=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 13:04:25 -0400
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From: "Hipster Beat Poet."
<jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
Subject: Third Mind anyone?
In-Reply-To:
<970819125241_655415373@emout12.mail.aol.com>
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According
to a recent book pricing publication, "The Third Mind" is worth
about
$45.00. From what i understand this book is no longer in print. I
have
only been able to take out a copy at the local library here in NJ
but
recently it has vanished. Is there any way of obtaining a copy for
sale?
It is one of the major books missing in my collection, along with
"Tornado
Alley."
thanks,
jason
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 10:08:24 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: The Darkness of Buddishm.
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----------
From: RACE ---[SMTP:race@MIDUSA.NET]
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 1997 6:36 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: The Darkness of Buddishm.
I'll
get it right this time=20
David
Rhaesa wrote:
=09
Amorphous regions overlaying the
literally with the literary are =
getting fuzzy here for me. Cutup confusing
Rasa with Rinaldo -- =
Apologies Rinaldo and Rasa for my last goof with
attribution. In other =
words
just getting confused here a
might.=20
Hey
David, you still got your arm, right? Sticks and stones will break =
your
bones but words will never hurt you. Yeah, right?
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
>
.-
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 12:34:43 -0500
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: The Darkness of Buddishm.
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Leon
Tabory wrote:
>
>
----------
>
From: RACE ---[SMTP:race@MIDUSA.NET]
>
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 1997 6:36 AM
>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
Subject: Re: The Darkness of
Buddishm.
>
>
I'll get it right this time
>
>
David Rhaesa wrote:
>
> Amorphous regions overlaying the
literally with the literary are
getting fuzzy here for me. Cutup confusing Rasa with Rinaldo --
Apologies Rinaldo and Rasa for my last goof with attribution. In other
words just getting confused here a might.
>
>
Hey David, you still got your arm, right? Sticks and stones will break your
bones but words will never hurt you. Yeah,
right?
>
>
david rhaesa
>
salina, Kansas
>
>
> .-
arm is
fine.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 10:43:13 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Third Mind anyone?
Mime-Version:
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Really???
I
remember back in 80 - 82 this book was available in scads at $3 or so for
the
hardback. Moe's in berkely and Logos in
Santa Cruz had bunches of them.
I may
even have had bought a copy. Don't know
where it is today.
My how
times change.
At
01:04 PM 8/19/97 -0400, you wrote:
>According
to a recent book pricing publication, "The Third Mind" is worth
>about
$45.00. From what i understand this book is no longer in print. I
>have
only been able to take out a copy at the local library here in NJ
>but
recently it has vanished. Is there any way of obtaining a copy for
>sale?
It is one of the major books missing in my collection, along with
>"Tornado
Alley."
>
thanks,
>
jason
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 15:10:39 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Third Mind anyone?
Jason
et al:
Regarding
the Burroughs/Gysin collaboration, The Third Mind," if you can find
a nice
copy for $45.00, grab it. The price guide has underestimated the vaue
of this
gem from 1978. Viking (Penguin) should definitely bring it back into
print.
As far
as Tornado Alley by Burroughs goes (illustrated by S. Clay Wilson),
we've
got plenty of copies on hand in two editions:
1.
paperback: $11.95
2.
Hardcover: $20.00
shipping
is $2.00.
I've
got a Third Mind first edition hardcover in dust jacket signed by both
Burroughs
and Gysin in near mint condition - If interested, drop me a line
here at
Water Row -
Jeffrey
Water
Row Books
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 16:31:31 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject:
Re: Books by Jan Kerouac
In-Reply-To:
<970819150914_1883943480@emout03.mail.aol.com>
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Jeffrey
I have
two of Jan's books on hold somewhere. I got side-tracked and do not
have
the phone number to call. A hard cover in mint condition of either
Baby
Driver or Train and a soft cover of the same book.
Do you
know who it was that had notices of collectors stuff--Beat Stuff--on
teh
List a few weeks ago? Was it you?
Thanks,
j grant
Small
Press Authors and Publishers display books
FREE
http://www.bookzen.com/addbook-form.html
375,913 visitors - 07-01-96 to
07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 07:37:55 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Naked Lunch: Benway
Comments:
cc: SSASN@AOL.COM, dkpenn@oees.com
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>
Penn, Douglas, K. wrote:
>
BUT: the surrealists were always using
"commonplace" items and
>
subverting them. WSB and the associated
images seem to be starting
>
from
>
the opposite, with "highly charged" subculture items and working them
>
back to commonplace ideas. I could be
absolutely wrong here, but it's
> a
>
theory to work with at least.
>
> -
not just rebelling against the ordinary
> -
not just organizing and editing the surreal
> -
not just idealizing the possibilities
> -
but starting with the idea of a fucked up universe and working
>
backwords in a purifying manner to a universe which contains it's
>
[opposite]???
I'm not
sure agree that he's working backward to commonplace ideas or in
a
purifying manner, although the act of writing is surely a release of
some
kind. I think the whole universe of
Naked Lunch (as far as I've
read so
far) is based on the premise everyone needs something and their
place
in the universe is defined by what they need at what level. No one
gets
what they need or want. I'm not sure
they even know what that is.
I'm
also not sure that his violent, dark images are surreal or that these
images
are meant to come from an unconscious level.
The narrator's
reality
is perverted and dark, fucked up, if you will, but his reality is
"out
there" as they way things are, the way society is. This is not a
dream
from which he is trying to awake but a script written by his
conscious
mind.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 19:27:02 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: John J Dorfner
<Kirouack@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Burroughs and musical influences
i
enjoyed this stuff diane...thanks for sharing it. i'm going through my
files
from beat-l and deleting stuff. maybe
i'll catch ya later.
john
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 21:31:01 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Mitchell Smith
<Praetor77@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Road: Young adult fiction????
and Chapter 1
Tired,
tired, tired of the whole women question. Similar to the race card
that is
played now and then. I was asked in my PhD candidacy oral defense
about
the portrayal of Mexicans in Road. The young Mexican-American professor
questioning
me went on at some length about "Kerouac's" assertion that
Mexicans
do not care about appearances. The prof explained the inaccuracy,
described
just how much Mexican culture is based on appearances, how white
American
imperialist it was to impose readings on another culture, and the
"R"
word came up of course. How could I defend an author who wrote such
things?
Weellll,
whether Kerouac was an "R" or not, I don't know and don't care. But
I
asked, did the professor really expect a young white guy circa 1950 like
Sal
Paradise to really have the PC race/gender/orientation ideology of a 90's
liberal
college professor? If he did, I would find the chararcter pretty
unreal
and poorly written. Kinda like "Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman" where we
go
back
into the Old West with all our PC assumptions. Cute and cuddly, but real
it
ain't.
So are
you "troubled" by Kerouac's treatment of women and blacks in his
writing?
Don't be troubled (a typical weak university term, like
"problematic")--be
terrified. Don't suspect that his attitudes weren't PC.
They
weren't even close. And don't think that you might be able to find
something
that will redeem him. You won't and who cares?
Kerouac
the man had every right to his opinions and to put them into his
writing.
English Departments seem to aspire to be amateur sociologists,
psychologists,
or political editorialists. They call into question every
philosophical
assumption except their own political correctness. Personally,
this is
not the path for me. Whether Kerouac's view on race, gender, or ice
hockey
conform to my own or not, I am still moved by his artistic brillance
and
will not say he is a bad writer because he doesn't agree with me.
And I
will not write off his complex themes with one word answers like racist
or
sexist. Let's go deeper than that. When someone says his portrayal of
Mexicans
is racist, I answer, "And....?" What does that mean? Where does it
go?
These days EVERYONE can be smeared with those kinds of words. So those
who use
them be warned: they've lost their power. With Kerouac, I want to
know
more deeply the particulars and motivations and symbolic resonances of
the
writing. One word write-offs don't make that.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 20:48:43 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: On the Road: Young adult fiction????
and Chapter 1
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Mitchell
Smith wrote:
>
>
And I will not write off his complex themes with one word answers like racist
or sexist. Let's go deeper than that. When
someone says his portrayal of
Mexicans is racist, I answer,
"And....?" What does that mean? Where does it go?
These days EVERYONE can be smeared with those
kinds of words. So those who use
them be warned: they've lost their power.
With Kerouac, I want to know more
deeply the particulars and motivations and
symbolic resonances of the writing.
One word write-offs don't make that.
Perhaps
i was misunderstood. I'm about as
politically correct as the
pope. I was not saying this makes JK evil. I wasn't suggesting that
one not
read him or suggest him or praise his abilities. It does seem
that he
continually is unable to provide female characters with nearly
the
same depth as the rest of his writing.
Perhaps this is due to the
experiences
he had.
