=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 18:25:42 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>

Organization: Calgary Free-Net

Subject:      Re: rants raves and other quandries

In-Reply-To:  <199705230018.RAA29807@hsc.usc.edu>

 

beat-L members

dont you think taht the absurdity of the swallow & etc posts that can be

found lately may be a direct respose to some of the heated nature of the

other posts? one group of authors is fighting & insulting & getting very

heated & upset... the other part is simply joking around & relaxing (in my

opinion) until the conversations relax.

so much heat around these parts

makes it a little hard to want to be part of the soup

yrs

derek

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 20:47:00 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         MORE OXY THAN MORON <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Brad Parker Speaks

 

I thought Brad Parker was one of the stops on the Monopoly game...

 

Dave B.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 17:52:01 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James William Marshall <iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>

Subject:      A Retraction of Sorts

 

The estate controversy _could_ be interesting if people were willing to

periodically report any progress instead of assissinating (sp?) the

character of those involved, which is the way it has boiled down.  I know

that my last posting was harsh but the synopsis of this list I received

before subscribing suggested that literature, not court cases, would be the

topic of discussion.

 

                                                      James M.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 20:56:45 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         MORE OXY THAN MORON <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject:      Re: QUESTIONS?

 

Why did Mr. Sampas cross the road?

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 20:57:50 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         MORE OXY THAN MORON <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject:      Re: MEMORY BABE

 

...to sell another (single) Kerouac item!

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 20:02:49 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: QUESTIONS?

 

MORE OXY THAN MORON wrote:

>

> Why did Mr. Sampas cross the road?

 

let's see ....... hmm...

 

to recruit another prospective conspirator?????

 

to catch a prospective buyer?????

 

to negotiate with the NYPL?????

 

because it wasn't there ?????

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 21:29:45 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      a calm request

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.A32.3.93.970522181440.25850B-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>

 

"cyber table"

 

insulting name calling

and a general accusationary tone

 

messages that offend

or "bother" people

 

finger pointing

and name calling

 

move back &

settle yr disputes alone

 

 

you can speak calmly about the issues

 

please gentlemen & ladies

 

relax,

take a breath,

gather yr thoughts

 

and lets TALK together

WRITE together

COMPOSE together

LAUGH together,

not fight.

 

come on folks

 

thats what i meant.

 

derek beaulieu

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 20:51:02 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: a calm request - and unending conversation

 

Michael Stutz wrote:

>

> "cyber table"

neither round nor square and somewhere

between Merlin's beard

and a 23 year old

waitress at a cafe

near

Lexington

>

> insulting name calling

like

your momma

and my daddy didn't

and this

and that

and my redwagon can

kick your ass

in a pinewood derby

down

desolation peak

 

> and a general accusationary tone

 

>

> messages that offend

> or "bother" people

or raise the hair on the

back of our collective cybernecks

at the cybertable

with

a cyber menu and words spewed out

sunny-side up

at dawn

>

> finger pointing

> and name calling

 

the fans jeer the villains

who duel

from opposite

edges of

a double-edged

cabbage

>

> move back &

> settle yr disputes alone

but remember

that doing so

can bring on blindness

>

> you can speak calmly about the issues

issues is a euphemism

for words on

subjects

that are best used

as

toilet paper

in the woods

>

> please gentlemen & ladies

 

start your engines

but hold

the blows to body slams

and poking eyes

and leave each other's

characters

and the

characters

of those not at the

cyber table

and the cartoon

characters

that dream of such

feuds in

toonsville

visions

out of the

exchanges

>

 

> relax,

> take a breath,

> gather yr thoughts

 

then realize that breathing

beats

bitching

and a wooden nickel

buys a

plate of

sauerkraut at the

diner

in West Dodge

>

> and lets TALK together

> WRITE together

> COMPOSE together

> LAUGH together,

> not fight.

 

Mr. Rogers joins Pee Wee Hermann

in a friendly embrace

with the ghost

of Captain Kangaroo

reminding Mr. Green Jeans

that

kindness and playful

friendship

is the path to

enlightenment

>

> come on folks

let's join in a good round

of row row row

your boat

and

tequila shots

for all at the

cyber-table

on the cyber-house

>

> thats what i meant.

 

that's what i meant to mean

i think

 

david rhaesa

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 19:07:53 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Lisa M. Rabey" <lisar@NET-LINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: rants raves and other quandries

In-Reply-To:  <199705230018.RAA29807@hsc.usc.edu>

 

At 05:18 PM 5/22/97 -0700, you wrote:

>At 03:04 PM 5/22/97 -0700, you wrote:

>

>>This list is 'suppossedly' to be

>>about beat LITERATURE, it is not about Chaput or Nicosia or whomever else

>>is fighting this estate thing.

>

>Hmm, funny statement coming from someone who posted this

>_________________________________

>"erm, premise #2 is wrong, how would a baby get milk from a bottle or its

>mother if it was non-essetial? It can't frightly feed itself with a

>fork/spoon?

>

>ttfn.

>

>lisa

>

>(and if premise 2 is wrong, that makes all the other premises wrong as

>well, as niceness is not necessary ;)"

>______________________________________-

>

>

>In another thread.

>

>Nothing personal, and no complaints about this other swallowing thread, but

>it seems that the rants and gossip you complain about is more related to

>beat stuff than this swallowing thread.

>

>You see what I mean?

>

>Take care, no animosity, just observation and comment.

>

>I like reading the estate battle posts.

>

 

 

Ummm..Im sorry, but I don't fill over 200+ subscribers a day with probably

over 100k of crap about whose a liar, whose fucking who, who is screwed

who, and who believed who about what where and when. Thats great that you

liek to read the posts, but unfortunately, the majority of the list seems

to disagree with you and there has been many polite and unpolite requests

to move all estate battles to another list (ie start your own) so that the

rest of us who use email for other then gossip mills can actually

participate in conversations that can be enjoyed by all.

 

And my little piece that I sent to the list on how to give head is more

beat then fighting over whose a damn liar and who should be sued.

 

 

ttfn.

 

lisa

--

 

Lisa M. Rabey

Internet and Computer Consultant

San Francisco, California

http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye

**************************************

General man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 21:27:07 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: rants raves and other quandries

 

Lisa M. Rabey wrote:

>

> And my little piece that I sent to the list on how to give head is more

> beat then fighting over whose a damn liar and who should be sued.

 

I believe this is finally something which can be called TRUTH.

 

david rhaesa

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 19:29:46 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: pop quiz

 

Marie Countryman wrote:

>

> what is the sound of one ego clapping?

 

or the sound of an ego with the clap?

