=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 00:19:59 -0700
Reply-To: runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner711
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: <<Diane>>, di prima,
<<beauty>>
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<<poetry
provides many answers>>
Diane,
gave away my di prima book, so instead I have patti smith.
hopefully
she will pass this list's beat test.
<<and who's Anne Sexton??>>
from "babel" I randomly turn to
page .... 89/90.
judith
revisited (fragments)
the
ladies room is ravaged
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-
parts
i. ----> iv. <<snipped>>
v.
oh
jesus write it out of your body patti.
wait wait all night. weary day.
is snow
too romantic? we could do it in the
snow. washing your hair.
bending
over the tub. running my soapy forefinger down your spine. you on
your
knees bent over the tub. your breasts
out of shape swaying like two
golden
bells. i'm the gardener you're the lady
chatterly. i stand up. turn
around
and suck my my dick.
washing
your hair. maybe too romantic. so what clock. i imagine you on the
nile.
that neck of yours enough to make Nefertiti blush [[english
patient??]]. the delicious white slump of your shoulder
after lovemaking
after
love it
wears off [[can the same be said of god?]] there's grass stains on
your
dress [[whitman?]]. we are nearly finished. a cold july with
her. in
her
sunsuit. her fleshy legs. when I press
my thumb against it makes a
white
mark. the powder on her wrist. how she
never removes her heavy
bracelets
(african) even to make love. her ballet scar. all things pure.
human? no mam. go away from them. mistress is
gelatin. atom.
she's a
football player. one night. [[i.e., with Tom Verlaine]]. no its
dusk.
in back of the bleachers. blondest sweetest football virgin. hardon
softest
leather buttocks. lick it up her delicious teen-age sweat
[[Ginsberg??]]
show her how. make her again. leave her
dazed confused
exhausted
defiled spidered black as coal. oooy-gooey all over her high
school
letter. kick her in the side. in the ear. words pour
i leave
you laying there. i am intact. and i don't care
(rimbaud)
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ summer
save
it, just keep it off my wave
is
-- ("my wave," soundgarden) here
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:40:46 +0200
Reply-To: Ksenija Simic
<ksenija@GALOIS.MI.SANU.AC.YU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ksenija Simic
<ksenija@GALOIS.MI.SANU.AC.YU>
Subject: Re: Whitman
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"Camarado,
this is
not a book!
Who
touches this, touches the man."
(i
don't presently have the book with me, so the quote isn't accurate. the
point,
however, is the same)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 07:51:45 -0400
Reply-To: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: the beat (en) horse/summer reading
update
In-Reply-To: <33B615BE.2AA5@together.net>
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>>
lets get off all this personal crap and in front of god and all,
was my
reference to god. i was saying that god/goddesses exist -if only in
the
minds of the believers and also reigns high in the ranks of the
existentialists,
who need him/her if only to not believe.
no argument
here.
just up to my ear lobes in it all
yes,
there is a drive toward immortality which may fuel some(most?)
writers,
but it ,
ok.
this was not meant to be a flame.
now
instead of reading about everyones personal reactions to or negating of
god,
let's
talk about the literature.
i just
finished feat&loathing in Los vegas;
have
started reading hell's angels
but
then i was waylaid by bob kaufman: out of sheer delight, but i seem to
have
misplaced him,
so its
back on the harley for me
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:47:36 -0400
Reply-To: Marioka7@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: spare us
In a
message dated 97-06-29 19:52:22 EDT, you write:
<<
but God, well now, he gets too much
time on the old Beat-L, let's not talk about
him anymore. Fuck that.
Thinking himself SO DEEP,
Bruce
>>
I'm
sorry about my careless post. But I
guess I'm modest and don't like all
the
attention i was receiving with everyone talking about Me and everything.
By the way, I'm a woman.
------maya
(kidding)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 15:01:32 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: spare us
<much
laughter>
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Maya Gorton
Sent: Monday, June 30, 1997 7:47 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: spare us
In a
message dated 97-06-29 19:52:22 EDT, you write:
<<
but God, well now, he gets too much
time on the old Beat-L, let's not talk about
him anymore. Fuck that.
Thinking himself SO DEEP,
Bruce
>>
I'm
sorry about my careless post. But I
guess I'm modest and don't like all
the
attention i was receiving with everyone talking about Me and everything.
By the way, I'm a woman.
------maya
(kidding)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:22:28 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Bukowski
Comments:
To: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@scsn.net>
In-Reply-To: <33B5389B.5D9A412C@scsn.net>
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On Sat,
28 Jun 1997, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
Burning in Water, Drowning in Flame
My
first introduction to his poetry and to Buk in general). You're right,
this
one's great. Sometimes I OD on him when I read a whole bookfull of his
poetry
once but man he's damn good. Just small little honest snippets of
life,
lined up in a simple column all lower case ... he makes it look so
easy to
write great poetry.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 23:33:19 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: <<Diane>>, di prima,
<<beauty>>
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>runner711
wrote:
>
>
<<poetry provides many answers>>
If
poetry provides the answers, who asks the question? The poet? Ah,
sorry
folks, won't follow that line of line of thought any farther...
>
Diane, gave away my di prima book, so instead I have patti smith.
>
hopefully she will pass this list's beat test.
<<and who's Anne
>Sexton??>>
Ginsberg
performed with patti smith several times, I believe. Befriended
her
when she needed a friend. Certainly
appropriate for beat-l
discussion. As for Anne Sexton, poet, this century,
often labeled
confessional,
nothing redemptive in the confessional aspect, committed
suicide,
and, I find, as I grab up my copy of the New Oxford Book of
American
Verse, to find her dates, she's not even there.
> from "babel" I randomly turn to
page .... 89/90.
>
>
judith revisited (fragments)
>
the ladies room is ravaged
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-
>
>
parts i. ----> iv. <<snipped>> part V <<snipped for
brevity of response>>
I find
you are keying in now on the Ginsberg everything is holy theme,
but am
I finding you still thinking Breton's "Beauty is repulsive," (not
sexually),
as you are reading/typing? I'm most
moved by the paradox at
the
end: "I leave you laying there. I
am intact..." It's all a paradox,
Douglas,
beginning with your random selection of this patti smith. beauty
is a
paradox, Babble, a paradox. As Ginsberg
would say, what is beauty
but a
six letter word? Babble, but a six letter word. And only a stream
of
archeytpal consciousness bringing it all here to this point where our
minds
meet.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 23:43:16 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: the beat (en) horse/summer reading
update
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>Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
>
now instead of reading about everyones personal reactions to or
>
negating of
>
god,
>
let's talk about the literature.
>
> i
just finished feat&loathing in Los vegas;
>
have started reading hell's angels
>
but then i was waylaid by bob kaufman: out of sheer delight, but i seem to
>
have misplaced him,
> so
its back on the harley for me
> mc
Can
some of us wildly grasp onto one Kerouac work, together, for the sake
of
discussion, and let comparisons/or lack
thereof, relate to whatever
other
writers we are reading at the moment?
I tend to have six books
going
at the same time. Start voting for
Kerouac, and which ever book
gets
the most votes wins. James, start counting...I vote for Visions of
Cody.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 09:37:41 -0400
Reply-To: MATT HANNAN
<MATT.HANNAN@OTC.USOC.CCHUB.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MATT HANNAN
<MATT.HANNAN@OTC.USOC.CCHUB.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: Kerouac Names(was notice to all
beetles)
Comments:
To: dumo13@EROLS.COM
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BTW Was
Memere's maiden name Rioux?? My grandmother's maiden name is
Rioux. If anyone with Kerouac geneology info could
email me, I'd
appreciate
it.
If'n memory serves (and it may not
always) her maiden name was
Levesque (or some similar such
spelling)--or am I quoting of a
fictional name?
matt
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:49:30 -0500
Reply-To: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: spare us
In-Reply-To: <UPMAIL14.199706300303490513@msn.com>
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An
elastic stretch on this thread--.
An
article in the daily waterpump the other day told of a cloth bracelet
some
christian group is selling. It has WWJD woven into it which means What
Would
Jesus Do. Story tells that they can't make them fast enough to fill
the
orders. A hot money-maker.
I was
reminded of a theology course I sat in on at the University of Iowa
many
years ago. I think it was a Forrell course. He urged the students to
read a
book titled IN HIS SHOES. Briefly, the
minister of an affluent
mainline
church asks congregants if they will join him in an experiement.
Before
making decisions they would ask themselves "What would Jesus do?" It
goes on
to tell the story of how the participant's lives were
affected--some
very dramatically. It was a turn of the century setting, but
some of
the characters (as I recall) ended up very Beat-like.
The
book was powerfully Communistic without mentioning politics. But what
stunned
me was finding out that the book had sold over 25 million copies
(over
25 years ago) and I'd never seen it on any list of best sellers, nor
heard
of it.
Suddenly,
along come some jack-leg christians, ripping off an authors basic
idea
and never mentioning where they got the idea. Out of curiosity, to
what
degree(if any) is this author's estate
being ripped off.
j grant
>This
is true.... but are you assuming that cuz we're talkin bout god that it's
>the
simplistic Biblical one? I for one
can't accept that one dimensional
>model... However, I have known Christians who do read
and have a much more
>expanded
view on this subject than the sheep-like majority...
>
>Ciao,
>Sherri
>
>----------
>From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Pamela Beach Plymell
>Sent: Sunday, June 29, 1997 7:38 PM
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Subject: Re: spare us
>
>Throughout
history Christians are not known for their reading of objective
>literature.
>C.
Plymell
Academic
& Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
372,191
visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 23:54:13 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: tying it all together
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>Chris
Dumond wrote:
>
>
Allen
>
Ginsberg is the atomic bomb at the center of it all. Quote me on
>
that...
>
Allen Ginsberg scared people -- he made them think
>
Ginsberg forced you to experience life
rather than walk the planet in
>
shell of flesh waiting to die.
>
Atomic Allen Ginsberg, unlike his nuclear Russia, exploded!
> I
know why Allen Ginsberg loved Walt Whitman.
They both loved life.
>
They injected life into poetry and made it beautiful again.
Nothing
but total agreement from me here. Image
of atomic bomb/fear is
an
excellent one!
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:58:50 -0400
Reply-To: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: the beat (en) horse/summer reading
update
In-Reply-To: <33B75584.3415@together.net>
Mime-Version:
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>
>Can
some of us wildly grasp onto one Kerouac work, together, for the sake
>of
discussion, and let comparisons/or lack
thereof, relate to whatever
>other
writers we are reading at the moment?
I tend to have six books
>going
at the same time. Start voting for
Kerouac, and which ever book
>gets
the most votes wins. James, start counting...I vote for Visions of
>Cody.
