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Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 01:35:24 -0500
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: The aggressor.
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Bill
Philibin wrote:
>
>
> Don't use the telephone
>
> People are never ready to
answer it.
>
> Use poetry. --- Jack
Kerouac, 1970.
>
> How on earth did JK say this in 1970?
Medium
?????
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 02:11:56 -0500
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: The Legend of a HAT
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I
mistyped evidently and this just went to Mike when it was supposed to
go to
the Beat-L.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
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Date:
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From:
RACE --- <race@midusa.net>
X-Mailer:
Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version:
1.0
To:
mike@buchenroth.com
Subject:
Re: pics and apology
References:
<3400E474.52EB@sunflower.com> <34013FC5.454D@buchenroth.com>
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Michael
L. Buchenroth wrote:
>
>
Patricia Elliott wrote:
>
> I am sorry for the duplication...
>
***
>
Please send all the duplicate photos you desire. Please send all the
>
duplicate photos you desire. No one No one could possibly mind due to to
>
the precious nature of your imagery!! Pleez Pleez send away!
>
***
>
Besides, cultural history demands it! You have a live legend started
>
with your news, stories, photos, and David sitting there near to
>
Burroughs' hat. I had wondered about that hat a number of times during
>
different days as I remember someone posting once a while back during
>
the "Flame Wars" that Johhny Debb had paid 50,000 bucks for Kerouac's
>
rain coat. I just wondered about Burroughs' hat and hoped it would find
> a
proper context to exist within now that it no longer has that Beat
>
head to travel upon. It appears so!
>
-Michael Buchenroth
NONNONONONOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
The hat
is MYYYY HAT it was given to me by a dear friend who according
to
Legend (and that's all we have these days now isn't it) a Cat named
4X in
some organization titled The Nation of Islam!!! I was just
reading
WSB's letters today about what he'd learned from Islam and
everything
he said i understood intricately from my days under the
tutelage
of the old black Hat. I and a legendary
woman of the time
bought
him a Legendary Malcolm Hat for a legendary birthday present.
Anyone
who goes through Quad Cities America - like in the early pages of
On the
Road - head down to a coffee shop in downtown Rock Island called
AKOP --
All Kind's of People -- run by Herb and John two great guys who
saved
my life more than once and ask about a crazy fucker that used to
wear a
black hat all the time in their place and read poetry about
Yahtzee
and The Short Month (African American history month) and things
like
that and tell them i said hello.
As for
the REAL guy's Hat, last i saw it was artistically placed near
him at
the open casket memorial service -- i supposed in case he decided
to make
a grand departure in the middle of "The Priest They Called Him"
-- and
though i must admit that for more than a second during the
viewing
period as a got closer and closer to the casket i consider
pulling
a switch for it OR just grabbing the old Hat and making a
Snagglepuss
exit stage LEFT and trying to outrun the mob truth right and
justice
took over me and i thought who needs the Hat - i've got this old
Black
Hat that i stalk lawrence with like a Black Cat and yada yada. So
that
clears that one up.
Now as
for my picture under the title WSB and Fletch i understand
something
about pictures connecting with souls and this and that. And
from
Western Lands i have heard it say that according to Legend
(egyptian
i believe which i know rather intimately) that several souls
fly the
old chicken coup right at bodily death and head off for a more
lively
customer, and so perhaps somewhere in my Egyptian hierachy of
soul
(which i might have - who knows - i've replaced some zombied out
higher
souls with WSB & fletch soul particles) at any rate this is about
the
closest that i can come to any possible cosmic significance to the
photo
and caption. But i will always like the
notion of a picture of
WSB and
Fletch coming out of the computer magic universe and looking
just a
bit like me after a long weekend.
So
enough of all that. MY hat is fine and
rests atop my computer
terminal. It is a thinking cap HAT afterall and is
only worn out when i
intend
to (and have alerted all relevant authorities regarding the
intention)
have a few moments in the American Night with a creative
Zing.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
--------------714F43B51B90--
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Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 04:39:24 -0700
Reply-To: mike@buchenroth.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael L. Buchenroth"
<mike@BUCHENROTH.COM>
Organization:
Buchenroth Publishing Company
Subject: Re: The Legend of a HAT
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RACE
--- wrote:
***
Remember
that exercise from grade school where the teacher whispered a
message
to a child; that child whispered the message to the next child;
and
similarly around the class; where the last child had to recite the
message
aloud? The message most often changed. Obviously I provided
insufficient
attention to Patricia's message as I too recited
incorrectly.
And I hope I stand at the end of that line . . .
***
However,
my meaning still stands. The photos prove extremely
interesting,
fun, historical, legendary, literary, etc. and I encourage
more
photo postings. We actually get to look at one another beyond these
hammer
chisel, black white locutions ... as well as participate in
history;
engage legend.
***
Thanks,
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 04:16:23 -0500
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: The Legend of a HAT
Comments:
To: mike@buchenroth.com
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Michael
L. Buchenroth wrote:
>
>
RACE --- wrote:
>
***
>
Remember that exercise from grade school where the teacher whispered a
>
message to a child; that child whispered the message to the next child;
>
and similarly around the class; where the last child had to recite the
>
message aloud? The message most often changed. Obviously I provided
>
insufficient attention to Patricia's message as I too recited
>
incorrectly. And I hope I stand at the end of that line . . .
>
***
>
However, my meaning still stands. The photos prove extremely
>
interesting, fun, historical, legendary, literary, etc. and I encourage
>
more photo postings. We actually get to look at one another beyond these
>
hammer chisel, black white locutions ... as well as participate in
>
history; engage legend.
