=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:33:32 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Eliot & Ginsberg
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MARK
NOFERI wrote:
>
> I
was glad to come back from the weekend and read all the really fascinating
> discussions going on - I wish I had
>
been able to take part, it's things like this that really make the Internet
fun.
>
> On
Eliot and Ginsberg - I've always found it slightly strange that Ginsberg
> admires Eliot (which is the impression I get
>
from the list, anyway), because Ginsberg was influenced so heavily by
Williams,
> and Wiliams specifically mentions
>
Eliot as an example to move away from - too formal, too academic, too British,
> too many veiled references. Instead,
>
Williams focused on creating an American poetry, based on American voices
> relating singuarly American
>
experiences. Ginsberg took this a step further, eventually finding his own
voice
> to relate his own experiences.
>
>
So, open question - did Ginsberg ever
clarify this tension of admiring Eliot
> somewhat, but being heavily influenced by
>
Williams, who used Eliot as his example of everything _not_ to strive for in
> poetry?
>
>
Mark Noferi
Other
than a very short portion on Eliot in Ginsberg Verbatim which I
posted
earlier in this discussion, I don't find anything by Ginsberg
that
speaks specifically of Eliot. A quick
summary of that indicates
that he
thought Eliot was formal, striving to create a work of art and
always
adapting to someone elses form. There
is however lots of stuff
about
the way he was influenced by Williams and Pound. If anyone knows
of any
essay where he spoke of Eliot in any detail, please post it.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:44:51 -0400
Reply-To: Sisyphus
<sisyphus@POLARIS.MINDPORT.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sisyphus <sisyphus@POLARIS.MINDPORT.NET>
Subject: Re: Hunter
Comments:
To: "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
In-Reply-To:
<199706170031.UAA18320@owl.INS.CWRU.Edu>
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On Mon,
16 Jun 1997, Diane M. Homza wrote:
>
famous....this was one of them...I assumed Mr. Minister was making them up...
>
since I have no clue who HST is to begin with, I couldn't judge...
Diane,
please run, not walk to your nearest library/bookstore and get a
copy of
"Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail 1972 (6?)" by HST.
It's a
great read and I think you'll like the politics. The style of
writing
was revolutionary.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:58:56 -0700
Reply-To: James William Marshall
<iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Walking Home Question
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Seven n
the evenin. Wishin thingsid even
themselves out. Ya gotta know
that im
a private dick see always workin on a case see and im drunk see real
drunk c
and im walkin home makin use of the whole breadth of the sidewalk
and
parts of the gutter. And two girls are
sitting behind a fence and
smokin
cigarettes and im lonely as usual so I offer them a beer which is
very
out of the ordinary for me cause I have a tendon see witch makes me
greedy with
beer. One of the girls likes the
offer. Opens the gate. Makes
a place
for me on the grass beside her. Usual
get to know ewe stuff until
reluctantly
eye mentions eye wants to be a novelist someday. Damn eye. Ewe
want a
story. Ewe want a story? (Didn't really but eyes always willing to
listen) Ive gotta a story for you. There's this girl. 23. Former
prostitute
now HIV positive professionally. Didn't
mention ive heard that
story
before but eye changes the channel and starts to wonder why all good
stories
are so sad and painful and told cavalier like and why when she picks
up a
long shawl and lifts it over her head and runs with a baby shes
suddenly
the kinda girl I could love. Why even
if I wrote her biography itd
end up
being all about me. How she knows so
much about me and I know so
much
about her and I realize quick it's the beer telling a piece of the
truth
of no peace. And Eye Reel Lee only
remember the shawl trailing in the
air by
a creek thats floodin and fleedin and how im eternlly nternlly
bleedin. Must mention that to the doc.
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:14:45 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Insomniatic Musings
Comments:
To: Sara Feustle <sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19970617094858.00698be0@uoft02.utoledo.edu>
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On Tue,
17 Jun 1997, Sara Feustle wrote:
>
Wow, RACE. That was so excellent, and I related to it so much, it feels
>
weird. How many of us on this list are in psychotherapy and on psychotropic
>
drugs?
In the
past I've taken no less than 6 different SSRIs, probably more. I made
a
rear-window bumper sticker a few years back fashioned to look like those
typical
college/university stickers except mine reads PSYCHOTROPIC STATE.
m
obBeat:
came home drunk at 3am last friday, turned on pbs and watched a show
about
dylan and the beatles. several flashes to old man ginsberg talking
about
bob's lyrics.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:17:58 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Insomniatic Musings
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Michael
Stutz wrote:
>
> On
Tue, 17 Jun 1997, Sara Feustle wrote:
>
>
> Wow, RACE. That was so excellent, and I related to it so much, it feels
>
> weird. How many of us on this list are in psychotherapy and on
psychotropic
>
> drugs?
>
> In
the past I've taken no less than 6 different SSRIs, probably more. I made
> a
rear-window bumper sticker a few years back fashioned to look like those
>
typical college/university stickers except mine reads PSYCHOTROPIC STATE.
>
> m
>
>
obBeat: came home drunk at 3am last friday, turned on pbs and watched a show
>
about dylan and the beatles. several flashes to old man ginsberg talking
>
about bob's lyrics.
my
experiences with psychotropic are somewhat related in "Beyond the
Haldol
Haze: Confessions of a Pyschtropic Veteran", copyright Xmas 1992.
Soon
after that i made a practice of checking into the hospital through
emergency
where they didn't know shit and claiming an allergy to all
psychotropics. the Doctors were angry but they got over
it. In my case
it is a
sensitivity. We've toyed with my brain
sufficiently and found
that
one-fourth of one milligram is adequate to combat a high-mania. Of
course,
that's not what they shoot in your ass as they tie you down in
the
leather straps.
i've
been somewhat interested in the psychiatric records of the various
beat
authors. i imagine those are harder to
get than ..... oh well, i
imagine
it's impossible or close.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:30:32 -0500
Reply-To: thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jennifer Thompson
<thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU>
Subject: Re: seperated at birth?...
Comments:
To: "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
In-Reply-To:
<199706160328.XAA07510@owl.INS.CWRU.Edu>
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On Sun,
15 Jun 1997, Diane M. Homza wrote:
>
>list. Hell yeah, Kerouac was gorgeous, everybody notices that, so what the
>
>fuck's wrong with pointing it out, ya' know? People need to get a sense of
>
>
>
compeltely off topic of the original message here, but I'm currently
>
reading _Off the Road_, & there are pictures of both Kerouac & Neal
>
Cassady...now this is compeltely superficial here, but am I the only one
>
who thinks that the two guys look like they could be biological brothers?
>
>
Diane.
>
> --
>
Life is weird. Remember to brush your
teeth.
>
--Heidi A. Emhoff
>
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
>
Diane M. Homza
>
I just
finished _Off the Road_. Even though
they may not have seen each
other
as "biological brothers," there was a lot of discussion between the
two of
them about their blood brother relationship.
Jack even saw Neal as
his
lost brother Gerard in some respects.
Jenn
Thompson
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:54:00 -0400
Reply-To: Marioka7@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: last words..part 1(actual title:
"Secrets")
this is
the paper i wrote for my prof. but i have to send it in parts cause
it's
long (each part is very different so even if you don't like this one
read
the next one):
LAST
WORDS
I inhale colors, and I exhale bubbles
that burst in your mind.
Penetrating.
Bubbles with thin skins of words.
I
am jaguar, running in slow-motion.
Power, speed and agility,
razor-sharp
claws and fangs. I am Death incarnate;
he who breathes in my
musky
scent breathes in fear.
Call me the high priestess. My scriptures are so secret that only I
know them. What I know, I am.
Sometimes I am an eagle who rips out the
heart with its talons and
raises
it up to the sun. No room for regret,
sacrifices must be made to
ensure
that the cycle of change will continue.
I shed a skin with every word I say,
every graceful move I make as I
dance. Every movement grows out of the previous
one, like a film in slow
motion
where the body leaves ghost-traces as it moves...except now I leave
behind
past selves. The beating of the drum
entrances me, pulsing through me
like a
heartbeat; I follow my own footsteps.
All of eternity is contained in
a
microsecond--flashes of color and I am convulsed with a thousand becomings.
What I have been, what I have seen, only
I know. My heart belongs only
to
me. My secrets are dangerous, and the
Lords would like to have me killed
because
of them. Like Xquic in the Popol Vuh, I
made a fake heart out of the
sap of
a tree and sent it to them. This is how
I freed myself of them. When
they
burned the heart, the smoke was sweet.
I write my sacred poetry for all to
see. Behind the words is a secret
code
that anybody can decipher if they make the effort. Those who read it
are
contaminated with its power. It is also
highly contagious.
I leave clues everywhere, but not
everyone can recognize them. Or
interpret
them correctly. Before you can track an
animal, you have to become
that
animal, or you don't know what kind of signs it leaves behind. Is it a
broken
twig? A footprint? A musky smell? You've got to think like the
animal.
(note:
That's the same reason the best detectives are ex-criminals. They've
been
there.)
Having
been so many selves, I know what kind of animal I'm dealing with.
But it has taken me a long time to
decipher my own heart; in fact, it is
a
process that never ends. It is a code
that must be deciphered one word at
a time.
The
first word revealed itself when all other meaning was gone....
~~~~*~~~
It was New York at its most wretched, in
the middle of February. I
quickened
my steps down the icy slope that led to my apartment building,
bringing
my shoulders up so my scarf might reach my ears, struggling to
simultaneously
keep my hands shoved as deep into my pockets as they would go.
Ahead, Riverside Park was as grey as the rest
of the city (had it ever been
green?). Trees reached up like skeletal arms, and
with bony fingers beconed
me
towards the river beyond. The wind
pushed at my back, making my feet slip
forward
on the frozen ground--it seemed as if all the elements were
conspiring
against me on this cold, cold day, testing their power to break me
for
their own amusement. At last I rounded
the corner onto Riverside Drive
and
took refuge behind the large glass door or my building. I stood for a
moment,
shivering, and looked out once again onto the park. The Hudson was
white,
curving down at the ends like a grimace; through the bars of the
tree-trunks
it really looked like a horrible monster showing its teeth. As I
stood
held in horrified fascination, the monstrous river answered me; I felt
its
suffering at being frozen for so long, such sadness! And
loneliness...LONELINESS!!
and Yearning to feel even the tiniest morsel of
life
move in its great belly once again...
Slowly, I removed hands from pockets,
pressing their faintly blue skin
against
the warmth of my neck. If only there
was some sign of spring, this
would
be enough sustenance to get me through the winter. I turned and went
up
stairs.
Well, there WAS no sign, or rather, I
could not see any. All I could
see was
the snow, I didn't think about the life that lay dormant underneath.
Now I think, "How could I have been so
blind? Snow-blind?".
