=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 00:21:55 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: OTR: Old Bull Lee
Diane:
The
passage you quote in your "OTR:
Old Bull Lee" post of today is from the
section
of OTR that is the subject of my essay, "Kerouac Meets Burroughs On
the
Road", my best contribution to this part of the OTR discussion would be
to
dispatch it in its 11 page-61 footnote
entirety. I will nudge a friend
who
served in an editorial capacity in its production and was supposed to get
it onto
my computer through some high-tech transference method to do so asap.
Anyway, you asked: "Does anyone know if (WSB) ever talked about being
pleased
or not pleased with the way Kerouac described him in his books?".
During my (alas, now certainly)
once-in-a-lifetime visit with the Great
Departed
WSB on February 18, 1995, accompanied by my friend referred to
above,
I began to bring up my essay, which I had sent to him, and that it was
based
on the OTR section where Kerouac & Co. visited him in Algiers, LA in
early
1949. Before I could get very far, he
said: "Well, it's partly true-
you
can't always trust Kerouac." He
then brought up the fact that Kerouac
had
helped to create and perpetuate the myth of WSB being a wealthy heir to
the
fortune started by his namesake grandfather who perfected the adding
machine
and established the Burroughs (later Unisys) Corporation. At this
point I
recalled my knowledge of his parents having sold out their interest
in the
company before it took off and were of modestly comfortable but not
wealthy
means. He reminded me that they ran a
gift shop, and I was able to
retrieve
its name from my mental storehouse of Burroughsiana- Cobblestone
Gardens. He smiled and began to warm up to us at the
mention of the place,
and
told us how he had gone to trade shows with his father, and that he had
found
this "a lot more interesting" than if he had been a corporate heir.
I'll never forget sitting right across from
him, I was on a couch and he was
seated
in a wheelchair, though not bound to it- he was mentally and
physically
in very good shape, it may have been a relic from the recovery
period
after his major heart surgery of about 4 years before my visit. To
his
right was a table where he had lit incense when we first arrived, there
were
also gun magazines and the book he was reading at that time, the second
volume
of a Graham Greene biography.
I could
go on and on, and will finally set it all down, but I digress from
the
issue you addressed. I think that he
greatly respected JK, indeed he has
confirmed
his high regard for his work. But, as
he told me himself and in
interviews,
especially in the (excellent) film biography WHAT HAPPENED TO
KEROUAC,
JK had a tendency to categorize and mythologize people and events in
his
writings. Of course, this is part of
what makes JK great and timeless,
still
vital and being discussed by us nearly 3 decades after his death. But
this
tendency could backfire on his subjects, and on himself. His portrayal
of Dean
Moriarty in OTR got both Neal Cassady and himself in a lot of trouble
in
their time- the shy, observant JK mistaken for the extroverted NC, and NC
subjected
to the not always welcome notoriety that helped lead to his
imprisonment for selling a few joints to an undercover
shit (as opposed to a
Johnson). I never returned to the thread of the OTR
section after his
comment,
but I believe that he was speaking more about JK in general than
about
that particular item. As my essay
expounds in more detail, I think
that JK
accurately observed and prophetically imparted much of the essence of
WSB's
life and work as it would unfold in the years ahead. There's nothing
that
seems exaggerated or false (other than names) in this section,
crossreferenced
with the facts that can be verified, it is HEIGHTENED by JK's
glowing,
energetic prose. But perhaps WSB was
thinking of the actual events
of that
encounter, or earlier in his life that JK recounts in the passage you
quoted,
and remembered them differently. In any
case, it has to be strange
to see
oneself depicted by someone else, even if the facts are straight the
style
and perspective is from another eye and mind.
When it comes to the
Beats,
they and their works are so inter-referential between each other that
the
issue of what they thought of and how they were effected by these
references
and descriptions is very critical and interesting. For some
reason
I'm reminded of the scenes in the BURROUGHS film biography where
Herbert
Huncke says that he "rather resented having a scrawny neck" the way
WSB
describes first meeting him in JUNKY, although he then goes on to say how
honored
he was to have been included in it. WSB
defends himself, insisting
that
all he wrote was "that his neck was loose in the collar of his shirt",
which
is "not at all the same" as what he thinks Huncke reads into it. I'm
sure an
entire lengthy book could be written comparing famous descriptions in
literature,
especially by the Beats, with actual remembrances. Not only is
the
truth stranger than fiction, but it's not as easy to grasp or amenable to
consensus
as the term "fact" implies.
Regards,
Arthur
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 00:42:28 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Hipster Beat Poet."
<jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
Subject: "Thee Films 1950s-1960s"
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
has
anyone seen this film on video? I bought a copy two years ago and it
includes
the following:
- william buys a parrot
-towers open fire
- the cut ups
- bill and tony
- ghosts at no. 9 (paris)
the
video runs for 2 hours and i highly recommend it. I would like to
know
how many official videos are available aside from this one and Naked
Lunch
(Cronenberg) that talks about Burroughs (not counting Drugstore
Cowboy
or other scripted films).
thanks,
jason
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 23:43:31 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: OTR: Old Bull Lee
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Arthur
Nusbaum wrote:...
my best contribution to this part of the OTR
discussion would be
> to
dispatch it in its 11 page-61 footnote
entirety. I will nudge a friend
>
who served in an editorial capacity in its production and was supposed to get
it onto my computer through some high-tech
transference method to do so
asap....
>
Regards,
>
>
Arthur
Arthur,
thank
you for an excellant post. I have
certainly enjoyed getting to
know
you on this list. At a cocktail party
we might be across the room
but in
this room i hear your thoughts, they remind me to think. I am
amazed
how many ways this list makes me stretch.
on the
subject of literary license i was surprised that some people
didn't
realize that William would turn an historical event or figure
into
what ever creature he wanted. I remember the abandon he showed in
changing
the true history of typoid mary into just a slightly different
one, one that suited his aim. I wonder if people are confused by
that. I think I understand it, but I was lucky
enough to see his mind
loving
to turn things over and around, trying on the cloth, first as a
coat,
then a cloak, and it finally turning itself into a hat. Oh did i
carry
the thread analogy a bit too broad.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:53:56 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: check this out
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi,
folks! August 31, 1997
There's a big article on Kerouac in
the Washington Post Book World
by
Bruce Cook today, August 31, 1997. It's
a very good assessment and I'm
not
biased, even though he does pronounce MEMORY BABE the best book on Jack
Kerouac! In the same issue, I have a front-page piece
on homeless Vietnam
vets. You can check out both articles by going to
the website
www.washingtonpost.com
and then going to "Style" and from "Style" to "Book
World."
More later. Best always, Gerry Nicosia
(Since I'm no longer on Beat-List, you
need to respond to me
directly,
if you wish.)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 01:33:21 -0700
Reply-To: mike@buchenroth.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael L. Buchenroth"
<mike@BUCHENROTH.COM>
Organization:
Buchenroth Publishing Company
Subject: Re: 1/4-million 78-RPMs
Comments:
To: cveditions@aol.com
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
I
reprinted this AP story from Columbus Dispatch Saturday 8-30-97 for
anyone's
possible interests ...
At
bottom, I put jpegs of the article and the accompanying photo...
250,000
VINTAGE RECORDS TO BE AUCTIONED OFF
* The
collection includes recordings by Billie Holiday, Louie Armstrong
and
Duke Ellington.
by Jeff
Baenen,
Associated
Press
EAST
BETHEL, Minn. -- Hart Callender locked a treasure trove away in his
basement,
a time warp into the sounds of Billie Holiday, Frank Sinatra
and
Benny Goodman on 250,000 vintage vinyl records.
Most of
the 78-rpm records are in mint condition, sealed in their
original
wrappings with nary a needle scratch on their surface.
For
collectors, an auction of the grooved vinyl this weekend sounds
better
than any garage sale of any dusty old platters.
No. 1,
it's a collection of "new" old records. That's the Twilight Zone
analogy,"
said Arne Fogel, an entertainment historian. "The second thing
is, the
door shut on an inventory that existed for the taste (of 1951),
and
suddenly the doors are open again in 1997, and it's a reflection of
midcentury
music taste."
Callender,
the self-proclaimed "King of Records," started his first
record
store in 1928, eventually owning two stores in St. Paul and one
in
Minneapolis. He closed his Minneaplois shop in the 1940s and
apparently
was consolidating his two other stores when he was injured in
a
traffic accident on New Year's eve 1951.
He shut
his business and stockpiled the records. He later turned to a
living
in real estate. Daughter Caroline Dahl of Lino Lakes, Minn., said
she
never knew why her father packed away his quarter-million albums.
Even
after he closed, he
kept Hart's
Record Shop listed in the Yellow Pages until a few years
ago.
"I
think in the back of his mind he always kept saying he was going to
open
the store. But it never materialized," Dahl said.
For
collectors, an auction of the grooved vinyl this weekend sound
better
than any garage sale of dusty old platters.
Callender
died in 1996 at 88, and his wife, Olivia, died this summer at
89.
After his death, the family moved the inventory to a warehouse.
Now
stacks of 78s, and some 33 1/3-rpm long players are piled high at
Smith's
Little Auction House for sale today (Saturday 8/30/97) and
Sunday.
Jazz
giants such as Holiday, Charlie Parker, Louie Armstrong, Gene Krupa
and
Duke Ellington are represented. Classical and children's albums
share space
with country artists Tex Ritter and Gene Autry.
Among
the rare works up for bid are four sets of The Jazz Scene, a multi
record
collection signed and numbered by jazz impresario Norman Granz.
They
could fetch $1,500.00 apiece, said Jon England of American Estate
Services,
who joined Smith's Auction in buying the collection from
Calendar's
children for an undisclosed sum.
Long-playing
records began replacing the 78s in the late 1940s. Compact
discs
came to dominate the industry in the past decade.
But the
grooved vinyl still has a fascination for collectors over shiny
CDs.
