=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:00:55 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or Just a Few?

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

 The Kerouac Quarterly contacted the estate for a comment on Gerald

Nicosia's posting.The below comment is from John Sampas, Executor of the

Estate of Jack and Stella Kerouac -

 

" Gerald Nicosia's poisoned hand will never touch the Kerouac archive. His

touch is the touch of death."

 

 

   http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.com

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:50:45 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         ANNE ELIZABETH SNEDDON <sneddon@NEVADA.EDU>

Subject:      Re: burroughsian scholars?

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.OSF.3.91.971015003316.13313A-100000@turbo.kean.edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Jason, what do you think is going to happen when the movie of "On the

Road" is released? American popular culture is such that it embraces only

the superficialities and discards the rest.  Remember when "The Doors"

movie was released and every little kid searching for an identity became

an instant Doors fanatic? And what about this instant acceptance by MTV of

Punk Rock a la Green Dan and Offspring--rebellion without all those

annoying "political lyrics." I predict that a wave of berets and black

turtlenecks will hit the shopping malls as soon as that movie comes out.

cynically yours ;>

Anne Sneddon

 

 

On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, PoOka(the friendly ghost) wrote:

 

> Is there such a think as a "burroughsian scholar", one who researches and

> analyses all of Bill's work? If so, this person would have libraries full

> of information based on books, letters and essays that Bill has written

> over the years. It seems that Bill has left us with an eternal supply of

> information and creativity.

>         oh here's a horrible thought: what if a 90s beat film was made

> and corporate america actually embraced such a thing? could you fathom a

> Kerouac "Happy-meal" or a Ginsberg action figure?

>                                         -some humor....

>                                                         jason

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:20:06 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      archive

 

The disk that holds the archive for Beat-l is full.   As a result, Fred

Bogin and I will have to do something to free disk space.  Our plan is

to download all 1995 files and to erase them from the online archive.  I

will work on editing the downloaded files and restore those threads that

I think have archival importance at a later date.  If anyone has any

interest in keeping all postings to Beat-l for whatever mad reason, now

would be a good time download those files to your hard drive.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:46:06 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or Just a Few?

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 05:00 PM 10/15/97 -0400, you wrote:

> The Kerouac Quarterly contacted the estate for a comment on Gerald

>Nicosia's posting.The below comment is from John Sampas, Executor of the

>Estate of Jack and Stella Kerouac -

>

>" Gerald Nicosia's poisoned hand will never touch the Kerouac archive. His

>touch is the touch of death."

>

 

 

This response makes me think psychos are running the archive.

 

This is crazy talk.

 

Why don't they act rationally and say they disagree with Nicosia because

this this and this or something rather than psychotic rambling about the

touch of death.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:47:37 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: Paul Maher of the Libel Quarterly

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 05:00 PM 10/15/97 -0400, you wrote:

> The Kerouac Quarterly contacted the estate for a comment on Gerald

>Nicosia's posting.The below comment is from John Sampas, Executor of the

>Estate of Jack and Stella Kerouac -

>

>" Gerald Nicosia's poisoned hand will never touch the Kerouac archive. His

>touch is the touch of death."

>

                        Oct 15, 1997

Paul,

        As someone who was banned from this list previously for making

libelous statements, you are coming perilously close to libel once again.

If Mr. Sampas indeed made this statement, why can't he log on to the

Beat-List himself and announce his opinion in his own voice?  If, however,

you are simply making up curses for him, then I believe you are indeed

committing libel against me.

        Gerald Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:01:13 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: archive

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 05:20 PM 10/15/97 EDT, you wrote:

>The disk that holds the archive for Beat-l is full.   As a result, Fred

>Bogin and I will have to do something to free disk space.  Our plan is

>to download all 1995 files and to erase them from the online archive.  I

>will work on editing the downloaded files and restore those threads that

>I think have archival importance at a later date.  If anyone has any

>interest in keeping all postings to Beat-l for whatever mad reason, now

>would be a good time download those files to your hard drive.

>

>

 

how do we access the beat archive?

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:04:47 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Donald E. Winters" <winte030@TC.UMN.EDU>

Subject:      Ferlinghetti record?

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I am writing this because (1) I'm not getting responses when i send queries to

the other address.  I have been asking again and again if anyone knows where I

can find  the recording (to jazz accompanyment) of Ferlinghetti reading "Coney

Island of the Mind."  I have been unable to find it anywhere.  My e-mail address

is as follows; winte030@tc.umn.edu     I have also received a response about

what peoples' opinion is about why the poem "America" says, in the first

published edition, "when will you be worthy of your million trotskyites" and in

his first reading: "when will you be wothy of your million Christs." What's

up?-- Donald Winters

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:04:55 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sean Young <syoung@DSW.COM>

Subject:      Re[2]: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or Just a Few?

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     Too sad, too sad. It would be great if this could be discussed in a

     more "beatific" manner. Something that shows compassion for Jack's

     legacy. This legacy is not only "material". It is so much more.

 

     Sean D. Young

 

 

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________

Subject: Re: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or Just a Few?

Author:  "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> at Internet

Date:    10/15/97 5:00 PM

 

 

 The Kerouac Quarterly contacted the estate for a comment on Gerald

Nicosia's posting.The below comment is from John Sampas, Executor of the

Estate of Jack and Stella Kerouac -

 

" Gerald Nicosia's poisoned hand will never touch the Kerouac archive. His

touch is the touch of death."

 

 

   http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.com

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:10:22 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Donald E. Winters" <winte030@TC.UMN.EDU>

Subject:      To Gerald Nicosia

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Good luck. I'm with you.  Donald Winters

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:11:36 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or Just a Few?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Sean Young wrote:

>

>      Too sad, too sad. It would be great if this could be discussed in a

>      more "beatific" manner.

 

-OR-

 

"here we go again!"

 

dbr

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:31:12 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Matthew S Sackmann <msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>

Subject:      Re: burroughsian scholars?

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.OSF.3.91.971015003316.13313A-100000@turbo.kean.edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, PoOka(the friendly ghost) wrote:

 

> Is there such a think as a "burroughsian scholar", one who researches and

> analyses all of Bill's work? If so, this person would have libraries full

> of information based on books, letters and essays that Bill has written

> over the years. It seems that Bill has left us with an eternal supply of

> information and creativity.

>         oh here's a horrible thought: what if a 90s beat film was made

> and corporate america actually embraced such a thing? could you fathom a

> Kerouac "Happy-meal" or a Ginsberg action figure?

>                                         -some humor....

>                                                         jason

>

 

WOW...I think a Kerouac "Happy-Meal" would be wonderful!

 

And the toy would be a little bottle of port wine (my friend Alison says

as she reads over my shoulder)

 

and a Ginsberg action figure, i think we're really on to something here.

Im gonna buy the car that comes with all three!  Jack and Neal and Allen.

 

(My friend Alison says that somethings are just dumb)

 

And Neal comes with hammer-flipping action.  And Ginsberg has a string up

his ass--when you pull it he says, "I saw the best minds..."

And Jack has bottle drinking action.  Put anything in his hand and watch

it dissapear.

 

Then there's bill burroughs and if you're really cool (and your parents

got dough) you'll get the Marijuana farm.

 

HA, this is great.

 

my new life objective is to make beat action figures.

 

-matt

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 18:37:31 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jonathan Pickle <jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Ferlinghetti record?

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Might Allen be talking, synonomously?  Just a thought.

 

Jon

 

At 05:04 PM 10/15/97 -0500, you wrote:

>I am writing this because (1) I'm not getting responses when i send

queries to

>the other address.  I have been asking again and again if anyone knows

where I

>can find  the recording (to jazz accompanyment) of Ferlinghetti reading

"Coney

>Island of the Mind."  I have been unable to find it anywhere.  My e-mail

address

>is as follows; winte030@tc.umn.edu     I have also received a response about

>what peoples' opinion is about why the poem "America" says, in the first

>published edition, "when will you be worthy of your million trotskyites"

and in

>his first reading: "when will you be wothy of your million Christs." What's

>up?-- Donald Winters

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:48:54 -0700

Reply-To:     "Michael R. Brown" <foosi@global.california.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael R. Brown" <foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>

Subject:      Re: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or Just a Few?

In-Reply-To:  <1.5.4.32.19971015210055.006902bc@pop.pipeline.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Paul A. Maher Jr. wrote:

 

>  The Kerouac Quarterly contacted the estate for a comment on Gerald

> Nicosia's posting.The below comment is from John Sampas, Executor of the

> Estate of Jack and Stella Kerouac -

 

> "Gerald Nicosia's poisoned hand will never touch the Kerouac archive.

> His touch is the touch of death."

 

That's interesting. Whose heavy hand is resting upon the archives right

now? It is not Gerald Nicosia's.

 

(And Nicosia evinced no designs upon the archive. He suggested it be put

under stewardship at a scholarly institution by mutual agreement. Is

the idea that in order to prevent the purpotedly fatal Nicosia touch upon

a single piece of the Kerouac opera, the archive shall be open to _none_?)

 

The closed first or the open palm ... which is better here? You decide.

 

 

 

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

  Michael R. Brown                        foosi@global.california.com

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

 

                     "Why can't it just be, Michael?"

 

           Simunye, in conversation with Foosi, September 1997

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:07:04 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael R. Brown" <foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>

Subject:      Re: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or Just a Few?

In-Reply-To:  <199710152146.OAA26632@hsc.usc.edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:

 

> This response makes me think psychos are running the archive.

 

The Hungarian piano virtuoso Ervin Nyiregyhazi (1903-1987), pupil of one

of Liszt's pupils, in his prime probably on a par with Vladimir Horowitz,

composed more than 700 pieces of music that were left unpublished in

manuscript upon his death. Will we ever get to know what these works

were like? Not until Nyiregyhazi's exector dies, most likely, becase she -

N's *tenth* wife - and her new husband are said to hate Nyiregyhazi's

memory and just want the whole thing forgotten.

 

Wilhelm Reich. Brilliant, crazy, brilliant. Strong influence on Burroughs

and Ginsberg. His will was worded ambiguously re. putting his private

papers in storage for fifty years so history could not be falsified. His

executor interprets will to mean no one shall have any access

whatsoever - including sympathetic scholars. We will have to wait until,

what, 2008, to read his private writings.

 

Mary MacLane (1881-1929 - COMMERCIAL WARNING: I published an anthology

of her work in 1994). Talented, eccentric, bisexual, wrote about it at

age 19 in 1901 and got it published. Mentioned by Peters and Ferlinghetti

in _Literary San Francisco_ book. Wrote and starred in own silent movie

1918 _Men Who Have Made Love to Me_. Last ten years of her life a mystery.

Apparently died intestate - family sequestering letters she wrote during

last 10 years of her life. Will we ever know what she did 1919-1929?

Probably not.

 

Anyone see a pattern?&D{l^

 

 

t works > This is crazy talk. >

> Why don't they act rationally and say they disagree with Nicosia because

> this this and this or something rather than psychotic rambling about the

> touch of death.

>

 

 

 

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

  Michael R. Brown                        foosi@global.california.com

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

 

                     "Why can't it just be, Michael?"

 

           Simunye, in conversation with Foosi, September 1997

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 19:27:20 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Paul Maher of the Libel Quarterly

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

I was officiating as a spokesperson for The Kerouac Quarterly and not John

Sampas. Nor do I take a biased stand upon this situation. Should John Sampas

had posted and Gerald Nicosia had made a comment to me about it, I would

have posted it verbatim by his wishes. Interpret this message as you will, I

am commiting no libel in performingthis action. Please contact John Sampas

to verify this, his number islisted. Paul...

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:12:12 -0700

Reply-To:     "Michael R. Brown" <foosi@global.california.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael R. Brown" <foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>

Subject:      Re: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or Just a Few?

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.BSI.3.95.971015154910.20048G-100000@global.california.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Michael R. Brown wrote:

 

> Anyone see a pattern?&D{l^

 

Ooops. Line noise made email send too soon.

 

Anyone see a pattern? Executors hanging on for dear life to creative

remains. Sad.

 

"Seeking life, I found aught but death. T'was only when I sought death

that I found life."

                        - that guy Burroughs called the Bard,

                          quoted from memory

 

 

 

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

  Michael R. Brown                        foosi@global.california.com

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

 

                     "Why can't it just be, Michael?"

 

           Simunye, in conversation with Foosi, September 1997

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 18:52:05 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Matthew S Sackmann <msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>

Subject:      Re: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or Just a Few?

Comments: To: "Michael R. Brown" <foosi@global.california.com>

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.BSI.3.95.971015153137.20048F-100000@global.california.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

>

> > "Gerald Nicosia's poisoned hand will never touch the Kerouac archive.

> > His touch is the touch of death."

 

"Life is suffering, it ends when you're dead."

        -AG

 

And we all know that Jack knew that true perfection would never be

reached until death.  He felt so bad that he brought a perfect soul into

this imperfect world that he would not accept her.  He didn't want to

acknowledge his own imperfections through the existence of a child.

I'd take that as a comment, Gerald.

 

        kind of serious kind of not,

                                        matt

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:57:51 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael R. Brown" <foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>

Subject:      Re: archive

In-Reply-To:  <199710152201.PAA29730@hsc.usc.edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:

 

> how do we access the beat archive?

 

You wouldn't be wanting to inflict the touch of death upon it, now would

you?

 

 

 

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

  Michael R. Brown                        foosi@global.california.com

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

 

                     "Why can't it just be, Michael?"

 

           Simunye, in conversation with Foosi, September 1997

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:00:58 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael R. Brown" <foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>

Subject:      Re: Re[2]: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or Just a Few?

In-Reply-To:  <4453DE00.1326@dsw.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Sean Young wrote:

 

>      Too sad, too sad. It would be great if this could be discussed in a

>      more "beatific" manner. Something that shows compassion for Jack's

>      legacy. This legacy is not only "material". It is so much more.

 

Wasn't there some physicist named Einstein who showed that matter and

energy were not separate? Artists and new-bell-bottomed-Gen-X-lovely-kids

know it, Bach knew it, but it's not yet percolated down to literary

executors.

 

 

 

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

  Michael R. Brown                        foosi@global.california.com

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

 

                     "Why can't it just be, Michael?"

 

           Simunye, in conversation with Foosi, September 1997

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:03:58 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      civil discourse

 

Please everyone, let's keep a cool head when we discuss the estate.  No

name calling or accusations!  If you want to make a point, please do so

graciously and with civility or don't do it on this list.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:41:54 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: civil discourse

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 08:03 PM 10/15/97 EDT, you wrote:

>Please everyone, let's keep a cool head when we discuss the estate.  No

>name calling or accusations!  If you want to make a point, please do so

>graciously and with civility or don't do it on this list.

>

Agreed. I have been caught under fire with this before. Everyone is free to

interpret the estate's comment at their own free will. I myself cannot

conclude nor agree with this comment. What I do know is that many of the

projects for the Kerouac "legacy" are put on hold until the termination or

settlement of this lawsuit. I know there are enough things to release and

again, most of the archives are indeed available. The abundance of

submissions I receive for the quarterly is evidence enough of the people who

are actually using them. When, not if, the details of this lawsuit are

settled, you will see many things happening with the archives. I personally

think that any person will be hard-pressed to produce evidence of the

archives being under neglect, abandon, abuse, or responsive to the demands

of the public at large. The Hemingway Estate and the Faulkner Estate, and

even the Thoreau Estate still haven't produced the complete archives to the

public. It is just a fact of life you have to live with. Has everyone even

fully digested Some of the Dharma yet? For Mr. Nicosia to callmy quarterly

the "Libel Quarterly" is a feeble attempt to raise a libelous comment from

me. Good Luck. I am still waiting for the FBI....Paul of The Kerouac

Quarterly...

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:23:36 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         ncary <ncary@CLARK.NET>

Subject:      Re: burroughsian scholars?

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.A32.3.94.971015171808.68070A-100000@spnode03.tcs.tulane.edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Hi folks,

 

Regarding Burrough scholars, there is a new book on Burroughs scheduled

for January 1998 and

yes in the

works before his death. Though I guess the author might hold it back for

some revising.

 

It is called Wising Up the Marks: The Amodern William Burroughs by Timothy

S. Murphy at UCLA. The U of Cal Press is publisher. Scheduled as $45

cloth, $17.95 pb.

 

The desc says Murphy draws on such folks as Adorno, Sartre, Guattari,

and Deleuze....and it describes WSB as "a writer who combines aesthetics

and politics and who can perform as anthropologist, social goad, or media

icon, al with consummate skill"

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:52:23 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Denver

MIME-Version: 1.0

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While I suspect that the Denver stuff is in jest, and as much as his

"image" was kinda yucky sacherine (sp) type of thing, he did write some

good songs.  The one mentioned about passing the pipe around was a very

good song.  Rocky Mountain High was about being in an altered state to

watch a meterorite shower in the Rockies.  And, like it or not, Country

Roads hit an archetype (sp) dead on.  I can only remember two more of

his songs, Grandma's Feather Bed, which was quite good, and the other

was the easy to dislike thing about Fill Me Again.

 

I believe he started out as a true folkie and did a time with the New

Christy Minstrels. I also do not think that his image and he were the

same.  After all, he sang about getting high and was popped more than

once of DWI/DUI.

 

But beat, well, I don't think that was a serious question, was it?

 

:-)

 

BTW, I traded my John Denver songbook for a Jethro Tull song book.  I

came out on top.

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 00:53:37 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: civil discourse

 

Thanks Bill, a DISCUSSION of the matter might be useful and result in

something constructive; otherewise, we get nowhere.

 

ciao,

sherri

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Bill Gargan

Sent:   Wednesday, October 15, 1997 5:03 PM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        civil discourse

 

Please everyone, let's keep a cool head when we discuss the estate.  No

name calling or accusations!  If you want to make a point, please do so

graciously and with civility or don't do it on this list.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:58:23 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or Just a Few?

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Paul A. Maher Jr. wrote:

 

>  The Kerouac Quarterly contacted the estate for a comment on Gerald

> Nicosia's posting.The below comment is from John Sampas, Executor of

> the

> Estate of Jack and Stella Kerouac -

>

> " Gerald Nicosia's poisoned hand will never touch the Kerouac archive.

> His

> touch is the touch of death."

>

 

Paul:

 

I guess you can post what you wish, but I don't see why these old wounds

keep getting reopened.  If Sampas wants to comment on something, tell

him to come on list.  As for me, I was glad to see this old thread die

and hope it stays dead.  I don't see how this advances discussions of

Beat-L, but maybe others feel differently.

 

Thanks,

 

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:00:47 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Well, if only

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Well, if only I had made it a few more posts, I would have seen you got

there first.  Funny that I said kinda the same thing about Sampas

showing his own self.

 

Take care,

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:48:46 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or Just a Few?

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>Paul:

>

>I guess you can post what you wish, but I don't see why these old wounds

>keep getting reopened.  If Sampas wants to comment on something, tell

>him to come on list.  As for me, I was glad to see this old thread die

>and hope it stays dead.  I don't see how this advances discussions of

>Beat-L, but maybe others feel differently.

>

I don't think it reopened anything. It is a fact of life in the world of

litigation and copyright. If this is what the Estate has to say isn't anyone

curious to hear it voiced? Or....hidden. I am officiating as a contributor

to the Beat-L as I have many times in the past. I live in close proximity to

the Estae. I simply call, like any one of you can (1-978-458-2708), the

Estate and ask quite frankly what's up? I am curious. Do you want me to keep

it to my self in the future? How do you know he isn't on the list one way or

the other? I can still sleep at night no matter what anybody says, no wounds

are ever opened. I thought we were all adults here, perhaps you only are

satisfied with falsehoods or propaganda instead of the truth. If that is the

case then so be it...my truths and discoveries will find their place in the

quarterly, which, far from being libelous in any degree is fast becoming

respected in the academic community. Thanks for reading, Paul of TKQ. . .