In my apartment, I sat on the floor next
to the radiator. I tired to
warm
myself by its heat, and to console myself with the things I learned in
class. In Painting and Scupture, I had become bored
with straight
representation
and started to explore the different effects that come from
putting
disparate elements together. I tried to
see beyond the visual aspect
of
things and create new, hybrid meanings.
Our painting teacher told us that
"The
purpose of art is to make people happy".
The delight and bewildement I
felt
for my work was shared by a few of my peers, but not by my parents.
They called my work "morbid",
"dark", "disturbing", and told me that it was
not
good. Where was the happiness I wanted
so badly to give them?
I had poured my soul into these
paintings, and they had told me that
they
were no good, and why couldn't I do something Useful. I stopped
painting,
and turned to my other passion, Anthropology, hoping that there was
at
least one thing I could do right. In
Anthropology classes I was taught to
analyze
by deconstructing. In one seminar, we
had to say why everything we
read
was wrong. We were not allowed to say
that a text was acceptable. I
tried
hard, but there was one issue about which I felt very strongly that
this
was not the right way to analyse it. I
was so convinced that I wrote a
paper
about it. My professor gave me the
worst grade I had ever received,
and
refused to talk to me about it. I
thought, "How can this person whom I
admire
so much be wrong?" I decided that
I needed to change.
Perhaps everything was constructed and
arbitrary, after all. All
meaning
disintegrated in front of my eyes. I
was drowning in the absurd,
helpless. I sank into an abyss of
nihilism--"nothing is real".
There was no
point
in anything any more, especially college.
What I had learned: my soul
is
useless, and what I believed was real and good is not. Since I was not
allowed,
in this world, to see what I see and feel what I feel, I decided
that I
wouldn't be part of it any more.
~~~*~~~
It was warm, under the security blanket
of oblivion. Free to swim from
one
memory to the next, little films of my life projected themselves in my
mind's
eye. Pain, and pleasure, were far
away. I didn't live in my body
anymore,
but in liquid dreams, elusive and transitory like purple
incense-smoke
of opium. But always, in some dark
corner of my mind, lurked
fear,
and I had to plunge deeper into myself to ignore it. Like a foetus,
avoiding
the inevitable pain of birth.
Until, one day, I reached the point where I had to choose between
a
different
existence or none at all.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:56:34 -0400
Reply-To: Marioka7@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: Last Word (secrets) continued
~~~*~~~
FIRST WORD
I SPY
WITH MY LITTLE EYE SOMETHING THAT BEGINS WITH BE
IS IT
GOOD? IS IT BAD? DOES IT MAKE YOU SAD OR GLAD?
I don't know, I don't care
it doesn't touch me
(anywhere)
::climbs
into stone sarcophagus, lies down facing upwards. slowly shifts
heavy
slab into place.
::when
the lid is securely in place, it is airtight, and totally dark.
DO YOU
FEEL IT IN YOUR BRAIN? DO YOU FEEL IT
IN YOUR VEIN?
i do not feel it here nor there! nor
ANYWHERE!
NOT IN MY BRAIN
NOT IN THE RAIN
ALL IS IN VAIN
I MUST BE
INSANE.............
::suddenly,
suffocation::
"For what dreams may
come---"
As a matter of fact, it was one of those
"something horrible is chasing
me and
its going to kill me" dreams. They
say these dreams are the peculiar
affliction
of people who feel guilty about something, like when you're
avoiding
a responsibility.
Anyway,
I was running like a murderer...but from what?
runnrunrunning running running running
simultaneously from and after
something
but I couldn't tell what it was
all I knew was I HAD to catch up with it
or else...
But it kept out of sight. It was just
around the corner, a corner I had
not
dared to round before. The corner kept
getting further and further away,
no
matter how fast I ran-- it was just beyond my reach. Running, running...
NOTHING'S
HAPPENING
If I
could just see what it was...I HAD to know.
(running)
I ran
past the Point of No Return. I only had
one drop of energy left.
I was running on empty. "This is it", I thought. One drop left. The
final
stretch--after this, turning back is as good as death, I might as well
give it
one, last, final PPUUSSHH....
!!THEN SUDDENLY!!
OH, NO!
As soon as horrified recognition crept in, i tried to look away, but
it was
too late.
I was
in it, surrounded by it, blinded, deafened by it.
it was
the face of my mother
her
face!
She's
crying and it's my fault..
In a convulsion of horror and fear and
grief, I howled.
My
underwater dream over.
The air I now had to breathe scorched my
lungs.
I felt
like I was inhaling all the dust of the world.
~~~*~~~
For three long days and three long nights
I twisted in agony as forces
inside
wrestled for control. Absolute
terror. Every nerve in my body
stretched
to the maximum, a Tug-of-War against myself.
A most
cruel and violent exorcism.
Sleep seemed further away than the sun is
to the Underworld. And the
COLD...
A
thousand winters rushing through me.
All the monsters and demons of Hell
laughed evilly as they watched me
turn
into ice. One cell at a time
chrystallizing. A chain reaction.
I saw my imminent doom as just another
ice-statue in their trophy
gallery,
fully conscious but forever cursed with the inability to
move...another
victory for Doom.
If only I could crawl out of this
too-tight skin...
If I killed myself, it would be another
victory for them.
And my
parents' grief...
Could it be that I still loved? After
all?
The Destroyer laughed. "Fool!",
said he, "Haven't you learned yet to
cast
off that perfidious illusion?"
"GO AWAY!", I screamed.
I put
my hands over my ears and began to sing.
Destroyer:
(laughs evilly)
: (disappears in puff of smoke)
Maya, or illusion, fighting for the most
insane idea she could dream of,
which
was to love.
~~~*~~~
On the
4th day I finally reached Sleep.
On the
5th day, I awoke: 1.Consciousness
2.Opened my eyes
3.Stood up on my new
legs*
*this took a long time. My new legs were
weak, since I was used to
swimming
and not walking. I faltered and was unsteady
at first, but soon got
used to
it.
On the
6th day, the sun warmed me, and I decided it must be Spring.
On the
7th day, I looked at the world with my new sensory powers, smelled it
heard
it felt it, and I saw that it could be alright, sometimes.
I took
a deep breath, inhaling all the colors, and began to write, paint,
sing,
dance, wildly so that I would never again forget what it means to be
alive.
~~~*~~~
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:02:20 -0400
Reply-To: Marioka7@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: more
SECOND WORD
To give shape and color to your fear is
to exorcise it out of you.
Somehow by representing it you take away from
its power.
Sympathetic/Contact magic: 9 out of 10
shamans recommend it.
The dance of creation and becoming is a
dance of pain and laughter and
healing. It is entrancing, contageous, powerful. If you can help another
person
heal, you might even transcend your own death.
Art is a form of anarchy. It defines itself by breaking rules and
showing
that anything is possible. Chaos is the
mother of creation. Do you
know
the joy of seeing new things? Poetry
(visual art, music, writing) is
sacred
in its power to delight and bewilder.
New connections of meanings,
profane
illuminations, can be transmitted by manipulating the plane of
consistency. Deleuze and Guattari: "The plane of
consistency is the
intersection
of all concrete forms. Therefore all
becomings are written like
sorcerers'
drawings on this plane of consistency, which is the ultimate Door
providing
a way out for them (p251)". What
we think of as the Oppressive
State
is only one dimension out of thousands.
How could I let my parents or a professor
tell me what I can know and
what I
cannot know, when I already know it?
From now on, I give them a fake
heart
while I slip out quietly and get on with my REAL mission. Like a
child,
playing with everything and making Sense out of it; I refuse to be
rendered
Useless by self-proclaimed authorities by submitting to their
cynical
view of humanity and the world. Laughter
is a powerful weapon
against
Doom, and I am determined to arm as many people as possible. There
is a
revolution under way, and the human soul is at stake. At least now I
know
I'm on the right side.
DREAMS VS. THE DREAM POLICE
We need a new language, we need tools for
understanding understanding
itself. Man's very existence depends on it. We need a change of direction
in the
way we see the world. A change away
from the mechanistic world view.
"We dream of a world in which nature
is seen as alive, in which the
imagination
permeates all reality, in which animals and plants are seen as a
part of
the living texture, the living components, the cells in the life of
Gaia..."--Rupert
Sheldrake
"John Cage, interviewed in San
Francisco, discusses his art, music and
views
on the human condition. Following his
growing interest in Eastern
philosophies,
he began integrating an element of chance into his work"
"At his home in Brussels, Ilya
Prigogine, the `poet of thermodynamics,'
speaks
about his theories which have revolutionized science. His work on
irreversible
non-linear processes that simultaneously create both order and
disorder
radically challenges our views on time and space."
"The flutter of the moth's wing can
trigger the hurricane. This is not
a
poetic statement. This is the fact of
the matter within this kind of
description
of nature. In other words, very small
changes create cascades
into
where whole states shift and are perturbed."--Terence McKenna
"The most beautiful emotion we can
experience is the mystical. It is
the
sower of all true art and science.
Those to whom this emotion is a
stranger...are
as good as dead."--Albert Einstein
Consciousness=the world. There is no clear distinction between inside
and
out. We are connected to everything,
good and bad, and everything is
connected
to us.
~~~*~~~
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:01:54 -0500
Reply-To: thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jennifer Thompson
<thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Walking Home Question
Comments:
To: James William Marshall <iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
In-Reply-To:
<199706171558.IAA05459@freya.van.hookup.net>
Mime-Version:
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On Tue,
17 Jun 1997, James William Marshall wrote:
>
Seven n the evenin. Wishin thingsid
even themselves out. Ya gotta know
>
that im a private dick see always workin on a case see and im drunk see real
>
drunk c and im walkin home makin use of the whole breadth of the sidewalk
>
and parts of the gutter. And two girls
are sitting behind a fence and
>
smokin cigarettes and im lonely as usual so I offer them a beer which is
>
very out of the ordinary for me cause I have a tendon see witch makes me
>
greedy with beer. One of the girls
likes the offer. Opens the gate. Makes
> a
place for me on the grass beside her.
Usual get to know ewe stuff until
>
reluctantly eye mentions eye wants to be a novelist someday. Damn eye.
Ewe
>
want a story. Ewe want a story? (Didn't really but eyes always willing to
> listen) Ive gotta a story for you. There's this girl. 23. Former
>
prostitute now HIV positive professionally.
Didn't mention ive heard that
>
story before but eye changes the channel and starts to wonder why all good
>
stories are so sad and painful and told cavalier like and why when she picks
> up
a long shawl and lifts it over her head and runs with a baby shes
>
suddenly the kinda girl I could love.
