=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 18:25:42 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
In-Reply-To: <199705230018.RAA29807@hsc.usc.edu>
beat-L
members
dont
you think taht the absurdity of the swallow & etc posts that can be
found
lately may be a direct respose to some of the heated nature of the
other
posts? one group of authors is fighting & insulting & getting very
heated
& upset... the other part is simply joking around & relaxing (in my
opinion)
until the conversations relax.
so much
heat around these parts
makes
it a little hard to want to be part of the soup
yrs
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:47:00 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MORE OXY THAN MORON
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Brad Parker Speaks
I
thought Brad Parker was one of the stops on the Monopoly game...
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 17:52:01 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: A Retraction of Sorts
The
estate controversy _could_ be interesting if people were willing to
periodically
report any progress instead of assissinating (sp?) the
character
of those involved, which is the way it has boiled down. I know
that my
last posting was harsh but the synopsis of this list I received
before
subscribing suggested that literature, not court cases, would be the
topic
of discussion.
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:56:45 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MORE OXY THAN MORON
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: QUESTIONS?
Why did
Mr. Sampas cross the road?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:57:50 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MORE OXY THAN MORON
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: MEMORY BABE
...to
sell another (single) Kerouac item!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:02:49 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: QUESTIONS?
MORE
OXY THAN MORON wrote:
>
>
Why did Mr. Sampas cross the road?
let's
see ....... hmm...
to
recruit another prospective conspirator?????
to
catch a prospective buyer?????
to
negotiate with the NYPL?????
because
it wasn't there ?????
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 21:29:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: a calm request
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.970522181440.25850B-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
"cyber
table"
insulting
name calling
and a
general accusationary tone
messages
that offend
or
"bother" people
finger
pointing
and
name calling
move
back &
settle
yr disputes alone
you can
speak calmly about the issues
please
gentlemen & ladies
relax,
take a
breath,
gather
yr thoughts
and
lets TALK together
WRITE
together
COMPOSE
together
LAUGH
together,
not
fight.
come on
folks
thats
what i meant.
derek
beaulieu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:51:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: a calm request - and unending
conversation
Michael
Stutz wrote:
>
>
"cyber table"
neither
round nor square and somewhere
between
Merlin's beard
and a
23 year old
waitress
at a cafe
near
Lexington
>
>
insulting name calling
like
your
momma
and my
daddy didn't
and
this
and
that
and my
redwagon can
kick
your ass
in a
pinewood derby
down
desolation
peak
>
and a general accusationary tone
>
>
messages that offend
> or
"bother" people
or
raise the hair on the
back of
our collective cybernecks
at the
cybertable
with
a cyber
menu and words spewed out
sunny-side
up
at dawn
>
>
finger pointing
>
and name calling
the
fans jeer the villains
who
duel
from
opposite
edges
of
a
double-edged
cabbage
>
>
move back &
>
settle yr disputes alone
but
remember
that
doing so
can
bring on blindness
>
>
you can speak calmly about the issues
issues
is a euphemism
for
words on
subjects
that
are best used
as
toilet
paper
in the
woods
>
>
please gentlemen & ladies
start
your engines
but
hold
the
blows to body slams
and
poking eyes
and
leave each other's
characters
and the
characters
of
those not at the
cyber
table
and the
cartoon
characters
that
dream of such
feuds
in
toonsville
visions
out of
the
exchanges
>
>
relax,
>
take a breath,
>
gather yr thoughts
then
realize that breathing
beats
bitching
and a
wooden nickel
buys a
plate
of
sauerkraut
at the
diner
in West
Dodge
>
>
and lets TALK together
>
WRITE together
>
COMPOSE together
>
LAUGH together,
>
not fight.
Mr.
Rogers joins Pee Wee Hermann
in a
friendly embrace
with the
ghost
of
Captain Kangaroo
reminding
Mr. Green Jeans
that
kindness
and playful
friendship
is the
path to
enlightenment
>
>
come on folks
let's
join in a good round
of row
row row
your
boat
and
tequila
shots
for all
at the
cyber-table
on the
cyber-house
>
>
thats what i meant.
that's
what i meant to mean
i think
david
rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 19:07:53 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
In-Reply-To: <199705230018.RAA29807@hsc.usc.edu>
At
05:18 PM 5/22/97 -0700, you wrote:
>At
03:04 PM 5/22/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>This
list is 'suppossedly' to be
>>about
beat LITERATURE, it is not about Chaput or Nicosia or whomever else
>>is
fighting this estate thing.
>
>Hmm,
funny statement coming from someone who posted this
>_________________________________
>"erm,
premise #2 is wrong, how would a baby get milk from a bottle or its
>mother
if it was non-essetial? It can't frightly feed itself with a
>fork/spoon?
>
>ttfn.
>
>lisa
>
>(and
if premise 2 is wrong, that makes all the other premises wrong as
>well,
as niceness is not necessary ;)"
>______________________________________-
>
>
>In
another thread.
>
>Nothing
personal, and no complaints about this other swallowing thread, but
>it
seems that the rants and gossip you complain about is more related to
>beat
stuff than this swallowing thread.
>
>You
see what I mean?
>
>Take
care, no animosity, just observation and comment.
>
>I
like reading the estate battle posts.
>
Ummm..Im
sorry, but I don't fill over 200+ subscribers a day with probably
over
100k of crap about whose a liar, whose fucking who, who is screwed
who,
and who believed who about what where and when. Thats great that you
liek to
read the posts, but unfortunately, the majority of the list seems
to
disagree with you and there has been many polite and unpolite requests
to move
all estate battles to another list (ie start your own) so that the
rest of
us who use email for other then gossip mills can actually
participate
in conversations that can be enjoyed by all.
And my
little piece that I sent to the list on how to give head is more
beat
then fighting over whose a damn liar and who should be sued.
ttfn.
lisa
--
Lisa M.
Rabey
Internet
and Computer Consultant
San
Francisco, California
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
**************************************
General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 21:27:07 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
Lisa M.
Rabey wrote:
>
>
And my little piece that I sent to the list on how to give head is more
>
beat then fighting over whose a damn liar and who should be sued.
I
believe this is finally something which can be called TRUTH.
david
rhaesa
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 19:29:46 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: pop quiz
Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
>
what is the sound of one ego clapping?
or the
sound of an ego with the clap?
a elf
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 22:35:58 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: a calm request
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 22 May 1997 18:21:27 -0600
from
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Derek's
point is well taken. Let's all try to
discuss our issues with civility
, at
least publicly. If you want to insult
someone personally, take it off the
list.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 19:57:35 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
Derek
A. Beaulieu wrote:
>
>
beat-L members
>
dont you think taht the absurdity of the swallow & etc posts that can be
>
found lately may be a direct respose to some of the heated nature of the
>
other posts? one group of authors is fighting & insulting & getting
very
>
heated & upset... the other part is simply joking around & relaxing (in
my
>
opinion) until the conversations relax.
