=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 19:41:57 -0700
Reply-To: mike@infinet.com
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From: "Michael L. Buchenroth"
<mike@INFINET.COM>
Organization:
Buchenroth Publishing Company
Subject: Re: forlorn rags of growing old
Comments:
To: Sinverg|enza <ljilk@GUINAN.MPS.ORG>
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Sinverg=FCenza
wrote:
=20
>
yeah. the only reason we do anything is because we know we're going to =
die.
I
agree, we we live and we die. And when our switch gets clicked, it
just
gets clicked! What the hellare we supposed to do about it? Why try
ta
fight fate. The light a lamp makes can't keep the lamp's switch
unclicked
no more than street-light light can control dawn or dawn
control
dusk. Click switching cycles just exist. Stars go supernova and
lightening
bugs mind meld with windshields.=20
This
kid about 3 weeks ago run head on into this electric pole. He was a
bit
drunk so he survived the crash with just a few scratches. But fate
had
predetermined to click his switch with that accident and when the
pole
didn't click it, the live wire he stepped on did! A 50,000-volt
click.
Or it was more like BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ......KKKKK zzzzzKKkkk=20
you
know some sound like that and then some burning flesh smells and so
on. He
was meant to die there one way or the other. Little exists one
could
do to change it.
And
then last July 4th in Reynoldsburg, Ohio this guy's switch was
predetermined
off. This fireworks steel shell casing exploded like a
big-ass
bomb rather than towards the sky. A nice size piece of this
steel
shrapnel chunk of steel sharp and jagged from the blast commenced
retrorocketing
parallel with the ground generally out towards all the
fireworks
patrons of that nice Reynoldsburg community celebrating the
good
ole USA's independence and fasten your seatbelt, drive 65 and don't
smoke
dope justice for all concepts. It was like Russian Roulette with
all the
fans as players. Whose gonna die today folks, let's see.... Well
this
bullet-like chunk of iron at God Speed clinked off a steel swingset
there
in that park ricocheting it off at an angle to its original
trajectory,
tantalizing these roulette players, all in less than a split
second
so fast no one could really see it no more than one can see a
bullet,
it was there in the air looking for a life switch to click. This
guy had
been laying on his back on a blanket with his daughter perched
upon
his stomach both looking up at the sky oohing and awwwwing at the
red,
white and blue explosions high above. He put his daughter aside,
sat up,
and Ka-fuck'n-whack, his switch clicked!
The
big-ass piece of sharp-ass, jagged-ass steel shrapnel buried itself
deep
into his chest cavity. He died on the spot. I suppose a moment or
two
elapsed between the initial contact and the time his switched
clicked
off, but who would have noticed. It all happened so fast. That
shrapnel
had that guy's name on it. It was a fate guided missile on a
mission
to click that guy's switch. And it clicked it! Off! Think of the
odds
and all the chaos theory that unfolded those events? It binged off
a
playground swingset, barely missed some folks, the guy just sat up,
etc. If
it would have went straight someone else would have got it. It
coulda
peeled his daughter's head off and continued on to brutalize
other
roulette participants--a serial kill'n chunk a iron! Fate clicked
that
specific guy's switch and what could anyone do about that?
Nothing!
I have
many other stories to support my click theory. I get them from
the
newspaper all the time. Like this guy sit'n in his reclining chair
in his
living room watching TV and reading the newspaper when a
meteorite
burns through the roof, the rafters, the upstairs bedroom
floor,
the living room ceiling, and welds itself to this guy's skull. A
damn
meteorite from outer space! God Damn, what the hell can anyone
possibly
do about that?
Nothing!
If a
meteorite from space has your name on it, hell bent to click your
switch,
it'll click it. It'll click it wherever you might be. It's all
not
that much different than the choice we had as to when we were gonna
get
born, or who we were gonna be, or even what we was gonna be. Fate
determines
those things.
Fate.
Just
like fate determined who we were to be born as, what our minds
would
be like, etc. Fate probably even enrolled us inta school. That's
why I
don't understand so easily why so many folks have all this
resentment
inside, and sadness, and pain, and so on. What the hell
control
did they have over anything that happened to them as a child?
What?
How could they have changed anything? Why can't we as human beings
just
look into ourselves, see who we are this damn time, and live on
with it
as fate desires? Shit. We get a finite number of summertimes to
enjoy,
bowls of homemade ice cream to swallow, fish to catch, mornings
to get
up, prior to that one predeterminately privatized meteorite in
orbit
up there in outer space loosing altitude and drag'n ass due to the
friction
with the atmosphere and dip'n on in, blazing-ass burn'n through
the
night sky--fall'n star--to click your switch! Off. And that's if
we're
lucky to go out in such a CNN-
newsworthy
blaze of glory. Most folks just get the hand clapper--clap
clap--and
its clicked; a stroke sleeping, or a cancer dying, or old age
ending.
Ever
remember throwing a pillow or something and it accidentally clicks
off the
light switch? Well if some bug or amebocite or some life form
was in
that room that needed light to sustain life, lived only while
light
fed it, lived life cycles according to when and when not light fed
it,
etc. it would die due to that damn accidental pillow click! Or if
someone
slams inta a light pole a few blocks away and the lights go out
in a
few city blocks, think of all those amebocites dying due to that
accidental
power outage. And shit, that New York State blackout wiped
out
amebocite civilizations! --a
Bubonic
Plague-like epidemic. Fate works big and small.
Think
of those poor innocently swimming fish humans catch, and then fry?
Would
'bout those guys? And the worm you feed that fated fish? Do you
think
that worm likes to swim? If worms like water so much, why aren't
they in
it? They stay in the dirt cuz they like the dirt. They don't
particularly
enjoy get'n their guts hooked, a carpet knife-like, street
fight'n,
gut wrench'n, jab with a barbed hook, and then wiggl'n ass'd,=20
tossed
overboard 10 foot deep fish food so as to snare a baby blue gill,
just
barely outta minnowhood! That's a handsome catch there, a 1-inch
fish!
If we catch a couple more like that one, we can make us a fish
stick!
--support a cliche.
Fate
determines everything. And everything just exists. That is Mike's
Theory
of Everything: The Fish stick TOE....stub'd on a rock, bit by an
ant,
and fungus covered need'n some kind of pharmaceutically corporate
fungicide
to clear it up! I knew this guy who dipped his feet into sheep
dip to
kill his athlete's foot. Indeed, it burned that pesky-ass,
scratch-resistant
fungus off along with several epidermal layers
including
his hide! Burn't his feet blood red. Plus he got plenty of
dope
there in the hospital while recovering from this third degree
encounter
with fate... Some folks argue that this guy, Darrell, burn't
his
feet on his own accord--that fate had nothing' to do with it. They
say, of
course, the undiluted sheep dip did it, but Darrell put his feet
in it.
And I counter example by asking how did Darrell come by that
chemical
cocktail and then the high-octane, fast act'n Tatactin desire
to deep
fry his damn feet? Did Darrell act alone? Sheep dip needs
diluted
perhaps 100 gallons of water per one gallon of dip! What on
earth
could have prompted Darrell to submerge his feet into undiluted
dip.
Christ, when dipped diluted, sheep act nuts and Darrell has
witnessed
the terror in their eyes numerous times--enough to know,
anyway,
dipped ticks drop dead right off dipped sheep! Dip clicks ticks'
switches
like gasolene ignites. Darrell knew dip demographics all too
well.
Fate dipped Darrell's feet into that undiluted dip!=20
In the
hospital, doped and pained, Darrell asked to no one in
particular,
perhaps to himself, "what in the hell made me do it?"
Fate
did it, Darrell, fate did it...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:08:02 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Drugs & Spontaneity
In a
message dated 97-06-25 04:34:02 EDT, you write:
<<
I'm much
more concerned with the product as opposed to
the act of creating. >>
I just
finished listening to a CD Allen gave me last November Kronos Quartet
* HOWL,
U.S.A. Hmmmm..... Should I now hear
Anne Sexton?
C.
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:20:33 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: the last time i committed suicide.
In a
message dated 97-06-25 04:35:43 EDT, you write:
<<
(The one that starts off "To have seen a specter isn't
everything..) >>
When
Allen and I "talked poetry" c 1963,
It was obivious he was a good
learner,
which, I suppose one has to be, to be a good teacher. He kept asking
me the
MEANING of the lines of Blake I had quoted. "Each man is in his
Specter's
power/until the arrival of that hour/when his humanity awakes/and
castes
that Specter in the lake."
(might
not be exact...quoting from memory.) He was very persistent, like I
knew
something about it. It was a big "thread" for a while. Neal often
picked
up
on discussions and jumped the words to
his own battery. I wondered if he
had
discussed the same poem with Allen previously.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:26:21 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: dear abby...MARRIAGE! (HELP!)