Why even if I wrote her biography itd
>
end up being all about me. How she
knows so much about me and I know so
>
much about her and I realize quick it's the beer telling a piece of the
>
truth of no peace. And Eye Reel Lee
only remember the shawl trailing in the
>
air by a creek thats floodin and fleedin and how im eternlly nternlly
>
bleedin. Must mention that to the doc.
>
>
James M.
>
Thank you for contributing this
piece! It's sort of a mixture
between
Lawrence and Kerouac's treatment of sexual relations/tensions.
The
honesty and symbolism in this piece is wonderful. Keep up the
creative
work.
Jenn
Thompson
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:02:55 -0400
Reply-To: Marioka7@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: last part
THIRD WORD
Having said all this, which is nothing
new, I will now attempt to
understand
how it relates to the present, post-modern world of global
capitalism
and its discontents.
THE
STATE AS MASK. ART AS SACRILEGE. DEFACEMENT AND SECRECY. WHERE IS THE
HUMAN
BEING BEHIND THE MASK? DEMYSTIFYING THE SATE. CAPITALISM AND
SCHIZOPHRENIA.
Are we a nation of paranoid
schizophrenics? Conspiracy theories run
wild. Aliens, Communists, Shiite fundamentalists,
immigrants, cults; these
are
only a few of the faceless multiplicities that threaten our existence,
according
to many Americans. They move stealthily
among us, secretly
disguised
as our neighbors. They are dangerous
and want to kill us. As a
result,
we actively seek out signs of non-conformity and target the
suspicious
subject with derision and loathing until they shrivel up and die.
This method is very effective, but of course
a few tough ones do slip
through
sometimes....
This attitude, which most anthropology
students would condemn, is
nevertheless
supported by the most liberal of my peers.
I am constantly
hearing
them talk about an evil, all-emcompassing System, which they spend
all
their time denouncing and fighting against.
It is sometimes referred to
more
specifically as `The government', `Capitalism', `the CIA'. What is this
all-powerful
and mysterious mechanism that rules their lives and on which
they
base their very identities by opposing?
Of course it is necessary to criticize
the government, but being
systematically
anti-system is to give it much more importance than it really
has. It adds to its mystery and power. How much does the `System', for a
Columbia
College student, REALLY control our lives?
Compared, for example,
to a
victim of the Death Squads in Guatemala?
I have many problems with
mainstream
society, the government and its policies, and consumerism. But
for
change to really occur, it is necessary to influence the thought of the
people
in charge, not to antagonize them with indiscriminate vilification.
This only makes people strike back, like
cornered animals.
To demystify this System, we must first
realize that there are people
behind
it, pulling the levers. Change is
possible is 2 major ways:
1. Infiltration. Get a job in the military, government, CIA,
major
corporation
or some other institution you abhor.
Then do things your way,
with
humanism and an open mind.
2. Contagion. Make poetry, art, films, plays, music that
show reality the
way you
see it. Broadcast it, write it on walls
in public places, make sure
as many
people see it as possible. Preach the
joy of creation, on street
corners. If it sticks in just a few peoples' minds,
it might make a
difference. If you can expand some peoples'
consciousness they will act more
humanely,
and perhaps take responsibility for their actions.
The main point is subtlety and
secrecy. Although your motives may be
subversive,
it is important to appear harmless to the institution you are
trying
to change, or you will always remain in opposition to it and thus
powerless
against it. If you can learn to think
like the animal, and if you
are
quiet enough, it will be at your mercy and not the other way around.
I wish I could tell that to the old man
who pickets in front of the
Federal
Building in New Orleans, LA. His sign
reads, "FREE HARRY GOLDGAR,
TELEPATH". If you read the flier he hands out, it
becomes apparent that HE
is
Harry Goldgar. Here is the flier:
(i will
post this when i get a chance to type it up)
At earlier points in my life, as
described at the beginning of this
paper,
I would have agreed with Harry completely.
Now, I realize that it is
not up
to `Them' (AKA The System) to demystify Their goals and procedures. I
refuse
to admit Their control over me by blaming Them for my problems.
~~~*~~~
CONCLUSION
1. Don't let anyone tell you that you cannot
see what you see, believe in
what
you see, or love what you see. Those
people are cynical and, by
definition,
beyond hope.
2. Chaos is the mother of creation and there is
no love stronger than what
you
feel for your own creations. Therefore,
love is Chaos, which is your
mother; stability and security are dangerous
illusions that can destroy you.
3. Change is not only possible, but also
continuous and unstoppable. If you
can
dream of something, and you pass it on to another person, it might come
true.
4. You are much more powerful and real than the
`System' if you know this.
~~~*~~~
"The important thing about art is
that it makes people aware of what
they
know but don't know they know ... This breakthrough results in a
permanent
expansion of consciousness."
--William S. Burroughs
"I call for a theatre in which the
actors are like victims burning at
the
stake, signalling through the flames."
--Antonin Artaud
BIBLIOGRAPHY
Burroughs,
William Seward. The Western Lands. New York: Penguin Books,
1988.
Canetti,
Elias. Crowds and Power. New York: Farrar, Strauss and Giroux,
1995.
Deleuze,
Gilles; Guattari, Felix. A Thousand
Plateaus. Translated by Brian
Massumi. Minneapolis, MN: University of
Minnesota Press, 1994.
Kafka,
Franz. The Metamorphosis. Translated by Willa and Edwin Muir.
New
York:
Schocken Books Inc., 1988.
Goetz,
Delia; Morley, Sylvanus. Popol
Vuh. From the translation into
Spanish
by Adrian Recinos. Norman, OK: University
of Oklahoma Press, 1991.
Taussig,
Michael. Mimesis and Alterity. New York: Routledge, 1993.
Taussig,
Michael. Shamanism, Colonialism and the
Wild Man. Chicago, IL:
University
of Chicago Press, 1991.
Warren,
Kay B. The Violence Within. Boulder, CO: Westview Press, 1993.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:30:28 -0700
Reply-To: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: Philip Lamantia
Comments:
To: stauffer@pacbell.net
MIME-Version:
1.0
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James
Stauffer wrote:
>
>
Dear Experts, scholars and bookstore people, lurkers or not
>
> I
find my mind returning periodically to Lamantia.
Is he still alive?
>
Any help would be appreciated.
>
James
> .-
I had a
very pleasant chat with Phillip about a month ago on Grant Ave
on the
North Beach. He seemed in relatively good health at the time,
although
his throat may have been giving him some problems. I have no
info
regarding your other questions.
BTW, If
anyone who has written to me did not receive a reply, it is
because
I didn't get it. I was gone for a month and most of my email was
lost.
Maybe of interest to travellers: I thought I could get my email
through
Hot Mail from anywhere so I did not unsubscribe from the list.
My
provider kept all the mail, but the memory allocated to Netscape was
outmatched
after missing just a few days, and after that it couldn't
retrieve
anything at all! When I returned after a month about 1500
messages
had to be destroyed before my mail clients could accept email
again.
It is
nice to see our list buzzing with soul searching thoughtfulness.
Leon
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:55:08 -0700
Reply-To: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Test
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1.0
Content-Type:
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Checking
connection
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:52:56 -0400
Reply-To: Bruce Hartman
<bwhartmanjr@INAME.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bruce Hartman
<bwhartmanjr@INAME.COM>
Subject: Been a long time. . .
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Welcome
back, Leon! Got any road stories for
us?
Bruce
bwhartmanjr@iname.com
http://www.geocities.com/~tranestation
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 19:27:04 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: more drugs and enlightenments
In a
message dated 97-06-16 15:31:39 EDT, you write:
<<
Be careful
what you wish for, says Burroughs, you might
get it. >>
That
old saw doesn't belong to Burroughs; it originated with Oscar Wilde and
some
others.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 18:31:39 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: more drugs and enlightenments
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1.0
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Pamela
Beach Plymell wrote:
>
> In
a message dated 97-06-16 15:31:39 EDT, you write:
>
>
<< Be careful
> what you wish for, says Burroughs, you might
get it. >>
>
That old saw doesn't belong to Burroughs; it originated with Oscar Wilde and
>
some others.
>
Charles Plymell
in
these parts it was be careful what you pray for - you might get it.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 19:52:59 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: lurker #254
In a
message dated 97-06-17 00:19:39 EDT, you write:
<<
I would like to know, however, how you
characterize your own poetry. Did any poets in particular influence you?
I decided to say influence instead of
inspire. What do you see as the
most important things that have happened in
poetry in America, from say
the forties till now? Just curious. >>
DC:
You
said inspiration makes one poetic. You might want to read my poem
Oxybiotic
Will Make You Neurotic at WWW.BUCHENROTH.COM/CORNIXOXY.HTML. At 450
words
per minute should make you flash (if it comes through right). You can
read
other poems at www.buchenroth.com/cplymell.html especially Vernal
Equinox
which happened as a dream at the very same time Allen dreamed of his
mother.
One night in Washington Allen had read his poem about his mother
before
he sent it to the NY Times for publication and I showed him the poem I
had
written about my father since it was the exact same time of inspiration
for us
both. He looked it over and suggested some changes. I published it
around
and received lots of comments about it.
It would have been futile for
me to
have sent it to the NY Times however. I wrote another poem In Memory of
My
Father about which Allen said was one of the best elegies in the English
language.
My
influences are about the same as everyone's in my generation, the Possum,
Pound,
Allen, Harte Crane, Whitman. However, in contrast to Allen I thought
Williams
and Olson were bores. I read Rexroth's translations mainly. Didn't
see
much in the St. Mark's poets other than Jim Carroll. Didn't care for the
Beats
as a whole, my favorite is Taylor Mead.
I think
Allen's use of his stage was an eye opener and kept poetry free from
the
academe for a while. Unfortunately Allen had to carry the baggage that he
packed
which eventually dragged him down I think. For instance, Whitman's
breadth
of compassion I felt was beyond the politics of the Civil War but
expressed
the suffering and frailty of human action and spirit. I never got a
sense
of religion in Pound's work though I felt he was more comfortable with
many
gods. Ginsberg fell victim to politics and religion while greater poets
placed
them in their more arbitrary roles. That is not to say that a poet
like
Milton did not benefit by his religious lines, but I didn't feel he was
necessarily
using his poetry to proselytize. Even his lines were imagistic
for his
time. For example: "And all the spangled host keep watch in squadrons
bright?"
is as pure an image if not surreal as Crane's "and a serpent swam a
vertex
to the sun/ on unpaced beaches leaned its tongue and drummed." All
these
lines are from memory so they may not be exact. BTW have you read me at
all?
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:05:59 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: that old conciousness again
In a
message dated 97-06-17 01:29:30 EDT, you write:
<< I don't suggest we don't read
Homer or Shakespeare or Eliot, only that we
recognize when the
consciousness of poetry is enlarged by a
broader vision that builds on
the works of the past and moves both
literature and language ahead. >>
DC:
I think
that conciousness was enlarged by their broader vision when their
poetry
was built. That's why it still moves both literature and language.
