=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 25 Jun 1997 19:41:57 -0700

Reply-To:     mike@infinet.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael L. Buchenroth" <mike@INFINET.COM>

Organization: Buchenroth Publishing Company

Subject:      Re: forlorn rags of growing old

Comments: To: Sinverg|enza <ljilk@GUINAN.MPS.ORG>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

Sinverg=FCenza wrote:

=20

> yeah. the only reason we do anything is because we know we're going to =

die.

 

 

I agree, we we live and we die. And when our switch gets clicked, it

just gets clicked! What the hellare we supposed to do about it? Why try

ta fight fate. The light a lamp makes can't keep the lamp's switch

unclicked no more than street-light light can control dawn or dawn

control dusk. Click switching cycles just exist. Stars go supernova and

lightening bugs mind meld with windshields.=20

 

This kid about 3 weeks ago run head on into this electric pole. He was a

bit drunk so he survived the crash with just a few scratches. But fate

had predetermined to click his switch with that accident and when the

pole didn't click it, the live wire he stepped on did! A 50,000-volt

click. Or it was more like BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ......KKKKK zzzzzKKkkk=20

you know some sound like that and then some burning flesh smells and so

on. He was meant to die there one way or the other. Little exists one

could do to change it.

 

And then last July 4th in Reynoldsburg, Ohio this guy's switch was

predetermined off. This fireworks steel shell casing exploded like a

big-ass bomb rather than towards the sky. A nice size piece of this

steel shrapnel chunk of steel sharp and jagged from the blast commenced

retrorocketing parallel with the ground generally out towards all the

fireworks patrons of that nice Reynoldsburg community celebrating the

good ole USA's independence and fasten your seatbelt, drive 65 and don't

smoke dope justice for all concepts. It was like Russian Roulette with

all the fans as players. Whose gonna die today folks, let's see.... Well

this bullet-like chunk of iron at God Speed clinked off a steel swingset

there in that park ricocheting it off at an angle to its original

trajectory, tantalizing these roulette players, all in less than a split

second so fast no one could really see it no more than one can see a

bullet, it was there in the air looking for a life switch to click. This

guy had been laying on his back on a blanket with his daughter perched

upon his stomach both looking up at the sky oohing and awwwwing at the

red, white and blue explosions high above. He put his daughter aside,

sat up, and Ka-fuck'n-whack, his switch clicked!

 

The big-ass piece of sharp-ass, jagged-ass steel shrapnel buried itself

deep into his chest cavity. He died on the spot. I suppose a moment or

two elapsed between the initial contact and the time his switched

clicked off, but who would have noticed. It all happened so fast. That

shrapnel had that guy's name on it. It was a fate guided missile on a

mission to click that guy's switch. And it clicked it! Off! Think of the

odds and all the chaos theory that unfolded those events? It binged off

a playground swingset, barely missed some folks, the guy just sat up,

etc. If it would have went straight someone else would have got it. It

coulda peeled his daughter's head off and continued on to brutalize

other roulette participants--a serial kill'n chunk a iron! Fate clicked

that specific guy's switch and what could anyone do about that?

 

Nothing!

 

I have many other stories to support my click theory. I get them from

the newspaper all the time. Like this guy sit'n in his reclining chair

in his living room watching TV and reading the newspaper when a

meteorite burns through the roof, the rafters, the upstairs bedroom

floor, the living room ceiling, and welds itself to this guy's skull. A

damn meteorite from outer space! God Damn, what the hell can anyone

possibly do about that?

 

Nothing!

 

If a meteorite from space has your name on it, hell bent to click your

switch, it'll click it. It'll click it wherever you might be. It's all

not that much different than the choice we had as to when we were gonna

get born, or who we were gonna be, or even what we was gonna be. Fate

determines those things.

 

Fate.

 

Just like fate determined who we were to be born as, what our minds

would be like, etc. Fate probably even enrolled us inta school. That's

why I don't understand so easily why so many folks have all this

resentment inside, and sadness, and pain, and so on. What the hell

control did they have over anything that happened to them as a child?

What? How could they have changed anything? Why can't we as human beings

just look into ourselves, see who we are this damn time, and live on

with it as fate desires? Shit. We get a finite number of summertimes to

enjoy, bowls of homemade ice cream to swallow, fish to catch, mornings

to get up, prior to that one predeterminately privatized meteorite in

orbit up there in outer space loosing altitude and drag'n ass due to the

friction with the atmosphere and dip'n on in, blazing-ass burn'n through

the night sky--fall'n star--to click your switch! Off. And that's if

we're lucky to go out in such a CNN-

newsworthy blaze of glory. Most folks just get the hand clapper--clap

clap--and its clicked; a stroke sleeping, or a cancer dying, or old age

ending.

 

Ever remember throwing a pillow or something and it accidentally clicks

off the light switch? Well if some bug or amebocite or some life form

was in that room that needed light to sustain life, lived only while

light fed it, lived life cycles according to when and when not light fed

it, etc. it would die due to that damn accidental pillow click! Or if

someone slams inta a light pole a few blocks away and the lights go out

in a few city blocks, think of all those amebocites dying due to that

accidental power outage. And shit, that New York State blackout wiped

out amebocite civilizations! --a

Bubonic Plague-like epidemic. Fate works big and small.

 

Think of those poor innocently swimming fish humans catch, and then fry?

Would 'bout those guys? And the worm you feed that fated fish? Do you

think that worm likes to swim? If worms like water so much, why aren't

they in it? They stay in the dirt cuz they like the dirt. They don't

particularly enjoy get'n their guts hooked, a carpet knife-like, street

fight'n, gut wrench'n, jab with a barbed hook, and then wiggl'n ass'd,=20

tossed overboard 10 foot deep fish food so as to snare a baby blue gill,

just barely outta minnowhood! That's a handsome catch there, a 1-inch

fish! If we catch a couple more like that one, we can make us a fish

stick! --support a cliche.

 

Fate determines everything. And everything just exists. That is Mike's

Theory of Everything: The Fish stick TOE....stub'd on a rock, bit by an

ant, and fungus covered need'n some kind of pharmaceutically corporate

fungicide to clear it up! I knew this guy who dipped his feet into sheep

dip to kill his athlete's foot. Indeed, it burned that pesky-ass,

scratch-resistant fungus off along with several epidermal layers

including his hide! Burn't his feet blood red. Plus he got plenty of

dope there in the hospital while recovering from this third degree

encounter with fate... Some folks argue that this guy, Darrell, burn't

his feet on his own accord--that fate had nothing' to do with it. They

say, of course, the undiluted sheep dip did it, but Darrell put his feet

in it. And I counter example by asking how did Darrell come by that

chemical cocktail and then the high-octane, fast act'n Tatactin desire

to deep fry his damn feet? Did Darrell act alone? Sheep dip needs

diluted perhaps 100 gallons of water per one gallon of dip! What on

earth could have prompted Darrell to submerge his feet into undiluted

dip. Christ, when dipped diluted, sheep act nuts and Darrell has

witnessed the terror in their eyes numerous times--enough to know,

anyway, dipped ticks drop dead right off dipped sheep! Dip clicks ticks'

switches like gasolene ignites. Darrell knew dip demographics all too

well. Fate dipped Darrell's feet into that undiluted dip!=20

 

In the hospital, doped and pained, Darrell asked to no one in

particular, perhaps to himself, "what in the hell made me do it?"

 

Fate did it, Darrell, fate did it...

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:08:02 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Drugs & Spontaneity

 

In a message dated 97-06-25 04:34:02 EDT, you write:

 

<< I'm much

 more concerned with the product as opposed to the act of creating. >>

 

I just finished listening to a CD Allen gave me last November Kronos Quartet

* HOWL, U.S.A.  Hmmmm..... Should I now hear Anne Sexton?

C. Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:20:33 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: the last time i committed suicide.

 

In a message dated 97-06-25 04:35:43 EDT, you write:

 

<< (The one that starts off "To have seen a specter isn't

  everything..)  >>

 

When Allen and I "talked poetry" c 1963,  It was obivious he was a good

learner, which, I suppose one has to be, to be a good teacher. He kept asking

me the MEANING of the lines of Blake I had quoted. "Each man is in his

Specter's power/until the arrival of that hour/when his humanity awakes/and

castes that Specter in the lake."

(might not be exact...quoting from memory.) He was very persistent, like I

knew something about it. It was a big "thread" for a while. Neal often picked

up on  discussions and jumped the words to his own battery. I wondered if he

had discussed the same poem with Allen previously.

Charles Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:26:21 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: dear abby...MARRIAGE! (HELP!)

 

Some one suggested adding more chlorine to the gene pool.

C. Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:29:32 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: The Role of the Poet

 

In a message dated 97-06-25 05:12:19 EDT, you write:

 

<< I don't know, but I bet Blake and Ginsberg did.  Why can't divinity be

 found/invoked? in the craftmanship of creating? >>

 

I find Blake's madness sometimes boring. I love his shorter poems and liked

the story that he ran naked in his garden. I think Allen's "statement" of

nakedness was just the thing for the 50's culture vulture and eggheads.

Charles Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 25 Jun 1997 19:35:50 -0500

Reply-To:     Michael Skau <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Skau <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>

Subject:      more ketchup

Content-Type: text

 

Hi again!

I still haven't completely caught up (about 100 messages behind now),

but I wanted to take a moment to address some responses to my previous

mailing.

Arthur: the _Junky_ quote strikes me as an allusion to Eliot's measured-

out life, but with a crucial difference: the junkie measures out his life by

putting it continually in a state of emergency. Prufrock's life is completely

bland, vanilla; he needs the coffee just to stay awake in his world. The

junky's situation may be also be a trap, but at the other extreme from

Prufrock's.

Diane: regarding Eliot's visionary qualities--I see him as resembling the

mystic's "dark night of the soul" (St. John of the Cross). "Prufrock"

concludes with the mermaid vision of escape from his drowning in the

world around him (I think Marie quoted the passage); _The Waste Land_

creates an apocalyptic world which has a number of significant parallels

to that of _Howl_, and the message of the thunder offers a trace of hope

in the sterile land. Part II of "Ash Wednesday" begins, "Lady, three

white leopards sat under a juniper-tree / In the cool of the day, having

fed to satiety / On my legs my heart my liver and that which had been

contained / In the hollow round of my skull. And God said / Shall these

bones live?" Is there a definition of _visionary_ which this does satisfy?

All 4 voices of the _Four Quartets_ also provide the spiritual visions,

particularly at the end of Little Gidding, where the sins of the garden

are purified and redeemed by the fire and the rose.

Joseph: Snyder's notion of documentation is one I find attractive, but

I cannot help but believe that the art I value goes beyond that (I will

elaborate more in my next mailing).

Charley: I had been glancing at an issue of _Soft Need_ (#9) at an article

of Burroughs about Brion Gysin's paintings, and I had noticed your "Coca,

Saturn, and Sun": Part 1 was entitled Hallucination Dissertation Manifesto,

and Part 2, interestingly enough, is titled Attila Over the Rooftops.

Sometimes my brain puts handcuffs on certain title, and I carry them around

with me for days on end. At any rate the first section's title occurred to me

in connection with the point I was making in my previous note, so I cited it.

 

To anyone who has read this far, a bonus on women writers: Edgar Allan Poe,

in reviewing a poetry anthology published in the 19th century, commented on

the small number of women included; he concluded that, if women are not well

represented among the great poets, it is because the great poems have yet

to be written. How's that for a compliment coming from a writer not usually

associated with the women's movement.

I would also like to comment on the issue of spontaneous writing, but I will use

another mailing.

Cordially,

Mike Skau

6/25/97

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:36:12 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: How to love a woman long distance...

 

Marlene Dietrich said that: "In America sex is an obsession; in Europe it is

a fact."

C. Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:35:33 -0400

Reply-To:     Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      Re: the last time i committed suicide.

Comments: To: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

In-Reply-To:  <970625201949_1689248464@emout20.mail.aol.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Wed, 25 Jun 1997, Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:

 

> When Allen and I "talked poetry" c 1963,  It was obivious he was a good

> learner, which, I suppose one has to be, to be a good teacher. He kept asking

> me the MEANING of the lines of Blake I had quoted. "Each man is in his

> Specter's power/until the arrival of that hour/when his humanity awakes/and

> castes that Specter in the lake."

 

So what'd you say?

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:05:02 -0500

Reply-To:     Michael Skau <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Skau <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>

Subject:      spontaneity and writing

Content-Type: text

 

Hi again!

I've always felt uncomfortable with the whole first-thought-best-

thought concept, which not even Kerouac and Ginsberg seem to have

been able to adhere to.

Back when I was in college, I found myself very depressed at one point.

The woman I had been seeing had dumped me and now was dating one of my

friends. I felt doubly betrayed, and not having Maya's voodoo skills

I kept all my pain inside. One night when the bars closed, I was walking

home drunk and depressed. The night was bitterly cold, and I had about 5

miles to walk to get home. I came to the Newman House on campus and

decided that I needed to talk to a priest (I had been raised as a Catholic,

 but at this point in the story, I had not been to church for over 3

years), but the housekeeper would not wake the priest up. With this 3rd

betrayal, I returned to the wintry weather. About a mile from home, I had

to cross two parallel sets of railroad tracks, and in the distance I saw

the light of a train heading my way. I sat down in the middle of the tracks

and decided that if the train were on my tracks I was a goner. Well,

as you probably guessed, the train was on the other track. I picked myself

up and walked on home with my wet pants leg freezing to my thigh. The point

is that I don't think that my spontaneous decision was a very healthy one,

and I have difficulty endorsing as a principle for art a principle I could

not endorse for life. Years later, at a poetry reading at Naropa Institute

in Boulder, I heard Gregory Corso address the same principle of first-

thought-best-thought and arrive at virtually the same conclusion: he read a

poem which I think is still unpublished and concluded, "on second thought

I decided not to jump off the Empire State Building."

Someone earlier cited Burroughs's notion that the writer tells the reader

something the reader knows but does not know s/he knows; perhaps the same

thing works for the writer, who as artist writes something s/he knows but

does not know s/he knows. I believe that every great work of art (and even

many that are not great) is a learning experience for the artist, a moment

of growth. The work of art may "document" (Snyder's term, as Joseph Neudorfer

pointed out to us) that moment, but if the artist has truly grown, then

s/he ought to be able to improve upon it--the process then would be endless.

Tolstoy (not a Beat, but a great writer nonetheless) once said that a work

of art is never finished--it is only abandoned.

Well, I did not mean to go on at quite such length. Apologies.

Cordially,

Mike Skau

6/25/97

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:59:19 -0700

Reply-To:     mike@infinet.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael L. Buchenroth" <mike@INFINET.COM>

Organization: Buchenroth Publishing Company

Subject:      Re: Role of the Poet <<craps>>

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:

 

> I heard on the news that one of our main exports to China is chicken > feet

 which they eat as a delicacy. Now we know the Colonel Sanders  > connection. I

 don't how many chicken feet the Chinese will eat in Hong > Kong next week.

 

Here in Columbus, Ohio, a local vending machine company, Sanese, serves

Chicken Beak BBQ Sandwiches in vending machines for $1.50. They're not

bad as long as they grind 'er up real good. And a couple buddies, on a

couple occasions swore they'd bit into a piece a hoof in their BBQ Pork

Sandwiches.

 

When a hog or a chicken goes into Sanese, nothing comes out but

sandwiches....

-Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:23:37 -0400

Reply-To:     Greg Elwell <elwellg@VOICENET.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Greg Elwell <elwellg@VOICENET.COM>

Subject:      Re: spontaneity and writing

Comments: To: Michael Skau <mskau@cwis.unomaha.edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

I remember reading something about WSB, and he was saying that he wasn't a

big fan of spontaneity because he finds that by being spontaneous, he runs

out of stuff to write. He prefers to write a chapter, for example, and then

go back and revise it.  But, as it was mentioned earlier, each

writer/artist, or combonation of both, well whatever you do, each person

has their own method of doing whatever.

 

 

 

At 08:05 PM 6/25/97 -0500, Michael Skau wrote:

>Hi again!

>I've always felt uncomfortable with the whole first-thought-best-

>thought concept, which not even Kerouac and Ginsberg seem to have

>been able to adhere to.

>Back when I was in college, I found myself very depressed at one point.

>The woman I had been seeing had dumped me and now was dating one of my

>friends. I felt doubly betrayed, and not having Maya's voodoo skills

>I kept all my pain inside. One night when the bars closed, I was walking

>home drunk and depressed. The night was bitterly cold, and I had about 5

>miles to walk to get home. I came to the Newman House on campus and

>decided that I needed to talk to a priest (I had been raised as a Catholic,

> but at this point in the story, I had not been to church for over 3

>years), but the housekeeper would not wake the priest up. With this 3rd

>betrayal, I returned to the wintry weather. About a mile from home, I had

>to cross two parallel sets of railroad tracks, and in the distance I saw

>the light of a train heading my way. I sat down in the middle of the tracks

>and decided that if the train were on my tracks I was a goner. Well,

>as you probably guessed, the train was on the other track. I picked myself

>up and walked on home with my wet pants leg freezing to my thigh. The point

>is that I don't think that my spontaneous decision was a very healthy one,

>and I have difficulty endorsing as a principle for art a principle I could

>not endorse for life. Years later, at a poetry reading at Naropa Institute

>in Boulder, I heard Gregory Corso address the same principle of first-

>thought-best-thought and arrive at virtually the same conclusion: he read a

>poem which I think is still unpublished and concluded, "on second thought

>I decided not to jump off the Empire State Building."

