=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 17:27:41 -0400
Reply-To: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: Re: is it art?
Comments:
To: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
In-Reply-To:
<970628171021_203057940@emout18.mail.aol.com>
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thanks
for posting this strange unrelated? post the reading of that list
was
MiNDblowinG...
for
some one who just reliezed that you can get lost on a computer like
someone
walking on the street in life--and not just in virtuospace
either,
i mean just on my frames windows in this computer as i wus tryin
to get
to where i log in like a journey failer quest like real? life
(and
thus al so with a mind separate from the reality controling the
movement
of the show) and thru the dark woodsy forest i came to te land
of the
Beat-list. wow i originally typed it as Berat-l.
heeeeheeeehheeeeehhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeehhheeehhhhhheeee.
now for
your viewing pleasure or deleting pleasure:
a
newborn poem, birth in process...
Im not
going to be smoking no more
cause i always think people misterpret me
which
they do
which i misinterpret
for a
different misinterpretation
misinterpretations of reality
!?
are you
getting this??
not so easy to write
about
as can you think?
oh
where did those moons go...oh where did these lil'
brains
expire
i my
head
in my
missing mind
goofin
sorry,
Eric
rhs4@crystal.palace.net
On Sat,
28 Jun
1997, Maya Gorton wrote:
>
this is a quote from that website i told you about. I think this person's
>
site is brilliant. i think it's
art. you have no idea what to do and it
>
forces you to do something you never thought of doing. And then it keeps
>
working by these inane rules. CLICK ON
THE BRAIN that's all i'm gonna say.
> There are pages and paages of really cool
text and web-craziness, but you
>
gotta work for it. here's a pretty tame
quote, anyway. again, go to:
>
>
http://www-rci.rutgers.edu/~maldoror/links.html
>
>
for more. and remember to click on the brain, and click all over after that.
> I
think that he's talking about himself and his website here.
>
>
"Benjamin's notes for the Passagen-werk are
>
fragments of citations in which the great majority
> of
the project's themes are stated in abbreviated
>
fashion. Arcades (reconstructed), art-couture
>
fashion, hypersensitive boredom, dream-kitsch,
>
emotive souvenirs, mannequins, black neon lights,
>
VR-headsets, mimetic polyalloy architecture,
> stop-frame
animation, holographic prostitution,
>
millennial flaneurs, book arts collectors, data
>
counterfeiting, Montemartre alleyways, museum
>
casings, department store tele-displays, metros,
>
email postcards, sidewalk graffiti, reflections from
>
computer terminals, catacombs, interior industrial
>
design, MTV channels, ethernet connections,
>
neo-Gaudian urban planning, Baudelaire's opium
>
shock-urbanism. Central methodological concepts
>
are also present in the notes: dream image,
>
phantasmagoria, dreaming collective, ur-history,
>
now-of-recognition, dialectical image."
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 17:31:21 -0400
Reply-To: "Robert H. Sapp" <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: Re: no such thing
Comments:
To: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
In-Reply-To: <970628171316_1621886613@emout05.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
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you
cant probly see it in this poat but the subject heading" no such
thing"
and did the messages "no such thing" lined up on my screen...
which
means absoluteluy nothing by itself (for what are sreen lines and
rows
anyhow)
But
maybe there IS such a think as a poet? like God?
from,
Eric
rhs4@crystal.palace.net
On Sat,
28 Jun 1997, Maya Gorton wrote:
>
there is no such thing as a poet.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 18:33:58 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: God is neither true nor false
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I saw
in a post where it is said that God and science have been proven
false. I think our ideas of both may be proven
false, but you can not
prove
either of them to be false, except through science or faith.
It is
all in the way you look at it.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 17:48:13 +0000
Reply-To: "neudorf@discovland.net"
<neudorf@DISCOVLAND.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "neudorf@discovland.net"
<neudorf@DISCOVLAND.NET>
Subject: Beat core
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J.
Stauffer wrote:
>
Does anyone have any suggestions for reading projects that might help
>
restore some minimal level of Beat focus to the list before it
>
completely evaporates into the dissapearing ozone layer with more and
>
more Kozmic Kuestions like Poesey and Godliness?
Just
finished reading Kerouac's 'Mexico City Blues'. It gets stronger as
you
read it. I have come to the conclusion that his Blues choruses must
be read
drunk, or with at least a buzz, the rhythms jump out easier. It
is also
closer to his state while writing them.
Anybody
read Bob Kaufman? he's a real character.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 23:01:33 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Notice to all beetles: June 27th
1997
In a
message dated 97-06-28 01:48:31 EDT, you write:
<<
But I refuse to have my mind dictated to by anyone. >>
How
about dictating to you.
C.
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 23:08:07 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Role of the Poet
<<craps>>
Yes, I
was the Wesley Medical print shop while I was working my way through
college
in 50s. I printed couple of mags and chapbooks.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 23:19:34 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Summer Reading Project
S. Clay
just sent me a Poetry Flash with an interview of Allen Ginsberg by
Jack
Foley. It seems like the same interview over and over. I hadn't seen the
Poetry
Flash since it was a little rag in SF. Now it looks like a full-funded
governmental
morality speak Orwellian new age poetry and completely boring
official
word control thought police subsidized new-age time warp. I love SF,
but I
would hate to live in its literary environment especially among all
those
SF poetry munchkins whose thought waves never go beyond the city
lights.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 20:29:57 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Summer Reading Update
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Deer
Beetles.
Some
wonderful suggestions have started to pour into my the Summer
Reading
Project World Head Quarters here by the dock of the Bay.
A Brief
Synopsis of Todays Respondents
Dave
Breithaupt offers
Jack K.--Desolation Angels and Big Sur
(easy to vote for this one, for
me)
WSB--Lunch or Place of Dead Roads
Di Prima--Memoirs of a Beat Chick (is
that right)
Hettie Jones, How I became HJ
Marie
Countryman weighed in for focusing on anniverseries and the
HST letters and suggested
"The Hells Angels" by HST
(which J Stauffer feels should be
paired with Freewheeling Franks book
told to M. McClure
Mr
Neurdorff mentioned Jack's "Mex City Blues" and Bob Kaufmann(Cranial
Guitar
would make a good starting point here.)
Maya,
seemingly concerned with ease of access suggests something from
The Beat Reader which she thinks
everyone has (I don't, but could)
Race is
undecided and wanting to check out his local library, good idea,
and the women's basketball league.
William
Rose sent a longer list.
Nicocia's Memory Babe
"Spontaneous Poetics
Holy Goof
Jack's Scattered poems.
Johnson's Minor Characters.
Diane
voted for Sax vs Mocassins. Someone
else wondered why this choice
of a
coupling. It arose earlier on the list
in a proposed debate
between
Mr. Plymell and Mr. Anastee in connection with a strong
quotation
from a reviewer on the comparative worth of the two b ooks.
Mr.
Plymell wrote a nice analysis of the two, a very nice piece on Sax
that is
worth looking up. Mr. Anastee as far as
I know has not had his
round.
/And seems to be silent on the list.
I am
easy, most of these sound good to me, with the caveat that I would
like to
at least see discussion center on the primary works rather than
scholarship
or biography which is useful as an adjunct to discussing
the works themselves.
Let's
see if any of these pick up steam. I
love especially the idea of
getting
a number of us reading and rereading a Big Sur or Mexico City
Blues,
or a WSB or the HST Angels book.
Maybe
nobody reads the way I do. I hope
not. I currently am messing
around
in the following.
Dr. Sax
Little Men--by Kevin Killian who used
to make very helpful
appearances on the list and
has a book on Jack
Spicer coming out soon. Kevin
did a really fun play
about the painter Jay DeFeo at
the SF Art Institute
last fall.
The Lost Coast--by Steven
Nightngale--warmed over Nicholls so
far
Forever Wider--Charles Plymell.
Firewalk through Madness and Beyond
the Haldol Haze by David
Rhaesa
The Blood Countess by Robert Peters
Cranial Guitar--Bob Kaufmann.
I
noodle around with pieces of prose until one grabs me by the neck and
I
finish it in a rush. Poetry I almost
always read in bits and pieces.
I would
love to know what other people are reading, and get at least
thumbnail
reviews. This itself would make a good
thread.
When we
did Wichita Vortex it never really took off for long. Bill
Gargan
wrote a very nice thing on it, but it seemed to get everyone
focused
on the work we were doing, and that itself is a good thing.
Let's
see where the energy goes. I will gladly join any of my friends in
a good
reading project.
James
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 03:30:45 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Notice to all beetles: June 27th
1997
I
wrote:
<<
But I refuse to have my mind dictated to by anyone. >>
You
wrote:
<<How
about dictating to you.>>
C.
Plymell
I'm not
sure, but do I detect a note of sarcasm here?
<G>
My mind
does dictate to me, which is probably why it so dislikes others making
such
attempts on it. It is also responsible
for telling me when acts and
ideas
don't correlate. If there is one GREAT
thing the Beats did for us (and
certainly
there more than one), it was to give us back our minds,thoughts,
hearts
- to wake us up from our sheep-like stupor...
to pull us out of the
enervation
with which society continues to seek to control the masses... made
us see
that the rules were made by fallable men whose only interests were to
maintain
their positions of power and wealth...