Back to
Pound's definition that literature is news that stays news. And the
word
"ahead", isn't there some neat little Taoist or Zen trick I could
pull
here,
like pulling the tablecloth out from under the servings, leaving them
in
place?
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:19:43 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Memory Babe
In a
message dated 97-06-17 02:23:01 EDT, you write:
<<
Me, I will side with WSB. BTW, if
anyone is in touch with Bill, Hal
Norse asked about him and his health. He also asked me to pass that
along.
If you do and WSB replies, I told Hal I would mail it to him.
"This is the Kerouac I knew, his
sufferings and his exultations, his
elusive charisma and his maddening
moods. At last he has been treated
as the serious, searching soul he was. A great writer and a great
biographer have come together, and the result
is a book that is
essential for anyone interested in the
development of postwar American
Literature."
John Clellon Homes
I think these two men know what they are
talking about. To think that
some biographer would attempt to write a
biography about Jack Kerouac
without examining in detail Gerry's archives
seems to me to be a joke.
Gerry told me that a better book will be
written by the person who can
gain access to the notebooks of Jack, without
restrictions by third
parties, and to his archives. He also said he hopes it happens as his
work is what it was for the times it came
out.
It does not sound like to me the remarks of
an ego driven man solely
interested in his own fame. He has moved on to other subjects. >>
I just
started reading Memory Babe. The first two pages tell me that it will
be a
greatly written book.
Please
tell Hal Norse that my son and I visited Burroughs late last month. He
had
just had eye surgery but could see well. I showed him a post I had
printed.
He was chirper as ever. Couldn't sit still. We had just come from
Missoula.
He said his father used to take him fishing up there. He was going
out
shooting the next day into a steel cut out figure a fellow had brought
with
some guns that had been mangled. Bill looked at the guns and muttered
something
to the effect ... why would they want to do this. Never saw anyone
that
old that healthy. Still has a mischievious spark in his otherwise
distant
eyes like a kid who'll be up to something if you don't watch him.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:27:50 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Epiphany in kerouac
In a
message dated 97-06-17 05:25:25 EDT, you write:
<<
Watts may have been a better Buddhist; Kerouac more confused; but
clearly Kerouac had the larger soul. >>
Gerry:
The
last time I saw Watts was in the mineral baths in Big Sur. I didn't
notice
how big his soul was because I was looking at all the women who were
bathing
with him.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:46:19 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: levels
Rinaldo:
You are
on more levels than an elevator.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:59:29 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: To those following Insomniatic
Musings
Race:
I hope
your johnson rod doesn't fall off.
C.
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:14:05 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Zen commandments
In a
message dated 97-06-17 01:29:30 EDT, you write:
<< I don't suggest we don't read
Homer or Shakespeare or Eliot, only that we
recognize when the
consciousness of poetry is enlarged by a broader
vision that builds on
the works of the past and moves both
literature and language ahead. >>
DC:
I think
that conciousness was enlarged by their broader vision when their
poetry
was built. That's why it still moves both literature and language.
Back to
Pound's definition that literature is news that stays news. And the
word
"ahead", isn't there some neat little Taoist or Zen trick I could
pull
here,
like pulling the tablecloth out from under the servings, leaving them
in
place?
Charles
Plymell
trying
to resend as was rejected.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:18:09 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: more drugs and enlightenments
In a
message dated 97-06-17 19:46:24 EDT, you write:
<<
in these parts it was be careful what you pray for - you might get it >>
Thank
you Jeazshus.
C.
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:53:30 -0500
Reply-To: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: the old gun and the odd gun
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Dear
plymell, I appreciate your voice, your lack of sanctomony is a
blessed
event. My vote is for you to Never hesitate to tell us tales of
your
travels and impressions. You have seen and noticed many of those
day to
day events that place much in context for me.
The boys and i were talking about the future of the magazine , i
venture
the opinion that with the net the art will become multimedia,and
more
mobile, that a poem will be more than illustrated but
accomppanied. I am so excited by the forms that words have
taken in
front
of me, the buchenwald site an excellant example, the getting to
know
rinaldo suggests a smaller more intimate world than i dreamed of
before
the net.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 22:06:37 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: the old gun and the odd gun
MIME-Version:
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Patricia
Elliott wrote:
>
>
Dear plymell, I appreciate your voice, your lack of sanctomony is a
>
blessed event. My vote is for you to Never hesitate to tell us tales of
>
your travels and impressions. You have seen and noticed many of those
>
day to day events that place much in context for me.
> The boys and i were talking about the future of the magazine , i
>
venture the opinion that with the net the art will become multimedia,and
>
more mobile, that a poem will be more than illustrated but
>
accomppanied. I am so excited by the
forms that words have taken in
>
front of me, the buchenwald site an excellant example, the getting to
>
know rinaldo suggests a smaller more intimate world than i dreamed of
>
before the net.
> p
i agree
with this, but -
there
is something so distinct about the intimacy one feels staying in
the
B.Plymell bedroom at the new Beat Hotel in Lawrence that the
Internet
cannot ever replace in my mind.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:13:02 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Beat generation/Cantico di Frate
Sole/S.Francesco
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Rinaldo
Rasa wrote:
>
> Cantico di Frate Sole by Francesco d'Assisi (4 october 1226)
>
> Altissimu, onnipotente, bon Signore,
> tue so' le laude, la gloria e
l'honore et onne benedictione.
>
> Ad te solo, Altissimo, se konfano,
> et nullu homo ene dignu te mentovare.
>
>
5 Laudato sie, mi' Signore, cum
tucte le tue creature,
> spetialmente messor lo frate sole,
> lo qual'e' iorno, et allumini noi per
lui.
> Et ellu e' bellu e radiante cum
grande splendore:
> de te, Altissimo, porta
significatione.
>
>
10 Laudato si', mi' Signore, per
sora luna e le stelle:
> in celu l'ai formate clarite et
pretiose et belle.
> Laudato si', mi' Signore, per frate
vento
> et per aere et nubilo et sereno et
onne tempo,
> per lo quale a le tue creature dai
sustentamento.
>
>
15 Laudato si', mi' Signore, per
sor'aqua,
> la quale e' multo utile et humile et
pretiosa et casta.
>
> Laudato si', mi' Signore, per frate
focu,
> per lo quale ennallumini la nocte:
> ed ello e' bello et iocundo et
robustoso et forte.
>
>
20 Laudato si', mi' Signore, per
sora nostra matre terra,
> la quale ne sustenta et governa,
> et produce diversi fructi con
coloriti flori et herba.
>
> Laudato si', mi' Signore, per quelli
ke perdonano per lo tuo
> amore
> et sostengo infirmitate et
tribulatione.
>
25 Beati quelli ke 'l sosterranno
in pace,
> ka da te, Altissimo, sirano
incoronati.
>
> Laudato si', mi' Signore, per sora
nostra morte corporale,
> da la quale nullu homo vivente po'
skappare:
> guai a.cquelli ke morrano ne le
peccata mortali;
>
30 beati quelli ke trovara' ne le
tue sanctissime voluntati,
> ka la morte secunda no 'l farra'
male.
>
> Laudate e benedicete mi' Signore et
rengratiate
> e serviateli cum grande humilitate.
Rinaldo--
Here in
the suburbs of San Francisco--wishing I could read Italian--
Not
just figure out what I can from my vestigial Spanish and French
correlates--
Drinking
good tequila tho (100 percent agave azule--Cabrito), and even
better
GHB--not beeten and not bowed.
Say
hello to the ghost of Ezra Pound for me
Just
read Kaufman's poem on the City of San Francisco taking down the
statue
of St. Francis by Benny Buffano that used to stand in front of
the
church of St. Peter and St. Paul and North Beach of San Francisco
when
Jack and all were there. Remember the
statue myself. Hatched a
wild
plan for stealing it, but never did.
AFTERWARDS,
THEY SHALL DANCE
In the
city of St. Francis they have taken down the statue of St.
Francis,
And the
hummuingbirds all fly forward to protest, humming
feather poems.
Bodenheim
denounced everyone and wrote. Bodenheim
had
no sweet mariujana dreams,
Patriotic
muscateleer, did not die seriously, no poet love to
end with, gone.
Dylan
took the stones cat's nap at St. Vincent's, vaticaned
beer, do defense.
The
poem shouted from his nun-filled room, an insult to the
brain, nerves,
Save
now from Swansea, white horses, beer birds, snore
poems, Wales-bird.
Billy
Holiday got lost on the subway and stayed there
forever,
Raised
little peace-of-mind gardens in out of the way
stations,
And
will go on living in wrappers of jazz silence forever,
loved.
My face
feels like a living emotional relief map, forever wet.
My hair
is curling in anticipation of my own wild gardening.
But
Edgar Allan Poe died translated, in unpressed pants,
ended in light,
Surrounded
by estatic gold bugs, his hegira bless
by Baudelaire's orgy.
Whether
I am a poet or not, I use fifty dollars worth
of air every day, cool.
In
order to exist I hide behind stacks of red and blue poems
And
open little sensous parasols, signing the nail-in
the-foot song, drinking cool
beatitudes.
>From
"Cranial Guitar" edited by Gerry Nicoscia.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 22:19:17 -0500
Reply-To: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: the old gun and the odd gun
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RACE
--- wrote:
>
>
Patricia Elliott wrote:
>
>
>
> Dear plymell, I appreciate your voice, your lack of sanctomony is a
>
> blessed event. My vote is for you to Never hesitate to tell us tales of
>
> your travels and impressions. You have seen and noticed many of those
>
> day to day events that place much in context for me.
>
> The boys and i were talking about the future of the
magazine , i
>
> venture the opinion that with the net the art will become multimedia,and
>
> more mobile, that a poem will be more than illustrated but
>
> accomppanied. I am so excited by
the forms that words have taken in
>
> front of me, the buchenwald site an excellant example, the getting to
>
> know rinaldo suggests a smaller more intimate world than i dreamed of
>
> before the net.
>
> p
>
> i
agree with this, but -
>
there is something so distinct about the intimacy one feels staying in
>
the B.Plymell bedroom at the new Beat Hotel in Lawrence that the
>
Internet cannot ever replace in my mind.
>
>
david rhaesa
>
salina, Kansas
I have
place a guest book by the bed, and a large peice of drywall with
chalks
and markers in case the next vagrant is an artist. All the gals
said
you were a sweetie.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 23:58:03 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Found an old poem that scared me. But here goes.
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I found
this on an old computer disk tonight, so I figured I better do
something
with it before it seeks revenge upon me.
David, keep on
pumping
and plumbing man.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
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This
twisted loneliness stretches out like some stranger that is sucking the
life right out of me.
