>*** William S. Burroughs ***
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 18:32:41 -0600
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: George Morrone
<gmorrone@PROLOG.NET>
Subject: Copy of Letter to Jens Moellenhoff (2)
>From:
"JENS MOELLENHOFF" <JMOELLEN@nw80.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de>
>To:
gmorrone@prolog.net (George Morrone)
>Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 09:07:00 +1000
>Subject:
Re: German youth movements
>Priority:
normal
>
>
>Dear
George,
>
>>
>I think, the movement that could be compared with the Beats
>>
>concerning their attitude towards society, was the "Edelweiss
>>
>Piraten". There are some connections between the "Edelweiss
Piraten"
>>
>and the "Wandervogel" movement, but it lasted longer.
>>
>All over Germany from 1925-1950, there were groups
>>
>of youngsters loosly organized like pirate gangs, who were sort of
>>
>unconformistic.
>>
>>
Are there any sources in English concerning these people? I can't think of
>>
a better time to be an unconformist and alienated than 1925-1950.
>>
>
>I
don't know of any sources in English concerning these people. If
>you
take a really detailed book about German youth culture during
>the
first half of the 20th century you'll surely find something about
>the
"Edelweiss Piraten". I'll see if I can find something abot this
>topic
on the WWW.
>
>>
>Of course they were suppressed most by the Nazis, because they
>>
>were "unsocial elements". I know that the leaders of these groups
>>
>often were arrested after police raids, but whether they were sent to
>>
>Concentration Camps I don't know.
>>
>>
My guess is that they were drafted into the Army. The Nazis would forgive
>>
anything except disloyalty.
>
>I
think you are wrong. If you are a rebel against civil society, then
>what
would you do in the army ? Do you know that cruel word
>"Wehrkraftzersetzung".
I don't know the exact English word, but it
>means
that you destroy the nation's power to "defend" itself. In the
>Nazi
context, where it was used the most, this word becomes a certain
>meaning,
that I surely don't have to explain.
>
>Jens
>Jens
Moellenhoff
>
>Email:jmoellen@nw80.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de
>Internet:http://www.fak14.uni-muenchen.de/~jmoellen/
(German Language)
>
>University
of Munich, Germany
>
>***
Language is a Virus from Outer Space ***
>*** William S. Burroughs ***
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 19:27:15 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: poetry vs lawsuits
At
11:29 AM 6/13/96 EDT, you wrote:
>This
may just be a quixotic attempt on my part to look for the silver
>lining. Phil is right it could be a massive
undertaking to locate all
>the
interviewees and obtain their permission at this point --
>particularly
so if Gerry doesn't haveaccurate addresses and phone
>numbers. On the other hand, it presents an
interesting opportunity for
>scholars
(a number of whom have been critical of Nicosia's research
>methods)
and graduate students to do further biographical work onKerouac
>--
which might verify or add a new slant to the view of K presented in
>Memory
Babe. While the tapes may be sealed,
I see no reason why the
>list
of interviewees has to be sealed. Is
it? If not, interested
>researchers
could contact the interviewees and talk to them again --
>this
time making certain to gainthe proper permissions. Granted, it's
>going
over a lot of old ground again but it might not be a complete waste
>of
time. And while the researchers are
doing their own interviews, they
>might
also ask for a release for the interviews already on file in the
>Lowell
library.
>
>What
a absolutely fantastic and positive idea!
The
list of interviewees (names only) is on the internet at the U-Lowell
sight
but I think that the effort to contact these people or their relatives
would
have to be done by someone from or represented by the University. To
keep it
professional and orderly and maybe even to keep it legal. What do
you
think Bill? I wonder if Gerry would be willing to undertake such a
task.HMM
interesting. Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 19:36:49 -0400
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From: The Lowes <hdnfalls@POND.COM>
Subject: Beatitude & Zen
As we
know, any potentially useful, authentic discussion of the beat/zen
connection
will necessarily swerve from authority.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 19:38:05 -0400
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"BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: The Lowes <hdnfalls@POND.COM>
Subject: Hey--
Thinking
NOW of Phil Whalen...
anyone
else?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 19:48:50 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: zen
------------------
| |
| |
| |
| . |
| |
| |
| |
__________________
Zen connect the dots
"...Farmer,
pointing the way
with a radish..."
---Issa
"I
have nothing to say
and I am saying it
that is poetry..."
---John Cage
"A
monk asked Master Haryo,
'What is the way?'
Haryo said
'An open-eyed man
falling
into the well...'"
---Zen koan
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 19:53:33 -0400
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: Buddhism and Jack
I was
reading The Scripture of the Golden Eternity by Kerouac a little
while
ago:
Of
course there are several interpretations of various themes-ideas of
the
work, but here is one of the several things I got from it --
It
could be called The Fuck It, Who Cares Scripture --
It
seems what Jack is saying partly is: all this , reality so forth, is
going
to be just a small blip of memory when we look back from the
ever-encroaching-so-that-it's-almost-or-always-here
future we're all
gonna
die we're swimming in fluid yet timeless moments the universe is
dead
and destroyed already a little down the road of time so why the hell
am I
worried about such mundane things in everyday life...
So just
chill, find PEACE, and have fun.
That's
what I got from it, sort of.
