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Date:         Sun, 8 Jun 1997 23:55:07 -0600

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From:         R&R Houff <stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>

Subject:      Summer of love

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CALIFORNIA DREAMING

(summer of love, 30th anniversary poem: 1967-'97)

 

Mangled names roll

over & over

trivial mind-

scapes

 

The initiates

of water & sun

learning to forget

how too forget

 

because nothing

is just that

anyway

 

Richard Houff

Pariah Press

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Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 00:57:31 -0400

Reply-To:     Leitha Sackmann <lsackma@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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Hello all.  I thought, what the hell, the list is getting slow so i thought

i'd post the paper that i wrote for my ind. study on the beats.  Would love

to hear comments/criticizms from you all.  i think this paper will never

really be finished, so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks

a bunch!

 

Derek, it's great to see you back!

 

Howard, I got the Cd, but i lost your address, please email me so i can send

you my comments.        =20

as ever,

        matt                                      =20

 

 

 

 

                                        Finding America=92s Beat

 

 

 

                                A Personal Essay=20

                                  by Matthew S. Sackmann

=20

 

        When I started this paper, it was intended to be an objective piece

discussing the Beats and their respective relations with America.  Little

did I know that this was an impossible task.  To write an objective piece on

America and on the Beats is to lose the true spirit of both of these ideas.

At first, I wanted to keep my own memories of America out of this; I wanted

to keep the =93I=94 out of this, as any serious writer does, but I could not=

 do

that to America nor to myself because, for me, America is a mix of my

memories and every other American=92s memories.  If these are separated, you

are taking the very essence of America out of the paper.  So what began as

an objective, impersonal paper has become a personal poem for this country.

It=92s become a Call to Arms for Americans to stand up and acknowledge the

corruption that America has undergone at the hands of the evil, mechanistic,

materialistic Moloch America.  Once again a time has come for Americans to

fight for freedom, but now the enemy is within.  So what follows may be

regarded as a song:=20

                       A song of America

                                         A song by America

                                                                A song for America.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

=93I wonder what the poor people are doing.=94

The sound of my father=92s voice would echo from the cabin of the Winnebago

during those wonderful childhood voyages across this great nation.  To me,

that was the most beautiful statement I=92ve ever heard.  When I heard that=

 I

knew everything was going to be okay.  That statement brings tears to my

eyes now.  At twenty years old the time for family vacations is long over,

but my time on the road is really just beginning.  I was raised in a poor

family that had to scrimp just to save enough money to hit the road for a

couple of weeks every year.  We had no luxuries on vacations either.  Never

once did we take an airplane anywhere, we always slept in the camper or in

the VW bus, it was very rare for my parents to buy us gift-shop presents,

and we never ate out, always eating homemade sandwiches, but in my mind, in

our minds, we were the richest people in America.  Not once did I feel like

a tourist in America; wherever I went, I was a native. =20

        I was brought up on the road.  Well, not really, but all of my childhood

memories seem to revolve around family vacations.  Everyone else=92s=

 memories

revolve around their homes, but not mine.  At last count I=92ve been to

forty-seven of our wonderful fifty states.  I=92ve really seen this

country=97the good and the bad.  My relationship with America is a love/hate

relationship.  I just wish I had really appreciated the vacations more.

There was so much to learn.  America had so much to tell me.  But now my

ears are open and I=92m ready to listen to her song.  I really think the=

 road

is in my soul=97I get antsy when I stay in one place too long.  That=92s my=

 big

problem with college.  It was so easy to take weeks off in elementary school

to go find America; sometimes really nice teachers, really good teachers,

wouldn=92t even have me make up work, instead they=92d have me write about=

 my

experiences on the road.  But now--yuck--most teachers in college are

unwilling to bend the rules, and so I=92m left with a feeling of=

 imprisonment.

That=92s where my boy Jack comes in the picture.  Without Jack Kerouac I=

 would

have dropped out of college a long time ago. =20

 You might say=97=93What?  Jack Kerouac kept you in college?  I thought them

Beat people make all kids want to drop out.=94  Nope, not me.  When I=92m=

 not

physically on the road my soul can always escape with Jack and Neal.

        =93America, I=92ve given you all and now I=92m nothing=94 (Howl 32).  This=

 is

exactly how I feel sometimes, but it isn=92t really =93nothing,=94 my self=

 becomes

nothing because I become America.  There=92s something about many places in

America that make you lose yourself.  Down here in New Orleans, the humidity

blends into your skin and you can no longer feel a separation between

yourself and your environment.  You just blend into the air.  And places

like the Grand Canyon, Mesa Verde, Yellowstone, and others=97places where

nature is so sublime and magnificent that you lose all feeling of your small

body and you become the landscape.  One must put everything they have into

America.  The result is that outsiders may think you are nothing, but

really=97=93It occurs to me that I am America.=94

        There is a strange duality in America between the native and the

frontiersman=97we need both.  A native who is always home and a frontiersman

who is always looking for a new home.  We must reconcile these two aspects

of America.  This is what the beats did=97this is what I do.  We must have=

 the

frontier spirit and search for America, but at the same time we must also

realize that the real America is found in the searching.  The Great Spirit

of the Native Americans seems to be nothing more than America herself, and

Gary Snyder and I believe that we are all Native Americans, we just need to

open up to the native within us all.

        I remember driving through Idaho, following a river weaving through the

American hills on little Highway 12.  It was the same trail that Lewis and

Clark took when they first discovered America and there I was rediscovering

America.

        An America that has forsaken its national bird=97its national symbol.  The

American Eagle, so rare a sight, but if you ever see it your faith in

America will be restored.  The American Eagle that must =93really spread its

wings and straighten up and fly right=94 (Coney Island 49).  The eagle now

only found in Alaska or=20

 maybe, if you=92re lucky, on the sides of semis racing across the country.

The first time I ever saw an uncaged Bald Eagle, I knew that I =93must be

entering the real America, all that=92s left of the original America=94 (My

Life).  My journal contains numerous references to the American Eagle: =93An=

d

the Eagle is so gorgeous and wonderful when it flies & peaceful when it

soars & strong and mighty looking when it=92s perched & it=92s no wonder=

 that

it=92s our national bird.  If only more people could see and remember this.=

=94

        An America whose duality is further emphasized by its national river=97the

Mighty Muddy Mississippi.  East versus West.  The West symbolizing

everything beautiful in America.  The constant race against the sun in an

attempt to find a world uncorrupted by wealth and free from time unlike the

East.

        An America whose beautiful history is destroyed by classrooms and boring

teachers.  America, in all her glory, is our only real classroom; when will

we get that through our thick skulls.  An America who loves field trips

across her body.  So many kids skipping classes because they really want to

learn=97really want to see=97really want to hear.  She has so much potential

still=97even with so much of her stripped away and bionic, the potential is

still there.

        America, there is still good in you, I can feel it, Moloch hasn=92t driven=

 it

from you fully.  America, you have become Darth Vader.  You are more machine

now than human.  It is time to throw Moloch down the shaft and take your

place as our mother once again.

        An America that nourished, and poisoned my idols.  America, you are my=

 idol.

        Jack=92s dead.  Is it true what Corso says, did you force him to drink,

America? (Corso 132).  You tore him apart, America, you and your

schizophrenia, appearing beautiful one day and ugly the next.  Jack could

not keep up with your facades, but that didn=92t keep him from loving you.

        Neal=92s dead.  The =93wild yea-saying ouburst of American joy,=94 who was=

 just

driven too fast in ecstasy by America and ran out of gas (On The Road 10).

        Now Allen.  I thought he hated you most, America, I was wrong=97He loved=

 you

despite your incessant coughing under the covers at night (Howl 20).

        America whose ideas are perfect, but actuality destroys our perfect

imagination.  Just look at the Declaration of Independence.  A =93Howl=94=

 for

freedom long before the infamous poem.

        America, I am waiting for you to fight back against all this =93progress.=

=94  I

am prepared for earthquakes, volcanoes, floods, storms, tornadoes.  I=92m

ready for anything.  I=92m ready for death, if it will make you beautiful=

 again.

        Boddisatva Jack who found America in his hero=97Dean Moriarty, Cody=

 Pomeray.

An America that would take him to IT, but would also leave him lying sick in

bed (On The Road).

        Jack brought back the beauty of America.  The Beauty left unacknowledged by

the Lost Generation, who ran away from America.  Ernest Hemingway says,

=93Let the others come to America who did not know that they had come too

late.  Our people had seen it at its best and fought for it when it was

worth fighting for.  Now I would go someplace else (Green Hills of Africa

285).=94  They were deceived by your artificial face, America, and couldn=92=

t

see the real you.  America, I don=92t agree with Hemingway or F. Scott

Fitzgerald.  I=92ve seen your =93fresh, green breast,=94 and I believe it is=

 still

worth fighting for.  Fitzgerald and Papa have obviously never been to

Alaska, or they too would have seen this potential.  As Ken Kesey describes

Alaska in Sailor=92s Song, =93Alaska is the end, the finale, the Last Ditch=

 of

the Pioneer Dream.  From Alaska there=92s no place left to go. . . . So it

came down to Alaska, the Final Frontier as far as this sick old ballgame

goes.  Top of the ninth . . .=94  Nothing could prepare me for my first

experience of Alaska.  I=92ve seen many beautiful places in America, but

Alaska blew them all away, and it was as if I was seeing Beauty for the

first time.    =20

        While the Lost Generation was busy putting America down, a small voice came

in her defense from Asheville, North Carolina.  Thomas Wolfe put America

back into literature.  Wolfe prophesized: =93I believe we are lost in=

 America,

but I do believe we will be found . . . I think the true discovery of

America is before us.  I think the true fulfillment of our spirit, of our

people, of our mighty and immortal land, is yet to come.=94  Jack writes=

 about

Thomas Wolfe: =93He just woke me up to America as a poem instead of America=

=20

 as a place to struggle around and sweat in.  Mainly this dark-eyed American

poet made me want to prowl, and roam, and see the real America that was

there and that had never been uttered.=94  And these exact words could

perfectly describe what Kerouac did for me.

