=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:44:19 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!
Gerald
Nicosia wrote:
>
>
...
>
>It [info about the warrant] was sent to me via a backchannel not directly
>
related to this
>
>controversy. I could look up the
source if I had to, but it was not a
>
>Sampas. I have never met a Sampas,
never been in Lowell or near it for
>
>nearly 50 years. Everyone you
mention knows someone, who knows someone,
>
>who knows someone. Very little
stays private if it is interesting. I
>
>seriously doubt I have been chosen by the Sampas Casa Nostra to leak out
>
>their little bits of information. I
have never met Chapaut or Anastee
>
>or anyone except on this list. I am
a non player here. It is examples
>
>like this that make me lean toward Chaput's conclusion as to your having
>
>become a little unbalanced over this.
>
>
>
>
>
>J Stauffer
>
>
>
>
Dear James, May 15, 1997
>
> I trust you about the warrant info,
but I am curious who your
>
"backchannel" was; perhaps you're not at liberty to say.
Gerry,
I'll
dig back through my mail when I get time and try to find it. It
won't
be easy. I am not organized enough to
stick these mails into
files
so there is a pile.
I
really mean no disrespect toward your seriousness. Everyone's tone
gets
heated, and I sincerely sympathize with your grief over losing Jan.
James
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:49:09 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Jo Grant: A lazy webmaster
Since
it seems to be important to someone that somebody named Johnny Depp
did not
pay 50K for a raincoat, how much did he pay?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:50:29 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Something completely different #2
s.a.
griffin wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
railroad in oct. earth is a winner. how
about watts/beat zen . . . or
>
ferlinghetti: starting from s.f. &
coney island? i don't remember any of
>
these being too rugged for hi school.
maybe even as a period piece for some
>
good discussion mailer's white negro? or how about we on this list come up
>
with some "suitable" stuff and put together some kind of
"anthology" for
>
open study in schools?
All
good suggestions. I like the idea. I Beat-L high school anthology
or
suggested reading list. I'd add a
dollop of Snyder, say some of the
Myths
and Texts poems.
James
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 01:04:23 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Dean M. Palmer"
<dean_palmer@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: FROM ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY
FROM ITALY with love.
>:
On Thu, 15 May 1997, Michael Stutz wrote:
>:
> Maybe you should learn the universal language of netiquette, then.
>Load
up a search engine and look up "netiquette" -- or however you spell
it
>in
Italian, because I'm sure there are translations -- so you can
>learn
that its impolite and in bad taste to quote other people's email
on a
>public
forum without their permission. Same goes to flooding lists which
>you
did here not too long ago.
>:
>
> It
is not my place (or desire) to police a list but this constant
>barrage
of noise is wearing thin. Sure I looked at that '77 url you
posted,
>but
saw no relation to the list other than the words "william blake,"
and
>that
article a while back (all in Italian) with the nice Ginzy photo,
but
come on! I
>know
German, so should I post a shitload of German poetry to the list,
>or
reprint articles from _Der Spiegel_
about Allen Ginsberg? Why draw
the
>line
there --how 'bout I send copies of "Beat Zen, Square Zen, and Zen"
--
>Japanse
translation -- to the list? It will look like noise to most
>readers,
but the "UNIVERSAL knowledge" is somewhere in those bits!
>:
Other listers: am I missing something here?
>
Sick of noise and bad vibes, all too much lately,
>
> m
I just
want Rinaldo to know that we do not all beleive in this crap
written
above. I do not stnd behind this racist critique of your posts.
If you
want to write in Italian- go for it. I cannot speak Italian (I
speak
spanish so I roughly understand what you say) but that does not
mean I
should stop you from writing. This is a open forum. Write however
you
want.
To the author of this piece- write in german
if you want. I will do what
I do
with Rinaldo's posts when i cannot understnd them- I will delete
them
without giving a thought. English is not the most important
language.
He can write and speak however he wants.
You might do well to look up netiquitte
yourself. Nowhere in any
ettiquette
sources I am familiar with is it ok to make derogatory
innuendos
about anothers language and/or heritage such as
"look up "netiquette" -- or
however you spell it in Italian"
My two cents worth-
Dean Palmer
/\/\/\/\/\~Dean_Palmer@juno.com~/\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/\/\/\~Funny
English Joke; man and wife in living room, phone rings,
man
answers and says he wouldn't know, better call the coast guard, and
hangs
up, wife says, "Who was it, dear?" and man says, "I don't know,
some
damn fool who
wanted
to know if the coast was clear." har-har-har (Neal
Cassady)~/\/\/\/\/\
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 01:21:41 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Jo Grant: A lazy webmaster
In-Reply-To:
<970516000913_155162182@emout19.mail.aol.com>
>Dear
Jo Grant:
>
>I
have asked you twice now to remove errors in Gerry's essay that you are
>running
on your web page and twice you have refused. Now the reason is that
>you
do not know where to look on your own page. What's the address?, you ask.
>Ok
- here's the address:
>http://www.bookzen.com/nicosia.html.
>What's
your excuse going to be now for keeping alive the b.s.?
Lighten
up Jeffery,
You
sent me the document address at 11:09 p.m. 05-15-97. At 12:58 a.m.
05-16-97
the changes were made.
I asked
for the address not as an excuse, but simply to find out where the
information
you complained about was located.
I made
the changes not because you demanded that I do, but because I'm
giving
you the benefit of the doubt. I trust that you have done what you
tell me
you have done--discussed it with Gerry.
I haven't heard from Gerry
on this
issue yet....
Please
understand that I have no problem with you.
I don't know you. I'm
simply
a retired laborer (a union worker) and a Deb's Socialist who's also
a
Wobbly who has been on the road, admires and respects both Kerouacs, and
JK's
comrades. I just want the Keroauc
literary arvchives in a library,
safe
and preserved. I'll keep anything to support that on my web site, I'll
walk a
picket line and I'll demonstrate. The material is much too important
to have
people wheeling and dealing and profiting by selling any part of
the
collection.
They--the
Sampas family--MAY own the collection. They may not.
If
Sampas claims that he can prove Memere's signature on the will is not
forged,
then let's give him the opportunity to do so.
j grant
BE ON THE WATCH
for
items stolen from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic
& Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
302,443
visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 01:29:51 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Jo Grant: A lazy webmaster
In-Reply-To:
<v01510101afa13a37c9f4@[128.125.224.159]>
>Since
it seems to be important to someone that somebody named Johnny Depp
>did
not pay 50K for a raincoat, how much did he pay?
Lazy
webmaster? Nah.
Not true.
Unskilled,
a novice, more at home with a wheel barrow loaded with paving
stones
than computer technology, YEH. But not lazy.
Disorganized,
not efficient in allocating my time, YEH. Those for sure. But
not lazy, and not a webmaster--yet.
You're
taking too much for Granted.
j grant
BE ON THE WATCH
for
items stolen from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic
& Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
302,443
visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 02:39:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Conspiracies
"Just
because people say you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get
you!"
Who said this? Allen Ginsberg? ;-)
I have
a feeling I'm about to piss a number of people off. So be it. I'm a
big
boy. I can take my lumps.
We've
all been witness to a lot of volleying back and forth these last few
weeks
regarding the Great Estate Debate.
We've seen namecalling (plenty of
it!),
we've seen claims and counterclaims, we've seen some pretty clever
humor,
we've seen a lot of disagreement and astonishingly (!) some honest
dialogue. I've got some pretty strong feelings about a
lot of these things
and I'd
like to share them with you.
1). Cease and Desist
I've
heard more than one person say it's time to call off the dogs, this
thread
has played out and certain folks seem damn tired of it. Usually these
come in
the form of some snide or pernicious remark aimed at one of more of
the
people doing most of the talking and somebody mumbles something about
"pet
diatribes" or "infomercials".
I
honestly don't see what the problem is here.
If you don't want to
participate
in this thread, then there are plenty of other threads to follow
like
the Pranksters or Joy Kicks Darkness and if none of these suit your
fancy,
then start up a new one! Correct me if
i'm wrong but since AG died I
believe
Bill Gargan cranked up the daily message capacity to 100 so I don't
believe
we're gonna run out of space. So if you
don't want to participate
then
hit the delete button! That's why God
invented it!
I'll
tell you why you keep reading, though, most of you anyway. Because this
thread
is damn interesting! Personalities and
flame wars aside there's a lot
of
stuff that's been learned here I bet you've never heard anywhere else.
And if some of it is honest disinformation,
then so be it, someone who knows
the
real scoop can correct the person who may think they know what they're
talking
about. And it doesn't have to be with
accusations of perpetuating an
"untruth".
It can be as simple as someone saying "here's what I know".
