=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 18:21:28 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher
<brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Lies, Money, and VIdeotape
In-Reply-To:
<199705250034.RAA10619@denmark.it.earthlink.net> from "Gerald
Nicosia" at May 24, 97
05:34:11 pm
Gerald
Nicosia writes:
>
Attila Gyensis writes:
>
> "...the financial assistance
that I have received from Mr. Sampas
>
amounts to a grand total (let me check my calculator) $0, nada, zero, nulla,
>
nothing, zip."
>
> May I suggest, Mr. Gyensis, that you
are being a little coy in the
>
matter of advertisements that have magically appeared in your magazine,
>
DHARMA BEAT?
> In the short 3-year history of DHARMA
BEAT, you have received
>
numerous full-page ads from Viking/Penguin, Mr. Sampas's publisher. Your
>
fall 1995 issue even had TWO full-page ads from Viking. You received a
>
half-page ad from Rykodisc for a record that was produced by Jim Sampas.
>
You received a full-page ad for BIG SKY MIND, the Buddhist Beat collection
>
with which Mr. John Sampas was intimately connected (the editor states: "A
>
special debt of gratitude is owed to John Sampas, the Literary Executor of
...
The
fact that you would speak like this to Attila Gyenis proves to me
what
you're doing wrong.
I've hung
out with Attila a few times, and he is one of the sweetest,
gentlest
most philosophical and non-greedy people I've ever met.
Furthermore,
the one time I discussed you and your activities
with
him (a few months ago over some beers after he and I
attended
the play "Kerouac" together) he was taking your side,
and
telling me about some of your good points.
You've gone and
turned
another friend into an enemy! As you
did with me.
Your
tactics are all WRONG. This is NOT the
way you solve
problems. Stop bullying people around. You could better
serve
your own cause with more peaceful tactics.
Recently
at a LaGuardia Airport taxi stand, I saw a great sign:
"BE
POLITE! IT'S NICE TO BE IMPORTANT, BUT
IT"S MORE IMPORTANT
TO BE
NICE". Please, Gerry Nicosia,
start going with the flow
a
little more. Estate battles
happen. The world survives.
Let's
talk about something else. Maybe, to
get us off on
a
different topic, you could tell us about the Vietnam book
you're
writing. I'd really like to hear about
it. When do
you
expect it will be published?
------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock album)
###################################
"Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
-- Bob Dylan
-----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 21:34:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rod Anstee <Nastees@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Law suits
In a
message dated 97-05-24 20:43:44 EDT, you write:
>he
will be held accountable for whatever he says here that is damaging to my
professional
reputation.
> Thank you.
> Yours truly, Gerald Nicosia
'Seems
to me that you should consider suing yourself, too, Gerry.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 21:45:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Jim Carroll & Richard Hell
In a
message dated 97-05-23 16:23:28 EDT, you write:
<<
We are always seeking suggestions of suitable artists to promote...
Any and all suggestions from the admirable
minds of Beat-L would be
appreciated.
>>
Charles
Plymell
Pam
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 21:53:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: chatfield residence
<chatfield@VOYAGER.NET>
Subject: hello
hi, my
name is amy jean, and i am new on this list. i have joined because i
am
doing a research project on jack kerouac and i thought that many of the
people
on this list would be knowledgeable in that area. My question for
research
is, "How did Jack kerouac influence, and how was he influenced by,
the
"beat generation"?"
if a
few kind people have any ideas on what books would be helpful to me,
or if
anyone has any answers to that question themselves, please e-mail me
at
chatfield@voyager.net
i would
not like to tie up the list with things that most people would find
annoying,
especially because i am new here. : )
thanks.
--amy
jean
"hold
me down, catching my throat, make me pray, say, love's confined."
-r.e.m.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:48:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: hello
Hi Amy
Jean,
Have you yet had a chance to search
the web for references on this
question?
I actually mad emy way to the list as a result of searching for
refs to
Slim Gaillard, which led me to Jack Kerouac and on to the Beat list.
If
you're interested and if you can use it I can send you a Netscape browser
bookmark
list with many of the relevant sites.Start
with list member Levi
Asher's
Lierary Kicks site at
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
The short reply to your question,
which others will ably expand on
is that
Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg, and William Burroughs - the core of the
Beat
generation writers - were very taken with a guy named Huncke, a small
time
crook, junkie, man about town, and occasional writer. He talked
regularly
about being and feeling Beat.
They added it to their vocabulary and
their friend John Clellon
Holmes
(author of "Go") talked to Jack Kerouac about being beat and some of
this
material appeared in "Go".