I try
to have hope but the future does not appear in the vision. It all seems
so close up and emeshed that I am suffocating
upon myself.
There
is only one life, one opportunity and I have almost blown this one. How
do I escape, or better yet, live through this
and drop the pain, the excess
baggage that is surely breaking my back?
It
seems so dark, so horrible that I am afraid of my soul, or afraid for it.
Who knows?
I wish
that someone could explain this to me or at least let me in on what is
going on around here. But, I think that we all have to, I have to
, learn it
on my own.
So, hey
give me a break or two, and I'll try to do the same for you.
Try and
help me understand where this feeling of terror and lostness comes from.
Are we really from a gone world? Is really all this bad? Or, is it just me?
I do not know. But at last, I'm going to try to find out.
Thank
you too!
--------------D100D98B7EEAA64E8AA856EB--
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 00:08:55 -0400
Reply-To: Marioka7@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: songs
HEY!!!!
been
tryin' to meet you.
Must be
the devil between us,
or holes
in my head,
Whores
in my bed,
But
Hey.
Where,
have you, been?
If you
go, i will surely die!
We're
chained, we're chai....ained
We're
chai...ai...ained
didn't
you hear my screams?
but you
were in my dreams!
you buy
me a soda...and try to molest me in a parking lot.
She's
my fave,
undressing
in the sun.
return
to me, cold.
forgiving
everyone.
got me
a movie
i want
you to know
slicin'
up eyeballs
I want
you to know
Girl
you're so groovy
I want
you to know
Don't
know about you
but I
wanna....... be your dog.
A
tattooed tit, says number 13.
Your
daddy was a mother's son, she whispered in my ear.
If
things get bad, we'll go to California.
Vamos a
jugar por la playa.
---------from
songs i listened to today, mostly the Pixies.
-----maya
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 22:13:31 -0700
Reply-To: James William Marshall
<iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Two Streams of Consciousness
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First
of all Id like to no what happened to Chuck.
Was it that last batch
or was
it the one before that. I don't want to
throw stones but theres a
beautiful
serene lake thats calling the flat stones and chuck is floatin wit
an
inner / outer tube round his waist thats wasted and provides an example
for
allthose who consider being sheep instead of rams. I enjoy more than I
detest
but I confess that the inanity of it all has me drinking tall.
short short
example
of
intelligent life. havnt red th list
b.for this. de facto onlee red a
canadian
lit server b.for. isolation. yep thats we canlit types. th
only
beating ive dun was aparentlee pleasent.
wut th hell r we relee nibblin here on
each others ears fer n.e ways
huh?
yeh sure may.b its a nice sensayshun but fer krysts sake nuthin. just
nuthin.
iduno ware th hell that wuz goin. may.b i 2 shud shoot my livr to
fuk n
liv to hell n b to limits uv flesh n write a shnazee novel r poetree
cycle
bout it but to wut ends.
fuk i shud eet sumtime but i
dont want to go thru th trubl
i kwote
i dont
kwote
y bothr
kwoting when theres so manee words that i kant keep trak uv n too
manee
thots that i dont giv a fuk bout n all these brains n so much cells n
so
manee caring b.ings that its all overwhelming n i (we, for i wont let th
"othr"
get his shot in th dark) its impossible to keep trak yet we do sumhow
dont
we? creeating ideeologies out of air n bits n bytes likher
nikoteenagers
floating around in ileegalities ignored by all yall stuk
inside
yerselvs not caring to leev th loops uv yester(right fukin NOW)day.
next
thanx. gotta get another beer.l HE QUOTES HIMSERLF YEP.
CUZ HE
S A SERLF A GODMAN SUMBITCHIN SERLF
and Ill always
b a minion to your opinions
but
dont care for caring cause caring ll only get you hurt n the end and the
end is
necessitated by a beginning so i dont c wat the fusss bout. were all
gonna
take that which weve heard or learned or weaved into a semi truth to
the
grave and a grave grave itll b since we exalt life the hole (freudian)
time
were alive and I just want to take my feet the fuck away from this
mediocre
medium which in no whay represents any being any feeling any
peeling
layers of who i am or u r or wat we (so patronizingly used) should
do and
blue is a color but more a feeling if u can see a feeling in colors
and if
you cant then to hell with u cause you cant see the difference tween
seeing
and feeling and there isn't one witch makes you stupid as satan
fighting
for heaven when god kicks ethereal ass.
switch.
SWITCH pull th fukin sWITCH goddamnit!!!
caring
makes yuh strong
hurtin
makes yuh wise
BULLSHIT!!!! i weave th web uv disillusion around myself
in hopes uv
sleeping
well
but i dont sleep. th splotch is gone my mind is
clear.
i wanted to spell celar clearly. clarity is made by th celar
page
ninetey nine
th
light uv th ii's is as a comme(n)t
and
zens aktivitee is as (((white))) lightnin
th
(s)word that kills th man
is th
(s)word that saves th man
page 99 ZEN FLESH ZEN BONES
odlee
enuf HE turnt to page 99 twice in a row as i rowt this askt to repeet
turnt
to th same page twice yep twice yep twice yep twice yep twice yep
aint
nuthin worse than REDUN dance eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
yer
frend, .
CHANGE (keep th sex)
Litening
struck four feet from where i sat stoned in a cemetary and i didn't
think
about how lucky i was just how poor of a shot that god was. christ i
couldve
nailed me. what the hell was he or she
or it or fuckit thinkin
because
with tran send dental omniscience youd think the crosshairs d be
straight
and im busy thinking i should be dead and gods a piss poor shot
with
fright potential but no precision and i exist drunkenly so i can be on
his or
her or its childish wavelength and make galaxies into pretty swirls
and
planets into breaks of radiation and the sky has turned dark but we
think
nothing of it in the coarse of a day.
new male
mail
screwin with my hed jeeeeezus this computadora is sum skareee shit.
listen
i dont care whose on this im jus tawkin jus not relee carin that this
is a
beet list (i dont like vegetables much n.e ways).
lets live lets write wrong lets not
give a fuk lets run thru th bush
b.ing
b.ing.bing.bing.bing.bing. sounds like sum budees car alarm goin off
there is no
world
sinseerlee
j.p.
harris
james. emmmmmmm marshall.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 01:08:21 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Second post
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Sorry
for the repetition, but the text didn't come out right on my email
reader. So, I will try with this html version. If you didn't like it
first
time, the delete key should be in reach of your right pinky. ;-)
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
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From:
bocelts@scsn.net (R. Bentz Kirby)
Organization:
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--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
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<P>This
twisted loneliness stretches out like some stranger that is sucking the
life right out of me.</P>
<BR
WP="BR1"><BR WP="BR2">
<P>I
try to have hope but the future does not appear in the vision. It all
seems so close up and
emeshed
that I am suffocating upon myself.</P>
<BR
WP="BR1"><BR WP="BR2">
<P>There
is only one life, one opportunity and I have almost blown this one.
How do I escape, or
better
yet, live through this and drop the pain, the excess baggage that is
surely breaking my back?</P>
<BR
WP="BR1"><BR WP="BR2">
<P>It
seems so dark, so horrible that I am afraid of my soul, or afraid for it.
Who knows?</P>
<BR
WP="BR1"><BR WP="BR2">
<P>I
wish that someone could explain this to me or at least let me in on what is
going on around here.
But, I
think that we all have to, I have to , learn it on my own.</P>
<BR
WP="BR1"><BR WP="BR2">
<P>So,
hey give me a break or two, and I'll try to do the same for you.</P>
<BR
WP="BR1"><BR WP="BR2">
<P>Try
and help me understand where this feeling of terror and lostness comes
from.
Are we really
from a
gone world? Is really all this
bad? Or, is it just me? I do not know.
But at last, I'm
going
to try to find out.</P>
<BR
WP="BR1"><BR WP="BR2">
<P>Thank
you too!</P>
</BODY>
</HTML>
--------------81597EF3B1783351B5B85148--
--------------744D22C0607122DABD6DF92F--
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 23:13:30 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Last of the Mocassins
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Just
wanted to urge all you other Beatophiles to
read Mr. Plymell's
book. Should read his pomes too, but that's
another post.
If
you're looking at it primarily as social history it is a great window
to the
early sixties in the west and midwest as the hip scene was
morphing
into the psychaedelic thing. Same time
roughly as Farina's
"Been
Down So Long." Very different
book. "Down" is the college
world
seen
with a folky sountrack.
"Mocassins" is urban and rural hip
intellectual
and working class with a sound track by Chuck Berry, Bo
Diddley
and Charley Parker, mixed by Wolfman Jack.
"On
the Road" without the sentimentality.
Plymell works like cimema
verite. The book begins and end with the death of
his sister but the
narrative
isn't plotted. Slices of life connected
principally by the
need to
keep moving. Wonderful characters and
those great old drugs.
"Oxybiotic
will make you neurotic."
A
definite thumbs up from this reader.
Buy the book. Charley deserves
the
money.
James
Stauffer
"Bruce
and I took off for Guadalajara, Old Mexico in his '52 Ford. Out
in the
pitch black of the Sonoran desert. No
lights on the horizon. If
we
turned the lights off it would be dark as a vault. The desert
coughed
up one star. Heads of horses would jut
out in from of the car
lights
and speed around the windshield like snow flakes only this was a
rare
dimension moving face, an archtypal horse face. A million years of
old
faces shining in the night. They were
not things that fly by night
toward
the windshields but horse faces! horse faces!
The ghost face of
all the
dead horses of the parched steppe of time.
And time itself
frozen
into that endless rain of horse faces!
The stars were their
bits. The supreme king of all rodents. The Pliocene pony and the horse
Pliohippus
. . .
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 23:50:21 +0000
Reply-To: wirtz@ridgecrest.ca.us
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike & Barbara Wirtz
<wirtz@RIDGECREST.CA.US>
Subject: Re: traditionalism
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>
>
Diane Carter wrote:
> .
. . Is it simply that you
>
> are a more of a traditionalist in your world and literary views?
>
> Ginsberg freed poetic language from the boundaries imposed by earlier
>
> poets, including Eliot. He took poetry to another level. Is there
>
> something about that level that bothers you?
>
> DC
Yes, I
am obviously more of a traditionalist...and to a degree sound is
as
important as the images and messages in poetry...otherwise it might
as well
be prose...a speech. And Ginsberg does
favor techniques used by
orators
moreso than poets. Also...I don't think
poetry had been "bound"
or
"enslaved" my sound devices....It is a kind of music where one may
choose
from a plethora of devices. And
honestly, Ginsberg is lacking in
that
area. I agree, his imagery and tone are powerful, but he relies
heavily
on parallelism and cataloging, but he never achieves the cadence
of
Whitman. Albeit....if cacophony and
anger are to be conveyed, he's
achieved
it....But I still don't think he's the finest poet of this
century.