So hit
the delete button if you must, but better yet why not contribute? Say
something
meaningful, take a position! It's easy
to say "a pox on both your
houses". It's work to try to sort thru the muddle,
especially when some
people
do their best to try to obfuscate the real issues by tossing in
irrelevant
asides or outrageous charges.
I'm
going to do everything I can to keep this thread alive. Why?
Because in
the time
I've been on the list I haven't seen one other topic, with the
possible
exception of our coming together as a group when AG died, that is
more
important than this one. I challenge
anyone to demonstrate to me one
other
topic that we have ever discussed that can have a bigger potential
impact
than Kerouac's Archives. And if you
don't care about that, then focus
on the
other threads!
2).
Conspiracy Theories
Regardless
of who used the word "conspiracy" first, I don't see why it's so
hard
for people to believe Gerry Nicosia has felt conspired against. I don't
see
anyone trying to counter his claims Brad Parker's hotel reservations were
cancelled
or that John Sampas called Texas on John Lash's behalf or that
Viking
"coincidently" didn't renew or cancelled his contract (or whatever it
was -
must be my "foggy" memory) on Memory Babe a month after they signed a
six
book deal with John Sampas. That is,
after all, what a conspiracy is.
Two or
more people joining together to the detriment of someone else.
Folks,
let me tell you how I see it. Gerry
Nicosia is the only one IN THE
ARENA! The rest of us sit on our easy chairs with
our feet up and our
laptops
on our knees giving an opinion here and there, pontificating about
the way
the world oughta be, complaining that it is all so damn complicated
and
"each side is as bad as the other only worse". And where does that get
anyone?
Gerry
Nicosia has done something about this situation! He's taken action.
He's put his reputation and fortune on the
line and guess what! he's gotten
results! Certain people have heard him, the courts
have heard him. John
Sampas
has stopped selling off Kerouac's archives (outwardly at least, and I
imagine
most of us hope he's not doing it at all anymore).
And I
can't imagine any of this has been easy for Gerry, either. I would
imagine
he's been eating, breathing and living this thing for over five
years. Every day.
You and I have been witness to it for a couple of weeks
in a
passive way only, and then only if we decide to log on.
It
grates on me to hear Chaput's scholarly arguments such as "you're a
liar"
and the
one line I'm sure all scholars use regularly "Go Fuck Yourself"
played
out on the same level as Gerry's usually well thought out, reasoned
and
cogent arguments. Does Gerry lose his
cool sometimes? Sure. Has he
said
some things he probably wishes he could take back? I imagine he has.
But he's contributed a hell of lot more than
"you're a liar" and "na na na
na
naa".
Gerry
Nicosia is a force to be reckoned with.
Anybody who's read MEMORY BABE
can
tell you that. And what he says may not
always be pretty, but it rings
true to
me. He's shown the arguments of his
opponents to be weak and
ineffective,
not with his credentials (or his big heavy boob as Patricia
might),
but with the strength of his argument.
Seriously,
do you think Jan Kerouac filed this lawsuit on a lark? Do you
think
she was sitting around the house one Sunday afternoon thinking, "Hmmm,
what
should I do today? Take in a
movie? A walk in the park? I know!
I'll sue John Sampas!" C'mon people, lawsuits are very serious
business not
entered
into lightly by most people.
I wish
someone could tell me what I'm missing here - and with a serious
response,
not a flippant aside. What is it about
this thread that wears on
you? Is it that you feel left out? Then dive in! Ask questions. Pursue
possibilities. Play Devil's Advocate - but do it with an
eye toward
discovering
the truth! Not with an agenda of hiding
what some may fear will
get
out.
3). Scholarship
I don't
know where these Scholarship Wars came from, but I can tell you what
I
saw. On the internet, everybody's posts
look equal. And that's fine, we
all
have something to contribute. But when
someone who's total investment in
a
situation is casually looking over a few emails while watching the Disney
Channel
and drinking a six pak makes a post it can carry the same weight as
the
post of someone who has done their research and really knows what they're
talking
about. And that's good in a lot of
ways, but it forces the rest of
us to
really examine the arguments. And some
people are just too lazy to
make
the effort and other people just want to be entertained! And one person
can put
forth their all only to have what they say dismissed by someone who
doesn't
care or wants to hurt them by quoting them out of context.
Case in
point. A number of people have jumped
all over Nicosia because he
admitted
to the horrible crime that he is human and sometimes fallible. "I
sometimes
go from memory" Gerry said and other people have tried to use that
to show
he doesn't know what he's talking about or doesn't bother to check
his
facts. What kind of crap is that? And
at least he responds to the
challenges
posed to him. Jeffery Weinberg never
bothered to answer my
questions
about Jack's raincoat and the "napkin sketch". Nicosia doesn't
dodge
issues... he addresses them head on.
So when
Nicosia clips off his credentials he's simply documenting why his
opinion
is informed with regard to using original manuscripts verses xeroxes.
He's been trained in this, he's had
experience. I don't think he's trying
to say
he's better than anyone else although his "Send Me My Equal" post did
obviously
come off a little strong but he apologized for that almost
immediately. And quite frankly that's the best his
detractors have been able
to
do... distract him for a short period to the point where he
counterattacked
them at their own level. And yet no one
still has made a
sound
argument that he is wrong... only that
they are tired of hearing it.
And I can understand that... if I had
something to hide I'd be tired of
hearing
it too!
4). Finale
I'd
like to see something good come out of all this. And I think it can.
The argument that "there is nothing we
can do, it'll be settled in the
courts"
is weak in my opinion. That's giving up
our own power to make
something
happen. Every individual has the power
to make something happen.
As a group we can raise our collective voices
and DEMAND the truth. We've
learned
some new things just in the last day or two.
I didn't know Lowell
Celebrates
Kerouac! gets a portion of its funding from John Sampas. I think
that is
an important issue and I wonder if that is why we haven't heard from
some of
those people or if that's why Phil was so passionate in his defense
of
John. And if this is
"incorrect" I would hope someone would have the
decency
of telling me it is in error as opposed to calling me a "liar".
Discussing
these issues can bring more truth to light!
Bringing more truth
to
light might have an impact on the situation either before or when it goes
to
trial.
I
honestly and truly believe we can debate and discuss these issues, and
maybe
do it with the same sense of "sharing" that we did when AG died. And
maybe
by doing that we can help preserve Jack's Archives.
That's
what I'm about! I've said it before -
the issue is the archives.
You
know when I was in San Fran a few months ago and saw the OTR scroll for
the
first time with my own eyes I was mesmerized!
Here I was looking thru
this
piece of glass at a mythical document that changed my life 20 years ago.
I was fascinated! Tears welled up in my eyes.
I read every word I could
see on
it.
That's
what I'm about. The issue is the
archives.
Gerry
Nicosia isn't fighting for fame and glory.
He's fighting for you. And
you. And me.
And
like I said before, if we don't do it here on the Beat-L, who will? We
have
the power to investigate this. Do we
have to be so fractured that we
can't
stand to look at the truth?
Jerry
Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 05:07:52 +1100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Duncan Gray
<duncang@ENTO.CSIRO.AU>
Subject: Re: Neal's speed
Hello
Beat-lers,
Here's
some information from Richard White concerning Cassady, with regards
to an
earlier post of his. Thank you Charley
for getting him on the list
for a
while. I asked for his permission to
post this to beat-l.
A while
back Richard White wrote about his personal experiences with Neal.
>Thanks
for reading and responding. It's from an endless, unending and
>disjointed
history of San Francisco sixties from someone who was reasonably
>detached.
In my real life I'm a Gestalt theorist, a Clinical Director of
>Correctional
Substance Abuse Services, a son, a father, a poet . . .
>
>The
line about Neal doing work that others shouldn't have to do, etc., refers
>to
how he applied strength and energy to living on the edge and in peoples'
>faces.
Although he had his crashes, I never witnessed them. Every time I saw
>him
he was soaring. It could be quite annoying. He also seemed to treat
>everyone
he met with the same indiscretions: he was as busy with my young son
>as
he was with me, as busy with a fallen bum as he was with a rising star.
>With
Neal around, one not only needed to watch one's wife, one needed to
>watch
one's ass, literally, that is.
>
>I'll
offer you an anecdote that I don't think I've ever shared with anyone
>else.
I first met Neal on Gough Street around 1963 or so. I was playing "roll
>the
ball" in the hall with my three year old son and he decided to roll the
>ball
into the adjoining kitchen. The ball rolled under the dining table above
>which
sat three or four people; it came to a stop between short and knobby
>legs
in square, wrinkled cotton pants. I could hear the rapid rap through the
>table
top: it was coming from only one of the group, the guy who was
>providing
pillars for the ball for which I fumbled, and I was fascinated by
>the
velocity of his speech (and also singularly impressed with the content).