It was Jack who first talked about the
Beat Generation and Holmes
credited
him with that. first conversations were about 1947; "Go was
published
in 1952 ;the New York Times published a short piece about Beat
after
Gilbert Milstein, an editor there, noticed the reference to the Beat
Generation
in "Go" and asked Holmes to supply an article. [much of this is
from
Dennis McNally's "Desolate Angel:
Jack Kerouac and the Beat Generation".
************
So your
question might need to be rethought, since some might argue that
Jack
and a small circle of friends WERE the Beat Generation.... "How did
Jack
kerouac influence, and how was he influenced by, the "beat
generation"?"
Antoine
Would also recommend folowing web
site:
http://www.halcyon.com/colinp/beats.htm
The Beat Generation Archives
And
http://enterzone.berkeley.edu/ez/e2/articles/digaman.html
How Beat Happened by Steve Silberman
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky
and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:51:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: hello again
Hi
again Amy Jean....
And one more, the John Clellon Holmes
article This is the Beat
Generation
for the New York Times! available at:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/Texts/ThisIsBeatGen.html
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky
and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 19:55:16 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Memory Babe Archive
Dear
Friends on the Beat-List: May
24, 1997
I feel it necessary to correct some
very misleading information that
Phil
Chaput has posted on the Beat-List concerning the MEMORY BABE archive.
He
would have you think that the archive has never been closed. For all
intents
and purposes, it IS closed, and has been ever since Mr. Sampas went
over
there to complain about open access in June, 1995.
It is important that I warn you all,
lest you waste your time and
money
traveling to Lowell, Massachusetts to make use of this unique and
irreplaceable
collection.
HERE'S WHAT YOU'LL BE TOLD WHEN YOU
ARRIVE:
You cannot make full use of this
collection unless you get
permission
from the 300 people Gerald Nicosia interviewed. Never mind that
100 of
these people are now dead. You must get
permission from the dead
people's
heirs.
Where do you start? The university, I was told, has the
addresses
of FIVE
of these people.
Does that sound like a daunting
task? It is more than daunting--it
is
AWESOME! I, who created this
collection, could not now find all 300
people
and their heirs. It is IMPOSSIBLE.
Never mind, of course, that all these
people consented to be
interviewed
for a major biography, knowing full well EVERYTHING THEY SAID
WAS
BEING TAPED AND WOULD BE AVAILABLE FOR USE IN MY BOOK.
What about the 2,000 xerox Kerouac
letters? You can't use those
either,
without John Sampas's permission, and he has been known to make
getting
his permission a quite difficult process.
(Ask Steve Turner, who
wrote
ANGELHEADED HIPSTER, if you don't believe me.)
Well, you may say, MR. SAMPAS HAS EVERY RIGHT TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM
READING
THOSE 2,000 xerox Kerouac letters. No,
he doesn't.
Tomorrow, if I choose, I can read
every Kerouac letter at Columbia
University,
Stanford University, Bancroft Library (Berkeley), Reed College,
the
Newberry Library, and the Humanities Research Center at the University
of
Texas, Austin--WITHOUT MR. SAMPAS'S PERMISSION!!!
Surprised? Mr. Sampas has even phoned the University of Texas and
Bancroft
Library in Berkeley, to insist that scholars could not see their
Kerouac
letters without his permission.
You know what Texas and Bancroft told
Mr. Sampas? Sorry, sir, YOU
DO NOT
HAVE THAT RIGHT.
If these libraries are breaking the
law by showing Kerouac letters
to
scholars, why hasn't Mr. Sampas taken them to court???
It is only because the University of
Massachusetts, Lowell, has bent
to Mr.
Sampas's will (I might say willfulness) that the MEMORY BABE
collection
is closed to the public.
For all of you who care about the
importance of this collection,
please
know that I AM TAKING LEGAL ACTION to free the MEMORY BABE archive,
and
your support could be very helpful.
In the meantime, better think twice
before packing your bags for a
scholarly
trip to Lowell. Better call librarian
Martha Mayo first, and
better
have your 300 signed permissions in hand.
Sorry, but that's the way it is--
Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:02:51 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Law suits
At
09:34 PM 5/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In
a message dated 97-05-24 20:43:44 EDT, you write:
>
>>he
will be held accountable for whatever he says here that is damaging to my
>professional
reputation.
>> Thank you.
>> Yours truly, Gerald Nicosia
>
>'Seems
to me that you should consider suing yourself, too, Gerry.
>
>
C'mon,
Rod, you can do better than that. We
expect something REALLY NASTY
from
you. Dennis Rodman wouldn't even roll
his eyeballs at that one.
