beat list 1996

Gabriel was a forgery. Jan's lawyer Tom Brill told a wire service reporter

"we're going forward with the lawsuit " which is tentatively set for Sept.

in St. Petersburg Florida... She asked to be buried in he Kerouac plot in

Nashua N.H.. Deborah Bower of Albuquerque is handling the funeral

arrangements which are incomplete. said Nicosia... This goes on and on ...

"We are deeply saddened by this unexpected turn of events," said the Sampas

family in a statement. Further the AP wire had said that the Sampas family

would allow her request to be buried in Nashua.

Please don't shoot the messenger I'm just reporting what was said in the

Lowell Sun and on the AP news. The Lowell Sun article is pretty extensive so

if you want a copy here is their address Phil

Lowell Sun

15 Kearney Square

Lowell, MA 01852

508-458-7100

=========================================================================

Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 10:47:42 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "J. Gardner" <jag@RAHUL.NET>

Subject: Re: Beat Publications

Why is gratitude appropriate for what is a coldcut business decision on

B&N's part?

They do what they do solely for business reasons --in this case to be

considered a "cultured bookstore" -- to assume otherwise would be the

unrealistic thing.

I dont have a problem with that, but gratitude? I will never be grateful for

a culture turned upside down.

Regards

Jim Gardner

>Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:12:00 -0700

>From: Jonathan Kratter <jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>

>Subject: <No subject given>

>Hi!

>I have noticed some animosity towards Barnes and Nobles on this list. I

>think that is totally, completely, and utterly uncalled for. Barnes and

.....

>As beat fans, we should be especially grateful that B&N has as many beat

>books as they do.

Jonathan

=========================================================================

Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 14:03:46 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac

As we ponder Jan's death, let us be thankful for her two fine books and her

dedication to the best parts of her father's great, but flawed legacy.

I don't know if ONLY the good die young, but it sure seems like it sometimes.

To what extent do people feel that deep, searing pain seems to be a

pre-requsite for great literature?

I hope Jan was happier in her later years. Did the Kerouac groupies (I say

that non-perjoritively) bring Jan any joy or was she just all the more

tortured given the recent controversies?

Howard Park

=========================================================================

Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 14:03:41 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>

Subject: Autographs

I like to get my books signed. The main thing is just to be cool about it.

Don't shove the stuff in Allen's face (or whomever)...wait until the crowd

dies down a bit...have something interesting to say.

If people are cool, my experience that the beats (for that matter, other

authors, etc) will enjoy signing books. And if they just get tired and

refuse, no big deal.

Howard Park

=========================================================================

Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 17:30:11 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Perry Lindstrom <LindLitGrp@AOL.COM>

Subject: Jan K.

It's times like this that I wish I didn't have my digest function on as I

would imagine there are many messages out there about Jan Kerouac's death at

such a tragically young age. The picture that was in the NYTimes obit would

indicate she was an extraordinarily beautiful woman. Did she succumb to the

same disease that killed her father? I have been lurking of late and working

on my own writing, but I noticed that there was a thread on Kerouac, women

and death -- ironic that this should be taking place at this time.

Perry Lindstrom

=========================================================================

Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 23:32:43 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject: Jan Kerouac memorial service

I found this posted on the rec.arts.books.marketplace news group of all

places. I don't know where they got it from but I assume it's accurate. Phil

Jan Kerouac, daughter of Jack Kerouac passed away June 6. A memorial service

will be held at Prince of Peace Catholic Church, Albuquerque, N.M. 87122 at 6

pm, June 10.

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:58:37 +1000

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: JENS MOELLENHOFF <JMOELLEN@NW80.CIP.FAK14.UNI-MUENCHEN.DE>

Subject: BELATED :-)) THANKS

Hi you all,

Thank you so much for these lots of mails concerning the word

"BELATED".

I was just worrying if this mailing list is the right place for asking

silly questions about the English language. So I feel like saying

sorry to all those who really want to kill me because of this mistake

of mine.

I hope this will be the last mail concerning this topic. Let's move on

to some Beat-related topics again.

Cosmopolitan Greetings,

Jens

Jens Moellenhoff

Email:jmoellen@nw80.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de

Internet:http://www.fak14.uni-muenchen.de/~jmoellen/ (German Language)

University of Munich, Germany

*** Language is a Virus from Outer Space ***

*** William S. Burroughs ***

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:15:50 GMT

Reply-To: steven.dean@vuw.ac.nz

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Steve Dean <steven.dean@VUW.AC.NZ>

Subject: Evergreen Review (Vol 2 No 8 Spring 1959)

all

was just sending this off to a pal and not knowing if its been

anthologised or is on a webpage - thought i'd send a copy here - its a

jk piece from the Evergreen Review Magazine (Vol 2 No 8 Spring 1959)

page 57 <apologies if you all know it>

steved

<>?<>/<>?<>?<>/<>?<>/<>?<>/<>?<>/<>?<>/<>?

