=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 14:08:47 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Re: a calm request

 

Jerry,

 

        Can I borrow your sig file? It was the best part of the whole riposte!

 

                ....which was right-on!

 

                        Antoine

 

A general person-liking "I don't claim to be better than anyone else" guy.

 

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

     "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"

                        -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 14:46:24 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz kirby

Subject:      lawyers in the mix

 

Im sorry, but I don't see how backbiting, name calling, getting lawyer

in

the mix, and other going ons are 'helping' anything.

 

woah, as a lawyer, I am like the government and I am here to help.

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 14:47:35 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: more thoughts to ponder:on debate vs mudslinging,

              passion vs aggression

In-Reply-To:  Message of Fri, 23 May 1997 07:08:22 -0400 from

              <country@SOVER.NET>

 

Yea, Marie's right...let's let all this agression go!

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 14:50:42 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: rants raves and other quandries

In-Reply-To:  Message of Fri, 23 May 1997 08:35:33 -0400 from <cake@IONLINE.NET>

 

On Fri, 23 May 1997 08:35:33 -0400 M. Cakebread said:

>At 02:05 AM 5/23/97 -0700, Lisa Rabey wrote:

>

>>This is NOT about censorship, book burning or anything else.

>>Its about common sense and having MANNERS. I am

>>NOT the only one who feels this way, but I may be the

>>most vocal.

>

>Hey Lisa et al,

>

>I don't believe the issue is "censorship."  Nobody wants

>the estate/papers discussion to end (major part of Kerouac

>history).  I think the general plea has been for the

>mean, sarcastic, cheap-shots to be done in private

>e-mail.  This isn't censorship, it is a request that people

>stick to the facts and be respectful of one another.  We

>may not all agree on things, but were does meaness,

>sarcasm and daggers get us, NOWHERE!  Just back into

>a stupid repetative cycle of bullshit.  Just my feelings.

>Flame away...

>

>Mike

 

Mike, you're absolutely right.  The Kerouac Archives are an important topic for

the list but we've had too much repetition and too much name calling.  Everyone

on the list now has heard both sides of the argument.  If there's anthing new,

I'm sure all of us would appreciate hearing it in a CIVIL, NON-AGRESSIVE forum.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 12:52:55 CDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Wes Lundburg <wlundburg@MAIL.FF.CC.MN.US>

Subject:      Re: Music...

 

Hello, Bruce!  You're not dragging ME in kicking and screaming... I love

discussing the beats and jazz (these are a couple of my favorite things).  As a

lover of be-bop and all forms of jazz, I would strongly recommend immersing

yourself in Charlie Parker ("Bebop and Bird, Vol 1" is a good intro), John

Coltrane (a favorite of mine, for its interpretive power, is "My Favorite

Things"), as well as Dizzy Gillespie and a hundred others as well.  Just allow

yourself to be caught up in the music's movement.  It speaks.  It is poetic.

About six months ago, I reread _On The Road_ with Parker playing in the

background as I read, and some portions of the novel were so much more powerful

as a result.

 

I can't emphasize it enough... develop your own perspective on the relationship

between bebop and the beats.  As I reread that sentence, it could be taken

wrong: don't take it wrong.  I'm perfectly serious when I say that developing

your own perspective will be the best approach... developing your own means

creating your own, personal experience around the blown music and the written

words.

 

This may be useful to you: In teaching a novel course last quarter, I played

some Charlie Parker in class, pointing out how he deviates from the established

pattern of the musical rhythm (which is maintained by other band members as a

background), punctuating certain parts of the tune.  We were reading Ralph

Ellison's _Invisible Man_ at the time, so we read portions (the dream sequences)

of the novel immediately after listening to Parker.  Students--all of whom were

skeptical when I walked in with my boom box, mind you--were amazed at the

similarities in such apparently different mediums.  Ellison uses certain

repetitive words in the same way that Parker uses certain repetitive notes.  I

think the same can work for Kerouac, et al... especially for someone like you,

who likes jazz and loves the beats.

 

Hope this helps...

 

Regards,

---Wes

 

 

>Beat friends,

>

> I've started to have a quiet conversation off list with Ms. Laura Moja

>(of

>Ufficio Stampa Teatro Smeraldo http:/www4.iol.it/smeraldo) concerning the

>connection between Music and the Beats.  Having virtually no hard knowledge

>of Parker, Diz, Monk, and the boys, my side of the conversation has been

>mostly limited to a few ideas I've been considering about Coltrane.  So, I

>figured it might be a good idea to drag this list, kicking and screaming,

>into the discussion and hope that it might spark at least a side thread for

>those who are bored with WWIII.

>        Antoine, I know you're out there buddy, what can you offer up?  What

>was

>about be-bop that so enthralled the entire scene?  Don't get me wrong, I

>dig the music, but my tastes slip a bit further up the timeline to hard bop

>& free jazz.  Be-bop seems such a "happy" music, at least the bit I've been

>exposed to.

>

>My best to all,

>

>Bruce

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 14:57:43 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz kirby

Subject:      Beat History

 

Would Tom Wolfe of Electric Koolaid Acid Test and Hunter Thompson of

Fear and Loathing qualify as "beat."

 

And yet, I am wondering if there is not at least two threads of

literature throughout history.  I don't know enough and am not well read

enough to deal with this idea on my own.  But it seems to me that you

have two spirits, one which is the "voice" of society and the other

which is the "voice" of those who are beaten out of society.  If so, it

would run throughout time.  I would like to know if any literary

teachers, commentators etc, have ever explored the idea.  Back to Homer,

was he beat or was he society.  What about Thomas Aquianas?  Maybe this

too large of an idea, but I would like to see the result of a study of

this idea.  We have always been beat.

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 15:00:07 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Ann Charters Interview

 

A number of weeks ago we were told on the Beat-l by a number of people we

should be doing our own research.  As some people said the Ann Charters

Interview by Dan Barth would shed some light on the topic I asked (twice) for

someone to summarize what it said.  No one did.

 

I would like to thank Greg Severance on this list.  Greg E-mailed Dan Barth

directly asking Dan to forward me the interview.  Dan did so and here is my

summary:

 

The article is probably about 5000 words.  Barth interviewed Charters on

3/28/95 in San Francisco while Ann was on a West Coast tour for Jack Kerouac:

Selected Letters Pt I, 1940-1956.  Most of the interview focuses on Ann

Charters' life and background, the book tour, the book itself, various JK

letters in general and in particular.  About 1000 words or so concerns itself

with the Kerouac estate debate.

 

To summarize, Ann Charters does not say anything that disagrees with what

Gerry Nicosia has been saying from the day he joined this list.  To the

contrary, what she does say *substantiates* the points Nicosia has been

making all along.  A quote:

 

 

Dan Barth:  As far as you know has there been any selling off piecemeal?

 

Ann Charters:  There has been some.  I don't know how much because Sampas

doesn't tell me.  Why should he?  I'm not getting any income from it and I

don't, frankly, have a relationship with John Sampas that is one of

confidante.  I work for hire, his terms.  He gets the final say on

everything.

 

 

Well, folks, I've done my due diligence.  Ann Charters may not be talking on

this list and she may not be the president of the Gerry Nicosia fan club, but

she doesn't contradict his arguments either, at least not in this interview.

 In fact, she supports them.

 

By the way, before sending this out I e-mailed Dan Barth summarizing for him

my conclusions and asking his permission to post this summary.  He e-mailed

me back saying my conclusions sounded accurate to him and to feel free to

post it to the list.

 

 

Jerry Cimino

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 15:07:12 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz kirby

Subject:      Re: Open Letter to Mr. Nicosia

 

Wes Lundburg wrote:

 

> Mr. Nicosia:

>

> I'm glad you're moving on to other topics, Mr. Nicosia.  As Mr.

