=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:00:07 -0700
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Re: fear and loathing
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Actually,
Depp and Cox had quite a difference in opinion of how the book
should be
filmed, and Cox has been dropped. Last time I heard filming is
now set
for early July with Terry Gilliam doing the honors.
Adrien
Michael
Skau wrote:
>
>
the current (June/July 1997) issue of Facets Features, an update
>
published by Facets Multimedia has the following entry:
>
"Johnny Depp will star in _Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas_, which is
>
based on Hunter S. Thompson's novel and will be directed by Alex
>
Cox (_Sid and Nancy_)."
>
Whaddya think of that!
>
Cordially,
>
Mike Skau
>
6/30/97
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 21:09:51 -0700
Reply-To: "Steve Smith a.k.a. Whiskey
Wordsmith" <psu06729@ODIN.CC.PDX.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Steve Smith a.k.a. Whiskey
Wordsmith" <psu06729@ODIN.CC.PDX.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beat core
Comments:
To: "neudorf@discovland.net"
<neudorf@MAINSERVER.DISCOVLAND.NET>
In-Reply-To: <33B54E5D.5978@discovland.net>
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On Sat,
28 Jun 1997, neudorf@discovland.net wrote:
> J.
Stauffer wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions for reading projects that might help
>
> restore some minimal level of Beat focus to the list before it
>
> completely evaporates into the dissapearing ozone layer with more and
>
> more Kozmic Kuestions like Poesey and Godliness?
>
>
Just finished reading Kerouac's 'Mexico City Blues'. It gets stronger as
>
you read it. I have come to the conclusion that his Blues choruses must
> be
read drunk, or with at least a buzz, the rhythms jump out easier. It
> is
also closer to his state while writing them.
>
>
Anybody read Bob Kaufman? he's a real character.
i see
what you mean--at least partially; however, my beat lit students
have
just waded through some of the choruses--and i think they found them
quite
lucid and indeed huzzah magical even without weed or booze; of
course
Jack wrote many (?) of them on a coffee and pot high...but then
again
their tenor and tone and imagery and such are red and right for any
(well,
pretty much any) state of mind. my students were very impressed
byt
michael mcclure's notion that MCB is the greatest long religious poem
in the
20th century. quite an imprimateur. of course then MCB would beat
out
Eliot's Wasteland--which is quite a wow religious poem in its own
right!
>
Steve
R. Smith
Dept.
of English
Pacific
University
Oregon
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 00:12:52 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: <<Diane>>, di prima,
<<beauty>>
In a
message dated 97-06-30 13:59:50 EDT, you write:
<<
ok. I'm a big fan of the river. >>
Well, I
hate to be a bore, but sometimes it seems that those who discovered
the
beats seem to frame them or freeze them in time like a fast food carry
out.
One of the poet's poet who influenced them all wrote a poem titled The
River.
It used to be in his Brooklyn Bridge collection. Harte Crane was
notoriously
homosexual, though like Whitman it was deseminated throughout his
vision.
He was the first poet I've read who so openly used the breath to end
lines,
combined and invented words from what was around him, embraced his
lovers,
relied heavily on spontenaeity for his images and vision. I think it
is The
River that provides an example of all these things that made his poety
great
and acknowledged rather secretly by all those who came later,
especially
the beats. That poem, or one, begins with about a half page of
breath,
combining ads "ripped in the guaranteed corner" and when the breath
runs
out, the next breath softens with "and left three men sitting on the
tracks/watching
tailights wizen and converge." I don't have his book, so this
is
recalled from the 50's. But I'm sometimes perplexed with the "Alpha and
Omega"
sense that surrounds the "discovery" of the beats?
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 21:29:41 -0700
Reply-To: "Steve Smith a.k.a. Whiskey
Wordsmith" <psu06729@ODIN.CC.PDX.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Steve Smith a.k.a. Whiskey
Wordsmith" <psu06729@ODIN.CC.PDX.EDU>
Subject: Re: Visionaries (Eliot/Ginsberg again,
for Michael Skau & et al)
Comments:
To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
In-Reply-To: <33B763DB.63BC@together.net>
MIME-Version:
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On Mon,
30 Jun 1997, Diane Carter wrote:
>
Now that I've reread some Eliot, I am ready to address a few points from
>
earlier Eliot/visionary discussion.
>
> I
think there needs to be a distinction between a poet that writes
>
symbolically and a visionary. Eliot is
really depressing. Eliot saw
>
what was wrong, spiritually, but accepted "death-in-life,"
>
>
(Prufrock)
>
"Do I dare disturb the universe?"
>
>
"I am no prophet--and there's no great matter;
> I
have seen the moment of my greatness flicker,
>
And I have seen the eternal Footman hold my coat, and snicker.
>
And in short, I was afraid."
>
>
Eliot saw the vision, saw what was necessary to do, but could not rise to
>
the task. The visionary poet must in
some meaning of the term, be a
>
prophet, rail against the status quo, and in doing so put forth a his own
>
positive vision of what is possible. He
must as Chris Dumond, so
>
articulately put, in another post about Ginsberg, "[rain] life, pride,
>
and love on us all." Blake took
the work of other writers, like Milton,
>
and put his vision over their's in a way that spread out, and widened,
>
set up his own system, of what was and what could be.
>
>
The hope in the Wasteland is faint, really faint, the sound of thunder
>
there but not resonant, not awakening, at least not yet. The grass is
>
singing but it is not fully alive. Not
in the way Whitman or Ginsberg
>
sang or were fully alive. A visionary
says "this is what I see" and
>
projects his vision out there, loudly.
>
>
Eliot writes,
>
"No! I am not Prince Hamlet, nor was meant to be;
> Am
an attendant lord, one that will do
> To
swell a progress, start a scene or two,
>
Advise the prince; no doubt, an easy tool,
>
Deferential, glad to be of use,
>
Politic, cautious, and meticulous;
>
Full of high sentence, but a bit obtuse"
>
>
Eliot used symbols well, layering in metaphoric and metaphysical
>
dimensions, the fire and rose are one, even cyclic sometimes in his view
> of
words and history, but often his words are devoid of power, the power
> to
change, to do anymore than accept his lot.
A true visionary
>
transforms experience, their experience and our experience. In Howl,
>
Ginsberg raged against America, but he also saw the possibility for the
>
hope that rises up in our humanness.
Eliot is not grasping upon the
>
mermaid, rising with her cutching rebirth, he is looking at it from afar.
> I would describe his voice not so much as a
visionary one as one that
>
saw what was possible, but was unable to grasp whatever he needed to
>
transcend his condition.
> DC
>
Hi,
Diane. But there is the WAY in the Wasteland--the regenerative
spirit
and flesh available through the grail and the knight moving
through
the pilgrimage to it. yes, the Wasteland is bleak (blook,
perhaps,
in Kerouac's term) (or blear!), but there is Eliot's own (yes,
the
intentional fallacy rears up here) faith. this does come through the
poem.
no question i see Eliot as a visionary--like Blake and Ginsberg.
It's
just they saw visions in different tone and different tenor. Of
course
Blake and Ginsberg would not see through the same glass as Eliot
in all
his rather conservative protestantisms, but they all three of
them
SAW visions, i tend to see "visionary" poet as poet who sees of
beyond
and through the "veils"--whatever the veils may be. Eliot could be
such a
stick in the bloody mud, but he saw the bloody mud and clear on
through
the bloody comedy (Kerouac's note in Desolation Angels) to "what
came
next."
i am
blah blahing here, but...
Steve
R. Smith
English
Dept.
Pacific
Univ.
Oregon
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 04:10:45 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Dreams
Hahahahahaha!!
so why
didn't you tell him to call Thor? Bad
news if god plays a joke on you
and
moves the no parking signs, then wins the game..... <hehehe> you be
broke,
big daddy
Thanks
for the grins,
Sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
R. Bentz Kirby
Sent: Monday, June 30, 1997 8:36 PM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Dreams
Dreams
In a
dream, God said to me:
"Don't
you EVER mention my name on
the
Beat List again."
I
figured she was just joking!
Like
when the animals were
Brought
to Adam,
"He
called it an elephant!!!"
"HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa!"
Does
God ever make idol threats
Against
you in your sleep?
I
dreamed I saw God and
Maya's
face was on him.
Then I
thought, I don't
Know
Maya's face.
Then I
thought, well,
This is
a dream.
So,
maybe it was her face?
Then I
went behind the
Big
screen where my cat
Was
swatting at a roach,
And
there was that guy
That
looked like the guy
>From
Mad Magazine.
He
said, "What, God worry?"
So, I
am wondering
If I
should take it all
Seriously
or not.
Hey,
the phone just rang.
It's
God, he wants to
Play
handball.
Zeus is
out of town.
Hera
won't leave him home alone.
I told
him one on one full court,
But I
don't do handball.
We have
a $35.00 bet.
I
wonder where he is planning on parking?
rbk
6/30/97
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 00:53:39 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Standing here
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Standing
Here
Standing
here,
An
outcast within.
Swim in
light,
A well
meant vow.
I lack
the courage,
To
maintain until
I meet
my rebirth again.
I face
my dreams,
They,
so like an angry wife,
Who
cannot be divorced,
Except.
The
debasing night.
To
become honest.
Moment's
realized revelation,
Years
of seconds,
Moments
of years,
My
demons ARE mine.
This
stand, may not be unique,
But,
it's the only one I have.
Hidden
too long.
I lack
the courage,
To
maintain
Until
my rebirth again.
Standing
here.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 07:42:24 +0200
Reply-To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: No Nazi AGAIN!!!.
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dEAR
fRIENDS,
i'm
noticed in advance many people disagree with
censored
the NG nazi, anyway i agree with people
who
want that hate & dont' forget that hitler gang
was let
talked in past & from word to word people
agree
with the project & then olocausto became a reality,
word
arent' facts, maybe but in politics there a bit
different
matter i suppose,
tHanx
alot for yr opinions my friends,
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
* I write
peotry because Ezra Pound saw an ivory tower,
[bet on one wrong horse... ---allen
ginsberg *
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 23:36:31 -0700
Reply-To: runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner711
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: high coup (haiku)
In-Reply-To:
<970630233024_340215299@emout17.mail.aol.com>
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<<oh
my>>
At 8:30
PM -0700 6/30/97, Maya Gorton wrote:
>
the sweet smell of summer leaves,
>
dark green and steaming in the sunny, buzzing air.
>
> m
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 23:41:37 -0700
Reply-To: runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner711
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: Dreams
In-Reply-To: <33B87B51.73D3527@scsn.net>
Mime-Version:
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<<nice>>
At 8:36
PM -0700 6/30/97, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
Dreams
>
> In
a dream, God said to me:
>
"Don't you EVER mention my name on
>
the Beat List again."
> I
figured she was just joking!
>
Like when the animals were
>
Brought to Adam,
>
"He called it an elephant!!!"
>
"HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa!"
>
Does God ever make idol threats
>
Against you in your sleep?
> I dreamed
I saw God and
>
Maya's face was on him.
>
Then I thought, I don't
>
Know Maya's face.
>
Then I thought, well,
>
This is a dream.
>
So, maybe it was her face?
>
Then I went behind the
>
Big screen where my cat
>
Was swatting at a roach,
> And
there was that guy
>
That looked like the guy
>
>From Mad Magazine.
> He
said, "What, God worry?"
>
So, I am wondering
> If
I should take it all
>
Seriously or not.
>
Hey, the phone just rang.
>
It's God, he wants to
>
Play handball.
>
Zeus is out of town.
>
Hera won't leave him home alone.
> I
told him one on one full court,
>
But I don't do handball.
> We
have a $35.00 bet.
> I
wonder where he is planning on parking?
>
>
rbk 6/30/97
>
> --
>
Bentz
>
bocelts@scsn.net
>
>
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 23:46:38 -0700
Reply-To: runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner711
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: WARNING! non-beat! do not read!
In-Reply-To:
<970630235821_523982585@emout18.mail.aol.com>
Mime-Version:
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<<laugh>> <<good health, Maya>>
<<hm>>
At 8:58
PM -0700 6/30/97, Maya Gorton wrote:
> (I
know i have a problem with my trigger-happy "send" finger, but you
read
>
the warning and you did this to yourself, cats)
>
>
>
theremin nightmare swims through greenly closed eyes
>
the red dots are here again
>
llllllllike doppler test skinner boxes,
>
inkblots reading my mind in the dark
>
> so bad for your eyes the incision must be
made at the precise point of damn
> i
forgot to save it again so it's lost forever but i remember to brush my
>
teeth.
>
the precise point of intersection between ear and soul#3.
>
Don't be afraid, you've been there all along.
>
>
There are many concepts of time which have not been explored sufficiently in
>
our flat, flat, flat western world and these are the following:
>
>
time as distance. Time = how long it
takes to get from A to B.
>
>
time as circular. No explanation needed we all know about hinduism, etc.
> what about mayas and aztecs, too? circular
and repetitive. Sun moves in
>
circle.(some heretics suggest it is we who move! but this is obviously a lie)
>
>
time as defined by what you are doing, your activities. For example, not 12
>
o'clock but "llunchtime", etc. we do it all the time.
