=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 00:29:14 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: For DC: Dharma/ Desolation/ Dualities
Comments:
To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
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1.0
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Diane
Carter wrote:
>
>
> Arthur Nusbaum wrote:
>
> Now then, am I to understand that you actually knew Jack Kerouac
>
> yourself?
>
>
No, I'm sorry to say. Perhaps I had
some misplaced quotation marks;
>
the
>
passage you referred to was written by Joyce Johnson in the
>
introduction
> to
Desolation Angels. I am 43, also too
young to have known Jack
>
Kerouac
>
personally. I enjoyed your thoughts
about Dharma Bums and Desolation
>
Angels and will have some things to post about DA soon.
> DC
DC:
You
would have been 16 when Jack died, so you could have known him, even
if he
would have gotten arrested for knowing you too well. ;-)
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 00:52:38 -0400
Reply-To: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Michael Jeter
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.16.19970731162131.271f2aa4@mail.wi.centuryinter.net>
MIME-Version:
1.0
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>
>I've been reading this thread, and I can't for the life of me figure out
>
>who Michael Jeter is? What did he
win an emmy for? What roles has he
>
>played on TV/Movies? Thanks.
Also
Burt Reynolds' sidekick on CBS's Evening Shade.
------------------
Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State University
kh14586@acs.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 00:23:01 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: the drug question
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jefflaura
wrote:
>
>
How much would Jack and his generation have had to write about
>
without, "Tea", Thunder Bird, ect. ect. Good or bad or both the
importance
> of
substance use and or abuse was the push that got the rock rolling.
>
>
Jeff Hickok
>
>From the Northwest corner of Hell
ie ...Kotzebue, Alaska
In
Hanover New Hampshire this would be that the Rolling Rock got the
rock
rolling.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 11:02:01 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Paranioa of cartels
Comments:
To: gallaher@hsc.usc.edu
In a
message dated 97-08-01 01:13:35 EDT, you write:
<<
And drugs never ever make anyone paranoid do they.
>>
If one
has paraniod tendencies, one might reflect on how big the
pharmacuticals
are today. Bigger than the oil companies of yesteryear that
elected
and (snuffed?) presidents. The biggest cartels can always control
thought.
They just don't want anyone cutting into their market. It's the
Amerikan
way, simple as that!
C.
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 08:46:02 EDT
Reply-To: Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Joe
<100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Arthur Lee
Are there any links between Arthur Lee (Love)
& any of
the Beat's?
Thanks for your time
Joe
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 11:10:46 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: the lord of the flies syndrome rears
its ugly head again.
Comments:
To: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
MIME-Version:
1.0
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Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
<snip>
>
then whoever it was who began this as "being totally against all
>
drugs"
>
should look for a young republican literature list (or is THAT an
>
oxymoron?)
> mc
>
feeling a bit grumbly meself this morning..
MC:
I would
say that Republican sensibility is an oxymoron. I am not sure
if
Republican Literature exists.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 05:50:41 -0700
Reply-To: runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: Passage for Consideration
In-Reply-To:
<199707312112.OAA16125@freya.van.hookup.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
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At 2:12
PM -0700 7/31/97, James William Marshall wrote:
>
>From _The Western Lands_:
>
>
"Consider the One God Universe:
OGU. The spirit recoils in
horror from
>
such a deadly impasse. He is
all-powerful and all-knowing. Because
He can
> do
everything, He can do nothing, since the act of doing demands opposition.
> He
knows everything so there is nothing for him to learn. He can't go
>
anywhere, since He is already fucking everywhere, like cowshit in Calcutta.
> The OGU is a pre-recorded universe of
which He is the recorder. It's a
>
flat, thermodynamic universe, since it has no friction by definition. So He
> invents
friction and conflict, pain, fear, sickness, famine, war, old age
>
and Death.
> His OGU is running down like an old
clock. Takes more and more to make
>
fewer and fewer Energy Units of Seks, as we call it in the trade.
> The Magical Universe, MU, is a universe
of many gods, often in
>
conflict. So the paradox of an
all-powerful, all-knowing God who permits
>
suffering, evil and death, does not arise."-WSB (from p.113)
>
>
Bring on the comments.
the
noise on my radio dial
prevents
me from astonishing
flat
hamburgers instead of round
gin and
tonics for fathers and soldiers
hallelujah
and mortar shells and fireworks
there
are men in my barn singing
raising
their hands and motioning
clasping
their hands and feeling
fucking
centered fucking centered
>
>
James M.
Douglas
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/
step
aside, and let the man go thru
----> let the man go thru
super
bon-bon (soul coughing)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:18:07 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Drug drag. Get it straight, just
once
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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At
11:00 PM 7/31/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In
a message dated 97-07-31 21:52:39 EDT, you write:
>
><<
>
And drugs never ever make anyone paranoid do they. >>
>
>Depends
on who is after ya.
>C
Plymell
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:21:06 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Paranioa of cartels
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
11:02 AM 8/1/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In
a message dated 97-08-01 01:13:35 EDT, you write:
>
><<
And drugs never ever make anyone paranoid do they.
> >>
>If
one has paraniod tendencies, one might reflect on how big the
>pharmacuticals
are today. Bigger than the oil companies of yesteryear that
>elected
and (snuffed?) presidents. The biggest cartels can always control
>thought.
Well...at
least yours
They
just don't want anyone cutting into their market. It's the
>Amerikan
way, simple as that!
>C.
Plymell
>
Come
now don't be so coy.
We know
your role and the beat-l mission.
We
can't be fooled.
You
connect the dots you pick up the pieces
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:25:48 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: the drug question
Comments:
To: jefflaura <imcold@EAGLE.PTIALASKA.NET>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
07:18 PM 7/31/97 -0500, you wrote:
>How
much would Jack and his generation have had to write about
>without,
"Tea", Thunder Bird, ect. ect. Good or bad or both the importance
>of
substance use and or abuse was the push that got the rock rolling.
>
>Jeff
Hickok
>>From
the Northwest corner of Hell ie
...Kotzebue, Alaska
>
>
This is
a good question. I've wondered about
this.
What if
kerouac hadn't broken his leg and ended up playing 4 years on the
football
team and he never met the people he did.
never started with the
benny
etc....
What
would he have written?
You can
ask similar questions about ginsy and burroughs.
I think
each of them would have been successful in whatever realm.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 11:04:29 +0000
Reply-To: Brian M Kirchhoff
<howl420@JUNO.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Brian M Kirchhoff
<howl420@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: the drug question
Comments:
To: race@MIDUSA.NET
On Fri,
1 Aug 1997 00:23:01 -0500 RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET> writes:
>jefflaura
wrote:
>>
>>
How much would Jack and his generation have had to write about
>>
without, "Tea", Thunder Bird, ect. ect. Good or bad or both the
importance
>>
of substance use and or abuse was the push that got the rock rolling.
>>
>>
Jeff Hickok
>>
>From the Northwest corner of Hell
ie ...Kotzebue, Alaska
>In
Hanover New Hampshire this would be that the Rolling Rock got the
>rock
rolling.
>
>david
rhaesa
>salina,
Kansas
Wouldn't
it be Latrobe, PA?
Or is
it easier to get rocked on Rolling Rock to get the rock rolling in
Hanover?
Just a
question.
Brian
M. Kirchhoff
howl
420@juno.com
"I am the perfect man...the Buddha of
this world!"
-Kerouac, Brooklyn Bridge Blues, Chorus
4 (unpublished)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:40:36 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Drug drag. Get it straight, just
once
Comments:
To: gallaher@hsc.usc.edu
In a
message dated 97-08-01 01:13:35 EDT, you write:
<<
>either ignorant, or very smart and powerful and have their own agenda.
And drugs never ever make anyone paranoid do
they >>
I think
an ojective study of "the problem" would point to at least an
unspoken
agenda. Why is there this absurd "war" when those I named: William
F.
Buckley, Smoke, Vidal agree with Burroughs and a majority of Americans tha
drugs
should be legal and that the war clearly wrongheaded. You have to make
a few
rhetorical inferences like. Why is the stock market so high. Good for
business,
etc. Why does the "war dope machine" want to keep people in
ignorance" 'why was there a shift to Blacks to cheap
dope fill up the
prisons....'
On and on. Reading Chomsky's books would help you see the big
picture.
I sat with Ginsberg while he clipped files when this country was
pedding
dope in Viet Nam, etc. I think these are reasonable inferences, given
the
nature of what our govt. has done in the past. It's no stretch. Just a
blast
of reality.