> so
much heat around these parts
>
makes it a little hard to want to be part of the soup
>
yrs
>
derek
Derek,
That's
my take. The estate posts are producing
all heat and no light. I
love a
good fight, but this one drones on forever.
The worst period of
the
list in my 1 1/2 years. The RW war is nothing along side this one.
Personally
I would rather talk about blowjobs
Pull my
daisy, or whatever's handy
J
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 23:07:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Time magazine-Kerouac ....and Life
Phil,
Thanks for the tip-off about the Time
Magazine article. Do you know
what
the date of the issue was? Also,
someone else mentioned articles that
appeared
in Life magazine during the fifties about the Beats. If that person
recognizes
themselves I'd like a tip to the date/writer of the article.
Specifically,
I wondered if the article(s) in Life might have been written
by
Loudon Wainwright II.
Many thanks.
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky
and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 23:29:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Beat List T-Shirt Update
Dear
Beat-L members:
I spoke
with S. Clay Wilson today..the artwork for our t-shirt will be ready
next
week.
I will
post the artwork for you to check out on our new Water Row Books web
site
(still
under construction) but I'll give you all the temporary address when I
get the
artwork up.
The
shirt should be ready to ship within the month so ordering information,
price,
etc. will be posted on the list as well...
If you
are new to the list and want to know more about the Beat-L Tshirt
designed
by Subterranean artist, S. Clay Wilson, Here's the story:
Back
just before Easter 1997, a discussion came up on the Beat-L about the
famous
1987 "River City Reunion" that took place in Lawrence,Kansas. Beat
writers,
musicians, artists and others came to the Univ of Kansas, Lawrence
to
rap,
play, perform and discuss culture in America...S. Clay Wilson designed a
great
logo for the event that was used on posters, programs, and Tshirts.
Meanwhile,
S. Clay Wilson was lurking on the Beat-L, an Easter weekend guest
of
Beat/Hippie/Radical Conservative Poet Charlie Plymell, who, with wife,
Pam,
runs
Cherry
Valley Editions, tres cool avant-garde publishing company in upstate
NY.
Wilson
got on the list and said hello....I suggested that Wilson draw a Beat
ListT-shirt
for us...I offered on behalf of Water Row Books as sponsor to put
up the
bread to get the shirt done and then sell them to Beat-L members at
cost...So
here's where we are now - the artwork will be finished in a few
days
hopefully and I'll let everyone know the cost and other details. The
shirt
can be checked out then at the new Water Row Books web site (address to
follow)
-
By the
way, S. Clay Wilson found a box of original River City Reunion posters
and
programs from the 1987 event. He signed them all and sent them to me here
at
Water Row. The poster is printed on a nice heavy stock and is approx. 16"
x
20" -
a
perfect size to frame. It features Wilson's great logo of a cowpoke-type
guy
dancing around with another Beat poet-type who looks alot like Allen
Ginsberg.
Great colorful
Wilson
artwork. The poster also lists the dates for the event as well as the
participants
that included Burroughs, Ginsberg, Robert Frank, Jim Carroll,
Husker
Du, many many more....
The
River City Reunion program also features the logo in full color plus the
detailed
schedule
of events, bios of each participant, event location, etc. Wilson
also
signed each program front cover...
For the
very small price of $25.00, you can get a set of one signed poster
and one
signed program. If you only want the poster or program by itself, the
price
is $15.00 for the one item. The programs are in near mint condition and
the posters
are in very fine condition. The posters have a little corner wear
or
wrinkling from age (ten years old already!), For Beat-L members, I'll pay
the
shipping.
MC/Visa
accepted. Satisfaction guaranteed. Both posters and programs now in
stock...Offer
good only while limited supply lasts....
Thanks
-
Jeffrey
Weinberg
Water
Row Books
PO Box
438
Sudbury
MA 01776
Tel
508-485-8515
Fax
508-229-0885
EMail
Waterrow@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 23:51:44 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: the list
This is
not to appease the forces to be but to appease you and me.... :)
(Provided
courtesy of John Sampas, Literary Executor of the Estate of John
and
Stella Kerouac and Phil Chaput who is not an employee of Mr. John
Sampas,
just a friend) and my wife who let me stay on the computer this long
to type
this long ass list... again :)
(a more
complete list including dates of deposit will be published in The
Kerouac
Quarterly (Vol. I, No. 2) available soon)
Here
goes....
Maggie
Cassidy (unused section), 45-page hoograph ms.
The
Happy Truth 10-page holograph ms.: plus Ecstacy of Life and Death, 2
1/2-page
holograph ms.; plus The Blessedness Surely to be Believed, 7-page
holograph
ms. -- together in 1 notebook.
Buddha
Tells Us or Wake Up. 50 - page holograph ms.; plus The Essential
Mind.
81-page holograph ms. -- together in 1 notebook.
Some of
the Dharma. 1332-page holograph ms. in 11 notebooks; plus 385-page
typescript.
5 JK
letters: 2 page letter to his mother, dated March 1943; 1-page TLS to
Sebastian
Sampas, dated 1943; 1-page TLS (with holograph postscript) to his
sister,
Nin, dated 1947; 2-page TLS (with holograph notes to Tal, Mr. Win,
Miss
James et al, dated August 1952; 2-page letter to the editors of Time
magazine,
dated 1961.
Moore
of Myself. A Sonnet. 2-page holograph ms. dated 1943.
Passing
Through. 615 page holograph ms. in 10 notebooks.
Mexico
City Blues. 451-page holograph ms. in 5 notebooks; plus 121-page
typescript.
Included in the notebooks are the following:
151 pages of material for Tristessa,
the complete first book.
13-page fragment entitled
"Statue of Christ" from Lonesome Traveler.
1-page letter to J.C. Holmes.
1-page prose note.
1/2-page prose note entitled
"Hunan Road Sacrifice."
2-page intro. to mexico City Blues
differing from the published
version.
3 1/2 page section from Book of
Dreams.
1-page section from Book of Dreams.
1-page essay entitled, "Statue
of saint Joseph."
1-page work on Dharma.
1-page section from Some of the
Dharma.
16-page essay entitled, "Break
on the Railroad."
1-page note on Buddhism.
5-page essay on the "Practice
of Dhyana."
1-page essay on the Tao.
"More
Mexico City Blues, Washington DC Blues. Poems 1957." Original
notebook,
approx. 55 pages.
"Poems
All Sizes..." manuscript notebook, approx. 93 pages.
"San
Francisco Blues." 73-page typescript.
Sebastian
Sampas to Jack Kerouac. 12 ALS, 60 pages (including 1page of
typescript),
dated 1940 to 1941.