Is it not then antithetical
to
impose rules on discussion? Were it not
for the endless discussions
between
WSB, Jack, Allen & Neal, et al, on topics of all sorts, I fear that
"Beat"
literature/mindset would never have developed to the point of
publication.
Therefore,
I suggest that, while we are all on this list due to a particular
attraction
to this lifestyle/psyche/literature (however one chooses to define
it),
the right to discuss that which is foremost on one's mind, so long as it
is not
truly offensive to anyone, is paramount to the entire notion of this
discussion
group.
Ok,
enough of my moralizing... just had to get that off my chest. Really, I'm
not a
boring hack... and I promise to drop the subject, unless someone brings
it up
to me again... <grins>
Bon
soir,
Sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 05:37:27 +0200
Reply-To: Ksenija Simic <ksenija@GALOIS.MI.SANU.AC.YU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ksenija Simic
<ksenija@GALOIS.MI.SANU.AC.YU>
Subject: god is neither true nor false - comment
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isn't
God something that by definition isn't proved, but felt and believed
in?
ksenija
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 05:42:20 +0200
Reply-To: Ksenija Simic
<ksenija@GALOIS.MI.SANU.AC.YU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ksenija Simic
<ksenija@GALOIS.MI.SANU.AC.YU>
Subject: gregory corso?
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today i
read a sentence by gregory corso which completely fascinated me. it
was in
serbian (my language), though, so i will roghly translate and i would
appreciate
it if somebody could tell me the original text. it goes something
like
this: it is not the same to die of a cobra bite and of spoiled pork (?)
ksenija
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 03:37:00 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Summer Reading Project
Wow..
have you been living in San Francisco recently?? I don't find the
envirnment
any more stifling than what I perceive to be going on elsewhere.
Yes
there is always chaff and sell-out in the literary world as well as in
every
other art medium, but I hardly think that SF need be indicted any more
than
NY, Chicago or any other city. SF's
rather free environment still
promotes
some very interesting and original expression... And despite the New
Age
pablum, much that is quite viable goes on here.
Ciao,
Sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 20:46:48 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Notice to all beetles: June 27th
1997
MIME-Version:
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Sherri
wrote:
If there is one GREAT thing the Beats did for
us (and
>
certainly there more than one), it was to give us back our minds,thoughts,
>
hearts - to wake us up from our sheep-like stupor...
I don't
remember ever being in this stupor.
Would you even really want
to talk
to someone who was so out of it that it reading Burroughs,
Kerouac,
Ginsberg or Cassidy to realize there was a world out there?
The
experience of reading this stuff was to realize that there were more
than
you thought of your own kind out there.
J.
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 03:39:52 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: god is neither true nor false -
comment
isn't
God something that by definition isn't proved, but felt and believed
in?
ksenija
Ksenija... couldn't agree with you more!
Ciao,
Sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 00:05:01 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: god is neither true nor false -
comment
Comments:
To: Ksenija Simic <ksenija@GALOIS.MI.SANU.AC.YU>
MIME-Version:
1.0
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Ksenija
Simic wrote:
>
>
isn't God something that by definition isn't proved, but felt and believed
>
in?
>
>
ksenija
It
depends on how you look at it. I would
say that either you "know" or
you
don't. What God is not is a
crutch. She is the small still voice.
The
male = father, the female = spirit, the children = us. It's an old
myth
that is true, whether it happened or not.
If you feel it, you will
hear
the spirit rush, you will feel the living waters, and Bob Dylan
said if
there is a God it is the River, because it is the only thing
that is
in the mountains, going around the bend and at the ocean all at
the
same time. And well, I believe, I feel,
but I can not prove truth.
Ask
Pilate, maybe he would like a second chance.
My kingdom is not of
this
mail list! Feed the hungry, heal the
sick, visit those who are in
jail.
As
Steppenwolf/John Kay once said, "We've got to go from here to there,
eventually."
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 21:22:59 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: EXPLODING BEAT READING LIST AND MAO
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s.a.
griffin's idea of a Beat List Reading List and mine of a Beat List
Literary
Map. Writers listed under locale. Writer can appear in more
than
one place, but must have important tie to area, not just passing
through. I'll start with a very sketchy West Coast
portrait. The list
should
EXPLODE. feel free to add, delete,
move, etc. Needs to have
favorite
titles added somewhere
PORTLAND
Snyder,
Gary
Welsh,
Lew
Whalen,
Phil
SAN
FRANCISCO
Duncan,
Robert
Spicer,
Jack
Rexroth,
Kenneth
Watts,
Alan
Lamantia,
Phillip
Kaufman,
Bob
McClure,
Michael
Snyder,
Gary
Welsh,
Lew
Whalen,
Phil
Plymell,
Charles
Reynolds,
Frank
Kyger,
Joanne
Kandel,
Lenore
Micheline,
Jack
LOS
ANGELES
Lipton,
Lawrence
Bukowski,
Charles
Peters,
Robert
griffin,
s.a.
Selby,
Herbert
Morrison,
Jim
Huxley,
Aldous
Kesey,
Ken
SAN
DIEGO
Gerlach,
Fred
and on
and on
James
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 00:50:35 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: god is neither true nor false -
comment LONG
Comments:
To: Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>
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1.0
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Sherri
wrote:
>
>
Beautifully said, Bentz.
>
>
God is the one thread that runs through everything... and is everything and
>
nothing, simultaneously. How can that
be proved or disproved? The evidence
>
seems overwhelmingly in favor of this Spirit's existence... from Jung to
>
Stephen Hawking we have the constant acknowledgment that there is
"life" which
>
goes beyond that which science define.
>
>
Ciao,
>
Sherri
Thank
you. I live for the joy of knowing
ONENESS and call it God, but I
do not
know the name, only what rings true. I
know that God does not
boycott
Disney World or appear on the 700 Club. And think about it, if
he did,
Pat Robertson would probably have him arrested and taken off the
set. Hey, if God parks in the First Baptist
Church parking lot in
Columbia,
SC, to work out at the Y, they tow his car, why, because he is
not a
member.
The Day
God Got Towed
Sherri
wrote:
>
>
Beautifully said, Bentz.
>
> God
is the one thread that runs through everything... and is everything and
>
nothing, simultaneously. How can that
be proved or disproved? The evidence
>
seems overwhelmingly in favor of this Spirit's existence... from Jung to
>
Stephen Hawking we have the constant acknowledgment that there is
"life" which
>
goes beyond that which science define.
>
>
Ciao,
>
Sherri
God was
going to work out at the y.
He saw
a big parking lot with 5 cars in it.
So, he
pulled his Explorer in and parked.
(He used
to have a Surbuban, but he changes brands every year.)
He was
meeting Zeus for a handball game and was late.
He
missed the sign that said, "This parking lot
is the
property of First Baptist Church.
Non-member cars
will be
towed away at the owner's expense."
He
wondered why more people did not park there.
He
noticed the Church was LOCKED up tight.
Zeus
parked two blocks away, he read the sign.
Besides,
Thor had been towed a week before.
And
Zeus hated getting stuck with that bill.
(That
was why Zeus suggested that he and God play
for
$35.00 tonight.)
Anyway,
God, scanned his Y card and the woman
Behind
the desk noticed his membership had expired.
He
wrote a check, but did not rejoin the health club.
Didn't
have time for the massages or the steam bath.
Besides,
he didn't feel right about the fact that
Miriam
could not use the health club.
Lucky
for God, Zeus was off his game and God won
the
$35.00 bet.
Cause
when he went out side, his car was towed away.
Zeus
laughed his ass off.
God thought
to himself, "I have to remember to
give
Hera a call and tell her about that new girl
Zeus
has been seeing."
Anyway,
it cost God $35.00 to get his car back.
Years
later, he told the First Baptist Church,
"Depart
from me, I never knew you."
"And
oh yeah, Peter, get $35.00 from them before they
hit the
exit."
Zeus
got in trouble again with Hera.
And
Thor didn't get towed again,
But the
City cops put a boot
On his
Firebird because he didn't pay his
Parking
tickets. Zeus met the meter maid.
Then
every thing was cool again.
Zeus
never did win a handball game though.
Oh
well, just a thought. Not a Homer.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 00:56:38 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: god is neither true nor false-
corrective post
Comments:
To: Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>
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Sorry I
botched the other post with the double quote.
Here is the work
of art
by itself. Delete it if you need it, or
keep it if you dare.
And
it's just the day God got towed.
>
>
The Day God Got Towed
>
>
God was going to work out at the y.
> He
saw a big parking lot with 5 cars in it.
>
So, he pulled his Explorer in and parked.
>
(He used to have a Surbuban, but he changes brands every year.)
> He
was meeting Zeus for a handball game and was late.
> He
missed the sign that said, "This parking lot
> is
the property of First Baptist Church.