JACK KEROUAC

Belief & Technique for Modern Prose

List of Essentials

1. Scribbled secret notebooks, and wild typewritten pages, for yr

own joy

2. Submissive to everything, open, listening

3. Try never get drunk outside yr own house

4. Be in love with yr life

5. Something that you feel will find its own form

6. Be crazy dumbsaint of the mind

7. Blow as deep as you want to blow

8. write what you want bottomless from bottom of the mind

9. The unspeakable visions of the individual

10. No time for poetry but exactly what is

11. Visionary tics shivering in the chest

12. In tranced fixation dreaming upon object before you

13. Remove literary, grammatical and syntactical inhibition

14. Like Proust be an old teahead of time

15. Telling the true story of the world in interior monolog

16. The jewel centre of interest is the eye within the eye

17. Write in recollection and amazement for yourself

18. Work from pithy middle eye out, swimming in language sea

19. Accept loss forever

20. Believe in the holy contour of life

21. Struggle to sketch the flow that already exists intact in mind

22. Don't think of words when you stop but to see picture better

23. Keep track of everyday the date emblazoned in yr morning

24. No fear or shame in the dignity of yr experience, language &

knowledge

25. Write for the world to read and see yr exact pictures of it

26. Bookmovie is the movie in words, the visual American form

27. In Praise of Character in the Bleak inhuman Loneliness

28. Composing wild, undisciplined, pure, coming in from under,

crazier the better

29. You're a Genius all the time

30. Writer-Director of Earthly movies Sponsored & Angeled in

Heaven

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 20:54:32 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject: Lowell Sun News-KEROUAC ARCHIVES "CRIPPLED"

Lowell Sun headlines- JACK KEROUAC TAPES TIED UP IN LEGAL LIMBO. It appears

that the taped interviews that Gerry Nicosia sold to the University of

Lowell which is a historic collection of 503 entries (interviews, many of

the people are deceased), has been "crippled". supposedly because Nicosia

did not get WRITTEN permission from the people he interviewed. Gerry is

saying he had permission but not in writing. It talks about a serious

researcher who was denied permission and told that to listen to the tapes

she needed written permission from the subjects of the interview or if they

are deceased then from that persons estate. It also talks about the fact

that the tapes are old and that many have not been dubbed or transcribed.

Nicosia is talking about a lawsuit for breach of contract as he thought they

were going to be for public use. This is almost a full page article and

quite extensive. To quote Nicosia at the end of the article. " It was part

of the negotiations that they would make it available to the public. That

was part of the deal. And the other thing is the possibility of fraud. They

assured me this would be made available. I was deceived."

My opinion is that this sucks. This is a historical collection that will

never again be duplicated and to start "pulling" interviews is to destroy a

part of history. For example even if a person being interviewed agreed THEN

to do the interview and wanted it archived for historical reasons or

posterity, now the relatives can stop it from being used. Think of the

problems this could cause. What if a person had four relatives and two want

it used and two don't? Then what? To make a person get permission for every

interview she/he wants to listen to can make it impossible for doing

research. This is not good. This is almost a full page article in the Sun.

If you want to read the whole article. Here is the address of the paper it

is in. Mondays paper 6-10-96. Phil

Lowell Sun

15 Kearney Square

Lowell, MA 01852

508-458-7100

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 18:23:54 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Jonathan Kratter <jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>

Subject: Re: Beat Publications

In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19960608174742.006ba1f0@rahul.net>

We should be grateful that one bookstore actually stocks beat

literature. Regardless of why they do it, they do it, and we should be

thankful that they do it...

jonathan

=========================

Jonathan Kratter, Dreamer

"Fantasies are the sugar with which you take the bitter medicine

of life."

On Sat, 8 Jun 1996, J. Gardner wrote:

> Why is gratitude appropriate for what is a coldcut business decision on

> B&N's part?

> They do what they do solely for business reasons --in this case to be

> considered a "cultured bookstore" -- to assume otherwise would be the

> unrealistic thing.

> I dont have a problem with that, but gratitude? I will never be grateful for

> a culture turned upside down.

> Regards

> Jim Gardner

> >Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:12:00 -0700

> >From: Jonathan Kratter <jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>

> >Subject: <No subject given>

> >

> >Hi!

> >I have noticed some animosity towards Barnes and Nobles on this list. I

> >think that is totally, completely, and utterly uncalled for. Barnes and

> .....

> >As beat fans, we should be especially grateful that B&N has as many beat

> >books as they do.

