=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:20:49 -0400
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From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Life and Times of Allen Ginsberg
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.HPP.3.93.970911142727.18282A-100000@holmes.ipfw.indiana.edu>
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On Thu,
11 Sep 1997, Jennifer Thompson wrote:
>
> Just letting everyone know that PBS will be showing this next Wednesday at
>
> 10. Check local listings yadda
yadda yadda.....
> 10
a.m. or p.m.?
In the
pm, sorry to not make that clear.
------------------
Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:26:47 -0400
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From: Mike Rice
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Subject: Re: list
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At
04:44 PM 9/11/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Rinaldo,
>You
should also add Howard Hart to your list.
>Cordially,
>Michael
Skau
>9/11/97
>
>
Hell,
why not add Bret Harte, Moss Hart
and
Harte Crain?
Mike
Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:56:41 -0400
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From: MATT HANNAN
<MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>
Subject: Re: Iowa connecting
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Be sure to have some apple pie and ice
cream!
______________________________
Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject:
Iowa connecting
Author: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> at Internet
Date: 9/11/97 2:01 PM
I'm
heading out for a two week reading tour of Iowa (not hitchhiking!)
Sept.
25 through Oct. 9. 10 - 12 readings around the state. Anyone on the
list
from there? Anyone want to connect out in mid-America? I'll send more
info to
anyone interested.
Michael
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:36:37 -0400
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From: Jonathan Pickle
<jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>
Subject: Re: Visions of America
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At
04:43 PM 9/11/97 -0500, you wrote:
>On
Thu, 11 Sep 1997, chenxiao wrote:
>
>>
Folks over there, is hitchhiking still easy thing in this continent as
in the
>> OTR time?
>>
>>
Hitchhike to America, hitchhike to moon;
>>
with bag empty, with hair long.
>>
>>
ciao
>>
yan
>>
>I'm
afraid not, Yan. It's illegal in many
places. Most depressing thing
>in
the world is to see a road sign with a thumb up held with a big red
>slash
across it. and you read or hear about
people getting killed, raped
>. .
. all the time . I was lucky enough to
hitch 1600 miles down the
>Alaskan-Highway
last year, through Canada. It was
fairly easy for us.
>But
Canada and Alaska are a lot different than the rest of the U.S.
>
>i
like your little poem. reminds me of
Jack's "Visions of America."
>
>-matt
>
>
Matt -
Ive been searching for "Visions of America" for two years and cant
seem to
find it except through this internet bookdealer who wants 125
dollars
for it which of course I don't have. Do
you know of a way of how I
could
get it cheeper?
-Jon
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:26:18 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: hitchhiking
In a
message dated 97-09-11 17:58:54 EDT, we write:
<<
><< one may hitch-hike. but
it's not safe anymore. >>
>
>it's safe if i'm the one picking you up.
>
>ddr
>
>
How can we be sure? Who knows what you have done in
your secret life.
Mike Rice
<<<
well,
mike... maybe YOU wouldn't be safe... hee hee hee
ddr
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:36:31 -0400
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From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: thumbs up
In a
message dated 97-09-11 15:38:07 EDT, patricia wrote:
<<
Diane De Rooy wrote:
> I say, Let's all get out there and hitch
a ride and change "reality..."
>
> ddr
I hitched probably over 200,000 miles over
the years between 1967 and
1979.
hey I
know this is not beat related but I found just loved thinking about
those
trips,
p
>>
I don't
know about everyone else, but I've thoroughly enjoyed this thread...
and I
think hitching is completely Beat-related, and "thumbs up" is a great
title
for your letter. Wish I'd thought of it...
So,
patricia, what's the best route to hitch from Seattle to where you are?
diane
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:05:42 -0400
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Crickets
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David:
I found
the crickets. In an ad for a Nancy
Griffith show it says:
Horizon
presents
An
Evening with
NANCI
GRIFFITH & the Blue Moon Orchestra
featuring
THE CRICKETS
So, at
least you know that they are in good hands and making a wonderful
folk
sound.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:18:00 -0400
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
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Subject: Hitchhiking
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I did
more than my share in 1970-71. But, I
don't remember much really
being
fun. It was a sense of adventure and
had a cool trip full of
conincidences
once. We were hitching from Thomasville
GA to Bushkill
Falls
PA for a rock festival, Harmonyville.
We got to Atlanta and slept
under
some pine trees on the side of the road.
We went down to a 76
truck
stop and got breakfast. We started
talking to this middle aged
man. He
was up drinking all night and was going to head to the Atlanta
Raceway
for a stock car race. We told him what
we were doing and he got
that
"crazy" look in his eyes. He
said, damn, I always wanted to do
something
like that. He got in his car and
decided to take us to
Greenville
SC and come back for the race.
When we
got to Greenville he said, hell, I always wanted to do something
crazy
like this. I'm gonna take you to
Pennsylvania. I was behind the
wheel
and drove his car all the way from Atlanta to Philadelphia. Since
it was
the days before atms, he had his girl friend wire him money in
Washington
DC. As we rode around the Western Union
office, we thought,
man, I
can't believe he would let us three kids drive his car around
like
this in DC.
When we
got to PA, the festival was cancelled.
Sly Stone was late for a
show in
Illinois and when he didn't come out the kids had a riot. A
bunch
of festivals got canceled. We chose to
go to this one instead of
one in
VA. At the one in VA, it rained a lot
and they had a show
despite
the ban. I believe "Candles in the
Rain" by Melanie and "Who'll
Stop
the Rain" by CCR may have been inspired by that show. Anyways, he
took us
back to Atlanta.
His
occupation was a mechanic. But he made
his real money turning back
odometers
for used car dealers.
A
pretty cool ride.
But,
despite this great trip, I don't really thinking hitching was that
great
an idea.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:35:17 -0500
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Crickets
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R.
Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
>
David:
>
> I
found the crickets. In an ad for a
Nancy Griffith show it says:
>
>
Horizon presents
>
> An
Evening with
>
>
NANCI GRIFFITH & the Blue Moon Orchestra
>
featuring THE CRICKETS
>
>
So, at least you know that they are in good hands and making a wonderful
>
folk sound.
>
>
Peace,
> --
>
Bentz
>
bocelts@scsn.net
>
>
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
that
sounds like Nancy ... used to be on her wavelength ever few weeks
back in
iowa city ... the Mill was kinda Nancy griffith kinda place ...
i think
greg browne or green or something or other too. used to goof
off at
open mike nites there with guitar and persecuting music for free
...
crowd favourite was acoustic-punk-angst-version of johndenver
version
of Leavin on a jet plane!
dbr
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:47:29 -0400
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From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: kerouac timeline
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As I
did up a timeline of Kerouac's life for class on Monday, I figured
"whatthehell",
did some quick coding in my local web editor (knew those
things
were good for something), and put it up on my Kerouac page. If
anyone
gets the chance/desire, I'd love for some double checking on my
dates
and such; as my sources conflicted a bit on some of the "began
working
on suchandsuchnovel", "moved to suchandsuchplace", and "ran
whilly-nilly
to Mexico" dates. Order of events
of each year may be a
bit
skewed as well. I'd appreciate the
lowdown if anyone finds errors.
http://porter.appstate.edu/~kh14586/links/beats/kerouac/timeline.html
------------------
Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:57:21 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: update 10 sep 1997 Beat
SuperNova (Beats:The List)
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Jym
Mooney wrote:
. . .the only *true* Beat
>
writers had to have been mentioned in "Howl" (which is rather
limiting
>
things to Kerouac, Huncke, Cassady, Carr, Solomon, Burroughs, and, oddly
> enough,
Tuli Kupferburg).
There
are times for narrow definitions and times for broad ones. On
this
list I think broad is helpful, although there are some on this list
that to
my mind are clearly out, but this is democracy. There are lots
of
people on the list who would have hated like hell to be called "Beat"
(Jack
Spicer is a good example, or Bukowski) but because of their time
and
associations are going to be called Beat whether they like it or
not. "Beat" was Allan and Jack's term
really, and I think other writers
resented
being dragged into that camp feeling that they had their own
thing
going. Allan was a wonderful promoter.
But narrowly defined Beats
are all
dead and gone now. Certainly we can
borrow the term and give it
somewhat
wider application without watering it down beyond all
usefullness
J.
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 22:32:12 -0400
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From: Michael Czarnecki
<peent@SERVTECH.COM>
Subject: Re: Iowa connecting
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MATT
HANNAN wrote:
> Be sure to have some apple pie and ice
cream!
>
>
I will,
and know just the place, The Barn Cafe, Dike, Iowa where a sign in
entranceway
proclaims:
OFFICIAL
AGRICULTURAL SEMINAR
HELD
HERE DAILY
Michael
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:25:34 -0700
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From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: hitchhiking
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>
Leon Tabory wrote:
>
Was this the point Diane? Scary looking people never get invited for a
>
ride?
>
> My
earlier response was my sadness that Jack was so unhappy that he
>
looked
> at
the dark side that he had for whatever
reasons to wallow in his
>
depressed outlook where the bright things that were happening were not
>
visible to him. That area, at that time, was just beautiful hitchiking
>
land.
> I
know because I was a frequent rider on that coast highway. That was
>
Big
>
Sur area he was speaking of, no and a couple of years more than 32?
I read
it as meaning that he felt America was changing even then, but if
you
hitchhiked in the same area at about the same time and didn't feel
it,
then perhaps this is another way in which his depression caused him
to see
the darker side of things. Jack was
"sick of life" through most
of Big
Sur and many of his older joys (and I would see hitchhiking as one
of
them) no longer held much meaning for him.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:11:49 -0700
Reply-To: sgglbg@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Stanley & Laurie Gonzalez
<sgglbg@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: AG as MONEY Magazine Publisher?
Comments:
To: Jym Mooney <vmooney@execpc.com>
Comments:
cc: mongo.bearwolf@Dartmouth.EDU
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Jym
Mooney wrote:
>
>
She is thinking of RALPH GINZBURG, not our Allen. I remember his MONEY
>
magazine, too.
>
>
> >Subject: Re: A.G. as MONEY magazine publisher
>
>
>
> In the mid-1960s for over a year, Allen Ginsberg (the very same, I am
>
> sure) offered from a New York addresss via a full-page color ad in the
>
> comics pages of the San Francisco Chronicle (such ads were often placed
>
> in the comics during the 60's)--for $5 per year or $10 for a
"lifetime
>
> subscription", a monthly or semi-monthly publication called MONEY or
>
> YOUR MONEY or some such short title with MONEY in it. It was the first
>
> of its kind; a nearly identical version has recently started publishing
>
> this year, edited and promoted by one Martin Edelston at a Boulder, CO
>
> address, called Bottom Line/PERSONAL and deals with ways to save, make,
>
> spend and otherwise get the best deal in every area of money management.
>
>
>
> MONEY claimed to be an inside report (what "they" DON'T want you
to
>
> know). I recall that (1) I paid $5 for one year, then renewed at $10
>
> (for life) and it went out of business within a few months afterward
>
> with no refund for remaining issues.
I am absolutely sure that this was
>
> Allen Ginsberg's venture. Any
verification of that in your background
>
> information on him?
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance for providing this forum for informaiton exchange and,
>
> in advance, for any info or assistance you can provide in response.
>
>
>
> Laurie (the "lbg" in sgglbg@pacbell.net)
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank
you, Mongo, Bill and Jim for leading me to the right first name at
last
and the correctly spelled last name.
Wonder what became of Ralph
G...
Probably absconded with all of the "lifetime membership" monies
(for a
couple of weeks in Mexico)!
(.) (.)
.
Thanks
again. \___/ Laurie
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:51:27 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: chenxiao
<xbchen@SUN.NANKAI.EDU.CN>
Subject: Re: hitchhiking
I don't
know how is hitchhiking in China. This summer I took a trip to northwest
China, not hitchhiking but taking cheapest
train and hotel room so that I can
stay longer on the road. There is cool
landscape. I encountered several poor
people including a little begger girl, who
has pure eyes and tender voice, and
a old hobo thousands of miles away home, who
picks up littered water or
coca-cola bottles to earn money. I always
wonder how those hobos survive with
no money in pocket.
I
should have stay a day or two with the old man. There are millions of hobos
wandering around Chinese vast land. But I think
they are different to hobos
described by Beats writers, they send money
back home whenever having any. Its
sad thing.
west
side of Yellow River,
desert
is ahead,
stuck
bicycle in mud,
saw
footprints of mine on wet sand.
i am
alone, haaaa i am alone.
Yan
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 23:21:53 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: update 10 sep 1997 Beat
SuperNova (Beats:The List)
Comments:
To: stauffer@pacbell.net
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James
Stauffer wrote:
>
>
Jym Mooney wrote:
> . . .the only *true* Beat
>
> writers had to have been mentioned in "Howl" (which is rather
limiting
>
> things to Kerouac, Huncke, Cassady, Carr, Solomon, Burroughs, and, oddly
>
> enough, Tuli Kupferburg).
>
>
There are times for narrow definitions and times for broad ones. On
>
this list I think broad is helpful, although there are some on this list
>
that to my mind are clearly out, but this is democracy. There are lots
> of
people on the list who would have hated like hell to be called "Beat"
>
(Jack Spicer is a good example, or Bukowski) but because of their time
>
and associations are going to be called Beat whether they like it or
>
not. "Beat" was Allan and
Jack's term really, and I think other writers
>
resented being dragged into that camp feeling that they had their own
>
thing going. Allan was a wonderful promoter.
But narrowly defined Beats
>
are all dead and gone now. Certainly we
can borrow the term and give it
>
somewhat wider application without watering it down beyond all
>
usefullness
>
> J.
Stauffer
Being
somebody who is coming into this whole game fairly if not at a
moron
status in terms of my level of ignorance, the project of the
expanded
list is helping me considerably in creating connections between
(as Lou
Reed would say) "faces and names".
The list of the "CORE" Beats
is
wonderful for providing focus and it seems like a decent idea to try
and
draw lines of association that connect (like those old sex chains in
college)
to one or more of these. Perhaps this
is a way of creating
some
slight method to the madness of the entire definition game. But
i'm one
for letting quite a lot of madness flow.
Part of the
distinction
in this thread seems to be the notion of Beats and Beat
Generation. Certainly the DIRECT influences of the CORE
Beats move far
beyond
their initial little group. There are
many advantages to having
both
lists. The most obvious is that when
newcomers come in -- as i did
--
relatively ignorant, there is material to examine without falling
into
that dangerous thread of "What is Beat?" and the true but not
particularly
helpful answer of "Rhubarb" (or was it "Dumpling!!?!!)...It
provides
information both from a lens that is focused VERY VERY closely
on a
selected group of Exemplar and of the Larger Literary Community
that is
-- in computerese -- LINKED to the Core.
Just
two thoughts as night falls in the Land where Eisenhower is still
thought
to be President and the pledge of Allegiance a marvelous little
poem!
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:20:37 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: hitchhiking
MIME-Version:
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chenxiao
wrote:
>
> I
don't know how is hitchhiking in China. This summer I took a trip to
>
northwest
> China, not hitchhiking but taking cheapest
train and hotel room so
>
that I can
> stay longer on the road. There is cool
landscape. I encountered
>
several poor
> people including a little begger girl, who
has pure eyes and tender
>
voice, and
> a old hobo thousands of miles away home, who
picks up littered water
> or
> coca-cola bottles to earn money. I always
wonder how those hobos
>
survive with
> no money in pocket.
> I
should have stay a day or two with the old man. There are millions
> of
hobos
> wandering around Chinese vast land. But I
think they are different to
>
hobos
> described by Beats writers, they send money
back home whenever having
>
any. Its
> sad thing.
>
>
west side of Yellow River,
>
desert is ahead,
>
stuck bicycle in mud,
>
saw footprints of mine on wet sand.
> i
am alone, haaaa i am alone.
>
>
Yan
Yan:
Thanks
for the cool post.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 23:24:34 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Iowa connecting
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1.0
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Michael
Czarnecki wrote:
>
>
MATT HANNAN wrote:
>
>
> Be sure to have some apple pie
and ice cream!
>
>
>
>
>
> I
will, and know just the place, The Barn Cafe, Dike, Iowa where a sign in
>
entranceway proclaims:
>
>
OFFICIAL AGRICULTURAL SEMINAR
>
HELD HERE DAILY
>
>
Michael
MACHINESHED
Interstate 80 Davenport Iowa, Northwest side of Town. You
will
see TRUE farmers!!!!! (and some
tourists)
If you
dip below to the I-70 range ... consider a slide through salina
though
not a lot to do here but watch the sunflowers.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:54:58 -0500
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From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: thumbs up
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Diane
De Rooy wrote:
>
So, patricia, what's the best route to hitch from Seattle to where you are?
>
>
diane
my
server is only working about 10 minutes every 4 hours. so here goes,
the
best way to hitch from seattle to here is via mexico. of course that
is how
i found canada. Route and weather,
lines and chance.
to
respond to a variety of thoughts and messages
Jamie
picked up the lesbians at a coop grocery in fayetteville, after
they
disappeared with him , his money and his van, a tv they had hocked
turned
out hot. Jamie Grow was a hippies
hippy, tales of him in Ohle's
"cows
are freaky when they look at you; tales of the Kaw Valley Hemp
Pickers."
Inge is
dead but i don't think he is beat!
Here in
lawrence some of us have take the great rinaldo beat list and
made of
list of the works and we play match
games (beat pursuit) bob
(the
saint that is my husband) is the best.
Mike, I
believe you are correct, I am not sure but I do believe Ted
Bundy
did go on to murder more people ( in Florida) after he was in
Colorado.
Iowa, i
would love to meet you, too, I am heading to texas for a couple
of
weeks (end of Sept) ( i am driving), give us your rough itinerary
and
mayhaps we can share a cuppa.
now i
will click on send and see.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 01:08:31 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Patricia Elliott
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Mike
Rice wrote:
>
> At
04:44 PM 9/11/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Rinaldo,
>
>You should also add Howard Hart to your list.
>
>
>
>
>
Hell, why not add Bret Harte, Moss Hart
>
and Harte Crain?
>
>
Mike Rice
I
certainly agree with adding howard Hart but as for bret, moss and
crain
is this humor? i sure don't get this new humor. i understand the
hart refrain but are you disagreeing about Howard
hart?
p
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 05:27:09 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: David Jones
<71224.1465@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Re: AG as MONEY Magazine Publisher?
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Ginzberg
was a publisher who had been an editor at Esquire Magazine in the
fifties.
In 1958 his "An Unhurried View of Erotica" was published. He
published
the hardcover "Eros" magazine in the early sixties and became
something
of a cause celebre over an obscenity case (involving an issue of
that
publication) which went all the way to the US Supreme Court. He lost
the
appeal and served time in prison in the seventies, then wrote
Castrated:
My Eight Months in Prison. Before they locked him up, he
published
Fact Magazine in the mid sixties, which was mildly beat in that
it
published work by Rexroth and such, and "Avant Garde" magazine
between
1968
and 1971, which was a high-end periodical noted for its graphics. I
seem to
remember a later version of "Fact", and Ginzberg also put out a
series
of newsletter style publications having to do with money saving and
other
handy tips (as you have mentioned). One, published in the eighties,
had to
do with getting Social Security payments.
I'm not
sure if he's still alive.
- David
-----Original
Message-----
From: INTERNET:sgglbg@pacbell.net
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 1997 20:46
To: INTERNET:BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: AG as MONEY Magazine Publisher?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank
you, Mongo, Bill and Jim for leading me to the right first name at
last
and the correctly spelled last name.
Wonder what became of Ralph
G...
Probably absconded with all of the "lifetime membership" monies
(for a
couple of weeks in Mexico)!
(.) (.)
.
Thanks
again. \___/ Laurie
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 06:32:27 -0400
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: hitchhiking
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.LNX.3.95.970911181305.20530C-100000@devel.nacs.net>
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no,
only easy thing to do now is hitchhike on the net; folks in chat rooms,
irc
& at ends of internet connections still talk to strangers, pass ideas
along
and take you for a ride.
_______
hi
michael! loved the above, quoted from yr post! great analogy and reality
statement.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 06:58:49 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: list
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At
01:08 AM 9/12/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Mike
Rice wrote:
>>
>>
At 04:44 PM 9/11/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>Rinaldo,
>>
>You should also add Howard Hart to your list.
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
Hell, why not add Bret Harte, Moss Hart
>>
and Harte Crain?
>>
>>
Mike Rice
>
>I
certainly agree with adding howard Hart but as for bret, moss and
>crain
is this humor? i sure don't get this new humor. i understand the
>hart refrain but are you disagreeing about Howard
hart?
>p
>
>
I don't
know a lot of these people including Howard Hart. I'm just sort
of
gently mocking the wide world approach to beats.
MIke
Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:05:04 -0600
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Leo Jilk <ljilk@GUINAN.MPS.ORG>
Subject: Re: update 10 sep 1997 Beat
SuperNova (Beats:The List)
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19970910183952.006e5b5c@pop.gpnet.it>
Mime-Version:
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I saw
Larry eigner on the United States of Poetry on PBS. Can you tell me
more
about him in connection with the beats. I don't know anything about
the
Black MTn school.
leo
"The
whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain
of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
--Bertrand Russel
"Time
is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so."
--Douglas Adams
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 07:34:09 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: hitchhiking
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Hello Michael and everybody,
Well
put I thought, until I got to the
+ACI-take you for a ride+ACI- bump on
the
ride. I
didn't know whether to take it as a
very serious warning, are you
sounding
an alarm, or just playing around , watch out, it can happen, sort
of
thing. I understand well how you got to watch out in this world where you
can
find everywhere people willing and able to take you for a ride while
seeming
to just give you one. Especially when it is free. Email associations
is as
yet uncharted territory, all these strange possibilities, and
certainly
subject to these pitfalls. Still in many ways harder to take one
for a
ride on e-mail, than in FTF (face to face) associations. Or is it? Are
we
ready for +ACI-I thought I was surfing the beat web and got taken for a
ride+ACI-
stories?