"Is more of an object. It's like the aura of the object," said Rich
Shelton,
a record collector from St. Paul Minn., who plans to attend.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 01:53:30 +0000
Reply-To: randyr@southeast.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is
<randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>
From: randy royal
<randyr@SOUTHEAST.NET>
Subject: Re: "Thee Films 1950s-1960s"
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-type:
text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding:
7BIT
>
has anyone seen this film on video? I bought a copy two years ago and it
>
includes the following:
> - william buys a parrot
> -towers open fire
> - the cut ups
> - bill and tony
> - ghosts at no. 9 (paris)
>
the video runs for 2 hours and i highly recommend it. I would like to
>
know how many official videos are available aside from this one and Naked
>
Lunch (Cronenberg) that talks about Burroughs (not counting Drugstore
>
Cowboy or other scripted films).
i
believe waterrow books has this tape.
> thanks,
> jason
>
randy
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 03:46:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sinverg=FCenza?=
<ljilk@MAIL.MPS.ORG>
Subject: Re: OTR movie
In-Reply-To: <3409B6F5.42E@rivnet.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable
"g. jones"
<xcrslnk@rivnet.net> wrote:
>hi
leo,
>
>have
you read 'a clockwork orange'? i just got it but my mom thinks
>i
won't understand it. maybe i'm wrong. maybe sometimes it is better
>to
watch a movie first? what do you think?
>
>steph
>
I
personally would always try to read the book first, but in the case of
Mother
Night, i would've had to find out which book it was based on first;
probably
the easiest way of doing so is watching the credits of the movie.
It
seems to me watching a book-based movie before reading the book could
limit
your imagination in the reading of the book afterward, the most
important
thing though, being not to let a film discourage you from reading
the
book it's based on, because who knows what the director was thinking,
or how
the script was adapted. i've never read clockwork orange or seen the
movie.
leo
"Let
us hope that the whores of evil no longer loiter on the doorsteps of
your
path, beckoning you into the brothel of despair, and that hereinafter,
you may
present them with the most rigid manifestations of a firm and manly
will.
Ad astra per aspera." --Jack
Kerouac
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 05:42:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <vmooney@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: Mother Night
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
This
one isn't too hard to figure out...seeing as it is based on Vonnegut's
novel
of the same title!
Date:
Monday, September 01, 1997 3:46 AM
Leo
wrote:
I
personally would always try to read the book first, but in the case of
Mother
Night, i would've had to find out which book it was based on first;
probably
the easiest way of doing so is watching the credits of the movie.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 06:54:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: (OTR Movie)/ stamp me stoopid, but...
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.970831210419.23857A-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
someone
somewhere sometime wrote:
It
saddens me that some of you dont understand how beautiful it would be
to have
a closing scene in the film that shows Jack's vision of Neal-- a
scene
that even in showing the sad circumstances of his death, seems to
confirm
how special Jack always thought he was.
_______
ok ok i
can't sit on my hands any more about this damned thread:
i begin
with a disclaimer that i have no hope invested that any movie made
of OTR
by any director and with any cast could successfully evoke the book
without
reducing it to mediocrity.
now to
the thread's insanity:
what
the hell is wrong with all of you guys and yr obsession (or delusion -
i tip
my hat to dave from salinas, kansas) to make a movie of OTR that ends
with
neal's death walk on the tracks in west coast, when
THE
BOOK DOES CLOSE WITH A VISION OF NEAL that is as evocative and that
foreshadows
neal's dying much further up down the road.
when
the last sal saw of dean (in the BOOK) standing on a street corner in
new
york, it was a forlorn dean raggedy and rejected dean standing on the
street
with jack looking backwards out of a car window at him.
i
cannot understand everyone's obsession to have a huge jump in time to
dean
walking the rr tracks to his death, it is forshadowded in the book's
ending and should i believe stay that way.
i quote
from the OTR, from JK himself:
(Remi
has just refused to let neal ride uptown with JK and himself in NYC):
"so
dean couldn't ride uptown with us and the only thing i could do was sit
in the
back of the cadilac and wave at him. the bookie at the wheel also
wanted
nothing to do with dean. dean, ragged in a motheaten overcoat he
bought
specially for the freezing temperatures of the East, walked off
alone,
and the last i saw of him he rounded the corner of seventh avenue,
eyes on
the street ahead, and bent to it again. poor little laura, my baby,
to whom
i'd told everything about dean, began almost to cry.
'oh we
shouldnt let him go like this,. What'll we do?'
Old
dean's gone i thought and out loud i said 'he'll be all right.' and off
we went
to sad and disinclined concert for which i had no stomach whatever
and all
the time i was thinking of dean and how he got back on the train
and
rode over three thousand miles over that awful land and dnever knew why
he had
come anyway, except to see me.
so in
america when the sun ges down and sit
on the old broken-down river
pier
watching the long, long skies over New jersey and sense all that raw
land
that rolls in one unbelievable huge bulge over to the west coast and
all the
road going, all the people dreaming in the immensity of it, and in
iowa i
know by now the children must be crying in the land whre they let
their
children cry, and tonight the stars'll be out, and don't you know
that
god is pooh bear? the evening star must be droopin and shedding her
sparkler
dims on the prairie, which is just before th coming of complete
night
that blesses the earth, darkens all rivers, cups the peaks and folds
of the
final shore in, and nobody, nobody knows what's going to happen to
anybody
besides the forlorn rags of growing old, i think of dean moriarty,
i even
think of old dean moriarty the father we never found, i think of
dean
moriarty."
this
passage makes to me the most poignant ending, to see jack waving from
the
back of the caddie, and jack sitting on pier shortly afterwards with
(perhaps
a voice over )as jack sits and thinks of dean moriarty in the sad
rags on
the corner..
so in
this insane thread about who should play whom,
i say
let BARNEY play all the roles, as the king of mediocrity and all that
is
scary in our plastic amerikan culture.
happy
monday everyone.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 06:03:27 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: (OTR Movie)/ stamp me stoopid,
but...
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
>
someone somewhere sometime wrote:
> It
saddens me that some of you dont understand how beautiful it would be
> to
have a closing scene in the film that shows Jack's vision of Neal-- a
>
scene that even in showing the sad circumstances of his death, seems to
>
confirm how special Jack always thought he was.
>
_______
> ok
ok i can't sit on my hands any more about this damned thread:
> i
begin with a disclaimer that i have no hope invested that any movie made
> of
OTR by any director and with any cast could successfully evoke the book
>
without reducing it to mediocrity.
>
now to the thread's insanity:
>
what the hell is wrong with all of you guys and yr obsession (or delusion -
> i
tip my hat to dave from salinas, kansas) to make a movie of OTR that ends
>
with neal's death walk on the tracks in west coast, when
>
THE BOOK DOES CLOSE WITH A VISION OF NEAL that is as evocative and that
>
foreshadows neal's dying much further up down the road.
>
>
when the last sal saw of dean (in the BOOK) standing on a street corner in
>
new york, it was a forlorn dean raggedy and rejected dean standing on the
>
street with jack looking backwards out of a car window at him.
> i
cannot understand everyone's obsession to have a huge jump in time to
>
dean walking the rr tracks to his death, it is forshadowded in the book's
>
ending and should i believe stay that
way.
> i
quote from the OTR, from JK himself:
>
(Remi has just refused to let neal ride uptown with JK and himself in NYC):
>
"so dean couldn't ride uptown with us and the only thing i could do was
sit
> in
the back of the cadilac and wave at him. the bookie at the wheel also
>
wanted nothing to do with dean. dean, ragged in a motheaten overcoat he
>
bought specially for the freezing temperatures of the East, walked off
>
alone, and the last i saw of him he rounded the corner of seventh avenue,
>
eyes on the street ahead, and bent to it again. poor little laura, my baby,
> to
whom i'd told everything about dean, began almost to cry.
>
'oh we shouldnt let him go like this,. What'll we do?'
>
Old dean's gone i thought and out loud i said 'he'll be all right.' and off
> we
went to sad and disinclined concert for which i had no stomach whatever
>
and all the time i was thinking of dean and how he got back on the train
>
and rode over three thousand miles over that awful land and dnever knew why
> he
had come anyway, except to see me.
> so
in america when the sun ges down and
sit on the old broken-down river
>
pier watching the long, long skies over New jersey and sense all that raw
>
land that rolls in one unbelievable huge bulge over to the west coast and
>
all the road going, all the people dreaming in the immensity of it, and in
>
iowa i know by now the children must be crying in the land whre they let
>
their children cry, and tonight the stars'll be out, and don't you know
>
that god is pooh bear? the evening star must be droopin and shedding her
>
sparkler dims on the prairie, which is just before th coming of complete
>
night that blesses the earth, darkens all rivers, cups the peaks and folds
> of
the final shore in, and nobody, nobody knows what's going to happen to
>
anybody besides the forlorn rags of growing old, i think of dean moriarty,
> i
even think of old dean moriarty the father we never found, i think of
>
dean moriarty."
>
this passage makes to me the most poignant ending, to see jack waving from
>
the back of the caddie, and jack sitting on pier shortly afterwards with
>
(perhaps a voice over )as jack sits and thinks of dean moriarty in the sad
>
rags on the corner..
> so
in this insane thread about who should play whom,
> i
say let BARNEY play all the roles, as the king of mediocrity and all that
> is
scary in our plastic amerikan culture.
>
happy monday everyone.
> mc
thanks
for the tip of the hat.
i would
hope that those working on this alleged movie would read more
than
OTR .....
i like
a lot of movies. i like a lot of
books. even when they have the
same
name i don't try to compare them b/c they ain't the same creature
... the
medium being the massage and all that jazz.....
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 06:06:50 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: diane carter -- backchannel technical
difficulties
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
dc:
finally
got biological family commitments compleated and started to
catch
up on correspondence. I believe the
hamsters in our backchannel
connection
are on strike as my mail in your direction keeps coming back
saying
some kind of error and they'll try again in 4 hours for 4 days or
somesuch.
if the
hamsters are on strike, i wonder what their demands are????
have a
pleasant Labouring Day.....
dbr
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 06:16:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Happy Accidents (Was Re:
Pre-recorded? (for David Rhaesa &
Diane
Carter))
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Diane
Carter wrote:
>
> what I found
>
illuminating in your analysis was that Burroughs words are a key INTO the
pre-recorded universe and can serve as a
guide for understanding as
>
opposed to a map or way out of the pre-recorded universe. Does that then mean
that cut-ups lead to new ways of seeing and
understanding, that they are in
fact "happy accidents?"
My take
on this is that it is a maybe - maybe not kind of thing. I'm
not
certain of the name of the old LP where i was introduced to WSB's
thoughts
and words, i believe it is "breakthrough in the grey room" and
i guess
that it is in cd form these genX days.