 

a elf

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 22:35:58 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: a calm request

In-Reply-To:  Message of Thu, 22 May 1997 18:21:27 -0600 from

              <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>

 

Derek's point is well taken.  Let's all try to discuss our issues with civility

, at least publicly.  If you want to insult someone personally, take it off the

 list.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 19:57:35 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: rants raves and other quandries

 

Derek A. Beaulieu wrote:

>

> beat-L members

> dont you think taht the absurdity of the swallow & etc posts that can be

> found lately may be a direct respose to some of the heated nature of the

> other posts? one group of authors is fighting & insulting & getting very

> heated & upset... the other part is simply joking around & relaxing (in my

> opinion) until the conversations relax.

> so much heat around these parts

> makes it a little hard to want to be part of the soup

> yrs

> derek

 

Derek,

 

That's my take.  The estate posts are producing all heat and no light. I

love a good fight, but this one drones on forever.  The worst period of

the list in my 1 1/2 years. The RW war is nothing along side this one.

 

Personally I would rather talk about blowjobs

 

Pull my daisy, or whatever's handy

 

J Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 23:07:26 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Time magazine-Kerouac  ....and Life

 

Phil,

 

        Thanks for the tip-off about the Time Magazine article. Do you know

what the date of the issue was?  Also, someone else mentioned articles that

appeared in Life magazine during the fifties about the Beats. If that person

recognizes themselves I'd like a tip to the date/writer of the article.

Specifically, I wondered if the article(s) in Life might have been written

by Loudon Wainwright II.

 

        Many thanks.

 

                Antoine

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

     "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"

                        -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 23:29:34 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Beat List T-Shirt Update

 

Dear Beat-L members:

 

I spoke with S. Clay Wilson today..the artwork for our t-shirt will be ready

next week.

I will post the artwork for you to check out on our new Water Row Books web

site

(still under construction) but I'll give you all the temporary address when I

get the artwork up.

 

The shirt should be ready to ship within the month so ordering information,

price, etc. will be posted on the list as well...

 

If you are new to the list and want to know more about the Beat-L Tshirt

designed by Subterranean artist, S. Clay Wilson, Here's the story:

 

Back just before Easter 1997, a discussion came up on the Beat-L about the

famous 1987 "River City Reunion" that took place in Lawrence,Kansas. Beat

writers, musicians, artists and others came to the Univ of Kansas, Lawrence

to

rap, play, perform and discuss culture in America...S. Clay Wilson designed a

great logo for the event that was used on posters, programs, and Tshirts.

 

Meanwhile, S. Clay Wilson was lurking on the Beat-L, an Easter weekend guest

of Beat/Hippie/Radical Conservative Poet Charlie Plymell, who, with wife,

Pam, runs

Cherry Valley Editions, tres cool avant-garde publishing company in upstate

NY.

Wilson got on the list and said hello....I suggested that Wilson draw a Beat

ListT-shirt for us...I offered on behalf of Water Row Books as sponsor to put

up the bread to get the shirt done and then sell them to Beat-L members at

cost...So here's where we are now - the artwork will be finished in a few

days hopefully and I'll let everyone know the cost and other details. The

shirt can be checked out then at the new Water Row Books web site (address to

follow) -

 

By the way, S. Clay Wilson found a box of original River City Reunion posters

and programs from the 1987 event. He signed them all and sent them to me here

at Water Row. The poster is printed on a nice heavy stock and is approx. 16"

x 20" -

a perfect size to frame. It features Wilson's great logo of a cowpoke-type

guy dancing around with another Beat poet-type who looks alot like Allen

Ginsberg. Great colorful

Wilson artwork. The poster also lists the dates for the event as well as the

participants that included Burroughs, Ginsberg, Robert Frank, Jim Carroll,

Husker Du, many many more....

 

The River City Reunion program also features the logo in full color plus the

detailed

schedule of events, bios of each participant, event location, etc. Wilson

also signed each program front cover...

 

For the very small price of $25.00, you can get a set of one signed poster

and one signed program. If you only want the poster or program by itself, the

price is $15.00 for the one item. The programs are in near mint condition and

the posters are in very fine condition. The posters have a little corner wear

or wrinkling from age (ten years old already!), For Beat-L members, I'll pay

the shipping.

MC/Visa accepted. Satisfaction guaranteed. Both posters and programs now in

stock...Offer good only while limited supply lasts....

 

Thanks -

 

Jeffrey Weinberg

Water Row Books

PO Box 438

Sudbury MA 01776

Tel 508-485-8515

Fax 508-229-0885

EMail Waterrow@aol.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 23:51:44 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      the list

 

This is not to appease the forces to be but to appease you and me.... :)

 

(Provided courtesy of John Sampas, Literary Executor of the Estate of John

and Stella Kerouac and Phil Chaput who is not an employee of Mr. John

Sampas, just a friend) and my wife who let me stay on the computer this long

to type this long ass list...  again :)

 

(a more complete list including dates of deposit will be published in The

Kerouac Quarterly (Vol. I, No. 2) available soon)

 

Here goes....

 

Maggie Cassidy (unused section), 45-page hoograph ms.

 

The Happy Truth 10-page holograph ms.: plus Ecstacy of Life and Death, 2

1/2-page holograph ms.; plus The Blessedness Surely to be Believed, 7-page

holograph ms. -- together in 1 notebook.

 

Buddha Tells Us or Wake Up. 50 - page holograph ms.; plus The Essential

Mind. 81-page holograph ms. -- together in 1 notebook.

 

Some of the Dharma. 1332-page holograph ms. in 11 notebooks; plus 385-page

typescript.

 

5 JK letters: 2 page letter to his mother, dated March 1943; 1-page TLS to

Sebastian Sampas, dated 1943; 1-page TLS (with holograph postscript) to his

sister, Nin, dated 1947; 2-page TLS (with holograph notes to Tal, Mr. Win,

Miss James et al, dated August 1952; 2-page letter to the editors of Time

magazine, dated 1961.

 

Moore of Myself. A Sonnet. 2-page holograph ms. dated 1943.

 

Passing Through. 615 page holograph ms. in 10 notebooks.

 

Mexico City Blues. 451-page holograph ms. in 5 notebooks; plus 121-page

typescript. Included in the notebooks are the following:

          151 pages of material for Tristessa, the complete first book.

          13-page fragment entitled "Statue of Christ" from Lonesome Traveler.

          1-page letter to J.C. Holmes.

          1-page prose note.

          1/2-page prose note entitled "Hunan Road Sacrifice."

          2-page intro. to mexico City Blues differing from the published

version.

          3 1/2 page section from Book of Dreams.

          1-page section from Book of Dreams.

          1-page essay entitled, "Statue of saint Joseph."

          1-page work on Dharma.

          1-page section from Some of the Dharma.

          16-page essay entitled, "Break on the Railroad."

          1-page note on Buddhism.

          5-page essay on the "Practice of Dhyana."

          1-page essay on the Tao.

 

"More Mexico City Blues, Washington DC Blues. Poems 1957." Original

notebook, approx. 55 pages.

