=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 21:07:39 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher
<brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but
what the hell
In-Reply-To:
<199705042119.OAA26747@denmark.it.earthlink.net> from "Gerald
Nicosia" at May 4, 97
02:19:34 pm
Gerry wrote:
> OK, I'm sure I explained to you, that
my problem from the start as
>
Jan's literary executor has been that her heir, exhusband John Lash, has
>
been seeking desperately for some grounds to dismiss me (so he can complete
>
his deal with John Sampas). I told you
to take the never-published PARROT
>
FEVER from your web site because, potentially, John Lash could go before the
>
Albuquerque court and say: "Look, Nicosia is GIVING AWAY OUR [his and
Jan's
>
half-brother's] PROPERTY. He has now
diminished the earning power of PARROT
>
FEVER by letting this guy Asher print it for nothing."
Okay, I
understand and accept this (although you didn't explain this
before). I never questioned your right, as Jan's
literary executor,
to call
the shots as you see them, and I am more sympathetic as well,
now
that you've explained why you'd asked me to stop running this piece.
I
really only brought this up because I think John Sampas, as Jack Kerouac's
literary
executor, also has the right to call the shots as he sees
them,
and I think he must have his own private reasons, just as you
have
yours in this "Parrot Fever" situation, for taking the actions that
you
have objected to.
> So let's make a trade-off here. Until the Appellate Court in Santa
> Fe
makes a final ruling on the extent of my powers, I'm not going to give
>
Mr. Lash any ammunition concerning how careless I am with his property.
>
What I can do is give you permission to print an equal amount of Jan's work
>
(equal no. of words) as was in the PARROT FEVER excerpt, from either of her
>
out-of-print books BABY DRIVER or TRAINSONG.
You tell me what excerpt you
>
want, what page to what page, and I'll fax you a letter of permission.
Thanks
for this offer -- but there really is something special I liked
about
publishing "previously unpublished works." So how about this,
instead
-- if you ever reach a point in your dispute with Lash where
you can
safely give me permission to run the Parrot Fever excerpt
again,
let me know, and till then I'll just keep it on file.
Now ...
let's end this here before we get another 90 messages
from
Italy ...
------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock album)
###################################
"Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
-- Bob Dylan
-----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:56:36 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Gerry ????????
Gerry,
you really didn't respond to this post.
>>Gerry,
I just looked at an uncorrected proof of "Some of the Dharma" and on
>one
of the first pages it states that the manuscript/notebooks (maybe 8 of
>them
can't remember how many)for "Some of the Dharma" were placed in the
>Berg
collection of the New York Public Library in 1993 by John Sampas. What
>do
you have to say about that? If it's not true why would it be in the book?
>
>By
the way Gerry the folks at Lowell Celebrates Kerouac all work very hard
>to
promote Kerouac and you are doing a terrible disservice when you go and
>try
to put us down because in your mind we are all part of the Sampas
>conspiracy
theory. I can assure you that many of the decent folks that work
>hard
to put this festival on every year don't know or care about your
>squabbles
with the Sampas family. Ed Sanders the main feature at the
>festival
last year did do a nice little tribute to Jan Kerouac at the
>festival.
You know what, his hotel bill was paid isn't that amazing? I'm not
>sure
but the probable reason you or Jan haven't been asked to speak is
>because
it's not "Lowell Celebrates Lawsuits" it's "Lowell Celebrates
>Kerouac"
and I'm quite sure that is what your agenda would be. It seems to
>be
your only one lately. We accept donations from anyone willing to give and
>I
haven't heard of any checks coming in from you ever. Maybe you would like
>it
better if no one donated anything and we didn't promote Kerouac at all in
>Lowell.
It seems like that is what you want. Keep your beef with John
>private
and don't try to drag down people that truly want to do some good
>and
promote Kerouac. Phil Chaput
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:24:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Various and Sundry--Mostly Pleas for
Help :-)
In a
message dated 97-05-04 11:47:56 EDT, you write:
<<
Wow. Been a long time. I first joined this list right after my father, Don
Carpenter, died in July 1995. >>
Bonnie:
I remember your father sitting with
Braughtigan and me on Haight St.
Watching
it build. He used to come down to the Tenderloin and talk to me. We
were in
front of a movie theatre where I had my photo taken. The one on
Apocayspe
Rose. I always wondered if he helped Braughtigan find a publisher.
I had
published some of B's poems. Sorry for your loss.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 16:06:21 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Moritz Rossbach
<moro0000@STUD.UNI-SB.DE>
Subject: jk's heritage
In-Reply-To:
<199705050407.VAA14124@netcom.netcom.com>
On Sun,
4 May 1997, Levi Asher wrote:
>
>
Now ... let's end this here before we get another 90 messages
>
from Italy ...
>
yup,thats
right rinaldo what does that mean, anyway?
people
are discussing serious toppings ;) and you send us some
kinderkacke!
no,
lets get serious. all i know about this kerouac estate fight is what i
learned
from the recent postings and i am sad to hear that it has come
that
far.
gerald,
your arguments sound reasonable and honest and i know why "the
other
side" dont comment, their selfish, profit-oriented and anti-social
behaviour
is revealed and everything they said now, would only be silly or
pointless.
i just cant understand why the rest of you stay silent...
as i
understand it this is about the future of the teaching of the
wonderful
literary history of the US. with all its light and shadow.
proof
me wrong or standup against the material profit of the selfish
individual
who betray the community.
mit
freundlichen gruessen
moritz
rossbach,saarbruecken, germany
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 08:28:42 CDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Wes Lundburg
<wlundburg@MAIL.FF.CC.MN.US>
Subject: Re: Looking for Jack...
>
Coming soon from Upstart Crow Publishing:
>
>
Looking For Jack: The Literary Influences of Jack Kerouac
> by
Paul A. Maher Jr.
>
>
This will be published in a limited quantity of 500 copies this summer.
>
This will be available by reservation only.
>
More info is forthcoming.....
>
Who
posted this? How can I get on the list
to purchase one a copy? Whoever
posted
this said to e-mail privately, but then didn't leave an e-mail address
(please
keep in mind that not everybody gets the original "from" line).
Please
post your e-mail, or e-mail ME privately so I can get more info!
---Wes
Lundburg
wlundburg@mail.ff.cc.mn.us
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 10:31:03 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MORE OXY THAN MORON
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: More than enough
Rinaldo
Can't
stop
cuz
he
likes
to
Bop.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 11:38:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Looking for Jack...
At
08:28 AM 5/5/97 CDT, you wrote:
>>
Coming soon from Upstart Crow Publishing:
>>
>>
Looking For Jack: The Literary Influences of Jack Kerouac
>>
by Paul A. Maher Jr.
>>
>>
This will be published in a limited quantity of 500 copies this summer.
>>
This will be available by reservation only.
>>
More info is forthcoming.....
>>
>
>Who
posted this? How can I get on the list
to purchase one a copy? Whoever
>posted
this said to e-mail privately, but then didn't leave an e-mail address
>(please
keep in mind that not everybody gets the original "from" line).
>
>Please
post your e-mail, or e-mail ME privately so I can get more info!
>
>---Wes
Lundburg
>wlundburg@mail.ff.cc.mn.us
>You
may want to contact Water Row Press at waterrow@aol.com. Keep in mind
that
this is a work in progress and won't be ready for a few more months.
Thanks,
Paul...
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 08:46:01 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Shannon L. Stephens"
<shanstep@CS.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Looking For Jack: grocery and other
haunts
Comments:
To: RACE --- <race@midusa.net>
In-Reply-To: <336B37A9.1A36@midusa.net>
SEND
THE GROCERY POEM AS IS!
My
thoughts have grown much more pensive in the frozen food isles (a land
far
away) after having read it.
-Shan
(list lurker)
On Sat,
3 May 1997, RACE --- wrote:
>
PAM wrote:
>
>
>
> >Hi Dave! You can recieve a copy for $5.00. Try submitting your poem
for
>
> publication if you want. You may send both (or one or the other) to:
>
> The Kerouac Quarterly
>
> 34 North Rd. #7
>
> Chelmsford, MA. 01824 Thanks,
Paul...
>
> so
i'm thinkin' about submitting the grocery poem to KQ. could people
>
more versed in verse be so kind as to send me some suggestions for
>
editing and revisions. please be
brutal.
>
>
then i'll work it a bit massage it here and there and there and here
>
and then figure out a way to get my printer running so that i can print
> it
and send it earthmail.
>
> i
appreciate ideas from anyone out there.
we're all born critics - just
>
some are born nice and polite too :)
>
>
david rhaesa
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 11:02:09 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Mitchell
<mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>
Subject: Estate of the State, for Rinaldo
Rinaldo,
as a student of American literature I'm sure you know that in
America
you ain't nobody until you have filed a claim to help fulfill your
personal
dream and/or been subpoenaed to participate in one: I sue/I am
sued,
ergo I existimento. Litigation is what
we have instead of love. Or
honor. Or life.