Any pointers for little red riding hoods, that give away the wolves
in
surfers print? I am only half kidding.
Have a
nice weekend everyone,
leon
l
leon
+AD4-On
Thu, 11 Sep 1997, chenxiao wrote:
+AD4-
+AD4APg-
Folks over there, is hitchhiking still easy thing in this continent as
in
the
+AD4APg- OTR time?
+AD4-
+AD4-no,
only easy thing to do now is hitchhike on the net+ADs- folks in chat
rooms,
+AD4-irc
+ACY- at ends of internet connections still talk to strangers, pass
ideas
+AD4-along
and take you for a ride.
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-email
stutz+AEA-dsl.org Copyright (c) 1997
Michael Stutz+ADs- this
information is
+AD4APA-http://dsl.org/m/+AD4- free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL,
and as
long
+AD4- as this sentence
remains+ADs- it comes with absolutely
NO
+AD4- WARRANTY+ADs- for details
see
+ADw-http://dsl.org/copyleft/+AD4-.
+AD4-.-
+AD4-
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:57:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Visions of America
In a
message dated 97-09-12 06:30:44 EDT, you write:
<<
>
Matt - Ive been searching for "Visions
of America" for two years and cant
seem to find it except through this internet
bookdealer who wants 125
dollars for it which of course I don't
have. Do you know of a way of how I
could get it cheeper?
>>
Jon:
Lucky you
- the publisher of "Visions of America" just happens to be a member
of this
list....
I
published Visions of America back in 1991 in a limited edition of a few
hundred
copies. It was hand-printed and handbound - priced justifiably at
$125.00
per copy as a collector's item. It's sold out and out of print.
"Visions
of America" consists of an excerpt from Kerouac's 1952 travel
notebook
about driving through Arizona with Neal and Carolyn on the way to
Mexico
City.
The
excerpt is presented as a print which is frameable. The text is decorated
with
artwork by Jack - everything previously unpublished. The print is housed
in a
handbound hardcover folio case with Jack's facsimile signature on the
front.
The
printer did a few proof copies for publisher's inspection and I still
have
them here.
They
are not numbered nor do they come in the hardcover case but the print is
the
same. If anyone here on the Beat-L wants a copy, send me $20.00 plus $3
for
shipping. MC/Visa/etc. Satisfaction guaranteed.
Jeffrey
Water
Row Books
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:14:58 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: hitchhiking
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Hi mc,
I am
rushing again. Am arranging to have Fridays off. but not yet today.
Please
let me know if you got the check. I put it in the mail Saturday and
it may
not have left until Sunday, but still it should have reached you. If
you did
not get it yet, I will put a stop in the bank if it was not cashed
yet,
and send you another one. I took the address from the return on the
envelope
that you mailed the cassettes in.
Love
leon
+AD4-leon,
thanks for the memory+ACE- being picked up by fellow fellaheens on
the
+AD4-road
usually led to tripping, toking, getting out and showing the sights to
+AD4-fellow
voyagers interior and exterior
+AD4-mc
+AD4-Hey, there was a time when we said inhale deeply,
aaah, the breath was so
+AD4-fresh,
pores opened up, dirt rolling off the skin, you could see it all
+AD4-around
you, fresh faces with sparkling eyes, breathing out freely, taking
it
+AD4-all
in, gentler everybody. Then came swallow it, wow, soaring spirits,
+AD4-mutual
encouragement, a real pleasure to run into each other, the world was
+AD4-free
for giving and taking. Hitching a ride
meant meeting new people,
+AD4-enjoying
more the trip of life, getting more places with a little help from
+AD4-friends.
+AD4-.-
+AD4-
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:19:58 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: tyler peterson
<bepeters@AA.NET>
Subject: freight trains
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Does
anybody on this list have an experiance with freight train hopping (for
current
day routes and trains) ? If not does anyone know of any zines or
sites
devoted to this type of "low-budget" travel ? America needs to
revamp
its train system a la europe. Much more
effective/cheap over there.
I can't
afford amtrak tickets. Its ugly.
t.
===============================================================================
"There ain't nuthin' in school
they can't teach you on the streets"
-The
Straycats
===============================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 17:42:48 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Dufour <dufour@ULISSE.IT>
Subject: R: freight trains
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The
only thing I Know is that is a very dangerous way of travelling: some
persons
lost their legs under the weels trying to jump on the train.
Francesco
----------
>
Da: tyler peterson <bepeters@AA.NET>
> A:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
Oggetto: freight trains
>
Data: venerdl 12 settembre 1997 17.19
>
>
Does anybody on this list have an experiance with freight train hopping
(for
>
current day routes and trains) ? If not does anyone know of any zines
or
>
sites devoted to this type of "low-budget" travel ?
America needs to
>
revamp its train system a la europe.
Much more effective/cheap over
there.
> I
can't afford amtrak tickets. Its ugly.
>
> t.
>
>
===========================================================================
===
>
> "There ain't nuthin' in school
they can't teach you on the
streets"
> -The Straycats
>
===========================================================================
===
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:50:01 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: der doc
<der_doc@ROCKETMAIL.COM>
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I
honestly don't see the point in all the argument over who is Beat
and who
ain't. Beats are Beat is Beat. You know I know they know, as
long as
we're all Beat that is.
===
visit
my web site, <a
href="http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6131">The
Beat(en)
Regeneration</a>
(http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6131)
for
info on the Beat, Beatnik and Neo-Beat subcultures
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by
RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:46:48 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: der doc
<der_doc@ROCKETMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Life and Times of Allen Ginsberg
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===
visit
my web site, <a
href="http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6131">The
Beat(en)
Regeneration</a>
(http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6131)
for
info on the Beat, Beatnik and Neo-Beat subcultures
---Jennifer
Thompson <thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU> wrote:
>
> On
Wed, 10 Sep 1997, Alex Howard wrote:
>
>
> Just letting everyone know that PBS will be showing this next
Wednesday
at
>
> 10. Check local listings yadda
yadda yadda.....
>
>
>
> Check out the pbs.org site. They
have a lot of stuff there.
>
>
>
> ------------------
>
> Alex Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
>
> kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
>
> http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC
28608
>
>
> 10
a.m. or p.m.?
> jt
>
I think
it's a little late to find that out... considering that was
THIS
LAST wednesday...
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by
RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:20:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: R: freight trains
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In Mo.
all trains stop in neuburg. It is best
to pick up your train in
a small
town that acts as a switching station. to get on and off there,
don't
use the big cities as your depot. Both
the hobo population and
the
guards are rougher. Avoid amtrak for
unticketed riding. Carry a
thermal
( metalic sheet camping blanket) Watch weight , go light.
Pick
flat bed cars for easy exit, sometimes box cars are locked at
departure
and can stay locked for days..
Switching stations can be
determined
by track maps.
proverty
is ugliest when you can't afford food or getting the cavity
filled
but if you are unencumbered the old old story is
freedom
and money don't necessarily travel together.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:30:39 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: der doc
<der_doc@ROCKETMAIL.COM>
Subject: a little permission if you please...
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/html; charset=us-ascii
I am a
recent subscriber to Beat-L (just a few days right now) but I have
noticed that the topic matter has been
incredibly interesting. In fact, so
many words, sentences and fragments have
jumped out at me so violently, I have
taken to printing out my email.
Now
this is the reason for me writing this.
When I print out the email, I cut
it up into little snippets of words
(sometimes phrases, sometimes whole
sentences) and rearrange them into a
reconstitution of parts of the original
text which in no way resemble the
original. Yes, Uncle Bill has
influenced me
IMMENSELY.
Anyway,
having done this, I find that I have an incredibly interesting piece of
work left over and I was just wondering if
the technique was cool with everyone
else on Beat-L, as I may be cutting up
anything that you say and mixing it in
with a million other things.
If
everything's cool with you guys, I hope to post these composite texts on <a
href="http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6131">my
website</a> (see below).
So
please, write me back and let me know what you think.
Adam J
Muszkiewicz
===
visit
my web site, The Beat(en) Regeneration
(http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6131)
for
info on the Beat, Beatnik and Neo-Beat subcultures
<hr
size=1>Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at <a
href="http://www.rocketmail.com">http://www.rocketmail.com</a><br>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:46:39 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: update 10 sep 1997 Beat
SuperNova (Beats:The List)
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RACE
--- wrote:
\the
project of the
>
expanded list is helping me considerably in creating connections between
> (as
Lou Reed would say) "faces and names". The list of the "CORE" Beats
> is
wonderful for providing focus and it seems like a decent idea to try
>
and draw lines of association that connect (like those old sex chains in
>
college) to one or more of these.
David,
Perhaps
you remember that six months or so ago, when you were disussing
Beat
texts for high school, sa griffin and I tried to get going a list
of this
sort with connections drawn and a geographical frame of
reference,
to be developed in the style of the "Exploding Poem" we did
in
memory of Ginsberg. Didn't take off
then, who knows why, but has
gotten
a new incarnation with Rinaldo. I think
connections would be
very
helpful, as well as at least a tag line identification and in the
case of
artists, a principle work. I consider
myself at least
moderately
well informed about this stuff and there are
some names that
have
absolutely no associations for me, and names that don't (to my
mind)
belong even under the most liberal rules--but it is in Rinaldo's
Venetian
hands now and he will accept or reject the suggestions he
wishes.
J.
Stauffer
J.
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:24:13 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Jonathan Pickle
<jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>
Subject: Exactly
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when
the rocketman wrote:
>I
honestly don't see the point in all the argument over who is Beat
>and
who ain't. Beats are Beat is Beat. You know I know they know, as
>long
as we're all Beat that is.
>
he got
IT. Beat doesn't come from a single era
or group of people - its a
mindset
that transcends lists and the sort.
Rinaldo,
not that your list isn't great, but in the grander scheme of
everything
in everything it really doesn't matter who is on the list.
-Jon
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:25:56 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jonathan Pickle
<jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Life and Times of Allen Ginsberg
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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At
08:46 AM 9/12/97 -0700, you wrote:
>===
>visit
my web site, <a
>href="http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6131">The
Beat(en)
>Regeneration</a>
>(http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6131)
>for
info on the Beat, Beatnik and Neo-Beat subcultures
>
>
>
>
>
>---Jennifer
Thompson <thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU> wrote:
>>
>>
On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, Alex Howard wrote:
>>
>>
> Just letting everyone know that PBS will be showing this next
>Wednesday
at
>>
> 10. Check local listings yadda
yadda yadda.....
>>
>
>>
> Check out the pbs.org site. They
have a lot of stuff there.
>>
>
>>
> ------------------
>>
> Alex Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
>University
>>
> kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
>>
> http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC
28608
>>
>
>>
10 a.m. or p.m.?
>>
jt
>>
>
>I
think it's a little late to find that out... considering that was
>THIS
LAST wednesday...
>_____________________________________________________________________
>Sent
by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
>
Is it
going to play again????
-Jon
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:11:47 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jonathan Pickle
<jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>
Mime-Version:
1.0
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Just
got my copy of Some of the Dharma an am going out to my spot under the
tree
and am going to read for eight hours.
Just in case anyone wanted to
come
along on the journey of our minds that connects our minds.
-Jon
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:32:29 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: der doc
<der_doc@ROCKETMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: list
MIME-Version:
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===
visit
my web site, The Beat(en) Regeneration
(http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6131)
for
info on the Beat, Beatnik and Neo-Beat subcultures
---Mike
Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET> wrote:
>
> At
04:44 PM 9/11/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Rinaldo,
>
>You should also add Howard Hart to your list.
>
>Cordially,
>
>Michael Skau
>
>9/11/97
>
>
>
>
>
Hell, why not add Bret Harte, Moss Hart
>
and Harte Crain?
>
>
Mike Rice
>
Yeah! Hey why we're at it, lets all add ourselves
to the list! Me
first
me first! Now that we're all on the
list I guess we don't need
our own
real "Beat-ness" our beatitude or anything to define us cause
NOW
WE'RE ALL ON THE LIST O' BEATS AREN'T WE SOOOOOO COOL NOW!
If you
ask me, this List o' Beats thing is pretty dumb. Like I been
sayin': Beats are Beat is Beat. They know, you know, we know. So
let's
just cut the discussion.
"Gee
I think that so-and-so is Beat"
"No
way, they're such-and-such"
What's
going on here? Is it recess for your
brains?
Adam J Muszkiewicz
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by
RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:02:15 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dixon Edmiston <DIXCIN@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Life and Times of Allen Ginsberg
Ginsberg-PBS-Wednesday 10:00 pm EDT September 17
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:02:48 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: list
In a
message dated 97-09-12 14:36:56 EDT, Adam effused:
<<
Beats are Beat is Beat. They know, you
know, we know. So
let's just cut the discussion.
"Gee I think that so-and-so is
Beat"
"No way, they're such-and-such"
What's going on here? Is it recess for your brains?
Adam J
Muszkiewicz
>>
Adam, I
think the list is meant to be historic, as a sort of documentation of
the
ones who blazed the trail.
I do
disagree that being "Beat" is a mindset, or something anyone can
aspire
to
today. In the 1920s there were flappers, but there are no flappers today.
During
the Depression, there were gangsters, but they in no way resemble the
gangsters
of today. In the Forties there were beboppers, and there are no
beboppers
being born today. In the Fifties, there were peaceniks (Ban the
Bomb),
and they've all but passed away. In the Sixties, there were hippies,
but no
one can become a hippie today.
Know
what I mean? What is, is. What was, was.
You may
subscribe to Beat principles and virtues (by your singular
definition),
but that will never make you a Beat.
Lastly,
give credit where it is due. Don't try to co-opt a feeling and being
that
you had no hand in creating.
At
best, we are secondary and tertiary Beat characters, if we're Beat at all.
And I,
for one, am not a Beat, but I thank god for them.
diane
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:29:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: The Kerouac Quarterly available now!!!
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
This is
going to the printers this coming week. A good many will be sold at
the
upcoming Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! Festival. I am only printing one set
amount.
If you
would like one please e-mail me to hold which I will do up to the
weekend
of October 3rd. Unless you e-mail me again before the vents I cannot
hold it
for you. This issue features 4 essays on Jack Kerouac, the Berg
Collection,
and more...for more details go to The Kerouac Quarterly web
page.
Thanks all! Paul of TKQ...
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/page1.html
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 21:27:26 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dufour <dufour@ULISSE.IT>
Subject: One minute of "virtual
silence" for Mother Teresa
MIME-Version:
1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Rest in
peace
-----------------
Francesco.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:53:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: The Life and Times of Allen Ginsberg
Mime-Version:
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Its
next Wednesday, September 17th, where I live, so I'm assuming
it is
not wrong. Did anyone get the Tennessee
Williams American
Masters,
on PBS, a few weeks ago. I
mean,
has anyone got it on tape. My VCR cut
it off in the middle,
and I
don't know anyone who would tape it here. Please write back
if
you're willing to mail it to me for a price.
Mike
Rice
At
08:46 AM 9/12/97 -0700, you wrote:
>===
>visit
my web site, <a
>href="http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6131">The
Beat(en)
>Regeneration</a>
>(http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6131)
>for
info on the Beat, Beatnik and Neo-Beat subcultures
>
>
>
>
>
>---Jennifer
Thompson <thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU> wrote:
>>
>>
On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, Alex Howard wrote:
>>
>>
> Just letting everyone know that PBS will be showing this next
>Wednesday
at
>>
> 10. Check local listings yadda
yadda yadda.....
>>
>
>>
> Check out the pbs.org site. They
have a lot of stuff there.
>>
>
>>
> ------------------
>>
> Alex Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
>University
>>
> kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
>>
> http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC
28608
>>
>
>>
10 a.m. or p.m.?
>>
jt
>>
>
>I
think it's a little late to find that out... considering that was
>THIS
LAST wednesday...
>_____________________________________________________________________
>Sent
by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 16:40:41 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Adam J Muszkiewicz disciplinary hearing
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To:
Lieutenant Adam J Muszkiewicz, M.D. A.K.A. "der doc"
From: Sgt Maj A. Maloney - Disciplinary Officer
This is to inform you Officer
Muszkiewicz that in my position
responsible
for discipline on the Beat Liat, I am removing your Beat
priveleges.
Until further notiice you cannot refer to yourself as "Beat" nor
can you
make any claims to ""beatness". In the course of time you will
come
to
appreciate that ANYONE can be beat and you will regret being excluded.
In the meantime you can continue to
receive mail from the Beat List
and
learn about all kinds of people who are beats; properly used, this
information
will lead you to artists, writers, filmmakers and other scions
of Beat
Culture and you will gain an expanding awareness of the world of
Beat. Praise the Lord and pass the poetry.
Hoping I sound like your
parents ....or Sister Mary
McGourty
in 4th grade!
A. Maloney, Sgt. Maj. A.K.A. "Twerp" or
"Twonny"
I'm back having fun after a short
absence. Hello to Marie and
Rinaldo
and Neil and Derek et al.....thanks Bill Gargan for the State Street
address
for Kerouac.
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"Blessed are they who can laugh at
themselves, for they shall never
cease
to be amused."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:13:16 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997091216404104@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
re:
unapproved absence from beat-L
sgt.maj.
A. Maloney
Your
admitting that you were in fact absent from beat-L without prior
written
approval from either myself or Insp. Marie Countryman will only
make
this disciplinary hearing easier. Your behavior was less than fitting
for
someone occupying sucha prestegious position with the NOva Police. I
regretfully
inform you that your rights and privledges regarding yr
position
and rank and how it pertains in regard to beat-L and beat
Literature
and Art in general is hereby under review. UNtil further notice
from
either Inspector MC or yslef consider your badge and gun revoked and
yr
position only slightly better than manny the mole.
regretfully
Inspector
D. Beaulieu
Nova
POlice
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 17:14:58 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Derek
A. Beaulieu wrote:
>
>
re: unapproved absence from beat-L
>
>
sgt.maj. A. Maloney
>
Your admitting that you were in fact absent from beat-L without prior
>
written approval from either myself or Insp. Marie Countryman will only
>
make this disciplinary hearing easier. Your behavior was less than fitting
>
for someone occupying sucha prestegious position with the NOva Police. I
>
regretfully inform you that your rights and privledges regarding yr
>
position and rank and how it pertains in regard to beat-L and beat
>
Literature and Art in general is hereby under review. UNtil further notice
>
from either Inspector MC or yslef consider your badge and gun revoked and
> yr
position only slightly better than manny the mole.
>
>
regretfully
>
Inspector D. Beaulieu
>
Nova POlice
It was
pre-approved by The Committee....
THE
COMMITTEE
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 17:44:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Crickets
In-Reply-To: <34189C55.1DDD@midusa.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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>R.
Bentz Kirby wrote:
>>
>>
David:
>>
>>
I found the crickets. In an ad for a
Nancy Griffith show it says:
>>
>>
Horizon presents
>>
>>
An Evening with
>>
>>
NANCI GRIFFITH & the Blue Moon Orchestra
>>
featuring THE CRICKETS
>>
>>
So, at least you know that they are in good hands and making a wonderful
>>
folk sound.
>>
>>
Peace,
>>
--
>>
Bentz
>>
bocelts@scsn.net
>>
>>
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
>
>that
sounds like Nancy ... used to be on her wavelength ever few weeks
>back
in iowa city ... the Mill was kinda Nancy griffith kinda place ...
>i
think greg browne or green or something or other too. used to goof
>off
at open mike nites there with guitar and persecuting music for free
>...
crowd favourite was acoustic-punk-angst-version of johndenver
>version
of Leavin on a jet plane!
>
>dbr
dbr
Its
Greg Brown. Long-time Iowa City resident. Frequent performer around
i.c.
and college towns around the country. Generous with his time and
music.
His CDs are amazing. Writes all his own music. For many,many years
he has
been referred to as the best poet to emerge from Iowa
City--including
grads of the International Writers and Poetry Workshops at
the U
of I.
A few
years ago Greg was a weekly regular on the Prairie Home
Companion--left
after about a year for (I'm thinking)
mellower gigs and
mellower
egos.
j grant
Small
Press Authors and Publishers display books
FREE
at
BookZen
http://www.bookzen.com
375,913 visitors - 07-01-96 to
07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 18:12:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Jan Kerouac books
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Help,
I
placed a hold on two Jan Kerouac books with a book seller who contacted
me (I
think) through the Beat list. A signed hard cover and the same book
in
paper.
If this
rings a bell with THE book seller, please contact me.
(I lost
some E-mail if your wondering how I managed to screw this up.)
j grant
Small
Press Authors and Publishers display books
FREE
at
BookZen
http://www.bookzen.com
375,913 visitors - 07-01-96 to
07-01-97
Small
Press Authors and Publishers display books
FREE
at
BookZen
http://www.bookzen.com
375,913 visitors - 07-01-96 to
07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 18:15:06 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: freight trains-a long rememberance
In-Reply-To: <34196779.4B2A@sunflower.com>
Mime-Version:
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quoted-printable
>In
Mo. all trains stop in neuburg. It is
best to pick up your train in
>a
small town that acts as a switching station. to get on and off there,
>don't
use the big cities as your depot. Both
the hobo population and
>the
guards are rougher. Avoid amtrak for
unticketed riding. Carry a
>thermal
( metalic sheet camping blanket) Watch weight , go light.
>Pick
flat bed cars for easy exit, sometimes box cars are locked at
>departure
and can stay locked for days..
Switching stations can be
>determined
by track maps.
>
>proverty
is ugliest when you can't afford food or getting the cavity
>filled
but if you are unencumbered the old old story is freedom and money
>don't
>necessarily travel together.