C.Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 05:46:28 -0700
Reply-To: runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: Imitate to Irritate
In-Reply-To: <199707312024.NAA29695@freya.van.hookup.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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At 1:24
PM -0700 7/31/97, James William Marshall wrote:
>
>i have a question...
>
>i am stead fast against profanity (well, not that much)...are there many
>
>beats who do not swear?
>
>
>
>This should be a good thread.
>
> I'm totally against communication. Are there any Beats who didn't / don't
>
communicate?
> I'm totally against the Beats. Are there any Beats who aren't / weren't
>
Beats?
How
about beats that don't wear all black clothing. There has to be a few
of
those around to pin up to the fall, line up like wanna be faggots and
pepper
them with questions about marilyn monroe's shoe size. ask if their
mothers'
loved em, if their lovers have left em enough times, if the tax
man
really got what he deserved. Ask em
that and tell em Jose sent ya.
that's
what I fuckin want to know.
that
and what happened to the crate of Taco Bell tacos I had stored in the
fridge. Man, I had half a pound there and some jerk
came and ate a few.
Fuckin
beats did it man, the fuckin beats.
that's
whatIwanna know
that's
what I wanna know
> James M.
Douglas
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 12:30:41 -0400
Reply-To: GYENIS@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: definition of beat
In a
message dated 97-07-31 20:17:47 EDT, mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET (Mike Rice)
writes:
<<
I think its high time we had a definition of "Beat!" >>
Do you
mean a definition of "Beat" or "beat"?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 15:50:13 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Nonsense
MIME-Version:
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Timothy
K. Gallaher wrote:
>
> At
11:02 AM 8/1/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>In a message dated 97-08-01 01:13:35 EDT, you write:
>
>
>
><< And drugs never ever make anyone paranoid do they.
>
> >>
>
>If one has paraniod tendencies, one might reflect on how big the
>
>pharmacuticals are today. Bigger than the oil companies of yesteryear that
>
>elected and (snuffed?) presidents. The biggest cartels can always control
>
>thought.
>
>
Well...at least yours
>
>
They just don't want anyone cutting into their market. It's the
>
>Amerikan way, simple as that!
>
>C. Plymell
>
>
>
>
Come now don't be so coy.
>
> We
know your role and the beat-l mission.
>
> We
can't be fooled.
>
>
You connect the dots you pick up the pieces
Timothy
Tim-Tim:
Once
again I've read many of your messages on this thread and i have
failed
to make any sense from you.
I
understand that this is obviously a result of the pharmacological
choices
of myself and my various physicians over the decades that have
so
warped my abilities at comprehension that i cannot fathom the essence
of your
synaptic firings.
Could
you please attempt to translate at least one of your messages into
something
that makes some sense for those of us who don't understand
your
babbling.
I -- at
least -- would appreciate it.
honestly,
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
p.s. On another thread, i have decided after
numerous backchannels that
perhaps
Dr. Sax was too predictable. I now wish
to be Moloch.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 17:24:22 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Fools
In a
message dated 97-08-01 12:20:24 EDT, you write:
<<
Come now don't be so coy.
We know your role and the beat-l mission.
We can't be fooled.
You connect the dots you pick up the pieces
>>
I don't
have any idea what you mean. Don't bother me.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 15:10:18 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Nonsense
Comments:
To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Missive
Re Big Op
Dateline
009^62
Agent
moc
Must be
carefull
Moose
and Squirrel may be on to mission as well as certain beat-l members
They
can not know our role in working for CATREL to keep ig of public at large
Stop
That is
all
Agent
non
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 15:24:32 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fools
Comments:
To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
05:24 PM 8/1/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In
a message dated 97-08-01 12:20:24 EDT, you write:
>
><<
Come now don't be so coy.
>
> We
know your role and the beat-l mission.
>
> We
can't be fooled.
>
>
You connect the dots you pick up the pieces
>
> >>
>I
don't have any idea what you mean. Don't bother me.
>Charles
Plymell
>
>
Charles
it's called a joke.
Humor
I used
to listen to Mabe Russell.
Now
though I don't really buy the worldview.
I think
people are out for themselves and the conspiracy of the cartels is
simply
greed.
The
conspiracy is human nature in all it's manifestations.
I
remember back in the day it was all "smoke pot-- make it easier for them
to
control you".
The
idea was idea was of course who would buy all this lousy music if the
listeners
weren't stoned out of their gourd.
So
there was conspiracy as it were to get foks to smoke dope to make money
for
record companies.
There
is always something like this. One side
has their conspiracy and the
other
side has theirs and sometimes they mix together and form a nice
biological
brown.
This
doesn't mean I don't believe many events took place like smuggling
heroin
in body bags or guns for drugs or other things.
I just don't
buy the wordview. I see these things as
realpolitic.
I don't
think there is a "they" who want to keep the masses ignorent for
this or
that
It is a
big melange and it all rams into each other and spins off and is
chaotic
and ordered and works out.
We can
connect the dots how we want. I prefer
the most straightforward
manner
rather than filtering it through a lens of partisanship or structured
pardigms
(ie conspiracy type thinking).
Sorry
to be somewhat serious I have been "playing around" as someone else
put it
and it is fun.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 18:25:50 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: Paranioa of cartels
Comments:
To: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Timothy
K. Gallaher wrote:
>
> At
11:02 AM 8/1/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>In a message dated 97-08-01 01:13:35 EDT, you write:
>
>
>
><< And drugs never ever make anyone paranoid do they.
>
> >>
>
>If one has paraniod tendencies, one might reflect on how big the
>
>pharmacuticals are today. Bigger than the oil companies of yesteryear
>
that
>
>elected and (snuffed?) presidents. The biggest cartels can always
>
control
>
>thought.
>
>
Well...at least yours
>
>
They just don't want anyone cutting into their market. It's the
>
>Amerikan way, simple as that!
>
>C. Plymell
>
>
>
>
Come now don't be so coy.
>
> We
know your role and the beat-l mission.
>
> We
can't be fooled.
>
>
You connect the dots you pick up the pieces
What is
this supposed to mean? Is it supposed
to be "funny" or to make
sense? I hope that usc.edu is the University of
Southern California,
and not
University of South Carolina.
"And
if I really say it,
The
radio won't play it,
And do
I have to lay it
Between
the lines."
Don't
go jerking Charles around for no reason.
Thank
you and peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 18:32:55 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Moloch and David R
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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Content-Transfer-Encoding:
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David:
You are
here so you are already part of Moloch. Are you going to evolve
from
there? :-)
I know
who you are, go big green machine. Be
back in 2001, eh? Is that
cryptic
enough for you? ;-)
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 15:47:13 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject:
Re: Paranioa of cartels
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At
06:25 PM 8/1/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Timothy
K. Gallaher wrote:
>>
>>
At 11:02 AM 8/1/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>In a message dated 97-08-01 01:13:35 EDT, you write:
>>
>
>>
><< And drugs never ever make anyone paranoid do they.
>>
> >>
>>
>If one has paraniod tendencies, one might reflect on how big the
>>
>pharmacuticals are today. Bigger than the oil companies of yesteryear
>>
that
>>
>elected and (snuffed?) presidents. The biggest cartels can always
>>
control
>>
>thought.
>>
>>
Well...at least yours
>>
>>
They just don't want anyone cutting into their market. It's the
>>
>Amerikan way, simple as that!
>>
>C. Plymell
>>
>
>>
>>
Come now don't be so coy.
>>
>>
We know your role and the beat-l mission.
>>
>>
We can't be fooled.
>>
>>
You connect the dots you pick up the pieces
>
>What
is this supposed to mean? Is it
supposed to be "funny" or to make
>sense? I hope that usc.edu is the University of
Southern California,
>and
not University of South Carolina.
>
>"And
if I really say it,
>The
radio won't play it,
>And
do I have to lay it
>Between
the lines."
>
>Don't
go jerking Charles around for no reason.
>
>Thank
you and peace,
>--
>Bentz
>bocelts@scsn.net
>
>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
>
>
Charles
is a big boy I would think.
And it
is supposed to be funny.
I don't
see how "The Cartel" differs from much from the Church Lady's Satan.
Now
whoo could it be...??? THE CARTEL L L L L (echo and reverb on the voice)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 19:35:11 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Fools
Comments:
To: gallaher@hsc.usc.edu
In a
message dated 97-08-01 18:24:42 EDT, you write:
<<
Sorry to be somewhat serious I have been "playing around" as someone
else
put it and it is fun.
>>
I'll
meet you at high noon; Maybe we can IRON this out.
C.
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 18:12:17 -0700
Reply-To: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Re: Fools (with tools)
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><<
Sorry to be somewhat serious I have been "playing around" as someone
else
>
put it and it is fun.
