as it's
grounded in history and he just gave his friends some 'silly
hats'. (Though I'm sure there were more than a few
poetic extrapolations
in his
writing.) I know many people see
Kerouac's writing as
autobiographical
or journal writings but it was just a weird jump for me.
But
what if the 'funny hats' went the other way.
What if Ann Charters
writes
another Kerouac biography but instead of saying 'Jack did
this...',she
says, 'Sal did this...' or she says 'Neal and Jack drove to
Los
Gatos...' she says 'Cody and Dulouz drove to Los Gatos.' What if
Levi
changes the names on his website to these crazed fictional characters
who
really dug jazz and the Buddha, drank too much, and drove all over the
country?
I'm
sure any postmodernists out there are probably going mad at this
point -
trust me, I'm not trying to decontrust Jack's writings. But it
just
seems to allow for a gray area to open up between fiction and
non-fiction. I know that of late there's been this 'new'
field of
writing
called 'historical fiction' or something late that, but it
doesn't
seem to all that new all of a sudden.
(And I'm sure people were
doing
it for hundreds of years before Jack et al.)
(I'm
sure there's a Master's thesis in here, somewhere...)
Now,
obviously, this doesn't hold for every 'beat' author....but it can
make a
person wonder about what goes on in their own mind as they reflect
on an
event or tell a story, make a few name changes here or a different
location
there and suddenly you're not in Kansas anymore. And if you want
to push
it further, you can entertain questions about the existence of
any
reality outside our own realm of the senses.
(Kinda like the mind
games
Terry Gilliam demonstrates in his movies...)
Ted
Harms Library, Univ. of Waterloo
tmharms@library.uwaterloo.ca 519.888.4567 x3761
"I
got it all when I gave it back."
N. Young
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 15:37:24 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jon Schwartz <JBS@UWYO.EDU>
Subject: Re: beat: fiction or non-fiction
A note
of caution - recall Burroughs' comment
in Ron's interview posted
here
this week, in which when asked about something Kerouac wrote about
incidents
with the Burroughs' character...WB said something like, well, Jack
was
writing fiction... WB did add that there was *some* veracity in the
fiction. And of course Ginsberg called Jack the
"Great Rememberer," in his
intro
to "Visions of Cody," I think.
May be only my own ignorance showing,
but I'm
not at all sure that all of what Jack wrote "really" happened.
Just my
own 2 pennies...
Jon
Schwartz
Wyoming
Public Radio
>It
just hit me a few days ago that what Jack Kerouac wrote really
>happened. I'm not trying to display my ignorance, it
was just a weird
>moment
of clarity...
>
>I
always approached his work as fiction - sure, maybe there was some germ
>of
real life that he snowballed into an entire novel but I always felt as
>I
was reading him that it was an imaginary travelogue.
>
>
>Ted
Harms Library, Univ.
of Waterloo
>tmharms@library.uwaterloo.ca 519.888.4567 x3761
>"I
got it all when I gave it back."
N. Young
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 17:17:16 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: beat: fiction or non-fiction
Jack
stretched the truth,
the
whole truth,
and
nothing but the truth.
It's
called
Fictionalized
Autobiography.
Novelizing.
Proetry.
You
decide.
With
best regards
and in
good faith,
I
remain
John
Hasbrouck,
from
Chicago.
P.S.
Ask me about specific instances of Jack altering
"what
really happened" to suit his purposes. Better yet,
let's
all post our favorite passages from Jack's
"historical"
works where he's clearly "making it up."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 08:55:34 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: dawn m zarubnicky
<fedex@UNM.EDU>
Subject: Re: beat: fiction or non-fiction
In-Reply-To: <31EE719C.54FE@tezcat.com>
Jack's
"reality" may not have been Allen's "reality" or Burrough's
"reality"...Just
as Carolyn's view of events Jack writes about are
different
from Jack's "fiction"....Everyone can be in the same room and
experience
the same event, but if you asked each person to write down
their
perception of what happened, it would be different...
In my
opinion, the beauty of Kerouac's novels are that they chronical an
important
time in our country's history from an outsiders point of view..
If I
were an American History teacher, I would use Kerouac's novels (even
though
they are classified as fiction) as a representation of a segment of
America
in the late 1940's and 1950's and as the catalyst for events of
the 1960's.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 17:04:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Burroughs Exhibit
Halloo
Everybody,
Just
got back from LA and the Burroughs exhibit today. Absolutely
comendable
job. Congratulations are due Robert Sobieszek (hope I spelled
that
right) curator of the exhibit, not only for Ports of Entry, but for
the
thoroughly researched, well-presented catalogue for the show. This
was a
class act all the way. A must see for anyone in the area (I flew
from
Toronto to see it).
