=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:00:55 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or
Just a Few?
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The Kerouac Quarterly contacted the estate
for a comment on Gerald
Nicosia's
posting.The below comment is from John Sampas, Executor of the
Estate
of Jack and Stella Kerouac -
"
Gerald Nicosia's poisoned hand will never touch the Kerouac archive. His
touch
is the touch of death."
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.com
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:50:45 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: ANNE ELIZABETH SNEDDON
<sneddon@NEVADA.EDU>
Subject: Re: burroughsian scholars?
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.OSF.3.91.971015003316.13313A-100000@turbo.kean.edu>
MIME-Version:
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Jason,
what do you think is going to happen when the movie of "On the
Road"
is released? American popular culture is such that it embraces only
the
superficialities and discards the rest.
Remember when "The Doors"
movie
was released and every little kid searching for an identity became
an
instant Doors fanatic? And what about this instant acceptance by MTV of
Punk
Rock a la Green Dan and Offspring--rebellion without all those
annoying
"political lyrics." I predict that a wave of berets and black
turtlenecks
will hit the shopping malls as soon as that movie comes out.
cynically
yours ;>
Anne
Sneddon
On Wed,
15 Oct 1997, PoOka(the friendly ghost) wrote:
> Is
there such a think as a "burroughsian scholar", one who researches
and
>
analyses all of Bill's work? If so, this person would have libraries full
> of
information based on books, letters and essays that Bill has written
>
over the years. It seems that Bill has left us with an eternal supply of
>
information and creativity.
> oh here's a horrible thought: what if
a 90s beat film was made
>
and corporate america actually embraced such a thing? could you fathom a
>
Kerouac "Happy-meal" or a Ginsberg action figure?
> -some
humor....
> jason
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:20:06 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: archive
The
disk that holds the archive for Beat-l is full. As a result, Fred
Bogin
and I will have to do something to free disk space. Our plan is
to
download all 1995 files and to erase them from the online archive. I
will
work on editing the downloaded files and restore those threads that
I think
have archival importance at a later date.
If anyone has any
interest
in keeping all postings to Beat-l for whatever mad reason, now
would be
a good time download those files to your hard drive.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:46:06 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or
Just a Few?
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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At
05:00 PM 10/15/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
The Kerouac Quarterly contacted the estate for a comment on Gerald
>Nicosia's
posting.The below comment is from John Sampas, Executor of the
>Estate
of Jack and Stella Kerouac -
>
>"
Gerald Nicosia's poisoned hand will never touch the Kerouac archive. His
>touch
is the touch of death."
>
This
response makes me think psychos are running the archive.
This is
crazy talk.
Why
don't they act rationally and say they disagree with Nicosia because
this this
and this or something rather than psychotic rambling about the
touch
of death.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:47:37 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Paul Maher of the Libel Quarterly
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
05:00 PM 10/15/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
The Kerouac Quarterly contacted the estate for a comment on Gerald
>Nicosia's
posting.The below comment is from John Sampas, Executor of the
>Estate
of Jack and Stella Kerouac -
>
>"
Gerald Nicosia's poisoned hand will never touch the Kerouac archive. His
>touch
is the touch of death."
>
Oct 15, 1997
Paul,
As someone who was banned from this
list previously for making
libelous
statements, you are coming perilously close to libel once again.
If Mr.
Sampas indeed made this statement, why can't he log on to the
Beat-List
himself and announce his opinion in his own voice? If, however,
you are
simply making up curses for him, then I believe you are indeed
committing
libel against me.
Gerald Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:01:13 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: archive
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
05:20 PM 10/15/97 EDT, you wrote:
>The
disk that holds the archive for Beat-l is full. As a result, Fred
>Bogin
and I will have to do something to free disk space. Our plan is
>to
download all 1995 files and to erase them from the online archive. I
>will
work on editing the downloaded files and restore those threads that
>I
think have archival importance at a later date. If anyone has any
>interest
in keeping all postings to Beat-l for whatever mad reason, now
>would
be a good time download those files to your hard drive.
>
>
how do we
access the beat archive?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:04:47 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Donald E. Winters"
<winte030@TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Ferlinghetti record?
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I am
writing this because (1) I'm not getting responses when i send queries to
the
other address. I have been asking again
and again if anyone knows where I
can
find the recording (to jazz
accompanyment) of Ferlinghetti reading "Coney
Island
of the Mind." I have been unable
to find it anywhere. My e-mail address
is as
follows; winte030@tc.umn.edu I have
also received a response about
what
peoples' opinion is about why the poem "America" says, in the first
published
edition, "when will you be worthy of your million trotskyites" and in
his
first reading: "when will you be wothy of your million Christs."
What's
up?--
Donald Winters
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:04:55 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sean Young <syoung@DSW.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone
or Just a Few?
Mime-Version:
1.0
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Too sad, too sad. It would be great if
this could be discussed in a
more "beatific" manner.
Something that shows compassion for Jack's
legacy. This legacy is not only
"material". It is so much more.
Sean D. Young
______________________________
Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject:
Re: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or Just a Few?
Author: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> at Internet
Date: 10/15/97 5:00 PM
The Kerouac Quarterly contacted the estate
for a comment on Gerald
Nicosia's
posting.The below comment is from John Sampas, Executor of the
Estate
of Jack and Stella Kerouac -
"
Gerald Nicosia's poisoned hand will never touch the Kerouac archive. His
touch
is the touch of death."
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.com
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:10:22 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Donald E. Winters"
<winte030@TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: To Gerald Nicosia
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Good
luck. I'm with you. Donald Winters
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:11:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or
Just a Few?
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Sean
Young wrote:
>
> Too sad, too sad. It would be great if this
could be discussed in a
> more "beatific" manner.
-OR-
"here
we go again!"
dbr
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:31:12 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matthew S Sackmann
<msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>
Subject: Re: burroughsian scholars?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.91.971015003316.13313A-100000@turbo.kean.edu>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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On Wed,
15 Oct 1997, PoOka(the friendly ghost) wrote:
> Is
there such a think as a "burroughsian scholar", one who researches
and
>
analyses all of Bill's work? If so, this person would have libraries full
> of
information based on books, letters and essays that Bill has written
>
over the years. It seems that Bill has left us with an eternal supply of
>
information and creativity.
> oh here's a horrible thought: what if
a 90s beat film was made
>
and corporate america actually embraced such a thing? could you fathom a
>
Kerouac "Happy-meal" or a Ginsberg action figure?
> -some
humor....
> jason
>
WOW...I
think a Kerouac "Happy-Meal" would be wonderful!
And the
toy would be a little bottle of port wine (my friend Alison says
as she
reads over my shoulder)
and a
Ginsberg action figure, i think we're really on to something here.
Im
gonna buy the car that comes with all three!
Jack and Neal and Allen.
(My
friend Alison says that somethings are just dumb)
And
Neal comes with hammer-flipping action.
And Ginsberg has a string up
his ass--when
you pull it he says, "I saw the best minds..."
And
Jack has bottle drinking action. Put
anything in his hand and watch
it
dissapear.
Then
there's bill burroughs and if you're really cool (and your parents
got
dough) you'll get the Marijuana farm.
HA,
this is great.
my new
life objective is to make beat action figures.
-matt
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 18:37:31 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jonathan Pickle
<jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ferlinghetti record?
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Might
Allen be talking, synonomously? Just a
thought.
Jon
At
05:04 PM 10/15/97 -0500, you wrote:
>I
am writing this because (1) I'm not getting responses when i send
queries
to
>the
other address. I have been asking again
and again if anyone knows
where I
>can
find the recording (to jazz
accompanyment) of Ferlinghetti reading
"Coney
>Island
of the Mind." I have been unable
to find it anywhere. My e-mail
address
>is
as follows; winte030@tc.umn.edu I
have also received a response about
>what
peoples' opinion is about why the poem "America" says, in the first
>published
edition, "when will you be worthy of your million trotskyites"
and in
>his
first reading: "when will you be wothy of your million Christs."
What's
>up?--
Donald Winters
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:48:54 -0700
Reply-To: "Michael R. Brown"
<foosi@global.california.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael R. Brown"
<foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>
Subject: Re: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or
Just a Few?
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.32.19971015210055.006902bc@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed,
15 Oct 1997, Paul A. Maher Jr. wrote:
> The Kerouac Quarterly contacted the estate
for a comment on Gerald
>
Nicosia's posting.The below comment is from John Sampas, Executor of the
>
Estate of Jack and Stella Kerouac -
>
"Gerald Nicosia's poisoned hand will never touch the Kerouac archive.
>
His touch is the touch of death."
That's
interesting. Whose heavy hand is resting upon the archives right
now? It
is not Gerald Nicosia's.
(And
Nicosia evinced no designs upon the archive. He suggested it be put
under
stewardship at a scholarly institution by mutual agreement. Is
the
idea that in order to prevent the purpotedly fatal Nicosia touch upon
a
single piece of the Kerouac opera, the archive shall be open to _none_?)
The
closed first or the open palm ... which is better here? You decide.
+ -- +
-- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +
Michael R. Brown foosi@global.california.com
+ -- +
-- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +
"Why can't it just
be, Michael?"
Simunye, in conversation with
Foosi, September 1997
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:07:04 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael R. Brown"
<foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>
Subject: Re: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or
Just a Few?
In-Reply-To: <199710152146.OAA26632@hsc.usc.edu>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed,
15 Oct 1997, Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:
>
This response makes me think psychos are running the archive.
The
Hungarian piano virtuoso Ervin Nyiregyhazi (1903-1987), pupil of one
of
Liszt's pupils, in his prime probably on a par with Vladimir Horowitz,
composed
more than 700 pieces of music that were left unpublished in
manuscript
upon his death. Will we ever get to know what these works
were
like? Not until Nyiregyhazi's exector dies, most likely, becase she -
N's
*tenth* wife - and her new husband are said to hate Nyiregyhazi's
memory
and just want the whole thing forgotten.
Wilhelm
Reich. Brilliant, crazy, brilliant. Strong influence on Burroughs
and
Ginsberg. His will was worded ambiguously re. putting his private
papers
in storage for fifty years so history could not be falsified. His
executor
interprets will to mean no one shall have any access
whatsoever
- including sympathetic scholars. We will have to wait until,
what,
2008, to read his private writings.
Mary
MacLane (1881-1929 - COMMERCIAL WARNING: I published an anthology
of her
work in 1994). Talented, eccentric, bisexual, wrote about it at
age 19
in 1901 and got it published. Mentioned by Peters and Ferlinghetti
in
_Literary San Francisco_ book. Wrote and starred in own silent movie
1918
_Men Who Have Made Love to Me_. Last ten years of her life a mystery.
Apparently
died intestate - family sequestering letters she wrote during
last 10
years of her life. Will we ever know what she did 1919-1929?
Probably
not.
Anyone
see a pattern?&D{l^
t works
> This is crazy talk. >
>
Why don't they act rationally and say they disagree with Nicosia because
>
this this and this or something rather than psychotic rambling about the
>
touch of death.
>
+ -- +
-- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +
Michael R. Brown foosi@global.california.com
+ -- +
-- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +
"Why can't it just
be, Michael?"
Simunye, in conversation with
Foosi, September 1997
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 19:27:20 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Paul Maher of the Libel Quarterly
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I was
officiating as a spokesperson for The Kerouac Quarterly and not John
Sampas.
Nor do I take a biased stand upon this situation. Should John Sampas
had
posted and Gerald Nicosia had made a comment to me about it, I would
have
posted it verbatim by his wishes. Interpret this message as you will, I
am
commiting no libel in performingthis action. Please contact John Sampas
to
verify this, his number islisted. Paul...
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:12:12 -0700
Reply-To: "Michael R. Brown"
<foosi@global.california.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael R. Brown"
<foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>
Subject: Re: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or
Just a Few?
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.BSI.3.95.971015154910.20048G-100000@global.california.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed,
15 Oct 1997, Michael R. Brown wrote:
>
Anyone see a pattern?&D{l^
Ooops.
Line noise made email send too soon.
Anyone
see a pattern? Executors hanging on for dear life to creative
remains.
Sad.
"Seeking
life, I found aught but death. T'was only when I sought death
that I
found life."
- that guy Burroughs
called the Bard,
quoted from memory
+ -- +
-- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +
Michael R. Brown foosi@global.california.com
+ -- +
-- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +
"Why can't it just
be, Michael?"
Simunye, in conversation with
Foosi, September 1997
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 18:52:05 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matthew S Sackmann
<msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or
Just a Few?
Comments:
To: "Michael R. Brown" <foosi@global.california.com>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.95.971015153137.20048F-100000@global.california.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>
> "Gerald Nicosia's poisoned hand will never touch the Kerouac archive.
>
> His touch is the touch of death."
"Life
is suffering, it ends when you're dead."
-AG
And we
all know that Jack knew that true perfection would never be
reached
until death. He felt so bad that he
brought a perfect soul into
this
imperfect world that he would not accept her.
He didn't want to
acknowledge
his own imperfections through the existence of a child.
I'd
take that as a comment, Gerald.
kind of serious kind of not,
matt
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:57:51 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael R. Brown"
<foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>
Subject: Re: archive
In-Reply-To: <199710152201.PAA29730@hsc.usc.edu>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed,
15 Oct 1997, Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:
>
how do we access the beat archive?
You
wouldn't be wanting to inflict the touch of death upon it, now would
you?
+ -- +
-- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +
Michael R. Brown foosi@global.california.com
+ -- +
-- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +
"Why can't it just
be, Michael?"
Simunye, in conversation with
Foosi, September 1997
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:00:58 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael R. Brown"
<foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: The Kerouac Legacy--for
Everyone or Just a Few?
In-Reply-To: <4453DE00.1326@dsw.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed,
15 Oct 1997, Sean Young wrote:
> Too sad, too sad. It would be great if
this could be discussed in a
> more "beatific" manner.
Something that shows compassion for Jack's
> legacy. This legacy is not only
"material". It is so much more.
Wasn't
there some physicist named Einstein who showed that matter and
energy
were not separate? Artists and new-bell-bottomed-Gen-X-lovely-kids
know
it, Bach knew it, but it's not yet percolated down to literary
executors.
+ -- +
-- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +
Michael R. Brown foosi@global.california.com
+ -- +
-- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +
"Why can't it just
be, Michael?"
Simunye, in conversation with
Foosi, September 1997
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:03:58 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: civil discourse
Please
everyone, let's keep a cool head when we discuss the estate. No
name
calling or accusations! If you want to
make a point, please do so
graciously
and with civility or don't do it on this list.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:41:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: civil discourse
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At
08:03 PM 10/15/97 EDT, you wrote:
>Please
everyone, let's keep a cool head when we discuss the estate. No
>name
calling or accusations! If you want to
make a point, please do so
>graciously
and with civility or don't do it on this list.
>
Agreed.
I have been caught under fire with this before. Everyone is free to
interpret
the estate's comment at their own free will. I myself cannot
conclude
nor agree with this comment. What I do know is that many of the
projects
for the Kerouac "legacy" are put on hold until the termination or
settlement
of this lawsuit. I know there are enough things to release and
again,
most of the archives are indeed available. The abundance of
submissions
I receive for the quarterly is evidence enough of the people who
are
actually using them. When, not if, the details of this lawsuit are
settled,
you will see many things happening with the archives. I personally
think
that any person will be hard-pressed to produce evidence of the
archives
being under neglect, abandon, abuse, or responsive to the demands
of the
public at large. The Hemingway Estate and the Faulkner Estate, and
even
the Thoreau Estate still haven't produced the complete archives to the
public.
It is just a fact of life you have to live with. Has everyone even
fully
digested Some of the Dharma yet? For Mr. Nicosia to callmy quarterly
the
"Libel Quarterly" is a feeble attempt to raise a libelous comment
from
me.
Good Luck. I am still waiting for the FBI....Paul of The Kerouac
Quarterly...
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry
David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:23:36 -0400
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From: ncary <ncary@CLARK.NET>
Subject: Re: burroughsian scholars?
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.94.971015171808.68070A-100000@spnode03.tcs.tulane.edu>
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Hi
folks,
Regarding
Burrough scholars, there is a new book on Burroughs scheduled
for
January 1998 and
yes in
the
works
before his death. Though I guess the author might hold it back for
some
revising.
It is
called Wising Up the Marks: The Amodern William Burroughs by Timothy
S.
Murphy at UCLA. The U of Cal Press is publisher. Scheduled as $45
cloth,
$17.95 pb.
The
desc says Murphy draws on such folks as Adorno, Sartre, Guattari,
and
Deleuze....and it describes WSB as "a writer who combines aesthetics
and
politics and who can perform as anthropologist, social goad, or media
icon,
al with consummate skill"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:52:23 -0400
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Denver
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While I
suspect that the Denver stuff is in jest, and as much as his
"image"
was kinda yucky sacherine (sp) type of thing, he did write some
good
songs. The one mentioned about passing
the pipe around was a very
good
song. Rocky Mountain High was about
being in an altered state to
watch a
meterorite shower in the Rockies. And,
like it or not, Country
Roads
hit an archetype (sp) dead on. I can
only remember two more of
his
songs, Grandma's Feather Bed, which was quite good, and the other
was the
easy to dislike thing about Fill Me Again.
I
believe he started out as a true folkie and did a time with the New
Christy
Minstrels. I also do not think that his image and he were the
same. After all, he sang about getting high and
was popped more than
once of
DWI/DUI.
But
beat, well, I don't think that was a serious question, was it?
:-)
BTW, I
traded my John Denver songbook for a Jethro Tull song book. I
came
out on top.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 00:53:37 UT
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From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: civil discourse
Thanks
Bill, a DISCUSSION of the matter might be useful and result in
something
constructive; otherewise, we get nowhere.
ciao,
sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Bill Gargan
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 1997 5:03 PM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: civil discourse
Please
everyone, let's keep a cool head when we discuss the estate. No
name
calling or accusations! If you want to
make a point, please do so
graciously
and with civility or don't do it on this list.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:58:23 -0400
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
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Subject: Re: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or
Just a Few?
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Paul A.
Maher Jr. wrote:
> The Kerouac Quarterly contacted the estate
for a comment on Gerald
>
Nicosia's posting.The below comment is from John Sampas, Executor of
>
the
>
Estate of Jack and Stella Kerouac -
>
>
" Gerald Nicosia's poisoned hand will never touch the Kerouac archive.
>
His
>
touch is the touch of death."
>
Paul:
I guess
you can post what you wish, but I don't see why these old wounds
keep
getting reopened. If Sampas wants to
comment on something, tell
him to
come on list. As for me, I was glad to
see this old thread die
and
hope it stays dead. I don't see how
this advances discussions of
Beat-L,
but maybe others feel differently.
Thanks,
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:00:47 -0400
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
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Subject: Well, if only
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Well,
if only I had made it a few more posts, I would have seen you got
there
first. Funny that I said kinda the same
thing about Sampas
showing
his own self.
Take
care,
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:48:46 -0400
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From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or
Just a Few?
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>Paul:
>
>I
guess you can post what you wish, but I don't see why these old wounds
>keep
getting reopened. If Sampas wants to
comment on something, tell
>him
to come on list. As for me, I was glad
to see this old thread die
>and
hope it stays dead. I don't see how
this advances discussions of
>Beat-L,
but maybe others feel differently.
>
I don't
think it reopened anything. It is a fact of life in the world of
litigation
and copyright. If this is what the Estate has to say isn't anyone
curious
to hear it voiced? Or....hidden. I am officiating as a contributor
to the
Beat-L as I have many times in the past. I live in close proximity to
the
Estae. I simply call, like any one of you can (1-978-458-2708), the
Estate
and ask quite frankly what's up? I am curious. Do you want me to keep
it to
my self in the future? How do you know he isn't on the list one way or
the
other? I can still sleep at night no matter what anybody says, no wounds
are
ever opened. I thought we were all adults here, perhaps you only are
satisfied
with falsehoods or propaganda instead of the truth. If that is the
case
then so be it...my truths and discoveries will find their place in the
quarterly,
which, far from being libelous in any degree is fast becoming
respected
in the academic community. Thanks for reading, Paul of TKQ. . .
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:01:12 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or
Just a Few?
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>> The Kerouac Quarterly contacted the estate
for a comment on Gerald
>>
Nicosia's posting.The below comment is from John Sampas, Executor of
>>
the
>>
Estate of Jack and Stella Kerouac -
>>
>>
" Gerald Nicosia's poisoned hand will never touch the Kerouac archive.
>>
His touch is the touch of death."
first of all, glad to be back on the
list, i see that, after a
year,
the same threads are stil strong, interesting.. I just finished
Memory
Babe and all I can say is wow. Any
biographical info I read
from
here on is going to be redundant. my
hat off to Mr. Nicosia for
beautiful
piece of work. as for mr. sampas'
comment, well, all of this
crap
seems to be steeped in the same garbage.
everyone knows Jacks's
wishes
concerning his archives, and for anyone involved in the
preservation
of those archives to subvert his desire in any way is only
serving
their own pathetic desires. i mean, how
hard is it to
understand? if Jack wanted it, then relinquish the stuff
to everyone
who
loves him and his work. make it
available, in libraries, on the
internet,
free.. the beauty of the written word is it's infinite
reproducibility. i don't necessarily agree with making the
originals
accessible
to anybody who walks in off the street... but at the same
time
you can't hoard them. Many of you are
sick of this discussion,
but the
fact remains that the incessant bullshit continues... it's just
incomprhensibly
annoying. what the hell was Ginsberg
doing when he
dismissed
Jan's crusade in her father's name as insignificant? i
dunno...
just seems a lot more complicated than it really needs to
be....
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:18:03 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or
Just a Few?
In-Reply-To: <344566AF.5C3F2530@scsn.net> from
"R. Bentz Kirby" at Oct 15,
97 08:58:23 pm
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Bentz
wrote:
> I
guess you can post what you wish, but I don't see why these old wounds
>
keep getting reopened. If Sampas wants
to comment on something, tell
>
him to come on list. As for me, I was
glad to see this old thread die
>
and hope it stays dead. I don't see how
this advances discussions of
>
Beat-L, but maybe others feel differently.
I agree
-- the last time we discussed the Kerouac estate a lot of
people
ended up acting like real jerks. Just
please let's not
get
back into "You started it" "No you started it" "No
*you*
started
it" "No *he* started it".
And please, anybody who's
posting
about the Kerouac estate -- if you're posting more
than
once a day, you're getting too emotional.
Over
and out ...
------------------------------------------------------
| Levi
Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
|
|
|
| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (the beat literature web site) |
|
|
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
| |
|
*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---* |
|
|
| Mister, I ain't a boy, no I'm
a man |
------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:30:56 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
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does anyone on the list have any videos
of Jack? interviews,
etc.?
they'd be willing to copy for me, or trade for copies of whatever
I might
have that they'd be interested in? very
interested in seeing
Jack on
video. Is there a bootleg market for
rare Kerouac recordings?
are
there rare Kerouac recordings in circ?
anyone with knowledge in
this
area please offer your insight. thanks.
also, what exactly is availble to the
public for research in the
places
where archival stuff is stored, if any at all?
like in a new
york
library? has that all been put on hold till the suits are resolved?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:53:38 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Beat-l a fact only.