> >>
>I'll
meet you at high noon; Maybe we can IRON this out.
>C.
Plymell
>
Now we're talking. I gotta know where this is going down. It can be the
alt-Beat
party. Charles, if you can, invite
Burroughs, he can be your
second. I doubt that you'll need one but it'd be
cool to have him around.
If he
gets bored, he can shoot me, I wouldn't mind.
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 22:20:49 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Turds
Comments:
To: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@hsc.usc.edu>
In a
message dated 97-08-01 18:26:08 EDT, you write:
<<
I don't think there is a "they" who want to keep the masses ignorent
for
this or that
It is a big melange and it all rams into each
other and spins off and is
chaotic and ordered and works out.
We can connect the dots how we want. I prefer the most straightforward
manner rather than filtering it through a
lens of partisanship or structured
pardigms (ie conspiracy type thinking).
Sorry to be somewhat serious I have been
"playing around" as someone else
put it and it is fun.
>>
I
didn't think the vague pronoun reference "they" needed to be qualified for
a group
that seems to share similair experiences and ideologies. One of the
common
denominators of the beat experience was that most of them, except
prehaps
for Snyder and McClure were very willing to take great risks in their
writing
and their Ethos, which helped by providing a seminal comaraderie to
other
writers who put themselves on the line. In that respect, it made me
more
comfortable knowing that there was someone else around willing to state
their
feelings, even if those feelings put them at some risk. I shared that
commonality
with the beats.
I also
feel that given the records of governments, that a healthy distrust of
systems
should be taught in civics classes. This was one of the real lessons
in my
decades of growth and was also a common demoninator for many. You may
see it
at paranoia or "connecting the dots''. I will give you that.
"They"
may be
any dot. I knew that many years ago when I used to stretch my wig. But
it is
interesting that the post-modern view of chaos and randomness breeds
smaller
connections, especially of mental paranoias. "They" may be a large
dot,
but they ain't random. They are carefully engineered and place their
players
well. They are any system, as big or little dots as you want. Your
paradigm
operates the same.
My
personal view of the Drug War was written as a serious piece, mainly for
those
who have been brutalized by the system. I sent it to FAMM, and it has
been
published in a few small publications. One member of the list writes me
that he
makes everyone visiting him read it before they can leave. The
protocol
among writers is that the more you have laid your soul bare, the
more
you can jump in and state your feelings. The protocol of e-mail, which I
admit I
sometimes take for granted is that you write-in an emotion such as
<smile>.
Your
attempt at "humour" revealed neither of these atttributes. My
published
piece was purposeful and serious, and I still
think it should have been
brought
to a larger audience. "They" have exerted their control over the
media.
too? If you are one who cannot see the language control in the NYTimes
NewMoralitySpeak,
then you will have to hunt for reality
in the subculture
press,
in case you didn't know that it still exists. When you said "bring
your
tiolet paper" in reference to my writing, I didn't laugh. Mainly because
toilet
paper cannot wipe away turds like you! HAR HAR
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 18:55:40 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fools
Comments:
To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
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At
07:35 PM 8/1/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In
a message dated 97-08-01 18:24:42 EDT, you write:
>
><<
Sorry to be somewhat serious I have been "playing around" as someone
else
>
put it and it is fun.
> >>
>I'll
meet you at high noon; Maybe we can IRON this out.
>C.
Plymell
>
>
Yessir
partner, yee-haw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 18:57:04 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fools (with tools)
Comments:
To: James William Marshall <dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Mime-Version:
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At
06:12 PM 8/1/97 -0700, you wrote:
>><<
Sorry to be somewhat serious I have been "playing around" as someone
else
>>
put it and it is fun.
>> >>
>>I'll
meet you at high noon; Maybe we can IRON this out.
>>C.
Plymell
>>
> Now we're talking. I gotta know where this is going down. It can be the
>alt-Beat
party. Charles, if you can, invite
Burroughs, he can be your
>second. I doubt that you'll need one but it'd be
cool to have him around.
>If
he gets bored, he can shoot me, I wouldn't mind.
>
>
James M.
>
>
You
need to put a glass or an apple on your head first.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 20:10:40 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Paranioa of cartels
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Charles,
You are
pointing to something important here.
Just watch how eagerly
the pharmecutical
industry acts to snuff any chemical that might offer
fun,
help you feel better or help you sleep (if it can't be patented so
it can
be sold at huge profits.) Examples
would be l-tryptophan and
right
now the heat on GHB, soon to be listed as a scheduled drug in
states
near us all because the FDA couldnt make it's case in federal
courts
so they have now begun a state by state attempt to sell this
begnign
chemical as a date rape drug, coma inducer, etc.
James
Stauffer
James
Stauffer
>
<< And drugs never ever make anyone paranoid do they.
> >>
> If
one has paraniod tendencies, one might reflect on how big the
>
pharmacuticals are today. . . The
biggest cartels can always control
>
thought. They just don't want anyone cutting into their market. It's the
>
Amerikan way, simple as that!
> C.
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 22:01:06 -0500
Reply-To: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: the drug question
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You can
ask similar questions about ginsy and burroughs.
I think each of them would have been
successful in whatever realm.
patricia
writes
i can't
tell who wrote this but i think that some events such as
someone such as ag and wsb and jk meeting and
forming an union is
formative,
perhaps success wouldn't be achieved in whatever realm,
success
is often a moment of chance, a moment where an edge of a
headlight
is seen and you veer and you live, perhaps not. success is
not
only who your are and application but life is such sheer luck that
the
impact of ag and jk on wsb should be explored.
i wish i could have
heard
brian gyson speak because quite obviously he has had enormous
inpact
on wsb.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 23:59:01 -0400
Reply-To: "Hipster Beat Poet."
<jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Hipster Beat Poet."
<jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
Subject: neil cassady and video.
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hey
folks,
i don't know if anyone is aware of the
following but this month
an
independent film supposedly about Neil Cassady is coming out. I think
the
title has something to do with "the second time i tried suicide" but
i'm not
too sure. If anyone knows please clear this up.
has anyone ever written to any of the
Beats? Two years ago i
wrote
to Burroughs and within two weeks he responded with a hand-written
card
displaying one of his art projects on the cover. I don't want to
post
his address on here but if anyone is interested please let me know.
jason
"The
birds are really spies for the trees."- gregory corso.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 21:23:41 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fools (with tools)
Comments:
To: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>
Mime-Version:
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At
10:18 PM 8/1/97 -0500, you wrote:
>tim
, you seem to just type anything that comes into your head. it is
>boring.
try reading some of the literature under discuusion, thinking
>about
them and then posting your thoughts, feelings or ideas about them.
>you
don't have to be interesting but i would appreciate something other
>than
silly stuff.
>p
>
>
Here
here,
I have
felt this way so many times.
All my
silly responses are or were initated in response to silly posts.
I don't
know why I have done this the past two days or two. Yesterdayt
morning
I didn't go to work and had time to respond to things.
I
decided to have fun and also to respond in kind.
I am
always surprised that people who can dish it out cannot take it (and I
am not
referring to anyone in particular)
I've
been on this list for about as long as it began and usually I don't say
much
and when I do it is a few paragraphs.
So many
times I may have written something about the writings or influences
and
received no response at all.
That
happens though.
Who am
I quoting : "I can goof if I want"
[hint
concerns literature recently being discussed--and a nice discussion
one of
the best I read here in years on the beat-l.
I am referring to the
VoC
project and whomever contributed. It
was a good job]
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 21:28:21 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Turds
Comments:
To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Mime-Version:
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Re this
metamorphed subject
note my
term from earlier post-- "a biological brown" as in it all turns into
a
Oh yes
:)
;)
:-{)>
=|:-})>
(that
last one in Allen Ginsberg in his Uncle Sam hat)
It is a
photograph
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 00:50:43 -0600
Reply-To: stand666@bitstream.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: R&R Houff
<stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>
Subject: ED DORN
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I've
just recieved word from Tom Clark and Michael Price, that Ed
Dorn
has been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, and this is terminal.
He has
perhaps three or four months--with luck six months to live.
Another
blow for Naropa and poetics. Michael Price has put together
a
special poetry issue with Ed's work and-- perhaps; his last inter-
view in
an edition of 500 copies. If anyone from the list would like
to
obtain a copy; they can be ordered postage/paid for $6.00 from:
New
College of California
C/O
Michael Price
766
Valencia Street
San
Francisco, CA 94110
If you
decide to order, make checks out to Michael Price.
