=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 16:17:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Where oh where has my Beat-L gone?
In-Reply-To: <199705271840.OAA24405@everest>
leon is
travelling and not sure he has access to modem.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 16:35:04 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: "Paul McDonald, TeleReference
LA, Main Info Services"
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: Poem I discovered this weekend
So much
pain and angst going down. I thought
I'd share a poem from someone I
discovered
who REALLY has problems...
Paul
********************************************************************************
DIRTY
DIAPERS
I could
never understand how the Germans
could
hate us, Mother said, just because
we were
Jewish, but what's even harder
for me
to understand is that you could
hate me
just because I'm your mother.
Someone
has to tell you to go to bed early,
&
if I don't, & you fall asleep in class, your teacher
could
tell a social worker from a child abuse agency,
&
they could take you away from me,
which
might not be so bad if it was
only
for a weekend, because I could use
a rest
from you, but if it was for
a
longer period of time, it'd slowly kill me.
I hope
you know that you were a planned child,
your
father & I really wanted you, even though
we
weren't sure what we were getting.
You
weren't an accident, though before
you
were toilet trained you had plenty
of
those. And I had to clean it up,
though
I never once held it against you,
it just
took you a while to develop
the
proper sphincter control, & I thought
that
when you got older you could make it up
to me,
& clean the bathroom for me once in a while.
---Hal Sirowitz
from the Book
"Mother Said, Poems by
Hal Sirowitz"
Copyright(c)1996
by Hal Sirowitz
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 16:35:34 -0400
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Well,
my day and some suggestions have gotten the better of me.
Several
people backchanneled me about my proposed letter to the
library
at Lowell. I have recieved some good
suggestions, and
one of
them is to not send the letter. Others
have posted to
the
list their points.
My
concern is how can we find out what is in the archives, and
if
there, who put it there. That is to
say, What did Gerry put
there? Because the archive is closed, I fail to see
how we can
find
out, except to ask.
I am
going to rework slightly the letter tonight, but intend to
send it
tomorrow.
Any
more comments are welcome.
Peace,
--------------------------------------------------------
Name:
R. Bentz Kirby
E-mail:
R. Bentz Kirby <bocelts@scsn.net>
Date:
05/27/97
Time:
16:30:47
This
message was sent by Z-Mail Pro - from NetManage
NetManage
- delivers Standards Based IntraNet Solutions
--------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 17:05:19 -0400
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From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Hoops anyone?
In a
message dated 97-05-27 10:08:31 EDT, you write:
<< The Solitary Riders vs. The Conspirators
>
Gerry Nicosia Rod
Anstee
>
Bentz Kirby Phil
Chaput
>
Jerry Cimino Paul
Maher
>
Wes Lundberg Attila
Gyenis
>
Mike Cakebread Ann
Charters >>
I'd
rather be on the side I am. Phil said he's bringing the beer and Ann's
making
the potato salad.
stretching
out, Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 17:26:04 -0400
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From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Poem I discovered this weekend
wow
that was fabulous and such a breath of fresh levity in the otherwise
torpid
and moldy environment that Beet-ill has been on this balmy day in the
murder
capital of our nation, otherwise known as 'DC'.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 17:38:18 -0400
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From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Beats out West
This
summer I'm doing an independent study on 20th Century Western
American
Lit, and as my specialty is the beats; I see a lot of connections
between
the ideals expressed by the beats and those expressed by the
writers
I'm reading. Aside from political
concerns such as environment
and
rejection of an outside, displaced authority; there's that idea of
personal,
inner freedom as well as the idea of man as a supreme being in
an
individual universe which I think Kerouac expressed a lot through his
singular
narrative skills. I'm making my way
through Zane Grey for back
ground
then into Thomas McGuane (who I've not read but read about), Jim
Harrison,
Edward Abbey, John Nichols, and Ivan Doig.
Any thoughts? Esp.
on
McGuane, Harrison, and Abbey.
------------------
Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@acs.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 16:29:16 -0400
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From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Poem I discovered this weekend
"....& I thought
that when you got older you could make
it up
to me, & clean the bathroom for me
once in a while."
Thanks Paul - perfect voice; I can
hear my voice overlaid on my
mother's!
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky
and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 17:42:14 -0400
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Mamma said there'd be days like this...
>
>Copyright(c)1996
by Hal Sirowitz
>
>
If I
remember correctly (which I very well might not), I _think_ this poet
was at
Hiram College my freshman year in honor of our first poetry slam....
I'm
67.84% sure he was the one...what I do remember correctly is that the
B-Side
(our student-run coffee shop where the slam was held) was
_incredibly_
crowded that night, I was sitting in the middle of the floor,
surrounded
by people I hardly knew (only as a freshman at Hiram can this
happen
:). Kat Snider Blackbird was the other
visiting poet helping us out
with
this indenture, & the male visiting poet kept reading these "Mother
Said"
poems which had us all cracking up...Sirowitz's been on MTV before,
hasn't
he?
Diane.
--
"This
is Beat. Live your lives out? Naw, _love_ your lives out!"
--Jack Kerouac
Diane
Marie Homza
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 15:24:52 -0400
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From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: who is your dad? and letter to
kerouac
At
04:32 PM 5/26/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi
>I'm
a lurker turning active now. I have a quick
question for phil who
>is
your dad is mentioned in any of Kerouac's books or any such thing?
>It
seems that a lot of people here have known each other for years
>through
families even. I never met any of the
beats but I was going to
>try
to meet Ginsburg and as luck has it the year I'm moving back to New
>York
he dies.
Peter,
My father isn't in any of Kerouac's books because my father only got
to know
Jack in the last three or four years of his life. I have heard
through
Billy Koumantzelis (Jack's close friend) that Jack was writing a lot
during
his trip to NY to be on the William Buckley Show. Jack was with my
dad,
Billy and Tony Sampas so that stuff may turn up some day. They grew up
in the
same parts of town and with the same background (French Canadian
Catholic)
but they didn't meet until Tony Sampas introduced him at the
infamous
"Nicky's" bar around 1966. My dad's first words to Jack were,
"Always
glad to buy a starving author a drink." They became great friends
and I
venture to say some of the best times of my dad's life were the few
years
he spent with Jack. My dad is mentioned in several biographies though.
His
first name is Joe and the best compliment Jack ever paid him is when he
said he
was the second best driver he ever knew. Classy company. Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 15:12:56 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Ann Charters & James Stauffer
May
27, 1997
Yesterday James Stauffer wrote:
"In his [Gerry Nicosia's] last
backchannel to me he was explaining
how
essentially he is responsible for everything Ann Charters knows about
Jack. She speaks respectfully of him, he can't
mention her without
remembering
that she didn't take his side with Jan.
Maybe Jan was an angel,
or
maybe she was hard to deal with--I don't know, but it seems to me that
Ann's
failure to join Jan's cause doesn't just wipe out her biographical and
editing
achievements."
Methinks Mr. Stauffer doth protest too
much.
While he always complains about the sound and fury of the
estate
battle,
he here throws more gasoline on the fire.
That is not what I said to him in my
backchannel.
AND YES, FOLKS, I'M KEEPING MY WORD
ABOUT NO MORE ESTATE FIGHT
POSTINGS,
BUT THIS REGARDS A SERIOUS MISQUOTE, AND IT NEEDS ANSWERING.
After all, Ann Charters probably
subscribes to the Beat-List Digest,
which
is sent free to all friends of John Sampas.
(That's a joke.)
In reality, she may well end up reading
some of the things that are
written/said
here.
Mr. Stauffer sent me a very leading
and provocative question, in
fact a
kind of taunt:
Why, he asked, didn't you quote more
from Ann Charters in your
biography
of Kerouac MEMORY BABE, since Ann is the preeminent Kerouac scholar?
I backchanneled him because I really
don't want to print critical
things
here about Ann, or about anyone. Ann,
incidentally, often disses me
with
the best of them. In the last interview
of hers I read in the LONDON
TELEGRAPH,
she refers to "Gerald Nicosia ... that tiresome wannabe."
Anyway, now I'll have to print my
backchannel to James publicly,
since,
while hardly flattering of Ann, it is nowhere near as dismissive of
her as
he makes out.
The point I was trying to make to him
is that, when I began my
biography
of Kerouac in 1977, Ann was not the world-renowned Kerouac
authority
she is now. Rather than rehash Ann's
biography, I preferred to
learn
about Kerouac by going on the road, 50,000 miles worth, and
interviewing
350 people who knew him, as well as reading through thousands
of
pages of Beat archives in about a dozen libraries.
I was also trying to make the point
that since 1977 I have lived in
Beat
communities of writers, have gone to 100's of poetry readings, given
readings
of my own poetry with many Beat poets such as Bob Kaufman, David
Meltzer,
and Harold Norse, and staged dozens of readings for others. I
number
at least two dozen Beat writers as close friends, and I doubt Ann can
claim
that--and I don't mean "friend" as someone she sees at an occasional
Beat
conference or writes to for a contribution to an anthology. I mean
people
who come to my home regularly, spill wine in and on my piano, piss
off my
wife, etc.
I never publicly claimed to have
taught Ann anything about Kerouac,
though
I suspect she learned a few things from MEMORY BABE. She quoted from
MEMORY
BABE, in fact, when she spoke at the Rencontre Internationale Jack
Kerouac
in Quebec City in 1987. And she
referred to it as "the most factual
account
of Kerouac's life" in THE BEAT READER.
Before she began calling me
a
"tiresome wannabe," she even wrote a blurb for MEMORY BABE that went
"Gerald
Nicosia's dedicated scholarship in MEMORY BABE has added important
new
material that significantly expands our knowledge of Kerouac and his
literary
achievement."
Do I wish she'd go away as a Kerouac
scholar? No. I just wish
she'd
stop acting as if I should go away.
Herewith my backchannel to Mr.
Stauffer (the part responding to his
question
about why there is not more reference to Ann Charter's work in
MEMORY
BABE):
"You must remember that when I
started MEMORY BABE in 1977, Ann's
was not
the "best known" Kerouac biography, it was the ONLY Kerouac
biography. As such, it was very thin--she had
interviewed 20
people--whereas
I went out and interviewed 350 people.
My knowledge of
Kerouac's
life became encyclopedic and far more thorough than Ann's. To
this
day, she can't tell Janine Pommy Vega from Joanna McClure--at the San
Francisco
Book Fair, last November, when WOMEN OF THE BEAT GENERATION was
being
promoted with a big panel (Ann was the moderator), Ann misintroduced
Joanna
McClure, Michael's wife and a well-known poet herself, as Janine
Pommy
Vega.
I have lived, hung out with, written
and read my own poetry among
the
Beats for the last 20 years, and I hardly felt there was much Ann could
clue me
in on about the Beat world--she who has spent most of her life in
academia.
Her editing, which has brought her
such a big name, only began in
the
late 1980's, and then took off like a rocket when Sampas offered her
dozens
of projects. In 1977, she was not known
as a Beat editor at all."
--Ge
rald
Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 00:10:26 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Arno Selhorst
<catweasel@USA.NET>
Subject: More substantial talk less name-calling.
Comments:
To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.bitnet@IBM.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Hey out
there!
Now,
since August 1995 I am a more or less quiet participant of our list
here. I
was always suprised by the cautious and friendly manner in which all
of you
held your comments about all kinds of Beat related topics. But now,
alas,
this spirit got quite spoiled.
