got flamed on another newsgroup for lamenting the death of Jerry Garcia and

> pointing out his kinship to many beats. It didn't ruin my day (the day was

> already ruined) but why? Aren't we all beautiful, at least in part?

i feel for you man....never listened to the dead......but there are lots

of angry people in this world.... jerry wasn't one of them... that's all

i need to know....keep the spirit alive....

peace

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Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 16:31:56 CDT

Reply-To: i12bent@hum.auc.dk

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: bs at AUC <i12bent@HUM.AUC.DK>

Subject: Ginsberg on talk show

Last night AG was a featured guest on the "Selina Scott Show" which is

broadcast on NBC/Superchannel here in Europe. It was about twenty minutes

of chat plus a performance by AG of a rap he referred to as one he had

performed together with Paul McCartney at the RAH a few days earlier. The

chat was semi-interesting, including some historical remarks about banned

books trial (Burroughs etc) and some of AG's family history. European

subscribers might want to on the alert for re-runs of the show, probably

late-night, weekends, on NBC/Superchannel via cable or satellite...

Regards,

bs@AUC

Dept. of Languages and Intercultural Studies

Aalborg University, Denmark

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Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 12:11:36 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

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From: Jeremy Ocean <JeremyO@SMTP.IX.NETCOM.COM>

Subject: Pull My Daisy (Robert Frank)

-- [ From: Jeremy Ocean * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

All:

First off, just wondering if this mailing list is available in a Digest form

(big bunch 'o messages in a single e-mail to me), i didn't see anything

refering to it. About how much traffic does the list get <messages per day?

If anyone is interested in seeing 'Pull my Daisy', the Robert Frank film

with the beats in it e-mail me, oh yea, you have to be in the New Jersey

area, specifically S.Jersey. It's possible that I will be holding a showing

of it at a college down here. Any info on the movie or Robert Frank in

perticular would be much appreciated. I'm just started getting into Frank

this week, and I'm hungry for info. Take care...

JeremyO

<JeremyO@ix.netcom.com>

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Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 16:20:28 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

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From: Laurie Syrek <HamOnRye5@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Pull My Daisy (Robert Frank)

Debra Parr had a showing, last spring, at Webster University in St. Louis. It

was quite a grand event. I never realized how goofy everyone looked!!

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Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 19:40:19 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

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From: Carl A Biancucci <carl@WORLD.STD.COM>

Subject: Re: America

In-Reply-To: <951024145716_131728562@mail04.mail.aol.com> from "Rene Zamora

Zepeda" at Oct 24, 95 02:57:16 pm

rene...send more info re:zine\

carl@world.std.com

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Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 19:48:40 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

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From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: QUERY

>From everything I have heard, the beats are white-hot in publishing circles

although only titles like On The Road truely mass-market. The Beats have

been adopted by influential segments of "Gereration X" as Time magazine might

describe it.

Contact some more publishers!

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Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 21:21:33 -0400

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From: Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject: The Commerce of Kerouac

In the latest issue of Time magazine that I received in the mail today -

there is an insert from Volvo that ties in with their TV campaign. The front

of the ad booklet shows scenes from the ads - the third scene shows the guy

holding an "old" copy of On The Road.

The text inside reads: "Always the romantic, John remembered to bring ON THE

ROAD. Not one of those new printings he'd seen in the bookstore at the mall,

but the original one that he had stored away in the attic."

The only problem here is that the picture of the book is bogus - there never

was an edition of ON THE ROAD that looked like that - with those graphics

ande colored covers - the artwork of this supposed "original" edition was

made up by some ad guy a few months ago!

