beat list december 1995

>recall reading that WSB **tried** to get Kerouac to read it, I never actually

>saw that Jack had read it.

>Miller

Could we maybe move a bit beyond these hazy references like "quite a bit"

and "many times"? Kerouac riffs on "Fellahin" (his spelling) in OTR, part

Four, chapter 6, p. 274 in the Penguin Modern Classics paperback, 1978

reprint. Now give me a usable reference to Burroughs' use of the concept,

please....

Regards,

bs@AUC

Dept. of Languages and Intercultural Studies

Aalborg University, Denmark

=========================================================================

Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 11:26:57 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Ted Pelton <Notlep@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: BEAT-L Digest - 8 Dec 1995 to 9 Dec 1995

Bravo, Perry! I think there's probably enough people with deep familiarity

with OTR to help out those just getting into it. And with 270-some

subscribers here (or was that when no one knew how to get off?!), I think we

can maintain a good reading group. And there's a Christmas scene in the

book, too, as I recall, which makes it seasonal!

Just say when, I'll be there. We might then follow it up with a more minor

work -- but I'm sure whatever we do, we'll have experts out there.

Ted Pelton

=========================================================================

Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 16:48:10 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Tony Trigilio <atrigili@LYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU>

Subject: Re: Read OTR Together?

In-Reply-To: <v01530503acefbceb9b2c@[153.37.59.41]> from "Robert Martin" at

Dec 9, 95 02:31:01 pm

Like Robert, I am also a "recreational Kerouac user," and I think an OTR

discussion group would be great. How/when do we start?

Tony

=========================================================================

Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 17:38:39 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>

Subject: Michael Herr Interview/OTR Movie

First, before we get into one of those silly "Is he/she beat enough to be

discussed on this list" discussions -- Michael Herr is the author of the most

recent On The Road screenplay. He is also a fine writer. His book,

"Dispatches" was one of the best ever about the Vietnam war. He was

interviewed in a small (not one of the major corporate ones) video store

giveaway magazines that I found in a place in Cambridge, Mass, near Harvard

Square.

He had a lot of interesting things to say. Unfortionately, I lost the

magazine and forget the name (sorry!). Also, I was visiting Boston from DC,

so I can't go back there anytime soon. If anyone can get there, I think the

place was called Psychotronic Video on Mass. Ave., about two blocks east of

Harvard Square.

Anyway, the movie has been shelved for the time being and he was not certain

at all that it will ever be made. I hope it happens!

Coppola has commissioned several screenplays over the years. Apparently,

Herr's is the only one to get serious consideration for eventual production.

Originally, in the 50's, the movie was to have cast Marlon Brando as the

lead (I assume Cassidy - actually I think he would have made a better Sal

Paradise). But, with all the beat mass hysteria and the absolute butchery of

the Subterranians, it never got made.

In general, Herr said that he followed the book pretty closely but they had

to cut major stuff, such as most of the "Mexican Girl" sequence.

He complained that Neal Cassidy is especially hard to cast.

He said that the focus is definately on the pure "road" parts of the book,

and less on the times in-between trips.

One past (rejected) screenplay condensed the whole book into one coast to

coast and back again sequence. Herr felt that was too much of a departure.

Herr mentioned how almost everyone thinks OTR took place in the fifties. Of

course it was 1947-48 (I think).

That covers the highlights of what I remember. Anyone else seen the

interview?

Howard Park

=========================================================================

Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 20:43:10 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: William Miller <KenofWNC@AOL.COM>

Subject: Fellahin 2

Ted and others,

"Fellah type" appears in Spengler's book here: In the section entitled

"Cities and Peoples", about 1/4 of the way through, in a paragraph

immediately **preceded** by a paragraph which ends with the phrase "Nora and

Nana".

It also appears two pages later. This is page 251 in my abridged volume.

The term "fellaheen" also recurs in the last paragraph of the section entited

"Cities and Peoples" (Section XIII)

Perhaps it can be found in more places, but this is where I found it.

Yours,

William Miller

=========================================================================

Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 20:44:35 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: William Miller <KenofWNC@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Read OTR Together?

Hello folks,

I probably would not participate; I'd rather have a group reading of another

Kerouac novel. On the Road is the one I am most familiar with, and I have

planned to read some others before coming back to that one.

But I would encourage all to participate, and I may go along with it; perhaps

it would lead to a groupreading of another book later............... it

beats (no pun intended) whatever else we could be discussing...

William

=========================================================================

Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 21:22:24 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Got your Mojo workin? <an272@LEO.NMC.EDU>

Subject: Re: Read OTR Together?

In-Reply-To: <951210204310_129970921@mail02.mail.aol.com>

Hello,

This is my first post to this list and just got to that it's

great to find a list about the beats. I'm relativly new to the beat

lterature also, I got the portable beat reader in the spring and have

since been reading every related book the local bookstore has to offer.

Anyway I'd love to read OTR along with you all and see your views. Can't

say that I can offer to much in the way of literary critisicm or other

complex avenues of trying to therorize passages in ways Kerouac probably

didn't think of anyway, but I sure will try and enjoy trying!

