=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:49:37 -0400
Reply-To: "P.A.Maher"
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "P.A.Maher"
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Some of the Dharma
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At
03:30 PM 7/21/97 EDT, you wrote:
>I
think it's schedule for a September release date to be followed by the
>"Selected
Letters v.2", although this pub date may have been pushed up.
>
It will
be released on September 5th along with ON the Road 40th Anniversary
edition.
It has 432 pages filled with various journal entries, letter
fragments,
prayers, literary essays (nice one on Dostoyevsky), musings,
thoughts,
dreams, poems, and every one in a typeset facsimile exactly as
Jack
wrote them. The book will mark a significant addition to the Kerouac
canon
and just plain makes compelling reading. Ignore Kircus Reviews
negative
review on this book which is written by a feminist critic who is
less
than fond of Kerouac's misogynistic turns i.e. "Pretty women make
graves.
Fuck you all."
Selected Letters II is now expected next
fall because Ann Charters had
scholarly
obligations to fulfill (editing a textbook or some stuff like that).
Read
this Summer's Kerouac Quarterly for more info. . .40 pages for $2.95.
Thanks, Paul of The Kerouac Quarterly.. . .
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 17:47:24 -0400
Reply-To: Jcarsonm@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Murphy <Jcarsonm@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: What NEXT?
The
subject WHAT NEXT is about discovery--we all have more than one ratty
copy of
Ulysses & Eliot & Proust &
Gravity's Rainbow. They'll always be
there. It would be fun again to discover again
Lonesome Traveler. Try it.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:26:28 -0700
Reply-To: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher
<brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Catch-ups
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Thanks
for the catch-ups guys ... I've actually
been
following for about 3 days.
I
mainly came back on because I got the BEAT-L
shirt from
Jeffrey Weinberg with that nice and
very
generous letter, and I thought "how can I
go
around wearing a BEAT-L shirt -- a *free*
BEAT-L
shirt in fact -- if I'm not on BEAT-L?"
Thanks
Jeffrey ...
And, to
chime in on the threads ...
1) I
just can't see that Kerouac was gay, though I've
heard
this argument before. Yes, he did
apparently
have
sex with Gore Vidal, collect blowjobs from Allen
Ginsberg,
etc., but I believe this was all in the spirit
of
openness to experience and all that.
After all,
he
lived a pretty wild life -- he did a *lot* of
things. But primarily he was interested in exploring
the
depths of his personality through his writings,
and it
would have been uncharacteristic of him to
have
kept some secret attraction towards men out of
his
written record. This is a guy, I
honestly
believe,
who didn't keep secrets. I think
truthfulness
was as
deep an artistic principle as any he had,
and his
principles were everything to him.
2)
Visions of Cody -- yeah, it's not the easiest
book to
read. I skimmed the tape parts. I love
the
first section, though.
------------------------------------------------------
| Levi
Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
|
|
|
| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (3 years old and still running) |
|
|
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
|
|
|
*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*
|
|
|
| "It was my dream that screwed up" |
| -- Jack
Kerouac |
------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:49:42 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac and Women
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Sherri,
Now
now, you make me sound like a Sensitive New Age Guy I don't think my
friends
would recognize. Just an old dinosaur
who has learned to
survive
the hysteria of current sexual politics by picking his words
carefully
:)
Who was
it, Stokely Carmichael? who when asked about the place of women
in the
Black Power movement replied "On their backs." Not an anwer that
would
have shocked AG, JK or WSB I suspect, although given their
preferences
AG and WSB wouldn't have found it all that helpful
James
Stauffer
Sherri
wrote: . . .
>
>
all that being said, Bill & James, i would like to thank you both for what
i
>
infer to be an enlightened, progressive and caring attitude toward women.
>
ciao,
>
sherri
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:01:31 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Bay Area Beat-L Bash
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The
first annual SF Bay Area Beat-L Bash will be held the evening of
August
2 at a secret location on the Peninsula. This is your opportunity
to find
out of any of us are real. Interested partiers are encouraged to
backchannel
me for particulars. You might as well
come because the rest
of you
will probably have to endure our posts until Bill Gargan cuts us
off
from communion (OK, I've been reading Ulysses).
Rave on
James
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 20:57:08 -0500
Reply-To: "Ryan L. Stonecipher"
<r_stonecipher@GEOCITIES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Ryan L. Stonecipher"
<r_stonecipher@GEOCITIES.COM>
Subject: Re: What NEXT?
Comments:
To: "Jcarsonm@AOL.COM" <Jcarsonm@AOL.COM>
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thinking
maybe if we're going to do a reading list of sorts...why not some
poetry too?
just an idea...tell me what you think,
ryan.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 20:25:45 -0700
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand <vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Re: What NEXT?
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Since
everyone seems to be talking about Kerouac and his relationships
with women,
how about _The Subterraneans_, and maybe Bukowski's _Women_
to go
along with the theme?
Adrien
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:48:04 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Good beginning
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>
James Stauffer wrote:
>
>
>
> Benz and Diane,
>
>
>
> You guys make some good points about this book, but you also raise a
>
> couple of issues that have been troubling me.
>
>
>
> I have trouble with AG as an explicator of this book (VOC) and really
>
> of
>
> Jack in general. It seems to me
that while he is often brilliantly
>
> insightful about Jack, Allen also tries to rewrite Jack into sharing
>
> his
>
> own mythology and theology more than Jack perhaps did. Ginsberg is
>
> always a propagandist. We get sort
of a strange phenomenon going
>
> here,
>
> Jack trying to rewrite Neal as he would like him to be and then Allen
>
> putting his spin onto the whole thing. This is a pretty natural
>
> dynamic
>
> among friends. Most of us know
better what our friends should do to
>
> improve their lives better than we know what to do about our own.
>
>
>
> I tried for awhile to read VOC without first reading AG's
>
introduction
>
> so as to be able to see the book with my own eyes rather than
>
> Ginsbergs.
>
>
>
> James Stauffer
I don't
see Ginsberg's notes on VOC as rewriting Jack based on his own
agenda. I actually thought his memories of the
events and his
interpretation
of the novel as a whole gave me more of a sense of what
was
going on in terms of method, and that his knowledge of Jack as a
friend
was what created that elucidation.
There were times when I might
not
have seen the point in finishing VOC if it was not for his insistence
that a
certain type of greatness resided within the work. I don't see
what he
wrote as having any sort of selfish motivation. I think he was
truly
disgusted with publishers that refused to publish the work because
it
might not sell well. The difficulty of
technique makes it truly hard
to
digest for anyone not interested in all aspects of Kerouac's
development
as a writer.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:06:20 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac and Women
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>
Sherri wrote:
>
> i
think i must not have gotten my point across.
>
> i
really don't think JK was sexist.
>
> i
do believe that he had personal problems with women, and
>
relationships in
>
general, but i don't believe he held the notion that women should be
>
seen and
>
not heard, didn't have minds, shouldn't have careers, etc., which were
>
the
>
prevailing opinions i grew up with.
>
> my
point was that i think that JK was aware and had at least given some
>
consideration to the "woman question" as it stood in the 50's. and
>
that he
>
realized that there was some unfairness for women.
Upon
what do you base your statement about Kerouac giving consideration
to the
woman question? I have to agree with
Bill and James here and
perhaps
even more strongly assert that he never had any idea of what a
woman's
mind or point of view might have been.
To put it as blatently as
he
certainly did in VOC and OTR, he saw women as cunts. He never talked
about a
woman has being intelligent or independent, or ever even came
close
to understanding a woman's mindset. And
despite the fact that
we are
talking about the forties and fifties, there were certainly
independent
and professional women to be found.
When he took a woman to
dinner
or met one at a party, he certainly never had anything in mind
close
to wanting to more from her than sex.
How many women did he invite
over to
discuss his latest writing with? He
couldn't deal with a
husband/wife
situation and he certainly couldn't deal with a
daughter/father
relationship. He was a great writer and
the humanness he
so
eloquently described applied to women as well as men, but I think he
was a
sexist in every sense of the word.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:12:03 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: New thread
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>
Bill Gargan wrote:
>
>
"Some of the Dharma" is about to hit the bookstores. How about making
>
this our new thread?
Since
it seems that "Some of the Dharma" is not going to be available
until
September, why don't we have a Kerouac summer and next read
something
in between VOC and the new book that might help to bridge the
gap
between VOC and then. Any suggestions
as to which book would be best
for
that kind of reading?
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 20:29:09 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: [Fwd: reading on August 22nd]
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Griffin
requested that I pass this on to the list since he is currently
off
list travelling.
s.a.
griffin wrote:
. . .
>
>
listen, could you do me a favor, since I am no longer on the beatlist,
>
could you post the following info for me?
>
> am
producing/hosting a reading of beat poets at The Galaxa Studios 3707
>
Sunset Blvd. in Silverlake area of Los Angeles, Friday August 22nd at 8pm.
> 6
bucks at the door. The readers are :
>
>
Philomene Long
>
Jack Micheline
>
Frank T. Rios
>
Tony Scibella
>
John Thomas
>
>
they are all Venice Beats save for Jack who is of course out of New York
>
and San Francisco. A small coming
together of west coast beat.
>
>
hope that all is well. when ya coming
down? my regards to all on the list...
>
>
later
>
xxxooo
>
s.a.
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Date:
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To:
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
From:
"s.a. griffin" <sagriffin@mindspring.com>
Subject:
reading on August 22nd
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James,
been outta town working in Salt Lake, back for a week or so.
Yeah,
the big beat will be a lotta work, but could be rewarding to say the
least. an education and a coming together. will
talk more on that after I
get
back from my second round in Salt Lake middle of August.
listen,
could you do me a favor, since I am no longer on the beatlist,
could
you post the following info for me?
am
producing/hosting a reading of beat poets at The Galaxa Studios 3707
Sunset
Blvd. in Silverlake area of Los Angeles, Friday August 22nd at 8pm.
6 bucks
at the door. The readers are :
Philomene
Long
Jack
Micheline
Frank
T. Rios
Tony
Scibella
John
Thomas
they
are all Venice Beats save for Jack who is of course out of New York
and San
Francisco. A small coming together of
west coast beat.
hope
that all is well. when ya coming
down? my regards to all on the list...
later
xxxooo
s.a.
--------------8381DB32F57--
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 00:20:10 -0700
Reply-To: dumo13@EROLS.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Chris Dumond <dumo13@EROLS.COM>
Subject: Get your kicks on ????
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Hello,
Something
funny has always bothered me, maybe it's because of my age...
but
does anyone know the roads Neal and Jack took cross-country? I'd be
exstactic
beyond anyone's imaginations if someone could tell me.
Thanks,
Chris
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 21:30:58 -0700
Reply-To: runner611 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner611
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: reading on August 22nd]
In-Reply-To: <33D42905.4581@pacbell.net>
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At 8:29
PM -0700 7/21/97, James Stauffer passed along from s.a.:
>
> am producing/hosting a reading of beat poets at The Galaxa Studios 3707
>
> Sunset Blvd. in Silverlake area of Los Angeles, Friday August 22nd at 8pm.
>
> 6 bucks at the door. The readers
are :
I think
I can make this. cool.
Dogulas
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/
step
aside, and let the man go thru
----> let the man go thru
super bon-bon
(soul coughing)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:40:51 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Cody: the last 100 pages
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I did
finish VOC and I have got to say the ending left me in total
dispair. There is no doubt that by the time you have
gotten to this part
of the
work, that Cody has become largely a gigantic mythological figure,
and
that this mythical giant is beaten down by America and fades into
total
dispair for all that America is and all that Cody can never become.
I was
totally depressed by the ending, in fact, given the darkness and
bleakness
of the situation, I have no doubt as to Jack drank to block
his
sense of sadness and despair. The end
contains such great despair,
it
could even drive me to drink.