I'm
sorry that you received such harrassment from the Race angle on your
committee
but please don't turn around and play the same game by
accusing
me of playing "a card" when that is not what i said at all.
respectfully,
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 18:49:24 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: build an engine
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1.0
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am
trying to build an engine that will take
beat
lit theory to
art
history methodology
to
artistic product
wish me
luck and thanx to all on this list for
all
their ideas, info, and whatnot
<<unsubscribe>>
Douglas
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ |
0 | The map is
not the
territory
| { - | --Korzybski
----> |
/\ |
=========
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 21:19:41 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: how did you meet the beats.
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Charles,
How and when did you meet Allen or
William? As much as I sympathise
with
the ernest academics about this being a place dedicated to
discussion
of literature, to me the literature comes untidily wrapped in
the
social life and community that the literature evolved from. I am
interested
in the travel and points of contact people had.
Patricia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 19:31:47 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: build an engine
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I do
wish you luck. I will miss your creative
piercing contributions. Please
keep in touch and let us know what you are
coming up with
Bon
Chance
leon
----------
From: runner[SMTP:babu@ELECTRICITI.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 1997 6:49 PM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: build an engine
am
trying to build an engine that will take
beat
lit theory to
art
history methodology
to
artistic product
wish me
luck and thanx to all on this list for
all
their ideas, info, and whatnot
<<unsubscribe>>
Douglas
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ |
0 | The map is
not the
territory
| { -
| --Korzybski
----> |
/\ |
=========
.-
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 19:59:28 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher
<brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: The Darkness of Buddhism.
In-Reply-To:
<199708191405.KAA05111@lynx.dac.neu.edu> from "Tony
Trigilio" at
Aug 19, 97 10:05:37 am
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I
wrote:
>
>As somebody who calls himself a Buddhist, I'd like
>
>to say that Burroughs comments about the religion are
>
>at least very intelligent. He
grasps the essence
>
>of Buddhism, which is self-denial.
Tony
wrote:
>
I've never had the impression that this "self-denial" is the
"essence" of
>
Buddhism. What seems denied in Buddhism
is a belief in an essential,
>
unchanging self--a self independent of and unencumbered by historical and
>
material conditions. Buddhism denies
this kind of self, sure, as much as it
>
denies the opposite idea of selfhood: a
self so mutable and changeable that
> it
cannot account for (and be responsible for) the joys and pains it creates
> in
the mind.
and
also:
>
Burroughs is right on the mark, and is speaking against those who misuse
>
Buddhism when he says, "A man who uses Buddhism or any other instrument to
>
remove love from his being in order to avoid, has committed, in my mind, a
>
sacrilege comparable to castration."
The little I know of the many
>
Buddhisms in the contemporary world suggests to me that any person who uses
>
Buddhism to "remove love" from one's own being--rather than habituate
>
oneself to love--is indeed committing oneself to a form of self-aversion
>
that is a sacrilege.
I think
you're right, and I guess I'm being overly
extreme
to say that self-denial is the essence of
Buddhism.
It's
important to realize, as you said, that Buddha
did not
teach extreme asceticism (self-denial) but
rather
pointed towards a "middle way" between
the two
opposite traps, self-denial and self-indulgence.
But I
think it's the self-denial aspect of Buddhism
that
people think more about, mainly because humans
tend to
be naturally self-indulgent, so reaching
the
"middle way" is usually acheived only with
strong
doses of renunciation. Very few people
are so
naturally unselfish that they have to reach
the
middle way by becoming *more* selfish.
Nice
thought, though.
About
the difference between American Buddhists
and
actual Asian Buddhists, I agree that they
are
worlds apart. I remember when my wife
and
I,
looking for some enlightenment on a hot summer
day in
Queens, wandered into a Korean Buddhist
temple
in Corona. They stared at us like we
were
insane. Looked kinda fun in there, though,
wish
they could have let us stay ...
------------------------------------------------------
| Levi
Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
|
|
|
| Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
|
| (3 years old and still running) |
|
|
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
|
|
|
*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*
|
|
|
| "It was my dream that
screwed up" |
| -- Jack
Kerouac |
------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 23:57:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Kyle Mays <kmays@VOICENET.COM>
Subject: Subscribe help
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I was
wondering if anyone can help me subscribe to the Beat-l. Thanks for
any
help.
Kyle
Mays
kmays@voicenet.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 21:47:09 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: On the Road: Young adult fiction????
and Chapter 1
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Mitchell,
Thanks
for you post which is excellent. It is
entirely bogus to expect
the
Beats to be PC. In my comments on JK
and women I really wasn't
meaning
to suggest that. It is more my
contention that JK wrote very
poor
women characters. I personally don't
care whether he was sexist of
not. His problem rather than mine. A more relevant issue is whether
his
inability to see women in any sort of totality limited him as a
writer. Sort of a problem for a novelist and, if we
were to follow
Leslie
Fiedler, an endemic problem for American novelists at least. But
I can
think of a lot of American writers who wrote far more realized
women
than Jack could. Henry James and Scott Fitzgerald come to mind.
Jack
writes wonderfully about alot of things.
But women aren't one. I
am
inclined to agree that the painful relationship with Billie, which is
no fun
at all to read, may be the only time he got it very real.
But
thanks for your refreshingly non-PC point of view. And thanks for
reminding
me why I shouldn't miss the world of English departments.
J.
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 23:02:37 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: 710 Ashbury and other treasures
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Beat-L
folks with lots of money and a Deadhead orientation may want to
know
that they have the chance of a lifetime to buy the Dead house at
710
Ashbury. Just bring your prequalified
loan to bid over the 900,000
minimum
bid and you're in the game. Butterfield
and Butterfield is
doing a
"Summer of Love" auction in which the house is the featured
attraction,
other items include the original contract for the Charlatans
to play
at the Red Dog Saloon. I will send off
for the catalog to see
if
there is anything literary included.
J.
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:33:47 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Jan Keroauc First Editions
Mime-Version:
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Can
someone help me with this?
I
reserved a couple of First Editions of Jan Keroauc's and before I had a
chance
to call back with credit card info I misplaced name of the book
dealer.
At the
same time my computer ate some files.
The
information came to me via the Beat List.
If the book dealer sees this
please
contact me so Ican get the $ to you.
Thanks,
j grant
Small
Press Authors and Publishers display books
FREE
http://www.bookzen.com/addbook-form.html
375,913 visitors - 07-01-96 to
07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 10:12:17 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PATRICK <EASTWIND@EROLS.COM>
Organization:
EASTWIND PUBLISHING
Subject: Re: Slim Gaillard and Jack...and the
hipsters
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Antoine
Maloney wrote:
>
>
Answer to Quiz #2:
>
>
Slim's son-in-law was Marvin Gaye, one of the crown princes of soul music.
> He
had Slim Gaillard sit in on the album "Midnight Love"; he added
>
hand-clapping!?!
>
>
Anybody know if Kerouac - Cassady were into doowop, Rhythm 'n blues or soul?
>
>
Antoine
>
> **********
>
>About the Slim Gaillard trivia question posed by Antoine Maloney,
>
>
>
>I don't know.
>
>
> >That's
why I didn't hazard a guess.
>
>
>
>As I remember it was who is Slim famous musician son-in-law.
>
>
>
>OK, times up I give and it seems like no one else is going to pose an
answer
>
>so...
>
>
>
>OK, who?
>
>
> Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
> "An anarchist is someone who
doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"
> -- Norman Navrotsky
and Utah Phillips
I never
met kerouac, but I met Ginsberg, Corso in Paris at the Beat
Hotel
in the late 50s'- and can tell you with assuarnce that the music
of the
beats was American Jazz---Coltrane, Bud Powell and the early Chet
Baker
when he was just starting in Calif.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 10:19:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PATRICK <EASTWIND@EROLS.COM>
Organization:
EASTWIND PUBLISHING
Subject: Re: Cross posting from RMD
Comments:
To: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
MIME-Version:
1.0
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text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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R.
Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
>
>From time to time, I check out the Dylan news group. I used to post
>
there a lot till I found the beat-l and found it to be more fun, and
>
less spam. (Wonderful spam!). There has been raging a fierce war
>
between the condemn Burroughs to hell and the Burroughs just told the
>
truth folks. I have found several posts
that are quite good in the
>
defense of Burroughs. The ones that
lead into them are quite bad but
>
have been repeated in the follow up posts.
I sent two that I thought
>
were particularly good to P and she said that they good food for
>
thought. I am going to post those two
to the list, because I think they
>
contain good summaries of the merits of WSB's work.
>
>
The posts are not intended to draw comments, and we certainly do not
>
need to discuss the drivel that lead to these posts. But, I think it is
>
helpful to the list to gain a perspective of how some who are not on the
>
list perceive and defend WSB. If anyone
wants to comment, feel free.