As for Jack's estate and related palavers, remember that
famous
line from American Lit., from <Death of a Salesman>, where Willy
Loman
realizes that he is "worth more dead than alive." (Life
insurance--heh
heh--so he hits the road, and runs into a real wall; of
course,
what his sons really wanted was--surprise--love! Biff is Beat.) O
Jack,
he knew this, Buddhawise. It depressed
him to realize that people
were
promoting him into a stardom (it got to Neal earlier) from which there
is
seldom an escape, even or especially on the road. Booze, drugs, that's
the
pill! Meanwhile there is no American
Dream without a commensurate
number
of woodticks and tape worms.// John M.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 09:32:09 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but
what the hell
>Now
... let's end this here before we get another 90 messages
>from
Italy ...
well we
could all just each reply to each of Rianldo's posts...to rinaldo
direct,
not the beat-l
How
many folks on the list? say 20. 20 * 90, 1800 50? 4500 letters in one
day to
one mailbox?
of
course iam am only pointing out a danger rinaldo has set himself up for.
don't really do it.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 09:33:16 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Gerry ????????
At
11:56 PM 5/4/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Gerry,
you really didn't respond to this post.
>
>
>>>Gerry,
I just looked at an uncorrected proof of "Some of the Dharma" and on
>>one
of the first pages it states that the manuscript/notebooks (maybe 8 of
>>them
can't remember how many)for "Some of the Dharma" were placed in the
>>Berg
collection of the New York Public Library in 1993 by John Sampas. What
>>do
you have to say about that? If it's not true why would it be in the book?
>>
>>By
the way Gerry the folks at Lowell Celebrates Kerouac all work very hard
>>to
promote Kerouac and you are doing a terrible disservice when you go and
>>try
to put us down because in your mind we are all part of the Sampas
>>conspiracy
theory. I can assure you that many of the decent folks that work
>>hard
to put this festival on every year don't know or care about your
>>squabbles
with the Sampas family. Ed Sanders the main feature at the
>>festival
last year did do a nice little tribute to Jan Kerouac at the
>>festival.
You know what, his hotel bill was paid isn't that amazing? I'm not
>>sure
but the probable reason you or Jan haven't been asked to speak is
>>because
it's not "Lowell Celebrates Lawsuits" it's "Lowell Celebrates
>>Kerouac"
and I'm quite sure that is what your agenda would be. It seems to
>>be
your only one lately. We accept donations from anyone willing to give and
>>I
haven't heard of any checks coming in from you ever. Maybe you would like
>>it
better if no one donated anything and we didn't promote Kerouac at all in
>>Lowell.
It seems like that is what you want. Keep your beef with John
>>private
and don't try to drag down people that truly want to do some good
>>and
promote Kerouac. Phil Chaput
>>
Dear
Phil, 5/5/97
This is getting ridiculous. You're wasting my time, I'm not going
to
answer the same questions twice. Did
you not get the post I sent in
reply,
beginning: "Jeffrey Weinberg told me he sold BOOK OF DREAMS to a
private
collector"? I got the report from
Beat-List saying it was sent.
The only thing I left out is that
federal funding was cut from the
Lowell
Kerouac Committee after complaints were made to the National Park
Service
about the partisan use of funding for past Kerouac events. Even the
National
Park Service doesn't think your committee deserves funding any
more--so
why should I fund it?
Tell Sampas to get on here himself, so
we can stop running around in
circles
and get to the heart of the matter.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 19:19:01 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Emilio Vedova e i beats?.
cari
amici beats,
'bout
Emilio Vedova, is the greatest painter living at
present
in italy & he is venetian, he lives in an house
near
Punta della Dogana (San Marco Place)where is the
Museo
delle Bell Arti di Venezia, paintings of most venetian
artists
are in this building.
i past
time known a disceple of Emilio Vedova, & in my
room
(computer room) at home there a CRAB painted by
former
friend Tenenti Giancarlo (the Vedova disceple),
how is
the Vedova paint? it's not realist & not abstractionism,
big
& tiny brushstroke on the canvas, the color he prefer
is
black & white, Emilio Vedova is an old man & a teacher
at the
Accademia delle Belle Arti of Venice,
if u
like send me a feedback & give u more 'bout Emilio Vedova,
in this
moment i remind that also Lawrence Ferlinghetti
is
involved in painting & some remind me Emilio Vedova
e.g. L.F.
"Untled" where a bridge is sketched a' la E. Vedova,
in my
opinion, u know sure that ferlinghetti is an aficionado
'bout
italian scene (sad on the florentine side, not venetian...)
&
if u see the book cover of "Scene italiane" there's a
ferlighetti's
paint "Morning Vision" that again vedovaesque feeling.
well,
for HST i refer to "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" in my
italian
translation (sandro veronesi did it, nice!) & there's
painting
by Ralph Steadman that has on a side a Grosz feeling
but on
the other side ink blot on the page
e.g. chapter 6.
is
Vedova style,
----
a brief
bio
VEDOVA
Emilio,
(Venezia
8 september 19919 - living)
Pittore.
Tra i maggiori esponenti dell'arte informale
italiana,
in contatto a Milano (1942-43) con Corrente
fu nel
dopoguerra tra i promotori del Fronte nuovo
delle
arti e nel 1952 fece parte del gruppo degli
Otto,
volgendosi a un espressionismo astratto forte
e
gestuale. OP:Sbarramento (1951), Venezia,
Fondazione
P. Guggenheim.
----
vale!
cari
saluti da
Rinaldo.
* a not competent beet *
* TUTTI GIU' PER TERRA *
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 19:18:59 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: the "chinese room"
amici
beats, we're put our own hands on a new media, joking sometime
in the
"chinese room" & this means mes'are cyberhermetic,
do u remember "One Flew Over The
Cuckoo's Nest"
by Ken
Kesey? a great moment at the start...
* the
beet *
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 10:31:37 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but
what the hell
>I
really only brought this up because I think John Sampas, as Jack Kerouac's
>literary
executor, also has the right to call the shots as he sees
>them,
and I think he must have his own private reasons, just as you
>have
yours in this "Parrot Fever" situation, for taking the actions that
>you
have objected to.
>
Dear
Levi, May 5, 1997
I did not have PRIVATE reasons for
withholding the PARROT FEVER
excerpt;
I had good LEGAL reasons.
I don't question that John Sampas
currently has the LEGAL RIGHT to
sell
off Kerouac's property, publish or withhold Kerouac's books, etc. I do
question
whether or not he has the MORAL RIGHT to break up Kerouac's archive
into
hundreds of pieces, destroying its scholarly value (as attested to by
such
experts as Matthew Bruccoli of the University of South Carolina, Tom
Staley
of U. of T., Austin, and Tony Bliss of Bancroft, Berkeley, among others).
Doesn't Mr. Sampas owe something to
the man who made him and his
family
wealthy? Doesn't he owe something to
Kerouac as a writer who
enriched
the entire world by what he wrote? I
don't mean OWE in a legal
sense
here. I mean the kind of debt we owe
the dead, when they have helped
us in
their lifetime.
For the nth time I say, if Mr. Sampas
truly intends to keep Jack
Kerouac's
papers together in a library, then why doesn't he tell us when he
will do
this, and what is keeping him from doing it NOW???
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 10:46:55 -0700
Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Comments:
To: apologies@cruzio.com
Rinaldo
Rasa wrote:
>
> as
gif image now i'm considering to limit my writing...
> .-
Beat
Community Genius Rinaldo. Spanking new channels email surprising
communication.
Possibilities to contemplate, play with, digest. Shit.
Have a
beutiful Monday.
leon
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 11:05:54 -0700
Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Comments:
To: "I swore I'd stay out of this but what the hell"@cruzio.com
Gerald
Nicosia wrote:
>
Dear Levi, May 5, 1997
>
> I did not have PRIVATE reasons for
withholding the PARROT FEVER
>
excerpt; I had good LEGAL reasons.
> I don't question that John Sampas
currently has the LEGAL RIGHT to
>
sell off Kerouac's property, publish or withhold Kerouac's books, etc.
Dear
Gerald,
I
continue to pay reluctant close attention to this very tasteless, rude
incessant
intrusion that we have been bombarded with lately. At the same
time I
am also grateful for the information that broadens my
understanding
of matters beat, writing, publishing, authoring, and life
at the
end of the twentieth century. Not just in the USA. I am
fascinated
by the energy, intelligence and devotion, seemingly to the
cause.
What cause, a cause that I haven't completely bought yet. Even
forgetting
the objections raised by Rod and others. Comes now Levi's
entry,
and what's this? Do I see a stumble? Do you consider this an
adequate
response? A legal right is sufficient reason for you and is
there a
total absence of need for moral reason(s) when it comes to your
actions?
Am I overlooking something here?
leon
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 14:28:13 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but
what the hell
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 5 May 1997 09:32:09 -0700
from
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Timothy,
what a wonderful idea! 100 messages x
250 or so a day. Just remember
to
reply directly to Rinaldo not to the list.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 11:29:51 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Shannon L. Stephens"
<shanstep@CS.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: mean words
In-Reply-To: <m0wORPh-000rVmC@gpnet.it>
I had a
nasty/spicy horrible fight yesterday.
Feel
small like Alice...without the sensation of falling down the hole.
So you
know what?
I want
a point in the literary direction of one of our beats deflecting
the
invasive harsh words that come along with dissolution.
-Shan
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 13:43:08 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Nice Words
Shannon
L. Stephens wrote:
>
> I
had a nasty/spicy horrible fight yesterday.
>
Feel small like Alice...without the sensation of falling down the hole.
> So
you know what?
> I
want a point in the literary direction of one of our beats deflecting
>
the invasive harsh words that come along with dissolution.
