=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 00:50:16 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and
Why?
RACE
--- wrote:
>
>
> in
another direction, i don't think that jerry c. comprehends what is
>
being suggested when he likens it to 'turning the other cheek'. i think
> it
is much more 'picking your punches'.
gerry n. seems to counter-punch
> at
the stupidest comments with full rhetorical flare. it is difficult
>
for me to distinguish which comments he finds credible and which he
> senses
are made of straw when the power of the replies is the same
>
regardless of the content of the previous posts.
>
David,
Thank
you for describing more clearly what I was trying to say, which is
not so
much "turn the other cheek" as it is "picking your
punches."
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 23:10:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Untitled
Bentz,
This is the one that really grabbed me
- particularly the ominous
final
line.
Antoine ...listening to "Leo
Kottke Live"
************
>Untitled
and unfinished
>
>The
cabooseless train crawls by the queue of cars.
>She
walks around the barrier.
>Off
white sweater, black pants, horn rims,
>Mid-calf
boots and a look like life had worn her out.
>Her
flayed red hair sprawled like pampass grass untrimed.
>
>I
could see her mother's dreams hovering above
>Her
sad trail, the fear that all of that tiny spark could evaporate.
>Something
has taken her over--
>It
is racking her posture.
>It
is stealing the light from her eyes.
>It
is leaving behind a shell of dreams,
>As
big as anyones.
>Dreams
stillborn in the grass,
>Wrapped
in a bag and dumped in a dumpster.
>Dreams
trailing in the wakeof trains
>That
run over humans,
>Dreams
left driftiing in the ebb and flow
>Of
this great city.
>Dreams
washed to the bank,
>Wrung
out, lifeless, or barely alive.
>
>She
walks around the barrier.
>
>Bentz
Kirby
>1995
>Columbia,
SC
>
>--
>Bentz
>bocelts@scsn.net
>
>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
>
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky
and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 01:27:06 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and
Why?
Gerald
Nicosia wrote:
>
>
May 31, 1997
> I am pursuing the gentlest means
possible to end this kind of
>
coercion--for that is what it is--but I will not give up until it is indeed
>
ended.
> And yes, by the way, slander does
hurt. It hurt Jan's cause a good
>
deal while she lived, and it is hurting my efforts to carry on her cause:
>
which is the saving of Jack Kerouac's archive for posterity.
> Yours truly, Gerald Nicosia
Gerald,
I do
understand the anger and hurt you must feel.
I know that it is a
highly
emotional situation. I have felt from
the beginning of all of
this
that your cause was noble, and I respect the fact that you intend
to
follow it to its legal resolution. I
would respect you for
carrying
out a friend's last wishes even if it wasn't the Kerouac
archives
we were talking about. That is why I
think you should be the
one to
continue to put forth logical, valid arguments with the facts and
avoid
responding to verbal barrages that are no more than just that. All
I am
saying is don't weaken your position with your own words. Let the
facts
speak for themselves.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 23:58:40 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and
Why?
Diane
Carter wrote:
>
>
Gerald Nicosia wrote:
>
>
>
> May 31, 1997
>
>
> I am pursuing the gentlest
means possible to end this kind of
>
> coercion--for that is what it is--but I will not give up until it is
indeed
>
> ended.
>
> And yes, by the way,
slander does hurt. It hurt Jan's cause
a good
>
> deal while she lived, and it is hurting my efforts to carry on her cause:
>
> which is the saving of Jack Kerouac's archive for posterity.
>
> Yours truly, Gerald Nicosia
>
>
Gerald,
>
> I
do understand the anger and hurt you must feel. I know that it is a
>
highly emotional situation. I have felt
from the beginning of all of
>
this that your cause was noble, and I respect the fact that you intend
> to
follow it to its legal resolution. I
would respect you for
>
carrying out a friend's last wishes even if it wasn't the Kerouac
>
archives we were talking about. That is
why I think you should be the
>
one to continue to put forth logical, valid arguments with the facts and
>
avoid responding to verbal barrages that are no more than just that. All
> I
am saying is don't weaken your position with your own words. Let the
>
facts speak for themselves.
>
>
patricia wrote,
It
would be a wonderful world if ignoring ignoble attacks worked. I had
a good
reputation and it was hard earned, my boss gave me a minion that
disquised
the truth with every known dressing except honesty. She
accused
me almost daily of such a wide variety of things that i decided
she was
dangerously insane, when she brought up bizarre and unproven
accusations
my boss looked at me and said, prove they are not so. I
almost
had a nervous break down, i thought that the fact that i was
telling
the truth and had a track record would speak for me. well she is
still
at the job, i am out and he smirks , he used her to get me out
because
he wasn't so found of the truth or me. I hear she is pointed in
a new
direction, doing his dirty work for him,
I have no thought that
he
won't retire with honors. It is very hard to fight accusations and
contorted
lies. the probalby best way is to call
them on it and somehow
fight
the shadows and smoke with fact. If
this is the type of shit you
have
had to deal with for years and seen it
wear down and exhaust
others
then you have my heart. I am farther
away from my own experiance
but
while i am working on forgiving them i won't forget the lessons.
The
winding serpants lie is poisonous, don't unravel their shit so much
continue
stating the truth. don't bother trying to explain their nature
their
posts show it.
and by
the way. thanks for dropping the counter attacks, the list is
producing
jewels again.
patricia
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 01:30:57 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Paul Maher
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and
Why?
At
08:40 AM 5/31/97 -0700, you wrote:
> May 31, 1997
>Maya
Gorton writes:
>>Why
don't you too faggots e-mail each other instead of bombarding us innocent
>>listees
with your petty drivel?
>
>Dear
Maya,
> I have been happily married to my
second wife (a woman) for five years.
> I don't care to exchange libelous
exchanges with Mr. Chaput on or
>off
the list.
> Mr. Gargan and several others,
including myself, have tried very
>hard
to get the dialogue on this List back within legal and civilized
>parameters,
i.e., to get rid of the libel, slander, defamation, and printing
>of
people's private letters, which is also illegal.
> Every time we do, Mr. Chaput or one of
his allies, like Mr. Maher,
>comes
back with a tirade of verbal abuse and verbal assault against me--the
>same
tactics, by the way, that were used to try to shut down Brad Parker and
>his
independent Kerouac events in Lowell.
> At the same time, Mr. Chaput and a few
others have been quick to
>point
their finger at me as the person who is destroying the Beat-List.
> The reality is: MR. CHAPUT AND HIS
COHORTS ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE
>ENDANGERING
THIS LIST.
> They are putting me in the untenable
position of 1) either having to
>leave
the list myself; or 2) take legal action against Brooklyn College and
>the
Beat-List for distributing this libelous material--NEITHER OF WHICH I
>WANT
TO DO.
> I.e., either I allow the bullies to
win yet another victory (like
>the
victory they won when they dragged a 100-pound invalid, Jan Kerouac, out
>of
the Jack Kerouac Conference at NYU) or I do possible harm to the Beat
>forum
which all of you enjoy so much.
> I do not like being put in this
position. And I suggest if you
>really
care about the Beat-List--all of you--that you tell Mr. Chaput and
>Mr.
Maher now that you want them TO IMMEDIATELY STOP CREATING THIS DANGEROUS
>DILEMMA.
> You might ask yourself, why are they
doing this?
> As you say, if they don't like my
messages, they can simply delete
>them. I am not writing anything that is a verbal
assault on their career,
>their
personal life, etc., as they are doing to me.
> The truth is, I believe, that they
(for certain very definite
>political
reasons) cannot stand the idea that Gerald Nicosia is on the Beat
>List
and able to speak to 200 Beat fans and scholars in a quiet, reasonable
>forum.
