=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 20 Sep 1997 21:42:02 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

Subject:      Kerouac and Buddhism..

Comments: To: randyr@southeast.net

In-Reply-To:  <199709202234.SAA21866@mailhub.southeast.net>

MIME-Version: 1.0

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There is a great Burroughs quote in Joyce Johnson's intro to "Desolation

Angels" (which I just started), which perfectly expresses his cynicism

abut Kerouac's obsession with Buddhism.  Burroughs knew Kerouac well

enough to know that he could never turn his back on his catholic roots:

 

"A man who uses Buddhism, or any other instrument to remove love from his

being in order to avoid suffering, has committed, in my mind, a

sacriledge comparable to castration"  WSB

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 01:02:24 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Life & Times of Allen Ginsberg

Mime-Version: 1.0

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At 01:55 AM 9/20/97 -0700, you wrote:

>> Mike Rice wrote:

>

>> Was Neal called Neal?  I don't remember, and I don't really care

>> what anyone was called, and I don't care if the letter was

>> based on a letter Jack wrote, though it is not my sense that

>> the letter was from Jack.  I know what the film was about, it

>> was mostly about Neal, but it was sprinkled with a little manque

>> Jack.  As for the covering of the Keanu character.  They can't use

>> a Jack character without the permission of the Heirs.  Cassady is

>> so little known by mainstream folks that they would HAVE TO HAVE

>> a more recognized member of the Beats to even put this story on

>> the screen.  That member is Kerouac, and Reeves plays him, just as

>> a little seasoning in a story about Neal.

>

>I have never seen the film in question but I am curious about your

>assumption "They can't use a Jack character without permission from the

>heirs."  From what I gather from the postings about this movie it was

>obviously a screenplay and not a documentary with actual footage of Jack

>or Neal.  There is nothing that can stop a writer from writing a

>screenplay or a work of fiction about anybody or anything.  In fact one

>could even write a biography about someone without permission if the

>information used was of public record.  The heirs only hold the rights to

>use of the person's original materials.

>DC

>

>

If the producers of a film characterize someone in a way that

endangers Jack's heritage or intellectual property, they can

be sued.  That is why producers often seek the cooperation of

public figures and even their survivors.

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 01:02:29 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: ESSENCE & LONGING

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Spam thru the Beat Group, how crude.  About a year ago,

I ran a footrace at McGregor, Iowa.  There was an old guy

there (most people from Iowa are old, I'm not kidding, go

there and you'll see) wearing a hat with Spam written on

it.  He was some kind of a fanatic about it.  He had toured

the plant in Austin, Minnesota, and went to a Spam festival

somewhere.  Apparently it was some kind of a company public

relations attempt at turning back the tide of bad pr for the

lunchmeat.  They just got done dealing with the aftermath of

World War 11, and along comes this whole internet thing.

 

Mike Rice

 

At 04:55 PM 9/20/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Chad J Blanchard wrote:

>patricia wrote,

>looks like spam to me.

>p

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 01:12:43 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: backSPIN

 

In a message dated 97-09-19 17:19:30 EDT, Sherri wrote:

<<

 thanks for the forward.  great letter from Barry!!  i wonder if/when

 objectivity will return to journalism?

 

 ciao,

 sherri >>

 

Welcome back, Sherri.

 

I know what you mean when you say this, but I have to differentiate between

publications where journalism is actually practiced and the majority of

publications available for sale today.

 

Journalists who are serious about the profession (and there are many working

today) are objective. They also voluntarily adhere to a code of ethics and

know the difference between telling and "spinning" a story.

 

The demand for infotainment and advertorials, coupled with some weird trend

that has brought journalists out from behind the byline and into seats of

public comment and opinion, has resulted in a pandemic of yellow journalism,

although even that is too good a term for it. Dennis Cooper is not a

journalist, and I daresay a review of the editorial board of SPIN, Rolling

Stone, People, the New Yorker, and most popular media today would turn up no

journalists whatsoever.

 

I'm reminded of the George Will "obit" of Allen Ginsberg following the poet's

death, which was much less sympathetic than this piece on Burroughs. What

Will advanced was not journalism, either. It was the power of the bully

pulpit, wielded by some incredible egomaniac with an obvious inferiority

complex and right-wing sentimentalities. And yet, it was offered for sale to

newspapers--journalistic vehicles--all across America, and passed on to the

consumer of the Op-Ed page.

 

It's not so much that objectivity needs to return to journalism. It's that we

as consumers need to realize the difference between people with agendae,

bankrolls and an editorial agenda they want to advance and true journalism,

which is fast becoming a lost art.

 

Just because it's in a newspaper or magazine doesn't mean it's journalism.

Usually, it's not.

                                                            --30--

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 06:15:01 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: backSPIN

 

thanks, Diane.  what you say is quite true.  but most of this garbage goes

under the guise of journalism.  and there are "serious" journalists, who seem

to have stepped into the sensationalist mire, that lends an air of legitimate

journalism to fluff and "grab-the $$" tripe.

 

sadly, the general public seems to have long ago lost the ability to think for

itself, the only way its tastes will be changed, i fear, is if it's lead by

the nose to some reality and objectivity - assuming that's possible.

 

ciao,

sherri

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 03:51:26 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: backSPIN

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

The George Will piece was very interesting, if you ask me.

Will's views on the counter-culture reveal an envy, the kind

of envy you see from someone who was unable to participate in

the events described.  Will's underside has been on view for

years.  He hates baby-boomers, haight-ashbury, anything that isn't

traditional or white tie.  In a word, George is a square.  He embraces

Baseball, Reagan, Literature's Great Canon and all the other eternal

verities.  His subtext is much more interesting than his surface.

Keep reading him, he's jealous!  He's also a great example of what

noone should want to be.

 

Mike Rice

 

At 01:12 AM 9/21/97 -0400, you wrote:

>In a message dated 97-09-19 17:19:30 EDT, Sherri wrote:

><<

> thanks for the forward.  great letter from Barry!!  i wonder if/when

> objectivity will return to journalism?

>

> ciao,

> sherri >>

>

>Welcome back, Sherri.

>

>I know what you mean when you say this, but I have to differentiate between

>publications where journalism is actually practiced and the majority of

>publications available for sale today.

>

>Journalists who are serious about the profession (and there are many working

>today) are objective. They also voluntarily adhere to a code of ethics and

>know the difference between telling and "spinning" a story.

>

>The demand for infotainment and advertorials, coupled with some weird trend

>that has brought journalists out from behind the byline and into seats of

>public comment and opinion, has resulted in a pandemic of yellow journalism,

>although even that is too good a term for it. Dennis Cooper is not a

>journalist, and I daresay a review of the editorial board of SPIN, Rolling

>Stone, People, the New Yorker, and most popular media today would turn up no

>journalists whatsoever.

>

>I'm reminded of the George Will "obit" of Allen Ginsberg following the poet's

>death, which was much less sympathetic than this piece on Burroughs. What

>Will advanced was not journalism, either. It was the power of the bully

>pulpit, wielded by some incredible egomaniac with an obvious inferiority

>complex and right-wing sentimentalities. And yet, it was offered for sale to

>newspapers--journalistic vehicles--all across America, and passed on to the

>consumer of the Op-Ed page.

>

>It's not so much that objectivity needs to return to journalism. It's that we

>as consumers need to realize the difference between people with agendae,

>bankrolls and an editorial agenda they want to advance and true journalism,

>which is fast becoming a lost art.

>

>Just because it's in a newspaper or magazine doesn't mean it's journalism.

>Usually, it's not.

>                                                            --30--

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 04:16:36 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: backSPIN

 

In a message dated 97-09-21 02:14:47 EDT, you write:

 

<< but most of this garbage goes under the guise of journalism.  and there

are "serious" journalists, who seem to have stepped into the sensationalist

mire, that lends an air of legitimate journalism to fluff and "grab-the $$"

tripe. >>

 

I think it's my civic responsibility (huh? wot's that?) to strip away the

guise, always.

 

And any "serious" journalist who steps into the sensationalist mire has lost

his/her credentials. Period.

 

That mire is Never-Never Land. That is the place where, once tainted, one can

never return from. Harder than becoming a virgin all over again.

 

Just my hard-headed, no bullshit, I'll-fight-anyone-who-poses point of view.

 

diane <--- sleeps under newspapers because she likes it....

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 03:14:52 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      the flames

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

testing post

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 11:28:38 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         DuarteMoniz <DuarteMoniz@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>

Subject:      Re: Mime format

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Bill Gargan wrote:

 

> As most of you on the list have noticed, mime format and photographs

> do

> not travel well on Beat-l.  It might be better to mount such files on

> a

> web page and provide listmembers with the url so t hat they can

> download

> them to their hard drives and read them with their browers.

 

 

Can't agree with you. It may desencourage people to send photos and

photos are great to see and rest awhile from all the texts. It was very

nice to see some of you some time back.I also appreciate the posts with

full articles that appear in the US media concerning the beats. It's the

 

only way we (not residents in the USA) can have access to those prints.

I am enjoying very much  being with you all, althought you didn't notice

my presence up until now.

 

Duarte Moniz

Portugal

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 07:16:44 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: HOW TO SING THE BLUES (fwd)

MIME-Version: 1.0

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              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

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couldn't resist sending along this piece of spamedhumor: it's not jazz but i do

believe that even  beats gets the blues:

 

 

> >>

> >>     (attrib. to Memphis Earlene Gray with help from Uncle Plunky)

> >>

> >>   1. Most blues begin "woke up this morning."

> >>

> >>   2. "I got a good woman" is a bad way to begin the blues, unless you

> >>      stick something nasty in the next line.

> >>

> >>          I got a good woman--

> >>          with the meanest dog in town.

> >>

> >>   3. Blues are simple.  After you have the first line right, repeat it.

> >>      Then find something that rhymes.  Sort of.

> >>

> >>          Got a good woman

> >>          with the meanest dog in town.

> >>          He got teeth like Margaret Thatcher

> >>          and he weighs about 500 pounds.

> >>

> >>   4. The blues are not about limitless choice.

> >>

> >>   5. Blues cars are Chevies and Cadillacs.  Other acceptable blues

> >>      transportation is Greyhound bus or a southbound train.  Walkin'

> >>      plays a major part in the blues lifestyle.  So does fixin' to die.

> >>

> >>   6. Teenagers can't sing the blues.  Adults sing the blues.  Blues

> >>      adulthood means old enough to get the electric chair if you shoot a

> >>      man in Memphis.

> >>

> >>   7. You can have the blues in New York City, but not in Brooklyn or

> >>      Queens.  Hard times in Vermont or North Dakota are just a

> >>      depression.  Chicago, St.  Louis and Kansas City are still the best

> >>      places to have the blues.

> >>

> >>   8. The following colors do not belong in the blues:

> >>          a. violet

> >>          b. beige

> >>          c. mauve

> >>

> >>   9. You can't have the blues in an office or a shopping mall, the

> >>      lighting is wrong.

> >>

> >>  10. Good places for the Blues:

> >>          a. the highway

> >>          b. the jailhouse

> >>          c. the empty bed

> >>

> >>      Bad places:

> >>          a. Ashrams

> >>          b. Gallery openings

> >>          c. weekend in the Hamptons

> >>

> >>  11. No one will believe it's the blues if you wear a suit, unless you

> >>      happen to be an old black man.

> >>

> >>  12. Do you have the right to sing the blues?

> >>      Yes, if:

> >>          a. your first name is a southern state -- like Georgia

> >>          b. you're blind

> >>          c. you shot a man in Memphis.

> >>          d. you can't be satisfied.

> >>

> >>     No, if:

> >>          a. you were once blind but now can see.

> >>          b. you're deaf

> >>          c. you have a trust fund.

> >>

> >>  13. Neither Julio Iglesias nor Barbra Streisand can sing the blues.

> >>

> >>  14. If you ask for water and baby gives you gasoline, it's the blues.

> >>      Other blues beverages are:

> >>          a. Wine

> >>          b. Irish whiskey

> >>          c. Muddy water

> >>

> >>      Blues beverages are NOT:

> >>          a. Any mixed drink

> >>          b. Any wine kosher for Passover

> >>          c. Yoo Hoo (all flavors)

> >>

> >>  15. If it occurs in a cheap motel or a shotgun shack, it's blues death.

> >>      Stabbed in the back by a jealous lover is a blues way to die.  So

> >>      is the electric chair, substance abuse, or being denied treatment in

> >>      an emergency room.  It is not a blues death, if you die during a

> >>      liposuction treatment.

> >>

> >>  16. Some Blues names for Women

> >>          a. Sadie

> >>          b. Big Mama

> >>          c. Bessie

> >>

> >>  17. Some Blues Names for Men

> >>          a. Joe

> >>          b. Willie

> >>          c. Little Willie

> >>          d. Lightning

> >>

> >>      Persons with names like Sierra or Sequoia will not be permitted to

> >>      sing the blues no matter how many men they shoot in Memphis.

> >>

> >>  17B. Other Blues Names (Starter Kit)

> >>          a. Name of Physical infirmity (Blind, Cripple, Asthmatic)

> >>          b. First name (see above) or name of fruit (Lemon, Lime, Kiwi)

> >>          c. Last Name of President (Jefferson, Johnson, Fillmore, etc.)

> >>

> >>          Mix and Match

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 10:10:05 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      bardo  message

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All week  long I didn't want to go.  I felt swept with anxiety and

decided about 7 times I wouldn't go.  James, who never calls me, called

me around 1:PM and said he was just checking in to make sure I knew to

come.  Bob, John Myers, Lena and I drove out to Wayne Propst's farm for

the bardo around six.  Wayne was a close and dear friend to William and

an old and dear friend to me.  Wayne is a mad scientist, ingenious with

all things mechanical.   I made a pasta salad and John Myers  took a six

pack..

        Wayne and his family  lives on lush river front land, lots of

outbuildings, scene of hundreds of experiments and gatherings.  William

really never missed Wayne's  parties. Lena heard at school from a

friend, who was also going to the bardo, that Wayne might blow something

up.  The excitement builds when Wayne is involved. Wayne place has an

old farm house, many outbuildings, trees,  giant warm barn, his property

runs along the Kansas river. (We call it the Kaw river), beautiful kaw

valley bottoms.

        The bardo is staged to be In front of the barn, in a small  pasture.

The big barn doors open to the pasture, flooding light from one space

into another, in the middle of the pasture there was a massive dome

shaped, heavy wire cage with a wire door way ,   inside lumber,

fireworks, pictures, and pages and pages of things that people brought,

and were bringing.  I guess one hundred and fifty people.  I knew a

hundred of them,   wide varieties of different folks, overwhelming for

me, actually exchanged cards with some kid that does

www.bourroughs.com. ,  prefect weather, light breeze, around 60 degrees.

        Around dusk, standing in front of the barn,  Wayne spoke  (on a nice

speaker system)  then introduced  James, Jim Gauerholz,. Now it is

getting dark, James  reads a farewell to William's soul letter from

Ohle, first by lighter, which of course at one point you heard a little

sound from James\when it got hot , then someone brought forth a kerosene

lantern from the barn, James then read a  note from Bill R. then James

said a few things and then explained some of the Egyptian and Tibetan

Buddhistic relationship in the ceremony, tying  in the significance of

Williams writings in the  "Western Lands" .

        Wayne goes to the dome and lights  the fire and it was glorious, it

grew, it swirled, popped, pulsed, danced. The cage was a dome about 12

feet high and 20 feet across., things like pictures, posters, objects

d'art, and many many papers laid on the lumber but  things and paper

also hang suspended from the cage. Once the fire flowered,  came

Williams voice, reading from Western Lands.  It was perfect, I swear the

fire danced with his voice.  The Cheshire cat had his smile but

William's voice was the most evocative voice.  I got up and went nearer

the fire, strode around the fire ,  circled it three times.  There is

some great music, playing background on the tape of Williams voice, the

fire crackles. Fire works are staged inside the cage with the  boards,

and objects, they go off in layers by heat and highth of the fire, there

is crackers, roman candles, fountains , wild pictures in the fire,

colors shooting out in unpredictable arks.  this fire is a masterpiece.

        Tim Millers's boys and Waynes boy Louie, dart back and forth in front

of the fire, popping little sticks through an opening in the cage door.

Most people sat in chairs and on benches in a large semi circle, music,

flames, love.  I stood up with James and Bill Hatke, the sparks flew

wild.  In the crowd was William's Dentist, Charley Kincaid, (he had been

one of the pall bearers at the Liberty Hall service) and he is the

wildest funniest man with a wonderful good soul.  That guy can distract

you from a root canal with his wit.  Fred Aldridge sat in one chair, He

shot with William  weekly for ten years or more.  Fred is a tall skinny

redhead, I've known him for 30 years. I introduced William to Fred.

William was like a father to Fred's soul.   Fred  is a talented

musician, artist, driven always to some elegant perfection.   There were

the New York suits standing in the barn,   they seemed to be having a

remarkably good time and the most relaxed I had ever seen the suits.  In

the crowd are such a variety of people that I am stunned but recognize

that these were all people that William had built a relationship with

over the 16 years he had made Lawrence his home.  William loved persons

rather than people, and he loved fun. It was a fun and a sober sight to

see the embers chasing to the sky and think that's Williams soul flying

to the western lands.

        I feel when William first died, his spirit was there in the room with

his body, it was comforting. Then I felt his spirit whirling around the

world, I almost know he went to Tangiers for a moment.  I feel he is

gone.  we have lots to do now.

> Patricia

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 08:40:35 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: backSPIN

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

.  He hates baby-boomers, haight-ashbury, anything that isn't

> traditional or white tie.  In a word, George is a square.  He embraces

> Baseball, Reagan, Literature's Great Canon and all the other eternal

> verities.  His subtext is much more interesting than his surface.

> Keep reading him, he's jealous!  He's also a great example of what

> noone should want to be.

> >

> >

Mike,

 

I think most of what you say about G. Will is true, not sure about

giving you "envy" but the rest of it.  But thank God the world is not

monochromatic.  Will, wrong as he may be, can write and can think well,

even if he is often guilty of sophistry and glibness.  He is useful in

the same way as Buckley is--they should  make one think. To simply

dismiss someone like Will or Buckley because the are "rightwingers" is

no better than it is for Will to dismiss everything someone like

Ginsberg advocates because he was a leftist hippy.

 

I am not at all sure they envy the other side.  Will lives very well.

What makes you think that when he sits in splendor in Georgtown drinking

old and expensive wine,  Will is wishing for the creative squalor of the

Haight?

 

J. Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 15:42:50 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: backSPIN

 

goodo for you!!

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 16:01:57 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: bardo  message

 

Patricia thank you for sharing this.  very moving.  i've never had an

experience like that, but it seems a beautiful way to say good bye.