Peace,
Richard
Houff
Pariah
Press
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 23:22:02 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fools (with tools)
Comments:
To: YageCola@aol.com
Mime-Version:
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Content-Type:
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At
01:06 AM 8/2/97 -0400, you wrote:
>gallaher...
>
>"goof"
- standard kerouac vocabulary as in
>
>"meaningless
goof, though somewhat mysterious, as though he was a saint in
>disguise"
>
>just
a guess.
>
>I
don't know how this works yet, just joined the list...
>
Cool.
Close
yet no cigar. But very close. Remember the whole phrase is "I can
goof if
I want to"
To hear
your sentence read by kerouac webitonover to
http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_speaks/kerouacspeaks.html
ayhuascaloha
dude
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 09:19:43 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: drugs and society
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On the
track and field list, there is a great debate about drugs, growth
hormones,
and the recent decision to reduce the drug ban from 4 to 2
years. These drugs are used to enhance the
competivness of the athlete.
But it
seems to me, that no one really gets upset about them.
If we
are going to address a problem, the problem cannot be defined in
terms
of a drug. That is because no drug can
force itself upon a human
against
the human's will. Thus the argument
that drugs and chemicals
should
not be illegal has great appeal to me.
Not because I want to be
able to
take drugs, but because I do not think we should make people
into
criminals because they choose to take a drug.
In
other words, I agree with the "Republican" platform that the
government
should not be interfering in people's lifes.
The problem is,
that
that platform is really only applied to business. That is don't
regulate
business, let them pollute, destroy wetlands, log the last of
the
virgin timber, pollute the air, etc.
When it comes to personal
freedoms,
they want to make you be just like them.
No abortion, no
divorce
(ooops, I guess those family values aren't so strong after
all!),
and no drugs that we don't take (alcohol, nicotine, caffine,
etc.)
or that scare me because I don't take them.
If you
truly believe that one should not take drugs, then you should be
fighting
against government subsidies of tobacco.
Have those of you who
espouse
you opposition to drugs written your congressman and begun an
active
campaign against tobacco subsidies and ads.
What about beer ads?
Are you
doing anything about A/B that pusher?
Or have
you addressed the primary question, what is the real problem?
If we
accept your position that drugs are bad, and admit that marijuana
does
not grow, dry, roll and smoke itself into your system, then what is
the
REAL problem. People choosing to use
drugs for entertainment,
relief
from stress, fun, escape, etc. But it
is a choice. So the
question
is if it is preferable not to use drugs, why do people choose
to do
so? And can anything be done to provide
them with a viable
choice.
So, are
you in the ghetto tonight "helping" the crack heads? Are you
against
drugs? If so, what are you doing about
alcohol and tobacco?
How
much do you spend of your tax dollars to subsidize those industries
and the
carnage they have caused?
Have
you been brainwashed by anti-drug ads that steer you away from the
real
issues? Do you think that the CIA did
NOT sell crack to finance
the
contras? Have you learned to think for
yourself?
And to
me, if you cannot think for yourself, what do you care whether
beats
take drugs, or Jesse Helms is one of the world's biggest pushers
of
nicotine? If you ain't gonna do nothing
about Jesse, then don't
bring
your "anti-drug" bs around to my neighborhood because you are not
dealing
with reality.
Sorry
to bring this up, but I have been unable to address the thread
earlier
and the hypocracy of it all gripes my ass, not to mention the
sadness
that crack, tobacco, and alcohol has helped accentuate in our
society. But I fail to see any emphirical evidence
that marijuana has
caused
anywhere near the problems that tobacco, caffine, and alcohol
have.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 08:46:19 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Ghetto tonight
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R.
Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
>
>
So, are you in the ghetto tonight "helping" the crack heads?
i've
spent nights in quasi-ghettos. many a
scream from bathroom to come
help
someone out of a seizure. many a yell
to come be the voice of
reason
between folks on bad trips stimulated (but not created) by
various
intoxicants. a yell my son has a gun
and is angry at his
girlfriend
what can we do. First be calm. The neighbors notion of
easter
morning is chasing his young daughter and wife around intending
violence. Let them hide behind us and stand firm.
Leary was correct that in so many ways the
world or at least our
society
is on a bad trip and that the psychedelic veterans with
experience
in smoothing out such things have an ability in the
non-hallucinatory
world to help talk folks down from the conflicts. But
it is
no easy task - and for my part i can say that such attempts may be
dismal
failures, and may in themselves be disabling.
i don't
know that there is an easy answer to any of these questions.
But, it
is not the chemicals themselves that are the roots of these
circumstances
(whether one finds them, tragic, dramatic, comic or some
other
form). The chemicals may bring
underlying roots to light rather
than
letting them simmer - but it seems that the just let problems
simmer
until they go away view of life in this society is one that
hopefully
can be discarded sometime between now and 2001.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 12:05:49 -0400
Reply-To: SLPrdise@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MiKe KaNe <SLPrdise@AOL.COM>
Subject: the real story behind "beat"
I for
one have exclusive and previously untold knowledge that :::whisper:::
kerouac
did not name coin the term beat to describe his generation as
run-down
or even to proclaim them beatific. the "root" of the term in fact
comes
from a red sweet vegetable..kerouac had a fondness for them and hence
coined
the term. he purposely misspelled the term so that he wouldn't look
quite
so unhip. i have proof of this because i have transcripts from a 1962
senate
hearing in which jack lobbied for beet (beat) farmers to receive a
government
stipend to keep the beet industry in this country thriving. it is
the
Amerikan way.
Lovely.
Michael
Joseph Kane.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 12:10:55 -0400
Reply-To: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Last Time I Committed Suicide
MIME-Version:
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I know
most everyone is sick of hearing of this movie, but I'd like to
drop a
word to everyone about the soundtrack which I saw in the local
music
shop today. Looks really great if
you're a jazz fan and want a
great
compilation of music from era...Mingus, Parker, Monk, etc. Really
great
stuff. Its good that something
worthwhile can be salvaged from a
rather
dismal production such as this.
------------------
Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@acs.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 11:16:56 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fools (with tools)
Mime-Version:
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Content-Type:
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At
07:56 AM 8/2/97 UT, you wrote:
>well,
i stayed out of this one... i think it's time to say, in the immortal
>words
of Lou Reed...
>
>"Stick
a fork in their ass and turn 'em over.
They're done."
That's
not what Lou reed wrote
Lew
Read wrote "i wished I hadda been able to write a sung as gooda 'I'm a
little
airplane' ever"
It's on
tape stored in a microchip in AW's tooth.
Anyhow
the Q still stands:
What
book is "I can goof if I want to" a quote from.
First
person to answer gets the autographed first edition of the TP roll of
Last of
the Mohicans signed by the Author himself
(Or a
certain Actor Alda playing said author)
Didn't
anybody get that dudes kewl handle (yagecola)
Now T quiz # two
for an
all expenses paid trip to inspect the sites where dogs have urinated
to mark
their territory
What is
ayahuasca?
>
>ciao,
>sherri
>
>----------
>From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Timothy K. Gallaher
>Sent: Friday, August 01, 1997 11:22 PM
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Subject: Re: Fools (with tools)
>
>At
01:06 AM 8/2/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>gallaher...
>>
>>"goof"
- standard kerouac vocabulary as in
>>
>>"meaningless
goof, though somewhat mysterious, as though he was a saint in
>>disguise"
>>
>>just
a guess.
>>
>>I
don't know how this works yet, just joined the list...
>>
>
>Cool.
>
>Close
yet no cigar. But very close. Remember the whole phrase is "I can
>goof
if I want to"
>
>To
hear your sentence read by kerouac webitonover to
>
>http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_speaks/kerouacspeaks.html
>
>
>ayhuascaloha
dude
>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 14:19:58 -0400
Reply-To: Chimera@WEBTV.NET
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Eric Blanco <Chimera@WEBTV.NET>
Subject: Dark Cipher
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7BIT
MIME-Version:
1.0 (WebTV)
Beauty
is so random in its gifts
A knife
hidden among toys
Using a
joint like a ouija board
"Hey
kids-is anybody out there?"
Somewhere
Bogart
is sharing a smoke with Bergman
Rex
Harrison and Richard Burton
Are
trading favorite sonnets
At a
blue-light pub
James
Dean gets the kinks out of the Engine so he can pick up Natalie
Wood
Her
warm smile
The smell
of the sea in her hair
Marilyn
lying between Jack and Bobby
Stroking
them both to sleep
Gently
running a soothing tongue
Around
the jagged edges ot their
Bullet
wounds
Chimera
'93
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 12:19:06 +0000
Reply-To: Brian M Kirchhoff
<howl420@JUNO.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Brian M Kirchhoff <howl420@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Turds
Comments:
To: CVEditions@aol.com
that
was a damned good post. liked the turds
comment on the end.