>Someone earlier cited Burroughs's notion that the writer tells the reader

>something the reader knows but does not know s/he knows; perhaps the same

>thing works for the writer, who as artist writes something s/he knows but

>does not know s/he knows. I believe that every great work of art (and even

>many that are not great) is a learning experience for the artist, a moment

>of growth. The work of art may "document" (Snyder's term, as Joseph Neudorfer

>pointed out to us) that moment, but if the artist has truly grown, then

>s/he ought to be able to improve upon it--the process then would be endless.

>Tolstoy (not a Beat, but a great writer nonetheless) once said that a work

>of art is never finished--it is only abandoned.

>Well, I did not mean to go on at quite such length. Apologies.

>Cordially,

>Mike Skau

>6/25/97

>

>

ge                    elwellg@voicenet.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:32:47 -0400

Reply-To:     "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz kirby

Subject:      original thought

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

If there is an original thought out there, I could use it right now.

 

Dylan/Shepard

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 25 Jun 1997 22:42:39 -0700

Reply-To:     Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Death of a Poet

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Penn, Douglas, K wrote:

>

> yes, I completely agree.  yet, yet, hesitate to make such claims.

> feeling that creative act in me, seeing it given form, *I* have fear.

> yes.  *I* have fear.  Do not want a messiah complex.  do not want to

> believe that such a "missle" (to quote patricia) could create or

> destroy.  Do not want to ask, why me?, my lord, why me?

> rather, I would distribute this gift accordingly, to everyone and

> everything.  To those whose work goes unrecognized.  those who make

> circuit boards for a living.  those who teach.  those who floss their

> teeth.  Simply put, those who establish an act of being, those are

> creative acts.  creative people.

>

> I do not want to separate the creative act from normal quote unquote

> life.  If god is in the details and true life is better than fiction,

> then please, let us leave both there.  as they be, and let us be

> grateful to recognize their existence.  amen.

>

> A string of sayings floating thru me head, "power, absolute power [read

> creative act] corrupts absolutely".  This is what I meant by fear [or

> partially].

>

> cheers, Douglas

 

I take it you do not want to follow the route of the tortured artist,

saying, "Why me, God?"  Not a route I would choose either. However, words

are powerful, any way you look at it, and from my view, all poets are

burdened with knowledge that can create or destroy.  In your second

paragraph, I see Ginsberg's work as applicable.  Poetry cannot be

separated from the act of being.  The subjects poetry addresses are not

necessarily higher or loftier than those of people getting up in the

morning and going to work, whatever their profession may be, or making

love or flossing your teeth.  In the voice of the poet, these acts that

make us human also take on new knowledge and meaning.  Absolute power

(read creative act/godlike) does not need to corrupt absolutely.  Godlike

does not necessarily mean messiah-like.  Perhaps it is the power to see

infinity and immortality in little acts of humanness.

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 25 Jun 1997 22:51:48 -0700

Reply-To:     Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Drugs & Spontaneity

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:

>

> In a message dated 97-06-25 04:34:02 EDT, you write:

>

> I just finished listening to a CD Allen gave me last November Kronos Quartet

> * HOWL, U.S.A.  Hmmmm..... Should I now hear Anne Sexton?

> C. Plymell

 

I hope not.  I have to say that I went through a period long ago where I

read everything Anne Sexton wrote.  Today all I remember are similes of

life likened to moths and earthworms.  And although I vaguely remember

that she won the Pulitzer Prize at some point, my only vivid recollection

from her work and life is that she commited suicide.

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 25 Jun 1997 22:09:40 -0400

Reply-To:     "Robert H. Sapp" <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Robert H. Sapp" <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>

Subject:      messing 'round

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some antics

 

 

 

 Now  here

    is

  nowhere

    is

 a     God

    is

  a    dog

    as

 anywhere

    is

any   where

    is

  nowhere

 

Words  are

    not

doors  and

     i

 am    not

     a

word   but

     i

  am  also

    not

  a   door

    you

guess it's

   your

turn  still

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Eric Sapp

rhs4@crystal.palace.net

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 25 Jun 1997 23:04:39 -0700

Reply-To:     Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: spontaneity and writing

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Michael Skau wrote:

>

> Someone earlier cited Burroughs's notion that the writer tells the

>reader

> something the reader knows but does not know s/he knows; perhaps the

>same

> thing works for the writer, who as artist writes something s/he knows but

> does not know s/he knows.

 

I believe this often to be the case.  However, revision is not

necessarily the opposite of first-thought, best-thought.  The initial

idea or stream of first-thought, best-thought, can remain and only be

further illuminated. Doesn't mean you lose that first thought in the

revision process.

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:12:29 -0500

Reply-To:     RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      FireWalk saga again

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forgot to include this one before as well.  this is the second piece in

the collection.

 

from FireWalk Thru Madness copyright December 1992 David B. Rhaesa

 

 

COLT - 45

 

While reading Steppenwolf, Harry Haller=92s records -- =93for Madmen Only=

=94

-- the memory returned.  An auditory memory.

 

                                LAUGHTER !!!!!!!!

 

The sinister laughter, cackling laughter, angry - hateful - insane

laughter which came from her mouth, reflected a voice which was new to

me - a voice never heard from the auburn haired ghost before.  The

auburn haired man of stone, listening from the blue room, heard my stern

words, finally escaping my cowardice, finally standing up for myself,

standing up to the ghost who owned my soul.  But the stone man=92s ears

were deaf when it came to her laughter.  He did not witness the

insanity, the complete possession of her mind by irrational evil forces.

 

The forces of evil and insanity came in voices John had warned of ....

The voices of the pit, beckoning those who could hear to take the step

of faith into the realm of unreason to the joy of insanity.  She had

taken the step and in the laughs only I could hear a cry of help.

 

In a brief codependent moment, I foolishly believed that I was her

savior, that I was the only one on earth who could rescue her from the

caverns she had fallen into.  I conjured the abyss in my mind and leaped

in.

 

For nearly six months my mind slipped in and out of realities, fantasies

-- one never knew the real from the fiction. =20

 

I met the Biafran Jew

        who

                read my palm, discussing rainmaking he promised me a trip to meet his

medicine man and learn time travel.  A sorcerer....and threatened my

friends and I fought his mind and he made my body move through space and

time to places I have never known.  He distracted me momentarily with an

hallucination of Black Moses leading his people out of Egypt to a

promised land in the other direction from Israel; and then I saw a Black

Jesus nailed to a Black Cross and then a Woman Named Moses with Auburn

Hair ---- and they burned her at the stake like Joan of Arc ....... then

someone bumped me on the ped mall and I was safe and the sorcerer left

to torment someone else.

 

I sat at the river Styx -- day after day with a deck of cards playing

solitaire -- a game called patience/ a game called Idiot=92s delight.=20

Playing cards with myself.  Playing with myself.  Invisible to most. =20

 

I sang to myself as I turned the cards over and over again the last

lines from Shelter from the Storm - -

 

        =93If I could only turn back the clock

                        to when God and her were born.=94

 

And the wind would howl, and the Iowa river would shake the banks near

me and I would watch the people walk by unable to see me -- seeing

through them.

 

When the winds would die and the smell of tornadoes left the air, I

would begin to walk across the city to Dan and Mary=92s - the dog people =

-

shepherd people - who brought lightness to the dungeons and dragons

games .... games I never played, for I preferred solitaire, playing with

myself.

 

My best friends were sunflowers and when they died I cried and searched

for new sunflowers and one grew seven feet high at my mothers .... and I

went to the law building and taught the classes ... and laughed and

howled at the moon, as the students painted anarchy on the dorm windows

and the counselors cried at the insanity which filled the air.

 

And the priest declared that =93I=94 was Alpha and Omega and I accepted t=

he

part and split the universe in my mind -- angry at the abyss for

stealing the auburn ghost.  I spoke with her once that summer but she

could not see or hear me. =20

 

She read the lawbooks as I saw the black paint cover Danforth Chapel ...

 

And then

astral projection in my mind took me far beyond the galaxy and glancing

back at the Milky Way I saw the gateways to a parallel universe --

hidden doorways at the L-5 points/ gravity points between Earth and

Moon, where they want to put the space station -- and suddenly I

understood her abstinence, her fear of conceiving Captain James Kirk who

was to be born in the town where we lived -- Riverside Iowa, birthplace

of the Starfleet Captain -- Who spoke the prime directive of

non-interference in alien culture while fucking every alien woman he

could lure into the sack.

 

I crashed somewhere near the river.  The reentry was devestating.

 

After a while I took my place on the stone benches and turned the cards

and sang songs to myself.  Then she met me there at the River Styx and I

signed the paper and I was free.  Free at last.  Free at last.  Until

the magician at the Dead Wood aksed if it was what I wanted and I said

it was too late and he showed me his disappearing tricks and said maybe

not and I gave him a book called Miracles and left the decision to the

Universe and told him his magic could make the papers disappear from the

Courthouse if the divorce was not intended by the Fates.

