beat list 1996

bitter regarding the world and system that he figured had dismissed him.

That was an easier pill for him to swallow than accepting the fact that the

team made up of himself, Stella, and Gabrielle (his wife and his mother)

dismissed the rest of the world. Old, tired man who cashed-in in order to

get someone else to take out the garbage.

However, I don't feel he was like that "all his life". Her was insecure,

shy, and distrustful... but the vengeful nature of his attacks against

Ginsberg were pretty much fueled by his later-years Johnnie Walker (and,

remember, that 2/3 of the above team did not like Ginsberg... Jack bowed to

their wishes).

Jim Stedman

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 19:10:20 GMT

Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Dan Barth <Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>

Organization: Redwood Free-Net

Subject: Re: Web Fiction/Poetry Reading

Levi,

Best of luck. Hope it doesn't suck.

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 19:07:09 GMT

Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Dan Barth <Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>

Organization: Redwood Free-Net

Subject: Re: Ginsberg question

Thanks for responses to my Ginsberg/Crane query. I think Hart Crane and I

Ching were probably both intended, I was just a little too dense to see it on

my own. That's why I value this list.

Thank you,

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 14:22:07 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: mARK hEMENWAY <mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>

Subject: Kerouac the Athlete

The theme for the 9th Annual Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! Festival is "Jack

Kerouac: Athlete and Scholar" We hope to provide some insight on this very

important part of his life. He was also a terrific baseball player and

runner on the track team. The Town and City and Maggie Cassidy both cover

this aspect as well.

Mark Hemenway

Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!

3-6 October 1996

Everyone comes home in October- OTR

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 15:03:52 -0600

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Leo Jilk <leo.august.jilk@SPARKY.MPS.ORG>

Subject: Re: William S Burroughs lives (fwd)

>----------------------------Original message----------------------------

>From: M D Fascione <m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>

>Subject: William S Burroughs lives

>WSB is indeed still alive. What I would like to know is what he's

>currently up to, what projects he's working on at present if any. Does

>anyone have any thoughts on this?

>-----------------------------------------------------------------------

>Barry Miles' recent bio of Burroughs had some interesting points about

>his recent life (I think it came out in '92ish - it's been awhile since I

>read it). He was and is selling paintings which he makes by shooting

>spray paint cans with guns. Very appropriate I think.

I heard that Kurt Cobain actually cut an album with Burroughs before he

died(Cobain that is). Can anyone verify this? If so, I'd like more info.

--Leo Jilk

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 16:35:52 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Noah Bergman <x95vyk@JULIET.STFX.CA>

Subject: Re: William S Burroughs lives (fwd)

In-Reply-To: <v01530500ad4657dffae3@[204.220.40.100]>

In response to your question about the Kurt Cobain/William Burroughs

disk, I believe it's called "They called him the priest". It's probably

available at any large CD chain story or any independant record store.

-------------------------------------------------------------

I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness...

-------------------------------------------------------------

Noah Bergman

x95vyk@juliet.stfx.ca

Box 730 St. FXU

Antigonish, Nova Scotia

B2G 2X1

(902) 867-2517

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 15:38:50 -0600

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "L.Kelly" <lpk9403@SLEEPY.NEBRWESLEYAN.EDU>

Subject: Re: William S Burroughs lives (fwd)

In-Reply-To: <v01530500ad4657dffae3@[204.220.40.100]>

> I heard that Kurt Cobain actually cut an album with Burroughs before he

> died(Cobain that is). Can anyone verify this? If so, I'd like more info.

> --Leo Jilk

Yes, that's true. It was cut in '92 and released in '93 I think.

Called: The "Priest" They Called Him and published byTim Kerr records,

Portland.

Running time: 11 minutes (I think)

Only buy this if you are a diehard Cobain or WSB fan. It is a good

story by Burroughs, but Cobain's feedback version of Silent Night

simply doesn't complement the reading. That's not to say it isn't

good, but you can tell they didn't collaborate. The album more than

likely resulted from WSB's new commercial fame as well as Cobain's

Nirvana. This is definately a commerical venture.

My grade: B

Time Warner just released a audio book for Naked Lunch.

I have it on order so no opinion yet.

If you really want a good WSB disc, buy Vaudeville Voices

released by Grey Matter records in '93. I bought this in

London and have not seen it in the states. Contains

material from Call Me Burroughs ('65) and Ali's Smile ('70).

Well worth import prices.

Although WSB doesn't call himself a beat (AND HE ISN'T)

I'd be happy to provide any WSB related commentary here.

I've done quite extensive research on the man.