Best, Gerry
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:23:13 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Lies, Money, and VIdeotape
>I've
hung out with Attila a few times, and he is one of the sweetest,
>gentlest
most philosophical and non-greedy people I've ever met.
>Furthermore,
the one time I discussed you and your activities
>with
him (a few months ago over some beers after he and I
>attended
the play "Kerouac" together) he was taking your side,
>and
telling me about some of your good points.
You've gone and
>turned
another friend into an enemy! As you
did with me.
>Your
tactics are all WRONG. This is NOT the
way you solve
>problems. Stop bullying people around. You could better
>serve
your own cause with more peaceful tactics.
>------------------------------------------------------
> Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
>
> Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
> (the beat literature web site)
>
>
Queensboro Ballads: http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
> (my fantasy folk-rock album)
>
> ###################################
>
> "Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
> -- Bob Dylan
>-----------------------------------------------------
>
Levi, 5/24/97
Bentz Kirby commented about what a
"weird scene" it is on the
Beat-List,
and one of the weirdest things is how people here keep calling up
down,
green red, and enemies friends.
A few nights ago, Attila Gyensis told
(lied) to the Beat-L readers
that I
had spent years "demanding" to be invited to Lowell by Lowell
Celebrates
Kerouac! (a committee he is or has been a member of). The truth
is, I
have never so much as written Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! a single
letter,
or even called them on the phone.
Yet, Mr. Gyensis is supposed to be
"taking my side."
You were supposed to be my
"friend," and you falsely embarrass me
here on
the Beat-List, claiming I arbitrarily forced you to pull Jan's
PARROT
FEVER from your website (as if I were on some kind of power trip a la
Rod
Anstee), when I had already explained to you, in writing, in detail,
that I
was being legally constrained by Jan's heirs from letting you publish
the
piece (even on the internet) for nothing.
Now I don't expect Mr. Gyensis is
getting rich off John Sampas.
When I
dropped his name a few posts ago, it was because so much intense
scrutiny
of my and Jan's finances has been posted on this net by people like
Anstee
and Chaput. So I wanted to turn the
tables for a moment, just so
those
on the other side would know what it feels like to be asked questions
about
every penny you ever earned or were helped to earn.
When Mr. Gyensis makes false (and
essentially damaging) accusations
about
me, I have to wonder what his motives are, and I would have to be a
fool to
think that Mr. Sampas has not been helpful to him in publishing his
magazine.
The bottom line, here, Levi, is not
that I'm a mean or vicious
person
(ask the 60 ladies over at my mom's nursing home, whom I visit every
day). The bottom line is that I'm tired of an
onslaught of vicious,
personal
attacks on me--which have all arisen because certain people don't
want to
answer the really important questions about what Mr. Sampas is doing
with
Jack Kerouac's archive. And I want
those people to know that I don't
lie
down and play dead at the first shove.
I shove back. And if you shove
harder,
I shove harder.
I'm ready to lower the intensity of
this debate any time the other
side
is. Or perhaps more to the point, I'm
ready to play clean--without the
Rodman-like
kicks, elbows, and body-blocks--as soon as the other side shows
me the
same courtesy.
It's them you should be lecturing, not
me.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:27:00 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Law suits
Gerald
Nicosia wrote:
>
> At
09:34 PM 5/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>In a message dated 97-05-24 20:43:44 EDT, you write:
>
>
>
>>he will be held accountable for whatever he says here that is damaging
to my
>
>professional reputation.
>
>> Thank you.
>
>> Yours truly, Gerald
Nicosia
>
>
>
>'Seems to me that you should consider suing yourself, too, Gerry.
>
>
>
>
>
>
C'mon, Rod, you can do better than that.
We expect something REALLY NASTY
>
from you. Dennis Rodman wouldn't even
roll his eyeballs at that one.
> Best, Gerry
What's
with all the Rodman-bashing???
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:36:45 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: hello
At
09:53 PM 5/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>hi,
my name is amy jean, and i am new on this list. i have joined because i
>am
doing a research project on jack kerouac and i thought that many of the
>people
on this list would be knowledgeable in that area. My question for
>research
is, "How did Jack kerouac influence, and how was he influenced by,
>the
"beat generation"?"
>if
a few kind people have any ideas on what books would be helpful to me,
>or
if anyone has any answers to that question themselves, please e-mail me
>at
>chatfield@voyager.net
>i
would not like to tie up the list with things that most people would find
>annoying,
especially because i am new here. : )
>thanks.
>--amy
jean
>
>
>
>
>"hold
me down, catching my throat, make me pray, say, love's confined."
>-r.e.m.