Some
one suggested adding more chlorine to the gene pool.
C.
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:29:32 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Role of the Poet
In a
message dated 97-06-25 05:12:19 EDT, you write:
<<
I don't know, but I bet Blake and Ginsberg did. Why can't divinity be
found/invoked? in the craftmanship of
creating? >>
I find
Blake's madness sometimes boring. I love his shorter poems and liked
the
story that he ran naked in his garden. I think Allen's "statement" of
nakedness
was just the thing for the 50's culture vulture and eggheads.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 19:35:50 -0500
Reply-To: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Skau <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: more ketchup
Content-Type:
text
Hi
again!
I still
haven't completely caught up (about 100 messages behind now),
but I
wanted to take a moment to address some responses to my previous
mailing.
Arthur:
the _Junky_ quote strikes me as an allusion to Eliot's measured-
out
life, but with a crucial difference: the junkie measures out his life by
putting
it continually in a state of emergency. Prufrock's life is completely
bland,
vanilla; he needs the coffee just to stay awake in his world. The
junky's
situation may be also be a trap, but at the other extreme from
Prufrock's.
Diane:
regarding Eliot's visionary qualities--I see him as resembling the
mystic's
"dark night of the soul" (St. John of the Cross). "Prufrock"
concludes
with the mermaid vision of escape from his drowning in the
world
around him (I think Marie quoted the passage); _The Waste Land_
creates
an apocalyptic world which has a number of significant parallels
to that
of _Howl_, and the message of the thunder offers a trace of hope
in the
sterile land. Part II of "Ash Wednesday" begins, "Lady, three
white
leopards sat under a juniper-tree / In the cool of the day, having
fed to
satiety / On my legs my heart my liver and that which had been
contained
/ In the hollow round of my skull. And God said / Shall these
bones
live?" Is there a definition of _visionary_ which this does satisfy?
All 4
voices of the _Four Quartets_ also provide the spiritual visions,
particularly
at the end of Little Gidding, where the sins of the garden
are
purified and redeemed by the fire and the rose.
Joseph:
Snyder's notion of documentation is one I find attractive, but
I
cannot help but believe that the art I value goes beyond that (I will
elaborate
more in my next mailing).
Charley:
I had been glancing at an issue of _Soft Need_ (#9) at an article
of
Burroughs about Brion Gysin's paintings, and I had noticed your "Coca,
Saturn,
and Sun": Part 1 was entitled Hallucination Dissertation Manifesto,
and
Part 2, interestingly enough, is titled Attila Over the Rooftops.
Sometimes
my brain puts handcuffs on certain title, and I carry them around
with me
for days on end. At any rate the first section's title occurred to me
in
connection with the point I was making in my previous note, so I cited it.
To
anyone who has read this far, a bonus on women writers: Edgar Allan Poe,
in
reviewing a poetry anthology published in the 19th century, commented on
the
small number of women included; he concluded that, if women are not well
represented
among the great poets, it is because the great poems have yet
to be
written. How's that for a compliment coming from a writer not usually
associated
with the women's movement.
I would
also like to comment on the issue of spontaneous writing, but I will use
another
mailing.
Cordially,
Mike
Skau
6/25/97
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:36:12 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: How to love a woman long distance...
Marlene
Dietrich said that: "In America sex is an obsession; in Europe it is
a
fact."
C.
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:35:33 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: the last time i committed suicide.
Comments:
To: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
In-Reply-To:
<970625201949_1689248464@emout20.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
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On Wed,
25 Jun 1997, Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:
>
When Allen and I "talked poetry" c 1963, It was obivious he was a good
>
learner, which, I suppose one has to be, to be a good teacher. He kept asking
> me
the MEANING of the lines of Blake I had quoted. "Each man is in his
>
Specter's power/until the arrival of that hour/when his humanity awakes/and
>
castes that Specter in the lake."
So
what'd you say?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:05:02 -0500
Reply-To: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: spontaneity and writing
Content-Type:
text
Hi
again!
I've
always felt uncomfortable with the whole first-thought-best-
thought
concept, which not even Kerouac and Ginsberg seem to have
been
able to adhere to.
Back
when I was in college, I found myself very depressed at one point.
The
woman I had been seeing had dumped me and now was dating one of my
friends.
I felt doubly betrayed, and not having Maya's voodoo skills
I kept
all my pain inside. One night when the bars closed, I was walking
home
drunk and depressed. The night was bitterly cold, and I had about 5
miles
to walk to get home. I came to the Newman House on campus and
decided
that I needed to talk to a priest (I had been raised as a Catholic,
but at this point in the story, I had not
been to church for over 3
years),
but the housekeeper would not wake the priest up. With this 3rd
betrayal,
I returned to the wintry weather. About a mile from home, I had
to
cross two parallel sets of railroad tracks, and in the distance I saw
the
light of a train heading my way. I sat down in the middle of the tracks
and
decided that if the train were on my tracks I was a goner. Well,
as you
probably guessed, the train was on the other track. I picked myself
up and
walked on home with my wet pants leg freezing to my thigh. The point
is that
I don't think that my spontaneous decision was a very healthy one,
and I
have difficulty endorsing as a principle for art a principle I could
not
endorse for life. Years later, at a poetry reading at Naropa Institute
in
Boulder, I heard Gregory Corso address the same principle of first-
thought-best-thought
and arrive at virtually the same conclusion: he read a
poem
which I think is still unpublished and concluded, "on second thought
I
decided not to jump off the Empire State Building."
Someone
earlier cited Burroughs's notion that the writer tells the reader
something
the reader knows but does not know s/he knows; perhaps the same
thing
works for the writer, who as artist writes something s/he knows but
does
not know s/he knows. I believe that every great work of art (and even
many
that are not great) is a learning experience for the artist, a moment
of
growth. The work of art may "document" (Snyder's term, as Joseph
Neudorfer
pointed
out to us) that moment, but if the artist has truly grown, then
s/he
ought to be able to improve upon it--the process then would be endless.
Tolstoy
(not a Beat, but a great writer nonetheless) once said that a work
of art
is never finished--it is only abandoned.
Well, I
did not mean to go on at quite such length. Apologies.
Cordially,
Mike
Skau
6/25/97
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:59:19 -0700
Reply-To: mike@infinet.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael L. Buchenroth"
<mike@INFINET.COM>
Organization:
Buchenroth Publishing Company
Subject: Re: Role of the Poet
<<craps>>
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Pamela
Beach Plymell wrote:
> I
heard on the news that one of our main exports to China is chicken > feet
which they eat as a delicacy. Now we know the
Colonel Sanders > connection. I
don't how many chicken feet the Chinese will
eat in Hong > Kong next week.
Here in
Columbus, Ohio, a local vending machine company, Sanese, serves
Chicken
Beak BBQ Sandwiches in vending machines for $1.50. They're not
bad as
long as they grind 'er up real good. And a couple buddies, on a
couple
occasions swore they'd bit into a piece a hoof in their BBQ Pork
Sandwiches.
When a
hog or a chicken goes into Sanese, nothing comes out but
sandwiches....
-Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:23:37 -0400
Reply-To: Greg Elwell <elwellg@VOICENET.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Greg Elwell
<elwellg@VOICENET.COM>
Subject: Re: spontaneity and writing
Comments:
To: Michael Skau <mskau@cwis.unomaha.edu>
Mime-Version:
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I
remember reading something about WSB, and he was saying that he wasn't a
big fan
of spontaneity because he finds that by being spontaneous, he runs
out of
stuff to write. He prefers to write a chapter, for example, and then
go back
and revise it. But, as it was mentioned
earlier, each
writer/artist,
or combonation of both, well whatever you do, each person
has
their own method of doing whatever.
At
08:05 PM 6/25/97 -0500, Michael Skau wrote:
>Hi
again!
>I've
always felt uncomfortable with the whole first-thought-best-
>thought
concept, which not even Kerouac and Ginsberg seem to have
>been
able to adhere to.
>Back
when I was in college, I found myself very depressed at one point.
>The
woman I had been seeing had dumped me and now was dating one of my
>friends.
I felt doubly betrayed, and not having Maya's voodoo skills
>I
kept all my pain inside. One night when the bars closed, I was walking
>home
drunk and depressed. The night was bitterly cold, and I had about 5
>miles
to walk to get home. I came to the Newman House on campus and
>decided
that I needed to talk to a priest (I had been raised as a Catholic,
>
but at this point in the story, I had not been to church for over 3
>years),
but the housekeeper would not wake the priest up. With this 3rd
>betrayal,
I returned to the wintry weather. About a mile from home, I had
>to
cross two parallel sets of railroad tracks, and in the distance I saw
>the
light of a train heading my way. I sat down in the middle of the tracks
>and
decided that if the train were on my tracks I was a goner. Well,
>as
you probably guessed, the train was on the other track. I picked myself
>up
and walked on home with my wet pants leg freezing to my thigh. The point
>is
that I don't think that my spontaneous decision was a very healthy one,
>and
I have difficulty endorsing as a principle for art a principle I could
>not
endorse for life. Years later, at a poetry reading at Naropa Institute
>in
Boulder, I heard Gregory Corso address the same principle of first-
>thought-best-thought
and arrive at virtually the same conclusion: he read a
>poem
which I think is still unpublished and concluded, "on second thought
>I
decided not to jump off the Empire State Building."
