beat list 1997

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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 07:00:12 -0700

Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Comments: To: Kesey/Cassady@cruzio.com

Cosmic Baseball Association wrote:

Thank you Andrew for shedding some light upon these vaguely visible

shadows in the folds of old memories. The chronology sounds quite

plausible. I guess memory is not that tricky. It is quite possible that

a book published several months earlier was considered "just out" even

"by the fastest man on earth". I guess we may all be correct here.

Just because I didn't know about the book at first, doesn't mean it had

not been published yet. Neal first heard of Kesey from his close friend

Bradley who was a student at Stanford at the time, and editor of a

student poetry publication there. He met Bradley when he started to

visit Anne Marie weekends in her Palo Alto apartment. Bradley would have

been likely to know about Kesey's book publication and writing. What I

remember most vividly are Bradley's enthusiasm about Kesey's Perry Lane

parties. I do recall that Neal's first interest in Kesey was about

crashing those parties. He was also amazed at the uncanny replication of

the earlier Columbia literary student pioneering lifestyle innovations

experience; the progression from Marijuana to LSD, the close knit

friendships, and most of all the parties near to Anne Marie's weekend

hideaway pad. Well maybe not quite hideaway. When I see Anne I will ask

her what she can add here.

Bits and pieces of the legendary stories of Neal could have been grafted

upon RPM with or without conscious knoledge by Kesey, even if he didn't

know him yet at the time face to face.

Leon

Cosmic Baseball Association wrote:

> Leon,

> James Stauffer has already cautioned us about secondary sources, but the way

> Jay Stevens in Storming Heaven dates these events is that Kesey moves to

> Perry Lane in the fall of 1958 and in mid-summer 1960 he starts working at

> the Veterans Hosp. He starts writing Cuckoo's Nest around September 1960

> and finishes it in June 1961. The book is published in Feb. 1962 and he

> meets Cassady during the summer of 1962.

> However, I note that Kesey has already started hanging out in North Beach by

> 1960 so it's possible he's heard about Cassady, he certainly was hip to the

> beats. (Stevens p.224-225).

> I can't find my copy of Plummer's Holy Goof to check his chronology, (I

> think it's out on a date with Yardley's Ring Lardner biography which I'm

> also trying to find right now. Personally I don't think those two should be

> dating).

> But Leon, please keep probing and posting the memory.

> Regards,

> Andrew Lampert

> cosmic@clark.net

> .-

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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 08:20:42 -0600

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>

Organization: Calgary Free-Net

Subject: kesey & flicks

In-Reply-To: <199705071407.HAA27441@netcom.netcom.com>

levi & co

havent heard anything about the kesey forman battle over cockoos nest

movie. are the letters published? where would i look?

i had thought that kesey was happy with the movie (learn something

everyday i suppose)

yrs

derek

(ps one more good book also good movie? how 'bout M*A*S*H*?)

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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 10:23:56 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: MORE OXY THAN MORON <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject: Re: One, Two, Three, Four Flew OVER the nest

I will see Kesey this friday and saturday as he waddles the bus through Ohio. I

will try and ask him about Cassady and Randall Patrick M. Hold tight. I'm sure

Neal was some influence on that charcter.

Dave B.

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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 11:28:00 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject: Re: One, Two, Three, Four Flew OVER the nest

>From The Kerouac Quarterly:

tentative release date for a new "definitive" Kerouac bio:

The Beat Of Life by Ellis Amburn

It may be released this Fall...Mr. Amburn informs me that the length is

approx. 150,000 words long and is exhaustive. New information, fresh

documents, and Amburn's experience as being Jack's editor in the 1960's

should lead to a great book!

Vol. 1, No. 2 of The Kerouac Quarterly will be available

shortly...Thanks, Paul....

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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 11:44:12 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: AARON CHIDAKEL/JMC2000 <chidake1@JEFLIN.TJU.EDU>

Subject: a question for you

In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970507152800.0068f87c@pop.pipeline.com>

I'm relatively new to this list and although I have yet to add anything

to the circulating letters, I enjoy going through the seemingly endless

mail which piles in my folder. It seems as though between Gerry,

Charlie, et. al., there are a decent number of folks here on-line who are

quite familiar with the "beats" on a personal as well as professional

level.

I'm wondering if some of the living "beat" writers, such as Ferlinghetti,

Kesey, etc. know about this list. If so, why do they not drop us a line

once in a while? Seems like it would be an excellent opportunity for us to

hear about some of this stuff first-hand, and for them to stay active in

the beat literary discussion circuit.

Curious.

-AC

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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 11:55:37 -0500

Reply-To: race@midusa.net

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject: Old Bull Gaines

One of the things that Kerouac says Old Bull used to lecture about is

Mallarme'. Is there anywhere that Burroughs has written about Mallarme'

that someone could direct me towards?

A french prof at Augustana read my poem Yahtzee and said it was

something french coup de das or somesuch. ... mentioned Mallarme'.

perhaps the lectures were received unconsciously already, but i'd be

intrigued to see anything in print.

thanks,

david rhaesa

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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 20:12:07 +0200

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject: beat-italiano (cut-up)

be beat!

Chetro & Co.

"Burroughs individuo' la tecnica del cut-up vedendo

lavorare l'amico pittore Gysin. questa tecnica

consiste nel prendere dei brani di prosa, tagliarli

e rimontarli in maniera casuale.

Questi locali su trovavano nel cuore della citta',

erano le cantine e dei seminterrati definiti dalla

stampa cave esistenzialiste, credo pero' che solo

alcuni che le frequentavano conoscevano Sartre.

In queste sale non si trovavano piu' le orchestre

classiche del liscio, ma dei complessi che suonavano

repertorio jazz.

Guardavano con molta piu' attenzione, pero', alla

beat generation americana. il beat negli Usa era

un movimento letterario colto, segnato dalla rivolta

dello stile. La beat generation era un movimento

letterario urbano che attraverso la poesia aveva

completamente abbattuto il confine tra la parola

scritta e parola cantata. Nelle loro metriche i poeti

di questo movimento creavano un'intensa tensione

tipica del bebop.

rinaldo.

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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 14:32:16 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Using the Brain God Gave You

Timothy,

Even though you corrected yourself on Bill Gargen's comment regarding The

Kerouac Estate Battle versus the Viet Nam War, I'm kinda glad it slipped

through.

I was sitting outdoors with a laptop when I read:

>(Is Shakespeare seriously comparing the thousands of square miles of the

earth to

>the few meters that is in a theatre's stage?)

At that point I hooted out loud and a dozen people and a few ducks turned to

see what I was laughing at.

Jerry Cimino

Fog City

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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 14:53:56 -0600

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: John Mitchell <mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>

Subject: Re: Using the Brain God Gave You

In-Reply-To: <199705070155.SAA19670@hsc.usc.edu>

>remember all the world is a stage.

>(is Shakespeare seriously comparing the thousands of square miles of the

>earth to the few meters that is in a theater's stage?)

