beat list 1997

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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:00:54 -0700

Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject: Re: something completely different .... -Reply

Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:

> >Just to pipe in here....

> >I am an editor of textbooks of English as a Second/Foreign Language and one

> >of the first series that I worked on for Addison Wesley was one entitled

> >"New Horizons in English" and in Level 6 of that series we used an excerpt

> >of "October in Railroad Earth."

> >

> >This particular series sold millions and millions of copies worldwide. So,

> >just think....there's a good possiblity that someone down in Sao Paolo or

> >over in Taiwan learned English by reading Kerouac! Who'd a thunk it, eh?

> >

> >Best,

> >Kathleen

> This would have to be for very advanced ESL students.

> Most native american speakers would have trouble with this let alone a ESL

> student overseas.

Timothy,

Maybe you're selling them short. Is "October" that hard a read? If it

is so hard what is that much easier in the 20th century loose cannon.

Harder than Fitzgerald or Hemingway or Faulkner? Certainly not harder

than Faulkner.

J Stauffer

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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:03:25 -0700

Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject: Re: TRIUMPH OF THE WILL

Gerald Nicosia wrote:

> "...ten minutes of a lone cowboy waiting

> in an empty trail station for the Sampas gang to show up."

> --James Stauffer

> Dear James:

> It's been over two weeks, and I'm still waiting. My grub's done run

> out, and all I've glimpsed so far are a few outriders.

> (P.S. Leni Riefenstahl beats Sergio Leone any day.)

> Gerhard Von Nicosia

Gerry,

But I'll take a good spaghetti western any day, and I thought that you

would be good played by Bronson, with that nice little harmonica lick,

and we could have Sampas be the baby killing Henry Fonda character--I

don't know who Claudia Cardinale is.

James

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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:58:35 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: something completely different [Naked Lunch in French]

In a message dated 97-05-15 12:35:48 EDT, you write:

<< Do you know if NL has been redone in French since then? >>

No I don't know, but I'll try to find out.

Pam

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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 14:46:25 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!

....

>two posts ago, you brought up oliver stone, you commented that this

>situation is not like an oliver stone but a real one, you reminded me

>and other readers that the word conspiracy is in the dictionary, then

>you continued to throw conspiratorial claims and Now ....

>Mister David Race Rhaesa

Dear Mr. Rhaesa: May 15, 1997

If anyone seems hot under the collar, I'd say it's you.

My reference to Oliver Stone was in answer to your talk about

conspiracies.

If you still have the history of this dialogue in your computer or

on hard copy, please check to see who used the word CONSPIRACY first. I'd

lay odds that you or Chaput used it before I ever did. If I'm wrong, I owe

you a dinner in Kansas City.

Best, Gerry Nicosia

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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:39:33 -0500

Reply-To: race@midusa.net

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject: Re: something completely different .... -Reply

> who was instructed last year that: the White Whale respresents all that is

> paradoxical, unpredictable, and uncontrolable in nature; and if one tries

> to say that it signifies something else, he or she is flat out wrong!

funny, i'd heard that the white whale symbolized the elusive phantom of

being and that everything else was wrong :)

david

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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:43:22 -0500

Reply-To: race@midusa.net

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!

Gerald Nicosia wrote:

> ....

> >two posts ago, you brought up oliver stone, you commented that this

> >situation is not like an oliver stone but a real one, you reminded me

> >and other readers that the word conspiracy is in the dictionary, then

> >you continued to throw conspiratorial claims and Now ....

> >

> >Mister David Race Rhaesa

> >

> Dear Mr. Rhaesa: May 15, 1997

> If anyone seems hot under the collar, I'd say it's you.

> My reference to Oliver Stone was in answer to your talk about

> conspiracies.

> If you still have the history of this dialogue in your computer or

> on hard copy, please check to see who used the word CONSPIRACY first. I'd

> lay odds that you or Chaput used it before I ever did. If I'm wrong, I owe

> you a dinner in Kansas City.