>Someone
earlier cited Burroughs's notion that the writer tells the reader
>something
the reader knows but does not know s/he knows; perhaps the same
>thing
works for the writer, who as artist writes something s/he knows but
>does
not know s/he knows. I believe that every great work of art (and even
>many
that are not great) is a learning experience for the artist, a moment
>of
growth. The work of art may "document" (Snyder's term, as Joseph
Neudorfer
>pointed
out to us) that moment, but if the artist has truly grown, then
>s/he
ought to be able to improve upon it--the process then would be endless.
>Tolstoy
(not a Beat, but a great writer nonetheless) once said that a work
>of
art is never finished--it is only abandoned.
>Well,
I did not mean to go on at quite such length. Apologies.
>Cordially,
>Mike
Skau
>6/25/97
>
>
ge elwellg@voicenet.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:32:47 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: original thought
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If
there is an original thought out there, I could use it right now.
Dylan/Shepard
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 22:42:39 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Death of a Poet
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Penn,
Douglas, K wrote:
>
>
yes, I completely agree. yet, yet,
hesitate to make such claims.
>
feeling that creative act in me, seeing it given form, *I* have fear.
>
yes. *I* have fear. Do not want a messiah complex. do not want to
>
believe that such a "missle" (to quote patricia) could create or
>
destroy. Do not want to ask, why me?,
my lord, why me?
>
rather, I would distribute this gift accordingly, to everyone and
>
everything. To those whose work goes
unrecognized. those who make
> circuit
boards for a living. those who
teach. those who floss their
>
teeth. Simply put, those who establish
an act of being, those are
>
creative acts. creative people.
>
> I
do not want to separate the creative act from normal quote unquote
>
life. If god is in the details and true
life is better than fiction,
>
then please, let us leave both there.
as they be, and let us be
>
grateful to recognize their existence.
amen.
>
> A
string of sayings floating thru me head, "power, absolute power [read
>
creative act] corrupts absolutely".
This is what I meant by fear [or
>
partially].
>
>
cheers, Douglas
I take
it you do not want to follow the route of the tortured artist,
saying,
"Why me, God?" Not a route I
would choose either. However, words
are
powerful, any way you look at it, and from my view, all poets are
burdened
with knowledge that can create or destroy.
In your second
paragraph,
I see Ginsberg's work as applicable.
Poetry cannot be
separated
from the act of being. The subjects
poetry addresses are not
necessarily
higher or loftier than those of people getting up in the
morning
and going to work, whatever their profession may be, or making
love or
flossing your teeth. In the voice of
the poet, these acts that
make us
human also take on new knowledge and meaning.
Absolute power
(read
creative act/godlike) does not need to corrupt absolutely. Godlike
does
not necessarily mean messiah-like.
Perhaps it is the power to see
infinity
and immortality in little acts of humanness.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 22:51:48 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Drugs & Spontaneity
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Pamela
Beach Plymell wrote:
>
> In
a message dated 97-06-25 04:34:02 EDT, you write:
>
> I
just finished listening to a CD Allen gave me last November Kronos Quartet
> *
HOWL, U.S.A. Hmmmm..... Should I now
hear Anne Sexton?
> C.
Plymell
I hope
not. I have to say that I went through
a period long ago where I
read
everything Anne Sexton wrote. Today all
I remember are similes of
life
likened to moths and earthworms. And
although I vaguely remember
that
she won the Pulitzer Prize at some point, my only vivid recollection
from
her work and life is that she commited suicide.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 22:09:40 -0400
Reply-To: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: messing 'round
MIME-Version:
1.0
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some
antics
Now
here
is
nowhere
is
a
God
is
a
dog
as
anywhere
is
any where
is
nowhere
Words are
not
doors and
i
am
not
a
word but
i
am
also
not
a
door
you
guess
it's
your
turn still
Eric
Sapp
rhs4@crystal.palace.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 23:04:39 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: spontaneity and writing
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Michael
Skau wrote:
>
>
Someone earlier cited Burroughs's notion that the writer tells the
>reader
>
something the reader knows but does not know s/he knows; perhaps the
>same
>
thing works for the writer, who as artist writes something s/he knows but
>
does not know s/he knows.
I
believe this often to be the case.
However, revision is not
necessarily
the opposite of first-thought, best-thought.
The initial
idea or
stream of first-thought, best-thought, can remain and only be
further
illuminated. Doesn't mean you lose that first thought in the
revision
process.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:12:29 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: FireWalk saga again
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forgot
to include this one before as well.
this is the second piece in
the
collection.
from
FireWalk Thru Madness copyright December 1992 David B. Rhaesa
COLT -
45
While
reading Steppenwolf, Harry Haller=92s records -- =93for Madmen Only=
=94
-- the
memory returned. An auditory memory.
LAUGHTER !!!!!!!!
The
sinister laughter, cackling laughter, angry - hateful - insane
laughter
which came from her mouth, reflected a voice which was new to
me - a
voice never heard from the auburn haired ghost before. The
auburn
haired man of stone, listening from the blue room, heard my stern
words,
finally escaping my cowardice, finally standing up for myself,
standing
up to the ghost who owned my soul. But
the stone man=92s ears
were
deaf when it came to her laughter. He
did not witness the
insanity,
the complete possession of her mind by irrational evil forces.
The
forces of evil and insanity came in voices John had warned of ....
The
voices of the pit, beckoning those who could hear to take the step
of
faith into the realm of unreason to the joy of insanity. She had
taken
the step and in the laughs only I could hear a cry of help.
In a
brief codependent moment, I foolishly believed that I was her
savior,
that I was the only one on earth who could rescue her from the
caverns
she had fallen into. I conjured the
abyss in my mind and leaped
in.
For
nearly six months my mind slipped in and out of realities, fantasies
-- one
never knew the real from the fiction. =20
I met
the Biafran Jew
who
read my palm, discussing rainmaking he promised me a trip to
meet his
medicine
man and learn time travel. A
sorcerer....and threatened my
friends
and I fought his mind and he made my body move through space and
time to
places I have never known. He
distracted me momentarily with an
hallucination
of Black Moses leading his people out of Egypt to a
promised
land in the other direction from Israel; and then I saw a Black
Jesus
nailed to a Black Cross and then a Woman Named Moses with Auburn
Hair ----
and they burned her at the stake like Joan of Arc ....... then
someone
bumped me on the ped mall and I was safe and the sorcerer left
to
torment someone else.
I sat
at the river Styx -- day after day with a deck of cards playing
solitaire
-- a game called patience/ a game called Idiot=92s delight.=20
Playing
cards with myself. Playing with
myself. Invisible to most. =20
I sang
to myself as I turned the cards over and over again the last
lines
from Shelter from the Storm - -
=93If I could only turn back the clock
to when God and her
were born.=94
And the
wind would howl, and the Iowa river would shake the banks near
me and
I would watch the people walk by unable to see me -- seeing
through
them.
When
the winds would die and the smell of tornadoes left the air, I
would
begin to walk across the city to Dan and Mary=92s - the dog people =
-
shepherd
people - who brought lightness to the dungeons and dragons
games
.... games I never played, for I preferred solitaire, playing with
myself.
My best
friends were sunflowers and when they died I cried and searched
for new
sunflowers and one grew seven feet high at my mothers .... and I
went to
the law building and taught the classes ... and laughed and
howled
at the moon, as the students painted anarchy on the dorm windows
and the
counselors cried at the insanity which filled the air.
And the
priest declared that =93I=94 was Alpha and Omega and I accepted t=
he
part
and split the universe in my mind -- angry at the abyss for
stealing
the auburn ghost. I spoke with her once
that summer but she
could
not see or hear me. =20
She
read the lawbooks as I saw the black paint cover Danforth Chapel ...
And
then
astral
projection in my mind took me far beyond the galaxy and glancing
back at
the Milky Way I saw the gateways to a parallel universe --
hidden
doorways at the L-5 points/ gravity points between Earth and
Moon,
where they want to put the space station -- and suddenly I
understood
her abstinence, her fear of conceiving Captain James Kirk who
was to
be born in the town where we lived -- Riverside Iowa, birthplace
of the
Starfleet Captain -- Who spoke the prime directive of
non-interference
in alien culture while fucking every alien woman he
could
lure into the sack.