>DC
@@@@@@@
i'm up
for it. one of my favorites, and reads really well with cassady's
the
first third, which tells frankly, and in my opinion, beautifully, of
his
early childhood on the street with father.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 12:10:50 -0400
Reply-To: Greg Elwell <elwellg@VOICENET.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Greg Elwell
<elwellg@VOICENET.COM>
Subject: Re: spare us
Comments:
To: Leo Jilk <ljilk@mail.mps.org>
Mime-Version:
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At
12:18 AM 6/30/97 -0500, Leo Jilk wrote:
>>Pamela
Beach Plymell wrote:
>>>
>>>
Throughout history Christians are not known for their reading of objective
>>>
literature.
>>>
C. Plymell
>>Hell
Charles, they don't read it, they burn it.
I often why I keep
>>hanging
on to this religion. I mean, ask what's
her name in Alexandria.
>>They
burned her library, killed all the gnostics, and flayed her to
>>death in public.
Thanks a lot for being literary.
Yeah, the
>>Christians
just don't, as an organization, like good literature do they.
>>I
hope my church never finds out that I think for myself. It is an
>>uneasy
truce at best.
>>
>Thinking
of holocaust, when they start burning books, people can't be far
>behind.
>-leo
>
>
I don't
know how much this is relating to the subject, but I just
read(couple
days ago) that In Oklahoma, a judge ruled a 1979 award winning
film
"obscene." Then, after the
ruling, law enforcement officials tracked
down
EVERY SINGLE copy of the film that they could get their hands on in
the
state! One guy recalls sitting down to
watch it, and all of a sudden,
he
hears a knock on his door. Sure enough,
the police were waiting there,
because
they had gotten his name from a local video rental store, which
said
that he had rented it! Oh, the reason
the film was obscene was
because
it showed a minor partaking in some kind of sex act. The film
itself
dealt with the holocaust.
If they
can "take away" this film, they can definately take away _Naked
Lunch_(the
book).
ge elwellg@voicenet.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 12:21:55 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: Re: spare us
Comments:
To: Marioka7@AOL.COM
MIME-Version:
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Maya Gorton
wrote:
>
> In
a message dated 97-06-29 19:52:22 EDT, you write:
>
>
<< but God, well now, he gets too much
> time on the old Beat-L, let's not talk about
him anymore. Fuck that.
>
> Thinking himself SO DEEP,
>
> Bruce
> >>
>
>
I'm sorry about my careless post. But I
guess I'm modest and don't like all
>
the attention i was receiving with everyone talking about Me and everything.
> By the way, I'm a woman.
>
------maya (kidding)
All
hail the triple goddess, or some such said Robert Graves. I am she,
as you
are she, as you are me, as we are all together, or some such said
John
Lennon. Daddy, what is God like, I have
started to forget what she
was
like when I was in heaven, or some such said Sarah Catherine Kirby,
age
6. Maya, watch out, you might be more
correct than you realize.
But, my
question, are you the comely lass, the mature woman, or the olde
crone?
Peace,
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 12:32:01 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: Re: spare us
Comments:
To: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
MIME-Version:
1.0
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jo
grant wrote:
>
> An
elastic stretch on this thread--.
>
> An
article in the daily waterpump the other day told of a cloth bracelet
>
some christian group is selling. It has WWJD woven into it which means What
>
Would Jesus Do. Story tells that they can't make them fast enough to fill
>
the orders. A hot money-maker.
>
> I
was reminded of a theology course I sat in on at the University of Iowa
>
many years ago. I think it was a Forrell course. He urged the students to
>
read a book titled IN HIS SHOES.
Briefly, the minister of an affluent
>
mainline church asks congregants if they will join him in an experiement.
>
Before making decisions they would ask themselves "What would Jesus
do?" It
>
goes on to tell the story of how the participant's lives were
>
affected--some very dramatically. It was a turn of the century setting, but
>
some of the characters (as I recall) ended up very Beat-like.
>
>
The book was powerfully Communistic without mentioning politics. But what
>
stunned me was finding out that the book had sold over 25 million copies
>
(over 25 years ago) and I'd never seen it on any list of best sellers, nor
>
heard of it.
>
>
Suddenly, along come some jack-leg christians, ripping off an authors basic
>
idea and never mentioning where they got the idea. Out of curiosity, to
>
what degree(if any) is this author's
estate being ripped off.
>
> j
grant
Jo,
actually, I have a copy of the book and if I can find it will let
you
know any information that is on the title page. It was a good book,
but a writer
from Chicago wrote a better one in that line called Tell No
Man. Down here in SC, when a minister opens up
the doors of the church
to
prostitutes and the homeless, not to mention AIDS, we fire them in a
hurry. The Rev. Will B. Dunn in Kudzu is based upon
a Baptist Minister
in NC
that cared too much about reality and was defrocked. The
established
Church is about wordly power, and God
as we call it is
another.
My
point in another post was that Kerouac and others were driven by a
sense
of death, doom, and what the "answer" was. They looked to "God"?
or
what. What should we look to? Our collective selves, our
"beat-l"?
I agree
with Maya that discussion of "God" can be very sophmoric. I
agree
with Marie that it is easy to get off the literature track. So,
what do
we talk about then. If we are going to
discuss Kerouac, I vote
for
Pic.
How
about Ferlingetti's (sp?) new book.
That is a damn good book of
poems. Anybody read it?
Peace,
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 00:44:27 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Visionaries (Eliot/Ginsberg again, for
Michael Skau & et al)
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Now that
I've reread some Eliot, I am ready to address a few points from
earlier
Eliot/visionary discussion.
I think
there needs to be a distinction between a poet that writes
symbolically
and a visionary. Eliot is really
depressing. Eliot saw
what
was wrong, spiritually, but accepted "death-in-life,"
(Prufrock)
"Do
I dare disturb the universe?"
"I
am no prophet--and there's no great matter;
I have
seen the moment of my greatness flicker,
And I
have seen the eternal Footman hold my coat, and snicker.
And in
short, I was afraid."
Eliot
saw the vision, saw what was necessary to do, but could not rise to
the
task. The visionary poet must in some
meaning of the term, be a
prophet,
rail against the status quo, and in doing so put forth a his own
positive
vision of what is possible. He must as
Chris Dumond, so
articulately
put, in another post about Ginsberg, "[rain] life, pride,
and
love on us all." Blake took the
work of other writers, like Milton,
and put
his vision over their's in a way that spread out, and widened,
set up
his own system, of what was and what could be.
The
hope in the Wasteland is faint, really faint, the sound of thunder
there
but not resonant, not awakening, at least not yet. The grass is
singing
but it is not fully alive. Not in the
way Whitman or Ginsberg
sang or
were fully alive. A visionary says
"this is what I see" and
projects
his vision out there, loudly.
Eliot
writes,
"No!
I am not Prince Hamlet, nor was meant to be;
Am an
attendant lord, one that will do
To
swell a progress, start a scene or two,
Advise
the prince; no doubt, an easy tool,
Deferential,
glad to be of use,
Politic,
cautious, and meticulous;
Full of
high sentence, but a bit obtuse"
Eliot
used symbols well, layering in metaphoric and metaphysical
dimensions,
the fire and rose are one, even cyclic sometimes in his view
of
words and history, but often his words are devoid of power, the power
to
change, to do anymore than accept his lot.
A true visionary
transforms
experience, their experience and our experience. In Howl,
Ginsberg
raged against America, but he also saw the possibility for the
hope
that rises up in our humanness. Eliot
is not grasping upon the
mermaid,
rising with her cutching rebirth, he is looking at it from afar.
I would describe his voice not so much as a
visionary one as one that
saw
what was possible, but was unable to grasp whatever he needed to
transcend
his condition.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 12:11:29 -0500
Reply-To: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: spare us
In-Reply-To: <33B7259E.5EC0596B@scsn.net>
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Bentz,
I think
it was the the Vandals who were responsible for buring the greatest
library
of that age. Men ran the library ballgame in those days and they
all
fled. It was a woman who tried to reason with the Vandals (as I recall)
and
failed. I've tried to find the folder with the research material but
it's
packed someplace. When I come across it I'll share the sources.
There
are so many instances of christians burning books tho, that you may
have
the wrong yo yo, but you've certainly got the right string
j grant
>Pamela
Beach Plymell wrote:
>>
>>
Throughout history Christians are not known for their reading of objective
>>
literature.
>>
C. Plymell
>Hell
Charles, they don't read it, they burn it.
I often why I keep
>hanging
on to this religion. I mean, ask what's
her name in Alexandria.
>They
burned her library, killed all the gnostics, and flayed her to
>death in public.
Thanks a lot for being literary.
Yeah, the
>Christians
just don't, as an organization, like good literature do they.
>I
hope my church never finds out that I think for myself. It is an
>uneasy
truce at best.
>
>Peace,
>--
>Bentz
>bocelts@scsn.net
>
>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
BE ON THE WATCH
for
items stolen from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic
& Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
313,599 visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:28:55 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: > blade of grass <<was: ok, perhaps>>
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<<digging
thru my exceeded mailbox space>>
Shari
writ:
><<blade
of grass. What we don't know is what
god is. Perhaps the whole
>notion
of it is that s/he/it cannot be defined by humankind, because we, as a
>part
of god, cannot fully experience the whole and, therefore, can only
speculate
based on that portion of god which we can.>>
yes and
we must talk about the "portions of god we can see". Not just
relegate
him to a three letter word. granted
that's what he is. but
>still...
<<you know what I mean>>
>
><<This
is of course necessarily truncated, and barely scratches the surface,
but
hopefully you can read between the lines.>>
yes,
I've think I've fallen in a couple. my
couch last night seemed to
>have
a few. <<or perhaps that was the
cat???>> ;-)
>
><<Btw,
has anyone suggested a Beat chat room... would be alot easier to
discuss
some of this stuff that way and a hell of alot more fun.>>
yes,
and it would get us youngsters [freshmen] out of your hair, too!!!
><<laugh>>
>
><<Ciao,
Sherri
love_singing@msn.com>>
>cheers,
Douglas
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 12:27:01 -0600
Reply-To: stand666@bitstream.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: R&R Houff
<stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>
Subject: PULSE INTERVIEW (UNCENSORED)
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Thanks
Jo, and yes=97the town is Austin. Ever been there? It's a crazy
place
I've managed to avoid. You don't see Hamsun's name come up to
often.
It's like the other day, I had one of James Tate's grad students
at my
place and he selected some books off the shelf: Maurice
Maeterlinck,
Count Herman Keyserling, and Hamsun's "PAN" with a look
of
confusion he asked me if he could borrow them, and that he wasn't
aware
of them or the authors. I let him borrow "PAN," I thought that
was a
good choice.