> Bealieu said,

> we're glad you're here and look forward to your contributions to

> beat-l.  This

> is a weird kind of community in cyberspace.  Sometimes I love the

> list, and

> other times I don't... but my family is kind of like that, too.

> There's a

> certain wisdom in knowing when to drop an issue.

>

> All the best, and with immense respect,

>

> ---Wes Lundburg

> wlundburg@mail.ff.cc.mn.us

 

I signed onto this list because of my love for the works of Jack

Kerouac, and other beat poets.  To be able to be on a list where I can

receive comments from Gerry Nicosia, I can not think of a better place

to be.   As a lawyer, I say fight out the other stuff in the courtroom.

No point in being cross examined from your posts to this news group.

And I would not want to lose Gerry's imput because of this type of

atmosphere.

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 13:24:48 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nick Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Music...

 

What Wes says is so right - but remember also it wasn't coincidental - the

way Charlie Parker played was a huge influence on how they all wrote, and

certainly at some points you can see a concious effort to do in words what

the be-bop players were doing with music.  Jack wrote some jazz criticism as

well, was really into it all, in fact the main reason I love his writing

more than the others so much is the way he captures the swing of bop

 

Nick

 

>Hello, Bruce!  You're not dragging ME in kicking and screaming... I love

>discussing the beats and jazz (these are a couple of my favorite things).  As a

>lover of be-bop and all forms of jazz, I would strongly recommend immersing

>yourself in Charlie Parker ("Bebop and Bird, Vol 1" is a good intro), John

>Coltrane (a favorite of mine, for its interpretive power, is "My Favorite

>Things"), as well as Dizzy Gillespie and a hundred others as well.  Just allow

>yourself to be caught up in the music's movement.  It speaks.  It is poetic.

>About six months ago, I reread _On The Road_ with Parker playing in the

>background as I read, and some portions of the novel were so much more powerful

>as a result.

>

>I can't emphasize it enough... develop your own perspective on the relationship

>between bebop and the beats.  As I reread that sentence, it could be taken

>wrong: don't take it wrong.  I'm perfectly serious when I say that developing

>your own perspective will be the best approach... developing your own means

>creating your own, personal experience around the blown music and the written

>words.

>

>This may be useful to you: In teaching a novel course last quarter, I played

>some Charlie Parker in class, pointing out how he deviates from the established

>pattern of the musical rhythm (which is maintained by other band members as a

>background), punctuating certain parts of the tune.  We were reading Ralph

>Ellison's _Invisible Man_ at the time, so we read portions (the dream

sequences)

>of the novel immediately after listening to Parker.  Students--all of whom were

>skeptical when I walked in with my boom box, mind you--were amazed at the

>similarities in such apparently different mediums.  Ellison uses certain

>repetitive words in the same way that Parker uses certain repetitive notes.  I

>think the same can work for Kerouac, et al... especially for someone like you,

>who likes jazz and loves the beats.

>

>Hope this helps...

>

>Regards,

>---Wes

>

>

>>Beat friends,

>>

>> I've started to have a quiet conversation off list with Ms. Laura Moja

>>(of

>>Ufficio Stampa Teatro Smeraldo http:/www4.iol.it/smeraldo) concerning the

>>connection between Music and the Beats.  Having virtually no hard knowledge

>>of Parker, Diz, Monk, and the boys, my side of the conversation has been

>>mostly limited to a few ideas I've been considering about Coltrane.  So, I

>>figured it might be a good idea to drag this list, kicking and screaming,

>>into the discussion and hope that it might spark at least a side thread for

>>those who are bored with WWIII.

>>        Antoine, I know you're out there buddy, what can you offer up?  What

>>was

>>about be-bop that so enthralled the entire scene?  Don't get me wrong, I

>>dig the music, but my tastes slip a bit further up the timeline to hard bop

>>& free jazz.  Be-bop seems such a "happy" music, at least the bit I've been

>>exposed to.

>>

>>My best to all,

>>

>>Bruce

>

>

**************************************************************************

*Nil Carborundum Illegitimis*

It's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees

 

Nick Weir-Williams

Director, Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208

President, Illinois Book Publishers Association

List Manager, chipub listserv

 

ph:  847 491 8114

fax: 847 491 8150

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 15:15:46 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Beat History

In-Reply-To:  <3385E8A6.CB77F85@scsn.net>

 

On Fri, 23 May 1997, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

 

> Would Tom Wolfe of Electric Koolaid Acid Test and Hunter Thompson of

> Fear and Loathing qualify as "beat."

 

I would say yes to HST, as beat as Dylan or Garcia or Don McNeill could be.

If anything, it's guilt by association & friendships & value sharing,

etc. And a definite no to Wolfe. Yeah he chronicled the bus and helped

develop & compile the New Journalism but he wasn't, in Kesey's words, a

"warrior." HST on the other hand was/is (was?) a definite warrior. Where the

Beat stops and a new generation of warriors take over is anybody's guess --

by the talk on the list about such things it looks like it'll be debated

until it's actual past history and the new warriors are making appearances

on David Letterman explaining the novel they wrote five years earlier about

events a decade past, or something like that.

 

m

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 15:22:54 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz kirby

Subject:      Burroughs

 

>Burroughs, of course, is a whole another ballgame, and I'd be

interested as well

 >in hearing what people think

>influenced him.

 

was posted by Mark.  Thanks for the post.  I enjoyed reviewing it.

 

I would suggest his greatest influences were not other writers, they

were, Wilheim Reich, ie orgone box etc., drugs, and life in a whole

nother lane we don't even want to know about.  That is my idea on

Burroughs.  I never "warmed" up to Naked Lunch or the Wild Boys, but

without his work, there would be no Clockwork Orange (at least the

Movie), no Steely Dan (another name), no Alice Cooper etc.

 

Thanks for the ideas.

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 15:40:16 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz kirby

Subject:      Re: Clarify this situation

Comments: To: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>,

          James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

 

Levi Asher wrote:

 

> Some lawyer wrote:

> > I will not make public, even to Nicosia any bc mail.  And if I were

> to

> > ever get involved with the Nicosia in any legal action, I will post

> this

> > to the group.  I do not want anyone to share any thoughts or ideas

> with

> > me, unless you understand that I intend to speak again with Nicosia,

> but

> > will not republish any bc mail to him without your express consent.

> >

> > Just a lawyerly warning to try to keep it straight.

>

> Many weeks ago, when Gerry Nicosia first showed up on this list,

> I wrote a friendly message saying "Glad to have Gerry N. here,

> but I hope we'll talk about things other than estates and wills,

> and that we'll resist all getting dragged down into the legal

> mire together and ruining the friendly atmosphere of the list".

>

> Now half of us hate the other half, and now we've got a lawyer

> telling us to all watch our words.

>

> Way to not get dragged into the mire, guys ...

>

> I'm *this* close to hitting "unsubscribe" -- the only thing

> that's stopping me is that I know Bill Gargan worked hard

> putting this list together and I think it's really pathetic

> the way a few people are shitting all over it, and I don't

> want to give up hope just yet that the list won't survive.

>

> Not that the legal material isn't relevant (but *WE GET

> THE POINT ALREADY*) and not that the personal material

> doesn't have some entertainment value (mostly as sick comedy).

> But enough is enough.  It's time to stop.  And about

> lawyers -- I wouldn't hang out at a party where a lawyer is

> standing there saying "watch your words everybody" and

> I don't intend to hang out at a mailing list where this

> is happening either.