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:01:12 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or Just a Few?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

>>  The Kerouac Quarterly contacted the estate for a comment on Gerald

>> Nicosia's posting.The below comment is from John Sampas, Executor of

>> the

>> Estate of Jack and Stella Kerouac -

>>

>> " Gerald Nicosia's poisoned hand will never touch the Kerouac archive.

>> His touch is the touch of death."

 

     first of all, glad to be back on the list, i see that, after a

year, the same threads are stil strong, interesting..  I just finished

Memory Babe and all I can say is wow.  Any biographical info I read

from here on is going to be redundant.  my hat off to Mr. Nicosia for

beautiful piece of work.  as for mr. sampas' comment, well, all of this

crap seems to be steeped in the same garbage.  everyone knows Jacks's

wishes concerning his archives, and for anyone involved in the

preservation of those archives to subvert his desire in any way is only

serving their own pathetic desires.  i mean, how hard is it to

understand?  if Jack wanted it, then relinquish the stuff to everyone

who loves him and his work.  make it available, in libraries, on the

internet, free.. the beauty of the written word is it's infinite

reproducibility.  i don't necessarily agree with making the originals

accessible to anybody who walks in off the street... but at the same

time you can't hoard them.  Many of you are sick of this discussion,

but the fact remains that the incessant bullshit continues... it's just

incomprhensibly annoying.  what the hell was Ginsberg doing when he

dismissed Jan's crusade in her father's name as insignificant? i

dunno... just seems a lot more complicated than it really needs to

be....

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:18:03 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>

Subject:      Re: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or Just a Few?

In-Reply-To:  <344566AF.5C3F2530@scsn.net> from "R. Bentz Kirby" at Oct 15,

              97 08:58:23 pm

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Bentz wrote:

> I guess you can post what you wish, but I don't see why these old wounds

> keep getting reopened.  If Sampas wants to comment on something, tell

> him to come on list.  As for me, I was glad to see this old thread die

> and hope it stays dead.  I don't see how this advances discussions of

> Beat-L, but maybe others feel differently.

 

I agree -- the last time we discussed the Kerouac estate a lot of

people ended up acting like real jerks.  Just please let's not

get back into "You started it" "No you started it" "No *you*

started it" "No *he* started it".  And please, anybody who's

posting about the Kerouac estate -- if you're posting more

than once a day, you're getting too emotional.

 

Over and out ...

 

------------------------------------------------------

| Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com                   |

|                                                    |

|    Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |

|     (the beat literature web site)                 |

|                                                    |

|        "Coffeehouse: Writings from the Web"        |

|          (a real book, like on paper)              |

|             also at http://coffeehousebook.com     |

|                                                    |

|              *---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---* |

|                                                    |

|                Mister, I ain't a boy, no I'm a man |

------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:30:56 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

     does anyone on the list have any videos of Jack?  interviews,

etc.? they'd be willing to copy for me, or trade for copies of whatever

I might have that they'd be interested in?  very interested in seeing

Jack on video.  Is there a bootleg market for rare Kerouac recordings?

are there rare Kerouac recordings in circ?  anyone with knowledge in

this area please offer your insight. thanks.

     also, what exactly is availble to the public for research in the

places where archival stuff is stored, if any at all?  like in a new

york library? has that all been put on hold till the suits are resolved?

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:53:38 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject:      Beat-l a fact only.

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

"I would like to see a Kerouac committee in Lowell, for instance, that does

not simply organize presentations that please Mr. Sampas.  I feel it was a

disgrace again, at Kerouac week this year, that not a single mention was

made of Jan Kerouac's death, no form of tribute, either in photos, readings

of her work, spoken memories of her, was given--DESPITE THE FACT THAT JAN'S

REMAINS WERE BURIED IN NEARBY NASHUA, NEW HAMPSHIRE, ONLY FOUR MONTHS

BEFORE, on June 5, 1997." - Gerry Nicosia

 

Last year at our (LCK) main event at the Smith Baker Center Ed Sanders paid

a nice tribute to Jan Kerouac with John, Tony and Jim Sampas sitting in the

audience watching the show. Bill Gargan our list administrator was there

and can verify this. This year at the mass for Jack and Stella we were all

asked to pray for the soul of Jan Kerouac and I heard both Tony and John

Sampas voice distinctly say "Lord hear our prayer" along with the rest of

the people attending the service. It was a prominent Kerouac committee

member who mentioned Jan and asked the congregation to pray for her soul.

If you don't believe this Gerry you can call father Gallager at St. Louis

de France church in Lowell and ask him. Gerry you weren't there at either

time so you don't know what happened and you try to get the beat-l group

against Lowell Celebrates Kerouac committee for some personal vendetta. We

are a group of all volunteers with basically no money to speak of. We all

work very hard to put this on every year because we love Jack. Nobody gets

paid one red cent. Keep your argument with John and not with us and don't

try to drag down a group of people who work very hard every year for a good

cause. Our meetings are public we meet the third Thursday of the Month we

are accepting proposals for events next year. All members of the beat-l are

invited to attend. We welcome your support. To make a donation,

or to find out more about Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!, Inc., write:

P.O. Box 1111, Lowell, MA 01853.

                                  Phil Chaput

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:51:42 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      9th district

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

i just recieved an e-mail from that stated

"

This is Shokkee of the 9th Dist.

        I am writing with open arms and an open mind to hear suggestions

and

comments of your personal favorites listed among the "Beat Super Nova,"

crew

list.

 

 

I have never heard of this. any ideas or information what this could be

about

patricia

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:53:18 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      let's get our facts straight

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

                                                October 15, 1997

In response to posts by Paul Maher and Phil Chaput:

 

        As much as I admire the loyalty Mr. Maher and Mr. Chaput have shown

to their leader, coming to his aid after he was knocked to the canvas in

Florida, I must point out that most of what they have to say is quite far

from the truth.

        Mr. Maher again trots out his old argument--"most of the archives

are indeed available"--when in our last verbal go-round I listed the entire

contents of the Kerouac archive, and PROVED that no more than 5%, if that

much, are actually available at the Berg Collection at the New York Public

Library.  I have never denigrated that collection, and I do not denigrate it

now.  Jan Kerouac and I met with Rodney Phillips, the curator, and we both

liked him.  It was clear that he WOULD LIKE TO OWN the Jack Kerouac archive.

But 5% or less can hardly give scholars what they need to assess the

development of Kerouac's whole oeuvre.

        What is there is certainly worth looking at.  But the numerous

drafts of a dozen major books, including VISIONS OF CODY, VISIONS OF GERARD,

ON THE ROAD, DHARMA BUMS, BIG SUR, DR. SAX, THE SUBTERRANEANS, and VANITY OF

DULUOZ, are simply not there.  Only small pieces of two other major works,

DESOLATION ANGELS and MAGGIE CASSIDY, are available there. Most of his

unpublished books (many of them never finished) are not there--VISIONS OF

BILL, VISIONS OF LUCIEN, AND THE HIPPOS WERE BOILED IN THEIR TANKS, THE SEA

IS MY BROTHER, MEMORY BABE, and a dozen others, including a whole novel

written in French.  Only a tiny portion of the notebooks are there.  Only a

smattering of the thousands of letters Kerouac filed away are there.  None

of the tapes, none of his personal scrapbook clippings, none of his personal

photos, etc. etc. Excuse me if I don't spend five hours on this catalogue,

which I already did the first time around.

        Mr. Maher claims many archives are still unavailable, and he cites

Hemingway, Faulkner, and Thoreau.  The Thoreau archive has been available at

the Huntington Museum since the turn of the century.  I don't know the facts

on Hemingway and Faulkner, but I there is good reason to suspect Mr. Maher

is simply talking off the top of his head again.  I will check.

        Of course Mr. Maher is hardly known for accuracy of language.  Could

he please explain to us how somone's touch (mine) can "poison" pieces of

paper in an archive?  Or how my alleged "touch of death" could harm the Jack

Kerouac archive?  Perhaps in his role of impartial journalist he could

inquire of Mr. Sampas how an archive can be killed?

        Never mind that this person with the supposed "killing touch" (me)

wrote MEMORY BABE, known as "the best of the Kerouac biographies."  That's

not Nicosia patting himself on the back.  That's what Bruce Cook wrote in

his big article "King of the Road" in the WASHINGTON POST BOOK WORLD,

Sunday, August 31, 1997.

        As for Mr. Chaput telling me how warmly his Lowell Kerouac Committee

has treated Jan Kerouac, let's look at the facts.  Never once in her

lifetime did they invite her to Lowell, even for the dedication to the

Commemorative (Brad Parker had to pay her way, and she still wasn't allowed

to come up on the dais with Stella Sampas).  Last year they made no official

mention of her.  Ed Sanders TOOK IT UPON HIMSELF to say some kind words

about Jan, because Ed is a good man.  Ed signed the petition at NYU saying

Jan should not have been hauled out by police to keep her from speaking at a

conference about her own father.  The best I can say for the Lowell Kerouac

Committee is at least they didn't cut off his hotel room, as they did to

Michael McClure after he spoke some good words about me from their stage in

1993.

         And this year, Phil?  I didn't make it up to Lowell.  As usual, the

man who wrote "the best of the Kerouac biographies" (Bruce Cook, WASHINGTON

POST BOOK WORLD) did not get an invitation.  But I did peruse your brochure,

and every piece of literature your committee put out.  I DID NOT SEE JAN

KEROUAC'S NAME SO MUCH AS MENTIONED ANYWHERE.  I DID NOT SEE A PICTURE OF

HER, I DID NOT SEE A MENTION OF HER BURIAL, I DID NOT SEE A QUOTE FROM HER

WORKS.   I also read the two articles in the LOWELL SUN purporting to cover

the events of Kerouac Week.  Again, I saw no mention of a tribute to Jan.

If indeed "a prominent Lowell committee member" actually asked that Jan's

soul be prayed for, I applaud him.  But why can't you mention his name?  I

find that really strange.  Could he be arrested or lose his job if word gets

out that he prayed for Jan Kerouac?

        As for John Sampas supposedly saying, "Lord hear our prayer," it

would have been more helpful to Jan if he hadn't tried so hard to cut off a

substantial portion of her royalties while she was dying.

        Come on, Phil, you're going to have to do better than that to show

me your committee has made any real effort to honor Jan Kerouac's memory.

        And it was you, dear Phil, who told me when you called me on the

phone two years ago--do you remember?--that anyone on the Kerouac Committee

would have to be nuts to oppose anything a Sampas wanted--you were

specifically referring to a project Jim Sampas had proposed at a recent

committee meeting.  I can dig out my notes on our conversation, if you need

me to be more specific.

        So why have you changed your tune?

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 01:59:06 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Beat-l a fact only.

In-Reply-To:  <3.0.1.32.19971015235338.006c8e40@pop.tiac.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>"I would like to see a Kerouac committee in Lowell, for instance, that does

>not simply organize presentations that please Mr. Sampas.  I feel it was a

>disgrace again, at Kerouac week this year, that not a single mention was

>made of Jan Kerouac's death, no form of tribute, either in photos, readings

>of her work, spoken memories of her, was given--DESPITE THE FACT THAT JAN'S

>REMAINS WERE BURIED IN NEARBY NASHUA, NEW HAMPSHIRE, ONLY FOUR MONTHS

>BEFORE, on June 5, 1997." - Gerry Nicosia

>

>Last year at our (LCK) main event at the Smith Baker Center Ed Sanders paid

>a nice tribute to Jan Kerouac with John, Tony and Jim Sampas sitting in the

>audience watching the show. Bill Gargan our list administrator was there

>and can verify this. This year at the mass for Jack and Stella we were all

>asked to pray for the soul of Jan Kerouac and I heard both Tony and John

>Sampas voice distinctly say "Lord hear our prayer" along with the rest of

>the people attending the service. It was a prominent Kerouac committee

>member who mentioned Jan and asked the congregation to pray for her soul.

>If you don't believe this Gerry you can call father Gallager at St. Louis

>de France church in Lowell and ask him. Gerry you weren't there at either

>time so you don't know what happened and you try to get the beat-l group

>against Lowell Celebrates Kerouac committee for some personal vendetta. We

>are a group of all volunteers with basically no money to speak of. We all

>work very hard to put this on every year because we love Jack. Nobody gets

>paid one red cent. Keep your argument with John and not with us and don't

>try to drag down a group of people who work very hard every year for a good

>cause. Our meetings are public we meet the third Thursday of the Month we

>are accepting proposals for events next year. All members of the beat-l are

>invited to attend. We welcome your support. To make a donation,

>or to find out more about Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!, Inc., write:

>P.O. Box 1111, Lowell, MA 01853.

>                                  Phil Chaput

 

Mr. Chaput,

 

How wonderful that the Lowell Celebrates Kerouac Committee included Jan

Kerouac in the memorial mass. So good too that a prominent Kerouac

committee member publically asked people to pray for Jan Keroauc.  To know

that you personally heard Tony and John Sampas say, "Lord hear our prayer."

is powerful medicine. How sad that Jan's inclusion wasn't announced in

advance. If the national media had been informed that the Memorial Mass for

Jack Kerouac and his wife Stella was going to included his daughter Jan

Keroauc you might have attracted a larger crowd--both here on this side,

and possibly, in that heavenly auditorium in the great beyond--where many

of the players are all-knowing, the women are all good looking and the kids

are above average ?

 

Of course there's always next year.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing the program for '98.

 

j grant

 

 

 

 

 

 

        Small Press Authors and Publishers display books

                        FREE

                           at

                            BookZen

                        http://www.bookzen.com

             402,900 visitors - 07-01-96 to 07-01-97

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 03:38:58 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

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At 11:30 PM 10/15/97 -0400, you wrote:

>     does anyone on the list have any videos of Jack?  interviews,

>etc.? they'd be willing to copy for me, or trade for copies of whatever

>I might have that they'd be interested in?  very interested in seeing

>Jack on video.  Is there a bootleg market for rare Kerouac recordings?

>are there rare Kerouac recordings in circ?  anyone with knowledge in

>this area please offer your insight. thanks.

>     also, what exactly is availble to the public for research in the

>places where archival stuff is stored, if any at all?  like in a new

>york library? has that all been put on hold till the suits are resolved?

>

Hi! I have a list on my web site of Kerouac archive material placed on

deposit and donated to the New York Public Library by the Kerouac Estate. It

is at:

 

  http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/Kerouac Quarterly.html

 

          Take care, Paul. . .

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 02:43:53 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or Just a Few?

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.A32.3.94.971015184825.68070D-100000@spnode03.tcs.tulane.edu>

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>>

>> > "Gerald Nicosia's poisoned hand will never touch the Kerouac archive.

>> > His touch is the touch of death."

>

>"Life is suffering, it ends when you're dead."

>        -AG

>

>And we all know that Jack knew that true perfection would never be

>reached until death.  He felt so bad that he brought a perfect soul into

>this imperfect world that he would not accept her.  He didn't want to

>acknowledge his own imperfections through the existence of a child.

>I'd take that as a comment, Gerald.

>

>        kind of serious kind of not,

>                                        matt

 

May not have wanted to but did. Read everything to the end. Including his

last letter to Paul.

 

j grant

 

 

        Small Press Authors and Publishers display books

                        FREE

                           at

                            BookZen

                        http://www.bookzen.com

             402,900 visitors - 07-01-96 to 07-01-97

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 04:03:45 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: let's get our facts straight

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I think some people are happier if they weren't contested  at all. Am I

speaking off the top of my head or am I recalling, somewhat distantly, a

quote from the The American Studies Journal from August 1992 about literary

archive availability? I guess I should really get ALL my facts straight

before I dare say anything that may collide with the cherished views of Mr.

Nicosia. Pardon me folks but I am not no Stone Phillips, a journalist with a

mission to get into the real John Sampas. I simply asked, after reading a

post here, what is the official word of the estate on this matter? He spoke

and I relay it to you. Again, John Sampas' number, and he does not care

about this, is 1-978-458-2708. Ask him yourself what he meant. Just don't

stone me because I have the nerve to ask. I have no say in what goes on in

the Sampas family. I merely maintain a web page as well as a quarterly and

conduct my own research for my own work. That, my friend, is first and

foremost in my world and all that I can ask for. Why though, does everything

have to be available right now? This very minute? Why not after the turn of

the century? Why not fifty years from now when most of us are dead. Why does

it have to happen when YOU are alive? That is what makes no sense my friend.

You act like it has been buried indefinitely. Is it hard to assume that a

lot of it isn't in there right now because of this lawsuit? That is the core

of the matter at hand, not a decision of John Sampas' of which does not rest

on his authority alone. He is the EXECUTOR of the Sampas family's hold on

the estate. Not the sole decision-maker. Ask Sterling Lord for that matter,

or maybe John Lash. I know of at least six things in the works for release

to the public. Work on the French novel is ongoing as wellas The Sea Is My

Brother. We now know the journals are being published. More letters. I think

if the archives aren't available, even to me and I have written a book, its

my own tough luck. Write around them, that's all you can do. There are

several works written, being written, and yet to be written which have been

accomplished without the help of all the archives. That's a fact of

scholarship. Tired now, Goodnight. Paul. . .

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 01:44:14 -0700

Reply-To:     vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Adrien Begrand <vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>

Subject:      Lew Welch's autumn--part one

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THE IMPORTANCE OF AUTUMN

 

when that autumnal wind

busy with the rubbish of the year

divests the tree of lingering ornaments

sending them whirling with the fallen ones

 

when that consumptive flush

that culmination

pretense

fragmentation

reveals a tree of sticks

that cannot cage the wind

 

and ducks pass black and low

in a sky of so intense a glare

that gulls seem gray

 

then look closely

 

for in this primal light

 

you'll see love walking

with the wind pressed to her thighs

 

you'll see her as she dances

dancing counter to the whirling leaves

 

you'll see her dance 'til suddenly she

stops

quieting the leaves

 

some settle on her breast and hair

one floats by - she

hits it with her hand

 

and vanishes

 

then on a field of dark pine trees

burst flocks of gulls

white

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 01:44:25 -0700

Reply-To:     vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Adrien Begrand <vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>

Subject:      Lew Welch's autumn--part two

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FALL

 

Wet

the dead leaves stick upon the hillside

 

among them

          beads of a light rain

gathered in her short-cropped hair

                          the lean girl walks

 

tweeds

 

befitting her.

 

Break not upon a four-foot hedge the

crisp leaf dangling

 

shallowly the river flows

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 03:54:40 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Ferlinghetti record?

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Donald,

 

        Your query about the Ferlinghetti recording made me curious as I'd

just bought a Kenneth Rexroth recording and knew that another recording

existed with he and Ferlinghetti. the only trace I could turn up was the

following and it isn't clear whether he performs C"Coney Island..." on it.

 

                Antoine

 

                ***********************

 

 The Coney Island of Lawrence Ferlinghetti. ([Sausalito, CA]: Chris Felver,

1996).

     1 videocassette 59 min. VIDEO/C 4402 Media Center; also: Bancroft (in

process)

 

     Featuring Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Allen Ginsberg, Gregory Corso, Anne

Waldman, Nancy Peters, Ed Sanders, Amiri Baraka,

     Michael McClure, Philip Whalen, Neeli Cherkovski.

 

     Amerian poet and publisher, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, expounds upon the

role of poets and authors of dissident literature in American

     culture. Includes commentary by other American authors of the Beat

Generation.

 

http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC/BeatGen.html#Coney Island

 

                **********************

 

>I am writing this because (1) I'm not getting responses when i send queries to

>the other address.  I have been asking again and again if anyone knows where I

>can find  the recording (to jazz accompanyment) of Ferlinghetti reading "Coney

>Island of the Mind."  I have been unable to find it anywhere.  My e-mail

address

>is as follows; winte030@tc.umn.edu

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never

cease to be amused."