>
>
-Shan
Many a
day I have that Alice feeling myself.
Here
are some nice words. I haven't figured
out what they mean yet.
I've
been thinking about them quite a bit - perhaps too much.
I have
no reason to quibble with the absence of judgement placed in
Things
by the Absent Judge who builded the world without building it.
Without
building it.
-- Desolation Angels
Perhaps
someone or many someones can explain or interpret these words to
let me
sense better why they hit me so directly in my mind's eye.
david
rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 13:11:30 -500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Merry Pranksters Hit Chicago (and the
Web)
Thought
those of you who can't make it to Borders (I'm hoping
to be
there) would like to at least be there virtually. WXRT is
Chicago's
best music station BTW...
Nick
W-W
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
Online Be-in With WXRT And Ken Kesey
>
>
From: wxrt@MCS.COM (WXRT)
>
Date: 3 May 1997 00:09:26 -0500
>
Organization: MCSNet Services
>
Newsgroups: chi.media
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
Ken Kesey and more than a dozen Merry Pranksters are
>
crossing America in Kesey's 1947 International Harvester school bus en
>
route to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland to celebrate the
>
museums new exhibit, I Want To Take You Higher: The Psychedelic Era
>
1965-1969, opening on May 10, 1997. And
yes, they are making a stop in
>
Chicago.
>
>
The Chicago stop takes place on May 7 from noon-3pm at Borders Books at
>
Diversey and Clark in Chicago and you are invited to attend. If you can't
>
make it in person, drop by the XRT web site at http://www.wxrt.com and
>
check out the digital be-in. We'll be featuring QTVR's of Kesey's bus
>
"Furthur," downloadable movie clips, streaming audio segments,
photos,
>
and text comments collected during the event.
>
>
WXRT made its first foray into netcasting during the Democratic National
>
Convention as part of the Chicago96 web site, www.chicago96.org . That
>
web site received over a million hits during the course of the convention
>
week and was called the "...most fun convention site" by The New York
>
Times.
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 14:02:00 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Mitchell
<mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>
Subject: Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but
what the hell
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%97050514300998@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
I fail
to see the wonder. Rinaldo was
constantly risking an absurdity, I
admit. I too didn't want his protestant spree to go
on much longer, but at
least
his one or two liners were quick to read and delete. And, for me at
least,
his deluge was a funny wake-up call from the torrents of spring
being
spewed by others more Beat-List correct in their bop prosody, whose
word-counts
for a single day at times have far out-numbered Rinaldo's.
Still,
I respect this All-American, no doubt Beat-nik thing, of ganging up
on an
individual for breaking the rules of TeeVee decorum, not to mention
the
black beret and bongo individuality of all wearing the same Beat-List
T-shirt
while jamming Rinaldo. At moment's like this I'm glad Jack's dead.
// John
M.
>Timothy,
what a wonderful idea! 100 messages x
250 or so a day. Just
>remember
>to
reply directly to Rinaldo not to the list.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 12:06:54 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but
what the hell
I want
to point out that I didn't say we should do this to Rinaldo.
I said
that Rinaldo should be aware of what possibilities he opens his
e-mail
account up to when he does this.
At
02:02 PM 5/5/97 -0600, you wrote:
>I
fail to see the wonder. Rinaldo was
constantly risking an absurdity, I
>admit. I too didn't want his protestant spree to go
on much longer, but at
>least
his one or two liners were quick to read and delete. And, for me at
>least,
his deluge was a funny wake-up call from the torrents of spring
>being
spewed by others more Beat-List correct in their bop prosody, whose
>word-counts
for a single day at times have far out-numbered Rinaldo's.
>Still,
I respect this All-American, no doubt Beat-nik thing, of ganging up
>on
an individual for breaking the rules of TeeVee decorum, not to mention
>the
black beret and bongo individuality of all wearing the same Beat-List
>T-shirt
while jamming Rinaldo. At moment's like this I'm glad Jack's dead.
>//
John M.
>
>
>>Timothy,
what a wonderful idea! 100 messages x
250 or so a day. Just
>>remember
>>to
reply directly to Rinaldo not to the list.
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 15:07:28 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bruce Hartman <bwhartmanjr@INAME.COM>
Subject: Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but
what the hell
Beat
Friends. . .
Man oh man, we got a doozy on our
hands with this estate battle, huh? I
don't
know what to say, obviously we have to very rigid and divided camps,
and, as
best I can tell, only one is represented on the list.
At first I tended to side with
Nicosia, simply because he was the only one
talking,
but with the addition of Levi's nugget of info, I think I'm
beginning
to distance myself from both sides because it all sounds too
goddamned
complicated, and vendetta-based.
Whether or not this observation is
accurate, I'm going to make it: It
appears
that Nicosia wants to be granted the free reign to say anything he
damn
well pleases with the added benefit of being able to rescind and
adjust
his statements when he sees it necessary.
Case in point, Levi and
the
book excerpt. Why, Nicosia, didn't you
make it clear to Levi in the
beginning
why you asked him to remove the excerpt?
It seems obvious to me
why
Levi was befuddled by you. I can almost
bet that had you conducted
yourself
with a bit more tact, Levi would be one of your champions. And
because
of Levi's love of and dedication to all things Beat, never mind his
good
nature in all discussions I've seen him chime in on, I tend to align
myself
with him, trusting that his impressions of situations are accurate,
well-balanced,
and well-thought. (No pressure, Levi, really).
I think it comes down to this: Be
consistent, dammit!
Bruce
bwhartmanjr@iname.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 13:58:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gatt implications to intellectual
property....
I've
uncovered all my copyright files in an attempt to check this out - it
looks
to me like it only applies to work initially published overseas, not
in the
US, so it wouldn't therfore apply. All very strange. Sorry for the
diversion,
should have checked before posting.The whole thing was kept very
quiet
though.
There
are a number of huge web sites devoted to the works of authors in the
public
domain - Project Gutenberg is one of the main ones. They're mostly
university
funded or sponsored, and the contents are usually free to all who
wish to
browse and have web access. Works can be quite expensive to mount if
you
want them well designed and with hypertext links. The ALTX site is
another
place starting to put up pout of print works (they have one of
Ronald
Sukenick's books up already).
Nick
>Nick,
>
> First of all, thanks for your sig file
with its the regular reminder
>of
the proper approach to getting -
"don't let the bastards grind you down"
>...lots
better than my two Roman legionaire standbyes, "Nolo urinare contra
>ventum."
and "Semper ubi sub ubi."
>
> Reading about the confused situation
regarding the Kerouac estate,
>and
now seeing the intricacies of copyright renewal and the potential for
>misses,
has been an odd mix of feeling disheartened together with a sense of
>tension
and suspense as each new twist is unveiled.
>
> The digitization idea of Michael Stutz
is an excellent one and made
>me
wonder if there is much web access to digitized works of the size of the
>Kerouac
novels. The Gatt twist seems an incredibly important development in
>the
intellectual property area. What are the specific limitations to
>applying
this. Is it obscure enough that Gerald Nicosia or the Sampas family
>would
have missed the chance that it provided?
Gerald / Gerry?
>
> This seems to make it important to
have/build an index of what the
>copyright
renewal options are on the whole body of Beat lierature even
>though
we're ten to twenty years past the critical time period for renewal.
>Does
the publishing industry maintain such a resource? Anyway,I hope that
>you
and the otehrs involved in publishing in all its froma will continue to
>educate
us.
>
> Thanks Antoine
>
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in
Montreal
>
> "An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
> -- Norman Navrotsky
and Utah Phillips
>
>
**************************************************************************
*Nil
Carborundum Illegitimis*
It's
better to die on your feet than to live on your knees
Nick
Weir-Williams
Director,
Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
List
Manager, chipub listserv
ph: 847 491 8114
fax:
847 491 8150
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 16:09:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sean Elias <SPElias@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Merry Pranksters Hit Chicago (and
the Web)
In a
message dated 97-05-05 15:45:57 EDT, you write:
<<
Thought those of you who can't make it to
Borders (I'm hoping
to be there) would like to at least be there
virtually. WXRT is
Chicago's best music station BTW...
Nick W-W
>>
This
post smacks of an ad. BTW...XRT sux...try NUR or ZRD...And we have
problems
w/ Border's mgt. in this town.
beano
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 16:31:24 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jim Dimock <juancito@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Merry Pranksters Hit Chicago (and
the Web)
Any
idea which Pranksters are on the bus beside Kesey?
Jim
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 14:51:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Merry Pranksters Hit Chicago (and
the Web)
Oh well
excuse me for troubling you. Plus, the Borders in question is the
one
that actually has a union after the big fight for it, so it seems rather
pointless
boycotting that one. As for XRT, a matter of opinion I think.
Nick
>This
post smacks of an ad. BTW...XRT sux...try NUR or ZRD...And we have
>problems
w/ Border's mgt. in this town.
>
> beano
>
>
**************************************************************************
*Nil
Carborundum Illegitimis*
It's
better to die on your feet than to live on your knees
Nick
Weir-Williams
Director,
Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
List
Manager, chipub listserv
ph: 847 491 8114
fax:
847 491 8150
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 16:52:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sean Elias <SPElias@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Merry Pranksters Hit Chicago (and
the Web)
In a
message dated 97-05-05 16:44:26 EDT, you write:
<<
Oh well excuse me for troubling you. >>
I don't
believe I ever suggested a boycot, simply made a comment about
Border's
management in general.