Gabrielle
Kerouac to JK. 33 ALS, 125 pages (dated 1942 - '43 in Kerouac's hand).
Mary
Carney to JK. 17 ALS, 53 pages, no date (3 letters are dated 1954 in
Keoruac's
hand). One letter with a pencil notation by Kerouac.
JK.
1-page pencil drawing in form of a letter.
(I will
abbreviate from hereon until noted later)
10
letters from JK to Sebastian Sampas.
11
postcards from JK to S. Sampas
16
letters from Jack kerouac to Stella Sampas
17
postcards from JK to Stella Sampas
(here
is complete listing as indicated to me)
Book of
Dreams 1955-page holograph in 11 notebooks (plus 2 loose pages)
Notes
for Dr.Sax, On the Road, The History of Bop; plus Maggie Cassidy,
approx.
250-page holograph manuscript. -- together in 4 notebooks.
"Benzedrine
Vision. Mexico City 1952, Mexico Thieves Markey. Memoirs of a
Bebopper."
84-page holograph ms. in 1 notebook.
Tics.
50 page holograph ms. in 1 notebook.
Beat
Generation. A Play. Acts I and II. 146-page holograph ms. in 1
notebook;
plus 5-page typescript.
Book of
Sketches. Approx. 1200-page holograph ms. in 15 notebooks.
Satori
In Paris. 300-page holograph ms. in 3 spiral notebooks; plus 5
working
notebooks (1961-1965)containing approx. 430 pages of holgraph ms.
(abbreviated
here from list)
8 misc.
items of Kerouac material (letters to friends, a poem, notes a
"dialogue
between three friends")
16
different items of misc. material related to Jack (letters from Gabrielle
to
stella, letters from Helen Mansfield to Mrs. Sampas, Sebastian Sampas
letters
to Kerouac etc.)
Now,
keep in mind, all the smaller items when explained in detail takes up
to
8-pages. More deposits to the Berg collection are forthcoming. This list
is
evidence that the estate selling items off piecemeal are unsubstantiated
rumors.
Those items sold lend no significance to Kerouac scholarship. All of
the
detractors of the Kerouac Estate, if they are man enough with integrity
should
apologize to John Sampas for making such unfounded claims. I hope
this
list helps.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 23:39:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: QUESTIONS?
RACE
--- wrote:
>
MORE OXY THAN MORON wrote:
>
>
>
> Why did Mr. Sampas cross the road?
>
>
let's see ....... hmm...
>
> to
recruit another prospective conspirator?????
>
> to
catch a prospective buyer?????
>
> to
negotiate with the NYPL?????
>
>
because it wasn't there ?????
Yo, Race,
I
finally made it here. But the first two
posts are about the estate
and
yours about Sampras. Please back
channel me and let me know what is
up. Can I ask you about the Celtics here? ;-)
Peace,
Bentz
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 22:44:58 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
Derek
A. Beaulieu wrote:
>
>
beat-L members
>
dont you think taht the absurdity of the swallow & etc posts that can be
>
found lately may be a direct respose to some of the heated nature of the
>
other posts? one group of authors is fighting & insulting & getting
very
>
heated & upset... the other part is simply joking around & relaxing (in
my
>
opinion) until the conversations relax.
> so
much heat around these parts
>
makes it a little hard to want to be part of the soup
>
yrs
>
derek
oh of course your right, but i didn't
understand and took the
directions
to heart and now have my own beat following.
patricia,
whoes credentials stand up
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 23:48:31 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Wow!
Like
man, wow! I just subscribed and almost
all the first posts I
receive,
except the tee shirt post, thanks for that one, are about
hostility
over what? Is there a place that
archives these posts so that
I can
catch up on this.
What
about a thread?
Has
this list explored the ancestors to the beats?
I see a "line" from
Thoreau
(sp) vs Emerson; Wolfe vs ????, Kerouac vs Vidal, Dylan vs
anyone,
etc. There seems to be a thread that
runs through "beat" side
of
literature that is inherited into and by working class poets. Has
anyone
studied or considered who are its predecessors. Like Gertrude
Stein ? the Bohemians? I am just curious.
Peace,
Bentz
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 23:50:58 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: MEMORY BABE
MORE
OXY THAN MORON wrote:
>
...to sell another (single) Kerouac item!
I wish I wasn't so curious, but what is all
this about?
Peace,
Bentz
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:21:13 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
>I
am ashamed to say that this list has deterioted to nothing but a showing
>of
whose has a bigger ego, and for that alone, all those involved should be
>ashamed.
>>--
>
>Lisa
M. Rabey
>Internet
and Computer Consultant
>San
Francisco, California
>http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
>**************************************
>General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
>
>
Lisa, May 22, 1997
I appreciate what all of you are
saying, but it is not your
professionalism
that is under attack here--it is mine.
I spend six years working my ass off to write what William S.
Burroughs
called "the best of the many books about Jack Kerouac's life and
work,"
and I am accused of running around the country making xeroxes of
Kerouac
letters so I can sell them for "cold, hard cash."
That stuff is pretty hard to
take. And the people who are making
those
accusations know full well how bogus they are.
Nor have they spent
the
years writing, teaching, and lecturing about Kerouac, as I have (Mr.
Anstee
has self-published a few pieces and given a talk or two; Mr. Chaput
has
done none of the above).
They have deliberately muddied the
water, so that the real
discussion
of preserving Jack Kerouac's literary archive would get off
point,
and they have done their best to see that it has never gotten back on
point. This is the dirtiest kind of play, and if we
were on the basketball
court,
these guys would all have been thrown out on technical fouls two
weeks
ago.
Unfortunately, we don't have any trained
literary refs around here.
Cimino
has tried, but they've elbowed and head-butted him to helplessness too.
I expect the dirty play to continue,
but I'm agreeing to back off,
since
that's what the majority appears to want.
The only bad taste I have left is that
the other guys have
"won"--they
got what they wanted, which was to kill an honest discussion of
what
should be done with Jack Kerouac's papers.
They have never allowed
such a
discussion to take place, ANYWHERE.
When Jan Kerouac asked for five
minutes
to talk about it at NYU, the year before she died, they dragged her
out
with police.
They can't use police here, just
threats of lawsuits and all this
other
shit. So once again truth is the first
casualty.
Peace everyone, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 23:02:31 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: QUESTIONS?
R.
Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
>
RACE --- wrote:
>
>
> MORE OXY THAN MORON wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Why did Mr. Sampas cross the road?
>
>
>
> let's see ....... hmm...
>
>
>
> to recruit another prospective conspirator?????
>
>
>
> to catch a prospective buyer?????
>
>
>
> to negotiate with the NYPL?????
>
>
>
> because it wasn't there ?????