>
But these two posts are cross posts and will be labeled as such. I do
>
not intend to comment on them, just cross post.
>
> If
you care to see the full exchanges, point your news reader at:
>
>
rec.music.dylan
>
>
Then check out the burroughs rot in hell thread, or something like that.
>
>
Peace,
>
Thanks.
> --
>
Bentz
>
bocelts@scsn.net
>
>
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Doesanyone
have any information on the Beats in Paris,France at the Beat
Hotel?--that
is, articles etc.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:24:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MATT HANNAN
<MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>
Subject: Re[2]: The Darkness of Buddhism.
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>"A
man who uses Buddhism or any other instrument to remove love from his
being
in order to avoid, has committed, in my mind, a sacrilege comparable
to
castration."
The
word "uses", I think, is the key here. I don't think he's suggesting
that
*Buddhism* removes love but that someone can mis-use the tenets of
Buddhism
to say "I don't/can't/won't love because that's 'attachment'".
Do I have a firm grasp of the obvious or
what?
love and lilies,
matt
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 11:18:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Jan Keroauc First Editions
In-Reply-To: <v03007801b020a1b737ad@[156.46.45.72]>
MIME-Version:
1.0
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On Wed,
20 Aug 1997, jo grant wrote:
>
Can someone help me with this?
>
> I
reserved a couple of First Editions of Jan Keroauc's and before I had a
>
chance to call back with credit card info I misplaced name of the book
>
dealer.
>
Call
the rare book dept at the Strand in NYC...last time I was there (a
couple
of months ago admittedly), they had a Jan Kerouac first edition,
as well
as a first ed. of the paperback of Desolate Angels. If they dont
have
those anymore, the folks there would probably be able to figure out
your
dealer'sname, provided you give enough clues, since they deal with
most
any of them in the area.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 11:14:02 -0400
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: On the Road: drunkenness
Reply
to message from jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM of Mon, 18 Aug
>
>Whiskey
is expensive. Whiskey alcoholics have more money. By the time the
>alcoholic
gets to wine he/she is usually close to the bottom of the
>economic
ladder.
>
>j
grant
This
past March when I was writing my "senior seminar" paper on the Beats
(how I
first found this list...) I decided that, as research, I had to get
a
bottle of Thunderbird. It was research,
pure research, I kept telling
my
friends who rolled their eyes. So, at
the state liquor store in
Aurora,
Ohio, I asked the kind clerk if they had any in stock. He laughed
and
said no, but "This stuff is the next best thing," and pointed to a
bottle
of Wild Irish Rose. So I grabbed a
bottle while the clerk continued
laughing
and asked, "Is this a gag gift?" "Um, no, it's research," I
replied.
Well,
about a week later I found the real deal in the 24-hour Giant Eagle
in
Ravenna. Granted, the greenish tint
that I was never quite sure if it
belonged
solely to the bottle or the liquor caught me off guard. But let's
just
say that if you've only got $5 to spend on liquor, the stuff will do
the
job. So then my professor found out
about my research & shook his
head,
remarking, "They still sell that stuff?
My roommate back in college
drank
an entire bottle of that one night, and later on he was puking green
bile..."
So
maybe it all has to do with desperation....
Diane.
--
Diane M. Homza
<---Professional Rebound Girl!
2 Years
Experience; References Are Avaliable!
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
"I
can't imagine how I ever thought my love might make a difference to him."
--Richard Powers, _The Gold
Bug Variations_
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 23:33:48 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: On the Road: Chad King
MIME-Version:
1.0
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Does
anyone have a character list that identifies Chad King who is in the
first
part of On the Road? Also, when he gets
to Denver, Sal stays with
a group
of friends who seem to be on the outs with Cody and Irwin, does
anyone
know the social particulars of the time and whether it was just a
personality
conflict or did it have to do with views of literature, as
one of
the guys Sal stays with seems to want to write like Hemingway.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 11:38:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dixon Edmiston <DIXCIN@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Road: Young adult fiction????
and Chapter 1
Mitchell
Smith wrote "Tired, tired,tired..."
Thank
you, thank you, thank you....
Dixon
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 11:07:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ron Guest
<rguest@SUNSET.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU>
Subject: Bay Area/Beat-L Group
Mime-Version:
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I remember reading post about a Beat-l
group trying to get together
in the
Bay area. Did it happen? Any interesting news, ideas or
topics
for discussion come out of that?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 13:05:31 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sara Brosnan <coffee@MAIL.WDN.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Road: Young adult fiction????
and Chapt
MIME-Version:
1.0
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boundary="------------19CC5EE50031385F5C96532E"
--------------19CC5EE50031385F5C96532E
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>
SHOCKING. They have a sticker on it as
Young Adult Fiction.
>
Now part of me drew back in horror at the thought of them doing this
> to
> a
wonderful book
>
but a sinister and subversive side of me likes very much that this
>
book
>
will be in the young adult section. i
may even begin to roam the
>
shelves of the fiction section and make other suggestions for Young
>
Adult classifications of REAL authors.
>
This is
my first post to this list. I'm 15 and
going into my sophmore
year of
highschool. OTR was on are recomended
summer reading list and I
just
finished reading it. I've read Howl and
a bunch of other Ginsberg
poems
along with some of Jack Kerouac's. I
also read and loved a book
which
was a collection of stuff from Woman Beats. As part of my
Humanities
class next year we are going to be reading some Beat stuff I
think. Which I think is incredibly cool. I'm looking forward to
hearing
everyone's insights on Beat literature, and adding some of my
own.
Sara
"I
saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by maddness, starving,
hysterical,
naked."
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/1988
--------------19CC5EE50031385F5C96532E
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<HTML>
<BLOCKQUOTE
TYPE=CITE>SHOCKING. They have a sticker on it as Young
Adult
Fiction.
<BR>Now
part of me drew back in horror at the thought of them doing this
to
<BR>a
wonderful book
<BR>but
a sinister and subversive side of me likes very much that this
book
<BR>will
be in the young adult section. i may even begin to roam
the
<BR>shelves
of the fiction section and make other suggestions for Young
<BR>Adult
classifications of REAL authors.
<BR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
This is
my first post to this list. I'm 15 and going into my sophmore
year of
highschool. OTR was on are recomended summer reading list
and I
just finished reading it. I've read Howl and a bunch of other
Ginsberg
poems along with some of Jack Kerouac's. I also read and
loved a
book which was a collection of stuff from Woman Beats. As part
of my
Humanities class next year we are going to be reading some Beat stuff
I
think. Which I think is incredibly
cool. I'm
looking
forward to hearing everyone's insights on Beat literature, and
adding
some of my own.
<P>Sara
<BR>"I
saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by maddness, starving,
hysterical,
naked."
<BR><A
HREF="htttp://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/1988">http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/
Lofts/1988</A>
<BR>
<BR> </HTML>
--------------19CC5EE50031385F5C96532E--
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 14:04:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mitchell Smith
<Praetor77@AOL.COM>
Subject: Ron W and White Fields Press
Does
anyone know what has become of Ron Whitehead and why White Fields Press
went
out of business? They had such an amazing line of publications, I can't
see why
they gave up. The difficulties of being a small press I guess.
M Smith
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 12:18:32 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MATT HANNAN
<MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>
Subject: Re: On the Road: Chad King
Mime-Version:
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Hal Chase and Ed White (Chad King and Tim
Gray in On the Road) were
roommates and sometime college students
in Denver. Who Kerouac stayed
with when he first arrived in Denver.
Ann Charters wrote in Kerouac - A
Biography:
"Jack described the mood as
"some kind of conspiracy," even "a war
with social overtones," because Neal
was the son of a wino bum and
Chase and White were college students
from respectable homes.
But Chase and his friends didn't stress
the social differences when
they objected to Cassady. They told Jack they thought Neal was "a
moron and a fool" for rushing around
Denver making love to any willing
girl:........"
love and lilies,
matt
______________________________
Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject:
On the Road: Chad King
Author: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> at Internet
Date: 8/19/97 11:33 PM
Does
anyone have a character list that identifies Chad King who is in the
first
part of On the Road? Also, when he gets
to Denver, Sal stays with
a group
of friends who seem to be on the outs with Cody and Irwin, does
anyone
know the social particulars of the time and whether it was just a
personality
conflict or did it have to do with views of literature, as
one of
the guys Sal stays with seems to want to write like Hemingway.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 12:47:59 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: Ron W and White Fields Press
In-Reply-To:
<970820140206_1359674217@emout11.mail.aol.com>
Mime-Version:
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m.smith
as far
as i know they havent gone out of business - at least not as much
as ron
has mentioned to me ( and you would think in his wild enthusiastci
nightmares
of posts that ramble & update in a fury/flurry of wrds he would
have
said something) i know that he is still planning some publishe in
heaven
posters, organizing a reading for oct 9 in lousiville, KY, heading
to
europe for readings, etc sept.10, working on research for new book on
l.ferlinghetti
and working on new poetry as well as recently submitted
manuscript
for final editing of _william s. burroughs: calling the toads_
so i
dont think that whitefields press has bit the bucket yet.
have
you heard otherwise?
yrs
derek
On Wed,
20 Aug 1997, Mitchell Smith wrote:
>
>
Does anyone know what has become of Ron Whitehead and why White Fields Press
>
went out of business? They had such an amazing line of publications, I can't
>
see why they gave up. The difficulties of being a small press I guess.