>
>p
Having
ridden freights for a number of summers during the 40s I learned to
avoid
gondolas (the half-cars with no tops) loaded with poles, metal rods,
any
cargo that can shift. A traveler can be tempted by the areas at the
ends of
the cars where there's protection from the wind and a place to
stretch
out. But shifting loads, caused by emergency stops, or jolts when
starting,
have caused the deaths of the inexperienced. Trap doors that can
gain
you entry to the space at the ends of refridgerated cars have been
used to
hid in. Unfortunately, these are frequently difficult to get out
of.
If you
ride a flat car with equipment on it make sure you leave onthing
onthe
bd of the car to indicate that a person has been there. I once
crawled
in the large scoop of a huge back-hoe. A bull would have to climb
to the
top of a box car to look in. But, I left traces of lunch. Was
ordered
out, and got out in Fargo.
When
jumping a moving freight grab the ladder on the front end of the car.
If you
miss-judge the speed and are grabbing the ladder at the rear you can
get
slammed between the cars and the weight of your body is going to break
your
grip. Don't boost yourself into an open door of a moving freight
unless
there are two of you. One can boost the other on and the other can
grab
your hand and pull you up. If you do this on your own you can end up
on your
belly with nothing to grab, your ass off the edge and your feet
grabbing
air.
If
you're crossing tracks and waiting for a train to pass, hesitate before
crossing
behind a train. Noise frequently drowns out the sound of a train
coming
from the other direction on the next track. Lost a careless friend
who was
in too much of a rush.
In the
book of Meridel LeSueur's writings titled "RIPENING: Selected Works,
1927-1980"
on page 154 there is a short story titled Moon Bums...three
women
waiting for a freight in Mineapolis back in the Thirties. Two taking
off
heading for the warmth of the South. The other (Meridel) seeing them
off, is
a story that Beat-listers would enjoy.
In a seperate book, can't
figure
out which one right now, LeSueur describes picking up a hitchhiker
as she
drives West.
LeSueur's
writing and my experience with hitchhiking and freights made
these
stories two of the most memorable I have read on the subject.
Charlie
Plymell probably has things to offer about these two stories that
would
reveal much better than my words can, what I feel about the stories
and
about LeSueur.
I
frequently hopped freights when I was a kid, but it's really dangerous. A
person
has to be strong and agile, or very, very
savvy.
Most
memorable freight train ride for me was in 1945 a week or so after I
had
turned 15. Two friends and I were waiting for anything heading East out
of
Coure D'Alene, Idaho. We were already a week late to start our sophomore
year
at Marshall High, East
Minneapolis. We had stolen a hand car
just
outside
Spokane late the night before. It was a cold ride in the mountains
even
though we had to work hard pumping up the grades. It was getting
light
when we got to Coure D'Alene. We tipped the handcar off to the side
and
walked into the yards. There was a line of cars rip-tracked. A flatbed
had a
U.S. Navy bus on it and was blocked so we were able to crawl under
the bus
and be hidden from yard-bulls. We slept most of the day.
Late in
the afternoon we were jolted awake and ended up part of a train
heading
East. As we slowly got moving more and more hobos jumped on until
it was
really crowded on the flatbed. Just before dark I made my way to the
front
of the bus and with the help of a small tool-kit was able to open the
door
without breaking any glass. I remember being surprisd that none of the
men
knew how to do it.
Everyone
piled into the bus. I announced that my two friends and I owned
the two
long seats at the front and the floor between them. There were no
complaints.
In fact we were shown a degree of respect we hadn't experienced
as kids
before.
By the
time we got to Billings--probably 500 plus miles from Cour D'Laene
almost
every seat in the bus was taken. The cars were rip-tracked in
Billings.
We stayed low as the bulls walked by checking for broken
windows--no
one climbed up for closer looks. Finally, when it had been
quiet
for a few minutes I eased the door open and looked up and down the
line.
There was a bull about a block away. It
was beginning to get light.
I said
adios, asked if anyone wanted to buy a used navy bus, and told the
group
we were "hit'n the gravel and haul'n ass. Everyone agreed that they
should
do the same thing. We waited until all the blankets and gear was
packed-lined
up and eased the door open. I was the first off. As soon as I
hit the
gravel the bull turned. He took a step in our direction, but just
as my
two friends landed he stopped--frozen in his tracks--as hobo after
hobo
after hobo --there was about 25 of us--made the jump and ran. The
highway
was only a short run across the yard, but my friends and I stood
there,
watching and wondering what the bull would do. By the time the last
few had
jumped the bull started running, but must have decided it was best
to get
help so he ran away from us. In less than a couple of minutes there
wasn't
a soul around.
The
three of us eased over to the highway and walked into an all-night
diner
with only a cook on duty. The counter was lined with
punch-boards--which
were everywhere back then, nowhere now.
We ordered
burgers
and while the fellow was in the kitchen I started punching tickets
out of
the .50=A2 and the $1 boards. Everytime the cook turned his head we'd
punch.
After picking out the winners we perched on our stools waiting for
the
food. Once served we asked the old guy
about where we could jump a
freight
East. Since we were so young he was quick with fatherly advice.
Talk
turned to money and we said we had to ride the rails because we were
almost
broke. My friend said, "Let's take a chance on a punch board? " The
cook
chuckled and said, "You might get lucky." Perry, (the youngest and
smallest)
had a flair for the dramatic and took his St. Christopher medal
from
around his neck and held it over the punch board while explaining to
the
cook that he had fallen into the Spokane River a few weeks earlier and
would
have drowned if the chain hadn't got caught on a branch. It wasn't
easy
keeping a straight face when the cook said he'd read about it in the
paper
and thought he recognized him from the picture.
We
would punch, read the number, palm the piece of paper for one of the
winners
we already had, hand it to the cook and he'd pay us.
After a
few winners the cook asked us to try it without the St. Christopher
medal.
We allowed ourselves a loser and did it a couple of times for
effect.
But with the medal hanging over the board we won every time. The
cook
tried to buy the St. Christopher medal from Perry without success. He
was
pissed that it was an engraved gift from his mom and swore he was going
to
start carrying spares. We walked out with almost a hundred dollars--big
bucks
in '45.
Other
than getting busted in Jamestown, North Dakota the rest of the trip
was
uneventful. Once the freight was on the
move they let us go. But we
were
young, had all the energy to spare, casually walked a block away from
the
tracks, and ran all the way through Jamestown--Jimtown to the
hobos--and
caught the same freight. We got off where we got on--South East
Mpls by
Van Cleve Park, a half block from home.
j grant
Small
Press Authors and Publishers display books
FREE
at
BookZen
http://www.bookzen.com
375,913 visitors - 07-01-96 to
07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 18:25:54 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
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>On
9/11/97, Michael Skau wrote:
Rinaldo,
You
should also add Howard Hart to your list.
>On
9/11/97, Mike Rice wrote:
Hell,
why not add Bret Harte, Moss Hart
and
Harte Crain?
Mike,
Like
Patricia, I was completely disconcerted by the tone of your response.
You
later wrote that you didn't know who Howard Hart was.
Well,
his poem "exodus #2" was included in Stanley Fisher's 1960
collection
_Beat Coast East_; his poem "Angel" appears in Elias
Wilentz's
_The Beat Scene_ (together with a photograph of him by Fred
McDarrah.
Furthermore, consider the following sentence from Fred
McDarrah's
_Beat Generation: Glory Days in Greenwich Village_:
"The
first jazz and poetry event in Greenwich Village was at the Brata
Gallery,
89 East 10th Street, on November 19, 1957, when Jack Kerouac,
Philip
Lamantia, and Howard Hart, a jazz drummer as well as poet, read
poetry
to the music of David Amram's French horn." (p. 81; McDarrah's book
also
includes Howard Hart in five of the books photographs).
If you
didn't know who Howard Hart was, all you had to do was ask. People
on this
beat listservice have a lot to share with each other, but a
smart-ass
attitude is not encouraging to such sharing.
Sincerely,
Michael
Skau
9/12/97
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:09:26 -0400
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From: Sean Elias <SPElias@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: hitchhiking
In a
message dated 97-09-11 11:12:22 EDT, you write:
<<
An endangered species at best >>
Perhaps,
also, a lost art...It seems that what we must do, in this age of
AIDS, mass murderers, and madmen, is protect
ourselves...If I see someone
with an
obvious knife sticking out of their back pocket (not to mention their
back,
leg, liver or thigh) I'm not likely to pick them up....Which is not to
say
that this object is not an unwise thing to carry with you??????????
The
"Denny's" thing sounds o.k.....get to know the person/people you are
trusting
with your life......in a 500000 lb. vehicle going thru a paris
tunnel.......
sorry,
I'm sick...............s.e.e.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:38:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sean Elias <SPElias@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: hitchhiking
In a
message dated 97-09-11 15:34:25 EDT, you write:
<<
I talked at some length with
Don-the-hitchhiker-at-Denny's who is 66 and
fits the stereotypes of the hobo that are no
longer nostalgically
understood.
He smells. He has old worn clothes. He smokes
cigarettes.
He is a "drinker". And
he has a face "that looks like 25
miles of bad road." >>
Yea,
that's the thing...you have to get to KNOW somebody at the rest stop or
there
abouts (Denny's????) to go on.....
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:38:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sean Elias <SPElias@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Hitchhiking
In a
message dated 97-09-12 01:14:31 EDT, you write:
<<
But, despite this great trip, I don't really
thinking hitching was that
great an idea.
>>
I have
wonderful memories of hitching up and down the east coast in the
70's.....buying
great mind expanders from a kid we picked up on the way home
from
high (!) school.......getting a lift from somebody like rambling jack
elliot
in vermont (who WAS this guy) or somebody like him....warm, friendly,
no
scar(e)s.....
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 20:45:11 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: list
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Diane
De Rooy wrote:
>
>
Lastly, give credit where it is due. Don't try to co-opt a feeling and being
>
that you had no hand in creating.
>
> At
best, we are secondary and tertiary Beat characters, if we're Beat at all.
>
And I, for one, am not a Beat, but I thank god for them.
>
>
Diane,
Thanks
again for saying almost exactly what I wished to say in response
to this
ever resurfacing thread. Probably on the flapper-L gen-x girls
are
trying to assert their flapperhood--as pointlessly as wanna be
beatniks
do.
Bird
Lives.
J.
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:46:29 -0400
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From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: to Michel Skau and Jo Grant
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Michael,
A wonderful, erudite response to Mike
Price and in educating him you
educate
many of us. Gives some of us new research threads. Thanks a
lot....and
right on the heels of Jo Grant's terrific hoboing memoir!
It's certainly the beginnings of a
memoir Jo. Do us all a big favor
and
send out some more...or give us more of a description of the May Fest
celebrations
that you once mentioned.
The train riding story was amazingly
well timed. I've been thinking
about a
compilation of train songs and stories that I've wanted to put
together
and was listening to a new Library of Congress CD of railroad songs
that's
just come out. Great stuff. Finished listening and came down to check
my
e-mail and find your story. What a treat!
Antoine (still talkative
despite having my priveleges
removed...thanks
Derek, Marie and David; I needed that jolt of humor!)
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"Blessed are they who can laugh at
themselves, for they shall never
cease
to be amused."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 20:54:13 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
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From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: list
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Michael
Skau wrote:
> If
you didn't know who Howard Hart was, all you had to do was ask. People
> on
this beat listservice have a lot to share with each other, but a
>
smart-ass attitude is not encouraging to such sharing.
Actually
Michael if I remember the thread correctly it was not Patricia
who
didn't recognize Mr. Hart. For the
record, neither did I. I think
it is
helpful for people nominating folks to the list to give some
identity. Few of us West Coasties would recognize
every East Coaster
and
vice verse.
But I
remember Patricia seconding the nomination of Howard Hart and
joining
you in objecting to Mr. Rice's (I thought) funny nomination of
Moss
Hart, Bret Harte, and Hart Crane.
J.
Stauffer
J.
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 06:29:07 +0200
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: A Love Supreme by John Coltrane.
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A Love Supreme
I will do all I can to be worthy of
Thee O Lord.
It all has to do with it.
Thank you God.
Peace.
There is none other.
God is. It is so beautiful.
Thank you God. God is all.
Help us to resolve our fears and
weaknesses.
Thank you God.
In You all things are possible.
We know. God made us so.
Keep your eye on God.
Gos is. He always was. He always will
be.
No matter what...it is God.
He is gracious and merciful.
It is most important that I know Thee.
Words, sounds, speech, men, memory,
thoughts,
fears and emotions-time-all
related...
all made from one...all made
in one.
Blessed be His name.
Thought waves-heat waves-all
vibrations-
all paths lead to God. Thank
you God.
His way...it is so lovely...it is
gracious.
It is merciful-thank you God.
One thought can produce millions of
vibrations
and they all go back to
God...everything does.
Thank you God.
Have no fear...believe...thank you
God.
The universe has many wonders. God is
all.
His way...it is so wonderful.
Thoughts-deeds-vibrations, etc.
They all go back to God and He
cleanses all.
He is gracious and merciful...thank
you God.
Glory to God...God is so alive.
God is.
God loves.
May I be acceptable in Thy sight.
We are all one in His grace.
The fact that we do exist is
acknowledgement
of Thee O Lord.
Thank you God.
God will wash away all our tears...
He always has...
He always will.
Seek Him everyday. In all way seek God
everyday.
Let us sing all songs to God.
To whom all praise is due...praise
God.
No road is an easy one, but they all
go back to God.
With all we share God.
It is all with God.
It is all with Thee.
Obey the Lord.
Blessed is He.
We are from one thing...the will of
God...
thank you God.
I have seen God-I have seen ungodly-
none can be greater-none can compare to God.
Thank you God.
He will remake us...He always has and
He
always will.
It is true-blessed be His name-thank
you God.
God breathes through us so
completely...
so gently we hardly feel
it...yet,
it is our everything.
Thank you God.
ELATION-ELEGANCE-EXALTATION-
All from God.
Thank you God. Amen.
John Coltrane - December, 1964
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 00:57:35 -0000
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From: "Bruce W. Hartman, Jr."
<bwhartmanjr@INAME.COM>
Subject: Re: A Love Supreme by John Coltrane.
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Amen,
Brother Rinaldo! Thank you for sending
this to the list.
Bruce
bwhartmanjr@iname.com
http://www.geocities.com/~tranestation
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:41:05 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: hitchhiking
In-Reply-To: <9709120730.aa20270@mail.cruzio.com>
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obBeat:
am 3/4 done with _The Western Lands_. Anyone in the mood for a
discussion
on this book?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leon--
>
Well put I thought, until I got to the
+ACI-take you for a ride+ACI- bump on
> the
>
ride. I didn't know whether to take it as a
very serious warning, are you
>
sounding an alarm, or just playing around , watch out, it can happen, sort
> of
thing.
Maybe a
bad choice of words there. I meant "take you for a ride" as in take
you
somewhere, go places, like the Beat-L look at all this stuff we talk
about
& where we go --
But
also maybe a small tiny part of it "take you for a ride" like use
you,
take
you somewhere and it's not so good. Sure it can happen, people can do
anything
("everything is permitted") and who knows where it will go?
Maybe a
re-write is in order:
no,
only easy thing to do now is hitchhike on the net -- folks in chat
rooms
& irc, at ends of internet connections still talk to strangers, pass
ideas
along and communicate innermost private thoughts, typing and listening
and
open to anything, where we'll go.
email
stutz@dsl.org Copyright (c) 1997
Michael Stutz; this information is
<http://dsl.org/m/> free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL,
and as long
as this sentence remains;
it comes with absolutely NO
WARRANTY; for details see
<http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 01:37:19 -0400
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From: James Patman <INRUN8@AOL.COM>
Subject: Freight trains
This is
my first post to the list. I am normally so far behind on my
e-mail
I don't get a chance to respond to a thread. I have been
reading
the freight train thread with dismay. Having been a railroad
engineer
for the past 23 years I have seen a great deal of change
in the
way railroads operate and in the hobos who still ride the rails.
Modern
rail cars have very few places where a bo can ride safely.
Truck
trailers and containers on flatcars are everywhere and the bo
is
almost always exposed to the elements, we're talking extreme
heat
and cold here. Besides the usual dangers of derailments,
shifting
loads and slack action that can knock a bo completely off
the
train while it is moving there are other hazards that you are
probably
not aware of. Railroads haul more hazardous material
than
you can imagine. Radioactive products, radioactive waste,
poison
gas, all types of explosives,corrosives, combustibles, as
well as
biohazards such as waste from hospitals and raw sewage.
A car
that is empty almost certainly has residue, usually dust,
that
can be just as bad. That dust that will almost certainly cover
you
when you get off the train could merely be grain dust. It could
also be
any number of products that will give you severe burns
when
you try washing it off with water. Products that we take for
granted
such as chlorine and ammonia will be undeluted in a tank
car and
could easily cause serious lung damage. Also the hobo of
the
90's is a whole new breed of cat. They are bolder, far more
agressive
and more likely to be armed. As a result the railroad "bulls"
who are
actually policemen, and do carry guns, live ammo, the
whole
bit, are much more likely to treat you
as a criminal rather
than
just another trespasser. In summary for anybody who hasn't
already
deleted this post, I think this list has some really good
people
and I would hate to see anything bad happen to any of you.
Take
care and stay off the rails, it's a bums road.
James
Patman
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 02:23:49 -0400
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From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: freight trains-a long rememberance
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This is
the basis for a wonderful novel. Why
haven't
you
written it? Its the best thing I've
seen written here
since I
signed on. You are your own Visions of
Cody.
Mike
Rice
At
06:15 PM 9/12/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>In
Mo. all trains stop in neuburg. It is
best to pick up your train in
>>a
small town that acts as a switching station. to get on and off there,
>>don't
use the big cities as your depot. Both
the hobo population and
>>the
guards are rougher. Avoid amtrak for
unticketed riding. Carry a
>>thermal
( metalic sheet camping blanket) Watch weight , go light.
>>Pick
flat bed cars for easy exit, sometimes box cars are locked at
>>departure
and can stay locked for days..
Switching stations can be
>>determined
by track maps.
>>
>>proverty
is ugliest when you can't afford food or getting the cavity
>>filled
but if you are unencumbered the old old story is freedom and money
>>don't
>necessarily travel together.
>>
>>p
>
>Having
ridden freights for a number of summers during the 40s I learned to
>avoid
gondolas (the half-cars with no tops) loaded with poles, metal rods,
>any
cargo that can shift. A traveler can be tempted by the areas at the
>ends
of the cars where there's protection from the wind and a place to
>stretch
out. But shifting loads, caused by emergency stops, or jolts when
>starting,
have caused the deaths of the inexperienced. Trap doors that can
>gain
you entry to the space at the ends of refridgerated cars have been
>used
to hid in. Unfortunately, these are frequently difficult to get out
>of.
>
>If
you ride a flat car with equipment on it make sure you leave onthing
>onthe
bd of the car to indicate that a person has been there. I once
>crawled
in the large scoop of a huge back-hoe. A bull would have to climb
>to
the top of a box car to look in. But, I left traces of lunch. Was
>ordered
out, and got out in Fargo.
>
>When
jumping a moving freight grab the ladder on the front end of the car.
>If
you miss-judge the speed and are grabbing the ladder at the rear you can
>get
slammed between the cars and the weight of your body is going to break
>your
grip. Don't boost yourself into an open door of a moving freight
>unless
there are two of you. One can boost the other on and the other can
>grab
your hand and pull you up. If you do this on your own you can end up
>on
your belly with nothing to grab, your ass off the edge and your feet
>grabbing
air.
>
>If
you're crossing tracks and waiting for a train to pass, hesitate before
>crossing
behind a train. Noise frequently drowns out the sound of a train
>coming
from the other direction on the next track. Lost a careless friend
>who
was in too much of a rush.
>
>In
the book of Meridel LeSueur's writings titled "RIPENING: Selected Works,
>1927-1980"
on page 154 there is a short story titled Moon Bums...three
>women
waiting for a freight in Mineapolis back in the Thirties. Two taking
>off
heading for the warmth of the South. The other (Meridel) seeing them
>off,
is a story that Beat-listers would enjoy.
In a seperate book, can't
>figure
out which one right now, LeSueur describes picking up a hitchhiker
>as
she drives West.
>
>LeSueur's
writing and my experience with hitchhiking and freights made
>these
stories two of the most memorable I have read on the subject.
>
>Charlie
Plymell probably has things to offer about these two stories that
>would
reveal much better than my words can, what I feel about the stories
>and
about LeSueur.
>
>I
frequently hopped freights when I was a kid, but it's really dangerous. A
>person
has to be strong and agile, or very, very
savvy.
>
>Most
memorable freight train ride for me was in 1945 a week or so after I
>had
turned 15. Two friends and I were waiting for anything heading East out
>of
Coure D'Alene, Idaho. We were already a week late to start our sophomore
>year
at Marshall High, East
Minneapolis. We had stolen a hand car
just
>outside
Spokane late the night before. It was a cold ride in the mountains
>even
though we had to work hard pumping up the grades. It was getting
>light
when we got to Coure D'Alene. We tipped the handcar off to the side
>and
walked into the yards. There was a line of cars rip-tracked. A flatbed
>had
a U.S. Navy bus on it and was blocked so we were able to crawl under
>the
bus and be hidden from yard-bulls. We slept most of the day.
>
>Late
in the afternoon we were jolted awake and ended up part of a train
>heading
East. As we slowly got moving more and more hobos jumped on until
>it
was really crowded on the flatbed. Just before dark I made my way to the
>front
of the bus and with the help of a small tool-kit was able to open the
>door
without breaking any glass. I remember being surprisd that none of the
>men
knew how to do it.