>
***
>
Thanks,
>
Mike
That is
one of my favourite games from childhood and probably one of my
favorite
games as an adult. I'm not certain if
it was on the list or in
private
correspondence with Arthur Nusbaum that i compared much of what
goes on
in cut-up methods as akin to that game.
Writing is 50 years
behind
painting but all art is centuries behind the games of children i
suppose.
I love
the notions of the pictures being incorporated. I now lack a bit
of
anonymity as i type type type fingers sliding across the keyboard at
their
whim since readers can attach a face to a name - but i also find
that it
is more fun interacting with folks who i've met on route or have
connected
with cybervisually as well as in other manners.
So pass
that one along through the chain of children and hopefully the
last
one will sufficiently edit to the message: cyberpictures are good
things.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 04:37:33 -0500
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Naked Lunch: Benway
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Diane
Carter wrote:
>
>
This actually is beginning to read more like scenes from a movie script,
> or
maybe it's just that the content of Benway reminds me of some old
>
fuzzy Planet of the Apes movie.
I've
been meaning to respond to this note since the day it was sent some
some
some many many years ago in cybertime.
WSB is difficult to read
unless
what Diane is caught here is .... grocked.
In
reading Naked Lunch, it seems to me, the idea of "sketch" or
"routine"
(something akin to the best of contemporary performance art)
is a
necessary form to grasp. I'd read in
the Selected Letters book the
use of
the term "sketch" and then "routine" and had a vision of
sorts of
how to
describe it but wasn't certain that it was Quite right and so had
held
off.
Yesterday
morning while sitting in the filling station booth mindlessly
ingesting
with pure joy the Selected Letters i came across a patch of
words
and brain popped back in to the game and said "that's for the note
you've
been meaning to write about what Diane wrote so long ago". I
said to
brain, by jove you're right! marked the page and moved along to
continue
mindlessly ingesting Selected Letters for breakfast.
This
was the quote from the Letters:
"Gag
for Milton Berle: Feller say I reckon Christ got Mary's immaculate
cherry
on the way out."
And
this fits with exactly my notion of sketch/routine. In our culture
the
extremely progressive side of mainstream american comedy has shifted
along
the way through the years. At the time
of this writing comedy was
a
Milton Berle kind of comedy. And comedy
writers -- the author's role
-- were
portrayed comically in a show called the Dick Van Dyke show.
Still
watch it sometimes. It was comedy
within the comedy - and perhaps
parody
of the Berle type figure. So this was
the edge of culture back
then. What the writer's talked about in that show
was writing
"sketches". These kept going through things like Laugh
In, the Carol
Burnett
show, Love American Style, even the best of the not ready for
prime
time players, secondcity and perhaps even in living color. The
edge in
all of these and performed in "sketches" or "routines".
(unforunately,
this form has been overwhelmed by the "situation" comedy
which
has been poorly attempting to catch up with where it was in the
days of
All in the Family). Enough of this.
I see
WSB in Naked Lunch as writing for something like "The Carol
Burnett
Show from HELL!" - (with a big smile after the hell) If you
take
what was "the edge" of acceptable humor and push it back across the
board
to where it is considered mundane and straight dramatics and then
employ
the same "sketch" technique (a talent only WSB has been able to
master
it seems) a whole new form of humor erupts.
Those who miss the
humor
pigeonhole the writings under categories of "Apocalyptic
Literature"
and whatnot. Missing the whole game of
this routine - the
joy and
laughter of it all ---- afterall should a Naked Lunch being a
sombre
ritual????
Close
to walking through the wards of an
>
ugly insane asylum but I'm always wondering why the narrator is on the
>
outside looking in.
As a
person with some personal expertise in this regard i would say
closer
to the pretty insane asylums coated with the color of paint that
will
induce passivity as if the Thorzine gives color a chance to play
its
tricks. No insane asylums are like
these images for long. A needle
and
leather straps settles the matter fairly quickly. And for those of
us who
are stubborn it settles it very s l o w l y.
But the
notion of it being compleatly "chaotic" by conventional notions
of
decorum is on target. And why would the
narrator stand outside of
this???? The cheap answer would be in the words of
the Bard of
post-Hiroshima
earth: "Wouldn't You?"
The
Benway section alone has my mind chasing in so many subthreads that
i will
have to weed and fertilize and whatnot a bit until they bear
fruit. Hopefully will limit the number of crops
from this planting.
Wouldn't
want to glut the word market.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 04:48:46 -0500
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: NL-Benway-algebra of need for crazy
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The end
of this Benway section hits home for me as one who accepts the
societal
label of crazy -- and get good money to do so -- and sends me
back to
the introduction again and the Algebra of Need.
>From
much of my readings in social psychology, insanity is a fact but it
is a
fact defined within given cultures and societies. It is a socially
constructed
fact. Anthropologists will point to
some characters i know
and say
they'd be highly respected visionaries in their societies while
here
they sit in net of social security control and live the stigma of
those
defined as crazy.
I've
written some essays along these lines before on social theory and
psychiatry
and ....
well
can you all remind me to go back and integrate all the Algebra of
Need
angle ... with the need being Society's need for crazies and
Society
being the addict and the crazies being the junk ... that kind of
thought
into my essay on Reification of Medicalized Being. After we get
through
with talking about all of Beat Literature since Columbus or so
can a
few folks remind me to go back and work WSB in. He is an amazing
social
theorist that fits so well with what is mainline thought in many
ways
and that he -- of course -- wrote about several years before the
publication
of "The Social Construction of Reality". Anyway .... that
was one
of those Benway strings that was clogging my brain. Perhaps i
can
really talk about what's in the chapter now....with the fingers tied
around
our collective finger helping my absent mind.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 05:58:47 -0500
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: HELP!!! - Jenn's Kerouac/Ginsberg
tutorial
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Jenn
Fedor wrote:
>
>
beat members,
>
> i
desparately need the help of anyone who wishes to contribute! i am trying
> to
start a tutorial at New College of USF (which, if you do not know, is a
>
student run and organized course offered for normal course credit) on Kerouac
>
and Ginsberg work. i would really
appreciate all of your input, because most
> of
the vocal members on this list are much more versed in the subject than i.