"So
be sure." JK
Eric
Any
comments, opposing thoughts please.
By the
way, The Scripture is on the web somewheres. Checkitout if yahavent.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 19:59:09 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: aSIDE
aNYONE
INTERESTED IN Zen-like/koan-like/fable-like poems, check out
Stephen
Crane, a Beat who lived about 50 years too soon to fall into the
normal
category. Just a suggestion.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 18:12:51 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jim Rivas <rivas@HOOKED.NET>
Subject: Re: Wandervogel
Dear
George and Jean,
As a
supplement to your =93Wandervogel=94 question and response, you migh=
t=20
find
some further study into the pre-World War One =93Wandervogel=94=20
movement
of some interest. You will definitely
see some parallels=20
between
Germany=92s turn of the century youth movement and the American=20
Beats:
deep dissatisfaction with the hypocritical moral constraints of=20
industrial
society and a turn towards naturalism (including a drop-out=20
mentality),
a fascination with mysticism or an alternative religious=20
model (
in this case, ancient Germanic mythology as opposed to Zen),=20
philosophical
curiosity, and a nomadic lifestyle (if memory serves, the=20
word
=93Wandervogel=94 means wandering bird in german). Interestingly=20
enough,
come 1914 and the start of WW1, a great percentage of the=20
=93Wandervogel=94
quickly enlisted in the German army and were considered=
=20
some of
the most fervent nationalist. I=92ve
heard at least one U.C.=20
Berkeley
historian refer to the pre-war =93Wandervogel=94 as Germany=92s =
turn=20
of the
century hippie movement.
Jim R.
George
Morrone wrote:
>=20
>
>From: "JENS MOELLENHOFF"
<JMOELLEN@nw80.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de>
>
>To: gmorrone@prolog.net (George Morrone)
>
>Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996
11:56:28 +1000
>
>Subject: Re: German youth movements
>
>Priority: normal
>
>
>
>
> >>
Dear Herr Moellenhoff:
>
>>
>
>> Since you suscribe to the beat lit mailing list, perhaps you could p=
rovide
>
>> some pointers on how to find more information on German counterparts=
of the
>
>> "Beat" phenomena. In particular, I'm thinking of the
"Wandervogel" p=
eople,
>
>> who wore rucksacks, played guitars, wore long hair and sandals. I'm =
trying
>
>> to determine to what extend "nachtkultur" (please pardon my
spelling=
if
>
>> it's not correct!) or nudism was involved. Also, were many students =
at the
>
>> Weimar Bauhaus involved in the Wandervogel? I'm writing a novel that=
takes
>
>> place partly in the early twenties at the Bauhaus and its pretty dif=
ficult
>
>> to find DETAILS on what daily life was like. Johannes Itten was a
>
>> fascinating person that many of the beats would have felt right at h=
ome
>
>> with. Thanks in advance.
>
>>
>
>> George Morrone
>
>>
>
>
>
>Dear George Morrone,
>
>
>
>It's so wonderfull being addressed as "Herr Moellenhoff", but you
>
>have to know that I'm just a 21-year-old pale-faced student trying
>
>to get the best as possible out of German and American (!) literature.
>
>
>
>Frankly said, I'm not too familiar with the "Wandervogel" or
>
>"NACKTKULTUR" (sorry for correcting you) movement. I also got
only a
>
>rough impression from the "Weimar Bauhaus".
>
>
>
>I think, the movement that could be compared with the Beats
>
>concerning their attitude towards society, was the "Edelweiss
>
>Piraten". There are some connections between the "Edelweiss
Piraten"
>
>and the "Wandervogel" movement, but it lasted longer.
>
>All over Germany from 1925-1950, there were groups
>
>of youngsters loosly organized like pirate gangs, who were sort of
>
>unconformistic. They just hung around in public places, sometimes
>
>were criminals, wore long hairs, weird, shabby clothes and
>
>clandestinely listened to "American nigger (pardon me for that word !)
>
>music" like Swing. They were definitly fascinated by American
>
>(sub-)culture.
>
>
>
>Of course they were suppressed most by the Nazis, because they
>
>were "unsocial elements". I know that the leaders of these groups
>
>often were arrested after police raids, but whether they were sent to
>
>Concentration Camps I don't know.
>
>
>
>To find DETAILS about life in 1920s Germany, I would recommend the
>
>following books:
>
>
>
>Alfred Doeblin: "Berlin Alexanderplatz" (filmed by Rainer Werner
Fassb=
inder)
>
>Erich Kaestner's poems and novel
"Fabian - the story of a moralist"
>
>Hermann Hesse: "Steppenwolf"
>
>(hasn't there been this weird hardrock group called "Steppenwolf"
?)
>
>
>
>I hope these details are useful to you. Maybe I'll send you more in a
>
>few weeks time.
>
>Jens
>
>Jens Moellenhoff
>
>
>
>Email:jmoellen@nw80.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de
>
>Internet:http://www.fak14.uni-muenchen.de/~jmoellen/ (German Language)
>
>
>
>University of Munich, Germany
>
>
>
>*** Language is a Virus from Outer Space ***
>
>*** William S.
Burroughs ***
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 18:26:00 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jim Rivas <rivas@HOOKED.NET>
Subject: Allen G
Does
anybody know if A.G. still teaching at the City Unviersity of New
York.