Here
are some quotes that paint the picture:
pg. 321
"Cody
stands, implacable, unforetold, expressionless, almost dull looking
and
ridiculously serious, Cody Pomeray. showing me how he will die, and
how
well he does and also not showing anything to anyone but just being
there,
dead in the void."
pg. 327
"the
dusk of the park, the benches, the sad walk, the gathering darkness,
the
hollow shell of Cody haunting the gloom and these Mexican monuments
and
fountains like the ones we saw in Chapultepee Park at the bottom of
the
road--Cody is dead."
pg. 335
"Do
I have a baby daughter somewhere? I
have not troubled to find
out..."
pg. 340
"I
saw that in his wild life of car-stealing, girl-conning, poolhalling
and
hustling he needed order and a certain amount of help. He was very
youthful
and severe, and I marveled at him--openly with myself I thought
of him
as a heartbreaking new friend, in fact very beautiful to whom the
only
thing I could ever be left to say would be, 'Ah but your beauty will
die and
so will life and the world."
pg. 368
"I
writing this book because we are all going to die--In the loneliness
of my
life, my father dead, my brother dead, my mother faraway, my sister
and
wife far away, nothing here but my own tragic hands that once were
guarded
by a world, a sweet attention, that now are left to guide and
disappear
their own way into the common dark of all our death, sleeping
in me
raw bed, alone and stupid; with just this one pride and
consolation:
my heart broke in the general despair and opened upwards
toward
the Lord, I made a suplication in this dream."
pg. 373
"we
all stumbled out into raggedy American realities from the dream of
jazz:
all our truths are at night, are to be found in the night on land
or
sea. Pray for the safety of the mind;
find a justification for
yourself
in the past only; romanticize yourself into nights. What is the
truth? You can't communicate with any other being,
forever. Cody is so
lost in
his private--being--If I were God I'd have the word, Cody is my
friend
and he is doomed as I am doomed."
pg. 389
"I'm
powerless in from of such lonliness and imprisoned despair..."
Pg. 397
"I
stood on sandpiles with an open soul, I not only accept loss forever,
I am
made of loss--I am made of Cody too..."
pg. 398
"Goodbye
Cody--your lips in your moments of self-possessed knowledge and
new
found responsible goodness are as silent, make at least a noise, and
mystify
with sense in nature, like the light of an automobile reflecting
from
the shinny silverpaint of a sidewalk tank this very instant, as
silent
and all this, as a bird crossing the dawn in search of the
mountain
cross and the sea beyond the city at the end of the land.
Adios, you who watched the sun go
down, at the rail, by my side,
smiling--
Adios, King.
Strickly
in the framework of this ending, what hope can we hold for
America
or each other? We are betrayed by
America, betrayed by our own
mortality. Within this sense of doom, what makes any
action any better
than
any other action? Here despair has
taken hold of the mind and there
can be
nothing new or expectant about life, only the fact that we are
doomed
to die, and doomed in trying to lead any sort of life in the light
of
American decay. For what can one
hope? The hero is no longer a hero.
The hero is as doomed as the mind that
created him. Why not wallow as
Jack
does, in this dispair. Does anyone see
even one positive thing in
the
ending of this book?
And,
btw, I now see the tape as an essential thing, for in it begins the
basic
thread that the writer must then elaborate on and develop. Even
though
taken alone, it does not illuminate anything, it does give a
foundation
from which the writer can take the words and further develop
them as
Jack did in the chapters that followed--much like a jazz piece
that
starts out rather basic and then is taken to greater places by those
that
pick up the original notes.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 22:01:27 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Cody: the last 100 pages
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Diane,
Admittedly
I haven't yet made the last 100 pages, but your argument
troubles
me, as this book does.
Why is
this America's fault? This part misses
me completely. Writers
have
been dealing with the inevitability of death since Homer and the
Biblical
writers. As long as man has been
writing this has been at the
center
of it. Doesn't make it any easier to
accept, but it's certainly
not
Jack's discovery tho he sometimes seems to think so.
Modern
life everywhere has been tough on heroes.
I suspect even Homer
thought
it was better in the old days. Again,
not a new discovery by
JK. I think that this is why the book strikes me
as so damn
frustratingly
naive. How does America fail Cody? Are
we to infer that
had
Cody been in France or India or the USSR his fate would have been
much
different. Color me dense, but I just
don't get it. This goes back
to the
argument that Corso and Ginsberg make that America failed Jack so
he
drank himself to death. America fails
us all. All of our countries
fail
us. Life often seems a bad joke. If we don't do our best to
hasten
our deaths are we showing a lack of artistic senstivity or what?
James
Stauffer
Diane
Carter wrote:
, , ,
>
>
Strickly in the framework of this ending, what hope can we hold for
>
America or each other? We are betrayed
by America, betrayed by our own
> mortality. Within this sense of doom, what makes any
action any better
>
than any other action? Here despair has
taken hold of the mind and there
>
can be nothing new or expectant about life, only the fact that we are
>
doomed to die, and doomed in trying to lead any sort of life in the light
> of
American decay. For what can one
hope? The hero is no longer a hero.
> The hero is as doomed as the mind that
created him. Why not wallow as
>
Jack does, in this dispair. Does anyone
see even one positive thing in
>
the ending of this book?
>
>
And, btw, I now see the tape as an essential thing, for in it begins the
>
basic thread that the writer must then elaborate on and develop. Even
>
though taken alone, it does not illuminate anything, it does give a
>
foundation from which the writer can take the words and further develop
>
them as Jack did in the chapters that followed--much like a jazz piece
>
that starts out rather basic and then is taken to greater places by those
>
that pick up the original notes.
> DC
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 06:17:58 -0700
Reply-To: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Re: Cody: the last 100 pages
Mime-Version:
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(snipped)
>How
does America fail Cody? Are we to infer that had
>Cody
been in France or India or the USSR his fate would have been
>much
different. Color me dense, but I just
don't get it. This goes back
>to
the argument that Corso and Ginsberg make that America failed Jack so
>he
drank himself to death. America fails
us all. All of our countries
>fail
us. Life often seems a bad joke. If we don't do our best to
>hasten
our deaths are we showing a lack of artistic senstivity or what?
>
>James
Stauffer
James,
I don't think that Kerouac was arguing that
the country of America had
failed
him or Cody literally (I haven't read the book under discussion but
I've
gotten a similar sense from some of his other books), more that the
"American
Dream" had failed them.
"Life"- sorry, you can
only borrow it.
"Liberty"-
well, here's a taste but hurry, the cops are coming. "The
pursuit
of happiness"- we didn't word that right, actually it's more like
"The
flight from misery". A country
can't fail you but your hopes for a
country
can disappoint the hell outta you. The
ideals which your country
claims
to espouse and the things, like life itself, which you take for
granted
often backslap you once you're old enough to realize it. I don't
think
that this is a display of naivety, rather a sign that coming of age is
a
lifelong process.
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 08:51:59 -0500
Reply-To: LISA VEDROS <2ndbeat@TELAPEX.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: LISA VEDROS
<2ndbeat@TELAPEX.COM>
Subject: Second Beat #4
Comments:
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU.
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Having
met with sucess (increasing everyday) in the distribution of Second
Beat #3
(the Allen Ginsberg Memorial, I'm sure you'll all remember, which
is
still available-a very limited supply of first printings before we go
into
reprints-for a buck) we have moved on to our fourth issue-the
religious
persecution issue. Having received two letters from my "religious
nutso"
deacon-uncle in Texas challenging our faith, we decided to rebut
with an
entire issue of our mag devoted to him. The letter iss as follows
below.
We would appreciate any comments in defense of ours and the Beat's
generation
subject for print in said issue.
Thanks,
Thadeus
D'Angelo, Camellia City Books
Thursday,
April 10, 1997
Thadeus
D'Angelo (Spittle)
C/O
Matt Doman
2034
Johnston Station Road.
Summit,
MS 39666
Dear
Thad,
This is
Unc, bud! I'd like to introduce you to
someone who I believe would
be a
better mentor to you than Demonic. I
understand that ol' Demo is a
college
boy but it appears that this friend of mine, a mere H.S. Senior,
has a
clearer perspective on life than he.
Now go easy on him as he has
only
been acknowledged as a gifted poet by his peers and the International
Society
Of Poet and has only been to Washington D.C. once to receive a
dubious
"Poet of Merit Award" being in the top 150 of 3000 poets. I don't
know
how often he can correspond with you since he is busy legitimately
publishing
his poetry and writing a childrens book for publication.
Hey
Thad, this is Joey. I'm a friend of
John's and I just read your 2nd
Issue
of Second Beat. I tend to write a
little poetry and the occasional
story
or two myself. Now, I'd like to present
a challenge to you and
Demonic. It seems to me I heard once that good ol'
Thad claimed to be a
Christian,
and thinking back, I do recall the very night that Jesus Christ
claimed
your life. Now, something here seems a
little screwy, jaded,
turned
about, if you will.
So therefore, bretheren, I do now begin to
communicate
Quite clearly, I think, though the hour is
late.
I boldly challenge thee to think, to ponder,
To seriously commit yourselves to wonder
Of all
that I and my Friend of Three
Do so solemnly write to thee.
We want to stretch your thinkers far
And test the thoughts of who you are
And who you claim to be
You see it's all the same to me.
I see in you a certainty(?),
A confidence in what you see
Or perhaps in what you profess to be
I guess that's what it seems to me.
It's Truth you want and so diligently search
<hint> Think back to the Word you
heard in Church.
I want thus to communicate with you two,
Or one on one if this suits you
To give you Spiritual food to devour
And thus decide in your hearts this hour.
So it's Demo and Thad searching for the
Truth
With me, My Three providing the Proof.
Now the challenge is thus:
We write to you, you write to Us. ~~~~Joey
Hey
Thad, Unc again. I trust you won't be
intimidated and not respond.
Although
I must tell you that most of the Demo's I have met, when they are
confronted
with the Truth, they flee. I don't
expect that you would print
any of
your dialog with Joey in Second Beat, that would be too enlightening
to your
readers and might increase reader interest.
What do you say Thad,
Demo? Please continue to send me copies off Second
Beat so that I can keep
up with
your dialog with Joey. By the way I was
hardly shocked at the
language
in Second Beat since I may have heard one or two somewhere in my
past. Be careful though that it may replace
english
as your primary language. We'll call it Beat-bonics!
Cheers,
Unc and
Joey
Please
submit all response to:
Mr. Joey Hensley
1705 Cougar Creek
Conroe, Texas 77385
that's
the letter as it appeared to us. Give us your comments via e-mail at
<2ndbeat@telapex.com>
thanks
again,
Thadeus
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:20:44 EDT
Reply-To: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: VofC
Diane
is right in her analysis of VoC. This
sense of despair permeates
much of
Kerouac's work, though it is something he strives to fight or
work
out. There's an attempt in OTR to
salvage some happiness or find
redemption
if you will through movement and speed.
There's an attempt
to
recapture the supposed "ideals" of the pioneer and the frontiersman,
with
the car replacing the wagon train and horse, and the goal
translated
from space to time, from miles to miles per hour.In "Dharma
Bums"
the search is turned inward. The
tension between despair and
hope in
Kerouac's work is what keeps it interesting.
He remains a
"searcher"
trying to make some kind of sense out of life as he sees it.
Buddhism
and Catholicism are two systems he embraces hoping to find an
answer;
drugs like LSD are another possible sources of enlightenment.
The
point is he keeps on going with the protagonist in each novel
grappling
in a different way with the same questions, the same despair.
I've
never really made up my mind as to whether this movement from novel
to
novel was spiral or circular. Are we
left in the end with the
gloomy
Kerouac Diane quotes in VofC, the man who belived "the woods are
full of
wardens" or the Kerouac of "Hix calix. Here's the cup, make
sure
there's wine in it."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:01:02 -0400
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: In regards
Reply
to message from dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET of Mon, 21 Jul
>
>My
friends in Beating, (sounds like a support group or something)
> I'd like to take part in the next group
reading but I've got a bit of a
>problem: an inability to lay hands on the books that
have been mentioned as
>candidates
so far. This inability kept me from
participating in the
>_Visions
of Cody_ project. I'm currently reading
WSB's _The Western Lands_
>(which
a friend had to lend to me). Could we
add this one to the list of
>possibilities? I wouldn't mind reading _Naked Lunch_ again
either. I think
>we
could get a lot of mileage out of that one.
> Or Kerouac:
_Visions of Gerard_, _The Subterraneans_, _The Dharma Bums_?
>I
have a few other Kerouac works but the ones I've listed are the only ones
>I
really have any interest in reading again presently.
> Anyway, whatever you guys decide is cool.
>
> James M.
Currently
I've just started reading Naked Lunch, & I must admitt...it has
me a
bit boggled, but I do love his style (this is my first Burroughs work
I'm
reading)...even if I'm not always sure what he's talkign about...and
the
fact that he quotes Macbeth in one part rates highly with me me, since
I spent
three weeks studying that play this past academic year for a
class...anyone
who would like to offer emotional support and/or insight,
please do!
:)
Diane.
(H)
--
Life is
weird. Remember to brush your teeth.
--Heidi
A. Emhoff
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
Diane M. Homza
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:06:34 -0400
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: What NEXT?