Non-member cars
>
will be towed away at the owner's expense."
> He
wondered why more people did not park there.
> He
noticed the Church was LOCKED up tight.
>
Zeus parked two blocks away, he read the sign.
>
Besides, Thor had been towed a week before.
>
And Zeus hated getting stuck with that bill.
>
(That was why Zeus suggested that he and God play
>
for $35.00 tonight.)
>
Anyway, God, scanned his Y card and the woman
>
Behind the desk noticed his membership had expired.
> He
wrote a check, but did not rejoin the health club.
>
Didn't have time for the massages or the steam bath.
>
Besides, he didn't feel right about the fact that
>
Miriam could not use the health club.
>
Lucky for God, Zeus was off his game and God won
> the
$35.00 bet.
>
Cause when he went out side, his car was towed away.
>
Zeus laughed his ass off.
>
God thought to himself, "I have to remember to
>
give Hera a call and tell her about that new girl
>
Zeus has been seeing."
>
Anyway, it cost God $35.00 to get his car back.
>
Years later, he told the First Baptist Church,
>
"Depart from me, I never knew you."
>
"And oh yeah, Peter, get $35.00 from them before they
>
hit the exit."
>
Zeus got in trouble again with Hera.
>
And Thor didn't get towed again,
>
But the City cops put a boot
> On
his Firebird because he didn't pay his
>
Parking tickets. Zeus met the meter
maid.
>
Then every thing was cool again.
>
>
Zeus never did win a handball game though.
>
> Oh
well, just a thought. Not a Homer.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 01:05:12 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: PS
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I know
that Zeus and Thor don't on the surface go together. But, I just
happen
to really like the old Thor comic books by Marvel, so I used Thor
instead
of a Greek diety. Besides, I just lump
Jehovah on one side and
all the
others on the other.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 00:21:54 -0600
Reply-To: stand666@bitstream.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: R&R Houff
<stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>
Subject: The Charles Plymell Hwy & God
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Hello
Charles,
I've
been on the road doing a few blues gigs and tied up with my old
friend
Luther Allison and ended-up writing an interview for him and
Alligator
Records. It'll come out before July 11 (he'll be playing
here on
that date). Pulse magazine interviewed me and I mentioned you
and AG.
I'm not sure if I'll be censored or not so I'll mail you the
original
before they fuck it up. Maybe the BEAT-L would like to see it.
Roxanne's
been taking care of the e-mail and caught your description of
peyote
tasting like bile out of the devil's asshole-man
we both
agreed on that one. I ate 6 buttons once and thought I seen
god and
when I looked again it was the neighbor kid doing it dog style
with
his cousin Mary. From that day forth, I accepted his cousin Mary
as my
personal savior.
Richard
Houff
Pariah
Press
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 01:23:51 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: The Charles Plymell Hwy & God
Comments:
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R&R
Houff wrote:
>
>
Hello Charles,
>
>
I've been on the road doing a few blues gigs and tied up with my old
>
friend Luther Allison and ended-up writing an interview for him and
>
Alligator Records. It'll come out before July 11 (he'll be playing
>
here on that date). Pulse magazine interviewed me and I mentioned you
>
and AG. I'm not sure if I'll be censored or not so I'll mail you the
>
original before they fuck it up. Maybe the BEAT-L would like to see it.
>
Roxanne's been taking care of the e-mail and caught your description of
>
peyote tasting like bile out of the devil's asshole-man
> we
both agreed on that one. I ate 6 buttons once and thought I seen
>
god and when I looked again it was the neighbor kid doing it dog style
>
with his cousin Mary. From that day forth, I accepted his cousin Mary
> as
my personal savior.
>
>
Richard Houff
>
Pariah Press
Richard:
Once, I
looked out the window of my bedroom. I
think I was 17 at the
time. I saw God, he was coming to earth, and he
was PISSED at all of
us. If you see him again, or even Mary, would
you ask him if there is
something
we can do to help him chill. I really
don't want to see him
again
right now. I am busy and seeing God
tends to disrupt one's life.
I know
you and Charles know what I mean. I
mean we have to see him at
the
gate when we check out, so, I figure, let's just get prepared or
something. In the meantime, I would like to read the
interview before
it gets
edited. Thanks. It'll give me something to do and take my
mind
off
life in general. Keep on keeping
on. But you really ought to
change
your handle to stand777. You know 666
is an encryption for the
Roman
Emporers that did a lot of evil things and it might be bad karma
to use
that, but then again, it might help you out in the long run.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 01:12:45 +0000
Reply-To: "neudorf@discovland.net"
<neudorf@DISCOVLAND.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "neudorf@discovland.net"
<neudorf@DISCOVLAND.NET>
Subject: GO
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James
Stauffer wrote:
>
Let's see where the energy goes. I will gladly join any of my friends > in a
good reading project.
Sounds
good.
Finished
reading John Clellon Holmes' "GO". Not very impressive. The
history
behind the book, its main characters, and publication make it a
good
book for nostalgic reasons. Published in 1952, 4 yrs before
Ginsberg,
5 yrs before Kerouac's pop success. The characters included
Ginsberg,
Kerouac, Neal & one of his wives, Huncke (found on street by
Ginsberg
in shit state after much heroin), Holmes & wife, and many more
i could
not identify. It is written with 3rd person narration with
himself
as one of the characters, but i found the narration a little too
personal,
too rapt up in action, not enough separation. There is an
interesting
description of one of Ginsberg's Blakeian visions.
Joseph
Neudorfer
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 23:13:55 -0700
Reply-To: runner911 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner911
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: SPAIR OWS! <<ca
ca>>
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the
spare (us)
[[birds
running wildly]]
let it
be, the space between us
- beatle (george harrison)
-----------------------
don't have fear
this space between us
spare us
someting in conflict with
-th-e-ou-ter-rea-ache=s, ow!~
the outer reaches
(an
anthropologists report ::
deep from the heart of mother africa)
cheers,
Douglas
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 01:23:25 +0000
Reply-To: "neudorf@discovland.net"
<neudorf@DISCOVLAND.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "neudorf@discovland.net"
<neudorf@DISCOVLAND.NET>
Subject: S.F. & Montreal
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I went
down to San Francisco for first time in December 1996, visited
what
must be visited, even performed at a couple of shows, and
thoroughly
enjoyed the pastel hills. If there was an American city to
live
in, it would be S.F. I'm from the other side of the continent:
Montreal
- just came back from Jazz Fest. Montreal is up there in places
to live
. . . at least in the summer (i think it is the city with the
most #
of festivals in the world . . . grooving to free outdoor show
while
far in background fireworks blast off from other festival . . .)
Joseph
Neudorfer
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 23:25:45 -0700
Reply-To: runner911 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner911
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: Notice to all beetles: June 27th
1997
In-Reply-To: <UPMAIL14.199706290538490255@msn.com>
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because
the sky is blue, that's why. Am
listening to this Beatle fest a
local
radio station is having. what fun. grew up on these folx. John,
George,
Paul, and Ringo wrote some rockin' beat poetry. "Dr. Roberts your
a new
bred of man!"
and I
always feel like I'm running
never
satisfied to settle
neither
in court nor in person
too
often by email
and
golden moments stolen from videos
starring
angelic looking robber children
something
has been taken from me
and I
wont rest until I do
find
that I must find
gotta keep
running
Where
is everyone?
then is
phenomenal
oh, how
I'm feeling?
<<breathing,
breathing>>
and
mary jane doesn't hurt that much
not
that much, a few pains here and there
like my
chest heaving against my pillows
late
night movies on neighbors televisions
cars
continuing to shuffle on the nearby highway
and the
effervescent fridge, how that mean mother haunts me
continually,
continually, the headless horseman
riding
to find me, oh, running
oh, I
must be still, not act
no
breathing, oh, I must be dreaming
is that
so? Is that so? I say, can I have a witness?
<<horns
blowing>>
enjoying
my dinner, Douglas
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ summer
save
it, just keep it off my wave
is
-- ("my wave," soundgarden) here
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 23:35:51 -0700
Reply-To: runner911 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner911
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: PS
In-Reply-To: <33B5ED08.E9BA234@scsn.net>
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At
10:05 PM -0700 6/28/97, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
> I
know that Zeus and Thor don't on the surface go together. But, I just
>
happen to really like the old Thor comic books by Marvel, so I used Thor
>
instead of a Greek diety. Besides, I
just lump Jehovah on one side and
>
all the others on the other.
yes,
and I bet michael jordan could whup them all!
<<ha>> Will he ever
stop
his climb and enjoy the view from his perch?
"No, I'm just resting,"
he says
<<gatorade commercial>>. Is
he climbing Mt. Olympus?
the
game within the game. inspiration. his source.
<<....don't
on the surface go together>>
:: god has a surface???
really???? CAN YOU SEE IT???