As for
XRT, I believe, in taste, rather than opinion.
Semantics?
beano
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 14:01:31 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: merry pranksters hit windy city and
radio netville
seriously
now folks, fuck the $$$$ signs and billboards that bump the soggin
noggin,
it's the only way that I can get on the damned bus and I'ma gonna
git
thair one way or ta other, I'm just glad that the radio station
obviously
steeped in true hype is bringing the intrepid trip to us all here
on the
beat list as I am digging the Further web site connected to the shin
bone of
the radio site as you dudes and dudettes beep one another on the net
well guess
what children the bus is pulling away and as they say you are
either
on the bus or off the well beaten rug tug shug mug and don't paint
the
tires ya know you gotta go man never spank a yankster and shooby doo a
prankster
and download the road in the garter belt 30 weight wahoo uphill
race
towards big wheel dr. feelgood got the cure and you can keep the
deezeezeeeeeeee.
. . chicago blow me home blow me down blow me upriver and
sing me
beat daddy
xxxooo
s.a.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 14:17:35 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: nice words
acceptance
xxxooo
s.a.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 15:02:31 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bonnie Lee Howard
<howardb@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Various and Sundry--Mostly Pleas for
Help :-)
In-Reply-To: <970504232402_-1031159111@emout02.mail.aol.com>
On Sun,
4 May 1997, Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:
> In
a message dated 97-05-04 11:47:56 EDT, you write:
>
>
<< Wow. Been a long time. I first joined this list right after my father,
Don
> Carpenter, died in July 1995. >>
>
Bonnie:
> I remember your father sitting with
Braughtigan and me on Haight St.
>
Watching it build. He used to come down to the Tenderloin and talk to me. We
>
were in front of a movie theatre where I had my photo taken. The one on
>
Apocayspe Rose. I always wondered if he helped Braughtigan find a publisher.
> I
had published some of B's poems. Sorry for your loss.
>
Charles Plymell
Thanks.
And thanks for the memories, too. I don't know whether dad helped
R.B.
find a publisher or not. It's possible. After I found out about dad's
suicide,
the first person I contacted was Brautigan's daughter. She gave
me some
great advice (especially "do NOTHING for a year"). My father and
Brautigan
were very close for a long time, and both killed themselves
almost
exactly ten years apart. But under very different circumstances.
My
father was instrumental in helping Philip Whalen get some stuff
published.
You wanna hear a good story about Phil? It's kinda cute:
We
lived in Noe Valley in the early 60's, and Phil used to babysit for us
kids so
that my parents could go out. My sister and I were very little and
pretty
bratty. One night Phil was babysitting and had fallen asleep on the
couch.
My sister and I decided to play with something forbidden: fire. Uh
oh. We
lit a bunch of candles and were pouring the hot molten wax around,
just
generally making an awful mess. We got some wax on our hands, and
when we
pulled it off, it made sort of a model of our fingers. So we then
got the
bright idea of making a mold of Phil's face while he was snoring
peacefully
on the couch. Poor Whalen: I will never forget the look on his
face
when he awoke with two preschoolers standing over him, dribbling hot
wax
onto his face. Yikes! He could have gotten us into a whole lot of
trouble,
but he never did tell my parents what we did, and how stupid and
dangerous
it was. I will always love him for that :-)
Oh
dear: I am doing it again...getting all nahs-talgic. I'll stop now :-)
Bonnie
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 15:19:20 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s.a. griffin" <perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Various and Sundry--Mostly Pleas for
Help :-)
so
that's why the poor man became a monk!
xxxooo
s.a.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 20:00:32 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING
Moritz
Rossbach from Germany wrote:
>i
just cant understand why the rest of you stay silent... as i understand it
this is
about the future of the teaching of the wonderful literary history of
the
US. with all its light and shadow.
I've
been thinking a lot about the Kerouac Estate Battle and I've got to tell
you
I've been very troubled by the whole thing for a lot of reasons. I can
empathize
with Rinaldo's flooding the list (feel his pain, as it were) while
at the
same time being irked that I had to wade through all this junk he was
sending
my way and everybody else's.
It was
obvious to me and probably many others that he'd had it, he just
didn't
want to deal with the idea of a lawsuit involving the works of JK. He
was
shouting "Make Nice! Play Fair!" in his crazy Venetian broken English
way.
As I
settled into a fitful sleep last night I got to thinking too that this
is a
parallel with Nicosia and Jan. They've
been shouting from the rooftops,
flooding
the list as it were, trying to get the attention of anybody who
would
listen, trying to make a case people didn't want to hear. And if Jan
hadn't
been Kerouac's blood and Nicosia the recognized foremost authority on
Kerouac's
life nobody would have listened. But
some have listened, with
attending
press coverage, and the courts have listened saying in effect
"maybe
there is something to look at here".
Now
Rinaldo is a valued member of this list and while a lot of people fired
back at
him for the flooding episode I heard no calls to silence him or ban
him
from the Beat-L. Indeed, as a
community, we reached out to him.
I think
it's time for this community to reach out to Gerry Nicosia. Is there
really
any doubt why he's here? Is there
really any doubt what he's playing
for? You may think he's misguided, but is there
really any doubt as to his
sincerity?
The
people on the Beat-L make up a core constituency of Kerouac fans from all
over
the world. We're the people who are
dedicated enough and passionate
enough
to invest our time to keep abreast of situations and interact with one
another
on a regular basis. And if we don't
care enough about this
situation,
as complicated as it may be, who will?
Now I
don't know John Sampas. I wouldn't know
him if I fell over him. But
what if
Nicosia is right?
Gerry
Nicosia has been battling with few allies long enough. It can't be
easy
fighting alone and watching a good friend, the one you've been fighting
alongside
of all this while, die in the middle of it.
You
know, court cases are not an easy thing... believe me, I know, I've been
involved
in more than one. They weigh on you,
they wake you up in the middle
of the
night, they rob you of your time and of your life. And sometimes you
feel
like chucking it all and giving up simply because you don't want to
fight
any more.
What
would happen if Gerry Nicosia gave up this fight? And what would happen
if at
some point in the future someone intimate to the situation finally let
it be
known that the will was in fact forged and John Sampas knew it? How
would
we all feel then? What loss would we
feel? What injustice?
Gerry
Nicosia has been on this list for over a week now telling what he knows
and
making literally dozens of claims and assertions and all we've heard from
anybody
else is "we shouldn't be making a public spectacle" of the situation.
Any counterclaims made to Nicosia have been
side issues and personal beefs.
No one has made one credible argument that
what he is stating is not true.
And yet I haven't heard a lot of support
either.
I
really can't understand this. I thought
there were a lot of people on this
list
who have minds of their own and who are well versed on the details of
all
this. Why aren't we hearing from you?
Why are
so many people sitting on the fence regarding this keeping their
silence? What are you afraid of? What do you have invested that's going to
unravel
if you say what you know?
This
just doesn't make sense to me. As a
group we debate issues ad nauseam
about
things we can never affect. We get into
major arguments about whether
Burroughs
really meant to kill his wife, a thing none of us can ever prove.
We shout at each other about "Who is
Beat/Who is not Beat". We fight
over
the
"Gen X versus the Beats" every other month! We muster the troops and
fire
off e-mails and faxes and phone calls because a college student might
get
expelled for reading HOWL in public or a DJ most of us never heard of
gets
canned for playing it over the airwaves.
This Estate
Battle is something we might be able to have an impact on! This
is
something that is real and alive and will make a difference to Kerouac
fans
like all of us for decades to come.
There are people out there, I'm
convinced,
reading this note right now who know something about this case
that
might make a difference. Why won't you
come forward? Why won't you
talk
about what you know? Maybe you know
someone who knows something but you
don't
want to ask. What grips you so tightly
that keeps you silent?
What
shocks me is between all the Scholars and Intimates and Business
Associates
and Historians that I thought populated this list is the many who
seem so
unwilling to talk about what they know.
Everybody says, "I'm not
going
to get into it" or "Let's keep it private" or whatever.
I've
heard a few people say Jan and Gerry did make a difference with their
high
profile protests in the sense that John Sampas has stopped or at least
slowed
down on his selling off various artifacts. Everyone seems to agree
this is
a good thing, regardless of whether he has a legal right to do so or
regardless
of whether the will is legitimate.
To
those of you who were hurt in some fashion by Jan and Gerry making a noisy
stink
at your event I think you've got to look at the greater good here. It
sounds
to me like nobody was listening to them until they started screaming
bloody
murder and calling in the press and upsetting people. And if that is
what it
took for the original manuscript of On The Road and other items to
remain
out of the hands of private collectors where they would never again
see the
light of day then I would think you would have to agree that is a
good
thing.
And I'm
not necessarily even on Nicosia's side on this! I'm after the truth!
If you've got something that shows Gerry
Nicosia is only in it for the money
or the
glory, launch it. If you can show he's
lying about his motives, prove
it! And if you've got something that shows he's
all wet, then show me.
He's sure opened himself up for it. And if that is true I for one would
want to
know.
I think
it all boils down to this: Did Gerry
Nicosia and Jan Kerouac step on
a lot
of people's toes? Absolutely! They made a lot of noise and pissed a
lot of
people off, thereby making a lot of enemies as well. They also
apparently
succeeded somewhat in one of their aims which was to shine a light
on the
selling of irreplacable items and possibly slowing things down or
delaying
them.