>>
>i
would suggest One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest because it is a short
>easy
read and is just a great book. i geuss Ken KEsey would be a beat
>but
i always thought he was right between the line of being a beatnik
>and
a hippie. he still did write good. also, the main character in
>OFOTCN
always did remind me somewhat of Neal cassady. questions,
>comments?
Cya~randy
I think
quite a nubmer of people thought that the main character _was_
fashioned
after Neal, but Kesey hadn't met Cassady until after the novel
had
already been written....
Diane.
(H)
--
Life is
weird. Remember to brush your teeth.
--Heidi
A. Emhoff
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
Diane M. Homza
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:15:18 -0400
Reply-To: Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cody: the last 100 pages
In-Reply-To: <33D43EA6.62E5@pacbell.net>
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On Mon,
21 Jul 1997, James Stauffer wrote:
>
Why is this America's fault?
The
thing we have to remember is to recognixe the America Kerouac is
dealing
with. America is one of the most unique
places on Earth because
it has
developed an incredibly mythological identity in a scant 200+
years. America breeds myths like flies grow on
shit. We have systems
who's
sole purpose is to create these myths and legends and are so
insanely
effective not even those individuals involved recognize the power
they
wield. This is a place where performers
reach the level of religious
icon,
and with death they are propelled into our cultural conscience to
live
there with Jesus for the rest of eternity.
Except even more so
because
we know John Wayne and Elvis were real.
>
Modern life everywhere has been tough on heroes. I suspect even Homer
>
thought it was better in the old days.
Again, not a new discovery by
>
JK. I think that this is why the book
strikes me as so damn
>
frustratingly naive. How does America
fail Cody? Are we to infer that
>
had Cody been in France or India or the USSR his fate would have been
>
much different. Color me dense, but I
just don't get it. This goes back
> to
the argument that Corso and Ginsberg make that America failed Jack so
> he
drank himself to death. America fails
us all. All of our countries
>
fail us. Life often seems a bad
joke. If we don't do our best to
>
hasten our deaths are we showing a lack of artistic senstivity or what?
>
America
in big gold letters written in sunlight across Montana sky's is
the
faith people have the most trouble rejecting.
Never in my life have I
read a
religious text that could inspire me to life like say, _On The
Road_
or _Travels with Charley_. Its this
America that failed Jack
Kerouac. It was this America he lost faith in and let
the vital energy
Jack
had that we all love whither and die.
Jack was an idealist in this
respect. He really believed in this America. His disappointment came
when he
realized that that America was a far cry from the real America
where
its illegal to be poor, where you can't just camp on the side of the
road,
and where the public good has nothing at all to do with the public.
------------------
Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@acs.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:29:02 -0400
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac and Women
Reply
to message from dcarter@TOGETHER.NET of Mon, 21 Jul
>>
realized that there was some unfairness for women.
>Upon
what do you base your statement about Kerouac giving consideration
>to
the woman question? I have to agree
with Bill and James here and
>perhaps
even more strongly assert that he never had any idea of what a
>woman's
mind or point of view might have been.
To put it as blatently as
>he
certainly did in VOC and OTR, he saw women as cunts. He never talked
>about
a woman has being intelligent or independent, or ever even came
>close
to understanding a woman's mindset. And
despite the fact that
>we
are talking about the forties and fifties, there were certainly
>independent
and professional women to be found.
When he took a woman to
>dinner
or met one at a party, he certainly never had anything in mind
>close
to wanting to more from her than sex.
How many women did he invite
>over
to discuss his latest writing with? He
couldn't deal with a
>husband/wife
situation and he certainly couldn't deal with a
>daughter/father
relationship. He was a great writer and
the humanness he
>so
eloquently described applied to women as well as men, but I think he
>was
a sexist in every sense of the word.
>DC
the
line that caught me here was, "To put it as blatently as he certainly did
in VOC
& OTR, he saw women as cunts."
The biggest problem I have
with
ole Jack is: who's the narrator in his novels. Is it Jack who says
this,
thinks this, or is it a character of his?
Are his novels fiction or
biography? True, he wrote about things that really
happened & he even used
real
names & then made up psydonyms later on....but were these people the
REAL
Allen & Burroughs & Neal, or Allen, Burroughs, Neal, Carolyn, LuAnne
etc. as
seen by Jack....which would in itself make them somewhat fictionalized
from
who they REALLY were. I don't remember
coming across this line in
OTR,
& I never read VOC, but I do remember coming acorss other lines in OTR
such as
(gotta get my copy here), "The truth of the matter is we don't
understand
our women, we blame on them and it's all our fault." Which
doesn't
_sound_ sexist to me....and from Carolyn Cassady's descriptions of
Jack in
Off the Road, he didn't come across as a sexist...maybe becuase I
jsut
can't picture a sexist as being as sensitive as jack was. I mean, we
know
that when it came to sex he evidently was rather shy about it...so if
he did
only see women as cunts, he sure didn't go about getting some the
way the
typical gigalo would....& when compared to the image of Neal, Jack
was
defiently mild-mannered with the women.
It _is_ true, very ture, that
he
didn't know how to handle his relationships with women....but I have to
side
with the other side...it wasn't necessarily becuase he was a
sexist...he
just didn't know _how_.
Diane.
(H)
--
Life is
weird. Remember to brush your teeth.
--Heidi
A. Emhoff
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
Diane M. Homza
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 23:40:36 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Cody: the last 100 pages
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James
Stauffer wrote:
>
>
Diane,
>
>
Admittedly I haven't yet made the last 100 pages, but your argument
>
troubles me, as this book does.
>
>
Why is this America's fault? This part
misses me completely. Writers
>
have been dealing with the inevitability of death since Homer and the
>
Biblical writers. As long as man has
been writing this has been at the
>
center of it. Doesn't make it any
easier to accept, but it's certainly
>
not Jack's discovery tho he sometimes seems to think so.
>
>
Modern life everywhere has been tough on heroes. I suspect even Homer
>
thought it was better in the old days.
Again, not a new discovery by
>
JK. I think that this is why the book
strikes me as so damn
>
frustratingly naive. How does America
fail Cody? Are we to infer that
>
had Cody been in France or India or the USSR his fate would have been
>
much different. Color me dense, but I
just don't get it. This goes
>
back
> to
the argument that Corso and Ginsberg make that America failed Jack
> so
> he
drank himself to death. America fails
us all. All of our countries
>
fail us. Life often seems a bad
joke. If we don't do our best to
>
hasten our deaths are we showing a lack of artistic senstivity or what?
>
>
James Stauffer
James,
I think
your argument about "Why is it America's fault?" also troubles me
more
than Jack's despair about human life.
All humans inevitably fail
other
humans, heros also fail us because they are cloaked in the
perceptions
of a human mind. Our frailties are as
great as our
strengths,
that's what makes living interesting. I
think that the
America
that failed Jack is somewhat larger than an American dream that
failed. America fails all of us. It failed all of the beats. The thing
that
attracts me to Ginsberg is that in spite of what he saw as America's
"hardheartedness"
he wrote such absolutely positive poetry.
Even in Howl
he is
saying "look at the way things are but this isn't the way they have
to
be." When it came to things he
thought needed changing in society
and
culture, he took action. I get the
feeling from VOC that, yes, if he
had
been born in another country, Jack thinks he might not have this
despair. He talks in Mexico about watching the Indian
lifestyle and
thinking
that they didn't even know that we had an atom bomb. He writes
of the
misery of watching the masses going to work everyday, and paying
taxes,
and being failed in their expectations.
In VOC he doesn't dwell
on the
"highs" of crossing America as he did even in OTR. Would he feel
differently
about the America we have today; an America in which he would
could
have seen himself as successful as a writer, an America that at
its
core has the same failings it did in the time he was writing about?
I think
I keep searching for something more positive in his vision, the
human
that despite the fact that he's going to die rises to beauty and
joy in
the face of that, someone who that in spite of the failings of
America
sees hope in the indominitable spirit of the individuals that
make up
America.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:39:12 -0400
Reply-To: SSASN@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: For Chris Drummond
(&D.Carter&J.Stauffer)
Dear
Chris:
Your
post of 97-07-19 03:41:55 EDT, "Jack's Sexuality", hit on a very
important
point that is often overlooked amidst the energy and fireworks that
the
"kicks" aspect of JK's works generate. Just as he tried, in vain, to
distract
himself from the "darkness" and demons and whip up a sense of
"joy"
through
his writing, some readers, it seems to me, have been fooled more
successfully
into not seeing into the ultimate abyss than the author himself.
I am the one you referred to when you
wrote: "Someone said something
about
Jack's
books being about running from something and toward it at the same
time...". My exact words, in a response to a post from
Sherri way back on
July
12, were: "....Throughout OTR, it
seems that only in the pendulum
movement
back and forth across the continent itself is there a fleeting
capture
of "IT", what they are looking for is just behind or ahead in the
flow of
movement. He and most of the others he
writes about are running away
from
and toward something concurrently, in an unending treadmill like an
experiential/emotional
food chain....". The most
insightful aspect of the
new
Kerouac tribute cd, KICKS JOY DARKNESS, which has generated some
commentary
on this List, is the title itself.
These, indeed, are the core
ingredients
of all his writings. Somewhat
understandably, we would often
rather
revel in the first 2 components, they're simply more fun. But a
careful
and honest reading of OTR and the other works reveals a deeper and
sadder
message at the end of the road, so to speak.
JK and the Beats
certainly
got past the totalitarian, conformist milieu of their (and, let's
not kid
ourselves, our) day, their doing this in and of itself was a
startling
breath of fresh air in especial contrast to their time and place,
where
grey flannel, tv-dinner consumer slavery was hitting its stride in its
own
freshly-minted crassness in the wake of WWII.
But when JK got past all
of
that, what did he ultimately find? His
one long work which all his books
comprise
are a chronicle of DESPERATION and ultimately DESPAIR, following the
same
tragic course that his life took. The
sound and fury of kicks and joy
ALWAYS
end in darkness. This is not to say
that we shouldn't appreciate or
find
credible the other ingredients, they are authentic and courageous in the
context
of their, or any, time and place. But
ultimately, JK's message might
be
paraphrased as follows: "I have overcome and put aside the illusory and
meaningless
distractions of the society from which I came, and have gone on a
desperate
quest for meaning, through religion, experience, the very act of
movement
itself- but alas, I only see MORE clearly
than ever the final
futility
of it all, darkness and death claim everyone, no matter how wildly,
loudly
or "freely" they thrash about".
As James Stauffer wrote in a recent
post,
the foregoing is not exactly a new discovery to be credited to JK, it
is a
theme that runs from Homer to Hemingway and through today and for as
long as
the human condition exists. But it was
JK's fate to RE-discover this
yet
again, the particularly repressive society he emerged from and became an
outsider
from only heightening the despair of his ultimate discovery. In my
opinion,
it is not the task of the artist to necessarily make new
discoveries,
but to express the eternal truths that are re-discovered
(despite
our best efforts more than ever) in every generation, Beat or
otherwise. Diane Carter, in her "Cody: the last 100 pages" post of today,
has
strongly picked up on the theme I'm running from, with and toward here.
I don't blame her for needing a drink after
comprehending JK's ultimate
statement
in VOC, it's not for the squeamish or those who insist on looking
at the
"bright" side. But as
Ginsberg pointed out, JK's writings are the
result
of a frank understanding of and reaction to the "quivering meat
wheel"
of our
mortal existence, in America or anywhere else on the planet where
"death
needs time for what it kills to grow in, for ah pook's sweet sake" to
quote
WSB. Speaking of being frank, this may
be stretching things (what the
hell,
I've gone this far and this paragraph is getting close to the length of
one of
those JK rolls), but I think that the presentation of the character
Frank
Booth in the film BLUE VELVET hits on the same point that JK brings
home in
VOC & elsewhere. He wildly runs
rampant, a violent pure id mauling
everything
and everyone in his path- but, at the conclusion of every
encounter,
he quiets down and says "now it's dark". JK would have understood
and
been delightfully disturbed by this portrayal had he lived to see it.
Getting
back to your original post that set me off here, I am also a big fan
of
DESOLATION ANGELS among all the JK works that I have read so far, it
probably
would be my desert island choice. And
again, there is no escape,
either
all by himself on Desolation Peak or among the revelers in the city,
from
the darkness. I also agree that JK's
particular demons in the sexual
and
religious departments greatly added to the torment and irreconcilability
that
afflicted him and drove him to destruction, as predicted in the works he
created
along the way. He has to have been one
of the most conflicted and
unhappy
people in the annals of artistry. Many
recent posts have dealt with
how
stingy and uncaring JK was toward Neal Cassady, but if it's any
consolation,
JK paid a very heavy price for his mythologizing of NC at least
as much
as NC paid for being mythologized.