Didn't
get a chance to go to the gala opening, but Ginsberg was there,
along
with Giorno, Van Sant, and Di Caprio. Oh, and Burroughs of course,
and
James Grauerholz, and McRary (as far as I know). Went to the press
preview
and opening day for the public. Good retrospective, covers all
the
necessary ground. Was a tad dissapointed there wasn't more of his
latest
monochrome paintings with broad, calligraphic impasto strokes. There
are all
sorts of little spirits hiding in those brush\mushroom\hand strokes.
The
highlight of the show was a sculpture called Untitled from 1992 (I
think I
have the date right) that was _Place of Dead Roads_ personified.
It was
the one piece I would have loved (most) to have in my living room.
More
later. (after weekend I'll come back with more to say)
I'm
looking to sell a review to a magazine\newspaper, so if anyone knows
anywhere
that might be interested, I can provide the goods.
Even if
you don't make it to the show, get the catalogue. Trust me.
Cheers,
Neil
word
fallen... photo fallen
(Yes
folks, I was that impressed)
PS
There's also an exhibit of Ginsberg's photography that runs to August
24th or
something. Will post further info on Monday.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 17:08:30 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: SPOTS OF TIME
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject:
Re: beat: fiction or non-fiction
Yes, I
have heard Burroughs stress many times that Jack was a "writer of
fiction."
Though his books may be based on actual events, I understood what
Burroughs
was saying was that his writings were not to be taken as complete
actual
truth.
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 19:19:22 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: beat: fiction or non-fiction
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 18 Jul 1996 17:17:16 +0000
from
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
What a
great idea Hasbro has. Let's do that --
point out passages Jack made up
. If they are short we can post them to the
list, if too long give citations.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 09:30:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Lowe <hdnfalls@POND.COM>
Subject: Beat Generation Action Figures--
"What
a great idea Hasbro has. Let's do that..."
Or
better still, let Hasbro Toys know there is a potential boom market for
Beat
Generation Action Figures!
<HAW!>
Best--
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 23:31:36 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Beat Generation Action Figures--
At
09:30 AM 7/19/96 -0400, you wrote:
>"What
a great idea Hasbro has. Let's do that..."
>
>Or
better still, let Hasbro Toys know there is a potential boom market for
>Beat
Generation Action Figures!
><HAW!>
>Best--
>Mark
>
>Groovin
man here's one: Hunke the Junky you turn his head and he mainlines.
Neal Cassady real smoke comes out his
nose as he twists one up.
Jack Kerouac you lift his arm and he
downs a fifth of Johnnie Walker
scotch.
Burroughs would have a gun that would
shoot his wifes head off.
Lew Welch you wind it up and it walks
of into the woods and you
never see it again.( only a one shot deal)
Any other ideas to send to Hasbro post
em
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 14:33:33 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Geogia <savannah@SEKER.ES>
Subject: The Cat Inside
Comments:
To: Beat-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@vm.cnuce.cnr.it
Hi!
I would
like to know information about all the Burrough's writings such as
"
Cities
of red night " ( or something like this ) , The Cat Inside, The
White
Subway
( more or less , too ), The letters of Yage, etc. I am interested in
the
publishers, year of edition and publication ( or reeditions )and
prices.
Greetings,
Georgia;-)))
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 16:12:14 +0300
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ofer H."
<ofer@NETVISION.NET.IL>
Subject: Re: The Cat Inside
>
Hi!
> I
would like to know information about all the Burrough's writings such
as
>
"
>
Cities of red night " ( or something like this ) , The Cat Inside, The
>
White
>
Subway ( more or less , too ), The letters of Yage, etc. I am interested
in
>
the publishers, year of edition and publication ( or reeditions )and
>
prices.
> Greetings,
> Georgia;-)))
>
>
try
http://www.amazon.com for details. they carry almost every burroughs
out
there.
good
luck,
ofer.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 14:35:47 GMT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "s. mark johnson"
<smark@NYC.PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: The Cat Inside
Comments:
To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@vm.its.rpi.edu>
On Jul
21, 1996 16:12:14, '"Ofer H." <ofer@NETVISION.NET.IL>' wrote:
>Cities
of red night " ( or something like this ) , The Cat Inside, The
>>
White
>>
Subway ( more or less , too ), The letters of Yage, etc. I am interested
>in
>>
the publishers, year of edition and publication ( or reeditions )and
>>
prices.