> Jonathan

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 22:02:04 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Ron Whitehead <RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>

Subject: Jan & Gerry vs Kerouac Estate (SampasFamily)

Thanks to Phil for sharing oh so important Nicosia Lowell Beat archives

update with us.

I had long talk with Gerry after Jan's death. We talked about Jan & various

projects to pay tribute to her but we also discussed the Lowell Archives

issue at length. According to Gerry the Sampases used power to shut down the

Archives all because of lawsuit between Jan & Kerouac Estate. As Phil

mentions historically valuable oral interviews with all the key players must

be dubbed from old to new tapes or they will be lost forever not to mention

that now no one has access to any of the material. There is much more to be

told here. I've seen the lawsuit destroy friendships & make people act like

cowards. Many have been afraid to defend Jan for fear of repercussions from

The Estate. Hatefilled language and name calling ("psychopath" etc) abounds.

Just like in most divorces if you only listen to one side you may come to

believe the other person is a monster when in fact there's usually right &

wrong good & bad intentions & behavior on both sides. Differences must be

reconciled. There is so much Kerouac, & other related, material imprisoned

that must be set free. We (you & I) must speak out (without the fear of being

blackballed) when we can & plead with people like John Sampas to work for

reconciliation. Pressure must be applied somewhere otherwise materials will

be lost or tied up forever. Ron Whitehead 6/10/96 10PM

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 06:08:54 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Stedman, Jim" <JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>

Subject: Re: Jan & Gerry vs Kerouac Estate (SampasFamily)

Comments: To: BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@INTERBIT.CREN.NET

In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of Mon, 10 Jun 1996 22:02:04 EDT

It does seem hard to believe, though, that Nicosia didn't consider

getting _wriitten_ approval from his interviewees. Researchers ought to

know the value of something like that!

Jim Stedman

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 09:06:43 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Ron Whitehead <RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>

Subject: written approval for interviews

Jim Stedman makes an excellent point about "Researchers OUGHT to know the

value of something like that." I haven't studied Gerald Nicosia's life or

personality enough to know how much he considers himself to be an official

Researcher. My guess (guesses are like opinions & assholes. we all have them.

they are what level the playing field. the great equalizers) is that he is

part Researcher/Academic (being one of the leading scholars on Beats & other

fields. he's completing 1,400 page book on Vietnam Vets now) & part Rebel.

It's easy to second guess. Hindsight is 20/20 etc. When you're in the heat of

battle, in the heart of the sacred flame, often your intuition is your guide.

Analysis is secondary to getting the job done, to creating the work of art.

You walk the tightrope without a safety net but you're willing to take the

risks (holy/unholy risks) because you are tapped into, connected with a force

an energy that is more than who what you are.

There's nothing I despise more than all the legal contracting formal

documentation that we've all been led to believe must be done in order for

anything worthwhile to be accomplished. Having published nearly 200 titles by

many known authors & produced over 300 events involving many of the same

people plus many others I have been forced to resort to some kind of legal

contract/documentation maybe five times. I have done it all via word of mouth

& handwritten letter agreement. "Will you do it? What are the terms? Ok.

Let's go." Handshake. Thank yous. High fives. Kisses. Hugs. Much good will.

Yes it's dangerous to say fuck the legal system. Yes today it's a risk.

Somebody may sue my ass any time & if I'm dealing with someone who doesn't

trust people & is all caught up in legalities & contracts (music industry is

worst of all) then I'll let my attorney handle it (& I must say I avoid

agents & managers if at all possible as, in my experience, 75-90% of time

they are interested in one thing = money = & can be the rudest assholes from

hell). I am interested in creating energy that invites the creative

imagination back in to people's lives. The creative imagination saves lives

in many different ways & one of those is that it allows people to remember

that there are alternative paths to follow in this world, not just the one

prescribed by the system.

There is an implicit & explicit understanding when you interview someone (I'm

interviewing William S. Burroughs this week) that yes both parties know that

the interview will be made accessible to public sooner or later in one form

or another. Why else would you be doing the interview in the first place. If

there was another reason it wouldn't be an interview it would merely be a

friendly conversation. To ask for written permission is entering legal zone

that friends, or people on friendly terms, don't consider or just don't want

to fuck with. I'm sure Gerry Nicosia, even if it crossed his mind, felt

certain that he had all the permission he'd ever need by the simple fact that

the interviewees agreed to & did the interview.

Our society has become so legalistic it's nearly unbearable. I constantly

find myself desiring to move to remote island off coast of Ireland or Greece.

Just say Fuck it All. But for me it's getting late. I have too much I feel

urgent need to do. I have a mission. I am engaged & looks like I will be

until I exit this plane.