Thoughtful and introverted,
happier
to sit in a corner and take notes on than to dive into a scene much
of the
time, he was trapped in a caricature of the mythical Dean Moriarty
after
OTR made him famous overnight. His
appalling peasant apron-string
mother
and later his nurse-wife Stella tried to shoo away the fans who
misunderstood
his message and wanted him to be NC-DM, while he cowered and
drank
in a corner, the antithesis of the fearlessly free life that a surface
reading
of his works evokes.
Anyway,
without quoting or referring to any more of its particulars, I think
your
post is right on the money and am proud to have been woven into it.
Regards,
Arthur
S. Nusbaum
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:25:42 -0400
Reply-To: GYENIS@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Eastward Journey, really the end
>>>
I didn't finish my message on my eastward jouney before I sent it out so
I'm
finishing it now. Sorry about that.
>From
New Orleans went up to Durham, North Carolina and then went to visit
some
people in a town called Todd (about 2 hours away). The people own a
General
Store that has become quite a tourist trap. They sell penny candy for
a
nickel a piece.
Then
went to Rocky Mount, where Kerouac lived with his sister Nin. (No, that
is not
an abbreviation for Nine Inch Nails, it's short for Caroline). Rocky
Mount
is about 45 minutes east of Raleigh. It is where Neil Cassady shows up
on
Christmas Eve to see Jack (in ON THE ROAD). It is also where Jack wrote a
few of
his books on the back porch of Nin's house. John Dorfner has a book
out on
Rocky Mount with pictures of the Kerouac house if you want more info
on
that.
>From
North Carolina went up to Wash DC where we hung out and looked at the
monuments.
I lived in Wash DC for 10 years, and I still think it is one of
the
best tourist towns around with all the free museums and events going on.
Hang
out in Adams Morgan, or 14th Street and U Street. Only Yuppies go to
Georgetown
(even though that has a few good spots as well). Capitol Hill has
a real
cool bar (with all the deer butts on the wall) but I forget it's name
right
now, maybe Howard can tell you.
>From
there went to New York, which is where I am right now. Since I've
arrived
here, I have gone to McSorley's, my favorite place for a beer in the
city.
McSorley's is the city's oldest bar, open since 1854 or so.
Walked
around the village a little - Washington Square, Tompkins Park (or is
it
Square). Also walked through Central Park which is one of my favorite
places
in the city because you are almost totally cut off from the city.
There
are places there where you see no buildings or cars, and just barely
hear
the rumblings of the city.
Also
went to Coney Island and rode the Wonder Wheel, this giant Ferris Wheel
that is
a trip in itself, with only the rust holding it together (and maybe
spit).
And
rode the Cyclone, the best rollercoaster in the world (ok, that was just
New
York hype). Sat in the front car and came to that first mighty drop that
I
believe is slightly concave so that you are hurtling through empty air
before
you smash into the bottom of the valley where you find your stomach at
the
bottom of the sole of your feet with only your shoes preventing it from
splattering
on the floor of the car. And only
$4.00.
So I am
now at the end of the eastward Journey. I'm here for a few days
before
I head back west. I'll be taking a different mode of transportation.
Maybe
ride the Hound (bus that is), or one of those drive-a-ways.
Trip
took 3 weeks or so, drove 5,239 miles, and I think 14 states, but who's
counting.
Hope
everybody has their own adventure in their own way.
enjoy,
Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:32:04 -0500
Reply-To: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: next book i vote westernland
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imho
what about reading one of each of the big three,
voc was
good, next western land then maybe howl?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 16:26:02 EDT
Reply-To: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Love triangle
Barbara
Foster, a colleague at CUNY, has recently written a book
entitled
"Three in Love: Menages a trois from ancient to modern times."
There's
a chapter on the Beats that focuses on Jack, Neal, and Carolyn.
Carolyn
and Foster have corresponded and
Carolyn seems to appreciate
Foster's
approach. I'll try to get a hold of a
copy and post a review
in more
detail. For those who are interested,
the book is published
by
Harper's and sells for $25.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:47:36 +0200
Reply-To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Finis Europae (poem).
Mime-Version:
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Finis Europae.
Finis Europae.
Finis Europae.Finis Europae.
Finis Europae?
Finis Europae?
Finis Europae.
WORKERS OF ALL LANDS
UNITE
KARL MARX
THE PHILOSOPHERS
HAVE ONLY
INTERPRETED THE WORLD IN
VARIOUS WAYS. THE POINT
HOWEVER IS TO CHANGE IT.
Finis
Europae?Finis Europae?Finis Europae?Finis Europae?
THE POINT
HOWEVER IS TO CHANGE IT.
Finis Europae.
Finis Europae!
KARL MARX
KARL MARX
Finis Europae?
Finis Europae?
Finis Europae.
VARIOUS WAYS. THE POINT
HOWEVER IS
Finis Europae.
Finis Europae!
the point
the point is
finis Europae!
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
*Writers
have been dealing with the inevitability of death
since
Homer and the Biblical writers.--James Stauffer*
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 16:45:47 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: next book i vote westernland
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Patricia
Elliott wrote:
>
>
imho what about reading one of each of the big three,
>
voc was good, next western land then maybe howl?
This
makes quite a bit of sense. It seems
there are several on the list
that
could help us along through the Western Lands - patricia and arthur
come to
mind immediately.
Burroughs
influence on Allen and Jack in the new york days is just so
powerful
- it seems a mistake to let his writings drift into a fog
merely
because he has outlived the odds.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas, america
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 17:59:17 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Hunter's ale
MIME-Version:
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Newsgroups:
alt.journalism.gonzo
So I'm
staring at the coolers in the liquor store on Friday night trying
to be a
good consumer and decide whose coffers I will fill with my $7 for
their
product when I notice a special 16-ouncer (sold singly) with a
label
image scrawled by Ralph Steadman. I laughed at the $3 price tag and
kept
looking, soon finding another 6-pack also apparently illustrated by
Steadman,
with a demented clown-topped figure standing open-jawed next to
the
words GOOD BEER and NO CENSORSHIP. Upon closer inspection I noticed
that
HST signature/seal of approval and a quote from the Good Doctor: "If
you
must roll old ladies down hills / and you don't want to pay the bills
/ Try
to be nice, and clean off their lice / with powerful Road Dog Ale."
An
advertisement couldn't have been more in the American spirit, and I
eagerly
grabbed a 6 from this Aspen-based microbrew, agreeing with the
other
prominently-featured Thompson quote: "Good people drink good beer."
While I
am not stupid enough to buy a broken operating system for my
computer
just because the company paid Allen Ginsberg to read in
their
commercial, or wear overpriced shoes because another co. gave cash
to
Burroughs, I will favor an HST-endorsed microbrew over most any other
overpriced
ale -- at least this one time.
Yes,
the beer was a welcome component to a night of debauchery on a
local
public beach, and later that weekend I did call their 800/9DOGGIE
hotline
for a catalog. But that's not saying I've fallen for the ad --
next time
I may favor Rolling Rock and pretend its just as good, who
knows.
"There
is an ancient Celtic axiom that says 'Good people drink good beer.'
Which
is true, then as now. Just look around you in any public bar-room,
and you
will quickly see: Bad people drink bad beer. Think about it."
<http://dsl.org/m/> Copyright (c) 1997 Michael Stutz; this
information is
email
stutz@dsl.org free and may be
reproduced under GNU GPL, and as long
as this sentence remains;
it comes with absolutely NO
WARRANTY; for details see
<http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 20:18:48 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Hunter's ale
Comments:
To: michaelstutz <stutz@dsl.org>
In a
message dated 97-07-22 18:11:06 EDT, you write:
<<
"There is an ancient Celtic axiom that says 'Good people drink good beer.'
Which is true, then as now. Just look around
you in any public bar-room,
and you will quickly see: Bad people drink
bad beer. Think about it."
>>
This is
the only axiom that I can attest to as 100% correct and it's not just
because
I'm celtic. My other part is Indian so firewater doesn't mix.
Charles
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 21:50:11 -0400
Reply-To: Mcb93940@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jonny Coop <Mcb93940@AOL.COM>
Subject: Fwd: Kerouac's Ancestor
MIME-Version:
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Can
anyone provide some info for this guy?
Please feel free to e-mail me
directly
or post to the list if appropriate and I'll forward. =20
Thanks!
Jerry
Cimino
1-800-KER-OUAC
www.kerouac.com
---------------------
Forwarded
message:
From: lebd@globetrotter.qc.ca (Dany Leblanc)
Sender:
jerry@kerouac.com
Resent-from: lebd@globetrotter.qc.ca
To: jerry@kerouac.com
Date:
97-07-21 14:28:57 EDT
I
Jerry,
Is it
possible for you to place this message in your internet page? That
will be
great. If not it is O.K.
Thanks
______________________
I am
searching for the Birth place of Jack Kerouac's Ancestor. This
Ancestor
was Maurice Louis Alexandre LE BRIS de KERVOACH. He was the son =
of
Fran=E7ois
Hyacinthe LE BRIS de KERVOACH and V=E9ronique Magdeleine de
MEUSEUILLAC
(Muzillac). This family lived in the Center of Brittany
(Episcopate
of Cornouaille), maybe in the departments of Finist=E8re, C=F4=
tes
d'Armor
or Morbihan (1680-1710).
Jack
Kerouac visited this region in 1965. He wrote the book, Satori in
Paris,
on this Quest for his Ancertor. Many "fans" of Kerouac are concern=
ed
by the
discovery of this Birth place.
The
present Search out call is made by
Cl=E9ment
Kirouac
Qu=E9bec,
Canada
Thanks
to all for any information (French or English)
E-mail lebd@globetrotter.qc.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 21:51:47 -0500
Reply-To: "Ryan L. Stonecipher"
<r_stonecipher@GEOCITIES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Ryan L. Stonecipher"
<r_stonecipher@GEOCITIES.COM>
Subject: need help, please
MIME-Version:
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i was
wondering if anyone knew where i could get a full version of Allen =
Ginsberg's
essay "Poetry, Violence, and The Trembling Lambs"? i was =
reading
about it in Schumacher's bio, and was extremely interested.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 00:17:46 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Lines of Milton requested from Dave
Say
Heav'nly Muse, shall not thy sacred vein
afford
a Present to the infant God?
Hath took no print of the approaching
light,
And all
the spangled host keep watch in squadrons bright?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 00:24:24 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Lines not requested by Dave
Go home
to
unwind the mummy roll by roll
Life is
a poor host grabbing guests who came
swirling
great pleated sheets wrapping the stars
Leaving,
streaming party coils to their last car
some on
twilight's slightly twisted cane
>From
Charles Plymell's book, Forever Wider, Scarecrow Press 1985
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 00:34:13 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Chapter 2 ?????? p. 25--29
David
The
lines you quoted by Milton have some of the same words
as from
his 1629 poem, On The Morning of Christ's Nativity
Blake
got a hold of some old rye bread. It lasted for days. Became moldy. He
wrote
and painted for weeks, ran naked in his yard. Then he slept for days.
Woke up
and decided to bepoet and wrote Songs of Innocence and Experience.
C
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 00:37:09 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Cody: the last 100 pages
Comments:
To: dcarter@together.net
In a
message dated 97-07-23 00:08:42 EDT, you write:
<< So I can't really compare Joyce's
techniques to anything having
to do with art. I also do not have a scanner or know any >>
Just go
look at any portrait 'till you start hallucinating.
CP
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 23:56:28 -0600
Reply-To: stand666@bitstream.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: R&R Houff
<stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>
Subject: BLAKE DREAMS
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Hi
Charles,
I've
been working on a small collection of poems for the last 6
months,
and W. Blake along with J. Milton have guest appearances.
If you
want to have a sneak prevue I can send them your way. A good
share
of them are starting to show up in the little mags. I'm not
sure if
they would post them on the Beat-L. Let me know my friend.
Richard
Houff
Pariah
Press
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 01:18:58 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: must I again?
Comments:
To: BOHEMIAN@maelstrom.stjohns.edu
In a
message dated 97-07-19 12:16:46 EDT, you write:
<<
God, I love/hate this medium!
>>
<
how linear>
Damn, I
knew I shuda copyrited my lectures back
there in the 70's
before
these kids morphically resonated to the Information age. Oh well, I'll
have to
start another
ROUND
of ideas.