>
> i
will probably be asking many questions along the way if this is successful,
>
but for now my big question is:
>
Which Kerouac novels would you chose for a course if only 4-5 could be read
>
(please give the top four and a bonus just in case!)?
>
>
What Ginsberg stuff should we read? i
was thinking kaddish and howl and the
>
neal cassady elegies (where are those located?) what else? would the
>
Collected Poems (1947-1980) be
sufficient? i want the kerouac and
ginsberg
> to
be equal.
>
Thank you all so much! i really appreciate
the input! i need as soon as
>
possible! you can send it directly to
me, or through the list - which ever
>
you prefer! you all are the best!
>
-Jenn Fedor
Jenn:
well it
seems that you have had most of the pantheon suggested although
i'd say
that they must know "something" about william burroughs to make
sense
of old bull lee's force in OTR.
i've
had to try and synthesize some of the impossible before and here is
what
i'd do.
Everybody
in the class reads On the Road. Then
parcel out all the
remaining
writings that folks suggested and segments of biographies to
each
person in the class. Depending on class
size you may be able to
expand
the pantheon beyond what has been mentioned on the list. Each
person
is expected to be "the expert" on their extra book or books.
Then no
classes for two or three weeks and everyone learns their
material.
Then
come back and go through On the Road together as a class but with
everybody
bringing their special areas of expertise to the discussion.
The
students in the class "become" the personas of other beat voices or
the
same beat voices at other times. I can
see one kid expert on
Desolation
Angels and Another on Visions of Cody getting into a public
brawl
about what Jack would have meant by "x,y and z" on p. 3998 of On
the
Road.
I hope
this is as simple to you as it sounds.
I've been in classes
where
this method was used. I think it was
"All of Aristotle can be
read as
footnotes to the Rhetoric" and i was the expert on De Anima.
I've
done it classes that i've taught and find that students who are
allowed
and expected to be "the expert" on a subject have a slightly
different
attitude about learning than when they're spoonfed or talked
down
to.
And it
seems that your class situation is non-traditional/experimental
in
nature and certainly it would be in the beat mainline vein to not do
the
class traditionally so that would be by suggestions.
Of
course i'm permanently disabled according to the Teacher's Insurance
Annuity
Association so take these thoughts with a grain of salt (or
pepper)
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 07:04:03 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: HELP WITH DOWNLOADING
In-Reply-To: <3400B5A9.1A9B@sunflower.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
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all the
great attatchments (photos) i have a mac performa, run eudora lite
as
mailer, netscape as browser.
i
cannot for the life of me get the damned jpegs to open properly.
my
brain is filled with many spaces between synapses. a virtual living
breathing
black hole.
many
thanks. i am spamming the group. i know this.
thanks
in advance
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 07:04:07 -0400
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: INTERZONE
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hi all.
instead of doing reading in non-wsb projects, i decided to read
interzone
and the letters out of which reared the formidable naked lunch.
THEN
read naked lunch. i've got so many projects going at once (including
living
around two huge canvases still wet with oils and not stepping on the
palette,
etc. i paint sitting down on a good rug and big palette and
fingerpaint.
interesting method and very satisfying, the way i suppose lots
of
other things (like beats) which are all encompassing in their absorption
and no
intermediary (brush) just me and the pigments.
and
interzone.
mc
any
takers?
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 06:22:05 -0500
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: HELP WITH DOWNLOADING
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Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
>
all the great attatchments (photos) i have a mac performa, run eudora lite
> as
mailer, netscape as browser.
> i
cannot for the life of me get the damned jpegs to open properly.
> my
brain is filled with many spaces between synapses. a virtual living
>
breathing black hole.
>
many thanks. i am spamming the group. i know this.
>
thanks in advance
> mc
i hope
someone helps you so you can see me in William's house and yard.
david
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 06:24:36 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: INTERZONE
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Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
> hi
all. instead of doing reading in non-wsb projects, i decided to read
>
interzone and the letters out of which reared the formidable naked lunch.
>
THEN read naked lunch. i've got so many projects going at once (including
>
living around two huge canvases still wet with oils and not stepping on the
>
palette, etc. i paint sitting down on a good rug and big palette and
>
fingerpaint. interesting method and very satisfying, the way i suppose lots
> of
other things (like beats) which are all encompassing in their absorption
>
and no intermediary (brush) just me and the pigments.
>
and interzone.
> mc
>
any takers?
> mc
i've
been reading the Selected Letters.
Still up to the navel in
Ulysses
with Diane, Stephen and Sherri. I want
to read Interzone - but
don't
know if i can access a copy here. If
you don't have any takers
now --
i'll take your take down the road a piece .... paint a picture of
me
ok.?????
hope
you're doing well.
david
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 10:18:48 -0500
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From: PATRICK <EASTWIND@EROLS.COM>
Organization:
EASTWIND PUBLISHING
Subject: Whereabouts of Gregory Corso
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Anyone
know where Gregory Corso is living today?? Or any info on his
current
activity?
Thanking
you now ...
Patrick
eastwind@erols.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 07:43:13 -0700
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From: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Re: The aggressor.