 

Then I tripped down the street to see Batman but left before the Joker

died and talked with the student in the lobby who was reading Zen and

the Art of Motorcycle Maintenence.

 

And I retired to the Heartland to the banks of the Missouri River and

collected myself collected from people all around the country and played

Hanks Williams=92 songs =93I=92m so lonesome I could Cry=94 on Dan=92s Re=

d, White

and Blue Buck Owens=92 guitar and I helped Mary with her Alzheimer=92s by

trading minds with her and with her thoughts in my mind I was diagnosed.

 

So I escaped to the camp by the River and rested for a year preparing

for my journey from the pit.  The climb out of Hell would require all my

energy.  So I came to the banks of the Mississippi River - Highway 61

Revisited - After my father had sacrificed me to old Doc Whitehead and

his Haldol. =20

 

I abandoned solitaire for spades and played often with three Rock Island

Ghosts - one who=92d been to Woodstock and then to prison when his father

and brother sacrificed him on Highway 61 for a little marijuana.  And

then the divorce destroyed his mind just as mine had - so I gave him my

wedding band and he wore it as a pinky ring.  I still wear his stocking

cap to sleep for protection from the brainstorms.

 

His partner in spades was a homemaker not by choice - by fear.  A lover

once took some acid and then took a lighter and burned her vagina and

she protected herself with several quarts of Colt 45 each day and she

never left the house in the two years I knew her and once she took

twenty-five minutes to decide which card to place because her mind was

so distracted from the alcohol haze.

 

My partner was a giant ghost who saw Jimi Hendrix alive in Davenport and

thought Hitler was righteous and he explained the angel paintings and

deconstructed words to find hidden meanings.  The hospital was the true

pit, the clue was right there in the middle of the word -- hos-PIT-al --

so he didn=92t take his medications very often.

 

And we were playing spades and Fleetwood Mac was playing hypnotize and

then David Gilmore started playing out of this world and I left my body

and looked down and saw us playing cards and when I returned I was sick

for hours and passed out on the couch I gave them. =20

 

The next day I told a freind I almost died several times on that couch.=20

I felt my heart stop and start again.

 

Janis Joplin sang a funeral song while I read a clipping about AIDs not

knowing that the auburn ghost was working on quilts in San Francisco and

the brainstorm came and lasted four days .... no identity ... no sleep

... for four days walking aimlessly searching for hope

...........................

 

And I reached the white house long past midnight and the stairs were lit

by a Goddess and as I climbed the stairs I heard Led Zepelin in my mind=20

 

and each level reflected another stage of cosnciousness.  when I reached

the third level a huge American flag symbolized the New World Order ...=20

I saw a stairway going up and realized that the flag and the New Order

were a sham.

 

I went to the next level=20

sat on a lawn chair

threw a lightbulb=20

into the parking lot

my last bright idea

shattered on the pavement.

 

REM=92s =93It=92s the End of the World as we know it=94 played in my head=

. =20

 

I took the child=92s toy, the red chalice brought it to my lips and

quenched my thirst.  I heard William Burroughs voice:  =93A wise man once

said that you can only call the Doctor once.=94  I smelled the unleaded o=

n

my breath.  My mind screamed out : =93Doctor!  Doctor!=94

 

I lived.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 25 Jun 1997 22:22:32 -0400

Reply-To:     "Robert H. Sapp" <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Robert H. Sapp" <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>

Subject:      poesia and posies

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hello Beat-list folk, quite a busy time of cyberyear, i spend more time

seeking random bits of info before deleting, sad sad, well now i'm talkin'...

 

I always liked Kerouac's Spontaneous suggestions, though spontaneaeaity

aint limit ed to a particular set of circumstances -- i mean ya dont

haveta by hopped up on caffee n benny hunched o'er a typewriter or pen n

pad or blank wall or -- since spontaneaous writin is just Mind writin

cannot there be Spontaneous Revisions -- i mean, there CAN be -- isnt a

revision just another flash of insight in the brain, even if ya spend

hours years mulling over a problem often the solution comes in split

seconds, like writin a term paper fo' school, takes a lot of timewasting

and considerably few actual productive timeslots for me, tho sometimes

the reaction must simmer...

 

anyway, I personally, in my prolific (mostly unRead though i assure you

genius!) work of writing i generally stick with NO revisions, for several

or a few reasones:

 

1) i am lazy. proud slacker.

2) like to save shit.

3)no time, more stuff to compose.

 

etc,etc,etc.

 

i can sometimes think of my poetry as carrying on a conversation record

of thoughts for myself. like, in a conversation, you can't erase a

statement. you can ammend it, move on, say new things, but a statement

(though perhaps meaningless) is out there. So, in writing, i usually

leave things as they were when i was actively jotting a pieceafter maybe

adding the "s" 's i forgot or correcting it to the words i wanted to say

(that were said in my mind) and simply scribbled through cursively

reckless, whatever. I'll just compose another pome if i wanna say

somethin new rather than try to eradicate an earlier one. Great!

 

adios, A dios,

 

if any one cares,

Eric

rhs4@crystal.palace.net

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 25 Jun 1997 22:05:10 -0500

Reply-To:     RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      [Fwd: Re: The Role of the Poet]

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sent this sometime last night.  got the OVERDRAFT notice having exceeded

my number of post per day alotment.  i had been counting so carefully i

thought certainly i had one left.  but i was wrong.

 

so ... since i saved a bunch today i can waste one by resending these.

and if i can kick this sleepiness that is overcoming - i might just have

to shoot the rest of my wad for the day in the next few minutes.  but

sleepiness may win out.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

 

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Message-ID: <33B07ECD.1241@midusa.net>

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:13:33 -0500

From: RACE --- <race@midusa.net>

X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I)

MIME-Version: 1.0

To: Beat-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Subject: Re: The Role of the Poet

References: <33AF17D9.AA6@discovland.net> <l03020900afd52a9e495b@[198.5.212.77]>

 <l03020902afd594cb57df@[198.5.212.108]>

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runner911 wrote:

>

> At 1:53 AM -0700 6/24/97, RACE --- wrote:

>

> > actually, the answer  would be an EMPHATIC no.  The kind of poet being

> > described in that quotation is the poet as magician and most easily

> > understood as a word alchemist.  if one accepts the power of symbols in

> > shaping reality, the poet's ability to Perceive and then stir the

> > symbolic soup is a Real form of contemporary alchemy.  What you were

> > referring to is probably a real creature but my hunch is that the

> > alchemist can with some effort overcome the population of these middle

> > aged gentlement in terms of pure magic.

>

> yes, and my argument for the definition of a poet would necessitate that

> this "magician" and "alchemist" spend time on the SHITLIST.  Oh, god

> forbid, our poet should have a criminal record!  should be despised by a

> great many.  From these latest clarifications, sounds like you're

> describing some teenage african-american, sent-up for 5-10 on crack related

> charges.  Is this what you meant???  :-)

>

> >

> > david rhaesa

> > salina, Kansas

>

> cheers, Douglas

>

> http://www.electriciti.com/babu/                summer

> save it, just keep it off my wave               is

>   -- ("my wave," soundgarden)                   here

 

to be perfectly honest i don't remember typing these words.

 

so i guess they can mean whatever you want them to mean.

 

if i typed them i can't believe that i wasn't joking.  of course, as the

day progressed i may have convinced myself as all too often happens that

humour is deadly serious.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

 

living in a state of perpetual dream-state

 

 

--------------7F7DBDC6F87--

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 25 Jun 1997 23:35:37 -0400

Reply-To:     Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Kronos and Glass

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Charles,

 

        If you enjoyed the Kronos Howl (what about the Harry Partch piece

too?  ...that's pretty beat.) you should listen to Hydrogen Jukebox by

Philip Glass which has some very apt readings by Allen. I've enjoyed it greatly.

 

        By the way, along with my T-shirt order from Jeffrey, I've ordered

"Last of the Mocassins" - the signed version. Haven't gotten it yet...it'll

come with the Breat list t-shirt.

 

        Speaking of which....listen up everyone...if you haven't yet gotten

your order in, do so now...immediately...do not pass go, do not collect $200

- don't wait...Jeffrey's depleted bank account awaits your order!

 

        Antoine

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

     "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"

                        -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 25 Jun 1997 22:44:45 -0500

Reply-To:     Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      lena wants to join the list and

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well the kid wants to join the list, i told her to send subscribe to

this address i had and it just bounced back.  If someone wants to help

her her e-mail address is

lena@sunflower.com.

i have mixed emotions, know if she gets on i probably should watch my

spelling because she will tut tut me.  She has shown such an interest in

reading and writing this summer i am thrilled. Her computer sits besides

mine and she and i discuss self censorship of material with her, well i

think that she will be fine.p

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:49:38 -0700

Reply-To:     Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: Kronos and Glass

Comments: To: Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

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Antoine Maloney wrote:

 

>         Speaking of which....listen up everyone...if you haven't yet gotten

> your order in, do so now...immediately...do not pass go, do not collect $200

> - don't wait...Jeffrey's depleted bank account awaits your order!