>
Dear
Amy Jean-- May 24, 1997
Thanks for giving me the chance to
show I don't think about literary
estates
and lawsuits all my waking hours (my little daughter Wu Ji would
never
allow that).
Read my biography of Jack Kerouac,
MEMORY BABE (from University of
California
Press), or if you're not into 800-page books, read a shorter
version
of things by Steven Turner called ANGELHEADED HIPSTER (Viking); read
John
Clellon Holmes' NOTHING MORE TO DECLARE (reissued, I believe, from U.
of
Arkansas Press); read John Tytell's NAKED ANGELS; get ahold of the
catalogue
to the Whitney Museum Show: BEAT CULTURE AND THE NEW AMERICA (you
can
order it from the Whitney Museum Book Shop in New York City); and maybe
try
listening to HOWLS RAPS & ROARS, on record, CD, or tape from Fantasy
Records
in Berkeley. Better yet, if you are
near California, visit City
Lights
Bookstore, the poetry and Beat room upstairs, see if you can have
coffee
with the owner, poet Lawrence Ferlinghetti, and sit in Kerouac's
corner
in Vesuvio's bar next door, where many of the old Beat poets still
hang
out, like Jack Micheline, Howard Hart, Eugene Ruggles, and Marty Matz.
Beat
was a very large community, of which only a small iceberg tip ever got
famous;
it was supportive, compassionate, open toward life, and in constant
pursuit
of joy and new experience--and Kerouac led the way.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:45:45 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Law suits
At
10:27 PM 5/24/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Gerald
Nicosia wrote:
>>
>>
At 09:34 PM 5/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>In a message dated 97-05-24 20:43:44 EDT, you write:
>>
>
>>
>>he will be held accountable for whatever he says here that is damaging
to my
>>
>professional reputation.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Yours truly, Gerald
Nicosia
>>
>
>>
>'Seems to me that you should consider suing yourself, too, Gerry.
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>>
C'mon, Rod, you can do better than that.
We expect something REALLY NASTY
>>
from you. Dennis Rodman wouldn't even
roll his eyeballs at that one.
>> Best, Gerry
>
>What's
with all the Rodman-bashing???
>
Hey,
Dave,
I LIKE Dennis Rodman. Why was that a bash?
Best, Gerry
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:51:55 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Gargolye magazine
At
01:29 PM 5/24/97 EST, you wrote:
>This
may be repeat information as I think I lost some mail during a recent
>thunderstorm
here in the outback So excuse me if this is old news but the
>latest
issue of Gargoyle Magazine, number 39/40, has an excerpt of Joan Haverty
>Kerouac's
autobiography in it (this would be Jan's mother). Give it a look
>should
you spy a copy.
>
>One
more thing, any fans of Larry Eigner out there? Re-reading some of his work
>as
he died a few months ago, I was happy to have my memory re-freshed to what a
>fine
poet he was. Sorry he had to die for me to look at his work again...but if
>you
get a chance, give Larry a read. Adios to a great poet.
>
>dave
B.
>
Dave, May 24, 1997
I believe Jack Foley, who was a close
friend of Eigner's, did a
memorial
show for him on Foley's radio program (I forget the name) on
KPFA-FM
radio in Berkeley. If you call the
station, they can probably sell
you a
copy of the show, if you're interested.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:58:31 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Steve Smith a.k.a. Whiskey
Wordsmith" <psu06729@ODIN.CC.PDX.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lies, Money, and VIdeotape
In-Reply-To:
<199705250121.SAA23363@netcom.netcom.com>
On Sat,
24 May 1997, Levi Asher wrote:
>
Your tactics are all WRONG. This is NOT
the way you solve
>
problems. Stop bullying people
around. You could better
>
serve your own cause with more peaceful tactics.
>
> Please, Gerry Nicosia, start going with the
flow
> a
little more. Estate battles
happen. The world survives.
>
Let's talk about something else. Maybe,
to get us off on
> a
different topic, you could tell us about the Vietnam book
>
you're writing. I'd really like to hear
about it. When do
>
you expect it will be published?
levi
and friends: "start going with the flow"???? bullshit. that's the
rap
weasels the world over use. it's a cop-out. it's the kind of thing
that's
said when people are sitting on the lawn, way far out there away
from
passion and the "real" world, if you will. there is no question that
i
wish
the
whole
estate battle could be solved with a magic swing of a wand, but
it aint
gonna happen that way. none of any
waterheaded zen crap will
zone-out
a long (and necessary) airing of the two sides' positions. don't
zero in
on nicosia as the "bad" guy. levi, you say some very wise things
a lot
of the time--and you have a boffo web site--but quit the whining
about
nicosia. if you hate the back and forth
poison re: the estate
battle,
why not get on anstee and chaput, too??? the couple of times i've
read
posts reZ: the estate thing, you've been on nicosia's case. perhaps
i am
being a bit simplistic here, but ....