>
>
time and whether or not you can do what you want with it, degree of choice of
>
what to do with it as reflecting your socio-economic class. America today.
>
>
---maya (god is on the Evolutionary Level Above Human)
>
(Time as non-existent,non-expressable constant evolution of all things
>
always) (after all this time in our quantifiable view of life, our world is
>
still so very flat, so very flat!)
>
>
Resounding platitudes are not limited to this list.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 23:50:21 -0700
Reply-To: runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner711
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: <<Diane>>, di prima,
<<beauty>>
In-Reply-To:
<970701001250_174279242@emout17.mail.aol.com>
Mime-Version:
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<<and
what were we saying about critics, so few, so rare?>>
At 9:12
PM -0700 6/30/97, Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:
> In
a message dated 97-06-30 13:59:50 EDT, you write:
>
>
<< ok. I'm a big fan of the river. >>
>
Well, I hate to be a bore, but sometimes it seems that those who discovered
>
the beats seem to frame them or freeze them in time like a fast food carry
>
out. One of the poet's poet who influenced them all wrote a poem titled The
>
River. It used to be in his Brooklyn Bridge collection. Harte Crane was
>
notoriously homosexual, though like Whitman it was deseminated throughout his
>
vision. He was the first poet I've read who so openly used the breath to end
>
lines, combined and invented words from what was around him, embraced his
>
lovers, relied heavily on spontenaeity for his images and vision. I think it
> is
The River that provides an example of all these things that made his poety
>
great and acknowledged rather secretly by all those who came later,
>
especially the beats. That poem, or one, begins with about a half page of
>
breath, combining ads "ripped in the guaranteed corner" and when the
breath
>
runs out, the next breath softens with "and left three men sitting on the
>
tracks/watching tailights wizen and converge." I don't have his book, so
this
> is
recalled from the 50's. But I'm sometimes perplexed with the "Alpha and
>
Omega" sense that surrounds the "discovery" of the beats?
>
Charles Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 23:56:26 -0700
Reply-To: runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner711
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: Standing here
In-Reply-To: <33B88D52.39EBA75F@scsn.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
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I don't
know what you poety freaks are all cryin about tonight. I know
Xena's
dead, I know. I know. but tune in next
week. Xena will ride
again!! <<ahem>> Douglas
At 9:53
PM -0700 6/30/97, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
Standing Here
>
>
Standing here,
> An
outcast within.
>
Swim in light,
> A
well meant vow.
>
> I
lack the courage,
> To
maintain until
> I
meet my rebirth again.
> I
face my dreams,
>
They, so like an angry wife,
>
Who cannot be divorced,
>
Except.
>
>
The debasing night.
> To
become honest.
>
Moment's realized revelation,
>
Years of seconds,
>
Moments of years,
> My
demons ARE mine.
>
>
This stand, may not be unique,
>
But, it's the only one I have.
>
>
Hidden too long.
> I
lack the courage,
> To
maintain
>
Until my rebirth again.
>
>
Standing here.
> --
>
Bentz
>
bocelts@scsn.net
>
>
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ summer
save
it, just keep it off my wave
is
-- ("my wave," soundgarden) here
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 03:18:28 +0000
Reply-To: "neudorf@discovland.net"
<neudorf@DISCOVLAND.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "neudorf@discovland.net"
<neudorf@DISCOVLAND.NET>
Subject: Poet
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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Diane
Carter wrote:
> If
poetry provides the answers, who asks the question? The poet? Ah,
>
sorry folks, won't follow that line of line of thought any farther...
We
don't have to worry about the origins of the questions. The poet
provides
the answers, his answers = his truth ; and there are many
answers
= many truths. As a reader, you choose which answers fit you
best.
JN
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 00:13:33 -0700
Reply-To: runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner711
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: No Nazi AGAIN!!!.
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19970701074224.00689a48@pop.gpnet.it>
Mime-Version:
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I think
I feel
that
people will watch and wait
see
what happens because you can't
be
everywhere be everything
certainly
not against
everything
my god
life is
about breathing
about
swimming
<<peeing
in the pool>>
and
about running
always
about running
time
takes a cigarette <<david bowie>>
Nazies,
what do I care?
I think
I feel
olo
cost
that's
why people don't agree
censsssor
ship is bad!!!
douglas
At
10:42 PM -0700 6/30/97, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
dEAR fRIENDS,
>
i'm noticed in advance many people disagree with
>
censored the NG nazi, anyway i agree with people
>
who want that hate & dont' forget that hitler gang
>
was let talked in past & from word to word people
>
agree with the project & then olocausto became a reality,
>
word arent' facts, maybe but in politics there a bit
>
different matter i suppose,
>
tHanx alot for yr opinions my friends,
>
---
>
yrs
>
Rinaldo.
> *
I write peotry because Ezra Pound saw an ivory tower,
> [bet on one wrong horse... ---allen
ginsberg *
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ summer
save
it, just keep it off my wave
is
-- ("my wave," soundgarden) here
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 00:25:23 -0700
Reply-To: runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: fear and loathing
In-Reply-To: <33B88EC4.4ABC@sk.sympatico.ca>
Mime-Version:
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our
little surfer
surfer
dude
he's
come a long way
barns
having fallen on him
riding
buck back high rollin
freakin
dancin death boogy in
little
buddha, mister dylan's dog
a patti
smith poem, thank you
future
comotose future
can you
take a guess
what
would you do?
star
makes the money
cutts
the funny
gets
the honey
fuck
me?
fuck
me?
fuck you
quit a
difference of opinion, obviously. on
his way to <<vegas>>
gott
any heroine?
need
heroine?
<<get
back in the car man>>
jagged
paintings hanging loosely
droppin
pills and pepsies
heroine <<where the qualudes, man?>>
lawyers
will have a mess with this one man
sharks!! eat him up
sharks!! eat him up
<<shut
up Nancy!!>> <<Nancy girl>> <<nancy girl>>
<<adrian!!>>
<<rocky??>> <<Dr.
Scott!!>> <<huh??>>
geez,
what kinda of a fear and loathing can we be expecting now? Terry
Gilliam's
pretty cool... if only River Phoenix
hadn't died... <<man>>
Douglas
At
10:00 PM -0700 6/30/97, Adrien Begrand wrote:
>
Actually, Depp and Cox had quite a difference in opinion of how the book
>
should be filmed, and Cox has been dropped. Last time I heard filming is
>
now set for early July with Terry Gilliam doing the honors.
>
>
Adrien
>
>
Michael Skau wrote:
>
>
>
> the current (June/July 1997) issue of Facets Features, an update
>
> published by Facets Multimedia has the following entry:
>
> "Johnny Depp will star in _Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas_, which is
>
> based on Hunter S. Thompson's novel and will be directed by Alex
>
> Cox (_Sid and Nancy_)."
>
> Whaddya think of that!
>
> Cordially,
>
> Mike Skau
>
> 6/30/97
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ summer
save
it, just keep it off my wave
is
-- ("my wave," soundgarden) here
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 03:27:58 +0000
Reply-To: "neudorf@discovland.net"
<neudorf@DISCOVLAND.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "neudorf@discovland.net"
<neudorf@DISCOVLAND.NET>
Subject: Genius
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Maya
wrote:
>
(this is possibly the worst poem ever written by a human being, maybe isn't a
>
poem at all, but hey, i'm not the only one who posts crappy stuff on this
>
list)
There's
no need for this. Not enough time in the world to double doubt.
Remember
#29 on Kerouac's list: everything you write is pure genius
[paraphrase].
JN
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 13:12:03 +0200
Reply-To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: No Nazi AGAIN!!!.
Mime-Version:
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>Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 00:13:33 -0700
>From: runner711
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
>I
think I feel
>that
people will watch and wait
>see
what happens because you can't
>be
everywhere be everything
>certainly
not against
>everything
>my
god
>
>life
is about breathing
>about
swimming
><<peeing
in the pool>>
>and
about running
>always
about running
>
>time
takes a cigarette <<david bowie>>
>
>Nazies,
what do I care?
>I
think I feel
>olo
cost
>that's
why people don't agree
>censsssor
ship is bad!!!
>
>douglas
>
>At
10:42 PM -0700 6/30/97, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
>
>>
dEAR fRIENDS,
>>
i'm noticed in advance many people disagree with
>>
censored the NG nazi, anyway i agree with people
>>
who want that hate & dont' forget that hitler gang
>>
was let talked in past & from word to word people
>>
agree with the project & then olocausto became a reality,
>>
word arent' facts, maybe but in politics there a bit
>>
different matter i suppose,
>>
tHanx alot for yr opinions my friends,
>>
---
>>
yrs
>>
Rinaldo.
>>
* I write peotry because Ezra Pound saw an ivory tower,
>> [bet on one wrong horse... ---allen
ginsberg *
>
>
>http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ summer
>save
it, just keep it off my wave
is
> -- ("my wave," soundgarden) here
>
dEAR,
i agree
with u but i forced myself to forget that
Ezra
Pound IS a fascist & put a line between poetry
&
politics, but this not possible in every case,
the
poetry as i known born in italy with San Francesco
&
then with Dante Alighieri & wasnt' so clear that
was
ONLY lit, poetry was POLITICS at his dawn its' no
doubt,
& what i must say 'cuz im' born in a patria who
was the
land where fascism was grown...
have my
love,
Rinaldo.
* a not competent beet *
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 07:46:58 -0400
Reply-To: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: desperately seeking dave
breithaupt!/radio show tape!
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
sorry
folks tried to backchannel the info; couldnt;
does
anyone have db(breithaupt)'s snail mail address?
db: i
got a package for you with an empty address.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 08:03:27 -0400
Reply-To: Tony Trigilio
<atrigili@LYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tony Trigilio
<atrigili@LYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: suspicious, but perhaps unfounded.
Comments:
cc: membabe@aol.com
In-Reply-To: <33B83305.BF9B50CB@scsn.net>
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R.
Bentz Kirby wrote:
>Has
anyone on the list ever heard of Diane De Rooy.
Yes. Diane organized a virtual memorial for Allen
Ginsberg within a week
of his
death on the America Online Beat Generation Chat Room. The several
of us
who logged on that morning remembered the best of Allen's work and
life. We shared stories and posted excerpts from
his work. It was one of
the
better memorials I attended that month.
Since
then, we have exchanged occasional emails; and I have tried to return
to the
Beat Generation Chat Room, but I always seem to turn up when the
room is
empty.
I have
found Diane to be honest, considerate, compassionate--and a very
good
writer. She is a professional. I do not know enough about the
details
of the estate controversy to comment on the nuances of the
arguments. I was one of those BEAT-L subscribers who
was not turned off by
the
arguments over the estate these past few weeks. As a scholar who
periodically
must make use of closed-stack library collections--and as a
former
Rare Books staffer--I found the arguments worth reading.
And I
found nothing in Diane's posting that was outrageous. Your
disagreements
are well taken, as was your reminder that an actual visit to
the
Lowell archives would constitute stronger evidence than would a
telephone
call to the archives.
>I
also note with interest that this post appears almost a day or two
>after
Gerry signed off the list.
Did
Gerry post a notice to the list that he was signing off? If so, then I
understand
why you said the above, and I'm sorry that I missed Gerry's
posting. I have been swamped with work lately, and
I've been unable to do
more
than save the postings I've wanted to respond to (visionary poetry,
Ginsberg
& Eliot) and hope to respond later.
But if
Gerry did not give public notice that he was leaving, then how would
Diane--or
any of us--know he was gone? I know
that listservs have a
command
(I can't remember right now because it is saved in another file)
that
will allow you to get a list of all current subscribers. I tried this
for
BEAT-L about two years ago, and was told that this particular command
was
blocked. As far as I know, the
subscriber list is confidential. Thus,
I'm not
sure how Diane would know Gerry had signed off.
>I
ran a 411 search
>and
turned up nothing. I ran one on my
email address and got me.
I am
probably more technologically challenged than I think I am. Please
explain
what a "411" search is. The
closest analogue I can come up with is
a
directory assistance telephone search, which we can do locally by
dialling
"411."
Do you mean
a finger search? If so, then rest
assured: the various times
that I
have tried finger searches on folks who belong to AOL, I have
received
no information. As far as I can tell,
AOL blocks finger searches.
Every "finger" attempt to find a
login name--and information on login
frequency--for
an AOL user will turn up nothing.
Again,
maybe I'm missing the "411" code.
Or maybe there is a way to
subvert
AOL's finger-blocking.
>So,
I
>am
very curious about this. I know that
there have been phantom posts
>from
aol before and that Jerry C. smoked some of those out. If Diane is
>a
real person, I apologize to her, but this post seems very suspicious
>and
the timing makes it even more so. I
apologize, for an off topic
>post.
I am
sorry, too, for the off topic post. I
just wanted to write to let you
know
what I know of Diane as a real person.
By writing this, I do not
intend
to involve myself in the estate controversy, nor do I purport to
have
relevant knowledge of the controversy. I am not taking sides on any of
the
issues that have emerged from the estate arguments. I hope this helps.