Tom

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 06:56:27 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Perry Lindstrom <LindLitGrp@AOL.COM>

Subject: OTR Reading

I'm glad to see the interest in reading OTR together. I have already started

and would suggest roughly that we read Part 1 over the next two weeks. Parts

2&3 could get a week each and parts 4&5 could be covered in a week (since

part five is just a couple pages) -- making this a 5 week project. I realize

people might be going off on holiday and might not have access to the list

for a few days at a time so we could slow things down during that period.

I'll be reading from the Penguin Classics edition with Jack and Neal on the

cover so my page references will be to that. I'll try to include chapter and

paragraph references for people reading in other editions. It is 6:30 a.m.

right now so I don't really have anything coherent to say, but I do have an

opening question. On page 8 of my edition -- the long paragraph (11 I

believe) that begins "We went to New York--" contains the now famous passage

about "...the only people for me are the mad ones..." After the wonderful

image of the roman candles he asks: "What did they call such young people in

Goethe's Germany?" Is he invoking Goethe as history's quintessential

intellectual and contrasting the young to him. Or is he invoking Goethe to

give his own work an intellectual basis -- a validity that would fly in the

face of how his work would likely be judged based on his use of the beatnik

vernacular? Towards the end of chapter One he contrasts Dean's (or should I

say Neal's -- I guess since we are discussing text here I will stick to the

fictional names) raw, sensual intelligence with his other friends -- not in a

way that would have made the rest of them very happy I might add. The most

telling line: "Besides all my New York friends were in the negative,

nightmare position of putting down society and giving their tired bookish or

political or psychoanalytical reasons, but Dean just raced in society..." So

why invoke Geothe -- was Jack conflicted on this? Enough for now...it's off

to work.

Perry Lindstrom

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 07:38:18 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: William Miller <KenofWNC@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Usages of "Fellaheen"

Comments: To: i12bent@hum.auc.dk

Hello folks:

In a message dated 95-12-10 10:24:16 EST, the person in Denmark wrote:

>>Mr. Burroughs uses the term "fellaheen" quite a bit in his writings,

>>particularly in the novels that he wrote in the 70's and 80's, I do

believe.

>> I can believe that Kerouac used the term, AND read Spengler's book, I just

>>recall reading that WSB **tried** to get Kerouac to read it, I never

>actually saw that Jack had read it.

>>Miller

>Could we maybe move a bit beyond these hazy references like "quite a bit"

>and "many times"? Kerouac riffs on "Fellahin" (his spelling) in OTR, part

>Four, chapter 6, p. 274 in the Penguin Modern Classics paperback, 1978

>reprint. Now give me a usable reference to Burroughs' use of the concept,

>please....

>Regards,

You may not find this to be "usable", but in _The Western Lands_,

(Burroughs), ISBN 0140094563, i find the term ^fellahin^ on a page, "...The

Western Lands of the rich are watered by *fellaheen blood, built of

*fellaheen flesh and bones, lighted by *fellaheen spirit."(* =

italicized)....again, same book, a few pages later, "...store the plasma of

the fellaheen neded to preserve their masters..."

_The Place of Dead Roads_ (Burroughs) isbn 805039546, near the beginning of

the section entitled "Quien Es?" "...they never ask themselves how such a

system *could work. It ran on fellahin blood...."

Burroughs' use of the concept of the fellaheen is found throughout his

fiction, in my opinion, although he uses the *term less often than the

concept.

I'm sorry that you find "quite a bit" to be hazy. I don't have a true

scientific count of the frequency of the term "fellaheen" in WSB's writings.

I found these 3 in about 5 minutes, though, if that gives you any clue....

And that's what I call quite a bit..

Yours,

William Miller

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 09:15:01 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: The Whitney, Fellaheen

In answer to someone's question, yes there is a catalog from the Whitney

show. It's $35, very ecclectic...interesting...a lot of original stuff in

it, it's not full of already over anthologized stuff...I suppose any good

bookstore could special order it and I'm sure the hard working beat

booksellers on the net will have it.

Also, I think the beat-Pollock link is pretty strong. Both were very much

out of the same post-war cultural ferment of the late 40's in New York and

Pollock was certainly known to AG, JK, etc. as well as anyone who hung out at

the Cedar Bar. Pollock was pretty notorious, more so than AG or Kerouac at

the time (except for the Carr episode). In any case the Pollock painting at

the Whitney exhibit is probably more connected to the beats than most of the

others.

H. Park

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 09:39:44 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Paul Rice <PAULR@COASTAL.EDU>

Organization: Coastal Carolina University

Subject: Re: Lineage, GenX

I really think that a discussion of GenX is germane to any discussion

of the Beats. The intellectual history of the Postmodern is

inextricably tied up in the value system of the revolution of the

sixties. The MTV mentality is the absurd reduction of the anti-intellectual,

anti-university impetus of beats like Snyder, who while he remains

one of my heroes, was hard on formal education even though he is

extremely learned. Some hypocrisy here, I think.