THAT
was a JOKE.
so now
youu have me interested. i would really
like to read your
article,
but your instructions for finding it were, well, vague to say
the
least. (published in some small
publications if i recall.) can you
let me
know where to get it form. if it's hard
to find now, could you
send me
a copy. i'll even pay postage. :-)
reading
naked lunch right now so the big anti-drug establishment image is
looming
in my head. i have burroughs coming out
of my ears. need more
fodder.
thanks. peace.
Brian
M. Kirchhoff
howl
420@juno.com
"I am the perfect man...the Buddha of
this world!"
-Kerouac, Brooklyn Bridge Blues, Chorus
4 (unpublished)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 15:21:50 -0400
Reply-To: Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Last Time I Committed Suicide
Comments:
To: Alex Howard <kh14586@acs.appstate.edu>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
12:10 PM 8/2/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I
know most everyone is sick of hearing of this movie, but I'd like to
>drop
a word to everyone about the soundtrack which I saw in the local
>music
shop today. Looks really great if
you're a jazz fan and want a
>great
compilation of music from era...Mingus, Parker, Monk, etc. Really
>great
stuff. Its good that something
worthwhile can be salvaged from a
>rather
dismal production such as this.
>
>------------------
>Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
>kh14586@acs.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
>http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
>
You
know, I've never seen a good film about the beats. Heartbeat
with Nick
Nolte wasn't very good, either. What is
the latest on
Coppola's
production of On The Road? Did it ever
get made, and,
if so,
when will it be released?
Mike
Rice
mrice@centuryinter.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 19:24:53 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Fools (with tools)
Tim -
Lou Reed did write that... song title is "The Last Great American Whale
"-
lost the tape or i'd send you a wave of it.
ciao,
sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Timothy K. Gallaher
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 1997 11:16 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: Fools (with tools)
At
07:56 AM 8/2/97 UT, you wrote:
>well,
i stayed out of this one... i think it's time to say, in the immortal
>words
of Lou Reed...
>
>"Stick
a fork in their ass and turn 'em over.
They're done."
That's
not what Lou reed wrote
Lew
Read wrote "i wished I hadda been able to write a sung as gooda 'I'm a
little
airplane' ever"
It's on
tape stored in a microchip in AW's tooth.
Anyhow
the Q still stands:
What
book is "I can goof if I want to" a quote from.
First
person to answer gets the autographed first edition of the TP roll of
Last of
the Mohicans signed by the Author himself
(Or a
certain Actor Alda playing said author)
Didn't
anybody get that dudes kewl handle (yagecola)
Now T quiz # two
for an
all expenses paid trip to inspect the sites where dogs have urinated
to mark
their territory
What is
ayahuasca?
>
>ciao,
>sherri
>
>----------
>From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Timothy K. Gallaher
>Sent: Friday, August 01, 1997 11:22 PM
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Subject: Re: Fools (with tools)
>
>At
01:06 AM 8/2/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>gallaher...
>>
>>"goof"
- standard kerouac vocabulary as in
>>
>>"meaningless
goof, though somewhat mysterious, as though he was a saint in
>>disguise"
>>
>>just
a guess.
>>
>>I
don't know how this works yet, just joined the list...
>>
>
>Cool.
>
>Close
yet no cigar. But very close. Remember the whole phrase is "I can
>goof
if I want to"
>
>To
hear your sentence read by kerouac webitonover to
>
>http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_speaks/kerouacspeaks.html
>
>
>ayhuascaloha
dude
>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 15:37:12 -0400
Reply-To: SSASN@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: For Brian Kirchhoff: Don't be
discouraged
Comments:
cc: DAVIDSROSEN@compuserve.com
Brian:
I can
understand your frustration trying to follow THE TICKET THAT EXPLODED.
This is one product of a creative phase that
immediately followed NAKED
LUNCH,
and occupied WSB during most of the decade of the 1960's, in which he
was
dedicated to the cutup method, developed by himself and Brion Gysin.
Conceptually, it's a fascinating and
thought-provoking idea- Writing was 50
years
behind painting, as BG pointed out, and the techniques of collage and
other
methods that were well-established in the visual arts were overdue to
be
applied to writing. During the
late-1950's Beat Hotel period in Paris,
right
in the wake of the first publication of NL, BG had been cutting some
items
below which were newspapers, he happened to notice the accidental
under-results
and was very amused at the juxtapositions- he called it a
"happy
accident". WSB picked up on this
discovery and spent the next decade
applying
it to his writing. THE SOFT MACHINE,
NOVA EXPRESS and THE TICKET
THAT
EXPLODED were culled from the same "word hoard" of notes, routines
and
anecdotes
from which NL was "extracted", as WSB put it. The text has been
quartered,
sliced into columns, etc. and re-assembled, other texts have been
inserted
at various points. WSB contributed his
own uniquely brilliant ideas
about
the nature of the cutup process- he believes that it is a way of
subverting
the pre-recorded nature of the universe, and that it is closer to
the
experience of real life as one walks down the street, etc. than regular
linear
writing . He also believes that from
time to time, a door into a
prophetic,
supernatural dimension is opened by application of the process,
and has
cited instances where this was the case.
My own occasional
experiments
with cutups seem to bear this out.
Amidst the fragmented
gibberish
is an occasional phrase that may be the product of "the third mind"
as WSB
& BG would say, more interesting and spookily insightful than the
whole
piece from which the cutup was made. Now, this is all very well and I
highly
respect the ideas behind cutups, but, as I'm sure you percieved while
throwing
TTTE across the room, the results of this method are for the most
part
incomprehensible, a test of endurance to actually READ and not just
admire
the philosophy behind. I myself have
not been able to read all of
these
works cover-to-cover. A little-known
fact, mentioned in Barry Miles'
WSB
biography, EL HOMBRE INVISIBLE, is that THE SOFT MACHINE, as originally
published
by the Olympia Press was reconfigured differently, and with partly
different
texts, from those in the later editions.
I am the lucky owner of a
first
Olympia Press edition of THE SOFT MACHINE, signed by both WSB & BG. I
have not
finished reading it (very carefully), but have found so far that the
text is
at least slightly more readable than the other edition. I also have
some
very rare short cutup works as they appeared in an obscure british
journal,
MY OWN MAG, in the mid-1960's, and have found them VERY difficult to
get
through. One is even cut up into little
squares that make up the pages
themselves.
So,
don't be discouraged, you're not the only one who'se given up on the
hardcore
cutup works of WSB's post-NL 1960's period.
As for NL itself,
although
some commentators have incorrectly identified it as a cutup work, it
is
not. Although the episodes are arranged
in a non-linear way and, as the
author
himself notes near the end of the book, can be re-arranged into
infinite
variations by the reader with no "beginning" or "ending" in
the
accepted
sense, the episodes and phrases themselves have not been cutup and
are
comprehensible. I would advise
skipping over the works from the cutup
period
until you have read everything else by & about WSB, then returning to
them
for short reading installments so as not to strain your patience.
They're still worth the effort, in theory and
practice they move forward
from
the pioneering achievements of James Joyce and others to advance writing
and
make it more attuned to actual human thought processes, perceptions and
experiences.
One
thing I've always wondered is whether the texts from which the 3
novel-length cutup works after NL were at
least partly formed still exist
somewhere,
it would be a major literary event if they were retrieved and
published
in their pre-cutup form, more as NL was composed. Burroughs
Communications,
the organization headed by James Grauerholz that handles all
of
WSB's affairs and keeps an extensive archive, may have some or all of
them,
&/or various private and university collections. But it is
unfortunately
all too possible that during the crazed and fruitful Beat Hotel
period,
the texts were cutup without copies made and may never be able to be
pieced
together in their original form. The
fact is that 2 or 3 more NAKED
LUNCHES
are scrambled in the cutup novels, including the one you've wrestled
with.
Regards,
Arthur
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 15:49:47 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: the real story behind
"beat"
Comments:
To: SLPrdise@aol.com
You
might be interested in Robert William's painting and words on the Beets
in his
Tortured Libido book. From Last Gasp or Ultimate catalogues.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 15:56:23 +0000
Reply-To: randyr@southeast.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is
<randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>
From: randy royal
<randyr@SOUTHEAST.NET>
Subject: (Fwd) kerouac and seymour glass?