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"I
would like to see a Kerouac committee in Lowell, for instance, that does
not
simply organize presentations that please Mr. Sampas. I feel it was a
disgrace
again, at Kerouac week this year, that not a single mention was
made of
Jan Kerouac's death, no form of tribute, either in photos, readings
of her
work, spoken memories of her, was given--DESPITE THE FACT THAT JAN'S
REMAINS
WERE BURIED IN NEARBY NASHUA, NEW HAMPSHIRE, ONLY FOUR MONTHS
BEFORE,
on June 5, 1997." - Gerry Nicosia
Last
year at our (LCK) main event at the Smith Baker Center Ed Sanders paid
a nice
tribute to Jan Kerouac with John, Tony and Jim Sampas sitting in the
audience
watching the show. Bill Gargan our list administrator was there
and can
verify this. This year at the mass for Jack and Stella we were all
asked
to pray for the soul of Jan Kerouac and I heard both Tony and John
Sampas
voice distinctly say "Lord hear our prayer" along with the rest of
the
people attending the service. It was a prominent Kerouac committee
member
who mentioned Jan and asked the congregation to pray for her soul.
If you
don't believe this Gerry you can call father Gallager at St. Louis
de
France church in Lowell and ask him. Gerry you weren't there at either
time so
you don't know what happened and you try to get the beat-l group
against
Lowell Celebrates Kerouac committee for some personal vendetta. We
are a
group of all volunteers with basically no money to speak of. We all
work
very hard to put this on every year because we love Jack. Nobody gets
paid
one red cent. Keep your argument with John and not with us and don't
try to
drag down a group of people who work very hard every year for a good
cause.
Our meetings are public we meet the third Thursday of the Month we
are
accepting proposals for events next year. All members of the beat-l are
invited
to attend. We welcome your support. To make a donation,
or to
find out more about Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!, Inc., write:
P.O.
Box 1111, Lowell, MA 01853.
Phil Chaput
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:51:42 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: 9th district
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i just
recieved an e-mail from that stated
"
This is
Shokkee of the 9th Dist.
I am writing with open arms and an open mind to hear
suggestions
and
comments
of your personal favorites listed among the "Beat Super Nova,"
crew
list.
I have
never heard of this. any ideas or information what this could be
about
patricia
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:53:18 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: let's get our facts straight
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October 15, 1997
In
response to posts by Paul Maher and Phil Chaput:
As much as I admire the loyalty Mr.
Maher and Mr. Chaput have shown
to
their leader, coming to his aid after he was knocked to the canvas in
Florida,
I must point out that most of what they have to say is quite far
from
the truth.
Mr. Maher again trots out his old
argument--"most of the archives
are
indeed available"--when in our last verbal go-round I listed the entire
contents
of the Kerouac archive, and PROVED that no more than 5%, if that
much,
are actually available at the Berg Collection at the New York Public
Library. I have never denigrated that collection, and
I do not denigrate it
now. Jan Kerouac and I met with Rodney Phillips,
the curator, and we both
liked
him. It was clear that he WOULD LIKE TO
OWN the Jack Kerouac archive.
But 5%
or less can hardly give scholars what they need to assess the
development
of Kerouac's whole oeuvre.
What is there is certainly worth
looking at. But the numerous
drafts
of a dozen major books, including VISIONS OF CODY, VISIONS OF GERARD,
ON THE
ROAD, DHARMA BUMS, BIG SUR, DR. SAX, THE SUBTERRANEANS, and VANITY OF
DULUOZ,
are simply not there. Only small pieces
of two other major works,
DESOLATION
ANGELS and MAGGIE CASSIDY, are available there. Most of his
unpublished
books (many of them never finished) are not there--VISIONS OF
BILL,
VISIONS OF LUCIEN, AND THE HIPPOS WERE BOILED IN THEIR TANKS, THE SEA
IS MY
BROTHER, MEMORY BABE, and a dozen others, including a whole novel
written
in French. Only a tiny portion of the
notebooks are there. Only a
smattering
of the thousands of letters Kerouac filed away are there. None
of the
tapes, none of his personal scrapbook clippings, none of his personal
photos,
etc. etc. Excuse me if I don't spend five hours on this catalogue,
which I
already did the first time around.
Mr. Maher claims many archives are
still unavailable, and he cites
Hemingway,
Faulkner, and Thoreau. The Thoreau
archive has been available at
the
Huntington Museum since the turn of the century. I don't know the facts
on
Hemingway and Faulkner, but I there is good reason to suspect Mr. Maher
is
simply talking off the top of his head again.
I will check.
Of course Mr. Maher is hardly known
for accuracy of language. Could
he
please explain to us how somone's touch (mine) can "poison" pieces of
paper
in an archive? Or how my alleged
"touch of death" could harm the Jack
Kerouac
archive? Perhaps in his role of
impartial journalist he could
inquire
of Mr. Sampas how an archive can be killed?
Never mind that this person with the
supposed "killing touch" (me)
wrote
MEMORY BABE, known as "the best of the Kerouac biographies." That's
not
Nicosia patting himself on the back.
That's what Bruce Cook wrote in
his big
article "King of the Road" in the WASHINGTON POST BOOK WORLD,
Sunday,
August 31, 1997.
As for Mr. Chaput telling me how
warmly his Lowell Kerouac Committee
has
treated Jan Kerouac, let's look at the facts.
Never once in her
lifetime
did they invite her to Lowell, even for the dedication to the
Commemorative
(Brad Parker had to pay her way, and she still wasn't allowed
to come
up on the dais with Stella Sampas).
Last year they made no official
mention
of her. Ed Sanders TOOK IT UPON HIMSELF
to say some kind words
about
Jan, because Ed is a good man. Ed
signed the petition at NYU saying
Jan
should not have been hauled out by police to keep her from speaking at a
conference
about her own father. The best I can say
for the Lowell Kerouac
Committee
is at least they didn't cut off his hotel room, as they did to
Michael
McClure after he spoke some good words about me from their stage in
1993.
And this year, Phil? I didn't make it up to Lowell. As usual, the
man who
wrote "the best of the Kerouac biographies" (Bruce Cook, WASHINGTON
POST
BOOK WORLD) did not get an invitation.
But I did peruse your brochure,
and
every piece of literature your committee put out. I DID NOT SEE JAN
KEROUAC'S
NAME SO MUCH AS MENTIONED ANYWHERE. I
DID NOT SEE A PICTURE OF
HER, I
DID NOT SEE A MENTION OF HER BURIAL, I DID NOT SEE A QUOTE FROM HER
WORKS. I also read the two articles in the LOWELL
SUN purporting to cover
the
events of Kerouac Week. Again, I saw no
mention of a tribute to Jan.
If
indeed "a prominent Lowell committee member" actually asked that
Jan's
soul be
prayed for, I applaud him. But why
can't you mention his name? I
find
that really strange. Could he be
arrested or lose his job if word gets
out
that he prayed for Jan Kerouac?
As for John Sampas supposedly saying,
"Lord hear our prayer," it
would
have been more helpful to Jan if he hadn't tried so hard to cut off a
substantial
portion of her royalties while she was dying.
Come on, Phil, you're going to have to
do better than that to show
me your
committee has made any real effort to honor Jan Kerouac's memory.
And it was you, dear Phil, who told me
when you called me on the
phone
two years ago--do you remember?--that anyone on the Kerouac Committee
would
have to be nuts to oppose anything a Sampas wanted--you were
specifically
referring to a project Jim Sampas had proposed at a recent
committee
meeting. I can dig out my notes on our
conversation, if you need
me to
be more specific.
So why have you changed your tune?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 01:59:06 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat-l a fact only.
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19971015235338.006c8e40@pop.tiac.net>
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>"I
would like to see a Kerouac committee in Lowell, for instance, that does
>not
simply organize presentations that please Mr. Sampas. I feel it was a
>disgrace
again, at Kerouac week this year, that not a single mention was
>made
of Jan Kerouac's death, no form of tribute, either in photos, readings
>of
her work, spoken memories of her, was given--DESPITE THE FACT THAT JAN'S
>REMAINS
WERE BURIED IN NEARBY NASHUA, NEW HAMPSHIRE, ONLY FOUR MONTHS
>BEFORE,
on June 5, 1997." - Gerry Nicosia
>
>Last
year at our (LCK) main event at the Smith Baker Center Ed Sanders paid
>a
nice tribute to Jan Kerouac with John, Tony and Jim Sampas sitting in the
>audience
watching the show. Bill Gargan our list administrator was there
>and
can verify this. This year at the mass for Jack and Stella we were all
>asked
to pray for the soul of Jan Kerouac and I heard both Tony and John
>Sampas
voice distinctly say "Lord hear our prayer" along with the rest of
>the
people attending the service. It was a prominent Kerouac committee
>member
who mentioned Jan and asked the congregation to pray for her soul.
>If
you don't believe this Gerry you can call father Gallager at St. Louis
>de
France church in Lowell and ask him. Gerry you weren't there at either
>time
so you don't know what happened and you try to get the beat-l group
>against
Lowell Celebrates Kerouac committee for some personal vendetta. We
>are
a group of all volunteers with basically no money to speak of. We all
>work
very hard to put this on every year because we love Jack. Nobody gets
>paid
one red cent. Keep your argument with John and not with us and don't
>try
to drag down a group of people who work very hard every year for a good
>cause.
Our meetings are public we meet the third Thursday of the Month we
>are
accepting proposals for events next year. All members of the beat-l are
>invited
to attend. We welcome your support. To make a donation,
>or
to find out more about Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!, Inc., write:
>P.O.
Box 1111, Lowell, MA 01853.
> Phil Chaput
Mr.
Chaput,
How
wonderful that the Lowell Celebrates Kerouac Committee included Jan
Kerouac
in the memorial mass. So good too that a prominent Kerouac
committee
member publically asked people to pray for Jan Keroauc. To know
that
you personally heard Tony and John Sampas say, "Lord hear our
prayer."
is
powerful medicine. How sad that Jan's inclusion wasn't announced in
advance.
If the national media had been informed that the Memorial Mass for
Jack
Kerouac and his wife Stella was going to included his daughter Jan
Keroauc
you might have attracted a larger crowd--both here on this side,
and
possibly, in that heavenly auditorium in the great beyond--where many
of the
players are all-knowing, the women are all good looking and the kids
are
above average ?
Of
course there's always next year.
I'm
looking forward to seeing the program for '98.
j grant
Small Press Authors and Publishers display
books
FREE
at
BookZen
http://www.bookzen.com
402,900 visitors - 07-01-96 to
07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 03:38:58 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
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At
11:30 PM 10/15/97 -0400, you wrote:
> does anyone on the list have any videos
of Jack? interviews,
>etc.?
they'd be willing to copy for me, or trade for copies of whatever
>I
might have that they'd be interested in?
very interested in seeing
>Jack
on video. Is there a bootleg market for
rare Kerouac recordings?
>are
there rare Kerouac recordings in circ?
anyone with knowledge in
>this
area please offer your insight. thanks.
> also, what exactly is availble to the
public for research in the
>places
where archival stuff is stored, if any at all?
like in a new
>york
library? has that all been put on hold till the suits are resolved?
>
Hi! I
have a list on my web site of Kerouac archive material placed on
deposit
and donated to the New York Public Library by the Kerouac Estate. It
is at:
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/Kerouac Quarterly.html
Take care, Paul. . .
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 02:43:53 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or
Just a Few?
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.94.971015184825.68070D-100000@spnode03.tcs.tulane.edu>
Mime-Version:
1.0
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>>
>>
> "Gerald Nicosia's poisoned hand will never touch the Kerouac archive.
>>
> His touch is the touch of death."
>
>"Life
is suffering, it ends when you're dead."
> -AG
>
>And
we all know that Jack knew that true perfection would never be
>reached
until death. He felt so bad that he
brought a perfect soul into
>this
imperfect world that he would not accept her.
He didn't want to
>acknowledge
his own imperfections through the existence of a child.
>I'd
take that as a comment, Gerald.
>
> kind of serious kind of not,
> matt
May not
have wanted to but did. Read everything to the end. Including his
last
letter to Paul.
j grant
Small Press Authors and Publishers
display books
FREE
at
BookZen
http://www.bookzen.com
402,900 visitors - 07-01-96 to
07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 04:03:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: let's get our facts straight
Mime-Version:
1.0
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I think
some people are happier if they weren't contested at all. Am I
speaking
off the top of my head or am I recalling, somewhat distantly, a
quote
from the The American Studies Journal from August 1992 about literary
archive
availability? I guess I should really get ALL my facts straight
before
I dare say anything that may collide with the cherished views of Mr.
Nicosia.
Pardon me folks but I am not no Stone Phillips, a journalist with a
mission
to get into the real John Sampas. I simply asked, after reading a
post
here, what is the official word of the estate on this matter? He spoke
and I
relay it to you. Again, John Sampas' number, and he does not care
about
this, is 1-978-458-2708. Ask him yourself what he meant. Just don't
stone
me because I have the nerve to ask. I have no say in what goes on in
the
Sampas family. I merely maintain a web page as well as a quarterly and
conduct
my own research for my own work. That, my friend, is first and
foremost
in my world and all that I can ask for. Why though, does everything
have to
be available right now? This very minute? Why not after the turn of
the
century? Why not fifty years from now when most of us are dead. Why does
it have
to happen when YOU are alive? That is what makes no sense my friend.
You act
like it has been buried indefinitely. Is it hard to assume that a
lot of
it isn't in there right now because of this lawsuit? That is the core
of the
matter at hand, not a decision of John Sampas' of which does not rest
on his
authority alone. He is the EXECUTOR of the Sampas family's hold on
the
estate. Not the sole decision-maker. Ask Sterling Lord for that matter,
or
maybe John Lash. I know of at least six things in the works for release
to the
public. Work on the French novel is ongoing as wellas The Sea Is My
Brother.
We now know the journals are being published. More letters. I think
if the
archives aren't available, even to me and I have written a book, its
my own
tough luck. Write around them, that's all you can do. There are
several
works written, being written, and yet to be written which have been
accomplished
without the help of all the archives. That's a fact of
scholarship.
Tired now, Goodnight. Paul. . .
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 01:44:14 -0700
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Lew Welch's autumn--part one
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THE
IMPORTANCE OF AUTUMN
when
that autumnal wind
busy
with the rubbish of the year
divests
the tree of lingering ornaments
sending
them whirling with the fallen ones
when
that consumptive flush
that
culmination
pretense
fragmentation
reveals
a tree of sticks
that
cannot cage the wind
and
ducks pass black and low
in a
sky of so intense a glare
that
gulls seem gray
then
look closely
for in
this primal light
you'll
see love walking
with
the wind pressed to her thighs
you'll
see her as she dances
dancing
counter to the whirling leaves
you'll
see her dance 'til suddenly she
stops
quieting
the leaves
some
settle on her breast and hair
one
floats by - she
hits it
with her hand
and
vanishes
then on
a field of dark pine trees
burst
flocks of gulls
white
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 01:44:25 -0700
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Lew Welch's autumn--part two
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FALL
Wet
the
dead leaves stick upon the hillside
among
them
beads of a light rain
gathered
in her short-cropped hair
the lean girl walks
tweeds
befitting
her.
Break
not upon a four-foot hedge the
crisp
leaf dangling
shallowly
the river flows
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 03:54:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Ferlinghetti record?
Mime-Version:
1.0
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Donald,
Your query about the Ferlinghetti
recording made me curious as I'd
just
bought a Kenneth Rexroth recording and knew that another recording
existed
with he and Ferlinghetti. the only trace I could turn up was the
following
and it isn't clear whether he performs C"Coney Island..." on it.
Antoine
***********************
The Coney Island of Lawrence Ferlinghetti.
([Sausalito, CA]: Chris Felver,
1996).
1 videocassette 59 min. VIDEO/C 4402
Media Center; also: Bancroft (in
process)
Featuring Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Allen
Ginsberg, Gregory Corso, Anne
Waldman,
Nancy Peters, Ed Sanders, Amiri Baraka,
Michael McClure, Philip Whalen, Neeli
Cherkovski.
Amerian poet and publisher, Lawrence
Ferlinghetti, expounds upon the
role of
poets and authors of dissident literature in American
culture. Includes commentary by other
American authors of the Beat
Generation.
http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC/BeatGen.html#Coney
Island
**********************
>I
am writing this because (1) I'm not getting responses when i send queries to
>the
other address. I have been asking again
and again if anyone knows where I
>can
find the recording (to jazz
accompanyment) of Ferlinghetti reading "Coney
>Island
of the Mind." I have been unable
to find it anywhere. My e-mail
address
>is
as follows; winte030@tc.umn.edu
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"Blessed are they who can laugh at
themselves, for they shall never
cease
to be amused."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 04:35:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Last word on this matter
Mime-Version:
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In the
future, to prevent this meaningless tirade from enduring longer, I
will
only report, via web page news, what the press says. Investigative
inquiries
only arouses contempt, bitterness, and rebuttal. My interests, of
course,
is to be able to read and use as research ALL of Jack Kerouac's
works
too. Since that is not the case so be it. I have a ton of other things
to
read. I do not "make up things off the top of my head" being the
editor
of a
publication which emphasizes Jack Kerouac as its subject. This
quarterly,
which is being established as the first scholarly journal dealing
with
the man and his works is gaining steam as we speak. With help in the
future
from such people as Columbia University professor Ann Douglas, Naropa
Institute,
Michigan State U., U. of New Brunswick, and so on releases it
from
any speculation of this as being another bumpkin publication from a
rabid
fan. This is surely not a profit-making venture. Starting anew, and
not
being caught up in this drivel, I hope everybody concerned will maintain
equal
footing with issues only lawyers on the
case can understand.
Admiteedly,
I don't even know what is going on.
Paul Maher of The Kerouac
Quarterly.
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 07:22:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "IamAs I Be@aol.com"
<IamAsIBe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: jazz
OK, On
the Jazz tip......
......
since many great jazz artists are being mentioned, I just could not
let my
favourite ingenious sax players go unmentioned !!! :-)
Hank
Mobley !! ~~
Eric
Dolphy !! ~~
Cannonball
Adderley !! ~~
Sonny
Rollins !! ~~
Wayne
Shorter !! ~~
John
Coltrane !! ~~
Dexter
Gordon !! ~~
Whew, I
am getting exited !! ;-)
Thanks
guys, I appreciate you to the maximum
!! God Bless.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:26:33 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Harberd
<T.E.Harberd@UEA.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: burroughsian scholars?
Mime-Version:
1.0
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On Wed,
15 Oct 1997 20:23:36 -0400 ncary wrote:
>
From: ncary <ncary@CLARK.NET>
>
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:23:36 -0400
>
Subject: Re: burroughsian scholars?
>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
> Hi
folks,
>
>
Regarding Burrough scholars, there is a new book on Burroughs scheduled
>
for January 1998 and
>
yes in the
>
works before his death. Though I guess the author might hold it back for
>
some revising.
>
And
there's one by my Beat Gen. Seminar leader, Graham Coveney (I think that's
his
name - short term memory not too good - and it might be rude to ask him
again!)
Tom. H.
http://www.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759
"When
the going gets wierd...."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:29:25 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Harberd
<T.E.Harberd@UEA.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: burroughsian scholars?
Mime-Version:
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On Wed,
15 Oct 1997 20:07:46 UT Sherri wrote:
>
From: Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
>
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:07:46 UT
>
Subject: Re: burroughsian scholars?
>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>
Michael, thanks. funny and
imaginative. ciao, sherri
>
>
----------
>
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on
behalf of Michael R. Brown
>
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 1997
12:25 PM
>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
Subject: Re: burroughsian
scholars?
>
> On
Wed, 15 Oct 1997, PoOka(the friendly ghost) wrote:
>
>
> oh here's a horrible
thought: what if a 90s beat film was made
>
> and corporate america actually embraced such a thing? could you fathom a
>
> Kerouac "Happy-meal" or a Ginsberg action figure?
>
Kerouac
"Happy-meal": Amphetamines, a jug of wine and an orange (see Dharma
Bums)
Burroughs
"Happy-lunch": As normal, but with no container (gettit? Oh I do make
myself
laugh, ho ho ho."
Tom. H.
http://www.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759
"A
Bear of Very Little Brain"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:31:35 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sara Feustle <sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Jazz-God
In-Reply-To:
<971015223718_862303831@emout09.mail.aol.com>
MIME-version:
1.0
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The
true jazz-god, and the living Jack Kerouac is an amazingly cool guy
named
Bill Heid from Detroit. Anybody else know who I'm talking about? He
holds
like 7 world records for hitch-hiking, and is THE jazz organist
right
now, and probably forever!
On Thu,
16 Oct 1997, IamAs I Be@aol.com wrote:
>
OK, On the Jazz tip......
>
...... since many great jazz artists are being mentioned, I just could not
>
let my favourite ingenious sax players go unmentioned !!! :-)
>
>
Hank Mobley !! ~~
>
Eric Dolphy !! ~~
>
Cannonball Adderley !! ~~
>
Sonny Rollins !! ~~
>
Wayne Shorter !! ~~
>
John Coltrane !! ~~
>
Dexter Gordon !! ~~
>
>
Whew, I am getting exited !! ;-)
>
>
Thanks guys, I appreciate you to the
maximum !! God Bless.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:51:31 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: let's get our facts straight
In-Reply-To:
<199710160553.WAA15886@italy.it.earthlink.net>
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> And it was you, dear Phil, who told me
when you called me on the
>phone
two years ago--do you remember?--that anyone on the Kerouac Committee
>would
have to be nuts to oppose anything a Sampas wanted--you were
>specifically
referring to a project Jim Sampas had proposed at a recent
>committee
meeting. I can dig out my notes on our
conversation, if you need
>me
to be more specific.
> So why have you changed your tune?
>
>Are
you for real. I never talked to you about anything except what was
going
on with the archive at U-Mass Lowell because I was concerned about
it. I
wanted to hear both sides of the story. You did 99% of the talking.
How
could you possibly come up with something like this? You are a very
desperate
man to resort to the likes of this. All I can say folks is WOW!
WOW!
WOW! what hogwash. I don't need notes. I know exactly what I said to
you and
I never ever said anything like that. So again you are bull
shitting
the folks on the beat-l like when you said that the Sampas family
hadn't
put any archives in the library. Like you said Jan was never
mentioned
either last year or this year. Now you say that it was Ed Sanders
doing
it on his own. Well Gerry which is it? Tell the beat-l members which
facts
they should believe. Keep your fight with John and leave LCK out of
this
quagmire.
I don't
represent John or the LCK committee I only represent myself.
I can
see this is going nowhere as usual and nobody wants to hear this crap
so lets
just end the whole thread. By the way it was Roger Brunelle vice
president
of LCK who asked the congregation to pray for Jan. I am sure you
will
have something bad to say about him. Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:20:40 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: "I" "saw"
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Thanks
to all for your patience with me in my rather slow pondering
pathway
through Howl. I'm becoming more
enamored with the poem
everyday.
The
focus since i stepped back to the "I" and the "I saw" has
given me
insights
(via y'alls posts) not only into the poem - but into Allen
Ginsberg
and even the possible connections between literature in general
and
beat generation literature.
Yesterday
morning, i decided to examine my little pocket poet series
booklet
one more time in light of the "I" "Saw" notion one more
time
before
moving on in the poem. I think that the
"I" in "HOWL" seems to
contain
the private persona of Allen at that point in his life, and
seems
to be an "I" he is able to come back to later in his life as his
"self"
had changed. I can even see the notion
of the "I" re-presenting
a far
larger notion of "Be-ing" as Diane Carter has suggested.
My
experiment that perhaps y'all can help me with (given more materials
available
and more experience with studying this poem and AG in general)
was to
examine the "I's" in HOWL -- in the poem Howl for Carl Solomon
and the
other poems in the Pocket edition which seemed to possibly
reflect
the realm of "I" in Allen's mind at this point in his life. I
had
little notion as to where it would lead, surprisingly, few if any
"I's"
that i found elsewhere in the pocket edition seemed to suggest
such a
universal all-encompassing "I" as the "I" which begins Howl
for
Carl
Solomon. Reflecting on the connection
between the "I's" and the
actions
taken by the "I's", it seems that the type of seeing that Allen
"saw"
at the beginning of Howl for Carl Solomon is also very very
broad. It is clearly more than the notion of
"saw" that i employed when
seeing
Time magazine at the local filling station -- and probably even a
broader
"saw" than the "saw" suggested in "Supermarket"
which itself
reflects
some sort of imaginative and visionary notion.