If so, what courses (Graduate? Undergrad?)
Jim R.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:27:57 -0400
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From: nappodd2 <nappodd2@ALPHA.SHIANET.ORG>
Subject: Re: Stephen Crane
>aNYONE
INTERESTED IN Zen-like/koan-like/fable-like poems, check out
>Stephen
Crane, a Beat who lived about 50 years too soon to fall into the
>normal
category. Just a suggestion.
Yes, I agree! His collection "The
Black Riders" has many short poems
that
suggest GREAT things with economy and understatement. Crane refused to
call
his poems "poems", too (a bit like Kerouac and his "hymns"
perhaps?).
Crane
called them "lines". His
short life reads very Beat, too: traveled
constantly,
disputes with publishers, hungered for experience.
Based on what I've read, I would have
to agree that Kerouac was
mostly
a dabbler in Zen, particularly during his association with Snyder.
Dan
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 02:48:01 GMT
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
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From: "s. mark johnson"
<smark@NYC.PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Hey--
Comments:
To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@vm.its.rpi.edu>
On Jun
13, 1996 19:38:05, 'The Lowes <hdnfalls@POND.COM>' wrote:
>Thinking
NOW of Phil Whalen...
>anyone
else?
"On
Bear's Head" got me through probably the worst year of my life. Mark J
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 01:21:03 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Tim Donahue <Tim1461@AOL.COM>
Subject: Beat Lit. Symposium
I seem
to have joined this listserve in the middle of a lawsuit discussion.
Nevertheless, I offer this info from a flyer
I received:
Call
for Papers:
Beat
Lit. Symposium 1996
University
of Massachusetts - Lowell
Friday,
October 4, 1996
Submissions
welcome on:
* Kerouac's Lowell novells
* Portrayals of race, gender, sexuality in
Kerouac's
fiction
* Beat poets, especiaslly Ginsberg, Corso,
Snyder
* Kerouac's "spontaneous prose"
... open to other topics
as well
Send
your one-page proposal by July 31 to:
Prof.
Hilary Holladay
English
Department
U.
Mass. Lowell
Lowell,
MA 01845
holladayh@woods.uml.edu
The
symposium will be held in conjunction with
"Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac!" October 3 -
6,
a
city-wide festival commemorating the writings of Lowell native Jack Kerouac
I hope
it's of interest.
Tim Donahue
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 07:52:06 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
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From: SPOTS OF TIME
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hey--
There
is a new book out by Phil Whalen, have not seen it out yet (at least in
my area
which is no surprise).
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 16:06:01 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
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From: Moritz Rossbach
<moro0000@STUD.UNI-SB.DE>
Subject: Re: Zen and the beats
Comments:
cc: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.uucp>
In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960613231945.00682740@pop.tiac.net>
On Thu,
13 Jun 1996, Phil Chaput wrote:
> I
believe in the sweetness
> of Jesus
>
And Buddha-
> I believe
> In
St Francis,
> Avaloki
>
Tesvara,
> the saints
> Of
First Century
> India A D
> And
Scholars
> Santidevan
>
And Otherwise
> Santayanan
> Everywhere
> Jack Kerouac-Mexico City
Blues
>
> I
have read that Jack had said he wasn't that serious about his Buddism and
>
that it was a just a phase in his life he went through. I can't remember
>
where I read that it might have been in an interview somewhere. He was born
>
and died a Catholic but isn't it great that he was so influenced by Buddhism
> as
evidence in his writings. I wonder how many people first learned of
>
Buddhism by reading "The Dharma Bums".
>
>
"How many a man has dated a new era in his life from reading of a
>
book"-Henry David Thoreau - from the introduction to "Big Sky
Mind" Phil
>
I
definetly did...
But
there are still a lot of questions about this _mysterious unknown
east
culture thing_ called buddhism holding my mind.
Anyone
can recommand a good book on the subject itself ?
greetings
from germany
moritz
moro0000@stud.uni-sb.de
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 11:15:27 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
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From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Allen G
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 13 Jun 1996 18:26:00 -0700
from <rivas@HOOKED.NET>
Allen
Ginsberg teaches at Brooklyn College.
This fall he will be teaching an u
ndergraduate
seminar on William Blake as well as his tutorials and coursework i
n our
MFA creative writing program.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 11:14:07 -0700
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From: Jonathan Kratter
<jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>
Subject: Re: Wandervogel and Edelweiss Piraten
In-Reply-To:
<v01530501ade6613d4293@[204.186.21.23]>
Hi!
I don't
know how much it will be really related to your novel or the
characters
in it, since I've never heard of the Wandervogel or Edelweiss
Piraten,
but the latter group sounds somewhat like a group of students
who're
the center of the movie "Swing Kids". It's pretty readily
availiable
in the US, but I don't know about overseas.
Jonathan
=========================
Jonathan
Kratter, Dreamer
"Fantasies are the sugar with
which you take the bitter medicine
of life."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 11:20:03 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jonathan Kratter
<jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>
Subject: Re: aSIDE
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.BSD/.3.91.960613195557.17591B-100000@crystal.palace.net>
Yes! I've read a couple of poems by him and
they're fantastic! Here are
two of
my favorites:
Many
Workmen
Many
Workmen
Built a
huge ball of masonry
Upon a
mountaintop.