we
should be (and i am) glad nicosia is rapping on the list--about
anything
he wants. if we can think lisa rabey's rap on cocksucking is
okay
for the list, why whip out the cattleprods when nicosia et al go
back
and forth on the estate thing?
i like
reading about the battle.
let's
let the camps have it out.
it's
much more interesting than all the geek posts from people wondering
whether
george bush, george clooney, kesey, socks the cat, and bozo the
clown,
etc. are beat or not.
let the
voices roll. keep yer fingers on the delete key. and keep yer
heads
open. after all, this is advertised as a "forum", right?
regards,
steve
Steve
R. Smith
Graduate
Teaching Assistant
Department
of English
Portland
State University
Box 751
Portland, OR 97207
503-725-3556
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 00:06:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: hello
In a
message dated 97-05-24 21:49:37 EDT, chatfield@VOYAGER.NET (chatfield
residence)
writes:
<<
i would not like to tie up the list with things that most people would
find
annoying, especially because i am new here. :
)
thanks. >>
Dear
amy jean -
what a
refreshing and considerate attitude. you are setting a good example.
others
who consider themselves Kerouac experts could learn from your gentle
thoughtfulness.
Talking about the beats is why we're here, most of us, so you
could
never annoy us with that.
In
response to your question: sometimes the phrase "beat generation" refers
to the
writers and other principals, and sometimes (perhaps less often) it is
used to
indicate all the people of that generation. If you want to know how
Kerouac
influenced the beat generation writers, you need to realize that he,
Allen
Ginsberg and William Burroughs are the only ones whom everyone agrees
"belong"
as beat writers. They were all friends and they influenced each
other.
It is
sometimes thought that Kerouac had more influence on the following
generation
- let's call them the hippies for nostalgia's sake! - than he did
on
people of his own age group.
I
concur with Antoine about the various resources available and would also
recommend
spending
some time with the Jack Kerouac ROMnibus
CD-ROM if you can borrow
(or
afford) one.
Good
luck!
Jul
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 00:44:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: a calm request-Lisa is right
>If
you want to start a serious discussion about Jack, Phil, then answer me
>this. Did you know Jack when your were a kid? Tell us about it. I'm sure
>others
will be interested and it will allow you and me to talk about
>something
where we aren't on opposite sides of the fence.
>
>
>Jerry
Cimino
>
>Thanks
Jerry, I did meet Jack once although it is not much of a story and
it's
kind of a sad one to me. It was around 1966 (I'm not sure of the exact
date) I
was 13 or 14 years old and my father had picked up Jack and the two
of them
were going to go into Boston for a night out on the town. My father
in his
grand wisdom had thought it would be a memorable experience for me to
go with
them, probably so I could get to know Jack and maybe he was thinking
that at
some point in my life I would realize what an incredibly cool
experience
it would have been. So anyway they drove up to where I was
hanging
around at the time (a park in downtown Lowell) called Lucy Larcom
park. I
was a long haired hippie at the time and my father lived in another
area of
town than I did because my parents had divorced. That's why I hadn't
met
Jack before because my father mostly went to his house and picked him up
because
he didn't drive and my father also had a car. He had only been over
to my
father's house a few times, although Jack had met my father's mother
my
Memere and he also introduced his mother Gabrielle to my Memere. Memere
to
Memere. So anyway he called me over to the car and introduced Jack to me.
He was
sitting in the back of the car and I reached in and shook his hand
and
said hello. My father then told me that they were going into Boston for
the
night and he asked me if I wanted to go with him. Like a
fool-moron-jerk-idiot-
I declined and told them politely thanks anyway but
I'd
would rather just hang around the park. There was some kind of action
going
on and at the time (I was probably going to score and get high or
something)
I wasn't into Kerouac then. I just knew him as the famous Lowell
author
and good friend of my dad's. My brother on the other hand was really
into
Jack and had read every single book Jack had written. I realized later
that
Jack had probably gotten into the back seat that night assuming I would
go with
them and maybe it was kind of an insult but then again maybe it was
just so
Jack could be more comfortable. What I remember of him that night is
that he
already had a good head start on his night out. In other words he
was
already starting to get pretty drunk and I could tell. He also looked
fat to
me at the time and red faced. Looking back I wouldn't now think he
was fat
but that's what I thought of him at the time. I guess I was
expecting
something else. So that's about it the only other time was about 2
or 3
years later in 69 when they buried him. I was going to St. Joseph's
High
School at the time which is just down the street from St. Jean the
Baptist
church where they had the funeral mass for Jack. I skipped out of
class
and walked down the street and stood in the doorway of Voyer's florist
shop. I
knew Joe Voyer he was a pretty cool guy (he also knew Jack and my
dad)
and let me hang out or hide out while I watched my father as a
pallbearer
carry Jack's body into the church. The night I didn't go with
them
Jack and my dad went over and asked my brother Tony if he wanted to go
with
them and of course he jumped at the chance. He had the most memorable
experience
of his life. He really loved Jack. He got to drill Jack with all
kinds
of questions like "what was your favorite drug?" things only a teen
would
ask. I have been trying to get him to write a story about it for a
long
time. He promises me now he will do it soon. He lives in California.