I'm
just seeing stars over here... where do you live?
cheers,
Douglas
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ summer
save
it, just keep it off my wave
is
-- ("my wave," soundgarden) here
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 23:42:02 -0700
Reply-To: runner911 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner911
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: scholars of breathing
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ok word
fiends, beat literates, cut throad pirates::
does
<<laughing>> = <<breathing>>
or is
laughing something else, entirely? I
guess there's an exhale
involved,
but what do you call the sound it makes?
breathing always seems
to have
a flow to it. a calm feeling. laughing doesn't. but you breath a
lot
when your laughing, so the two must be connected. some secret passway,
like
the ones janitors have between the ladies and the gents. <<laugh>>
Douglas <<beating the god metaphor as hard as
he's got>>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 00:01:26 -0700
Reply-To: runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner711
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: PS
In-Reply-To: <33B5ED08.E9BA234@scsn.net>
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At
10:05 PM -0700 6/28/97, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
> I
know that Zeus and Thor don't on the surface go together.
sorry,
but I just had this crazy thought: god
and zues are going together?
What,
are they spending time in the closet together?
exchanging pleasant
nothings? I mean, when did they start seeing each other? Does Jehovah
know? <<this is a tragedy!!>> Call a doctor! I think god must be a
woman!!??
<<%
100
percent
proof>>
Douglas <<getting off now>>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 02:04:44 -0700
Reply-To: runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner711
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: ginsberg link
Comments:
cc: vpaul@gwdi.com
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when upon ginsberg's passing. what brought me to this list.
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/fahrkle/collages/Various/Howl.html
Douglas
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ summer
save
it, just keep it off my wave
is
-- ("my wave," soundgarden) here
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 08:24:12 -0400
Reply-To: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Summer Reading Update
In-Reply-To: <33B5D6B5.540F@pacbell.net>
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just
finished fear and loathing in los vegas, forgot how wonderfully
raunchy
it all gets. am hopping on back of harley to join HST as he blasts
off
with hells angels-and then onto the fear&loathing letters vol. 1
i could
also be talked into doing the two kerouac novels as well.
other
than that, i've been reading small press and chapbooks of friends
works,
not readily available anywhere i dont think
my
ability to read has been waxing and waning (cursed) so lately i've been
writing.
but must haul head up out of own navel and discuss something
outside
myself with others.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 00:53:48 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Notice to all beetles: June 27th
1997
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James
Stauffer wrote:
>
>
> I
don't remember ever being in this stupor.
Would you even really want
> to
talk to someone who was so out of it that it reading Burroughs,
>
Kerouac, Ginsberg or Cassidy to realize there was a world out there?
>
The experience of reading this stuff was to realize that there were
>more
>
than you thought of your own kind out there.
>
Absolutely,
my line of thought exactly. When I
first read Ginsberg, for
the
first time in my life, I knew that there was someone else out there
who
thought like I did and was actually writing about it. That, of
course,
led to reading more beat lit, and realizing that there were lots
of
other voices speaking the same thoughts as my voice. That is why this
list is
so great, because beyond what ever disagreements develop or
where
ever the the discussion takes us, we all know that deep down we are
connected my a common river of thought, many little streams that all
way in
some way are touching the same river.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 00:58:54 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Notice to all beetles: June 27th
1997
MIME-Version:
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runner911
wrote:
>
>
and I always feel like I'm running
>
never satisfied to settle
>
neither in court nor in person
>
>
too often by email
>
and golden moments stolen from videos
>
starring angelic looking robber children
>
>
something has been taken from me
>
and I wont rest until I do
>
find that I must find
>
gotta keep running
>
>
Where is everyone?
>
then is phenomenal
>
oh, how I'm feeling?
>
<<breathing, breathing>>
>
>
and mary jane doesn't hurt that much
>
not that much, a few pains here and there
>
like my chest heaving against my pillows
>
late night movies on neighbors televisions
>
cars continuing to shuffle on the nearby highway
>
and the effervescent fridge, how that mean mother haunts me
>
continually, continually, the headless horseman
>
>
riding to find me, oh, running
>
oh, I must be still, not act
> no
breathing, oh, I must be dreaming
>
> is
that so? Is that so? I say, can I have a witness?
>
<<horns blowing>>
>
>
enjoying my dinner, Douglas
> enjoying your thoughts, Douglas. Clarifies the runner911 sig a lot.
we are all running, breathing, dreaming,
living, I hope.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 10:16:53 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Summer Reading Update
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Marie,
I have
fairly foggy memories of the Hells Angels book, mostly the
account
of the Kesey party. As I mentioned you
might look at
"Freewheeling
Frank", by Frank Reynolds (as told to Michael McClure.)
Grove,
1967, have no idea how available it is.
Frank was one of Angels
who was
most involved in the era in which the Angels were a part of the
SF hip
scene. It's a fun read, less
intentionally sensational than
HST's
book as I remember it. Joanna McClure
has a nice little poem
about
Frank.
James
Stauffer
Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
>
just finished fear and loathing in los vegas, forgot how wonderfully
>
raunchy it all gets. am hopping on back of harley to join HST as he blasts
>
off with hells angels-and then onto the fear&loathing letters vol. 1
> i
could also be talked into doing the two kerouac novels as well.
>
other than that, i've been reading small press and chapbooks of friends
>
works, not readily available anywhere i dont think
> my
ability to read has been waxing and waning (cursed) so lately i've been
>
writing. but must haul head up out of own navel and discuss something
>
outside myself with others.
> mc
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 14:52:51 -0400
Reply-To: Marioka7@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: reminder
> I
am seeking collaborators for a 'Zine' project.
It will consist of the
>
following:
>
>
---poetry, poetic prose
>
---social ciriticism
>
---sociology of art and literature
>
---music and book and film reviews
>
---artwork (photos, drawings, paintings, ideas)
>
>
The end product will be printed on actual paper (remember that stuff?) in
>
black and white with color pages and real binding (not staples!!). I would
>
like to work on it this summer and print it in September, as I am leaving
>
country indefinitely in October.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 12:02:25 -0700
Reply-To: runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: Notice to all beetles: June 27th
1997
In-Reply-To: <33B615BE.2AA5@together.net>
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At
12:58 AM -0700 6/29/97, Diane Carter wrote:
>
> Where is everyone?
>
> then is phenomenal
>
> enjoying your thoughts,
Douglas. Clarifies the runner911 sig a
lot.
> we are all running, breathing, dreaming,
living, I hope.
Well, I
hope you liked my typo, too!
<<laugh>>
the
line should have read:
>
> Where is everyone?
>
> *this* is phenomenal
but the
mistake made me think of someone Shapiro, an art history theorist,
who
said "let us not ask 'what is art', but '*when* is art!' " (or
something
like that).
And
what does your .sig "Diane Carter" mean? I'll track down one of those
anagram
links and then we'll really see what you're made of. And following
my
train of thought, <<bringing this back to the beats>>, what of all
the
pseudonames
used by Ginsberg and Kerouac in their literature? Anybody have
a list
of em handy? their inspiration?
<<oh,
he almost cried, when they asked if he knew his name...
-- david bowie (Ziggy Stardust)>>
cheers,
Douglas
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 14:05:41 -0600
Reply-To: stand666@bitstream.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: R&R Houff
<stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>
Subject: JAMES/FRISCO/& BENTZ
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Hello
James,
If you
catch Luther in Frisco you won't be disappointed-he'll be
playing
a 1960 Les Paul (reissue). He tore up the 1995 Chicago Blues
Fest
with that same guitar. I don't think you'll find him at City
Lights-but
I'm willing to bet on the wharf-he loves his fish! Hey Bentz,
that's
a pretty wild handle I carry. My kids thought it would
be good
CYBERMOJO-it's good to be back and breathing.
Richard
Houff
Pariah
Press
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 15:04:39 -0400
Reply-To: Marioka7@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: spare us
I DONT
WANNA HEAR ABOUT GOD ANYMORE
the
bastard gets far more attention than he deserves.
And as
someone already suggested, what are we, college freshmen? Staying up
late in
the dorm hallway, thinking we're SO DEEP and the fate of the world
rests
with us? Jeesus Christ. I am coming to the conclusion that there are
some
things that should be thought but not articulated.
This
may be one of them.
---maya <<sighing>>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 16:17:13 -0000
Reply-To: "Bruce W. Hartman, Jr."
<bwhartmanjr@INAME.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Bruce W. Hartman, Jr." <bwhartmanjr@INAME.COM>
Subject: Re: spare us
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Beat
Friends & Philosophers:
What's the problem, Maya? How can he be such a bastard if he really
exists? The problem, as I see it, is simple: too many people claim to
have
the goods on him, yet no one lives like they do. . .
A few posts ago, someone (forgive me,
my itchy delete finger got the best
of me)
said our buddy Nietzche proved him dead a long time ago, well, I did
read
the book, and Nietzche did no such proving.
All Nietzche did was make
a
declaration and then live by it. I wish
more people would do the same,
meaning,
I wish people would say something and then live up to it.
I can think of plenty of things that
get too much play, but God or the
lack of
(in whatever form he/she does/doesn't exist) should be talked about
a hell
of a lot more than it is, especially here.