>

> ------------------------------------------------------

>            Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com

>

>    Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/

>             (the beat literature web site)

>

>  Queensboro Ballads: http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/

>              (my fantasy folk-rock album)

>

>           ###################################

>

>           "Tie yourself to a tree with roots"

>                     -- Bob Dylan

> -----------------------------------------------------

 

 No, no no, don't read that wrong.  I am interested in the questions

that are raised and the primary one I am interested in as far as legal

matters goes is whether the collection at UMass-Lowell is properly cared

for.  I just saw in my first night on board that Jerry felt that he has

been slandered and made the point that this can in fact occur.  I

certainly did not mean to "threaten" anyone and did not sign onto the

list as a lawyer, but as a person who has read everything that I could

find or buy by Kerouac and by Thomas Wolfe.  I love Beat writers and

would like to be able to discuss them with the likes of Gerry.  I do not

want to see him run off.

 

Because I was curious about what the agendas were, I invited the posters

to discuss it with me off line, back channel.  Then I realized that I

did not want to mislead anyone.  If offered a case that had merit to it

from Gerry, then I might take it.  At that point, I would no longer be

objective.  I believe strongly, because my trust has been violated on

other lists, that b/c private mail is just that.  And up to the point

that I would get involved, I have no duty to Gerry, Sampas, etc and just

want to learn.

 

As I reflected on my request for information, I realized that if I did

ever get involved as an attorney, someone who had different interests

might think that I "duped" them into giving me information.  Thus, I

just wanted to state very openly who I was and to make sure that anyone

who did elect to back channel me would understand that I probably have a

biasis in favor of Gerry and that they should only talk to me, I could

end up in court on the issue, but would not use the infromation from an

email and would want the "pro Sampas" crowd to be cautious and

understand that I may not ultimately be neutural.

 

I just want full and fair disclosure of the "agenda" that I have, which

is free beer, more sex, and less work, oh yeah, and for the time being,

I continue to admire Gerald.

 

I hope that this brings some clarity to the message.

 

Thanks,

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 12:45:18 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James William Marshall <iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>

Subject:      Beats out of court

 

Here's my attempt at getting the Beats out of court:

1.  What do you think was the impetus for Kerouac's stylistic change after

_The Town and the City_?  Peer pressure?  Jazz?  The freedom which comes

with having that first novel under your belt?

2.  What do you make of Burroughs' use of contemporary music as the score

for some of his spoken word pieces?  Does this move him into the realm of

postmodernism or just show him keeping the beat alive?

3.  Did anyone see Ginsberg reading the lyrics to "Miami" by U2 on the T.V.

show about the making of the album "Pop"?  What did you make of it?  I found

the combination (U2 and Ginsberg) incredibly intriguing.

 

Answer one or all one and all.

Let the bickerers bicker, let the accusors accuse, let the liars lie, let

the lovers love.

                                            James M.

P.S. Whoever said that the anti-estate thread was like the Ginsberg case

over "Howl" remember, "comparisons are odious"(<--Kerouac).

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 12:45:26 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James William Marshall <iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>

Subject:      Re: Stealing

 

     "Ryokan, a Zen master, lived the simplest kind of life in a little hut

at the foot of a mountain.  One evening a thief visited the hut only to

discover there was nothing in it to steal.

     Ryokan returned and caught him.  'You may have come a long way to visit

me,' he told the prowler, 'and you should not return empty-handed.  Please

take my clothes as a gift.'

     The thief was bewildered.  He took the clothes and slunk away.

     Ryokan sat naked, watching the moon.  'Poor fellow,' he mused, 'I wish

I could give him this beautiful moon.'

 

Stolen from _Zen Flesh, Zen Bones:  A Collection of Zen and Pre-Zen

Writings_.  Stolen by Paul Reps.  Callously distributed by Anchor Books.

Thoughtlessly published by Doubleday, 1989.

 

                                                James M. (<--copyrighted)

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 15:59:16 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Beats out of court

In-Reply-To:  <199705231945.MAA09759@freya.van.hookup.net>

 

On Fri, 23 May 1997, James William Marshall wrote:

 

> 1.  What do you think was the impetus for Kerouac's stylistic change after

> _The Town and the City_?  Peer pressure?  Jazz?  The freedom which comes

> with having that first novel under your belt?

 

Yeah, first novel, found his own voice, etc. It seems many times that a

writer's first work is the test that they can actually fulfill it and handle

the form, and in their later stuff they're free to unself-consciously fill

up the pages with what they need to without worrying about novels poems and

form. Like Ginsberg's early works, "Drakar Doldrums" and those other ones.

Completely different form anything he ever did since. Or that WSB co-written

thing about the Star-Spangled Banner. All these works smack of deep thinking

but they're all almost comedically derivative & stereotypical of what they

probably thought "should" be a poem, novel etc. Later the words -- or

thoughts -- just guided themselves, I would say. They learned how to trust

their own minds.

 

 

> 2.  What do you make of Burroughs' use of contemporary music as the score

> for some of his spoken word pieces?  Does this move him into the realm of

> postmodernism or just show him keeping the beat alive?

 

I see it as an extension of his cut-ups and tape exercises of the 60s.

Taking recordings of the spoken word and adding other sounds noises messages

etc. to it, esp. music of the 'young people' -- ie. contemporary music -- to

infiltrate the youth consciousness with his word and further propogate his

life-works.

 

 

> 3.  Did anyone see Ginsberg reading the lyrics to "Miami" by U2 on the T.V.

> show about the making of the album "Pop"?  What did you make of it?  I found

> the combination (U2 and Ginsberg) incredibly intriguing.

 

I would like to see this. Anyone have a tape of it I could copy, or know the

details like what show it was on?

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 15:00:35 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Burroughs and beat history

 

R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

>

>

> I would suggest his greatest influences were not other writers, they

> were, Wilheim Reich, ie orgone box etc., drugs, and life in a whole

> nother lane we don't even want to know about.

 

i think it undersells burroughs to just consider the drug and underworld

side.  some have reported that he turned to that stuff out of boredom.

he studied some anthropology at Harvard before turning away from that

life.  it seems interesting to me that the culture of the time brought

together this group of people from very different backgrounds but all

seemed to have boredom or disenchantment of some sort to life at the

time.

 

i've heard he liked to read about card tricks and detective stories.

Spengler's Decline of the West (which i haven't read) seems to have been

influential.  I'm interested in this sub-thread of the beat history

thread and will do a bit of digging but can certainly use others' help.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 15:05:12 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Burroughs and background music

 

James William Marshall wrote:

>

> 2.  What do you make of Burroughs' use of contemporary music as the score for

 some of his spoken word pieces?

 

i like it.

 

Does this move him into the realm of postmodernism or just show him

keeping the beat alive?

 

i've always thought bill burroughs was postmodern when postmodernists

were in diapers.  hmm.  the use of music seems really connected to his

understanding of the connections between different aesthetics.  but

frankly i don't know if the background music was/is his idea or

something suggested by others which he thought might be ...... (fun?)?

 

david rhaesa

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 16:13:18 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David Makar <dmakar@CCS.NEU.EDU>

Subject:      music and OTR

 

last summer i spent a week along the beach of cape cod 'resting' i spent

most of my time re-reading on the road for a second time. for the longest

time i drifted between reading and sleeping while lying out in the sun

behind the cottage i was staying at. inside my stereo was playing 2 cds

over and over. one was gershwin's greastest hits the other was steely dan

alive in america. i could imagine sal and dean jumping from car to car

from place to place choreographed to the gershwin tunes of the 40's era. i

found the steely dan (named from a wsb line in nl) songs moved the

thinking and feeling of the novel. gershwin's fast mighty loud and soft

tunes carried the action and steely dan carried the american emotion. to

this day as i hear and listen to parts of g or s.d. i can think of

passages from on the road. there's no better way for me to re-live those

great memories. anyone else have similiar or music and reading stories?