Jack
did mention me in one of his letters when he asked my dad " ...have you
found
your boy yet..." I had ran away from home for a while at 14 and had
started
my own "on the road" trip. Stella had also sent a Christmas card in
1968
asking my dad "Have you found Philip?" I still have that card and
letter
and I cherish them. To this day I regret not having gone with my dad
and
Jack that night. So that's how I got to know and love Jack Kerouac.
Thanks
for asking and listening. Phil
I was
wondering if anyone else on the list might have a story to tell about
meeting
Jack or any of the beats. Might be an interesting thread.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:01:34 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: a calm request-Lisa is right
... The
night I didn't go with
>them
Jack and my dad went over and asked my brother Tony if he wanted to go
>with
them and of course he jumped at the chance. He had the most memorable
>experience
of his life. He really loved Jack. He got to drill Jack with all
>kinds
of questions like "what was your favorite drug?" things only a teen
>would
ask. I have been trying to get him to write a story about it for a
>long
time. He promises me now he will do it soon. He lives in California.
>Jack
did mention me in one of his letters when he asked my dad " ...have you
>found
your boy yet..." I had ran away from home for a while at 14 and had
>started
my own "on the road" trip. Stella had also sent a Christmas card in
>1968
asking my dad "Have you found Philip?" I still have that card and
>letter
and I cherish them. To this day I regret not having gone with my dad
>and
Jack that night. So that's how I got to know and love Jack Kerouac.
>Thanks
for asking and listening. Phil
>
>I
was wondering if anyone else on the list might have a story to tell about
>meeting
Jack or any of the beats. Might be an interesting thread.
>
Phil, May 24, 1997
I remember sitting in your dad's
kitchen, and Tony telling me that
same
story. I think I even put it on tape.
Thanks for your memories.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:01:10 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Bush
Well,
Steve, I think that Barbara Bush is beat, George is pure skull and
cross
bones.
Peace,
Hillary,
no, Bill yes,
Snoopy
yes, Socks the Cat no
me,
yes, my wife, no
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:09:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: hello
Gerald
Nicosia wrote:
> At
09:53 PM 5/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>hi, my name is amy jean, and i am new on this list. i have joined
>
because i
>
>am doing a research project on jack kerouac and i thought that many
> of
the
>
>people on this list would be knowledgeable in that area. My question
>
for
>
>research is, "How did Jack kerouac influence, and how was he
>
influenced by,
>
>the "beat generation"?"
>
>if a few kind people have any ideas on what books would be helpful to
>
me,
>
>or if anyone has any answers to that question themselves, please
>
e-mail me
>
>at
>
>chatfield@voyager.net
>
>i would not like to tie up the list with things that most people
>
would find
>
>annoying, especially because i am new here. : )
>
>thanks.
>
>--amy jean
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>"hold me down, catching my throat, make me pray, say, love's
>
confined."
>
>-r.e.m.
>
>
>
Dear Amy Jean-- May 24, 1997
>
> Thanks for giving me the chance to
show I don't think about
>
literary
>
estates and lawsuits all my waking hours (my little daughter Wu Ji
>
would
>
never allow that).
> Read my biography of Jack Kerouac,
MEMORY BABE (from
>
University of
>
California Press), or if you're not into 800-page books, read a
>
shorter
>
version of things by Steven Turner called ANGELHEADED HIPSTER
>
(Viking); read
>
John Clellon Holmes' NOTHING MORE TO DECLARE (reissued, I believe,
>
from U.
