=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 16:17:59 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Where oh where has my Beat-L gone?

In-Reply-To:  <199705271840.OAA24405@everest>

 

leon is travelling and not sure he has access to modem.

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 16:35:04 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul McDonald, TeleReference LA, Main Info Services"

              <PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>

Subject:      Poem I discovered this weekend

 

So much pain and angst going down.  I thought I'd share a poem from someone I

discovered who REALLY has problems...

 

Paul

 

 

 

 

********************************************************************************

 

 

DIRTY DIAPERS

 

 

I could never understand how the Germans

could hate us, Mother said, just because

we were Jewish, but what's even harder

for me to understand is that you could

hate me just because I'm your mother.

Someone has to tell you to go to bed early,

& if I don't, & you fall asleep in class, your teacher

could tell a social worker from a child abuse agency,

& they could take you away from me,

which might not be so bad if it was

only for a weekend, because I could use

a rest from you, but if it was for

a longer period of time, it'd slowly kill me.

I hope you know that you were a planned child,

your father & I really wanted you, even though

we weren't sure what we were getting.

You weren't an accident, though before

you were toilet trained you had plenty

of those.  And I had to clean it up,

though I never once held it against you,

it just took you a while to develop

the proper sphincter control, & I thought

that when you got older you could make it up

to me, & clean the bathroom for me once in a while.

 

 

 

                        ---Hal Sirowitz

                           from the Book "Mother Said, Poems by

                                          Hal Sirowitz"

 

 

Copyright(c)1996 by Hal Sirowitz

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 16:35:34 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

 

Well, my day and some suggestions have gotten the better of me.

Several people backchanneled me about my proposed letter to the

library at Lowell.  I have recieved some good suggestions, and

one of them is to not send the letter.  Others have posted to

the list their points.

 

My concern is how can we find out what is in the archives, and

if there, who put it there.  That is to say, What did Gerry put

there?  Because the archive is closed, I fail to see how we can

find out, except to ask.

 

I am going to rework slightly the letter tonight, but intend to

send it tomorrow.

 

Any more comments are welcome.

 

Peace,

 

--------------------------------------------------------

Name: R. Bentz Kirby

E-mail: R. Bentz Kirby <bocelts@scsn.net>

Date: 05/27/97

Time: 16:30:47

 

This message was sent by Z-Mail Pro - from NetManage

NetManage - delivers Standards Based IntraNet Solutions

--------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 17:05:19 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Hoops anyone?

 

In a message dated 97-05-27 10:08:31 EDT, you write:

 

<<    The Solitary Riders  vs. The Conspirators

 >         Gerry Nicosia           Rod Anstee

 >         Bentz Kirby              Phil Chaput

 >         Jerry Cimino             Paul Maher

 >         Wes Lundberg          Attila Gyenis

 >         Mike Cakebread        Ann Charters >>

 

I'd rather be on the side I am. Phil said he's bringing the beer and Ann's

making the potato salad.

 

stretching out, Attila

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 17:26:04 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Poem I discovered this weekend

 

wow that was fabulous and such a breath of fresh levity in the otherwise

torpid and moldy environment that Beet-ill has been on this balmy day in the

murder capital of our nation, otherwise known as 'DC'.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 17:38:18 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>

Subject:      Beats out West

 

This summer I'm doing an independent study on 20th Century Western

American Lit, and as my specialty is the beats; I see a lot of connections

between the ideals expressed by the beats and those expressed by the

writers I'm reading.  Aside from political concerns such as environment

and rejection of an outside, displaced authority; there's that idea of

personal, inner freedom as well as the idea of man as a supreme being in

an individual universe which I think Kerouac expressed a lot through his

singular narrative skills.  I'm making my way through Zane Grey for back

ground then into Thomas McGuane (who I've not read but read about), Jim

Harrison, Edward Abbey, John Nichols, and Ivan Doig.  Any thoughts?  Esp.

on McGuane, Harrison, and Abbey.

 

------------------

Alex Howard  (704)264-8259                    Appalachian State University

kh14586@acs.appstate.edu                      P.O. Box 12149

http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~kh14586          Boone, NC  28608

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 16:29:16 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Poem I discovered this weekend

 

 "....& I thought

        that when you got older you could make it up

        to me, & clean the bathroom for me once in a while."

 

        Thanks Paul - perfect voice; I can hear my voice overlaid on my

mother's!

 

                Antoine

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

     "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"

                        -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 17:42:14 -0400

Reply-To:     "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>

Subject:      Mamma said there'd be days like this...

 

>

>Copyright(c)1996 by Hal Sirowitz

>

>

 

If I remember correctly (which I very well might not), I _think_ this poet

was at Hiram College my freshman year in honor of our first poetry slam....

I'm 67.84% sure he was the one...what I do remember correctly is that the

B-Side (our student-run coffee shop where the slam was held) was

_incredibly_ crowded that night, I was sitting in the middle of the floor,

surrounded by people I hardly knew (only as a freshman at Hiram can this

happen :).  Kat Snider Blackbird was the other visiting poet helping us out

with this indenture, & the male visiting poet kept reading these "Mother

Said" poems which had us all cracking up...Sirowitz's been on MTV before,

hasn't he?

 

Diane.

 

--

"This is Beat.  Live your lives out?  Naw, _love_ your lives out!"

                                                        --Jack Kerouac

Diane Marie Homza

ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 15:24:52 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject:      Re: who is your dad? and letter to kerouac

 

At 04:32 PM 5/26/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Hi

>I'm a lurker turning active now.  I have a quick question for phil who

>is your dad is mentioned in any of Kerouac's books or any such thing?

>It seems that a lot of people here have known each other for years

>through families even.  I never met any of the beats but I was going to

>try to meet Ginsburg and as luck has it the year I'm moving back to New

>York he dies.

 

Peter, My father isn't in any of Kerouac's books because my father only got

to know Jack in the last three or four years of his life. I have heard

through Billy Koumantzelis (Jack's close friend) that Jack was writing a lot

during his trip to NY to be on the William Buckley Show. Jack was with my

dad, Billy and Tony Sampas so that stuff may turn up some day. They grew up

in the same parts of town and with the same background (French Canadian

Catholic) but they didn't meet until Tony Sampas introduced him at the

infamous "Nicky's" bar around 1966. My dad's first words to Jack were,

"Always glad to buy a starving author a drink." They became great friends

and I venture to say some of the best times of my dad's life were the few

years he spent with Jack. My dad is mentioned in several biographies though.

His first name is Joe and the best compliment Jack ever paid him is when he

said he was the second best driver he ever knew. Classy company. Phil

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 15:12:56 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Ann Charters & James Stauffer

 

                                        May 27, 1997

        Yesterday James Stauffer wrote:

 

        "In his [Gerry Nicosia's] last backchannel to me he was explaining

how essentially he is responsible for everything Ann Charters knows about

Jack.  She speaks respectfully of him, he can't mention her without

remembering that she didn't take his side with Jan.  Maybe Jan was an angel,

or maybe she was hard to deal with--I don't know, but it seems to me that

Ann's failure to join Jan's cause doesn't just wipe out her biographical and

editing achievements."

 

        Methinks Mr. Stauffer doth protest too much.

        While he always complains about the sound and fury of the estate

battle, he here throws more gasoline on the fire.

        That is not what I said to him in my backchannel.

        AND YES, FOLKS, I'M KEEPING MY WORD ABOUT NO MORE ESTATE FIGHT

POSTINGS, BUT THIS REGARDS A SERIOUS MISQUOTE, AND IT NEEDS ANSWERING.

        After all, Ann Charters probably subscribes to the Beat-List Digest,

which is sent free to all friends of John Sampas.  (That's a joke.)

        In reality, she may well end up reading some of the things that are

written/said here.

        Mr. Stauffer sent me a very leading and provocative question, in

fact a kind of taunt:

        Why, he asked, didn't you quote more from Ann Charters in your

biography of Kerouac MEMORY BABE, since Ann is the preeminent Kerouac scholar?

        I backchanneled him because I really don't want to print critical

things here about Ann, or about anyone.  Ann, incidentally, often disses me

with the best of them.  In the last interview of hers I read in the LONDON

TELEGRAPH, she refers to "Gerald Nicosia ... that tiresome wannabe."

        Anyway, now I'll have to print my backchannel to James publicly,

since, while hardly flattering of Ann, it is nowhere near as dismissive of

her as he makes out.

        The point I was trying to make to him is that, when I began my

biography of Kerouac in 1977, Ann was not the world-renowned Kerouac

authority she is now.  Rather than rehash Ann's biography, I preferred to

learn about Kerouac by going on the road, 50,000 miles worth, and

interviewing 350 people who knew him, as well as reading through thousands

of pages of Beat archives in about a dozen libraries.

        I was also trying to make the point that since 1977 I have lived in

Beat communities of writers, have gone to 100's of poetry readings, given

readings of my own poetry with many Beat poets such as Bob Kaufman, David

Meltzer, and Harold Norse, and staged dozens of readings for others.  I

number at least two dozen Beat writers as close friends, and I doubt Ann can

claim that--and I don't mean "friend" as someone she sees at an occasional

Beat conference or writes to for a contribution to an anthology.  I mean

people who come to my home regularly, spill wine in and on my piano, piss

off my wife, etc.

        I never publicly claimed to have taught Ann anything about Kerouac,

though I suspect she learned a few things from MEMORY BABE.  She quoted from

MEMORY BABE, in fact, when she spoke at the Rencontre Internationale Jack

Kerouac in Quebec City in 1987.  And she referred to it as "the most factual

account of Kerouac's life" in THE BEAT READER.  Before she began calling me

a "tiresome wannabe," she even wrote a blurb for MEMORY BABE that went

"Gerald Nicosia's dedicated scholarship in MEMORY BABE has added important

new material that significantly expands our knowledge of Kerouac and his

literary achievement."

        Do I wish she'd go away as a Kerouac scholar?  No.  I just wish

she'd stop acting as if I should go away.

        Herewith my backchannel to Mr. Stauffer (the part responding to his

question about why there is not more reference to Ann Charter's work in

MEMORY BABE):

 

        "You must remember that when I started MEMORY BABE in 1977, Ann's

was not the "best known" Kerouac biography, it was the ONLY Kerouac

biography.  As such, it was very thin--she had interviewed 20

people--whereas I went out and interviewed 350 people.  My knowledge of

Kerouac's life became encyclopedic and far more thorough than Ann's.  To

this day, she can't tell Janine Pommy Vega from Joanna McClure--at the San

Francisco Book Fair, last November, when WOMEN OF THE BEAT GENERATION was

being promoted with a big panel (Ann was the moderator), Ann misintroduced

Joanna McClure, Michael's wife and a well-known poet herself, as Janine

Pommy Vega.

        I have lived, hung out with, written and read my own poetry among

the Beats for the last 20 years, and I hardly felt there was much Ann could

clue me in on about the Beat world--she who has spent most of her life in

academia.

        Her editing, which has brought her such a big name, only began in

the late 1980's, and then took off like a rocket when Sampas offered her

dozens of projects.  In 1977, she was not known as a Beat editor at all."

 

 

                                                                        --Ge

rald Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 00:10:26 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Arno Selhorst <catweasel@USA.NET>

Subject:      More substantial talk less name-calling.

Comments: To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"

          <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.bitnet@IBM.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>

 

Hey out there!