Then
they went to the vaelly below,
And
turned to behold their work.
"It
is grand," they said;
They
loved the thing.
Of a
sudden, it moved:
It came
upon them swiftly;
It
crushed them all to blood.
But
some had opportunity to squeal.
the
next:
A Man
Said to the Universe
A man
said to the universe:
"Sir,
I exsit!"
"However,"
replied the universe,
"The
fact has not created in me
A sense
of obligation."
jonathan
=========================
Jonathan
Kratter, Dreamer
"Fantasies are the sugar with
which you take the bitter medicine
of life."
On Thu,
13 Jun 1996, Robert H. Sapp wrote:
>
aNYONE INTERESTED IN Zen-like/koan-like/fable-like poems, check out
>
Stephen Crane, a Beat who lived about 50 years too soon to fall into the
>
normal category. Just a suggestion.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 16:20:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
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List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Trevor D. Smith"
<V116NH27@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Organization:
University at Buffalo
Subject: Re: Wandervo(e)gel
Being
also interested in German lit. and its relation
to the
Beats, I am intrigued with this latest "spin" on
things
(i.e. the "Wandervoegel").
To this
point and to the time-frame indicated, I might
suggest
having a look at Hermann Hesse's short novel,
_Knulp_
(1915). This is the story of a
vagabond/artist
and his
youth, travels, and ultimately, his death.
May
fit
well into this topic (and it's an compelling work).
Trevor
Smith
SUNY at Buffalo
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 16:23:34 -0400
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From: nappodd2
<nappodd2@ALPHA.SHIANET.ORG>
Subject: Zen books
>But
there are still a lot of questions about this _mysterious unknown
>east
culture thing_ called buddhism holding my mind.
>Anyone
can recommand a good book on the subject itself ?
I'm no expert on the subject, but I
can offer some suggestions.
First,
a lot of people refer to what the Beats were involved with as
"Buddhism"--which
is pretty general. What interested
writers like Gary
Snyder
was "Ch'an Buddhism", which became "Zen Buddhism" when it
made it to
feudal
Japan in the 12th century. Ch'an--which
means "mediation"--developed
in
southern China during the Tang dynasty.
This is the school of sudden
enlightenment,
which featured much discipline, koans, and frequent physical
beating. But it was always a good natured and
rewarding beating.
The best book I have read about the
subject is "Zen Buddhism" (N.Y.:
Anchor)
by D.T. Suzuki. He's more than a
scholar--he's lived it. A very
entertaining
(and short) book about a skeptical German academic who travels
to
Japan and learns archery from Zen masters is "Zen and the Art of
Archery"
(N.Y.:
Pantheon) by Eugen Herrigel. The more I
think about it, that book is
a must
read. The most famous popular book
about Zen is by Christmas
Humphreys
(sounds like one of Kerouac's names), but the title escapes me.
Adios
Dan
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 03:59:53 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Tom Moody
<tmoody@WILEY.CSUSB.EDU>
Subject: Re: Zen books
>>But
there are still a lot of questions about this _mysterious unknown
>>east
culture thing_ called buddhism holding my mind.
>>Anyone
can recommand a good book on the subject itself ?
>
>If
it makes any sense to talk about at "authority" on Zen, it would be
D>T>
Suzuki.
The
Dutch mystery writer Janwillem vandewetering also wrote two wonderful
accounts
of his experiences first in a Japanese Zen monastery and then in an
American
one. "A Glimpse of Nothingness" and "The Empty Mirror"
they're
called.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 19:32:57 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: Song for Nobody: Thomas Merton, Zen,
& The Beats
Remember
Thomas Merton when checking into Zen & The Beats. First thing
Lawrence
Ferlinghetti asked when I brought him to Louisville for few days was
will
you take me to visit Merton's grave at Abbey of Gethsemani. Merton spent
last
night of his life in USA at Ferlinghetti's in California. Merton
published
The Beats (see Monk's Pond) plus immersed himself in Zen. Some
conspiracy
theorists believe his mysterious death (Bangkok, Thailand 1968. yr
before
Jack's) had something to do with his religious politics of stepping
outside
the epistemological boundaries of Catholicism & his Trappist vows. He
became
friends with His Holiness The Dalai Lama (who's doing one week retreat
this
summer at Merton's Hermitage), wrote extensively on Buddhism (incl Zen
brand),
& is as responsible as anyone for building bridge between orient &
occident,
Buddhism & Christianity. Besides The Seven Storey Mountain
(Merton's
autobiography) other books of interest are: Zen and the Birds of
Appetite,
Mystics and Zen Masters, The Asian Journal, Thomas Merton on Peace,
The Way
of Chuang Tzu, plus Ron Seitz' Song For Nobody: A Memory Vision of
Thomas
Merton (most inside personal view of Merton to date), plus new
7-volume
journals of Thomas Merton (1st 3 are out. 1 issued every 6 months by
Harper
Collins), plus White Fields Press Published in Heaven Poster Series'
Thomas
Merton's The Harmonies of Excess & Ron Seitz' Thomas Merton plus
upcoming
Ron Seitz' Upon First Meeting Thomas Merton. Thanks! Ron Whitehead
6/14/96
7:27PM P.S. Plus for new Beat
publication watch for August
issue
of TRIBE magazine (release July 31st) I'm Guest Editor of. Cover to
cover
Beat (& otherr) material. I just completed long interview with William
S.
