beat list 1996

Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 10:09:27 -0400

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From: nappodd2 <nappodd2@ALPHA.SHIANET.ORG>

Subject: love and death

>I'm struck by the frequency in Kerouac's work of a connection between his

>relations with women and thoughts of death. For example, in OTR, after

>leaving a women and her child after working with her picking fruit in

>California, he refers to the "mournful" Susquehana river. Is it just my

>imagination, or did Kerouac frequently connect his attraction to women with

>thoughts of death? Could this be related to his Catholicism? Fitzgerald,

>also a Catholic, seems to have made the same connection, to a lesser

>extent.

I don't think it's just your imagination. Perhaps this tendency to

go immediately from thoughts of love to thoughts of death with women is more

than a topos as old as literature itself, but reflects Kerouac's consistent

dedication to the only one he ever loved w/o reservation--his mother. I

don't know if it could also be related to Catholicism; however, I know

Hemingway (not Fitzgerald) once said, "Every time you make love with a woman

you die a little bit."

After reading this comment, I immediately referred to the end of The

Subterraneans where Mardou dumps him. I couldn't find any clear evidence of

thoughts of death, though. If anything, the break-up of the relationship

spurred him into tha activity writing the book ("And write this book.").

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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 11:54:06 EDT

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From: "Glover, Albert" <AGLO@MUSIC.STLAWU.EDU>

Subject: Re: love and death

In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of Wed, 05 Jun 1996 10:09:27 EDT

For something explicit you might check out section 68 of

Desolation Angels (part of the burlesque scene) which ends:

And Sarina will die--

And I will die, and you will die, and we all will die,

and even the stars will fade out one after another in time.

One old strategy for defeating death -- no birth!

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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 15:46:19 -0400

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From: Mitchell Smith <Kerolist@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Beat Publications

The Kerouac Connection publishes essays on the Beats as well as poetry, book

and record reviews, historical information, news of current events, etc.

Last issue had critical essays from the NYU conference on Gregory Corso,

Allen Ginsberg, and Jack Kerouac as well as a Bukowski memorial section and

poetry by Lawrence Ferlinghetti and Harold Norse.

Subscriptions are $20 for 4 issues (foreign orders may send personal checks

in your nation's equivalent of $20--no cash please). Single issues can be

obtained for $5. If you wish to order both issues on the NYU Conference (#27

& 28), you can prepay $9 for both (or indicate that you want a 4 issue

subscription for $19). Checks made payable to The Kerouac Connection. The

magazine address is:

The Kerouac Connection

PO Box 462004

Escondido, CA 92046-2004

I hope to hear from you in the near future, and thank you for your interest.

Mitchell Smith, Editor

The Kerouac Connection

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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 17:04:46 -0400

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From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject: Re: love and death

> I don't think it's just your imagination. Perhaps this tendency to

>go immediately from thoughts of love to thoughts of death with women is more

>than a topos as old as literature itself, but reflects Kerouac's consistent

>dedication to the only one he ever loved w/o reservation--his mother. I

>don't know if it could also be related to Catholicism; however, I know

>Hemingway (not Fitzgerald) once said, "Every time you make love with a woman

>you die a little bit."

> After reading this comment, I immediately referred to the end of The

>Subterraneans where Mardou dumps him. I couldn't find any clear evidence of

>thoughts of death, though. If anything, the break-up of the relationship

>spurred him into tha activity writing the book ("And write this book.").

>If what Hemingway said (above) was true Neal Cassady would have been dead

by 25. I'm sure your right that he loved his mother w/o reservation but

don't you think he truly loved Carolyn C. and did, if I must use the term

"learn to love" Stella. He also said he immediately fell in love with Edie

Parker after he watched her eat what was it like five sourkrout hotdogs.(YUM

I'm getting hungry).What a bizarre attraction. By the way off the topic I

heard Paul Krassner (publisher of The Realist) has a new book out. Anyone

picked it up yet? Reviews? Phil

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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 19:08:03 -0400

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From: nappodd2 <nappodd2@ALPHA.SHIANET.ORG>

Subject: true love/sauerkraut

>If what Hemingway said (above) was true Neal Cassady would have been dead

>by 25. I'm sure your right that he loved his mother w/o reservation but

>don't you think he truly loved Carolyn C. and did, if I must use the term

>"learn to love" Stella. He also said he immediately fell in love with Edie

>Parker after he watched her eat what was it like five sourkrout hotdogs.

Sauerkraut dogs do sound good right now. Yeah, I'm sure Kerouac really did

love Carolyn and Stella (I feel uncomfortable speculating on such a thing).

On the other hand, whenever he had a fight with them, or broke off a

relationship with anyone else, he went right back home to Memere. All I

know (or think I know) about Kerouac is through his books and the main bios

(Nicosia, Clark, Charters). While his novels do not reveal it much, all the

bios portray him as a man inordinately attached to his mother. Especially

Charters.