BUT!
Then
there are also new members to our community here like Maya Gorton who
just
signed on! They might be the next talk-a-lots here. And they are the
ones I
put all my hopes into, because they weren't here when the sh.. hit
the
fan.
Welcome
Maya!
Talking
about Burroughs` Infiltration Theory one can come up with the most
horrible
visions of the world we live in today. Wired ran an article on
Information
Warfare in it's latest issue. In this article the author claimed
that to
conquer a country in this time you will first have to infiltrate
this
country with precise misinformation to melt down their own social
bounds
within their society (sounds a lot like Burroughs talking here). Just
tell
them that their entire country will go down the drain and chaos might
start
to fire up. "Those whom the I-War Gods destroy, they first make mad."
(Wired
p.228 May `97).
I start
to worry about Burroughs next visions about society...
Take
care everyone
and
stop the name calling in favour for some constructive beat discussion.
Yours
Arno Selhorst
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 20:47:48 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: who are we?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.ULT.3.96.970527102829.29914A-100000@xx.acs.appstate.e
du>
WHO,
WHO,
are we?
i think
is a bit
wrong to leave the list
'cuz the amount
of posts
first u
must have
an ethical way of life
to justify yr
decision
this
american gothic saga
'bout the estate
is sad awright
but the
rude men
are also
in a
little cest
i think
as
a
poster to the list
as
a
spontanenous writer
as
thinking
machine
yrs
rinaldo
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 22:08:55 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: WHO, are
WHO,
WHO,
are we?
i think
is a bit
wrong to leave the list
'cuz the amount
of posts
this
american gothic saga
'bout the estate
is sad awright
but
the rude men
are also
in a
little chest
yrs
rinaldo
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 22:08:40 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: WHO,
WHO,
WHO,
are we?
i think
is a bit
wrong to leave the list
'cuz the amount
of posts
i think
as
a
poster to the list
as
a
spontaneous writer
as
a
thinking machine
yrs
rinaldo
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 17:23:35 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Beats out West
Alex,
Consider reading Gretel Ehrlich's
"The Solace of Open Spaces" and "A
Match
to the Heart" (1994). Both great books and great western writing.
Edward
Abbey is a complete treat; particularly enjoyed "Desert Solitaire".
And listen to James McMurtry's music
(Larry's son!) while your reading.
The latest John McPhee reader has a
fine essay about brand
inspectors
and rustling in Nevada.
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky
and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 15:43:09 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Contest
"Is the accuser always holy
now? Were they born this morning as
clean
as God's fingers?"
An autographed copy of MEMORY BABE
will be sent to the first person
to
correctly identify the source of this quote, both author and work.
One-part
answers do not qualify.
Contest open to all except relatives
and employees of Gerald Nicosia.
Those who already own an autographed
copy of MEMORY BABE are asked
not to
submit entries. Coaching friends is
acceptable.
Winner will be notified by email.
--
Gerald
Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 18:45:55 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Desolation Peak
My wife
and I are thinking of making a trip to Washington State and may take
some
time to hike up Desolation Trail to Desolation Peak. There's a terrific
8 page
article complete with photo's by John Suiter in the March 1997 edition
of
Shambhala Sun.
Has
anyone on the list ever done this? I'm
curious as to details. How long
did it
take you, how much time did you spend, where did you stay, etc.
An
interesting point in the article is Suiter notes of all the fire lookouts
that
were in use over the years, only two remain today - Jack's on Desolation
Peak
and the one on Sourdough Mountain occupied by Gary Snyder and Philip
Whalen. Supposedly all the rest are gone - replaced
by aircraft overflights.
Please
send details if you have any.
Jerry
Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 18:47:24 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: who is your dad? and letter to
kerouac
woa. I saw Ginsberg read some poetry
@Realityfest, this thing they had when
i went
to Columbia. This guy sitting next to
me puked on the floor but other
than
that it was a pleasant experience, from the fragmented images i remember
from
it.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 18:50:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: who is your dad? and letter to
kerouac
Phil
Chaput said:
"The
best compliment Jack ever paid him is when he said he was the second
best
driver he ever knew."
And I
wonder who the first best driver was? ;^>
Hey,
Phil, did you say earlier Joe was one of Jack's pallbearers? Tell us
about
that if there's a story there.
Jerry
Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 18:55:28 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: west <anwest@UP.NET>
Subject: A quickie question
alright,
I'm new here and basically new to Beat so this may be a stupid
question,
but I was reading the portable Beat reader and an excerpt from
junk
had a character named Jack that killed somebody with a pipe and a
faucet.
Is that Mr. Kerouac?
west
I
belong to the blank generation
and I
can take or leave it each time
-Richard
Hell
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 18:12:18 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Guidelines for Discourse
Over
the past month or so, beat-l listmembers have been subjected to a
barrage
of querulous and acrimonius posts concerning the Jack Kerouac
Estate
and Gerry Nicosia's archive. Some of
these posts have even
degenerated
into name calling and accusations of unethical or even
illegal
activities. As a result of the
tonethese posts have taken,
several
lismembers have unsubscribed and others are threatening to do
so. Lawsuits have also been threatened. For the health of the list and
for the
protection of the rights of all listmembers, I am establing the
following
guidelines for discussion of Beat-l: 1)
Copyrighted material
should
not be posted to the list without permission (fair use rules
applying)
nor should private correspondence be posted without permission
from
the author; 2) Listmembers will not accuse each other of various
crimes
and misdemeanors on the Beat-l list (What you do privately is
your
own business.); 3) Listmembers will refrain from flames, character
attacks,
and personal insults in their posts to Beat-l (Again if you
feel
compelled to such measures please email your adversary directly.)
Those
who violate these rules will be subject to having their posts
blockedfrom
the list. If some of you find such
prescriptive guidelines
objectionable,
I assure you I found it even more objectionable to have
to
propose them. I am doing my best to
save this list and welcome your
suggestions
either on the list or privately.
William Gargan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 19:09:54 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Guidelines
Please
excuse the typos in my last posting.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 16:18:32 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Guidelines for Discourse
At
06:12 PM 5/27/97 EDT, you wrote:
>Over
the past month or so, beat-l listmembers have been subjected to a
>barrage
of querulous and acrimonius posts concerning the Jack Kerouac
>Estate
and Gerry Nicosia's archive. Some of
these posts have even
>degenerated
into name calling and accusations of unethical or even
>illegal
activities. As a result of the
tonethese posts have taken,
>several
lismembers have unsubscribed and others are threatening to do
>so. Lawsuits have also been threatened. For the health of the list and
>for
the protection of the rights of all listmembers, I am establing the
>following
guidelines for discussion of Beat-l: 1)
Copyrighted material
>should
not be posted to the list without permission (fair use rules
>applying)
nor should private correspondence be posted without permission
>from
the author; 2) Listmembers will not accuse each other of various
>crimes
and misdemeanors on the Beat-l list (What you do privately is
>your
own business.); 3) Listmembers will refrain from flames, character
>attacks,
and personal insults in their posts to Beat-l (Again if you
>feel
compelled to such measures please email your adversary directly.)
>Those
who violate these rules will be subject to having their posts
>blockedfrom
the list. If some of you find such
prescriptive guidelines
>objectionable,
I assure you I found it even more objectionable to have
>to
propose them. I am doing my best to
save this list and welcome your
>suggestions
either on the list or privately.
William Gargan
>
>
Amen.
-- Gerald Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 19:23:03 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MORE OXY THAN MORON
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: SAMPAS WHO? Re: a calm request
Smart
went crazy.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 19:32:23 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MORE OXY THAN MORON
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: SIGNOFF BEAT-L
I first
met Dean not long after BEAT-L and I split up. I had just gotten over a
serious
estate battle that I won't bother to talk about, except that it had
something
to do with the miserably weary split-up feeling that the list was
dead...
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 16:44:58 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Some Old Guy
I'm
water falling
down a
sidewalk
through
some tunnel
thinking
about my hanging
hang
over
when
this old guy
with a
cane and a cap
that
red
miserable
old bastard
passed
me by
with
words
to the
effect
it's
slippery out here son
and
some slippery light
fleetingly
filled the tunnel
to
illuminate the shephard
and I
felt like sheep
keep
sliding.
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 19:03:20 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Mitchell
<mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats out West
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.ULT.3.96.970527173104.14181B-100000@xx.acs.appstate.edu>
IM HO
HO HO, McGuane is Key West literary conch fritters, now Montana
cowboy
blues--parallel elf-proclaimed outlaw writer like Willy Nelson, but
not
really Beat (which is peculiarly caf=E9 Fran=E7ais in some ways), all dr=
ugs
and
refried beans, no Zen and green tea, no Doc Benway really, more
Parrothead
than Deadhead, more Margaritaville than North Beach & Greenwich
Village,
more island in the sun than road on the go, more Kesian than
Kerouacian,
but I'd be interested in what you say anyway.
(My favorite
McGuane
thing is an essay, "The Longest Silence," his permit fish story,
where he's
not such a nouveau metaphor freak.) // John M.
>This
summer I'm doing an independent study on 20th Century Western
>American
Lit, and as my specialty is the beats; I see a lot of connections
>between
the ideals expressed by the beats and those expressed by the
>writers
I'm reading. Aside from political
concerns such as environment
>and
rejection of an outside, displaced authority; there's that idea of
>personal,
inner freedom as well as the idea of man as a supreme being in
>an
individual universe which I think Kerouac expressed a lot through his
>singular
narrative skills. I'm making my way
through Zane Grey for back
>ground
then into Thomas McGuane (who I've not read but read about), Jim
>Harrison,
Edward Abbey, John Nichols, and Ivan Doig.
Any thoughts? Esp.
>on
McGuane, Harrison, and Abbey.
>
>------------------
>Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
>kh14586@acs.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
>http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 20:07:38 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
I Used
to Remember Heaven
Purpose
with a feeling, Feeling with a purpose.
One of
those is right, and yesterday I could remember;
The
shadows on the wall, that Socrates saw,
The
quantum dream, we ARE each other's dream,
Not
just in them. Dream me, I dream you, watcha gonna do?
No, I
clearly remember that I used to know so much more
Than I
know now. My six year old daughter
says,
Daddy
will you tell me about God, I seem to be
Forgetting
her now, I used to remember heaven.
Oh yes,
and so did I Sarah, so did I.
Draft
No.1
May 27,
1997
R.
Bentz Kirby
Columbia,
SC 8:04P.M.
God
bless this list and my children,
Peace,
I ain't
signing off, but I am gonna beat a gone world.
--------------------------------------------------------
Name:
R. Bentz Kirby
E-mail:
R. Bentz Kirby <bocelts@scsn.net>
Date:
05/27/97
Time:
19:59:40
This
message was sent by Z-Mail Pro - from NetManage
NetManage
- delivers Standards Based IntraNet Solutions
--------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 20:12:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bruce Hartman
<bwhartmanjr@INAME.COM>
Marie,
Do you have any idea when Leon will be
rejoining us?