        Jack did not write his novels, America wrote his novels.  All Jack had to

do was listen and transcribe America=92s song.  Gregory Corso knew this=

 well:

=93Was not so much our finding America as it was America finding its voice=

 in

us=94 (Corso 126).

        America needs to be changed from the inside and that is a very hard

endeavor to ask of anyone.  To go inside Moloch itself and risk losing

yourself to it in hope that you can unplug it and open its eyes to its

beautiful natural state.  So hard to do this because it is so much easier to

shut the door and turn one=92s back on Moloch.  So much easier to drop out=

 of

school, create one=92s own perfect microcosmos, and be free.  But one must

sacrifice one=92s personal freedom in order to make this country worthy of=

 the

premise of its Declaration.  Jack Kerouac could not do this.  He could not

live inside Moloch and help change it.  So he escaped on the road and in the

mountains, but he could not run away forever, and, face to face with Moloch

America, he resorted to the bottle.

        Allen Ginsberg really helped change Moloch.  He worked within the

institution, trying to disable the institution rather than running from it.

While Jack sings the song of America, Allen fights for America against the

evil mechanistic Moloch.  We need both of these people to save America:  one

to show how beautiful our country is and that it is worth fighting for, and

the other to fight for it and make this dream a reality.

        Douglas Brinkley has definitely taken Ginsberg=92s side.  He is changing

America by immersing himself in the Moloch that has darkened higher

education, and he is trying to show us how to discover America, how to

discover freedom: =93No matter how hard a teacher tries, freedom--to be=

 one=92s

own master, total and absolute--can not be taught in a classroom.  And so we

take to the open road=94 (Brinkley 502).  He describes his profession as=

 being

full of =93cynicism and narrowness,=94 but he doesn=92t run from this,=

 instead he=20

 attempts to destroy it by living within it with out cynicism or narrowness.

He believes that =93If we put our collective energy and capital and faith

behind our schools, we might get them=97and America=97back on track=94=

 (Brinkley

xv).  Through his Majic Bus classes students begin to really discover the

America in themselves and the America on the road.

        Sometimes I think it would be so much easier to turn my back and drop out

of school and become a bum and wander around this country, but the chances

of really being able to put this country back on track by doing that seem

rather slim so I am toughing it out, and I am actually able to remain happy

despite all the stupid classes I=92m required to take.  Because I know that=

 I

can do something for this country, I can help free all these Americans

trapped in Moloch=92s jaws.  I don=92t know what I=92d do if I didn=92t have=

 my

regular dose of Kerouac to keep me sane . . . or insane . . . or whatever .

. . but definitely free.

        =93Freedom=92s just another name for nothing left to lose,=94 sings Janis=

 Joplin.

Rock and Roll was born in the pages of the Beat Generation.  One can see the

similarities between the above quote and Jack Kerouac=92s =93Everything=

 belongs

to me because I am poor=94 (Visions of Cody 33).

        If only we had people with the guts to really get into the American

government and change it.  The government is indeed the scariest place for

free American=92s to venture.  It is so anti-America, but it is there where

this country can really be changed.  We need people like Jack and Bobby

Kennedy.  People really dedicated to making America live up to Thomas

Jefferson=92s great expectations.  I think Bill Clinton is a step in the=

 right

direction.  Although we always wish that the government would be changed

drastically, we must understand that this is impossible, and the only way to

change America is to go step by step as President Clinton is doing.

        William S. Burroughs says, =93Now that America has lost the Russians as an

enemy, I don=92t know what we=92ll do.  Without enemies, nations can=92t=

 exist=94

(Brinkley 209).  The great WSB is wrong here; America does have an enemy.

This enemy stares at us when we look in the mirror.  This enemy is the

mirror itself and Moloch is just a hideous funhouse reflection of America.

We must look in the mirror and=20

 realize that we are seeing the made-up America, the fake America.  An

America smeared with make-up, covered with clothes.  We must get the courage

to wipe off this fake face and take off this fake body and go out and really

face the world in all our natural glory:  =93America, when will you be

angelic?  When will you take off your clothes?=94 (Howl 31).  And that

=93strange American iron=94 that attempts to =93straighten and quell the=

 long

wavering spermy disorderliness of the boy=94 (Visions of Cody 48-9).  It=92s

high time that we peel off these pressed clothes.

        And how true was it when I told my brother: =93The Real America can only be

seen while you=92re moving.=94  But it was only until our hitch-hiking

experiences that I realized how true it was. How beautiful a memory when my

brother finally told me that he understood this philosophy on the back of a

pick-up while we watched the sunset=92s dying light dancing on the mountains

behind us.  America is always changing, because time is always changing, so,

therefore we must run to grasp America.  America is the =93IT=94 that Sal=

 and

Dean were chasing throughout On the Road.  Only catchable when moving, but

at the same time it is always the same America, always the same IT.  It only

appears different because our senses are trapped in a temporal world.  By

discovering America, we transcend time into a world of pure imagination that

is so much more perfect than the actual world ever was, but hopefully

someday, the reality will be able to match our dreams.  =93There is no truth

but in transit,=94 Emerson said.

        It is time for Americans to listen.  America has been silent for all these

years, but now she has something to say.  All these people bragging about

how much money they make.  It=92s time for America to shut these people up.

It=92s time to listen to me because America wants me to tell you her story.

She wants me to open your ears.

        The title page to Jack Kerouac=92s Visions of Cody reads: =93Dedicated to

America, whatever that is.=94  Such a simple yet beautiful description of

America.  Jack then proceeds to find America in the novel and he finds Cody

and he realizes that you can=92t separate the Americans from their America.

The inner and outer worlds are both important.  Jack realizes that the Real

America, the Red Brick-Wall America, is hidden=20

 behind the Red Neon Moloch America.  And now, =93it=92s infinitely bleaker=

 than

ever=94 (Visions of Cody 82).  The Real America =93hid behind the red neons=

 of

our frontward noticeable desperately advertised life=94 (79).  It=92s only=

 when

Jack accepts loss forever that he is found.  Found by a =93wild sweet=

 America=94

where the =93dew is on the road again and as forever.=94  And when Cody=92s

=93American Irish pioneer in him was mourning the loss of home, he realized=

 he

never had one=94 (386).  All us Americans must reach this understanding=

 before

we can ever find America.  Cody =93represents all that=92s left of America=

=94

(342).  The only thing left of worth in America are self-believing

individuals and Mother Nature herself.  When Jack comes to this conclusion

at the end of Visions of Cody, he can finally say that =93the holy road is

over=94 (397).

        Gregory Corso realized that we, as American individuals have become America

herself: =93Yea the America the America unstained and never revolutionized=

 for

liberty ever in us free, the America in us--unboundaried and unhistoried, we

the America, we the fathers of that America, the America you [Jack Kerouac]

Johnnyappleseeded, the America I heralded, an America not there, an America

soon to be.=94 An America soon to be.  It appears to me that the American

Dream is really nothing more than hope.  Hope for an actual America as

beautiful as the America in our dreams.  Allen Ginsberg also agrees with the

belief that personal independence is one thing to fight for in America: =93T=

he

stakes are too great=97an America gone mad with materialism, a police-state

America, a sexless and soulless America prepared to battle the world in

defense of a false image of its Authority.  Not the wild and beautiful

America of the comrades of Whitman, not the historic America of Blake and

Thoreau where the spiritual independence of each individual was an America,

a universe, more huge and awesome than all the abstract bureaucracies and

Authoritative Officialdoms of the World combined.=94

        I want an America that is safe for hitch-hiking.  Hitch-hiking is the

perfect way to reinstall faith in one=92s country.  While hitch-hiking one

puts everything out of their own hands and into the hands of America.  One

relies on America to get them where they are going.  There is nothing in the

world sadder than watching cars pass you by as you stand on the side of the

road holding your soul in your thumb, and=20

 making eye contact with drivers who quickly break the contact and look

away.  This is what makes Big Sur so sad when Jack reflects, =93This is the

first time I=92ve hitch hiked in years and I soon began to see that things

have changed in America, you can=92t get a ride anymore.=94 =20

        Sometimes I wonder if there are any remains of the Real America, of the

Kerouac America.  Sometimes I think this is just a doomed attempt like

trying to catch the sun, but it does not matter.  The Real America is found

only in the process of searching for the Real America.  It is the journey

that counts, not the destination.  Even if America will never be found again

that does not give us reason to postpone our search.  One Saturday night

over Spring Break, a friend and I were cruising around Panama City Beach.

There were thousands of college students all trying to find the center of

the American Saturday Night.  Cars were bumper to bumper, and we drove about

ten miles in two hours before the traffic started to die down again.  We had

no idea why the traffic died, all these people had to be going somewhere.

Then--BAM--an epiphany came up and slapped my face: The actual cruising is

itself the center of the American Saturday Night.  There is no place to go,

but we gotsta go.  And now I know that Jack was wrong when he wrote: =93no=

 guy

whether he was a big drinker, or big fighter or big cocksman could ever find

the center of Saturday Night in America=94 (Visions of Cody 57).=20

        Allen Ginsberg describes Visions of Cody as =93a dirge for America, for its

heroes deaths too, but then who could know except in the Unconscious? -- A

dirge for the American Hope that Jack (& his hero Neal) carried so valiently

after Whitman -- An America of pioneers and generosity -- and selfish glooms

and exploitations implicit in the pioneers=92 entry into foreign Indian and

Moose lands -- But the great betrayal of that manly America of Love was made

by the pseudo-heroic masculines of Army and Industry and Advertising and

Construction and Transport and toilets and Wars.=94 (Visions of Cody 430).

        We must never let the silence of Moloch take over America.  An America who

wants us to return to our childhood dreams of her, when we were young and

idealistic and spent our time frolicking in dandelion patches.  An America

who will never end, and despite how hard Moloch tries, her original beauty=

 will=20

 always be there, and there will always be hope, because the Real American

Dream refuses to die.  This song, which was passed to me by Whitman,

Kerouac, Wolfe, Ginsberg, etc., will soon be passed to others, and so the

song goes on forever.  There will always be people whose ears are sensitive

to the beauty of America and they will hear the song swelling inside of them

and they will know that there is nothing left to do but sing

 

 

 

 

Works Consulted

 

Primary Sources:

 

Brinkley, Douglas.  _The Majic Bus: An American Odyssey_.  New York:

Doubleday, 1993.