> So they have determined to get me off
in any way they can--and the
>only
way they know how is to act as bullies.
It is the way that has worked
>for
them so far. But I am determined it is
not going to work for them this
>time.
> Thanks for listening.
> Best always, Gerry Nicosia
>Delusional
as usual Mr. Nicosia..........I haven't posted anything to or
about
your sorry ass in a week....
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 02:03:54 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: poem for Allen Ginsberg
After
Allen Ginsberg's death it took me a while to write a poem. Things
needed
to settle down in my mind a bit, I guess.
But here's one I think
I'm
ready to share now.
Allen
Ginsberg poet dead at 70
You
were prepared to meet death I think
I am
not
also
not prepared to know that you are gone from this place
I never
met you in person yet I knew you intimately
felt
your skin
felt
what lie underneath
1975 or
76 I don't know exactly
your
voice chanting howl from an old record
stolen
from the college library
my
stereo speakers were broken
your
voice was scratchy but clear
I was
lost in Molach
lost in
my own madhouse
the
privacy of my own mind
I
couldn't get out
a
private Molach
long
days pounding at a typewriter that lost my words as soon as
I saw
them
I
wanted to see something see anything
I
thought you were a visionary
I knew
that you were
I saw
Prometheus pushing a rock up the hill over and over again
I felt
sorry for Prometheus
Sorry
as I listened to Jim Croce and wondered what it would be like
to know
what you want and then be dead
dead
and gone
gone
and where
back to
your mother
to the
cold luminous steel of the walls closing in
walls
of the mind
walls
shouting at you and at me
then I
felt as old as the earth itself
like
Dedalus unable to embrace the great mother
see the
cycle of the river
no the
river is littered with garbage like the filthy passaic
too
many beer bottles too few sunflowers
I drank
in my pain it did not go away
I drank
some more
searching
for illusions
ghosts
of a once fragile existence
where
are you going now
where
have you gone
the
journey of the soul is your's now
I will
never be ready for that
I am
ready now only to embrace my own humanness
your
humanness
the
frailty of passing
peeing
in the night crouched low so no one can see
where
beyond fingernails and skin and teeth does life reside?
once I
wanted to die
I knew
the fate of utter aloneness
does
that pass for oneness with the universe?
crying
babies bashing out their brains in the night of eternity
bars
closed
everyone
gone somewhere into the night
oh it
is dark and cold
across
America across the American sky
are you
eternal?
are you
one with the eternal one?
death
is a shout in the dark or maybe that is wrong
maybe
it is life that is the shout in the dark
I found
in you the faith to be me
to
continue to shout long after the people had passed
I will
shout for you now that you are gone
like an
eternal echo
there
are lines and planes and penuses mixed with flowers and green grass
and
water soaked with oil and blood
come
back now and speak to me
do it
now
do it
soon
I am
not ready to die.
Diane
Carter
May 11,
1997
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 01:35:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Paul Maher
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and
Why?
At
10:51 AM 5/31/97 -0700, you wrote:
> May
31, 1997
>Annie
Shank writes:
>>Hey,
I just got here. And I was hoping to
find further discourse of the
>>kind
I enjoyed with Lee Bartlett for an entire semester just past...
>... Can we talk about the literature for a
change?
>
>Annie,
> I couldn't agree with you more. But do you want to belong to a
>Beat-List
where a gang of 2 or 3 bullies can force anyone off the list,
>whenever
they so choose, just by applying an endless, unchecked stream of
>verbal
abuse to that targeted person?
> There's been a lot of hoo-ha about
free speech and censorship in Mr.
>Chaput's
past few posts. There is nothing in the
U.S. Constitution that
>guarantees
one person the right to verbally abuse and/or verbally damage
>another
person. To claim that one has the right
to libel and verbally
>assault
another person ("Hey, you dirty Jew!" "Hey, you dirty nigger!"
>"Hey,
you dirty wop!") is a lot closer to fascism than the democracy I grew
>up
learning about.
> I want to talk about literature too,
but I also want a Beat-List
>where
I'm free to speak sound, rational, level-headed opinions--even if it's
>about
the Kerouac Estate--without two or three guys jumping at me with
>vicious
verbal attacks on my career, my personal life, my income, and
>anything
else they can think of.
> Don't you want that too?
> Respectfully, Gerald Nicosia
>Whatever
you do though Annie...don't say anything about Gerry Nicosia or
his
priceless scholarship because as you will find out thereafter...you will
always
be wrong.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 01:47:04 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Paul Maher
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and
Why?
>Who's
on Nicosia's side? He's standing there
alone taking a hammering and
>people
post to HIM that HE should turn the other cheek!
POOR
BABY.....
That's nonsense!
AND THE
WHOLE WORLD IS UNFAIR
>
You walk in his shoes for a while and see how long you'd keep silent.
No
thank-you....I dare not tread where Master Gerry has travelled...
Every
>time
one of these people shoots these flames toward Gerry substitute YOUR
>NAME
where his is and see how long you could stand it.
**********So
then what would my reaction be?????????
You're living in a
>dream
world if you expect Gerry to stay silent on this. He's not going to do
>it! I wouldn't!
And I bet you wouldn't either!
*******Boy
you really made a point there!
>
>The
way to bring PEACE to this list is to silence the attackers. Try doing
>that
for a while and see what the results are.
****Go
ahead, silence us so that gerry can have the whole boat to himself
then he
can really pontificate his propaganda....
>
>Peace!
>
>That
is all and well good...but why is everybody so stuck on him being
right
all the time?
Your
all in for a big surprise one day....Cimino, your just as bad. i only
respond
"negatively" when Nicosia opens his big mouth. What would you like
me to
do? Inform me privately...I will tell you what I am up against. I
could
care less about Nicosia and his issues but he constantly has to bring
me up.
I was staying quiet because I was fed up and bored with the whole
thing
but then YOU and Nicosia bring my name into the picture. Please......
>
>Jerry
Cimino
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 01:49:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Paul Maher
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: All Things
At
09:08 PM 5/31/97 -0400, you wrote:
>No,
Gerry did not kill the beat list. Nor
did Rod or Phil.
>
>But
there were times that the prospect of "distroying the village in order to
>save
it" seemed possible (A phrase that some Vietnam-era General or somebody
>used
to explain the distruction of a real village, know who Gerry?). There
>is
a time to let fly, even to threaten peacefully.
>
>I
never said much during our most notable (and I suspect most enduring) flame
>war,
because I had no first hand knowledge to contribute. Now that things
>have
settled just a bit, my opinion is that in the best of all possible
>worlds
I support the vision of Gerry Nicosea.
All of Jack's papers in one
>accessable
place to promote Kerouac scholarship and study throughout the
>ages. I think that is Gerry's vision. If not, I humbly apologize for
>misstating
your vision.
No....Gerry's
vision is to have the estate to himself because he is scared
that
when the authorized bio is written his book will be outdated and
useless.
But it may not take that long. I think Ellis Amburn's book will
chop up
his book good and plenty.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 01:51:57 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Paul Maher
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and
Why?
At
06:14 PM 5/31/97 -0700, you wrote:
> May 31, 1997
>Diane
Carter writes:
>
>. Why don't you erase the anger
>>from
your own posts and only respond in a rational, level-headed way. If
>>you
truly want to be respected here, stop engaging in the battle.
>>
>
>Diane, I have erased my anger. But that doesn't mean I want or should be
>subjected
to a stream of abuse every time I turn on my computer.