One of
the things I've heard over and over here is "this case is
complicated". Yes it is complicated. Life is complicated, human affairs are
complicated
- Jack Kerouac himself showed us that over and over again in his
writing
which is one of the reasons we love him so.
But to say, "I don't
want to
deal with it because it's complicated" is selling yourself short and
just
plain lazy. To simply dismiss the issue
because you don't want to be
bothered
is not going to make it go away.
And if
not us, here on the Beat-L, then who?
Folks,
I'll tell ya, if I knew something that would support either Nicosia or
Sampas,
something that could make difference in this case and I did not come
forward
because I was concerned about my business relationships or my
professional
standing or whatever, I could not rest easy with that knowledge.
And if
I was keeping my silence because I'd had a disagreement or beef with
Nicosia
(or Sampas) that had very little to do with the issue at hand I would
be
ashamed of myself for letting my fellows and future generations down.
This situation, though complicated, is too
important to posterity to allow
petty
squabbles to get in the way. I would
have to come forward with what I
know.
How
will you sleep tonight?
Jerry
Cimino
Fog
City
"Candor prevents paranoia".
Allen Ginserg
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 19:17:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matthew S Sackmann
<msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>
Subject: Re: THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING
In-Reply-To: <970505200028_1685986959@emout15.mail.aol.com>
>
>
Why are so many people sitting on the fence regarding this keeping their
>
silence? What are you afraid of? What do you have invested that's going to
>
unravel if you say what you know?
the
very fact that i dont know anything is what is going to unravel if i
pop my
head in on this debate. That and the
fact that were in the middle
of
finals. Great letter though Jerry and
indeed if i had something
important
to say regarding the issue believe me i would say it. But as
for now
im just soaking up all emails about it.
I for one really
appreciate
the time and effort that Gerry is giving to convince us of the
truth. (his truth?) Im just waiting for this whole court case
thing
to blow down and im hoping that he remains on the list so we can ask
the
Great Kerouac biographer questions about the man himself and not his
estate.
and I'm
waiting for the American Boy to take off Beauty's clothes and get
on top
of her.
matt
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 20:23:28 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter
In a
message dated 97-05-04 17:02:29 EDT, you write:
<<
attila devasted venice italy in earlier times,
so i for my ancestor i beg his pardon..
>>
For my
ancestor, I beg your pardon.
By the
way, Attila The Hun was a beat.
enjoy,
Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 17:41:59 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING
Jerry,
You
letter very thoughtful and intense and to long to quote.
I speak
not as a Kerouac expert who would have some really factual
evidence
on this but as a fan of Kerouac's. Most
of us on the list
don't
have legally compelling facts on this.
I suspect that many of my
fellow
listmembers are silent primarily for that reason.
What it
really seems to come down to is if the will was forged. I doubt
if
anyone on the list has any information on that than we have already
heard. The other question would be whether
artifacts are being sold, is
that
legal, and is that proper. Some may
have information on items that
have
been sold. They may have views on
whether John Sampas has the
right
to sell these things.
As very
much an outsider on this issue it just seems like an awful mess
that I
can't do anything about. When Jan was
still alive and pressing
her
claim I waited to hear from some respected somewhat neutral voice
like
Allen Ginsberg. No word was
forthcoming. It's hard not to feel
sorry
for Jan, but it seems pretty obvious that Jan's problem stemmed
more
from Jack's actions than from anything the Sampas family had done.
It
would seem that Jack had the right to mess up his estate, disinherit
his
daughter, etc and that this is what he did.
I also thought I was
hearing
in this debate a sort of prejedice against the Sampas family
because
they were not as hip as Jan's partisans.
Maybe I'm wrong, but
it
seemed that way.
I
haven't heard anyone on the list question Nicosia's great contribution
to
Kerouac legacy. I don't think many
doubt his sincerity. But I don't
know
whether he is right and there is a tone which comes from his
statements
and Jo Grant's that puts me off. They see a huge conspiracy
of evil
folks out there and they are the sole possesors of truth. Maybe
Rod
Anastee and Phil Chaput are trying to hide a terrible wrong, but
Rod's
tone of "don't trust me, don't trust them, wait for the facts"
rings
truer for me. Levi's post also
suggested that Nicosia is tending
to make
enemies out of reasonable people who don't want to be in this
fight.
I've seen these estate fights before and they are damn ugly.
Everybody's
at least part wrong most of the time.
These are certainly
my own
reasons for the silence that you and Moritz find so suprising.
I just
want to read the books. I don't really
care who gets rich and
rather
doubt anyone will. What's legal may not
be fair. Life isn't
fair. I
am certain that more truth will emerge on this, and that even if
I am
tired of the argument, it is an important issue for the list to
deal
with.
Respectfully
leaving the field to the experts.
James
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 20:56:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rod Anstee <Nastees@AOL.COM>
Subject: LAST "ESTATE" POST/plus DR.
SAX!
First
of all, I was amazed & delighted today, but not totally
surprised,
of course, by Charley Plymell's great post on the
subject
of his LAST OF THE MOCCASINS vis-a-vis (not to say
"versus")
Kerouac's DOCTOR SAX. Obviously it demands a response
in the
next short while!
However,
I wanted to close the JK ESTATE chapter first. I am very
uncomfortable
with many of my posts last week on this subject,
including
my most recent one, late Saturday night. I stand behind
the
opinions that I have expressed recently, and the "facts" I
have
attempted to establish, but I feel that within the context
of the
Beat-List much of the discussion on this topic has become
entirely
too personal, and fully accept my part in this. On
Sunday,
I decided to take any further discussion of this issue
with
Gerry "Off-List." I'm not sure what I expected by way of a
response
(other than, of course, COMPLETE AND UTTER REFUTATION of
my
entire argument, complete with references to Nazi history, and
Gerry's
domestic situation), but what I rec'd was a letter,
quoting
part of my original, private correspondence to him, which
was
being simultaneously e-mailed BOTH to me AND to "jogrant" at the
BOOKZEN
website. I do not know Mr. Grant personally, but his postings,way
back at
the beginning of this thread, struck me right from the
start
as essentially being the Gerry Nicosia "take' on the
situation
without much in the way of balance or critical
analysis.
Anyway, I cannot say I was particularly surprised by this
latest
incidence of Gerry's inability to set any limits for
himself
-- it is simply that it amounts to the last straw, as far
as I'M
personally concerned.
I have
no way of knowing -- but I hope!? -- that the discussions
of the
past week may have convinced at least a few people out
there
in Beat-List Land that this whole issue is VERY complicated
and, at
its very root, it is a struggle over Money & Power --
nothing
new in that, of course! -- but over ENOUGH money & power
that
it's become a WAR. One of the first lawyers who ever called
me for
comments on this struggle very frankly likened it to the
absolute
worst, nastiest divorce case that he had ever
encountered
-- AND I DON'T EVEN REMEMBER WHICH SIDE HE WAS
WORKING
FOR! But the point is, we all know about the first
casualty
of any war.
As I
said before, I have no way of knowing whether or not
Gabrielle
Kerouac's will was a forged document. I also do not
consider
myself, at least, a partisan for either side of this
affair
-- indeed, I feel utterly safe in asserting that I am on
the
"Enemies List" tacked up in both of their clubhouses. I just
feel
that whatever TRUTH & JUSTICE may have been there at one
point,
in some quasi-objective sense, is no longer obtainable,
and
probably no longer exists, legally or morally. And certainly
the
characters fighting things out right now are, to my mind,
entirely
degraded and transparent as to their motivations and
goals.
No heros. No villains. Each side as bad as the other, only
worse. No matter what anybody tells you about the
situation,
they
will have reasons for saying what they tell you, and reasons
for
leaving out the things they leave out. My mantra.
I know
that as soon as this is posted, Gerry will write and post
a
response, COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY REFUTING everything I've said.
I've
only just really come to realize and accept that I can't
help
that. No end, no way out.
Finally,
someone asked earlier how to go about doing the kind of
private
research you might want to do in order to form a properly
informed
opinion on this issue. I make no grandiose claims, but
for
anyone interested, I have about 3 or 4 binders full of
original
Gerry Nicosia letters that might help anyone who's still
interested
to form an informed opinion of at least his side of
the
equation. My archive's still open to the public, too! No permissions
required!
JUST
KIDDING, Gerry! Why don't we just leave that for our kids' lawyers to
fight
over, OK? I expect there'll still be lawyers then.
CHEERS.
Rod Anstee
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 18:53:45 -0700
Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re. Movie Star!??
inaldo
Rasa wrote:
>
>
leon,
>
are u a star of a movie?
>
> .-
Hi
Rinaldo,
I waited
for awhile before answering because I am not sure how you mean
the
question. I know you can't be serious.
If life
is a movie, then I would say that my role is to be an extra on
the
stage with a view. No stardom. Close to some pretty heavy action and
to a
few of the star movers and shakers. I learned to appreciate a lot
the
roles assigned to me, my destiny, and am quite grateful that I was
not
burdened with star roles. I can be and I can do as I choose without
worry
that strangers will be uplifted by incorrect interpretations of
me, or
be let down by my real actions. Anonymity allows me to keep
experiencing
life with freshness. I have seen deadly effects of fame. It
is not
easy to deal with. The blessings are overwhelming. Not far from
the surface
all kinds of jealousies teem and thrive and bring damage to
the
real lives of real people. Even the friends and descendants get
curses
mixed in with the blessings they inherited from the famous.