 

Burroughs, William S.  _Naked Lunch_.  New York: Grove-Atlantic, 1992.

 

Cassady, Neal.  _The First Third_.  San Fransisco: City Lights, 1971.

 

Corso, Gregory.  _Mindfield, New and Selected Poems_.  New York: Thunder=92s

Mouth, 1989.

 

Ferlinghetti, Lawrence.  _A Coney Island of the Mind_.  New York: New

Directions, 1958.

------.  _These Are My Rivers: New and Selected Poems 1955-1993_.  New York:

New Directions,         1993.

 

Ginsberg, Allen.  _Howl and Other Poems_.  San Fransisco: City Lights, 1956.

------.  _Collected Poems 1947-1980_.  New York: Harper & Row, 1985.

 

Kerouac, Jack.  _Mexico City Blues_.  New York: Grove, 1959.

------.  =93Is There a Beat Generation?=94  Recorded talk published as=

 =93Origins

of the Beat Generation,=94      Playboy, June 1959.

------.  _Lonesome Traveler_.  New York: Grove Press, 1960.

------.  _Selected Letters 1940-1956_.  New York: Viking Penguin, 1995.

------.  _The Dharma Bums_.  New York: Viking Penguin, 1971

------.  _Desolation Angels_.  New York: Perigee, 1978.

------.  _On The Road_.  New York: Viking Penguin, 1991.

------.  _Big Sur_.  New York: Viking Penguin, 1992.

------.  _Tristessa_.  New York: Viking Penguin, 1992.

------.  _Pomes All Sizes_.  San Fransisco: City Lights Books, 1992.

------.  _Visions of Cody_.  New York: Viking Penguin, 1993.

------.  _Good Blonde & Others_.  San Fransisco: Grey Fox Press, 1993.

------.  _Vanity of Dulouz_.  New York: Viking Penguin, 1994.

------.  _The Scripture of the Golden Eternity_.  San Fransisco: City

Lights, 1994.

 

Sackmann, Matthew.  _My Life: The Journal I Never Kept_.  Published in=

 Heaven.

 

Snyder, Gary.  _Earth House Hold: Technical Notes and Queries to Fellow

Dharma Revolutionaries_.        New     York: New Directions, 1969.

------.  _Mountains and Rivers Without End_.  San Fransisco: Four Seasons

Foundation, 1996.

------.  _No Nature: New and Selected Poems_.  New York: Pantheon, 1992.

------.  _Turtle Island_.  Boston: Shambhala, 1993.

=20

Anthologies:

 

Charters, Ann, ed.  _The Portable Beat Reader_.  New York:Viking Penguin,=

 1992.

 

Knight, Brenda, ed. _Women of the Beat Generation_.  Berkeley: Conari Press,

1996.

 

Tonkinson, Carole, ed.  _Big Sky Mind: Buddhism and the Beat Generation_.

New York: Riverhead Books,      1995.

 

Waldeman, Anne, ed.  _The Beat Book_.  Boston: Shambhala, 1996.

 

Bibliographies:

 

Charters, Ann.  _Kerouac: A Biography_.  San Fransisco: Straight Arrow,=

 1973.

 

Gifford, Barry, and Lawrence Lee. _ Jack=92s Book: An Oral Biography of Jack

Kerouac_.  New York,    Penguin, 1979.

 

Related Texts:

 

Frank Robert.  _The Americans_.  Introduction by Jack Kerouac.  New York:

Grove, 1959.

 

Hunt, Tim.  _Kerouac=92s Crooked Road_.  Hamden, CT: Archon Books, 1981.

 

Weinreich, Regina.  _The Spontaneous Poetics of Jack Kerouac_.  Carbondale:

Southern Illinois            University         Press, 1987.

 

Films:

 

_Pull My Daisy_.  Narrated by Jack Kerouac, with Gregory Corso, Peter

Orlovsky , Larry Rivers, and     David  Amram.  Directed by Robert Frank and

A. Leslie.  Houston: Houston Museum of Art, 1958.

 

Audio Recordings:

 

_The Beat Generation_.  Santa Monica, Calif.: Rhino/Word Beat, 1992.

 

Ginsberg, Allen.  _Holy Soul, Jelly Roll: Poems and Songs 1949-1993_.  Santa

Monica, Calif.:         Rhino/Word      Beat, 1994.

 

Kerouac, Jack.  _The Jack Kerouac Collection_.  Santa Monica, Calif.:

Rhino/Word Beat, 1993.

 

 

*****************************************************************

 

"Everyone takes the limits of his own vision

         for the limits of the world."

 

                                Arthur Schopenhauer

 

*****************************************************************

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 04:11:51 EDT

Reply-To:     Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>

 

-------------Forwarded Message-----------------

 

From:   Joe,

To:     Beat-L, INTERNET:BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

 

Date:   06/06/97 18:17

 

RE:     BEAT-L Digest - 4 Jun 1997 to 5 Jun 1997

 

 

 

-------------Forwarded Message-----------------

 

From:   Joe,

To:     Automatic digest processor, INTERNET:LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

 

Date:   06/06/97 15:47

 

RE:     BEAT-L Digest - 4 Jun 1997 to 5 Jun 1997

 

Message text written by Automatic digest processor

>listen to a cricket

speak for two hours

a day

until you understand

the melody

while eating an apple

a day

and keep those spiritual

advisors at bay !!!!<

 

this made me smile.  one of the reasons i asked for such

an advisor is that i hit the road (with pc) alone in september

starting in spain.  when i've worked there in the past the mountainside

apartment is awash at night with the sound of crickets...also

one of my personal goals is to eat more fruit.  always putting

off such ideas until tomorrow i decided to wait until i got to

spain where the sun shines & fruit becomes more appealing.

 

could this be a prophesy of things to come?  eating apples

to the sound of crickets!  (we don't have many crickets in

northern uk incidently)  hope my memory serves me well & i

will think of david should this happen

 

 

 

also, as this is a 'literature' forum, i thought some of you may

appreciate this...

 

 

       The European Union commissioners have announced that agreement

       has been reached to adopt English as the preferred language for

       European communications, rather  than German, which was the

       other possibility.  As part of the negotiations, Her Majesty's

       Government conceded that English spelling had some room for

       improvement and has accepted a five-year phased plan for what

       will be known as EuroEnglish (Euro for short).

 

       In the first year, "s" will be used instead of the soft "c".

       Sertainly, sivil servants will resieve this news with joy.

       Also, the hard "c will be replaced with "k". Not only will this

       klear up konfusion, but typewriters kan have one less letter.

 

       There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year,

       when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced by "f". This will

       make words like "fotograf" 20 per sent shorter.

 

       In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be

       expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are

       possible.  Governments will enkorage the removal of double

       letters, which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling.

       Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of silent "e"s in the

       languag is disgrasful, and they would go.

 

       By the fourth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as

       replasing "th" by z" and "w" by " v".

 

       During ze fifz year, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords

       kontaining "ou",

 

       and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations

       of leters.

 

       After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer

       vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi

       tu understand ech ozer.  Ze drem vil finali kum tru.

 

 

 

REMEMBER THIS IS A JOKE - DO NOT TAKE SERIOUSLY!!!!

 

 

joe

newcastleunitedkingdom

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 04:11:54 EDT

Reply-To:     Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>

 

-------------Forwarded Message-----------------

 

From:   Joe,

To:     Beat-L, INTERNET:BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

 

Date:   06/06/97 18:16

 

RE:     BEAT-L Digest - 29 May 1997 to 30 May 1997

 

 

 

-------------Forwarded Message-----------------

 

From:   Joe,

To:     Automatic digest processor, INTERNET:LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

 

Date:   06/06/97 17:33

 

RE:     BEAT-L Digest - 29 May 1997 to 30 May 1997

 

>I bet we all listen to music almost all the time.  It'd be inneresting if

people posted their soundtracks with their posts.     (ben neil)

<

 

i'd die without music.

 

i'm currently listening to a band called THE verve

 

a couple of their lyrics are:

 

 "where you gonna go when the music stops

  and you're left alone in your mind

  well i'll be hearing music till the day i die"

 

 (i interpret this as the singer meaning he'll be hearing music

 in his mind till the day he dies)

 

 "dreamt of the future woke up with a scream i was buying

   some feelings from a vending machine."

 

now there's a thought!

 

imagine being able to buy a bar of cadbury's dairy milk kerouac from a vending

machine.  once digested you too can understand the emotion and knowledge

of beat!

 

 

joe

newcastleunitedkingdom

 

 

actually, thinking about it would probably be a can budweizer from a vending

machine ;-7

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 04:11:47 EDT

Reply-To:     Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>

 

-------------Forwarded Message-----------------

 

From:   Joe,

To:     Beat-L, INTERNET:BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

 

Date:   06/06/97 18:17

 

RE:     BEAT-L Digest - 28 May 1997 to 29 May 1997

 

 

 

-------------Forwarded Message-----------------

 

From:   Joe,

To:     Automatic digest processor, INTERNET:LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

 

Date:   06/06/97 17:11

 

RE:     BEAT-L Digest - 28 May 1997 to 29 May 1997

 

 

>Just tossing out a question for discussion that seems to me is always at the

root of the "who is beat" issue, whis IS the most enduring topic for

discussion on this list notwithstanding the Kerouac estate issue.

 

Is beat a style, not confined to a specific time, place or set of people?

 

OR is beat something that is now and forever the label for the work of Jack

Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg, William Burroughs, Gregory Corso and the rest?

 

Howard Park<

 

i'm guilty of this 'who is beat' question too.  i first joined the list in

october

95 (and haven't left & rejoined since!) and it wasn't too long before i asked

if bukowski (an author i put up there with kerouac & burroughs) was beat.

 

needless to say it wasn't long before i was singed (rather than flamed)

for asking such a stupid question.  this was definetly a good thing for me

as it made me question what beat meant to others as well as myself.

 

i don't think we'll ever escape this question unless some kind soul cares

to filter the archives and stick everyones opinion on this topic into an faq.