 

"Poems All Sizes..." manuscript notebook, approx. 93 pages.

 

"San Francisco Blues." 73-page typescript.

 

Sebastian Sampas to Jack Kerouac. 12 ALS, 60 pages (including 1page of

typescript), dated 1940 to 1941.

 

Gabrielle Kerouac to JK. 33 ALS, 125 pages (dated 1942 - '43 in Kerouac's hand).

 

Mary Carney to JK. 17 ALS, 53 pages, no date (3 letters are dated 1954 in

Keoruac's hand). One letter with a pencil notation by Kerouac.

 

JK. 1-page pencil drawing in form of a letter.

 

(I will abbreviate from hereon until noted later)

 

10 letters from JK to Sebastian Sampas.

 

11 postcards from JK to S. Sampas

 

16 letters from Jack kerouac to Stella Sampas

 

17 postcards from JK to Stella Sampas

 

(here is complete listing as indicated to me)

 

Book of Dreams 1955-page holograph in 11 notebooks (plus 2 loose pages)

 

Notes for Dr.Sax, On the Road, The History of Bop; plus Maggie Cassidy,

approx. 250-page holograph manuscript. -- together in 4 notebooks.

 

"Benzedrine Vision. Mexico City 1952, Mexico Thieves Markey. Memoirs of a

Bebopper." 84-page holograph ms. in 1 notebook.

 

Tics. 50 page holograph ms. in 1 notebook.

 

Beat Generation. A Play. Acts I and II. 146-page holograph ms. in 1

notebook; plus 5-page typescript.

 

Book of Sketches. Approx. 1200-page holograph ms. in 15 notebooks.

 

Satori In Paris. 300-page holograph ms. in 3 spiral notebooks; plus 5

working notebooks (1961-1965)containing approx. 430 pages of holgraph ms.

 

(abbreviated here from list)

 

8 misc. items of Kerouac material (letters to friends, a poem, notes a

"dialogue between three friends")

 

16 different items of misc. material related to Jack (letters from Gabrielle

to stella, letters from Helen Mansfield to Mrs. Sampas, Sebastian Sampas

letters to Kerouac etc.)

 

Now, keep in mind, all the smaller items when explained in detail takes up

to 8-pages. More deposits to the Berg collection are forthcoming. This list

is evidence that the estate selling items off piecemeal are unsubstantiated

rumors. Those items sold lend no significance to Kerouac scholarship. All of

the detractors of the Kerouac Estate, if they are man enough with integrity

should apologize to John Sampas for making such unfounded claims. I hope

this list helps.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 23:39:37 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: QUESTIONS?

 

RACE --- wrote:

 

> MORE OXY THAN MORON wrote:

> >

> > Why did Mr. Sampas cross the road?

>

> let's see ....... hmm...

>

> to recruit another prospective conspirator?????

>

> to catch a prospective buyer?????

>

> to negotiate with the NYPL?????

>

> because it wasn't there ?????

 

 Yo, Race,

 

I finally made it here.  But the first two posts are about the estate

and yours about Sampras.  Please back channel me and let me know what is

up.  Can I ask you about the Celtics here?  ;-)

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 22:44:58 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: rants raves and other quandries

 

Derek A. Beaulieu wrote:

>

> beat-L members

> dont you think taht the absurdity of the swallow & etc posts that can be

> found lately may be a direct respose to some of the heated nature of the

> other posts? one group of authors is fighting & insulting & getting very

> heated & upset... the other part is simply joking around & relaxing (in my

> opinion) until the conversations relax.

> so much heat around these parts

> makes it a little hard to want to be part of the soup

> yrs

> derek

 oh of course your right, but i didn't understand and took the

directions to heart and now have my own beat following.

patricia, whoes credentials stand up

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 23:48:31 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Wow!

 

Like man, wow!  I just subscribed and almost all the first posts I

receive, except the tee shirt post, thanks for that one, are about

hostility over what?  Is there a place that archives these posts so that

I can catch up on this.

 

What about a thread?

 

Has this list explored the ancestors to the beats?  I see a "line" from

Thoreau (sp) vs Emerson;  Wolfe vs  ????, Kerouac vs Vidal, Dylan vs

anyone, etc.  There seems to be a thread that runs through "beat" side

of literature that is inherited into and by working class poets. Has

anyone studied or considered who are its predecessors.  Like Gertrude

Stein ?  the Bohemians?  I am just curious.

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 23:50:58 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: MEMORY BABE

 

MORE OXY THAN MORON wrote:

 

> ...to sell another (single) Kerouac item!

 

 I wish I wasn't so curious, but what is all this about?

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 20:21:13 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: rants raves and other quandries

 

>I am ashamed to say that this list has deterioted to nothing but a showing

>of whose has a bigger ego, and for that alone, all those involved should be

>ashamed.

>>--

>

>Lisa M. Rabey

>Internet and Computer Consultant

>San Francisco, California

>http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye

>**************************************

>General man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.

>

>

Lisa,        May 22, 1997

 

        I appreciate what all of you are saying, but it is not your

professionalism that is under attack here--it is mine.

        I spend six years working my ass off to write what William S.

Burroughs called "the best of the many books about Jack Kerouac's life and

work," and I am accused of running around the country making xeroxes of

Kerouac letters so I can sell them for "cold, hard cash."

        That stuff is pretty hard to take.  And the people who are making

those accusations know full well how bogus they are.  Nor have they spent

the years writing, teaching, and lecturing about Kerouac, as I have (Mr.

Anstee has self-published a few pieces and given a talk or two; Mr. Chaput

has done none of the above).

        They have deliberately muddied the water, so that the real

discussion of preserving Jack Kerouac's literary archive would get off

point, and they have done their best to see that it has never gotten back on

point.  This is the dirtiest kind of play, and if we were on the basketball

court, these guys would all have been thrown out on technical fouls two

weeks ago.

        Unfortunately, we don't have any trained literary refs around here.

Cimino has tried, but they've elbowed and head-butted him to helplessness too.

        I expect the dirty play to continue, but I'm agreeing to back off,

since that's what the majority appears to want.

        The only bad taste I have left is that the other guys have

"won"--they got what they wanted, which was to kill an honest discussion of

what should be done with Jack Kerouac's papers.  They have never allowed

such a discussion to take place, ANYWHERE.  When Jan Kerouac asked for five

minutes to talk about it at NYU, the year before she died, they dragged her

out with police.

        They can't use police here, just threats of lawsuits and all this

other shit.  So once again truth is the first casualty.

        Peace everyone, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 23:02:31 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: QUESTIONS?

 

R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

>

> RACE --- wrote:

>

> > MORE OXY THAN MORON wrote:

> > >

> > > Why did Mr. Sampas cross the road?

> >

> > let's see ....... hmm...

> >

> > to recruit another prospective conspirator?????