Who gives a shit what does or doesn't
make a poet. We'll sit here till
the
cows come home debating that one, but God, well now, he gets too much
time on
the old Beat-L, let's not talk about him anymore. Fuck that.
Thinking
himself SO DEEP,
Bruce
... Sin
strongly.
--Martin Luther
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 22:24:51 +0200
Reply-To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Philip Lamantia(?)
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Poetry by Philip Lamantia (?)
The
real stuff.
Small
presses.
(Mostly.)
Big
thoughts.
Some
with punctuation.
some
without
All in
love with language.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 16:34:00 -0400
Reply-To: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: spare us
In-Reply-To: <199706292017.QAA25284@everest>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
yo,
homeboy!
lets
get off all this personal crap and in front of god and all, lets
talking
about some <gasp> lit-er-a- chure!!!!
(a very
broad hint from a bear of little brain)
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 22:31:10 +0200
Reply-To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: wrong
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
friends
apologies, i push the wrong button, ---Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 16:58:50 -0400
Reply-To: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: two beats in one state meet
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
hi all.
i dont want to make this into chatroom city, but did want to tell
you all
that diane carter (my editor from mad magazine and journalist in
her own
write) and i met for lunch. and diane kept her lunch down after
being
assaulted verbally by my own recordings of my recent pomes. that's
bein in
the trenches let me tell you. and a perceptive ear as well as a
comely
eye, diane.
thanks
leon,
you were right all along!
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 17:30:24 -0400
Reply-To: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: restless farewell
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Dearest
Beat-lovers,
It's
been an interesting season of happening on this here list, sad
occurances,
battles, vibes, happy thoughts, pomes, community almost.
(This
is not a literature post!)
I'm
going on the road tommorrow, gonna be spending the summer mostly on
the
Carolina beaches. I just wanted to say to everyone on this list that
i've
enjoyed the "company," to say the least this list beats the hell
outa
the evening news, and to say a little more i've learned alot hear.
To all
the aspiring and perspiring and inspiring poets of the list: keep
up the
work!
To all
the members old and new: keep the list REAL!
There
have been countless words of wisdom, intentional accidental shared
saved
deleted, here over these lonely wires, from everybody and everyone,
even
the watchful eyes of the lurkers can sumtimes be felt pounding thru
the
screen.
Glad to
have been an (in)active witness. I sall be rejoining the list in
the
fall as a collegiate. if any brain cells survive the summer, that is.
"Goodbye
momma and poppa
goodbye
jack and jill
the
grass aint greener, the wine aint sweeter
either
side of the hill" -- the dead
from,
Eric
Sapp
rhs4@crystal.palace.net
"everybody's
holy!" -- Ginsberg
"we'll
hold hands and then we'll
watch
the sun rise
from
the bottom of the sea" -- Jimi Hendrix
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 06:18:05 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: spare us
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
>
yo, homeboy!
>
lets get off all this personal crap and in front of god and all, lets
>
talking about some <gasp> lit-er-a- chure!!!!
> (a
very broad hint from a bear of little brain)
> mc
OK, I'
going to sum up my view of the god/poet debate with this poem from
Allen
Ginsberg from Cosmopolitan Greetings.
Proclamation
I am
the King of the Universe
I am
the Messiah with a new dispensation
Excuse
me I stepped on a nail.
A
mistake
Perhaps
I am not the Capitalist of Heaven
Perhaps
I'm a gate keeper snoring
beside the Pearl Columns--
No this
isn't true, I really am God himself.
Not at
all human. Don't associate me
w/that Crowd
In any
case you can believe every word
I say.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 22:46:05 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: spare us
WOO HOO
Bruce! Couldn't have put it better
myself!
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Bruce W. Hartman, Jr.
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 1997 9:17 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: spare us
Beat
Friends & Philosophers:
What's the problem, Maya? How can he be such a bastard if he really
exists? The problem, as I see it, is simple: too many people claim to
have
the goods on him, yet no one lives like they do. . .
A few posts ago, someone (forgive me,
my itchy delete finger got the
best
of me)
said our buddy Nietzche proved him dead a long time ago, well, I did
read
the book, and Nietzche did no such proving.
All Nietzche did was make
a
declaration and then live by it. I wish
more people would do the same,
meaning,
I wish people would say something and then live up to it.
I can think of plenty of things that
get too much play, but God or the
lack of
(in whatever form he/she does/doesn't exist) should be talked about
a hell
of a lot more than it is, especially here.
Who gives a shit what does or doesn't
make a poet. We'll sit here
till
the
cows come home debating that one, but God, well now, he gets too much
time on
the old Beat-L, let's not talk about him anymore. Fuck that.
Thinking
himself SO DEEP,
Bruce
... Sin
strongly.
--Martin Luther
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 19:10:47 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: spare us
Comments:
To: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
>
yo, homeboy!
>
lets get off all this personal crap and in front of god and all, lets
>
talking about some <gasp> lit-er-a- chure!!!!
> (a
very broad hint from a bear of little brain)
> mc
Marie:
If Jack
wrote because we are all going to die.
If we deny we are going
to
die. And if we made up god because we
are all going to die. Then
literature
is about we are all going to die. God
is about we are all
going
to die. Beat is about we are all going
to die. It is all about
the
same thing. It is the same thing. god = literature = poets =
nothing
= dog (if you're dyslexic) = beat-l.
What do you want to talk
about? I am thinking that lit-er-a-chure is very
very personal. I am
thinking
that as my cyber pen pal charles plymell once said, I think I
am
going to take a real shit. That will be
real. It is not personal.
And it
will be shared with all the alligators down in the sewer. I
guess
gravity's rainbow can help us tell shit from shinola, but which
yo-yos
are going to catch the alligators that live down in a all the
real
personal shit we send down the tube every day.
Have you ever
worshipped
a white porcelain god? I have. It is one way to know the
wrath
of god close up. You always make a lot
of promises you never keep
too. I wonder if allen, jack, neal, charles,
harold, lawrence, ann,
anias,
phillip, gary, gary, etc ever WASTED time talking about god? or
religion? If so, why can't we?
Maybe I
just don't get it. If so, please
explain it to me back channel.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 17:03:04 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Luther Allison
MIME-Version:
1.0
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text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Richard,
Got my
ticket and going up to the city in a few minutes. Luther is
playing
Great American Music Hall which is a nice venue. Looking
forward
to hearing that Les Paul rip.
James
R&R
Houff wrote:
>
>
Hello James,
>
> If
you catch Luther in Frisco you won't be disappointed-he'll be
>
playing a 1960 Les Paul (reissue). He tore up the 1995 Chicago Blues
>
Fest with that same guitar. . .
>
>
Richard Houff
>
Pariah Press
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 17:14:05 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: EXPLODING BEAT READING LIST AND MAO
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
s.a.
griffin wrote:
>
> At
09:22 PM 6/28/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
>s.a. griffin's idea of a Beat List Reading List and mine of a Beat List
>
>Literary Map. Writers listed under
locale. Writer can appear in more
>
>than one place, but must have important tie to area, not just passing
>
>through. I'll start with a very
sketchy West Coast portrait. The list
>
>should EXPLODE. feel free to add,
delete, move, etc. Needs to have
>
>favorite titles added somewhere
>
>
>
>PORTLAND
>
>
>
>Snyder, Gary
>
>Welsh, Lew
>
>Whalen, Phil
>
>
>
>SAN FRANCISCO
>
>
>
>Duncan, Robert
>
>Spicer, Jack
>
>Rexroth, Kenneth
>
>Watts, Alan
>
>Lamantia, Phillip
>
>Kaufman, Bob
>
>McClure, Michael
>
>Snyder, Gary
>
>Welsh, Lew
>
>Whalen, Phil
>
>Plymell, Charles
>
>Reynolds, Frank
>
>Kyger, Joanne
>
>Kandel, Lenore
>
>Micheline, Jack
>
>Kesey, Ken
Ferlinghetti,
Lawrence
CENTRAL
COAST
Miller,
Henry
Patchen,
Kenneth
>
>
LOS ANGELES
>
>
>
>Lipton, Lawrence
>
>Bukowski, Charles
>
>Peters, Robert
>
>griffin, s.a.
>
>Selby, Herbert
>
>Morrison, Jim
>
>Huxley, Aldous
>
Scibella, Tony
>
Thomas, John
>
Rios, Frank T.
>
Long, Philomene
>
Wannberg, Scott
>
Maybe, Ellyn
> Abee,
St
>
>
>
>
>
>SAN DIEGO
>
>
>
>Gerlach, Fred (a great 12 string player, only San Diegan I could think of)
Someone
needs to do the midwest.
>
>
>
>
>
>and on and on
>
>
>
>James Stauffer
>
>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 00:14:52 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: spare us
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
R. Bentz Kirby
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 1997 4:10 PM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: spare us
Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
>
yo, homeboy!
>
lets get off all this personal crap and in front of god and all, lets
>
talking about some <gasp> lit-er-a- chure!!!!
> (a
very broad hint from a bear of little brain)
> mc
Marie:
If Jack
wrote because we are all going to die.