 

hope you're doing well.

 

ciao,

sherri

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 16:10:22 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

 

sorry, my note to patricia was supposed to be backchannel.  didn't mean to

load you mailboxes.

 

ciao,

sherri

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 09:24:22 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: bardo  message

MIME-Version: 1.0

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=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 16:42:54 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: bardo  message

 

Leon - i don't know what's going on - but everything you send to me is coming

out in code!

:-(

 

sherri

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 10:05:44 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: bardo  message

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

There was something happening on my server. It is supposedly corrected now.

I resent you the letter to you. Did it get there ok? Sorry for the hassle.

Please tell me if you got it ungarbled now. Thanks

 

leon

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Sunday, September 21, 1997 9:38 AM

Subject: Re: bardo message

 

 

 

>Leon - i don't know what's going on - but everything you send to me is

coming

>out in code!

>:-(

>

>sherri

>.-

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 14:09:33 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: backSPIN

 

In a message dated 97-09-21 11:45:21 EDT, The honorable James Stauffer wrote:

 

<< Will, wrong as he may be, can write and can think well, even if he is

often guilty of sophistry and glibness.  He is useful in the same way as

Buckley is--they should  make one think. To simply dismiss someone like Will

or Buckley because the are "rightwingers" is no better than it is for Will to

dismiss everything someone like

 Ginsberg advocates because he was a leftist hippy. >>

 

Since I'm the one who applied the "rightwinger" label here, I feel compelled

to clarify the discussion.

 

Will's piece, syndicated by the Washington Post on 9 April 1997, titled "The

Ginsberg Commodity," demonstrated the same sort of skillful propagandizing

and dehumanization practiced by other great communicators (Adolph Hitler, for

one, Rush Limbaugh, for another).

 

I certainly do not dismiss him, although I'd like to. I can't get to that

editorial he wrote anymore via the Internet, and don't know if I have it in

hard copy around here anywhere, but what he said about Ginsberg amounted not

to a critique by a rational person with an opposing point of view, but a

personal attack and diatribe against all who do not think like Will believes

we should. Will is not a journalist; he's an editorialist and an apologist

for the blinders-wearing rightest right wing. He reminds me, frighteningly,

of the McCarthy types who ruled so much of thought (or tried to) in the late

Fifties and early Sixties.

 

And yes, his tone was decidedly envious. I wrote, half-jokingly to a friend,

that in high school, Will probably wasn't asked to step outside and smoke a

joint with the other kids during study hall, and has carried that resentment

ever since. I remember also being impressed with how offended he was at the

size of Ginsberg's obit in the major papers, including, ironically, the

NYTimes. He has a serious case of "obit-envy," and my twisted little

emotional brain was wondering what other issues of size and quantity he might

have lurking in his mind, or parts south.

 

Okay, that was crude. But editorials like Will's are the reason I feel so

motivated to talk about this here, not just to defend Ginsberg, or to

demystify Dennis Cooper. The point is (and Sherri really tried to make it in

the first place) that people don't really realize the difference between

opinion and journalism, and tend to take the media literally and then bemoan

the loss of objectivity in journalism when, in fact, they're being fed a

personal agenda. And George Will, a human being, has demonstrated that he has

a profound agenda and a strong, personal dislike of Allen Ginsberg, as did

Dennis Cooper in his pretend eulogy of WSB.

 

Part of what made the Beats 'beat' was the way they not only looked behind

the curtain, but actually tore the son-of-a-bitch down through their

writings, readings, and lifestyle. Behind the newsprint-and-ink curtain of

today are a whole bunch of egos with personal computers. They are not writing

history. They are not writing fact. They are not journalists. They are people

who have the power of the printing press and can use it any way they wish,

and they are almost never objective.

 

I don't wish to ban George Will or Dennis Cooper from writing. I just need to

say that neither of them is a journalist, nor are they scholars or

historians. They are both just voices, as I am, as you are, but they have the

advantage of appearing legitimate because their opinions are presented for

consumption by hundreds of thousands of people who read them over coffee and

scrambled eggs, and don't always stop to notice how much of what they say is

not only opinion, but revisionistic lying.

 

                                                  --30--

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 14:12:33 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marlene Giraud <M84M79@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Life & Times of Allen Ginsberg

 

Mike,

I don't want to sound pushy or anything, but i really don't think it was

supposed to be Jack, but i'm just taking it from the context of the letter.

So, maybe i'm wrong, but that will change my entire opinion about the movie.

So, was the character "Benjamin" supposed to be Allen? I suspected that the

director threw him in it for fun. Its not that I want to prove you wrong, but

Keanu Reeves as JK, gimme a break, that would be awful. If anyone has any

info. to add about this, i would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.

                   ~~Marlene

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 14:25:39 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: bardo  message

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

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loud and clear, leon!

mc

 

Leon Tabory wrote:

 

> There was something happening on my server. It is supposedly corrected now.

> I resent you the letter to you. Did it get there ok? Sorry for the hassle.

> Please tell me if you got it ungarbled now. Thanks

>

> leon

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

> To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

> Date: Sunday, September 21, 1997 9:38 AM

> Subject: Re: bardo message

>

> >Leon - i don't know what's going on - but everything you send to me is

> coming

> >out in code!

> >:-(

> >

> >sherri

> >.-

> >

> >

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 14:35:40 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marlene Giraud <M84M79@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Life & Times of Allen Ginsberg

 

Mike, mike, mike,

 

Bruce was right, and the letter was from Neal to Jack. How can you be so

adamant about a movie you hardly remember? It was put on the screen because

the letter was famous. Jack said as a respose to Neal's letter, "I thought it

ranked among the best things ever written in America..." So its very

plausible that a movie would be made from it. And in my humble opinion, Neal

needed no "seasoning" He was the epitimy of spice. Red hot and exploding.

Thanks.

                 ~~Marlene

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 14:36:45 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      cross post on Kerouac from Dylan

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Here is a cross post from the Dylan group on Kerouac's influence on

Dylan and Angels.

 

ubject:

        Re: Angel

   Date:

        Sat, 20 Sep 1997 23:27:32 -0500

   From:

        John Mulligan & Claire Piper <spirit@TOWNSQR.COM>

_________________________Cross post below ________________________

 

 

My take on Angel, for what it's worth, has always been that the line

simply

refers to one of Bob's hipster friends; in my minds eye a young (as Bob

himself was when he wrote the line) pretty boy. Dylan was hugely

influenced

by the Beats and Kerouac made use of the term angel quite a bit.

remember

Desolation Angels? In this kerouac book Jack and his friends, notably

one

based on poet Gary Snyder, climb and spend time in the Desolation

Mountains.

To Kerouac, his friends the Beats are beatified, hence they are angels,

hence Angel.

 

John Mulligan

spirit@townsqr.com

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 16:08:26 -0400

Reply-To:     atrigili@lynx.dac.neu.edu

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tony Trigilio <atrigili@LYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU>

Organization: Northeastern University

Subject:      Re: backSPIN & envy

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Mike Rice wrote:

>

> The George Will piece was very interesting, if you ask me.

> Will's views on the counter-culture reveal an envy, the kind

> of envy you see from someone who was unable to participate in

> the events described.

 

I agree:  repressed envy usually simmers around these kind of pieces,

and Will's obit in particular is no exception.

 

Norman Podhoretz confesses this envy himself in his essay I quoted on

the list a few weeks ago, "My War With Allen Ginsberg" (from the August

1997 issue of *Commentary*).  I don't have the piece in front of me, so

can only paraphrase.  Podhoretz admits in the essay that envy helped

fuel his anti-Beat polemics.  Maybe readers of his antagonistic essays

have suspected as much over the years, but these kind of suspicions are

difficult to prove.  As I said a few weeks ago, the essay is worth

reading, if anything for Podhoretz's honesty.

 

Tony

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"Yes, I'd swim in coffee if it wasn't too hot.  But

the trouble is, it's too hot.  And expensive."

--Ed Poindexter

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 16:48:55 -0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Bruce W. Hartman, Jr." <bwhartmanjr@INAME.COM>

Subject:      Re: Life & Times of Allen Ginsberg

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Leon,

 

        I finally took a moment out to read the "Joan Anderson" letter as it is

presented in The Beat Reader.  To me, the movie seemed pretty faithful.

How, exactly, do you think it wasn't?  I'm not trying to be antagonistic,

just curious for your interpretation.

 

always my best to you,

 

 

Bruce

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 05:27:25 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: backSPIN

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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> Diane De Rooy:

> Okay, that was crude. But editorials like Will's are the reason I feel

> so

> motivated to talk about this here, not just to defend Ginsberg, or to

> demystify Dennis Cooper. The point is (and Sherri really tried to make

> it in

> the first place) that people don't really realize the difference

> between

> opinion and journalism, and tend to take the media literally and then

> bemoan

> the loss of objectivity in journalism when, in fact, they're being fed

> a

> personal agenda. And George Will, a human being, has demonstrated that

> he has

> a profound agenda and a strong, personal dislike of Allen Ginsberg, as

> did

> Dennis Cooper in his pretend eulogy of WSB.

 

The point is that there is a big difference between an editorial and an

article.  Dennis Cooper was not out of line in writing a negative

editorial about Burroughs, he was out of line because he didn't get his

facts straight.  If George Will syndicates his editorials and sends them

out across the country, there is also nothing wrong with that, if they

appear as his column. I don't know the creditionals, if any, of either of

these people.  But the fact that they print opinion in an editorial does

not diminish the fact they might be journalists when covering other

stories.  That is the greatness of a free press.  You can say anything

you want to, be it a personal agenda or not.  The opponents of Burroughs

and Ginsberg have just as much right to their opinion as we do to ours.

As you pointed out, the fine line comes when someone reading it doesn't

understand the difference between an editorial and serious journalism

that covers both sides of an issue.  Intelligent, educated people know

the difference.  The fact that masses of people might not know the

difference doesn't mean editorials shouldn't be printed, it means that

those who want the other side to be seen need to be vocal.  They need to

write letters to the editor.  And any newspaper or magazine that is

serious about its intent will print the letters.  It is especially

important now that Ginsberg, Kerouac, and Burroughs are gone, that

through "writings, readings, and lifestyle" we carry on the meaning and

integrity of their works in any way that we can.  That we take the

responsibility to see that there are as many people writing favorable

opinions and articles as there are negative ones.  You can never silence

those that disagree with the voices of the beats and you can never

educate the masses in their ignorance.  All you can do is fight for the

truth in every way you can, and make sure that those with a personal

agenda in ther public media are countered by the other side.

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 23:30:30 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Janine Pommy Vega.

In-Reply-To:  <199709200006.BAA15702@ns.ulisse.it>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Which Side Are You On?                  by Janine Pommy Vega

 

 

 

 

Where does my anger come from

        at the laziness, the prosaic?

How many times will you enter a room

        and leave it vacant: in and out,

in and out, visiting a temple of possibility

and never leave a gift on the altar?

 

Come down to the river of your own soul, we are

        excavating

here, the yellow helmets you see are so many

suns on the horizon, going down and coming up

in no particular time sequence or order.

When one flower opens, Kabir says,

                ordinarily

dozens open. I'm digressing.

 

Every time you visit yourself without

        respect, you lose. Without love,

Also.

Read the coins you've thrown down into the dirt,

they spell integrity. You recall those

early moments in

your young life when you sang. And we were

        witnesses-- if not then, now. We can

             see you

outside the ordinary, grab onto a miracle and

understand it was no more you than the

     wind.

 

Oh, so that's it, finally:

No more you or me than that mountain

        there. And no mountain either.

 

                Which side are you on?

 

 

 

Eastern Correctional Facility, Napanock, NY, June 6,1996

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 17:57:50 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: backSPIN

 

In a message dated 97-09-21 17:19:20 EDT, Diane Carter wrote:

 

<< That is the greatness of a free press.  You can say anything

 you want to, be it a personal agenda or not.  >>

 

You might want to check out The Associated Press Stylebook and Libel Manual

on this point before making such a broad generalization.

 

I am not talking about stifling a free press or First Amendment rights. I'm

simply making a point that there are many poseurs in the media today who

accidentally or deliberately define "journalism."

 

If you're unclear about my point of view, you can certainly find out more by

studying the publications and websites of voluntary societies journalists

conform to, for the purpose of maintaining objectivity and separating that

from opinion. These include Accuracy in Media, The American Journalism

Review, and the Society for Professional Journalists.

 

There is a grey area here, Diane, and that's the one people always end up

arguing about. When does the right of one person supersede the right of

another?

 

People can write all the negative things they want to all day long, and they

will. But when they try to pass that off as journalism, that is where I draw

the line.

 

Dennis Cooper is a writer and a poet. George Will is a political commentator.

Each of them wrote about a famous dead person after that person's death. Each

of them lied in the course of their writing about their subjects. How many

readers knew that? How many readers thought they were reading something they

assumed was the truth? We're not talking about the National Enquirer here.

We're talking about mainstream publications that are taken seriously by their

markets.

 

That's the beauty--and the downside--of a free press. But please, don't think

I would ever advocate for anything else.

 

Nevertheless, freedom is not license.

 

Curiously, I ran across an interesting bit from a letter in Hunter S.

Thompson's exhaustive archive today that echoes from the past: "Indeed, much

of what Thompson wrote about the profession in a 1958 letter to Editor &

Publisher magazine sounds like a bullseye assessment of journalism's present

state: "For my money, [journalism] has nearly tumbled head over heels in its

hurry to toss away its integrity and compromise with the public taste, the

mass intellect and the self-sighted demands of profit-hungry advertisers . .

. "

 

Pete Rose will never be in the Hall of Fame because he was caught gambling. A

vegetarian who eats a Big Mac is no longer a vegetarian. A reporter who

writes opinion is no journalist.

 

As fascinating as this must be to the 262 consumers of the Beat-L list (more

comic relief), I'm going to bow out of this dialog listwise now. Please feel

free to continue the discussion with me at ddrooy@aol.com.

 

Sincerely,

An "Intelligent, educated, people" who's is "fight[ing] for the truth in

every way [she] can, [to] make sure that those with a personal agenda in ther

public media are countered by the other side,"

 

diane de rooy

 

dig?

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 18:48:33 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Skau <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>

Subject:      patriotism

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Happy last day of summer!

I can't help but feel that the Beats, particularly Ginsberg and Kerouac,

have strong adherence to America. Ginsberg refers to the America, "where

we hug and kiss the United States under our bedsheets, the United States

who coughs all night and won't let us sleep" (Howl, pt. 3). The love is

qualified, but it can hardly be stated more directly. _On the Road_ often

seems like a Valentine to America and its people (other than the

"slopjaws" of Washington and the police). We also need to remember

Kerouac's first meeting with Kesey, where Jack, invited to sit on a

flag-covered sofa, folded up the flag in careful boy-scout fashion.

Perhaps the essence of the conflict here can best be addressed by George

Orwell, in a sadly neglected essay "Notes on Nationalism":

"By 'nationalism' I mean first of all the habit of assuming that human

beings can be classified like insects and that whole blocks of millions or

tens of millions of people can be confidently labelled 'good' or 'bad.'

But secondly--and this is much more important--I mean the habit of

identifying oneself with a single nation or other unit, placing it beyond

good and evil and recognising no other duty than that of advancing its

interests. Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. Both words

are normally used in so vague a way that any definition is liable to be

challenged, but one must draw a distinction between them, since two

different and even opposing ideas are involved. By 'patriotism' I mean

devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one

believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force upon other

people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and

culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire

for power."

In these terms, the Beats, particularly Kerouac, Ginsberg, and Corso, are

patriotic, but not nationalistic.

Does this make sense?

Cordially,

Michael Skau

9/21/97

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 21:45:34 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jonathan Pickle <jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>

Subject:      Re: [Fwd: Dylan influenced by Kerouac?]

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 09:50 PM 9/19/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Here is an interesting post from the Dylan news group, one more to

>follow.

>

>Peace,

>--

>Bentz

>bocelts@scsn.net

>

>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclawPath:

>

Supernews69!Supernews60!supernews.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!cpk-news-hub1.bbnpl

ane

>

t.com!su-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsgate.tandem.com!uun

et!

> in3.uu.net!208.206.146.5!news.velocity.net!not-for-mail

>From: "Justin Mando" <jmando@velocity.net>

>Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan

>Subject: Dylan influenced by Kerouac?

>Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:48:07 -0400

>Organization: Velocity.Net

>Message-ID: <5vmu9u$g6r$1@news.velocity.net>

>NNTP-Posting-Host: d25.velocity.net

>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.0544.0

>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE Engine V4.71.0544.0

>Xref: Supernews69 rec.music.dylan:93781

>

>Hello fellow Dylan listeners,

>

>I was wondering if anyone knows if Dylan was at all influenced by Jack

>Kerouac.  I just finished "On The Road" and it makes me think about Dylan.

>It seems his music was influenced by Kerouac or other "beat" writers such

>as Ginsberg or Burroughs possibly.  If anyone knows an answer to this

>please let me know.  Thanks.  I will leave this with the coolest quote

>ever.

>

>"The only ones for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad

>to talk, and mad to be saved, the ones who are desirous of everything at

>the same time, the ones that never yawn or says a commonplace thing, but

>burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow Roman candles like spiders across the

>stars and the blue centerlight pops and everybody goes 'Awww!'" --Jack

>Kerouac

>

>

>Justin Mando

>jmando@velocity.net

>

>

Of course Dylan was influenced by Kerouac.  During the Rolling Thunder

Revue tour of the mid seventies, he was near Lowell and he stopped of at

Jack's grave and held a vigil there and played songs for Jack.

 

Jon

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 22:11:22 -0400

Reply-To:     "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>

Subject:      mass suicide postings

 

Question: (since this is one of the recent threads, anyway)

 

when exactly did The Last Time I Commited Suicide come out?  I've been

assuming that it's already available on video, but in the neighborhood

vidoe store tonite I saw a poster hanging underneath the "coming soon"

sign, & the poster was for LTICS, so now I'm confused.  Esp. since I never

remember it ever being in the theatres...I thought this was a past movie,

not recent.  Or is my video store just slow?

 

But I did make sure to check the fine print on the poster where they list

the actors & teh directors, etc, & there it was: "Based on a Letter by Neal

Cassady."  Made me proud to read that.

 

Diane. (H)

 

--

I should have loved a thunderbird instead.                    --Sylvia Plath

 

Diane M. Homza                                   ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 21 Sep 1997 19:35:23 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: backSPIN

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Diane and Tony,

 

I never like to find myself on the wrong side of an argument with those

I respect, particularly on an issue I don't have a deep feeling about,

but since I am the one that put myself in the rather difficult and not

entirely characteristic position of defending George Will I will make

one more argument on this thread and respectfully let in rest.

