=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 21:42:02 -0400
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From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Kerouac and Buddhism..
Comments:
To: randyr@southeast.net
In-Reply-To:
<199709202234.SAA21866@mailhub.southeast.net>
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There
is a great Burroughs quote in Joyce Johnson's intro to "Desolation
Angels"
(which I just started), which perfectly expresses his cynicism
abut
Kerouac's obsession with Buddhism.
Burroughs knew Kerouac well
enough
to know that he could never turn his back on his catholic roots:
"A
man who uses Buddhism, or any other instrument to remove love from his
being
in order to avoid suffering, has committed, in my mind, a
sacriledge
comparable to castration" WSB
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 01:02:24 -0400
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From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Life & Times of Allen Ginsberg
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At
01:55 AM 9/20/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>
Mike Rice wrote:
>
>>
Was Neal called Neal? I don't remember,
and I don't really care
>>
what anyone was called, and I don't care if the letter was
>>
based on a letter Jack wrote, though it is not my sense that
>>
the letter was from Jack. I know what
the film was about, it
>>
was mostly about Neal, but it was sprinkled with a little manque
>>
Jack. As for the covering of the Keanu
character. They can't use
>>
a Jack character without the permission of the Heirs. Cassady is
>>
so little known by mainstream folks that they would HAVE TO HAVE
>>
a more recognized member of the Beats to even put this story on
>>
the screen. That member is Kerouac, and
Reeves plays him, just as
>>
a little seasoning in a story about Neal.
>
>I
have never seen the film in question but I am curious about your
>assumption
"They can't use a Jack character without permission from the
>heirs." From what I gather from the postings about
this movie it was
>obviously
a screenplay and not a documentary with actual footage of Jack
>or
Neal. There is nothing that can stop a
writer from writing a
>screenplay
or a work of fiction about anybody or anything. In fact one
>could
even write a biography about someone without permission if the
>information
used was of public record. The heirs
only hold the rights to
>use
of the person's original materials.
>DC
>
>
If the
producers of a film characterize someone in a way that
endangers
Jack's heritage or intellectual property, they can
be
sued. That is why producers often seek
the cooperation of
public
figures and even their survivors.
Mike
Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 01:02:29 -0400
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From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: ESSENCE & LONGING
Mime-Version:
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Spam
thru the Beat Group, how crude. About a
year ago,
I ran a
footrace at McGregor, Iowa. There was
an old guy
there
(most people from Iowa are old, I'm not kidding, go
there
and you'll see) wearing a hat with Spam written on
it. He was some kind of a fanatic about it. He had toured
the
plant in Austin, Minnesota, and went to a Spam festival
somewhere. Apparently it was some kind of a company
public
relations
attempt at turning back the tide of bad pr for the
lunchmeat. They just got done dealing with the
aftermath of
World
War 11, and along comes this whole internet thing.
Mike
Rice
At
04:55 PM 9/20/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Chad
J Blanchard wrote:
>patricia
wrote,
>looks
like spam to me.
>p
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 01:12:43 -0400
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From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: backSPIN
In a
message dated 97-09-19 17:19:30 EDT, Sherri wrote:
<<
thanks for the forward. great letter from Barry!! i wonder if/when
objectivity will return to journalism?
ciao,
sherri >>
Welcome
back, Sherri.
I know
what you mean when you say this, but I have to differentiate between
publications
where journalism is actually practiced and the majority of
publications
available for sale today.
Journalists
who are serious about the profession (and there are many working
today)
are objective. They also voluntarily adhere to a code of ethics and
know
the difference between telling and "spinning" a story.
The
demand for infotainment and advertorials, coupled with some weird trend
that
has brought journalists out from behind the byline and into seats of
public
comment and opinion, has resulted in a pandemic of yellow journalism,
although
even that is too good a term for it. Dennis Cooper is not a
journalist,
and I daresay a review of the editorial board of SPIN, Rolling
Stone,
People, the New Yorker, and most popular media today would turn up no
journalists
whatsoever.
I'm
reminded of the George Will "obit" of Allen Ginsberg following the
poet's
death,
which was much less sympathetic than this piece on Burroughs. What
Will
advanced was not journalism, either. It was the power of the bully
pulpit,
wielded by some incredible egomaniac with an obvious inferiority
complex
and right-wing sentimentalities. And yet, it was offered for sale to
newspapers--journalistic
vehicles--all across America, and passed on to the
consumer
of the Op-Ed page.
It's
not so much that objectivity needs to return to journalism. It's that we
as
consumers need to realize the difference between people with agendae,
bankrolls
and an editorial agenda they want to advance and true journalism,
which
is fast becoming a lost art.
Just
because it's in a newspaper or magazine doesn't mean it's journalism.
Usually,
it's not.
--30--
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 06:15:01 UT
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: backSPIN
thanks,
Diane. what you say is quite true. but most of this garbage goes
under
the guise of journalism. and there are
"serious" journalists, who seem
to have
stepped into the sensationalist mire, that lends an air of legitimate
journalism
to fluff and "grab-the $$" tripe.
sadly,
the general public seems to have long ago lost the ability to think for
itself,
the only way its tastes will be changed, i fear, is if it's lead by
the
nose to some reality and objectivity - assuming that's possible.
ciao,
sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 03:51:26 -0400
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From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: backSPIN
Mime-Version:
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The
George Will piece was very interesting, if you ask me.
Will's
views on the counter-culture reveal an envy, the kind
of envy
you see from someone who was unable to participate in
the
events described. Will's underside has
been on view for
years. He hates baby-boomers, haight-ashbury,
anything that isn't
traditional
or white tie. In a word, George is a
square. He embraces
Baseball,
Reagan, Literature's Great Canon and all the other eternal
verities. His subtext is much more interesting than
his surface.
Keep
reading him, he's jealous! He's also a
great example of what
noone
should want to be.
Mike
Rice
At
01:12 AM 9/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In
a message dated 97-09-19 17:19:30 EDT, Sherri wrote:
><<
>
thanks for the forward. great letter
from Barry!! i wonder if/when
>
objectivity will return to journalism?
>
>
ciao,
>
sherri >>
>
>Welcome
back, Sherri.
>
>I
know what you mean when you say this, but I have to differentiate between
>publications
where journalism is actually practiced and the majority of
>publications
available for sale today.
>
>Journalists
who are serious about the profession (and there are many working
>today)
are objective. They also voluntarily adhere to a code of ethics and
>know
the difference between telling and "spinning" a story.
>
>The
demand for infotainment and advertorials, coupled with some weird trend
>that
has brought journalists out from behind the byline and into seats of
>public
comment and opinion, has resulted in a pandemic of yellow journalism,
>although
even that is too good a term for it. Dennis Cooper is not a
>journalist,
and I daresay a review of the editorial board of SPIN, Rolling
>Stone,
People, the New Yorker, and most popular media today would turn up no
>journalists
whatsoever.
>
>I'm
reminded of the George Will "obit" of Allen Ginsberg following the
poet's
>death,
which was much less sympathetic than this piece on Burroughs. What
>Will
advanced was not journalism, either. It was the power of the bully
>pulpit,
wielded by some incredible egomaniac with an obvious inferiority
>complex
and right-wing sentimentalities. And yet, it was offered for sale to
>newspapers--journalistic
vehicles--all across America, and passed on to the
>consumer
of the Op-Ed page.
>
>It's
not so much that objectivity needs to return to journalism. It's that we
>as
consumers need to realize the difference between people with agendae,
>bankrolls
and an editorial agenda they want to advance and true journalism,
>which
is fast becoming a lost art.
>
>Just
because it's in a newspaper or magazine doesn't mean it's journalism.
>Usually,
it's not.
> --30--
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 04:16:36 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: backSPIN
In a
message dated 97-09-21 02:14:47 EDT, you write:
<<
but most of this garbage goes under the guise of journalism. and there
are
"serious" journalists, who seem to have stepped into the
sensationalist
mire,
that lends an air of legitimate journalism to fluff and "grab-the $$"
tripe.
>>
I think
it's my civic responsibility (huh? wot's that?) to strip away the
guise,
always.
And any
"serious" journalist who steps into the sensationalist mire has lost
his/her
credentials. Period.
That
mire is Never-Never Land. That is the place where, once tainted, one can
never
return from. Harder than becoming a virgin all over again.
Just my
hard-headed, no bullshit, I'll-fight-anyone-who-poses point of view.
diane
<--- sleeps under newspapers because she likes it....
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 03:14:52 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: the flames
MIME-Version:
1.0
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7bit
testing
post
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 11:28:38 +0000
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: DuarteMoniz
<DuarteMoniz@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>
Subject: Re: Mime format
MIME-Version:
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Content-Transfer-Encoding:
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Bill
Gargan wrote:
> As
most of you on the list have noticed, mime format and photographs
> do
>
not travel well on Beat-l. It might be
better to mount such files on
> a
>
web page and provide listmembers with the url so t hat they can
>
download
>
them to their hard drives and read them with their browers.
Can't
agree with you. It may desencourage people to send photos and
photos
are great to see and rest awhile from all the texts. It was very
nice to
see some of you some time back.I also appreciate the posts with
full
articles that appear in the US media concerning the beats. It's the
only
way we (not residents in the USA) can have access to those prints.
I am
enjoying very much being with you all,
althought you didn't notice
my
presence up until now.
Duarte
Moniz
Portugal
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 07:16:44 +0000
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: HOW TO SING THE BLUES (fwd)
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couldn't
resist sending along this piece of spamedhumor: it's not jazz but i do
believe
that even beats gets the blues:
>
>>
>
>> (attrib. to Memphis Earlene
Gray with help from Uncle Plunky)
>
>>
>
>> 1. Most blues begin
"woke up this morning."
>
>>
>
>> 2. "I got a good
woman" is a bad way to begin the blues, unless you
>
>> stick something nasty in
the next line.
>
>>
>
>> I got a good woman--
>
>> with the meanest dog
in town.
>
>>
>
>> 3. Blues are simple. After you have the first line right, repeat
it.
>
>> Then find something that
rhymes. Sort of.
>
>>
>
>> Got a good woman
>
>> with the meanest dog
in town.
>
>> He got teeth like
Margaret Thatcher
>
>> and he weighs about
500 pounds.
>
>>
>
>> 4. The blues are not about
limitless choice.
>
>>
>
>> 5. Blues cars are Chevies and
Cadillacs. Other acceptable blues
>
>> transportation is
Greyhound bus or a southbound train.
Walkin'
>
>> plays a major part in the
blues lifestyle. So does fixin' to die.
>
>>
>
>> 6. Teenagers can't sing the
blues. Adults sing the blues. Blues
>
>> adulthood means old enough
to get the electric chair if you shoot a
>
>> man in Memphis.
>
>>
>
>> 7. You can have the blues in
New York City, but not in Brooklyn or
>
>> Queens. Hard times in Vermont or North Dakota are
just a
>
>> depression. Chicago, St. Louis and Kansas City are still the best
>
>> places to have the blues.
>
>>
>
>> 8. The following colors do
not belong in the blues:
>
>> a. violet
>
>> b. beige
>
>> c. mauve
>
>>
>
>> 9. You can't have the blues
in an office or a shopping mall, the
>
>> lighting is wrong.
>
>>
>
>> 10. Good places for the Blues:
>
>> a. the highway
>
>> b. the jailhouse
>
>> c. the empty bed
>
>>
>
>> Bad places:
>
>> a. Ashrams
>
>> b. Gallery openings
>
>> c. weekend in the
Hamptons
>
>>
>
>> 11. No one will believe it's
the blues if you wear a suit, unless you
>
>> happen to be an old black
man.
>
>>
>
>> 12. Do you have the right to
sing the blues?
>
>> Yes, if:
>
>> a. your first name is
a southern state -- like Georgia
>
>> b. you're blind
>
>> c. you shot a man in
Memphis.
>
>> d. you can't be
satisfied.
>
>>
>
>> No, if:
>
>> a. you were once blind
but now can see.
>
>> b. you're deaf
>
>> c. you have a trust
fund.
>
>>
>
>> 13. Neither Julio Iglesias nor
Barbra Streisand can sing the blues.
>
>>
>
>> 14. If you ask for water and
baby gives you gasoline, it's the blues.
>
>> Other blues beverages are:
>
>> a. Wine
>
>> b. Irish whiskey
>
>> c. Muddy water
>
>>
>
>> Blues beverages are NOT:
>
>> a. Any mixed drink
>
>> b. Any wine kosher for
Passover
>
>> c. Yoo Hoo (all
flavors)
>
>>
>
>> 15. If it occurs in a cheap
motel or a shotgun shack, it's blues death.
>
>> Stabbed in the back by a
jealous lover is a blues way to die. So
>
>> is the electric chair,
substance abuse, or being denied treatment in
>
>> an emergency room. It is not a blues death, if you die during a
>
>> liposuction treatment.
>
>>
>
>> 16. Some Blues names for Women
>
>> a. Sadie
>
>> b. Big Mama
>
>> c. Bessie
>
>>
>
>> 17. Some Blues Names for Men
>
>> a. Joe
>
>> b. Willie
>
>> c. Little Willie
>
>> d. Lightning
>
>>
>
>> Persons with names like
Sierra or Sequoia will not be permitted to
>
>> sing the blues no matter
how many men they shoot in Memphis.
>
>>
>
>> 17B. Other Blues Names
(Starter Kit)
>
>> a. Name of Physical
infirmity (Blind, Cripple, Asthmatic)
>
>> b. First name (see
above) or name of fruit (Lemon, Lime, Kiwi)
>
>> c. Last Name of
President (Jefferson, Johnson, Fillmore, etc.)
>
>>
>
>> Mix and Match
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 10:10:05 -0500
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From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: bardo
message
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All
week long I didn't want to go. I felt swept with anxiety and
decided
about 7 times I wouldn't go. James, who
never calls me, called
me
around 1:PM and said he was just checking in to make sure I knew to
come. Bob, John Myers, Lena and I drove out to
Wayne Propst's farm for
the
bardo around six. Wayne was a close and
dear friend to William and
an old
and dear friend to me. Wayne is a mad
scientist, ingenious with
all
things mechanical. I made a pasta
salad and John Myers took a six
pack..
Wayne and his family lives on lush river front land, lots of
outbuildings,
scene of hundreds of experiments and gatherings. William
really
never missed Wayne's parties. Lena
heard at school from a
friend,
who was also going to the bardo, that Wayne might blow something
up. The excitement builds when Wayne is involved.
Wayne place has an
old
farm house, many outbuildings, trees,
giant warm barn, his property
runs
along the Kansas river. (We call it the Kaw river), beautiful kaw
valley
bottoms.
The bardo is staged to be In front of
the barn, in a small pasture.
The big
barn doors open to the pasture, flooding light from one space
into
another, in the middle of the pasture there was a massive dome
shaped,
heavy wire cage with a wire door way ,
inside lumber,
fireworks,
pictures, and pages and pages of things that people brought,
and
were bringing. I guess one hundred and
fifty people. I knew a
hundred
of them, wide varieties of different
folks, overwhelming for
me,
actually exchanged cards with some kid that does
www.bourroughs.com.
, prefect weather, light breeze, around
60 degrees.
Around dusk, standing in front of the
barn, Wayne spoke (on a nice
speaker
system) then introduced James, Jim Gauerholz,. Now it is
getting
dark, James reads a farewell to
William's soul letter from
Ohle,
first by lighter, which of course at one point you heard a little
sound
from James\when it got hot , then someone brought forth a kerosene
lantern
from the barn, James then read a note
from Bill R. then James
said a
few things and then explained some of the Egyptian and Tibetan
Buddhistic
relationship in the ceremony, tying in
the significance of
Williams
writings in the "Western
Lands" .
Wayne goes to the dome and lights the fire and it was glorious, it
grew,
it swirled, popped, pulsed, danced. The cage was a dome about 12
feet
high and 20 feet across., things like pictures, posters, objects
d'art,
and many many papers laid on the lumber but
things and paper
also
hang suspended from the cage. Once the fire flowered, came
Williams
voice, reading from Western Lands. It
was perfect, I swear the
fire
danced with his voice. The Cheshire cat
had his smile but
William's
voice was the most evocative voice. I
got up and went nearer
the
fire, strode around the fire , circled
it three times. There is
some
great music, playing background on the tape of Williams voice, the
fire
crackles. Fire works are staged inside the cage with the boards,
and
objects, they go off in layers by heat and highth of the fire, there
is crackers,
roman candles, fountains , wild pictures in the fire,
colors
shooting out in unpredictable arks.
this fire is a masterpiece.
Tim Millers's boys and Waynes boy
Louie, dart back and forth in front
of the
fire, popping little sticks through an opening in the cage door.
Most
people sat in chairs and on benches in a large semi circle, music,
flames,
love. I stood up with James and Bill
Hatke, the sparks flew
wild. In the crowd was William's Dentist, Charley
Kincaid, (he had been
one of
the pall bearers at the Liberty Hall service) and he is the
wildest
funniest man with a wonderful good soul.
That guy can distract
you
from a root canal with his wit. Fred
Aldridge sat in one chair, He
shot
with William weekly for ten years or
more. Fred is a tall skinny
redhead,
I've known him for 30 years. I introduced William to Fred.
William
was like a father to Fred's soul.
Fred is a talented
musician,
artist, driven always to some elegant perfection. There were
the New
York suits standing in the barn, they
seemed to be having a
remarkably
good time and the most relaxed I had ever seen the suits. In
the
crowd are such a variety of people that I am stunned but recognize
that
these were all people that William had built a relationship with
over
the 16 years he had made Lawrence his home.
William loved persons
rather
than people, and he loved fun. It was a fun and a sober sight to
see the
embers chasing to the sky and think that's Williams soul flying
to the
western lands.
I feel when William first died, his
spirit was there in the room with
his
body, it was comforting. Then I felt his spirit whirling around the
world,
I almost know he went to Tangiers for a moment. I feel he is
gone. we have lots to do now.
>
Patricia
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 08:40:35 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: backSPIN
MIME-Version:
1.0
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. He hates baby-boomers, haight-ashbury,
anything that isn't
>
traditional or white tie. In a word,
George is a square. He embraces
>
Baseball, Reagan, Literature's Great Canon and all the other eternal
>
verities. His subtext is much more
interesting than his surface.
>
Keep reading him, he's jealous! He's
also a great example of what
>
noone should want to be.
>
>
>
>
Mike,
I think
most of what you say about G. Will is true, not sure about
giving
you "envy" but the rest of it.
But thank God the world is not
monochromatic. Will, wrong as he may be, can write and can
think well,
even if
he is often guilty of sophistry and glibness.
He is useful in
the
same way as Buckley is--they should
make one think. To simply
dismiss
someone like Will or Buckley because the are "rightwingers" is
no
better than it is for Will to dismiss everything someone like
Ginsberg
advocates because he was a leftist hippy.
I am
not at all sure they envy the other side.