> Imagine, can you, how you would feel
if every day when you went to
>log
onto the Beat List, people were accusing you of various actual crimes
>you
didn't commit, insulting you and your family, telling you you dare not
>mention
the name of a famous man without "disgracing" him from your polluted
>lips,
etc.
> This cannot be allowed to go on, if
this list is not to become the
>property
of a few arrogant individuals who feel they can intimidate and
>drive
off any discussion they do not like--drive if off, not with cogent,
>intelligent
argument, but drive it off with the most vicious and disgusting
>tactics.
> I am pursuing the gentlest means
possible to end this kind of
>coercion--for
that is what it is--but I will not give up until it is indeed
>ended.
> And yes, by the way, slander does
hurt. It hurt Jan's cause a good
>deal
while she lived, and it is hurting my efforts to carry on my cause to
have
the estate to myself so that I can prevent my book from becoming obsolete.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 01:43:09 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dixon Edmiston <DIXCIN@AOL.COM>
Subject: no subject
test of
scuttling claws from Altoona-test only
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 00:46:53 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "William H. Rose, III"
<schpill@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and
Why?
Gerry,
Please, lighten up a bit will
you. I was under the impression
that the
Beat-L list was for the gathering and discussing of information
concerning
the beat writers and their literature. You have managed to
write
an informative and well-written 700+ page book on the life of Jack
Kerouac
and yet in the past month all you have posted is pure emotional
backlash.
How about contributing to the base knowledge of what the beat
generation
really stands for? Every post you make seems to contain the
words
libel, law suit, sue, etc. Get back to the basics and tell us
about
Jack and Neal and Bill and Al. I'm sure that you have a great deal
that
you could contribute about the men and women we wish to discuss. I,
for
one, would much rather hear you speak as emotionally about them as
you do
about all the legal matters and personal issues with others that
you
have concerned yourself with. When are you going to tell us about
Jack
and his youth, how and why he wrote Dr. Sax or anything else that
relates
to the SUBJECT AT HAND? By all means, fight your good fight, but
do it
on the battlefield (read courtroom) and not in my living room.
Thanks,
Bill.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 00:42:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Bill gargon help
Bill, I
like a good argument but this isn't good where people get to say
crap,
disquise the own words as gn's.
p ( of
course list father is not a position i really want any one in but
as list
mother i would like more intellectual meat and less beatting the
meat.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 02:14:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Paul Maher
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and Why?
At
08:40 AM 5/31/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
May 31, 1997
>Maya
Gorton writes:
>>Why
don't you too faggots e-mail each other instead of bombarding us innocent
>>listees
with your petty drivel?
>
>Dear
Maya,
> I have been happily married to my
second wife (a woman) for five years.
> I don't care to exchange libelous
exchanges with Mr. Chaput on or
>off
the list.
> Mr. Gargan and several others,
including myself, have tried very
>hard
to get the dialogue on this List back within legal and civilized
>parameters,
i.e., to get rid of the libel, slander, defamation, and printing
>of
people's private letters, which is also illegal.
> Every time we do, Mr. Chaput or one of
his allies, like Mr. Maher,
>comes
back with a tirade of verbal abuse and verbal assault against me--the
>same
tactics, by the way, that were used to try to shut down Brad Parker and
>his
independent Kerouac events in Lowell.
> At the same time, Mr. Chaput and a few
others have been quick to
>point
their finger at me as the person who is destroying the Beat-List.
> The reality is: MR. CHAPUT AND HIS
COHORTS ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE
>ENDANGERING
THIS LIST.
> They are putting me in the untenable
position of 1) either having to
>leave
the list myself; or 2) take legal action against Brooklyn College and
>the
Beat-List for distributing this libelous material--NEITHER OF WHICH I
>WANT
TO DO.
> I.e., either I allow the bullies to win yet another victory
(like
>the
victory they won when they dragged a 100-pound invalid, Jan Kerouac, out
>of
the Jack Kerouac Conference at NYU) or I do possible harm to the Beat
>forum
which all of you enjoy so much.
> I do not like being put in this
position. And I suggest if you
>really
care about the Beat-List--all of you--that you tell Mr. Chaput and
>Mr.
Maher now that you want them TO IMMEDIATELY STOP CREATING THIS DANGEROUS
>DILEMMA.
> You might ask yourself, why are they doing this?
Who is
the bully now? Do you feel yourself being slowly revealed for who you
are by
two people who are in the know so you cleverly try to bounce us out
of the
list by making ultimatums to a university? Please people how can you
swallow
this crap....just because someone wrote a book doesn't make them
instant
celebrity. You will never attract real Beat writers on this list
BECAUSE
of Nicosia!!!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 02:40:47 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dirk Vulgate <BIGDUCK2@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and
Why?
In a
message dated 97-06-01 02:00:41 EDT, Gerry Nicosia wrote:
<< They are putting me in the untenable
position of 1) either having
to
>leave the list myself; or 2) take legal
action against Brooklyn College and
>the Beat-List for distributing this
libelous material--NEITHER OF WHICH I
>WANT TO DO.
>
I do not like being put in this position. And I suggest if you
>really care about the Beat-List
--ALL
OF YOU-- (emphasis mine)
that
you tell Mr. Chaput and Mr. Maher now that you want them TO IMMEDIATELY
STOP
CREATING THIS DANGEROUS DILEMMA. >>
***************************************************
I don't see Gerry Nicosia's leaving the
list as dangerous at all. We've
already
lost a dozen valuable longtime lively members. They are no longer
with us
sharing their well-founded opinions, knowledge and sense of humor
because
they have found they cannot have a rational discussion with Nicosia.
I think
losing the will (or feeling too intimidated) to express oneself in
this
formerly free-wheeling forum is where the true danger lies.
I invite everyone who no longer wants to
hear what Gerald Nicosia has to
say to
simply stop responding to his posts. We can put his mind to rest and
save
him the agony of needing to sue anyone if we just all agree to shut up,
right?
Then we will have our Beat-L list back.
After all, what is the sound of one hand
clapping?
Sincerely
yours,
Dirk
Vulgate, Jr. (dv2)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 00:15:38 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and
Why?
>Who
is the bully now? Do you feel yourself being slowly revealed for who you
>are
by two people who are in the know so you cleverly try to bounce us out
>of
the list by making ultimatums to a university? Please people how can you
>swallow
this crap....just because someone wrote a book doesn't make them
>instant
celebrity. You will never attract real Beat writers on this list
>BECAUSE
of Nicosia!!!!!
Sorry
Paul but I have been reading these threads for a while now as an
objective
outside observer. I have no affiliation
with anyone having
anything
to do with beat literature or publishing or the estate or estate
battle.
I have
learned a lot about the doings of the estate and kerouac scholarship
and how
people can access or not access the "data"--ie the his noteboks
etc...
For example if someone was interested enough to write a book about
kerouac's
literary influences they would need to be able to read the study
and
make notes of kerouac's archives.
In all
this it is clear that Nicosia is right about where Kerouac's
archives
should be and their availiability to researchers should be equal
and
open.
The
estate battle and forged wills I don't know about nor could i know.
But
even if there were not opposing claims to the motherlode, Nicosia's
comments
are important and right. For a major
writer of the 20th century
(something
we here at the beat-l have known, but the mainstream is just
beginning
to pick up on) not to have his papers treated in the most
aboveboard
scholarly and academic manner (ie all of them kept together as
much as
possible at an institute where scholars and others interested can
access
them equally) is a crime against literature and against the readers
of the
world.
Nicosia
is not talking crap.
He does
have the flair for rhetoric and can lay it on thick which can make
people
miss his main important points.
Points
all of us must agree with I would think.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 03:22:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: Untitled
Antoine
Maloney wrote:
>
Bentz,
>
> This is the one that really grabbed
me - particularly the
>
ominous
>
final line.