> >

> > to catch a prospective buyer?????

> >

> > to negotiate with the NYPL?????

> >

> > because it wasn't there ?????

>

>  Yo, Race,

>

> I finally made it here.  But the first two posts are about the estate

> and yours about Sampras.  Please back channel me and let me know what is

> up.  Can I ask you about the Celtics here?  ;-)

>

> Peace,

>

> Bentz

 

Howdy and welcome.

 

i can try and dig around and send you some "choice" excerpts from the

GREAT ESTATE KONTROVERSY backchannel but it could be next week and if i

forget remind me ... imagine a court battle over Bill Russell's old

shoes and Auerbach's cigar butts with a literary flair and you'll have

the gist of it.

 

we better not talk to much Celtics over here.  i have most of that list

on the auto-delete function right now until after draft date only you

and Dorine P. don't get nuked right now.

 

otherwise my suggestion would be to lurk a bit and if something seems

especially incomprehensible feel free to backchannel me.

 

david rhaesa

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 22:58:00 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: Beat List T-Shirt Update

 

Jeffrey Weinberg wrote:

>

> Dear Beat-L members:

>

> I spoke with S. Clay Wilson today..the artwork for our t-shirt will be ready

> next week.

> I will post the artwork for you to check out on our new Water Row Books web

> site

> (still under construction) but I'll give you all the temporary address when I

> get the artwork up.

>

> The shirt should be ready to ship within the month so ordering information,

> price, etc. will be posted on the list as well...

>

> If you are new to the list and want to know more about the Beat-L Tshirt

> designed by Subterranean artist, S. Clay Wilson, Here's the story:

>

> Back just before Easter 1997, a discussion came up on the Beat-L about the

> famous 1987 "River City Reunion" that took place in Lawrence,Kansas. Beat

> writers, musicians, artists and others came to the Univ of Kansas, Lawrence

> to

> rap, play, perform and discuss culture in America...S. Clay Wilson designed a

> great logo for the event that was used on posters, programs, and Tshirts.

>

> Meanwhile, S. Clay Wilson was lurking on the Beat-L, an Easter weekend guest

> of Beat/Hippie/Radical Conservative Poet Charlie Plymell, who, with wife,

> Pam, runs

> Cherry Valley Editions, tres cool avant-garde publishing company in upstate

> NY.

> Wilson got on the list and said hello....I suggested that Wilson draw a Beat

> ListT-shirt for us...I offered on behalf of Water Row Books as sponsor to put

> up the bread to get the shirt done and then sell them to Beat-L members at

> cost...So here's where we are now - the artwork will be finished in a few

> days hopefully and I'll let everyone know the cost and other details. The

> shirt can be checked out then at the new Water Row Books web site (address to

> follow) -

>

> By the way, S. Clay Wilson found a box of original River City Reunion posters

> and programs from the 1987 event. He signed them all and sent them to me here

> at Water Row. The poster is printed on a nice heavy stock and is approx. 16"

> x 20" -

> a perfect size to frame. It features Wilson's great logo of a cowpoke-type

> guy dancing around with another Beat poet-type who looks alot like Allen

> Ginsberg. Great colorful

> Wilson artwork. The poster also lists the dates for the event as well as the

> participants that included Burroughs, Ginsberg, Robert Frank, Jim Carroll,

> Husker Du, many many more....

>

> The River City Reunion program also features the logo in full color plus the

> detailed

> schedule of events, bios of each participant, event location, etc. Wilson

> also signed each program front cover...

>

> For the very small price of $25.00, you can get a set of one signed poster

> and one signed program. If you only want the poster or program by itself, the

> price is $15.00 for the one item. The programs are in near mint condition and

> the posters are in very fine condition. The posters have a little corner wear

> or wrinkling from age (ten years old already!), For Beat-L members, I'll pay

> the shipping.

> MC/Visa accepted. Satisfaction guaranteed. Both posters and programs now in

> stock...Offer good only while limited supply lasts....

>

> Thanks -

>

> Jeffrey Weinberg

> Water Row Books

> PO Box 438

> Sudbury MA 01776

> Tel 508-485-8515

> Fax 508-229-0885

> EMail Waterrow@aol.com

 

oooh gooood

thanks jeff, i appreciate you.  I think the cowboy look for burroughs

was because the river city reunion was (i believe)the same year wsb took

to wearing jeans rather than east coast slacks all the time. they looked

good on him too. very kansan

p

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 21:08:16 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: rants raves and other quandries

 

>

>Ummm..Im sorry, but I don't fill over 200+ subscribers a day with probably

>over 100k of crap about whose a liar, whose fucking who, who is screwed

>who, and who believed who about what where and when. Thats great that you

>liek to read the posts, but unfortunately, the majority of the list seems

>to disagree with you and there has been many polite and unpolite requests

>to move all estate battles to another list (ie start your own) so that the

>rest of us who use email for other then gossip mills can actually

>participate in conversations that can be enjoyed by all.

 

Given that there are 200 people on the list (according to your post) and

there have been a few complaints about "the fight", i cannot see how you

can know a majority of the list agrees.

 

But, aside from this claim, I feel sad at this attitude.

 

Your statement above is the same as those who banned howl so many years ago.

 

Just cause you and a majority are offended by something you want to ban it.

The cry of the censors througout history.

 

best wishes to you,

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 21:14:30 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: the list

 

>

>Now, keep in mind, all the smaller items when explained in detail takes up

>to 8-pages. More deposits to the Berg collection are forthcoming. This list

>is evidence that the estate selling items off piecemeal are unsubstantiated

>rumors. Those items sold lend no significance to Kerouac scholarship. All of

>the detractors of the Kerouac Estate, if they are man enough with integrity

>should apologize to John Sampas for making such unfounded claims. I hope

>this list helps.

>

 

Dear Paul,       May 22, 1997

 

        I owe no one an apology.  This is essentially the same list that

librarian Rodney Phillips gave me 3 years ago.  He told me he couldn't

remember any of it coming directly from Mr. Sampas.  If that was an error,

then blame Mr. Phillips.  I met with him, I queried him, I did my best to

learn the truth.

        Almost nothing has been added since then.  Why should I believe your

(or Mr. Sampas's) assurance that "more deposits are forthcoming"?  What?  A

few more xeroxes?

        Where are the manuscripts of ON THE ROAD, DR. SAX, THE

SUBTERRANEANS, VISIONS OF CODY, VISIONS OF GERARD, THE DHARMA BUMS, VANITY

OF DULUOZ, the rest of DESOLATION ANGELS, most of LONESOME TRAVELLER, and so

many more published and unpublished (THE SEA IS MY BROTHER, AND THE HIPPOS

WERE BOILED IN THEIR TANKS!, SECRET MULLINGS ABOUT BILL, etc. etc.)  Where

are the tapes, and photos, and books from Kerouac's library?  Where are the

twenty years of daily breast pocket notebooks?