Will lives very well.
What
makes you think that when he sits in splendor in Georgtown drinking
old and
expensive wine, Will is wishing for the
creative squalor of the
Haight?
J.
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 15:42:50 UT
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: backSPIN
goodo
for you!!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 16:01:57 UT
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: bardo message
Patricia
thank you for sharing this. very
moving. i've never had an
experience
like that, but it seems a beautiful way to say good bye.
hope
you're doing well.
ciao,
sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 16:10:22 UT
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From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
sorry,
my note to patricia was supposed to be backchannel. didn't mean to
load
you mailboxes.
ciao,
sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 09:24:22 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: bardo message
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IA0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogUGF0cmljaWEgRWxsaW90dCA8
cGVsbGlvdHRAU1VORkxPV0VSLkNPTT4NClRvOiBCRUFULUxAQ1VOWVZNLkNVTlkuRURVIDxCRUFU
LUxAQ1VOWVZNLkNVTlkuRURVPg0KRGF0ZTogU3VuZGF5LCBTZXB0ZW1iZXIgMjEsIDE5OTcgODoy
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c3NpbmcgeW91IGFyZSB0byB1cyBQYXRyaWNpYS4NCg0KPiAgICAgICAgSSBmZWVsIHdoZW4gV2ls
bGlhbSBmaXJzdCBkaWVkLCBoaXMgc3Bpcml0IHdhcyB0aGVyZSBpbiB0aGUgcm9vbSB3aXRoDQo+
aGlzIGJvZHksIGl0IHdhcyBjb21mb3J0aW5nLiBUaGVuIEkgZmVsdCBoaXMgc3Bpcml0IHdoaXJs
aW5nIGFyb3VuZCB0aGUNCj53b3JsZCwgSSBhbG1vc3Qga25vdyBoZSB3ZW50IHRvIFRhbmdpZXJz
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bm93Lg0KPj4gUGF0cmljaWENCj4uLQ0KVGhhbmsgeW91DQoNCmxlb24NCg0K
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 16:42:54 UT
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From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: bardo message
Leon -
i don't know what's going on - but everything you send to me is coming
out in
code!
:-(
sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 10:05:44 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: bardo message
MIME-Version:
1.0
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There
was something happening on my server. It is supposedly corrected now.
I
resent you the letter to you. Did it get there ok? Sorry for the hassle.
Please
tell me if you got it ungarbled now. Thanks
leon
-----Original
Message-----
From:
Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date:
Sunday, September 21, 1997 9:38 AM
Subject:
Re: bardo message
>Leon
- i don't know what's going on - but everything you send to me is
coming
>out
in code!
>:-(
>
>sherri
>.-
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 14:09:33 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: backSPIN
In a
message dated 97-09-21 11:45:21 EDT, The honorable James Stauffer wrote:
<<
Will, wrong as he may be, can write and can think well, even if he is
often
guilty of sophistry and glibness. He is
useful in the same way as
Buckley
is--they should make one think. To
simply dismiss someone like Will
or
Buckley because the are "rightwingers" is no better than it is for
Will to
dismiss
everything someone like
Ginsberg advocates because he was a leftist
hippy. >>
Since
I'm the one who applied the "rightwinger" label here, I feel
compelled
to
clarify the discussion.
Will's
piece, syndicated by the Washington Post on 9 April 1997, titled "The
Ginsberg
Commodity," demonstrated the same sort of skillful propagandizing
and
dehumanization practiced by other great communicators (Adolph Hitler, for
one,
Rush Limbaugh, for another).
I
certainly do not dismiss him, although I'd like to. I can't get to that
editorial
he wrote anymore via the Internet, and don't know if I have it in
hard
copy around here anywhere, but what he said about Ginsberg amounted not
to a
critique by a rational person with an opposing point of view, but a
personal
attack and diatribe against all who do not think like Will believes
we
should. Will is not a journalist; he's an editorialist and an apologist
for the
blinders-wearing rightest right wing. He reminds me, frighteningly,
of the
McCarthy types who ruled so much of thought (or tried to) in the late
Fifties
and early Sixties.
And
yes, his tone was decidedly envious. I wrote, half-jokingly to a friend,
that in
high school, Will probably wasn't asked to step outside and smoke a
joint
with the other kids during study hall, and has carried that resentment
ever
since. I remember also being impressed with how offended he was at the
size of
Ginsberg's obit in the major papers, including, ironically, the
NYTimes.
He has a serious case of "obit-envy," and my twisted little
emotional
brain was wondering what other issues of size and quantity he might
have lurking
in his mind, or parts south.
Okay,
that was crude. But editorials like Will's are the reason I feel so
motivated
to talk about this here, not just to defend Ginsberg, or to
demystify
Dennis Cooper. The point is (and Sherri really tried to make it in
the
first place) that people don't really realize the difference between
opinion
and journalism, and tend to take the media literally and then bemoan
the
loss of objectivity in journalism when, in fact, they're being fed a
personal
agenda. And George Will, a human being, has demonstrated that he has
a
profound agenda and a strong, personal dislike of Allen Ginsberg, as did
Dennis
Cooper in his pretend eulogy of WSB.
Part of
what made the Beats 'beat' was the way they not only looked behind
the
curtain, but actually tore the son-of-a-bitch down through their
writings,
readings, and lifestyle. Behind the newsprint-and-ink curtain of
today
are a whole bunch of egos with personal computers. They are not writing
history.
They are not writing fact. They are not journalists. They are people
who
have the power of the printing press and can use it any way they wish,
and
they are almost never objective.
I don't
wish to ban George Will or Dennis Cooper from writing. I just need to
say
that neither of them is a journalist, nor are they scholars or
historians.
They are both just voices, as I am, as you are, but they have the
advantage
of appearing legitimate because their opinions are presented for
consumption
by hundreds of thousands of people who read them over coffee and
scrambled
eggs, and don't always stop to notice how much of what they say is
not
only opinion, but revisionistic lying.
--30--
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 14:12:33 -0400
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Marlene Giraud <M84M79@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Life & Times of Allen Ginsberg
Mike,
I don't
want to sound pushy or anything, but i really don't think it was
supposed
to be Jack, but i'm just taking it from the context of the letter.
So,
maybe i'm wrong, but that will change my entire opinion about the movie.
So, was
the character "Benjamin" supposed to be Allen? I suspected that the
director
threw him in it for fun. Its not that I want to prove you wrong, but
Keanu
Reeves as JK, gimme a break, that would be awful. If anyone has any
info.
to add about this, i would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.
~~Marlene
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 14:25:39 +0000
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: bardo message
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loud
and clear, leon!
mc
Leon
Tabory wrote:
>
There was something happening on my server. It is supposedly corrected now.
> I
resent you the letter to you. Did it get there ok? Sorry for the hassle.
>
Please tell me if you got it ungarbled now. Thanks
>
>
leon
>
>
-----Original Message-----
>
From: Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>
Date: Sunday, September 21, 1997 9:38 AM
>
Subject: Re: bardo message
>
>
>Leon - i don't know what's going on - but everything you send to me is
>
coming
>
>out in code!
>
>:-(
>
>
>
>sherri
>
>.-
>
>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 14:35:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marlene Giraud <M84M79@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Life & Times of Allen Ginsberg
Mike,
mike, mike,
Bruce
was right, and the letter was from Neal to Jack. How can you be so
adamant
about a movie you hardly remember? It was put on the screen because
the
letter was famous. Jack said as a respose to Neal's letter, "I thought it
ranked
among the best things ever written in America..." So its very
plausible
that a movie would be made from it. And in my humble opinion, Neal
needed
no "seasoning" He was the epitimy of spice. Red hot and exploding.
Thanks.
~~Marlene
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 14:36:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: cross post on Kerouac from Dylan
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Here is
a cross post from the Dylan group on Kerouac's influence on
Dylan
and Angels.
ubject:
Re: Angel
Date:
Sat, 20 Sep 1997 23:27:32 -0500
From:
John Mulligan & Claire Piper <spirit@TOWNSQR.COM>
_________________________Cross
post below ________________________
My take
on Angel, for what it's worth, has always been that the line
simply
refers
to one of Bob's hipster friends; in my minds eye a young (as Bob
himself
was when he wrote the line) pretty boy. Dylan was hugely
influenced
by the
Beats and Kerouac made use of the term angel quite a bit.
remember
Desolation
Angels? In this kerouac book Jack and his friends, notably
one
based
on poet Gary Snyder, climb and spend time in the Desolation
Mountains.
To
Kerouac, his friends the Beats are beatified, hence they are angels,
hence
Angel.
John
Mulligan
spirit@townsqr.com
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 16:08:26 -0400
Reply-To: atrigili@lynx.dac.neu.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tony Trigilio
<atrigili@LYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU>
Organization:
Northeastern University
Subject: Re: backSPIN & envy
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Mike
Rice wrote:
>
>
The George Will piece was very interesting, if you ask me.
>
Will's views on the counter-culture reveal an envy, the kind
> of
envy you see from someone who was unable to participate in
>
the events described.
I
agree: repressed envy usually simmers
around these kind of pieces,
and
Will's obit in particular is no exception.
Norman
Podhoretz confesses this envy himself in his essay I quoted on
the
list a few weeks ago, "My War With Allen Ginsberg" (from the August
1997
issue of *Commentary*). I don't have
the piece in front of me, so
can
only paraphrase. Podhoretz admits in
the essay that envy helped
fuel
his anti-Beat polemics. Maybe readers
of his antagonistic essays
have
suspected as much over the years, but these kind of suspicions are
difficult
to prove. As I said a few weeks ago,
the essay is worth
reading,
if anything for Podhoretz's honesty.
Tony
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Yes,
I'd swim in coffee if it wasn't too hot.
But
the
trouble is, it's too hot. And expensive."
--Ed
Poindexter
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 16:48:55 -0000
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "Bruce W. Hartman, Jr."
<bwhartmanjr@INAME.COM>
Subject: Re: Life & Times of Allen Ginsberg
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Leon,
I finally took a moment out to read
the "Joan Anderson" letter as it is
presented
in The Beat Reader. To me, the movie
seemed pretty faithful.
How,
exactly, do you think it wasn't? I'm
not trying to be antagonistic,
just
curious for your interpretation.
always
my best to you,
Bruce
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 05:27:25 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: backSPIN
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>
Diane De Rooy:
>
Okay, that was crude. But editorials like Will's are the reason I feel
> so
>
motivated to talk about this here, not just to defend Ginsberg, or to
>
demystify Dennis Cooper. The point is (and Sherri really tried to make
> it
in
>
the first place) that people don't really realize the difference
>
between
>
opinion and journalism, and tend to take the media literally and then
>
bemoan
>
the loss of objectivity in journalism when, in fact, they're being fed
> a
>
personal agenda. And George Will, a human being, has demonstrated that
> he
has
> a
profound agenda and a strong, personal dislike of Allen Ginsberg, as
>
did
>
Dennis Cooper in his pretend eulogy of WSB.
The
point is that there is a big difference between an editorial and an
article. Dennis Cooper was not out of line in writing
a negative
editorial
about Burroughs, he was out of line because he didn't get his
facts
straight. If George Will syndicates his
editorials and sends them
out
across the country, there is also nothing wrong with that, if they
appear
as his column. I don't know the creditionals, if any, of either of
these
people. But the fact that they print
opinion in an editorial does
not
diminish the fact they might be journalists when covering other
stories. That is the greatness of a free press. You can say anything
you
want to, be it a personal agenda or not.
The opponents of Burroughs
and
Ginsberg have just as much right to their opinion as we do to ours.
As you
pointed out, the fine line comes when someone reading it doesn't
understand
the difference between an editorial and serious journalism
that
covers both sides of an issue.
Intelligent, educated people know
the
difference. The fact that masses of
people might not know the
difference
doesn't mean editorials shouldn't be printed, it means that
those
who want the other side to be seen need to be vocal. They need to
write
letters to the editor. And any
newspaper or magazine that is
serious
about its intent will print the letters.
It is especially
important
now that Ginsberg, Kerouac, and Burroughs are gone, that
through
"writings, readings, and lifestyle" we carry on the meaning and
integrity
of their works in any way that we can.
That we take the
responsibility
to see that there are as many people writing favorable
opinions
and articles as there are negative ones.
You can never silence
those
that disagree with the voices of the beats and you can never
educate
the masses in their ignorance. All you
can do is fight for the
truth
in every way you can, and make sure that those with a personal
agenda
in ther public media are countered by the other side.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 23:30:30 +0200
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Janine Pommy Vega.
In-Reply-To: <199709200006.BAA15702@ns.ulisse.it>
Mime-Version:
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Which
Side Are You On? by
Janine Pommy Vega
Where
does my anger come from
at the laziness, the prosaic?
How
many times will you enter a room
and leave it vacant: in and out,
in and
out, visiting a temple of possibility
and
never leave a gift on the altar?
Come
down to the river of your own soul, we are
excavating
here,
the yellow helmets you see are so many
suns on
the horizon, going down and coming up
in no
particular time sequence or order.
When
one flower opens, Kabir says,
ordinarily
dozens
open. I'm digressing.
Every
time you visit yourself without
respect, you lose. Without love,
Also.
Read
the coins you've thrown down into the dirt,
they
spell integrity. You recall those
early
moments in
your
young life when you sang. And we were
witnesses-- if not then, now. We can
see you
outside
the ordinary, grab onto a miracle and
understand
it was no more you than the
wind.
Oh, so
that's it, finally:
No more
you or me than that mountain
there. And no mountain either.
Which side are you on?
Eastern
Correctional Facility, Napanock, NY, June 6,1996
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 17:57:50 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: backSPIN
In a
message dated 97-09-21 17:19:20 EDT, Diane Carter wrote:
<<
That is the greatness of a free press.
You can say anything
you want to, be it a personal agenda or
not. >>
You
might want to check out The Associated Press Stylebook and Libel Manual
on this
point before making such a broad generalization.
I am
not talking about stifling a free press or First Amendment rights. I'm
simply
making a point that there are many poseurs in the media today who
accidentally
or deliberately define "journalism."
If
you're unclear about my point of view, you can certainly find out more by
studying
the publications and websites of voluntary societies journalists
conform
to, for the purpose of maintaining objectivity and separating that
from
opinion. These include Accuracy in Media, The American Journalism
Review,
and the Society for Professional Journalists.
There
is a grey area here, Diane, and that's the one people always end up
arguing
about. When does the right of one person supersede the right of
another?
People
can write all the negative things they want to all day long, and they
will.
But when they try to pass that off as journalism, that is where I draw
the
line.
Dennis
Cooper is a writer and a poet. George Will is a political commentator.
Each of
them wrote about a famous dead person after that person's death. Each
of them
lied in the course of their writing about their subjects. How many
readers
knew that? How many readers thought they were reading something they
assumed
was the truth? We're not talking about the National Enquirer here.
We're
talking about mainstream publications that are taken seriously by their
markets.
That's
the beauty--and the downside--of a free press. But please, don't think
I would
ever advocate for anything else.
Nevertheless,
freedom is not license.
Curiously,
I ran across an interesting bit from a letter in Hunter S.
Thompson's
exhaustive archive today that echoes from the past: "Indeed, much
of what
Thompson wrote about the profession in a 1958 letter to Editor &
Publisher
magazine sounds like a bullseye assessment of journalism's present
state:
"For my money, [journalism] has nearly tumbled head over heels in its
hurry
to toss away its integrity and compromise with the public taste, the
mass
intellect and the self-sighted demands of profit-hungry advertisers . .
.
"
Pete
Rose will never be in the Hall of Fame because he was caught gambling. A
vegetarian
who eats a Big Mac is no longer a vegetarian. A reporter who
writes
opinion is no journalist.
As
fascinating as this must be to the 262 consumers of the Beat-L list (more
comic
relief), I'm going to bow out of this dialog listwise now. Please feel
free to
continue the discussion with me at ddrooy@aol.com.
Sincerely,
An
"Intelligent, educated, people" who's is "fight[ing] for the
truth in
every
way [she] can, [to] make sure that those with a personal agenda in ther
public
media are countered by the other side,"
diane
de rooy
dig?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 18:48:33 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: patriotism
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Happy
last day of summer!
I can't
help but feel that the Beats, particularly Ginsberg and Kerouac,
have
strong adherence to America. Ginsberg refers to the America, "where
we hug
and kiss the United States under our bedsheets, the United States
who
coughs all night and won't let us sleep" (Howl, pt. 3). The love is
qualified,
but it can hardly be stated more directly. _On the Road_ often
seems
like a Valentine to America and its people (other than the
"slopjaws"
of Washington and the police). We also need to remember
Kerouac's
first meeting with Kesey, where Jack, invited to sit on a
flag-covered
sofa, folded up the flag in careful boy-scout fashion.
Perhaps
the essence of the conflict here can best be addressed by George
Orwell,
in a sadly neglected essay "Notes on Nationalism":
"By
'nationalism' I mean first of all the habit of assuming that human
beings
can be classified like insects and that whole blocks of millions or
tens of
millions of people can be confidently labelled 'good' or 'bad.'
But
secondly--and this is much more important--I mean the habit of
identifying
oneself with a single nation or other unit, placing it beyond
good
and evil and recognising no other duty than that of advancing its
interests.
Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. Both words
are
normally used in so vague a way that any definition is liable to be
challenged,
but one must draw a distinction between them, since two
different
and even opposing ideas are involved. By 'patriotism' I mean
devotion
to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one
believes
to be the best in the world but has no wish to force upon other
people.
Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and
culturally.
Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire
for
power."
In
these terms, the Beats, particularly Kerouac, Ginsberg, and Corso, are
patriotic,
but not nationalistic.
Does
this make sense?
Cordially,
Michael
Skau
9/21/97
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 21:45:34 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Jonathan Pickle
<jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Dylan influenced by Kerouac?]
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At
09:50 PM 9/19/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Here
is an interesting post from the Dylan news group, one more to
>follow.
>
>Peace,
>--
>Bentz
>bocelts@scsn.net
>
>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclawPath:
>
Supernews69!Supernews60!supernews.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!cpk-news-hub1.bbnpl
ane
>
t.com!su-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsgate.tandem.com!uun
et!
>
in3.uu.net!208.206.146.5!news.velocity.net!not-for-mail
>From:
"Justin Mando" <jmando@velocity.net>
>Newsgroups:
rec.music.dylan
>Subject:
Dylan influenced by Kerouac?
>Date:
Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:48:07 -0400
>Organization:
Velocity.Net
>Message-ID:
<5vmu9u$g6r$1@news.velocity.net>
>NNTP-Posting-Host:
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>X-Newsreader:
Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.0544.0
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>Xref:
Supernews69 rec.music.dylan:93781
>
>Hello
fellow Dylan listeners,
>
>I
was wondering if anyone knows if Dylan was at all influenced by Jack
>Kerouac. I just finished "On The Road" and
it makes me think about Dylan.