>
> Yo, Race,
>
> I
finally made it here. But the first two
posts are about the estate
>
and yours about Sampras. Please back
channel me and let me know what is
>
up. Can I ask you about the Celtics
here? ;-)
>
>
Peace,
>
>
Bentz
Howdy
and welcome.
i can
try and dig around and send you some "choice" excerpts from the
GREAT
ESTATE KONTROVERSY backchannel but it could be next week and if i
forget
remind me ... imagine a court battle over Bill Russell's old
shoes
and Auerbach's cigar butts with a literary flair and you'll have
the gist
of it.
we
better not talk to much Celtics over here.
i have most of that list
on the
auto-delete function right now until after draft date only you
and
Dorine P. don't get nuked right now.
otherwise
my suggestion would be to lurk a bit and if something seems
especially
incomprehensible feel free to backchannel me.
david
rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 22:58:00 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat List T-Shirt Update
Jeffrey
Weinberg wrote:
>
>
Dear Beat-L members:
>
> I
spoke with S. Clay Wilson today..the artwork for our t-shirt will be ready
>
next week.
> I
will post the artwork for you to check out on our new Water Row Books web
>
site
>
(still under construction) but I'll give you all the temporary address when I
>
get the artwork up.
>
>
The shirt should be ready to ship within the month so ordering information,
>
price, etc. will be posted on the list as well...
>
> If
you are new to the list and want to know more about the Beat-L Tshirt
>
designed by Subterranean artist, S. Clay Wilson, Here's the story:
>
>
Back just before Easter 1997, a discussion came up on the Beat-L about the
>
famous 1987 "River City Reunion" that took place in Lawrence,Kansas.
Beat
>
writers, musicians, artists and others came to the Univ of Kansas, Lawrence
> to
>
rap, play, perform and discuss culture in America...S. Clay Wilson designed a
>
great logo for the event that was used on posters, programs, and Tshirts.
>
>
Meanwhile, S. Clay Wilson was lurking on the Beat-L, an Easter weekend guest
> of
Beat/Hippie/Radical Conservative Poet Charlie Plymell, who, with wife,
>
Pam, runs
>
Cherry Valley Editions, tres cool avant-garde publishing company in upstate
>
NY.
>
Wilson got on the list and said hello....I suggested that Wilson draw a Beat
>
ListT-shirt for us...I offered on behalf of Water Row Books as sponsor to put
> up
the bread to get the shirt done and then sell them to Beat-L members at
>
cost...So here's where we are now - the artwork will be finished in a few
>
days hopefully and I'll let everyone know the cost and other details. The
>
shirt can be checked out then at the new Water Row Books web site (address to
>
follow) -
>
> By
the way, S. Clay Wilson found a box of original River City Reunion posters
>
and programs from the 1987 event. He signed them all and sent them to me here
> at
Water Row. The poster is printed on a nice heavy stock and is approx. 16"
> x
20" -
> a
perfect size to frame. It features Wilson's great logo of a cowpoke-type
>
guy dancing around with another Beat poet-type who looks alot like Allen
>
Ginsberg. Great colorful
>
Wilson artwork. The poster also lists the dates for the event as well as the
>
participants that included Burroughs, Ginsberg, Robert Frank, Jim Carroll,
>
Husker Du, many many more....
>
>
The River City Reunion program also features the logo in full color plus the
>
detailed
>
schedule of events, bios of each participant, event location, etc. Wilson
>
also signed each program front cover...
>
>
For the very small price of $25.00, you can get a set of one signed poster
>
and one signed program. If you only want the poster or program by itself, the
>
price is $15.00 for the one item. The programs are in near mint condition and
>
the posters are in very fine condition. The posters have a little corner wear
> or
wrinkling from age (ten years old already!), For Beat-L members, I'll pay
>
the shipping.
>
MC/Visa accepted. Satisfaction guaranteed. Both posters and programs now in
>
stock...Offer good only while limited supply lasts....
>
>
Thanks -
>
>
Jeffrey Weinberg
>
Water Row Books
> PO
Box 438
>
Sudbury MA 01776
>
Tel 508-485-8515
>
Fax 508-229-0885
>
EMail Waterrow@aol.com
oooh
gooood
thanks
jeff, i appreciate you. I think the
cowboy look for burroughs
was
because the river city reunion was (i believe)the same year wsb took
to
wearing jeans rather than east coast slacks all the time. they looked
good on
him too. very kansan
p
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 21:08:16 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
>
>Ummm..Im
sorry, but I don't fill over 200+ subscribers a day with probably
>over
100k of crap about whose a liar, whose fucking who, who is screwed
>who,
and who believed who about what where and when. Thats great that you
>liek
to read the posts, but unfortunately, the majority of the list seems
>to
disagree with you and there has been many polite and unpolite requests
>to
move all estate battles to another list (ie start your own) so that the
>rest
of us who use email for other then gossip mills can actually
>participate
in conversations that can be enjoyed by all.
Given
that there are 200 people on the list (according to your post) and
there
have been a few complaints about "the fight", i cannot see how you
can
know a majority of the list agrees.
But,
aside from this claim, I feel sad at this attitude.
Your
statement above is the same as those who banned howl so many years ago.
Just
cause you and a majority are offended by something you want to ban it.
The cry
of the censors througout history.
best
wishes to you,
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 21:14:30 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: the list
>
>Now,
keep in mind, all the smaller items when explained in detail takes up
>to
8-pages. More deposits to the Berg collection are forthcoming. This list
>is
evidence that the estate selling items off piecemeal are unsubstantiated
>rumors.
Those items sold lend no significance to Kerouac scholarship. All of
>the
detractors of the Kerouac Estate, if they are man enough with integrity
>should
apologize to John Sampas for making such unfounded claims. I hope
>this
list helps.
>
Dear
Paul, May 22, 1997
I owe no one an apology. This is essentially the same list that
librarian
Rodney Phillips gave me 3 years ago. He
told me he couldn't
remember
any of it coming directly from Mr. Sampas.
If that was an error,
then
blame Mr. Phillips. I met with him, I
queried him, I did my best to
learn
the truth.
Almost nothing has been added since
then. Why should I believe your
(or Mr.
Sampas's) assurance that "more deposits are forthcoming"? What?
A
few
more xeroxes?
Where are the manuscripts of ON THE
ROAD, DR. SAX, THE
SUBTERRANEANS,
VISIONS OF CODY, VISIONS OF GERARD, THE DHARMA BUMS, VANITY
OF
DULUOZ, the rest of DESOLATION ANGELS, most of LONESOME TRAVELLER, and so
many
more published and unpublished (THE SEA IS MY BROTHER, AND THE HIPPOS
WERE
BOILED IN THEIR TANKS!, SECRET MULLINGS ABOUT BILL, etc. etc.) Where
are the
tapes, and photos, and books from Kerouac's library? Where are the
twenty
years of daily breast pocket notebooks?