        Where is Kerouac's complete file of correspondence, with all the

greats, Ferlinghetti, McClure, and hundreds of other major writers he

corresponded with?

        Where are the galleys and multiple typed drafts of the different books?

        And stop saying "unsubstantiated rumors" of Sampas selling off

pieces of the archive.  A dozen different dealers and collectors have

testified to buying stuff, and I've held plenty of pieces in my own hands.

Ann Charters bought some pieces for herself.  Jeffrey Weinberg has attested

to the hundreds of items he sold off.  He's occasionally disputed the price

things sold for, or whether a drawing was art versus just a sketch.  He's

never said he wasn't Sampas's main dealer from 1991-1993, and that he didn't

issue catalogues of items from the Kerouac archive, and that he didn't have

plenty of buyers..

        I appreciate the fact that Mr. Sampas is helping you with your new

magazine, KEROUAC QUARTERLY, but the biggest service you could do for

Kerouac scholarship right now is to ask:

        WHEN IS MR. SAMPAS REALLY GOING TO PUT THE KEROUAC ARCHIVE ON

DEPOSIT IN A LIBRARY?  THE FULL ARCHIVE?

        Best, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 00:34:00 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: rants raves and other quandries

 

Gerald Nicosia wrote:

 

> >I am ashamed to say that this list has deterioted to nothing but a

> showing

> >of whose has a bigger ego, and for that alone, all those involved

> should be

> >ashamed.

> >>--

> >

> >Lisa M. Rabey

> >Internet and Computer Consultant

> >San Francisco, California

> >http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye

> >**************************************

> >General man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.

> >

> >

> Lisa,        May 22, 1997

>

>         I appreciate what all of you are saying, but it is not your

> professionalism that is under attack here--it is mine.

>         I spend six years working my ass off to write what William S.

> Burroughs called "the best of the many books about Jack Kerouac's life

> and

> work," and I am accused of running around the country making xeroxes

> of

> Kerouac letters so I can sell them for "cold, hard cash."

 

<snip>My favorite biography is Memory Babe by this poster.  The love and

care that went into the book are very evident.  But I am picking up here

withing these very few hours on the list that Mr. Nicosia has been

accused of something that he says is not true.  From all I know of him,

and I have spoken with him on the telephone, but that has nothing to do

with this comment, he has done a very good and appreciated work.

 

Somewhere recently I ran into a site on the internet/www that had an

article about Jan Kerouac, the Sampras fellow and the scene where Jan

was arrested while Ginsburg tended to embarass himself by failing to aid

his Goddaughter.  I suppose now I am getting to understand the gest of

this thread.

 

As an attorney, I would like to remind anyone who posts accusations

against another, like those that Nicosia is selling Kerouac's letters,

that if those remarks are not true, they can be liable for slander.

Further, if it interfers with his business, they may be liable for that

interferance as well.  Therefore,  I would want anyone making such

accusations to remember that just because you are sitting behind a

computer teminal, doesn't mean you can say anything you want to say.

And if you do it for ulterior motives, you may regret the day you said

it, because there are lots of lawyers who don't have anything better to

do than to sue you!!!  :-)

 

Mr. Nicosia has published a great work and since he apparantly posts to

this list, I for one want to hear what he has to say.  If on the other

hand, there is evidence that he is in this only to make a quick buck off

Jack Kerouac, then, I would like to know about that.

 

A question that I have is are these persons, Anstee and Chaput in any

way connected with Samprass?  If so, their comments would be highly

suspect.  Any man who would have Kerouac's daughter arrested and dragged

out of a public meeting instead of giving her the microphone does not

seem right to me.

 

I think we all have a great interest in the discussion of Kerouac's life

work and his papers.  Noone should be allowed to chill that.

 

Hey, Mr. Nicosia, give me a call, I can't advertise here, but uhhh, you

know, I am a lawyer.

 

>         They have deliberately muddied the water, so that the real

> discussion of preserving Jack Kerouac's literary archive would get off

>

> point, and they have done their best to see that it has never gotten

> back on

> point.  <snip basketball>

>         The only bad taste I have left is that the other guys have

> "won"--they got what they wanted, which was to kill an honest

> discussion of

> what should be done with Jack Kerouac's papers.  They have never

> allowed

> such a discussion to take place, ANYWHERE.  When Jan Kerouac asked for

> five

> minutes to talk about it at NYU, the year before she died, they

> dragged her

> out with police.

 

Well, I for one would like to hear about Kerouac's papers and why they

are not accessible.  What I understand is that Sampress has made threats

to sue the University if they let people see the papers.  If so, then I

have another reason to dislike Sampress from the get go.  But, I am

asking because I would like to know.   Does someone besides Mr. Nicosia

know about this.  Has it chilled the discussion.  If so, why would a

column about beats be intimidated?  Stange indeed.

 

>         They can't use police here, just threats of lawsuits and all

> this

> other shit.  So once again truth is the first casualty.

 

It doesn't have to be.  I sure would like to know more about this.  Man,

I love Jack Kerouac's work.  That is why I have signed onto the list.

As you all can see, I don't have enough sense to keep my nose out of

someone else's business.

 

>         Peace everyone, Gerry Nicosia

 

 

Peace,

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 00:44:07 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject:      Re: Time magazine-Kerouac  ....and Life

 

At 11:07 PM 5/22/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Phil,

>

>        Thanks for the tip-off about the Time Magazine article. Do you know

>what the date of the issue was?  Also, someone else mentioned articles that

>appeared in Life magazine during the fifties about the Beats. If that person

>recognizes themselves I'd like a tip to the date/writer of the article.

>Specifically, I wondered if the article(s) in Life might have been written

>by Loudon Wainwright II.

>

>        Many thanks.

>

>                Antoine

> Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

>

>     "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"

>                        -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

>

>All it said was spring 97 but I'm sure it's still on the shelf at the big

bookstores like B and N. I was checking it out at the doctors office. I want

to pick one up myself for my archive(oops did I say that word) sorry. My 15

year old son was quite impressed because he's always calling me a Kerowacko

and it was like "See I told you so." Phil

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 20:04:52 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Last Gasp

 

Michael L. Buchenroth wrote:

>

> Thanks to a BEAT-L post a few weeks back, I snail mailed Last Gasp for a

> catalog. I received my fantastic Spring 1997 Last Gasp catalog yesterday.

> In it, they list their web site, www.lastgasp.com

> Here they have a large online catalog with S. Clay Wilson, R Crumb, 13

> ZAP Comix reprints for $2.95 each, Tim Leary comics, a huge selection of

> books and comics, etc etc etc. complete with a running slide show

> highlighting their wares. I want to share this fantastic web site with

> BEAT-L readers!