 

                        -Dave

 

                    David Makar <dmakar@ccs.neu.edu>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 16:14:53 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz kirby

Subject:      Thomas Pynchon

 

Is Thomas Pynchon beat?  I love, but can't understand, his work.  I am

not sure if he is beat or not.

 

What about TS Elliot?  J Alfred Prufrock seems beat, but there is so

much packed in between the lines and in his references and allusions

that I bet one could never finish a completley annotated version of his

collected works.  On the other hand, we have Old Possum?

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 16:18:27 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Dave Redfern <mushroom@INTERLOG.COM>

Subject:      Jim Carroll & Richard Hell

 

Good Day Beat-L

 

In November '96, in Toronto, I had the pleasure of hosting a reading and

discussion group by Allen Ginsberg.  As a result, through the kind

indulgence of first Michael Cakebread & then Andrew Lampert, Beat-L was

brought to my attention.  Since that time, as time permits, I have been

lurking the list, mining much amusement & information.

 

On June 20, in Toronto, I will be hosting a performance by Jim Carroll &

Richard Hell, two performers who I believe, fall under the beat umbrella.

Anyone who is interested in this event can find additional information on

our web page @ www.interlog.com/~mushroom.  In addition, if anyone has

questions they would like directed at Jim or Dick, let me know and I will

see what I can find out during their stay.

 

The organization that I am a part of, mushroom enterprises, is a loose

collective that seeks to bring alternative views and perspectives to Toronto

audiences.  Past performers hosted include: John Giorno, John Cale, Annie

Sprinkle, Townes Van Zandt (definitely beat), Lydia Lunch, Candida Royale,

Bobby Seale, Michael McClure, Guy Clarke, Fran Lebowitz, Crispin Glover and

AG.  We are always seeking suggestions of suitable artists to promote...

Any and all suggestions from the admirable minds of Beat-L would be appreciated.

 

Cheers

Dave R

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 16:20:13 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz kirby

Subject:      Who was that guy?

 

Diane.

 

--

This sesame seed is bigger than my head!

                                       --the guy from the McDonald's

commercial

 

--

Who was the guy who did a comic strip/book, Never Eat Anything Bigger

Than Your Head?

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 16:21:22 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz kirby

Subject:      San Francisco

 

I will be traveling to San Francisco in early June.  I intend to go to

City Lights.  Can anyone offer ideas on particularly "beat" sites to

check out.  Thanks.

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 16:24:33 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Jim Carroll & Richard Hell

In-Reply-To:  <1.5.4.16.19970523130626.3e27166c@mail.interlog.com>

 

dave!

so wonderful to hear that richard hell (who saved, in part, the 70s for me)

is on the road with jim carroll, who i've followed from the start: do you

think that audios will become available from tour?

brings to my mind televsion, as well

crinlkly yet wet stained wallpaper on boarding house stairs, the real bite.

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 16:29:50 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      Re: San Francisco

In-Reply-To:  <3385FC42.2528A746@scsn.net>

 

On Fri, 23 May 1997, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

 

> I will be traveling to San Francisco in early June.  I intend to go to

> City Lights.  Can anyone offer ideas on particularly "beat" sites to

> check out.

 

Besides the front of the store where a legendary beat photo was taken with

lf, nc, rl and others, I hear they got a whole isle in the back dedicated to

just beat authors.

 

har har har

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 16:33:26 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz kirby

Subject:      Ethical lawyers are beat??????

 

Subject:

             FYI: New Illinois Ethics Opinion on E-mail

 Resent-From:

             tech@scbar.org

        Date:

             Fri, 23 May 1997 16:05:52 -0500

        From:

             cgm@npjp.com

    Reply-To:

             tech@scbar.org

          To:

             tech@scbar.org

         CC:

             sross@interlegal.com

 

I thought beat was beaten and beatific, so I thought maybe I would

inquire to see if anyone is interested in the most recent opinions by

the Illinois Bar about "ethics" and lawyers.  From my experience as a

lawyer, Billy the Kid had more than many lawyers I know!!!!  Not to

mention Billy the Burroughs!!!!

 

Well, what about Gravity's Rainbow and the erection signaling a V-2

rocket incoming. I thought that was beat.  What about lawyer's with

ethics, umm, that doesn't seem beat to me.  I guess I will not send the

body of the post.

 

And hey, sarcasm rules on the web, check out the twinkle in my

typing!!!!  ;-)

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 15:38:53 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      old hippy trying to remember san fransisco.

 

when i was young old, i went to san fransisco and went to hear a local

read, bokowski,  he sat on a stage in an movie theatre and read.  he sat

on a lawn chair with a small refrigerator next to him and he pulled out

beers during the reading.  During questions one man who had asked

stupick anal questions like do you think you write real literature asked

if he thought any one would take him serious if he sat there and drank

beer.  B's response was to say, here have one, then proceeded to throw

an open beer to the guy, it twirling like a helocopter blade sprewing us

all.  We sat there thinking wow.  now that guy had to be beat related.

I wish i could figure out what theatre that was.  there were many great

readings there.

patricia

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 13:51:46 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Lisa M. Rabey" <lisar@NET-LINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: lawyers in the mix

In-Reply-To:  <3385E5FF.2FC14DAA@scsn.net>

 

At 02:46 PM 5/23/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Im sorry, but I don't see how backbiting, name calling, getting lawyer

>in

>the mix, and other going ons are 'helping' anything.

>

>woah, as a lawyer, I am like the government and I am here to help.

>

 

hahaha..

*laughing till i peed my pants*

 

you should give your day job.

yr pretty goddamn funny.

 

ttfn.

 

lisa

--

 

Lisa M. Rabey

Internet and Computer Consultant

San Francisco, California

http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye

**************************************

General man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 14:00:31 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Lisa M. Rabey" <lisar@NET-LINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: old hippy trying to remember san fransisco.

In-Reply-To:  <3386005D.368C@sunflower.com>

 

At 03:38 PM 5/23/97 -0500, you wrote:

>when i was young old, i went to san fransisco and went to hear a local

>read, bokowski,  he sat on a stage in an movie theatre and read.  he sat

>on a lawn chair with a small refrigerator next to him and he pulled out

>beers during the reading.  During questions one man who had asked

>stupick anal questions like do you think you write real literature asked

>if he thought any one would take him serious if he sat there and drank

>beer.  B's response was to say, here have one, then proceeded to throw

>an open beer to the guy, it twirling like a helocopter blade sprewing us

>all.  We sat there thinking wow.  now that guy had to be beat related.

>I wish i could figure out what theatre that was.  there were many great

>readings there.

>patricia

>

>

 

patricia:

if you can remember the name of the theater, of anything that might be of

interest to me (which would be just about anything), please let me know.

ive gotten in contact with a few of the beat-l'ers since im living in

frisco now. plus buk is one of my favs and am greatly interested in

anything he does.

 

ttfn.

 

"The most beautiful woman in town"

--

 

Lisa M. Rabey

Internet and Computer Consultant

San Francisco, California

http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye

**************************************

General man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 14:20:45 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: San Francisco

 

Walk up the street (Broadway) north a couple of blocks from City Lights.  On

the the right there a small park and a cathedral across the street from it.

(I think the cross street may be Stockton).

 

I think this is mentioned in Big Sur, or if not in real life kerouac laid

there and drank beer with Philip Whalen.

 

At 04:21 PM 5/23/97 -0400, you wrote:

>I will be traveling to San Francisco in early June.  I intend to go to

>City Lights.  Can anyone offer ideas on particularly "beat" sites to

>check out.  Thanks.