I
crashed somewhere near the river. The
reentry was devestating.
After a
while I took my place on the stone benches and turned the cards
and
sang songs to myself. Then she met me
there at the River Styx and I
signed
the paper and I was free. Free at
last. Free at last. Until
the
magician at the Dead Wood aksed if it was what I wanted and I said
it was
too late and he showed me his disappearing tricks and said maybe
not and
I gave him a book called Miracles and left the decision to the
Universe
and told him his magic could make the papers disappear from the
Courthouse
if the divorce was not intended by the Fates.
Then I
tripped down the street to see Batman but left before the Joker
died
and talked with the student in the lobby who was reading Zen and
the Art
of Motorcycle Maintenence.
And I
retired to the Heartland to the banks of the Missouri River and
collected
myself collected from people all around the country and played
Hanks
Williams=92 songs =93I=92m so lonesome I could Cry=94 on Dan=92s Re=
d,
White
and
Blue Buck Owens=92 guitar and I helped Mary with her Alzheimer=92s by
trading
minds with her and with her thoughts in my mind I was diagnosed.
So I
escaped to the camp by the River and rested for a year preparing
for my
journey from the pit. The climb out of
Hell would require all my
energy. So I came to the banks of the Mississippi
River - Highway 61
Revisited
- After my father had sacrificed me to old Doc Whitehead and
his
Haldol. =20
I
abandoned solitaire for spades and played often with three Rock Island
Ghosts
- one who=92d been to Woodstock and then to prison when his father
and
brother sacrificed him on Highway 61 for a little marijuana. And
then
the divorce destroyed his mind just as mine had - so I gave him my
wedding
band and he wore it as a pinky ring. I
still wear his stocking
cap to
sleep for protection from the brainstorms.
His
partner in spades was a homemaker not by choice - by fear. A lover
once
took some acid and then took a lighter and burned her vagina and
she
protected herself with several quarts of Colt 45 each day and she
never
left the house in the two years I knew her and once she took
twenty-five
minutes to decide which card to place because her mind was
so
distracted from the alcohol haze.
My
partner was a giant ghost who saw Jimi Hendrix alive in Davenport and
thought
Hitler was righteous and he explained the angel paintings and
deconstructed
words to find hidden meanings. The
hospital was the true
pit,
the clue was right there in the middle of the word -- hos-PIT-al --
so he
didn=92t take his medications very often.
And we
were playing spades and Fleetwood Mac was playing hypnotize and
then
David Gilmore started playing out of this world and I left my body
and
looked down and saw us playing cards and when I returned I was sick
for
hours and passed out on the couch I gave them. =20
The
next day I told a freind I almost died several times on that couch.=20
I felt
my heart stop and start again.
Janis
Joplin sang a funeral song while I read a clipping about AIDs not
knowing
that the auburn ghost was working on quilts in San Francisco and
the
brainstorm came and lasted four days .... no identity ... no sleep
... for
four days walking aimlessly searching for hope
...........................
And I
reached the white house long past midnight and the stairs were lit
by a
Goddess and as I climbed the stairs I heard Led Zepelin in my mind=20
and
each level reflected another stage of cosnciousness. when I reached
the
third level a huge American flag symbolized the New World Order ...=20
I saw a
stairway going up and realized that the flag and the New Order
were a
sham.
I went
to the next level=20
sat on
a lawn chair
threw a
lightbulb=20
into
the parking lot
my last
bright idea
shattered
on the pavement.
REM=92s
=93It=92s the End of the World as we know it=94 played in my head=
. =20
I took
the child=92s toy, the red chalice brought it to my lips and
quenched
my thirst. I heard William Burroughs
voice: =93A wise man once
said
that you can only call the Doctor once.=94
I smelled the unleaded o=
n
my
breath. My mind screamed out :
=93Doctor! Doctor!=94
I
lived.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 22:22:32 -0400
Reply-To: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: poesia and posies
MIME-Version:
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hello
Beat-list folk, quite a busy time of cyberyear, i spend more time
seeking
random bits of info before deleting, sad sad, well now i'm talkin'...
I
always liked Kerouac's Spontaneous suggestions, though spontaneaeaity
aint
limit ed to a particular set of circumstances -- i mean ya dont
haveta
by hopped up on caffee n benny hunched o'er a typewriter or pen n
pad or
blank wall or -- since spontaneaous writin is just Mind writin
cannot
there be Spontaneous Revisions -- i mean, there CAN be -- isnt a
revision
just another flash of insight in the brain, even if ya spend
hours
years mulling over a problem often the solution comes in split
seconds,
like writin a term paper fo' school, takes a lot of timewasting
and
considerably few actual productive timeslots for me, tho sometimes
the
reaction must simmer...
anyway,
I personally, in my prolific (mostly unRead though i assure you
genius!)
work of writing i generally stick with NO revisions, for several
or a
few reasones:
1) i am
lazy. proud slacker.
2) like
to save shit.
3)no
time, more stuff to compose.
etc,etc,etc.
i can
sometimes think of my poetry as carrying on a conversation record
of
thoughts for myself. like, in a conversation, you can't erase a
statement.
you can ammend it, move on, say new things, but a statement
(though
perhaps meaningless) is out there. So, in writing, i usually
leave
things as they were when i was actively jotting a pieceafter maybe
adding
the "s" 's i forgot or correcting it to the words i wanted to say
(that
were said in my mind) and simply scribbled through cursively
reckless,
whatever. I'll just compose another pome if i wanna say
somethin
new rather than try to eradicate an earlier one. Great!
adios,
A dios,
if any
one cares,
Eric
rhs4@crystal.palace.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 22:05:10 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: [Fwd: Re: The Role of the Poet]
MIME-Version:
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a multi-part message in MIME format.
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sent
this sometime last night. got the
OVERDRAFT notice having exceeded
my
number of post per day alotment. i had
been counting so carefully i
thought
certainly i had one left. but i was
wrong.
so ...
since i saved a bunch today i can waste one by resending these.
and if
i can kick this sleepiness that is overcoming - i might just have
to
shoot the rest of my wad for the day in the next few minutes. but
sleepiness
may win out.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
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Message-ID:
<33B07ECD.1241@midusa.net>
Date:
Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:13:33 -0500
From:
RACE --- <race@midusa.net>
X-Mailer:
Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version:
1.0
To:
Beat-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:
Re: The Role of the Poet
References:
<33AF17D9.AA6@discovland.net>
<l03020900afd52a9e495b@[198.5.212.77]>
<l03020902afd594cb57df@[198.5.212.108]>
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runner911
wrote:
>
> At
1:53 AM -0700 6/24/97, RACE --- wrote:
>
>
> actually, the answer would be an
EMPHATIC no. The kind of poet being
>
> described in that quotation is the poet as magician and most easily
>
> understood as a word alchemist. if
one accepts the power of symbols in
>
> shaping reality, the poet's ability to Perceive and then stir the
>
> symbolic soup is a Real form of contemporary alchemy. What you were
>
> referring to is probably a real creature but my hunch is that the
>
> alchemist can with some effort overcome the population of these middle
>
> aged gentlement in terms of pure magic.
>
>
yes, and my argument for the definition of a poet would necessitate that
>
this "magician" and "alchemist" spend time on the
SHITLIST. Oh, god
>
forbid, our poet should have a criminal record! should be despised by a
>
great many. From these latest
clarifications, sounds like you're
>
describing some teenage african-american, sent-up for 5-10 on crack related
>
charges. Is this what you meant??? :-)
>
>
>
>
> david rhaesa
>
> salina, Kansas
>
>
cheers, Douglas
>
>
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/
summer
>
save it, just keep it off my wave
is
> -- ("my wave," soundgarden) here
to be
perfectly honest i don't remember typing these words.
so i
guess they can mean whatever you want them to mean.
if i
typed them i can't believe that i wasn't joking. of course, as the
day
progressed i may have convinced myself as all too often happens that
humour
is deadly serious.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
living
in a state of perpetual dream-state
--------------7F7DBDC6F87--
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 23:35:37 -0400
Reply-To: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Kronos and Glass
Mime-Version:
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Charles,
If you enjoyed the Kronos Howl (what
about the Harry Partch piece
too? ...that's pretty beat.) you should listen to
Hydrogen Jukebox by
Philip
Glass which has some very apt readings by Allen. I've enjoyed it greatly.
By the way, along with my T-shirt order from Jeffrey, I've
ordered
"Last
of the Mocassins" - the signed version. Haven't gotten it yet...it'll
come
with the Breat list t-shirt.