 

Both of you and Diane Carter have pointed to the difference between

editorial writing and reporting.  The Spin piece I did not read and from

what I gathered it is at least factually substantially inaccurate.  Will

certainly doesn't even claim to be a reporter but a commentator.  Some

polemic is natural in that role. It's poartly what he's getting paid to

do.  Arouse argument.    Certainly we know enough when reading editorial

comment to know that we are reading an argument rather than a recitation

of facts and to take into account the bias of the writer who is

generally someone whose basic assumptions we already know.  We know what

kind of "spin" to expect and react accordingly. At least that is the way

I think I generally read columnists.  There are people I almost never

agree with but still can't resist reading. Do we really think that the

American reader is so stupid that he believes everything he sees in a

newspaper or magazine.

 

I have only vague memories of Wills piece on AG and thought it was

weaker than usual for him.  Will strongly dislikes AG, I strongly love

him.  But as I remember Will's take it goes something like this.  He

sees Allan as one of those who helped destroy a set of rules, chemical,

sexual, and political that Will sees as fundamental to social order. As

a result of Allan's impact on America he sees social breakdown.  It is

hard to argue that everyone who has followed to some extent that sort of

path that Allan appeared to advocate has escaped without scratch.  The

beat and post beat life path exposes one to real risks.  Our history is

full of madness, overdoses and some damn difficult lives. Living outside

the law ain't easy,  I personally feel that the risk was worth it.  I

took my risks knowingly and for the most part have survived them.  Lots

didn't.  Therefore it doesn't suprise me that for someone who strongly

values an ordered and traditional value structure finds the effect of

Allan on the culture to have been a bad thing.  It is easy for even

those of us who loved the sixties to find aspects of them that are easy

to ridicule.  Does anyone remember Richard Brautigan's buffallo hunt in

Golden Gate Park, for example.  That Will comes down on the side of

order rather than risk doesn't make him a fascist murder of millions

like Hitler or a ranting maniac like Limbaugh.  I am a little amazed,

Diane, that you would make the Hitler analogy for a mild mannered bow

tied nerd like Will.

 

I would also argue that it is possible to not even envy this life

style.  Podherz certainly does admit envy in the piece Tony posted

earlier--but it was primarily envy of Ginsberg's influence, was it not,

rather than the life he lived.  Maybe George wanted to get asked outside

to smoke a joint.  Maybe he didn't.  Are we arguing that everyone would

be a hippy if they had only been invited to join? Or that there are no

other legitimate choices?

 

I think that is what bothers me about this thread.  The assumption that

if someone doesn't like the guys we like they aren't just wrong,  or

have different tastes but lying, envious duplicitous bastards.  It's the

flip side of what the "fascists" are always supposed to be doing--simply

dismissing anything which challenges their assumptions because they

don't like the life style.  Why is calling something "right wing" enough

to make something automatically wrong?  Is "left wing" automatically

right?  That kind of thinking is what got well meaning American leftists

caught in the position defending  Stalin's slaughter of  his own

people.

 

But enough of this before I get called a "fascist ditto head" as I did

during some old Beat-L flame war.  I love you all.

 

J. Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:04:30 -0700

Reply-To:     mike@buchenroth.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael L. Buchenroth" <mike@BUCHENROTH.COM>

Organization: Buchenroth Publishing Company

Subject:      Re: Janine Pommy Vega.

Comments: cc: rinaldo@gpnet.it

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

> Which Side Are You On?                  by Janine Pommy Vega

***

To view a photo of Janine Pommy Vega, Josh Norton, Allen Ginsberg,

Elizabeth Plymell, and Pamela Beach Plymell seated at the Plymell's

dining room table in Cherry Valley, NY go to

 

http://www.buchenroth.com/gnsbpomy.jpg

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 02:00:11 -0700

Reply-To:     mike@buchenroth.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael L. Buchenroth" <mike@BUCHENROTH.COM>

Organization: Buchenroth Publishing Company

Subject:      Re: Life & Times of Allen Ginsberg

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Bob Whiteley wrote:

>

> In regards to the Keanu Reeves portrayal in "the last time I committed

***

In the letter, Neal Cassady writes, "I was almost past this bar when I

glanced up to see my younger blood-brother inside drinking beer alone."

Portable Beat Reader; ed Ann Charters, (Pinguin, 1992), New York, p 201.

and in last paragraph N Cassady writes, "as I drank my last

blood-brother beer ..." (p 208)

***

I have looked in Holy Goof,  First Third, Grace Meets Karma, Off the

Road, the Tom Christopher book, "Neal Cassady, volume One

***

Neal only had older half brothers. His only full sibling and younger

full or half sibling was Shirley Cassady. At bottom of page 201 Cassady

called this blood-brother Bill. So he could refer to Bill Cannastra who

drank abundantly and had head decapitated hanging out train window and

friend of Kerouac, Bill Tomson who introduced Neal to Carolyn for first

time and oftentimes brooded over women and would have felt like Neal

owed him Cherry Mary as Neal had stolen Carolyn from him, Neal's half

brother (oldest) who died May 22, 1936 when family lived on Champa

Street or as some combination or fictional characteras in letter Neal

referred to letter as a story.

Who really knows????

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:17:24 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Jon B. Pearlstone" <THYE@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Looking forward to participating in group

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

Greetings:

 

I just stumbled into the Beat Generation list and I am anxious to exchang=

e

ideas with others who are into the Beats.  In addition to a strong intere=

st

in the works of Kerouac, I also have been strongly influenced by Alan Wat=

ts.

 Although Watts was never included in the official Beat Generation, he

brought the influence of Zen to many major Beat figures and interacted wi=

th

the Beats regularly.  He recently came out with an audio cassette version=

 of

his book:  Zen and the Beat Way that I used as a basis for an "Alternativ=

e

Entrerpeneur" column I write for a business publication. =20

 

I would be very interested in feedback from the group on my column, Watts=

 and

any other views that are on your minds.  Looking forward to hearing from =

you.

 

Here is the column:

 

Time is WHAT?=20

 

 The Beat Way to Entrepreneurism

 

By J  Pearlstone

 

Time is money, right?     While many believe time represents money, most

would be better off defining it as something else.   My personal experien=

ces

and a little American history will help prove my point.=20

 

Last year, I semi-retired at the age of 33,  sacrificing a significant in=

come

for no structure whatsoever.  It was a difficult decision.  However, a ye=

ar

later, I am happier than ever.  I now see my biggest obstacle to happines=

s

was the =93time is money=94 trap.  In essence, this trap is the belief th=

at work

must be endured in exchange for maximum financial gain.

 

Many entrepreneurs are caught in this trap. Are you?  Take the following

brief quiz and find out:

=09

      Question 1           Do you love the work you do each day?

        Question 2         Would you do your job for free?

        .

If your answer to either question is no, welcome to =93the trap=94.  Now,=

 you

might argue that you can love work even though you require compensation f=

or

it.  This argument doesn=92t hold up when you think of other things you l=

ove to

do and take the same quiz.  Not only would most do other activities they =

love

for free--they often pay good money to do them.   =20

 

In my case, once I realized I didn=92t love my job for the sake of the wo=

rk

itself, I decided  to find a more fulfilling use of my time, even if it m=

eant

less income.  In other words--time could no longer be money.  =20

 

 

If time isn=92t money, then what is it? =20

 

 

Like many good questions, there is no easy answer.  It has been hard to

explain my semi-retirement to friends and business associates.  The reaso=

ns I

give usually result in blank stares and comments like, =93Well, good luck=

,

anyway=94.  But, recently I found there are precedents for my feelings.  =

Here=92s

an example:

 

        =93We make a very destructive division between work and play.  We spend =

eight

        hours, or whatever it may be, at work in order to earn the money to enjo=

y

        ourselves in the other eight hours.  And this is a perfectly ridiculous =

way

of  =20

      living.=94

 

        Alan Watts  From Zen and the Beat Way, Tuttle, 1997

 

Before you picture me wearing a Nehru jacket and Birkenstocks, let me cle=

arly

state that I=92m not a Beatnik or a Zen Buddhist.  This quote simply expr=

esses

my feelings accurately. The quote doesn=92t completely answer the questio=

n of

what time is, but it does explain why time should not be money.

   Apparently, the  =93time is money=94 trap has been around awhile, as t=

his

quote is from a radio show in 1959.

 

I dug a little further and found other similarities between my outlook an=

d

the philosophies of the Beat Generation of the 50=92s and 60=92s.  They d=

isliked

the label =93Beat Generation=94, just as I dislike being labeled anti-bus=

iness.

 The Beats were simply people willing to acknowledge their lack of

fulfillment with societal norms.  They wanted to follow their hearts to f=

ind

activities that were meaningful to them.  Watts continues:

 

        =93....And so a lot of young men have come to the realization that inste=

ad of

 =20

           making money to live some other time--that is, after hours, or

when they =20

           retire---they have   decided they should do what they really wa=

nt

to do now,=20

           come what may....=94

 

I=92ll update this quote by adding that I=92m sure many young women feel =

the same

way.

 

Please don=92t let these ideas fool you into thinking that I=92m saying =93=

time is

play=94.   Work is definitely worthwhile--when it=92s fulfilling.  And th=

ere is

nothing wrong with realizing a financial gain from your work.  In fact, I

recommend it highly as a way to pay your bills.  On the other hand, enjoy=

ing

what you do is more important than earning every possible dollar you can.

 Therefore, during my first year of semi-retirement, I=92ve looked for pr=

ojects

I love first,  and have the potential for financial gain second.

 

With one year under my belt, I have begun several projects ranging from

developing a new form of retirement planning to acting in theater and

commercial productions.  Since I am not guaranteed any compensation, I am

free to work on each project whenever I like (which in the case of my pro=

ject

to establish myself as a columnist is currently 10:50 on a Sunday night).=

 =20

 

I suspect juggling many projects will slow down the financial results of =

all

of them.  Factor in the option of dropping or adding projects, and an act=

ive

family and personal schedule (plus the many times I choose to do nothing)=

,

and you can see why succeeding by today=92s entrepreneurial standards wil=

l be

challenging--and  risky.  But,  for me, this =93Beat Way=94 of entreprene=

urism is

more rewarding than living in the =93time is money=94 trap for 30 years t=

o only

then begin pursuing your passions. =20

 

I=92m off to a great start.   I love what I=92m doing, and, a few of my p=

rojects

have started making money.  Not nearly as much I used to make in cold, ha=

rd

cash, but significantly more when I include the value of my quality of li=

fe.=20

 

And that,  for me,  is the answer to the question:  Time is quality of li=

fe.

  =20

In the 1950s-60s,  exciting, new ideas came from Kerouac=92s classic book=

 On

the Road, Allen Ginsberg=92s poetry, and Alan Watts=92 explanations of Ze=

n.  I am

combining the best of the Beat Generation's ideas with the entrepreneuria=

l

spirit of the 90=92s.   My escape from =93the trap=94 may not convince yo=

u the

=93Beat Way=94 is right for you, but it should convince you to think abou=

t what

time is to you and if it makes you happy.  After all, as any Zen master o=

r

your attorney will tell you, time is all you=92ve got.

 

J Pearlstone, a 34 year old entrepreneur from St. Louis, is now semi-reti=

red

and works on various projects between mountain bike rides to the beach in=

 the

San Francisco Bay area.

 

c 1997 J Pearlstone

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 01:02:45 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Life & Times of Allen Ginsberg

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

I rented this movie yesterday at Blockbuster, so it is in the stores, and I

also never saw that it played in any theaters.

 

The Reeves character was portrayed as older, in his early thirties in the

movie.  In first third he describes him as the younger blood-brother as Bob

related in this quote: "I was almost past this bar when I

glanced up to see my younger blood-brother inside drinking beer alone."  I

don't know why they changed it.  And blood brother is never the biological

brother, it's a good great friend.  Boys'll cut their thumbs and let the

blod run together to become blood brothers.

 

Also, the movie had the Reeves character go outside and beg Cassady to go

in the bar and drink, much different than in the book.

 

 

 

>Bob Whiteley wrote:

>>

>> In regards to the Keanu Reeves portrayal in "the last time I committed

>***

>In the letter, Neal Cassady writes, "I was almost past this bar when I

>glanced up to see my younger blood-brother inside drinking beer alone."

>Portable Beat Reader; ed Ann Charters, (Pinguin, 1992), New York, p 201.

>and in last paragraph N Cassady writes, "as I drank my last

>blood-brother beer ..." (p 208)

>***

>I have looked in Holy Goof,  First Third, Grace Meets Karma, Off the

>Road, the Tom Christopher book, "Neal Cassady, volume One

>***

>Neal only had older half brothers. His only full sibling and younger

>full or half sibling was Shirley Cassady. At bottom of page 201 Cassady

>called this blood-brother Bill. So he could refer to Bill Cannastra who

>drank abundantly and had head decapitated hanging out train window and

>friend of Kerouac, Bill Tomson who introduced Neal to Carolyn for first

>time and oftentimes brooded over women and would have felt like Neal

>owed him Cherry Mary as Neal had stolen Carolyn from him, Neal's half

>brother (oldest) who died May 22, 1936 when family lived on Champa

>Street or as some combination or fictional characteras in letter Neal

>referred to letter as a story.

>Who really knows????

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 07:39:28 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: october's Cover of the Month and Web Page Update!

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

loved it, paul. mc

 

Paul A. Maher Jr. wrote:

 

> The Cover of the Month is now ready with a sincere thanks to Bill Gargan for

> the scan. The Kerouac Quarterly Web Page has been updated as well. Please

> visit us at:

>

> http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/page5.html

>

>                          Thank-you! Paul of TKQ...

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 12:56:13 BST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tom Harberd <T.E.Harberd@UEA.AC.UK>

Subject:      Re: something to SPIN...

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

 

>

> I read Naked Lunch in 1970 and think nothing of it.  I

> can't remember much about it, except that there was

little]

> in it that you could interpret let alone remember. I have

> been hearing that Burroughs wrote a book called Junkie.  I

> am hoping he might have written it before Naked Lunch, and

that

> it might be autobiographical.  Could someone tell me when

it

> was written, and, briefly, what it is about.

 

Junky was WSB's first book.  Needing money (and, I think,

prompted by Kerouac and Ginsberg), he wrote what is

essentially a "how I became a junky, and what junky life is

like book".  Like Queer, his other semi-autobiographical

book, it is written staightforward without any of the

literary experiments of later years.  Some people find it

fascinating.  As for myself, as an admirer of Burrough's

more experimental stuff, it seems too plain and simplistic.

 The point was, after all, money.

 

Tom H.

http://www.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759

"A Bear of Very Little Brain"

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:03:58 BST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tom Harberd <T.E.Harberd@UEA.AC.UK>

Subject:      Re: something to SPIN...

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

 

 =20

[snip]

 

I  agree =97 absolutely absurd! I had a graduate (500) level

Literature =

instructor at Ohio State University tell our Contemporary

American =

literature class (1950 to present), Ken Kesey hadn't yet

ingested LSD or =

any hallucinogenic substance prior to writing "One Flew Over

the =

Cuckoo's Nest!" Dr. Weatherford insisted, "No writer could

write such =

prose while high." The quarter a prior, I had just finished

Thompson's, =

"Hells Angels," "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas," and Wolf's

"Electric =

Kool Aid Acid Test"

 

And the strange thing?  That it says in the Electric Cool

Aid Acid Test that Kesey saw parts of the book (Cuckoo's

Nest) while on acid, articularly the visions that Chief has

of faces in the fog.  It says something about Kesey seeing

these faces from time to time, and one in particular

gradually got clearer and clearer: the Indian Chief.

 

Tom H.

http://www.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759

"To Know and be Not Knowing"

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:27:24 -0400

Reply-To:     Neil Hennessy <nhenness@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Neil Hennessy <nhenness@UNDERGRAD.MATH.UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Barrry Miles' response to SPIN

In-Reply-To:  <970919163934_-28729512@emout16.mail.aol.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

I just wanted to applaud Barry Miles for his letter to the editors of

SPIN. Thankfully someone with clout is taking on the task of trying to set

some of those unfounded allegations straight.

 

Neil

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:54:06 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Neil Hennessy <nhenness@UNDERGRAD.MATH.UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Burroughs on Journalism

MIME-Version: 1.0

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In the light of the recent debate about journalism, editorials, and

slanderous garbage that appears in magazines and newspapers these days,

here's WSB on the rags:

 

"Journalism is closer to the magical origin of writing than most fiction.

That is, at least a few operators in this area-- people like the late

Hearst and Henry Luce-- certainly quite clearly and consciously saw

journalism as a magical operation designed to bring about certain effects.

And the technology is the technology of magic: in the case of newspapers

and magazines, mostly black magic. They stick pins in someone's image and

then show that image to millions of people." The Adding Machine, pg. 48

 

The rest of the essay is worth reading as well. He talks about how easy it

is to insert false information and events that never occured-- both

practiced by Dennis Cooper, incidentally, as my post on the details of his

article demonstrated. Burroughs was a veteran of bad press, and I mean bad

in the sense of the negative light in which he was thrown, and in the

absence of integrity in the journalist involved.

 

Whether someone considers themselves a journalist or an editorial writer,

I believe they should have a commitment to themselves and their readers to

at least try to get the facts straight, and not egregiously misrepresent

their subject. Cooper did neither. As a student, if I ever handed in a

paper as poorly researched as Mr. Cooper's piece, I would be failed, and

probably advised to find another faculty. Why should that integrity be a

part of my scholastic endeavour where the paper would only be read by two

people (me and the prof), but not for someone writing for a readership as

wide as SPIN's?

 

I guess this is partially adressed to James Stauffer: I am bewildered by

your defense of Cooper when it is perfectly obvious he is either guilty of

outright lying, or at the very least of not doing his homework.

 

Neil

 

PS In the rest of the Burroughs essay I quoted (Ten Years and a Billion

Dollars), we find out that the character of Mr. Hart-- the man who will

not permit the word DEATH to be uttered in his presence-- is in fact based

on William Randolph Hearst. Nice to find out these little tidbits here and

there, much like in Patricia's post about the old man by the river, as he

appears in The Western Lands.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:54:37 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: october's Cover of the Month and Web Page Update!

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 07:39 AM 9/22/97 +0000, you wrote:

>loved it, paul. mc

>

My pleasure Marie and all at Beat-L, please send in more cover scans!Thanks,

Paul of TKQ...

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 09:33:39 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Burroughs on Journalism

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Neil

 

Had no intention of defending Cooper.  Apologize for the

misunderstanding.

 

J. Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:57:06 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      bardo what was said

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Two additional notes, Sue Brossiau, (Divid Ohles' wife), mentioned that

the fire cage was one that wayne and William had made for a bardo they

held for Allen G.