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 04:35:22 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Last word on this matter

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In the future, to prevent this meaningless tirade from enduring longer, I

will only report, via web page news, what the press says. Investigative

inquiries only arouses contempt, bitterness, and rebuttal. My interests, of

course, is to be able to read and use as research ALL of Jack Kerouac's

works too. Since that is not the case so be it. I have a ton of other things

to read. I do not "make up things off the top of my head" being the editor

of a publication which emphasizes Jack Kerouac as its subject. This

quarterly, which is being established as the first scholarly journal dealing

with the man and his works is gaining steam as we speak. With help in the

future from such people as Columbia University professor Ann Douglas, Naropa

Institute, Michigan State U., U. of New Brunswick, and so on releases it

from any speculation of this as being another bumpkin publication from a

rabid fan. This is surely not a profit-making venture. Starting anew, and

not being caught up in this drivel, I hope everybody concerned will maintain

equal footing  with issues only lawyers on the case can understand.

Admiteedly, I don't even know what is going on.  Paul Maher of The Kerouac

Quarterly.

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 07:22:40 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "IamAs I Be@aol.com" <IamAsIBe@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: jazz

 

OK, On the Jazz tip......

...... since many great jazz artists are being mentioned, I just could not

let my favourite ingenious sax players go unmentioned !!!   :-)

 

Hank Mobley !! ~~

Eric Dolphy !! ~~

Cannonball Adderley !! ~~

Sonny Rollins !! ~~

Wayne Shorter !! ~~

John Coltrane !! ~~

Dexter Gordon !! ~~

 

Whew, I am getting exited !!    ;-)

 

Thanks guys,  I appreciate you to the maximum !! God Bless.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:26:33 PDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tom Harberd <T.E.Harberd@UEA.AC.UK>

Subject:      Re: burroughsian scholars?

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On Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:23:36 -0400 ncary wrote:

 

> From: ncary <ncary@CLARK.NET>

> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:23:36 -0400

> Subject: Re: burroughsian scholars?

> To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>

> Hi folks,

>

> Regarding Burrough scholars, there is a new book on Burroughs scheduled

> for January 1998 and

> yes in the

> works before his death. Though I guess the author might hold it back for

> some revising.

>

 

And there's one by my Beat Gen. Seminar leader, Graham Coveney (I think that's

his name - short term memory not too good - and it might be rude to ask him

again!)

 

Tom. H.

http://www.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759

"When the going gets wierd...."

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:29:25 PDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tom Harberd <T.E.Harberd@UEA.AC.UK>

Subject:      Re: burroughsian scholars?

Mime-Version: 1.0

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On Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:07:46 UT Sherri wrote:

 

> From: Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:07:46 UT

> Subject: Re: burroughsian scholars?

> To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>

> Michael, thanks.  funny and imaginative.  ciao, sherri

>

> ----------

> From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Michael R. Brown

> Sent:   Wednesday, October 15, 1997 12:25 PM

> To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

> Subject:        Re: burroughsian scholars?

>

> On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, PoOka(the friendly ghost) wrote:

>

> >         oh here's a horrible thought: what if a 90s beat film was made

> > and corporate america actually embraced such a thing? could you fathom a

> > Kerouac "Happy-meal" or a Ginsberg action figure?

>

 

Kerouac "Happy-meal": Amphetamines, a jug of wine and an orange (see Dharma

Bums)

 

Burroughs "Happy-lunch": As normal, but with no container (gettit?  Oh I do make

myself laugh, ho ho ho."

 

Tom. H.

http://www.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759

"A Bear of Very Little Brain"

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:31:35 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sara Feustle <sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>

Subject:      Jazz-God

In-Reply-To:  <971015223718_862303831@emout09.mail.aol.com>

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

The true jazz-god, and the living Jack Kerouac is an amazingly cool guy

named Bill Heid from Detroit. Anybody else know who I'm talking about? He

holds like 7 world records for hitch-hiking, and is THE jazz organist

right now, and probably forever!

 

On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, IamAs I Be@aol.com wrote:

 

> OK, On the Jazz tip......

> ...... since many great jazz artists are being mentioned, I just could not

> let my favourite ingenious sax players go unmentioned !!!   :-)

>

> Hank Mobley !! ~~

> Eric Dolphy !! ~~

> Cannonball Adderley !! ~~

> Sonny Rollins !! ~~

> Wayne Shorter !! ~~

> John Coltrane !! ~~

> Dexter Gordon !! ~~

>

> Whew, I am getting exited !!    ;-)

>

> Thanks guys,  I appreciate you to the maximum !! God Bless.

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:51:31 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject:      Re: let's get our facts straight

In-Reply-To:  <199710160553.WAA15886@italy.it.earthlink.net>

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>        And it was you, dear Phil, who told me when you called me on the

>phone two years ago--do you remember?--that anyone on the Kerouac Committee

>would have to be nuts to oppose anything a Sampas wanted--you were

>specifically referring to a project Jim Sampas had proposed at a recent

>committee meeting.  I can dig out my notes on our conversation, if you need

>me to be more specific.

>        So why have you changed your tune?

>

>Are you for real. I never talked to you about anything except what was

going on with the archive at U-Mass Lowell because I was concerned about

it. I wanted to hear both sides of the story. You did 99% of the talking.

How could you possibly come up with something like this? You are a very

desperate man to resort to the likes of this. All I can say folks is WOW!

WOW! WOW! what hogwash. I don't need notes. I know exactly what I said to

you and I never ever said anything like that. So again you are bull

shitting the folks on the beat-l like when you said that the Sampas family

hadn't put any archives in the library. Like you said Jan was never

mentioned either last year or this year. Now you say that it was Ed Sanders

doing it on his own. Well Gerry which is it? Tell the beat-l members which

facts they should believe. Keep your fight with John and leave LCK out of

this quagmire.

I don't represent John or the LCK committee I only represent myself.

I can see this is going nowhere as usual and nobody wants to hear this crap

so lets just end the whole thread. By the way it was Roger Brunelle vice

president of LCK who asked the congregation to pray for Jan. I am sure you

will have something bad to say about him. Phil

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:20:40 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      "I" "saw"

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Thanks to all for your patience with me in my rather slow pondering

pathway through Howl.  I'm becoming more enamored with the poem

everyday.

 

The focus since i stepped back to the "I" and the "I saw" has given me

insights (via y'alls posts) not only into the poem - but into Allen

Ginsberg and even the possible connections between literature in general

and beat generation literature.

 

Yesterday morning, i decided to examine my little pocket poet series

booklet one more time in light of the "I" "Saw" notion one more time

before moving on in the poem.  I think that the "I" in "HOWL" seems to

contain the private persona of Allen at that point in his life, and

seems to be an "I" he is able to come back to later in his life as his

"self" had changed.  I can even see the notion of the "I" re-presenting

a far larger notion of "Be-ing" as Diane Carter has suggested.

 

My experiment that perhaps y'all can help me with (given more materials

available and more experience with studying this poem and AG in general)

was to examine the "I's" in HOWL -- in the poem Howl for Carl Solomon

and the other poems in the Pocket edition which seemed to possibly

reflect the realm of "I" in Allen's mind at this point in his life.  I

had little notion as to where it would lead, surprisingly, few if any

"I's" that i found elsewhere in the pocket edition seemed to suggest

such a universal all-encompassing "I" as the "I" which begins Howl for

Carl Solomon.  Reflecting on the connection between the "I's" and the

actions taken by the "I's", it seems that the type of seeing that Allen

"saw" at the beginning of Howl for Carl Solomon is also very very

broad.  It is clearly more than the notion of "saw" that i employed when

seeing Time magazine at the local filling station -- and probably even a

broader "saw" than the "saw" suggested in "Supermarket" which itself

reflects some sort of imaginative and visionary notion.

 

It seems easy to see how the "I" and the "I saw" at the opening of Howl

for Car Solomon is supposed to pull me or any reader within it into some

sort of royal (or perhaps anti-royal) "I" and a communal vision of "I

saw".  Again in most of the other examples of uses of "I" it seems easy,

as the reader, to remain outside the "I" and merely observe Ginsberg's

perspective.  But in Howl for Carl Solomon the "I" seems to encompass

the "me" of any reader who takes the words seriously.

 

Any insights from folks with more information on Howl for Carl Solomon,

with journals and letters from Allen in this period, or biographical

information which could add insights (if there is insight to begin with

in this post) would be appreciated.

 

What follows is the scratches i have on several index cards on my coffee

table:

 

Howl and Other Poems

 

Howl for Carl Solomon

 

"I saw..." p.9

"to find out if I had a vision" p.14

"you are not safe I am not safe" p.16

 

"Moloch in whom I sit lonely!" p.17

"Moloch in whom I dream Angels!" p.17

"Moloch in whom I am a consciousness without a body!" p.17

"Moloch whom I abandon!" p.17

 

"I'm with you in Rockland" (many times) pp. 19-20

"you're madder than I am" p.19

 

A Supermarket in California

 

"thoughts I have" p.23

"for I walked" p.23

"I went into" p.23

"I saw you" p.23

"I heard you" p.23

"I wandered in and out" p.23

"(I touch your book..." p.23

 

Transcription of Organ Music

 

"because I used it before" p.25

"I began to feel" p.25

"that's why I want to sing" p.25

"I expected the presence" p.25

"I saw my gray painted walls and ceiling" p.25

"I opened my door" p.25

"Can I bring back the words?" p.25

"waiting in space where I placed them,..." p.25

"I had a moment of clarity" p.26

"I watered faithfully" p.26

"how much I loved them" p.26

"I am so lonely in my glory" p.26

"--I looked up --" p.26

"...where I left it, since I left it open..." p.26

"I wish to enter the kitchen" p.26

"I remember when I first got laid" p.26

"I sat on the docks of Provincetown" p.26

"if I wished to enter" p.26

"if i ever need them" p.27

"I haven't the money" p.27

"I want people to bow" p.27

 

Sunflower Sutra

 

"I walked on the banks..." p.28

"--I rushed up enchanted--" p.28

"O my soul I loved you then" p.29

"what more could I name" p.29

"So I grabbed" p.30

 

America

 

"America I've given you all and now I am nothing" p.31

"I can't stand my own mind" p.31

"I don't feel good" p.31

"I won't write my poem till I'm in my right mind" p.31

"I'm sick of your insane demands" p.31

"When can I go into" p.31

"and buy what I need" p.31

"it is you and I" p.31

"I don't think he'll come back" p.31

"I'm trying to come to the point" p.31

"I refuse to give up" p.31

"I know what I'm doing" p.31

"I haven't read the newspapers" p.31

"America I feel sentimental" p.31

"America I used to be" p.31

"when I was a kid" p.31

"I'm not sorry" p.31

"I smoke marijuana" p.32

"every chance I get" p.32

"I sit in my house" p.32

"when I go" p.32

"I get drunk" p.32

"I'm perfectly right" p.32

"I won't say" p.32

"I have mystical visions" p.32

"America I still haven't told you" p.32

"I'm addressing you" p.32

"I'm obsessed" p.32

"I read it" p.32

"I slink past" p.32

"I read it" p.32

"I am America" p.32

"I am talking" p.32

"I haven't got" p.32

"I'd better consider" p.32

"I'd better consider" p.32

"I say nothing about" p.32

"I have abolished" p.33

"how can I write" p.33

"I will continue" p.33

"America I will sell" p.33

"America I am the Scottboro boys" p.33

American when I was seven" p.33

"made me cry I once saw" p.33

"the impression I got" p.34

"I'd better get" p.34

"I don't want to join" p.34

"I'm nearsighted" p.34

"America I'm putting" p.34

 

In the Baggage Room at Greyhound

 

"I realized" p.35

"I realized" p.36

"I saw naked" p.37

"before I quit" p.37

"I am a communist" p.37

"where I suffered so much" p.37

 

Song

 

"I wanted" p.41

"I always wanted" p.41

"I always wanted" p.41

"where I was born" p.41

 

In back of the real

 

"I wandered desolate" p.44

"I thought" p.44

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:49:19 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Estate Battle

 

Gerry, Phil, and Paul:  It's clear you don't agree on the issues

discussed in your last several posts to Beat-l.  The points of your

disagreements have been thoroughly aired on Beat-l already.  I think

that any further arguments you wish to make with one another should be

done off the list.   Having the list members as audience can only lead

to inflamed rhetoric and injured feeling on all sides, something none of

us wants.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:52:20 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Donald E. Winters" <winte030@TC.UMN.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Ferlinghetti record?

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Antoine: Thank you very much.  Donald

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:57:42 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle

In-Reply-To:  <BEAT-L%1997101609531449@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 09:49 AM 10/16/97 EDT, you wrote:

>Gerry, Phil, and Paul:  It's clear you don't agree on the issues

>discussed in your last several posts to Beat-l.  The points of your

>disagreements have been thoroughly aired on Beat-l already.  I think

>that any further arguments you wish to make with one another should be

>done off the list.   Having the list members as audience can only lead

>to inflamed rhetoric and injured feeling on all sides, something none of

>us wants.

>

> I agree Bill I am all done talking to Gerry about this. Just remember who

made the first post and accusation this time. Phil

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:16:30 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Donald E. Winters" <winte030@TC.UMN.EDU>

Subject:      Corso

Mime-Version: 1.0

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Many thanks to Antoine for his response.  I'm still looking, however, for the

record of Ferlinghetti's wonderful reading of "Coney Island of the Mind" with a

jazz accompaniment.  It's out of print but I thought somebody might want to sell

or trade (for maybe a Dylan bootlet, etc.).  I would also like to know if anyone

knows what has become of Gregory Corso.  I have fond memories of teaching

English in Shrewsbury, Mass. and coaching a speech student on his "dramatic

interp." of "Marrage" for a state speech tournament (a quite censored version of

the poem I'm afraid).  He won.  As a writer and teacher of poetry, I have always

been fond of Corso and felt  that his work was undervalued.  Besides "Marriage,"

I particularly enjoyed "Army" and "Two Poets Hitchkiking on the Highway."  I

always enjoyed his hilarious use of absurdist, dadaist imagery. --Donald (my

e-mail # is: winte030@tc.umn.edu

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:02:12 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: "I" "saw"

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> RACE wrote:

>

> It seems easy to see how the "I" and the "I saw" at the opening of Howl

> for Car Solomon is supposed to pull me or any reader within it into

> some

> sort of royal (or perhaps anti-royal) "I" and a communal vision of "I

> saw".  Again in most of the other examples of uses of "I" it seems >

> easy,

> as the reader, to remain outside the "I" and merely observe Ginsberg's

> perspective.  But in Howl for Carl Solomon the "I" seems to encompass

> the "me" of any reader who takes the words seriously.

>

> Any insights from folks with more information on Howl for Carl Solomon,

> with journals and letters from Allen in this period, or biographical

> information which could add insights (if there is insight to begin with

> in this post) would be appreciated.

 

Pulling out all of the I's like that really does give a wonderful

perspective on how Ginsberg's writing reflects this movement to the

personal I as important in where he took poetry to a new level.  You

quote from Transcription of Organ Music which I think is my favorite

poem.  I was recently suprised to find that while Transcription is in the

Collect Poems 1947-80, it is not in the Selected Poems, 1947-1995.

 

In addition to your request for postings from biographical material,

letters, etc., I was hoping someone with a copy of the annotated Howl

could post what kind of changes Ginsberg made to the beginning few

stanzas in writing it.  What did he cross out, write in the margins

about, etc.?

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 07:54:48 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: burroughsian scholars?

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Sounds like the elves back, almost.

 

Remember the Beat Xmas (or was it Thanksgiving) dinners last year?

 

js

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:30:05 -0600

Reply-To:     "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>

Organization: Calgary Free-Net

Subject:      leon! pls contact marie

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(sorry for the wasted bandwidth)

leon.

could you pls drop marie a note. she would like to hear from you - if you

can write before friday her address is noank@aol.com, if you write after

friday she can be reached at her usual email address (country@sover.net)

thanks

derek

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:23:57 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>

Subject:      Re: Corso

In-Reply-To:  <344621be31a9717@mhub1.tc.umn.edu> from "Donald E. Winters" at

              Oct 16, 97 09:16:30 am

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> or trade (for maybe a Dylan bootlet, etc.).  I would also like to know if

 anyone

> knows what has become of Gregory Corso.  I have fond memories of teaching

> English in Shrewsbury, Mass. and coaching a speech student on his "dramatic

> interp." of "Marrage" for a state speech tournament (a quite censored version

 of

> the poem I'm afraid).  He won.  As a writer and teacher of poetry, I have

 always

> been fond of Corso and felt  that his work was undervalued.  Besides

 "Marriage,"

 

Me too -- it took me a few years to start catching Corso's charm and his

sense of humor, but at this point I like his stuff as much as anybody's.

 

As for his whereabouts, he's still hanging around not too far from

NY City -- a friend of mine just had dinner with him in the Village

a couple of weeks ago.  I believe he lives somewhere upstate but

I'm not sure.  Still writes, still shows up at Beat tribute

events if sufficiently tempted.

 

------------------------------------------------------

| Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com                   |

|                                                    |

|    Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |

|     (the beat literature web site)                 |

|                                                    |

|        "Coffeehouse: Writings from the Web"        |

|          (a real book, like on paper)              |

|             also at http://coffeehousebook.com     |

|                                                    |

|              *---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---* |

|                                                    |

|                Mister, I ain't a boy, no I'm a man |

------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 18:55:11 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Like Old Days in the Park--Is It Real or is it Retro?

In-Reply-To:  <3441B9BB.45ED@sunflower.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

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At 01.03 13/10/97 -0500, Patricia Elliott wrote:

>shooting with the men 1985

>  by patricia elliott

>

>The tall thin man

>leaps to a crouch

>opening fire on his own heart.

>

>i watched morgan stand stiff, posed,

>ignoring me, for who was she

>but some ol sow eyed gal.

>I am the ghost, the one that suvived.

>

>trying to smell the hidden secrets

>in the face of the horrid honest man.

>ted was green with fear

> if this was a writer,

>

>the tall slim eye once again

>baring the tattered muscle,

>He led me once and then again up to the gun.

>Both of us getting past past.

>I shot fast,

>He took my hand ,

>he sang,

>he wept and gave me tears.

>

>we walked home through the dark.

>

>

the patricia's poem remind me

a Jack Kerouac televised in 1969,

during his italian tour to celebrate the 500th

series of novels of La Medusa with the book

"Big Sur" (translated in italian), the trip

was bad and Jack Kerouac wished "tell me off"

and at the end "of course not, but why don't

you shoot me?"

 

saluti a tutti,

rinaldo.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 18:54:32 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Van Morrison.

In-Reply-To:  <3437C1E6.779@midusa.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Alan Watts Blues                by Van Morrison

 

Well I'm taking some time with my quiet friend

Well I'm takin' some time on my own.

Well I'm makin' some plans for my getaway

There'll be blue skies shining up above

When I'm cloud hidden

Cloud hidden

Whereabouts unknown

 

Well I've got to get out of the rat-race now

I'm tired of the ways of mice and men

And the empires all turning into rust again.

Out of everything nothing remains the same

That's why I'm cloud hidden

Cloud hidden

Whereabouts unknown

 

Bridge

Sittin' up on the mountain-top in my solitude

Where the morning fog comes rollin' in

Just might do me some good.

 

Well I'm waiting in the clearing with my motor on

Well it's time to get back to the town again

Where the air is sweet and fresh in the countryside

Well it won't be long before I get back here again.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:02:00 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         John J Dorfner <Jjdorfner@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: The Kerouac Legacy--for Everyone or Just a Few?

 

more talk...

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:30:02 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         John J Dorfner <Jjdorfner@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: let's get our facts straight

 

i love this...

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:25:47 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle

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BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU,.Internet writes:

>Gerry, Phil, and Paul:  It's clear you don't agree on the issues

>discussed in your last several posts to Beat-l.  The points of your

>disagreements have been thoroughly aired on Beat-l already.  I think

>that any further arguments you wish to make with one another should be

>done off the list.   Having the list members as audience can only lead

>to inflamed rhetoric and injured feeling on all sides, something none of

>us wants.