> Best, Gerry Nicosia

no free dinner for me.

i used it before you i imagine.

i was hot. i felt that the Karmic referees missed a clipping foul.

obviously you didn't read it at midnight with Johnny Cash in the

background or it would have had a bit different perspective.

i'm out of it.

i hope you get the footnote in history you want and deserve. don't care

much how you choose to do it.

photocopiers kill trees

david rhaesa

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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:57:54 -0500

Reply-To: race@midusa.net

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject: Re: The horror! The horror!

Jeanne Vaccaro wrote:

> Sorry (i am alittle - alot - late...)

> I completely disagree with the idea that the Pranksters and others have to

> get moving with the times. Their statement, as I see it, is not necessarily

> about a particualar time in history, but rather about culture and lifestyle

> ... which has no boundries or limitations. It is about freedom and

> expression and a true love for life, both good and bad, and dealing... it is

> a message which i hope we can all learn from (wheather or not we choose to

> follow it). they urge us follow ourselves and reject the things which are

> thrown in front of us... we should seek things for ourselves...

> that is a timeless message...

> p.s. i have tickets to see dylan for the first time ever (for me he is a god)

> and friends gave me similar speeches about his voice failing, etc. but he is

> a legend regardless and i will appriciate him and his work forever

> ciao, jeanne.

Dylan is aging like a beautiful wine. as long as you don't expect to

hear an album repitition and enjoy spontaneous versions it should be a

treat. enjoy.

shalom,

david

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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 20:03:39 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!

...

>It [info about the warrant] was sent to me via a backchannel not directly

related to this

>controversy. I could look up the source if I had to, but it was not a

>Sampas. I have never met a Sampas, never been in Lowell or near it for

>nearly 50 years. Everyone you mention knows someone, who knows someone,

>who knows someone. Very little stays private if it is interesting. I

>seriously doubt I have been chosen by the Sampas Casa Nostra to leak out

>their little bits of information. I have never met Chapaut or Anastee

>or anyone except on this list. I am a non player here. It is examples

>like this that make me lean toward Chaput's conclusion as to your having

>become a little unbalanced over this.

>J Stauffer

Dear James, May 15, 1997

I trust you about the warrant info, but I am curious who your

"backchannel" was; perhaps you're not at liberty to say.

Before I commit myself to a loony bin, however, I do recall that the

day after Joe Grant stated on the Beat-List that he was going to print the

Paul Blake, Jr. letter, both Joe and myself got threatening telephone calls

from Mr. Tobia, Sampas's lawyer. Does that not seem as if Mr. Sampas has

his scouts out perusing the Beat-List for him? Or are we to assume he

simply reads it silently every day, and never responds? (Like the Deists'

version of God, the clockmaker who sits back, marveling at his own work.)

(That's a joke, Mr. Rhaesa, not part of the conspiracy theory, okay?)

Let me just add, James, that what I am is not "unbalanced"--at least

I haven't had anyone suggesting lately that I'm out of touch with

reality--but rather ANGRY. I watched one of the best friends I ever had,

Jan Kerouac, suffer needlessly for years before she died. And I'm not

talking about suffering from the kidney failure, which was bad enough.

I have people here pushing my buttons, claiming Jan said things she

never did, in effect lying about this woman now that she can't speak up for

herself any more, and it makes me even madder. I get the feeling that for

some people on the Beat-List, this is all a play with their favorite

characters, called, perhaps, SAMPAS AGONISTES. Well it's not a play for me.

Jan was a real person I watched go down to a tragic end--someone I cared

deeply about--and I believe with all my heart that her cause and her desires

were for justice and honor, not money, no matter how many people want to

believe that because it gives the story a better twist for them.

I'm still getting over the loss of Jan, and the grieving has been

hard, what with getting hit with a major legal action only months after her

death, by her ex-husband, and then having to deal with the major thefts from

the MEMORY BABE archive at the very same time. I certainly haven't

appreciated a lot of the cheap shots I've been getting here, and I wonder

how many of these flippant critics, if they had to deal with as much at once

as I have, would come out of it with their sanity intact.

I think I'm doing a pretty good job, all things considered.