>> Greetings,
>> Georgia;-)))
Hi,
Georgia. The Yage Letters was written
by both Burroughs and Ginsberg
and
published by City Lights in 1963. They
are at 261 Columbus Ave, San
Francisco,
Ca.94133. "Cities of the Red
Night"Was published in 1981 by
Holt,
Rinehart, Winston at 383 madison Ave, New York, NY10017, and I'm
happy
to have a first edition. The Cat Inside
I do not have, but I'm sure
you
could locate it through Holt or City Lights.
Mark J
--
s. mark
johnson
"If
it ain't broke, don't fix it."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 12:33:20 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: SPOTS OF TIME
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Cat Inside
The Cat
Inside came out in 1992 from Viking, though parts of it were printed
earlier
in 1986. The White Subway will probably be the hardest to find, my copy
is a
paperback from Aloes seolA publishers in London, in a printing of 1,000
copies,
25 of which were hardbound and signed and numbered by Burroughs.
Strangely
enough, I can't find a year in my copy so I'm stumped. His bio or
bibliography
have the date in it I'm sure.
Good
luck,
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 15:44:20 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Cat Inside
White
Subway was published in 1973.
Jeffrey
Wate
Row Books
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 08:47:08 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: beat: fiction or non-fiction
Bill
Gargan wrote:
>
>
What a great idea Hasbro has. Let's do
that -- point out passages Jack made
up
>
. If they are short we can post them to
the list, if too long give citations.
Yo!
Bill! et al.
One of
my current favorites is the passage in "On The Road" where Sal and
Dean
are
at a
carnival somewhere and Sal describes Dean's fascination with a midget woman
who
he
proceeds to follow around wide-eyed. I believe it's the Nicosia bio which
clarifies
this incident, which actually involved Neal's lustful ogling of a
9-year-old
girl. I assume Nicosia found this info in Jack's "On the Road
Journal."
John
Hasbrouck (that's HASBRO with an UCK)
Chicago
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 12:00:55 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: DAVID W MYERS
<dwm3766@MAILER.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: favorite excerpt
Comments:
cc: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM@listserv.cuny.edu>
In-Reply-To: <31F3400C.228F@tezcat.com>
Somewhere
in On the Road, jack muses on the deity,
...and
don't you know that God is Pooh bear.
David M
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 12:10:55 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: Re: FAVORITE EXCERPT
>From
"Visions of Cody" (I think, maybe "On the Road") and I
quote from
memory,
so please forgive any mistakes:
"My father gone, my brother
gone, my mother far away...
nothing but me and my tragic
hands..."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 12:06:45 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J.D. P. Lafrance"
<J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>
Organization:
Ridley College
Subject: Re: FAVORITE EXCERPT
and
another classic bit from ON THE ROAD:
"So
in America when the sun goes down and I sit on the old broken-down river
pier
watching the long, long skies over New Jersey and sense all that raw land
that
rolls in one unbelieable huge bulge over to the West Coast, and all that
road
going, all the people dreaming in the immensity of it...."
bfn,
JDL
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 14:10:33 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: FAVORITE EXCERPT
Remember
gang, the idea here is cite your favorite Kerouac passage in
which
JACK CHANGES THE FACTS, STRETCHING THE TRUTH FOR WHATEVER REASON,
AND
THUS MYTHOLOGIZES HIS LIFE AND THE LIVES OF HIS BEAT FRIENDS.
John H.
Chicago
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 12:51:07 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Whiskey Weird Smith
<psu06729@ODIN.CC.PDX.EDU>
Subject: Re: FAVORITE EXCERPT
Comments:
To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments:
cc: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <31F38BD9.A60@tezcat.com>
On Mon,
22 Jul 1996, John W. Hasbrouck wrote:
>
Remember gang, the idea here is cite your favorite Kerouac passage in
>
which JACK CHANGES THE FACTS, STRETCHING THE TRUTH FOR WHATEVER REASON,
>
AND THUS MYTHOLOGIZES HIS LIFE AND THE LIVES OF HIS BEAT FRIENDS.
>
>
John H.
>
Chicago
>
okay,
but...bleedin' jayzus, we'd then have to quote every word he ever
wrote,
the whole balzacian jewel hive (sic)! It's all stretching, it's
all
fiction, it's all metaphor--even the life itself. See Faulkner for
fiction
being more "true" (whatever that is) than what actually happens
(i.e.
reportage).
bests,
Steve
R. Smith
Graduate
Teaching Assistant
Department
of English
Portland
State University
Box 751
Portland, OR 97207
503-725-3556
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 08:46:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: bUrroughs rEcording
Hello
folks.
william
Miller here.