>I
glanced up toward his crotch, don't ask me why, and viewed this enormous
>bulge
running down the left pant-leg. At that moment, I thought, "My god,
>it's
Neal".
>
>Richard
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Duncan
Gray
Stored
Grain Research Laboratory
CSIRO
Division of Entomology, GPO Box 1700, Canberra ACT 2601
Ph.
(06) 246 4178 Fax (06) 246 4202
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 00:10:06 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Pearson
<digress@ELLENSBURG.COM>
Subject: Italian is beautiful, Italy is
beautiful, you are beautiful.
live long and prosper,
make love not war
free
speech
e pluribus
unum
www.ellensburg.com/~digress
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 05:26:31 +1100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Duncan Gray
<duncang@ENTO.CSIRO.AU>
Subject: Ginsberg talking about Cassady compared
to Cobain.
This is
sort of late, but the night before I heard about Allen's death I was
reading
an interview with Allen from a music magazine.
Here's a bit from it;
(Interview
by Stuart Coupe)
"I
suggested to him [Allen] that before the phone call I'd been thinking
about
the Beat Generation and how there was possibly a connection between
Neal Cassady...and
someone like Kurt Cobain, both of whom took a lot of drugs...
"I
don't think that Cassady was a suicide, and I don't think he was as
pained
as Cobain," Ginsberg says. "Cassady was very exuberant and had a good
time. The problem was that towards the end...the
LSD didn't do him any
harm. He smoked grass very strongly, but I think
all his all-night cross
country
driving, with the psychedelic bus and Kesey's Pranksters, I think he
took a
lot of amphetamines. He went down to
Mexico to unwind from that and
took
some downers to calm the nerves and went out walking. I think he passed
a
Mexican wedding where they plied him with some other things and the
combination
did him in. But he was quite a vigorous
guy and not so neurotic
really.
"But
Cobain was a marvelous singer. I hadn't
heard much of him until
towards
the end of his life and then I heard his unplugged version of
Leadbelly's
song and it was such a perfect vocal on that and i was really
moved. It was one of my favourite songs but I only
knew Leadbelly's version
before
that."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Duncan
Gray
Stored
Grain Research Laboratory
CSIRO
Division of Entomology, GPO Box 1700, Canberra ACT 2601
Ph.
(06) 246 4178 Fax (06) 246 4202
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 00:34:19 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Malcolm Lawrence
<Malcolm@WOLFENET.COM>
Subject: Michael McClure interview/Bricolage
Celebration!
Sorry
this is such short notice for anyone in the Seattle area, but my
friend
Yves, who is in the new Bricolage as well as a part of this special
reading,
only forwarded this to me today. But, hell, even if you can't make
it, the
magazine will STILL have the Michael McClure interview in it.
Cheers,
Malcs
-----------------------------------
BRICOLAGE PRESENTS
BRICOLAGE 1997: THE 14TH ISSUE
Bricolage,
the University of Washington's student literary arts magazine
proudly
presents its 14th issue at a special reading at the University
Book
Store (Second Floor, Main Branch, University Way) this Friday evening
at 7:00
p.m. Please join us in congratulating
the writers whose works
will
appear in this year's issue, including student writers:
Wendy
Duke Kit Gianas
Jason
Marc Harris Deniz Perin
Mary
Krutsinger Michael Tuttle
Michal
Carillo Sara Leslie Weiner
Barbara
Graham Barker Amanda Laughtland
Laura
Dabe Juliet Crawford
Yves
Jaques Heather Wellons
Michael
Ricci Donna Cheeseman
April
Pierce Jerod Allen
Deborah
Miranda
This
year's Bricolage also features poetry by faculty writers Linda Bierds
and
David Shields and an interview with internationally acclaimed "beat"
poet
Michael McClure.
Copies
of Bricolage will be available for sale at the reading for $6.00.
Get
yours signed by the writers and staff!
Shana
McKibbin Edward Jenkinson Tim Hering Melissa Wensel
Managing
Editor Poetry Editor Fiction Editor Adviser
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 02:36:16 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: A Factual Question
Jerry
is the voice of reason sometimes. i'm
not willing to go as far as
playing
devil's advocate in such a hot-furnace as this yet, but i will
ask a
simple question for clarification.
Are the
"Kerouac materials" currently the legal property of John
Sampas?
david
rhaesa
Jerry
Cimino wrote:
>
>
"Just because people say you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to
get
>
you!"
> Who said this? Allen Ginsberg? ;-)
>
> I
have a feeling I'm about to piss a number of people off. So be it.
I'm a
>
big boy. I can take my lumps.
>
>
We've all been witness to a lot of volleying back and forth these last few
>
weeks regarding the Great Estate Debate.
We've seen namecalling (plenty of
>
it!), we've seen claims and counterclaims, we've seen some pretty clever
>
humor, we've seen a lot of disagreement and astonishingly (!) some honest
>
dialogue. I've got some pretty strong
feelings about a lot of these things
>
and I'd like to share them with you.
>
>
1). Cease and Desist
>
I've heard more than one person say it's time to call off the dogs, this
>
thread has played out and certain folks seem damn tired of it. Usually these
>
come in the form of some snide or pernicious remark aimed at one of more of
>
the people doing most of the talking and somebody mumbles something about
>
"pet diatribes" or "infomercials".
>
> I
honestly don't see what the problem is here.
If you don't want to
>
participate in this thread, then there are plenty of other threads to follow
>
like the Pranksters or Joy Kicks Darkness and if none of these suit your
>
fancy, then start up a new one! Correct
me if i'm wrong but since AG died I
>
believe Bill Gargan cranked up the daily message capacity to 100 so I don't
>
believe we're gonna run out of space.
So if you don't want to participate
>
then hit the delete button! That's why
God invented it!
>
> I'll
tell you why you keep reading, though, most of you anyway. Because this
>
thread is damn interesting!
Personalities and flame wars aside there's a lot
> of
stuff that's been learned here I bet you've never heard anywhere else.
> And if some of it is honest disinformation,
then so be it, someone who knows
>
the real scoop can correct the person who may think they know what they're
>
talking about. And it doesn't have to
be with accusations of perpetuating an
>
"untruth". It can be as simple as someone saying "here's what I
know".
>
> So
hit the delete button if you must, but better yet why not contribute? Say
>
something meaningful, take a position!
It's easy to say "a pox on both your
>
houses". It's work to try to sort
thru the muddle, especially when some
>
people do their best to try to obfuscate the real issues by tossing in
>
irrelevant asides or outrageous charges.
>
>
I'm going to do everything I can to keep this thread alive. Why?
Because in
>
the time I've been on the list I haven't seen one other topic, with the
>
possible exception of our coming together as a group when AG died, that is
>
more important than this one. I
challenge anyone to demonstrate to me one
>
other topic that we have ever discussed that can have a bigger potential
>
impact than Kerouac's Archives. And if
you don't care about that, then focus
> on
the other threads!
>
>
2). Conspiracy Theories
>
Regardless of who used the word "conspiracy" first, I don't see why
it's so
>
hard for people to believe Gerry Nicosia has felt conspired against. I don't
>
see anyone trying to counter his claims Brad Parker's hotel reservations were
>
cancelled or that John Sampas called Texas on John Lash's behalf or that
>
Viking "coincidently" didn't renew or cancelled his contract (or
whatever it
>
was - must be my "foggy" memory) on Memory Babe a month after they
signed a
>
six book deal with John Sampas. That
is, after all, what a conspiracy is.
>
Two or more people joining together to the detriment of someone else.
>
>
Folks, let me tell you how I see it.
Gerry Nicosia is the only one IN THE
>
ARENA! The rest of us sit on our easy
chairs with our feet up and our
>
laptops on our knees giving an opinion here and there, pontificating about
>
the way the world oughta be, complaining that it is all so damn complicated
>
and "each side is as bad as the other only worse". And where does that get
>
anyone?
>
>
Gerry Nicosia has done something about this situation! He's taken action.
> He's put his reputation and fortune on the
line and guess what! he's gotten
>
results! Certain people have heard him,
the courts have heard him. John
>
Sampas has stopped selling off Kerouac's archives (outwardly at least, and I
>
imagine most of us hope he's not doing it at all anymore).
>
>
And I can't imagine any of this has been easy for Gerry, either. I would
>
imagine he's been eating, breathing and living this thing for over five
>
years. Every day. You and I have been witness to it for a
couple of weeks
> in
a passive way only, and then only if we decide to log on.