None of this is meant to attack Jim Stedman. I'm merely offering my point of

view, my opinion, showing my ass to the world. Ron Whitehead 6/11/96 9:05AM

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:42:58 +0100

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: SLAVEN BILIC <NN279@LAMP.AC.UK>

Subject: Spoken word

Curious thing about the interviews, I know that in this country at least

(England & Wales), the copyright rests with the interviewer not the

interviewee.In practice this has meant an abundance of interviews of music and

literary

figures being released on vinyl and CD, often of poor quality and often of

dubious merit. Whether this is better or not is open to debate of course...

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 10:07:56 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: Re: Lowell Sun News-KEROUAC ARCHIVES "CRIPPLED"

In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 10 Jun 1996 20:54:32 -0400 from <Philzi@TIAC.NET>

This should be a lesson to all of us who do interviews in our research.

Always get the subject to sign a standard release form and better yet,

get the permission on the tape itself. It seems the best thing Gerry

can do at the moment is track down as many subjects as he can and get

their permission.

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 10:18:57 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: Re: Jan & Gerry vs Kerouac Estate (SampasFamily)

In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 11 Jun 1996 06:08:54 EDT from <JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>

I sure hope Gerry has copies of all the tapes he gave to the Lowell library. A

t least that way we know one copy can be preserved.

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 16:17:07 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Robert H. Sapp" <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>

Subject: aHHHHHHHHHH....

TRYING TO SEE IF THISLL FARGING WARK DAMMIT

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 17:16:38 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject: Re: Jan & Gerry vs Kerouac Estate (SampasFamily)

At 06:08 AM 6/11/96 EDT, you wrote:

>It does seem hard to believe, though, that Nicosia didn't consider

>getting _wriitten_ approval from his interviewees. Researchers ought to

>know the value of something like that!

>Jim Stedman

> Hi Jim. Good point but I think that the average person would be quite

intimidated by a interviewer asking them to sign a written permission form.

The thinking would be maybe they might be libel for something they said. I

have heard and was there for some of these interviews and Gerry was quite

open about the fact that he was doing research and was writing a book and

the tape recorder was right on the table (or bar). I have even heard some of

the people say "turn that off for a minute" and then tell a story "off the

record". Obviously if you are writing a book and you tell the people being

interviewed about it you would think they would assume the public will

eventually hear what was said. Another point, if I go and take Ann Charters

new book of letters out of the library and publish some letters from it on

my own, the library wouldn't be sued, I would. My God every library in the

world would be at risk if that was the case. What's the difference here? I

don't know it just seems a shame to me that even one of these interviews be

lost.

I don't want to sound like I'm taking sides here in the Sampas/Nicosia

battle because I'm not. I just think it's a shame that this historical

archive is not accessible to the public or even to serious researchers of

the Kerouac legacy. I hope we can somehow get it accessible again. Phil

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 22:46:13 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject: Re: ARCHIVES

At 10:18 AM 6/11/96 EDT, you wrote:

>I sure hope Gerry has copies of all the tapes he gave to the Lowell

library. At least that way we know one copy can be preserved.

He doesn't have them that is the sad part. He sold them to the

University with the intention of haveing them archived and preserved for

scholarly use. Now who knows what will happen. It sounds like they have

already "pulled" some of them and this alone is an outrage. These are State

property owned by all the taxpayers in Mass. We own them. I want to read

more before I go on about this. I'll get back to you all later. Phil

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 22:04:51 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Jonathan Kratter <jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>

Subject: Re: ARCHIVES

In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960612024613.00695f4c@pop.tiac.net>

Hmm...I forgot the name of this list. Was it legal babble and petty

griping about copyright laws-l? Was it lawyer-l? Nope...it was

BEAT-L ...

can't we talk about something Beat? As opposed to boring legal docs?

jonathan

=========================

Jonathan Kratter, Dreamer

"Fantasies are the sugar with which you take the bitter medicine

of life."

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 09:16:19 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: mARK hEMENWAY <mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>

Subject: Re: ARCHIVES

1. There are laws, rules and procedures for doing oral

history/interviews.These are not new or secret. Whether right or wrong,

these were created to protect the interviewee from unwanted invasion of

privacy and rip-off of intellectual property. Responsible researchers

understand, and work within or at least around these rules.

2. Having been more involved in this thing than I ever cared or want to

be, I encourage everyone to seek out "the facts" rather than accept

statements and rumors at face value. I have found the facts often at

variance with the things being said in published articles and being passed

"around the circuit."

3. I'm with Jonathan. To liberally paraphrase Allen Ginsberg at the last

NYU Conference "Let's talk about poetry, not lawsuits."