Someone
posted information to the list about a month ago, regarding a
recording
on which (forgive my memory) Burroughs voice is heard over Middle
Eastern
music. I think that the word
"Mission" was part of the (or the
entire??)
title, or the artist(s) name.
Please,
someone, refresh my memory.
WM
PS is
Ted Pelton still on the List?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 09:18:48 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: made-up passages
Hold
on, folks. I think we're losing focus
on the question of which are
the
best passages that Kerouac MADE UP -- hence not drawn from life.
This --
not our favorite passages -- was the point under discussion.
Nothing
wrong with citing one's favorite passage but I think the
original
question makes for more interesting discussion.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 10:06:12 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "I'M OFF TO THE MOON FOR A CUP
OF SAKE." <breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: bUrroughs rEcording
Yes,
that mid eastern album with Burroughs on it was by a group called Material
with an
album name of SEVEN SOULS. I was told it was out of print but I think
Jeffrey
at Water Row said they had some left. Are you out there Jeffrey? Am I
right
on that?
Anyway,
it is a very interesting album, a very worthwhile Burroughs piece. Grab
one if
you can.
Dave
Breithaupt
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 08:01:08 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jon Schwartz <JBS@UWYO.EDU>
Subject: Re: FAVORITE EXCERPT
Yes! This, along with the last couple of lines
about Dean Moriarity (and
the old
Dean, father of Dean whom they searched for and never found) are
wonderful,
American gut level vision...hearing and seeing Jack read this is
a
wonderful experience - many of you know this was taped on the Steve Allen
tv
show...also available on cd and vinyl from Rhino.
Best
regards,
Jon
Schwartz
Wyoming
Public Radio
jbs@uwyo.edu
>and
another classic bit from ON THE ROAD:
>
>"So
in America when the sun goes down and I sit on the old broken-down
river
>pier
watching the long, long skies over New Jersey and sense all that raw
land
>that
rolls in one unbelieable huge bulge over to the West Coast, and all
that
>road
going, all the people dreaming in the immensity of it...."
>
>bfn,
>JDL
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 13:07:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: bUrroughs rEcording
Yup,
I'm here, Dave -
We have
one copy left in stock of Seven Souls. Cassette format.
If
anyone is interested, let me know.
Jeffrey
Water
Row Books
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:11:23 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: VISIONS OF CODY QUOTE
Last
night I thumbed through my copy of VC and located the quote I tried to
remember
yesterday. This was also recited by
Kerouac on the Tonight Show in
1957
with Steve Allen accompaning on piano.
Also on the Kerouac Spoken Word
CD put
out by Rhino.
Paul
********************************************************************************
"I'm
writing this book because we're all going to die--In the loneliness of my
life,
my father dead, my brother dead, my mother faraway, my sister and my
wife
far away, nothing here but my own tragic hands that once were guarded by
a
world, a sweet attention, that now are left to guide and disappear their own
way
into the common dark of all our death, sleeping in me raw bed, alone and
stupid: with just this one pride and
consolation: my heart broke in the
general
despair and opened up inwards to the Lord, I made supplication in this
dream."
Visions
of Cody
p. 368
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 22:01:48 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J.D. P. Lafrance"
<J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>
Organization:
Ridley College
Subject: Re: FAVORITE EXCERPT
Jon
Schwartz writes:
>
Yes! This, along with the last couple
of lines about Dean Moriarity (and
>
the old Dean, father of Dean whom they searched for and never found) are
>
wonderful, American gut level vision...hearing and seeing Jack read this is
> a
wonderful experience - many of you know this was taped on the Steve Allen
> tv
show...also available on cd and vinyl from Rhino.
How
true! Nothing beats hearing/seeing Kerouac read that passage (or any of his
stuff
for that matter!) and listening to the way he pronounces words and just
the way
he reads his own work. It greatly enhances the prose - and just the fact
that
the "famous" appearance on the Steve Allen Show was a clever
blend/fusion
of
Visions of Cody and On the Road... right on!
bfn,
JDL
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 06:53:18 -0400
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From: j thomas bailey
<jabailey@VT.EDU>
Subject: Re: FAVORITE EXCERPT
hello...
i've
been on the list for awhile, just haven't posted...
i agree
w/ what everyone is saying about Kerouac's recordings...i
recently
purchased Rhino's Kerouac Collection(3 cd set) and it is just
beautiful.
i
highly recommend it...i also have Rhino's Beat Generation boxed set
and
that is great as well...not only do you get great readings from the
writers(Ginsberg's
reading of America is just great, the first time i
heard
it i cried like a baby)but a great sampling of the music of the
50's
and some very interesting media coverage of the Beat Generation.