Usually
the stars earned the blessings, do not deserve the curses. I am
glad
the stars make the world brighter for me also. I am not so sure how
well I
could cope with stardom. To have a lot of influence is a
superhuman
responsibility. The warmth of interaction, even not face to
face,
as is ours here, is strengthening, the lights that we shine over
vast
crowds can leave us in vast cold darkness. Do you think all this is
just
sour grapes?
If your
question is about something that I am missing, please explain it
to me.
I will appreciate that.
BTW it
is very clear that my response to your cornix messages, meant
compliments,
not to be offensive, RIGHT? Just to make sure, the word
"shit"
at the end may have been a poor choice. I just meant to say
that's
what we do with everything that we take in, we digest, and we
shit
out the rest. I was not offended by your mail. On the contrary, I
thought
it was a very effective, humorous, interesting, innovative way
to
communicate to the list people. You got across to us just how
intensely
you
felt,
you made us uneasy a bit and got us to pay serious attention with
lightning
quick stabs wrapped in gentle humor and kindness. I do believe
you
have a genius for
communicating
the way that you do. I am glad you think enough about us
to give
of yourself as much as you do.
Peace
friend
Leon
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 19:09:42 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: LAST "ESTATE" POST/plus
DR. SAX!
whatever TRUTH & JUSTICE may have been
there at one
>point,
in some quasi-objective sense, is no longer obtainable,
>and
probably no longer exists, legally or morally. And certainly
>the
characters fighting things out right now are, to my mind,
>entirely
degraded and transparent as to their motivations and
>goals.
No heros. No villains. Each side as bad as the other, only
>worse.
>
The above words of Mr. Anstee are so
utterly self-righteous that I
wonder
where he's been spending his free time.
Not content with belittling the
efforts of Jan Kerouac, and myself,
to
preserve the Jack Kerouac archive, he now attempts to play God, and to
tell us
that Truth and Justice no longer exist, so don't even try to attain
them,
gang, let's all just give up and let the world go to hell!
Nothing is right, nothing is wrong,
and Mr. Anstee created the world
in 7
days.
There is a right and a wrong in this
world, most of the time, and
I've
put forth my arguments about why I think preserving the Jack Kerouac
archive
in a library is the right thing to do, giving Paul Blake, Jr., a
share
of the Kerouac estate is the right thing to do, and letting Jan
Kerouac
have a decent burial (not on top of her grandmother to save two
slots
in the Kerouac family plot for the Sampas family) is the right thing
to do.
I'm still waiting for Mr. Anstee, Mr.
Chaput, and whatever other
Sampas
supporters lurk hereabouts to come out and tell me 1) why it is
better
for John Sampas to sell off the Kerouac archive to dealers and
collectors
for maximum profits; why it is better that the actual Kerouac
blood
family get no money from his estate so that all the money can go to
the
Sampases (Jan never got a penny from his estate, she got all her money
through
the federal copyright law, and Paul Blake, Jr. got nothing at all);
3) why
it is better for John Sampas to control Kerouac scholarship, the
Kerouac
burial plot, and all other things Kerouacian when there are still
living
Kerouac's around.
In rhetoric they call Mr. Anstee's and
Mr. Chaput's technique
"argument
ad hominum"--in Latin that means "against the man." When you
don't
have any good arguments to put forth, you call the other guy
"degraded"
or "power-mad" or whatever.
I'm still waiting for some real
argument
on their part.
As for sending Joe Grant a piece of his
email to me, I apologize,
Rod,
but I've been blasted by so many of you guys so quickly that I
originally
thought your earlier letter to me was from the CUNY BEAT LIST and
that
Joe had already seen the whole text, so it was no big deal letting him
see the
part I was responding to. You had
asserted that Joe was brainwashed
by me,
so I figured I might as well give you an equal chance (just kidding).
The truth is I am getting a little
punchy from being pinned down in
this
ambush. I've answered probably over 100
questions in 10 days, while my
opponents
answer nothing. Sampas won't tell us
what he's sold, Anstee won't
tell us
why he won't publish his essay called "1400 dots" (or even let us
glimpse
it here) about how Ann Charters censored the SELECTED LETTERS at
Sampas's
behest, and Chaput won't say why I should donate money to a
committee
that's pulled every dirty trick in the book to keep me out of
Lowell--and
finally had the financial plug pulled on them by the National
Park
Service for their questionable dealings.
OK, fellas, you've had your crack at
me. I'll answer more of your
questions
after you answer a few of mine.
As for Rod revealing the hundreds
(thousands?) of documents I kindly
provided
him over the past 13 years, he can do what he wishes with them,
though
I hope he'll put them in a library and not auction them off to
collectors
and dealers, like his hero. I have
nothing to hide, and all said
and
done will probably lose money on Jack Kerouac till the day I die.
My wife isn't too happy about that
fact, but I care deeply about the
man and
his work, what he stood for, the spirituality he boosted in this
country
at a time when materialism had just about won the day, and the gift
of
truth he gave us all.
Jan cared about that too, and I'll go
the distance for that lady.
At
least I'm doing my best.
Adios, guys! As for Mr. Sampas, I'm still here, ready and waiting,
to
assist you in getting the Kerouac archive into a library.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 21:08:10 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Looking For Jack: The Literary
Influences of Jack Kerouac
Rinaldo
Rasa wrote:
>
>
are u a horse-race?
YES
!!!!! Make your bets now ... i'll hold
the money. :)
david
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 23:32:22 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Dr. Sax vs. Last of the Moccasins
Pamela
Beach Plymell wrote:
>
>
Yes, I have LAST OF THE MOCCASINS here, red cover, $3 on the back...I haven't
>
read LAST since about 1975. (SAX I re-read pretty regularly.)
I know
that someone may have asked this before but after an unsuccessful
attempt
to locate the Last of the Moccasins in a bookstore, I was
wondering
if it is still in print, and can it be ordered from any
bookstore?
Diane
Carter
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 22:58:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING
In-Reply-To:
<970505200028_1685986959@emout15.mail.aol.com>
On Mon,
5 May 1997, Jerry Cimino wrote:
>
I've been thinking a lot about the Kerouac Estate Battle and I've got to tell
>
you I've been very troubled by the whole thing for a lot of reasons.
[snip]
> I
think it's time for this community to reach out to Gerry Nicosia. Is there
>
really any doubt why he's here? Is
there really any doubt what he's playing
>
for? You may think he's misguided, but
is there really any doubt as to his
>
sincerity?
[snip]
>
What would happen if Gerry Nicosia gave up this fight?
[snip]
> No one has made one credible argument that
what he is stating is not true.
> And yet I haven't heard a lot of support
either.
[snip]
> I
really can't understand this.
[snip]
>
And I'm not necessarily even on Nicosia's side on this! I'm after the truth!
[snip]
>
And if not us, here on the Beat-L, then who?
Jerry--
thanks for the post that summed up what I've been thinking to a T.
While
I've been real interested in what's been going on, I haven't wanted to
get in
the middle of it or take sides even because it's not my place to --
all I
know about it is from these messages, and I was there at NYU when
Gerry
and Jan got kicked out, I was real confused -- there's Ann Charters
and
Ginsberg etc. just sitting there looking on while Kerouac's daughter &
biographer's
being taken out by police, what's going on? -- I'm actually
really
sick of all the bickering but it would be nice to see some kind of
resolution.
It could be just phantoms of my imagining but I get the feeling
that
people who know a good deal about this, or at least people who _should_
know,
are not saying anything. Maybe with good reason -- making accusations
in a
public, archived forum is never a popular move -- but I have no idea
what's
"really" going on in this Estate battle (besides the messages already
posted
to this list), and now that it's been dragged this far out into the
open there
won't be peace until there is a complete public resolution of the
situation.
> "Candor prevents
paranoia".
Oh, and
the whole time I was reading your post, this was the quote that kept
popping
into my head.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 23:13:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Various and Sundry--Mostly Pleas for
Help :-)
Bonni:
Good advice from B's daughter to wait a
year.
Delightful
story about Phil Whalen He might have
thought you were casting
him as
a wax role modeloo. I still have his Blake book wth his name signed
neatly
in it. I remember his cottage maybe Noe Valley with a little flower
garden
in front. I was have rather a bad day on Sandoz Lysergic Acid when I
went to
see him. He put his hand around the back of my neck and made me look
at a
flower until I calmed down.
C.
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 22:12:52 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING
Michael
Stutz wrote:
>
> On
Mon, 5 May 1997, Jerry Cimino wrote:
>
>
> I've been thinking a lot about the Kerouac Estate Battle and I've got to
tell
>
> you I've been very troubled by the whole thing for a lot of reasons.
>
[snip]
>
> I think it's time for this community to reach out to Gerry Nicosia. Is
there
>
> really any doubt why he's here? Is
there really any doubt what he's playing
>
> for? You may think he's misguided,
but is there really any doubt as to his
>
> sincerity?
>
[snip]
>
> What would happen if Gerry Nicosia gave up this fight?
>
[snip]
>
> No one has made one credible
argument that what he is stating is not true.