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 09:46:57 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: Re: ARCHIVES

In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 12 Jun 1996 09:16:19 EDT from

<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>

Mark is right. Having studied Oral History at Columbia in the 1970s, I

can confirm that stress was always placed on obtaining written and

verbal permission (onthe tape) to release the interview. Most libraries

and archives follow strict rules to protect the privacy of the subjects

interviewd. (Of course, they really are protecting themselves from

legal suits.) While I too would rather talk about literature than legal

squabbles, I share Phil's concern that these interviews be made

available to the public. It seems the best thing to do now is to begin

trying to obtain releases from those interviewees who are still with us.

Sincethe Lowell Public Library has assumed ownership of the interviews,

it would seemto me that they are in the best position to pursue these

releases. I'm sure Gerry would be willing to cooperate in any way

possible. However, there's another issue here: why is it that the

library isn't re-copying the tapes to preserve the material? Is there a

feeling that these tapes will never be made public so why keep them?

Does the library feel that the material isn't worthwhile?

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 12:53:52 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Ron Whitehead <RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>

Subject: poetry vs lawsuits

Hello! I agree somewhat with what Mark Hemenway & Allen Ginsberg have to say

about talking about poetry instead of lawsuits. ButThe powers that be would

like nothing better than our silence especially on subjects that might

tarnish their image or even worse remove change from their pockets. I think

this is ideal venue to discuss a lawsuit that directly influences everything

we're about. Yes there is such a thing as shooting a dead horse & rehashing

the same old shit gets old quick but many people (including folks on this

list) don't even know what's been going on with Kerouac material so part of

this Kerouac Beat related lawsuit discussion is educational. I agree: the

important & interesting issue by far is poetry. It is unfortunate & even

disgusting to me when poetry enters the hellish realms of The Law but just

like William Blake marching through the streets of London protesting the

treatment of children (no labor laws) I refuse to stand idly by & watch (like

so many did as Jews were carted to the ovens) when wrongs are being done in

the interest of & to protect the ruling elite (whatever area of life).

And one other point: Just because there are "laws, rules and

procedures...Responsible researchers understand..." doesn't mean that they

are right or valid or always, generally, or even occasionally used by

Responsible researchers. And what who is a responsible researcher? The one

designated by the law? by Academia? the one who supports & protects the

established canon? If ever anyone any group chose to do things differently,

to find a new way, The Beats did. The real question here is not did Nicosia

abide by the letter of the law but did the people he did interviews with

think it was okay. Could he have ripped off 500 interviewees? Why are the

archives locked up? What is the Kerouac estate's motivation?

Voices Without Restraint! Ron Whitehead 6/12/96 12:51PM

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 13:12:09 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Jan & Gerry vs Kerouac Estate (SampasFamily)

Here's an ironic fact:

About 40 years ago, one major obstacle remained to FINALLY publishing a book

called On The Road - the lawyers for the publisher (I can't remember which

publisher it was just now) held up the publication for many months, even

years, because of the obvious real life characters in the book (even though

the names were changed) and the various illegal activities depicted. Jack

Kerouac's letters from the time cry with pain and frustration about the legal

wrangeling that held up the book for so long.

After reading the letters I'm convinced that the long period Kerouac spent

waiting to be published, living off the charity of friends and family,

contributed much to his eventual breakdown. He never found an even keel, it

was boom or bust, never in between. And for the many years between

publishing The Town and the City and On the Road, it was bust for Jack

Kerouac, he was beat. Creative, Yes - but beat indeed.

40 years later, recreational use of relitively harmless substances such as

marijuana remain illegal (drug use was undoubetedly one thing that made the

lawyers so nervious back in 1956). And 40 years later, obtaining

"permissions" still holds up ligitimate, historical research. Many common

sexual practices also remain illegal. Drinking ones self to death is still

common (no legal problem there!)

"The more things change, the more they remain the same." (who said that

anyway? - I don't have permission to use the quote!).

Howard Park

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 15:00:40 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Jim Stedman <jstedman@NMU.EDU>

Subject: Re: poetry vs lawsuits

The rub is certainly expressed best here in Ron's final two questions...

most importantly the one that asks the estate's motivation. Phil is pretty

close to the whole scene and as it unfolds, he will no doubt be keeping

the list up to date.

The issues of what is to be gained and what could very well be lost are

certainly ones relevant to this list, eh?

Perhaps the time is now to establish a chaotic order or strategy. I doubt

whether any of the powers respresented in this legal battle are present in

this forum... so I wonder how it is that the 200-plus-change folks here

might be able to express what opinion they might have regarding the

preservation/access of GN's interview tapes to those people. Are there

names? Are there adresses? is this skirmish getting much Lowell radio time?

Is it present in The Sun's editorial pages, or letters?