>
> Antoine ...listening to
"Leo Kottke Live"
>
> ************
>
>
>Untitled and unfinished
>
>
>
>The cabooseless train crawls by the queue of cars.
>
>She walks around the barrier.
>
>Off white sweater, black pants, horn rims,
>
>Mid-calf boots and a look like life had worn her out.
>
>Her flayed red hair sprawled like pampass grass untrimed.
>
>
>
>I could see her mother's dreams hovering above
>
>Her sad trail, the fear that all of that tiny spark could evaporate.
>
>Something has taken her over--
>
>It is racking her posture.
>
>It is stealing the light from her eyes.
>
>It is leaving behind a shell of dreams,
>
>As big as anyones.
>
>Dreams stillborn in the grass,
>
>Wrapped in a bag and dumped in a dumpster.
>
>Dreams trailing in the wakeof trains
>
>That run over humans,
>
>Dreams left driftiing in the ebb and flow
>
>Of this great city.
>
>Dreams washed to the bank,
>
>Wrung out, lifeless, or barely alive.
>
>
>
>She walks around the barrier.
>
>
>
>Bentz Kirby
>
>1995
>
>Columbia, SC
>
>
>
>--
>
>Bentz
>
>bocelts@scsn.net
>
>
>
>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
>
>
> Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
> "An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what
> to
do!"
> -- Norman Navrotsky
and Utah Phillips
Antoine:
Thank
you. That poem is about a year old
though I am still working on
it. I was watching this woman one day who was on
foot as we waited for
the
train to go by. She was headed to give
plasma for blood. As the
train
went by, she walked around the barrier long before the cars could
go, but
she was walking to some depressing something of no hope. It
just
struck a chord. I am touched by the
fact that I was able to report
the
experience and someone "got it."
Thank you.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 03:37:12 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Paul Mayer proves the point
Paul
you wrote this:
>Whatever
you do though Annie...don't say anything about Gerry Nicosia
or
his
priceless scholarship because as you will find out thereafter...you
will
always
be wrong.
Please
stop making personal attacks on other members off the list. The
owner
and many of us have requested that you stop.
I hope that Gerry
will
let this die, but you continue own despite the fact you know that
the
owner of the list has asked you to stop.
If you have something bad
to say
about someone who is a member or person or alive or dead, take it
back
channel unless it is critisim and not personal.
I am
tired of personal attacks on members of this list. We get what you
think. Please be civil.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 03:42:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Calling Dirk Vulgate
Dirk,
I do
not believe you are a real person.
Please e-mail me privately with your
phone
number so I can call you and we can talk like gentlemen - no shouting,
I
promise!
Jerry
Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 03:38:38 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: Bill gargon help
Patricia
Elliott wrote:
>
Bill, I like a good argument but this isn't good where people get to
>
say
>
crap, disquise the own words as gn's.
> p
( of course list father is not a position i really want any one in
>
but
> as
list mother i would like more intellectual meat and less beatting
>
the
>
meat.
Patricia:
Thank
you and LOL.
Bill,
Please
remind those who continue the personal attacks that this is not
approriate.
Thanks.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 00:46:25 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Malcolm Lawrence
<Malcolm@WOLFENET.COM>
Subject: The Unveiling
If
anyone is interested, my website is finally ready. Without further ado, I
give you:
Splashing
Heart
http://www.wolfenet.com/~malcolm
Valentines
of the world, unite and take over.
Enjoy!
Malcs
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 03:42:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Please stop this
POOR
BABY.....
That's nonsense!
AND THE
WHOLE WORLD IS UNFAIR
--
****Go ahead, silence us so that gerry can have the whole boat to
himself
then he
can really pontificate his propaganda....
Your
all in for a big surprise one day....Cimino, your just as bad. i
only
respond
"negatively" when Nicosia opens his big mouth. What would you
like
me to
do? Inform me privately...I will tell you what I am up against. I
could
care less about Nicosia and his issues but he constantly has to
bring
me up.
I was staying quiet because I was fed up and bored with the whole
thing
but then YOU and Nicosia bring my name into the picture.
Please......
Paul:
What is
it exactly that you are saying here? I
have yet to find any
discussoin
of anything in your post. It simply
involves your personal
thing
with Gerry. Take it off the list.
Thank
you,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 03:47:49 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Paul Mayer
and it is hurting my efforts to carry on my
cause to
have
the estate to myself so that I can prevent my book from becoming
obsolete.
Paul,
have you no self respect. This is a
post that is intended to make
it look
like Gerry said this. You should be
embarrassed. Why do this
in public?
I hope
that someone else out there will respond to this either publicly
or
privately. This is very very negative.
Gerry,
Please
let it slide.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 04:02:25 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Paul Mayer
Christ,
Paul, you are one sick puppy.
E-mail
me your address and I'll send you $100 so you can go see a shrink!
Jerry
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 04:28:55 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: ty <ursus@RIVER.GWI.NET>
Subject: Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and Why?
In-Reply-To:
<v01510100afb672423059@[128.125.224.171]>
>
But even if there were not opposing claims to the motherlode, Nicosia's
>
comments are important and right. For a
major writer of the 20th century
>
(something we here at the beat-l have known, but the mainstream is just
>
beginning to pick up on) not to have his papers treated in the most
>
aboveboard scholarly and academic manner (ie all of them kept together as
>
much as possible at an institute where scholars and others interested can
>
access them equally) is a crime against literature and against the readers
> of
the world.
to do so is a crime against the writer.
if i had even the slightest
suspicion
that notes, sketches, drafts, anything i'd written and not
willingly
offered to the public as a whole would be rummaged through
after
my death, i'd burn them before i kicked. we're living in a time
when,
especially in the u.s., everything is talked about, reported on,
analyzed
and exposed for everyone to look at under their cracked $2
microscopes.
it's unfortunate really; the self-deceptive reason for this
trend
seems to be a search for absolute truths, which is a waste of time
in
itself. the purpose, of course, lying in the need to divert attention
away
from oneself. everyone's fucked up, but no one wants anyone else to
think
that they are, but we all kind of know it anyway. it's bogus. while
the
scenario being discussed on the list isn't at the core of this trend,
it's
definitely related. you see these people all the time; professors,
critics,
etc. riding out their lives on the coattails of prominent
figures,
artistic or otherwise. not all devotees to historic or modern
figures
are like this; it's when the putrid scent of an over-developed
ego
accompanies their pursuits that it becomes a turn-off.
and, on a hypocritical note, regarding
this whole argument... what
of the
things other people have to say about/to you? so what if someone
slanders
you? take it in stride and shrug it off like so many
mosquitoes.
i, and others i'm sure, being a newcomer to the list am
turned-off
by bogus bickering, but expected its presence before i signed
on.
every newsgroup, every list, everyplace/thing everywhere is to some
degree
tainted by it. you can't purge it. there'll always be someone that's
disgusted
by you and/or your ideas and urinates all over you, someone who
becomes
infatuated with you, your ideas, and drools all over you, and
people
who are everywhere in between. sick of it? change yourself, just 2
or
three degrees... you'll be amazed at how the world seems to pull a
full
180...
anyway, that's my rant.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 11:29:19 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Olly Ruff
<or205@HERMES.CAM.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: no subject
In-Reply-To: <970601014308_-1028282744@emout01.mail.aol.com>
On Sun,
1 Jun 1997, Dixon Edmiston wrote:
>
test of scuttling claws from Altoona-test only
>
Now,
you can shoot me down in flames if I'm on a wrong'n here, but I think
that's
pretty damn beat.