Couldn't a big agency like the one that created this On The Road Volvo ad

find a true first edition of On The Road to use in the commercials? What were

they up to? And then I remembered:

This recent spurt of Kerouac in commercials is not new - before Kerouac

wearing levis and this Volvo ad, there was an interesting case of Kerouac

commercialism - In 1986 (almost 10 years ago already!), the Banana Republic

clothing company, based in San Francisco, started marketing a leather "On The

Road" jacket for $239.00 in their mail-order catalogue. The catalogue page

not only highlighted the leather jacket but dedicated it "for Jack Kerouac"

and there was ad copy written in the style of an On The Road passage

describing the hipness of the jacket. The following comment appeared after

the Kerouacesque copy: "When our writer slipped on this jacket and sat

behind the wheel of his typewriter, the spirit of Jack Kerouac hitched a

ride-Ed."

To top it all off - next to the jacket picture was a reproduction of the

first edition of On The Road published by Viking Press in 1957.

Some heads must of rolled at the ad agency since the dust jacket of On The

Road was copyrighted material. and could it be that it was used without

permission of the publisher in the mail-order catalogue?

When the next issue of Banana Republic's catalogue came out -

not surprisingly, the picture of the Viking On The Road first edition was

absent from the page. Instead, there was an endorsement from none other than

Lawrence Ferlinghetti who in a facsimile signed paragraph called this leather

On The Road jacket

a "dream raiment" and said that with the jacket on, "I feel like Jack Kerouac

himself being driven like a king in a 1950s limousine

by Neal Cassady through the Great American night." YUK!!!

Come on, Larry! What a bunch of crap!!

If we as a group are getting sick of seeing all the Beats in these ads -

don't worry. Soon enough, Madison Avenue will realize that these commercials

are not effective and do not sell the advertised products - the only sales

that may increase because of increased public awareness are the sales of the

authors' books.

Any comments?

Jeffrey Weinberg

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Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 23:29:08 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Douglas Karpp <GustoEater@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: The Commerce of Kerouac

If I were an ad executive, I am sure I would have read the beats at some

point in my life, (after all executives are not stupid nor uneducated) and

would be real proud to display something from my youth in my campaigns to

sell things. No matter what I do in my life, I hope to bring some awareness

to the people around me of the beats, these guys on Madison avenue as

everyone keeps saying just have a far greater circulation than I ever will.

Thanks for listening to me again. Does anyone agree with me?

gustoeater

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Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 23:47:57 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Peter McGahey <PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>

What's the address for Levi's website - litkicks?

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Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 08:50:54 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

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From: "Stedman, Jim" <JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>

Subject: Re: The Commerce of Kerouac

In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of Wed, 25 Oct 1995 20:21:33 EST

What a great memory, Jeff W.!

I've always been a bit suspicious of Ferlinghetti... after all, _he_ was

making money off these cats! I never liked his "stumble bum" assessment

of Kerouac-on-the-scene. I didn't feel right about him. The blurb for

bananas fits the picture I have in mind.

By the way, Jeff... any chance that Water Row had/has a first edition

(signed, of course) of OTR that could have been leased to Volvo???

Just wonderin'

Jim Stedman

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Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 10:05:19 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: The Commerce of Kerouac

Jim - Thanks for the reply -

We don't have a signed first edition in stock at this time but we do have a

fabulous facsimile reprint that Volvo could have ordered.

It looks exactly like the real thing, dust jacket and all (except for a line

on the copyright page). A great Xmas gift!

But Volvo probably inquired about using the real book as an ad image and

didn't want to pay the fee to Viking? (conjecture, only)

The one they used in the ad appears to have been produced on a color HP

printer.

Jeffrey

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Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 07:16:30 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>

Subject: Re: The Commerce of Kerouac

In-Reply-To: <951025232906_77703428@emout05.mail.aol.com> from "Douglas Karpp"

at Oct 25, 95 11:29:08 pm

> If I were an ad executive, I am sure I would have read the beats at some

> point in my life, (after all executives are not stupid nor uneducated) and

In my work on Wall Street I've met some executives who are very stupid (though,

unfortunately, highly educated) but REGARDLESS OF THAT ... I couldn't help

bringing up the interesting factoid that several beat writers were involved

in the ad business. I can't remember (I'm at work, don't have books with

me) what position he held exactly, but Allen Ginsberg was doing something

in the advertising business (I think he was a marketing researcher?) before

he become a famous poet, and I remember being amused by hearing that he'd

worked on the "brush-a brush-a brush-a" ad campaign for Ipana Toothpaste,

which was featured in the movie version of "Grease."