 

 

     let's also be careful not to force ourselves to stick this in the

closet either.. it's extremely important.  i'm quite sure that gerry

phil paul are capable of being civil.  I see ev everyone's anger, it's

incredibly easy to get ripped about something like this, because there

are so many assenine components  to it, even the arguments that go on

here.  this name calling, and all these you said i saids are a waste of

time, for crying out loud.... i don't think anyone is out to kill the

Kerouac legacy, we're all interested in saving what we can of what's

out there, but we're not going to get anywhere with insignificant

bickering.  I'm rolling on the floor laughing to tears at this pathetic

hurricane when i think of jack's genius and love; where'd the meaning

get lost?

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:33:04 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle

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>> I agree Bill I am all done talking to Gerry about this. Just remember

>who

>made the first post and accusation this time. Phil

 

 

     what the hell?  am i going to have to separate you kids?  send you

to your room to think about what you've done?  have any of you

progressed mentally since the age of five?  "he started it."  Yeah, and

YOU responded equivalently.

   by the way, this is not an attack, just a lighthearted editorial

comment, i'm laughing my ass off right now...

   happy trails...

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:44:15 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Van Morrison.

In-Reply-To:  <3.0.1.32.19971016185432.00731634@pop.gpnet.it>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

> Alan Watts Blues                by Van Morrison

 

What album is this from?  I'm a big fan but don't recognize this one.  Of

course he's got a song list that would stretch the length of Italy so I'm

not surprised.

 

------------------

Alex Howard  (704)264-8259                    Appalachian State University

kh14586@am.appstate.edu                       P.O. Box 12149

http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586             Boone, NC  28608

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:46:50 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

 

"In the jungle, the quiet jungle..."

 

well, kids,  i think it's about time we read some poetry together.  how bout

di Prima - would be good to discuss some Beat women's contributions for a

change. Corso, Welch, Snyder, McClure also come to mind....

 

any takers?

 

ciao,

sherri

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:42:03 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: "I" "saw"

 

>Thanks to all for your patience with me in my rather slow pondering

>pathway through Howl.  I'm becoming more enamored with the poem

>everyday.

 

I haven't had to call on any reserves of patience yet to finish reading your

posts. I have been holding back from expressing how grateful I am for the

brilliant glimpses of your soul, heart and mind that you are sharing with

us.You have been saying nice things about my posts, and I don't want to

sound like I am reciprocating.

 

Sometimes I feel that we are all straining our flashlights in the forbidding

darkness of our world full of shadows. We are attracted to the searching

lights that flicker on our screens, recognition of fellow wondering

(wandering) searchers for clues to our lives.

 

Here is a scenario for a movie. Or is it  choreography for a dance? a score

for music? all of these? life maybe? Illuminated flashes of clues, looking

here, looking there, looking for this, looking for that, holding up our

finds, and what can we make of that clue left on the screens of our

imaginations, how do we fit the new surprises (If we are lucky. Without them

we are dead. Dead may be just fine in its time, it's bad to be dead while

alive.) into the new visions of eternities that we construct for here and

now.

 

It is these kinds of wonders that you always bring to me through this list.

You stumbled onto something when you  iluminated the shadowy ever present

hesitantingly acknowledged lurking "I" in the life of our communications to

one another. What's hiding beneath this dead leaf, that bloom on the tree

that is me that is rooted in the dirt and reaches for the sun. What better

place to search for it than in the writings of the beats. Even if it was not

they who invented the games of life all be their  collective "I"selves.

 

BTW you asked me some questions the other day about what was I doing at 72

not trying to play dead? Was that partly what you were kidding me about?  If

you were inquiring about my health, I am very pleased to report that my

(our) lifestyle, while having presented challenges and difficulties that

seem too much to handle, nevertheless seemed to not have caused wear and

tear that is customarily expected at today's prevailing rate of aging. I

know that worry, stress or drugs, are not the cause of grey hair, myths to

the conrary not withstanding. That post I got in an out of town post office

and I was on a high roll for two days, it's not here in my records. If there

were other things I left out, please backchannell me the questions.

 

That gathering in the Golden Gate park was an inspiration.

 

leon

 

 

 

 

 

 

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 12:56:42 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Donald E. Winters" <winte030@TC.UMN.EDU>

Subject:      estate battle

Mime-Version: 1.0

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I agree with  what seems to be the majorityh opinion on this squabble.  It sucks

and I wish you would continue it between each other instead of through the

BEAT-L channel.  There is an important difference between the childish and the

childlike.  We need more of the CHILDLIKE and a hell of a lot less of the

CHILDISH!! -Donald

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:02:45 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle

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Why is it that nothing Nicosia, Maher, or Chaput say or do in this

matter remind me in any way of anything remotely related to the

qualities I associate with Jack Kerouac?  How far the apples have fallen

from the tree.  Reminds me of a nice corporate takeover battle more than

anything else, or an especially ugly divorce.

 

js

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:57:30 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sean Young <syoung@DSW.COM>

Subject:      Dear Landlord

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     With all this estate controversy, it sort of reminded me of a great

     Dylan song. Especially the last verse. Here it is for you all.

     Peace be upon you.

     Sean D. Young

     --------------------------------------------------------------------

                    DEAR LANDLORD

                    (Words and Music by Bob Dylan)

                     1968, 1985 Dwarf Music

 

                    Dear landlord,

                    Please don't put a price on my soul.

                    My burden is heavy,

                    My dreams are beyond control.

                    When that steamboat whistle blows,

                    I'm gonna give you all I got to give,

                    And I do hope you receive it well,

                    Dependin' on the way you feel that you live.

 

                    Dear landlord,

                    Please heed these words that I speak.

                    I know you've suffered much,

                    But in this you are not so unique.

                    All of us, at times, we might work too hard

                    To have it too fast and too much,

                    And anyone can fill his life up

                    With things he can see but he just cannot touch.

 

                    Dear landlord,

                    Please don't dismiss my case.

                    I'm not about to argue,

                    I'm not about to move to no other place.

                    Now, each of us has his own special gift

                    And you know this was meant to be true,

                    And if you don't underestimate me,

                    I won't underestimate you.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:07:18 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Poetic Women

MIME-Version: 1.0

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On Sherri'shread of women Beat poets--is anyone familiar with the

inprint status of Joanne Kyger and Lenore Kandel--especially Kyger who

is a wonderful poet.

 

James Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:02:33 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Donald E. Winters" <winte030@TC.UMN.EDU>

Subject:      women beats

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

But those names you mentioned are men?  What's your point? I thought you wanted

more discussion on women writers?

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:13:19 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle--Make Good Wills Guys and Gals

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The productive outcome of this exchange would be to remind all you

writers out there to plan ahead for the care of your artistic children

as you would for the guardianship of your children.

 

Choose a good literary executor, and keep literary decisions out of the

hands of your conniving relatives and spouses!  Lew Welch (another

drinker) had the advantage of knowing that he was dissapearing--but all

his stuff is nicely housed at UC San Diego having been well taken care

of by Don Allen.  How nice it would have been if Jack had possesed this

foresight.

 

James Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 14:13:10 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Jon B. Pearlstone" <THYE@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Van Morrison.

 

Alex:

 

As I have mentioned in prior e-mails--I am close friends with Alan Watts'

eldest son, Mark.  I just called him and he told me you will find the song

about his Dad on the Album:

 

Poetic Champions Compose

 

According to Mark, Van was a big Alan Watts fan and close friend and spent a

good deal of time with him at his retreat on Mount Tamalpais.

 

Mark also invited anyone with an interest in Alan Watts' spoken word or

writings to e-mail him at:

 

watts@alanwatts.com or visit his web site at alanwatts.com and he will be

happy to answer any other questions you may have.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Have a great day!

 

Jon Pearlstone

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:13:28 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Donald E. Winters" <winte030@TC.UMN.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Dear Landlord

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To Dean Young: As an insanely enthusiastic Dylan fan I'm endlessly amazed at how

Dylan's songs, "Dear Landlord," for example, seem to have an uncanny connection

with whatever issue is being discussed.  Thanks for your insightful connection

between the raging Kerouac legacy battle and that wonderful Dylan song. Donald

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:20:30 -0800

Reply-To:     jmaynard@csubak.edu

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         John Arthur Maynard <John_Maynard@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Corso

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Levi Asher wrote:

 

> > or trade (for maybe a Dylan bootlet, etc.).  I would also like to know if

>  anyone

> > knows what has become of Gregory Corso.  I have fond memories of teaching

> > English in Shrewsbury, Mass. and coaching a speech student on his "dramatic

> > interp." of "Marrage" for a state speech tournament (a quite censored

 version

>  of

> > the poem I'm afraid).  He won.  As a writer and teacher of poetry, I have

>  always

> > been fond of Corso and felt  that his work was undervalued.  Besides

>  "Marriage,"

>

> Me too -- it took me a few years to start catching Corso's charm and his

> sense of humor, but at this point I like his stuff as much as anybody's.

>

> As for his whereabouts, he's still hanging around not too far from

> NY City -- a friend of mine just had dinner with him in the Village

> a couple of weeks ago.  I believe he lives somewhere upstate but

> I'm not sure.  Still writes, still shows up at Beat tribute

> events if sufficiently tempted.

 

I've been thinking this completely idle and irrelevant thought for years, and I

guess now's the time to say it:

 

Has anybody ever noticed that Gregory Corso's practically a ringer for Pete

 Rose?

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 14:17:32 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Czarnecki <peent@SERVTECH.COM>

Subject:      Re: Van Morrison.

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>> Alan Watts Blues                by Van Morrison

>

>What album is this from?  I'm a big fan but don't recognize this one.  Of

>course he's got a song list that would stretch the length of Italy so I'm

>not surprised.

>

>------------------

>Alex Howard

 

Poetic Champions Compose. 1987.

 

Van refers quite often to beat references.

In "Cleaning Windows" from Beautiful Vision, 1982

 

"I went home and read my Christmas Humpheries book on Zen.

Curiosity killed the cat,

Kerouac's Dharma Bums and On the Road.

What's my line, I'm happy cleaning windows."

 

Also, in "On Hyndford Street" from the double release HYmns To the Silence

 

"And reading Mr. Jellyroll

and Big Bill Broonzy

and"Realy the Blues by Mezz Mezzrow

and Dharma Bums by Jack Kerouac

over and over again."

 

I'm sure there's other songs with beat references but these are the first

ones that come to mind.

 

I've always seen Van as one of the real artists in the pop music field,

doing what he wants to do as an artist and not worrying about record sales

and pleasing the public very much.

 

Michael

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 18:36:46 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Poetic Women

 

James-

if i'm not mistaken City Lights is carrying a book or two of Kyger's.  i know

i saw it somewhere and think it was there...

 

sherri

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of James Stauffer

Sent:   Thursday, October 16, 1997 11:07 AM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Re: Poetic Women

 

On Sherri'shread of women Beat poets--is anyone familiar with the

inprint status of Joanne Kyger and Lenore Kandel--especially Kyger who

is a wonderful poet.

 

James Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 14:41:33 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Czarnecki <peent@SERVTECH.COM>

Subject:      Re: Jazz-God

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Sara Feustle wrote:

>The true jazz-god, and the living Jack Kerouac is an amazingly cool guy

>named Bill Heid from Detroit. Anybody else know who I'm talking about? He

>holds like 7 world records for hitch-hiking, and is THE jazz organist

>right now, and probably forever!

 

What does it mean that he holds 7 world records for hitchhiking?

 

Michael

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:59:41 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle

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Tyson Ouellette wrote:

>      let's also be careful not to force ourselves to stick this in the

> closet either.. it's extremely important.  i'm quite sure that gerry

> phil paul are capable of being civil.

 

 

no i don't think they are, i think if they want to discuss this dead

hand stuff they should do it off list.

p

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 12:38:47 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Coffee House In The LA Times

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I opened the rag this morn and saw our friend Levi's Coffee House Writings

reviews along with a bunch of other so-called post modern books.

 

Here is the Coffee hous part with the whole dog under it

________

 

 In a strange twist of media, "Coffeehouse: Writings From the

                      Web" (Manning Publications, 316 pages, $24.95)

promises to bring

                      the best of a flourishing literary underground (heretofore

                      unrestrained by the demands of publishers and

publishing) to the

                      masses. Edited by Levi Asher and Christian Crumlish, this

                      paperback also features illustrations by Carl

Steadman, co-founder

                      of the legendary online magazine Suck.

 

______________________________________

 

Thursday, October 16, 1997

 

              BOOKSHELF / POP CULTURE

              Postmodernism a Preamble to the 2000s

              By D. JAMES ROMERO, Times Staff Writer

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 PREV STORY

 

 NEXT STORY

                           As the turn of the century looms with hope and

tension, the

                           word "postmodern" has become de rigueur, a catch-all

                      phrase for the future-leaning literature, philosophies

and subcultures

                      that we hope will take us into the 2000s.

                           But few seem to know what the term actually means.

                      "Postmodern American Fiction: A Norton Anthology" (W. W.

                      Norton, 672 pages, $24.95) helps by presenting such

writers as

                      Thomas Pynchon, William S. Burroughs, Kurt Vonnegut,

Norman

                      Mailer, Mark Leyner, Joyce Carol Oates, William

Gibson, Douglas

                      Coupland, Umberto Eco and Jean Baudrillard, among others.

                           The anthology's well thought-out introduction

gives an excellent

                      definition of postmodernism: It is the melting of

fiction and

                      journalism, of high culture and low culture, of

traditional narrative

                      and nonlinear, nontraditional storytelling.

Postmodernism is a

                      fascination with the future, technology, image and our

ability to

                      communicate and feel.

                           Edited by Paula Geyh, Fred G. Leebron and Andrew

Levy, this

                      paperback tome is not a comprehensive guide to postwar

writing,

                      but it is a fitting introduction. Readers will find

Pynchon's "The

                      Crying of Lot 49," Oates' "The Turn of the Screw" and

Eco's

                      "Postmodernism, Irony, the Enjoyable." The book comes

with a

                      password for a Web site featuring new postmodern works of

                      "hypertext fiction."

                           In a strange twist of media, "Coffeehouse:

Writings From the

                      Web" (Manning Publications, 316 pages, $24.95)

promises to bring

                      the best of a flourishing literary underground (heretofore

                      unrestrained by the demands of publishers and

publishing) to the

                      masses. Edited by Levi Asher and Christian Crumlish, this

                      paperback also features illustrations by Carl

Steadman, co-founder

                      of the legendary online magazine Suck.

                           But the hot spot for popular literature isn't

cyberspace. It's

                      Scotland, where Irvine Welsh ("Trainspotting,"

"Marabou Stork

                      Nightmares") has sparked a new generation of writers

that trains its

                      collective pen on the local downtrodden. "Acid Plaid:

New Scottish

                      Writing" (Arcade Publishing, 256 pages, $13.95)

anthologizes this

                      phenomenon of '90s Scottish "grit-lit"--the work of

the new Scottish

                      beats. Included is a new short story from Welsh ("A

Fault on the

                      Line") and works from other notables, including Gordon

Legge,

                      Alan Warner and Duncan McLean. The book, introduced in

                      paperback, is edited by Harry Ritchie.

                           In "Fugitive Cultures: Race Violence & Youth"

(Routledge, 247

                      pages, $16.95), education professor Henry A. Giroux

examines the

                      effects of popular culture on America's children. The

mix, he

                      reports, isn't always good, from the Disney-fication

of young

                      children to the hyper-real violence that surrounds

teens on movie

                      screens. But Giroux saves his most venomous criticism

for the news

                      media, record companies that produce gangsta rap and

such "public

                      intellectuals" as Rush Limbaugh--who he says are

behind the "racial

                      coding" of violence in America, i.e. the portrayal of

violence as an

                      African American problem. The book, now in paperback,

                      sometimes is coded in sociology speak, but its

conclusions are

                      valuable to parents concerned about the cultural sea

in which their

                      children swim.

                           Among the flotsam they might find is "Generation

X: Field Guide

                      and Lexicon" (Orion Media, 200 pgs, $9.95) by Vann

Wesson, a

                      baby boomer from San Diego who wrote the book with the

                      assistance of several younger writers. The book is a

dire collection

                      of anecdotes roughly defining America's 13th

generation, as well as

                      a guide to youth slang. Many of the entries, however,

are woefully

                      inaccurate ("Techno House Music--A combination of

techno and

                      house music." There is no such genre). Marketers have

reduced the

                      price of the book and now are pushing it in the humor

                      category--"Guaranteed to make you laugh." Indeed.

                           From generation ecstasy comes "Tihkal: The

Continuation"

                      (Transform Press, 804 pages, $24.50) by Alexander & Ann

                      Shulgin, retired cosmonauts of psychedelia. The two

probably have

                      tried every psychedelic drug known to humankind, many

of which

                      were invented by chemist Alexander "Sasha" Shulgin

himself (he is

                      often called the godfather of ecstasy).

                           "Tihkal" is the culmination of their love and

work regarding these

                      drugs. Like its predecessor, "Pihkal," the book starts

with the

                      narrative of the couple's research with drugs, while

the second half

                      features the scientific data. Tihkal's focus is on

tryptamines; taken

                      together, both books cover the entirety of psychedelic

compounds.

                           The conclusion of this aging couple is that these

substances can

                      be very useful for the evolution of the mind. The Shulgins

                      acknowledge the dangers, however, and don't recommend that

                      users get in over their heads.

                           * D. James Romero reviews books about pop culture

every four

                      weeks. Next week: a look at the current magazines.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 14:45:25 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: Like Old Days in the Park--Is It Real or is it Retro?

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Patricia Elliott wrote:

this was a scrap of a poem from my journal, which is a pile of paper

laying in a drawer, occassionally i add a page or note to it.

 

it is from a day that i went out to freds with william and ted morgan.

I thought ted was a spook. on the scrap, the verses were seperated.

 

shooting with the men 1985  by patricia elliott

The tall thin man

leaps to a crouch

opening fire on his own heart.

 

the tall slim eye once again

baring the tattered muscle,

He led me once and then again up to the gun.

Both of us getting past past.

 

I shot fast, He took my hand ,

he sang, he wept and gave me tears.

we walked home through the dark.

 

 

i watched morgan stand stiff, posed,

ignoring me, for who was she

but some ol sow eyed gal.

I am the ghost, the one that suvived.

 

trying to smell the hidden secrets

in the face of the horrid honest man.

ted was green with fear

 if this was a writer.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 18:30:49 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: women beats

 

di Prima is a FEMALE first name Diane....

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Donald E. Winters

Sent:   Thursday, October 16, 1997 11:02 AM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        women beats

 

But those names you mentioned are men?  What's your point? I thought you

wanted

more discussion on women writers?

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:53:05 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Like Old Days in the Park--Is It Real or is it Retro?

 

Patricia - this is wonderful.  do you have more of this?

and who is Ted Morgan (ignorant, here)?

 

ciao,

sherri

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Patricia Elliott

Sent:   Thursday, October 16, 1997 12:45 PM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Re: Like Old Days in the Park--Is It Real or is it Retro?

 

Patricia Elliott wrote:

this was a scrap of a poem from my journal, which is a pile of paper

laying in a drawer, occassionally i add a page or note to it.

 

it is from a day that i went out to freds with william and ted morgan.

I thought ted was a spook. on the scrap, the verses were seperated.

 

shooting with the men 1985  by patricia elliott

The tall thin man

leaps to a crouch

opening fire on his own heart.

 

the tall slim eye once again

baring the tattered muscle,

He led me once and then again up to the gun.

Both of us getting past past.

 

I shot fast, He took my hand ,

he sang, he wept and gave me tears.

we walked home through the dark.