Cassady died trudging along some railroad tracks in Mexic--and he

was only 42. Maybe there is something to Hemingway's remark...

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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 17:56:04 EST

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From: "J.D. P. Lafrance" <J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>

Organization: Ridley College

Subject: John Clellon Holmes - Hip or Square?

I was just browsing through the Dennis McNally Beat/Kerouac bio, DESOLATE

ANGEL and came across some interesting comments on John Clellon Holmes...

McNally seems to suggest that Holmes' various articles on The Beat Generation

were basically an outsider looking in - that Holmes wasn't really a core member

of Kerouac, Ginsberg, Burroughs, et al. And then I was thumbing through Holmes'

book NOTHING MORE TO DECLARE and he almost seems to say as much... because he

had a family and all that, he couldn't go around the country like Kerouac and

Cassady... so, is Holmes really a Beat? or is McNally's book just reeking of

elitism....?

bfn,

JDL

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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 20:46:12 -0600

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From: George Morrone <gmorrone@PROLOG.NET>

Subject: Re: Kerouac, Love & Death

>Reply to Liz Prato:

>>I'm struck by the frequency in Kerouac's work of a connection between his

>>relations with women and thoughts of death. For example, in OTR, after

>>leaving a women and her child after working with her picking fruit in

>>California, he refers to the "mournful" Susquehana river.

>Could you point out other examples?

It's a general impression I got from his writings; the first example I came

across (almost at random, looking for something to quote for you) was in

"The Dharma Bums," on page 28:

... couldn't believe my eyes when I saw Japhy and Alvah taking their

clothes off and throwing them every whichaway and I looked and Princess was

stark naked... "Here's what yabyum is, Smith" said Japhy ... "Take your

clothes off and join in, Smith!" ... I'd gone through an entire year of

celibacy based on my feeling that lust was the direct cause of birth which

was the direct cause of suffering and death... "Pretty girls make graves"

was my saying ...

Well, excuse me, under the circumstances that's NOT what I'd say; even if I

didn't want to participate.

>(The "mournful Susquehana" quote: gm) in itself doesn't specifically show

>a connection between women and death. "Mournful" is a word used to convey

>sorrow, and sorrow can be felt over any loss, not just death. Paradise just

>left a woman that he loved - of course he felt grief and sorrow. Kerouac

>would hardly be the first (or last) person to draw a parallel between the

>grief felt when suffering the loss of a romantic relationship and the grief

>felt over the death of a loved one.

In context, the connection seems pretty strong: I live in Harrisburg and

it's not a "cursed" city; just not very exciting apart from the occasional

nuclear mishap.

OTR p. 103:

It was the night of the Ghost of the Susquehanna. ... We walked seven miles

along the mournful Susquehana. It is a terrifying river. It has bushy

cliffs on both sides that lean like hairy ghosts over the unknown waters.

Sometimes from the railyards across the river rises a great red locomotive

flare that illuminates the horrid cliffs. ... comes the day of the

Laodiceans, when you know you are know you are wretched and miserable and

poor and blind and naked, and with the visage of a gruesome grieving ghost

you go shuddering through nightmare life.

I live two blocks from the river, and trust me, it's not mournful, or

terrifying; the ridges of the Appalachian mountains don't look like hairy

ghosts and are not horrid. I'm reminded of an Italian movie, "The Meadow,"

where the field changes from paradisical when the hero is in love to

infernal when he's not, but its the same meadow all along.

Did Kerouac feel that he had abandoned Terry and her son, and does that

account for the extravagant language? Was he likely to get drunk as a

result, to dull the pain? This is only way I can understand his choice of

words in the preceding quote. Maybe by "pretty girls make graves" he meant

they were a temptation to sin and thus spiritual death. In James Joyce's

"Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man," Stephen Dedalus' struggles with

his sexuality as he attempts to remain a good Catholic. There, the

connection between lust and spiritual death is made pretty explicit by the

priest who recounts for young Dedalus and his classmates the horrors of

hell while on a retreat.

George

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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 23:55:54 -0400

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From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject: Re: Kerouac, Love & Death

At 08:46 PM 6/5/96 -0600, you wrote:

>>Reply to Liz Prato:

>>>I'm struck by the frequency in Kerouac's work of a connection between his

>>>relations with women and thoughts of death. For example, in OTR, after

>>>leaving a women and her child after working with her picking fruit in

>>>California, he refers to the "mournful" Susquehana river.

>>Could you point out other examples?

>On The Road p.103:

>It was the night of the Ghost of the Susquehanna. ... We walked seven miles

>along the mournful Susquehana. It is a terrifying river. It has bushy

>cliffs on both sides that lean like hairy ghosts over the unknown waters.