 

my (current) view on the term beat is that it is a philosophy, a world-view,

a lifestyle, a selfpreserving function of the brain.  it is also a label used by

people (who need a shortcut to thinking) in order to conceptualise a group of

writers, poets, drug takers, outlaws and travellers.  for me it is all of these

and more.

 

to steal from william burroughs i'll offer the following for anyone reading:

 

1. you have to first agree with people how you want to use the word.

 

2. a word doesn't mean anything by itself, there's no built-in intrinsic

meaning,

it's just how you want to use it.

 

3. it's an abstraction like, "what is the truth?"

 

4. it's a semantic blind-alley.

 

5. it doesn't have a meaning except that which you assign to it, and if people

don't

agree on the meaning then you're going to have endless feuds over nothing, which

is

what happens all the time.

 

6. beat is a four-letter word.

 

7. if you agree on what you mean and how you want to use it, only then

can you use it.

 

8. to say that it has an absolute inherent meaning one way or an absolute

inherent

meaning the other way, is a semantic problem.

 

9. dont ask a large question using a large word which can mean anything, and

then

expect somebody to give you a sensible answer.

 

 

for me beat is a philosophy that is an ideal rather than an idea

 

for me beat is an ever lasting emotion - anyone who can understand & emphasize

with

this specific eMotion is beat

 

for me beat is jack kerouac neal cassady herbet huncke ad lib to fade

 

for me beat is lying in the gutter yet still reaching for the stars

 

for me beat is this list

 

thats enough for me

 

joe

newcastleunitedkingdom

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 05:02:24 -0500

Reply-To:     RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: wisdoms from wise creators

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Maya Gorton wrote:

 

>

> "The most beautiful emotion we can experience is the mystical. It is the

> sower of all true art and science. Those to whom this emotion is a

> stranger . . . are as good as dead. To know that what is impenetrable to us

> really exists --- manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most

> radiant beauty, which our dull facilities can comprehend only in their most

> primitive forms --- this knowledge, this feeling, is at the centre to true

> religiousness. In this sense, and this sense only, I belong to the ranks of

> devoutly religious man." Albert Einstein

 

he also said

 

"i have my best ideas while shaving."  :)

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 05:31:13 -0500

Reply-To:     RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Traveling dream

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

to the tune of "Pack up your sorrows"

 

awoke in Salina from dream of trip to kansas city.

stopped in lawrence on way.

met patricia and company.

wish Lena would let me play "Q" now and then.

wedding visions.

tears streaming like ghost of bride's great grandmother twice removed.

weep.

vision of three old Rhaesa's and trunkload of trash.

back at patricia's.

or billy p's.

same room many places.

no watches.

highway scenes.  varied.

food.  good.

smell of chicken burritos.

terrific & terrify

two terms of travel tune.

smell of burning rubber.

car shaking.

steering column jerks.

cars passing.

passing.

passing.

leaving me behind like ugly samarai warrior.

pit crew and Indy descends and my Uncle Babe in charge.

 

i'm awake now.  slept for three days and have ressurected.  quite a

dream.  no place like home.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 07:38:09 -0400

Reply-To:     Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      some thoughts on the list

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

it seems since beat-l is going down the tubes in some fashion, here. it's

like everybody's personal planner, sec'ty etc since bill did what he had to

do to make us think about what we send. and yet, not so much thinking

goinn' on

private posts proliferate.

maybe if people could take their more personal correspondence off list, we

could again go into full swing again. ie, focus on literature.

and yes, i do also send personal posts to list sometimes. this is for all,

includ. me, to think about.

however,  most of my personal posts i send off list with list friends vs

spamming all with details of who sat on whos terlet seat or whatever.

and that is not an allusion/illusion to any previous poster.

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 14:54:51 +0200

Reply-To:     Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: X

In-Reply-To:  <339B1FB0.79B5@update.uu.se>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

X is

black-- amiri baraka (Leroi Jones)

---

yrs

Rinaldo

* sorry this has no beat connection *

*       i'm a beetle beated             *

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 10:01:08 -0400

Reply-To:     Marioka7@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>

Subject:      attn all beat-l members!

 

I am seeking collaborators for a 'Zine' project.  It will consist of the

following:

 

---poetry, poetic prose

---social ciriticism

---sociology of art and literature

---music and book and film reviews

---artwork (photos, drawings, paintings, ideas)

 

The end product will be printed on actual paper (remember that stuff?)  in

black and white with color pages and real binding (not staples!!).  I would

like to work on it this summer and print it in September, as I am leaving

country indefinitely in October.

 

I am open to all kinds of submissions, not only beat-related.  Please send

things by e-mail to Marioka7@aol.com  or by regular mail to: (wait a minute,

i don't wanna post my addres, so just e-mail me and I'll send it to you if

you need it)

 

Though I'm not looking for any particular flavor of writing, some selectivity

may be necessary, depending on the volume of submissions.  Thanks and I look

forward to hearing from you.---------------------------------------------maya

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 09:34:46 -0500

Reply-To:     Bob Fox <bfox@SIU.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bob Fox <bfox@SIU.EDU>

Subject:      LeRoi Jones/Amiri Baraka

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

        With regard to Rinaldo Rasa's comment that his posting of a quote

from Amiri Baraka (LeRoi Jones) "has no beat connection," it is necessary

to note that before he became a black cultural nationalist and changed his

name to Amiri Baraka ("blessed prince") in 1967, LeRoi Jones was very

closely associated with the Beats.  He was the only black writer included

in Donald Allen's seminal anthology THE NEW AMERICAN POETRY 1945-1960,

which included many of the Beats.  Jones also published (along with his

first wife Hettie Cohen) a magazine called YUGEN (1958-1963), which

published many Beat writers.  He was close friends with Allen Ginsberg and

others before repudiating his relationships with white people (something he

is critical of today).  The full story of the beats would have to include

African Americans like LeRoi Jones and Ted Joans, as well as Bob Kaufman.

If anyone knows of any others, I'd like to have the information.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 08:00:21 -0700

Reply-To:     Jo Ann Collins <joannc@CSUFRESNO.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jo Ann Collins <joannc@CSUFRESNO.EDU>

Subject:      Jazz Poetry

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

I'll try again to see if anyone might be interested in providing some advice

on comparing jazz poetry (most of the poems I'm discussing are either

dedicated to or called by the artist's name - - i.e. Charlie Parker,

Thelonius Monk, Charles Mingus, John Coltrane, etc. ) to jazz.  I'm

specifically discussing the poetry of Lawson Inada.  I was referred to your

list by someone who said there were knowledgeable people on this BEAT list.

But maybe I'm in the wrong genre.  Questions would be how the structure of

the poem relates to the way the music is written and performed; how the

words may make you think of the artist's music, etc.  Thanks for any help

that may be offered.  Jo Ann

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:01:26 -0400

Reply-To:     Waterrow@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Beat-L T-Shirt Update

 

Check out the Beat-L T-shirt at http://www.waterrow.com

---------------------

Forwarded message:

Subj:    Beat-L T-Shirt Update

Date:    97-06-02 15:54:02 EDT

From:    Waterrow

To:      Beat-L@cunyvm.cuny.edu

CC:      Waterrow

 

Dear Beat-L members:

 

Thanks to all of you who have emailed or phoned me to place your order for

the official Beat-L T-shirt which will be ready to ship in a few weeks....

 

But to all of you out there who placed your name on the list back in April to

reserve your T-shirts - Now is the time to honor your committment....

 

The T-shirt has been custom designed by artist S.Clay Wilson and is available

in Large- Extra Large- and Extra Extra Large Sizes. White ink on black 100%

super deluxe quality cotton preshrunk T-shirt...$18.00 (no shipping or

handling charges).

Satisfaction guaranteed.

Master Card / Visa / Money Order / or Check....

 

C'Mon Gerry Nicosia! - If you really care about this Beat-L and promoting it

to the world, Order a T-shirt!!  And how about you - Jerry C. - How come you

won't buy a shirt to help promote this list??? And what about you, Paul

Maher? You can give a shirt to Sampas as a gift!  (only kidding!!!! - don't

be soooo sensitive, you guys!)

 

Seriously, folks - please honor your T-shirt committment as soon as possible.

We ordered the quantity of shirts and sizes based on your reservations....

 

You can view the S. Clay Wilson artwork for the Beat-L shirt at:

http://www.waterrowbooks.com

 

Thanks -

 

Jeffrey Weinberg

Beat-L T-shirt Committee

c/o Water Row Books

PO Box 438

Sudbury MA 01776

Tel 508-485-8515

Fax 508-229-0885

EMail Waterrow@aol.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 10:00:47 -0500

Reply-To:     RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      A note from MEAN John

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--------------181235B01C22

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a note from MEAN John.

 

I have no recollection if this was posted during the great flood of

tribute postings.

 

here it comes .... straight in from California

where grapes are picked

and the grape pickers are

grape pickers.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

 

--------------181235B01C22

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Received: from emout19.mail.aol.com (emout19.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.45])

        by services.midusa.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA05321

        for <race@midusa.net>; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 04:35:33 -0500 (CDT)

From: JKM1993@aol.com

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          by emout19.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0)

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          Sat, 7 Jun 1997 05:46:09 -0400 (EDT)

Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 05:46:09 -0400 (EDT)

Message-ID: <970607054609_-1296137460@emout19.mail.aol.com>

To: race@midusa.net

Subject: Ginsberg tribute

 

David,

 

I don't know if you saw this...thought I would send it along...

 

John

 

Allen Ginsberg: A Moment of Grieving

Diane di Prima

 

Allen's face stares up at me from a dozen newspapers,

Never to give his stiff and upright form another hug!

No more vegetarian concoction dinners at Varsity Town Houses!

No more lucid, humorous analysis of puzzling political climate!

Not to be buddies again on some committee to spring a friend from prison

or raise

  bucks for yet another civil liberties trial!

No more late hours in punk dives readis together for lamas or dharma

  centers, or expounding Buddhist theory 2 a.m. into green room mikes for

  Pacifica Radio!

No time to fuss that he doesn't take care of himself!

No more presentation copies with funny drawings of flowers, suns, and

Buddhas!