 

 

Michael

 

Could you reprint the URL on this one.  Maybe I was instantly deleting

Estate posts and missed something interesting

 

James

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 21:58:23 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James William Marshall <iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>

Subject:      For R. Bentz Kirby

 

Mr. Kirby,

     I'm also relatively new to this list.  The estate controversy involves

Kerouac, a potentially forged will, the whereabouts and alleged sales of

Kerouac's letters and manuscripts, who possesses the legal right to have

said documents and any legal tender generated from their sale, who is right

and who is wrong, who has evidence and who doesn't, the value of xeroxes,

the wisdom of participants discussing a pending legal matter in a public

forum and a small South-American tribe named "Sicofitall".  I'm sure the

participants will fill you in further.  I dread that they will use this

forum.  Anyway, welcome.

 

                                                      James M.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 01:15:55 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: rants raves and other quandries

 

>As an attorney, I would like to remind anyone who posts accusations

>against another, like those that Nicosia is selling Kerouac's letters,

>that if those remarks are not true, they can be liable for slander.

HOW ABOUT THE SAMPASES SELLING THE ESTATE "PIECEMEAL"..IS THAT NOT SLANDER?

 

>Further, if it interfers with his business, they may be liable for that

>interferance as well.  Therefore,  I would want anyone making such

>accusations to remember that just because you are sitting behind a

>computer teminal, doesn't mean you can say anything you want to say.

>And if you do it for ulterior motives, you may regret the day you said

>it, because there are lots of lawyers who don't have anything better to

>do than to sue you!!!  :-)

>

>Mr. Nicosia has published a great work and since he apparantly posts to

>this list, I for one want to hear what he has to say.

******DONT WORRY YOU WILL.....

 If on the other

>hand, there is evidence that he is in this only to make a quick buck off

>Jack Kerouac, then, I would like to know about that.

>

>A question that I have is are these persons, Anstee and Chaput in any

>way connected with Samprass?  If so, their comments would be highly

>suspect.

*****WHY? CAN HE NOT HAVE FRIENDS WHO STICK UP FOR HIM?

 Any man who would have Kerouac's daughter arrested and dragged

>out of a public meeting instead of giving her the microphone does not

>seem right to me.

THE WORLD ISN'T FAIR EITHER...

>

>I think we all have a great interest in the discussion of Kerouac's life

>work and his papers.  Noone should be allowed to chill that.

>

>Hey, Mr. Nicosia, give me a call, I can't advertise here, but uhhh, you

>know, I am a lawyer.

>

 

>

>Well, I for one would like to hear about Kerouac's papers and why they

>are not accessible.  What I understand is that Sampress

****IT IS "SAMPAS"...GET THE SPELLING AS WELL AS THE FACTS STARIGHT BEFORE

YOU TAKE SIDES...

has made threats

>to sue the University if they let people see the papers.  If so, then I

>have another reason to dislike Sampress from the get go.

I THINK YOU REALLY NEED TO DO YOUR HOMEWORK.

  But, I am

>asking because I would like to know.   Does someone besides Mr. Nicosia

>know about this.  Has it chilled the discussion.  If so, why would a

>column about beats be intimidated?  Stange indeed.

>

>>         They can't use police here, just threats of lawsuits and all

>> this

>> other shit.  So once again truth is the first casualty.

>AND SO MY WORDS WILL BE A TESTAMENT TO THAT AS YOU WILL SEE..

>It doesn't have to be.  I sure would like to know more about this.  Man,

>I love Jack Kerouac's work.  That is why I have signed onto the list.

>As you all can see, I don't have enough sense to keep my nose out of

>someone else's business.

 

 

 

 

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 22:01:56 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Beat List T-Shirt Update

 

Jeffrey Weinberg wrote:

>

> Dear Beat-L members:

>

> I spoke with S. Clay Wilson today..the artwork for our t-shirt will be ready

> next week.

> I will post the artwork for you to check out on our new Water Row Books web

> site

 

 

Jeffery-

 

Looking forward to the shirt, it brings back calmer times.

 

Who knows, if you had started this later S. Clay would have had to do

John Sampas as Capt. Pissgums and Gerry Nicosia as Ruby the Dyke.

 

J Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 01:17:59 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: the list

 

>        Where are the manuscripts of ON THE ROAD (on deposit)

, DR. SAX (

, THE

>SUBTERRANEANS, VISIONS OF CODY, VISIONS OF GERARD, THE DHARMA BUMS, VANITY

>OF DULUOZ,

the rest of DESOLATION ANGELS  (Passing Through is on the list, 615-pages worth

) most of LONESOME TRAVELLER, and so

>many more published and unpublished

(THE SEA IS MY BROTHER, AND THE HIPPOS

>WERE BOILED IN THEIR TANKS!, SECRET MULLINGS ABOUT BILL, etc. etc.)

********JUVENALIA NOVELS WILL BE PUBLISHED IN THE FUTURE

Where

>are the tapes, and photos, and books from Kerouac's library?  Where are the

>twenty years of daily breast pocket notebooks?

********NOTEBOOKS ARE DUE TO BE PUBLISHED LATER

>        Where is Kerouac's complete file of correspondence, with all the

>greats, Ferlinghetti, McClure, and hundreds of other major writers he

>corresponded with? RETAINED FOR SELECTED LETTERS II

>        Where are the galleys and multiple typed drafts of the different books?

> ***********Who cares right now? They will get there in time....

 

 I appreciate the fact that Mr. Sampas is helping you with your new

>magazine, KEROUAC QUARTERLY, ( ********my inquiry and his help is for the

fans not my newsletter)

but the biggest service you could do for

>Kerouac scholarship right now is to ask:

>        WHEN IS MR. SAMPAS REALLY GOING TO PUT THE KEROUAC ARCHIVE ON

>DEPOSIT IN A LIBRARY? Whe he feels like it nothing more or nothing

less...but it is NOT being sold off piecemeal like Joan Haverty's arrest

warrant to Jack...

WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT...NOT AT YOUR BIDDING YOU CAN COUNT ON THAT

>

>SOMEHOW I KNEW THAT YOU WOULD STILL CONTEST THIS..CONSIDER THIS, YOUR

RAVINGS ARE PROBABLY HOLDING UP THE PUBLICATION OF MANY UNPUBLISHED ITEMS.

IF MR. SAMPAS COULD CONCENTRATE ON PUBLICATION INSTEAD OF LITIGATION IT

WOULD HAPPEN A LOT SOONER. TRUST ME. I can call John Sampas a friend of mine

because to me...he seems an honest and fair man.He is receptive to

publications about Kerouac (like mine) and is always interested in what the

fans of Kerouac want. He is not hoarding up anything for himself. If you

think that all this stuff you claim is true and that he is the mastermind of

it all then you hardly even know who John Sampas is. when will there be

enough in the archives? I think it would be best to conclude these postings

with the realization that the real fans of Kerouac have a BIG treat for them

in store in September. Some of the Dharma is a quality publication. just

think...it does not have to come out at all. Be thankful for what you got

and not for what you don't have.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 01:09:34 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      What is your agenda Pam?