Take
care--
Peace--
Tony
atrigili@lynx.neu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 09:37:39 -0500
Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sinverg=FCenza?=
<ljilk@MAIL.MPS.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sinverg=FCenza?=
<ljilk@MAIL.MPS.ORG>
Subject: Re: WHITMAN
Mime-Version:
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Sherri
wrote:
><grins>
so then, leo, was your thot on the beam, were you too lazy or scare=
d
>of
pain, or does it mean that blood-letting is not required? <still
>giggling> Ciao, Sherri
>
>----------
>From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
>=3D?iso-8859-1?Q?Sinverg=3DFCenza?=3D
>Sent: Monday, June 30, 1997 2:07 PM
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Subject: Re: Whitman
>
>Douglas
wrote:
>
>><<still
digging>>
>>
>>>From: Ksenija
Simic[SMTP:ksenija@GALOIS.MI.SANU.AC.YU]
>>>
>>>"Camarado,
>>>this
is not a book!
>>>Who
touches this, touches the man."
>>
>>Note
to myself: explore book covers of
beats. first editions ---->
>>etc. As a visual artist, how is
"touching" presented. in soft
and hard
>>bind...
;-) and if you eat the book. lonely one night, alone in yer
>>room, [[devour it whole]] have you
"communed" with *The Man* as well???
>>
>>Douglas <<obese in thought, thin on
restraint>>
>
>I
thought I could only be a
>writer
if I pushed a book against
>my
lips until i bled.
>
>=3D46unny
thought.
>
>I
dented my lip and tasted the
>book,
but I didn't bleed.
>
>-leo
it was
a silly thought. i should've been waiting for the book to bleed.
Emerson
said something about words being vascular; anyway, if you cut them
they
will bleed.
leo
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 23:12:51 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: God
<<still digging>>
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>Joseph
Neudorfer writ
>
>
>= there is nothing holding us back from knowing all, but there is
>
>no
>
>physical possibility of reaching that 'all-knowledge', you would soon
>
>swim in insanity . . . hense Jehovah is crazy . . . that is why even
>
>Moses, the figure who was in Yahweh's presence, was not actually face
>to
>
>face. When Moses asked Yahweh to reveal himself (one of the many times
>
>on the mountains, after the burning bush), Yahweh only permitted Moses
>
>to observe his back and shoulders - which on one level is a paradox in
>
itself.>>
>
>
Penn, Douglas, K wrote:
>
and is this why Andre Breton says "beauty must be repulsive"?? To reach
>
'all-beauty' would one soon be repulsed by everything?? and where to
>go
>
from there? back down the
mountain?? [[please don't let me ask
about
>
the "burning bush" in this context, please don't let me ask,
please...
>
<<laughing>>
>
>
Still wish you would explain that Yahweh/Moses ---> back/shoulders
>
paradox. Maybe Yahweh was an ugly mofo,
having a badhair day, and just
>
decided to be shy? somewhat kidding,
but curious <<answer via
>
>backchannel if necessary>>
>
The
more I think about Joseph's post of reaching all-knowledge as
swimming
in insanity and hense Jehovah is crazy, the more right on target
I see
it. I took the Moses observing back
& shoulders analogy to mean
that if
Moses [we] saw the face of God, we would indeed go insane. Can
you even
start to imagine what grasping the wholeness of human knowledge
and the
universe in one instant would be like?
Much better that we grasp
at
meanings broken down into bits, the god talked about in churches seen
in
human terms, the idea of father, children, Jesus, all put in a human
mythological
context so our feeble minds can cope.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 08:17:34 +0000
Reply-To: wirtz@ridgecrest.ca.us
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike & Barbara Wirtz
<wirtz@RIDGECREST.CA.US>
Subject: Re: No Nazi On The Net was (Re: FW:
please read this and vote)
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Diane
Carter wrote:
>
>
James Stauffer wrote:
>
>
>
> Puzzled by this censorship thread.
I thought the idea was that
>
> expression of ideas, however dead wrong they are was permitted. Action
>
> was the problem. Do we make the
world a better place by outlawing
>
> ideas? Just asking.
>
>
>
>
Censorship of any kind cannot be permitted in books or on usenet. The
>
free expression of ideas is what this country (and the beats) are about.
> No
matter how much you loathe someone's ideas, they have a right to
>
express them as much has you have a right to express your's. An idea is
>
simply an idea. People try to ban ideas they fear. Your own freedom of
>
speech can only be protected by fighting for the free speech of all.
>
Enough said by me.
> DC
just
curious...this country? isn't this the net...and a world-wide list?
Couldn't
anybody, even joe kerouac over in Somalia, join? Are our first
amendmentment
rights protected Throws the ball to Bentz :)
I am
actually curious about this one, because I chat over at alamak at
think
cafe, and I go a number of rounds on whether a public site, though
privately
maintained, can censor ideas. I would
appreciate any insights
you
could provide.
also...I am sure I could get a Beat chat room set up at optichat
for
folks
that wanted to talk...but there is a cursing filter...so in order
to
truly curse, you have to do so creatively.
barb
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 08:24:31 -0700
Reply-To: runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner711
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: No Nazi AGAIN!!!.
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19970701131203.0068b834@pop.gpnet.it>
Mime-Version:
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<<fighting
a poundig head>> Rinaldo writ:
>
dEAR,
> i
agree with u but i forced myself to forget that
>
Ezra Pound IS a fascist & put a line between poetry
>
& politics, but this not possible in every case,
>
the poetry as i known born in italy with San Francesco
>
& then with Dante Alighieri & wasnt' so clear that
>
was ONLY lit, poetry was POLITICS at his dawn its' no
>
doubt, & what i must say 'cuz im' born in a patria who
>
was the land where fascism was grown...
>
have my love,
>
Rinaldo. * a not competent beet *
sometimes
the patient cannot be saved must be cutout
32 x 32
they stand in slide specimens lines //gris gris
then
pasted and photoshoped later //no no no no
Robert
Rauschenberg got his start with Dante too
a bunch
of illustrated cantos that won him recognition
got the
1964? Venice Biennial
then
picked a fight with M. Cunningham the dancer
Jasper
Johns his lover
and
he's been slightly drunk political since
travelling
to china, chilie, russia indonesia?
<<ROCI>>
his
visuals and hunchback versace smile
//weapons
for peace
don't
know Ezra Pound at all
"Salo"
by piero pasolini has my love
a
fetching carrot, // Douglas
"If
you love your fun, die for it!"
--Jello Biafra
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ let the man come thru
stand
up, and let the man come thru
let the man come thru
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 23:22:09 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: <<Diane>>, di prima,
<<beauty>>
MIME-Version:
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Penn,
Douglas, K wrote:
>
> I
agree words can be nothing/everything holy (as Ginsberg would
>
apparently define), but I still must hold onto a societal view of
>
"beauty" (and a few other choice words). beauty needs to go for a ride
>
with me for a while longer. this I must
see. [[oh..exhale..]] why is
> it
so hard to give up words? they answer
so many questions.
>
> "what are words for, when nobody
listens any more for
> [....] there's no use talking
all..." [missing persons]
>
What
you will find is that if you think about a word long enough it will
lose
all of it's meaning. It will become
frayed, and fragmented, and
suddenly
you will be thrust into the potentional absurdity of the
collective
unconscious. You will see where Kerouac
and Joyce were going,
the
place where one word means a million things at many levels, syllables
thrown
together in that vast space we call the mind, charting the course
of
history and eternity in one word, one moment.
And then you will start
writing
that way, in the language of the unconscious and people will
spend
years of their lives picking out all the inherent meaning in the
way
words and syllables are run together.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 08:25:44 +0000
Reply-To: wirtz@ridgecrest.ca.us
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike & Barbara Wirtz
<wirtz@RIDGECREST.CA.US>
Subject: Re: high coup (haiku)
MIME-Version:
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Maya
Gorton wrote:
>
>
the sweet smell of summer leaves,
>
dark green and steaming in the sunny, buzzing air.
>
> m
haiku
to you, too!
Lovers
sandwiching
My
peanutbutter lust wants
Welch's
grape jelly
:)
barb
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 08:30:12 -0700
Reply-To: runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner711
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: No Nazi On The Net was (Re: FW:
please read this and vote)
In-Reply-To: <33B8BD1E.273A@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us>
Mime-Version:
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<<merde,
I'm late for work!>>
At 1:17
AM -0700 7/1/97, _____ Barbara Wirtz wrote:
> also...I am sure I could get a Beat
chat room set up at optichat for
>
folks that wanted to talk...but there is a cursing filter...so in order
> to
truly curse, you have to do so creatively.
cool. chickenheads,
prepare your engines!!
>
barb
Douglas
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ let the man come thru
stand
up, and let the man come thru
let the man come thru
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 23:33:08 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Eating the book of life (was Re:
Whitman)
MIME-Version:
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Penn,
Douglas, K wrote:
>
>Note
to myself: explore book covers of
beats. first editions ---->
>
etc. As a visual artist, how is
"touching" presented. in soft
and hard
>
bind... ;-) and if you eat the
book. lonely one night, alone in yer
>
room, [[devour it whole]] have you
"communed" with *The Man* as well???
> lines of Ginsberg come to mind, [from
Howl] "with the absolute heart of
the
poem of life butchered out of their own bodies good to eat a thousand
years." Feeding on the body of life is a common
thread in much modern
literature,
probably dating back to the reference of communion as feeding
on the
body of Christ. Joyce was big on
feeding on the body, that each
of us
is connected to collective humanity in this way, feeding on the
the
dead, finding there life/work which enlightens us, and connects each
of us
one to the next.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 09:24:21 -0400
Reply-To: MATT HANNAN
<MATT.HANNAN@OTC.USOC.CCHUB.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MATT HANNAN
<MATT.HANNAN@OTC.USOC.CCHUB.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: burroughs story
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The
other evening, after consuming my usual dinner of scrambled eggs
smothered
in Gib's Nuclear Hell Hot Sauce, I had a dream that my wife and
I met
AG (in his late-life form) in the basement of a New York City
Firehouse--seemingly
by appointment. Every time I began to
ask him a
question
he'd get up and walk to another room in this tiny building
decorated
in early 1960's naugahide. After about
twenty repetitions of
this he
morphed into a younger version of himself (India/Paris days) and
said
simply "I have to go now" and I woke up.
Any
Amateur Freudian Psychoanalysts (as opposed to Bournemouth and
District
Amateur Gynecologists) wanna take a crack at that one?
love
and lilies,
matt
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 09:34:23 -0400
Reply-To: MATT HANNAN
<MATT.HANNAN@OTC.USOC.CCHUB.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MATT HANNAN
<MATT.HANNAN@OTC.USOC.CCHUB.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: fear and loathing
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>Actually,
Depp and Cox had quite a difference in opinion of how the book
>should
be filmed, and Cox has been dropped. Last time I heard filming is
>now
set for early July with Terry Gilliam doing the honors.
I know Gilliam does a wonderful job and
has directed outside his
"Genesis" but I just can't help
thinking of a HST/Python marriage:
Act 1, Scene 1: HST and the crazed Samoan at 125 mph on 15 between
Baker and the NV line. Pan to rear view of convertible as giant
green
foot stomps convertible to bits and
topless queen Elizabeth II appears
over butte to left, googly eyes all
agoggle.
Don't trust the movie biz....filming may start
today but debut may be
in 2001!
love and lilies,
matt
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 09:53:21 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: burroughs story
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yes,
you weren't running fast enough.
IMHO,
Douglas
"the
map is not the territory"
babu@electriciti.com
(Alfred Korzybski) www.electriciti.com/babu/
>----------
>From: MATT HANNAN[SMTP:MATT.HANNAN@OTC.USOC.CCHUB.COM]
>Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 1997 6:24 AM
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Subject: Re[2]: burroughs story
>
>The
other evening, after consuming my usual dinner of scrambled eggs
>smothered
in Gib's Nuclear Hell Hot Sauce, I had a dream that my wife and
>I
met AG (in his late-life form) in the basement of a New York City
>Firehouse--seemingly
by appointment. Every time I began to
ask him a
>question
he'd get up and walk to another room in this tiny building
>decorated
in early 1960's naugahide. After about
twenty repetitions of
>this
he morphed into a younger version of himself (India/Paris days) and
>said
simply "I have to go now" and I woke up.
>
>Any
Amateur Freudian Psychoanalysts (as opposed to Bournemouth and
>District
Amateur Gynecologists) wanna take a crack at that one?
>
>love
and lilies,
>
>matt
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 16:35:56 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: No Nazi On The Net was (Re: FW:
please read this and vote)
would
be cool to do beat chat, let's do it!
Thx, Barb
Ciao,
Sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 10:28:18 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: message play
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note to
myself: find URL of article originally
published in Monday's LA
Times.
Why Men
Just Have to Monkey Around
<<snippet>>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=
by
Kathleen Kelleher (special to the Times)
<<
Chimpanzees-the
best human anlogue because they must cooperate to combat
common
enemies and compete for females and rank-do something called
"message
play."