 

 

i watched morgan stand stiff, posed,

ignoring me, for who was she

but some ol sow eyed gal.

I am the ghost, the one that suvived.

 

trying to smell the hidden secrets

in the face of the horrid honest man.

ted was green with fear

 if this was a writer.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 16:59:37 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mitchell Smith <Praetor77@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Corso and Ferlinghetti

 

I have searched the biliographies and can find no mention of a Ferlinghetti

reading of "coney island" poems to jazz OTHER THAN the "Readings in the

Cellar" record by Ferlinghetti and Rexroth. There are other Ferlinghetti

records that do not fit that description: "Tentative Dinner..." (no jazz,

later poems), Assassination Raga (some music, no jazz, later poems),

"Starting From San Fran" (no music, poems from that title). If anyone can

verify Mr. Winters search object, I'm very interested as well.

 

mjs

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:27:10 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sara Feustle <sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Jazz-God

In-Reply-To:  <v01530500b06bd87f8e5d@[204.181.15.86]>

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, Michael Czarnecki wrote:

 

> Sara Feustle wrote:

> >The true jazz-god, and the living Jack Kerouac is an amazingly cool guy

> >named Bill Heid from Detroit. Anybody else know who I'm talking about? He

> >holds like 7 world records for hitch-hiking, and is THE jazz organist

> >right now, and probably forever!

>

> What does it mean that he holds 7 world records for hitchhiking?

>

> Michael

 

        It means he is actually in the Guinness book of World records 6 or

7 times for the longest distance hitch-hiked.  I have the records around

here somewhere, but am too lazy to go get them right now.:) I'll post them

later. Anybody else on here know the guy? His music is the embodyment of

bop, and his life and lifestyle is the epitome of beat.

                --Sara

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:19:22 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle

Comments: To: stauffer@pacbell.net

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stauffer@pacbell.net,.Internet writes:

>Why is it that nothing Nicosia, Maher, or Chaput say or do in this

>matter remind me in any way of anything remotely related to the

>qualities I associate with Jack Kerouac?  How far the apples have fallen

>from the tree.  Reminds me of a nice corporate takeover battle more than

>anything else, or an especially ugly divorce.

 

     kaching, on the money, you are correct sir (carson voice)...

preach it brother, don thy pack and join in the loooooooove

revolution...   makes me sadly wonder what a grumpy old jack would be

like now.... or would he be grumpy? or have rediscovered his soft

lovely dharma tendencies? hmmm...

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:33:44 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      James again and Van the Man

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James:

 

Thanks for the good post about the benefits of having things planned

out.  It is too bad that Jack lacked such foresight.  On the other hand,

it is good that others did it correctly.

 

I also appreciated the comments and lyrics about Alan Watts/Van

Morrison.  That is one of my all time favorite albums by Van, or

anyone.

 

"There's a dream where the contents are visible,

And the poetic Champions compose,

Will you breath not a word of this secrecy,

Will you still be my sweet special rose?

 

Queen of the Slipstream

 

Rinaldo will fix it if I got the words wrong, I bet.

 

What a great album.

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:47:36 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Geese

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Geese

 

This dark, wet, gray evening

Is perfect for geese.

They rise up from damp fields,

Through mist and rain

As one.

Beginning East,

Then wheeling through North

To West they are black

Against the blotted sun, which is

Gray in the distance.

The row undulates.

They seem quite pleased

With this weather

That causes accidents

And feeds lawyers', doctors'

Ambulance attendents' and salesmens'

Children.

They do not need

Rain treads,

To keep a better look out

Or even to care.

The line rises over trees,

Over the horizon,

And they are gone.

Me, I sit at the light, number 48.

But there are more behind me.

In perfect harmony.

Only when we reach

This horizon,

Some go left, some go right

And some drive straight ahead--

Undulating, in perfect oneness,

Like geese with different ponds.

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:16:35 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

Subject:      OTR movie update

In-Reply-To:  <msg1073894.thr-36d2968f.55d4a82@umit.maine.edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Heard a great rumor about the OTR movie from a friend in LA.  Film is

still in pre-production to be directed by Francis Ford Coppola.  But what

Im told is that the movie will be narrated by Jack Kerouac himself!

Apparently Kerouac made a studio quality recording of an "On the Road"

reading.  Its going to be released by Polygram (I think) in conjunction

with the movie whenever it comes out. So rather than have a third person

doing the narration, the idea is to put Kerouac's own voice on the

soundtrack!

 

I've never heard Kerouac's voice or if he does a good reading, but on the

face of it, it seems like a great idea

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 01:49:30 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: OTR movie update

 

Kerouac is a stellar reader!  hope this is true, where'd you get the info

Richard, or is that confidential?

 

ciao,

sherri

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Richard Wallner

Sent:   Thursday, October 16, 1997 5:16 PM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        OTR movie update

 

Heard a great rumor about the OTR movie from a friend in LA.  Film is

still in pre-production to be directed by Francis Ford Coppola.  But what

Im told is that the movie will be narrated by Jack Kerouac himself!

Apparently Kerouac made a studio quality recording of an "On the Road"

reading.  Its going to be released by Polygram (I think) in conjunction

with the movie whenever it comes out. So rather than have a third person

doing the narration, the idea is to put Kerouac's own voice on the

soundtrack!

 

I've never heard Kerouac's voice or if he does a good reading, but on the

face of it, it seems like a great idea

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:54:06 -0500

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From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      carl adkins

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rinaldo  i have really enjoyed the list.

http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/thebeats.htm

 Is carl adkins a country western singer?

I wish that people on the beat-list would look at your list and email

you any pictures that you might be able to use.  I is interesting to me.

I like that tactile sense of seeing their eyes.

patricia

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:07:34 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: OTR movie update

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>I've never heard Kerouac's voice or if he does a good reading, but on

>the

>face of it, it seems like a great idea

 

     Jack reads like an angel.. buy The Jack Kerouac Collection, a set

of three of the cd's jack made with people like Steve Allen, Al Cohn,

Zoot Sims, nice big booklet with it... excellent quality sound...

definitely a must have.  also, for a beautiful reading of McDougal

Street Blues, check out the tribute disc Kerouac Kicks Joy Darkness,

that track is the only one with Kerouac reading, there is an

unbelievable reading of Brooklyn Bridge Blues by Allen, others include

Michael Stipe from REM, Steve Tyler from Aerosmith, Warren Zevon, Matt

Dillon, Hunter Thompson, Bill Burroughs, Patti Smith, really great.

     a side note, check out the last  song on Allen's The Lion for

Real, i was laughing my ass off hearing him sing "fuck me and spank me."

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:09:31 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: OTR movie update

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BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU,.Internet writes:

>Kerouac is a stellar reader!  hope this is true, where'd you get the

>info

>Richard, or is that confidential?

 

   hope it is... i think we can trust someone like Coppola to do it

right...  Scorcesi'd be nice... i think Tarentino would butcher it by

making it too cheaply sensational.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:21:33 -0700

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From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle

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:

>Tyson Ouellette wrote:

>>    ...  i'm quite sure that gerry

>> phil paul are capable of being civil.

>

>

>no i don't think they are, i think if they want to discuss this dead

>hand stuff they should do it off list.

>p

>

Dear Patricia,        Oct 16, 1997

 

        Quite frankly I am getting a bit ticked off.

        I think I have spoken very civilly since my re-entry on the Beat

List yesterday.  What happened, just as it happened with my last attempt to

enter the Beat-List last April, is that Mr. Sampas has two guards posted at

the doors to the Beat List.  And as soon as Nicosia appears, they punch me

out every which way.  So then I appear with blood on my head, and people

like you say, "Oh look, there's that bloody fighter Nicosia again."  But all

Nicosia was doing was walking thru the door.

        Please reread my posts since yesterday.  I suppose the closest you

could say I came to being uncivil was referring to Paul Maher's "Libel

Quarterly."  But this was after he had printed an outrageous claim that I

have "the touch of death"--which is what, a veiled suggestion that I killed

someone?  What did I say that deserved that?  All I did was call for John

Sampas to cooperate with me, instead of fighting me in court, so that we can

have the Kerouac archive properly cared for in a library.  Then I have Mr.

Chaput, the other guard at the door, claiming everything I say is "hogwash"

and "bullshit" and "crap"!  I would say THAT is uncivil, especially when I

was speaking the absolute truth about our phone conversation, as I have

recently demonstrated.

          I suppose Bill Gargan could simply ban the topic of the Kerouac

Estate from the Beat-List, but then these fellas who are posted to keep me

out will have their final victory.  Because while I've been off the list,

they've been going great guns promoting John Sampas.  Bentz Kirby emailed me

the post in which Maher promised everyone (for the nth time) that Mr. Sampas

is truly going to put the archive into a library.  So if they ban the topic,

I'll be silenced, and Maher will go on "just being a journalist," as he

says, and promoting John Sampas from here to Timbuktu.  Now that's not fair

either.

        Perhaps you think there is some other, better alternative.  Please

tell me if you have one.  But if you're going to say I've been uncivil, then

please, show me the examples of my uncivil discourse.

        Respectfully, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 16:34:12 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      What Phil Chaput really Said about the Sampases

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>>Are you for real. I never talked to you about anything except what was

>going on with the archive at U-Mass Lowell because I was concerned about

>it. I wanted to hear both sides of the story. You did 99% of the talking.

>How could you possibly come up with something like this? You are a very

>desperate man to resort to the likes of this. All I can say folks is WOW!

>WOW! WOW! what hogwash. I don't need notes. I know exactly what I said to

>you and I never ever said anything like that. So again you are bull

>shitting the folks on the beat-l ...

 

October 16, 1997

 

Dear Phil,      Oct 16, 1997

 

        What you say to me is highly insulting.  Frankly, I am tired of

being called a liar by you.  But I will try to look at you in the best

light, and say maybe you just don't remember what you said--even though this

conversation took place only a year and a half ago.  So I am going to print

the notes to our phone conversation (which was almost an hour long, the

phone records will show) just as I typed them up right afterward.  I keep

note pads by all my phones, and it is my practice during an important call

to take detailed notes, then to type them up immediately afterward, while

the memories are still fresh and I can still read my own fast scribbles.  I

will swear in any court of law that this is exactly what I heard you say.  I

am a practicing Christian and I do not take swearing lightly.  Moreover, I

bet there are members of the Kerouac Committee who were there the day you

spoke of, who will remember the incident concerning Jim Sampas just as you

recalled it to me.  I believe, at the least, that you owe me an apology:

        P.S.  The only changes I have made from the original transcription

of my notes is to add a few explanations [in brackets, like this] to make

things clearer to the "general reader":

        To paraphrase my esteemed colleague Paul Maher: "I'm a journalist, I

just report what I hear."

 

                Notes from Conversation with Phil Chaput

                April 23, 1996

                Duration of call: approximately 45 minutes

 

 

Phil called, said he had been over to the MEMORY BABE Archive at the Mogan

Center [U Mass Lowell], and that Martha Mayo [the librarian] had told him

the whole archive is closed -- "she said I could only see my father's stuff"

--says he isn't writing a book, he's just curious, he loves Kerouac--

 

I explained to him that after Jim Jones [a scholar from Missouri] had been

turned away [in June 1995] Martha Mayo had told me it was just a mistake,

she had only meant to prevent xeroxing of Kerouac's letters.  Told him I

didn't find out that the archive was still really closed till a scholar

named Shari Krishnan was turned away in March [1996].  Told him Lowell Sun

is afraid to do a story about how the archive is closed.  Told him I'm sick

over the whole thing.

 

Told him how the tapes are deteriorating, that they are cheap cassette

tapes.  Told him that Martha Mayo refuses to dub the tapes.  Phil agreed

that it would be easy for the university to dub the tapes.  He says, "They

have the facilities.  For Chrissakes, my buddy Jimmy Dunleavy is recording a

CD at the university right now."

 

Told him that 100 of the people I interviewed are now dead, incuding major

writers.  [This was even before Ginsberg and Burroughs died, of course.]

Phil said he told Martha, "What about the people who are dead?  How the hell

are you going to get permission from them?" "What if the person who died had

five brothers, do you have to go to all of them?"

 

Phil said he would talk to Dave Perry at the LOWELL SUN, to try to get him

to do a story.  I told him I already sent Perry stuff, including Shari

Krishnan's protests that she's not being allowed to use the archive, that

she can't finish her thesis.  Phil says, "That's bullshit!"  He says he'll

see what he can find out.

 

He says Martha Mayo blamed me for not getting releases, said people can sue

her if she lets people use the archive.  I explained to him copyright law,

fair use, etc.  I explained to him that Sampas [who had objected to Mayo

about the archive being open to the public] does not have the right to keep

people from reading or listening to Jack Kerouac materials.

 

Phil says, "Let's say as a scholar I want Lew Welch's interview, and I get a

transcription of it, and then I in turn use it in a book, can they be sued?

Maybe that's what they're worried about."  I explained to him no, they

couldn't sue the library, because the library is just doing its function as

a library, making material available.  I told him it's the same thing as if

he took ON THE ROAD out of a library, and then he printed his own copy of ON

THE ROAD without Sampas's permission--Sampas couldn't sue the library for

letting him see the book.

 

I told Phil that Sampas had actually called Shari Krishnan in Michigan,

telling her which letters and tapes in my collection he might give her

permission to see!  Told him how Sampas claimed to control this material.  I

said I couldn't understand why the library was so intimidated by him.

 

Phil says I gave him "a whole new read on it."  Said he "doesn't want to get

involved," "doesn't want to get on anybody's side," because he knows John

[Sampas], Tony [Sampas], and also knows me.  Said he had been starting to

take their side, but now that he hears my side, "it's like a whole new world

here."

 

Phil says the MEMORY BABE archive is "an absolute, amazing treasure chest of

information" on Kerouac.  I told him how the LOWELL SUN is saying I may have

some monetary motive [in trying to open the archive again].  I told him I

get no money if somebody uses my archive when they write an article or a

book.  Told him that my interest is purely scholarly.

 

Phil says Mayo claims "Those tapes are fragile, we can't have everybody

looking at them."  He says, "Well shit, that's their friggin problem!"  I

agreed--I said, "Then why the hell don't they copy them?"  Phil says, you

can copy them, and then you can take the copy and copy that 100 times!  He

also says, "To this day they haven't transcribed them yet!"  Phil says he

went to school with the secretary there, says Martha Mayo wasn't there the

first time he went down there, the secretary said, "You're Phil Chaput, you

went to Saint Joe's didn't ya?"  He told her he wanted his father's

transcripts.  They went thru the list, and only 2-3 of his father's tapes

have been transcribed--most of them haven't been.  Phil told her he couldn't

spend five or six hours in the library listening to his father's tapes.  The

secretary told him she'll try to transcribe his father's tapes as soon as

she can get to it.

 

But Phil wisely says she shouldn't be transcribing from the original tapes,

because that will only wear them out faster.  I agreed with him that they

should copy the tapes before they transcribe them.

 

I told him I'm going to file a breach of contract against the University of

Massachusetts, because part of my agreement with the university was that the

collection would be made available to the public [this lawsuit is still in

the works].  I told him that if the case goes to trial, I hoped he would be

a witness for me. He said, "Oh definitely!"

 

We talked about Jan's desire to move her father Jack's body to Nashua.  He

said he originally felt, "That's bullshit, he shouldn't be moved."  But then

said he read in the LOWELL SUN that Stella Sampas also wanted Jack buried in

Nashua.

 

I told him that the reason John Sampas wants the archive closed is because

of the negative things on tape about his family.  I reminded Phil that his

own father had talked to me about the fact that Memere and Stella didn't get

along.  I said now they're trying to say Stella and Memere loved each other,

that's why Memere left her everything.  Phil says, "Well that we know is

bullshit."  Phil says, "We know that Jack himself wasn't too thrilled with

Stella every minute."  He says he hangs around with Billy Koumantzelis and

so "I know exactly what Jack said about Stella."  I told him there's also

stuff on those tapes about Jack planning to divorce Stella when he died.  He

says, "Yeah, I know that!"

 

I told him Bancroft Library in Berkeley would like the MEMORY BABE archive,

that they would pay Lowell to get it, and that they would make all the

materials available, but the University of Lowell won't cooperate.  Phil was

surprised to hear I don't have copies of most of the things in the archive.

He says, "Oh my God, you must be going out of your mind!"

 

We talked about my Vietnam book--I told him it's up to 1,350 pages.

 

I told him I thought Mayo was intimidated.  He says, "I could see she's

scared."  But she's "acting like it's not John," she's blaming it on

"someone from Connecticut."  Says Mayo wouldn't give him the name of the

person.  I told him it was Sampas who called the woman in Michigan [Shari

Krishnan], not "someone from Connecticut."

 

I asked him to support me in getting this into the news--the fact that all

these precious research materials, especially the 300 interviews, are being

buried.  He says, "There's not a question that your book [MEMORY BABE] is

the most detailed of anybody's."  He says he's "tried to stay out of

it"--but he may talk to Dave Perry or post something on the internet.  I

told him I'm not asking him to get involved in Jan's lawsuit, I just want

help in saving the research materials.  He says, "I'm trying to stay

neutral, but this is serious stuff."

 

He says he knows Ellis Amburn real well [the guy Sampas authorized to write

"the definitive Jack Kerouac biography" prior to Sampas's recent deal with

Douglas Brinkley], that he took Amburn all over Lowell, introduced him to

Billy, etc.  He said we should send Amburn to the MEMORY BABE archive and

see if they turn him away.  I said since Amburn's working with Sampas, they

would probably let him in, but it would still be closed to everyone else--so

that wouldn't prove anything.

 

He agreed that when I interviewed people, like his dad, the people knew they

were being tape-recorded, and they knew the stuff they were saying was going

into my book.

 

Phil says, "I'm not on anybody's side, but I know John.  John's been over here."

He says he knew John before he got the Kerouac stuff, and knew Tony [Sampas]

too.  "But regardless of who's fighting who, this is serious stuff."  Said

he hadn't known what was really going on.  Says he's going to talk to his

buddy Jimmy Dunleavy at the Lowell Sun, and Dunleavy knows Dave Perry.

Phil's already talked to Perry but will ask Dunleavy's help to talk to him

some more.

 

Phil suggested bringing up the issue to the Lowell Kerouac Committee, which

he now belongs to.  I said he wouldn't get anywhere, because Sampas is

behind it.  Phil claims there are people on the committee who can't stand

Sampas.  So I said, then why is it every year if Jan Kerouac comes to

Lowell, they won't even mention it at their events?  I also told him how

John Sampas has been cutting down Jan's royalties, even though she's getting

sicker and sicker.  He agreed that she should be treated better.

 

I told him that Jan has gotten no money out of all the Kerouac materials

John Sampas has sold.  I told him John may still be selling things.  He told

me that two Kerouac paintings went up for sale at Skinner's in Boston 3

months ago.  He says I can get a catalogue from Skinner's.  He says the

paintings sold for $3-4,000 each.  He says he also went to the Antiquarian

Book Fair about a year ago and saw a paperback inscribed from Jack to Stella

for sale.  They wanted $5,000 for it.

 

He thanked me again for the article I wrote about his father in MOODY STREET

IRREGULARS.  We talked about Edie [Parker Kerouac, Jack's first wife] being

dead now too.  He says he has a great picture of her that he took at the

dedication [of the Kerouac Memorial].

 

I talked about my vision of scholars coming to Lowell to use my archive, and

how that's now impossible, and that I've got to move the MEMORY BABE archive

somewhere else.  He says, "They probably don't want to let it out of Lowell,

but if they're not gonna take care of it, then they better goddamn do

something."

 

I said I didn't understand how John Sampas could have so much power over

them.  Phil said: "Well you know what it is with Mark Hemenway?  Mark

Hemenway writes THE DHARMA BEAT, and John [Sampas] feeds him original photos

and articles.  If he doesn't kiss his goddamn ass, you think he's ever gonna

get any stuff?"

