Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 13:13:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Kirsten A. Hirsch"
<Kirsten=A.=Hirsch%Commons%USC@COMNET.USC.VCU.EDU>
Subject: Baraka
I saw
Baraka read last year in Richmond, VA and was not all that impressed. I
think
the reading was tainted by the write up in the program which stressed
that he
had "denounced" the beats and was born again into his African-
American
heritage and that he was not the same man who married a white woman
(which
he did) in the 1950's.
I just
don't understand why he had to throw the entire part of his life that
was
"beat" out the window in order to appreciate his heritage. I found
that
very
disappointing.
Kirsten
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 08:49:57 GMT
Reply-To: simon@okotie.demon.co.uk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Simon Okotie
<simon@OKOTIE.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: CHANCE???
In your
message dated Tuesday 28, November 1995 you wrote :
> I
believe...that there is no such thing as chance. Everything stems from some
>
sort of experience. Our whole life has
been experience after experience. If
> he
says that it is chance it is probably a subconcious memory or experience >
>
that is being written down onto his
paper.
There
is nothing *but* chance in life. Life
is chance. OK, it may be that what
is
'experience' stems from a chance happening to ourselves or to our ancestors
but it
is (was) chance. It was chance that
your parents met one another (not
meant
as a flame!)...
I'd
like to expand on this later.
--
Simon
Okotie
e-mail:
simon@okotie.demon.co.uk
tel: +181 830 3604
22 The
Avenue
Queen's
Park
London
NW6 7YD
UK
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 14:11:04 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Bryan
<Christopher_Bryan@BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: me and Cezanne
In-Reply-To: <951202181248_123181710@mail06.mail.aol.com>
$12.95...SNAPSHOT
POETICS...ginsberg authored... 1993/4 was publication
date...if
you can't find it at the bookstore of your choice, go to a national
chain
like Barnes & Noble or BDalton or something and ask them to look on the
books
in print list and order one for you...I work at a bookstore and i've done
this
for people all the time
CHRIS
On Sat,
02 Dec 1995 18:12:49 -0500 BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (BEAT-L: Beat
Generation
List) wrote:
>More
about the photo collection, please! Where can I get it, how much does it
>cost,
etc.... Thanks! - Liz
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 14:13:53 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Bryan
<Christopher_Bryan@BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: Leroi Jones
In-Reply-To: <9512031818.AA14023@cabell.VCU.EDU>
and the
fact that he [Baraka] hates Stanley Crouch, outspoken cultural critic
and
former VILLAGE VOICE writer and present collaborator with Wynton Marsalis,
is a
definite turn-off...
On Sun,
03 Dec 1995 13:13:42 -0500 BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (BEAT-L: Beat
Generation
List) wrote:
>I
saw Baraka read last year in Richmond, VA and was not all that impressed. I
>think
the reading was tainted by the write up in the program which stressed
>that
he had "denounced" the beats and was born again into his African-
>American
heritage and that he was not the same man who married a white woman
>(which
he did) in the 1950's.
>
>I
just don't understand why he had to throw the entire part of his life that
>was
"beat" out the window in order to appreciate his heritage. I found
that
>very
disappointing.
>
>Kirsten
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 14:20:14 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Bryan
<Christopher_Bryan@BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: grohl
Comments:
To: "L-Soft list server at The City University of NY (1.8b)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <01HYDGM33TBMAUXJ2J@baylor.edu>
LIZ:
if you
could, please send info on mag re: naropa pronto
CHRIS
On Sat,
02 Dec 1995 17:59:59 -0500 BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (BEAT-L: Beat
>Generation
List) wrote:
>
>>The
school is the Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poets, a division of the
>>Naropa
Institute in Boulder. Ginsberg helped found it in 1974 (I think).
>>Ginsberg
is on the Board, but is not currently teaching. In 1994, Naropa
>>hosted
a tribute to Ginsberg called "Beats and Other Rebel Angels." There's
a
>>very
good article about it in the July 1994 issue of Shambhala Sun. In
>>includes
an article written by Ginsberg, several pictures of the Beat
>>fellows,
and poetry by people from the Kerouac School. Let me know if you
>>want
more information on how to get this mag.
>>
Namaste, Liz
>>
>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 15:47:59 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Eckert, Molly K"
<MKECKERT@CCC-S.CEDARCREST.EDU>
Subject: Re: me and Cezanne
In-Reply-To: <910AC23001C93A7C@-SMF->
CHRIS
What
does this have to do with Cezanne???
Molly
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 15:49:52 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Eckert, Molly K"
<MKECKERT@CCC-S.CEDARCREST.EDU>
Subject: Re: CHANCE??? (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <DCE3C13001C93A7C@-SMF->
DEAR
TED
I am
not trying to beat anyone over the head.
I am just trying to
express
my opinions of what I believe chance to be.
This expression
stems
from ideas that I have learned in both literature and art classes
MOLLY
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 19:58:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Carl A Biancucci
<carl@WORLD.STD.COM>
Subject: Re: jack kerouack institute for...