"Instead
of beating up on an adolescent male, an adult male starts very
roughly
tickling. . . playfully slapping him and shoving him but giving
him the
message that he _could_ beat him up if he wanted to," says Frans
de
Waal, a primatologist at the Yerkes center and author of several
books
on primates.
"It
is turning tension into play. It is a
bit like tension between guys
and
they turn it into a joke."
>>
Douglas <<who never bit anybody's ear
off....>>
"the
map is not the territory"
babu@electriciti.com
(Alfred Korzybski) www.electriciti.com/babu/
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 17:33:36 -0500
Reply-To: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: gregory corso?
Content-Type:
text
Ksenija,
The
Corso line you were asking about is from line 15 of Corso's
poem
"Bomb"; in English it reads," To die by cobra is not to die
by bad
pork." "Bomb" was originally published as a broadside, and
later
was collected in _The Happy Birthday of Death_ as a foldout
in that
volume, surely one of the few books of poetry ever published
with a
centerfold.
Cordially,
Mike
Skau
7/1/97
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 19:50:26 -0500
Reply-To: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Don't shoot the messenger
Comments:
cc: gnicosia@earthlink.net, Diane DeRooy <MemBabe@aol.com>
In-Reply-To:
<970630143115_-461032658@emout14.mail.aol.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
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Diane,
This is
a fact.
Ph.D.
candidate from the University of Michigan, writing her dissertation
on
Keroauc, was denied access to the collection Gerry Sold to U.Mass.
If
Martha Mayo stated that anyone has access to the collection of research
material
that was used to write MEMORY BABE: A CRITICAL BIOGRAPHY OF JACK
KEROAUC,
she is not telling the truth.
j grant
Academic
& Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
372,191
visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 18:31:45 -0700
Reply-To: James William Marshall
<iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Kill Time, Save Vegetables
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I think
I smell treble beats.
I just
wanted to let the group know that I know God and Satan personally and
they've
asked me to clear up a few things here.
They're actually really
good
friends. They made up a long time ago.
Satan and I have this running bit where he
flies by my balconey and says,
"See
you soon James." And I say,
"Yeah sure Satan you joker you."
And I
look
out at the lake of fire and the folks gnashing their teeth and crying
and I
laugh.
God takes me to heaven about every three
weeks. Don't get me wrong, we
talk in
between visits. When I go to heaven,
God and I get drunk and we
talk
about you guys and humanity in general.
Occasionally, other species
pop up
but that's usually when we're really out of it and we're bored. God
always
asks me what I wanna do and I say, "I dunno, whadda you wanna do?"
and he
says, "I dunno man, I've done everything." We usually end up jerking
ourselves
from one edge of the universe to another and God'll say, "Okay,
we're
here. Now we're here. Now we're over here. Oh.
Now we're here."
Then we go back to heaven and God lets me
make fun of Christ. I say
things
like, "Jesus Jesus, you shoulda, you know, made yourself tough as
nails. Or if you didn't wanna do that, you shoulda
told everybody not to
start a
religion based on what you said because there's these guys with
really
big hats and they tell everybody what you REALLY meant. I mean, you
shoulda
thought ahead man. Why didn't you do a
little writing yourself?
You
know, make the message neon and eternal or something." And Christ
invariably
says, "I was just doing what Dad wanted." And God says, "When
are you
going to grow up? Jesus Christ Jesus
Christ." Blashpemy is allowed
in
heaven by the way. God's always saying,
"Medammit, time for another
earthquake."
If anyone's interested, I'll relate more of
what's been going on with God,
Satan
and other religious figures and me later.
James M.
"I'm
dying. I hope you're dying too."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 18:44:21 -0700
Reply-To: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: Re: suspicious, but perhaps unfounded.
In-Reply-To: <33B83305.BF9B50CB@scsn.net>
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At
06:28 PM 6/30/97 -0400, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
>Has
anyone on the list ever heard of Diane De Rooy.
I have
swapped mail with membabe@aol.com on various topics such as irc.
> I
ran a 411 search
>and
turned up nothing. I ran one on my
email address and got me.
I went
to www.four11.com and did a NAME search on you. You did not show up
in R.
Bentz Kirby, Bentz Kirby, or the last name of Kirby. So does this
mean
youd on't exist? And as far as the web search engines work, they only
work if
YOU yourself put your name in OR someone buys your name off the
list.
just because someone does NOT show up in the web search means they do
not
exist.
I also
did a search on Charles Bukowski: Three email addresses
Charles Plymell: No
matches
James Stauffer: 23
Matches
Jack Kerouac: No
Match
William S.
Burroughs: No match
So do
these people not exist because you did not find them at
www.four11.com?
Hardly.
>
So, I
>am
very curious about this. I know that
there have been phantom posts
>from
aol before and that Jerry C. smoked some of those out. If Diane is
>a real
person, I apologize to her, but this post seems very suspicious
>and
the timing makes it even more so. I
apologize, for an off topic
>post.
As for
your "comptence" doing websearch, if you were my lawyer, I would
have
fired you long ago for 'incomptence". Membabe is a very real person
and one
*I* have corresponded with in the past about various and sundry
things.
SO
before you go doing "searches" why don't you actually do a search.
She
mentioned
I believe that she lives in Seattle (or thereabouts) nothing to
look
her up in the phonebook or do a search though DMV seeing as you are
such
"the lawyer".
ttfn.
lisa
--
Lisa M. Rabey Computer Consultant UIN: 1231211
************************************************************
words...1000's of words.. wrapped
together like wire
how easy it would be to
hate you
and yet that is all i can
show you.
Nothing lasts forever.
-me
http://www.bigendian.com/~simunye
mirror:
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
F.U.C.K. mirror:
http://www.samurai.com/~lisa/f.u.c.k
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:54:32 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: Don't shoot the messenger
Comments:
To: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
MIME-Version:
1.0
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jo
grant wrote:
>
>
Diane,
>
>
This is a fact.
>
>
Ph.D. candidate from the University of Michigan, writing her dissertation
> on
Keroauc, was denied access to the collection Gerry Sold to U.Mass.
>
> If
Martha Mayo stated that anyone has access to the collection of research
>
material that was used to write MEMORY BABE: A CRITICAL BIOGRAPHY OF JACK
>
KEROAUC, she is not telling the truth.
>
> j
grant
Jo, she
was not the only scholar. Others have
been turned away. This
is the
standard line given out by Mayo, but reality is different.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:10:59 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Next in the FireWalk line ... LONG
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quoted-printable
some
have shown interest in these ... if you're not one feel free to
delete
quickly.
>From
FireWalk Thru Madness, copyright December 1992 David B. Rhaesa
THE
HISTORY OF TIME -- OR -- THE TIME OF HISTORY
OR
HUMAN
VEGETABLE TEACHES HISTORY TO COLLEGE STUDENTS
The
wild eyed freshman walked upstairs to his history class. First day
of
college one class down one professor dead in the shadow of the wild
eyed
boy=92s mind. As he sat in the room
waiting for the class to begin
he felt
a strange sense of accomplishment - after years he was the first
the
very first student that answered the Poetry Professor=92s question.=20
It was
also strange because it left him feeling somewhat alienated,
somewhat
isolated - well actually completely alienated and isolated
because
he was different than all the other students - and it wasn=92t
just
the students in that particular class.
He was different from all
the
students who had brought their answers to the worn poetry professor
year
after year.
He felt
like an alien transported to wake the college from it=92s
intellectual
slumber - shock the world out of it=92s one dimensional slee=
p
walking
existence. The wild eyed boy realized
that the professor was
talking
in the front of the room and he=92s saying something about
Santayana
something about =93Those who refuse to learn from the past are
doomed
to repeat it.=94 He=92s up there
mumbling about doom thought the
wild
eyed boy but doesn=92t know anything about doom. What has this
middle
aged man ever known about doom? The
wild eyed boy began to feel
the
irritation building inside him the irritation that mean the alien
death
force he harbored in his soul was beginning to surface. =20
He
raised his hand and asked: =93Would it help a starving child in Somali=
a
to read
a book about past famines, or perhaps a history of nutrition?=94=20
The
professor looked annoyed in his cordouroy jacket with patches on the
sleeves. Where did this question come from? Students didn=92t ask real
questions. Not in a history class. Something about the boy=92s tone
annoyed
him and tempted him kept him from brushing off the comment. It
was asi
if the rest of the class disappeared onlyy the middle-aged man
with
all those books in his mind and the wild eyed boy with his angst
stood
facing each other mind vs. mind, soul vs. soul a battle to the
death.
=93The
history you teach is fiction,=94 said the wild eyed boy. =93All y=
ou=92re
doing
is telling his story as opposed to her story of the ant=92s story o=
r
some
other guy=92s story or some other woman=92s story. What makes you
think
that the books you read are any truer than some Louis L=92Amour
Western?=94 He paused for a moment to witness the
professor=92s response=
.=20
=93The
history you study is just an extended Senate Confirmation Hearing
with
Clarence Thomas telling his story and Anita Hill telling her story
and the
witnesses telling their stories and a bunch of old white
straight
males are sitting in the front holding court to decide which
story
will be called the truth. Woody Guthrie
knew that the true
History
wasn=92t what made it to the history books what made it to the Ne=
w
York
Times - the true history was in the boxcars - it was Whitman asking
Woody
to travel America and tell what he saw and that=92s what Woody did =
-
And he
heard Irving Berlin=92s =91God Bless America=92 and he said that
shouldn=92t
pass as history and he wrote =91God Blessed America=92 and th=
en
called
it =91This Land is Your Land=92 and he wrote =91you can only write=
what
you
see=92 on the bottom of the page and it became the alternative
national
anthem -- but even it wasn=92t the truth - some of the verses
were
ignored, the capitalists hid the radical verses - just saved the
pretty
ones - and U2 tried to excavate in the shared vision thing but I
don=92t
know if the project was an archaeoogical success. So you want me
to
believve that history protects us in the future and if it was true,
if it
wasn=92t fiction I might agree -- but what makes you believe George
Washington
really crossed the Delaware or Jesus Christ really died on a
cross
or even existed? Is it because a book
told you so. If that naive
faith
is all you have to protect you from the doom that lurks in the
future
then I fear for your soul old man.=94
He
stared at the history professor who was silent -- he was blank. But
he
seemed to still have life buried somewhere inside him so the wild
eyed
boy waited patiently -- and he waited, and he waited --
occasionally
he caught a glimpse of the student class President across
the
room staring at the boy like he stared at Crazy Eddy or his little
sister
when she told him about their Uncle and sexual abuse and some
would
call it rape - but why bother.
The
professor finally spoke. =93How would
you predict the future, if not
with
the aid of history?=94 =20
The
wild eyed boy stared at him, not flinching for a moment. =93You=92re=
so
fucking
presumptious to believe you can predict the future anyway. Or
for
believing that the future is even predictable or that anything is
predictable. What in your history could make you expect
that we=92d be
engaged
in this mental bloodsport right now, this instant, the present?=20
And
what makes you think that even if things are predictable, that what
you
call historiy is any more accurate, any more =91scientific=92 than Ta=
rot
Cards
or Ouija Boards or Astrology? Don=92t
you get it old man. That
thing
you call history isn=92t the Truth -- it isn=92t History with a
capital
H -- it=92s just some misguided excuse for one snapshot of the
billion
possible snapshots of a feew points in time.
And studying all
these
wars doesn=92t seem to make us not fight in them. It makes as much
sense
to say that our preoccupation with war in our history textbooks
perpetuates
this war mentality like a self-fulfilling prophecy and we=92d
do
better (or at lest as well) to roll some dice or call a 1-900 Psychic
line.=94
=93So
you don=92t believe in History?=94 the professor responded. His
response
was almost immediate, almost presumptious, as if he thought
some
intellectual trick -- a mind trap he=92d learned in graduate school
when
his professor trapped him for being inquisitive -- was enough to
silence
this strange creature that was passing off as a college
freshman.
The
wild eyed boy recognized the simplicity of the response, he realized
that
the middle-aged man had not listened to him, that the professor was
afraid
to look into the mirror of his soul and see a big sign saying:
=93FRAUD=94,
and was trying to protect himself with old tricks like a che=
ap
magician.
=93I
believe in History, but it isn=92t whay you call history. You=92re =
so
caught
in your cage that you can=92t even listen to another angle -- see
another
truth. What are you afraid of old
man? Afraid of losing or
maybe
even learning from a wild eyed freshman?