Happy
Accidents. Not certain about notion of
accidents i guess i'd say
that
probably accidentals. Kind of was a big
influence on much of my
thinking
on accidents and non-accidents and probability in "Yahtzee" i
suppose.
The
line that still haunts my brain: "How random is random ... we know
so much
that we don't know that we know ......"
this from Breakthrough
in Grey
Room somewhere i believe (at least on the LP) or perhaps an
auditory
hallucination while listening to Breakthrough in Grey Room in a
Mystical
Blue Room in Iowa.
Also
not certain about HAPPY with regard to accidents. Not necessarily
all
Happy -- at least not early on in WSB's writings. Certainly the
Happy
is present sometimes but also this notion of "Ugly Spirit" that
one
picks up here and there in his writings up through ..... (when).
Wonder
if the natural painkiller of Love conquers the Ugly Spirit in the
end??????
It
seems to boil down to the fact that if Burroughs believed in a
one-God
universe, it was conversely a God playing with creation in the
same
way that Burroughs as a writer created and played with his universe
of
words.
> DC
A
playful and magical universe regardless of who is pulling the strings
and
whether the technicians and hamsters "know which buttons to push."
dbr
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 23:18:54 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: David Rhaesa -- backchannel
technical difficulties
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>
RACE --- wrote:
>
>
dc:
>
>
finally got biological family commitments compleated and started to
>
catch up on correspondence. I believe
the hamsters in our backchannel
>
connection are on strike as my mail in your direction keeps coming back
>
saying some kind of error and they'll try again in 4 hours for 4 days
> or
>
somesuch.
>
> if
the hamsters are on strike, i wonder what their demands are????
>
>
have a pleasant Labouring Day.....
>
>
dbr
David--None
of my mail is getting thru to you either and a couple came
back
with the 4 hr. error. Do you have any
idea what's going on? I'm
still
getting all other mail except your's, including everyone else in
the
Ulysses group. We've to cut some kind
of deal with the hamsters
because
this is really frustrating.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 10:43:23 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: David Rhaesa -- backchannel
technical difficulties
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Diane
Carter wrote:
>
>
> RACE --- wrote:
>
>
>
> dc:
>
>
>
> finally got biological family commitments compleated and started to
>
> catch up on correspondence. I
believe the hamsters in our backchannel
>
> connection are on strike as my mail in your direction keeps coming back
>
> saying some kind of error and they'll try again in 4 hours for 4 days
>
> or
>
> somesuch.
>
>
>
> if the hamsters are on strike, i wonder what their demands are????
>
>
>
> have a pleasant Labouring Day.....
>
>
>
> dbr
>
>
David--None of my mail is getting thru to you either and a couple came
>
back with the 4 hr. error. Do you have
any idea what's going on? I'm
>
still getting all other mail except your's, including everyone else in
>
the Ulysses group. We've to cut some
kind of deal with the hamsters
>
because this is really frustrating.
> DC
some
sort of integallactic magnetic shifting i suppose. my sense is
that if
we both eat an apple it will clear up within eight hours or so.
dbr
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 12:13:28 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: (OTR Movie)/ stamp me stoopid,
but...
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 1 Sep 1997 06:54:42 -0400
from <country@SOVER.NET>
I vowed
I wouldn't enter into the fray on this thread which I'm pretty
tired
of, but I have to agree with Marie. The
book has a GREAT ending.
IF I
WERE MAKINGa film, I'd go with it: Bleak rainy night in NYC fade to
late
afternoon sunset over New Jersey or maybe even West Coast sunset
with
last paragraph being narrated.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 14:28:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alison Flynn
<Limeskydip@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Mother Night
Mother
Night was one of the worst movies I've ever seen.
On the
other hand, the book is pretty good. Don't watch the movie. Nick Nolte
still
hasn't discovered that he can't act.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 14:59:29 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: (OTR Movie)/ stamp me stoopid,
but...
In a
message dated 97-09-01 14:51:25 EDT, you write:
<<
so in this insane thread about who should play whom,
i say let BARNEY play all the roles, as the
king of mediocrity and all that
is scary in our plastic amerikan culture.
>>
yeah,
but is Barney beat?
heee
heeeeee heeeee.....
ddr
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 15:06:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jenn Fedor <Tread37@AOL.COM>
Subject: ALLEN GINSBERG AT NEW COLLEGE
i have
a quick story to tell you all about allen ginsberg's trip to my
college,
new college of the university of south florida last year.
well,
he came and performed poetry and lectured and was outstanding. it was
amazing! but while he was here, someone gave him a
picture of a man with a
carrot
stuck up his ass. well, AG said he wouldn't sign it because it
wasn't
his ass. then he hit on one of the
students here for a half and hour.
the boy was a bit perturbed, but his
girlfriend thought it was hysterical.
i love
allen ginsberg and his work, but that just cracked me up!
oh, and
thanks y'all for all your help with my tutorial - it really helped a
great
deal!
bit of
info. before i sign-off for the day
jenn
:o)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 16:29:43 -0400
Reply-To: "William N. Gay"
<wgay@zoo.uvm.edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "William N. Gay"
<wgay@ZOO.UVM.EDU>
Subject: Re: (OTR Movie)/ stamp me stoopid,
but...
In-Reply-To:
<l03020900b0300d15117d@[206.25.67.114]>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Marie,
I
couldn't agree more. What's more poignant than the book itself and our
own
personal relationships with it? Could a film ever do this book justice
in the
opinion of those to whom it is most important? I don't think so.
All it
would do is thinly glamorize and likely trivialize, maybe make some
Hollywood
merchants richer. For my bit, I've had enough of that.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 15:36:29 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: (OTR Movie)/ stamp me stoopid,
but...
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
William
N. Gay wrote:
>
>
Marie,
>
> I
couldn't agree more. What's more poignant than the book itself and our
>
own personal relationships with it? Could a film ever do this book justice
> in
the opinion of those to whom it is most important? I don't think so.
>
All it would do is thinly glamorize and likely trivialize, maybe make some
>
Hollywood merchants richer. For my bit, I've had enough of that.
all of
this could be true and will be -- but from another "angle" in the
infinity
of "angles" it may expose a whole new generation to these
characters
and then those with inclinations towards the art of reading
will
perhaps follow the road of the movie into the many corners of the
written
history of these figures as in OTR and in all the other many
veins
and threads, strings and strands of this rich material.
dbr
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 17:32:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Kerouac Quarterly
In a
message dated 97-08-31 09:25:01 EDT, you write:
<<
Hi Attila, since I have so much to choose from recently it has delayed my
publication (change of cover, added text
etc.). I will have it ready for the
Kerouac Festival. The rates are $5.00 (USA)
$7.00 (overseas and Canada).
Vol. I, No.2 will be between 40 to 50 pages.I
don't take full-year
subscriptions as yet until I can get on a
stable publishing pattern. Take
care and thanks, Paul...
>>
I think
I may have your address, but please send it again,
thanks,
Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 18:53:38 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: (OTR Movie)/ stamp me stoopid,
but...
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997090112180136@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon,
1 Sep 1997, Bill Gargan wrote:
> I
vowed I wouldn't enter into the fray on this thread which I'm pretty
>
tired of, but I have to agree with Marie.
The book has a GREAT ending.
> IF
I WERE MAKINGa film, I'd go with it: Bleak rainy night in NYC fade to
>
late afternoon sunset over New Jersey or maybe even West Coast sunset
>
with last paragraph being narrated.
>
I love
the ending too...I was saying to add the "neal on the tracks", not
use it
to replace the current ending. Some
imagery is going to be needed
on the
screen so that the narratar can read the last passage from the
book. It doesnt need to be read over the closing
credits.....theblack
and
white part of the film would end with the end of the book scene, and
the
color scene of the older Neal walking on the tracks would be shown in
conjunction
with the reading of the last passage ..."I think of Dean
Moriarty,
I think of old Dean Moriarty that we never found..." .etc
Like it
or not, more people will see the OTR film than will ever read the
book or
ever have read the book. It will be a
vehicle to turn millions
of
people onto Kerouac. The whole point of
making the movie is to get
people
to read the books.
ANYONE
who really cares about preserving Kerouac's legacy and turning
more
people onto it has to be into the idea of it being a film.
There
are obviously people on this list who are on it because they knew
certain
people personally, not because of any great passion for the
literature.
We all
value their recollections but I resent the implication that one
had to
know these people to have a connection to them.
Richard
W.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 19:59:32 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Some Of Dharma, Kerouac book
Hello:
The new
Some of the Dharma is out, and I was wondering if anybody read it
(maybe
they got a review copy a while back) and are interested in writing a
review
of it for inclusion in the next issue of DHARMA beat, a Jack Kerouac
publication.
If you are interested, please let me know as soon as possible,
as I
would need the review within 7 days.
thanks
and enjoy,
Attila
editor, DHARMA beat
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 20:00:36 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: OTR film
In a
message dated 97-09-01 09:22:10 EDT, you write:
<<
I think the movie should be shot in black and white, except for the
opening
and closing scenes, which would be color
shots of Neal Cassady walking
shirtless on the train tracks in mexico,
counting the tracks right before
his death. >>
That is
not how the book ends, and I'm not trying to start anything, but why
wouldn't
the film end the same way the book ends.
3 ways
to shoot the film:
1 -
just shoot the book, and don't think about Jack and Neal. Shoot the film
about
and Sal and Dean. Shoot what was written in the book, not what you
think
was really happening.
2 -
shoot what really happened to Jack and Neal. You don't have to follow the
book,
the actual events should be followed (by what you think happened
anyway)
3-
don't worry about shooting the book or the actual events, but try to
capture
the spirit and visions as the book did to a generation 40 years ago.
NO
COMPROMISE
just my
own direction, Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 20:02:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Burroughs Video
Just
saw a show on cable with Burroughs in it, kind of like a Christmas Carol
Story,
with him doing the voice over with clay animation (the guy is willing
to give
up his nod to a guy in need- kidney stones). It was kind of
interesting.