In-Reply-To:
<951202175958_123172981@emout04.mail.aol.com> from "Liz
Prato" at
Dec 2, 95 05:59:59 pm
->has
anyone heard of a book called 'Go' by John Clellon Holmes?\
(Chas.Jarvis
writes of it in his 'Visions of Kerouac'.
>
>
The school is the Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poets, a division of the
>
Naropa Institute in Boulder. Ginsberg helped found it in 1974 (I think).
>
Ginsberg is on the Board, but is not currently teaching. In 1994, Naropa
>
hosted a tribute to Ginsberg called "Beats and Other Rebel Angels."
There's a
>
very good article about it in the July 1994 issue of Shambhala Sun. In
>
includes an article written by Ginsberg, several pictures of the Beat
>
fellows, and poetry by people from the Kerouac School. Let me know if you
>
want more information on how to get this mag.
>
Namaste, Liz
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 20:58:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: grohl
Chris
(and anyone else who's interested),
Shambhala
Sun is a modern Buddhist Mag - very cool stuff, and they're soooo
enlightened
that they even have e-mail! Shambhsun@aol.com. I know they're set
up so
you can order past issues & you'd probably still be able to get that
July
1994 issue with Ginsberg on the cover if that's what you're interested
in.
Incase you need it, their snail-mail address is: 1345 Spruce St, Boulder,
CO 80302-4886.
They're published bi-monthly at a cost of $20 a year, but
sometimes
have special first time rates. Hope you like it! (I should get a
comission
for that pitch).
Namaste, Liz
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 21:11:30 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac and Buddhism
I agree
with Jim - it doesn't seem fair to be critical of Jack to have stuck
exclusively
to strict Buddhism. What if he believed exclusively in one
religion
and practiced it by the book and never questioned it - he wouldn't
be the
Jack Kerouac we all know and love. Jack was writing about experience,
his own
process, not trying to be the definitive word on anything, not even
the
Beat society of which he was the epicenter.
I don't think what really
matters
is what spiritual road he took, but that he chose to embark on one in
the
first place.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 21:43:37 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Re: jack kerouack institute for... (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
From: Carl A Biancucci <carl@WORLD.STD.COM>
->has
anyone heard of a book called 'Go' by John Clellon Holmes?\
(Chas.Jarvis
writes of it in his 'Visions of Kerouac'.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was
the first really Beat book any of them published. If I recall
corrected,
JK was a bit peeved that Holmes got it published before
OTR. They are a bit similar in ways (the two
books) - it's ggood though.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 21:45:41 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Bryan
<Christopher_Bryan@BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: firehouse
In-Reply-To: <960AC23001C93A7C@-SMF->
molly:
you can
beat me over the head with anything you want whenever you want...
CHRIS
On Sun,
03 Dec 1995 15:49:52 -0500 (EST) BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (BEAT-L: Beat
Generation
List) wrote:
>DEAR
>
>TED
>
>
>
>I
am not trying to beat anyone over the head.
I am just trying to
>express
my opinions of what I believe chance to be.
This expression
>stems
from ideas that I have learned in both literature and art classes
>
>MOLLY
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 21:47:50 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Bryan
<Christopher_Bryan@BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: black glasses
In-Reply-To: <950AC23001C93A7C@-SMF->
one of
gins' captions for one of his pictures of his Lower E. Side apt. in
fifties
included an allusion to his paintings on wall, one was a portrait of
him,
another was a Cezanne print...he misleads in captions by saying: "picture
of me
and Cezanne" so I was looking frantically for AG with the dead artist in a
pic...
chris
On Sun,
03 Dec 1995 15:47:59 -0500 (EST) BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (BEAT-L: Beat
Generation
List) wrote:
>CHRIS
>
>What
does this have to do with Cezanne???
>
>Molly
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 21:48:44 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Bryan
<Christopher_Bryan@BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: GO man GO
In-Reply-To: <199512040058.AA26483@world.std.com>
yeah, i
think i heard of it...
it's
only the seminal work introducing the beat movement in 1951...
On Sun,
03 Dec 1995 19:58:21 -0500 BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (BEAT-L: Beat
Generation
List) wrote:
>->has
anyone heard of a book called 'Go' by John Clellon Holmes?\
>(Chas.Jarvis
writes of it in his 'Visions of Kerouac'.
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
The school is the Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poets, a division of the
>>
Naropa Institute in Boulder. Ginsberg helped found it in 1974 (I think).
>>
Ginsberg is on the Board, but is not currently teaching. In 1994, Naropa
>>
hosted a tribute to Ginsberg called "Beats and Other Rebel Angels."
There's a
>>
very good article about it in the July 1994 issue of Shambhala Sun. In
>>
includes an article written by Ginsberg, several pictures of the Beat
>>
fellows, and poetry by people from the Kerouac School. Let me know if you
>>
want more information on how to get this mag.