No chance to meet next generation of pretty boy poetry groupies, borrow

coffee on

  Boulder summer mornings!

No one to ask me about my sex life, my kids', my grandkids' sex lives!

No more that warm, deep, beautiful voice coming between us poets and our

  Troubles---real or mind-created!

No rich, funny gossip, latest literary news from around the world,

grandfatherly

  unlooked-for and unused poetry advice.

No warrior of outspoken directness, unabashed songs of the most detailed,

  embarrassing and personal moments of all our lives.

 

John Meany

Claremont Colleges

 

 

 

--------------181235B01C22--

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 10:58:32 -0400

Reply-To:     "Michael L. Buchenroth" <mike@INFINET.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael L. Buchenroth" <mike@INFINET.COM>

Subject:      Ray Bremser

Comments: cc: cveditions@aol.com

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Charlie:

Last Friday talking to Jeffrey at Water Row books (I ordered my Beat-L

T-shirts), Jeffrey talked of Ray Bremser and of Bonnie Bremser's book

"Troia" and that Bonnie intends to rewrite it and add pages. Saturday

night at work, I read the Ray Bremser section in "Portable Beat Reader."

 

Anyway, Jeffrey suggested that I ask you about Ray and Bonnie

Bremser--that you might have some personal antidotes regarding these two

writers that you might share?

 

Thank you...

 

Michael L. Buchenroth

mike@buchenroth.com

www.buchenroth.com

To view

Columbus' Electronic Literary Magazine

go to

www.buchenroth.com/magazine.html

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 12:17:57 -0400

Reply-To:     "Michael L. Buchenroth" <mike@INFINET.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael L. Buchenroth" <mike@INFINET.COM>

Subject:      Illness' remedy

Comments: cc: cveditions@aol.com

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Charley:

I meant to ask for personal anecdotes not some herbal remedy, perhaps

ephedrined ma haung stem tea antidote to fatigue and a whacked out spell

check'n less Monday homonymal service! -- "God be with thee folks--Praise

the day and the father and the mother and yer ghost--that shadow trail'n ya

there to too two an and there they're their bare-Not Owsley-bear, bow

tie ya heads, let's pray -- Some benzedrine or another

amphetamine would do it! I'd rather have the antidote than the

anecdote if the antidote was speed and the condition was me...

Antidote us... I suppose

But I meant anecdote...

 

Michael L. Buchenroth

mike@buchenroth.com

www.buchenroth.com

To view

Columbus' Electronic Literary Magazine

go to

www.buchenroth.com/magazine.html

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 19:10:49 +0200

Reply-To:     Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      old times--questions--questions...

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

DEAR friends,

how many are we? 150... 250... who he does it know?

 

i download for myself the Beat-L archive

month by month & here there's all

the answers we/i need (?),

 

yes, man,

we posters are the wired point

of what? dawn/twilight of

the millenium,

 

'bout what's we can write

'cuz beat is a feeling

 

---

yrs

Rinaldo

* a not competent beat *

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 19:15:45 +0200

Reply-To:     Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: LeRoi Jones/Amiri Baraka

In-Reply-To:  <l03010d00afc17c743039@[131.230.145.137]>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 09.34 09/06/97 -0500, Bob Fox wrote:

>        With regard to Rinaldo Rasa's comment that his posting of a quote

>from Amiri Baraka (LeRoi Jones) "has no beat connection," it is necessary

>to note that before he became a black cultural nationalist and changed his

>name to Amiri Baraka ("blessed prince") in 1967, LeRoi Jones was very

>closely associated with the Beats.  He was the only black writer included

>in Donald Allen's seminal anthology THE NEW AMERICAN POETRY 1945-1960,

>which included many of the Beats.  Jones also published (along with his

>first wife Hettie Cohen) a magazine called YUGEN (1958-1963), which

>published many Beat writers.  He was close friends with Allen Ginsberg and

>others before repudiating his relationships with white people (something he

>is critical of today).  The full story of the beats would have to include

>African Americans like LeRoi Jones and Ted Joans, as well as Bob Kaufman.

>If anyone knows of any others, I'd like to have the information.

>

>

i agree with u, LeRoi Jones IS a beat,

apologies for the mistake,

i love u friends, indeed,

yrs

Rinaldo

from venice,italy.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:04:24 -0400

Reply-To:     MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@OTC.USOC.CCHUB.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@OTC.USOC.CCHUB.COM>

Subject:      Re[2]: So, I got up this morning and...

Comments: To: Leitha Sackmann <lsackma@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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<SNIP>

 

>  If you really hate hemingway, then why are you reading TSAR?  Maybe it's

>required for the bartending diploma?  Actually, I can't think of any other

>book that would be a better read for a bartender.

 

How about Big Sur, anything by Bukowski and, at my most facetious, anything

you can get your hands on from the LBJ Presidential Library (there weren't

no milk in that milk truck).

 

To keep this mildly near-topic I know Ginsberg wrote love letters to

Eisenhower, does anyone know if he wrote any to LBJ?

 

Sorry, Had to be said :)

 

     Matt Hannan

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 13:35:12 -0400

Reply-To:     "Michael L. Buchenroth" <mike@INFINET.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael L. Buchenroth" <mike@INFINET.COM>

Subject:      Leroie Jones/Amiri Baraka

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Mon June 9th, Bob Fox wrote:

...LeRoi Jones was very closely related to the Beats...

 

In case anyone hasn't yet viewed the Mystic Fire video, "Cooked Shoes,

Fried Diamonds" (Fried Shoes, Cooked Diamonds???) filmed in part at that

Jack Kerouac Naropi Institute for Disembodied Poets in Boulder CO

has LeRoi Jones reading poetry, Corso reading, Ann Waldeman reading, Ann

Waldeman swimming in a bikini in a swimming pool being interviewed, Wm S

Burroughs talking to Tim Leary, Ginsberg playing some odd

accordian device reading a poem about his father's death,

folks get'n arrested and hauled off inna gray school-bus jail wagon, etc....

 

I bought the video from Zane Kesey's K-Zey production

and Water Row also has it I believe....

 

Michael L. Buchenroth

mike@buchenroth.com

www.buchenroth.com

To view

Columbus' Electronic Literary Magazine

go to

www.buchenroth.com/magazine.html

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 14:10:58 -0500

Reply-To:     RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: So, I got up this morning and...

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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MATT HANNAN wrote:

 

I know Ginsberg wrote love letters to

> Eisenhower, does anyone know if he wrote any to LBJ?

>

 

rumours of a trist-de-la-soul in Lincoln bedroom.  Ladybird turned into

Parakeet and flew the coup.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 15:18:22 -0500

Reply-To:     RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Looking for a word i dreamed i read last night

MIME-Version: 1.0

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dream of reading about Don Juan.

don juan dreaming of reading to me.

one word tonal is remembered.

other word

        nogunal

                is peeeering through a curtain

spelling is

                unclear.

meaning appears

                related to where i live.

 

anyone who KNOWS of the etymology of this WORD could help me out.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

 

to the tune of "Goodnight Irene" by the Beach Boys

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 23:04:44 +0200

Reply-To:     Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Beat generation.

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

DEAR friends,

I think a lot of people knows that Jack Kerouac himself denied

to be a beat. "Duluoz" his last book (& other last

articles circa 1968-1969) they are more explicit on this side of JK

thought. JK:because I writes about beatniks do not make me a beat.

JK:I am independent and do not want to appear in anthology with

writers with whom I disagree.

this sentences are a bit disappointing, why JK speaks so?

 

thanx for yr friendship,

---

yrs Rinaldo.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:20:37 -0400

Reply-To:     Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      Re: So, I got up this morning and...

Comments: To: "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>

In-Reply-To:  <199706081738.NAA17204@owl.INS.CWRU.Edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Sun, 8 Jun 1997, Diane M. Homza wrote:

 

> Maybe once I get my bartending diploma & finish TSAR I'll have some

> insightful things to say (God, how I hate Hemmingway!!) about TSAR & OTR,

> since comparisions have been made before.

[snip]

> In teh meantime, any comments on my scholarly quest?

 

Been a while since reading either, but the protagonist in TSAR was impotent

& felt impotent with his relations; how does this compare (does it even)

with Sal's feelings, espcially those toward Dean?

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:28:16 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Eliot & Ginsberg

 

In a message dated 97-06-08 22:21:20 EDT, you write:

 

<< oo

 concerned with style, I think.  Take something like pissing as a perfect

 example.  Eliot would try to make a work of art about pissing. >>

A good example, Diane, and yes style was / is a concern. The only problem I

have with Ginsy's didactict of pissing is that he would wait for pissing to

become a trend. Peter used to bring his own piss to drink when they were

doing their back to earth routine. It wasn't a new thing. I found it in one

of my mother's old "underground" medical books. Anyway Allen was eager to

demonstrate to a local here in C.V. how the running water method of "wiping"

asses is better than our western paper method. i don't think the local (who

ran the liquor store) was quite ready for the lesson as we all gathered at

our tiolet. But he watched the experiment. I agreed with Allen on this one.

But back to style..hmmm where was I. Oh yeah the book just came in from the

publisher, T. Diventi, 409 Kent Ave., Bklyn, NY 11211 whom I was just on the

phone with. Wants me to come down to do a reading. Anyway the book cover is

by the same artist who did Jack Black. I've read the book through, almost,

and gave it to my son, Billy who won't let go of it. Good sign. Someone asked

whose writing now that is up to the beats. This is an example. The author

Carl Watson's, vision is one I have been seeing since those works of the

beats many years ago. I wish I had written it down. It would have been much

like this book. When I can get my hands on it again, I'll try to be more

definitive. Sorry no e-mail for Diventi.

Charles Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:33:52 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: wisdoms from wise creators

 

In a message dated 97-06-08 21:40:52 EDT, you write:

 

<< Terence McKenna >>

Didn't he write a letter to Hofstedtler? Sheldrake's another good example. I

think he is onto something with the morphic resonance and its thread through

the universe.

Charles Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:44:41 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Eliot & Ginsberg

 

In a message dated 97-06-09 01:11:03 EDT, you write:

 

<< or to get out my actual feelings, heartthrobs, I'm

 > not concerned with creating a work of art, because that's only a

 > three-letter word, anyway, plus the four-letter word work.  >>

 

Well, I think Genet did a little better in the "heartthrob" genre. What

feelings aren't actual anyway?