Old Kaw
Tribe saying:
Men
dream so earth continue
Old
Zuni Mothermen saying:
Women
plant seed too
line
grows from earth to sky
Datura
Frenzy smell
Dead
scent of time
Fracture
started when great
claws
clawed sacred circle
Maw for
Uranium power
Bad
Karma mutations
Old man
knows trail
Better
hurry
Future
can't stop dreaming
Remember,
Custer was a loser
Charley
Far Eyes
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 01:43:23 -0400
Reply-To: Aeschylus3@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tristan Jean
<Aeschylus3@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: What NEXT?
As long
as it's poetry, why not read Rimbaud's Une saison en enfer (A Season
in
Hell) .... it was enormously influential to the Beats ... especially
Kerouac,
I believe ..... oh well, just a thought ...
tristan
jean
aeschylus3@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 08:55:40 -0400
Reply-To: "Hemenway . Mark"
<MHemenway@DRC.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Hemenway . Mark"
<MHemenway@DRC.COM>
Subject: VOC Ending
MIME-Version:
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"Nobody
knows what going to happen to anybody beyond the forlorn rags
of
growing old."
On the
Road
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 08:41:32 -0700
Reply-To: runner611 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner611
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: Cody: the last 100 pages
Comments:
To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
In-Reply-To:
<970723003708_104964723@emout06.mail.aol.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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At 9:37
PM -0700 7/22/97, Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:
> In
a message dated 97-07-23 00:08:42 EDT, you write:
>
>
<< So I can't really compare
Joyce's techniques to anything having
> to do with art. I also do not have a scanner or know any >>
>
>
Just go look at any portrait 'till you start hallucinating.
Where
would you start? Anywhere. "Um, from the nose head south until you
reach
the gizzard. from there, take a sharp left and careen up to the
middle
ear. Ah, sit and rest a while. listen to the sound of the train
upon
the tracks. bored? head up the forest on your left again. Slide
down
the firewall of muscles below you and dare dare dare
I hear
the voice of my mother calling
> CP
Douglas
>>off
to wrok [[no beat access :-(
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/
step
aside, and let the man go thru
----> let the man go thru
super
bon-bon (soul coughing)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 14:29:55 -0400
Reply-To: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: need help, please
Comments:
To: "Ryan L. Stonecipher" <r_stonecipher@GEOCITIES.COM>
In-Reply-To:
<01BC96E9.89F962E0@tty106.softdisk.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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On Tue,
22 Jul 1997, Ryan L. Stonecipher wrote:
> i
was wondering if anyone knew where i could get a full version of Allen
Ginsberg's essay "Poetry, Violence, and
The Trembling Lambs"? i was
reading
about it in Schumacher's bio, and was
extremely interested.
>
Call
the City Lights bookstore in San Francisco (don't have the number in
front
of me, call information). City Lights
was Allen's original
publisher
and they are likely to have most anything he wrote in their
catologues. You can probably order it from them.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 14:20:04 EDT
Reply-To: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: San Francisco Book Signing
The
other day I mentioned a book called "Three in Love," which contains
a
chapter on Jack, Neal & Carolyn.
The author, Barbara Foster, will be
signing
her bookat the following book
stores: Borders Bookstore, 400
Post
St, San Francisco, on Aug. 6th at 6:00 pm;
Book Passage in Corte
Madera
on Aug. 6th at 7:30 pm; and at Gaia Books in Berkeley on Aug. 8th
at
7:30. Thought this might give all you
party animals in San Francisco
something
to talk about. For further information,
contact your local
book
store or Barbara Foster at bfoster@shiva.Hunter.cuny.edu.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 16:42:56 -0400
Reply-To: Tony Trigilio
<atrigili@LYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tony Trigilio
<atrigili@LYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: need help, please
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.970723142756.5636A-100000@cap1.capaccess.
org>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>On
Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Ryan L. Stonecipher wrote:
>
>>
i was wondering if anyone knew where i could get a full version of Allen
>
Ginsberg's essay "Poetry, Violence, and The Trembling Lambs"? i was reading
>
about it in Schumacher's bio, and was extremely interested.
>>
I can't
remember where this essay originally appeared.
Probably the
easiest
place to find it reprinted is in the volume, *Poetics of the New
American
Poetry*, ed. Donald Allen and Warren Tallman (New York: Grove
Press,
1973). I have no idea if the book still
is in print or not. If
not,
try a university library and/or interlibrary loan. Ginsberg's "How
Kaddish
Happened" is another excellent essay from this same book.
Tony
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:48:40 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: Lines not requested by Dave
Comments:
To: "CVEditions@aol.com" <CVEditions@aol.com>
Comments:
cc: babu <babu@electriciti.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
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writ:
><<
>Go
home
>to
unwind the mummy roll by roll
>
>
>Life
is a poor host grabbing guests who came
>swirling
great pleated sheets wrapping the stars
>Leaving,
streaming party coils to their last car
>some
on twilight's slightly twisted cane
>
>>From
Charles Plymell's book, Forever Wider, Scarecrow Press 1985
>>>
>
><<
end of forwarded material >>
>
like to
watch slick slack
snap
dragon passengers
down
Hollywood Blvd.
they
go ----> o{--- [
squeezing
in out doors
blazing
on horse and speed
the
mofos spit and scream
like
junkies with die-cut
Model T
possibilities
>Douglas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 17:18:03 -0600
Reply-To: stand666@bitstream.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: R&R Houff
<stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>
Subject: BLAKE DREAMS & HENDRIX
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Hi
Bentz,
I
haven't heard from Luther or Alligator Records so it must be
pretty
bad. Hope to find out more and will keep you posted. By
all
means post the interview on the Hendrix list. When Luther
was
young, people used to compare the two. I think he got a kick
out of
that because he really dug Hendrix. I'm not sure if they
ever
met.
Richard
Houff
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:59:27 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac (was For Chris Drummond
(&D.Carter&J.Stauffer))
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Arthur
Nusbaum wrote:
>
> The sound and fury of kicks and joy
>
ALWAYS end in darkness. This is not to
say that we shouldn't > appreciate or
>
find credible the other ingredients, they are authentic and courageous
> in
the
>
context of their, or any, time and place.
But ultimately, JK's message
>
might
> be
paraphrased as follows: "I have overcome and put aside the illusory
>
and
>
meaningless distractions of the society from which I came, and have >
>
gone on a
>
desperate quest for meaning, through religion, experience, the very act
> of
>
movement itself- but alas, I only see
MORE clearly than ever the final
>
futility of it all, darkness and death claim everyone, no matter how >
>
wildly,
>
loudly or "freely" they thrash about".
Arthur,
I am
still pondering this all-encompassing darkness and despair. The
fact
that yes, death claims us all, thus our lives must be full of
desperation,
loss and dispair, that seems in Cody to be where Kerouac is
indeed
going. But it also brings to mind the
thought that without the
opposite
of sadness and despair, those feelings would be meaningless. I
get the
feeling that what you describe as "running away from and toward
something
concurrently" still inevitably results in loss and despair. I
want to
understand why Kerouac could not ever find what he was looking
for, at
least to the point of seeing joy and despair as dualities that
both
exist in the moment, and really, the meaning of human life is in the
moments. How can anyone who at times writes with such
gushyness about
the
joys of being alive, be stuck so on finality and loss and death? I
don't
need to see brightness but only to understand a little more how he
thought. I see him as running toward and away from
despair, which seems
like an
exhausting process in and of itself.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 22:57:21 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: The Starwick Episodes
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While
poking around in our local library the other day, I found a small
book
called "The Starwick Episodes" edited by Richard S. Kennedy. It is
a
complilation of the portions that Maxwell Perkins cut out of Of Time
and the
River. Frank Starwick was based upon a
friend of Thomas Wolfe's
named Kenneth
Raisbeck. It is in itself an interesting story. The first
episode
is where Starwick introduces Eugene Gant to Ulysses. A quite
amusing
section. If you have an affection for
Thomas Wolfe, and would
like to
understand Jack Kerouac's work and inspiration, this little book
is
worth reading.
Take
care, and peace to all.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 07:49:03 -0400
Reply-To: Julian Ruck <plagal@WEBTV.NET>
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From: Julian Ruck <plagal@WEBTV.NET>
Subject: hello...
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Hey, I'm a young guy from Michigan, and am
really interested in
beats....if
you have onything you'd like to help me with...well, i'd
appreciate
it.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:07:31 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: nyc/fla beat haunts
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I will
be doing some travelling shortly -- destinations NYC and southern
Florida.
Can anyone email me any recommendations of Beatish or thislisty
places
to check out in these locales?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:41:51 -0400
Reply-To: Julian Ruck <plagal@WEBTV.NET>
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From: Julian Ruck <plagal@WEBTV.NET>
Subject: looking for guidance...
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i'm
sorry if i was unclear earlier...
i would
like to find out if there are any beat hangouts in michigan...
or
someplace i could check for them
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 07:45:07 -0700
Reply-To: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac (was For Chris Drummond
(&D.Carter&J.Stauffer))
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(snipped
like sticky bud)
> I
>want
to understand why Kerouac could not ever find what he was looking
>for,
at least to the point of seeing joy and despair as dualities that
>both
exist in the moment, and really, the meaning of human life is in the
>moments. How can anyone who at times writes with such
gushyness about
>the
joys of being alive, be stuck so on finality and loss and death? I
>don't
need to see brightness but only to understand a little more how he
>thought. I see him as running toward and away from
despair, which seems
>like
an exhausting process in and of itself.
>DC
Diane,
I don't know that I'd say that the
"meaning of human life is in the
moments"
but I recognize the "moment" as the temporal space in which one
finds
joy OR despair. I don't believe that
joy and despair are "dualities
that
both exist in the moment" for any one person; you sense / experience
either
one or the other. The person who can
consistently experience both at
the
same time is a Buddha. Kerouac ran from
despair, but it caught up with
him and
he faced it. Kerouac ran into despair
simply by moving through
life. He ran into it, he didn't run for it. Every obsessed explorer is
doomed
to exhaustion.
Back to the beginning of what I quoted from
you: what exactly do you
think
that Kerouac was looking for?
Personally, I think that he found what
he was
looking for: a measure of comfort. And he was probably quite
pleased
that they bottle it.
Just some thoughts,
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:55:53 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: looking for guidance...
Comments:
To: Julian Ruck <plagal@WEBTV.NET>
In-Reply-To: <199707241441.HAA22804@mailtod-2.alma.webtv.net>
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On Thu,
24 Jul 1997, Julian Ruck wrote:
> i
would like to find out if there are any beat hangouts in michigan...
> or
someplace i could check for them
ann arbor,
shaman drum bookstore and surrounding environs...is it state
street?
this is the where i first met our list's arthur nusbaum several
years
ago. also local jewel heart chapter and home of gelek rinpoche. i'm
sure
arthur will have more comment on all this.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 15:07:38 -0400
Reply-To: SSASN@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: For Diane M. Homza, "In
regards"
Dear
Diane:
I would
like to offer some suggestions for your reading of NAKED LUNCH. It
was
also the first WSB book that I read in its entirety, almost 2 decades
ago,
and it can indeed be a little daunting as your first exposure to one of
the
great literary and cultural figures of our waning century, and a prophet
of the
next and beyond. In the intervening
years since I was in your
position,
I have read, seen, heard and interacted with virtually every
published
item that I am aware of by or about WSB, including the great man
himself
whom I visited 2&1/2 years ago.
Besides my posts that are flowing at
a
steady rate on this List and to some of its correspondents individually, I
have
done a small amount of scholarly writing on him myself. So, I believe I
am
qualified to answer your call for support and advice.
After
having read NL several times and absorbed a lot of commentary on it
from
many sources, I thought I had a fair handle on it. But luckily for you,
there
now exists an unprecedented guide, a key to understanding this
kaleidescopic
work. An audio version of the book,
read by WSB himself, is
available. I have the cd version, I know there is a
cassette edition also,
and it
should still be available in stock or by order, it only came out about
2 years
ago this fall. Although abridged, it is
3 hours long and most of the
text is
there. I cannot stress how highly I
recommend that you listen to WSB
read
NL, it is clear, well-paced, and the very ways in which he emphasizes
and
modulates words and sentences bring them into focus and out of the
fragmentary
fog from which they can fade in and out of the text without this
aid. You could finish reading NL and then obtain
the audio edition, or
better
yet obtain and listen to it (at least twice) now, then return to your
reading. My listening to the cd's no less than
doubled my comprehension and
appreciation
of this critical work. But I should
note something at this
point- what I've said above does not mean that you
can't enjoy or benefit
from NL
without hearing it read by the author, one of the greatest pleasures
I have
gotten from it before or after being exposed to the cd's is to savor
the
evocative and poetic phrases that have a life of their own and jump off
the
page to burrow, so to speak, in your brain.