>Sometimes from the railyards across the river rises a great red locomotive

>flare that illuminates the horrid cliffs. ... comes the day of the

>Laodiceans, when you know you are know you are wretched and miserable and

>poor and blind and naked, and with the visage of a gruesome grieving ghost

>>>>>>>>>>

<<<<<<<<<<

This has Doctor Sax all over it...terrifying river...like hairy

ghosts over unknown waters...the river rises like a great red

locomotive...wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked, and with

the visage of a gruesome grieving ghost you go shuddering through nightmare

life.

I feel it's his childhood.Lowell. Doctor Sax lurking about. The

Merrimack again . The rage of the river as when the big Lowell flood wiped

out his father's print shop and more. The thoughts of that scary raging

river taking away. Taking away (loss or death) seems to bring him back. He

leaves this women and her child and then he goes back "You go shuddering

through nightmare life..." Phil

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Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 06:56:38 EDT

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From: "Stedman, Jim" <JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>

Subject: Re: John Clellon Holmes - Hip or Square?

Comments: To: BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@INTERBIT.CREN.NET

In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of Wed, 05 Jun 1996 18:56:04 EDT

I've always felt that the elitism was JCH's. Perhaps he saw himself, or

self-appointed himself, as the group's chronicler. He certainly didn't

seem to spend much time in the city, though.

I am drawing a blank as far as how he first got associated with Jack and

AG... though the story is told in one of his books.

Jim

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Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 08:40:08 GMT2

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From: Marais van den Berg <MARAIS@ENGL.UOVS.AC.ZA>

Organization: University of the Orange Free State

Subject: Re: ALLEN GINSBERG Autographed Books available--

How much for the "Yage Letters" Have you any idea what mail to South

Africa costs? I would really like to have this book. Let me know

please

Marais van den Berg

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Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 09:30:52 EDT

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From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: Re: John Clellon Holmes - Hip or Square?

In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 5 Jun 1996 17:56:04 EST from

<J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>

No question, Holmes is an important member of the Beat Generation. He

was part of the original New York group in and around Columbia in the

1940s. In fact, his essays in The New York Times Magazine (excerpted in

the 100th anniversary issue) and Esquire helped to define the

generation. His roman a clef, Go, was the first published work to give

voice the group, unless you credit the later chapeters of K's T&C.

Holmes NYC apartment was, for a brief period, a meeting place for

Kerouac, Ginsberg, Alan Harrington and others. But Holmes didn't remain

at the center very long -- moving to Old Saybrook after his marriage to

Shirley. Hewasn't traveling around the country with Neal and Allen and

Jack. He didn't really participate in the San Francisco Renaissance

that brought increased media attention to the Beats. Then again,

neither did Burroughs. Holmes and Kerouac remained friends until the

end of Jack's life as evidenced in their correspondence. Holmes was a

pall bearer at K's funeral. In his teaching at Arkansas, in the writing

he did until the end of his life, and in the generous support he gave

Beat scholars, Holmes helped keep the Beat flame alive throught the

1970s and 1980s.

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Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 08:58:44 +0000

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From: "John W. Hasbrouck" <jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>

Subject: Re: John Clellon Holmes - Hip or Square?

J.D. P. Lafrance wrote:

> I was just browsing through the Dennis McNally Beat/Kerouac bio, DESOLATE

> ANGEL and came across some interesting comments on John Clellon Holmes...

> McNally seems to suggest that Holmes' various articles on The Beat Generation

> were basically an outsider looking in - that Holmes wasn't really a core

member

> of Kerouac, Ginsberg, Burroughs, et al. And then I was thumbing through

Holmes'

> book NOTHING MORE TO DECLARE and he almost seems to say as much... because he

> had a family and all that, he couldn't go around the country like Kerouac and

> Cassady... so, is Holmes really a Beat? or is McNally's book just reeking of

> elitism....?

> bfn,

> JDL

In an interview during the movie "What Happened to Kerouac?" J.C.Holmes

describes

himself as a kind of "migraine-headache intellectual". I consider his novel "Go"

to be

"virtually canonical" within the world of Beat lit. It's not a perfect, but it's

fun,

and the whole gang (mostly) is there. Holmes' descriptions and fictionalized

dialogue

of Neal Cassady (and Jack and Allen) fit squarely into Beat Myth.

Is he really a Beat? This question keeps coming up in regards to various artists

rather than complain about it I'll just play along. My vote is an unqualified

YES, WHY

NOT?. My reason is that I consider the term BEAT to be quite large. "(It)

contains

multitudes..." (WW).

John H.

Chicago

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Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 09:14:10 +0000

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From: "John W. Hasbrouck" <jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>

Subject: Re: John Clellon Holmes - Hip or Square?

Here's an odd bit of trivia regarding J.C.Holmes:

After "Go" was finished, Allen Ginsberg, whose character is perhaps the

most prominent character in the book, apart from the narrator, wrote in

a letter to Neal Cassady that Holmes' new book was "no good". Ginsberg

made this judgment after reading the book in manuscript.

Allen was a bit harsh, I would say, especially considering Holmes

sometimes refered to "Go" as his "book about Allen".

John H.