>

>--

>

>Peace,

>

>Bentz

>bocelts@scsn.net

>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 14:36:14 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Lisa M. Rabey" <lisar@NET-LINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: a calm request

In-Reply-To:  <970523124937_1557891213@emout05.mail.aol.com>

 

At 12:49 PM 5/23/97 -0400, you wrote:

>To the "General man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick...

 

For clarification, this "long nick name" was given to me by a friend of

mine. its meant to be sarcastic.

 

>

>Lisa, you may think you know more than the rest of us, and God Bless you I'm

>sure you do about some things, but that doesn't give you the right to tell

>everyone else what to do.

 

I have nor will I ever tell anyone "what to do". I am not the only person

who is sick of the bullshit.  What I have done is state my opionion, which

is my right to do. And if you don't like what *I* have to say then you can

delete my posts as well. I gave you and the handfull of those involved

another option: Start your own list. And those who want to hear the gossip

treadmill can happily subscribe to that list as well. I joined this list to

learn more about something that intrested me, not to hear bullshit and

gossip between those that  are in the know. Excuse me for being born when

majority of these people were out fucking/drinking/smoking and writing.

Many of the names mentioned are irrelevent to me because they are side

characters in this huge drama.  You seem to forget that not everyone here

is as clued in to the 'scene' as you are.

 

>

>Lisa, if you're getting 500 e-mails a day why don't you figure out a way to

>manage that. I'm no tech heavy but I figured out very early on that AOL

>allows me to have more than one screen name and this one you see here is

>dedicated to the Beat-l only.  If a techno-phobe like me can manage that

>trick it oughta be a slam dunk for somene who prides herself on her technical

>prowess.

 

Excuse me? Perhaps if you simmered down on your anger, you would re-read

what I wrote in the first place. This account "used" to genereate 500 mails

a day, till I moved some stuff over to another address. I have 15 email

accounts, with three being active and of two being primary. The world does

not exist around AOL or any of its subsidaries. The only reason I kept this

list on this account is because of the volume of mail it generates, and

lately half of it being bullshit.

 

>

>Congratulations, Lisa, you're the first person to ever tell me to "Fuck-Off"

>on this or any other list.  Put's you in very good company with the

>ever-mature Mr. Chaput who's very first post to Nicosia included the essence

>of maturity "Fuck You Gerry".

 

I pride myself on being non conformist.

 

>

>Lisa, you amaze me in other ways too.

 

I amaze a lot of people it seems.

 

>You say you're on "auto-delete" for

>all estate related posts and then proceed to tell us everything that is being

>said.  You are one

>amazing person.

 

Again, you are misquoting me. I never said I had the list on 'auto delete'.

This mail comes through Eudora, a gui mail client. After reading the first

couple of thousand messages over the last few months that I said to hell

with it. Kept watch on the thread and delted anything having to do with the

estate sage.  Then it died down for awhile, then I moved my mail, and

started reading again. Thats when I picked up on the tread and saw all the

complaints. Now, if I hadn't been delting the messages like i have been for

the past month or longer, would I have NOT voiced myself sooner? Yes

genuis! I would have. It wasn't till i saw all the complaints about it,

kept reading more of the thread that I deceided to speak up.

 

>

>With all due respect to you and evryone else calling for the silencing of

>this thread - hit your delete keys.  Unsubscribe.  Do whatever floats your

>boat, but don't you dare tell me this topic is not relevant.

 

 

jerry, jerry, jerry, jerry, jerry <patronizing>. You don't own this list.

The topic of Jack's archieves is yes important, but not the bullshit and

the lying, the namecalling and the backstabbing, and everything else

inbetween. Plus jack is NOT the only beat that lived!!!!  and i will no

unsubscribe nor will i keep my mouth shut. I have just as much say here as

YOU do about what is relevent and what is not relevent on the list. And

maybe if you stepped back and looked at WHY people are asking for the

silencing of the thread, you would see why so many people are so upset.

 

And another reason why this gets me, is because i live with this shit day

in and day out. my bf is a media personality. i have to deal with the

rumors, the namecalling, the slander, the 'is <insert bf's name> home?"

with me going "sorry you have the wrong number". Its an invasion of

privacy. We don't want our personal life dragged into the public spotlight,

and what YOU and many other people seem to forget that is that is what your

mainly doing when you bring up all the old gossip threadmills and the

fighting over who has a bigger dick. Its lost all its meaning for being

about jack's archieves, and you know it.

 

>The tone is

>harsh, yes.  And no one recognizes that more than me.  And you aren't helping

>to calm it by telling me or anyone else to "Fuck-Off".  But the topic is

>relevant as hell.

 

Its only relevant because your involved. If you weren't I highly doubt that

you would be saying any of this nor making a big fuss over any of it.

Personally, I could care less. I stated my opinion, and people replied. I

am not on any sides here, nor do I want to be.

 

 

>

>

>Jerry Cimino

>*************************************************************************

>A general person-liking "I don't claim to be better than anyone else" guy.

>

>

 

 

Yes, your so original, that you had to steal my sig? *laugh* Whatever

floats your boat!

 

ps: don't piss on the electric fence!

 

 

ttfn.

 

lisa

--

 

Lisa M. Rabey

Internet and Computer Consultant

San Francisco, California

http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye

**************************************

General man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 17:46:40 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeff Durand <LCKerouac@AOL.COM>

Subject:      FYI: Lowell CELEBRATES Kerouac!

 

For those interested in Celebrating Jack Kerouac and his art in the

company of friends and fellow enthusiasts, the 10th Annual Lowell

Celebrates Kerouac! Festival will be 2-5 October 1997, in Lowell, MA. The

3rd Annual Beat Literature Conference sponsored by UMASS-Lowell will take

place 3 October at the University.

 

This year's theme will be "Kerouac Celebrates Lowell" and will include a

tribute  to Allen Ginsberg.

 

More soon. We're putting the schedule together now. I've spoken with the

Sheraton Hotel and they will make rooms available at a special rate to

festival goers as they did last year.

 

If you want to be on a direct email list, send me your address. If you

want our hard copy mailing, send me your postal address. We are also

working on a web site for this year's event.

 

Mark Hemenway

President, Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!, Inc

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 18:35:02 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Jim Carroll & Richard Hell

 

At 04:18 PM 5/23/97 -0400, David Redfern wrote:

 

>On June 20, in Toronto, I will be hosting a performance by

>Jim Carroll & Richard Hell

 

Hmm, why do things always fall on the day of a final exam?!?!?!

Why do Intersession finals always seem to fall on my birthday?!?

My final exams in Aug. better not mess with Dylan dates or

else!!! {;^>

 

Keep up the great work David!!  Keep bringing em to

Toronto!!

 

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 18:35:48 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Dawn B. Sova" <DawnDR@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: rants raves and other quandries

 

Dear R. Bentz Kirby:

 

Welcome to the list -- I'm fairly new to it myself --- but the animosities

and accusations that flowed much more freely about three weeks ago revealed a

lot.  Glad to see a "legal" viewpoint -- that might change the tone of many

exchanges.

 

Dawn

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 18:39:07 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: a calm request

 

Well, Lisa, like I said, you are one amazing person.

 

And regarding your "long nick name", it's obvious your friend knows you quite

well.

 

 

Hey, Lisa, I'd love to match wits with you further, but my parents drilled it

into me as a young man that I should not duel with an unarmed opponent.

 

ta ta,

 

 

Jerry Cimino

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 15:39:42 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: Early Morning Thoughts

 

  How on earth did Mr. Chaput know of that phone call?