Yeah! And not only that, on those few meters we are all walking shadows

with just a brief hour to strut our stuff, which is full of sound and fury,

signifying nothing. (Sounds like Electronic-mail, which is just a few

centimeters in lot.) But since when has seeriousness ever stood in the way

of a Holy Goof? It didn't stand in Shakespeare's way, who also saw life as

a midsummer night's dream (Is Bottom Beat? Or just a jackass? After all,

he talked as if he had been to a great feast of languages and had come home

just with the scraps.), not to mention a few thousand other things, all of

them serious, poets being like madmen lunatics and lovers, all compact.

Which surely includes Beats and their Barristers.

Was the question serious or just unholy goofery? (Or am I just one of

those sitting ducks staring in the direction of Jerry Cimino's laughter?)

The older I get the more serious metaphors become, I guess would be my

straight answer. I am not convinced that metaphor is merely another

version of the virtual. I'm on no Shakespeare List, but I couldn't tell

you the number of times in the past few weeks I have thought all the world

was a stage...all, sigifying monkeys or butterlifes or Aguirre: Wrath of

God. If I were a lawyer, I could use my personal defense strategy to

justify Gerry Nicosia's analogy between Beat Estate Wars and Vietnam War:

Hyperbole is valid figure of speech. A form of metaphor, if not the best.

Is this guy serious? Hey, just a rhetorical question. // John M.

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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 14:22:39 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: Nick Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU>

Subject: Re: Using the Brain God Gave You

If I were a lawyer, I could use my personal defense strategy to

>justify Gerry Nicosia's analogy between Beat Estate Wars and Vietnam War:

>Hyperbole is valid figure of speech. A form of metaphor, if not the best.

>Is this guy serious? Hey, just a rhetorical question. // John M.

Seriously though I think you could argue that litigation has taken the place

of combat for a lot of people, at least in this 'developed' world. And I'll

bet the bodycount from overstressed litigants isn't that far removed from

those in military conflicts. There are more suicides than murders, even in

the US. There seems to be an unending urge for people to BEAT up on each

other, using whatever the society allows them to use.

Nick

**************************************************************************

*Nil Carborundum Illegitimis*

It's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees

Nick Weir-Williams

Director, Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208

President, Illinois Book Publishers Association

List Manager, chipub listserv

ph: 847 491 8114

fax: 847 491 8150

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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 16:41:18 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: Re: Visions of Cody

In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 7 May 1997 04:40:43 -0500 from

<taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>

Yass! Yass!, right on target, Jeff.

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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 16:51:10 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: William Morgan <Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Kerouac question

Thanks Phil: Mainly I want to find out whether it's fair to say he was

"arrested" or was it something different? He lost his freedom for awhile in

jail, but I want to be accurate.

Yours,

Bill Morgan

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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 16:56:19 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: William Morgan <Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Kerouac question

Bill:

Thanks for the help, I'm not certain when I'm answering directly to a person

on this damn computer and when I'm answering to all 200 list members, don't

want to repeat time and again. My main concern is whether it's fair to say

he was "arrested" since I've seen it mentioned that he was "arrested as a

material witness" or was he "held" as a material witness. I know that it

really amounts to the same thing but I want to be accurate (thanks to years

with Allen, it pays to get it right the first time).

See you soon,

Bill Morgan

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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 23:18:59 +0200

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject: Emilio Vedova, ventian tracks.

be beat!

map of musei in italy:

http://www.museionline.it/english/index.htm

http://www.museionline.it/english/geo/index.htm

address of venetian artists:

http://www.art-diary.com/Art-Diary-Internet/ITALY/venezia.html

Emilio Vedova "home-page":

http://csi2000.csi.it/~laval/rivoli/autori/vedova.html

Emilio Vedova at Biennale as member of jury

http://www.repubblica.it/cultura_scienze/biennale/biennale/biennale.html

rinaldo

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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:00:26 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject: Re: Kerouac question

At 04:56 PM 5/7/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Bill:

>Thanks for the help, I'm not certain when I'm answering directly to a person

>on this damn computer and when I'm answering to all 200 list members, don't

>want to repeat time and again. My main concern is whether it's fair to say

>he was "arrested" since I've seen it mentioned that he was "arrested as a

>material witness" or was he "held" as a material witness. I know that it

>really amounts to the same thing but I want to be accurate (thanks to years

>with Allen, it pays to get it right the first time).

>See you soon,

>Bill Morgan

>He was definitely arrested because there was a bail set and posted by Edie

Parker. I believe he was arrested as a material witness originally because

he supposedly had knowledge of the crime. Then they must have "spilled the

beans" and told about Jack helping to get rid of the knife by putting it

down the sewer. If Lucien had been charged with first degree murder Jack

would have been tried as an accessory after the fact because he helped him

get rid of the knife. Can anyone elaborate further? Phil

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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:10:39 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject: Ann Charters Interview

I have been told by a number of people to do my own research on the Estate

Battle. Part of my doing that is asking questions and advice from people on

this List. One of the things I was told I should become familiar with is the

Ann Charters Interview in the Beat Scene.

I have asked TWICE in the last four days if someone would post a summary of

that Interview. So far the only person who has referenced that article was

Gerry Nicosia himself, quoting a portion that substantiated his position.

I can only assume from this lack of response that there is nothing of

consequence in this article that is opposed to Gerry's position.

I am still waiting if that is not the case.

Jerry Cimino

Fog City

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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:12:54 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject: Cast of Characters

In my ignorance I guess I was under the mistaken impression that John Sampas

was one of Stella's brothers, a guy pehaps in his 60-70's. Now, after

reading a recent post it appears he is a nephew of Stella, I'm assuming

somebody in his 30's-50's. Could someone clarify, please?

Also, who is Jim Sampas? I saw on the Rykodisc he is listed as the Producer

of the CD. How is he related to John?

Another interesting thing I discovered while doing my research. Apparently

George Tobia, John Sampas' lawyer, is also Hunter S. Thompson's lawyer.

Anybody know how that came about? On the Rykodisc it says he was present

when Hunter was recording "Ode to Jack" at 5 in the morning! Christ, I hope

he wasn't on billable time!

Jerry Cimino

Fog City

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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:15:45 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject: Jack's Intentions

Leon wrote,

>Whatever it is that we think, or Gerry wants everybody to think, Jack could

have

>very easily left his literary properties to public agencies, if that is what

he wanted

>to do with it. Like Jan wanted to do. But he didn't.

Leon,

I must take issue with this line of argument.

Your point is well taken than Jack "could have" done something different than

he did and obviously he didn't take the necessary safeguards. But you seem

to indicate the disposition of his archives would not have mattered to him.

I reject that position.

>From what I understand Kerouac kept scrupulous notes and records and had

everything annotated and categorized. He apparently talked about "someday"

when the historians were going to look at his stuff. We all know he

constantly wrote about the "Duluoz Legend" which of course was the story of

his life from beginning to end, everything documented, everything real.

Because Jack died unexpectedly at a relatively young age he had not yet made

arrangements to get everything into a University Libarary or whatever.