Respectfully,
Barb
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 00:00:52 +0000
Reply-To: wirtz@ridgecrest.ca.us
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike & Barbara Wirtz
<wirtz@RIDGECREST.CA.US>
Subject: Re: lurker speaks
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Diane
Carter wrote:
>
>
Mike & Barbara Wirtz wrote:
>
>
>
> DC,
>
> Quoting Alexander
Pope: "True ease in writing comes
from art, not
>
> chance/ as those move easiest who have learned to dance"
>
> (Essay on Criticism) Let's
see...you say that TS Eliot is not
>
> memorable?....off the top of my head: "April is the cruellest month/
>
> breeding lilacs out the dead land/ Mixing memory and desire/ stirring
>
> dull roots with spring rain/
Winter kept us warm/ Covering earth in
>
> forgetful snow/ Feeding little life to dried tubers" An astounding
>
> beginning..... I find myself using Eliot extensively when teaching 20th
>
> C lit..cross referencing during Fitzgerald, the lost generation, Miller,
>
> etc......and I've never really had occasion to cross reference to
>
> Ginsberg...I think that speaks volumes.
I also tend to quote Eliot
>
> when speaking to people on the topic
of despair/hopelessness...in real
>
> life situations.... (more
later...kids are fighting...life)
>
> sorry about how I triedto post this earlier...it didn't work obviously
>
> (and I still don't have quite enough time to expound on my ideas of
>
> Pound and Eliot.....hopefully tonight I'll get more than ten minutes at
>
> a stretch)
>
> Barb
>
> I
would like to hear more about how you use Eliot when speaking to people
>
about despair/hopelessness in real life situations. I don't think the
>
fact that you don't cross-reference Ginsberg speaks volumes. I think it
>
means something is missing in your views of twentieth century poetry.
>
Are you implying that you teach twentieth century literature but do not
>
draw from the experience of beat writers?
I am still interested in why
>
you think Eliot is more appropriate than Ginsberg. Is it simply that you
>
are a more of a traditionalist in your world and literary views?
>
Ginsberg freed poetic language from the boundaries imposed by earlier
>
poets, including Eliot. He took poetry to another level. Is there
>
something about that level that bothers you?
> DC
I think
Eliot is more universal than Ginsberg... I think that Howl and
many of
his major works (and I have not by any means read the entire
canon)
are limited, and honestly will end up, not as the major voice of
the
20th C., but a voice of a period for a particular subsect of the
population. This year I taught Prufrock and Homework to
9th grade
honors
students.....very bright and open students...best I've had in
years...
Anyhow...they did respond positively to both poems...They liked
the
imagery of washing the dirty linen of American politics and
such...very
strong imagery....a cohesive poem. We
worked through Love
Song.....and
I was struck by the fact that weeks after, they still were
referring
to the poem...*grin* I figured they could really relate to the
crippling
self-consciousness...straight out of jr high)
They
referred back to the poem again and again......It is wonderful to
hear
"Dare I eat a peach?" from fifteen yr olds!....Anyhow...Eliot was
able to
transcend his time....doing so quite impressionably....through
more
sophisticated devices for a more complex , richer poem
Barb
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 00:08:03 +0000
Reply-To: wirtz@ridgecrest.ca.us
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike & Barbara Wirtz
<wirtz@RIDGECREST.CA.US>
Subject: Re: inspiration
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Diane
Carter wrote:
>
>
CVEditions@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
> In a message dated 97-06-15 17:59:38 EDT, you write:
>
>
>
> << Inspiration makes one poetic. >>
>
> DC
>
> Read any inspirational poetry recently? I get books of it in the mail. I'd
be
>
> glad to send you some. Most of them come from Arizona and Southern
>
> California. Lots of inspirational poets out there, too.
>
> Charles Plymell
>
>
Thanks anyway, I'll pass on that. I
would like to know, however, how you
>
characterize your own poetry. Did any
poets in particular influence you?
> I
decided to say influence instead of inspire.
What do you see as the
>
most important things that have happened in poetry in America, from say
>
the forties till now? Just curious.
> DC
I'm not
sure if this is directed at me (it did have the lurker title)
Anyhow...I
like your question.....it made me think...and I'd have to say
it
would be the voices of women....loud and strong...and finally heard
in the
20thC...I am awed by Plath, Sexton, Rich, Bishop, Levertov,
Walker....Women
with strong voices, writing on issues that concern not
only
women, but humanity.....confessionals with which most can
empathize...compelling
poetry..
Barb
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 00:23:25 +0000
Reply-To: wirtz@ridgecrest.ca.us
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike & Barbara Wirtz
<wirtz@RIDGECREST.CA.US>
Subject: Re: lurker speaks
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Diane Carter
wrote:
>
>
James Stauffer wrote:
>
>
>
> Diane Carter wrote:
>
> . . . Is it simply that you
>
> > are a more of a traditionalist in your world and literary views?
>
> > Ginsberg freed poetic language from the boundaries imposed by earlier
>
> > poets, including Eliot. He took poetry to another level. Is there
>
> > something about that level that bothers you?
>
> > DC
>
>
>
> You seem to be falling for the myth of progress here. Is more recent
>
> inspiration more legitimate somehow than an earlier inspiration? As an
>
> earlier poster pointed out well Eliot's early poems were revolutionary
>
> and meet a reception from the lit establishment not that different than
>
> the reaction to Howl. Both were
revolutionary poets in their times.
>
> Forty some years later Howl isn't the newest wave either. I think
>
> literary history is about change, not a progressive revolution. When I
>
> go back and read Homer I don't regret the fact that he didn't have the
>
> chance to reach Ginsberg's level of advancement.
>
>
>
> J Stauffer
>
> I
am absolutely not saying that recent inspiration is more legitimate
>
than earlier inspiration. Every era has
revolutionary poets/writers and
>
they are all equally important. I think
I am just reacting to the
>
classist mindset that would dismiss beat literature as secondary to other
>
forms of twentieth century literature.
I don't suggest we don't read
>
Homer or Shakespeare or Eliot, only that we recognize when the
>
consciousness of poetry is enlarged by a broader vision that builds on
>
the works of the past and moves both literature and language ahead.
>
Genius is genius no matter what time period. And as far as a progressive
>
revolution goes, the fact that you can read from Eliot on daytime radio
>
and you still cannot read from Howl suggests that Ginsberg's
>
contributions to literature are still misunderstood.
> DC
I
reread Howl this afternoon...and I think not so much that it is
misunderstood
as suffering from a very specialized and narrow
audience. I read it and thought.....period piece...I
don't think it
will
transcend time... Usually people can empathsize and relate to
another's
emotional trauma...but it is very difficult to connect to
Ginsberg
in Howl. I do have an appreciation for
the poem...he does
convey
some stunning ideas and displays verbal dexterity and wit...... I
feel as
if people who can relate, would really hoist this poem as the
icon of
the the time and/ or experience...it would be ...the emblem poem
that it
is.. But as a reader, I'm an outsider,
gawking and
rubber-necking
a tragedy I can only witness from afar and listen to the
howling
without ever wanting to howl myself.
Barb
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 03:28:08 -0400
Reply-To: GYENIS@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac: The meaning of life?
In a
message dated 97-06-17 07:28:55 EDT, dcarter@TOGETHER.NET (Diane Carter)
writes:
<<
The concept of heaven is a theological one and cannot exist without a
belief
in hell.
Churchs that teach there is a heaven also teach that there is a
hell.
Hence the concepts of good and evil.
That is totally different
than transcending the human condition into
another level of
consciousness, a timeless oneness with all
things. I don't think the
idea of heaven implies that you have another
chance, no matter what. >>
I think
religion's concept of heaven (and hell) is a way to have poor people
accept
their fate instead of fighting for justice.
It's a
way for many people to do what they want, knowing that they have a
chance
to repent at the end.
It
allows people to not be accountable for their actions here on earth,
because
they are being graded up in heaven.
And of
course, the real question is whether there really is a heaven. And if
there
isn't, it it acceptable to say there is a heaven just so that they (the
church)
can herd the people in a certain direction?
Hypothetical
question: Does a rock have a 'purpose'. Is it a bigger or
smaller
purpose then a human. Is it a better or worse purpose then a human's.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 03:28:11 -0400
Reply-To: GYENIS@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac: The meaning of life?
Comments:
cc: MemBabe@aol.com
In a
message dated 97-06-17 06:42:12 EDT, you write:
<<
Maya Gorton wrote:
>
> What do you mean by "meaning"?
Not sure i understand completely. You
oppose
> it to "randomness" and the
absence of morality. But can't there be
meaning
> in chaos and beyond the polarity of good
and bad?
> >>
Humans
are one of the few animals (if not the only animal) that are aware of
the
fact that they are going to die. They have this knowledge from a very
early
age and it becomes more acute as they
get older. Because of this
knowledge,
they have questions related to why are they going to die, what
happens
to them when they die, etc.
I think
"meaning" and "purpose", taken in this context, is really
asking are
we on
this planet just to live, and then die, and nothing thereafter. Or is
there a
meaning or purpose beyond that?
Religion
was one of the 'things' that stepped in to try to answer the
questions.
Other philosophies also cropped up to comfort the people in trying
to
answer these very disturbing questions.
I'm not
sure if the religions were: a) really
interested in finding the true
answer
to the questions; b) just serving the people's needs for believing in
something
so that they would just shut up; c) or another way to build up a
power
structure (the catholic church was one of the largest land owners in
the
world).
If they
tell me that the purpose of life is to ultimately get into heaven, I
hope
that they at least believe that there is a heaven. I have my doubts
though.
Some
people have responded on this list that the life we are living is the
purpose
of life and are content with that.
I say,
enjoy, Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 00:50:25 +0000
Reply-To: wirtz@ridgecrest.ca.us
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike & Barbara Wirtz
<wirtz@RIDGECREST.CA.US>
Subject: Best concept
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Hopefully
I'm caught up on all responses...I would like to point out
that
although I am defending Eliot as a better poet, I really didn't
want to
do so at the expense of Ginsberg...I would rather just present
Eliot
in all his genius, richness, complexity, and skill...and leave it
at
that. Unfortunately, that wasn't the
case. I did enjoy rereading
Ginsberg
and Eliot...so I think whoever posed the question really did a
service...and
I have enjoyed immensely the insights and input by those
participating.
(ummm...is
it my misperception...or were most of you around in the
'60's...living
a beat lifestyle... Sincerely, I'd just like to gauge.
To my
delight, it sounds as if many of you were part of the movement,
even
contributers! If so, what a boon! a celestial cyber site! I really
dropped
in because I'm reading Kerouac....but it seems as if I'll be
reading
much much more than just Kerouac!