>>I can't imagine his radio is so powerful he picks up San Francisco stations

>>in Lowell, Massachusetts?

>

>(note****a tape of this radio conversation has widely circulated from a

>source unnamed in California...)

>

                                        (Paul A. Maher)

 

Dear Paul:        May 23, 1997

 

        Your apologetics for Mr. Chaput and Mr. Sampas give me a hearty laugh.

        I suppose Jan Kerouac's income tax returns were also "widely

circulated from a source unnamed in California."

        Widely circulated?  How many people on the Beat-List have received a

copy of the KQED radio show from San Francisco on which George Tobia talks

about Jan Kerouac selling a warrant that belonged to her mother?  Don't all

raise your hands at once.  (Chaput, please put your hand down--we know you

have one.)

        Off to shoot some hoops,

        Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 18:41:13 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: rants raves and other quandries

 

At 06:35 PM 5/23/97 -0400, Dawn B. Sova wrote:

 

>Glad to see a "legal" viewpoint -- that might change

>the tone of many exchanges.

 

Sez the spider to da fly...

 

ekiM

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 18:44:15 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: old hippy trying to remember san fransisco.

 

At 03:38 PM 5/23/97 -0500, Patricia wrote:

>when i was young old, i went to san fransisco and went to hear a local

>read, bokowski,  he sat on a stage in an movie theatre and read.

 

Sounds like the "Red Vic" (I believe that's the name - there's

a bed'n'breakfast next door?) on Haight St.

 

Could be my faulty circuiting?

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 19:01:45 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Dawn B. Sova" <DawnDR@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Nice people swallow..

 

Dear David:

 

PRICELESS response re: the potential website!!!

 

Dawn

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 19:40:20 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: Beats out of court

In-Reply-To:  Message of Fri, 23 May 1997 12:45:18 -0700 from

              <iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>

 

Just to start the ball rolling, I think there were several things that

contributed to Kerouac's change of style.  Holmes once mentioned that he

thought the war seemed to speed life up for his generation.  Maybe this

was reflected in the newmusic and maybe the beat of the music caused

them to feel time in a different way. Drugs may also have played a role

in terms of Kerouac's changing style.  And there was Neal Cassady--the

fastest man alive--and his famous Joan Anderson letter.  I'm tired and

thinking to clearly now but I'll be glad to jump on this thread again if

people want to continue it.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 18:28:16 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: old hippy trying to remember san fransisco.

 

M. Cakebread wrote:

>

> At 03:38 PM 5/23/97 -0500, Patricia wrote:

> >when i was young old, i went to san fransisco and went to hear a local

> >read, bokowski,  he sat on a stage in an movie theatre and read.

>

> Sounds like the "Red Vic" (I believe that's the name - there's

> a bed'n'breakfast next door?) on Haight St.

>

> Could be my faulty circuiting?

> Mike

yes yes, neat, thanks

p

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 16:13:00 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Lisa M. Rabey" <lisar@NET-LINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: a calm request

In-Reply-To:  <970523183906_1124034530@emout07.mail.aol.com>

 

At 06:39 PM 5/23/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Well, Lisa, like I said, you are one amazing person.

>

>And regarding your "long nick name", it's obvious your friend knows you quite

>well.

>

>

>Hey, Lisa, I'd love to match wits with you further, but my parents drilled it

>into me as a young man that I should not duel with an unarmed opponent.

>

>ta ta,

>

>

>Jerry Cimino

>

>

 

Well as my mother told me, if you can't say something nice, then come over

and sit by me!

Its not about "matching" wits, but heck, if your going to argue with "me"

you might as well

A: read what I post instead of paraphrasing it.

b:if your going to quote me, might as well quote what was said instead of

inserting what you *think* was said. Saves a lot of time and engergy.

 

 

ttfn.

 

lisa

 

--

 

Lisa M. Rabey

Internet and Computer Consultant

San Francisco, California

http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye

**************************************

General man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 19:19:46 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: For Gerry and friends

 

In a message dated 97-05-22 22:06:02 EDT, Tim Gallagher wrote:

 

<< I'd much rather hear these guys slug it out verbally than your impolite

 rantings.

 

 James, do us a favor and simply don't read their fighting.  I like to read

it.

  >>

Tim:

Name calling just seems to be part and parcel of it.  It has been very

interesting to learn about the estate issues.  Gerry is too important a

scholar to be pushed off the list by people who respond to his every posting

with insults.  Several times intelligent, interesting and important posts of

his have had insulting responses.  I suspect both sides need a reminder to

lower the decibel level.  Otherwise their mothers should send them to bed!

Pam Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 19:18:27 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: to levi and all

In-Reply-To:  Message of Fri, 23 May 1997 11:45:01 -0400 from

              <country@SOVER.NET>

 

Isn't it good to have Marie C. back with us!  Love that Pound!

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 24 May 1997 00:17:25 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Olly Ruff <or205@HERMES.CAM.AC.UK>

Subject:      Re: old hippy trying to remember san fransisco.

In-Reply-To:  <3386005D.368C@sunflower.com>

 

On Fri, 23 May 1997, Patricia Elliott wrote:

 

> when i was young old, i went to san fransisco and went to hear a local

> read, bokowski,  he sat on a stage in an movie theatre and read.  he sat

> on a lawn chair with a small refrigerator next to him and he pulled out

> beers during the reading.  During questions one man who had asked

> stupick anal questions like do you think you write real literature asked

> if he thought any one would take him serious if he sat there and drank

> beer.  B's response was to say, here have one, then proceeded to throw

> an open beer to the guy, it twirling like a helocopter blade sprewing us

> all.  We sat there thinking wow.  now that guy had to be beat related.

> I wish i could figure out what theatre that was.  there were many great

> readings there.

> patricia

>

 

Well, that's bukowski, not that I ever saw the guy or anything. His poems

were definitely semi-beat, altho' he probably wouldn't have admitted it.

Like beat with his feet on the ground... or actually more like beating his

head into the ground.

 

Olly R.

 

_______________________________________________________________________________

 

"Survival of the... *fittest* ? Was that the proper word ? Had Darwin ever

considered the idea of *temporary* unfitness ? Like "temporary insanity."

Could the Doctor have made room in his theory for a thing like LSD ?"

_______________________________________________________________________________

 

                           or205@hermes.cam.ac.uk

                              skink@imrryr.org

_______________________________________________________________________________

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 24 May 1997 00:10:34 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Olly Ruff <or205@HERMES.CAM.AC.UK>

Subject:      Re: Beat History

In-Reply-To:  <3385E8A6.CB77F85@scsn.net>

 

On Fri, 23 May 1997, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

 

> Would Tom Wolfe of Electric Koolaid Acid Test and Hunter Thompson of

> Fear and Loathing qualify as "beat."

 

perhaps not "beat", but certainly "good"... Kool Aid Acid Test is quite

amazing.

 

Olly.

 

_______________________________________________________________________________

 

"Survival of the... *fittest* ? Was that the proper word ? Had Darwin ever

considered the idea of *temporary* unfitness ? Like "temporary insanity."

Could the Doctor have made room in his theory for a thing like LSD ?"

_______________________________________________________________________________

 

                           or205@hermes.cam.ac.uk

                              skink@imrryr.org

_______________________________________________________________________________

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 20:14:56 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Subject:      Re: rants raves and other quandries

 

--- On Fri, 23 May 1997 18:41:13 -0400  "M. Cakebread"

<cake@IONLINE.NET> wrote:

At 06:35 PM 5/23/97 -0400, Dawn B. Sova wrote:

 

>Glad to see a "legal" viewpoint -- that might change

>the tone of many exchanges.

 

Sez the spider to da fly...