 

What do you need to do to order? I was cecking out Charley's page a few

days ago and saw a picture of the Beat-L shirt asvertised to the public

for 19.95 or something like that. How much are they for us?

 

leon

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 26 Jun 1997 01:27:04 +0000

Reply-To:     "neudorf@discovland.net" <neudorf@DISCOVLAND.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "neudorf@discovland.net" <neudorf@DISCOVLAND.NET>

Subject:      Perfection

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Mike Skau wrote:

 

> Tolstoy once said that a work of art is never finished--it is only abandoned.

 

Interesting - but if an artist is experimenting with a particular form,

and that form seems to have been perfected (i use 'seem', because

perfection is not objective), is it not finished? To become the Buddha

you must kill the Buddha. Perfect a style / project / work of art and

then drop it, move on to another. Perhaps this is just a matter of

terminology.

 

Joseph Neudorfer

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 26 Jun 1997 02:52:07 -0400

Reply-To:     Sean Kelley <skelley@VOICENET.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sean Kelley <skelley@VOICENET.COM>

Subject:      Hard-to-find videos for sale!

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Beat Documentaries/Fiction

**************************

"Burroughs"  (1983, 87 min, Brookner)  ...  $74.99

"Commissioner of the Sewers"  (1986, 60 min, Maeck)  ...  $39.99

"Fried Shoes Cooked Diamonds" (1978, 55 min, Allione)  ...  $39.99

"Gang of Souls"  (1988, 60 min, Beatty)  ...  $59.99

"Heart Beat"  (1980, 109 min, Byrum)  ...  $29.99

"Jack Kerouac's Road"  (1987, 55 min, Chaisson)  ...  $59.99

"Kerouac"  (1984, 100 min, Allen & Burroughs)  ...  INQUIRE

"The Life and Times of Allen Ginsberg"  (1993, 83 min, Aronson)  ...  $39.99

"Naked Lunch"  (1991, 115 min, Cronenberg)  ...  $29.99

"Old Habits Die Hard"  (1990, 60 min, compilation)  ...  $49.99

"Poetry in Motion"  (1985, 90 min, Mann)  ...  $49.99

"Towers Open Fire"  (1962-72, 35 min, Balch)  ...  $39.99

"What Happened to Kerouac?"  (1986, 96 min, Lerner & MacAdams)  ...  $79.99

 

If there are Jim Jarmusch, Tom Waits, or other Beat-oriented video

titles you are looking for, please email a request at Aardvark Video

at http://www.voicenet.com/~skelley or simply respond to this message.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 26 Jun 1997 02:38:17 -0400

Reply-To:     "Dean M. Palmer" <dean_palmer@JUNO.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Dean M. Palmer" <dean_palmer@JUNO.COM>

Subject:      Bukowski

 

Has anyone read much Bukowski? I was peruding my local book vendor when I

noticed "Pulp" and just basically thought it looked neat. I purchased,

read, and laughed my ass off. That is one hell of a read. Is anyone else

familiar with his work?

 

/\/\/\/\/\~Dean_Palmer@juno.com~/\/\/\/\/\

/\/\/\/\/\~Funny English Joke; man and wife in living room, phone rings,

man answers and says he wouldn't know, better call the coast guard, and

hangs up, wife says, "Who was it, dear?" and man says, "I don't know,

some damn fool who

wanted to know if the coast was clear." har-har-har (Neal

Cassady)~/\/\/\/\/\

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 26 Jun 1997 00:48:57 -0700

Reply-To:     vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Adrien Begrand <vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>

Subject:      back from the ashes

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Hi all!

 

Glad to be back.

Couldn't stay away for long...

 

Adrien

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 25 Jun 1997 23:43:42 -0700

Reply-To:     Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      References to T-shirt

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Here are the URL's to save you some time if you don't have them handy

and  would like to have a look.

 

BTW My apologies to Charles Plymell. Shouldn't have called him Charley,

since I haven't met him. However, there was no disrespect intended. The

shirt is mentioned in his page http://www.buchenroth.com/cplymell.html

 

> April Fool's Day 1997 S. Clay Wilson, Cherry Valley, NY During this

 snow-storm'n, S.

> Clay Wilson visit to the Plymells, April, 1997, spawn the idea of the now

 famous S.   > Clay Wilson, BEAT-L, T-Shirt .... now available from Jeffrey H.

 Weinberg owner of     > Water Row Books. Jeffrey also sells Last of the

 Moccasins.

 

Wilson's drawing for the shirt is pictured at the Waterrow page:

http://www.waterrowbooks.com/shirtpage.html

 

leon

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 26 Jun 1997 01:17:04 -0700

Reply-To:     runner911 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         runner911 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Subject:      Re: Death of a Poet

In-Reply-To:  <33B2014F.788A@together.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 10:42 PM -0700 6/25/97, Diane Carter wrote:

 

> does not necessarily mean messiah-like.  Perhaps it is the power to see

> infinity and immortality in little acts of humanness.

 

perhaps.  am still pissy towards the idea, though. :-)

 

<<Part of me would still like to see James Dean strung out the window of

his car crash.  perhaps his body thrown clear from the wreckage?  a

chicklet, or slim jim snagging his tongue like a cigarette.  his fly open

and vultures picking apart his penis.>>

 

and the application of power, Diane, not just the "seeing"?  The work

applied?  what of that?  sorry to grind your beautiful idea into the

grindstone.  put it through all my ideological wringers.  perhaps under the

strain of our 10 ton questions, between our cuddling remarks (quote

unquote), perhaps our poetics shall meet??

 

"she'll touch your perfect body with her mind" - Leonard Cohen (Suzanne)

 

What'd you think of Maya's love-sad and death-happy poem?  awesome....

 

> DC

 

tired and strung out, insomniac Douglas

 

http://www.electriciti.com/babu/                summer

save it, just keep it off my wave               is

  -- ("my wave," soundgarden)                   here

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 26 Jun 1997 01:18:43 -0700

Reply-To:     runner911 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         runner911 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Subject:      Re: [Fwd: Re: The Role of the Poet]

In-Reply-To:  <33B1DC66.1770@midusa.net>

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David writ:

 

> living in a state of perpetual dream-state

 

did you dream you were me?  I wrote that.

 

xoxo, Douglas

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:09:08 +0200

Reply-To:     Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: messing 'round

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.BSD/.3.91.970625220315.524B-100000@crystal.palace.net >

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"Robert H. Sapp" <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET> wrote:

>some antics

>

>

>

> Now  here

>    is

>  nowhere

>    is

> a     God

>    is

>  a    dog

>    as

> anywhere

>    is

>any   where

>    is

>  nowhere

>

>Words  are

>    not

>doors  and

>     i

> am    not

>     a

>word   but

>     i

>  am  also

>    not

>  a   door

>    you

>guess it's

>   your

>turn  still

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>Eric Sapp

>rhs4@crystal.palace.net

>

>

&

gave Off sparks

On the stOne

dO      Or      s

"NO     One     Here    Get     Out     Alive"--jm

30yrs agO was nOt sO sad

are we wOrd-machine

Or

blurred sepia phOtos

Only    gOd knOws what we are

anyOne Offended by my wOrds

im' guilt & deeply apOlogies

but in all sincerity i lOve u

my friends-- yrs RinaldO

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 26 Jun 1997 08:03:59 -0500

Reply-To:     RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      dreams and chickens

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runner911 wrote:

>

> David writ:

>

> > living in a state of perpetual dream-state

>

> did you dream you were me?  I wrote that.

>

> xoxo, Douglas

 

there was a quoted portion from me that i didn't recall.  at least it

said RACE wrote somewhere at the top.  the writing appeared that it

could have been mine.  i just was not consciously writing anything on

that day ... except for the bit about Barry ... the rest was merely deam

typing.  so if you clipped yourself out of one of my posts where i'd

left part or whole of one of your posts so that it appeared that i had

written what you had actually written then it would have made a bit more

sense that i didn't recall the typing of it.  but i was still definitely

in a dream-world.  the last thing i really consciously remembered doing

in thewhole thing was saying well this thread with different quotes

about what poet is could use the perspective of Colin Wilson.  But i

wasn't going to say that it was definitive by any means.  just another

angle.  then the discussion between us took off and the rest of the

quotations were lost in this alchemical dialogue that led to the

wonderful notion of Kentucky Fried Chicken which unfortunately left me

quite hungry.