I don't think I'm going to win any more converts here, so I'll take

a break for a while. I'm aware that making money is sexy; saving

manuscripts is not.

See you all on the Santa Fe Trail.

-- The Man With No Name

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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 22:13:53 -0500

Reply-To: race@midusa.net

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!

Gerald Nicosia wrote:

(Like the Deists'

> version of God, the clockmaker who sits back, marveling at his own work.)

> (That's a joke, Mr. Rhaesa, not part of the conspiracy theory, okay?)

a fairly good joke....

> See you all on the Santa Fe Trail.

> -- The Man With No Name

i'll stay at home with Matt Dillon and Festus ..... :)

david

p.s. best to read with "I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry" the best song for

grieving i've ever known. i respect the process of grieving and the

threats to sanity sincerely. i apologize if i have made your loss too

trying. i'm putting in a notice at the local library to buy your book

and the others mentioned. The only one on the shelf was McNally's so

i'm pleasantly enjoying his tale at the present.

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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 23:11:26 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: talk dirty to me <mutton@JANE.PENN.COM>

Subject: Re: school and literature...

howl's in your school library

jeeez

props to that place

jeremy

----------

: From: Robert H. Sapp <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>

: To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

: Subject: Re: school and literature...

: Date: Thursday, May 15, 1997 3:31 PM

: hello,

: at my school, only passing refernece to the beats is made; like, "and in

: the fifties, there was a group of people called beatnicks, who would sit

: in coffeshops and read poetry while beating bongo drums." And thats it.

: in the library, Ginsberg's Howl and The Fall of America are the only

: books by him there, and they are categorized as RESERVED, which means

: that they are kept in a shelf behind the checkout counter. "Fallof

: America" is missing. Howl rests there. Because its reserved, it can only

: be taken out for one night. Reserved books are the form of

: mini-censorship our school engages in, i guess so that no innocent child

: brosing through the poetry section will come across any "indecent" work.

: The Reserved books include Tim Leary's Flashbacks as well as Scietific

: books about drugs. if there was more beat literature at my school, itd be

: there too, but --

: adios, soory if this is boring,

: Eric

: On Thu, 15 May 1997, andrew szymczyk wrote:

: > hmmm,

: >

: > seeing that there's a lot of talk about school

: > programs, i feel that i need to budge in. i'm a junior in

: > high school right now, and not too long ago my american

: > lit. teacher became aware of my interest in the beat gen.

: > she already knew that i was reading more in my spare

: > time than most of the kiddies my age, but she was still

: > a little put off because of her experience with the beats.

: > she has never been a fan of kerouac because of his

: > apparent machoism to her, and other than that she

: > really hadn't dealt with more beat than she had to. i

: > tried to talk her into teaching a little from that era, and

: > she complied by promising me that she'd find some

: > appropriate poems that could be taught to the whole

: > class, but other than that she feels that her job would

: > be in danger. i must agree because there's just so

: > much that the small community in which i live can

: > handle. but after all of this she HASN'T deterred me

: > from delving farther into the literature.... in fact, she likes

: > to see and hear about what i'm reading, as long as it's

: > done on my own time. so i guess that as long as the

: > beats are mentioned in class and the students are

: > given fair awareness of them then i'll be happy.

: >

: > as a side note, we were made to watch a film

: > strip on walt whitman a little earlier in the year. the film

: > started going off on whom whitman has influenced

: > throughout the years, and as a picture of kerouac

: > surfaced on the screen i threw my hands up in joy. i

: > really don't think that anyone else in the class knew

: > what i was so happy about, but i suppose that that's

: > their loss.

: >

: > andrew

: >

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 23:15:50 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: talk dirty to me <mutton@JANE.PENN.COM>

Subject: Re: FROM ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY FROM ITALY with love.

this is equally wasteful electronic sponge space

but i agree wit you robert

nobody really flames anybody

its just a hunk of ideas stepping on eachother

learn

dance

move on

----------

: From: Robert H. Sapp <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>

: To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

: Subject: Re: FROM ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY FROM ITALY with love.