Thanks,
Bruce
--------------------------
bwhartmanjr@iname.com
http://www.geocities.com/~tranestation
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 20:17:41 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: SIGNOFF BEAT-L
In-Reply-To: <009B4E5D.2A677520.9@kenyon.edu>
On Tue,
27 May 1997, MORE OXY THAN MORON wrote:
> I
first met Dean not long after BEAT-L and I split up. I had just gotten over
a
>
serious estate battle that I won't bother to talk about, except that it had
>
something to do with the miserably weary split-up feeling that the list was
>
dead...
Doesn't
Jack in this intro sound much like Salinger, beginning of _Catcher
in the
Rye_? Now has this been mentioned before, or am I imagining a
discussion
that never was?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 17:22:33 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: setting record straight
May 27, 1997
Yesterday
James Stauffer wrote:
"My recollection is that Gerry
Nicosia brought this fight to this list."
No,
James. Joe Grant started some posts
here back in April. I did not tell
him to
do this, nor did I know he was doing it.
Joe then emailed me and
told me
that, in response to his posts, Mr. Anstee and Mr. Chaput were
saying
some rather scathing things about me.
Hearing that--especially after having
helped Rod Anstee with his
Kerouac
projects for 13 years--made me decide to jump on here and tell my
own
side of the story.
The next thing I knew I was being
charged with everything from
attacking
the Lowell Kerouac Committee to selling stolen goods.
Just setting the record straight. Not flaming.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 20:38:09 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: spontaneous sidewalk re-worked.
In a
message dated 97-05-26 23:23:50 EDT, you write:
<<
Tomorrow, Tuesday, let's have
everyone on the list post one poem, story, or
idea about beat literature. >>
Beat-L:
I don't
write, just edit, but a friend handed me this poem yesterday. I
thought
it fit.
Pam Plymell
not
finding your stone
under
wet, long, half-dim grass
my hand
drops
lilac
for
allen ginsberg,
who is
not buried in cherry valley
F. Bjornson
Stock
Memorial Day
1997
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 17:42:54 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Lowell author-Jay Pendergast
At
06:49 AM 5/26/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In
a message dated 97-05-26 00:01:30 EDT, you write:
>
>>
May 25,1997
>> Lowell author and friend of Jack Kerouac,
Jay Pendergast died unexpectedly
>> this afternoon. Jay had just written a story
about Jack in Paul Maher's
>> premiere issue of the "Kerouac
Quarterly" his painting that Jack had given
>> him personally what I called "Beatnik
Jesus" was on the cover. He was an
>> educator that taught English, Irish and
American Literature as well as
>> History, Writing and Anthropology courses.
May 27, 1997
I taped a long interview with Jay
Pendergast on his escapades with
Kerouac. This is one of the 300 tapes currently under
seal, and
deteriorating
for lack of proper care, at U Mass, Lowell.
Alas.
-- Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 20:38:10 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dirk Vulgate <BIGDUCK2@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Thugs
In a
message dated 97-05-27 12:11:33 EDT, you write:
<< I hope the past week has been
instructive to you all.
We have seen the three chief
representatives of Mr. Sampas's point
of view--Phil Chaput, Rod Anstee, and Paul
Maher--employ the tactics of
thugs.
I do not know whether any of these
three has been hired by Mr.
Sampas to
Yours for the truth, Gerald Nicosia
>>
You are the biggest hypocrite I've ever
listened to rant bullshit
anywhere.
You are truly a sick person, Nicosia.
You have misled people here with your
particular style of exaggaration
and
lies. You have set back the cause of the preservation of Jack's works
irreparably.
You have bullied your way around the BeatList, just as you've
bullied
your way into every event where people had the audacity not to invite
you.
No one owes you anything, Nicosia. For
that matter, until the
"fraudulent
will" is proven (and I for one believe it is a forgery), John
Sampas
doesn't owe anyone anything either. People who own and collect
Kerouac's
papers, whether they're named Johnny Depp or Rod Anstee, also owe
you
nothing, nor do they owe anything to the world. No one in this entire
battle
is doing anything illegal - no one!
Even John Sampas, who obviously cares
nothing for Kerouac's work and is
only
trying to wring as many dollars out of DeadJack as he can is not a
criminal
- at least, it hasn't been proven yet that he is. He demonstrated
his bad
taste with the pathetic San Francisco Blues, his gigantic ego with
all his
constant credit lines stamped on everything having anything to do
with
Kerouac, and his lack of a clue with the choices of artists and
insulting
performances on the putrid "kicks joy darkness" "tribute"
CD. He
disgusts
me, but you make me angry, because you've insinuated yourself into
the
forefront of this issue, pushing everyone else out of the picture.
Look at the people you've alienated and
hurt while constantly invoking
so-called
Christian ethics and always signing off with the bitterly
sarcastic,
phony, Nixon-plastic "Best, Gerry Nicosia." These people,
including
Levi, Attila, Rod and Phil are all human beings--good human beings,
and
they all have one thing in common: They once were your allies, and now
they
are not.
But they're all too good to be your
enemies. They know better. They
don't
play your game of dividing people up into "All-Evil" or
"All-Holy"
camps.
These men, and the trail of bodies you've left behind you in your life
pulling
the same stunts with former friends, they all know that life is not
black
and white. They can find gray areas. That's where most of us live our
lives
every day.
No one wants to work with you. No one
wants to see you gain "control" of
Kerouac's
archives. What "manifest destiny" has your fevered brain dreamed up
to make
you believe it's okay to stampede over American literature and worry
about
the consequences later? Your rampant ego and gigantic clay feet take up
all the
room there is for rational discourse. I hope you fall on your own
sword,
I really do.
I'm sorry that by writing this letter
there will be a new flame war on
the
list. But someone had to stand up and say we are ALL human here. Nicosia
is not
a god; he's not even an unflawed authority on Kerouac. No one is.
If anyone here did some research into the
history of Nicosia's
relationships
with Anstee, Charters, Kovic and others he's mentioned in his
vomit
of posts, you would understand that all his protests are simply a
Wizard
of Oz curtain to keep people from seeing the wreckage of his own past.
I issue these opinions under my right to free
speech, without cursing or
lying.
I will not post again on this issue no matter what the response is
because
this is all I want to say. Anyone who wants to comment directly to me
is
welcome. But I'm not going to clog up the list with defenses of my
position
or futile arguments.
This I vow, D. Vulgate, 5-27-97
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 20:50:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Guidelines for Discourse-Sad day for
beat-l
At
06:12 PM 5/27/97 EDT, you wrote:
>Over
the past month or so, beat-l listmembers have been subjected to a
>barrage
of querulous and acrimonius posts concerning the Jack Kerouac
>Estate
and Gerry Nicosia's archive. Some of
these posts have even
>degenerated
into name calling and accusations of unethical or even
>illegal
activities. As a result of the
tonethese posts have taken,
>several
lismembers have unsubscribed and others are threatening to do
>so. Lawsuits have also been threatened. For the health of the list and
>for
the protection of the rights of all listmembers, I am establing the
>following
guidelines for discussion of Beat-l: 1)
Copyrighted material
>should
not be posted to the list without permission (fair use rules
>applying)
nor should private correspondence be posted without permission
>from
the author; 2) Listmembers will not accuse each other of various
>crimes
and misdemeanors on the Beat-l list (What you do privately is
>your
own business.); 3) Listmembers will refrain from flames, character
>attacks,
and personal insults in their posts to Beat-l (Again if you
>feel
compelled to such measures please email your adversary directly.)
>Those
who violate these rules will be subject to having their posts
>blockedfrom
the list. If some of you find such
prescriptive guidelines
>objectionable,
I assure you I found it even more objectionable to have
>to
propose them. I am doing my best to
save this list and welcome your
>suggestions
either on the list or privately.
William Gargan
>
>This
is really a shame that it had to come to this. I want you to realize
Bill
that I stopped all the bullshit after you POLITELY asked about it over
five
days ago and I have been bombarded with insults since that time and
have
even been called a coward (a new one for me). I still remained silent.
Please
feel free to go over my posts since that time so you can understand
that I
had no part in this since you and several others POLITELY asked all
involved
to cool it and I said I would out of respect to the listmembers. I
had one
post denying that I had ever called Gerry a thief and in return for
that
denial I received a threat from Gerry that he would sue me. I can
understand
that if someone threatens to sue the beat-l (namely Nicosia) you
have to
take some kind of action but I feel that Jack and Allen would roll
over in
their graves if they knew the beat list was now CENSORED. It is a
sad day
indeed and I myself am considering signing off. I will see you folks
in
Nashua when I pay my final respects to Jan Kerouac.
Phil
Chaput
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:04:56 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MORE OXY THAN MORON
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Guidelines for Discourse-Sad day for
beat-l
Bad
list members must stand in the cyber corner!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:03:35 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: no you don't
Phil:
You
can't sign off until we see whether you got a basketball game or
not. "Chink" (hitting nothing but chain
here).
I am
only 43, so I figure, I got an advantage here somewhere!!
:-)
Peace,
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:01:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Thugs
In-Reply-To:
<970527203743_156389426@emout18.mail.aol.com>
On Tue,
27 May 1997, Dirk Vulgate wrote:
> He
demonstrated
>
his bad taste with the pathetic San Francisco Blues, his gigantic ego with
>
all his constant credit lines stamped on everything having anything to do
>
with Kerouac, and his lack of a clue with the choices of artists and
>
insulting performances on the putrid "kicks joy darkness"
"tribute" CD.
Okay.
What's "San Francisco Blues"? As for jkd, which performances did you
think
were insulting (besides the Aerosmith guy)?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:07:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: Beat list
BEAT-L
There
ain't no bodies to hide,
There
ain't no blood to wipe,
Nothing
but reputation,
And
that won't matter in 100 years.
BEAT-L,
the rumors of your death
Are not
true,
The
rumors of your suicide are lies,
The
rumors of your demise are all lies.
In my
eyes, the BEAT is BEAT,
And
when it BEATS, its heart,
Can
drown it all in an immense
Jug of
wine, not whine, that
We all
must drink and it becomes
Our
blood at last.
Do not
leave, if you do, you will miss it!!
BEAT go
on, BEAT go on.
Bentz
Kirby
May 27,
1997 9:07 PM
Columbia,
SC
Peace,
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:10:11 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tipper Quigg <quigg@INFORAMP.NET>
Subject: is this about the Beats???
I literally signed on to this list
tonight, in hopes that I can find
some
people to discuss my favorite authors..But instead I get all this flame
war
stuff, out of the 7 post I recieved 6 of them were about legal
battles...I
was just wondering, is some legal page?
is there one that has
to do
with the writing? Is this flaming just
a rare occurance or is this
pretty
common because as much as I love Kerouac and Burroughs, I don't think
I can
sit through this stuff...Maybe I'm over reacting but I've since this
kinda
stuff on other lists...Please say there are people out there who will
talk to
me...
help
the economy...buy a Neil Young album...
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:10:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Guidelines for Discourse
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%97052718584517@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
thanks,
bill.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:11:03 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
In-Reply-To: <199705280012.UAA11057@everest>
>Marie,
>
> Do you have any idea when Leon will be
rejoining us?
_________
hey
there bruce: he'll be gone for two (or more?) weeks, had plans to hook
up
service and post to us, wasn't sure.
all is
well,
knowing
leon, he's having a hell of a good time.
mc
z
z
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 18:13:57 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Thugs
...
you've insinuated yourself into
>the
forefront of this issue, pushing everyone else out of the picture....