/\ /\ /\ /\ | Luke Kelly

/\/ \/ \/\/ __o / \/\ | lpk@kdsi.net or

/\ / / \ / \<,_ / \ | lpk9403@NebrWesleyan.Edu

/ / ..... \ ...(_)/-(_).. .. \ | http://www.kdsi.net

Please don't drive. Petrol stinks!| http://Sleepy.NebrWesleyan.Edu:5001

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 15:43:03 -0600

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: daw071@LULU.ACNS.NWU.EDU

Subject: Re: William S Burroughs lives (fwd)

In-Reply-To: <v01530500ad4657dffae3@[204.220.40.100]> from "Leo Jilk" at Feb

13, 96 03:03:52 pm

> I heard that Kurt Cobain actually cut an album with Burroughs before he

> died(Cobain that is). Can anyone verify this? If so, I'd like more info.

> --Leo Jilk

Yeah, that's right. "The Priest, They Called Him" or something like that is

what it's called. I guess that it's just Cobain producing guitar noises while

Burroughs reads. Burroughs has also done stuff with the Disposable Heroes of

Hiphoprisy and appeared in the Ministry video "Just One Fix."

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 10:17:29 +1000

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Duncan Gray <duncang@ENTO.CSIRO.AU>

Subject: William S Burroughs recordings

Ministry released a single called "just one fix". "Just one fix" had some

WSB samples on it. The third track on the single was WSB spoken word, with

Ministry backing and is my personal best WSB release.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Duncan Gray

Stored Grain Research Laboratory

CSIRO Division of Entomology, GPO Box 1700, Canberra ACT 2601

Ph. (06) 246 4178 Fax (06) 246 4202

----------------------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 18:33:03 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: Re: Allen Ginsberg---post beatific

In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 13 Feb 1996 10:44:11 -0500 from

<atrigili@LYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU>

On Tue, 13 Feb 1996 10:44:11 -0500 Tony Trigilio said:

>Noah Bergman writes:

>> I too had a dream about Ginsberg recently. I walked across a prairie in

>> a blizzard to get to this winter resort (on the prairie?!). In the

>> middle of the parking lot was a row of bookshelves. I kept looking

>> through the piles of books on the beat generation there but couldn't find

>> a thing on Ginsberg. The surly librarian (who rather reminded me of a

>> linebacker) kept threatening to pound me into the ground based on my

>> limited knowledge of Ginsberg. Help me...what has he done since the

>> sixties?

>Noah--

>The *Collected Poems* will take you up to 1980. I enjoyed *Cosmopolitan

>Greetings* (1992), his most recent collection. As one would expect from

>any volume of poetry, *C. Greetings* has some uneven spots, but as a

>whole it seems a nice continuation of Ginsberg's adaptation of language

>to breath, and of his fusion of Eastern and Western consciousness. Last

>year he did a reading tour for his latest publication of journals,

>*Journals, Mid-Fifties: 1954-1958*. I saw him read from the book here

>in Boston, and by my observation he was gracious and energetic. Hope

>this helps.

>Best,

>Tony

You should also read White Shroud, a kind of companion poem to Kaddish.

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 18:38:10 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: Kerouac after 1957

Kerouac wasn't a saint but I don't think it's fair to call him a "creep

and a loser." He liked to drink, he couldn't handle fame, and sometimes

he may have letdown his friends, but he continued to write and to

publish a number of good books. He was human like the rest of us.

Let's not be too hard on him.

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 20:33:19 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Chanda J Pearmon <cjpearmo@MHC.MTHOLYOKE.EDU>

Subject: Re: beat writers, current status

In-Reply-To: <311FBDF4@sdcwinb.daytonoh.attgis.com>

On Mon, 12 Feb 1996, Ritter, Chris D wrote:

> Kerouac, No; Ginsberg, Yes, and struggling.

how is Ginsberg struggling?

/|\ ))_(( /|\

/ | \ (/\|/\) / | \

|-|------/--|-voV---\`|'/--Vov-|--\------|-|

|-| '^` (o o) '^` |-|

|-| Morpheus `\Y/' |-|

|-| cjpearmo@mhc.mtholyoke.edu |-|

|-| http://home.mtholyoke.edu/~cjpearmo |-|

|-| |-|

|-| "Come back, come back, come back |-|

|-| today. Come back, come back, |-|

|-| come back to stay..." |-|

|-|______________________________________|-|

l /\ / ( ( \ /\ l

l / V \ \ V \ l

l/ _) )_ \I

`\ /'

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 20:43:55 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch <PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>

Subject: Re: beat writers, current status

Ginsberg suffers, I believe, from diabetes. I have friends who see him

occasionaly and they tell me he looks very frail. His schedule at Naropa and

Brooklyn College (I think he teaches there) has been cut back a great deal.