Chicago

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Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 12:00:19 EDT

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From: mARK hEMENWAY <mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>

Subject: Re: John Clellon Holmes - Hip or Square?

I recommend his book "Nothing to Declare". It's a collection of character

sketches of the memebers of the beat scene, famous and otherwise. It has a

fabulous ring of authenticity and truth to it.

Mark Hemenway

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Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 11:33:02 EST

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From: "J.D. P. Lafrance" <J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>

Organization: Ridley College

Subject: Re: John Clellon Holmes - Hip or Square?

John W. Hasbrouck writes:

In an interview during the movie "What Happened to Kerouac?" J.C.Holmes

describes himself as a kind of "migraine-headache intellectual". I consider his

novel "Go" to be "virtually canonical" within the world of Beat lit. It's not a

perfect, but it's fun, and the whole gang (mostly) is there. Holmes'

descriptions and fictionalized dialogue of Neal Cassady (and Jack and Allen) fit

squarely into Beat Myth.

Is he really a Beat? This question keeps coming up in regards to various artists

- rather than complain about it I'll just play along. My vote is an unqualified

YES, WHY NOT?. My reason is that I consider the term BEAT to be quite large.

"(It) contains multitudes..." (WW).

I'm not doubting or complaining whether Holmes was a Beat or not (whatever the

nebulous term implies) I think the fact that he and Kerouac originated the term

is evidence enough... but I find it interesting that he really fell out of the

group just as it was getting momentum and after they migrated to San

Francisco... as it has been said before, this is probably due in part to the

fact that Holmes was now a family man and all but I wonder if he really felt a

part of the wild scene that Kerouac, Ginsberg, et al. belonged to?

bfn,

JDL

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Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 11:28:29 EST

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From: "J.D. P. Lafrance" <J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>

Organization: Ridley College

Subject: Re: John Clellon Holmes - Hip or Square?

John W. Hasbrouck writes:

Here's an odd bit of trivia regarding J.C.Holmes:

After "Go" was finished, Allen Ginsberg, whose character is perhaps the

most prominent character in the book, apart from the narrator, wrote in

a letter to Neal Cassady that Holmes' new book was "no good". Ginsberg

made this judgment after reading the book in manuscript.

Allen was a bit harsh, I would say, especially considering Holmes

sometimes refered to "Go" as his "book about Allen".

It's interesting that you mention Ginsberg's negative comments on "Go"... in

that McNally book, he mentions Kerouac's reaction to the book and he didn't like

it either, or rather he was jealous I think... but then later on if you listen

to the "Is There A Beat Generation?" track in "The Jack Kerouac Collection,"

Kerouac, as an aside, mentions "Go" as a "good book" so, perhaps his feelings

toward the book as they often did towards Holmes had changed...

bfn,

JDL

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Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 15:51:28 -0400

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From: Neil Hennessy <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject: New York City June 17-19

Does anyone (Levi?) know if there is anything interesting in the way of

readings\literary events going on in New York on any of those days? I'm

doing a trade show there, first time in New York, would love to find out

if Corso or Ginsberg were, by some magical coincidence, reading those days.

Cheers,

Neil

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Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 16:20:26 EDT

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From: mARK hEMENWAY <mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>

Subject: Re: New York City June 17-19

THe NY Public Library, Berg Collection is Displaying manuscripts of 100

authors in honor of the Library's 100th anniversary. Part 2, now on

display, is the modern set, including a lot of Kerouac. Call 212-869-8089.

It's in the Berg Exhibition Room #318, 5th Ave and 42nd st. Tues and Wed

11AM-6PM, Thursday-Saturday 10AM-6PM. It's Free.

Mark Hemenway

Dharma beat

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Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 16:20:28 -0400

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From: Ron Whitehead <RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: New York City June 17-19

Hello Neil! I believe Allen (& Diane di Prima) will be at Naropa.Give Peter

Hale a call at Allen's office & he can let you know for sure: 212/675/0288 or

FAX 212/675/1686. Or get your hands on copy of current Village Voice. All the

Best, Ron Whitehead 6/06/96

4:19PM RWhiteBone@aol.com

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Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 21:04:06 -0400

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From: Ron Whitehead <RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>

Subject: AG's off. #

Hello! Ya know I can be a regular dumb fuck with big mouth which I utilize

often for inserting both feet. I was privately called down by list member (I

won't name) for giving out AG's off.# in reply to earlier inquiry bout

possible AG GC NYC reading in June. I have privately apologized for divulging

info I probably shouldn't have given out but I spoke before I analyzed (why

do I always see anal when I see that word) so I want to publicly apologize

(pluck out his eyes apologize). I stay in hot water for being too open too

honest doing too much. AG advised me once to not bite off more than I could

chew then I went right out & bit off so much I nearly choked to death. AG LF

DdP & others have helped me survive several misfortunes near death

experiences as result of sacrificing way too much to promote poetry. If you

ever see me wandering NYC or any other part of this land or another walking

at fast pace babbling rapidly to myself arms full of scrolls (Published in

Heaven Poetry Posters & other assorted mss) looking lost as hell & like I

haven't eaten for months do me a favor & kick my sorry ass in the river

(Susquehanna, Merrimack, Hudson, Otsego, Green, Rough, Mississippi, Ohio,

Danube etc) & drown me. Thanks! Ron Whitehead

P.S. if any one of you wants me to sign off service just please send

instructions which I no longer have & I'll be outtahere.