He was reading from Interzone. I think I saw it on Bravo.
so it
goes, Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 19:55:52 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Burroughs Video
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Attila
Gyenis wrote:
>
>
Just saw a show on cable with Burroughs in it, kind of like a Christmas Carol
>
Story, with him doing the voice over with clay animation (the guy is willing
> to
give up his nod to a guy in need- kidney stones). It was kind of
>
interesting. He was reading from Interzone. I think I saw it on Bravo.
> so
it goes, Attila
did he
receive the Immaculate Fix????
dbr
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 21:24:11 -0400
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Bruce Cook's article at the Post
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
I found
Bruce Cook's article at the Washington Post.
It is at this url:
http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1997-08/31/041l-083197-idx.html
This is
an excellent comment on OTR and those of you reading it should
read
this review. I found it by going to the
Washington Post and in the
search
space on its web page, I typed in Jack Kerouac. The url for the
post
is:
http://www.washingtonPost.com/
Use the
search machine! The other url might not
work.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 22:57:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "P.A.Maher"
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: TKQ has been updated! New, rare picture
of Kerouac!
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I have
updated the news, links, and also a rare picture of Jack Kerouac flashing
a
toothy grin. Thanks! Paul....
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/page1.html
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 00:19:56 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Hipster Beat Poet."
<jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
Subject: Burrough's "Junky Christmas"
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
i think
it was Attila who mentioned something about a video in claymation
with
burroughs reading a narration. I have this on video from someone who
recorded
it for me a year or so ago on VH1 of all channels. Its very
interesting
to see it performed in a claymation style.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 02:34:14 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Neal--Man and Myth/Leon's post
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Bentz'
route to the Beats is the same as my own. I
was led
to On The Road thru Wolfe's Electric Kool Aid
Acid
Test, also. Read Acid Test in 1969, OTR in 1970.
I
thought On The Road was a romantic book about America.
I
always have thought of it as real and not fiction. Neal
always
struck me as the wild alter-ego of the conservative
Kerouac. It seemed to me that Neal was being used in
Kerouac's
book
for Kerouac's benefit. Neal's lines
were often wonderful
and I
believed he was the author of them. So
I always thought
the
book probably cost the two a lot of their friendship. And
I
always wanted to know a lot more about Neal the real person.
I have
seen several movies, and have read Leon's post. I'm
sure
there is a biography somewhere. Neal
seems like the engine
that
powers conservative Jack out of Lowell.
Jack wants to be
like
Neal. He idolizes Cassady for his
craziness. When someone writes
your
story and gets most of the credit for it, it has to have a
powerful
effect on you, especially if you have writing ambition of
your
own.
I would
like to know that story and what lay beneath the surface
of the
manic Cassady.
Mike
Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 02:57:44 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: book to movies
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
01:43 PM 8/31/97 -0500, you wrote:
>I'm
surprised that no one has mentioned John Huston's chillingly faithful
>adaptation
of "The Maltese Falcon," which gets my vote for a great book
>that
became a great movie.
>
>
Huston
wrote the screenplay for this one, I read.
So who came up with
the
line about the statue being "the stuff that dreams are made of,"
Hammett
or Huston? Please don't write that it
was Shakespeare, we know
that.
Mike
Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 02:57:47 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: OTR: Old Bull Lee wisdom
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
04:30 AM 8/31/97 -0700, you wrote:
>A
couple more quotes. I think we talked
before about Burroughs dislike
>of
Neal and of wanting Kerouac to come visit without Neal; on page 147,
>Old
Bull, talking about Dean, says, "'He seems to me to be headed for his
>ideal
fate, which is compulsive psychosis dashed with a jigger of
>psychopathic
irresponsibility and violence.' He
looked at Dean out of
>the
corner of his eye. 'If you go to California with this madman you'll
>never
make it."
>
>Also,
in the car after he and Sal have been to the racetrack, Bull says,
>"Mankind
will someday realize that we are actually in contact with the
>dead
and the other world, whatever it is; right now we could predict, if
>only
we exerted enough mental will, what is going to happen within the
>next
hundred years and be able to take steps to avoid all kinds of
>catastrophes. When a man dies he undergoes a mutation in
the brain that
>we
know nothing about now but which will be very clear someday if
>scientists
get on the ball. The bastards right now
are only interested
>in
seeing if they can blow up the world.'"
>
>
A man
who shot drinks off his wife's head as a parlor
trick
at parties, has no right to complain about the company
Kerouac
kept or "psychopathic irresponsibility and violence."
Of
course, Burroughs deserves some credit for having tremendous
gall complaining about Cassady.
Mike
Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 06:33:49 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: (OTR Movie)/ stamp me stoopid,
but...
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.970901184659.15797A-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
richard
wallner wrote:
ANYONE
who really cares about preserving Kerouac's legacy and turning
more
people onto it has to be into the idea of it being a film.
____________
why? it
seems that many people are interested in reading the books
themselves.
if you look around, more and more bookstores are carrying beat
lit.
if i am
not in favor of a film (particularly one which would mangle the
book by
ending up in the future after jack has drunk himself to death. if
there
is a film, i would appreciate 'SAVING KEROUAC'S LEGACY' by the film
doing
justice to the book and not to sentimentalizing and romancing the
legends.
legends don't do justice to the truth.
you
puzzle me a bit by this exclusionary statement above.
___________
There
are obviously people on this list who are on it because they knew
certain
people personally, not because of any great passion for the
literature.
_________
and
where did you pick up telepathy as a hobby? who are these people you
mention?
can't people be on the list because they knew neal (by this i am
guessing
you are taking a coward's way out of not peppering leon, who adds
truth
and sanity here in our midst by taking the time to write about the
REAL
neal vs all these idealizations of him.
________
We all
value their recollections but I resent the implication that one
had to
know these people to have a connection to them.
_____
well,
richard, again i salute yr telepathy, in speaking for the 200 odd
people
on the list :
"we"
all.....
_____
richard,
i believe you got huffy when i suggested that the literature (vs
legacy)
of kerouac would be best represented by being true to the ending of
OTR vs
a sentimental and hackneyed ending which takes place years after the
book
was written. OTR as i wrote in previous post has the ending, the
ending
JK wrote and images of neal that are in the book vs popular myths
about
neal and the tracks.
in my
opinion, if the 'legacy' of JK is to be preserved, then one should
have an
interest in staying true to his words and his endings to his own
books.
______
happy
tuesday, all.
_____
get a
grip richard.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 04:44:52 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Re: OTR: Old Bull Lee wisdom
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>From:
Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
>
>A
man who shot drinks off his wife's head as a parlor
>trick
at parties, has no right to complain about the company
>Kerouac
kept or "psychopathic irresponsibility and violence."
>Of
course, Burroughs deserves some credit for having tremendous
>gall complaining about Cassady.
>
>Mike
Rice
Mike,
Your post moved me. It moved me to feel nauseated. I've been forced to
drink
an entire bottle of Pepto Dismal. I'm
going to be bunged up for a
week. If you actually are as ignorant as you come
across, I hope that
you've
never been granted a driver's license and if you have, may the gods
look
out for those who live in your general vicinity.
Comparing a tragic accident to the war
machine that Old Bull Lee was
referring
to is like comparing a bullet to an arsenal of nuclear weapons.
Burroughs
who, in this case is actually Old Bull Lee (in case you have a
hard
time identifying that which is fictional), has every right to tell
Kerouac
who, in this case, would actually be Sal Paradise, that he should be
careful
of the company he keeps (it sort of gives the reader the impression
that
Old Bull Lee cares about Sal). I
understand your need to stick up for
a
favorite character but if you must, try to do so without confusing the
real
lives of certain people (whom others may admire) and Kerouac's poetic
license
to portray them as he wished.
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 14:20:32 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Beats:The List update 2 sep 1997
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Donald
Allen
---
Amari
Baraka (Leroi Jones)
---
Wallace
Berman
---
Stephen
Jesse Bernstein
---
Paul
Blackburn [Black Mountain School]
---
Robin
Blaser
---
Richard
Brautigan
---
Bonnie
Bremser
---
Ray
Bremser
---
Chandler
Brossard
---
Lenny
Bruce
---
Lord
Buckley
---
Charles
Bukowski {16 aug 1920 - 10 mar 1994} "Henry Chinaski"
---
William
S. Burroughs {5 Feb 1914 - 2 Aug 1997} "Bull Hubbard,
Frank Carmody,
Will Dennison,
Old
Bull Lee"