Rhino,
in my opinion, has done a great job putting these sets together
and i
recommend them to anyone w/ a great love of theses writers...
i heard
that Rhino is putting out a Burroughs set. is that true and if
so
when?
see you...
j
thomas bailey
Angel
mine...be you fine.
-Jack
Kerouac
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 09:11:58 +0000
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From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac in "Go"
Lapislove
wrote (regarding John Clellon Holmes' portrayal of Kerouac in "Go"):
>
> I
don't know if I'd agree that this is a "fictionalized" account of
>
Kerouac - or at least anymore fictionalized than the way Kerouac portrays
>
himself and the same characters and events in his novels (bringing up the
>
discussion over what was "real" and what was "fictional" in
Kerouac's
>
work). Many of the people and events we see in "Go" we also see in
Kerouac
>
novels, the main differences in the stories being a matter of perception.
> I
think that's one thing that's so interesting about "Go" - that we get
to
>
see how someone else perceived Kerouac, and how that differs from his
>
self-perception.
>
>
-Liz
If you
will consult the relevant biographies, memiors, and published letters of
the
time period surrounding the events covered in Holmes' "Go", you'll
see that
"Go"
is considerably more fictionalized than most of Kerouac's
"autobiographical
fiction". Interestingly, Kerouac's first novel, "The Town and
the
City", which covers the same period as "Go", is the most
"fictionalized" of
the
books he wrote in this vein. At least the first half of the book is. Midway
through
writing "The Town in the City" Jack met Neal Cassady and his (Jack's)
writing
style changed drastically. The latter half of the book is therefore
very
different stylistically and sticks much closer to actual events.
It's
fun to compare the treatment of specific events which appear in both
"Go"
and
"The Town and the City" such as the arrest of Ginsberg and Huncke in
1949,
and
also the murder of David Kammerer by Lucien Carr. If you REALLY want to do
some
fascinating comparative reading, (I'm now straying from the original
topic),
read the treatment of Kammerer's murder in "The Town and the City"
and
then
read about it in Kerouac's "Visions of Duluoz". Reading about this
event
in
Kerouac's first book, which he completed at age 25, and then reading his
account
of the same event written over 20 years later gives one an amazing
impression
of the dramatic contrast between his early writing and his (much)
later
style.
John
Hasbrouck
Chicago
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 09:35:59 +0000
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From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Fictionalized Truth
I just
thought of another passage where Kerouac changes the facts
surrounding
actual events to suit his literary purposes. And this one is
really
early.
In
"The Town and the City", during the passage about the murder of David
Kammerer
by Lucien, Kerouac describes Kammerer as missing an arm. This
is
entirely made up. I recall reading somewhere (probably one of the
bios)
that Burroughs read this passage and thought that this
"mutilation"
of the Kammerer was absolutely inspired. Burroughs remarked
that he
always thought that Kammerer was "crippled in some way".
John
Hasbrouck
Chicago
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 09:46:32 -0500
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From: Doug Wacker <dwacker@IN.NET>
Subject: Hitchhiking Update
I was
watching some news show last night (Primetime?), can't remember
the
name, and it did a story on hitchhiking across the U.S. A reporter
was
followed by a station van as he hitched rides and videotaped
conversations
he had with multiple ride-givers. The
reporter made
multiple
references to Kerouac and visited Lowell.
The show at one
point
played a recording of Kerouac reciting some lines from 'On The
Road'. The show touched on some issues that were
discussed on the list
a few
months ago (how American was becoming too violent to hitchhike
[just
America's violence in general], etc.)
The people the reporter met
along
the way were great, too. He met an old
school friend he hadn't
seen
for years and who he did not even recognize from the get-go, a
family
visiting a loved one in jail, a near sixty-year old kite flyer
who
recited a little verse. It was a
pleasant suprise to see something
interesting
on network t.v. Anybody catch it?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 12:35:39 -0400
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From: Lorraine Maffei
<MPSLori@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Hitchhiking Update
Unfortunately
I only saw the very end of the story last night on Primetime.
Thanks for filling in the story - it caught
my attention too.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 17:44:02 -0400
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From: Daniel Marleau
<dmarleau@NETROVER.COM>
Subject: Trip to Lowell
Hi
everybody,
I am in
Montreal (Quebec) and I want to go to Lowell this summer.
Can you
recommend me an itinenary (excuse my english!) with or without a
guide
(en fran=E7ais ou en anglais) for see and feel the spirit of Jack
Kerouac.