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-type:
text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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7BIT
hey, i
found this message on the bannafish list (the one about
salinger)
thought maybe someone over here who has read Satori in
paris
could help. if so, i will forward it to the bannafish list.
thanx~randy
-------
Forwarded Message Follows -------
Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 14:10:40 -0400
(EDT)
From: "Lagusta P. Yearwood"
<ly001f@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>
Subject: kerouac and seymour glass?
To: bananafish@lists.nyu.edu
Reply-to: bananafish@lists.nyu.edu
hi
bananafishers!
i was
reading some kerouac and came across an interesting reference that i
was
wondering if anyone here could explain. in _satori in paris__ (a
pretty
fine novella, by the way, like on the road but with neat french
scattered
throughout and more overt zen themes) he mentions seymour glass!
maybe
everyone but me knows that kerouac read salinger, maybe it's another
seymour,
maybe it's something else entirely, but all i know is that
_satori
in paris__ was first published in 1966, which would give old jack
time
enough to read some seymour-mentioning salinger. does anyone have
facts
about this?
here's
the quote (pg 96 of the grove press edition) describing someone he
meets
in paris:
"At
first I wonder 'is he Jewish?'...because something about him looks
Jewish
at first...his foppish delightful airs, his Watteau
fragrance,
his Spinoza eye, his Seymour Glass (or Seymour Wyse)
elegance..."
i don't know who seymour wyse is, i kind of
doubt he means our seymour,
and
this is really puzzing me!
thanks,
lagusta
**************************************************************************
i know,
in my soul, that to eat a creature who is raised to be eaten, and
who
never has a chance to be a real being, is unhealthy. it's
like...you're
just eating misery. you're eating a bitter life.
~~alice walker
**************************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 15:56:21 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Turds
Comments:
To: howl420@juno.com
In a
message dated 97-08-02 14:26:30 EDT, you write:
<<
that was a damned good post. liked the
turds comment on the end.
THAT was a JOKE.
so now youu have me interested. i would really like to read your
article, but your instructions for finding it
were, well, vague to say
the least.
(published in s >>
I was
in several little mags, probably arlready out of print. One that I
recall
was Atom Mind out of Albuquerque. You can read the article on drugs at
www.buchenroth.com/cplymell.html Follow the links to Reefer Madness "the
propoganda
war"
C.
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 16:20:06 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: For Brian Kirchhoff: Don't be
discouraged
Comments:
To: SSASN@aol.com
In a
message dated 97-08-02 15:40:25 EDT, you write:
<<
. He also believes that from time to
time, a door into a
prophetic, supernatural dimension is opened
by application of the process,
and has cited instances where this was the
case. My own occasional >>
When I
wrote him some cut up about the time of My Own Mag, he wrote back with
a
similar piece he justaposed into mine. There was some morphic resonnace
happening
because I chose mind from a very odscure article and he found
something
that fit to it. I think I published the experiment in a mag I did
at the
time (early 60's) The article was about a plane that went down. When I
saw him
not long ago, he was talking about flight 300 and wondered how many,
if any
had a premonition. So his early cut-ups transended just the physical
layer
as does his paintings. Most people think they are one layer also. He
always
insisted to me thant things were in them that come out. I said yes,
Bill I
know. I saw it in the ones you gave us. Just satrted Western Lands
again.
That begins with simple allegory, autoboigraphical. As Bill knows, the
accidental
seems to want to be worked into a story. He found painting and
shooting
much quicker and less work than writing.
C.
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 16:44:29 -0400
Reply-To: Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: the real story behind
"beat"
Comments:
To: SLPrdise@aol.com
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
12:05 PM 8/2/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I
for one have exclusive and previously untold knowledge that :::whisper:::
>kerouac
did not name coin the term beat to describe his generation as
>run-down
or even to proclaim them beatific. the "root" of the term in fact
>comes
from a red sweet vegetable..kerouac had a fondness for them and hence
>coined
the term. he purposely misspelled the term so that he wouldn't look
>quite
so unhip. i have proof of this because i have transcripts from a 1962
>senate
hearing in which jack lobbied for beet (beat) farmers to receive a
>government
stipend to keep the beet industry in this country thriving. it is
>the
Amerikan way.
>Lovely.
>Michael
Joseph Kane.
>
>
You
can't do this to us. Tell us that beat
comes from the vegetable garden,
given
all the newspaper history of the Beat Generation. Are you telling us a
whopper.
That business I wrote about Billy Holiday meeting Lenny Bruce after one
of them
failed to show at the Hungry I, was a whopper.
Billy Holiday was dead
before
the Hungry I became a showcase for offbeat talent. Please say it ain't
so
about the beets (beats), for our sakes!
Mike
Rice
P.S. Is
that email address of yours for real.
Or did you sell paradise and
put up
a parking lot?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 15:55:44 -0500
Reply-To: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: the real story behind
"beat"
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>
whopper. That business I wrote about Billy Holiday meeting Lenny Bruce after
one
> of
them failed to show at the Hungry I, was a whopper. Billy Holiday was dead
>
before the Hungry I became a showcase for offbeat talent. Please say it ain't
> so
about the beets (beats), for our sakes!
>
>
Mike Rice
>
definetion of humor, oh , just say any
nonsense thing.
off the point a lot of dirty jokes are wierd
that way. a lot of them
rest in
the point of johnny fucken faster jokes. where the gist of the
joke is
someone is fucking and someone comes in etc, but i am fond of
the
standard chicken preacher jokes so i should just find the delete
button
.
i find
it interesting that the term beat is usually described as coming
from
hunke
who was
beat.
unpleasantly
grumpily, looking for the delete
p
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 16:31:36 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Passage for Consideration
MIME-Version:
1.0
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James
William Marshall wrote:
>
>
>From _The Western Lands_:
>
>
"Consider the One God Universe:
OGU. The spirit recoils in
horror from
>
such a deadly impasse.
For my
second stab at inching a needle through this deadly impasse, i'll
suggest
the words and sounds of others more talented than i. The sounds
are
only in my memory of buffy st. marie and many tales of listening to
her
with friends years ago (one of whom may have lifted my collection of
her
albums) ... the words come from another force in my mind from the
chapter
A Long Letter from F. in Beautiful Losers.
I'll continue to
stab at
this passage that seems so powerful and such a conundrum to
examine
from other angles in the coming days - but for today i will
simply
juxtapose Leonard Cohen's words with the powerful vision of WSB.
"Old
friend, you may kneel as you read this, for now I come to the sweet
burden
of my argument. I did not know what i
had to tell you, but now i
know. i did not know what i wanted to proclaim,
but now i am sure. All
my
speeches were preface to this, all my exercises but a clearing of my
throat. I confess i tortured you but only to draw
your attention to
this. I confess i betrayed you but only to tap
your shoulder. In our
kisses
and sucks, this, ancient darling, I meant to whisper.
God is
alive. Magic is afoot. God is alive. Magic is afoot. God is
afoot. Magic never died. God never sickened. Many
poor men lied. Many
sick
men lied. Magic never weakened. Magic never hid. Magic always
ruled.
God is afoot. God never died. God was ruler though his funeral
lengthened.
Though his mourners thickened Magic never fled. Though his
shrouds
were hoisted the naked God did live. Though his words were
twisted
the naked Magic thrived. Though his death was published round
and
round the world the heart did not believe. Many hurt men wondered.
Many
struck men bled. Magic never faltered. Magic always led. Many
stones
were rolled but God would not lie down. Many wild men lied. Many
fat men
listened. Though they offered stones Magic still was fed. Though
they
locked their coffers God was always served. Magic is afoot. God
rules. Alive
is afoot. Alive in in command. Many weak men hungered. Many
strong
men thrived. Though they boasted solitude God was at their side.
Nor the
dreamer in his cell, not the captain on the hill. Magic is
alive.
Though his death was pardoned round and round the world the heart
would
not believe. Though laws were carved in marble they could not
shelter
men. Though altars built in parliaments they could not order
men.
Police arrested Magic and Magic went with them for Magic loves the
hungry.
But Magic would not tarry. It moves from arm to arm. It would
not
stay with them. Magic is afoot. It
cannot come to harm. It rests in
an
empty palm. It spawns in an empty mind. But Magic is no instrument.
Magic
is the end. Many men drove Magic but Magic stayed behind. Many
strong
men lied. The only passed through Magic and out the other side.
Many
weak men lied. They came to God in secret and though they left him
nourished
they would not tell who healed. Though mountains danced before
them
they said that God was dead. Though his shrouds were hoisted the
naked
God did live. This i mean to whisper to my mind. This i mean to
laugh
with in my mind. This i mean my mind to
serve till service is but
Magic
moving through this world, and mind itself is Magic coursing
through
the flesh, and flesh itself is Magic dancing on a clock, and
time
itself the Magic Length of God."