>
> It
grates on me to hear Chaput's scholarly arguments such as "you're a
liar"
>
and the one line I'm sure all scholars use regularly "Go Fuck
Yourself"
>
played out on the same level as Gerry's usually well thought out, reasoned
>
and cogent arguments. Does Gerry lose
his cool sometimes? Sure. Has he
>
said some things he probably wishes he could take back? I imagine he has.
> But he's contributed a hell of lot more than
"you're a liar" and "na na na
> na
naa".
>
>
Gerry Nicosia is a force to be reckoned with.
Anybody who's read MEMORY BABE
>
can tell you that. And what he says may
not always be pretty, but it rings
>
true to me. He's shown the arguments of
his opponents to be weak and
>
ineffective, not with his credentials (or his big heavy boob as Patricia
>
might), but with the strength of his argument.
>
>
Seriously, do you think Jan Kerouac filed this lawsuit on a lark? Do you
>
think she was sitting around the house one Sunday afternoon thinking,
"Hmmm,
>
what should I do today? Take in a
movie? A walk in the park? I know!
> I'll sue John Sampas!" C'mon people, lawsuits are very serious
business not
>
entered into lightly by most people.
>
> I
wish someone could tell me what I'm missing here - and with a serious
>
response, not a flippant aside. What is
it about this thread that wears on
>
you? Is it that you feel left out? Then dive in! Ask questions. Pursue
>
possibilities. Play Devil's Advocate -
but do it with an eye toward
>
discovering the truth! Not with an
agenda of hiding what some may fear will
>
get out.
>
>
3). Scholarship
> I
don't know where these Scholarship Wars came from, but I can tell you what
> I
saw. On the internet, everybody's posts
look equal. And that's fine, we
>
all have something to contribute. But
when someone who's total investment in
> a
situation is casually looking over a few emails while watching the Disney
>
Channel and drinking a six pak makes a post it can carry the same weight as
>
the post of someone who has done their research and really knows what they're
>
talking about. And that's good in a lot
of ways, but it forces the rest of
> us
to really examine the arguments. And
some people are just too lazy to
>
make the effort and other people just want to be entertained! And one person
>
can put forth their all only to have what they say dismissed by someone who
>
doesn't care or wants to hurt them by quoting them out of context.
>
>
Case in point. A number of people have
jumped all over Nicosia because he
>
admitted to the horrible crime that he is human and sometimes fallible. "I
>
sometimes go from memory" Gerry said and other people have tried to use
that
> to
show he doesn't know what he's talking about or doesn't bother to check
>
his facts. What kind of crap is that?
And at least he responds to the
>
challenges posed to him. Jeffery
Weinberg never bothered to answer my
>
questions about Jack's raincoat and the "napkin sketch". Nicosia doesn't
>
dodge issues... he addresses them head on.
>
> So
when Nicosia clips off his credentials he's simply documenting why his
>
opinion is informed with regard to using original manuscripts verses xeroxes.
> He's been trained in this, he's had
experience. I don't think he's trying
> to
say he's better than anyone else although his "Send Me My Equal" post
did
>
obviously come off a little strong but he apologized for that almost
>
immediately. And quite frankly that's
the best his detractors have been able
> to
do... distract him for a short period to the point where he
>
counterattacked them at their own level.
And yet no one still has made a
>
sound argument that he is wrong... only
that they are tired of hearing it.
> And I can understand that... if I had
something to hide I'd be tired of
>
hearing it too!
>
>
4). Finale
>
I'd like to see something good come out of all this. And I think it can.
> The argument that "there is nothing we
can do, it'll be settled in the
>
courts" is weak in my opinion.
That's giving up our own power to make
>
something happen. Every individual has
the power to make something happen.
> As a group we can raise our collective
voices and DEMAND the truth. We've
>
learned some new things just in the last day or two. I didn't know Lowell
>
Celebrates Kerouac! gets a portion of its funding from John Sampas. I think
>
that is an important issue and I wonder if that is why we haven't heard from
>
some of those people or if that's why Phil was so passionate in his defense
> of
John. And if this is
"incorrect" I would hope someone would have the
>
decency of telling me it is in error as opposed to calling me a
"liar".
>
>
Discussing these issues can bring more truth to light! Bringing more truth
> to
light might have an impact on the situation either before or when it goes
> to
trial.
>
> I
honestly and truly believe we can debate and discuss these issues, and
>
maybe do it with the same sense of "sharing" that we did when AG
died. And
>
maybe by doing that we can help preserve Jack's Archives.
>
>
That's what I'm about! I've said it
before - the issue is the archives.
>
>
You know when I was in San Fran a few months ago and saw the OTR scroll for
>
the first time with my own eyes I was mesmerized! Here I was looking thru
>
this piece of glass at a mythical document that changed my life 20 years ago.
> I was fascinated! Tears welled up in my eyes.
I read every word I could
>
see on it.
>
>
That's what I'm about. The issue is the
archives.
>
>
Gerry Nicosia isn't fighting for fame and glory. He's fighting for you.
And
>
you. And me.
>
>
And like I said before, if we don't do it here on the Beat-L, who will? We
>
have the power to investigate this. Do
we have to be so fractured that we
>
can't stand to look at the truth?
>
>
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 05:02:32 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Motivations
Howard,
I have
no doubt Sampas, Chaput, Anstee and many others have a sincere love of
Kerouac's
legacy, the man and his work. Obviously
John Sampas knew Jack.
Don't know if Phil or Rod did or did
not. I can give some ideas for
motivations,
though.
1). Sampas hasn't sold off any items since the
lawsuit was brought (that I'm
aware
of and/or that is publicly known) (and if I'm wrong on that I'm sure
someone
will point it out by calling me a "liar") because Jan and Gerry
focused
public attention on his actions. By
telling the world he was selling
things
off they forced him into a position where he had to curtail that. My
worry
is he's still selling things off, things the world never heard of and
never
will. And if the will is judged to be
forged those items will be lost
forever.
2). Rod Anstee may be embarrassed or feel guilty
because he bought some of
these
items from Sampas. Now I've got no
truck with Rod on this. He's doing
what
collectors do, acquiring things they're interested in. And I would
assume
he bought anything he bought thinking they were legitimate purchases.
Nothing wrong with that, the same way there
is nothing wrong with Jeffrey
Weinberg
acting as a dealer on what I'm sure he believed to be legitimate
transations.
3). I've got no ax to grind with Phil
either. Atilla says he's a good guy
and
I've met Atilla and will accept his vouching for Phil. But if John
Sampas
is a patron of LCK! and Phil's a part of that, it may be a reason why
he's in
Sampas' corner. That and the fact that
he knows John personally and
does
not believe he could be capable of what he's being accused of.
My
question is what are the motivations of so many who are silent? There's
been
enough discussion on this so that everyone should have been able to form
an
opinion. I'm just sorry to see so many
unwilling to voice them. We can
fight
over whether "Pink Floyd Rocks" but we can't fight over this? Saying
it's
"too complicated" is a cop out.
Saying "everybody is dirty" is a cop
out.
Saying it's taking too long is a cop out.
This situation is serious and
saying
"I don't want to be bothered" is not going to make it go away.
Levi
just asked on a message "Why all the pointed energy on this thread?
Does any of this really matter?" That's the Buddhist in him talking.
Well,
it may not matter to old Jack and Jan and Gerard and Gabrielle and
Stella
and Sammy. They're all up there "Safe in Heaven, Dead", probably
looking
down knowing how it's all gonna turn out anyway, laughing at how
we're
all locked into our positions as we cross swords over this.
But
we're all down here on earth, and for the living and for the yet to be
living,
I for one say, "Yeah. It
matters."
Some
things are worth fighting for.
Jerry
Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 13:09:21 GMT
Reply-To: i12bent@sprog.auc.dk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "B. Sorensen"
<i12bent@SPROG.AUC.DK>
Subject: Solomon's Mishaps
On Thu,
15 May 1997 19:50:54 -0400,
Pamela
Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM> wrote:
>In
a message dated 97-05-15 11:44:54 EDT, you write:
>
><<
I'm posting some of his pieces from More Mishaps (City Lights, 1968)
>
that concern themselves with the Beat Generation, and with reading. >>
>
>If
you check out the copyright page that book was first published by Beach
>Books,
Texts & Documents. They also published APO-33 by WSB. I don't believe
>LF
would have touched that book if Claude and Mary hadn't pointed the way.
>I
have fond memories of Carl visiting us here in Cherry Valley. He came to
>fish
at the Committee.
>Pam
Plymell
Thanks
for specifying the publishing history. I found it amusing that
Ferlighetti
published a book containing the lines:
I am somewhat disappointed in
Ferlinghetti. The true Dada would have
been to
have gone across Russia on horseback.