(Remember his M=E9m=E8re, (grand-m=E8re, grandmother)
Excerpt
from Doctor Sax :
=ABIl
commence a tombez de la neige=BB...
It will
be interesting for me to meet few Franco-American.
Thank's
for your response.
Daniel
Marleau
dmarleau@netrover.com
http://www.netrover.com/~dmarleau/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 18:08:41 -0400
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From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Beats' night out Lowell
To
anyone interested. There is a great folk festival in Lowell Mass. this
weekend
July 26-28 with all kinds of great ethnic food and music, crafts and
even
fireworks all events are free. Check it out at
http://www.lowell.org/lowell/FolkFestival/ During the festival Saturday
July 27
5-7PM Lowell Celebrates Kerouac is featuring "Beats' night out" with
music
and spoken word featuring Kindred, Meg Smith, Ed Dyer, Roger Brunelle,
and Amy
Kopaczewski. Lowell Celebrates Kerouac will also have a booth at the
corner
of Shattuck and Merrimack street during the festival. Hope to see you
all
there. Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 08:38:09 -0400
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From: "Christa D. Neu"
<NEUCD@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Hitchhiking Update
Yes, I
saw the special when it originally aired, and I liked the idea for the
story,
but it can't have been a pure test of the minds of America in terms of
testing
the safety of hitchhiking;
unfortunately the reporter was not
hitchhiking
alone..and was trailed by a camera crew..the fact that it was a
news
story may have influenced people to slow down and pick him up.
I do
like seeing pieces of the driver's lives, the way I enjoyed reading
about
the people that William Least Heat Moon described the people he
encountered
in "Blue Highways". But I
agree with something Steinbeck said in
"Travels
with Charley"...something to the effect of going on his journey
alone
because once you add other people, it changes the entire dynamic of the
trip...imagine
how an entire news crew affected the interaction.
(But
the kite flyer was great.)
Christa
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 19:03:28 -0400
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From: Lowe <hdnfalls@POND.COM>
Subject: "The Cat Inside"/Anyone need a
copy?
Since a
good deal of last week's typing here was devoted to Uncle Bill's
"The
Cat Inside" I want to let other newsgroup members know that I'm no
doubt
readying to part with <ouch!> the good company of 2 copies of
Burroughs'
cat.
One is
the "cadillac edition" of only 18 copies signed by both Burroughs
&
Brion
Gysin. The second is the slightly more "regular" edition of 133
copies,
again signed by both Burroughs & Gysin. OK--I'll confess...Sad to
say I
need to part w/these before my soon-to-be-ex-spouse realizes that
these
are SOMEWHAT VALUEABLE BOOKS. You catch my drift.
Give a
shout for details, right?
Thanks--
<sigh>
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 09:42:35 EST
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From: "I'M OFF TO THE MOON FOR A CUP
OF SAKE." <breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: "The Cat Inside"/Anyone
need a copy?
How
much for that cadillac edition of The Cat Inside?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 17:50:46 -0500
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From: "L.Kelly"
<lpk@KDSI.NET>
Subject: Cut-up Machine
If
you've ever wanted to see Burroughs' visualization of the cut-up
machine
come to life, you might want to visit a new side project of mine
called,
of all things, the cut-up machine. It
is part of a larger
Burroughs
collection....All located:
http://www.bigtable.com/wsb/
You'll
find the link to the cutup machine at the top of the page.
Your
comments are welcome and anticipated and future improvements
depend
on them.....thanks!
~~~~Luke
PS:
Copy a block of your favorite (or most detested) prose to your
clipboard
(if applicable) to be prepared ahead of time :).
---
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 08:44:30 -0400
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From: Lowe <hdnfalls@POND.COM>
Subject: <For GEORGIA--please confirm eamail
address?>
Hey,
Georgia--
Thanks
for your interest in the Cat--
My mail
to you with the particulars keeps bouncing back to me though.
Would
you email me at Hdnfalls@pond.com to confirm your address?
I'll
get the information right to you--
Thanks--
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 21:56:25 +0300
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From: Michael Czarnecki
<peent@SERVTECH.COM>
Subject: Route 20, Readings, contacts?
I'm a
poet and small press publisher from Corning, New York planning a
cross-country
driving trip beginning around September 20th. I'll be leaving
Boston
and heading west, driving US Route 20, all the way across the
country
to Newport, Oregon. I'm calling the adventure "Twenty Days On Route
20"
and am planning to write a book on the experience. The book will be
modeled
after Basho's travel sketches, a combination of prose and haiku
called
haibun.