Speaking of which....listen up
everyone...if you haven't yet gotten
your
order in, do so now...immediately...do not pass go, do not collect $200
- don't
wait...Jeffrey's depleted bank account awaits your order!
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky
and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 22:44:45 -0500
Reply-To: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: lena wants to join the list and
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well
the kid wants to join the list, i told her to send subscribe to
this
address i had and it just bounced back.
If someone wants to help
her her
e-mail address is
lena@sunflower.com.
i have
mixed emotions, know if she gets on i probably should watch my
spelling
because she will tut tut me. She has
shown such an interest in
reading
and writing this summer i am thrilled. Her computer sits besides
mine
and she and i discuss self censorship of material with her, well i
think
that she will be fine.p
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:49:38 -0700
Reply-To: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: Kronos and Glass
Comments:
To: Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
MIME-Version:
1.0
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Antoine
Maloney wrote:
> Speaking of which....listen up
everyone...if you haven't yet gotten
>
your order in, do so now...immediately...do not pass go, do not collect $200
> -
don't wait...Jeffrey's depleted bank account awaits your order!
What do
you need to do to order? I was cecking out Charley's page a few
days
ago and saw a picture of the Beat-L shirt asvertised to the public
for
19.95 or something like that. How much are they for us?
leon
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 01:27:04 +0000
Reply-To: "neudorf@discovland.net"
<neudorf@DISCOVLAND.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "neudorf@discovland.net"
<neudorf@DISCOVLAND.NET>
Subject: Perfection
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Mike
Skau wrote:
>
Tolstoy once said that a work of art is never finished--it is only abandoned.
Interesting
- but if an artist is experimenting with a particular form,
and
that form seems to have been perfected (i use 'seem', because
perfection
is not objective), is it not finished? To become the Buddha
you
must kill the Buddha. Perfect a style / project / work of art and
then
drop it, move on to another. Perhaps this is just a matter of
terminology.
Joseph
Neudorfer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 02:52:07 -0400
Reply-To: Sean Kelley <skelley@VOICENET.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sean Kelley
<skelley@VOICENET.COM>
Subject: Hard-to-find videos for sale!
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Beat
Documentaries/Fiction
**************************
"Burroughs" (1983, 87 min, Brookner) ...
$74.99
"Commissioner
of the Sewers" (1986, 60 min,
Maeck) ... $39.99
"Fried
Shoes Cooked Diamonds" (1978, 55 min, Allione) ... $39.99
"Gang
of Souls" (1988, 60 min,
Beatty) ... $59.99
"Heart
Beat" (1980, 109 min, Byrum) ...
$29.99
"Jack
Kerouac's Road" (1987, 55 min,
Chaisson) ... $59.99
"Kerouac" (1984, 100 min, Allen & Burroughs) ...
INQUIRE
"The
Life and Times of Allen Ginsberg"
(1993, 83 min, Aronson) ... $39.99
"Naked
Lunch" (1991, 115 min,
Cronenberg) ... $29.99
"Old
Habits Die Hard" (1990, 60 min,
compilation) ... $49.99
"Poetry
in Motion" (1985, 90 min,
Mann) ... $49.99
"Towers
Open Fire" (1962-72, 35 min,
Balch) ... $39.99
"What
Happened to Kerouac?" (1986, 96
min, Lerner & MacAdams) ... $79.99
If
there are Jim Jarmusch, Tom Waits, or other Beat-oriented video
titles
you are looking for, please email a request at Aardvark Video
at
http://www.voicenet.com/~skelley or simply respond to this message.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 02:38:17 -0400
Reply-To: "Dean M. Palmer"
<dean_palmer@JUNO.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Dean M. Palmer"
<dean_palmer@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Bukowski
Has
anyone read much Bukowski? I was peruding my local book vendor when I
noticed
"Pulp" and just basically thought it looked neat. I purchased,
read,
and laughed my ass off. That is one hell of a read. Is anyone else
familiar
with his work?
/\/\/\/\/\~Dean_Palmer@juno.com~/\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/\/\/\~Funny
English Joke; man and wife in living room, phone rings,
man
answers and says he wouldn't know, better call the coast guard, and
hangs
up, wife says, "Who was it, dear?" and man says, "I don't know,
some
damn fool who
wanted
to know if the coast was clear." har-har-har (Neal
Cassady)~/\/\/\/\/\
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 00:48:57 -0700
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: back from the ashes
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Hi all!
Glad to
be back.
Couldn't
stay away for long...
Adrien
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 23:43:42 -0700
Reply-To: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: References to T-shirt
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Here
are the URL's to save you some time if you don't have them handy
and would like to have a look.
BTW My
apologies to Charles Plymell. Shouldn't have called him Charley,
since I
haven't met him. However, there was no disrespect intended. The
shirt
is mentioned in his page http://www.buchenroth.com/cplymell.html
>
April Fool's Day 1997 S. Clay Wilson, Cherry Valley, NY During this
snow-storm'n, S.
>
Clay Wilson visit to the Plymells, April, 1997, spawn the idea of the now
famous S.
> Clay Wilson, BEAT-L, T-Shirt .... now available from Jeffrey H.
Weinberg owner of > Water Row Books. Jeffrey also sells Last of the
Moccasins.
Wilson's
drawing for the shirt is pictured at the Waterrow page:
http://www.waterrowbooks.com/shirtpage.html
leon
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 01:17:04 -0700
Reply-To: runner911 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner911
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: Death of a Poet
In-Reply-To: <33B2014F.788A@together.net>
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At
10:42 PM -0700 6/25/97, Diane Carter wrote:
>
does not necessarily mean messiah-like.
Perhaps it is the power to see
>
infinity and immortality in little acts of humanness.
perhaps. am still pissy towards the idea, though. :-)
<<Part
of me would still like to see James Dean strung out the window of
his car
crash. perhaps his body thrown clear
from the wreckage? a
chicklet,
or slim jim snagging his tongue like a cigarette. his fly open
and
vultures picking apart his penis.>>
and the
application of power, Diane, not just the "seeing"? The work
applied? what of that? sorry to grind your beautiful idea into the
grindstone. put it through all my ideological
wringers. perhaps under the
strain
of our 10 ton questions, between our cuddling remarks (quote
unquote),
perhaps our poetics shall meet??
"she'll
touch your perfect body with her mind" - Leonard Cohen (Suzanne)
What'd
you think of Maya's love-sad and death-happy poem? awesome....
> DC
tired
and strung out, insomniac Douglas
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ summer
save
it, just keep it off my wave
is
-- ("my wave," soundgarden) here
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 01:18:43 -0700
Reply-To: runner911 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner911 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: The Role of the Poet]
In-Reply-To: <33B1DC66.1770@midusa.net>
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David
writ:
>
living in a state of perpetual dream-state
did you
dream you were me? I wrote that.
xoxo,
Douglas
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:09:08 +0200
Reply-To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: messing 'round
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.BSD/.3.91.970625220315.524B-100000@crystal.palace.net >
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"Robert
H. Sapp" <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET> wrote:
>some
antics
>
>
>
>
Now here
> is
> nowhere
> is
>
a God
> is
> a
dog
> as
>
anywhere
> is
>any where
> is
> nowhere
>
>Words are
> not
>doors and
> i
>
am not
> a
>word but
> i
> am
also
> not
> a
door
> you
>guess
it's
> your
>turn still
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Eric
Sapp
>rhs4@crystal.palace.net
>
>
&
gave
Off sparks
On the
stOne
dO Or
s
"NO One
Here Get Out
Alive"--jm
30yrs
agO was nOt sO sad
are we
wOrd-machine
Or
blurred
sepia phOtos
Only gOd knOws what we are
anyOne
Offended by my wOrds
im'
guilt & deeply apOlogies
but in
all sincerity i lOve u
my
friends-- yrs RinaldO
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 08:03:59 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: dreams and chickens
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runner911
wrote:
>
>
David writ:
>
>
> living in a state of perpetual dream-state
>
>
did you dream you were me? I wrote
that.
>
>
xoxo, Douglas
there
was a quoted portion from me that i didn't recall. at least it
said
RACE wrote somewhere at the top. the
writing appeared that it
could
have been mine. i just was not
consciously writing anything on
that
day ... except for the bit about Barry ... the rest was merely deam
typing. so if you clipped yourself out of one of my
posts where i'd
left
part or whole of one of your posts so that it appeared that i had
written
what you had actually written then it would have made a bit more
sense
that i didn't recall the typing of it.
but i was still definitely
in a
dream-world. the last thing i really
consciously remembered doing
in
thewhole thing was saying well this thread with different quotes
about
what poet is could use the perspective of Colin Wilson. But i
wasn't
going to say that it was definitive by any means. just another
angle. then the discussion between us took off and
the rest of the
quotations
were lost in this alchemical dialogue that led to the
wonderful
notion of Kentucky Fried Chicken which unfortunately left me
quite
hungry.