 

He told a story about Jim Sampas, "Mike's kid," who is always hanging around

with John [Sampas, his uncle].  He says Jim is "doing a CD" of Kerouac,

probably Kerouac songs.  Jim said he wanted to do a presentation of it at

the next Lowell Celebrates Kerouac, and all the committee members had to

vote on his request.  So as a gag Phil told the committee, "I don't think we

should let him."  He laughs: "You should've seen the looks I got!"  He says

he "just wanted to get them going," so he kept saying, "I don't think we

should do it."  When they finally understood that he was joking, someone

said angrily, "Oho!  Real fuckin' funny!"

 

                                                        END OF CONVERSATION

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 21:52:18 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: What Phil Chaput really Said about the Sampases

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Gerald Nicosia wrote:

>

> October 16, 1997

>

> Dear Phil,      Oct 16, 1997

>

>         What you say to me is highly insulting.  Frankly, I am tired of

> being called a liar by you.  But I will try to look at you in the best

> light, and say maybe you just don't remember what you said--even though this

> conversation took place only a year and a half ago.  So I am going to print

> the notes to our phone conversation (which was almost an hour long, the

> phone records will show) just as I typed them up right afterward.  I keep

> note pads by all my phones, and it is my practice during an important call

> to take detailed notes, then to type them up immediately afterward, while

> the memories are still fresh and I can still read my own fast scribbles.

 

<snip>

 

When they finally understood that he was joking, someone

> said angrily, "Oho!  Real fuckin' funny!"

>

>                                                         END OF CONVERSATION

 

rotflmao

 

bet folks are lining up at the phonebooths to call you now!!!

 

dbr

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:01:55 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle

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I have been thinking about my post all day.  I almost posted on it

several times, so i am so glad you wrote.  It was an unfair post.  I was

very interested in your original post. Found it heartening and

enlightening on a subject i was interested in.  The when the attack came

in i was sickened becaused, i thought i knew, that they would wound you

and distract from the message.  I said that i didn't think that the

three of you could be civil was not that you wouldn't be civil but that

i suspected that the communications would not be civil.  I sat here

kicking myself for how i said it.  It was so good to have you  post here

and i should have expressed that. You are a real writer and scholar and

have a great heart. It is an honor for me to get to know you even a

little from the list.  It is both a formal and informal form of

communication that excites me. My post aren't academic and often i am

off beat, but for me to leave the impression that you should not

communicate to the list is not the meaning in my heart.  I will say

ignore the ignoble and pardon me for i don't mean to be persumptive.

patricia

Gerald Nicosia wrote:

>

> :

> >Tyson Ouellette wrote:

> >>    ...  i'm quite sure that gerry

> >> phil paul are capable of being civil.

> >

> >

> >no i don't think they are, i think if they want to discuss this dead

> >hand stuff they should do it off list.

> >p

> >

> Dear Patricia,        Oct 16, 1997

>

>         Quite frankly I am getting a bit ticked off.

>         I think I have spoken very civilly since my re-entry on the Beat

> List yesterday.  What happened, just as it happened with my last attempt to

> enter the Beat-List last April, is that Mr. Sampas has two guards posted at

> the doors to the Beat List.  And as soon as Nicosia appears, they punch me

> out every which way.  So then I appear with blood on my head, and people

> like you say, "Oh look, there's that bloody fighter Nicosia again."  But all

> Nicosia was doing was walking thru the door.

>         Please reread my posts since yesterday.  I suppose the closest you

> could say I came to being uncivil was referring to Paul Maher's "Libel

> Quarterly."  But this was after he had printed an outrageous claim that I

> have "the touch of death"--which is what, a veiled suggestion that I killed

> someone?  What did I say that deserved that?  All I did was call for John

> Sampas to cooperate with me, instead of fighting me in court, so that we can

> have the Kerouac archive properly cared for in a library.  Then I have Mr.

> Chaput, the other guard at the door, claiming everything I say is "hogwash"

> and "bullshit" and "crap"!  I would say THAT is uncivil, especially when I

> was speaking the absolute truth about our phone conversation, as I have

> recently demonstrated.

>           I suppose Bill Gargan could simply ban the topic of the Kerouac

> Estate from the Beat-List, but then these fellas who are posted to keep me

> out will have their final victory.  Because while I've been off the list,

> they've been going great guns promoting John Sampas.  Bentz Kirby emailed me

> the post in which Maher promised everyone (for the nth time) that Mr. Sampas

> is truly going to put the archive into a library.  So if they ban the topic,

> I'll be silenced, and Maher will go on "just being a journalist," as he

> says, and promoting John Sampas from here to Timbuktu.  Now that's not fair

> either.

>         Perhaps you think there is some other, better alternative.  Please

> tell me if you have one.  But if you're going to say I've been uncivil, then

> please, show me the examples of my uncivil discourse.

>         Respectfully, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 23:12:18 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject:      Re: What Phil Chaput really Said about the Sampases

In-Reply-To:  <199710162334.QAA27242@norway.it.earthlink.net>

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Gerry you are a master with the pen to create that from our phone

conversation. Very good! Phil

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:24:38 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: What Phil Chaput really Said about the Sampases

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At 11:12 PM 10/16/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Gerry you are a master with the pen to create that from our phone

>conversation. Very good! Phil

>

Phil,     Oct 16, 1997

        If you disown that conversation, then you, sir, are the liar.  Your

memory is not that poor.  And I will gladly sit down side by side with you

in Lowell, with lie detectors fastened to our respective wrists, to see

which one of us is "creating" and which one telling the truth.

        Yours sincerely, Gerald Nicosia.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:32:06 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael R. Brown" <foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>

Subject:      Re: What Phil Chaput really Said about the Sampases

In-Reply-To:  <3.0.1.32.19971016231218.006a1008@pop.tiac.net>

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On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, Phil Chaput wrote:

 

> Gerry you are a master with the pen to create that from our phone

> conversation. Very good! Phil

 

Could we have an end, please? Or at least some more amusing insults and

put-downs?

 

Aristotle said it. "Irony is more befitting the self-realized man than

buffoonery. The ironic man takes action to amuse himself; the buffoon acts

to amuse others."

 

 

 

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

  Michael R. Brown                        foosi@global.california.com

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

 

                     "Why can't it just be, Michael?"

 

           Simunye, in conversation with Foosi, September 1997

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:47:50 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: let's get our facts straight

Mime-Version: 1.0

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At 01:30 PM 10/16/97 -0400, you wrote:

>i love this...  (John J. Dorfner)

>

Hi, John,    Oct 16, 1997

 

        Glad this all keeps you amused.  I must admit, sometimes it seems to

me too like I've followed Alice thru the Looking Glass.  I'm labelled by the

man who cut off Jan Kerouac's foreign royalties as having "the touch of

death," when I was the person carrying boxes of dialysis fluids, bandages,

and salves to her house every day.  However, I didn't get invited to the

church, so I couldn't proclaim, "Lord, hear my prayer!"  And a young man of

43 or so totally forgets a conversation he had only a year and a half ago,

while even Ronald Reagan with Alzheimer's did better than that.  Yet when I

remind him of the conversation, I become a liar.  You've got a good head on

your shoulders, Johnny.  Can you figure this thing out?  Or is it too absurd

to try?

        Yours for the duration (as my vet friends say),

        Gerry

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 04:08:50 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: What Phil Chaput really Said about the Sampases

 

OK that's IT!!!!  take it OFF the list guys!!!  there is absolutely no reason

to play this out here.  Gerry's original post was completely non-incendiary.

but almost everything since then has caused all 3 of you to regress to

somewhere between the ages of 3 to 5.  sadly, i find myself losing respect for

you as a result.

 

i will not state my opinion on the subject here - it's not well informed

enough anyway - although i have a strong gut reaction to what rings true.

 

right now i am so revolted by this nonsense i can't even express it.  the

reason the courts have to be involved in this whole mess is due to human

selfishness and irrationality.  hardly reflective of anything Kerouac stood

for.

 

please, please, let's honor Jack by trying to show respect for him, his work

and each other.  that is the ONLY way any of this can be solved out of court.

if someone persists in irrationality, then a judge will decide what's right

and it's out of your hands, anyway.

 

a lover of peace and kindness,

sherri

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Phil Chaput

Sent:   Thursday, October 16, 1997 8:12 PM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Re: What Phil Chaput really Said about the Sampases

 

Gerry you are a master with the pen to create that from our phone

conversation. Very good! Phil

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 21:58:46 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: let's get our facts straight

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Gerry,

 

Were you not at one point asked in letters by Jan not to represent

yourself as her spokesperson?

 

JS

 

Gerald Nicosia wrote:

 

  I'm labelled by the

> man who cut off Jan Kerouac's foreign royalties as having "the touch of

> death," when I was the person carrying boxes of dialysis fluids, bandages,

> and salves to her house every day.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 01:46:11 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: OTR movie update

 

I'll go out on a limb and make a prediction.  If this movie is ever made, I

think it will be GREAT!!

 

I'm an optimist by nature.  Any movie will have faults.  But this rumor that

ol Jack himself will narrate is a great omen.  Just do it, and do it well,

why not try?

 

Howard Park

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:04:12 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: women poets

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> Sherri wrote:

 

> well, kids,  i think it's about time we read some poetry together.  how

> bout

> di Prima - would be good to discuss some Beat women's contributions for

> a

> change.

> any takers?

 

I would love to discuss Di Prima.  Can anyone post any of her poems to

the list?

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 09:30:11 +0000

Reply-To:     jhasbro@tezcat.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         John Hasbrouck <jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle

Comments: cc: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

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I support the continued, open discussion of the controversy surrounding

the Kerouac estate. I object to any policing or restriction of postings

that deal with Beat Generation topics.

 

The renewed discussion of the estate battle is important and interesting

to me as a reader and writer. It adds value to the list. I think anyone

genuinely interested in the Beats would feel the same way.

 

It would be unfortunate if this forum were not allowed to continue in a

TOTALLY OPEN FASHION.

 

-John Hasbrouck

--

 

 

*** JOHN HASBROUCK

*** http://www.tezcat.com/~jhasbro

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 09:36:25 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Howl part one "Folding and Unfolding"

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Having contemplated the point of view of the "I saw" that begins Howl

for Carl Solomon far longer than perhaps is sane (:)), I began to scan

the entire section of Part One this morning looking over and back and up

and down and through the sometimes endless stream of "who"'s.  A folding

of sorts came to me that I'll point out here and then think out loud a

bit about what happens after this fold is made and then unfolded.

 

p.9

"I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving

hysterical naked . . ."

 

p.16

"to recreate the syntax and measure of poor human prose and stand before

you speechless and intelligent and shaking with shame, rejected yet

confessing out the soul to conform to the rhythm of thought in his naked

and endless head ..."

 

So it seems to me that these beginnings and endings of Part One of Howl

for Carl Solomon so much say the same thing from different angles from

the point of view of the same "I" having begun trying to place the

hysterical and nakedness of the maddened generation into words and then

at the second snipped portion the same "I" looking back at what has been

done and commenting on the notion of recreation.

 

And so, what lies between these folds when unfolded?  It seems to me on

this Friday morning that each segment can be seen separately between

these two folded phrases.  Each an attempt to capture to recreate the

syntax and measure of the human experience of the hysterical and naked

maddenedness of the generation's best minds.

 

And it seems that each of the segments tells mythic autobiography in

unbelievably condensed form.  I am not nearly familiar enough with the

details of the Beat Generation history to fill in the paint by number

created here.  It seems obvious that the section of the asteriked mother

when placed between these two folds gives birth to Kaddish.

 

Novels, poems, biographies -- written and unwritten -- reside in the

condensations Ginsberg places in each of the recreated syntax and

rhythms of the experiences of his generation within the remainder of the

segments as contrasted within the folds.  (And it seems that the

soundtrack for the recreation is probably saxaphone cries <grin>)....

 

So, to save me years of reading, I'd be interested in other folks on the

list who are lovers of the experiences of the Beat Generation to help

fill in the stories condensed in each segment of the folds.  It seems

that such a process is one of the few methods of appreciating exactly

the depth that Howl for Carl Solomon presents as a poetic autobiography

of a generation.  For in retrospect of this folding and unfolding, it

seems to me, that the "I" in the beginning of Howl for Carl Solomon

re-presents the Beat Generation itself.

 

thanks for reading,

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:02:29 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Donald E. Winters" <winte030@TC.UMN.EDU>

Subject:      estate battle

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

All of you people who are "sharing" the estate battle with all of us on the list

are goddam boring. Why don't you just scream at each other and allow the rest of

us to enjoy the beatific splendor of Beat Generation and culture.  Isn't that

what the BEAT-L. thing was supposed to be all about? Donald

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:14:21 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sudama Adam Rice <sudama@IX.NETCOM.COM>

Subject:      Re: women poets - DiPrima poem

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THE PRACTICE OF MAGICAL EVOCATION

Diane DiPrima

 

The female is fertile, and discipline

(contra naturam) only

          confuses her

               =8BGary Snyder

 

I am a woman and my poems

are a woman=B9s:   easy to say

this.   the female is ductile

and

     (stroke after stroke)

built for masochistic

calm.     The deadened nerve

is part of it:

awakened sex, dead retina

fish eyes;     at hair=B9s root

minimal feeling

 

and pelvic architecture functional

assailed inside & out

(bring forth) the cunt gets wide

and relatively sloppy

bring forth men children only

          female

          is

          ductile

 

woman, a veil thru which the fingering Will

twice torn

twice torn

     inside & out

the flow

what rhythm add to stillness

what applause?

 

 

--

Adam

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:14:19 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle

MIME-Version: 1.0

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>          I suppose Bill Gargan could simply ban the topic of the

>Kerouac

>Estate from the Beat-List, but then these fellas who are posted to keep

>me

>out will have their final victory.  Because while I've been off the

>list,

 

     which raises a point that's been bothering me.  why is it that on

every single list I've ever been on, including here, there's always a

handful of people that think every subject discussed on that list

should be interesting to them or not be posted.  those of you who

continue to whine about this topic being here at all are missing the

point, this list is for beat-related matter, of which this topic surely

is, not beat-related matter that you happen to find interesting.  this

list does not exist to please everyone subscribing to it and givem that

warm fuzzy feeling like everything's ok, there's gonna be negative

stuff, and if you can't handle it being around then you're lacking

simple coping skills... no one's forcing you to read it, if you see

it's something you don't want to read then delete it and move to the

next message, period.  don't scream at other people because their

conversation doesn't inclue you because you happen to hate the topic;

if a topic had to be approved by the entire list before we could

discuss it we wouoldn't get a damn thing done.  there's no reason why a

handful of people cannot discuss something of interest to them here, if

there is enough interest in that subject, which there obviously is

here.

     when you buy a magazine do you pull a fit because there happens to

be an article in it that doesn't interest you.  do you write that

magazine and demand that they cater to your interests? no, course not.

same thing here.  lighten up and roll with the punches already.

     excuse the commentary, just felt it needed to be said.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:24:06 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle

 

DISCUSSION and DEBATE are wonderful. childish, fruitless name-calling and

accusations are not, and hinder anything constructive from resulting.

 

ciao,

sherri

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:28:52 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Czarnecki <peent@SERVTECH.COM>

Subject:      Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>I support the continued, open discussion of the controversy surrounding

>the Kerouac estate. I object to any policing or restriction of postings

>that deal with Beat Generation topics.

>

>The renewed discussion of the estate battle is important and interesting

>to me as a reader and writer. It adds value to the list. I think anyone

>genuinely interested in the Beats would feel the same way.

>

>It would be unfortunate if this forum were not allowed to continue in a

>TOTALLY OPEN FASHION.

>

>-John Hasbrouck

 

I wholeheartedly agree! The list can be moderated by each subscriber by

simply not reading posts about the estate differences. No need to restrict

in any other way. Ideally it would be great if there was no controversy

relating to the estate, but it is what it is and it is relevant. It's all

part of the flow. Hell, Jack and Allen had difficult times with each other

over the years and same with Jack and Neal and Neal and Allen and. . . .

Life isn't all peace, love and bliss.

 

Michael

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:53:18 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: estate battle

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 10:02 AM 10/17/97 -0500, you wrote:

>All of you people who are "sharing" the estate battle with all of us on the

list

>are goddam boring. Why don't you just scream at each other and allow the

rest of

>us to enjoy the beatific splendor of Beat Generation and culture.  Isn't that

>what the BEAT-L. thing was supposed to be all about? Donald

>

 

I agree...we should talk more about John Denver being Beat or the perils of

hitchhiking...that is of infinite more interest! There's nothing more

intellectually stimulating wondering about the status of a film being made

of On the Road and ad infinitum......Paul.

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:59:46 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 03:24 PM 10/17/97 UT, you wrote:

>DISCUSSION and DEBATE are wonderful. childish, fruitless name-calling and

>accusations are not, and hinder anything constructive from resulting.

>

>ciao,

>sherri

>

 

 When did I ever name call? What was it that was childish? Or an accusation

from me? When? I didn't know I was amidst such a genuine audience of

maturity. . . there is to be no fun? Nothing interesting? I think we should

all take your example. Yes...that is what I will do. I will be less of a

child and more of a "mature" "adult" in order to be just like you. Please,

hand me a razor blade and a warm bath, surely such actions are more

desirable than being subjugated to your thought process.   With tongue

planted firmply in cheek, Paul of TKQ. . .

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:36:24 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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Tyson Ouellette wrote:

>

>      when you buy a magazine do you pull a fit because there happens to

> be an article in it that doesn't interest you.  do you write that

> magazine and demand that they cater to your interests? no, course not.

>

would someone be so kind as to give me the directions for changing my

subscription to this "magazine" to a digest format until this year's

verse of the same story ends.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:51:09 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

In-Reply-To:  <v01530501630b80b35865@[204.181.15.86]>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

I believe Allen Ginsberg supported the Sampas family in this debate, for

what thats worth.

 

Ive read that Jan Kerouac accused Allen of selling out, but given the

amount of time Ginsberg put in over the years promoting Kerouac's work

and career, I would respect his opinion on this.

 

Then again, Ginsberg did sell his own papers to Stanford for a cool

million bucks, so who knows.

 

RJW

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:50:24 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Estate

 

As list moderator, I would never try to censor debate on any legitimate

Beat topic.  I've even allowed great leeway on topics that were off the

list.  However, I have asked all listmembers to abide by certain

guidelines in terms of what I've called "civil discourse."  Perhaps I

should publish this guidelines again for the  benefit of new

subscribers.  Listmembers should not insult one another, call each other

names, or accuse each other of crimes.  Listmembers should not violate

copyright law or libel one another.   In the last round of the estate

battle, the list and the university that houses Beat-l was threatened

with legal action.  I have neither the time nor the inclination to deal

with such matters.  I say again it's obvious that several list members

seem to find it difficult to discuss the estate battle in a rational,

unemotional manner.   Given that, I think it is best to take such

discussion of the list.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 09:53:59 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>

Organization: Calgary Free-Net

Subject:      one small voice - a plea

In-Reply-To:  <199710170021.RAA23535@norway.it.earthlink.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

beat-l participants.

sigh.

i have great respect for beat-L and i think that it can be a very valuable

forum for discussion and general community conversation (quite a while

back i described beat-L as a big room/party with conversations coming and

going & people running from one to another cheerly discussing, etc). so

often, it seems, when the matter of the kerouac estate arises, the tone

around these parts becomes more and more confrontational and negative.

        this really disappoints me.

beat literature, in my opinion, needs more and more people to recognize it

& discuss it is an intelligent and civil manner in order for it to gather

the respect that it deserves (for instance i was recently reading _big sky

mind_ and was excited by the comparison of beat lit. to the

trancendentalists, can anyone enlighten me further on emerson, thoreau and

co...?).

        bickering and fighting (insulting, conversation degeneration to

insults, you did it firsts, etc) only divide and create factions within

this forum.

        a forum like beat-L benefits from having published and recognized

authors and poets (of such books as "memory babe", "kerouac at rocky

mount", "articulata", "kerouac quarterly", "kerouac connection", "beat

scene", "kerouac the bootleg era", "second beat", "last of the moccasins"

- all of these have been discussed or appeared in beat-L at some point...)

as well as people who knew or were associated with the beats in a more

primary way (leon, charles plymell) or just general afficianados and

excited fans (antoine and his knowledge of jazz comes to mind), as well

as students and fans of beat literature. THIS IS A VERY EXCITING PLACE!

        i hope that all these people (and all the other who i havent

mentioned) feel comfortable enough to read and aprticipate in group

dicussions without the threat of insult or injury (take that as you wish).

beat-L is a very valuable forum and i think that only WE can keep it that

way - an open place for intelligent discussion and appreciation - not a

place for bickering, in-fighting or insult.

        please, im not limiting what anyone says here - dont get me wrong,

please - i just hope that we can remember that we are adults and lets try

to keep things civil, and when you sense that the discussion is moving

into a more personal nature, or into a style that might be best discussed

in private - please do so.

        this is our community to make or break.

        lets make it together please.