Burroughs which will be featured along with new photos of Burroughs (front
cover
& inside) by John Blumb (his photographer)
(Neil
Hennessey recently did interview with Burroughs I'm hoping to publish
somewhere
in White Fields Press Series in near future). Issue will also
include
new work (interviews, poems, photos) on/by Diane di Prima, Lawrence
Ferlinghetti,
Robert Creeley, David Amram, Ed Sanders, & others. Going back
to New
Orleans on 18th for few days to wrap issue up & delive to printer.
I'll
give more updated information at end of month.
Thanks! Ron
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 20:30:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Zen books
At
03:59 AM 6/15/96 -0700, you wrote:
>>>But
there are still a lot of questions about this _mysterious unknown
>>>east
culture thing_ called buddhism holding my mind.
>>>Anyone
can recommand a good book on the subject itself ?
>>
>>If
it makes any sense to talk about at "authority" on Zen, it would be
D>T>
>Suzuki.
>The
Dutch mystery writer Janwillem vandewetering also wrote two wonderful
>accounts
of his experiences first in a Japanese Zen monastery and then in an
>American
one. "A Glimpse of Nothingness" and "The Empty Mirror"
they're
>called.
>
From Phil C.
>D.T.
Zuzuki writes---
Among
the most remarkable features characterizing Zen we find these:
spirituality,
directness of expression, disregard of form or
conventionalism,
and frequently an almost wanton delight in going astray
from
respectability.- D.T. Suzuki
Boy
does that sound like Jack K. or what? Some cool Zen sayings>>>
When a
monk asked, " what is the Buddha?" Ummon (863-949) replied,"A
shit
wiping
stick."
I don't
know. I don't care. And it doesn't make any difference.-Jack Kerouac
Sacred
cows make great hamburgers- Robert Reisner
The
less effort, the faster and more powerful you will be.- Bruce Lee
Zen is
like looking for the specticles that are sitting on your nose- Zen saying
How
describe the delicate thing that happens when a brilliant insect alights
on a
flower? Words, with their weight, fall upon the picture like birds of
prey.-
Jules Renard but Jack Kerouac turned
the hawk into a dove- Phil
Let's
hear your best Zen
sayings>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 22:01:36 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: Buddhism and Jack (fwd)
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date:
Thu, 13 Jun 1996 19:53:33 -0400 (EDT)
From:
Robert H. Sapp <rhs4@crystal.palace.net>
To:
beat-l@cunyvm.cuny.edu
Subject:
Buddhism and Jack
I was
reading The Scripture of the Golden Eternity by Kerouac a little
while
ago:
Of
course there are several interpretations of various themes-ideas of
the
work, but here is one of the several things I got from it --
It
could be called The Fuck It, Who Cares Scripture --
It
seems what Jack is saying partly is: all this , reality so forth, is
going
to be just a small blip of memory when we look back from the
ever-encroaching-so-that-it's-almost-or-always-here
future we're all
gonna
die we're swimming in fluid yet timeless moments the universe is
dead
and destroyed already a little down the road of time so why the hell
am I
worried about such mundane things in everyday life...
So just
chill, find PEACE, and have fun.
That's
what I got from it, sort of.
"So
be sure." JK
Eric
Any
comments, opposing thoughts please.
By the
way, The Scripture is on the web somewheres. Checkitout if yahavent.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 09:35:12 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Re: Buddhism and Jack (fwd)
The
<<Buddhist Bible>> is a collection of Buddhist Scriptures which
served
as a
primary resource for the beats. It contains the Diamond Sutra which
Jack
read and memorized extensively. This wonderful anthology is in print
again
and available on the shelf at mainstream bookstores. Scripture of
the
Golden Eternity can sound like a bunch of gobbelety gook until one
begins
to understand Buddhist teachings. It then becomes a tribute to
Jack's
genius. It's not hard to see why some consider Jack a major figure
in
American Buddhism.
You can
also check out "Tricycle" magazine which recently serialized
Jack's
Version of Siddharta. If Tricycle is the East Coast versions,
"Shambhala
Sun" is the West Coast magazine of American Buddhism and has
more
pictures of Gary Snyder. Both are excellent and worth checking out.
Gee.
Hope I'm not sounding too pompous. Don't mean to be
Mark
Hemenway
Dharma
beat magazine
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 16:22:09 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Douglas Dusseau
<ddusseau@IN.NET>
Subject: Literary Kicks
I
noticed that Wired listed Levi's Literary Kicks in the net surf of the
July
issue describing it as "a beautifully assembled shrine dedicated to all
people,
places and things beat." Good to
see Levi receive this well
deserved
plug!!
Douglas
M Dusseau
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 20:02:51 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Carl A Biancucci
<carl@WORLD.STD.COM>
Subject: Janwillem van de Wetering
Comments:
To: BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@uunet.uu.net
In-Reply-To:
<2.2.32.19960615003053.006742a4@pop.tiac.net> from "Phil
Chaput"
at Jun 14, 96 08:30:53 pm
J.d.v.W.'s
fiction also has a lot of Buddhist philosophy,which may seem
strange
in light of the fact that he writes a series based upon the
exploits
of 2 cops and their boss who work for the Amsterdam police.