:),
Olly
R.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 06:05:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and
Why?
Timothy
K. Gallaher wrote:
i think
i've said this before. so i probably
shouldn't say it. i'll
try to
learn to do the one hand clap after this one.
it
seems much more important to me (and i would guess to many
non-scholars)
for as much of the non-published materials of Jack
Kerouac's
to be published.
i don't
know that the archive is a hindrance to this or not. it just
seems
the priority would be publication for the larger readership - not
limitation
to scholars.
by the
way, gerry nicosia's biography Memory Babe gets better with every
page. there are some lines in there in between all
the kerouac analysis
that
speak to the human condition in brilliant ways. off hand i recall
one
concerning choices very early in the book that i thought was a spark
of real
truth.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
(i
recall i volunteered for the Devil role in this)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 06:07:00 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and
Why?
Paul
Maher wrote:
>
>
>Delusional as usual Mr. Nicosia..........I haven't posted anything to or
> about
your sorry ass in a week....
this
ain't close to the strike zone.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 11:25:54 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: McClure a poetry.
In-Reply-To:
<l03020901afb638305758@[141.224.144.84]>
Dark Brown by Michael McClure
"Oh Ease Oh Body-Strain Oh Love Oh Ease Me Not!
Wound-Bore"
be real, show organs, show, blood, OH
let me
be as a flower. Let ugliness arise
without care
grow side by side with beauty. Oh
twist
be real to me. Fly smoke! Meat-real,
as nerves
TENDON
Ion, FLAME, Muscle, not banners but
bulks as
we are all 'deer'
and move as beasts. Stalking in our
forest
as these are speech-words
Burn them pure as above they rise from
attitude are
stultified. Are shit. Burn
what arises from habit. Let custom
die. Smash patterns and forms let
spirit
free to blasting liberty. Smash the
habit shit above!!!!!!!!!
LET PURE BLACK WORDS MOVE FROM THOUGHT
BEHIND
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 06:29:56 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Jerry C.
Mailer-daemon@aol.com
wrote:
>
>
The mail you sent could not be delivered to:
>
550 bigsur4me@aol.com is not a known user
>
>
The text you sent follows:
>
>
>From race@midusa.net Sun Jun 1 07:22:04 1997
>
Return-Path: <race@midusa.net>
>
Received: from services.midusa.net (ns.midusa.net [206.28.168.21])
> by emin41.mail.aol.com
(8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0)
> with ESMTP id HAA21834 for
<Bigsur4me@aol.com>;
> Sun, 1 Jun 1997 07:22:03 -0400
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>
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Jun 1997 06:10:54 -0500 (CDT)
>
Message-ID: <33915B05.501B@midusa.net>
>
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 06:20:37 -0500
>
From: RACE --- <race@midusa.net>
>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I)
>
MIME-Version: 1.0
>
To: Bigsur4me@aol.com
>
Subject: Re: Calling Dirk Vulgate
>
References: <970601034245_149919081@emout19.mail.aol.com>
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>
Jerry Cimino wrote:
>
>
>
> Dirk,
>
>
>
> I do not believe you are a real person.
Please e-mail me privately with
your
>
> phone number so I can call you and we can talk like gentlemen - no
shouting,
>
> I promise!
>
>
>
> Jerry Cimino
>
>
what is it now people have to authenticate their personality through you
>
before contributing to discussions.
that doesn't make much sense to
>
me. i could understand if the
listoperator found a reason that the
>
information might need to be provided - but it doesn't seem to be any of
>
your business.
>
>
david rhaesa
>
500 e. crawford st. #23
>
salina, Kanas
>
67401
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 06:45:53 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Burroughs collection
MORE
OXY THAN MORON wrote:
>
> In
case anyone is interested (for future reference), the special collections
>
dept at Ohio State now has the biggest collection of Burroughs material in the
>
US. James Grauerholtz, secretary to WSB is in town, dropping off a truckload
of
>
boxes (Maya, very little to do with anthropology). We had dinner last night
>
along with John Giorno, David Ohle and John Geiger who is working on a
>
biography of Brion Gysin. WSB is doing fine at the moment, John Giorno is
>
slated to be in Louiseville this September (did you get him to come Ron?) and
> is
a great performer if you have never seen him. Finally, the Burroughs
>
collection should be available for use as soon as it is cataloged and sorted
>
which might take 2 or three more months (at least).
>
>
Dave B.
Will
somebody please list when the Collection becomes available. Also
what
will the access rules be etc. etc. etc.
I imagine that isn't all
ironed
out yet. But when it is, I would be
interested and i imagine
that
some others here would be as well.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 15:10:07 BST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Harberd
<T.E.Harberd@UEA.AC.UK>
Subject: The Continuing Death of Beat-L
Once
upon a time (and a very nice time it was as well),
there
was a place called "Beat-L", a magical place where all
sorts
of people chatted in a friendly manner about anything
that
came into their heads, and generally sha-boped. But
then
came a lot of nasty children (or they might have
already
been there, hidden) who started screaming at each
other.
"You're
an arsehole."
"No,
you're an arsehole."
"I
said it first."
"Fuck
you."
And so
on.
Soon,
the wiser members of Beat-L packed their backs and
headed
off onto the highway, leaving these little kids to
bicker
amongst themselves. Kids because they
didn't have
the
sense to realise the complete futility of their juvenile
slanging
matches.
Now
hey, I don't know the details.
Why? Becuase for the
past
couple of months I've been systematically deleting
anything
coming into my mailbox even remotely to do with
this
Kerouac archives thing. I'm not saying
that it's not
important. But the way in which you are going about
"discussing"
it is really pissing me off. If you
have to
slag
each other off, take it private. 'Cos I
don't think
most
people out here wanna here it. We wanna
hear cool
stuff,
beat stuff, literary stuff, life stuff, not this
poisionus
psedo-libelous rhetorical shit which you insist on
posting.
Get
your act together.
I'll be
leaving the list soon, partly because it's annoying
me, and
partly because I'm going home for a holiday, but I
doubt
I'll be back. It's been a cool year
mostly. But I
don't
appreciate being caught in the middle of a pointless
word
war that has nothing to do with me. I'm
actually
astonished
that so-called-"Adults" can act this way.
Tom.
http://ww.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 10:14:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Czarnecki
<peent@SERVTECH.COM>
Subject: Re: Bill gargon help
>Bill,
I like a good argument but this isn't good where people get to say
>crap,
disquise the own words as gn's.
>p (
of course list father is not a position i really want any one in but
>as
list mother i would like more intellectual meat and less beatting the
>meat.
I've
pretty much stayed away from commenting on the estate hullabaloo but I
have to
say I agree with you. The post by PM that added on words to GN's
without
any clarification were very misleading and bothered me very much.
If I
had just recently signed on and read that without knowing much of the
background
and personalities I could easily have taken them to be GN's own
words.
I hate rules and limits, feel people should be trusted to follow
their
own nature and that should be ok, but boy, this sure seems to be
pushing
bounds of civility or something. Guess it says a lot about the
person
posting.
Michael
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 11:32:58 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Paul Maher
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Paul Mayer
At
04:02 AM 6/1/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Christ,
Paul, you are one sick puppy.
>
>E-mail
me your address and I'll send you $100 so you can go see a shrink!
>
>
>
>Jerry
>If
being a "sick puppy" means not being subjugated to Gerry Nicosia's
thought
process I will take the hundred dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 08:21:37 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Bill gargon help
R.
Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
>
Patricia Elliott wrote:
>
>
> Bill, I like a good argument but this isn't good where people get to
>
> say
>
> crap, disquise the own words as gn's.