Cheers,
bs
Department
of Languages and Intercultural Studies
Aalborg
University, Denmark
http://www.hum.auc.dk/i12/org/medarb/bent.uk.html
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 15:24:24 +0200
Reply-To: danneman@Update.UU.SE
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Daniel Brdttemark <danneman@UPDATE.UU.SE>
Subject: Re: FROM ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY
FROM ITALY with love.
This
thread reminds me of a discussion we had on the list a while ago
about
Kerouac translating the the french sections in Visions of Cody.
Why
didn't he stick to english?
Why did
he bother to translate them? Mixing languages is interesting
'cause
the translation doesn't say the same thing. The nuances are
different
and some feelings will get lost along the way. I understand
Rinaldo's
dilemma, he wants to say so much but it doesn't come out the
way he
wants it to in english, frustrating. Also when you use a
different
language or dialect you do it for a reason. Everybody will not
understand
it. Some people will bother to figure it out, others will
ignore
it. I think mixing languages in poetry is great, in prose
sometimes
not so great. But where do we draw the line
prose-poetry-listentry-conversation.
Why draw the line anyway.
Tack
for uppmarksamheten. Krama varandra pa listan (: (: (:
Daniel
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 08:06:59 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Jerry's post
I would
like to thank Jerry for the most recent of a series of very
level-headed
summaries of the recent discussion on the list. I'd agree that
in two
years on this list it's by far the most important topic discussed,
perhaps
not the most fun (certainly not the most annoying) but important.
I would
add one thing only. Someone wrote in and said 'let's forget about
all
this estate stuff and just read the books'. Well until the whole damn
lot
goes into public domain what you read and how it's presented and what's
left
out and what is 'removed from print', what is translated and how,
what's
allowed on web sites, what letters are published and how
censored/edited
they are, will be determined by the estate and the
publisher.
So how that estate operates should be a matter of concern to all.
The
publication channel has clearly opened up since Stella Sampas died, but
if it's
true as alleged that the Letters were edited under the estate's
control
that's very sad indeed - but hardly unusual.
Yes, it
is a sad irony of this society that of all the writers whose estate
should
turn out to be problematic, it should be Jack Kerouac's. But that's
not a
good enough reason to just let the matter drop. From my reading of
bios
etc, it would seem that JK really felt he was leaving a great legacy of
writing
to the world, to us, and it's important that those who care try and
influence
as much as possible the best handling of that legacy.
Nick
W-W
**************************************************************************
*Nil
Carborundum Illegitimis*
It's
better to die on your feet than to live on your knees
Nick
Weir-Williams
Director,
Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
List
Manager, chipub listserv
ph: 847 491 8114
fax:
847 491 8150
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 09:30:20 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Something completely different #2
s.a. griffin
wrote:
>
> At
07:51 AM 5/15/97 -0500, david rhaesa wrote:
>
>i enjoyed reading the varied posts from varied voices on the lists. it
>
>seems that the first thread (something #1) is partially devoted to
>
>whether students can handle the material, whether high schools should be
>
>burned and whatnot. this seems a
relevant area to question in the
>
>process of determining whether to work for "incorporation"
(rather than
>
>pushing) beat litearture into the high school curriculum.
>
>
>
>so far, the suggestions of "railroad earth" and "on the
road" have been
>
>mentioned. there are some who feel
that other materials might not make
>
>it by the school boards. that is
probably a concern. it is more likely
>
>that one would be working towards the textbook editors at first.
>
>
>
>so I'm asking a second kind of question in "something completely
>
>different #2". Assuming, that
we did want to put forth some effort in
>
>this direction, what besides "Railroad Earth" would be
recommended
>
>suggestions to encourage being excerpted into Survey Type Readers of
>
>American Literature to provide a "taste" of this rich material.
>
>
>
>i seem to agree that secondary literature courses beyond the initial
>
>survey should be highly optional.
Besides ON ROUTE, what beat materials
>
>seem possible to get on optional readings lists. This question probably
>
>involves considering community standards a bit more. Is Kerouac the
>
>only possible introduction the students could get their hands on in the
>
>classroom? It seems that Burroughs'
material unless excerpted into a
>
>Burroughs' reader for this purpose would be nearly impossible to get
>
>past the moral guard. i'd be
interested in others opinions on what the
>
>best types in each of these categories might be.
>
>
>
>i appreciate y'alls response. this
is not an attempt to jump off the
>
>bridge at Big Sur concerning the "Something #1" thread. I'll take some
>
>time over the next day and begin to think more actively about all the
>
>comments and suggestions made and continue to post to that thread as
>
>well. i am only attempting to
provide two different threads of focus on
>
>this matter.
>
>
>
>david rhaesa
>
>salina kansas
>
>
>
>not sure if i'm persona non-grata at the high school anymore or not.
>
>told the principal he was running a prison and not a school (a result of
>
>a bit of mania and having read too much Ivan Illich on education; and
>
>because it was TRUE). i think i'm
accepted in certain parts of the
>
>building to do some local investigation.
>
>
>
>david rhaesa
>
>
>
>
>
railroad in oct. earth is a winner. how
about watts/beat zen . . . or
>
ferlinghetti: starting from s.f. &
coney island? i don't remember any of
>
these being too rugged for hi school.
maybe even as a period piece for some
>
good discussion mailer's white negro? or how about we on this list come up
>
with some "suitable" stuff and put together some kind of
"anthology" for
>
open study in schools?
hmmmm....... how about it? once again we have an
>
opportunity to be constructive instead destructive with our collective
>
minds/imagination. gee, there's an idea, let's be creative & constructive.
>
ideas like this make me happy. in the words of rodney the king, "can't we
>
all just get along?" great to hear from the younger set with their
opinions
>
and experience. I myself being a card carrying geek/dork in jr. high & high
>
school spent countless hours in the library discovering many great things
>
that nobody taught in class. of course
when really do schools teach one to
>
think?
>
>
xxxooo
>
s.a.
ambitious
thoughts. i wouldn't know much at all
about the practical
matters. the only nightmare that hit me during the
night is that such a
reader
would probably be expected to have something of an answer to the
"ohhhhh
NOOOOO" question. what is beat
generation literature???? i
would
suggest that such a thing be an epilogue and draw from the
previous
rather than a prologue. perhaps the
Holmes thing at the end
too????
it
would be nice if such a reader could include excerpts from "the big 5
or was
it big 15"?..... don't know
whether grouping by individual or by
theme
would make more sense ... something to meditate about i imagine.
i defer
completely to y'all and your expertise in such a project. i'm
more
than willing to attempt to help focus and re-focus matters somewhat
now and
then. my voice would be more of someone
reasonably new to this
subject
matter and perhaps that is a useful one in thinking about the
prospective
audiences.
a
previous suggestion about cultural elements is also something which
could
serve as guides to organizational schemes.
i must
go to the post office for a registered letter.
always get
nervous
about such things.... :)
david
rhaesa
p.s. i still am committed to working through the
notions expressed on
something
completely different #1 in a fairly systematic method of
response
as soon as my brain hits systematic form again. this is
certainly
a more important project for me than giving gerry nicosia
headaches.
Read
while listening to "My Back Pages"
..... :) any letter can use a
soundtrack
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 16:59:53 +0200
Reply-To: smeraldo@iol.it
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ufficio Stampa Teatro Smeraldo
<smeraldo@IOL.IT>
Organization:
Teatro Smeraldo
Subject: THE FALL OF AMERICA
Hello everybody!
This
message to communicate you that on May 21 1997, in Milan (Italy) at
Circolo
Porte Aperte, Via Gian Giacomo Mora 3, there will be a reading
concert
titled "The Fall of America", after Allen Ginsberg's poetic
corpus.
The reading will be accompanied by three great jazz musicians:
Beppe
Aliprandi (alto sax), Daniele Cavallanti (tenor sax) and Tiziano
Tononi
(drums). They will play jazz tunes after Ornette Coleman (free
jazz).
I will be the reader; this one is the last reading concert of
mine
after three previous dedicated to Beat poets (Ferlinghetti, Jones,
Kerouac).
This concert has been performed last May, 2nd in Florence
(Italy)
at City Lights Bookshop, after Lawrence Ferlinghetti's reading.
If
there is someone especially interested in the relationship between
jazz
and Beat poetry, contact me! I will be glad to talk and discuss.
This is
our best way to honorate Allen: his voice will never die...
Love to
everybody,
:.)