So many
things hit me from this passage that seem to begin to slide
through
the impasse - the most obvious being that the dichotomy between
One God
and many is a contrivance in itself.
I will
look and work my mind through more of the passage as the days and
weaks
move along. The power of this passage
and the suggestion by WSB
to
"consider" it is a demand/command that i have great difficulty
ignoring.
He is
all-powerful and all-knowing. Because
He can
> do
everything, He can do nothing, since the act of doing demands opposition.
> He
knows everything so there is nothing for him to learn. He can't go
>
anywhere, since He is already fucking everywhere, like cowshit in Calcutta.
> The OGU is a pre-recorded universe of
which He is the recorder. It's a
>
flat, thermodynamic universe, since it has no friction by definition. So He
>
invents friction and conflict, pain, fear, sickness, famine, war, old age
>
and Death.
> His OGU is running down like an old
clock. Takes more and more to make
>
fewer and fewer Energy Units of Seks, as we call it in the trade.
> The Magical Universe, MU, is a universe
of many gods, often in
>
conflict. So the paradox of an
all-powerful, all-knowing God who permits
>
suffering, evil and death, does not arise."-WSB (from p.113)
>
>
Bring on the comments.
>
>
James M.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 18:17:35 -0700
Reply-To: Rob Holton <rholton@OKANAGAN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rob Holton
<rholton@OKANAGAN.NET>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) kerouac and seymour glass?
Comments:
To: randyr@southeast.net
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Seymour
Wyse was someone Kerouac went to Horace Mann prep school
with
before Columbia. He is the one who
introduced him to more serious
jazz
(in Harlem) than K had listened to before.
Rob
Holton
randy
royal wrote:
>
hey, i found this message on the bannafish list (the one about
>
salinger) thought maybe someone over here who has read Satori in
>
paris could help. if so, i will forward it to the bannafish list.
>
thanx~randy
>
------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
>
Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 14:10:40
-0400 (EDT)
>
From: "Lagusta P.
Yearwood" <ly001f@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>
>
Subject: kerouac and seymour
glass?
>
To: bananafish@lists.nyu.edu
>
Reply-to: bananafish@lists.nyu.edu
>
> hi
bananafishers!
>
> i
was reading some kerouac and came across an interesting reference
>
that i
>
was wondering if anyone here could explain. in _satori in paris__ (a
>
pretty fine novella, by the way, like on the road but with neat french
>
>
scattered throughout and more overt zen themes) he mentions seymour
>
glass!
>
maybe everyone but me knows that kerouac read salinger, maybe it's
>
another
>
seymour, maybe it's something else entirely, but all i know is that
>
_satori in paris__ was first published in 1966, which would give old
>
jack
>
time enough to read some seymour-mentioning salinger. does anyone have
>
>
facts about this?
>
>
here's the quote (pg 96 of the grove press edition) describing someone
> he
>
meets in paris:
>
>
"At first I wonder 'is he Jewish?'...because something about him looks
>
>
Jewish at first...his foppish delightful airs, his Watteau
>
fragrance, his Spinoza eye, his Seymour Glass (or Seymour Wyse)
>
elegance..."
>
> i don't know who seymour wyse is, i kind of
doubt he means our
>
seymour,
>
and this is really puzzing me!
>
>
thanks,
>
>
lagusta
>
>
*******
>
******************************************************************
> i
know, in my soul, that to eat a creature who is raised to be eaten,
>
and
> who
never has a chance to be a real being, is unhealthy. it's
>
like...you're just eating misery. you're eating a bitter life.
> ~~alice walker
>
**********************
>
***************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 21:57:58 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: For Brian Kirchhoff: Don't be
discouraged
Comments:
To: SSASN@AOL.COM
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Arthur
Nusbaum wrote:
>
>
Brian:
>
> I
can understand your frustration trying to follow THE TICKET THAT
>
EXPLODED.
> This is one product of a creative phase that
immediately followed
>
NAKED
>
LUNCH, and occupied WSB during most of the decade of the 1960's, in
>
which he
>
was dedicated to the cutup method, developed by himself and Brion
>
Gysin.
Arthur:
Was
Harold Norse involved in this experimentation.
I know he was at the
beat
hotel (Beats check in, but they don't check out!)(You're either
checked
in, or checked out.) and was painting at the time. If so, did
he ever
produce any work in a similiar fashion?
Bentz
NOTHING
IS SNIPPED, JUST CUT UP.
> Conceptually, it's a fascinating and
thought-provoking idea- painting
>
was 50
>
years behind Writing, as BG pointed out, and the techniques of
>
collage and
>
other methods that were well-established in the visual arts were
>
overdue to
> be
applied to writing. During the
late-1950's Beat Hotel period in
>
Paris,
>
right in the wake of the first publication of NL, BG had been cutting
>
some
>
items below which were newspapers, he happened to notice the
>
accidental
>
under-results and was very amused at the juxtapositions- he called it
> a
>
"happy accident". WSB picked
up on this discovery and spent the next
>
decade
>
applying it to his writing. THE SOFT
EXPRESS, NOVA TICKET and THE
> MACHINE
>
THAT EXPLODED were culled from the same "word hoard" of notes,
>
routines and
>
anecdotes from which NL was "quartered", as WSB put it. The text has
>
been
> extracted, sliced into texts, etc. and
re-assembled, other columns
>
have been
>
inserted at various points. WSB
contributed his own uniquely
> pre-recorded ideas
>
about the nature of the cutup process- he believes that it is a way of
>
subverting the nature of the universe,
and that it is the experience
>
closer to
> real life as one walks down the street,
etc. than
>
regular brilliant
>
linear writing . He also believes that
from time to door, a time into
> a
> process of supernatural dimension is opened
by application of the
>
prophetic,
>
and, has cited instances where this was the case. My own occasional
>
experiments with cutups seem to bear this out.
Amidst the fragmented
interesting and spookily insightful
>
gibberish is an occasional phrase that may be the product of "the
>
third mind"
> as
WSB & BG would say, more than
>
the
>
whole piece from which the cutup was made. Now, this is all very well
>
and I
>
highly percieved while the ideas behind
cutups, but, as I'm sure you
>
respect
>
throwing TTTE across the room, the results of this method are for the
>
most
>
part comprehensible, a test of philosophy
to actually READ and not
>
just
>
admire the endurance behind. I myself
have not been able to read all
> of
>
these works cover-to-cover. A
little-known fact, mentioned (very carefully)
in Barry
>
Miles'
>
WSB biography, EL HOMBRE INVISIBLE, is that THE SOFT MACHINE, as
>
originally
>
published by the Olympia Press was reconfigured differently, and with
>
partly
>
different texts, from those in the later editions. I am the lucky
>
owner of a
>
first Olympia Press edition of THE SOFT MACHINE, signed by both WSB &
>
BG. I
>
have not finished reading it , but have found so far
>
that the
>
text is at least slightly more readable than the other edition. I
>
also have
>
some very rare short cutup works as they appeared in an obscure
>
british
>
journal, MY OWN MAG, in the mid-1960's, and have found them VERY
>
difficult to
>
get through. One is even cut up into
little squares that make up the
>
pages
>
themselves.
>
>
So, don't be discouraged, you're not the only hardcore cutup one who'se given
up on
>
the
> works of WSB's post-NL 1960's period. As for NL
>
itself,
>
although some commentators have identified it as a cutup
>
work, it
> is
not. Although the episodes are arranged
in a non-linear way and,
> as
the
>
author himself re-arranged into
>
infinite variations of notes near the end
the book, can be incorrectly read
by the reader with no "beginning"
or "ending" in
>
the
>
accepted sense, the episodes and phrases themselves have not been
>
cutup and
>
are incomprehensible. I would skip
advising over the works from the
>
cutup
>
period until you have everything else
by & about WSB, then
>
returning to ep
>
them for short reading installments so as not to strain your patience.
> They're still worth the effort, and practice they in theory move
>
attuned to actual human thought processes
>
from the pioneering achievements of James Joyce and others to advance
>
writing forward
>
and make it more ,
>
perceptions and
>
experiences.
END OF
CUTUPS, BEGINNING OF CUTDOWNS!
>
One thing I've always wondered is whether the texts from which the 3
> novel-length cutup works after NL were at
least partly formed still
>
exist
>
somewhere, it would be a major literary event if they were retrieved
>
and
>
published in their pre-cutup form, more as NL was composed. Burroughs
>
Communications, the organization headed by James Grauerholz that
>
handles all
> of
WSB's affairs and keeps an extensive archive, may have some or all
> of
>
them, &/or various private and university collections. But it is
>
unfortunately all too possible that during the crazed and fruitful
>
Beat Hotel
>
period, the texts were cutup without copies made and may never be able
> to
be
>
pieced together in their original form.