 

****IT IS "SAMPAS"...GET THE SPELLING AS WELL AS THE FACTS STARIGHT

BEFORE

YOU TAKE SIDES...

 

Well, I never said I was a scholar, only a lawyer.  My question is

whether or not someone is trying to quelch discussions with false

accusations.  If so, it doesn't matter to me if it is Nicosia, Sampas,

Sapras or Pampras.  I am asking a question.

 

You seem to have an opinion and you certainly know more about the list

than I do, but, I will catch up.

 

I will spell and mispell as I please or out of ignorance.  Spulling is

overrated anyway.

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 01:13:16 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Man, is there a buzz going on in here or what?

 

HOW ABOUT THE SAMPASES SELLING THE ESTATE "PIECEMEAL"..IS THAT NOT

SLANDER?

 

If they have not done this, it might be.  My question was, what is this

all about?  I do not bring any defined ideas to the table. And I am

entitled to ask.  Have they sold off portions of the estate?  Do you

know?  Just tell me what you know, back channel is fine.

 

Peace,

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 22 May 1997 22:25:27 -0700

Reply-To:     goyozura@earthlink.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gregory Zura <goyozura@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      please remove me

 

REMOVE BEAT-L Gregory Zura

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 01:46:00 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Clarify this situation

 

Obviously this thing is hotter than I expected.  I want to make it clear

to everyone, I have spoken, once on the phone with Mr. Nicosia.  As a

lawyer I am interested in his story, which I picked up from a search on

beats on a web search engine.  I have requested that members back

channel me with information on this dispute.

 

I will not make public, even to Nicosia any bc mail.  And if I were to

ever get involved with the Nicosia in any legal action, I will post this

to the group.  I do not want anyone to share any thoughts or ideas with

me, unless you understand that I intend to speak again with Nicosia, but

will not republish any bc mail to him without your express consent.

 

Just a lawyerly warning to try to keep it straight.

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 01:52:04 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: the list

 

Paul,

 

Thanks for posting this list of items.  I mean that.

 

A few honest questions:

 

1).  Are all of these items originals?  I know what a holograph is and I know

what a typescript is so I am asuming they're are originals.  Is that corret?

 

2).  Are all the letters listed originals?

 

3).  Are the notebooks listed Jack's breast pocket notebooks?

 

4).  Are any of these items photocopies or other reproductions?

 

5).  Have these items been "Sold", "Donated", "Loaned" or are they "On

Deposit"?

 

 

Also, Paul, I'd be careful about insinuating that anyone who is on the Beat-L

who may not agree with you is not a *real* fan of Kerouac.  If we weren't

*all* real fans of Kerouac's we wouldn't be here to begin with and we

certainly woudn't be so passionate about this issue.

 

Secondly, while this list you'll be publishing in the KQ is valuable and

important, it is *not* evidence that accusations of selling off items

piecemeal are unsubstantiated.   As a matter of fact a number of people on

the Beat-L are known to have been involved in various transactions, so

obviously items were bought and sold.

 

Lastly, you say, "Be thankful for what you got and not for what you don't

have".  What a curious thing to say.  I would submit to everyone that a valid

argument could be made that the *only* reason these items on your list are

being properly addressed is because Gerry Nicosia and Jan Kerouac made such a

public spectacle that John Sampas had no choice in this.  He had to do

something to show he's doing the right thing.

 

I do appreciate your efforts to shine light on the topic, Paul.  I may not

agree with some of your conclusions, but I'm glad you're saying what you

know.  I respect that.

 

Regards,

 

 

Jerry Cimino

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 00:33:09 PDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Pearson <digress@ELLENSBURG.COM>

Subject:      Re: Nice people swallow..

 

At 12:58 PM 5/21/97 -0700, you wrote:

>>> General man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.

 

>Sure! No problem ;)

>

>HOW TO SUCK COCK

 

This is not why I subscribe,

        still it's a fertile topic for sanguine humor

        though I wonder, you hate them like that?

        or do you unlike them unlike that?

        And "forwarding" this from someone else

        raises concerns.....we want your angle on this

        though it's only mental.

Respectully,

        just another swingin' little guy who wants to

        know what you know, without being invasive

        or raising your hackles, kitty!

 

www.ellensburg.com/~digress

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 03:44:56 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: a calm request

 

Derek, Marie, Lisa, et al...

 

I agree a lot of this is distasteful.  I agree too much of it is juvenile.

But it is serving a very large purpose.

 

Look at who does *nothing* but shout and moan.  The very same people who

refuse to answer honest questions.  These people have raised the level of

rhetoric time and time again because they have no legitimate argument to

make.  Now Chaput is calling for a truce.  Why?  Because he knows he's

beaten.  Tracy gave him a gift by asking if he was really serious about his

"Gerry is a thief because he xeroxed Jack's letters" post which allowed him

to come back with "it was a joke".

 

Is everybody out there blind to all this?  I hate the namecalling too, but

that's not what this is about.  This is about JACK KEROUAC'S ARCHIVES.  What

have we *ever* discussed that is more important than that?

 

This is an issue that has to be discussed.  And private emails won't cut it.

 I agree everyone should tone down the namecalling and shouting, but we've

got to keep talking about it on the Beat-L.  It's the public forum that

exposes the truth and exposes motivations.

 

If Jack Kerouac's archives aren't important to you, then hit the delete

button.  If we stop talking about this now then the people who want to hide

the truth will have won.  And the people calling for this topic to be halted

will have helped silence the truth.

 

 

Jerry Cimino

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 04:17:37 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      the knights who say, all right allready!

In-Reply-To:  <199705222148.OAA12515@norway.it.earthlink.net>

 

meester nicosia wrote:

 

"The trouble is, Mr. Chaput can keep posting these lies faster than I

can answer them, since I am also answering Anstee and the other cheap-shot

artists at the same time"

 

a solution: just cc: mr chaput and mr anstee and who and what ever, and go

off line with it.

 

and for motivation to have some respect for others on list/  by so doing,

the winner of this piss contest will recieve an all expenses paid visit to

the m.ppython 'argument clinic'

 

wearily

mc

 

 

.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 02:05:28 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Lisa M. Rabey" <lisar@NET-LINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: rants raves and other quandries

In-Reply-To:  <v01510100afaa6a52df2c@[128.125.223.188]>

 

At 09:08 PM 5/22/97 -0700, you wrote:

>>

>>Ummm..Im sorry, but I don't fill over 200+ subscribers a day with probably

>>over 100k of crap about whose a liar, whose fucking who, who is screwed

>>who, and who believed who about what where and when. Thats great that you

>>liek to read the posts, but unfortunately, the majority of the list seems

>>to disagree with you and there has been many polite and unpolite requests

>>to move all estate battles to another list (ie start your own) so that the

>>rest of us who use email for other then gossip mills can actually

>>participate in conversations that can be enjoyed by all.