Charles Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:48:30 -0400

Reply-To:     Marioka7@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: attn all beat-l members!

 

In a message dated 97-06-09 15:40:45 EDT, you write:

 

<<

 > Though I'm not looking for any particular flavor of writing, some

selectivity

 > may be necessary, depending on the volume of submissions.  Thanks and I

look

 > forward to hearing from

you.---------------------------------------------maya

 

 it would assist me greatly if you could hint at a flavour ... that will

 give me a grail to search for in my mountains of paper scraps.

 

 yours,

 david rhaesa

 salina, Kansas >>

 

OK....do you have anything resembling cut-ups?  Words thrown together that

just aren't meant to be?(strange page-fellows)?

 

What about something that explores how we perceive words and try to make

SENSE of them? I mean, literally, how we attach sensation to sounds/language.

 

 

To narrow it down even further, do you have anything with nonsense words?

Words you've made up yourself? Or maybe words you threw together and got a

secondary meaning that you liked?

 

If this is still too general, send me anything with the word "spicy" in it.

-----------------------maya--------------------------

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 18:20:03 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Leroie Jones/Amiri Baraka

 

In a message dated 97-06-09 13:53:32 EDT, you write:

 

<< Ginsberg playing some odd

 accordian device reading a poem about his father's death >>

It would be a harmonium. (Harmoniums were made in Cherry Valley in 19th cent.

Dylan gave him the one he had.) Is that the same time that Allen told me

about he and Anne sat naked in a lotus position?

Charles Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 09:16:53 -0400

Reply-To:     MARK NOFERI <NOFERI.MARK@EPAMAIL.EPA.GOV>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         MARK NOFERI <NOFERI.MARK@EPAMAIL.EPA.GOV>

Subject:      Dizzy & Kerouac

Mime-Version: 1.0

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>        Question for Mark. Do you remember very much about the details of

>Gillespie picking up on Kerouac's name for the composition that he and

>Charlie Christian called "Kerouac"? It's a fascinating topic. Players did

>occasionally name songs after fans and Jack was around listening, watching

>and doing the occasional jazz review.

 

>                Antoine

> Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

Antoine,

I think you're pretty on target.  I _think_ - and this is coming from a jazz

 book, not a Kerouac bio, I remember -

that someone had suggested it to Dizzy, possibly Kerouac's friend/record company

 man Jerry Newman, as Gerry

Nicosia said, and since Dizzy simply liked the sound of the name, he named the

 arrangement after Jack.

I haven't heard the song myself - I don't think the song is centered around any

 conception of Jack's personality or

anything like that. I'm not sure if it's avaliable on CD at all, as I don't

 think it became a very big hit - but of course, if

anyone knows better than I, please elaborate...

 

Mark Noferi

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 19:32:27 -0400

Reply-To:     Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Beat generation.

Comments: To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

In-Reply-To:  <3.0.1.32.19970609230444.00cdf204@pop.gpnet.it>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Mon, 9 Jun 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

 

> JK:I am independent and do not want to appear in anthology with

> writers with whom I disagree.

 

Who was Jack talking about here I wonder. I finally took a look at the

Portable Jack Kerouac this weekend at my sister's place; inside the cover it

says something to the effect that the book was prepared in accordance to a

design the author had assembled before his death. Was this the intended

Duluoz mega-work he was always talking about, or something else entirely?

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 16:45:16 -0700

Reply-To:     Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Kerouac Week in Lowell

Mime-Version: 1.0

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                                                June 9, 1997

 

        Mark Hemenway tells us that this year, during Kerouac Week in

Lowell, the official Kerouac Committee will give tributes to Allen Ginsberg

(who died this year) and Herbert Huncke (who died last year).  He also says

there will be another memorial mass for Jack Kerouac's soul at St. Louis de

France church in Lowell, Kerouac's boyhood church, as there was last year.

        I was there last year, and was stirred by the candlelight procession

after the Mass.  But I was puzzled that no mention was made at that Mass of

Jack's daughter Jan, who had just died a few months earlier.  Now it puzzles

me even more that the official Kerouac Committee will memorialize Herbert

Huncke and Allen Ginsberg, but again, no reference whatsoever to Jack's

daughter having just died.

        Since I am not a part of the official Kerouac Committee, I can only

suggest that it would be appropriate that some acknowledgement of Jan's

passing be made during Kerouac Week this year.  And if a Mass is to be held

for Jack's soul, would it also not be appropriate to have Jan's soul

remembered there too?

        Respectfully, Gerald Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 19:57:00 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: wisdoms from wise creators

 

The Pythagorians, hence Egytians knew nothing else than that which is

sensory; for them there is scarcely  any delineation which is not a body.

C. Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 19:13:36 -0500

Reply-To:     Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac Week in Lowell

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Gerald Nicosia wrote:

>

>                                                 June 9, 1997

>

>         Mark Hemenway tells us that this year, during Kerouac Week in

> Lowell, the official Kerouac Committee will give tributes to Allen Ginsberg

> (who died this year) and Herbert Huncke (who died last year).  He also says

> there will be another memorial mass for Jack Kerouac's soul at St. Louis de

> France church in Lowell, Kerouac's boyhood church, as there was last year.

>         I was there last year, and was stirred by the candlelight procession

> after the Mass.  But I was puzzled that no mention was made at that Mass of

> Jack's daughter Jan, who had just died a few months earlier.  Now it puzzles

> me even more that the official Kerouac Committee will memorialize Herbert

> Huncke and Allen Ginsberg, but again, no reference whatsoever to Jack's

> daughter having just died.

>         Since I am not a part of the official Kerouac Committee, I can only

> suggest that it would be appropriate that some acknowledgement of Jan's

> passing be made during Kerouac Week this year.  And if a Mass is to be held

> for Jack's soul, would it also not be appropriate to have Jan's soul

> remembered there too?

>         Respectfully, Gerald Nicosia

Gerald, do you know if Edie K-Parkers autobiography got published?

nice to hear your voice on the list.

patricia

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 20:24:34 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Ray Bremser

 

In a message dated 97-06-09 11:00:24 EDT, you write:

 

<< Anyway, Jeffrey suggested that I ask you about Ray and Bonnie

 Bremser--that you might have some personal antidotes regarding these two

 writers that you might share?

 >>

I haven'y seen Bonnie since we all lived at the Committee. I have a farm

photo I can send. I understand Bonnnie is ill. I see their daughter

occasionally, who stops by Cherry Valley. The last time I saw Ray, he was

crying at the committee at a crash scene (the last one) going on there.

Before that, some years ago, we did a reading in Albany with Janine. I went

to his pad in Utica to find him. No house number on the door. Had to ask

around by description found him. I needed to take a piss; he pointed to the

kitchen sink which had grown over, moss-like. I found my way to a chair. The

floor was lined with bottles. He was on a bare mattress. The kitchen table

was piled high with empty bottles and cans and cigarette butts piled in

everything. On top of the heap was several thousand dollars in cash from a

welfare suit or something. He gave me a thousand and said someting like, now

we're square, don't ever say I owe you anything. Which he didn't. Just nickle

and dimed me for years. Everyday we hit drugstores when Turpin Hydrate

Codiene. was legal. I paid for the daily trip. He scored at two or three drug

stores. We split the drink and drove home. That lasted about two or three

years, so I guess the expense was about a thou. Too bad that still isn't on

the market. Sure helped us old timers not get the grip. They say it (Laudnum,

about the same) was advised by Coleridge's chemist. It is surely needed for

the long winters (and summers). Now the Pharmaceutical cartel can't let

anything that simple and inexpensive be on the market for the masses. They

would rather have them take something that will eventually lead to other

problems that they can realize more profits from. Simple low maintenance

addiction is not lucrative enought for the Industry. They prefer transplants,

hookups to oxygen, etc. for those with insurance. Ray did give me a mss he

finished-sd he'd like to see it in print but it didn't have anything to do

with the money. I sent the mss to Jeff.

Charles Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 20:32:08 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Fwd: buchenroth

 

Thought this might be of interest to the beat-l, proust etc. We're trying to

encourage Bob to join the list.  He is a great critic.

Pam Plymell

---------------------

Forwarded message:

From:   baculum@mci2000.com (baculum)

Reply-to:       baculum@mci2000.com

To:     CVEditions@aol.com (charles plymell)

Date: 97-06-09 20:29:22 EDT

 

Dear Charley,

 

    I finally figured out how to pull up the Buchenroth site. Yes, it's all

fascinating, and I wonder how many people have zeroed in to see it. Isn't

there a way of telling how many websites have been examined over a given

time? That's still what eludes me--the chances of being seen even if you

are goven a webpage, etc. But then if there is no webpage you won't be

seen, period. I'll send an e-mail to buchenroth to see if he'd like some

books. wouldn't it be neat to have a Peters site on his set up, along side

the cp site?

    Spent nearly 3 hours in dentist's chair this a.m. dealing with decay

under a capped tooth, etc. And wll go back Th for more. Even with dental

plan he is fuckin expensive.

     Reading a strange book by a Froggie living in England Alain De Boton,

HOW PROUST CAN CHAGE YOUR LIFE. If you'd ever want to know a lot about

Proust this would be a good place to start.  My daughter sent it to me from

Switz. She's now ordering books from Amazon! Might check that out, too. Are

you books on there? I know some of mine are, but lots of their details

about them need to be cleaned up.

     So much to do: revise a long interview I once did with R duncan that

was supposed to have appeared in a book years ago; ms. for CELEBRITIES a

book of poems that needs lots of revisions, work; onwards with 1970's book;

occasional sex with friend Larry; helping Paul with the dictionary; and

going back to long o.p. books to see if there aren't poems in there, now

totally lost, I can send around to mags for a second life.

     For now

 

Bob P.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 19:30:52 -0500

Reply-To:     RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      bill

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

bill.

 

by david rhaesa

6-9-97

 

eyes sparkle golden

reflection of k-mart

blue light special headbands...

 

eyes glow

simple awareness

of Godot's own old gardener....