>
> And yet I haven't heard a lot of
support either.
>
[snip]
>
> I really can't understand this.
>
[snip]
>
> And I'm not necessarily even on Nicosia's side on this! I'm after the
truth!
>
[snip]
>
> And if not us, here on the Beat-L, then who?
>
>
Jerry-- thanks for the post that summed up what I've been thinking to a T.
>
While I've been real interested in what's been going on, I haven't wanted to
>
get in the middle of it or take sides even because it's not my place to --
>
all I know about it is from these messages, and I was there at NYU when
>
Gerry and Jan got kicked out, I was real confused -- there's Ann Charters
>
and Ginsberg etc. just sitting there looking on while Kerouac's daughter &
> biographer's
being taken out by police, what's going on? -- I'm actually
>
really sick of all the bickering but it would be nice to see some kind of
>
resolution. It could be just phantoms of my imagining but I get the feeling
>
that people who know a good deal about this, or at least people who _should_
>
know, are not saying anything. Maybe with good reason -- making accusations
> in
a public, archived forum is never a popular move -- but I have no idea
>
what's "really" going on in this Estate battle (besides the messages
already
>
posted to this list), and now that it's been dragged this far out into the
>
open there won't be peace until there is a complete public resolution of the
>
situation.
>
>
> "Candor
prevents paranoia".
>
Oh, and the whole time I was reading your post, this was the quote that kept
>
popping into my head.
I
seriously doubt that this issue will EVER be RESOLVED. Perhaps
history
will provide some resolution but my guess is that the divisions
created
during a legal dispute concerning Kerouac's Things may spillover
into
divisions over scholarship (if they haven't already). My
perception
of this thread is that I've learned a lot that I didn't know
up to
this point, but i seriously doubt that i am going to learn much
more. i applaud the notion of sending it
backchannel. i might have
been
too subtle earlier but my Nice Words post was about this
controversy. Nothing against any of the major or minor
characters.
david
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 20:17:03 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Steve Smith a.k.a. Whiskey Wordsmith"
<psu06729@ODIN.CC.PDX.EDU>
Subject: Re: LAST "ESTATE" POST/plus
DR. SAX!
In-Reply-To:
<199705060209.TAA23409@germany.it.earthlink.net>
Dear
Mr. Nicosia,
yeah, i
could just do the gerry or the gerald--but i guess i come from
the old
school where guys you don't know are Mistered; lost art, i think.
of
course the other reason i mister you is that i regard your bio of jk
one of
the finest critical biographies i have ever had the pelasure to
read. i go back to it so often that it is now in
the hallowed halls of
the
most-dog-eared books on my shelf; it is not only informative and
sensitive
and well-researched, it is also full of soul--obviously
kerouac's,
but also your own.
i just
want to say that i have been reading your posts quite avidly--and
those
from the Other Camp as well.
if tone
and substance mean anything anymore, and i steadfastly think that
they
do, your willingness to come on beat-l and talk and answer and tell
is
worthy of many kudos. the tone of the
posts that bomb you, that
pretend
to preseent a balanced view of oppositon to your
position--these
posts are vitriolic and angry and snotty--they come
up
smelling anything but like a rose, from guys lobbing grenades your
way. you came on list and said (pretty much) that
anything goes...you
were
and are willing to talk and answer... good for you--and good for us.
i, for
one, have enjoyed--and been educated--by your being here. i don't
quite
yet know where i stand on the jk estate matter...but your reasoned
(and
quite astute and fair) position is quite persuasive.
that
does not mean i will not listen to the other side--
but the
nub of the whole thing seems to be that you favor one jk archive
and
keeping the goods together... this is an honorable position.
the
folk who have been stridently whacking at you are a bit too snippy and
acidic
(yes, rhetoric does
include
notions of ethos and pathos and logos!) for this pair of eyes and
ears.
they may flog their version of the logos, but....they seem much
happier
with snide asides and non sequitors--they zero in on the nicosia
as
executor angle--and this gets way in to straw-man and such fallacies.
i would
like both sides to keep talking... but, please, no more cheap
shots
from what is starting to look like the sampas-camp peanut gallery.
thanks--
best,
steve
smith
english
dept
portland
state university
portland,
oregon
On Mon,
5 May 1997, Gerald Nicosia wrote:
> whatever TRUTH & JUSTICE may have been
there at one
>
>point, in some quasi-objective sense, is no longer obtainable,
>
>and probably no longer exists, legally or morally. And certainly
>
>the characters fighting things out right now are, to my mind,
>
>entirely degraded and transparent as to their motivations and
>
>goals. No heros. No villains. Each side as bad as the other, only
>
>worse.
>
>
>
> The above words of Mr. Anstee are so
utterly self-righteous that I
>
wonder where he's been spending his free time.
> Not content with belittling the
efforts of Jan Kerouac, and myself,
> to
preserve the Jack Kerouac archive, he now attempts to play God, and to
>
tell us that Truth and Justice no longer exist, so don't even try to attain
>
them, gang, let's all just give up and let the world go to hell!
> Nothing is right, nothing is wrong,
and Mr. Anstee created the world
> in
7 days.
> There is a right and a wrong in this
world, most of the time, and
>
I've put forth my arguments about why I think preserving the Jack Kerouac
>
archive in a library is the right thing to do, giving Paul Blake, Jr., a
>
share of the Kerouac estate is the right thing to do, and letting Jan
>
Kerouac have a decent burial (not on top of her grandmother to save two
>
slots in the Kerouac family plot for the Sampas family) is the right thing
> to
do.
> I'm still waiting for Mr. Anstee, Mr.
Chaput, and whatever other
>
Sampas supporters lurk hereabouts to come out and tell me 1) why it is
>
better for John Sampas to sell off the Kerouac archive to dealers and
>
collectors for maximum profits; why it is better that the actual Kerouac
>
blood family get no money from his estate so that all the money can go to
>
the Sampases (Jan never got a penny from his estate, she got all her money
>
through the federal copyright law, and Paul Blake, Jr. got nothing at all);
> 3)
why it is better for John Sampas to control Kerouac scholarship, the
>
Kerouac burial plot, and all other things Kerouacian when there are still
>
living Kerouac's around.
> In rhetoric they call Mr. Anstee's
and Mr. Chaput's technique
>
"argument ad hominum"--in Latin that means "against the
man." When you
>
don't have any good arguments to put forth, you call the other guy
>
"degraded" or "power-mad" or whatever. I'm still waiting for some real
>
argument on their part.
>
> As for sending Joe Grant a piece of
his email to me, I apologize,
>
Rod, but I've been blasted by so many of you guys so quickly that I
>
originally thought your earlier letter to me was from the CUNY BEAT LIST and
>
that Joe had already seen the whole text, so it was no big deal letting him
>
see the part I was responding to. You
had asserted that Joe was brainwashed
> by
me, so I figured I might as well give you an equal chance (just kidding).
>
> The truth is I am getting a little
punchy from being pinned down in
>
this ambush. I've answered probably
over 100 questions in 10 days, while my
>
opponents answer nothing. Sampas won't
tell us what he's sold, Anstee won't
>
tell us why he won't publish his essay called "1400 dots" (or even
let us
>
glimpse it here) about how Ann Charters censored the SELECTED LETTERS at
>
Sampas's behest, and Chaput won't say why I should donate money to a
>
committee that's pulled every dirty trick in the book to keep me out of
>
Lowell--and finally had the financial plug pulled on them by the National
>
Park Service for their questionable dealings.
> OK, fellas, you've had your crack at
me. I'll answer more of your
>
questions after you answer a few of mine.
> As for Rod revealing the hundreds
(thousands?) of documents I kindly
>
provided him over the past 13 years, he can do what he wishes with them,
>
though I hope he'll put them in a library and not auction them off to
>
collectors and dealers, like his hero.
I have nothing to hide, and all said
>
and done will probably lose money on Jack Kerouac till the day I die.
> My wife isn't too happy about that
fact, but I care deeply about the
>
man and his work, what he stood for, the spirituality he boosted in this
>
country at a time when materialism had just about won the day, and the gift
> of
truth he gave us all.
> Jan cared about that too, and I'll go
the distance for that lady.
> At
least I'm doing my best.
> Adios, guys! As for Mr. Sampas, I'm still here, ready and
waiting,
> to
assist you in getting the Kerouac archive into a library.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 23:22:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING
I don't
know anything about the issue, and I'm known for saying what I feel.
I think
you make a good appeal. When it plays out, we'll see the Johnsons and
the
Shits.
C.
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 23:37:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dr. Sax vs. Last of the Moccasins
The
City Lights edition (the one in the post) is out of print. The new
edition
is available through Waterrow (waterrow@aol.com).
Pam
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 21:08:59 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Dr. Sax vs. Last of the Moccasins
Or
through your favorite local bookseller.
But you might have to make
them
look hard. It wasn't showing on the
store's computer but it was in
the
most recent print "Books in Print" when I ordered it today.
James
The new
>
edition is available through Waterrow (waterrow@aol.com).
>
Pam Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 00:14:20 +0000
Reply-To: morocco@walrus.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance
<morocco@WALRUS.COM>
Subject: Elegiac Feelings
Comments:
cc: BOHEMIAN@maelstrom.stjohns.edu
The
following poem is part of a web poem which can be found at:
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/bl/elegiac.html
This
was composed last year.