>
> M
Smith
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 15:37:18 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Lowell Celebrates Kerouac 1997
I was
wondering if anyone else was planning on going to Lowell in October. May
be we
can wear our Beat-l shirts and meet for drinks in the Worthen pub or some
thing.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 15:34:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: OTR -- chapter 1 still
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I'm
moving along at a snail's pace. my
apologies to the quick readers.
"The
whole mad swirl of everything that was to come began then; it would
mix up
all my friends and all I had left of my family in a big dust
cloud
over the American Night." (p.8)
This
sentence just hit me hard. I'd turned
the page and there it was at
the top
of the next . . . bam! . . . It seems to say so much of the tale
(as i
recall from reading it long ago).
I guess
it also says something about some decent ways of reading OTR.
It
seems an easy way to fall amidst the whirlwind and madness and let
the
story take you along. I have done this
when i read it before.
Another
is to be more of a twister watcher (albeit not a member of the
p.c.
police) and observe the whirl of mad connections from a safer and
saner
distance.
This
time around i will follow the second path - the first is far too
likely
to land me in a hospital.
This
quotation as i said hit me hard in the middle of some synapse and
seems
to say so much -- not just about chapter one -- but far far far
into
the narrative.
"And
this was really the way that my whole road experience began, and
the
things that were to come are too fantastic not to tell." (p.9)
JK
slides so smoothly out of the narrative and into the role of
storyteller...the
author sliding into the story a bit.
i've always
liked
this quality. And the notion of
"TOO FANTASTIC" along with the
"WHOLE
MAD SWIRL" begin to create something in my brain which i missed
by
falling too far into the book the last time i read it.
"Somewhere
along the line I knew there'd be girls, visions, everything:
somewhere
along the line the pearl would be handed to me." (p.11)
I
wonder if the pearl was ever handed off.
To JK, to us??? The
fantastic
tale is certainly in store and it provides everything - but
perhaps
not the pearl.
I'll
lag along slowly pearl hunting.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 18:11:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Carl A Biancucci <carl@WORLD.STD.COM>
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997082015402243@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> from "Bill
Gargan" at
Aug 20, 97 03:37:18 pm
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=>I'll
definitely be going to Lowell in Oct.,and hope to meet
assorted
Beat-L-sters.
> I
was wondering if anyone else was planning on going to Lowell in October.
May
> be
we can wear our Beat-l shirts and meet for drinks in the Worthen pub or
some
>
thing.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 00:11:42 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Wittgenstein's dream (Re: Was Burroughs
really a beat writer?)
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.BSI.3.95.970813195003.25110D-100000@global.california .com>
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Michael
et al. friends,
Ludwig
Wittgenstein (1889-1951) was indeed a very tormented soul:
Ludwig
every nite dreamed of cold & deep place into himself own
mind,
lifting up a handkerchief & scared of worms &
creeping
slimy beeings found there.
saluti,
Rinaldo.
At
20.04 13/08/97 -0700,
"Michael
R. Brown" <foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM> wrote:
> "Wittgenstein said that if the universe
is pre-recorded, the only thing
> not pre-recorded is those recordings
themselves. In my work,
> the cut-ups and all, I attempt to get at
the substance of the
> recordings."
> - William S.
Burroughs
> (quoted from
memory)
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 17:22:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Naked Lunch: Chapter 1, up to Benway
In-Reply-To: <33F6CC50.10CB@midusa.net>
MIME-Version:
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On Sun,
17 Aug 1997, RACE --- wrote:
>
runner wrote:
>
> Mixed this all up with my working
>
> WSB ideas of the "big lie."
>
>
>
> http://www.electriciti.com/babu/images/Big_lie.html
>
>
>
> Douglas
>
>
>
> http://www.electriciti.com/babu/
>
>
I'm not certain that "lie" is it.
Unless the Lie is in only one angle
> on
truth. It doesn't seem to me a
particularly moralish notion as Lie
>
sometimes suggests - what constitutes the Big Lie is factually accurate
>
from a particular point of view, from a particular angle. What is
>
exposed is the multiplicity of angles.
In
_Painting & Guns_ Burroughs talks about points of view in painting (this
was
actually an essay that appeared elsewhere, but I don't recall the name
right
now). His paintings, he said (I'm paraphrasing), were made to be
viewed
from "any angle." The idea was to destroy the notion of one point of
view,
one framed image with one place to look at. But with a framed image
you
still have notions of left, right, top, bottom etc., so I wonder if
anyone
has done something like this -- it would seem that a good way to do
implement
"multiplicity of angles" would be a circular shaped canvas, and a
framing
device that does not rely on hanging the picture in any particular
direction.
To see this implemented in music and in film, that would be
interesting
perhaps.
I liked
"green tit."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 18:34:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Ted W. Nagy"
<tnagy@PASS.WAYNE.EDU>
Subject: unsubscribe
In-Reply-To: <33F76F7C.D8C@pacbell.net>
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unscribe
beat-l
thankyou
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 18:51:19 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Rare books
Bill
Morgan and Bob Rosenthal have issued a new catalog: The Beats/Edie
Kerouac
Collection. They have a number of items
on sale that once
belonged
to Edie, many containing her signature and stamp. I found the
prices
very reasonable. For a copy of the
catalog or for more
information,
contact Morgan & Rosenthal, P.O. BOX 1631, Stuyvesant
Station,
New York, NY 10009
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:12:18 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: OTR -- chapter 1 still
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>
RACE wrote:
>
"Somewhere along the line I knew there'd be girls, visions, everything:
>
somewhere along the line the pearl would be handed to me." (p.11)
>
> I
wonder if the pearl was ever handed off.
To JK, to us??? The
>
fantastic tale is certainly in store and it provides everything - but
>
perhaps not the pearl.
>
>
I'll lag along slowly pearl hunting.
I think
JK finds many pearls but never THE pearl.
The flawed part is
probably
that he kept searching for THE pearl instead of accepting the
many he
found.
DC
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 20:58:49 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: On the Road: Young adult fiction????
and Chapter 1
In-Reply-To:
<970819125241_655415373@emout12.mail.aol.com>
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On Tue,
19 Aug 1997, Dawn B. Sova wrote:
>
I'd be curious if other Beat books are similarly classified. What a
>
wonderful way to let the system open minds.
Yup.
Several of the larger regional libraries near me have whole Beat
sections
in their Young Adult area. Come to think of it, the only time I've
ever
seen one of those newer (Penguin) Kerouac paperbacks in a library was
in the
Young Adult area.
Despite
the years of living with me & my Beat obsession, my little sister
(18)
took to the Beats on her own just recently. She got Ginsberg's
_Cosmopolitan
Greetings_ and Jack's _Book of Blues_ from the Young Adult
section
at one of those said libraries.
m
email
stutz@dsl.org Copyright (c) 1997
Michael Stutz; this information is
<http://dsl.org/m/> free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL,
and as long
as this sentence remains;
it comes with absolutely NO
WARRANTY; for details see
<http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 20:23:39 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: OTR -- chapter 1 still
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Diane
Carter wrote:
>
>
> RACE wrote:
>
> "Somewhere along the line I knew there'd be girls, visions,
everything:
>
> somewhere along the line the pearl would be handed to me." (p.11)
>
>
>
> I wonder if the pearl was ever handed off. To JK, to us??? The
>
> fantastic tale is certainly in store and it provides everything - but
>
> perhaps not the pearl.
>
>
>
> I'll lag along slowly pearl hunting.
>
> I
think JK finds many pearls but never THE pearl. The flawed part is
>
probably that he kept searching for THE pearl instead of accepting the
>
many he found.
> DC
> DC
i'll
try to look for "pearls" and not "THE" Pearl as i hunt
along in
chapter
two and onward. the great pearl hunt o o p s
i means "A"
great
pearl hunt . . .
. . . in a whirlwind
of madness on route ...
of
the AMERICAN NIGHT !
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 21:28:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Bill Morgan <Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Books from Edie Kerouac's library
We've
just issued a catalogue of books from the library of Edie Kerouac that
might
be of interest to collectors of Beat books.