I think
it will be interesting and i may go back to it today or tomorrow
to go
back to the original thread with the quotations and see how they
weave
together into something that is -- less divisive -- perhaps.
sincerely,
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
p.s.
around these parts the best chicken is called "Brookville Chicken".
After
that comes "Jim's". I imagine
that Kentucky Fried is third on the
list.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:08:19 -0400
Reply-To: Marioka7@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: does anyone here speak french?
translation
by greg e.:
<<
When the moon is full
and my heart longing for you
I think of you carressing me
with more love(tenderness)
than your cat.
But the moon is rarely full
and your cat spies me with his yellow eyes,
full
of hate.
It is clear to whom you belong.
>>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:58:43 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Role of the Poet
<<craps>>
Comments:
To: "Michael L. Buchenroth" <mike@infinet.com>
In-Reply-To: <33B1E917.FFF@buchenroth.com>
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On Wed,
25 Jun 1997, Michael L. Buchenroth wrote:
>
Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:
>
>
> I heard on the news that one of our main exports to China is chicken >
feet
> which they eat as a delicacy.
>
>
Here in Columbus, Ohio, a local vending machine company, Sanese, serves
>
Chicken Beak BBQ Sandwiches in vending machines for $1.50. They're not
>
bad as long as they grind 'er up real good. And a couple buddies, on a
>
couple occasions swore they'd bit into a piece a hoof in their BBQ Pork
>
Sandwiches.
Also in
Columbus is a large Oriental food supply store (on N. High Street)
which
sells a number of strange animal parts and whatnot. At a decent price,
too.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:31:03 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: SNET: Re: ADV Weekly Transcripts
(fwd)
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Saw
this on another list. Wasn't aware of this one...
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date:
Wed, 25 Jun 1997 23:49:53 -0400
From:
Psyberdude <rturmel@clark.net>
Reply-To:
snetnews@world.std.com
To:
snetnews@world.std.com
Subject:
RE: SNET: Re: ADV Weekly Transcripts
[snipped]
Don't
forget that this wonderfully warm person named Ambrose Pierce
said:
>>The
world would be a lot cleaner place if
>>all
of his kind were swept up and buried in a deep hole somewhere.
>>Every
newspaper writer who praised Ginsberg's trash,
>>every
newspaper editor who allowed the praise to be published in his
>>paper,
every university librarian who eagerly recommended Ginsberg's
>>filth
as "poetry," every literary
reviewer who treated Ginsberg
>>seriously
every one of them should be rounded up and shot.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 12:05:10 -0400
Reply-To: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: Re: Bukowski
Comments:
To: "Dean M. Palmer" <dean_palmer@JUNO.COM>
In-Reply-To:
<19970626.023818.16198.0.dean_palmer@juno.com>
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havent
read very much prose by him, but i love his poetry. he has a sort
of
drunken clarity like being poked in the arm hard with a dull spoon.
~days
in the library and nights in bars~
adios,
Eric
rhs4@crystal.palace.net
"you
tell me why i'm on fire like old dry garbage" buk (from memory)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 12:18:54 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Bukowski
Comments:
To: "Robert H. Sapp" <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.BSD/.3.91.970626115948.20197B-100000@crystal.palace.net>
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On Thu,
26 Jun 1997, Robert H. Sapp wrote:
>
havent read very much prose by him, but i love his poetry. he has a sort
> of
drunken clarity like being poked in the arm hard with a dull spoon.
His
prose is excellent (imho better than his poetry but maybe that's just
me, i
like prose more in general anyway), very clean and tight -- like HST,
he's
one of the better Beat-related writers when it comes to understanding
punctuation
and writing clean, tight prose.
Michael
Stutz
stutz@dsl.org
http://dsl.org/m/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:51:12 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: spontaneity and writing
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Mike
writ:
>
><<
Tolstoy (not a Beat, but a great writer nonetheless) once said that a work
>of
art is never finished--it is only abandoned.
Well, I
did not mean to go on at quite such length. Apologies.>>
Never
read any of Tolstoy's work because of the length. yours was
bearable. Interesting to hear these ideas. In a round a bout way,
spontaneity
connects over to the thread on "accidents" and how these are
the
same as "planned" events. And
coming late to this discussion, let
me only
say that drugs (of all kinds) cause the mind to litter itself
with
accidents.
ASIDE::You
folx ever watch the "actor's studio" on Bravo TV? Every
interview
end with a question by Bernard Pevo (sp?) that includes the
question:
"what is your favorite drug? It
can be a feeling, a chemical,
whatnot." Some people might answer love, coffee, the
smell of donuts in
the
morning.
Well,
my point being that the "best kind" of spontaneity sucks out all
the
previous accidents and spills them together in a new form. Takes up
all the
abandoned pieces of earlier works, the shavings, the setasides,
and
makes them work together. Of course, if
you've already wiped your
slate
clean, you have no ideas, or are simply unable to hoover your mind
open -
then well, that's a different story.
perhaps
spontaneity is just a remembering of possibilities (abandoned
accidents,
heavenly interventions, intiution, self-destruction...).
>
>>
Cordially,
>>
Mike Skau
cheers,
Douglas <<looking forward to
another 8 hours of spont..zzzzz
work)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:49:59 -0400
Reply-To: MATT HANNAN
<MATT.HANNAN@OTC.USOC.CCHUB.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MATT HANNAN
<MATT.HANNAN@OTC.USOC.CCHUB.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: SNET: Re: ADV Weekly Transcripts
(fwd)
Comments:
To: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
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Let me
guess--a critic. To paraphrase the
Bard:
'First
thing we do let's take all the critic's typewriters away'
(I
don't advocate killing)
>>Don't
forget that this wonderfully warm person named Ambrose Pierce
>>said:
blah, blah blah
>>every
literary reviewer who treated Ginsberg seriously every one of
>>them
should be rounded up and shot.
blah, blah, blah
I'm trying desperately to decide if
critics are building bad Karma or
paying it off.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:05:34 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: poesia and posies
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Robert
gives reasons for not revising:
>>
1) i am lazy. proud slacker.
>>
2) like to save shit.
>>
3)no time, more stuff to compose.
>>
>>
etc,etc,etc.
>
perhaps
I watch too much TV, but heard this movie studio exec commenting
on why
certain films are readily accepted for distribution and why
others
are not. She went on record saying,
"if only they included one
more
car crash, one more scene with scantily clad women, more guns,
another....
then, they could recoup their investments, get money to make
the
next film." She seemed incredulous
that more people didn't do that.
Compromise.
I
understand both sides. Have always
resisted outside forces telling me
to
"polish" my work. fuck em, I
said, if they can't take a joke. And I
just
continued with #3, composing, composing.
Running down my own
track. train of thought.
So what
happens with all the stuff you save?
Ever go back and look at
it? I've been scouring my archives recently,
looking for inspiration,
ways to
refurbish old ideas. You might consider
doing the same. It's
kinda
fun actually. "I thought
that? I did that? man, that was
stupid....
oh great, I'd thought I'd lost those..... I can use these....
trash,
trash, trash." As someone else was
saying, the cleared space is
nice
too. Room for more shit! ;-)
just
wait till you *have* to move. Your #1
reason will evaporate and
you'll
be surprised at the results. And come
one, you revise, I know
you
do. Admit it!
><<slackers
forever>>, Douglas
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:43:17 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Dear Chickenheads:
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Dear
Chickenheads, slackers, and fellow beat travellers:
Have
received a message from god, <<hail almighty>>, to cease and desist
my non
beat postings. Ah, my line was at its
end, this I knew, but to
receive
a message from on high.... ah, this is
a blessing, indeed. I
can
return to my gang now and feel satisfied that my work here is
complete. <<Rack one for me boys, I'm comin'
home!>> :-)
Sorry
to have plagued you all. Will be sparse
and to the point in the
future.
beat
on, brother deep, Douglas
"the
map is not the territory"
babu@electriciti.com
(attribution unknown) www.electriciti.com/babu/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 12:24:52 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: The Role of the Poet (and education
thereof)
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J.
Stauffer wrote:
><<In
our world a poet is someone who can get at least a few other people
>to
agree that what he or she does is poetry.>>
Yes,
but can a poet exist soley? alone
without recognition? Before
they
got published and commercially sanitized by Time Magazine, were the
beats
"poets"? Or were they just a
bunch of educated whacks? Before
every
word became sacred, before the eyes of the world became them, I
wonder
what the early years were like. Any
reading recommendations??
Something
akin to Norman Mailer's "portait of picasso as a young man"
would be
great.