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Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 23:31:08 -0400

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From: "Christa D. Neu" <NEUCD@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: AG's off. #

Perhaps this is entirely irrelevant, but I don't think Ron should sign off

the list for an over-zealous error...

Maybe people could simply respect Allen's privacy and not go stomping in

hordes to the phone with thousands of questions; not a big thing to ask at

all when you consider how willingly he has provided the world with his time,

it would seem unfair to demand more of him.

I don't need to go into all of the things Ginsberg has done to earn such

tremendous respect, I just want to suggest that perhaps we could show him

some respect in granting him some privacy; just because we saw a number does

not mean we need to use it.

While sitting under a tree in Naropa in '94, I watched groups of people

approach Gary Snyder who was sitting across the way; each person asked him

essentially the same question...finally he said one of the most draining

things about being well known was the demand everyone makes on your time...

That made quite an impact on me. The writers put their soul down on the

pages, in the letters, and in the interviews. It is all recorded for us to

discover. I then decided that I would always do my research and then if I

had an intelligent question, I may think about approaching the writer for

insight. In reading the work, in watching the performance; there you will

learn more than you could by standing in a line at a reception to have a

personal audience with your hero. And when you do have their attentions;

your chance to ask them anything in the world, don't waste that opportunity

in asking them for an ink scribble that merely signifies proof of contact.

It's a lost moment for all...

I would hope that people could learn to honor the Beat Legacy by working

towards forming the next mutation, as Ed Sanders suggested, contact the "best

minds" of your own generation, and move forward...

Information is more than generously provided by any number of

sources...that's a fundamental part of this list, so hopefully no one will

plague Allen's office with unnecessary requests, and then not much harm will

come from Ron's honest mistake.

My Unsolicted Two Cents,

Christa

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 00:16:25 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>

Subject: Ron (exasperated)!

In a message dated 96-06-07 00:01:33 EDT, Ron writes:

>P.S. if any one of you wants me to sign off service just please send

>instructions which I no longer have & I'll be outtahere.

Hey Ron, take it easy. We all make mistakes, and relatively speaking, this

wasn't a big one.

-Liz

P.S. Keep in mind, we might just like you for who YOU are, not just who you

know. :-)

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 05:52:04 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject: Jan Kerouac

I'm very sorry to announce to the group. I just heard on the Boston morning

news at five AM that Jan Kerouac has passed away. Phil

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 21:01:45 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Jonathan Kratter <jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>

Subject: coors commercial...

Hiyas!

I just saw a coors beer commercial where an ex-con is talking about the

rockies. He talks about a stream where a man can drink from a stream and

know himself...I am sure this was from On The Road, but I just sent my

copy away...can someone look it up for me and tell me if I'm correct?

eternally dreaming,

jonathan

=========================

Jonathan Kratter, Dreamer

"Fantasies are the sugar with which you take the bitter medicine

of life."

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 09:15:28 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: SPOTS OF TIME <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject: Re: Ron (exasperated)!

Look at the bright side, at least you didn't give ot Allen's home phone!

Dave B.

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 09:18:09 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>

Subject: Re: AG's off. #

In-Reply-To: <960606210405_212121692@emout16.mail.aol.com> from "Ron

Whitehead" at Jun 6, 96 09:04:06 pm

> Hello! Ya know I can be a regular dumb fuck with big mouth which I utilize

> often for inserting both feet. I was privately called down by list member (I

...

> haven't eaten for months do me a favor & kick my sorry ass in the river

> (Susquehanna, Merrimack, Hudson, Otsego, Green, Rough, Mississippi, Ohio,

> Danube etc) & drown me. Thanks! Ron Whitehead

i thought i was too critical with myself....hey ron...would never think of

destroying a creative force such as yours...overzealous?...i think of all

who witness without absorbing....who take without giving....to me, not

saying anything at all is more destructive than a slip of the tongue....

and although i am not ginsberg, i think it would be easy for him to forgive

someone who sincerely meant no harm....

last night, ginsberg did a signing....i really loathe the crowds that

have dollar signs in their eyes....i stood on line, not to take, but to

give...a thank you...(he was with a local artist, eric drooker...they

collaborated on a new release...intense disturbing images with ginsberg's

analytical brilliance...)

i must admit that ginsberg was a gift for me after i started reading

kerouac....i never finished howl....this was the reason

for my witnessing this prostitution in a seemingly harmless

barnes and noble....(gaad, can't even write the name without

feeling animosity toward all monopolizing conglomerates)....and i could

feel his frustration with the whole business as well, but the reward for

drooker seemed to make up for it...

and lo, as i approached the newly annointed septogenarian (smirk)

i simply said, "i came here to give...not to take..."

and i handed him my soul the day i read howl....

instead of chastizing yourself for your error in judgement (which is

clearly an effort in futility when it comes to resolving anything) i am

sure you can find a way to give something back....and fuck anyone who

cannot accept that sometimes human beings use poor judgement....life goes on.