Indeed, most of his books were out of print when he died so who would expect

anybody may have even wanted his archive in 1969?

In addition, let's not forget Jack was a dysfunctional alcoholic, possibly

incapable of really planning those aspects of his life out to the detail

required.

To say he wouldn't have cared because he didn't do these things does not

obviate his intent or desire. I doubt this can have any bearing on the legel

wrangling, but I'm convinced Jack would not have wanted his stuff sold off

piecemeal.

Jerry Cimino

Fog City

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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:15:24 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>

Subject: this sunday

i ain't had time to keep uptodate reading my beat-l digests

so i don't know if this has been mentioned yet.

channel 4 are showing a documentary this sunday (may 11),

i can't remember the exact time (it may actually be about 0:10

which would make it monday morning) but it's about the life &

times of allen ginsberg.

those in the uk look out for it!

cheers all

joe

newcastle, uk

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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:18:20 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: For Michael Buchenroth

In a message dated 97-05-07 15:49:49 EDT, you write:

<< On Thu, 1 May 1997, Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:

I feel honored to have the opportunity to share with a truly great

American writer and poet! I have your book, "Last of the Mocassins"

(LOM-using your acronym) and in fact I just finished reading it for the

2nd time. I bought it from WaterRow earlier this spring. >>

Correction: I didn't write the message, I was quoting it.

Pam Plymell

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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:18:44 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject: The Big Lie

I was on an airplane the other day thumbing through various magazines because

the battery in my laptop was depleted (horrors!).

I was pleasantly surprised when I came across (not literally) an article in

Self Magazine that concerned itself with the repetition of a falsehood and

how something when repeated often enough, even if it is not true, takes on

the air of being true simply because it has been heard so many times.

The article had to do with "False Memory Syndrome" and quoted a study that

was pubished in Psychological Science where an experiment was done with 225

Kent State students that showed how one false suggestion led subjects to

recall a non-event about 35% of the time. When the suggestion was repeated

the incidence of the false memory increased. After three mentions the

subjects reported false memories on average of 55% of the time! The

conclusion was raising the notion again and again wore down the subject's

resistance to the point where they believed what they were told.

Despite the fact this article did not mention Adolph Hitler or Nazi's in

general this got me to thinking about Gerry Nicosia's claims that certain

people have been repeating "lies" over and over and over. Gerry's point, of

course, is that he can not defend himself against unsubstantiated claims that

say he is only in it for the money and glory etc. As I recall, this has been

asserted a number of times, but no one has offered so much as one iota of

evidence that it is true. Gerry contends the assertion alone hurts his

position, though, as some people assume it must be true or other people

wouldn't be saying it.

Now I don't like to use the word "lie". I think it is way too inflamatory.

I much prefer the word "discrepancy" or some other euphemism. Calling your

opponent a "liar" forces him/her into an intractible position. They often

feel they can't back off on their claims at all or they'll be admitting

they're a "liar".

I much prefer language that can allow someone to adjust their position while

not losing face. "Perhaps you mispoke" or "Perhaps I didn't understand your

point" are nice sanitary ways of saying "You don't know what the hell you're

talking about" or "You're so full of shit your eyes are brown".

I'm putting everybody on notice regarding this Estate debate: I'm going to

make it my business to assure that anybody who makes an assertion gives at

least a plausible explanation of why they're saying what they're saying.

This situation with Jack's archives is just too important to get lost in

hyperbole so there'll be no more free rides as far as I'm concerned. If you

make a claim against someone you'd better be prepared to back it up.

Otherwise you're going to hear from me that I think there is a "discrepancy"

in your argument.

Jerry Cimino

Fog City

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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:25:02 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: a question for you

In a message dated 97-05-07 16:28:18 EDT, you write:

<< It seems as though between Gerry,

Charlie, et. al., there are a decent number of folks here on-line who are

quite familiar with the "beats" on a personal as well as professional

level. >>

Larry F. came over to the flat one day with Ginsberg. I was urging LF to

publishl the First Third and was asking Neal to read it to him. That was in

63. I had met Neal in 62. I also urged LF to publish Bukowski even though he

wasn't at that time considered a beat at least by me. LF earlier had turned

down the manuscript Naked Lunch for publication. At least that's what I

heard.

They may be lurking or LF may be sending Rinaldo his poetry to cut up, who

knows. I'm sure they have spies out.

Charles Plymell

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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 17:33:08 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject: Re: Hey, Anstee, wait for the bell!

In-Reply-To: <199705020406.VAA10779@germany.it.earthlink.net>

RA,

Who will benefit WHEN the Kerouac collections are being cared for in a

library that has a preservation and conservation lab? Everyone who has

enjoyed reading the Beats, everyone who is a student, teacher, scholar of

Beat Lit.

It is apparent that people are slowly coming to the realization that these

collections must be preserved. The collections are national treasures. JK

is a national treasure, as is Jan.

Some people may believe that ownership, regardless of how that ownership

was established, is all that is necesary to wheel and deal with items from

the collection. This kind of profitering is wrong. That's why is is

important that collectors understand that any items that are sold, any

items are purchased, are going to come back and haunt the people involved.

Private collections of material by authors such as JK by people with no

immediate connection to JK--collections made posible simply because of

wealth is the personification of greed.

It's really no different that tearing pages out of library books. Everyone,

except the person with the torn-out page, is the loser.

A few years ago, when I was involved with designing some posters for

libraries--posters about mutilating books--I was contacted by a university

and asked what I felt a just penalty would be for a student caught tearing

pages out oaf a books at the university library. I told them the student

should be expelled. Even if it was a first offender they asked Absolutely

I replied.

jo grant

BE ON THE WATCH

for items stolen from the Keroauc Collection

O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell

http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html

Academic & Small Press Authors & publishers

display books free at

<http://www.bookzen.com>

302,443 visitors since July 1, 1996

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:44:47 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Visions of Cody

Bill Gargan:

Could you explain why sometimes the response to a message arrives before the

message? For instance your Visions of Cody response <<Yass! Yass!, right

on target, Jeff.>> seems to have appeared before whatever Jeff has said.

BTW Visions of Cody is one my favorites when I read it more than 30 years

ago.

Pam Plymell

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 17:58:26 -0600

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: dawn m zarubnicky <fedex@UNM.EDU>

Subject: Re: New York, NY

In-Reply-To: <970506091658_777075611@emout18.mail.aol.com>

On Tue, 6 May 1997, William Morgan wrote:

> Dear Gerry:

> Hoping you won't mind a non-Sampas question. I'm putting together a walking

> tour of Kerouac's New York and wanted to include a statement concerning

Bill...can you give us some more info on the tour.. With what organization?

I used to take walking tours of the city (non-beat related) when I lived

in New York through the New School...What are areas are you planning on

including....

Speaking of NY and somewhat beat related...Since my last visit in

January, I've been thinking a lot about the Times Square gentrification/

renovation project. I realize that financially this is a good thing for

NYC and the residents of the area, but part of me mourns the loss of a

New York institution and is saddened that the area will take on a 57th

street appearance...guess this is just the part of me that is resistant

to change and feels yet another unique characteristic of New York

will be lost forever....