Richard
Houff
Pariah
Press
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:35:46 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: God
<<still digging>>
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<<still
digging thru the beat backlog at work>>
Joseph
Neudorfer writ
><< [ = there is nothing holding us back
from knowing all, but there is
>no
>physical
possibility of reaching that 'all-knowledge', you would soon
>swim
in insanity . . . hense Jehovah is crazy . . . that is why even
>Moses,
the figure who was in Yahweh's presence, was not actually face to
>face.
When Moses asked Yahweh to reveal himself (one of the many times
>on
the mountains, after the burning bush), Yahweh only permitted Moses
>to
observe his back and shoulders - which on one level is a paradox in
itself.>>
and is
this why Andre Breton says "beauty must be repulsive"?? To reach
'all-beauty'
would one soon be repulsed by everything??
and where to go
from
there? back down the mountain?? [[please don't let me ask about
the
"burning bush" in this context, please don't let me ask, please...
<<laughing>>
Still
wish you would explain that Yahweh/Moses ---> back/shoulders
paradox. Maybe Yahweh was an ugly mofo, having a
badhair day, and just
decided
to be shy? somewhat kidding, but
curious <<answer via
>backchannel
if necessary>>
>
>>
Joseph Neudorfer
yours
truly, Douglas
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:35:58 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: <<Diane>>, di prima,
<<beauty>>
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<<at
work now>>
Diane
writ:
<<I
find you are keying in now on the Ginsberg everything is holy theme
>[[yes,
thank you]], but am I finding you still thinking Breton's "Beauty is
>repulsive,"
(not sexually), as you are reading/typing?
I'm most moved by the
>paradox
at
>the
end: "I leave you laying there. I
am intact..." It's all a paradox,
>Douglas,
beginning with your random selection of this patti smith. beauty
>is
a paradox, Babble, a paradox. As
Ginsberg would say, what is beauty
>but
a six letter word? Babble, but a six letter word. And only a stream
>of
archeytpal consciousness bringing it all here to this point where our
minds
meet.>>
ok. I'm
a big fan of the river. that much has
been proven. you could
turn
the faucet on and off, little or large all day long, as far as I
care. but words do have meanings. and I hate wasting water. can't
deny
that. words have meanings that change,
that must be tracked, that
can be
appropriated. [[yes, therein lies the
paradox. Can we follow it
for a
while?]]
what I
love about patti smith (especially her earlier work) is that she
rambles,
she brings in a beat train of thought.
In the work I quoted
(and
the lines you liked) she's taken the male point of view (possibly
Rimbaud's). taken it for a ride and seen what the
possibilities
provided
her. <<amazing>>
old
hag, middle aged hen, early cluck. all
the same some would say.
attitude
is everything.
<<perhaps>>
relativity does apply at a
certain
point. at the speed of light, I might
change into an old man,
flying
back from outer space; while you and yours remain the same.
<<einstein
proved that, yes?>> words may be
just a composite of
letters,
counted and mounted; but when words gain human attributes
(i.e.,
"nigger"), we must put our heads together on the wall, and
honestly
talk about what death and dying really mean.
the traces of
beauty
we find in the world, and yes indeed, if beauty is *truly*
repulsive. what would that mean? [[and I wonder how it *looks*,
surrealist
or not]]
I agree
words can be nothing/everything holy (as Ginsberg would
apparently
define), but I still must hold onto a societal view of
"beauty"
(and a few other choice words). beauty
needs to go for a ride
with me
for a while longer. this I must
see. [[oh..exhale..]] why is
it so
hard to give up words? they answer so
many questions.
"what are words for, when nobody
listens any more for
[....] there's no use talking
all..." [missing persons]
>DC
cheers,
Douglas
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 12:36:48 -0600
Reply-To: stand666@bitstream.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: R&R Houff
<stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>
Subject: Thanks / BENTZ
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Thanks
for the kind words and the feelings mutual. If I ever make it
out to
SC, I'll look you up. And try putting down the poetry. When
I first
started writing I borrowed Andre Breton's method of automatic
writing=97I
think Jack K called it spontaneous prose or whatever. He
must've
read Breton at some point; Celine, etc.
Richard
Houff
Pariah
Press
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:40:49 -0600
Reply-To: Denis Alcock
<dalcock@FALSTAFF.UNM.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Denis Alcock
<dalcock@FALSTAFF.UNM.EDU>
Subject: summer reading
In-Reply-To: <33B7FCC0.4354@bitstream.net>
Mime-Version:
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I vote
for Dr. Sax!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 12:47:58 -0600
Reply-To: stand666@bitstream.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: R&R Houff
<stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>
Subject: JAMES: FRISCO BOUND!
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Hey
James,
I knew
you'd dig the gig! I'll be playing unplugged with him
on July
11. I'll be using a vintage Circa 1937, Dobro and glass
slide-Luther
will play a Martin and fill in the lead. Unfortunately,
this
concert will probably take place in my living room. Luther loves
to fish
with me and his buddies=97we're both a couple of chicken and
fish
eating bastards!
Richard
Houff
Pariah
Press
P.S.
Glad you gotta chance to read the Pulse interview.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:52:15 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: Whitman
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<<still
digging>>
>From: Ksenija
Simic[SMTP:ksenija@GALOIS.MI.SANU.AC.YU]
>
>"Camarado,
>this
is not a book!
>Who
touches this, touches the man."
Note to
myself: explore book covers of
beats. first editions ---->
etc. As a visual artist, how is
"touching" presented. in soft
and hard
bind...
;-) and if you eat the book. lonely one night, alone in yer
room, [[devour it whole]] have you "communed"
with *The Man* as well???
Douglas <<obese in thought, thin on
restraint>>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 13:49:40 -0400
Reply-To: Greg Elwell <elwellg@VOICENET.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Greg Elwell
<elwellg@VOICENET.COM>
Subject: Goodbye (not forever)
Mime-Version:
1.0
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Hello,
I am
writing because I am leaving the list temporarily. About three weeks
to be
precise. I'm going to France and Italy,
and I won't be able to check
e-mail,
so I must unsubscribe. This list is a
lot of fun, and very
informational. I've learned a great deal by just reading
what other people
wrote. I hope that when I come back that there will
be some good
discussion
of literature, because I see that's what's brewing right now.
Anyway,
have fun while I'm away!
Greg
Elwell
elwellg@voicenet.com
Greg Elwell
elwellg@voicenet.com||elwellgr@hotmail.com
<http://www.voicenet.com/~elwellg>
--------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:03:46 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: the beat (en) horse/summer reading
update
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Marie
responded to Diane:
<<
>>gets
the most votes wins. James, start counting...I vote for Visions of
>>Cody.
>>DC
>@@@@@@@
>i'm
up for it. one of my favorites, and reads really well with cassady's
>the
first third, which tells frankly, and in my opinion, beautifully, of
his
early childhood on the street with father.
>>
Cool,
don't know this book (Visions of Cody) but from Marie's
description
[[early years, god, father, beauty, cassady, some guy named
>"frankly"]]
- sounds good to me. count my vote on
this one.
Can
someone via backchannel, please tell me how this relates to "On the
Road"? <<Chronologically, thematically,
etc...>>
>>
mc
Douglas <<and what does the @@@@ translate to?
curious...>>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 17:45:34 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: spare us
Holy
shit!!! Since when did a judge's ruling
allow confiscation... there's
certainly
no confiscation going on of hardcore porn, are the police within
their
rights to do this???? Ray Bradbury may
have been a prophet. [Thinking
of digging a huge hole in the basement,
installing shelves & putting my books
down
there under a hidden door.]
Thank
god I live in San Francisco...
Ciao,
Sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Greg Elwell
Sent: Monday, June 30, 1997 9:10 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: spare us
At
12:18 AM 6/30/97 -0500, Leo Jilk wrote:
>>Pamela
Beach Plymell wrote:
>>>
>>>
Throughout history Christians are not known for their reading of objective
>>>
literature.
>>>
C. Plymell
>>Hell
Charles, they don't read it, they burn it.
I often why I keep
>>hanging
on to this religion. I mean, ask what's
her name in Alexandria.
>>They
burned her library, killed all the gnostics, and flayed her to
>>death in public.
Thanks a lot for being literary.
Yeah, the
>>Christians
just don't, as an organization, like good literature do they.
>>I
hope my church never finds out that I think for myself. It is an
>>uneasy
truce at best.
>>
>Thinking
of holocaust, when they start burning books, people can't be far
>behind.
>-leo
>
>
I don't
know how much this is relating to the subject, but I just
read(couple
days ago) that In Oklahoma, a judge ruled a 1979 award winning
film
"obscene." Then, after the
ruling, law enforcement officials tracked
down
EVERY SINGLE copy of the film that they could get their hands on in
the state! One guy recalls sitting down to watch it,
and all of a sudden,
he
hears a knock on his door. Sure enough,
the police were waiting there,
because
they had gotten his name from a local video rental store, which
said
that he had rented it! Oh, the reason
the film was obscene was
because
it showed a minor partaking in some kind of sex act. The film
itself
dealt with the holocaust.
If they
can "take away" this film, they can definately take away _Naked
Lunch_(the
book).
ge elwellg@voicenet.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 17:47:24 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: the beat (en) horse/summer reading
update
I vote
for Desolation Angels, Dharma Bums or Big Sur... would love to do
this. Great idea Diane.
Ciao,
Sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Diane Carter
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 1997 11:43 PM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: the beat (en) horse/summer reading
update
>Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
>
now instead of reading about everyones personal reactions to or
>
negating of
>
god,
>
let's talk about the literature.
>
> i
just finished feat&loathing in Los vegas;
>
have started reading hell's angels
>
but then i was waylaid by bob kaufman: out of sheer delight, but i seem to
>
have misplaced him,
> so
its back on the harley for me
> mc
Can
some of us wildly grasp onto one Kerouac work, together, for the sake
of
discussion, and let comparisons/or lack
thereof, relate to whatever
other
writers we are reading at the moment?
I tend to have six books
going
at the same time. Start voting for
Kerouac, and which ever book
gets
the most votes wins. James, start counting...I vote for Visions of
Cody.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 17:51:28 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: FW: please read this and vote
Comments:
To: Stef <Ad_Libitum@msn.com>, HJW II <ArchibaldLeach@msn.com>,
Stuart Crosby
<BRAVES10@msn.com>, Ron Vassel <BlizzardKing@msn.com>,
Michael Riddle
<CENTERLINEDESIGN@msn.com>,
Cari Who ELSE????