 

ekiM

 

---------------End of Original Message-----------------

Look, I am a Lawyer and I only know one that I would trust!!!

 

Me.

 

Peace,

--------------------------------------------------------

Name: R. Bentz Kirby

E-mail: R. Bentz Kirby <bocelts@scsn.net>

Date: 05/23/97

Time: 20:11:51

 

This message was sent by Z-Mail Pro - from NetManage

NetManage - delivers Standards Based IntraNet Solutions

--------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 17:23:00 -0700

Reply-To:     rholton@okanagan.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rob Holton <rholton@OKANAGAN.NET>

Subject:      Re: Thomas Pynchon

 

In his introduction to Slow Learner, his collection of early short

stories,

Pynchon details the important Beat influence on his work and calls

himself

post-Beat.  There are quite few connections.

 

Rob Holton

 

 

R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

>

> Is Thomas Pynchon beat?  I love, but can't understand, his work.  I am

> not sure if he is beat or not.

 

> Bentz

> bocelts@scsn.net

> http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 19:36:40 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: Beats out of court

 

Bill Gargan wrote:

>

> Just to start the ball rolling, I think there were several things that

> contributed to Kerouac's change of style.  Holmes once mentioned that he

> thought the war seemed to speed life up for his generation.  Maybe this

> was reflected in the newmusic and maybe the beat of the music caused

> them to feel time in a different way. Drugs may also have played a role

> in terms of Kerouac's changing style.  And there was Neal Cassady--the

> fastest man alive--and his famous Joan Anderson letter.

 

 

Bill,

Please, i am unfamiliar with the famous Joan Anderson letter. I am sorry

if this makes it seem like beat 101 but, a short history would be

appreciated.  I am just beginning to visualize the casts of characters.

patricia

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 19:45:18 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      booze  and the guys

 

my list

Ken kesey, drinking vodka and grapefruit juice with ice (in a large

thermos) one afternoon in the KU union, pre press conference

 

wsb vodka (vod) and coke with ice after 4:

 

jk  quart of jack daniels a day? did he ever do boilermakers?

p

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 20:29:09 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Beat List T-Shirt Update

In-Reply-To:  <338515C8.752@sunflower.com>

 

>>  If you only want the poster or program by itself, the

>> price is $15.00 for the one item.

>> Jeffrey Weinberg

>> Water Row Books

>> PO Box 438

>> Sudbury MA 01776

>> Tel 508-485-8515

>> Fax 508-229-0885

>> EMail Waterrow@aol.com

 

JW,

 

Just saw the above. Hope I'm not too late.

 

I'd very much like a poster. It's Friday night, 8:30, don't want to bother

you at this time. I'll call in the A.M.

 

Looking forward to seeing the Beat-L t-shirt design.

 

Appreciate you working this out for everyone.

 

j grant

 

                BE ON THE WATCH

for items stolen from the Keroauc Collection

        O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell

http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html

 

Academic & Small Press Authors & publishers

                display books free at

           <http://www.bookzen.com>

     302,443  visitors since July 1, 1996

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 19:37:20 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      San Fran Correction

 

There's another thread about an old hippy remembering San Francisco.  Maybe

this one should be an old punk rocker remembering San Francisco.

 

I told the fellow who will be in SF to go up broadway to the park.

 

Broadway is east west.  Go North up Columbus.

 

It is thre blocks up or so.

 

City Lights is at Columbus and Broadway.

 

It's a short walk to the park where jack hung out.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 19:41:20 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Ann Charters Interview

 

Jerry Cimino wrote: . . .

> Well, folks, I've done my due diligence.  Ann Charters may not be talking on

> this list and she may not be the president of the Gerry Nicosia fan club, but

> she doesn't contradict his arguments either, at least not in this interview.

>  In fact, she supports them.

 

 

Jerry--

 

Which shows that she has class.  Nicosia simply refers to her as a

Sampas stooge (and probably on his payroll), despite the fact that her

work on Kerouac is certainly at a minimum as substantial as his, and I

would argue considerably more .

 

J Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 19:51:26 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: San Francisco

 

Michael Stutz wrote:

>

> On Fri, 23 May 1997, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

>

> > I will be traveling to San Francisco in early June.  I intend to go to

> > City Lights.  Can anyone offer ideas on particularly "beat" sites to

> > check out.

>

> Besides the front of the store where a legendary beat photo was taken with

> lf, nc, rl and others, I hear they got a whole isle in the back dedicated to

> just beat authors.

>

> har har har

 

Or go to the Mission district, where it would be happening if Beat was

now.

 

J Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 19:53:23 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: old hippy trying to remember san fransisco.

 

Patricia Elliott wrote:

>

> when i was young old, i went to san fransisco and went to hear a local

> read, bokowski,  he sat on a stage in an movie theatre and read.  he sat

> on a lawn chair with a small refrigerator next to him and he pulled out

> beers during the reading.  During questions one man who had asked

> stupick anal questions like do you think you write real literature asked

> if he thought any one would take him serious if he sat there and drank

> beer.  B's response was to say, here have one, then proceeded to throw

> an open beer to the guy, it twirling like a helocopter blade sprewing us

> all.  We sat there thinking wow.  now that guy had to be beat related.

> I wish i could figure out what theatre that was.  there were many great

> readings there.

> patricia

 

 

Patricia,

 

I have no idea what the theatre would have been, could have been a

number of venue's--what part of town?  But good old Buk was an LA

boy--not an SF local.

 

J Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 19:57:14 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Early Morning Thoughts

 

Gerald Nicosia wrote:

 

  How many people on the Beat-List have received a

> copy of the KQED radio show from San Francisco on which George Tobia talks

> about Jan Kerouac selling a warrant that belonged to her mother?  Don't all

> raise your hands at once.  (Chaput, please put your hand down--we know you

> have one.)

>         Off to shoot some hoops,

>         Gerry Nicosia

 

Gerry,

 

I never got a tape of the show, I heard it while driving to work.  As

you know living here the Krazny (sp?)program has a pretty wide

listenership.

 

J Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 20:39:07 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Thoughts for Jack

 

I bow to Pam Plymell, let the fight go on as far as I'm concerned.

Let's just not forget who the subject is.  We're talking about Jack

Kerouac here, and it's hard for me to imagine that as he sat in the Six

Gallery expertly flicking the tops of cheap wine bottles and getting the

crowd fired up while Allen Ginsberg got ready to make them all famous

that he saw ahead to this sorry mess.

 

I SOMETIMES TALK TO

KEROUAC WHEN I DRIVE

 

Jack?

 

Yesterday I thought of something

I never had a chance to tell you

and now I don't know what it was

 

Remember?

 

Lew Welch

 

SMALL SENTENCE TO DRIVE YOURSELF SANE

 

        The next time you are doing something abolutely

ordinary, or even better

 

        the next time you are doing something absolutely

necessary, such as pissing, or making love, or shaving or

washing the dishes or the baby or yourself or the room,

say to yourself

 

        "So it's all come to this!"

 

Lew Welch

 

Sitting here drinking and smoking and thinking about all this shit, but

what I really am doing is listening to John Lee Hooker and Van Morrison

doing their thing--

 

"Dr put you on milk, cream and alcohol"

 

"You need to go see a Dr. instead of your favorite nurse"

 

"Backbiters and syndicators hang around outside your door"

 

AS for me, I know I'm not going to the Dr--but might start calling my

favorite nurses.  Have a good Memorial Day everyone.  People die in

wars.

 

James Stauffer

 

Lew Welch said, in a much less PC world

 

COMPORTMENT

 

Think Jew

dance nigger

dress and drive Oakie

 

I say

 

Think Czech

dance Brazilian

dress and drive Italian

smoke Humboldt County

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 23:47:30 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Early Morning Thoughts

 

At 03:39 PM 5/23/97 -0700, you wrote:

>  How on earth did Mr. Chaput know of that phone call?