It
seems easy to see how the "I" and the "I saw" at the
opening of Howl
for Car
Solomon is supposed to pull me or any reader within it into some
sort of
royal (or perhaps anti-royal) "I" and a communal vision of "I
saw". Again in most of the other examples of uses
of "I" it seems easy,
as the
reader, to remain outside the "I" and merely observe Ginsberg's
perspective. But in Howl for Carl Solomon the
"I" seems to encompass
the
"me" of any reader who takes the words seriously.
Any
insights from folks with more information on Howl for Carl Solomon,
with
journals and letters from Allen in this period, or biographical
information
which could add insights (if there is insight to begin with
in this
post) would be appreciated.
What
follows is the scratches i have on several index cards on my coffee
table:
Howl
and Other Poems
Howl
for Carl Solomon
"I
saw..." p.9
"to
find out if I had a vision" p.14
"you
are not safe I am not safe" p.16
"Moloch
in whom I sit lonely!" p.17
"Moloch
in whom I dream Angels!" p.17
"Moloch
in whom I am a consciousness without a body!" p.17
"Moloch
whom I abandon!" p.17
"I'm
with you in Rockland" (many times) pp. 19-20
"you're
madder than I am" p.19
A
Supermarket in California
"thoughts
I have" p.23
"for
I walked" p.23
"I
went into" p.23
"I
saw you" p.23
"I
heard you" p.23
"I
wandered in and out" p.23
"(I
touch your book..." p.23
Transcription
of Organ Music
"because
I used it before" p.25
"I
began to feel" p.25
"that's
why I want to sing" p.25
"I
expected the presence" p.25
"I
saw my gray painted walls and ceiling" p.25
"I
opened my door" p.25
"Can
I bring back the words?" p.25
"waiting
in space where I placed them,..." p.25
"I
had a moment of clarity" p.26
"I
watered faithfully" p.26
"how
much I loved them" p.26
"I
am so lonely in my glory" p.26
"--I
looked up --" p.26
"...where
I left it, since I left it open..." p.26
"I
wish to enter the kitchen" p.26
"I
remember when I first got laid" p.26
"I
sat on the docks of Provincetown" p.26
"if
I wished to enter" p.26
"if
i ever need them" p.27
"I
haven't the money" p.27
"I
want people to bow" p.27
Sunflower
Sutra
"I
walked on the banks..." p.28
"--I
rushed up enchanted--" p.28
"O
my soul I loved you then" p.29
"what
more could I name" p.29
"So
I grabbed" p.30
America
"America
I've given you all and now I am nothing" p.31
"I
can't stand my own mind" p.31
"I
don't feel good" p.31
"I
won't write my poem till I'm in my right mind" p.31
"I'm
sick of your insane demands" p.31
"When
can I go into" p.31
"and
buy what I need" p.31
"it
is you and I" p.31
"I
don't think he'll come back" p.31
"I'm
trying to come to the point" p.31
"I
refuse to give up" p.31
"I
know what I'm doing" p.31
"I
haven't read the newspapers" p.31
"America
I feel sentimental" p.31
"America
I used to be" p.31
"when
I was a kid" p.31
"I'm
not sorry" p.31
"I
smoke marijuana" p.32
"every
chance I get" p.32
"I
sit in my house" p.32
"when
I go" p.32
"I
get drunk" p.32
"I'm
perfectly right" p.32
"I
won't say" p.32
"I
have mystical visions" p.32
"America
I still haven't told you" p.32
"I'm
addressing you" p.32
"I'm
obsessed" p.32
"I
read it" p.32
"I
slink past" p.32
"I
read it" p.32
"I
am America" p.32
"I
am talking" p.32
"I
haven't got" p.32
"I'd
better consider" p.32
"I'd
better consider" p.32
"I
say nothing about" p.32
"I
have abolished" p.33
"how
can I write" p.33
"I
will continue" p.33
"America
I will sell" p.33
"America
I am the Scottboro boys" p.33
American
when I was seven" p.33
"made
me cry I once saw" p.33
"the
impression I got" p.34
"I'd
better get" p.34
"I
don't want to join" p.34
"I'm
nearsighted" p.34
"America
I'm putting" p.34
In the
Baggage Room at Greyhound
"I
realized" p.35
"I
realized" p.36
"I
saw naked" p.37
"before
I quit" p.37
"I
am a communist" p.37
"where
I suffered so much" p.37
Song
"I
wanted" p.41
"I
always wanted" p.41
"I
always wanted" p.41
"where
I was born" p.41
In back
of the real
"I
wandered desolate" p.44
"I
thought" p.44
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:49:19 EDT
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Estate Battle
Gerry,
Phil, and Paul: It's clear you don't
agree on the issues
discussed
in your last several posts to Beat-l.
The points of your
disagreements
have been thoroughly aired on Beat-l already.
I think
that
any further arguments you wish to make with one another should be
done
off the list. Having the list members
as audience can only lead
to
inflamed rhetoric and injured feeling on all sides, something none of
us
wants.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:52:20 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "Donald E. Winters"
<winte030@TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ferlinghetti record?
Mime-Version:
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Antoine:
Thank you very much. Donald
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:57:42 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997101609531449@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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At
09:49 AM 10/16/97 EDT, you wrote:
>Gerry,
Phil, and Paul: It's clear you don't
agree on the issues
>discussed
in your last several posts to Beat-l.
The points of your
>disagreements
have been thoroughly aired on Beat-l already.
I think
>that
any further arguments you wish to make with one another should be
>done
off the list. Having the list members
as audience can only lead
>to
inflamed rhetoric and injured feeling on all sides, something none of
>us
wants.
>
> I
agree Bill I am all done talking to Gerry about this. Just remember who
made
the first post and accusation this time. Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:16:30 -0500
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From: "Donald E. Winters"
<winte030@TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Corso
Mime-Version:
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Many
thanks to Antoine for his response. I'm
still looking, however, for the
record
of Ferlinghetti's wonderful reading of "Coney Island of the Mind"
with a
jazz
accompaniment. It's out of print but I
thought somebody might want to sell
or
trade (for maybe a Dylan bootlet, etc.).
I would also like to know if anyone
knows
what has become of Gregory Corso. I
have fond memories of teaching
English
in Shrewsbury, Mass. and coaching a speech student on his "dramatic
interp."
of "Marrage" for a state speech tournament (a quite censored version
of
the
poem I'm afraid). He won. As a writer and teacher of poetry, I have
always
been
fond of Corso and felt that his work
was undervalued. Besides
"Marriage,"
I
particularly enjoyed "Army" and "Two Poets Hitchkiking on the
Highway." I
always
enjoyed his hilarious use of absurdist, dadaist imagery. --Donald (my
e-mail
# is: winte030@tc.umn.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:02:12 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: "I" "saw"
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>
RACE wrote:
>
> It
seems easy to see how the "I" and the "I saw" at the
opening of Howl
>
for Car Solomon is supposed to pull me or any reader within it into
>
some
>
sort of royal (or perhaps anti-royal) "I" and a communal vision of
"I
>
saw". Again in most of the other
examples of uses of "I" it seems >
>
easy,
> as
the reader, to remain outside the "I" and merely observe Ginsberg's
>
perspective. But in Howl for Carl
Solomon the "I" seems to encompass
>
the "me" of any reader who takes the words seriously.
>
>
Any insights from folks with more information on Howl for Carl Solomon,
>
with journals and letters from Allen in this period, or biographical
>
information which could add insights (if there is insight to begin with
> in
this post) would be appreciated.
Pulling
out all of the I's like that really does give a wonderful
perspective
on how Ginsberg's writing reflects this movement to the
personal
I as important in where he took poetry to a new level. You
quote
from Transcription of Organ Music which I think is my favorite
poem. I was recently suprised to find that while
Transcription is in the
Collect
Poems 1947-80, it is not in the Selected Poems, 1947-1995.
In
addition to your request for postings from biographical material,
letters,
etc., I was hoping someone with a copy of the annotated Howl
could
post what kind of changes Ginsberg made to the beginning few
stanzas
in writing it. What did he cross out,
write in the margins
about,
etc.?
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 07:54:48 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: burroughsian scholars?
MIME-Version:
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Sounds
like the elves back, almost.
Remember
the Beat Xmas (or was it Thanksgiving) dinners last year?
js
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:30:05 -0600
Reply-To: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: leon! pls contact marie
Mime-Version:
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(sorry
for the wasted bandwidth)
leon.
could
you pls drop marie a note. she would like to hear from you - if you
can
write before friday her address is noank@aol.com, if you write after
friday
she can be reached at her usual email address (country@sover.net)
thanks
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:23:57 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Levi Asher
<brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Corso
In-Reply-To: <344621be31a9717@mhub1.tc.umn.edu>
from "Donald E. Winters" at
Oct 16, 97 09:16:30 am
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> or
trade (for maybe a Dylan bootlet, etc.).
I would also like to know if
anyone
>
knows what has become of Gregory Corso.
I have fond memories of teaching
>
English in Shrewsbury, Mass. and coaching a speech student on his
"dramatic
>
interp." of "Marrage" for a state speech tournament (a quite
censored version
of
>
the poem I'm afraid). He won. As a writer and teacher of poetry, I have
always
>
been fond of Corso and felt that his
work was undervalued. Besides
"Marriage,"
Me too
-- it took me a few years to start catching Corso's charm and his
sense
of humor, but at this point I like his stuff as much as anybody's.
As for
his whereabouts, he's still hanging around not too far from
NY City
-- a friend of mine just had dinner with him in the Village
a
couple of weeks ago. I believe he lives
somewhere upstate but
I'm not
sure. Still writes, still shows up at
Beat tribute
events
if sufficiently tempted.
------------------------------------------------------
| Levi
Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
|
|
|
| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (the beat literature web site) |
|
|
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
|
|
|
*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---* |
|
|
| Mister, I ain't a boy, no I'm a man |
------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 18:55:11 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Like Old Days in the Park--Is It
Real or is it Retro?
In-Reply-To: <3441B9BB.45ED@sunflower.com>
Mime-Version:
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At
01.03 13/10/97 -0500, Patricia Elliott wrote:
>shooting
with the men 1985
> by patricia elliott
>
>The
tall thin man
>leaps
to a crouch
>opening
fire on his own heart.
>
>i
watched morgan stand stiff, posed,
>ignoring
me, for who was she
>but
some ol sow eyed gal.
>I
am the ghost, the one that suvived.
>
>trying
to smell the hidden secrets
>in
the face of the horrid honest man.
>ted
was green with fear
> if
this was a writer,
>
>the
tall slim eye once again
>baring
the tattered muscle,
>He
led me once and then again up to the gun.
>Both
of us getting past past.
>I
shot fast,
>He
took my hand ,
>he
sang,
>he
wept and gave me tears.
>
>we
walked home through the dark.
>
>
the
patricia's poem remind me
a Jack
Kerouac televised in 1969,
during
his italian tour to celebrate the 500th
series
of novels of La Medusa with the book
"Big
Sur" (translated in italian), the trip
was bad
and Jack Kerouac wished "tell me off"
and at
the end "of course not, but why don't
you
shoot me?"
saluti
a tutti,
rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 18:54:32 +0100
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Van Morrison.
In-Reply-To: <3437C1E6.779@midusa.net>
Mime-Version:
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Alan
Watts Blues by Van
Morrison
Well
I'm taking some time with my quiet friend
Well
I'm takin' some time on my own.
Well
I'm makin' some plans for my getaway
There'll
be blue skies shining up above
When
I'm cloud hidden
Cloud
hidden
Whereabouts
unknown
Well
I've got to get out of the rat-race now
I'm
tired of the ways of mice and men
And the
empires all turning into rust again.
Out of
everything nothing remains the same
That's
why I'm cloud hidden
Cloud
hidden
Whereabouts
unknown
Bridge
Sittin'
up on the mountain-top in my solitude
Where
the morning fog comes rollin' in
Just
might do me some good.
Well
I'm waiting in the clearing with my motor on
Well
it's time to get back to the town again
Where
the air is sweet and fresh in the countryside
Well it
won't be long before I get back here again.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:02:00 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: John J Dorfner
<Jjdorfner@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or
Just a Few?
more
talk...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:30:02 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John J Dorfner
<Jjdorfner@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: let's get our facts straight
i love
this...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:25:47 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: Estate Battle
MIME-Version:
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BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU,.Internet
writes:
>Gerry,
Phil, and Paul: It's clear you don't
agree on the issues
>discussed
in your last several posts to Beat-l.
The points of your
>disagreements
have been thoroughly aired on Beat-l already.
I think
>that
any further arguments you wish to make with one another should be
>done
off the list. Having the list members
as audience can only lead
>to
inflamed rhetoric and injured feeling on all sides, something none of
>us
wants.
let's also be careful not to force
ourselves to stick this in the
closet
either.. it's extremely important. i'm
quite sure that gerry
phil
paul are capable of being civil. I see
ev everyone's anger, it's
incredibly
easy to get ripped about something like this, because there
are so
many assenine components to it, even
the arguments that go on
here. this name calling, and all these you said i
saids are a waste of
time,
for crying out loud.... i don't think anyone is out to kill the
Kerouac
legacy, we're all interested in saving what we can of what's
out
there, but we're not going to get anywhere with insignificant
bickering. I'm rolling on the floor laughing to tears
at this pathetic
hurricane
when i think of jack's genius and love; where'd the meaning
get
lost?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:33:04 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: Estate Battle
MIME-Version:
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>>
I agree Bill I am all done talking to Gerry about this. Just remember
>who
>made
the first post and accusation this time. Phil
what the hell? am i going to have to separate you kids? send you
to your
room to think about what you've done?
have any of you
progressed
mentally since the age of five?
"he started it." Yeah,
and
YOU
responded equivalently.
by the way, this is not an attack, just a
lighthearted editorial
comment,
i'm laughing my ass off right now...
happy trails...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:44:15 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Van Morrison.
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19971016185432.00731634@pop.gpnet.it>
MIME-Version:
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>
Alan Watts Blues by Van
Morrison
What
album is this from? I'm a big fan but
don't recognize this one. Of
course
he's got a song list that would stretch the length of Italy so I'm
not
surprised.
------------------
Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:46:50 UT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
"In
the jungle, the quiet jungle..."
well,
kids, i think it's about time we read
some poetry together. how bout
di
Prima - would be good to discuss some Beat women's contributions for a
change.
Corso, Welch, Snyder, McClure also come to mind....
any
takers?
ciao,
sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:42:03 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: "I" "saw"
>Thanks
to all for your patience with me in my rather slow pondering
>pathway
through Howl. I'm becoming more
enamored with the poem
>everyday.
I
haven't had to call on any reserves of patience yet to finish reading your
posts.
I have been holding back from expressing how grateful I am for the
brilliant
glimpses of your soul, heart and mind that you are sharing with
us.You
have been saying nice things about my posts, and I don't want to
sound
like I am reciprocating.
Sometimes
I feel that we are all straining our flashlights in the forbidding
darkness
of our world full of shadows. We are attracted to the searching
lights
that flicker on our screens, recognition of fellow wondering
(wandering)
searchers for clues to our lives.
Here is
a scenario for a movie. Or is it
choreography for a dance? a score
for
music? all of these? life maybe? Illuminated flashes of clues, looking
here,
looking there, looking for this, looking for that, holding up our
finds,
and what can we make of that clue left on the screens of our
imaginations,
how do we fit the new surprises (If we are lucky. Without them
we are
dead. Dead may be just fine in its time, it's bad to be dead while
alive.)
into the new visions of eternities that we construct for here and
now.
It is
these kinds of wonders that you always bring to me through this list.
You
stumbled onto something when you
iluminated the shadowy ever present
hesitantingly
acknowledged lurking "I" in the life of our communications to
one
another. What's hiding beneath this dead leaf, that bloom on the tree
that is
me that is rooted in the dirt and reaches for the sun. What better
place
to search for it than in the writings of the beats. Even if it was not
they
who invented the games of life all be their
collective "I"selves.
BTW you
asked me some questions the other day about what was I doing at 72
not
trying to play dead? Was that partly what you were kidding me about? If
you
were inquiring about my health, I am very pleased to report that my
(our)
lifestyle, while having presented challenges and difficulties that
seem too
much to handle, nevertheless seemed to not have caused wear and
tear
that is customarily expected at today's prevailing rate of aging. I
know
that worry, stress or drugs, are not the cause of grey hair, myths to
the
conrary not withstanding. That post I got in an out of town post office
and I
was on a high roll for two days, it's not here in my records. If there
were
other things I left out, please backchannell me the questions.
That
gathering in the Golden Gate park was an inspiration.
leon
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 12:56:42 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "Donald E. Winters"
<winte030@TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: estate battle
Mime-Version:
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I agree
with what seems to be the majorityh
opinion on this squabble. It sucks
and I
wish you would continue it between each other instead of through the
BEAT-L
channel. There is an important
difference between the childish and the
childlike. We need more of the CHILDLIKE and a hell of
a lot less of the
CHILDISH!!
-Donald
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:02:45 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle
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Why is
it that nothing Nicosia, Maher, or Chaput say or do in this
matter
remind me in any way of anything remotely related to the
qualities
I associate with Jack Kerouac? How far
the apples have fallen
from
the tree. Reminds me of a nice
corporate takeover battle more than
anything
else, or an especially ugly divorce.
js
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:57:30 -0600
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From: Sean Young <syoung@DSW.COM>
Subject: Dear Landlord
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With all this estate controversy, it sort
of reminded me of a great
Dylan song. Especially the last verse.
Here it is for you all.
Peace be upon you.
Sean D. Young
--------------------------------------------------------------------
DEAR LANDLORD
(Words and Music by Bob
Dylan)
1968, 1985 Dwarf Music
Dear landlord,
Please don't put a price
on my soul.
My burden is heavy,
My dreams are beyond
control.
When that steamboat
whistle blows,
I'm gonna give you all I
got to give,
And I do hope you receive
it well,
Dependin' on the way you
feel that you live.
Dear landlord,
Please heed these words that I speak.
I know you've suffered
much,
But in this you are not so
unique.
All of us, at times, we
might work too hard
To have it too fast and
too much,
And anyone can fill his
life up
With things he can see but
he just cannot touch.
Dear landlord,
Please don't dismiss my
case.
I'm not about to argue,
I'm not about to move to
no other place.
Now, each of us has his
own special gift
And you know this was
meant to be true,
And if you don't
underestimate me,
I won't underestimate you.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:07:18 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Poetic Women
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On
Sherri'shread of women Beat poets--is anyone familiar with the
inprint
status of Joanne Kyger and Lenore Kandel--especially Kyger who
is a
wonderful poet.
James
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:02:33 -0500
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From: "Donald E. Winters"
<winte030@TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: women beats
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But
those names you mentioned are men?
What's your point? I thought you wanted
more
discussion on women writers?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:13:19 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle--Make Good Wills Guys
and Gals
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The
productive outcome of this exchange would be to remind all you
writers
out there to plan ahead for the care of your artistic children
as you
would for the guardianship of your children.
Choose
a good literary executor, and keep literary decisions out of the
hands
of your conniving relatives and spouses!
Lew Welch (another
drinker)
had the advantage of knowing that he was dissapearing--but all
his
stuff is nicely housed at UC San Diego having been well taken care
of by
Don Allen. How nice it would have been
if Jack had possesed this
foresight.
James
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 14:13:10 -0400
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From: "Jon B. Pearlstone"
<THYE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Van Morrison.
Alex:
As I
have mentioned in prior e-mails--I am close friends with Alan Watts'
eldest
son, Mark. I just called him and he
told me you will find the song
about
his Dad on the Album:
Poetic
Champions Compose
According
to Mark, Van was a big Alan Watts fan and close friend and spent a
good
deal of time with him at his retreat on Mount Tamalpais.
Mark
also invited anyone with an interest in Alan Watts' spoken word or
writings
to e-mail him at:
watts@alanwatts.com
or visit his web site at alanwatts.com and he will be
happy
to answer any other questions you may have.
Hope
this helps.
Have a
great day!
Jon
Pearlstone
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:13:28 -0500
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From: "Donald E. Winters"
<winte030@TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dear Landlord
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To Dean
Young: As an insanely enthusiastic Dylan fan I'm endlessly amazed at how
Dylan's
songs, "Dear Landlord," for example, seem to have an uncanny
connection
with
whatever issue is being discussed.
Thanks for your insightful connection
between
the raging Kerouac legacy battle and that wonderful Dylan song. Donald
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:20:30 -0800
Reply-To: jmaynard@csubak.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: John Arthur Maynard
<John_Maynard@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU>
Subject: Re: Corso
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Levi
Asher wrote:
>
> or trade (for maybe a Dylan bootlet, etc.). I would also like to know if
> anyone
>
> knows what has become of Gregory Corso.
I have fond memories of teaching
>
> English in Shrewsbury, Mass. and coaching a speech student on his
"dramatic
>
> interp." of "Marrage" for a state speech tournament (a
quite censored
version
> of
>
> the poem I'm afraid). He won. As a writer and teacher of poetry, I have
> always
>
> been fond of Corso and felt that
his work was undervalued. Besides
> "Marriage,"
>
> Me
too -- it took me a few years to start catching Corso's charm and his
>
sense of humor, but at this point I like his stuff as much as anybody's.
>
> As
for his whereabouts, he's still hanging around not too far from
> NY
City -- a friend of mine just had dinner with him in the Village
> a
couple of weeks ago. I believe he lives
somewhere upstate but
>
I'm not sure. Still writes, still shows
up at Beat tribute
>
events if sufficiently tempted.
I've
been thinking this completely idle and irrelevant thought for years, and I
guess
now's the time to say it:
Has
anybody ever noticed that Gregory Corso's practically a ringer for Pete
Rose?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 14:17:32 -0400
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From: Michael Czarnecki
<peent@SERVTECH.COM>
Subject: Re: Van Morrison.
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>>
Alan Watts Blues by Van
Morrison
>
>What
album is this from? I'm a big fan but
don't recognize this one. Of
>course
he's got a song list that would stretch the length of Italy so I'm
>not
surprised.
>
>------------------
>Alex
Howard
Poetic
Champions Compose. 1987.
Van
refers quite often to beat references.
In
"Cleaning Windows" from Beautiful Vision, 1982
"I
went home and read my Christmas Humpheries book on Zen.
Curiosity
killed the cat,
Kerouac's
Dharma Bums and On the Road.
What's
my line, I'm happy cleaning windows."
Also,
in "On Hyndford Street" from the double release HYmns To the Silence
"And
reading Mr. Jellyroll
and Big
Bill Broonzy
and"Realy
the Blues by Mezz Mezzrow
and
Dharma Bums by Jack Kerouac
over
and over again."
I'm
sure there's other songs with beat references but these are the first
ones
that come to mind.
I've
always seen Van as one of the real artists in the pop music field,
doing
what he wants to do as an artist and not worrying about record sales
and
pleasing the public very much.
Michael
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 18:36:46 UT
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Poetic Women
James-
if i'm
not mistaken City Lights is carrying a book or two of Kyger's. i know
i saw
it somewhere and think it was there...
sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
James Stauffer
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 1997 11:07 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: Poetic Women
On
Sherri'shread of women Beat poets--is anyone familiar with the
inprint
status of Joanne Kyger and Lenore Kandel--especially Kyger who
is a
wonderful poet.