Can anyone recommend a book that chronicals the history of Times Square

through photos? same with East Village?? or perhaps a stellar book on

the general History of New York???

Thanks..Dawn

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 20:45:56 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: Re: this sunday

In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 7 May 1997 18:15:24 EDT from

<100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>

Please let us know more about this film if you see it.

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 19:11:12 -0700

Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject: Re: Kerouac question

William Morgan wrote: . .

My main concern is whether it's fair to say

> he was "arrested" since I've seen it mentioned that he was "arrested as a

> material witness" or was he "held" as a material witness.

> Bill Morgan

And I understand from courtesy of a backchannel post that Jan Kerouac

sold the arrest warrant--so maybe we will never know.

J Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:20:53 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Matthew S Sackmann <msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>

Subject: Re: Visions of Cody

In-Reply-To: <Pine.PMDF.3.91.970507041019.540765679A-100000@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>

YES!

and there are some sentences in the book that are just so beautiful and SO

true.

"Everything belongs to me because I'm poor."

sounds very reminiscent of Janis Joplin's

"Freedoms just another name for nothing left to lose."

and Bob Dylan's

"When you aint got nothing, you've got nothing to lose."

then there's lines like:

"Whenever I realize that I'm going to die, I no longer can

understand the meaning of life" (373)

"All the Indians along the road wanted something from us. We wouldn't be

on the road if we had it." (380)

"I can see the hand of God. The future's in Fellaheen. At Actopan this

Biblical plateau begins--it's reached by the mountains of faith only. I

know that I will someday live in a land like this--I did long ago." (380)

Dman, i could quote three sentences on from every single page of this

fricking book.

And i dont even think any comments of mine regarding the book would be

worthy, i would much prefer just quoting Jack himself in all his Beauty.

"the dew is on the road again and as forever. . . I'm a fool, the new day

rises on the world and on my foolish life: I'm a fool, I loved the blue

dawnsover racetracks and made a bet Ioway was sweet like its name, my

heart went out to the lonely sounds in the misty springtime night of wild

sweet America in her powers, the wetness on the wire fence bugles me to

belief, I stood on sandpiles with an open soul, I not only accept lost

forever, I am made of loss--I am made of Cody, too..."

And then the final lines, even putting them down here would not so them

justice.

the book is just a wonderful show of how imaginattion and reality interact

to create a Reality more real than the "real world."

i'll leave my comments at that...but maybe more later...

matt

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 00:38:40 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Visions of Cody

While I'm making coffee tonight, the name "Cody Pomeroy" bubbles up to

consciousness and for the first time I see the "pome" part of it like an

apple, or a poem (as in all sizes) and the "roy" like king. But if it's "ray"

instead, all the better to reach, search and shine or be an elegant dangerous

fast-moving fish.

Cody then recalls Wild Bill, master of self-reinvention and legendary

showman,

or the code that is the matrix of manifestation.

Jul

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 08:33:59 -500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Nick Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU>

Subject: pranksters

Reuter's take on Speed 2...glad I missed it after all that. Was

anyone there?>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Still Merry, Kesey's pranksters now tour by air

> From: C-reuters@clari.net (Reuter / Andrew Stern)

> Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:11:25 PDT

> Newsgroups: clari.local.illinois.chicago, clari.living.top,

> clari.living.books

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> CHICAGO (Reuter) - Author and aging provocateur Ken Kesey

> sipped grapefruit juice and signed books for tie-dyed young

> readers Wednesday, many of whom were not born when Kesey's Merry

> Pranksters delivered an ``acid test'' to America.

> As Bob Dylan's lyric ``everybody must get stoned'' wailed

> from speakers aboard the latest incarnation of Kesey's famous,

> multicolored ``Further'' bus, other Pranksters signed autographs

> and sold stickers for $1 apiece.

> ``Let me tell you a Timothy Leary story,'' the white-haired,

> 61-year-old Kesey told those lined up clutching their dog-eared

> copies of Kesey's masterpiece, ``One Flew Over the Cuckoo's

> Nest.''

> But instead of a tale of mad partying from the drug-laced

> 1960s, Kesey recalled his death-bed conversation with the former

> Harvard professor and devotee of hallucinogenic drugs.

> ``I told him, 'Let's meet somewhere on Halloween.' Leary

> said, 'I'll meet you at Ginsberg's grave.' Now that's what I

> mean -- a sense of humor right to the end,'' Kesey said of

> Leary, who died last year.

> Staying with the death-bed theme, Kesey recalled with a

> chuckle the late Beat generation poet Allen Ginsberg's last

> words: ``Too-do-loo.''

> Kesey, 61, and his band flew in by airplane from recent

> bookstore appearances in San Francisco, not far from his

> farmhouse in Pleasant Hill, Oregon, where the original

> Pranksters' bus sits gathering rust. The ``new'' bus, a 1947

> model, was not fit for the long journey and was brought in by

> flatbed truck.

> The group was scheduled to arrive May 10 at Cleveland's Rock

> and Roll Hall of Fame, which will hold an exhibition devoted to

> the mid-60s era of psychedelic music, illustrated by the book

> Kesey was signing, ``I Want To Take You Higher: The Psychedelic

> Era 1965-1969.''

> Arriving with Kesey aboard the psychedelic bus were a few

> veterans of that earlier 1964 tour whose cross-country antics

> were chronicled in Tom Wolfe's masterpiece of ``new

> journalism,'' ``The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test.'' The group

> spiked drinks with the drug LSD, painted gas stations, and

> recorded the crazy episodes.

> Kesey has been quoted as saying he now takes LSD only once a

> year, on Easter, to remain grounded.

> Among the Pranksters on this latest ``Grandfurther'' tour

> was Carolyn ``Mountain Girl'' Garcia, an ex-wife of the late

> Grateful Dead bandleader Jerry Garcia, to whom the assembled

> throng sang ``Happy Birthday'' before the now-grayed Garcia

> cheerfully told them to ``shut up.''

> Missing from Wednesday's scripted book-signing were many of

> the original Pranksters, including the wild man bus driver Neal

> Cassady who played prominent roles in Wolfe's book and in Jack

> Kerouac's earlier gem, ``On the Road.''

> ``He (Wolfe) had all the notes and all our tapes, so it was

> accurate. But it was an East Coast take on the West Coast, and

> the East Coast is always 30 years behind,'' Kesey said.

> Asked if they had pulled any pranks on this tour, Bill

> Burwell, a Kesey neighbor who raises native plants (not

> marijuana) and sells them to the federal government, could not

> recall any recent shenanigans.

> ``But on the way to San Francisco, we got a prank pulled on

> us,'' the burly Burwell said. ``The locals in Red Bluff

> (California) covered the bus with roses while we were asleep.''

> -=-=-

> Tell us what you think about the ClariNews! Send your comments

> to <<our comments email address>> <comments@clari.net>.