--------------------
backyard
in brooklyn
by
Gregory Severance
oooh
oooh
brooklyn
sirens squint
against
what brilliance of tree on Flatbush Avenue
history
murmuring
sirens
wailing wailing sirens sirens wailing
steel
pistols resting on a pillow
owning
nature the buildings
sweet
lonely fallen on RR track
would
deny loveliness in dream moment
botanical
soundings clucking asked me
who
sees your bodies
this
dream in a circle
loveliness
in mortal form
I
travelled the entire length of every
kindness
past
staggering
from levee to levee
always
denying inspired roads
Kesey's
in Oregon the war the war
is
reborn
cherry
bare breasted woman statue
wept
with tears without tears
I
sobbed my sins
to La
Guardia birds unfamiliar sirens wailing
who
cringes during discourse of spirit
the
great in heart horrible instead
peace
and acceptance
a
phantom skeleton
meaty
baby
dream
moment
military
tyranny arms
murmuring
history
world
is released
green
with leaves
from
flesh forms
laden
with white blossoms
prayers
completed the breasts
I
pursued delusion consciously
some
gathering on every road the state of kansas pavements galore
I lay
trembling
war-fear
ended
* + * +
* + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + *
Gregory
Severance
morocco@walrus.com
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"Leaving
Texas, fourth day of July."
--
Grateful Dead ["Jack Straw"]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"...
a gallon of desperate whiskey a day it took
ye to
look that America in its disembodied eye"
--
Gregory Corso ["Elegiac Feelings American"]
* + * +
* + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + *
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 21:01:04 -0700
Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Levi's Question
Dear
Gerald,
It well
may be that it is just wonderful that you are fighting the war
that
you do. It seems that everyone is acknowledging at least that we
all are
already beneficiaries of the way you have forced hands to give
up more
to the public. I don't doubt your sincerity and your belief in
your
cause. If the will was forged I would support you as much as I
could
to go on and to win the case. I do not wish to add disheartening
burdens
to your shoulders.
BTW, I
do not concur with some opinions that have been expressed, that
the
courts have the power to determine the truth. I have had lots of
court
experience on various drug related charges, have dealt with quite
a few
attorneys. Only one of them insisted that he only wanted to know
the
truth. Let's say he didn't want to be told that what he was given to
present
was not the truth. He had to be very stupid to believe the lies
my
witnesses were telling him. Every other lawyer that I had was
insisting
that you have to fight fire with fire and the other side lies,
forcing
us to, that you have to appear believable to win and to not even
hint at
the truth if it doesn't appear believable to the limited rules
of evidence
of the judge or jury.
What is
believable to judges and juries has to do more with how they
interpret
artificially recreated situations, that often exaggerate minor
matters
and rule out of court factors that are essential to understand
what
was really going on. Some doubts may never clear up, even though
the
courts are forced to make up their minds one way or another. Should
the
courts not find sufficient evidence for forgery, from having read
carefully
your material and your opponents' material, I would still
believe
there is a possibility that the courts did not uncover the
truth.
I still
have some nagging questions though about whether your opponents
are
given to do things that you would not. I asked you this morning to
clarify
your answer to Levi's question. Since you didn't answer, I went
back
over it to see if can tell better what you said. The only
conclusion
that I can come to is that you are suggesting that Levi
wanted
you to release material to the public, but that you couldn't do
it for
legal reasons. Are you saying that Levi wanted you to do
something
illegal, that you explained to him that you couldn't do it
because
it was illegal, and that he still wanted you to do it? I just
don't
believe that of Levi.
Unless
you explain it better to me, this is the conclusion that I am
forced
to live with. And if that is the case then I must conclude that
you are
likely yourself to do things that are no more right than what
you
tell us to expect from your opponents.
I hope
that you will show me where I am wrong here. I also realize that
there
may be other reasons that make it difficult for you to explain
further.
There may also be quite sound legal reasons that prevent your
opponents
from entering any discussion before the case is over. I will
try to
keep an open mind. I do not feel that the universe owes me
explanations
and revelations about anyone's shortcomings or mistakes.
Regardless
of what the outcome might be, I admire your courage,
perseverance,
and sincere efforts to educate us to your perspective. I
have
also enjoyed your passionate style of advocacy. Thanks for your
readable,
enlightening posts, even if I wish there was less personal
acrimony
expressed. Any worthy cause would be very lucky to have you as
an
advocate.
leon
This
morning's post:
> I
continue to pay reluctant close attention to this very tasteless, rude
>
incessant intrusion that we have been bombarded with lately. At the same
>
time I am also grateful for the information that broadens my
>
understanding of matters beat, writing, publishing, authoring, and life
> at
the end of the twentieth century. Not just in the USA. I am
>
fascinated by the energy, intelligence and devotion, seemingly to the
>
cause. What cause, a cause that I haven't completely bought yet. Even
>
forgetting the objections raised by Rod and others. Comes now Levi's
>
entry, and what's this? Do I see a stumble? Do you consider this an
>
adequate response? A legal right is sufficient reason for you and is
> there
a total absence of need for moral reason(s) when it comes to your
>
actions? Am I overlooking something here?
>
leon
>
> .-
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 21:28:05 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Weinberg's corrections
To
followers of the Beat List Kerouac Estate battles:
Mr.
Weinberg asks for the following corrections:
1) he
works out of Sudbury, Mass, not Fitchburg
2)
Richard Marcel did purchase Kerouac items.
My clumsy prose (excuse me)
made it
sound as if he were one of the dealers who refused to buy any
because
the prices were too high. There were
definitely dealers who claimed
the
latter, like Peter Howard of Serendipity in Berkeley.
3) Mr. Weinberg only revealed to me the names
of customers who had
consented
to have their names made public. He
wants it known that he
respects
the privacy of his customers if they require privacy.
4) Mr.
Weinberg completed the sale of BOOK OF DREAMS to a private collector.
The
sale of MEXICO CITY BLUES to a private collector was almost complete
when
Mr. Sampas decided to raise the price.
To the best of Mr. Weinberg's
knowledge,
the collector then apparently bought the MCB notebooks directly
from
Mr. Sampas so that Mr. Weinberg's commission would not have to be paid,
thus lowering
the overall price.
5) Mr. Weinberg was not fired. He states that he quit working for Mr.
Sampas
because the job was becoming too stressful.
As reasons for this
problem,
he cites Mr. Sampas continually raising the price of Kerouac items
(thus
making it difficult for Mr. Weinberg to keep on good terms with his
clients)
and Mr. Sampas pulling out of a deal with the Bancroft Library in
Berkeley
that he (Mr. Weinberg) had worked on for several months. Mr.
Weinberg
apparently had the Bancroft ready to come across with a million
dollars
for the entire Kerouac archive in 1991, but at some point late in
the
negotiations, Mr. Sampas ceased cooperating.
I find this last tidbit of literary
history fascinating, since Jan
Kerouac
later attempted to get her father's archive into the very same
library,
not knowing that Jeffrey Weinberg had tried to talk Mr. Sampas into
placing
it there three years earlier. Jan liked
the "feel" of the
Bancroft--marble
and old wood and beautiful glass display cases--and she
especially
liked librarian Tony Bliss, who with his balding head, moustache,
round
spectacles, and gentle voice was like a father figure to her (though
he
looked nothing like Jack!).
I apologize for these errors. My only excuse is having had to pour
out ten
thousand words on this subject in ten days, which did not always
give me
time to resort to years of notes in literally hundreds of
folders--but
to rely on that most fallible of allies, one's memory.
There was only one Memory Babe, folks,
and we know that even HE got
it
wrong once in a while.
I would like to add, again, that I
hold no grudge against Mr.
Weinberg. Whenever I get too high and mighty in my
artistic morality, my
wife,
who is a businessperson, reminds me that it is the job of
businesspeople
to make money for their clients. What
impresses me now is
the
sincerity of Mr. Weinberg in wishing to end the piecemeal selling-off of
Kerouac
items, and to clear a way for bigger and better Kerouac scholarship
in the
future.
No one is asking Mr. Sampas (or Mr.
Nicosia) (or Mr. or Ms. Anyone)
to stop
making money. Those of us who care
about Kerouac scholarship are
simply
asking him to trade off a part of those windfall profits in the
interests
of posterity. Too much to ask?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 21:28:33 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING
Mr.
Jerry Cimino's four page soliloquy made me feel that the last ten days
of
pouring out my heart here, and taking flak from every direction, was
worth
it to have touched one person that deeply.
Mr.
Cimino understands what is going on.
Jan Kerouac was not trying to make
a
million dollars when she knew she had months, or at most a few more years,
to
live. Gerald Nicosia is not trying to run the world; he'd like to get
back to
his book on the healing of Vietnam veterans, called HOME TO WAR, and
also
get back to his family and the demands of his two-year-old daughter Wu
Ji. No one is asking to crucify John Sampas.
We're
asking for what should have been done years ago: the permanent
preservation
and scholarly access to Jack Kerouac's magnificent literary
archive,
the life's work of a true American literary genius.
And
maybe a little justice for the Kerouac family.
Mr.
Cimino knows that is not such a terrible thing. And he knows that Jan
Kerouac
and I asked quietly at first, with no results, so our voices kept
rising. Maybe they rose too loud. And maybe it's time to lower them again.
But the
BIG QUESTION IS: Will they EVER be
heard???