I'm
hoping to arrange some readings for myself along the way and also want
to
touch base with book stores, cafes, coffeehouses, lit centers etc. Does
anyone
have any contacts for readings, places to stay (low budget trip),
etc.
along 20 that I might follow up on? You could send direct so as to not
take up
space on list.
This
also happens to be the 25th anniversary of my buying a backpack and
sticking
the thumb out on the road from Buffalo for the first time. The
30,000
miles I hitchiked over a few years forever changed my life.
Interested
to see what comes of this more tamed adventure.
Thanks,
Michael
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 16:40:23 -0400
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From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Beat discussion in David Donnell
interview
Howdy
all,
I know
I promised more info and a review of the Burroughs show, but as
things
turned out the magazine I'm selling the review to doesn't have their
deadline
for a few weeks, so my review is still actually just a bunch of
scattered
notes. What took precedence was an interview I did with David
Donnell,
a Toronto area poet, for Hook & Ladder, an independent journal
of
Canadian poetry. The interview was about his 8th book of poetry
_Dancing
in the Dark_, but we ended up discussing several Beat-related
topics,
and I figured it might spark some disussion. If it doesn't, then
I
apologize, but I thought some of it would be of interest so I'll give
you the
relevant exerpts.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
David
Donnell: When you're reading a book you have to say, "How old is this
person
supposed to be?" because you're reading topography, you're reading
language,
you're reading print. You can't see the person. How old is
Hamlet?
I think Hamlet is about 18, or 19 years old, possibly 20.
Age is
something you can choose to some degree. You can choose to
suddenly
age ten years in two weeks by rearranging your life in a rather
conservative
way, or you can choose to be forever young, like the Bob
Dylan song.
Which is obviously, there's an allusion there, but it's one
of the
gentler allusions, one of the less dangerous allusions compared to
certain
allusions to dissolution or negativity, or anything like that.
Neil
Hennessy: In that case it's just a prayer of a father for his son.
DD:
Sure, sure. So the book is centered minimally speaking on
under-thirties,
and the youth culture of the early 90's. But I mean if I
were to
literally write that on the blackboard, say if I were sdoing a
classroom
thing, with some work from the book, it would seem a little
pedantic.
So I woud say, "If this sounds a little pedantic don't expect
anything
quite that tight, from any specific piece." And I move around
all
over the place in that book. There are a number of, if you put that
tight a
definition on the blackboard then you'd have to say there are a
number
of pieces that don't quite fit. An awful lot of it does. The Jack
Kerouac
piece is in there partly because Kerouac has had a continuing
fascination
for people, and he's a terrific writer. He was a youth
writer,
he was in a sense a youth writer in his thirties. He was always a
youth
writer, in a sense.
NH:
That was actually one of his problems because he couldn't grow out of it.
DD:
Couldn't grow out of it, and also he's just suddenly came into
contact
with so much of youth culture at that time that he didn't really
accept.
NH:
Yeah, and he was a Viet Nam supporter.
DD: We
shouldn't mention that during the uhh (interview?) (laughs)...
NH: One
of the things Burroughs says quite often apparently according to
David
(David Ohle, Burroughs' friend), if you ask Burroughs about Kerouac
he'll
say, "That Jack, he was a Mama's boy, and a bloody right-winger too."
DD:
Well, you know Bull Lee isn't that far off. He was a Mama's boy in a
sense,
and one of the most beautiful things he ever wrote was that poem;
it's
his only good poem. I'm not dissing him, but he only wrote, I think
this is
his only good poem. I think the poem is called "My Mother Smiling
Like
Buddha". A poem about his Mother's
face, and her wonderful eternal
smile.
And of course, you're thinking, this must be a sentimental poem.
It's
just one note off, away from sentimental. Almost, but it's actually
an
interesting poem, and a good poem, and when you hear him read it, it's
really
a nice reading. You would turn around if you were in a bar and he
read
this poem, you would turn around to hear the whole thing. Dead on
poem,
the only good poem he ever wrote as far as I'm concerned.
NH: I
haven't actually read any of his poetry, I've shied away from it.
DD: His
novels are much better.
NH:
Well I've read several of his novels. My favourite was actually
Satori
in Paris, which was the last 'autobiographical' type book he wrote.
And
after that I guess he felt trapped by the sort of didactic stuff of
his
youth I guess, with his spontaneous prose and that, and he felt
trapped
and he tried to write fiction. It was a story about a little
black
kid that rides a bus to New York. He never actually finished it,
it's
called Pic.