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 20:52:57 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Noah Bergman <x95vyk@JULIET.STFX.CA>

Subject: howl for a nameless generation

I think I've come up with a new version of Howl suitable for a generation

so weak it's name is the antithesis of a unified lable.

I saw the best minds of my generati....no i didn't

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 21:44:19 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Chanda J Pearmon <cjpearmo@MHC.MTHOLYOKE.EDU>

Subject: Re: Hello

In-Reply-To: <960212225550_142687148@mail06.mail.aol.com>

On Mon, 12 Feb 1996, Carl Luoma wrote:

> I just wanted to introduce myself, I am new to this list. I joined it

> because I read On the Road and fell in love with the beats. So, here I am.

> not much else to say at this point.

I guess i'll do the same. I'm new to the list. I started out with

Ginsberg journals, which i found fascinating...then moved onto on the

road....then to jack's letters...absolutely wonderful. jack is my hero.

I was gonna do an independent study on him this semester, but couldn'

find a prof to work with... :)

thass all for now..

/|\ ))_(( /|\

/ | \ (/\|/\) / | \

|-|------/--|-voV---\`|'/--Vov-|--\------|-|

|-| '^` (o o) '^` |-|

|-| Morpheus `\Y/' |-|

|-| cjpearmo@mhc.mtholyoke.edu |-|

|-| http://home.mtholyoke.edu/~cjpearmo |-|

|-| |-|

|-| "Come back, come back, come back |-|

|-| today. Come back, come back, |-|

|-| come back to stay..." |-|

|-|______________________________________|-|

l /\ / ( ( \ /\ l

l / V \ \ V \ l

l/ _) )_ \I

`\ /'

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 22:19:13 -0600

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Matthew S Sackmann <msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>

Subject: Re: howl for a nameless generation

Comments: To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"

<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.EDU>

In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.91.960213215105.131183A-100000@juliet.stfx.ca>

Hello fellow beat lovers. I must admit that i am new to the beat scene,

but over the last half of a year ive spent lots of time researching them,

mostly jack and allen, i visit the music library frequently to listen to

the Kerouac box set, which is great! It's kerouac reading excerpts from

his books, poems, and essays. Sometimes he has jazz musicians playing in

the background. If you think Kerouac is great read wait till you hear him.

I've read 'On the Road' (my fav. book EVER; Hemingway, Shakespeare, they

all pale in comparison) "Desolation Angels' (beautifully written but much

more depressing than OTR), and countless number of his essays.

Ginsberg- Howl, America, and dozens of other of his poems). Any advice

on what to read next? I'm thinking 'Naked Lunch,' or 'Dharma Bums.'

This is all for now.

*****************************************************************************

Matthew Stephen Sackmann-still bathin' in the sun down here in the Big Easy

"the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live,

mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time,

the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn

like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the

stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody

goes 'Awww!'"

-from "On the Road" by Mr. Kerouac.

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 02:25:05 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Kerouac's football career

Especially for information on how his sports "career" ended and he made the

jump into the literary world, a good reference is the book of his "Letters."

ed. by none other than Ann Charters, of course. Some of his early

correpondance deals with this subject specifically.

BTW - it's nice to see you back again, Critter!

Liz

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 10:06:45 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Mark Fisher <Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>

Subject: Counting with Cassady

The Arthur & Kit Knight book, "Beat Angels" has an accounting of Neal

Cassady's death from a friend of his, who was one of the last people

to see him alive. Good read with presumed photo of tracks where Neal

fell.

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 10:20:57 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Peter McGahey <PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>

Subject: howl for a nameless generation (fwd)

----------------------------Original message----------------------------

I think I've come up with a new version of Howl suitable for a generation

so weak it's name is the antithesis of a unified lable.

I saw the best minds of my generati....no i didn't

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

If you are referring to Generation X in this statement, I feel it my duty

to inform you that the list decided that, obvious connections aside, this

topic is inappropriate to this list.

That's all I can say about it.

Peter

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 10:26:08 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Peter McGahey <PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>

Subject: Kerouac after 1957 (fwd)

----------------------------Original message----------------------------

He liked to drink, he couldn't handle fame, and sometimes

he may have letdown his friends, but he continued to write and to

publish a number of good books. He was human like the rest of us.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm glad you said this. As I'm sure you all are well aware, I have a

problem with the Beats being veiwed as merely folks who led "cool" lives.

No matter how much of a bigot, anti-semite or asshole Jack was, he wrote

wonderful books and that's what he wanted to be remembered as. Much like

Salinger's decision to exclude himself as a personal figure, Jack wanted

to be a writer remembered for his work, not his lifestyle.