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 09:24:14 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: JoAnn Ruvoli <jruvoli@ORION.IT.LUC.EDU>

Subject: Forwarded mail.... -Forwarded (fwd)

FYI.....

Jack Kerouac's Daughter, Jan, Dies After Long Illness

With AP Photo

By RICHARD BENKE

Associated Press Writer

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) -- Jan Kerouac, the novelist daughter of

Beat Generation chronicler and cult hero Jack Kerouac, has died

after a long battle with kidney disease. She was 44.

Jan Kerouac died Wednesday evening at Albuquerque's Lovelace

Medical Center, a day after having her spleen removed, Kerouac

biographer Gerald Nicosia said Thursday.

She suffered kidney failure five years ago and had been on

dialysis ever since, administering self-dialysis as often as four

times a day, Nicosia said in San Francisco.

Born Feb. 16, 1952, in Albany, N.Y., Jan Kerouac wrote much the

same style as her father, with "very vivid sensory evocations,"

Nicosia said.

Her "Baby Driver," published in 1981, dealt with her childhood

in New York's lower East Side during the turbulent 1960s.

"Trainsong" (1988) was about her travels after that first book.

It's named after the community in Eugene, Ore., where her mother

lived.

She had been working on "Parrot Fever," about the 1991 death

of her mother, Joan Haverty, Kerouac's second wife. Nicosia said he

would like to help see it published posthumously.

"Her mother's death hit her really hard. She was her last real

close connection, somebody she could open up to, trust in," he

said.

Jan Kerouac, who met her father only twice -- once during a

paternity lawsuit filed by her mother when she was 10 -- spent her

final years promoting his legacy and battling for control of his

archives.

"Her main intent was to put it into a museum or a library and

preserve it forever. She was ill," Nicosia said, "but she was on

this quest to do something for her father's memory. Now she won't

get to see how it turns out."

In 1994, she sued relatives of Kerouac's last wife, Stella

Sampas, who inherited the notebooks, teletype rolls and parchment

scrolls on which Kerouac wrote "On the Road" and laid down the

first rumblings of post-war alienation that set the tone for the

so-called Beat Generation of the 1950s.

Her lawyer, Tom Brill of Newport Beach, Calif., said trial is

still tentatively set for September in St. Petersburg, Fla.

The plaintiffs contend the will of Kerouac's mother, Gabrielle

Kerouac, leaving her son's effects to Stella Sampas, was a forgery.

Had she died without a will, the estate would have gone to her two

grandchildren, Jan Kerouac and Paul Blake Jr., her daughter's son.

Nicosia said the absence of her father, who died of alcoholism

in 1969, "was a big hole in her life."

"Jan loved him very much and was haunted by not having him and

wanting to get to know him, trying to follow in his footsteps,"

Nicosia said.

He said Ms. Kerouac will be cremated, and hoped to be buried in

the Nashua, N.H., Kerouac family plot, where she had battled in

vain to have her father's remains moved from from Lowell, Mass.

She is survived only by two half-sisters, a half-brother and a

cousin. Twice divorced, she was unmarried at the time of her death

and had no children of her own, Nicosia said.

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 10:46:45 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Neil Hennessy <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject: Autographs

On Thu, 6 Jun 1996 23:31:08 -0400 "Christa D. Neu" <NEUCD@aol.com> wrote:

> And when you do have their attentions;

> your chance to ask them anything in the world, don't waste that opportunity

> in asking them for an ink scribble that merely signifies proof of contact.

> It's a lost moment for all...

and

On Fri, 7 Jun 1996 09:18:09 -0400 Kristen VanRiper

<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU> wrote:

> last night, ginsberg did a signing....i really loathe the crowds that

> have dollar signs in their eyes....i stood on line, not to take, but to

> give...a thank you...

I wonder at the hostility people have towards the practice of asking

authors to sign books. Whenever I have the chance to meet an author I

really admire I ask them to sign a book I own of their's. I have never,

nor will I ever sell any of these volumes. If the author means that much

to me that I would seek them out, or go somewhere to hear them read, I

always have something to say to them. I cannot help but have something to

say. As a writer who has been moved, to be at a loss for words would be

anathema, and for me, a spiritual death. To be unable to respond, to be

unable to give back something of what their work meant to me would be a

betrayal.

As for 'mere proof of contact' every time I open a book and see the

signature and inscription (hopefully a clever one, but sometimes it's so

hard to come up with something charmingly witty on the spot ;-) it is a

welcome and warm reminder of the time and words I have shared.