>
>Everyone
piled into the bus. I announced that my two friends and I owned
>the
two long seats at the front and the floor between them. There were no
>complaints.
In fact we were shown a degree of respect we hadn't experienced
>as
kids before.
>
>By
the time we got to Billings--probably 500 plus miles from Cour D'Laene
>almost
every seat in the bus was taken. The cars were rip-tracked in
>Billings.
We stayed low as the bulls walked by checking for broken
>windows--no
one climbed up for closer looks. Finally, when it had been
>quiet
for a few minutes I eased the door open and looked up and down the
>line.
There was a bull about a block away. It
was beginning to get light.
>I
said adios, asked if anyone wanted to buy a used navy bus, and told the
>group
we were "hit'n the gravel and haul'n ass. Everyone agreed that they
>should
do the same thing. We waited until all the blankets and gear was
>packed-lined
up and eased the door open. I was the first off. As soon as I
>hit
the gravel the bull turned. He took a step in our direction, but just
>as
my two friends landed he stopped--frozen in his tracks--as hobo after
>hobo
after hobo --there was about 25 of us--made the jump and ran. The
>highway
was only a short run across the yard, but my friends and I stood
>there,
watching and wondering what the bull would do. By the time the last
>few
had jumped the bull started running, but must have decided it was best
>to
get help so he ran away from us. In less than a couple of minutes there
>wasn't
a soul around.
>
>The
three of us eased over to the highway and walked into an all-night
>diner
with only a cook on duty. The counter was lined with
>punch-boards--which
were everywhere back then, nowhere now.
We ordered
>burgers
and while the fellow was in the kitchen I started punching tickets
>out
of the .50=A2 and the $1 boards. Everytime the cook turned his head=
we'd
>punch.
After picking out the winners we perched on our stools waiting for
>the
food. Once served we asked the old guy
about where we could jump a
>freight
East. Since we were so young he was quick with fatherly advice.
>Talk
turned to money and we said we had to ride the rails because we were
>almost
broke. My friend said, "Let's take a chance on a punch board? " The
>cook
chuckled and said, "You might get lucky." Perry, (the youngest and
>smallest)
had a flair for the dramatic and took his St. Christopher medal
>from
around his neck and held it over the punch board while explaining to
>the
cook that he had fallen into the Spokane River a few weeks earlier and
>would
have drowned if the chain hadn't got caught on a branch. It wasn't
>easy
keeping a straight face when the cook said he'd read about it in the
>paper
and thought he recognized him from the picture.
>
>We
would punch, read the number, palm the piece of paper for one of the
>winners
we already had, hand it to the cook and he'd pay us.
>
>After
a few winners the cook asked us to try it without the St. Christopher
>medal.
We allowed ourselves a loser and did it a couple of times for
>effect.
But with the medal hanging over the board we won every time. The
>cook
tried to buy the St. Christopher medal from Perry without success. He
>was
pissed that it was an engraved gift from his mom and swore he was going
>to
start carrying spares. We walked out with almost a hundred dollars--big
>bucks
in '45.
>
>Other
than getting busted in Jamestown, North Dakota the rest of the trip
>was
uneventful. Once the freight was on the
move they let us go. But we
>were
young, had all the energy to spare, casually walked a block away from
>the
tracks, and ran all the way through Jamestown--Jimtown to the
>hobos--and
caught the same freight. We got off where we got on--South East
>Mpls
by Van Cleve Park, a half block from home.
>
>j
grant
>
>
>
>
>
>Small
Press Authors and Publishers display books
> FREE
> at
> BookZen
> http://www.bookzen.com
> 375,913 visitors - 07-01-96 to
07-01-97
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 01:23:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Freight trains
MIME-Version:
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James,
great of you to post this, the best
response made. I feel
ashamed,
washing memories like I did was stupid.
Thank you
p
James
Patman wrote:
>
>
This is my first post to the list. I am normally so far behind on my
>
e-mail I don't get a chance to respond to a thread. I have been
>
reading the freight train thread with dismay. Having been a railroad
>
engineer for the past 23 years I have seen a great deal of change
> in
the way railroads operate and in the hobos who still ride the rails.
>
Modern rail cars have very few places where a bo can ride safely.
>
Truck trailers and containers on flatcars are everywhere and the bo
> is
almost always exposed to the elements, we're talking extreme
>
heat and cold here. Besides the usual dangers of derailments,
>
shifting loads and slack action that can knock a bo completely off
>
the train while it is moving there are other hazards that you are
>
probably not aware of. Railroads haul more hazardous material
>
than you can imagine. Radioactive products, radioactive waste,
>
poison gas, all types of explosives,corrosives, combustibles, as
>
well as biohazards such as waste from hospitals and raw sewage.
> A
car that is empty almost certainly has residue, usually dust,
>
that can be just as bad. That dust that will almost certainly cover
>
you when you get off the train could merely be grain dust. It could
>
also be any number of products that will give you severe burns
>
when you try washing it off with water. Products that we take for
>
granted such as chlorine and ammonia will be undeluted in a tank
>
car and could easily cause serious lung damage. Also the hobo of
>
the 90's is a whole new breed of cat. They are bolder, far more
>
agressive and more likely to be armed. As a result the railroad
"bulls"
>
who are actually policemen, and do carry guns, live ammo, the
>
whole bit, are much more likely to
treat you as a criminal rather
>
than just another trespasser. In summary for anybody who hasn't
>
already deleted this post, I think this list has some really good
>
people and I would hate to see anything bad happen to any of you.
>
Take care and stay off the rails, it's a bums road.
>
>
James Patman
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 02:43:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Freight trains
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
What a
spoilsport? You certainly know what you
are talking
about. But where is the romance of the road if all
experience
has to
be politically, environmentally, and regulated(ly?) correct?
I won't
be taking any trains anytime soon, especially on the freight
section. Interesting to read what you have to say.
Mike
Rice
At
01:37 AM 9/13/97 -0400, you wrote:
>This
is my first post to the list. I am normally so far behind on my
>e-mail
I don't get a chance to respond to a thread. I have been
>reading
the freight train thread with dismay. Having been a railroad
>engineer
for the past 23 years I have seen a great deal of change
>in
the way railroads operate and in the hobos who still ride the rails.
>Modern
rail cars have very few places where a bo can ride safely.
>Truck
trailers and containers on flatcars are everywhere and the bo
>is
almost always exposed to the elements, we're talking extreme
>heat
and cold here. Besides the usual dangers of derailments,
>shifting
loads and slack action that can knock a bo completely off
>the
train while it is moving there are other hazards that you are
>probably
not aware of. Railroads haul more hazardous material
>than
you can imagine. Radioactive products, radioactive waste,
>poison
gas, all types of explosives,corrosives, combustibles, as
>well
as biohazards such as waste from hospitals and raw sewage.
>A
car that is empty almost certainly has residue, usually dust,
>that
can be just as bad. That dust that will almost certainly cover
>you
when you get off the train could merely be grain dust. It could
>also
be any number of products that will give you severe burns
>when
you try washing it off with water. Products that we take for
>granted
such as chlorine and ammonia will be undeluted in a tank
>car
and could easily cause serious lung damage. Also the hobo of
>the
90's is a whole new breed of cat. They are bolder, far more
>agressive
and more likely to be armed. As a result the railroad "bulls"
>who
are actually policemen, and do carry guns, live ammo, the
>whole
bit, are much more likely to treat you
as a criminal rather
>than
just another trespasser. In summary for anybody who hasn't
>already
deleted this post, I think this list has some really good
>people
and I would hate to see anything bad happen to any of you.
>Take
care and stay off the rails, it's a bums road.
>
>James
Patman
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 03:00:14 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Patman <INRUN8@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Freight trains
>James,
great of you to post this, the best response made. I feel
>ashamed,
washing memories like I did was stupid. thank you
>p
p, I
was not trying to be judgemental or put you or anyone else down.
What I
was trying to do was inform anyone thinking of riding the rails
about
what a mean and dangerous place they have become in the 90's
sorry
if I made you feel bad.
James
P.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 02:22:18 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Freight trains
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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James
Patman wrote:
>
>
>James, great of you to post this, the best response made. I feel
>
>ashamed, washing memories like I did was stupid. thank you
>
>p
>
> p,
I was not trying to be judgemental or put you or anyone else down.
>
What I was trying to do was inform anyone thinking of riding the rails
>
about what a mean and dangerous place they have become in the 90's
>
sorry if I made you feel bad.
>
>
James P.
i don't
feel that bad, one of the things i like about burroughs is the
unwashed
facts. I was sentimental about my brief
sanitized brush with
rails,
enchanted by jo Grant's stories, but the beauty in your
explanation
came from seeing. you know about it and
said.
This
freight thread has been powerfully evocative for me.
I don't feel it is sentimental to try to
somehow convey the magic that
iron
travel can charge within you. I remember taking a passanger train
from
Jefferson city with a beautifully intense and obssessed musician,
sneaking
to the back of the train, and listening to him play wild
trumpet
to the stars, the sound bouncing between the trees and the the
water
as the train drove through Missouri along the river.The whistle
playing
against the stars that raced behind us.
The business about rather the beats
were sentimental or not seemed to
be
avoiding the difference between that great hard grab of being
attacked
by your emotions and inventing feelings that fit the scene or
were
appropriate. Some of the stupidest
remarks i have ever heard were
people
dismissing feelings and emotions, not letting them join thought
and
ideas as valid parts of a whole. Is it
sentimental to love so much
that
you are reborn or to forgive shit so low as to raise bile to your
throat?
Thinking
about that train ride reminded me that my favorite short poem
was
about that guy.
Mr.
Pounds
you
remind me of a jackass my father had,
no one
could ride him, he broke my brothers arm.
It made
me like you
but it
didn't mean I wanted to ride you.
P
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 02:12:10 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: Hitchhiking
MIME-Version:
1.0
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Thanks for the clarification. I am relieved.
I was
hoping there were no dark foreboding underpinning there. We are on the
same
wave length. Surfing the good waves. A bit of real danger is there.
Surprising,
stunning new vistas all the time. Maybe even a cherished belief
threatened
here and there. Right now a sudden thought. How many wonderful
people,
creative outpourings, hidden corners of world wide treasures, leap
into
full view in my mind through this
screen. How much brilliant light is
jumping
out of the many facets of the jewels of the best minds, turning
right
in front of me, spinning, delicately engaging. Between the fingertips
of
loving dedicated experts on life as well as on books , lucky to have made
their
way close to the pioneering adventures of the mind, the great
adventurers
who spin them, pioneers of our age. So happy to see you all
passing
by. Flashes of the worlds of fiction and of reality. Had no idea of
the
possibilities of hitching rides in the skies,
friends
zooming by our paths.Look at that! Awesome. So much fascinating
stuff
to unfold. The stuff of our lives, diamonds in the rough.The Beat-L
hitchiking
gang. What a ride to hitch. Including
our newest acquaintance
Yan who took us off on this ride where we also
met the clear eyes of the
young
girl begging in China. Don't we all wish we could know her more too?
Are we
going to run into her another time?
My
guardian cops are getting nervous. Aren't there questions already rising,
are we
too romantic? All this flowery language. But how true it is. Why dim
the
lights, bundle up in the cold, when the riches of life are here to
brighten
and warm our lives. It is hard to find enough words.
So we
keep surfing Mike. Not too carefully. Looking for for the next good
wave.
Don't want to miss it.
By the
way, did you notice Rinaldo's photo on his list site?
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/home.htm
I wonder what the huge stack of papers is
about?
Ask Rinaldo? O.K. I am asking you Rinaldo. Where you heading there
with
that mysterious armful load? Nice to meet the rest of the package that
beams
to us these these refreshing flashes for all ocassions.
That
reminded me to take another look at your site. So how is copyleft
progressing?
It may not seem beat related right off hand, but I think how
relevant
it would be for future Kerouacs, etc, in a world where copyleft
replaced
royalties and other restraints upon creative happiness and gifts to
the
world.
ciao
leon
obBeat:
am 3/4 done with _The Western Lands_. Anyone in the mood for a
>discussion
on this book?
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
>
>
>Leon--
>
>>
Well put I thought, until I got to the
"take you for a ride" bump on
>> the
>>
ride. I didn't know whether to take it as a
very serious warning, are
you
>>
sounding an alarm, or just playing around , watch out, it can happen,
sort
>>
of thing.
>
>Maybe
a bad choice of words there. I meant "take you for a ride" as in take
>you
somewhere, go places, like the Beat-L look at all this stuff we talk
>about
& where we go --
>
>But
also maybe a small tiny part of it "take you for a ride" like use
you,
>take
you somewhere and it's not so good. Sure it can happen, people can do
>anything
("everything is permitted") and who knows where it will go?
>
>Maybe
a re-write is in order:
>
>no,
only easy thing to do now is hitchhike on the net -- folks in chat
>rooms
& irc, at ends of internet connections still talk to strangers, pass
>ideas
along and communicate innermost private thoughts, typing and
listening
>and
open to anything, where we'll go.
>
>
>email
stutz@dsl.org Copyright (c) 1997
Michael Stutz; this information is
><http://dsl.org/m/> free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL,
and as long
> as this sentence remains;
it comes with absolutely NO
> WARRANTY; for details see
<http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.
>.-
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 02:55:22 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Where is Charley?
MIME-Version:
1.0
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I keep telling myself Charley is O.K. Charley
is busy . Charley is coming
back.
Wha happind? Sure miss your fine needle stitching our quilt with
dazzling
thread. You here lurking Charles Plymell? Anybody know?
leon
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 05:19:12 +0530
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Crickets
MIME-Version:
1.0
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jo
grant wrote:
>
>
>R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
>>
>
>> David:
>
>>
>
>> I found the crickets. In an ad
for a Nancy Griffith show it says:
>
>>
>
>> Horizon presents
>
>>
>
>> An Evening with
>
>>
>
>> NANCI GRIFFITH & the Blue Moon Orchestra
>
>> featuring THE CRICKETS
>
>>
>
>> So, at least you know that they are in good hands and making a
wonderful
>
>> folk sound.
>
>>
>
>> Peace,
>
>> --
>
>> Bentz
>
>> bocelts@scsn.net
>
>>
>
>> http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
>
>
>
>that sounds like Nancy ... used to be on her wavelength ever few weeks
>
>back in iowa city ... the Mill was kinda Nancy griffith kinda place ...
>
>i think greg browne or green or something or other too. used to goof
>
>off at open mike nites there with guitar and persecuting music for free
>
>... crowd favourite was acoustic-punk-angst-version of johndenver
>
>version of Leavin on a jet plane!
>
>
>
>dbr
>
Jo,
thanks
for reminding me ... i got it now...
I
didn't ever meet much from Writer's Workshop there. Seemed like they
either
taught you how to stick your nose very high in the air and say
I'm
from the Writer's Workshop or they taught you how to bum money from
poorer
graduate students. I was a bit taken by
the mystique at first
but
soon got over it. I remember walking
through some foreign festival
of
writer's workshoppers talking with them about legends of iowa city
and
kissing the black angel in the cemetery and whatnot and invisibility
at the
hamburg inn and they didn't seem to have been taught anything
about
living within such legends and then integrating towards writing
experiences. Never really figures out what they did write
about.
So
those of you who love the Iowa writer's workshop go ahead and blast
me
now. I think i'd head west to boulder
at drop of a nickel if looking
into
such things.
dbr
>
dbr
>
>
Its Greg Brown. Long-time Iowa City resident. Frequent performer around
>
i.c. and college towns around the country. Generous with his time and
>
music. His CDs are amazing. Writes all his own music. For many,many years
> he
has been referred to as the best poet to emerge from Iowa
>
City--including grads of the International Writers and Poetry Workshops at
>
the U of I.
>
> A
few years ago Greg was a weekly regular on the Prairie Home
>
Companion--left after about a year for
(I'm thinking) mellower gigs and
>
mellower egos.
>
> j
grant
>
>
Small Press Authors and Publishers display books
> FREE
> at
> BookZen
> http://www.bookzen.com
> 375,913 visitors - 07-01-96 to
07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 09:40:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: software nightmare
In-Reply-To: <3419BEE2.A6C@midusa.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
insp d:
i may be lost in cyberspace for a while. downloaded new netscape to
free myself
of eudora lite (worst mail program i ever had, can't download
attachments,
missed all those great pics and jpegs that were sent, now
might
loose all addresses, etc once i install in my intrepidly stupidity of
changing
systems. but i'm giving it a shot. i have same isp and address.
wish me
luck, all.
>Derek
A. Beaulieu wrote:
>>
>>
re: unapproved absence from beat-L
>>
>>
sgt.maj. A. Maloney
>>
Your admitting that you were in fact absent from beat-L without prior
>>
written approval from either myself or Insp. Marie Countryman will only
>>
make this disciplinary hearing easier. Your behavior was less than fitting
>>
for someone occupying sucha prestegious position with the NOva Police. I
>>
regretfully inform you that your rights and privledges regarding yr
>>
position and rank and how it pertains in regard to beat-L and beat
>>
Literature and Art in general is hereby under review. UNtil further notice
>>
from either Inspector MC or yslef consider your badge and gun revoked and
>>
yr position only slightly better than manny the mole.
>>
>>
regretfully
>>
Inspector D. Beaulieu
>>
Nova POlice
>
>It
was pre-approved by The Committee....
>
>THE
COMMITTEE
>
>david
rhaesa
>salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 08:03:02 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: software nightmare
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="utf-7"
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Hi,
Drank
some juice, had some coffee, the bottomless heart nagging my brain,
decided
to go ahead and ask you what you meant, and then looked in the inbox
again,
here you are
I saved
all the pictures that we got, no problem, can be forwarded to you
whenever
you are ready.
Leon
+AD4-insp
d: i may be lost in cyberspace for a while. downloaded new netscape to
+AD4-free
myself of eudora lite (worst mail program i ever had, can't download
+AD4-attachments,
missed all those great pics and jpegs that were sent, now
+AD4-might
loose all addresses, etc once i install in my intrepidly stupidity of
+AD4-changing
systems. but i'm giving it a shot. i have same isp and address.
+AD4-wish
me luck, all.
+AD4-
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 12:32:14 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: software nightmare
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>
sorry all: my and leon's mail going to list. i can't seem to cut and paste
>
private addresses netscape is already driving me crazy as my life flashes in
>
public before my eyes. and poor leon's too. ah, well.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 12:33:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Fog
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
multipart/alternative;
boundary="------------CA723C5BFAA837603DC21D2C"
--------------CA723C5BFAA837603DC21D2C
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
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FOG
Fog-foam
in twin fountains
Is art.
Cutup
by the unseen artist
On a
broader page.
It is
assimilated.
Further,
Genetic
imprinting,
Tiny
Tot Coupe
Sits
top broken,
Next to
broken down car.
Abandoned.
Fog
comes off the lake,
Like
bubbles from a fountain.
As if
sculpted by
Teen
age pranksters.
Assimilated.
Fog,
Shrouding
my soup,
Cooking
below
The
surface.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
--------------CA723C5BFAA837603DC21D2C
Content-Type:
text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
<HTML>
<CENTER>FOG</CENTER>
<P>Fog-foam
in twin fountains
<BR>Is
art.
<BR>Cutup
by the unseen artist
<BR>On
a broader page.
<BR>It
is assimilated.
<P>Further,
<BR>Genetic
imprinting,
<BR>Tiny
Tot Coupe
<BR>Sits
top broken,
<BR>Next
to broken down car.
<BR>Abandoned.
<P>Fog
comes off the lake,
<BR>Like
bubbles from a fountain.
<BR>As
if sculpted by
<BR>Teen
age pranksters.
<BR>Assimilated.
<P>Fog,
<BR>Shrouding
my soup,
<BR>Cooking
below
<BR>The
surface.
<P>--
<P>Peace,
<P>Bentz
<BR>bocelts@scsn.net
<BR><A
HREF="http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw">http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw</A>
<BR> </HTML>
--------------CA723C5BFAA837603DC21D2C--
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 12:56:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Czarnecki
<peent@SERVTECH.COM>
Subject: Iowa Writer's Workshops
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
dbr
wrote:
>I
didn't ever meet much from Writer's Workshop there. Seemed like they
>either
taught you how to stick your nose very high in the air and say
>I'm
from the Writer's Workshop or they taught you how to bum money from
>poorer
graduate students. I was a bit taken by
the mystique at first
>but
soon got over it. I remember walking
through some foreign festival
>of
writer's workshoppers talking with them about legends of iowa city
>and
kissing the black angel in the cemetery and whatnot and invisibility
>at
the hamburg inn and they didn't seem to have been taught anything
>about
living within such legends and then integrating towards writing
>experiences. Never really figures out what they did write
about.
>
>So
those of you who love the Iowa writer's workshop go ahead and blast
>me
now. I think i'd head west to boulder
at drop of a nickel if looking
>into
such things.
>
>dbr
This
morning a friend said to me that I should put in the PR for my
upcoming
reading tour of Iowa:
"Has
not been part of the Iowa Writer's Workshops!"
Sounds
like a good idea to me!
Iowa
City is not on the schedule.
Michael
C
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 13:26:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jenn Fedor <Tread37@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: membership
Marlene
- you are so cute! you mailed to the
list and i got it! that's
sooooo
cool! i'd like you to sign on too! i just had to reply! i know the
message
wasn't even intended for me, but oh, well!
love ya!
as
ever,
jenn
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 14:49:29 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James J Stavola
<JDSept@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: A Love Supreme by John Coltrane.
obviously
a great man COLTRANE
his
sense
of exploration is a mirror
of
the
writings of the beats
obviously
a great
man COLTRANE
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 11:52:45 -0700
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From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: hitchhiking
Comments:
cc: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
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I read
it as meaning that he felt America was changing even then, but if
you
hitchhiked in the same area at about the same time and didn't feel
it,
then perhaps this is another way in which his depression caused him
to see
the darker side of things.