What do you think?

Peter

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 07:58:26 -0800

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Steve Smith <psu06729@ODIN.CC.PDX.EDU>

Subject: Re: Kerouac after 1957

In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%96021318413293@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

On Tue, 13 Feb 1996, Bill Gargan wrote:

> Kerouac wasn't a saint but I don't think it's fair to call him a "creep

> and a loser." He liked to drink, he couldn't handle fame, and sometimes

> he may have letdown his friends, but he continued to write and to

> publish a number of good books. He was human like the rest of us.

> Let's not be too hard on him.

You are quite right and I thank and applaud you for saying so. I was

trying mightily to get out of the tangle of my anger and sadness caused by

some of those attack posts so that I could respond appropriately. You've

saved me the effort. Thanks. Hurrah for Jack.

Best,

Portland State University

Portland, OR

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 18:40:02 +0000

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "col. it's steve" <VOSHEA@DIT.IE>

Subject: wsb and cobain

burroughs did cut a single with cobain titled "they call him priest" but

im not sure about an album. If they did cut an album i'm certain Geffen

would have cashed in on it at this stage.

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 14:56:07 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Mark Fisher <Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>

Subject: Re: howl for a nameless generation (fwd)

Comments: To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@uunet.uu.net>

----------------------------Original message----------------------------

I think I've come up with a new version of Howl suitable for a generation

so weak it's name is the antithesis of a unified lable.

I saw the best minds of my generati....no i didn't

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

If you are referring to Generation X in this statement, I feel it my duty

to inform you that the list decided that, obvious connections aside, this

topic is inappropriate to this list.

That's all I can say about it.

Peter

What other topics does the beat list consider inappropritate?

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 15:08:18 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Noah Bergman <x95vyk@JULIET.STFX.CA>

Subject: Re: Kerouac after 1957

In-Reply-To: <Pine.PTX.3.91.960213161455.11645A-100000@odin.cc.pdx.edu>

Saying that Kerouac was only human in defense of his less than model

behaviour makes me think of an interesting point. Maybe his being just

slightly "more human" than most of us in his faults allowed him to

capture humanity more brilliantly in his work.

-------------------------------------------------------------

I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness...

-------------------------------------------------------------

Noah Bergman

x95vyk@juliet.stfx.ca

Box 730 St. FXU

Antigonish, Nova Scotia

B2G 2X1

(902) 867-2517

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 15:07:16 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Trevor D. Smith" <V116NH27@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>

Organization: University at Buffalo

Subject: WSB Questions

Hello all:

In an effort to enlighten myself, I recently began Ted Morgan's

WSB biography, _Literary Outlaw: The life and times of WSB_.

For those of you not familiar with it, I can advise:

Get a copy!! It is superb reading (it practically reads like

a novel), is thoroughly researched and is one of the best

biographies I have ever read (I've read bunches). I just

can't seem to set it down.

I am about halfway through it and have a handful of questions.

To save some bandwith, let me pose the one I am most interested

in having aswere: between his Harvard schooling, and travels (exiles)

in a myriad of countries, did WSB speak/read/write any language

other than english?? He intended to study medicine in Vienna

(and, according to Morgan, could read "some" German)

and quotes himself using spanish words throughout _Junky_,

but otherwise there are no allusions to his foreign

language abilities.

Bill Jr. makes fun of his old man's French (I think?) in

_Kentucky Ham_ (if I recall correctly), but I wonder how

substantiated this may be.

As usual, I would be thrilled with any answers or pointers.

Trevor Smith

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 20:19:28 GMT

Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Dan Barth <Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>

Organization: Redwood Free-Net

Subject: the decline of Kerouac

Well I think you guys (the first two who posted) are painting it pretty black.

In fact I love Kerouac all the way through, even to his sad alcoholic end.

And there are those who knew him in Florida and Northport in his later years

who certainly enjoyed his company. And all through his life people liked Jack

and enjoyed being around him. Burroughs always looked forward to seeing him,

Ginsberg and Holmes valued his friendship. Check out *The Kerouac We Knew*

and *Kerouac at the Wild Boar* edited by John Montgomery for a variety of

views. Also Holmes' book *Visitor: JK in Old Saybrook* is good. Lots of

differing views on as complex a character as Kerouac, and no doubt many

negatives as you guys have pointed out, but I wouldn't have minded hanging

out with the man at any point in his life.

Cheers,

P.S. Joyce Johnson's book *Minor Characters* is good on the effect of fame on

Kerouac.