>>>I can't imagine his radio is so powerful he picks up San Francisco stations

>>>in Lowell, Massachusetts?

>>

>>(note****a tape of this radio conversation has widely circulated from a

>>source unnamed in California...)

>>

>                                        (Paul A. Maher)

>

>Dear Paul:        May 23, 1997

>

>        Your apologetics for Mr. Chaput and Mr. Sampas give me a hearty laugh.

****I am not "apologetic" for anyone, when there is a statement that can be

amended by something I know of differently, I will state it "heartily..." I

would do the same for you.

 

>        I suppose Jan Kerouac's income tax returns were also "widely

>circulated from a source unnamed in California."

> ***I do not know about that...

 

Widely circulated?

well....I got a tape from a tape from a tape froma tape etc.etc

etcetcetcetcetcetc

 

 

 How many people on the Beat-List have received a

>copy of the KQED radio show from San Francisco on which George Tobia talks

>about Jan Kerouac selling a warrant that belonged to her mother?  Don't all

>raise your hands at once.  (Chaput, please put your hand down--we know you

>have one.)

>        Off to shoot some hoops,

>        Gerry Nicosia

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 23 May 1997 21:19:24 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: old hippy trying to remember san fransisco.

 

Patricia Elliott wrote:

>

> M. Cakebread wrote:

> >

> > At 03:38 PM 5/23/97 -0500, Patricia wrote:

> > >when i was young old, i went to san fransisco and went to hear a local

> > >read, bokowski,  he sat on a stage in an movie theatre and read.

> >

> > Sounds like the "Red Vic" (I believe that's the name - there's

> > a bed'n'breakfast next door?) on Haight St.

> >

> > Could be my faulty circuiting?

> > Mike

> yes yes, neat, thanks

> p

 

Still mostly a movie theatre and still going strong.

 

James

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 24 May 1997 00:23:07 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Dawn B. Sova" <DawnDR@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: rants raves and other quandries

 

Dear ekiM:

 

 

>From MY point of view, it might be more "sez the fly to the spider"!

 

Dawn

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 24 May 1997 00:09:27 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         talk dirty to me <mutton@JANE.PENN.COM>

Subject:      Re: a calm request

 

tiffs make me happy

they are fuuunny

continue

 

----------

: From: Lisa M. Rabey <lisar@NET-LINK.NET>

: To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

: Subject: Re: a calm request

: Date: Friday, May 23, 1997 6:13 PM

:

: At 06:39 PM 5/23/97 -0400, you wrote:

: >Well, Lisa, like I said, you are one amazing person.

: >

: >And regarding your "long nick name", it's obvious your friend knows you

quite

: >well.

: >

: >

: >Hey, Lisa, I'd love to match wits with you further, but my parents

drilled it

: >into me as a young man that I should not duel with an unarmed opponent.

: >

: >ta ta,

: >

: >

: >Jerry Cimino

: >

: >

:

: Well as my mother told me, if you can't say something nice, then come

over

: and sit by me!

: Its not about "matching" wits, but heck, if your going to argue with "me"

: you might as well

: A: read what I post instead of paraphrasing it.

: b:if your going to quote me, might as well quote what was said instead of

: inserting what you *think* was said. Saves a lot of time and engergy.

:

:

: ttfn.

:

: lisa

:

: --

:

: Lisa M. Rabey

: Internet and Computer Consultant

: San Francisco, California

: http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye

: **************************************

: General man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 24 May 1997 00:40:37 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Subject:      Re: Thomas Pynchon

Comments: To: Rob Holton <rholton@OKANAGAN.NET>

 

--- On Fri, 23 May 1997 17:23:00 -0700  Rob Holton

<rholton@OKANAGAN.NET> wrote:

> In his introduction to Slow Learner, his collection of early

short

> stories,

> Pynchon details the important Beat influence on his work and

calls

> himself

> post-Beat.  There are quite few connections.

>

> Rob Holton

>

>

> R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

> >

> > Is Thomas Pynchon beat?  I love, but can't understand, his

work.  I am

> > not sure if he is beat or not.

>

> > Bentz

> > bocelts@scsn.net

> > http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

 

---------------End of Original Message-----------------

 

Well, I know he plays on urban myths with the alligator in the

sewer thing.  And I always thought that several of his ideas

seemed very beatific.  But, as a lawyer, I am sure that I don't

know shit from shinola.

 

;-)

 

--------------------------------------------------------

Name: R. Bentz Kirby

E-mail: R. Bentz Kirby <bocelts@scsn.net>

Date: 05/24/97

Time: 00:27:51

 

This message was sent by Z-Mail Pro - from NetManage

NetManage - delivers Standards Based IntraNet Solutions

--------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 24 May 1997 00:43:01 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: rants raves and other quandries

 

At 12:23 AM 5/24/97 -0400, nwaD wrote:

>Dear ekiM:

>

>

>>From MY point of view, it might be more "sez the fly to the spider"!

 

!!nwaD no thgiR

 

ekiM

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 24 May 1997 00:54:45 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject:      Re: a calm request-Lisa is right

 

At 03:44 AM 5/23/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Derek, Marie, Lisa, et al...

>

>I agree a lot of this is distasteful.  I agree too much of it is juvenile.

>But it is serving a very large purpose.

>

>Look at who does *nothing* but shout and moan.  The very same people who

>refuse to answer honest questions.  These people have raised the level of

>rhetoric time and time again because they have no legitimate argument to

>make.  Now Chaput is calling for a truce.  Why?  Because he knows he's

>beaten.  Tracy gave him a gift by asking if he was really serious about his

>"Gerry is a thief because he xeroxed Jack's letters" post which allowed him

>to come back with "it was a joke".

 

This above is a good example of what Lisa was talking about how you

misquote. As in her post below.

 

A: read what I post instead of paraphrasing it.

b:if your going to quote me, might as well quote what was said instead of

inserting what you *think* was said. Saves a lot of time and energy.

 

I may not be a scholar but usually when you put quotation marks around what

you are calling someone's post, it means they actually said that.

You see Jerry the reason why is if someone reads your post they may not have

had the opportunity to see the ORIGINAL POST and they would actually think I

said this-----"Gerry is a thief because he xeroxed Jack's letters"----- when

in fact I never did say that now did I Jerry? In fact I never said the word

"thief" nor did I say ONLY it was illegal to xerox what I said was it was

illegal to "xerox and sell" an authors letters, that when he told people it

was for his personal use and then turned around and sold the letters that

THAT was illegal. It was just a point I made. My opinion and I'm not a lawer

nor do I want one (Thanks anyway and Welcome.-R. Bentz Kirby-beat attorney)

Does anyone on the list think they can copy an authors words whether it is

in the form of a letter or manuscript or book or whatever and then sell it

for cash. It really doesn't matter if it was to a University or to someone

on the street. If you could do that it wouldn't be very good to be a writer

now would it. Gerry should be proud of his archive. I mentioned long ago I

thought his book was and I quote "Great!" What he did putting together that

ENTIRE archive is historic, grand , an amazing accomplishment and I'm not

trying to be funny I'm being very serious. An invaluable tool for scholars.

At todays prices it probably would be worth as much as Ann Charters ( I

heard quarter million) archive. I repeat the archive is not "closed" it is

just that SCHOLARS who want to do research will need permission from the

person who was interviewed to read those interviews, or letters and if that

person is deceased then their heirs must give permission and yes that would

include Kerouac's heirs. Unless something has changed since I was last at



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