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>Bill
Philibin wrote:
>>
>>
> Don't use the telephone
>>
> People are never ready to
answer it.
>>
> Use poetry. --- Jack
Kerouac, 1970.
>>
>> How on earth did JK say this in 1970?
>
>Medium
?????
>
>david
rhaesa
>salina,
Kansas
Well
Done!
Sunny side up,
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 09:17:01 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
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From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: HELP WITH DOWNLOADING
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Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
>
all the great attatchments (photos) i have a mac performa, run eudora lite
> as
mailer, netscape as browser.
> i
cannot for the life of me get the damned jpegs to open properly.
> my
brain is filled with many spaces between synapses. a virtual living
>
breathing black hole.
>
many thanks. i am spamming the group. i know this.
>
thanks in advance
> mc
Hey,
you spammer you. Hopefully some Mac head
will answer. However, my
jpegs
were posted in Netscape and several folks who had tried to open
them
with Quick Time, etc, found that the browser itself opened them
just
fine. Antoine Maloney figured this
out. Leon is as good a
resourse
as any since he seems to be a real wire head these days. Good
luck.
James
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 14:08:27 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: HELP WITH DOWNLOADING
Comments:
To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I
couldn't open the JPGs either with 2show.
Are they
mime or
binaries? I can mostly only decode
binaries.
I do
not know how to use uudecode. Does
anyone know
of a
downloadable program that will decode them?
Mike
Rice
At
09:17 AM 8/25/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Marie
Countryman wrote:
>>
>>
all the great attatchments (photos) i have a mac performa, run eudora lite
>>
as mailer, netscape as browser.
>>
i cannot for the life of me get the damned jpegs to open properly.
>>
my brain is filled with many spaces between synapses. a virtual living
>>
breathing black hole.
>>
many thanks. i am spamming the group. i know this.
>>
thanks in advance
>>
mc
>
>
>Hey,
you spammer you. Hopefully some Mac
head will answer. However, my
>jpegs
were posted in Netscape and several folks who had tried to open
>them
with Quick Time, etc, found that the browser itself opened them
>just
fine. Antoine Maloney figured this
out. Leon is as good a
>resourse
as any since he seems to be a real wire head these days. Good
>luck.
>
>James
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 11:39:24 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: HELP WITH DOWNLOADING
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
First
you'd have to answer some questions to see what is happening--where
the
bottleneck is.
Do you
have a file on your computer (most likely called wsbdavid.jpg
and most likely in a folder called
attachments residing in the eudora folder).
If you
have this (and the other) files that means that the files were
decoded
by the eudora program. They still could
be corrupt. Best thing is
to try
to open them with Netscape. If Netscape
cannot open these files you
are
most likely out of luck. They were
decoded incorrectly and corrupted.
These
files are coming as mime attachments.
Download a program called
empack. It is a macintosh mime program--it will
decode or encode files in
mime
format. If you don't have the jpg files
(eg wsbdavid.jpg) then you'll
need
the empack program.
A
program that will decode mime for pc is xferpro. I am sure both of these
ar
downloadable from most shareware sites.
Last
thing, if the mime encoded mesages were not decoded it is possible that
they
are in the mail mesage as a bunch of gibberish. And they may have been
cut
into smaller pieces. You'll have to
save the file as a separate text
files
and decode that file using empack or xferpro.
Feel
free to ask for more details.
At
07:04 AM 8/25/97 -0400, you wrote:
>all
the great attatchments (photos) i have a mac performa, run eudora lite
>as
mailer, netscape as browser.
>i
cannot for the life of me get the damned jpegs to open properly.
>my
brain is filled with many spaces between synapses. a virtual living
>breathing
black hole.
>many
thanks. i am spamming the group. i know this.
>thanks
in advance
>mc
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 15:10:28 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: The aggressor.
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
10:25 AM 8/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>> Don't use the telephone
>> People are never ready to answer it.
>> Use poetry. --- Jack Kerouac, 1970.
>
> How on earth did JK say this in 1970?
>
>
Maybe
it was published after his death in late
1969.
Mike
Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 15:21:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Robert Thomas
<rthomas@CLARK.NET>
Subject: Re: HELP!!! - Jenn's Kerouac/Ginsberg
tutorial
In-Reply-To: <34016567.4636@midusa.net>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon,
25 Aug 1997, RACE --- wrote:
>
the same beat voices at other times. I
can see one kid expert on
>
Desolation Angels and Another on Visions of Cody getting into a public
>
brawl about what Jack would have meant by "x,y and z" on p. 3998 of
On
>
the Road.
Wow, OTR has over 4000 pages, I must have
read the abridged version ;-).
Robert
Thomas
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 15:47:14 +0000
Reply-To: randyr@southeast.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is
<randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>
From: randy royal
<randyr@SOUTHEAST.NET>
Subject: Re: HELP!!! - Jenn's Kerouac/Ginsberg
tutorial
MIME-Version:
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>
Everybody in the class reads On the Road.
Then parcel out all the
>
remaining writings that folks suggested and segments of biographies to
> each
person in the class. Depending on class
size you may be able to
>
expand the pantheon beyond what has been mentioned on the list. Each
>
person is expected to be "the expert" on their extra book or books.
>
Then no classes for two or three weeks and everyone learns their
>
material.
>
Then come back and go through On the Road together as a class but with
>
everybody bringing their special areas of expertise to the discussion.