Hello
Diane,
I
understand that you would like to accept Kerouac's passionate
interpretation
of his spellbindingly related observations as representing
what
was really out there. Look how bad it was getting to be. That would
confirm
my beliefs about the continuous change, decaying of the old ways. I
appreciate
your supportive intentions and I thank you for them.
There
is an interesting aspect here that speaks to a question that you told
us was
a bit perplexing to you, although you did later tell us that you
might
have answered it for yourself. The queston was how could Kerouac put
aside
such clear and beautiful realizations that he described so
exquisitely,
with so much insight and wisdom, seemingly forget all that to
yield
to dark forces that ignored all that.
This
genius-at-work story that is such a pleasure to read, tells me
something
about your question. Like any person when depressed, brooding,
alienated
and feeling helpless, feeling guilty and
feeling that his worth
is
unappreciated by himself or others, always trying futilely to break out
of the
prison that his mother's need for him keeps him in, because if he did
he
would betray his mother who would be left feeling betrayed all alone,
unliked
and ungiven to. She wanted him to stay in her world, the fence was
to hold
im in out of the bad worlds outside. Her world was dark and lonesome
to be
redeemed in heaven only if you are good and stay within bounds. He was
bad for
even wanting to run away from her world. Also, God will punish him.
That
does not make him observe any less. On the contrary, people when
depressed
can start straining desperately to
notice every little detail.
Often
they prefer dimly lit surroundings, or withdraw attention altogether,
partly
because attention is too straining, a fatiguing effort. Minutest
details
can become magnified until paranoia takes over. In my professional
practice
days I have encountered incredibly detailed science fiction worlds,
where
the the weave of magnified minutiae created astounding plausible
systems.
The
dynamics of hypnotic story telling, oratory are interesting. Kerouac's
gift
was not in objectivity of detached perspective, his huge intelligence,
gifts
of observation and above all spellbinding story telling talents
(including
speed of typing) were very much in service of desperate inner
struggles
which always left him in defeat.
When I
look at the piece, I see all of that. I don't see objective or
reasonable
outlook on anything. He just doesn't like anything that he sees,
in
magnificently rousing detail, his horror filled eyes show him only
negative
aspects of things. Visors, these excelent protectors from the sun,
become
idiotic fashion statements, wifes all run their husbands lives, with
mysigenous
lack of compassion, kids are always screaming and fighting,
etc..
Maybe I
am belaboring the point too much. but I do feel that when confronted
with
overpoweringly brilliant presentations, we can be so easily misled that
we are
being shown things as they are, when in fact we see the magnificent
results
of inner overpowering feelings transformed into outer realities.
The magnificent
descriptions of Neal, in my opinion, also were determined
more by
his desperate need to transform himself. Neal was a human
representation
that encouraged the possibility of freeing himself, of
becoming
someone that he wasn't. In his inner eye, by the light of his
magnifying
lantern, visions and shadows were becoming exaggerations
approaching
distortion. The stuff that hero worship is made off, that also
has
bult in disappointment for when the time is ripe.
Beginning
to sound to me like psychological tripe. Still I feel there is
truth
in them confusing words. Maybe I should wait until I can say it in a
sentence
or two. Anyway, it is because I respect your critical analyses so
much,
that I am trying to clumsily communicate to you what I see here.
leon
Either
see the darker side of things, or paint things over with the darker
side of
himself. For example, the visors may have looked idiotic to him,
they
are quite helpful to drivers in the bright sun. Nor is it likely that
the
majority of wifes that he saw exercised such power over their husbands,
nor
would I conclude on the basis of Jack'e desperate mood at the time, that
the
kids were all such spoiled brats fighting and screaming all the time.
To me
it seems that Jack was looking at everything, always, with a foregone
conclusion
that he wil be let down. No matter how promising he could make
whatever
he was looking at outside the perimeter of mother's permitted
world.
Wondering outside with a lantern that magnified and added brilliant
colors
to everything he was looking at, taking snapshots and running
dazzling
commentary to tell the world about his finds, he could convince the
world,
but he himself was still shivering in the cold dark with a lantern in
his hand.
Only at mother's home could he put that magnifying lantern down.
But it
was dark and lonely there also.
Jack was +ACI-sick of life+ACI- through most
of Big
Sur and many of his older joys (and I would see hitchhiking as one
of
them) no longer held much meaning for him.
DC
.-
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 17:23:20 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>
Subject: "Listen all you boards and
syndicates...."
Comments:
cc: DAVIDSROSEN@compuserve.com
Fellow
Travelers:
Lately,
I have barely been able to keep up with the fertile threads, let
alone
respond to them or contribute my own.
Two themes which have
particularly
caught my attention are the ongoing discussion of sentimentality
(originated
by Bill Gargan's question to the List as to whether this is a
general
characteristic of Beat writing), and a more recent sub-theme
branching
out of the hitchhhiking reminiscences toggled by Yan's asking us
whether
it is still practiced here.
My
Webster's New (very old and battered after decades of service, actually)
Collegiate
Dictionary defines "sentimental" as "marked or governed by
feeling,
sensibility, or emotional idealism...resulting from feeling rather
than
reason or thought...having an excess of sentiment or sensibility".
Applying these definitions to the Beats,
especially William S. Burroughs and
Jack
Kerouac, with whom I'm most familiar, I can see that they are partly
relevant
to their works. Certainly, both WSB and
JK are tuned into their
feelings
and sensibilities, if not altogether governed by them, in their
lives
as much as their works. In WSB's case,
a lack of direction and
ungrounded
feelings drifted toward junk "by default" (read his introduction
to
JUNKY), which proceeded to govern his movements like those of an insect.
A wandering sensitivity and alienation
ironically led to the total
usurpation
of sentiment while he was suspended in the metabolic grip, a mass
of
"junk-hungry cells" clamoring to "drink from the
needle". His predicament
resulted
more from feeling than from reason in the sense of sensibilities
with
nowhere to roost in a senseless society (maybe I've been reading too
much
Dr. Seuss to my son), but ultimately from neither, his High Junk Period,
so to
speak, cleared a vacuum and filled it with an ongoing and narrow cycle
of need
and its relief, "perhaps all pleasure is relief". As for emotional
idealism,
this is problematic. He had deep
emotions and was an idealist in
terms
of being a truth-searching visionary, but he was not "governed...by
emotional
idealism. Anyway, in the later works,
there is an aspect that
might
be mistaken for sentimentality but which, I think, goes beyond it into
intimations
of the supernatural, rather than sentimental.
In THE WESTERN
LANDS,
which we were discussing before collectively crashing into the news of
his
physical death, there is the prose-poetic phrase "Flashes of serene,
timeless
joy. A joy as old as suffering and
despair". Despite the
world-wariness
and pessimism that characterize his works, they also record a
search
to locate the elusive mental and emotional connection to the ethereal,
even as
the space/time-trapped body is ground down by "...the claims of the
aging,
cautious, nagging, frightened flesh".
In TWL as in other earlier and
later
chapters of his "one long work", he probes and discards the historic
layers
of cultural/religious/societal mechanisms of distraction and control,
where
the celestial (or illusory material) reward is offered for towing the
line,
and tries to get a real glimpse of what we're "here to go" to. In the
case of
TWL, it is the cumbersome and preposterous ancient Egyptian dogmas of
the
afterlife that he gets past, in other cases it is the Mayan Codices, a
myriad
of control agents in our supposedly enlightened current societal
structures
and, of course, words themselves and the images they generate.
WSB and
JK got much further past the hurdles than most, but what did they
find? The disparity between the body and the
spirit is not a Beat
phenomenon,
it is the exclusively human phenomenon which they got especially
close
to with an especially clear vision. We
are really only (self)
glorified,
slower-motion versions of the leaves that are beginning to turn in
their
eternal cycle here in Michigan as I write this, the "quivering meat
wheel",
the process of life, if anything, is endless, not our own lives. Yet
there
IS a connection to that larger process through the life of the mind and
its
emotions. Is this
"sentimentality" or "romanticism" in its stereotypical
image
of maudlin excess, or an intimation of something just as real as
"reality"? I think that the characterizing of WSB as
severely UNsentimental
and of
JK as overly so which is often found in commentary about them here and
elsewhere
is deceiving, and misses the dimension of duality that they both
perceived
and came to terms with. WSB was
impatient to get past the
illusions,
to "smash the control images", but was not a nihilist, he
definitely
believed that there IS something past them, read the works and his
own
quotes (down to those last diary entries) and there's no doubt of it.
His insistent pursuit of clarity and honesty
might be mistaken for total
cynicism. You might say he seeks a sentimentality
beyond "sentimentality" as
it has
been appropriated by the forces of control in all their manifestations
throughout
history. And "serene, timeless joy" goes hand in hand with its
equally
venerable counterpart, "suffering and despair". The control
mechanisms
he exposes purport to be the exclusive way to the former ("but
through
(fill in the blank) can ye get through the gate"), and keep trying to
sever
its connection to the latter while threatening its application to
maintain
control. After all, "serene,
timeless joy" can't be defined or
valued
without its counterpart. And JK's image
as a euphorically
rhapsodizing
romanticist and mythologizer of himself, Neal, the very
processes
of movement and life itself, belies a tragic sensibility that is as
much
removed from "emotional idealism" as WSB. In ON THE ROAD, he rushes
toward
a river and all the freedom and movement that it symbolizes for him,
only to
run right into a fence. Our minds and
emotions can catch the
"flashes",
but while we're "here" before we "go" we can't quite get
there
from
here. JK & NC have to keep moving
to get their glimpse of IT, always
preceded
by restless anticipation and followed by letdown and the renewed
buildup
of restlessness. One way to look at it
is that he mythologizes,
romanticises
and sentimentalizes, only to sharpen the contrast between
space/time
bodily limitations and spiritual (sentimental?) infinity. But
that
river IS THERE, beyond the fence.
Well,
it never fails- the more I try to focus, the more there seems to focus
on, and
now there's no time to proceed to the other topic I mentioned at the
beginning. I must stop, or jump out of the moving
vehicle, or whatever.
Since there's no way to conclude, here's a
great quote that I think relates
to
"everything and nothing", as JK would say, and to the struggle to
reconcile
the body and the spirit.
"My
dear, I'm working on the most marvelous invention...a boy who disappears
as soon
as you come leaving a smell of burning leaves and a sound effect of
distant
train whistles."
-WSB,
NAKED LUNCH, pg. 111
Regards,
Arthur
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 17:22:07 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Iowa Writer's Workshops
In-Reply-To:
<v01530500b0403cd1d0af@[204.181.15.86]>
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>dbr
wrote:
>
>>I
didn't ever meet much from Writer's Workshop there. Seemed like they
>>either
taught you how to stick your nose very high in the air and say
>>I'm
from the Writer's Workshop or they taught you how to bum money from
>>poorer
graduate students. I was a bit taken by
the mystique at first
>>but
soon got over it. I remember walking
through some foreign festival
>>of
writer's workshoppers talking with them about legends of iowa city
>>and
kissing the black angel in the cemetery and whatnot and invisibility
>>at
the hamburg inn and they didn't seem to have been taught anything
>>about
living within such legends and then integrating towards writing
>>experiences. Never really figures out what they did write
about.
>>
>>So
those of you who love the Iowa writer's workshop go ahead and blast
>>me
now. I think i'd head west to boulder
at drop of a nickel if looking
>>into
such things.
>>
>>dbr
>
>This
morning a friend said to me that I should put in the PR for my
>upcoming
reading tour of Iowa:
>
>"Has
not been part of the Iowa Writer's Workshops!"
>
>Sounds
like a good idea to me!
>
>Iowa
City is not on the schedule.
>
>Michael
C
When in
Iowa City, look up poet Chuck Miller. With 7 or 8 published books
behind
him and praise from such luminaries as Meridel LeSueur, he's
willing--and
eager-- to discuss his experience with the Iowa Writer's
Workshop.
Referring
tothe workshop as elitist is his mildest adjective.
Plus a
conversation with Miller is always a stimulating experience.
Unfortunately
he is not on-line.
j grant
Small
Press Authors and Publishers display books
FREE
at
BookZen
http://www.bookzen.com
375,913 visitors - 07-01-96 to
07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 07:05:58 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: hitchhiking
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>
Leon Tabory wrote:
> To
me it seems that Jack was looking at everything, always, with a
>
foregone
>
conclusion that he wil be let down. No matter how promising he could
>
make
>
whatever he was looking at outside the perimeter of mother's permitted
>
world. Wondering outside with a lantern that magnified and added
>
brilliant
>
colors to everything he was looking at, taking snapshots and running
>
dazzling commentary to tell the world about his finds, he could
>
convince the
>
world, but he himself was still shivering in the cold dark with a
>
lantern in
>
his hand. Only at mother's home could he put that magnifying lantern
>
down.
>
But it was dark and lonely there also.
Leon,
All
your perceptions here hit me as being so excellent! Thank you
for not
paring it down to a few sentences. Took
me back to the old woman
in the
store window in OTR where he has that great epiphany about IT, and
he
hears the woman saying "O son! did you not ever go on your knees and
pray
for all your sins and scroundal's acts? Lost boy! Depart! Do not
haunt
my soul..." The whole hatred of
self thing he was left with, the
depression,
the drinking to numb it all. And think
about it, how many
thousands
of people have been lifted by his magnificent descriptions of
life,
and its brilliant struggles? But he couldn't reconcile inner and
outer
realities, he was continually let down by people, let down by
America,
or so he thought. In a way his
worldview was clouded by so much
psychological
garbage (not that all of our's aren't), but your
observations
on his mother are so acute:
>
She wanted him to stay in her world, the fence was to hold him in out
> of
the bad worlds outside. Her world was
dark and lonesome to be
>
redeemed in heaven only if you are good and stay within bounds. He was
> bad
for even wanting to run away from her world.
Also, God will punish
>
him.
In
spite of getting out of the world of Lowell, Mass., having experences
in New
York, Denver, San Francisco that were opposite poles from that
world;
in spite of studying eastern religions, of finally being a
successful
writer, he was never able to escape from the worldview of his
mother,
his childhood. And in the end, he dies
young, and his mother
lives
on. From a psychological perspective, I
think it also paints a
bleak
picture of how entrapping family bonds and boundaries can be.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 07:44:59 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: "Listen all you boards and
syndicates...."
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>
Arthur Nusbaum wrote:
> My
Webster's New (very old and battered after decades of service,
>
actually)
>
Collegiate Dictionary defines "sentimental" as "marked or
governed by
>
feeling, sensibility, or emotional idealism...resulting from feeling
>
rather
>
than reason or thought...having an excess of sentiment or sensibility".
> Applying these definitions to the Beats,
especially William S.
>
Burroughs and
>
Jack Kerouac, with whom I'm most familiar, I can see that they are
>
partly
>
relevant to their works. Certainly,
both WSB and JK are tuned into
>
their
>
feelings and sensibilities, if not altogether governed by them,
If you
take the meaning of sentimentality to be "marked...by emotional
idealism," I think you have to say that Burroughs,
Kerouac, and Ginsberg
all
then fit the definition to some extent.
>I
think that the characterizing of WSB as severely UNsentimental and of
>JK
as overly so which is so often found in commentary about them here
>and
elsewhere is deceiving, and misses the dimension of duality that
>they
both perceived and came to terms with...
I think
in Kerouac, as a particular example, the sentimentality lies in
his
descriptive ability and not in his sense of rushing toward the river
only to
run into a fence. The "serene,
timeless joy" polarized against
"suffering
and despair" All of these are
manifestations of his absolute
stuggle
with the meaning of human life. The
dualities are reality not
emotional
idealism. It is passages like this one
that, for me, take on
this
sentimental quality (and who ever said sentimentalism carries a
negative
connotation, anyway?):
"When
I see a leaf fall, I always say goodbye--And that has a sound which
is lost
unless there is a country stillness at which time I'm sure it
really
rattles the earth, like ants in orchestras..." VOC pg. 10
or
"...We
find the bar, rolling through October climaxes of leaves falling
and
Halloween soon and I got red October shirt ah me so sad that every
year we
have to lose our October!--poor little Rosie with her Thirties
style
short dress, pretty legs, high click heels, pinched face, perennial
cigarette,
drinksad eyes at the baron stool with little pimple this night
on chin
where you might kiss her and it would break and I hated to look
at it
though on her smooth face now in retrospect (and it's gone) it
memories
sexily like a beauty spot kind I used to see on chins of old
movie
queens in photos front of theatre--wondering if it was photo
ink..."
VOC p. 13.
I'm not
sure that Kerouac's sentimentality sharpens the contrast between
"space/time/body
and infinity"; I think it's more an attitude that he
sometimes
has that every little thing in human experience is important in
the
whole of experience and by describing the hell out of things he is
able to
transport us there, to what this moment in this bar was like, or
this
moment in this diner was like, and it is there that sometimes the
qualities
of senimentality and nostalgia merge.
But he has made us feel
we were
there, right down to the colors of the walls and floor tile. And
I think
it is in this gushiness that he and Burroughs are on different
sides
of the spectrum.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 19:00:04 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Wes Lundburg
<lundburg@TCPNETS.COM>
Subject: Japhy=Gary
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Hello,
All. I'm a former subscriber to the
list who has now returned....
and I'm
enjoying the threads. Here's a possible
new one:
Everybody
knows that Japhy Ryder in _Dharma Bums_ is Gary Snyder, of
course,
but has anybody else noticed a slip-up in the text at the end of
chapter
23? (second to the last sentence there,
in fact). Kerouac writes:
"And
I didn't wake up then till almost San Francisco in the morning. I had
a
dollar left and Gary was waiting for me at the shack. The whole trip had
been as
swift and enlightening as a dream, and I was back."
The
"Gary" is actually in my text (the Penguin edition). Does anybody know
if this
is a mis-keying on Penguin's part, or did Kerouac forget to call
him
Japhy? I can't find any other editions
on bookstore shelves to compare
it
with.
---Wes
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 21:42:15 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Luther Allison
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For
those of you like James and Richard who like the blues, you might
want to
check out the September 26, 1997, Vol 23. No. 20, Issue 448 of
Goldmine. It has two pages of tributes to Luther
Allison by his manager
and the
likes of Otis Rush.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:20:05 +0000
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List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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<randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>
From: randy royal
<randyr@MAILHUB.JAXNET.COM>
Subject: Re: Japhy=Gary
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>
Everybody knows that Japhy Ryder in _Dharma Bums_ is Gary Snyder, of
> course,
but has anybody else noticed a slip-up in the text at the end of
>
chapter 23? (second to the last
sentence there, in fact). Kerouac
writes:
>
>
"And I didn't wake up then till almost San Francisco in the morning. I had
> a
dollar left and Gary was waiting for me at the shack. The whole trip had
>
been as swift and enlightening as a dream, and I was back."
>
>
The "Gary" is actually in my text (the Penguin edition). Does anybody know
> if
this is a mis-keying on Penguin's part, or did Kerouac forget to call
>
him Japhy? I can't find any other
editions on bookstore shelves to compare
> it
with.
if i
remeber correctly, somebody brought this up a few months ago
right
when i was leaving for vacation. does anyone have an old
save/memory?
>
---Wes
thanx
randy
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 00:53:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: software nightmare
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
09:40 AM 9/13/97 -0400, you wrote:
>insp
d: i may be lost in cyberspace for a while. downloaded new netscape to
>free
myself of eudora lite (worst mail program i ever had, can't download
>attachments,
missed all those great pics and jpegs that were sent, now
>might
loose all addresses, etc once i install in my intrepidly stupidity of
>changing
systems. but i'm giving it a shot. i have same isp and address.
>wish
me luck, all.
>
>>Derek
A. Beaulieu wrote:
>>>
>>>
re: unapproved absence from beat-L
>>>
>>>
sgt.maj. A. Maloney
>>>
Your admitting that you were in fact absent from beat-L without prior
>>>
written approval from either myself or Insp. Marie Countryman will only
>>>
make this disciplinary hearing easier. Your behavior was less than fitting
>>>
for someone occupying sucha prestegious position with the NOva Police. I
>>>
regretfully inform you that your rights and privledges regarding yr
>>>
position and rank and how it pertains in regard to beat-L and beat
>>>
Literature and Art in general is hereby under review. UNtil further notice
>>>
from either Inspector MC or yslef consider your badge and gun revoked and
>>>
yr position only slightly better than manny the mole.
>>>
>>>
regretfully
>>>
Inspector D. Beaulieu
>>>
Nova POlice
>>
>>It
was pre-approved by The Committee....
>>
>>THE
COMMITTEE
>>
>>david
rhaesa
>>salina,
Kansas
>
>
My
Eudora Lite downloaded the jpgs but I couldn't get the
pictures
because they are mimes. No problems
downloading
with
Lite, tho, just deciphering the pictures.
mike
rice
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 04:54:13 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: software nightmare
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>
hey mike: i was able to down load patricia's jpegs of david and hat and ohle/
>
however james stauffer's (hi jim!) files were deemed 'corrupted' by my
netscape
>
program. i'm getting the hang of the new "communicator' software. once i
pass
>
the techno-idiot stage, i'll be rock'n'rollin here. mc
>
>
>
>
> My
Eudora Lite downloaded the jpgs but I couldn't get the
>
pictures because they are mimes. No
problems downloading
>
with Lite, tho, just deciphering the pictures.
>
>
mike rice
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 05:16:03 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: hi wes and an appeal to all
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
sorry
everyone: hi wes! glad you're back! could you please mail me directly,
so i
can put you in new address book(changing mail programs totally crashed
and
deleted all addresses.
btw:
could everyone who is in the habit of backchannel chats with me just send
a 'test'
message to me so that i can add you to new address book? right now
everytime
i try to send privately, it goes directly to list address, can't
pull
the individual addresses. with that i promise to stop whining and begging
on this
topic.
thanks
a bunch
mc
Wes
Lundburg wrote:
>
Hello, All. I'm a former subscriber to
the list who has now returned....