---
William
S. Burroughs Jr.
---
John
Cage {5 sep 1912 - 12 ago 1992} [Black
Mountain School]
---
Caleb
Carr
---
Lucien
Carr "Damion"
---
Paul
Carroll
---
Louis R
Cartwright
---
Carolyn
Cassady "Camille"
---
Neal
Cassady {8 Feb 1926 - 4 Feb 1968} "Cody Pomeray, Dean Moriarty"
---
Tom Clark
[Paris Review]
---
Andy
Clausen
---
Leonard
Cohen
---
Bruce
Conner
---
Gregory
Corso "Raphael Urso, Yuri Glicoric"
---
Robert
Creeley [Black Mountain School]
---
Henry
Cru "Remi Boncoeur"
---
Jay
deFeo
---
Diane
DiPrima
---
John
Doe
---
Kirby
Doyle
---
Edward
Dorn [Black Mountain School]
---
Robert
Duncan [Black Mountain School]
---
Bob
Dylan
---
Kenward
Elmslie [Z]
---
William
Everson (Brother Antoninus)
---
Larry
Fagin [Adventures in Poetry]
---
Richard
Farina
---
Lawrence
Ferlinghetti [San Francisco Poetry Reinassance]
"Lorenzo Monsanto,
Larry
O'Hara
Danny Richman"
---
Tom
Field [Spicer Circle]
---
Charles
Foster
---
Robert
Frank
---
James
Gauerholz
---
Allen
Ginsberg {3 Jun 1926 - 5 Apr 1997} "Irving Garden, Adam Morand
Alvah
Goldbook, Leon Levinsky
Carlo
Marx"
---
John
Giorno
---
Paul
Goodman
---
Morris
Graves
---
Brion
Gysin
---
Dave
Hazelwood
---
William
Inge
---
Wally
Hedrick [Gallery Six]
---
John
Clellon Holmes
---
Herbert
Huncke
---
Ted
Joans [Jazz Poetry]
---
Joyce
Johnson
---
Lenore
Kandel
---
Bob
Kaufman { 18 Apr 1925 - 12 Jan 1986 }
---
Robert
Kelly
---
Jack
Kerouac { 12 Mar 1922 - 21 Oct 1969 } "Jack Duluoz,
Leo Percepied, Ray
Smith,
Jack, Peter
Martin,
Sal
Paradise"
---
Jan
Kerouac
---
Ken
Kesey
---
Franz
Kline
---
Seymour
Krim
---
Paul
Krassner [Realist]
---
Art
Kunkin [Freep]
---
Tuli
Kupferberg [Birth, The Fugs]
---
Joanne
Kyger
---
Philip
Lamantia
---
Jay
Landesman
---
Fran
Landesman
---
James
Laughlin
---
Denise
Levertov [Black Mountain School]
---
Timothy
Leary
---
Lawrence
Lipton [The Holy Barbarians]
---
Ron
Loewinsohn
---
Philomene
Long
---
Malcom
Lowry
---
Bill
MacNeill
---
Norman
Mailer
---
Gerard
Malanga
---
Edward
Marshall
---
Peter
Martin
---
Lewis
McAdams
---
Joanna
McClure
---
Michael
McClure
---
Bill
MacNeill
---
Taylor
Mead
---
David
Meltzer
---
Jack
Micheline [SF<LA<NY poet]
---
Henry
Miller { 26 Dic 1891 - 8 Jun 1980 }
---
John
Montgomery
---
Shigeyoshi
(Shig) Murao
---
Harold
Norse
---
Frank
O'Hara
---
David
Ohle
---
Charles
Olson {27 dic 1910 - 10 jan 1970}[Black Mountain School]
---
Peter
Orlovsky
---
Kenneth
Patchen
---
Thomas
Parkinson
---
Nancy
Peters
---
Stuart
Z. Perkoff
---
Charles
Plymell
---
Dan
Propper
---
Kenneth
Rexroth {22 dic 1905-1982}[Berkeley Reinassance]
---
Frank
Rios
---
Theodore
Roethke
---
Hugh
Romney
---
Michael
Rumaker
---
Ed
Sanders [Peace Eye Bookstore]
---
Mark
Schorer
---
Tony
Scibella
---
Hubert
Jr. Selby
---
Gary
Snyder
---
Carl
Solomon
---
Jack
Spicer
---
Hunter
Stockton Thompson
---
Charles
Upton
---
Janine
Pommy Vega
---
John
Thomas
---
Mark
Tobey
---
Alexander
Trocchi
---
Tom
Waits [Foreign Affairs]
---
Anne
Waldman [St. Mark's Poetry Project, New York]
---
Lewis
Warsh
---
Alan W.
Watts "Arthur Whane, Alex Aums"
---
Lew
Welch
---
Philip
Whalen
---
John
Wieners [Black Mountain School]
---
Jonathan
Williams
---
William
Carlos Williams {17 sep 1883-4 mar 1963}
---
Ruth
Witt-Diamant [San Francisco's Poetry Center]
-*-
Hello!,
i'm
listing the beat generation
(writers
& painters & performers)
& i
begin with a list, everyone
interested
can propose a new name.
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/home.htm
thanks,
Rinaldo
Rasa.
2th
september 1997, Venice-Mestre, Italy.
-*-
the
list of credits & comments:
Walter
Campbell
<walter.campbell@usa.net>
David
Christian
dckom@atlcom.net
Greg
Christy
<christyg@pcpartner.net>
Patricia
Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Timothy
K. Gallaher
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Richard
M. Kershenbaum
<r-kershenbaum@UKANS.EDU>
OHearn
<orpheus@in.the.shadows>
Mike
Rice
<mrice@centuryinter.net>
David
Schwarm <dschwarm@sun3.lib.uci.edu>
Eric
Saylor
esaylor@sprynet.com
James
Stauffer
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Michael
Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
Tara123125 tara123125@aol.com
-*-
Addenda
comments:
1.=============================
Return-Path:
<dckom@atlcom.net>
From:
dckom@atlcom.net (dckom)
To:
"Rinaldo Rasa" <rasa@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Re: Beats:The List update 31 aug 1997
Date:
Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:20:00 GMT
Organization:
W.S.A.
Reply-To:
dckom@atlcom.net
Hi,
By Ed
Sanders and Tuli Kumferberg you should note The Fugs.
By
Sanders, Peace Eye Bookstore.
Paul
Goodman was Black Mountain School, except they threw him out for being
gay.
Good
project, thanks for the work.
David Christian
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Free
thought, neccessarily involving freedom of
speech
and press, I may tersely define thus:no
opinion
a law-no opinion a crime.
Alexander Berkman
2.===============================
Return-Path:
<tara123125@aol.com>
Date:
Sun, 31 Aug 1997 18:45:05 -0400
Newsgroups:
alt.books.beatgeneration
To:
"Rinaldo Rasa" <rasa@gpnet.it>
From:
tara123125@aol.com (Tara123125)
Organization:
AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject:
Re: BEATs list
SnewsLanguage:
English
Regarding
your request to add names to your beat list--
May I
suggest the following Beat generation poets:
John
Thomas, Philomene Long, Frank Rios and Tony Scibella. They can be
found,
along with Stuart Perkoff, in John Maynard's "Venice West: The Beat
Generation
in Southern California". Also see LA Beats Web Site-
HTTP://members.aol.com/labeats
3.
=====================================
Return-Path:
<esaylor@sprynet.com>
From:
esaylor@sprynet.com (Eric Saylor)
To:
rasa@gpnet.it
Subject:
beat list
Date:
Tue, 02 Sep 1997 05:42:05 GMT
Please
add Stephen Jesse Bernstein. Poet, author, beat, suicide in
1992,
Seattle WA USA.
Thanks.
Eric
=============
end of comments ======================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 14:02:53 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: The Invisible Friend.
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
nine times out of ten
i think the Beats
are hopeful
an invisible hand
acts as Beat's guide
they live in a Paradiso Terrestre
anything happens
wars
BOMB
massacres
they
with
childish
eyes
look at the world.
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 08:50:03 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Hemenway . Mark"
<MHemenway@DRC.COM>
Subject: Final Lowell Schedule & Press
Release
Comments:
To: "philzi@tiac.net" <philzi@tiac.net>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac!, Inc P.O. Box 1111, Lowell, MA 01853
KEROUAC
FESTIVAL CELEBRATES LOWELL WITH POETRY, PERFORMANCE AND
PHOTOGRAPHY
(Lowell,
MA) The 10th Annual Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac!
Festival
will celebrate the real and explore the mythic Lowell of
Kerouac's
art, 2- 5 October in Lowell, MA. The festival will also
honor
the memory and pay tribute to Allen Ginsberg, poet,
visionary
and Kerouac friend.
The
festival will begin 6:00PM, Thursday, 2 October at the
Whistler
House Museum of Art, Worthen St with the opening of
Images
of Kerouac 97" a photographic exhibition, and award of the
Jack
Kerouac Literary Prize. Images of Kerouac '97 is an open
exhibition.
All emerging and established photographers are invited
to
submit their work . For details call, 508- 452-7641.
Featured
guest, Anne Waldman, internationally acclaimed poet,
editor
and educator will lead a tribute to Allen Ginsberg, 8:00
PM,
Saturday, 4 October at the Smith-Baker auditorium, Merrimack
St,
Lowell. Ms Waldman has authored over 30
books of poetry and
has
performed in readings around the world. She directed the
Poetry
Project at St Mark's Church in the Bowery for over a decade
and is
currently the Director of the Jack Kerouac School of
Disembodied
Poetics which she co-founded with Allen Ginsberg. She
will be
accompanied by James Cameron on tenor sax. Admission is
$7.00
($5.00 for students).
A
photographic remembrance of Allen Ginsberg featuring works by
Gordon
Ball, Elsa Dorfman, Gerard Melanga and Fred McDarrah will
be on
display at the Brush Art Gallery, Market Street Visitors
Center
from September 25 through November 16. Gordon Ball,
Ginsberg
editor and photographer will present a gallery talk at
1:00
PM, Saturday, 4 October. For details call 508-459-7819.
Lowell
singer, song-writer and recording artist , Bob Martin will
open an
evening of performance poetry by Vincent Ferrini, Patricia
Smith,
Michael Brown, Lawrence Carradini, and Meg Smith. Vincent
Ferrini,
a member of the Black Mountain School of Poetry, friend
and
associate of Charles Olsen, and the dean of the Gloucester
poets,
has been writing and performing for decades. His work is
published
widely. Award winning journalist, poet, playwright and
performer,
Patricia Smith is a well known columnist for the Boston
Globe
and co-founder and leader of the slam poetry movement in
Boston.
She has performed her work around the world. Her US
appearances
include the Nuyorican Cafe, St. Mark's Poetry Project,
and
Lollapalooza. She is a fourtime national poetry slam champion.
Michael
Brown, member of the 1993 National Slam Championship team
from
Boston, is also an award winning performance poet. As General
Secretary
of the International Organization of Performance Poets
he is
currently planning the first international poetry slam in
Stockholm
in 1998. Lawrence Carradini and Meg Smith are well known
and
respected members of the Lowell and Cambridge performance
poetry
scenes. Suggested donation $3.00.
The
University of Massachusetts- Lowell will conduct the 3rd
Annual
Beat Literature Conference from 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM on
Friday,
3 October at the O'Leery Library, UMASS- Lowell South
Campus.
There is no charge for the conference. Panels will include
leading
scholars on Kerouac, Ginsberg, Burroughs and the Beat
movement
in general. Ann Douglas from Columbia University will
present
the Keynote speech at 2:00PM. For more information on the
conference
call the English Department, UMASS- Lowell at
508-934-4195.
Other
festival events include walking tours of Kerouac sites in
Lowell,
a small press boo fair, open microphone events, a dance
presentation
by the Feast of Friends Dance company, and many
opportunities
for conversation.
Jack
Kerouac's best known work, On The Road has sold over 3
million
copies and continues to sell over 60, 000 copies per year-
30
years after his death and 40 years since it's first publication
in
1959. Kerouac was born, raised and remained a native of Lowell
throughout
his life. 5 of his 11 novels take place in Lowell, and
the
city is mentioned in virtually every one of his books 24
books.
His descriptions of Lowell are remarkable for their beauty,
power
and timelessness. Through them, millions of readers have
come to
know Lowell as a universal hometown.
Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac!, Inc. is a non-profit corporation
dedicated
to the celebration, enjoyment and study of Jack Kerouac
and his
writings. Whenever possible, events are free, however,
donations
are gratefully accepted for continued support of the
annual
Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! Festival.. To make a donation,
or to
find out more about Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!, Inc., write:
P.O.
Box 1111, Lowell, MA 01853.
Schedule
for the 10th Annual Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! Festival
follows:
THURSDAY,
2 OCTOBER
Barbara
Concannon-Crete Memorial Poetry Prize- High School Poetry
9:00AM-11:00AM
Lowell
High School Poetry Competition for High School Students-
for
Information call 508-452-7966
Downtown
Kerouac Places- Walking Tour
4:30PM-6:00
PM
Begins
at Middlesex Community College, ends at the Pollard
Memorial
Library. Roger Brunelle leads a walking
tour of
Kerouac's
downtown.
Images
of Kerouac '97- Reception and
Photography Exhibition
6:00PM-
8:00PM
Whistler
House Museum of Art, 243 Worthen Street
Open exhibition
of
photography inspired by Jack Kerouac and the Beats. Entries
welcome.
Deadline 12 September. Co-sponsored by the Whistler House
Museum
of Art, 508-452-7641.
Jack
Kerouac Literary Prize Award
7:00PM
Whistler
House Museum of Art, 243 Worthen Street Presentation of
the 9th
Annual Jack Kerouac Literary Prize. The prize is sponsored
by The
Estate of Jack and Stella Kerouac, Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac!,
Inc. and Middlesex Community College.
Dr Sax
Nights- Walking Tours
8:00PM-10:00PM
Tour
begins at McDonald's, Mammoth Rd, ends at the Spaulding
House, Pawtucket St for discussion. Rain or shine.
Roger Brunelle
leads a
walking tour of Kerouac's Pawtucketville.
Friends
and Music
10:00PM-12:00PM
The
Athenian Corner Restaurant, 207 Market Street.
Greek Band,
Greek
food and Kerouac friends.
FRIDAY,
3 OCTOBER
3rd
Annual Beat Literature Symposium
8:00AM-5:00PM
O'Leary
Library, Room 222, South Campus, UMASS-Lowell 9:00AM-12:00
Noon -
Presentation of Papers. 2:00PM - Keynote Presentation by
Ann
Douglas, Columbia University. 3:00PM-5:00PM - Panel
discussions.
Leading scholars present original research on beat
authors,
writing techniques and cultural phenomena. For
information
and pre-registration, call Prof Hilary Holladay,
508-934-4195.
Sponsored by the English Department UMASS-Lowell. NO
CHARGE.
Mystic
Jack- Walking Tour
5:00PM-6:00PM
Begins
and ends at St. Louis de France Church, Centralville. Tour
by
Roger Brunelle.
Memorial
Mass for Jack and Stella Kerouac
6:00PM-7:00PM
St.
Louis de France Church, Centralville
Listen
to the Beat- Readings
8:00PM-10:00PM
The
Parkway Cafe, 350 Market Street Poets
Vincent Ferrini,
Patricia
Smith, Michael Brown, Lawrence Carradini, and Meg Smith
and
Singer song-writer, Bob Martin present
an evening of
performance
poetry and music. Suggested donation
$3.00.
Friends,
Music and Lowell Poets
10:00PM-12:00PM
Parkway
Cafe
SATURDAY,
4 OCTOBER
Nashua
- Bus Tour
9:00AM-1:00PM
9:00AM-
Depart from Lowell Barnes and Noble. Reservations can be
made in
person, or call 508-458-3939. 9:30AM-
Depart Nashua, NH
Barnes
and Noble. For reservations, call Laura Eanes at
603-897-0777. A bus tour of Kerouac places in Nashua, NH
by Steve
Edington.
RESERVATIONS PREFFERRED NOT REQUIRED
Small
Press Book Fair
10:00AM-4:00PM
Memorial
Hall, Pollard Memorial Library A sampling of local
presses
and Kerouac material.
Commemorative
at the Commemorative- Honoring Jack Kerouac and
Allen
Ginsberg 11:00AM-12:00Noon The Kerouac Commemorative, Bridge
and
French Streets
Strictly
Kerouac- Dance
12:30-1:00
PM
The
Courtyard at the Market Street Visitor's Center, Lowell
National
Historical Park. Jan Zwadney and a Feast of Friends
interprets
Kerouac in dance, music and spoken word.
Allen
Ginsberg and Friends: A Photographic Remembrance
1:00PM-
3:00PM Brush Art Gallery, Market Street Visitors Center
Photographs
by Gordon Ball, Elsa Dorfman, Gerard Malanga and Fred
McDarrah.
Exhibition open from September 25 - November 16th.
Gallery
Talk- Gordon Ball
1:30PM
Brush Art Gallery, Market Street Visitor Center
Photographer
and Ginsberg editor, Gordon Ball talks about
photographing
Allen Ginsberg.
Poetry
at the Rainbow Cafe 4:00PM-6:00PM Rainbow Cafe, Cabot
Street
Anne
Waldman and Friends- A Tribute to Allen Ginsberg
8:00PM-10:00PM
Smith Baker Auditorium, Merrimack Street-
Admission-
$7.00 Anne Waldman, renowned poet, performer, and
editor
leads a tribute to the Dharma Lion. James Cameron on
saxophone.
Music
Friends and Lowell Poets 10:00PM -12:00 PM The Downstairs
Cafe,
Merrimack Street
SUNDAY
5 OCTOBER The Jack Kerouac Tour- Bus Tour 9:30AM-11:30AM
Departs
from Middlesex Community College,
Merrimack Street Bus
tour of
Kerouac's Lowell. Call 508-452-7966 for reservations. Tour
by
Roger Brunelle. Please give name, phone number and number of
places
reserved. RESERVATIONS REQUIRED.
Words
and Music- Open Mic
1:00PM-3:00PM The Coffee Mill, Palmer Street.
PRESS
CONTACT: Mark Hemenway: Day: 508-475-9090 ext 1239
Evening:
508-458-1721
PUBLIC
INQUIRIES:
1-800-443-3332
508-458-1721
***END***
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 09:53:10 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: (OTR Movie)/ stamp me stoopid,
but...
In-Reply-To:
<l03020901b0315efd75ce@[206.25.67.128]>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
____________
>
why? it seems that many people are interested in reading the books
>
themselves. if you look around, more and more bookstores are carrying beat
>
lit.
This is
true but the fact remains that tv and movies are a far more
pervasive
medium than books right now, and in order to turn people on to
books
you have to get people where they are-- in front of their tv sets
and in
movie theaters. Are you one of those
folks who think Kerouac and
beat
writing would lose its hipness if too many people were turned on to
it? That is what it sounds like it...
> if
i am not in favor of a film (particularly one which would mangle the
>
book by ending up in the future after jack has drunk himself to death. if
Get
your facts straight...Neal Cassady died over a year BEFORE Kerouac
did. I dont think it would be mangling the book
anymore than David
Cronenburg
"mangled" Naked Lunch by giving it his own spin. You will
rarely
if ever find a novel turned into a movie that is able to be 100%
faithful. Most books arent written with movies in mind
so the work has
to be
adjusted.
I
guarantee you there WILL be scenes added to the movie-- maybe not the
Neal on
the tracks but other scenes not in the book but clearly in the
spirit
of the book. As I said, in the script I
saw, and I didnt read the
whole
thing, there is a scene in the beginning with Neal, Burroughs,
Kerouac,
and Ginsberg sitting in a bar bs'ing.
This didnt
happen...Burroughs
was gone from NYC before Neal ever got there, they met
down in
Texas later. But it wont hurt the book
being in it, if it
maintains
the spirit and intent of the work. They
were all friends,
Burroughs
and Cassady corresponded before they even ever met, so such a
scene
is simply a vehicle to simplify things and point out on screen that
they
knew each other.
Since
Jack Kerouac isnt alive to direct the film himself, it is going to
be
someone else's interpretation.
RJW
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 09:01:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats:The List update 2 sep 1997
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Rinaldo,
an
absolutely shit kicking list. i love
it. am trying to create a
file
that talks a little bit about each of these people. I am working
on the
connections between them. Could be a thesis.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 09:02:13 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: OTR: Old Bull Lee wisdom
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Mike
Rice wrote:
>
> At
04:30 AM 8/31/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
>A couple more quotes. I think we
talked before about Burroughs dislike
>
>of Neal and of wanting Kerouac to come visit without Neal; on page 147,
>
>Old Bull, talking about Dean, says, "'He seems to me to be headed for
his
>
>ideal fate, which is compulsive psychosis dashed with a jigger of
>
>psychopathic irresponsibility and violence.' He looked at Dean out of
>
>the corner of his eye. 'If you go to California with this madman you'll
>
>never make it."
>
>
>
>Also, in the car after he and Sal have been to the racetrack, Bull says,
>
>"Mankind will someday realize that we are actually in contact with the
>
>dead and the other world, whatever it is; right now we could predict, if
>
>only we exerted enough mental will, what is going to happen within the
>
>next hundred years and be able to take steps to avoid all kinds of
>
>catastrophes. When a man dies he
undergoes a mutation in the brain that
>
>we know nothing about now but which will be very clear someday if
>
>scientists get on the ball. The
bastards right now are only interested
>
>in seeing if they can blow up the world.'"
>
>
>
>
>
> A
man who shot drinks off his wife's head as a parlor
>
trick at parties, has no right to complain about the company
>
Kerouac kept or "psychopathic irresponsibility and violence."
> Of
course, Burroughs deserves some credit for having tremendous
>
gall complaining about Cassady.
>
>
Mike Rice
Thank
god we finally have a judge and jury and the missing conviction.
If any
one can be considered an expert on gall it might be the person
who
uses such a one deminsional arguement to make such a point.loving it
p
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 08:08:18 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Cassady residence, gone (fwd)
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
ya'll
saw
this on rec.music.gdead and i thought some here would be interested,
etc.
yrs
derek
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date:
29 Aug 1997 19:39:27 GMT
From:
Peter Lowenberg <PLOWENBE@qmtn.quintiles.com>
Newsgroups:
rec.music.gdead
Subject:
Cassady residence, gone
In this week's Los Gatos News my local
rag, there is an article about
the
house built by Neal Cassady which was recently razed, Cassady built
the
house with money obtained after his settlement with Union Pacific
Raliroad. The town folk claim they had no idea of it's
potential
historic
value, but couldn't have saved it anyway.