>
The students in the class "become" the personas of other beat voices
or
>
the same beat voices at other times. I
can see one kid expert on
>
Desolation Angels and Another on Visions of Cody getting into a public
>
brawl about what Jack would have meant by "x,y and z" on p. 3998 of
On
>
the Road.
cool
idea.
rand~y
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 16:11:36 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: HELP WITH DOWNLOADING
In-Reply-To: <199708251839.LAA04426@hsc.usc.edu>
Mime-Version:
1.0
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all ok
guys thanks for the response . i just gave up. ill pay for photos
through
mail sorry about the bandwidth here again, but i'm not sure if
anyone
is out there trying to do this for me.
i bow
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 15:16:51 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: no more pics
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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7bit
I am
getting together with my nerder and we will set up a url (web page.
for a
gallery presentation. They are fun photos but
i have tried to do
this on
my own and can't quite get it. I will
be happy to send anyone
some
photos if they send me their email address. I am sorry for the
chaos.
My e-mail address is pelliott@sunflower.com
p
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 15:27:40 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher
<brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: origin of high
Comments:
cc: gibralto@walrus.com
MIME-Version:
1.0
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> i
was reading an article on hypereal and this guy was saying how the
>
beats were the first and most well-known group who expiernced with
>
writing while high. which we all know.
Well,
check out this page on the Victorian drug scene ...
http://www.walrus.com/~gibralto/acorn/germ/drugs.html
------------------------------------------------------
| Levi
Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
|
|
|
| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (3 years old and still running) |
| |
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
|
|
| *---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---* |
|
|
| we might never, never, never live in
harmony |
------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:23:25 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gary Mex Glazner <PoetMex@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Whereabouts of Gregory Corso
Comments:
To: EASTWIND@erols.com
Dear
Whereabouts of G.C.,
Coroso
says, "Don't worship the beats go to the poetry slam."
I saw
him in the balcony
at
Ginsberg's last
St
Marks reading,
yelling
down at Alan,
Alan
responding like a parent to
a
child, softly, yet firm
and
somewhat exasperated.
"Yes
Gregory, I called you
the
greatest poet."
love
and goatees,
Gary
Mex Glazner
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:19:47 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: no more pics
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Patricia
Elliott wrote:
>
> I
am getting together with my nerder and we will set up a url (web page.
>
for a gallery presentation. They are fun photos but i have tried to do
>
this on my own and can't quite get it.
I will be happy to send anyone
>
some photos if they send me their email address. I am sorry for the
>
chaos. My e-mail address is pelliott@sunflower.com
> p
"i
have accepted chaos" -- bobbie dillon
"one
must harbour chaos within to give birth to a dancing star." fred n.
"chaos
... throw in some dinosaurs visuals and we got a keeper"
attributed
to steve spielberg
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 03:26:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Unabridged OTR (was HELP!!! - Jenn's
Kerouac/Ginsberg tutorial)
MIME-Version:
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Robert
Thomas wrote:
>
> On
Mon, 25 Aug 1997, RACE --- wrote:
>
>
> the same beat voices at other times.
I can see one kid expert on
>
> Desolation Angels and Another on Visions of Cody getting into a public
>
> brawl about what Jack would have meant by "x,y and z" on p. 3998
of On
>
> the Road.
>
> Wow, OTR has over 4000 pages, I must have
read the abridged version ;-).
>
>
Robert Thomas
The
unabridged version is not actually published until 2057. I read it
in a
dreamvision. From the gossip around the
bookstore i read it in,
the
publication was held up for quite some time by estate wrangling over
name
standardization. Each estate sued each
other estate - some suing
to
assure anonymity - others suing to be named credited and for the
estate
of the previous anonymous to receive partial royalties of
unabridged
version. Unabridged version is in 23
Volumes. Each volume
containing
roughly 5000 pages. Volume 12 is
devoted to photography and
visual
arts.
Near
riots outside bookstore prior to opening and book signing by some
editor
from somewhere in sometown in massachusetts (no longer part of
the
united states -- new england shifted allegiance to Canada in the war
of
2026) . . . Potential dissertators salivating at the prospects were
seen
throwing tire irons at hipsters who were just digging the bookstore
scene
and hadn't even heard the new book was out ... they were creating
their
own books and legends but the dissertators (always a paranoid
breed
created by committeeeeeee controls) perceived serious threats to
bodily
persons and potential diplomas and charged the hipsters who were
to busy
digging the scene to notice the paranoia hidden within the
salivating
tire iron throwers. ambulances were
called. they came.
they
left. one onlooker screams don't forget
Rodney King!!!! the
Canadian
Mounties shoot the onlooker.
Thank
goodness the store opened finally and the beat spirit melted the
hostilities.
Newspaper
reporter's headline. New Kerouac Saga
signed in blood by tire
irons. Bastard talkshow host having editor on next
week.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 08:21:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>
Subject: Pre-recorded? (for David Rhaesa & Diane Carter)
Comments:
cc: DAVIDSROSEN@compuserve.com
David
& Diane:
I'm
back from my much-needed vacation, rested, recharged and ready for the
challenges
of a second offspring coming soon, the restoration of a new home
revving
up, and the burdens of the Presidency (of Steppingstone Properties
Ltd.,
that is). I was ready, anyway, until my
first Monday back, only now
winded
down to where I can start to catch up.
I'm ready for another
vacation. Thank you for backchanneling your posts on
Naked Lunch, I've read
them
and today's Beat-L ( I signed back on yesterday). I can't fully respond
to the
galloping discussion until I've caught up with re-reading NL up to
where
you're at, but I'm anxious to get back into the maelstrom. It's late,
I'm
tired and "I can feel the heat closing in", so I'll get right to the
point
about the tortuous issue of pre-recording in the life and work of WSB,
THE
FOREMOST LITERARY FIGURE OF OUR TIME who so suddenly got off the wheel
and is
no longer subject to "the claims of the aging, cautious, nagging,
frightened
flesh". This topic, which I see
you grappling with, is in my
opinion
one of the most constant and complex threads running through the
whole
WSB ouvre. On the one hand, he has
stated that his intention was to
subvert
the pre-recorded universe through cutups, and that he has "succeeded
to some
modest extent" if I'm quoting him correctly. But, as DC has been
pointing
out, it gets very tricky- how can we possibly circumscribe the
perimeters
of the pre-recorded universe, comprehend its limits if any?
Couldn't the subversive discovery, the
"happy accident" be part of the
script? This is where I have an idea, based on
further WSB statements and my
own
small experience with cutups. They are
potentially a key INTO the
pre-recorded
universe, not so much a way OUT of it.
In his introduction to
QUEER,
WSB mentions a cutup phrase: "Raw
peeled winds of hate and mischance
blew
the shot". Upon reflection, he
found that this was a key to
understanding
his motivations as a writer- the "shot" was the one that
accidentally
killed his wife, Joan, and it was the "big bang" (sorry, I
couldn't
help it) that started the process of his "writing (his) way out" of
its
implications and the CONTROL that the "ugly spirit" exerted over him.
This epiphany came after the fact, he could
not change history (subvert the
pre-recorded
universe) but he could UNDERSTAND it better in retrospect. You
may be
familiar with current experiments with the Old Testament, putting its
original
Hebrew text through computer processes that reveal a DNA-like "code"
predicting
and containing all of human history.
But it seems to me, again,
that
all the bombshell revelations come after the fact- for example, a recent
book
claims that Yitzhak Rabin's assasination is predicted in a passage when
the
letters are shown in crossword puzzle patterns. Not recent enough,
though,
to have come in time to warn him not to attend that rally. The
pre-recorded
universe may so far be a step ahead of us.
Hindsight, including
that
provided by cutups or biblical codebreaking, is 20/20. Was WSB getting
closer
to being concurrent with or even ahead of fate? Was this his
intention? Does knowledge = power only in terms of
predicting, and therefore
potentially
changing, fate? WSB's "appalling
conclusion" that the cutup
phrase
led him to was empowering in and of itself, even if he found something
out
long after the fact it was nevertheless a victory against being
helplessly
pulled by strings like a puppet by the "ugly spirit", the
frightening,
unpredictable unfolding of events was brought out of the
darkness
and into the light. And, with every
revelation to which he was so
acutely
attuned, whether from a cutup text or the pattern caused by a
bullet's
impact on a board, he was better prepared for what was ahead. Even
as I
write this, I realize more and more how cyclical and elusive this topic
is. All I can say for now is that he may not
have completely resolved the
issue
of the pre-recorded universe and whether it can be effected, but I
don't
know of anyone who took a braver, deeper crack at it than the immortal
WSB. Another idea I get from my readings is that
his ideas about space
("we're
here to go", as he and Brion Gysin would say), gradually leaving our
bodies
literally as we get beyond the gravitational pull of the planet and
break
free, may have been another attempt, besides and beyond the cutups, to
get
past the pre-recorded space-time tape loop.
Actually,
to some extend all of the foregoing was a digression from NL,
because
with all due respect I still insist that it is not a fully cutup
work,
the mature cutups began with THE SOFT MACHINE.
NL was extracted from
myriad
writings scattered on the floor of his room in Tangier, compiled and
edited
by a succession of Beat cohorts- Ginsberg, Kerouac, Alan Ansen, etc.
In this sense it is a cutup, there never was
an original order, it was
subjected
to the random and disparate influences of others (including the
very
title, which was suggested to him by JK), and as he says near the end,
it can
be re-ordered and read in any combination by the reader, we're all
down
there on the floor with him. The cutups
as defined by him and BG go
further
than this, and were discovered at just about the time that NL was
first
going to (the Olympia) press. The pages
themselves were cut into
quarters,
columns, etc., other texts were inserted at various junctures. NL
precedes
this method in the cutup evolution. The
phrases, routines, etc. are
intact
in themselves, though in no linear order, they float and are
interchangable.
I must
somehow get off this bicycle without a kickstand, today has turned
into
tomorrow and there's always much, much more to all of this. The theme
of
control in NL is I think more microcosmic than universal-macrocosmic,
putting
aside the issue of ultimate pre-recorded control of fate, he
demonstrates
the all-too-human control impulse starting with the stark junk
equation
("the algebra of need") and going further out from there to show
what
more "normal" society is up to.
Regards,
Arthur
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 09:51:51 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Olympia Press
Mime-Version:
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Arthur
mentioned Olympia Press in his post to David today and I noticed that
CBC
(Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) is re-running a show that discusses
Olympia
tonight - Tuesday at 8:00pm.....see below
the story of...
Olympia
Press: it published porn, AND some of the great
novels
of the 20th century. All that and Ian
Brown's essay
on
curling. Sunday Morning on Tuesday Night, this evening
at 8:06
(8:36 NT) on CBC Radio.
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky
and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 10:18:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Pre-recorded? (for David Rhaesa & Diane Carter)
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Arthur
Nusbaum wrote:
>
>
Actually, to some extend all of the foregoing was a digression from NL,
>
because with all due respect I still insist that it is not a fully cutup
>
work, the mature cutups began with THE SOFT MACHINE. NL was extracted from
>
myriad writings scattered on the floor of his room in Tangier, compiled and
>
edited by a succession of Beat cohorts- Ginsberg, Kerouac, Alan Ansen, etc.
> In this sense it is a cutup, there never was
an original order, it was
>
subjected to the random and disparate influences of others (including the
>
very title, which was suggested to him by JK), and as he says near the end,
> it
can be re-ordered and read in any combination by the reader, we're all
>
down there on the floor with him. The
cutups as defined by him and BG go
>
further than this, and were discovered at just about the time that NL was
>
first going to (the Olympia) press. The
pages themselves were cut into
>
quarters, columns, etc., other texts were inserted at various junctures. NL
>
precedes this method in the cutup evolution.
The phrases, routines, etc. are
>
intact in themselves, though in no linear order, they float and are
>
interchangable.
>
Arthur,
so nice
to have you aboard. i must confess that
i failed to forward all
most
posts concerning NL before your return.
Not certain that any of
which
are particularly astute though. Also
i'm doing a separate reading
of NL
with an old friend who introduced me to the audio WSB pantheon and
we are
moving very slowly as he is even less of a linear reader than i
am. And the connections which come from reading
the book with an old
friend
that can bring out so many personal anecdoate unrelated and
incomprehensible
to the rest of the pool of protoplasm out here seems to
make it
a very separate endeavor. Some material
will obviously cross
paths.
The
point i snipped here that you make is something he and i were
clarifying
just last night or this morning who knows with time and
calendars
all very unreliable sometimes. What is
synchronicity when our
computer
clocks -- not to even begin with biological ones -- are not
close
to synchronized.
Here is
the fictional theory i came up with which provides a rather nice
but
probably compleatly inaccurate legend of the origins of cutup and NL
as
relates BG and WSB.
While
reading so far in Selected letters -- through 1956 -- haven't
really
seen a kind word specifically mentioned about BG and awhile back
some
downright nasty nasty perceptions which are probably no longer
accuate
because his perceptions of Paul Bowles have changed in this same
period
of time.
It is
definitely the case that NL is pre-CutUp-technology in a conscious
experiment
BUT the method of sifting through letters and snipping out
words
and pages to splice together in the development of NL is a very
very
obvious fetal form of the process. As
you say NL is compleated or
close
and publishers sought by the time the WSB/BG kismet begins.
Here is
how i see it.
BG. reading naked lunch and hearing about WSB's
method of developing
the
various sketches and routines sees that WSB is doing to the novel
what
montage did to painting and in a rather complimentary fashion ==
since
WSB is at the "cutting edge" so to speak of thing makes the
comment
"Writing is 50 years behind painting." ..........
WSB. Does some painting at this point and
understands BG's notion but
also
knows that he is a man of letters and merely accepting the notion
that
this 50 year gap is there now doesn't require sitting around and
letting
painting stay that far ahead. So the 50
years comment is also a
challenge
of sorts for the novel to catch the fuck up.
The
conversations which follow create the origins and development of
cutup
.... the letter to complete the Yage Letters production ... and
the
range of the soft machine novels and forward for a phase expand on
the
experiment and BG in the bbc studios does it with sound. BG's words
at end
of Ticket that Exploded and WSB Electronic Revolution essay
function
to completely push the envelope of letters into the
post-Hiroshima
timeline.
The SM
etc. novels are at least rooted, in what was "the cutting room
floor"
of Naked Lunch. It seems that
understanding NL's process and
then
the cutting room notions and the whole BG/WSB experimental
explosion
helps appreciate the separateness of the montage but also the
interconnectedness
of the once pieced together parts -- especially as
one
sees glimpses in reading Selected Letters 45-59.
So that
is my take on the subject from SaliVVVVVa Kansas (new spelling
associated
with inversion of Sherrard Illinois into SHIT yard IL) My
whole
being has temporarily become a subsidiary of Islam Inc. and so
with
minutes to go ... screw minutes slow down the clocks we aren't in a
hurry
here are we lets all get the clocks and calendars on the same page
and
slide off into the pH-age with a little breakfast ala nudette from
uncle
bill.
salad-a-lickem,
david
rhaesa
c/o
Islam Inc.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 11:58:59 -0400
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From: Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: OTR movie: Sean Penn?
In-Reply-To: <3402F3B0.712D@midusa.net>
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someone
told me that sean penn has been approached about the neal
cassady/dean
moriarty role in the OTR movie. I think
he'd been as good a
choice
as anyone. Wonder if he's into the
beats though?
RJW
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 10:55:38 -0500
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From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: OTR movie: Sean Penn?
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Richard
Wallner wrote:
>
>
someone told me that sean penn has been approached about the neal
>
cassady/dean moriarty role in the OTR movie.
I think he'd been as good a
>
choice as anyone. Wonder if he's into
the beats though?
>
>
RJW
Sean
Penn, and madonna went to williams art opening in New york and
seemed
quite excited about meeting william.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:55:59 -0400
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From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Naked Lunch: Chapter 1, up to Benway
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>
> RACE wrote:
>
>
> Of course, one must wonder how deep these control notions -- whether
>
> considered metaphorically or literally -- run. Perhaps the river of
>
> scriptural prerecordings is so deep that even the cut-up methods are
>
> just another branch of possible versions of the script that the
>
> controllers pre-recognize -- merely permutations of the obvious script
>
> afterall -- and so the freedom suggested by the cutup is another tool
>
> of
>
> the controllers.
I
suppose then, you could invent your own words or even your own characters
and
language system but that wouldn't do it either now would it?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 18:57:02 +0200
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Who?
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Are you Mr. Allen Ginsberg?
On of them.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 13:34:44 -0400
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From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: renaming Characters...
Comments:
To: randy royal <randyr@southeast.net>
In-Reply-To:
<199708221653.MAA16667@mailhub.southeast.net>
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>
sal paradise never did seem to fit my image of jack, and i'm just
>
some dumb teenager.