Jim

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 15:02:46 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Ron Whitehead <RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>

Subject: poetry & lawsuits

And besides that a few other lawsuits related specifically to poetry & prose

come to mind. Remember James Joyce, D.H. Lawrence, Henry Miller, Allen

Ginsberg to name a few worth discussing in relation to poetry to literature.

If it wasn't for Kenneth Rexroth going into the courts and telling the judge

& jury & the world the historical significance of HOWL(thanks T.K.), not to

mention Lawrence Ferlinghetti publishing the book, where would book & author

be today? Same place? Maybe. Maybe not.

Who's the early feminist who said regardless of the consequences she refused

to become more conservative (play it safe) with age. Regardless of what

heights we climb we need to always remember where we started, how we got to

where we are, & who helped along the way.

And if by chance we started out on top & fell from grace at some point hey

maybe it hurt(s) like hell but consider it an opportunity to see what life is

like for most everybody else on this planet. If you were born with silver

spoon & haven't been introduced to compassion I hope you're fortunate enough

to meet her along your way.

Yes let's discuss poetry. Ron Whitehead

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 17:59:35 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: poetry

In a message dated 96-06-12 15:04:33 EDT,Ron W. wrote:

>Yes let's discuss poetry.

I just read charming old Ginsberg poem - umm, should specify poem old

(1958-newer than I am) , not A.G. - anyway, it's "Ignu".

>ignu knows nothing of the world

>a great ignoramus....

>ignu has knowledge of the angel indeed ignu is angel in comical form

Julie (aspiring ignulie)

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 19:53:07 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject: Re: ARCHIVES

At 10:04 PM 6/11/96 -0700, you wrote:

>Hmm...I forgot the name of this list. Was it legal babble and petty

>griping about copyright laws-l? Was it lawyer-l? Nope...it was

>BEAT-L ...

>can't we talk about something Beat? As opposed to boring legal docs?

>jonathan

>=========================

>Jonathan Kratter, Dreamer

> "Fantasies are the sugar with which you take the bitter medicine

> of life."

>Hmm...I forgot the name of this list. Was it

crying-about-what-people-talk-about-on-the-list-when-they-are-talking-about-

something-important-L Gimme a break. I thought Kerouac was a BEAT and the

beat-l list is for talking about the beats. Instead of crying and doing the

list administrator's job. Who by the way does a great job without your

input. Why don't you write about something beat instead of a silly post like

this. Phil

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 20:16:43 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: The Lowes <hdnfalls@POND.COM>

Subject: Kerouac...Beat?

It don't start w/Jack, folks--

It has always been here to stumble into. <g>

Of course we already knew that--

In the words of Mammy Yokum, "Ah hez spoken!"

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 20:36:54 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: CMJ <Forza@CRIS.COM>

Subject: Zen and the Beats

Well, hi, everyone:

I'm kind of new to the group, and have been reading the lastest posts

about law, poetry, etc., I find it interesting. But, I was wondering if

we couldn't start a new sting regarding the Beats and Zen. Perhaps, this

has been discussed before I was in the group, but I'd like to hear some

input about it. (If it's old hat, someone e-mail and tell me!)

I first "found" Zen while reading Salinger, a zillion years ago. I later

picked up on the Beats and their writings, and found it even more

intriging. Today, I still love it. Certainly, the Beats were significantly

into Zen or buddhism, and greatly influenced by it.

Any comments?

Thanks,

Chris

forza@concentric.net

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 03:03:40 GMT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "s. mark johnson" <smark@NYC.PIPELINE.COM>

Subject: Re: Zen and the Beats

Comments: To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"

<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@vm.its.rpi.edu>

On Jun 12, 1996 20:36:54, 'CMJ <Forza@CRIS.COM>' wrote:

>I first "found" Zen while reading Salinger, a zillion years ago. I later

>picked up on the Beats and their writings, and found it even more

>intriging. Today, I still love it. Certainly, the Beats were significantly

>into Zen or buddhism, and greatly influenced by it.

>Any comments?

>Thanks,

>Chris

>forza@concentric.net

Zen koan: Where do the ducks in Central Park go in the wintertime?

Answer: North Beach, San Francisco

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 23:59:45 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject: Re: poetry vs lawsuits

At 03:00 PM 6/12/96 -0400, you wrote:

>The rub is certainly expressed best here in Ron's final two questions...

>most importantly the one that asks the estate's motivation. Phil is pretty

>close to the whole scene and as it unfolds, he will no doubt be keeping

>the list up to date.

>The issues of what is to be gained and what could very well be lost are

>certainly ones relevant to this list, eh?