> of
Arkansas Press); read John Tytell's NAKED ANGELS; get ahold of the
>
catalogue to the Whitney Museum Show: BEAT CULTURE AND THE NEW AMERICA
>
(you
>
can order it from the Whitney Museum Book Shop in New York City); and
>
maybe
>
try listening to HOWLS RAPS & ROARS, on record, CD, or tape from
>
Fantasy
>
Records in Berkeley. Better yet, if you
are near California, visit
>
City
>
Lights Bookstore, the poetry and Beat room upstairs, see if you can
>
have
>
coffee with the owner, poet Lawrence Ferlinghetti, and sit in
>
Kerouac's
>
corner in Vesuvio's bar next door, where many of the old Beat poets
>
still
>
hang out, like Jack Micheline, Howard Hart, Eugene Ruggles, and Marty
>
Matz.
>
Beat was a very large community, of which only a small iceberg tip
>
ever got
>
famous; it was supportive, compassionate, open toward life, and in
>
constant
>
pursuit of joy and new experience--and Kerouac led the way.
> Best always, Gerry Nicosia
Amy Jean:
If you
is interested in beat and Kerouac, what better and cooler thing
could
there be than to post an question and get an answer from one of
the
preeminent biographers of Kerouac. Man,
the www is the collective
unconscious. Can you imagine the chat rooms with Neal, Jack,
Allen,
Vidal,
Snyder, Corson, and Rexroth ranting through the night.
Wow,
like a holy vision, it lights up my night!!!!
You
don't know how lucky you are. And I am
glad that I do know how
lucky I
am to be here today.
Thanks
Gerry, and you are just going to have to let the shit slid man.
Sometimes
it works out better that way.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:14:03 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: a calm request-Lisa is right
Phil
Chaput wrote:
>
>If you want to start a serious discussion about Jack, Phil, then
>
answer me
>
>this. Did you know Jack when your
were a kid? Tell us about it.
>
I'm sure
>
>others will be interested and it will allow you and me to talk about
>
>something where we aren't on opposite sides of the fence.
>
>
>
>
>
>Jerry Cimino
>
>
>
>Thanks Jerry, I did meet Jack once although it is not much of a story
>
and
>
it's kind of a sad one to me. It was around 1966 (I'm not sure of the
>
exact
>
date) I was 13 or 14 years old and my father had picked up Jack and
>
the two
> of
them were going to go into Boston for a night out on the town.
Thanks
for the story. As I just said when I
came across Gerry's post to
the
young inquirer, Man, this is a great place to be. I do appreciate
it.
Peace,
PS,
Wasn't
something written by Jack, or by a biographer about a kid from
Lowell
being along on a trip?
Well,
the best I can say is that Jack died on my 16th birthday. October
21.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:19:27 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Philip Whalen
Question
re: Philip Whalen:
Can anyone tell me how much of Whalen's poetry is still in print
and
from
who?
And, does anyone know
where/in-what-book his poem "big, high song to
somebody"
was published?
Thanks, Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky
and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:19:25 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: ...your story Phil and Jack in Brooklyn
That was great to read Phil. Thanks
very much. Tell your brother
that
you now have a bunch of salivating expectant readers waiting...and that
you
won't give out his home address if he writes the damn story! I can put
it in
with this and the piece that you sent me by Nicosia about Jack and
your
Dad on the road to Montreal. Thanks.
Having grown up in Brooklyn - the
Bedford-Stuyvesant/Flatbush/Park
Slope
area - I'd appreciate it if anyone could tell me where in Brooklyn
Jack
was staying with his aunt while he was going to Horace Mann.
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky
and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:32:06 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: a calm request-Lisa is right
Gentlemen! (Phil and Gerry)!
What a
delight to get both of your posts back to back, one after another on
my
email. Nicosia sitting in Chaput Sr.'s
kitchen talking to Phil's brother
about
Jack. All of us having been caught in
the cross fire the last few
days,
who'd have thought it! :^)
Gerry,
what about you? I don't think you ever
met Jack in person, but I
could
be mistaken. And if not, what got you
in to him in the first place.
Maybe
we can put the war aside for a little while and talk about the man
himself. And then if and when we start *debating*
again maybe things will be
a
little more diffused. Whaddya say
all? It's a holiday weekend... even in
real
shooting wars they usually stop firing on Christmas eve and Christmas
being a
long way off maybe this is the next best thing!
Jerry
Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:38:04 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Tony's Story and Gerry's....
Gerry,
Is there an easy way to tell whether
you actually did tape Tony
telling
that story? ...and is it part of the
holdings of your archive at
Lowell?
Thanks Gerry.