>

>Given that there are 200 people on the list (according to your post) and

>there have been a few complaints about "the fight", i cannot see how you

>can know a majority of the list agrees.

 

First off, its roughly 232 people that are on this list. If you are so

inclined to know how many here is, just email: majordomo@cunyvm.cuny.edu

body of text: who beat-l

Will tell you how many people are currently on the list. If the list is

done by listproc@cunyvm.cuny.edu, the commands will be different.

 

Now, I am "assuming" that you know nothing of how a list works. Let me give

a breif tutorial.

 

A list is generated to talk about something specific topic, such as this

one is generated about Beat Liteature/related topics. Generally, majority

of the people lurk, but there are those who are heavy contributors, such as

Patricia, Leon, Race--, Marie, James Stauffer (plus I know there are many

heavy contributors out there, im not slighting you out, im just naming

names i've seen recently). These people have made heavy contributation to

the list. There are others such as myself who lurk and make minimal

contribution and finally there are those who say nothing at all.

 

Now, when majority of the those who make a voice on this list and  more or

less set the beat of the beat list. Doesn't mean they own the list per se,

but obviously they are here to discuss BEAT LITERATURE/related topics and

want to see that it continues. This also doesn't mean that others can't

contribute, but, "someone" has to take the lead in starting conversations,

because if someone doesn' the list will go dead because people are afraid

to say something.  And I am always grateful to the input and information

about various and sundry things beat, because that is "Why" i am here, is

to learn more about a "subject" (for lack of a better word) that intrests

me wholly.

 

And seeing as 'majority' of those that contribute (as well as myself) feel

that this has gone way out of control, it can be safely said that its the

lists voice that does not want the 'saga' to continue. Its boring, its

backbiting and its worthless. Its become nothing but gossip treadmil of

insults, backbiting and immaturity.

 

 

 

>

>But, aside from this claim, I feel sad at this attitude.

 

 

Thats your opinion, which you are more then rightly entitled to have. Does

not mean I have to agree with you.

 

 

>

>Your statement above is the same as those who banned howl so many years ago.

 

You sir have just stepped out of bounds. You know nothing about me and my

comment nor anyones has NOTHING to do with censorship of anything. It has

to do with the bad taste and the bullshit this list has nothing to do with

literature or anything else. I prefer not to get close to a hundred

messages a day from ONE list about a subject that pretains nothing to the

list whatso ever. Its gone beyond simple matter of what happened to a full

out flame war, which, is poor netiquette.

 

 

>

>Just cause you and a majority are offended by something you want to ban it.

>The cry of the censors througout history.

>

 

Oh for christsakes, grow up. Your acting as immature and as childish as

those who were participating in the war. This is NOT about censorship, book

burning or anything else. Its about common sense and having MANNERS. I am

NOT the only one who feels this way, but I may be the most vocal.

 

 

and it is MY right to voice my opinion because if I don't agree with

something, I sure as hell am not going to sit back and let it just roll on

by thinking someone else will talk for me.

 

 

ttfn.

 

lisa

--

 

Lisa M. Rabey

Internet and Computer Consultant

San Francisco, California

http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye

**************************************

General man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 02:18:35 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Lisa M. Rabey" <lisar@NET-LINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: a calm request

In-Reply-To:  <970523034455_-196546180@emout15.mail.aol.com>

 

At 03:44 AM 5/23/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Derek, Marie, Lisa, et al...

>

>I agree a lot of this is distasteful.  I agree too much of it is juvenile.

>But it is serving a very large purpose.

 

Im sorry, but I don't see how backbiting, name calling, getting lawyer in

the mix, and other going ons are 'helping' anything.

 

>

>Look at who does *nothing* but shout and moan.  The very same people who

>refuse to answer honest questions.  These people have raised the level of

>rhetoric time and time again because they have no legitimate argument to

>make.  Now Chaput is calling for a truce.  Why?  Because he knows he's

>beaten.  Tracy gave him a gift by asking if he was really serious about his

>"Gerry is a thief because he xeroxed Jack's letters" post which allowed him

>to come back with "it was a joke".

 

Im sorry, I thought Mr. Chaputs letter was one of the nicest ones this list

has generated in a long time. To stand back and say "hey, this is getting

ridiculas" and stepping away has nothing to do with being 'beaten' but

perhaps showing a bit more maturity then some of the people on here are

even wanting to show. This is NOT a list dedicated to will/probate what

have you of Jack's stuff, its about beat literature and until now, has been

quit nice filler for information about the people behind the books and the

books themselves as well as other related topics. Its now turned into a

National Enquirer via email. If I wanted to read trash, I would walk my ass

down to the store and buy a copy.

 

>

>Is everybody out there blind to all this?  I hate the namecalling too, but

>that's not what this is about.  This is about JACK KEROUAC'S ARCHIVES.  What

>have we *ever* discussed that is more important than that?

 

Its gone beyond his archives. Its gone to being nothing but a whose got a

bigger dick then the other person.

Whats next? Pulling my pigtails to show that you like me?

 

>

>This is an issue that has to be discussed.  And private emails won't cut it.

> I agree everyone should tone down the namecalling and shouting, but we've

>got to keep talking about it on the Beat-L.  It's the public forum that

>exposes the truth and exposes motivations.

 

Again, I disagree with you.  The issue has been beaten into the ground so

many goddamn times its worse then the old "men vs woman" stand by. And I

even suggested that you CREATE your own listserv so that those who were

intersted in this could subscribe and bitch to their hearts content.

 

Hell, email bryanf@samurai.com

He owns his own server and handles listservs for free.

Just tell him that you want one and he will set it up, hell even tell him I

sent ya!

 

>

>If Jack Kerouac's archives aren't important to you, then hit the delete

>button.  If we stop talking about this now then the people who want to hide

>the truth will have won.  And the people calling for this topic to be halted

>will have helped silence the truth.

 

 

You know what? (Forgiv me Patricia) Fuck off. This list generates way too

much mail. And I don't know about the rest of you out there, but *this*

account alone gets roughly 500 messages a day for personal email/business

and now *some* lists. I like this list. I have met many really nice people,

especially since I moved to the SF area, and if you think I am going to

quietly die, your are quite mistaken. And again, it has nothing to do with

his archieves, its a damn pissing contest/whose got the bigger balls and

the rest of the nonsense. Its pure bullshit. Get off your ego trip and

realize  THAT truth.

 

 

</rant>

 

ttfn.

 

Lisa

 

--

 

Lisa M. Rabey

Internet and Computer Consultant

San Francisco, California

http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye

**************************************

General man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.

 



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