Where is Kerouac's complete file of
correspondence, with all the
greats,
Ferlinghetti, McClure, and hundreds of other major writers he
corresponded
with?
Where are the galleys and multiple
typed drafts of the different books?
And stop saying "unsubstantiated
rumors" of Sampas selling off
pieces
of the archive. A dozen different
dealers and collectors have
testified
to buying stuff, and I've held plenty of pieces in my own hands.
Ann
Charters bought some pieces for herself.
Jeffrey Weinberg has attested
to the
hundreds of items he sold off. He's
occasionally disputed the price
things
sold for, or whether a drawing was art versus just a sketch. He's
never
said he wasn't Sampas's main dealer from 1991-1993, and that he didn't
issue
catalogues of items from the Kerouac archive, and that he didn't have
plenty
of buyers..
I appreciate the fact that Mr. Sampas
is helping you with your new
magazine,
KEROUAC QUARTERLY, but the biggest service you could do for
Kerouac
scholarship right now is to ask:
WHEN IS MR. SAMPAS REALLY GOING TO PUT
THE KEROUAC ARCHIVE ON
DEPOSIT
IN A LIBRARY? THE FULL ARCHIVE?
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 00:34:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
Gerald
Nicosia wrote:
>
>I am ashamed to say that this list has deterioted to nothing but a
>
showing
>
>of whose has a bigger ego, and for that alone, all those involved
>
should be
>
>ashamed.
>
>>--
>
>
>
>Lisa M. Rabey
>
>Internet and Computer Consultant
>
>San Francisco, California
>
>http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
>
>**************************************
>
>General man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
>
>
>
>
>
Lisa, May 22, 1997
>
> I appreciate what all of you are
saying, but it is not your
>
professionalism that is under attack here--it is mine.
> I spend six years working my ass off
to write what William S.
>
Burroughs called "the best of the many books about Jack Kerouac's life
>
and
>
work," and I am accused of running around the country making xeroxes
> of
>
Kerouac letters so I can sell them for "cold, hard cash."
<snip>My
favorite biography is Memory Babe by this poster. The love and
care
that went into the book are very evident.
But I am picking up here
withing
these very few hours on the list that Mr. Nicosia has been
accused
of something that he says is not true.
From all I know of him,
and I
have spoken with him on the telephone, but that has nothing to do
with
this comment, he has done a very good and appreciated work.
Somewhere
recently I ran into a site on the internet/www that had an
article
about Jan Kerouac, the Sampras fellow and the scene where Jan
was
arrested while Ginsburg tended to embarass himself by failing to aid
his
Goddaughter. I suppose now I am getting
to understand the gest of
this
thread.
As an
attorney, I would like to remind anyone who posts accusations
against
another, like those that Nicosia is selling Kerouac's letters,
that if
those remarks are not true, they can be liable for slander.
Further,
if it interfers with his business, they may be liable for that
interferance
as well. Therefore, I would want anyone making such
accusations
to remember that just because you are sitting behind a
computer
teminal, doesn't mean you can say anything you want to say.
And if
you do it for ulterior motives, you may regret the day you said
it,
because there are lots of lawyers who don't have anything better to
do than
to sue you!!! :-)
Mr.
Nicosia has published a great work and since he apparantly posts to
this
list, I for one want to hear what he has to say. If on the other
hand,
there is evidence that he is in this only to make a quick buck off
Jack
Kerouac, then, I would like to know about that.
A
question that I have is are these persons, Anstee and Chaput in any
way
connected with Samprass? If so, their
comments would be highly
suspect. Any man who would have Kerouac's daughter
arrested and dragged
out of
a public meeting instead of giving her the microphone does not
seem
right to me.
I think
we all have a great interest in the discussion of Kerouac's life
work
and his papers. Noone should be allowed
to chill that.
Hey,
Mr. Nicosia, give me a call, I can't advertise here, but uhhh, you
know, I
am a lawyer.
> They have deliberately muddied the
water, so that the real
>
discussion of preserving Jack Kerouac's literary archive would get off
>
>
point, and they have done their best to see that it has never gotten
>
back on
>
point. <snip basketball>
> The only bad taste I have left is
that the other guys have
>
"won"--they got what they wanted, which was to kill an honest
>
discussion of
>
what should be done with Jack Kerouac's papers. They have never
>
allowed
>
such a discussion to take place, ANYWHERE.
When Jan Kerouac asked for
>
five
>
minutes to talk about it at NYU, the year before she died, they
>
dragged her
>
out with police.
Well, I
for one would like to hear about Kerouac's papers and why they
are not
accessible. What I understand is that
Sampress has made threats
to sue
the University if they let people see the papers. If so, then I
have
another reason to dislike Sampress from the get go. But, I am
asking
because I would like to know. Does
someone besides Mr. Nicosia
know
about this. Has it chilled the
discussion. If so, why would a
column
about beats be intimidated? Stange
indeed.
> They can't use police here, just
threats of lawsuits and all
>
this
>
other shit. So once again truth is the
first casualty.
It
doesn't have to be. I sure would like
to know more about this. Man,
I love
Jack Kerouac's work. That is why I have
signed onto the list.
As you
all can see, I don't have enough sense to keep my nose out of
someone
else's business.
> Peace everyone, Gerry Nicosia
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 00:44:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Time magazine-Kerouac ....and Life
At
11:07 PM 5/22/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Phil,
>
> Thanks for the tip-off about the Time
Magazine article. Do you know
>what
the date of the issue was? Also,
someone else mentioned articles that
>appeared
in Life magazine during the fifties about the Beats. If that person
>recognizes
themselves I'd like a tip to the date/writer of the article.
>Specifically,
I wondered if the article(s) in Life might have been written
>by
Loudon Wainwright II.
>
> Many thanks.
>
> Antoine
>
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in
Montreal
>
> "An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
> -- Norman Navrotsky
and Utah Phillips
>
>All
it said was spring 97 but I'm sure it's still on the shelf at the big
bookstores
like B and N. I was checking it out at the doctors office. I want
to pick
one up myself for my archive(oops did I say that word) sorry. My 15
year
old son was quite impressed because he's always calling me a Kerowacko
and it
was like "See I told you so." Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:04:52 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Last Gasp
Michael
L. Buchenroth wrote:
>
>
Thanks to a BEAT-L post a few weeks back, I snail mailed Last Gasp for a
>
catalog. I received my fantastic Spring 1997 Last Gasp catalog yesterday.
> In
it, they list their web site, www.lastgasp.com
>
Here they have a large online catalog with S. Clay Wilson, R Crumb, 13
>
ZAP Comix reprints for $2.95 each, Tim Leary comics, a huge selection of
>
books and comics, etc etc etc. complete with a running slide show
>
highlighting their wares. I want to share this fantastic web site with
>
BEAT-L readers!