Also I had mis heard who the second letter was from that james read at

the bardo; for a little illumination here is approximately what james

said.

James Grauerholz:  remarks at William's Bardo Burn, 9/20/97

 

 

 

Why are we here?

 

Each and every one of us has a different answer to that question, and we

can

meditate on those reasons while we take part in this event tonight.

 

It has something to do with our hosts, Wayne and Carol, and I know we

all

thank them for making this gathering possible.

 

It has something to do with Lawrence, our community - not the

"metropolis" of

Lawrence, frankly - but the community that we found when we came here,

however many years ago we came here ... the community that we built

here,

over the years that we have been here ... the community that we share,

now,

while we are still here.

 

And it has something to do with William Burroughs.  William lived here

for

sixteen years, longer than he lived in any other place in his life.

 

Every time William went out in the town, he always ran into friends; he

had

friends here, everywhere he went.

 

And every time he travelled far away, he always came home to Lawrence.

 

Lawrence was William's home, his final home.  He lived here, he lived

well

here, and he died here.

 

And we all miss him very much.

 

Now, I don't know how many of us are Buddhists, and I'm pretty sure

there are

no more than one or two ancient Egyptians here tonight, but I'd like to

say a

few words about their belief systems concerning life, and death, and

life

after death.

 

The ancient Egyptians postulated seven souls - as William's voice will

be

explaining for us, in a moment ... three of those souls split, at the

moment

of the death, the other four remain with the subject, to take their

chances

with him in the Land of the Dead.  But first he or she must cross the

Duad,

the River of Shit, all the filth and hatred and despair of all human

history

- then, on the other side, lay down the body, the Sekhu, the Remains,

and

journey through the Land of the Dead, encountering souls from your own

life

who have gone before - through a thousand challenges and trials, you try

to

make your way to the Western Lands ...

 

The Buddhist belief (I can't do this justice right now, but this is

basically

it) is that your soul, more or less, is reborn again and again, into new

lives.  Ideally, you would not be reborn, but escape the wheel and of

death

and rebirth, into nirvana; but the highest enlightened ones consciously

vow

to be reborn as many times as it takes for all sentient beings to become

enlightened, they sacrifice their opening to nirvana - that is the

boddhisattva vow.

 

The idea is that after physical death, the soul wanders through a spirit

region known as the Bardo, re-living past experiences, facing images

left

over from other lives, other karma - and then, usually after about seven

weeks, is re-born - attracted to a male and female coupling, and born

again,

to suffer again.

 

We are gathered here tonight to perform a ceremony that is ancient and

universal - the burning of objects and images associated with the

departed,

to symbolize the dissolution of the physical body and its intermixture

with

all other elements - for example, Native Americans, it was pointed out

to me

tonight, burn the dead person's belongings immediately after death ...

 

Now if I haven't waited too late and I can still read this, I'm going to

read

you some short remarks sent here by David Ohle, and by John Giorno:

 

 

First, from David Ohle:

 

 

Sendoff Message to the Soul of Bill

 

Well now, Bill.  They say you've done your Bardo time, and now your SOUL

is

fixing to head off somewhere.

 

But look here, baby.  We're gonna miss that creaky old soft machine

you've

been walking around in these eight score and three.  We got used to it,

you

know.  Those wise and witty things it said.  And wrote.  And it must

have

pumped fifteen tons of lead into the world.

 

I don't know about souls, my dear.  But if you have one (and I know you

believed you did), then let's give it the giddyup 'n' go.  Shoo!

Everybody

say it, "Shoo!  Giddyup!  Git on, Bill's soul!"

 

And take care crossin' that River of Shit.

 

Sorry I ain't there today, my dear, but I figure when you're talking

soul

travel, what the fuck is a few thousand miles?  I'm looking toward

Kansas

right now.  I see something.

 

 

And this from John Giorno, and I'll try to approximate his delivery:

 

 

You generated

 

enough compassion

 

to fill the world,

 

and now,

 

resting in

 

great equanimity,

 

you have accomplished

 

great clarity

 

and great bliss,

 

and the vast empty

 

expanse

 

of Primordially pure

 

Wisdom Mind.

 

 

 

all right.

 

why are we here?

 

I mean, in the larger sense ...

 

William had a very definite answer to that question:

 

We are   Here   to    Go.

 

 

 

Okay, let's burn it.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:10:14 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: bardo what was said

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thank you patricia, for letting me participate via this modem linked to so

many other pecarious means of communication. i wish i had been there, but

since i wasn't you have given me the greatests of gifts, the transcription

of what happened and the validation of life itself within the bardo passing

of wsb.

mc

 

Patricia Elliott wrote:

 

> Two additional notes, Sue Brossiau, (Divid Ohles' wife), mentioned that

> the fire cage was one that wayne and William had made for a bardo they

> held for Allen G.

> Also I had mis heard who the second letter was from that james read at

> the bardo; for a little illumination here is approximately what james

> said.

> James Grauerholz:  remarks at William's Bardo Burn, 9/20/97

>

> Why are we here?

>

> Each and every one of us has a different answer to that question, and we

> can

> meditate on those reasons while we take part in this event tonight.

>

> It has something to do with our hosts, Wayne and Carol, and I know we

> all

> thank them for making this gathering possible.

>

> It has something to do with Lawrence, our community - not the

> "metropolis" of

> Lawrence, frankly - but the community that we found when we came here,

> however many years ago we came here ... the community that we built

> here,

> over the years that we have been here ... the community that we share,

> now,

> while we are still here.

>

> And it has something to do with William Burroughs.  William lived here

> for

> sixteen years, longer than he lived in any other place in his life.

>

> Every time William went out in the town, he always ran into friends; he

> had

> friends here, everywhere he went.

>

> And every time he travelled far away, he always came home to Lawrence.

>

> Lawrence was William's home, his final home.  He lived here, he lived

> well

> here, and he died here.

>

> And we all miss him very much.

>

> Now, I don't know how many of us are Buddhists, and I'm pretty sure

> there are

> no more than one or two ancient Egyptians here tonight, but I'd like to

> say a

> few words about their belief systems concerning life, and death, and

> life

> after death.

>

> The ancient Egyptians postulated seven souls - as William's voice will

> be

> explaining for us, in a moment ... three of those souls split, at the

> moment

> of the death, the other four remain with the subject, to take their

> chances

> with him in the Land of the Dead.  But first he or she must cross the

> Duad,

> the River of Shit, all the filth and hatred and despair of all human

> history

> - then, on the other side, lay down the body, the Sekhu, the Remains,

> and

> journey through the Land of the Dead, encountering souls from your own

> life

> who have gone before - through a thousand challenges and trials, you try

> to

> make your way to the Western Lands ...

>

> The Buddhist belief (I can't do this justice right now, but this is

> basically

> it) is that your soul, more or less, is reborn again and again, into new

> lives.  Ideally, you would not be reborn, but escape the wheel and of

> death

> and rebirth, into nirvana; but the highest enlightened ones consciously

> vow

> to be reborn as many times as it takes for all sentient beings to become

> enlightened, they sacrifice their opening to nirvana - that is the

> boddhisattva vow.

>

> The idea is that after physical death, the soul wanders through a spirit

> region known as the Bardo, re-living past experiences, facing images

> left

> over from other lives, other karma - and then, usually after about seven

> weeks, is re-born - attracted to a male and female coupling, and born

> again,

> to suffer again.

>

> We are gathered here tonight to perform a ceremony that is ancient and

> universal - the burning of objects and images associated with the

> departed,

> to symbolize the dissolution of the physical body and its intermixture

> with

> all other elements - for example, Native Americans, it was pointed out

> to me

> tonight, burn the dead person's belongings immediately after death ...

>

> Now if I haven't waited too late and I can still read this, I'm going to

> read

> you some short remarks sent here by David Ohle, and by John Giorno:

>

> First, from David Ohle:

>

> Sendoff Message to the Soul of Bill

>

> Well now, Bill.  They say you've done your Bardo time, and now your SOUL

> is

> fixing to head off somewhere.

>

> But look here, baby.  We're gonna miss that creaky old soft machine

> you've

> been walking around in these eight score and three.  We got used to it,

> you

> know.  Those wise and witty things it said.  And wrote.  And it must

> have

> pumped fifteen tons of lead into the world.

>

> I don't know about souls, my dear.  But if you have one (and I know you

> believed you did), then let's give it the giddyup 'n' go.  Shoo!

> Everybody

> say it, "Shoo!  Giddyup!  Git on, Bill's soul!"

>

> And take care crossin' that River of Shit.

>

> Sorry I ain't there today, my dear, but I figure when you're talking

> soul

> travel, what the fuck is a few thousand miles?  I'm looking toward

> Kansas

> right now.  I see something.

>

> And this from John Giorno, and I'll try to approximate his delivery:

>

> You generated

>

> enough compassion

>

> to fill the world,

>

> and now,

>

> resting in

>

> great equanimity,

>

> you have accomplished

>

> great clarity

>

> and great bliss,

>

> and the vast empty

>

> expanse

>

> of Primordially pure

>

> Wisdom Mind.

>

> all right.

>

> why are we here?

>

> I mean, in the larger sense ...

>

> William had a very definite answer to that question:

>

> We are   Here   to    Go.

>

> Okay, let's burn it.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:38:15 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Matthew S Sackmann <msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>

Subject:      Douglas Brinkley and Kerouac (and America)

In-Reply-To:  <3426A362.1BA9@sunflower.com>

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I talked to Professor Brinkley on the phone yesterday.  He is in the

process of editing Jack's road diaries (120 volumes of them!!) and a few

pages will come out in the New Yorker this December.  He is also writing a

biography on Kerouac and finishing his biography on Jimmy Carter.

And he's (probably) going to read at an open-mike down here in New Orleans

that some friends and i are putting together sometime in November.  yay!

 

On the issue of the Beats and Patriotism, I recommend his book, "The Majic

Bus-An American Odyssey."

 

As for my own opinions:  I believe that the Beats were VERY Patriotic, but

they do create their own definition of the word.  They love America.

Hell, Jack's dedication page in _Visions of Cody_ reads, "Dedicated to

America, whatever that is."  They love the land, and they love many of the

people as individuals.  They do not love the government.  Gary Snyder once

said (paraphrasing): "We must  realize that we are all Native

Americans."  Lawrence Ferlinghetti's poetry is full of American images,

i.e. the American Eagle.  There love of America is founded on the original

ideas of the country.  We had a discussion a while a go about how "Howl"

seems to be almost a new "Declaration of Independence."  Their love is

founded on the potential of America-  that orgiastic light.  And as Thomas

Wolfe wrote:

        "I believe we are lost in America, but I do believe we will be

found."

 

The Beats had the same view, but they adopted different methods to help

FIND the real America.  Ginsberg threw himself into the middle of Moloch

and tried to change the American Moloch from the inside.  Kerouac ran away

from Moloch and found America on lonely highways, on mountain tops, in the

smiles of old men.  Burroughs in an even more dramatic way, fled Moloch

America to other countries, attempting to show us from the outside what a

bad thing America has become.

 

-matt

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:06:38 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Neil Hennessy <nhenness@UNDERGRAD.MATH.UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Re: Burroughs on Journalism

In-Reply-To:  <34269DE3.4B77@pacbell.net>

MIME-Version: 1.0

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On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, James Stauffer wrote:

 

> Neil

>

> Had no intention of defending Cooper.  Apologize for the

> misunderstanding.

>

> J. Stauffer

>

 

I in turn apologize for misconstruing your posts.

 

Neil

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:22:15 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mitchell Smith <Praetor77@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Beat Books and Broadsides for Sale

 

I have a list of items, mostly first editions or collectibles, for sale.

Please email me at turtlisle@aol.com if you'd like a copy of the list. Do not

reply to this email address and please do not create list traffic with your

request.

 

Mitchell Smith

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:04:23 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Douglas Brinkley and Kerouac (and America)

 

In a message dated 97-09-22 14:42:06 EDT, you write:

 

<<

 I talked to Professor Brinkley on the phone yesterday.  He is in the

 process of editing Jack's road diaries (120 volumes of them!!) and a few

 pages will come out in the New Yorker this December.  He is also writing a

 biography on Kerouac  >>

 

I understand it's true about the OTR journals, but I'm given to understand

there are not necessarily firm plans for a biography by Brinkley.

 

Apparently there will be a feature story on the subject in Wednesday's

USAToday. Anyway, that's what I hear.

 

diane

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:35:21 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Douglas Brinkley and Kerouac (and America)

Mime-Version: 1.0

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At 04:04 PM 9/22/97 -0400, you wrote:

>In a message dated 97-09-22 14:42:06 EDT, you write:

>

><<

> I talked to Professor Brinkley on the phone yesterday.  He is in the

> process of editing Jack's road diaries (120 volumes of them!!) and a few

> pages will come out in the New Yorker this December.  He is also writing a

> biography on Kerouac  >>

>

>I understand it's true about the OTR journals, but I'm given to understand

>there are not necessarily firm plans for a biography by Brinkley.

>

>Apparently there will be a feature story on the subject in Wednesday's

>USAToday. Anyway, that's what I hear.

>

>diane

>

There are definite plans for this biography which will not see the light of

day for at least two or three years. He hasn't even started it yet. Paul...

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:37:18 +0000

Reply-To:     randyr@southeast.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Comments:     Authenticated sender is <randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>

From:         randy royal <randyr@MAILHUB.JAXNET.COM>

Subject:      Re: Douglas Brinkley and Kerouac (and America)

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in ferlinghetti's poem autobiography (too long for me to type, but

here's an excerpt):

".....i am an american.

i was an american boy.

i read the american boy maazine

and became a boy scout in the suburbs.

i thought i was tom sawyer

catching crayfish in the bronx

and imagining the mississippi...

i had an unhappy childhood

i saw lindberg land.

i looked homeward

and saw no angel.

i got caught stealing pencils

from the five and ten cent store

the same month i made eagle scout..."

> Americans."  Lawrence Ferlinghetti's poetry is full of American images,

> i.e. the American Eagle.  There love of America is founded on the original

> ideas of the country.  We had a discussion a while a go about how "Howl"

 

> -matt

randy

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:37:44 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         der doc <der_doc@ROCKETMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: SPIN

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

 

Marlene,

 

I myself am a coffeehouse kid.  (Don't let the Dr. fool you, I am a

Gen X'er, though I loathe the term.)  I spend a great deal of my time

in public in coffeehouses.  My band usually plays in coffeehouses.  My

life outside of school and my fiance' is coffeehouses.  The Wine of

the Bean is instilled in my very soul.

   I was making a comment on what I have seen happen to many, many

people, myself among them.  The indie-rock "cool as long as unpopular"

ideal.  It's rampant amongst my friends and other kids I see around

the coffehouses of the world.  I wasn't meaning it to reflect on

cafe's, just the indie rock kids that hang out in them.

 

Dr, Adam J Muszkiewicz

 

 

===

visit my web site, The Beat(en) Regeneration

(http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6131)

for info on the Beat, Beatnik and Neo-Beat subcultures

 

 

_____________________________________________________________________

Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 08:48:32 +1100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Duncan Gray <duncang@ENTO.CSIRO.AU>

Subject:      N.Y. TIMES -  last Suicide review

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

This was from the N.Y. TIMES:

 

 

 

          June 20, 1997

 

          A Young Neal Cassady, On the Road and Off

 

          --------------------------------------------------------

          Forum

        * Join a Discussion on Movies

          --------------------------------------------------------

 

          By STEPHEN HOLDEN

 

          [Y] ou didn't have to dye your hair green, pierce your

              tongue and wear bizarre eye makeup to stand out as a

          flaming rebel in the late 1940s. All you had to do was

          chain-smoke, play pool, listen to be-bop and break

          girls' hearts.

 

          That's the portrait of the 20-year-old Neal Cassady

          (flashily played by the newcomer Thomas Jane) that

          emerges in Stephen Kay's snazzy-looking but slight film,

          "The Last Time I Committed Suicide."

 

          At 20, the man who became a guiding light of the Beat

          Generation, inspiring Jack Kerouac's "On the Road" and

          later joining Ken Kesey's psychedelic troupe the Merry

          Pranksters, is portrayed as a hunky mixed-up kid with

          too many hormones roiling around in his body.

 

          The movie is based on a letter that the young Cassady

          wrote to Kerouac when Cassady was living in Denver and

          working the night shift at a Goodyear Tire factory. The

          fragments of the letter heard over the soundtrack

          suggest a fevered, semi-coherent stream-of-consciousness

          running on a jazzy, hopped-up rhythm that became a

          hallmark of Beat literature.

 

          Kay has made that rhythm the visual pulse of his debut

          feature film. Beyond recounting incidents in Cassady's

          youth, the movie, whose soundtrack is drenched in

          be-bop, aspires to be an impressionistic canvas of

          America when the country, still dewy-eyed with postwar

          optimism, was jumping out of its collective skin.

 

          Almost every shot is drenched in rich period detail so

          acute it has a surreal edge. When Cassady visits an

          office where one of his girlfriends works as a typist,

          the place is a hushed dimly lit cathedral to capitalism

          in which elaborately coiffed secretaries sit in rigid

          formation behind giant manual typewriters. Later, when

          Cassady and some friends steal a bright red convertible

          for a joy ride, the image of the cherry-red car jouncing

          through a field with snowcapped mountains in the

          background has the nostalgic tug of a Saturday Evening

          Post cover illustration.

 

          When not creating memorable visual tableaux, the film

          observes Neal's frenetic love life as he zigzags between

          the sad-eyed, suicidal Joan (Claire Forlani) and Cherry

          Mary (Gretchen Mol), a sexually precocious teen-ager who

          suggests the adolescent Shirley Temple gone bad. In his

          spare time, Neal hangs out at a pool hall, drinking

          beers with Harry, a lowlife crony who is 12 years his

          senior.

 

          Keanu Reeves, looking bloated and bleary-eyed, gives

          Harry a woozy affability. Also popping up from time to

          time is a skinny, spectacled friend named Ben (Adrien

          Brody), who has a big crush on Neal and who appears to

          be modeled after the young Allen Ginsberg.

 

          As effectively as it evokes the late 1940s, "The Last

          Time I Committed Suicide" has little dramatic momentum.

          Although the film tries to suggest a wrenching inner

          conflict between Neal's wanderlust and his fantasy of a

          picture-perfect bourgeois life (he has recurrent dreams

          of a house with a picket fence), there is clearly no

          contest. If the movie is dramatically inert, it has the

          charm of a lovingly assembled personal scrapbook. It's

          clear in every frame of the film how strongly Kay

          identifies with his legendary subject.