>>
Namaste, Liz
>>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 23:53:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Balangue Christina A
<cbalangu@UCET.UFL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats and Existensialism
Comments:
To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 01 Dec 1995
14:37:15 MST."
<Pine.SOL.3.91.951201143538.4412B-100000@dana.ucc.nau.edu>
Me too!
If I
knew how, I would let you in on it.
I lost
that first e-mail I received that explained how to "UNSUBSCRIBE."
Well
let me know.
Christina
cbalangu@ucet.ufl.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 01:35:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Meredith Blackmann
<BoomShenka@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Jack's Oedipul Complex
i
believe oedipus' natural parents pierced his feet when they abandoned him
on the
mountain top.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 10:02:04 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Eckert, Molly K"
<MKECKERT@CCC-S.CEDARCREST.EDU>
Subject: Re: firehouse
In-Reply-To: <E60CC33001C93A7C@-SMF->
CHRIS
Thanks
for the offer...
Molly
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 10:26:53 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: List replies
I'm
glad to see that traffic on the Beat-l list is increasing. However,
I've
noticed that a lot of the messages posted on the list would be more
appropriate
asprivate responses or replies to a particular sender.
Please
remember to post only those replies to the list that you think
will interest
all 270 subscribers.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 10:23:57 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: sjcahn
<c659663@SHOWME.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: chance (to kill it a bit)
In-Reply-To: <EA0CC33001C93A7C@-SMF->
>
>
Molly
I'm
hoping I have the right person-- some email trouble over the weekend
has
signifcantly cleansed my files-- but, I'm curious. If you do believe
greatly
in chance (and I think you said you came to this through study of
literature
and art)-- what about responsibility?
Are we responsible for
our
actions-- or, to keep it in terms of BEAT-L, maybe-- was the William
Tell
fiasco "chance" and should Mr. Burroughs not feel guilt?
Yrs.
&c.
Steven
Cahn
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 11:54:15 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: sjcahn
<c659663@SHOWME.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: chance (to kill it a bit)
Comments:
To: CLAY VAUGHAN <CLV100U@mozart.fpa.odu.edu>
In-Reply-To: <2A4007A1FF2@mozart.fpa.odu.edu>
On Mon,
4 Dec 1995, CLAY VAUGHAN wrote:
>
Ahh, you might have inadvertantly hit on something here that might
>
clear up some apparent differences of opinion folks have been having
>
regarding the notion of chance. If we use the example Steven Cahn
>
suggested, maybe there is another way to express what we are meaning
> by
"chance". Maybe it's not chance at all that we're discussing here
>
(or need to discuss): maybe it's the idea of ACCIDENT. These aren't
>
synonymous, at least in a literary vein, I don't think. And certainly
>
chance played into the notion of WSB's Wm Tell game--we're talking
>
POSSIBILITY here-- it was accident that caused Joan's death, not
> chance.
Chance is forever present, possibility is (at least mosttimes
>
conceivably) present, but accident is an outcome, a result, an end
>
product of chance.
>
>
Clay
>
clv100u@mozart.fpa.odu.edu
>
My
question remains, though-- given chance, possibility, or accident-- is
Mr.
Burroughs responsible? He set up the
game-- but where does his part
and and
something else take over? I think in
some writing by him on the
subject,
he does talk about some invader feeling being present-- is this
just avoidance? Or something else?
Yrs.
&c.
Steven
Cahn
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 15:27:15 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Eckert, Molly K"
<MKECKERT@CCC-S.CEDARCREST.EDU>
Subject: Re: chance (to kill it a bit)
In-Reply-To: <3157C33001C93A7C@-SMF->
STEVEN
Well I
am not the one who mentioned Burroughs.
However, yes I did say
taht I
learned chance through art and literature.
And I have a very
difficult
time believing in it. I do believe that
some things are
chance. Such as, meeting someone on the street that
you haven't seen for
ages or
something like that. As for being
responsible for our actions,
that is
kind of difficult. If we look at those people who have mental
disabilitites
and hurt someone or kill them can we say that they were
responsible. Or do we blame it on them being insane. Similar to what
our
court systems are trying to figure out currently for some cases.
I am
not really sure what you mean by responsibility. That is why I gave
the
example of the person with a mental disability. We may never know if
we are
responsible for some actions as crime and abusing others.
However,
I do believe that in some subconscious way we are responsible
for
what we do. That can be through
literature, art and music etc.
Also, I
still do believe that our society and family and environment form
us when
we are born. I do believe that we are
born as a blank slate.
Though
some people disagree with me.
Responses?
Molly
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 15:39:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: chance (to kill it a bit)
In-Reply-To: <3357C33001C93A7C@-SMF-> from
"Eckert, Molly K" at Dec 4,
95 03:27:15 pm
>
Also, I still do believe that our society and family and environment form
> us
when we are born. I do believe that we
are born as a blank slate.
>
Though some people disagree with me.
i have
to say, that if this were the case....i would be a bigoted right-
wing
conservative nazi, with 5 children by now....on welfare.....addicted
to
numerous compulsive behavioral problems.....etc....
no....i
can't say that we are all born as a blank slate.....
look at
neal......
in his
book....
here
was a kid who was beaten down...by society...by his brother....
he saw
all that was horrid and cruel in this world, and yet, he was able
to
separate himself from the pain and live.......
he
wasn't a saint.....but he knew something.....early on in life......
he was
aware......
>
>
Responses?
>
>
Molly
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 14:38:51 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: sjcahn
<c659663@SHOWME.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: chance (to kill it a bit)
In-Reply-To: <3357C33001C93A7C@-SMF->
On Mon,
4 Dec 1995, Eckert, Molly K wrote:
>
>
Well I am not the one who mentioned Burroughs.
However, yes I did say
>
taht I learned chance through art and literature. And I have a very
>
difficult time believing in it. I do
believe that some things are
>
chance. Such as, meeting someone on the
street that you haven't seen for
> I
am not really sure what you mean by responsibility. That is why I gave
>
the example of the person with a mental disability. We may never know if
> we
are responsible for some actions as crime and abusing others.
>
However, I do believe that in some subconscious way we are responsible
>
for what we do. That can be through
literature, art and music etc.
>
>
Also, I still do believe that our society and family and environment form
> us
when we are born. I do believe that we
are born as a blank slate.
>
Though some people disagree with me.
>
>
Responses?
>
>
Molly
>
Yes. I kinda thought I was wrong about who I
attributed the thread to--
my
apologies. It makes my question
concerning responsibility moot, to an
extent--
I suspect, excluding people who are not "in command" for one
reason
or another (and how to define that is something else-- Burroughs'
state
of mind at the WmTell episode, his fault, no?
So actions therafter
his
responsibility-- and does anybody else feel bad about talking about
this
incident so coldly on the net??) that, as you say, we are
responsible.
Though,
I suppose I remain curious-- if you think we are blank slates
when
born, at what point does the "subconscious" responsibility begin--
or do
we remain, because we are just the result fo factors beyond our
control,
innocent of all charges against us? Or
is it societal "sins of
the
father" we must deal with? And, in
that dealing, do some produce the
art
we're really supposed to be talking about here?
Yrs.
&c.
Steven
Cahn
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 14:44:05 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: sjcahn
<c659663@SHOWME.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: chance (to kill it a bit)
Comments:
To: CLAY VAUGHAN <CLV100U@mozart.fpa.odu.edu>
Comments:
cc: CLV100U@mozart.fpa.odu.edu
In-Reply-To: <2A6E4422F2D@mozart.fpa.odu.edu>
On Mon,
4 Dec 1995, CLAY VAUGHAN wrote:
>
police reports and newspaper articles. I have read that stuff about
>
his being "invaded", something I think he's used as an M.O. in
>
writing at least some of his earlier works. He claims not to have
>
remembered writing much of NAKED LUNCH, which could always be the
>
excuse of a junkie's nodding out, but the cut ups too had much of
>
their coming about as if someone "outside" had planted the
>
construction of those words in just the right order. And again, those
>
long ago tape recording experiments Burroughs did with a microphone
>
on, recording the sounds in an "empty" room, suggest, too, this kind
> of
reasoning: that there is something "out there".
>
> He
may actually have believed the invader theory, to an extent,
>
regarding the Wm Tell incident, but I don't think this to be any more
>
than a self-defense mechanism, to spare himself some of the grief
>
that full-fledged aknowledgement of his lone responsibility would've
>
brought crashing down on him.
>
> I
think that may be what's behind the greatness in a lot of art, an
>
inexplicable aspect to a work that defies deconstruction, and commands
>
acceptance on its own terms.
>
>
>
Clay
>
clv100u@mozart.fpa.odu.edu
>
What
you're referring to is the age-old idea of the muse, perhaps?
Burroughs'
"invader" idea-- which isn't the best way to put it--
his
reportign for who knows what-- is just a nuclear-aged version of the
happier,
more pleasant visions of inspiration, I think.
And, maybe that
can't
be deconstructed, at least to everyone's satisfaction.
Yrs. c.
Steven
Cahn
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 12:56:22 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Bruce Greeley (Echo News Service)"
<v-bgree@MICROSOFT.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats/Existentialists
Message-ID:
red-34-msg951204205759MTP[01.51.00]000000a7-37481
The
"triple manifestation" idea is great, Levi!
And how
these three approaches to the rebellion are colored by their
respective
nationalities!
(I'll
always remember a teacher remarking how the beats were the last
artistic
movement that was positive -- and now in such contrast to the
angry
young men and existentialists...!)
----------
From:
Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
To:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:
Beats/Existentialists
Date:
Saturday, December 02, 1995 4:39PM
One
final thing about the Beats and Existentialism ... I'm just now reading
"Minor
Characters" by Joyce Johnson for the first time, and she mentions
Kerouac
heavily digging Kierkegaard. Who was,
of course, the first
existentialist
philosopher.
I've
always seen the American Beats, the French "Existentialists" of the
postwar
era (Sartre, Camus) and the "Angry Young Men" of Britian as a
triple
manifestation of the same rebellion, though of course the differences
are as
interesting as the similarities between these three literary groups.
------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 15:58:05 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CLAY VAUGHAN
<CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: chance (to kill it a bit)
Comments:
To: sjcahn <c659663@SHOWME.MISSOURI.EDU>
Yeah,
Steven, the whole idea of muse and inspiration might possibly
be
anathema to the old man's conception of his own work. He'd
probably
be much more comfortable with a more intrusive all-seeing
mind or
eye "interfering" with our thought processes in order to
create
anything. It's darker and more attune to Burroughs's vision of
things.
Clay
But by
the same token, WE might also see that interference as being
very
GOD-LIKE!! Oohhh, and would that send shivers down the old
man's
spine, to be sure.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 16:02:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Postmodern
>Given
this, I'd say Burroughs is pomo, Kerouac, particularly in his attempt
>to
put all his works together into the Duluoz Legend, a mo.
>Ted
P.
By
definition, postmodernism is somtimes applied to literature and art after
WWII
(1939-45), by my resources. Thus anything absurd, antihero-esque,
antinovel-esque,
Beat, concrete, metafiction-esque, pop, op, and similar
to
surrealism and poststructuralism is considered postmodern or at least
a
"spawn" of the movement.
So not
only Burroughs and Kerouac et al, but John Cage, Jean-Luc Godard,
and the
works of Jorge Luis Borges, Thomas Pynchon, Roland Barthes,
and
others.
By my
source, mind you.. not that I'm too familiar with the last three
names.
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 16:19:07 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Rita T. Friedman" <NekkidLnch@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Ohmygod!!!! We Killed Chance!!!!!!!!
Hello
All-
>>>i
have to say, that if this were the case....i would be a bigoted right-
wing
conservative nazi, with 5 children by now....on welfare.....addicted
to
numerous compulsive behavioral problems.....etc....>>>>
Oh
c'mon, now. Is this a plea for
pity? Perhaps the idea of being molded
was
meant in another sense also. The one
that you grow up dissatisfied with
what
surrounds you, and you vow to make yourself different ("I swear that
when I
have kids...")
>>>>look
at neal......
in his
book....
here
was a kid who was beaten down...by society...by his brother....
he saw
all that was horrid and cruel in this world, and yet, he was able
to
separate himself from the pain and live.......
he
wasn't a saint.....but he knew something.....early on in life......
he was
aware......>>>
Exactly.
This is
kinda like trying to order one pizza at a big party, no-one wants the
same
toppings. In other words, I don't think
we are going to come to an
accord
on this topic.
Chance
is one of the Great Many things we have no scientific proof on. Sure,
statistically
you're going to get half the tosses heads and half the tosses
tails,
but that's not the same thing.
The
William Tell incident? Does it really
matter? The matter of fact is
that he
killed wifey.
>>If
we look at those people who have mental
disabilitites
and hurt someone or kill them can we say that they were
responsible. Or do we blame it on them being insane. Similar to what
our
court systems are trying to figure out currently for some cases.>>
Well,
I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make, Molly, but here's what
I make
of it. Sometimes people do bad, bad
things. ("I want to pet the
rabbits,
George....") Sometimes they mean
to, sometimes it just happens that
way.
>>
I do believe that we are born as a blank slate.>>
Well,
mebbe. There's that whole gene
thing....
See, to
an extent, we have the power to be whatever we want to be (no-one
flame
me), but at the same time there are certain things I will never be able
to do
without serious operations that probably aren't even possible yet . (I
can't
flip my tongue over)
And
yes, we can change our *minds*, but the question we're all asking is can
we
change our *fate*. I think the best
answer to that is that we can't
change
what we aren't sure of to begin with.
(Anyone here ever read Dick's
"The
World of Jones?")
If
there is fate, maybe it is best we leave it alone. Bc if it *does* exist,
then
there's probably a reason. but then
again, if fate really does exist,
then we
can't change it anyway, now can we?
Maybe
we should lay aside the art and literature books for a while (no
offense,
Molly), and all just take a nice long nap instead.
Well,
that's what I'm going to do. good nite
all.
Rita
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 17:09:35 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Jack Kerouac Lit Prize Winner
TENNESSEE
WRITER WINS 7TH ANNUAL JACK KEROUAC LITERARY PRIZE
Earl S.
Braggs, writer, poet and teacher from Chattanooga, TN was chosen
as the
winner of the 7th Annual Jack Kerouac Literary Prize. Braggs'
entry,
"After Allyson," a chapter from a novel in progress, <Looking for
Jack
Kerouac>, was selected from over 400 entries of poetry, fiction and
non-fiction.
The prize, a cash award of $500 was presented at the 8th
Annual
Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! Festival, in Lowell, MA.
The
judge of this year's prize, James T. Jones,Professor of English at
Southwest
Missouri State University, and author of <A Map of Mexico City
Blues>,
praised the level of accomplishment in all manuscript entries, but
cited
Bragg's work as exemplary. "I looked for evidence of Kerouac's
influence.
Not imitation Kerouac, either...but writing that aspires to the
foremost
place in American letters."
The
Jack Kerouac Literary Prize is sponsored by the Estate of Jack and
Stella
Kerouac (John Sampas, Literary Executor), Middlesex Community
College,
University of Massachusetts Lowell. the Lowell National
Historical
Park, and Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!, a non-profit corporation.
This
year's literary prize administrator was Brian Foye, a Professor of
English
at Middlesex Community college, Lowell, MA. Writers seeking
information
on the Jack Kerouac Literary Prize should send a stamped,
self-addressed
envelope to the Jack Kerouac Literary Prize, PO Box 8788,
Lowell,
MA 01853-8788.adminsitrator
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 12:21:44 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Steve Smith
<psu06729@ODIN.CC.PDX.EDU>
Subject: Re: About Ginsberg (fwd)
In-Reply-To:
<951130.231328.EST.PRM95003@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
On Thu,
30 Nov 1995, Peter McGahey wrote:
>
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
From: "Darius A.
Yasiejko" <Derangel@AOL.COM>
>
Subject: Re: About Ginsberg
>
> i wouldn't doubt if ginsberg and burroughs had a sexual
>
relationship at one point....
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Allen, Bill and JAck were all homosexual and all had sex with each other.
>
This is not hard to find out as ever biography of them mentions it.
>
>
Neal also slept with them.
>
Whoa! *Homosexual*? How about bisexual, at least when it
comes
to Kerouac and
Cassady?
Bill and Allen, though they both had
hetero relations, count
themselves
exclusively homosexual. Jack and Neal,
though they had
homosexual
relations, counted themselves exclusively hetero.
Best,
Steve
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 17:27:31 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Bryan <Christopher_Bryan@BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: Postmodernism
In-Reply-To: <30C361C7@sdcwinb.daytonoh.attgis.com>
Interesting
notes and I applaud you on the eloquent name-drops, but
Postmodernism,
though its entire thesis goes against definition and
pigeonholing, has three identifiable traits, these being
the most basic and
oversimplifying
an always fluid style:
1) a
response to the Unimaginable:
emphasis on ambiguity in literature and
art; abstractions abound; non-
objective and reader/viewer specific (see
Stanley Fish's IS THERE A TEXT IN
THIS CLASS? or any Richard Rorty book)
2)
concerned with denaturalization:
an open challenge to overcome the
stylized boundaries and confines to which
Modernism so obediently yielded; striving
for the sanctity of silence (see
Buddhism); a washing away of the
established norms and rigid standards that
we rely on -- for instance, the
linguistics, structuralism, and
hermeneutics that so dominate Modernism
and
finally,
3) art attempts
to become indistinguishable from life:
arguably, an intertwining of the former
two, especially in its effects on
culture; this goes well with the recent
arguments about "Chance" -- the
Modernist model held up determinism as
absolute, that if we can put it all
together, we can know everything, predict
results, etc. (see Enlightenment)
but Postmodernism says that it is
relative and subjective, that the great
"IT" is individual-specific;
overall, life is based on influence of culture
but at the same time, culture is defined
by the influence of life, so they
start working interchangeably, each
giving and taking, and eventually, to
the point that these little "does
art mirror society or does society mirror
art" conversations wither away
This is
my input and I remind you all that I am not doing the topic justice by
my
sheer simplification and terseness. For
further information, read the
suggestions
above and see a great book called THE POSTMODERN TURN.
CHRIS
BRYAN
On Mon,
04 Dec 1995 16:02:34 -0500 BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (BEAT-L: Beat
Generation
List) wrote:
>>Given
this, I'd say Burroughs is pomo, Kerouac, particularly in his attempt
>>to
put all his works together into the Duluoz Legend, a mo.
>
>>Ted
P.
>
>By
definition, postmodernism is somtimes applied to literature and art after
>
>WWII
(1939-45), by my resources. Thus anything absurd, antihero-esque,
>antinovel-esque,
Beat, concrete, metafiction-esque, pop, op, and similar
>to
surrealism and poststructuralism is considered postmodern or at least
>a
"spawn" of the movement.
>
>So
not only Burroughs and Kerouac et al, but John Cage, Jean-Luc Godard,
>and
the works of Jorge Luis Borges, Thomas Pynchon, Roland Barthes,
>and
others.
>
>By
my source, mind you.. not that I'm too familiar with the last three
>names.
>
> ..Critter
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 18:40:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "W. Luther Jett"
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Subject: Chances and Choices
>Planning
on chance.. hehe.. what a concept!
Not
such an odd juxtaposition as it might seem on the surface!
Having
just returned from a week out of town, I'm about 2/3 the way through
getting
caught up on this thread about chance in creativity, and have the
need to
throw in my own 2 1/2 cents worth.
1.)
Chance is _not_ the same as "random" coincidence. If you read up on
probability
theory, you'll find that chance is actually mathematically
predictable
(if it weren't, Las Vegas could not exist). There are "laws", if
you
will, of chance. Moreover, there are apparently "laws" that govern
chaos;
not
only might the fluttering of a butterflies wing in Australia give rise to
a
hurricane in Jamaica, but it may do so in a predictable fashion!
2.)
Physics aside, I do sense that this topic, applied to human creativity,
opens a
Pandora's box of paradoxes. When I write, I usually have some general
theme,
perhaps a few phrases, as a jumping off point. I may even adopt
further
structures: meter, rhyme scheme, etc. But, what happens next does
have
its element of "chance"; the words may lead me in unpredicted and
unintended
directions. Sometimes, the poem that emerges is entirely different
from
the poem I intended to write. Or, what is written may inspire me to
write
another, unforseen, poem.
But,
what gave rise to the first poem? Was it "chance" that brought
together
my
thoughts with the proper mood to write the poem, or that caused me to
select
a poem as the medium for my thoughts, rather than a short story or an
essay
(or painting, song, prayer, etc.)? Or - Did I come to write the poem as
a
result of a series of conscious and cumulative choices? But if so - what
brought
me to each of those choices?
Am I a
poet dreaming of a butterfly in Australia, a butterfly in Australia,
or the
dream of the poet who dreams of the butterfly, and so on in what is
becoming
an infinite regression?
Perhaps
chance and choice are closer in nature than some might think.
Luther
Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 21:22:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: philzi <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: New book.
There
will be a new Jack Kerouac biography by Ellis Amburn coming out by
around
August of next year. It will be called the "The Beat Of Life". Ellis
Amburn
was in Lowell Mass. most of the summer doing research. He was JKs'
editor
in the 60s. I think this will shed some light on later years. Not
much
discussion about the Jan Kerouac- Nicosia-- Sampas fued. The Sampas
family
is getting a bad rap and they are doing some good things relating to
the JK
estate. But I still would like to see a Kerouac museum in Lowell.
What
say to that? Philzi - Lowell Mass.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 23:42:25 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Re: chance (to kill it a bit) (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
From: "Eckert, Molly K"
<MKECKERT@CCC-S.CEDARCREST.EDU>
As for being
responsible for our actions,
that is
kind of difficult. If we look at those people who have mental
disabilitites
and hurt someone or kill them can we say that they were
responsible Or do we blame it on them being insane.
I am
not really sure what you mean by responsibility. That is why I gave
the
example of the person with a mental disability. We may never know if
we are
responsible for some actions as crime and abusing others.
However,
I do believe that in some subconscious way we are responsible
for
what we do. That can be through
literature, art and music etc.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
What if
a mentally ill - or drugged out person were to write a novel?
Are
they responsible or is it chance? Who's
to say whose mind is
insane
and whose isn't?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Also, I
still do believe that our society and family and environment form
us when
we are born. I do believe that we are
born as a blank slate.
Though
some people disagree with me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Although
Locke is attributed with the tabula rasa theory, I cannot see
much in
what you say that the Existentialists would argue with. Does
your
existence determine who you are or your essence. this gets us back
to last
week's discussion on the Beats and how they view Existentialism.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 00:22:39 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Postmodern (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
By
definition, postmodernism is somtimes applied to literature and art after
WWII
(1939-45), by my resources. Thus anything absurd, antihero-esque,
antinovel-esque,
Beat, concrete, metafiction-esque, pop, op, and similar
to
surrealism and poststructuralism is considered postmodern or at least
a
"spawn" of the movement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You hit
the nail on the head (it's late - please excuse bad cliches)
when
you say "sometimes", but how does this automatically make
any
post 1945 writing PostModern. The
notion of PostModernity
and
PostModern criticism and art goes much deeper than merely
the
time when a piece was written. Please
don't degrade my
humble
profession any more than it already is.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 02:51:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: unsubscribe
For all
of you who are trying to get OFF this mailing list, send an e-mail
to:
LISTSERV@cunyvm.cuny.edu
In the
body, type UNSUBSCRIBE BEAT-L
Good
luck.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 09:03:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ohmygod!!!! We Killed Chance!!!!
In-Reply-To:
<951204161900_64081013@emout04.mail.aol.com> from "Rita T.
Friedman" at Dec 4, 95
04:19:07 pm
>
>>>i have to say, that if this were the case....i would be a bigoted
right-
>
wing conservative nazi, with 5 children by now....on welfare.....addicted
> to
numerous compulsive behavioral problems.....etc....>>>>
>
> Oh
c'mon, now. Is this a plea for pity? Perhaps the idea of being molded
>
was meant in another sense also. The
one that you grow up dissatisfied with
>
what surrounds you, and you vow to make yourself different ("I swear that
>
when I have kids...")
no..just
a comment on environment.....recollecting...that as a
very
young child....i knew there had to be another way.....and wondering,
how did
i know this?
>
>>>>look at neal......
> in
his book....
>
here was a kid who was beaten down...by society...by his brother....
> he
saw all that was horrid and cruel in this world, and yet, he was able
> to
separate himself from the pain and live.......
>
> he
wasn't a saint.....but he knew something.....early on in life......
> he
was aware......>>>
>
>
Exactly.
>
>
>
This is kinda like trying to order one pizza at a big party, no-one wants the
>
same toppings. In other words, I don't
think we are going to come to an
>
accord on this topic.
someone
idiot always wants to order pineapple...*smile*
> If
there is fate, maybe it is best we leave it alone. Bc if it *does* exist,
>
then there's probably a reason. but
then again, if fate really does exist,
>
then we can't change it anyway, now can we?
sometimes
there is a yearning in our heart....a sense that can be
frightening.....if
we ignore it.....and we think that fate is best left
alone....then
aren't we in a way, changing our destiny by not acting
upon
this calling....
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 08:16:39 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: sjcahn
<c659663@SHOWME.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Postmodern
In-Reply-To: <30C361C7@sdcwinb.daytonoh.attgis.com>
On Mon,
4 Dec 1995, Ritter, Chris D wrote:
>
>
>Given this, I'd say Burroughs is pomo, Kerouac, particularly in his attempt
>
>to put all his works together into the Duluoz Legend, a mo.
>
>
>Ted P.
>
> By
definition, postmodernism is somtimes applied to literature and art after
>
>
WWII (1939-45), by my resources. Thus anything absurd, antihero-esque,
>
antinovel-esque, Beat, concrete, metafiction-esque, pop, op, and similar
> to
surrealism and poststructuralism is considered postmodern or at least
> a
"spawn" of the movement.
>
> So
not only Burroughs and Kerouac et al, but John Cage, Jean-Luc Godard,
>
and the works of Jorge Luis Borges, Thomas Pynchon, Roland Barthes,
>
and others.
>
> By
my source, mind you.. not that I'm too familiar with the last three
>
names.
>
> ..Critter
>
I think
there's something to the modernist leaning of JK-- and time
period
alone does not a postmodern make. I
don't even get a real sense
of
Kerouac's characters being especially "anti-hero;" they often seem
very
traditional in their lonely wanderings: Poe, Whitman, Byron,
Shelley,
Milton, Homer all have similar "heroes." And his style draws
right
from modernists, Joyce especially (in a sense...). I think that,
given
the group JK was surrounded by, this makes his writing all the more
interesting.
Yrs.
&c.
Steven
Cahn
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 09:38:29 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Burroughs & computers
I came
upon an ad for a new computer game being sold at JR Records:
"The
Dark Eye: Role playing adventure game based on 3 Edgar Allan Poe
stories
narrated by William S. Burroughs. A
haunting nightmare world of
murder
& malevolence. For Windows &
Macintosh. $39.95." A nice xmas
present
for Burroughsians.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 09:45:33 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: invader or ugly spirit
When
Burroughs spoke about the William Tell incident, he described it
more as
possession by an "ugly spirit."
The "invader" in this case is
more
like a demon than a muse.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 09:00:27 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: sjcahn
<c659663@SHOWME.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: invader or ugly spirit
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%95120509465945@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
On Tue,
5 Dec 1995, Bill Gargan wrote:
>
>
When Burroughs spoke about the William Tell incident, he described it
>
more as possession by an "ugly spirit." The "invader" in this case is
>
more like a demon than a muse.
>
One
person's demon is another's muse...
Yrs.
&c.
Steven
Cahn
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 08:29:14 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: invader or ugly spirit
Yes I
have read Burroughs speaking in such a
manner about invaders or
spirits
or dark forces. Much of his writing is
describing these things.
Concerning
the day of the murder he talked about feeling these things in
the
hours before the murder. He definitely
believes in sprites and spirits
and
such things. he has "painted"
numerous pictures by shooting paint cans
with a
shotgun and letting the paint spatter on the canvas. In discussing
these
painting and the painting style he has said that the method allow the
spirits
of the paint to be made manifest, or something to that effect.
I would
think that after all these years he could come up with a better
excusefor
killing his wife than "The Devil
made me do it".
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 12:10:37 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Davis
<CSD95001@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Beats/Postmodernism
In
response to the discussion on Postmodernism:
I agree
with Peter's notion that calling any post WWII writing "postmodern"
is
ludicrous, as I cannot imagine anyone applying this term to Danielle Steele
for
example. As far as the attempts to define it go, I am mildly disturbed by
the
simplistic and reductionist definitions that have been given. I can't
remember
who gave us the "3 qualities" definition, but those terms would
probably
be better applied to "Post Structuralism" rather than
"Postmodernism"
In my
view, the Beats would not really be classified as either postmodern or
poststructuralist,
due to their reliance on an objective reality. The