As a poet with a published chap-book I am always honoured when people ask

me to sign their copy. However small, it is an appreciation for the words

I have given them, and a request that I make the gift of my words personal.

I guess I've never had 2 hundred people lined up at a Barnes & Noble to

have my autograph without more than a, "I really love your work..."

I cannot help thinking of a poem by Mark Harrison from _Hero of the Play_

where he talks of the fan's quest for his hockey hero's autograph. He

builds it like a mystic phenomenon, a desire for the magical inscription

on the face of a card, ending with the simple phrase, detached from the

rest of the poem, emphasized with italics,

I love you, give me your name

(I have done Harrison an injustice, because I can't convey the power, the

building momentum of the poem towards those final lines, but I hope

wherever he is he can forgive me since his words affected me so deeply

that I tried, however inadequately, to convey my feelings on it.)

An autograph is a gift, which I am always grateful to receive, and always

honoured to give.

As for Ron's error, since I was the one who asked for the info, rest

assured that I will go through polite channels, and will not usurp the

information mistakenly given. You are lucky to be able to know these

people, and I would never do anything to jeopardize your relationship

with them.

I leave you with the oft-quoted line from Derrida:

"When I sign, I am already dead."

Jacques Derrida

Stay Warm,

Neil

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 10:13:57 +0000

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "John W. Hasbrouck" <jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>

Subject: Re: Autographs

Regarding autographs...

Autograph-hound that I am, I cherish my paperback Portable Beat Reader which

currently

contains no less than 14 autographs of various Beat writers whose work is in the

book. I

love to sit and read it at my huge, L-shaped walnut desk which is, incidently,

signed

(on the inside of a drawer) by its previous owner, philosopher Mortimer J. Adler

(who is

NOT a beat).

John H.

Chicago

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 11:16:41 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Claire Davison <Claire_Davison@FPKLON.CCMAIL.COMPUSERVE.COM>

Subject: Jan Kerouac's death

What are the circumstances surrounding Jan Kerouac's death?

I didn't even know she was ill, she was only in her 40's wasn't she??

Claire

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 09:11:37 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>

Subject: Re: New York City June 17-19

In-Reply-To: <Pine.ULT.3.91.960606154821.6094A-100000@noether.math.uwaterloo.ca> from "Neil Hennessy" at Jun 6,

96 03:51:28 pm

> Does anyone (Levi?) know if there is anything interesting in the way of

> readings\literary events going on in New York on any of those days? I'm

Wow, I wish you asked this 2 days ago. Ginsberg read last nite at

Barnes & Noble in Union Square, and the night before Robert Creeley

read at St Mark's Church. But I don't know anything else. THere's

one real answer to this question -- get the Village Voice every

wednesday.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com

Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/

(the beat literature web site)

Queensboro Ballads: http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/

(my fantasy folk-rock album)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Let's head back to Tennessee, Jed

----------------------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 11:33:19 CDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: beep <MULBPOLL@MIZZOU1.BITNET>

Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac's death

In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 7 Jun 1996 11:16:41 EDT from

<Claire_Davison@FPKLON.CCMAIL.COMPUSERVE.COM>

Hi fellow Beats.

I would also appreciate any info surrounding Jan Kerouac's apparent

sudden death. I am an editor for a university library literary

magazine and would like to do either a small article or filler for

the July/August issue.

Thanks,

beep

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 12:49:23 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Ron Whitehead <RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>

Subject: Jan Kerouac

Hello! Yes Jan Kerouac, a beautiful and brilliant person, is dead. Only a

handful of people realized, or chose to believe, the grave nature of her

illness(es). Some thought her problems were being glorified in order to aid

her lawsuit gainst the Kerouac Estate when in fact she really was deathly ill

& wished more than anything to reach an agreement with Sampases which would

insure that her father's work be kept together in one place where all could

share in viewing & studying. Jan's life was tragic. I hope more people will

become aware of her as a person thru her work. I will do what I can to help

in that area. A couple weeks ago I finished production of new Published in

Heaven Poster by Jan with incredible Chris Felver photo (which will also be

included in Chris' new Angels, Anarchists, & Gods to be released in

conjunction with NOrleans event) of Jan at her father's grave in Lowell, Mass

plus poem by her titled "Natasha."

Also, as part of New Orleans Event there will be a Jan Kerouac panel

discussion with Gerald Nicosia, Diane di Prima & others. Plus I am Guest

Editor of TRIBE magazine's August issue (release July 31st/August 1st) which

will focus on event cover to cover with features on Burroughs, Ferlinghetti,

di Prima, Ed Sanders, David Amram, Robert Creeley, Lee Ranaldo, plus many

others plus I am including a Tribute to Jan Kerouac with complete dedication

text by Gerald Nicosia & poem by Jan. In case you missed the event is called:

RANT for the literary renaissance & The Majic Bus present Voices Without

Restraint 48-Hour Non-Stop Music & Poetry INSOMNIACATHON at The New Orleans

Contemporary Arts Center & The Howlin Wolf Club August 16-18. I'm in middle

of wrapping up booking & other preparations plus deadlines for TRIBE & will

be back in New Orleans round 18th for few days but I will post list of

performers & more event info in week or two.