Twas the South bay
hangout
of Kerouac, and Ginsberg and later Kesey.
Cassady's son was
allowed
to take the Day glo green front door and the top of the bar,
before
the house was demolished.
Peter
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 11:13:12 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: The Neal/Gerard connection...
In-Reply-To: <340C1C65.796B@sunflower.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I've
been re-reading OTR the last few days (a pleasure to finally read it
in
hardback btw!) and it occurs to me that Kerouac may have desperately
wanted
to believe that his dead brother's spirit was somehow alive in
Neal
Cassady. Had his brother Gerard lived,
I believe he would have been
about
the same age as Cassady.
Its no
secret that Kerouac was haunted by memories and feelings for his
brother
who died as an infant. Kerouac refers
to Neal/Dean in the book
at
various times as both his brother and angel.
So
perhaps OTR is less about Neal Cassady's search for his father, and
more
about Jack Kerouac's search for his brother.
Jack Kerouac traveling
around
the country hoping deep down to find his brother alive somewhere,
and
thinking for a while that perhaps his spirit was alive in Neal
Cassady. And in the end realizing that no matter how
hard he wanted it
to be,
Neal was not Gerard, not his brother.
I
suggest that OTR is really about Kerouac learning to accept the death
of his
brother many years after the fact, through being able to envision
for a
while that Cassady *was* the embodiment of Gerard and finally
accepting
the reality that no one, not even Neal, could really be Gerard.
RJW
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 14:07:04 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gary Mex Glazner
<PoetMex@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Men Of The Mountains.(Beats)
How
much Snyder gets short changed
really
depends on where you live, here
in San
Francisco, he gets lots of press,
his
readings sell out, he is very well regarded.
In fact
people here in the provincial "City"
are
shocked when New York claims anything to
do with
the beats!
yrs
Gary
Mex
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 14:42:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Neal/Gerard connection...
In a
message dated 97-09-02 12:20:29 EDT, you write:
<<
Its no secret that Kerouac was haunted by memories and feelings for his
brother who died as an infant. >>
Wow. No
secret? Gee whiz. And all these years I've somehow been sucked into
believing
Gerard died at the age of nine.
How
dumb am I?
duh-duh-diane
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 13:46:23 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: The Neal/Gerard connection...
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Richard
Wallner wrote:
>
> So
perhaps OTR is less about Neal Cassady's search for his father, and
>
more about Jack Kerouac's search for his brother.
doesn't
seem to need to be a "one or the other" sort of thing. Both on
spirit
searches....along with very much living in the Present.
so if
JK finds Gerard in DM, does DM find his father's spirit
anywhere???
dbr
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 14:58:04 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: The Neal/Gerard connection...
In-Reply-To:
<970902144114_1952520056@emout08.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue,
2 Sep 1997, Diane De Rooy wrote:
> In
a message dated 97-09-02 12:20:29 EDT, you write:
>
>
<< Its no secret that Kerouac was haunted by memories and feelings for
his
> brother who died as an infant. >>
>
>
Wow. No secret? Gee whiz. And all these years I've somehow been sucked into
>
believing Gerard died at the age of nine.
>
>
How dumb am I?
>
>
duh-duh-diane
>
There
is no need to be sarcastic...I made a slip...its been a while since
I read
"Visions of Gerard" sheesh...
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 14:14:09 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ron Guest
<rguest@SUNSET.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cassady residence, gone (fwd)
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
That's
too bad. That was a landmark. Seems that Cassady and Kerouac were
always
running to or away from that place.
Wasn't that the place where
Kerouac
would sleep out under a tree in the back yard on his visits?
At
08:08 AM 9/2/97 -0600, you wrote:
>ya'll
>saw
this on rec.music.gdead and i thought some here would be interested,
>etc.
>yrs
>derek
>
>----------
Forwarded message ----------
>Date:
29 Aug 1997 19:39:27 GMT
>From:
Peter Lowenberg <PLOWENBE@qmtn.quintiles.com>
>Newsgroups:
rec.music.gdead
>Subject:
Cassady residence, gone
>
> In
this week's Los Gatos News my local rag,
there is an article about
>the
house built by Neal Cassady which was recently razed, Cassady built
>the
house with money obtained after his settlement with Union Pacific
>Raliroad. The town folk claim they had no idea of it's
potential
>historic
value, but couldn't have saved it anyway.
Twas the South bay
>hangout
of Kerouac, and Ginsberg and later Kesey.
Cassady's son was
>allowed
to take the Day glo green front door and the top of the bar,
>before
the house was demolished.
>
>
>
>Peter
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 12:23:49 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Neal/Gerard connection...
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I
agree, no reason for this sort of sarcsam.
Gerard
would have died around the same time Cassady was born.
At
02:58 PM 9/2/97 -0400, you wrote:
>On
Tue, 2 Sep 1997, Diane De Rooy wrote:
>
>>
In a message dated 97-09-02 12:20:29 EDT, you write:
>>
>>
<< Its no secret that Kerouac was haunted by memories and feelings for
his
>> brother who died as an infant. >>
>>
>>
Wow. No secret? Gee whiz. And all these years I've somehow been sucked into
>>
believing Gerard died at the age of nine.
>>
>>
How dumb am I?
>>
>>
duh-duh-diane
>>
>
>There
is no need to be sarcastic...I made a slip...its been a while since
>I
read "Visions of Gerard" sheesh...
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 12:32:41 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cassady residence, gone Pooh Bear
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I think
this house is where Jack was staying when he began his Buddhist
studies. As I recall reading much of his study began
at the nearby San Jose
library.
Also,
the Some of the Dharma provides us with some kewl nuggets. For one
example
where the "don't you know God is Pooh Bear" line near the end of the
book.
In SoD
there are various transcripts of conversations Jack was having with
the
kids Jamie and Cathy (presumably at this Los Gatos house). One of the
kids
(Cathy I think--and I hope her name is Cathy--I don't have the book in
front
of me) is the person who called God Pooh bear.
So this
came in a conversation with one of Neal and Carolyn Cassidy's kids.
It also
hits home the revisions or "inserts" Kerouac did to On the Road.
Apparently
he began writing up what he called inserts to include in the
book. One of these inserts is the "mad to
be...fireworks everyone go aww"
line
that seems to be the most famous quote from the book. My gues is that
this
Pooh bear paragraph was also an insert.
It also
clarifies something that seemed anachronistic withing Kerouac's
oeurve
and artistic life in a while ago someone presented a section from On
the
Road that seemed heavily Buddhist (I don't remember which mesasage or
the
author here). I remember it striking me
as somewhat strnage that a
passage
that might sound more like it came from Visions of Gerard with its'
strong
Buddhist terminology. But the insert
process Kerouac did explains this.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 13:20:47 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Cassady residence, gone Pooh Bear
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
I would
like to get some expert help on this. Maybe Leon will weigh in.
My
recollection from letters and somewhat vague memories of Carolyn
Cassidy's
"Heartbeat" (don't have Off the Road handy) is that there was
at
least one and maybe more previous Cassidy houses in the San Jose
area,
and that most of Jack's visits and extended stays were at an
earlier
place in San Jose rather than the Los Gatos place which Jack
visits
with Lew Welch and others in Big Sur. Los Gatos is adjacent to
San
Jose. Any local would use the Los Gatos
address rather than San
Jose if they could. Jack, of course, might not be aware of this
difference.
J.
Stauffer
J.
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 16:16:04 -0400
Reply-To: xcrslnk@rivnet.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "g. jones"
<xcrslnk@RIVNET.NET>
Subject: Re: OTR movie
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
> It
seems to me watching a book-based movie before reading the book could
>
limit your imagination in the reading of the book afterward, the most
>
important thing though, being not to let a film discourage you from reading
> the
book it's based on, because who knows what the director was thinking,
> or
how the script was adapted. i've never read clockwork orange or seen the
>
movie.
>
leo
hi leo,
this is
how i've always felt, but then again i was never told i
wouldn't
understand a book. so i wondered if seeing the movie
first
would help me get a feel for the book. thanks for your
input.
ugh.
school started today. homework already.
steph
>
>
"Let us hope that the whores of evil no longer loiter on the doorsteps of
>
your path, beckoning you into the brothel of despair, and that hereinafter,
>
you may present them with the most rigid manifestations of a firm and manly
>
will. Ad astra per aspera." --Jack
Kerouac
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 16:35:54 -0400
Reply-To: xcrslnk@rivnet.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "g. jones"
<xcrslnk@RIVNET.NET>
Subject: Re: (OTR Movie)/ stamp me stoopid,
but...
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Richard
Wallner wrote:
>
Like it or not, more people will see the OTR film than will ever read the
>
book or ever have read the book. It
will be a vehicle to turn millions
> of
people onto Kerouac. The whole point of
making the movie is to get
>
people to read the books.
well i
haven't read the book, but i suppose i will if i ever get
enough
time! i think my parents think jack kerouac is the second
coming
or something! i think he was fascinating, but i don't nearly
as much
about him as i'd like!
>
ANYONE who really cares about preserving Kerouac's legacy and turning
>
more people onto it has to be into the idea of it being a film.
my mom
is a teacher and she has turned so many of her students on to
him!
>
There are obviously people on this list who are on it because they knew
>
certain people personally, not because of any great passion for the
>
literature.
what do
you mean by that? i'm only on this list because i wanted to
learn
more about the beat generation, but i do love to read.
> We
all value their recollections but I resent the implication that one
>
had to know these people to have a connection to them.
>
Richard W.
hmmm...
that contradicts the previous paragraph... or am i
misunderstanding
you?
by the
way, i am not g. jones! my name is steph but i don't have my
own
email.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 16:39:27 -0400
Reply-To: xcrslnk@rivnet.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "g. jones"
<xcrslnk@RIVNET.NET>
Subject: Re: OTR: Old Bull Lee wisdom
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>
Thank god we finally have a judge and jury and the missing conviction.