 

Now, since August 1995 I am a more or less quiet participant of our list

here. I was always suprised by the cautious and friendly manner in which all

of you held your comments about all kinds of Beat related topics. But now,

alas, this spirit got quite spoiled.

 

BUT!

 

Then there are also new members to our community here like Maya Gorton who

just signed on! They might be the next talk-a-lots here. And they are the

ones I put all my hopes into, because they weren't here when the sh.. hit

the fan.

 

Welcome Maya!

 

Talking about Burroughs` Infiltration Theory one can come up with the most

horrible visions of the world we live in today. Wired ran an article on

Information Warfare in it's latest issue. In this article the author claimed

that to conquer a country in this time you will first have to infiltrate

this country with precise misinformation to melt down their own social

bounds within their society (sounds a lot like Burroughs talking here). Just

tell them that their entire country will go down the drain and chaos might

start to fire up. "Those whom the I-War Gods destroy, they first make mad."

(Wired p.228 May `97).

 

I start to worry about Burroughs next visions about society...

 

 

Take care everyone

and stop the name calling in favour for some constructive beat discussion.

 

 

Yours Arno Selhorst

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 20:47:48 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      who are we?

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.ULT.3.96.970527102829.29914A-100000@xx.acs.appstate.e du>

 

WHO,

WHO, are we?

 

i think is a bit

        wrong to leave the list

                        'cuz the amount

                                of posts

 

first u must have

                        an ethical way of life

                                to justify yr decision

 

this american gothic saga

                        'bout the estate

                                is sad awright

                                        but the rude men

                                                are also

                                                        in a

                                                little cest

i think

as

a poster to the list

as

a spontanenous writer

as

thinking machine

 

yrs rinaldo

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 22:08:55 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      WHO, are

 

WHO,

WHO, are we?

 

i think is a bit

        wrong to leave the list

                        'cuz the amount

                                of posts

this american gothic saga

                        'bout the estate

                                is sad awright

                                        but the rude men

                                                are also

                                                        in a

                                                little chest

 

yrs rinaldo

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 22:08:40 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      WHO,

 

WHO,

WHO, are we?

 

i think is a bit

        wrong to leave the list

                        'cuz the amount

                                of posts

 

i think

as

a poster to the list

as

a spontaneous writer

as

a thinking machine

 

yrs rinaldo

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 17:23:35 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Beats out West

 

Alex,

 

        Consider reading Gretel Ehrlich's "The Solace of Open Spaces" and "A

Match to the Heart" (1994). Both great books and great western writing.

Edward Abbey is a complete treat; particularly enjoyed "Desert Solitaire".

 

        And listen to James McMurtry's music (Larry's son!) while your reading.

 

        The latest John McPhee reader has a fine essay about brand

inspectors and rustling in Nevada.

 

        Antoine

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

     "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"

                        -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 15:43:09 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Contest

 

        "Is the accuser always holy now?  Were they born this morning as

clean as God's fingers?"

 

         An autographed copy of MEMORY BABE will be sent to the first person

to correctly identify the source of this quote, both author and work.

One-part answers do not qualify.

        Contest open to all except relatives and employees of Gerald Nicosia.

        Those who already own an autographed copy of MEMORY BABE are asked

not to submit entries.  Coaching friends is acceptable.

        Winner will be notified by email.

 

                                                                -- Gerald

Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 18:45:55 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Desolation Peak

 

My wife and I are thinking of making a trip to Washington State and may take

some time to hike up Desolation Trail to Desolation Peak.  There's a terrific

8 page article complete with photo's by John Suiter in the March 1997 edition

of Shambhala Sun.

 

Has anyone on the list ever done this?  I'm curious as to details.  How long

did it take you, how much time did you spend, where did you stay, etc.

 

An interesting point in the article is Suiter notes of all the fire lookouts

that were in use over the years, only two remain today - Jack's on Desolation

Peak and the one on Sourdough Mountain occupied by Gary Snyder and Philip

Whalen.  Supposedly all the rest are gone - replaced by aircraft overflights.

 

Please send details if you have any.

 

 

Jerry Cimino

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 18:47:24 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: who is your dad? and letter to kerouac

 

woa.  I saw Ginsberg read some poetry @Realityfest, this thing they had when

i went to Columbia.  This guy sitting next to me puked on the floor but other

than that it was a pleasant experience, from the fragmented images i remember

from it.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 18:50:37 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: who is your dad? and letter to kerouac

 

Phil Chaput said:

 

"The best compliment Jack ever paid him is when he said he was the second

best driver he ever knew."

 

 

And I wonder who the first best driver was? ;^>

 

Hey, Phil, did you say earlier Joe was one of Jack's pallbearers?  Tell us

about that if there's a story there.

 

Jerry Cimino

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 18:55:28 -0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         west <anwest@UP.NET>

Subject:      A quickie question

 

alright, I'm new here and basically new to Beat so this may be a stupid

question, but I was reading the portable Beat reader and an excerpt from

junk had a character named Jack that killed somebody with a pipe and a

faucet. Is that Mr. Kerouac?

 

west

 

I belong to the blank generation

and I can take or leave it each time

-Richard Hell

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 18:12:18 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Guidelines for Discourse

 

Over the past month or so, beat-l listmembers have been subjected to a

barrage of querulous and acrimonius posts concerning the Jack Kerouac

Estate and Gerry Nicosia's archive.  Some of these posts have even

degenerated into name calling and accusations of unethical or even

illegal activities.   As a result of the tonethese posts have taken,

several lismembers have unsubscribed and others are threatening to do

so.  Lawsuits have also been threatened.  For the health of the list and

for the protection of the rights of all listmembers, I am establing the

following guidelines for discussion of Beat-l:  1) Copyrighted material

should not be posted to the list without permission (fair use rules

applying) nor should private correspondence be posted without permission

from the author; 2) Listmembers will not accuse each other of various

crimes and misdemeanors on the Beat-l list (What you do privately is

your own business.); 3) Listmembers will refrain from flames, character

attacks, and personal insults in their posts to Beat-l (Again if you

feel compelled to such measures please email your adversary directly.)

Those who violate these rules will be subject to having their posts

blockedfrom the list.  If some of you find such prescriptive guidelines

objectionable, I assure you I found it even more objectionable to have

to propose them.  I am doing my best to save this list and welcome your

suggestions either on the list or privately.   William Gargan

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 19:09:54 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Guidelines

 

Please excuse the typos in my last posting.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 16:18:32 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: Guidelines for Discourse

 

At 06:12 PM 5/27/97 EDT, you wrote:

>Over the past month or so, beat-l listmembers have been subjected to a

>barrage of querulous and acrimonius posts concerning the Jack Kerouac

>Estate and Gerry Nicosia's archive.  Some of these posts have even

>degenerated into name calling and accusations of unethical or even

>illegal activities.   As a result of the tonethese posts have taken,

>several lismembers have unsubscribed and others are threatening to do

>so.  Lawsuits have also been threatened.  For the health of the list and

>for the protection of the rights of all listmembers, I am establing the

>following guidelines for discussion of Beat-l:  1) Copyrighted material

>should not be posted to the list without permission (fair use rules

>applying) nor should private correspondence be posted without permission

>from the author; 2) Listmembers will not accuse each other of various

>crimes and misdemeanors on the Beat-l list (What you do privately is

>your own business.); 3) Listmembers will refrain from flames, character

>attacks, and personal insults in their posts to Beat-l (Again if you

>feel compelled to such measures please email your adversary directly.)

>Those who violate these rules will be subject to having their posts

>blockedfrom the list.  If some of you find such prescriptive guidelines

>objectionable, I assure you I found it even more objectionable to have

>to propose them.  I am doing my best to save this list and welcome your

>suggestions either on the list or privately.   William Gargan

>

>

                Amen.

                                -- Gerald Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 19:23:03 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         MORE OXY THAN MORON <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject:      Re: SAMPAS WHO? Re: a calm request

 

Smart went crazy.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 19:32:23 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         MORE OXY THAN MORON <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject:      Re: SIGNOFF BEAT-L

 

I first met Dean not long after BEAT-L and I split up. I had just gotten over a

serious estate battle that I won't bother to talk about, except that it had

something to do with the miserably weary split-up feeling that the list was

dead...

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 16:44:58 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James William Marshall <iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>

Subject:      Some Old Guy

 

I'm water falling

down a sidewalk

through some tunnel

thinking about my hanging

hang over

when this old guy

with a cane and a cap

that red

miserable old bastard

passed me by

with words

to the effect

it's slippery out here son

and some slippery light

fleetingly filled the tunnel

to illuminate the shephard

and I felt like sheep

keep sliding.

                                               James M.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 19:03:20 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         John Mitchell <mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Beats out West

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.ULT.3.96.970527173104.14181B-100000@xx.acs.appstate.edu>

 

IM HO HO HO, McGuane is Key West literary conch fritters, now Montana

cowboy blues--parallel elf-proclaimed outlaw writer like Willy Nelson, but

not really Beat (which is peculiarly caf=E9 Fran=E7ais in some ways), all dr=

ugs

and refried beans, no Zen and green tea, no Doc Benway really, more

Parrothead than Deadhead, more Margaritaville than North Beach & Greenwich

Village, more island in the sun than road on the go, more Kesian than

Kerouacian, but I'd be interested in what you say anyway.  (My favorite

McGuane thing is an essay, "The Longest Silence," his permit fish story,

where he's not such a nouveau metaphor freak.) // John M.

 

 

>This summer I'm doing an independent study on 20th Century Western

>American Lit, and as my specialty is the beats; I see a lot of connections

>between the ideals expressed by the beats and those expressed by the

>writers I'm reading.  Aside from political concerns such as environment

>and rejection of an outside, displaced authority; there's that idea of

>personal, inner freedom as well as the idea of man as a supreme being in

>an individual universe which I think Kerouac expressed a lot through his

>singular narrative skills.  I'm making my way through Zane Grey for back

>ground then into Thomas McGuane (who I've not read but read about), Jim

>Harrison, Edward Abbey, John Nichols, and Ivan Doig.  Any thoughts?  Esp.

>on McGuane, Harrison, and Abbey.

>

>------------------

>Alex Howard  (704)264-8259                    Appalachian State University

>kh14586@acs.appstate.edu                      P.O. Box 12149

>http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~kh14586          Boone, NC  28608

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 20:07:38 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

 

I Used to Remember Heaven

 

 

 

Purpose with a feeling, Feeling with a purpose.

One of those is right, and yesterday I could remember;

The shadows on the wall, that Socrates saw,

The quantum dream, we ARE each other's dream,

Not just in them. Dream me, I dream you, watcha gonna do?

 

No, I clearly remember that I used to know so much more

Than I know now.  My six year old daughter says,

Daddy will you tell me about God, I seem to be

Forgetting her now, I used to remember heaven.

Oh yes, and so did I Sarah, so did I.

 

 

 

Draft No.1

May 27, 1997

R. Bentz Kirby

Columbia, SC 8:04P.M.

 

 

God bless this list and my children,

 

Peace,

 

I ain't signing off, but I am gonna beat a gone world.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------

Name: R. Bentz Kirby

E-mail: R. Bentz Kirby <bocelts@scsn.net>

Date: 05/27/97

Time: 19:59:40

 

This message was sent by Z-Mail Pro - from NetManage

NetManage - delivers Standards Based IntraNet Solutions

--------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 20:12:13 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bruce Hartman <bwhartmanjr@INAME.COM>

 

Marie,

 

        Do you have any idea when Leon will be rejoining us?