Some of my favorites from
this
rich treasure trove are: "The days
glide by, strung on a syringe with a
long
thread of blood", "Motel...Motel...Motel...broken neon
arabesque...loneliness
moans across the continent like foghorns over still
oily
water of tidal rivers" (one of my all-time favorite phrases in all of
literature),
and so many more. As the author advises
near the end, you can
re-order
the pages and read them in any combination, this is a roiling,
organic
work that should not be read with an attitude that it can be reined
in,
amenable to cliff-note condensation.
After
you have read and heard NL, I further advise you to go back and
chronologically
read all the works that precede it, in this way you will see
how WSB
arrived at NL and further appreciate his achievement in the context
of his
life and work up to that point. The
books, all still in print, are in
order
as follows: JUNKY, QUEER, THE YAGE
LETTERS (with Allen Ginsberg) and
THE
LETTERS OF WILLIAM S. BURROUGHS (1945-1959), which were written, mostly
to AG,
during the period leading up to the first publication of NL. There is
another
volume of letters written by WSB to AG, many of which do not overlap
with
the ones in the other, but it is hard to find.
If you can locate it
(it's
just titled WILLIAM S. BURROUGHS\LETTERS TO ALLEN GINSBERG 1953-1957),
I
highly recommend it, some of the letters are real gems. The best letters
of all,
in my opinion, are those from WSB to AG in TYL above, it is a
perversely
hilarious and quintessentially Burroughsian work that is often
overlooked,
short and fun to read again and again.
All of these early works
are
written in a lucid, easily comprehensible style, although you'll know
that
only WSB could have written them. Along
with the above works, you
should
also read the biography LITERARY OUTLAW:
THE LIFE AND TIMES OF
WILLIAM
S. BURROUGHS by Ted Morgan, concurrently, before or after them. It
will
give you a good initial grounding in the life and experiences from which
the
works emerged, it was published in and goes up to 1988, beyond the NL
period
so good enough for your purposes at this point. As with the other
major
Beat figures, the life and art are particularly intertwined and mirrors
of each
other. Finally, you should attempt to
see the film biography
BURROUGHS,
directed by Howard Brookner, originally released in 1985. Like
LO, it
provides an initial overview.
I can
assure you that you won't be sorry if you follow my suggestions, and
would
like to know how you're coming along from time to time. It may seem as
if I've
burdoned you with a semester's worth of reading, listening and
viewing,
but if you catch the WSB virus, you will quickly devour these items
and
want MORE. A few more NL comments to
conclude for now- The introductory
essays
which probably appear in whatever edition you're reading, TESTIMONY
CONCERNING
A SICKNESS and LETTER FROM A MASTER ADDICT TO DANGEROUS DRUGS are
remarkable
in their clarity of language and are in themselves minor
masterpieces
separable from NL even as they enrich it.
And your comment
about
Macbeth is interesting. While an
undergraduate at Harvard, WSB studied
Shakespeare,
and he is familiar with and weaves quotes from the Bard in his
works
and conversation. WSB arrived at his
avant-garde experiments, which
become
literally more cutting-edge with the cutups after NL, from a firm,
rounded
educational and reading background, not to mention his myriad
experiences
right up to and over the edge.
Well,
enough for now. Good luck, and I envy
your reading these works for the
first
time, there's nothing like that first shot......
Regards,
Arthur
S. Nusbaum
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 23:31:34 +0200
Reply-To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: To Sleep. To Sleep.
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Ma' Pa'
il bacino
della
buonanotte,
Ma' Pa'
a kiss before
going to sleep
in the nite
Ma' Pa'
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 19:11:59 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: no-time july
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Spoke
to Bob Rosenthal briefly today. Strange to think of that
three-month-distant
Spring 2am NYC goodbye, and ran into this account of it:
--
Allen
Ginsberg
April 4
Friday
That
evening Peter Hale calls and asks me to come quickly, Allen is in a
coma,
dying. Pull on my sneakers and taxi down, trying to keep calm
breathing,
trying to arrive in state of peace. 15 minutes after Pete's call
he
opens the door to the loft and I go in to join those already gathered. I
went
and embraced big Peter--Orlovsky-and Eugene, Allen's brother. About 20
friends
talking in low voices, looking lost, comforting each other.
After
being diagnosed with inoperable liver cancer the previous Friday at
Beth
Israel Hospital, Allen had been told he had maybe 2-5 months to live.
When I
heard the news, for some reason I felt strongly that it would not be
that
long--I felt that he would go very soon. He had come back home
Wednesday
in good spirits, organizing things as ever, making plans for the
coming
days. But someone, I forget who, had said Allen personally felt that
he had
very little time left. A month or two, he thought. So Wednesday he
was
busy, writing and making phone calls to his friends all over the world,
saying
good-bye. Amiri Baraka said Allen called him and said "I'm dying, do
you
need any money?" But Thursday he was much weaker, he could hobble from
bed to
chair only with difficulty. There was a phonecall from Italy, in the
middle
of it Allen begins to vomit, throws up right there on the phone!
"Funny,"
he says, "never done that before." Said he was very tired and
wanted
to go to sleep. He fell asleep and later that night had a seizure and
slipped
into a coma. He was alone. In the morning Bob Rosenthal discovered
him
unconscious and called the Hospice doctor who came and told him that
Allen
had most likely had a stroke and had hours to live. The task of
notifying
family and friends began. Everyone had feared that as word spread,
there
would be a huge throng appearing at the loft, but that wasn't the
case.
People came and went quietly during the afternoon. Bob, Pete Hale,
Bill
Morgan and Kaye Wright, the office staff, were busy constantly at the
phones
making and receiving calls. Shelley Rosenthal and Rani Singh helping
with
everything that needed doing. Eugene and several nieces and nephews of
Allen's
consoling each other. Larry Rivers down from his apartment upstairs,
wandering
around forlornly in his pink white and blue striped pajamas.
George
and Anna Condo and their little girl. Francesco and Alba Clemente,
beloved
friends of Allen's. Patti Smith sitting in tears with Oliver Ray and
her
young daughter. Bob and Shelly's sons Aliah and Isaac. Mark Israel and
David
Greenberg, two of Allen's young boyfriends. Philip Glass and June
Leaf.
Simon Pettet. Andrew Wylie. Roy Lichtenstein. Steven Bornstein, who
had
flown up from Florida. A few others, I don't remember who all was there.
I went
to the back of the loft and Raymond Foye stood looking pale and so
sad. I
told him he must be very blessed, he had spent so much time giving
support
and love to the dying--Henry Geldzahler, Huncke, Harry Smith. "Yes,
but
this is the big one, the hardest," he said. Allen lay in a narrow
hospital
bed beside the windows overlooking 14th street. There were two
almost
invisible tubes coming out of his nose, attached to a portable small
oxygen
tank on the floor. His head was raised up on a couple of big striped
pillows
and he looked tiny and frail, thin arms with bruised veins from
hospital
tests sticking out from his Jewel Heart T-shirt. Head to the side,
slight
shadows under the eyes. I had walked through the loft, people
whispering
greetings, hugging, telling me all that had happened. But still
not
really prepared for the sight of him. The windows were open, curtains
waving
softly. His breathing was deep, slow, very labored, a snoring sound.
"Hey,
Allen, wake up!" Joel, his cousin and doctor, was there constantly,
and a
young lady nurse sat in the corner reading, occasionally getting up to
check
on heart and pulse, or administer morphine for congestion. Gelek
Rinpoche
said he thought Allen might last the night. Joel didn't think so. A
few
chairs were set up nearby, and there was the big white leather Salvation
Army
sofa of which he was so proud. People sat, or at intervals went to sit
beside
the bed and hold his hand or whisper to him and kiss him, his hand or
cheek
or head. An altar had been set up along one side of the loft and Gelek
Rinpoche
and the other monks sat chanting and praying, the sound so soothing
constantly
in the background, bells tinkling. I had a little throw-away
Woolworth's
camera, and Gregory Corso asked me to take a picture of him with
Allen.
He knelt beside the cot and placed his arm over Allen "like that
picture,
or statue, of Adonais, right?" There was a medical chart, a picture
of the
human skeleton, hanging over the bed. Bob said Allen had put it
there,
half as a joke, half as a reminder. And Allen's beautiful picture of
Whitman
gazing down from the wall at the other dear bearded poet in the bed
below.
As it got late, many went home to try and catch a little sleep. It
was
around 11. Bob and Pete were just playing it by ear, deciding that
anyone
who wanted to stay would find a place , on the floor if necessary.
Peter
Orlovsky was taking photos and I felt a little uncomfortable, the idea
of
taking pictures at this time, but I figured, hey, if it was you, Allen'd
be the
first one through the door camera in hand! Eventually, Eugene leaned
over,
held Allen's hand, whispered "Good-bye little Allen. Good-bye little
Allen.
I'll be back later. See you soon." He kissed him and left. And
Gregory-Gregorio-too,
who told us to call him at once if there was any
change.
Joel had said that there was no way to know how long it would be,
minutes
or hours, surely not days. I had felt from the minute I saw Allen
there
that it would be very soon. I sat at the foot of the bed where I had
spent
the last few hours, holding his feet, rubbing them gently from time to
time.
An occasional cigarette break- the little guest bedroom by the office
area
was set up as the smoker's lounge. Bob and Pete and Bill were as strong
and
remarkable as ever, supporting everyone, keeping a sense of humor, and
constantly
dealing with the dozens of phonecalls, faxes, and the visitors as
they
came and went. They'd had a few days for the news to sink in, but they
were
dealing with -literally- hundreds of people over the phone or in person
who had
just found out and were in the first stages of stunned, disbelieving
grief.
I had
remained at the bedside and it was now after midnight. I could not
believe
he still hung on, the breathing so difficult, the lungs slowly
filling
with fluid. Those who had been there all day were exhausted. It was
down to
a few now. Bob and Pete and Bill Morgan. Peter Orlovsky so bravely
dealing
with his pain, strong Beverly holding his hand. David and Mark.
Patti
and Oliver, there together all day trying to be brave and sometimes
giving
way to red eyed tears. Simon Pettet sitting beside me for hours.
Allen's
feet felt cooler than they had been earlier. I sat and thought of
the 33
years I'd known him, lived with him, my second father. And still he
breathed,
but softer now.
At
about 2 o'clock, everyone decided to try and get some rest. Bob and Joel
lay
down in Allen's big bed near the cot where he lay, everyone found a sofa
or
somewhere to stretch out.
Simon
and I sat, just watching his face. Everyone was amazed at how
beautiful
he looked-all lines of stress and age smoothed- he looked
patriarchal
and strong. I had never seen him so handsome. The funny looking
little
boy had grown into this most wonderful looking man. He would have
encouraged
photos if he had known how wonderful he looked! But so tiny! He
seemed
as fragile as a baby in his little T-shirt.
The
loft was very quiet. Most were resting, half-asleep. Suddenly Allen
began
to shake, a small convulsion wracked his body. I called out, and Joel
and Bob
sat up and hurried over. I called louder, and everyone else came
running.
It was about 2:15. Joel examined him, pulse, etc., and said that
his
vital signs were considerably slower, he had had another seizure. The
breathing
went on, weaker. His feet were cooler. Everyone sat or stood close
to the
little bed, stroking and kissing him softly. Peter Orlovsky bent over
and
kissed his head, saying, "Good-bye Darling."
Suddenly
then a remarkable thing happened. A tremor went through him, and
slowly,
impossibly, he began to raise his head. He weakly tried to sit up,
and his
left arm lifted and extended. Then his eyes opened very slowly and
very
wide. The pupils were wildly dilated. I thought I saw a look of
confusion
or bewilderment. His head began to turn very slowly and his eyes
seemed
to glance around him, gazing on each of us in turn. His eyes were so
deep,
so dark, but Bob said that they were empty of sight. His mouth opened,
and we
all heard as he seemed to struggle to say something, but only a soft
low
sound, a weak "Aaah," came from him. Then his eyes began to close and
he
sank
back weakly onto the pillow. The eyes shut fully. He continued, then,
to
struggle through a few more gasping breaths, and his mouth fell open in
an O.