Autodidacticism easily gives way to adidacticism. And I am reminded of the

Beatle's anti-capitalist songs written while their CEO hauled their

money to bank in trucks. I am a hippie-turned-professor. My

Snyder-reading, reefer-smoking days, delayed my education by ten

years. I teach thedrug-torpid, addled know-nothings which the children of my

generation have become. I'm sure this is not what Gary and Jack and

Allen had in mind, but they helped make it his way. Jack said as

much before he died.

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 22:21:20 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: OTR Reading

Re: Goethe question - I'd just say that, given Kerouac's obsession with

famious writers he was just using it as a historical reference - like

"Kennedy's America" or "Hitler's Germany" or "Blake's England" -- Kerouac was

into the classic writers, so in comparing his generation to anther time and

place it would be quite natural to invoke the name of a writer identified

with a country and a time. I know almost nothing about Goethe. I took all

sociology and pol. science classes in college.

I'll probably read OTR in one or two sittings but I'd be happy to join in any

discussions. I'm already feeling stressed about all I have to do before

Xmas. I won't pick it up till late Dec.

Hope you can make the Sat. show. It will be loud rock, so make sure you're

in the mood for that. Let me know if you have any questions about the show.

Howard

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 01:30:55 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Ted Pelton <Notlep@AOL.COM>

Subject: Goethe

I tend to think the reference is to young early Romantics -- "bohemians" --

these 1940s drop-out non-conformists self-styling themselves upon past

instances of young sensitive spiritual sorrowful (as in ... of Young Werther)

aberrant behavior.

Reminds me: there's an episode of Blackadder (British comedy starring Rowan

Atkinson) set in the 19th century, on Brit romantics (inexactly quoted):

"they just wander around Europe in big shirts trying to get laid."

That's my speculation.

By the way, if anyone's interested in a good book about the NY "Underground"

art scene, one which by not sticking too heavily with definitions like beat

or abstract expressionist makes links among people who were all in the same

place at the same time, Village late 1940s-early 60s, check out Ron

Sukenick's _Down & In: Life in the Underground_. Great descriptions of

scenes at bars like San Remo, Minetta's, etc., as well as much off-the-cuff

interviewing of Ginsberg, Baraka, Corso, etc. Pollock and so-called Beats

got drunk at same time, same places. What more does one need?

Ted Pelton

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 04:54:10 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>

Subject: chance - rant rave

before i start on this nonsense,

liz prato

WRITE MORE!!!!

the question of spontaneity in kerouac's writing led to a thread

of...

> I believe...that there is no such thing as chance. Everything stems

> from some sort of experience. Our whole life has been experience

> after experience. If he says that it is chance it is probably a

> subconcious memory or experience that is being written down onto

> his paper.

> molly (i think, apologies in advance if i'm wrong)

if there is no such thing as chance, then everything is pre-ordained,

pre-destined...and therefore a god...

> There is nothing *but* chance in life. Life is chance. OK, it may

> be that what is 'experience' stems from a chance happening to

> ourselves or to our ancestors but it is (was) chance. It was chance

> that your parents met one another (not meant as a flame!)...

> I'd like to expand on this later.

> Simon Okotie

if everything is chance, then nothing is pre-ordained, and there is

no such thing as destiny...and therefore no god...

the final side of this triangle is that the only thing that is

pre-ordained is the fact that there is nothing pre-ordained and

therefore a god who 'rolls a die' as i think einstein once

remarked...and hawking later ridiculed...

catholism is essentially a 'god' religion...

i.e. if you don't believe in god, the religion falls flat on it's

arse and cannot possibly work for you

buddhism is essentially a 'no god' religion...

i.e. whether you do or don't belive in god, the religion can still

work for you

interesting paradox to the catholic v buddhist 'struggle' of

kerouac...grew from catholic...into buddhist...back again but

never the same...kerouac believed in spontaneous prose, for

those who haven't read the henry miller preface to the subs i

include the following...

" jack kerouac has done something to our immaculate prose from

which it may never recover. a passionate lover of language, he

knows how to use it. born virtuoso that he is, he takes pleasure

in defying the laws and conventions of literary expression which

cripple genuine, untrammeled communication between reader and

writer. as he has so well said in 'the essentials of spontaneous

prose' - 'satisfy yourself first, then reader cannot fail to

receive telephathic shock and meaning-excitement by same laws

operating in his own human mind'. "

i believe the spontaneous side of kerouac was very much his buddhist

beliefs but had more roots in the personality of a certain mr

cassady. personally i think he believed more in proust and dostoevsky

than either of the two religions. i think he drew more from

experience and the perception of mind altering drugs. he only ever

claimed to be a writer (experience) and a lonely lost soul (drugs).

however, he could never have claimed to be a catholic mystic unless

his religion affected him to the degree this list reads & writes about

(myself included!).

responsiblity. yes everyone is responsible for their actions! but

in no way responsible for consequences of their actions.

ie. if ginsberg writes about young boys, then is he responsible for

others who mess with young boys after reading his work? it must

be the responsibility of the reader.