> I'm sorry that by writing this letter
there will be a new flame war on
>the
list....
> This I vow, D. Vulgate, 5-27-97
>
Dear
Mr. Vulgate:
I certainly had a right to post
"Thugs," after having been the only
person
on this Beat-List to be accused of crimes (and don't say I accused
John
Sampas of actual crimes unless you can go back and find an actual
posting,
please--no more misquotes and rumors).
I was the only person on
this
list to have my privacy and my copyright in unpublished, personal
correspondence
infringed upon.
Happy I would have been had Jan
Kerouac lived to take her case to
trial
by herself. This thing has taken up too
much of my time, energy,
emotion,
and money, and I wish somebody else was in a position to carry on
Jan's
fight. But as her literary executor,
she put the torch in my hand,
and I'm
doing my best to carry it for her. Yes,
it's taken a heavy toll on
my
life, and put a lot of strain on our household, but my life is not a
"wreckage"
by any means.
And, listen, good sir, Mr. Gargan has
asked people to stop using
emotional
words, such as your letter is full of: "stunts," "rampant
ego,"
"gigantic
clay feet," "sarcastic," "phony,"
"Nixon-phony," "bully," "trail
of
bodies," "play your game," "stampede over,"
"Wizard of Oz curtain," etc. etc.
I used to teach rhetoric, good sir,
and your letter is a virtual
textbook
of what they used to call "appeal to emotion." So please stop
conning
us and saying you don't want to create a new flame war.
What, are you upset that Nicosia has
stopped taking the bait?
No, sir, I'm not going to flame at
you. If that disappoints you,
I'm
sorry.
I'm only going to ask you to observe
the guidelines which good Mr.
Gargan
has wisely set down.
Best always (and I mean it), Gerry
Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:58:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Why We Shouldn't Study Kerouac
In a
message dated 97-05-26 18:59:32 EDT, you write:
<<
Anstee already purchased major items from the Kerouac Archive for
his private collection, which have gone up
tremendously in value >>
Gerry:
Please
let us know what major items Rod Anstee purchased from Mr. Sampas?
Thanks
-
JW
WRB
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:53:14 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: "Purchased" versus
"Donated"
In a
message dated 97-05-26 18:23:37 EDT, you write:
<< In fact, I did not like the idea of selling
the archive to Weinberg,
since he would give me no guarantee about
keeping the archive together, >>
Gerry:
I do
not believe that negotiations that we have had about the sale of your
archive
is the business of the Beat-L. It is my business and your business
only.
If you want to discuss my business in any open forum like the Beat-L ,
please
ask me first.
I will
clarify one point, however, in reference to your statement quoted
above.
I made
the decision not to purchase your archive because in my opinion at the
time,
your asking price was simply too high. You never refused to sell me
your archive
because I would not guarantee to keep it together. If I had
agreed
to your asking price, you would have gladly cashed my check....
Of
course, I know that Rod was the person who first brought this matter up to
this
forum when he quoted from your letter
to him....Yes - Rod is a very
good
friend of mine but I do not think he should have quoted from your
private
correspondence....
JW
WRB
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:42:49 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: how annoying some of these whiny people are!
Who
gives a rat's ass about your stupid opinions? no one wants to read a
whole
e-mail of just you whining about and insulting Mr. Nicosia. Yes, I'm
talking
to you, but i deleted your message so fast i lost the address.
Anyway.
That is so boring and stupid. So
there. Have a SUPER day.
Can we
talk about something OTHER than Jack Kerouac now? PLEASE?? I think the
fact
that no one is fighting over Burroughs' stuff attests to his superiority
over
any of the other beats. Both as an
artist and as a person. At the risk
of
starting another argument, I will venture to say that I never did like
that
"on the road" crap anyway. (I
went to the festival in Lowell, Mass and
had a
great time but simply prefer burroughs) ok,
bye.........marioka7@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 18:26:18 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Guidelines for Discourse-Sad day for
beat-l
.... I
>had
one post denying that I had ever called Gerry a thief and in return for
>that
denial I received a threat from Gerry that he would sue me. I can
>understand
that if someone threatens to sue the beat-l (namely Nicosia) you
>have
to take some kind of action but I feel that Jack and Allen would roll
>over
in their graves if they knew the beat list was now CENSORED. It is a
>sad
day indeed and I myself am considering signing off. I will see you folks
>in
Nashua when I pay my final respects to Jan Kerouac.
>Phil
Chaput
>
C'mon,
Phil: May 27, 1997
I never said you called me a thief, I
said you accused me of
breaking
the law in selling Kerouac xeroxes to Lowell, but you never
produced
the statute that made this a crime. To
accuse someone of a crime
falsely
is libel. Since when is it censorship
for Mr. Gargan to ask people
to
desist from libel? The fact that libel
is a criminal act is the law of
the
land, Phil, not Mr. Gargan's whimsy.
And he's also asking people to
stop
breaking the law by publishing my private correspondence here.
You want a license to break the
law? Fine, go somewhere else. We
don't
need any lawbreakers here.
Actually I think Jack already rolled
over in his grave when his
volume
of SELECTED LETTERS was censored.
And it's curious you and Mr. Sampas
got invited to Jan's funeral,
when I
didn't. How much time did you guys
spend with her in those last
five,
hard, 4-dialyis-a-day years? Did you
ever watch her do a dialysis, Phil?
Just wondering. I did.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:15:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: Re: Guidelines for Discourse-Sad day for
beat-l
MORE
OXY THAN MORON wrote:
>
Bad list members must stand in the cyber corner!
ROTFLMAO, and please, I didn't mean it, it
was my evil twin, George
Bush.
Hell, I
wasn't even on the grassy knoll, I was up in this damn book
building. Shit all these damn bullet casings came flying by the
window,
and I coulda sworn to a God if there was one that Oliver Stone
was
there, but, it could a been PeeWee Herman, there were some stains on
em. Anyway, I saw it all with my out of body
self. It was on an astral
projection
from my 6th Grade English class in Easley SC.
I'm still
pissed
that they called off the trip to the county courthouse to see the
Indian
arrowheads. But shit man, I was
punished. I got stung by 5
yellow
jackets when God and my mother saw me out playing instead of
watching
the Jack Kennedy funeral, so I will stand in the cyber corner
rather
than have to deal with those yellow jackets again.
Oh
yeah, Pretty Boy Floyd wasn't there either.
It was
not beat.
HA, HA,
HA , HA,
I am
not paranoid either, I just hate corners!
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 22:21:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Rod Is Off Base!
In a
message dated 97-05-26 23:17:24 EDT, you write:
<< You
are a very low human being indeed. I won't ever trust another word you say.
This is dispicable! >>
Hey,
Jerry C:
I for
one am now fed up with the personal attacks against Rod or anyone on
this
list. It's one thing to disagree - it's another thing for a grown man to
start
with this bullshit.
Do what
Webmaster Bill Gargan asked you to do - take it outside and make it
private.
You are
ruining the community spirit we ahave all tried to build up the last
few
years.
Go
start your own list about the archive controversy.
People
who were once active on this list are now afraid to post anything
here.
They
don't realize that the barks of the big boys are in reality just
whimpers...
Alot of
fine folks feel intimidated by your remarks and Gerry's and Jo
Grant's
and Rod's remarks....
Let's
get back to why this list was formed by Bill Gargan through the
cooperation
of Brooklyn College -
To
promote lively discussions about Beat literature and Beat writers.....
To call
someone you do not know a low human being is bad news....
Please
go away and take your insults with you....
Jeffrey
H. Weinberg
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 19:29:00 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Dirk Vulgate or Paul Maher?
May 27, 1997
To Bill
Gargan and the Good Folk on the Beat-L:
Just when we're trying to get things
down to a calm, civilized
dialogue
again, there appears a Mr. Dirk Vulgate, ranting and raving at a
fevered
emotional pitch.
DID ANYONE NOTICE THE UNCANNY
RESEMBLANCE OF THE NEWLY ARRIVED MR.
VULGATE'S
RHETORICAL STRUCTURES, PHRASING, AND VOCABULARY TO THAT OF THE
RECENTLY
DEPARTED PAUL MAHER?
Both Mr. Maher and Mr. Vulgate have a
way of screaming "I don't owe
you..."
"No one owes you..."
Both of them like to throw the words
"sick" and "hypocrite" around a
lot.
It's funny, but a lot of people don't
realize their language,
sentence
structure, etc., has a signature that is as recognizable to the
trained
eye as a person's handwriting.
Even more curious, this fellow
Vulgate, who hates me so much he
wants
me to "fall on my sword," tells me he "believes the will is a
forgery."
Is that so we will know for sure it
couldn't be Paul Maher, who has
made a
point of saying he knows the will is genuine?
Nothing he says in the rest of his
letter gibes with his belief that
the will
is a forgery.
So is the next step that we now have
impostors in silly masks
stepping
on to the stage to keep the flame war going?
Mr. Gargan, please put a quick end to
this.
The rules of civilized discourse now
apply, whether your name is
Paul
Maher, Dirk Vulgate, or Jimmy Poodlewhorfer (to plagiarize JK).
No one says you can't talk about the
estate fight. No one says you
can't
say you dislike Gerry Nicosia. Only
have a reason and a logical
explanation. Don't start throwing criminal accusations at
me (or anyone
else)
or attacking somebody's personal life.
If that's censorship, I think Jack
Kerouac would applaud it.
Jack, after all, changed names in his
novels and even descriptions
so as
not to hurt people's feelings.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 22:36:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: signoff
Dear
Beat-L Members:
Before
all 200+ of you sign off, please remember that Beat-L T-shirt list.
I ordered
enough shirts to cover that list and I certainly can't use 200
shirts
myself!
The
Beat-L T-shirt with artwork by S. Clay Wilson will be ready to ship in
approx.
2-3
weeks.
I kept
my part of the bargain by fronting the money to pay Wilson and to pay
for the
shirts to be printed up....Please keep your part of the bargain
also...
Thanks
-
Jeffrey
Weinberg
Beat-L
T-shirt Dept.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 19:43:19 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: SIGNOFF BEAT-L
MORE
OXY THAN MORON wrote:
>
> I
first met Dean not long after BEAT-L and I split up. I had just gotten over
a
>
serious estate battle that I won't bother to talk about, except that it had
>
something to do with the miserably weary split-up feeling that the list was
>
dead...
This
may be the best post on the JKEK (The Jack Kerouac Estate
Kontroversy). I found myself filled with nostalgia for the
Old Beat-L
today. 25-40 posts aday. Most on topics relevant to the list. No
legal
wars, not too much self-indulgent bullshit (well there was Ron
Whitehead,
but he was relatively entitled.) Maybe
I'll just sign off
and
read the archives. At least it won't
take two hours a day to go
through
even with nuking anything by some nameless folks.
J
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:35:50 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: how annoying some of these whiny
people are!
Maya
Gorton wrote:
>
>
Who gives a rat's ass about your stupid opinions? no one wants to read a
>
whole e-mail of just you whining about and insulting Mr. Nicosia. Yes, I'm
>
talking to you, but i deleted your message so fast i lost the address.
>
Anyway. That is so boring and stupid.
So there. Have a SUPER day.
>
Can we talk about something OTHER than Jack Kerouac now? PLEASE?? I think the
>
fact that no one is fighting over Burroughs' stuff attests to his superiority
>
over any of the other beats. Both as an
artist and as a person. At the risk
> of
starting another argument, I will venture to say that I never did like
>
that "on the road" crap anyway.
(I went to the festival in Lowell, Mass and
>
had a great time but simply prefer burroughs) ok,
>
bye.........marioka7@aol.com
hey i
am willing to fight over burroughs stuff the guy is till making
it.
I just
ordered my new tee shirt shot with holes.
I hope the guy with
holster
on hip, steel in hand and words strung like fire rides rides and
rides. I once was giving wsb a ride and was trying
to remember the
words
to frankie and johnnie and he knew all of them , the old jimmy
rodgers
version, did very well.
look at
www.exoticaa.com new stuff. and i like it and i am a woman, and
a beat,
yet i don't care if my wife appreciates or not because he is my
husband
and better just stick to his memorizing of numbers. heahha had
way too
much estate stuff, waytoomuch
p
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:39:06 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: signoff
Jeffrey
Weinberg wrote:
>
>
Dear Beat-L Members:
>
>
Before all 200+ of you sign off, please remember that Beat-L T-shirt list.
> I
ordered enough shirts to cover that list and I certainly can't use 200
>
shirts myself!
>
>
The Beat-L T-shirt with artwork by S. Clay Wilson will be ready to ship in
>
approx.
>
2-3 weeks.
>
> I
kept my part of the bargain by fronting the money to pay Wilson and to pay
>
for the shirts to be printed up....Please keep your part of the bargain
>
also...
>
>
Thanks -
>
>
Jeffrey Weinberg
>
Beat-L T-shirt Dept.
Can we
see it yet? i am so excited, hey rah
p
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 19:54:03 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Beats out West
Alex
Howard wrote:
I'm making my way through Zane Grey for back
>
ground then into Thomas McGuane (who I've not read but read about), Jim
>
Harrison, Edward Abbey, John Nichols, and Ivan Doig. Any thoughts? Esp.
> on
McGuane, Harrison, and Abbey.
A great
subject, fiction of the west and you have some good things to
work on
here. Mitchell has already replied on
McGuane. Harrison is my
favorite
of the group. Certainly not exclusively
a Western writer, like
McGuane,
lots of Key West and Upper Peninsula.
But his western stuff is
wonderful
for me. Not leading edge stylistically,
but very tight clean
writing. Dalva is a wonderful novel and one of the
richest female
figures
in a modern man's novel. Revenge and
and the other novella's
probably
my favorites tho. Very spare and
strong. Much better than the
movies
made from them which seem bloated.
Harrison is like a latter day
Hemingway. He writes beautifully about food, hunting
dogs, women and
drinking
and doping. Sort of like Hemingway
without the suicidal edge
and
less sentimental. His Michigan stuff does less for me but that may
be
because I have less feel for the country and people. Nichols is
marvelously
funny. Abbey is a little to
ecclesiastical for my taste.
Have
fun with this one
James
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 22:55:09 -0400
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: how annoying some of these whiny
people are!
Reply
to message from Marioka7@AOL.COM of Tue, 27 May
>Can
we talk about something OTHER than Jack Kerouac now? PLEASE?? I think the
>fact
that no one is fighting over Burroughs' stuff attests to his superiority
>over
any of the other beats. Both as an
artist and as a person. At the risk
Burroughs
is still kicking; wouldn't be as much fun talking about him! :)
Truthfully,
I've never had a chance (yet) to read anything by Burroughs,
but
when (if!) I ever finish _Go_, _Naked Lunch_ is next on my list.
Diane.
--
"This
is Beat. Live your lives out? Naw, _love_ your lives out!"
--Jack
Kerouac
Diane
Marie Homza
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 23:06:03 -0400
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: "we put the 'dis' in disfunctional!
:)"
Dear
Gerry (or anyone else who can help):
In a
post eons ago (well, probably only 2 days ago, but time gets warped
("let's
do the time warp again....) in CyberSpace) you mentioned a bunch of
never-been-published
Kerouac stuff. One title stuck out to me,
_
Visions
of Lucien_. Can you (or anyone) give me
any more info on this one,
what
it's about, when it was written, etc etc?
E-mail privately if you'd
like,
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
Thanks!
Diane.
(Was
Frank N. Furter Beat? Or did he just
bea...ah, never mind! ;)
--
"This
is Beat. Live your lives out? Naw, _love_ your lives out!"
--Jack
Kerouac
Diane
Marie Homza
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 23:28:08 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Paul Maher <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Dirk Vulgate or Paul Maher?
At
07:29 PM 5/27/97 -0700, you wrote:
> May 27, 1997
>To
Bill Gargan and the Good Folk on the Beat-L:
>
> Just when we're trying to get things
down to a calm, civilized
>dialogue
again, there appears a Mr. Dirk Vulgate, ranting and raving at a
>fevered
emotional pitch.
> DID ANYONE NOTICE THE UNCANNY
RESEMBLANCE OF THE NEWLY ARRIVED MR.
>VULGATE'S
RHETORICAL STRUCTURES, PHRASING, AND VOCABULARY TO THAT OF THE
>RECENTLY
DEPARTED PAUL MAHER?
> Both Mr. Maher and Mr. Vulgate have a
way of screaming "I don't owe
>you..."
"No one owes you..."
> Both of them like to throw the words
"sick" and "hypocrite" around a
>lot.
> It's funny, but a lot of people don't
realize their language,
>sentence
structure, etc., has a signature that is as recognizable to the
>trained
eye as a person's handwriting.
> Even more curious, this fellow
Vulgate, who hates me so much he
>wants
me to "fall on my sword," tells me he "believes the will is a
forgery."
> Is that so we will know for sure it
couldn't be Paul Maher, who has
>made
a point of saying he knows the will is genuine?
> Nothing he says in the rest of his
letter gibes with his belief that
>the
will is a forgery.
> So is the next step that we now have
impostors in silly masks
>stepping
on to the stage to keep the flame war going?
> Mr. Gargan, please put a quick end to
this.
> The rules of civilized discourse now
apply, whether your name is
>Paul
Maher, Dirk Vulgate, or Jimmy Poodlewhorfer (to plagiarize JK).
> No one says you can't talk about the
estate fight. No one says you
>can't
say you dislike Gerry Nicosia. Only
have a reason and a logical
>explanation. Don't start throwing criminal accusations at
me (or anyone
>else)
or attacking somebody's personal life.
> If that's censorship, I think Jack
Kerouac would applaud it.
> Jack, after all, changed names in his
novels and even descriptions
>so
as not to hurt people's feelings.
> Best always, Gerry Nicosia
>What's
your point Nicosia? if I am the author of something I will not hide
behind
a "mask"? I don't have "proof" the will is genuine no more
than you
do the
will is a forgery. I just think it is the real thing. I simply don't
see
what would be so "funny" about an invalid woman's (who has suffered a
stroke
and is elderly)signature. What is the basis in logic underlying your
conclusion?
Signed Paul, the
"convicted thief", or just call me
Lord
Jim or Raskolnikov...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 00:15:37 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: is this about the Beats???
Tipper
Quigg wrote:
>
> I literally signed on to this list
tonight, in hopes that I can find
>
some people to discuss my favorite authors..But instead I get all this flame
>
war stuff, out of the 7 post I recieved 6 of them were about legal
>
battles...I was just wondering, is some legal page? is there one that has
> to
do with the writing? Is this flaming
just a rare occurance or is this
>
pretty common because as much as I love Kerouac and Burroughs, I don't think
> I
can sit through this stuff...Maybe I'm over reacting but I've since this
>
kinda stuff on other lists...Please say there are people out there who will
>
talk to me...
>
>
help the economy...buy a Neil Young album...
Tipper,
Welcome. Just hang in there for a while and all the
nastiness will pass.
There are a lot of creative people here who
love literature. Deep down,
everyone
knows that the vision of the beats will not be lost in hassles
over
estate matters. Join in, pick a topic,
invite others to discuss it.
People will talk to you.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 00:34:51 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: how annoying some of these whiny
people are!
Maya
Gorton wrote:
>
>
Can we talk about something OTHER than Jack Kerouac now? PLEASE?? I think the
>
fact that no one is fighting over Burroughs' stuff attests to his superiority
>
over any of the other beats. Both as an
artist and as a person.
Whoa. I have to say that if we are talking about
the superority of the
one of
the beats, my vote is in there for Allen Ginsberg. He was by far
the
greatest poet of the twentieth century, and his voice affected the
whole
stratus of socity from politics to music.
He even tirelessly
promoted
the works of other beat writers. I must
admit, though, that
since
I've joined this list, I've come to see beauty in Kerouac's words
that I
never fully perceived before. I'm
rereading On the Road and I
just
bought Dr. Sax. I also was completely
taken by the oneness of the
universe
described in a poem someone posted last week, the name fails me
right
now but it was something about Golden Eternity. As for Burroughs,
I would
have to read a lot more to discuss his work in any detail, but I
think
it's great that you prefer him and there are many others here that
can
discuss him with you. Meanwhile, I'm
still keeping Ginsberg at the
top of
my list.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 20:52:34 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Thugs
D
vulgate,
get
real.
At
08:38 PM 5/27/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In
a message dated 97-05-27 12:11:33 EDT, you write:
>
><< I hope the past week has been
instructive to you all.
> We have seen the three chief
representatives of Mr. Sampas's point
> of
view--Phil Chaput, Rod Anstee, and Paul Maher--employ the tactics of
>thugs.
> I do not know whether any of these
three has been hired by Mr.
>
Sampas to
> Yours for the truth, Gerald Nicosia
> >>
>
> You are the biggest hypocrite I've ever
listened to rant bullshit
>anywhere.
You are truly a sick person, Nicosia.
> You have misled people here with your
particular style of exaggaration
>and
lies. You have set back the cause of the preservation of Jack's works
>irreparably.
You have bullied your way around the BeatList, just as you've
>bullied
your way into every event where people had the audacity not to invite
>you.
> No one owes you anything, Nicosia. For
that matter, until the
>"fraudulent
will" is proven (and I for one believe it is a forgery), John
>Sampas
doesn't owe anyone anything either. People who own and collect
>Kerouac's
papers, whether they're named Johnny Depp or Rod Anstee, also owe
>you
nothing, nor do they owe anything to the world. No one in this entire
>battle
is doing anything illegal - no one!
> Even John Sampas, who obviously cares nothing
for Kerouac's work and is
>only
trying to wring as many dollars out of DeadJack as he can is not a
>criminal
- at least, it hasn't been proven yet that he is. He demonstrated
>his
bad taste with the pathetic San Francisco Blues, his gigantic ego with
>all
his constant credit lines stamped on everything having anything to do
>with
Kerouac, and his lack of a clue with the choices of artists and
>insulting
performances on the putrid "kicks joy darkness" "tribute"
CD. He
>disgusts
me, but you make me angry, because you've insinuated yourself into
>the
forefront of this issue, pushing everyone else out of the picture.
> Look at the people you've alienated and
hurt while constantly invoking
>so-called
Christian ethics and always signing off with the bitterly
>sarcastic,
phony, Nixon-plastic "Best, Gerry Nicosia." These people,
>including
Levi, Attila, Rod and Phil are all human beings--good human beings,
>and
they all have one thing in common: They once were your allies, and now
>they
are not.
> But they're all too good to be your
enemies. They know better. They
>don't
play your game of dividing people up into "All-Evil" or
"All-Holy"
>camps.
These men, and the trail of bodies you've left behind you in your life
>pulling
the same stunts with former friends, they all know that life is not
>black
and white. They can find gray areas. That's where most of us live our
>lives
every day.
> No one wants to work with you. No one
wants to see you gain "control" of
>Kerouac's
archives. What "manifest destiny" has your fevered brain dreamed up
>to
make you believe it's okay to stampede over American literature and worry
>about
the consequences later? Your rampant ego and gigantic clay feet take up
>all
the room there is for rational discourse. I hope you fall on your own
>sword,
I really do.
> I'm sorry that by writing this letter
there will be a new flame war on
>the
list. But someone had to stand up and say we are ALL human here. Nicosia
>is
not a god; he's not even an unflawed authority on Kerouac. No one is.
> If anyone here did some research into the
history of Nicosia's
>relationships
with Anstee, Charters, Kovic and others he's mentioned in his
>vomit
of posts, you would understand that all his protests are simply a
>Wizard
of Oz curtain to keep people from seeing the wreckage of his own past.
> I issue these opinions under my right to
free speech, without cursing or
>lying.
I will not post again on this issue no matter what the response is
>because
this is all I want to say. Anyone who wants to comment directly to me
>is
welcome. But I'm not going to clog up the list with defenses of my
>position
or futile arguments.
> This I vow, D. Vulgate, 5-27-97
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 22:54:22 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: how annoying some of these whiny
people are!
Diane
Carter wrote:
>
>
Maya Gorton wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Can we talk about something OTHER than Jack Kerouac now? PLEASE?? I think
the
>
> fact that no one is fighting over Burroughs' stuff attests to his
superiority
>
> over any of the other beats. Both
as an artist and as a person.
>
>
Whoa. I have to say that if we are
talking about the superority of the
>
one of the beats, my vote is in there for Allen Ginsberg. He was by far
>
the greatest poet of the twentieth century, and his voice affected the
>
whole stratus of socity from politics to music. He even tirelessly
>
promoted the works of other beat writers.
I must admit, though, that
>
since I've joined this list, I've come to see beauty in Kerouac's words
>
that I never fully perceived before.
I'm rereading On the Road and I
>
just bought Dr. Sax. I also was
completely taken by the oneness of the
>
universe described in a poem someone posted last week, the name fails me
>
right now but it was something about Golden Eternity. As for Burroughs,
> I
would have to read a lot more to discuss his work in any detail, but I
>
think it's great that you prefer him and there are many others here that
>
can discuss him with you. Meanwhile,
I'm still keeping Ginsberg at the
>
top of my list.
>
> DC
my
votes, as if anyone cares, are as follows
tie for
first - burroughs and neal.
tie for
third - ginsberg and kerouac
fifth -
corso
tie for
sixth - everyone else.
it
seems to me from the little i've gathered so far that burroughs was
the
intellectual and anthropological force and neal was the motion and
go go
go behind everything else.
just my
wooden nickel
david
rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 00:04:11 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: Check out this link
I am
building my link beat page. Found this
site.
http://www.mindinmotion.com/kerouac/bums.html
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 01:07:46 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Dirk Vulgate or Paul Maher?
Gerald
Nicosia wrote:
>
> May 27, 1997
> To
Bill Gargan and the Good Folk on the Beat-L:
>
> Just when we're trying to get things
down to a calm, civilized
>
dialogue again, there appears a Mr. Dirk Vulgate, ranting and raving at a
>
fevered emotional pitch.
>
(snipped)
Gerry,
Haven't
you ever read something, and then thought, "Wow, that's so far
off
base it's not even worth the time it would take to respond to it?"
Just
let some stuff go by...I hate to change the sports analogies here
from
basketball to baseball, but if the ball is not even in the strike
zone,
let it go by without swinging.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:40:16 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: More wisdom from Lew Welch
from
"POSTGRADUATE COURSES"
LAW
He who
chooses for the chicken
gives
bounty for the Bob-Cat
Lew
Welch
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 23:34:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: is this about the Beats???
Tipper,
Any relation to Gore? Sorry, couldn't
resist. Please stick around.
There
is regularly lots of Beat scholarship as well as fascinating anecdotes
from
people who talked the talk adn walked the walk. I'm smarter by miles
having
been here now about ten months I think. The recent wars are we
believe
a temporary abberation soon to disappear......Welcome and tell us
why and
how you came.
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky
and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:51:34 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: "we put the 'dis' in disfunctional!
:)"
At
11:06 PM 5/27/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Dear
Gerry (or anyone else who can help):
>
>In
a post eons ago (well, probably only 2 days ago, but time gets warped
>("let's
do the time warp again....) in CyberSpace) you mentioned a bunch of
>never-been-published
Kerouac stuff. One title stuck out to
me, _
>Visions
of Lucien_. Can you (or anyone) give me
any more info on this one,
>what
it's about, when it was written, etc etc?
E-mail privately if you'd
>like,
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
>Thanks!
>
>Diane.
>
>(Was
Frank N. Furter Beat? Or did he just
bea...ah, never mind! ;)
>
>--
>"This
is Beat. Live your lives out? Naw, _love_ your lives out!"
> --Jack
Kerouac
>Diane
Marie Homza
>ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
>
Dear
Diane, May 27, 1997
It's been a long tiring day, as we try
to get the last few
disorderlies
here to agree that libel and copyright infringement should not
be part
of the Beat List.
I think we're winning.
VISIONS OF LUCIEN is an unfinished
book, which compiles all JK's
visions
of his friend Lucien Carr, just as VISIONS OF CODY compiled all his
visions
of Neal Cassady--no particular order, just the mind's association.
Jack had an idea to do a book tribute to each of his close
friends,
but
never found time, or lived long enough.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 00:53:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: is this about the Beats???
Tipper,
I'd
suggest you relax a little bit and take in what is said for a while.
You've caught the tail end of a "modest'
flame war going on right now, but I
promise
you if you hang in there for a bit you'll learn more about the Beats
than
you'll ever learn anywhere else. If you
have speific questions, ask
them,
they'll get answered, by people who know, by people who were there at
the
time and people who love the Beats and their works.
Jerry
Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 01:05:24 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dirk Vulgate or Paul Maher?
Gerry,
Do you
really think BIGDUCK2 (Dirk Vulgate) is really Paul Maher?
I kinda
thought this person might be Rod Anstee as both BIGDUCK2 and Rod are
on
AOL. Paul was on Pipeline although I guess
he could have gotten himself a
new
ISP.
I
backchanneled BIGDUCK2 asking who he is but he cameback w/"why should it
matter"
and declined to comment. Kind of makes
you wonder about someone who
no one
has ever heard of before making a post like that, doesn't it?
Has
anyone ever heard of Dirk Vulgate? And
Dirk, if you really are a real
person,
please identify yourself as such. I
don't want to insult a real
person
by claiming they don't exist, but how can you insult a phantom?
Wondering...
Jerry
Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 01:09:36 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: how annoying some of these whiny
people are!
Maya
Gorton wrote:
>I
will venture to say I never did like that "on the road" crap anyway.
Maya!
Good
Lord! Talk about fighin' words... If you're looking to get people's
attention
this is a good way to do it!
So OK,
I'll bite... what makes WSB "superior" to the other Beats?
Jerry
Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 22:10:20 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: "Purchased" versus
"Donated"
At
09:53 PM 5/27/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In
a message dated 97-05-26 18:23:37 EDT, you write:
>
><< In fact, I did not like the idea of selling
the archive to Weinberg,
>
since he would give me no guarantee about keeping the archive together,
>>
>
>Gerry:
>
>I
do not believe that negotiations that we have had about the sale of your
>archive
is the business of the Beat-L. It is my business and your business
>only.
If you want to discuss my business in any open forum like the Beat-L ,
>please
ask me first.
>
>I
will clarify one point, however, in reference to your statement quoted
>above.
>
>I
made the decision not to purchase your archive because in my opinion at the
>time,
your asking price was simply too high. You never refused to sell me
>your
archive because I would not guarantee to keep it together. If I had
>agreed
to your asking price, you would have gladly cashed my check....
>
>Of
course, I know that Rod was the person who first brought this matter up to
>this
forum when he quoted from your letter
to him....Yes - Rod is a very
>good
friend of mine but I do not think he should have quoted from your
>private
correspondence....
>JW
>WRB
>
Dear
Jeffrey, May 27, 1997
You say our negotiations shouldn't be public business, and then
you
go
ahead and discuss them here on the Beat-List anyway.
Jeffrey, how do you know I would have
cashed your check? You
offered
me fifteen thousand dollars and then I never heard from you
again--for
years.
As a matter of fact, your
unwillingness to answer my questions or
even to
get back to me bothered me a lot, and made me think I'd better start
looking
at libraries again.
That's as far as I'm going with this
here.
I've alluded to our rocky past. I am still hoping our present will
see
fruitful projects for both of us.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 22:17:37 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Why We Shouldn't Study Kerouac
At
09:58 PM 5/27/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In
a message dated 97-05-26 18:59:32 EDT, you write:
>
><<
Anstee already purchased major items from the Kerouac Archive for
>
his private collection, which have gone up tremendously in value >>
>
>
>Gerry:
>
>Please
let us know what major items Rod Anstee purchased from Mr. Sampas?
>
>Thanks
-
>JW
>WRB
>
Dear
Jeffrey: May 27, 1997
I was alluding to the long
singlespaced typed letter to John Clellon
Holmes,
which was actually a first draft of a section of VISIONS OF
CODY--which
apparently Kerouac didn't send but kept to use in his own
manuscript
of the new novel; and also a handwritten unsent letter to G.J.
Apostolos,
an important boyhood friend, revealing an important unknown
biographical
glimpse of the 19 or 20 year old Kerouac.
For Kerouac not to
have
mailed a letter gives it the importance of a notebook or journal
entry--it
was obviously a slice of his own life he wanted to hold onto.
Kerouac letters of this importance
have been selling for ten
thousand
dollars each at a recent San Francisco rare books fair, and from
what
Mr. Anstee told me, he paid a lot less for them when he purchased them
from
Mr. Sampas (thru you).
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 22:27:06 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Dirk Vulgate or Paul Maher?
At
01:05 AM 5/28/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Gerry,
>
>Do
you really think BIGDUCK2 (Dirk Vulgate) is really Paul Maher?
>
>I
kinda thought this person might be Rod Anstee as both BIGDUCK2 and Rod are
>on
AOL. Paul was on Pipeline although I
guess he could have gotten himself a
>new
ISP.
>
>I
backchanneled BIGDUCK2 asking who he is but he cameback w/"why should it
>matter"
and declined to comment. Kind of makes
you wonder about someone who
>no
one has ever heard of before making a post like that, doesn't it?
>
>Has
anyone ever heard of Dirk Vulgate? And
Dirk, if you really are a real
>person,
please identify yourself as such. I
don't want to insult a real
>person
by claiming they don't exist, but how can you insult a phantom?
>
>Wondering...
>
>
>Jerry
Cimino
>
Jerry, May 27, 1997
A big part of my master's degree was
linguistics, so I'm pretty good
at
picking up mannerisms of syntax and phrasing.
Anstee's syntax is
elegant,
restrained, with a frequent little sarcastic flip at the end.
Maher's
is crude, frontal assault. Unless
Anstee is more a master of
imitation
than I give him credit for, that was not dear Rod.
Best, Gerry
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 01:50:28 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Why We Shouldn't Study Kerouac
In a
message dated 97-05-28 01:43:22 EDT, you write:
<< Kerouac letters of this importance have
been selling for ten
thousand dollars each at a recent San
Francisco rare books fair, and >>
wow!
JW
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 22:44:05 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Hoops anyone?
In-Reply-To:
<970527170308_-1900877250@emout12.mail.aol.com>
At
05:05 PM 5/27/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In
a message dated 97-05-27 10:08:31 EDT, you write:
>
><< The Solitary Riders vs. The Conspirators
>
> Gerry Nicosia Rod Anstee
>
> Bentz Kirby Phil Chaput
>
> Jerry Cimino Paul Maher
>
> Wes Lundberg Attila Gyenis
>
> Mike Cakebread Ann Charters >>
>
>I'd
rather be on the side I am. Phil said he's bringing the beer and Ann's
>making
the potato salad.
>
>stretching
out, Attila
>
and i
will be the proverbial devils advocate cheerleader ;P~
--
Lisa M.
Rabey
Internet
and Computer Consultant
San
Francisco, California
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
**************************************
General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 23:06:17 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Arthur Maynard
<prinzhal@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: is this about the Beats???
At
12:15 AM 5/28/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Tipper
Quigg wrote:
>>
>> I literally signed on to this list
tonight, in hopes that I can find
>>
some people to discuss my favorite authors..But instead I get all this flame
>>
war stuff, out of the 7 post I recieved 6 of them were about legal
>>
battles...I was just wondering, is some legal page? is there one that has
>>
to do with the writing? Is this flaming
just a rare occurance or is this
>>
pretty common because as much as I love Kerouac and Burroughs, I don't think
>>
I can sit through this stuff...Maybe I'm over reacting but I've since this
>>
kinda stuff on other lists...Please say there are people out there who will
>>
talk to me...
>>
>>
help the economy...buy a Neil Young album...
>
>Tipper,
>
>Welcome. Just hang in there for a while and all the
nastiness will pass.
>
There are a lot of creative people here who love literature. Deep down,
>everyone
knows that the vision of the beats will not be lost in hassles
>over
estate matters. Join in, pick a topic,
invite others to discuss it.
>
People will talk to you.
>
>DC
>
Roger
that.
For
example, how come nobody ever seems to mention Maggie Cassidy?
Struck
me between the eyes close to 20 years ago, and I'm still struck.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 02:36:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Jan's service
At
06:26 PM 5/27/97 -0700, you wrote:
>....
I
>>had
one post denying that I had ever called Gerry a thief and in return for
>>that
denial I received a threat from Gerry that he would sue me. I can
>>understand
that if someone threatens to sue the beat-l (namely Nicosia) you
>>have
to take some kind of action but I feel that Jack and Allen would roll
>>over
in their graves if they knew the beat list was now CENSORED. It is a
>>sad
day indeed and I myself am considering signing off. I will see you folks
>>in
Nashua when I pay my final respects to Jan Kerouac.
> Actually I think Jack already rolled
over in his grave when his
>volume
of SELECTED LETTERS was censored.
> And it's curious you and Mr. Sampas
got invited to Jan's funeral,
>when
I didn't. How much time did you guys
spend with her in those last
>five,
hard, 4-dialyis-a-day years? Did you
ever watch her do a dialysis, Phil?
> Just wondering. I did.
> Best always, Gerry Nicosia
>
>Gerry,
what makes you think that John would get invited. I haven't been
invited
but I still would like to go to pay my respects. I met Jan when she
came to
Lowell and we had a nice conversation. I got some great photos of
her at
the dedication. She was friendly to me and I to her. Why would you
need an
invitation to go to a memorial service. Is it a private service? If
it is
let me know and I will respect anyones wishes on this. But I just
assumed
anyone could go to pay their respects to Jan. Inform us on the list
if you
know about it.Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 02:47:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Here is
another poem. I found it amongst some papers in a file
I was
working on, so I figured I would post it and see if
anyone
liked it, didn't like it, heard something etc.
Ebony,
pure and holy.
Truth
resides in eyes
So
timeless, so true.
Here is
the point
And the
departure --
Blessed
by God, annointed;
For
what?
Torture,
heartache, despair?
All
manner of human pain?
I try
but senseless it is.
Finding
what? Love?
Losing
what? Love?
Something
that is incapable of passion;
Something
that is incapable of Love;
Something
that is incapable of survival?
Ebony,
pure and holy,
Looking
into Linda's eyes.
April
12, 1995
Columbia,
SC
Bentz
Kirby
--------------------------------------------------------
Name:
R. Bentz Kirby
E-mail:
R. Bentz Kirby <bocelts@scsn.net>
Date:
05/28/97
Time:
02:42:49
This
message was sent by Z-Mail Pro - from NetManage
NetManage
- delivers Standards Based IntraNet Solutions
--------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 02:52:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: no you don't
At
09:03 PM 5/27/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Phil:
>
>You
can't sign off until we see whether you got a basketball game or
>not. "Chink" (hitting nothing but chain
here).
>
>I
am only 43, so I figure, I got an advantage here somewhere!!
Born
July 11, 1953 You?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 05:03:31 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Dirk Vulgate or Paul Maher?
Jerry
Cimino wrote:
>
>
Gerry,
>
> Do
you really think BIGDUCK2 (Dirk Vulgate) is really Paul Maher?
>
> I
kinda thought this person might be Rod Anstee as both BIGDUCK2 and Rod are
> on
AOL. Paul was on Pipeline although I
guess he could have gotten himself a
>
new ISP.
>
> I
backchanneled BIGDUCK2 asking who he is but he cameback w/"why should it
>
matter" and declined to comment.
Kind of makes you wonder about someone who
> no
one has ever heard of before making a post like that, doesn't it?
>
> Has
anyone ever heard of Dirk Vulgate? And
Dirk, if you really are a real
>
person, please identify yourself as such.
I don't want to insult a real
>
person by claiming they don't exist, but how can you insult a phantom?
>
>
Wondering...
>
>
Jerry Cimino
perhaps
Dick is a phantom ... phantomish talk is not a unique thing for
certain
Beat writers.
dbr
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 05:07:13 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Hoops anyone?
Lisa M.
Rabey wrote:
>
> At
05:05 PM 5/27/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>In a message dated 97-05-27 10:08:31 EDT, you write:
>
>
>
><< The Solitary Riders vs. The Conspirators
>
> > Gerry Nicosia Rod Anstee
>
> > Bentz Kirby Phil Chaput
>
> > Jerry Cimino Paul Maher
>
> > Wes Lundberg Attila Gyenis
>
> > Mike Cakebread Ann Charters >>
>
>
>
>I'd rather be on the side I am. Phil said he's bringing the beer and Ann's
>
>making the potato salad.
>
>
>
>stretching out, Attila
>
>
>
>
and i will be the proverbial devils advocate cheerleader ;P~
>
I'll
just play the devil ...
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 06:10:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: let's put the fun back in dysfunction!
In-Reply-To:
<970528010935_-128901973@emout07.mail.aol.com>
after
down loading 57 messages of vitriolic energy.
anyone
just want to grab a book, or whatever, and party with me?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 05:15:49 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: let's put the fun back in dysfunction!
Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
>
after down loading 57 messages of vitriolic energy.
>
>
anyone just want to grab a book, or whatever, and party with me?
I'll be
at a truck stop out Crawford by the Interstate....reading
something
and smoking too many cigarettes and drinking too much coffee.
Feel
free to drop by. I think this morning
I'll go to the one called
Russell's.
Starting
to get memories back on that blue room scene from others.
gradually
piecing together. Derek says we should
at least have
cyber-coffee.
david
rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 04:18:56 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James & Anita Brush
<brush@AINET.COM>
Subject: Re: please sign off Beat-L
RACE
--- wrote:
>
Marie Countryman wrote:
>
>
>
> after down loading 57 messages of vitriolic energy.
>
>
>
> anyone just want to grab a book, or whatever, and party with me?
>
>
I'll be at a truck stop out Crawford by the Interstate....reading
>
something and smoking too many cigarettes and drinking too much
> coffee.
>
>
Feel free to drop by. I think this
morning I'll go to the one called
>
Russell's.
>
>
Starting to get memories back on that blue room scene from others.
>
gradually piecing together. Derek says
we should at least have
>
cyber-coffee.
>
>
david rhaesa
Please
sign us off Beat-L, thanks.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 07:25:55 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MORE OXY THAN MORON
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Guidelines for Discourse-Sad day for
beat-l
Does
anyone know some history oh Webster Hall in NYC's Lower East Side? I
remember
reading about it in the Mina Loy biography. A few years back, Allen
Ginsberg
had his play KADDISH staged in a playhouse roughly in the same area,
does
anyone remember if that was Webster Hall? BTW, I had to admit, that play
was a
stinker. But what brings me to this point is that I thought Ken Babbs
said
that Ken Kesey's play TWISTER will be opening in NYC at the Webster Hall
in
about a half month or so. The book and video, published by Viking, will be
out in
about the same time, in one package (book and video all in one). Any
enlightment
appreciated......Dave B. PS, am going
to see BEAT-L member David
Ohle in
Columbus today with James Grauholtz to look at unpublished manuscripts
of Bill
Burroughs Jr. if you have any questions to pass along I'd be glad to
ask,
thanks (Dave B.)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 14:31:57 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Moritz Rossbach
<moro0000@STUD.UNI-SB.DE>
Subject: Re: Not Ashamed/Musing
In-Reply-To:
<970526211959_-129048208@emout18.mail.aol.com>
Hi
folks,
i am
not ashamed and i am not a whiny (!?), but would you please stop
dragging
germans/nazis/jews/hitler into this !
for
quite a while now, i noticed that Americans seem to be obsessed by
comparing
anything to the 3rd reich. i am not a historian ever and surely
too
young for any experience with the 3rd reich, but there is no
comparison
to these times with your little wars !
if you want to make far
off
comparisons, how about the slavery-times ? or discrimination of the
indians
?
stay at
home folks !
just a
friendly remark from an slightly annoyed german.
moritz rossbach
saarbruecken, germany
On Mon,
26 May 1997, Jerry Cimino wrote:
> I
don't agree with a lot of what you say in your "not ashamed post" and
I'm
>
glad YOU used the "Good German" analogy and not me as I don't want to
be
>
acused of calling anyone a Nazi/"Adolph Hitler apologist" or anything
else.
> And I laughed out loud w/regard to your
lightbulb joke!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 09:26:18 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Hemenway
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Copyright Facts
For
Authors and Estate Warriors.... The Library of Congress has an
excellent
on-line library of copyright information and laws. I got it from
their
gohper a couple of years ago, but I assume there is a homepage now.
It
shouldn't be hard to find.
Mark
Hemenway
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 09:12:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Czarnecki
<peent@SERVTECH.COM>
Subject: Re: let's put the fun back in
dysfunction!
>after
down loading 57 messages of vitriolic energy.
>
>anyone
just want to grab a book, or whatever, and party with me?