>It
seems his music was influenced by Kerouac or other "beat" writers
such
>as
Ginsberg or Burroughs possibly. If
anyone knows an answer to this
>please
let me know. Thanks. I will leave this with the coolest quote
>ever.
>
>"The
only ones for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad
>to
talk, and mad to be saved, the ones who are desirous of everything at
>the
same time, the ones that never yawn or says a commonplace thing, but
>burn,
burn, burn like fabulous yellow Roman candles like spiders across the
>stars
and the blue centerlight pops and everybody goes 'Awww!'" --Jack
>Kerouac
>
>
>Justin
Mando
>jmando@velocity.net
>
>
Of
course Dylan was influenced by Kerouac.
During the Rolling Thunder
Revue
tour of the mid seventies, he was near Lowell and he stopped of at
Jack's
grave and held a vigil there and played songs for Jack.
Jon
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 22:11:22 -0400
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: mass suicide postings
Question:
(since this is one of the recent threads, anyway)
when
exactly did The Last Time I Commited Suicide come out? I've been
assuming
that it's already available on video, but in the neighborhood
vidoe
store tonite I saw a poster hanging underneath the "coming soon"
sign,
& the poster was for LTICS, so now I'm confused. Esp. since I never
remember
it ever being in the theatres...I thought this was a past movie,
not
recent. Or is my video store just slow?
But I
did make sure to check the fine print on the poster where they list
the
actors & teh directors, etc, & there it was: "Based on a Letter by
Neal
Cassady." Made me proud to read that.
Diane.
(H)
--
I
should have loved a thunderbird instead. --Sylvia Plath
Diane
M. Homza
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 19:35:23 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
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From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: backSPIN
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Diane
and Tony,
I never
like to find myself on the wrong side of an argument with those
I
respect, particularly on an issue I don't have a deep feeling about,
but
since I am the one that put myself in the rather difficult and not
entirely
characteristic position of defending George Will I will make
one
more argument on this thread and respectfully let in rest.
Both of
you and Diane Carter have pointed to the difference between
editorial
writing and reporting. The Spin piece I
did not read and from
what I
gathered it is at least factually substantially inaccurate. Will
certainly
doesn't even claim to be a reporter but a commentator. Some
polemic
is natural in that role. It's poartly what he's getting paid to
do. Arouse argument. Certainly we know enough when reading editorial
comment
to know that we are reading an argument rather than a recitation
of
facts and to take into account the bias of the writer who is
generally
someone whose basic assumptions we already know. We know what
kind of
"spin" to expect and react accordingly. At least that is the way
I think
I generally read columnists. There are
people I almost never
agree
with but still can't resist reading. Do we really think that the
American
reader is so stupid that he believes everything he sees in a
newspaper
or magazine.
I have
only vague memories of Wills piece on AG and thought it was
weaker
than usual for him. Will strongly
dislikes AG, I strongly love
him. But as I remember Will's take it goes
something like this. He
sees
Allan as one of those who helped destroy a set of rules, chemical,
sexual,
and political that Will sees as fundamental to social order. As
a
result of Allan's impact on America he sees social breakdown. It is
hard to
argue that everyone who has followed to some extent that sort of
path
that Allan appeared to advocate has escaped without scratch. The
beat
and post beat life path exposes one to real risks. Our history is
full of
madness, overdoses and some damn difficult lives. Living outside
the law
ain't easy, I personally feel that the
risk was worth it. I
took my
risks knowingly and for the most part have survived them. Lots
didn't. Therefore it doesn't suprise me that for
someone who strongly
values
an ordered and traditional value structure finds the effect of
Allan
on the culture to have been a bad thing.
It is easy for even
those
of us who loved the sixties to find aspects of them that are easy
to
ridicule. Does anyone remember Richard
Brautigan's buffallo hunt in
Golden
Gate Park, for example. That Will comes
down on the side of
order
rather than risk doesn't make him a fascist murder of millions
like Hitler
or a ranting maniac like Limbaugh. I am
a little amazed,
Diane,
that you would make the Hitler analogy for a mild mannered bow
tied
nerd like Will.
I would
also argue that it is possible to not even envy this life
style. Podherz certainly does admit envy in the
piece Tony posted
earlier--but
it was primarily envy of Ginsberg's influence, was it not,
rather
than the life he lived. Maybe George
wanted to get asked outside
to
smoke a joint. Maybe he didn't. Are we arguing that everyone would
be a
hippy if they had only been invited to join? Or that there are no
other
legitimate choices?
I think
that is what bothers me about this thread.
The assumption that
if
someone doesn't like the guys we like they aren't just wrong, or
have
different tastes but lying, envious duplicitous bastards. It's the
flip
side of what the "fascists" are always supposed to be doing--simply
dismissing
anything which challenges their assumptions because they
don't
like the life style. Why is calling
something "right wing" enough
to make
something automatically wrong? Is
"left wing" automatically
right? That kind of thinking is what got well
meaning American leftists
caught
in the position defending Stalin's
slaughter of his own
people.
But
enough of this before I get called a "fascist ditto head" as I did
during
some old Beat-L flame war. I love you
all.
J.
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:04:30 -0700
Reply-To: mike@buchenroth.com
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List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael L. Buchenroth"
<mike@BUCHENROTH.COM>
Organization:
Buchenroth Publishing Company
Subject: Re: Janine Pommy Vega.
Comments:
cc: rinaldo@gpnet.it
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Rinaldo
Rasa wrote:
>
Which Side Are You On?
by Janine Pommy Vega
***
To view
a photo of Janine Pommy Vega, Josh Norton, Allen Ginsberg,
Elizabeth
Plymell, and Pamela Beach Plymell seated at the Plymell's
dining
room table in Cherry Valley, NY go to
http://www.buchenroth.com/gnsbpomy.jpg
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 02:00:11 -0700
Reply-To: mike@buchenroth.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael L. Buchenroth"
<mike@BUCHENROTH.COM>
Organization:
Buchenroth Publishing Company
Subject: Re: Life & Times of Allen Ginsberg
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Bob
Whiteley wrote:
>
> In
regards to the Keanu Reeves portrayal in "the last time I committed
***
In the
letter, Neal Cassady writes, "I was almost past this bar when I
glanced
up to see my younger blood-brother inside drinking beer alone."
Portable
Beat Reader; ed Ann Charters, (Pinguin, 1992), New York, p 201.
and in
last paragraph N Cassady writes, "as I drank my last
blood-brother
beer ..." (p 208)
***
I have
looked in Holy Goof, First Third, Grace
Meets Karma, Off the
Road,
the Tom Christopher book, "Neal Cassady, volume One
***
Neal
only had older half brothers. His only full sibling and younger
full or
half sibling was Shirley Cassady. At bottom of page 201 Cassady
called
this blood-brother Bill. So he could refer to Bill Cannastra who
drank
abundantly and had head decapitated hanging out train window and
friend
of Kerouac, Bill Tomson who introduced Neal to Carolyn for first
time
and oftentimes brooded over women and would have felt like Neal
owed
him Cherry Mary as Neal had stolen Carolyn from him, Neal's half
brother
(oldest) who died May 22, 1936 when family lived on Champa
Street or
as some combination or fictional characteras in letter Neal
referred
to letter as a story.
Who
really knows????
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:17:24 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "Jon B. Pearlstone"
<THYE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Looking forward to participating in
group
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Greetings:
I just
stumbled into the Beat Generation list and I am anxious to exchang=
e
ideas
with others who are into the Beats. In
addition to a strong intere=
st
in the
works of Kerouac, I also have been strongly influenced by Alan Wat=
ts.
Although Watts was never included in the
official Beat Generation, he
brought
the influence of Zen to many major Beat figures and interacted wi=
th
the
Beats regularly. He recently came out
with an audio cassette version=
of
his
book: Zen and the Beat Way that I used
as a basis for an "Alternativ=
e
Entrerpeneur"
column I write for a business publication. =20
I would
be very interested in feedback from the group on my column, Watts=
and
any
other views that are on your minds.
Looking forward to hearing from =
you.
Here is
the column:
Time is
WHAT?=20
The Beat Way to Entrepreneurism
By
J Pearlstone
Time is
money, right? While many believe
time represents money, most
would
be better off defining it as something else.
My personal experien=
ces
and a
little American history will help prove my point.=20
Last
year, I semi-retired at the age of 33,
sacrificing a significant in=
come
for no
structure whatsoever. It was a
difficult decision. However, a ye=
ar
later,
I am happier than ever. I now see my
biggest obstacle to happines=
s
was the
=93time is money=94 trap. In essence,
this trap is the belief th=
at work
must be
endured in exchange for maximum financial gain.
Many
entrepreneurs are caught in this trap. Are you? Take the following
brief
quiz and find out:
=09
Question 1 Do you love the work you do each day?
Question 2 Would you do your job for free?
.
If your
answer to either question is no, welcome to =93the trap=94. Now,=
you
might
argue that you can love work even though you require compensation f=
or
it. This argument doesn=92t hold up when you
think of other things you l=
ove to
do and
take the same quiz. Not only would most
do other activities they =
love
for
free--they often pay good money to do them.
=20
In my
case, once I realized I didn=92t love my job for the sake of the wo=
rk
itself,
I decided to find a more fulfilling use
of my time, even if it m=
eant
less
income. In other words--time could no
longer be money. =20
If time
isn=92t money, then what is it? =20
Like
many good questions, there is no easy answer.
It has been hard to
explain
my semi-retirement to friends and business associates. The reaso=
ns I
give
usually result in blank stares and comments like, =93Well, good luck=
,
anyway=94. But, recently I found there are precedents
for my feelings. =
Here=92s
an
example:
=93We make a very destructive division
between work and play. We spend =
eight
hours, or whatever it may be, at work
in order to earn the money to enjo=
y
ourselves in the other eight
hours. And this is a perfectly
ridiculous =
way
of =20
living.=94
Alan Watts From Zen and the Beat Way, Tuttle, 1997
Before
you picture me wearing a Nehru jacket and Birkenstocks, let me cle=
arly
state
that I=92m not a Beatnik or a Zen Buddhist.
This quote simply expr=
esses
my
feelings accurately. The quote doesn=92t completely answer the questio=
n of
what
time is, but it does explain why time should not be money.
Apparently, the =93time is money=94 trap has been around awhile, as t=
his
quote
is from a radio show in 1959.
I dug a
little further and found other similarities between my outlook an=
d
the
philosophies of the Beat Generation of the 50=92s and 60=92s. They d=
isliked
the
label =93Beat Generation=94, just as I dislike being labeled anti-bus=
iness.
The Beats were simply people willing to
acknowledge their lack of
fulfillment
with societal norms. They wanted to
follow their hearts to f=
ind
activities
that were meaningful to them. Watts
continues:
=93....And so a lot of young men have
come to the realization that inste=
ad of
=20
making money to live some other
time--that is, after hours, or
when
they =20
retire---they have decided they should do what they really wa=
nt
to do now,=20
come what may....=94
I=92ll
update this quote by adding that I=92m sure many young women feel =
the
same
way.
Please
don=92t let these ideas fool you into thinking that I=92m saying =93=
time is
play=94. Work is definitely worthwhile--when it=92s
fulfilling. And th=
ere is
nothing
wrong with realizing a financial gain from your work. In fact, I
recommend
it highly as a way to pay your bills.
On the other hand, enjoy=
ing
what
you do is more important than earning every possible dollar you can.
Therefore, during my first year of
semi-retirement, I=92ve looked for pr=
ojects
I love
first, and have the potential for
financial gain second.
With
one year under my belt, I have begun several projects ranging from
developing
a new form of retirement planning to acting in theater and
commercial
productions. Since I am not guaranteed
any compensation, I am
free to
work on each project whenever I like (which in the case of my pro=
ject
to
establish myself as a columnist is currently 10:50 on a Sunday night).=
=20
I
suspect juggling many projects will slow down the financial results of =
all
of
them. Factor in the option of dropping
or adding projects, and an act=
ive
family
and personal schedule (plus the many times I choose to do nothing)=
,
and you
can see why succeeding by today=92s entrepreneurial standards wil=
l be
challenging--and risky.
But, for me, this =93Beat Way=94
of entreprene=
urism
is
more
rewarding than living in the =93time is money=94 trap for 30 years t=
o only
then
begin pursuing your passions. =20
I=92m
off to a great start. I love what
I=92m doing, and, a few of my p=
rojects
have
started making money. Not nearly as
much I used to make in cold, ha=
rd
cash,
but significantly more when I include the value of my quality of li=
fe.=20
And
that, for me, is the answer to the question:
Time is quality of li=
fe.
=20
In the
1950s-60s, exciting, new ideas came
from Kerouac=92s classic book=
On
the
Road, Allen Ginsberg=92s poetry, and Alan Watts=92 explanations of Ze=
n. I am
combining
the best of the Beat Generation's ideas with the entrepreneuria=
l
spirit
of the 90=92s. My escape from =93the
trap=94 may not convince yo=
u the
=93Beat
Way=94 is right for you, but it should convince you to think abou=
t what
time is
to you and if it makes you happy. After
all, as any Zen master o=
r
your
attorney will tell you, time is all you=92ve got.
J
Pearlstone, a 34 year old entrepreneur from St. Louis, is now semi-reti=
red
and
works on various projects between mountain bike rides to the beach in=
the
San
Francisco Bay area.
c 1997
J Pearlstone
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 01:02:45 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Life & Times of Allen Ginsberg
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I
rented this movie yesterday at Blockbuster, so it is in the stores, and I
also
never saw that it played in any theaters.
The
Reeves character was portrayed as older, in his early thirties in the
movie. In first third he describes him as the
younger blood-brother as Bob
related
in this quote: "I was almost past this bar when I
glanced
up to see my younger blood-brother inside drinking beer alone." I
don't
know why they changed it. And blood
brother is never the biological
brother,
it's a good great friend. Boys'll cut
their thumbs and let the
blod
run together to become blood brothers.
Also,
the movie had the Reeves character go outside and beg Cassady to go
in the
bar and drink, much different than in the book.
>Bob
Whiteley wrote:
>>
>>
In regards to the Keanu Reeves portrayal in "the last time I committed
>***
>In
the letter, Neal Cassady writes, "I was almost past this bar when I
>glanced
up to see my younger blood-brother inside drinking beer alone."
>Portable
Beat Reader; ed Ann Charters, (Pinguin, 1992), New York, p 201.
>and
in last paragraph N Cassady writes, "as I drank my last
>blood-brother
beer ..." (p 208)
>***
>I
have looked in Holy Goof, First Third,
Grace Meets Karma, Off the
>Road,
the Tom Christopher book, "Neal Cassady, volume One
>***
>Neal
only had older half brothers. His only full sibling and younger
>full
or half sibling was Shirley Cassady. At bottom of page 201 Cassady
>called
this blood-brother Bill. So he could refer to Bill Cannastra who
>drank
abundantly and had head decapitated hanging out train window and
>friend
of Kerouac, Bill Tomson who introduced Neal to Carolyn for first
>time
and oftentimes brooded over women and would have felt like Neal
>owed
him Cherry Mary as Neal had stolen Carolyn from him, Neal's half
>brother
(oldest) who died May 22, 1936 when family lived on Champa
>Street
or as some combination or fictional characteras in letter Neal
>referred
to letter as a story.
>Who
really knows????
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 07:39:28 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender:
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: october's Cover of the Month and Web
Page Update!
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loved
it, paul. mc
Paul A.
Maher Jr. wrote:
>
The Cover of the Month is now ready with a sincere thanks to Bill Gargan for
>
the scan. The Kerouac Quarterly Web Page has been updated as well. Please
>
visit us at:
>
>
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/page5.html
>
> Thank-you! Paul of
TKQ...
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 12:56:13 BST
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Tom Harberd
<T.E.Harberd@UEA.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: something to SPIN...
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>
> I
read Naked Lunch in 1970 and think nothing of it. I
>
can't remember much about it, except that there was
little]
> in
it that you could interpret let alone remember. I have
>
been hearing that Burroughs wrote a book called Junkie. I
> am
hoping he might have written it before Naked Lunch, and
that
> it
might be autobiographical. Could
someone tell me when
it
>
was written, and, briefly, what it is about.
Junky
was WSB's first book. Needing money
(and, I think,
prompted
by Kerouac and Ginsberg), he wrote what is
essentially
a "how I became a junky, and what junky life is
like
book". Like Queer, his other
semi-autobiographical
book,
it is written staightforward without any of the
literary
experiments of later years. Some people
find it
fascinating. As for myself, as an admirer of Burrough's
more
experimental stuff, it seems too plain and simplistic.
The point was, after all, money.
Tom H.
http://www.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759
"A
Bear of Very Little Brain"
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:03:58 BST
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Tom Harberd
<T.E.Harberd@UEA.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: something to SPIN...
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=20
[snip]
I agree =97 absolutely absurd! I had a
graduate (500) level
Literature
=
instructor
at Ohio State University tell our Contemporary
American
=
literature
class (1950 to present), Ken Kesey hadn't yet
ingested
LSD or =
any
hallucinogenic substance prior to writing "One Flew Over
the =
Cuckoo's
Nest!" Dr. Weatherford insisted, "No writer could
write
such =
prose
while high." The quarter a prior, I had just finished
Thompson's,
=
"Hells
Angels," "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas," and Wolf's
"Electric
=
Kool
Aid Acid Test"
And the
strange thing? That it says in the
Electric Cool
Aid
Acid Test that Kesey saw parts of the book (Cuckoo's
Nest)
while on acid, articularly the visions that Chief has
of
faces in the fog. It says something
about Kesey seeing
these
faces from time to time, and one in particular
gradually
got clearer and clearer: the Indian Chief.
Tom H.
http://www.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759
"To
Know and be Not Knowing"
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:27:24 -0400
Reply-To: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UNDERGRAD.MATH.UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Barrry Miles' response to SPIN
In-Reply-To:
<970919163934_-28729512@emout16.mail.aol.com>
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I just
wanted to applaud Barry Miles for his letter to the editors of
SPIN.
Thankfully someone with clout is taking on the task of trying to set
some of
those unfounded allegations straight.
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:54:06 -0400
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From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UNDERGRAD.MATH.UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Burroughs on Journalism
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In the
light of the recent debate about journalism, editorials, and
slanderous
garbage that appears in magazines and newspapers these days,
here's
WSB on the rags:
"Journalism
is closer to the magical origin of writing than most fiction.
That
is, at least a few operators in this area-- people like the late
Hearst
and Henry Luce-- certainly quite clearly and consciously saw
journalism
as a magical operation designed to bring about certain effects.
And the
technology is the technology of magic: in the case of newspapers
and
magazines, mostly black magic. They stick pins in someone's image and
then
show that image to millions of people." The Adding Machine, pg. 48
The
rest of the essay is worth reading as well. He talks about how easy it
is to
insert false information and events that never occured-- both
practiced
by Dennis Cooper, incidentally, as my post on the details of his
article
demonstrated. Burroughs was a veteran of bad press, and I mean bad
in the
sense of the negative light in which he was thrown, and in the
absence
of integrity in the journalist involved.
Whether
someone considers themselves a journalist or an editorial writer,
I
believe they should have a commitment to themselves and their readers to
at
least try to get the facts straight, and not egregiously misrepresent
their
subject. Cooper did neither. As a student, if I ever handed in a
paper
as poorly researched as Mr. Cooper's piece, I would be failed, and
probably
advised to find another faculty. Why should that integrity be a
part of
my scholastic endeavour where the paper would only be read by two
people
(me and the prof), but not for someone writing for a readership as
wide as
SPIN's?
I guess
this is partially adressed to James Stauffer: I am bewildered by
your
defense of Cooper when it is perfectly obvious he is either guilty of
outright
lying, or at the very least of not doing his homework.
Neil
PS In
the rest of the Burroughs essay I quoted (Ten Years and a Billion
Dollars),
we find out that the character of Mr. Hart-- the man who will
not
permit the word DEATH to be uttered in his presence-- is in fact based
on
William Randolph Hearst. Nice to find out these little tidbits here and
there,
much like in Patricia's post about the old man by the river, as he
appears
in The Western Lands.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:54:37 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: october's Cover of the Month and Web
Page Update!
Mime-Version:
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At
07:39 AM 9/22/97 +0000, you wrote:
>loved
it, paul. mc
>
My
pleasure Marie and all at Beat-L, please send in more cover scans!Thanks,
Paul of
TKQ...
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 09:33:39 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Burroughs on Journalism
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Neil
Had no
intention of defending Cooper.
Apologize for the
misunderstanding.
J.
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:57:06 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: bardo what was said
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Two
additional notes, Sue Brossiau, (Divid Ohles' wife), mentioned that
the
fire cage was one that wayne and William had made for a bardo they
held
for Allen G.
Also I
had mis heard who the second letter was from that james read at
the
bardo; for a little illumination here is approximately what james
said.
James
Grauerholz: remarks at William's Bardo
Burn, 9/20/97
Why are
we here?
Each
and every one of us has a different answer to that question, and we
can
meditate
on those reasons while we take part in this event tonight.
It has
something to do with our hosts, Wayne and Carol, and I know we
all
thank them
for making this gathering possible.
It has
something to do with Lawrence, our community - not the
"metropolis"
of
Lawrence,
frankly - but the community that we found when we came here,
however
many years ago we came here ... the community that we built
here,
over
the years that we have been here ... the community that we share,
now,
while
we are still here.
And it
has something to do with William Burroughs.
William lived here
for
sixteen
years, longer than he lived in any other place in his life.
Every
time William went out in the town, he always ran into friends; he
had
friends
here, everywhere he went.
And
every time he travelled far away, he always came home to Lawrence.
Lawrence
was William's home, his final home. He
lived here, he lived
well
here,
and he died here.
And we
all miss him very much.
Now, I
don't know how many of us are Buddhists, and I'm pretty sure
there
are
no more
than one or two ancient Egyptians here tonight, but I'd like to
say a
few
words about their belief systems concerning life, and death, and
life
after
death.
The
ancient Egyptians postulated seven souls - as William's voice will
be
explaining
for us, in a moment ... three of those souls split, at the
moment
of the
death, the other four remain with the subject, to take their
chances
with
him in the Land of the Dead. But first
he or she must cross the
Duad,
the
River of Shit, all the filth and hatred and despair of all human
history
- then,
on the other side, lay down the body, the Sekhu, the Remains,
and
journey
through the Land of the Dead, encountering souls from your own
life
who
have gone before - through a thousand challenges and trials, you try
to
make
your way to the Western Lands ...
The
Buddhist belief (I can't do this justice right now, but this is
basically
it) is
that your soul, more or less, is reborn again and again, into new
lives. Ideally, you would not be reborn, but escape
the wheel and of
death
and
rebirth, into nirvana; but the highest enlightened ones consciously
vow
to be
reborn as many times as it takes for all sentient beings to become
enlightened,
they sacrifice their opening to nirvana - that is the
boddhisattva
vow.
The
idea is that after physical death, the soul wanders through a spirit
region
known as the Bardo, re-living past experiences, facing images
left
over
from other lives, other karma - and then, usually after about seven
weeks,
is re-born - attracted to a male and female coupling, and born
again,
to
suffer again.
We are
gathered here tonight to perform a ceremony that is ancient and
universal
- the burning of objects and images associated with the
departed,
to
symbolize the dissolution of the physical body and its intermixture
with
all
other elements - for example, Native Americans, it was pointed out
to me
tonight,
burn the dead person's belongings immediately after death ...
Now if
I haven't waited too late and I can still read this, I'm going to
read
you
some short remarks sent here by David Ohle, and by John Giorno:
First,
from David Ohle:
Sendoff
Message to the Soul of Bill
Well
now, Bill. They say you've done your
Bardo time, and now your SOUL
is
fixing
to head off somewhere.
But
look here, baby. We're gonna miss that
creaky old soft machine
you've
been
walking around in these eight score and three.
We got used to it,
you
know. Those wise and witty things it said. And wrote.
And it must
have
pumped
fifteen tons of lead into the world.
I don't
know about souls, my dear. But if you
have one (and I know you
believed
you did), then let's give it the giddyup 'n' go. Shoo!
Everybody
say it,
"Shoo! Giddyup! Git on, Bill's soul!"
And
take care crossin' that River of Shit.
Sorry I
ain't there today, my dear, but I figure when you're talking
soul
travel,
what the fuck is a few thousand miles?
I'm looking toward
Kansas
right
now. I see something.
And
this from John Giorno, and I'll try to approximate his delivery:
You
generated
enough
compassion
to fill
the world,
and
now,
resting
in
great
equanimity,
you
have accomplished
great
clarity
and
great bliss,
and the
vast empty
expanse
of
Primordially pure
Wisdom
Mind.
all
right.
why are
we here?
I mean,
in the larger sense ...
William
had a very definite answer to that question:
We
are Here to Go.
Okay,
let's burn it.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:10:14 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: bardo what was said
MIME-Version:
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thank
you patricia, for letting me participate via this modem linked to so
many
other pecarious means of communication. i wish i had been there, but
since i
wasn't you have given me the greatests of gifts, the transcription
of what
happened and the validation of life itself within the bardo passing
of wsb.
mc
Patricia
Elliott wrote:
>
Two additional notes, Sue Brossiau, (Divid Ohles' wife), mentioned that
>
the fire cage was one that wayne and William had made for a bardo they
>
held for Allen G.
>
Also I had mis heard who the second letter was from that james read at
>
the bardo; for a little illumination here is approximately what james
>
said.
>
James Grauerholz: remarks at William's
Bardo Burn, 9/20/97
>
>
Why are we here?
>
>
Each and every one of us has a different answer to that question, and we
>
can
>
meditate on those reasons while we take part in this event tonight.
>
> It
has something to do with our hosts, Wayne and Carol, and I know we
>
all
>
thank them for making this gathering possible.
>
> It
has something to do with Lawrence, our community - not the
>
"metropolis" of
> Lawrence,
frankly - but the community that we found when we came here,
>
however many years ago we came here ... the community that we built
>
here,
>
over the years that we have been here ... the community that we share,
>
now,
>
while we are still here.
>
>
And it has something to do with William Burroughs. William lived here
>
for
>
sixteen years, longer than he lived in any other place in his life.
>
>
Every time William went out in the town, he always ran into friends; he
>
had
>
friends here, everywhere he went.
>
>
And every time he travelled far away, he always came home to Lawrence.
>
>
Lawrence was William's home, his final home.
He lived here, he lived
>
well
>
here, and he died here.
>
>
And we all miss him very much.
>
> Now,
I don't know how many of us are Buddhists, and I'm pretty sure
>
there are
> no
more than one or two ancient Egyptians here tonight, but I'd like to
>
say a
>
few words about their belief systems concerning life, and death, and
>
life
>
after death.
>
>
The ancient Egyptians postulated seven souls - as William's voice will
> be
>
explaining for us, in a moment ... three of those souls split, at the
>
moment
> of
the death, the other four remain with the subject, to take their
>
chances
> with
him in the Land of the Dead. But first
he or she must cross the
>
Duad,
>
the River of Shit, all the filth and hatred and despair of all human
>
history
> -
then, on the other side, lay down the body, the Sekhu, the Remains,
>
and
>
journey through the Land of the Dead, encountering souls from your own
>
life
>
who have gone before - through a thousand challenges and trials, you try
> to
>
make your way to the Western Lands ...
>
>
The Buddhist belief (I can't do this justice right now, but this is
>
basically
>
it) is that your soul, more or less, is reborn again and again, into new
>
lives. Ideally, you would not be
reborn, but escape the wheel and of
>
death
>
and rebirth, into nirvana; but the highest enlightened ones consciously
>
vow
> to
be reborn as many times as it takes for all sentient beings to become
>
enlightened, they sacrifice their opening to nirvana - that is the
>
boddhisattva vow.
>
>
The idea is that after physical death, the soul wanders through a spirit
> region
known as the Bardo, re-living past experiences, facing images
>
left
>
over from other lives, other karma - and then, usually after about seven
>
weeks, is re-born - attracted to a male and female coupling, and born
>
again,
> to
suffer again.
>
> We
are gathered here tonight to perform a ceremony that is ancient and
>
universal - the burning of objects and images associated with the
>
departed,
> to
symbolize the dissolution of the physical body and its intermixture
>
with
>
all other elements - for example, Native Americans, it was pointed out
> to
me
>
tonight, burn the dead person's belongings immediately after death ...
>
>
Now if I haven't waited too late and I can still read this, I'm going to
>
read
>
you some short remarks sent here by David Ohle, and by John Giorno:
>
>
First, from David Ohle:
>
>
Sendoff Message to the Soul of Bill
>
>
Well now, Bill. They say you've done
your Bardo time, and now your SOUL
> is
>
fixing to head off somewhere.
>
>
But look here, baby. We're gonna miss
that creaky old soft machine
>
you've
>
been walking around in these eight score and three. We got used to it,
>
you
>
know. Those wise and witty things it
said. And wrote. And it must
>
have
>
pumped fifteen tons of lead into the world.
>
> I
don't know about souls, my dear. But if
you have one (and I know you
>
believed you did), then let's give it the giddyup 'n' go. Shoo!
>
Everybody
>
say it, "Shoo! Giddyup! Git on, Bill's soul!"
>
>
And take care crossin' that River of Shit.
>
>
Sorry I ain't there today, my dear, but I figure when you're talking
>
soul
>
travel, what the fuck is a few thousand miles?
I'm looking toward
>
Kansas
>
right now. I see something.
>
>
And this from John Giorno, and I'll try to approximate his delivery:
>
>
You generated
>
>
enough compassion
>
> to
fill the world,
>
>
and now,
>
>
resting in
>
>
great equanimity,
>
>
you have accomplished
>
>
great clarity
>
>
and great bliss,
>
>
and the vast empty
>
>
expanse
>
> of
Primordially pure
>
>
Wisdom Mind.
>
>
all right.
>
>
why are we here?
>
> I
mean, in the larger sense ...
>
>
William had a very definite answer to that question:
>
> We
are Here to Go.
>
>
Okay, let's burn it.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:38:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matthew S Sackmann
<msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>
Subject: Douglas Brinkley and Kerouac (and
America)
In-Reply-To: <3426A362.1BA9@sunflower.com>
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I
talked to Professor Brinkley on the phone yesterday. He is in the
process
of editing Jack's road diaries (120 volumes of them!!) and a few
pages
will come out in the New Yorker this December.
He is also writing a
biography
on Kerouac and finishing his biography on Jimmy Carter.
And
he's (probably) going to read at an open-mike down here in New Orleans
that
some friends and i are putting together sometime in November. yay!
On the
issue of the Beats and Patriotism, I recommend his book, "The Majic
Bus-An
American Odyssey."
As for
my own opinions: I believe that the
Beats were VERY Patriotic, but
they do
create their own definition of the word.
They love America.
Hell,
Jack's dedication page in _Visions of Cody_ reads, "Dedicated to
America,
whatever that is." They love the
land, and they love many of the
people
as individuals. They do not love the
government. Gary Snyder once
said
(paraphrasing): "We must realize
that we are all Native
Americans." Lawrence Ferlinghetti's poetry is full of
American images,
i.e.
the American Eagle. There love of
America is founded on the original
ideas
of the country. We had a discussion a
while a go about how "Howl"
seems
to be almost a new "Declaration of Independence." Their love is
founded
on the potential of America- that
orgiastic light. And as Thomas
Wolfe
wrote:
"I believe we are lost in
America, but I do believe we will be
found."
The
Beats had the same view, but they adopted different methods to help
FIND
the real America. Ginsberg threw
himself into the middle of Moloch
and
tried to change the American Moloch from the inside. Kerouac ran away
from
Moloch and found America on lonely highways, on mountain tops, in the
smiles
of old men. Burroughs in an even more
dramatic way, fled Moloch
America
to other countries, attempting to show us from the outside what a
bad
thing America has become.
-matt
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:06:38 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UNDERGRAD.MATH.UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Burroughs on Journalism
In-Reply-To: <34269DE3.4B77@pacbell.net>
MIME-Version:
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On Mon,
22 Sep 1997, James Stauffer wrote:
>
Neil
>
>
Had no intention of defending Cooper.
Apologize for the
>
misunderstanding.
>
> J.
Stauffer
>
I in
turn apologize for misconstruing your posts.
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:22:15 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mitchell Smith
<Praetor77@AOL.COM>
Subject: Beat Books and Broadsides for Sale
I have
a list of items, mostly first editions or collectibles, for sale.
Please
email me at turtlisle@aol.com if you'd like a copy of the list. Do not
reply
to this email address and please do not create list traffic with your
request.
Mitchell
Smith
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:04:23 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Douglas Brinkley and Kerouac (and
America)
In a
message dated 97-09-22 14:42:06 EDT, you write:
<<
I talked to Professor Brinkley on the phone
yesterday. He is in the
process of editing Jack's road diaries (120
volumes of them!!) and a few
pages will come out in the New Yorker this
December. He is also writing a
biography on Kerouac >>
I
understand it's true about the OTR journals, but I'm given to understand
there
are not necessarily firm plans for a biography by Brinkley.
Apparently
there will be a feature story on the subject in Wednesday's
USAToday.
Anyway, that's what I hear.
diane
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:35:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Douglas Brinkley and Kerouac (and
America)
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
04:04 PM 9/22/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In
a message dated 97-09-22 14:42:06 EDT, you write:
>
><<
> I
talked to Professor Brinkley on the phone yesterday. He is in the
>
process of editing Jack's road diaries (120 volumes of them!!) and a few
>
pages will come out in the New Yorker this December. He is also writing a
>
biography on Kerouac >>
>
>I
understand it's true about the OTR journals, but I'm given to understand
>there
are not necessarily firm plans for a biography by Brinkley.
>
>Apparently
there will be a feature story on the subject in Wednesday's
>USAToday.
Anyway, that's what I hear.
>
>diane
>
There
are definite plans for this biography which will not see the light of
day for
at least two or three years. He hasn't even started it yet. Paul...
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:37:18 +0000
Reply-To: randyr@southeast.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is
<randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>
From: randy royal
<randyr@MAILHUB.JAXNET.COM>
Subject: Re: Douglas Brinkley and Kerouac (and
America)
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in
ferlinghetti's poem autobiography (too long for me to type, but
here's
an excerpt):
".....i
am an american.
i was
an american boy.
i read
the american boy maazine
and
became a boy scout in the suburbs.
i
thought i was tom sawyer
catching
crayfish in the bronx
and
imagining the mississippi...
i had
an unhappy childhood
i saw
lindberg land.
i
looked homeward
and saw
no angel.
i got
caught stealing pencils
from
the five and ten cent store
the
same month i made eagle scout..."
>
Americans." Lawrence
Ferlinghetti's poetry is full of American images,
>
i.e. the American Eagle. There love of
America is founded on the original
>
ideas of the country. We had a
discussion a while a go about how "Howl"
>
-matt
randy
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:37:44 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: der doc
<der_doc@ROCKETMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: SPIN
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Marlene,
I
myself am a coffeehouse kid. (Don't let
the Dr. fool you, I am a
Gen
X'er, though I loathe the term.) I
spend a great deal of my time
in
public in coffeehouses. My band usually
plays in coffeehouses. My
life
outside of school and my fiance' is coffeehouses. The Wine of
the
Bean is instilled in my very soul.
I
was making a comment on what I have seen happen to many, many
people,
myself among them. The indie-rock
"cool as long as unpopular"
ideal. It's rampant amongst my friends and other
kids I see around
the
coffehouses of the world. I wasn't
meaning it to reflect on
cafe's,
just the indie rock kids that hang out in them.
Dr,
Adam J Muszkiewicz
===
visit
my web site, The Beat(en) Regeneration
(http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6131)
for
info on the Beat, Beatnik and Neo-Beat subcultures
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by
RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 08:48:32 +1100
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From: Duncan Gray
<duncang@ENTO.CSIRO.AU>
Subject: N.Y. TIMES - last Suicide review
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This
was from the N.Y. TIMES:
June 20, 1997
A Young Neal Cassady, On the Road
and Off
--------------------------------------------------------
Forum
* Join a Discussion on Movies
--------------------------------------------------------
By STEPHEN HOLDEN
[Y] ou didn't have to dye your hair
green, pierce your
tongue and wear bizarre eye
makeup to stand out as a
flaming rebel in the late 1940s. All
you had to do was
chain-smoke, play pool, listen to
be-bop and break
girls' hearts.
That's the portrait of the
20-year-old Neal Cassady
(flashily played by the newcomer Thomas Jane) that
emerges in Stephen Kay's
snazzy-looking but slight film,
"The Last Time I Committed
Suicide."
At 20, the man who became a guiding
light of the Beat
Generation, inspiring Jack Kerouac's
"On the Road" and
later joining Ken Kesey's
psychedelic troupe the Merry
Pranksters, is portrayed as a hunky
mixed-up kid with
too many hormones roiling around in
his body.
The movie is based on a letter that
the young Cassady
wrote to Kerouac when Cassady was
living in Denver and
working the night shift at a
Goodyear Tire factory. The
fragments of the letter heard over
the soundtrack
suggest a fevered, semi-coherent
stream-of-consciousness
running on a jazzy, hopped-up rhythm
that became a
hallmark of Beat literature.
Kay has made that rhythm the visual
pulse of his debut
feature film. Beyond recounting
incidents in Cassady's
youth, the movie, whose soundtrack
is drenched in
be-bop, aspires to be an
impressionistic canvas of
America when the country, still
dewy-eyed with postwar
optimism, was jumping out of its
collective skin.
Almost every shot is drenched in
rich period detail so
acute it has a surreal edge. When
Cassady visits an
office where one of his girlfriends
works as a typist,
the place is a hushed dimly lit
cathedral to capitalism
in which elaborately coiffed
secretaries sit in rigid
formation behind giant manual
typewriters. Later, when
Cassady and some friends steal a
bright red convertible
for a joy ride, the image of the
cherry-red car jouncing
through a field with snowcapped
mountains in the
background has the nostalgic tug of
a Saturday Evening
Post cover illustration.
When not creating memorable visual
tableaux, the film
observes Neal's frenetic love life
as he zigzags between
the sad-eyed, suicidal Joan (Claire
Forlani) and Cherry
Mary (Gretchen Mol), a sexually
precocious teen-ager who
suggests the adolescent Shirley
Temple gone bad. In his
spare time, Neal hangs out at a pool
hall, drinking
beers with Harry, a lowlife crony
who is 12 years his
senior.
Keanu Reeves, looking bloated and
bleary-eyed, gives
Harry a woozy affability. Also
popping up from time to
time is a skinny, spectacled friend
named Ben (Adrien
Brody), who has a big crush on Neal
and who appears to
be modeled after the young Allen
Ginsberg.
As effectively as it evokes the late
1940s, "The Last
Time I Committed Suicide" has
little dramatic momentum.
Although the film tries to suggest a
wrenching inner
conflict between Neal's wanderlust
and his fantasy of a
picture-perfect bourgeois life (he has recurrent dreams
of a house with a picket fence),
there is clearly no
contest. If the movie is
dramatically inert, it has the
charm of a lovingly assembled
personal scrapbook. It's
clear in every frame of the film how
strongly Kay
identifies with his legendary
subject.
PRODUCTION NOTES:
'THE LAST TIME I COMMITTED SUICIDE'
With: Thomas Jane (Neal Cassady),
Keanu Reeves (Harry),
Adrien Brody (Ben), Claire Forlani
(Joan) and Gretchen
Mol (Cherry Mary). Written and
directed by Stephen Kay;
based on a letter written by Neal
Cassady to Jack
Kerouac; director of photography,
Bobby Bukowski; edited
by Dorian Harris; music by Tyler
Bates; production
designer, Amy Ancona; produced by
Edward Bates and
Louise Rosner; released by
Kushner-Locke Company, Roxie
Releasing and Tapestry Films.
Running time: 95 minutes. This film
is rated R.
Home | Sections | Contents |
Search | Forums | Help
Copyright 1997 The New York
Times Company
------------------------------------------------------------------.o0
Duncan
Gray
Stored
Grain Research Laboratory
CSIRO
Entomology, GPO Box 1700, Canberra ACT 2601
Ph.
(06) 246 4178 Fax (06) 246 4202
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:02:16 -0400
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From: John J Dorfner
<Jjdorfner@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Douglas Brinkley and Kerouac (and
America)
liked
and post matt...and agree with you completely.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:27:21 -0700
Reply-To: mike@buchenroth.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael L. Buchenroth"
<mike@BUCHENROTH.COM>
Organization:
Buchenroth Publishing Company
Subject: Re: bardo what was said
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Patricia
Elliott:
I made
a sort of animated gif using the Wm S Burroughs image you posted
onto
Beat-L a few weeks ago. I also mentioned you and copied one of your
Beat-L
posts in the description of this image on my CELM site.
I
always enjoy reading your posts at:
***
http://www.buchenroth.com/animwsb.gif
***
-Mike
Charles
sent me photos from Lawrence KS.
-Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:02:36 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: bardo what was said
Comments:
To: mike@buchenroth.com
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Michael
L. Buchenroth wrote:
>
>
Patricia Elliott:
> I
made a sort of animated gif using the Wm S Burroughs image you posted
>
onto Beat-L a few weeks ago. I also mentioned you and copied one of your
>
Beat-L posts in the description of this image on my CELM site.
> I
always enjoy reading your posts at:
>
***
>
http://www.buchenroth.com/animwsb.gif
>
***
>
-Mike
>
>
Charles sent me photos from Lawrence KS.
>
-Mike
Mike,
what a fun trip i just had, visited both sites. The magazine is
fine. I am truely honored to have my piece
"bardo" presented. James
took
the picture i posted, the one i call wsb good. I loved what you did
with
it. The material on Plymell is just
fascinating. You presented a
wealth
of information on not just charles but managed to present a
fabric
and context, of time and people with the biographical information
on
Charles. I believe and agree with you, that Charles is a great man, a
great
writer. Do you Know of David Ohle's
work. I have always thought
him to
be one of the best writers, up there .
Some of his works are the
"City
Moon", Motor man" and "Mortified Man" "Chili Hearts". When david
gets
back from Eugene I will ask permission to scan some of his work and
share
it with you.
Thanks
again.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:11:55 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Jenn Fedor <Tread37@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Death stalking around my
door/long/true/personal
That
was beauitiful, marlene! i love you!
-jenn
fedor
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:46:18 -0400
Reply-To: atrigili@lynx.dac.neu.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tony Trigilio
<atrigili@LYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU>
Organization:
Northeastern University
Subject: Re: backSPIN & envy
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James--
Thanks
for the thoughtful posting. I agree
most of all that it's
unproductive
to attack those who dislike our favorite artists and
thinkers
purely on the basis that . . . they don't like the same artists
and
thinkers we might like:
> I
think that is what bothers me about this thread. The assumption that
> if
someone doesn't like the guys we like they aren't just wrong, or
>
have different tastes but lying, envious duplicitous bastards. It's the
>
flip side of what the "fascists" are always supposed to be
doing--simply
>
dismissing anything which challenges their assumptions because they
>
don't like the life style.
Best of
all, I liked your post because it caught me in a kind of
laziness--when
I said of George Will's diatribe against AG:
"Repressed
envy
usually simmers around these kind of pieces, and Will's obit in
particular
is no exception." A subjective
point that's so tough to
prove
that I should have said, "As a reader, I feel like repressed envy
usually
simmers, etc." or "Repressed envy seems to simmer, etc." Words
matter;
ideas have consequences. Readers can
only respond to what you
wrote,
not what you wanted to write or thought you were writing.
I agree
that it seems reasonable to think that Podhoretz's envied
Ginsberg's
fame and readership, as you said in your posting. But in the
essay
he actually pursues the envy further.
And I'm fascinated that he
elaborates
on his envy--that he admits a rich psychological history to
his
battle with AG, a history many of us could suspect but that would be
very
difficult to prove without an impossibly dense knowledge of
Podhoretz's
inner life.
In the
essay, Podhoretz admits that he resented AG's lifestyle. He says
that
his anti-Beat writing was partly a result of complaints he had
about
the pressures of his own life. On page
32, he writes: "At the
age of
twenty-six, the year *Howl and Other Poems* was published, I had
married
a woman with two very small children, thereby assuming
responsiblity
for an entire family at one stroke; and by the time 'The
Know-Nothing
Bohemians' appeared in 1958, a third child had come along
(with a
fourth to follow in due course). To
support this growing
family,
I relied on three different sources of income--a full-time job
as an
editor, free-lance writing at night and on weekends, and lecture
engagements
whenever I could get them. Inevitably,
then, and along with
everything
else, it was myself I was defending in fighting the Beats."
Podhoretz
later agrees with Ginsberg's 1987 assessment that their
competing
visions actually were "provocative and interesting" to the
other
(actual quote from 1987 interview is on p. 37). Podhoretz asks on
p. 32,
"How could it [AG's vision] not have been ["provocative and
interesting"]? As against the law-abiding life I had chosen
of a steady
job and
marriage and children, he conjured up a world of complete
freedom
from the limits imposed by such grim responsibilities. It was a
world
that promised endless erotic possibility together with the
excitements
of an expanded consciousness constantly open to new
dimensions
of being: more adventure, more sex,
more intensity, more
*life*."
I would
think that the best description of envy I'd get in the article
would
be envy of fame/influence/readership.
Yet the self-exposure and
honesty
in the article was a surprise (I think again of Podhoretez's
conclusion,
which I quoted in the posting a few weeks ago: "I still
cannot
bring myself to forgive *him* [AG], not even now that he is
dead"). I'm glad this thread brought me back to the
article.
Tony
****************************************************
"I
think of people's faces and stay away from coffee.
I
listen to my radio and I go to bed early, too.
There's
nothing
like sleep to make you feel good the next day.
And I
also eat good. When I feel tense and
nervous
in the
morning, I go to Ruby's and have a good breakfast.
The
food gives me the energy to think more positive
thoughts."
--Henry
Turner
****************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 03:45:12 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Last time I committed suicide, which
was before this time
In a
message dated 97-09-19 17:04:03 EDT, you write:
<<
By the way, I really enjoyed the movie. I could be wrong, but i really
hope
that Keanu wasn't playing JK, that would be a serious casting mistake.
Thanks.
>>
Keanu
was playing a character named Harry. Definitely not suppose to be
Kerouac
nor drawn on Kerouac. Neal was called Neal in the movie. The movie
was
based on a letter that Neal Cassady wrote to Kerouac, written in 1950.
The
letter played a major influence on Kerouac's writings with it's wild
madcap
recounting of the events.
The
movie had a very short run in the theaters, probably just the major
cities,
but it is out on video.
Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:11:30 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Mime format Re: october's Cover...
re:patriots
In-Reply-To: <342504E5.D0524C08@mail.telepac.pt>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
11.28 21/09/97 +0000,
DuarteMoniz
<DuarteMoniz@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT> wrote:
>Bill
Gargan wrote:
>
>>
As most of you on the list have noticed, mime format and photographs
>>
do
>>
not travel well on Beat-l. It might be
better to mount such files on
>>
a
>>
web page and provide listmembers with the url so t hat they can
>>
download
>>
them to their hard drives and read them with their browers.
>
>
>Can't
agree with you. It may desencourage people to send photos and
>photos
are great to see and rest awhile from all the texts. It was very
>nice
to see some of you some time back.I also appreciate the posts with
>full
articles that appear in the US media concerning the beats. It's the
>
>only
way we (not residents in the USA) can have access to those prints.
>I
am enjoying very much being with you
all, althought you didn't notice
>my
presence up until now.
>
>Duarte
Moniz
>Portugal
>
Duarte
Moniz,
I agree
totally with, you, the pics travel fine attached in email,
and i
you fon't own a www space it's
impossible to post pictures, another
problem
was the native characters (as noted by the chinese friend
some
post ago, and by myself again) that's it would be nice to be
posted
(i.e. eastern coutry, or far eastern country,...),
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
please who's the
person in charge of
the "cover" project?
may he blackchanell
to me, i'm working
on the JK it 1967 poket
cover of "Sulla Strada"
(OTR)
also i've the cover of
1980 JK "On the Road"
i dunno if it's a rarity
someone let me know if i
can start to scan...
**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**
at the
moment i italy the word "patriot" is referred to
the
people like "venetian patriots" who wish the secessionism
from
the italy, and have their symbol in the bell tower in
S.Marco
Square in Venice, the "patriots" want that Venetian
Lands
becom independent from the rest of Italy (independent
movement),
***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-
saluti
cari,
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 07:22:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Mime format Re: october's Cover...
re:patriots
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi
Rinaldo, I am posting a different cover each month. If you have one I
will
use it for November but will probably post it sooner. You can send it
as an
attachment to this address. Thanks...you will see it posted at The
Kerouac
Quarterly Web Page...Paul...
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 07:30:24 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: bardo what was said
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
michael
b: i agree with patricia, the giff is wonderful the picture of wsb
evokes
him in all third dimensions and beyond.
i'm
looking for patricia's piece you mention below, as well as the site on
ch.
Plymell.
mc
Patricia
Elliott wrote:
>
Michael L. Buchenroth wrote:
>
>
>
> Patricia Elliott:
>
> I made a sort of animated gif using the Wm S Burroughs image you posted
>
> onto Beat-L a few weeks ago. I also mentioned you and copied one of your
>
> Beat-L posts in the description of this image on my CELM site.
>
> I always enjoy reading your posts at:
>
> ***
>
> http://www.buchenroth.com/animwsb.gif
>
> ***
>
> -Mike
>
>
>
> Charles sent me photos from Lawrence KS.
>
> -Mike
>
Mike, what a fun trip i just had, visited both sites. The magazine is
>
fine. I am truely honored to have my
piece "bardo" presented.
James
>
took the picture i posted, the one i call wsb good. I loved what you did
>
with it. The material on Plymell is
just fascinating. You presented a
>
wealth of information on not just charles but managed to present a
>
fabric and context, of time and people with the biographical information
> on
Charles. I believe and agree with you, that Charles is a great man, a
>
great writer. Do you Know of David
Ohle's work. I have always thought
>
him to be one of the best writers, up there .
Some of his works are the
>
"City Moon", Motor man" and "Mortified Man" "Chili Hearts". When david
>
gets back from Eugene I will ask permission to scan some of his work and
>
share it with you.
>
Thanks again.
> p
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 08:01:38 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Mime format Re: october's Cover...
re:patriots
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
There
is nothing wrong with mimes except they must be
decoded
with uudecode. Why not send binaries,
which can
be
decoded easily.
Mike
Rice
At
12:11 PM 9/23/97 +0200, you wrote:
>At
11.28 21/09/97 +0000,
>DuarteMoniz
<DuarteMoniz@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT> wrote:
>>Bill
Gargan wrote:
>>
>>>
As most of you on the list have noticed, mime format and photographs
>>>
do
>>>
not travel well on Beat-l. It might be
better to mount such files on
>>>
a
>>>
web page and provide listmembers with the url so t hat they can
>>>
download
>>>
them to their hard drives and read them with their browers.
>>
>>
>>Can't
agree with you. It may desencourage people to send photos and
>>photos
are great to see and rest awhile from all the texts. It was very
>>nice
to see some of you some time back.I also appreciate the posts with
>>full
articles that appear in the US media concerning the beats. It's the
>>
>>only
way we (not residents in the USA) can have access to those prints.
>>I
am enjoying very much being with you
all, althought you didn't notice
>>my
presence up until now.
>>
>>Duarte
Moniz
>>Portugal
>>
>Duarte
Moniz,
>
>I
agree totally with, you, the pics travel fine attached in email,
>and
i you fon't own a www space it's
impossible to post pictures, another
>problem
was the native characters (as noted by the chinese friend
>some
post ago, and by myself again) that's it would be nice to be
>posted
(i.e. eastern coutry, or far eastern country,...),
>*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
>
> please who's the
> person in charge of
> the "cover" project?
> may he blackchanell
> to me, i'm working
> on the JK it 1967 poket
> cover of "Sulla Strada"
(OTR)
> also i've the cover of
> 1980 JK "On the Road"
> i dunno if it's a rarity
> someone let me know if i
> can start to scan...
>**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**
>
>at
the moment i italy the word "patriot" is referred to
>the
people like "venetian patriots" who wish the secessionism
>from
the italy, and have their symbol in the bell tower in
>S.Marco
Square in Venice, the "patriots" want that Venetian
>Lands
becom independent from the rest of Italy (independent
>movement),
>***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-
>
>saluti
cari,
>Rinaldo.
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 08:03:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: bardo message
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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Content-Transfer-Encoding:
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Patricia
Elliott wrote:
>
>
All week long I didn't want to go. I felt swept with anxiety and
>
decided about 7 times I wouldn't go.
<reluctant
snip>
> I feel when William first died, his
spirit was there in the room with
his body, it was comforting. Then I felt his
spirit whirling around the world,
I almost know he went to Tangiers for a
moment. I feel he is gone. we have
lots to do now.
>
> Patricia
The
energy from the Kaw connections slid through the Vortex to my
electromagnetic
seven souls as i investigated Denver and Boulder wearing
my
black William's memory hat (which i didn't burn) and wandered here
and
there (full report sometime this week).
I think
that it is hilarious that the number 7 pops up in the number of
times
you weren't going to go. PERFECT! I imagine it was the fourth
decision
not to go which was the most traumatic.
I thought of you and
all the
Lawrence folks i've met many times as i wandered and especially
connected
with these energies wandering through Naropa early Saturday
afternoon. The William has been here energy was
overpoweringly sweet at
times. In the Naropa bookstore i saw William
picture postcards and
considered
buying one to burn but the idea of open fires in Boulder
didn't
sound prudent - hell you almost get arrested for having a lit
cigarette
there.
Your
last line is wise.
david
rhaesa
back in
salina, Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:01:57 -0400
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From: "Hemenway . Mark"
<MHemenway@DRC.COM>
Subject: Re: Looking forward to participating in
group
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In the
words of the immortal beatnik, Maynard G. Krebbs.... "WoooORRRK?"
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 08:52:45 -0700
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From: Eric Lytle <e.lytle@SARCOS.COM>
Subject: Still SPINning ...
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I know this thread is just about
played out, but did anyone
else
notice a book review of Dennis Cooper's latest work in
Salonmagazine.com
on Friday. I just checked the site and
it has been
updated
since last week. You can still find the
page at
http:/www.salonmagazine.com/sept97/sneaks/sneak970919.html (sorry
it's so
long)
The interesting part is that the
reviewer discussed how
misunderstood
and disliked Cooper is, and topped it
off by comparing
him to
wsb. How ironic...
-E
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:32:58 +0200
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From: Dufour <dufour@ULISSE.IT>
Subject: Beat book covers
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I'm
very interested in seeing the original covers of the U.S. editions of
AG, JK,
WSB most important books, can anyone tell me where to find these in
a
website or in jpeg (or equivalent) format ?
Ciao!
Francesco
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:15:49 -0700
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Doh! I don't think that worked.
I
apparently flubbed the address. If you
go to Salonmagazine.com and
click
on Books, you will see Dennis Cooper's
review under friday's
date. This reviewer has called Cooper a suitable torch
bearer for the
late
great wsb.
-E
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:35:33 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: mass suicide postings
Comments:
To: "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
In-Reply-To:
<199709220211.WAA18738@owl.INS.CWRU.Edu>
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On Sun,
21 Sep 1997, Diane M. Homza wrote:
>
Question: (since this is one of the recent threads, anyway)
>
>
when exactly did The Last Time I Commited Suicide come out? I've been
>
assuming that it's already available on video, but in the neighborhood
>
vidoe store tonite I saw a poster hanging underneath the "coming
soon"
>
sign, & the poster was for LTICS, so now I'm confused.
Just
rented & watched it tonight. I got it at Hollywood video, and someone
else
said it was out at Blockbuster, so maybe the evil corporate chains got
it
first.
My
thoughts on the film: Well, it had nice crisp late-90s cinematography,
the
colorful neons and rain atmospherics etc reminding me of _Shine_. I
thought
that the guy who portrayed Neal got his moves down quite well, and
some of
the camera pans on him when he was going off excitedly talking were
pretty
effective. I didn't like the sets -- it looked too much like a 90s
"verison"
of the late 40s/early 50s, kind of like how _Grease_ or _Heart
Beat_
to me is more about the 70s than the 50s. Everyone (esp. Neal) looked
more
like a 90210 extra rather than someone from the past -- they never get
this
right in film! Good soundtrack and "cute" story though -- if _Heart
Beat_
was a 4 then this one's a 6.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:29:55 GMT
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From: Chris Dumond <cmdumond@EHC.EDU>
Subject: Levis
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Have
you folks seen the Levi's commercial mentioning Jack and Charley Parker?
There's
an icecream man and a bunch of kids crowded around and before he
gives
them their icecream, they have to answer his questions. The first boy
comes
up and the man asks, "Who was Jack Kerouac?" The boy replies, "On The
Road." The next kid comes up and the man asks,
"Who was birdland named
after?"
The boy replies, "Charley Parker."
Then the icecream man quickly
asks,
"Tenor or Alto?" and the first boy whispers in the other's ear. I
forget
whether Bird played Tenor or Alto (jesus, what kind of Kerouac-Junkie
am I?)
but you all get the point. I thought it
was a damn good commercial!
ALSO...
A couple of months ago I was at a Lyle Lovett show where he opened
up with
a song singing, "who remembers Jack Kerouac?" It was a beautiful
song,
and I'd never heard it before. Any
other Lyle fans wanna take a stab??
Chris
Visit
Chris's Page at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/2124
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:42:29 -0400
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: N.Y. TIMES - last Suicide review
Reply
to message from duncang@ENTO.CSIRO.AU of Mon, 22 Sep
>
>
> PRODUCTION NOTES:
>
> 'THE LAST TIME I COMMITTED SUICIDE'
>
> With: Thomas Jane (Neal Cassady),
Keanu Reeves (Harry),
> Adrien Brody (Ben), Claire Forlani
(Joan) and Gretchen
> Mol (Cherry Mary). Written and
directed by Stephen Kay;
> based on a letter written by Neal
Cassady to Jack
> Kerouac; director of photography,
Bobby Bukowski; edited
> by Dorian Harris; music by Tyler
Bates; production
> designer, Amy Ancona; produced by
Edward Bates and
> Louise Rosner; released by
Kushner-Locke Company, Roxie
> Releasing and Tapestry Films.
>
Does
anyone know if this Stephen Kay is a Beat enthusiast? It makes me
wonder
how he happened upon this project...I don't think the letter is much
known
outside of the Beat Enthusiast realm.
Oh, cure my wonderings,
someone! (and I greatly apologize if this has been
discussed before & I
just
don't pay attention & the colelctive compnay decides to exile me
from
posting anymore)
Diane.
(H)
--
I
should have loved a thunderbird instead. --Sylvia Plath
Diane
M. Homza
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:19:42 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Matthew S Sackmann
<msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Douglas Brinkley and Kerouac (and
America)
In-Reply-To:
<970922155800_1630061747@emout11.mail.aol.com>
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On Mon,
22 Sep 1997, Diane De Rooy wrote:
> In
a message dated 97-09-22 14:42:06 EDT, you write:
>
>
<<
> I talked to Professor Brinkley on the phone
yesterday. He is in the
> process of editing Jack's road diaries (120
volumes of them!!) and a few
> pages will come out in the New Yorker this
December. He is also writing a
> biography on Kerouac >>
>
> I
understand it's true about the OTR journals, but I'm given to understand
>
there are not necessarily firm plans for a biography by Brinkley.
>
>
Apparently there will be a feature story on the subject in Wednesday's
>
USAToday. Anyway, that's what I hear.
>
>
diane
>
Well,
that's what the man said.
-matt
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:32:56 -0500
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: A week of white noise
Comments:
cc: "Beach@qconline.com" <Beach@qconline.com>
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i
remember once when my first major mentor of sorts at the University of
Kansas
was being honored for some thing or another and the speaker said
to
really know a person check out the names of the books in their
personal
library and then preceded to humorously interpret the
connections
between many of his book titles. I had
two thoughts. For
my
generation it would probably be more fitting to look at their music
collections
AND that i would purposely buy books to put in my shelves to
throw
people off the trail!!!!! My copy of
Hints From Heloise is a
prized example
of this type of book! Rod is a master
of such a
strategy. Someday some of you may get the honor of
witnessing his
books!!!!
So i
decided a week ago after Rod left from a visit and had loaned me a
huge
collection of cd's to catalogue the "white noise" in my apartment
#23
(isn't that number somehow significant?).
This is "a week of White
Noise!:
Bob
Dylan-Unplugged; George Clinton Greatest Funkin Hits; The Best of
Melanie;
William S. Burroughs + Gus Van Sant - The Elvis of Letters;
Breakthrough
in the Grey Room - William S. Burroughs; Holy Soul Jelly
Roll,
Poems and Songs 1949-1993 - Vol.1 MOLOCH!; The Jewish Experience,
Chanukkah
- the western wind narrated by Theodore Bikel; Call Me
Burroughs
- WSB; Western Movie Themes from Cint Eastwood Movies; Voices
of
Forgotten Worlds - Traditional Music of Indigenous People 2 cds; In
Their
Own Voices: A Century of Recorded Poetry, Volumes 3 and 4; Jack
Kerouac
on the Beat Generation; The Essence of Thelonius Monk; William
S.
Burroughs - Dead City Radio; Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits Volume 3;
CHANGES
- Native American Flute Music - R. Carlos Nakai; Jack Kerouac -
Blues
and Haikus featuring Al Cohn and Zoot Sims; Holy Soul Jelly Roll,
Poems
and Songs 1949-1993 - Vol.2 CAW! CAW!; The Jewish Experience -
Passover
the western wind narrated by Theodore Bickel; The Best of the
Grateful
Dead - Skeletons from the Closet; Kerouac - Kicks Joy
Darkness; Pink Floyd - THE WALL; Holy Soul Jelly Roll
Poems and Songs
1949-1993
Vol. 3: AH! ; In Their Own Voices A
Century of Recorded
Poetry
Volumes one and two; Captain Beefheart and his Magic Band - Safe
as Milk
(i bought this during the week and so i actually listened to it
between
every cd from here to the end); Leonard Cohen - I'm Your Man;
Bruce Cockburn
- The Charity of the Night; Jack Kerouac Steve Allen -
Poetry
of the Beat Generation; William S. Burroughs Kurt Cobain - the
"Priest"
they called him; Outback - Baka; Yellowjackets - Like a River;
Eric
Clapton Timepieces Vol.2 'Live in the Seventies'; John Lennon -
Live in
New York City.
I'm
currently listening as i type to the white noise of: Kenya &
Tanzania
- Witchcraft and Ritual Music. Next up
is Holy Soul Jelly Roll
vol.4.....
If
anyone can find a coherent string or thread winding through these
noises
i'd sure appreciate it. Have a
therapist appointment tomorrow
afternoon
and she always wants to know how i've been.
A two or three
word
synthesis of these sounds would be a fun thing to throw at Wendy.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:55:45 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: bardo message
Comments:
To: SSASN@aol.com
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Several
people have worried what was burned. here is my response.
i
clipped one question. Which is not a
bad question, it is a legitamate
one.
I hope
that the WSB legacy left to
>
posterity has not been diminished because of this ceremony, however
>
meaningful or in accordance with his wishes &/or those closest to him.
patricia
wrote
I burnt
some River City Reunion programs, printouts of the beat-l
postings,
a printout of rinaldo's "shit kicking list", things i thought
that
william had enjoyed or would enjoy, I saw things of interest in the
pile
but nothing that i would throw myself on the fire for. Newspaper
clippings,
great little sketches of the cats that william had over the
years,
tickets and posters announcing readings, looked like a lot of
people
wrote letters to the man. I felt that
no legacy was in danger
but I
very much felt that I needed to offer up something real. I have
probably
500 river city reunion programs.
I was stunned how right the ceremony
was, I thought the concept of
bardo
fit the man and was much taken with the rightness of it. I told
my
husband that a barnfire and potluck would definatly be my funeral of
choice.
I would like more dancing, maybe some couples fucking in the
bushes
on blankets, My husband said that that would probably be hard,
since
our friends were getting old. I have
kept a lot of the anger I
feel
around death pretty much in control but I felt a flair at the
suggestion
that his feelings and those that loved him should take some
back
seat ride to his "legacy left to posterity ", inho, his choice here
was but
the reflection of the sincerity of his writing. When I started
on this
list I argued with some guy who
insisted there was nothing of
the
spiritual in williams writing, which i thought was a crock. That no
bettter
words than william reading from western
lands could be found to
fit
williams bardo is so fucking obvious .. .
Oh well, I am sure that
it is
the sholar and researcher that wondered what was lost in the fire.
I found
the event to be another layer of education and fun that i
recieved
from knowing that old man. It was like him , to actually do it.
One side of William that always made
me marvel was his combining the
intellect
with the spirit of exploring the physical
He tinkered and
invented,
he was a physical man. A lot of people
use to talk to me of
the
conflict between the corporeal and the spiritual and the intellect.
He
would talk to me of the exciting points of interactions of these
planes. I know, that at this point i should dive
into quotes from "my
eduction"
or western lands, because of what i i am trying to tell you
about
him, with my paraphrasing of his ideas. I assure you, his language
and
mine differ and my language does no justice to his ideas, the only
language
that did that was his. I consider him
one of the great
geniuses
of language.
It may be the only time i ever
really like fireworks. When I first
met
William I suffered from a fear and dread of guns, Fred and William
worked
with me for years and i leapt across that fear, and enjoyed
shooting
with him. The last time a couple of months before he died was
odd,
how the focusing and comradre really brought it to a level of
experiance
i would never of acheived without the help. We had a
wonderful
conversation about facing things and going through doors , it
brought
you to a better place. pow,pow pow.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:24:06 +0900
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Timothy Hoffman
<timothy@GOL.COM>
Subject: Kerouac's "Books"
In-Reply-To: <34284BAD.2F7C@sunflower.com>
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Starting "Some of the
Dharma", I was impressed with the notes
displayed
in the endcovers in which Kerouac had classified and outlined the
guidelines
of his system of different writing types, including such
categories
as: Blues, Dreams, Dharmas, Pops, Tics, Visions, Sketches, etc.
(which
eventually were published as "Book of Blues", "Book of
Dreams",
"Visions
of Gerard/Cody", etc.) It provided me with a way to divide and
group some
the notes and writings that I had been keeping for years.
I've ended up with a Folder of Books
containing several titles,
some of
them matching the types Kerouac had described in the notes and some
of
them, like "Book of Prayers", not mentioned specifically in his
notes.
I'm wondering if there is anyone else
out there who has had a
chance
to look at Some of the Dharma who has any thoughts on the notes
shown
in the endcovers (What are your thoughts on this "system"?; Has it
had any
influence on your writing?; Were there any categories which you
thought
could be added?) or if there has been any studied focus in the
creative
writing circles (perhaps at Naropa) of writing within the
parameters
of the guidelines described by Jack Kerouac in these notes.
My book's at home today (I'm at the
office), but I'll be happy to
forward
in a couple days the description of the system for those folks who
aren't
familiar with what I'm talking about. I hope that this post might
tangent
off in positive ways.
Thanks.
:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::
Timothy
Hoffman
Komaki
English Teaching Center
timothy@gol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 04:32:33 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: John J Dorfner
<Jjdorfner@AOL.COM>
Subject: Fly to Lowell
anyone
interested in buying a round trip ticket from Raleigh, NC to Boston,
MA?
i can't
make the trip to Lowell this year and am hoping that someone out
there
will be able to use these tickets. $200
and the tickets are yours.
Leave Raleigh Oct. 1st and return on Oct.
6th. man, i was really looking
forward
to this trip.
anyone
interested. let me know.
john j
dorfner
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:19:25 +0200
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: beat images identity
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970923112226.0069d710@pop.pipeline.com>
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friends,
i've
post on the web two photos of beats that i can't
recognize
the site is
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beatpic.htm
someone
has a suggestion?
thanks
for the help,
cari
saluti,
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 08:31:46 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: USA Today
To get
to the OTR 40th Anniversary story in the 9/24/97 USA Today online, go
here:
http://www.usatoday.com/life/enter/books/leb848.htm
I just
glanced at it, but was happy to see they'd included the one-man play
written
and performed by Vince Balestri that's been playing most of the year
here in
Seattle. I've seen it twice and will see it one more time before the
run
ends on 5 October.
There's
a lot of stuff here, including the news on Brinkley's work. Should
make
for good list fodder today.
diane
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:25:27 EDT
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: OTR -- Reading
Reminder
for those in the New York City area.
The St. Marks Poetry Project wil
l be
hosting a marathon reading of On The Road begainning at 7:00 p.m. this eve
ning. Admission $7.50. Free to poetry project members.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 14:03:39 UT
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's "Books"
Tim,
please forward the description. thanks,
sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:36:58 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
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Diane
De Rooy wrote:
>
> To
get to the OTR 40th Anniversary story in the 9/24/97 USA Today online, go
>
here: http://www.usatoday.com/life/enter/books/leb848.htm
>
> I
just glanced at it, but was happy to see they'd included the one-man play
>
written and performed by Vince Balestri that's been playing most of the year
>
here in Seattle. I've seen it twice and will see it one more time before the
>
run ends on 5 October.
>
>
>
diane
This
isn't exactly along the lines ... but was driving Northwest on
Spear
Boulvd in Denver and as i was passing Larimer it hit me that was
where
Jack was dumped off way back when.
Tons of
stuff going on there ... banners and balloons and folks moving
around
everywhere (all out of the corner of my eye at 50 mph or so)...
So i
get over to the Federal area around 36 and pick up Benita for
breakfast
and say "what's going on down on Larimer?
is it some kind of
kerouac
celebration?" No it's just
Octoberfest she says. And then
after a
bit i looked at my watch and saw that it was September. "Why
Octoberfest
in September? Doesn't that usually come
in October?" It
snows
here in October. Oh.
Drive
on to Pete's Kitchen ... wonderful Greek omelet. Good atmosphere.
Good
coffee
Pete's
Kitchen is located at Colfax and RACE in Denver. I definitely
had to
take a picture of that street sign and even got a bit of the
diner
in the background.
have a
fun day. i head off for KC this
weekend.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 12:08:47 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Hitchhiking
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Getting
back to some old posts.
On Sat,
13 Sep 1997, Leon Tabory wrote:
> Thanks for the clarification. I am relieved.
>
> I
was hoping there were no dark foreboding underpinning there. We are on the
>
same wave length. Surfing the good waves. A bit of real danger is there.
>
Surprising, stunning new vistas all the time. Maybe even a cherished belief
>
threatened here and there. Right now a sudden thought. How many wonderful
>
people, creative outpourings, hidden corners of world wide treasures, leap
>
into full view in my mind through this
screen. How much brilliant light is
>
jumping out of the many facets of the jewels of the best minds, turning
>
right in front of me, spinning, delicately engaging. Between the fingertips
> of
loving dedicated experts on life as well as on books , lucky to have made
>
their way close to the pioneering adventures of the mind, the great
>
adventurers who spin them, pioneers of our age. So happy to see you all
>
passing by. Flashes of the worlds of fiction and of reality. Had no idea of
>
the possibilities of hitching rides in the skies,
>
friends zooming by our paths.Look at that! Awesome. So much fascinating
>
stuff to unfold. The stuff of our lives, diamonds in the rough.The Beat-L
>
hitchiking gang. What a ride to hitch.
Including our newest acquaintance
>
Yan who took us off on this ride where we
also met the clear eyes of the
>
young girl begging in China. Don't we all wish we could know her more too?
>
Are we going to run into her another time?
I have
no comment on the above paragraph, Leon, except for the fact that I
wanted
to quote it in its entirety because of the great writing.
> By
the way, did you notice Rinaldo's photo on his list site?
>
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/home.htm I wonder what the huge stack of papers is
>
about? Ask Rinaldo? O.K. I am asking you Rinaldo. Where you heading there
>
with that mysterious armful load?
Yeah
Rinaldo, what is that stack of papers (and is that you in the foto)?
>
That reminded me to take another look at your site. So how is copyleft
>
progressing? It may not seem beat related right off hand, but I think how
>
relevant it would be for future Kerouacs, etc, in a world where copyleft
>
replaced royalties and other restraints upon creative happiness and gifts to
>
the world.
Well
the more I experiment with it the more I see just how Beat-related it
is --
at least in terms of the philosophical issues involved, which really
is what
it's all about anyway. Richard Stallman gave a great speech about
this
which is transcribed at
<http://www.gnu.ai.mit.edu/philosophy/stallman-kth.html>.
In it, he says,
Now the spiritual harm that goes with this
kind of material harm, is in the
spirit of self-sufficiency. When a person
spends a lot of time using a
computer system, the configuration of that
computer system becomes the city
that he lives in. Just as the way our
houses and furniture are laid out,
determines what it's like for us to live
among them, so that the computer
system that we use, and if we can't change
the computer system that we use
to suit us, then our lives are really under
the control of others. And a
person who sees this becomes in a certain
way demoralized: `It's no use
trying to change those things, they're
always going to be bad. No point even
hassling it. I'll just put in my time and
..... when it's over I'LL go away
and try not to think about it any more''.
That kind of spirit, that
unenthusiasm is what results from not being
permitted to make things better
when you have feelings of public spirit.
The
same is true for _any_ information. There is an interesting relationship
between
information and those who comprehend it -- the information becomes
_part_
of them. If you cannot modify it or duplicate it (ie, re-think it),
then
you become demoralized. So in a very real way, copyleft is about
freedom
-- the freedom to live and think in an information-rich society.
Free
information (in the sense of freedom, not necessarily price) allows for
cooperation
-- those who push proprietary information and put restrictions
on their
once-digital invisible, enternally regenerative wealth-to-humanity
"intellectual
property" seek to divide us, and to disallow free thought on
an
individual or group level. They will also find that they are facing an
impossible
task -- copyright is dead anyway, and those trapped in the old
world
will find that trying to enforce their so-called "ownership" of
humanity's
wealth (our combined explorations in Universe and its resultant
data)
will find it to be as difficult as trying to catch the waves of the
ocean.
The ocean's waves and our digital conversations share an important
property
-- they exist in pure principle, they are invisible, weightless,
without
mass and can be described soley in pure angle and frequency.
Which
is sort of why I don't believe in any One True Text, but only
versions,
interpretations and revisions. Also why I'd like to see some of
the
great works by our beloved Beat authors put into digital form. Once such
a thing
happens, Kerouac's dream could come true. As Arthur Nusbaum pointed
out, JK
is quoted on the back cover of VOC as saying, "In my old age, I
intend
to collect all my work and re-insert my pantheon of uniform names,
leave
the long shelf full of books there, and die happy." If only he could
have
sensed the unfolding electronic revolution, but in 1969 it was only
readily
apparant to a few scientists at the world's universities.
The old
way is scared, and are making desperate attempts. My Wired News
story
on the new Divx technology at
<http://www.wired.com/news/news/6947.html>
shows what Hollywood is trying to
do to
protect the information in their movies -- make a playback system that
will
disallow the user to do anything with the information but play it back
(and
pause or stop it). Their attempts will prove futile, but -- like music
and
literature -- I usually prefer the indies to today's corporate league
anyway.
What
they would really like is Michael Buchenroth's scenario:
On Mon,
15 Sep 1997, Michael L. Buchenroth wrote:
>
Why would I or anyone else pay for access to your literary database when
>
practically everything you store exists elsewhere in public domain free?
>
Your site taxes the spirit of the web; defrauds the human species . . .
>
***
>
The evolution of human consciousness, if up to institutions such as
>
Chadwyck-Healey Ltd, would begin immediately following birth with an
>
electrode implantation into each new-born human brain stem connected via
>
infra red to a meter not much different than an electric usage meter
>
power companies now employ on the side of houses to measure and bill
>
customer electricity usage! Only your meter would measure and charge
>
thought, for learning each new declamation; every CNS protoplasmic
>
propagation, aha potassium reduction the wheel spins 10-cents faster;
>
sodium rushing in there location cell AX2956892919 degrees,
>
BY2956891219568 degrees, CZ34589, the meter trips signaling Dave's
>
Culligan on Main Street that humanoid Dave2001xyz99 needs electrolyte
>
home delivery (must keep protoplasmic harmony, electrolytic super
>
efficiency, the business plans calls for it) the power grid network'd
>
measures blip blip, somewhere a first grader for first time speaks
>
"Alice meets Jip. See Jip run? Run Jip run." Elsewhere the grid hums,
>
Chuckie learns a pun.
I had a
dream the night before I read this where a future company had
invented
a nanotech billing system for air -- huge plumes of these
microscopic,
FDA-approved billing agents would spew out of factory towers,
filling
the sky with their invisible mass. You'd breathe them in with the
air,
and their meters would record the amount and make micropayments from
your
account -- the legal entity of Obnoxico, once having made use of this
human-invented
technology, would use it to bring their self-imposed
"ownership"
of our once-free air. Only the rich would breathe the good stuff.
m
email
stutz@dsl.org Copyright (c) 1997
Michael Stutz; this information is
<http://dsl.org/m/> free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL,
and as long
as this sentence remains;
it comes with absolutely NO
WARRANTY; for details see
<http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:17:11 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Hitchhiking
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Michael
Stutz wrote:
>
> as this sentence
remains; it comes with absolutely NO
> WARRANTY; for details
see <http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.
Mike,
so how
do you get all the different posts into one post? My city is
probably
as large as most of y'alls computers minus a hamster or two but
i
imagine i've only looked out my bathroom door and not yet even begun
to
explore the whole damn computernetwork neighborhood. I really like
the way
you weave together different posts and wonder how to do this.
Does it
take some kind of diploma? Also
interested in whether there is
an easy
way to download e-mail files into wordprocessing files. Is this
a mere
fantasy on my part or is it something someone with a mechanical
IQ of
negative 35 can actually do?
Of
course others are welcome to answer these things as well.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
p.s. I highly recommend that everyone read the
first section/chapter
whatever
in CPlymell's Last of the Moc's. His
ideas expressed there
about
the Grim Reaper provide a lot of fasincating context to this
funerealish
year. I've been planning for a day now
to create some
elaborate
post about old GR the deathman incorporating CP's words and
some of
the materials from The various deathish and eulogistic threads
of the
past months but just now i said ... fuck that!
can't do it
justice. or i'm too lazy. just everyone read Charley!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 12:12:47 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Imploding Text ... something fun yet
serious
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Hey
all,
well
since my last post and a shower and listening to seven souls (now
listening
to Louis Armstrong) i had a bright idea.
Can't say it is a
full
blown light bulb but it seems to be somewhere between a dull haze
and a
black light.
i was
lucky enough to be involved in s.a. griffin's exploding text of
Allen
Ginsberg's "On Burroughs Work" last year. I was surprised that
s.a.
even knew the right touches to have it printed in a nice little red
pamphlet
and even had something that said Rose of Sharon press on it -
which
has impressed the hell out of some of my old friends - - which
makes
me laugh a lot -- but it also ruined my lifelong attempt to
challenge
the publish or perish mentality. Hoping
that somehow in not
publishing
i could be immortal.
But
mortality is our lot and despite the best efforts to write or not
write
our way past these physical limitations it appears that we all
croak
one day or another.
And
mortality is a universal theme of our lives.
We face it with nearly
every
step. And yet somehow we stride on. It seems, though i am still
fairly
new to this wonderful group of writers called 'beat' (beat being
synonymous
with rhubarb) that death and mortality is something that is
mentioned
in more than just passing in much of the writings that are
becoming
known as Beat Generation Literature.
This seems true of the
Big
three or four or five and even of the much larger lists that are
accumulating
from across the waters near Pound's centre of the
universe. (Rinaldo = the postcard you sent me of
venice still sits
proudly
leaning on my computer monitor).
So my
idea was precisely the opposite of the exploding text and it is an
imploding
beat text on the ideas of death, mortality, immortality,
funerals,
blah blah blah....I think that it can provide some fun. I
think
it can give something for a much wider range of listmembers to
participate
in, and i think that it can be a creative implosion -
perhaps
alchemical - that provides some closure to a rather odd year.
So
exactly what do i mean by this imploding text?
Of course, i'm never
certain
and i hate to be pinned down to definitions - but here is a
preliminary
title and a fragmentary map of the territory i am
considering. The title would be "Eulogy for the
Eulogy: OR a Wake of
Words"
(note the definite Underdog style in the title). Everyone just
picks a
line, a sentence, a poetic fragment from someone "beatish" and
includes
it in a stream of quotations. No
academic strings to attempt
to
interpret just letting the Beat-words speak for themselves. Be
certain
to keep the fragments brief to respect copyrights and whatnot.
A
little dash after the quotation with the writer and the place you
found
it would be nice of course.
So once
again where did this idea pop from.
Perhaps when i was
shaving. I heard that Einstein once said he had his
best ideas while
shaving. I usually am lucky to get by without a cut
throat. So it was
probably
in the shower and i had been thinking of death a lot as of late
and i
had so thoroughly enjoyed the thoughts it caused to creep into me
and all
the bardo stuff from this weekend of course, and this whole
year,
and i have to think that the coffee table copy of Bartlett's
quotations
in WSB's home the morning after the memorial service probably
had an
influence. At any rate, the idea has
sprung from my brain in
full
foam as you can see. I hope folks will
join in. I hope that a
wide
range of writers get "imploded" and the collection of words may
actually
mean something when it is through ... if it is ever through
(this
appears a thread that could be eternal) ... so i'll start it off.
Whoever
follows me just eliminate all this garbage of words and type a
quotation
after the one i do and send it along to the List. I hope
others
find this fun too! dbr
"The
reaper trims his own cosmic garden, if there were too many of this
or that
cosmic thread, too much here, not enough there, disconnected or
plucked
from this dual reality, this cosmic thread needed to make the
total
weave of existence come out right, or that with the proper pattern
in the
proper time and space -- or maybe they were selected with a
certain
type life thread to string together molecules and tie them
together
in that mirror of anti-matter."
-- Charles Plymell, The Last of the
Moccasins, 1971, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:13:21 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: [nameless beatnicks] Re: Imploding Text
... something fun yet
serious
In-Reply-To: <34294A0F.5F48@midusa.net>
Mime-Version:
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david,
call me
wrong but i've a feel with the
missing
beat, noname beats,
cari
saluti,
rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:21:49 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jorgiana S Jake
<jorgiana@U.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Life & Times of Allen Ginsberg
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.16.19970920011531.26f78836@mail.wi.centuryinter.net>
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Well,
it seems as though I have started a debate.
I'm dropping by the
video
store tonight, I'll read the jacket of the movie.
Jorgiana
On Sat,
20 Sep 1997, Mike Rice wrote:
> At
10:38 PM 9/19/97 -0000, you wrote:
>
>Mike,
>
>
>
> No, no, no. . . Reeves was not portraying Kerouac. The entire
>
movie was
>
>based on a letter from Neal TO Jack. . .
how then would Jack be in the
>
>movie? Why would Neal write a
letter to Kerouac explaining to him the
>
>events that he had a been a party to?
>
> The character's name bore no
resemblance to Jack Kerouac and if I
>
recall
>
>correctly, the character was supposed to be about ten years older than
>
>Neal. I certainly don't claim to be
a Kerouackian expert, but there's no
>
>way that anyone should mistake the Keanu Reeves character for Jack Kerouac.
>
> The guy had absolutely no personality, no drive for life, no gusto,
>
>nothing but playing pool in shitty little pub. . . and his damn egg nog. .
>
>. Jack drank wine, not egg nog.
>
>
>
>Bruce
>
>bwhartmanjr@iname.com
>
>http://www.geocities.com/~tranestation
>
>
>
>
Was Neal called Neal? I don't remember,
and I don't really care
>
what anyone was called, and I don't care if the letter was
>
based on a letter Jack wrote, though it is not my sense that
>
the letter was from Jack. I know what
the film was about, it
>
was mostly about Neal, but it was sprinkled with a little manque
>
Jack. As for the covering of the Keanu
character. They can't use
> a
Jack character without the permission of the Heirs. Cassady is
> so
little known by mainstream folks that they would HAVE TO HAVE
> a
more recognized member of the Beats to even put this story on
>
the screen. That member is Kerouac, and
Reeves plays him, just as
> a
little seasoning in a story about Neal.
>
>
Mike Rice
>
* You
can always tell a Texan, but not much.*
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:26:15 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jorgiana S Jake
<jorgiana@U.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Life & Times of Allen Ginsberg
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.GSO.3.96.970920124042.2486A-100000@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca>
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>>Don't
mind my snipping:
> I
do think the director/writer did use his artistic license in trying to
>
make Keanu "Kerouacesque" as much as possible, just as he did with
the
>
character who shared a suit with Neal.
That character was closer to Allen
>
Ginsberg than Keanu Reeves was to Kerouac.
>>No
more snipping:
>
>
Warmest Regards,
>
>
Bob Whiteley
>
But
Ginsberg was portrayed in the film if I remember correctly. Even
hints
to a little homosexual tension between Neal and Allen.
Jorgiana
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:27:45 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jorgiana S Jake
<jorgiana@U.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: ESSENCE & LONGING
In-Reply-To: <3424464E.4FFB@sunflower.com>
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On Sat,
20 Sep 1997, Patricia Elliott wrote:
>
Chad J Blanchard wrote:
>
patricia wrote,
>
looks like spam to me.
> p
Nice
use of cap's as well!
Jorgiana>
* You
can always tell a Texan, but not much.*
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:33:00 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jorgiana S Jake
<jorgiana@U.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Life & Times of Allen Ginsberg
In-Reply-To:
<970921141132_-61831279@emout01.mail.aol.com>
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>
Mike,
> I
don't want to sound pushy or anything, but i really don't think it was
>
supposed to be Jack, but i'm just taking it from the context of the letter.
>
So, maybe i'm wrong, but that will change my entire opinion about the movie.
>
So, was the character "Benjamin" supposed to be Allen? I suspected
that the
>
director threw him in it for fun. Its not that I want to prove you wrong, but
>
Keanu Reeves as JK, gimme a break, that would be awful. If anyone has any
>
info. to add about this, i would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.
> ~~Marlene
See??? THAT'S what is scary. Like anyone can watch him without a
continuous
chant of keanu keanu keanu keanu going thru one's head! Poor
casting
choice if that was indeed the idea...but EGG NOG?
Jorgiana>
* You
can always tell a Texan, but not much.*
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:40:38 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jorgiana S Jake
<jorgiana@U.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: N.Y. TIMES - last Suicide review
Comments:
To: "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
In-Reply-To:
<199709232042.QAA23495@kanga.INS.CWRU.Edu>
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On Tue,
23 Sep 1997, Diane M. Homza wrote:
>
Reply to message from duncang@ENTO.CSIRO.AU of Mon, 22 Sep
>
>
>
>
>
> PRODUCTION NOTES:
>
>
>
> 'THE LAST TIME I COMMITTED
SUICIDE'
>
>
>
> With: Thomas Jane (Neal Cassady), Keanu Reeves (Harry),
>
> Adrien Brody (Ben), Claire
Forlani (Joan) and Gretchen
>
> Mol (Cherry Mary). Written
and directed by Stephen Kay;
>
> based on a letter written
by Neal Cassady to Jack
>
> Kerouac; director of
photography, Bobby Bukowski; edited
>
> by Dorian Harris; music by
Tyler Bates; production
>
> designer, Amy Ancona;
produced by Edward Bates and
>
> Louise Rosner; released by
Kushner-Locke Company, Roxie
>
> Releasing and Tapestry
Films.
>
>
>
>
>
Does anyone know if this Stephen Kay is a Beat enthusiast? It makes me
>
wonder how he happened upon this project...I don't think the letter is much
>
known outside of the Beat Enthusiast realm.
Oh, cure my wonderings,
>
someone! (and I greatly apologize if
this has been discussed before & I
>
just don't pay attention & the colelctive compnay decides to exile me
>
from posting anymore)
>
>
Diane. (H)
Okay,
and if anyone didn't notice, I have been out of town all weekend
and
OBVIOUSLY my mail reads backwards when going thru 175 messages. My
appologies
for all the messages regarding this movie.
I feel silly.
Sorry
again...
Jorgiana
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:17:10 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: [nameless beatnicks] Re: Imploding
Text ... something fun yet
serious
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Rinaldo
Rasa wrote:
>
>
david,
>
>
call me wrong but i've a feel with the
>
missing beat, noname beats,
>
>
cari saluti,
>
rinaldo.
i'm not
calling you wrong at all. i love your
project. i hope that it
can
bring new ideas into the thread i suggested.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:24:12 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: [nameless beatnicks] Re: Imploding
Text ... something fun yet
serious
MIME-Version:
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Rinaldo
Rasa wrote:
>
>
david,
>
>
call me wrong but i've a feel with the
>
missing beat, noname beats,
>
>
cari saluti,
>
rinaldo.
A tomb
for the Unknown Beatnik, dead of an overdose or America's
neglect, another memorial service among the memorial
services during
this
rough year for Beat icons, leave worn out bongos and very scratchy
Charlie
Parker albums--an eternal flame of alternating pot and cigarette
smoke
flickers . . .
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:05:53 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jorgiana S Jake
<jorgiana@U.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Douglas Brinkley and Kerouac (and
America)
In-Reply-To:
<970922155800_1630061747@emout11.mail.aol.com>
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TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Oh, how
I love my electronic friends! I just
picked up USA Today and
there
is an article in it (along with a loverly fuzzy picture of JK in a
suit).
Two new
books: Some of the Dharma and a special edition of OTR. Also a
really
hopping poetry reading tonight. More
books (Viking) in 2001 and
2002
(what a wait).
Thanks
for letting us know!
Jorgiana
On Mon,
22 Sep 1997, Diane De Rooy wrote:
> In
a message dated 97-09-22 14:42:06 EDT, you write:
>
>
<<
> I talked to Professor Brinkley on the phone
yesterday. He is in the
> process of editing Jack's road diaries (120
volumes of them!!) and a few
> pages will come out in the New Yorker this
December. He is also writing a
> biography on Kerouac >>
>
> I
understand it's true about the OTR journals, but I'm given to understand
>
there are not necessarily firm plans for a biography by Brinkley.
>
>
Apparently there will be a feature story on the subject in Wednesday's
>
USAToday. Anyway, that's what I hear.
>
>
diane
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:18:29 -0400
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From: NormNDy Farm
<sheeper@LAN2WAN.COM>
Organization:
AniMules, Inc.
Subject: Who is Who?
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Hi.
We're
currently reading *On The Road* in class right now, and got to
wondering
about the true identity of some of the characters in the book.
Obvioulsy,
Dean Moriarity is Neal Cassady, but what about the other
characters?
Does anyone know who Carlo, Ed Dunkel and the others are? Is
Carlo
actually Ginsberg? And is Kerouac's 'aunt' really his mother?
Thanks
for your input!
Norm
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:39:11 +0000
Reply-To: randyr@southeast.net
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Comments: Authenticated sender is
<randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>
From: randy royal
<randyr@MAILHUB.JAXNET.COM>
Subject: Re: Who is Who?
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>
Hi.
>
We're currently reading *On The Road* in class right now, and got to
>
wondering about the true identity of some of the characters in the book.
>
Obvioulsy, Dean Moriarity is Neal Cassady, but what about the other
>
characters? Does anyone know who Carlo, Ed Dunkel and the others are? Is
>
Carlo actually Ginsberg? And is Kerouac's 'aunt' really his mother?
>
Thanks for your input!
carlo
marx- allen ginsberg
ed
dunkel- ed sanders(?)
aunt-
mom
old
bull- william s. burruoghs
that's
it from the top of my head
levi-
don't you have a page about this?
>
Norm
>
randy
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:06:47 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Jonathan Pickle
<jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>
Subject: forgot to add
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Forgot
to add:
Jane
Lee is Joan Vollmer - the wife who WSB accidently killed portraying
William
tell in Mexico
Jon
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:56:01 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Jonathan Pickle
<jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>
Subject: Re: Who is Who?
Mime-Version:
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At
08:18 PM 9/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi.
>We're
currently reading *On The Road* in class right now, and got to
>wondering
about the true identity of some of the characters in the book.
>Obvioulsy,
Dean Moriarity is Neal Cassady, but what about the other
>characters?
Does anyone know who Carlo, Ed Dunkel and the others are? Is
>Carlo
actually Ginsberg? And is Kerouac's 'aunt' really his mother?
>Thanks
for your input!
>Norm
>
Carlo
Marx is Allen Ginsberg
Sal's
(JK) aunt is his mother
Old
Bull Lee is WSB
Tom
Saybrook is John Cellon Holmes
Elmo
Hassel is Herbert Huncke
Lucille
is based on a relationship with a girl name Pauline
I
believe Rocco is Paul Blake - his brother-in-law
I think
that Camille is LuAnn Henderson and Marylou is Carolyn Cassady but
i often
mix the two up. Maybe someone else can
clear this up.
Rollo
Greb is Alan Ansen
This is
ehat I have so far. All but Rocco,
Camille and Marylou are
certain. Can any one else add anything?
Jon
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:43:21 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Jym Mooney <vmooney@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: Who is Who?
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Jonathan
Pickle writes:
> I
think that Camille is LuAnn Henderson and Marylou is Carolyn Cassady
but
> i
often mix the two up. Maybe someone
else can clear this up.
Yeah,
you've got these two reversed...Camille is Carolyn, Marylou is LuAnn.
Also,
Randy Royal writes:
>ed
dunkel- ed sanders(?)
Ed
Dunkel is Ed Hinkel, not Sanders.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:30:47 +0200
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Robert De Niro, the beat.
In-Reply-To: <34294A0F.5F48@midusa.net>
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>From:
neato@pipeline.com
>neato
says:
>robert
deniro- father of the actor robert deniro..he was a street poet and
>artist..his
art is included in some of the poetry journals of the
>time...kerouac
mentions him in one of his books
friends,
i've the same interest in this subjest, it's possible
to
track robert deniro thru jack kerouac works? as his true name
or
pseudonym. anyone has notice of de niro's beat father?
cari
saluti da rinaldo.
-*-
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:11:50 BST
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Tom Harberd
<T.E.Harberd@UEA.AC.UK>
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I just
started my Beat Gen. Course at UEA (here in the UK),
and I
am well chuffed to find that a)it's run by a guy who's
just
finished a biography of WSB, and b)Caroline Cassady
(sic?)
is comming to speak to us.
Sing
Ho! For the life of a bear!
Tom H.
http://www.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759
"This
is the way the world ends, not with a bang but a
whimper."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 08:52:58 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Robert De Niro, the beat.
Mime-Version:
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At
09:30 AM 9/25/97 +0200, you wrote:
>>From:
neato@pipeline.com
>>neato
says:
>>robert
deniro- father of the actor robert deniro..he was a street poet and
>>artist..his
art is included in some of the poetry journals of the
>>time...kerouac
mentions him in one of his books
>
>friends,
i've the same interest in this subjest, it's possible
>to
track robert deniro thru jack kerouac works? as his true name
>or
pseudonym. anyone has notice of de niro's beat father?
>cari
saluti da rinaldo.
>-*-
>I will
put it on the page in the near future..Thank-you! Paul of TKQ...
"Do
not cumber yourself with fruitless pains to mend and remedy remote effects;
let the soul be erect, and all things go
well." Ralph Waldo Emerson,
"The
Transcendentalist"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 08:33:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: south
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Dear
beat-l. I will be leaving for Austin on Friday, Lena will be in
charge
of any emmergency beat postings. I will
be traveling for two
weeks.
Any sugggestion on readings or music in that media rich town. I
will be
visiting the green building folks. I
travel through Oklahoma on
the way
there, and will return by Louisiana and Arkansas, Missouri,
maybe
Rolla, then Kansas, GOD I love
geography.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:52:24 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
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At
01:11 PM 9/25/97 BST, you wrote:
>I
just started my Beat Gen. Course at UEA (here in the UK),
>and
I am well chuffed to find that a)it's run by a guy who's
>just
finished a biography of WSB, and b)Caroline Cassady
>(sic?)
is comming to speak to us.
>Sing
Ho! For the life of a bear!
>
>Tom
H.
>http://www.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759
>"This
is the way the world ends, not with a bang but a
>whimper."
>
>
You
Brits have all the luck. We have to pay
dearly
for
such elaborate beat service.
Mike
Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:05:55 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "Jon B. Pearlstone"
<THYE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: USA Today
I
missed the USA Today piece yesterday--having trouble searching for it on
line--can
someone give me the exact name and author of the article--any
details
would be appreciated--if you could e-mail it and save me the time
that
would be even better.
Thanks.
Jon
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:40:15 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's "Books"
In-Reply-To:
<v03007815b04ee0343ab6@[203.216.28.124]>
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On Wed,
24 Sep 1997, Timothy Hoffman wrote:
> Starting "Some of the
Dharma", I was impressed with the notes
>
displayed in the endcovers in which Kerouac had classified and outlined the
>
guidelines of his system of different writing types, including such
>
categories as: Blues, Dreams, Dharmas, Pops, Tics, Visions, Sketches, etc.
>
(which eventually were published as "Book of Blues", "Book of
Dreams",
>
"Visions of Gerard/Cody", etc.)
Cool.
Sounds a lot like the system Fitzgerald had. If you've never seen it,
and are
interested, there's a book out there called _The Notebooks of F.
Scott
Fitzgerald_, edited by Bruccoli. It contains categories such as Bright
Clippings,
Conversation and Things Overheard, Jingles and Songs, Karacters,
and
Moments (What people do).
Does
_Some of the Dharma_ go into this system in any depth, or say when he
started
using it?
email
stutz@dsl.org Copyright (c) 1997
Michael Stutz; this information is
<http://dsl.org/m/> free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL,
and as long
as this sentence remains;
it comes with absolutely NO
WARRANTY; for details see
<http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:36:39 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Jonathan Pickle
<jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>
Subject: Re: south
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At
08:33 AM 9/25/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Dear
beat-l. I will be leaving for Austin on Friday, Lena will be in
>charge
of any emmergency beat postings. I will
be traveling for two
>weeks.
Any sugggestion on readings or music in that media rich town. I
>will
be visiting the green building folks. I
travel through Oklahoma on
>the
way there, and will return by Louisiana and Arkansas, Missouri,
>maybe
Rolla, then Kansas, GOD I love
geography.
>p
>
I am
from just north of Austin and used to spend a lot of time there.
Sixth
Street is great to meet a lot of people as is The Drag(Guadalupe
around
30th street) All around the UT campus
you can find many great
people. The best bookstore in the world is Book
People located at sixth
and
Lamar (West of the interstate.)
Anything else I can help you with let
me
know. I've got a lot of great friends
down there in case you need some
help
once you get there.
Jon
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 15:03:31 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Marlene Giraud <M84M79@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: SPIN
Adam,
I understand where you were coming from.
Sorry if i sounded rude in my post,
but I
didn't want the fellow listers to get the wrong impression of
coffehouses.
Thankyou for your post, don'y worry I'm not offended. :)
~~~Marlene
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 15:47:50 -0400
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From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Web Page Addition: Kicks joy darkness
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I added
a page of pull quotes citing various reviews of kicks joy darkness.
Hope
you enjoy and thanks to those who sent me the book covers! To see the
new
page go to:
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/kicksjoydarkness.html
Thank-you,
Paul of The
Kerouac Quarterly. . .
"Do
not cumber yourself with fruitless pains to mend and remedy remote effects;
let the soul be erect, and all things go
well." Ralph Waldo Emerson,
"The
Transcendentalist"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 15:44:02 -0400
Reply-To: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UNDERGRAD.MATH.UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <ECS9709251350A@smtp.uea.ac.uk>
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On Thu,
25 Sep 1997, Tom Harberd wrote:
> I
just started my Beat Gen. Course at UEA (here in the UK),
>
and I am well chuffed to find that a)it's run by a guy who's
>
just finished a biography of WSB,
Who's
the guy, and when's the bio coming out?
Can't
be so glib with tid-bits like that Tom!
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 16:36:49 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: USA Today
Like
most online daily newspapers, the USA Today link is only good for the
day the
story is published, which was Wednesday, Sept. 24. Important stories
are
archived at the website, but usually not right away.
For
your interest, and for others who may not have had a chance to get there
while
it existed, I'm pasting the entire story below, sans graphics, which
was a
shot of the cover of "Some of the Dharma."
================================
<headline>40
years traveling Kerouac's 'Road'
<subhead>The
kicks just keep coming for followers of Jack Kerouac.
<Picture><Sidebar>
(Excerpt)
A
Vision of Sweet Heaven
Things
in the world are absent - not really there - I'm unhappy because my
life is
cold and strange - But it only appears to be so. In reality, there is
no
basis on which I can lay claim that I am not what I have thought. It's all
gone,
absent. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. We are taught to die. Long
suffering
gets even worse. There is absolutely no hope, and by the same law
there's
no sin. Rejoice in the moment, regulators of the world! Heaven is
very
silent.
- From
Some of the Dharma by Jack Kerouac
<Lead>This
month marks the 40th anniversary of the publication of On the
Road,
the author's seminal novel of Americana. Its original publisher, Viking
Press -
which published the novel Sept. 5, 1957, for $3.95 - has served up a
commemorative
double shot with a never-before-published book by Kerouac
called
Some of the Dharma, $32.95, and a special edition of On the Road,
$24.95.
And Wednesday night in New York, the
Poetry Project marks the event with
an
all-night marathon reading of On the Road at St. Mark's
Church-in-the-Bowery.
Among the 90 or so expected readers are jazz musician
and
Kerouac friend David Amram (who starts the reading at 7 p.m. ET);
Kerouac's
original literary agent, Sterling Lord; editor Richard Seaver;
musicians
Maggie Estep, Richard Hell and Lee Ranaldo (of Sonic Youth); and
Columbia
University historian Ann Douglas.
Viking
also has announced that it bought the rights to Kerouac's unpublished
journals,
photographs, tape recordings and other belongings for a definitive
biography,
due in the fall of 2001, and three volumes of journal entries, the
first
due in 2002.
"Jack sort of saved
everything," says Viking's Paul Slovak. "Readers
will
see American culture through Kerouac's eyes."
As
a teen in Lowell, Mass., and up until his death in St. Petersburg,
Fla.,
in 1969, Kerouac continually wrote - in neat script - in spiral
notebooks.
He described daily happenings and included poems, riddles, doodles
and
prayers, says Douglas Brinkley, a University of New Orleans historian
editing
the journals and writing the biography.
The first journals to be published (the
collection of notebooks has been
stored
in a bank vault in Lowell, Mass., since the writer's death) will be
those
written between 1947 and 1951 while Kerouac was traveling throughout
the USA
and Mexico. Those writings were the basis for On the Road, Brinkley
says.
On the Road (written in 1951, but turned
down by publishers until six
years
later) and Kerouac's other works (The Town and the City, The Dharma
Bums,
Desolation Angels) are largely autobiographical. Most are written in
his
spontaneous prose, a literary approach akin to jazz, specifically
"bop,"
as
played by Charlie Parker and others. Kerouac's scatological stories
detailed
his life and those of his friends, among them Allen Ginsberg, Neal
Cassady
and William Burroughs.
In the novels, he and his compatriots get
pseudonyms, but in Kerouac's
journals,
Brinkley says, "you get the real Ginsberg, the real Burroughs and
Cassady
. . . and others."
Overall, the journals represent "an
absolutely amazing historical
document
of one of the great literary voices of our time," Brinkley says.
Interest in Kerouac is on the rise, and
his legacy has prompted a
multimedia
blitz. Last year, musicians such as R.E.M.'s Michael Stipe, actors
Johnny
Depp and Matt Dillon, and writers Hunter S. Thompson and Lawrence
Ferlinghetti
were among those who contributed to a CD compilation based on
Kerouac
writings called kicks joy darkness.
Recent Kerouac books include The Portable
Jack Kerouac (Penguin, $14.95)
and the
reissued Jack Kerouac: Selected Letters, 1940-1956 (Penguin, $15.95),
both
edited by Kerouac biographer Ann Charters. A second collected-letters
volume
is due next year. Talk continues about a film based on On the Road,
too.
In Seattle, performance artist Vincent
Balestri's one-man show, Kerouac:
The
Essence of Jack, has been playing for nearly a year at the Velvet Elvis
Arts
Lounge Theater in Pioneer Square.
Now, Balestri is reading Some of the
Dharma and plans to add a scene
based
on it to his show in time for the Oct. 25 anniversary of its one-year
run. He
describes Dharma as a "quite intense" work in which Kerouac tried to
merge
Buddhism and Catholicism into his own take on religion.
Just as Kerouac "shook the
foundations of the establishment of
literature,"
Balestri says, the writer also was "prescient" in foreseeing
that
Eastern thought would become accepted by many Westerners.
The journals will continue to help
Kerouac "become more acceptable as a
literary
genius," he says.
Brinkley doesn't expect Kerouac's luster
to fade in the time it takes to
get the
journals and biography to press. That's because his writing continues
to
capture young, inquiring minds. For Gen Xers and those younger, Kerouac,
who
died at age 47, represents someone who put friends and lifestyle above
occupation
and material things. "Today's young people identify with him,"
Brinkley
says. "Kerouac didn't look for a job. Kerouac lived."
--By
Mike Snider, USA TODAY
===============================
diane
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 15:14:13 CDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "Lundburg, Wes"
<wlundburg@MAIL.FF.CC.MN.US>
Subject: Re: Who is who?
The
following is an attached Text item from cc:Mail. It contains
information
that had to be encoded to ensure successful transmission
through
various mail systems. To decode the
file use the UUDECODE
program.
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Cut Here ---------------------------------
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end
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 18:23:28 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Some net-based Burroughs research
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date:
Thu, 25 Sep 1997 22:43:16 +0200
From:
BAUDRON Isabelle <baudron@interpc.fr>
To:
Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
<snipped>
Dear
friends,
One
month and a half after the beginning of this adventure,
around
80 people who wrote to Burroughs' Memorial asked for
being kept
in touch or participating. I also send
this to
eleven
people, who did not kept in touch after getting the
machine,
in case they would be interested
in the
following, as a test : but in case anybody does not
want to
be involved anymore, please
tell
me, and I shall take you our of the address book.
>From
all the propositions and subjects of interests, we
have
several groups :
1. WEB
SITE:
Most of
people think we need a web site to publish our
texts,
the news concerning the activities of the group,
etc. So
do I. Some people have already begun to work at it.
You can
see the first results at :
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/gary.leeming/index.htm
Gary is
taking the site in charge. So you can contact him
at
<gary.leeming@ukonline.co.uk>
We can
also use the site to make a magazine, every 3 month
for
instance.
For those who are not used to make web pages,
as I was 3
days
ago, it is quite simple to make with the computer
itself
which contains the elements to make it : it took me
an
afternoon using the help included in the computer to
learn
to make it.
2.
MUSICIANS AND PERFORMERS:
Tom
Matthews proposed to take in charge this group, to
gather
archives, recordings,
audio
and video-tapes, etc., and to find ways to sell,
exchange,
etc., them. You can join him at:
<
tmathews@MicroAge-tb.com>
Tom
proposes to print tee shirts and sell them.
He is
also working on a computer-based version of the
dreamachine
(using glasses and a cable
attached
to a computer's printer port and has also home
built
sound manipulation hardwares.
3 .
POETS, WRITERS :
Some
people have begun to send texts to include in the book
"Le
temps des Naguals" I have already
written, and which
contains
interviews and texts of and about Burroughs and
Gysin.
I have recorded all the writings sent in a second
part.
For
those who would like to see their texts published in
the
site, I can make a web page for them, but you can also
make
it, which would be more personal, so every text could
be as
well an art work made by its author. What do you
think?
4.
CONTACTS:
Some
people would like to be in touch and have exchanges
with
other members.
For
establishing contacts, we have different possibilities:
a) I can make an address book with the names,
E-mails
addresses,
and main subjects of interest of people who want
to have
contacts: for instance :
Isabelle
Baudron - baudron@interpc.fr - Dreams third mind,
web-site,
and exchanges.
So
everyone wanting to be in the address book can sends me
this,
and I include it in a special address book that I
shall
send by E-mail to each sender, so it will remain
limited
to its members, to preserve privacy.
b) We can have a chat-room on ICQ for
direct contacts. As
there
are members in US, most of countries of Europe and
Australia,
it should be possible to get in touch with
someone
at any time of day and night. I got a page there
UIN
#3146693, where you can also join me. But I have no
experience
of chat room, so if you want to contact me
through
it, do not
be
astonished if it takes some times.
c) We can make a Newsletter, and
spread it by E-mail.
d) We can use the web site for
exchanges and contacts.
e) Some people have been making groups
of E-mail
exchanges.
Some people who wrote in the Memorial have also
established
their own contacts and groups. In case you
think
the result of your exchanges might be valuable for
others
and would like to see them published,
we can
also include them in the book, with or without your
coordinates,
and after you have checked their content.
5.
DREAMS:
Several
people have been sending dreams, some write them
down
and would be interested in a group of research about
it. I have been noting them since 1981 and am
also
interesting
in a common work and exchanges.
Several
people have been making dreams about Burroughs. It
might
be interesting to gather them and see what comes out
of it,
and what they can teach us on Burroughs influence on
this
part of our life. This might be included in the book
as
well.
6.
SCIENTIFIC AND MEDICAL RESEARCH:
Some
people are interested in research in precise domains:
apomorphine,
new treatments for quieting anxious people,
for
cancer, intoxication, etc.).
I am a
psychiatric nurse, having stopped working since some
years
after 15 years at the hospital. I am interested in
making
medical research in the domains of expansion of
conscience,
treatments of addiction, (I have the protocol
of
apomorphine cure written by Ian Somerville if you want)
cancers,
and any treatment allowing to strengthen the
defenses
of organism.
I
propose we use the opportunity of our group to gather
informations
in those domains, or others you might have in
mind,
and make a group of research with doctors, nurses and
therapists
of the group, plus all the people interested. I
do not
intend to work in a hospital anymore, but if my
experience
can be of any use in the context of this group,
it is
at your disposal.
7. BURROUGHSIAN
CONCEPTS AND DOMAINS OF RESEARCH:
Some
would like to work on specific themes as third-mind,
evil
spirit, control, magic, sex, synchronicities, etc. I
am
quite interested too by all this.
Some
people have begun exchanges on those domains.
8. THE
ACADEMY:
The
idea of making an Academy in a castle, big house, etc.,
is part
of the dreams of quite a lot of people. But it
implies
practical problems due to a static place which may
not be
adapted to our Cyber experiment, and require
spending
money to go to the place, etc.
To me
the main interest for such a place would
be, besides
the
Academy which can also be settled on the web, to have a
place
where we could meet, and which could be a temporary
shelter
for the members of the group who need it, sort of
an
Interzone we can come to for making a break out of the
daily
context.
Anyway
for the moment this is not the most urgent thing. We
can
begin to use the tools we already got at our disposal.
In case
an opportunity comes, then I propose we study it
together.
But spending time and energy in looking for it
now
does not seem adapted for the moment
Max, who is also French, proposes to organize
the Academy
as TAZ
(temporary autonomous zones) on the web, according
to Hakim
Bey's experiment. I still have to get more
informations
on the subject because it's new to me. What do
you
think?
9. THE
NAME OF OUR GROUP :
Here
are the first propositions:
-
Tarzan Society
- Ah
Pook Academy
-
Junkshakes
- The
People's Republic of Interzone
- Grey
Johnson or Endless Johnson Family or Dead Johnsons
Incorporated
-
Invisible Corp
- Beat
Hotel
- Room
23
10
. LANGUAGES:
For the
moment we cover the following languages: English,
French,
Spanish, German, Dutch, Norwegian, Slovak,
Sweedish,
Portuguese, Italian, Greek, Chinese, Japanese.
We
might use all this knowledge for translations of our
writings,
or Burroughs' and Gysin's books, which have not
been
translated in some languages. We can make translation
groups,
which allows getting to a quick and good result.
Some
people who have a personal web sites in different
countries
could make pages about the group in their
language
and link them together, and to our site.
So this is a set of opportunities we got
altogether,
enough
to begin to work for the moment.
I hope
you enjoy it.
Thanks
again for your concern, propositions and
participation.
Love to
all.
Izzy