Laura
--
Laura
Moja
Ufficio
Stampa
Teatro
Smeraldo
smeraldo.press@iol.it
http:/www4.iol.it/smeraldo
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 11:39:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Dale F. Smith"
<dale@PCANYTHING.COM>
Subject: A mute voice on the Estate Battle
Are we
not pissing on Jack's grave by even worying about all this? This is
against
everything he ever stood for (so far as I've been able to tell.) He
taught
us to be free, to love life and to remember that all of everything we
do is
meaninless in the mind of the universe (allthough I can't say that
*he*
was meaningless in the mind of the universe.)
Do we really care if the
archive
dies (enter the "100 years from now" thingamagig)? Should we be
stressed
out? Isn't a "scholar"
spending hours of the day inside a library
piecing
together his concept of what Kerouac did and why instead of going
outside,
breathing in the air and screaming at the top of his lungs that he
loves
his life defeating everything he learned from Kerouac? Or did he
learn
anything. Maybe what books were on
Jack's shelf when he wrote OTR,
but not
much else. Why would someone buy (for a
high price) ANYTHING that
Kerouac
owned? Did they really understand
him? Would Jack have paid a
million
dollars for Uncle Walt's Raincoat?
Would he have paid a dime?
I do
not mean to belittle the work of Mr. Nicosia and the likes. I think
what
they are doing is good. I would read a
"scholarly" book on the works
of
Kerouac. But I would not loose sleep if
there were no such book. In any
case,
Jack will move on, in the words he left behind, and that is what I
care
about the most.
Dale F.
Smith
dale@pcanything.com
The
darkness drops again; but now I know
That
twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were
vexed to nightmere by a rocking cradle,
And
what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches
towards Bethlehem to be born?
---W.B.
Yeats
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 12:15:51 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Motivations
In a
message dated 97-05-16 08:07:36 EDT, you write:
<<
Some things are worth fighting for. >>
What if
somebody started a fight on the Beat list, and nobody came?
Jul
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 09:31:52 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Jo Grant: A lazy webmaster
At
01:29 AM 5/16/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>Since
it seems to be important to someone that somebody named Johnny Depp
>>did
not pay 50K for a raincoat, how much did he pay?
>
This
question was addressed to a Jeffery Weinberg who makes a point of
indicating
that he thinks it is important that someone named Johnny Deep did
not pay
50,000 for a raincoat.
It was
not addressed to Jo Grant.
>Lazy
webmaster? Nah.
>
>
Not true.
>
>Unskilled,
a novice, more at home with a wheel barrow loaded with paving
>stones
than computer technology, YEH. But not lazy.
>
>Disorganized,
not efficient in allocating my time, YEH. Those for sure. But
>not lazy, and not a webmaster--yet.
>
>You're
taking too much for Granted.
>
>j
grant
>
>
>
>
> BE ON THE WATCH
>for
items stolen from the Keroauc Collection
> O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
>http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
>
>Academic
& Small Press Authors & publishers
> display books free at
> <http://www.bookzen.com>
> 302,443
visitors since July 1, 1996
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 12:47:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: From the mouth of babe
From,
_Heaven & Other Poems_ - Jack Kerouac
a
snippet from:
[BIOGRAPHICAL
RESUME, FALL 1957]
"I
have been writing my heart out all my life, but only
getting
a living out of it now, and the attacks are coming
in
thick. A lot of people are mad and
jealous and bitter and
I only
hope they also can be heard by an expanding
publishing
program the size of Russia's. Because
it's not
a
question of the merit of art, but a question of sponteneity
and
sincerity and joy I say. I would like
everybody in the
world
to tell his full life confession and tell it HIS OWN WAY
(Jack's
caps, not mine) and then we'd have something to
read in
our old age, instead of the hesitations and cavilings
of
"men of letters" with blear faces who only alter words that
the
Angel brought them..."
Jack
Kerouac
~*~*~*~*~*~*~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Interesting
tidbit in regards to the editing of "letters"
etc.
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 12:41:38 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Mitchell
<mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>
Subject: Re: A mute voice on the Estate Battle
In-Reply-To: <199705161539.LAA00675@pcanything.com>
Yeah,
thanks for the Yeats (the Irish Burroughs!) too: The best lack all
conviction,
while the worst are full of passionate intensity. I wasn't
gonna
mention this, but I happen to own a pair of Kerouac's shoes, found at
the
Good Will. My question is, should I try
to walk in them or put them
behind
plexiglass and stare at them for the rest of my life? (I'm fully
capable
of doing either, usually the latter. I
always meant to climb a
mountain,
but have decided to wait until it collapses and step over it.)
John
<Be cool! And if you can't be cool,
don't drool!> M.
>Are
we not pissing on Jack's grave by even worying about all this? This is
>against
everything he ever stood for (so far as I've been able to tell.) He
>taught
us to be free, to love life and to remember that all of everything we
>do
is meaninless in the mind of the universe (allthough I can't say that
>*he*
was meaningless in the mind of the universe.)
Do we really care if the
>archive
dies (enter the "100 years from now" thingamagig)? Should we be
>stressed
out? Isn't a "scholar"
spending hours of the day inside a library
>piecing
together his concept of what Kerouac did and why instead of going
>outside,
breathing in the air and screaming at the top of his lungs that he
>loves
his life defeating everything he learned from Kerouac? Or did he
>learn
anything. Maybe what books were on
Jack's shelf when he wrote OTR,
>but
not much else. Why would someone buy
(for a high price) ANYTHING that
>Kerouac
owned? Did they really understand
him? Would Jack have paid a
>million
dollars for Uncle Walt's Raincoat?
Would he have paid a dime?
>
>I
do not mean to belittle the work of Mr. Nicosia and the likes. I think
>what
they are doing is good. I would read a
"scholarly" book on the works
>of
Kerouac. But I would not loose sleep if
there were no such book. In any
>case,
Jack will move on, in the words he left behind, and that is what I
>care
about the most.
>
>
>Dale
F. Smith
>dale@pcanything.com
>
>The
darkness drops again; but now I know
>That
twenty centuries of stony sleep
>Were
vexed to nightmere by a rocking cradle,
>And
what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
>Slouches
towards Bethlehem to be born?
>
>---W.B.
Yeats
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 12:47:28 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: A mute voice on the Estate Battle
John
Mitchell wrote:
>
>
Yeah, thanks for the Yeats (the Irish Burroughs!) too: The best lack all
>
conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity. I wasn't
>
gonna mention this, but I happen to own a pair of Kerouac's shoes, found at
>
the Good Will. My question is, should I
try to walk in them or put them
> behind
plexiglass and stare at them for the rest of my life? (I'm fully
>
capable of doing either, usually the latter.
I always meant to climb a
>
mountain, but have decided to wait until it collapses and step over it.)
>
>
John <Be cool! And if you can't be
cool, don't drool!> M.
>
i just
got through scribbling JK in every piece of old clothing in the
closet. most was bought at salvation army's and
other thrifts. it
might
have been worn by Jack. it is probably
more likely than the moon
being
made of green cheese ..... please let me sell something in my JK
auction
before the truth gets out :)
david
rhaesa
read
listening to Leonard Cohen "Jazz Police"
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 14:11:55 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: A mute voice on the Estate Battle
In-Reply-To:
<l03020900afa258b65edc@[141.224.144.84]>
On Fri,
16 May 1997, John Mitchell wrote:
>I
wasn't gonna mention this, but I happen to own a pair of Kerouac's shoes,
>found
at the Good Will.
Just
curious: how did you identify them as his?
Speaking
of all things Kerouac, how is it spelled -- is it "Kerouacian,"
like
I've seen on the list as of late, or "Kerouackian"? First time I saw
it
was
with the "ck" and I thought it looked weird & wrong, but now
every time
I see
"Kerouacian" I think it's goofy too -- every time I mentally
pronounce
it
"care-oo-ay-see-en."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 20:22:55 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS (the dark side
of a beet)
In-Reply-To: <9705160710.AA24843@ellensburg.com>
dear
friends beat,
everything
is a-perfect, i'm a-perfect, u're a-perfect,
why the
death of a mosquito is a-perfect? why u are
pulling
the screw in the coffin, dark shame in the ground,
BROTHERS
who loves a beet?, keep my head in the hands, come
faccio
a scrivere ancora e ancora e ancora... Red Charlie
pop up
Parker, red twilight, rosso tramonto veneziano,
i read
JK in american or in italian, how many JK there are
in the
worlds, cage is on the street... Red Cage... go on!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 13:16:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Conspiracies
In-Reply-To:
<970516023952_-1967945910@emout14.mail.aol.com>
On
05-16-97 Jerry Cimino wrote:
>>>
>Discussing
these issues can bring more truth to light!
Bringing more truth
>to
light might have an impact on the situation either before or when it goes
>to
trial.