(J.d.v.W.
was also a cop,in addition to having lived in/written of
living
in a Buddhist monastery)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 20:31:08 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: George Morrone
<gmorrone@PROLOG.NET>
Subject: FBI Files on Kerouac, Ginsberg & Co.
?
It
strikes me as very likely that J. Edgar Hoover (for whom Kerouac &
Ginsberg
were probably his worst nightmares!) had the FBI investigate them.
Has
anyone requested the files (if they exist) from the FBI (under the
freedom
of information act) or the National Archives? It would make pretty
interesting
reading!
George
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 20:31:12 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: George Morrone
<gmorrone@PROLOG.NET>
Subject: An excellent book on Zen
Check
out "Questions to a Zen Master" by Taisen Deshimaru:
Firewood
becomes ashes; the ashes cannot become firewood again and the
firewood
cannot see it's own ashes.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 21:06:13 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: George Morrone
<gmorrone@PROLOG.NET>
Subject: Re: Zen and the beats
Phil
wrote:
>Zen
sucks I'd rather talk about legal babble and petty lawsuits. JUST
>KIDDING
FOLKS
But
seriously, ... I was wondering: this list is being archived somewhere,
right?
Maybe someday some enterprising editor will want to publish some of
this
stuff... Will they have to get permission from the people who submit
letters?
Or are the e-mail contributions in the public domain? Anyway, I
hereby
place my own modest contributions in the public domain.
>I
have read that Jack had said he wasn't that serious about his Buddism and
>that
it was a just a phase in his life he went through. I can't remember
>where
I read that it might have been in an interview somewhere.
To me,
Zen, Taoism and Buddhism are disciplines, and as we know, Jack, as
good a
writer as he was, never took well to discipline. I can't imagine him
staying
in one place long enough to acquire any systematic or focused
doctrine
or practice. Discipline and Beat sensibility CAN go together,
though.
Consider Gary Snyder. Speaking of whom, what's the best Snyder bio
other
than "Dimensions of a Life?" (Which I've already read.)
>He
was born
>and
died a Catholic but isn't it great that he was so influenced by Buddhism
>as
evidence in his writings. I wonder how many people first learned of
>Buddhism
by reading "The Dharma Bums".
I first
read D. T. Suzuki's "Introduction to Zen Buddhism," then stuff by
Alan
Watts & Aldous Huxley (AW, AH, and Timothy Leary were my "holy
trinity"
in the late sixties!) Suzuki's book was like a flash of lightning
on a
late, humid summer afternoon. Then came Hermann Hesse. I first read
"The
Dharma Bums" at college in the early seventies. (The character I liked
best
was Japhy Ryder.)
George
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 21:06:19 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: George Morrone
<gmorrone@PROLOG.NET>
Subject: Re: Buddhism and Jack
>I
was reading The Scripture of the Golden Eternity by Kerouac a little
>while
ago:
>Of
course there are several interpretations of various themes-ideas of
>the
work, but here is one of the several things I got from it --
>It
could be called The Fuck It, Who Cares Scripture --
We
westerners often confuse Nirvana, Satori, etc. with passivity and
negativity.
IF this was Jack's interpretation of Eastern religion (and I
think
it was, but haven't read enough to be sure) he was wrong about that
aspect
of it. Was Jack something of a Nihilist? and did he see in Buddhism
justification
for his renunciation? I guess fundamentally, the question I
would
like to ask is: how did Jack construct his identity? How did he
define
himself?
>It
seems what Jack is saying partly is: all this , reality so forth, is
>going
to be just a small blip of memory when we look back from the
>ever-encroaching-so-that-it's-almost-or-always-here
future we're all
>gonna
die we're swimming in fluid yet timeless moments the universe is
>dead
and destroyed already a little down the road of time so why the hell
>am
I worried about such mundane things in everyday life...
>So
just chill, find PEACE, and have fun.
Even if
all that is true, it's no excuse not to care for each other, live a
stable
life, marry and raise children (if that's what you want,) develop
oneself
as a writer; work for human rights. Much of what Jack criticized
WAS
wrong. Still, we can chill, find peace, have fun, and also study and
work.
George
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 23:02:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: CMJ <Forza@CRIS.COM>
Subject: Fave Zen Quote
Hi,
Beats!
"Go
to bed now, quickly. Quickly and slowly."
J.D. Salinger
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 23:27:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: oriental vs occidental
Hello!
What does it mean to say Taoism Buddhism Zen are disciplines?
Discipline
as in way of life? Tao means The Way. Buddha means fully
enlightened
one from root buddh to wake up. Zen (ch'an in Chinese, dhyana in
Sanskrit)
means meditation (school of Mahayana Buddhism emphasizes meditation
as its
primary practice). Questions. Words. No answers. How translate
definitions
into understanding? And do different cultures understand
experience
differently? Is eastern oriental mind being different than western
occidental
mind being? Kerouac, in Scattered Poems (City Lights, Pocket Poet
Series
#28), gives some personal insight when he says "The 'Haiku' was
invented
and developed over hundreds of years in Japan to be a complete poem
in
seventeen syllables and to pack in a whole vision of life in three short
lines.