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 15:14:15 -0600

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "L.Kelly" <lpk9403@SLEEPY.NEBRWESLEYAN.EDU>

Subject: Re: WSB Questions (language)

In-Reply-To: <01I17H3FDAIQ8WWQ4D@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>

On Wed, 14 Feb 1996, Trevor D. Smith wrote:

> in a myriad of countries, did WSB speak/read/write any language

> other than english?? He intended to study medicine in Vienna

> (and, according to Morgan, could read "some" German)

> and quotes himself using spanish words throughout _Junky_,

> but otherwise there are no allusions to his foreign

> language abilities.

In Barry Miles' WSB biography, it is hinted that WSB learned

languages in order to survive. Makes sense. I've never

heard of any extensive non-English studies that he has

done. After all, words are the enemy ;)

Dead City Radio has a track on it called Falling in Love

Again in which WSB sings (kind of) in German. I get the

impression that he's drunk but maybe it's a combonation

of poor singing and German language skills.

I remember reading a bit in the above mentioned

biography (which I think puts Literary Outlaw to shame on

theoretical merit) that WSB learned various dialects of

Arabic for simple tasks (boys) and I also remember a

quotation from WSB saying that all one really needs

to know in a foreign language is how to buy things . . .

but I couldn't tell you where I read that.

Also, with the Spanish aspect of language, I would be

willing to bet that it is WSB's strongest language

other than English due to time spent near and in Mexico and

classes taken (on and off) on regional dialects.

Also, it makes sense to me that Spanish sneaks into

his prose due to the fact that he bases a good deal

of his material on the Maya. Not to mention, lots of

Spanish words mix nicely with English.

Hope that gives a few basic pointers. And BTW,

if you're interested yet after "Outlaw", I recomend

Miles' "El Hombre Invisible: A portrait".

Most of the ideas here are by recall and may not be 100% accurate.

Regards,

Luke

/\ /\ /\ /\ | Luke Kelly

/\/ \/ \/\/ __o / \/\ | lpk@kdsi.net or

/\ / / \ / \<,_ / \ | lpk9403@NebrWesleyan.Edu

/ / ..... \ ...(_)/-(_).. .. \ | http://www.kdsi.net

Please don't drive. Petrol stinks!| http://Sleepy.NebrWesleyan.Edu:5001

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 16:44:19 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Carl Luoma <Filosipher@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: William S Burroughs lives (fwd)

In a message dated 96-02-13 16:20:01 EST, you write:

> heard that Kurt Cobain actually cut an album with Burroughs before he

>died(Cobain that is). Can anyone verify this? If so, I'd like more info.

> --Leo Jilk

Yes, I know he and kobain did do something together. but I was told that all

kobain does is play noise guitar over burroughs reading. I am not sure what

the album name is mebbe it was "the priest they call him" I may be wrong

even on that particular title.

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 16:47:18 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Carl Luoma <Filosipher@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: William S Burroughs lives (fwd)

In a message dated 96-02-13 16:52:50 EST, you write:

>Although WSB doesn't call himself a beat (AND HE ISN'T)

>I'd be happy to provide any WSB related commentary here.

>I've done quite extensive research on the man.

I would love to learn more about him. I did a report on him is school as

well so I have some knowlege on him. I find him a very interesting man.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 00:10:19 +0000

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Alan Maddrell <apm5@ABER.AC.UK>

Subject: The Priest They Called Him - WSB

The "Priest" They Called Him

from Exterminator

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Fight tuberculosis, folks." Christmas Eve an old junkie selling Christmas

seals on North Clark Street, the "Priest" they called him. "Fight

tuberculosis, folks."

People hurried by grey shadows on a distant wall it was getting late and no

money to score he truned into a side street and the lake wind hit him like

a knife. Cab stopped just under a street light boy got out with a suitcase

thin kid in prep school clothes familiar face the Priest told himself

watching from the doorway reminds me of something a long time ago the boy

there with his overcoat unbuttoned reaching into his pants pocket for cab

fare. The cab drove away and turned the corner. The boy went into the

building hummm yes maybe; the suitcase was there in the doorway the boy

nowhere in sight gone to get the keys most likely have to move fast. He

picked up the suitcase and started for the corner made it glanced down at

the case didn't look like the case the boy had or any boy would have the

Priest couldn't put his finger on what was so old about the case, old and

dirty poor quality leather and heavy better see what's inside he turned

into Lincoln Park found an empty place and opened the case. Two severed

human legs had belonged to a young man with dark skin shiny black leg hairs

glittered in the dim street light. The legs had been forced into the case

and he had to use his knee on the back of the case to shove then out.

"Legs yet" he said and walked quickly away with the case might bring a few

dollars to score.

The buyer sniffed suspiciously. "Kinda funny smell about it . . . is this

Mexican leather?"