: Date: Thursday, May 15, 1997 6:39 PM

: excuse the interjection,

: as someone whose been on and off the list for more than a year now, i can

: observe, isn't it funny that attempts to "stop wasteful posts" often just

: creates a whole ongoing string of more wasteful posts, like arguments,

: namecalling, debates as to what is or isnt relevent, and posts like the

: one i'm writing which bathes in wastefulness.

: insincerely,

: Eric

: -- Perhaps the only way we can stop ourselves from going to hell is to do

: nothing to prevent it --

: On Thu, 15 May 1997, Michael Stutz wrote:

: > On Fri, 16 May 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

: >

: > > Michael, i ask pardon to all the Beat-List!, chiedo perdono!,

: > > are u interested in the UNIVERSAL knownledge of the matter?

: >

: > Maybe you should learn the universal language of netiquette, then. Load

up a

: > search engine and look up "netiquette" -- or however you spell it in

: > Italian, because I'm sure there are translations -- so you can learn

that

: > its impolite and in bad taste to quote other people's email on a public

: > forum without their permission. Same goes to flooding lists which you

did

: > here not too long ago.

: >

: > It is not my place (or desire) to police a list but this constant

barrage of

: > noise is wearing thin. Sure I looked at that '77 url you posted, but

saw no

: > relation to the list other than the words "william blake," and that

article

: > a while back (all in Italian) with the nice Ginzy photo, but come on! I

know

: > German, so should I post a shitload of German poetry to the list, or

reprint

: > articles from _Der Spiegel_ about Allen Ginsberg? Why draw the line

there --

: > how 'bout I send copies of "Beat Zen, Square Zen, and Zen" -- Japanse

: > translation -- to the list? It will look like noise to most readers,

but the

: > "UNIVERSAL knowledge" is somewhere in those bits!

: >

: > Other listers: am I missing something here?

: >

: > Rinaldo: gosh you're quick to address my complaint (sent to you just

minutes

: > before you posted to the list), but you've been great at ignoring other

: > email I sent to you in the past asking you questions or to expound on

other

: > things you wrote. Guess I just wasn't interesting enough to share your

: > universal knowledge then.

: >

: > Sick of noise and bad vibes, all too much lately,

: >

: > m

: >

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 20:53:45 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>

Subject: endings to legendary flame wars

I don't think I'll be able to come up with anything

to commemorate our recent flame war as imaginatively

as Rinaldo did with his famous Ninety Posts From Italy,

but the impending end of this war (and my worried sense that

the hostility level is still pretty high in general

around the old "L") ... well, it's reminding me of a post

my friend Jef Morlan once sent to a different list

he and I are both on, after this list went through the

contortions of its own epic and bitter flame war. Here's

what he sent. Maybe it'll help us all heal here too.

(NOTE: the following words are courtesy of Jef Morlan):

>>>What about the sweeping-generalizations crowd?

>>>

>>Without sweeping generalizations, most writers

>>would be out of a job.

>>> Ah, yes they are. "He who can control the music of a society

>>>controls the minds of that society.." (Mussolini)

>>Mussolini was lynched by his own people.

>Yes, but for a *time* he could have all the teenage girls he wanted!

>"unless we force people to be cool"

> Absolutely! Let's be anarcho-fascists!

I was wondering if any others can feel the "pointed energy" coming

out of this thread? Why is this such a "pointed/charged" thread?

Does any of this really matter?

mmmm........I think I'll round it off this energy a little.

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Schuap a do a do ah SQUEEEEE!

do wap a doodle SQUEEEEE!!!!

(All together now!)

SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!

doodle doodle SQUEEEEE!!!!!

(ONE MORE TIME!)

Schuap a do a do ah SQUEEEEE!

do wap a doodle SQUEEEEE!!!!

(All together now!)

SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!

doodle doodle SQUEEEEE!!!!!

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

I've been digging in the dirt a lot lately and one of

the many aspects of it I have enjoyed is that dirt

doesn't care who or what you are. With a little

love and attention, a *few* well chosen healthy

seeds, it will give/produce/create freely.