>
and I'm enjoying the threads. Here's a
possible new one:
>
>
Everybody knows that Japhy Ryder in _Dharma Bums_ is Gary Snyder, of
>
course, but has anybody else noticed a slip-up in the text at the end of
>
chapter 23? (second to the last
sentence there, in fact). Kerouac
writes:
>
>
"And I didn't wake up then till almost San Francisco in the morning. I had
> a
dollar left and Gary was waiting for me at the shack. The whole trip had
>
been as swift and enlightening as a dream, and I was back."
>
>
The "Gary" is actually in my text (the Penguin edition). Does anybody know
> if
this is a mis-keying on Penguin's part, or did Kerouac forget to call
>
him Japhy? I can't find any other
editions on bookstore shelves to compare
> it
with.
>
>
---Wes
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:08:00 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Out of This Planet. Au_er diesem Stern
(bertolt brecht)
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.32.19970910135820.00688d8c@maila.wm.edu>
Mime-Version:
1.0
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Au_er diesem Stern
Au_er diesem Stern, dachte ich, ist
nichts und er
Ist so verw|stet.
Er allein ist unsere Zuflucht und die
Sieht so aus.
-- BERTOLT BRECHT
Out of
this planet, I thought, there is not nothing, and it
is so
desolate.
It is
our shelter, and this
That is
the way it is.
Der Rauch
Das kleine Haus unter Bdumen am See.
Vom Dach steigt Rauch.
Fehlte er
Wie trostlos dann wdren
Haus, Bdumen und See.
-- BERTOLT BRECHT
The
small house among to the trees on the lake.
>From
the roof climbs the smoke.
If
there is not smoke
house,
trees and lake would be dismal.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 10:53:36 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Joyce Johnson
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I'm
still trying to locate her. Does ayone
have any idea of where she
could
be reached? Publisher, college, etc.?
------------------
Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 10:13:43 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: Japhy=Gary
In-Reply-To: <19970914002025112.AAA207@tcpnets.tcpnets.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
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On Sat,
13 Sep 1997, Wes Lundburg wrote:
>
Hello, All. I'm a former subscriber to
the list who has now returned....
>
and I'm enjoying the threads. Here's a
possible new one:
>
Everybody knows that Japhy Ryder in _Dharma Bums_ is Gary Snyder, of
>
course, but has anybody else noticed a slip-up in the text at the end of
>
chapter 23? (second to the last
sentence there, in fact). Kerouac
writes:
>
"And I didn't wake up then till almost San Francisco in the morning. I had
> a
dollar left and Gary was waiting for me at the shack. The whole trip had
>
been as swift and enlightening as a dream, and I was back."
>
The "Gary" is actually in my text (the Penguin edition). Does anybody know
> if
this is a mis-keying on Penguin's part, or did Kerouac forget to call
>
him Japhy? I can't find any other
editions on bookstore shelves to compare
> it
with.
>
---Wes
well, the copy i have reads "I
had a dollar left and Japhy was
waiting
for me at the shack."
Kerouac, Jack _The Dharma Bums_(New
York: Signet; 1959,
1967)pp.126-127
and by
the way: as a side note: the cover blurb on my copy reads" THE
DHARMA
BUMS by the man who launched the hippie world, the daddy of the
swinging
psychedelic generation JACK KEROUAC, author of ON THE ROAD". what
a great
blurb, huh? (smirk)
yrs
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 10:15:05 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: maya gorton?
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
hey
there beat-l'ers
does
anyone out there have maya's address as i would like to get in touch
with
her but i have lost her address. thanks a bundle
yrs
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:28:33 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Japhy=Gary
In-Reply-To:
<19970914002025112.AAA207@tcpnets.tcpnets.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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Probably
was an editor's screwup. In writing
Dharma Bums, Kerouac, as he
always
did, typed it using real names. Kerouac
didnt write "Visions of
Cody",
for instance, he wrote "Visions of Neal", the title and names were
changed
by some editor preparing the book for publication after Kerouac's
death. Neal had been dubbed "Cody" by
editors preparing "Dharma Bums",
because
for some legal reason they couldnt call him Dean Moriarty, and
years
later I guess they didnt like the sound of "Visions of Dean".
Every
time they did a book, some editor had to go back and change all the
names,
because publishers were paranoid about lawsuits. Having to deal
with
editors was probably one reason Kerouac ended up drinking himself to
death. This is like a great artist having some
outsider come along after
a
painting is finished and insisting on changing the colors. The work
becomes
something less than the author's exact vision.
This
sort of confusion is why I think they should defer to Kerouac's own
wishes
and come out with a new set of editions of the "DeLouz Legend"
books
with the real names inserted, so the works look as Kerouac typed
them
and conceived them. So we can see the
works as Kerouac saw them.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 08:18:57 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: Out of This Planet. Au_er diesem
Stern (bertolt brecht)
MIME-Version:
1.0
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text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Good Sunday Rinaldo
I am
wondering about a couple of things on your translation.
First
what does the _ stand for in Au_er
Then I
wonder why you translate "er" he, with "it" which would be
es. "Sieht
so
aus" translates for me as "looks like that" If the _ replaces an
"s" Then
the
poem should translate
Ouside
of this Star
Outside
of this star there is nothing, and he
is so
wasted.
He
alone is our refuge and it
Looks
like that.
Maybe I
am quibbling here, but it sounds a little bit different to me. I
wonder
why Brett uses "he" here
instead of it, but he does. I would seem
just as
easy for him to say "es" as it wouldh "er" But
"er" is what he
chose.
I am inclined to think that he wants to say that our star is a he and
not an
it. Also "looks like it" is not quite the same as "that's the
way it
is".
What are you thinking Rinaldo? The poetic license in the translation of
the
second don't seem that important to me, so I will stop quibbling. Have a
nice
Sunday, and thanks as usual.
ciao
leon
>
From: Rinaldo Rasa
>
Subject: Out of This Planet. Au_er diesem Stern (bertolt brecht)
> Au_er diesem Stern
>
> Au_er diesem Stern, dachte ich, ist
nichts und er
> Ist so verw|stet.
> Er allein ist unsere Zuflucht und die
> Sieht so aus.
> -- BERTOLT BRECHT
>
>Out
of this planet, I thought, there is not nothing, and it
>is
so desolate.
>It
is our shelter, and this
>That
is the way it is.
>
>
> Der Rauch
>
> Das kleine Haus unter Bdumen am See.
> Vom Dach steigt Rauch.
> Fehlte er
> Wie trostlos dann wdren
> Haus, Bdumen und See.
> -- BERTOLT BRECHT
>
>The
small house among to the trees on the lake.
>From
the roof climbs the smoke.
>If
there is not smoke
>house,
trees and lake would be dismal.
>.-
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 14:12:48 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: M84M79@AOL.COM
Subject: Subscription
Marlene_Giraud
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 14:07:00 +0530
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Subscription
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
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M84M79@AOL.COM
wrote:
>
>
Marlene_Giraud
welcome
marlene!
we are
a dangerous crew......
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kanas
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:10:48 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Japhy=Gary
Comments:
cc: DAVIDSROSEN@compuserve.com
Wes:
After
reading your post, I checked my 1958 first edition of THE DHARMA BUMS,
and saw
that the slip at the end of chapter 23 is there, referring to Gary
instead
of Japhy. Apparently, this original
error (of consistency, anyway)
was
repeated in some subsequent printings.
I agree with Richard Wallner that
the
ficitional names in all of Kerouac's works should be changed back to the
real
names he used when writing them and that every reader now knows. By
now,
the legal issues that probably were the reasons his editors insisted on
not
using real names (and at least in a few cases the objection of the people
themselves
depicted in his books) aren't likely to apply as strongly,
especially
since many of the people are, like Kerouac, no longer alive. The
following
quote (which is on the back dust jacket flap of VISIONS OF CODY,
I'm not
sure what writing it was taken from) proves that it was Kerouac's
intention
to ultimately unify the whole "Duluoz Legend" and set the record
straight:
"In
my old age, I intend to collect all my work and re-insert my pantheon of
uniform
names, leave the long shelf full of books there, and die happy."
He
died, neither old nor happy, with his intention unfulfilled.
Regards,
Arthur
S. Nusbaum
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:21:35 +0000
Reply-To: randyr@southeast.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is
<randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>
From: randy royal
<randyr@MAILHUB.JAXNET.COM>
Subject: correction
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-type:
text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding:
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>
M84M79@AOL.COM wrote:
>
>
>
> Marlene_Giraud
>
>
welcome marlene!
> we
are a dangerous crew......
david-
if marlene tried to send a subscription to the entire list,
one
would assume that she isn't subscribed yet. don't worry, i
forward
my original message of what to do to her.
>
david rhaesa
>
salina, Kanas
>
randy
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 19:52:47 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: hitchhiking
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
What a
great trainstory, Jo, and very well told.
For
those interested in hopping trains or hitchhiking, I remember that we
use to
tuck a folded $20 bill under the inside sole of a shoe (under the
toe end
rather than the heel). Small (and big) town cops used to enjoy
busting
longhairs, and a common charge was vagrancy. However, if you had
$20 or more
in cash on you, you couldn't be charged as a vagrant.
Self-protection:
a condom in your wallet and a twenty in your shoe.
Cordially,
Michael
Skau
9/14/97
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 20:06:53 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: hitchhiking
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.ULT.3.96.970914194606.26482A-100000@cwis.unomaha.edu>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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>What
a great trainstory, Jo, and very well told.
>For
those interested in hopping trains or hitchhiking, I remember that we
>use
to tuck a folded $20 bill under the inside sole of a shoe (under the
>toe
end rather than the heel). Small (and big) town cops used to enjoy
>busting
longhairs, and a common charge was vagrancy. However, if you had
>$20
or more in cash on you, you couldn't be charged as a vagrant.
>Self-protection:
a condom in your wallet and a twenty in your shoe.
>Cordially,
>Michael
Skau
>9/14/97
Thanks
Michael.
And by
the way. I was just sitting here wondering how I was going to find a
copy of
the post. Just got some requests for it. But when a checked my Sent
Mail
and I discovered I didn't have the box checked to save my mail.
I
recently switched systems and made the oversight when I re-installed
Eudora.
If you have that piece of mail would you forward a copy to me?
Thanks.
jo
Small
Press Authors and Publishers display books
FREE
at
BookZen
http://www.bookzen.com
375,913 visitors - 07-01-96 to 07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 21:10:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Link page
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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7bit
A
friend of mine who knows that I am on this list sent me the following
link. It leads back to many familiar sites like
Levi's Kicks page.
But, if
you are trying to learn about the Beats, it might be a good
resource
page. I found a site at Abeline
Christian College that I had
not
seen before.
http://www.netguide.com/Life/Arts
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 20:28:26 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Wes Lundburg
<lundburg@TCPNETS.COM>
Subject: Re: Japhy=Gary
MIME-Version:
1.0
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Arthur
Nusbaum quoted JK from the back of _Visions of Cody_:
"In
my old age, I intend to collect all my work and re-insert my pantheon
of
uniform
names, leave the long shelf full of books there, and die happy."
Thanks,
Arthur... I've seen this quote many times, but somehow it takes on
a new
meaning with the posts on this thread.
My experience with editors
has
been, ahem, stretching in many ways, too.
Sure, they know their target
audience,
want to avoid legal problems, etc, but I can see JK's
frustration...
and relate to it.
Shalom,
---Wes
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 20:17:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Wes Lundburg
<lundburg@TCPNETS.COM>
Subject: Re: Japhy=Gary
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Richard:
Thanks! Great response and great information....
---Wes
----------
>
From: Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
Subject: Re: Japhy=Gary
>
Date: Sunday, September 14, 1997 12:28 PM
>
>
Probably was an editor's screwup. In
writing Dharma Bums, Kerouac, as he
>
always did, typed it using real names.
Kerouac didnt write "Visions of
>
Cody", for instance, he wrote "Visions of Neal", the title and
names were
>
changed by some editor preparing the book for publication after Kerouac's
>
death. Neal had been dubbed
"Cody" by editors preparing "Dharma Bums",
>
because for some legal reason they couldnt call him Dean Moriarty, and
>
years later I guess they didnt like the sound of "Visions of Dean".
>
>
Every time they did a book, some editor had to go back and change all the
>
names, because publishers were paranoid about lawsuits. Having to deal
>
with editors was probably one reason Kerouac ended up drinking himself to
>
death. This is like a great artist
having some outsider come along after
> a
painting is finished and insisting on changing the colors. The work
>
becomes something less than the author's exact vision.
>
>
This sort of confusion is why I think they should defer to Kerouac's own
>
wishes and come out with a new set of editions of the "DeLouz Legend"
>
books with the real names inserted, so the works look as Kerouac typed
>
them and conceived them. So we can see
the works as Kerouac saw them.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:22:09 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: new from City Lights
Chatted
today with Charles Plymell, 9/14/97. Told him I'd post this to
Beat-L:
====================================
"The
source of power resides in the interstices between one world and
another,
between the known and the unknown, between who we are and who we are
becoming. It is our willingness to put an ear to the
ground that brings the
trembling
of horses from a far distance. We
become like the moving water,
taking
the river bed with us as we go. The
universe loves devoted travelers.
We are her witnesses."
----Janine
Pommy Vega, Tracking the Serpent.
The
book begins with her as a 16 year old meeting Huncke and Allen and moving
in with
Allen's friend Elise.
She's
gotten pretty good reviews except one. In essence the reviewer said she
needed
to get fucked.
cp
==================
diane
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 21:33:33 -0500
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From: Wes Lundburg
<lundburg@TCPNETS.COM>
Subject: for marie countryman
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sorry
listers....
marie,
I've lost your address. Would you
e-mail me directly?
---Wes
lundburg@tcpnets.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:51:13 -0400
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From: "PoOka(the friendly ghost)"
<jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
Subject: kerouac and cliff's notes.
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for
those of you who know about these dreadful yellow/black booklets that
many
adolescent summer readers turn to instead of reading the book,
cliff's
notes has published many cheat summaries of stories including a
recent
one, "the Invisible Man" by Ellison and by other great writers.
What if
somehow "On the Road" was pillaged and turned into a 45 pg
summary
book? Would this encourage young readers to read the whole thing
or just
to skim it in time for september english classes? Either way i
couldn't
begin to fathom the results of taking "naked lunch" or any other
liteary
masterpiece and condence it into a paper-thin booklet.
paranoid and
frightened of
pillaged
literature,
jason.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:03:51 -0400
Reply-To: Greg Elwell <elwellg@voicenet.com>
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From: Greg Elwell
<elwellg@VOICENET.COM>
Subject: Article about Lowell
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Over the weekend I was reading my newspaper's
Travel section, when I =
stumbled
upon an article about Lowell. It
mentions Kerouac and all, and =
about
the Lowell Celebrates Kerouac festival.
I found an on-line =
version
at this address:
http://www.phillynews.com/inquirer/97/Sep/14/travel/LOWEL14.htm
ENJOY!
Greg
Elwell=20
------=_NextPart_000_0000_01BCC162.776CB520
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<!DOCTYPE
HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META
content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META
content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1008.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<P><FONT
color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2> Over the weekend I =
was
reading my=20
newspaper's
Travel section, when I stumbled upon an article about =
Lowell. =20
It
mentions Kerouac and all, and about the Lowell Celebrates Kerouac=20
festival.
I found an on-line version at this address:</FONT></P>
<P><A=20
href=3D"http://www.phillynews.com/inquirer/97/Sep/14/travel/LOWEL14.htm">=
http://www.phillynews.com/inquirer/97/Sep/14/travel/LOWEL14.htm</A>
<P>ENJOY!
<P><FONT
color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>Greg Elwell =
</FONT></P></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0000_01BCC162.776CB520--
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Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:39:48 +0530
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: "Listen all you boards and syndicates...."
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Arthur
Nusbaum wrote:
>
>
Fellow Travelers:
>
>
Lately, I have barely been able to keep up with the fertile threads, let
>
alone respond to them or contribute my own.
Two themes which have
>
particularly caught my attention are the ongoing discussion of sentimentality
>
(originated by Bill Gargan's question to the List as to whether this is a
>
general characteristic of Beat writing), and a more recent sub-theme
>
branching out of the hitchhhiking reminiscences toggled by Yan's asking us
>
whether it is still practiced here.
>
> My
Webster's New (very old and battered after decades of service, actually)
>
Collegiate Dictionary defines "sentimental" as "marked or
governed by
>
feeling, sensibility, or emotional idealism...resulting from feeling rather
>
than reason or thought...having an excess of sentiment or sensibility".
> Applying these definitions to the Beats,
especially William S. Burroughs and
>
Jack Kerouac, with whom I'm most familiar, I can see that they are partly
>
relevant to their works. Certainly,
both WSB and JK are tuned into their
>
feelings and sensibilities, if not altogether governed by them, in their
> lives
as much as their works. In WSB's case,
a lack of direction and
>
ungrounded feelings drifted toward junk "by default" (read his
introduction
> to
JUNKY), which proceeded to govern his movements like those of an insect.
> A wandering sensitivity and alienation
ironically led to the total
>
usurpation of sentiment while he was suspended in the metabolic grip, a mass
> of
"junk-hungry cells" clamoring to "drink from the
needle". His predicament
>
resulted more from feeling than from reason in the sense of sensibilities
>
with nowhere to roost in a senseless society (maybe I've been reading too
>
much Dr. Seuss to my son), but ultimately from neither, his High Junk Period,
> so
to speak, cleared a vacuum and filled it with an ongoing and narrow cycle
> of
need and its relief, "perhaps all pleasure is relief". As for emotional
>
idealism, this is problematic. He had
deep emotions and was an idealist in
>
terms of being a truth-searching visionary, but he was not "governed...by
>
emotional idealism. Anyway, in the
later works, there is an aspect that
>
might be mistaken for sentimentality but which, I think, goes beyond it into
>
intimations of the supernatural, rather than sentimental. In THE WESTERN
>
LANDS, which we were discussing before collectively crashing into the news of
>
his physical death, there is the prose-poetic phrase "Flashes of serene,
>
timeless joy. A joy as old as suffering
and despair". Despite the
>
world-wariness and pessimism that characterize his works, they also record a
>
search to locate the elusive mental and emotional connection to the ethereal,
>
even as the space/time-trapped body is ground down by "...the claims of
the
>
aging, cautious, nagging, frightened flesh". In TWL as in other earlier and
>
later chapters of his "one long work", he probes and discards the
historic
>
layers of cultural/religious/societal mechanisms of distraction and control,
>
where the celestial (or illusory material) reward is offered for towing the
>
line, and tries to get a real glimpse of what we're "here to go"
to. In the
>
case of TWL, it is the cumbersome and preposterous ancient Egyptian dogmas of
>
the afterlife that he gets past, in other cases it is the Mayan Codices, a
>
myriad of control agents in our supposedly enlightened current societal
>
structures and, of course, words themselves and the images they generate.
>
>
WSB and JK got much further past the hurdles than most, but what did they
>
find? The disparity between the body
and the spirit is not a Beat
>
phenomenon, it is the exclusively human phenomenon which they got especially
>
close to with an especially clear vision.
We are really only (self)
>
glorified, slower-motion versions of the leaves that are beginning to turn in
>
their eternal cycle here in Michigan as I write this, the "quivering meat
>
wheel", the process of life, if anything, is endless, not our own
lives. Yet
>
there IS a connection to that larger process through the life of the mind and
>
its emotions. Is this "sentimentality"
or "romanticism" in its stereotypical
>
image of maudlin excess, or an intimation of something just as real as
>
"reality"? I think that the
characterizing of WSB as severely UNsentimental
>
and of JK as overly so which is often found in commentary about them here and
>
elsewhere is deceiving, and misses the dimension of duality that they both
>
perceived and came to terms with. WSB
was impatient to get past the
>
illusions, to "smash the control images", but was not a nihilist, he
> definitely
believed that there IS something past them, read the works and his
>
own quotes (down to those last diary entries) and there's no doubt of it.
> His insistent pursuit of clarity and honesty
might be mistaken for total
>
cynicism. You might say he seeks a
sentimentality beyond "sentimentality" as
> it
has been appropriated by the forces of control in all their manifestations
>
throughout history. And "serene, timeless joy" goes hand in hand with
its
>
equally venerable counterpart, "suffering and despair". The control
>
mechanisms he exposes purport to be the exclusive way to the former ("but
>
through (fill in the blank) can ye get through the gate"), and keep trying
to
>
sever its connection to the latter while threatening its application to
>
maintain control. After all,
"serene, timeless joy" can't be defined or
>
valued without its counterpart. And
JK's image as a euphorically
>
rhapsodizing romanticist and mythologizer of himself, Neal, the very
>
processes of movement and life itself, belies a tragic sensibility that is as
>
much removed from "emotional idealism" as WSB. In ON THE ROAD, he rushes
>
toward a river and all the freedom and movement that it symbolizes for him,
>
only to run right into a fence. Our
minds and emotions can catch the
>
"flashes", but while we're "here" before we "go"
we can't quite get there
>
from here. JK & NC have to keep
moving to get their glimpse of IT, always
>
preceded by restless anticipation and followed by letdown and the renewed
>
buildup of restlessness. One way to
look at it is that he mythologizes,
>
romanticises and sentimentalizes, only to sharpen the contrast between
>
space/time bodily limitations and spiritual (sentimental?) infinity. But
>
that river IS THERE, beyond the fence.