 

several times

sees

my twisting synapse

or gesture

and unties

knots

left tangled

since preschool days....

 

this film to be shot in a bridge scene at sunday overlooking strawberry

fields.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:21:26 -0700

Reply-To:     Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Eliot & Ginsberg

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:

>

> The only problem I have with Ginsy's didactict of pissing is that he

>would wait for pissing to become a trend.

 

Can you elaborate further on what you see as his "trendiness" as opposed

to his "originality?"

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 19:59:32 -0700

Reply-To:     Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Edie Parker

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

                                June 9, 1997

Patricia Elliott wrote:

>Gerald, do you know if Edie K-Parkers autobiography got published?

>nice to hear your voice on the list.

>patricia

>

Dear Patricia:

        No, Edie's book has not been published.  Edie appointed a friend of

hers named Tim Moran her literary executor, and he was given ownership of

all her manuscripts and extensive Beat archives.  Tim was a tall, quiet guy

who used to accompany Edie at all the Beat gatherings.  I have not heard

from him since the 1994 Beat symposium at NYU, and I have wondered myself

what he plans to do with Edie's things.

        I did hear that Creative Arts in Berkeley plans to publish Joan

Haverty's memoir, NOBODY'S WIFE. So it would seem the time is ripe for

Edie's book too.  Poor Edie always felt left out, and it would be a final

irony if her book has to wait till every other memoir is published

first--and here she was, the first wife and also the one Jack called his

"life's wife."  As you may know, in September, 1969, when Jack went to see

his lawyer Fred Bryson about divorcing Stella, he wrote to Edie a couple of

times to come down to Florida and join him and to "hash out whatever future

they might still have together" (paraphrase).  But then Jack got beaten up

in the black Cactus bar in St. Pete, got his ribs busted and lots of

internal bleeding (which may have hastened his death), and he wrote her back

not to come down as planned.

        Then, on October 21, any chance of Jack and Edie getting back

together was killed permanently.  Instead of meeting him in Florida, Edie

saw him laid out at Archembault Funeral Home in Lowell, where she brought

him a funeral bouquet that read (at least as she remembered it to me): "Beat

the Heat."  Supposedly Ginsberg sent one that said: "Guard the Heart."

        Best, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 20:16:42 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Ray Bremser

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Pamela Beach Plymell wrote

 

. . . Everyday we hit drugstores when Turpin Hydrate

> Codiene. was legal. I paid for the daily trip. He scored at two or three drug

> stores. We split the drink and drove home. That lasted about two or three

> years, so I guess the expense was about a thou. Too bad that still isn't on

> the market. Sure helped us old timers not get the grip. They say it (Laudnum,

> about the same) was advised by Coleridge's chemist. It is surely needed for

> the long winters (and summers). Now the Pharmaceutical cartel can't let

> anything that simple and inexpensive be on the market for the masses. They

> would rather have them take something that will eventually lead to other

> problems that they can realize more profits from. Simple low maintenance

> addiction is not lucrative enought for the Industry. They prefer transplants,

> hookups to oxygen, etc. for those with insurance.

 

Charles,

 

Thanks for the memory.  I'd forgotten Turpin Hydrate.  We could get it

still in Washington State until sometime in the early 70's as I recall.

A favorite of hipper loggers, treeplanters, fisherman and other

undesirables.  Now you can't even get codienettas over the counter in

TJ.  Can get Valium relatives tho.  There is something wrong in the

world when simple, inexpensive low level opiates are that unavailable.

Makes the world safe for the smack cartels and the medico's I guess.

 

J Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 23:16:09 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Beat generation.

 

Rinaldo,

Maybe he sensed that the center is always the edge that is. Nufzentonite?

C. Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:28:50 -0500

Reply-To:     RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Eliot & Ginsberg

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Diane Carter wrote:

>

> Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:

> >

> > The only problem I have with Ginsy's didactict of pissing is that he

> >would wait for pissing to become a trend.

>

> Can you elaborate further on what you see as his "trendiness" as opposed

> to his "originality?"

 

not certain who has claim to originality of human elimination processes.

elimination seems a Constant.  don't quite fathom notion of trendyness

either.

 

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:30:00 -0500

Reply-To:     Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: Edie Parker

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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Gerald Nicosia wrote:

>

>                                 June 9, 1997

> Patricia Elliott wrote:

> >Gerald, do you know if Edie K-Parkers autobiography got published?

> >nice to hear your voice on the list.

> >patricia

> >

> Dear Patricia:

>         No, Edie's book has not been published.  Edie appointed a friend of

> hers named Tim Moran her literary executor, and he was given ownership of

> all her manuscripts and extensive Beat archives.  Tim was a tall, quiet guy

> who used to accompany Edie at all the Beat gatherings.  I have not heard

> from him since the 1994 Beat symposium at NYU, and I have wondered myself

> what he plans to do with Edie's things.

>         I did hear that Creative Arts in Berkeley plans to publish Joan

> Haverty's memoir, NOBODY'S WIFE. So it would seem the time is ripe for

> Edie's book too.  Poor Edie always felt left out, and it would be a final

> irony if her book has to wait till every other memoir is published

> first--and here she was, the first wife and also the one Jack called his

> "life's wife."  As you may know, in September, 1969, when Jack went to see

> his lawyer Fred Bryson about divorcing Stella, he wrote to Edie a couple of

> times to come down to Florida and join him and to "hash out whatever future

> they might still have together" (paraphrase).  But then Jack got beaten up

> in the black Cactus bar in St. Pete, got his ribs busted and lots of

> internal bleeding (which may have hastened his death), and he wrote her back

> not to come down as planned.

>         Then, on October 21, any chance of Jack and Edie getting back

> together was killed permanently.  Instead of meeting him in Florida, Edie

> saw him laid out at Archembault Funeral Home in Lowell, where she brought

> him a funeral bouquet that read (at least as she remembered it to me): "Beat

> the Heat."  Supposedly Ginsberg sent one that said: "Guard the Heart."

>         Best, Gerry Nicosia

o thank you for your post.  I met Edie and liked her, she was a natural

person.  I agree with the impression that she was his true wife.  I hope

the biography comes out.  She told me some unique stories from a

perspective that was not literary but gripping and passionate.  I

noticed that the burroughs contingent were inclusive to her which is

part of the dignity and elegance that comes from those folks.  I would

like to say that your writing means a lot to me and i am i have to say

thrilled to be able to actually communicate with you on some of the

subjects that are of such great interest to me.

patricia

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 10 Jun 1997 00:31:21 -0700

Reply-To:     Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Eliot & Ginsberg

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

RACE --- wrote:

>

> Diane Carter wrote:

> >

> > Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:

> > >

> > > The only problem I have with Ginsy's didactict of pissing is that he

> > >would wait for pissing to become a trend.

> >

> > Can you elaborate further on what you see as his "trendiness" as opposed

> > to his "originality?"

>

> not certain who has claim to originality of human elimination processes.

> elimination seems a Constant.  don't quite fathom notion of trendyness

> either.

>

> david rhaesa

> salina, Kansas

 

Actually, don't you see human elmination processes, I would rather say

excrement, real or in the mind, as being the constant in the writing

process that binds together the consciousness of all writers from the

beginning of time to now?

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 10 Jun 1997 00:59:39 -0700

Reply-To:     Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Excrement & the writing process

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

RACE --- wrote:

>

> Diane Carter wrote:

> >

>> Actually, don't you see humann elmination processes, I would rather

>>say

> > excrement, real or in the mind, as being the constant in the writing

> > process that binds together the consciousness of all writers from the

> > beginning of time to now?

> > DC

>

> not just writers.

> it is the great equalizer that the Pope and you and Mother Theresa and I

> all share.

>

> david rhaesa

> salina, Kansas

 

Nice to know we all have something in common in addition to our

craving for beat literature.  Everytime I think of excrement in a way

connected to literature, I think of James Joyce, no disrespect intended,

just sort of the flow of thought/dream comes to mind.  Bodily functions

and the process of writing.  Union of physical body and intellect being

necessary in the creative process.  I'm sure we can somehow relate this

back to beat writers.  Any thoughts on excrement and Kerouac?

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 10 Jun 1997 02:29:06 -0400

Reply-To:     Leitha Sackmann <lsackma@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leitha Sackmann <lsackma@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Edie Parker

Comments: To: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 10:30 PM 6/9/97 -0500, Patricia Elliott wrote:

>Gerald Nicosia wrote:

>>

>>                                 June 9, 1997

>> Patricia Elliott wrote:

>> >Gerald, do you know if Edie K-Parkers autobiography got published?

>> >nice to hear your voice on the list.

>> >patricia

>> >

>> Dear Patricia:

>>         No, Edie's book has not been published.  Edie appointed a friend of

>> hers named Tim Moran her literary executor, and he was given ownership of

>> all her manuscripts and extensive Beat archives.  Tim was a tall, quiet guy

>> who used to accompany Edie at all the Beat gatherings.  I have not heard

>> from him since the 1994 Beat symposium at NYU, and I have wondered myself

>> what he plans to do with Edie's things.

>>         I did hear that Creative Arts in Berkeley plans to publish Joan

>> Haverty's memoir, NOBODY'S WIFE. So it would seem the time is ripe for

>> Edie's book too.  Poor Edie always felt left out, and it would be a final

>> irony if her book has to wait till every other memoir is published

>> first--and here she was, the first wife and also the one Jack called his

>> "life's wife."  As you may know, in September, 1969, when Jack went to see

>> his lawyer Fred Bryson about divorcing Stella, he wrote to Edie a couple of

>> times to come down to Florida and join him and to "hash out whatever future

>> they might still have together" (paraphrase).  But then Jack got beaten up

>> in the black Cactus bar in St. Pete, got his ribs busted and lots of

>> internal bleeding (which may have hastened his death), and he wrote her back

>> not to come down as planned.

>>         Then, on October 21, any chance of Jack and Edie getting back

>> together was killed permanently.  Instead of meeting him in Florida, Edie

>> saw him laid out at Archembault Funeral Home in Lowell, where she brought

>> him a funeral bouquet that read (at least as she remembered it to me): "Beat

>> the Heat."  Supposedly Ginsberg sent one that said: "Guard the Heart."