<CittiGirl@msn.com>, db <Dee-Bee@msn.com>,
Homebrook <Homebrook@msn.com>,
Jason Tinling <JTinlng@msn.com>,
Joseph L <JoePlacebo@msn.com>,
Kevin Mathers <KEVMATH@msn.com>,
Kel Rayner <Manatbar@msn.com>,
the little people <MarmaladeSkies@msn.com>,
Kent <NoixDeGolf@msn.com>, Jim
B <PBRUEGEL@msn.com>,
Ask and I might tell you
<Peaceful-Warrior2@msn.com>,
R <ROcean@msn.com>, Blair
<Reepoo@msn.com>,
James Sims <SimbaJim@msn.com>,
Sharon <SopAndBass@msn.com>,
Tom Gummo <TGUMMO@msn.com>,
Life is a sick joke and I'm the
punchline <The_Boogey_Man@msn.com>,
rico <UNIR1@msn.com>, Mark
<Vox_Amicus@msn.com>,
"e.e. cummings"
<What-is_death@msn.com>,
Tanya Ceccatto
<_AngelBaby@msn.com>,
_Prometheus1
<_Prometheus1@msn.com>, S Johnson <doc11@msn.com>,
Drew Eskenazi
<drewesk@msn.com>, Robert Lear <king_lear1@msn.com>,
x <king_lear1@msn.com>, PAUL
KOLJESKI <koljeski@msn.com>,
Silver Surfer
<mad-chatter@msn.com>, david simoni <oak123@msn.com>,
Kash Philips
<philkash@msn.com>,
anthony osborne
<rastafarian@msn.com>,
Rico Mariani
<ricom_ms@msn.com>, Robert Eback <rleback@msn.com>,
Stephen Baldwin <sabaldwin@msn.com>, anniepoo
<annh@ccrtc.com>,
BigDaddyRico
<Engelsguy@aol.com>, Don Green <NYCDBG@aol.com>,
cj <sjohn111@aol.com>, Kent
Smedley <Kent.Smedley@clorox.com>,
THEBODYIS1@aol.com
This is
important, please take the time.
Ciao,
Sherri
----------
From: Jamey Sims
Sent: Monday, June 30, 1997 9:48 AM
To: 'sherry'; 'Dave'; 'jota'; 'Jacky';
'Sherri'; 'Stella'; 'Jennifer';
'Ralph';
'David Lang'; 'boyeeeeeee'; 'Suzie & Robert'; 'Gary'; 'The Lang
Gang';
'Brandon Wescott'; 'kevey'; 'Dr Cowan'; 'Renee'; 'bogie'; 'Tammy';
'Shari
& Troy'; 'Yvonne'
Subject: FW: please read this and vote
do this
please
--Jamey
----------
From: Marrow
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 1997 3:35 PM
To: Jamey Sims
Subject: please read this and vote
>From:
Marrow <mychajlo@pop.fast.net>
>Subject:
please read this and vote
>
>>From:
J_DRUCK@prodigy.com (MR JEFFREY L DRUCKENMILLER)
>>Date:
Thu, 26 Jun 1997 07:39:12, -0500
>>To:
rrjwalz@integrityonline.com, mychajlo@fast.net
>>Subject:
please read this and vote
>>
>>for
your interest
>>
>>
>>
>><<
Start of Forwarded message via Prodigy Mail >>
>>
>>From: (Warshie) DIANNE WARSHAVER
>>Subject: please read this and vote
>>Date: 06/20
>>Time: 07:28 PM
>>
>>so,
we are never safe from crazies.....
>>
>>
>><<
Start of Forwarded message via Prodigy Mail >>
>>
>>From: David Blum
>>Subject: please read this and vote
>>Date: 06/20
>>Time: 06:55 PM
>>
>>Return-Path:
<davmark@mindspring.com>
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>> for <Warshie@prodigy.com>; Fri, 20
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>>Message-ID:
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>>Date:
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>>From:
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1.0
>>To:
"artworks@concentric.net" <artworks@concentric.net>,
>> "CHFriend@aol.com"
<CHFriend@aol.com>,
>> "joshperi@netvision.net.il"
<joshperi@netvision.net.il>,
>> MS DIANNE L WARSHAVER
<Warshie@prodigy.com>,
>> Sarah Barnett
<phibarn@scisun.sci.ccny.cuny.edu>,
>> Steve Zuckerman
<szucker@isd.net>,
>> "Susan E. Ranney"
<sranney@azstarnet.com>,
>> Suzie Dennis Ben David
<marketingedge@msn.com>,
>> "zin@juno.com"
<zin@juno.com>
>>Subject:
please read this and vote
>>Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>>
>>>Forwarded
message:
>>>Subj: No Subject
>>>Date: 97-06-06 03:17:09 EDT
>>>From: Jonapangai
>>>To: CampNicole
>>>
>>>We
have understood that a few Neo-Nazi groups are trying to create
>>>(again)
a usenet group where they want to keep in contact
>>>with
each other regarding their activities. I believe it is not
>>>necessary
to dwell further on these activities.
>>>
>>>The
group is rec.music.white-power
>>>
>>>To
create such a group, they have to win a referendum that is
>>>always
organised when a new usenet group is created.
>>>All
persons with an email address, and only those, can vote
>>>in
this referendum.
>>>
>>>It
is IMPORTANT to vote only once, otherwise the vote is
>>>cancelled.
>>>
>>>To
prevent the creation of this group, you have to:
>>>
>>> 1. Send this message to people you know
>>>
>>> 2. Send an email to the following address:
>>>
>>> music-vote@sub-rosa.com
>>>
>>> 3. In the body of your message (not in the
'subject' line)
>>> include EXACTLY and ONLY the following
line:
>>>
>>> I vote NO on rec.music.white-power
>>>
>>>Since
the vote is automatic, it is IMPORTANT to send the
>>>exact
line as it is given above, without adding anything, not even
>>a
>>>name.
>>>And
please send it only once or it becomes invalid ! Also,
>>>
>>>PLEASE FORWARD
>>>THIS
LETTER TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW WITH AN E-MAIL ADDRESS TO
>>>PREVENT
THE GROUP FOUNDERS FROM CREATING THIS GROUP.
>>>
>>>*********************************************
>>>
Israel Rubinstein
>>>
Professor of Chemistry
>>>
Department of Materials and Interfaces
>>>The
Weizmann Institute of Science
>>>
Rehovot 76100, Israel
>>>Phone:
+972 8 9342678 Fax: +972 8 9344137
>>>
E-mail: cprubin@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il
>>>http://www.weizmann.ac.il/weg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Gerardo
(Jerry) Rogoff
>>Field
Applications Engineer
>>Exar
Corporation
>>500
Clark Rd.
>>Tewksbury,
MA 01876
>>
>>Tel.: (508) 640-8899
>>FAX: (508) 640-6926
>>Pager:
(800) 943-4064
>>
>>email:
jerry.rogoff@exar.com
>>Visit
our Website @: http://www.exar.com
>>
>>
>><<
End of Forwarded message >>
>>
>><Distribution
List>
>> (FJHE36A), J DRUCKENMILLER
>> (TVSG32A), STEVE BOGUS
>>
>>
>><<
End of Forwarded message >>
>>
>>
Sincerely,
Michael
T. Montgomery
mychajlo@fast.net
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:48:47 -0400
Reply-To: MATT HANNAN
<MATT.HANNAN@OTC.USOC.CCHUB.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MATT HANNAN
<MATT.HANNAN@OTC.USOC.CCHUB.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: the beat (en) horse/summer
reading update
Mime-Version:
1.0
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>Can
some of us wildly grasp onto one Kerouac work, together, for the sake
>of
discussion, and let comparisons/or lack
thereof, relate to whatever
>other
writers we are reading at the moment?
I tend to have six books
>going
at the same time. Start voting for
Kerouac, and which ever book
>gets
the most votes wins. James, start counting...I vote for Visions of
>Cody.
>DC
VOC is fine with me (no lazy poetics intended)
but we must do a rehash
as we approach the 40th of OTR at the end
of the summer.
matt
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 14:25:08 -0400
Reply-To: Greg Elwell <elwellg@VOICENET.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Greg Elwell
<elwellg@VOICENET.COM>
Subject: Re: spare us
Comments:
To: Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sherri,
I found
an on-line archive of my local newspaper where I read the article.
It was
in The Philadelphia Inquirer. Here's
the URL:
http://www2.phillynews.com/inquirer/97/Jun/28/national/DRUM28.htm
Now,
you can read this insanity for yourself
At
05:45 PM 6/30/97 UT, you wrote:
>Holy
shit!!! Since when did a judge's ruling
allow confiscation... there's
>certainly
no confiscation going on of hardcore porn, are the police within
>their
rights to do this???? Ray Bradbury may
have been a prophet. [Thinking
>of digging a huge hole in the basement,
installing shelves & putting my
books
>down
there under a hidden door.]
>
>Thank
god I live in San Francisco...
>
>Ciao,
>Sherri
>
>----------
>From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Greg Elwell
>Sent: Monday, June 30, 1997 9:10 AM
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Subject: Re: spare us
>
>At
12:18 AM 6/30/97 -0500, Leo Jilk wrote:
>>>Pamela
Beach Plymell wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
Throughout history Christians are not known for their reading of
objective
>>>>
literature.
>>>>
C. Plymell
>>>Hell
Charles, they don't read it, they burn it.
I often why I keep
>>>hanging
on to this religion. I mean, ask what's
her name in Alexandria.
>>>They
burned her library, killed all the gnostics, and flayed her to
>>>death in public.
Thanks a lot for being literary.
Yeah, the
>>>Christians
just don't, as an organization, like good literature do they.
>>>I
hope my church never finds out that I think for myself. It is an
>>>uneasy
truce at best.
>>>
>>Thinking
of holocaust, when they start burning books, people can't be far
>>behind.
>>-leo
>>
>>
>I
don't know how much this is relating to the subject, but I just
>read(couple
days ago) that In Oklahoma, a judge ruled a 1979 award winning
>film
"obscene." Then, after the
ruling, law enforcement officials tracked
>down
EVERY SINGLE copy of the film that they could get their hands on in
>the
state! One guy recalls sitting down to
watch it, and all of a sudden,
>he
hears a knock on his door. Sure enough,
the police were waiting there,
>because
they had gotten his name from a local video rental store, which
>said
that he had rented it! Oh, the reason
the film was obscene was
>because
it showed a minor partaking in some kind of sex act. The film
>itself
dealt with the holocaust.
>
>If
they can "take away" this film, they can definately take away _Naked
>Lunch_(the
book).
>
>
>ge elwellg@voicenet.com
>
>
Greg Elwell
elwellg@voicenet.com||elwellgr@hotmail.com
<http://www.voicenet.com/~elwellg>
--------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 14:31:17 -0400
Reply-To: Ddrooy@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Don't shoot the messenger
MIME-Version:
1.0
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This is my first post to the list,
although I've been off and on in
various
incarnations for the last six months. I've been hoping to learn
something
from the subscribers, and I have.
I've also seen that the list offers a
forum for people to express th=
eir
opinions,
as well as their anger, and to advance agendas, whether factual=
ly
or in a
way designed to manipulate with emotions.
I'm a writer who lives in Seattle, and my
credentials include
freelancing
for NPR as well as numerous print publications. I have a long
association
with jack, going back to the summer of Woodstock, when I turn=
ed
18 and
read On The Road and contemplated grabbing my rucksack and running=
off
with
the lonesome traveler who'd given me the book and taken my virginity=
(a
fair
swap, I must say).
The Road, for me, for the last near-30
years, has been as straight a=
s a
corkscrew,
but jack was always there somewhere. Someday I'll tell that st=
ory.
Right
now, I have something more important to say.
In the passionate environment that
surrounds all things Beat and
people's
personal connections to them, and especially, to jack himself, a=
ll
of us
who have come after the fact (not folks like Leon and Charles) seem=
to
have
staked claims and established turf.=20
As principal characters in the kerouac
saga burned bright and then
burned
out, issues began to surface. The issue that has become the most
addressable
is that one which was heatedly discussed here a month or so a=
go:
the
*preservation* of jack's archives. It is part of that issue I wish to
address,
with new information I acquired through research.
I've been in touch with people who could
only be described as second=
ary
to the
life of jack kerouac, asking questions and assembling a feature st=
ory.
There
are also many people I have not met or interviewed. But two of the
people
I have interviewed by phone and through thousands of words in lett=
ers
are Rod
Anstee and Gerry Nicosia. I had the opportunity to form opinions
about
both these men independently, since I did not know, at first, their
history
with one another. Because of their individual credentials, and as=
I
learned
the history they'd shared, determining reliability from either of
them
(as sources for news or feature stories on archive or Estate issues)=
was
essential
to writing the most accurate possible account.
Rod posted a letter to this list
regarding the contents of Gerry's U=
Mass
archives,
and I observed the claims and reactions that followed, without
comment.
I was sad and upset, as I think most of us were, to witness the
conflict.=20
After Rod voluntarily signed off the list
and the rest of the confli=
ct
played
itself out, I called Martha Mayo at UMass, for the specific purpos=
e of
verifying
a) what Rod had claimed and b) what Gerry had claimed. Here are
some of
my notes from that interview, for your edification:
***Martha
Mayo interview, 1:40 to 1:48pm PDT, 17 June 1997 (Mogan Center,
UMass
Lowell, 508/934-4997)****
I gave my name and location, said I was a
writer, said I was traveli=
ng
east
later this year and wondered about my chances for seeing the Memory =
Babe
(MB)
collection.
"It's an open collection. Anyone can
view it," Mayo said. "It carrie=
s
with it
some standard restrictions. But the major restriction is that let=
ters
from
authors cannot be photocopied, because they are copyrighted material=
s,
copyrighted
by the Estate.
"No photocopying is allowed of any
of Kerouac's letters, because man=
y of
them
are photocopies that came from other collections, and there are
copyright
issues.=20
"There is nothing original in this
collection," she said. "These are
research
notes gathered from many sources."
She said they're very understaffed right
now because school's out fo=
r
the
summer, but that there is always someone available from 9am to 5pm,
Monday
through Friday, to assist people who want to see the collection. S=
he
said
people aren't really using it that much, but that someone had recent=
ly
come to
town and spent time viewing the collection. "Just make an appoint=
ment
3 or 4
days in advance, letting us know when you'll be here."
So, according to Martha Mayo a) the MB
collection is not closed; b) =
the
MB
collection contains photocopies from other collections; c) anyone who =
asks
permission
can see the collection; d) the collection is composed of
photocopies
only; and e) no one is allowed to photocopy these photocopies.
In short, Rod Anstee is right about the
MB collection and what=92s i=
n it.
I invite you to check these facts on your
own. If anyone in the Lowe=
ll
area
could actually walk in and test this, that would be best.
My point is this: when anyone claims
anything, especially in matters
that
are so potentially inflammatory as this one is, verify the facts, if
there
are any. There=92s no need to become personally involved or defensi=
ve
about
facts.
One last note about threats of litigation
regarding libel, slander a=
nd
copyright
infringement: read the Associated Press Stylebook and Libel Man=
ual
for a
broad overview of these legal terms and their ramifications. Truth =
is
always
a legitimate defense.
The rest of the information I=92ve
gathered over the last few months=
will
be
submitted for publication to various markets. I will post a notice of =
any
impending
publication to this list.=20
Diane
De Rooy
ddrooy@aol.com
membabe@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 13:20:56 -0500
Reply-To: Peyote Coyote
<peyotecoyote@IAH.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Peyote Coyote
<peyotecoyote@IAH.COM>
Subject: summer reading and a welcome
MIME-Version:
1.0
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Hi. I'm new to the list. My name is Joey Mellott, but you can call me
Peyote
Coyote, a random name I thought up while reading a piece by Artaud.
I will
be a senior in HS in August. I've read
On the Road and Naked
Lunch,
and am now reading Desolation Angels, with plans to read Dr. Sax,
Tristessa,
and/or the Soft Machine by the end of summer.
I became
intrested
in the Beats when a friend suggested I do my US History term
paper
on Jack Kerouac. Thirteen pages and an
A+ later, I'm hooked.
Suggestions
are welcome.
My
vote: Desolation Angels. It's superduperific.
Joey
Mellott : poet, writer, and word shaman
(peyotecoyote@iah.com)
"the
socerers enter the ring, and the dancer with the six hundred little
bells
(300 of horn, 300 of silver) shrieks his coyote call in the forest."
-
Antonin Artaud
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 18:32:31 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: <<Diane>>, di prima,
<<beauty>>
douglas,
i think that einstein proved that time essentially stands still at
the
speed of light... am i mistaken?
at home
with the flu...
Sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Penn, Douglas, K
Sent: Monday, June 30, 1997 10:35 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: <<Diane>>, di prima,
<<beauty>>
<<at
work now>>
<<old
hag, middle aged hen, early cluck. all
the same some would say.
attitude
is everything.
<<perhaps>>
relativity does apply at a
certain
point. at the speed of light, I might
change into an old man,
flying
back from outer space; while you and yours remain the same.
<<einstein
proved that, yes?>> words may be
just a composite of
letters,
counted and mounted; but when words gain human attributes
(i.e.,
"nigger"), we must put our heads together on the wall, and
honestly
talk about what death and dying really mean.
the traces of
beauty
we find in the world, and yes indeed, if beauty is *truly*
repulsive. what would that mean? [[and I wonder how it *looks*,
surrealist
or not]]
I agree
words can be nothing/everything holy (as Ginsberg would
apparently
define), but I still must hold onto a societal view of
"beauty"
(and a few other choice words). beauty
needs to go for a ride
with me
for a while longer. this I must
see. [[oh..exhale..]] why is
it so
hard to give up words? they answer so
many questions.
"what are words for, when nobody
listens any more for
[....] there's no use talking
all..." [missing persons]
>DC
cheers,
Douglas>>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 13:05:10 -0400
Reply-To: MATT HANNAN
<MATT.HANNAN@OTC.USOC.CCHUB.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MATT HANNAN
<MATT.HANNAN@OTC.USOC.CCHUB.COM>
Subject: Re: Don't shoot the messenger
Comments:
To: Ddrooy@AOL.COM
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Ddrooy@AOL.COM writ:
>As principal characters in the
kerouac saga burned bright and then
>burned out
Who burned out?
Of the "big 5" (my definition)
Jack died young (wrote until his
death--albeit for a girly mag), Cassady
died young (flipped hammers
until his death...ok, but he did write),
Ginsberg wrote until his
death (and may still be writing),
Burroughs is still writing (and may
be preserved enough never to die), Snyder
(in my big 5 because he was
major character and subject) is still
writing (wonderfully, and giving
great lectures).
After that...who? Ferlinghetti (still going (thump, thump,
thump))
Hunke (wrote pretty much until death),
Corso? Whalen? We're running
out of names........(not really)
The early Beats aren't dead,they're just
resting.
matt
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 18:40:32 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: the beat (en) horse/summer
reading update
i agree
matt... hope i won't be outta the country for that
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
MATT HANNAN
Sent: Monday, June 30, 1997 7:48 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re[2]: the beat (en) horse/summer
reading update
>Can
some of us wildly grasp onto one Kerouac work, together, for the sake
>of
discussion, and let comparisons/or lack
thereof, relate to whatever
>other
writers we are reading at the moment?
I tend to have six books
>going
at the same time. Start voting for
Kerouac, and which ever book
>gets
the most votes wins. James, start counting...I vote for Visions of
>Cody.
>DC
VOC is fine with me (no lazy poetics
intended) but we must do a rehash
as we approach the 40th of OTR at the end
of the summer.
matt
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 23:15:15 +0200
Reply-To: Ksenija Simic
<ksenija@GALOIS.MI.SANU.AC.YU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ksenija Simic
<ksenija@GALOIS.MI.SANU.AC.YU>
Subject: my vote
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
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dharma
bums.
ksenija
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 16:07:30 -0500
Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sinverg=FCenza?=
<ljilk@MAIL.MPS.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sinverg=FCenza?=
<ljilk@MAIL.MPS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Whitman
In-Reply-To:
<c=US%a=_%p=OEES%l=SD-MAIL-970630175215Z-5828@sd-mail.sd.oees.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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Douglas
wrote:
><<still
digging>>
>
>>From: Ksenija
Simic[SMTP:ksenija@GALOIS.MI.SANU.AC.YU]
>>
>>"Camarado,
>>this
is not a book!
>>Who
touches this, touches the man."
>
>Note
to myself: explore book covers of
beats. first editions ---->
>etc. As a visual artist, how is
"touching" presented. in soft
and hard
>bind...
;-) and if you eat the book. lonely one night, alone in yer
>room, [[devour it whole]] have you
"communed" with *The Man* as well???
>
>Douglas <<obese in thought, thin on
restraint>>
I
thought I could only be a
writer
if I pushed a book against
my lips
until i bled.
=46unny
thought.
I
dented my lip and tasted the
book,
but I didn't bleed.
-leo
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 23:20:52 +0200
Reply-To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Be At Home.
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
BE AT HOME!
it is near
a summer evening
lavender flowers
in the garden
i'm afraid! i'm afraid!
at
sunset
honey bees
they worked
at
the end of a day
i'm afraid! i'm afraid!
be at home!
why are you afraid
by the bees?
they yield honey!
do you like the honey?
without bees nothing honey
do you like the honey?
I DONT' LIKE HONEy!
I DONT' LINE HONEY!
I DONT' LIKE HONEy!
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
* a bee beaten *
www.gpnet.it/rasa/home.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 16:37:59 -0500
Reply-To: chizam@TRACE.IE.WISC.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zach Chisholm
<chizam@TRACE.IE.WISC.EDU>
Subject: self proclaimed poet
I am a
self proclaimed poet
relatively
new to beat-l
thought
I'd promote
my site
of poetry
(http://trace.ie.wisc.edu/chizam)
I'm a
19 year old male
living
in Wisconsin
(when
I'm not out traveling)
no
formal teaching
have I
recived
in the
area of writing
but I
enjoy it
I'm no
Kerouac, Ginsberg, or Whitman
I'm
just me writing
my
opinions
my
thoughts
my
experiences
on
paper and in computers
If you
would
go and
read my work
email
me what you think
I'll
keep on writing
because
all in all
it is
just for me
Zach
Chisholm
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 23:40:12 +0200
Reply-To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: No Nazi On The Net was (Re: FW: please
read this and vote)
Comments:
cc: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
In-Reply-To: <UPMAIL14.199706301808480644@msn.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
17.51 30/06/97 UT, you wrote:
>This
is important, please take the time.
>Ciao,
Sherri
>
>----------
>From: Jamey Sims
>Sent: Monday, June 30, 1997 9:48 AM
>To: 'sherry'; 'Dave'; 'jota'; 'Jacky';
'Sherri'; 'Stella'; 'Jennifer';
>'Ralph';
'David Lang'; 'boyeeeeeee'; 'Suzie & Robert'; 'Gary'; 'The Lang
>Gang';
'Brandon Wescott'; 'kevey'; 'Dr Cowan'; 'Renee'; 'bogie'; 'Tammy';
>'Shari
& Troy'; 'Yvonne'
>Subject: FW: please read this and vote
>
>do
this please
>--Jamey
>
>----------
>From: Marrow
>Sent: Saturday, June 28, 1997 3:35 PM
>To: Jamey Sims
>Subject: please read this and vote
>
>
>
>>From:
Marrow <mychajlo@pop.fast.net>
>>Subject:
please read this and vote
>>
>>>From:
J_DRUCK@prodigy.com (MR JEFFREY L DRUCKENMILLER)
>>>Date:
Thu, 26 Jun 1997 07:39:12, -0500
>>>To:
rrjwalz@integrityonline.com, mychajlo@fast.net
>>>Subject:
please read this and vote
>>>
>>>for
your interest
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>><<
Start of Forwarded message via Prodigy Mail >>
>>>
>>>From: (Warshie) DIANNE WARSHAVER
>>>Subject: please read this and vote
>>>Date: 06/20
>>>Time: 07:28 PM
>>>
>>>so,
we are never safe from crazies.....
>>>
>>>
>>><<
Start of Forwarded message via Prodigy Mail >>
>>>
>>>From: David Blum
>>>Subject: please read this and vote
>>>Date: 06/20
>>>Time: 06:55 PM
>>>
>>>Return-Path:
<davmark@mindspring.com>
>>>Received:
from brickbat8.mindspring.com (brickbat8.mindspring.com
>>>[207.69.200.11])
>>> by pimaia1w.prodigy.com (8.8.5/8.8.5)
with ESMTP id SAA106760
>>> for <Warshie@prodigy.com>; Fri, 20
Jun 1997 18:56:48 -0400
>>>Received:
from 38.26.20.135 (ip135.an9-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net
>>>[38.26.20.135])
>>> by brickbat8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5)
with SMTP id SAA03646;
>>> Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:55:11 -0400 (EDT)
>>>Message-ID:
<33AAC4FA.42EF@mindspring.com>
>>>Date:
Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:59:22 +0100
>>>From:
David Blum <davmark@mindspring.com>
>>>Reply-To:
davmark@mindspring.com
>>>X-Mailer:
Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; U; 68K)
>>>MIME-Version:
1.0
>>>To:
"artworks@concentric.net" <artworks@concentric.net>,
>>> "CHFriend@aol.com"
<CHFriend@aol.com>,
>>> "joshperi@netvision.net.il"
<joshperi@netvision.net.il>,
>>> MS DIANNE L WARSHAVER <Warshie@prodigy.com>,
>>> Sarah Barnett
<phibarn@scisun.sci.ccny.cuny.edu>,
>>> Steve Zuckerman
<szucker@isd.net>,
>>> "Susan E. Ranney"
<sranney@azstarnet.com>,
>>> Suzie Dennis Ben David <marketingedge@msn.com>,
>>> "zin@juno.com"
<zin@juno.com>
>>>Subject:
please read this and vote
>>>Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>>Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>>>
>>>>Forwarded
message:
>>>>Subj: No Subject
>>>>Date: 97-06-06 03:17:09 EDT
>>>>From: Jonapangai
>>>>To: CampNicole
>>>>
>>>>We
have understood that a few Neo-Nazi groups are trying to create
>>>>(again)
a usenet group where they want to keep in contact
>>>>with
each other regarding their activities. I believe it is not
>>>>necessary
to dwell further on these activities.
>>>>
>>>>The
group is rec.music.white-power
>>>>
>>>>To
create such a group, they have to win a referendum that is
>>>>always
organised when a new usenet group is created.
>>>>All
persons with an email address, and only those, can vote
>>>>in
this referendum.
>>>>
>>>>It
is IMPORTANT to vote only once, otherwise the vote is
>>>>cancelled.
>>>>
>>>>To
prevent the creation of this group, you have to:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Send this message to people you know
>>>>
>>>> 2. Send an email to the following address:
>>>>
>>>> music-vote@sub-rosa.com
>>>>
>>>> 3. In the body of your message (not in the
'subject' line)
>>>> include EXACTLY and ONLY the following
line:
>>>>
>>>> I vote NO on rec.music.white-power
>>>>
>>>>Since
the vote is automatic, it is IMPORTANT to send the
>>>>exact
line as it is given above, without adding anything, not even
>>>a
>>>>name.
>>>>And
please send it only once or it becomes invalid ! Also,
>>>>
>>>>PLEASE FORWARD
>>>>THIS
LETTER TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW WITH AN E-MAIL ADDRESS TO
>>>>PREVENT
THE GROUP FOUNDERS FROM CREATING THIS GROUP.
>>>>
>>>>*********************************************
>>>>
Israel Rubinstein
>>>>
Professor of Chemistry
>>>>
Department of Materials and Interfaces
>>>>The
Weizmann Institute of Science
>>>>
Rehovot 76100, Israel
>>>>Phone:
+972 8 9342678 Fax: +972 8 9344137
>>>>
E-mail: cprubin@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il
>>>>http://www.weizmann.ac.il/weg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Gerardo
(Jerry) Rogoff
>>>Field
Applications Engineer
>>>Exar
Corporation
>>>500
Clark Rd.
>>>Tewksbury,
MA 01876
>>>
>>>Tel.: (508) 640-8899
>>>FAX: (508) 640-6926
>>>Pager:
(800) 943-4064
>>>
>>>email:
jerry.rogoff@exar.com
>>>Visit
our Website @: http://www.exar.com
>>>
>>>
>>><<
End of Forwarded message >>
>>>
>>><Distribution
List>
>>> (FJHE36A), J DRUCKENMILLER
>>> (TVSG32A), STEVE BOGUS
>>>
>>>
>>><<
End of Forwarded message >>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>Sincerely,
>Michael
T. Montgomery
>mychajlo@fast.net
>
>
Sherri,
i agree
with yr fwd message, i have already posted likes
message
in march 97 & now i dont' know if nazi are attempting
to
re-vote 'bout this NG, if this the case, please send yr
fresh
informaion, 'cuz i was pointed (in march 97) that the
vote
was over & the nazi NG spin off the Usenet... but time
perhaps
are a changin',
ciao e
tanti saluti da
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 23:45:08 +0200
Reply-To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: self proclaimed poet
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>From: Zach Chisholm
<chizam@TRACE.IE.WISC.EDU>
>Subject: self proclaimed poet
>
>I
am a self proclaimed poet
>relatively
new to beat-l
>thought
I'd promote
>my
site of poetry
>(http://trace.ie.wisc.edu/chizam)
>I'm
a 19 year old male
>living
in Wisconsin
>(when
I'm not out traveling)
>no
formal teaching
>have
I recived
>in
the area of writing
>but
I enjoy it
>I'm
no Kerouac, Ginsberg, or Whitman
>I'm
just me writing
>my
opinions
>my
thoughts
>my
experiences
>on
paper and in computers
>If
you would
>go
and read my work
>email
me what you think
>I'll
keep on writing
>because
all in all
>it
is just for me
>
>Zach
Chisholm
>
>
zach,
nice performance! self proclaimed poet RIGHT ON!
if u
Like my opinion!
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 17:50:42 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: Re: Don't shoot the messenger
Comments:
To: Ddrooy@AOL.COM
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
8bit
Diane
De Rooy wrote:
>
> This is my first post to the list,
although I've been off and on in
>
various incarnations for the last six months. I've been hoping to learn
>
something from the subscribers, and I have.
> I've also seen that the list offers a
forum for people to express their
>
opinions, as well as their anger, and to advance agendas, whether factually
> or
in a way designed to manipulate with emotions.
> I'm a writer who lives in Seattle, and
my credentials include
>
freelancing for NPR as well as numerous print publications. I have a long
>
association with jack, going back to the summer of Woodstock, when I turned
> 18
and read On The Road and contemplated grabbing my rucksack and running off
>
with the lonesome traveler who'd given me the book and taken my virginity (a
>
fair swap, I must say).
> The Road, for me, for the last near-30
years, has been as straight as a
>
corkscrew, but jack was always there somewhere. Someday I'll tell that story.
>
Right now, I have something more important to say.
> In the passionate environment that
surrounds all things Beat and
>
people's personal connections to them, and especially, to jack himself, all
> of
us who have come after the fact (not folks like Leon and Charles) seem to
>
have staked claims and established turf.
> As principal characters in the kerouac
saga burned bright and then
>
burned out, issues began to surface. The issue that has become the most
>
addressable is that one which was heatedly discussed here a month or so ago:
>
the *preservation* of jack's archives. It is part of that issue I wish to
>
address, with new information I acquired through research.
> I've been in touch with people who could
only be described as secondary
> to
the life of jack kerouac, asking questions and assembling a feature story.
>
There are also many people I have not met or interviewed. But two of the
>
people I have interviewed by phone and through thousands of words in letters
>
are Rod Anstee and Gerry Nicosia. I had the opportunity to form opinions
>
about both these men independently, since I did not know, at first, their
>
history with one another. Because of their individual credentials, and as I
>
learned the history they'd shared, determining reliability from either of
>
them (as sources for news or feature stories on archive or Estate issues) was
>
essential to writing the most accurate possible account.
> Rod posted a letter to this list
regarding the contents of Gerry's UMass
>
archives, and I observed the claims and reactions that followed, without
>
comment. I was sad and upset, as I think most of us were, to witness the
>
conflict.
> After Rod voluntarily signed off the
list and the rest of the conflict
>
played itself out, I called Martha Mayo at UMass, for the specific purpose of
>
verifying a) what Rod had claimed and b) what Gerry had claimed. Here are
>
some of my notes from that interview, for your edification:
>
>
***Martha Mayo interview, 1:40 to 1:48pm PDT, 17 June 1997 (Mogan Center,
>
UMass Lowell, 508/934-4997)****
>
> I gave my name and location, said I was
a writer, said I was traveling
>
east later this year and wondered about my chances for seeing the Memory Babe
>
(MB) collection.
> "It's an open collection. Anyone
can view it," Mayo said. "It carries
>
with it some standard restrictions. But the major restriction is that letters
>
from authors cannot be photocopied, because they are copyrighted materials,
>
copyrighted by the Estate.
> "No photocopying is allowed of any
of Kerouac's letters, because many of
>
them are photocopies that came from other collections, and there are
>
copyright issues.
> "There is nothing original in this
collection," she said. "These are
>
research notes gathered from many sources."
> She said they're very understaffed right
now because school's out for
>
the summer, but that there is always someone available from 9am to 5pm,
>
Monday through Friday, to assist people who want to see the collection. She
>
said people aren't really using it that much, but that someone had recently
>
come to town and spent time viewing the collection. "Just make an appointment
> 3
or 4 days in advance, letting us know when you'll be here."
> So, according to Martha Mayo a) the MB
collection is not closed; b) the
> MB
collection contains photocopies from other collections; c) anyone who asks
>
permission can see the collection; d) the collection is composed of
>
photocopies only; and e) no one is allowed to photocopy these photocopies.
> In short, Rod Anstee is right about the
MB collection and what s in it.
> I invite you to check these facts on your
own. If anyone in the Lowell
>
area could actually walk in and test this, that would be best.
> My point is this: when anyone claims
anything, especially in matters
>
that are so potentially inflammatory as this one is, verify the facts, if
>
there are any. There s no need to become personally involved or defensive
>
about facts.
> One last note about threats of
litigation regarding libel, slander and
>
copyright infringement: read the Associated Press Stylebook and Libel Manual
>
for a broad overview of these legal terms and their ramifications. Truth is
>
always a legitimate defense.
> The rest of the information I ve
gathered over the last few months will
> be
submitted for publication to various markets. I will post a notice of any
>
impending publication to this list.
>
>
Diane De Rooy
>
ddrooy@aol.com
>
membabe@aol.com
Well, I
see that this ugly beast raises its head again. I am in the
process
of preparing a contract to represent Gerry N. with regard to
certain
matters involving the collection.
Therefore, I do not wish to
comment
many of the matters raised in this post, except to say, I note
that
the author did not actually go and obtain access to the archives.
Also, I
understand that the photocopies of letters contain Gerry's
notes. They are not photocopies from other
libraries, but from the
owner
of the letter, ie, perhaps Allen Ginsburg, etc. It is true that
you can
make fair use of a letter, but you may not photocopy it unless
the
library owns the original. Thus, if
Allen gave a letter to Lowell,
and
Gerry had written notes on it, you could photocopy it. But without
the
original, the library can not let you copy it.
I also
will note to the list that Martha Mayo did not respond to my
inquiry
about the origin of the copies in the file.
Further, I have
copies
of letters from scholars claiming that Martha Mayo denied them
access
to the archives because of threats by third parties. So, I do
not
believe that this post and an telephone conversation with Martha
Mayo is
sufficient to draw any conclusion such that Rod is right and
Gerry
is wrong.
It also
is worthy to note that UMass at Lowell has mixed in with Gerry's
archives
other documents. So, the fact that a
document is in the
archives
does not mean that it was placed there by Gerry. Paul Marion,
and
perhaps others have placed materials in the library.
These
are objective facts, not my opinon.
Martha Mayo is correct to say
that
photocopying of documents that they do not own the orginals of is
not
permitted. She is incorrect to say that
permission of the author is
required
to allow the copying of letters. It is
ownership of the
document
that controls that issue.
I also
note with interest that this post appears almost a day or two
after
Gerry signed off the list. Diane, do
you have any affiliation
with
Antsee, Chaput, Sampas etc.? I know
that there have been some
other
developments in that arena lately, so I wonder about your timing.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 17:15:28 -0500
Reply-To: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: fear and loathing
Content-Type:
text
the
current (June/July 1997) issue of Facets Features, an update
published
by Facets Multimedia has the following entry:
"Johnny
Depp will star in _Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas_, which is
based
on Hunter S. Thompson's novel and will be directed by Alex
Cox
(_Sid and Nancy_)."
Whaddya
think of that!
Cordially,
Mike
Skau
6/30/97
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 18:28:21 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: suspicious, but perhaps unfounded.
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Has
anyone on the list ever heard of Diane De Rooy. I ran a 411 search
and
turned up nothing. I ran one on my
email address and got me. So, I
am very
curious about this. I know that there
have been phantom posts
from
aol before and that Jerry C. smoked some of those out. If Diane is
a real
person, I apologize to her, but this post seems very suspicious
and the
timing makes it even more so. I
apologize, for an off topic
post.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:38:22 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: No Nazi On The Net was (Re: FW:
please read this and vote)
Rinaldo
wrote:
Sherri,
i agree
with yr fwd message, i have already posted likes
message
in march 97 & now i dont' know if nazi are attempting
to
re-vote 'bout this NG, if this the case, please send yr
fresh
informaion, 'cuz i was pointed (in march 97) that the
vote
was over & the nazi NG spin off the Usenet... but time
perhaps
are a changin',
ciao e
tanti saluti da
Rinaldo.
Buona
sera Rinaldo...
Thanks...
don't vote again. Someone on this beat-l
list has informed me that
the
thing is "legendary"... which I
took to
mean.. not real. He also pointed out
something that had troubled me
when I
sent it... I wholeheartedly reject
censorship... but i have a real big
problem
with organized hate.
Where
do we draw the line? This is is
definitely a literary issue. I think I
already
have my personal answer, but would like to know from any and all of
you if
you think there is ever a time when a group's ideology can be
considered
harmful enough to humankind that its "propaganda" should be held
somewhat
in check, not stifled or thwarted... maybe minimized. I even ask
this
question in trepidation because the notion of anyone's self expression
being
limited really sticks in my craw. Yet still....
Ciao,
mi amici,
Sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:47:35 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: fear and loathing
I say
WAHOO!!!!!!! thx for the info Mike
Ciao,
Sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Michael Skau
Sent: Monday, June 30, 1997 3:15 PM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: fear and loathing
the
current (June/July 1997) issue of Facets Features, an update
published
by Facets Multimedia has the following entry:
"Johnny
Depp will star in _Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas_, which is
based
on Hunter S. Thompson's novel and will be directed by Alex
Cox
(_Sid and Nancy_)."
Whaddya
think of that!
Cordially,
Mike
Skau
6/30/97
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 16:25:11 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: No Nazi On The Net was (Re: FW:
please read this and vote)
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Puzzled
by this censorship thread. I thought
the idea was that
expression
of ideas, however dead wrong they are was permitted. Action
was the
problem. Do we make the world a better
place by outlawing
ideas? Just asking.
J
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 07:16:27 -0400
Reply-To: Andrew Szymczyk <trent@JANE.PENN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Andrew Szymczyk
<trent@JANE.PENN.COM>
Subject: unsubscribing...
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
oh
geez,
before everyone gets on my
case about this
i need to explain that i already know
the commands,
but for some reason the server won't
accept my
address meaning that it won't let me
off. i've also
tried to contact the administrator,
but my letter was
returned with a vengence stating that
there was no
one on the other end of the address i
tried. so if
you're reading this i'd like to know
what i should
try next.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 07:50:53 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: No Nazi On The Net was (Re: FW:
please read this and vote)
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
James
Stauffer wrote:
>
>
Puzzled by this censorship thread. I
thought the idea was that
>
expression of ideas, however dead wrong they are was permitted. Action
>
was the problem. Do we make the world a
better place by outlawing
>
ideas? Just asking.
>
Censorship
of any kind cannot be permitted in books or on usenet. The
free
expression of ideas is what this country (and the beats) are about.
No
matter how much you loathe someone's ideas, they have a right to
express
them as much has you have a right to express your's. An idea is
simply
an idea. People try to ban ideas they fear. Your own freedom of
speech
can only be protected by fighting for the free speech of all.
Enough
said by me.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 00:01:19 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: No Nazi On The Net was (Re: FW:
please read this and vote)
I know
you're right, Diane... guess emotions
and loathing got the best of
me... apologies.
Ciao
Sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Diane Carter
Sent: Monday, June 30, 1997 7:50 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: No Nazi On The Net was (Re: FW:
please read this and vote)
James
Stauffer wrote:
>
>
Puzzled by this censorship thread. I
thought the idea was that
>
expression of ideas, however dead wrong they are was permitted. Action
>
was the problem. Do we make the world a
better place by outlawing
>
ideas? Just asking.
>
Censorship
of any kind cannot be permitted in books or on usenet. The
free
expression of ideas is what this country (and the beats) are about.
No
matter how much you loathe someone's ideas, they have a right to
express
them as much has you have a right to express your's. An idea is
simply
an idea. People try to ban ideas they fear. Your own freedom of
speech
can only be protected by fighting for the free speech of all.
Enough
said by me.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 21:09:29 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: No Nazi On The Net was (Re: FW:
please read this and vote)
Comments:
To: stauffer@pacbell.net
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
James
Stauffer wrote:
>
>
Puzzled by this censorship thread. I
thought the idea was that
>
expression of ideas, however dead wrong they are was permitted. Action
>
was the problem. Do we make the world a
better place by outlawing
>
ideas? Just asking.
>
> J
Stauffer
As much
as I despise the organized spread of hatred, I must say that I
have to
agree with James here. I don't want
them in my world, but they
are
here. I suppose that teaching love and
the truth will work better
than
pretending like it is not real or censorship.
Lies like people
were
not murdered are sad. It is also sad
that they continue. But if
they
get the Nazi's today, and academy award winning films tomorrow, I
suspect
the beat list is not far behind.
ditto
on that James, and I don't mean me too!
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 21:38:06 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: No Nazi On The Net was (Re: FW:
please read this and vote)
MIME-Version:
1.0
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R.
Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
>
James Stauffer wrote:
>
>
>
> Puzzled by this censorship thread.
I thought the idea was that
>
> expression of ideas, however dead wrong they are was permitted. Action
>
> was the problem. Do we make the
world a better place by outlawing
>
> ideas? Just asking.
>
>
>
> J Stauffer
> As
much as I despise the organized spread of hatred, I must say that I
>
have to agree with James here. I don't
want them in my world, but they
>
are here. I suppose that teaching love
and the truth will work better
>
than pretending like it is not real or censorship. Lies like people
>
were not murdered are sad. It is also
sad that they continue. But if
>
they get the Nazi's today, and academy award winning films tomorrow, I
>
suspect the beat list is not far behind.
>
>
ditto on that James, and I don't mean me too!
>
> Peace,
> --
>
Bentz
>
bocelts@scsn.net
>
>
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
just a
brief note to let people know that i am alive.
a
wonderful shift from God thread to Nazi thread. amazing the extremes
in
thought patterns and wonder if a middle is somewhere in between and
whether
it would be worth typing about even if it were found.
am
reading Eisenhower's autobiography cause he's a Kansan and i went to
his
funeral and cause i read it and marked it all up once when i'd gone
far
beyond the edge of reason and cause the title is At Ease and Ease is
something
i long to find in life.
wonder
sometimes about these neo-"Nazis".
not certain that they are
deserving
of the label. this is misunderstandable
i imagine but frankly
from
what i've seen and heard of these folks in America they are rank
amateurs
without a clue what ultimate evil even looks like -- let alone
being
anywhere close to gaining the influence and power that precedes
the
actions of evil connected with the Nazis.
Not that i'm a big fan of
evil or
anything - but let's give the devil and Hitler their due and not
let
folks think they're in the same league just by shaving heads and
screaming
insanities. certain labels Nazis
included really are
something
one would have to earn i would think and i've not yet learned
of
significant actions in the arena of evil taken by said folks that
puts
them under the shadowy cloak of evil the Fuhrer presented to the
world.
of
course here in Kansas i may be misinformed :)
take
care all,
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:42:24 -0400
Reply-To: Marioka7@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: burroughs story
today
my boss (an english teacher) told me that he went to a bar and had a
drink
with william burroughs once. I almost
fainted.
here is my sycophantic poem of unadulterated
obsequiousness dedicated to
this
great genius of the 20th century (other 20th cent. genii: picasso,
breton,
duchamp...):
bill-ee
bill
you de
man
you de
boss
you de
boss-man
yes suh
yes suh
3 bags
full
Lawrence,
Kansas is so far, so far, so far!
Why do
i hafta work dis damn job?
all i
wanna do is a boom-boom-boom
and a
zoom-zoom!
(hand
of doom)!
i'm
goin' to see you in September cause i'm going away
(far
away! far away!)
and i
might not come back;
and
right now Lawrence Kansas feels like the center of the universe.
a-boom,
BIP-----a-boom-BIP!
I just
want to look into your eyes and know that you are real.
just
once.
You
spin my synapses into extatic convulsions
of
realization that there is the possibility
that
maybe
and it's
a big "IF"
....there's
hope in a grain of sand.
I'l
make you proud of me, daddy-o!
(this
is possibly the worst poem ever written by a human being, maybe isn't a
poem at
all, but hey, i'm not the only one who posts crappy stuff on this
list)
AHEM AHEM
AHEM
(yes, i
clear my throat in YOUR direction, my friend)
----------Maya<<<has
frog in throat. Reaches in and gropes
around, finally
manages
to grab frog by the leg. Pulls frog out.
Notices that frog's wisened
eyes
have uncanny resmblance to William s Burroughs'.......>>>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:49:15 -0400
Reply-To: Marioka7@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: two beats in one state meet
In a
message dated 97-06-29 17:01:38 EDT, you write:
<<
hi all. i dont want to make this into
chatroom city, but did want to tell
you all that diane carter (my editor from mad
magazine and journalist in
her own write) and i met for lunch. and diane
kept her lunch down after
being assaulted verbally by my own recordings
of my recent pomes. that's
bein in the trenches let me tell you. and a
perceptive ear as well as a
comely eye, diane.
thanks
leon, you were right all along!
mc >>
I LOVE
MAD MAGAZINE!!! Does anyone know any cool old comic books or mags? I
mean
funny ones? Ones that make fun of
anything and everything
indiscriminately?
please
let me know!
--maya
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 23:16:07 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: chicago
The
greatest book I've read on Chicago since Nelson Algren is: Beneath The
Empire
of the Birds by Carl Watson, Apathy Press Poets, T. Diventi, ed. 409
Kent
Ave. Brooklyn, NY 11211, 718-218-8634.
Cover design by Joe Coleman who
did the
cover for Jack Black's You Can't Win.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 03:19:31 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: burroughs story
too
much, man...
i'm
flying, flying
higher,
higher
and a
bippidy boppidy boo!!! <tremendous
laughter>
Great
to have some good laughs... you go girl!
Ciao,
Sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Maya Gorton
Sent: Monday, June 30, 1997 7:42 PM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: burroughs story
today
my boss (an english teacher) told me that he went to a bar and had a
drink
with william burroughs once. I almost
fainted.
here is my sycophantic poem of
unadulterated obsequiousness dedicated to
this
great genius of the 20th century (other 20th cent. genii: picasso,
breton,
duchamp...):
bill-ee
bill
you de
man
you de
boss
you de
boss-man
yes suh
yes suh
3 bags
full
Lawrence,
Kansas is so far, so far, so far!
Why do
i hafta work dis damn job?
all i
wanna do is a boom-boom-boom
and a
zoom-zoom!
(hand
of doom)!
i'm
goin' to see you in September cause i'm going away
(far
away! far away!)
and i
might not come back;
and
right now Lawrence Kansas feels like the center of the universe.
a-boom,
BIP-----a-boom-BIP!
I just
want to look into your eyes and know that you are real.
just
once.
You
spin my synapses into extatic convulsions
of
realization that there is the possibility
that
maybe
and
it's a big "IF"
....there's
hope in a grain of sand.
I'l
make you proud of me, daddy-o!
(this
is possibly the worst poem ever written by a human being, maybe isn't a
poem at
all, but hey, i'm not the only one who posts crappy stuff on this
list)
AHEM
AHEM AHEM
(yes, i
clear my throat in YOUR direction, my friend)
----------Maya<<<has
frog in throat. Reaches in and gropes
around, finally
manages
to grab frog by the leg. Pulls frog out.
Notices that frog's wisened
eyes
have uncanny resmblance to William s Burroughs'.......>>>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 23:30:27 -0400
Reply-To: Marioka7@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: high coup (haiku)
the
sweet smell of summer leaves,
dark
green and steaming in the sunny, buzzing air.
m
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 23:35:09 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Summer Reading Project
In a
message dated 97-06-30 14:23:33 EDT, you write:
<<
Charles,
Cool... and although there is a lot of
pablum, I hope you don't mind the
medium growing and expanding beyond it
origins... it would be dead if it
didn't.
By the way, I am somewhat new to Beat lit,
although the ideologies are what
I
cut my teeth on. So please forgive me when I say that I am unfamiliar with
your work, but would like to change
that. Does City Lights publish you?
And
what would you suggest as my first read?
>>
City
Lights published the first edition of Last of the Moccasins and the poem
Apocalypse
in City Lights Journal which was later brought out as a chapbook
handset
and designed by Dave Haselwood in SF. Since then I have had nothing
to do
with City Lights.
Try the
following site as a primer: www.buchenroth.com/cplymell.html, click
to
Goblin, Room Temperature, etc. My
published work is out of print except
the
second American edition of Last of the Moccasins which is available from
Jeff at
Waterrow. That should cut you through the time warp.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 23:27:16 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Mad Magazine
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I
always loved the word plays they did back in the 60's like:
She
drove off in a huff. and it would have
a drawing of a woman in a
car
that looked like a Nash Metropolitan. (Hey Charles, did you ever
have a
Nash!!!! Those were some cherry
wheels. Too bad they sold out
to
Rambler, American, Chrysler.), etc.
Those were some of the best
intellectual
stuff around on any level. Til National
Lampoon came
along. It raised the ante.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 23:36:49 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Dreams
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Dreams
In a
dream, God said to me:
"Don't
you EVER mention my name on
the
Beat List again."
I
figured she was just joking!
Like
when the animals were
Brought
to Adam,
"He
called it an elephant!!!"
"HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa!"
Does
God ever make idol threats
Against
you in your sleep?
I
dreamed I saw God and
Maya's
face was on him.
Then I
thought, I don't
Know
Maya's face.
Then I
thought, well,
This is
a dream.
So,
maybe it was her face?
Then I
went behind the
Big
screen where my cat
Was
swatting at a roach,
And
there was that guy
That
looked like the guy
>From
Mad Magazine.
He
said, "What, God worry?"
So, I
am wondering
If I
should take it all
Seriously
or not.
Hey,
the phone just rang.
It's
God, he wants to
Play
handball.
Zeus is
out of town.
Hera
won't leave him home alone.
I told
him one on one full court,
But I
don't do handball.
We have
a $35.00 bet.
I
wonder where he is planning on parking?
rbk
6/30/97
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 23:58:22 -0400
Reply-To: Marioka7@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: WARNING! non-beat! do not read!
(I know
i have a problem with my trigger-happy "send" finger, but you read
the
warning and you did this to yourself, cats)
theremin
nightmare swims through greenly closed eyes
the red
dots are here again
llllllllike
doppler test skinner boxes,
inkblots
reading my mind in the dark
so bad for your eyes the incision must be
made at the precise point of damn
i
forgot to save it again so it's lost forever but i remember to brush my
teeth.
the
precise point of intersection between ear and soul#3.
Don't
be afraid, you've been there all along.
There
are many concepts of time which have not been explored sufficiently in
our
flat, flat, flat western world and these are the following:
time as
distance. Time = how long it takes to
get from A to B.
time as
circular. No explanation needed we all know about hinduism, etc.
what about mayas and aztecs, too? circular
and repetitive. Sun moves in
circle.(some
heretics suggest it is we who move! but this is obviously a lie)
time as
defined by what you are doing, your activities. For example, not 12
o'clock
but "llunchtime", etc. we do it all the time.
time
and whether or not you can do what you want with it, degree of choice of
what to
do with it as reflecting your socio-economic class. America today.
---maya
(god is on the Evolutionary Level Above Human)
(Time
as non-existent,non-expressable constant evolution of all things
always)
(after all this time in our quantifiable view of life, our world is
still
so very flat, so very flat!)
Resounding
platitudes are not limited to this list.