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 11:12:52 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject: Attention: Bill Gargan

Dear Bill:

I haven't received any Beat-L mail in over two days. Could you check what's

happening? Many thanks for your help!

Jeffrey

Water Row

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 11:15:12 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: "Michael L. Buchenroth" <mike@INFINET.COM>

Subject: Re: For Michael Buchenroth

In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970507085932.18621G-100000@user2.infinet.com>

I feel honored to have the opportunity to share with a truly great

American writer and poet! I have your book, "Last of the Mocassins"

(LOM-using your acronym) and in fact I just finished reading it for the

2nd time. I bought it from WaterRow earlier this spring. AND after

reading your autobiography, seeing "Betty's" photo, etc., etc., LOM read

so much more emotionally charged like those electrons in the EPR paradox!

As I read LOM -inside my brain- I had emotional electrons beat-lining

faster than light in opposite directions from each other rapping and

tapping up against both sides of my skull and according to Eistein that

ain't supposed ta happen! Who knows exactly what it made me feel like!

But most certainly I "felt" your book! LOM remains such an emotionally

charged, revved up account of incredibly interesting, truly American

experiences! -such a rich, historical, powerful read! Damn!

Thanks Charley!

-Michael Buchenroth

> > COWS

> >

> > Look at cow faces

> > cattlemen cruising the stockyards

> > the thing is

> > cows don't care

> > cows are queer

> > I saw a cow on muscle beach

> >

> > I once found a cow magazine

> > with a cover of cows black and white

> > hooked up to iron milkers

> >

> > Cow poetry in it

> >

> > If you drink milk before going

> > to bed you'll wake up with a

> > bovine faced hangover

> >

> > Huncke stole a cow

> > took it to the city

> > on his back

> >

> > Charles Plymell:

> > Michael is building a website for me. Thank you. Nice birthday present.

> > http://www.buchenroth.com/cplymell.html

> >

> Michael L. Buchenroth

> mike@buchenroth.com

> www.buchenroth.com

> To view

> Columbus' Electronic Literary Magazine

> go to

> www.buchenroth.com/magazine.html

Michael L. Buchenroth

mike@buchenroth.com

www.buchenroth.com

To view

Columbus' Electronic Literary Magazine

go to

www.buchenroth.com/magazine.html

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 12:30:55 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: Re: Attention: Bill Gargan

In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 8 May 1997 11:12:52 -0400 from <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Jeff, all your mail was bouncing back to the list. Got a message that said you

weren't recognized at aol.com or something to that extent. I didn't delete you

but my colleague may have done so. Simply resubscribe. If you have a problem,

let me know.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 12:33:32 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: Oops!

Sorry for posting that last note to Jeff to the list. I thought it was going d

irect...oh, well!

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 09:48:58 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject: Jan Kerouac's Burial

May 8, 1997

For those who feel (as I do) that actual Kerouac's ought to have

something to say about things Kerouacian, there has been a major victory.

Paul Blake, Jr. complained to St. Louis Cemetery in Nashua that he

did not want his grandmother Gabrielle Kerouac's grave dug up, when there

was no need to do this. The plan had been to bury Jan's ashes on top of

Gabrielle, thereby saving the two remaining vacant spaces in the Kerouac

Family Plot for members of the Sampas family. (There is already one Sampas

buried there.)

The ownership of the plot may have to be determined by the courts,

but the cemetery now says they will direct Jan's ashes to be buried in one

of the empty spaces--allowing her to have a burial site of her own, which

God knows she deserves. At least this will allow people to leave

remembrances specifically for Jan, if they wish, without the confusion of

having Gabrielle and Jan in the same grave.

I've been sick and doing extra child-care duty, so haven't gotten to

the last two days' posts yet; for those who may be awaiting answers, please

be patient. Thanks.

Best always, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 10:56:43 -0700

Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Comments: To: "Jack's Intentions"@cruzio.com

Jerry Cimino wrote:

> Leon wrote,

> >Whatever it is that we think, or Gerry wants everybody to think, Jack could

> have

> >very easily left his literary properties to public agencies, if that is what

> he wanted

> >to do with it. Like Jan wanted to do. But he didn't.

> Leon,

> I must take issue with this line of argument.

> Your point is well taken than Jack "could have" done something different than

> he did and obviously he didn't take the necessary safeguards. But you seem

> to indicate the disposition of his archives would not have mattered to him.

> I reject that position.

> >From what I understand Kerouac kept scrupulous notes and records and had

> everything annotated and categorized. He apparently talked about "someday"

> when the historians were going to look at his stuff. We all know he

> constantly wrote about the "Duluoz Legend" which of course was the story of

> his life from beginning to end, everything documented, everything real.

> Because Jack died unexpectedly at a relatively young age he had not yet made

> arrangements to get everything into a University Libarary or whatever.

> Indeed, most of his books were out of print when he died so who would expect

> anybody may have even wanted his archive in 1969?

> In addition, let's not forget Jack was a dysfunctional alcoholic, possibly

> incapable of really planning those aspects of his life out to the detail

> required.

> To say he wouldn't have cared because he didn't do these things does not

> obviate his intent or desire. I doubt this can have any bearing on the legel

> wrangling, but I'm convinced Jack would not have wanted his stuff sold off

> piecemeal.

> Jerry Cimino

> Fog City

> .-

I can see your point Jerry, I don't think I said he didn't care. Maybe I

should have said if he wanted to do it badly enough, or if he was sober

enough enough of the time, or if he cared enough. I stand corrected.

Collecting all the iformation meticulously does not mean, however, that

he did not intend for his desifnated heirs to use their judgment how to

deal with it according to their need or interest. In one of the posts

someone indicated, I believe Gerry, that Jack told his nephew that he

could do with it whatever he wanted. My memory is vague on this.

BTW Jerry, I am another great admirer of your interest, comprehensive

and intelligent post on this issue. I enjoyed reading it and feel right

on about almost all of it.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 12:14:17 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject: Re: a question for you

At 06:25 PM 5/7/97 -0400, you wrote:

>In a message dated 97-05-07 16:28:18 EDT, you write:

><< It seems as though between Gerry,

> Charlie, et. al., there are a decent number of folks here on-line who are

> quite familiar with the "beats" on a personal as well as professional

> level. >>

>Larry F. came over to the flat one day with Ginsberg. I was urging LF to

>publishl the First Third and was asking Neal to read it to him. That was in

>63. I had met Neal in 62. I also urged LF to publish Bukowski even though he

>wasn't at that time considered a beat at least by me. LF earlier had turned

>down the manuscript Naked Lunch for publication. At least that's what I

>heard.

>They may be lurking or LF may be sending Rinaldo his poetry to cut up, who

>knows. I'm sure they have spies out.