Hey,
how about grabbing a handful of poems and shuffling on up to
Plattsburgh
on June 13th/14th for a big poetry reading, wine, creative talk
and a
bit of poetic partying? Anyone else interested.
Michael
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 09:30:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Guidelines for Discourse-Sad day for
beat-l
In-Reply-To: <009B4EC0.D8120A60.16@kenyon.edu>
On Wed,
28 May 1997, MORE OXY THAN MORON wrote:
PS, am going to see BEAT-L member David
Ohle in Columbus today with James Grauholtz
to look at unpublished
manuscripts of Bill Burroughs Jr. if you have
any questions to pass
along I'd be glad to ask, thanks (Dave B.)
Just if
you can let us know what you see. I
think Bill Jr. had a lot of
of
unrecognized potential and would like to read more from him.
------------------
Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@acs.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 09:52:00 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Dirk Vulgate or Paul Maher?
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 27 May 1997 19:29:00 -0700
from
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Mr.
Vulgate has said that he will not post anything to the list on this matter
again. Gerry, your reply has been posted. Can we call it even now and can I h
ave
your word that if there's anything more to say on this matter, you and Mr.
Vulgate
will deal with it privately? These
flames are tearing the list aprat.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 09:53:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bruce Hartman
<bwhartmanjr@INAME.COM>
Subject: Re: let's put the fun back in
dysfunction!
Michael,
My geographic brain isn't working to
well this morning. . . Plattsburg
where? If it's not too far from me I might hope on
the ol' motorcycle and
make a
weekend trip of it. . .
Bruce
bwhartmanjr@iname.com
http://www.geocities.com/~tranestation
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 10:06:35 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: "Purchased" versus
"Donated"
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 27 May 1997 22:10:20 -0700
from
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
On Tue,
27 May 1997 22:10:20 -0700 Gerald Nicosia said:
>At
09:53 PM 5/27/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>In
a message dated 97-05-26 18:23:37 EDT, you write:
>>
>><< In fact, I did not like the idea of selling
the archive to Weinberg,
>>
since he would give me no guarantee about keeping the archive together,
>>
>>
>>Gerry:
>>
>>I
do not believe that negotiations that we have had about the sale of your
>>archive
is the business of the Beat-L. It is my business and your business
>>only.
If you want to discuss my business in any open forum like the Beat-L ,
>>please
ask me first.
>>
>>I
will clarify one point, however, in reference to your statement quoted
>>above.
>>
>>I
made the decision not to purchase your archive because in my opinion at the
>>time,
your asking price was simply too high. You never refused to sell me
>>your
archive because I would not guarantee to keep it together. If I had
>>agreed
to your asking price, you would have gladly cashed my check....
>>
>>Of
course, I know that Rod was the person who first brought this matter up to
>>this
forum when he quoted from your letter
to him....Yes - Rod is a very
>>good
friend of mine but I do not think he should have quoted from your
>>private
correspondence....
>>JW
>>WRB
>>
>Dear
Jeffrey, May 27, 1997
>
> You say our negotiations shouldn't be
public business, and then you
>go
ahead and discuss them here on the Beat-List anyway.
> Jeffrey, how do you know I would have
cashed your check? You
>offered
me fifteen thousand dollars and then I never heard from you
>again--for
years.
> As a matter of fact, your
unwillingness to answer my questions or
>even
to get back to me bothered me a lot, and made me think I'd better start
>looking
at libraries again.
> That's as far as I'm going with this
here.
> I've alluded to our rocky past. I am still hoping our present will
>see
fruitful projects for both of us.
> Best, Gerry Nicosia
Gerry and Jeff, these are just the types of
discussions that should be conduct
ed off
the list. Your business is between the
two of you. People on the list
have no
reason to view these posts. I'm sure
you both agree and will cooperate
in future posts. I post to reply to the list in order to encourage others who
have
comments and replies to specific parties to take those posts of the list.
Thank you for your cooperation.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 10:15:11 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: how annoying!
I think
wsb explored further and deeper the limits of what can be done with
words....he
manipulated them and juxtaposed them to create new associative
pathways,
not just poetry but Original Thought.
Although I like the poetry
of the
other beats, it's their prose i find less-than-satisfying. Somehow it
doesn't
make my synapses snap, crackle and pop like Burroughs' does.
Although I enjoy the "moods" of
Kerouac and Ginsberg, (sad, nostalgic,
despairing,
ironic, gleeful, etc.) I prefer the biting sarcasm and
intersecting
plateaus of humor, disgust, bitterness, futility and hope in
Burroughs'
work. Not to mention the intellectual
stimulation i get from
reading
him, which ultimately, inevitably, climaxes into a physical expulsion
of
words/paintings/music by me......
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 10:25:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: pome and thoughts of the day
In-Reply-To: <199705271840.OAA24405@everest>
diane di Prima
"anti
copyright"
from
Revolution Art Letters
THE
REVOLUTION OF EVERYDAY LIFE
1
if we
are going to make anything happen
then we
are going to have to get down to it ourselves
because
nobody is going to do if for us
if we
have any power at all it is in each other
not
politics, commodity
or our
lives being sold out for product
and so
called
'progress',
the unchecked consumption
of
land/spirit/life, not any one thing:
art
nature politics business religion or family
once
they are not the daily expressions of
life
with complete participation
desire
existence
we end
up not thinking for ourselves,
as
person, as community, as intimate participant
in the
living woven pattern of the universe
2
this is
a call to end materialist vision
the
failed consciousness that continues to
play along a death fault
this is
the revolution of the event of living now
living
everyday as if it mattered
the
tragedy of modern mainstream civilization
is the
externalization of the physical universe
we must
have faith that we are not stuck
isolated
in superiority
alienated
from the world around us
but
involved by our every breath
in the
cooperative design of all living things
to meet
coincide superimpose
so that
the inside and outside are the same
that
the substance of yourself is nothing but yourself
in
common with everything
every
human being is an artist
just by
being alive
3
the
possibility of destruction is always implicit
in the
act of creation
the
greatest enemy of individual freedom
is the
individual: we cannot
be free
unless we are willing to sacrifice at least some
of our
own interests and desires
to
guarantee the freedom of others
4
we will
move in the shadows and traces
of an
impenetrable jungle
moon
loop ripple that haunts you forever
there
are things that can be known
the
integrity of the entire poetic corpus
becomes
an open force field to use
of
action and perception
as
secret(sacred) image ofthe pre-
being
received and heard by a post-individual
across
all the intervening years
continuity
-- 'ceremonial time'
make
use of what you can
what
has been said
what is
being said
what
will be said
there
are no beginnings or endings or climaxes
but
proccesses, becoming
past
and present in the poetic consciousness
are not
the past and present of history and journalism
thery
are not that which was nor that which happens
but
that which is being
that
which is creating itself
'the
continuous present'
5
the
success of any revolution, whether individual
or as a
community taking control
resides
only in itself
precisely
in the vibrations and openings
it
gives to us at the moment of its making
composes
in itself history and memory
root
rot giggle done mound past in dark brown chamber earth
opening
as beautiful as mallarme's
imagined
flowers, in the imagination
dreams
hopes and acts of us together
6
don't
let anyone tell you how much better things were
at any
other time or point in historoy
we are
all dealing with the same struggle, the same thing
to
makes something of the breath given
we will
live and create now
a
generational mixing of ideas images distortions contours
desires
examination revolutions
to mix
across the boundaries in swirls and gestures
understanding
acepting attempting
cultural
transformation
the
restoration of lostness, a remarking using
language
biology phisosophy technology patterns
noise
love culture nature fun hate nation and antii-nation
space
and blankess and imaginaton making worlds
anything
that will open the whole
this
life to invention
mixed
collaborative creations
to make
real our time, here
7
to go
about this
we must
start again as individuals
form
small tribes in the contemporary sense
do what
we can do to subvert the desruction
of
everything that lives
show by
example that we can be considered (a)part
of the
bioregions we inhabit
stand
up and refuse to pareticipate
in the
death march
'revolution
is not the overthrow of the existing system
but the
setting up alongside of a better on'
8
to know
the spirit of a place
is to
know that you are a part of a part
and
that the whole is made of parts
each of
which is a whole
start
with the part you are whole in
9
as our
egoism dies in this new vision
as we
are jerked and thrown in through
the gut
and jaw and lungs
in and
outside of ourselves
we are
free to live in ways we never thought possible
a
signifcance of transformation to become what you must
enter
pattern complete magic argued
wonder
seduce intone
10
this
spectacle of now is to confide in the future
the
constantly renewed and resumed struggle
cast
knowts in patterns on top of patterns
free
yourself of hierachization
develop
action thought desires
through
patterns of relations and juxtapositions
dwell
in paradox and mystery
mistrust
all rigid categories and logical alternatives
destroy
the repeated forms of expression
immediately
so as
to make repetition and incorporation impossible
destroy
all forms of oppression
against
self, against otherness, nature,
universe
and
become a set of patterns
a
beautiful tapestry of interactions
11
that we
might rest our heads in each other's hearts
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 10:32:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Czarnecki
<peent@SERVTECH.COM>
Subject: Re: let's put the fun back in
dysfunction!
>Michael,
>
> My geographic brain isn't working to
well this morning. . . Plattsburg
>where? If it's not too far from me I might hope on
the ol' motorcycle and
>make
a weekend trip of it. . .
>
>
>Bruce
Be
great if you could. A mini-beat-L gathering of sorts.
Plattsburgh,
far northeastern New York State on the shores of Champlain,
not too
far from ole Montreal and in sight of theancient ones, the
Adirondacks!
I'll be driving up from Corning, NY - Finger Lakes, NY through
Oneonta,
Schenectedy/Albany etc.
best,
Michael
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 09:41:03 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: let's put the fun back in
dysfunction!
What's
going on in Plattsburgh on the 13th/14th? It's only an hour from
Montreal.
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky
and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 10:56:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bruce Hartman
<bwhartmanjr@INAME.COM>
Subject: Re: let's put the fun back in
dysfunction!
Michael,
Northeast New York state? That's a little far for a weekend trip for
me.
.
. I'm in Chesapeake, Virginia. Sounds fun, though. If you guys make it
happen,
have a ball. I'll be thinking of you.
Bruce
bwhartmanjr@iname.com
http://www.geocities.com/~tranestation
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 10:06:50 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: let's put the fun back in dysfunction!
Bruce
Hartman wrote:
>
>
Michael,
>
> Northeast New York state? That's a little far for a weekend trip for
me.
> .
. I'm in Chesapeake, Virginia. Sounds fun, though. If you guys make it
>
happen, have a ball. I'll be thinking
of you.
>
>
Bruce
>
bwhartmanjr@iname.com
>
http://www.geocities.com/~tranestation
sounds
wonderful. quite far from kansas. i remember the ferry ride
from
burlington across to Plattsburgh. it
happened i was there on a
homecoming
weekend and the memories of the school band marching and
playing
still hurt my ears.
i will
be with you in spirit. hope you bring
back good memories from
the
event to report here on the list. as a
wish-i-was-there-a-be, the
best
i'll be able to do is attempt to create something from memories of
the
area in something imaginative to share as well.
and for
marie. thanks for the wonderful
poem. it brightened a very
gloomy
day. felt the words stab at points that
needed a good stabbing.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================