Would that be so
horrible? -- Career ending/Soul wrenching blow to
learn something from
a
student. I believe in history but not
what you call history. This is
history
right now. And what=92s happening at
the Casey=92s over in Hills=
,
Iowa,
that=92s history. Your brand of history
has some kind of
accredidation
or application attached to it like for my life to be
meaningful
I have to make history and that I have to try out for the
great
play of history like trying out for some stupid high school
musical
that nobody in the audience understands because they=92re only
there
out of obligation to their children who are only in the play to
please
their parents. What makes you think
that you=92re less
historically
meaningful than George Washington? Does
it make you
insecure
to look in the mirror and not see George Washington? If I
write a
book of history or a movie and call it =93It=92s a Wonderful Life=
,=94
and let
you star and let you almost jump off the bridge because of your
insecurities,
your belief in history and let Clarence save you will that
make
you feel worthwhile? Or will you wait
to to read the movie
reviews? Instead of living through old dead men, dead
on black and
white
paper -- a few pictures to try and prove something -- try living
through
yourself. Shave your head. Get a tatoo. Run through the
streets
naked and see if anyone notices and if you care. Learn to live
as if
you are the characters in your prized history books and you=92ll do
well. Or deal with the fact that you=92re just a
speck of matter in the
Universe
that doesn=92t amount to much of anything but what you decided t=
o
make
for yourself. Maybe then you can be
happ0y and stop terrorizing
freshmen
term after term making them think that they aren=92t as importan=
t
as
these =91historical=92 figures.=94
The
history professor now recognized that he faced a formidable
opponent. This wild eyed boy -- fire of Jupiter
flaming out like bolts
of
lightning from the Heavens -- staring at him questioning his
legitimacy. For years such a question had not even been
considered by
the
blurry eyed students who pass by his desk each term. For years his
legitimacy
rested in his position, his degrees, of course he knows more
than us
freshman because he=92s in a position to know all that
information. The wild eyed boy seemed to see through this
mirage
realizing
that anyone could be in this position that teaching was really
idiotic
in many ways. And he realized that his
degrees and honors meant
nothing
to this student because the boy was questioning all the classes
represented
by those degrees by questioning this one moment in this one
class. If he demonstrates that my class is a fraud
-- for a moment --
he may
expose the big fraud of the whole degree system. This student
was
digging deeper than any other in his sixteen years of teaching. He
was
questioning the professor=92s entire reason for believing -- his
reason
for being. It wasn=92t a question of
his particular beliefs those
would
be easy to defend in combat. The wild
eyed boy was questioning
the
reason of it -- the sanity of it. He
was saying that the premise on
which
the professor=92s entire existence was built was nothing but
shifting
sand. It was with this shaky foundation
that the professor
turned
to the boy and asked:
=93So
if you believe in history, only a different history than mine,
-- What
is the essence of History?=94
=93It=92s
about time,=94 the wild eyed boy replied.
For a minute the
professor
thought the student was scolding him for taking so long to get
around
to questioning the essentials and he waited for the student to
continue. Then he realized that it was the student=92s
answer. The
essence
of history, as this student perceived it, was time.
The
professor froze there for an historical moment -- an historical
instant. In that one momenthe left his body into the
collective mind of
his
unconscious and from there he turned to look over his shoulder and
there
before him was all of history -- all there at once -- everything
staring
at him.
In his
normal state of mind he would have thought this impossible. How
could
all of history be present to him in one instant -- in one moment.=20
But he
was experiencing it and so he could understand all that came
before,
in its wholeness and he could see all that was now and from this
atemporal
vision the collage of this thing called history projected the
future
into his mind. And finally he learned
what Santayana meant.
He was
repeating history term after term doomed to the same mundane
existence
because he refused to turn and face history, to look at the
historical
instant and now that he had seen the vision he should return
and
learn from it -- Teach others to learn from it, in a meaningful way,
in an
essential way -- teach the truth about history, that history is
the
interval between an instant and a moment and all of history is
contained
therein.
The middle
aged professor woke from his dream in a cold sweat. He was
disoriented,
but soon realized that he=92d slept through his alarm. He
had
fifteen minutes until his first class of the term. He had stayed up
late
preparing for the first day=92s lecture.
It was fairly commonplace
for the
dirst day of class to be devoted to preliminary procedural
matters
-- a brief description of the course, the ritual dispensing of
the
syllabus -- signing add and drop slips and returning to the office
and
home early.
This
term the professor had decided that the first day required a
lecture. The reason, he believed, for student apathy
was rooted in the
tone of
the class that first day. The
introduction to the class is of a
stale
administrative course for academic credit paid for in cash. All
of
these considerations completely destroyed the importance of the
content
of the material to be presented in this particular class. It
was
primarily the same as any other class regardless of the subject.=20
Any disagreements
or disparities between classes clearly focused only on
procedural
matters.
The
Professor decided to change that. On
the first day of class he
would
introduce history -- what it is, why it is so important, so
essential
to our lives. He=92d begun with the
famous quotation =93Those =
who
choose
to ignore history are doomed to repeat it.=94
From here the
lecture
went on for nearly twelve pages illustrating the hazards of
historical
ignorance. The historically
intelligent, the historically
aware,
the historically conscious, individual can see past the blur of
everyday
events at the archetypal plots -- life-scripts -- that are
played
out day-in and day-out by people who don=92t even know that they
are in
the play.
=93All
the World=92s a stage and I am but a player on it=94 the professor
thinks
and he explains to the students in the lecture that learning to
play at
history is the test of understanding of knowledge just like in
any
other endeavor. The historical
character can see the separate play
outside
the ones which occupy most people=92s time.
The historical
character
alters the present within the interior play by shifting
through
the plots and actions in the larger play.
One must possess
historical
awareness, historical consciousnes, historical Be-coming to
become
a figure in the larger plane of history. =20
As he
entered the room carrying a stack of papers and the notes for his
lecture
scrawled on diner napkins from late night coffee the dream
returned
to the middle-aged professor. He was
wearing his new corduoroy
jacket
with the patched sleeves. The nightmare
returned. The entire
dream
returned and he saw the wild eyed boy standing over him and he
knew
that he was a fraud.
He
handed out the syllabus, asked if there were any questions, signed
some
add and drop slips, walked downstairs to his office, shut the door,
turned
on the radio to hear Carlos Santana playing God Bless America on
a
forthcoming, historical patriotic album.
Berlin vs. Guthrie. Germany
vs.
Oklahoma. in Football or War or is
there a difference? Of course
there
is he thought and said he=92d take Germany in war but Oklahoma woul=
d
kick
their ass in football.=20
His
mind drifted further into the past and present.
Five
hours later another professor stopped by to ask about a signature
on a
travel voucher for their trip to the convention last week. He
found
the middle-aged history professor still in his corouroy jacket
staring
blankly and smiling blankly and completely unaware of the
activities
in his physical surroundings.
They
took him to a hospital I=92m told. They
said he never recovered.
Occasionally
he mutters something about the wild eyed boy and it is all
here,
this one moment contains it all at once.
He was right -- time is
the
essential component, transcend time - escape the quality of
temporality
for an instant and you can see the history folding and
unfolding
and repeating and skipping lice dice or domino=92s ....
and he
goes on and on and the nurses just walk by without even looking
surprised
by the insane patter from the retired old man.
And he tells
them
he=92s a professor but nobody believes him....he=92s a crazy man. T=
hey
think -
sure, he=92s a professor. Better double
the Haldol and get out
the
leather for this one says Lurch as he reads the description of
tonight=92s
shift. =93It looks like you=92re all
going to finally get to=
meet
the
wild eyed boy. Merry Chirstmas.=94
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:17:17 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: suspicious, but perhaps unfounded.
Comments:
To: "Lisa M. Rabey" <lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Lisa M.
Rabey wrote:
>
> At
06:28 PM 6/30/97 -0400, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
>Has anyone on the list ever heard of Diane De Rooy.
>
> I
have swapped mail with membabe@aol.com on various topics such as irc.
>
>
> I ran a 411 search
>
>and turned up nothing. I ran one on
my email address and got me.
>
> I
went to www.four11.com and did a NAME search on you. You did not show up
> in
R. Bentz Kirby, Bentz Kirby, or the last name of Kirby. So does this
>
mean youd on't exist? And as far as the web search engines work, they only
>
work if YOU yourself put your name in OR someone buys your name off the
>
list. just because someone does NOT show up in the web search means they do
>
not exist.
>
> I
also did a search on Charles Bukowski: Three email addresses
> Charles Plymell: No matches
> James Stauffer: 23
Matches
> Jack Kerouac: No
Match
> William S.
Burroughs: No match
> So
do these people not exist because you did not find them at
>
www.four11.com? Hardly.
>
>
> So, I
>
>am very curious about this. I know
that there have been phantom posts
>
>from aol before and that Jerry C. smoked some of those out. If Diane is
>
>a real person, I apologize to her, but this post seems very suspicious
>
>and the timing makes it even more so.
I apologize, for an off topic
>
>post.
>
> As
for your "comptence" doing websearch, if you were my lawyer, I would
>
have fired you long ago for 'incomptence". Membabe is a very real person
>
and one *I* have corresponded with in the past about various and sundry
>
things.
>
> SO
before you go doing "searches" why don't you actually do a search.
She
>
mentioned I believe that she lives in Seattle (or thereabouts) nothing to
>
look her up in the phonebook or do a search though DMV seeing as you are
>
such "the lawyer".
>
>
ttfn.
>
>
lisa
> --
>
> Lisa M. Rabey Computer Consultant UIN: 1231211
>
************************************************************
> words...1000's of words.. wrapped
together like wire
> how easy it would be to
hate you
> and yet that is all i can
show you.
> Nothing lasts forever.
-me
>
> http://www.bigendian.com/~simunye
> mirror:
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
> F.U.C.K. mirror:
http://www.samurai.com/~lisa/f.u.c.k
Lisa:
If your
flame had any information that was useable in it, I would use
it. I asked if anyone knew if she was a real
person. If you know her
and she
is, then, I would be more than happy to hear that. I did not
claim
to know the answer, but if you would type in bocelts@scsn.net into
411 you
would get information on me, unless you have a different 411
search
engine. 411 is for the living who have
email address, phone
numbers
etc, it is not prefect. Methinks you doth protest too much.
Maybe
you just don't like lawyers. Whatever
it is, good luck working
your
problem out.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:41:25 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: suspicious, but perhaps unfounded.
Comments:
To: "Lisa M. Rabey" <lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Lisa M.
Rabey wrote:
>
> At
06:28 PM 6/30/97 -0400, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
>Has anyone on the list ever heard of Diane De Rooy.
>
> I
have swapped mail with membabe@aol.com on various topics such as irc.
>
>
> I ran a 411 search
>
>and turned up nothing. I ran one on
my email address and got me.
>
> I
went to www.four11.com and did a NAME search on you. You did not show up
> in
R. Bentz Kirby, Bentz Kirby, or the last name of Kirby. So does this
>
mean youd on't exist? And as far as the web search engines work, they only
>
work if YOU yourself put your name in OR someone buys your name off the
>
list. just because someone does NOT show up in the web search means they do
>
not exist.
>
> I
also did a search on Charles Bukowski: Three email addresses
> Charles Plymell:
No matches
> James Stauffer: 23
Matches
> Jack Kerouac: No Match
> William S.
Burroughs: No match
> So
do these people not exist because you did not find them at
>
www.four11.com? Hardly.
>
>
> So, I
>
>am very curious about this. I know
that there have been phantom posts
>
>from aol before and that Jerry C. smoked some of those out. If Diane is
>
>a real person, I apologize to her, but this post seems very suspicious
>
>and the timing makes it even more so.
I apologize, for an off topic
>
>post.
>
> As
for your "comptence" doing websearch, if you were my lawyer, I would
>
have fired you long ago for 'incomptence". Membabe is a very real person
>
and one *I* have corresponded with in the past about various and sundry
>
things.
>
> SO
before you go doing "searches" why don't you actually do a search.
She
>
mentioned I believe that she lives in Seattle (or thereabouts) nothing to
>
look her up in the phonebook or do a search though DMV seeing as you are
>
such "the lawyer".
>
>
ttfn.
>
>
lisa
> --
>
> Lisa M. Rabey Computer Consultant UIN: 1231211
>
************************************************************
> words...1000's of words.. wrapped
together like wire
> how easy it would be to
hate you
> and yet that is all i can
show you.
> Nothing lasts forever.
-me
>
>
http://www.bigendian.com/~simunye
> mirror:
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
> F.U.C.K. mirror:
http://www.samurai.com/~lisa/f.u.c.k
Lisa:
Funny
you should have written this missive to the list moments before I
received
this from an old college friend who is NOT on the beat list.
The
message below was sent at 18:28 but received after Lisa's post.
>Subject:
Four11 listing
>Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:28:39 +0000
>From: swhitney@gate.net
>
To: bocelts@scsn.net (R. Bentz
Kirby)
>Hi
Bentz, When I managed to find your home
page using a web search
>engine.
I am certain that I had previously searched for you via the
>Four11
directory services. I found out that the only way to find you
>in
Four11 is to enter " R "
for the first name and "
Kirby " for
>the
last name. If you want people to be
able to find you by Bentz
>Kirby
then you might want to go back to Four11 and fill out an
>alternate
first name field.
<snip>
--
Funny
how poetry is in motion on the www sometimes, ain't it! ;-)
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:45:50 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: Four11 listing
Comments:
To: swhitney@gate.net
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
swhitney@gate.net
wrote:
>
> Hi
Bentz, When I managed to find your home
page using a web search
>
engine. I am certain that I had previously searched for you via the
>
Four11 directory services. I found out that the only way to find you
> in
Four11 is to enter " R "
for the first name and "
Kirby " for
>
the last name. If you want people to be
able to find you by Bentz
>
Kirby then you might want to go back to Four11 and fill out an
>
alternate first name field.
> I was trying to figure out how in the
world you got an email from
>
Mike Miller so soon today, before I had emailed him your address,
>
and finally figured it out when I visited my Guestbook page and
>
realized Mike got your email address there. There are 6 of us online
>
now, hope to find more. Later Steven
>
>
Steven Whitney Naples FL.
> (
swhitney@gate.net ) or ( nfn00805@gator.naples.net )
>
Home Page
http://gate.net/~swhitney/ or
> http://naples.net/~nfn00805
> If
I am online you can reach me with WebChat via the link on my Homepage
Steve:
Thanks
for the message, when I get to work tomorrow, I will check to see
what
time that your message was sent and what time Mike's was sent. I
guess
it depends on the routing that your email has to go through, I
guess. Your message to me about 411 was very
timely. So, I am posting
a
copy of this email to you on the beat
literature list. I'll explain
later
if you want to know. BTW, I was looking
at our annual today at
work. Someone asked if I really used to weigh only
145. Saw a picture
of you
guys getting on the bus to go to Nationals.
Man, I may scan that
and
post in on my www site for the track and field list to get to know
you
better! ;-)
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 02:50:02 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: suspicious, but perhaps unfounded.
My, my
such a rabid response for a rather innocuous e-mail from Bentz...
Since
this is not you personally being drawn under question, why so excited?
Also,
how do you know that she's membabe? How
do I know that you're not one
and the
same person as "Diane De Rooy"?
She didn't state that in her posting.
How do you know for certain she's a she, have
you heard "her" voice, seen a
picture?
Have you seen "her" published work, "her" credentials, met
"her" for
coffee....
Since
there is a controversy, it seems to me that it's good for people to
question
events that might have an effect on the recovery of stolen items as
well as
the mis-handling of the irreplaceable archives of Jack Kerouac's work.
I'm
sorry, Lisa, but your e-mail seems suspect to me... I would prefer to be
wrong
on this, but at this point it certainly doesn't ring true.
Ciao,
Sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Lisa M. Rabey
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 1997 6:44 PM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: suspicious, but perhaps unfounded.
At
06:28 PM 6/30/97 -0400, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
>Has
anyone on the list ever heard of Diane De Rooy.
I have
swapped mail with membabe@aol.com on various topics such as irc.
> I
ran a 411 search
>and
turned up nothing. I ran one on my
email address and got me.
I went
to www.four11.com and did a NAME search on you. You did not show up
in R.
Bentz Kirby, Bentz Kirby, or the last name of Kirby. So does this
mean
youd on't exist? And as far as the web search engines work, they only
work if
YOU yourself put your name in OR someone buys your name off the
list.
just because someone does NOT show up in the web search means they do
not
exist.
I also
did a search on Charles Bukowski: Three email addresses
Charles Plymell: No
matches
James Stauffer: 23
Matches
Jack Kerouac: No Match
William S.
Burroughs: No match
So do
these people not exist because you did not find them at
www.four11.com?
Hardly.
>
So, I
>am
very curious about this. I know that
there have been phantom posts
>from
aol before and that Jerry C. smoked some of those out. If Diane is
>a
real person, I apologize to her, but this post seems very suspicious
>and
the timing makes it even more so. I
apologize, for an off topic
>post.
As for
your "comptence" doing websearch, if you were my lawyer, I would
have
fired you long ago for 'incomptence". Membabe is a very real person
and one
*I* have corresponded with in the past about various and sundry
things.
SO
before you go doing "searches" why don't you actually do a search.
She
mentioned
I believe that she lives in Seattle (or thereabouts) nothing to
look
her up in the phonebook or do a search though DMV seeing as you are
such
"the lawyer".
ttfn.
lisa
--
Lisa M. Rabey Computer Consultant UIN: 1231211
************************************************************
words...1000's of words.. wrapped
together like wire
how easy it would be to
hate you
and yet that is all i can
show you.
Nothing lasts forever.
-me
http://www.bigendian.com/~simunye
mirror:
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
F.U.C.K. mirror:
http://www.samurai.com/~lisa/f.u.c.k
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 23:13:26 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: apology
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
I
apologize to the list for my overreaction to Lisa's flame. I made two
posts
off topic in reply, and again apologize. Tonight was my 14th
wedding
anniversary, and I put my 12 year old son on a plane to spend
two
weeks with my sister and her husband. I
have a sense of seperation
anxiety
and am having a hard time dealing with all of this. So, if I
was out
of line in my three responses to Lisa, I apologize.
On the
other hand, it seemed very poetic that while Lisa was busy
flaming
me about 411 that a friend who found me for the first time since
1976,
was writing me about finding me on 411 and suggesting that I add
Bentz
to the listing. To me that was
poetry. One of the last things
Steve
and I did together, was to go on a road trip from Charleston, SC
to
Columbia, SC to see Bruce and the E Street Band on the Born to Run
tour. They played a 4000 seat arena in Columbia
and it was just before
BTR
broke out big time. Now the circle is
closed some 21 years later by
the www
and 411. In my mind, very cool.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 20:32:52 -0700
Reply-To: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: Re: suspicious, but perhaps unfounded.
In-Reply-To: <33B9BA2D.187E8541@scsn.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
<snip>
>Lisa:
>
>If
your flame had any information that was useable in it, I would use
>it.
It
wasn't a "flame" it was a critique. You stated that because the
person
could
not be found by www.four11.com, the person could not exist. I pointed
out to
you that just because someone was NOT listed on www.four11.com does
not
mean that they do not exist, hence my examples.
> I
asked if anyone knew if she was a real person.
If you know her
>and
she is, then, I would be more than happy to hear that. I did not
>claim
to know the answer, but if you would type in bocelts@scsn.net into
>411
you would get information on me, unless you have a different 411
>search
engine. 411 is for the living who have
email address, phone
>numbers
etc, it is not prefect. Methinks you doth protest too much.
me
thinks you jump to the gun too much. You were ready to haul membabe to
the
stake and burn her because of an incident in the past that occurred
with
*supposed* fake aol.com addresses.
>
>Maybe
you just don't like lawyers. Whatever
it is, good luck working
>your
problem out.
Erm,
why is it if you make a comment about something that does not agree
with
yours that suddenly that someone has "problems". Now, that is mature.
ttfn.
Lisa
--
Lisa M. Rabey Computer Consultant
UIN: 1231211
************************************************************
words...1000's of words.. wrapped
together like wire
how easy it would be to
hate you
and yet that is all i can
show you.
Nothing lasts forever.
-me
http://www.bigendian.com/~simunye
mirror:
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
F.U.C.K. mirror:
http://www.samurai.com/~lisa/f.u.c.k
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 20:37:24 -0700
Reply-To: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: Re: suspicious, but perhaps unfounded.
In-Reply-To: <33B9BFD5.D67D2695@scsn.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Before
you get your accolades, why don't you READ what I wrote:
You
wrote:
>>Hi
Bentz, When I managed to find your home
page using a web search
>>engine.
I am certain that I had previously searched for you via the
>>Four11
directory services. I found out that the only way to find you
>>in
Four11 is to enter " R "
for the first name and "
Kirby " for
>>the
last name. If you want people to be
able to find you by Bentz
>>Kirby
then you might want to go back to Four11 and fill out an
>>alternate
first name field.
><snip>
I
wrote:
> I
went to www.four11.com and did a NAME search on you. You did not show up
> in
R. Bentz Kirby, Bentz Kirby, or the last name of Kirby. So does this
>
mean youd on't exist? And as far as the web search engines work, they only
>
work if YOU yourself put your name in OR someone buys your name off the
>
list. just because someone does NOT show up in the web search means they do
>
not exist.
>
I did a
search on R. Bentz Kirby, Bentz Kirby, and the last name of Kirby.
Nothing.
Your "Friend" found you by R. Kirby. So, I did *NOT* find you
because
of the string pattern, its was not boolean enough. So *I* did not
find
because of such.
And if
you READ what your friend said, he says 'if you want people to be
able to
find you by Bentz
Kirby
then you might want to go back to Four11 and fill out an
alternate
first name field."
So you
can stop talking about poetry in motion on the www, because we were
both
"right".
ttfn.
Lisa
--
Lisa M. Rabey Computer Consultant UIN: 1231211
************************************************************
words...1000's of words.. wrapped
together like wire
how easy it would be to
hate you
and yet that is all i can
show you.
Nothing lasts forever. -me
http://www.bigendian.com/~simunye
mirror:
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
F.U.C.K. mirror:
http://www.samurai.com/~lisa/f.u.c.k
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 20:53:57 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: suspicious, but perhaps unfounded.
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Sherri
wrote:
>
Also, how do you know that she's membabe?
How do I know that you're not
one
>
and the same person as "Diane De Rooy"? She didn't state that in her posting.
> How do you know for certain she's a she,
have you heard "her" voice, seen a
>
picture? Have you seen "her" published work, "her"
credentials, met "her" for
>
coffee....
>
How do
we know that anyone is anyone if we haven't met them and even
then if
they are who they say they are. For all
I know Benz Kirby is a
stage
name for Gerry Nicosia. I have never
either one. Maybe "sherri"
is a
complete illusion.
The
whole list may just be one big multiple personality illusion.
I
cannot help but think that there is something about this debate that
produces
dementia. It's a trip to the twilight
zone. Everytime it
surfaces
the strangest allegations start to be made.
So far we have
Lisa
and Tony Triglio who have exchanged e-mails on other topics with
this
person. Somewhere out in cyberspace
there is a "membabe" who was
interested
enough in beat stuff to do a Ginsberg tribute on AOL. Such
an
entity might logically have an interest in the estate question. But
somehow
if this "person" disagrees with the Nicosia/Kirby position in
this
matter they graduate to being part of the evil Sampas gang, with
its
tentacles reaching from Lowell to Seattle.
Funny, isn't it.
J
Stauffer
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 20:44:16 -0700
Reply-To: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: Re: suspicious, but perhaps unfounded.
In-Reply-To: <UPMAIL14.199707020255290821@msn.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
02:50 AM 7/2/97 UT, you wrote:
>My,
my such a rabid response for a rather innocuous e-mail from Bentz...
>
>Since
this is not you personally being drawn under question, why so excited?
>Also,
how do you know that she's membabe? How
do I know that you're not one
>and
the same person as "Diane De Rooy"?
She didn't state that in her
posting.
>
How do you know for certain she's a she, have you heard "her" voice,
seen a
>picture?
Have you seen "her" published work, "her" credentials, met
"her" for
>coffee....
Well
according to your own theory Sherri, seeing as I never spoke to JD
Salinger,
seen a picture of him, or met him, does that mean he does not exist?
>
>Since
there is a controversy, it seems to me that it's good for people to
>question
events that might have an effect on the recovery of stolen items as
>well
as the mis-handling of the irreplaceable archives of Jack Kerouac's
work.
>
>
>I'm
sorry, Lisa, but your e-mail seems suspect to me... I would prefer to be
>wrong
on this, but at this point it certainly doesn't ring true.
And
here is email I got from Membabe herself:
X-POP3-Rcpt:
lisar@serv01
Return-Path:
MemBabe@aol.com
From:
MemBabe@aol.com
Date:
Fri, 28 Mar 1997 00:38:23 -0500 (EST)
To:
MemBabe@aol.com
Subject:
beat generation chatroom updates
Note:
you are one of 65 people receiving this letter. If you don't want to
continue
to be one of 65 people receiving mail from me, please let me know
right
away. You know how expensive postage is these days....
Hey,
everybody...
Life
goes too fast and I fall behind too quickly. Never entrust me with these
important
tasks; I'm too easily overextended...
ANNOUNCEMENTS.................................................................
<snip>
And
considering that I haven't spoken to 3/4 of the people on the list here
personally,
met them, had coffee with them nor shared in their lives, which
includes
you sherri, maybe you do not exist either.
ttfn.
lisa
--
Lisa M. Rabey Computer Consultant UIN: 1231211
************************************************************
words...1000's of words.. wrapped
together like wire
how easy it would be to
hate you
and yet that is all i can
show you.
Nothing lasts forever.
-me
http://www.bigendian.com/~simunye
mirror:
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
F.U.C.K. mirror:
http://www.samurai.com/~lisa/f.u.c.k
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 23:54:51 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: suspicious, but perhaps unfounded.
Comments:
To: stauffer@pacbell.net
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
James
Stauffer wrote:
. But
>
somehow if this "person" disagrees with the Nicosia/Kirby position in
>
this matter they graduate to being part of the evil Sampas gang, with
>
its tentacles reaching from Lowell to Seattle.
Funny, isn't it.
Well
James, I am not Gerry Nicosia and I certainly don't agree with
everything
he says. But I also am interested in
facts seeing the light
of
day. If Gerry is wrong about something,
then prove it out. No
problem. But what if there is a conspiracy to damage
Gerry? How do you
know
there is not? So, let the thread die as
it was before the other
post
started me up again. I will do my best
to do so.
As Jo
Grant has already pointed out tonight, if Martha Mayo did make
those
statements, they are not true. And the
real problem is the lack
of care
for the audio tapes, and barring people from listening to them.
So just
because you disagree, or think Gerry sees a conspiracy behind
every
tree, doesn't meant that one does not exist.
Maybe Gerry just
sees
more than there are?
In any
event, I hope this dies a death right now and will do my best to
let it
die.
Let's
get back to some vital discussion of vital literature.
How
about his topic. Poets view and
treatment of God. Let's start with
Ferlinghetti's
new book, A Far Rockaway of the Heart.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:09:36 -0700
Reply-To: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: Re: suspicious, but perhaps unfounded.
In-Reply-To: <33B9D0D5.42E2@pacbell.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I don't
think an anonymous person would set up a website on their webpage
dedicated
to Kerouac.
http://members.aol.com/membabe
But
then again, im a smart ass, what do I know.
ttfn.
lisa
--
Lisa M. Rabey Computer Consultant UIN: 1231211
************************************************************
words...1000's of words.. wrapped
together like wire
how easy it would be to
hate you
and yet that is all i can
show you.
Nothing lasts forever.
-me
http://www.bigendian.com/~simunye
mirror:
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
F.U.C.K. mirror:
http://www.samurai.com/~lisa/f.u.c.k
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 04:27:01 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: suspicious, but perhaps unfounded.
My
point exactly, Lisa...
I just
think that perhaps the whole thing should be looked at very carefully
and
objectively so the truth can come out.
The last thing I want to see is a
great
writer's archives lost to the public, among other things...
Btw, I
didn't mean to be offensive... just
wanted you to consider the
possibility
that you may have been or are being duped ...
Let's
let it die a noble death here <hands
Lisa the olive branch, and holds
out her
hand>...
Ciao,
Sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Lisa M. Rabey
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 1997 8:44 PM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: suspicious, but perhaps unfounded.
At
02:50 AM 7/2/97 UT, you wrote:
>My,
my such a rabid response for a rather innocuous e-mail from Bentz...
>
>Since
this is not you personally being drawn under question, why so excited?
>Also,
how do you know that she's membabe? How
do I know that you're not one
>and
the same person as "Diane De Rooy"?
She didn't state that in her
posting.
>
How do you know for certain she's a she, have you heard "her" voice,
seen a
>picture?
Have you seen "her" published work, "her" credentials, met
"her" for
>coffee....
Well
according to your own theory Sherri, seeing as I never spoke to JD
Salinger,
seen a picture of him, or met him, does that mean he does not exist?
>
>Since
there is a controversy, it seems to me that it's good for people to
>question
events that might have an effect on the recovery of stolen items as
>well
as the mis-handling of the irreplaceable archives of Jack Kerouac's
work.
>
>
>I'm
sorry, Lisa, but your e-mail seems suspect to me... I would prefer to be
>wrong
on this, but at this point it certainly doesn't ring true.
And
here is email I got from Membabe herself:
X-POP3-Rcpt:
lisar@serv01
Return-Path:
MemBabe@aol.com
From:
MemBabe@aol.com
Date:
Fri, 28 Mar 1997 00:38:23 -0500 (EST)
To:
MemBabe@aol.com
Subject:
beat generation chatroom updates
Note:
you are one of 65 people receiving this letter. If you don't want to
continue
to be one of 65 people receiving mail from me, please let me know
right
away. You know how expensive postage is these days....
Hey,
everybody...
Life
goes too fast and I fall behind too quickly. Never entrust me with these
important
tasks; I'm too easily overextended...
ANNOUNCEMENTS.................................................................
<snip>
And
considering that I haven't spoken to 3/4 of the people on the list here
personally,
met them, had coffee with them nor shared in their lives, which
includes
you sherri, maybe you do not exist either.
ttfn.
lisa
--
Lisa M. Rabey Computer Consultant
UIN: 1231211
************************************************************
words...1000's of words.. wrapped
together like wire
how easy it would be to
hate you
and yet that is all i can
show you.
Nothing lasts forever.
-me
http://www.bigendian.com/~simunye
mirror:
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
F.U.C.K. mirror:
http://www.samurai.com/~lisa/f.u.c.k
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 00:48:42 -0400
Reply-To: Ddrooy@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: who am i?
I've
spent the last 46 years asking myself that...
Is this
the usual sort of response on newsgroups? I'm relatively new to this
and
don't honestly know.
An
excerpt from my post:
<<I've
been in touch with people who could only be described as secondary to
the
life of jack kerouac, asking questions and assembling a feature story.
There
are also many people I have not met or interviewed. But two of the
people
I have interviewed by phone and through thousands of words in letters
are Rod
Anstee and Gerry Nicosia. I had the opportunity to form opinions
about
both these men independently, si>>
I
assume both Rod and Gerry would vouch for my existence, and the fact that
I'm
female. I also have a listed phone number in Seattle and would certainly
be
interested in hearing from anyone who had anything of value to contribute
to my
own research, or to make factual corrections.
If, at
any time I discover I've been misled, or that I am in any way wrong
about
what I've found to be true, I will be overjoyed to make a corrective
post. I
should think everyone would be, in the interest of truth.
Please
don't duke it out on the list, though. Please feel free to address me
directly
at either of my email addresses (membabe@aol.com or ddrooy@aol.com)
or by
phone here in Seattle. I'm more than happy to respond, up to the point
where
it would become a violation of my privacy.
ddr
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 01:01:14 -0400
Reply-To: Marioka7@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: automatic writing
Comments:
To: stand666@bitstream.net
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable
In a
message dated 97-07-01 12:08:32 EDT, you write:
<<
When
I first started writing I borrowed Andre
Breton's method of automatic
writing=97I think Jack K called it
spontaneous prose or whatever. He
must've read Breton at some point; Celine,
etc.
>>
yes, i think automatic writing is great
for getting a whole lot of s=
hit
out and
juxtaposing things you normally wouldn't if you thought about it =
too
consciously...but
then afterwards it help to "weed out" the boring crappy
stuff....
some people may say that makes it less
'authentic', but I think they=
're
just
not willing to admit that some of their thoughts might be boring and=
not
worthy
of others' reading them.
automatic writing is an excellent
exercise, esp. if you have writer'=
s
block. First thing in the morning is best too,
because you're still unde=
r
the
influence of dreams.
---------------just
a thought-----------maya
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 01:04:31 -0400
Reply-To: Marioka7@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: God <<still digging>>
Comments:
To: dcarter@together.net
In a
message dated 97-07-01 11:22:13 EDT, you write:
<< Can you even start to imagine what grasping
the wholeness of human
knowledge
and the universe in one instant would be
like? >>
ummm.......actually?.......yes!
---maya
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 01:53:35 -0400
Reply-To: Marioka7@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: the beat (en) horse/summer reading
update
i vote
visions of cody. never read it, never
even thought of reading it
before.
i figure, 'what the hell' i might as well. never was much into
kerouac
(on the road was too much like my life, and i don't like reading
about
myself much! too boring)
so i
will try it, and perhaps i will say, "i do! i do! I Iike VOC! I like it
here,
there, and everywhere!"
---maya
ps: can
someone please tell WSB to stop sneaking into my dreans? It's really
distracting
me. I can't focus at work anymore. I
keep seeing his face. He
even
made me sit on his lap in one dream. I
can't take it any more. I mean,
he
doesn't even LIKE girls, right? What a
creep!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 08:39:54 -0500
Reply-To: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: suspicious, but perhaps
unfounded.& then
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
i too,
confess, i found much to interest me in the recent controversy,
I
percieved diane to be sincere and much appreciated her post. i
disagreed
with her assumptions, as the idea that no original material
was in
the memory babe archives.That didn't seeem likely to me. I too
would
like to see someone visit and be able to take notes. I have had
experiance
with a library in missouri that had intervertantly lost half
of a
small collection , they lied and covered up and blamed the poor
artist
for lying, a big shot alum finally got involved and they finally
admitted
that a staff person had let someone take material home and when
it was
returned much was missing. Institutions are not as forthcoming as
one
would hope.. I wish that i felt more secure about the memory babe
material
but my primary concern in that controversy was not the theft of
materials
and access to that collection (here i shout, pardon) IT IS THE
JK
ARCHIVES. Unhappily the only thing i could sense we could do is to
communicate
to all factors that jk material should be treated with
respect
and be watchful.
archive
poem
the old
horse raises it head
once
shot they believed it dead
struggling
it rises
joins
the ring of ponies
riding
the necronauts
in
their circle of fame.
patricia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 23:24:38 +0000
Reply-To: wirtz@ridgecrest.ca.us
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike & Barbara Wirtz
<wirtz@RIDGECREST.CA.US>
Subject: Chat Site
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Hi
there,
I spoke with the creator of Optichat,
and he said he'd be glad to
create
a room for those with Beat interests.
(awfully nice of him)
Anyhow,
he maintains two sites: one which I prefer is an automatic
scroll...there
are no private commands...it's public chat, but there are
no
monitors..only a filter...can't say fuck etc ...but I have been
fairly
lucky in being able to express my ideas without needing that
particular
word...and it's so much fun being colorful in a new and
twisted
way, anyhow. The chat is fast there,
too...almost like irc.
The
other option is the beta room...where html commands work (so you can
talk
privately)
Well, I'm just acting on a suggestion
I saw earlier...I think a good
one. I'd like to see how you think/react/chat in
"real" time.
Dan
also said if someone who knows html wanted to design the entry page
(if
beta were chosen) that would be just groovy.
Maybe
those interested could go check it out tomorrow and we can see
what
folks think.
The address is
http://www.optichat.com/
I will
be in the first optichat (scroll down, choose the chat on the
left
hand side of the page....I'll be there 7pm West Coast time...that
would
be 10 East Coast time (those of you in the middle....you'll have
to do
your own math!). For now...lets meet in
Babblemania (seems sort
of
Kerouac-like anyhow)...Hope to meet some of you for some input.
Thanks,
Barb
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 01:33:35 -0500
Reply-To: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Diane DeRooy: suspicious, but
perhaps unfounded.
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19970701184421.007c2300@smtp.net-link.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
RE:
Diane De Rooy
I have
communicated with Diane on a number of occasions. She has been
working
on a Jan Kerouac article for quite some time, has had disagreements
with
Gerry Nicosia regarding Keroauc material, sources, etc. Diane ended up
very
"turned-off" by Gerry. Unfortunate IMO, but no big deal. Gerry's busy
and
Diane was taking up
Her
latest post states that Martha Mayo, Special Collections librarian says
anypone--with
a few days notice--can have access to the Memory Babe
Collection.
Rod Anstee, according to Diane, confirms this. Diane may
believe
what they tell her. I do not.
I know
of scholars who have been turned away.
On
another note, the recipe for Caesar salad dressing she sent me yesterday
looks
like it might be a winner. since it's my daughters favorite dressing
I'll
let her be the judge.
j grant
At
06:28 PM 6/30/97 -0400, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
>>Has
anyone on the list ever heard of Diane De Rooy.
>
>I
have swapped mail with membabe@aol.com on various topics such as irc.
>
>>
I ran a 411 search
>>and
turned up nothing. I ran one on my
email address and got me.
>
>I
went to www.four11.com and did a NAME search on you. You did not show up
>in
R. Bentz Kirby, Bentz Kirby, or the last name of Kirby. So does this
>mean
youd on't exist? And as far as the web search engines work, they only
>work
if YOU yourself put your name in OR someone buys your name off the
>list.
just because someone does NOT show up in the web search means they do
>not
exist.
>
>I
also did a search on Charles Bukowski: Three email addresses
> Charles Plymell: No
matches
> James Stauffer: 23
Matches
> Jack Kerouac: No Match
> William S.
Burroughs: No match
>So
do these people not exist because you did not find them at
>www.four11.com?
Hardly.
>
>>
So, I
>>am
very curious about this. I know that
there have been phantom posts
>>from
aol before and that Jerry C. smoked some of those out. If Diane is
>>a
real person, I apologize to her, but this post seems very suspicious
>>and
the timing makes it even more so. I
apologize, for an off topic
>>post.
>
>
>As
for your "comptence" doing websearch, if you were my lawyer, I would
>have
fired you long ago for 'incomptence". Membabe is a very real person
>and
one *I* have corresponded with in the past about various and sundry
>things.
>
>SO
before you go doing "searches" why don't you actually do a search.
She
>mentioned
I believe that she lives in Seattle (or thereabouts) nothing to
>look
her up in the phonebook or do a search though DMV seeing as you are
>such
"the lawyer".
>
>ttfn.
>
>lisa
>--
>
> Lisa M. Rabey Computer Consultant UIN: 1231211
>
************************************************************
> words...1000's of words.. wrapped
together like wire
> how easy it would be to
hate you
> and yet that is all i can show you.
> Nothing lasts forever.