Thanks you also by the way for your kind offer of the signed copy
of
"Memory
Babe". A friend beat you to the punch in finding me a copy of an
earlier
edition. The response to my request was amazing, because in rapid
succession
I had e-mails from Derek Beaulieu, Jerry Cimino, and yourself and
a phone
call! from Rod Anstee...all with offers of the book! So, at any
rate,
it's on its way to me - and not a moment too soon. I'm heading into
the
home stretch on McNally's book (after David Rhaesa blew by me at high
speed!
- he had been about 40 pages back when we started tracking each
other's
progress) and will need another Kerouac biography to keep going
with.
Am now interested also in "Angel Headed Hipster" after seeing it
mentioned
several times in recent posts. Still have the Arthur and Kit
Knoght,
Gregory Stephenson, and Challis books waiting in the wings as backups.
How did you come to do the
"Memory Babe" bio? Did you arrive at it
from
academia / teaching?
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky
and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 02:05:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Law suits
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%97052420300442@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Gentle
listmembers, I don't think Beat-l is the proper place to give or
>take
legal depositions. Let's leave any talk
of lawsuits in the
>attorney's
office where they belong or at least threaten each other
>privately.
However,
if suits are filed, please inform the list.
j grant
BE ON THE WATCH
for
items stolen from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic
& Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
302,443
visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 03:43:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cosmic Baseball Association
<cosmic@CLARK.NET>
Subject: Beat and Marriage
>Well,
Steve, I think that Barbara Bush is beat, George is pure skull and
>cross
bones.
-snip-
>me,
yes, my wife, no
>
>--
>Bentz
>bocelts@scsn.net
Is it
possible to be beat and married?
Regards,
Andrew
cosmic@clark.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 03:27:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Law suits
Gerald
Nicosia wrote:
>
> At
10:27 PM 5/24/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Gerald Nicosia wrote:
>
>>
>
>> At 09:34 PM 5/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>> >In a message dated 97-05-24 20:43:44 EDT, you write:
>
>> >
>
>> >>he will be held accountable for whatever he says here that is
damaging
> to
my
>
>> >professional reputation.
>
>> >> Thank you.
>
>> >> Yours truly,
Gerald Nicosia
>
>> >
>
>> >'Seems to me that you should consider suing yourself, too, Gerry.
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>>
>
>> C'mon, Rod, you can do better than that. We expect something REALLY NASTY
>
>> from you. Dennis Rodman
wouldn't even roll his eyeballs at that one.
>
>> Best, Gerry
>
>
>
>What's with all the Rodman-bashing???
>
>
>
Hey, Dave,
>
> I LIKE Dennis Rodman. Why was that a bash?
> Best, Gerry
i
misread. my foul. i like Dennis too.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 03:43:54 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Tony's Story and Gerry's....
Antoine
Maloney wrote:
>
>
Gerry,
>
> Is there an easy way to tell whether
you actually did tape Tony
>
telling that story? ...and is it
part of the holdings of your archive at
>
Lowell? Thanks Gerry.
>
> Thanks you also by the way for your
kind offer of the signed copy of
>
"Memory Babe". A friend beat you to the punch in finding me a copy of
an
>
earlier edition. The response to my request was amazing, because in rapid
>
succession I had e-mails from Derek Beaulieu, Jerry Cimino, and yourself and
> a
phone call! from Rod Anstee...all with offers of the book! So, at any
>
rate, it's on its way to me - and not a moment too soon. I'm heading into
>
the home stretch on McNally's book (after David Rhaesa blew by me at high
>
speed! - he had been about 40 pages back when we started tracking each
>
other's progress) and will need another Kerouac biography to keep going
>
with. Am now interested also in "Angel Headed Hipster" after seeing
it
>
mentioned several times in recent posts. Still have the Arthur and Kit
>
Knoght, Gregory Stephenson, and Challis books waiting in the wings as backups.
>
> How did you come to do the
"Memory Babe" bio? Did you arrive at it
>
from academia / teaching?
>
> Antoine
> Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
> "An anarchist is someone who
doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"
> -- Norman Navrotsky
and Utah Phillips
Right
now I'm reading Memory Babe and Charter's Kerouac at the same
time. very different styles both incredible. I also checked you Dharma
Lion
about Ginsberg but haven't really cracked it yet. though three at
the
same time might be fun.
david
rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 05:13:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: A bright sunny day in May
Hey
Mark,
I got
the Kerouac Quarterly, thanks.
Hows it
going. Still I haven't made it to
Portland but I'm enjoying my stay
here in
Northern California. I might be back to New York for a week or so in
July
but I don't know it I'll make it up north.
well,
now I think that things will start to slowly start dying down. But it
has
been an interesting ride. I personally think I got a little scholarship
out of
this whole thing, since I learned a few new things.
later,
Attila