>Perhaps the time is now to establish a chaotic order or strategy. I doubt

>whether any of the powers respresented in this legal battle are present in

>this forum... so I wonder how it is that the 200-plus-change folks here

>might be able to express what opinion they might have regarding the

>preservation/access of GN's interview tapes to those people. Are there

>names? Are there adresses? is this skirmish getting much Lowell radio time?

>Is it present in The Sun's editorial pages, or letters?

>Jim

>Jim it's a massive undertaking to track down hundreds of peopleand obtain

open permission slips from them. Can it be done Yes can it be done by us no.

It seems Martha Mayo would have to help. Good luck. Phil

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 09:17:04 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: Re: Zen and the Beats

In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 12 Jun 1996 20:36:54 -0400 from <Forza@CRIS.COM>

Chris, why not give us your thoughts on the nature of Kerouac's use of Zen vs S

alinger's. This might stimulate some good discussion.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 11:29:27 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: Re: poetry vs lawsuits

In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 12 Jun 1996 23:59:45 -0400 from <Philzi@TIAC.NET>

This may just be a quixotic attempt on my part to look for the silver

lining. Phil is right it could be a massive undertaking to locate all

the interviewees and obtain their permission at this point --

particularly so if Gerry doesn't haveaccurate addresses and phone

numbers. On the other hand, it presents an interesting opportunity for

scholars (a number of whom have been critical of Nicosia's research

methods) and graduate students to do further biographical work onKerouac

-- which might verify or add a new slant to the view of K presented in

Memory Babe. While the tapes may be sealed, I see no reason why the

list of interviewees has to be sealed. Is it? If not, interested

researchers could contact the interviewees and talk to them again --

this time making certain to gainthe proper permissions. Granted, it's

going over a lot of old ground again butit might not be a complete waste

of time. And while the researchers are doing their own interviews, they

might also ask for a release for the interviews already on file in the

Lowell library.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 14:47:35 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Stephen Davis <jd4716@NANDO.NET>

Subject: Re: Zen and the Beats

In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.93.960612202329.6219D-100000@viking.cris.com>

> intriging. Today, I still love it. Certainly, the Beats were significantly

> into Zen or buddhism, and greatly influenced by it.

No question on that one. Personally, I've always found Gary Snyder's

work extremly facinating; the way in he combined beat ideas/attitudes

with the zen style of constrait simply amazes me. Also, I love to

compare his translation of the Han Shan poems with earlier translation;

its incredible to me how two diffrent out looks on life can cause cause

completly diffrent translations of the same work.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 14:59:26 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: SPOTS OF TIME <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject: Re: ARCHIVES

I agree, i wish the tapes in the Ginsberg catalog were more available

to the public. They should be re-copied too, as many of them are magnetic

reel-to-reel originals, so old that the track are on each side are mixing (due

to the magic of magnetism) so you can hear forward and backward interviews at

the same time. Great stuff in that collection, esp material with Neal Cassady.

Someday maybe...

Dave B.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 15:24:59 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: SPOTS OF TIME <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject: Re: Zen and the Beats

Though Sam Beckett might not be considered a beat, I have read of a book called

ZEN AND BECKETT by Paul Foster which might have some interesting information in

it. Don't know if it's still in print. has anyone read it? As I said, I have

heard of the book but have not read it. Any reviews would be appreciated.

Dave B.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 14:44:17 +0000

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "John W. Hasbrouck" <jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>

Subject: Re: Zen and the Beats

SPOTS OF TIME wrote:

> Though Sam Beckett might not be considered a beat, I have read of a book

called

> ZEN AND BECKETT by Paul Foster which might have some interesting information

> it. Don't know if it's still in print. has anyone read it? As I said, I have

> heard of the book but have not read it. Any reviews would be appreciated.

> Dave B.

Gee, I wonder if that's the same Paul Foster who was a Prankster back at La

Honda

with Kesey, et al. in the early 60s. He wrote a memior of his Prankster days

called "The Answer is Always YES". Anybody know?

John H.

Chicago

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 16:29:05 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: Re: ARCHIVES

In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 13 Jun 1996 14:59:26 EST from

<breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Yes, let's hope that Stanford has more resources to devote to cataloging and pr

eserving AG's materials than Columbia did.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 18:36:20 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: SPOTS OF TIME <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject: Re: Zen and the Beats

I wondered about that too, if it was the same Foster that was the Prankster.

If anyone knows, they win a big zen prize (nothing).

Dave B.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 16:02:37 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: James Stauffer <jstauffer@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject: Re: Zen and the Beats

SPOTS OF TIME wrote:

> I wondered about that too, if it was the same Foster that was the Prankster.

> If anyone knows, they win a big zen prize (nothing).

> Dave B.

I'd also like to know, but I doubt it. The last I heard of the

Prankster Foster he had given up his enthusiasm for nitrous oxide to go

on the born again Xtianity--but all things are possible.