ie. if burroughs writes about drugs, is he then responsible for other

junkies who follow his example? or for the junkies who give up

because of burroughs nightmares and encounters with mr death?

unless we can see into the future before an action is taken, we cannot

be held repsponsible for the consequences of our actions.

i hold responsiblity for this belief, but not repsonsiblity for the

consequences of this belief. i can't read your mind ;-)

if you believe that others aren't responsible for themselves, then

you become a censor believing you know what's best for others.

and for you gossip mongers interested in the sexuality of the beats

i have a j.issacs video interview with allen ginsberg (1994), where

mr ginsberg states that he never slept with mr kerouac. contrary to

previous e-mail messages.

joe

currently avoiding the russian snow blanketing northern england by

fleeing to southern spain on a hemmingway inspired expedition to write

spontaneous code (computer language - like kerouac programmed

our minds!) for the sake of all those encapsulated by these digital

toys.

fuckin' tosh or what man!

this is the tale of a northern soul,

looking to find his way back home...

i want to see if you know me,

i was born in a rented room.

my mam she didn't get no flowers,

dad didn't aprove of me do you i'm alive -

with something inside of me,

i don't think i'm coming down...

give me your powder and pills,

i want to see if they cure my ills.

got no time for love and devotion,

got no time for old fashioned potions.

cos i'm alive...

with something inside of me...

and i don't think i'm coming down...

r.ashcroft

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 11:35:43 GMT

Reply-To: simon@okotie.demon.co.uk

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Simon Okotie <simon@OKOTIE.DEMON.CO.UK>

Subject: Re: chance - rant rave

> the question of spontaneity in kerouac's writing led to a thread...

Thanks, Joe, for spinning that spontaneous thread...a very interesting

discussion when put together like that...

> if everything is chance, then nothing is pre-ordained, and there is

> no such thing as destiny...and therefore no god...

I believe there is some sort of individual 'destiny' made up off stored

'experiences' from our own lifetime (memories) and from our forebears' lives

(genes) and that these experiences are based on an accumulation of many many

chance occurrences. It is the sheer scale of the number of chance occurrences

and the impossibility of untangling the web of linkages that leads us to feel

that there must be a destiny which is given to us by a higher force. However,

this does not *necessarily* mean that there is no god, since the fundamental

question remains about how the whole process started...so I believe that your

comment above is a non-sequitur.

> the final side of this triangle is that the only thing that is

> pre-ordained is the fact that there is nothing pre-ordained and

> therefore a god who 'rolls a die' as i think einstein once

> remarked...and hawking later ridiculed...

Einstein actually said 'God does not play dice'. By the way - which Hawking are

we talking about?

Have a good time in Spain...!

Simon Okotie

e-mail: simon@okotie.demon.co.uk

tel: +181 830 3604

22 The Avenue

Queen's Park

London

NW6 7YD

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 06:40:08 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Perry Lindstrom <LindLitGrp@AOL.COM>

Subject: OTR Reading Time

I have realized that I greatly overestimated the time needed to read OTR. It

simply can not be read slowly. So unless people have a whole lot to say

about it I can't imagine five weeks on it. Although certainly a thread could

last that long if we get off on a particular tangent -- so let's just read

the durn thing. I notice that Goethe reappears when he first gets to Denver

-- he takes a nap under a bust of Goethe -- father figure?

Perry

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 16:55:59 MET

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Dale Carter <engdc@HUM.AAU.DK>

Organization: Faculty of Arts, Aarhus University

Subject: Re: William Burroughs and William Tell

Someone was asking recently about specific evidence concerning a link

between William Burroughs' shooting of his wife, Joan, and his writing.

One source on this is Mr. Burroughs' own introduction to the 1985 Viking Penguin

edition of Queer. In it, the author writes breifly but directly

about the shooting and his subsequent literary career:

'I am forced to the appalling conclusion that I would never have

become a writer but for Joan's death, and to a realization of the

extent to which this event has motivated and formulated my writing. I

live with the constant threat of possession, and a constant need to

escape from possession, from Control. So the death of Joan bought me

in contact with the invader, the Ugly Spirit, and maneuvered me into

a lifelong struggle, in which I have had no choice except to write my

way out.'

William Burroughs, Queer (London: Pan, 1986), p. 18. This book was

originally published as a Viking Penguin in 1985.

Dale Carter (Dr)

Department of English

University of Aarhus

DK-8000 Aarhus C

Denmark

phone: (Denmark = 45) 89 42 21 21

fax: (Denmark = 45) 86 19 16 99

email: engdc@hum.aau.dk

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 13:54:32 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: BEAT-L Digest - 8 Dec 1995 to 9 Dec 1995

William - I just want you to know it was not you I was referring to. Your

request was respectful & appropriate. Hope you get what you're looking for.

- Liz

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 16:22:51 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: paul a weinfield <pweinfie@INDIANA.EDU>

Subject: Re: OTR Reading

Comments: To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"

<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.bitnet@IUBVM.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>

Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L

<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.bitnet@IUBVM.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>

In-Reply-To: <951211220946_51463990@emout06.mail.aol.com>

-- another instance where this is true: in the Subterraneans, he remarks

that his generation reacts differently whereas "Dostoevsky would've said

`WHAT'". Just a thought.....