 

          PRODUCTION NOTES:

 

          'THE LAST TIME I COMMITTED SUICIDE'

 

          With: Thomas Jane (Neal Cassady), Keanu Reeves (Harry),

          Adrien Brody (Ben), Claire Forlani (Joan) and Gretchen

          Mol (Cherry Mary). Written and directed by Stephen Kay;

          based on a letter written by Neal Cassady to Jack

          Kerouac; director of photography, Bobby Bukowski; edited

          by Dorian Harris; music by Tyler Bates; production

          designer, Amy Ancona; produced by Edward Bates and

          Louise Rosner; released by Kushner-Locke Company, Roxie

          Releasing and Tapestry Films.

 

          Running time: 95 minutes. This film is rated R.

 

            Home | Sections | Contents | Search | Forums | Help

 

                 Copyright 1997 The New York Times Company

------------------------------------------------------------------.o0

Duncan Gray

Stored Grain Research Laboratory

CSIRO Entomology, GPO Box 1700, Canberra ACT 2601

Ph. (06) 246 4178  Fax (06) 246 4202

----------------------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:02:16 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         John J Dorfner <Jjdorfner@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Douglas Brinkley and Kerouac (and America)

 

liked and post matt...and agree with you completely.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:27:21 -0700

Reply-To:     mike@buchenroth.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael L. Buchenroth" <mike@BUCHENROTH.COM>

Organization: Buchenroth Publishing Company

Subject:      Re: bardo what was said

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Patricia Elliott:

I made a sort of animated gif using the Wm S Burroughs image you posted

onto Beat-L a few weeks ago. I also mentioned you and copied one of your

Beat-L posts in the description of this image on my CELM site.

I always enjoy reading your posts at:

***

http://www.buchenroth.com/animwsb.gif

***

-Mike

 

Charles sent me photos from Lawrence KS.

-Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:02:36 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: bardo what was said

Comments: To: mike@buchenroth.com

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Michael L. Buchenroth wrote:

>

> Patricia Elliott:

> I made a sort of animated gif using the Wm S Burroughs image you posted

> onto Beat-L a few weeks ago. I also mentioned you and copied one of your

> Beat-L posts in the description of this image on my CELM site.

> I always enjoy reading your posts at:

> ***

> http://www.buchenroth.com/animwsb.gif

> ***

> -Mike

>

> Charles sent me photos from Lawrence KS.

> -Mike

Mike, what a fun trip i just had, visited both sites.  The magazine is

fine.  I am truely honored to have my piece "bardo" presented.  James

took the picture i posted, the one i call wsb good. I loved what you did

with it.  The material on Plymell is just fascinating. You presented a

wealth of information on not just charles but managed to present a

fabric and context, of time and people with the biographical information

on Charles. I believe and agree with you, that Charles is a great man, a

great writer.  Do you Know of David Ohle's work.  I have always thought

him to be one of the best writers, up there .  Some of his works are the

"City Moon", Motor man" and "Mortified Man"  "Chili Hearts".  When david

gets back from Eugene I will ask permission to scan some of his work and

share it with you.

Thanks again.

p

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:11:55 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jenn Fedor <Tread37@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Death stalking around my door/long/true/personal

 

That was beauitiful, marlene!  i love you!

 

-jenn fedor

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:46:18 -0400

Reply-To:     atrigili@lynx.dac.neu.edu

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tony Trigilio <atrigili@LYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU>

Organization: Northeastern University

Subject:      Re: backSPIN & envy

MIME-Version: 1.0

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James--

 

Thanks for the thoughtful posting.  I agree most of all that it's

unproductive to attack those who dislike our favorite artists and

thinkers purely on the basis that . . . they don't like the same artists

and thinkers we might like:

 

> I think that is what bothers me about this thread.  The assumption that

> if someone doesn't like the guys we like they aren't just wrong,  or

> have different tastes but lying, envious duplicitous bastards.  It's the

> flip side of what the "fascists" are always supposed to be doing--simply

> dismissing anything which challenges their assumptions because they

> don't like the life style.

 

Best of all, I liked your post because it caught me in a kind of

laziness--when I said of George Will's diatribe against AG:  "Repressed

envy usually simmers around these kind of pieces, and Will's obit in

particular is no exception."  A subjective point that's so tough to

prove that I should have said, "As a reader, I feel like repressed envy

usually simmers, etc." or "Repressed envy seems to simmer, etc."  Words

matter; ideas have consequences.  Readers can only respond to what you

wrote, not what you wanted to write or thought you were writing.

 

I agree that it seems reasonable to think that Podhoretz's envied

Ginsberg's fame and readership, as you said in your posting.  But in the

essay he actually pursues the envy further.  And I'm fascinated that he

elaborates on his envy--that he admits a rich psychological history to

his battle with AG, a history many of us could suspect but that would be

very difficult to prove without an impossibly dense knowledge of

Podhoretz's inner life.

 

In the essay, Podhoretz admits that he resented AG's lifestyle.  He says

that his anti-Beat writing was partly a result of complaints he had

about the pressures of his own life.  On page 32, he writes:  "At the

age of twenty-six, the year *Howl and Other Poems* was published, I had

married a woman with two very small children, thereby assuming

responsiblity for an entire family at one stroke; and by the time 'The

Know-Nothing Bohemians' appeared in 1958, a third child had come along

(with a fourth to follow in due course).  To support this growing

family, I relied on three different sources of income--a full-time job

as an editor, free-lance writing at night and on weekends, and lecture

engagements whenever I could get them.  Inevitably, then, and along with

everything else, it was myself I was defending in fighting the Beats."

 

Podhoretz later agrees with Ginsberg's 1987 assessment that their

competing visions actually were "provocative and interesting" to the

other (actual quote from 1987 interview is on p. 37).  Podhoretz asks on

p. 32, "How could it [AG's vision] not have been ["provocative and

interesting"]?  As against the law-abiding life I had chosen of a steady

job and marriage and children, he conjured up a world of complete

freedom from the limits imposed by such grim responsibilities.  It was a

world that promised endless erotic possibility together with the

excitements of an expanded consciousness constantly open to new

dimensions of being:  more adventure, more sex, more intensity, more

*life*."

 

I would think that the best description of envy I'd get in the article

would be envy of fame/influence/readership.  Yet the self-exposure and

honesty in the article was a surprise (I think again of Podhoretez's

conclusion, which I quoted in the posting a few weeks ago: "I still

cannot bring myself to forgive *him* [AG], not even now that he is

dead").  I'm glad this thread brought me back to the article.

 

Tony

 

****************************************************

"I think of people's faces and stay away from coffee.

I listen to my radio and I go to bed early, too.  There's

nothing like sleep to make you feel good the next day.

And I also eat good.  When I feel tense and nervous

in the morning, I go to Ruby's and have a good breakfast.

The food gives me the energy to think more positive

thoughts."

--Henry Turner

****************************************************

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 03:45:12 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Last time I committed suicide, which was before this time

 

In a message dated 97-09-19 17:04:03 EDT, you write:

 

<< By the way, I really enjoyed the movie. I could be wrong, but i really

hope that Keanu wasn't playing JK, that would be a serious casting mistake.

Thanks. >>

 

Keanu was playing a character named Harry. Definitely not suppose to be

Kerouac nor drawn on Kerouac. Neal was called Neal in the movie. The movie

was based on a letter that Neal Cassady wrote to Kerouac, written in 1950.

The letter played a major influence on Kerouac's writings with it's wild

madcap recounting of the events.

 

The movie had a very short run in the theaters, probably just the major

cities, but it is out on video.

 

Attila

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:11:30 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Mime format Re: october's Cover... re:patriots

In-Reply-To:  <342504E5.D0524C08@mail.telepac.pt>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 11.28 21/09/97 +0000,

DuarteMoniz <DuarteMoniz@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT> wrote:

>Bill Gargan wrote:

>

>> As most of you on the list have noticed, mime format and photographs

>> do

>> not travel well on Beat-l.  It might be better to mount such files on

>> a

>> web page and provide listmembers with the url so t hat they can

>> download

>> them to their hard drives and read them with their browers.

>

>

>Can't agree with you. It may desencourage people to send photos and

>photos are great to see and rest awhile from all the texts. It was very

>nice to see some of you some time back.I also appreciate the posts with

>full articles that appear in the US media concerning the beats. It's the

>

>only way we (not residents in the USA) can have access to those prints.

>I am enjoying very much  being with you all, althought you didn't notice

>my presence up until now.

>

>Duarte Moniz

>Portugal

>

Duarte Moniz,

 

I agree totally with, you, the pics travel fine attached in email,

and i you fon't  own a www space it's impossible to post pictures, another

problem was the native characters (as noted by the chinese friend

some post ago, and by myself again) that's it would be nice to be

posted (i.e. eastern coutry, or far eastern country,...),

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

 

        please who's the

        person in charge of

        the "cover" project?

        may he blackchanell

        to me, i'm working

        on the JK it 1967 poket

        cover of "Sulla Strada" (OTR)

        also i've the cover of

        1980 JK "On the Road"

        i dunno if it's a rarity

        someone let me know if i

        can start to scan...

**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**

 

at the moment i italy the word "patriot" is referred to

the people like "venetian patriots" who wish the secessionism

from the italy, and have their symbol in the bell tower in

S.Marco Square in Venice, the "patriots" want that Venetian

Lands becom independent from the rest of Italy (independent

movement),

***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-

 

saluti cari,

Rinaldo.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 07:22:26 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Mime format Re: october's Cover... re:patriots

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Hi Rinaldo, I am posting a different cover each month. If you have one I

will use it for November but will probably post it sooner. You can send it

as an attachment to this address. Thanks...you will see it posted at The

Kerouac Quarterly Web Page...Paul...

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 07:30:24 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: bardo what was said

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

michael b: i agree with patricia, the giff is wonderful the picture of wsb

evokes him in all third dimensions and beyond.

i'm looking for patricia's piece you mention below, as well as the site on

ch. Plymell.

mc

 

Patricia Elliott wrote:

 

> Michael L. Buchenroth wrote:

> >

> > Patricia Elliott:

> > I made a sort of animated gif using the Wm S Burroughs image you posted

> > onto Beat-L a few weeks ago. I also mentioned you and copied one of your

> > Beat-L posts in the description of this image on my CELM site.

> > I always enjoy reading your posts at:

> > ***

> > http://www.buchenroth.com/animwsb.gif

> > ***

> > -Mike

> >

> > Charles sent me photos from Lawrence KS.

> > -Mike

> Mike, what a fun trip i just had, visited both sites.  The magazine is

> fine.  I am truely honored to have my piece "bardo" presented.  James

> took the picture i posted, the one i call wsb good. I loved what you did

> with it.  The material on Plymell is just fascinating. You presented a

> wealth of information on not just charles but managed to present a

> fabric and context, of time and people with the biographical information

> on Charles. I believe and agree with you, that Charles is a great man, a

> great writer.  Do you Know of David Ohle's work.  I have always thought

> him to be one of the best writers, up there .  Some of his works are the

> "City Moon", Motor man" and "Mortified Man"  "Chili Hearts".  When david

> gets back from Eugene I will ask permission to scan some of his work and

> share it with you.

> Thanks again.

> p

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 08:01:38 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Mime format Re: october's Cover... re:patriots

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

There is nothing wrong with mimes except they must be

decoded with uudecode.  Why not send binaries, which can

be decoded easily.

 

Mike Rice

 

At 12:11 PM 9/23/97 +0200, you wrote:

>At 11.28 21/09/97 +0000,

>DuarteMoniz <DuarteMoniz@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT> wrote:

>>Bill Gargan wrote:

>>

>>> As most of you on the list have noticed, mime format and photographs

>>> do

>>> not travel well on Beat-l.  It might be better to mount such files on

>>> a

>>> web page and provide listmembers with the url so t hat they can

>>> download

>>> them to their hard drives and read them with their browers.

>>

>>

>>Can't agree with you. It may desencourage people to send photos and

>>photos are great to see and rest awhile from all the texts. It was very

>>nice to see some of you some time back.I also appreciate the posts with

>>full articles that appear in the US media concerning the beats. It's the

>>

>>only way we (not residents in the USA) can have access to those prints.

>>I am enjoying very much  being with you all, althought you didn't notice

>>my presence up until now.

>>

>>Duarte Moniz

>>Portugal

>>

>Duarte Moniz,

>

>I agree totally with, you, the pics travel fine attached in email,

>and i you fon't  own a www space it's impossible to post pictures, another

>problem was the native characters (as noted by the chinese friend

>some post ago, and by myself again) that's it would be nice to be

>posted (i.e. eastern coutry, or far eastern country,...),

>*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

>

>        please who's the

>        person in charge of

>        the "cover" project?

>        may he blackchanell

>        to me, i'm working

>        on the JK it 1967 poket

>        cover of "Sulla Strada" (OTR)

>        also i've the cover of

>        1980 JK "On the Road"

>        i dunno if it's a rarity

>        someone let me know if i

>        can start to scan...

>**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**

>

>at the moment i italy the word "patriot" is referred to

>the people like "venetian patriots" who wish the secessionism

>from the italy, and have their symbol in the bell tower in

>S.Marco Square in Venice, the "patriots" want that Venetian

>Lands becom independent from the rest of Italy (independent

>movement),

>***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-

>

>saluti cari,

>Rinaldo.

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 08:03:21 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: bardo  message

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Patricia Elliott wrote:

>

> All week  long I didn't want to go.  I felt swept with anxiety and

> decided about 7 times I wouldn't go.

 

<reluctant snip>

 

>         I feel when William first died, his spirit was there in the room with

 his body, it was comforting. Then I felt his spirit whirling around the world,

 I almost know he went to Tangiers for a moment.  I feel he is gone.  we have

 lots to do now.

> > Patricia

 

The energy from the Kaw connections slid through the Vortex to my

electromagnetic seven souls as i investigated Denver and Boulder wearing

my black William's memory hat (which i didn't burn) and wandered here

and there (full report sometime this week).

 

I think that it is hilarious that the number 7 pops up in the number of

times you weren't going to go.  PERFECT!  I imagine it was the fourth

decision not to go which was the most traumatic.  I thought of you and

all the Lawrence folks i've met many times as i wandered and especially

connected with these energies wandering through Naropa early Saturday

afternoon.  The William has been here energy was overpoweringly sweet at

times.  In the Naropa bookstore i saw William picture postcards and

considered buying one to burn but the idea of open fires in Boulder

didn't sound prudent - hell you almost get arrested for having a lit

cigarette there.

 

Your last line is wise.

 

david rhaesa

back in salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:01:57 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Hemenway . Mark" <MHemenway@DRC.COM>

Subject:      Re: Looking forward to participating in group

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

In the words of the immortal beatnik, Maynard G. Krebbs.... "WoooORRRK?"

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 08:52:45 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Eric Lytle <e.lytle@SARCOS.COM>

Subject:      Still SPINning ...

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

        I know this thread is just about played out,  but did anyone

else notice a book review of Dennis Cooper's latest work in

Salonmagazine.com on Friday.  I just checked the site and it has been

updated since last week.  You can still find the page at

 

http:/www.salonmagazine.com/sept97/sneaks/sneak970919.html     (sorry

it's so long)

 

        The interesting part is that the reviewer discussed how

misunderstood and disliked Cooper is,  and topped it off by comparing

him to wsb.  How ironic...

 

-E

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:32:58 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Dufour <dufour@ULISSE.IT>

Subject:      Beat book covers

Comments: To: BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

I'm very interested in seeing the original covers of the U.S. editions of

AG, JK, WSB most important books, can anyone tell me where to find these in

a website or in jpeg (or equivalent) format ?

 

Ciao!

 

Francesco

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:15:49 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Eric Lytle <e.lytle@SARCOS.COM>

Subject:      Re: Still SPINning ...

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Doh!  I don't think that worked.

 

I apparently flubbed the address.  If you go to Salonmagazine.com and

click on Books,  you will see Dennis Cooper's review under friday's

date.  This reviewer has called Cooper a suitable torch bearer for the

late great wsb.

 

-E

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:35:33 -0400

Reply-To:     Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      Re: mass suicide postings

Comments: To: "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>

In-Reply-To:  <199709220211.WAA18738@owl.INS.CWRU.Edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Sun, 21 Sep 1997, Diane M. Homza wrote:

 

> Question: (since this is one of the recent threads, anyway)

>

> when exactly did The Last Time I Commited Suicide come out?  I've been

> assuming that it's already available on video, but in the neighborhood

> vidoe store tonite I saw a poster hanging underneath the "coming soon"

> sign, & the poster was for LTICS, so now I'm confused.

 

Just rented & watched it tonight. I got it at Hollywood video, and someone

else said it was out at Blockbuster, so maybe the evil corporate chains got

it first.

 

My thoughts on the film: Well, it had nice crisp late-90s cinematography,

the colorful neons and rain atmospherics etc reminding me of _Shine_. I

thought that the guy who portrayed Neal got his moves down quite well, and

some of the camera pans on him when he was going off excitedly talking were

pretty effective. I didn't like the sets -- it looked too much like a 90s

"verison" of the late 40s/early 50s, kind of like how _Grease_ or _Heart

Beat_ to me is more about the 70s than the 50s. Everyone (esp. Neal) looked

more like a 90210 extra rather than someone from the past -- they never get

this right in film! Good soundtrack and "cute" story though -- if _Heart

Beat_ was a 4 then this one's a 6.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:29:55 GMT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Chris Dumond <cmdumond@EHC.EDU>

Subject:      Levis

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Have you folks seen the Levi's commercial mentioning Jack and Charley Parker?

 

There's an icecream man and a bunch of kids crowded around and before he

gives them their icecream, they have to answer his questions.  The first boy

comes up and the man asks, "Who was Jack Kerouac?"  The boy replies, "On The

Road."  The next kid comes up and the man asks, "Who was birdland named

after?" The boy replies, "Charley Parker."  Then the icecream man quickly

asks, "Tenor or Alto?" and the first boy whispers in the other's ear.  I

forget whether Bird played Tenor or Alto (jesus, what kind of Kerouac-Junkie

am I?) but you all get the point.  I thought it was a damn good commercial!

 

ALSO... A couple of months ago I was at a Lyle Lovett show where he opened

up with a song singing, "who remembers Jack Kerouac?"  It was a beautiful

song, and I'd never heard it before.  Any other Lyle fans wanna take a stab??