If we deny we are going
to
die. And if we made up god because we
are all going to die. Then
literature
is about we are all going to die. God
is about we are all
going
to die. Beat is about we are all going
to die. It is all about
the
same thing. It is the same thing. god = literature = poets =
nothing
= dog (if you're dyslexic) = beat-l.
What do you want to talk
about? I am thinking that lit-er-a-chure is very
very personal. I am
thinking
that as my cyber pen pal charles plymell once said, I think I
am
going to take a real shit. That will be
real. It is not personal.
And it
will be shared with all the alligators down in the sewer. I
guess
gravity's rainbow can help us tell shit from shinola, but which
yo-yos
are going to catch the alligators that live down in a all the
real
personal shit we send down the tube every day.
Have you ever
worshipped
a white porcelain god? I have. It is one way to know the
wrath
of god close up. You always make a lot
of promises you never keep
too. I wonder if allen, jack, neal, charles,
harold, lawrence, ann,
anias,
phillip, gary, gary, etc ever WASTED time talking about god? or
religion? If so, why can't we?
Maybe I
just don't get it. If so, please
explain it to me back channel.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Thank
you Bentz.
Maybe
the suggestion should be: if you don't
like the book don't read it...
doesn't
mean the book isn't worthwhile for others.
I don't think that because
I'm not
particularly interested in something (or even think something's not
fit to
wipe my ass for that matter) no one else should be.... and god forbid
that I
should ever try to stuff someone else's self-expression (outside of
that
which is harmful to any form of life... for Spirit is the anima, the
constant,
the thread... god has anyone here read Jung's Aion?) regardless of
my
opinion of it. If I don't like it I'll
ignore it, not engage....
By the
way, I may be wrong, but I always thought that the very act of
publishing
a work of literature was to open the collective conciousness to
something,
because someone needed/wanted to get something very personal out
there
for others to experience/feel/discuss....
for
what it's worth,
Sherri
love_singing@msn.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 21:45:59 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Charles Plymell Hwy & God
In a
message dated 97-06-29 01:36:20 EDT, you write:
<<
I've been on the road doing a few blues gigs and tied up with my old
friend Luther Allison and ended-up writing an
interview for him and
Alligator Records. It'll come out before July
11 (he'll be playing
here on that date). Pulse magazine
interviewed me and I mentioned you
and AG. I'm not sure if I'll be censored or
not so I'll mail you the
original before they fuck it up. >>
Richard,
Thanks.
I been wondern' who happen to ya. I wuz about to net you. Dibn't know
you
were on Bad Blues Road. Been listening to Big Joe Turner's lyrics. "
Please
Mr. Johnson, don't play the blues so sad."
Good
hearing from you. Maybe the Beat-L would be interested in the interview,
too.
Charley
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 09:52:40 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Kerouac names (was notice to all
beetles)
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
runner711
wrote:
>what
of all the
>
pseudonames used by Ginsberg and Kerouac in their literature? Anybody
>have
> a
list of em handy? their inspiration?
I just
bought The Portable Jack Kerouac and it has a two-page identity
key,
too complex to type at the moment.
There have been other threads on
this
topic that you could check out in the beat-l archive, if it
interests
you. The most interesting thing to me
though was in Ann
Charters
introduction, where she writes, "Kerouac enjoyed making large
claims
for what he was attempting to achieve in his Legend of Duluoz, but
thinking
about his writing in grandiose terms came naturally to him. He
created
his three-syllable pseudonym 'Duluoz' in 1942, when he was barely
twenty
years old. This was a decade before he
began writing the books
that
comprise the Legend of Duluoz. Kerouac
invented his pseudonym after
encountering
the name 'Stephen Dedalus,' created by James Joyce for his
protagonist
in Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, which Kerouac read
after
he dropped out of Columbia College and worked briefly as a sports
reporter
for his hometown newspaper. According
to his journals and a
poem in
'Richmond Hill Blues'(1953), Kerouac noticed a story in the
Lowell
Sun about a local man named 'Daoulas,' and he later played around
with
several variations on it, like 'Dalouas,' 'Dalous,' and 'Duouoiz,'
before
settling on 'Duluoz.'"
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 22:01:02 -0400
Reply-To:
CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Summer Reading Project
Comments:
To: stauffer@pacbell.net
In a
message dated 97-06-29 00:24:43 EDT, you write:
<< I love the place, but these guys
don't see past their own navels. >>
When I
was there they were looking for their navels. There is strange sense
there
and everywhere of fragmentation. I was
just raving about the uncanny
commercial
aspect of the way Poetry Flash presented the soul of SF as well as
our
current poetry milieu. Just wanted to see if anyone was listening.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 22:19:11 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Charles Plymell Hwy & God
In a
message dated 97-06-29 01:39:17 EDT, you write:
<<
You know 666 is an encryption for the
Roman Emporers that did a lot of evil things
and it might be bad karma
to use that, but then again, it might help
you out in the long run.
>>
How
many Karmas since the Roman Empire?
I'll
tell you many just since the word was hip
has to
do with Ginsbergs, too--long a story for
now,
sell a Karma/ Moloch got you.
Chemical
euphoria eats the Poetry Flash paper!
Pegasus
electrified in red
below
the great signs shining
on the
horizon...MOBIL
for
travelers of the new dark ages
with
superstitions, icons, symbols
talk of
prophets, karma, golden rule
and all
that old horseshit jazz
in a
system that only eats its
younger
generations who always
catch
on about the time they're swallowed
while
reading the new morality speak
in the
New York Times.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 22:21:05 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: GO
I've
never read GO. I'll take your recommendation under consideration.
C.
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 22:30:47 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: spare us
In a
message dated 97-06-29 15:15:41 EDT, you write:
<<
I DONT WANNA HEAR ABOUT GOD ANYMORE >>
Thank
you Jeazus and Bubba Buddha too.
C.
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 22:38:39 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: spare us
Throughout
history Christians are not known for their reading of objective
literature.
C.
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 02:58:42 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: spare us
This is
true.... but are you assuming that cuz we're talkin bout god that it's
the
simplistic Biblical one? I for one
can't accept that one dimensional
model... However, I have known Christians who do read
and have a much more
expanded
view on this subject than the sheep-like majority...
Ciao,
Sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Pamela Beach Plymell
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 1997 7:38 PM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: spare us
Throughout
history Christians are not known for their reading of objective
literature.
C.
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 20:08:24 -0700
Reply-To: runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner711
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: spare us
In-Reply-To:
<l03020900afdc3eb5a63c@[206.25.67.104]>
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At 1:34
PM -0700 6/29/97, Marie Countryman wrote:
>
yo, homeboy!
>
lets get off all this personal crap and in front of god and all, lets
>
talking about some <gasp> lit-er-a- chure!!!!
> (a
very broad hint from a bear of little brain)
yes,
have beat on god enough this past week.
feel better now. still
thinking
of his words, though, remembering how they touched me. Grateful
to
Diane for her consistent clarifications, my feeble replies, and the many
friends
I've discovered in the process. but
yes, enough. the seven days
are
up. but for the inspiration, the edge
he provided,
:-)
<<god>>
well,
you know what I mean. thank you.
> mc
cheers,
Douglas
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 22:05:56 -0500
Reply-To: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: spare us
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Patricia
Elliott wrote:
>
>
Bruce W. Hartman, Jr. wrote:
>
>
>
> Beat Friends & Philosophers:
>
>
>
> What's the problem,
Maya? How can he be such a bastard if
he really
>
> exists? The problem, as I see it,
is simple: too many people claim to
>
> have the goods on him, yet no one lives like they do. . .
>
> A few posts ago, someone
(forgive me, my itchy delete finger got the
best
>
> of me) said our buddy Nietzche proved him dead a long time ago, well, I
did
>
> read the book, and Nietzche did no such proving. All Nietzche did was make
>
> a declaration and then live by it.
I wish more people would do the same,
>
> meaning, I wish people would say something and then live up to it.
>
> I can think of plenty of
things that get too much play, but God or
the
>
> lack of (in whatever form he/she does/doesn't exist) should be talked
about
>
> a hell of a lot more than it is, especially here.
>
> Who gives a shit what does
or doesn't make a poet. We'll sit here
till
>
> the cows come home debating that one, but God, well now, he gets too much
>
> intime on the old Beat-L, let's not talk about him anymore. Fuck that.
>
>
>
> Thinking himself SO DEEP,
>
>
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
> ... Sin strongly.
>
> --Martin Luther
>
well actually i give a shit what makes
a poet and i don't give a shit
>
about the christian god concept except possibly as something to compare
> to
other, to my eyes, more benign dieties and fables, and i was really
>
bored while deleting a lot of the recent posts which isn't that big a
>
deal but if you need to talk about god a whole lot may a special god
>
list, i really enjoy talking about beat literatures, characters,
>
folklore and related items.