 

I think it will be interesting and i may go back to it today or tomorrow

to go back to the original thread with the quotations and see how they

weave together into something that is -- less divisive -- perhaps.

 

sincerely,

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

 

p.s. around these parts the best chicken is called "Brookville Chicken".

After that comes "Jim's".  I imagine that Kentucky Fried is third on the

list.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:08:19 -0400

Reply-To:     Marioka7@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: does anyone here speak french?

 

translation by greg e.:

<<

 When the moon is full

 and my heart longing for you

 I think of you carressing me

 with more love(tenderness)

 than your cat.

 

  But the moon is rarely full

  and your cat spies me with his yellow eyes, full

  of hate.

  It is clear to whom you belong.

  >>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:58:43 -0400

Reply-To:     Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Role of the Poet <<craps>>

Comments: To: "Michael L. Buchenroth" <mike@infinet.com>

In-Reply-To:  <33B1E917.FFF@buchenroth.com>

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On Wed, 25 Jun 1997, Michael L. Buchenroth wrote:

 

> Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:

>

> > I heard on the news that one of our main exports to China is chicken > feet

>  which they eat as a delicacy.

>

> Here in Columbus, Ohio, a local vending machine company, Sanese, serves

> Chicken Beak BBQ Sandwiches in vending machines for $1.50. They're not

> bad as long as they grind 'er up real good. And a couple buddies, on a

> couple occasions swore they'd bit into a piece a hoof in their BBQ Pork

> Sandwiches.

 

Also in Columbus is a large Oriental food supply store (on N. High Street)

which sells a number of strange animal parts and whatnot. At a decent price,

too.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:31:03 -0400

Reply-To:     Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      Re: SNET: Re: ADV Weekly Transcripts (fwd)

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Saw this on another list. Wasn't aware of this one...

 

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 23:49:53 -0400

From: Psyberdude <rturmel@clark.net>

Reply-To: snetnews@world.std.com

To: snetnews@world.std.com

Subject: RE: SNET: Re: ADV Weekly Transcripts

 

[snipped]

 

Don't forget that this wonderfully warm person named Ambrose Pierce

said:

 

>>The world would be a lot cleaner place if

>>all of his kind were swept up and buried in a deep hole somewhere.

 

>>Every newspaper writer who praised Ginsberg's trash,

>>every newspaper editor who allowed the praise to be published in his

>>paper, every university librarian who eagerly recommended Ginsberg's

>>filth as "poetry,"  every literary reviewer who treated Ginsberg

>>seriously every one of them should be rounded up and shot.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 26 Jun 1997 12:05:10 -0400

Reply-To:     "Robert H. Sapp" <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Robert H. Sapp" <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Bukowski

Comments: To: "Dean M. Palmer" <dean_palmer@JUNO.COM>

In-Reply-To:  <19970626.023818.16198.0.dean_palmer@juno.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

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havent read very much prose by him, but i love his poetry. he has a sort

of drunken clarity like being poked in the arm hard with a dull spoon.

 

~days in the library and nights in bars~

 

 

 

adios,

Eric

rhs4@crystal.palace.net

 

 

"you tell me why i'm on fire like old dry garbage" buk (from memory)

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 26 Jun 1997 12:18:54 -0400

Reply-To:     Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Bukowski

Comments: To: "Robert H. Sapp" <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.BSD/.3.91.970626115948.20197B-100000@crystal.palace.net>

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On Thu, 26 Jun 1997, Robert H. Sapp wrote:

 

> havent read very much prose by him, but i love his poetry. he has a sort

> of drunken clarity like being poked in the arm hard with a dull spoon.

 

His prose is excellent (imho better than his poetry but maybe that's just

me, i like prose more in general anyway), very clean and tight -- like HST,

he's one of the better Beat-related writers when it comes to understanding

punctuation and writing clean, tight prose.

 

Michael Stutz

stutz@dsl.org

http://dsl.org/m/

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:51:12 -0700

Reply-To:     "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>

Subject:      Re: spontaneity and writing

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Mike writ:

>

><< Tolstoy (not a Beat, but a great writer nonetheless) once said that a work

>of art is never finished--it is only abandoned.

Well, I did not mean to go on at quite such length. Apologies.>>

 

Never read any of Tolstoy's work because of the length.  yours was

bearable.  Interesting to hear these ideas.  In a round a bout way,

spontaneity connects over to the thread on "accidents" and how these are

the same as "planned" events.  And coming late to this discussion, let

me only say that drugs (of all kinds) cause the mind to litter itself

with accidents.

 

ASIDE::You folx ever watch the "actor's studio" on Bravo TV?  Every

interview end with a question by Bernard Pevo (sp?) that includes the

question: "what is your favorite drug?  It can be a feeling, a chemical,

whatnot."  Some people might answer love, coffee, the smell of donuts in

the morning.

 

Well, my point being that the "best kind" of spontaneity sucks out all

the previous accidents and spills them together in a new form.  Takes up

all the abandoned pieces of earlier works, the shavings, the setasides,

and makes them work together.  Of course, if you've already wiped your

slate clean, you have no ideas, or are simply unable to hoover your mind

open - then well, that's a different story.

 

perhaps spontaneity is just a remembering of possibilities (abandoned

accidents, heavenly interventions, intiution, self-destruction...).

>

>> Cordially,

>> Mike Skau

 

cheers, Douglas  <<looking forward to another 8 hours of spont..zzzzz

work)

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:49:59 -0400

Reply-To:     MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@OTC.USOC.CCHUB.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@OTC.USOC.CCHUB.COM>

Subject:      Re[2]: SNET: Re: ADV Weekly Transcripts (fwd)

Comments: To: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Mime-Version: 1.0

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Let me guess--a critic.  To paraphrase the Bard:

 

'First thing we do let's take all the critic's typewriters away'

 

(I don't advocate killing)

 

>>Don't forget that this wonderfully warm person named Ambrose Pierce

>>said:

     blah, blah blah

>>every literary reviewer who treated Ginsberg seriously every one of

>>them should be rounded up and shot.

     blah, blah, blah

 

     I'm trying desperately to decide if critics are building bad Karma or

     paying it off.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:05:34 -0700

Reply-To:     "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>

Subject:      Re: poesia and posies

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Robert gives reasons for not revising:

 

>> 1) i am lazy. proud slacker.

>> 2) like to save shit.

>> 3)no time, more stuff to compose.

>>

>> etc,etc,etc.

>

perhaps I watch too much TV, but heard this movie studio exec commenting

on why certain films are readily accepted for distribution and why

others are not.  She went on record saying, "if only they included one

more car crash, one more scene with scantily clad women, more guns,

another.... then, they could recoup their investments, get money to make

the next film."  She seemed incredulous that more people didn't do that.

 Compromise.

 

I understand both sides.  Have always resisted outside forces telling me

to "polish" my work.  fuck em, I said, if they can't take a joke.  And I

just continued with #3, composing, composing.  Running down my own

track.  train of thought.

 

So what happens with all the stuff you save?  Ever go back and look at

it?  I've been scouring my archives recently, looking for inspiration,

ways to refurbish old ideas.  You might consider doing the same.  It's

kinda fun actually.  "I thought that?  I did that?  man, that was

stupid.... oh great, I'd thought I'd lost those..... I can use these....

trash, trash, trash."  As someone else was saying, the cleared space is

nice too.  Room for more shit!  ;-)

 

just wait till you *have* to move.  Your #1 reason will evaporate and

you'll be surprised at the results.  And come one, you revise, I know

you do.  Admit it!

 

><<slackers forever>>, Douglas

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:43:17 -0700

Reply-To:     "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>

Subject:      Dear Chickenheads:

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Dear Chickenheads, slackers, and fellow beat travellers:

 

Have received a message from god, <<hail almighty>>, to cease and desist

my non beat postings.  Ah, my line was at its end, this I knew, but to

receive a message from on high....  ah, this is a blessing, indeed.  I

can return to my gang now and feel satisfied that my work here is

complete.  <<Rack one for me boys, I'm comin' home!>>  :-)

 

Sorry to have plagued you all.  Will be sparse and to the point in the

future.

 

beat on, brother deep, Douglas

 

 

"the map is not the territory"                  babu@electriciti.com

  (attribution unknown)                 www.electriciti.com/babu/

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 26 Jun 1997 12:24:52 -0700

Reply-To:     "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>

Subject:      Re: The Role of the Poet (and education thereof)

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J. Stauffer wrote:

 

><<In our world a poet is someone who can get at least a few other people

>to agree that what he or she does is poetry.>>

 

Yes, but can a poet exist soley?  alone without recognition?  Before

they got published and commercially sanitized by Time Magazine, were the

beats "poets"?  Or were they just a bunch of educated whacks?  Before

every word became sacred, before the eyes of the world became them, I

wonder what the early years were like.  Any reading recommendations??

Something akin to Norman Mailer's "portait of picasso as a young man"

would be great.