James
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 14:41:33 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Michael Czarnecki
<peent@SERVTECH.COM>
Subject: Re: Jazz-God
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Sara
Feustle wrote:
>The
true jazz-god, and the living Jack Kerouac is an amazingly cool guy
>named
Bill Heid from Detroit. Anybody else know who I'm talking about? He
>holds
like 7 world records for hitch-hiking, and is THE jazz organist
>right
now, and probably forever!
What
does it mean that he holds 7 world records for hitchhiking?
Michael
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:59:41 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle
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Tyson
Ouellette wrote:
> let's also be careful not to force
ourselves to stick this in the
>
closet either.. it's extremely important.
i'm quite sure that gerry
>
phil paul are capable of being civil.
no i
don't think they are, i think if they want to discuss this dead
hand
stuff they should do it off list.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 12:38:47 -0700
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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Coffee House In The LA Times
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I
opened the rag this morn and saw our friend Levi's Coffee House Writings
reviews
along with a bunch of other so-called post modern books.
Here is
the Coffee hous part with the whole dog under it
________
In a strange twist of media,
"Coffeehouse: Writings From the
Web" (Manning
Publications, 316 pages, $24.95)
promises
to bring
the best of a
flourishing literary underground (heretofore
unrestrained by the
demands of publishers and
publishing)
to the
masses. Edited by Levi
Asher and Christian Crumlish, this
paperback also features
illustrations by Carl
Steadman,
co-founder
of the legendary online
magazine Suck.
______________________________________
Thursday,
October 16, 1997
BOOKSHELF / POP CULTURE
Postmodernism a Preamble to the
2000s
By D. JAMES ROMERO, Times Staff
Writer
PREV STORY
NEXT STORY
As the turn of the
century looms with hope and
tension,
the
word
"postmodern" has become de rigueur, a catch-all
phrase for the
future-leaning literature, philosophies
and
subcultures
that we hope will take
us into the 2000s.
But few seem to
know what the term actually means.
"Postmodern
American Fiction: A Norton Anthology" (W. W.
Norton, 672 pages,
$24.95) helps by presenting such
writers
as
Thomas Pynchon, William
S. Burroughs, Kurt Vonnegut,
Norman
Mailer, Mark Leyner,
Joyce Carol Oates, William
Gibson,
Douglas
Coupland, Umberto Eco
and Jean Baudrillard, among others.
The anthology's
well thought-out introduction
gives
an excellent
definition of
postmodernism: It is the melting of
fiction
and
journalism, of high
culture and low culture, of
traditional
narrative
and nonlinear,
nontraditional storytelling.
Postmodernism
is a
fascination with the
future, technology, image and our
ability
to
communicate and feel.
Edited by Paula
Geyh, Fred G. Leebron and Andrew
Levy,
this
paperback tome is not a
comprehensive guide to postwar
writing,
but it is a fitting introduction. Readers will find
Pynchon's
"The
Crying of Lot 49,"
Oates' "The Turn of the Screw" and
Eco's
"Postmodernism,
Irony, the Enjoyable." The book comes
with a
password for a Web site featuring new postmodern
works of
"hypertext
fiction."
In a strange twist
of media, "Coffeehouse:
Writings
From the
Web" (Manning
Publications, 316 pages, $24.95)
promises
to bring
the best of a
flourishing literary underground (heretofore
unrestrained by the
demands of publishers and
publishing)
to the
masses. Edited by Levi
Asher and Christian Crumlish, this
paperback also features
illustrations by Carl
Steadman,
co-founder
of the legendary online
magazine Suck.
But the hot spot
for popular literature isn't
cyberspace.
It's
Scotland, where Irvine
Welsh ("Trainspotting,"
"Marabou
Stork
Nightmares") has
sparked a new generation of writers
that
trains its
collective pen on the
local downtrodden. "Acid Plaid:
New
Scottish
Writing" (Arcade
Publishing, 256 pages, $13.95)
anthologizes
this
phenomenon of '90s
Scottish "grit-lit"--the work of
the new
Scottish
beats. Included is a new
short story from Welsh ("A
Fault
on the
Line") and works
from other notables, including Gordon
Legge,
Alan Warner and Duncan
McLean. The book, introduced in
paperback, is edited by
Harry Ritchie.
In "Fugitive
Cultures: Race Violence & Youth"
(Routledge,
247
pages, $16.95),
education professor Henry A. Giroux
examines
the
effects of popular
culture on America's children. The
mix, he
reports, isn't always
good, from the Disney-fication
of
young
children to the
hyper-real violence that surrounds
teens
on movie
screens. But Giroux
saves his most venomous criticism
for the
news
media, record companies
that produce gangsta rap and
such
"public
intellectuals" as
Rush Limbaugh--who he says are
behind
the "racial
coding" of violence
in America, i.e. the portrayal of
violence
as an
African American
problem. The book, now in paperback,
sometimes is coded in
sociology speak, but its
conclusions
are
valuable to parents
concerned about the cultural sea
in
which their
children swim.
Among the flotsam
they might find is "Generation
X:
Field Guide
and Lexicon" (Orion
Media, 200 pgs, $9.95) by Vann
Wesson,
a
baby boomer from San
Diego who wrote the book with the
assistance of several
younger writers. The book is a
dire
collection
of anecdotes roughly
defining America's 13th
generation,
as well as
a guide to youth slang.
Many of the entries, however,
are
woefully
inaccurate ("Techno
House Music--A combination of
techno
and
house music." There
is no such genre). Marketers have
reduced
the
price of the book and
now are pushing it in the humor
category--"Guaranteed to make you laugh." Indeed.
From generation
ecstasy comes "Tihkal: The
Continuation"
(Transform Press, 804
pages, $24.50) by Alexander & Ann
Shulgin, retired
cosmonauts of psychedelia. The two
probably
have
tried every psychedelic
drug known to humankind, many
of
which
were invented by chemist
Alexander "Sasha" Shulgin
himself
(he is
often called the
godfather of ecstasy).
"Tihkal"
is the culmination of their love and
work
regarding these
drugs. Like its
predecessor, "Pihkal," the book starts
with
the
narrative of the
couple's research with drugs, while
the
second half
features the scientific
data. Tihkal's focus is on
tryptamines;
taken
together, both books
cover the entirety of psychedelic
compounds.
The conclusion of
this aging couple is that these
substances
can
be very useful for the
evolution of the mind. The Shulgins
acknowledge the dangers,
however, and don't recommend that
users get in over their
heads.
* D. James Romero
reviews books about pop culture
every
four
weeks. Next week: a look
at the current magazines.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 14:45:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Like Old Days in the Park--Is It
Real or is it Retro?
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Patricia
Elliott wrote:
this
was a scrap of a poem from my journal, which is a pile of paper
laying
in a drawer, occassionally i add a page or note to it.
it is
from a day that i went out to freds with william and ted morgan.
I
thought ted was a spook. on the scrap, the verses were seperated.
shooting
with the men 1985 by patricia elliott
The
tall thin man
leaps
to a crouch
opening
fire on his own heart.
the
tall slim eye once again
baring
the tattered muscle,
He led
me once and then again up to the gun.
Both of
us getting past past.
I shot
fast, He took my hand ,
he
sang, he wept and gave me tears.
we
walked home through the dark.
i
watched morgan stand stiff, posed,
ignoring
me, for who was she
but
some ol sow eyed gal.
I am
the ghost, the one that suvived.
trying
to smell the hidden secrets
in the
face of the horrid honest man.
ted was
green with fear
if this was a writer.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 18:30:49 UT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: women beats
di
Prima is a FEMALE first name Diane....
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Donald E. Winters
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 1997 11:02 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: women beats
But
those names you mentioned are men?
What's your point? I thought you
wanted
more
discussion on women writers?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:53:05 UT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Like Old Days in the Park--Is It
Real or is it Retro?
Patricia
- this is wonderful. do you have more
of this?
and who
is Ted Morgan (ignorant, here)?
ciao,
sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Patricia Elliott
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 1997 12:45 PM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: Like Old Days in the Park--Is It
Real or is it Retro?
Patricia
Elliott wrote:
this
was a scrap of a poem from my journal, which is a pile of paper
laying
in a drawer, occassionally i add a page or note to it.
it is
from a day that i went out to freds with william and ted morgan.
I
thought ted was a spook. on the scrap, the verses were seperated.
shooting
with the men 1985 by patricia elliott
The
tall thin man
leaps
to a crouch
opening
fire on his own heart.
the
tall slim eye once again
baring
the tattered muscle,
He led
me once and then again up to the gun.
Both of
us getting past past.
I shot
fast, He took my hand ,
he
sang, he wept and gave me tears.
we
walked home through the dark.
i
watched morgan stand stiff, posed,
ignoring
me, for who was she
but
some ol sow eyed gal.
I am
the ghost, the one that suvived.
trying
to smell the hidden secrets
in the
face of the horrid honest man.
ted was
green with fear
if this was a writer.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 16:59:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mitchell Smith
<Praetor77@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Corso and Ferlinghetti
I have
searched the biliographies and can find no mention of a Ferlinghetti
reading
of "coney island" poems to jazz OTHER THAN the "Readings in the
Cellar"
record by Ferlinghetti and Rexroth. There are other Ferlinghetti
records
that do not fit that description: "Tentative Dinner..." (no jazz,
later
poems), Assassination Raga (some music, no jazz, later poems),
"Starting
From San Fran" (no music, poems from that title). If anyone can
verify
Mr. Winters search object, I'm very interested as well.
mjs
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:27:10 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Jazz-God
In-Reply-To: <v01530500b06bd87f8e5d@[204.181.15.86]>
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On Thu,
16 Oct 1997, Michael Czarnecki wrote:
>
Sara Feustle wrote:
>
>The true jazz-god, and the living Jack Kerouac is an amazingly cool guy
>
>named Bill Heid from Detroit. Anybody else know who I'm talking about? He
>
>holds like 7 world records for hitch-hiking, and is THE jazz organist
>
>right now, and probably forever!
>
>
What does it mean that he holds 7 world records for hitchhiking?
>
>
Michael
It means he is actually in the
Guinness book of World records 6 or
7 times
for the longest distance hitch-hiked. I
have the records around
here
somewhere, but am too lazy to go get them right now.:) I'll post them
later.
Anybody else on here know the guy? His music is the embodyment of
bop,
and his life and lifestyle is the epitome of beat.
--Sara
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:19:22 -0400
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From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject:
Re: Estate Battle
Comments:
To: stauffer@pacbell.net
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stauffer@pacbell.net,.Internet
writes:
>Why
is it that nothing Nicosia, Maher, or Chaput say or do in this
>matter
remind me in any way of anything remotely related to the
>qualities
I associate with Jack Kerouac? How far
the apples have fallen
>from
the tree. Reminds me of a nice
corporate takeover battle more than
>anything
else, or an especially ugly divorce.
kaching, on the money, you are correct
sir (carson voice)...
preach
it brother, don thy pack and join in the loooooooove
revolution... makes me sadly wonder what a grumpy old
jack would be
like
now.... or would he be grumpy? or have rediscovered his soft
lovely
dharma tendencies? hmmm...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:33:44 -0400
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: James again and Van the Man
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James:
Thanks
for the good post about the benefits of having things planned
out. It is too bad that Jack lacked such
foresight. On the other hand,
it is
good that others did it correctly.
I also
appreciated the comments and lyrics about Alan Watts/Van
Morrison. That is one of my all time favorite albums
by Van, or
anyone.
"There's
a dream where the contents are visible,
And the
poetic Champions compose,
Will
you breath not a word of this secrecy,
Will
you still be my sweet special rose?
Queen
of the Slipstream
Rinaldo
will fix it if I got the words wrong, I bet.
What a
great album.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
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Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:47:36 -0400
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
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Subject: Geese
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Geese
This
dark, wet, gray evening
Is
perfect for geese.
They
rise up from damp fields,
Through
mist and rain
As one.
Beginning
East,
Then
wheeling through North
To West
they are black
Against
the blotted sun, which is
Gray in
the distance.
The row
undulates.
They
seem quite pleased
With
this weather
That
causes accidents
And
feeds lawyers', doctors'
Ambulance
attendents' and salesmens'
Children.
They do
not need
Rain
treads,
To keep
a better look out
Or even
to care.
The
line rises over trees,
Over
the horizon,
And
they are gone.
Me, I
sit at the light, number 48.
But
there are more behind me.
In
perfect harmony.
Only
when we reach
This
horizon,
Some go
left, some go right
And
some drive straight ahead--
Undulating,
in perfect oneness,
Like
geese with different ponds.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:16:35 -0400
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From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: OTR movie update
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Heard a
great rumor about the OTR movie from a friend in LA. Film is
still
in pre-production to be directed by Francis Ford Coppola. But what
Im told
is that the movie will be narrated by Jack Kerouac himself!
Apparently
Kerouac made a studio quality recording of an "On the Road"
reading. Its going to be released by Polygram (I
think) in conjunction
with
the movie whenever it comes out. So rather than have a third person
doing
the narration, the idea is to put Kerouac's own voice on the
soundtrack!
I've
never heard Kerouac's voice or if he does a good reading, but on the
face of
it, it seems like a great idea
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 01:49:30 UT
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From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: OTR movie update
Kerouac
is a stellar reader! hope this is true,
where'd you get the info
Richard,
or is that confidential?
ciao,
sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Richard Wallner
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 1997 5:16 PM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: OTR movie update
Heard a
great rumor about the OTR movie from a friend in LA. Film is
still
in pre-production to be directed by Francis Ford Coppola. But what
Im told
is that the movie will be narrated by Jack Kerouac himself!
Apparently
Kerouac made a studio quality recording of an "On the Road"
reading. Its going to be released by Polygram (I
think) in conjunction
with
the movie whenever it comes out. So rather than have a third person
doing
the narration, the idea is to put Kerouac's own voice on the
soundtrack!
I've
never heard Kerouac's voice or if he does a good reading, but on the
face of
it, it seems like a great idea
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:54:06 -0500
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From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: carl adkins
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rinaldo i have really enjoyed the list.
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/thebeats.htm
Is carl adkins a country western singer?
I wish
that people on the beat-list would look at your list and email
you any
pictures that you might be able to use.
I is interesting to me.
I like
that tactile sense of seeing their eyes.
patricia
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Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:07:34 -0400
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From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: OTR movie update
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>I've
never heard Kerouac's voice or if he does a good reading, but on
>the
>face
of it, it seems like a great idea
Jack reads like an angel.. buy The Jack
Kerouac Collection, a set
of
three of the cd's jack made with people like Steve Allen, Al Cohn,
Zoot
Sims, nice big booklet with it... excellent quality sound...
definitely
a must have. also, for a beautiful
reading of McDougal
Street
Blues, check out the tribute disc Kerouac Kicks Joy Darkness,
that
track is the only one with Kerouac reading, there is an
unbelievable
reading of Brooklyn Bridge Blues by Allen, others include
Michael
Stipe from REM, Steve Tyler from Aerosmith, Warren Zevon, Matt
Dillon,
Hunter Thompson, Bill Burroughs, Patti Smith, really great.
a side note, check out the last song on Allen's The Lion for
Real, i
was laughing my ass off hearing him sing "fuck me and spank me."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:09:31 -0400
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From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: OTR movie update
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BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU,.Internet
writes:
>Kerouac
is a stellar reader! hope this is true,
where'd you get the
>info
>Richard,
or is that confidential?
hope it is... i think we can trust someone
like Coppola to do it
right... Scorcesi'd be nice... i think Tarentino
would butcher it by
making
it too cheaply sensational.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:21:33 -0700
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From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle
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:
>Tyson
Ouellette wrote:
>> ...
i'm quite sure that gerry
>>
phil paul are capable of being civil.
>
>
>no
i don't think they are, i think if they want to discuss this dead
>hand
stuff they should do it off list.
>p
>
Dear
Patricia, Oct 16, 1997
Quite frankly I am getting a bit
ticked off.
I think I have spoken very civilly
since my re-entry on the Beat
List
yesterday. What happened, just as it
happened with my last attempt to
enter
the Beat-List last April, is that Mr. Sampas has two guards posted at
the
doors to the Beat List. And as soon as
Nicosia appears, they punch me
out
every which way. So then I appear with
blood on my head, and people
like
you say, "Oh look, there's that bloody fighter Nicosia again." But all
Nicosia
was doing was walking thru the door.
Please reread my posts since
yesterday. I suppose the closest you
could
say I came to being uncivil was referring to Paul Maher's "Libel
Quarterly." But this was after he had printed an
outrageous claim that I
have
"the touch of death"--which is what, a veiled suggestion that I
killed
someone? What did I say that deserved that? All I did was call for John
Sampas
to cooperate with me, instead of fighting me in court, so that we can
have
the Kerouac archive properly cared for in a library. Then I have Mr.
Chaput,
the other guard at the door, claiming everything I say is "hogwash"
and
"bullshit" and "crap"!
I would say THAT is uncivil, especially when I
was
speaking the absolute truth about our phone conversation, as I have
recently
demonstrated.
I suppose Bill Gargan could simply
ban the topic of the Kerouac
Estate
from the Beat-List, but then these fellas who are posted to keep me
out
will have their final victory. Because
while I've been off the list,
they've
been going great guns promoting John Sampas.
Bentz Kirby emailed me
the
post in which Maher promised everyone (for the nth time) that Mr. Sampas
is
truly going to put the archive into a library.
So if they ban the topic,
I'll be
silenced, and Maher will go on "just being a journalist," as he
says,
and promoting John Sampas from here to Timbuktu. Now that's not fair
either.
Perhaps you think there is some other,
better alternative. Please
tell me
if you have one. But if you're going to
say I've been uncivil, then
please,
show me the examples of my uncivil discourse.
Respectfully, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 16:34:12 -0700
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From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: What Phil Chaput really Said about the
Sampases
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>>Are
you for real. I never talked to you about anything except what was
>going
on with the archive at U-Mass Lowell because I was concerned about
>it.
I wanted to hear both sides of the story. You did 99% of the talking.
>How
could you possibly come up with something like this? You are a very
>desperate
man to resort to the likes of this. All I can say folks is WOW!
>WOW!
WOW! what hogwash. I don't need notes. I know exactly what I said to
>you
and I never ever said anything like that. So again you are bull
>shitting
the folks on the beat-l ...
October
16, 1997
Dear
Phil, Oct 16, 1997
What you say to me is highly insulting. Frankly, I am tired of
being
called a liar by you. But I will try to
look at you in the best
light,
and say maybe you just don't remember what you said--even though this
conversation
took place only a year and a half ago.
So I am going to print
the
notes to our phone conversation (which was almost an hour long, the
phone
records will show) just as I typed them up right afterward. I keep
note
pads by all my phones, and it is my practice during an important call
to take
detailed notes, then to type them up immediately afterward, while
the
memories are still fresh and I can still read my own fast scribbles. I
will
swear in any court of law that this is exactly what I heard you say. I
am a
practicing Christian and I do not take swearing lightly. Moreover, I
bet
there are members of the Kerouac Committee who were there the day you
spoke
of, who will remember the incident concerning Jim Sampas just as you
recalled
it to me. I believe, at the least, that
you owe me an apology:
P.S. The only changes I have made from the original transcription
of my
notes is to add a few explanations [in brackets, like this] to make
things
clearer to the "general reader":
To paraphrase my esteemed colleague
Paul Maher: "I'm a journalist, I
just
report what I hear."
Notes from Conversation with
Phil Chaput
April 23, 1996
Duration of call:
approximately 45 minutes
Phil
called, said he had been over to the MEMORY BABE Archive at the Mogan
Center
[U Mass Lowell], and that Martha Mayo [the librarian] had told him
the
whole archive is closed -- "she said I could only see my father's
stuff"
--says
he isn't writing a book, he's just curious, he loves Kerouac--
I
explained to him that after Jim Jones [a scholar from Missouri] had been
turned
away [in June 1995] Martha Mayo had told me it was just a mistake,
she had
only meant to prevent xeroxing of Kerouac's letters. Told him I
didn't
find out that the archive was still really closed till a scholar
named
Shari Krishnan was turned away in March [1996]. Told him Lowell Sun
is
afraid to do a story about how the archive is closed. Told him I'm sick
over
the whole thing.
Told
him how the tapes are deteriorating, that they are cheap cassette
tapes. Told him that Martha Mayo refuses to dub the
tapes. Phil agreed
that it
would be easy for the university to dub the tapes. He says, "They
have
the facilities. For Chrissakes, my
buddy Jimmy Dunleavy is recording a
CD at
the university right now."
Told
him that 100 of the people I interviewed are now dead, incuding major
writers. [This was even before Ginsberg and Burroughs
died, of course.]
Phil
said he told Martha, "What about the people who are dead? How the hell
are you
going to get permission from them?" "What if the person who died had
five
brothers, do you have to go to all of them?"
Phil
said he would talk to Dave Perry at the LOWELL SUN, to try to get him
to do a
story. I told him I already sent Perry
stuff, including Shari
Krishnan's
protests that she's not being allowed to use the archive, that
she
can't finish her thesis. Phil says,
"That's bullshit!" He says
he'll
see
what he can find out.
He says
Martha Mayo blamed me for not getting releases, said people can sue
her if
she lets people use the archive. I
explained to him copyright law,
fair
use, etc. I explained to him that
Sampas [who had objected to Mayo
about
the archive being open to the public] does not have the right to keep
people
from reading or listening to Jack Kerouac materials.
Phil
says, "Let's say as a scholar I want Lew Welch's interview, and I get a
transcription
of it, and then I in turn use it in a book, can they be sued?
Maybe
that's what they're worried about."
I explained to him no, they
couldn't
sue the library, because the library is just doing its function as
a
library, making material available. I
told him it's the same thing as if
he took
ON THE ROAD out of a library, and then he printed his own copy of ON
THE ROAD
without Sampas's permission--Sampas couldn't sue the library for
letting
him see the book.
I told
Phil that Sampas had actually called Shari Krishnan in Michigan,
telling
her which letters and tapes in my collection he might give her
permission
to see! Told him how Sampas claimed to
control this material. I
said I
couldn't understand why the library was so intimidated by him.
Phil
says I gave him "a whole new read on it." Said he "doesn't want to get
involved,"
"doesn't want to get on anybody's side," because he knows John
[Sampas],
Tony [Sampas], and also knows me. Said
he had been starting to
take
their side, but now that he hears my side, "it's like a whole new world
here."
Phil
says the MEMORY BABE archive is "an absolute, amazing treasure chest of
information"
on Kerouac. I told him how the LOWELL
SUN is saying I may have
some
monetary motive [in trying to open the archive again]. I told him I
get no
money if somebody uses my archive when they write an article or a
book. Told him that my interest is purely
scholarly.
Phil
says Mayo claims "Those tapes are fragile, we can't have everybody
looking
at them." He says, "Well
shit, that's their friggin problem!"
I
agreed--I
said, "Then why the hell don't they copy them?" Phil says, you
can
copy them, and then you can take the copy and copy that 100 times! He
also
says, "To this day they haven't transcribed them yet!" Phil says he
went to
school with the secretary there, says Martha Mayo wasn't there the
first
time he went down there, the secretary said, "You're Phil Chaput, you
went to
Saint Joe's didn't ya?" He told
her he wanted his father's
transcripts. They went thru the list, and only 2-3 of his
father's tapes
have
been transcribed--most of them haven't been.
Phil told her he couldn't
spend
five or six hours in the library listening to his father's tapes. The
secretary
told him she'll try to transcribe his father's tapes as soon as
she can
get to it.
But
Phil wisely says she shouldn't be transcribing from the original tapes,
because
that will only wear them out faster. I
agreed with him that they
should
copy the tapes before they transcribe them.
I told
him I'm going to file a breach of contract against the University of
Massachusetts,
because part of my agreement with the university was that the
collection
would be made available to the public [this lawsuit is still in
the
works]. I told him that if the case
goes to trial, I hoped he would be
a
witness for me. He said, "Oh definitely!"
We
talked about Jan's desire to move her father Jack's body to Nashua. He
said he
originally felt, "That's bullshit, he shouldn't be moved." But then
said he
read in the LOWELL SUN that Stella Sampas also wanted Jack buried in
Nashua.
I told
him that the reason John Sampas wants the archive closed is because
of the
negative things on tape about his family.
I reminded Phil that his
own
father had talked to me about the fact that Memere and Stella didn't get
along. I said now they're trying to say Stella and
Memere loved each other,
that's
why Memere left her everything. Phil
says, "Well that we know is
bullshit." Phil says, "We know that Jack himself
wasn't too thrilled with
Stella
every minute." He says he hangs
around with Billy Koumantzelis and
so
"I know exactly what Jack said about Stella." I told him there's also
stuff
on those tapes about Jack planning to divorce Stella when he died. He
says,
"Yeah, I know that!"
I told
him Bancroft Library in Berkeley would like the MEMORY BABE archive,
that
they would pay Lowell to get it, and that they would make all the
materials
available, but the University of Lowell won't cooperate. Phil was
surprised
to hear I don't have copies of most of the things in the archive.
He
says, "Oh my God, you must be going out of your mind!"
We
talked about my Vietnam book--I told him it's up to 1,350 pages.
I told
him I thought Mayo was intimidated. He
says, "I could see she's
scared." But she's "acting like it's not
John," she's blaming it on
"someone
from Connecticut." Says Mayo
wouldn't give him the name of the
person. I told him it was Sampas who called the
woman in Michigan [Shari
Krishnan],
not "someone from Connecticut."
I asked
him to support me in getting this into the news--the fact that all
these
precious research materials, especially the 300 interviews, are being
buried. He says, "There's not a question that
your book [MEMORY BABE] is
the
most detailed of anybody's." He
says he's "tried to stay out of
it"--but
he may talk to Dave Perry or post something on the internet. I
told
him I'm not asking him to get involved in Jan's lawsuit, I just want
help in
saving the research materials. He says,
"I'm trying to stay
neutral,
but this is serious stuff."
He says
he knows Ellis Amburn real well [the guy Sampas authorized to write
"the
definitive Jack Kerouac biography" prior to Sampas's recent deal with
Douglas
Brinkley], that he took Amburn all over Lowell, introduced him to
Billy,
etc. He said we should send Amburn to
the MEMORY BABE archive and
see if
they turn him away. I said since
Amburn's working with Sampas, they
would
probably let him in, but it would still be closed to everyone else--so
that
wouldn't prove anything.
He
agreed that when I interviewed people, like his dad, the people knew they
were
being tape-recorded, and they knew the stuff they were saying was going
into my
book.
Phil
says, "I'm not on anybody's side, but I know John. John's been over here."
He says
he knew John before he got the Kerouac stuff, and knew Tony [Sampas]
too. "But regardless of who's fighting who,
this is serious stuff." Said
he
hadn't known what was really going on.
Says he's going to talk to his
buddy
Jimmy Dunleavy at the Lowell Sun, and Dunleavy knows Dave Perry.
Phil's
already talked to Perry but will ask Dunleavy's help to talk to him
some
more.
Phil
suggested bringing up the issue to the Lowell Kerouac Committee, which
he now
belongs to. I said he wouldn't get
anywhere, because Sampas is
behind
it. Phil claims there are people on the
committee who can't stand
Sampas. So I said, then why is it every year if Jan
Kerouac comes to
Lowell,
they won't even mention it at their events?
I also told him how
John
Sampas has been cutting down Jan's royalties, even though she's getting
sicker
and sicker. He agreed that she should
be treated better.
I told
him that Jan has gotten no money out of all the Kerouac materials
John
Sampas has sold. I told him John may
still be selling things. He told
me that
two Kerouac paintings went up for sale at Skinner's in Boston 3
months
ago. He says I can get a catalogue from
Skinner's. He says the
paintings
sold for $3-4,000 each. He says he also
went to the Antiquarian
Book
Fair about a year ago and saw a paperback inscribed from Jack to Stella
for
sale. They wanted $5,000 for it.
He
thanked me again for the article I wrote about his father in MOODY STREET
IRREGULARS. We talked about Edie [Parker Kerouac, Jack's
first wife] being
dead
now too. He says he has a great picture
of her that he took at the
dedication
[of the Kerouac Memorial].
I
talked about my vision of scholars coming to Lowell to use my archive, and
how
that's now impossible, and that I've got to move the MEMORY BABE archive
somewhere
else. He says, "They probably
don't want to let it out of Lowell,
but if
they're not gonna take care of it, then they better goddamn do
something."
I said
I didn't understand how John Sampas could have so much power over
them. Phil said: "Well you know what it is
with Mark Hemenway? Mark
Hemenway
writes THE DHARMA BEAT, and John [Sampas] feeds him original photos
and
articles. If he doesn't kiss his
goddamn ass, you think he's ever gonna
get any
stuff?"
He told
a story about Jim Sampas, "Mike's kid," who is always hanging around
with
John [Sampas, his uncle]. He says Jim
is "doing a CD" of Kerouac,
probably
Kerouac songs. Jim said he wanted to do
a presentation of it at
the
next Lowell Celebrates Kerouac, and all the committee members had to
vote on
his request. So as a gag Phil told the
committee, "I don't think we
should
let him." He laughs: "You
should've seen the looks I got!"
He says
he
"just wanted to get them going," so he kept saying, "I don't
think we
should
do it." When they finally
understood that he was joking, someone
said
angrily, "Oho! Real fuckin'
funny!"
END OF
CONVERSATION
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 21:52:18 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: What Phil Chaput really Said about
the Sampases
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Gerald
Nicosia wrote:
>
>
October 16, 1997
>
>
Dear Phil, Oct 16, 1997
>
> What you say to me is highly
insulting. Frankly, I am tired of
>
being called a liar by you. But I will
try to look at you in the best
>
light, and say maybe you just don't remember what you said--even though this
>
conversation took place only a year and a half ago. So I am going to print
>
the notes to our phone conversation (which was almost an hour long, the
>
phone records will show) just as I typed them up right afterward. I keep
>
note pads by all my phones, and it is my practice during an important call
> to
take detailed notes, then to type them up immediately afterward, while
>
the memories are still fresh and I can still read my own fast scribbles.
<snip>
When
they finally understood that he was joking, someone
>
said angrily, "Oho! Real fuckin'
funny!"
>
> END OF
CONVERSATION
rotflmao
bet
folks are lining up at the phonebooths to call you now!!!
dbr
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:01:55 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle
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I have
been thinking about my post all day. I
almost posted on it
several
times, so i am so glad you wrote. It
was an unfair post. I was
very
interested in your original post. Found it heartening and
enlightening
on a subject i was interested in. The
when the attack came
in i
was sickened becaused, i thought i knew, that they would wound you
and
distract from the message. I said that
i didn't think that the
three
of you could be civil was not that you wouldn't be civil but that
i
suspected that the communications would not be civil. I sat here
kicking
myself for how i said it. It was so
good to have you post here
and i
should have expressed that. You are a real writer and scholar and
have a
great heart. It is an honor for me to get to know you even a
little
from the list. It is both a formal and
informal form of
communication
that excites me. My post aren't academic and often i am
off
beat, but for me to leave the impression that you should not
communicate
to the list is not the meaning in my heart.
I will say
ignore
the ignoble and pardon me for i don't mean to be persumptive.
patricia
Gerald
Nicosia wrote:
>
> :
>
>Tyson Ouellette wrote:
>
>> ... i'm quite sure that gerry
>
>> phil paul are capable of being civil.
>
>
>
>
>
>no i don't think they are, i think if they want to discuss this dead
>
>hand stuff they should do it off list.
>
>p
>
>
>
Dear Patricia, Oct 16, 1997
>
> Quite frankly I am getting a bit
ticked off.
> I think I have spoken very civilly
since my re-entry on the Beat
>
List yesterday. What happened, just as
it happened with my last attempt to
>
enter the Beat-List last April, is that Mr. Sampas has two guards posted at
>
the doors to the Beat List. And as soon
as Nicosia appears, they punch me
>
out every which way. So then I appear
with blood on my head, and people
>
like you say, "Oh look, there's that bloody fighter Nicosia
again." But all
>
Nicosia was doing was walking thru the door.
> Please reread my posts since
yesterday. I suppose the closest you
>
could say I came to being uncivil was referring to Paul Maher's "Libel
>
Quarterly." But this was after he
had printed an outrageous claim that I
>
have "the touch of death"--which is what, a veiled suggestion that I
killed
>
someone? What did I say that deserved
that? All I did was call for John
>
Sampas to cooperate with me, instead of fighting me in court, so that we can
>
have the Kerouac archive properly cared for in a library. Then I have Mr.
>
Chaput, the other guard at the door, claiming everything I say is
"hogwash"
>
and "bullshit" and "crap"!
I would say THAT is uncivil, especially when I
>
was speaking the absolute truth about our phone conversation, as I have
>
recently demonstrated.
> I suppose Bill Gargan could simply
ban the topic of the Kerouac
>
Estate from the Beat-List, but then these fellas who are posted to keep me
>
out will have their final victory.
Because while I've been off the list,
>
they've been going great guns promoting John Sampas. Bentz Kirby emailed me
>
the post in which Maher promised everyone (for the nth time) that Mr. Sampas
> is
truly going to put the archive into a library.
So if they ban the topic,
>
I'll be silenced, and Maher will go on "just being a journalist," as
he
>
says, and promoting John Sampas from here to Timbuktu. Now that's not fair
>
either.
> Perhaps you think there is some
other, better alternative. Please
>
tell me if you have one. But if you're
going to say I've been uncivil, then
>
please, show me the examples of my uncivil discourse.
> Respectfully, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 23:12:18 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: What Phil Chaput really Said about
the Sampases
In-Reply-To:
<199710162334.QAA27242@norway.it.earthlink.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
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Gerry
you are a master with the pen to create that from our phone
conversation.
Very good! Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:24:38 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: What Phil Chaput really Said about
the Sampases
Mime-Version:
1.0
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At
11:12 PM 10/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Gerry
you are a master with the pen to create that from our phone
>conversation.
Very good! Phil
>
Phil, Oct 16, 1997
If you disown that conversation, then
you, sir, are the liar. Your
memory
is not that poor. And I will gladly sit
down side by side with you
in
Lowell, with lie detectors fastened to our respective wrists, to see
which
one of us is "creating" and which one telling the truth.
Yours sincerely, Gerald Nicosia.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:32:06 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael R. Brown"
<foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>
Subject: Re: What Phil Chaput really Said about
the Sampases
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19971016231218.006a1008@pop.tiac.net>
MIME-Version:
1.0
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On Thu,
16 Oct 1997, Phil Chaput wrote:
>
Gerry you are a master with the pen to create that from our phone
>
conversation. Very good! Phil
Could
we have an end, please? Or at least some more amusing insults and
put-downs?
Aristotle
said it. "Irony is more befitting the self-realized man than
buffoonery.
The ironic man takes action to amuse himself; the buffoon acts
to
amuse others."
+ -- +
-- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +
Michael R. Brown foosi@global.california.com
+ -- +
-- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +
"Why can't it just
be, Michael?"
Simunye, in conversation with
Foosi, September 1997
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:47:50 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: let's get our facts straight
Mime-Version:
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At
01:30 PM 10/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>i
love this... (John J. Dorfner)
>
Hi,
John, Oct 16, 1997
Glad this all keeps you amused. I must admit, sometimes it seems to
me too
like I've followed Alice thru the Looking Glass. I'm labelled by the
man who
cut off Jan Kerouac's foreign royalties as having "the touch of
death,"
when I was the person carrying boxes of dialysis fluids, bandages,
and
salves to her house every day. However,
I didn't get invited to the
church,
so I couldn't proclaim, "Lord, hear my prayer!" And a young man of
43 or
so totally forgets a conversation he had only a year and a half ago,
while
even Ronald Reagan with Alzheimer's did better than that. Yet when I
remind
him of the conversation, I become a liar.
You've got a good head on
your
shoulders, Johnny. Can you figure this
thing out? Or is it too absurd
to try?
Yours for the duration (as my vet
friends say),
Gerry
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 04:08:50 UT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: What Phil Chaput really Said about
the Sampases
OK
that's IT!!!! take it OFF the list
guys!!! there is absolutely no reason
to play
this out here. Gerry's original post
was completely non-incendiary.
but
almost everything since then has caused all 3 of you to regress to
somewhere
between the ages of 3 to 5. sadly, i
find myself losing respect for
you as
a result.
i will
not state my opinion on the subject here - it's not well informed
enough
anyway - although i have a strong gut reaction to what rings true.
right
now i am so revolted by this nonsense i can't even express it. the
reason
the courts have to be involved in this whole mess is due to human
selfishness
and irrationality. hardly reflective of
anything Kerouac stood
for.
please,
please, let's honor Jack by trying to show respect for him, his work
and
each other. that is the ONLY way any of
this can be solved out of court.
if
someone persists in irrationality, then a judge will decide what's right
and
it's out of your hands, anyway.
a lover
of peace and kindness,
sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Phil Chaput
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 1997 8:12 PM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: What Phil Chaput really Said about
the Sampases
Gerry
you are a master with the pen to create that from our phone
conversation.
Very good! Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 21:58:46 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: let's get our facts straight
MIME-Version:
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Gerry,
Were
you not at one point asked in letters by Jan not to represent
yourself
as her spokesperson?
JS
Gerald
Nicosia wrote:
I'm labelled by the
>
man who cut off Jan Kerouac's foreign royalties as having "the touch of
>
death," when I was the person carrying boxes of dialysis fluids, bandages,
>
and salves to her house every day.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 01:46:11 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: OTR movie update
I'll go
out on a limb and make a prediction. If
this movie is ever made, I
think
it will be GREAT!!
I'm an
optimist by nature. Any movie will have
faults. But this rumor that
ol Jack
himself will narrate is a great omen.
Just do it, and do it well,
why not
try?
Howard
Park
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:04:12 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: women poets
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>
Sherri wrote:
>
well, kids, i think it's about time we
read some poetry together. how
>
bout
> di
Prima - would be good to discuss some Beat women's contributions for
> a
>
change.
>
any takers?
I would
love to discuss Di Prima. Can anyone
post any of her poems to
the
list?
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 09:30:11 +0000
Reply-To: jhasbro@tezcat.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Hasbrouck
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle
Comments:
cc: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
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I
support the continued, open discussion of the controversy surrounding
the
Kerouac estate. I object to any policing or restriction of postings
that
deal with Beat Generation topics.
The
renewed discussion of the estate battle is important and interesting
to me
as a reader and writer. It adds value to the list. I think anyone
genuinely
interested in the Beats would feel the same way.
It
would be unfortunate if this forum were not allowed to continue in a
TOTALLY
OPEN FASHION.
-John
Hasbrouck
--
***
JOHN HASBROUCK
***
http://www.tezcat.com/~jhasbro
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 09:36:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Howl part one "Folding and
Unfolding"
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Having
contemplated the point of view of the "I saw" that begins Howl
for
Carl Solomon far longer than perhaps is sane (:)), I began to scan
the
entire section of Part One this morning looking over and back and up
and
down and through the sometimes endless stream of "who"'s. A folding
of
sorts came to me that I'll point out here and then think out loud a
bit
about what happens after this fold is made and then unfolded.
p.9
"I
saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving
hysterical
naked . . ."
p.16
"to
recreate the syntax and measure of poor human prose and stand before
you
speechless and intelligent and shaking with shame, rejected yet
confessing
out the soul to conform to the rhythm of thought in his naked
and
endless head ..."
So it
seems to me that these beginnings and endings of Part One of Howl
for
Carl Solomon so much say the same thing from different angles from
the
point of view of the same "I" having begun trying to place the
hysterical
and nakedness of the maddened generation into words and then
at the
second snipped portion the same "I" looking back at what has been
done
and commenting on the notion of recreation.
And so,
what lies between these folds when unfolded?
It seems to me on
this
Friday morning that each segment can be seen separately between
these
two folded phrases. Each an attempt to
capture to recreate the
syntax
and measure of the human experience of the hysterical and naked
maddenedness
of the generation's best minds.
And it
seems that each of the segments tells mythic autobiography in
unbelievably
condensed form. I am not nearly
familiar enough with the
details
of the Beat Generation history to fill in the paint by number
created
here. It seems obvious that the section
of the asteriked mother
when
placed between these two folds gives birth to Kaddish.
Novels,
poems, biographies -- written and unwritten -- reside in the
condensations
Ginsberg places in each of the recreated syntax and
rhythms
of the experiences of his generation within the remainder of the
segments
as contrasted within the folds. (And it
seems that the
soundtrack
for the recreation is probably saxaphone cries <grin>)....
So, to
save me years of reading, I'd be interested in other folks on the
list
who are lovers of the experiences of the Beat Generation to help
fill in
the stories condensed in each segment of the folds. It seems
that
such a process is one of the few methods of appreciating exactly
the
depth that Howl for Carl Solomon presents as a poetic autobiography
of a
generation. For in retrospect of this
folding and unfolding, it
seems
to me, that the "I" in the beginning of Howl for Carl Solomon
re-presents
the Beat Generation itself.
thanks
for reading,
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:02:29 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Donald E. Winters"
<winte030@TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: estate battle
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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All of
you people who are "sharing" the estate battle with all of us on the
list
are
goddam boring. Why don't you just scream at each other and allow the rest of
us to
enjoy the beatific splendor of Beat Generation and culture. Isn't that
what
the BEAT-L. thing was supposed to be all about? Donald
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:14:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sudama Adam Rice
<sudama@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: women poets - DiPrima poem
Mime-Version:
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quoted-printable
THE
PRACTICE OF MAGICAL EVOCATION
Diane
DiPrima
The
female is fertile, and discipline
(contra
naturam) only
confuses her
=8BGary Snyder
I am a
woman and my poems
are a
woman=B9s: easy to say
this. the female is ductile
and
(stroke after stroke)
built
for masochistic
calm. The deadened nerve
is part
of it:
awakened
sex, dead retina
fish
eyes; at hair=B9s root
minimal
feeling
and
pelvic architecture functional
assailed
inside & out
(bring
forth) the cunt gets wide
and
relatively sloppy
bring
forth men children only
female
is
ductile
woman,
a veil thru which the fingering Will
twice
torn
twice
torn
inside & out
the
flow
what
rhythm add to stillness
what
applause?
--
Adam
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:14:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: Estate Battle
MIME-Version:
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> I suppose Bill Gargan could simply
ban the topic of the
>Kerouac
>Estate
from the Beat-List, but then these fellas who are posted to keep
>me
>out
will have their final victory. Because
while I've been off the
>list,
which raises a point that's been
bothering me. why is it that on
every
single list I've ever been on, including here, there's always a
handful
of people that think every subject discussed on that list
should
be interesting to them or not be posted.
those of you who
continue
to whine about this topic being here at all are missing the
point,
this list is for beat-related matter, of which this topic surely
is, not
beat-related matter that you happen to find interesting. this
list
does not exist to please everyone subscribing to it and givem that
warm
fuzzy feeling like everything's ok, there's gonna be negative
stuff,
and if you can't handle it being around then you're lacking
simple
coping skills... no one's forcing you to read it, if you see
it's
something you don't want to read then delete it and move to the
next
message, period. don't scream at other
people because their
conversation
doesn't inclue you because you happen to hate the topic;
if a topic
had to be approved by the entire list before we could
discuss
it we wouoldn't get a damn thing done.
there's no reason why a
handful
of people cannot discuss something of interest to them here, if
there
is enough interest in that subject, which there obviously is
here.
when you buy a magazine do you pull a fit
because there happens to
be an
article in it that doesn't interest you.
do you write that
magazine
and demand that they cater to your interests? no, course not.
same
thing here. lighten up and roll with
the punches already.
excuse the commentary, just felt it
needed to be said.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:24:06 UT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle
DISCUSSION
and DEBATE are wonderful. childish, fruitless name-calling and
accusations
are not, and hinder anything constructive from resulting.
ciao,
sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:28:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Czarnecki
<peent@SERVTECH.COM>
Subject: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
Mime-Version:
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>I
support the continued, open discussion of the controversy surrounding
>the
Kerouac estate. I object to any policing or restriction of postings
>that
deal with Beat Generation topics.
>
>The
renewed discussion of the estate battle is important and interesting
>to
me as a reader and writer. It adds value to the list. I think anyone
>genuinely
interested in the Beats would feel the same way.
>
>It
would be unfortunate if this forum were not allowed to continue in a
>TOTALLY
OPEN FASHION.
>
>-John
Hasbrouck
I
wholeheartedly agree! The list can be moderated by each subscriber by
simply
not reading posts about the estate differences. No need to restrict
in any
other way. Ideally it would be great if there was no controversy
relating
to the estate, but it is what it is and it is relevant. It's all
part of
the flow. Hell, Jack and Allen had difficult times with each other
over
the years and same with Jack and Neal and Neal and Allen and. . . .
Life
isn't all peace, love and bliss.
Michael
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:53:18 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: estate battle
Mime-Version:
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At
10:02 AM 10/17/97 -0500, you wrote:
>All
of you people who are "sharing" the estate battle with all of us on
the
list
>are
goddam boring. Why don't you just scream at each other and allow the
rest of
>us
to enjoy the beatific splendor of Beat Generation and culture. Isn't that
>what
the BEAT-L. thing was supposed to be all about? Donald
>
I
agree...we should talk more about John Denver being Beat or the perils of
hitchhiking...that
is of infinite more interest! There's nothing more
intellectually
stimulating wondering about the status of a film being made
of On
the Road and ad infinitum......Paul.
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:59:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
03:24 PM 10/17/97 UT, you wrote:
>DISCUSSION
and DEBATE are wonderful. childish, fruitless name-calling and
>accusations
are not, and hinder anything constructive from resulting.
>
>ciao,
>sherri
>
When did I ever name call? What was it that
was childish? Or an accusation
from
me? When? I didn't know I was amidst such a genuine audience of
maturity.
. . there is to be no fun? Nothing interesting? I think we should
all
take your example. Yes...that is what I will do. I will be less of a
child
and more of a "mature" "adult" in order to be just like
you. Please,
hand me
a razor blade and a warm bath, surely such actions are more
desirable
than being subjugated to your thought process. With tongue
planted
firmply in cheek, Paul of TKQ. . .
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:36:24 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Tyson
Ouellette wrote:
>
> when you buy a magazine do you pull a
fit because there happens to
> be
an article in it that doesn't interest you.
do you write that
>
magazine and demand that they cater to your interests? no, course not.
>
would
someone be so kind as to give me the directions for changing my
subscription
to this "magazine" to a digest format until this year's
verse
of the same story ends.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:51:09 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
In-Reply-To: <v01530501630b80b35865@[204.181.15.86]>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I
believe Allen Ginsberg supported the Sampas family in this debate, for
what
thats worth.
Ive
read that Jan Kerouac accused Allen of selling out, but given the
amount
of time Ginsberg put in over the years promoting Kerouac's work
and
career, I would respect his opinion on this.
Then
again, Ginsberg did sell his own papers to Stanford for a cool
million
bucks, so who knows.
RJW
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:50:24 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Estate
As list
moderator, I would never try to censor debate on any legitimate
Beat
topic. I've even allowed great leeway
on topics that were off the
list. However, I have asked all listmembers to
abide by certain
guidelines
in terms of what I've called "civil discourse." Perhaps I
should
publish this guidelines again for the
benefit of new
subscribers. Listmembers should not insult one another,
call each other
names,
or accuse each other of crimes.
Listmembers should not violate
copyright
law or libel one another. In the last
round of the estate
battle,
the list and the university that houses Beat-l was threatened
with
legal action. I have neither the time
nor the inclination to deal
with
such matters. I say again it's obvious
that several list members
seem to
find it difficult to discuss the estate battle in a rational,
unemotional
manner. Given that, I think it is best
to take such
discussion
of the list.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 09:53:59 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: one small voice - a plea
In-Reply-To:
<199710170021.RAA23535@norway.it.earthlink.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
beat-l
participants.
sigh.
i have
great respect for beat-L and i think that it can be a very valuable
forum
for discussion and general community conversation (quite a while
back i
described beat-L as a big room/party with conversations coming and
going
& people running from one to another cheerly discussing, etc). so
often,
it seems, when the matter of the kerouac estate arises, the tone
around
these parts becomes more and more confrontational and negative.
this really disappoints me.
beat
literature, in my opinion, needs more and more people to recognize it
&
discuss it is an intelligent and civil manner in order for it to gather
the
respect that it deserves (for instance i was recently reading _big sky
mind_
and was excited by the comparison of beat lit. to the
trancendentalists,
can anyone enlighten me further on emerson, thoreau and
co...?).
bickering and fighting (insulting,
conversation degeneration to
insults,
you did it firsts, etc) only divide and create factions within
this
forum.
a forum like beat-L benefits from
having published and recognized
authors
and poets (of such books as "memory babe", "kerouac at rocky
mount",
"articulata", "kerouac quarterly", "kerouac
connection", "beat
scene",
"kerouac the bootleg era", "second beat", "last of the
moccasins"
- all
of these have been discussed or appeared in beat-L at some point...)
as well
as people who knew or were associated with the beats in a more
primary
way (leon, charles plymell) or just general afficianados and
excited
fans (antoine and his knowledge of jazz comes to mind), as well
as
students and fans of beat literature. THIS IS A VERY EXCITING PLACE!
i hope that all these people (and all
the other who i havent
mentioned)
feel comfortable enough to read and aprticipate in group
dicussions
without the threat of insult or injury (take that as you wish).
beat-L
is a very valuable forum and i think that only WE can keep it that
way -
an open place for intelligent discussion and appreciation - not a
place
for bickering, in-fighting or insult.
please, im not limiting what anyone
says here - dont get me wrong,
please
- i just hope that we can remember that we are adults and lets try
to keep
things civil, and when you sense that the discussion is moving
into a
more personal nature, or into a style that might be best discussed
in
private - please do so.
this is our community to make or
break.
lets make it together please.
just one small voice
yrs
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:23:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Richard
Wallner wrote:
>
> I
believe Allen Ginsberg supported the Sampas family in this debate, for what
thats worth.
... so
who knows.RJW
Oh speaking of references, where did you get
this knowledge or "did you
figure
it out by yourself because i recall he refused to take sides. Is
it from
his refusal to take sides in this issue that makes you say
this. It is this kind of nonsense that establishes
facts for many.
my
breasts
seem to
be swelling,
pressing
out of my blouse
oh god,
they are falling out
smothering
the poor innocent lamb.
patricia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:06:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>my
penis
>seem
to be swelling,
>pressing
out of my pants
>oh
god, it is falling out
>smothering
the "wanton ambling nymph".
>
>paul
>
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:16:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
In-Reply-To: <3447911D.6EA8@sunflower.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Fri,
17 Oct 1997, Patricia Elliott wrote:
>
Richard Wallner wrote:
> >
>
> I believe Allen Ginsberg supported the Sampas family in this debate, for
what
> thats worth.
>
> Oh speaking of references, where did you get
this knowledge or "did you
>
figure it out by yourself because i recall he refused to take sides.
He had
Jan thrown out of the NYU conference (or at least sat there and
allowed
it to happen), if that says anything.
email
stutz@dsl.org Copyright (c) 1997
Michael Stutz; this information is
<http://dsl.org/m/> free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL,
and as long
as this sentence remains;
it comes with absolutely NO
WARRANTY; for details see
<http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 19:11:39 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Standing Stone a Symphony by Paul
McCartney.
In-Reply-To: <3441B9BB.45ED@sunflower.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The
cover(photo by Linda McCartney) of the disk
(and
the cover of the program) offers an image of
a
gigantic monolith = standing stone. Paul McCartney
says
that Allen Ginsberg liked the title.
saluti
da
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:10:09 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jonathan Pickle
<jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Derek,
_Big Sky
Mind_ has been sitting beside my bed for a couple of days now. I
think
of Thoreau to be a precursor to the Alan Watts-"Beat Zen" spirit,
though
Thoreau associated more with the "Hindoo" faith. I found this
introductory
essay to be very enlightening. What all
did you get out of
it, the
rest of the texts?
Jon
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 17:34:09 UT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
Michael,
there's
a huge difference between having someone thrown out and letting it
happen. which was it? and where does one come by such information? just
curious...
ciao,
sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:38:33 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Paul A.
Maher Jr. wrote:
>
>
>
>
>my penis
>
>seem to be swelling,
>
>pressing out of my pants
>
>oh god, it is falling out
>
>smothering the "wanton ambling nymph".
>
>
>
>paul
>
>
>
"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our
virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
i
laughed so hard.
thanks
p
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:53:02 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Estate
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
11:50 AM 10/17/97 EDT, Bill Gargan wrote:
I say again it's obvious that
several
list members
>seem
to find it difficult to discuss the estate battle in a rational,
>unemotional
manner. Given that, I think it is best
to take such
>discussion
of the list.
>
>
Oct 17, 1997
Bill,
I think you are missing the forest for
the trees. What happened
here is
that the same two individuals as last time, Maher and Chaput, have
used
the same tactics they used last time, outrageous, inflammatory
language,
to verbally mug me the instant I appear.
Two days ago I attempted
to say
something in a calm, rational vein about my goals and motivations for
carrying
on Jan Kerouac's estate fight. What
happens then? Paul Maher,
supposedly
in his role of "neutral journalist," prints an outrageous claim
by John
Sampas that I am a murderer! Not only
such a claim, but in the most
sensational
fashion, using phrases like "touch of death" that no respectable
journalist
would use even in regard to O.J. Simpson.
Anybody who knows
anything
about journalism--and I taught it at the University of
Illinois--knows
that a journalist is INDEED HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT HE
PRINTS. If Mr. Maher, as a responsible journalist,
wished to report that
Mr.
Sampas had accused me of being a murderer, then at the very least he
needed
to indicate what the basis for that charge was. No professional
journalist
in the world simply prints his source's phone number and says,
"Call
him!" Even on a metaphorical
level, the charge is abusive and has no
rational
basis. Is my touch on Kerouac materials
supposed to be murderous?
Then
how did that murderous touch produce MEMORY BABE, an award-winning
biography
that was called by the WASHINGTON POST only last month "the best
of the
Kerouac biographies" (BOOK WORLD, August 31, 1997)?
By the same token, if Mr. Chaput
disputed my memory of our recent
phone
conversation, he could have said, "That's not how I remember our
talk"--and
then he could have privately asked me to show him my notes to
that
conversation. Instead he announces to
the Beat-List, in his own
inflammatory
language, that I am a "desperate man" producing only "bullshit"
"hogwash"
and "crap."
Bill, the pattern is not that the
topic of the Kerouac Estate
automatically
makes everybody talk crazy and abusive.
In fact, there have
been
many serious, thoughtful, informative posts here about it. Just today
there
were posts from John Hasbrouck and Michael Czarnecki, free from venom,
that
indicated a serious interest in discussing this subject. The fact is
that
the topic immediately provokes frothing, inflammatory language from
only
two individuals: Paul Maher, Jr. and Phil Chaput. Both of those
gentlemen,
by their own admission, are part of John Sampas's inner circle.
Which
leads me to believe there is a very definite, ulterior motive behind
their
vicious attacks on me. I do not believe
they just see stars and hear
explosions
as soon as "Kerouac estate" is spoken. I believe there is an
agenda
behind their immoderate attacks on me, and I believe at least part of
that
agenda is to get me off the Beat List so that I cannot discuss the
Kerouac
Estate. Once I am gone, they will go
ahead and sing the virtues of
John
Sampas and their Kerouac Committee just as they always have
Back in the late 1960's, under the
reign of King Richard the
Milhous,
we saw the use of such "dirty tricks" by the President of the
United
States, to discredit his opponents.
Nixon himself was finally
censured
for such abusive behavior. I think
instead of banning the topic of
the
Kerouac Estate, you should consider banning abusive language,
inflammatory
and baseless accusations ("touch of death"), and, if need be,
the two
individuals who continue turning this topic into a circus of dirty
tricks.
Respectfully, Gerald Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:00:20 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Re: estate battle & Paul A. Maher
Jr.
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>At
10:02 AM 10/17/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>All
of you people who are "sharing" the estate battle with all of us on
the
>list
>>are
goddam boring. Why don't you just scream at each other and allow the
>rest
of
>>us
to enjoy the beatific splendor of Beat Generation and culture. Isn't that
>>what
the BEAT-L. thing was supposed to be all about? Donald
>>
>
>I
agree...we should talk more about John Denver being Beat or the perils of
>hitchhiking...that
is of infinite more interest! There's nothing more
>intellectually
stimulating wondering about the status of a film being made
>of
On the Road and ad infinitum......Paul.
>"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
While I do not share Donald's vehemence
regarding this thread, I find it
odd
that Mr. Maher, who initially claimed to be performing a journalistic
duty by
sharing a quote (my apologies for paraphrasing), now resorts to such
sarcasm. Perhaps he's just having a bad day but it
makes me wonder if his
only
reason for subscribing to this list is for self-promotion. And when I
think
of all the messages containing nothing but URL's and a "Check out the
new..."
signed by Paul A. Maher Jr. of The Kerouac Quarterly, I'm quite sure
that I
wonder without good reason.
James
Marshall
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 17:43:08 UT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Derek
& Jon,
I have
a book which you might find useful for the transcendentalist's
background,
etc. i bought it used, so i don't know
if it's still in print, if
you
can't find it and are interested in reading it, i'll see if i can find any
more
copies in the used bookstores round here.
i have
only read a wee bit of it as i bought it right about the time i joined
the
list and started reading other things; but it seems like it could be a
good
overview of the subject with many essays, poems and excerpts of writings.
"The
American Transcendentalists"
edited by Perry Miller, published by The
Johns
Hopkins University Press in 1981.
Originally published by Doubleday in
1957.
ciao,
sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:50:42 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.32.19971017131009.0068bed4@maila.wm.edu>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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jon
well i
admit that im not all the way thru _big sky mind_ (which reminds me
does
anyone out there have copies of the issues of tricycle that
serialized
kerouacs "wake up"? also - is that the same text that appeared
in
_some of the dharma"?) but i do find the exploration of eastern
religion
in beat lit rather fascinating - i wonder if it could be
considered
bpart of their "rejection" of the status quo of western thought
(at the
time) by trying to embrace a religion taht better exemplyfied
their
belief in comapssion in what seemed a "compassionless" time?
yrs
derek
On Fri,
17 Oct 1997, Jonathan Pickle wrote:
>
Derek,
>
_Big Sky Mind_ has been sitting beside my bed for a couple of days now. I
>
think of Thoreau to be a precursor to the Alan Watts-"Beat Zen"
spirit,
>
though Thoreau associated more with the "Hindoo" faith. I found this
>
introductory essay to be very enlightening.
What all did you get out of
>
it, the rest of the texts?
>
>
Jon
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 19:46:37 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: What is the sound of one hand clapping?
(fwd) SUN RA
In-Reply-To: <3441B9BB.45ED@sunflower.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Date:
Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:00:01 -0800
>From:
bofus? <bofus@mindspring.com>
>Subject:
Re: SUN RA
>
>Jeff
Johnson <johnson3@eau.net> wrote:
>>
>>
here is a conversation with the late Sun Ra that James Jackson who played
>>
oboe, bassoon and a whole bunch of other shit told me about:
>>
>>
James Jackson: I got something you
can't possibly figure out. An
>>
immeasurable equation. Folks been tryin
to put an answer to this for
years.
>>
>>
Sun Ra: Oh yeah, Jacks?
>>
>>
James Jackson: What is the sound of one
hand clapping?
>>
>>
Sun Ra: The wind.
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 19:53:55 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: una poesia scritta in italiano da
Lawrence Ferlinghetti.
In-Reply-To: <3441B9BB.45ED@sunflower.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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Alla maniera di Cecco
Angiolieri
S'i' fosse foco, non fumerei
S'i' fosse vento, suonerei soltanto i
flauti lirici
S'i' fosse acqua, non berrei altro che
vino
S'i' fosse dio, mi farei una Dea
S'i' fosse Papa, mi farei mamma mia
S'i' fosse mamma, darei natali a molte
vergini
S'i' fosse imperatore, sa' che farei?
Ucciderei tutti gl'imperatori.
S'i' fosse morte, ritornerei all'utero
per ricominciare
S'i' fosse cieco, troverei un cane
S'i' fosse un cane, troverei un cieco
Che vuole fare molte passeggiate ai
bordelli.
---
written
in italian by Lawrence Ferlinghetti
---
cari
saluti e buon sabato a tutti,
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 20:07:45 +0100
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: archive
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997101517244596@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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At
17.20 15/10/97 EDT, Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET> wrote:
>The
disk that holds the archive for Beat-l is full. As a result, Fred
>Bogin
and I will have to do something to free disk space. Our plan is
>to
download all 1995 files and to erase them from the online archive. I
>will
work on editing the downloaded files and restore those threads that
>I
think have archival importance at a later date. If anyone has any
>interest
in keeping all postings to Beat-l for whatever mad reason, now
>would
be a good time download those files to your hard drive.
>
>
Bill,
please dont'make that Fahrenheit-like project to erase the
beat-L
files 1995 or anything other, i've noticed that the entire
beat-L
archive is 27,000,000bytes=27 megaByte, if i'm wrong
please
have me a touch, i dunno 'cuz of 27 Mega are too much a lot
of disk
space on the hard-disk. Please, please, don't...
yr
Rinaldo... a merchant of venice...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:21:39 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
Mime-Version:
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At
05:34 PM 10/17/97 UT, you wrote:
>Michael,
>
>there's
a huge difference between having someone thrown out and letting it
>happen. which was it? and where does one come by such information? just
>curious...
>
>ciao,
sherri
>
Hi,
Sherri, Oct 17, 1997
I was there, I got thrown out along
with Jan (and also Jacques
Kirouac,
70-year-old founding president of the Kerouac Family Association
from
Quebec), so I can tell you my version.
You can also read what I wrote
about
it on Joe Grant's website, www.bookzen.com.
My article there is
called
"Kerouac-gate at NYU."
Jan had been refused permission to
participate in the conference by
Helen
Kelly, NYU's program director, who was working closely with the Sampas
family,
Ann Charters, and Allen Ginsberg. So
Jan paid $120 to get into the
conference
about her father. Just as the
conference began, Jan approached
Allen
Ginsberg, who had just taken the lecturn.
Jan had her elderly Quebec
cousin
by her side. Jan wanted to ask Allen,
her godfather, if she could
have
five minutes to speak to the audience.
Specifically, she wanted to
tell
them that the New York Public Library and the Bancroft Library were
both
willing to pay one million dollars to acquire the whole Kerouac
Archive. She wanted to call upon John Sampas to work
with her in getting
her
father's archive into one of those libraries.
That was all she intended
to say.
Immediately Helen Kelly fingered Jan,
and university police rushed
up to
grab both Jan and Jacques. As the
police began removing them from the
hall, I
in turn stood up and yelled to Allen, who was standing mutely on the
stage:
"Allen, you can't let this happen!
You can't let Jan Kerouac be
dragged
out of a Kerouac Conference!"
Kelly fingered me, and the police
then
began removing me too.
Allen was standing like a befuddled
old man, muttering into the
microphone
that "this is all irrelevant!"
I yelled back at him--remember,
Allen
and I had spent 100's of hours in each other's company over a 20 year
period,
I had had dinner with Allen at his house several times, I had even
slept
at his apartment in New York and his house in Boulder--I yelled to
Allen,
"For God's sake, Allen! It's not
irrelevant! This is Jack's
daughter! It's about his papers!"
Then Allen said, still muttering, "OK, let's take a
vote." But bear
in
mind, there's all kinds of noise from the crowd, Jan's supporters in the
back of
the room are yelling, most of the crowd doesn't know what the hell
is
going on. Allen mutters: "How many
people want to listen to them?"
Only
a few
hands go up, because most people don't even know this is Kerouac's
daughter,
Kerouac's biographer, and the president of the Kerouac Family
Association. Then Allen says more loudly: "How many
people would like the
program
to start now?" And of course a lot
more hands go up, because people
want
the program to start. They don't even
know what they've voted to miss.
So it's a complex story, but yes, I do
hold Allen accountable. He
sat on a
witness stand during the trial of the Chicago Seven and told the
jury
that Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Ruben had a constitutional right to cry
"Revolution!"
in the streets of America. But he would
not stand up for the
right
of his best friend's daughter, his goddaughter, to speak five minutes
about
her own father.
Go figure.
Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:58:15 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> While I do not share Donald's vehemence
regarding this thread, I find it
>odd
that Mr. Maher, who initially claimed to be performing a journalistic
>duty
by sharing a quote (my apologies for paraphrasing), now resorts to such
>sarcasm. Perhaps he's just having a bad day but it
makes me wonder if his
>only
reason for subscribing to this list is for self-promotion. And when I
>think
of all the messages containing nothing but URL's and a "Check out the
>new..."
signed by Paul A. Maher Jr. of The Kerouac Quarterly, I'm quite sure
>that
I wonder without good reason.
>
>James
Marshall
>Yes...you
are the intuitive one, but unlike others, I have a constructive
agenda
and I do contribute to this list. Sarcasm, I feel, is as much my
right
as anybody's.
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:52:40 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
In-Reply-To:
<3447911D.6EA8@sunflower.com>
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On Fri,
17 Oct 1997, Patricia Elliott wrote:
>
> Oh speaking of references, where did you get
this knowledge or "did you
>
figure it out by yourself because i recall he refused to take sides. Is
Not
only did Ginsberg have Jan Ke rouac thrown out of the conference, he
was
sitting next to John Sampas the whole time.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:49:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Like Old Days in the Park--Is It
Real or is it Retro?
Mime-Version:
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Ted
Morgan is a journalist who writes biographies.
I
recall
hearing a mention of his having written one about
either
Ginsberg or Kerouac. I read a pretty
good one he
wrote
about Somerset Maughm.
Mike
Rice
At
08:53 PM 10/16/97 UT, you wrote:
>Patricia
- this is wonderful. do you have more
of this?
>and
who is Ted Morgan (ignorant, here)?
>
>ciao,
>sherri
>
>----------
>From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Patricia Elliott
>Sent: Thursday, October 16, 1997 12:45 PM
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Subject: Re: Like Old Days in the Park--Is It
Real or is it Retro?
>
>Patricia
Elliott wrote:
>this
was a scrap of a poem from my journal, which is a pile of paper
>laying
in a drawer, occassionally i add a page or note to it.
>
>it
is from a day that i went out to freds with william and ted morgan.
>I
thought ted was a spook. on the scrap, the verses were seperated.
>
>shooting
with the men 1985 by patricia elliott
>The
tall thin man
>leaps
to a crouch
>opening
fire on his own heart.
>
>the
tall slim eye once again
>baring
the tattered muscle,
>He
led me once and then again up to the gun.
>Both
of us getting past past.
>
>I
shot fast, He took my hand ,
>he
sang, he wept and gave me tears.
>we
walked home through the dark.
>
>
>i
watched morgan stand stiff, posed,
>ignoring
me, for who was she
>but
some ol sow eyed gal.
>I
am the ghost, the one that suvived.
>
>trying
to smell the hidden secrets
>in
the face of the horrid honest man.
>ted
was green with fear
> if
this was a writer.
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:49:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: What Phil Chaput really Said about
the Sampases
Mime-Version:
1.0
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At
08:24 PM 10/16/97 -0700, you wrote:
>At
11:12 PM 10/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>Gerry
you are a master with the pen to create that from our phone
>>conversation.
Very good! Phil
>>
>Phil, Oct 16, 1997
> If you disown that conversation, then
you, sir, are the liar. Your
>memory
is not that poor. And I will gladly sit
down side by side with you
>in
Lowell, with lie detectors fastened to our respective wrists, to see
>which
one of us is "creating" and which one telling the truth.
> Yours sincerely, Gerald Nicosia.
>
>
And
instead of a traditional lie detector, a studio quality voice-0ver
from
the Great Kerouac himself will render a verdict from somewhere in
the
Beat Ethosphere to those gathered in Lowell.
It will be wonderful!
Mike
Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:49:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
Mime-Version:
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At
11:23 AM 10/17/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Richard
Wallner wrote:
>>
>>
I believe Allen Ginsberg supported the Sampas family in this debate, for what
>
thats worth.
>
>...
so who knows.RJW
>
> Oh
speaking of references, where did you get this knowledge or "did you
>figure
it out by yourself because i recall he refused to take sides. Is
>it
from his refusal to take sides in this issue that makes you say
>this. It is this kind of nonsense that establishes
facts for many.
>
>my
breasts
>seem
to be swelling,
>pressing
out of my blouse
>oh
god, they are falling out
>smothering
the poor innocent lamb.
>
>patricia
>
>
Dear
Patty,
I would
like to be there when that is happening.
I went
to
Nashville last Saturday morning. When I
got back the
first
war I had ever witnessed had broken out on the Beat
list. I thought the dialogue was fairly tepid here
since
I
joined last summer. Its great to see
the list reacting
like a
newsgroup for a change even if I don't want to argue
any of
these issues.
While
in Nashville, I stopped into a number of old record
shops
like the The Ernest Tubb record store on Broadway and
searched
for Beat archive material. Just kidding
about that.
I
shopped a number of used CD and record stories looking for
a copy
of Brooke Benton-40 Greatest Hits which includes the
Dinah
Washington duets, and is no longer manufactured. Also,
I was
looking for any CD which contains the songs of mid sixties
folksinger
Verdele Smith. All I found were two
singles with
Tar
& Cement, a favorite of mine, on one side of each. Does
anyone
know what happened to her. And does
anyone know where
I might
acquire CDs by these less than gigantic recording
artists? I have checked many stores and several internet
old
CD
sites.
Mike
Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:39:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jonathan Pickle
<jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>
Mime-Version:
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Sounds
good. I'll look for it around here too.
Jon
At
05:43 PM 10/17/97 UT, you wrote:
>Derek
& Jon,
>
>I
have a book which you might find useful for the transcendentalist's
>background,
etc. i bought it used, so i don't know
if it's still in
print,
if
>you
can't find it and are interested in reading it, i'll see if i can find
any
>more
copies in the used bookstores round here.
>
>i
have only read a wee bit of it as i bought it right about the time i joined
>the
list and started reading other things; but it seems like it could be a
>good
overview of the subject with many essays, poems and excerpts of
writings.
>
>"The
American Transcendentalists"
edited by Perry Miller, published by The
>Johns
Hopkins University Press in 1981.
Originally published by Doubleday in
>1957.
>
>ciao,
>sherri
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:50:34 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: OTR movie update
Mime-Version:
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Content-Type:
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At
08:16 PM 10/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Heard
a great rumor about the OTR movie from a friend in LA. Film is
>still
in pre-production to be directed by Francis Ford Coppola. But what
>Im
told is that the movie will be narrated by Jack Kerouac himself!
>Apparently
Kerouac made a studio quality recording of an "On the Road"
>reading. Its going to be released by Polygram (I
think) in conjunction
>with
the movie whenever it comes out. So rather than have a third person
>doing
the narration, the idea is to put Kerouac's own voice on the
>soundtrack!
>
>I've
never heard Kerouac's voice or if he does a good reading, but on the
>face
of it, it seems like a great idea
>
>
If
you've never heard Lerouac's voice and have a computer that can play
sound
go to
http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_speaks/kerouacspeaks.html
There
are a lot of short sound snips of kerouac.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:45:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jonathan Pickle
<jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
Mime-Version:
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Derek,
They
are separate works as far as I have understood. I have not seen these
issues
of Tricycle - it is not sold anywhere within walking distance of the
College. I have asked earlier on the list, does any
one know if Tricycle
has
published the serialized version into one volume?
I agree
- I find the Eastern aspect of the Beats fascinating. I really
enjoy
Alan Watts' essay "Beat Zen, Square Zen, and Zen" it's on the net
somewhere
I'm sure. As far as their rejection oof
the status quo - I don't
think
so. Rather I see it as a sincere search
for something to make sense
of
their lives - the rejection aspect comes in their questioning the dogmas
of the
society. That seems like more of a
rejection than accepting an
Eastern
perspective.
Jon
At
11:50 AM 10/17/97 -0600, you wrote:
>jon
>well
i admit that im not all the way thru _big sky mind_ (which reminds me
>does
anyone out there have copies of the issues of tricycle that
>serialized
kerouacs "wake up"? also - is that the same text that appeared
>in
_some of the dharma"?) but i do find the exploration of eastern
>religion
in beat lit rather fascinating - i wonder if it could be
>considered
bpart of their "rejection" of the status quo of western thought
>(at
the time) by trying to embrace a religion taht better exemplyfied
>their
belief in comapssion in what seemed a "compassionless" time?
>yrs
>derek
>
>On
Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Jonathan Pickle wrote:
>>
Derek,
>>
_Big Sky Mind_ has been sitting beside my bed for a couple of days now. I
>>
think of Thoreau to be a precursor to the Alan Watts-"Beat Zen" spirit,
>>
though Thoreau associated more with the "Hindoo" faith. I found this
>>
introductory essay to be very enlightening.
What all did you get out of
>>
it, the rest of the texts?
>>
>>
Jon
>>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:59:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Like Old Days in the Park--Is It
Real or is it Retro?
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Mike
Rice wrote:
>
>
Ted Morgan is a journalist who writes biographies. I
>
recall hearing a mention of his having written one about
>
either Ginsberg or Kerouac. I read a
pretty good one he
>
wrote about Somerset Maughm.
gee, i
would never have said that.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:13:23 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Hayward <hayward@SFU.CA>
Subject: Van Morrison and the Beats
Mime-Version:
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Content-Type:
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Check
out the following page (part of the Van Morrison home page(s)) for
Van
Morrison references to Kerouac et al:
http://www.harbour.sfu.ca/~hayward/van/glossary/kerouac.html
You can
use the cross-linking to track down other references in Van's lyrics.
...Michael
>Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 14:17:32 -0400
>From: Michael Czarnecki
<peent@SERVTECH.COM>
>Subject:
Re: Van Morrison.
>
>>>
Alan Watts Blues by Van
Morrison
>>
>>What
album is this from? I'm a big fan but
don't recognize this one. Of
>>course
he's got a song list that would stretch the length of Italy so I'm
>>not
surprised.
>>
>>------------------
>>Alex
Howard
>
>Poetic
Champions Compose. 1987.
>
>Van
refers quite often to beat references.
>In
"Cleaning Windows" from Beautiful Vision, 1982
>
>"I
went home and read my Christmas Humpheries book on Zen.
>Curiosity
killed the cat,
>Kerouac's
Dharma Bums and On the Road.
>What's
my line, I'm happy cleaning windows."
>
>Also,
in "On Hyndford Street" from the double release HYmns To the Silence
>
>"And
reading Mr. Jellyroll
>and
Big Bill Broonzy
>and"Realy
the Blues by Mezz Mezzrow
>and
Dharma Bums by Jack Kerouac
>over
and over again."
>
>I'm
sure there's other songs with beat references but these are the first
>ones
that come to mind.
>
>I've
always seen Van as one of the real artists in the pop music field,
>doing
what he wants to do as an artist and not worrying about record sales
>and
pleasing the public very much.
>
>Michael
Michael
Hayward
Email: hayward@sfu.ca
Himie
Koshevoy Publishing Lab
Simon Fraser University
Tel:
(604) 291-5032
515 West Hastings Street
Fax:
(604) 291-5060
Vancouver, B.C.
WWW:
http://www.harbour.sfu.ca/~hayward/
Canada V6B 5K3
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:39:38 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
In-Reply-To:
<UPMAIL14.199710171733550772@classic.msn.com>
MIME-Version:
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On Fri,
17 Oct 1997, Sherri wrote:
>
there's a huge difference between having someone thrown out and letting it
>
happen. which was it? and where does one come by such information?
Well, I
was there, I saw it. I just read Nicosia's post, and it reads pretty
much
like how I remember. I remember the "vote," but I -- like many people
there,
I can guess -- didn't know it was Jan Kerouac until later, when I was
told.
Whover Jan and her companion was, it was obvious by the way the
conversation
went that they knew AG, and it was weird seeing them get thrown
out
etc. The convention was taped, there's a several-tape video out of it
that
you can buy, and I assume that little scene made the tape (anybody
know? I
am dyin' to see those tapes btw).
email
stutz@dsl.org Copyright (c) 1997
Michael Stutz; this information is
<http://dsl.org/m/> free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL,
and as long
as this sentence remains;
it comes with absolutely NO
WARRANTY; for details see
<http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:20:44 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck (fwd)
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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[this
was meant for the list... btw sherri i'm almost positive that
water
row stocks the tape...]
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date:
Fri, 17 Oct 97 20:12:06 UT
From:
Sherri
<love_singing@classic.msn.com>
To:
Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
Subject:
RE: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
thanks
to both Michael and Gerry for the info.
i too would be interested in
this
video. Jeff Weinberg, Jo Grant or Gary
Glazner - any of you sell it?
ciao,
sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:17:31 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.32.19971017144546.0068a4e8@maila.wm.edu>
Mime-Version:
1.0
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On Fri,
17 Oct 1997, Jonathan Pickle wrote:
(snip)
> I
agree - I find the Eastern aspect of the Beats fascinating. I really
>
enjoy Alan Watts' essay "Beat Zen, Square Zen, and Zen" it's on the net
>
somewhere I'm sure. As far as their
rejection oof the status quo - I don't
>
think so. Rather I see it as a sincere
search for something to make sense
> of
their lives - the rejection aspect comes in their questioning the dogmas
> of
the society. That seems like more of a
rejection than accepting an
>
Eastern perspective.
jon
good
point - i hadnt really thought all that out beore i wrote - of
course,
kerouac (for instance) didnt reject catholicism thru-out his life,
but
rather tempered it with buddhism and tried to combine differnet
religions
(as tonklinson (sp?) mentions in _big sky mind_ he meditated and
even
fasted for ramadan). the best way that he could make sens eof his
"role"
and his place with in the burgeoning 50's culture was to be drawn
to
religion and meditation?
i guess trying to define why someone
is drawn religiously towards
something
is a bit of a fallacy, isnt it?
but it does seem that religion (for
instance kerouac defining
"beat"
as "beatific") plays a very large role in beat lit in general
(kerouac,
ginsberg, snyder, saijo, welch, diprima, waldman, etc)...
yrs
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:51:50 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
In-Reply-To:
<199710171821.LAA06961@iceland.it.earthlink.net>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Maybe
it does read too much into it though to say that Allen therefore
opposed
Jan's ideas.
However,
though he was her daughter, Jan was not anywhere near as close
to Jack
as Ginsberg or his in-laws the Sampases.
(You mention in your
book
that Jan only ever met Jack twice right?)
So who
is moare qualified to judge what Jack would have wanted? Im not
taking
sides, just wondering how anyone could know for sure.
Richard
W.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:52:30 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Shawn Vlad <svlad@CEHS.SIU.EDU>
Subject: my first posting and my first poem for
you all.
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain
Well,
given the amount of banter with this estate junk I thought I would
lighten
things up and post a poem.
I have
been working on a "duality" genre and have a couple of works to
show
off eventually. If you have any
comments please respond to
gradvlad@hotmail.com.
Untitled
Green
envy.
Slowly,
Slides.
Down my
through
Like a.
Lubricated.
Piston.
copyrighted
and all that junk...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 21:20:27 UT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: your mail
Jon
& Derek,
perhaps
spirituality would be a better term, as the Latin root of the word
religion
includes the meaning "obligation, bond", which would seem to go
against
the grain of the freedom that the beats sought. i have always thought
that
many of the beats were looking for the linking threads in their spiritual
explorations. but perhaps that's because that's my
slant... just always
thought
that the beats sought to get down to the roots of things, the core of
what is
and as such, ignored what they found to be superfluous in various
schools
of spiritual thought and held on to what rung true for them.
just a
thought...
ciao,
sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:59:14 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher
<brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
In-Reply-To:
<v01530501630b80b35865@[204.181.15.86]> from "Michael
Czarnecki"
at Oct 17, 97 11:28:52 am
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>
>I support the continued, open discussion of the controversy surrounding
>
>the Kerouac estate. I object to any policing or restriction of postings
>
>that deal with Beat Generation topics.
>
>
>
>-John Hasbrouck
>
> I
wholeheartedly agree! The list can be moderated by each subscriber by
>
simply not reading posts about the estate differences. No need to restrict
> in
any other way. Ideally it would be great if there was no controversy
>
relating to the estate, but it is what it is and it is relevant. It's all
>
part of the flow. Hell, Jack and Allen had difficult times with each other
>
over the years and same with Jack and Neal and Neal and Allen and. . . .
>
Life isn't all peace, love and bliss.
>
>
Michael
I must
say I find it unbelievable that anybody who lived through
the
Spring '97 version of the Gerry/Phil/Paul show would actually
like to
sit through a rerun, but I know you guys were both around
last
time, so what can I say but "It takes all kinds"!
Personally,
I just set my list subscription to digest form, which
means
I'll get all the posts in a single mail once a day. David
Rhaesa
asked how this is done: you send mail to listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu
(any
subject header is okay) with the text "set beat-l digest".
Takes a
few hours to process, and when it does you get a mail
telling
you how to reverse it if/when you want to.
I agree
that life isn't all peace and love and bliss -- but I
always
choose my battles, and I don't choose this one.
------------------------------------------------------
| Levi
Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
|
| |
| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (the beat literature web site) |
|
|
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
|
|
|
*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---* |
| |
| Mister, I ain't a boy, no I'm
a man |
------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 18:05:54 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Digest Information (was Re: Estate
Battle, John Hasbrouck)
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Levi
Asher wrote:
>
>
Personally, I just set my list subscription to digest form, which
>
means I'll get all the posts in a single mail once a day. David
>
Rhaesa asked how this is done: you send mail to listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu
>
(any subject header is okay) with the text "set beat-l digest".
>
Takes a few hours to process, and when it does you get a mail
>
telling you how to reverse it if/when you want to.
>
Thanks
L.A.
dbr
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 19:42:58 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John J Dorfner
<Kirouack@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: jazz
how
about...
charlie
christian
coleman
hawkins
jimmy
smith
joe
williams
dave
brubeck
zoot
simms
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 19:54:29 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: NYU Beat Conference Video Tapes
For
those of you who asked about videos of NYU Beat conference, May 1994
(when
Jan and Gerry were booted out), Yes, we sell tapes of the
conference....None
of the tapes have the hassle scenes with Jan and Gerry but
they
all do have panel discussions and talks with various Beat legends and
participants:
1. The
NY Beat Genration Show: Volume one - History and Overview
of Beat
Generation. With Charters, Ginsberg, Amram, Carolyn Cassady, Corso,
Ferlinghetti,
Joyce johnson, Hettie Jones, Hunter Thompson, and others.
2. The
NY Beat Generation Show:Volume two - Women and The Beats. Jan Kerouac,
Carolyn
Cassady, Hettie Jones, Joyce Johnson, Anne Waldman.
3. The
NY Beat Generation Show: Volume three -
"Music Moves The Spirit."
Performances
byDavid Amram, Ginsberg, Ted Joans, Ray Manzarek (Doors) and
Michael
McClure, Terry Southern.
Also
available:
4."The
Poetable JackKerouac & Selected Letters 1940-56."
March
15, 1995. St Mark's Poetry Center, NYC. Hosted by Ann Charters and
Allen
Ginsberg. In celebration of the two Kerouac books, there was a all-star
reading
with Charters, Clark Coolidge, Dave Van Ronk, Ginsberg, Amram, Ed
Sander,
Lee Ranaldo, Jan Kerouac, and others.
5.
"Ginsberg Sings Blake." A concert of 30 songs performed by Allen -
lyrics
by
William Blake. Songs of Innocence/Songs ofExperience.
6. Beat
Legends: Gregory Corso. 1991 historic greenwich Village
Reading.
55 mins.
7. Beat
Legends: Allen GINSBERG
92
MINS. 1992 readIng in NYC.
8. Ray
Bremser: The Jazz Poems. 1994 NYC. Bremser reads his jazz/Beat poetry
in his
hotel room...Bremser is Bob Dylan's favorite Beat poet....
All
tapes are $39.95 each. Shipping extra.
All
videos produced by Thin Air Video. Sometimes the editor gets a little too
creative
(IMO) with special effects but these tapes have sold well here for
the
past three years.....
Any
questions, let me know.....
MC/Visa/Check/Money
ORDER. Satisfaction guaranteed (as usual)
Thanks
-
Jeffrey
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 17:06:23 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: NYU Beat Conference Video Tapes
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
07:54 PM 10/17/97 -0400, you wrote:
>For
those of you who asked about videos of NYU Beat conference, May 1994
>(when
Jan and Gerry were booted out), Yes, we sell tapes of the
>conference....None
of the tapes have the hassle scenes with Jan and Gerry...
Once
again we get the edited version of history.
What did they do, burn the
tape
with me and Jan on it? Anybody
connected with NYU care to respond?
--Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 17:12:16 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: NYU Beat Conference Video Tapes
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
07:54 PM 10/17/97 -0400, you wrote:
>For
those of you who asked about videos of NYU Beat conference, May 1994
>(when
Jan and Gerry were booted out),
Hi,
Jeffrey, Oct 17, 1997
Guess what? You've got the wrong date.
In May, 1994, Jan and I
were
honored guests; we even had our official badges. That was the Beat
Generation
Conference. (We just didn't get to
sleep in the same dormitory
with
Ann Charters or to sit at the head table with her.) It was in June
1995,
at the Kerouac Conference, when we barely got thru door before getting
tossed
out.
Just trying to keep history straight.
--Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 19:47:54 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck (fwd)
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.LNX.3.95.971017161930.14616H-100000@devel.nacs.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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>[this
was meant for the list... btw sherri i'm almost positive that
>water
row stocks the tape...]
>----------
Forwarded message ----------
>Date:
Fri, 17 Oct 97 20:12:06 UT
>From:
Sherri
<love_singing@classic.msn.com>
>To:
Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
>Subject:
RE: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
>
>thanks
to both Michael and Gerry for the info.
i too would be interested in
>this
video. Jeff Weinberg, Jo Grant or Gary
Glazner - any of you sell it?
>
>ciao,
>sherri
Jo
Grant here.
No I do not have it, but I'll bet an eye
tooth that the powers that ran
that
conference have edited out anything that was on tape showing Jan, the
seniorKeroauc
and Gerry getting a police escorted heave-ho from the
conference.
If the
tapes actually show that incedent I'll want a copy.
j grant
Small Press Authors and Publishers
display books
FREE
at
BookZen
http://www.bookzen.com
402,900 visitors - 07-01-96 to
07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 19:49:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.971017164904.27508A-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Maybe
it does read too much into it though to say that Allen therefore
>opposed
Jan's ideas.
>
>However,
though he was her daughter, Jan was not anywhere near as close
>to
Jack as Ginsberg or his in-laws the Sampases.
(You mention in your
>book
that Jan only ever met Jack twice right?)
>
>So
who is moare qualified to judge what Jack would have wanted? Im not
>taking
sides, just wondering how anyone could know for sure.
>
>Richard
W.
Read
Jack's last letter, written to his nephew the day before he died. If
you do
not have a copy I'll send you one--even tho I have been threaten
with
law suits by John Sampas over the copy I have.
j grant
Small Press Authors and Publishers
display books
FREE
at
BookZen
http://www.bookzen.com
402,900 visitors - 07-01-96 to
07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 20:53:06 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: NYU Beat Confer...
Hey,
thanks for setting me straight on the dates, Gerry!
Jeffrey
WRB
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:44:39 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: women poets - DiPrima poem
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable
>
Sudama Adam Rice wrote:
>=20
>
THE PRACTICE OF MAGICAL EVOCATION
>
Diane DiPrima
>=20
>
The female is fertile, and discipline
>
(contra naturam) only
> confuses her
> =8BGary Snyder
>=20
> I
am a woman and my poems
>
are a woman=B9s: easy to say
>
this. the female is ductile
>
and
> (stroke after stroke)
>
built for masochistic
>
calm. The deadened nerve
> is
part of it:
>
awakened sex, dead retina
>
fish eyes; at hair=B9s root
>
minimal feeling
>=20
>
and pelvic architecture functional
>
assailed inside & out
>
(bring forth) the cunt gets wide
>
and relatively sloppy
>
bring forth men children only
> female
> is
> ductile
>=20
>
woman, a veil thru which the fingering Will
>
twice torn
>
twice torn
> inside & out
>
the flow
>
what rhythm add to stillness
>
what applause?
>=20
> --
>
Adam
Thanks
for posting this! I really liked "female is ductile" theme; it's=20
really
something to think about.
DC=20
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 21:51:29 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Comments on the Estate Battle
In-Reply-To:
<msg1071644.thr-36d2968f.55d4a82@umit.maine.edu>
Mime-Version:
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Before
I comment I should make it clear to the list that I am about as far
from
being a student of the Beats, a beat scholar, or any kind of a scholar
as a
person can get. I've read a little. That reading provided me with
information
about what I believe Jack Keroauc would to do with his
archives.
There's not a beat scholar who doesn't know where JK would have
everything--if
he had it to do over again. The archives would be in a
library
safe, secure sand available to study.
Regarding
the law suits that Gerry Nicosia is pursuing--at the explicit
written
request of Jan Keroauc please remember this:
A victory in the
courts
for Jan Keroauc will be a victory for Jack Kerouac and all Keroauc
students,
teachers, researchers and readers.
Jack
Keroauc wanted his archives available to the public.
Jan
Keroauc wanted his archives safe and available to the public.
Gerry
Nicosia promised Jan Keroauc that he would carry out her wishes. He
is
doing so.
Jan's
request to Gerry is part of her will. Her will was recorded and is
legal.John
Sampas and Jan's ex-husband are trying to get her will changed.
If they
were trying to get lines deleted from one of Jan's books every
writer
in the country would be up in arms. But a writer's will appears to
interest
no one except a few people who were close to her when she died and
a few
others who have much to gain by getting Nicosia removed as Jan's
literary
executor.
After
including the request in her will, and shortly before her death, she
had
Gerry promise that nothing would keep him from fulfilling her requests
to save
her father's archives. I know this because she told me so and Gerry
said it
was true when I asked him. So Gerry is tied to the death-bed
request
of a friend who had been completely abandoned by her ex-husband,
and was
being cheated out of royalties by John Sampas--cheated out of money
she
needed for medical care. She was very much alone and she told me,
"Gerry
Nicosia is the only person I absolutely trust."
As a
result:
Gerry
is being financially hammered at every turn. Again and again, on
Jan's
behalf he is away from family. The fact that he faces financial
problems
because of his promise to Jan has not affected his commitment and
I'm
certain it never will.
.
When
the suits on behalf of Jan are over I believe the locks will come off
all the
Keroauc material, the sale of items from the archives will stop,
and
Jan's wishes (and that reads Jack's wishes) will be fulfilled.
When
all is said and done Gerry MIGHT get his legal expenses covered.
As for
John Sampas' comment that Gerry's
"...poisoned hand will never
touch
the Kerouac archive. His touch is the touch of death." one has only
to read
"Memory Babe: A Critical Biography of Jack Keroauc" to know that
this
remark is a portrait of John Sampas and unrelated to Gerry Nicosia
whose
reputation for research excellence and honesty is established.
j grant
PS: To
the Special Collections librarian where the Memory Babe archive is
housed: The fact that you are not making copies of
the taped interviews
that
are part of that colletion--to insure that the conversations are
preserved--is
a literay outrage. A time will come
when you will have to
justify
the fact that you are not caring for those tapes to the best of
your
ability. How will you answer your fellow preservation librarians when
they
ask? How will your colleagues judge
your lack of action if those
priceless
interviews are lost forever?
Small Press Authors and Publishers
display books
FREE
at
BookZen
http://www.bookzen.com
402,900 visitors - 07-01-96 to
07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 23:22:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Comments on the Estate Battle
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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At
09:51 PM 10/17/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Before
I comment I should make it clear to the list that I am about as far
>from
being a student of the Beats, a beat scholar, or any kind of a scholar
>as
a person can get. I've read a little. That reading provided me with
>information
about what I believe Jack Keroauc would to do with his
>archives.
There's not a beat scholar who doesn't know where JK would have
>everything--if
he had it to do over again. The archives would be in a
>library
safe, secure sand available to study.
>
>More
power to him....
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 23:10:12 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: Comments on the Estate Battle
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
8bit
>PS:
To the Special Collections librarian where the Memory Babe archive
>is
>housed: The fact that you are not making copies of
the taped interviews
>that
are part of that colletion--to insure that the conversations are
>preserved--is
a literay outrage. A time will come
when you will have to
>justify
the fact that you are not caring for those tapes to the best of
>your
ability. How will you answer your fellow preservation librarians
>when
>they
ask? How will your colleagues judge
your lack of action if those
>priceless
interviews are lost forever?
it blows my mind on one hand that someone
who works in this field
can
negelect its precepts so casually. on
the other hand, i've worked
in a
library environment and known many librarians, and the majority of
them
have severe attitude problems and go on frequent power trips, an
odd
trend. it's obviously not a monetary
problem because they're not
even
trying to do anything, at the very least the tapes should be
digitized
and placed on CD and the originals preserved...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 23:16:19 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Lachlan Jobbins
<hipster66@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Ted Morgan
Content-Type:
text/plain
Hi
Mike, hi all,
Ted Morgan wrote an excellent biography of William
S. Burroughs
entitled
LITERARY OUTLAW. Published by Pimlico. ISBN 0712650407. I found
this in
'94 and thoroughly enjoyed it. Highly recommended as an outline
of his
life, perhaps lacking in critical depth but on the whole very
worthwhile
to read. Like what MEMORY BABE did for Kerouac (ie separate
the
human being and writer from the cultural icon), LITERARY OUTLAW is
an
intensely readable account of an incredible life, not an
advertisement.
Enjoy,
Lachlan Jobbins.... Hipster66@hotmail.com
>Ted
Morgan is a journalist who writes biographies.
I
>recall
hearing a mention of his having written one about
>either
Ginsberg or Kerouac. I read a pretty
good one he
>wrote
about Somerset Maughm.
>
>Mike
Rice
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 10:20:49 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
In-Reply-To:
<v03007804b06d720de72d@[156.46.45.149]>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Fri,
17 Oct 1997, jo grant wrote:
>
>
Read Jack's last letter, written to his nephew the day before he died. If
>
you do not have a copy I'll send you one--even tho I have been threaten
>
with law suits by John Sampas over the copy I have.
>
> j
grant
>
>
Yes,
please send me a copy of this letter, I'd be very interested in
readingit. Send it to me privately off the list if you
think its going
tomake
people upset.
Richard
W. (richardw@capaccess.org)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 10:32:38 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Comments on the Estate Battle
In-Reply-To:
<v03007800b06d07bca625@[156.46.45.156]>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
Jan's request to Gerry is part of her will. Her will was recorded and is
>
legal.John Sampas and Jan's ex-husband are trying to get her will changed.
> If
they were trying to get lines deleted from one of Jan's books every
>
writer in the country would be up in arms. But a writer's will appears to
>
interest no one except a few people who were close to her when she died and
> a
few others who have much to gain by getting Nicosia removed as Jan's
>
literary executor.
>
What is
Jan's ex-husband's interest in this?
Why would he care one way
or
another, unless maybe the Sampas family is paying him? Is this what
is
being implied here?
Also I
know from later editionsof OTR that Jan got her name on the
copyrightr
when it was renewed (that must have been another court fight
with
the Sampases I asume) So she must have
benefited finacially from
sales
of OTR the last few years before her death right? If so, it
wouldnt
be fair of the Sampases to portray her as simply being after the
money.
This is
all very interesting indeed!
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 10:41:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Jan Kerouac/Estate battle
Comments:
To: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
In-Reply-To:
<199710180012.RAA16998@sweden.it.earthlink.net>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hey
Gerald, have you ever considered writing a book about Jan Kerouac's
life,
relationship withher father, and this estate battle? This seems
like a
compelling story about a daughter trying to connect with her
father
by fighting to preserve his memory.
Surely there is a terrific
book in
this, maybe when the estate battle finally ends one way or
another?
You
have expressed a strong desire on thislist for people to know the
truth
about what happened andis happening.
Once it isout in book form,
the
truth will always be out there. Hope
you consider it. Im sure
publishers
would jump at the chance to put out this story.
Unless
ofcourse, they are strong-armed by the Sampases (who could
threaten
to exclude publishers from future offerings of Kerouac material
if they
publish a Nicosia book about Jan and the estate battle I 'spose)
Hope
you consider it anyway.
Richard
W.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 10:39:28 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Birthdays and translations
Comments:
To: Hey Joe <hey-joe@gartholamew.solidsolutions.com>,
"jjw-l@io.com"
<jjw-l@io.com>,
Johnny Winter
<jwinter@sicel-home-2-19.urbanet.ch>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
This
isn't exactly on topic, but today is Chuck Berry's 71st birthday.
That
kinda puts rock into perspective. Chuck
has influenced everybody.
On this
same page of the Columbia State, there is a list of bad
translations. Several of them are very good, but the best
is the Pepsi
Slogan,
"Come Alive, You're in the Pepsi Generation." which translated
to
"Pepsi Will Bring Your Ancestors Back From the Dead." Now, that is
something
that a lot of televangelist could use.
Wynton
Marsalis is 36 today as well.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 08:33:45 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jan Williams
<janbill@RICOCHET.NET>
Subject: Re: Birthdays and translations
Comments:
To: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@scsn.net>
Comments:
cc: Hey Joe <hey-joe@www.gartholamew.com>,
"jjw-l@io.com"
<jjw-l@io.com>,
Johnny Winter
<jwinter@sicel-home-2-19.urbanet.ch>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
today
is Chuck Berry's 71st birthday.
Let's
just hope that Johnny can make it way, way past his 71st!
Jan
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 12:09:13 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: archive
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 17 Oct 1997 20:07:45 +0100
from <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
I have
no choice Rinaldo. There's no more
room. If I don't erase older files,
new files will not be archived. Best I can do is back up the archives on a
fl
oppy
disk.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 12:26:29 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Oops!
Sorry,
that last message was meant for Rinaldo.
Well, guess he'll read it on t
he
list.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 12:01:07 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Donald E. Winters"
<winte030@TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Kerouac edtate
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
My
thanks to Jo Grant for very informative comments on Gerry and the Kerouac
estate
battle.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 12:14:59 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Donald E. Winters"
<winte030@TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Jack'l lat letter
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
J.
Grant: I would be very interested in seeing a copy of the letter by Kerouac
on his
death bed. My e-mail address is: winte030@tc.umn.edu Thanks, Donald
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 09:50:42 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Colin Hartridge
<colinh@WIMSEY.COM>
Subject: Re: Birthdays
Comments:
To: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@scsn.net>,
Hey Joe
<hey-joe@www.gartholamew.com>, "jjw-l@io.com"
<jjw-l@io.com>,
Johnny Winter
<jwinter@sicel-home-2-19.urbanet.ch>
In-Reply-To: <3448CA20.4F345BA6@scsn.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
10:39 AM -0400 10/18/97, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
>This
isn't exactly on topic, but today is Chuck Berry's 71st birthday.
>That
kinda puts rock into perspective. Chuck
has influenced everybody.
YIKES!
And Roger Moore is 70! Well, Chuck's not over the hill, but he can
certainly
see the top of it!
Next
month, Jimi Hendrix would have been 55 years old.
Keep on
rockin',
Colin
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Colin
Hartridge (Captain Maniac) | Vancouver,
B.C. Canada
colinh@wimsey.com | "Past the outskirts of infinity"
_________________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 13:20:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marlene Giraud <M84M79@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Jack'l lat letter
i'm
very interested in seeing letter also. is there any way you could post it
to the
list? i'm not sure if you're allowed to do that though. do you know if
this
letter will appear in Anne Charters second edition of JK letters?
~~Marlene
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 12:22:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dana Lee Kober
<dana@SPIDERLINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Birthdays
In-Reply-To:
<l03010d04b06ea708ba1c@[204.191.155.124]>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
James
Dean would be 64
On Sat,
18 Oct 1997, Colin Hartridge wrote:
> At
10:39 AM -0400 10/18/97, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
>
>This isn't exactly on topic, but today is Chuck Berry's 71st birthday.
> >That
kinda puts rock into perspective. Chuck
has influenced everybody.
>
>
YIKES! And Roger Moore is 70! Well, Chuck's not over the hill, but he can
>
certainly see the top of it!
>
>
Next month, Jimi Hendrix would have been 55 years old.
>
>
Keep on rockin',
>
Colin
>
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Colin Hartridge (Captain Maniac) |
Vancouver, B.C. Canada
>
colinh@wimsey.com | "Past the outskirts of infinity"
>
_________________________________________________________________________
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 13:40:03 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jonathan Pickle
<jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>
Subject: Re: Jack'l lat letter
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Me as
well.
Jon(jrpick@maila.wm.edu)
At
12:14 PM 10/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
>J.
Grant: I would be very interested in seeing a copy of the letter by
Kerouac
>on
his death bed. My e-mail address is: winte030@tc.umn.edu Thanks, Donald
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 14:48:11 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
8bit
>>
Read Jack's last letter, written to his nephew the day before he
>died.
If
>>
you do not have a copy I'll send you one--even tho I have been
>threaten
>>
with law suits by John Sampas over the copy I have.
>>
>Yes,
please send me a copy of this letter, I'd be very interested in
>readingit. Send it to me privately off the list if you
think its going
>tomake
people upset.
myself also please, have heard snippits
of it, don't think i've
ever
read whole thing... would be very interested.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 14:58:35 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: Jack'l lat letter
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
8bit
>Jon(jrpick@maila.wm.edu)
>>on
his death bed. My e-mail address is: winte030@tc.umn.edu Thanks,
>Donald
>>.CUNY.EDU
oh yeah, forgot my e-mail: Tyson_Ouellette@umit.maine.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:03:32 UT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
i'd
like VERY much to read this letter as well....
ciao,
sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Tyson Ouellette
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 1997 11:48 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
>>
Read Jack's last letter, written to his nephew the day before he
>died.
If
>>
you do not have a copy I'll send you one--even tho I have been
>threaten
>>
with law suits by John Sampas over the copy I have.
>>
>Yes,
please send me a copy of this letter, I'd be very interested in
>readingit. Send it to me privately off the list if you
think its going
>tomake
people upset.
myself also please, have heard snippits
of it, don't think i've
ever
read whole thing... would be very interested.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 14:33:54 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Birthdays and translations
In-Reply-To: <3448CA20.4F345BA6@scsn.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>This
isn't exactly on topic, but today is Chuck Berry's 71st birthday.
>That
kinda puts rock into perspective. Chuck
has influenced everybody.
Bentz,
Years
ago, in Danville, Chuck would come sailing through and stop to party.
We'd
have to be careful. Those were segregation days, plus the cops watched
him
like a hawk after he ended up getting nailed for taking a minor (who
happened
to look like a 22 years old and and
screwed like she'd studied
yoga
with a grand master in India for five years) across a state line.
Great
guy. Brilliant musician, tough on white guys--altho I am and we got
along
fine.
By the
way did you ever see the video when he was performing with the lead
guitarest
form the Stones--a jam session. Chuck would side up to the guy
and
tell him he was going to change keys. Scared him to death since he had
no
theory training. Chuck was so funny teasing that guy the way he did.
By the
way, I sent a post to the list last night and never received it
back.
Did you see a post from me discussing Gerry Nicosia? I was defending
him
from the beating he was taking at the hands of Sampsa' henchmen.
I'm
concerned that the listmaster may has cut it--even tho I was very
careful
to not be flaming anyone.
joe
Small Press Authors and Publishers display
books
FREE
at
BookZen
http://www.bookzen.com
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07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 14:39:14 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac/Estate battle
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.971018103338.29759C-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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Richard,
I sent
the following post to the list last night and never received a copy.
I'm
wondering if it was not sent out. did you see it? I'd appreciate it if
you'd
let me know.
Thanks
j grant
***
Before
I comment I should make it clear to the list that I am about as far
from
being a student of the Beats, a beat scholar, or any kind of a scholar
as a
person can get. I've read a little. That reading provided me with
information
about what I believe Jack Keroauc would to do with his
archives.
There's not a beat scholar who doesn't know where JK would have
everything--if
he had it to do over again. The archives would be in a
library
safe, secure sand available to study.
Regarding
the law suits that Gerry Nicosia is pursuing--at the explicit
written
request of Jan Keroauc please remember this:
A victory in the
courts
for Jan Keroauc will be a victory for Jack Kerouac and all Keroauc
students,
teachers, researchers and readers.
Jack
Keroauc wanted his archives available to the public.
Jan
Keroauc wanted his archives safe and available to the public.
Gerry
Nicosia promised Jan Keroauc that he would carry out her wishes. He
is
doing so.
Jan's
request to Gerry is part of her will. Her will was recorded and is
legal.John
Sampas and Jan's ex-husband are trying to get her will changed.
If they
were trying to get lines deleted from one of Jan's books every
writer
in the country would be up in arms. But a writer's will appears to
interest
no one except a few people who were close to her when she died and
a few
others who have much to gain by getting Nicosia removed as Jan's
literary
executor.
After
including the request in her will, and shortly before her death, she
had
Gerry promise that nothing would keep him from fulfilling her requests
to save
her father's archives. I know this because she told me so and Gerry
said it
was true when I asked him. So Gerry is tied to the death-bed
request
of a friend who had been completely abandoned by her ex-husband,
and was
being cheated out of royalties by John Sampas--cheated out of money
she
needed for medical care. She was very much alone and she told me,
"Gerry
Nicosia is the only person I absolutely trust."
As a
result:
Gerry
is being financially hammered at every turn. Again and again, on
Jan's
behalf he is away from family. The fact that he faces financial
problems
because of his promise to Jan has not affected his commitment and
I'm
certain it never will.
.
When
the suits on behalf of Jan are over I believe the locks will come off
all the
Keroauc material, the sale of items from the archives will stop,
and
Jan's wishes (and that reads Jack's wishes) will be fulfilled.
When
all is said and done Gerry MIGHT get his legal expenses covered.
As for
John Sampas' comment that Gerry's
"...poisoned hand will never
touch the
Kerouac archive. His touch is the touch of death." one has only
to read
"Memory Babe: A Critical Biography of Jack Keroauc" to know that
this
remark is a portrait of John Sampas and unrelated to Gerry Nicosia
whose
reputation for research excellence and honesty is established.
j grant
PS: To
the Special Collections librarian where the Memory Babe archive is
housed: The fact that you are not making copies of
the taped interviews
that
are part of that colletion--to insure that the conversations are
preserved--is
a literay outrage. A time will come
when you will have to
justify
the fact that you are not caring for those tapes to the best of
your
ability. How will you answer your fellow preservation librarians when
they
ask? How will your colleagues judge
your lack of action if those
priceless
interviews are lost forever?
****
>Hey
Gerald, have you ever considered writing a book about Jan Kerouac's
>life,
relationship withher father, and this estate battle? This seems
>like
a compelling story about a daughter trying to connect with her
>father
by fighting to preserve his memory.
Surely there is a terrific
>book
in this, maybe when the estate battle finally ends one way or
>another?
>
>You
have expressed a strong desire on thislist for people to know the
>truth
about what happened andis happening.
Once it isout in book form,
>the
truth will always be out there. Hope
you consider it. Im sure
>publishers
would jump at the chance to put out this story.
>
>Unless
ofcourse, they are strong-armed by the Sampases (who could
>threaten
to exclude publishers from future offerings of Kerouac material
>if
they publish a Nicosia book about Jan and the estate battle I 'spose)
>
>Hope
you consider it anyway.
>
>Richard
W.
Small Press Authors and Publishers display books
FREE
at
BookZen
http://www.bookzen.com
402,900 visitors - 07-01-96 to
07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:08:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: First_Name Last_Name
<Kindlesan@AOL.COM>
Subject: beat
hi......
i'm an
eighteen year-old college student just introduced to the world of jack
kerouac
and the beat genre........
it's
been truly interesting to listen to these feuds about jack's estate and
all,
each side of the "debate", such and such.......but.......
since
people like me, and i am sure there are more like me, are not too in
tune
with the whole beat atmosphere; perhaps as a couple of side e-mails
people
could take off of these bloodbaths against each other and get back to
the
heart of the literature...
i, for
one, would be interested in knowing everybody's favorite beat books,
songs,
quotations, etc........the lit. itself, the authors
themselves.........it's
obvious that a good deal of people attached to this
mailing
list are more knowledgeable than i am, so it'd be nice to hear
feedback
from all of you......
some
questions i would like to ask Each of you:
what
draws you to this genre?
what is
so important about it? in the role of america or the world?
where
is it headed, if anywhere?
how
have these authors and poets impacted your lives?
etc.....etc.......the
trivial things that are the most important
sometimes........otherwise,
the legal mumbo jumbo will get old unless
balanced
with another topic....
brian
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 14:07:12 -0700
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Sherri
wrote:
>
>
i'd like VERY much to read this letter as well....
>
>
ciao,
>
sherri
>
Me too
as well!
Adrien
vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:30:21 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
Comments:
To: Adrien Begrand <vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca>
In-Reply-To: <344924FF.76DF@sk.sympatico.ca>
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We dont
want to get anone (Bill Gargan etc) associated with the beat list
sued
though. I take it that the Sampas
family has threatened to sue the
Beat-L
list moderators or organizers in the past for inappropriate postings?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:24:29 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Jonathan Pickle
<jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>
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brian,
I guess you're venturing into the deep seas of the Beats like a lot
of
other college sts. I've met.
OTR, I
believe has been the highest selling book in mass quantity sold on
college
campuses for the past seven years.
Strange to go to fellow
dormmates
rooms and have them tell me that they've "found" JK and that they
think I
should try him. That's when I usually
take them upstairs and show
them
the complete collection of works that I have - circa 29 books by JK
alone.
But,
what do I think attracts me to the lit.
OH -
big question. Probably because I
identify with much of the Beat
spirit
concerning life. - That's my cliff's notes answer.
I think
a better question is why were you drawn to it.
Why do you feel
that
the youth of today are finding solace in JK and AG and WSB and the
others?
Jon
PS- as
far as quotes go. I can't pick. I've got about a hundred from OTR
alone.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 15:36:00 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Comments on the Estate Battle
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.971018102331.29759B-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>
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>>
Jan's request to Gerry is part of her will. Her will was recorded and is
>>
legal.John Sampas and Jan's ex-husband are trying to get her will changed.
>>
If they were trying to get lines deleted from one of Jan's books every
>>
writer in the country would be up in arms. But a writer's will appears to
>>
interest no one except a few people who were close to her when she died and
>>
a few others who have much to gain by getting Nicosia removed as Jan's
>>
literary executor.
>>
>
>What
is Jan's ex-husband's interest in this?
Why would he care one way
>or
another, unless maybe the Sampas family is paying him? Is this what
>is
being implied here?
>
>Also
I know from later editionsof OTR that Jan got her name on the
>copyrightr
when it was renewed (that must have been another court fight
>with
the Sampases I asume) So she must have
benefited finacially from
>sales
of OTR the last few years before her death right? If so, it
>wouldnt
be fair of the Sampases to portray her as simply being after the
>money.
>
>This
is all very interesting indeed!
Actually
Jan treated he ex very wellin her will. He will receive her
royalties
which will provide him with around $50 thou a year. Seems like a
lot,
but for Jan, with her medical problems, it was very little.
Her ex,
with help from John Sampas, is trying to get Gerry Nicosia removed
as
Jan's lierary executor. They want him out because he is pursuing the law
suit in
St. Pete, FL which will probably prove that Memere's signature on
the
will that left everything ot Stella, was forged.
Government
handwriting experts say the signature is not memere's.
The
fellow who signed the will as the witness to Memere's signing has
admitted
that he did not see her sign the will. Was told she had by John
Sampas.
If the
suit in Florida is successful, the keroauc colletion wil go into a
major
library--probably NY Public of UC Berkeley. Both are wiling to pay a
mil for
the collection. This would leave, Jack's nephew, the Sampas segment
(unless
the forgery turns into a criminal charge), and jan's ex, John Lash,
with a
substantial piece of the sale price. enpough for everyone to be
happy,
UNLESS you're sitting on it all and want it all.
I'l get
a copy of the letter ready.
I'll
include notes that Gerry Nicosia made when I first sought information
on it.
j grant
Small Press Authors and Publishers
display books
FREE
at
BookZen
http://www.bookzen.com
402,900 visitors - 07-01-96 to
07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 17:04:10 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "Jon B. Pearlstone"
<THYE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Letter
Add my
name to the growing list of people who would like to see the Kerouac
Letter
from the day before he died. Boy, there
sure are a lot of
disinterested
people interested in the estate battle (I'm one of them--keep
talking).
Jon
Pearlstone
E-Mail THYE@AOL.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 15:56:13 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: more of patricia's poetry
MIME-Version:
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jack
at the
democratic confention he only saw the lip of the bottle,
if he
looked up it was with a surly glance.
wsb
No one
asked, well other than that day
how did
you two get along?
towels new mexico
one
day, william beckons.
says,
here, these were joans,
you
take them.
Evie
had them, gave them back to me.
two
striped towels.
they
were nice towels, good thread count, stripes,
somehow
southwestern, hopi.
sometimes
he would mention her to me,
as a
person, not as an event.
never
in company.
once
when wayne was going to
use one
of williams' canes and leap backwards,
william
yells, nonononononoo
then
explains that was how his father died.
He
punctuated my life with his surprising kindness.
He
would walk across the room
fletch
would zig zag between his legs,
they
would both be surprised when william would tread on him,
fletch
screaching, william dancing suddenly,
graceful
for only that moment.
the
corpse
is the
unblemished cheek,
only
fatique prepares us,
the
true grimace is the one of living.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 17:08:03 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: First_Name Last_Name
<Kindlesan@AOL.COM>
Subject: what OTR means to my ignorant self
In a
message dated 97-10-18 16:28:05 EDT, you write:
<<
brian, I guess you're venturing into the deep seas of the Beats like a lot
of other college sts. I've met.
OTR, I believe has been the highest selling
book in mass quantity sold on
college campuses for the past seven years.
yes.......i
knew about the book previously, had never read it......but my
contemporary
lit. professor introduced us to it.....along with the other beat
staple
"howl".........the only other "beat" book i have is
"some of the
dharma"
and i just did get the cd "kicks joy darkness'......
I think a better question is why were you
drawn to it. Why do you feel
that the youth of today are finding solace in
JK and AG and WSB and the
others >>
the
youth of the day i do not know if i can speak for......a lot of the youth
my age
aren't too totally concerned with jk, or ag, or wsb......their
interests
are more and more, if anything, focused away from
literature......in
high school, for example, i was hard-pressed to find
friends
who would read literature outside of class.......but i am one person,
in one
dinky town, in one college, who has never moved, so it is terribly
hard
for me to overgeneralize my age group........i can only speak for
myself......and
this reason being, i've been a natural cynic of what little i
have in
contact with american society......(because i do have little
experience
with the world in general, it's a safe assumption i am Ignorant,
so bear
with my thoughts)......i'm upset with the notions of what my youth is
expected
to be by older generations..and then what they make of us.......and
i'm
sick of titles and overgeneralizations over who i am, or what i
represent......i
do not know any of these things.....nor sometimes do i truly
care........i've
always felt like i belonged elsewhere, with people more like
myself(who
seem limited in scope), almost anachronistic in a way.......in
ways i
feel cyncial towards how society, at least american, is set-up,no
matter
how Good I have it(i can not once complain about my life, it's been
all
too perfect, but in a way, that's one
of the problems)........i'm
cynical
towards older generations(not all people fit the same mold though),
as well
as a good deal of the people my age......then i read OTR......and
another
world opens up.......and people in the novel begin to correlate with
people
i know and that i am friends with........and it seems as though
everything
we thought and said in high school and even now(still in our
ignorance
mind you)........are shadows of what OTR stands for........so much
of the
cassady/moriarty character i saw in one of my best friends, my other
best
friend i saw what paradise and all the rest were trying to
avoid.......and
in kerouac, at least in this novel, it appeared as though i
found a
tangible voice to the mounting frustrations i've been having with my
perceived
american microcosm..........
brian
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 17:16:03 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Michael Czarnecki
<peent@SERVTECH.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Letter
Mime-Version:
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>Add
my name to the growing list of people who would like to see the Kerouac
>Letter
from the day before he died. Boy, there
sure are a lot of
>disinterested
people interested in the estate battle (I'm one of them--keep
>talking).
>
>Jon
Pearlstone
>
>E-Mail THYE@AOL.com
Please
add me to the letter list too, though I feel a little like I
shouldn't
be taking up list space just to say that but don't want to miss
out on
it either.
peent@servtech.com
(Michael Czarnecki)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 15:15:44 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "MYLES A. HASELHORST"
<hase8846@BLUE.UNCO.EDU>
Subject: The First Third
In-Reply-To:
<971018160555_1767934263@emout04.mail.aol.com>
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Just
the other day I bought a copy of "The First Third" at this used book
store
on Broadway in Denver. The cool thing is that later that day and the
night
prior, I had been walking around down town; up and down Larimer
street.
It's cool standing there knowing that Neal Cassady ran up and down
those
streets as a little kid.
Anyway, I was just curious to hear
some other peoples thoughts and
feelings
on the book: in particular, the letter to Ken Kesey. Also, have
any of
you read "The Electric Koolaid Acid Test?" In relation to this
book,
who knows some info. on the latter years of Neal Cassady's life?
Myles.
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