>Charles Plymell

Ferlinghetti often claims he's a painter now, not a poet, and just as often

eschews any connection with the Beat Generation. He straddled the fence in

the Kerouac Estate Fight too. He got a couple of permissions out of John

Sampas (for SCRIPTURE OF THE GOLDEN ETERNITY--which, ironically, is in

public domain-- and for POMES ALL SIZES). But he also donated about $200 in

rare City Lights first editions for the benefit auction in Jan's behalf in

March, 1995. Ginsberg refused to send even one unsigned copy of HOWL.

(Sorry, Bill Morgan, but that's the truth.)

Best, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 15:37:34 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: "Gibbons, Jeffrey x85139e1" <x85139@EXMAIL.USMA.ARMY.MIL>

Subject: Rolling Stone

I just wanted to let the list members know, if they haven't seen

already, that the newest issue of Rolling Stone has a rather lengthy

tribute to Allen. It includes a typical remembrance by the RS writer,

but also includes remembrances by some of the living "Beats" and artists

that he influenced. Some nice pics too.

Jeff

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 15:58:40 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Clay Vaughan <CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>

Subject: Re: New York, NY

A couple of books on the Village, not strictly defined by your

request, but interesting nonetheless...

Fred McDarrah's GLORY DAYS IN GREENWICH VILLAGE, and an earlier THAT

TIME AND PLACE

Anatole Broyard's KAFKA WAS THE RAGE... not a picture book, but a

pretty lively personal account

And on the East Village, a book we have in our art library, a book

of photographs (and some text) and from a much later period (1970s

into 80s) than either the McDarrah and Broyard books is, ART AFTER

MIDNIGHT: THE EAST VILLAGE SCENE.

These are only to speak of some of those I've read, and not to mention

all the sociological/historical 1920s and 30s treatments, of which

there are some good ones, though I know you must be more focused on

the times contemporaneous with our Beat interests.

As far as those quasi or actual sociological treatments go, though,

the Jacob Riis book, HOW THE OTHER HALF LIVES, or Luc Sante's LOW

LIFE: THE LURES AND SNARES OF OLD NEW YORK can't be beat. Utterly

fascinating.

Clay Vaughan

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 16:00:47 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Zach Hoon <junky@BURROUGHS.NET>

Subject: Intro; Wm S Burroughs

Hello all...

My name's zach and i've just added myself to the beat-l list. I've been

maintaining a Wm S Burroughs site on the web since about the middle of '95,

and am, obviously, a big fan of his work.

I'm not very versed in the work of the other beats, save for Ginsberg, who

started it all for me (it was the Miles biography of Ginsberg that i found

for a dollar at a garage sale, got me reading in this direction.) Kerouac

i've tried to read, but to no real success or enjoyment...

So i'm just wondering: what are some of your general opinions on the work

and life of WSB?

if anyone's interested, the site is going through a heavy restructuring

right now, but the url is

http://www.burroughs.net

thanks,

-z

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 16:00:16 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Using the Brain God Gave You

In a message dated 97-05-06 23:44:13 EDT, you write:

<< Even

Ginsberg in his old age admitted he was wrong about the Viet Cong and didn't

know they would be so bad. >>

When did Ginsberg admit this?

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 16:07:58 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: William Morgan <Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: New York, NY

The walking tour is really to take the form of a book to be published this

summer by City Lights. It will contain 8 separate walking tours of the city

plus a miscellaneous section. Areas are: Columbia, Times Square, Rockefeller

Center, Chelsea, 2 Village tours and 2 East Village tours. I'm thinking

about physically doing one or two of the walking tours sometime soon if there

is any interest, just haven't figured out how to announce it.

There is a great history of Times Square book, I'll try to find the title,

but it's something like Times Square over the Years, or such.

Bill Morgan

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 15:12:21 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: MARK NIGON <Mark_Nigon@MAIL.CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM>

Subject: Intro; Wm S Burroughs -Reply

Comments: To: junky@BURROUGHS.NET

Hey Zach,

I'm a Burroughs novice but thoroughly enjoy his work and his wicked

sense of humor. Just finished reading Cities of the Red Night. Very

cool! I too was "introduced" to Burroughs work via Ginsberg's poetry but

lean more toward the Kerouac side of Beat Gen. writings. There are some

very knowledgeable people on the list regarding Burroughs writing and

I'm sure you'll get a kick out of some of the threads that come up. If

you haven't already, check out Luke Kelly's Burroughs site and cut up

machine. (www.bigtable.com) Great sight!

Welcome to the list!

-Mark

MARK_NIGON@MAIL.CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM

>>> Zach Hoon <junky@BURROUGHS.NET> 05/08/97 03:00pm >>>

Hello all...

My name's zach and i've just added myself to the beat-l list. I've been

maintaining a Wm S Burroughs site on the web since about the middle of

'95,

and am, obviously, a big fan of his work.

I'm not very versed in the work of the other beats, save for Ginsberg,

who

started it all for me (it was the Miles biography of Ginsberg that i

found

for a dollar at a garage sale, got me reading in this direction.)

Kerouac

i've tried to read, but to no real success or enjoyment...

So i'm just wondering: what are some of your general opinions on the

work

and life of WSB?

if anyone's interested, the site is going through a heavy restructuring

right now, but the url is

http://www.burroughs.net

thanks,

-z

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 14:02:11 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject: Re: Using the Brain God Gave You

At 04:00 PM 5/8/97 -0400, you wrote:

>In a message dated 97-05-06 23:44:13 EDT, you write:

><< Even

> Ginsberg in his old age admitted he was wrong about the Viet Cong and didn't

> know they would be so bad. >>

>When did Ginsberg admit this?

This was mentioned in the NY Times Obituary. A similar disapointment about

the "mullahs" in Iran was noted.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 18:06:29 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Tracy J Neumann <tjneuman@UMICH.EDU>

Subject: Re: pranksters

In-Reply-To: <199705081420.AA285021243@lulu.acns.nwu.edu>

Hi! I just returned from seeing Kesey and the bus in Ann Arbor, and

thought I'd throw in a few comments. First, does someone who knows more

about kesey and this exhibit than I do know why they changed the spelling

of "Furthur" to "Further"? Just curious. I read the post of the article

from Chicago and had to laugh, because for once it seemd like a fairly

accurate assessment. There was something odd and surreal about Borders

employees wandering around in tie-dyed tees with "The Pranksters do Ann

Arbor" or something equally silly on the back. It was still pretty cool,

though...John Cassady bumped into me and I had resist the urge to grab him

and tell him how obssessed I am with his father :) Also, does anyone know

what's on the videos they're selling along with the tee shirts? Are they

copies of the video Tom Wolfe describes in The Electric Kool-Aid Acid

Test? Anyway, just wanted to encourage anyone who has the opportunity to

check out the bus and Kesey--sorry if I sound a little over eager and

completely unworldly, but for a 21 year old midwestern college student

events like these are the most excitement I'm likely to get for quite a

while!!

Tracy

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 17:15:18 -0600

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: John Mitchell <mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>

Subject: Re: Visions of Cody

In-Reply-To: <970508003826_-1266179629@emout14.mail.aol.com>

Interesting (you should make coffee more often at night) recognition--and

credible, since Jack did spell <poem> as <pome> presumably to de-academize.

de-pietize, or de-mystify poetry (a la Monkey-Zen or Holy Goofery), but I

don't get the part about apple in relation to <pome>? // John M.