> p
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 22:17:26 -0600
Reply-To: stand666@bitstream.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: R&R Houff <stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>
Subject: Pulse interview (UNCENSORED)
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PULSE MAGAZINE / HOLLY DAY INTERVIEWS RICHARD D. HOUFF/ June 6, 1997
HOLLY: Names of books you've written/published.
RICHARD: The first actual collection of poems that
was published in
book
form, was called: "IF IT SHOULD RAIN," which had a page count of
120.
The two follow-up collections: "STREET POEMS" / & "STATION
62" were
released
as a two volume package consisting of 248 pages. All three
books
were published in France by Louis Giroux Editions, of Paris, a now
defunct
publishing house. Some of the poems from "STREET," were
bootlegged
into the former Soviet Union, along with
excerpts from a
novel I
wrote back in the '70's, called "TRIP: AN LSD ADVENTURE." The
novel,
was also published in France under the Giroux imprint and became
an
underground mainstay for a number of years. The nice thing about
choosing
Europe as a publishing venture came about through friends who
for
whatever reason, remained in Europe because of the literary
community.
The media and the age of electronics was in its infancy
state.
In other words people still purchased and read books versus the
latest
video game or tickets to "Disney World." Europe was still a clean
place
to publish=97of course that is rapidly changing, the "Golden Arches=
"
mentality
has arrived so it's only a matter of time. I got involved at a
good
time and I'm thankful. During the 80's I was submitting to European
mags
almost exclusively and several volumes of short stories were
published
at this time. Having established somewhat of a track record
"over
there," I decided to try my hand at submitting manuscripts on
American
soil and have had 4 volumes of poetry published: "AFTER HOURS,"
was a
cooperative venture with Poor People & Poets Press, of Chicago=97no=
w
defunct,
"PERPLEXITIES OF TAKING ALTERNATE ROUTES," was published in a
cheap
edition from Bootleg Press, and wasn't one of my best efforts. A
failure
in experimentation is what I would call it at this point. My
next
book "USED SHOES" from Roving Anvil Press was a real success story
for me,
and the response was very positive. Tom Clark, passed it around
Berkeley
and faculty at New College, and was very supportive. For
poetry,
three printings is=97and was quite remarkable. My Latest book
Exit(s)
has been well received on the W. Coast as well=97but it won't
enjoy
three printings I'm sure. Outside of the above, there have been 12
or 14
chaps published that I really don't count. At best, you give them
away
for free. I've never taken them seriously unless they're hand
stitched
and letter- press quality=97I only have a few that fit that mold.
HOLLY: When did you start writing seriously (not
necessarily
professionally)
and what prompted you to start?
RICHARD: Back in '67 (Summer Of Love) I started
writing small poems and
journal
entries. I was a hungry kid living in one dollar a night hotels
in and
around downtown Mpls. Many of them=97if not all, have been knocked
down=97fewer
places for the homeless to call home. At the time, I=20
was
damn glad to have a roof over my head. What prompted me to become a
writer
was the City Lights edition of Kenneth Patchen's, "Love Poems." A
childhood
friend, Roger Kiemele put it in my hands back in '64 or
'65=97can't
remember. All I know, is that I could sense and feel Patchen'=
s
love
and his rage. I could identify with his poverty and felt alone in
an
adult world where I was the enemy. Sometimes, I still feel this
way=97especially
around suits and ties, a general mistrust.
HOLLY: When did you start getting your writing
published, and what
prompted
you to do so? Did you know any other people at the time
publishing
their work that might have influenced you to do so?
RICHARD:
My first published piece was a small poem back in '67. I think
Cid
Corman picked it up for Origin. When I was a kid, I never thought of
keeping
records. I was more concerned about making some money. Survival
was for
whatever reason, an important fact of life for me. Beneath the
"Reichean
body armor," there was a hopeless romantic that wanted out.
Maybe
that would explain the importance of survival=97curiosity? At the
time, I
was really afraid to let people know that I was writing at
all=97and
especially poetry. The middle sixties was divided into camps an=
d
kids
still used their fists to settle up. If I would've even hinted
poetry,
rest assured, my face would've been
pounded with faggot
accusations
coming from all sides. I left home for good when I was 15
yrs old
and never looked back. In answer to your question of what the
motivating
factor of getting work published was=97for me, at that time
was/and
still is quite complex. The need to connect was always a factor
and
making some "quick" money. You sell a story=97you eat and keep your
head
above water.
=20
HOLLY: Who/what have been some of the major
influences in your life?
When I
was 13 yrs old, I read "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair. Coming
from a
small slaughterhouse town, this single book completely altered my
life
for the better=97one of the main reasons for leaving home. Reading
"Hunger"
by Knut Hamsun, Sherwood Anderson, Richard Wright, and
Steinbeck
were all childhood influences. I was a voracious reader=97a
habit that's still with me. Discovering the 19 th.
C. French romantics
was a
breath of fresh air that kept my sanity in-check. Of course,
loosing
it with Apollinaire, Breton, Cendrars, Celine, and the endless
list
wasn't half bad. A lot of people seem to think Bukowski was an
influence
on my later stages of development which isn't the case. Buk
was an
early friend from '69 up till his death. We were being published
in the
same mimeos in and around L.A. I was writing
juvenile articles
on the
joys of doing acid and would sign a different name each week.
When we
first met he called me an idiot and I called him an asshole.
After
awhile, I would show up at his place (usually stoned) with some
beer.
He would drink it and then throw me out. I would just laugh and
eventually
we became friends=97a very slow process, I might add. When Cit=
y
Lights
released Charles Plymell's, "The Last Of The Moccasins" in '71, I
was
totally blown away. Here was a man that spoke to my soul and had
been
thru similar hells. It was like discovering the "big brother" I
always
wanted. I met Allen Ginsberg in '72, and he turned me onto some
of the
Beat writers, but I always returned to Plymell as a Beat
source=97he
had the edge that seemed to be lacking in other writers at th=
e
time.
HOLLY: What was the stupidest thing (or one of the
stupidest things)
you
ever did?
RICHARD: Growing up poor had its disadvantages and
advantages. If you
wanted
to look nice, have a set of wheels, money, and the other niceties
denied
to the poor; you became a thief. In our town you could work like
a dog
for shitty wages=97not counting the abuse from "the Boss," and the
community
in general; or you could just say fuck-it and skim from the
top. We
had a code of honor: "Never steal from the poor working stiff or
your
own neighborhood. Steal from the rich and spread the booty ala
Robin
Hood, and keep the rest!" Okay, now that I've justified my devious
ways=97here
goes: The stupidest thing I did was get talked into breaking
into a
farm implements store and using a 1954 Ford, Flathead 6 cylinder,
3 speed
manual with a top-end of only 60 miles per hour, as the getaway
car.
The car belonged to my older brother and we had switched the
license
plates (the only smart thing we did). To make a long story
short,
we botched the job and we were chased by an Iowan constable
driving
a pickup on gravel roads. Being country, all us kids had
shotguns
and squirrel rifles. I happened to have a 16 gauge in the back
so I
shot the guys radiator and that was the end of the chase. We made
it
across the border into Minnesota and hid the car in a friends garage.
I
wasn't concerned about the guy being hurt; I knew that he would be
okay.
What bothered me was the fact that I pulled a gun on a cop and
could've
landed in some major trouble. Now that would qualify me as a
stupid
bastard=97live and learn. I wised up with time, but the kids with
me on
that night would be dead within several years of that particular
incident.
I guess they didn't learn.
HOLLY: Have you ever been hit so hard you shit
yourself (standard
question
I ask=97just to see if anyone else has had this experience)?
RICHARD: I have taken many blows in my time and
delved out as much and
then
some. I have been knocked off my feet twice; once by a refrigerator
door,
and once by a guys fist. I've been told that the guy who put me
down
stood at 6'10 with a weight of 300 or more pounds=97no fat. I can't
remember
much about the incident other than 3 weeks after the fact
someone
had put a bullet thru his head. Apparently, he bullied the wrong
guy.
They say that he liked picking out the "intoxicated" for punching
bag
practice. However, in answer to your question about shitting my
pants,
it hasn't happened as yet.
HOLLY: Anything else you might like to add, maybe a
pitch for Heeltap
or your
anthology?
RICHARD: Well, I am happy to report that the first
issue of Heeltap
sold
out before it hit the shelves. I distributed nationally and the
reviews
are still rolling along with some excellent feedback. "Scorched
Hands:
An Anthology Of Verse & Rage," took a year to complete. I
assembled
five to six generations of poets from all walks of life, and
threw them
under the same cover. From the well known to the obscure=97and
it
worked! I was able to recover costs without shelf sales, and to date;
have
sold over a thousand copies. Shelf sales on the W. Coast and E.
Coast
have been steady, and you can obtain copies off the web as well at
various
book sites. I haven't distributed on the local level. Locally,
the
buying public has a rather conservative majority especially in
regards
to poetry. However, if people are interested in obtaining a
copy,
it can be ordered thru your local independent booksellers=97not too
many of
them left. I would also like to point out, this work is
uncensored
as is all Pariah Press titles=97including the magazine Heeltap.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 23:18:54 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: spare us
Comments:
To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
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Pamela
Beach Plymell wrote:
>
>
Throughout history Christians are not known for their reading of objective
>
literature.