 

 

Thanks,

 

Bruce

--------------------------

bwhartmanjr@iname.com

http://www.geocities.com/~tranestation

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 20:17:41 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      Re: SIGNOFF BEAT-L

In-Reply-To:  <009B4E5D.2A677520.9@kenyon.edu>

 

On Tue, 27 May 1997, MORE OXY THAN MORON wrote:

 

> I first met Dean not long after BEAT-L and I split up. I had just gotten over

 a

> serious estate battle that I won't bother to talk about, except that it had

> something to do with the miserably weary split-up feeling that the list was

> dead...

 

Doesn't Jack in this intro sound much like Salinger, beginning of _Catcher

in the Rye_? Now has this been mentioned before, or am I imagining a

discussion that never was?

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 17:22:33 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      setting record straight

 

                        May 27, 1997

 

Yesterday James Stauffer wrote:

        "My recollection is that Gerry Nicosia brought this fight to this list."

 

No, James.  Joe Grant started some posts here back in April.  I did not tell

him to do this, nor did I know he was doing it.  Joe then emailed me and

told me that, in response to his posts, Mr. Anstee and Mr. Chaput were

saying some rather scathing things about me.

        Hearing that--especially after having helped Rod Anstee with his

Kerouac projects for 13 years--made me decide to jump on here and tell my

own side of the story.

        The next thing I knew I was being charged with everything from

attacking the Lowell Kerouac Committee to selling stolen goods.

        Just setting the record straight.  Not flaming.

        Best, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 20:38:09 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: spontaneous sidewalk re-worked.

 

In a message dated 97-05-26 23:23:50 EDT, you write:

 

<< Tomorrow, Tuesday, let's have

 everyone on the list post one poem, story, or idea about beat literature. >>

 

Beat-L:

I don't write, just edit, but a friend handed me this poem yesterday.  I

thought it fit.

 

Pam Plymell

 

not finding your stone

under wet, long, half-dim grass

my hand drops

lilac

 

                                       for allen ginsberg,

                                       who is not buried in cherry valley

 

                                                             F. Bjornson

Stock

                                                             Memorial Day

1997

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 17:42:54 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: Lowell author-Jay Pendergast

 

At 06:49 AM 5/26/97 -0400, you wrote:

>In a message dated 97-05-26 00:01:30 EDT, you write:

>

>> May 25,1997

>>  Lowell author and friend of Jack Kerouac, Jay Pendergast died unexpectedly

>>  this afternoon. Jay had just written a story about Jack in Paul Maher's

>>  premiere issue of the "Kerouac Quarterly" his painting that Jack had given

>>  him personally what I called "Beatnik Jesus" was on the cover. He was an

>>  educator that taught English, Irish and American Literature as well as

>>  History, Writing and Anthropology courses.

 

                        May 27, 1997

 

        I taped a long interview with Jay Pendergast on his escapades with

Kerouac.  This is one of the 300 tapes currently under seal, and

deteriorating for lack of proper care, at U Mass, Lowell.  Alas.

        -- Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 20:38:10 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Dirk Vulgate <BIGDUCK2@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Thugs

 

In a message dated 97-05-27 12:11:33 EDT, you write:

 

<<         I hope the past week has been instructive to you all.

         We have seen the three chief representatives of Mr. Sampas's point

 of view--Phil Chaput, Rod Anstee, and Paul Maher--employ the tactics of

thugs.

         I do not know whether any of these three has been hired by Mr.

 Sampas to

         Yours for the truth, Gerald Nicosia

  >>

 

     You are the biggest hypocrite I've ever listened to rant bullshit

anywhere. You are truly a sick person, Nicosia.

     You have misled people here with your particular style of exaggaration

and lies. You have set back the cause of the preservation of Jack's works

irreparably. You have bullied your way around the BeatList, just as you've

bullied your way into every event where people had the audacity not to invite

you.

     No one owes you anything, Nicosia. For that matter, until the

"fraudulent will" is proven (and I for one believe it is a forgery), John

Sampas doesn't owe anyone anything either. People who own and collect

Kerouac's papers, whether they're named Johnny Depp or Rod Anstee, also owe

you nothing, nor do they owe anything to the world. No one in this entire

battle is doing anything illegal - no one!

     Even John Sampas, who obviously cares nothing for Kerouac's work and is

only trying to wring as many dollars out of DeadJack as he can is not a

criminal - at least, it hasn't been proven yet that he is. He demonstrated

his bad taste with the pathetic San Francisco Blues, his gigantic ego with

all his constant credit lines stamped on everything having anything to do

with Kerouac, and his lack of a clue with the choices of artists and

insulting performances on the putrid "kicks joy darkness" "tribute" CD. He

disgusts me, but you make me angry, because you've insinuated yourself into

the forefront of this issue, pushing everyone else out of the picture.

     Look at the people you've alienated and hurt while constantly invoking

so-called Christian ethics and always signing off with the bitterly

sarcastic, phony, Nixon-plastic "Best, Gerry Nicosia." These people,

including Levi, Attila, Rod and Phil are all human beings--good human beings,

and they all have one thing in common: They once were your allies, and now

they are not.

     But they're all too good to be your enemies. They know better. They

don't play your game of dividing people up into "All-Evil" or "All-Holy"

camps. These men, and the trail of bodies you've left behind you in your life

pulling the same stunts with former friends, they all know that life is not

black and white. They can find gray areas. That's where most of us live our

lives every day.

     No one wants to work with you. No one wants to see you gain "control" of

Kerouac's archives. What "manifest destiny" has your fevered brain dreamed up

to make you believe it's okay to stampede over American literature and worry

about the consequences later? Your rampant ego and gigantic clay feet take up

all the room there is for rational discourse. I hope you fall on your own

sword, I really do.

     I'm sorry that by writing this letter there will be a new flame war on

the list. But someone had to stand up and say we are ALL human here. Nicosia

is not a god; he's not even an unflawed authority on Kerouac. No one is.

     If anyone here did some research into the history of Nicosia's

relationships with Anstee, Charters, Kovic and others he's mentioned in his

vomit of posts, you would understand that all his protests are simply a

Wizard of Oz curtain to keep people from seeing the wreckage of his own past.

     I issue these opinions under my right to free speech, without cursing or

lying. I will not post again on this issue no matter what the response is

because this is all I want to say. Anyone who wants to comment directly to me

is welcome. But I'm not going to clog up the list with defenses of my

position or futile arguments.

     This I vow, D. Vulgate, 5-27-97

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 20:50:53 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject:      Re: Guidelines for Discourse-Sad day for beat-l

 

At 06:12 PM 5/27/97 EDT, you wrote:

>Over the past month or so, beat-l listmembers have been subjected to a

>barrage of querulous and acrimonius posts concerning the Jack Kerouac

>Estate and Gerry Nicosia's archive.  Some of these posts have even

>degenerated into name calling and accusations of unethical or even

>illegal activities.   As a result of the tonethese posts have taken,

>several lismembers have unsubscribed and others are threatening to do

>so.  Lawsuits have also been threatened.  For the health of the list and

>for the protection of the rights of all listmembers, I am establing the

>following guidelines for discussion of Beat-l:  1) Copyrighted material

>should not be posted to the list without permission (fair use rules

>applying) nor should private correspondence be posted without permission

>from the author; 2) Listmembers will not accuse each other of various

>crimes and misdemeanors on the Beat-l list (What you do privately is

>your own business.); 3) Listmembers will refrain from flames, character

>attacks, and personal insults in their posts to Beat-l (Again if you

>feel compelled to such measures please email your adversary directly.)

>Those who violate these rules will be subject to having their posts

>blockedfrom the list.  If some of you find such prescriptive guidelines

>objectionable, I assure you I found it even more objectionable to have

>to propose them.  I am doing my best to save this list and welcome your

>suggestions either on the list or privately.   William Gargan

>

>This is really a shame that it had to come to this. I want you to realize

Bill that I stopped all the bullshit after you POLITELY asked about it over

five days ago and I have been bombarded with insults since that time and

have even been called a coward (a new one for me). I still remained silent.

Please feel free to go over my posts since that time so you can understand

that I had no part in this since you and several others POLITELY asked all

involved to cool it and I said I would out of respect to the listmembers. I

had one post denying that I had ever called Gerry a thief and in return for

that denial I received a threat from Gerry that he would sue me. I can

understand that if someone threatens to sue the beat-l (namely Nicosia) you

have to take some kind of action but I feel that Jack and Allen would roll

over in their graves if they knew the beat list was now CENSORED. It is a

sad day indeed and I myself am considering signing off. I will see you folks

in Nashua when I pay my final respects to Jan Kerouac.

Phil Chaput

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 21:04:56 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         MORE OXY THAN MORON <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Guidelines for Discourse-Sad day for beat-l

 

Bad list members must stand in the cyber corner!

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 21:03:35 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz kirby

Subject:      no you don't

 

Phil:

 

You can't sign off until we see whether you got a basketball game or

not.  "Chink" (hitting nothing but chain here).

 

I am only 43, so I figure, I got an advantage here somewhere!!

 

:-)

 

Peace,

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 21:01:59 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Thugs

In-Reply-To:  <970527203743_156389426@emout18.mail.aol.com>

 

On Tue, 27 May 1997, Dirk Vulgate wrote:

 

> He demonstrated

> his bad taste with the pathetic San Francisco Blues, his gigantic ego with

> all his constant credit lines stamped on everything having anything to do

> with Kerouac, and his lack of a clue with the choices of artists and

> insulting performances on the putrid "kicks joy darkness" "tribute" CD.

 

Okay. What's "San Francisco Blues"? As for jkd, which performances did you

think were insulting (besides the Aerosmith guy)?

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 21:07:46 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz kirby

Subject:      Beat list

 

BEAT-L

 

There ain't no bodies to hide,

There ain't no blood to wipe,

Nothing but reputation,

And that won't matter in 100 years.

BEAT-L, the rumors of your death

Are not true,

The rumors of your suicide are lies,

The rumors of your demise are all lies.

 

In my eyes, the BEAT is BEAT,

And when it BEATS, its heart,

Can drown it all in an immense

Jug of wine, not whine, that

We all must drink and it becomes

Our blood at last.

 

Do not leave, if you do, you will miss it!!

BEAT go on, BEAT go on.

 

Bentz Kirby

May 27, 1997 9:07 PM

Columbia, SC

 

Peace,

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 21:10:11 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tipper Quigg <quigg@INFORAMP.NET>

Subject:      is this about the Beats???

 

        I literally signed on to this list tonight, in hopes that I can find

some people to discuss my favorite authors..But instead I get all this flame

war stuff, out of the 7 post I recieved 6 of them were about legal

battles...I was just wondering, is some legal page?  is there one that has

to do with the writing?  Is this flaming just a rare occurance or is this

pretty common because as much as I love Kerouac and Burroughs, I don't think

I can sit through this stuff...Maybe I'm over reacting but I've since this

kinda stuff on other lists...Please say there are people out there who will

talk to me...

 

 

 

 

help the economy...buy a Neil Young album...

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 21:10:59 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Guidelines for Discourse

In-Reply-To:  <BEAT-L%97052718584517@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

 

thanks, bill.

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 21:11:03 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

In-Reply-To:  <199705280012.UAA11057@everest>

 

>Marie,

>

>        Do you have any idea when Leon will be rejoining us?