 

        just one small voice

        yrs

        derek

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:23:57 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

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Richard Wallner wrote:

>

> I believe Allen Ginsberg supported the Sampas family in this debate, for what

 thats worth.

 

... so who knows.RJW

 

 Oh speaking of references, where did you get this knowledge or "did you

figure it out by yourself because i recall he refused to  take sides. Is

it from his refusal to take sides in this issue that makes you say

this.  It is this kind of nonsense that establishes facts for many.

 

my breasts

seem to be swelling,

pressing out of my blouse

oh god, they are falling out

smothering the poor innocent lamb.

 

patricia

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:06:34 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>

>my penis

>seem to be swelling,

>pressing out of my pants

>oh god, it is falling out

>smothering the "wanton ambling nymph".

>

>paul

>

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:16:02 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

In-Reply-To:  <3447911D.6EA8@sunflower.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

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On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Patricia Elliott wrote:

 

> Richard Wallner wrote:

> >

> > I believe Allen Ginsberg supported the Sampas family in this debate, for

 what

>  thats worth.

>

>  Oh speaking of references, where did you get this knowledge or "did you

> figure it out by yourself because i recall he refused to  take sides.

 

He had Jan thrown out of the NYU conference (or at least sat there and

allowed it to happen), if that says anything.

 

 

 

email stutz@dsl.org  Copyright (c) 1997 Michael Stutz; this information is

<http://dsl.org/m/>  free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL, and as long

                     as this sentence remains; it comes with absolutely NO

                     WARRANTY; for details see <http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 19:11:39 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Standing Stone a Symphony by Paul McCartney.

In-Reply-To:  <3441B9BB.45ED@sunflower.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

The cover(photo by Linda McCartney) of the disk

(and the cover of the program) offers an image of

a gigantic monolith = standing stone. Paul McCartney

says that Allen Ginsberg liked the title.

 

saluti da

Rinaldo.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:10:09 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jonathan Pickle <jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Derek,

 

_Big Sky Mind_ has been sitting beside my bed for a couple of days now.  I

think of Thoreau to be a precursor to the Alan Watts-"Beat Zen" spirit,

though Thoreau associated more with the "Hindoo" faith.  I found this

introductory essay to be very enlightening.  What all did you get out of

it, the rest of the texts?

 

Jon

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 17:34:09 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

 

Michael,

 

there's a huge difference between having someone thrown out and letting it

happen.  which was it?  and where does one come by such information?  just

curious...

 

ciao, sherri

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:38:33 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Paul A. Maher Jr. wrote:

>

> >

> >my penis

> >seem to be swelling,

> >pressing out of my pants

> >oh god, it is falling out

> >smothering the "wanton ambling nymph".

> >

> >paul

> >

> "We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

>                                            Henry David Thoreau

i laughed so hard.

thanks

p

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:53:02 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: Estate

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 11:50 AM 10/17/97 EDT, Bill Gargan wrote:  I say again it's obvious that

several list members

>seem to find it difficult to discuss the estate battle in a rational,

>unemotional manner.   Given that, I think it is best to take such

>discussion of the list.

>

>

                   Oct 17, 1997

Bill,

        I think you are missing the forest for the trees.  What happened

here is that the same two individuals as last time, Maher and Chaput, have

used the same tactics they used last time, outrageous, inflammatory

language, to verbally mug me the instant I appear.  Two days ago I attempted

to say something in a calm, rational vein about my goals and motivations for

carrying on Jan Kerouac's estate fight.  What happens then?  Paul Maher,

supposedly in his role of "neutral journalist," prints an outrageous claim

by John Sampas that I am a murderer!  Not only such a claim, but in the most

sensational fashion, using phrases like "touch of death" that no respectable

journalist would use even in regard to O.J. Simpson.  Anybody who knows

anything about journalism--and I taught it at the University of

Illinois--knows that a journalist is INDEED HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT HE

PRINTS.  If Mr. Maher, as a responsible journalist, wished to report that

Mr. Sampas had accused me of being a murderer, then at the very least he

needed to indicate what the basis for that charge was. No professional

journalist in the world simply prints his source's phone number and says,

"Call him!"  Even on a metaphorical level, the charge is abusive and has no

rational basis.  Is my touch on Kerouac materials supposed to be murderous?

Then how did that murderous touch produce MEMORY BABE, an award-winning

biography that was called by the WASHINGTON POST only last month "the best

of the Kerouac biographies" (BOOK WORLD, August 31, 1997)?

        By the same token, if Mr. Chaput disputed my memory of our recent

phone conversation, he could have said, "That's not how I remember our

talk"--and then he could have privately asked me to show him my notes to

that conversation.  Instead he announces to the Beat-List, in his own

inflammatory language, that I am a "desperate man" producing only "bullshit"

"hogwash" and "crap."

        Bill, the pattern is not that the topic of the Kerouac Estate

automatically makes everybody talk crazy and abusive.  In fact, there have

been many serious, thoughtful, informative posts here about it.  Just today

there were posts from John Hasbrouck and Michael Czarnecki, free from venom,

that indicated a serious interest in discussing this subject.  The fact is

that the topic immediately provokes frothing, inflammatory language from

only two individuals: Paul Maher, Jr. and Phil Chaput.  Both of those

gentlemen, by their own admission, are part of John Sampas's inner circle.

Which leads me to believe there is a very definite, ulterior motive behind

their vicious attacks on me.  I do not believe they just see stars and hear

explosions as soon as "Kerouac estate" is spoken.  I believe there is an

agenda behind their immoderate attacks on me, and I believe at least part of

that agenda is to get me off the Beat List so that I cannot discuss the

Kerouac Estate.  Once I am gone, they will go ahead and sing the virtues of

John Sampas and their Kerouac Committee just as they always have

        Back in the late 1960's, under the reign of King Richard the

Milhous, we saw the use of such "dirty tricks" by the President of the

United States, to discredit his opponents.  Nixon himself was finally

censured for such abusive behavior.  I think instead of banning the topic of

the Kerouac Estate, you should consider banning abusive language,

inflammatory and baseless accusations ("touch of death"), and, if need be,

the two individuals who continue turning this topic into a circus of dirty

tricks.

        Respectfully, Gerald Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:00:20 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James William Marshall <dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>

Subject:      Re: estate battle & Paul A. Maher Jr.

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>At 10:02 AM 10/17/97 -0500, you wrote:

>>All of you people who are "sharing" the estate battle with all of us on the

>list

>>are goddam boring. Why don't you just scream at each other and allow the

>rest of

>>us to enjoy the beatific splendor of Beat Generation and culture.  Isn't that

>>what the BEAT-L. thing was supposed to be all about? Donald

>>

>

>I agree...we should talk more about John Denver being Beat or the perils of

>hitchhiking...that is of infinite more interest! There's nothing more

>intellectually stimulating wondering about the status of a film being made

>of On the Road and ad infinitum......Paul.

>"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

>                                           Henry David Thoreau

 

   While I do not share Donald's vehemence regarding this thread, I find it

odd that Mr. Maher, who initially claimed to be performing a journalistic

duty by sharing a quote (my apologies for paraphrasing), now resorts to such

sarcasm.  Perhaps he's just having a bad day but it makes me wonder if his

only reason for subscribing to this list is for self-promotion.  And when I

think of all the messages containing nothing but URL's and a "Check out the

new..." signed by Paul A. Maher Jr. of The Kerouac Quarterly, I'm quite sure

that I wonder without good reason.

 

James Marshall

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 17:43:08 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

 

Derek & Jon,

 

I have a book which you might find useful for the transcendentalist's

background, etc.  i bought it used, so i don't know if it's still in print, if

you can't find it and are interested in reading it, i'll see if i can find any

more copies in the used bookstores round here.

 

i have only read a wee bit of it as i bought it right about the time i joined

the list and started reading other things; but it seems like it could be a

good overview of the subject with many essays, poems and excerpts of writings.

 

"The American Transcendentalists"  edited by Perry Miller, published by The

Johns Hopkins University Press in 1981.  Originally published by Doubleday in

1957.

 

ciao,

sherri

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:50:42 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>

Organization: Calgary Free-Net

Subject:      Re: your mail

In-Reply-To:  <3.0.32.19971017131009.0068bed4@maila.wm.edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

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jon

well i admit that im not all the way thru _big sky mind_ (which reminds me

does anyone out there have copies of the issues of tricycle that

serialized kerouacs "wake up"? also - is that the same text that appeared

in _some of the dharma"?) but i do find the exploration of eastern

religion in beat lit rather fascinating - i wonder if it could be

considered bpart of their "rejection" of the status quo of western thought

(at the time) by trying to embrace a religion taht better exemplyfied

their belief in comapssion in what seemed a "compassionless" time?

yrs

derek

 

On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Jonathan Pickle wrote:

> Derek,

> _Big Sky Mind_ has been sitting beside my bed for a couple of days now.  I

> think of Thoreau to be a precursor to the Alan Watts-"Beat Zen" spirit,

> though Thoreau associated more with the "Hindoo" faith.  I found this

> introductory essay to be very enlightening.  What all did you get out of

> it, the rest of the texts?

>

> Jon

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 19:46:37 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      What is the sound of one hand clapping? (fwd) SUN RA

In-Reply-To:  <3441B9BB.45ED@sunflower.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:00:01 -0800

>From: bofus? <bofus@mindspring.com>

>Subject: Re: SUN RA

>

>Jeff Johnson <johnson3@eau.net> wrote:

>>

>> here is a conversation with the late Sun Ra that James Jackson who played

>> oboe, bassoon and a whole bunch of other shit told me about:

>>

>> James Jackson:  I got something you can't possibly figure out.  An

>> immeasurable equation.  Folks been tryin to put an answer to this for

years.

>>

>> Sun Ra:  Oh yeah, Jacks?

>>

>> James Jackson:  What is the sound of one hand clapping?

>>

>> Sun Ra:   The wind.

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 19:53:55 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      una poesia scritta in italiano da Lawrence Ferlinghetti.

In-Reply-To:  <3441B9BB.45ED@sunflower.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

                Alla maniera di Cecco Angiolieri

 

        S'i' fosse foco, non fumerei

        S'i' fosse vento, suonerei soltanto i flauti lirici

        S'i' fosse acqua, non berrei altro che vino

        S'i' fosse dio, mi farei una Dea

        S'i' fosse Papa, mi farei mamma mia

        S'i' fosse mamma, darei natali a molte vergini

        S'i' fosse imperatore, sa' che farei?

        Ucciderei tutti gl'imperatori.

 

        S'i' fosse morte, ritornerei all'utero per ricominciare

        S'i' fosse cieco, troverei un cane

        S'i' fosse un cane, troverei un cieco

        Che vuole fare molte passeggiate ai bordelli.

 

---

written in italian by Lawrence Ferlinghetti

---

 

cari saluti e buon sabato a tutti,

Rinaldo.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 20:07:45 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: archive

In-Reply-To:  <BEAT-L%1997101517244596@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 17.20 15/10/97 EDT,  Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET> wrote:

>The disk that holds the archive for Beat-l is full.   As a result, Fred

>Bogin and I will have to do something to free disk space.  Our plan is

>to download all 1995 files and to erase them from the online archive.  I

>will work on editing the downloaded files and restore those threads that

>I think have archival importance at a later date.  If anyone has any

>interest in keeping all postings to Beat-l for whatever mad reason, now

>would be a good time download those files to your hard drive.

>

>

Bill, please dont'make that Fahrenheit-like project to erase the

beat-L files 1995 or anything other, i've noticed that the entire

beat-L archive is 27,000,000bytes=27 megaByte, if i'm wrong

please have me a touch, i dunno 'cuz of 27 Mega are too much a lot

of disk space on the hard-disk. Please, please, don't...

yr Rinaldo... a merchant of venice...

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:21:39 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

Mime-Version: 1.0

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At 05:34 PM 10/17/97 UT, you wrote:

>Michael,

>

>there's a huge difference between having someone thrown out and letting it

>happen.  which was it?  and where does one come by such information?  just

>curious...

>

>ciao, sherri

>

Hi, Sherri,       Oct 17, 1997

 

        I was there, I got thrown out along with Jan (and also Jacques

Kirouac, 70-year-old founding president of the Kerouac Family Association

from Quebec), so I can tell you my version.  You can also read what I wrote

about it on Joe Grant's website, www.bookzen.com.  My article there is

called "Kerouac-gate at NYU."

        Jan had been refused permission to participate in the conference by

Helen Kelly, NYU's program director, who was working closely with the Sampas

family, Ann Charters, and Allen Ginsberg.  So Jan paid $120 to get into the

conference about her father.  Just as the conference began, Jan approached

Allen Ginsberg, who had just taken the lecturn.  Jan had her elderly Quebec

cousin by her side.  Jan wanted to ask Allen, her godfather, if she could

have five minutes to speak to the audience.  Specifically, she wanted to

tell them that the New York Public Library and the Bancroft Library were

both willing to pay one million dollars to acquire the whole Kerouac

Archive.  She wanted to call upon John Sampas to work with her in getting

her father's archive into one of those libraries.  That was all she intended

to say.

        Immediately Helen Kelly fingered Jan, and university police rushed

up to grab both Jan and Jacques.  As the police began removing them from the

hall, I in turn stood up and yelled to Allen, who was standing mutely on the

stage: "Allen, you can't let this happen!  You can't let Jan Kerouac be

dragged out of a Kerouac Conference!"  Kelly fingered me, and the police

then began removing me too.

        Allen was standing like a befuddled old man, muttering into the

microphone that "this is all irrelevant!"  I yelled back at him--remember,

Allen and I had spent 100's of hours in each other's company over a 20 year

period, I had had dinner with Allen at his house several times, I had even

slept at his apartment in New York and his house in Boulder--I yelled to

Allen, "For God's sake, Allen!  It's not irrelevant!  This is Jack's

daughter!  It's about his papers!"

        Then Allen said, still muttering, "OK, let's take a vote."  But bear

in mind, there's all kinds of noise from the crowd, Jan's supporters in the

back of the room are yelling, most of the crowd doesn't know what the hell

is going on.  Allen mutters: "How many people want to listen to them?"  Only

a few hands go up, because most people don't even know this is Kerouac's

daughter, Kerouac's biographer, and the president of the Kerouac Family

Association.  Then Allen says more loudly: "How many people would like the

program to start now?"  And of course a lot more hands go up, because people

want the program to start.  They don't even know what they've voted to miss.

        So it's a complex story, but yes, I do hold Allen accountable.  He

sat on a witness stand during the trial of the Chicago Seven and told the

jury that Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Ruben had a constitutional right to cry

"Revolution!" in the streets of America.  But he would not stand up for the

right of his best friend's daughter, his goddaughter, to speak five minutes

about her own father.

        Go figure.

        Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:58:15 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>

>   While I do not share Donald's vehemence regarding this thread, I find it

>odd that Mr. Maher, who initially claimed to be performing a journalistic

>duty by sharing a quote (my apologies for paraphrasing), now resorts to such

>sarcasm.  Perhaps he's just having a bad day but it makes me wonder if his

>only reason for subscribing to this list is for self-promotion.  And when I

>think of all the messages containing nothing but URL's and a "Check out the

>new..." signed by Paul A. Maher Jr. of The Kerouac Quarterly, I'm quite sure

>that I wonder without good reason.

>

>James Marshall

>Yes...you are the intuitive one, but unlike others, I have a constructive

agenda and I do contribute to this list. Sarcasm, I feel, is as much my

right as anybody's.

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:52:40 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

In-Reply-To:  <3447911D.6EA8@sunflower.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Patricia Elliott wrote:

 

>

>  Oh speaking of references, where did you get this knowledge or "did you

> figure it out by yourself because i recall he refused to  take sides. Is

 

Not only did Ginsberg have Jan Ke rouac thrown out of the conference, he

was sitting next to John Sampas the whole time.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:49:13 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Like Old Days in the Park--Is It Real or is it Retro?

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Ted Morgan is a journalist who writes biographies.  I

recall hearing a mention of his having written one about

either Ginsberg or Kerouac.  I read a pretty good one he

wrote about Somerset Maughm.

 

Mike Rice

 

At 08:53 PM 10/16/97 UT, you wrote:

>Patricia - this is wonderful.  do you have more of this?

>and who is Ted Morgan (ignorant, here)?

>

>ciao,

>sherri

>

>----------

>From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Patricia Elliott

>Sent:   Thursday, October 16, 1997 12:45 PM

>To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>Subject:        Re: Like Old Days in the Park--Is It Real or is it Retro?

>

>Patricia Elliott wrote:

>this was a scrap of a poem from my journal, which is a pile of paper

>laying in a drawer, occassionally i add a page or note to it.

>

>it is from a day that i went out to freds with william and ted morgan.

>I thought ted was a spook. on the scrap, the verses were seperated.

>

>shooting with the men 1985  by patricia elliott

>The tall thin man

>leaps to a crouch

>opening fire on his own heart.

>

>the tall slim eye once again

>baring the tattered muscle,

>He led me once and then again up to the gun.

>Both of us getting past past.

>

>I shot fast, He took my hand ,

>he sang, he wept and gave me tears.

>we walked home through the dark.

>

>

>i watched morgan stand stiff, posed,

>ignoring me, for who was she

>but some ol sow eyed gal.

>I am the ghost, the one that suvived.

>

>trying to smell the hidden secrets

>in the face of the horrid honest man.

>ted was green with fear

> if this was a writer.

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:49:19 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: What Phil Chaput really Said about the Sampases

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 08:24 PM 10/16/97 -0700, you wrote:

>At 11:12 PM 10/16/97 -0400, you wrote:

>>Gerry you are a master with the pen to create that from our phone

>>conversation. Very good! Phil

>>

>Phil,     Oct 16, 1997

>        If you disown that conversation, then you, sir, are the liar.  Your

>memory is not that poor.  And I will gladly sit down side by side with you

>in Lowell, with lie detectors fastened to our respective wrists, to see

>which one of us is "creating" and which one telling the truth.

>        Yours sincerely, Gerald Nicosia.

>

>

And instead of a traditional lie detector, a studio quality voice-0ver

from the Great Kerouac himself will render a verdict from somewhere in

the Beat Ethosphere to those gathered in Lowell.  It will be wonderful!

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:49:22 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

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At 11:23 AM 10/17/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Richard Wallner wrote:

>>

>> I believe Allen Ginsberg supported the Sampas family in this debate, for what

> thats worth.

>

>... so who knows.RJW

>

> Oh speaking of references, where did you get this knowledge or "did you

>figure it out by yourself because i recall he refused to  take sides. Is

>it from his refusal to take sides in this issue that makes you say

>this.  It is this kind of nonsense that establishes facts for many.