>
>I
honestly and truly believe we can debate and discuss these issues, and
>maybe
do it with the same sense of "sharing" that we did when AG died. And
>maybe
by doing that we can help preserve Jack's Archives.
>
>That's
what I'm about! I've said it before -
the issue is the archives.
>
>You
know when I was in San Fran a few months ago and saw the OTR scroll for
>the
first time with my own eyes I was mesmerized!
Here I was looking thru
>this
piece of glass at a mythical document that changed my life 20 years ago.
> I
was fascinated! Tears welled up in my
eyes. I read every word I could
>see
on it.
>
>That's
what I'm about. The issue is the
archives.
>
>Gerry
Nicosia isn't fighting for fame and glory.
He's fighting for you. And
>you. And me.
>
>And
like I said before, if we don't do it here on the Beat-L, who will? We
>have
the power to investigate this. Do we
have to be so fractured that we
>can't
stand to look at the truth?
>
>
>Jerry
Cimino
Jerry,
You
have really spelled it out. THE ISSUE IS THE ARCHIVES.
Although
I have never met Gerry Nicosia (I plan to do so at the VVAW
Conference
in Chicago soon) I admire him and will support him as he carries
out Jan
Keroauc's wishes. I will go all the way, for Jan. My relationship
with
her was all telephone, but during her last year we spoke frequently
and
soon became confidants. She was so alone. She spoke of Gerry with
reverence
and told me about how he had helped her again and again--even
during
periods when the pain of her health problems made her impossible to
get
along with.
Jan
told me, "He [Gerry] has never
asked me for anything. He and Ellen
have
always come through for me when I needed help."
There
were times when she would just sit with the phone in her hand and cry.
Shortly
after I added the information about the NYU debacle she asked me if
I would
edit out those parts that described her life when she was younger.
I
called Gerry and asked him if he'd mind if I deleted parts. He pointed
out
that those items were directly from Jan. I knew that, Jan had told me.
But she
wanted to put it behind her. It existed in her book, but at this
point
in her life she didn't want to see it. Gerry agreed. I edited it out.
It made
her happy.
There's
no need for me to reiterate my position on the archives of
historically important writers. I feel as strongly about
the writings of
Meridel
LeSueur as I do Jack Kerouac. I personally own more video taped
material
of Meridel LeSueur than anyone. Sure it cost money of the years to
be
there with a camera, time and money, and I own it. But I've told
Meridel's
family that once I have the video edited and ready for
broadcast--Public
TV wants to show it--everything, masters, dubs, final
product
will be placed, at no cost, with the rest of her collections at the
Minnesota
Historical Society, with copies to U of Iowa Special Collections.
To
place a price-tag on what Meridel gave to me would be disrespectful to
her
memory.
Meridel
belongs to the people. Prolitarian to the core.
Kerouac belongs to the people. Prolitarian to
the core? People with
literary
backgrounds may have things to say about using that word to
describe
him. I'd like to hear more.
Finally,
I have had to make some modifications to my computer system since
connecting
to the Beat List. Every day there is information I am compeled
to save
for future reference. Ideas, insights, opinions--fascinating stuff.
And
what a membership!
Every
day, more people are agreeing that the Kerouac Archives must be
saved.
The Beat-L will be a big part of making it possible.
j grant
BE ON THE WATCH
for
items stolen from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic
& Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
302,443
visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 13:48:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Jo Grant: A lazy webmaster
In-Reply-To: <199705161631.JAA08195@hsc.usc.edu>
>This
question was addressed to a Jeffery Weinberg who makes a point of
>indicating
that he thinks it is important that someone named Johnny Deep did
>not
pay 50,000 for a raincoat.
>
>It
was not addressed to Jo Grant.
Thanks
for the clarification.
jo
BE ON THE WATCH
for
items stolen from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic
& Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
302,443
visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 14:50:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: The editing of Kerouac's Selected
Letters
Dear
Beat-L members:
For
those of you that are concerned about the supposed editing of Kerouac's
letters
by Charters before publication in the Viking Penguin edition, or for
those
of you who may want to delve abit deeper into the topic of possible
censorship
by the JK Estate of the volume of letters -
Rod
Anstee wrote a long review (9-10 pgs) about "Selected Letters",
including
his
research
on editing by Ann Charters. This essay was published as an issue of
the
Water Row Review a few years ago.
If you
would like to receive a free copy of this essay, send me your request
by
email.
This
offer good only while the limited supply lasts.
Thanks
-
Jeffrey
Weinberg
Water
Row Books
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 15:03:14 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The editing of Kerouac's Selected
Letters
Jeffrey,
Please!
I know
we're on opposite sides of the fence on certain issues, but please get
me one
of these. I truly am trying to conduct
my own independent research as
has
been suggested by so many.
Jerry
Cimino
P.O. 48
Monterey,
CA 93940
Thanks,
JC
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 15:50:25 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: The editing of Kerouac's Selected
Letters
At
02:50 PM 5/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Dear
Beat-L members:
>
>For
those of you that are concerned about the supposed editing of Kerouac's
>letters
by Charters before publication in the Viking Penguin edition, or for
>those
of you who may want to delve abit deeper into the topic of possible
>censorship
by the JK Estate of the volume of letters -
>
>Rod
Anstee wrote a long review (9-10 pgs) about "Selected Letters",
including
>his
>research
on editing by Ann Charters. This essay was published as an issue of
>the
Water Row Review a few years ago.
>
>If
you would like to receive a free copy of this essay, send me your request
>by
email.
>This
offer good only while the limited supply lasts.
>
>Thanks
-
>
>Jeffrey
Weinberg
>Water
Row Books
>Hi
Jeff, May I receive a copy? Thanks, Paul....
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 15:42:29 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The editing of Kerouac's Selected
Letters
In a
message dated 97-05-16 15:23:09 EDT, you write:
<<
Jeffrey, Please!
I know we're on opposite sides of the fence
on certain issues, but please
get
me one of these. I truly am trying to conduct my own independent research
as
has been suggested by so many.
>>
Hey,
Jerry:
No
problem, man. I'll put a copy of Anstee's essay in the mail to you today.
JW
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 15:46:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Rod Anstee's essay
I
forgot to mention to the Beat-L:
I need
your snail-mail address to send you Rod's essay on JK's Selected
Letters
book. It is a booklet that we published a few years ago.
Thanks
-
Jeffrey
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 16:04:50 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Conspiracies
At
01:16 PM 5/16/97 -0500, you wrote:
>On
05-16-97 Jerry Cimino wrote:
>>>>
>>Discussing
these issues can bring more truth to light!
Bringing more truth
>>to
light might have an impact on the situation either before or when it goes
>>to
trial.
>>
>>I
honestly and truly believe we can debate and discuss these issues, and
>>maybe
do it with the same sense of "sharing" that we did when AG died. And
>>maybe
by doing that we can help preserve Jack's Archives.
>>
>>That's
what I'm about! I've said it before -
the issue is the archives.
>>
>>You
know when I was in San Fran a few months ago and saw the OTR scroll for
>>the
first time with my own eyes I was mesmerized!
Here I was looking thru
>>this
piece of glass at a mythical document that changed my life 20 years ago.
>>
I was fascinated! Tears welled up in my
eyes. I read every word I could
>>see
on it.
>>
>>That's
what I'm about. The issue is the
archives.
>>
>>Gerry
Nicosia isn't fighting for fame and glory.
He's fighting for you. And
>>you. And me.
>>
>>And
like I said before, if we don't do it here on the Beat-L, who will? We
>>have
the power to investigate this. Do we
have to be so fractured that we
>>can't
stand to look at the truth?
>>
>>
The
truth? The problem with stating the truth is that the truth will get you
blasted,
threatened, ridiculed, and above all, doubted. I sincerely think
the
idea of a conspiracy is ill-founded. The signature on the will looks
like
any of the other items that are from Gabrielle Kerouac's hand AFTER HER
STROKE.
I don't think matching it before she was an invalid is valid and
admittable
as evidence.
>And
it is not fair. I had the liberty of seeing letters and contracts from
the
archive and now I can see what a horrible waste of time this all is. So
there...blast
me. I could care less right now for explanations or ways to
make me
look foolish or branded an arch-criminal. My educated mind tells me
different
than all the propaganda you have been fed. I inquired, I saw, I am
now
convinced. Goodnight all, Regards, Paul Maher of The Kerouac Quarterly...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 12:57:34 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS (the dark
side of a beet)
At
08:22 PM 5/16/97 +0200, you wrote:
>dear
friends beat,
>everything
is a-perfect, i'm a-perfect, u're a-perfect,
>why
the death of a mosquito is a-perfect? why u are
>pulling
the screw in the coffin, dark shame in the ground,
>BROTHERS
who loves a beet?, keep my head in the hands, come
>faccio
a scrivere ancora e ancora e ancora... Red Charlie
>pop
up Parker, red twilight, rosso tramonto veneziano,
>i
read JK in american or in italian, how many JK there are
>in
the worlds, cage is on the street... Red Cage... go on!