>
>
Well, it never fails- the more I try to focus, the more there seems to focus
>
on, and now there's no time to proceed to the other topic I mentioned at the
>
beginning. I must stop, or jump out of
the moving vehicle, or whatever.
> Since there's no way to conclude, here's a
great quote that I think relates
> to
"everything and nothing", as JK would say, and to the struggle to
>
reconcile the body and the spirit.
>
>
"My dear, I'm working on the most marvelous invention...a boy who
disappears
> as
soon as you come leaving a smell of burning leaves and a sound effect of
>
distant train whistles."
>
-WSB, NAKED LUNCH, pg. 111
>
>
Regards,
>
>
Arthur
A
couple of definitions from my "The New Webster Dictionary and Complete
Vest-Pocket
Library ... 45,800 words..." Copyright 1893, 1894 purchased
for a
buck at The Source Bookstore in Davenport Iowa back around 1993 or
1994.
Miraculous.
"Supernatural"
Invention. Invent.
"find out; devise; frame; forge."
Sentimentality. "Affectedly Tender."
Affect. "Influence. Assume."
Tender. "to offer; sensitive, kind;
delicate."
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:17:56 +0530
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: "Listen all you boards and
syndicates...."
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Diane
Carter wrote:
>
>
I'm not sure that Kerouac's sentimentality sharpens the contrast between
>
"space/time/body and infinity";
Kerouac's
examination of these things is very different than Burroughs
because
JK looks at these through the prism of his physical experiences
while
Burroughs through experiencing the dark humour of imagination. To
limit
the idea of experience (and i'm not sure you're doing this) to the
"REAL"
world is a very very limiting perception.
Burroughs being born
into a
different chemistry was sensitive to the imagination and keen to
every
intricacy therein in the same way as Kerouac was sensitive to the
imagination
in the physically visible.
dbr
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:00:41 -0700
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From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: More Berthold Brecht: The Smoke Out of This Planet.
Au_er diesem Stern (bertolt
brecht)
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-----Original
Message-----
From:
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date:
Sunday, September 14, 1997 4:47 AM
> Ok
I received a backchanell challenge. What poetic license?
Here is
what I believe a more literal translation of Der Rauch would be:
The
Smoke
The
small house under tress by the lake
>From
roof rises smoke
He felt
How
bereft of trust (untrustworthy) then
became
House,
trees and lake
Original German:
> Der Rauch
>
> Das kleine Haus unter Bdumen am See.
> Vom Dach steigt Rauch.
> Fehlte er
> Wie trostlos dann wdren
> Haus, Bdumen und See.
> -- BERTOLT BRECHT
>
Rinaldo's
translation:
>The
small house among to the trees on the lake.
>From
the roof climbs the smoke.
>If
there is not smoke
>house,
trees and lake would be dismal.
>.-
>Under
the trees by the lake is not quite the same as among the trees on the
lake.
>
There is nothing that says "if there is not smoke" in the original
>
The implication of untrustworthy is not quite the same as dismal.
I do
not cherish making these corrections (?)
and I would be the first one
to
agree that it may be trifling. If we don't need such nitpicking on the
list, I
will gladly stop it. But,, here I go
correcting and I have left
out
" I thought" from the first line of "Outside of this star"
poem , and
even
misspelled Brecht's name. I am no one to point fingers, but I do
believe
my corrections are accurate, and a challenge is a challenge. I love
all
your contributions to the list Rinaldo. Bless you.
leon
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:38:41 +0000
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Comments: Authenticated sender is
<sk312@pophost.city.ac.uk>
From: Daniel Fascione <m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: subscription - OFF
Aplogies
for posting this to the whole of the list, but could someone
send me
deatils of how to subscribe to this list.
Thanks
in advanced
Daniel
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 05:25:07 -0400
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From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: hitchhiking in New Hampshire
The
last hitchhiker I picked up was Soloman Paul Hobbes. He told me how he
was
hitchhiking in New Hampshire one night and set up his sleeping bag at
what he
thought was a deserted house. In the middle of the night, he gets an
eerie
feeling, looks out from under sleeping bag and sees a mountain lion. He
starts
staring the mountain lion down, while slowly gathering his stuff. The
mountain
lion just stared back. Soloman slowly backed down the road
backwards,
eyeing the mountain lion, with his gathered stuff in his arms
until
the mountain lion was out of sight. He walked down the road and came to
an
abandoned old farmhouse, and he slowly made his way in. On the second
floor
he found an old bed, and he knew that this was where the mountain lion
slept.
So he set up his sleeping bag and slept there, surrounded by old tin
cans
that he set up as a barrier to warn him in case the mountain lion came
back in
while he was still sleeping.
I
dropped Soloman off in San Anselmo, not far from San Quentin, and he gave
me a
pen. It was a nice pen.
He also
said that Calvin and Hobbs was named after him.
so it
goes, Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 06:00:13 -0400
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From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: kerouac and cliff's notes.
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At
10:51 PM 9/14/97 -0400, you wrote:
>for
those of you who know about these dreadful yellow/black booklets that
>many
adolescent summer readers turn to instead of reading the book,
>cliff's
notes has published many cheat summaries of stories including a
>recent
one, "the Invisible Man" by Ellison and by other great writers.
>What
if somehow "On the Road" was pillaged and turned into a 45 pg
>summary
book? Would this encourage young readers to read the whole thing
>or
just to skim it in time for september english classes? Either way i
>couldn't
begin to fathom the results of taking "naked lunch" or any other
>liteary
masterpiece and condence it into a paper-thin booklet.
> paranoid and
frightened of
> pillaged
literature,
>
jason.
>
>
If otr
is taught, it is certainly cliff-noted, isn't it. The only
way it
wouldn't be is if the Kerouac estate said no, or is that
true? Don't really know myself.
Mike
Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 07:06:50 -0400
Reply-To: cosmicat@erols.com
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From: cosmicat@EROLS.COM
Subject: Re: maya gorton?
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Derek
A. Beaulieu wrote:
>
>
hey there beat-l'ers
>
does anyone out there have maya's address as i would like to get in touch
>
with her but i have lost her address. thanks a bundle
>
yrs
>
derek
maya
gorton: marioka7@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 08:42:34 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: howdy
just
wanted to say hi and please write to me....i'm not re-subscribed so
don't
post me a message on the list but write to me personally. hope you're
all
well. I saw Jim Caroll read day before yerster. It was invigorating.
He's a great storyteller. know of any of his stuff on the web anyone?
---------maya
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:48:28 +0200
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: More Berthold Brecht
In-Reply-To: <9709142201.aa14683@mail.cruzio.com>
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Leon,
i'm
sure yr knowing of german language is the best,
yr translation helped to open my eyes,
(mine
is only to the very very lowest level, having some
relatives
emigrates in germany and suisse, (others in Canada),
but
this isn't a matter that justify to translate Bertolt Brecht.)
i've
tempted to react to brecht's poems as Zen Poetry
_koan_
of
course, i'm always have been a great admirer
of
brecht's theatre & poetry (i.e. Beggar's Opera collaboration
with
Kurt Weill) despite his political choice, brecht is
a
valuable man, his approach to chinese lit is laudable,
in the
early 70's i was an avid reader for brecht's works,
but
unlike the Beats i read brecht in translation and a bit
to
following the german language,
now u
are right, that Stern is "Star" and not "Planet",
the
word "au_er" is "ausser" meaning the _=ss as in
"Strasse",
the
word "verw|stet" is |=u: "u" umlau
in the
poem Der Rauch
the
word "Bdumen" the "d" is "a" umlau
the
same for "Bduame" and "wdren"
what i
was surprised was that the listserv has not recognized
the
german alphabet 'cuz i've post correctly the character but
tha
lserver transform them in anonymous character, if this
happen
to language with characters not english-like (i.e.
german,
spanish, french) i have surprised again. with italian
the
snag is smaller or non-existent 'cuz the stressed character
are
easily transform as "a acute or a grave" a', ... etc, if
a
chinese or japanese wish to post in his native language there's
impossible,
i'm afraid,
the
bertolt brecht's post crossed in my mind as unconscious
i
apologies,
cari
saluti a tutti da
Rinaldo.
At
22.00 14/09/97 -0700, Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM> wrote:
>-----Original
Message-----
>From:
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
>To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Date:
Sunday, September 14, 1997 4:47 AM
>
>>
Ok I received a backchanell challenge. What poetic license?
>Here
is what I believe a more literal translation of Der Rauch would be:
>
>The
Smoke
>
>The
small house under tress by the lake
>>From
roof rises smoke
>He
felt
>How
bereft of trust (untrustworthy) then
became
>House,
trees and lake
>
>
>
Original German:
>
>> Der Rauch
>>
>> Das kleine Haus unter Bdumen am See.
>> Vom Dach steigt Rauch.
>> Fehlte er
>> Wie trostlos dann wdren
>> Haus, Bdumen und See.
>> -- BERTOLT BRECHT
>>
>
>Rinaldo's
translation:
>
>>The
small house among to the trees on the lake.
>>From
the roof climbs the smoke.
>>If
there is not smoke
>>house,
trees and lake would be dismal.
>>.-
>>Under
the trees by the lake is not quite the same as among the trees on the
>lake.
>>
There is nothing that says "if there is not smoke" in the original
>>
The implication of untrustworthy is not quite the same as dismal.
>
>I
do not cherish making these corrections (?)
and I would be the first one
>to
agree that it may be trifling. If we don't need such nitpicking on the
>list,
I will gladly stop it. But,, here I go
correcting and I have left
>out
" I thought" from the first line of "Outside of this star"
poem , and
>even
misspelled Brecht's name. I am no one to point fingers, but I do
>believe
my corrections are accurate, and a challenge is a challenge. I love
>all
your contributions to the list Rinaldo. Bless you.
>
>leon
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:19:07 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: kerouac and cliff's notes.
In-Reply-To: Message of Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:51:13 -0400
from
<jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
It has
been -- Monarch notes includes it in their Beat writers pamphlet. It ma
y be
long out of print. Frankly, I'm surprised
that there isn't a Cliff Notes
version.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:03:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: "Listen all you boards and
syndicates...."
In-Reply-To:
<970913171957_-1933747394@emout04.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version:
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On Sat,
13 Sep 1997, Arthur Nusbaum wrote:
>
relevant to their works. Certainly,
both WSB and JK are tuned into their
>
feelings and sensibilities, if not altogether governed by them, in their
>
lives as much as their works. In WSB's
case, a lack of direction and
>
ungrounded feelings drifted toward junk "by default" (read his
introduction
> to
JUNKY), which proceeded to govern his movements like those of an insect.
> A wandering sensitivity and alienation
ironically led to the total
>
usurpation of sentiment while he was suspended in the metabolic grip, a mass
> of
"junk-hungry cells" clamoring to "drink from the needle".
In
terms of motivation, rather than just "lack of direction and
ungrounded
feelings", you have to add a fierce curiousity and a scientific
approach
to experimentation in all aspects of life. Burroughs has referred
to his
work as "pure science", and when faced with a self-imposed
question,
he was fond of Korzybski's line "I don't know, let's find out."
His
search for Yage is a perfect example of how Burroughs was extremely
directed
and motivated by the need to experiment. Assigning clear-cut
motives
and causes for people's actions is a dubious undertaking, but I
think
there are more factors in Burroughs' case that need to be
considered.
In no
way could the Burroughs of the cut-up trilogy be called sentimental,
since
all feelings were subsumed or controlled by the need/fix dichotomy
of junk
(or control structures operating like junk, as in the Love Con).
You're
bang on there Arthur, but here I think you go astray:
> As for emotional
>
idealism, this is problematic. He had
deep emotions and was an idealist in
>
terms of being a truth-searching visionary, but he was not "governed...by
>
emotion.
I have
a problem with the term "truth-searching visionary" when applied to
Burroughs,
who espoused as a dictum above all others Hassan I Sabbah's
"Nothing
is True. Everything is Permitted." An ideal, singular "truth" was
foreign
to Burroughs' understanding of the world, as it smacks of the
Right
Virus (and all the attendant evil pinch-faced decent church-going
women).
His belief in a polytheistic universe of many Gods is a testament
to his
escape from the religious-based logocentrism that characterizes so
much of
Western thought.
Burroughs
was more of a freedom-fighting visionary in his efforts to
escape
Control.
>
WSB and JK got much further past the hurdles than most, but what did they
>
find? The disparity between the body
and the spirit is not a Beat
>
phenomenon, it is the exclusively human phenomenon which they got especially
>
close to with an especially clear vision.
Hmm,
Burroughs (in the cut-up trilogy anyway) had an extreme revulsion for
the
body that is singular in Western literature, and in that way he tows
the
Christian orthodox line. The setting up of a mind/body and
emotion/intellect
dichotomy is one of the cornerstones of Western
philosophy,
present from Plato to Descartes and beyond. Whether this is an
"exclusively
human phenomenon" depends entirely on whether you believe it.
In
opposition to that view, I refer you to Blake-- so beloved of
Ginsberg--
who won't accept the Western separation of mind and
body,
and the body's attendant degradation.
"Prisons
are built with stones of Law, Brothels with bricks of Religion."
William
Blake
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:29:50 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jonathan Pickle
<jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Just
got back from a couple days in the woods reading Some of the Dharma -
Almost,
if not more, as artistic as VOC.
Was
reading article last night about Kerouac, saying he died a racist. Can
anyone
tell me anything about this?
-Jon
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:51:03 -0400
Reply-To: mike@buchenroth.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael L. Buchenroth"
<mike@BUCHENROTH.COM>
Organization:
Buchenroth Publishing Co
Subject: Literature Online or consciousness
evolution tax?
Comments:
To: webmaster@chadwyck.com
Comments:
cc: cveditions@aol.com
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
8bit
Dear
Chadwyck-Healey Ltd Webmaster:
Why
would I or anyone else pay for access to your literary database when
practically
everything you store exists elsewhere in public domain free?
Your
site taxes the spirit of the web; defrauds the human species . . .
***
The
evolution of human consciousness, if up to institutions such as
Chadwyck-Healey
Ltd, would begin immediately following birth with an
electrode
implantation into each new-born human brain stem connected via
infra
red to a meter not much different than an electric usage meter
power
companies now employ on the side of houses to measure and bill
customer
electricity usage! Only your meter would measure and charge
thought,
for learning each new declamation; every CNS protoplasmic
propagation,
aha potassium reduction the wheel spins 10-cents faster;
sodium
rushing in there location cell AX2956892919 degrees,
BY2956891219568
degrees, CZ34589, the meter trips signaling Dave's
Culligan
on Main Street that humanoid Dave2001xyz99 needs electrolyte
home
delivery (must keep protoplasmic harmony, electrolytic super
efficiency,
the business plans calls for it) the power grid network'd
measures
blip blip, somewhere a first grader for first time speaks
"Alice
meets Jip. See Jip run? Run Jip run." Elsewhere the grid hums,
Chuckie
learns a pun.
***
"Ouch,
I burnt myself!" thinks the baby, "That flame means pain. Do not
touch
from now on. OK?"
***
Kabing,
Chadwyck-Healey Ltd's thought meter accrues $2.99 for
significant
life-preserving lesson. Around universities and public
education
facilities huge power grid networked measuring stations would
process
abundantly.
***
It was
a dark and stormy night, as Chuckie thinks, (sentence cost=$9.95)
"Who'll
stop the acid rain, (sentence/question cost=$4.95)
The
chadwyck clouds beat down upon us? ($1.95)
Oh
well, I'll continue reading,
'Steal
This Book' (5th edition),
Introduction
to Chapter Two,
Chadwyck-Healey
Thought Meter Removal,
'Steal
This Book' is, in a way, a manual of survival in the prison that
is
Chadwyck-Healey's Amerika. It preaches jailbreak. It shows you where
and
exactly how to place the dynamite that will destroy the walls. The
first
section- SURVIVE!-lays out a program for the most important
lesson-get
rid of that damn meter! This action separates revolutionaries
from
outlaws . . .
***
Ah-ooooo-ga!!!
Ah-ooooo-ga!!!
***
Charge
all funds left in e-wallet, then apprehend,
Charge
all funds left in e-wallet, then apprehend,
then
apprehend
apprehend
. . .
(dots
will echo)
. . .
***
Reports, speeches,
papers, essays, addresses,
$1.95 per occurrence;
Analyses, themes,
lectures, discourses, orations
$2.95 each;
Homilies, diatribes,
harangues, philippics, allocutions,
verbalizations, words,
tongues $.99;
Declamations
~special today only~ 25-cents;
Morals, maxims,
adages $5.99 first occurrence, $1.99 thereafter;
Cautions, admonitions, warnings, deterrents, . .
.
Oxymoron
recognition $8.99
***
Evolution
of consciousness will occur only when the Chadwyck-Healey
consortium
schemes to not only charge for thought,
but to
sell it as well,
(tax
the tax)
hell!
2+2=$5.00,
Chadwyck-Healey
network'd vendors on steps sell,
Thought
at each educational pillar!
Good
luck in your space~time~string.
Ah,
your meter just dinged.
***
--
Michael
L. Buchenroth
Buchenroth
Publishing Company
www.buchenroth.com
mike@buchenroth.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 13:33:56 -0500
Reply-To: Matthew S Sackmann
<msackma@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matthew S Sackmann <msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Visions of America
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.32.19970911193636.0069ede4@maila.wm.edu>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu,
11 Sep 1997, Jonathan Pickle wrote:
> At
04:43 PM 9/11/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, chenxiao wrote:
>
>
>
>> Folks over there, is hitchhiking still easy thing in this continent as
> in
the
>
>> OTR time?
>
>>
>
>> Hitchhike to America, hitchhike to moon;
>
>> with bag empty, with hair long.
>
>>
>
>> ciao
>
>> yan
>
>>
>
>I'm afraid not, Yan. It's illegal
in many places. Most depressing thing
>
>in the world is to see a road sign with a thumb up held with a big red
>
>slash across it. and you read or
hear about people getting killed, raped
>
>. . . all the time . I was lucky
enough to hitch 1600 miles down the
>
>Alaskan-Highway last year, through Canada.
It was fairly easy for us.
>
>But Canada and Alaska are a lot different than the rest of the U.S.
>
>
>
>i like your little poem. reminds me
of Jack's "Visions of America."
>
>
>
>-matt
>
>
>
>
>
Matt - Ive been searching for "Visions of America" for two years and
cant
>
seem to find it except through this internet bookdealer who wants 125
>
dollars for it which of course I don't have.
Do you know of a way of how I
>
could get it cheeper?
>
>
>
-Jon
>
Hmmm...I
may have misled you Jon. I was talking
about a little poem that
starts
a essay in Lonesome Traveler. Goes
something like this.
Visions
of America
All
that hitchhiking
All
that [oh man, my memory is bad, what
does he say here?]
All
that coming back
to America
The
exact quote is not neccessary. It's
nice sometimes, but it is not
neccessary. Sorry i led you astray. I've heard of the Visions of America
that
you speak of, but little other than that.
Maybe some other
listmembers
would be kind enough to fill us in.
And
coming down from a high i opened up Some of the Dharma to a random
page,
and this is what i read:
"God
is a warm idea for the cool void."
Makes
perfect sense, doesn't it?
-matt
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:30:13 +0000
Reply-To: randyr@southeast.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is
<randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>
From: randy royal
<randyr@MAILHUB.JAXNET.COM>
Subject: Re: hitchhiking in New Hampshire
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-type:
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Content-transfer-encoding:
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nice
story.
> He
also said that Calvin and Hobbs was named after him.
tell
him he was named after a sixteen(?) hundred philospher
> so
it goes, Attila
>
randy
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:57:53 -0400
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: kerouac and cliff's notes.
Reply
to message from jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU of Sun, 14 Sep
>
>for
those of you who know about these dreadful yellow/black booklets that
>many
adolescent summer readers turn to instead of reading the book,
>cliff's
notes has published many cheat summaries of stories including a
>recent
one, "the Invisible Man" by Ellison and by other great writers.
>What
if somehow "On the Road" was pillaged and turned into a 45 pg
>summary
book? Would this encourage young readers to read the whole thing
>or
just to skim it in time for september english classes? Either way i
>couldn't
begin to fathom the results of taking "naked lunch" or any other
>liteary
masterpiece and condence it into a paper-thin booklet.
> paranoid and
frightened of
> pillaged
literature,
>
jason.
"A
NOTE TO THE READER: THESE NOTES ARE NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR THE TEXT ITSELF
OR FOR
THE CLASSROOM DISCUSSION OF THE TEXT, AND STUDENTS WHO ATTEMPT TO
USE
THEM IN THIS WAY ARE DENYING THEMSELVES THE VERY EDUCATION THAT THEY
ARE
PRESUMABLY GIVING THEIR MOST VITAL YEARS TO ACHIEVE."
This is
the "surgeon general's warning" (as i like to term it) found in the
beginning
of Cliffs Notes. I thought it was so
funny that it was my sig
file
for about a month. if it hadn't been
for cliffs notes, i would not
have
survived my 18th century lit course.
this was partly because we found
the
material so dull & uninspiring, the professor didn't even want to teach
it. But I digress. IN my opinion, as a current high school student
teacher
(meaning I don't yet have my certification), if OTR ever becomes
high
school canon lit, there will be Cliffs Notes.
because there always
will be
someone who really doesn't want to read it after all & looks for
the
short cut. The thing about teaching
kids is that for all the kids who
want to
learn, there are also going to be kids who don't. Or who don't
want to
learn some of the things we want to teach them. Young people who
discover
OTR & the other Beats, I feel, will keep doing it the same way
they
always have...stumbling across them some way or another, Cliffs Notes
or no
Cliffs Notes. Chances are that if the
kid opts for the Cliffs Notes
rather
than the real deal, he/she wasn't going to ever read the book unless
made
to. My favorite memory: when i was in high
school, we were reading
the
great gatsby. most of our books had
this blue cover with a pair of
eyes on
it. Ed, who was a bright kid & is
currently in law school, had a
yellow
& black striped edition. Like I
said, he was bright, but
literature
wasn't his thing.