May Jan Kerouac's sweet & precious soul be blessed forever! Ron Whitehead

6/06/96 12:48PM

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 13:33:59 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: mARK hEMENWAY <mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>

Subject: Re: Autographs

I guess one has to experience the voracious rudeness of the crowds that

literally mob Allen Ginsburg whenever he sits down in a public place. We

are not talking about a line 200 people, rather a mob of 200 crowded

around pushing books in his face for signature. I think he is pretty

generous to give the time and attention he does.

Mark Hemenway

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 14:35:54 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: JoAnn Ruvoli <jruvoli@ORION.IT.LUC.EDU>

Subject: Re: Autographs

In-Reply-To: <vines.47J8+4U4ilA@S1.DRC.COM>

I would have to agree. I've seen him read a couple of times, and

even when the crowd was calm and cooperative, the shear number of people

that show up can cause logistical problems. One reading was held in a

small space at a Waterstone's and the seating ran out immediately.

Getting Ginsburg to the mike and back was handled poorly, and while he

tried to accommodate the crowd, it was clear that he was upset. His

reading was still very exciting dispite the problems.

JoAnne

On Fri, 7 Jun 1996, mARK hEMENWAY wrote:

> I guess one has to experience the voracious rudeness of the crowds that

> literally mob Allen Ginsburg whenever he sits down in a public place. We

> are not talking about a line 200 people, rather a mob of 200 crowded

> around pushing books in his face for signature. I think he is pretty

> generous to give the time and attention he does.

> Mark Hemenway

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:28:40 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Jim Stedman <jstedman@NMU.EDU>

Subject: Re: Autographs

Allan gave a reading up here in Marquette, Michigan, quite some time ago.

My buddy and I went to the reading, which had an early intermission to

allow the American Association of University Women representatives a chance

to sneak out the side door. We also were invited to the reception following

this.

The reception was at a friend's house, and Allen seemed pretty damned

comfortable talking and visiting. I pulled one of Arthur and Kit Knight's

first books, _The Beat Generation_, out of my bag, and when Allen saw it he

said, "Where the hell did you find that thing???"

I asked if he'd mind just signing hhis name, and he turned to a page that

showed the McDarrah photo of (according to the caption) "Allen, blowing a

kiss".

"Shit," he said, "I wasn't blowing a kiss."

"I was making a proposition to the photographer..."

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 18:12:18 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: Ron's boo boo

No need to list the list Ron! All of us have pressed that little send button a

time or two without thinking about what we were doing.

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:12:00 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Jonathan Kratter <jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>

Hi!

I have noticed some animosity towards Barnes and Nobles on this list. I

think that is totally, completely, and utterly uncalled for. Barnes and

Nobles is a first rate chain of bookstores that carries the widest

variety of books availiable to most of the general public. True, the

Stanford Bookstore does have a wider selection (as do most college

bookstores, I assume) but when I can't run all the way down to Stanford,

Barnes and Nobles is the only chain that's ever heard of Allen Ginsberg.

As beat fans, we should be especially grateful that B&N has as many beat

books as they do. The local B. Dalton had nothing by Ginsberg and all of

four books by Kerouac. Barnes and Nobles has an entire row devoted to

poetry.

I know some people may feel animosity simply because Barnes and Nobles is

driving the smaller chains out of existence, but on the other hand, B&N

is large, well stocked, with knowledgable employees, and generates

a sufficient volume of sales to allow people to browse in the store for

several hours. No one there cares if you sit down and read an entire

book cover-to-cover - they know that you'll probably by something. No

obnoxious sales persons come and harass you. Aside from just Beat, B&N

has a well stocked fiction and non-fiction area that carries more than

the latest Tom Clancy or Anne Rice book.

So let's stop being so idealistic and acknowledge a good thing when we

see one.

Jonathan

=========================

Jonathan Kratter, Dreamer

"Fantasies are the sugar with which you take the bitter medicine

of life."

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:47:38 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject: Jan Kerouac's death-Lowell Sun

Headlines in the Lowell Sun - Kerouac's daughter dies after operation

Died (age 44) following an operation to remove her spleen...went into

cardiac arrest Wednesday...had been in the hospital much of last month.

Nicosia said.

She had planed to travel to Lowell in October for a speaking engagement at

Middlesex community college. She was her father's daughter "in too many

ways" said Nicosia. "She tried to live his life. She never really knew him,

and that was the only way she could find him. It haunted her all her life,

since childhood when her mother would always talk about him. It left a hole

in her life."...she carried on a legal battle which will continue her lawyer

said yesterday....The suit contends that the will of Kerouac's mother