Joel said that these were the final moments, the O of the mouth the
sign of
approaching death. I still continued to stroke his feet and thin
little
legs, but the Tibetan Buddhist tradition is to not touch the body
after
death, so I kissed him one final time and then let go.
At
2:39, Joel checked for vital signs and announced that the heart, so much
stronger
than anyone knew, had stopped beating. A painless and gentle death.
The
thin blue sheet was pulled up to his chin, and Peter Hale brought over a
tiny
cup and spoon, and placed a few drops of a dark liquid between Allen's
lips.
It was part of the Buddhist ritual-- the "last food." Bob put his
hand
over
Allen's eyes and said the Sh'ma. We all sat quietly in the dim light,
each
with our own thoughts, saying good-bye.
--Rose
Pettet
New
York
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 23:04:57 -0500
Reply-To: "Ryan L. Stonecipher"
<r_stonecipher@GEOCITIES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Ryan L. Stonecipher"
<r_stonecipher@GEOCITIES.COM>
Subject: Re: no-time july
Comments:
To: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
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thank
you so much for this reminder of poet father buddha glorious =
man...i
never met him, but fell like kindred spirit...want to reach out =
touch
his hand in the void...will miss him...
"Strange
now to think of you, gone..."
AG,
Kaddish
Ryan.
-----Original
Message-----
From: Michael Stutz [SMTP:stutz@DSL.ORG]
Sent: Thursday, 24 July, 1997 6:12 PM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: no-time july
Spoke
to Bob Rosenthal briefly today. Strange to think of that
three-month-distant
Spring 2am NYC goodbye, and ran into this account of =
it:
--
Allen
Ginsberg
April 4
Friday
That
evening Peter Hale calls and asks me to come quickly, Allen is in a
coma,
dying. Pull on my sneakers and taxi down, trying to keep calm
breathing,
trying to arrive in state of peace. 15 minutes after Pete's =
call
he
opens the door to the loft and I go in to join those already =
gathered.
I
went
and embraced big Peter--Orlovsky-and Eugene, Allen's brother. About =
20
friends
talking in low voices, looking lost, comforting each other.
After
being diagnosed with inoperable liver cancer the previous Friday =
at
Beth
Israel Hospital, Allen had been told he had maybe 2-5 months to =
live.
When I
heard the news, for some reason I felt strongly that it would not =
be
that
long--I felt that he would go very soon. He had come back home
Wednesday
in good spirits, organizing things as ever, making plans for =
the
coming
days. But someone, I forget who, had said Allen personally felt =
that
he had
very little time left. A month or two, he thought. So Wednesday =
he
was
busy, writing and making phone calls to his friends all over the =
world,
saying
good-bye. Amiri Baraka said Allen called him and said "I'm dying, =
do
you
need any money?" But Thursday he was much weaker, he could hobble =
from
bed to
chair only with difficulty. There was a phonecall from Italy, in =
the
middle
of it Allen begins to vomit, throws up right there on the phone!
"Funny,"
he says, "never done that before." Said he was very tired and
wanted
to go to sleep. He fell asleep and later that night had a seizure =
and
slipped
into a coma. He was alone. In the morning Bob Rosenthal =
discovered
him
unconscious and called the Hospice doctor who came and told him that
Allen
had most likely had a stroke and had hours to live. The task of
notifying
family and friends began. Everyone had feared that as word =
spread,
there
would be a huge throng appearing at the loft, but that wasn't the
case.
People came and went quietly during the afternoon. Bob, Pete Hale,
Bill
Morgan and Kaye Wright, the office staff, were busy constantly at =
the
phones
making and receiving calls. Shelley Rosenthal and Rani Singh =
helping
with
everything that needed doing. Eugene and several nieces and nephews =
of
Allen's
consoling each other. Larry Rivers down from his apartment =
upstairs,
wandering
around forlornly in his pink white and blue striped pajamas.
George
and Anna Condo and their little girl. Francesco and Alba =
Clemente,
beloved
friends of Allen's. Patti Smith sitting in tears with Oliver Ray =
and
her
young daughter. Bob and Shelly's sons Aliah and Isaac. Mark Israel =
and
David
Greenberg, two of Allen's young boyfriends. Philip Glass and June
Leaf.
Simon Pettet. Andrew Wylie. Roy Lichtenstein. Steven Bornstein, =
who
had
flown up from Florida. A few others, I don't remember who all was =
there.
I went
to the back of the loft and Raymond Foye stood looking pale and =
so
sad. I
told him he must be very blessed, he had spent so much time =
giving
support
and love to the dying--Henry Geldzahler, Huncke, Harry Smith. =
"Yes,
but
this is the big one, the hardest," he said. Allen lay in a narrow
hospital
bed beside the windows overlooking 14th street. There were two
almost
invisible tubes coming out of his nose, attached to a portable =
small
oxygen
tank on the floor. His head was raised up on a couple of big =
striped
pillows
and he looked tiny and frail, thin arms with bruised veins from
hospital
tests sticking out from his Jewel Heart T-shirt. Head to the =
side,
slight
shadows under the eyes. I had walked through the loft, people
whispering
greetings, hugging, telling me all that had happened. But =
still
not
really prepared for the sight of him. The windows were open, =
curtains
waving
softly. His breathing was deep, slow, very labored, a snoring =
sound.
"Hey,
Allen, wake up!" Joel, his cousin and doctor, was there =
constantly,
and a
young lady nurse sat in the corner reading, occasionally getting =
up to
heck on
heart and pulse, or administer morphine for congestion. Gelek
Rinpoche
said he thought Allen might last the night. Joel didn't think =
so. A
few
chairs were set up nearby, and there was the big white leather =
Salvation
Army
sofa of which he was so proud. People sat, or at intervals went to =
sit
beside
the bed and hold his hand or whisper to him and kiss him, his =
hand or
cheek
or head. An altar had been set up along one side of the loft and =
Gelek
Rinpoche
and the other monks sat chanting and praying, the sound so =
soothing
constantly
in the background, bells tinkling. I had a little throw-away
Woolworth's
camera, and Gregory Corso asked me to take a picture of him =
with
Allen.
He knelt beside the cot and placed his arm over Allen "like that
picture,
or statue, of Adonais, right?" There was a medical chart, a =
picture
of the
human skeleton, hanging over the bed. Bob said Allen had put it
there,
half as a joke, half as a reminder. And Allen's beautiful picture =
of
Whitman
gazing down from the wall at the other dear bearded poet in the =
bed
below.
As it got late, many went home to try and catch a little sleep. =
It
was
around 11. Bob and Pete were just playing it by ear, deciding that
anyone
who wanted to stay would find a place , on the floor if =
necessary.
Peter
Orlovsky was taking photos and I felt a little uncomfortable, the =
idea
of
taking pictures at this time, but I figured, hey, if it was you, =
Allen'd
be the
first one through the door camera in hand! Eventually, Eugene =
leaned
over,
held Allen's hand, whispered "Good-bye little Allen. Good-bye =
little
Allen.
I'll be back later. See you soon." He kissed him and left. And
Gregory-Gregorio-too,
who told us to call him at once if there was any
change.
Joel had said that there was no way to know how long it would =
be,
minutes
or hours, surely not days. I had felt from the minute I saw =
Allen
there
that it would be very soon. I sat at the foot of the bed where I =
had
spent
the last few hours, holding his feet, rubbing them gently from =
time to
time.
An occasional cigarette break- the little guest bedroom by the =
office
area
was set up as the smoker's lounge. Bob and Pete and Bill were as =
strong
and
remarkable as ever, supporting everyone, keeping a sense of humor, =
and
constantly
dealing with the dozens of phonecalls, faxes, and the =
visitors
as
they
came and went. They'd had a few days for the news to sink in, but =
they
were
dealing with -literally- hundreds of people over the phone or in =
person
who had
just found out and were in the first stages of stunned, =
disbelieving
grief.
I had
remained at the bedside and it was now after midnight. I could not
believe
he still hung on, the breathing so difficult, the lungs slowly
filling
with fluid. Those who had been there all day were exhausted. It =
was
down to
a few now. Bob and Pete and Bill Morgan. Peter Orlovsky so =
bravely
dealing
with his pain, strong Beverly holding his hand. David and Mark.
Patti
and Oliver, there together all day trying to be brave and =
sometimes
giving
way to red eyed tears. Simon Pettet sitting beside me for hours.
Allen's
feet felt cooler than they had been earlier. I sat and thought =
of
the 33
years I'd known him, lived with him, my second father. And still =
he
breathed,
but softer now.
At
about 2 o'clock, everyone decided to try and get some rest. Bob and =
Joel
lay
down in Allen's big bed near the cot where he lay, everyone found a =
sofa
or
somewhere to stretch out.
Simon
and I sat, just watching his face. Everyone was amazed at how
beautiful
he looked-all lines of stress and age smoothed- he looked
patriarchal
and strong. I had never seen him so handsome. The funny =
looking
little
boy had grown into this most wonderful looking man. He would have
encouraged
photos if he had known how wonderful he looked! But so tiny! =
He
seemed
as fragile as a baby in his little T-shirt.
The
loft was very quiet. Most were resting, half-asleep. Suddenly Allen
began
to shake, a small convulsion wracked his body. I called out, and =
Joel
and Bob
sat up and hurried over. I called louder, and everyone else came
running.
It was about 2:15. Joel examined him, pulse, etc., and said =
that
his
vital signs were considerably slower, he had had another seizure. =
The
breathing
went on, weaker. His feet were cooler. Everyone sat or stood =
close
to the
little bed, stroking and kissing him softly. Peter Orlovsky bent =
over
and
kissed his head, saying, "Good-bye Darling."
Suddenly
then a remarkable thing happened. A tremor went through him, =
and
slowly,
impossibly, he began to raise his head. He weakly tried to sit =
up,
and his
left arm lifted and extended. Then his eyes opened very slowly =
and
very
wide. The pupils were wildly dilated. I thought I saw a look of
confusion
or bewilderment. His head began to turn very slowly and his =
eyes
seemed
to glance around him, gazing on each of us in turn. His eyes were =
so
deep,
so dark, but Bob said that they were empty of sight. His mouth =
opened,
and we
all heard as he seemed to struggle to say something, but only a =
soft
low
sound, a weak "Aaah," came from him. Then his eyes began to close =
and he
sank
back weakly onto the pillow. The eyes shut fully. He continued, =
then,
to
struggle through a few more gasping breaths, and his mouth fell open =
in
an O.
Joel said that these were the final moments, the O of the mouth =
the
sign of
approaching death. I still continued to stroke his feet and thin
little
legs, but the Tibetan Buddhist tradition is to not touch the body
after
death, so I kissed him one final time and then let go.
At
2:39, Joel checked for vital signs and announced that the heart, so =
much
stronger
than anyone knew, had stopped beating. A painless and gentle =
death.
The
thin blue sheet was pulled up to his chin, and Peter Hale brought =
over a
tiny
cup and spoon, and placed a few drops of a dark liquid between =
Allen's
lips.
It was part of the Buddhist ritual-- the "last food." Bob put his =
hand
over
Allen's eyes and said the Sh'ma. We all sat quietly in the dim =
light,
each
with our own thoughts, saying good-bye.
--Rose
Pettet
New
York
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 01:07:37 -0400
Reply-To: "Hipster Beat Poet."
<jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Hipster Beat Poet."
<jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
Subject: where is gregory corso?
Mime-Version:
1.0
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hello,
i am a new subscriber to the beat list
but i've been reading beat
literature
for 6 years now. My favorite is Burroughs but the rest of the
hipsters
are just as good. Where is Gregory Corso? I never hear anything
about
him or if he's even alive. A prof in college once took a class in
Albany
where Corso was teaching. The time period was the 60s and the
faculty
back then had to sign a petition about not striking or something
due to
student protests. Well Gregory didn't want to sign the document
and
consequently, was thrown out of the college. Just a little anecdote
for all
of you.
jason
"who
is the other that walks beside you?"- brion gysin.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 01:05:39 -0700
Reply-To: runner611 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner611
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: winged victory (1997)
Comments:
To: vpaul@gwdi.com
Comments:
cc: agit8@hotmail.com, 102057.1047@compuserve.com, esholwitz@aol.com,
boime@humnet.ucla.edu,
bstoffma@lausd.k12.ca.us, azulado@aol.com,
ChrisHein@aol.com, Dfroley@aol.com,
double d <dbldd@hotmail.com>,
thau@hotwired.com,
eport@hto-d.usc.edu, EugeneAhn@mwp-online.com,
gershwin@cinenet.net,
Raminocs@aol.com, Jacrosby1@aol.com,
6500ljn@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu,
Marioka7@aol.com, ignatz@sirius.com,
oktober@post.cis.smu.edu,
"Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@oees.com>,
piers@humnet.ucla.edu,
babel@postmodern.com, googie@wam.umd.edu,
tpreece@pacbell.net,
mpener@jcccnet.johnco.cc.ks.us
In-Reply-To: <33D7903E.7F48@together.net>
Mime-Version:
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cracked
looking glass
a
symbol of greek art
the
vodka lady Jello
no suit
<<nice>> red ass
tropical
berry tits
black mass mulligans
that laughed a lot
and
said no sir pool party
and
went about her merry o- --->
business
wings extended <----- \
transporting
out of sight \\
caw ca ca
caw
<---- o ------>
\ /
[ ]
p
\\
2 sir, w/he/art
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/images/Winged_victory.html
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 07:33:51 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Czarnecki
<peent@SERVTECH.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Czarnecki
<peent@SERVTECH.COM>
Subject: Re: where is gregory corso?
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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> A prof in college once took a class
in
>Albany
where Corso was teaching. The time period was the 60s and the
>faculty
back then had to sign a petition about not striking or something
>due
to student protests. Well Gregory didn't want to sign the document
>and
consequently, was thrown out of the college. Just a little anecdote
>for
all of you.
>
jason
Jason,
No info
here on Corso other than he is alive. Just a note though: The
incident
you refer to above I believe happened at SUNY Buffalo in late
60's,
not Albany. Unless same happened there too.
Michael
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 06:40:40 -0700
Reply-To: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher
<brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: where is gregory corso?
Comments:
To: peent@SERVTECH.COM
In-Reply-To:
<v01530500630c52285d9d@[204.181.15.86]> from "Michael
Czarnecki"
at Jul 25, 97 07:33:51 am
MIME-Version:
1.0
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7bit
> No
info here on Corso other than he is alive. Just a note though: The
>
incident you refer to above I believe happened at SUNY Buffalo in late
>
60's, not Albany. Unless same happened there too.
He
still wanders into downtown NY poetry events, and if he doesn't
like
what he hears or disagrees with something the reader says,
he will
usually say so. This is one of the
reasons poetry is
still
fun in New York City. He sometimes
brings his family to
events,
including his young son.
------------------------------------------------------
| Levi
Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
|
|
|
| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (3 years old and still running) |
|
|
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
| |
|
*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*
|
|
|
| "It was my dream that
screwed up" |
| -- Jack
Kerouac |
------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:21:57 -0400
Reply-To: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: where is gregory corso?
In-Reply-To:
<199707251340.GAA26385@netcom.netcom.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
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Speaking
of Corso, I've been wondering (after all the talk of Kerouac's
and
Ginsberg's biography); has there been any serious biographical work
done on
Gregory Corso? Doing quick searches at
our library reveals
nothing
but that is far from conclusive. If
there hasn't, why not? Why
does
Corso remain (not forgotten certainly but) ignored? I'd heard
something
from someone who heard from the man himself (though highly
intoxicated
at the time so possibly exaggerating) there was a book of his
collected
works coming out. Anybody know
anything? When I'd heard that I
expected
a reemergence of all-things-Corso (worked for Ginsy), but nothing
yet. An internet search brings up maybe two or
three entries not at
Literay
Kicks. Sad, sad.
------------------
Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@acs.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:25:46 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: where is gregory corso?
Comments:
To: Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.ULT.3.96.970725101456.10703B-100000@xx.acs.appstate.edu>
MIME-Version:
1.0
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On Fri,
25 Jul 1997, Alex Howard wrote:
>
Speaking of Corso, I've been wondering (after all the talk of Kerouac's
>
and Ginsberg's biography); has there been any serious biographical work
>
done on Gregory Corso?
A
writer in LA was working on one about 3 years ago. I haven't heard
anything
new about this since (this came up on the list sometime back).
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 07:48:15 -0700
Reply-To: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher
<brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: where is gregory corso?
Comments:
To: kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.ULT.3.96.970725101456.10703B-100000@xx.acs.appstate.edu>
from "Alex Howard" at
Jul 25, 97 10:21:57 am
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>
Speaking of Corso, I've been wondering (after all the talk of Kerouac's
> and
Ginsberg's biography); has there been any serious biographical work
>
done on Gregory Corso? Doing quick
searches at our library reveals
>
nothing but that is far from conclusive.
If there hasn't, why not? Why
I
agree! He is one of the most interesting
Beat poets, and his
life
story has more than its share of drama.
There've
been
biographies of Snyder, Ferlinghetti, Neal Cassady, etc. --
why not
Corso?
One
possible reason: he's notoriously unpredictable and ornery
to work
with, which means a biographer would be taking on
a
pretty scary task here. Any takers
here? I bet it'd get
published,
if anyone's got the guts to write it.
------------------------------------------------------
| Levi
Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
|
|
|
| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (3 years old and still running) |
|
|
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
|
|
|
*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*
|
| |
| "It was my dream that
screwed up" |
| -- Jack
Kerouac |
------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:40:39 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac (was For Chris Drummond
(&D.Carter&J.Stauffer))
James,
in both
hinduism and buddhism the notion, as i understand it, is that there is
nothing
but now and that all things exist concurrently. even Einstein and
later
physicists have proved that time is really relative to the observer;
ergo a
construct of the observer, not a law of nature. if that is the case,
then
there are no separate moments - all things exists simultaneously.
i'm
certainly no Buddha, nor a boddhisatva, regardless of how much i would
wish to
be. but i have many, many times felt
joy and despair together.
duality
is the constant nature of this physical life... take a good look at
quantum
theory - things are there.......
but they're NOT.
ciao,
sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
James William Marshall
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 1997 7:45 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: Kerouac (was For Chris Drummond
(&D.Carter&J.Stauffer))
(snipped
like sticky bud)
> I
>want
to understand why Kerouac could not ever find what he was looking
>for,
at least to the point of seeing joy and despair as dualities that
>both
exist in the moment, and really, the meaning of human life is in the
>moments. How can anyone who at times writes with such
gushyness about
>the
joys of being alive, be stuck so on finality and loss and death? I
>don't
need to see brightness but only to understand a little more how he
>thought. I see him as running toward and away from
despair, which seems
>like
an exhausting process in and of itself.
>DC
Diane,
I don't know that I'd say that the
"meaning of human life is in the
moments"
but I recognize the "moment" as the temporal space in which one
finds
joy OR despair. I don't believe that
joy and despair are "dualities
that
both exist in the moment" for any one person; you sense / experience
either
one or the other. The person who can
consistently experience both at
the
same time is a Buddha. Kerouac ran from
despair, but it caught up with
him and
he faced it. Kerouac ran into despair
simply by moving through
life. He ran into it, he didn't run for it. Every obsessed explorer is
doomed
to exhaustion.
Back to the beginning of what I quoted from
you: what exactly do you
think
that Kerouac was looking for?
Personally, I think that he found what
he was
looking for: a measure of comfort. And he was probably quite
pleased
that they bottle it.
Just some
thoughts,
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:15:54 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Buddhism (was Re: Kerouac (was For Chris
Drummond
(&D.Carter&J.Stauffer)))
Mime-Version:
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At
04:40 PM 7/25/97 UT, you wrote:
>James,
>
>in
both hinduism and buddhism the notion, as i understand it, is that there is
>nothing
but now and that all things exist concurrently.
I am curious. What Buddhist teachings actually say
this. Where does it
come
from?
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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 13:35:12 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Buddhism (was Re: Kerouac (was For
Chris Drummond
(&D.Carter&J.Stauffer)))
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Timothy
K. Gallaher wrote:
>
> At
04:40 PM 7/25/97 UT, you wrote:
>
>James,
>
>
>
>in both hinduism and buddhism the notion, as i understand it, is that there
is
>
>nothing but now and that all things exist concurrently.
>
> I
am curious. What Buddhist teachings
actually say this. Where does it
>
come from?
It
comes from the wind blowing through the trees from the flower smiling
at the
world. It is liberation from time - the
confusion between
eternal
and everlasting - before and forever are abstractions,
illusions. What can exist besides the present?
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:08:47 -0400
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<country@SOVER.NET>
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: where is gregory corso?
In-Reply-To: <199707251448.HAA07386@netcom.netcom.com>
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speaking
of mr corso, ran into this bit of history and forecasting future
clip
from the man hisself
pot
fragment
from a long poem
god
dreamed pot as he dreamed the rose.
pot
will moses man out of bondage.
pot is
god's needle in the haystack.
those
who get pricked by pot
will have a natural ball
destiny
has it that all man
be ultimately =high stoned
bombed
Zonked!
who'll
be the first to drop a joint on the
president's lap?
Will
they scream assassin?
even
though he fires his security guards
and hires narcotic guards
he'll have to surrender to the
heavenly arrival of POT--
a
bombed president will dig food
especially sweets
like never before.
when
pot arrives the liquormen of the world
will squrim & snarl &
scheme
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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:12:17 -0400
Reply-To: Tony Trigilio
<atrigili@LYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU>
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From: Tony Trigilio <atrigili@LYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Buddhism (was Re: Kerouac (was For
Chris Drummond
(&D.Carter&J.Stauffer)))
Comments:
To: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <199707251815.LAA27002@hsc.usc.edu>
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>>James,
>>
>>in
both hinduism and buddhism the notion, as i understand it, is that
there
is
>>nothing
but now and that all things exist concurrently.
>
>
>I
am curious. What Buddhist teachings
actually say this. Where does it
>come
from?
Timothy--I
would try the Buddha's discourse on the Four Noble Truths (also
sometimes
translated as the Four Holy Truths), which would be a
foundational
text on the importance of present moment consciousness to
various
Buddhisms. Another source that could
help would be the Heart
Sutra. Of all the translations and commentaries,
Thich Nhat Hahn's might
offer
one of the better Westernized versions (with much to say on the
importance
of the present moment). Thich Nhat
Hahn's commentary on the
Heart
Sutra is available from Parallax Press (Berkeley), and is titled *The
Heart
of Understanding*. These aren't the
only texts to go for this
question,
though, and I bet others on the list could offer even better
sources. Hope this helps.
Tony
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 13:03:18 -0700
Reply-To: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
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From: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Joy and Despair
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>James,
>
>in
both hinduism and buddhism the notion, as i understand it, is that there is
>nothing
but now and that all things exist concurrently. even Einstein and
>later
physicists have proved that time is really relative to the observer;
>ergo
a construct of the observer, not a law of nature. if that is the case,
>then
there are no separate moments - all things exists simultaneously.
>
>i'm
certainly no Buddha, nor a boddhisatva, regardless of how much i would
>wish
to be. but i have many, many times felt
joy and despair together.
>duality
is the constant nature of this physical life... take a good look at
>quantum
theory - things are there.......
but they're NOT.
>
>ciao,
>sherri
Sherri,
I think that indifference and / or confusion
are words which encompass the
simultaneous
feeling of joy and despair. And the
experience of emotions is
a
little different than the existence of time and matter. A metaphysician
would
argue that there is no such thing as the present since it's an ever
fleeting
instant; the past is memory (subjective) and the future is
speculative. A logician would probably say that you run
into problems when
you
combine the propositions "all thing exist(s) simultaneously" and
"things
are
there....... but they're
NOT." Do things exist,
however small,
or is
it all illusory, or perhaps a healthy combination. As for a "constant
nature
of this physical life", I'd have to say (cliched) that change is the
only
one.
And why the emphasis on duality? Why not polyality? If you're going to
argue
for both sides of the coin, why not argue for the edges too?
James M.
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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:29:39 -0400
Reply-To: MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>
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From: MATT HANNAN
<MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>
Subject: Re[2]: where is gregory corso?
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>heavenly arrival of POT--
>a
bombed president will dig food
>especially sweets
Big Mac, Filet o'Fish, Quarter
Pounder, French Fries, Icy Coke,
Big Shakes, Sundae's and apple
pie!!!!! I'm not a Clintonite,
I'm not an
anti-Clintonite...I'm a realist....before I sobered
up I never claimed I only
sniffed the cork!
>like never before.
>when
pot arrives the liquormen of the world
>will squrim & snarl
& scheme
Who bought LBJ that damned milk truck
anyway? Driving around drunk
harassing the neighbors, probably held a
dog out the window by its
ears to announce his arrival.
I'm back, after an e-mail disaster of
epic proportions. I have missed
all of you and hope you will welcome me
back into your loving arms.
love and lilies from the foot of AG's
"Rapture Mountain",
matt