The Priest shruged.

"Well some joker didn't cure it." The buyer looked at the case with cold

disfavor. "Not even right sure he killed it whatever it is three is the

best I can do and it hurts but since this is Christmas and you're the

Priest" $ $ $ He slipped three notes under the table into the Priest's

dirty hand.

The Priest faded into the street shadows seedy and furtive three cents

didn't buy a bag nothing less than a nickel say remember that old auntie

croaker told me not to come back unless I paid him the three cents I owe

isn't that a fruit for you to blow his stack about three lousy cents.

The doctor was not pleased to see him. "Now what do you want ? I told you .

. ." The Priest laid three bills on the table. The doctor put the money in

his pocket and started to scream. "I've had trouble ! The people have been

around! I may lose my license !"

The Priest just sat there eyes old and heavy with years of junk on the

doctor's face.

"I can't write you a prescription!" The doctor jerked open a drawer and

slid an ampoule across the table. "That's all I have in the office !" The

doctor stood up. "Take it and get out !" he screamed, hysterical. The

Priest's expression did not change and the doctor added in quieter tones: "

After all I'm a professional man and I shouldn't be bothered by people like

you."

"Is this all you have for me? One lousy quarter g? Couldn't you lend me a

nickle?"

"Get out! Get out! I'll call the police I tell you!"

"All right doctor. I'm going now."

Christ it was cold and far to walk rooming house a shabby street room on

the top floor these stairs/cough/the Priest there pulling himself up along

the banister he went into the bathroom yellow wood panels toilet dripping

and got his works from under the washbasin wrapped in brown paper back to

his room get every drop in the dropper he rolled up his sleeve. The he

heard a groan fom next door room 18 a Mexican kid lived there the Priest

had passed him on the stairs and saw the kid was hooked but he never spoke

becasue he didn't want any juvenile connections bad news in any language

and the Priest had had enough bad news in his life heard that groan again a

groan he could feel no mistaking that groan and what it meant maybe an

accident or something any case I can't enjoy my priestly medications with

that sound coming through the walls you understand the Priest put down his

dropper cold hall and knocked on the door of room 18.

" Quien es ?"

"It's the Priest, kid. I live next door."

He could hear someone hobbling across the floor a bolt slide and the boy

stood there in his underwear shorts eyes black with pain. He started to

fall. The Priest helped him to the bed.

"What's wrong son?"

"It's my legs senor ... cramps ... and now I am without medicine."

The Priest could see the cramps like knots of wood there in the young lean

legs dark shiny black leg hairs.

"Three years ago I have damaged myself in a bicycle race it is then that

the cramps start and ..."

And he has the leg cramps with compound junk interest. The old Priest stood

there feeling the boy groan. He inclined his head as if in prayer and went

back and got his dropper.

"It's just a quarter g kid."

"I do not require much senor ." The boy was sleeping when the Priest left

room 18.He went back to his room and sat down on the bed. Then it hit him

like heavy silent snow, all the grey junk yesterdays. He sat there and

received the immaculate fix and since he was himself a priest there was no

need to call him one.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 20:49:32 -0600

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "L.Kelly" <lpk9403@SLEEPY.NEBRWESLEYAN.EDU>

Subject: More WSB ascii

In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%96021419114568@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

"Hemingway"

A selection from _The_Adding_Machine_Selected_Essays_

by William S Burroughs

(includes comments on JK and cross-applicable theory

on other beats)

**********************************************************

" Hemingway "

From _THE_ADDING_MACHINE_Selcted_Essays

by William S. Burroughs

Liberated from the traditional forest-destroying

"BOOK" on January 10, 1996.

**********************************************************

In writing the old-style novel, there was a more or less clear-cut

technology and aim. It had a beginning, a middle, and an end. It

had plot, it had chapters that maintained suspense, one chapter

ending with a suspense situation which led to another chapter on

a different character, then back to the suspense situation, building

to a climax. The aim was basically to entertain the readers and to

sell books. Critics still criticize authors for not writing novels of

this sort, even when the novelist is not attempting to do so. Now

painting and writing are split into schools and movements. The

technology and aim of one movement may be quite different from

those of another - if you are doing mobiles, the silkscreen tech-

nology of Pop Art is of no use.

Now consider some writers who have said something about the

technology of writing. Other writers may not say anything di-

rectly, but their concept of aim and technology may be implicit in

the work that is done. I have previously mentioned Graham

Greene; he is frankly horrified at the thought of formulating a

technology of writing. "Evelyn Waugh was my very good friend,

but we never discussed writing. " This is the English game, of

course; talk about the weather, talk about anything so long as it

isn't important. Not much help from Mr. Greene - go to Down-

side, become a bad Catholic and talk about the weather. He

definitely does represent the Gatsby point of view.