 

 

Chris

Visit Chris's Page at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/2124

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:42:29 -0400

Reply-To:     "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>

Subject:      Re: N.Y. TIMES -  last Suicide review

 

Reply to message from duncang@ENTO.CSIRO.AU of Mon, 22 Sep

>

>

>          PRODUCTION NOTES:

>

>          'THE LAST TIME I COMMITTED SUICIDE'

>

>          With: Thomas Jane (Neal Cassady), Keanu Reeves (Harry),

>          Adrien Brody (Ben), Claire Forlani (Joan) and Gretchen

>          Mol (Cherry Mary). Written and directed by Stephen Kay;

>          based on a letter written by Neal Cassady to Jack

>          Kerouac; director of photography, Bobby Bukowski; edited

>          by Dorian Harris; music by Tyler Bates; production

>          designer, Amy Ancona; produced by Edward Bates and

>          Louise Rosner; released by Kushner-Locke Company, Roxie

>          Releasing and Tapestry Films.

>

 

 

Does anyone know if this Stephen Kay is a Beat enthusiast?  It makes me

wonder how he happened upon this project...I don't think the letter is much

known outside of the Beat Enthusiast realm.  Oh, cure my wonderings,

someone!  (and I greatly apologize if this has been discussed before & I

just don't pay attention & the colelctive compnay decides to exile me

from posting anymore)

 

Diane. (H)

 

--

I should have loved a thunderbird instead.                    --Sylvia Plath

 

Diane M. Homza                                   ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:19:42 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Matthew S Sackmann <msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Douglas Brinkley and Kerouac (and America)

In-Reply-To:  <970922155800_1630061747@emout11.mail.aol.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, Diane De Rooy wrote:

 

> In a message dated 97-09-22 14:42:06 EDT, you write:

>

> <<

>  I talked to Professor Brinkley on the phone yesterday.  He is in the

>  process of editing Jack's road diaries (120 volumes of them!!) and a few

>  pages will come out in the New Yorker this December.  He is also writing a

>  biography on Kerouac  >>

>

> I understand it's true about the OTR journals, but I'm given to understand

> there are not necessarily firm plans for a biography by Brinkley.

>

> Apparently there will be a feature story on the subject in Wednesday's

> USAToday. Anyway, that's what I hear.

>

> diane

>

Well, that's what the man said.

 

-matt

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:32:56 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      A week of white noise

Comments: cc: "Beach@qconline.com" <Beach@qconline.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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i remember once when my first major mentor of sorts at the University of

Kansas was being honored for some thing or another and the speaker said

to really know a person check out the names of the books in their

personal library and then preceded to humorously interpret the

connections between many of his book titles.  I had two thoughts.  For

my generation it would probably be more fitting to look at their music

collections AND that i would purposely buy books to put in my shelves to

throw people off the trail!!!!!  My copy of Hints From Heloise is a

prized example of this type of book!  Rod is a master of such a

strategy.  Someday some of you may get the honor of witnessing his

books!!!!

 

So i decided a week ago after Rod left from a visit and had loaned me a

huge collection of cd's to catalogue the "white noise" in my apartment

#23 (isn't that number somehow significant?).  This is "a week of White

Noise!:

 

Bob Dylan-Unplugged; George Clinton Greatest Funkin Hits; The Best of

Melanie; William S. Burroughs + Gus Van Sant - The Elvis of Letters;

Breakthrough in the Grey Room - William S. Burroughs; Holy Soul Jelly

Roll, Poems and Songs 1949-1993 - Vol.1 MOLOCH!; The Jewish Experience,

Chanukkah - the western wind narrated by Theodore Bikel; Call Me

Burroughs - WSB; Western Movie Themes from Cint Eastwood Movies; Voices

of Forgotten Worlds - Traditional Music of Indigenous People 2 cds; In

Their Own Voices: A Century of Recorded Poetry, Volumes 3 and 4; Jack

Kerouac on the Beat Generation; The Essence of Thelonius Monk; William

S. Burroughs - Dead City Radio; Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits Volume 3;

CHANGES - Native American Flute Music - R. Carlos Nakai; Jack Kerouac -

Blues and Haikus featuring Al Cohn and Zoot Sims; Holy Soul Jelly Roll,

Poems and Songs 1949-1993 - Vol.2 CAW! CAW!; The Jewish Experience -

Passover the western wind narrated by Theodore Bickel; The Best of the

Grateful Dead - Skeletons from the Closet; Kerouac - Kicks Joy

Darkness;  Pink Floyd - THE WALL; Holy Soul Jelly Roll Poems and Songs

1949-1993 Vol. 3: AH! ;  In Their Own Voices A Century of Recorded

Poetry Volumes one and two; Captain Beefheart and his Magic Band - Safe

as Milk (i bought this during the week and so i actually listened to it

between every cd from here to the end); Leonard Cohen - I'm Your Man;

Bruce Cockburn - The Charity of the Night; Jack Kerouac Steve Allen -

Poetry of the Beat Generation; William S. Burroughs Kurt Cobain - the

"Priest" they called him; Outback - Baka; Yellowjackets - Like a River;

Eric Clapton Timepieces Vol.2 'Live in the Seventies'; John Lennon -

Live in New York City.

 

I'm currently listening as i type to the white noise of: Kenya &

Tanzania - Witchcraft and Ritual Music.  Next up is Holy Soul Jelly Roll

vol.4.....

 

If anyone can find a coherent string or thread winding through these

noises i'd sure appreciate it.  Have a therapist appointment tomorrow

afternoon and she always wants to know how i've been.  A two or three

word synthesis of these sounds would be a fun thing to throw at Wendy.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:55:45 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: bardo  message

Comments: To: SSASN@aol.com

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Several people have worried what was burned. here is my response.

i clipped one question.  Which is not a bad question, it is a legitamate

one.

 

I hope that the WSB legacy left to

> posterity has not been diminished because of this ceremony, however

> meaningful or in accordance with his wishes &/or those closest to him.

 

patricia wrote

I burnt some River City Reunion programs, printouts of the beat-l

postings, a printout of rinaldo's "shit kicking list", things i thought

that william had enjoyed or would enjoy, I saw things of interest in the

pile but nothing that i would throw myself on the fire for.  Newspaper

clippings, great little sketches of the cats that william had over the

years, tickets and posters announcing readings, looked like a lot of

people wrote letters to the man.  I felt that no legacy was in danger

but I very much felt that I needed to offer up something real. I have

probably 500 river city reunion programs.

        I was stunned how right the ceremony was, I thought the concept of

bardo fit the man and was much taken with the rightness of it.  I told

my husband that a barnfire and potluck would definatly be my funeral of

choice. I would like more dancing, maybe some couples fucking in the

bushes on blankets, My husband said that that would probably be hard,

since our friends were getting old.  I have kept a lot of the anger I

feel around death pretty much in control but I felt a flair at the

suggestion that his feelings and those that loved him should take some

back seat ride to his "legacy left to posterity ", inho, his choice here

was but the reflection of the sincerity of his writing. When  I started

on this list I  argued with some guy who insisted there was nothing of

the spiritual in williams writing, which i thought was a crock.  That no

bettter words than william  reading from western lands could be found to

fit williams bardo is so fucking obvious .. .  Oh well, I am sure that

it is the sholar and researcher that wondered what was lost in the fire.

I found the event to be another layer of education and fun that i

recieved from knowing that old man. It was like him , to actually do it.

        One side of William that always made me marvel was his combining the

intellect with the spirit of exploring the physical  He tinkered and

invented, he was a physical man.  A lot of people use to talk to me of

the conflict between the corporeal and the spiritual and the intellect.

He would talk to me of the exciting points of interactions of these

planes.  I know, that at this point i should dive into quotes from "my

eduction" or western lands, because of what i i am trying to tell  you

about him, with my paraphrasing of his ideas. I assure you, his language

and mine differ and my language does no justice to his ideas, the only

language that did that was his.  I consider him one of the great

geniuses of language.

          It may be the only time i ever really like fireworks.  When I first

met William I suffered from a fear and dread of guns, Fred and William

worked with me for years and i leapt across that fear, and enjoyed

shooting with him. The last time a couple of months before he died was

odd, how the focusing and comradre really brought it to a level of

experiance i would never of acheived without the help. We had a

wonderful conversation about facing things and going through doors , it

brought you to a better place. pow,pow pow.

p

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:24:06 +0900

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Timothy Hoffman <timothy@GOL.COM>

Subject:      Kerouac's "Books"

In-Reply-To:  <34284BAD.2F7C@sunflower.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

        Starting "Some of the Dharma", I was impressed with the notes

displayed in the endcovers in which Kerouac had classified and outlined the

guidelines of his system of different writing types, including such

categories as: Blues, Dreams, Dharmas, Pops, Tics, Visions, Sketches, etc.

(which eventually were published as "Book of Blues", "Book of Dreams",

"Visions of Gerard/Cody", etc.) It provided me with a way to divide and

group some the notes and writings that I had been keeping for years.

        I've ended up with a Folder of Books containing several titles,

some of them matching the types Kerouac had described in the notes and some

of them, like "Book of Prayers", not mentioned specifically in his notes.

        I'm wondering if there is anyone else out there who has had a

chance to look at Some of the Dharma who has any thoughts on the notes

shown in the endcovers (What are your thoughts on this "system"?; Has it

had any influence on your writing?; Were there any categories which you

thought could be added?) or if there has been any studied focus in the

creative writing circles (perhaps at Naropa) of writing within the

parameters of the guidelines described by Jack Kerouac in these notes.

        My book's at home today (I'm at the office), but I'll be happy to

forward in a couple days the description of the system for those folks who

aren't familiar with what I'm talking about. I hope that this post might

tangent off in positive ways.

        Thanks.

 

:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::

Timothy Hoffman

Komaki English Teaching Center

timothy@gol.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 04:32:33 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         John J Dorfner <Jjdorfner@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Fly to Lowell

 

anyone interested in buying a round trip ticket from Raleigh, NC to Boston,

MA?

i can't make the trip to Lowell this year and am hoping that someone out

there will be able to use these tickets.  $200 and the tickets are yours.

 Leave Raleigh Oct. 1st and return on Oct. 6th.  man, i was really looking

forward to this trip.

 

anyone interested.  let me know.

john j dorfner

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:19:25 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      beat images identity

In-Reply-To:  <1.5.4.32.19970923112226.0069d710@pop.pipeline.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

friends,

i've post on the web two photos of beats that i can't

recognize the site is

 

http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beatpic.htm

 

someone has a suggestion?

thanks for the help,

cari saluti,

Rinaldo.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 08:31:46 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>

Subject:      USA Today

 

To get to the OTR 40th Anniversary story in the 9/24/97 USA Today online, go

here: http://www.usatoday.com/life/enter/books/leb848.htm

 

I just glanced at it, but was happy to see they'd included the one-man play

written and performed by Vince Balestri that's been playing most of the year

here in Seattle. I've seen it twice and will see it one more time before the

run ends on 5 October.

 

There's a lot of stuff here, including the news on Brinkley's work. Should

make for good list fodder today.

 

diane

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:25:27 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      OTR -- Reading

 

Reminder for those in the New York City area.  The St. Marks Poetry Project wil

l be hosting a marathon reading of On The Road begainning at 7:00 p.m. this eve

ning.  Admission $7.50.  Free to poetry project members.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 14:03:39 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac's "Books"

 

Tim, please forward the description.  thanks, sherri

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:36:58 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: USA Today

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Diane De Rooy wrote:

>

> To get to the OTR 40th Anniversary story in the 9/24/97 USA Today online, go

> here: http://www.usatoday.com/life/enter/books/leb848.htm

>

> I just glanced at it, but was happy to see they'd included the one-man play

> written and performed by Vince Balestri that's been playing most of the year

> here in Seattle. I've seen it twice and will see it one more time before the

> run ends on 5 October.

>

>

> diane

 

This isn't exactly along the lines ... but was driving Northwest on

Spear Boulvd in Denver and as i was passing Larimer it hit me that was

where Jack was dumped off way back when.

 

Tons of stuff going on there ... banners and balloons and folks moving

around everywhere (all out of the corner of my eye at 50 mph or so)...

 

So i get over to the Federal area around 36 and pick up Benita for

breakfast and say "what's going on down on Larimer?  is it some kind of

kerouac celebration?"  No it's just Octoberfest she says.  And then

after a bit i looked at my watch and saw that it was September.  "Why

Octoberfest in September?  Doesn't that usually come in October?"  It

snows here in October.  Oh.

 

Drive on to Pete's Kitchen ... wonderful Greek omelet.  Good atmosphere.

Good coffee

 

Pete's Kitchen is located at Colfax and RACE in Denver.  I definitely

had to take a picture of that street sign and even got a bit of the

diner in the background.

 

have a fun day.  i head off for KC this weekend.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 12:08:47 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Hitchhiking

In-Reply-To:  <9709130211.aa19931@mail.cruzio.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Getting back to some old posts.

 

On Sat, 13 Sep 1997, Leon Tabory wrote:

 

>  Thanks for the clarification. I am relieved.

>

> I was hoping there were no dark foreboding underpinning there. We are on the

> same wave length. Surfing the good waves. A bit of real danger is there.

> Surprising, stunning new vistas all the time. Maybe even a cherished belief

> threatened here and there. Right now a sudden thought. How many wonderful

> people, creative outpourings, hidden corners of world wide  treasures, leap

> into full view in my  mind through this screen.  How much brilliant light is

> jumping out of the many facets of the jewels of the best minds, turning

> right in front of me, spinning, delicately engaging. Between the fingertips

> of loving dedicated experts on life as well as on books , lucky to have made

> their way close to the pioneering adventures of the mind, the great

> adventurers who spin them, pioneers of our age. So happy to see you all

> passing by. Flashes of the worlds of fiction and of reality. Had no idea of

> the possibilities of hitching rides in the skies,

> friends zooming by our paths.Look at that! Awesome. So much fascinating

> stuff to unfold. The stuff of our lives, diamonds in the rough.The Beat-L

> hitchiking gang. What  a ride to hitch. Including our newest acquaintance

> Yan  who took us off on this ride where we also met the clear eyes of the

> young girl begging in China. Don't we all wish we could know her more too?

> Are we going to run into her another time?

 

I have no comment on the above paragraph, Leon, except for the fact that I

wanted to quote it in its entirety because of the great writing.

 

 

> By the way, did you notice Rinaldo's photo on his list site?

> http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/home.htm I wonder what the huge stack of papers is

> about? Ask Rinaldo? O.K. I am asking you Rinaldo. Where you heading there

> with that mysterious armful load?

 

Yeah Rinaldo, what is that stack of papers (and is that you in the foto)?

 

 

> That reminded me to take another look at your site. So how is copyleft

> progressing? It may not seem beat related right off hand, but I think how

> relevant it would be for future Kerouacs, etc, in a world where copyleft

> replaced royalties and other restraints upon creative happiness and gifts to

> the world.

 

Well the more I experiment with it the more I see just how Beat-related it

is -- at least in terms of the philosophical issues involved, which really

is what it's all about anyway. Richard Stallman gave a great speech about

this which is transcribed at

<http://www.gnu.ai.mit.edu/philosophy/stallman-kth.html>. In it, he says,

 

   Now the spiritual harm that goes with this kind of material harm, is in the

   spirit of self-sufficiency. When a person spends a lot of time using a

   computer system, the configuration of that computer system becomes the city

   that he lives in. Just as the way our houses and furniture are laid out,

   determines what it's like for us to live among them, so that the computer

   system that we use, and if we can't change the computer system that we use

   to suit us, then our lives are really under the control of others. And a

   person who sees this becomes in a certain way demoralized: `It's no use

   trying to change those things, they're always going to be bad. No point even

   hassling it. I'll just put in my time and ..... when it's over I'LL go away

   and try not to think about it any more''. That kind of spirit, that

   unenthusiasm is what results from not being permitted to make things better

   when you have feelings of public spirit.

 

The same is true for _any_ information. There is an interesting relationship

between information and those who comprehend it -- the information becomes

_part_ of them. If you cannot modify it or duplicate it (ie, re-think it),

then you become demoralized. So in a very real way, copyleft is about

freedom -- the freedom to live and think in an information-rich society.

Free information (in the sense of freedom, not necessarily price) allows for

cooperation -- those who push proprietary information and put restrictions

on their once-digital invisible, enternally regenerative wealth-to-humanity

"intellectual property" seek to divide us, and to disallow free thought on

an individual or group level. They will also find that they are facing an

impossible task -- copyright is dead anyway, and those trapped in the old

world will find that trying to enforce their so-called "ownership" of

humanity's wealth (our combined explorations in Universe and its resultant

data) will find it to be as difficult as trying to catch the waves of the

ocean. The ocean's waves and our digital conversations share an important

property -- they exist in pure principle, they are invisible, weightless,

without mass and can be described soley in pure angle and frequency.

 

Which is sort of why I don't believe in any One True Text, but only

versions, interpretations and revisions. Also why I'd like to see some of

the great works by our beloved Beat authors put into digital form. Once such

a thing happens, Kerouac's dream could come true. As Arthur Nusbaum pointed

out, JK is quoted on the back cover of VOC as saying, "In my old age, I

intend to collect all my work and re-insert my pantheon of uniform names,

leave the long shelf full of books there, and die happy." If only he could

have sensed the unfolding electronic revolution, but in 1969 it was only

readily apparant to a few scientists at the world's universities.

 

The old way is scared, and are making desperate attempts. My Wired News

story on the new Divx technology at

<http://www.wired.com/news/news/6947.html> shows what Hollywood is trying to

do to protect the information in their movies -- make a playback system that

will disallow the user to do anything with the information but play it back

(and pause or stop it). Their attempts will prove futile, but -- like music

and literature -- I usually prefer the indies to today's corporate league

anyway.

 

What they would really like is Michael Buchenroth's scenario:

 

On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, Michael L. Buchenroth wrote:

 

> Why would I or anyone else pay for access to your literary database when

> practically everything you store exists elsewhere in public domain free?

> Your site taxes the spirit of the web; defrauds the human species . . .

> ***

> The evolution of human consciousness, if up to institutions such as

> Chadwyck-Healey Ltd, would begin immediately following birth with an

> electrode implantation into each new-born human brain stem connected via

> infra red to a meter not much different than an electric usage meter

> power companies now employ on the side of houses to measure and bill

> customer electricity usage! Only your meter would measure and charge

> thought, for learning each new declamation; every CNS protoplasmic

> propagation, aha potassium reduction the wheel spins 10-cents faster;

> sodium rushing in there location cell AX2956892919 degrees,

> BY2956891219568 degrees, CZ34589, the meter trips signaling Dave's

> Culligan on Main Street that humanoid Dave2001xyz99 needs electrolyte

> home delivery (must keep protoplasmic harmony, electrolytic super

> efficiency, the business plans calls for it) the power grid network'd

> measures blip blip, somewhere a first grader for first time speaks

> "Alice meets Jip. See Jip run? Run Jip run." Elsewhere the grid hums,

> Chuckie learns a pun.