Michael
Could
you reprint the URL on this one. Maybe
I was instantly deleting
Estate
posts and missed something interesting
James
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 21:58:23 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: For R. Bentz Kirby
Mr.
Kirby,
I'm also relatively new to this
list. The estate controversy involves
Kerouac,
a potentially forged will, the whereabouts and alleged sales of
Kerouac's
letters and manuscripts, who possesses the legal right to have
said
documents and any legal tender generated from their sale, who is right
and who
is wrong, who has evidence and who doesn't, the value of xeroxes,
the
wisdom of participants discussing a pending legal matter in a public
forum
and a small South-American tribe named "Sicofitall". I'm sure the
participants
will fill you in further. I dread that
they will use this
forum. Anyway, welcome.
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 01:15:55 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
>As
an attorney, I would like to remind anyone who posts accusations
>against
another, like those that Nicosia is selling Kerouac's letters,
>that
if those remarks are not true, they can be liable for slander.
HOW
ABOUT THE SAMPASES SELLING THE ESTATE "PIECEMEAL"..IS THAT NOT
SLANDER?
>Further,
if it interfers with his business, they may be liable for that
>interferance
as well. Therefore, I would want anyone making such
>accusations
to remember that just because you are sitting behind a
>computer
teminal, doesn't mean you can say anything you want to say.
>And
if you do it for ulterior motives, you may regret the day you said
>it,
because there are lots of lawyers who don't have anything better to
>do
than to sue you!!! :-)
>
>Mr.
Nicosia has published a great work and since he apparantly posts to
>this
list, I for one want to hear what he has to say.
******DONT
WORRY YOU WILL.....
If on the other
>hand,
there is evidence that he is in this only to make a quick buck off
>Jack
Kerouac, then, I would like to know about that.
>
>A
question that I have is are these persons, Anstee and Chaput in any
>way
connected with Samprass? If so, their
comments would be highly
>suspect.
*****WHY?
CAN HE NOT HAVE FRIENDS WHO STICK UP FOR HIM?
Any man who would have Kerouac's daughter
arrested and dragged
>out
of a public meeting instead of giving her the microphone does not
>seem
right to me.
THE
WORLD ISN'T FAIR EITHER...
>
>I
think we all have a great interest in the discussion of Kerouac's life
>work
and his papers. Noone should be allowed
to chill that.
>
>Hey,
Mr. Nicosia, give me a call, I can't advertise here, but uhhh, you
>know,
I am a lawyer.
>
>
>Well,
I for one would like to hear about Kerouac's papers and why they
>are
not accessible. What I understand is
that Sampress
****IT
IS "SAMPAS"...GET THE SPELLING AS WELL AS THE FACTS STARIGHT BEFORE
YOU
TAKE SIDES...
has
made threats
>to
sue the University if they let people see the papers. If so, then I
>have
another reason to dislike Sampress from the get go.
I THINK
YOU REALLY NEED TO DO YOUR HOMEWORK.
But, I am
>asking
because I would like to know. Does
someone besides Mr. Nicosia
>know
about this. Has it chilled the
discussion. If so, why would a
>column
about beats be intimidated? Stange
indeed.
>
>> They can't use police here, just
threats of lawsuits and all
>>
this
>>
other shit. So once again truth is the
first casualty.
>AND
SO MY WORDS WILL BE A TESTAMENT TO THAT AS YOU WILL SEE..
>It
doesn't have to be. I sure would like
to know more about this. Man,
>I
love Jack Kerouac's work. That is why I
have signed onto the list.
>As
you all can see, I don't have enough sense to keep my nose out of
>someone
else's business.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 22:01:56 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Beat List T-Shirt Update
Jeffrey
Weinberg wrote:
>
>
Dear Beat-L members:
>
> I
spoke with S. Clay Wilson today..the artwork for our t-shirt will be ready
>
next week.
> I
will post the artwork for you to check out on our new Water Row Books web
>
site
Jeffery-
Looking
forward to the shirt, it brings back calmer times.
Who
knows, if you had started this later S. Clay would have had to do
John
Sampas as Capt. Pissgums and Gerry Nicosia as Ruby the Dyke.
J
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 01:17:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: the list
> Where are the manuscripts of ON THE
ROAD (on deposit)
, DR.
SAX (
, THE
>SUBTERRANEANS,
VISIONS OF CODY, VISIONS OF GERARD, THE DHARMA BUMS, VANITY
>OF
DULUOZ,
the
rest of DESOLATION ANGELS (Passing
Through is on the list, 615-pages worth
) most
of LONESOME TRAVELLER, and so
>many
more published and unpublished
(THE
SEA IS MY BROTHER, AND THE HIPPOS
>WERE
BOILED IN THEIR TANKS!, SECRET MULLINGS ABOUT BILL, etc. etc.)
********JUVENALIA
NOVELS WILL BE PUBLISHED IN THE FUTURE
Where
>are
the tapes, and photos, and books from Kerouac's library? Where are the
>twenty
years of daily breast pocket notebooks?
********NOTEBOOKS
ARE DUE TO BE PUBLISHED LATER
> Where is Kerouac's complete file of
correspondence, with all the
>greats,
Ferlinghetti, McClure, and hundreds of other major writers he
>corresponded
with? RETAINED FOR SELECTED LETTERS II
> Where are the galleys and multiple
typed drafts of the different books?
>
***********Who cares right now? They will get there in time....
I appreciate the fact that Mr. Sampas is
helping you with your new
>magazine,
KEROUAC QUARTERLY, ( ********my inquiry and his help is for the
fans
not my newsletter)
but the
biggest service you could do for
>Kerouac
scholarship right now is to ask:
> WHEN IS MR. SAMPAS REALLY GOING TO PUT
THE KEROUAC ARCHIVE ON
>DEPOSIT
IN A LIBRARY? Whe he feels like it nothing more or nothing
less...but
it is NOT being sold off piecemeal like Joan Haverty's arrest
warrant
to Jack...
WHEN
THE TIME IS RIGHT...NOT AT YOUR BIDDING YOU CAN COUNT ON THAT
>
>SOMEHOW
I KNEW THAT YOU WOULD STILL CONTEST THIS..CONSIDER THIS, YOUR
RAVINGS
ARE PROBABLY HOLDING UP THE PUBLICATION OF MANY UNPUBLISHED ITEMS.
IF MR.