There are some do's and don'ts. The sound of the first sentence

often determines if anyone will read the book or not. Here's a

really atrocious first sentence: "Herr [that unpronounceable

name], Hereditary Commander and Chief of the Fleet of Droco,

Fisher of the Westem Seas, leader in sacrifice, an oracle of the

stars, spread his wings and brought them together again in an

astonishing thunderclap. " First of all, he has an incomprehen-

sible if not unpronounceable name, he has too many titles, and he

already has wings. It's all right if he has wings, but you've got to

lead up to it.

Now to quote another first sentence, this time one that makes

it: "Jon Ominar," (easy to pronounce) "Emperor of the East,"

(only got one title) "reclined in his garden, watching a man being

prepared for slow impalement. "

Hemingway has quite a lot to say about writing. He started

writing of course as a joumalist, which he considered very valu-

able training. He says use short words and short sentences, al-

though he doesn't always do this by any means. He uses short

words, but in very long sentences sometimes. He said to look at

the person or object in front of you and transcribe what you see.

He also developed a number of exercises, like describing a scene

from a viewpoint, then removing the viewpoint and leaving the

description. It's as if I described everyone in my class from this

viewpoint, then removed myself and just left the description.

Take out the "1. " What his technology boils down to, however,

is how to write Hemingway.

The same thing is true of Kerouac and Wolfe. Kerouac had the

idea that the first draft was always the best. You should just let

the mind flow and type away, and never change it. Well, that's

all right for him, but it's not my way of writing. I told him that.

I revise. It's how to write Kerouac. And Wolfe is much the same.

Hemingway has been admired and praised by critics for things

that he did not do. The Sun Also Rises has been acclaimed as the

definitive statement of the Lost Generation. It wasn't. There's

more of the 1920s in one page of Fitzgerald than in the whole of

Hemingway. That wasn't what Hemingway was doing, and he

can't be criticized for that. He wasn't evoking a period the way

Fitzgerald was.

Hemingway has been described as a master of dialogue. He

isn't. No one talks like people talk in Hemingway's novels except

people in Hemingway's novels. John O'Hara, not nearly as good

a writer, is much more a master of dialogue than Hemingway.

You know when you read John O'Hara that that's something he

actually heard someone say.

Perhaps it's unfair to say that there's nothing in Hemingway

except Hemingway, but that's really the way I feel about it. It's

not exactly a criticism, because that's what Hemingway was

doing. Hemingway had such a distinctive style that he was

trapped in it forever. Nevertheless I think Hemingway came

closer to writing himself in present time, closer to writing his life

and death, than any other writer. Of course Mishima wrote about

hara kiri and then later committed it. A French writer of detective

stories wrote "Then he walked across the room, opened the

window, and jumped out." After typing these lines, he walked

across the room, opened the window, and jumped out. Well,

that's cheating. I mean, Hemingway wrote his death as a char-

acter, not as an actor. The difference being, anybody can write

"And then he shot himself" and then shoot himself, if he is

prepared to do this. I'm talking about someone who writes "And

then he was shot" and is himself shot by someone else. That's

the trick.

All his life Heniingway was plagued by strange incidents. A

skylight fell on him in Paris, he broke his toe kicking a gate in,

he gaffed a shark and while shooting it in the head with his Colt

Woodsman .22, with which he could unerringly shatter wine

bottles at 100 feet, the gaff broke and he shot himself in both

legs. A lady hunter nearly blew his head off with a shotgun.

Several auto accidents; concussion after concussion. The pica-

dors are at work.

Hemingway could smell death. He suddenly left a chateau

which he said had the stink of death about it, and after he left, the

chateau was bombed and several people killed. And he could

smell death on others. I have already related incidents.

Hemingway wrote himself as a character. He wrote his life and

death so closely that he had to be stopped before he found out

what he was doing and wrote about that. There is the moment

when the bull looks speculatively from the cape to the matador.

The bull is leaming. The matador must kill him quick. Two plane

crashes in a row, both near Kilimanjaro. The matador has to

smash his head against the window of a buming plane. Otherwise

he would have found out why two planes crashed near Kiliman-

jaro; he wrote it. He wrote it in The Snows of Kilimanjaro, where

Death is the pilot. "He was pointing now, white white white as

far as the eye can see ahead, the snows of Kilimanjaro." That's

the last line.