 

I had a dream the night before I read this where a future company had

invented a nanotech billing system for air -- huge plumes of these

microscopic, FDA-approved billing agents would spew out of factory towers,

filling the sky with their invisible mass. You'd breathe them in with the

air, and their meters would record the amount and make micropayments from

your account -- the legal entity of Obnoxico, once having made use of this

human-invented technology, would use it to bring their self-imposed

"ownership" of our once-free air. Only the rich would breathe the good stuff.

 

 

m

 

email stutz@dsl.org  Copyright (c) 1997 Michael Stutz; this information is

<http://dsl.org/m/>  free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL, and as long

                     as this sentence remains; it comes with absolutely NO

                     WARRANTY; for details see <http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:17:11 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Hitchhiking

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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Michael Stutz wrote:

>

>                      as this sentence remains; it comes with absolutely NO

>                      WARRANTY; for details see <http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.

 

Mike,

 

so how do you get all the different posts into one post?  My city is

probably as large as most of y'alls computers minus a hamster or two but

i imagine i've only looked out my bathroom door and not yet even begun

to explore the whole damn computernetwork neighborhood.  I really like

the way you weave together different posts and wonder how to do this.

Does it take some kind of diploma?  Also interested in whether there is

an easy way to download e-mail files into wordprocessing files.  Is this

a mere fantasy on my part or is it something someone with a mechanical

IQ of negative 35 can actually do?

 

Of course others are welcome to answer these things as well.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

 

p.s.  I highly recommend that everyone read the first section/chapter

whatever in CPlymell's Last of the Moc's.  His ideas expressed there

about the Grim Reaper provide a lot of fasincating context to this

funerealish year.  I've been planning for a day now to create some

elaborate post about old GR the deathman incorporating CP's words and

some of the materials from The various deathish and eulogistic threads

of the past months but just now i said ... fuck that!  can't do it

justice.  or i'm too lazy.  just everyone read Charley!

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 12:12:47 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Imploding Text ... something fun yet serious

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Hey all,

 

well since my last post and a shower and listening to seven souls (now

listening to Louis Armstrong) i had a bright idea.  Can't say it is a

full blown light bulb but it seems to be somewhere between a dull haze

and a black light.

 

i was lucky enough to be involved in s.a. griffin's exploding text of

Allen Ginsberg's "On Burroughs Work" last year.  I was surprised that

s.a. even knew the right touches to have it printed in a nice little red

pamphlet and even had something that said Rose of Sharon press on it -

which has impressed the hell out of some of my old friends - - which

makes me laugh a lot -- but it also ruined my lifelong attempt to

challenge the publish or perish mentality.  Hoping that somehow in not

publishing i could be immortal.

 

But mortality is our lot and despite the best efforts to write or not

write our way past these physical limitations it appears that we all

croak one day or another.

 

And mortality is a universal theme of our lives.  We face it with nearly

every step.  And yet somehow we stride on.  It seems, though i am still

fairly new to this wonderful group of writers called 'beat' (beat being

synonymous with rhubarb) that death and mortality is something that is

mentioned in more than just passing in much of the writings that are

becoming known as Beat Generation Literature.  This seems true of the

Big three or four or five and even of the much larger lists that are

accumulating from across the waters near Pound's centre of the

universe.  (Rinaldo = the postcard you sent me of venice still sits

proudly leaning on my computer monitor).

 

So my idea was precisely the opposite of the exploding text and it is an

imploding beat text on the ideas of death, mortality, immortality,

funerals, blah blah blah....I think that it can provide some fun.  I

think it can give something for a much wider range of listmembers to

participate in, and i think that it can be a creative implosion -

perhaps alchemical - that provides some closure to a rather odd year.

 

So exactly what do i mean by this imploding text?  Of course, i'm never

certain and i hate to be pinned down to definitions - but here is a

preliminary title and a fragmentary map of the territory i am

considering.  The title would be "Eulogy for the Eulogy: OR a Wake of

Words" (note the definite Underdog style in the title).  Everyone just

picks a line, a sentence, a poetic fragment from someone "beatish" and

includes it in a stream of quotations.  No academic strings to attempt

to interpret just letting the Beat-words speak for themselves.  Be

certain to keep the fragments brief to respect copyrights and whatnot.

A little dash after the quotation with the writer and the place you

found it would be nice of course.

 

So once again where did this idea pop from.  Perhaps when i was

shaving.  I heard that Einstein once said he had his best ideas while

shaving.  I usually am lucky to get by without a cut throat.  So it was

probably in the shower and i had been thinking of death a lot as of late

and i had so thoroughly enjoyed the thoughts it caused to creep into me

and all the bardo stuff from this weekend of course, and this whole

year, and i have to think that the coffee table copy of Bartlett's

quotations in WSB's home the morning after the memorial service probably

had an influence.  At any rate, the idea has sprung from my brain in

full foam as you can see.  I hope folks will join in.  I hope that a

wide range of writers get "imploded" and the collection of words may

actually mean something when it is through ... if it is ever through

(this appears a thread that could be eternal) ... so i'll start it off.

Whoever follows me just eliminate all this garbage of words and type a

quotation after the one i do and send it along to the List.  I hope

others find this fun too!  dbr

 

"The reaper trims his own cosmic garden, if there were too many of this

or that cosmic thread, too much here, not enough there, disconnected or

plucked from this dual reality, this cosmic thread needed to make the

total weave of existence come out right, or that with the proper pattern

in the proper time and space -- or maybe they were selected with a

certain type life thread to string together molecules and tie them

together in that mirror of anti-matter."

        -- Charles Plymell, The Last of the Moccasins, 1971, 1996

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:13:21 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      [nameless beatnicks] Re: Imploding Text ... something fun yet

              serious

In-Reply-To:  <34294A0F.5F48@midusa.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

david,

 

call me wrong but i've a feel with the

missing beat, noname beats,

 

cari saluti,

rinaldo.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:21:49 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jorgiana S Jake <jorgiana@U.ARIZONA.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Life & Times of Allen Ginsberg

In-Reply-To:  <1.5.4.16.19970920011531.26f78836@mail.wi.centuryinter.net>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Well, it seems as though I have started a debate.  I'm dropping by the

video store tonight, I'll read the jacket of the movie.

 

Jorgiana

 

 

On Sat, 20 Sep 1997, Mike Rice wrote:

 

> At 10:38 PM 9/19/97 -0000, you wrote:

> >Mike,

> >

> >        No, no, no. . .  Reeves was not portraying Kerouac.  The entire

> movie was

> >based on a letter from Neal TO Jack. . .  how then would Jack be in the

> >movie?  Why would Neal write a letter to Kerouac explaining to him the

> >events that he had a been a party to?

> >        The character's name bore no resemblance to Jack Kerouac and if I

> recall

> >correctly, the character was supposed to be about ten years older than

> >Neal.  I certainly don't claim to be a Kerouackian expert, but there's no

> >way that anyone should mistake the Keanu Reeves character for Jack Kerouac.

> > The guy had absolutely no personality, no drive for life, no gusto,

> >nothing but playing pool in shitty little pub. . . and his damn egg nog. .

> >.  Jack drank wine, not egg nog.

> >

> >Bruce

> >bwhartmanjr@iname.com

> >http://www.geocities.com/~tranestation

> >

>

> Was Neal called Neal?  I don't remember, and I don't really care

> what anyone was called, and I don't care if the letter was

> based on a letter Jack wrote, though it is not my sense that

> the letter was from Jack.  I know what the film was about, it

> was mostly about Neal, but it was sprinkled with a little manque

> Jack.  As for the covering of the Keanu character.  They can't use

> a Jack character without the permission of the Heirs.  Cassady is

> so little known by mainstream folks that they would HAVE TO HAVE

> a more recognized member of the Beats to even put this story on

> the screen.  That member is Kerouac, and Reeves plays him, just as

> a little seasoning in a story about Neal.

>

> Mike Rice

>

 

* You can always tell a Texan, but not much.*

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:26:15 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jorgiana S Jake <jorgiana@U.ARIZONA.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Life & Times of Allen Ginsberg

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.GSO.3.96.970920124042.2486A-100000@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

>>Don't mind my snipping:

> I do think the director/writer did use his artistic license in trying to

> make Keanu "Kerouacesque" as much as possible, just as he did with the

> character who shared a suit with Neal.  That character was closer to Allen

> Ginsberg than Keanu Reeves was to Kerouac.

>>No more snipping:

>

> Warmest Regards,

>

> Bob Whiteley

>

 

 

But Ginsberg was portrayed in the film if I remember correctly.  Even

hints to a little homosexual tension between Neal and Allen.

 

Jorgiana

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:27:45 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jorgiana S Jake <jorgiana@U.ARIZONA.EDU>

Subject:      Re: ESSENCE & LONGING

In-Reply-To:  <3424464E.4FFB@sunflower.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Sat, 20 Sep 1997, Patricia Elliott wrote:

 

> Chad J Blanchard wrote:

> patricia wrote,

> looks like spam to me.

> p

 

 

Nice use of cap's as well!

Jorgiana>

 

* You can always tell a Texan, but not much.*

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:33:00 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jorgiana S Jake <jorgiana@U.ARIZONA.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Life & Times of Allen Ginsberg

In-Reply-To:  <970921141132_-61831279@emout01.mail.aol.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

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> Mike,

> I don't want to sound pushy or anything, but i really don't think it was

> supposed to be Jack, but i'm just taking it from the context of the letter.

> So, maybe i'm wrong, but that will change my entire opinion about the movie.

> So, was the character "Benjamin" supposed to be Allen? I suspected that the

> director threw him in it for fun. Its not that I want to prove you wrong, but

> Keanu Reeves as JK, gimme a break, that would be awful. If anyone has any

> info. to add about this, i would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.

>                    ~~Marlene

 

See???  THAT'S what is scary.  Like anyone can watch him without a

continuous chant of keanu keanu keanu keanu going thru one's head!  Poor

casting choice if that was indeed the idea...but EGG NOG?

 

Jorgiana>

 

* You can always tell a Texan, but not much.*

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:40:38 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jorgiana S Jake <jorgiana@U.ARIZONA.EDU>

Subject:      Re: N.Y. TIMES -  last Suicide review

Comments: To: "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>

In-Reply-To:  <199709232042.QAA23495@kanga.INS.CWRU.Edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Diane M. Homza wrote:

 

> Reply to message from duncang@ENTO.CSIRO.AU of Mon, 22 Sep

> >

> >

> >          PRODUCTION NOTES:

> >

> >          'THE LAST TIME I COMMITTED SUICIDE'

> >

> >          With: Thomas Jane (Neal Cassady), Keanu Reeves (Harry),

> >          Adrien Brody (Ben), Claire Forlani (Joan) and Gretchen

> >          Mol (Cherry Mary). Written and directed by Stephen Kay;

> >          based on a letter written by Neal Cassady to Jack

> >          Kerouac; director of photography, Bobby Bukowski; edited

> >          by Dorian Harris; music by Tyler Bates; production

> >          designer, Amy Ancona; produced by Edward Bates and

> >          Louise Rosner; released by Kushner-Locke Company, Roxie

> >          Releasing and Tapestry Films.

> >

>

>

> Does anyone know if this Stephen Kay is a Beat enthusiast?  It makes me

> wonder how he happened upon this project...I don't think the letter is much

> known outside of the Beat Enthusiast realm.  Oh, cure my wonderings,

> someone!  (and I greatly apologize if this has been discussed before & I

> just don't pay attention & the colelctive compnay decides to exile me

> from posting anymore)

>

> Diane. (H)

 

 

Okay, and if anyone didn't notice, I have been out of town all weekend

and OBVIOUSLY my mail reads backwards when going thru 175 messages.  My

appologies for all the messages regarding this movie.  I feel silly.

Sorry again...

 

Jorgiana

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:17:10 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: [nameless beatnicks] Re: Imploding Text ... something fun yet

              serious

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

>

> david,

>

> call me wrong but i've a feel with the

> missing beat, noname beats,

>

> cari saluti,

> rinaldo.

 

i'm not calling you wrong at all.  i love your project.  i hope that it

can bring new ideas into the thread i suggested.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:24:12 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: [nameless beatnicks] Re: Imploding Text ... something fun yet

              serious

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

>

> david,

>

> call me wrong but i've a feel with the

> missing beat, noname beats,

>

> cari saluti,

> rinaldo.

 

A tomb for the Unknown Beatnik, dead of an overdose or America's

neglect,  another memorial service among the memorial services during

this rough year for Beat icons, leave worn out bongos and very scratchy

Charlie Parker albums--an eternal flame of alternating pot and cigarette

smoke flickers . . .

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:05:53 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jorgiana S Jake <jorgiana@U.ARIZONA.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Douglas Brinkley and Kerouac (and America)

In-Reply-To:  <970922155800_1630061747@emout11.mail.aol.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Oh, how I love my electronic friends!  I just picked up USA Today and

there is an article in it (along with a loverly fuzzy picture of JK in a

suit).

 

Two new books: Some of the Dharma and a special edition of OTR.  Also a

really hopping poetry reading tonight.  More books (Viking) in 2001 and

2002 (what a wait).

 

Thanks for letting us know!

 

Jorgiana

 

On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, Diane De Rooy wrote:

 

> In a message dated 97-09-22 14:42:06 EDT, you write:

>

> <<

>  I talked to Professor Brinkley on the phone yesterday.  He is in the

>  process of editing Jack's road diaries (120 volumes of them!!) and a few

>  pages will come out in the New Yorker this December.  He is also writing a

>  biography on Kerouac  >>

>

> I understand it's true about the OTR journals, but I'm given to understand

> there are not necessarily firm plans for a biography by Brinkley.

>

> Apparently there will be a feature story on the subject in Wednesday's

> USAToday. Anyway, that's what I hear.

>

> diane

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:18:29 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         NormNDy Farm <sheeper@LAN2WAN.COM>

Organization: AniMules, Inc.

Subject:      Who is Who?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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Hi.

We're currently reading *On The Road* in class right now, and got to

wondering about the true identity of some of the characters in the book.

Obvioulsy, Dean Moriarity is Neal Cassady, but what about the other

characters? Does anyone know who Carlo, Ed Dunkel and the others are? Is

Carlo actually Ginsberg? And is Kerouac's 'aunt' really his mother?

Thanks for your input!

Norm

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:39:11 +0000

Reply-To:     randyr@southeast.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Comments:     Authenticated sender is <randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>

From:         randy royal <randyr@MAILHUB.JAXNET.COM>

Subject:      Re: Who is Who?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

 

> Hi.

> We're currently reading *On The Road* in class right now, and got to

> wondering about the true identity of some of the characters in the book.

> Obvioulsy, Dean Moriarity is Neal Cassady, but what about the other

> characters? Does anyone know who Carlo, Ed Dunkel and the others are? Is

> Carlo actually Ginsberg? And is Kerouac's 'aunt' really his mother?

> Thanks for your input!

carlo marx- allen ginsberg

ed dunkel- ed sanders(?)

aunt- mom

old bull- william s. burruoghs

that's it from the top of my head

levi- don't you have a page about this?

> Norm

>

randy

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:06:47 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jonathan Pickle <jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>

Subject:      forgot to add

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Forgot to add:

 

Jane Lee is Joan Vollmer - the wife who WSB accidently killed portraying

William tell in Mexico

 

Jon

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:56:01 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jonathan Pickle <jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Who is Who?

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 08:18 PM 9/24/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Hi.

>We're currently reading *On The Road* in class right now, and got to

>wondering about the true identity of some of the characters in the book.

>Obvioulsy, Dean Moriarity is Neal Cassady, but what about the other

>characters? Does anyone know who Carlo, Ed Dunkel and the others are? Is

>Carlo actually Ginsberg? And is Kerouac's 'aunt' really his mother?

>Thanks for your input!

>Norm

>

Carlo Marx is Allen Ginsberg

Sal's (JK) aunt is his mother

Old Bull Lee is WSB

Tom Saybrook is John Cellon Holmes

Elmo Hassel is Herbert Huncke

Lucille is based on a relationship with a girl name Pauline

I believe Rocco is Paul Blake - his brother-in-law

I think that Camille is LuAnn Henderson and Marylou is Carolyn Cassady but

i often mix the two up.  Maybe someone else can clear this up.

Rollo Greb is Alan Ansen

 

This is ehat I have so far.  All but Rocco, Camille and Marylou are

certain.  Can any one else add anything?

 

Jon

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:43:21 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jym Mooney <vmooney@EXECPC.COM>

Subject:      Re: Who is Who?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Jonathan Pickle writes:

 

> I think that Camille is LuAnn Henderson and Marylou is Carolyn Cassady

but

> i often mix the two up.  Maybe someone else can clear this up.

 

Yeah, you've got these two reversed...Camille is Carolyn, Marylou is LuAnn.

 

Also, Randy Royal writes:

 

>ed dunkel- ed sanders(?)

 

Ed Dunkel is Ed Hinkel, not Sanders.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:30:47 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Robert De Niro, the beat.

In-Reply-To:  <34294A0F.5F48@midusa.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>From: neato@pipeline.com

>neato says:

>robert deniro- father of the actor robert deniro..he was a street poet and

>artist..his art is included in some of the poetry journals of the

>time...kerouac mentions him in one of his books

 

friends, i've the same interest in this subjest, it's possible

to track robert deniro thru jack kerouac works? as his true name

or pseudonym. anyone has notice of de niro's beat father?

cari saluti da rinaldo.

-*-

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:11:50 BST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tom Harberd <T.E.Harberd@UEA.AC.UK>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

 

I just started my Beat Gen. Course at UEA (here in the UK),

and I am well chuffed to find that a)it's run by a guy who's

just finished a biography of WSB, and b)Caroline Cassady

(sic?) is comming to speak to us.

Sing Ho!  For the life of a bear!

 

Tom H.

http://www.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759

"This is the way the world ends, not with a bang but a

whimper."

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 25 Sep 1997 08:52:58 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Robert De Niro, the beat.

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 09:30 AM 9/25/97 +0200, you wrote:

>>From: neato@pipeline.com

>>neato says:

>>robert deniro- father of the actor robert deniro..he was a street poet and

>>artist..his art is included in some of the poetry journals of the

>>time...kerouac mentions him in one of his books

>

>friends, i've the same interest in this subjest, it's possible

>to track robert deniro thru jack kerouac works? as his true name

>or pseudonym. anyone has notice of de niro's beat father?

>cari saluti da rinaldo.

>-*-

>I will put it on the page in the near future..Thank-you! Paul of TKQ...