I like to think of the net as dirt.

We should choose carefully

what/where/when we plant.

(ONE MORE TIME!)

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Schuap a do a do ah SQUEEEEE!

do wap a doodle SQUEEEEE!!!!

(All together now!)

SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!

doodle doodle SQUEEEEE!!!!!

(ONE MORE TIME!)

Schuap a do a do ah SQUEEEEE!

do wap a doodle SQUEEEEE!!!!

(All together now!)

SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!

doodle doodle SQUEEEEE!!!!!

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Ah, yes! What FUN! :)

------------------------------------------------------

Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com

Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/

(the beat literature web site)

Queensboro Ballads: http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/

(my fantasy folk-rock album)

###################################

"Tie yourself to a tree with roots"

-- Bob Dylan

-----------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 23:03:13 -0500

Reply-To: race@midusa.net

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject: Re: endings to legendary flame wars

Levi Asher wrote:

> I don't think I'll be able to come up with anything

> to commemorate our recent flame war as imaginatively

> as Rinaldo did with his famous Ninety Posts From Italy,

> but the impending end of this war (and my worried sense that

> the hostility level is still pretty high in general

> around the old "L") ... well, it's reminding me of a post

> my friend Jef Morlan once sent to a different list

> he and I are both on, after this list went through the

> contortions of its own epic and bitter flame war. Here's

> what he sent. Maybe it'll help us all heal here too.

> (NOTE: the following words are courtesy of Jef Morlan):

> >>>What about the sweeping-generalizations crowd?

> >>>

> >>Without sweeping generalizations, most writers

> >>would be out of a job.

> >>

> >>> Ah, yes they are. "He who can control the music of a society

> >>>controls the minds of that society.." (Mussolini)

> >>

> >>Mussolini was lynched by his own people.

> >>

> >Yes, but for a *time* he could have all the teenage girls he wanted!

> >"unless we force people to be cool"

> > Absolutely! Let's be anarcho-fascists!

> I was wondering if any others can feel the "pointed energy" coming

> out of this thread? Why is this such a "pointed/charged" thread?

> Does any of this really matter?

> mmmm........I think I'll round it off this energy a little.

> :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

> Schuap a do a do ah SQUEEEEE!

> do wap a doodle SQUEEEEE!!!!

> (All together now!)

> SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!

> doodle doodle SQUEEEEE!!!!!

> (ONE MORE TIME!)

> Schuap a do a do ah SQUEEEEE!

> do wap a doodle SQUEEEEE!!!!

> (All together now!)

> SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!

> doodle doodle SQUEEEEE!!!!!

> :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

> I've been digging in the dirt a lot lately and one of

> the many aspects of it I have enjoyed is that dirt

> doesn't care who or what you are. With a little

> love and attention, a *few* well chosen healthy

> seeds, it will give/produce/create freely.

> I like to think of the net as dirt.

> We should choose carefully

> what/where/when we plant.

> (ONE MORE TIME!)

> :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

> Schuap a do a do ah SQUEEEEE!

> do wap a doodle SQUEEEEE!!!!

> (All together now!)

> SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!

> doodle doodle SQUEEEEE!!!!!

> (ONE MORE TIME!)

> Schuap a do a do ah SQUEEEEE!

> do wap a doodle SQUEEEEE!!!!

> (All together now!)

> SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!

> doodle doodle SQUEEEEE!!!!!

> :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

> Ah, yes! What FUN! :)

> ------------------------------------------------------

> Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com

> Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/

> (the beat literature web site)

> Queensboro Ballads: http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/

> (my fantasy folk-rock album)

> ###################################

> "Tie yourself to a tree with roots"

> -- Bob Dylan

> -----------------------------------------------------

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

heeeeeee heeeeeeeee

snort

ha ha ha

aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaa

david

p.s. Mussolini plagiarized that music line. :)

p.p.s. plagarism is basic to all culture ... plagiarized from Charles

Seeger .... plagiarized from some guy next to Charles at a deli once

p.p.p.s.

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 00:09:13 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject: Jo Grant: A lazy webmaster

Dear Jo Grant:

I have asked you twice now to remove errors in Gerry's essay that you are

running on your web page and twice you have refused. Now the reason is that

you do not know where to look on your own page. What's the address?, you ask.

Ok - here's the address:

www.bookzen.com/nicosia.html.

What's your excuse going to be now for keeping alive the b.s.?

Rod Anstee did not have precise knowledge of all transactions - what was sold

and who had bought them, as Gerry states in his essay. Gerry has already

discussed this matter with me during a phone conversation.

You are also keeping alive the BS story that J. Depp may have paid $50K for

one item. That is not true. Gerry discussed this matter wth me also.

I want all members of the Beat-L to know that although I respect Gerry's

passion for

his archive crusade, I believe that you are causing him harm by keeping the

errors alive.

I suggest that all Beat-L members look at both sides of this archive coin

before

making any decisions on where they stand on this issue. Just because Jo Grant

puts it on his web page does not mean that it is true.

A last comment for Jo Grant: any further discussion between us should be

carried out privately.

Jeffrey Weinberg

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:36:32 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: "s.a. griffin" <perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>

Subject: Re: Something completely different #2

At 07:51 AM 5/15/97 -0500, david rhaesa wrote:

>i enjoyed reading the varied posts from varied voices on the lists. it

>seems that the first thread (something #1) is partially devoted to

>whether students can handle the material, whether high schools should be

>burned and whatnot. this seems a relevant area to question in the

>process of determining whether to work for "incorporation" (rather than

>pushing) beat litearture into the high school curriculum.

>so far, the suggestions of "railroad earth" and "on the road" have been

>mentioned. there are some who feel that other materials might not make

>it by the school boards. that is probably a concern. it is more likely

>that one would be working towards the textbook editors at first.

>so I'm asking a second kind of question in "something completely

>different #2". Assuming, that we did want to put forth some effort in

>this direction, what besides "Railroad Earth" would be recommended

>suggestions to encourage being excerpted into Survey Type Readers of

>American Literature to provide a "taste" of this rich material.

>i seem to agree that secondary literature courses beyond the initial

>survey should be highly optional. Besides ON ROUTE, what beat materials

>seem possible to get on optional readings lists. This question probably

>involves considering community standards a bit more. Is Kerouac the

>only possible introduction the students could get their hands on in the

>classroom? It seems that Burroughs' material unless excerpted into a

>Burroughs' reader for this purpose would be nearly impossible to get

>past the moral guard. i'd be interested in others opinions on what the

>best types in each of these categories might be.

>i appreciate y'alls response. this is not an attempt to jump off the

>bridge at Big Sur concerning the "Something #1" thread. I'll take some

>time over the next day and begin to think more actively about all the

>comments and suggestions made and continue to post to that thread as

>well. i am only attempting to provide two different threads of focus on

>this matter.

>david rhaesa

>salina kansas

>not sure if i'm persona non-grata at the high school anymore or not.

>told the principal he was running a prison and not a school (a result of

>a bit of mania and having read too much Ivan Illich on education; and

>because it was TRUE). i think i'm accepted in certain parts of the

>building to do some local investigation.

>david rhaesa

railroad in oct. earth is a winner. how about watts/beat zen . . . or

ferlinghetti: starting from s.f. & coney island? i don't remember any of

these being too rugged for hi school. maybe even as a period piece for some

good discussion mailer's white negro? or how about we on this list come up

with some "suitable" stuff and put together some kind of "anthology" for

open study in schools? hmmmm....... how about it? once again we have an

opportunity to be constructive instead destructive with our collective

minds/imagination. gee, there's an idea, let's be creative & constructive.

ideas like this make me happy. in the words of rodney the king, "can't we

all just get along?" great to hear from the younger set with their opinions

and experience. I myself being a card carrying geek/dork in jr. high & high

school spent countless hours in the library discovering many great things

that nobody taught in class. of course when really do schools teach one to

think?

xxxooo

s.a.