Featured are a large
number
of Burroughs, Ginsberg and Kerouac titles, many of with annotations by
Edie. Anyone that would like a copy of the
catalogue should e-mail me or
write
to:
Morgan
& Rosenthal
PO Box
1631
Stuyvesant
Station
New
York, NY 10009
Thanks,
don't want to clutter up the list with advertisements, but thought
some of
you might like to know about this.
We've
also just published a beautiful book by Lawrence Ferlinghetti
illustrated
by Larry Collins. It's a poem called
"The Hopper House at Truro"
he
wrote after visiting Edward Hopper's house on Cape Cod.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 21:29:58 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: next post
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If you
do not want to read an experimental work and tribute to your OTR
readings,
please do not read my next post. It is
Georgetown to
Richland.
Any
criticism is welcome, as long as it is not malicious. :-)
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 21:42:26 -0400
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Georgetown to Columbia ( A Travelogue)
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Georgetown
to Columbia
(A
Travelogue)
At
12:00 midnight, the Georgetown steel mill
Is
belching smoke covering the sky
Demon-like
redness.
At
12:00 noon, there is no smoke.
Georgetown
on 17 Alt is cheap commercial construction.
On to
Andrews, Panola, Burnt Gin,
Greelyville,
Paxville, Pinewood.
Confederate
navel battlejacks are unfurled,
Close
to Mt. Zero Baptist Church
and the
Pentacostal spirit filled flame.
Cotton,
tobacco, strips of pine trees
Gobbled
by giant beetles into trucks
To shed
bark on your car.
Dekalb
Corn signs like Detroit Red Wings,
Turn to
Jesus or burn in HELL!
Columbia's
free weekly.
At
Coopers Country Grocery,
A bbq
sandwich, crackling (low fat)
And
Clearly Canadian.
A men's
room with yellowed baseboards,
And ammonia
eaten pipes.
Manchester,
Wedgefield, knee high grass.
10th
Anniversary Special Issue.
In
Andrews the boys n the hood are
On the
street.
Fierce,
scary, no respect,
All is
lost and gone, gone, gone.
(Probably
real excited about workfare here.)
Yuhannah,
Highway 261,
Thinking
about youth
Imagining
linear life.
And
innocence.
Boiled
peanuts are better for children than candy,
hulls
flying out of window.
White
cadillacs on blocks
White
caddys on the road.
How
could Antoine have known?
Tenants
are people too!
Inside
The
first issue.
Charles
L. Griffin, III highway.
Right
over Railroad Avenue.
Free
Times.
Times
are bought with a price.
What
willing payment?
What
extracted?
Jesus
Saves.
Cross
on the side,
Public
boat ramps,
Pinewood
hazard waste.
When
will it arrive?
Hopkins,
Lower Richland, Manchester.
Linear
is not life.
Life is
not linear.
Free
entertainment,
But not
linear,
And not
necessairly pleasant.
Inside,
At the
silo,
The
chutes on the ground,
Corn
scattered round.
Sumter
F-15's thundering
I am in
a vertical climb.
Is it
possible to be
A
dishonest polluter?
A white
man barefoot,
Talks
to the black woman.
The
Confederate Navel Battlejack,
Flies
down the block.
Like a
river in fast forward,
I am
flowing here,
Georgetown
to Columbia.
Waste
not want not.
I am
here,
Nothing
is there,
30
years in between.
Free
times.
Columbia
City Limits.
An
All-American City.
Bessinger
heats it
In a
microwave.
And
Garner's Ferry melts into the Devine.
Melt
into the Divine.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 19:52:13 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Bay Area/Beat-L Group
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Ron
Guest wrote:
>
> I remember reading post about a
Beat-l group trying to get together
> in
the Bay area. Did it happen? Any interesting news, ideas or
>
topics for discussion come out of
that?
Ron,
The SF
Bay Area Beatle Bash (First Annual or whatever) occured on August
2,
the evening of WSB's death at my place
in Redwood City. It was a
great
party, lots of great discussion, although I cannot recall any
dominant
theme that called out for list discussion.
Just wonderful,
raging
talk.
Heartily
recommend such gatherings. A very
unique event in that very
few
people had met anyone there before except online. Made for a really
great
exchange. Very little "what do you
do for a living"--a lot more
about
what folks had done, were doing, and were thinking. Some
nostalgia,
to be sure, but a lot of what's happening now and some great
cross
generational discussions.
Will be
posting pictures soon. Stay tuned.
James
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 22:51:21 -0400
Reply-To: Greg Elwell <elwellg@voicenet.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Greg Elwell
<elwellg@VOICENET.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Road: Chad King
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Off hand I believe that Chad King is Hal
Chase. Is this correct? I'm not
totally
sure who Hal Chase is either.
Greg
Elwell
elwellg@voicenet.com
|| elwellgr@hotmail.com
<http://www.voicenet.com/~elwellg>
-----Original
Message-----
From:
Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date:
Wednesday, August 20, 1997 11:40 AM
Subject:
On the Road: Chad King
>Does
anyone have a character list that identifies Chad King who is in the
>first
part of On the Road? Also, when he gets
to Denver, Sal stays with
>a
group of friends who seem to be on the outs with Cody and Irwin, does
>anyone
know the social particulars of the time and whether it was just a
>personality
conflict or did it have to do with views of literature, as
>one
of the guys Sal stays with seems to want to write like Hemingway.
>DC
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 20:18:39 -0700
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From: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: OTR -- chapter 1 still
Mime-Version:
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>"Somewhere
along the line I knew there'd be girls, visions, everything:
>somewhere
along the line the pearl would be handed to me." (p.11)
>
>I
wonder if the pearl was ever handed off.
To JK, to us??? The
>fantastic
tale is certainly in store and it provides everything - but
>perhaps
not the pearl.
>
>I'll
lag along slowly pearl hunting.
>
>david
rhaesa
>salina,
Kansas
I wonder if the pearl in the quote
transcribed by David is an allusion to
Steinbeck's
novella _The Pearl_. I think that _The
Pearl_ was published
about
ten years before _On The Road_ so it's at least possible. If it is an
allusion,
the pearl Kerouac expects will be handed to him carries some
negative
connotations.
Just musing,
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 23:32:47 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: David Makar <dmakar@CCS.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: OTR -- chapter 1 still
In-Reply-To:
<199708210318.UAA21431@freya.van.hookup.net>
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On Wed,
20 Aug 1997, James William Marshall wrote:
>
>"Somewhere along the line I knew there'd be girls, visions,
everything:
>
>somewhere along the line the pearl would be handed to me." (p.11)
>
>
>
>I wonder if the pearl was ever handed off.
To JK, to us??? The
>
>fantastic tale is certainly in store and it provides everything - but
>
>perhaps not the pearl.
>
>
>
>I'll lag along slowly pearl hunting.
>
>
>
>david rhaesa
>
>salina, Kansas
>
> I wonder if the pearl in the quote
transcribed by David is an allusion to
>
Steinbeck's novella _The Pearl_. I
think that _The Pearl_ was published
>
about ten years before _On The Road_ so it's at least possible. If it is an
>
allusion, the pearl Kerouac expects will be handed to him carries some
>
negative connotations.
Wow
James,
That's a pretty good idea, seriously. Perhaps there are more
litterary
alusions that Jack slipped in secretly.
-Dave
David Makar
<dmakar@ccs.neu.edu>
"I've never been too lucky, but I've
never been too unlucky either"
-Mikrad Vada
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 21:11:37 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: OTR -- chapter 1 still
Mime-Version:
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At
08:18 PM 8/20/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>"Somewhere
along the line I knew there'd be girls, visions, everything:
>>somewhere
along the line the pearl would be handed to me." (p.11)
>>
>>I
wonder if the pearl was ever handed off.
To JK, to us??? The
>>fantastic
tale is certainly in store and it provides everything - but
>>perhaps
not the pearl.
>>
>>I'll
lag along slowly pearl hunting.
>>
>>david
rhaesa
>>salina,
Kansas
>
> I wonder if the pearl in the quote
transcribed by David is an allusion to
>Steinbeck's
novella _The Pearl_. I think that _The
Pearl_ was published
>about
ten years before _On The Road_ so it's at least possible. If it is an
>allusion,
the pearl Kerouac expects will be handed to him carries some
>negative
connotations.
>
>
Just musing,
>
James M.
>
>
Musing
meself,
I'd
think that the pearl (whatever "the pearl" actually is--kind of like
IT)
probably
more likley refers or comes from the pearl of great price.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 23:49:43 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jgh3ring
<jgh3ring@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: how did you meet the beats.
Mime-Version:
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there
is one aspect of the beat generation literature that it is not, and
that is
timely.
Jason
"donutman" Helfman
Three-Ring
Creations
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 23:50:27 -0000
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: jgh3ring
<jgh3ring@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: how did you meet the beats.