While I'm making coffee tonight, the name "Cody Pomeroy" bubbles up to

>consciousness and for the first time I see the "pome" part of it like an

>apple, or a poem (as in all sizes) and the "roy" like king. But if it's "ray"

>instead, all the better to reach, search and shine or be an elegant dangerous

>fast-moving fish.

>Cody then recalls Wild Bill, master of self-reinvention and legendary

>showman,

>or the code that is the matrix of manifestation.

>Jul

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 16:29:03 -0600

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>

Organization: Calgary Free-Net

Subject: Re: Visions of Cody

In-Reply-To: <l03020902af980dc243bf@[141.224.144.84]>

easy

"pomme" is french for "apple". so you get "poem","king","apple",

"ray/shine" all thru one name.

excellent job, jul.

horay!

yrs

yass yass

derek

On Thu, 8 May 1997, John Mitchell wrote:

> Interesting (you should make coffee more often at night) recognition--and

> credible, since Jack did spell <poem> as <pome> presumably to de-academize.

> de-pietize, or de-mystify poetry (a la Monkey-Zen or Holy Goofery), but I

> don't get the part about apple in relation to <pome>? // John M.

> While I'm making coffee tonight, the name "Cody Pomeroy" bubbles up to

> >consciousness and for the first time I see the "pome" part of it like an

> >apple, or a poem (as in all sizes) and the "roy" like king. But if it's "ray"

> >instead, all the better to reach, search and shine or be an elegant dangerous

> >fast-moving fish.

> >

> >Cody then recalls Wild Bill, master of self-reinvention and legendary

> >showman,

> >or the code that is the matrix of manifestation.

> >

> >Jul

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 18:39:12 +0000

Reply-To: morocco@walrus.com

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Gregory Severance <morocco@WALRUS.COM>

Subject: Re: Visions of Cody

> >While I'm making coffee tonight, the name "Cody Pomeroy" bubbles up to

> >consciousness and for the first time I see the "pome" part of it like an

> >apple, or a poem (as in all sizes) and the "roy" like king. But if it's "ray"

> >instead, all the better to reach, search and shine or be an elegant dangerous

> >fast-moving fish.

> >

> >Cody then recalls Wild Bill, master of self-reinvention and legendary

> >showman,

> >or the code that is the matrix of manifestation.

> >

> >Jul

> Interesting (you should make coffee more often at night) recognition--and

> credible, since Jack did spell <poem> as <pome> presumably to de-academize.

> de-pietize, or de-mystify poetry (a la Monkey-Zen or Holy Goofery), but I

> don't get the part about apple in relation to <pome>? // John M.

The name "Cody Pomeroy" certainly resonates with me. My brother and

sister-in-law named their eldest son "Cody" (neither of them have ever

read Kerouac; neither of them have probably ever even heard of JK) and

my paternal grandfather's mother was born to immigrants from Wales, in

Pomeroy, OH, an Ohio river town.

* + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + *

Gregory Severance

morocco@walrus.com

http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"What costume shall the poor girl wear

to all tomorrow's parties?" -- Lou Reed

["All Tomorrow's Parties"]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"But at the far end of the universe

the million eyed Spyder that hath no name

spinneth of itself endlessly" -- Allen Ginsberg

["Lysergic Acid"]

* + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + *

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 15:44:40 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject: Re: Cast of Characters

At 06:12 PM 5/7/97 -0400, you wrote:

>In my ignorance I guess I was under the mistaken impression that John Sampas

>was one of Stella's brothers, a guy pehaps in his 60-70's. Now, after

>reading a recent post it appears he is a nephew of Stella, I'm assuming

>somebody in his 30's-50's. Could someone clarify, please?

>Also, who is Jim Sampas? I saw on the Rykodisc he is listed as the Producer

>of the CD. How is he related to John?

>Another interesting thing I discovered while doing my research. Apparently

>George Tobia, John Sampas' lawyer, is also Hunter S. Thompson's lawyer.

> Anybody know how that came about? On the Rykodisc it says he was present

>when Hunter was recording "Ode to Jack" at 5 in the morning! Christ, I hope

>he wasn't on billable time!

>Jerry Cimino

>Fog City

John Sampas is Stella's youngest brother. Jim Sampas is John's

nephew. John has been grooming Jim as his successor. Thanks to John's

sponsorship, Jim got to produce some of the musical events at the last NYU

Kerouac conference (the one Jan and I were kicked out of, after Jan asked

for 5 minutes to speak). Jim Sampas was all over the place with a purple

ribbon on his chest, while they didn't even give Jan a free ticket to the

Town Hall reading, and she stood outside on the street all nite. (Further

history, if anyone cares.) (Maybe I'm now talking to myself.)

My guess is that Thompson got to know Sampas at the first NYU Beat

Conference in 1994, and Sampas "did him a favor" (John's favorite way of

getting useful people into his camp). I'm glad you explained that to me,

because Thompson almost punched me out when I asked him to write a piece on

Jan Kerouac and her fight to save her father's archive. Thompson also acted

like I was some rude stranger coming up to him in New York, when in fact I'd

had dinner with him and Ron Kovic (my old buddy, Mr. Born on the Fourth of

July) in North Beach a few years earlier. However, Thompson was stoned at

the time of the North Beach dinner, he was jumping up on the tables in

Tosca's and swinging at imaginary fastballs, so I guess he had an excuse for

not remembering.

Best, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 18:04:53 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Matthew S Sackmann <msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>

Subject: Re: Rolling Stone

In-Reply-To: <c=US%a=_%p=USGOV%l=EXMAIL10-970508193734Z-39998@exmail04.usma.army.mil>

On Thu, 8 May 1997, Gibbons, Jeffrey x85139e1 wrote:

> I just wanted to let the list members know, if they haven't seen

> already, that the newest issue of Rolling Stone has a rather lengthy

> tribute to Allen. It includes a typical remembrance by the RS writer,

> but also includes remembrances by some of the living "Beats" and artists

> that he influenced. Some nice pics too.

> Jeff

> >

I heard that, from a reliable source (someone who works at Rolling Stone),

that AG was supposed to get the cover but then U2's manager called up

Rolling Stone and told them that they really needed the cover (their

record and tour sales were down and they needed the publicity).

Is U2 on the cover? If this is true than i think i will never again have

the love for U2 that I did.

thought you all might be interested in this tidbit--I was very offended.

matt

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 19:11:16 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: MORE OXY THAN MORON <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject: Re: Rolling Stone

Allen G. was going to be on the cover of Rolling Stone, they even did the art

work for it. Jann Wener was all for it "despite the money they would lose in

sales." However, the band U2 had a contract for the cover and pushed for it.

This was the band's agents that were pushing for the cover, the band itself may

not have even known what was happening. BTW, U2 was slagging in sales which is

one reason why their "people" pushed for the cover. So Allen missed out and U2

got the press, yawn.....