>>         Best, Gerry Nicosia

>o thank you for your post.  I met Edie and liked her, she was a natural

>person.  I agree with the impression that she was his true wife.  I hope

>the biography comes out.  She told me some unique stories from a

>perspective that was not literary but gripping and passionate.  I

>noticed that the burroughs contingent were inclusive to her which is

>part of the dignity and elegance that comes from those folks.  I would

>like to say that your writing means a lot to me and i am i have to say

>thrilled to be able to actually communicate with you on some of the

>subjects that are of such great interest to me.

>patricia

 

Yeah, Edie seems to me to as one of the coolest gals that ole jack got

involved with.  I love Jack's description of her in a letter to neal when he

tells Neal something to the effect of:

        "You need someone like Edie, giggling under the covers in the morning."

 

She just sounds real cute and fun and sweet from what I've read about her.

I too am waiting for her book.

 

        matt

 

 

*****************************************************************

 

"Everyone takes the limits of his own vision

         for the limits of the world."

 

                                Arthur Schopenhauer

 

*****************************************************************

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:45:07 +0200

Reply-To:     Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      GHETTO DEFENDANT (the Clash)

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

DEAR friends,

i found likes:

"One night at the Bond's shows on Broadway,

Allen Ginseberg got up on stage and started

to recite something, and the band came up

with an impromptu musical backing to it. I

think that he may have done it with them a

couple of nights later as well... When we

were recording Combat Rock, Ginsberg came

down to the studio with Pete Orlofsky (sp?).

He wanted to get the Clash to back him on a

record he was going to make, but ended up on

our record instead... Some people have said

he was Joe's lyric coach on that record, but

I think that's a bit overplayed."---KOSMO VINYL

 

---

yrs

Rinaldo.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 10 Jun 1997 00:53:58 -0700

Reply-To:     "Lisa M. Rabey" <lisar@NET-LINK.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Lisa M. Rabey" <lisar@NET-LINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: So, I got up this morning and...

In-Reply-To:  <339ACC15.4C3462D@scsn.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

hmmm.... simple.

the list that i sent out a few days ago about what to do when waiting for

the beat-l mail to download?

Add that to real life.

 

I've been yaking on the phone to various bukowski enthusists as well as

bopping around san francisco.

 

does the hotel "The Utah" ring any bells to any beat enthusiests out there?

 

ttfn.

 

lisa

--

 

        Lisa M. Rabey       Computer Consultant         UIN: 1231211

         ************************************************************

          words...1000's of words.. wrapped together like wire

                   how easy it would be to hate you

                 and yet that is all i can show you -me

 

http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye

                                 mirror-> http://www.interlog.com/~lisa

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 10 Jun 1997 19:31:58 +0200

Reply-To:     Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Ann Charters

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

DEAR friends,

is here Ann Charters on the B-List? i'm reading his

introduction to JK "On The Road" (ya, re-re-re-reading summer...),

btw if also are here some Beat Brit (living in London)

can say me hello?

 

love, peace & freelin'life,

yrs

Rinaldo from venice,italy.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 10 Jun 1997 15:05:57 -0500

Reply-To:     Ron Guest <rguest@SUNSET.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Ron Guest <rguest@SUNSET.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU>

Subject:      Gary Snyder

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

I'm not familiar with Gary Snyder's work but I am constantly seeing

references to him when I read about other beats.  It is the usual,  his

influence on Kerouac and Ginsburg, being one of the original beats at the

Six Gallery reading, THE Dharma Bum etc. and I was wondering why I rarely

ever see a post about him.  Seems that he should be mentioned along with

Kerouac, Ginsberg and Burroughs. Did he somehow distance himself from the

other beats?

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:04:56 -0400

Reply-To:     Ted Harms <tmharms@LIBRARY.UWATERLOO.CA>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Ted Harms <tmharms@LIBRARY.UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Re: Gary Snyder

In-Reply-To:  <1.5.4.32.19970610200557.00675a28@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Tue, 10 Jun 1997, Ron Guest wrote:

 

> I'm not familiar with Gary Snyder's work but I am constantly seeing

> references to him when I read about other beats...I was wondering why I

> rarely ever see a post about him.  Seems that he should be mentioned

> along with Kerouac, Ginsberg and Burroughs. Did he somehow distance

> himself from the other beats?

 

Well, I think Gary is kinda an uber-beat in that he was an inspiration and

an observer but not an active, regular participant.  Sure, "Japhy" plays a

pretty big part in _The Dharma Bums_, but I think his own interests in

Japan in general and Zen in particular, kept him on the periphery of the

'Beat' scene.

 

I think much of this has to do with Snyder himself.  It would be very easy

for him to loudly proclaim his Beat-ness but he's quietly gone about his

excellent poetry (won the Pulitzer for _Turtle Island_ and _Mountains and

Rivers Without End_ got great reviews everywhere) and teaching (does

anybody know if he is still on staff at Univ. Cal. at Davis and what

courses does/did he teach?).

 

Yeah, I wish there'd be more Snyder-talk; there are fans of his on the

list, but I think we're a little more on the quiet side...;)

 

 

Ted Harms                         Library, Univ. of Waterloo

tmharms@library.uwaterloo.ca              519.888.4567 x3761

"...it's elephants all the way down." - from Hindu cosmology

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:28:59 -0400

Reply-To:     MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@OTC.USOC.CCHUB.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@OTC.USOC.CCHUB.COM>

Subject:      Re: Gary Snyder

Comments: To: Ron Guest <rguest@SUNSET.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

     I saw Snyder here in Colorado recently so he's certainly still doing

     the lecture circuit.  It was an SRO crowd, we teeming masses well

     overflowed the too small lecture hall he was given.  He's very much

     continuing his ecology-bent poetry as well as speaking on his

     eco-political stance (basing political boundaries on watersheds vs

     other means).  I believe he has a new work out (not sure).

 

     Snyder's poetry was an influence on my leaving the military (much to

     do with Right Occupation/Action).  Now I live in the shadow of "NORADs

     Rapture Mountain" to quote Ginsberg, trying to fight/right a lot of

     negative Karma.

 

     Back to your point, he didn't speak at all on the Beats, but then

     again he only delved into his own past as deep as the 1970s (Turtle

     Island is base Snyder, a definite first read).  You're right though,

     he is as much a Beat individual as an influence on them.  I'm not up

     on him personally, maybe someone else on the list, PROBABLY someone

     else on the list, is much more knowledgeable than I.

 

     Matt Hannan

 

 

 

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________

Subject: Gary Snyder

Author:  Ron Guest <rguest@SUNSET.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU> at Internet

Date:    6/10/97 3:05 PM

 

 

I'm not familiar with Gary Snyder's work but I am constantly seeing

references to him when I read about other beats.  It is the usual,  his

influence on Kerouac and Ginsburg, being one of the original beats at the

Six Gallery reading, THE Dharma Bum etc. and I was wondering why I rarely

ever see a post about him.  Seems that he should be mentioned along with

Kerouac, Ginsberg and Burroughs. Did he somehow distance himself from the

other beats?

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:15:50 -0700

Reply-To:     Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: So, I got up this morning and...

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 12:53 AM 6/10/97 -0700, you wrote:

>hmmm.... simple.

>the list that i sent out a few days ago about what to do when waiting for

>the beat-l mail to download?

>Add that to real life.

>

>I've been yaking on the phone to various bukowski enthusists as well as

>bopping around san francisco.

>

>does the hotel "The Utah" ring any bells to any beat enthusiests out there?

>

>ttfn.

>

>lisa

>--

>

>        Lisa M. Rabey       Computer Consultant         UIN: 1231211

>         ************************************************************

>          words...1000's of words.. wrapped together like wire

>                   how easy it would be to hate you

>                 and yet that is all i can show you -me

>

>http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye

>                                 mirror-> http://www.interlog.com/~lisa

>

Lisa,     June 10, 1997

 

        Jack Micheline used to hang around the Utah, other Beat characters

too.  Seems there was some new wave music there too a few years ago.

        While you're in San Francisco, bop up to the North Beach fair on

Grant Avenue on Saturday.  I'll be doing a tribute to Jan Kerouac at the

bandstand, upper Grant at Filbert, around 3 PM.  Introduce yourself!

        Best, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 10 Jun 1997 23:19:00 +0200

Reply-To:     Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Beat generation.

In-Reply-To:  <970609231546_-194754051@emout16.mail.aol.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

C. Plymell writes:

>Rinaldo,

>Maybe he sensed that the center is always the edge that is. Nufzentonite?

>C. Plymell

>

>

DEAR C. Plymell & other friends,

not only JK had difficulties to embracing the BEAT,

but even GREGORY CORSO & others. so the focus of BEAT is fading,

in the charter JK AG & WSB are only a banner, & works 'bout

modern artists american/european et coetera, i hope became more

beat-spotting than usually. for example the past estate battle

was (if i'm wrong beat me as a beetle!) concerning the true manuscript

of "On The Road" & that seem hidden in some place in the UsOfAm,

the book we enjoy are snipped from a longest book written by

many hands & Jack became the "focus" of this experience, & when he

was 47 he don't care anymore, i'm sure if JK disagree with BEAT

there's no dimishing of the past BUT a sort of emphasis of a

collective works maked in lost years,

 

love & happiness,

 

yrs Rinaldo.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 10 Jun 1997 18:06:10 -0400

Reply-To:     "Robert H. Sapp" <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Robert H. Sapp" <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Excrement & the writing process

Comments: To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

In-Reply-To:  <339D096B.71D9@together.net>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

when i first read, seems so long ago mentally, the section of the

beginning of Visions of Cody, where Jack discusses the drawbacks of

beating off sittong on a toilet seat, i thought "whooly shit, you can

write that in a novel?!"

 

 

just

kickin the shit,

Eric

 

 

On Tue, 10 Jun 1997, Diane Carter wrote:

 

> RACE --- wrote:

> >

> > Diane Carter wrote:

> > >

> >> Actually, don't you see humann elmination processes, I would rather

> >>say

> > > excrement, real or in the mind, as being the constant in the writing

nn> > > process that binds together the consciousness of all writers from the

> > > beginning of time to now?



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