>>
J Stauffer
brother
deep, Douglas
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 21:26:24 +0200
Reply-To: Ksenija Simic
<ksenija@GALOIS.MI.SANU.AC.YU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ksenija Simic
<ksenija@GALOIS.MI.SANU.AC.YU>
Subject: Alchemist
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I don't
know if any of you have read the book Alchemist by Paolo Koellio (I
think
that the spelling is similar to that). It is deffinitely worth it. It
may
answer some of everybody's dillemmas.
Ksenija
PS. You
may have noticed by the name that I am not of American origin; as a
matter
of fact, I live far, far away, in Yugoslavi (remember that country:
war,
protests...). Well, maybe you will like to know that most of us have
grown
up on Kerouac and the beatsm and that it doesn't matter where you
live,
but HOW.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 15:29:59 -0400
Reply-To: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: the dance of the seven beggars
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.BSD/.3.91.970625220315.524B-100000@crystal.palace.net>
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it was
meant to be centered on page. if you are interested, convert. loses
a lot
with left justified. mc
THE
DANCE OF THE SEVEN BEGGARS
1
i come
to your office
weekly
50
minutes
out of
all the minutes
in the
week
it
seems hardly
barely
not
enough
time
i
panic,
as i
spill out overflowing
in the
minutes
outside
the
regulation
50
obvious
it's my
fault
in the
office your voice is warm
warm
and helpful
you
listen so well
and
when i am able to look in your eyes
they
are as warm
as your
voice
but i
am just a beggar here
one of
many
seven
or so
more or
less:
no
differrence
i
don't
pay
you say
that's
ok
but
however i see it
i am a
beggar
in the
wall street
balance
sheet
of
psychotherapy
i
know
i have
no right
to ask
for
more
already
beggar-woman
the
woman in the shoe
too
many children to know
just
what to
do
beggar
child woman
hears
"be
grateful for what you get,
shut up
about the rest!"
shrieksmother
in my head
she's
still there
she's
angry
that
secrets are being told
and
that we all NEED so much
it
frightens me
i live
with my mother
all the other
minutes
in the week
i'm too
polite
to kick her out
i've
gotten better
at
calling
and
listening to your voice
without
asking
for rescue
i
hardly call at all
anymore
but,
last week i called
and no
warmth in yr voice
an
"oh well"
said in
an "oh well" sort of voice
in fact
you did
say
"oh
well" that day
i
needed a plumber and i called the electrician again.
you
were right
dead
right
one
more black mark
i can't
get it right
ah.....go
fuck yourself
i hear
you say,
reasonably,
"you
need a lawyer not me "
you
gave advice
i took
the advice
your
dog in background
obvious
you
called from your home
i
called
during office hours
i
i wanted
only a few moments of
office
time
the
humiliation
of
hearing your dog bark
in your
house
my face
still burns in shame
two
things at once:
sound
advice
cold
voice
obvious
in your voice,
distant
many
quiet/no speak moments
obvious
i had
intruded
obvious
i had
intruded
obvious
that
all the wes in me
have to
be more invisible
in
order
to be
seen
this
dance of the seven veils
the
seven beggars
the
seven children
the
seven hellbentforleatherchicks
the
seven
beggar child-women
this
dance must be danced
in your
office
only
we yet don't know the steps outside
the
regulation
50
we
often stumble
beat is
off
paradox:
we just
called
to hear
the
beat of
your heart
obvious
that
the week holds 50 minutes
and
should hold no more
don't
want to do the ' so unworthy'
dance
no
more.
mc
6/26/97
2
THIS IS
NOT A GUILT TRIP(works well with this
and this is not love song
sex ps)
i
come to
your office
weekly
50
minutes
out of
all the minutes
remaining
in the week
it
seems
hardly
barely
not
enough
i
panic, overflowing,
screaming,
throw us a rope!
or,
quick
switchz:
>>>>>>>>>>ah
go fuck yrself
i
gotta
get down from this cross
i've
been riding
all
these long days
but, as
long as i'm on it,
sit up
and hear the truth!
i can't
pay you
and in
the economics of therapy
hierarchies
thrive
money
talks, or lets others talk for hours and years
no
silver crosses your palm
hierarchies
are maintained:
we are
on c-rations:
the 50 minute hour
"be
grateful for what you've got!
rants
the mother in my head
yep
she's still up there
rent
free.
talk of
family economies!
when we
spoke last week
on the
phone
your
warm voice disappeared!
and a
laconic attitude seemed to take its place
an 'oh
well'
said in
an 'oh well' sort of voice
your
sound advice
cold
voice
dog in the background
(obvious
lots of
quiet/no speak moments
( i had
intruded)
obvious
that
the week holds 50 minutes
for me.
no
difference.
mc 6/26/97
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:27:24 -0400
Reply-To: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: Re: Dear Chickenheads:
Comments:
To: "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>
In-Reply-To:
<c=US%a=_%p=OEES%l=SD-MAIL-970626184317Z-5152@sd-mail.sd.oees.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
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speaking
of the almighty --
i just heard
the
ironing board drying
(crying)
"The
Holy Spirit specializes in setting people free from crack." -- a
hispanic
evangelist on a television church program on higher cable
What is
the Warld
coming
too
?
from,
Eric
rhs4@crystal.palace.net
On Thu,
26 Jun 1997, Penn, Douglas, K wrote:
>
Dear Chickenheads, slackers, and fellow beat travellers:
>
>
Have received a message from god, <<hail almighty>>, to cease and
desist
> my
non beat postings. Ah, my line was at
its end, this I knew, but to
>
receive a message from on high.... ah,
this is a blessing, indeed. I
>
can return to my gang now and feel satisfied that my work here is
>
complete. <<Rack one for me boys,
I'm comin' home!>> :-)
>
>
Sorry to have plagued you all. Will be
sparse and to the point in the
>
future.
>
>
beat on, brother deep, Douglas
>
>
>
"the map is not the territory" babu@electriciti.com
> (attribution unknown) www.electriciti.com/babu/
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:48:28 -0400
Reply-To: Matthew W Barton
<mwb201@IS5.NYU.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matthew W Barton
<mwb201@IS5.NYU.EDU>
Subject: i say, i say chickenhawk
Comments:
To: "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>
In-Reply-To:
<c=US%a=_%p=OEES%l=SD-MAIL-970626184317Z-5152@sd-mail.sd.oees.com>
MIME-version:
1.0
Content-type:
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statement
of intent: i intend to post all
information i feel relative to
this
list-serve. i belong to other lists
which discuss topics which
do not
directly touch upon beat literature.
content to
discuss
the act of signing, binary opposites, and logocentrism elsewhere i
shall
continue to post messages "beat".
each member opts to recieve this
mail, i
have been sorry to see some leave the list, rather than recieve
the
mail. i've deleted your messages and
railed against you publicly and
privately. i will continue to delete those i find
bothersome and not
respond
to those that i would rather dissagree with privately. i shall
not
stop having opinions or intrests which conflicts with many of you, as
you
i. please ignore me if i bother you, as
i you (sometimes).
bill
will censor can censor me if he pleases.
were that i was the passive
poet.
the process of information
transferance in a post modern culture
requires
canon makers. whom have you read? why?
what do we collect in
the
libraries. what shall we teach and create? i did not come to this
list
for idols, personally. i have come to
learn and share perceptions of
the
word. they will conflict with others, i
will shake my fist, i will
argue,
i will see, i may possibly apologize.
i just
wanted to let everyone know how i will contine to post. if i leave
the
list, i have been kicked off. you may
contact me privately if it ever
happens. should i ever offend you, please don't
leave, fight back -- its
more
beat. we read tough books, some have
lead tough lives. how could
anyone
possibly fucking expect anyone else on the list to mind the q's.
this is
not addressed to douglas or anyone else.
i respect almost all
of you
and i cannot thank you all enough for the steel taste of your work.
mwbarton.
On Thu,
26 Jun 1997, Penn, Douglas, K wrote:
>
Dear Chickenheads, slackers, and fellow beat travellers:
>
>
Have received a message from god, <<hail almighty>>, to cease and
desist
> my
non beat postings. Ah, my line was at
its end, this I knew, but to
>
receive a message from on high.... ah,
this is a blessing, indeed. I
>
can return to my gang now and feel satisfied that my work here is
>
complete. <<Rack one for me boys,
I'm comin' home!>> :-)
>
>
Sorry to have plagued you all. Will be
sparse and to the point in the
>
future.
>
>
beat on, brother deep, Douglas
>
>
>
"the map is not the territory" babu@electriciti.com
> (attribution unknown) www.electriciti.com/babu/
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:55:00 -0400
Reply-To: Matthew W Barton
<mwb201@IS5.NYU.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matthew W Barton <mwb201@IS5.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Alchemist
Comments:
To: Ksenija Simic <ksenija@GALOIS.MI.SANU.AC.YU>
In-Reply-To:
<199706261926.VAA01717@galois.mi.sanu.ac.yu>
MIME-version:
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could
you tell me something about koellio?
don't mind the hometown
launguage
games. it seems through this general
thread regarding the
creative
process people have been lining up into various theory camps.
watch
out, the romantics have claimed the sun for the poet, the
deconstuctions
haven't spoken, the artists wave their products, and the
list-serve
boils.
mwbarton.
On Thu,
26 Jun 1997, Ksenija Simic wrote:
> I
don't know if any of you have read the book Alchemist by Paolo Koellio (I
>
think that the spelling is similar to that). It is deffinitely worth it. It
>
may answer some of everybody's dillemmas.
>
>
Ksenija
>
>
PS. You may have noticed by the name that I am not of American origin; as a
>
matter of fact, I live far, far away, in Yugoslavi (remember that country:
>
war, protests...). Well, maybe you will like to know that most of us have
>
grown up on Kerouac and the beatsm and that it doesn't matter where you
>
live, but HOW.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 14:47:50 -0700
Reply-To: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Bukowski
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.LNX.3.94.970626121724.10470U-100000@seka.nacs.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
12:18 PM 6/26/97 -0400, you wrote:
>On
Thu, 26 Jun 1997, Robert H. Sapp wrote:
>
>>
havent read very much prose by him, but i love his poetry. he has a sort
>>
of drunken clarity like being poked in the arm hard with a dull spoon.
>
>His
prose is excellent (imho better than his poetry but maybe that's just
>me,
i like prose more in general anyway), very clean and tight -- like HST,
>he's
one of the better Beat-related writers when it comes to understanding
>punctuation
and writing clean, tight prose.
Actually,
buk had a disdain dislike for the beats, and did not associate
himself
with them. he was partial to a few, but all of the beats.
ttfn.
lisa
--
Lisa M. Rabey Computer Consultant UIN: 1231211
************************************************************
words...1000's of words.. wrapped
together like wire
how easy it would be to
hate you
and yet that is all i can
show you.
Nothing lasts forever.
-me
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:40:19 -0500
Reply-To: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Skau <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: jacking off
Content-Type:
text
Hi,
The
June 9, 1997 issue of _Time_ had a cover feature on generation X.
One
article, "Peace is an Xcellent Adventure," by Joshua Cooper Ramo,
begins
in this fashion:
It's
hard to judge a generation by its statistics. Five years ago, my
generation
was a group of overstuffed slackers; today we're Gordon Gekkos.
An
unlikely transformation. But there's at least one statistic that
resonates:
more of us are taking a full five years to get through college.
Most of
the country's parents look at this as a sort of slacker ritual--
the
obligatory year of mosh pitting, coffee drinking and Kerouac reading
before
graduation. (p. 69)
Cordially,
Mike
Skau
6/26/97
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:05:34 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Power of a Poet (was Death of a Poet)
MIME-Version:
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> At
10:42 PM -0700 6/25/97, Diane Carter wrote:
>
>
> Godlike does not necessarily mean messiah-like. Perhaps it is the
>power
to see
>
> infinity and immortality in little acts of humanness.
>
>
runner911 wrote:
>
and the application of power, Diane, not just the "seeing"? The work
>
applied? what of that? sorry to grind your beautiful idea into the
>
grindstone. put it through all my
ideological wringers. perhaps under the
>
strain of our 10 ton questions, between our cuddling remarks (quote
>
unquote), perhaps our poetics shall meet??
>
Perhaps. Have always loved that
particular Leonard Cohen line. But
first I
want to discuss this power idea a little more.
When you say the
"work
applied," are you referring to the power of the poem on the reader
that
causes him to feel or act, or of the power of the poet in creating
the
poem? Both are essentially addressing
the power of a thought or
idea to
transform experience or transmit awareness.
Take this short poem
from
Ginsberg:
Who
>From
Great Consciousness vision Harlem 1948 buildings standing in
Eternity
I
realized entire Universe was manifestation of One Mind--
My
teacher was William Blake--my life work Poesy,
transmitting
that spontaneous awareness to Mankind.
or, are
we discussing power as in this passage from Transcription of
Organ
Music,
I want
people to bow when they see me and say he is gifted with poetry,
he has
seen the presence of the Creator.
And the
Creator gave me a shot of his presence to gratify my wish,
so as
not to cheat me of my yearning for him.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:10:55 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: Power of a Poet (was Death of a Poet)
MIME-Version:
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Diane
writ:
><<Perhaps. Have always loved that particular Leonard
Cohen line. But
>first
I want to discuss this power idea a little more. When you say the
>"work
applied," are you referring to [[1]] the power of the poem on the
>reader
>that
causes him to feel or act, or of [[2]] the power of the poet in creating
>the
poem? Both are essentially addressing
the power of a thought or
idea to
transform experience or transmit awareness.>>
Hm. <<thinking>> I guess I'm concerned with [[1]] the power
of the
>poet
via poetry upon the reader and the resulting actions.
><< Take this short poem
>from
Ginsberg:>> -- Good! an actual example to wring ourselves over!!
>
>>
Who
>>
From Great Consciousness vision Harlem 1948 buildings standing in
>>
Eternity
>>
I realized entire Universe was manifestation of One Mind--
>>
My teacher was William Blake--my life work Poesy,
>>
transmitting that spontaneous awareness to Mankind.
one
mind --> Great Consciousness ---> Harlem 1948 buildings --->
Eternity ---> realization of manifestation
----> ah, attribution (of
Blake) ----> recognition (of life's work, Poesy)
-----> purpose
(transmitting
spont awareness) ----> reception (by us, reading the poem)
Is this
his train of thought? seeing the
building and realizing it's
potential
context, he attributes a social consciousness to his
reminiscences
of Blake and his life's work of poetry.
Sees himself as
the
receptor, as the channel to transmit the past into the present.
He's a
high priest, then? speaking for god to
all mankind?
Well,
my shackles go up when ever I see such generalizations (Universe,
Mankind,
Eternity). <<hm,
thinking> But what is he looking
at? He's
looking
at a 1948 building in Harlem. Don't
know my history very well,
but can
we assume it wasn't a pretty site? Can
we also assume this was
a
Ghetto of some kind? That he is saying
such "social problems" have
continued
throughout the centuries? Well, why not
just come out and say
so?! Instead he makes himself a savior of sorts,
sent out to save and
redeem
[perhaps?]. Our 1980s/1990s critical
thought classes ask us to
recognize
our audience, to pick apart our motives.
I don't want to say
he was
assuming the "white man's burden" because I don't know if this is
applicable
or not.
But
assuming he was declaring a burden to be fulfilled, let's now ask
what
POWER he levied towards this issue. How
was it received? What was
the
"conversation" between him and this "great
consciousness"? That's
what I
want to know. Or is it enough to cite
the train of thought and
the
parameters for discourse? [probably]
If one
form of artistic power must be "acceptable" and another one not,
then
yes, I would prefer god to speak and have us all hash out the
details
amongst ourselves. Let us dissent,
argue, behave in
chickenheaded
ways. This form of power has the power
to unite, to
embody,
and sustain - rather than condescend, betray, and manipulate.
[at
least I think that's what I mean... :-)]
><<or,
are we discussing power as in this passage from Transcription of
>Organ
Music,
>
>I
want people to bow when they see me and say he is gifted with poetry,
>he
has seen the presence of the Creator.
>And
the Creator gave me a shot of his presence to gratify my wish,
>so
as not to cheat me of my yearning for him.>>
Well,
it's a strange thing to be seen with as an image that coincides
with a
yearning. It's a "complete"
feeling. chest pumped out, eyes
level,
and perhaps even a few moments of satisfaction. This I have no
problem
with. And if I think multi-culturally
and use "bow when they
see
me" as a sign of respect, then ok.
BUT any other coercion, any
other
arrogant remarks will get extreme vibes from me. So yes, this
second
example is what I'm concerned about when I hear god associated
with
poetry and the act of creation. And all
Ginsberg is asking for is
recognition
[not fame, fortune, record company deals, etc]. This I can
live
with. Would you characterize him as a
"humble" man? And for what
I know,
I admire his support for other writers, poets, etc. That is
power
at its best. Yes?
PEOPLE
HAVE THE POWER or POWER TO THE PEOPLE
>>
DC
thanx
for tracking down and typing these examples!!!
cheers, Douglas
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:03:55 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: first thought and revision
"Things
rank and gross in nature possess it merely." Shakespeare
"There's
a weed growing in the garden." Ferp an old rounder friend of Betty
and
Frank's to signify there might be heat around.
"Say
Heav'nly Muse, shall not thy sacred vein/Afford a Present to the Infant
God?"
Milton
Charles
Plymell