=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:05:56 -0400
Reply-To: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: CODY: what murder?
In-Reply-To: <33C47BDA.74EA@together.net>
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>There
have been a couple of references so far to something about Bull and
>June
and a murder. Can't find the other
references at the moment
>but
here again on page 186, we have: "...on into August, and in between
>June
and August everything happened, the murder took place." Is this
>ever
explicated?
_____________
murder
of demented stalker of lucien carr by same. forget his name. andy
wharhol
was right/
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:18:25 -0700
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Re: CODY: what murder?
Comments:
To: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
MIME-Version:
1.0
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Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
>
_____________
>
murder of demented stalker of lucien carr by same. forget his name. andy
>
wharhol was right/
> mc
David
Kamerrer. Carr's obsessive gym coach or something like that...
adrien
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:11:19 -0700
Reply-To: Jens Koch <jenskoch@POST1.TELE.DK>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jens Koch
<jenskoch@POST1.TELE.DK>
Subject: To Cody it was a vision..
MIME-Version:
1.0
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I still
haven't caught up with all the posts on beat-l AND reading VOC at the
same time
as this
nation is going berserk over the heatwave and the
deeds
of Danish cyclists "on the road" in Tour de France, and on top of
that the
upcoming
Copenhagen visit by Bill Clinton, so if someone has already brought up
this
subject
please bear with me. Anyway, on p.64 (McGrawHill), it says, "To Cody it
was a
vision,
the moment of his arrival that everybody was waiting for, yet even
though he
stood
in the door at the side of the great cool Tom Watson the Virgil of this
big
Inferno..."
My
first question is who Tom Watson is supposed to be? My second, and most
important
question,
is to do with what "role" Dante, Virgil and the Divine Comedy can be
said to
have
had for Kerouac's own poetic vision ?
My own
only input, really, is that I know from the JK ROMnibus that Dante was
way up
high on
his own reading list; the second thing is that Kerouac's understanding
of beat
and
beatitude must have been inspired to some extent at least by Beatrice, the
women
Dante
was supposed to have fallen in love with as a child, and even though they
barely
knew
each other Dante was on a lifelong quest to regain her, finally meeting her
in
Paradiso.
When he first went to hell he was met by Virgil, his guide through the
many
layers.
Has
anyone any thoughts or information on this matter ?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:38:26 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: CODY: what murder?
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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At
01:05 PM 7/10/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>There
have been a couple of references so far to something about Bull and
>>June
and a murder. Can't find the other
references at the moment
>>but
here again on page 186, we have: "...on into August, and in between
>>June
and August everything happened, the murder took place." Is this
>>ever
explicated?
>_____________
>murder
of demented stalker of lucien carr by same. forget his name. andy
>wharhol
was right/
>mc
>
>
In the
tapes they were talking about Burroughs (Bull) killing his wife
(June). A lot of the tape is ttheir conversation of
what it was like when
Cody
was staying at Bull's farm in Texas with Irwin and Huck. Later they
are
talking about what happened in Mexico when Bull killed June. Cody asks
the
pretinent question of what Bull feels when he hears the William Tell
Overture. Bull's first story was that they were doing
a William Tell trick
where
he tried to shoot a glass off his wife's head but missed and killed
here. In the tape they talk later of how Bull
changed his story and said
the gun
went of accidentally.
There
is a lot of discussion in the tape about Bull.
Of course Bull is
William
Burroughs who killed his wife in Mexico City by shooting her at
close
range in the head. He was never
prosecuted for this.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:47:50 -0400
Reply-To: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: CODY: what murder?
In-Reply-To:
<l03020901afea8e8589d3@[206.25.67.129]>
MIME-Version:
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On Thu,
10 Jul 1997, Marie Countryman wrote:
>
>There have been a couple of references so far to something about Bull and
>
>June and a murder. Can't find the
other references at the moment
>
>but here again on page 186, we have: "...on into August, and in
between
>
>June and August everything happened, the murder took place." Is this
>
>ever explicated?
>
_____________
>
murder of demented stalker of lucien carr by same. forget his name. andy
>
wharhol was right/
David
Krammerer <sp?> or something like that.
The reason Kerouac and
Ginsberg,
I think, went to jail (asylum for Ginsy) and Kerouac got out by
marrying. Chronicled, I'm told, in the unpublished
(soon to be published
I
thinks I heard somewhere) _And_The_Hippos_Were_Boilded_in_Their_Tanks_.
------------------
Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@acs.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:13:34 -0500
Reply-To: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Diane De Rooy & MemBabeCollection
Mime-Version:
1.0
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text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Diane
De Rooy wrote to G. Nicosia:
>>And
let me caution you here: you are certainly free to write me one response
>>to
this letter, personally, at this address. If you opt for that, I will
>>accept
the letter, but after that, I'm blocking you from my email, and will
>>consider
any other contact from you to be harassment. If you infer, imply,
>>directly
state or otherwise opine in any public forum, in writing or
>>verbally,
that I am lying or am a liar, or attempt to discredit me or harm my
>>reputation
in any way, I will not demonstrate to you the good will and
>>tolerance
you've enjoyed from all the other people you've libeled and
>>slandered.
>>
>>Diane
De Rooy
Gerry Nicosia's answer was right to the
point. No need to repeat it.
Diane:
I'm
taking Patricia Elliots response to heart and sending this to the list.
I have
tried to give all parties to this conflict the benefit of the doubt.
I don't
like to judge. However, since I think I was the person who put you
in
touch with Gerry Nicosia when you told meyou were involved with writing
a story
about JK and/or Jan K , I have to state that I am completely
perplexed
at where this has gone and seems to be
going.
I do
not question that you have authored articles and done some features
for
NPR--although I have not read any of them, nor heard them. You tellme
youhave.
I believe you. Yet there are so many elements that would have
provided
you with answers to questions you were asking that seem to have
been
missed.
The
catalogue, of what U.MassLowell purchased from Gerry, had to be a key
element
in your research. The catalogue has been mentioned frequrently over
the past
couple of months. You know that most collections are catalogued
yet it
appears you have never requested a copy from the library. This would
have
shown that Gerry's description of the collection was true, and that
what
you have been told--that the collection contained no original
material--was
a lie. That alone, should have made you suspect of some of
your
sources.
Sometimes,
when a person gets caught up in a story--a story that's
important
to them--and the information they want isn't forthcoming, they
allow a
not-unusual-incident (such as Gerry refusing you access to certain
information/material)
to adversely affect your judgement about that person.
I think
this has happened to you.
I can
claim no succes as a writer, but I have some skills at research. As a
researcher
I would advise you to reevaluate the direction your research is
taking
you and to step back for an objective look at where you find
yourself
and who you appear to be aligning yourself with.
THIS TO
GERRY NICOSIA:
Gerry,
There
appear to be a few people who are going to be taking shots at you
regardless of what the facts are. Sometimes it's
difficult to ignore
unwarrented
accusations. Please try to do so. I, as a Korean War vet, along
with
vets from all recent wars and particularly the vets from the Vietnam
War,
are waiting for one of the most important publishing events to come
out of
that war, the history of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War--the
VVAW
movement. With 58,000 dead in that war and another 58,000 suicides and
drug
deaths of returned Vietnam Vets, HOME TO WAR is being counted on to
provide
desperately needed information about the indespensible role
veterans
played in ending that war. Hopefully it will provide a closure to
the
suffering of those to talk, but are seldom heard, and those who
demonstrate,
but are seldom seen.
Write
On Gerry. Ignore the distractions. At least for now.
j grant
BE ON THE WATCH
for
items stolen from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic
& Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
375,913 visitors from 07-96 to 07-97
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:23:37 -0500
Reply-To: thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jennifer Thompson <thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU>
Subject: chat
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
i tried
the chat room. no one there. i asked some people if they
were
list members, and received several "huhs?" in response.
anyhow,
i'll probably be lurking there on mon.s and thurs. around 2 p.m.
indiana
time, whatever that is.
hope to
see some of you there.
jenn
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:24:08 EDT
Reply-To: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Diane DeRooy & Membabe Collection
It
seems to me that the letter forwarded to the list by Jo Grant was a
private
communication between two people and should not have been
reposted
to the list. I urge listmembers with
any feelings on this
matter
to communicate them directly to Mr. Grant rather than to post
such
replies to the list.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:33:08 -0400
Reply-To: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: jo grant/nicosia
In-Reply-To: <v03007802afe96a48dc7e@[156.46.45.77]>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
i would
like to add my voice to jo grant's request that you forge on with
the
book that so many vets AND nonvets have waited for so long. your Memory
Babe,
despite all the whoolawhoola that has come to pass on this list, is
one of
the most brillant pieces of literary autobiography written and in my
opinion
the best.
mc
>>Gerry,
>
>There
appear to be a few people who are going to be taking shots at you
>regardless of what the facts are. Sometimes it's
difficult to ignore
>unwarrented
accusations. Please try to do so. I, as a Korean War vet, along
>with
vets from all recent wars and particularly the vets from the Vietnam
>War,
are waiting for one of the most important publishing events to come
>out
of that war, the history of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War--the
>VVAW
movement. With 58,000 dead in that war and another 58,000 suicides and
>drug
deaths of returned Vietnam Vets, HOME TO WAR is being counted on to
>provide
desperately needed information about the indespensible role
>veterans
played in ending that war. Hopefully it will provide a closure to
>the
suffering of those to talk, but are seldom heard, and those who
>demonstrate,
but are seldom seen.
>
>Write
On Gerry. Ignore the distractions. At least for now.
>
>j
grant
>
>
>
>
>
> BE ON THE WATCH
>for
items stolen from the Keroauc Collection
> O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
>http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
>
>Academic
& Small Press Authors & publishers
> display books free at
> <http://www.bookzen.com>
> 375,913 visitors from 07-96 to 07-97
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:34:58 -0500
Reply-To: thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jennifer Thompson
<thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU>
Subject: not beat related list question
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
WARNING:
this question isn't beat related, feel free to delete.
well,
for the few of you left. does anyone
know of a list, or chat room,
that
would be appropriate for a would-be, wanna be, Poe scholar. (not me,
a
friend).
i'd
appreciate any input.
jenn
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:21:00 -0500
Reply-To: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Bill Gargon
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Bill,
Regarding
the De Rooy - Nicosia post. I must have missed where the post
came
from. Thought it was the Beat-L. Must have been sent directly to me.
Sorry
for the inconvenience.
j grant
BE ON THE WATCH
for
items stolen from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic
& Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
375,913 visitors from 07-96 to 07-97
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:32:25 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Course
Yeah,
good idea. He wants me to do anything I think up.
Charley
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:48:57 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Fwd: CORNIX and VORTEX
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable
My
vortex has been glommed onto. The
following post should be of relevan=
ce
to some
on the beat-list which started me and Buchenroth on this train. =
I
don't
know if it relates to beat poetry; it might be too fast.
Charles
Plymell
---------------------
Forwarded
message:
From: mike@infinet.com (Michael L. Buchenroth)
Reply-to: mike@infinet.com
To: CVEditions@aol.com
Date:
97-07-10 08:43:41 EDT
CVEditions@aol.com
wrote:
>=20
>
PS: What does glom mean?
Wow!
That's a real good question. I could only find the following
contexts
to try to get a meaning...
As near
as I can figure, I think, this personal example might represent
what
they mean by glom...
At Ross
I can not get the Cornix Java Scripts to run. I can only get
them to
run here at home. At work I have to have all necessary files in
a
subdirectory along with the cornix file and run the cornix file with
my
browser (I use Netscape) right off my hard drive rather than the
internet...
I guess glom might be synomous with "works." I'm not being
sarcastic,
just attempting, as you, to figure out what they use 'glom'
to
mean!
Perhaps
glomming will allow AOL web users to run the scripts, "In the
new AOL
glom version, all other text fields or views within the AOL
interface
are accessable to the Vortex. This includes the AOL email
reader.
As well as news and other displays which are local to AOL and
not
accessed via the internet."
Note:
Vortex, NG (Next Generation) will have the ability to glom your
browser
the same way that we are today glomming email readers in our
current
versions. Anyone accepted for the beta test version of the
Cornix
applet has already had their name added to the beta test group
for
Vortex NG.
Letters
of notification will be sent out soon.=20
***
The
unique Vortex display is currently being altered to provide glomming
support
to Lotus ccMail. Preliminary tests are underway with an
expectation
that this new version will be available by the 29th of July,
1997.=20
Vortex
now can glom AOL 3.0! Read your AOL email and news with Vortex!
Please
note that Vortex support for the AOL interface is limited to
version
3.0 of their program and does not support their internet
browser.
As is done in the currently shipping versions, you must save
web
pages to disk in order to open and read them in Vortex. In the new
AOL
glom version, all other text fields or views within the AOL
interface
are accessable to the Vortex. This includes the
AOL
email reader. As well as news and other displays which are local to
AOL and
not accessed via the internet.
***
Here's
another contet: (I especially like this line, "...glom onto it
like
some space alien software, and suck out the contents of the message
to be
read."
***
Glomming
Eudora! with Vortex=99=20
Quick
Reference
To glom
your Vortex reading tool onto Eudora for reading your email,
please
follow the steps below.
1 -
Start Vortex.=20
a -
When Vortex is up and running, click on the =91Attach=92 menu item. T=
his
menu
item will then change to =91Detach=92 to indicate readiness and to
allow
you to go back to regular file mode.=20
b -
Minimize Vortex.=20
2 -
Start Eudora.=20
a -
Using Eudora normally, retrieve your email for reading.=20
b -
Choose an email to read. When it comes into its regular Eudora
window,
you can either progress to
step 3
or to 2- c.=20
c - For
long emails, you can locate the section that you wish to read,
and
highlight it. Then proceed to step 3.=20
3 -
Maximize Vortex.=20
It is
the act of maximizing Vortex that is the trigger to hunt for
Eudora,
glom onto it like some space alien software, and suck out the
contents
of the message to be read.=20
4 -
Return to Eudora.=20
When
Vortex has finished the display of the email message, it will
return
to a minimized state unless in stopped mode.=20
Internet
browser support
Our
plans for glomming and control ability for internet browsers are on
track
and still to schedule. We expect that a release of the new Vortex
Win32
version featuring internet browser glom and remote control will
hip on
schedule in early August.=20
This
version will work only with Windows 95 and Windows NT.
***
I
looked 'glom' up in Princeton's WordNet. I get only verb with this one
sense:
Sense 1
steal,
hook, snitch, thieve, cop, knock off, glom, take illegally --
(take
by theft)
=3D>
take -- (take by force; "Hitler took the Baltic Republics"; "The
arm=
y
took
the fort on the hill")
***
I hoped
to get a word that related to Cornix's web pages... The army
glommed
the fort on the hill???? Certainly new to me!!!
***
I just
got this beta version of an interface to the WordNet database. It
searches
words that ryhme with nother word and at same time within a
specifed
semantical context or whatever. =20
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dougb/rhyme.html
WordNet
is at http://www.cogsci.princeton.edu/~wn/
I use
WordNet frequently! I have used its "grep" search which is an old
Unix
command for searching out "all" occurances of character
combinations
within a database. WordNet contains the largest English
Lexicon
electronic database I have yet found out there! So when wordNet
grep
searches for some letters, it searches the English language!
Consequently,
it can consume some serious time if the letters occur
commonly.
For example, a search of all occurances of the characters red,
WordNet
would take a while, but would display every occurance,
hyphenated
included... I used it to find rhymes. Now these folks are
writing
interfaces to do this, but defined or with semantical
boundaries.
What could Poe have written with such tools?
***
I sure
don't intend to preach or teach, just share stuff I've found on
web
useful... If Charles hadn't written to me about the Cornix site, I
would
not have found it. It really interests me. As I wrote earlier, I
have
used machines (file stripe projectors modified) that did same thing
but
projected on screen. I have researched subliminal projection, even
talked
to Dr Becker several times on phone and corresponded by letters,
and he
and Vicary patented the original subliminal projection device!
This
type of stuff 100% interests me. I have a huge huge collection of
photocopies
of research on subliminal perception and effect. Dr. Wilson
B Key
told me once after a lecture in Michigan, I had the largest such
bibliography
he'd ever heard about. He had invited me to that lecture at
Albion
College in 1980. I was extremely grateful Charles and Michael
shared
this cornix site with me!!!!=20
-Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:56:48 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: ATTN: BEAT-LIST POETS
In a
message dated 97-07-10 09:36:04 EDT, you write:
<<
by the way, mr buchenroth, after all these years your little web site
> with the exploding text has added
something to my reading. kool! ouch,
> my mind it keeps expanding.
> p >>
It
might end up with Lord Buckley, that old wig stretcher himself.
Charley
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 01:19:22 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Course
I would
be very very interested in this... please keep me posted!!
ciao,
sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Pamela Beach Plymell
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 1997 5:32 PM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Course
Yeah,
good idea. He wants me to do anything I think up.
Charley
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 01:28:26 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: ATTN: BEAT-LIST POETS
His
Lordship!!!!! yasss, yasss dig that
cat, man
for
those of you interested:
http://www.industrialhaiku.com/Lord_Buckley_Online.html
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Pamela Beach Plymell
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 1997 5:56 PM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: ATTN: BEAT-LIST POETS
In a
message dated 97-07-10 09:36:04 EDT, you write:
<<
by the way, mr buchenroth, after all these years your little web site
> with the exploding text has added
something to my reading. kool! ouch,
> my mind it keeps expanding.
> p >>
It
might end up with Lord Buckley, that old wig stretcher himself.
Charley
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:56:01 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: asterisks
It may
have been that the metaphor with the "fucked over' connotation came in
spontanieous
hipster language; then the "sex
act" meaning came so something
had to
be done. While fuck got past the censors
literal motherfucking would
have
caused publishers to back off. Better to follow the bouncing asterisks
and
Allen could have all the connotations. He made tradeoffs. Literary
gamesmanship
for censorship. What fun we have with this.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:20:38 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Cody: the tape
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Finally
made it to the end of the taped section, am beginning Imitation
of the
Tape section. These are the things I
found most interesting in
the
very slow going taped part.
pg.
170-173 When they are reading a letter
from Cody's father, three
pages
of speculation about the words he has trouble spelling combined
with a
few of Codys memories, like "We went fouteen thousand miles
according
to what he tells me..."
Pg. 182
Jack
bragging like he needs to fit in, after all of Cody's stories,
"--because
all I thought about then was eating and fucking, see, as I
should,
as all men should all the time."
Pg. 187
Jack's
description of quitting sports for writing: "One afternoon it
started
to snow, Beethoven came on, it was time for me to go to
scrimmage...I
said to myself, 'Scrimmage my ass...I'm gonna sit here in
this
room and dig Beethoven, I'm gonna write noble words,' you
know'--that's
the way I quit football (laughing) nothing more logical or
less...logical"
pg.
189-190
Jack's
discussion with Bull about dying: "'Bull,', I'm saying, 'Jesus
Christ,
people die don't they, I mean, what happens when you die? What
happens
after you're dead? what goes on?' Bull says, 'Well, when you die,
you're
dead, that's all'..."
Pg. 207
Cody's
memory of his father: "Well, I can't remember much, it seems to me
we'd
sit and talk on the bus, I was embarrassed by his stupidity and that
people
could dig, you know, and perhaps by his appearance, and I remember
it was
very cold and everything was awful because one of the buses broke
down--
Pg. 215
Cody's
philosopher/poet discussion
"...I
said 'Well Val, course I think the most important men in the world,
the
most important thing in the world of course and the thing that really
counts
of course is philosophy,' and he said, 'Oh, why no it's, ah, to me
I
should think that the...poet is much more important than the
philosopher.'
I said 'What?' and I was so stupefied and astounded and
nullified
and disturbed that anyone could honestly believe that, that I,
well
I--you know, I really was, ah, upset about it..."
Then at
the end of his thought process, Cody says, "...suddenly I
realized
that the philosopher was not--that the poet was more important
than
the philosopher, you see--"
Pg. 216
Cody
says, "...well I did of course live in a very strange frantic
world..."
Pg
218-219
When
Cody discusses his own experience with writing (in contrast to Jack,
who is
writing): "I said to myself 'At last I'm going to begin my
novel,'--been
thinkin about it for a year or two, not thinking about it
at all
completely, I just knew I'd be doing it, it never occurred to me I
couldn't
write. So I sat down, I said, ah, 'Cody
Pomeray was born on
February
eighth, ah, 'twenty-six, ah, well?...'couldn't get past
that--and
from that day until fours years later I never wrote another
word,
'cause I realized I couldn't--it never occurred to me the problems
of the
writer, or problems of anything, I just--it never, it was
completely
blind, I'd have never imagined, I'd never--can't believe that
I was
so naive..."
Pgs.
233-236
The
speculation about the murder of Bull's wife, combined with their
theorizing
about when death happens is, I think, the best part of the
whole
tape. Questioning about what Bull
thinks when he hears the William
Tell
Overture, whether Bull or June herself put the apple on her head,
whether
it was that he killed her trying to shoot the apple off, and then
lied
about it being an accident when his gun unintentially went off.
This
blends with other thoughts of 'sudden death,' including Finistra
(whoever
he is) who tried to commit suicide several times and never died,
and it
was then really a joke on him, so to speak, because he then died
accidentally. And talking about Irwin (Ginsberg):
Jack: And Irwin, nothing'll happen to him either
Cody:
No, he's afraid and calculating--
Evelyn:
He's cautious
(By the
way, who is Evelyn supposed to represent?)
And
last of all, Cody's own thoughts on being normal (after being put on
probation):
Cody: ...I
was just normal young kid going around you know
Evelyn:
Normal!
Cody:
Well, I mean, you know, normal-seeming. I'd go to work, and go
home,
go and try to get a girl or somethin, only thing was, these
cars..."
Neat
the end of the taped section, the reading got a little easier,
seemed
more like two guys sitting around talking about the stuff they'd
done,
very reminscent of OTR. There is a lot
of garbage thrown in, still
makes
one wonder if the every moment/word is eternal really plays itself
out.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 03:11:33 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: asterisks
of all
the explanations, this one strikes me as THE ONE
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Pamela Beach Plymell
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 1997 7:56 PM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: asterisks
It may
have been that the metaphor with the "fucked over' connotation came in
spontanieous
hipster language; then the "sex
act" meaning came so something
had to
be done. While fuck got past the censors
literal motherfucking would
have
caused publishers to back off. Better to follow the bouncing asterisks
and
Allen could have all the connotations. He made tradeoffs. Literary
gamesmanship
for censorship. What fun we have with this.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:31:03 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cody: the tape
Comments:
To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Pgs.
233-236
>The
speculation about the murder of Bull's wife, combined with their
>theorizing
about when death happens is, I think, the best part of the
>whole
tape. Questioning about what Bull
thinks when he hears the William
>Tell
Overture, whether Bull or June herself put the apple on her head,
>whether
it was that he killed her trying to shoot the apple off, and then
>lied
about it being an accident when his gun unintentially went off.
>
>This
blends with other thoughts of 'sudden death,' including Finistra
>(whoever
he is) who tried to commit suicide several times and never died,
>and
it was then really a joke on him, so to speak, because he then died
>accidentally.
This
staement of yours, "who is finnestra" indicates to me that the book
can
stand
on its' own.
Not
knowing who finstra was you still floowed it very well and made these
great
observations we are enjoying reading.
Finestra
was Bill Cannestra, a friend of "the gang" He lived in a loft they
partied
at a lot. Apparently he was a pretty
wild and crazy guy. He got
himself
killed trying to climb out of the window of a subway car and halfway
out the
train came to a tunnel and he was smashed to death.
Of note
is that Finestra/Canastra's girlfriend was Joan Haverty, Kerouac's
furure
second wife and mother of Jan Kerouac.
She was living in the loft
after
he died. It was her and that loft that
is mentioned at the end of On
The
Road where she calls down to Paradise.
Evelyn
of course is Cody's wife, carolyn Cassady.
If you mean who is she
supposed
to represent mythicly or whatver, I don't know.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 02:39:53 -0700
Reply-To: mike@infinet.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael L. Buchenroth"
<mike@INFINET.COM>
Organization:
Buchenroth Publishing Company
Subject: sojourner beat
Comments:
To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Charles
Plymell wrote:
THE
HIDDEN EQUINOX
A
hothouse of idiots makes
liquid
skin flash next to me
while a
voice from France calls
"buy
me a bicycle and cut my skin"
billboards
on that third fall day
saw a
keen equinox frigid and delightful
move
through the cables of Brooklyn Bridge
where
someone carved a heart to Crane.
That
changed the seasons and the veins
which
brought desire in me to change.
(Like a
translation from an esoteric script.)
I
wanted a 10 cent custard
I felt
bold walking down Delancey
with
the Brooklyn yellow pages
under
my arm looking for a number
that
wouldn't help me anyway.
I
strayed beyond the season's shear
walked
up to the vendor standing there
shook
his vegetables and the cart
beside
the wrought iron park
while
he listened to Caruso's voice
shaking
the brick streets
like
the big truck fleets.
***
Charles,
I find
your poem, THE HIDDEN EQUINOX, taken from Charles Plymell's
"Robbing
The Pillars ~ For Generation X in the Age of Apostasy," which I
have
copied and pasted into this post, purely enchanting, harnessingly
raw
BEAT, poetry! I read this poem repeatedly as it so eloquently
speaks...
I compare this poem to Frost's "The Road Not Taken."
http://www.columbia.edu/acis/bartleby/frost/60.html
gopher://gopher.vt.edu:10010/02/67/3
Crane: THE COLD PASSED RELUCTANTLY
FROM
THE earth, and the retiring fogs revealed an army stretched out on
the
hills, resting... "... Don't forgit about the socks and the shirts,
child;
and I've put a cup of blackberry jam with yer bundle, because I
know
yeh like it above all things. Good-by, Henry. Watch out, and be a
good
boy ..."
Does
Henry's blackberry jam seem similar to 10-cent custard?
Does
"a voice from France" belong to Pam? Elizabeth? (because of
bicycle/cut)
Both?
Does
liquid skin refer to the Jones?
What
number (looking for a number that wouldn't help me anyway) did you
seek?
The way
the equinox moved through the bridge cables channels
physiological
reaction via my spine, my intestines, up through my gut,
and
onto into some distant limbic system synapse! --past Henry's
[frigid]
Civil War fog, through veins "To where it bent in the
undergrowth;"
there, where "TWO roads diverged in a yellow wood," in the
Brooklyn
Yellow Page's mental image, mirrored, alive, change... God
Damn!
I
consider your "THE HIDDEN EQUINOX" classic!
PS
Sense 2
classic
-- (an artist who has created classic works)
=>
artist, creative person -- (a person whose creative work shows
sensitivity
and imagination)
--------------
-Michael
L. Buchenroth
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 02:17:54 -0700
Reply-To: runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner711
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: sojourner beat
In-Reply-To: <33C5FF69.9E0@buchenroth.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 2:39
AM -0700 7/11/97, Michael L. Buchenroth wrote:
>
Charles Plymell wrote:
>
>
THE HIDDEN EQUINOX
>
move through the cables of Brooklyn Bridge
>
where someone carved a heart to Crane.
>
>
gopher://gopher.vt.edu:10010/02/67/3 Crane: THE COLD PASSED RELUCTANTLY
>
FROM THE earth, and the retiring fogs revealed an army stretched out on
>
the hills, resting... "... Don't forgit about the socks and the shirts,
>
child; and I've put a cup of blackberry jam with yer bundle, because I
>
know yeh like it above all things. Good-by, Henry. Watch out, and be a
>
good boy ..."
am
starving, raving tired here <<2:15am>>.
Terribly
curious who this "Crane" person is.
Can't gopher and don't
recognize
the above passage that Michael has so graciously posted <<thank
you,
thank you and CP both!>> I'm
thinking this is Arthur Crane, a
painter/photographer
related to the Steiglitz group. Of
course, I'm
starving,
raving tired here. Any further
annotation most appreciated.
crane = a species of bird
crane = machine used to lift
heart of crane ~= heart of Cain
cheers,
Douglas <<I saw the best desktops
of my generation fail to rebuild...
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ let the man come thru
stand
up, and let the man come thru let the man come thru
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:59:54 -0400
Reply-To: Joe Buschini <joeb@SMPLANET.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Joe Buschini
<joeb@SMPLANET.COM>
Subject: Re: sojourner beat
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The
gopher reference quotes Stephen Crane
(whose influence as a beat
progenitor
might be worthy of discussion). The HIDDEN EQUINOX, however,
apparently
alludes to Hart ("heart") Crane.
>Terribly
curious who this "Crane" person is.
Can't gopher...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 15:54:10 +0200
Reply-To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: who is MemBabe?
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
i
wrote:
help
MemBabe@aol.com
wrote:
>que
pasa?
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:44:54 -0700
Reply-To: runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner711
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: eye heart crane
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
ok,
pulled out one of my art history compendium books. can't find the one
I'm
looking for (must have tossed it). Sew
eye heart crane with my one
good
eye:
from pg 327 of "the shock of the
new" by Robert Hughes:
<<
"[...]
Their environment was not as message-laden as ours, but they were
not
used to it, and so its vividness has not stalled.
The true home of the quick message,
after World War I, as New York
City. It's shapes were already a subject for
American artists by 1920.
For
Joseph Stella, an Italian migrant painter --as, in the late twenties,
for the
Ohio-born Hart Crane--the Brooklyn Bridge was the supreme image of
collective
creativity, tying past and present into one epigram of social
coherence
(plate 219). It was the New World's
answer to the Eiffel Tower;
or, as
Stella put it, "the shrine containing all the efforts of the new
assertion
of their powers; an opotheosis".
>>
--well,
that passage mostly talks about Stella, but the Brooklyn Bridge
info is
good.
cheers,
Douglas <<running>>
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ let the man come thru
stand
up, and let the man come thru
let the man come thru
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:37:09 -0400
Reply-To: Ken Ostrander <kenster@MIT.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ken Ostrander <kenster@MIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: no reason!
Comments:
To: Marioka7@AOL.COM
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>If
anyone is interested in continuing to receive my posts or in staying in
>touch
please let me know. Otherwise i will no
longer post anything that
>doesn't
have the word "Ginsberg", "Burroughs", or "Kerouac"
in it. I'm sorry
>for
the inconvenience I have caused by posting my own writing and not that of
>others. i see what an effort and consumption of time
it is for some people
>to
click on the delete key.
>
>am
unabashedly nasty sourpuss tonight, for no reason, and, yes, I'm taking it
>out
on YOU,
>love,
>maya<<sick
of apologizing>>: ) : ) : ) : ) (note the ironic smiley)
oh maya, don't apologize. you're not the only one; and besides, i
think
that your posts are what this list is all about. just let it happen.
i'm
guessing that somebody got to you with some comment; but screw 'em i
say. for every jerk that complains there are many
silent folk like myself
that
have no trouble with the delete button.
i've got no sympathy for such
whiny
bastards when i get from one to two hundred e-mails a day (summer's
the
slow time). i will say that you have
more time on your hands to scribe
than i
seem to. and i sit in front of the computer all day!
no
regrets!
KEN
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:27:03 -0400
Reply-To: "Michael L. Buchenroth"
<mike@INFINET.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael L. Buchenroth"
<mike@INFINET.COM>
Subject: Re: eye heart crane
Comments:
To: runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
In-Reply-To: <l03020900afec0416c35b@[198.5.212.52]>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Fri,
11 Jul 1997, runner711 wrot
>
for the Ohio-born Hart Crane--the Brooklyn Bridge was the supreme image of
>
collective creativity, tying past and present into one epigram of social
>
coherence (plate 219). It was the New
World's answer to the Eiffel Tower;
>
or, as Stella put it, "the shrine containing all the efforts of the new
>
assertion of their powers; an opotheosis".
>
>>
>
>
--well, that passage mostly talks about Stella, but the Brooklyn Bridge
>
info is good.
Interesting
stuff. Until today, I didn't know about Hart Crane or these
Brooklyn
Bridge references. Who is Stella? What in poem indicates this?
Why do
the billboards see the keen equinox frigid and delightful?
Why the
third fall day?
And I
meant to ask this earlier, Is Delancey a street? And what would
this
street, if so, contribute? And I know this question is most likely
gonna
hurt later, but I searched Alta Vista for "caruso," but got so many
different
hits, it left me confused--what does the vendor listen to if
the
vendor listens to Caruso's voice? It must contain bass enough, or
significance
enough to "shaek the brick streets."
To
date, I have read this poem as change, the kind of change that only
goes
one way, or that produces archetypal influences, like when Gatsby
first
met and fell in love with Daisy...that event change produced an
outcome
immeasurably different than had the event not occured as we all
know...
***
If so,
what change(s) have occured? Why is the equinox both frigid and
cole
similar to that little girl riding in that stage coach who was "awfully
good."
I'm
confused, but confusion is good...
***
Help...
Michael
L. Buchenroth
mike@buchenroth.com
www.buchenroth.com
To view
Columbus'
Electronic Literary Magazine
go to
www.buchenroth.com/magazine.html
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 17:40:45 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: no reason!
Ken -
i'm with you... and i miss maya....
ciao,
sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 19:42:50 +0200
Reply-To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: beat poet jack kerouac on CD &&
mM
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Beatspotting
at Melody Maker, june 28, 1997, at page #29,
i found
this ''ad'' poem:
"
MUTE COMMUNION
Patrick Jones, Rev Press
12:06:97
I am critic
I am corrupt
I have blood of countless
generations of artists on my h@nds
I am not sotty
the INK
spills from my h@nds and causes
tears to flow ceaselessly like a stern
m@nic street preachers fan's mum
read read this read
this
and you will find
three seconds meaning in a book of
non/sense
your approval
means nothing to me
to me means nothing
nothing means to me would
would would that I could
extract any meaning
i recently bought the collected
works of famous beat poet jack
kerouac on CD
and even that
even that,
laughable as it seemed set to the
jazzy textures of the blown sax
was
genius
compared to this, this the second
anthology of work from Nicky
Wire-endorsed Ninenties beat poet
successor EXCESSor patrick
jones
INK drips from my pen onto
sullen pages of white
i fear for the youth's/ future
you can purchase this TWO
POUNDS from rev press,
10 coronation rd blackwood NP2
1EA/ wales
i do not not NOT recommend
it/ it is
b
o
l
l
o
c
k
s
E(vere)TT TRUE
"
---
yrs
Rinaldo. * Da! Da! DaDa i love you! *
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 14:06:15 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Andy Warhol
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>murder
of demented stalker of lucien carr by same. forget his name.
andy
>wharhol
was right/
was
writ to the list. That reminded me of
an interesting thing that
happended
two nights ago. My mother had given to
me a series of books
she
purchased for me as a child. They were
called "Best in Children's
Books". I sat down to read my girls the story of
the Porridge pot that
would
produce porridge when told to "boil pot boil" and would stop when
told
"stop pot stop". Anyway, I
noticed that the drawings with the
story
seemed to have a unique flair. I looked
to the credits and the
artist
was Andy Warhol. The copyright was
1959. Just an interesting
little
twist.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 18:08:55 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: eye heart crane
thanks
for posting this, Michael. poem has a
lovely feel.
i'm
probably totally off, but here's my puny & humble take ( i don't get the
bicycle/cut
my skin thing though):
"...keen
equinox frigid and delightful" -
third day after a sunny, sharp,
cold,
but lovely fall equinox in NYC
"....
Brooklyn Bridge" - thankfully Douglas has enlightened us on this one
"That
changed... esoteric script" - the
feeling many of us have when the
seasons
change, after the langorous days of summer a time perhaps to be
brisker... like how translators of ancient spiritual
texts often tighten up
the
language and ideas and filter through their own interpretations (for
better
or worse) for those for whom they are translating
"...10
cent custard..." given the price,
i'd say we're referring to a time
long
ago, perhaps charles' halcyon days?
"I
felt bold....help me anyway" - Delancey St. is a pretty well-known NYC
thoroughfare. i confess i'm mystified by what it is he's
looking for...
maybe
an acquaintance who's last name & number he's lost? that idea seems too
prosaic
to me... your notion of Frost may be
more to the point (hhhmmm,
that's
an interesting juxtaposition in the quotes above, wonder if it's
relevant
to the meaning here?)
last
stanza - used to be alot of cart
vendors in NYC. sounds like he walked
out of
the wind's range to this vendor, maybe bought some of his vegetables.
this
guy's got the legendary tenor of all operatic tenors blasting from his
portable
radio or something. believe me,
caruso's voice could shake the
streets
like a truck and shake you down to the roots of your soul.
help,
charles... fill in the blanks. and
please forgive me if the above is
idiotic.
ciao,
sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 11:32:28 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: eye heart crane (was: sojourner
beat)
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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Michael
writ:
>>
Who is Stella? What in poem indicates this?
The
quote from the Hughes book was mighty slim on Hart, so I included
Stella
as well. (Thanks to Joe Buschini for
the name clarification).
You
might do a search and see what happens, or even better checkout the
local
library/bookstore. _Gardner's_ gigantic
World of Art is what I
was
looking for this morning, but couldn't find.
>>
Why do the billboards see the keen equinox frigid and delightful?
a cold
winter day, walking stoically from one part of town to another,
seeing
the light quote unquote? Billboards and
grafitti marking out a
personal
space?
><<And
I know this question is most likely
>gonna
hurt later, but I searched Alta Vista for "caruso," but got so many
>different
hits, it left me confused--what does the vendor listen to if
>the
vendor listens to Caruso's voice? It must contain bass enough, or
significance
enough to "shaek the brick streets.">>
The
voice of one man, making his presence known.
Gregory Caruso, the
beat
writer/poet? The reverberating voice
conclusion ties in nicely
with
the "liquid skin flash", bicycle cut skin, moving cables of the
brooklyn
bridge, and the walk down Delancey. A
path taken by foot, not
car or
bus, apparently. Different kinds of
'movement' through various
'territories'.
Shocks
and realizations reaching a far destination.
<<france>> CP
thinking
of phone call from Caruso, speaking in Caruso's voice to the
>vendor. An adoption, translation, an esoteric skin??
>
><<To
date, I have read this poem as change, the kind of change that only
>goes
one way, or that produces archetypal influences, like when Gatsby
>first
met and fell in love with Daisy...that event change produced an
>outcome
immeasurably different than had the event not occured as we all
know...>>
yes,
and in the movie with Mia Farrow and Robert Redford, don't forget
the
scenes with the optometrist's billboards.
the one with the gigantic
pictogram
eye, that seems to loom over, look at everything. <<god?>>
>
>>
I'm confused, but confusion is good...
>>
***
>>
Help...
yep. been down that road recently myself. It's been raining sandstorms
in my
neck of the woods. Personally, I'm
wondering what Caruso's voice
is
saying? "go the distance" ??
and
Sherri, have just received your post, :: the phonebook is "yellow"
so I
suspect ol' CP was looking for a bike to mail to france. some
biking
accident? and sneaking back to
Michael's interpretation, CP
realized
it wasn't going to do him any good anyway.
The changing of
seasons
being a nice metaphor for a personal journey.
<<perhaps>>??
>>
Michael L. Buchenroth
>
Sherri
>cheers,
Douglas
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:22:07 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: sojourner beat
MIME-Version:
1.0
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<<more
thoughts while getting my lunch>>
sorry
to pounce on this. one more post on
CP's poem "the hidden
equinox"
and then I'm out.
Don't
know the context of its publishing "for gen x". but::
Caruso's
voice from france = a bridge to art, with the force of a truck,
able to
make the streets rumble with his fallings/failures
equinox
= september 23 = equal lenghts = twice a year = friendship?
walking
& biking = methods of transversing life and only the "hothouse
of
idiots' and their "liquid skins" (billboards) don't understand that
it's
not the method that's important, but the distance travelled (and
sights
seen along the way: grafitti).
life =
10c custard
<<Man
I'm hungry>> Douglas
"the
map is not the territory"
babu@electriciti.com
(Alfred Korzybski) www.electriciti.com/babu/
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 14:47:43 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: FW: eye heart crane (was: sojourner
beat)
MIME-Version:
1.0
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via
backchannel, Sherri (thank you very much!!) states <ahem>, that:
>
><<the
beat poet is gregroy corso... caruso is enrico caruso, considered to be
>the
greatest operatic tenor of all time by most people.>>
ah! I therefore retract all I said, pulling up
all stakes. I'm keeping
the
burrito I had for lunch though!
<<yum>>
Charles
Plymell, where are you you you you you [[SD calling...
>
ciao, sherri [[hope you don't mind me posting this??
>Douglas
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 19:19:16 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: sojourner beat
Comments:
To: mike@infinet.com
Thanks
for catching that poem. It wasn't in Forever Wider and I had forgotten
all
about it. It's fun to look at my own work fresh. I think it would be a
flashy
poem. I'm learning from your poems you sent me. It takes me a while
to
study them.
Charley
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 19:51:11 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: jo grant/nicosia
I
second the motion.
Charley
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 20:05:24 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: sojourner beat
Thank
you joe for being literate. Hart Crane
was the poets' poet. Even
Ginsy's.
Charley
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 00:25:36 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: eye heart crane (was: sojourner
beat)
don't
mind you posting that at all, i meant it for beat-l, forgot to change
where
to respond <grins>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 19:42:08 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: eye heart crane (was: sojourner
beat)
MIME-Version:
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Gentleman,
The
whole world is not yet available through the major search engines.
Libraries
are still helpful.
Hart
Crane, very important early 20th century Am poetry, look him up
Frank
Stella, equally important ab ex painter.
Enrico
Caruso, The ultimate tenor, on all the better jukeboxes in lthe
great
italian neighborhoods that became Bohemia's, be they the Village
in NY
or North Beach in SF.
J
Stauffer
Penn,
Douglas, K wrote:
>
>
Michael writ:
>
>
>> Who is Stella? What in poem indicates this?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:36:20 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Fwd: eye heart crane
---------------------
Forwarded
message:
Subj: Re: eye heart crane
Date: 97-07-11 23:36:13 EDT
From: CVEditions
To: love_singing@msn.com
In a
message dated 97-07-11 23:06:02 EDT, you write:
<< your notion of Frost may be more to the
point >>
Fuck
Frost that old fool, just because I have a beard and and on site under a
craggy
tree, i don't wanna be no Frost industry!
He got
a few lines going. Had to go to England to get ol crazy Pound to
publish
him. he was to far out for the academe. Can you imagine that? He
began
on the S.F. beach where I wrote REBA. He had a consession. Then moved
to
Vermont. Built a fence or something. Read at Camelot's inaguration. Then
all the
little cillen started writing frostpomes. Please don't associate me
with him.
Exect for a prize of somekind. Oh why you make it hard for me?
Old Joe
Turner sang "Please Mr, Johnson/don't play the blues so sad"
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:55:03 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Fwd: eye heart crane
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Two
roads
diverged
in a
narrow wood
i
looked down one as far
as my
eye could see
i
looked down the other as far
as my
eye could see
i
looked back to the first
then
back at the second
i stood
silent
frozen
in
indecision
hours
passed
my
mentor's words
"choice
is tragic"
sounded
in my brain
i
looked to the first
i
looked to the second
Fuck It
i
screamed
turned
and
sauntered back home
and
took a
cold
shower!
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
Pamela
Beach Plymell wrote:
>
>
---------------------
>
Forwarded message:
>
Subj: Re: eye heart crane
>
Date: 97-07-11 23:36:13 EDT
>
From: CVEditions
>
To: love_singing@msn.com
>
> In
a message dated 97-07-11 23:06:02 EDT, you write:
>
>
<< your notion of Frost may be
more to the point >>
>
>
Fuck Frost that old fool, just because I have a beard and and on site under a
>
craggy tree, i don't wanna be no Frost industry!
>
> He
got a few lines going. Had to go to England to get ol crazy Pound to
>
publish him. he was to far out for the academe. Can you imagine that? He
>
began on the S.F. beach where I wrote REBA. He had a consession. Then moved
> to
Vermont. Built a fence or something. Read at Camelot's inaguration. Then
>
all the little cillen started writing frostpomes. Please don't associate me
>
with him. Exect for a prize of somekind. Oh why you make it hard for me?
>
Old Joe Turner sang "Please Mr, Johnson/don't play the blues so sad"
>
Charles Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 03:59:02 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: eye heart crane
i'm
sorry, i just thought it was a helluva alot better notion than my stupid
one <grins> it was Michael's idea!!! <whining>
<poor
girl freaks, hides her face in her hands>
was the
rest of what i said totally off too?
i
really want to lay my hands on some of your books, is there no place you can
suggest
in the Bay Area?
humbly
and sheepishly hoping you'll forget my faux pas.
ciao,
sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 21:27:48 -0700
Reply-To: runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner711
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: "buy me a bicycle and cut my
skin"
Comments:
To: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Charles
Plymell [[and beat-list:
You
sir, have made my day. been thinking
about that poem of yours recently
posted
to the beat-list, "the hidden equinox." just now (*:$$() figured
out, at
least another focal point, this line
"buy me a bicycle and cut my
skin"
and how
it relates to the sound of corso... caruso
pumping
out a radio down on Chauncey street
how
walking across this bridge, girders bouncing
<<beaming>>
progress and identity - death
life
unescorted, headed for the straight life
breaking
beams:: sharks sir, sharks
sir,
sharks are attracted to blood
they
come upon you fast, making lots of turns
and
twists, and tumbles as the water pulls you down
<<hm>>
breathe -- I'm asking you
"buy
me a bicycle and cut my skin"
calling
to ask you in
to hear
your voice
to come
home a little
....
quicker
the
sound of your unborn child
bouncing
and quivering -- mother
How
much faster can that sound come
oh, the
violent twitch that propels it
the
crackles and spits of a torrent wind
<<twisting,
tumbling, pulling you down>>
<<hm>>
breathe -- I'm asking you
"buy
me a skin and cut my bicycle"
"bicycle
skin and buy me a cut"
"me
skin cut buy bicycle and my"
--==+
so thanx Charley Plymell
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/images/Hidden_equinox.html
Douglas
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 21:28:06 -0700
Reply-To: runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner711
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: eye heart crane (was: sojourner
beat)
In-Reply-To: <33C6EEFF.62C4@pacbell.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 7:42
PM -0700 7/11/97, James Stauffer wrote:
>
Gentlema[e]n,
>
>
The whole world is not yet available through the major search engines.
ah, not
yet....
but I
hear it...
what's
your number?
mine's
runner711
I'm
running <<yet>>
be
patient, don't worry
--you'll
hear it
....
rumbling
by the
year 2010??
>
Libraries are still helpful.
yep. friends are better.
can you
dig it, brother?
deep
brother, James?
[["buy me a bicycle and cut my
skin" --who said this??
Douglas [[I think it was god....?
<<laugh>>>>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 00:31:16 -0400
Reply-To: SSASN@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: CODY: what murder?
Diane:
By now
you have learned from other posts that the murder referred to in the
taped
conversation was none other than one of the most infamous incidents in
the
whole Beat mythology- WSB's accidental killing of his wife Joan in a
drunken
"William Tell" incident, excrutiatingly recounted in many books, as
well as
in the BURROUGHS documentary and even (repeatedly) in David
Cronenberg's
film version of NAKED LUNCH ( a noble failure, I respect him for
trying). The doomed WSB, Jr. was present, age 4,
among many other details
that
make this one of the most appalling/fascinating occurrences in the
collective
Beat saga. The most poignant recounting
of and reflection on this
that I
can think of now is by WSB himself, in his introduction to QUEER.
All I
can add at this time is, first, the observation that "....in between
June
and August....the murder took place" is wrong, it happened on September
6,
1951. But the fact that other Beat
legends (Cassady and Kerouac) are
speculating
like this, less accurately than us current scholars from the
distance
of decades and a mountain of sources, is itself very interesting and
significant. This is how it really was, how history is
really made before it
is
"history" in the discord and immediacy of the moment. How do I put it-
there
is both a demystification of a well-established and documented legend,
and a
message that our own relatively
anonymous cosmic huddles have the same
legendary
qualities that we project by popular consensus onto this now-famous
group. There's more to this I can't quite get at,
it's late and enough for
now.
Secondly,
I recall from my visit with WSB in early 1995 that gun magazines
and
boxes of ammunition were scattered in his home. A gentleman who we
visited
earlier the same day was his favorite shooting partner, with whom he
was
going to shoot the next day. I even
have a set of 3 t-shirts personally
shot at
and signed by him. Many of his artworks
that he has been producing
over
the last decade or so are the result of shooting paint &or bullets at
boards,
doors, etc. Shooting, whether guns or
junk, is a constant through
his
life and work. How can he shoot at
targets and not think of the tragedy?
Read the QUEER introduction and try to tell me
he isn't sensitive to its
significance.
I think I know why the shooting continues- He was both freed
and
"grounded" (as Ginsberg put it) by what happened, he had nothing to
lose
and
became the brave pioneer I revere and enjoy and have learned so much
from,
he had "no choice except to write my way out" and has been doing so
ever
since, it was the Big Bang, indeed.
Regards,
Arthur
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:14:02 -0700
Reply-To: runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner711
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: eye heart crane
In-Reply-To: <UPMAIL14.199707120413100511@msn.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 8:59
PM -0700 7/11/97, Sherri wrote:
> i
really want to lay my hands on some of your books, is there no place
>you
can
>
suggest in the Bay Area?
Sherri,
lesson #1: don't ask the man, go find it your f'in self!
Surely
this is beat methodology? Just get in
your f'in car and go! Or
take
the BART. God, I miss San
Francisco. Where is it? --right next to
china
town and the condor strip club?? and
there's a bar right next door.
get
loaded and head up to the church just above the park. smoke one for me
and
f'in yell as much of "howl" as you possibly can. da tourists will
meander
over, and when they do, take out your hat, or your cup, and kindly
inform
them that they just had the pleasuring of hearing some eternal
<<Allen
Ginsberg>>. Would they care to
make a small donation?? and even
though
you're standing on the steps of the church, I don't think God or
Jesus
will mind. geez.
yeah,
so go to City Lights. Or over to
Berkeley and the used shops along
Telegraph
street. and check out the housing coops
on the UCSB campus while
you're
there. Tell em DIY sent ya.
>
ciao,
>
sherri
DIY
Douglas :-)))))))hungry!
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ let the man come thru
stand
up, and let the man come thru
let the man come thru
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 01:17:12 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Visions of Cody
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
I have
been searching for an answer to my question about what Jack saw
in Neal
and why he made him a hero. Tonight, I
went to Memory Babe and
found
the following which appears to be from the Gregory McDonald:
Page
689:
He (JK)
talked so long and lovingly of Gerard that McDonald was moved to
inquire
whether Jack had any satisfying relationships with living
people. He had none to speak of. Finally McDonald asked, "Jack have
you
ever felt one-on-one with anybody?"
Without a second's thought,
Jack
answered, "Yeah, Cassady," and began to talk of Neal as he had
talked
about Gerard, describing their trips together but concentrating
on
Neal's eyes and the rare communication that had passed between them
and his
own. At the same time he kept
apologizind for his obsession
with
Neal, as though their relationship also deeply frightened him. Yet
he
didn't want Neal to be dead; he spoke of his belief that Neal might
be
alive, but also talked of meeting him in the afterlife."
If we
assume that Nicosia's comments are accurate, then we can see a
picture
developing that explains why Neal is the hero.
He is Jack's
"brother"
in the sense that they connected on the deepest of levels
where we
do not use words. This would explain
the tapes as well.
Just a
thought.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 05:29:57 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: eye heart crane
did
City Lights, even tho da man already tole me they ain't publishin it no
more,
just in case... checked out the used books section, too.
most
beat stuff is hard to come by in used book stores round here cuz it's
either
not there cuz folks don't wanna part wid it or cuz it gets snatched up
PDQ. next thing is da library... haven't had a
chance to do dat yet, man.
tomorrow
checkin at da great used bookstore a blcok from my apt. maybe i'll
get
lucky, but only thing so far i've come up wid is nicoia's MemoryBabe.
ciao,
sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
runner711
Sent: Friday, July 11, 1997 10:14 PM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: eye heart crane
At 8:59
PM -0700 7/11/97, Sherri wrote:
> i
really want to lay my hands on some of your books, is there no place
>you
can
>
suggest in the Bay Area?
Sherri,
lesson #1: don't ask the man, go find it your f'in self!
Surely
this is beat methodology? Just get in
your f'in car and go! Or
take
the BART. God, I miss San Francisco. Where is it? --right next to
china
town and the condor strip club?? and
there's a bar right next door.
get
loaded and head up to the church just above the park. smoke one for me
and
f'in yell as much of "howl" as you possibly can. da tourists will
meander
over, and when they do, take out your hat, or your cup, and kindly
inform
them that they just had the pleasuring of hearing some eternal
<<Allen
Ginsberg>>. Would they care to
make a small donation?? and even
though
you're standing on the steps of the church, I don't think God or
Jesus
will mind. geez.
yeah,
so go to City Lights. Or over to
Berkeley and the used shops along
Telegraph
street. and check out the housing coops
on the UCSB campus while
you're
there. Tell em DIY sent ya.
>
ciao,
>
sherri
DIY
Douglas :-)))))))hungry!
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ let the man come thru
stand
up, and let the man come thru
let the man come thru
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:43:50 -0700
Reply-To: runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner711
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: eye heart crane
In-Reply-To: <UPMAIL14.199707120535260495@msn.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
10:29 PM -0700 7/11/97, Sherri wrote:
>
maybe i'll
>
get lucky, but only thing so far i've come up wid is nicoia's MemoryBabe.
gee, if
you can't find it online <<hm>> maybe you could look in the
archives
everyone on this list is talking about?
<<hm....
>
ciao,
>
sherri
Douglas <<getting off now>>
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ let the man come thru
stand
up, and let the man come thru
let the man come thru
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:17:12 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Cody Notes and Queries
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Sloshing
my way still through Part 2.
Find
myself wondering whether the real Neal was really a good pool
player. Doesn't seem the right type. I have watched some great 9 ball
players. Most are really idiot savants. Great concentration and hand
and eye. Good sense of just how good they need to
play at a given time
to keep
the fish on. Can't remember any that were talkers. travel with a
horse
who gets the game up, carries money, and can sense how deep the
pockets
are. Neal strikes me as maybe a decent
bar eightball player on
a table
where shots don't have to be called.
Lot's of serendipitous
slop
shots and a good patter. Don't trust
Jack as a reliable witness
on this
as he was clearly way too infatuated.
Ginsberg even less
credible.
Charley,
Leon, and all you historians, help me out on this cunnumdrum.
J.
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 01:08:06 -0500
Reply-To: LISA VEDROS <2ndbeat@TELAPEX.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: LISA VEDROS
<2ndbeat@TELAPEX.COM>
Subject: Second Beat #3
Comments:
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU.
MIME-Version:
1.0
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The
Allen Ginsberg Memorial Issue of Second Beat is available for $1.00,
and is
full of poetry and articles about the "Best Mind of Our Generation."
Send a
buck to:
Camelia
City Books
2034
Johnston Station Road
Summit,
Ms 39666
Thanks,
Thadeus
D'Angelo, Camelia City Books
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 06:29:20 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: eye heart crane
didn't
say i couldn't find it online - i want to buy it here. i don't buy
over
the web, not secure enough...
ciao,
sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
runner711
Sent: Friday, July 11, 1997 10:43 PM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: eye heart crane
At
10:29 PM -0700 7/11/97, Sherri wrote:
>
maybe i'll
>
get lucky, but only thing so far i've come up wid is nicoia's MemoryBabe.
gee, if
you can't find it online <<hm>> maybe you could look in the
archives
everyone on this list is talking about?
<<hm....
>
ciao,
>
sherri
Douglas <<getting off now>>
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ let the man come thru
stand
up, and let the man come thru
let the man come thru
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 09:26:50 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: cody thoughts
that
thread bout NC being hero, antihero, not worthy hero, whatever, keeps
beatin
around in my brain....
#1 -
whatever one might say bout NC - he seems to me to have had a very big
lionheart. hearts and spirits that big are generally a
huge attraction to
like
individuals, especially those of a romantic/idealistic bent, and bespeak
a
certain nobility... the heart to be
true to oneself, no matter how wrong
one
might be. mythology/religion/history
are full of heroes with
weaknesses....
let us not forget Achilles.
#2 - it
seems to me thatNC, to some extent, can be likened to those famous
muses
who inspired/modelled for great paintings or inspired great lit,
regardless
of what they may or may not have achieved in their own rights.
sometimes
the chemistry is the most important factor
#3 -
seems to me that JK is parallelling Cody's gradual slip from greatness in
his own
mind, as he began to be more and more
fully aware of the darker side
of NC,
to that of America's slide from idyllic
dream....
additional
thoughts:
a) i wonder if this use of color should be tied
to hindu/buddhist meanings
for
colors... i don't know the meanings for
all of them, but those i do
remember
seem fitting to JK's usage - can anyone help me out on this?
b) part 2 - i'm surprised nobody picked up on
what a hoot this is... again
like
Ulysses... bunch of ribald humor...
like Bloom and the various women he
meets
(eg., woman at fish market) . does
anyone know if this
vision/dream/recollection
is all supposed to take place in one day like
Ulyssses? i mean, is this "A Day in the Life
Of" so to speak? if so, then
the
book is really bout JK and not NC.
c) love this line "These imaginings lead me backwards to my original
poipose" and the "food example" (pg 75 Penguin '93 edition) got a good te
hee
when i came across them and they lead right into the whole Ruth/Ella
tits/legs
thing...
Cody
says "Have this picture, I've used it."
pg 76:
"I even know this is infinitely more delicious than touching Ruth's
breast
itself (though I'd do anything for the chance) - But more, more about
the
breast itself - all my life i've dreamed on breasts ( and of course
thighs,
but now we're talking of breasts, hold your Venus, we're talking about
Mars,
and your water, we're talking about milk)..." this, while hilarious (
to me
at least), speaks volumes about his outlook on women and his feelings
towards
his mother. and all this leads straight
into what appear to be
strings
of events failed, desires unrequited.
always the promise but never
the
dream come true. the constant, futile
chasing of the disappearing
American
dream.
c) i know that death was always an undercurrent
to JK"s life due to Gerard's
death,
but i wonder if it was more heavily on his mind due to his month in the
hospital,
not long before writing this book... his own uncertainty about his
health,
aware of his own mortality and the general depression that often
follows
a long illness and being around so many others who are ill or dying.
well,
enough from me...
ciao,
sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 06:57:51 -0400
Reply-To: cosmicat@erols.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: cosmicat@EROLS.COM
Subject: Beat-L T-shirt
Comments:
cc: Waterrow@AOL.COM
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Jeffrey,
This
needs saying:
I
received my shirt yesterday along with a refund check and explanatory
letter.
I agree that the shirt is not well-printed. Much could have been
done to
improve the result, but this is what we get. No real problem.
However,
I do have a problem with the refund check. First, it was
hastily
scribbled. I realise that you probably had to write nearly a
hundred
checks at once, but it is far from your best work. Seriously, it
displays
the best of intentions, indeed it exemplifies fine qualities
and
character attributes mostly absent in the 1990's, but it won't do.
I, for
one, am unwilling to let you and WRB bear the brunt of the
expense
of the Beat-L T-shirt venture alone. The gesture is much
appreciated
but you are going to have to take back the check. If you
feel so
strongly that we, the Beat-L, have been maligned, cheated,
rooked
plenty, abused, etc. by the printers, you can send me another
shirt
in exchange for YOUR check. (I think I just stepped into an event
loop
with that line.) Mr.Weinberg, I have laid out far more for far less
many
times in the past. Thank you for your efforts, the outcome is more
than
satisfactory.
Your
check is in the mail,
Michael
Nally
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 07:40:16 -0400
Reply-To: Marioka7@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: sionara, babies
Dear
Beetles,
It's
been a long, winding, often very productive(for me) road, but my beetle
time
has come to an end. Lets just say that
it no longer serves my purposes.
so I am saying "ciao" until another
lifetime, when perhaps the mood will
strike
me again.
I
especially appreciated the informative posts from people who really know
what
they're talking about (you know who you are).
And also thanks to the
many
creative people who posted their own work, it was often really good
(though
sometimes everyone falters, this is normal).
I still feel privileged
to have
met some of you and there are some I expect to see in print at the
bookstore
in a few years.
Thanks
Charles Plymell, you are a voice of reason among much voiced unreason.
Been
nice knowin' yas.
take
care,
---maya
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:09:02 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Fwd: eye heart crane
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Pamela
Beach Plymell wrote:
>
>
---------------------
>
Forwarded message:
>
Subj: Re: eye heart crane
>
Date: 97-07-11 23:36:13 EDT
>
From: CVEditions
>
To: love_singing@msn.com
>
> In
a message dated 97-07-11 23:06:02 EDT, you write:
>
> Fuck Frost that old fool, just because I
have a beard and and on site
>
under a
>
craggy tree, i don't wanna be no Frost industry!
>
You
should thank God you didn't grow up in the state where Frost was not
only
the state poet for a kazillion years, but where every Vermont poet
is
measured against his style of writing.
I remember when I was in high
school
I submitted my first poem to a state contest, I don't have a copy
anymore,
but as I recall it was about the insanity of the Vietnam War.
The
woman in charge of sending the poems gave it back to me with a
lecture
about how politics had no place in poetry and couldn't I pen
something
about stone walls in a pasture. Kinda
makes it clear how
choosing
the beats as a model, particularly Ginsberg, can put you outside
the
mainstream, and make you say, thank God, there is somebody else out
there
with like-minded thoughts and writing.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:57:01 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: eye heart crane
MIME-Version:
1.0
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>Sherri
wrote:
>
>
i'm sorry, i just thought it was a helluva alot better notion than my
>stupid
>
one <grins> it was Michael's idea!!! <whining>
>
>
<poor girl freaks, hides her face in her hands>
>
>
was the rest of what i said totally off too?
>
> i
really want to lay my hands on some of your books, is there no place
>
you can
>
suggest in the Bay Area?
>
>
humbly and sheepishly hoping you'll forget my faux pas.
>
>
ciao,
>
sherri
Sherri,
Particularly
in poetry, there a place where over-analysis starts to
overide
the impact of one's initial response emotionally to a poem.
That's
the feeling I get with where you guys are going with this one.
I don't suggest that you not continue to look
for books of Charles'
poems,
but in the meantime, check out his web site,
http://www.buchenroth.com/cplymell.html
There
you will find much of his writing including a 148K file of the
poems
in Robbin the Pillars for Generation X in the Age of Apostasy,
including
the one you are discussing.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 00:21:11 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: CODY: what murder?
MIME-Version:
1.0
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Arthur
Nusbaum wrote:
>
>
But the fact that other Beat legends (Cassady and Kerouac) >are
>
speculating like this, less accurately than us current scholars from
>
the
>
distance of decades and a mountain of sources, is itself very
>
interesting and
>
significant.
Arthur,
I shall
have to find the intro to Queer, because I find this whole
situation
incredible. How could one's whole life
not be totally affected
by such
an incident?
And I
think you may have given me insight into the importance of the tape
for the
first time--"This is how it really was, how history is really
made
before it is 'history' in the discord and immediancy of the
moment...There
is both a demystification of a well-established and
documented
legend, and a message that our own relatively anonymous cosmic
huddles
have the same legendary qualities that we project by popular
concensus
onto this now-famous group."
Somehow
in all of this, the mind, memories, Cody's and Jack's thoughts
and
speculations on actual situations alter the reality, and then
recording
the actual moments of the memories, adds a new level of the
immediacy
of the moment. We as readers are
already twice-removed from
the
immediacy, and caught in our own orientation, from our particular
perspective
on the history at this point. From this
angle, the tape
makes a
lot of sense in a book where visions, moments out of time, are at
the
center of the work. I'm not sure I
articulately have gotten at this
element
either, but I have a sense of what you mean.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:21:37 +0000
Reply-To: randyr@southeast.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is
<randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>
From: randy royal
<randyr@SOUTHEAST.NET>
Subject: Re: unsubscribe/fyi
MIME-Version:
1.0
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>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 10:17:49
-0400
>
Reply-to: Marioka7@AOL.COM
>
From: Maya Gorton
<Marioka7@AOL.COM>
>
Subject: unsubscribe/fyi
>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> i
noticed many people seem to have forgotten:
>
You may leave the list at any time by
sending a "SIGNOFF BEAT-L" command
>
to LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (or LISTSERV@CUNYVM.BITNET).
>
>
this is not a hint to anybody so please don't jump on me. I just wanted to
>
provide this info to those who are unsubscibing, so they don't find 10000
>
messages and wonder what the hell happened.
>
--maya
>
>
this is
serious shit!! i leave for vacation and come back to 411
(that
no. just keeps on popping up!)
messages
during one week!! i wish i would've signed off! anyway,
thanx-
i will remeber next time. cya~randy
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 00:59:27 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Cody: Imitation of the Tape
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After
having struggled with the tape a bit, I didn't have overly high
hopes
going into this section, but for me, this is the best part of the
book
thus far. It starts out with an
excellent, Americanized imitation
of the
style of Joyce's interior monologue of Ulysses. Then you have
imitations
of Wolfe and Poe (I think) all exquisitely drawn together by
Jack's
own recollections of Lowell, college, New York, etc, through
hurricanes
and baseball leagues. You have the
words and places of great
American
writers, all through together in stream of consciousness.
And
this take on the sins of America and going to college is great--
pg. 259
"I
read the Sunday comics one afternoon on a Riverside Drive parkbench;
it was
pleasant, it was an early moment of mine in New York when reading
the
funnies on a bench was synonymous, like an idea, with baby carriages
and
maids and mothers. I've since learned
that they'll hide machine guns
in baby
carriages--who put suspicion in--what was the name of that bum
who
stole the housewife's steaming pie from her kitchen windersill? In
America,
the idea of going to college is just like the idea of prosperity
is just
around the corner, it was supposed to solve something or
everything
or something because all you had to do was larn what they
taught
and then everything else was going to be handled; instead of that,
and
just like prosperity that was never around the corner but a couple of
miles
at least (and false prosperity--) going to college by acquainting
me with
all the mad elements of life, such as the sensibilities, books,
arts,
histories of madness, and fashions, has not only made it impossibe
for me
to learn simple tricks of how to earn a living but has deprived me
of my
one-time innocent belief in my own thoughts that used to make me
handle
my own destiny. So now I sit and stew
in a sophistication which
has
taken hold of me just exactly like a disease and makes me lie around
like a
bum all day long and stay up all night goofing with myself. I had
thought,
in and before college, that to be a writer was like being, of
course,
the Emile Zola of the film they made about him with Paul Muni
shouting
angrily in the streets at the dumb and stupid masses, as if he
knew
everything and they didn't know a damn thing; instead of that I
wonder
what working people think of me when they hear my typewriter
clacking
in the middle of the night or what they think I'm up to when I
take
walks at 2 a.m. in outlying surburban neighborhoods--the truth is I
haven't
a single thing to wr--feel foolish...How I wish I could grow corn
tomorrow
morning! How I wish I had enough patience to go and meet Farmer
Brown
in two hours from now, 5 a.m., and go learn early morning farming
matters
from him, and sober, too; and not high on tea, either. Instead
of that
I give myself tremendous headeaches and I am also less paid than
a
Mexican in New Mexico, and at least the Mexican in New Mexico has the
right
to get angry and to feel truly righteous in his heart, if I went
for
righteousness at the face of God on what grounds could I make such a
claim?--where
plant my stick?"
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:26:50 -0500
Reply-To: "Ann J.M.S. Harlan"
<annh@CCRTC.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Ann J.M.S. Harlan"
<annh@CCRTC.COM>
Subject: Re: please read this and vote
Comments:
To: Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>, Stef <Ad_Libitum@msn.com>,
HJW II
<ArchibaldLeach@msn.com>, Stuart Crosby <BRAVES10@msn.com>,
Ron Vassel
<BlizzardKing@msn.com>,
Michael Riddle
<CENTERLINEDESIGN@msn.com>,
Cari Who ELSE????
<CittiGirl@msn.com>, db <Dee-Bee@msn.com>,
Homebrook <Homebrook@msn.com>,
Jason Tinling <JTinlng@msn.com>,
Joseph L <JoePlacebo@msn.com>,
Kevin Mathers <KEVMATH@msn.com>,
Kel Rayner <Manatbar@msn.com>,
the little people
<MarmaladeSkies@msn.com>,
Kent <NoixDeGolf@msn.com>, Jim
B <PBRUEGEL@msn.com>,
Ask and I might tell you
<Peaceful-Warrior2@msn.com>,
R <ROcean@msn.com>, Blair
<Reepoo@msn.com>,
James Sims <SimbaJim@msn.com>,
Sharon <SopAndBass@msn.com>,
Tom Gummo <TGUMMO@msn.com>,
Life is a sick joke and I'm the
punchline <The_Boogey_Man@msn.com>,
rico <UNIR1@msn.com>, Mark
<Vox_Amicus@msn.com>,
"e.e. cummings"
<What-is_death@msn.com>,
Tanya Ceccatto
<_AngelBaby@msn.com>,
_Prometheus1
<_Prometheus1@msn.com>, S Johnson <doc11@msn.com>,
Drew Eskenazi
<drewesk@msn.com>, Robert Lear <king_lear1@msn.com>,
PAUL KOLJESKI <koljeski@msn.com>,
Silver Surfer
<mad-chatter@msn.com>, david simoni <oak123@msn.com>,
Kash Philips
<philkash@msn.com>,
anthony osborne
<rastafarian@msn.com>,
Rico Mariani
<ricom_ms@msn.com>, Robert Eback <rleback@msn.com>,
Stephen Baldwin
<sabaldwin@msn.com>,
BigDaddyRico
<Engelsguy@aol.com>, Don Green <NYCDBG@aol.com>,
cj <sjohn111@aol.com>, Kent
Smedley <Kent.Smedley@clorox.com>,
THEBODYIS1@aol.com
Comments:
cc: mychajlo@fast.net, J_DRUCK@prodigy.com,
rrjwalz@integrityonline.com,
davmark@mindspring.com,
Warshie@prodigy.com,
artworks@concentric.net, CHFriend@aol.com,
joshperi@netvision.net.il,
phibarn@scisun.sci.ccny.cuny.edu,
szucker@isd.net,
sranney@azstarnet.com, zin@juno.com,
marketingedge@msn.com,
cprubin@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il,
jerry.rogoff@exar.com
MIME-Version:
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boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BC8EBE.DFA82380"
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a multi-part message in MIME format.
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hmmmmmmmmm,
into censorship now?
1. I
believe in freedom of speech
2. If
they are plotting in the open, you can keep an eye on them ;-)
Ann
J.M.S. Harlan
annh@ccrtc.com
----------
From:
Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>
To:
Stef <Ad_Libitum@msn.com>; HJW
II <ArchibaldLeach@msn.com>;
Stuart
Crosby
<BRAVES10@msn.com>; Ron Vassel <BlizzardKing@msn.com>; Michael
Riddle
<CENTERLINEDESIGN@msn.com>; Cari Who ELSE???? <CittiGirl@msn.com>;
db <Dee-Bee@msn.com>; Homebrook <Homebrook@msn.com>; Jason Tinling
<JTinlng@msn.com>;
Joseph L <JoePlacebo@msn.com>; Kevin Mathers
<KEVMATH@msn.com>;
Kel Rayner <Manatbar@msn.com>; the little people
<MarmaladeSkies@msn.com>;
Kent <NoixDeGolf@msn.com>; Jim B
<PBRUEGEL@msn.com>;
Ask and I might tell you <Peaceful-Warrior2@msn.com>; R
<ROcean@msn.com>; Blair <Reepoo@msn.com>; James Sims
<SimbaJim@msn.com>;
Sharon <SopAndBass@msn.com>; Tom Gummo
<TGUMMO@msn.com>; Life is a sick
joke
and I'm the punchline <The_Boogey_Man@msn.com>; rico <UNIR1@msn.com>;
Mark <Vox_Amicus@msn.com>; e.e. cummings
<What-is_death@msn.com>; Tanya
Ceccatto
<_AngelBaby@msn.com>; _Prometheus1
<_Prometheus1@msn.com>; S
Johnson
<doc11@msn.com>; Drew Eskenazi <drewesk@msn.com>; Robert Lear
<king_lear1@msn.com>;
x <king_lear1@msn.com>; PAUL
KOLJESKI
<koljeski@msn.com>;
Silver Surfer <mad-chatter@msn.com>; david simoni
<oak123@msn.com>;
Kash Philips <philkash@msn.com>;
anthony osborne
<rastafarian@msn.com>;
Rico Mariani <ricom_ms@msn.com>; Robert Eback
<rleback@msn.com>;
Stephen Baldwin <sabaldwin@msn.com>; anniepoo
<annh@ccrtc.com>;
BigDaddyRico <Engelsguy@aol.com>; Don Green
<NYCDBG@aol.com>;
cj <sjohn111@aol.com>; BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU; Kent
Smedley
<Kent.Smedley@clorox.com>; THEBODYIS1@aol.com
Subject:
FW: please read this and vote
Date:
Monday, June 30, 1997 12:51 pm
This is
important, please take the time.
Ciao,
Sherri
----------
From: Jamey Sims
Sent: Monday, June 30, 1997 9:48 AM
To: 'sherry'; 'Dave'; 'jota'; 'Jacky';
'Sherri'; 'Stella'; 'Jennifer';
'Ralph';
'David Lang'; 'boyeeeeeee'; 'Suzie & Robert'; 'Gary'; 'The Lang
Gang';
'Brandon Wescott'; 'kevey'; 'Dr Cowan'; 'Renee'; 'bogie'; 'Tammy';
'Shari
& Troy'; 'Yvonne'
Subject: FW: please read this and vote
do this
please
--Jamey
----------
From: Marrow
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 1997 3:35 PM
To: Jamey Sims
Subject: please read this and vote
>From:
Marrow <mychajlo@pop.fast.net>
>Subject:
please read this and vote
>
>>From:
J_DRUCK@prodigy.com (MR JEFFREY L DRUCKENMILLER)
>>Date:
Thu, 26 Jun 1997 07:39:12, -0500
>>To:
rrjwalz@integrityonline.com, mychajlo@fast.net
>>Subject:
please read this and vote
>>
>>for
your interest
>>
>>
>>
>><<
Start of Forwarded message via Prodigy Mail >>
>>
>>From: (Warshie) DIANNE WARSHAVER
>>Subject: please read this and vote
>>Date: 06/20
>>Time: 07:28 PM
>>
>>so,
we are never safe from crazies.....
>>
>>
>><<
Start of Forwarded message via Prodigy Mail >>
>>
>>From: David Blum
>>Subject: please read this and vote
>>Date: 06/20
>>Time:
06:55 PM
>>
>>Return-Path:
<davmark@mindspring.com>
>>Received:
from brickbat8.mindspring.com (brickbat8.mindspring.com
>>[207.69.200.11])
>> by pimaia1w.prodigy.com (8.8.5/8.8.5)
with ESMTP id SAA106760
>> for <Warshie@prodigy.com>; Fri, 20
Jun 1997 18:56:48 -0400
>>Received:
from 38.26.20.135 (ip135.an9-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net
>>[38.26.20.135])
>> by brickbat8.mindspring.com
(8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA03646;
>> Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:55:11 -0400 (EDT)
>>Message-ID:
<33AAC4FA.42EF@mindspring.com>
>>Date:
Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:59:22 +0100
>>From:
David Blum <davmark@mindspring.com>
>>Reply-To:
davmark@mindspring.com
>>X-Mailer:
Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; U; 68K)
>>MIME-Version:
1.0
>>To:
"artworks@concentric.net" <artworks@concentric.net>,
>> "CHFriend@aol.com"
<CHFriend@aol.com>,
>> "joshperi@netvision.net.il"
<joshperi@netvision.net.il>,
>> MS DIANNE L WARSHAVER
<Warshie@prodigy.com>,
>> Sarah Barnett
<phibarn@scisun.sci.ccny.cuny.edu>,
>> Steve Zuckerman
<szucker@isd.net>,
>> "Susan E. Ranney"
<sranney@azstarnet.com>,
>> Suzie Dennis Ben David
<marketingedge@msn.com>,
>> "zin@juno.com"
<zin@juno.com>
>>Subject:
please read this and vote
>>Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>>
>>>Forwarded
message:
>>>Subj: No Subject
>>>Date: 97-06-06 03:17:09 EDT
>>>From: Jonapangai
>>>To: CampNicole
>>>
>>>We
have understood that a few Neo-Nazi groups are trying to create
>>>(again)
a usenet group where they want to keep in contact
>>>with
each other regarding their activities. I believe it is not
>>>necessary
to dwell further on these activities.
>>>
>>>The
group is rec.music.white-power
>>>
>>>To
create such a group, they have to win a referendum that is
>>>always
organised when a new usenet group is created.
>>>All
persons with an email address, and only those, can vote
>>>in
this referendum.
>>>
>>>It
is IMPORTANT to vote only once, otherwise the vote is
>>>cancelled.
>>>
>>>To
prevent the creation of this group, you have to:
>>>
>>> 1. Send this message to people you know
>>>
>>> 2. Send an email to the following address:
>>>
>>> music-vote@sub-rosa.com
>>>
>>> 3. In the body of your message (not in the
'subject' line)
>>> include EXACTLY and ONLY the following
line:
>>>
>>> I vote NO on rec.music.white-power
>>>
>>>Since
the vote is automatic, it is IMPORTANT to send the
>>>exact
line as it is given above, without adding anything, not even
>>a
>>>name.
>>>And
please send it only once or it becomes invalid ! Also,
>>>
>>>PLEASE FORWARD
>>>THIS
LETTER TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW WITH AN E-MAIL ADDRESS TO
>>>PREVENT
THE GROUP FOUNDERS FROM CREATING THIS GROUP.
>>>
>>>*********************************************
>>>
Israel Rubinstein
>>>
Professor of Chemistry
>>>
Department of Materials and Interfaces
>>>The
Weizmann Institute of Science
>>>
Rehovot 76100, Israel
>>>Phone:
+972 8 9342678 Fax: +972 8 9344137
>>>
E-mail: cprubin@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il
>>>http://www.weizmann.ac.il/weg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Gerardo
(Jerry) Rogoff
>>Field
Applications Engineer
>>Exar
Corporation
>>500
Clark Rd.
>>Tewksbury,
MA 01876
>>
>>Tel.: (508) 640-8899
>>FAX: (508) 640-6926
>>Pager:
(800) 943-4064
>>
>>email:
jerry.rogoff@exar.com
>>Visit
our Website @: http://www.exar.com
>>
>>
>><<
End of Forwarded message >>
>>
>><Distribution
List>
>> (FJHE36A), J DRUCKENMILLER
>> (TVSG32A), STEVE BOGUS
>>
>>
>><<
End of Forwarded message >>
>>
>>
Sincerely,
Michael
T. Montgomery
mychajlo@fast.net
------=_NextPart_000_01BC8EBE.DFA82380
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text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
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<html><head></head><BODY
bgcolor=3D"#D8D0C8"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#800080"
face=3D"Arial">hmmmmmmmmm, into censorship now?<br>1. =
I
believe in freedom of speech<br>2. If they are plotting in the open, =
you can
keep an eye on them ;-)<br>Ann J.M.S. =
Harlan<br>annh@ccrtc.com<br><br><font
=
color=3D"#000000">----------<br>From:
Sherri <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>love_singing@msn.com</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000">><br>To:
Stef <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Ad_Libitum@msn.com</u><font
color=3D"#000000">>; =
HJW II
<<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>ArchibaldLeach@msn.com</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000">>;
Stuart Crosby <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>BRAVES10@msn.com</u><font
color=3D"#000000">>; =
Ron
Vassel <<font
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>BlizzardKing@msn.com</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000">>;
Michael Riddle <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>CENTERLINEDESIGN@msn.com</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000">>;
Cari Who ELSE???? <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>CittiGirl@msn.com</u><font
color=3D"#000000">>; =
db
<<font
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Dee-Bee@msn.com</u><font =
color=3D"#000000">>;
Homebrook <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Homebrook@msn.com</u><font
color=3D"#000000">>; =
Jason
Tinling <<font
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>JTinlng@msn.com</u><font =
color=3D"#000000">>;
Joseph L <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>JoePlacebo@msn.com</u><font
color=3D"#000000">>; =
Kevin
Mathers <<font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>KEVMATH@msn.com</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000">>;
Kel Rayner <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Manatbar@msn.com</u><font
color=3D"#000000">>; =
the
little people <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>MarmaladeSkies@msn.com</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000">>;
Kent <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>NoixDeGolf@msn.com</u><font
color=3D"#000000">>; =
Jim B
<<font
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>PBRUEGEL@msn.com</u><font =
color=3D"#000000">>;
Ask and I might tell you <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Peaceful-Warrior2@msn.com</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000">>;
R <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>ROcean@msn.com</u><font
color=3D"#000000">>; =
Blair
<<font
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Reepoo@msn.com</u><font =
color=3D"#000000">>;
James Sims <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>SimbaJim@msn.com</u><font
color=3D"#000000">>; =
Sharon
<<font
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>SopAndBass@msn.com</u><font =
color=3D"#000000">>;
Tom Gummo <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>TGUMMO@msn.com</u><font
color=3D"#000000">>; =
Life is
a sick joke and I'm the punchline <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>The_Boogey_Man@msn.com</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000">>;
rico <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>UNIR1@msn.com</u><font
color=3D"#000000">>; Mark =
<<font
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Vox_Amicus@msn.com</u><font =
color=3D"#000000">>;
e.e. cummings <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>What-is_death@msn.com</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000">>;
Tanya Ceccatto <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>_AngelBaby@msn.com</u><font
color=3D"#000000">>; =
_Prometheus1
<<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>_Prometheus1@msn.com</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000">>;
S Johnson <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>doc11@msn.com</u><font
color=3D"#000000">>; Drew =
Eskenazi
<<font
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>drewesk@msn.com</u><font =
color=3D"#000000">>;
Robert Lear <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>king_lear1@msn.com</u><font
color=3D"#000000">>; =
x
<<font
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>king_lear1@msn.com</u><font =
color=3D"#000000">>;
PAUL KOLJESKI <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>koljeski@msn.com</u><font
color=3D"#000000">>; =
Silver
Surfer <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>mad-chatter@msn.com</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000">>;
david simoni <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>oak123@msn.com</u><font
color=3D"#000000">>; =
Kash
Philips <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>philkash@msn.com</u><font
color=3D"#000000">>; =
anthony
osborne <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>rastafarian@msn.com</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000">>;
Rico Mariani <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>ricom_ms@msn.com</u><font
color=3D"#000000">>; =
Robert
Eback <<font
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>rleback@msn.com</u><font =
color=3D"#000000">>;
Stephen Baldwin <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>sabaldwin@msn.com</u><font
color=3D"#000000">>; =
anniepoo
<<font
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>annh@ccrtc.com</u><font =
color=3D"#000000">>;
BigDaddyRico <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Engelsguy@aol.com</u><font
color=3D"#000000">>; =
Don
Green <<font
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>NYCDBG@aol.com</u><font =
color=3D"#000000">>;
cj <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>sjohn111@aol.com</u><font
color=3D"#000000">>; =
<font
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000">;
Kent Smedley <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Kent.Smedley@clorox.com</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000">>;
<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>THEBODYIS1@aol.com</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000"><br>Subject:
FW: please read this and vote<br>Date: =
Monday,
June 30, 1997 12:51 pm<br><br>This is important, please take the =
time.<br>Ciao,
Sherri<br><br>----------<br>From: 	Jamey =
Sims<br>Sent:
	Monday, June 30, 1997 9:48 AM<br>To: 	'sherry'; =
'Dave';
'jota'; 'Jacky'; 'Sherri'; 'Stella'; 'Jennifer'; <br>'Ralph'; =
'David
Lang'; 'boyeeeeeee'; 'Suzie & Robert'; 'Gary'; 'The Lang =
<br>Gang';
'Brandon Wescott'; 'kevey'; 'Dr Cowan'; 'Renee'; 'bogie'; =
'Tammy';
<br>'Shari & Troy'; 'Yvonne'<br>Subject: 	FW:
please =
read
this and vote<br><br>do this =
please<br>--Jamey<br><br>----------<br>From:
	Marrow<br>Sent: =
	Saturday,
June 28, 1997 3:35 PM<br>To: 	Jamey =
Sims<br>Subject:
	please read this and =
vote<br><br><br><br>>From:
Marrow <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>mychajlo@pop.fast.net</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000">><br>>Subject:
please read this and =
vote<br>><br>>>From:
<font =
color=3D"#800080"><u>J_DRUCK@prodigy.com</u><font
color=3D"#000000"> (MR =
JEFFREY
L DRUCKENMILLER)<br>>>Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 07:39:12, =
-0500<br>>>To:
<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>rrjwalz@integrityonline.com</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000">,
<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>mychajlo@fast.net</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000"><br>>>Subject:
please read this and =
vote<br>>><br>>>for
your =
interest<br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><<
Start =
of
Forwarded message via Prodigy Mail =
>><br>>><br>>>From:	
(Warshie) DIANNE =
WARSHAVER<br>>>Subject:	
please read this and =
vote<br>>>Date:	
06/20<br>>>Time:	 07:28 =
PM<br>>><br>>>so,
we are never safe from =
crazies.....<br>>><br>>><br>>><<
Start of =
Forwarded
message via Prodigy Mail =
>><br>>><br>>>From:	
David =
Blum<br>>>Subject:	
please read this and =
vote<br>>>Date:	
06/20<br>>>Time:	 06:55 =
PM<br>>><br>>>Return-Path:
<<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>davmark@mindspring.com</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000">><br>>>Received:
from =
brickbat8.mindspring.com
(brickbat8.mindspring.com =
<br>>>[207.69.200.11])<br>>>	by
pimaia1w.prodigy.com =
(8.8.5/8.8.5)
with ESMTP id SAA106760<br>>>	for <<font
=
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Warshie@prodigy.com</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000">>;
Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:56:48 =
-0400<br>>>Received:
from 38.26.20.135 =
(ip135.an9-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net
=
<br>>>[38.26.20.135])<br>>>	by
brickbat8.mindspring.com =
(8.8.5/8.8.5)
with SMTP id SAA03646;<br>>>	Fri, 20 Jun 1997 =
18:55:11
-0400 (EDT)<br>>>Message-ID: <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>33AAC4FA.42EF@mindspring.com</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000">><br>>>Date:
Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:59:22 =
+0100<br>>>From:
David Blum <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>davmark@mindspring.com</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000">><br>>>Reply-To:
<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>davmark@mindspring.com</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000"><br>>>X-Mailer:
Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; U; =
68K)<br>>>MIME-Version:
1.0<br>>>To: "<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>artworks@concentric.net</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000">"
<<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>artworks@concentric.net</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000">>,<br>>>
=
"<font
=
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>CHFriend@aol.com</u><font
color=3D"#000000">" =
<<font
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>CHFriend@aol.com</u><font =
color=3D"#000000">>,<br>>>
=
"<font
=
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>joshperi@netvision.net.il</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000">"
<<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>joshperi@netvision.net.il</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000">>,<br>>>
=
MS
DIANNE L WARSHAVER =
<<font
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Warshie@prodigy.com</u><font =
color=3D"#000000">>,<br>>>
=
Sarah
Barnett <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>phibarn@scisun.sci.ccny.cuny.edu</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000">>,<br>>>
=
Steve
Zuckerman <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>szucker@isd.net</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000">>,<br>>>
=
"Susan
E. Ranney" =
<<font
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>sranney@azstarnet.com</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000">>,<br>>>
=
Suzie
Dennis Ben David =
<<font
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>marketingedge@msn.com</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000">>,<br>>>
=
"<font
=
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>zin@juno.com</u><font
color=3D"#000000">" =
<<font
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>zin@juno.com</u><font =
color=3D"#000000">><br>>>Subject:
please read this and =
vote<br>>>Content-Type:
text/plain; =
charset=3Dus-ascii<br>>>Content-Transfer-Encoding:
=
7bit<br>>><br>>>>Forwarded
message:<br>>>>Subj: =
No
Subject<br>>>>Date: =
97-06-06
03:17:09 EDT<br>>>>From: =
Jonapangai<br>>>>To:
=
CampNicole<br>>>><br>>>>W=
e have
understood that a few Neo-Nazi groups are trying to =
create<br>>>>(again)
a usenet group where they want to keep in =
contact<br>>>>with
each other regarding their activities. I =
believe
it is not<br>>>>necessary to dwell further on these
=
activities.<br>>>><br>>>>The
group is =
rec.music.white-power<br>>>><br>>>>To
create such a =
group,
they have to win a referendum that is<br>>>>always =
organised
when a new usenet group is created.<br>>>>All
persons =
with an
email address, and only those, can vote<br>>>>in
this =
referendum.<br>>>><br>>>>It
is IMPORTANT to vote only =
once,
otherwise the vote =
is<br>>>>cancelled.<br>>>><br>>>>To
prevent =
the
creation of this group, you have
to:<br>>>><br>>>> =
1.
Send this message to people you =
know<br>>>><br>>>>
2. Send an email =
to the
following
address:<br>>>><br>>>> =
<font
=
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>music-vote@sub-rosa.com</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000"><br>>>><br>>>>
3. =
In the
body of your message (not in the 'subject'
line)<br>>>> =
include
EXACTLY and ONLY the following =
line:<br>>>><br>>>>
=
I
vote NO on =
rec.music.white-power<br>>>><br>>>>Since
the vote is =
automatic,
it is IMPORTANT to send the<br>>>>exact line as it =
is
given above, without adding anything, not even =
<br>>>a<br>>>>name.<br>>>>And
please send it =
only
once or it becomes invalid ! =
Also,<br>>>><br>>>>PLEASE
=
FORWARD<br>>>>THIS
LETTER TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW WITH AN =
E-MAIL
ADDRESS TO<br>>>>PREVENT THE GROUP FOUNDERS FROM =
CREATING
THIS =
GROUP.<br>>>><br>>>>***********************************=
**********<br>>>>
Israel Rubinstein<br>>>> Professor =
of
Chemistry<br>>>> Department of Materials and =
Interfaces<br>>>>The
Weizmann Institute of =
Science<br>>>>
Rehovot 76100, Israel<br>>>>Phone: +972 =
8
9342678 Fax: +972 8
9344137<br>>>> =
E-mail:
<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>cprubin@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000"><br>>>><font
=
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>http://www.weizmann.ac.il/weg</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000"><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>=
;>Gerardo
(Jerry) Rogoff<br>>>Field Applications =
Engineer<br>>>Exar
Corporation<br>>>500 Clark =
Rd.<br>>>Tewksbury,
MA 01876<br>>><br>>>Tel.: =
(508)
640-8899<br>>>FAX: (508) =
640-6926<br>>>Pager:
(800) 943-4064<br>>><br>>>email: =
<font
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>jerry.rogoff@exar.com</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000"><br>>>Visit
our Website @: <font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>http://www.exar.com</u><font
=
color=3D"#000000"><br>>><br>>><br>>><<
End of =
Forwarded
message
>><br>>><br>>><Distribution
=
List><br>>>	(FJHE36A),
J DRUCKENMILLER =
&=
nbsp; <br>>>	(TVSG32A),
=
STEVE
BOGUS =
&=
nbsp; <br>>=
><br>>><br>>><<
End of Forwarded message =
>><br>>><br>>><br><br><br>Sincerely,<br>Michael
T. =
Montgomery<br><font
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>mychajlo@fast.net</u><font =
color=3D"#000000"><br><br><br><br></p>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></f=
ont></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font=
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nt></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font>=
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ont></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font=
></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></=
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t></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font><=
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nt></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font>=
</font></font></font></font></font></font></body></html>
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:30:04 -0500
Reply-To: "Ann J.M.S. Harlan"
<annh@CCRTC.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Ann J.M.S. Harlan"
<annh@CCRTC.COM>
Subject: Re: please read this and vote
Comments:
To: Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>, Stef <Ad_Libitum@msn.com>,
HJW II
<ArchibaldLeach@msn.com>, Stuart Crosby <BRAVES10@msn.com>,
Ron Vassel
<BlizzardKing@msn.com>,
Michael Riddle
<CENTERLINEDESIGN@msn.com>,
Cari Who ELSE????
<CittiGirl@msn.com>, db <Dee-Bee@msn.com>,
Homebrook <Homebrook@msn.com>,
Jason Tinling <JTinlng@msn.com>,
Joseph L <JoePlacebo@msn.com>,
Kevin Mathers <KEVMATH@msn.com>,
Kel Rayner <Manatbar@msn.com>,
the little people
<MarmaladeSkies@msn.com>,
Kent <NoixDeGolf@msn.com>, Jim B
<PBRUEGEL@msn.com>,
Ask and I might tell you
<Peaceful-Warrior2@msn.com>,
R <ROcean@msn.com>, Blair
<Reepoo@msn.com>,
James Sims <SimbaJim@msn.com>,
Sharon <SopAndBass@msn.com>,
Tom Gummo <TGUMMO@msn.com>,
Life is a sick joke and I'm the
punchline <The_Boogey_Man@msn.com>,
rico <UNIR1@msn.com>, Mark
<Vox_Amicus@msn.com>,
"e.e. cummings"
<What-is_death@msn.com>,
Tanya Ceccatto <_AngelBaby@msn.com>,
_Prometheus1
<_Prometheus1@msn.com>, S Johnson <doc11@msn.com>,
Drew Eskenazi
<drewesk@msn.com>, Robert Lear <king_lear1@msn.com>,
PAUL KOLJESKI
<koljeski@msn.com>,
Silver Surfer <mad-chatter@msn.com>,
david simoni <oak123@msn.com>,
Kash Philips
<philkash@msn.com>,
anthony osborne
<rastafarian@msn.com>,
Rico Mariani
<ricom_ms@msn.com>, Robert Eback <rleback@msn.com>,
Stephen Baldwin
<sabaldwin@msn.com>,
BigDaddyRico
<Engelsguy@aol.com>, Don Green <NYCDBG@aol.com>,
cj <sjohn111@aol.com>, Kent
Smedley <Kent.Smedley@clorox.com>,
THEBODYIS1@aol.com
Comments:
cc: mychajlo@fast.net, J_DRUCK@prodigy.com,
rrjwalz@integrityonline.com,
davmark@mindspring.com,
Warshie@prodigy.com,
artworks@concentric.net, CHFriend@aol.com,
joshperi@netvision.net.il,
phibarn@scisun.sci.ccny.cuny.edu,
szucker@isd.net,
sranney@azstarnet.com, zin@juno.com,
marketingedge@msn.com, cprubin@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il,
jerry.rogoff@exar.com
MIME-Version:
1.0
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boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BC8EBF.5331C680"
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a multi-part message in MIME format.
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P.S. in
case you're wondering, I abstain from voting one way or the other
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<html><head></head><BODY
bgcolor=3D"#D8D0C8"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#800080"
face=3D"Arial">P.S. in case you're wondering, I =
abstain
from voting one way or the other<font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#000000"><br><font
size=3D2><br></p>
</font></font></font></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_01BC8EBF.5331C680--
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 14:09:49 -0400
Reply-To: SSASN@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: cody thoughts
Sherri:
A very
thoughtful post.
I think
all of your points are interesting possibilities. Besides, whatever
JK may
have been thinking, meaning or influenced by when he wrote VOC or his
other
works is not necessarily the last word, so to speak. If YOU or any
other
respondent THINKS so, it IS so. I think
it was Stravinsky who once
said
that a composer only arranges notes, each listener fills them in.
Your
"always the promise but never the dream come true" passage near the
end
of your
post especially struck me. There is an
undertow of unfulfilled
yearning
and forlornness throughout JK's ouvre, which he regarded as one long
work
(as does WSB of his output). In a
passage from OTR, Sal Paradise (JK)
rushes
exuberantly down toward a river, only to run into a fence. Throughout
OTR, it
seems that only in the pendulum movement back and forth across the
continent
itself is there a fleeting capture of "IT", what they were looking
for is
just behind or ahead in the flow of movement.
He and most of the
others
he writes about are running away from and toward something
concurrently,
in an unending treadmill like an experiential/emotional food
chain. In OTR, VOC and all the other works, we see
JK and co. circulating on
the
"quivering meat wheel" of bhuddist-influenced temporal recognition,
while
their
spirits gaze outward and upward.
Regards,
Arthur
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 18:31:21 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: cody thoughts
Arthur,
yes, I
have particularly thought that JK's elusive dream is much like the
Wizard
of Oz... we always look outside ourselves, chasing things that never
surfeit.
i have some intuitive sense that, underneath it all, JK realized it
was all
within him, but the head could not inform the heart...
interpretation
is such mix of the subjective and objective.... how many times
have i
read something, listened to music and had it take on new feelings and
meanings
- increase in knowledge, state of mind, even the physical state can
heavily
influence the interpreter's reception of the input.
ciao,
sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Arthur Nusbaum
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 1997 11:09 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: cody thoughts
Sherri:
A very
thoughtful post.
I think
all of your points are interesting possibilities. Besides, whatever
JK may
have been thinking, meaning or influenced by when he wrote VOC or his
other
works is not necessarily the last word, so to speak. If YOU or any
other
respondent THINKS so, it IS so. I think
it was Stravinsky who once
said
that a composer only arranges notes, each listener fills them in.
Your
"always the promise but never the dream come true" passage near the
end
of your
post especially struck me. There is an
undertow of unfulfilled
yearning
and forlornness throughout JK's ouvre, which he regarded as one long
work
(as does WSB of his output). In a
passage from OTR, Sal Paradise (JK)
rushes
exuberantly down toward a river, only to run into a fence. Throughout
OTR, it
seems that only in the pendulum movement back and forth across the
continent
itself is there a fleeting capture of "IT", what they were looking
for is
just behind or ahead in the flow of movement.
He and most of the
others
he writes about are running away from and toward something
concurrently,
in an unending treadmill like an experiential/emotional food
chain. In OTR, VOC and all the other works, we see
JK and co. circulating on
the
"quivering meat wheel" of bhuddist-influenced temporal recognition,
while
their
spirits gaze outward and upward.
Regards,
Arthur
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 16:32:40 -0400
Reply-To: SSASN@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Cody: Imitation of the Tape
Diane:
I'm
behind in responding to some of your earlier posts, but to strike the
hammer
while the iron is hot as to this, your latest installment in the
voluminous
VOC discussion now occupying us:
The
lengthy passage you quote from this section of VOC where JK muses on his
predicament
as a writer is very poignant, tragically humorous, humorously
tragic,
laugh until you cry, cry until you laugh, etc., etc. He gets
(descends?)
into this theme from time to time in this and other works.
There's a passage in another work that's at
the tip of my tongue/mind, I
just
can't think of it right now, I probably will remember this as soon as
"your
mail has been sent", or you can tell me if you know. Anyway, it is a
thinly
fictionalized (as usual) description of one of JK's visits to his
sister
Nin's home in rural North Carolina, and he wonders what the local
denizens
think of him as he takes long walks into the forest in the middle of
the
day- do they find him pathetic or are they envious? He gets defensive,
showing
an essential insecurity that I suspect he never quite overcame, all
but
coming out and saying "I may seem like a shiftless loafer/bum/hobo, but
I'm
busting my butt, working hard and with scores of complete works under my
belt,
albeit unpublished after a promising start" (remember the 7 years
between
the publications of THE TOWN AND THE CITY and ON THE ROAD). Partly,
it is a
self-fortifying process, he has to assure himself of the validity and
integrity
of his efforts, at times like what he's describing in your quoted
passage,
there's no one else, not even NC, to do the assuring. And he wavers
wildly
between self-confidence and utter despair, even literally knocking his
head
against the wall of the house, according to his description.
I think
that part of the depth of feeling the works of JK, including VOC,
elicit
in the reader is a sort of frustrated wish to cut through time and
squeeze
his arm, pat him on the shoulder, whatever, and say "people
appreciate
you, you've been validated a thousand times over, those status-quo
critics
are the ones forgotten in the trashbin of history, you've touched and
are
loved by so many....", but alas it's too late, he did not live to be
caught
up with as we have, he was "....never taken seriously while he lived"
as John
Clellon Holmes said in the (great) WHAT HAPPENED TO KEROUAC? film
biography.
Ginsberg
once said of WSB (as recounted near the end of EL HOMBRE INVISIBLE
by
Barry Miles) that his life was a demonstration of "lonely
courage". In
WSB's
case, he has lived long enough for many admirers to understand and
appreciate
this quality and what it produced. The
spectre of the bitter,
bloated
chronic alcoholic that Kerouac became before his premature death
hangs
over these passages. But his works, if
not his sad haunted self during
his
brief earthly incarnation, got the last laugh and are immortal.
Regards,
Arthur
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 20:01:00 -0400
Reply-To: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Visions of Cody
Comments:
To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
In-Reply-To: <UPMAIL14.199707121829320495@msn.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Interesting
to note that "Visions of Cody" was the one major Kerouac work
not
published during his lifetime. It was
published in the early 70's
at the
insistence of Allen Ginsberg, who had promised Kerouac he'd get it
published
and who knocked on doors for years with the manuscript before
getting
it sold. Allen's forward, "visions
of the great remember" is in
the
early editions of 'Cody' and it is terrific.
This book being in
print
is one friend's lasting tribute to another.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:01:24 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: NEA (was Re academics)
Comments:
To: BOHEMIAN@maelstrom.stjohns.edu
In a
message dated 97-07-12 00:28:51 EDT, you write:
<<
I was getting tired of paying (taxes) to subsidize my own competition <g>
>>
The
thing that the Nea overlooked was taht the "quality" was going down.
As
Hart
Crane sd in a poem abt Akron after a song'poet fiddler==we paid the guy
because
we liked it. The NEA pitch was that it
was only a few cents out of
taxpayer's
pockets. I'd like my few cents back from all those poets who got
20
grand to proliferate their workshop poems. If they all paid me back, I'd
have a
few bucks. If everyone who paid in those few cents wanted their money
back,
that would amount to a few million. I really got tired of the wkshop
academics
who handed money to each other. Let them find their own way. if
they
have somthing to say.
If
anyone is interested in my Catfish
McDaris Chiron interview that caused a
fuss,
it is now on line at <http://www.thing.net/~grist/homebove.htm> Robert
Bove
has a fine liitle mag going. Check it out.
BTW
Dave Breithaupt, I got the old memeo GRIST today you wanted to trade for
Apocalypse
Rose, Do you have Haselwood's edition? I'll try to make a special
edition
for you anyway.
C.
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 09:48:57 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Cody: Imitation of the Tape
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>Arthur
Nusbaum wrote:
>
>
The lengthy passage you quote from this section of VOC where JK muses
> on
his
>
predicament as a writer is very poignant, tragically humorous,
>
humorously
>
tragic, laugh until you cry, cry until you laugh, etc., etc. He gets
>
(descends?) into this theme from time to time in this and other
>
works...He gets defensive,
>
showing an essential insecurity that I suspect he never quite overcame,
>
all
>
but coming out and saying "I may seem like a shiftless loafer/bum/hobo,
>
but
>
I'm busting my butt, working hard and with scores of complete works
>
under my
>
belt, albeit unpublished after a promising start" (remember the 7 years
>
between the publications of THE TOWN AND THE CITY and ON THE ROAD).
>
Partly,
> it
is a self-fortifying process, he has to assure himself of the
>
validity and
>
integrity of his efforts, at times like what he's describing in your
>
quoted
>
passage, there's no one else, not even NC, to do the assuring. And he
>
wavers
>
wildly between self-confidence and utter despair, even literally
>
knocking his
>
head against the wall of the house, according to his description.
Arthur,
The
role of the writer carrying that burden of having to write about life
as well
as live it also seems to play a part in what Jack found
appealing
about the way Neal lived life. Neal was
unfettered in a way
because
it was never really his destiny to write about what they were
doing. Kerouac sensed his own gift, he not only was
sensitive, felt too
much,
but he also had to articulate all of it into words. That makes the
fact
that publishers discarded his works doubly tragic. Here was a great
writer,
as you say, wavering "wildly between self-confidence and utter
despair."
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:54:22 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: eye heart crane
In a
message dated 97-07-12 05:07:15 EDT, you write:
<<
Were you ever much of a "dandy"
Charley? Ever take any interests in
fashion?
>>
Shit.
Haven't you seen the photos of me "going to Kansas City in my zoot
suit?
Look at: www.buchenroth.com/cplymell.html and find the photos of me in
the
50s.
CP
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 20:49:54 -0500
Reply-To: LISA VEDROS <2ndbeat@TELAPEX.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: LISA VEDROS
<2ndbeat@TELAPEX.COM>
Subject: Secind Beat
Comments:
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU.
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
hey,
Thadeus here....upon suggestion from Sherri, I've decided to post a
list of
the contributors to the Allen Ginsberg Memorial Issue of Second
Beat.
Me,
Thadeus D'Angelo
my
partner, Domenic Salvatore
and a
whole slew of talented beat kats: Ralph Alfonso, Gary Parker, Michael
Stutz,
David Laslie, Christopher Lott, Simon
Seamount.....and "Allen
Ginsberg
Dying" by Lawrence Ferlinghetti
there
are also a few articles and such.
I think
it's a pretty good read, as magazines go. We tried to do our best
to
honor his memory. It's our best issue yet....but it's the first issue
since
we upgraded our system, so that says alot.
anyway,
once again:
The
Allen Ginsberg Memorial Issue of Second Beat is available for $1.00,
and is
full of poetry and articles about the "Best Mind of Our Generation."
Send a
buck to:
Camelia
City Books
2034
Johnston Station Road
Summit,
Ms 39666
Thanks,
Thadeus
D'Angelo, Camelia City Books
also...for
maybe a dollar or so to cover the postage, we'll send you our
two
free sample issue....the "experimental" issues.
we
started out as a non-profit magazine. then we got real broke real fast.
now
we're a low-profit magazine. any donations in the way of a buck or so
extra
would be HIGHY appreciated, but we WILL continue to send issues for
only
ONE dollar an issue and TEN dollars for a year subscription.
I hope
we live up to our predecessors, the original beats, and I hope we
can
supply to all of you a good magazine.
once
again, feel free to submit ANY prose or poetry. it'll most likely see
print,
as one of our main functions is to let new writers see their words
in
print.
that's
me Second Beat in a nutshell, people. any qeustions, e-mail us at:
2ndbeat@telapex.com
thanks
again,
Thadeus
D'Angelo, Camellia City Books
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 22:19:22 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: eye heart crane
Double
-Duty Dandy- a charachter in Last of the Moccasins. Also when Barbitol
Bob and
I got outta the joint in 50's we had a stable of girls and "girls". I
travelled
the Northwest with my sister, who was a prostitute in the 50's. The
men
were rounders or dandys or pimps, Followed basically the same roads as
Jack
Black, The sheriff checked hands for callouses to know who didn't work.
My
sister's man was the son of the sheriif of Deadwood, S.D. and a black
madam.
somewhat like East of Eden -James Dean. I migrated to Hollywood and
KC. I
label myself and genre as "Hobohemian Hipster",Also publishe in a
couple
recent issuse of NIGHT mag from the Gershwin Hotel in NYC. High
fashion
as you can get.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 22:41:26 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Cody Notes and Queries
In a
message dated 97-07-12 08:56:12 EDT, you write:
<<
Find myself wondering whether the real Neal was really a good pool
player.
Doesn't seem the right type. I
have watched some great 9 ball
players.
Most are really idiot savants.
Great concentration and hand
and eye.
Good sense of just how good they need to play at a given time
to keep the fish on. Can't remember any that
were talkers. travel with a
horse who gets the game up, carries money,
and can sense how deep the
pockets are.
Neal strikes me as maybe a decent bar eightball player on
a table where shots don't have to be
called. Lot's of serendipitous
slop shots and a good patter. Don't trust Jack as a reliable witness
on this as he was clearly way too
infatuated. Ginsberg even less
credible.
Charley, Leon, and all you historians, help
me out on this cunnumdrum.
J. Stauffer
>>
You got
that exactly, James. Right down to interpretation, too. Neal was a
sweetheart,
but I don't think he even liked pool halls. I remember some guy
wanting
to start something in a bar/poolhall and Neal came over to me to
"interrupt"
the play. He was a "peacable man" as any grade B movie hero wd
tell
ya. Fighting wasn't his thing. He only defended the title, "The fastest
Word in
the West". I admired him for that. His eye and coordination was for
driving,
not shooting pool.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 22:55:28 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: "buy me a bicycle and cut my
skin"
In a
message dated 97-07-12 09:42:34 EDT, you write:
<<
<<hm>> breathe -- I'm asking you
"buy me a skin and cut my bicycle"
"bicycle skin and buy me a cut"
"me skin cut buy bicycle and my"
--==+ so thanx Charley Plymell
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/images/Hidden_equinox.html
Douglas
>>
Wow!
That's incredible. Is that a collage? Do you have a print of it?
Actually,
I must confess I stole that line from som old book from France I
believe
that were case studies of insane kids. That line stuck in my mind for
years
and I had no way of knowing its documentation, so I did a Dutch
Schultz/Burroughs
borrowing. The credit goes to some poor kid in a maison de
sante
many years ago. Let us bless him or her.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:14:24 +0000
Reply-To: randyr@southeast.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is
<randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>
From: randy royal
<randyr@SOUTHEAST.NET>
Subject: Re: skimming Part 1 Cody
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-type:
text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding:
7BIT
>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 11:53:53
-0400
>
Reply-to: SSASN@AOL.COM
>
From: Arthur Nusbaum
<SSASN@AOL.COM>
>
Subject: Re: skimming Part 1 Cody
>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
Dear David:
>
> At
the end of your "skimming part 1 Cody" message, you write:
>
>
"bye bye- off to count the number of times Henry Fonda appears in Part One
(i
>
didn't catch Jimmy Stewart in there at all- damn shame!)....
>
>
Since we're on the subject of such references, did you notice the description
> of
JK running into a movie scene being filmed in front of a San Francisco
>
apartment building? By coincidence, I
saw the movie SUDDEN FEAR with Joan
>
Crawford and Jack Palance just before encountering the passage, and put 2&2
>
together- he is describing a scene from that movie being shot on location. I
>
don't have the book with me now but I will try to locate it, I think but am
>
not sure that it's in part 1, and he uses a thinly-disguised name for Joan
>
Crawford who's at the center of the anecdote, it's a great description of the
>
weirdness and tension he experiences when he bumps into this scene.
>
>
Regards,
>
>
Arthur S. Nusbaum
>
>
the
passage your thinking of is the last part of VOC, JOan raWSHanKs
in the
FOg.... i know this because about a week before all of this
summer
reading buzz happened, i just finished visions of cody.... am
randomly
rereading passages though, because the rest of you are and i
thought
why not? cya~ randy
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 23:19:09 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: eye heart crane
In a
message dated 97-07-12 17:41:03 EDT, you write:
<<
Sherri,
Particularly in poetry, there a place where
over-analysis starts to
overide the impact of one's initial response
emotionally to a poem.
That's the feeling I get with where you guys
are going with this one.
I don't suggest that you not continue to
look for books of Charles'
poems, but in the meantime, check out his web
site,
http://www.buchenroth.com/cplymell.html
There you will find much of his writing
including a 148K file of the
poems in Robbin the Pillars for Generation X
in the Age of Apostasy,
including the one you are discussing.
DC >>
poor
girl freaks hides her face in hands
great
poetry, Cleopatra
Why
can't you buy my books from Jeff Weinberg? Am I censored? He may have a
few
left.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 23:28:03 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Visions of Cody
Seems I
remember something about City Lights turning it down. I think CL has
become
a little hotbed of nepotism
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 01:34:19 -0700
Reply-To: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: Cody Notes and Queries
Comments:
To: stauffer@pacbell.net
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=x-user-defined
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
James
Stauffer wrote:
>
>
Sloshing my way still through Part 2.
>
>
Find myself wondering whether the real Neal was really a good pool
>
player. Doesn't seem the right type.
>
Charley, Leon, and all you historians, help me out on this cunnumdrum.
>
> J.
Stauffer
> .-
James
and whoever is interested,
In the
nine years that I have been pretty
close friends with Neal, he
has not
shown a great interst in playing pool, or talked about himself
as a
great pool player. He could become very animated when watching car
races
or talking about race car drivers drivers, but not so much about
pool
playing.
leon
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 08:24:13 -0400
Reply-To: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: small pome
Mime-Version:
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INTOXICATION
(for
michael and craig)
clouds
burst
and
rain down
on
poets
wandering
in street
searching
for poetical drink.
suddenly
drenched!
clouds
burst!
we
laugh and turn faces up,
mouths
open
to
drink in the sky--
leap-frogging
puddles,
laughing
tumbling
shouting
splashing!
until,
many blocks later
we pour ourselves into the car,
ending
the best
poetical
drunk
by far.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:36:04 +0200
Reply-To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Dean Moriarty & cars.
Mime-Version:
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friends,
i quote
from ''On The Road'' ..."Friday night beyond all doubt the
three
of us - the old threesome of Carlo, Dean, and Sal -
must go
to the midget auto races, and for that I can get
us a
ride from a guy downtown I know...",
in
italian "midget car" was translated as "microvettura",
("Sulla
strada", 1959), but im' a bit confused cos micro
is a
prefix for infinitesimally little, i dont' know
what
kind of car was involved in races in America during 1947,
&
at the moment in Italy a "microvettura" is like those little
toys
(just so tiny car) operated by remote control,
any
idea 'bout "midget car"?
cari
saluti,
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
btw Enrico Caruso (Naples 1873 - Naples
1921),
was the first opera singer who
recorded on disk his
own performances.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:58:47 -0500
Reply-To: "john v. omlor"
<omlor@PACKET.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "john v. omlor"
<omlor@PACKET.NET>
Subject: An Introductory Offering.
Mime-Version:
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Hello.
I've
recently joined this list and thought by way of introduction I'd post
a piece
I wrote a few years back (since I notice that people seem ok about
posting
and reading each others' creative stuff here as well as their
critical
insights). Me? My name is John and I teach literature at
the
University
of South Florida. I've taught a seminar
on the "beats" a couple
of
times and try and teach some of the stuff (especially Kerouac, Ginsberg,
Corso,
and Ferlinghetti) whenever possible in Americal Lit. courses or
modern
lit. courses or poetry surveys or even Blake seminars, etc..
Although
my "area," as they say in academe, is actually "postmodern"
lit
and
theory (my diss. was on Garcia Marquez and Derrida), I do get to teach
almost
all 19th and 20th century British, American and world lit at one
time or
another and I have a particular soft spot for a lot of the works
discussed
on this list. Well, enough about
work. Poetry is something