 

>> J Stauffer

 

brother deep, Douglas

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 26 Jun 1997 21:26:24 +0200

Reply-To:     Ksenija Simic <ksenija@GALOIS.MI.SANU.AC.YU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Ksenija Simic <ksenija@GALOIS.MI.SANU.AC.YU>

Subject:      Alchemist

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I don't know if any of you have read the book Alchemist by Paolo Koellio (I

think that the spelling is similar to that). It is deffinitely worth it. It

may answer some of everybody's dillemmas.

 

Ksenija

 

PS. You may have noticed by the name that I am not of American origin; as a

matter of fact, I live far, far away, in Yugoslavi (remember that country:

war, protests...). Well, maybe you will like to know that most of us have

grown up on Kerouac and the beatsm and that it doesn't matter where you

live, but HOW.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 26 Jun 1997 15:29:59 -0400

Reply-To:     Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      the dance of the seven beggars

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.BSD/.3.91.970625220315.524B-100000@crystal.palace.net>

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it was meant to be centered on page. if you are interested, convert. loses

a lot with left justified. mc

 

THE DANCE OF THE SEVEN BEGGARS

 

 

1

i come to your office

weekly

 

50 minutes

out of all the minutes

in the week

 

it seems hardly

barely

not

enough

time

 

i panic,

as i spill out overflowing

in the minutes

outside

the

regulation

50

 

obvious

it's my fault

in the office your voice is warm

warm and helpful

you listen so well

and when i am able to look in your eyes

they are as warm

as your voice

 

but i am just a beggar here

one of many

seven or so

more or less:

no differrence

 

i

don't pay

you say

that's ok

 

but however i see it

i am a beggar

in the wall street

balance sheet

of psychotherapy

i

know

i have no right

to ask for

more

 

already beggar-woman

the woman in the shoe

too many children to know

just what to

do

 

beggar child woman

hears

 

"be grateful for what you get,

shut up about the rest!"

shrieksmother in my head

she's still there

she's angry

that secrets are being told

and that we all NEED so much

it frightens me

 

i live with my mother

 all the other

minutes in the week

i'm too

polite to kick her out

 

i've gotten better

at calling

and listening to your voice

without

asking for  rescue

 

i hardly call at all

anymore

 

but, last week i called

and no warmth in yr voice

an "oh well"

said in an "oh well" sort of voice

in fact

you did say

"oh well" that day

 

i needed a plumber and i called the electrician again.

you were right

dead right

one more black mark

i can't get it right

ah.....go fuck yourself

 

i hear you say,

reasonably,

"you need a lawyer not me "

you gave advice

i took the advice

 

your dog in background

obvious

you called from your home

i

called during office hours

i

i wanted only a few moments of

office time

 

the humiliation

of hearing your dog bark

in your house

 

my face still burns in shame

two things at once:

sound advice

cold voice

 

obvious in your voice,

distant

many quiet/no speak moments

obvious

i had intruded

obvious

i had intruded

obvious

that all the wes in me

have to be more invisible

in order

to be seen

 

this dance of the seven veils

the seven beggars

the seven children

the seven hellbentforleatherchicks

the

seven beggar child-women

 

this dance must be danced

in your

office only

 we yet don't know the steps outside

the regulation

50

we often stumble

beat is off

paradox:

we just called

to hear the

beat of your heart

 

obvious

that the week holds 50 minutes

and should hold no more

 

don't want to do the ' so unworthy'

dance

no more.

mc 6/26/97

 

 

 

2

THIS IS NOT A GUILT TRIP(works well with  this and this is not love song

sex ps)

i

come to your office

weekly

 

50 minutes

out of all the minutes

remaining in the week

 

it

seems hardly

barely

not

enough

 

i panic, overflowing,

 

screaming, throw us a rope!

or,

quick switchz:

 

>>>>>>>>>>ah go fuck yrself

 

i

gotta get down from this cross

i've been riding

all these long days

 

but, as long as i'm on it,

sit up and hear the truth!

 

i can't pay you

and in the economics of therapy

hierarchies thrive

 

money talks, or lets others talk for hours and years

no silver crosses your palm

hierarchies are maintained:

 

we are on c-rations:

the  50 minute hour

 

"be grateful for what you've got!

rants the mother in my head

yep she's still up there

rent free.

talk of family economies!

when we spoke last week

on the phone

your warm voice disappeared!

and a laconic attitude seemed to take its place

an 'oh well'

said in an 'oh well' sort of voice

 

your sound advice

cold voice

 dog in the background

 

(obvious

 

lots of quiet/no speak moments

 

( i had intruded)

 

obvious

that the week holds 50 minutes

for me.

no difference.

 

mc 6/26/97

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:27:24 -0400

Reply-To:     "Robert H. Sapp" <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Robert H. Sapp" <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Dear Chickenheads:

Comments: To: "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>

In-Reply-To:  <c=US%a=_%p=OEES%l=SD-MAIL-970626184317Z-5152@sd-mail.sd.oees.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

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speaking of the almighty --

                            i just heard

 

the ironing board drying

 

                                (crying)

 

 

 

"The Holy Spirit specializes in setting people free from crack." -- a

hispanic evangelist on a television church program on higher cable

 

 

 

What is the Warld

                 coming

                       too

                          ?

 

 

from,

Eric

rhs4@crystal.palace.net

 

 

On Thu, 26 Jun 1997, Penn, Douglas, K wrote:

 

> Dear Chickenheads, slackers, and fellow beat travellers:

>

> Have received a message from god, <<hail almighty>>, to cease and desist

> my non beat postings.  Ah, my line was at its end, this I knew, but to

> receive a message from on high....  ah, this is a blessing, indeed.  I

> can return to my gang now and feel satisfied that my work here is

> complete.  <<Rack one for me boys, I'm comin' home!>>  :-)

>

> Sorry to have plagued you all.  Will be sparse and to the point in the

> future.

>

> beat on, brother deep, Douglas

>

>

> "the map is not the territory"                  babu@electriciti.com

>   (attribution unknown)                 www.electriciti.com/babu/

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:48:28 -0400

Reply-To:     Matthew W Barton <mwb201@IS5.NYU.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Matthew W Barton <mwb201@IS5.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      i say, i say chickenhawk

Comments: To: "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>

In-Reply-To:  <c=US%a=_%p=OEES%l=SD-MAIL-970626184317Z-5152@sd-mail.sd.oees.com>

MIME-version: 1.0

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statement of intent:  i intend to post all information i feel relative to

this list-serve.  i belong to other lists which discuss topics which

do not directly touch upon beat literature.  content to

discuss the act of signing, binary opposites, and logocentrism elsewhere i

shall continue to post messages "beat".  each member opts to recieve this

mail, i have been sorry to see some leave the list, rather than recieve

the mail.  i've deleted your messages and railed against you publicly and

privately.  i will continue to delete those i find bothersome and not

respond to those that i would rather dissagree with privately.  i shall

not stop having opinions or intrests which conflicts with many of you, as

you i.  please ignore me if i bother you, as i you (sometimes).

bill will censor can censor me if he pleases.  were that i was the passive

poet.

        the process of information transferance in a post modern culture

requires canon makers.  whom have you read?  why?  what do we collect in

the libraries.  what shall we teach and create?  i did not come to this

list for idols, personally.  i have come to learn and share perceptions of

the word.  they will conflict with others, i will shake my fist, i will

argue, i will see, i may possibly apologize.

 

i just wanted to let everyone know how i will contine to post.  if i leave

the list, i have been kicked off.  you may contact me privately if it ever

happens.  should i ever offend you, please don't leave, fight back -- its

more beat.  we read tough books, some have lead tough lives.  how could

anyone possibly fucking expect anyone else on the list to mind the q's.

 

this is not addressed to douglas or anyone else.  i respect almost all

of you and i cannot thank you all enough for the steel taste of your work.

 

mwbarton.

 

On Thu, 26 Jun 1997, Penn, Douglas, K wrote:

 

> Dear Chickenheads, slackers, and fellow beat travellers:

>

> Have received a message from god, <<hail almighty>>, to cease and desist

> my non beat postings.  Ah, my line was at its end, this I knew, but to

> receive a message from on high....  ah, this is a blessing, indeed.  I

> can return to my gang now and feel satisfied that my work here is

> complete.  <<Rack one for me boys, I'm comin' home!>>  :-)

>

> Sorry to have plagued you all.  Will be sparse and to the point in the

> future.

>

> beat on, brother deep, Douglas

>

>

> "the map is not the territory"                  babu@electriciti.com

>   (attribution unknown)                 www.electriciti.com/babu/

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:55:00 -0400

Reply-To:     Matthew W Barton <mwb201@IS5.NYU.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Matthew W Barton <mwb201@IS5.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Alchemist

Comments: To: Ksenija Simic <ksenija@GALOIS.MI.SANU.AC.YU>

In-Reply-To:  <199706261926.VAA01717@galois.mi.sanu.ac.yu>

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

could you tell me something about koellio?  don't mind the hometown

launguage games.  it seems through this general thread regarding the

creative process people have been lining up into various theory camps.

watch out, the romantics have claimed the sun for the poet, the

deconstuctions haven't spoken, the artists wave their products, and the

list-serve boils.