DD:
That was in his typewriter when he died?
NH: He
was still writing it, yeah.
DD: He
was still writing it.
NH: So
New Directions published them together, Satori in Paris and Pic.
That
was my favourite of his novels. He goes to Paris and he's reflecting
about
his whole life and trying to discover his roots, and eventually he
says,
"I'm not really a Buddhist, I'm just a crazy French Catholic Canuck."
DD:
Isn't it amazing how everybody wants identity? And how so many people
reach a
point where they've got to have it in a shoe-box. Sort of like
these
are size 9 triple E Oxford mens, and it has to be written in
stencil.
I don't think you, you know, identity is important, of course
you
know identity is one of the most, one of the big psychological
dynamics
that you study if you're studying individual psychology, or
group
psychology.
NH:
Philosophy as well.
DD:
Yeah, sure, but I don't think you can get it down quite that tight.
Maybe he
was just joking. Because Jack was obviously a sort of Buddhist.
Dharma
Bums is good.
NH:
That's probably, of the road novels, it's probably the next one that
I like.
It's actually a happy one. Because I mean Big Sur or some of the
other
ones are pretty depressing.
DD:
Desolation Angels.
NH:
When he gets heavy into the alcoholism. They're just morbid; whereas
Dharma
Bums is all happy, with him meditating on the mountain and everything.
DD:
It's idyllic.
NH: It
was a nice read. You walked away feeling good about yourself, and
Kerouac,
and the world.
DD:
Yeah, and that's wonderful if you can make a reader feel that way,
that's
terrific.
.
.
(Later on)
.
(About
performance poets)
DD:
Well I think you can afford to be intellectually self-indulgent in
terms
of thematic coherence for example. As far as thematic coherence
goes
you can afford to be a little self-indulgent when you're
performing,
if you're moving the voice, if the energy is moving, if you're
making
points as you go along. When you're on paper the work has to I think
assume
focus, and clarity, a little faster and with more continuity.
Something
extraordinary like Ulysses or Finnegan's Wake or Cities of the
Red
Night by William Burroughs - I reviewed that for the Globe. I think
I
reviewed all three novels of that trilogy for the Globe. Cities of the
Red
Night, The Place of Dead Roads, and The Western Lands I guess was
the
third one. But anyway, books like Cities of the Red Night were not
done as
performance art. I like a lot of performance stuff, it's fun.
Very
often I feel a sort of general, a bit of an intellectual void at
the
centre.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Incidentally,
David went on to say that Burroughs has an enormous amount
of
respect for Kerouac as a writer (which bears out if you read his
'Remembering
Jack Kerouac' piece in _The Adding Machine_), but that
towards
the end of Kerouac's life Burroughs no longer respected him as a
person.
Anyhow,
I disagree with Donnell to some extent about _Cities_ not being
for
performance. Burroughs did an extensive reading tour for _Cities_
along
with Laurie Anderson and John Giorno, and at least one CD was
produced
out of it called "So You're the One I Want to Share My Money
With".
I think the audience response on this CD attests to the fact that
there
are several pieces in _Cities_ that go over very well in
performance.
One of the things that impressed me about Burroughs is that
he
shoots from the hip - there are no screens set up between him and his
writing,
he does not assume any writerly stance. He reports it as he sees
it.
Sometimes when he is speaking in conversation, you could simply
record
it and it could appear in his writing (especially _My Education_).
He is
very genuine, and honest in his life and work, an artist with
integrity
(and I'm not talking about Nike add bull-shit, if they're
willing
to pay him ridiculous amounts of money to peddle shoes for 30
seconds,
why not buy a comfortable retirement?).
"Woodstock
rises from Kerouac's pages."
William S. Burroughs
Again,
I apologize if people didn't think this was worth posting.
Cheers,
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 10:02:34 -0400
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From: Rodgers
<Rodgers@TRACOR-A4.CCMGATE.TRACOR.COM>
Subject: Burroughs quote
"Woodstock rises from Kerouac's
pages."
William S. Burroughs
Now Bull Lee you know better than
that. Woodstock rose from the
festival promoter's pressure treated
dream to cash in ,not Kerouac's
pages.
The fact that the promoters lost
money probably pleased Jacky
more than anything. Oh I'm sorry, Woodstock spirit ya say? Bill,
honest reports speak of a Woodstock
Nation less glamorous and spirited
than depicted on the silver screen. Dennis Cook's report of the
festival in The Beat Generation is one of
the most objective accounts
I have read.
A lot of things rose from Jack's pages to
enlighten us all. Woodstock
was not one of them.
Ron