Diane.
(H)
--
I
should have loved a thunderbird instead. --Sylvia Plath
Diane
M. Homza
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:49:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jonathan Pickle
<jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>
Subject: Re: Visions of America
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
01:33 PM 9/15/97 -0500, Matt Sackmann wrote:
>
>And
coming down from a high i opened up Some of the Dharma to a random
>page,
and this is what i read:
>
>"God
is a warm idea for the cool void."
>
>Makes
perfect sense, doesn't it?
>-matt
>
Yes,
yes, yes. I read it too. It was all so perfect. Am going to reread
it once
I get a break and can really understand it as it relates to my life
as
meaning.
I read
something that Tricycle serialized Wake Up - Jack's biography of the
Buddha. Is there anyway anyone can get a hold of
that. On the net or
something.
"And any time you need
me
Call
I'll be at the other
end
Waiting
at the final hall" JK - 80th Chorus, San Francisco
Blues
-Jon
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:20:51 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: der doc
<der_doc@ROCKETMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Adam J Muszkiewicz disciplinary
hearing
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
===
visit
my web site, The Beat(en) Regeneration
(http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6131)
for
info on the Beat, Beatnik and Neo-Beat subcultures
---Antoine
Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET> wrote:
> To:
Lieutenant Adam J Muszkiewicz, M.D. A.K.A. "der doc"
First
of all it's PhD not M.D.
> This is to inform you Officer
Muszkiewicz that in my position
>
responsible for discipline on the Beat Liat, I am removing your Beat
>
priveleges. Until further notiice you cannot refer to yourself as
"Beat"
nor
>
can you make any claims to ""beatness". In the course of time
you
will
come
> to
appreciate that ANYONE can be beat and you will regret being
excluded.
In all
of my posts, THAT is precisely the message that I attempt to
get
across: ANYONE might be Beat and there
is no point in attempting
to
enumerate the masses that may or may not be BEAT. Besides, that
sort of
thing really doesn't go along with "beat-ness," now does it?
I mean
really, would Kerouac or Ginsberg or anyone have really just
made a
list
of
Beats or anything of the sort? Think
about what you're saying,
man! My own personal message about Beat is, as I
have said: Beats are
Beat is
Beat. You know they know we know. Knowing is enough.
very confused,
Adam J Muszkiewicz
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by
RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 23:42:00 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dufour <dufour@ULISSE.IT>
Subject: Etoy
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Please,
help me to understand this !
www.etoy.com
Ciao !
Francesco
(...a sort of confused beat)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 15:43:56 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.32.19970915112950.0068b080@maila.wm.edu>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
jon
where
do you read this? (not that this would be the first tiome ive heard
it, but
just curious). article? book? etc?
yrs
derek
On Mon,
15 Sep 1997, Jonathan Pickle wrote:
>
>
Just got back from a couple days in the woods reading Some of the Dharma -
>
Almost, if not more, as artistic as VOC.
>
>
Was reading article last night about Kerouac, saying he died a racist. Can
>
anyone tell me anything about this?
>
> -Jon
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 15:47:20 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: kerouac on william f. buckley?
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
does
anyone out there have a copy (VHS) or a transcription (even better)
of
kerouac's appearance on william f. buckley's "firing line"? i would
really
appreciate any help you all might be able to provide. (curious abt
kerouac's
comments concerning links b/t beats and hippies as well as
his
comments abt ginsberg and gays, etc - and ive heard A
LOT abt
this particular interview and would like to check it out myself)
THANKS
ya'll
yrs
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:15:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MARK NIGON
<Mark_Nigon@CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM>
Subject: kerouac on william f. buckley? -Reply
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain
Hi
Derek,
Some of
the interview is used in the documentary "What Happened to
Kerouc"
by Lewis MacAdams and Richard Lerner.
The blurbs used in this
doumentary
will answer the questions you've asked about though. Sorry,
I can't
help you with locating a transcript.
-mark
nigon
mark_nigon@mail.campbell-mithun.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
"Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA> 09/15/97
04:47pm
>>>
does
anyone out there have a copy (VHS) or a transcription (even better)
of
kerouac's appearance on william f. buckley's "firing line"? i would
really
appreciate any help you all might be able to provide. (curious
abt
kerouac's
comments concerning links b/t beats and hippies as well as
his
comments abt ginsberg and gays, etc - and ive heard A
LOT abt
this particular interview and would like to check it out myself)
THANKS
ya'll
yrs
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:30:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jonathan Pickle
<jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
03:43 PM 9/15/97 -0600, Derek wrote:
>jon
>where
do you read this? (not that this would be the first tiome ive heard
>it,
but just curious). article? book? etc?
>yrs
>derek
>
>On
Mon, 15 Sep 1997, Jonathan Pickle wrote:
>
>>
>>
Just got back from a couple days in the woods reading Some of the Dharma -
>>
Almost, if not more, as artistic as VOC.
>>
>>
Was reading article last night about Kerouac, saying he died a racist. Can
>>
anyone tell me anything about this?
>>
>> -Jon
>>
>
Read it
partly from an editorial in the Austin American-Statesman (Austin,
Texas)
around the time when WSB died. The
author referred to an article in
Esquire
around the time of JK's death. I have
heard it someplace else, but
can't
remember.
-Jon
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:43:15 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jonathan or Jennifer
<jt712@NETPATH.NET>
Subject: A funny thing happened the other day..
Mime-Version:
1.0
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I was
in Barnes and Noble bookstore, browsing through
the
Jack Kerouac section, when this lady in her 40's-50's
and her
husband walked by. she pointed right at one
of
Kerouac's books and said in a loud voice to her
husband:
"Know that guy? He was a hippie-beatnik."
then
she left. i almost burst out laughing. obviously,
this
woman knows nothing about Kerouac. he was totally
against
the hippies! Just thought i might share that
with
everyone.
-Jennifer
-jt712@netpath.net
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:46:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jonathan or Jennifer
<jt712@NETPATH.NET>
Subject: Re: howdy
In-Reply-To:
<970915084232_-1063756835@emout01.mail.aol.com>
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At
08:42 AM 9/15/97 -0400, you wrote:
>just
wanted to say hi and please write to me....i'm not re-subscribed so
>don't
post me a message on the list but write to me personally. hope you're
>all
well. I saw Jim Caroll read day before yerster. It was invigorating.
>
He's a great storyteller. know of any
of his stuff on the web anyone?
>
>---------maya
>
I, too,
am a huge fan of Jim Carroll. I recommend getting
the
book "Fear of Dreaming: Selected Poems of Jim Carroll," and here's
the
best
page so far I've found
about
him:
http://home.forbin.com/~laverne/carroll/carroll.html
-Jennifer
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:57:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MATT HANNAN
<MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>
Subject: knowing the lingo (was: A funny thing
happened...)
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<snip>
husband: "Know that guy? He was a
hippie-beatnik."<snap>
A question for those of you that gathered
in the Haight, Goa, the
Village, attended Woodstock, etc. all
those years ago. I know that the
phrase beatnik was/is derogatory, is the term hippie also, or
was it
acceptable at the time?
While I'm on the subject, did anyone on
the list ever travel to Goa?
I'd like to chat with you backchannel if
you did.
love and lilies,
matt h.
mhannan@usoc.org
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 19:08:05 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: knowing the lingo (was: A funny
thing happened...)
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:57:05 -0400
from
<MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>
Hippie
was cool and acceptable, though I'm not sure most hippies referred to th
emselves
as such. Yippies had a lot of fun with
it. Lots of people said "Yea,
man I'm hip." back in the late 1960s and
early 70s.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:15:54 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: knowing the lingo (was: A funny
thing happened...)
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At
04:57 PM 9/15/97 -0400, you wrote:
> While I'm on the subject, did anyone on
the list ever travel to Goa?
> I'd like to chat with you backchannel if
you did.
What is
Goa?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 19:50:18 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: kerouac and cliff's notes.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.91.970914224538.20808A-100000@turbo.kean.edu>
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On Sun,
14 Sep 1997, PoOka(the friendly ghost) wrote:
>
What if somehow "On the Road" was pillaged and turned into a 45 pg
>
summary book? Would this encourage young readers to read the whole thing
> or
just to skim it in time for september english classes? Either way i
>
couldn't begin to fathom the results of taking "naked lunch" or any
other
I think
both Kerouac and Bill Burroughs would turn over in their graves
at the
thought of their works being cliff note'd.
cliff notes work fine
for
regular works, where the stories are straightforward and not much is
lost in
the distillation. But the idea of doing
a cliff notes of "On the
Road"
or "Naked Lunch" is absurd. I
personally couldnt imagine being the
cliffs
notes editor assigned to do "Naked Lunch" I dont think it could
be
done. It just isnt possible do distill
these works into a few words
or
sentences.
Richard
W.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 19:54:04 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: kerouac and cliff's notes.
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.16.19970915045343.1b67be54@mail.wi.centuryinter.net>
MIME-Version:
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>
>
> If
otr is taught, it is certainly cliff-noted, isn't it. The only
>
way it wouldn't be is if the Kerouac estate said no, or is that
>
true? Don't really know myself.
>
>
Mike Rice
>
There
is no doubt, none, in my mind, that if Kerouac had known of Cliff
Notes
when he was alive, he would have written specific instructions to
never
give permission for any of his works, except
*maybe* Town and the
City,
to be cliff noted.
Kerouac
saw himself as a poet, literary jazz musician, and in jazz you
dont
distill notes, or attempt to explain jazz in anything less than the
full
form. You cant explain a Charlie Parker
record by only listening to
a few
notes. Some things cant be explained
that simply.
RJW
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:54:36 +0900
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Timothy Hoffman <timothy@GOL.COM>
Subject: Re: kerouac and cliff's notes.
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.OSF.3.91.970914224538.20808A-100000@turbo.kean.edu>
Mime-Version:
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A
SUBJECT search at Amazon Books produced a reference to a MAX NOTES
treatment
of On the Road (however, a negative find on Naked Lunch). Notes
for OTR
are there for the picking. Now . . . as
to whether or not anyone
would
want to read it, that's a different question. Choosing between the
two's
like choosing between eating a real peach and a Xerox of a peach.
:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::
Timothy
Hoffman
Komaki
English Teaching Center
timothy@gol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:59:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jonathan Pickle
<jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>
Subject: Re: A funny thing happened the other
day..
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At
06:43 PM 9/15/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I
was in Barnes and Noble bookstore, browsing through
>the
Jack Kerouac section, when this lady in her 40's-50's
>and
her husband walked by. she pointed right at one
>of
Kerouac's books and said in a loud voice to her
>husband:
"Know that guy? He was a hippie-beatnik."
>then
she left. i almost burst out laughing. obviously,
>this
woman knows nothing about Kerouac. he was totally
>against
the hippies! Just thought i might share that
>with
everyone.
>
>-Jennifer
>-jt712@netpath.net
>
I think
by the time the hippies came around, Jack really wasn't into
being
against anything. He had slipped so far
into his depression that
it
didn't make much difference to him. He
wasn't into people like the
Merry
Pranksters and the hippies, he lived his own way, I don't think he
was
really <underline>against</underline> anything. That my humble
opinion
-Jon
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 19:50:28 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: knowing the lingo (was: A funny
thing happened...)
MIME-Version:
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>
> A question for those of you that
gathered in the Haight, Goa, the
> Village, attended Woodstock, etc. all
those years ago. I know that the
> phrase beatnik was/is derogatory, is the
term hippie also, or was it
> acceptable at the time?
>
Of
course by the time the mass media had tracked it to Woodstock, et.
al. it
was over anyway except for financially exploiting the rock and
roll
and t-shirts. I never heard anyone
refer to his or her self as a
hippie
except sarcastically.
J.
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:38:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marlene Giraud <M84M79@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: kerouac and cliff's notes.
I'm not
too sure about the cliff's notes, i think having cf's would help and
hinder
students while reading otr. by the way, my old english teacher has
decided
to incoorperate otr and some beat poetry into his class this year. he
asked
me for some suggestions on themes,etc..., now i'm asking for some input
from
the list. What poems do you suggest for a highschool english 3 class?
What
points would you like acknowledged from otr?
--Marlene
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 23:22:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jonathan Pickle
<jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>
Subject: Re: kerouac and cliff's notes.
Mime-Version:
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At
10:38 PM 9/15/97 -0400, Marlene wrote:
>I'm
not too sure about the cliff's notes, i think having cf's would help and
>hinder
students while reading otr. by the way, my old english teacher has
>decided
to incoorperate otr and some beat poetry into his class this year. he
>asked
me for some suggestions on themes,etc..., now i'm asking for some input
>from
the list. What poems do you suggest for a highschool english 3 class?
>What
points would you like acknowledged from otr?
>
--Marlene
>
For a
couple of years now I have gone around to my friends who have
discovered
Jack Kerouac and the Beat Generation after me and sat with them
for
upwards of 50+ hours talking about On the Road and other Kerouac
subjects. I have a list I am trying to clean up to give to a teacher back
home:
if you want I can email it to you. It
will be pretty long once I am
finished. But in the medium I like to emphasize the
recurring themes of
the
shroud, ie shrouded figures, the cowboy fascination, facades - things
constantly
are alluded to being fake from the elluding dress of some one to
the
fakeness of a joint. Also the
repitition of the word 'crossroads'.
Thse
are a few of the questions I give out.
I have much more chapter
specific
ones i like to use for when I have more time.
As for
poetry: I like to use
"How
to Meditate"
"My
Views on Religion"
"Skid
Row Wine"
**"Tales
of the Buddhas of Old"
Always
throw in some Haikus
-Jon
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:36:44 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Feng Yan
<xbchen@SUN.NANKAI.EDU.CN>
Subject: Re: kerouac on william f. buckley?
-Reply
In-Reply-To: <s41d6c0b.072@campbell-mithun.com>
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On Mon,
15 Sep 1997, MARK NIGON wrote:
> Hi
Derek,
>
>
Some of the interview is used in the documentary "What Happened to
>
Kerouc" by Lewis MacAdams and Richard Lerner. The blurbs used in this
>
doumentary will answer the questions you've asked about though. Sorry,
> I
can't help you with locating a transcript.
>
>
-mark nigon
>
>
mark_nigon@mail.campbell-mithun.com
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>>> "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA> 09/15/97
>
04:47pm >>>
>
does anyone out there have a copy (VHS) or a transcription (even better)
> of
kerouac's appearance on william f. buckley's "firing line"? i would
>
really appreciate any help you all might be able to provide. (curious
>
abt
>
kerouac's comments concerning links b/t beats and hippies as well as
>
his comments abt ginsberg and gays, etc - and ive heard A
>
LOT abt this particular interview and would like to check it out myself)
>
THANKS ya'll
>
yrs
>
derek
>
Mark,
Derek and others,
I am
also interested in Kerouac's comments. Anyone could post some here?
And
your opinion?
Ciao
Yan
We
share the Moon.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:38:00 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Feng Yan <xbchen@SUN.NANKAI.EDU.CN>
Subject: Re: A funny thing happened the other
day..
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.2.32.19970915184315.00688df8@server1.netpath.net>
MIME-Version:
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On Mon,
15 Sep 1997, Jonathan or Jennifer wrote:
> I
was in Barnes and Noble bookstore, browsing through
>
the Jack Kerouac section, when this lady in her 40's-50's
>
and her husband walked by. she pointed right at one
> of
Kerouac's books and said in a loud voice to her
>
husband: "Know that guy? He was a hippie-beatnik."
>
then she left. i almost burst out laughing. obviously,
>
this woman knows nothing about Kerouac. he was totally
>
against the hippies! Just thought i might share that
>
with everyone.
>
>
-Jennifer
>
-jt712@netpath.net
>
What
had Kerouac said against hippies?
Yan
We
share the Moon.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 03:07:33 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Beat Trees
Hello,
In case
anybody is following Headwaters forest stuff, there was a rally this
sunday
in Northern California (Stafford), and there was 400 cops there in
riot
gear, ready to arrest the environmentalists. OK, alot of the
environmentalists
are the granola type, but the cops has
gas masks on their
belts,
batons in hands, and face shields. What the hell are we fighting for.
I
thought this stuff went out in the 60s.
Headwaters
Forest - the last remaining old growth forest, Redwood trees 500
to
2,000 years old, that are privately owned. And owned by Mr. Hurwitz
(Maxxam
corporation/Pacific Lumber) who is tying to get ransom money for it
from
the government and taxpayers in the amount of $380 million dollars USA,
otherwise
the forest, nature, animals, rivers, all go. It's 10:00 pm. Do you
know
what the fuck your government is doing?
I don't
know if Jack would have stood for it.
Are trees beat?
peace,
Attila
Joke:
How do
you get a logger to cut off his own foot?
answer:
Tell him it is made out of wood.
Well,
maybe it is not a joke, who knows.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:02:24 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Feng Yan <xbchen@SUN.NANKAI.EDU.CN>
Subject: Re: More Berthold Brecht
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19970915144828.0068cdf4@pop.gpnet.it>
MIME-Version:
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On Mon,
15 Sep 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
are easily transform as "a acute or a grave" a', ... etc, if
> a
chinese or japanese wish to post in his native language there's
>
impossible, i'm afraid,
>
Yes,
it's impossible unless you listers all have some software
like
Chinese Star etc. You know, I am working on a Chinese Version of Win95.
Also,
because of my low level English I am busy running after the threads.
But
still i feel great.
Ciao
Yan
We
share the Moon.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 04:36:49 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: your mail
Mime-Version:
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Content-Type:
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At
06:30 PM 9/15/97 -0400, you wrote:
>At
03:43 PM 9/15/97 -0600, Derek wrote:
>>jon
>>where
do you read this? (not that this would be the first tiome ive heard
>>it,
but just curious). article? book? etc?
>>yrs
>>derek
>>
>>On
Mon, 15 Sep 1997, Jonathan Pickle wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
Just got back from a couple days in the woods reading Some of the Dharma -
>>>
Almost, if not more, as artistic as VOC.
>>>
>>>
Was reading article last night about Kerouac, saying he died a racist. Can
>>>
anyone tell me anything about this?
>>>
>>> -Jon
>>>
>>
>Read
it partly from an editorial in the Austin American-Statesman (Austin,
>Texas)
around the time when WSB died. The
author referred to an article in
>Esquire
around the time of JK's death. I have
heard it someplace else, but
>can't
remember.
>
>
> -Jon
>
>
I read
the article in Esquire back then, but it was published some time
after
Kerouac's death. I don't recall the
remarks about racism, but that
doesn't
mean they weren't there.
Mike
Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 04:36:55 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: kerouac on william f. buckley?
-Reply
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
01:36 PM 9/16/97 -0500, you wrote:
>On
Mon, 15 Sep 1997, MARK NIGON wrote:
>
>>
Hi Derek,
>>
>>
Some of the interview is used in the documentary "What Happened to
>>
Kerouc" by Lewis MacAdams and Richard Lerner. The blurbs used in this
>>
doumentary will answer the questions you've asked about though. Sorry,
>>
I can't help you with locating a transcript.
>>
>>
-mark nigon
>>
>>
mark_nigon@mail.campbell-mithun.com
>>
>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>> "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA> 09/15/97
>>
04:47pm >>>
>>
does anyone out there have a copy (VHS) or a transcription (even better)
>>
of kerouac's appearance on william f. buckley's "firing line"? i
would
>>
really appreciate any help you all might be able to provide. (curious
>>
abt
>>
kerouac's comments concerning links b/t beats and hippies as well as
>>
his comments abt ginsberg and gays, etc - and ive heard A
>>
LOT abt this particular interview and would like to check it out myself)
>>
THANKS ya'll
>>
yrs
>>
derek
>>
>Mark,
Derek and others,
>
>I
am also interested in Kerouac's comments. Anyone could post some here?
>And
your opinion?
>
>Ciao
>Yan
>
>We
share the Moon.
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 04:36:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: kerouac on william f. buckley?
-Reply
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Write
to one of those outfits who provide
transcripts
of the weekly Sunday morning
political
shows and see if they might have
it. Those people have been doing this kind
of
stuff for a long time. I saw the
Kerouac
film in
the 80s on Bravo.
Mike
Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 04:37:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: A funny thing happened the other
day..
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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He
wrote about his dislike for hippies in the
Chicago
Tribune Sunday magazine in late August
or
early September, 1969, if you want to read
it. You could look it up!
Mike
Rice
At
01:38 PM 9/16/97 -0500, you wrote:
>On
Mon, 15 Sep 1997, Jonathan or Jennifer wrote:
>
>>
I was in Barnes and Noble bookstore, browsing through
>>
the Jack Kerouac section, when this lady in her 40's-50's
>>
and her husband walked by. she pointed right at one
>>
of Kerouac's books and said in a loud voice to her
>>
husband: "Know that guy? He was a hippie-beatnik."
>>
then she left. i almost burst out laughing. obviously,
>>
this woman knows nothing about Kerouac. he was totally
>>
against the hippies! Just thought i might share that
>>
with everyone.
>>
>>
-Jennifer
>>
-jt712@netpath.net
>>
>What
had Kerouac said against hippies?
>
>Yan
>We
share the Moon.
>
>
It was
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 05:28:34 -0700
Reply-To: mike@buchenroth.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael L. Buchenroth"
<mike@BUCHENROTH.COM>
Organization:
Buchenroth Publishing Company
Subject: Re: Beat Trees
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Attila
Gyenis wrote:
> In
case anybody is following Headwaters forest stuff, there was a > rally this
sunday in Northern California (Stafford), and
there was 400 > cops there in