Dave B.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 16:11:58 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject: Jack Kerouac's intentions

>> Because Jack died unexpectedly at a relatively young age he had not yet made

>> arrangements to get everything into a University Libarary or whatever.

>> Indeed, most of his books were out of print when he died so who would expect

>> anybody may have even wanted his archive in 1969?

>> In addition, let's not forget Jack was a dysfunctional alcoholic, possibly

>> incapable of really planning those aspects of his life out to the detail

>> required.

>> To say he wouldn't have cared because he didn't do these things does not

>> obviate his intent or desire. I doubt this can have any bearing on the legel

>> wrangling, but I'm convinced Jack would not have wanted his stuff sold off

>> piecemeal.

>> Jerry Cimino

>> Fog City

>> .-

>I can see your point Jerry, I don't think I said he didn't care. Maybe I

>should have said if he wanted to do it badly enough, or if he was sober

>enough enough of the time, or if he cared enough. I stand corrected.

>Collecting all the iformation meticulously does not mean, however, that

>he did not intend for his desifnated heirs to use their judgment how to

>deal with it according to their need or interest. In one of the posts

>someone indicated, I believe Gerry, that Jack told his nephew that he

>could do with it whatever he wanted. My memory is vague on this.

>BTW Jerry, I am another great admirer of your interest, comprehensive

>and intelligent post on this issue. I enjoyed reading it and feel right

>on about almost all of it.

(Leon Tabory)

Dear Leon-- May 8, 1997

I agree with Jerry that I don't think Jack expected to die as

quickly as he did. He had gone to his lawyer in September, 1969, to get a

divorce filed against Stella, and probably figured he'd live to see the

divorce go thru. If Stella was out of the picture, and Jack left everything

to his mother, then as far as he knew his archive would pass along to Paul

and Jan, his "blood line," as he called it.

Before Jack died, needing money desperately, he did make two sales

of parts of his archive--both times to universities, his Ginsberg letters to

U. of Texas, and his Burroughs letters to Columbia. He rejected, however, a

big deal from Gotham Book Mart.

Jack did tell his nephew, essentially, to do what he wanted with

Jack's stuff, which just goes to show the kind of trust that existed within

the inner core of the Kerouac family. He had last seen Paul Jr. when Paul

was about 20 or 21, and Jack had known him all his (Paul's) life. That

trust has been vindicated, since Paul Jr. has never wavered in his intention

to get "Uncle Jack's" papers into a library, if Gabrielle's will is thrown

out in Florida. Paul even signed a letter of intention with Jan to get all

Jack's stuff into the Bancroft Library, if details can be worked out.

In the October 20, 1969, letter you refer to, Jack made clear that

he did not want anyone named Sampas to as much as touch his papers. I don't

think there's any way you can construe this to mean the Sampases were his

"designated heirs."

Even when the "designated heirs" sell things off piecemeal, it's not

pretty. There's an article anyone interested in the Kerouac Estate Fight

ought to read in this month's POETS & WRITERS magazine, called "Selling

Pieces of the Phoenix: May Sarton's Estate Goes to the Auction Block."

Sarton's heirs evidently figured it was okay to auction all her personal

belongings [not her manuscripts and papers] as a benefit for the American

Academy of Arts & Sciences, but, as the writer Frances Lefkowitz comments:

"As her possessions get split up and carted off, sold and resold, her

writing is the only thing that stands a chance of remaining whole." Ditto

for Jack Kerouac, unless we win in Florida.

Best always, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 19:20:16 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Ann Charters Interview

Jerry:

Do you know what number it is. I have all the ones I'm in and might have it.

Charles Plymell

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 16:34:25 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject: Re: Kerouac question

At 07:11 PM 5/7/97 -0700, you wrote:

>William Morgan wrote: . .

> My main concern is whether it's fair to say

>> he was "arrested" since I've seen it mentioned that he was "arrested as a

>> material witness" or was he "held" as a material witness.

>> Bill Morgan

>And I understand from courtesy of a backchannel post that Jan Kerouac

>sold the arrest warrant--so maybe we will never know.

>J Stauffer

Dear James: May 8, 1997

Will my "backchannel" opponents never tire of mudslinging?

(I guess it's easier than answering why John Sampas isn't putting

the Kerouac archive in a library.)

Jan Kerouac did not sell the Lucien Carr material witness warrant.

Jan sold the warrant (belonging to her mother) which sought Jack

Kerouac to pay child support. It was given her by her mother. She made

several copies of it before she sold it. It is not the kind of document

which is important for scholars who are studying the composition process of

Jack Kerouac. I will place a copy on deposit in the Bancroft Library, along

with Jan's whole archive, if John Lash ever lets me.

Jan sold it because she needed the money to bring Paul Blake Jr.'s

son, young Paul III, to speak in his father's place in New York, at a press

conference announcing the filing of her Florida lawsuit in 1994. It was

important for someone to represent Blake's point of view there.

The person who bought the warrant, as I understand it, was John

Sampas's lawyer, GEORGE TOBIA. Since then, the Sampases have used that fact

to claim, over and over, that Jan would simply sell off Jack Kerouac's whole

archive piecemeal if she got the same chance.

Neither Mr. Tobia nor Mr. Sampas could have been too interested in

the actual warrant if they never even bothered to read it. In any case, we

can rest assured that it's in good hands.

Best always, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 18:38:19 -0500

Reply-To: race@midusa.net

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject: Re: Intro; Wm S Burroughs

Zach Hoon wrote:

> Hello all...

> My name's zach and i've just added myself to the beat-l list. I've been

> maintaining a Wm S Burroughs site on the web since about the middle of '95,

> and am, obviously, a big fan of his work.

> I'm not very versed in the work of the other beats, save for Ginsberg, who

> started it all for me (it was the Miles biography of Ginsberg that i found

> for a dollar at a garage sale, got me reading in this direction.) Kerouac

> i've tried to read, but to no real success or enjoyment...

> So i'm just wondering: what are some of your general opinions on the work

> and life of WSB?

> if anyone's interested, the site is going through a heavy restructuring

> right now, but the url is

> http://www.burroughs.net

> thanks,

> -z

Zach, your e-mail address while amusing at least doesn't allow

communication from the Kansas vortex.

welcome to the list. i had a longer welcome via backchannel but i think

it is off somewhere in the wiring of things now.

david rhaesa

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 21:21:55 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Linda Highland <lrgh@WEBTV.NET>

Subject: It's a Small World, After All

Were members of this list at the "Velvet Years" opening at the

Photogaphiuc Resource Center in Boston this evening, or is the Kerouac

Estate matter on Everybody's mind? I happened to overhear part of a

conversation about "Sampas" and "Ann" and , I think < the Lowell

committee? It didn;t seem appropriate to maintain a prolonged attempt

at eavesdropping, much less jumping into the conversation--so I pried

myself away , dying of curiousity.

Great photo fo Jack listening to himself on the radio in the other

exhibit, huh, mystery Beat-l member?