The poet Lew Welch was working in advertising in Chicago when his college

friends Philip Whalen and Gary Snyder read at the famous 1955 Six Gallery

poetry reading. He quit and left for San Francisco as soon as he heard that

"something was happening" out there. It's been said that he came up with the

line "Raid kills bugs dead." Can anyone verify this?

Just as college graduates gravitate towards software and multimedia these days,

I think they gravitated towards the ad business, and related fields, back

in the fifties. Anyway, just more trivia ...

For the person who asked for the URL for my website, it's in my .sig below.

Thanks for asking.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com

Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html

(the beat literature web site)

Queensboro Ballads: http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/

(my fantasy folk-rock album)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Should I pursue a path so twisted?

Or should I crawl, defeated and gifted?"

-- Patti Smith

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 10:26:25 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: otr dust jacket

While I'm not lucky enough to have a first edition of OTR, I did manage to come

upon a tattered dust jacket. I can let Volvo have it at a very reasonable pric

e should they be interested.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 10:26:49 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Kirsten A. Hirsch"

<Kirsten=A.=Hirsch%Commons%USC@COMNET.USC.VCU.EDU>

Subject: The COmmerce of Kerouac

Forwarded to: smtp[BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@Gems.VCU.EDU]

cc:

Comments by: Kirsten A. Hirsch@Commons@USC

-------------------------- [Original Message] -------------------------

What edition of the Banana Republic catalog are you referring to? I have all

of 86 in my office (don't ask why) and I can't seem to find the LF

endorsement or the picture of the ON THE ROAD jacket cover. I found the

jacket though...

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 11:27:46 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Chris Ellis <ellisc_1@TYSON.COM>

Subject: New Guy Query

Hello, I'm new here and was wondering if anyone ever discusses the likes of

Alan Watts, Gary Snyder, or the oldest of the Beats, Chuang Tsu?

- ellisc

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 09:30:55 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject: Re: New Guy Query

>Hello, I'm new here and was wondering if anyone ever discusses the likes of

>Alan Watts, Gary Snyder, or the oldest of the Beats, Chuang Tsu?

>- ellisc

There was a guy on this list who used to try and discuss Chuang Tzu. I

think his name was Frank. He lives in Taiwan. He hasn't been around

lately. For some reason when he tried to talk about Chuang Tzu or write

poems, people here told him to shut up.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 12:38:50 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: John Dinsmore <DinsmoreJ@AOL.COM>

Subject: Literary Kicks

Comments: cc: brooklyn@netcom.com

Levi Asher,

When I saw your post this am, it reminded me to get a post off to you

regarding

Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html

(the beat literature web site)

This is an outstanding piece of work on the net, and fills me with beaucoup

d'info every time I'm in it. Thanks for your excellent work.

E me your snail address and I'll send you something of possible interest.

John Dinsmore & Associates, Booksellers

1037 Castleton Way South

Lexington, KY 40517-2724 USA

(606) 271-8042 Daily 9:00 AM to 7:00 PM Eastern Time

email: dinsmorej@aol.com

Modern First Editions and Fine Art

"So many books, so little time."

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 11:44:00 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Chris Ellis <ellisc_1@TYSON.COM>

Subject: Re: New Guy Query

>>There was a guy on this list who used to try and discuss Chuang Tzu. I

>think his name was Frank. He lives in Taiwan. He hasn't been around

>lately. For some reason when he tried to talk about Chuang Tzu or write

>poems, people here told him to shut up.

That's too bad. I think the Lacquer Garden man had influence on many

Beat-minded folks.

Frank, you still around?

- ellisc

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 12:58:30 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: The COmmerce of Kerouac

The BR catalogue with Ferlinghetti is Catalogue number 27. Spring 1986. Page

11.

The BR catalogue with Viking OTR picture should have been issue number 26,

although I do not have the whole catalogue, just the page numbered 17.

Hope this is helpful.

Jeffrey

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 13:01:16 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: otr dust jacket

The point of the dust jacket substitute in the ad, I'm pretty sure, must be

that the ad agency for Volvo did not want to pay for the right to show the

real jacket (o they were flatly refused by the publisher, perhaps?)This is a

very important point since the decision to use a bogus book jacket must have

been based solely on money.

Jeffrey

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 13:02:05 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Karen L. Becker" <DustyJ437@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Kerouac: rolling in Grave?

I made the original post and I must say that digust at the comercialization

of Art was not my only reaction.

I know who Kerouac was, and have read (sevearl times, in fact) _OTR_. But As

I watched the commercial over & over again, I placed myself in the position

of the average American with an 8th grade (sorry to say) reading level who

didn't know Jack Kerouac from a Jack O' Lantern. Then I was just confused?

How does this rambling albeit beautiful soliloquy convince anyone to buy

this car?

What were the ad execs thinking? Where's the selling point here? What do

these words, no matter whose they are, have to do with an automobile?

Thoughts?

DustyJade -- Always dream & drive

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 14:56:33 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Kirsten A. Hirsch"

<Kirsten=A.=Hirsch%Commons%USC@COMNET.USC.VCU.EDU>

Subject: Re: Kerouac: rolling in Grave?

You are right that the Volvo marketing ad will not work, and I thought I

would give my two bits as to why...

Why does Volvo even attempt this plan?

Well, I may get flamed for this but I think it's been said before. Generation

X (whether you feel it's dead, alive, plain stupid or plain brilliant) has

built it's heroes out of tv, movie, music, and general pop culture characters

much more than it has leaders, politicians, etc. The target audience that

Volvo is trying to reach is Gen X...get out of college and have your rich

parents buy you a Volvo so you can get out on the road of life, wear flannel,

be wild and crazy...before you settle. And when you do settle, hey, you'll

have this great old Volvo to cart the kids around in...

I'm an X-er and I am damn proud of it. You know why? Because WE KNOW we are

being marketed too..we can smell it a mile away. We know that they think that

we think that Kerouac was this cool hip guy and if you paste his name and his

words and his voice on a car than we will want to have that car because

that'll mean we are just as cool and just as hip as Kerouac himself...and

that in itself, we find laughable. So what do we do? We buy something

completely different than a Volvo, or better yet HITCH A RIDE and know that

NOW we are as cool and hip as Kerouac...(just for the record, I market

products to x-ers at a university,so I have this real twisted "both sides of

the tracks" view on things...not that I'm an expert, I'm just enveloped by

this stuff and these arguements all the time)

What kills me, is that somebody came into the meeting for this ad campaign

and said something to the effect of "Okay, here's my angle. From my research

I am seeing that Kerouac and beat lit. is going through a resurrection of

sorts with the Gen x-ers and I may have my facts wrong here, but didn't

Kerouac write a book called ON THE ROAD? Get it? On the road...in a

volvo...anybody following me here?"

-Kirsten

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 16:10:32 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Chris Ellis <ellisc_1@TYSON.COM>

Subject: Re: New Guy Poem

Hey Frank,

We were meant to be happy, whatever our faces show,

If we remove the skin, and observe the skull, it is smiling.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 21:03:13 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Bernard Moore <UnderToad2@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: The Commerce of Kerouac

This is my first posting. Hope it is done correctly.

Regarding the use of Kerouac and the target market for the Volvo ad

campaign, I think the advertisers may be approaching things from a

"psychographic" or "values" point of view.

It may not be that Kerouac, per se, is at all what the advertisers are

interested in, but rather what he is perceived to stand for: freedom,

self-expression, individuality, etc. And the targeted audience is probably

not Gen-X, (how can they afford a $33K car?) but affluent Baby-Boomers now

facing something of a mid-life crisis.......and want to find and experience

"values" they deem important, (i.e. individuality and freedom) NOW in a way

THEY can now afford. Kerouac's "Road" is an apt metaphor (since they are

selling cars) to make the transition between perceived "values" and targeted

market.

If I was making the ad campaign pitch, this would have been my spin on it.

Besides, I've driven an 850 Turbo (but wouldn't buy one) and it IS a rocket

ship!

Also, regarding the dust jackets and covers on 1st edition OTR.......is the

photo on page 163 of Tom Clark's bio of Kerouac what it should look like in

the commerical?

Enjoying the postings and points of view.

Ben

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 21:26:01 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: The Commerce of Kerouac

Ben: Yes, the dust jacket pictured in Tom Clark's bio is the first edition of

OTR.

Jeffrey

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 22:20:07 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Jeremy Ocean <JeremyO@SMTP.IX.NETCOM.COM>

Subject: set beat-l digest

-- [ From: Jeremy Ocean * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

set beat-l digest

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 06:44:02 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Rene Zamora Zepeda <Quetzal666@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: otr dust jacket

can't afford a volvo....however i do remember reading 'on the road' in a

glorious thunder shower in berlin.............the combo of the two led to a

skinny dipping session and (gasp) riding the s-bahn w/o paying the

fare..........................................................................

..........................rene

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 20:29:39 GMT

Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Dan Barth <Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>

Organization: Redwood Free-Net

Subject: Re: The Commerce of Kerouac

Yeah, Levi, there's a real tradition of literary men working in advertising in

the U. S. I believe it was an advertising job that Sherwood Anderson walked

away from when he began writing, and F. Scott Fitzgerald is author of the

famous line: "We keep you clean in Muscatine." Hey, everybody's got to pay

the rent.

Dan B.

=========================================================================

Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 08:09:55 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Ralph Virgo <rvirgo@IX.NETCOM.COM>

Subject: Re: otr dust jacket

You wrote:

>The point of the dust jacket substitute in the ad, I'm pretty sure,

must be

>that the ad agency for Volvo did not want to pay for the right to show

the

>real jacket (o they were flatly refused by the publisher,

perhaps?)This is a

>very important point since the decision to use a bogus book jacket

must have

>been based solely on money.

>Jeffrey

Maybe. Perhaps, instead, they were on a tight timeframe and (real or

imagined) there was not enough time to get permission. After all,

getting permission involves working with outside people and processes,

while something like the HP printer version could be knocked out

in-house pretty fast.

Ralph

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 18:23:37 PST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Bill Mundt <bmundt@MUNDT.SC.TI.COM>

Subject: Re: America

Rene,

Can you send some more details on your request.

Thanks,

Bill Mundt

-------------------------------------

E-mail: bmundt@MUNDT.sc.ti.com

Date: 08/11/94

Time: 12:45:52

This message was sent by Chameleon

-------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 07:10:11 -0800

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>

Subject: Terry Southern

According to the Times, erstwhile 60's writer and Beat comrade Terry Southern

just died at the age of 71, while on the way to the screenwriting course he

taught at Columbia.

Any Southern remembrances out there? My favorite book of his was Red-Dirt

Marijuana and Other Tales, mostly a collection of magazine pieces. He

also wrote the screenplays for "Dr. Strangelove" and "Easy Rider."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com

Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html

(the beat literature web site)

Queensboro Ballads: http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/

(my fantasy folk-rock album)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Should I pursue a path so twisted?

Or should I crawl, defeated and gifted?"

-- Patti Smith

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 10:56:42 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Terry Southern

>Any Southern remembrances out there?

As for memories of Southern, I'm a bit too young. But I've been steeped in Ed

Sanders' work this fall, and two days ago read the Terry Southern chapter in

Sanders' hilarious _Shards of God_, which takes place at the 68 Demo

convention in Chicago. As to Southern's activities in that chapter, I'll but

point you to the text,

saying only that he admirably maintains the novel's high moral tone.

This morning I remembered that I have the issue of Esquire featuring

convention reportage by Southern, Burroughs, Jean Genet

and John Sack. I dug it out and read the Southern first. It was his assigned

task to cover the absurdity of the event; he was described as the "American

author most capable of handling frenzy on a gigantic scale," yet the violence

level sickened ( and fascinated) him. In the last paragraphs of the article,

Southern is sitting in a bar with William Styron, John Marquand Jr. and a

middle aged man in a Hubert Humphrey banded straw hat, watching cops club

kids:

"Those damn kids, he ( Humphrey man) muttered, "I haven't seen a clean one

yet. Then he looked back out into the street where, at that moment, a flying

squad of blue helmets and gas masks, clubs swinging, charged straight into a

crowd obviously of bystanders.

"Hell," he grunted, "I'd just as soon live in one of those damn police states

as put up with that kind of thing".

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 12:02:13 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: Terry Southern

If I remember correctly, Terry Southern has some nice scenes in "Burroughs

The Movie." Maybe I'll take a look at them tonight.

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 10:36:41 -0800

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Gene Dinielli <gene_dinielli@QMBRIDGE.CALSTATE.EDU>

Subject: Beat LitServe

Subject: Time:11:34 AM

OFFICE MEMO Beat LitServe Date:10/31/95

I would like to subscribe to your list on Beat Literature.

Gene Dinielli

gene_dinielli@qmbridge.calstate.edu

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 13:54:15 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: Re: Beat LitServe

In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 31 Oct 1995 10:36:41 -0800 from

<gene_dinielli@QMBRIDGE.CALSTATE.EDU>

To subscribe to Beat-l, send mail to listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu. In the

body of your mail type: subscribe beat-l first name last name.

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 14:11:10 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "J. Darren Bishop" <URJTVAB@IUP.BITNET>

Organization: Indiana University of Pennsylvania

Subject: Re: Terry Southern

Can anyone give me more information on "Burroughs the Movie?" I would

appreciate anything that would lead me to it. Thank you

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 14:42:11 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: Re: Terry Southern

In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 31 Oct 1995 14:11:10 -0500 from <URJTVAB@IUP>

On Tue, 31 Oct 1995 14:11:10 -0500 J. Darren Bishop said:

>Can anyone give me more information on "Burroughs the Movie?" I would

>appreciate anything that would lead me to it. Thank you

Burroughs: the Movie. Giorno Poetry Systems Institute, c1985. 87 minutes.

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 12:00:53 -0800

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject: Re: Terry Southern

I must say when I saw Levi's message about Southern dying the song "If you

want it, here it is. I can get it" immediately began to run through my

mind. I had read in the paper that Southern died but that didn't kick in

the Badfinger association.

This song was the "theme song" of a movie called the Magic Christian that

starred Ringo Starr. It was based on a Southern book and the screenplay

was also probably written by Southern (I don't know though). Starr was in

another Southern movie called Candy. I remember a scene from Magic

Christian with John Cleese pre-Monty Python. Cleese played a snooty art

dealer and Ringo Starr as the richest man alive bought an old painting.

After he bought it he took a pair of scissors and cut out a face in the

painting and discarded the rest of it to the apoplectic gasp of Cleese--cue

Badfinger theme music (written by Paul McCartney).

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 20:36:58 GMT

Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Dan Barth <Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>

Organization: Redwood Free-Net

Subject: Re: Terry Southern

Southern read at the NYU Beat Lit. conference in May of '94. David Amram and

his quintet were playing and some old guy was sitting on the piano bench

doing nothing. I was wondering who the old guy was. Then he got up to read.

It was Southern, looking like the ghost of Paris past. He had already had one

stroke I believe. He read a story from *Red Dirt Marijuana and Other Tastes.*

It was great to see a living legend in the flesh and hear him read, like

seeing Fats Domino in New Orleans and hearing him sing "Blueberry Hill."

Dan B.

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 19:00:27 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: SangreToro@AOL.COM

Subject: alan watts

I had been trying to get a discussion going about Alan Watts in some other

list (i now unsubscribed fro almost all of them). I'd be interested in

discussing him and his works. Paul