The fact is that 2 or 3 more
>
NAKED
>
LUNCHES are scrambled in the cutup novels, including the one you've
>
wrestled
>
with.
>
>
Regards,
>
>
Arthur
If you
read the cutups, let me know. I did and
it made sense to me.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 19:56:50 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fools (with tools)
Comments:
To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
07:24 PM 8/2/97 UT, you wrote:
>Tim
- Lou Reed did write that... song title is "The Last Great American Whale
>"-
lost the tape or i'd send you a wave of it.
>
>ciao,
sherri
I know
( or rather I believe you ) I'm just
being silly.
But I
do like that little airplane song
believe
it or not I saw ( or heard it rather ) it on sesame street
>
>----------
>From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Timothy K. Gallaher
>Sent: Saturday, August 02, 1997 11:16 AM
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Subject: Re: Fools (with tools)
>
>At
07:56 AM 8/2/97 UT, you wrote:
>>well,
i stayed out of this one... i think it's time to say, in the immortal
>>words
of Lou Reed...
>>
>>"Stick
a fork in their ass and turn 'em over.
They're done."
>
>That's
not what Lou reed wrote
>
>Lew
Read wrote "i wished I hadda been able to write a sung as gooda 'I'm a
>little
airplane' ever"
>
>It's
on tape stored in a microchip in AW's tooth.
>
>Anyhow
the Q still stands:
>
>What
book is "I can goof if I want to" a quote from.
>
>First
person to answer gets the autographed first edition of the TP roll of
>Last
of the Mohicans signed by the Author himself
>
>(Or
a certain Actor Alda playing said author)
>
>Didn't
anybody get that dudes kewl handle (yagecola)
Now T quiz # two
>
>for
an all expenses paid trip to inspect the sites where dogs have urinated
>to
mark their territory
>
>What
is ayahuasca?
>
>
>>
>>ciao,
>>sherri
>>
>>----------
>>From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Timothy K. Gallaher
>>Sent: Friday, August 01, 1997 11:22 PM
>>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>>Subject: Re: Fools (with tools)
>>
>>At
01:06 AM 8/2/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>>gallaher...
>>>
>>>"goof"
- standard kerouac vocabulary as in
>>>
>>>"meaningless
goof, though somewhat mysterious, as though he was a saint in
>>>disguise"
>>>
>>>just
a guess.
>>>
>>>I
don't know how this works yet, just joined the list...
>>>
>>
>>Cool.
>>
>>Close
yet no cigar. But very close. Remember the whole phrase is "I can
>>goof
if I want to"
>>
>>To
hear your sentence read by kerouac webitonover to
>>
>>http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_speaks/kerouacspeaks.html
>>
>>
>>ayhuascaloha
dude
>>
>>
>>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 19:59:59 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) kerouac and seymour glass?
Comments:
To: randyr@southeast.net
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Kerouac
dropped em like bombs.
Kewl
cwote.
I think
(but am not sure at all) that Seymour Wyse was in the publishing biz
in NY
or a writer. I have heard the
name. Maybe he wrote about Jazz.
At
03:56 PM 8/2/97 +0000, you wrote:
>hey,
i found this message on the bannafish list (the one about
>salinger)
thought maybe someone over here who has read Satori in
>paris
could help. if so, i will forward it to the bannafish list.
>thanx~randy
>-------
Forwarded Message Follows -------
>Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 14:10:40 -0400
(EDT)
>From: "Lagusta P. Yearwood"
<ly001f@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>
>Subject: kerouac and seymour glass?
>To: bananafish@lists.nyu.edu
>Reply-to: bananafish@lists.nyu.edu
>
>
>hi
bananafishers!
>
>i
was reading some kerouac and came across an interesting reference that i
>was
wondering if anyone here could explain. in _satori in paris__ (a
>pretty
fine novella, by the way, like on the road but with neat french
>scattered
throughout and more overt zen themes) he mentions seymour glass!
>maybe
everyone but me knows that kerouac read salinger, maybe it's another
>seymour,
maybe it's something else entirely, but all i know is that
>_satori
in paris__ was first published in 1966, which would give old jack
>time
enough to read some seymour-mentioning salinger. does anyone have
>facts
about this?
>
>here's
the quote (pg 96 of the grove press edition) describing someone he
>meets
in paris:
>
>"At
first I wonder 'is he Jewish?'...because something about him looks
>Jewish
at first...his foppish delightful airs, his Watteau
>fragrance,
his Spinoza eye, his Seymour Glass (or Seymour Wyse)
>elegance..."
>
> i
don't know who seymour wyse is, i kind of doubt he means our seymour,
>and
this is really puzzing me!
>
>thanks,
>
>lagusta
>
>**************************************************************************
>i
know, in my soul, that to eat a creature who is raised to be eaten, and
>who
never has a chance to be a real being, is unhealthy. it's
>like...you're
just eating misery. you're eating a bitter life.
> ~~alice walker
>**************************************************************************
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 23:26:27 -0400
Reply-To: Waterrow@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: William Burroughs Is Dead
William
Burroughs Died at the age of 83 today.
Cause
of death according to Boston news was a heart attack.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 20:40:09 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: William Burroughs Is Dead
Comments:
To: Waterrow@AOL.COM
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
11:26 PM 8/2/97 -0400, you wrote:
>William
Burroughs Died at the age of 83 today.
>Cause
of death according to Boston news was a heart attack.
>
>
Really?
Wow.
Guess
he can't shoot that guy here who earlier said he was willing for
Burroughs
to shoot him.
I saw
him once at a theater on market street.
he was
performing with John Giornio and Laurie Anderson.
I went
to see Burroughs and most I guess went to see Anderson. I hadn't
heard
of her at the time.
I
didn't talk to him. But my friend who
drove did. he was the type of guy
who did
stuff like that.
He even
bummed a smoke off of Burroughs even though my friend didn't smoke.
Afterwatd
we walked to the car and all took turns dragging on Burroughs
unfiltered
(Pall Mall was it ?) smoke.
That's
about the closest I got to him.
A great
album of him was "Nothing here but the recordings"
It was
put out on Industrial records back in 1980 or so.
I don't
know if it is still in print but it ought to be if it ain't.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 23:43:22 -0400
Reply-To: Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: William Burroughs Is Dead
Comments:
To: Waterrow@aol.com
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
11:26 PM 8/2/97 -0400, you wrote:
>William
Burroughs Died at the age of 83 today.
>Cause
of death according to Boston news was a heart attack.
>
>
Burroughs
can't die, he's the last major beat
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 23:46:00 -0400
Reply-To: DawnDR@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Dawn B. Sova"
<DawnDR@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: William Burroughs Is Dead
Comments:
cc: Waterrow@aol.com
Dear
Jeffrey:
You
must have heard the news about WSB the same time that I did --- on the
late
news. Funny --- only those few lines
--- a newscaster identifying him
as an
author with no further information and, sad to say, showing no further
interest. That saddens me.
Dawn
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 21:12:42 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Bay Area Beat-L Bash
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
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Beat-ler's
The
Bash is under way. Present, James Stauffer, Sherri, Glenn Todd,
Ernie
Edwards, Lisa Rabey and friend Michael, Jerry and Estelle Cimino.
Leon
Tabory just called and is on the way from San Francisco with Anne
Marie
Murphey.
If
anyone has any questions post us==
James
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 23:03:04 -0500
Reply-To: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: wsb
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
gone
beat
goes
on
i
touched him
he
glowed
onery
gallant
he saw
one
with
layers and layers of seeing.
joyous,
playful, angry
dear
kind
would
twist a joke through dinner, sometimes through years.
loved
people,
shooting
at freds farm, found me lurking behind the van, brought me out
was
proud of teaching not only to shoot better but to get over a deadly
fear of
them , sweet talks about facing things.
patricia
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 00:01:08 -0400
Reply-To: Greg Elwell <elwellg@VOICENET.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Greg Elwell
<elwellg@VOICENET.COM>
Subject: Re: William Burroughs Is Dead
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
If
anybody's interested, check out this page on the Internet that I found
moments
ago:
http://www.abcnews.com/sections/us/ap_burroughs802/index.html
DAMN! This is a shock.
Greg
Elwell
elwellg@voicenet.com
Greg Elwell
elwellg@voicenet.com||elwellgr@hotmail.com
<http://www.voicenet.com/~elwellg>