>
> p ( of course list father is not a position i really want any one in
>
> but
>
> as list mother i would like more intellectual meat and less beatting
>
> the
>
> meat.
>
> Patricia:
>
>
Thank you and LOL.
>
>
Bill,
>
>
Please remind those who continue the personal attacks that this is not
>
approriate.
>
>
Thanks.
>
> --
>
Bentz
>
bocelts@scsn.net
>
>
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
I think
it is to Bill Gargan's credit that he has not stepped in to
protect
either side in this debate, only asked for civility, which both
sides
have had trouble with.
There
have been some wonderful pleas to Mr. Nicosia the last few days to
hold
his fire or pick his punches. Mssrs
Chaput, Maher, and Vulgate
should
also take these admonissions to heart.
Todays postings from this
side
have been primarily abusive, simple-minded and non productive.
This
thing has run it's course. When the
courts have ruled there may be
new
material for discussion, but we aren't learning anything new from
either
side at the moment. Everbody in this
thing is losing respect and
credibility. Maybe both sides--Nicosia, Grant, Cimino
etc, Maher,
Chaput,
the mysterious Dr. Vulgate and others could just cool their
jets.
(I don't mention Mr. Anastee because he has been silent for some
time
and is clearly not Mr or Mrs. Vulgate) This list has no legal power
to
change anything. If another biography
of JK appears we can all make
our own
evaluation of how it compares with Mr. Nicosia's.
Maybe
we can get this thing to die out without litigation or calling for
Bill
Gargan to excommunicate anyone.
J
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 10:20:56 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Paul Mayer
Paul
Maher wrote:
>
> At
04:02 AM 6/1/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Christ, Paul, you are one sick puppy.
>
>
>
>E-mail me your address and I'll send you $100 so you can go see a shrink!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Jerry
>
>If being a "sick puppy" means not being subjugated to Gerry
Nicosia's
>
thought process I will take the hundred dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It
seems fairly easy to avoid this subjugation.
It is a complex
philosophy
called "No Bait!". Nicosia's
rhetorical process to this
point
has been 90% or more counter-punching.
If you don't punch, he may
fall
silent. Or he may as many hope
contribute to the unending
conversation
of beatifitudinalistic insight on non-estate matters.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 11:38:23 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: WRB on WWW
Dear
Beat-L members:
Our new
Water Row Books website is located at:
http://www.waterrowbooks.com
See you
there -
Jeffrey
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 11:51:04 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Jerry C.
You
miss the point, Race, about this Dirk Vulgate "person".
Dirk
Vulgate is a figment of someone's imagination.
He won't reveal who he
is
because he's a phantom created recently to bolster Nicosia's detractors to
make it
appear there are more people out there who think he's a megalomaniac.
Would
it be legitimate, Race, for me to go and create additional screen names
and
start posting my ideas under different ID's?
And maybe after that I
could
go to my wife's computer where she has 3 different ISP's and post a few
more!
As I
recall Dirk Vulgate said he was only going to post "one time" and of
course
he came back. The same way Paul Maher
said he was going to
unsubscribe
but never did. Kinda makes you wonder!
REMEMBER: The issue is the Archives. Look at how Paul has gotten everyone
off
topic again, the same way Chaput did with his venomous antics two days
ago!
Jerry
C.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 11:51:07 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Bill gargon help
In-Reply-To: Message of Sun, 1 Jun 1997 00:42:15 -0500
from
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
So
would I, Patricia. I'm doing my best to
cool this whole thing down and I wi
ll
enforce the guidelines I put forth last week.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 10:58:28 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Jerry C.
Jerry
Cimino wrote:
>
>
You miss the point, Race, about this Dirk Vulgate "person".
>
>
Dirk Vulgate is a figment of someone's imagination. He won't reveal who he
> is
because he's a phantom created recently to bolster Nicosia's detractors to
>
make it appear there are more people out there who think he's a megalomaniac.
>
>
Would it be legitimate, Race, for me to go and create additional screen names
>
and start posting my ideas under different ID's? And maybe after that I
>
could go to my wife's computer where she has 3 different ISP's and post a few
>
more!
i don't
see why that would matter. the number
of voices saying stupid
things
doesn't make them less stupid.
>
> As
I recall Dirk Vulgate said he was only going to post "one time" and
of
>
course he came back. The same way Paul
Maher said he was going to
>
unsubscribe but never did. Kinda makes
you wonder!
doesn't
make me wonder. they obviously changed
their minds. i've told
myself
i would stop posting or even reading this stuff, but i've often
changed
my mind. it's my option and theirs i
suppose.
i think
you missed my point that the person's identity is NONE OF YOUR
BUSINESS!!!!!!!
>
>
REMEMBER: The issue is the
Archives. Look at how Paul has gotten
everyone
>
off topic again, the same way Chaput did with his venomous antics two days
>
ago!
>
Yeah
Yeah Yeah. The continuing chorus of
"The ISSUE if the ARCHIVES."
The
more you say that the more i'm convinced that there are other
issues. obviously issues of personal property rights
(which I've been
told
don't matter). also the issue of
publishing previously unpublished
materials. And the Archives are not even an ISSUE with
regards to
anyone
here until such day as a Court releases the control of the
literary
estate from Sampas (a man i doubt i'll ever meet) to Mr.
Nicosia
(another man i doubt i'll ever meet).
until that point it seems
we're
all just pissing in the wind.
i'm
going to watch a Bronson movie instead.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
>
Jerry C.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:24:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Paul Maher
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Jerry C.
At
11:51 AM 6/1/97 -0400, you wrote:
>You
miss the point, Race, about this Dirk Vulgate "person".
>
>Dirk
Vulgate is a figment of someone's imagination.
He won't reveal who he
>is
because he's a phantom created recently to bolster Nicosia's detractors to
>make
it appear there are more people out there who think he's a megalomaniac.
>
>Would
it be legitimate, Race, for me to go and create additional screen names
>and
start posting my ideas under different ID's?
And maybe after that I
>could
go to my wife's computer where she has 3 different ISP's and post a few
>more!
>
>As
I recall Dirk Vulgate said he was only going to post "one time" and
of
>course
he came back. The same way Paul Maher
said he was going to
>unsubscribe
but never did. Kinda makes you wonder!
>
>REMEMBER: The issue is the Archives. Look at how Paul has gotten everyone
>off
topic again, the same way Chaput did with his venomous antics two days
>ago!
>
>
>Jerry
C.
>No
you do not understand...the archives are not my worry. I know they are
in
good, competent hands. Paul....
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:27:38 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Paul Maher
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: a different thread
No more
will I mention a thing...
How do
people feel about Part 3 of Visions of Cody? "Frisco: The Tape":
Does it
add or detract from the book? I feel that Kerouac's writing in the
first
two parts, the realization of his spontaneous prose method, is pure,
driven
genius. The addition of tape transcripts however changes the focus of
the
vision of Cody.....but I don't know if it gives him any new
dimension...Any
takes on this?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 18:15:53 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: a question:jack kerouac bio written by
Gerald Nicosia
points
first:
there's an italian language translation of the
book written by Gerald Nicosia 'bout
the JK life
& works? anyone can tell
something?
second:in
angst for the hot shift of the posts from word
to word, but i'm a real beet (sic!)
& i do not understand
why people leaves the B-List.
Yessir,
Jack Kerouac
"Let's go.
Where are we going, man?
I don't know, but we gotta go".
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:23:21 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Civil Discourse
It
appears that the recent guidelines on civil discourse have been
ignored
by a number of listmembers. I have
begun blocking people who
violate
those guidelines from posting to the list.
I will continue to
do so,
usually after a warning.There have been several messages from
listmembers
complaining about the volume of mail on the list as of late.