>
~randy
>
One
reason Kerouac wanted to eventually rename his characters was to
eliminate
confusion. When "On the Road"
came out, people assumed that he
(Kerouac)
was Dean Moriarty. He had to convince
critics and others that
he was
writing about a real person, that he wasnt just writing boastful
exaggerations
about himself.
He had
to tell people Neal Cassady exsisted...if he'd used Neal'sname,
that
wouldnt have been a problem.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 13:35:08 -0400
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From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Love? What is it?
Comments:
To: "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
In-Reply-To:
<199708241423.KAA06754@piglet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
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On Sun,
24 Aug 1997, Diane M. Homza wrote:
>
Reply to message from pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM of Sat, 23 Aug
>
>
>
>"Love? What is it?
>
>Most natural painkiller what there is
>
>LOVE"
>
> I
found it interesting that he called LOVE the most natural painkiller,
>
since love seems to cause a lot of the pain in the first place.
>
>
(or maybe it's a lack of love that causes the pain....I think that's more
>
right.)
Memory
seems to be at the heart of all pain. So painkilling medicide tends
to
affect the memory centers of the brain, and "time heals all wounds."
To
forget
then is what heals. Does Love help us to forget?
m
email
stutz@dsl.org Copyright (c) 1997
Michael Stutz; this information is
<http://dsl.org/m/> free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL,
and as long
as this sentence remains;
it comes with absolutely NO
WARRANTY; for details see
<http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:38:45 -0500
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From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Love? What is it?
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Michael
Stutz wrote:>
>
Memory seems to be at the heart of all pain. So painkilling medicide tends
> to
affect the memory centers of the brain, and "time heals all wounds."
To
>
forget then is what heals. Does Love help us to forget?
>
> m
patricia
writes
I in my
life, i found that love helped me realize memory. Oh\only
thorugh
forgiveness and love can i stand to remember,and i find my
memories
fuller. It is when i can't find any love that i block things.
the
only part of the memory that is lessened is how much it hurt. But
i was a youth so full of anger that i would
have dreams of axing people
to
death and didn't consider them nightmares.
This is not a beat
response. of william , i always though his goals was
to see.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 20:17:22 +0200
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: (FWd) Who?
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>>From:
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
>>
>> Are you Mr. Allen Ginsberg?
>>
>> On of them.
>>
te1etypEd m3ssag3
>From:
B1FF@SCHIZO.ORG (ALAN YOOOO)
> ONLY THE TRUTH WIL TRIUMPH OVUR DECEPSHUN +
> LAST 4VUR.
>
he had a suitcase
& 3 tHree head of lettuce
or
thr33 headS S of l3ttuCe
th3re is there is
the MAN has a suitcase
he must go
a far tiny voice
you must go1!
U must GO11
televised or t3l3typ3d
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 14:14:28 -0500
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Love? What is it?
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Patricia
Elliott wrote:
>
>
Michael Stutz wrote:>
>
> Memory seems to be at the heart of all pain. So painkilling medicide tends
>
> to affect the memory centers of the brain, and "time heals all
wounds." To
>
> forget then is what heals. Does Love help us to forget?
>
>
>
> m
>
patricia writes
> I
in my life, i found that love helped me realize memory. Oh\only
>
thorugh forgiveness and love can i stand to remember,and i find my
>
memories fuller. It is when i can't find any love that i block things.
>
the only part of the memory that is lessened is how much it hurt. But
>
i was a youth so full of anger that i
would have dreams of axing people
> to
death and didn't consider them nightmares.
This is not a beat
>
response. of william , i always though
his goals was to see.
> p
i'm
with the sunflowers on this one.
REAL-eyes memory
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
"all
in a Day's work" Doc Benway
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:17:12 -0400
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From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: OTR movie: Sean Penn?
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On Tue,
26 Aug 1997, Richard Wallner wrote:
>
someone told me that sean penn has been approached about the neal
>
cassady/dean moriarty role in the OTR movie.
I think he'd been as good a
>
choice as anyone.
yeah.
it's the nose.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 14:17:20 -0500
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Naked Lunch: Chapter 1, up to Benway
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Michael
Stutz wrote:
>
>
> > RACE wrote:
>
>
>
> > Of course, one must wonder how deep these control notions -- whether
>
> > considered metaphorically or literally -- run. Perhaps the river of
>
> > scriptural prerecordings is so deep that even the cut-up methods are
>
> > just another branch of possible versions of the script that the
>
> > controllers pre-recognize -- merely permutations of the obvious
script
>
> > afterall -- and so the freedom suggested by the cutup is another tool
>
> > of
>
> > the controllers.
>
> I
suppose then, you could invent your own words or even your own characters
>
and language system but that wouldn't do it either now would it?
invention
always difficult but have no fear - found this nice quote
today
while researching essay titled "Immaculate Fix" i'm working on --
a
postatomic eulogy to either Ike or Bull Lee by Doc Benway.
"It
may be reassuring to know that Washington has carefully protected
the subliminal
technology of mass media so it doesn't fall into the
wrong
hands." subliminal seduction p.198
gotta
trust those hands
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
"all
in a Day's WORK" Doc Benway treating Andy Warhol
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:39:04 -0700
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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: OTR movie: Sean Penn?
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I think
the biggest problem with this casting is that Penn is too old.
Cassady
was in his early twenties and Kerouac in his mid twenties when the
events
were happening.
The
actors should reflect the youth.
At
11:58 AM 8/26/97 -0400, you wrote:
>someone
told me that sean penn has been approached about the neal
>cassady/dean
moriarty role in the OTR movie. I think
he'd been as good a
>choice
as anyone. Wonder if he's into the
beats though?
>
>RJW
>
>