> C.
Plymell
Hell
Charles, they don't read it, they burn it.
I often why I keep
hanging
on to this religion. I mean, ask what's
her name in Alexandria.
They
burned her library, killed all the gnostics, and flayed her to
death in public.
Thanks a lot for being literary.
Yeah, the
Christians
just don't, as an organization, like good literature do they.
I hope
my church never finds out that I think for myself. It is an
uneasy
truce at best.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 00:18:42 -0000
Reply-To: "Bruce W. Hartman, Jr."
<bwhartmanjr@INAME.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Bruce W. Hartman, Jr."
<bwhartmanjr@INAME.COM>
Subject: Re: spare us
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>
> well actually i give a shit what makes
a poet and i don't give a shit
>
> about the christian god concept except possibly as something to compare
>
> to other, to my eyes, more benign dieties and fables, and i was really
>
> bored while deleting a lot of the recent posts which isn't that big a
>
> deal but if you need to talk about god a whole lot may a special god
>
> list, i really enjoy talking about beat literatures, characters,
>
> folklore and related items.
Patricia,
and other Beat Friends,
Why do you assume that my god is the
hell-fire and brimstone god of
Christian
lore? To be honest, I haven't got a
clue. . . I've been pelted
with
every image imaginable, two or three time over, and each time I find
something
I detest about each one. I'm sick and
tired of the fast-food
style
of spirituality that people seem to believe in nowadays. . .
"I'll have a god combo number
two, hold the pickle and the commitment."
"Would you like a hot apple pie
with that, sir?"
I can just write off the almighty like
the few of you would like me to. I
can't
believe there's no room for god (or your preferred moniker here) on
the
Beat-L. What about the spiritual side
of the Beats? Jack spent a good
part of
his life either running to find god, or running away from him once
he
found him.
Suddenly I'm talking about god a whole
lot. . . I don't think so. Since
when
does a post asking for clarification of a statement like "god has been
proven
dead" constitute "a whole lot"?
Spare ME.
Go ahead, hit me with the stand-by:
"Spirituality is relative. . ." so
what's
the point of me going on about it here?
I'm tired of relativity,
relativity
is bullshit, relativity is an excuse people use so they don't
have to
confront whatever it is they think is so damn relative.
If you don't like what I have to say,
use the delete button. . .
Bruce
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 11:18:52 -0700
Reply-To: dumo13@EROLS.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Chris Dumond <dumo13@EROLS.COM>
Subject: tying it all together
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Hello
again.
This
discussion list is wonderfull. I've
been on many a mailing list
only to
see it destroyed by ignorance and I'm excited to see the level of
intelligent
conversation here!
Many of
you have asked, "how can science be disproven?"
For
example... the earth is not flat -- easy
but do
you know that many of Newton's 'LAWS' of physics only apply to a
limited
number of constants and that they are innaccurate in others...
that's
where we get the genius of Einstein who was so nice as to fill in
the
blanks.
Science
is just another way man can justify things he can't honestly
explain. Just like many religions. The problem with science and
religion
(GOD) is that the fundamental basics are unexplainable and
beyond
comprehension... hell, most of the time they are based on guesses
or
less.
****************
>Who
puts the poem or prose to the true test--
>is
it art? The reader, the critic, the
writer?
>DC
While I
believe there are some mystical qualifications for being a poet,
it
doesn't take much to become a critic.
The basic act of breathing once
released
from the womb qualifies, I think... Beats, especially Ginsberg,
Kerouac
and Ferlinghetti really challenged the question of "what is art?"
Allen
Ginsberg, as you know, faced art v. obscenity -- along with
Ferlinghetti,
but also re-opened art in literature for many people. For
so long
American writing has been stale and without vision! Allen
Ginsberg
is the atomic bomb at the center of it all.
Quote me on that...
Allen
Ginsberg scared people -- he made them think
Ginsberg
forced you to experience life rather
than walk the planet in
shell
of flesh waiting to die.
Atomic
Allen Ginsberg, unlike his nuclear Russia, exploded!
I know
why Allen Ginsberg loved Walt Whitman.
They both loved life.
They
injected life into poetry and made it beautiful again.
Poets
to Come
- Walt
Whitman
"Poets
to come! orators, singers, musicians to come!
Not
to-day is to justify me and answer what I am for,
But
you, a new brood, native, athletic, continental, greater than before
known,
Arouse! For you must justify me.
I
myself but write one or two indicative words for the future,
I but
advance a moment only to wheel and hurry back in the darkness.
I am a
man who, sauntering along without fully stopping, turns a casual
look upon you and then averts his
face,
Leaving
it to you to prove and define it,
Expecting
the main things from you."
Walt
Whitman... the granddaddy-beat. These
men injected innovation into
a tired
system of unmotivated and unchanging FORMS.
Life without
innovation
is worthless!!!! Ferlinghetti with the unorthodox spatiality
of
poetry and lord, the SUBJECTS are divine.
Jack with a real story to
read...
who cares about CONVENTIONS?! and beatific Allen raining life,
pride
and love on all of us.
Chris
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/2124/
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 11:49:32 -0700
Reply-To: dumo13@EROLS.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Chris Dumond <dumo13@EROLS.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Names(was notice to all
beetles)
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> According to his journals and a
>poem
in 'Richmond Hill Blues'(1953), Kerouac noticed a story in the
>Lowell
Sun about a local man named 'Daoulas,' and he later played around
>with
several variations on it, like 'Dalouas,' 'Dalous,' and 'Duouoiz,'
>before
settling on 'Duluoz.'"
>DC
Or it
could be French/Canadian for 'Jack the Louse'
I
honestly don't think Jack put too terribly much thought into selection
of names
for characters. Gregory Corso = Raphael
Urso... It seems to me
like he
used real names to inspire alias and nothing else... Desolation
Angels
makes that pretty clear to me, but I'd be interested in hearing
more
about 'Sal Paradise'
BTW Was
Memere's maiden name Rioux?? My grandmother's maiden name is
Rioux. If anyone with Kerouac geneology info could
email me, I'd
appreciate
it.
Very
rooted in frenchcanadiannortheast,
Chris
Dumond.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 07:08:51 +0200
Reply-To: Ksenija Simic
<ksenija@GALOIS.MI.SANU.AC.YU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ksenija Simic
<ksenija@GALOIS.MI.SANU.AC.YU>
Subject: chicago
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hi
everybody,
i'm
travelling to chicago this week (won't you please come to chicago noone
else
can take your place - C,S,N&Y). i've never been there. is there
something
really worth doing there?
also,
where can i find the recordings of the poetry readings by kerouac and
ginsberg?
thanks.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 22:15:11 -0700
Reply-To: runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner711
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: tying it all together
In-Reply-To: <33B6A70C.7C56@erols.com>
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At
11:18 AM -0700 6/29/97, Walt Whitman wrote:
> I
myself but write one or two indicative words for the future,
> I
but advance a moment only to wheel and hurry back in the darkness.
> I
am a man who, sauntering along without fully stopping, turns a casual
> look upon you and then averts his
face,
>
Leaving it to you to prove and define it,
>
Expecting the main things from you."
<<lurker
mode on>> Douglas <<keep up
good work!!>>
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ summer
save
it, just keep it off my wave
is
-- ("my wave," soundgarden) here
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 00:18:11 -0500
Reply-To: Leo Jilk <ljilk@MAIL.MPS.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leo Jilk <ljilk@MAIL.MPS.ORG>
Subject: Re: spare us
In-Reply-To:
<33B7259E.5EC0596B@scsn.net>
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>Pamela
Beach Plymell wrote:
>>
>>
Throughout history Christians are not known for their reading of objective
>>
literature.
>>
C. Plymell
>Hell
Charles, they don't read it, they burn it.
I often why I keep
>hanging
on to this religion. I mean, ask what's
her name in Alexandria.
>They
burned her library, killed all the gnostics, and flayed her to
>death in public.
Thanks a lot for being literary.
Yeah, the
>Christians
just don't, as an organization, like good literature do they.
>I
hope my church never finds out that I think for myself. It is an
>uneasy
truce at best.
>
Thinking
of holocaust, when they start burning books, people can't be far
behind.
-leo
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 00:56:19 +0000
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From: "neudorf@discovland.net"
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Subject: Whitman
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Chris
wrote:
>
Walt Whitman... the granddaddy-beat.
Reading
"Leaves of Grass" is like reading the Baghavad-Gita. However,
much of
his democratic optimism and lust for future potential has been
brought
down by 20th century reality. That's o.k. - all the more reason
to read
more Whitman. Poems to read: "Song of Myself" - "Song of the
Open
Road" - "I Sing the Body Electric" - etc.
Here's
a short piece that i use, written by the Good Grey Poet:
TO YOU
[line structure may be off]
Stranger,
if you passing meet me desire to speak to me
why
should you not speak to me?
and why
should I not speak to you?
Joseph
Neudorfer