Barb
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 05:18:26 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Best concept
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Mike
& Barbara Wirtz wrote:
>
>
Hopefully I'm caught up on all responses...I would like to point out
>
that although I am defending Eliot as a better poet, I really didn't
>
want to do so at the expense of Ginsberg...I would rather just present
>
Eliot in all his genius, richness, complexity, and skill...and leave it
> at
that. Unfortunately, that wasn't the
case. I did enjoy rereading
>
Ginsberg and Eliot...so I think whoever posed the question really did a
>
service...and I have enjoyed immensely the insights and input by those
>
participating.
>
(ummm...is it my misperception...or were most of you around in the
>
'60's...living a beat lifestyle... Sincerely, I'd just like to gauge.
> To
my delight, it sounds as if many of you were part of the movement,
>
even contributers! If so, what a boon! a celestial cyber site! I really
>
dropped in because I'm reading Kerouac....but it seems as if I'll be
>
reading much much more than just Kerouac!
>
Barb
i
started a thread awhile back about incorporating beat lit into high
school
curriculums. since you're reading some
Kerouac, do you think he
could
fit into the high school classroom?
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 07:52:55 -0400
Reply-To: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: blake and all
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mebbe
off topic but since subject of blake/ AG has come around again
(sorry,
very behind on mail and picking up long ago thread) is anyone
here
aware of greg brown's beautiful renditions of blake into song? CD is
titled
songs of innoncence and experience. the chimney sweeper has never
failed
to bring me to tears. music is
beautiful, has wonderful fiddle
player
(peter ostroususko) as well as rest of fellows on band.
highly
recommend it, absolutely soul wrenching interpretations in music of
the
lyrics mc
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 07:52:59 -0400
Reply-To: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: heroin and aging
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whoa
there! this thread may be dead, as i am crushed under tons of email
from a
few days away from list, but go down to any methadone clinic, any
innercity
and the idealism will fall away. i worked for 3 years in a new
haven
ct methadone clinic: i counseled i wept
and i buried so many people,
i've
been there myself. there is no glory in it there is no eternal youth
fountain
in it. tortured people tortured bodies. wsb is the exception to
the
rule. ok standing down from my soap box
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 11:03:14 EST
Reply-To: MORE OXY THAN MORON <breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MORE OXY THAN MORON
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Forwarded message
From: MX%"lena@sunflower.com" "Lena Marvin" 18-JUN-1997
00:20:52.28
To: MX%"breithau@kenyon.edu"
CC:
Subj: Re: Welcome!
I
willMORE OXY THAN MORON wrote:
>
>
ena, (my name is Lena but nice try)
>
> I
think you should stay on the list, it is a good group of people and we are
>
honored to have you as our youngest member! I hope you like it. say hello to
>
William Burroughs for us all. By the way, I met James Grauerholtz last night
>
for dinner in Columbus, Ohio. He is secretary to Mr. Burroughs, do you know
>
him? He was in town to drop off boxes of manuscripts to the special
collections
>
dept at Ohio State. Had a great time.
>
>
Again, welcome,
>
>
Dave Breithaupt
I am
not yet on the list, how do I get on?. I met James when we took
some
pie over to William and James was there and 2 outher people. I
think
they ate some pie too. When we where there a cat named fletch came
and was
very nice to me and James said "He (as in fletch) is leting you
do
thing that if I did I would get scratched." When we where leavng
James
said some thing like (I do not rember excatly)"We will rap up the
pie and
save it in the fridgerator and have it tommorow." but even
before
James could say "tommorow" William was geting a pie. It was a
starwberry
pie so he ate a stawberry of the top. When we were leaving, I
nodict
that there where these butiful roses so I walked over and I
smelled
them there was no sent I mean at all it smelt like air and
nothing
more. I had not nodict William had flowed us out and he said
aome
thing like I can not rember "you do not need to smell them the have
no
sent. They really have no sent at all do they?"
I
anserd "that is amazing there is no sent at all!"
And
then we left. But his house there is some thing to talk about it is
wonderful
it is really neat inside he has art work and a wonderful t.v.
set up.
Lena
P.S.
will you send this to the list?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:09:04 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Eliot vs. Ginsberg (was Re: lurker
speaks)
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>
Tony Trigilio wrote:
>
>
Diane--This reaction is exactly what prompted my post yesterday. And I
>
think it's what prompted James's post.
(The remark about Homer is
>
excellent, and worth remembering.) I
agree that your remarks are a
>
"reaction to a classist mindset":
a reaction that (seems to me)
>diminishes
>
Eliot's work itself rather than going after those folks who would trash
>
Ginsberg (maybe in favor of Eliot) without reading beyond the first few
>
lines of *Howl*. We have all met those
types of cultural guardians. I
>
have exhausted much bandwith on other literature lists with these
>folks.
>
For them, Eliot is a monument that poets like Ginsberg--and, by
>extension,
>
all of Allen's readers--would desecrate.
I don't buy their conception
>of
>
how readers and writers make literary history.
I think their view
>
fossilizes literature and culture, and does great disservice to the
>
substantive and energizing body of work produced by Eliot and Ginsberg.
>
I am not trying to diminish the work of Eliot
or importance. I
also don't think that when you speak of Eliot
and Ginsberg it is as
simple as saying that they both energized
poetry in different ways. I
don't see the historical progression of
poetry as a line where each
generation improves, so to speak, on the next
but more of a circle, here
all poets, consciously or unconsciously
contribute their uniqueness to
the concerns of poetry as a whole, which is
ultimately the concern of
humanness. As you wrote, in another post
"Eliot decries what he calls
Blake's formlessness." I see Blake as
ultimately a great model from
which
grew Ginsberg's vision of Molach. I don't see Ginsberg as being
influenced to any great degree by Eliot. Any scholars of Ginsberg out
there, speak up if I am wrong here. But the connection from Whitman to
Williams to Ginsberg is much clearer. I can
see why people are moved by
lines of Eliot, and why they are captivated
by the metaphysical and
symbolic implications of his poetry. Yet I see Eliot as being removed
by
a layer of something from his own verse. He does not write to America
about America or about individual experience
in a way that even in the
way that even Whitman did. He writes as if
there is a shroud between
himself and his words, and I think that
shroud is the formalness he
thought critical to a work of art. Eliot distances himself from art
while Ginsberg puts himself in the middle of
it. For someone writing in
American today, I see Ginsberg as a much
better model than Eliot.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 11:21:21 -0400
Reply-To: Sisyphus <sisyphus@POLARIS.MINDPORT.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sisyphus
<sisyphus@POLARIS.MINDPORT.NET>
Subject: Re: Zen commandments
Comments:
To: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
In-Reply-To:
<970617211200_1444418147@emout06.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version:
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On Tue,
17 Jun 1997, Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:
>
Back to Pound's definition that literature is news that stays news. And the
Hmmmmm,
just finished Twain's "Roughing It".
Seems to me that Pound is
right
on on that one.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:31:14 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: that old conciousness again
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Pamela
Beach Plymell wrote:
>
>
DC:
> I
think that conciousness was enlarged by their broader vision when their
>
poetry was built. That's why it still moves both literature and language.
>
Back to Pound's definition that literature is news that stays news. And the
>
word "ahead", isn't there some neat little Taoist or Zen trick I
could pull
>
here, like pulling the tablecloth out from under the servings, leaving them
> in
place?
>
Charles Plymell
I like
the concept that "literature is news that stays news." Great
literature
is timeless. What I take issue with is
the fact that
some of
the people who make up society and eventually history have a
limited
vision of what is possible.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 11:43:29 -0400
Reply-To: Sisyphus
<sisyphus@POLARIS.MINDPORT.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sisyphus <sisyphus@POLARIS.MINDPORT.NET>
Subject: Re: Best concept
Comments:
To: Mike & Barbara Wirtz <wirtz@ridgecrest.ca.us>
In-Reply-To: <33A730D0.63B3@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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On Wed,
18 Jun 1997, Mike & Barbara Wirtz wrote:
>
dropped in because I'm reading Kerouac....but it seems as if I'll be
>
reading much much more than just Kerouac!
You
might very well reading more. Do try
Gary Snyder's Turtle Island
(as
well as his others) since you're interested in poetry.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 11:52:33 -0400
Reply-To: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Windowpoopies
MIME-version:
1.0
Content-type:
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I
wonder what Kerouac meant by "windowpoopies" in the 13th chorus of
Mexico
City
Blues....actually, I don't care what it means...all I know is I
laughed
for about 20 minutes when I read that!!! Words have a tendency to
do that
to me sometimes......Probably why I love Kerouac. He played with
words,
and when I didn't find a word that suited him to express what he
wanted
to express, he made up is own. --Sara
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 11:56:25 -0400
Reply-To: Sisyphus
<sisyphus@POLARIS.MINDPORT.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sisyphus
<sisyphus@POLARIS.MINDPORT.NET>
Subject: Re: Windowpoopies
Comments:
To: Sara Feustle <sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970618115233.00694d50@uoft02.utoledo.edu>
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On Wed,
18 Jun 1997, Sara Feustle wrote:
> I
wonder what Kerouac meant by "windowpoopies" in the 13th chorus of
Mexico
>
City Blues....actually, I don't care what it means...all I know is I
>
laughed for about 20 minutes when I read that!!! Words have a tendency to
> do
that to me sometimes......Probably why I love Kerouac. He played with
>
words, and when I didn't find a word that suited him to express what he
>
wanted to express, he made up is own. --Sara
I was
just thinking the other day about the only good part to winter:
no
"windowpoopies" on my car windshield: No birds. Thanks for the
word.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:00:43 -0400
Reply-To: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Windowpoopies
Comments:
To: Sisyphus <sisyphus@polaris.mindport.net>
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.96.970618115354.23914G-100000@polaris.mindport.net>
MIME-version:
1.0
Content-type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
11:56 AM 6/18/97 -0400, Sisyphus wrote:
>On
Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Sara Feustle wrote:
>
>>
I wonder what Kerouac meant by "windowpoopies" in the 13th chorus of
Mexico
>>
City Blues....actually, I don't care what it means...all I know is I
>>
laughed for about 20 minutes when I read that!!! Words have a tendency to
>>
do that to me sometimes......Probably why I love Kerouac. He played with
>>
words, and when I didn't find a word that suited him to express what he
>>
wanted to express, he made up is own. --Sara
>
>I
was just thinking the other day about the only good part to winter:
>no
"windowpoopies" on my car windshield: No birds. Thanks for the
>word.
>
>
> It really is a good word, isn't it? My
car is loaded with "windowpoopies"
right
now, but that's OK, cuz'it doesn't look any better when it's not.....