I am
looking into possible changes in the listserv profile which will
both
reduce the volume of mail and encourage those whose replies are
primarily
intended for for the sender to communicatedirectly. Thank you
all for
your patience. I hope we can discuss
the lives and works of the
Beat
Generation in an atmosphere or mutual respect and civility.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:37:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "William H. Rose, III"
<schpill@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: a different thread
Paul
Maher wrote:
>
> No
more will I mention a thing...
>
>
How do people feel about Part 3 of Visions of Cody? "Frisco: The
Tape":
>
Does it add or detract from the book? I feel that Kerouac's writing in the
>
first two parts, the realization of his spontaneous prose method, is pure,
>
driven genius. The addition of tape transcripts however changes the focus of
>
the vision of Cody.....but I don't know if it gives him any new
>
dimension...Any takes on this?
Paul,
When I first read "Visions of
Cody" the tape transcription
portion
had me a bit confused but after a second sitting I came to the
realization
that what we had here was the rare opportunity to
eavesdrop
on the actual day to day communications between Neal and Jack.
Granted,
they were usually "under the effect" of some substance or
another
but listening to the conversations they had, well, sort of a
"BEAT"
to it, don't you think?
Bill.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:50:31 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: no subject
Olly
Ruff wrote:
> On
Sun, 1 Jun 1997, Dixon Edmiston wrote:
>
>
> test of scuttling claws from Altoona-test only
>
>
>
>
Now, you can shoot me down in flames if I'm on a wrong'n here, but I
>
think
>
that's pretty damn beat.
>
> :),
>
> Olly
R.
I should have been a pair of ragged claws
Scuttling
across the floors of silent seas.
TS
Eliot
Love
Song of JAP
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:58:10 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: Jerry C.
RACE
--- wrote:
>
Mailer-daemon@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
> The mail you sent could not be delivered to:
>
> 550 bigsur4me@aol.com is not a known user
>
>
>
> The text you sent follows:
>
>
>
> >From race@midusa.net Sun
Jun 1 07:22:04 1997
>
> Return-Path: <race@midusa.net>
>
> Received: from services.midusa.net (ns.midusa.net [206.28.168.21])
>
> by emin41.mail.aol.com
(8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0)
>
> with ESMTP id HAA21834
for <Bigsur4me@aol.com>;
>
> Sun, 1 Jun 1997 07:22:03
-0400 (EDT)
>
> Received: from services.midusa.net (node48.salina.midusa.net
>
[206.28.169.48])
>
> by services.midusa.net
(8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA12871
>
> for
<Bigsur4me@aol.com>; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 06:10:54 -0500
>
(CDT)
>
> Message-ID: <33915B05.501B@midusa.net>
>
> Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 06:20:37 -0500
>
> From: RACE --- <race@midusa.net>
>
> X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I)
>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
>
> To: Bigsur4me@aol.com
>
> Subject: Re: Calling Dirk Vulgate
>
> References: <970601034245_149919081@emout19.mail.aol.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>
>
> Jerry Cimino wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Dirk,
>
> >
>
> > I do not believe you are a real person. Please e-mail me
>
privately with
> your
>
> > phone number so I can call you and we can talk like gentlemen - no
>
shouting,
>
> > I promise!
>
> >
>
> > Jerry Cimino
>
>
>
> what is it now people have to authenticate their personality through
> you
>
> before contributing to discussions.
that doesn't make much sense to
>
>
> me. i could understand if the
listoperator found a reason that the
>
> information might need to be provided - but it doesn't seem to be
>
any of
>
> your business.
> >
>
> david rhaesa
>
> 500 e. crawford st. #23
>
> salina, Kanas
>
> 67401
David:
David:
I am
just guessing, but there are some members on aol who have been
agressive
in their attacks on Gerry. I am
guessing that Jerry C. thinks
that
someone on aol to attack Gerry, possibly outside the rules of the
list
and without their identity being known.
At least that is what I
suspected
anyway. So I read Jerry's post to say,
stop attacking from
behind
fake screen names. Could be wrong
though. Only Jerry can say
for
sure.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:08:15 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Malcolm Lawrence
<Malcolm@WOLFENET.COM>
Subject: Every who?
>Every
whore has her reasons
This is
odd. I've always heard this expression as "everyone has their
reasons,"
which is a lot more terrifying/interesting to
my ears.
Malcs
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:20:21 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Malcolm Lawrence
<Malcolm@WOLFENET.COM>
Subject: HOW many subscribers?
>As
of this moment (9:36am EDT, May 30) there are 248 subscribers to
>beat-l.
>
>fred
There
were this many back when Ginsberg died, but according to my most
current
"receipt":
Your
message dated Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:08:15 -0700 with subject "Every
who?"
has
been successfully distributed to the BEAT-L list (178 recipients).
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 15:11:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: Bill gargon help
Comments:
To: stauffer@pacbell.net
James
Stauffer wrote:
> I
think it is to Bill Gargan's credit that he has not stepped in to
>
protect either side in this debate, only asked for civility, which
>
both
>
sides have had trouble with.
>
>
There have been some wonderful pleas to Mr. Nicosia the last few days
> to
>
hold his fire or pick his punches.
Mssrs Chaput, Maher, and Vulgate
>
should also take these admonissions to heart.
Todays postings from
>
this
>
side have been primarily abusive, simple-minded and non productive.
>
>
This thing has run it's course. When
the courts have ruled there may
> be
>
new material for discussion, but we aren't learning anything new from
>
either side at the moment. Everbody in
this thing is losing respect
>
and
>
credibility. Maybe both sides--Nicosia,
Grant, Cimino etc, Maher,
>
Chaput, the mysterious Dr. Vulgate and others could just cool their
>
jets. (I don't mention Mr. Anastee because he has been silent for some
>
>
time and is clearly not Mr or Mrs. Vulgate) This list has no legal
>
power
> to
change anything. If another biography
of JK appears we can all
>
make
>
our own evaluation of how it compares with Mr. Nicosia's.
>
>
Maybe we can get this thing to die out without litigation or calling
>
for
>
Bill Gargan to excommunicate anyone.
>
> J
Stauffer
Here
here, I second the remarks by the Honorable J Stauffer.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:18:59 -0600
Reply-To: stand666@bitstream.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: R&R Houff
<stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>
Subject: Minneapolis and the Beats
Hello
Antoine,
Yes, I
still play a lot of slide but am able to fret. I am primarily,
a
finger-stylist and improv in Open tunings. It's a painful process
of much
bone cracking and hand soaks with massage/pressure point
relief
on a daily basis. When I was a kid, I was eaves- dropping on a
conversation
between Lightning Hopkins and another fellow and he said,
"If
you don't feel pain, you must be dead." I don't think that I've
met
John Hasbrouck unless on a chance through Luther Allison. I used
to
fish with Luther when he was on the
Delmark label. Once in awhile
he
would show-up with other folks from Chi who liked to fish bluegills
and
cats. I never layed the harp down and I love amping it=97try to catch
that
Little Walter sound=97still trying!
Richard
Houff
Pariah
Press
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 15:38:35 -0400
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From: Dixon Edmiston <DIXCIN@AOL.COM>
Subject: Dr. Destouches
I'm new
so I don't know if this has been hashed over before (pun intended),
but
where does Celine fit in with the beats? Did he not influence JK and AG
and WSB
to some extent? Just curious.
Celine describing writers and journalists who
boast of having abolished war:
"They've never fucked, bucked,
hustled, muscled a damn thing! those
be-peacocked
parakeets, not the least butt or babe, the least complicament,
never
unfinagled, discombobbled the weakest mitigated litigation! Not a
thing!