>
rinaldo
is
beautiful
eye am
dumb
beet
soup is sweet
john
cage is
is on
the
street
i am
dumb
iam
dumb
iamdumb
dumb
dum
xxxooo
s.a.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 12:57:32 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: A mute voice on the Estate Battle
At
12:41 PM 5/16/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Yeah,
thanks for the Yeats (the Irish Burroughs!) too: The best lack all
>conviction,
while the worst are full of passionate intensity. I wasn't
>gonna
mention this, but I happen to own a pair of Kerouac's shoes, found at
>the
Good Will. My question is, should I try
to walk in them or put them
>behind
plexiglass and stare at them for the rest of my life? (I'm fully
>capable
of doing either, usually the latter. I
always meant to climb a
>mountain,
but have decided to wait until it collapses and step over it.)
>
>John
<Be cool! And if you can't be cool,
don't drool!> M.
>
>
>>Are
we not pissing on Jack's grave by even worying about all this? This is
>>against
everything he ever stood for (so far as I've been able to tell.) He
>>taught
us to be free, to love life and to remember that all of everything we
>>do
is meaninless in the mind of the universe (allthough I can't say that
>>*he*
was meaningless in the mind of the universe.)
Do we really care if the
>>archive
dies (enter the "100 years from now" thingamagig)? Should we be
>>stressed
out? Isn't a "scholar"
spending hours of the day inside a library
>>piecing
together his concept of what Kerouac did and why instead of going
>>outside,
breathing in the air and screaming at the top of his lungs that he
>>loves
his life defeating everything he learned from Kerouac? Or did he
>>learn
anything. Maybe what books were on
Jack's shelf when he wrote OTR,
>>but
not much else. Why would someone buy
(for a high price) ANYTHING that
>>Kerouac
owned? Did they really understand
him? Would Jack have paid a
>>million
dollars for Uncle Walt's Raincoat?
Would he have paid a dime?
>>
>>I
do not mean to belittle the work of Mr. Nicosia and the likes. I think
>>what
they are doing is good. I would read a
"scholarly" book on the works
>>of
Kerouac. But I would not loose sleep if
there were no such book. In any
>>case,
Jack will move on, in the words he left behind, and that is what I
>>care
about the most.
>>
>>
>>Dale
F. Smith
>>dale@pcanything.com
>>
>>The
darkness drops again; but now I know
>>That
twenty centuries of stony sleep
>>Were
vexed to nightmere by a rocking cradle,
>>And
what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
>>Slouches
towards Bethlehem to be born?
>>
>>---W.B.
Yeats
>
>
I have
one of Micheline's grey funky hats that I wear upon occasion.
xxxooo
s.a.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 16:16:36 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ginny Browne <NICO88@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: AG's grave??
In a
message dated 97-05-15 14:17:51 EDT, you write:
> But wherever Louis is buried
newark
NJ.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 16:16:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Conspiracies
Paul,
I
applaud you coming forward to say what you know.
I'm not
here to blast you or ridicule you and certainly not to threaten you.
Help me
here, Paul. Educate me. I have not had the experience of seeing
Gabrielle's
signature either before or after she had a stroke. Convince me
of what
you know! What convinced you? Why do you believe the signature is
legitimate? I'm not doubting you... I simply want to
know your reasons.
Also,
how does this whole concept of Gabrielle's signature jive with what
Nicosia
said two weeks ago about Gabrielle signing checks a year after she
was
dead? As I recall he alleged that Paul
Blake continued to send Gabrielle
money
and somebody was cashing the checks - up to a year or more after she
was
dead. Now I don't know if bank records
still exist to that effect, but
if they
do then you've got to admit a dead woman signing checks makes a
pretty
strong case that somebody was in the habit of signing her name.
Also,
could you or someone else enlighten me as to the details of the stroke?
When,
how severe, etc. Quite frankly if I
heard before that she had had a
stroke
I don't remember it.
I'm not
arguing with you here, Paul. I simply
want to know why what you saw
convinces
you.
Jerry
Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 21:59:08 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mthorn <mthorn@FASTNET.CO.UK>
Subject: Estate Eclipse
It
takes something big to put the redoubtable
Charlie
Plymell in the shade. I have followed
Nicosia's
postings closely. This is a serious
business.
And I believe N. is right to wonder
why
significant parties are not willing to argue
the
point in this forum. It costs nothing to join
Beat-L.
Frankly,
until Ann Charters etc. join the discussion
it's
difficult to take a properly informed position.
When I
wrote my biography of Tennyson, I was
able to
make use of the marvellous Tennyson Centre
at
Lincoln. Not ALL the mss. are there (others are in
Cambridge,
and lots in America), but it does make
scholarly
research easier when things are not too dispersed.
I can't
imagine Ann Charters would want to argue with
that,
so there is obviously more to this than meets the eye
or ear.
Michael
Thorn
mthorn@fastnet.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 18:08:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Truth!
Paul
Maher brought up the concept of Truth earlier.
His
point reminded me of the line from Jesus Christ Superstar -
"But
what is Truth? Is Truth unchanging law?
We both have Truths. Are mine
the
same as yours?" Hosannah
Superstar.....
Truth
is a major issue here. And just like two people can witness an accident
and
describe different versions of the same event, two people of good faith
can see
different Truths when looking at situations like this Estate Battle
and not
be devious, not be coniving and not be crafty.
These
are differences we should discuss, openly and candidly, without
namecalling
and without accusations. And we should
attempt to convince each
other
that one particular version of the Truth might have more vailidity than
another. After all, if six people witness an accident
and five of them say
car A
was at fault and only one insists car B was at fault we might have
reason
to suspect the case against car A is stronger than car B. And if
during
the course of discussion we discover that the one person who blames
car B
also happens to be the brother-in-law or what ever of the driver of car
A then
there might be reason for that person to see things differently than
others
and the case against car A is even stronger.
Truth
can be a two edge sword, however.
Because sometimes people can get
blinded
by the Truth. Sometimes people get so
focused on what they think
should
be everybody's Truth that when the light starts to shine it comes out
that it
is only their version of the Truth.
Case in
point:
I'm
sure a lot of you saw the movie A FEW GOOD MEN. It was out a few years
ago
starring Jack Nicholson as a grizzled old Marine Lifer and Tom Cruise as
a Young
Buck Military Attorney who goes nose to nose with Jack. Demi Moore
was in
there somewhere, and no offense to her but she's a side issue to the
point
here.
The
story concerns itself with the apparent accidental death of some young
guy who
happened to be stationed at Guantanamo which is the base Jack
Nicholson
was in charge of when it happened. The
highlight of the story is
when
everybody flies into Washington DC for the big showdown. Jack Nicholson
swaggers
up to the witness stand, full of bravado and bluster, confident this
young
upstart Cruise can't touch him. After
all, he's been in the military
longer
than Cruise has been alive, he's been in combat, he helped saved the
world
from the commies and Cruise is some wet behind the ears hotshot who's
never
even held a rifle in his hands.
So
Cruise is grilling Nicholson, making a few jabs, not getting anywhere and
ole
Jack's got the jury eating out of his hands.
And Cruise finally, in
desperation
because he's out of tricks, makes a desperate accusation that
could
cost him his career if he's wrong and possibly even land him in the
brig. But he puts it out there anyway, oblivious
to the danger he's placing
himself
in.
"Why
are you asking this, Counselor?" Nicholson asks him.
"Because
I want to know what happened down there!" Cruise shoots back.
"And
why do you need to know that?" Jack cracks snidely.
"Because
I'm after the Truth!" Cruise shouts.
"YOU
CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!" Jack fires back.
And the
courtroom is stunned into silence because now it is evident that
there
is a story to tell, and Nicholson proceeds to tell it, with the full
confidence
that every one will see it his way... see his version of the
Truth. And the Truth does come out and while the
audience and the jury are
sympathetic
with Jack's version of the Truth, they also know he's wrong. His
version
of the Truth is flawed and when he's convicted he can't undertsnd why
- how
can the others not see the Truth he sees?
I'm
wondering how many Jack Nicholsons there may be on this list.
I'm
wondering how many people are convinced their version of the Truth is the
only
version.
Tell
your story. Together with mine and everyone else's maybe we can see
things
more clearly.
Jerry
Cimino