-me
>
>
http://www.bigendian.com/~simunye
> mirror:
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
> F.U.C.K. mirror: http://www.samurai.com/~lisa/f.u.c.k
BE ON THE WATCH
for
items stolen from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic
& Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
313,599 visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:38:32 -0400
Reply-To: Marioka7@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: morning sickness
morning
sickness
what
cancerous pregnancy ails me now?
I
thought they had beaten it out of me,
but it
seems my grotesque child
is
still alive and kicking.
Oh, i
would that I could expel it
instead
of suffering the rest of the term
but
it's tenacious like a tumor
and
germinates like a germ.
Im not
talking about the usual uterus
but a
more fertile womb
the
blood-red cavern within my skull
that
will keep on birthing until the tomb.
my mind
is aching...I think it will be soon!
(spontaneous
poem written between 10:30 and 10:34 am today wednesday)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 08:30:56 -0400
Reply-To: MATT HANNAN
<MATT.HANNAN@OTC.USOC.CCHUB.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MATT HANNAN
<MATT.HANNAN@OTC.USOC.CCHUB.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: suspicious, but perhaps
unfounded.
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
<snips>
How do
we know that anyone is anyone if we haven't met them and even
then if
they are who they say they are.
The
whole list may just be one big multiple personality illusion.
I
cannot help but think that there is something about this debate that
produces
dementia. It's a trip to the twilight
zone. Everytime it
surfaces
the strangest allegations start to be made.
graduate to being part of the evil Sampas
gang, with its tentacles
reaching from Lowell to Seattle. Funny, isn't it.
<end el snips>
Y'all have much more invested in this
than me, that's for sure. It
brings to mind some of the great events
in history:
"Mr. Reagan"
"Yes, Senator McCarthy"
"Are you a communist?"
or
"Why can't we all just get
along"
or, best put
Ginsberg (as Alvah Goldbook in DB)
"I know my redeemer liveth"
Kerouac (as Ray Smith) "What
redeemer and what liveth?"
(there, managed to work a Beat quote in
that covers two recent hot
topics on the list)
love and lilies,
matt
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:49:33 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: Diane
MIME-Version:
1.0
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Diane
De Rooy:
Thank
you for your posts back channel. I have
spoken through email with
Jo
Grant and others who have quelled my unfounded suspions. I hope that
you
will continue your research. I have
reason to believe that what
Mayo
told you is not necessarily true. But
for now, it does not matter.
Hopefully
the tapes can be protected and made available within the
parameters
of the law.
I
apologize if my query offended you. I
did not intend to do that. I
had
hoped the thread you raised had died and intend to let it die
myself.
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:53:19 -0400
Reply-To: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: who am i?
In-Reply-To:
<970702004805_-858194005@emout12.mail.aol.com>
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Diane
De Rooy: welcome! you are a breath of fresh air here, and i am
delighted
to see that you wrote :
Please
don't duke it out on the list, though. Please feel free to address me
directly
at either of my email addresses (membabe@aol.com or ddrooy@aol.com)
or by
phone here in Seattle. I'm more than happy to respond, up to the point
where
it would become a violation of my privacy.
as
flame wars have erupted and engulfed the list, this last ration of
ridiculousness
re: your real/unreal presence only a small example.
like
your style
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:53:22 -0400
Reply-To: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: summer reading update
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i vote
for Cody. at the same time, on my HST jag, i've drugged and drunk
meself
through fear and loathing in los vegas (i too failed to find the
american
dream)
am now
halfway through hog heaven (hells
angels) and soon to be rolling in
the
letters.
so if
it's visions of cody/first third
i'll
keep up with discussion as it unfolds.
gotta
go, they're at my door with timing chains and gallons of motor oil ..
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 07:57:15 +0000
Reply-To: wirtz@ridgecrest.ca.us
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike & Barbara Wirtz
<wirtz@RIDGECREST.CA.US>
Subject: Re: Chat Site
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Sherri...once
you type in your name..or pseudo..and hit enter, you will
go into
the main menu where you can see the list of rooms and who is in
them. Underneath will be a bar...click,hold,and
scroll to the room you
want.
click on it, and you're there! See you!
Sherri
wrote:
>
>
cool barb... how does one access Babblemania?
Sherri
>
>
----------
>
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on
behalf of Mike & Barbara Wirtz
>
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 1997 4:24 PM
>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
Subject: Chat Site
>
> Hi
there,
> I spoke with the creator of Optichat,
and he said he'd be glad to
>
create a room for those with Beat interests.
(awfully nice of him)
>
Anyhow, he maintains two sites: one which I prefer is an automatic
>
scroll...there are no private commands...it's public chat, but there are
> no
monitors..only a filter...can't say fuck etc ...but I have been
>
fairly lucky in being able to express my ideas without needing that
>
particular word...and it's so much fun being colorful in a new and
>
twisted way, anyhow. The chat is fast
there, too...almost like irc.
>
The other option is the beta room...where html commands work (so you can
>
talk privately)
> Well, I'm just acting on a suggestion
I saw earlier...I think a good
>
one. I'd like to see how you
think/react/chat in "real" time.
>
Dan also said if someone who knows html wanted to design the entry page
>
(if beta were chosen) that would be just groovy.
>
Maybe those interested could go check it out tomorrow and we can see
>
what folks think.
> The address is
http://www.optichat.com/
>
> I
will be in the first optichat (scroll down, choose the chat on the
>
left hand side of the page....I'll be there 7pm West Coast time...that
>
would be 10 East Coast time (those of you in the middle....you'll have
> to
do your own math!). For now...lets meet
in Babblemania (seems sort
> of
Kerouac-like anyhow)...Hope to meet some of you for some input.
>
Thanks,
>
Barb
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 23:03:23 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: summer reading project
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James,
My
unofficial calculations show Vision of Cody in the lead. Should we
just go
for it at this point? What do you want
to read?
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 08:21:10 -0700
Reply-To: runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner711
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: God <<still digging>>
In-Reply-To:
<970702010429_-991644834@emout03.mail.aol.com>
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At
10:04 PM -0700 7/1/97, Maya Gorton wrote:
> In
a message dated 97-07-01 11:22:13 EDT, you write:
>
>
<< Can you even start to imagine
what grasping the wholeness of human
>
knowledge
> and the universe in one instant would be
like? >>
>
>
ummm.......actually?.......yes!
Maya,
I've decided you're ugly lookin..... <<laugh>> with my eyeballs
direcly
at you <<smirk>> ;-)
>
---maya
Douglas <<still laughin, I might be
dyin....>>
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ let the man come thru
stand
up, and let the man come thru
let the man come thru
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 08:21:36 -0700
Reply-To: runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner711
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: automatic writing
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At
10:01 PM -0700 7/1/97, Maya Gorton wrote:
> automatic writing is an excellent exercise, esp. if you have
writer's
>
block. First thing in the morning is
best too, because you're still under
>
the influence of dreams.
dreamed
I was in chicago, trying to track down some friends. they'd all
moved,
I had the wrong apartments, or the city itself had changed. there
were
hills where I remembered none. there
were fields of weeds where there
should
be none. Who am I? cops were chasing young kids down into dirt
lots. They're that way, I said.
maybe
automatic writing is a way to find your friends, the one's you've
lost
for whatever reason, the what not. and
finding them, holding them,
fucking
holding them, tight and tight and tight still I could squeeze the
life
essence out of em. that is my
dream. yes. <<it is>>
Diana,
Claudine,
Sean... where are you?
>
>
---------------just a thought-----------maya
Douglas <<on a thread of his own>>
PS: Maya, what were those <<bells>>
that you heard???
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ let the man come thru
stand
up, and let the man come thru
let the man come thru
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:02:12 +0200
Reply-To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: btw
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dear
friends, im' reading "La leggenda di Duluoz" [THE LEGEND OF DULUOZ]
by Jack
Keroauc, edit by Ann Charters, JK works are a long bestseller here
in
italy!--- yrs Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:05:28 +0200
Reply-To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: pier paolo pasolini.
In-Reply-To: <l03020901afdecd9a5505@[198.5.212.50]>
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Douglas
wrote:
[s/thing
snipped for brevity]
>don't
know Ezra Pound at all
>"Salo"
by piero pasolini has my love
>a
fetching carrot, // Douglas
dear
Douglas,
pier
paolo has his brother killed by
fascists
during the italian civil
war in
1945, this was,
a
thread in his works (poetries&films),
his
first film "Accattone" was a milestone
'cuz
introduce the vernacular language &
actors
street urchin (neorealismo).
pier paolo
pasolini was killed in a cruel
way in
1975,
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
*
"E
cosi' ce ne andremo perdendo a una a una
Anche
le parole piu' care, ed arrivando
Fino a
Dio con carte bianche, ma forse
con
visi piu' sereni: mon lecteur, mon frere"
poetry
by venetian poet Giacomo Noventa
*
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:18:19 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: suspicious, but perhaps
unfounded.
Comments:
To: MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@OTC.USOC.CCHUB.COM>
In-Reply-To: <3BA68810.@otc.usoc.cchub.com>
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On Wed,
2 Jul 1997, MATT HANNAN wrote:
>
<snips>
>
How do we know that anyone is anyone if we haven't met them and even
>
then if they are who they say they are.
<snip>
dementia
is right
the
secret is nobody is anything, the secret is that objectivity is never
there
(except maybe in ayn rand's mind) and gregory corso "you never step in
the
same river _once_."
or the
voice that's either in or out of james cole's mind:
"no
way to con_firm_ anything."
Michael
Stutz
stutz@dsl.org
http://dsl.org/m/
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 16:51:10 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: suspicious, but perhaps
unfounded.
good
one matt <grins>
Ciao,
Sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
MATT HANNAN
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 1997 5:30 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re[2]: suspicious, but perhaps
unfounded.
<snips>
How do
we know that anyone is anyone if we haven't met them and even
then if
they are who they say they are.
The
whole list may just be one big multiple personality illusion.
I
cannot help but think that there is something about this debate that
produces
dementia. It's a trip to the twilight
zone. Everytime it
surfaces
the strangest allegations start to be made.
graduate to being part of the evil Sampas
gang, with its tentacles
reaching from Lowell to Seattle. Funny, isn't it.
<end el snips>
Y'all have much more invested in this
than me, that's for sure. It
brings to mind some of the great events
in history:
"Mr. Reagan"
"Yes, Senator McCarthy"
"Are you a communist?"
or
"Why can't we all just get
along"
or, best put
Ginsberg (as Alvah Goldbook in DB)
"I know my redeemer liveth"
Kerouac (as Ray Smith) "What
redeemer and what liveth?"
(there, managed to work a Beat quote in
that covers two recent hot
topics on the list)
love and lilies,
matt
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:16:20 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: suspicious tentacles
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Matt
writ:
><< or, best put
>
> Ginsberg (as Alvah Goldbook in DB)
"I know my redeemer liveth"
> Kerouac (as Ray Smith) "What redeemer
and what liveth?"
> (there, managed to work a Beat quote in
that covers two recent hot
> topics on the list)
>>
Yes,
but don't ask me to be the straight man.
Or the thin man. He
cometh!
This
list has a good mix of creative, academic, and pure Beat. IMHO, we
should
try to keep it like that. AND FEED OFF
EACH OTHER <ahem>.
Definitely
appreciated the tie-in there, Matt. Am
on my way to the
bookstore
tonite <<VOC, Port o' Kerouac,
??>>.
>
>> love and lilies,
>>
>> matt
Douglas <<tempting fate via backchannel, if
necessary>>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:14:08 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: summer reading project
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Diane
Carter wrote:
>
>
James,
>
> My
unofficial calculations show Vision of Cody in the lead. Should we
>
just go for it at this point? What do
you want to read?
>
> DC
I
unofficially checked out Cody today from the public library and will
probably
at least get one paragraph done before the afternoon siesta
takes
control of my being.
After
the first paragraph depends on whether i go to Denver tomorrow
which
is up to supernatural forces i'm not familiar with. Certainly
will
carry Cody along -- just not much certainty how many pages will be
digested.
If i go
the Denver route i look forward to a return to a thread about
this
Cody character and visions and whatnot.
If i don't make the Denver
expedition
i imagine that i'll be participating in the thread by
afternoon
tomorrow at this time.
if
another book takes the lead -- please let me know so that i can stop
reading
this one and go on a hunting expedition for that one. if i go
to
Denver i hope to increase my Beat library at used bookstores if they
exist.
shalom,
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:42:04 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: summer reading project
Comments:
To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
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At
12:14 PM 7/2/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Diane
Carter wrote:
>>
>>
James,
>>
>>
My unofficial calculations show Vision of Cody in the lead. Should we
>>
just go for it at this point? What do
you want to read?
>>
>>
DC
>
>I
unofficially checked out Cody today from the public library ...
What
does "unoficially checked out" mean?
Does
this mean you stole it?
If so,
don't do that. That messes things up
for everyone.
If you
want to steal this book steal it from a bookstore.
Or if
you don't want to buy it, officially check it out from the library.
If the
above doesn't mean you stole it then ignore this message.