 

mwbarton.

 

On Thu, 26 Jun 1997, Ksenija Simic wrote:

 

> I don't know if any of you have read the book Alchemist by Paolo Koellio (I

> think that the spelling is similar to that). It is deffinitely worth it. It

> may answer some of everybody's dillemmas.

>

> Ksenija

>

> PS. You may have noticed by the name that I am not of American origin; as a

> matter of fact, I live far, far away, in Yugoslavi (remember that country:

> war, protests...). Well, maybe you will like to know that most of us have

> grown up on Kerouac and the beatsm and that it doesn't matter where you

> live, but HOW.

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 26 Jun 1997 14:47:50 -0700

Reply-To:     "Lisa M. Rabey" <lisar@NET-LINK.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Lisa M. Rabey" <lisar@NET-LINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: Bukowski

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.LNX.3.94.970626121724.10470U-100000@seka.nacs.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 12:18 PM 6/26/97 -0400, you wrote:

>On Thu, 26 Jun 1997, Robert H. Sapp wrote:

>

>> havent read very much prose by him, but i love his poetry. he has a sort

>> of drunken clarity like being poked in the arm hard with a dull spoon.

>

>His prose is excellent (imho better than his poetry but maybe that's just

>me, i like prose more in general anyway), very clean and tight -- like HST,

>he's one of the better Beat-related writers when it comes to understanding

>punctuation and writing clean, tight prose.

 

Actually, buk had a disdain dislike for the beats, and did not associate

himself with them. he was partial to a few, but all of the beats.

 

 

ttfn.

 

lisa

--

 

        Lisa M. Rabey       Computer Consultant         UIN: 1231211

         ************************************************************

          words...1000's of words.. wrapped together like wire

                   how easy it would be to hate you

                 and yet that is all i can show you.

                      Nothing lasts forever. -me

 

                 http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:40:19 -0500

Reply-To:     Michael Skau <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Skau <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>

Subject:      jacking off

Content-Type: text

 

Hi,

The June 9, 1997 issue of _Time_ had a cover feature on generation X.

One article, "Peace is an Xcellent Adventure," by Joshua Cooper Ramo,

begins in this fashion:

It's hard to judge a generation by its statistics. Five years ago, my

generation was a group of overstuffed slackers; today we're Gordon Gekkos.

An unlikely transformation. But there's at least one statistic that

resonates: more of us are taking a full five years to get through college.

Most of the country's parents look at this as a sort of slacker ritual--

the obligatory year of mosh pitting, coffee drinking and Kerouac reading

before graduation. (p. 69)

Cordially,

Mike Skau

6/26/97

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:05:34 -0700

Reply-To:     Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Power of a Poet (was Death of a Poet)

MIME-Version: 1.0

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> At 10:42 PM -0700 6/25/97, Diane Carter wrote:

>

> > Godlike does not necessarily mean messiah-like.  Perhaps it is the

>power to see

> > infinity and immortality in little acts of humanness.

>

> runner911 wrote:

> and the application of power, Diane, not just the "seeing"?  The work

> applied?  what of that?  sorry to grind your beautiful idea into the

> grindstone.  put it through all my ideological wringers.  perhaps under the

> strain of our 10 ton questions, between our cuddling remarks (quote

> unquote), perhaps our poetics shall meet??

> Perhaps.  Have always loved that particular Leonard Cohen line.  But

first I want to discuss this power idea a little more.  When you say the

"work applied," are you referring to the power of the poem on the reader

that causes him to feel or act, or of the power of the poet in creating

the poem?  Both are essentially addressing the power of a thought or

idea to transform experience or transmit awareness.  Take this short poem

from Ginsberg:

 

Who

>From Great Consciousness vision Harlem 1948 buildings standing in

Eternity

I realized entire Universe was manifestation of One Mind--

My teacher was William Blake--my life work Poesy,

transmitting that spontaneous awareness to Mankind.

 

or, are we discussing power as in this passage from Transcription of

Organ Music,

 

I want people to bow when they see me and say he is gifted with poetry,

he has seen the presence of the Creator.

And the Creator gave me a shot of his presence to gratify my wish,

so as not to cheat me of my yearning for him.

 

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:10:55 -0700

Reply-To:     "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>

Subject:      Re: Power of a Poet (was Death of a Poet)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Diane writ:

 

><<Perhaps.  Have always loved that particular Leonard Cohen line.  But

>first I want to discuss this power idea a little more.  When you say the

>"work applied," are you referring to [[1]] the power of the poem on the

>reader

>that causes him to feel or act, or of [[2]] the power of the poet in creating

>the poem?  Both are essentially addressing the power of a thought or

idea to transform experience or transmit awareness.>>

 

Hm.  <<thinking>>  I guess I'm concerned with [[1]] the power of the

>poet via poetry upon the reader and the resulting actions.

 

><<  Take this short poem

>from Ginsberg:>>  -- Good!  an actual example to wring ourselves over!!

>

>> Who

>> From Great Consciousness vision Harlem 1948 buildings standing in

>> Eternity

>> I realized entire Universe was manifestation of One Mind--

>> My teacher was William Blake--my life work Poesy,

>> transmitting that spontaneous awareness to Mankind.

 

one mind --> Great Consciousness ---> Harlem 1948 buildings --->

Eternity  ---> realization of manifestation ---->  ah, attribution  (of

Blake)  ----> recognition (of life's work, Poesy) -----> purpose

(transmitting spont awareness) ----> reception (by us, reading the poem)

 

Is this his train of thought?  seeing the building and realizing it's

potential context, he attributes a social consciousness to his

reminiscences of Blake and his life's work of poetry.  Sees himself as

the receptor, as the channel to transmit the past into the present.

He's a high priest, then?  speaking for god to all mankind?

 

Well, my shackles go up when ever I see such generalizations (Universe,

Mankind, Eternity).  <<hm, thinking>  But what is he looking at?  He's

looking at a 1948 building in Harlem.  Don't know my history very well,

but can we assume it wasn't a pretty site?  Can we also assume this was

a Ghetto of some kind?  That he is saying such "social problems" have

continued throughout the centuries?  Well, why not just come out and say

so?!  Instead he makes himself a savior of sorts, sent out to save and

redeem [perhaps?].  Our 1980s/1990s critical thought classes ask us to

recognize our audience, to pick apart our motives.  I don't want to say

he was assuming the "white man's burden" because I don't know if this is

applicable or not.

 

But assuming he was declaring a burden to be fulfilled, let's now ask

what POWER he levied towards this issue.  How was it received?  What was

the "conversation" between him and this "great consciousness"?  That's

what I want to know.  Or is it enough to cite the train of thought and

the parameters for discourse?  [probably]

 

If one form of artistic power must be "acceptable" and another one not,

then yes, I would prefer god to speak and have us all hash out the

details amongst ourselves.  Let us dissent, argue, behave in

chickenheaded ways.  This form of power has the power to unite, to

embody, and sustain - rather than condescend, betray, and manipulate.

[at least I think that's what I mean... :-)]

 

><<or, are we discussing power as in this passage from Transcription of

>Organ Music,

>

>I want people to bow when they see me and say he is gifted with poetry,

>he has seen the presence of the Creator.

>And the Creator gave me a shot of his presence to gratify my wish,

>so as not to cheat me of my yearning for him.>>

 

Well, it's a strange thing to be seen with as an image that coincides

with a yearning.  It's a "complete" feeling.  chest pumped out, eyes

level, and perhaps even a few moments of satisfaction.  This I have no

problem with.  And if I think multi-culturally and use "bow when they

see me" as a sign of respect, then ok.  BUT any other coercion, any

other arrogant remarks will get extreme vibes from me.  So yes, this

second example is what I'm concerned about when I hear god associated

with poetry and the act of creation.  And all Ginsberg is asking for is

recognition [not fame, fortune, record company deals, etc].  This I can

live with.  Would you characterize him as a "humble" man?  And for what

I know, I admire his support for other writers, poets, etc.  That is

power at its best.  Yes?

 

PEOPLE HAVE THE POWER or POWER TO THE PEOPLE

 

>> DC

 

thanx for tracking down and typing these examples!!!  cheers, Douglas

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:03:55 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: first thought and revision

 

"Things rank and gross in nature possess it merely." Shakespeare

"There's a weed growing in the garden." Ferp an old rounder friend of Betty

and Frank's to signify there might be heat around.

"Say Heav'nly Muse, shall not thy sacred vein/Afford a Present to the Infant

God?" Milton

Charles Plymell

 



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