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:49:19 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: lurker #254
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Pamela
Beach Plymell wrote:
>
>
DC:
>
You said inspiration makes one poetic. You might want to read my poem
>
Oxybiotic Will Make You Neurotic at WWW.BUCHENROTH.COM/CORNIXOXY.HTML. At 450
>
words per minute should make you flash (if it comes through right). You can
>
read other poems at www.buchenroth.com/cplymell.html especially Vernal
>
Equinox which happened as a dream at the very same time Allen dreamed of his
>
mother. One night in Washington Allen had read his poem about his mother
>
before he sent it to the NY Times for publication and I showed him the poem I
>
had written about my father since it was the exact same time of inspiration
>
for us both. He looked it over and suggested some changes. I published it
>
around and received lots of comments about it.
It would have been futile for
> me
to have sent it to the NY Times however. I wrote another poem In Memory of
> My
Father about which Allen said was one of the best elegies in the English
>
language.
> My
influences are about the same as everyone's in my generation, the Possum,
>
Pound, Allen, Harte Crane, Whitman. However, in contrast to Allen I thought
>
Williams and Olson were bores. I read Rexroth's translations mainly. Didn't
>
see much in the St. Mark's poets other than Jim Carroll. Didn't care for the
>
Beats as a whole, my favorite is Taylor Mead.
> I
think Allen's use of his stage was an eye opener and kept poetry free from
>
the academe for a while. Unfortunately Allen had to carry the baggage that he
>
packed which eventually dragged him down I think. For instance, Whitman's
>
breadth of compassion I felt was beyond the politics of the Civil War but
>
expressed the suffering and frailty of human action and spirit. I never got a
>
sense of religion in Pound's work though I felt he was more comfortable with
> many
gods. Ginsberg fell victim to politics and religion while greater poets
>
placed them in their more arbitrary roles. That is not to say that a poet
>
like Milton did not benefit by his religious lines, but I didn't feel he was
>
necessarily using his poetry to proselytize. Even his lines were imagistic
>
for his time. For example: "And all the spangled host keep watch in
squadrons
>
bright?" is as pure an image if not surreal as Crane's "and a serpent
swam a
>
vertex to the sun/ on unpaced beaches leaned its tongue and drummed." All
>
these lines are from memory so they may not be exact. BTW have you read me at
>
all?
>
Charles Plymell
I am
just starting to read your work. Have
visited your web site a
number
of times and intend to visit it many more.
I am just now sitting
here
ready to begin to read an autographed copy of Last of the Moccasins
that I
ordered from Jeffrey. I just got Dr.
Sax too, so maybe I can
enter
the Moccasins/Dr. Sax discussion at some point. As far as the
CORNIX
thing goes, can someone post as to what software one needs to
really
view it in the way it is meant to be viewed, and if it is possible
to
download it from somewhere. Also. I am
curious as to your opinion of
Joyce
and did you read him extensively at any point?
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:02:32 -0400
Reply-To: Sisyphus
<sisyphus@POLARIS.MINDPORT.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sisyphus
<sisyphus@POLARIS.MINDPORT.NET>
Subject: Re: Windowpoopies
Comments:
To: Sara Feustle <sfeustl@uoft02.utoledo.edu>
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19970618120043.00699954@uoft02.utoledo.edu>
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On Wed,
18 Jun 1997, Sara Feustle wrote:
>
> It really is a good word, isn't
it? My car is loaded with "windowpoopies"
>
right now, but that's OK, cuz'it doesn't look any better when it's not.....
Well,
at least it makes the car look rather disultory, disreputable and
decrepit. I leave mine that way to discourage thieves.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:07:12 -0400
Reply-To: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Windowpoopies
Comments:
To: Sisyphus <sisyphus@polaris.mindport.net>
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.96.970618120031.24706A-100000@polaris.mindport.net>
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At
12:02 PM 6/18/97 -0400, Sisyphus wrote:
>On
Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Sara Feustle wrote:
>
>>
> It really is a good word, isn't
it? My car is loaded with "windowpoopies"
>>
right now, but that's OK, cuz'it doesn't look any better when it's not.....
>
>Well,
at least it makes the car look rather disultory, disreputable and
>decrepit. I leave mine that way to discourage thieves.
>
>
Mine
looks that way anyway!!!! But has any poet/literary geek ever driven a
cool
car?
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:31:42 -0400
Reply-To: Marioka7@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: who was around in the 60's?
Date: 97-06-18 12:26:21 EDT
From: Marioka7
To: wirtz@ridgecrest.ca.us
In a
message dated 97-06-18 08:30:46 EDT, you write:
<<
(ummm...is it my misperception...or were most
of you around in the
'60's...living a beat lifestyle... Sincerely,
I'd just like to gauge. >>
I think
a lot were around, and are certainly more experienced at writing
(some
even ---GASP----published) than i am.
I just
turned 22, have been out of college for 1 year now. But i guess my
generation,
my friends i mean, are just as beat as beat can be. I hope to
take
what we can learn from the beats and push it one step further (isn't
that
the duty of the next generation?)
I would
be innerested to know about everyone else too.
I have tried to
guess,
but am often wrong. See
ya----------------maya
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:40:36 -0400
Reply-To: Sisyphus
<sisyphus@POLARIS.MINDPORT.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sisyphus
<sisyphus@POLARIS.MINDPORT.NET>
Subject: Re: who was around in the 60's?
Comments:
To: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
In-Reply-To:
<970618122637_-1261939077@emout16.mail.aol.com>
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On Wed,
18 Jun 1997, Maya Gorton wrote:
> I
would be innerested to know about everyone else too. I have tried to
>
guess, but am often wrong. See
ya----------------maya
I'm
55. Started reading Kerouac &
Ferlinghetti in the 50's while I was
in high
school. It stayed with me. During the 60's I discovered Welch,
Snyder,
Lamantia, Corso. Wasn't until an acid
trip in the early 70's on
Christmas
Eve at a party when I sat away from the turmoil and discovered
Howl. Been down lots of roads. Intend on doin` it again. (but with a
lot
fewer drugs these days. To hell with
the rest, I'll keep my pot 'n
beer.)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:47:50 -0400
Reply-To: Sara Feustle <sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Re: who was around in the 60's?
Comments:
To: Sisyphus <sisyphus@POLARIS.MINDPORT.NET>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970618123548.24706I-100000@polaris.mindport.net>
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I
myself am a whopping 21, and I am soooooo pissed off about all the stuff
I
missed for being born so late!!!! Anybody else in the same predicament?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:29:52 -0500
Reply-To: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: my cat ate my homework
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I was
downloading all my messages, 32, probably mostly beat-l my darn
cat
laid on my keyboard, my machine began flashing and the messages were
gone
man, i want todays messages. if any one can post them to me i would
really
appreciate, I looked in my trash and they weren't there, very bad
cat,
patricia
pelliott@sunflower.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 21:04:19 +0200
Reply-To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Beat generation/wild plan for
stealing...
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James
Stauffer writes,
>>>Just
read Kaufman's poem on the City of San Francisco taking down the
statue
of St. Francis by Benny Buffano that used to stand in front of
the
church of St. Peter and St. Paul and North Beach of San Francisco
when
Jack and all were there. Remember the
statue myself. Hatched a
wild
plan for stealing it, but never did.<<<
James,
thax
for the Kaufman's poem quoted, i like it, but
i hope
yr wild plaining to the statua of San Francesco in SF
is gone
for ever, please, james, do a "Fioretto" give
credit
to Francesco d'Assisi, & get rid yr bright idea.
if Jean
Louis Kerouac in his infancy & later was roman
catholic
it's honourable as zen or buddhism or likes
religions,
perhaps he or his mother narrated San Francesco's
life
& miracles & spontaneous prose & poetry...
btw
Philip Lamantia is true catholic:
CONTRA SATANUS by Philip Lamantia
Thy light is higher than
light thy Angels higher than angels
Moons whisper their lights it's the end of the world
Fasting
and reborn The Crystal forms out of moonlight and sunlight
Day and
night Green Crystal Red WHITE BLACK BLUE CRYSTAL
YELLOW CRYSTAL
BROWN
CRYSTAL!!
I am Hymnon riding ham/wings
of ACQUARIAS BEARDS OF SAMOTHRACE
JONQUILS
FROM DESERTS OF THE SEA
In my nights of white photography my
mountain fell
my
heads rolled dice in heaven my eyes poured out poison
In my
day of love in my day of love I saw
one rock one strata
one pinnacle one tree
one vine one spring of
green one flower
one
man
one
woman I loved I am Pythagoras
Agitator
smiling
from infide blue coins I am paid by
light
lights
is
house
of
MINT!
GARDEN LIGHT
OF OF THE my finger is God!
HIS
MONIES
GARDEN
WAVES
WAVES WAVES
WAVES WAVES
-it's
indesript/I have gone into inaudia - flocking sun on my
flocking
back+++++ROAR! MALDORORIAN
WAVES!
I!+++++
Angel I have not
seen/Angel I've seen
Light
of darkness
visitation of noname about to
smash into SMILES
Here is
face of old water Man buried in quickgreen lime fountains of
ZUT GUT
accent over U
-the WAVES! PHOTO
JOURNAL SEA SCAPES fin.
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:43:04 -0400
Reply-To: lcrev@law.emory.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: lablugirl <lcrev@LAW.EMORY.EDU>
Subject: Re: who was around in the 60's?
Comments:
To: Sara Feustle <sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
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Sara
Feustle wrote:
> I
myself am a whopping 21, and I am soooooo pissed off about all the stuff I
missed for being born so late!!!! Anybody
else in the same predicament?
- I
myself am 22. I used to be pissed off about the fact I was 'born too
late',
but most of my friends are at least 25 - said I'm still a baby...
I have
come to a new level of life lately. I spent the last few years
being
miserable, w/ miserable people, living in miserable places, and it
was all
so incredibly negative...
I was
in a horrible stagnant unmotivated, uncreative state (very un-like
me)
I still
am moody. [re: chemical imbalance, ???} - but I've found someone
to
share the things I value & we both love to create - this person is
older
& very intelligent & things are going beautifully... I get my
solitary
time to do what I please & so does he.
Mabye
it's a sort of 'enlightenment' - and it has given me somthing
positive
to grow with. I'm meeting people who come from all different
age
groups, exceptional people, & realizing that you can't dwell on the
past,
but learn from them & aprechiate it, and that brings much beauty &
happiness
to your life - I feel my inspiration returning...
Alice
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 15:41:47 -0500
Reply-To: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Jo and Jeff
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Thanks,
Jo G sent me what i believe to be the bulk of todays mail ,
calling
in the darkness and the beat responds with heart. I finally
sent in
my money for the beat l teeshirt, so do you think it will be
here
before s clay hits town (lawrence) i want to be a cool, old, fat
and
faded hippy fan. keep on trucking you persons.
patricia