On Mon, 11 Dec 1995, Howard Park wrote:

> Re: Goethe question - I'd just say that, given Kerouac's obsession with

> famious writers he was just using it as a historical reference - like

> "Kennedy's America" or "Hitler's Germany" or "Blake's England" -- Kerouac was

> into the classic writers, so in comparing his generation to anther time and

> place it would be quite natural to invoke the name of a writer identified

> with a country and a time. I know almost nothing about Goethe. I took all

> sociology and pol. science classes in college.

> I'll probably read OTR in one or two sittings but I'd be happy to join in any

> discussions. I'm already feeling stressed about all I have to do before

> Xmas. I won't pick it up till late Dec.

> Hope you can make the Sat. show. It will be loud rock, so make sure you're

> in the mood for that. Let me know if you have any questions about the show.

> Howard

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 16:27:32 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: paul a weinfield <pweinfie@INDIANA.EDU>

Comments: To: Beat Net <beat-l%cunyvm.bitnet@pucc.princeton.edu>

to all--

here's just a thought, and it will probably start a fight, but

these fights always seem to spark interesting ideas, so what the hell.

everyone always talks about how On the Road is a take-off of huck

finn. i'm not sure i agree, but i do think that if any claims to kerouac

"takin off" anything are to exist, we should look at the similarities

between The Subterraneans and Hemmingway's The Sun Also Rises. just a

thought........

-- paul

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 14:05:39 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Mr. Congeniality" <SIMPKINS@SONOMA.EDU>

Being that The Sun Also rises is my favorite book, i would love to hear how you

figure this to be true. I would think it is more like Dostoyevsky's Notes From

Underground. Even the title is similar: Sub=Under, Terrain=Ground.

Love Always,

Eric Simpkins

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 06:59:18 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Stedman, Jim" <JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>

Subject: Re: Sun vs. Sub

In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of Tue, 12 Dec 1995 16:05:39 EST

I once tried to pursue the thought; comparing the Beat Generation to the

Lost Generation. Not much to really go with, there. Two different

historical times, different mind-sets...

In the introduction of my paperback copy of The Subs, mention is made

that the book is Jack's version of Notes From The Underground.

Jim Stedman

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:03:47 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Peter McGahey <PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>

Subject: Re: Sun vs. Sub (fwd)

----------------------------Original message----------------------------

I once tried to pursue the thought; comparing the Beat Generation to the

Lost Generation. Not much to really go with, there. Two different

historical times, different mind-sets...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the book _13th Gen_ by Neil Howe and Bill Strauss there is an excellent

link made (on many grounds, mainly sociological) between the Lost

Generation and GenX. Ha Ha - isn't it funny that that keeps coming up.

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 18:17:48 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: paul a weinfield <pweinfie@INDIANA.EDU>

Subject: Re: your mail

Comments: To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"

<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.bitnet@IUBVM.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>

Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L

<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.bitnet@IUBVM.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>

In-Reply-To: <01HYQ0RDLR0Y91VXDP@SONOMA.EDU>

-- i don't have a copy of the sun also rises from which to refer and it's

been several years since i read it, but i will get back to you on that

one. as for the notes from the underground thing, i think that's kind of

unlikely. kerouac was obviously influenced by dostoevsky but the plots,

themes, and symbols in both novels are radically different.

-- paul

On Tue, 12 Dec 1995, Mr. Congeniality wrote:

> Being that The Sun Also rises is my favorite book, i would love to hear how

you

> figure this to be true. I would think it is more like Dostoyevsky's Notes From

> Underground. Even the title is similar: Sub=Under, Terrain=Ground.

> Love Always,

> Eric Simpkins

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 11:03:26 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>

Subject: rant rave oops

> if everything is chance, then nothing is pre-ordained, and there is

> no such thing as destiny...and therefore no god...

>I believe there is some sort of individual 'destiny' made up off

>stored 'experiences' from our own lifetime (memories) and from our

>forebears' lives (genes) and that these experiences are based on an

>accumulation of many many chance occurrences. It is the sheer scale of

>the number of chance occurrences and the impossibility of untangling the

>web of linkages that leads us to feel that there must be a destiny which

>is given to us by a higher force. However, this does not *necessarily*

>mean that there is no god, since the fundamental question remains about

>how the whole process started...so I believe that your comment above is a

>non-sequitur.

i don't why i get into these sort of conversations thru short

paragraphed e-mail, but...

in context to the complete e-mail of *catholic & buddhist religious

belief*, i was leading into kerouacs struggle of catholism v buddhism,

his style of writing and how the 'chance' discussions could 'sort of

highlight' this by what are in essence the religious arguments for

the existence of a god and their reference to destiny/chance.

the point i was trying to illustrate was that if life has a 'destiny'

then someone or something must have created that 'destiny' hence a 'god'.

if you believe in any form of 'destiny' (even the destiny of chance!)

you believe in a 'god/creator/ruler' etc.

if there is 'no destiny', _everything_ is pure chance/accident/

circumstance etc., then logically there must be 'no god'.

remember the principle of logic is True/False, Yes/No etc.

however, like you say, this world is sooooo huge & there exists sooo

many logical mysteries everywhere, that i attempted to bridge the gap

between the first two propositions...

ABSTRACT DICE!

> the final side of this triangle is that the only thing that is

> pre-ordained is the fact that there is nothing pre-ordained and

> therefore a god who 'rolls a die' as i think einstein once

> remarked...and hawking later ridiculed...

'god' has sort of said 'let there now be no god'...

i hope this is the case, cos if life is the logical opposite to

death and death therefore the logical opposite to life, then there

is a third state of flux existing between the two to ensure transition!

we'll be in a fine mess if there isn't!

> Einstein actually said 'God does not play dice'. By the way - which

> Hawking are we talking about?

you're right, i now recall hawking (stephen) said it against einstein

and then later exclaimed that 'not only does god play dice, but he also

throws them into parts of the universe where he can't see them'.

the point i was making, is that there is (provable? - to a select

few on this planet!) room for both...

i think kerouac realised this (in his own way) and thus developed his

style of spontaneous prose from the 'chance' element rather than 'lets

plan this' element. make any sort of sense?

apologies if this sounds like bullshit but i'm young and have much to

learn.

> Have a good time in Spain...!

i'm trying,

- not that it's very difficult ;-)

> Simon Okotie

> e-mail: simon@okotie.demon.co.uk

> tel: +181 830 3604

> 22 The Avenue

> Queen's Park

> London

> NW6 7YD

> UK

is this really such a good idea?

you're home telephone number _and_ home address!

there's some crazy mothers out there

- dice that 'god' didn't even know he'd thrown never mind couldn't see!

lock you're doors & kind regards

joe

'all truth is simple - is that not a compound lie?'

- f.nietzsche

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 11:43:14 -0600

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: sjcahn <c659663@SHOWME.MISSOURI.EDU>

Subject: Re: rant rave oops

In-Reply-To: <951214160325_100106.1102_EHQ69-2@CompuServe.COM>

On Thu, 14 Dec 1995, Joe wrote:

> if there is 'no destiny', _everything_ is pure chance/accident/

> circumstance etc., then logically there must be 'no god'.

> remember the principle of logic is True/False, Yes/No etc.

Though I'm an advocate of "let's talk about the texts" I couldn't let

this comment go by-- logic just ain't logical any more-- dialectical

thinking has been, well "deconstructed." There is no true without false,

yes without no, self without other-- and, I guess, god without chance.

wow. kept that short.

yrs. &c.

steven cahn

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 15:16:32 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Whatuv@AOL.COM

Subject: Re: Fwd: Virus ALERT !!!!!!!!!!!!...

Comments: To: BoomShenka@aol.com, Elder#m#_Bo@msgate.apple.com,

bastein@imap2.asu.edu, creeps@pipeline.com, jgold@instinet.com,

Ganyard#m#_Joye@msgate.apple.com

Comments: cc: ZMDJ65A@prodigy.com, cooling@students.BITNET

This is an OLD example of what's called "Urban folklore", in other words,

CRAP!!

First of all, this is not possible, second of all, it's an old myth that's

been flying around the InterNet for years!!!

Perhaps we should all wear aluminium on our heads to keep out the "alien mind

control lasers" from controling our brains....

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 15:29:38 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Whatuv@AOL.COM

Subject: Re: Fwd: Virus ALERT !!!!!!!!!!!!...

Comments: To: Elder#m#_Bo@msgate.apple.com, bastein@imap2.asu.edu,

creeps@pipeline.com, jgold@instinet.com,

Ganyard#m#_Joye@msgate.apple.com, Little#m#_Mike@msgate.apple.com

Comments: cc: ZMDJ65A@prodigy.com, cooling@students.BITNET

Also, feel free to check out the following newsgroups on the InterNet :

alt.folklore.urban

alt.planning.urban

alt.urban.folklore

as they have all sorts of information on these sorts of things....

again, the myth is crap, totally UNTRUE, and in fact impossible to do the

things the original message claims it can do. The info was also condemned as

crap by both America On Line (a LONG time ago!!) & by someone at the FCC.

Sorry if the info scared anyone, but, hey, there's a lot of crappy info out

there, and lots of people constantly making up more new crap for lots of

various reasons, so, be careful about what you choose to believe in ( which

is a DAMN GOOD idea anyway!)

Love to all,

Daniel

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 14:46:57 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Elder, Bo" <Elder#m#_Bo@MSGATE.APPLE.COM>

Subject: Re: Fwd: Virus ALERT !!!!!!!!!!!!...

Comments: To: bastein@imap2.asu.edu, BoomShenka@aol.com, creeps@pipeline.com,

jgold@instinet.com, Whatuv@aol.com, "Ganyard, Joye"

<Ganyard#m#_Joye@msgate.apple.com>

Comments: cc: cooling@students.BITNET, ZMDJ65A@prodigy.com

What's a virus?

_______________________________________________________________________________

From: Whatuv@aol.com on Thu, Dec 14, 1995 12:23 PM

Subject: Re: Fwd: Virus ALERT !!!!!!!!!!!!...

To: Elder, Bo; Ganyard, Joye; BoomShenka@aol.com; bastein@imap2.asu.edu;

creeps@pipeline.com; jgold@instinet.com

Cc: BEAT-L@cunyvm.cuny.edu; ZMDJ65A@prodigy.com; cooling@students

This is an OLD example of what's called "Urban folklore", in other words,

CRAP!!

First of all, this is not possible, second of all, it's an old myth that's

been flying around the InterNet for years!!!

Perhaps we should all wear aluminium on our heads to keep out the "alien mind

control lasers" from controling our brains....

------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------

Received: by msgate.apple.com with SMTP;14 Dec 1995 12:12:53 -0700

Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com ([152.163.172.66]) by

federal-excess.apple.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA01320; Thu, 14 Dec

1995 12:16:27 -0800

From: Whatuv@aol.com

Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA13500; Thu, 14 Dec 1995

15:16:32 -0500

Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 15:16:32 -0500

Message-ID: <951214151631_90272103@mail02.mail.aol.com>

To: BoomShenka@aol.com, Elder#m#_Bo@msgate.apple.com, bastein@imap2.asu.edu,

creeps@pipeline.com, jgold@instinet.com,

Ganyard#m#_Joye@msgate.apple.com

cc: BEAT-L@cunyvm.cuny.edu, ZMDJ65A@prodigy.com, cooling@students

Subject: Re: Fwd: Virus ALERT !!!!!!!!!!!!...

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:33:37 -0600

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Lauren Syrek <hamonrye@BASIC.NET>

Subject: Politics as usual

Comments: cc: nat2@lehigh.edu, vgarcia@goliat.ugr.es, tonninjm@PLU.edu,

kirkmoe@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu, dada@occ4.oakton.edu, faeryfire@aol.com,

hpark4@aol.com, pks@safco.com, jme@safco.com, amj@safco.com,

jdi@safco.com, james90s@aol.com, bobgoss@aol.com,

heidemca@webster2.websteruniv.edu, marytodd@uic.edu

The credit belongs to _Mother Jones_/Alan Dundes. These jokes appear in the

Jan/Feb '96 issue.

________________________________________________________________________________

Ex-governor Jerry Brown walks into a bar with a frog on his head.

He sits down and orders a drink. The bartender sees the frog on his head

and asks, "What the hell happened to you?"

The frog replies, "It all started with a wart on my ass."

Said Mrs. Nixon to Mrs. Kennedy on the eve of the 1960 election, "I

slept with the future president of the United States, last night," to which

Mrs. Kennedy responded, "That Jack will do anything for a vote."

Richard Nixon, Jimmy Carter, Gary Hart and Joe Biden are on a boat.

It begins to sink. Immediately, Jimmy Carter leaps to his feet and says,

"Save the women and children!"

Nixon replies, "Fuck the women and children."

Hart says, "Have we got time?"

Biden says, "Have we got time?"

What's the title of Gary Hart's new book? _Six Inches Away from the

Presidency_.

Did you hear Joe Biden is writing his memoirs? It's called _Iacocca_.

Have you heard the one about the new Regan typewriter? It has no

memory or colon.

Ronald Regean calls OJ Simpson after the not-guilty-verdict and

says, "Congratulations. You must be glad this whole mess is over. When the

hullabaloo dies down, you must really come over and have dinner with me and

Nancy."

"Why thank you, Mr. President," OJ answers. "I'd be honored."

"Certainly," Regean replies. "And by all means, bring Nicole."

Bill and Hillary are driving to Arkansas. Needing gas, they pull

over. Hillary excuses herself to the ladies' room. After filling the tank,

Bill goes looking for Hillary and is surprised to see her talking

animatedly with the gas station attendant. Stunned, he watches as she gives

the attendant a big hug and a kiss on each cheek.

"What was that all about," Bill asks when she returns to the car.

"Oh," explains Hillary, " I went to high school with that guy. In

fact, I think I dated him at one time. We were catching up on old times."

"Well," observes Bill, "I guess if you had married him, you'd be

pumping gas today."

"Oh no," says Hillary, "If I married him, he'd be the president of

the United States."

________________________________________________________________________________

Happy Holidays.

***Bite me.

Laurie

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:27:37 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: sf chronicle

On Nov. 29 Andrew Burnett noted that a series of articles in th 11/26

San Francisco Chronicle could be accessed at

http://www.sfgate.com/programs/waisgate. I've been unsuccessful in

finding this site through the URL or Netscape's search engines. I did

find the Chronicle for the 26th but got an empty menu. Has anyone been

able to find and download these articles? If so, can you offer any

advice?

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:14:13 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Blaine Allan <ALLANB@QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA>

Subject: Re: sf chronicle

In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:27:37 EST from <WXGBC@CUNYVM>

On Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:27:37 EST Bill Gargan said:

>On Nov. 29 Andrew Burnett noted that a series of articles in th 11/26

>San Francisco Chronicle could be accessed at

>http://www.sfgate.com/programs/waisgate. I've been unsuccessful in

>finding this site through the URL or Netscape's search engines. I did

>find the Chronicle for the 26th but got an empty menu. Has anyone been

>able to find and download these articles? If so, can you offer any

>advice?

Here's how I found it today.

http://www.sfgate.com/chronicle/index.shtml gets you the front page,

which includes a link to "Previous Editions." That gets you a link

to the Sunday 26 November 1995 edition, and the Beat articles can be

found in the "Pink" pages.

Seems to me I found a more direct route before, but this seems the

least complicated now.

Blaine Allan ALLANB@QUCDN.QueensU.CA

Film Studies

Queen's University

Kingston, Ontario

Canada K7L 3N6

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:24:24 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Peter McGahey <PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>

Subject: Lost Generation

Please excuse my late response as I am in the end of semester upheaval.

A few days (weeks?) back someone mentioned the Beats and any connection to

the Lost Generation. I just so happened to be reading the book reviews

Dorothy Parker (Lost generation wit and poet) wrote for _Esquire_

in the late 1950's. In her review of JK's _Subterraneans_ she says:

"the 'how' of the Beat Boys and Girls is of an appalling monotony. Nights

and days flow into one. They go swoon to that music, they get themselves

stoned on beer (which I believe is a possibility in one's tender yeras),

they fight and forget it, they are forever piling into rickety cars and driving

furiously to the far-away house of some unexpecting friend, where they

establish themselves for days. These practices, I admit, were not unknown

on occasion to membersof that Lost Generation you may have heard about, but

such was not their entire way of life; there are among the Lost Generation

those who made fairly important contributions to their times. The Beat

Ones never have to be anywhere , never want to go anywhere except just to

some other place"

Now, some can claim that Scott Fitzgerald has a better claim to be the

voice of the Lost Generation, but Dorothy was as alcoholic and srewed

up as the best of them (except she lived a lot longer). So I guess her claim

here is that since the Beats made this a way of life and the Lost Generation

didn't , they aren't the same.

What do you think?

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:44:02 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Mr. Congeniality" <SIMPKINS@SONOMA.EDU>

Subject: take me off the list

I am terribly sorry to do this to all of you, but I lost the address to tak me

off the list. Please remove me from the list. Thank You.

Love always,

Eric Simpkins

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:52:27 -0800

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject: Re: Lost Generation

At 02:24 PM 12/15/95 EST, you wrote:

>Please excuse my late response as I am in the end of semester upheaval.

>A few days (weeks?) back someone mentioned the Beats and any connection to

>the Lost Generation. I just so happened to be reading the book reviews

>Dorothy Parker (Lost generation wit and poet) wrote for _Esquire_

>in the late 1950's. In her review of JK's _Subterraneans_ she says:

>"the 'how' of the Beat Boys and Girls is of an appalling monotony. Nights

>and days flow into one. They go swoon to that music, they get themselves

>stoned on beer (which I believe is a possibility in one's tender yeras),

>they fight and forget it, they are forever piling into rickety cars and driving

>furiously to the far-away house of some unexpecting friend, where they

>establish themselves for days. These practices, I admit, were not unknown

>on occasion to membersof that Lost Generation you may have heard about, but

>such was not their entire way of life; there are among the Lost Generation

>those who made fairly important contributions to their times. The Beat

>Ones never have to be anywhere , never want to go anywhere except just to

>some other place"

>Now, some can claim that Scott Fitzgerald has a better claim to be the

>voice of the Lost Generation, but Dorothy was as alcoholic and srewed

>up as the best of them (except she lived a lot longer). So I guess her claim

>here is that since the Beats made this a way of life and the Lost Generation

>didn't , they aren't the same.

>What do you think?

I think all this generation stuff is a bunch of made up nonsense anyhow.

The comments of Dorothy Parker here seem to be specifically addressing the

events depicted in the Subterraneans. That the plot of one book could be

seen to exemplyfy the actions of an entire generation is absurd.

I remember Kurt Vonnegut's comment about the line in Howl that said I saw

the best minds of my generation destroyed...Vonnegut comment was that the

best minds of that generation (which was also Vonnegut's) were in

Biochemistry labs.

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 16:17:13 -0600

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Lauren Syrek <hamonrye@BASIC.NET>

Subject: Politics as usual

If anyone is motivated enough to pick up Mother Jones due to my jokes,

they'll see that Gary Snyder has a little essay about the changes in

society during the past 20 years.

I just wanted to lighten the air. My apologies.

>This is a list devoted to discussion of Beat authors. Please refrain from post

>ing messages outside this topic.

(from Bill Gargan)

Laurie

*****Email me if you need my address in London. I'm leaving on the 20th of

January.******

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 16:21:17 -0600

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Lauren Syrek <hamonrye@BASIC.NET>

*************************___________________________$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

"One more thing. Unsubscribe me, please. Your lack of humor and