He who writes death as the pilot of a small plane in Africa

should beware of small planes in Africa, especially in the vicinity

of Kilimanjaro. But it was written, and he stepped right into his

own writing. The brain damage he sustained butting his way out

of the buming plane led to a hopeless depression and eventually

to his suicide. He put both barrels of a 12-gauge shotgun, no. 6

heavy duck load, against his forehead and tripped both triggers.

Fix yourself on that: "White white white as far as the eye can see

ahead . . . the snows of Kilimanjaro."

And unlike the French detective writer, Hemingway wasn't

cheating by the act of suicide. He was dead already.

Now suppose you had all the works of a particular writer and

could only take some with you, which would be the first you'd

throw away? I would get rid of No Man Is an Island, For Whom

the Bell Tolls, Across the River and into the Trees, The Green

Hills of Africa, and Death in the Afternoon. In Across the River

etc. he was writing himself close, but it was not good - not good

at all. It is just about the worst of Hemingway's books.

But I would certainly keep The Snows of Kilimanjaro, which

remains one of the greatest stories about death ever written, be-

cause he wrote his own death in that story. Perhaps he was too

much of an egoist to write anything else.

Hemingway talks about looking at what is in front of you.

Well, a young man who wanted to leam how to write went

fishing with Papa Hemingway and asked him about writing. Papa

replied, "Try to figure out why I cussed you out ten minutes ago

and how the sun looked on the side of that marlin I just caught. "

But between Hemingway's eyes and the object falls the shadow

of Hemingway.

Korzybski says the creative process takes place when you look

at an object or a process in silence. And this I think is especially

true of dialogue. If you can look at a character without talking,

from inner silence, then your character will talk, and you get

realistic dialogue. Take something that you actually heard some-

one say, then let him say that and took at him; pretty soon he'll

say some more in the same lines. I remember this amazing used

car salesman, from Houston. He was the one who told me "You

know all a Jew wants to do is doodle a Christian girl, you know

that yourself." Well, I didn't say anything, but if I sat him down

right here, he could say a lot more along the same lines, I'm sure.

But Hemingway didn't give his characters a chance to talk. He

always talked for them, and they all talk Hemingway. Take The

Killers; it reads well, a good story, and very carefully assembled.

The dialogue sounds good, but how good is it? Here are the two

killers waiting around for the Swede, gassing meantime with the

counterman in this diner.

"What do they do in this town?"

"They eat the dinner. They all come here and eat the big

dinner. "

"That's right" says the counterman.

"He says that's right."

And then they're leaving, they're deciding whether they're

going to kill the counterman or not.

"What about sonny boy?"

"He's all right."

"You've got a lot of luck. You should play the races."

Of course, these last lines are purely Hemingway. And some-

one, maybe the counterman, says about the Swede: "He's cow-

ering in his room." Also:

"I can't bear to think of him just laying there, knowing

he's going to get it."

"Well you'd better not think of it then."

It's stylized. The killers never really get off the page, you can't

really see them. They don't come across with any real menace to

the reader.

*********************************************

Brought to you by Brave Souls Anonymous.

Lincoln, Nebraska

/\ /\ /\ /\ | Luke Kelly

/\/ \/ \/\/ __o / \/\ | lpk@kdsi.net or

/\ / / \ / \<,_ / \ | lpk9403@NebrWesleyan.Edu

/ / ..... \ ...(_)/-(_).. .. \ | http://www.kdsi.net

Please don't drive. Petrol stinks!| http://Sleepy.NebrWesleyan.Edu:5001

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 22:05:04 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Ted Pelton <Notlep@AOL.COM>

Subject: Jack'sfootballcareer

JackhimselftalksitinVisionsofDulouzanotgreatbook

onthewholebutwithsomegreatmoments.Sorry--thisisn'tintendedasartistry,there'sso

methingwrongwithmykeyboard.Butthenincorporatingaccidentisthematictothelist,no?

TedPelton

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 01:32:09 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Peter McGahey <PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>

Subject: Burroughs-Priest

In tune with all the priest stuff -

Wasn't Bill's character in _Drugstore Cowboy_ a junkie priest?

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 09:29:20 +0000

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: M D Fascione <m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>

Subject: Burroughs-Priest (fwd)

In tune with all the priest stuff -

Wasn't Bill's character in _Drugstore Cowboy_ a junkie priest?

Yes that's right, and a fine job Bill does of it too. Check out the

Junkie's Christmas from the Interzone collection, this is a similar

storyline to that of Priest.

Anyone catch Bill's appearance in Van Sant's Even Cowgirls Get the Blues,

or the aids awareness movie 'And the Band Played On', both fairly recent

films.........

How ya doin' Alan.....

Daniel

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 09:37:06 +0000

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: M D Fascione <m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>

Subject: WSB Naked Lunch