Never! short-sighted sleazes! Pencil-necked shitslingers!
The fuming, destructing Furies of War
scoff at your woggish emotings to
the
ends of hell! your silent, anathematic farting.
You cowardly, shit-scared gropers! I'm enfulminating I admit! I'm
moiling!
I'm boiling! I'm humbugging my wig! I'm fuguing! I'm shrieking! I'm
breathless!
I'm belching roiling vapors! I don't give a fitting fuck
anymore."
Whew!
Well maybe not in contents but how about the style? Any comments?
Thanks!
Dix
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 15:49:55 -0400
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Bill
Bill:
I am
trying to back channel you. Please send
me your email address. It
keeps
bouncing right now.
Thanks.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:47:00 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: runner911
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: HOW many subscribers?
In-Reply-To: <01BC6E86.314AF400@sea-ts1-p70.wolfenet.com>
At
12:20 PM -0700 6/1/97, Malcolm Lawrence wrote:
>
>As of this moment (9:36am EDT, May 30) there are 248 subscribers to
>
>beat-l.
>
Your message dated Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:08:15 -0700 with subject "Every
who?"
>
has been successfully distributed to the BEAT-L list (178 recipients).
Well, I
guess the 50 or so messages I received saying this list was shit
(or
arguing about shit) did its job! Keep
up the good work!
Douglas
<who appreciates the content and thought this list seems to embody>
'oh are
you listening to me?
lilac
wine, gently floating...
will
they miss me? lilac wine...
oh,
this is so infuriating
lilac
wine..., I'm so heavy
lilac
wine..., mississippi'
-----(mourning jeff buckley
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 17:08:45 -0400
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From: "Dawn B. Sova"
<DawnDR@AOL.COM>
Subject: Review
Review-L
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 18:41:43 -0400
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: a different thread
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970601162738.006dacec@pop.pipeline.com>
>No
more will I mention a thing...
>
>How
do people feel about Part 3 of Visions of Cody? "Frisco: The Tape":
>Does
it add or detract from the book? I feel that Kerouac's writing in the
>first
two parts, the realization of his spontaneous prose method, is pure,
>driven
genius. The addition of tape transcripts however changes the focus of
>the
vision of Cody.....but I don't know if it gives him any new
>dimension...Any
takes on this?
@@@@@@
i
rather like them, for many reasons, but mostly for enhancing the
meta-reality
of the experience, i equally enjoy the film takes (?arg, cant
find my
copy of book: jane rashanks' or something
), endlessly redoing
that
little bit of celluoid. in fact adds dimension as Jk using some of the
form of
literal recordings of actual events lends backdrop to the zanier
and
more IT forms of experience, that often it was a coupla guys with a
coupla
bottles, dope, bennies, what all, slugging it out for succession of
nights.
i sure know i'be been in such situations my self, and then pulled
back a
bit to see the inside/outside out, figure/ground etc
off i
go..
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 18:35:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: www link page
Well, I
have finally begun to work on my web link page. I have added a
page
from Stanford on Fair Use and Copyright if anyone is interested.
I also
have added some book store sites. If
you have a "beat" site, or
a book
store site, email me back channel and I will try to work your
site
in.
Thanks,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 18:43:41 -0400
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: a question:jack kerouac bio written
by Gerald Nicosia
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19970601181553.00c10124@pop.gpnet.it>
>second:in
angst for the hot shift of the posts from word
> to word, but i'm a real beet (sic!)
& i do not understand
> why people leaves the B-List.
> *****
rinaldo
your sweet words are so often a balm to sorely tried temper.
glad
you are staying.
mc.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 18:42:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: HOW many subscribers?
Before
making any judgements I'd suggest we wait and see an "official"
response
as to how many subscribers are on the list today. For whatever
reason
it appears the LISTSERVE receipt does not reflect the true number of
people
subscribed.
A week
ago I mentioned how the listserve receipt reflected 186 people. The
next
day Fred Bogin said in reality it was 248 as of that moment in time.
Using that as a benchmark I'd guess we're
right around 240 today. I do not
believe
50 people have unsubbed in the last week and a half.
Jerry
Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 19:05:12 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Paul Maher <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Visions of Cody book discussion
>i
rather like them, for many reasons, but mostly for enhancing the
>meta-reality
of the experience, i equally enjoy the film takes (?arg, cant
>find
my copy of book: jane rashanks' or something
), endlessly redoing
>that
little bit of celluoid. in fact adds dimension as Jk using some of the
>form
of literal recordings of actual events lends backdrop to the zanier
>and
more IT forms of experience, that often it was a coupla guys with a
>coupla
bottles, dope, bennies, what all, slugging it out for succession of
>nights.
i sure know i'be been in such situations my self, and then pulled
>back
a bit to see the inside/outside out, figure/ground etc
>off
i go..
>
Yes...very
perceptive. I think the variety of mind sensations is reflected
throughout.
From what I heard...the tapes are verbatim transcription but
seem to
be lost somewhere as a real, primary source to see just how Jack was
working
this into the novel.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 18:52:32 -0400
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From: Carl A Biancucci
<carl@WORLD.STD.COM>
Subject: Gordon Legg
In-Reply-To:
<970601115103_-663501142@emout01.mail.aol.com> from "Jerry
Cimino" at Jun 1, 97
11:51:04 am
WARNING:No
estate battle text or insults enclosed.
Jeffrey
mentioned a UK writer named Gordon Legg to me about a month
ago.
Do any
of you good folks know of him/his work?
(is he
still with us?)
Also,what
is the Merlin Circle?
Looking
forward to hearing from you
AND for
the return of list civilty.
(thanks,Bill
G.for stepping in)
- Carl
-
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 19:07:52 -0400
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: new poem
Here is
a new poem that I am starting right now at 6:50 pm edt.
Park
Sun,
shade, bandstand, waterfall, and pond,
I
should be at work,
But, I
am not.
I walk
past worshippers of RA,
Past
frisbee flingers and receivers,
Past
the same woman on roller blades,
And
around the large gold fish pond.
The
Government employees lounge
In all
the best shade spots.
Exploration
leads round and round
Till
suddenly, a sacred grove
Beneath
lotus trees I sit.
A young
woman reads Joyce neath the falling water.
I sit
and the quietness
Moves
out from my soul in ripples.
The
journey continues on.
A large
woman exercises,
Stretching
large flesh.
A young
woman tumbles for her children
Perfectly
aligned cart wheels, some one handed,
Round
offs, beautiful symetry.
I
return past school children and teachers,
And
pecking orders,
And who
you are by who likes you,
Past
the woman on roller blades again,
And
then, I see them.
Perfect,
and out of darkness,
Golden
neath the dark murky water,
Graceful
as the delight at this sight,
Overwhelms
my adult.
My
child comes out to watch these
Golden
treasures, swimming round the pond.
Ahhh,
blisssss is child like,
beatific
in its return to innocence.
Bliss
is here among the lounging park employees.
Bliss
is in the attractive woman reading at the falls.
Bliss
is in the fat women stretching at the rails.
Bliss
is in the gymnast tumbling cross the fields.
Bliss
is in the young women sunning on the grass.
Bliss
is in the young men chasing frisbee trying to catch their eyes.
Bliss
is in the loving couple lying in the shade.
Bliss
is in the school children running cross the grounds.
Bliss
is in the woman roller blading round and round and round.
Bliss
is in the goldfish cruising in and out of light.
Bliss
is in my heart where I hold this wonderous sight.
Finished
at 7:15 edt.
First
draft out of head and into beat l.
Bentz
Kirby
June 1,
1997
Columbia,
SC
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw