=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:05:56 -0400

Reply-To:     Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: CODY: what murder?

In-Reply-To:  <33C47BDA.74EA@together.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

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>There have been a couple of references so far to something about Bull and

>June and a murder.  Can't find the other references at the moment

>but here again on page 186, we have: "...on into August, and in between

>June and August everything happened, the murder took place."  Is this

>ever explicated?

_____________

murder of demented stalker of lucien carr by same. forget his name. andy

wharhol was right/

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:18:25 -0700

Reply-To:     vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Adrien Begrand <vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>

Subject:      Re: CODY: what murder?

Comments: To: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Marie Countryman wrote:

>

> _____________

> murder of demented stalker of lucien carr by same. forget his name. andy

> wharhol was right/

> mc

 

David Kamerrer. Carr's obsessive gym coach or something like that...

 

adrien

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:11:19 -0700

Reply-To:     Jens Koch <jenskoch@POST1.TELE.DK>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jens Koch <jenskoch@POST1.TELE.DK>

Subject:      To Cody it was a vision..

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I still haven't caught up with all the posts on beat-l AND reading VOC at the

 same time

as this nation is going berserk over the heatwave and the

deeds of Danish cyclists "on the road" in Tour de France, and on top of that the

upcoming Copenhagen visit by Bill Clinton, so if someone has already brought up

 this

subject please bear with me. Anyway, on p.64 (McGrawHill), it says, "To Cody it

 was a

vision, the moment of his arrival that everybody was waiting for, yet even

 though he

stood in the door at the side of the great cool Tom Watson the Virgil of this

 big

Inferno..."

My first question is who Tom Watson is supposed to be? My second, and most

 important

question, is to do with what "role" Dante, Virgil and the Divine Comedy can be

 said to

have had for Kerouac's own poetic vision ?

My own only input, really, is that I know from the JK ROMnibus that Dante was

 way up

high on his own reading list; the second thing is that Kerouac's understanding

 of beat

and beatitude must have been inspired to some extent at least by Beatrice, the

 women

Dante was supposed to have fallen in love with as a child, and even though they

 barely

knew each other Dante was on a lifelong quest to regain her, finally meeting her

 in

Paradiso. When he first went to hell he was met by Virgil, his guide through the

 many

layers.

Has anyone any thoughts or information on this matter ?

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:38:26 -0700

Reply-To:     "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: CODY: what murder?

Mime-Version: 1.0

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At 01:05 PM 7/10/97 -0400, you wrote:

>>There have been a couple of references so far to something about Bull and

>>June and a murder.  Can't find the other references at the moment

>>but here again on page 186, we have: "...on into August, and in between

>>June and August everything happened, the murder took place."  Is this

>>ever explicated?

>_____________

>murder of demented stalker of lucien carr by same. forget his name. andy

>wharhol was right/

>mc

>

>

 

In the tapes they were talking about Burroughs (Bull) killing his wife

(June).  A lot of the tape is ttheir conversation of what it was like when

Cody was staying at Bull's farm in Texas with Irwin and Huck.  Later they

are talking about what happened in Mexico when Bull killed June.  Cody asks

the pretinent question of what Bull feels when he hears the William Tell

Overture.  Bull's first story was that they were doing a William Tell trick

where he tried to shoot a glass off his wife's head but missed and killed

here.  In the tape they talk later of how Bull changed his story and said

the gun went of accidentally.

 

There is a lot of discussion in the tape about Bull.  Of course Bull is

William Burroughs who killed his wife in Mexico City by shooting her at

close range in the head.  He was never prosecuted for this.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:47:50 -0400

Reply-To:     Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>

Subject:      Re: CODY: what murder?

In-Reply-To:  <l03020901afea8e8589d3@[206.25.67.129]>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Marie Countryman wrote:

 

> >There have been a couple of references so far to something about Bull and

> >June and a murder.  Can't find the other references at the moment

> >but here again on page 186, we have: "...on into August, and in between

> >June and August everything happened, the murder took place."  Is this

> >ever explicated?

> _____________

> murder of demented stalker of lucien carr by same. forget his name. andy

> wharhol was right/

David Krammerer <sp?> or something like that.  The reason Kerouac and

Ginsberg, I think, went to jail (asylum for Ginsy) and Kerouac got out by

marrying.  Chronicled, I'm told, in the unpublished (soon to be published

I thinks I heard somewhere) _And_The_Hippos_Were_Boilded_in_Their_Tanks_.

 

------------------

Alex Howard  (704)264-8259                    Appalachian State University

kh14586@acs.appstate.edu                      P.O. Box 12149

http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~kh14586          Boone, NC  28608

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:13:34 -0500

Reply-To:     jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Diane De Rooy & MemBabeCollection

Mime-Version: 1.0

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Diane De Rooy wrote to G. Nicosia:

>>And let me caution you here: you are certainly free to write me one response

>>to this letter, personally, at this address. If you opt for that, I will

>>accept the letter, but after that, I'm blocking you from my email, and will

>>consider any other contact from you to be harassment. If you infer, imply,

>>directly state or otherwise opine in any public forum, in writing or

>>verbally, that I am lying or am a liar, or attempt to discredit me or harm my

>>reputation in any way, I will not demonstrate to you the good will and

>>tolerance you've enjoyed from all the other people you've libeled and

>>slandered.

>>

>>Diane De Rooy

 

 Gerry Nicosia's answer was right to the point. No need to repeat it.

 

Diane:

 

I'm taking Patricia Elliots response to heart and sending this to the list.

 

I have tried to give all parties to this conflict the benefit of the doubt.

I don't like to judge. However, since I think I was the person who put you

in touch with Gerry Nicosia when you told meyou were involved with writing

a story about JK and/or Jan K , I have to state that I am completely

perplexed at  where this has gone and seems to be going.

 

I do not question that you have authored articles and done some features

for NPR--although I have not read any of them, nor heard them. You tellme

youhave. I believe you. Yet there are so many elements that would have

provided you with answers to questions you were asking that seem to have

been missed.

 

The catalogue, of what U.MassLowell purchased from Gerry, had to be a key

element in your research. The catalogue has been mentioned frequrently over

the past couple of months. You know that most collections are catalogued

yet it appears you have never requested a copy from the library. This would

have shown that Gerry's description of the collection was true, and that

what you have been told--that the collection contained no original

material--was a lie. That alone, should have made you suspect of some of

your sources.

 

Sometimes, when a person gets caught up in a story--a story that's

important to them--and the information they want isn't forthcoming, they

allow a not-unusual-incident (such as Gerry refusing you access to certain

information/material) to adversely affect your judgement about that person.

I think this has happened to you.

 

I can claim no succes as a writer, but I have some skills at research. As a

researcher I would advise you to reevaluate the direction your research is

taking you and to step back for an objective look at where you find

yourself and who you appear to be aligning yourself with.

 

THIS TO GERRY NICOSIA:

 

Gerry,

 

There appear to be a few people who are going to be taking shots at you

regardless  of what the facts are. Sometimes it's difficult to ignore

unwarrented accusations. Please try to do so. I, as a Korean War vet, along

with vets from all recent wars and particularly the vets from the Vietnam

War, are waiting for one of the most important publishing events to come

out of that war, the history of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War--the

VVAW movement. With 58,000 dead in that war and another 58,000 suicides and

drug deaths of returned Vietnam Vets, HOME TO WAR is being counted on to

provide desperately needed information about the indespensible role

veterans played in ending that war. Hopefully it will provide a closure to

the suffering of those to talk, but are seldom heard, and those who

demonstrate, but are seldom seen.

 

Write On Gerry. Ignore the distractions. At least for now.

 

j grant

 

 

 

 

 

                BE ON THE WATCH

for items stolen from the Keroauc Collection

        O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell

http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html

 

Academic & Small Press Authors & publishers

                display books free at

           <http://www.bookzen.com>

    375,913 visitors from 07-96 to 07-97

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:23:37 -0500

Reply-To:     thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jennifer Thompson <thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU>

Subject:      chat

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

i tried the chat room.  no one there.  i asked some people if they

were list members, and received several "huhs?" in response.

 

anyhow, i'll probably be lurking there on mon.s and thurs.  around 2 p.m.

indiana time, whatever that is.

 

hope to see some of you there.

jenn

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:24:08 EDT

Reply-To:     Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Diane DeRooy & Membabe Collection

 

It seems to me that the letter forwarded to the list by Jo Grant was a

private communication between two people and should not have been

reposted to the list.  I urge listmembers with any feelings on this

matter to communicate them directly to Mr. Grant rather than to post

such replies to the list.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:33:08 -0400

Reply-To:     Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      jo grant/nicosia

In-Reply-To:  <v03007802afe96a48dc7e@[156.46.45.77]>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

i would like to add my voice to jo grant's request that you forge on with

the book that so many vets AND nonvets have waited for so long. your Memory

Babe, despite all the whoolawhoola that has come to pass on this list, is

one of the most brillant pieces of literary autobiography written and in my

opinion the best.

mc

 

>>Gerry,

>

>There appear to be a few people who are going to be taking shots at you

>regardless  of what the facts are. Sometimes it's difficult to ignore

>unwarrented accusations. Please try to do so. I, as a Korean War vet, along

>with vets from all recent wars and particularly the vets from the Vietnam

>War, are waiting for one of the most important publishing events to come

>out of that war, the history of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War--the

>VVAW movement. With 58,000 dead in that war and another 58,000 suicides and

>drug deaths of returned Vietnam Vets, HOME TO WAR is being counted on to

>provide desperately needed information about the indespensible role

>veterans played in ending that war. Hopefully it will provide a closure to

>the suffering of those to talk, but are seldom heard, and those who

>demonstrate, but are seldom seen.

>

>Write On Gerry. Ignore the distractions. At least for now.

>

>j grant

>

>

>

>

>

>                BE ON THE WATCH

>for items stolen from the Keroauc Collection

>        O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell

>http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html

>

>Academic & Small Press Authors & publishers

>                display books free at

>           <http://www.bookzen.com>

>    375,913 visitors from 07-96 to 07-97

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:34:58 -0500

Reply-To:     thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jennifer Thompson <thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU>

Subject:      not beat related list question

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

WARNING: this question isn't beat related, feel free to delete.

 

well, for the few of you left.  does anyone know of a list, or chat room,

that would be appropriate for a would-be, wanna be, Poe scholar. (not me,

a friend).

 

i'd appreciate any input.

jenn

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:21:00 -0500

Reply-To:     jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Bill Gargon

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Bill,

 

Regarding the De Rooy - Nicosia post. I must have missed where the post

came from. Thought it was the Beat-L. Must have been sent directly to me.

 

Sorry for the inconvenience.

 

j grant

 

                BE ON THE WATCH

for items stolen from the Keroauc Collection

        O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell

http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html

 

Academic & Small Press Authors & publishers

                display books free at

           <http://www.bookzen.com>

    375,913 visitors from 07-96 to 07-97

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:32:25 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Course

 

Yeah, good idea. He wants me to do anything I think up.

Charley

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:48:57 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Fwd: CORNIX and VORTEX

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

My vortex has been glommed onto.  The following post should be of relevan=

ce

to some on the beat-list which started me and Buchenroth on this train.  =

I

don't know if it relates to beat poetry; it might be too fast.

Charles Plymell

---------------------

Forwarded message:

From:   mike@infinet.com (Michael L. Buchenroth)

Reply-to:       mike@infinet.com

To:     CVEditions@aol.com

Date: 97-07-10 08:43:41 EDT

 

CVEditions@aol.com wrote:

>=20

> PS: What does glom mean?

 

Wow! That's a real good question. I could only find the following

contexts to try to get a meaning...

As near as I can figure, I think, this personal example might represent

what they mean by glom...

 

At Ross I can not get the Cornix Java Scripts to run. I can only get

them to run here at home. At work I have to have all necessary files in

a subdirectory along with the cornix file and run the cornix file with

my browser (I use Netscape) right off my hard drive rather than the

internet... I guess glom might be synomous with "works." I'm not being

sarcastic, just attempting, as you, to figure out what they use 'glom'

to mean!

 

Perhaps glomming will allow AOL web users to run the scripts, "In the

new AOL glom version, all other text fields or views within the AOL

interface are accessable to the Vortex. This includes the AOL email

reader. As well as news and other displays which are local to AOL and

not accessed via the internet."

 

Note: Vortex, NG (Next Generation) will have the ability to glom your

browser the same way that we are today glomming email readers in our

current versions. Anyone accepted for the beta test version of the

Cornix applet has already had their name added to the beta test group

for Vortex NG.

Letters of notification will be sent out soon.=20

 

***

 

The unique Vortex display is currently being altered to provide glomming

support to Lotus ccMail. Preliminary tests are underway with an

expectation that this new version will be available by the 29th of July,

1997.=20

 

Vortex now can glom AOL 3.0! Read your AOL email and news with Vortex!

Please note that Vortex support for the AOL interface is limited to

version 3.0 of their program and does not support their internet

browser. As is done in the currently shipping versions, you must save

web pages to disk in order to open and read them in Vortex. In the new

AOL glom version, all other text fields or views within the AOL

interface are accessable to the Vortex. This includes the

AOL email reader. As well as news and other displays which are local to

AOL and not accessed via the internet.

 

***

Here's another contet: (I especially like this line, "...glom onto it

like some space alien software, and suck out the contents of the message

to be read."

***

 

Glomming Eudora! with Vortex=99=20

 

Quick Reference

To glom your Vortex reading tool onto Eudora for reading your email,

please follow the steps below.

 

1 - Start Vortex.=20

a - When Vortex is up and running, click on the =91Attach=92 menu item. T=

his

menu item will then change to =91Detach=92 to indicate readiness and to

allow you to go back to regular file mode.=20

b - Minimize Vortex.=20

 

2 - Start Eudora.=20

a - Using Eudora normally, retrieve your email for reading.=20

b - Choose an email to read. When it comes into its regular Eudora

window, you can either progress to

step 3 or to 2- c.=20

c - For long emails, you can locate the section that you wish to read,

and highlight it. Then proceed to step 3.=20

 

3 - Maximize Vortex.=20

It is the act of maximizing Vortex that is the trigger to hunt for

Eudora, glom onto it like some space alien software, and suck out the

contents of the message to be read.=20

 

4 - Return to Eudora.=20

When Vortex has finished the display of the email message, it will

return to a minimized state unless in stopped mode.=20

 

Internet browser support

Our plans for glomming and control ability for internet browsers are on

track and still to schedule. We expect that a release of the new Vortex

Win32 version featuring internet browser glom and remote control will

hip on schedule in early August.=20

 

This version will work only with Windows 95 and Windows NT.

 

***

I looked 'glom' up in Princeton's WordNet. I get only verb with this one

sense:

Sense 1

steal, hook, snitch, thieve, cop, knock off, glom, take illegally --

(take by theft)

=3D> take -- (take by force; "Hitler took the Baltic Republics"; "The arm=

y

took the fort on the hill")

***

 

I hoped to get a word that related to Cornix's web pages... The army

glommed the fort on the hill???? Certainly new to me!!!

 

***

I just got this beta version of an interface to the WordNet database. It

searches words that ryhme with nother word and at same time within a

specifed semantical context or whatever. =20

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dougb/rhyme.html

WordNet is at http://www.cogsci.princeton.edu/~wn/

I use WordNet frequently! I have used its "grep" search which is an old

Unix command for searching out "all" occurances of character

combinations within a database. WordNet contains the largest English

Lexicon electronic database I have yet found out there! So when wordNet

grep searches for some letters, it searches the English language!

Consequently, it can consume some serious time if the letters occur

commonly. For example, a search of all occurances of the characters red,

WordNet would take a while, but would display every occurance,

hyphenated included... I used it to find rhymes. Now these folks are

writing interfaces to do this, but defined or with semantical

boundaries. What could Poe have written with such tools?

***

I sure don't intend to preach or teach, just share stuff I've found on

web useful... If Charles hadn't written to me about the Cornix site, I

would not have found it. It really interests me. As I wrote earlier, I

have used machines (file stripe projectors modified) that did same thing

but projected on screen. I have researched subliminal projection, even

talked to Dr Becker several times on phone and corresponded by letters,

and he and Vicary patented the original subliminal projection device!

This type of stuff 100% interests me. I have a huge huge collection of

photocopies of research on subliminal perception and effect. Dr. Wilson

B Key told me once after a lecture in Michigan, I had the largest such

bibliography he'd ever heard about. He had invited me to that lecture at

Albion College in 1980. I was extremely grateful Charles and Michael

shared this cornix site with me!!!!=20

-Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:56:48 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: ATTN: BEAT-LIST POETS

 

In a message dated 97-07-10 09:36:04 EDT, you write:

 

<< by the way, mr buchenroth, after all these years your little web site

 > with the exploding text has added something to my reading. kool! ouch,

 > my mind it keeps expanding.

 > p >>

It might end up with Lord Buckley, that old wig stretcher himself.

Charley

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 01:19:22 UT

Reply-To:     Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Course

 

I would be very very interested in this... please keep me posted!!

 

ciao,

sherri

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Pamela Beach Plymell

Sent:   Thursday, July 10, 1997 5:32 PM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Course

 

Yeah, good idea. He wants me to do anything I think up.

Charley

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 01:28:26 UT

Reply-To:     Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: ATTN: BEAT-LIST POETS

 

His Lordship!!!!!  yasss, yasss dig that cat, man

for those of you interested:

 

http://www.industrialhaiku.com/Lord_Buckley_Online.html

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Pamela Beach Plymell

Sent:   Thursday, July 10, 1997 5:56 PM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Re: ATTN: BEAT-LIST POETS

 

In a message dated 97-07-10 09:36:04 EDT, you write:

 

<< by the way, mr buchenroth, after all these years your little web site

 > with the exploding text has added something to my reading. kool! ouch,

 > my mind it keeps expanding.

 > p >>

It might end up with Lord Buckley, that old wig stretcher himself.

Charley

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:56:01 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: asterisks

 

It may have been that the metaphor with the "fucked over' connotation came in

spontanieous hipster language; then the "sex  act" meaning came so something

had to be done. While fuck got past the censors  literal motherfucking would

have caused publishers to back off. Better to follow the bouncing asterisks

and Allen could have all the connotations. He made tradeoffs. Literary

gamesmanship for censorship. What fun we have with this.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:20:38 -0700

Reply-To:     Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Cody: the tape

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Finally made it to the end of the taped section, am beginning Imitation

of the Tape section.  These are the things I found most interesting in

the very slow going taped part.

 

pg. 170-173  When they are reading a letter from Cody's father, three

pages of speculation about the words he has trouble spelling combined

with a few of Codys memories, like "We went fouteen thousand miles

according to what he tells me..."

 

Pg. 182

Jack bragging like he needs to fit in, after all of Cody's stories,

"--because all I thought about then was eating and fucking, see, as I

should, as all men should all the time."

 

Pg. 187

Jack's description of quitting sports for writing: "One afternoon it

started to snow, Beethoven came on, it was time for me to go to

scrimmage...I said to myself, 'Scrimmage my ass...I'm gonna sit here in

this room and dig Beethoven, I'm gonna write noble words,' you

know'--that's the way I quit football (laughing) nothing more logical or

less...logical"

 

pg. 189-190

Jack's discussion with Bull about dying: "'Bull,', I'm saying, 'Jesus

Christ, people die don't they, I mean, what happens when you die? What

happens after you're dead? what goes on?' Bull says, 'Well, when you die,

you're dead, that's all'..."

 

Pg. 207

Cody's memory of his father: "Well, I can't remember much, it seems to me

we'd sit and talk on the bus, I was embarrassed by his stupidity and that

people could dig, you know, and perhaps by his appearance, and I remember

it was very cold and everything was awful because one of the buses broke

down--

 

Pg. 215

Cody's philosopher/poet discussion

"...I said 'Well Val, course I think the most important men in the world,

the most important thing in the world of course and the thing that really

counts of course is philosophy,' and he said, 'Oh, why no it's, ah, to me

I should think that the...poet is much more important than the

philosopher.' I said 'What?' and I was so stupefied and astounded and

nullified and disturbed that anyone could honestly believe that, that I,

well I--you know, I really was, ah, upset about it..."

 

Then at the end of his thought process, Cody says, "...suddenly I

realized that the philosopher was not--that the poet was more important

than the philosopher, you see--"

 

Pg. 216

Cody says, "...well I did of course live in a very strange frantic

world..."

 

Pg 218-219

When Cody discusses his own experience with writing (in contrast to Jack,

who is writing): "I said to myself 'At last I'm going to begin my

novel,'--been thinkin about it for a year or two, not thinking about it

at all completely, I just knew I'd be doing it, it never occurred to me I

couldn't write.  So I sat down, I said, ah, 'Cody Pomeray was born on

February eighth, ah, 'twenty-six, ah, well?...'couldn't get past

that--and from that day until fours years later I never wrote another

word, 'cause I realized I couldn't--it never occurred to me the problems

of the writer, or problems of anything, I just--it never, it was

completely blind, I'd have never imagined, I'd never--can't believe that

I was so naive..."

 

Pgs. 233-236

The speculation about the murder of Bull's wife, combined with their

theorizing about when death happens is, I think, the best part of the

whole tape.  Questioning about what Bull thinks when he hears the William

Tell Overture, whether Bull or June herself put the apple on her head,

whether it was that he killed her trying to shoot the apple off, and then

lied about it being an accident when his gun unintentially went off.

 

This blends with other thoughts of 'sudden death,' including Finistra

(whoever he is) who tried to commit suicide several times and never died,

and it was then really a joke on him, so to speak, because he then died

accidentally.  And talking about Irwin (Ginsberg):

 

Jack:  And Irwin, nothing'll happen to him either

Cody: No, he's afraid and calculating--

Evelyn: He's cautious

 

(By the way, who is Evelyn supposed to represent?)

 

And last of all, Cody's own thoughts on being normal (after being put on

probation):

 

Cody: ...I was just normal young kid going around you know

Evelyn: Normal!

Cody: Well, I mean, you know, normal-seeming. I'd go to work, and go

home, go and try to get a girl or somethin, only thing was, these

cars..."

 

 

Neat the end of the taped section, the reading got a little easier,

seemed more like two guys sitting around talking about the stuff they'd

done, very reminscent of OTR.  There is a lot of garbage thrown in, still

makes one wonder if the every moment/word is eternal really plays itself

out.

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 03:11:33 UT

Reply-To:     Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: asterisks

 

of all the explanations, this one strikes me as THE ONE

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Pamela Beach Plymell

Sent:   Thursday, July 10, 1997 7:56 PM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Re: asterisks

 

It may have been that the metaphor with the "fucked over' connotation came in

spontanieous hipster language; then the "sex  act" meaning came so something

had to be done. While fuck got past the censors  literal motherfucking would

have caused publishers to back off. Better to follow the bouncing asterisks

and Allen could have all the connotations. He made tradeoffs. Literary

gamesmanship for censorship. What fun we have with this.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:31:03 -0700

Reply-To:     "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Cody: the tape

Comments: To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

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>Pgs. 233-236

>The speculation about the murder of Bull's wife, combined with their

>theorizing about when death happens is, I think, the best part of the

>whole tape.  Questioning about what Bull thinks when he hears the William

>Tell Overture, whether Bull or June herself put the apple on her head,

>whether it was that he killed her trying to shoot the apple off, and then

>lied about it being an accident when his gun unintentially went off.

>

>This blends with other thoughts of 'sudden death,' including Finistra

>(whoever he is) who tried to commit suicide several times and never died,

>and it was then really a joke on him, so to speak, because he then died

>accidentally.

 

This staement of yours, "who is finnestra" indicates to me that the book can

stand on its' own.

 

Not knowing who finstra was you still floowed it very well and made these

great observations we are enjoying reading.

 

Finestra was Bill Cannestra, a friend of "the gang"  He lived in a loft they

partied at a lot.  Apparently he was a pretty wild and crazy guy.  He got

himself killed trying to climb out of the window of a subway car and halfway

out the train came to a tunnel and he was smashed to death.

 

Of note is that Finestra/Canastra's girlfriend was Joan Haverty, Kerouac's

furure second wife and mother of Jan Kerouac.  She was living in the loft

after he died.  It was her and that loft that is mentioned at the end of On

The Road where she calls down to Paradise.

 

Evelyn of course is Cody's wife, carolyn Cassady.  If you mean who is she

supposed to represent mythicly or whatver, I don't know.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 02:39:53 -0700

Reply-To:     mike@infinet.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael L. Buchenroth" <mike@INFINET.COM>

Organization: Buchenroth Publishing Company

Subject:      sojourner beat

Comments: To: CVEditions@AOL.COM

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Charles Plymell wrote:

 

THE HIDDEN EQUINOX

 

A hothouse of idiots makes

liquid skin flash next to me

while a voice from France calls

"buy me a bicycle and cut my skin"

billboards on that third fall day

saw a keen equinox frigid and delightful

move through the cables of Brooklyn Bridge

where someone carved a heart to Crane.

 

That changed the seasons and the veins

which brought desire in me to change.

(Like a translation from an esoteric script.)

 

 

I wanted a 10 cent custard

 

 

I felt bold walking down Delancey

with the Brooklyn yellow pages

under my arm looking for a number

that wouldn't help me anyway.

 

I strayed beyond the season's shear

walked up to the vendor standing there

shook his vegetables and the cart

beside the wrought iron park

while he listened to Caruso's voice

shaking the brick streets

like the big truck fleets.

 

***

 

Charles,

I find your poem, THE HIDDEN EQUINOX, taken from Charles Plymell's

"Robbing The Pillars ~ For Generation X in the Age of Apostasy," which I

have copied and pasted into this post, purely enchanting, harnessingly

raw BEAT, poetry! I read this poem repeatedly as it so eloquently

speaks... I compare this poem to Frost's "The Road Not Taken."

http://www.columbia.edu/acis/bartleby/frost/60.html

 

gopher://gopher.vt.edu:10010/02/67/3 Crane: THE COLD PASSED RELUCTANTLY

FROM THE earth, and the retiring fogs revealed an army stretched out on

the hills, resting... "... Don't forgit about the socks and the shirts,

child; and I've put a cup of blackberry jam with yer bundle, because I

know yeh like it above all things. Good-by, Henry. Watch out, and be a

good boy ..."

 

Does Henry's blackberry jam seem similar to 10-cent custard?

Does "a voice from France" belong to Pam? Elizabeth? (because of

bicycle/cut) Both?

Does liquid skin refer to the Jones?

What number (looking for a number that wouldn't help me anyway) did you

seek?

 

The way the equinox moved through the bridge cables channels

physiological reaction via my spine, my intestines, up through my gut,

and onto into some distant limbic system synapse! --past Henry's

[frigid] Civil War fog, through veins "To where it bent in the

undergrowth;" there, where "TWO roads diverged in a yellow wood," in the

Brooklyn Yellow Page's mental image, mirrored, alive, change... God

Damn!

 

I consider your "THE HIDDEN EQUINOX" classic!

 

PS

Sense 2

classic -- (an artist who has created classic works)

=> artist, creative person -- (a person whose creative work shows

sensitivity and imagination)

--------------

-Michael L. Buchenroth

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 02:17:54 -0700

Reply-To:     runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Subject:      Re: sojourner beat

In-Reply-To:  <33C5FF69.9E0@buchenroth.com>

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At 2:39 AM -0700 7/11/97, Michael L. Buchenroth wrote:

 

> Charles Plymell wrote:

>

> THE HIDDEN EQUINOX

 

> move through the cables of Brooklyn Bridge

> where someone carved a heart to Crane.

>

 

> gopher://gopher.vt.edu:10010/02/67/3 Crane: THE COLD PASSED RELUCTANTLY

> FROM THE earth, and the retiring fogs revealed an army stretched out on

> the hills, resting... "... Don't forgit about the socks and the shirts,

> child; and I've put a cup of blackberry jam with yer bundle, because I

> know yeh like it above all things. Good-by, Henry. Watch out, and be a

> good boy ..."

 

am starving, raving tired here <<2:15am>>.

 

Terribly curious who this "Crane" person is.  Can't gopher and don't

recognize the above passage that Michael has so graciously posted <<thank

you, thank you and CP both!>>  I'm thinking this is Arthur Crane, a

painter/photographer related to the Steiglitz group.  Of course, I'm

starving, raving tired here.  Any further annotation most appreciated.

 

        crane = a species of bird

        crane = machine used to lift

        heart of crane ~= heart of Cain

 

cheers, Douglas  <<I saw the best desktops of my generation fail to rebuild...

 

http://www.electriciti.com/babu/                let the man come thru

stand up, and let the man come thru             let the man come thru

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:59:54 -0400

Reply-To:     Joe Buschini <joeb@SMPLANET.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Joe Buschini <joeb@SMPLANET.COM>

Subject:      Re: sojourner beat

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The gopher reference quotes Stephen Crane  (whose influence as a beat

progenitor might be worthy of discussion). The HIDDEN EQUINOX, however,

apparently alludes to Hart ("heart") Crane.

 

>Terribly curious who this "Crane" person is.  Can't gopher...

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 15:54:10 +0200

Reply-To:     Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      who is MemBabe?

Mime-Version: 1.0

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i wrote:

help

MemBabe@aol.com wrote:

>que pasa?

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:44:54 -0700

Reply-To:     runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Subject:      eye heart crane

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ok, pulled out one of my art history compendium books.  can't find the one

I'm looking for (must have tossed it).  Sew eye heart crane with my one

good eye:

 

        from pg 327 of "the shock of the new" by Robert Hughes:

 

<<

"[...] Their environment was not as message-laden as ours, but they were

not used to it, and so its vividness has not stalled.

        The true home of the quick message, after World War I, as New York

City.  It's shapes were already a subject for American artists by 1920.

For Joseph Stella, an Italian migrant painter --as, in the late twenties,

for the Ohio-born Hart Crane--the Brooklyn Bridge was the supreme image of

collective creativity, tying past and present into one epigram of social

coherence (plate 219).  It was the New World's answer to the Eiffel Tower;

or, as Stella put it, "the shrine containing all the efforts of the new

assertion of their powers; an opotheosis".

>>

 

--well, that passage mostly talks about Stella, but the Brooklyn Bridge

info is good.

 

cheers, Douglas  <<running>>

 

http://www.electriciti.com/babu/                let the man come thru

stand up, and let the man come thru             let the man come thru

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:37:09 -0400

Reply-To:     Ken Ostrander <kenster@MIT.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Ken Ostrander <kenster@MIT.EDU>

Subject:      Re: no reason!

Comments: To: Marioka7@AOL.COM

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>If anyone is interested in continuing to receive my posts or in staying in

>touch please let me know.  Otherwise i will no longer post anything that

>doesn't have the word "Ginsberg", "Burroughs", or "Kerouac" in it.  I'm sorry

>for the inconvenience I have caused by posting my own writing and not that of

>others.  i see what an effort and consumption of time it is for some people

>to click on the delete key.

>

>am unabashedly nasty sourpuss tonight, for no reason, and, yes, I'm taking it

>out on YOU,

>love,

>maya<<sick of apologizing>>: ) : ) : ) : ) (note the ironic smiley)

 

 

        oh maya, don't apologize.  you're not the only one; and besides, i

think that your posts are what this list is all about.  just let it happen.

i'm guessing that somebody got to you with some comment; but screw 'em i

say.  for every jerk that complains there are many silent folk like myself

that have no trouble with the delete button.  i've got no sympathy for such

whiny bastards when i get from one to two hundred e-mails a day (summer's

the slow time).  i will say that you have more time on your hands to scribe

than i seem to. and i sit in front of the computer all day!

 

no regrets!

 

KEN

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:27:03 -0400

Reply-To:     "Michael L. Buchenroth" <mike@INFINET.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael L. Buchenroth" <mike@INFINET.COM>

Subject:      Re: eye heart crane

Comments: To: runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

In-Reply-To:  <l03020900afec0416c35b@[198.5.212.52]>

MIME-Version: 1.0

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On Fri, 11 Jul 1997, runner711 wrot

 

> for the Ohio-born Hart Crane--the Brooklyn Bridge was the supreme image of

> collective creativity, tying past and present into one epigram of social

> coherence (plate 219).  It was the New World's answer to the Eiffel Tower;

> or, as Stella put it, "the shrine containing all the efforts of the new

> assertion of their powers; an opotheosis".

> >>

>

> --well, that passage mostly talks about Stella, but the Brooklyn Bridge

> info is good.

 

Interesting stuff. Until today, I didn't know about Hart Crane or these

Brooklyn Bridge references. Who is Stella? What in poem indicates this?

Why do the billboards see the keen equinox frigid and delightful?

Why the third fall day?

And I meant to ask this earlier, Is Delancey a street? And what would

this street, if so, contribute? And I know this question is most likely

gonna hurt later, but I searched Alta Vista for "caruso," but got so many

different hits, it left me confused--what does the vendor listen to if

the vendor listens to Caruso's voice? It must contain bass enough, or

significance enough to "shaek the brick streets."

 

To date, I have read this poem as change, the kind of change that only

goes one way, or that produces archetypal influences, like when Gatsby

first met and fell in love with Daisy...that event change produced an

outcome immeasurably different than had the event not occured as we all

know...

***

If so, what change(s) have occured? Why is the equinox both frigid and

cole similar to that little girl riding in that stage coach who was "awfully

good."

I'm confused, but confusion is good...

***

Help...

 

Michael L. Buchenroth

mike@buchenroth.com

www.buchenroth.com

To view

Columbus' Electronic Literary Magazine

go to

www.buchenroth.com/magazine.html

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 17:40:45 UT

Reply-To:     Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: no reason!

 

Ken - i'm with you... and i miss maya....

 

ciao,

sherri

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 19:42:50 +0200

Reply-To:     Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      beat poet jack kerouac on CD && mM

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Beatspotting at Melody Maker, june 28, 1997, at page #29,

i found this ''ad'' poem:

 

"

        MUTE COMMUNION

        Patrick Jones, Rev Press

 

        12:06:97

 

        I am critic

        I am corrupt

        I have blood of countless

        generations of artists on my h@nds

        I am not sotty

        the INK

        spills from my h@nds and causes

        tears to flow ceaselessly like a stern

        m@nic street preachers fan's mum

        read    read this       read this

        and you will find

        three seconds meaning in a book of

        non/sense

 

        your approval

        means nothing to me

        to me means nothing

        nothing means to me     would

        would           would           that I could

        extract any meaning

        i recently bought the collected

        works of famous beat poet jack

        kerouac on CD

        and even                that

        even            that,

        laughable as it seemed set to the

        jazzy textures of the blown sax

        was

        genius

        compared to this, this          the second

        anthology of work from Nicky

        Wire-endorsed Ninenties beat poet

        successor       EXCESSor        patrick

        jones

 

        INK drips from my pen onto

        sullen pages of white

        i fear for the youth's/         future

        you can purchase this TWO

        POUNDS from rev press,

        10 coronation rd blackwood NP2

        1EA/            wales

        i do not        not     NOT     recommend

        it/ it is

        b

        o

        l

        l

        o

        c

        k

        s

 

        E(vere)TT TRUE

 

"

 

---

yrs

Rinaldo.        * Da! Da! DaDa i love you! *

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 14:06:15 -0400

Reply-To:     "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Andy Warhol

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

 

>murder of demented stalker of lucien carr by same. forget his name.

andy

>wharhol was right/

 

was writ to the list.  That reminded me of an interesting thing that

happended two nights ago.  My mother had given to me a series of books

she purchased for me as a child.  They were called "Best in Children's

Books".   I sat down to read my girls the story of the Porridge pot that

would produce porridge when told to "boil pot boil" and would stop when

told "stop pot stop".   Anyway, I noticed that the drawings with the

story seemed to have a unique flair.  I looked to the credits and the

artist was Andy Warhol.  The copyright was 1959.  Just an interesting

little twist.

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 18:08:55 UT

Reply-To:     Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: eye heart crane

 

thanks for posting this, Michael.  poem has a lovely feel.

i'm probably totally off, but here's my puny & humble take ( i don't get the

bicycle/cut my skin thing though):

 

"...keen equinox frigid and delightful" -   third day after a sunny, sharp,

cold, but lovely fall equinox in NYC

 

".... Brooklyn Bridge" - thankfully Douglas has enlightened us on this one

 

"That changed... esoteric script" - the  feeling many of us have when the

seasons change, after the langorous days of summer a time perhaps to be

brisker...  like how translators of ancient spiritual texts often tighten up

the language and ideas and filter through their own interpretations (for

better or worse) for those for whom they are translating

 

"...10 cent custard..."  given the price, i'd say we're referring to a time

long ago, perhaps charles' halcyon days?

 

"I felt bold....help me anyway" - Delancey St. is a pretty well-known NYC

thoroughfare.  i confess i'm mystified by what it is he's looking for...

maybe an acquaintance who's last name & number he's lost?  that idea seems too

prosaic to me...  your notion of Frost may be more to the point (hhhmmm,

that's an interesting juxtaposition in the quotes above, wonder if it's

relevant to the meaning here?)

 

last stanza  - used to be alot of cart vendors in NYC.  sounds like he walked

out of the wind's range to this vendor, maybe bought some of his vegetables.

this guy's got the legendary tenor of all operatic tenors blasting from his

portable radio or something.  believe me, caruso's voice could shake the

streets like a truck and shake you down to the roots of your soul.

 

help, charles... fill in the blanks.  and please forgive me if the above is

idiotic.

 

ciao,

sherri

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 11:32:28 -0700

Reply-To:     "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>

Subject:      Re: eye heart crane (was: sojourner beat)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Michael writ:

 

>> Who is Stella? What in poem indicates this?

 

The quote from the Hughes book was mighty slim on Hart, so I included

Stella as well.   (Thanks to Joe Buschini for the name clarification).

You might do a search and see what happens, or even better checkout the

local library/bookstore.  _Gardner's_ gigantic World of Art is what I

was looking for this morning, but couldn't find.

 

>> Why do the billboards see the keen equinox frigid and delightful?

 

a cold winter day, walking stoically from one part of town to another,

seeing the light quote unquote?  Billboards and grafitti marking out a

personal space?

 

><<And I know this question is most likely

>gonna hurt later, but I searched Alta Vista for "caruso," but got so many

>different hits, it left me confused--what does the vendor listen to if

>the vendor listens to Caruso's voice? It must contain bass enough, or

significance enough to "shaek the brick streets.">>

 

The voice of one man, making his presence known.  Gregory Caruso, the

beat writer/poet?  The reverberating voice conclusion ties in nicely

with the "liquid skin flash", bicycle cut skin, moving cables of the

brooklyn bridge, and the walk down Delancey.  A path taken by foot, not

car or bus, apparently.  Different kinds of 'movement' through various

'territories'.

 

Shocks and realizations reaching a far destination.  <<france>>  CP

thinking of phone call from Caruso, speaking in Caruso's voice to the

>vendor.  An adoption, translation, an esoteric skin??

>

><<To date, I have read this poem as change, the kind of change that only

>goes one way, or that produces archetypal influences, like when Gatsby

>first met and fell in love with Daisy...that event change produced an

>outcome immeasurably different than had the event not occured as we all

know...>>

 

yes, and in the movie with Mia Farrow and Robert Redford, don't forget

the scenes with the optometrist's billboards.  the one with the gigantic

pictogram eye, that seems to loom over, look at everything.  <<god?>>

>

>> I'm confused, but confusion is good...

>> ***

>> Help...

 

yep.  been down that road recently myself.  It's been raining sandstorms

in my neck of the woods.  Personally, I'm wondering what Caruso's voice

is saying?  "go the distance" ??

 

and Sherri, have just received your post, :: the phonebook is "yellow"

so I suspect ol' CP was looking for a bike to mail to france.  some

biking accident?  and sneaking back to Michael's interpretation, CP

realized it wasn't going to do him any good anyway.  The changing of

seasons being a nice metaphor for a personal journey.  <<perhaps>>??

 

>> Michael L. Buchenroth

> Sherri

 

>cheers, Douglas

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:22:07 -0700

Reply-To:     "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>

Subject:      Re: sojourner beat

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

<<more thoughts while getting my lunch>>

 

sorry to pounce on this.  one more post on CP's poem "the hidden

equinox" and then I'm out.

 

Don't know the context of its publishing "for gen x".  but::

 

Caruso's voice from france = a bridge to art, with the force of a truck,

able to make the streets rumble with his fallings/failures

 

equinox = september 23 = equal lenghts = twice a year = friendship?

 

walking & biking = methods of transversing life and only the "hothouse

of idiots' and their "liquid skins" (billboards) don't understand that

it's not the method that's important, but the distance travelled (and

sights seen along the way: grafitti).

 

life = 10c custard

 

<<Man I'm hungry>> Douglas

 

 

"the map is not the territory"                  babu@electriciti.com

  (Alfred Korzybski)                    www.electriciti.com/babu/

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 14:47:43 -0700

Reply-To:     "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>

Subject:      FW: eye heart crane (was: sojourner beat)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

via backchannel, Sherri (thank you very much!!) states <ahem>, that:

>

><<the beat poet is gregroy corso... caruso is enrico caruso, considered to be

>the greatest operatic tenor of all time by most people.>>

 

ah!  I therefore retract all I said, pulling up all stakes.  I'm keeping

the burrito I had for lunch though!  <<yum>>

 

Charles Plymell, where are you you you you you [[SD calling...

 

> ciao, sherri [[hope you don't mind me posting this??

 

>Douglas

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 19:19:16 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: sojourner beat

Comments: To: mike@infinet.com

 

Thanks for catching that poem. It wasn't in Forever Wider and I had forgotten

all about it. It's fun to look at my own work fresh. I think it would be a

flashy poem. I'm learning from your poems you sent me.  It takes me a while

to study them.

Charley

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 19:51:11 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: jo grant/nicosia

 

I second the motion.

Charley

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 20:05:24 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: sojourner beat

 

Thank you joe for being literate.  Hart Crane was the poets' poet.  Even

Ginsy's.

Charley

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 12 Jul 1997 00:25:36 UT

Reply-To:     Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: eye heart crane (was: sojourner beat)

 

don't mind you posting that at all, i meant it for beat-l, forgot to change

where to respond  <grins>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 19:42:08 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: eye heart crane (was: sojourner beat)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Gentleman,

 

The whole world is not yet available through the major search engines.

 

Libraries are still helpful.

 

Hart Crane, very important early 20th century Am poetry, look him up

 

Frank Stella, equally important ab ex painter.

 

Enrico Caruso, The ultimate tenor, on all the better jukeboxes in lthe

great italian neighborhoods that became Bohemia's, be they the Village

in NY or North Beach in SF.

 

J Stauffer

 

Penn, Douglas, K wrote:

>

> Michael writ:

>

> >> Who is Stella? What in poem indicates this?

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:36:20 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Fwd: eye heart crane

 

---------------------

Forwarded message:

Subj:    Re: eye heart crane

Date:    97-07-11 23:36:13 EDT

From:    CVEditions

To:      love_singing@msn.com

 

In a message dated 97-07-11 23:06:02 EDT, you write:

 

<<  your notion of Frost may be more to the point >>

 

Fuck Frost that old fool, just because I have a beard and and on site under a

craggy tree, i don't wanna be no Frost industry!

 

He got a few lines going. Had to go to England to get ol crazy Pound to

publish him. he was to far out for the academe. Can you imagine that? He

began on the S.F. beach where I wrote REBA. He had a consession. Then moved

to Vermont. Built a fence or something. Read at Camelot's inaguration. Then

all the little cillen started writing frostpomes. Please don't associate me

with him. Exect for a prize of somekind. Oh why you make it hard for me?

Old Joe Turner sang "Please Mr, Johnson/don't play the blues so sad"

Charles Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:55:03 -0500

Reply-To:     RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Fwd: eye heart crane

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Two roads

diverged

in a narrow wood

i looked down one as far

as my eye could see

i looked down the other as far

as my eye could see

i looked back to the first

then back at the second

i stood

silent

frozen

in indecision

hours passed

my mentor's words

"choice is tragic"

sounded in my brain

i looked to the first

i looked to the second

Fuck It

i screamed

turned

and sauntered back home

and took a

cold

shower!

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

 

 

 

Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:

>

> ---------------------

> Forwarded message:

> Subj:    Re: eye heart crane

> Date:    97-07-11 23:36:13 EDT

> From:    CVEditions

> To:      love_singing@msn.com

>

> In a message dated 97-07-11 23:06:02 EDT, you write:

>

> <<  your notion of Frost may be more to the point >>

>

> Fuck Frost that old fool, just because I have a beard and and on site under a

> craggy tree, i don't wanna be no Frost industry!

>

> He got a few lines going. Had to go to England to get ol crazy Pound to

> publish him. he was to far out for the academe. Can you imagine that? He

> began on the S.F. beach where I wrote REBA. He had a consession. Then moved

> to Vermont. Built a fence or something. Read at Camelot's inaguration. Then

> all the little cillen started writing frostpomes. Please don't associate me

> with him. Exect for a prize of somekind. Oh why you make it hard for me?

> Old Joe Turner sang "Please Mr, Johnson/don't play the blues so sad"

> Charles Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 12 Jul 1997 03:59:02 UT

Reply-To:     Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: eye heart crane

 

i'm sorry, i just thought it was a helluva alot better notion than my stupid

one  <grins>  it was Michael's idea!!! <whining>

 

<poor girl freaks, hides her face in her hands>

 

was the rest of what i said totally off too?

 

i really want to lay my hands on some of your books, is there no place you can

suggest in the Bay Area?

 

humbly and sheepishly hoping you'll forget my faux pas.

 

ciao,

sherri

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 21:27:48 -0700

Reply-To:     runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Subject:      "buy me a bicycle and cut my skin"

Comments: To: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Charles Plymell [[and beat-list:

 

You sir, have made my day.  been thinking about that poem of yours recently

posted to the beat-list, "the hidden equinox."  just now (*:$$() figured

out, at least another focal point, this line

 

        "buy me a bicycle and cut my skin"

 

and how it relates to the sound of corso... caruso

pumping out a radio down on Chauncey street

how walking across this bridge, girders bouncing

<<beaming>> progress and identity - death

life unescorted, headed for the straight life

breaking beams:: sharks sir, sharks

 

sir, sharks are attracted to blood

they come upon you fast, making lots of turns

and twists, and tumbles as the water pulls you down

 

<<hm>> breathe -- I'm asking you

"buy me a bicycle and cut my skin"

 

calling to ask you in

to hear your voice

to come home a little

.... quicker

the sound of your unborn child

bouncing and quivering -- mother

 

How much faster can that sound come

oh, the violent twitch that propels it

the crackles and spits of a torrent wind

<<twisting, tumbling, pulling you down>>

 

<<hm>> breathe -- I'm asking you

"buy me a skin and cut my bicycle"

"bicycle skin and buy me a cut"

"me skin cut buy bicycle and my"

 

 

--==+ so thanx Charley Plymell

http://www.electriciti.com/babu/images/Hidden_equinox.html

 

Douglas

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 21:28:06 -0700

Reply-To:     runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Subject:      Re: eye heart crane (was: sojourner beat)

In-Reply-To:  <33C6EEFF.62C4@pacbell.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 7:42 PM -0700 7/11/97, James Stauffer wrote:

 

> Gentlema[e]n,

>

> The whole world is not yet available through the major search engines.

 

ah, not yet....

but I hear it...

what's your number?

mine's runner711

I'm running <<yet>>

be patient, don't worry

--you'll hear it

.... rumbling

by the year 2010??

 

 

> Libraries are still helpful.

 

yep.  friends are better.

can you dig it, brother?

deep brother, James?

 

 

 

 

 

 

        [["buy me a bicycle and cut my skin"  --who said this??

 

 

 

 

 

 

Douglas  [[I think it was god....?

 

 

 

<<laugh>>>>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 12 Jul 1997 00:31:16 -0400

Reply-To:     SSASN@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: CODY: what murder?

 

Diane:

 

By now you have learned from other posts that the murder referred to in the

taped conversation was none other than one of the most infamous incidents in

the whole Beat mythology- WSB's accidental killing of his wife Joan in a

drunken "William Tell" incident, excrutiatingly recounted in many books, as

well as in the BURROUGHS documentary and even (repeatedly) in David

Cronenberg's film version of NAKED LUNCH ( a noble failure, I respect him for

trying).  The doomed WSB, Jr. was present, age 4, among many other details

that make this one of the most appalling/fascinating occurrences in the

collective Beat saga.  The most poignant recounting of and reflection on this

that I can think of now is by WSB himself, in his introduction to QUEER.

 

All I can add at this time is, first, the observation that "....in between

June and August....the murder took place" is wrong, it happened on September

6, 1951.  But the fact that other Beat legends (Cassady and Kerouac) are

speculating like this, less accurately than us current scholars from the

distance of decades and a mountain of sources, is itself very interesting and

significant.  This is how it really was, how history is really made before it

is "history" in the discord and immediacy of the moment.  How do I put it-

there is both a demystification of a well-established and documented legend,

and a message that our own  relatively anonymous cosmic huddles have the same

legendary qualities that we project by popular consensus onto this now-famous

group.  There's more to this I can't quite get at, it's late and enough for

now.

 

Secondly, I recall from my visit with WSB in early 1995 that gun magazines

and boxes of ammunition were scattered in his home.  A gentleman who we

visited earlier the same day was his favorite shooting partner, with whom he

was going to shoot the next day.  I even have a set of 3 t-shirts personally

shot at and signed by him.  Many of his artworks that he has been producing

over the last decade or so are the result of shooting paint &or bullets at

boards, doors, etc.  Shooting, whether guns or junk, is a constant through

his life and work.  How can he shoot at targets and not think of the tragedy?

 Read the QUEER introduction and try to tell me he isn't sensitive to its

significance. I think I know why the shooting continues- He was both freed

and "grounded" (as Ginsberg put it) by what happened, he had nothing to lose

and became the brave pioneer I revere and enjoy and have learned so much

from, he had "no choice except to write my way out" and has been doing so

ever since, it was the Big Bang, indeed.

 

Regards,

 

Arthur

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:14:02 -0700

Reply-To:     runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Subject:      Re: eye heart crane

In-Reply-To:  <UPMAIL14.199707120413100511@msn.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 8:59 PM -0700 7/11/97, Sherri wrote:

 

> i really want to lay my hands on some of your books, is there no place

>you can

> suggest in the Bay Area?

 

Sherri, lesson #1: don't ask the man, go find it your f'in self!

 

Surely this is beat methodology?  Just get in your f'in car and go!  Or

take the BART.  God, I miss San Francisco.  Where is it?  --right next to

china town and the condor strip club??  and there's a bar right next door.

get loaded and head up to the church just above the park.  smoke one for me

and f'in yell as much of "howl" as you possibly can.  da tourists will

meander over, and when they do, take out your hat, or your cup, and kindly

inform them that they just had the pleasuring of hearing some eternal

<<Allen Ginsberg>>.  Would they care to make a small donation??  and even

though you're standing on the steps of the church, I don't think God or

Jesus will mind.  geez.

 

yeah, so go to City Lights.  Or over to Berkeley and the used shops along

Telegraph street.  and check out the housing coops on the UCSB campus while

you're there.  Tell em DIY sent ya.

 

 

> ciao,

> sherri

 

DIY Douglas  :-)))))))hungry!

 

 

http://www.electriciti.com/babu/                let the man come thru

stand up, and let the man come thru             let the man come thru

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 13 Jul 1997 01:17:12 -0400

Reply-To:     "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Visions of Cody

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

I have been searching for an answer to my question about what Jack saw

in Neal and why he made him a hero.  Tonight, I went to Memory Babe and

found the following which appears to be from the Gregory McDonald:

 

Page 689:

 

He (JK) talked so long and lovingly of Gerard that McDonald was moved to

inquire whether Jack had any satisfying relationships with living

people.  He had none to speak of.  Finally McDonald asked, "Jack have

you ever felt one-on-one with anybody?"  Without a second's thought,

Jack answered, "Yeah, Cassady," and began to talk of Neal as he had

talked about Gerard, describing their trips together but concentrating

on Neal's eyes and the rare communication that had passed between them

and his own.  At the same time he kept apologizind for his obsession

with Neal, as though their relationship also deeply frightened him.  Yet

he didn't want Neal to be dead; he spoke of his belief that Neal might

be alive, but also talked of meeting him in the afterlife."

 

 

If we assume that Nicosia's comments are accurate, then we can see a

picture developing that explains why Neal is the hero.  He is Jack's

"brother" in the sense that they connected on the deepest of levels

where we do not use words.  This would explain the tapes as well.

 

Just a thought.

 

Peace,

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 12 Jul 1997 05:29:57 UT

Reply-To:     Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: eye heart crane

 

did City Lights, even tho da man already tole me they ain't  publishin it no

more, just in case... checked out the used books section, too.

 

most beat stuff is hard to come by in used book stores round here cuz it's

either not there cuz folks don't wanna part wid it or cuz it gets snatched up

PDQ.  next thing is da library... haven't had a chance to do dat yet, man.

tomorrow checkin at da great used bookstore a blcok from my apt.  maybe i'll

get lucky, but only thing so far i've come up wid is nicoia's MemoryBabe.

 

ciao,

sherri

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of runner711

Sent:   Friday, July 11, 1997 10:14 PM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Re: eye heart crane

 

At 8:59 PM -0700 7/11/97, Sherri wrote:

 

> i really want to lay my hands on some of your books, is there no place

>you can

> suggest in the Bay Area?

 

Sherri, lesson #1: don't ask the man, go find it your f'in self!

 

Surely this is beat methodology?  Just get in your f'in car and go!  Or

take the BART.  God, I miss San Francisco.  Where is it?  --right next to

china town and the condor strip club??  and there's a bar right next door.

get loaded and head up to the church just above the park.  smoke one for me

and f'in yell as much of "howl" as you possibly can.  da tourists will

meander over, and when they do, take out your hat, or your cup, and kindly

inform them that they just had the pleasuring of hearing some eternal

<<Allen Ginsberg>>.  Would they care to make a small donation??  and even

though you're standing on the steps of the church, I don't think God or

Jesus will mind.  geez.

 

yeah, so go to City Lights.  Or over to Berkeley and the used shops along

Telegraph street.  and check out the housing coops on the UCSB campus while

you're there.  Tell em DIY sent ya.

 

 

> ciao,

> sherri

 

DIY Douglas  :-)))))))hungry!

 

 

http://www.electriciti.com/babu/                let the man come thru

stand up, and let the man come thru             let the man come thru

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:43:50 -0700

Reply-To:     runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Subject:      Re: eye heart crane

In-Reply-To:  <UPMAIL14.199707120535260495@msn.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 10:29 PM -0700 7/11/97, Sherri wrote:

 

> maybe i'll

> get lucky, but only thing so far i've come up wid is nicoia's MemoryBabe.

 

gee, if you can't find it online <<hm>> maybe you could look in the

archives everyone on this list is talking about?  <<hm....

 

> ciao,

> sherri

 

Douglas  <<getting off now>>

 

http://www.electriciti.com/babu/                let the man come thru

stand up, and let the man come thru             let the man come thru

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:17:12 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Cody Notes and Queries

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Sloshing my way still through Part 2.

 

Find myself wondering whether the real Neal was really a good pool

player.  Doesn't seem the right type.  I have watched some great 9 ball

players.  Most are really idiot savants.  Great concentration and hand

and eye.  Good sense of just how good they need to play at a given time

to keep the fish on. Can't remember any that were talkers. travel with a

horse who gets the game up, carries money, and can sense how deep the

pockets are.  Neal strikes me as maybe a decent bar eightball player on

a table where shots don't have to be called.  Lot's of serendipitous

slop shots and a good patter.    Don't trust Jack as a reliable witness

on this as he was clearly way too infatuated.    Ginsberg even less

credible.

 

Charley, Leon, and all you historians, help me out on this cunnumdrum.

 

J. Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 12 Jul 1997 01:08:06 -0500

Reply-To:     LISA VEDROS <2ndbeat@TELAPEX.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         LISA VEDROS <2ndbeat@TELAPEX.COM>

Subject:      Second Beat #3

Comments: To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU.

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

The Allen Ginsberg Memorial Issue of Second Beat is available for $1.00,

and is full of poetry and articles about the "Best Mind of Our Generation."

 

Send a buck to:

Camelia City Books

2034 Johnston Station Road

Summit, Ms 39666

 

Thanks,

Thadeus D'Angelo, Camelia City Books

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 12 Jul 1997 06:29:20 UT

Reply-To:     Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: eye heart crane

 

didn't say i couldn't find it online - i want to buy it here.  i don't buy

over the web, not secure enough...

 

ciao,

sherri

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of runner711

Sent:   Friday, July 11, 1997 10:43 PM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Re: eye heart crane

 

At 10:29 PM -0700 7/11/97, Sherri wrote:

 

> maybe i'll

> get lucky, but only thing so far i've come up wid is nicoia's MemoryBabe.

 

gee, if you can't find it online <<hm>> maybe you could look in the

archives everyone on this list is talking about?  <<hm....

 

> ciao,

> sherri

 

Douglas  <<getting off now>>

 

http://www.electriciti.com/babu/                let the man come thru

stand up, and let the man come thru             let the man come thru

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 12 Jul 1997 09:26:50 UT

Reply-To:     Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      cody thoughts

 

that thread bout NC being hero, antihero, not worthy hero, whatever, keeps

beatin around in my brain....

 

#1 - whatever one might say bout NC - he seems to me to have had a very big

lionheart.  hearts and spirits that big are generally a huge attraction to

like individuals, especially those of a romantic/idealistic bent, and bespeak

a certain nobility...  the heart to be true to oneself, no matter how wrong

one might be.  mythology/religion/history are full of heroes with

weaknesses.... let us not forget Achilles.

 

#2 - it seems to me thatNC, to some extent, can be likened to those famous

muses who inspired/modelled for great paintings or inspired great lit,

regardless of what they may or may not have achieved in their own rights.

sometimes the chemistry is the most important factor

 

#3 - seems to me that JK is parallelling Cody's gradual slip from greatness in

his own mind, as he began to be  more and more fully aware of the darker side

of NC, to that of America's slide from idyllic  dream....

 

additional thoughts:

 

a)  i wonder if this use of color should be tied to hindu/buddhist meanings

for colors...  i don't know the meanings for all of them, but those i do

remember seem fitting to JK's usage - can anyone help me out on this?

 

b)  part 2 - i'm surprised nobody picked up on what a hoot this is... again

like Ulysses...  bunch of ribald humor... like Bloom and the various women he

meets (eg., woman at fish market) .  does anyone know if this

vision/dream/recollection is all supposed to take place in one day like

Ulyssses?  i mean, is this "A Day in the Life Of" so to speak?  if so, then

the book is really bout JK and not NC.

 

c)  love this line  "These imaginings lead me backwards to my original

poipose"   and the "food example"  (pg 75 Penguin '93 edition) got a good te

hee when i came across them and they lead right into the whole Ruth/Ella

tits/legs thing...

 

Cody says "Have this picture, I've used it."

 

pg 76: "I even know this is infinitely more delicious than touching Ruth's

breast itself (though I'd do anything for the chance) - But more, more about

the breast itself - all my life i've dreamed on breasts ( and of course

thighs, but now we're talking of breasts, hold your Venus, we're talking about

Mars, and your water, we're talking about milk)..."  this, while hilarious (

to me at least), speaks volumes about his outlook on women and his feelings

towards his mother.  and all this leads straight into what appear to be

strings of events failed, desires unrequited.  always the promise but never

the dream come true.  the constant, futile chasing of the disappearing

American dream.

 

c)  i know that death was always an undercurrent to JK"s life due to Gerard's

death, but i wonder if it was more heavily on his mind due to his month in the

hospital, not long before writing this book... his own uncertainty about his

health, aware of his own mortality and the general depression that often

follows a long illness and being around so many others who are ill or dying.

 

well, enough from me...

 

ciao,

sherri

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 12 Jul 1997 06:57:51 -0400

Reply-To:     cosmicat@erols.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         cosmicat@EROLS.COM

Subject:      Beat-L T-shirt

Comments: cc: Waterrow@AOL.COM

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Jeffrey,

This needs saying:

I received my shirt yesterday along with a refund check and explanatory

letter. I agree that the shirt is not well-printed. Much could have been

done to improve the result, but this is what we get. No real problem.

However, I do have a problem with the refund check. First, it was

hastily scribbled. I realise that you probably had to write nearly a

hundred checks at once, but it is far from your best work. Seriously, it

displays the best of intentions, indeed it exemplifies fine qualities

and character attributes mostly absent in the 1990's, but it won't do.

I, for one, am unwilling to let you and WRB bear the brunt of the

expense of the Beat-L T-shirt venture alone. The gesture is much

appreciated but you are going to have to take back the check. If you

feel so strongly that we, the Beat-L, have been maligned, cheated,

rooked plenty, abused, etc. by the printers, you can send me another

shirt in exchange for YOUR check. (I think I just stepped into an event

loop with that line.) Mr.Weinberg, I have laid out far more for far less

many times in the past. Thank you for your efforts, the outcome is more

than satisfactory.

Your check is in the mail,

Michael Nally

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 12 Jul 1997 07:40:16 -0400

Reply-To:     Marioka7@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>

Subject:      sionara, babies

 

Dear Beetles,

 

It's been a long, winding, often very productive(for me) road, but my beetle

time has come to an end.  Lets just say that it no longer serves my purposes.

 so I am saying "ciao" until another lifetime, when perhaps the mood will

strike me again.

 

I especially appreciated the informative posts from people who really know

what they're talking about (you know who you are).  And also thanks to the

many creative people who posted their own work, it was often really good

(though sometimes everyone falters, this is normal).  I still feel privileged

to have met some of you and there are some I expect to see in print at the

bookstore in a few years.

 

Thanks Charles Plymell, you are a voice of reason among much voiced unreason.

 

Been nice knowin' yas.

 

take care,

---maya

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:09:02 -0700

Reply-To:     Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Fwd: eye heart crane

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:

>

> ---------------------

> Forwarded message:

> Subj:    Re: eye heart crane

> Date:    97-07-11 23:36:13 EDT

> From:    CVEditions

> To:      love_singing@msn.com

>

> In a message dated 97-07-11 23:06:02 EDT, you write:

>

>  Fuck Frost that old fool, just because I have a beard and and on site

> under a

> craggy tree, i don't wanna be no Frost industry!

>

 

You should thank God you didn't grow up in the state where Frost was not

only the state poet for a kazillion years, but where every Vermont poet

is measured against his style of writing.  I remember when I was in high

school I submitted my first poem to a state contest, I don't have a copy

anymore, but as I recall it was about the insanity of the Vietnam War.

The woman in charge of sending the poems gave it back to me with a

lecture about how politics had no place in poetry and couldn't I pen

something about stone walls in a pasture.  Kinda makes it clear how

choosing the beats as a model, particularly Ginsberg, can put you outside

the mainstream, and make you say, thank God, there is somebody else out

there with like-minded thoughts and writing.

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:57:01 -0700

Reply-To:     Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: eye heart crane

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

>Sherri wrote:

>

> i'm sorry, i just thought it was a helluva alot better notion than my

>stupid

> one  <grins>  it was Michael's idea!!! <whining>

>

> <poor girl freaks, hides her face in her hands>

>

> was the rest of what i said totally off too?

>

> i really want to lay my hands on some of your books, is there no place

> you can

> suggest in the Bay Area?

>

> humbly and sheepishly hoping you'll forget my faux pas.

>

> ciao,

> sherri

 

 

Sherri,

 

Particularly in poetry, there a place where over-analysis starts to

overide the impact of one's initial response emotionally to a poem.

That's the feeling I get with where you guys are going with this one.

 I don't suggest that you not continue to look for books of Charles'

poems, but in the meantime, check out his web site,

http://www.buchenroth.com/cplymell.html

There you will find much of his writing including a 148K file of the

poems in Robbin the Pillars for Generation X in the Age of Apostasy,

including the one you are discussing.

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 12 Jul 1997 00:21:11 -0700

Reply-To:     Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: CODY: what murder?

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Arthur Nusbaum wrote:

>

> But the fact that other Beat legends (Cassady and Kerouac) >are

> speculating like this, less accurately than us current scholars from

> the

> distance of decades and a mountain of sources, is itself very

> interesting and

> significant.

Arthur,

 

I shall have to find the intro to Queer, because I find this whole

situation incredible.  How could one's whole life not be totally affected

by such an incident?

 

And I think you may have given me insight into the importance of the tape

for the first time--"This is how it really was, how history is really

made before it is 'history' in the discord and immediancy of the

moment...There is both a demystification of a well-established and

documented legend, and a message that our own relatively anonymous cosmic

huddles have the same legendary qualities that we project by popular

concensus onto this now-famous group."

 

Somehow in all of this, the mind, memories, Cody's and Jack's thoughts

and speculations on actual situations alter the reality, and then

recording the actual moments of the memories, adds a new level of the

immediacy of the moment.  We as readers are already twice-removed from

the immediacy, and caught in our own orientation, from our particular

perspective on the history at this point.  From this angle, the tape

makes a lot of sense in a book where visions, moments out of time, are at

the center of the work.  I'm not sure I articulately have gotten at this

element either, but I have a sense of what you mean.

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:21:37 +0000

Reply-To:     randyr@southeast.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Comments:     Authenticated sender is <randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>

From:         randy royal <randyr@SOUTHEAST.NET>

Subject:      Re: unsubscribe/fyi

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

 

> Date:          Mon, 7 Jul 1997 10:17:49 -0400

> Reply-to:      Marioka7@AOL.COM

> From:          Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>

> Subject:       unsubscribe/fyi

> To:            BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

 

> i noticed many people seem to have forgotten:

> You may leave the list at any  time by sending a "SIGNOFF BEAT-L" command

> to  LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (or  LISTSERV@CUNYVM.BITNET).

>

> this is not a hint to anybody so please don't jump on me.  I just wanted to

> provide this info to those who are unsubscibing, so they don't find 10000

> messages and wonder what the hell happened.

> --maya

>

>

this is serious shit!! i leave for vacation and come back to 411

(that no. just keeps on popping up!)

messages during one week!! i wish i would've signed off! anyway,

thanx- i will remeber next time. cya~randy

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 12 Jul 1997 00:59:27 -0700

Reply-To:     Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Cody: Imitation of the Tape

MIME-Version: 1.0

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After having struggled with the tape a bit, I didn't have overly high

hopes going into this section, but for me, this is the best part of the

book thus far.  It starts out with an excellent, Americanized imitation

of the style of Joyce's interior monologue of Ulysses.  Then you have

imitations of Wolfe and Poe (I think) all exquisitely drawn together by

Jack's own recollections of Lowell, college, New York, etc, through

hurricanes and baseball leagues.  You have the words and places of great

American writers, all through together in stream of consciousness.

 

And this take on the sins of America and going to college is great--

pg. 259

 

"I read the Sunday comics one afternoon on a Riverside Drive parkbench;

it was pleasant, it was an early moment of mine in New York when reading

the funnies on a bench was synonymous, like an idea, with baby carriages

and maids and mothers.  I've since learned that they'll hide machine guns

in baby carriages--who put suspicion in--what was the name of that bum

who stole the housewife's steaming pie from her kitchen windersill? In

America, the idea of going to college is just like the idea of prosperity

is just around the corner, it was supposed to solve something or

everything or something because all you had to do was larn what they

taught and then everything else was going to be handled; instead of that,

and just like prosperity that was never around the corner but a couple of

miles at least (and false prosperity--) going to college by acquainting

me with all the mad elements of life, such as the sensibilities, books,

arts, histories of madness, and fashions, has not only made it impossibe

for me to learn simple tricks of how to earn a living but has deprived me

of my one-time innocent belief in my own thoughts that used to make me

handle my own destiny.  So now I sit and stew in a sophistication which

has taken hold of me just exactly like a disease and makes me lie around

like a bum all day long and stay up all night goofing with myself.  I had

thought, in and before college, that to be a writer was like being, of

course, the Emile Zola of the film they made about him with Paul Muni

shouting angrily in the streets at the dumb and stupid masses, as if he

knew everything and they didn't know a damn thing; instead of that I

wonder what working people think of me when they hear my typewriter

clacking in the middle of the night or what they think I'm up to when I

take walks at 2 a.m. in outlying surburban neighborhoods--the truth is I

haven't a single thing to wr--feel foolish...How I wish I could grow corn

tomorrow morning! How I wish I had enough patience to go and meet Farmer

Brown in two hours from now, 5 a.m., and go learn early morning farming

matters from him, and sober, too; and not high on tea, either.  Instead

of that I give myself tremendous headeaches and I am also less paid than

a Mexican in New Mexico, and at least the Mexican in New Mexico has the

right to get angry and to feel truly righteous in his heart, if I went

for righteousness at the face of God on what grounds could I make such a

claim?--where plant my stick?"

 

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:26:50 -0500

Reply-To:     "Ann J.M.S. Harlan" <annh@CCRTC.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Ann J.M.S. Harlan" <annh@CCRTC.COM>

Subject:      Re: please read this and vote

Comments: To: Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>, Stef <Ad_Libitum@msn.com>,

          HJW II <ArchibaldLeach@msn.com>, Stuart Crosby <BRAVES10@msn.com>,

          Ron Vassel <BlizzardKing@msn.com>,

          Michael Riddle <CENTERLINEDESIGN@msn.com>,

          Cari Who ELSE???? <CittiGirl@msn.com>, db <Dee-Bee@msn.com>,

          Homebrook <Homebrook@msn.com>, Jason Tinling <JTinlng@msn.com>,

          Joseph L <JoePlacebo@msn.com>, Kevin Mathers <KEVMATH@msn.com>,

          Kel Rayner <Manatbar@msn.com>,

          the little people <MarmaladeSkies@msn.com>,

          Kent <NoixDeGolf@msn.com>, Jim B <PBRUEGEL@msn.com>,

          Ask and I might tell you <Peaceful-Warrior2@msn.com>,

          R <ROcean@msn.com>, Blair <Reepoo@msn.com>,

          James Sims <SimbaJim@msn.com>, Sharon <SopAndBass@msn.com>,

          Tom Gummo <TGUMMO@msn.com>,

          Life is a sick joke and I'm the punchline <The_Boogey_Man@msn.com>,

          rico <UNIR1@msn.com>, Mark <Vox_Amicus@msn.com>,

          "e.e. cummings" <What-is_death@msn.com>,

          Tanya Ceccatto <_AngelBaby@msn.com>,

          _Prometheus1 <_Prometheus1@msn.com>, S Johnson <doc11@msn.com>,

          Drew Eskenazi <drewesk@msn.com>, Robert Lear <king_lear1@msn.com>,

          PAUL KOLJESKI <koljeski@msn.com>,

          Silver Surfer <mad-chatter@msn.com>, david simoni <oak123@msn.com>,

          Kash Philips <philkash@msn.com>,

          anthony osborne <rastafarian@msn.com>,

          Rico Mariani <ricom_ms@msn.com>, Robert Eback <rleback@msn.com>,

          Stephen Baldwin <sabaldwin@msn.com>,

          BigDaddyRico <Engelsguy@aol.com>, Don Green <NYCDBG@aol.com>,

          cj <sjohn111@aol.com>, Kent Smedley <Kent.Smedley@clorox.com>,

          THEBODYIS1@aol.com

Comments: cc: mychajlo@fast.net, J_DRUCK@prodigy.com,

          rrjwalz@integrityonline.com, davmark@mindspring.com,

          Warshie@prodigy.com, artworks@concentric.net, CHFriend@aol.com,

          joshperi@netvision.net.il, phibarn@scisun.sci.ccny.cuny.edu,

          szucker@isd.net, sranney@azstarnet.com, zin@juno.com,

          marketingedge@msn.com, cprubin@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il,

          jerry.rogoff@exar.com

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: multipart/alternative;

              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BC8EBE.DFA82380"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

 

------=_NextPart_000_01BC8EBE.DFA82380

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

hmmmmmmmmm, into censorship now?

1. I believe in freedom of speech

2. If they are plotting in the open, you can keep an eye on them ;-)

Ann J.M.S. Harlan

annh@ccrtc.com

 

----------

From: Sherri  <love_singing@msn.com>

To: Stef  <Ad_Libitum@msn.com>; HJW II  <ArchibaldLeach@msn.com>; Stuart

Crosby <BRAVES10@msn.com>; Ron Vassel <BlizzardKing@msn.com>; Michael

Riddle <CENTERLINEDESIGN@msn.com>; Cari Who ELSE???? <CittiGirl@msn.com>;

db  <Dee-Bee@msn.com>; Homebrook  <Homebrook@msn.com>; Jason Tinling

<JTinlng@msn.com>; Joseph L <JoePlacebo@msn.com>; Kevin Mathers

<KEVMATH@msn.com>; Kel Rayner <Manatbar@msn.com>; the little people

<MarmaladeSkies@msn.com>; Kent  <NoixDeGolf@msn.com>; Jim B

<PBRUEGEL@msn.com>; Ask and I might tell you <Peaceful-Warrior2@msn.com>; R

 <ROcean@msn.com>; Blair  <Reepoo@msn.com>; James Sims <SimbaJim@msn.com>;

Sharon  <SopAndBass@msn.com>; Tom Gummo <TGUMMO@msn.com>; Life is a sick

joke and I'm the punchline <The_Boogey_Man@msn.com>; rico  <UNIR1@msn.com>;

Mark  <Vox_Amicus@msn.com>; e.e. cummings <What-is_death@msn.com>; Tanya

Ceccatto <_AngelBaby@msn.com>; _Prometheus1  <_Prometheus1@msn.com>; S

Johnson <doc11@msn.com>; Drew Eskenazi <drewesk@msn.com>; Robert Lear

<king_lear1@msn.com>; x  <king_lear1@msn.com>; PAUL KOLJESKI

<koljeski@msn.com>; Silver Surfer <mad-chatter@msn.com>; david simoni

<oak123@msn.com>; Kash Philips  <philkash@msn.com>; anthony osborne

<rastafarian@msn.com>; Rico Mariani <ricom_ms@msn.com>; Robert Eback

<rleback@msn.com>; Stephen Baldwin <sabaldwin@msn.com>; anniepoo

<annh@ccrtc.com>; BigDaddyRico <Engelsguy@aol.com>; Don Green

<NYCDBG@aol.com>; cj <sjohn111@aol.com>; BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU; Kent

Smedley <Kent.Smedley@clorox.com>; THEBODYIS1@aol.com

Subject: FW: please read this and vote

Date: Monday, June 30, 1997 12:51 pm

 

This is important, please take the time.

Ciao, Sherri

 

----------

From:   Jamey Sims

Sent:   Monday, June 30, 1997 9:48 AM

To:     'sherry'; 'Dave'; 'jota'; 'Jacky'; 'Sherri'; 'Stella'; 'Jennifer';

'Ralph'; 'David Lang'; 'boyeeeeeee'; 'Suzie & Robert'; 'Gary'; 'The Lang

Gang'; 'Brandon Wescott'; 'kevey'; 'Dr Cowan'; 'Renee'; 'bogie'; 'Tammy';

'Shari & Troy'; 'Yvonne'

Subject:        FW: please read this and vote

 

do this please

--Jamey

 

----------

From:   Marrow

Sent:   Saturday, June 28, 1997 3:35 PM

To:     Jamey Sims

Subject:        please read this and vote

 

 

 

>From: Marrow <mychajlo@pop.fast.net>

>Subject: please read this and vote

>

>>From: J_DRUCK@prodigy.com (MR JEFFREY L DRUCKENMILLER)

>>Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 07:39:12, -0500

>>To: rrjwalz@integrityonline.com, mychajlo@fast.net

>>Subject: please read this and vote

>>

>>for your interest

>>

>>

>>

>><< Start of Forwarded message via Prodigy Mail >>

>>

>>From:  (Warshie) DIANNE WARSHAVER

>>Subject:       please read this and vote

>>Date:  06/20

>>Time:  07:28 PM

>>

>>so, we are never safe from crazies.....

>>

>>

>><< Start of Forwarded message via Prodigy Mail >>

>>

>>From:  David Blum

>>Subject:       please read this and vote

>>Date:  06/20

>>Time:  06:55 PM

>>

>>Return-Path: <davmark@mindspring.com>

>>Received: from brickbat8.mindspring.com (brickbat8.mindspring.com

>>[207.69.200.11])

>>      by pimaia1w.prodigy.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA106760

>>      for <Warshie@prodigy.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:56:48 -0400

>>Received: from 38.26.20.135 (ip135.an9-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net

>>[38.26.20.135])

>>      by brickbat8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA03646;

>>      Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:55:11 -0400 (EDT)

>>Message-ID: <33AAC4FA.42EF@mindspring.com>

>>Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:59:22 +0100

>>From: David Blum <davmark@mindspring.com>

>>Reply-To: davmark@mindspring.com

>>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; U; 68K)

>>MIME-Version: 1.0

>>To: "artworks@concentric.net" <artworks@concentric.net>,

>>        "CHFriend@aol.com" <CHFriend@aol.com>,

>>        "joshperi@netvision.net.il" <joshperi@netvision.net.il>,

>>        MS DIANNE L WARSHAVER <Warshie@prodigy.com>,

>>        Sarah Barnett <phibarn@scisun.sci.ccny.cuny.edu>,

>>        Steve Zuckerman <szucker@isd.net>,

>>        "Susan E. Ranney" <sranney@azstarnet.com>,

>>        Suzie Dennis Ben David <marketingedge@msn.com>,

>>        "zin@juno.com" <zin@juno.com>

>>Subject: please read this and vote

>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>>

>>>Forwarded message:

>>>Subj:    No Subject

>>>Date:    97-06-06 03:17:09 EDT

>>>From:    Jonapangai

>>>To:      CampNicole

>>>

>>>We have understood that a few Neo-Nazi groups are trying to create

>>>(again) a usenet group where they want to keep in contact

>>>with each other regarding their activities. I believe it is not

>>>necessary to dwell further on these activities.

>>>

>>>The group is rec.music.white-power

>>>

>>>To create such a group, they have to win a referendum that is

>>>always organised when a new usenet group is created.

>>>All persons with an email address, and only those, can vote

>>>in this referendum.

>>>

>>>It is IMPORTANT to vote only once, otherwise the vote is

>>>cancelled.

>>>

>>>To prevent the creation of this group, you have to:

>>>

>>>    1. Send this message to people you know

>>>

>>>    2. Send an email to the following address:

>>>

>>>           music-vote@sub-rosa.com

>>>

>>>    3. In the body of your message (not in the 'subject' line)

>>>      include EXACTLY and ONLY the following line:

>>>

>>>           I vote NO on rec.music.white-power

>>>

>>>Since the vote is automatic, it is IMPORTANT to send the

>>>exact line as it is given above, without adding anything, not even

>>a

>>>name.

>>>And please send it only once or it becomes invalid ! Also,

>>>

>>>PLEASE  FORWARD

>>>THIS LETTER TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW WITH AN E-MAIL ADDRESS TO

>>>PREVENT THE GROUP FOUNDERS FROM CREATING THIS GROUP.

>>>

>>>*********************************************

>>> Israel Rubinstein

>>> Professor of Chemistry

>>> Department of Materials and Interfaces

>>>The Weizmann Institute of Science

>>> Rehovot 76100, Israel

>>>Phone: +972 8 9342678     Fax: +972 8 9344137

>>> E-mail: cprubin@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il

>>>http://www.weizmann.ac.il/weg

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>Gerardo (Jerry) Rogoff

>>Field Applications Engineer

>>Exar Corporation

>>500 Clark Rd.

>>Tewksbury, MA 01876

>>

>>Tel.:    (508) 640-8899

>>FAX:   (508) 640-6926

>>Pager: (800) 943-4064

>>

>>email: jerry.rogoff@exar.com

>>Visit our Website @: http://www.exar.com

>>

>>

>><< End of Forwarded message >>

>>

>><Distribution List>

>>      (FJHE36A), J DRUCKENMILLER

>>      (TVSG32A), STEVE BOGUS

>>

>>

>><< End of Forwarded message >>

>>

>>

 

 

Sincerely,

Michael T. Montgomery

mychajlo@fast.net

 

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_01BC8EBE.DFA82380

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<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#D8D0C8"><p><font size=3D2 =

color=3D"#800080" face=3D"Arial">hmmmmmmmmm, into censorship now?<br>1. =

I believe in freedom of speech<br>2. If they are plotting in the open, =

you can keep an eye on them ;-)<br>Ann J.M.S. =

Harlan<br>annh@ccrtc.com<br><br><font =

color=3D"#000000">----------<br>From: Sherri &nbsp;&lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>love_singing@msn.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;<br>To: Stef &nbsp;&lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Ad_Libitum@msn.com</u><font color=3D"#000000">&gt;; =

HJW II &nbsp;&lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>ArchibaldLeach@msn.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;; Stuart Crosby &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>BRAVES10@msn.com</u><font color=3D"#000000">&gt;; =

Ron Vassel &lt;<font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>BlizzardKing@msn.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;; Michael Riddle &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>CENTERLINEDESIGN@msn.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;; Cari Who ELSE???? &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>CittiGirl@msn.com</u><font color=3D"#000000">&gt;; =

db &nbsp;&lt;<font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Dee-Bee@msn.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;; Homebrook &nbsp;&lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Homebrook@msn.com</u><font color=3D"#000000">&gt;; =

Jason Tinling &lt;<font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>JTinlng@msn.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;; Joseph L &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>JoePlacebo@msn.com</u><font color=3D"#000000">&gt;; =

Kevin Mathers &lt;<font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>KEVMATH@msn.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;; Kel Rayner &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Manatbar@msn.com</u><font color=3D"#000000">&gt;; =

the little people &nbsp;&lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>MarmaladeSkies@msn.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;; Kent &nbsp;&lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>NoixDeGolf@msn.com</u><font color=3D"#000000">&gt;; =

Jim B &lt;<font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>PBRUEGEL@msn.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;; Ask and I might tell you &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Peaceful-Warrior2@msn.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;; R &nbsp;&lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>ROcean@msn.com</u><font color=3D"#000000">&gt;; =

Blair &nbsp;&lt;<font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Reepoo@msn.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;; James Sims &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>SimbaJim@msn.com</u><font color=3D"#000000">&gt;; =

Sharon &nbsp;&lt;<font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>SopAndBass@msn.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;; Tom Gummo &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>TGUMMO@msn.com</u><font color=3D"#000000">&gt;; =

Life is a sick joke and I'm the punchline &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>The_Boogey_Man@msn.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;; rico &nbsp;&lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>UNIR1@msn.com</u><font color=3D"#000000">&gt;; Mark =

&nbsp;&lt;<font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Vox_Amicus@msn.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;; e.e. cummings &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>What-is_death@msn.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;; Tanya Ceccatto &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>_AngelBaby@msn.com</u><font color=3D"#000000">&gt;; =

_Prometheus1 &nbsp;&lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>_Prometheus1@msn.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;; S Johnson &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>doc11@msn.com</u><font color=3D"#000000">&gt;; Drew =

Eskenazi &lt;<font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>drewesk@msn.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;; Robert Lear &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>king_lear1@msn.com</u><font color=3D"#000000">&gt;; =

x &nbsp;&lt;<font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>king_lear1@msn.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;; PAUL KOLJESKI &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>koljeski@msn.com</u><font color=3D"#000000">&gt;; =

Silver Surfer &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>mad-chatter@msn.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;; david simoni &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>oak123@msn.com</u><font color=3D"#000000">&gt;; =

Kash Philips &nbsp;&lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>philkash@msn.com</u><font color=3D"#000000">&gt;; =

anthony osborne &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>rastafarian@msn.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;; Rico Mariani &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>ricom_ms@msn.com</u><font color=3D"#000000">&gt;; =

Robert Eback &lt;<font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>rleback@msn.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;; Stephen Baldwin &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>sabaldwin@msn.com</u><font color=3D"#000000">&gt;; =

anniepoo &lt;<font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>annh@ccrtc.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;; BigDaddyRico &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Engelsguy@aol.com</u><font color=3D"#000000">&gt;; =

Don Green &lt;<font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>NYCDBG@aol.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;; cj &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>sjohn111@aol.com</u><font color=3D"#000000">&gt;; =

<font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">; Kent Smedley &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Kent.Smedley@clorox.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;; <font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>THEBODYIS1@aol.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000"><br>Subject: FW: please read this and vote<br>Date: =

Monday, June 30, 1997 12:51 pm<br><br>This is important, please take the =

time.<br>Ciao, Sherri<br><br>----------<br>From: &#009;Jamey =

Sims<br>Sent: &#009;Monday, June 30, 1997 9:48 AM<br>To: &#009;'sherry'; =

'Dave'; 'jota'; 'Jacky'; 'Sherri'; 'Stella'; 'Jennifer'; <br>'Ralph'; =

'David Lang'; 'boyeeeeeee'; 'Suzie &amp; Robert'; 'Gary'; 'The Lang =

<br>Gang'; 'Brandon Wescott'; 'kevey'; 'Dr Cowan'; 'Renee'; 'bogie'; =

'Tammy'; <br>'Shari &amp; Troy'; 'Yvonne'<br>Subject: &#009;FW: please =

read this and vote<br><br>do this =

please<br>--Jamey<br><br>----------<br>From: &#009;Marrow<br>Sent: =

&#009;Saturday, June 28, 1997 3:35 PM<br>To: &#009;Jamey =

Sims<br>Subject: &#009;please read this and =

vote<br><br><br><br>&gt;From: Marrow &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>mychajlo@pop.fast.net</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;<br>&gt;Subject: please read this and =

vote<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;From: <font =

color=3D"#800080"><u>J_DRUCK@prodigy.com</u><font color=3D"#000000"> (MR =

JEFFREY L DRUCKENMILLER)<br>&gt;&gt;Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 07:39:12, =

-0500<br>&gt;&gt;To: <font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>rrjwalz@integrityonline.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">, <font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>mychajlo@fast.net</u><font =

color=3D"#000000"><br>&gt;&gt;Subject: please read this and =

vote<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;for your =

interest<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&lt;&lt; Start =

of Forwarded message via Prodigy Mail =

&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;From:&#009; (Warshie) DIANNE =

WARSHAVER<br>&gt;&gt;Subject:&#009; please read this and =

vote<br>&gt;&gt;Date:&#009; 06/20<br>&gt;&gt;Time:&#009; 07:28 =

PM<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;so, we are never safe from =

crazies.....<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&lt;&lt; Start of =

Forwarded message via Prodigy Mail =

&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;From:&#009; David =

Blum<br>&gt;&gt;Subject:&#009; please read this and =

vote<br>&gt;&gt;Date:&#009; 06/20<br>&gt;&gt;Time:&#009; 06:55 =

PM<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;Return-Path: &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>davmark@mindspring.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;Received: from =

brickbat8.mindspring.com (brickbat8.mindspring.com =

<br>&gt;&gt;[207.69.200.11])<br>&gt;&gt;&#009;by pimaia1w.prodigy.com =

(8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA106760<br>&gt;&gt;&#009;for &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Warshie@prodigy.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:56:48 =

-0400<br>&gt;&gt;Received: from 38.26.20.135 =

(ip135.an9-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net =

<br>&gt;&gt;[38.26.20.135])<br>&gt;&gt;&#009;by brickbat8.mindspring.com =

(8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA03646;<br>&gt;&gt;&#009;Fri, 20 Jun 1997 =

18:55:11 -0400 (EDT)<br>&gt;&gt;Message-ID: &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>33AAC4FA.42EF@mindspring.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:59:22 =

+0100<br>&gt;&gt;From: David Blum &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>davmark@mindspring.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;Reply-To: <font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>davmark@mindspring.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000"><br>&gt;&gt;X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; U; =

68K)<br>&gt;&gt;MIME-Version: 1.0<br>&gt;&gt;To: &quot;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>artworks@concentric.net</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&quot; &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>artworks@concentric.net</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;,<br>&gt;&gt; =

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&quot;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>CHFriend@aol.com</u><font color=3D"#000000">&quot; =

&lt;<font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>CHFriend@aol.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;,<br>&gt;&gt; =

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&quot;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>joshperi@netvision.net.il</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&quot; &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>joshperi@netvision.net.il</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;,<br>&gt;&gt; =

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;MS DIANNE L WARSHAVER =

&lt;<font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Warshie@prodigy.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;,<br>&gt;&gt; =

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Sarah Barnett &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>phibarn@scisun.sci.ccny.cuny.edu</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;,<br>&gt;&gt; =

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Steve Zuckerman &lt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>szucker@isd.net</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;,<br>&gt;&gt; =

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&quot;Susan E. Ranney&quot; =

&lt;<font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>sranney@azstarnet.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;,<br>&gt;&gt; =

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Suzie Dennis Ben David =

&lt;<font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>marketingedge@msn.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;,<br>&gt;&gt; =

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&quot;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>zin@juno.com</u><font color=3D"#000000">&quot; =

&lt;<font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>zin@juno.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000">&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;Subject: please read this and =

vote<br>&gt;&gt;Content-Type: text/plain; =

charset=3Dus-ascii<br>&gt;&gt;Content-Transfer-Encoding: =

7bit<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;Forwarded message:<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;Subj: =

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;No Subject<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;Date: =

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;97-06-06 03:17:09 EDT<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;From: =

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Jonapangai<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;To: =

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;CampNicole<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;W=

e have understood that a few Neo-Nazi groups are trying to =

create<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;(again) a usenet group where they want to keep in =

contact<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;with each other regarding their activities. I =

believe it is not<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;necessary to dwell further on these =

activities.<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;The group is =

rec.music.white-power<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;To create such a =

group, they have to win a referendum that is<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;always =

organised when a new usenet group is created.<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;All persons =

with an email address, and only those, can vote<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;in this =

referendum.<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;It is IMPORTANT to vote only =

once, otherwise the vote =

is<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;cancelled.<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;To prevent =

the creation of this group, you have to:<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; =

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;1. Send this message to people you =

know<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;2. Send an email =

to the following address:<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; =

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>music-vote@sub-rosa.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000"><br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;3. =

In the body of your message (not in the 'subject' line)<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; =

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;include EXACTLY and ONLY the following =

line:<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; =

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I vote NO on =

rec.music.white-power<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;Since the vote is =

automatic, it is IMPORTANT to send the<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;exact line as it =

is given above, without adding anything, not even =

<br>&gt;&gt;a<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;name.<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;And please send it =

only once or it becomes invalid ! =

Also,<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;PLEASE =

&nbsp;FORWARD<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;THIS LETTER TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW WITH AN =

E-MAIL ADDRESS TO<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;PREVENT THE GROUP FOUNDERS FROM =

CREATING THIS =

GROUP.<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;***********************************=

**********<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; Israel Rubinstein<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; Professor =

of Chemistry<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; Department of Materials and =

Interfaces<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;The Weizmann Institute of =

Science<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; Rehovot 76100, Israel<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;Phone: +972 =

8 9342678 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Fax: +972 8 9344137<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; =

E-mail: <font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>cprubin@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il</u><font =

color=3D"#000000"><br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>http://www.weizmann.ac.il/weg</u><font =

color=3D"#000000"><br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt=

;&gt;Gerardo (Jerry) Rogoff<br>&gt;&gt;Field Applications =

Engineer<br>&gt;&gt;Exar Corporation<br>&gt;&gt;500 Clark =

Rd.<br>&gt;&gt;Tewksbury, MA 01876<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;Tel.: =

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(508) 640-8899<br>&gt;&gt;FAX: &nbsp;&nbsp;(508) =

640-6926<br>&gt;&gt;Pager: (800) 943-4064<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;email: =

<font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>jerry.rogoff@exar.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000"><br>&gt;&gt;Visit our Website @: <font =

color=3D"#0000FF"><u>http://www.exar.com</u><font =

color=3D"#000000"><br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&lt;&lt; End of =

Forwarded message &gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&lt;Distribution =

List&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&#009;(FJHE36A), J DRUCKENMILLER =

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=

nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br>&gt;&gt;&#009;(TVSG32A), =

STEVE BOGUS =

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=

nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br>&gt;=

&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&lt;&lt; End of Forwarded message =

&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br><br><br>Sincerely,<br>Michael T. =

Montgomery<br><font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>mychajlo@fast.net</u><font =

color=3D"#000000"><br><br><br><br></p>

</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></f=

ont></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font=

></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></=

font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></fon=

t></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font><=

/font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></fo=

nt></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font>=

</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></f=

ont></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font=

></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></=

font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></fon=

t></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font><=

/font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></fo=

nt></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font>=

</font></font></font></font></font></font></body></html>

------=_NextPart_000_01BC8EBE.DFA82380--

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:30:04 -0500

Reply-To:     "Ann J.M.S. Harlan" <annh@CCRTC.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Ann J.M.S. Harlan" <annh@CCRTC.COM>

Subject:      Re: please read this and vote

Comments: To: Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>, Stef <Ad_Libitum@msn.com>,

          HJW II <ArchibaldLeach@msn.com>, Stuart Crosby <BRAVES10@msn.com>,

          Ron Vassel <BlizzardKing@msn.com>,

          Michael Riddle <CENTERLINEDESIGN@msn.com>,

          Cari Who ELSE???? <CittiGirl@msn.com>, db <Dee-Bee@msn.com>,

          Homebrook <Homebrook@msn.com>, Jason Tinling <JTinlng@msn.com>,

          Joseph L <JoePlacebo@msn.com>, Kevin Mathers <KEVMATH@msn.com>,

          Kel Rayner <Manatbar@msn.com>,

          the little people <MarmaladeSkies@msn.com>,

          Kent <NoixDeGolf@msn.com>, Jim B <PBRUEGEL@msn.com>,

          Ask and I might tell you <Peaceful-Warrior2@msn.com>,

          R <ROcean@msn.com>, Blair <Reepoo@msn.com>,

          James Sims <SimbaJim@msn.com>, Sharon <SopAndBass@msn.com>,

          Tom Gummo <TGUMMO@msn.com>,

          Life is a sick joke and I'm the punchline <The_Boogey_Man@msn.com>,

          rico <UNIR1@msn.com>, Mark <Vox_Amicus@msn.com>,

          "e.e. cummings" <What-is_death@msn.com>,

          Tanya Ceccatto <_AngelBaby@msn.com>,

          _Prometheus1 <_Prometheus1@msn.com>, S Johnson <doc11@msn.com>,

          Drew Eskenazi <drewesk@msn.com>, Robert Lear <king_lear1@msn.com>,

          PAUL KOLJESKI <koljeski@msn.com>,

          Silver Surfer <mad-chatter@msn.com>, david simoni <oak123@msn.com>,

          Kash Philips <philkash@msn.com>,

          anthony osborne <rastafarian@msn.com>,

          Rico Mariani <ricom_ms@msn.com>, Robert Eback <rleback@msn.com>,

          Stephen Baldwin <sabaldwin@msn.com>,

          BigDaddyRico <Engelsguy@aol.com>, Don Green <NYCDBG@aol.com>,

          cj <sjohn111@aol.com>, Kent Smedley <Kent.Smedley@clorox.com>,

          THEBODYIS1@aol.com

Comments: cc: mychajlo@fast.net, J_DRUCK@prodigy.com,

          rrjwalz@integrityonline.com, davmark@mindspring.com,

          Warshie@prodigy.com, artworks@concentric.net, CHFriend@aol.com,

          joshperi@netvision.net.il, phibarn@scisun.sci.ccny.cuny.edu,

          szucker@isd.net, sranney@azstarnet.com, zin@juno.com,

          marketingedge@msn.com, cprubin@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il,

          jerry.rogoff@exar.com

MIME-Version: 1.0

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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

 

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P.S. in case you're wondering, I abstain from voting one way or the other

 

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<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#D8D0C8"><p><font size=3D2 =

color=3D"#800080" face=3D"Arial">P.S. in case you're wondering, I =

abstain from voting one way or the other<font size=3D2 =

color=3D"#000000"><br><font size=3D2><br></p>

</font></font></font></body></html>

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=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 12 Jul 1997 14:09:49 -0400

Reply-To:     SSASN@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: cody thoughts

 

Sherri:

 

A very thoughtful post.

 

I think all of your points are interesting possibilities.  Besides, whatever

JK may have been thinking, meaning or influenced by when he wrote VOC or his

other works is not necessarily the last word, so to speak.  If YOU or any

other respondent THINKS so, it IS so.  I think it was Stravinsky who once

said that a composer only arranges notes, each listener fills them in.

 

Your "always the promise but never the dream come true" passage near the end

of your post especially struck me.  There is an undertow of unfulfilled

yearning and forlornness throughout JK's ouvre, which he regarded as one long

work (as does WSB of his output).  In a passage from OTR, Sal Paradise (JK)

rushes exuberantly down toward a river, only to run into a fence.  Throughout

OTR, it seems that only in the pendulum movement back and forth across the

continent itself is there a fleeting capture of "IT", what they were looking

for is just behind or ahead in the flow of movement.  He and most of the

others he writes about are running away from and toward something

concurrently, in an unending treadmill like an experiential/emotional food

chain.  In OTR, VOC and all the other works, we see JK and co. circulating on

the "quivering meat wheel" of bhuddist-influenced temporal recognition, while

their spirits gaze outward and upward.

 

Regards,

 

Arthur

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 12 Jul 1997 18:31:21 UT

Reply-To:     Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: cody thoughts

 

Arthur,

 

yes, I have particularly thought that JK's elusive dream is much like the

Wizard of Oz... we always look outside ourselves, chasing things that never

surfeit. i have some intuitive sense that, underneath it all, JK realized it

was all within him, but the head could not inform the heart...

 

interpretation is such mix of the subjective and objective.... how many times

have i read something, listened to music and had it take on new feelings and

meanings - increase in knowledge, state of mind, even the physical state can

heavily influence the interpreter's reception of the input.

 

ciao,

sherri

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Arthur Nusbaum

Sent:   Saturday, July 12, 1997 11:09 AM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Re: cody thoughts

 

Sherri:

 

A very thoughtful post.

 

I think all of your points are interesting possibilities.  Besides, whatever

JK may have been thinking, meaning or influenced by when he wrote VOC or his

other works is not necessarily the last word, so to speak.  If YOU or any

other respondent THINKS so, it IS so.  I think it was Stravinsky who once

said that a composer only arranges notes, each listener fills them in.

 

Your "always the promise but never the dream come true" passage near the end

of your post especially struck me.  There is an undertow of unfulfilled

yearning and forlornness throughout JK's ouvre, which he regarded as one long

work (as does WSB of his output).  In a passage from OTR, Sal Paradise (JK)

rushes exuberantly down toward a river, only to run into a fence.  Throughout

OTR, it seems that only in the pendulum movement back and forth across the

continent itself is there a fleeting capture of "IT", what they were looking

for is just behind or ahead in the flow of movement.  He and most of the

others he writes about are running away from and toward something

concurrently, in an unending treadmill like an experiential/emotional food

chain.  In OTR, VOC and all the other works, we see JK and co. circulating on

the "quivering meat wheel" of bhuddist-influenced temporal recognition, while

their spirits gaze outward and upward.

 

Regards,

 

Arthur

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 12 Jul 1997 16:32:40 -0400

Reply-To:     SSASN@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Cody: Imitation of the Tape

 

Diane:

 

I'm behind in responding to some of your earlier posts, but to strike the

hammer while the iron is hot as to this, your latest installment in the

voluminous VOC discussion now occupying us:

 

The lengthy passage you quote from this section of VOC where JK muses on his

predicament as a writer is very poignant, tragically humorous, humorously

tragic, laugh until you cry, cry until you laugh, etc., etc.  He gets

(descends?) into this theme from time to time in this and other works.

 There's a passage in another work that's at the tip of my tongue/mind, I

just can't think of it right now, I probably will remember this as soon as

"your mail has been sent", or you can tell me if you know.  Anyway, it is a

thinly fictionalized (as usual) description of one of JK's visits to his

sister Nin's home in rural North Carolina, and he wonders what the local

denizens think of him as he takes long walks into the forest in the middle of

the day- do they find him pathetic or are they envious?  He gets defensive,

showing an essential insecurity that I suspect he never quite overcame, all

but coming out and saying "I may seem like a shiftless loafer/bum/hobo, but

I'm busting my butt, working hard and with scores of complete works under my

belt, albeit unpublished after a promising start" (remember the 7 years

between the publications of THE TOWN AND THE CITY and ON THE ROAD).  Partly,

it is a self-fortifying process, he has to assure himself of the validity and

integrity of his efforts, at times like what he's describing in your quoted

passage, there's no one else, not even NC, to do the assuring.  And he wavers

wildly between self-confidence and utter despair, even literally knocking his

head against the wall of the house, according to his description.

 

I think that part of the depth of feeling the works of JK, including VOC,

elicit in the reader is a sort of frustrated wish to cut through time and

squeeze his arm, pat him on the shoulder, whatever, and say "people

appreciate you, you've been validated a thousand times over, those status-quo

critics are the ones forgotten in the trashbin of history, you've touched and

are loved by so many....", but alas it's too late, he did not live to be

caught up with as we have, he was "....never taken seriously while he lived"

as John Clellon Holmes said in the (great) WHAT HAPPENED TO KEROUAC? film

biography.

 

Ginsberg once said of WSB (as recounted near the end of EL HOMBRE INVISIBLE

by Barry Miles) that his life was a demonstration of "lonely courage".  In

WSB's case, he has lived long enough for many admirers to understand and

appreciate this quality and what it produced.  The spectre of the bitter,

bloated chronic alcoholic that Kerouac became before his premature death

hangs over these passages.  But his works, if not his sad haunted self during

his brief earthly incarnation, got the last laugh and are immortal.

 

Regards,

 

Arthur

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 12 Jul 1997 20:01:00 -0400

Reply-To:     Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

Subject:      Visions of Cody

Comments: To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

In-Reply-To:  <UPMAIL14.199707121829320495@msn.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Interesting to note that "Visions of Cody" was the one major Kerouac work

not published during his lifetime.  It was published in the early 70's

at the insistence of Allen Ginsberg, who had promised Kerouac he'd get it

published and who knocked on doors for years with the manuscript before

getting it sold.  Allen's forward, "visions of the great remember" is in

the early editions of 'Cody' and it is terrific.  This book being in

print is one friend's lasting tribute to another.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:01:24 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: NEA (was Re academics)

Comments: To: BOHEMIAN@maelstrom.stjohns.edu

 

In a message dated 97-07-12 00:28:51 EDT, you write:

 

<< I was getting tired of paying (taxes) to subsidize my own competition <g>

>>

The thing that the Nea overlooked was taht the "quality" was going down. As

Hart Crane sd in a poem abt Akron after a song'poet fiddler==we paid the guy

because we liked it.  The NEA pitch was that it was only a few cents out of

taxpayer's pockets. I'd like my few cents back from all those poets who got

20 grand to proliferate their workshop poems. If they all paid me back, I'd

have a few bucks. If everyone who paid in those few cents wanted their money

back, that would amount to a few million. I really got tired of the wkshop

academics who handed money to each other. Let them find their own way. if

they have somthing to say.

If anyone is interested in my Catfish  McDaris Chiron interview that caused a

fuss, it is now on line at <http://www.thing.net/~grist/homebove.htm> Robert

Bove has a fine liitle mag going. Check it out.

BTW Dave Breithaupt, I got the old memeo GRIST today you wanted to trade for

Apocalypse Rose, Do you have Haselwood's edition? I'll try to make a special

edition for you anyway.

C. Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 12 Jul 1997 09:48:57 -0700

Reply-To:     Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Cody: Imitation of the Tape

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

>Arthur Nusbaum wrote:

>

> The lengthy passage you quote from this section of VOC where JK muses

> on his

> predicament as a writer is very poignant, tragically humorous,

> humorously

> tragic, laugh until you cry, cry until you laugh, etc., etc.  He gets

> (descends?) into this theme from time to time in this and other

> works...He gets defensive,

> showing an essential insecurity that I suspect he never quite overcame,

> all

> but coming out and saying "I may seem like a shiftless loafer/bum/hobo,

> but

> I'm busting my butt, working hard and with scores of complete works

> under my

> belt, albeit unpublished after a promising start" (remember the 7 years

> between the publications of THE TOWN AND THE CITY and ON THE ROAD).

> Partly,

> it is a self-fortifying process, he has to assure himself of the

> validity and

> integrity of his efforts, at times like what he's describing in your

> quoted

> passage, there's no one else, not even NC, to do the assuring.  And he

> wavers

> wildly between self-confidence and utter despair, even literally

> knocking his

> head against the wall of the house, according to his description.

Arthur,

 

The role of the writer carrying that burden of having to write about life

as well as live it also seems to play a part in what Jack found

appealing about the way Neal lived life.  Neal was unfettered in a way

because it was never really his destiny to write about what they were

doing.  Kerouac sensed his own gift, he not only was sensitive, felt too

much, but he also had to articulate all of it into words.  That makes the

fact that publishers discarded his works doubly tragic. Here was a great

writer, as you say, wavering "wildly between self-confidence and utter

despair."

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:54:22 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: eye heart crane

 

In a message dated 97-07-12 05:07:15 EDT, you write:

 

<<

 Were you ever much of a "dandy" Charley?  Ever take any interests in

fashion? >>

 

Shit. Haven't you seen the photos of me "going to Kansas City in my zoot

suit? Look at: www.buchenroth.com/cplymell.html and find the photos of me in

the 50s.

CP

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 12 Jul 1997 20:49:54 -0500

Reply-To:     LISA VEDROS <2ndbeat@TELAPEX.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         LISA VEDROS <2ndbeat@TELAPEX.COM>

Subject:      Secind Beat

Comments: To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU.

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

hey, Thadeus here....upon suggestion from Sherri, I've decided to post a

list of the contributors to the Allen Ginsberg Memorial Issue of Second

Beat.

 

Me, Thadeus D'Angelo

my partner, Domenic Salvatore

and a whole slew of talented beat kats: Ralph Alfonso, Gary Parker, Michael

Stutz, David Laslie,  Christopher Lott, Simon Seamount.....and "Allen

Ginsberg Dying" by Lawrence Ferlinghetti

 

there are also a few articles and such.

 

I think it's a pretty good read, as magazines go. We tried to do our best

to honor his memory. It's our best issue yet....but it's the first issue

since we upgraded our system, so that says alot.

 

anyway, once again:

The Allen Ginsberg Memorial Issue of Second Beat is available for $1.00,

and is full of poetry and articles about the "Best Mind of Our Generation."

 

Send a buck to:

Camelia City Books

2034 Johnston Station Road

Summit, Ms 39666

 

Thanks,

Thadeus D'Angelo, Camelia City Books

 

also...for maybe a dollar or so to cover the postage, we'll send you our

two free sample issue....the "experimental" issues.

 

we started out as a non-profit magazine. then we got real broke real fast.

now we're a low-profit magazine. any donations in the way of a buck or so

extra would be HIGHY appreciated, but we WILL continue to send issues for

only ONE dollar an issue and TEN dollars for a year subscription.

 

I hope we live up to our predecessors, the original beats, and I hope we

can supply to all of you a good magazine.

 

once again, feel free to submit ANY prose or poetry. it'll most likely see

print, as one of our main functions is to let new writers see their words

in print.

 

that's me Second Beat in a nutshell, people. any qeustions, e-mail us at:

2ndbeat@telapex.com

 

thanks again,

Thadeus D'Angelo, Camellia City Books

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 12 Jul 1997 22:19:22 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: eye heart crane

 

Double -Duty Dandy- a charachter in Last of the Moccasins. Also when Barbitol

Bob and I got outta the joint in 50's we had a stable of girls and "girls". I

travelled the Northwest with my sister, who was a prostitute in the 50's. The

men were rounders or dandys or pimps, Followed basically the same roads as

Jack Black, The sheriff checked hands for callouses to know who didn't work.

My sister's man was the son of the sheriif of Deadwood, S.D. and a black

madam. somewhat like East of Eden -James Dean. I migrated to Hollywood and

KC. I label myself and genre as "Hobohemian Hipster",Also publishe in a

couple recent issuse of NIGHT mag from the Gershwin Hotel in NYC. High

fashion as you can get.

Charles Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 12 Jul 1997 22:41:26 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Cody Notes and Queries

 

In a message dated 97-07-12 08:56:12 EDT, you write:

 

<< Find myself wondering whether the real Neal was really a good pool

 player.  Doesn't seem the right type.  I have watched some great 9 ball

 players.  Most are really idiot savants.  Great concentration and hand

 and eye.  Good sense of just how good they need to play at a given time

 to keep the fish on. Can't remember any that were talkers. travel with a

 horse who gets the game up, carries money, and can sense how deep the

 pockets are.  Neal strikes me as maybe a decent bar eightball player on

 a table where shots don't have to be called.  Lot's of serendipitous

 slop shots and a good patter.    Don't trust Jack as a reliable witness

 on this as he was clearly way too infatuated.    Ginsberg even less

 credible.

 

 Charley, Leon, and all you historians, help me out on this cunnumdrum.

 

 J. Stauffer

  >>

You got that exactly, James. Right down to interpretation, too. Neal was a

sweetheart, but I don't think he even liked pool halls. I remember some guy

wanting to start something in a bar/poolhall and Neal came over to me to

"interrupt" the play. He was a "peacable man" as any grade B movie hero wd

tell ya. Fighting wasn't his thing. He only defended the title, "The fastest

Word in the West". I admired him for that. His eye and coordination was for

driving, not shooting pool.

Charles Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 12 Jul 1997 22:55:28 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: "buy me a bicycle and cut my skin"

 

In a message dated 97-07-12 09:42:34 EDT, you write:

 

<< <<hm>> breathe -- I'm asking you

 "buy me a skin and cut my bicycle"

 "bicycle skin and buy me a cut"

 "me skin cut buy bicycle and my"

 

 

 --==+ so thanx Charley Plymell

 http://www.electriciti.com/babu/images/Hidden_equinox.html

 

 Douglas

  >>

 

Wow! That's incredible. Is that a collage? Do you have a print of it?

Actually, I must confess I stole that line from som old book  from France I

believe that were case studies of insane kids. That line stuck in my mind for

years and I had no way of knowing its documentation, so I did a Dutch

Schultz/Burroughs borrowing. The credit goes to some poor kid in a maison de

sante many years ago. Let us bless him or her.

Charles Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:14:24 +0000

Reply-To:     randyr@southeast.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Comments:     Authenticated sender is <randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>

From:         randy royal <randyr@SOUTHEAST.NET>

Subject:      Re: skimming Part 1 Cody

MIME-Version: 1.0

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> Date:          Mon, 7 Jul 1997 11:53:53 -0400

> Reply-to:      SSASN@AOL.COM

> From:          Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>

> Subject:       Re: skimming Part 1 Cody

> To:            BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

 

> Dear David:

>

> At the end of your "skimming part 1 Cody" message, you write:

>

> "bye bye- off to count the number of times Henry Fonda appears in Part One (i

> didn't catch Jimmy Stewart in there at all- damn shame!)....

>

> Since we're on the subject of such references, did you notice the description

> of JK running into a movie scene being filmed in front of a San Francisco

> apartment building?  By coincidence, I saw the movie SUDDEN FEAR with Joan

> Crawford and Jack Palance just before encountering the passage, and put 2&2

> together- he is describing a scene from that movie being shot on location.  I

> don't have the book with me now but I will try to locate it, I think but am

> not sure that it's in part 1, and he uses a thinly-disguised name for Joan

> Crawford who's at the center of the anecdote, it's a great description of the

> weirdness and tension he experiences when he bumps into this scene.

>

> Regards,

>

> Arthur S. Nusbaum

>

>

the passage your thinking of is the last part of VOC, JOan raWSHanKs

in the FOg.... i know this because about a week before all of this

summer reading buzz happened, i just finished visions of cody.... am

randomly rereading passages though, because the rest of you are and i

thought why not? cya~ randy

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 12 Jul 1997 23:19:09 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: eye heart crane

 

In a message dated 97-07-12 17:41:03 EDT, you write:

 

<< Sherri,

 

 Particularly in poetry, there a place where over-analysis starts to

 overide the impact of one's initial response emotionally to a poem.

 That's the feeling I get with where you guys are going with this one.

  I don't suggest that you not continue to look for books of Charles'

 poems, but in the meantime, check out his web site,

 http://www.buchenroth.com/cplymell.html

 There you will find much of his writing including a 148K file of the

 poems in Robbin the Pillars for Generation X in the Age of Apostasy,

 including the one you are discussing.

 DC >>

 

poor girl freaks hides her face in hands

great poetry, Cleopatra

 

Why can't you buy my books from Jeff Weinberg? Am I censored? He may have a

few left.

Charles Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 12 Jul 1997 23:28:03 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Visions of Cody

 

Seems I remember something about City Lights turning it down. I think CL has

become a little hotbed of nepotism

Charles Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 13 Jul 1997 01:34:19 -0700

Reply-To:     Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: Cody Notes and Queries

Comments: To: stauffer@pacbell.net

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

James Stauffer wrote:

>

> Sloshing my way still through Part 2.

>

> Find myself wondering whether the real Neal was really a good pool

> player.  Doesn't seem the right type.

 

> Charley, Leon, and all you historians, help me out on this cunnumdrum.

>

> J. Stauffer

> .-

James and whoever is interested,

 

In the nine years that I have been  pretty close friends with Neal, he

has not shown a great interst in playing pool, or talked about himself

as a great pool player. He could become very animated when watching car

races or talking about race car drivers drivers, but not so much about

pool playing.

 

leon

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 13 Jul 1997 08:24:13 -0400

Reply-To:     Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      small pome

Mime-Version: 1.0

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INTOXICATION

 

(for michael and craig)

 

clouds burst

and rain down

on poets

wandering in street

searching for poetical drink.

 

suddenly drenched!

clouds burst!

we laugh and turn faces up,

mouths open

to drink in the sky--

 

leap-frogging puddles,

laughing

        tumbling

                shouting

                        splashing!

 

until, many blocks later

        we pour ourselves into the car,

ending

        the best

                poetical

                        drunk

                                by far.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:36:04 +0200

Reply-To:     Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Dean Moriarty & cars.

Mime-Version: 1.0

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friends,

i quote from ''On The Road'' ..."Friday night beyond all doubt the

three of us - the old threesome of Carlo, Dean, and Sal -

must go to the midget auto races, and for that I can get

us a ride from a guy downtown I know...",

 

in italian "midget car" was translated as "microvettura",

("Sulla strada", 1959), but im' a bit confused cos micro

is a prefix for infinitesimally little, i dont' know

what kind of car was involved in races in America during 1947,

& at the moment in Italy a "microvettura" is like those little

toys (just so tiny car) operated by remote control,

any idea 'bout "midget car"?

 

cari saluti,

---

yrs

Rinaldo.

 

btw     Enrico Caruso (Naples 1873 - Naples 1921),

        was the first opera singer who recorded on disk his

        own performances.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:58:47 -0500

Reply-To:     "john v. omlor" <omlor@PACKET.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "john v. omlor" <omlor@PACKET.NET>

Subject:      An Introductory Offering.

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Hello.

 

I've recently joined this list and thought by way of introduction I'd post

a piece I wrote a few years back (since I notice that people seem ok about

posting and reading each others' creative stuff here as well as their

critical insights).  Me?  My name is John and I teach literature at the

University of South Florida.  I've taught a seminar on the "beats" a couple

of times and try and teach some of the stuff (especially Kerouac, Ginsberg,

Corso, and Ferlinghetti) whenever possible in Americal Lit. courses or

modern lit. courses or poetry surveys or even Blake seminars, etc..

Although my "area," as they say in academe, is actually "postmodern" lit

and theory (my diss. was on Garcia Marquez and Derrida), I do get to teach

almost all 19th and 20th century British, American and world lit at one

time or another and I have a particular soft spot for a lot of the works

discussed on this list.  Well, enough about work.  Poetry is something



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