> If
any one can be considered an expert on gall it might be the person
>
who uses such a one deminsional arguement to make such a point.loving it
> p
hi
patricia,
you
have such a clever way with words. i'm envious!
steph
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 16:46:16 -0400
Reply-To: xcrslnk@rivnet.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "g. jones"
<xcrslnk@RIVNET.NET>
Subject: Re: The Neal/Gerard connection...
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>
Wow. No secret? Gee whiz. And all these years I've somehow been sucked >
into
believing Gerard died at the age of nine.
>
>
How dumb am I?
>
>
duh-duh-diane
diane,
wow.
that wasn't very nice. maybe you aren't dumb, but you surely
can't
be perfect!
steph
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 18:11:21 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Beat fiction and non-fiction
In-Reply-To: <33FC5902.1C7A@together.net>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu,
21 Aug 1997, Diane Carter wrote:
>
> Michael Stutz wrote:
>
>
>
> I wonder how much of the Beat canon is pure fiction and how much of it
>
> is non-fiction [auto]biographical account.
>
>
This is an interesting perspective on Kerouac from Ann Charters in her
>
introduction to The Portable Kerouac:
>
>
"All of Kerouac's writing is autobiographical, but he fictionalized the
>
stories about his direct experience by changing the names of the
>
real-life characters he described and by altering the settings of his
>
narrative if he or the publishers feared libel action would be taken by
>
the people he was writing about.
<snip>
Diane--
As
usual, thanks for typing in a lengthly quote about the subject at hand.
Shades
of our discussion here a few weeks ago has been now brought up in a
recent
post from Arthur, where he recalls his 1995 meeting with Burroughs
where
in question of Kerouac's portrayal of Bill's Algiers, LA days in OTR,
he
said, "Well, it's partly true -- you can't always trust Kerouac."
I
watched the documentary _Burroughs_ for the first time the other night,
and in
it Burroughs spoke of Kerouac's work. The dialogue [highly
paraphrased]
went something like this: "You can't ever trust what Kerouac writes
-- you have
to keep in mind that he was a writer of _fiction_. He was always
forming
these roles and then casting them onto other people."
Trying
to objectively determine what was absolutely "true" and "really
happened"
in these works, I think, would be like trying to measure the
absolute
coastline of Britain: recursively impossible. But maybe that's the
beauty
of it.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 18:13:55 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Pooh Bear
Yea, it
was great to see that passage in Some of the Dharma. It clears up the
wholeGod
is Pooh Bear thing or at least now we can see how the phrase originate
d. Those of you who have been around for a while might remember the interest
ing
thread we had on this a year or so ago.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 19:45:12 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: (OTR Movie)/ stamp me stoopid,
but...
In a
message dated 97-09-02 09:55:17 EDT, Richard responded very
authoritatively
to a letter from Marie:
<<
Marie said: ____________
> why? it seems that many people are
interested in reading the books
> themselves. if you look around, more and
more bookstores are carrying beat
> lit.
Then Richard said:
>>This
is true but the *fact* remains <<
"Fact."
Sounds like Richard is big on facts.
Then Richard said:
>>...are
you one of those folks who think Kerouac and beat writing would lose
its
hipness if too many people were turned on to it? That is what it sounds
like
...<<
"one
of those folks?" Who are "those folks?" Do you know a lot of
people who
are
"into" Kerouac and the Beats because it's "hip?" I don't
know anyone like
that.
Then Richard said:
>> Get your facts straight...
Once
more, Richard points out the importance of "facts." Since he was
using
the
"fact" argument against Marie, it seemed very appropriate for him to
fall
on his
own sword where the "facts" about Gerard were concerned.
>>I guarantee you there WILL be scenes
added to the movie... As I said, in
the
script I saw, and I didnt read the whole thing...<<
Why
didn't you read the whole thing? Did it fail to hold your interest? It
seems
if it was such a good idea to make a film of this book, one would beg,
borrow
or steal a script to read.
>>
Since Jack Kerouac isnt alive to direct the film himself, it is going to
be someone else's interpretation.<<
Jack
was burned by Hollywood in his lifetime. If he were alive today, there
would
be no movie being made of this book. Discussion of the approach would
never
make their way out of story meetings.
Sarcasm
has its place in the world. I feel it's very appropriate to use when
someone
takes himself so seriously that he can't even see that it's more
important
for him to have the last word than it is for him to bother to check
"facts."
As the
late, great Strother Martin said in "Cool Hand Luke" (was Luke Beat?
hee hee
hee), "What we have here is a failure to communicate."
And
with that, I lay down my own sword regarding this thread.
And
that, my friend Richard, is a fact.
diane
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 20:10:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Hipster Beat Poet."
<jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
Subject: guns and guns..millions of guns
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
out of
curiosity:
who is graciously getting all of
Bill's firearms and any
remaining
cats? In other words, what is going on with his estate?
jason
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 09:20:11 +0900
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Timothy Hoffman
<timothy@GOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Neal/Gerard connection...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.970902105346.7086A-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Richard Wallner writes,
>So
perhaps OTR is less about Neal Cassady's search for his father, and
>more
about Jack Kerouac's search for his brother.
Jack Kerouac traveling
>around
the country hoping deep down to find his brother alive somewhere,
>and
thinking for a while that perhaps his spirit was alive in Neal
>Cassady. And in the end realizing that no matter how
hard he wanted it
>to
be, Neal was not Gerard, not his brother.
There
is probably some truth in your comments regarding OTR being not only
about
Dean's search for his father, that the novel was written coloured by
Jack
Kerouac's own "search" for Gerard and in his hopes of finding his
older
brother's incarnation in Neil. Some biographer's have claimed (I'm
thinking
of Steve Turner's argument in "Angelheaded Hipster", great book by
the
way--I'm recommending this to Steff who said she was interested in
learning
more 'bout the Beats, though it's a Kerouac biography through and
through)
that this was a search and proJECT pattern (?) which he was to
continue
at least once again after having met Gary Snyder and collecting
experiences
used for Dharma Bums. I am not claiming (nor was Turner, I
thinks)
that Neil and Gary Snyder were equals as friends or soul buddies to
Jack,
but only proposing that losing an older brother when he was a child
and more recently, by the time of most of the
writting for OTR, his
father,
Jack (the author) was on as much of a search for missing loved ones
as was
the character Dean.
Tim
Hoffman
:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::
Timothy
Hoffman
Komaki
English Teaching Center
timothy@gol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 19:52:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <vmooney@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats:The List update 2 sep 1997
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
I have
always included Terry Southern in my personal "beat list," at the
very
least as a fellow traveler.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:03:11 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: OTR book sales
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
There
was a paragraph in yesterday's NY Times Magazine about the 40th
anniversary
of the publication of OTR and it led one to believe that Some
of the
Dharma was being published now to somewhat capitalize on reader
interest
in Kerouac. They said last year 100,000
copies of OTR were
sold. Does anyone know how that number compares to
other works of
twentieth
century literature.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 23:06:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: calling Charles P
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Calling
Charles Plymell,
Are you
alive and well?
I read
a poem tonight that made me think of you.
It was
Gary Snyder, Turtle Island, The Wild Mushroom.
He
said, "Some make you sick they say, Or bring you close to God."
It
ain't peyote, but it's gonna half to do. ;-)
Seriously
Charles, the poem made me think about you and I just wanted
you to
know that we are all thinking of you and your multiple sadness.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 23:24:32 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Beat Cinema
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Just
received Kevin Segall's monthly update from essential media and he
lists a
book that some of you may be interested in. see below
Antoine
****************
Essential
Media Counterculture Catalog
your
guide to the best of alternative culture in print, sound and video
http://www.essentialmedia.com
Post
Office Box 661245
Los
Angeles, CA 90066
310.574.1554
voice
310.574.3060
fax
___________________
Naked
Lens: Beat Cinema
A
serious collection of essays and interviews which examine Beat Cinema and
such
innovators as William S. Burroughs, Allen Ginsberg, Jack Kerouac,
Charles
Bukowski, Brion Gysin, Jon Cassavetes, Harry Smith, Bob Dylan, Gus
Van
Sant and many others. Nifty pictures, too!
NAKEDLENS
softcover 250 pp. $19.95 list price, EM discounted price $18.99
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky
and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 20:27:14 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher
<brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Cassady residence, gone Pooh Bear
(fwd)
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
I was
curious too about which Neal house it was that got
demolished,
so I fwd'd some of the questions from here to
John
Cassady, and here's his explanation:
>
The Southern Pacific transferred Neal from the SF depot to their San
>
Jose facility around 1952, and we moved from SF, I believe the house at
> 29
Russell, to a house on Santa Clara street, near 26th, in San Jose,
>
which still stands. I was a toddler at the time and remember little of
>
the San Jose house, but Jack stayed there probably more than in Los
>
Gatos later. We moved to the Los Gatos house about two years later. The
>
Los Gatos house, actually in a suburb called Monte Sereno, was at 18231
>
Bancroft Ave., and was demolished a week ago on August 22, 1997. Keep
>
them cards and letters coming!
>
> JC
------------------------------------------------------
| Levi
Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com |
|
|
| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (3 years old and still running) |
|
|
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
|
|
| *---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*
|
|
|
| we might never, never, never live in
harmony |
------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 23:23:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Wave/Particle
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Wave/Particle
Bohr
Einstein
wave
particle
Wave
PArticle
WAve
PARTicle
WAVe
PARTICle
WAVE
PARTICLE
right
wrong
wrong
right
neither.
Pilate
Joshua
truth
facts
truth
facts
truth
facts
What is truth?
What is facts?
Is it a
wave?
Is it a particle?
Both
are empirical facts
That
can be proven?
Submitted,
facts are not always true.
Submitted,
truth is not always factual.
Bohr,
Pilate, Einstein, Joshua.
Only
Joshua was a King.
TRUTH
FACT
WAVE
PARTICLE
Submitted,
there is nothing to win.
Submitted,
to win is nothing.
peace
war
peace
hate
peace
love
peace
light
Joshua,
Pilate, Bohr, Einstein, particle, wave, truth, facts, peace,
war,
love, light, hate and we are all lies that are true.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 23:53:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Cassady residence, gone Pooh Bear
(fwd)
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Levi,
If you don't mind asking John another
question I'd love to know
which
of these houses figured in the great story about Neal driving to work
at the
garage ....without using the brakes!
Thanks.
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky
and Utah Phillips