Jim Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 19:00:03 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: SPOTS OF TIME <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject: Re: ARCHIVES

I know that Allen's office has a catalog of at least the recordings and videos

that are in the (now) Stanford collection. But that's a good question, how

available is it to the public. I know it is available to any scholoar who needs

to do research, probably via Stanford's library via Allen's office. But other

than that, I don't know if any "credentials" are needed or not to have access

to it. Maybe they can put it on the Internet someday.

Dave B.

Sunny Gambier, Ohio

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 19:19:45 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject: Zen and the beats

Zen sucks I'd rather talk about legal babble and petty lawsuits. JUST

KIDDING FOLKS

A really good book on the subject is "Big Sky Mind: Buddism and the Beat

Generation" by Carole Tonkinson I got my copy at Barnes and Nobles.

I believe in the sweetness

of Jesus

And Buddha-

I believe

In St Francis,

Avaloki

Tesvara,

the saints

Of First Century

India A D

And Scholars

Santidevan

And Otherwise

Santayanan

Everywhere

Jack Kerouac-Mexico City Blues

I have read that Jack had said he wasn't that serious about his Buddism and

that it was a just a phase in his life he went through. I can't remember

where I read that it might have been in an interview somewhere. He was born

and died a Catholic but isn't it great that he was so influenced by Buddhism

as evidence in his writings. I wonder how many people first learned of

Buddhism by reading "The Dharma Bums".

"How many a man has dated a new era in his life from reading of a

book"-Henry David Thoreau - from the introduction to "Big Sky Mind" Phil

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 18:32:34 -0600

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: George Morrone <gmorrone@PROLOG.NET>

Subject: Copy of letter to Jens Moellenhoff

>From: "JENS MOELLENHOFF" <JMOELLEN@nw80.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de>

>To: gmorrone@prolog.net (George Morrone)

>Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 11:56:28 +1000

>Subject: Re: German youth movements

>Priority: normal

>> Dear Herr Moellenhoff:

>> Since you suscribe to the beat lit mailing list, perhaps you could provide

>> some pointers on how to find more information on German counterparts of the

>> "Beat" phenomena. In particular, I'm thinking of the "Wandervogel" people,

>> who wore rucksacks, played guitars, wore long hair and sandals. I'm trying

>> to determine to what extend "nachtkultur" (please pardon my spelling if

>> it's not correct!) or nudism was involved. Also, were many students at the

>> Weimar Bauhaus involved in the Wandervogel? I'm writing a novel that takes

>> place partly in the early twenties at the Bauhaus and its pretty difficult

>> to find DETAILS on what daily life was like. Johannes Itten was a

>> fascinating person that many of the beats would have felt right at home

>> with. Thanks in advance.

>> George Morrone

>Dear George Morrone,

>It's so wonderfull being addressed as "Herr Moellenhoff", but you

>have to know that I'm just a 21-year-old pale-faced student trying

>to get the best as possible out of German and American (!) literature.

>Frankly said, I'm not too familiar with the "Wandervogel" or

>"NACKTKULTUR" (sorry for correcting you) movement. I also got only a

>rough impression from the "Weimar Bauhaus".

>I think, the movement that could be compared with the Beats

>concerning their attitude towards society, was the "Edelweiss

>Piraten". There are some connections between the "Edelweiss Piraten"

>and the "Wandervogel" movement, but it lasted longer.

>All over Germany from 1925-1950, there were groups

>of youngsters loosly organized like pirate gangs, who were sort of

>unconformistic. They just hung around in public places, sometimes

>were criminals, wore long hairs, weird, shabby clothes and

>clandestinely listened to "American nigger (pardon me for that word !)

>music" like Swing. They were definitly fascinated by American

>(sub-)culture.

>Of course they were suppressed most by the Nazis, because they

>were "unsocial elements". I know that the leaders of these groups

>often were arrested after police raids, but whether they were sent to

>Concentration Camps I don't know.

>To find DETAILS about life in 1920s Germany, I would recommend the

>following books:

>Alfred Doeblin: "Berlin Alexanderplatz" (filmed by Rainer Werner Fassbinder)

>Erich Kaestner's poems and novel "Fabian - the story of a moralist"

>Hermann Hesse: "Steppenwolf"

>(hasn't there been this weird hardrock group called "Steppenwolf" ?)

>I hope these details are useful to you. Maybe I'll send you more in a

>few weeks time.

>Jens

>Jens Moellenhoff

>Email:jmoellen@nw80.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de

>Internet:http://www.fak14.uni-muenchen.de/~jmoellen/ (German Language)

>University of Munich, Germany

>*** Language is a Virus from Outer Space ***