Mime-Version:
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oops,
thought you typed untimely, you typed untidy....and that it is not,
as well
Jason
"donutman" Helfman
Three-Ring
Creations
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 23:51:28 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: jgh3ring
<jgh3ring@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Bay Area/Beat-L Group
Mime-Version:
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bay
area, meaning where specifically?
Jason
"donutman" Helfman
Three-Ring
Creations
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 23:54:36 -0000
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: jgh3ring
<jgh3ring@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Road: Chad King
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does it
matter who the character actually is, would it change your
perspective
of the work, dull it numb it shit on it enlighten it...I
don't
think their are many distict similarities in Kerouac of
Hemingway...they
are writers and they write to write....
Jason
"donutman" Helfman
Three-Ring
Creations
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 14:46:38 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Moritz Rossbach
<moro0000@STUD.UNI-SB.DE>
Subject: wsb's death/ recommendations for US trip
In-Reply-To: <199708210459.XAA03288@dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com>
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hi
folks,
i just
came back from vacation when i heard the sad news about wsb's
death,
so i turned back to good ole beat-l as fast as possible. i am sure
there
were a good deal of posts saying something nice about him, his life
and his
works. too bad that in germany he was only worth a little note in
the
papers. would anyone be so kind and summarize the talk on the beat-l
for me
? (Or is it possible to get the collected posts, bill ?)
i
didn't read much burroughs so far, but what i read fascinated and
disgusted
me at the same time (don't get me wrong), he was one of the few
writers
who knew to wake emotions in me i never felt before. his radical
lifestyle,
strange and somehow familiar attracts me like only jk's could
do.
but i
guess it's also just the american lifestyle that attracts me ( the
ambivalent
(or is it -lence?) of nature and city, literature and crap,
mcdonalds,
barnes and nobles, cars, weapons, beaches, all that stuff i
love
and hate. yeah, i know i got a pretty sarcastic cliche marlboro
country
conception.....anyway, i am coming over and need some good tips
about
what to do. i start in nyc, then pennsylvania and then i wanna do
the
"driveaway"-thing wherever it may take me...new orleans and mexico
are
possible
aims. Lowell, ma. stands also on the list, maybe we could arrange
a
little beat-l meeting at "lowell celebrates kerouac" ?!
any
recommendations welcome
and please
excuse me for going to far into this slightly off-topic theme,
i am
just so excited :)
//
(o o)
--------oOO-(_)-OOo------sincerely
moritz rossbach
saarbruecken, germany
moro0000@stud.uni-sb.de
http://stud.uni-sb.de/~moro0000
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 09:42:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Burroughs Tribute Site
This is
a great place to read expressions of condolence and memorium for WSB:
<A
HREF="http://sunsite.unc.edu/mal/MO/wsb/">a living, breathing and
ever grow
ing
William ...</A>
diane
de rooy
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 09:46:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Fwd: burroughs site
I'm
never sure if I'm sending links right, so here's the path to that
Burroughs
site again, just in case the first one didn't work.
diane
---------------------
Forwarded
message:
Subj: burroughs site
Date: 97-08-21 09:43:46 EDT
From: Ddrooy
To: Ddrooy
http://sunsite.unc.edu/mal/MO/wsb/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 08:05:20 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: MATT HANNAN
<MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>
Subject: Re[2]: Books from Edie Kerouac's library
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What's the e-mail address...
matt
______________________________
Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject:
Re: Books from Edie Kerouac's library
Author: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> at Internet
Date: 8/20/97 9:28 PM
We've
just issued a catalogue of books from the library of Edie Kerouac that
might
be of interest to collectors of Beat books.
Featured are a large
number
of Burroughs, Ginsberg and Kerouac titles, many of with annotations by
Edie. Anyone that would like a copy of the
catalogue should e-mail me or
write
to:
Morgan
& Rosenthal
PO Box
1631
Stuyvesant
Station
New
York, NY 10009
Thanks,
don't want to clutter up the list with advertisements, but thought
some of
you might like to know about this.
We've
also just published a beautiful book by Lawrence Ferlinghetti
illustrated
by Larry Collins. It's a poem called
"The Hopper House at Truro"
he
wrote after visiting Edward Hopper's house on Cape Cod.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 23:03:43 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: On the Road: sex
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7bit
I found
this rather poignant description of sex and culture on pages
56-57:
"Then I went to meet Rita Bettencourt and took her back to
the
apartment. I got her in my bedroom after a long talk in
the dark of the
front
room. She was a nice little girl,
simple and true, and
tremendously
frightened of sex. I told her it was beautiful. I wanted
to
prove this to her. She let me prove it,
but I was too impatient and
proved
nothing. She sighed in the dark. 'What do you want out of life?'
I
asked, and I used to ask that all the time of girls.
'I don't know,' she said. 'Just wait on tables and try to get
along,'
she yawned. I put my hand over her
mouth and told her not to
yawn. I tried to tell her how excited I was about
life and the things we
could
do together; saying that, and planning to leave Denver in two days.
She turned around wearily. We lay on our backs, looking at the ceiling
and
wondering what God had wrought when He made life so sad. We made
vague
plans to meet in Frisco.
...Boys and girls in America have such
a sad time together;
sophistation
demands that they submit to sex immediately without proper
preliminary
talk. Not courting talk--real straight
talk about souls, for
life is
holy and every moment is precious."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 23:13:10 -0700
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From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: On the Road: strange passage
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This
paragraph was written in the section where Sal is unhappily living
with
Remi and working as a security guard.
It seems very out of
character
for him.
pg. 73
"Meanwhile I began going to
Frisco more often; I tried everything
in the
books to make a girl. I even spent a
whole night with a girl on a
park
bench, till dawn, without success. She
was a blonde from Minnesota.
There were plenty of queers. Several times I went to San Fran with my
gun and
when a queer approached me in a bar john I took out the gun and
said,
'Eh? Eh? What's that you say?' He bolted.
I've never understood
why I
did that; I knew queers all over the country.
It was just the
loneliness
of San Francisco and the fact that I had a gun. I had to show
it to
someone."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 11:02:47 -0400
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From: MiKe KaNe <SLPrdise@AOL.COM>
Subject: bye
bye
bye.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 23:24:48 -0700
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From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Naked Luch: Joselito
Comments:
cc: SSASN@AOL.COM
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I have
read this particular scene several times and I still don't have a
clue
what happens here. Any clarification on
any level would be much
appreciated. I take it Joselito (a boy?, a woman?) has
tuberculosis and
Carl
has brought the person to a very strange doctor, who insists on
putting
the person in a sanitarium even though Carl wants chemical
therapy. Does Joselito ever speak here, or is it all
Carl and the
doctor? Does Joselito die? Help!
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 17:23:09 +0200
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: On the Road: Chad King
In-Reply-To: <199708210459.XAA03288@dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com>
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Good
mornig friends,
(stated
that CHAD KING in the JK's OTR novel is Hal Chase)
please
check:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/People/
"Hal
Chase left Denver to enroll at Columbia University, and Cassady
traveled
to New York to visit him in December 1946."
saluti,
Rinaldo.
*
The bus
came by and I got on, that's when it all began
There
was Cowboy Neal at the wheel of the bus to Nevereverland'
('The
Other One' by The Grateful Dead)
*
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 09:01:37 -0700
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From: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Re: The Pearl
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>At
08:18 PM 8/20/97 -0700, you wrote:
>"Somewhere
along the line I knew there'd be girls, visions, everything:
>somewhere
along the line the pearl would be handed to me." (p.11)
>david
rhaesa
>salina,
Kansas
>>
>> I wonder if the pearl in the quote
transcribed by David is an allusion to
>>Steinbeck's
novella _The Pearl_. I think that _The
Pearl_ was published
>>about
ten years before _On The Road_ so it's at least possible. If it is an
>>allusion,
the pearl Kerouac expects will be handed to him carries some
>>negative
connotations.
>>Just
musing,
>>James
M.
>Musing
meself,
>
>I'd
think that the pearl (whatever "the pearl" actually is--kind of like
IT)
>probably
more likley refers or comes from the pearl of great price.
>
I think that's what Steinbeck's pearl was all
about. Whether it's an
actual
allusion or not, half the fun of reading is reading things in where
they
may not actually be.
Throw the pearl away,
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 10:58:49 -0500
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From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: nakid lunch and western lands
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have
recieved no beat-l mail for three days.
Are we being quiet or am
i
unsubxcribed?
I tried
to read naked lunch but found it too distrubing. The raw truth
of it
is so beautiful.
I will
go back to reading western lands. It
was thrill for me to read
it the
first time, it is thrilling to reread it.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 12:48:50 -0400
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From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Reich books
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Flatland
#12
Rare
interviews with Eva Reich, MD. As Wilhelm Reich's daughter, Eva Reich
witnessed
the development of his work over 30 years, from the worker's
street
demonstrations in Vienna and Berlin in pre-Hitler Europe, to the
discovery
of orgone ("life energy") biological auto-genesis, weather
engineering
with the cloudbuster, UFO sightings, and WR's persecution and
final
death in prison. She talks candidly about her differences with her
father,
as well as confirming his incredible discoveries.
<http://www2.flatlandbooks.com/flatland/Flatland12.html>
Many
Reich titles at <http://www2.flatlandbooks.com/flatland/reichbks.html>.
FLATLAND,
P.O. Box 2420, Fort Bragg, California. 95437
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 13:01:52 -0400
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: nakid lunch and western lands
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Patricia
Elliott wrote:
>
have recieved no beat-l mail for three days.
Are we being quiet or am
>
> i
unsubxcribed?
>
> I
tried to read naked lunch but found it too distrubing. The raw
>
truth
> of
it is so beautiful.
> I
will go back to reading western lands.
It was thrill for me to read
>
> it
the first time, it is thrilling to reread it.
> p
P:
Did you
get the poems that I posted. One was
for you and Charles and
for
Richard. I posted one yesterday on
Georgetown to Columbia.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 19:07:05 +0200
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Hal Chase.
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Chase
shared a room with Ginsberg and was a close friend of Kerouac's. In
the
fall of 1946, Chase received a visit from his hometown friend Neal
Cassady,
which is the event that begins the book 'On The Road.' Hal Chase
appears
in this novel as Chad King, who later snubs his Denver friend 'Dean
Moriarty.'
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 13:52:42 -0400
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From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: renaming Characters...
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The
idea has been kicked around Kerouac's estate supposedly to re-release
a new
line of Kerouac's books with the names of all the characters
corrected. So you'd get an OTR with "Jack and
Neal" instead of "Dean
Moriarty
and Sal Paradise" It was Kerouac's
oft-expressed desire to do
just
this eventually, that it was publisher paranoia about lawsuits that
prevented
him from using real names in the first place.
Since
Cassady, Burroughs, Huncke, Ginsberg and many, if not most of the
peopleinvolved,
are dead now, the time may be right to start
straightening
out all the confusion.
But
would it demean the books to change the names of wellknown
characters?
Would it make any difference to readers
if "Old Bull Lee"
was
"Old Bill Burroughs"? Is it
taking literary license to change
character
names (even if it was the explicit desire of the author himself?)
RJW
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 13:09:30 -0400
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From: Judith Campbell <boondock@POBOX.COM>
Subject: Re: renaming Characters...
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.970821134624.15260A-100000@cap1.capaccess .org>
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At
01:52 PM 8/21/97 Richard Wallner wrote:
>The
idea has been kicked around Kerouac's estate supposedly to re-release
>a
new line of Kerouac's books with the names of all the characters
>corrected.
((snip))
>But
would it demean the books to change the names of wellknown
>characters? Would it make any difference to readers if
"Old Bull Lee"
>was
"Old Bill Burroughs"? Is it
taking literary license to change
>character
names (even if it was the explicit desire of the author himself?)
Kerouac
stated that he would someday redo the books with a common set of
character
names, but he never indicated, that I have seen, that he intended
to use
the real names. The books are , after
all, novels - even if much of
the
material is biographical. Standardizing
the character names from book
to book
would certainly help the continuity when reading them. Also,
certain
character names seem to stick better to the actual person - to me
Neal is
much more Cody than Dean. But unless he
gave instructions as to
which
names to use, I wonder who would decide.
I
wouldn't like the books changed to reflect the real names, and I doubt if
those
who are still living, Carolyn Cassady for one, would want that
either,
as some of the character portrayals are less than flattering.
Judith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 11:23:55 -0700
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From: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: On the Road: strange passage
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>From:
Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
>
>This
paragraph was written in the section where Sal is unhappily living
>with
Remi and working as a security guard.
It seems very out of
>character
for him.
>
>pg.
73
>
> "Meanwhile I began going to
Frisco more often; I tried everything
>in
the books to make a girl. I even spent
a whole night with a girl on a
>park
bench, till dawn, without success. She
was a blonde from Minnesota.
>
There were plenty of queers. Several
times I went to San Fran with my
>gun
and when a queer approached me in a bar john I took out the gun and
>said,
'Eh? Eh? What's that you say?' He bolted.
I've never understood
>why
I did that; I knew queers all over the country. It was just the
>loneliness
of San Francisco and the fact that I had a gun. I had to show
>it
to someone."
>
Diane,
Sometimes a gun is not just a gun. (insert winking emoticon here)
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 14:35:49 +0000
Reply-To: randyr@southeast.net
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Comments: Authenticated sender is
<randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>
From: randy royal
<randyr@SOUTHEAST.NET>
Subject: Re: renaming Characters...
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as just
another reader, i personally don't give a damn if they rename
all the
characters. but as being somewhat of a historian, i always
did
find it fun to try to reconginze real-life characters in
kerouac's
fiction, which would be taken away if the litle switch up
did
ocour. although this would save me and others time about figuring
out
irrelevant tidbits like the hal chase/ chad king thing, and help
us
greater appreciate the literary value of the work. i don't know.
whichever
desciion is made, i am happy.
cy~a
randy
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 15:39:33 -0400
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From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: New Yorker
Anyone
read the New Yorker? I heard there was something on Kerouac in the
recent
or last issue. I don't know what it was, but I'd be interested in
knowing.
ddr
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 14:35:47 -0700
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From: James William Marshall
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Subject: Re: renaming Characters...
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>From:
Judith Campbell <boondock@POBOX.COM>
>I
wouldn't like the books changed to reflect the real names, and I doubt if
>those
who are still living, Carolyn Cassady for one, would want that
>either,
as some of the character portrayals are less than flattering.
>
>Judith
>
Aren't the true identities of the recurring
characters in Kerouac's novels
relatively
easy to discover?
Still, I wouldn't really want the character
names to be changed either.
The
allegorical names represent the author's poetic penchant.
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 16:04:27 -0400
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From: Frank Nunziata
<Frank_Nunziata@BMGE.COM>
Subject: Re: Lowell Celebrates Kerouac 1997
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I'll
probably be there on Saturday, October 4. Please let me know if you
folks
plan on getting together.
WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET
08/20/97
03:37 PM
Please
respond to BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
cc: (bcc: Frank Nunziata/GC/DDI/US)
Subject: Lowell Celebrates Kerouac 1997
I was
wondering if anyone else was planning on going to Lowell in October.
May
be we
can wear our Beat-l shirts and meet for drinks in the Worthen pub or
some
thing.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 18:05:19 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: wsb's death/ recommendations for US
trip
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What's
going to happen to Lowell celebrates Kerouac when
the
heirs of Jack get legal control of the legacy and
imagery
of the most famous Beat, as Hemingway's heirs have,
in Key
West?
Mike
Rice
At
02:46 PM 8/21/97 +0200, you wrote:
>hi
folks,
>i
just came back from vacation when i heard the sad news about wsb's
>death,
so i turned back to good ole beat-l as fast as possible. i am sure
>there
were a good deal of posts saying something nice about him, his life
>and
his works. too bad that in germany he was only worth a little note in
>the
papers. would anyone be so kind and summarize the talk on the beat-l
>for
me ? (Or is it possible to get the collected posts, bill ?)
>i
didn't read much burroughs so far, but what i read fascinated and
>disgusted
me at the same time (don't get me wrong), he was one of the few
>writers
who knew to wake emotions in me i never felt before. his radical
>lifestyle,
strange and somehow familiar attracts me like only jk's could
>do.
>
>but
i guess it's also just the american lifestyle that attracts me ( the
>ambivalent
(or is it -lence?) of nature and city, literature and crap,
>mcdonalds,
barnes and nobles, cars, weapons, beaches, all that stuff i
>love
and hate. yeah, i know i got a pretty sarcastic cliche marlboro
>country
conception.....anyway, i am coming over and need some good tips
>about
what to do. i start in nyc, then pennsylvania and then i wanna do
>the
"driveaway"-thing wherever it may take me...new orleans and mexico
are
>possible
aims. Lowell, ma. stands also on the list, maybe we could arrange
>a
little beat-l meeting at "lowell celebrates kerouac" ?!
>
>any
recommendations welcome
>and
please excuse me for going to far into this slightly off-topic theme,
>i
am just so excited :)
>
> //
> (o o)
>--------oOO-(_)-OOo------sincerely
> moritz rossbach
> saarbruecken, germany
>
moro0000@stud.uni-sb.de
>
http://stud.uni-sb.de/~moro0000
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 17:04:31 -0400
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From: Judith Campbell <boondock@POBOX.COM>
Subject: Re: renaming Characters...
In-Reply-To:
<199708212135.OAA31119@freya.van.hookup.net>
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At
02:35 PM 8/21/97 James M wrote:
>>From:
Judith Campbell <boondock@POBOX.COM>
>>I
wouldn't like the books changed to reflect the real names, and I doubt if
>>those
who are still living, Carolyn Cassady for one, would want that
>>either,
as some of the character portrayals are less than flattering.
>>
>>Judith
>>
> Aren't the true identities of the recurring
characters in Kerouac's novels
>relatively
easy to discover?
Yes,
but I would think there is a difference between being identified as
the
person that a character was based on, and actually having the character
in the
book named as you. The first leaves
room for literary license, the
later
cuts too close to the bone.
> Still, I wouldn't really want the character
names to be changed either.
>The
allegorical names represent the author's poetic penchant.
Agreed.
Judith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 18:18:22 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: On the Road: strange passage
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"A
woman is only a woman, and a good cigar is a smoke!"
Rudyard
Kipling
At
11:23 AM 8/21/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>From:
Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
>>
>>This
paragraph was written in the section where Sal is unhappily living
>>with
Remi and working as a security guard.
It seems very out of
>>character
for him.
>>
>>pg.
73
>>
>> "Meanwhile I began going to
Frisco more often; I tried everything
>>in
the books to make a girl. I even spent
a whole night with a girl on a
>>park
bench, till dawn, without success. She
was a blonde from Minnesota.
>>
There were plenty of queers. Several
times I went to San Fran with my
>>gun
and when a queer approached me in a bar john I took out the gun and
>>said,
'Eh? Eh? What's that you say?' He bolted.
I've never understood
>>why
I did that; I knew queers all over the country. It was just the
>>loneliness
of San Francisco and the fact that I had a gun. I had to show
>>it
to someone."
>>
>Diane,
> Sometimes a gun is not just a gun. (insert winking emoticon here)
>
> James M.
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 18:22:12 -0400
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From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: renaming Characters...
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.970821134624.15260A-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>
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On Thu,
21 Aug 1997, Richard Wallner wrote:
> Is
it taking literary license to change
>
character names (even if it was the explicit desire of the author himself?)
If it
was the author's explicit desire that would be more the reason to do
it. And
there's no reason that several versions of a work couldn't exist.
(Question
for those in the know -- how many revisions did _On The Road_ go
through
from Jack's first scroll to the Signet paperback or whatever the
first
edition was?)
But a
text can and should be completely changeable; you do this in your
head
anyway when you read a work because your experience (and definition of
words
& their associations) is different from anyone else's. You could, say,
buy a
book and physically change the names in it, or just read it but change
the
names in your mind as you read -- but this is where digital copies have
an
advantage, as any of this can be changed instantly.
email
stutz@dsl.org Copyright (c) 1997
Michael Stutz; this information is
<http://dsl.org/m/> free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL,
and as long
as this sentence remains;
it comes with absolutely NO
WARRANTY; for details see
<http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 18:28:59 -0400
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From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Beat fiction and non-fiction
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I
wonder how much of the Beat canon is pure fiction and how much of it is
non-fiction
[auto]biographical account. All writing is pure autobiography,
but it
seems that a good deal of Beat works (such as just about everything
Kerouac
and Ginsberg wrote) deal with non-fiction, actual events. Why is
this?
And can a Kerouac expert confirm how much of the big works (like _On
The
Road_ and _Visions of Cody_, say) are events that really happened and
how
much are make-believe?
Out of
all of them, Burroughs seems to stick out as the one who has written
the
most "pure" fiction. Even if much of his writing is allegorical
musings
of
real-life events, it seems that a lot is pure fiction, _stories_.
email
stutz@dsl.org Copyright (c) 1997
Michael Stutz; this information is
<http://dsl.org/m/> free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL,
and as long
as this sentence remains;
it comes with absolutely NO
WARRANTY; for details see
<http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 18:52:12 +0000
Reply-To: randyr@southeast.net
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Comments: Authenticated sender is
<randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>
From: randy royal
<randyr@SOUTHEAST.NET>
Subject: Re: Beat fiction and non-fiction
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well
going by the "first thought; best thought" idea, one would
simply
pour everything out onto paper, which is what a.g. and kerouac
did
alot. so you would ultimately be getting a variety pack of loose
fiction
and non-fiction. spontainity does not always follow the laws
of
fiction and non- fiction.
that's
my first thought.
cya~
randy
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Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 17:51:24 -0500
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Beat fiction and non-fiction
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randy
royal wrote:
>
>
well going by the "first thought; best thought" idea, one would
>
simply pour everything out onto paper, which is what a.g. and kerouac
>
did alot. so you would ultimately be getting a variety pack of loose
>
fiction and non-fiction. spontainity does not always follow the laws
> of
fiction and non- fiction.
>
>
that's my first thought.
>
cya~ randy
What
are these Laws? Are they on stone
tablets somewhere?
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 18:55:14 -0400
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: On the Road: Chad King
Reply
to message from MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG of Wed, 20 Aug
>
> Hal Chase and Ed White (Chad King and Tim
Gray in On the Road) were
> roommates and sometime college students
in Denver. Who Kerouac stayed
> with when he first arrived in Denver.
>
I
thought Hal Chase was part of the Joan Vollmer apartment crew from New
York....
Diane.
(H)
--
"I
can't imagine how I ever thought my love might make a difference to him."
--Richard
Powers, _The Gold Bug Variations_
Diane
M. Homza ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 18:55:31 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Mitchell Smith
<Praetor77@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Road: Young adult fiction????
and Chapter 1
I'm
sorry that you received such harrassment from the Race angle on your
committee
but please don't turn around and play the same game by
accusing
me of playing "a card" when that is not what i said at all.
respectfully,
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
Hmm,
doesn't sound to me like I was "play[ing] the same game" as my
committee.
Rather the opposite. And I do believe I was accurate in my
response
to the language that you used--whether your language as given
accurately
represents you as a person, I have no idea. Furthermore, my
response
was directed to the feminist position as a whole, not to any single
adherent
of it.
One
more point on the subject (again, directed toward the topic, not any
particular
person), Kerouac's writing pays too much obeisance to women rather
than
too little. Fawning statements such as "men are too blame" strike me
as
shallow
and far too guilt-ridden.
mjs
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 17:46:27 -0500
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From: LISA VEDROS
<2ndbeat@TELAPEX.COM>
Subject: Second Beat #4
Comments:
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU.
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The
fourth issue of Second Beat, the "religious persecution" issue, has
been
completed, and I must say, all humility aside, it turned out ot be one
HELL of
a great issue. The writing crew relly came through with some
powerful
defense of our rights and our beliefs. I strongly advise that you
check
this one out. I am SO impreesed at the work that was put into this
issue.
In case
you didn't know...after the first two issues of Second Beat, my
religious
nutso uncle wrote us a letter of chasitsment condemning our work,
our
beliefs, and our very persons. He even got one of his "legitimatly"
published
high school friends to write us a simple-simon "You need saving"
letter.
The entire tone of his letter was one of superiority and sarcasm,
therefore
we devoted an entire issue to this, and other forms of religious
persecution.
Send a
buck:
Camellia
City Books
2034
Johnston Station Road
Summit,
MS 39666
Also,
we're still accepting submissions for the Burroughs Memorial issue
until
September 15. Please feel free to submit any type of poetry, prose,
artwork,
or photography.
Thanks,
Thadeus
D'Angelo, Camellia City Books
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Camellia
City Books
Thadeus
D'Angelo & Domenic Salvatore
e-mail:
<2ndbeat@telapex.com>
web
site: <http://www.angelfire.com/biz/2ndbeat>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 19:01:33 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Mitchell Smith
<Praetor77@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Ron W and White Fields Press
It's
very strange if they are still in business. My store and others (who I
referred
to WF because of their great line of products) have had no luck
ordering
from them. I have tried email, mail, telephone, and their website
address
and have gotten no response. I assumed they had called it quits since
they
were turing away paying customers. Derek, if you or anyone is in contact
with
Ron or his business partner, please let me know how to contact them. I
have
good cash money!!
mjs
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:49:22 -0400
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From: MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>
Subject: Re: Beat fiction and non-fiction
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>And
can a Kerouac expert confirm how much of the big works (like _On The
>Road_
and _Visions of Cody_, say) are events that really happened and how
>much
are make-believe?
I've seen, somewhere in one of the
assorted bios on Kerouac that "none
of it is wholly true and none of it is
purely false". I also have
heard a quote by Snyder that he hardly
recognized himself in DB. He
also commented, humorously, that he wish
Jack had told the "kids" to
"roll their sleeping bags up tighter
when they put them in their
packs", since he saw a lot of kids
in the aftermath of that book
hitching down the highway with sleeping
bags trailing behind them.
love and lilies,
matt