A 'Western Haiku' need not concern itself with the seventeen syllables
since
Western languages cannot adapt themselves to the fluid syllabillic
Japanese.
I propose that the 'Western Haiku' simply say a lot in three short
lines
in any Western language. Above all, a Haiku must be very simple and
free of
all poetic trickery and make a little picture and yet be as airy and
graceful
as a Vivaldi Pastorella."
Do you
have an affinity to Taoism Buddhism Zen? Do you select what works best
for you
and apply it to your own life your own experience your own
understanding?
Do you consider yourself to be disciplined but disciplined in
your
own way rather than a prescribed traditional way? Didn't Kerouac (&
other
poet mystics) take from the world what worked best for him & allow that
new
knowledge to wed his own inner experience & from that consummated inner
relationship
gave birth to new forms of expression of being of understanding.
Kerouac
revealed, via personal choice & necessity, that the fresh wind of
creative
imagination & expression (holy spirit?) breathed into the best of
disciplines
can break arbitrary bonds while allowing a freer new expression
of
ancient truth plus lead to a less stressed life (The Dalai Lama told me
"their's
nothing wrong with knowing happiness"). And just because his life
ended
the way it did doesn't mean he didn't know the AH & AHA time & time
again
before the final long dark slide.
Zen is
as much no discipline as it is discipline. Zen is complete immersion
into
life, complete engagement in being, in being self or in being other.
Zen is
letting go completely, living fully in spontaneous now, living without
safety
net, taking holy unholy risks. Zen discipline also enables focus,
focus
to point of being able to exit self & enter other whatever whoever
other
might be so one can experience Zen from many (infinite?) perspectives.
Other
words that relate to (& can lead to) this experience are sympathy,
empathy
(ability to be an empath, to enter another at least thru imagination
&
experience world thru their eyes), compassion, negative capability. In Zen
All-Connectedness
is recognized.
Another
response to what Zen is =
In Kentucky
I pass fast
on one
lane bridges
Ron
Whitehead
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 09:34:04 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CMJ <Forza@CRIS.COM>
Subject: Seconding George's Motion
Hi,
fellow Beats:
I agree
with George, it would be very interesting indeed to see what ole
J.Edgar
might have had on Jack, Ginsberg and others!
If memory serves me,
and as
the years pass, it doesn't always to that; I believe Ginsberg did
protest
the war. And in general, the whole Beat
lifestyle would have
certainly
been a subject of immense curiosity for Hoover. If anyone can
get
info, I would really appreciate reading about it.
Also,
as the mother of three Generation X'ers, I'd like to pose a question
to our
younger Beats out there. I find this really fascinating, and I hope
the
Boomer Beats will indulge me.<g>
My teenagers have told me that hands
down,
Kurt Cobain, was into Zen very deeply. They, in fact, had me listen
to some
of his lyrics, and indeed, there are some references, some very
blatant
ones such as, "come as you are, as you were," etc. Needless, to
say,
this is something that had passed me by. I'd be interested in any
comments
from any of you "younger cats" out there:)) You can write me
personally,
if you would prefer to do so, but please, I'm posing this
legitimately
for my kids, no flames. Thanks.
Thanks,
Chris
forza@concentric.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 10:13:31 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: come as you are, as you were
Hello!
You can know Zen be Zen without ever knowing the word Zen or its
definition
or practicing the discipline in Zen monastery. Many people are Zen
without
knowing it officially.
Icognito libido
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 12:07:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ed Hertzog <exh112@PSU.EDU>
Subject: Cobain and Zen
Comments:
To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
>I
agree with George, it would be very interesting indeed to see what ole
>J.Edgar
might have had on Jack, Ginsberg and others
You
might want to check out <http://parascope.infozone.com/request.html>.
You can
use this to generate a info request for government files on
individuals
as is allowed by the Freedom of Information Act.
>Also,
as the mother of three Generation X'ers, I'd like to pose a question
>to
our younger Beats out there. I find this really fascinating, and I hope
>the
Boomer Beats will indulge me.<g>
My teenagers have told me that hands
>down,
Kurt Cobain, was into Zen very deeply.
A lot
of people say they are really into Zen or Buddhism but have no clue. I
really
can't answer for you whether or not Cobain's Zen was legit or not.
What I
can tell you that his wife had some of his ashes sent to a Buddhist
temple
in Tibet -- or at least that's the rumor I've heard.
E
Hertzog
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 14:12:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Kiriazis
<kir@HAMPTONS.COM>
Subject: Jackson Pollock and the Beat Generation
If
anyone is planning to be in the East Hampton, NY area in mid July, there
is an
interesting lecture scheduled.
The
Pollock-Krasner House and Study Center (Jackson Pollock's and Lee
Krasner's
house and studio) has seven lectures planned for their summer
series,
dealing with various aspects of contempory art. The first,
scheduled
for 14 July, is "Jackson Pollock and the Beat Generation", given
by
Ellen G. Landau from Case Western Reserve University. The program begins
at 5 pm
and costs $12. Seating is very
limited. If you want more
information,
the phone number of the Center is 516-324-4929.