SAMPAS COULD CONCENTRATE ON PUBLICATION INSTEAD OF LITIGATION IT
WOULD
HAPPEN A LOT SOONER. TRUST ME. I can call John Sampas a friend of mine
because
to me...he seems an honest and fair man.He is receptive to
publications
about Kerouac (like mine) and is always interested in what the
fans of
Kerouac want. He is not hoarding up anything for himself. If you
think
that all this stuff you claim is true and that he is the mastermind of
it all
then you hardly even know who John Sampas is. when will there be
enough
in the archives? I think it would be best to conclude these postings
with
the realization that the real fans of Kerouac have a BIG treat for them
in
store in September. Some of the Dharma is a quality publication. just
think...it
does not have to come out at all. Be thankful for what you got
and not
for what you don't have.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 01:09:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: What is your agenda Pam?
****IT
IS "SAMPAS"...GET THE SPELLING AS WELL AS THE FACTS STARIGHT
BEFORE
YOU
TAKE SIDES...
Well, I
never said I was a scholar, only a lawyer.
My question is
whether
or not someone is trying to quelch discussions with false
accusations. If so, it doesn't matter to me if it is
Nicosia, Sampas,
Sapras
or Pampras. I am asking a question.
You
seem to have an opinion and you certainly know more about the list
than I
do, but, I will catch up.
I will
spell and mispell as I please or out of ignorance. Spulling is
overrated
anyway.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 01:13:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Man, is there a buzz going on in here or
what?
HOW
ABOUT THE SAMPASES SELLING THE ESTATE "PIECEMEAL"..IS THAT NOT
SLANDER?
If they
have not done this, it might be. My
question was, what is this
all
about? I do not bring any defined ideas
to the table. And I am
entitled
to ask. Have they sold off portions of
the estate? Do you
know? Just tell me what you know, back channel is
fine.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 22:25:27 -0700
Reply-To: goyozura@earthlink.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Zura
<goyozura@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: please remove me
REMOVE
BEAT-L Gregory Zura
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 01:46:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Clarify this situation
Obviously
this thing is hotter than I expected. I
want to make it clear
to
everyone, I have spoken, once on the phone with Mr. Nicosia. As a
lawyer
I am interested in his story, which I picked up from a search on
beats
on a web search engine. I have
requested that members back
channel
me with information on this dispute.
I will
not make public, even to Nicosia any bc mail.
And if I were to
ever
get involved with the Nicosia in any legal action, I will post this
to the
group. I do not want anyone to share
any thoughts or ideas with
me,
unless you understand that I intend to speak again with Nicosia, but
will
not republish any bc mail to him without your express consent.
Just a
lawyerly warning to try to keep it straight.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 01:52:04 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: the list
Paul,
Thanks
for posting this list of items. I mean
that.
A few
honest questions:
1). Are all of these items originals? I know what a holograph is and I know
what a
typescript is so I am asuming they're are originals. Is that corret?
2). Are all the letters listed originals?
3). Are the notebooks listed Jack's breast
pocket notebooks?
4). Are any of these items photocopies or other
reproductions?
5). Have these items been "Sold",
"Donated", "Loaned" or are they "On
Deposit"?
Also,
Paul, I'd be careful about insinuating that anyone who is on the Beat-L
who may
not agree with you is not a *real* fan of Kerouac. If we weren't
*all*
real fans of Kerouac's we wouldn't be here to begin with and we
certainly
woudn't be so passionate about this issue.
Secondly,
while this list you'll be publishing in the KQ is valuable and
important,
it is *not* evidence that accusations of selling off items
piecemeal
are unsubstantiated. As a matter of
fact a number of people on
the
Beat-L are known to have been involved in various transactions, so
obviously
items were bought and sold.
Lastly,
you say, "Be thankful for what you got and not for what you don't
have". What a curious thing to say. I would submit to everyone that a valid
argument
could be made that the *only* reason these items on your list are
being
properly addressed is because Gerry Nicosia and Jan Kerouac made such a
public
spectacle that John Sampas had no choice in this. He had to do
something
to show he's doing the right thing.
I do
appreciate your efforts to shine light on the topic, Paul. I may not
agree
with some of your conclusions, but I'm glad you're saying what you
know. I respect that.
Regards,
Jerry
Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 00:33:09 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Pearson
<digress@ELLENSBURG.COM>
Subject: Re: Nice people swallow..
At
12:58 PM 5/21/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>>
General man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
>Sure!
No problem ;)
>
>HOW
TO SUCK COCK
This is
not why I subscribe,
still it's a fertile topic for
sanguine humor
though I wonder, you hate them like
that?
or do you unlike them unlike that?
And "forwarding" this from
someone else
raises concerns.....we want your angle
on this
though it's only mental.
Respectully,
just another swingin' little guy who
wants to
know what you know, without being
invasive
or raising your hackles, kitty!
www.ellensburg.com/~digress
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 03:44:56 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: a calm request
Derek,
Marie, Lisa, et al...
I agree
a lot of this is distasteful. I agree
too much of it is juvenile.
But it
is serving a very large purpose.
Look at
who does *nothing* but shout and moan.
The very same people who
refuse
to answer honest questions. These
people have raised the level of
rhetoric
time and time again because they have no legitimate argument to
make. Now Chaput is calling for a truce. Why?
Because he knows he's
beaten. Tracy gave him a gift by asking if he was
really serious about his
"Gerry
is a thief because he xeroxed Jack's letters" post which allowed him
to come
back with "it was a joke".
Is
everybody out there blind to all this?
I hate the namecalling too, but
that's
not what this is about. This is about
JACK KEROUAC'S ARCHIVES. What
have we
*ever* discussed that is more important than that?
This is
an issue that has to be discussed. And
private emails won't cut it.
I agree everyone should tone down the
namecalling and shouting, but we've
got to
keep talking about it on the Beat-L.
It's the public forum that
exposes
the truth and exposes motivations.
If Jack
Kerouac's archives aren't important to you, then hit the delete
button. If we stop talking about this now then the
people who want to hide
the
truth will have won. And the people
calling for this topic to be halted
will
have helped silence the truth.
Jerry
Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 04:17:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: the knights who say, all right allready!
In-Reply-To:
<199705222148.OAA12515@norway.it.earthlink.net>
meester
nicosia wrote:
"The
trouble is, Mr. Chaput can keep posting these lies faster than I
can
answer them, since I am also answering Anstee and the other cheap-shot
artists
at the same time"
a
solution: just cc: mr chaput and mr anstee and who and what ever, and go
off
line with it.
and for
motivation to have some respect for others on list/ by so doing,
the
winner of this piss contest will recieve an all expenses paid visit to
the
m.ppython 'argument clinic'
wearily
mc
.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 02:05:28 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
In-Reply-To:
<v01510100afaa6a52df2c@[128.125.223.188]>
At
09:08 PM 5/22/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>
>>Ummm..Im
sorry, but I don't fill over 200+ subscribers a day with probably
>>over
100k of crap about whose a liar, whose fucking who, who is screwed
>>who,
and who believed who about what where and when. Thats great that you
>>liek
to read the posts, but unfortunately, the majority of the list seems
>>to
disagree with you and there has been many polite and unpolite requests
>>to
move all estate battles to another list (ie start your own) so that the
>>rest
of us who use email for other then gossip mills can actually
>>participate
in conversations that can be enjoyed by all.
>
>Given
that there are 200 people on the list (according to your post) and
>there
have been a few complaints about "the fight", i cannot see how you
>can
know a majority of the list agrees.
First
off, its roughly 232 people that are on this list. If you are so
inclined
to know how many here is, just email: majordomo@cunyvm.cuny.edu
body of
text: who beat-l
Will
tell you how many people are currently on the list. If the list is
done by
listproc@cunyvm.cuny.edu, the commands will be different.
Now, I
am "assuming" that you know nothing of how a list works. Let me give
a breif
tutorial.
A list
is generated to talk about something specific topic, such as this
one is
generated about Beat Liteature/related topics. Generally, majority
of the
people lurk, but there are those who are heavy contributors, such as
Patricia,
Leon, Race--, Marie, James Stauffer (plus I know there are many
heavy
contributors out there, im not slighting you out, im just naming
names
i've seen recently). These people have made heavy contributation to
the
list. There are others such as myself who lurk and make minimal
contribution
and finally there are those who say nothing at all.
Now,
when majority of the those who make a voice on this list and more or
less
set the beat of the beat list. Doesn't mean they own the list per se,
but
obviously they are here to discuss BEAT LITERATURE/related topics and
want to
see that it continues. This also doesn't mean that others can't
contribute,
but, "someone" has to take the lead in starting conversations,
because
if someone doesn' the list will go dead because people are afraid
to say
something. And I am always grateful to
the input and information
about
various and sundry things beat, because that is "Why" i am here, is
to
learn more about a "subject" (for lack of a better word) that
intrests
me
wholly.
And
seeing as 'majority' of those that contribute (as well as myself) feel
that
this has gone way out of control, it can be safely said that its the
lists
voice that does not want the 'saga' to continue. Its boring, its
backbiting
and its worthless. Its become nothing but gossip treadmil of
insults,
backbiting and immaturity.
>
>But,
aside from this claim, I feel sad at this attitude.
Thats
your opinion, which you are more then rightly entitled to have. Does
not
mean I have to agree with you.
>
>Your
statement above is the same as those who banned howl so many years ago.
You sir
have just stepped out of bounds. You know nothing about me and my
comment
nor anyones has NOTHING to do with censorship of anything. It has
to do
with the bad taste and the bullshit this list has nothing to do with
literature
or anything else. I prefer not to get close to a hundred
messages
a day from ONE list about a subject that pretains nothing to the
list
whatso ever. Its gone beyond simple matter of what happened to a full
out
flame war, which, is poor netiquette.
>
>Just
cause you and a majority are offended by something you want to ban it.
>The
cry of the censors througout history.
>
Oh for
christsakes, grow up. Your acting as immature and as childish as
those
who were participating in the war. This is NOT about censorship, book
burning
or anything else. Its about common sense and having MANNERS. I am
NOT the
only one who feels this way, but I may be the most vocal.
and it is
MY right to voice my opinion because if I don't agree with
something,
I sure as hell am not going to sit back and let it just roll on
by
thinking someone else will talk for me.
ttfn.
lisa
--
Lisa M.
Rabey
Internet
and Computer Consultant
San
Francisco, California
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
**************************************
General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 02:18:35 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: Re: a calm request
In-Reply-To:
<970523034455_-196546180@emout15.mail.aol.com>
At
03:44 AM 5/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Derek,
Marie, Lisa, et al...
>
>I
agree a lot of this is distasteful. I
agree too much of it is juvenile.
>But
it is serving a very large purpose.
Im
sorry, but I don't see how backbiting, name calling, getting lawyer in
the
mix, and other going ons are 'helping' anything.
>
>Look
at who does *nothing* but shout and moan.
The very same people who
>refuse
to answer honest questions. These
people have raised the level of
>rhetoric
time and time again because they have no legitimate argument to
>make. Now Chaput is calling for a truce. Why?
Because he knows he's
>beaten. Tracy gave him a gift by asking if he was
really serious about his
>"Gerry
is a thief because he xeroxed Jack's letters" post which allowed him
>to
come back with "it was a joke".
Im
sorry, I thought Mr. Chaputs letter was one of the nicest ones this list
has
generated in a long time. To stand back and say "hey, this is getting
ridiculas"
and stepping away has nothing to do with being 'beaten' but
perhaps
showing a bit more maturity then some of the people on here are
even
wanting to show. This is NOT a list dedicated to will/probate what
have
you of Jack's stuff, its about beat literature and until now, has been
quit
nice filler for information about the people behind the books and the
books
themselves as well as other related topics. Its now turned into a
National
Enquirer via email. If I wanted to read trash, I would walk my ass
down to
the store and buy a copy.
>
>Is
everybody out there blind to all this?
I hate the namecalling too, but
>that's
not what this is about. This is about
JACK KEROUAC'S ARCHIVES. What
>have
we *ever* discussed that is more important than that?
Its
gone beyond his archives. Its gone to being nothing but a whose got a
bigger
dick then the other person.
Whats
next? Pulling my pigtails to show that you like me?
>
>This
is an issue that has to be discussed.
And private emails won't cut it.
> I
agree everyone should tone down the namecalling and shouting, but we've
>got
to keep talking about it on the Beat-L.
It's the public forum that
>exposes
the truth and exposes motivations.
Again,
I disagree with you. The issue has been
beaten into the ground so
many
goddamn times its worse then the old "men vs woman" stand by. And I
even
suggested that you CREATE your own listserv so that those who were
intersted
in this could subscribe and bitch to their hearts content.
Hell,
email bryanf@samurai.com
He owns
his own server and handles listservs for free.
Just
tell him that you want one and he will set it up, hell even tell him I
sent
ya!
>
>If
Jack Kerouac's archives aren't important to you, then hit the delete
>button. If we stop talking about this now then the
people who want to hide
>the
truth will have won. And the people
calling for this topic to be halted
>will
have helped silence the truth.
You
know what? (Forgiv me Patricia) Fuck off. This list generates way too
much
mail. And I don't know about the rest of you out there, but *this*
account
alone gets roughly 500 messages a day for personal email/business
and now
*some* lists. I like this list. I have met many really nice people,
especially
since I moved to the SF area, and if you think I am going to
quietly
die, your are quite mistaken. And again, it has nothing to do with
his
archieves, its a damn pissing contest/whose got the bigger balls and
the
rest of the nonsense. Its pure bullshit. Get off your ego trip and
realize THAT truth.
</rant>
ttfn.
Lisa
--
Lisa M.
Rabey
Internet
and Computer Consultant
San
Francisco, California
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
**************************************
General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.