"Do not cumber yourself with fruitless pains to mend and remedy remote effects;

     let the soul be erect, and all things go well."  Ralph Waldo Emerson,

"The Transcendentalist"

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 25 Sep 1997 08:33:25 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      south

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Dear beat-l. I will be leaving for Austin on Friday, Lena will be in

charge of any emmergency beat postings.  I will be traveling for two

weeks. Any sugggestion on readings or music in that media rich town. I

will be visiting the green building folks.  I travel through Oklahoma on

the way there, and will return by Louisiana and Arkansas, Missouri,

maybe Rolla, then Kansas,  GOD I love geography.

p

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:52:24 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 01:11 PM 9/25/97 BST, you wrote:

>I just started my Beat Gen. Course at UEA (here in the UK),

>and I am well chuffed to find that a)it's run by a guy who's

>just finished a biography of WSB, and b)Caroline Cassady

>(sic?) is comming to speak to us.

>Sing Ho!  For the life of a bear!

>

>Tom H.

>http://www.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759

>"This is the way the world ends, not with a bang but a

>whimper."

>

>

You Brits have all the luck.  We have to pay dearly

for such elaborate beat service.

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:05:55 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Jon B. Pearlstone" <THYE@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: USA Today

 

I missed the USA Today piece yesterday--having trouble searching for it on

line--can someone give me the exact name and author of the article--any

details would be appreciated--if you could e-mail it and save me the time

that would be even better.

 

Thanks.

 

Jon

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:40:15 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac's "Books"

In-Reply-To:  <v03007815b04ee0343ab6@[203.216.28.124]>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Wed, 24 Sep 1997, Timothy Hoffman wrote:

 

>         Starting "Some of the Dharma", I was impressed with the notes

> displayed in the endcovers in which Kerouac had classified and outlined the

> guidelines of his system of different writing types, including such

> categories as: Blues, Dreams, Dharmas, Pops, Tics, Visions, Sketches, etc.

> (which eventually were published as "Book of Blues", "Book of Dreams",

> "Visions of Gerard/Cody", etc.)

 

Cool. Sounds a lot like the system Fitzgerald had. If you've never seen it,

and are interested, there's a book out there called _The Notebooks of F.

Scott Fitzgerald_, edited by Bruccoli. It contains categories such as Bright

Clippings, Conversation and Things Overheard, Jingles and Songs, Karacters,

and Moments (What people do).

 

Does _Some of the Dharma_ go into this system in any depth, or say when he

started using it?

 

 

email stutz@dsl.org  Copyright (c) 1997 Michael Stutz; this information is

<http://dsl.org/m/>  free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL, and as long

                     as this sentence remains; it comes with absolutely NO

                     WARRANTY; for details see <http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:36:39 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jonathan Pickle <jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>

Subject:      Re: south

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 08:33 AM 9/25/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Dear beat-l. I will be leaving for Austin on Friday, Lena will be in

>charge of any emmergency beat postings.  I will be traveling for two

>weeks. Any sugggestion on readings or music in that media rich town. I

>will be visiting the green building folks.  I travel through Oklahoma on

>the way there, and will return by Louisiana and Arkansas, Missouri,

>maybe Rolla, then Kansas,  GOD I love geography.

>p

>

I am from just north of Austin and used to spend a lot of time there.

Sixth Street is great to meet a lot of people as is The Drag(Guadalupe

around 30th street)  All around the UT campus you can find many great

people.  The best bookstore in the world is Book People located at sixth

and Lamar (West of the interstate.)  Anything else I can help you with let

me know.  I've got a lot of great friends down there in case you need some

help once you get there.

 

Jon

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 25 Sep 1997 15:03:31 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marlene Giraud <M84M79@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: SPIN

 

Adam,

 I understand where you were coming from. Sorry if i sounded rude in my post,

but I didn't want the fellow listers to get the wrong impression of

coffehouses. Thankyou for your post, don'y worry I'm not offended. :)

 

                                                ~~~Marlene

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 25 Sep 1997 15:47:50 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Web Page Addition: Kicks joy darkness

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

I added a page of pull quotes citing various reviews of kicks joy darkness.

Hope you enjoy and thanks to those who sent me the book covers! To see the

new page go to:

 

   http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/kicksjoydarkness.html

 

 

                              Thank-you,

                               Paul of The Kerouac Quarterly. . .

"Do not cumber yourself with fruitless pains to mend and remedy remote effects;

     let the soul be erect, and all things go well."  Ralph Waldo Emerson,

"The Transcendentalist"

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 25 Sep 1997 15:44:02 -0400

Reply-To:     Neil Hennessy <nhenness@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Neil Hennessy <nhenness@UNDERGRAD.MATH.UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Re: your mail

In-Reply-To:  <ECS9709251350A@smtp.uea.ac.uk>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Thu, 25 Sep 1997, Tom Harberd wrote:

 

> I just started my Beat Gen. Course at UEA (here in the UK),

> and I am well chuffed to find that a)it's run by a guy who's

> just finished a biography of WSB,

 

Who's the guy, and when's the bio coming out?

 

Can't be so glib with tid-bits like that Tom!

 

Neil

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 25 Sep 1997 16:36:49 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: USA Today

 

Like most online daily newspapers, the USA Today link is only good for the

day the story is published, which was Wednesday, Sept. 24. Important stories

are archived at the website, but usually not right away.

 

For your interest, and for others who may not have had a chance to get there

while it existed, I'm pasting the entire story below, sans graphics, which

was a shot of the cover of "Some of the Dharma."

================================

<headline>40 years traveling Kerouac's 'Road'

<subhead>The kicks just keep coming for followers of Jack Kerouac.

<Picture><Sidebar>

(Excerpt)

A Vision of Sweet Heaven

 

Things in the world are absent - not really there - I'm unhappy because my

life is cold and strange - But it only appears to be so. In reality, there is

no basis on which I can lay claim that I am not what I have thought. It's all

gone, absent. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. We are taught to die. Long

suffering gets even worse. There is absolutely no hope, and by the same law

there's no sin. Rejoice in the moment, regulators of the world! Heaven is

very silent.

 

- From Some of the Dharma by Jack Kerouac

 

<Lead>This month marks the 40th anniversary of the publication of On the

Road, the author's seminal novel of Americana. Its original publisher, Viking

Press - which published the novel Sept. 5, 1957, for $3.95 - has served up a

commemorative double shot with a never-before-published book by Kerouac

called Some of the Dharma, $32.95, and a special edition of On the Road,

$24.95.

     And Wednesday night in New York, the Poetry Project marks the event with

an all-night marathon reading of On the Road at St. Mark's

Church-in-the-Bowery. Among the 90 or so expected readers are jazz musician

and Kerouac friend David Amram (who starts the reading at 7 p.m. ET);

Kerouac's original literary agent, Sterling Lord; editor Richard Seaver;

musicians Maggie Estep, Richard Hell and Lee Ranaldo (of Sonic Youth); and

Columbia University historian Ann Douglas.

Viking also has announced that it bought the rights to Kerouac's unpublished

journals, photographs, tape recordings and other belongings for a definitive

biography, due in the fall of 2001, and three volumes of journal entries, the

first due in 2002.

     "Jack sort of saved everything," says Viking's Paul Slovak. "Readers

will see American culture through Kerouac's eyes."

     As a teen in Lowell, Mass., and up until his death in St. Petersburg,

Fla., in 1969, Kerouac continually wrote - in neat script - in spiral

notebooks. He described daily happenings and included poems, riddles, doodles

and prayers, says Douglas Brinkley, a University of New Orleans historian

editing the journals and writing the biography.

     The first journals to be published (the collection of notebooks has been

stored in a bank vault in Lowell, Mass., since the writer's death) will be

those written between 1947 and 1951 while Kerouac was traveling throughout

the USA and Mexico. Those writings were the basis for On the Road, Brinkley

says.

     On the Road (written in 1951, but turned down by publishers until six

years later) and Kerouac's other works (The Town and the City, The Dharma

Bums, Desolation Angels) are largely autobiographical. Most are written in

his spontaneous prose, a literary approach akin to jazz, specifically "bop,"

as played by Charlie Parker and others. Kerouac's scatological stories

detailed his life and those of his friends, among them Allen Ginsberg, Neal

Cassady and William Burroughs.

     In the novels, he and his compatriots get pseudonyms, but in Kerouac's

journals, Brinkley says, "you get the real Ginsberg, the real Burroughs and

Cassady . . . and others."

     Overall, the journals represent "an absolutely amazing historical

document of one of the great literary voices of our time," Brinkley says.

     Interest in Kerouac is on the rise, and his legacy has prompted a

multimedia blitz. Last year, musicians such as R.E.M.'s Michael Stipe, actors

Johnny Depp and Matt Dillon, and writers Hunter S. Thompson and Lawrence

Ferlinghetti were among those who contributed to a CD compilation based on

Kerouac writings called kicks joy darkness.

     Recent Kerouac books include The Portable Jack Kerouac (Penguin, $14.95)

and the reissued Jack Kerouac: Selected Letters, 1940-1956 (Penguin, $15.95),

both edited by Kerouac biographer Ann Charters. A second collected-letters

volume is due next year. Talk continues about a film based on On the Road,

too.

     In Seattle, performance artist Vincent Balestri's one-man show, Kerouac:

The Essence of Jack, has been playing for nearly a year at the Velvet Elvis

Arts Lounge Theater in Pioneer Square.

     Now, Balestri is reading Some of the Dharma and plans to add a scene

based on it to his show in time for the Oct. 25 anniversary of its one-year

run. He describes Dharma as a "quite intense" work in which Kerouac tried to

merge Buddhism and Catholicism into his own take on religion.

     Just as Kerouac "shook the foundations of the establishment of

literature," Balestri says, the writer also was "prescient" in foreseeing

that Eastern thought would become accepted by many Westerners.

     The journals will continue to help Kerouac "become more acceptable as a

literary genius," he says.

     Brinkley doesn't expect Kerouac's luster to fade in the time it takes to

get the journals and biography to press. That's because his writing continues

to capture young, inquiring minds. For Gen Xers and those younger, Kerouac,

who died at age 47, represents someone who put friends and lifestyle above

occupation and material things. "Today's young people identify with him,"

Brinkley says. "Kerouac didn't look for a job. Kerouac lived."

 

--By Mike Snider, USA TODAY

===============================

diane

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 25 Sep 1997 15:14:13 CDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Lundburg, Wes" <wlundburg@MAIL.FF.CC.MN.US>

Subject:      Re: Who is who?

 

The following is an attached Text item from cc:Mail.  It contains

information that had to be encoded to ensure successful transmission

through various mail systems.  To decode the file use the UUDECODE

program.

--------------------------------- Cut Here ---------------------------------

begin 644 TextItem

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M(&%B;W5T('1H92!T<G5E(&ED96YT:71Y(&]F('-O;64@;V8@=&AE(&-H87)A

M8W1E<G,@:6X@=&AE(&)O;VLN#0H^($]B=FEO=6QS>2P@1&5A;B!-;W)I87)I

M='D@:7,@3F5A;"!#87-S861Y+"!B=70@=VAA="!A8F]U="!T:&4@;W1H97(-

M"CX@8VAA<F%C=&5R<S\@1&]E<R!A;GEO;F4@:VYO=R!W:&\@0V%R;&\L($5D

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M:&ES(&UO=&AE<C\-"CX@5&AA;FMS(&9O<B!Y;W5R(&EN<'5T(0T*#0I"97EO

M;F0@2V5R;W5A8R`H4V%L(%!A<F%D:7-E*2!A;F0@0V%S<V%D>2`H1&5A;B!-

M;W)I87)I='DI+"!H97)E)W,@=&AE(&QI<W0@9G)O;2`@#0I?5&AE(%!O<G1A

M8FQE($)E870@4F5A9&5R7R`H960N(&)Y($%N;B!#:&%R=&5R<RDZ#0H-"D-A

M<FQO($UA<G@@/2!!;&QE;B!':6YS8F5R9PT*3VQD($)U;&P@3&5E(#T@5RY3

M+B!"=7)R;W5G:',-"D5L;65R($AA<W-E;"`]($AE<F)E<G0@2'5N8VME#0H-

M"E-E96US(&QI:V4@22=V92!S965N(&$@;6]R92!C;VUP;&5T92!L:7-T('-O

L;65P;&%C92P@8G5T($D@9&]N)W0@<F5C86QL('=H97)E+@T*+2TM5V5S#0H`

 

end

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 25 Sep 1997 18:23:28 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      Some net-based Burroughs research

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 22:43:16 +0200

From: BAUDRON Isabelle <baudron@interpc.fr>

To: Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>

 

<snipped>

 

Dear friends,

 

One month and a half after the beginning of this adventure,

around 80 people who wrote to Burroughs' Memorial asked for

being kept in touch or participating.  I also send this to

eleven people, who did not kept in touch after getting the

machine, in case they would be interested

in the following, as a test : but in case anybody does not

want to be involved anymore, please

tell me, and I shall take you our of the address book.

 

>From all the propositions and subjects of interests, we

have several groups :

 

 

1. WEB SITE:

 

Most of people think we need a web site to publish our

texts, the news concerning the activities of the group,

etc. So do I. Some people have already begun to work at it.

You can see the first results at :

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/gary.leeming/index.htm

 

Gary is taking the site in charge. So you can contact him

at <gary.leeming@ukonline.co.uk>

 

 

We can also use the site to make a magazine, every 3 month

for instance.

 

 For those who are not used to make web pages, as I was 3

days ago, it is quite simple to make with the computer

itself which contains the elements to make it : it took me

an afternoon using the help included in the computer to

learn to make it.

 

 

2. MUSICIANS AND PERFORMERS:

 

Tom Matthews proposed to take in charge this group, to

gather archives, recordings,

audio and video-tapes, etc., and to find ways to sell,

exchange, etc., them. You can join him at:

 

< tmathews@MicroAge-tb.com>

 

Tom proposes to print tee shirts and sell them.

 

He is also working on a computer-based version of the

dreamachine (using glasses and a cable

attached to a computer's printer port and has also home

built sound manipulation  hardwares.

 

 

 3 .  POETS, WRITERS :

 

Some people have begun to send texts to include in the book

"Le temps des Naguals"  I have already written, and which

contains interviews and texts of and about Burroughs and

Gysin. I have recorded all the writings sent in a second

part.

 

For those who would like to see their texts published in

the site, I can make a web page for them, but you can also

make it, which would be more personal, so every text could

be as well an art work made by its author. What do you

think?

 

 

4. CONTACTS:

 

Some people would like to be in touch and have exchanges

with other members.

 

For establishing contacts, we have different possibilities:

 

a)  I can make an address book with the names, E-mails

addresses, and main subjects of interest of people who want

to have contacts: for instance :

 

Isabelle Baudron - baudron@interpc.fr - Dreams third mind,

web-site, and exchanges.

 

So everyone wanting to be in the address book can sends me

this, and I include it in a special address book that I

shall send by E-mail to each sender, so it will remain

limited to its members, to preserve privacy.

 

 

        b) We can have a chat-room on ICQ for direct contacts. As

there are members in US, most of countries of Europe and

Australia, it should be possible to get in touch with

someone at any time of day and night. I got a page there

UIN #3146693, where you can also join me. But I have no

experience of chat room, so if you want to contact me

through it, do not

be astonished if it takes some times.

 

        c) We can make a Newsletter, and spread it by E-mail.

 

        d) We can use the web site for exchanges and contacts.

 

        e) Some people have been making groups of E-mail

exchanges. Some people who wrote in the Memorial have also

established their own contacts and groups. In case you

think the result of your exchanges might be valuable for

others and would like to see them published,

we can also include them in the book, with or without your

coordinates, and after you have checked their content.

 

 

5. DREAMS:

 

Several people have been sending dreams, some write them

down and would be interested in a group of research about

it.  I have been noting them since 1981 and am also

interesting in a common work and exchanges.

 

Several people have been making dreams about Burroughs. It

might be interesting to gather them and see what comes out

of it, and what they can teach us on Burroughs influence on

this part of our life. This might be included in the book

as well.

 

 

6. SCIENTIFIC AND MEDICAL RESEARCH:

 

Some people are interested in research in precise domains:

apomorphine, new treatments for quieting anxious people,

for cancer, intoxication, etc.).

 

I am a psychiatric nurse, having stopped working since some

years after 15 years at the hospital. I am interested in

making medical research in the domains of expansion of

conscience, treatments of addiction, (I have the protocol

of apomorphine cure written by Ian Somerville if you want)

cancers, and any treatment allowing to strengthen the

defenses of organism.

 

I propose we use the opportunity of our group to gather

informations in those domains, or others you might have in

mind, and make a group of research with doctors, nurses and

therapists of the group, plus all the people interested. I

do not intend to work in a hospital anymore, but if my

experience can be of any use in the context of this group,

it is at your disposal.

 

 

7. BURROUGHSIAN CONCEPTS AND DOMAINS OF RESEARCH:

 

Some would like to work on specific themes as third-mind,

evil spirit, control, magic, sex, synchronicities, etc. I

am quite interested too by all this.

 

Some people have begun exchanges on those domains.

 

 

8. THE ACADEMY:

 

The idea of making an Academy in a castle, big house, etc.,

is part of the dreams of quite a lot of people. But it

implies practical problems due to a static place which may

not be adapted to our Cyber experiment, and require

spending money to go to the place, etc.

 

To me the main interest for such a place would  be, besides

the Academy which can also be settled on the web, to have a

place where we could meet, and which could be a temporary

shelter for the members of the group who need it, sort of

an Interzone we can come to for making a break out of the

daily context.

 

Anyway for the moment this is not the most urgent thing. We

can begin to use the tools we already got at our disposal.

 

In case an opportunity comes, then I propose we study it

together. But spending time and energy in looking for it

now does not seem adapted for the moment

 

 Max, who is also French, proposes to organize the Academy

as TAZ (temporary autonomous zones) on the web, according

to Hakim Bey's experiment. I still have to get more

informations on the subject because it's new to me. What do

you think?

 

 

9. THE NAME OF OUR GROUP :

Here are the first propositions:

- Tarzan Society

- Ah Pook Academy

- Junkshakes

- The People's Republic of Interzone

- Grey Johnson or Endless Johnson Family or Dead Johnsons

Incorporated

- Invisible Corp

- Beat Hotel

- Room 23

 

 

10 .  LANGUAGES:

 

For the moment we cover the following languages: English,

French, Spanish, German, Dutch, Norwegian, Slovak,

Sweedish, Portuguese, Italian, Greek, Chinese, Japanese.

 

We might use all this knowledge for translations of our

writings, or Burroughs' and Gysin's books, which have not

been translated in some languages. We can make translation

groups, which allows getting to a quick and good result.

 

Some people who have a personal web sites in different

countries could make pages about the group in their

language and link them together, and to our site.

 

 

 

 So this is a set of opportunities we got altogether,

enough to begin to work for the moment.

 

I hope you enjoy it.

 

Thanks again for your concern, propositions and

participation.

 

Love to all.

 

Izzy

 



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