Bill
Kiriazis
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 14:14:59 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: George Morrone
<gmorrone@PROLOG.NET>
Subject: Re: oriental vs occidental
>Hello!
What does it mean to say Taoism Buddhism Zen are disciplines?
>Discipline
as in way of life?
Yes.
Consider the following two quotes from John Blofeld's excellent book:
"'Immortality'
is the term by which Taoists at at every level of
understanding
designate their goal..." p. 15
"Attainment
of immortality means successful cultivation of the Way.
Cultivation
of the way is a lifelong process of refinement of the adept's
consciousness.
Bringing to bear his fully integrated powers of body and
mind,
he gradually discovers his real self - which in a sense is no-self."
p. 40
John Blofeld
Taoism:
The Road to Immortality
>Questions.
Words. No answers. How translate
>definitions
into understanding? And do different cultures understand
>experience
differently? Is eastern oriental mind being different than western
>occidental
mind being?
"The
secret of Zen is the practice of zazen. Zazen is difficult, I know.
But,
practiced daily, it is a very effective way of expanding consciousness
and
developing intuition. Zazen releases and mobilizes energy; it is also
the
posture of awakening." p xiii
Taisen
Deshimaru, Questions to a Zen Master
>Do
you have an affinity to Taoism Buddhism Zen?
It's
hard to explain, but when I read what people like D. T. Suzuki or John
Blofeld
write I respond; it strikes a chord.
>Do
you select what works best
>for
you and apply it to your own life your own experience your own
>understanding?
I
practice Zazen; not as often as I should; but when I do I know what
Taisen
Deshimaru is talking about.
>Do
you consider yourself to be disciplined but disciplined in
>your
own way rather than a prescribed traditional way?
Just
living a settled life with job, wife, kids, bills to pay takes a
considerable
amount of discipline! I've lived the way Kerouac & Co. did
back in
the early seventies when I got out of the Navy but recognized how
destructive
it was.
>Didn't
Kerouac (&
>other
poet mystics) take from the world what worked best for him & allow that
>new
knowledge to wed his own inner experience & from that consummated inner
>relationship
gave birth to new forms of expression of being of understanding.
What
Kerouac did in his life didn't work for him! He was miserable and had
constantly
to kill the pain with alcohol! He was not happy, gave up on
life,
and thought he found justification for his renunciation in Buddhism.
I could
make my point by contrasting Kerouac and Gary Snyder. Don't think
I'm
condemning Jack, though. He dealt with his problems as best he could,
and
made some bad choices, but he was a great writer and I respect that.
>Kerouac
revealed, via personal choice & necessity, that the fresh wind of
>creative
imagination & expression (holy spirit?) breathed into the best of
>disciplines
can break arbitrary bonds while allowing a freer new expression
>of
ancient truth plus lead to a less stressed life (The Dalai Lama told me
>"their's
nothing wrong with knowing happiness").
True,
but Kerouac's life was highly stressful.
>And
just because his life
>ended
the way it did doesn't mean he didn't know the AH & AHA time & time
>again
before the final long dark slide.
His
life ending the way it did was the logical outcome of the choices he
made.
He was right about a great many things and I wish he had more respect
for
himself and his ability. I also wish he were capable of earning a
living
apart from his writing: a trade such as carpentry or cooking cab
driving
would have benefited his writing.
>Zen
is as much no discipline as it is discipline. Zen is complete immersion
>into
life, complete engagement in being, in being self or in being other.
>Zen
is letting go completely, living fully in spontaneous now, living without
>safety
net, taking holy unholy risks. Zen discipline also enables focus,
>focus
to point of being able to exit self & enter other whatever whoever
>other
might be so one can experience Zen from many (infinite?) perspectives.
Most of
the time, Kerouac was not focused, Snyder was!
>Other
words that relate to (& can lead to) this experience are sympathy,
>empathy
(ability to be an empath, to enter another at least thru imagination
>&
experience world thru their eyes), compassion, negative capability. In Zen
>All-Connectedness
is recognized.
>Another
response to what Zen is =
>
All
that may be true; it's still no excuse for laziness, passivity,
self-destructiveness,
nihilism, alcoholism, drug abuse.
>
"...
it may be thought that the critics are justified in charging Zen with
advocating
a philosophy of pure negation, but nothing is so far from
Zen...Mere
negation is not the spirit of Zen..." p. 51
"Apparently
Zen negates, but it is always holding up before us something
which
indeed lies right before our own eyes; and if we do not pick it up by
ourselves,
it is our own fault. Most people, whose mental vision is
darkened
by the clouds of ignorance, pass it by and refuse to look at it.
To them
Zen is, indeed, nihilism, just because they do not see it." p. 52
D. T.
Suzuki Introduction to Zen Buddhism
George
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 16:07:23 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: oriental vs occidental II
Hello!
Much of George's responsive is relative to his own experience. Just
becaus
you experience something as true doesn't mean it's true for anyone
else.
Is living a life with job, wife, kids, bills a settled & therefore
disciplined
way of living? Perhaps it is for you, for some. For others it may
be just
the opposite. You lived the way Kerouac & Co. did but recognized how
destructive
it was. Fine. Destructive for you Destructive for them. Perhaps.
Does
that negate Kerouac & Co. in any way? Perhaps from your own experience
&