 

_________

hey there bruce: he'll be gone for two (or more?) weeks, had plans to hook

up service and post to us, wasn't sure.

all is well,

knowing leon, he's having a hell of a good time.

mc

z

z

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 18:13:57 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: Thugs

 

... you've insinuated yourself into

>the forefront of this issue, pushing everyone else out of the picture....

>     I'm sorry that by writing this letter there will be a new flame war on

>the list....

>     This I vow, D. Vulgate, 5-27-97

>

 

Dear Mr. Vulgate:

 

        I certainly had a right to post "Thugs," after having been the only

person on this Beat-List to be accused of crimes (and don't say I accused

John Sampas of actual crimes unless you can go back and find an actual

posting, please--no more misquotes and rumors).  I was the only person on

this list to have my privacy and my copyright in unpublished, personal

correspondence infringed upon.

        Happy I would have been had Jan Kerouac lived to take her case to

trial by herself.  This thing has taken up too much of my time, energy,

emotion, and money, and I wish somebody else was in a position to carry on

Jan's fight.  But as her literary executor, she put the torch in my hand,

and I'm doing my best to carry it for her.  Yes, it's taken a heavy toll on

my life, and put a lot of strain on our household, but my life is not a

"wreckage" by any means.

        And, listen, good sir, Mr. Gargan has asked people to stop using

emotional words, such as your letter is full of: "stunts," "rampant ego,"

"gigantic clay feet," "sarcastic," "phony," "Nixon-phony," "bully," "trail

of bodies," "play your game," "stampede over," "Wizard of Oz curtain," etc. etc.

        I used to teach rhetoric, good sir, and your letter is a virtual

textbook of what they used to call "appeal to emotion."  So please stop

conning us and saying you don't want to create a new flame war.

        What, are you upset that Nicosia has stopped taking the bait?

        No, sir, I'm not going to flame at you.  If that disappoints you,

I'm sorry.

        I'm only going to ask you to observe the guidelines which good Mr.

Gargan has wisely set down.

        Best always (and I mean it), Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 21:58:34 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Why We Shouldn't Study Kerouac

 

In a message dated 97-05-26 18:59:32 EDT, you write:

 

<< Anstee already purchased major items from the Kerouac Archive for

 his private collection, which have gone up tremendously in value >>

 

 

Gerry:

 

Please let us know what major items Rod Anstee purchased from Mr. Sampas?

 

Thanks -

JW

WRB

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 21:53:14 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: "Purchased" versus "Donated"

 

In a message dated 97-05-26 18:23:37 EDT, you write:

 

<<  In fact, I did not like the idea of selling the archive to Weinberg,

 since he would give me no guarantee about keeping the archive together, >>

 

Gerry:

 

I do not believe that negotiations that we have had about the sale of your

archive is the business of the Beat-L. It is my business and your business

only. If you want to discuss my business in any open forum like the Beat-L ,

please ask me first.

 

I will clarify one point, however, in reference to your statement quoted

above.

 

I made the decision not to purchase your archive because in my opinion at the

time, your asking price was simply too high. You never refused to sell me

your archive because I would not guarantee to keep it together. If I had

agreed to your asking price, you would have gladly cashed my check....

 

Of course, I know that Rod was the person who first brought this matter up to

this forum  when he quoted from your letter to him....Yes - Rod is a very

good friend of mine but I do not think he should have quoted from your

private correspondence....

JW

WRB

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 21:42:49 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>

Subject:      how annoying some of these whiny people are!

 

Who gives a rat's ass about your stupid opinions? no one wants to read a

whole e-mail of just you whining about and insulting Mr. Nicosia.  Yes, I'm

talking to you, but i deleted your message so fast i lost the address.

Anyway. That is so boring and stupid.  So there.  Have a SUPER day.

Can we talk about something OTHER than Jack Kerouac now? PLEASE?? I think the

fact that no one is fighting over Burroughs' stuff attests to his superiority

over any of the other beats.  Both as an artist and as a person. At the risk

of starting another argument, I will venture to say that I never did like

that "on the road" crap anyway.  (I went to the festival in Lowell, Mass and

had a great time but simply prefer burroughs) ok,

bye.........marioka7@aol.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 18:26:18 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: Guidelines for Discourse-Sad day for beat-l

 

.... I

>had one post denying that I had ever called Gerry a thief and in return for

>that denial I received a threat from Gerry that he would sue me. I can

>understand that if someone threatens to sue the beat-l (namely Nicosia) you

>have to take some kind of action but I feel that Jack and Allen would roll

>over in their graves if they knew the beat list was now CENSORED. It is a

>sad day indeed and I myself am considering signing off. I will see you folks

>in Nashua when I pay my final respects to Jan Kerouac.

>Phil Chaput

>

 

C'mon, Phil:      May 27, 1997

 

        I never said you called me a thief, I said you accused me of

breaking the law in selling Kerouac xeroxes to Lowell, but you never

produced the statute that made this a crime.  To accuse someone of a crime

falsely is libel.  Since when is it censorship for Mr. Gargan to ask people

to desist from libel?  The fact that libel is a criminal act is the law of

the land, Phil, not Mr. Gargan's whimsy.  And he's also asking people to

stop breaking the law by publishing my private correspondence here.

        You want a license to break the law?  Fine, go somewhere else.  We

don't need any lawbreakers here.

        Actually I think Jack already rolled over in his grave when his

volume of SELECTED LETTERS was censored.

        And it's curious you and Mr. Sampas got invited to Jan's funeral,

when I didn't.  How much time did you guys spend with her in those last

five, hard, 4-dialyis-a-day years?  Did you ever watch her do a dialysis, Phil?

        Just wondering.  I did.

        Best always, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 21:15:16 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz kirby

Subject:      Re: Guidelines for Discourse-Sad day for beat-l

 

MORE OXY THAN MORON wrote:

 

> Bad list members must stand in the cyber corner!

 

 ROTFLMAO, and please, I didn't mean it, it was my evil twin, George

Bush.

 

Hell, I wasn't even on the grassy knoll, I was up in this damn book

building.  Shit all these damn bullet casings came  flying by the

window, and I coulda sworn to a God if there was one that Oliver Stone

was there, but, it could a been PeeWee Herman, there were some stains on

em.  Anyway, I saw it all with my out of body self.  It was on an astral

projection from my 6th Grade English class in Easley SC.  I'm still

pissed that they called off the trip to the county courthouse to see the

Indian arrowheads.  But shit man, I was punished.   I got stung by 5

yellow jackets when God and my mother saw me out playing instead of

watching the Jack Kennedy funeral, so I will stand in the cyber corner

rather than have to deal with those yellow jackets again.

 

Oh yeah, Pretty Boy Floyd wasn't there either.

 

It was not beat.

 

HA, HA, HA , HA,

 

I am not paranoid either, I just hate corners!

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 22:21:01 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Rod Is Off Base!

 

In a message dated 97-05-26 23:17:24 EDT, you write:

 

<<  You

 are a very low human being indeed.  I won't ever trust another word you say.

  This is dispicable! >>

 

Hey, Jerry C:

 

I for one am now fed up with the personal attacks against Rod or anyone on

this list. It's one thing to disagree - it's another thing for a grown man to

start with this bullshit.

 

Do what Webmaster Bill Gargan asked you to do - take it outside and make it

private.

 

You are ruining the community spirit we ahave all tried to build up the last

few years.

Go start your own list about the archive controversy.

 

People who were once active on this list are now afraid to post anything

here.

They don't realize that the barks of the big boys are in reality just

whimpers...

Alot of fine folks feel intimidated by your remarks and Gerry's and Jo

Grant's and Rod's remarks....

 

Let's get back to why this list was formed by Bill Gargan through the

cooperation of Brooklyn College -

 

To promote lively discussions about Beat literature and Beat writers.....

To call someone you do not know a low human being is bad news....

Please go away and take your insults with you....

 

Jeffrey H. Weinberg

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 19:29:00 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Dirk Vulgate or Paul Maher?

 

    May 27, 1997

To Bill Gargan and the Good Folk on the Beat-L:

 

        Just when we're trying to get things down to a calm, civilized

dialogue again, there appears a Mr. Dirk Vulgate, ranting and raving at a

fevered emotional pitch.

        DID ANYONE NOTICE THE UNCANNY RESEMBLANCE OF THE NEWLY ARRIVED MR.

VULGATE'S RHETORICAL STRUCTURES, PHRASING, AND VOCABULARY TO THAT OF THE

RECENTLY DEPARTED PAUL MAHER?

        Both Mr. Maher and Mr. Vulgate have a way of screaming "I don't owe

you..." "No one owes you..."

        Both of them like to throw the words "sick" and "hypocrite" around a

lot.

        It's funny, but a lot of people don't realize their language,

sentence structure, etc., has a signature that is as recognizable to the

trained eye as a person's handwriting.

        Even more curious, this fellow Vulgate, who hates me so much he

wants me to "fall on my sword," tells me he "believes the will is a forgery."

        Is that so we will know for sure it couldn't be Paul Maher, who has

made a point of saying he knows the will is genuine?

        Nothing he says in the rest of his letter gibes with his belief that

the will is a forgery.

        So is the next step that we now have impostors in silly masks

stepping on to the stage to keep the flame war going?

        Mr. Gargan, please put a quick end to this.

        The rules of civilized discourse now apply, whether your name is

Paul Maher, Dirk Vulgate, or Jimmy Poodlewhorfer (to plagiarize JK).

        No one says you can't talk about the estate fight.  No one says you

can't say you dislike Gerry Nicosia.  Only have a reason and a logical

explanation.  Don't start throwing criminal accusations at me (or anyone

else) or attacking somebody's personal life.

        If that's censorship, I think Jack Kerouac would applaud it.

        Jack, after all, changed names in his novels and even descriptions

so as not to hurt people's feelings.

        Best always, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 22:36:07 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: signoff

 

Dear Beat-L Members:

 

Before all 200+ of you sign off, please remember that Beat-L T-shirt list.

I ordered enough shirts to cover that list and I certainly can't use 200

shirts myself!

 

The Beat-L T-shirt with artwork by S. Clay Wilson will be ready to ship in

approx.

2-3 weeks.

 

I kept my part of the bargain by fronting the money to pay Wilson and to pay

for the shirts to be printed up....Please keep your part of the bargain

also...

 

Thanks -

 

Jeffrey Weinberg

Beat-L T-shirt Dept.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 19:43:19 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: SIGNOFF BEAT-L

 

MORE OXY THAN MORON wrote:

>

> I first met Dean not long after BEAT-L and I split up. I had just gotten over

 a

> serious estate battle that I won't bother to talk about, except that it had

> something to do with the miserably weary split-up feeling that the list was

> dead...

 

 

This may be the best post on the JKEK (The Jack Kerouac Estate

Kontroversy).  I found myself filled with nostalgia for the Old Beat-L

today.  25-40 posts aday.  Most on topics relevant to the list.  No

legal wars, not too much self-indulgent bullshit (well there was Ron

Whitehead, but he was  relatively entitled.) Maybe I'll just sign off

and read the archives.  At least it won't take  two hours a day to go

through even with nuking anything by some nameless folks.

 

J Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 21:35:50 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: how annoying some of these whiny people are!

 

Maya Gorton wrote:

>

> Who gives a rat's ass about your stupid opinions? no one wants to read a

> whole e-mail of just you whining about and insulting Mr. Nicosia.  Yes, I'm

> talking to you, but i deleted your message so fast i lost the address.

> Anyway. That is so boring and stupid.  So there.  Have a SUPER day.

> Can we talk about something OTHER than Jack Kerouac now? PLEASE?? I think the

> fact that no one is fighting over Burroughs' stuff attests to his superiority

> over any of the other beats.  Both as an artist and as a person. At the risk

> of starting another argument, I will venture to say that I never did like

> that "on the road" crap anyway.  (I went to the festival in Lowell, Mass and

> had a great time but simply prefer burroughs) ok,

> bye.........marioka7@aol.com

 

hey i am willing to fight over burroughs stuff the guy is till making

it.

I just ordered my new tee shirt shot with holes.  I  hope the guy with

holster on hip, steel in hand and words strung like fire rides rides and

rides.  I once was giving wsb a ride and was trying to remember the

words to frankie and johnnie and he knew all of them , the old jimmy

rodgers version, did very well.

look at www.exoticaa.com new stuff. and i like it and i am a woman, and

a beat, yet i don't care if my wife appreciates or not because he is my

husband and better just stick to his memorizing of numbers. heahha had

way too much estate stuff, waytoomuch

p

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 21:39:06 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: signoff

 

Jeffrey Weinberg wrote:

>

> Dear Beat-L Members:

>

> Before all 200+ of you sign off, please remember that Beat-L T-shirt list.

> I ordered enough shirts to cover that list and I certainly can't use 200

> shirts myself!

>

> The Beat-L T-shirt with artwork by S. Clay Wilson will be ready to ship in

> approx.

> 2-3 weeks.

>

> I kept my part of the bargain by fronting the money to pay Wilson and to pay

> for the shirts to be printed up....Please keep your part of the bargain

> also...

>

> Thanks -

>

> Jeffrey Weinberg

> Beat-L T-shirt Dept.

Can we see it yet? i am so excited, hey rah

p

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 19:54:03 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Beats out West

 

Alex Howard wrote:

 

  I'm making my way through Zane Grey for back

> ground then into Thomas McGuane (who I've not read but read about), Jim

> Harrison, Edward Abbey, John Nichols, and Ivan Doig.  Any thoughts?  Esp.

> on McGuane, Harrison, and Abbey.

 

A great subject, fiction of the west and you have some good things to

work on here.  Mitchell has already replied on McGuane.  Harrison is my

favorite of the group.  Certainly not exclusively a Western writer, like

McGuane, lots of Key West and Upper Peninsula.  But his western stuff is

wonderful for me.  Not leading edge stylistically, but very tight clean

writing.  Dalva is a wonderful novel and one of the richest female

figures in a modern man's novel.  Revenge and and the other novella's

probably my favorites tho.  Very spare and strong.  Much better than the

movies made from them which seem bloated.  Harrison is like a latter day

Hemingway.  He writes beautifully about food, hunting dogs, women  and

drinking and doping.  Sort of like Hemingway without the suicidal edge

and less sentimental. His Michigan stuff does less for me but that may

be because I have less feel for the country and people.  Nichols is

marvelously funny.  Abbey is a little to ecclesiastical for my taste.

 

Have fun with this one

 

James Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 22:55:09 -0400

Reply-To:     "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>

Subject:      Re: how annoying some of these whiny people are!

 

Reply to message from Marioka7@AOL.COM of Tue, 27 May

 

 

>Can we talk about something OTHER than Jack Kerouac now? PLEASE?? I think the

>fact that no one is fighting over Burroughs' stuff attests to his superiority

>over any of the other beats.  Both as an artist and as a person. At the risk

 

Burroughs is still kicking; wouldn't be as much fun talking about him! :)

 

Truthfully, I've never had a chance (yet) to read anything by Burroughs,

but when (if!) I ever finish _Go_, _Naked Lunch_ is next on my list.

 

Diane.

 

 

--

"This is Beat.  Live your lives out?  Naw, _love_ your lives out!"

                                                        --Jack Kerouac

Diane Marie Homza

ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 23:06:03 -0400

Reply-To:     "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>

Subject:      "we put the 'dis' in disfunctional! :)"

 

Dear Gerry (or anyone else who can help):

 

In a post eons ago (well, probably only 2 days ago, but time gets warped

("let's do the time warp again....) in CyberSpace) you mentioned a bunch of

never-been-published Kerouac stuff.  One title stuck out to me, _

Visions of Lucien_.  Can you (or anyone) give me any more info on this one,

what it's about, when it was written, etc etc?  E-mail privately if you'd

like, ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu

Thanks!

 

Diane.

 

(Was Frank N. Furter Beat?  Or did he just bea...ah, never mind! ;)

 

--

"This is Beat.  Live your lives out?  Naw, _love_ your lives out!"

                                                        --Jack Kerouac

Diane Marie Homza

ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 23:28:08 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Paul Maher <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Dirk Vulgate or Paul Maher?

 

At 07:29 PM 5/27/97 -0700, you wrote:

>    May 27, 1997

>To Bill Gargan and the Good Folk on the Beat-L:

>

>        Just when we're trying to get things down to a calm, civilized

>dialogue again, there appears a Mr. Dirk Vulgate, ranting and raving at a

>fevered emotional pitch.

>        DID ANYONE NOTICE THE UNCANNY RESEMBLANCE OF THE NEWLY ARRIVED MR.

>VULGATE'S RHETORICAL STRUCTURES, PHRASING, AND VOCABULARY TO THAT OF THE

>RECENTLY DEPARTED PAUL MAHER?

>        Both Mr. Maher and Mr. Vulgate have a way of screaming "I don't owe

>you..." "No one owes you..."

>        Both of them like to throw the words "sick" and "hypocrite" around a

>lot.

>        It's funny, but a lot of people don't realize their language,

>sentence structure, etc., has a signature that is as recognizable to the

>trained eye as a person's handwriting.

>        Even more curious, this fellow Vulgate, who hates me so much he

>wants me to "fall on my sword," tells me he "believes the will is a forgery."

>        Is that so we will know for sure it couldn't be Paul Maher, who has

>made a point of saying he knows the will is genuine?

>        Nothing he says in the rest of his letter gibes with his belief that

>the will is a forgery.

>        So is the next step that we now have impostors in silly masks

>stepping on to the stage to keep the flame war going?

>        Mr. Gargan, please put a quick end to this.

>        The rules of civilized discourse now apply, whether your name is

>Paul Maher, Dirk Vulgate, or Jimmy Poodlewhorfer (to plagiarize JK).

>        No one says you can't talk about the estate fight.  No one says you

>can't say you dislike Gerry Nicosia.  Only have a reason and a logical

>explanation.  Don't start throwing criminal accusations at me (or anyone

>else) or attacking somebody's personal life.

>        If that's censorship, I think Jack Kerouac would applaud it.

>        Jack, after all, changed names in his novels and even descriptions

>so as not to hurt people's feelings.

>        Best always, Gerry Nicosia

>What's your point Nicosia? if I am the author of something I will not hide

behind a "mask"? I don't have "proof" the will is genuine no more than you

do the will is a forgery. I just think it is the real thing. I simply don't

see what would be so "funny" about an invalid woman's (who has suffered a

stroke and is elderly)signature. What is the basis in logic underlying your

conclusion?

                        Signed Paul, the "convicted thief", or just call me

Lord Jim or Raskolnikov...

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 00:15:37 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: is this about the Beats???

 

Tipper Quigg wrote:

>

>         I literally signed on to this list tonight, in hopes that I can find

> some people to discuss my favorite authors..But instead I get all this flame

> war stuff, out of the 7 post I recieved 6 of them were about legal

> battles...I was just wondering, is some legal page?  is there one that has

> to do with the writing?  Is this flaming just a rare occurance or is this

> pretty common because as much as I love Kerouac and Burroughs, I don't think

> I can sit through this stuff...Maybe I'm over reacting but I've since this

> kinda stuff on other lists...Please say there are people out there who will

> talk to me...

>

> help the economy...buy a Neil Young album...

 

Tipper,

 

Welcome.  Just hang in there for a while and all the nastiness will pass.

 There are a lot of creative people here who love literature.  Deep down,

everyone knows that the vision of the beats will not be lost in hassles

over estate matters.  Join in, pick a topic, invite others to discuss it.

 People will talk to you.

 

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 00:34:51 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: how annoying some of these whiny people are!

 

Maya Gorton wrote:

>

 

> Can we talk about something OTHER than Jack Kerouac now? PLEASE?? I think the

> fact that no one is fighting over Burroughs' stuff attests to his superiority

> over any of the other beats.  Both as an artist and as a person.

 

Whoa.  I have to say that if we are talking about the superority of the

one of the beats, my vote is in there for Allen Ginsberg.  He was by far

the greatest poet of the twentieth century, and his voice affected the

whole stratus of socity from politics to music.  He even tirelessly

promoted the works of other beat writers.  I must admit, though, that

since I've joined this list, I've come to see beauty in Kerouac's words

that I never fully perceived before.  I'm rereading On the Road and I

just bought Dr. Sax.  I also was completely taken by the oneness of the

universe described in a poem someone posted last week, the name fails me

right now but it was something about Golden Eternity.  As for Burroughs,

I would have to read a lot more to discuss his work in any detail, but I

think it's great that you prefer him and there are many others here that

can discuss him with you.  Meanwhile, I'm still keeping Ginsberg at the

top of my list.

 

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 20:52:34 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Thugs

 

D vulgate,

 

get real.

 

 

 

At 08:38 PM 5/27/97 -0400, you wrote:

>In a message dated 97-05-27 12:11:33 EDT, you write:

>

><<         I hope the past week has been instructive to you all.

>         We have seen the three chief representatives of Mr. Sampas's point

> of view--Phil Chaput, Rod Anstee, and Paul Maher--employ the tactics of

>thugs.

>         I do not know whether any of these three has been hired by Mr.

> Sampas to

>         Yours for the truth, Gerald Nicosia

>  >>

>

>     You are the biggest hypocrite I've ever listened to rant bullshit

>anywhere. You are truly a sick person, Nicosia.

>     You have misled people here with your particular style of exaggaration

>and lies. You have set back the cause of the preservation of Jack's works

>irreparably. You have bullied your way around the BeatList, just as you've

>bullied your way into every event where people had the audacity not to invite

>you.

>     No one owes you anything, Nicosia. For that matter, until the

>"fraudulent will" is proven (and I for one believe it is a forgery), John

>Sampas doesn't owe anyone anything either. People who own and collect

>Kerouac's papers, whether they're named Johnny Depp or Rod Anstee, also owe

>you nothing, nor do they owe anything to the world. No one in this entire

>battle is doing anything illegal - no one!

>     Even John Sampas, who obviously cares nothing for Kerouac's work and is

>only trying to wring as many dollars out of DeadJack as he can is not a

>criminal - at least, it hasn't been proven yet that he is. He demonstrated

>his bad taste with the pathetic San Francisco Blues, his gigantic ego with

>all his constant credit lines stamped on everything having anything to do

>with Kerouac, and his lack of a clue with the choices of artists and

>insulting performances on the putrid "kicks joy darkness" "tribute" CD. He

>disgusts me, but you make me angry, because you've insinuated yourself into

>the forefront of this issue, pushing everyone else out of the picture.

>     Look at the people you've alienated and hurt while constantly invoking

>so-called Christian ethics and always signing off with the bitterly

>sarcastic, phony, Nixon-plastic "Best, Gerry Nicosia." These people,

>including Levi, Attila, Rod and Phil are all human beings--good human beings,

>and they all have one thing in common: They once were your allies, and now

>they are not.

>     But they're all too good to be your enemies. They know better. They

>don't play your game of dividing people up into "All-Evil" or "All-Holy"

>camps. These men, and the trail of bodies you've left behind you in your life

>pulling the same stunts with former friends, they all know that life is not

>black and white. They can find gray areas. That's where most of us live our

>lives every day.

>     No one wants to work with you. No one wants to see you gain "control" of

>Kerouac's archives. What "manifest destiny" has your fevered brain dreamed up

>to make you believe it's okay to stampede over American literature and worry

>about the consequences later? Your rampant ego and gigantic clay feet take up

>all the room there is for rational discourse. I hope you fall on your own

>sword, I really do.

>     I'm sorry that by writing this letter there will be a new flame war on

>the list. But someone had to stand up and say we are ALL human here. Nicosia

>is not a god; he's not even an unflawed authority on Kerouac. No one is.

>     If anyone here did some research into the history of Nicosia's

>relationships with Anstee, Charters, Kovic and others he's mentioned in his

>vomit of posts, you would understand that all his protests are simply a

>Wizard of Oz curtain to keep people from seeing the wreckage of his own past.

>     I issue these opinions under my right to free speech, without cursing or

>lying. I will not post again on this issue no matter what the response is

>because this is all I want to say. Anyone who wants to comment directly to me

>is welcome. But I'm not going to clog up the list with defenses of my

>position or futile arguments.

>     This I vow, D. Vulgate, 5-27-97

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 22:54:22 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: how annoying some of these whiny people are!

 

Diane Carter wrote:

>

> Maya Gorton wrote:

> >

>

> > Can we talk about something OTHER than Jack Kerouac now? PLEASE?? I think

 the

> > fact that no one is fighting over Burroughs' stuff attests to his

 superiority

> > over any of the other beats.  Both as an artist and as a person.

>

> Whoa.  I have to say that if we are talking about the superority of the

> one of the beats, my vote is in there for Allen Ginsberg.  He was by far

> the greatest poet of the twentieth century, and his voice affected the

> whole stratus of socity from politics to music.  He even tirelessly

> promoted the works of other beat writers.  I must admit, though, that

> since I've joined this list, I've come to see beauty in Kerouac's words

> that I never fully perceived before.  I'm rereading On the Road and I

> just bought Dr. Sax.  I also was completely taken by the oneness of the

> universe described in a poem someone posted last week, the name fails me

> right now but it was something about Golden Eternity.  As for Burroughs,

> I would have to read a lot more to discuss his work in any detail, but I

> think it's great that you prefer him and there are many others here that

> can discuss him with you.  Meanwhile, I'm still keeping Ginsberg at the

> top of my list.

>

> DC

 

my votes, as if anyone cares, are as follows

 

tie for first - burroughs and neal.

 

tie for third - ginsberg and kerouac

 

fifth - corso

 

tie for sixth - everyone else.

 

it seems to me from the little i've gathered so far that burroughs was

the intellectual and anthropological force and neal was the motion and

go go go behind everything else.

 

just my wooden nickel

 

david rhaesa

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 00:04:11 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz kirby

Subject:      Check out this link

 

I am building my link beat page.  Found this site.

 

http://www.mindinmotion.com/kerouac/bums.html

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 01:07:46 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Dirk Vulgate or Paul Maher?

 

Gerald Nicosia wrote:

>

>     May 27, 1997

> To Bill Gargan and the Good Folk on the Beat-L:

>

>         Just when we're trying to get things down to a calm, civilized

> dialogue again, there appears a Mr. Dirk Vulgate, ranting and raving at a

> fevered emotional pitch.

> (snipped)

 

Gerry,

Haven't you ever read something, and then thought, "Wow, that's so far

off base it's not even worth the time it would take to respond to it?"

Just let some stuff go by...I hate to change the sports analogies here

from basketball to baseball, but if the ball is not even in the strike

zone, let it go by without swinging.

 

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 21:40:16 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      More wisdom from Lew Welch

 

from "POSTGRADUATE COURSES"

 

LAW

 

He who chooses for the chicken

gives bounty for the Bob-Cat

 

Lew Welch

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 23:34:13 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Re: is this about the Beats???

 

Tipper,

 

        Any relation to Gore? Sorry, couldn't resist. Please stick around.

There is regularly lots of Beat scholarship as well as fascinating anecdotes

from people who talked the talk adn walked the walk. I'm smarter by miles

having been here now about ten months I think. The recent wars are we

believe a temporary abberation soon to disappear......Welcome and tell us

why and how you came.

 

        Antoine

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

     "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"

                        -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 21:51:34 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: "we put the 'dis' in disfunctional! :)"

 

At 11:06 PM 5/27/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Dear Gerry (or anyone else who can help):

>

>In a post eons ago (well, probably only 2 days ago, but time gets warped

>("let's do the time warp again....) in CyberSpace) you mentioned a bunch of

>never-been-published Kerouac stuff.  One title stuck out to me, _

>Visions of Lucien_.  Can you (or anyone) give me any more info on this one,

>what it's about, when it was written, etc etc?  E-mail privately if you'd

>like, ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu

>Thanks!

>

>Diane.

>

>(Was Frank N. Furter Beat?  Or did he just bea...ah, never mind! ;)

>

>--

>"This is Beat.  Live your lives out?  Naw, _love_ your lives out!"

>                                                        --Jack Kerouac

>Diane Marie Homza

>ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu

>

Dear Diane,     May 27, 1997

 

        It's been a long tiring day, as we try to get the last few

disorderlies here to agree that libel and copyright infringement should not

be part of the Beat List.

        I think we're winning.

        VISIONS OF LUCIEN is an unfinished book, which compiles all JK's

visions of his friend Lucien Carr, just as VISIONS OF CODY compiled all his

visions of Neal Cassady--no particular order, just the mind's association.

        Jack had an idea to do a book tribute to each of his close friends,

but never found time, or lived long enough.

        Best, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 00:53:37 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: is this about the Beats???

 

Tipper,

 

I'd suggest you relax a little bit and take in what is said for a while.

 You've caught the tail end of a "modest' flame war going on right now, but I

promise you if you hang in there for a bit you'll learn more about the Beats

than you'll ever learn anywhere else.  If you have speific questions, ask

them, they'll get answered, by people who know, by people who were there at

the time and people who love the Beats and their works.

 

Jerry Cimino

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 01:05:24 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Dirk Vulgate or Paul Maher?

 

Gerry,

 

Do you really think BIGDUCK2 (Dirk Vulgate) is really Paul Maher?

 

I kinda thought this person might be Rod Anstee as both BIGDUCK2 and Rod are

on AOL.  Paul was on Pipeline although I guess he could have gotten himself a

new ISP.

 

I backchanneled BIGDUCK2 asking who he is but he cameback w/"why should it

matter" and declined to comment.  Kind of makes you wonder about someone who

no one has ever heard of before making a post like that, doesn't it?

 

Has anyone ever heard of Dirk Vulgate?  And Dirk, if you really are a real

person, please identify yourself as such.  I don't want to insult a real

person by claiming they don't exist, but how can you insult a phantom?

 

Wondering...

 

 

Jerry Cimino

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 01:09:36 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: how annoying some of these whiny people are!

 

Maya Gorton wrote:

>I will venture to say I never did like that "on the road" crap anyway.

 

 

Maya!

 

Good Lord!  Talk about fighin' words...  If you're looking to get people's

attention this is a good way to do it!

 

So OK, I'll bite... what makes WSB "superior" to the other Beats?

 

 

Jerry Cimino

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 22:10:20 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: "Purchased" versus "Donated"

 

At 09:53 PM 5/27/97 -0400, you wrote:

>In a message dated 97-05-26 18:23:37 EDT, you write:

>

><<  In fact, I did not like the idea of selling the archive to Weinberg,

> since he would give me no guarantee about keeping the archive together, >>

>

>Gerry:

>

>I do not believe that negotiations that we have had about the sale of your

>archive is the business of the Beat-L. It is my business and your business

>only. If you want to discuss my business in any open forum like the Beat-L ,

>please ask me first.

>

>I will clarify one point, however, in reference to your statement quoted

>above.

>

>I made the decision not to purchase your archive because in my opinion at the

>time, your asking price was simply too high. You never refused to sell me

>your archive because I would not guarantee to keep it together. If I had

>agreed to your asking price, you would have gladly cashed my check....

>

>Of course, I know that Rod was the person who first brought this matter up to

>this forum  when he quoted from your letter to him....Yes - Rod is a very

>good friend of mine but I do not think he should have quoted from your

>private correspondence....

>JW

>WRB

>

Dear Jeffrey,    May 27, 1997

 

        You say our negotiations shouldn't be public business, and then you

go ahead and discuss them here on the Beat-List anyway.

        Jeffrey, how do you know I would have cashed your check?  You

offered me fifteen thousand dollars and then I never heard from you

again--for years.

        As a matter of fact, your unwillingness to answer my questions or

even to get back to me bothered me a lot, and made me think I'd better start

looking at libraries again.

        That's as far as I'm going with this here.

        I've alluded to our rocky past.  I am still hoping our present will

see fruitful projects for both of us.

        Best, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 22:17:37 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: Why We Shouldn't Study Kerouac

 

At 09:58 PM 5/27/97 -0400, you wrote:

>In a message dated 97-05-26 18:59:32 EDT, you write:

>

><< Anstee already purchased major items from the Kerouac Archive for

> his private collection, which have gone up tremendously in value >>

>

>

>Gerry:

>

>Please let us know what major items Rod Anstee purchased from Mr. Sampas?

>

>Thanks -

>JW

>WRB

>

 

Dear Jeffrey:      May 27, 1997

 

        I was alluding to the long singlespaced typed letter to John Clellon

Holmes, which was actually a first draft of a section of VISIONS OF

CODY--which apparently Kerouac didn't send but kept to use in his own

manuscript of the new novel; and also a handwritten unsent letter to G.J.

Apostolos, an important boyhood friend, revealing an important unknown

biographical glimpse of the 19 or 20 year old Kerouac.  For Kerouac not to

have mailed a letter gives it the importance of a notebook or journal

entry--it was obviously a slice of his own life he wanted to hold onto.

        Kerouac letters of this importance have been selling for ten

thousand dollars each at a recent San Francisco rare books fair, and from

what Mr. Anstee told me, he paid a lot less for them when he purchased them

from Mr. Sampas (thru you).

        Best always, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 22:27:06 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: Dirk Vulgate or Paul Maher?

 

At 01:05 AM 5/28/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Gerry,

>

>Do you really think BIGDUCK2 (Dirk Vulgate) is really Paul Maher?

>

>I kinda thought this person might be Rod Anstee as both BIGDUCK2 and Rod are

>on AOL.  Paul was on Pipeline although I guess he could have gotten himself a

>new ISP.

>

>I backchanneled BIGDUCK2 asking who he is but he cameback w/"why should it

>matter" and declined to comment.  Kind of makes you wonder about someone who

>no one has ever heard of before making a post like that, doesn't it?

>

>Has anyone ever heard of Dirk Vulgate?  And Dirk, if you really are a real

>person, please identify yourself as such.  I don't want to insult a real

>person by claiming they don't exist, but how can you insult a phantom?

>

>Wondering...

>

>

>Jerry Cimino

>

Jerry,    May 27, 1997

        A big part of my master's degree was linguistics, so I'm pretty good

at picking up mannerisms of syntax and phrasing.  Anstee's syntax is

elegant, restrained, with a frequent little sarcastic flip at the end.

Maher's is crude, frontal assault.  Unless Anstee is more a master of

imitation than I give him credit for, that was not dear Rod.

        Best, Gerry

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 01:50:28 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Why We Shouldn't Study Kerouac

 

In a message dated 97-05-28 01:43:22 EDT, you write:

 

<<   Kerouac letters of this importance have been selling for ten

 thousand dollars each at a recent San Francisco rare books fair, and  >>

 

wow!

JW

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 22:44:05 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Lisa M. Rabey" <lisar@NET-LINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: Hoops anyone?

In-Reply-To:  <970527170308_-1900877250@emout12.mail.aol.com>

 

At 05:05 PM 5/27/97 -0400, you wrote:

>In a message dated 97-05-27 10:08:31 EDT, you write:

>

><<    The Solitary Riders  vs. The Conspirators

> >         Gerry Nicosia           Rod Anstee

> >         Bentz Kirby              Phil Chaput

> >         Jerry Cimino             Paul Maher

> >         Wes Lundberg          Attila Gyenis

> >         Mike Cakebread        Ann Charters >>

>

>I'd rather be on the side I am. Phil said he's bringing the beer and Ann's

>making the potato salad.

>

>stretching out, Attila

>

 

and i will be the proverbial devils advocate cheerleader ;P~

 

 

--

 

Lisa M. Rabey

Internet and Computer Consultant

San Francisco, California

http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye

**************************************

General man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 23:06:17 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         John Arthur Maynard <prinzhal@IX.NETCOM.COM>

Subject:      Re: is this about the Beats???

 

At 12:15 AM 5/28/97 -0700, you wrote:

>Tipper Quigg wrote:

>>

>>         I literally signed on to this list tonight, in hopes that I can find

>> some people to discuss my favorite authors..But instead I get all this flame

>> war stuff, out of the 7 post I recieved 6 of them were about legal

>> battles...I was just wondering, is some legal page?  is there one that has

>> to do with the writing?  Is this flaming just a rare occurance or is this

>> pretty common because as much as I love Kerouac and Burroughs, I don't think

>> I can sit through this stuff...Maybe I'm over reacting but I've since this

>> kinda stuff on other lists...Please say there are people out there who will

>> talk to me...

>>

>> help the economy...buy a Neil Young album...

>

>Tipper,

>

>Welcome.  Just hang in there for a while and all the nastiness will pass.

> There are a lot of creative people here who love literature.  Deep down,

>everyone knows that the vision of the beats will not be lost in hassles

>over estate matters.  Join in, pick a topic, invite others to discuss it.

> People will talk to you.

>

>DC

>

Roger that.

 

For example, how come nobody ever seems to mention Maggie Cassidy?

 

Struck me between the eyes close to 20 years ago, and I'm still struck.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 02:36:21 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject:      Jan's service

 

At 06:26 PM 5/27/97 -0700, you wrote:

>.... I

>>had one post denying that I had ever called Gerry a thief and in return for

>>that denial I received a threat from Gerry that he would sue me. I can

>>understand that if someone threatens to sue the beat-l (namely Nicosia) you

>>have to take some kind of action but I feel that Jack and Allen would roll

>>over in their graves if they knew the beat list was now CENSORED. It is a

>>sad day indeed and I myself am considering signing off. I will see you folks

>>in Nashua when I pay my final respects to Jan Kerouac.

 

>        Actually I think Jack already rolled over in his grave when his

>volume of SELECTED LETTERS was censored.

>        And it's curious you and Mr. Sampas got invited to Jan's funeral,

>when I didn't.  How much time did you guys spend with her in those last

>five, hard, 4-dialyis-a-day years?  Did you ever watch her do a dialysis, Phil?

>        Just wondering.  I did.

>        Best always, Gerry Nicosia

>

>Gerry, what makes you think that John would get invited. I haven't been

invited but I still would like to go to pay my respects. I met Jan when she

came to Lowell and we had a nice conversation. I got some great photos of

her at the dedication. She was friendly to me and I to her. Why would you

need an invitation to go to a memorial service. Is it a private service? If

it is let me know and I will respect anyones wishes on this. But I just

assumed anyone could go to pay their respects to Jan. Inform us on the list

if you know about it.Phil

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 02:47:53 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

 

Here is another poem. I found it amongst some papers in a file

I was working on, so I figured I would post it and see if

anyone liked it, didn't like it, heard something etc.

 

 

 

Ebony, pure and holy.

Truth resides in eyes

So timeless, so true.

Here is the point

And the departure --

Blessed by God, annointed;

For what?

 

Torture, heartache, despair?

All manner of human pain?

 

I try but senseless it is.

Finding what? Love?

Losing what?  Love?

Something that is incapable of passion;

Something that is incapable of Love;

Something that is incapable of survival?

 

Ebony, pure and holy,

Looking into Linda's eyes.

 

April 12, 1995

Columbia, SC

Bentz Kirby

--------------------------------------------------------

Name: R. Bentz Kirby

E-mail: R. Bentz Kirby <bocelts@scsn.net>

Date: 05/28/97

Time: 02:42:49

 

This message was sent by Z-Mail Pro - from NetManage

NetManage - delivers Standards Based IntraNet Solutions

--------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 02:52:42 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject:      Re: no you don't

 

At 09:03 PM 5/27/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Phil:

>

>You can't sign off until we see whether you got a basketball game or

>not.  "Chink" (hitting nothing but chain here).

>

>I am only 43, so I figure, I got an advantage here somewhere!!

 

Born July 11, 1953 You?

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 05:03:31 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Dirk Vulgate or Paul Maher?

 

Jerry Cimino wrote:

>

> Gerry,

>

> Do you really think BIGDUCK2 (Dirk Vulgate) is really Paul Maher?

>

> I kinda thought this person might be Rod Anstee as both BIGDUCK2 and Rod are

> on AOL.  Paul was on Pipeline although I guess he could have gotten himself a

> new ISP.

>

> I backchanneled BIGDUCK2 asking who he is but he cameback w/"why should it

> matter" and declined to comment.  Kind of makes you wonder about someone who

> no one has ever heard of before making a post like that, doesn't it?

>

> Has anyone ever heard of Dirk Vulgate?  And Dirk, if you really are a real

> person, please identify yourself as such.  I don't want to insult a real

> person by claiming they don't exist, but how can you insult a phantom?

>

> Wondering...

>

> Jerry Cimino

 

perhaps Dick is a phantom ... phantomish talk is not a unique thing for

certain Beat writers.

 

dbr

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 05:07:13 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Hoops anyone?

 

Lisa M. Rabey wrote:

>

> At 05:05 PM 5/27/97 -0400, you wrote:

> >In a message dated 97-05-27 10:08:31 EDT, you write:

> >

> ><<    The Solitary Riders  vs. The Conspirators

> > >         Gerry Nicosia           Rod Anstee

> > >         Bentz Kirby              Phil Chaput

> > >         Jerry Cimino             Paul Maher

> > >         Wes Lundberg          Attila Gyenis

> > >         Mike Cakebread        Ann Charters >>

> >

> >I'd rather be on the side I am. Phil said he's bringing the beer and Ann's

> >making the potato salad.

> >

> >stretching out, Attila

> >

>

> and i will be the proverbial devils advocate cheerleader ;P~

>

 

I'll just play the devil ...

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 06:10:26 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      let's put the fun back in dysfunction!

In-Reply-To:  <970528010935_-128901973@emout07.mail.aol.com>

 

after down loading 57 messages of vitriolic energy.

 

anyone just want to grab a book, or whatever, and party with me?

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 05:15:49 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: let's put the fun back in dysfunction!

 

Marie Countryman wrote:

>

> after down loading 57 messages of vitriolic energy.

>

> anyone just want to grab a book, or whatever, and party with me?

 

I'll be at a truck stop out Crawford by the Interstate....reading

something and smoking too many cigarettes and drinking too much coffee.

 

Feel free to drop by.  I think this morning I'll go to the one called

Russell's.

 

Starting to get memories back on that blue room scene from others.

gradually piecing together.  Derek says we should at least have

cyber-coffee.

 

david rhaesa

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 04:18:56 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James & Anita Brush <brush@AINET.COM>

Subject:      Re: please sign off Beat-L

 

RACE --- wrote:

 

> Marie Countryman wrote:

> >

> > after down loading 57 messages of vitriolic energy.

> >

> > anyone just want to grab a book, or whatever, and party with me?

>

> I'll be at a truck stop out Crawford by the Interstate....reading

> something and smoking too many cigarettes and drinking too much

> coffee.

>

> Feel free to drop by.  I think this morning I'll go to the one called

> Russell's.

>

> Starting to get memories back on that blue room scene from others.

> gradually piecing together.  Derek says we should at least have

> cyber-coffee.

>

> david rhaesa

 

 

Please sign us off Beat-L, thanks.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 07:25:55 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         MORE OXY THAN MORON <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Guidelines for Discourse-Sad day for beat-l

 

Does anyone know some history oh Webster Hall in NYC's Lower East Side? I

remember reading about it in the Mina Loy biography. A few years back, Allen

Ginsberg had his play KADDISH staged in a playhouse roughly in the same area,

does anyone remember if that was Webster Hall? BTW, I had to admit, that play

was a stinker. But what brings me to this point is that I thought Ken Babbs

said that Ken Kesey's play TWISTER will be opening in NYC at the Webster Hall

in about a half month or so. The book and video, published by Viking, will be

out in about the same time, in one package (book and video all in one). Any

enlightment appreciated......Dave B.    PS, am going to see BEAT-L member David

Ohle in Columbus today with James Grauholtz to look at unpublished manuscripts

of Bill Burroughs Jr. if you have any questions to pass along I'd be glad to

ask, thanks (Dave B.)

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 14:31:57 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Moritz Rossbach <moro0000@STUD.UNI-SB.DE>

Subject:      Re: Not Ashamed/Musing

In-Reply-To:  <970526211959_-129048208@emout18.mail.aol.com>

 

Hi folks,

i am not ashamed and i am not a whiny (!?), but would you please stop

dragging germans/nazis/jews/hitler into this !

for quite a while now, i noticed that Americans seem to be obsessed by

comparing anything to the 3rd reich. i am not a historian ever and surely

too young for any experience with the 3rd reich, but there is no

comparison to these times with  your little wars ! if you want to make far

off comparisons, how about the slavery-times ? or discrimination of the

indians ?

stay at home folks !

just a friendly remark from an slightly annoyed german.

              moritz rossbach

              saarbruecken, germany

 

On Mon, 26 May 1997, Jerry Cimino wrote:

> I don't agree with a lot of what you say in your "not ashamed post" and I'm

> glad YOU used the "Good German" analogy and not me as I don't want to be

> acused of calling anyone a Nazi/"Adolph Hitler apologist" or anything else.

>  And I laughed out loud w/regard to your lightbulb joke!

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 09:26:18 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mark Hemenway <mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>

Subject:      Copyright Facts

 

For Authors and Estate Warriors.... The Library of Congress has an

excellent on-line library of copyright information and laws. I got it from

their gohper a couple of years ago, but I assume there is a homepage now.

It shouldn't be hard to find.

 

Mark Hemenway

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 09:12:07 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Czarnecki <peent@SERVTECH.COM>

Subject:      Re: let's put the fun back in dysfunction!

 

>after down loading 57 messages of vitriolic energy.

>

>anyone just want to grab a book, or whatever, and party with me?

 

Hey, how about grabbing a handful of poems and shuffling on up to

Plattsburgh on June 13th/14th for a big poetry reading, wine, creative talk

and a bit of poetic partying? Anyone else interested.

 

Michael

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 09:30:34 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Guidelines for Discourse-Sad day for beat-l

In-Reply-To:  <009B4EC0.D8120A60.16@kenyon.edu>

 

On Wed, 28 May 1997, MORE OXY THAN MORON wrote:

 

 PS, am going to see BEAT-L member David

 Ohle in Columbus today with James Grauholtz to look at unpublished

 manuscripts of Bill Burroughs Jr. if you have any questions to pass

 along I'd be glad to ask, thanks (Dave B.)

 

Just if you can let us know what you see.  I think Bill Jr.  had a lot of

of unrecognized potential and would like to read more from him.

 

------------------

Alex Howard  (704)264-8259                    Appalachian State University

kh14586@acs.appstate.edu                      P.O. Box 12149

http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~kh14586          Boone, NC  28608

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 09:52:00 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: Dirk Vulgate or Paul Maher?

In-Reply-To:  Message of Tue, 27 May 1997 19:29:00 -0700 from

              <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

 

Mr. Vulgate has said that he will not post anything to the list on this matter

again.  Gerry, your reply has been posted.  Can we call it even now and can I h

ave your word that if there's anything more to say on this matter, you and Mr.

Vulgate will deal with it privately?  These flames are tearing the list aprat.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 09:53:45 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bruce Hartman <bwhartmanjr@INAME.COM>

Subject:      Re: let's put the fun back in dysfunction!

 

Michael,

 

        My geographic brain isn't working to well this morning. . .  Plattsburg

where?  If it's not too far from me I might hope on the ol' motorcycle and

make a weekend trip of it. . .

 

 

Bruce

bwhartmanjr@iname.com

http://www.geocities.com/~tranestation

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 10:06:35 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: "Purchased" versus "Donated"

In-Reply-To:  Message of Tue, 27 May 1997 22:10:20 -0700 from

              <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

 

On Tue, 27 May 1997 22:10:20 -0700 Gerald Nicosia said:

>At 09:53 PM 5/27/97 -0400, you wrote:

>>In a message dated 97-05-26 18:23:37 EDT, you write:

>>

>><<  In fact, I did not like the idea of selling the archive to Weinberg,

>> since he would give me no guarantee about keeping the archive together, >>

>>

>>Gerry:

>>

>>I do not believe that negotiations that we have had about the sale of your

>>archive is the business of the Beat-L. It is my business and your business

>>only. If you want to discuss my business in any open forum like the Beat-L ,

>>please ask me first.

>>

>>I will clarify one point, however, in reference to your statement quoted

>>above.

>>

>>I made the decision not to purchase your archive because in my opinion at the

>>time, your asking price was simply too high. You never refused to sell me

>>your archive because I would not guarantee to keep it together. If I had

>>agreed to your asking price, you would have gladly cashed my check....

>>

>>Of course, I know that Rod was the person who first brought this matter up to

>>this forum  when he quoted from your letter to him....Yes - Rod is a very

>>good friend of mine but I do not think he should have quoted from your

>>private correspondence....

>>JW

>>WRB

>>

>Dear Jeffrey,    May 27, 1997

>

>        You say our negotiations shouldn't be public business, and then you

>go ahead and discuss them here on the Beat-List anyway.

>        Jeffrey, how do you know I would have cashed your check?  You

>offered me fifteen thousand dollars and then I never heard from you

>again--for years.

>        As a matter of fact, your unwillingness to answer my questions or

>even to get back to me bothered me a lot, and made me think I'd better start

>looking at libraries again.

>        That's as far as I'm going with this here.

>        I've alluded to our rocky past.  I am still hoping our present will

>see fruitful projects for both of us.

>        Best, Gerry Nicosia

 

 

 Gerry and Jeff, these are just the types of discussions that should be conduct

ed off the list.  Your business is between the two of you.  People on the list

have no reason to view these posts.  I'm sure you both agree and will cooperate

 in future posts.  I post to reply to the list in order to encourage others who

have comments and replies to specific parties to take those posts of the list.

 Thank you for your cooperation.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 10:15:11 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: how annoying!

 

I think wsb explored further and deeper the limits of what can be done with

words....he manipulated them and juxtaposed them to create new associative

pathways, not just poetry but Original Thought.  Although I like the poetry

of the other beats, it's their prose i find less-than-satisfying.  Somehow it

doesn't make my synapses snap, crackle and pop like Burroughs' does.

 Although I enjoy the "moods" of Kerouac and Ginsberg, (sad, nostalgic,

despairing, ironic, gleeful, etc.) I prefer the biting sarcasm and

intersecting plateaus of humor, disgust, bitterness, futility and hope in

Burroughs' work.   Not to mention the intellectual stimulation i get from

reading him, which ultimately, inevitably, climaxes into a physical expulsion

of words/paintings/music by me......

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 10:25:34 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      pome and thoughts of the day

In-Reply-To:  <199705271840.OAA24405@everest>

 

 diane di Prima

"anti copyright"

from Revolution Art Letters

 

THE REVOLUTION OF EVERYDAY LIFE

 

1

if we are going to make anything happen

then we are going to have to get down to it ourselves

because nobody is going to do if for us

 

if we have any power at all it is in each other

not politics, commodity

or our lives being sold out for product

and so called

'progress', the unchecked consumption

of land/spirit/life, not any one thing:

art nature politics business religion or family

once they are not the daily expressions  of life

        with complete participation

desire existence

we end up not thinking for ourselves,

as person, as community, as intimate participant

in the living woven pattern of the universe

 

2

this is a call to end materialist vision

the failed consciousness that  continues to play along a death fault

this is the revolution of the event of living now

living everyday as if it mattered

the tragedy of modern mainstream civilization

is the externalization of the physical universe

 

we must have faith that we are not stuck

isolated in superiority

alienated from the world around us

but involved by our every breath

in the cooperative design of all living things

to meet coincide superimpose

so that the inside and outside are the same

that the substance of yourself is nothing but yourself

in common with everything

 

every human being is an artist

just by being alive

 

 

 

3

the possibility of destruction is always implicit

in the act of creation

 

the greatest enemy of individual freedom

is the individual: we cannot

be free unless we are willing to sacrifice at least some

of our own interests and desires

to guarantee the freedom of others

 

4

we will move in the shadows and traces

of an impenetrable jungle

moon loop ripple that haunts you forever

 

there are things that can be known

the integrity of the entire poetic corpus

becomes an open force field to use

of action and perception

as secret(sacred) image ofthe pre-

being received and heard by a post-individual

across all the intervening  years

continuity -- 'ceremonial time'

 

make use of what you can

what has been said

what is being said

what will be said

 

there are no beginnings or endings or climaxes

but proccesses, becoming

past and present in the poetic consciousness

are not the past and present of history and journalism

thery are not that which was nor that which happens

but that which is being

that which is creating itself

'the continuous present'

 

5

the success of any revolution, whether individual

or as a community taking control

resides only in itself

precisely in the vibrations and openings

it gives to us at the moment of its making

composes in itself history and memory

 

root rot giggle done mound past in dark brown chamber earth

 

opening as beautiful as mallarme's

imagined flowers, in the imagination

dreams hopes and acts of us together

 

6

don't let anyone tell you how much better things were

at any other time or point in historoy

we are all dealing with the same struggle, the same thing

to makes something of the breath given

we will live and create now

 

a generational mixing of ideas images distortions contours

desires examination revolutions

to mix across the boundaries in swirls and gestures

understanding acepting attempting

cultural transformation

the restoration of lostness, a remarking using

language biology phisosophy technology patterns

noise love culture nature fun hate nation and antii-nation

space and blankess and imaginaton making worlds

anything that will open the whole

this life to invention

mixed collaborative creations

to make real our time, here

 

7

to go about this

we must start again as individuals

form small tribes in the contemporary sense

do what we can do to subvert the desruction

of everything that lives

 

show by example that we can be considered (a)part

of the bioregions we inhabit

stand up and refuse to pareticipate

in the death march

'revolution is not the overthrow of the existing system

but the setting up alongside of a better on'

 

8

to know the spirit of a place

is to know that you are a part of a part

and that the whole is made of parts

each of which is a whole

start with the part you are whole in

 

9

as our egoism dies in this new vision

as we are jerked and thrown in through

the gut and jaw and lungs

in and outside of ourselves

we are free to live in ways we never thought possible

a signifcance of transformation to become what you must

enter pattern complete magic argued

wonder seduce intone

 

10

this spectacle of now is to confide in the future

the constantly renewed and resumed struggle

 

cast knowts in patterns on top of patterns

 

free yourself of hierachization

 

develop action thought desires

through patterns of relations and juxtapositions

 

dwell in paradox and mystery

 

mistrust all rigid categories and logical alternatives

 

destroy the repeated forms of expression  immediately

so as to make repetition and incorporation impossible

 

destroy all forms of oppression

against self, against otherness,  nature, universe

and become a set of patterns

a beautiful tapestry of interactions

 

11

that we might rest our heads in each other's hearts

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 10:32:02 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Czarnecki <peent@SERVTECH.COM>

Subject:      Re: let's put the fun back in dysfunction!

 

>Michael,

>

>        My geographic brain isn't working to well this morning. . .  Plattsburg

>where?  If it's not too far from me I might hope on the ol' motorcycle and

>make a weekend trip of it. . .

>

>

>Bruce

 

Be great if you could. A mini-beat-L gathering of sorts.

 

Plattsburgh, far northeastern New York State on the shores of Champlain,

not too far from ole Montreal and in sight of theancient ones, the

Adirondacks! I'll be driving up from Corning, NY - Finger Lakes, NY through

Oneonta, Schenectedy/Albany etc.

 

best,

Michael

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 09:41:03 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Re: let's put the fun back in dysfunction!

 

What's going on in Plattsburgh on the 13th/14th? It's only an hour from

Montreal.

 

        Antoine

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

     "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"

                        -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 10:56:39 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bruce Hartman <bwhartmanjr@INAME.COM>

Subject:      Re: let's put the fun back in dysfunction!

 

Michael,

 

        Northeast New York state?  That's a little far for a weekend trip for me.

. .  I'm in Chesapeake, Virginia.  Sounds fun, though.  If you guys make it

happen, have a ball.  I'll be thinking of you.

 

 

Bruce

bwhartmanjr@iname.com

http://www.geocities.com/~tranestation

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 May 1997 10:06:50 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: let's put the fun back in dysfunction!

 

Bruce Hartman wrote:

>

> Michael,

>

>         Northeast New York state?  That's a little far for a weekend trip for

 me.

> . .  I'm in Chesapeake, Virginia.  Sounds fun, though.  If you guys make it

> happen, have a ball.  I'll be thinking of you.

>

> Bruce

> bwhartmanjr@iname.com

> http://www.geocities.com/~tranestation

 

sounds wonderful.  quite far from kansas.  i remember the ferry ride

from burlington across to Plattsburgh.  it happened i was there on a

homecoming weekend and the memories of the school band marching and

playing still hurt my ears.

 

i will be with you in spirit.  hope you bring back good memories from

the event to report here on the list.  as a wish-i-was-there-a-be, the

best i'll be able to do is attempt to create something from memories of

the area in something imaginative to share as well.

 

and for marie.  thanks for the wonderful poem.  it brightened a very

gloomy day.  felt the words stab at points that needed a good stabbing.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================



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