>

>my breasts

>seem to be swelling,

>pressing out of my blouse

>oh god, they are falling out

>smothering the poor innocent lamb.

>

>patricia

>

>

Dear Patty,

 

I would like to be there when that is happening.  I went

to Nashville last Saturday morning.  When I got back the

first war I had ever witnessed had broken out on the Beat

list.  I thought the dialogue was fairly tepid here since

I joined last summer.  Its great to see the list reacting

like a newsgroup for a change even if I don't want to argue

any of these issues.

 

While in Nashville, I stopped into a number of old record

shops like the The Ernest Tubb record store on Broadway and

searched for Beat archive material.  Just kidding about that.

I shopped a number of used CD and record stories looking for

a copy of Brooke Benton-40 Greatest Hits which includes the

Dinah Washington duets, and is no longer manufactured.  Also,

I was looking for any CD which contains the songs of mid sixties

folksinger Verdele Smith.  All I found were two singles with

Tar & Cement, a favorite of mine, on one side of each.  Does

anyone know what happened to her.  And does anyone know where

I might acquire CDs by these less than gigantic recording

artists?  I have checked many stores and several internet old

CD sites.

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:39:05 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jonathan Pickle <jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>

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Sounds good.  I'll look for it around here too.

 

Jon

 

At 05:43 PM 10/17/97 UT, you wrote:

>Derek & Jon,

>

>I have a book which you might find useful for the transcendentalist's

>background, etc.  i bought it used, so i don't know if it's still in

print, if

>you can't find it and are interested in reading it, i'll see if i can find

any

>more copies in the used bookstores round here.

>

>i have only read a wee bit of it as i bought it right about the time i joined

>the list and started reading other things; but it seems like it could be a

>good overview of the subject with many essays, poems and excerpts of

writings.

>

>"The American Transcendentalists"  edited by Perry Miller, published by The

>Johns Hopkins University Press in 1981.  Originally published by Doubleday in

>1957.

>

>ciao,

>sherri

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:50:34 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: OTR movie update

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At 08:16 PM 10/16/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Heard a great rumor about the OTR movie from a friend in LA.  Film is

>still in pre-production to be directed by Francis Ford Coppola.  But what

>Im told is that the movie will be narrated by Jack Kerouac himself!

>Apparently Kerouac made a studio quality recording of an "On the Road"

>reading.  Its going to be released by Polygram (I think) in conjunction

>with the movie whenever it comes out. So rather than have a third person

>doing the narration, the idea is to put Kerouac's own voice on the

>soundtrack!

>

>I've never heard Kerouac's voice or if he does a good reading, but on the

>face of it, it seems like a great idea

>

>

 

If you've never heard Lerouac's voice and have a computer that can play

sound go to

 

http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_speaks/kerouacspeaks.html

 

There are a lot of short sound snips of kerouac.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:45:46 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jonathan Pickle <jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>

Subject:      Re: your mail

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Derek,

They are separate works as far as I have understood.  I have not seen these

issues of Tricycle - it is not sold anywhere within walking distance of the

College.  I have asked earlier on the list, does any one know if Tricycle

has published the serialized version into one volume?

 

I agree - I find the Eastern aspect of the Beats fascinating.  I really

enjoy Alan Watts' essay "Beat Zen, Square Zen, and Zen"  it's on the net

somewhere I'm sure.  As far as their rejection oof the status quo - I don't

think so.  Rather I see it as a sincere search for something to make sense

of their lives - the rejection aspect comes in their questioning the dogmas

of the society.  That seems like more of a rejection than accepting an

Eastern perspective.

 

Jon

 

At 11:50 AM 10/17/97 -0600, you wrote:

>jon

>well i admit that im not all the way thru _big sky mind_ (which reminds me

>does anyone out there have copies of the issues of tricycle that

>serialized kerouacs "wake up"? also - is that the same text that appeared

>in _some of the dharma"?) but i do find the exploration of eastern

>religion in beat lit rather fascinating - i wonder if it could be

>considered bpart of their "rejection" of the status quo of western thought

>(at the time) by trying to embrace a religion taht better exemplyfied

>their belief in comapssion in what seemed a "compassionless" time?

>yrs

>derek

>

>On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Jonathan Pickle wrote:

>> Derek,

>> _Big Sky Mind_ has been sitting beside my bed for a couple of days now.  I

>> think of Thoreau to be a precursor to the Alan Watts-"Beat Zen" spirit,

>> though Thoreau associated more with the "Hindoo" faith.  I found this

>> introductory essay to be very enlightening.  What all did you get out of

>> it, the rest of the texts?

>>

>> Jon

>>

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:59:16 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: Like Old Days in the Park--Is It Real or is it Retro?

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Mike Rice wrote:

>

> Ted Morgan is a journalist who writes biographies.  I

> recall hearing a mention of his having written one about

> either Ginsberg or Kerouac.  I read a pretty good one he

> wrote about Somerset Maughm.

 

 

gee, i would never have said that.

p

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:13:23 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Hayward <hayward@SFU.CA>

Subject:      Van Morrison and the Beats

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Check out the following page (part of the Van Morrison home page(s)) for

Van Morrison references to Kerouac et al:

 

        http://www.harbour.sfu.ca/~hayward/van/glossary/kerouac.html

 

You can use the cross-linking to track down other references in Van's lyrics.

 

...Michael

 

>Date:    Thu, 16 Oct 1997 14:17:32 -0400

>From:    Michael Czarnecki <peent@SERVTECH.COM>

>Subject: Re: Van Morrison.

>

>>> Alan Watts Blues                by Van Morrison

>>

>>What album is this from?  I'm a big fan but don't recognize this one.  Of

>>course he's got a song list that would stretch the length of Italy so I'm

>>not surprised.

>>

>>------------------

>>Alex Howard

>

>Poetic Champions Compose. 1987.

>

>Van refers quite often to beat references.

>In "Cleaning Windows" from Beautiful Vision, 1982

>

>"I went home and read my Christmas Humpheries book on Zen.

>Curiosity killed the cat,

>Kerouac's Dharma Bums and On the Road.

>What's my line, I'm happy cleaning windows."

>

>Also, in "On Hyndford Street" from the double release HYmns To the Silence

>

>"And reading Mr. Jellyroll

>and Big Bill Broonzy

>and"Realy the Blues by Mezz Mezzrow

>and Dharma Bums by Jack Kerouac

>over and over again."

>

>I'm sure there's other songs with beat references but these are the first

>ones that come to mind.

>

>I've always seen Van as one of the real artists in the pop music field,

>doing what he wants to do as an artist and not worrying about record sales

>and pleasing the public very much.

>

>Michael

 

Michael Hayward                            Email: hayward@sfu.ca

Himie Koshevoy Publishing Lab              Simon Fraser University

Tel: (604) 291-5032                        515 West Hastings Street

Fax: (604) 291-5060                        Vancouver, B.C.

WWW: http://www.harbour.sfu.ca/~hayward/   Canada V6B 5K3

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:39:38 -0400

Reply-To:     Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

In-Reply-To:  <UPMAIL14.199710171733550772@classic.msn.com>

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On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Sherri wrote:

 

> there's a huge difference between having someone thrown out and letting it

> happen.  which was it?  and where does one come by such information?

 

Well, I was there, I saw it. I just read Nicosia's post, and it reads pretty

much like how I remember. I remember the "vote," but I -- like many people

there, I can guess -- didn't know it was Jan Kerouac until later, when I was

told. Whover Jan and her companion was, it was obvious by the way the

conversation went that they knew AG, and it was weird seeing them get thrown

out etc. The convention was taped, there's a several-tape video out of it

that you can buy, and I assume that little scene made the tape (anybody

know? I am dyin' to see those tapes btw).

 

 

email stutz@dsl.org  Copyright (c) 1997 Michael Stutz; this information is

<http://dsl.org/m/>  free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL, and as long

                     as this sentence remains; it comes with absolutely NO

                     WARRANTY; for details see <http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:20:44 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck (fwd)

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[this was meant for the list... btw sherri i'm almost positive that

water row stocks the tape...]

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 97 20:12:06 UT

From: Sherri  <love_singing@classic.msn.com>

To: Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>

Subject: RE: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

 

thanks to both Michael and Gerry for the info.  i too would be interested in

this video.  Jeff Weinberg, Jo Grant or Gary Glazner - any of you sell it?

 

ciao,

sherri

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:17:31 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>

Organization: Calgary Free-Net

Subject:      Re: your mail

In-Reply-To:  <3.0.32.19971017144546.0068a4e8@maila.wm.edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Jonathan Pickle wrote:

(snip)

> I agree - I find the Eastern aspect of the Beats fascinating.  I really

> enjoy Alan Watts' essay "Beat Zen, Square Zen, and Zen"  it's on the net

> somewhere I'm sure.  As far as their rejection oof the status quo - I don't

> think so.  Rather I see it as a sincere search for something to make sense

> of their lives - the rejection aspect comes in their questioning the dogmas

> of the society.  That seems like more of a rejection than accepting an

> Eastern perspective.

jon

good point - i hadnt really thought all that out beore i wrote - of

course, kerouac (for instance) didnt reject catholicism thru-out his life,

but rather tempered it with buddhism and tried to combine differnet

religions (as tonklinson (sp?) mentions in _big sky mind_ he meditated and

even fasted for ramadan). the best way that he could make sens eof his

"role" and his place with in the burgeoning 50's culture was to be drawn

to religion and meditation?

        i guess trying to define why someone is drawn religiously towards

something is a bit of a fallacy, isnt it?

        but it does seem that religion (for instance kerouac defining

"beat" as "beatific") plays a very large role in beat lit in general

(kerouac, ginsberg, snyder, saijo, welch, diprima, waldman, etc)...

yrs

derek

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:51:50 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

In-Reply-To:  <199710171821.LAA06961@iceland.it.earthlink.net>

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Maybe it does read too much into it though to say that Allen therefore

opposed Jan's ideas.

 

However, though he was her daughter, Jan was not anywhere near as close

to Jack as Ginsberg or his in-laws the Sampases.  (You mention in your

book that Jan only ever met Jack twice right?)

 

So who is moare qualified to judge what Jack would have wanted?  Im not

taking sides, just wondering how anyone could know for sure.

 

Richard W.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:52:30 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Shawn Vlad <svlad@CEHS.SIU.EDU>

Subject:      my first posting and my first poem for you all.

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Content-Type: text/plain

 

Well, given the amount of banter with this estate junk I thought I would

lighten things up and post a poem.

I have been working on a "duality" genre and have a couple of works to

show off eventually.  If you have any comments please respond to

gradvlad@hotmail.com.

 

Untitled

 

Green envy.

Slowly,

Slides.

 

Down my through

Like a.

Lubricated.

 

Piston.

 

copyrighted and all that junk...

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 21:20:27 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: your mail

 

Jon & Derek,

 

perhaps spirituality would be a better term, as the Latin root of the word

religion includes the meaning "obligation, bond", which would seem to go

against the grain of the freedom that the beats sought.  i have always thought

that many of the beats were looking for the linking threads in their spiritual

explorations.  but perhaps that's because that's my slant...  just always

thought that the beats sought to get down to the roots of things, the core of

what is and as such, ignored what they found to be superfluous in various

schools of spiritual thought and held on to what rung true for them.

 

just a thought...

 

ciao,

sherri

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:59:14 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

In-Reply-To:  <v01530501630b80b35865@[204.181.15.86]> from "Michael Czarnecki"

              at Oct 17, 97 11:28:52 am

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> >I support the continued, open discussion of the controversy surrounding

> >the Kerouac estate. I object to any policing or restriction of postings

> >that deal with Beat Generation topics.

> >

> >-John Hasbrouck

>

> I wholeheartedly agree! The list can be moderated by each subscriber by

> simply not reading posts about the estate differences. No need to restrict

> in any other way. Ideally it would be great if there was no controversy

> relating to the estate, but it is what it is and it is relevant. It's all

> part of the flow. Hell, Jack and Allen had difficult times with each other

> over the years and same with Jack and Neal and Neal and Allen and. . . .

> Life isn't all peace, love and bliss.

>

> Michael

 

I must say I find it unbelievable that anybody who lived through

the Spring '97 version of the Gerry/Phil/Paul show would actually

like to sit through a rerun, but I know you guys were both around

last time, so what can I say but "It takes all kinds"!

 

Personally, I just set my list subscription to digest form, which

means I'll get all the posts in a single mail once a day.  David

Rhaesa asked how this is done: you send mail to listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu

(any subject header is okay) with the text "set beat-l digest".

Takes a few hours to process, and when it does you get a mail

telling you how to reverse it if/when you want to.

 

I agree that life isn't all peace and love and bliss -- but I

always choose my battles, and I don't choose this one.

 

------------------------------------------------------

| Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com                   |

|                                                    |

|    Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |

|     (the beat literature web site)                 |

|                                                    |

|        "Coffeehouse: Writings from the Web"        |

|          (a real book, like on paper)              |

|             also at http://coffeehousebook.com     |

|                                                    |

|              *---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---* |

|                                                    |

|                Mister, I ain't a boy, no I'm a man |

------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 18:05:54 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Digest Information (was Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck)

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Levi Asher wrote:

>

> Personally, I just set my list subscription to digest form, which

> means I'll get all the posts in a single mail once a day.  David

> Rhaesa asked how this is done: you send mail to listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu

> (any subject header is okay) with the text "set beat-l digest".

> Takes a few hours to process, and when it does you get a mail

> telling you how to reverse it if/when you want to.

>

 

Thanks L.A.

 

dbr

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 19:42:58 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         John J Dorfner <Kirouack@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: jazz

 

how about...

 

charlie christian

coleman hawkins

jimmy smith

joe williams

dave brubeck

zoot simms

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 19:54:29 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject:      NYU Beat Conference Video Tapes

 

For those of you who asked about videos of NYU Beat conference, May 1994

(when Jan and Gerry were booted out), Yes, we sell tapes of the

conference....None of the tapes have the hassle scenes with Jan and Gerry but

they all do have panel discussions and talks with various Beat legends and

participants:

 

1. The NY Beat Genration Show: Volume one - History and Overview

of Beat Generation. With Charters, Ginsberg, Amram, Carolyn Cassady, Corso,

Ferlinghetti, Joyce johnson, Hettie Jones, Hunter Thompson, and others.

2. The NY Beat Generation Show:Volume two - Women and The Beats. Jan Kerouac,

Carolyn Cassady, Hettie Jones, Joyce Johnson, Anne Waldman.

3. The NY Beat Generation Show: Volume  three - "Music Moves The Spirit."

Performances byDavid Amram, Ginsberg, Ted Joans, Ray Manzarek (Doors) and

Michael McClure, Terry Southern.

 

Also available:

 

4."The Poetable JackKerouac & Selected Letters 1940-56."

March 15, 1995. St Mark's Poetry Center, NYC. Hosted by Ann Charters and

Allen Ginsberg. In celebration of the two Kerouac books, there was a all-star

reading with Charters, Clark Coolidge, Dave Van Ronk, Ginsberg, Amram, Ed

Sander, Lee Ranaldo, Jan Kerouac, and others.

 

5. "Ginsberg Sings Blake." A concert of 30 songs performed by Allen - lyrics

by William Blake. Songs of Innocence/Songs ofExperience.

 

6. Beat Legends: Gregory Corso. 1991 historic greenwich Village

Reading. 55 mins.

 

7. Beat Legends: Allen GINSBERG

92 MINS. 1992 readIng in NYC.

 

8. Ray Bremser: The Jazz Poems. 1994 NYC. Bremser reads his jazz/Beat poetry

in his hotel room...Bremser is Bob Dylan's favorite Beat poet....

 

All tapes are $39.95 each. Shipping extra.

All videos produced by Thin Air Video. Sometimes the editor gets a little too

creative (IMO) with special effects but these tapes have sold well here for

the past three years.....

Any questions, let me know.....

MC/Visa/Check/Money ORDER. Satisfaction guaranteed (as usual)

Thanks -

Jeffrey

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 17:06:23 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: NYU Beat Conference Video Tapes

Mime-Version: 1.0

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At 07:54 PM 10/17/97 -0400, you wrote:

>For those of you who asked about videos of NYU Beat conference, May 1994

>(when Jan and Gerry were booted out), Yes, we sell tapes of the

>conference....None of the tapes have the hassle scenes with Jan and Gerry...

 

Once again we get the edited version of history.  What did they do, burn the

tape with me and Jan on it?  Anybody connected with NYU care to respond?

        --Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 17:12:16 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: NYU Beat Conference Video Tapes

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 07:54 PM 10/17/97 -0400, you wrote:

>For those of you who asked about videos of NYU Beat conference, May 1994

>(when Jan and Gerry were booted out),

 

Hi, Jeffrey,     Oct 17, 1997

 

        Guess what?  You've got the wrong date.  In May, 1994, Jan and I

were honored guests; we even had our official badges.  That was the Beat

Generation Conference.  (We just didn't get to sleep in the same dormitory

with Ann Charters or to sit at the head table with her.)  It was in June

1995, at the Kerouac Conference, when we barely got thru door before getting

tossed out.

        Just trying to keep history straight.

        --Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 19:47:54 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck (fwd)

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.LNX.3.95.971017161930.14616H-100000@devel.nacs.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>[this was meant for the list... btw sherri i'm almost positive that

>water row stocks the tape...]

>---------- Forwarded message ----------

>Date: Fri, 17 Oct 97 20:12:06 UT

>From: Sherri  <love_singing@classic.msn.com>

>To: Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>

>Subject: RE: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

>

>thanks to both Michael and Gerry for the info.  i too would be interested in

>this video.  Jeff Weinberg, Jo Grant or Gary Glazner - any of you sell it?

>

>ciao,

>sherri

 

 

Jo Grant here.

 

 No I do not have it, but I'll bet an eye tooth that the powers that ran

that conference have edited out anything that was on tape showing Jan, the

seniorKeroauc and Gerry getting a police escorted heave-ho from the

conference.

 

If the tapes actually show that incedent I'll want a copy.

 

j grant

 

 

        Small Press Authors and Publishers display books

                        FREE

                           at

                            BookZen

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             402,900 visitors - 07-01-96 to 07-01-97

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 19:49:42 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.971017164904.27508A-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>Maybe it does read too much into it though to say that Allen therefore

>opposed Jan's ideas.

>

>However, though he was her daughter, Jan was not anywhere near as close

>to Jack as Ginsberg or his in-laws the Sampases.  (You mention in your

>book that Jan only ever met Jack twice right?)

>

>So who is moare qualified to judge what Jack would have wanted?  Im not

>taking sides, just wondering how anyone could know for sure.

>

>Richard W.

 

Read Jack's last letter, written to his nephew the day before he died. If

you do not have a copy I'll send you one--even tho I have been threaten

with law suits by John Sampas over the copy I have.

 

j grant

 

 

        Small Press Authors and Publishers display books

                        FREE

                           at

                            BookZen

                        http://www.bookzen.com

             402,900 visitors - 07-01-96 to 07-01-97

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 20:53:06 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: NYU Beat Confer...

 

Hey, thanks for setting me straight on the dates, Gerry!

Jeffrey

WRB

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:44:39 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: women poets - DiPrima poem

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

> Sudama Adam Rice wrote:

>=20

> THE PRACTICE OF MAGICAL EVOCATION

> Diane DiPrima

>=20

> The female is fertile, and discipline

> (contra naturam) only

>           confuses her

>                =8BGary Snyder

>=20

> I am a woman and my poems

> are a woman=B9s:   easy to say

> this.   the female is ductile

> and

>      (stroke after stroke)

> built for masochistic

> calm.     The deadened nerve

> is part of it:

> awakened sex, dead retina

> fish eyes;     at hair=B9s root

> minimal feeling

>=20

> and pelvic architecture functional

> assailed inside & out

> (bring forth) the cunt gets wide

> and relatively sloppy

> bring forth men children only

>           female

>           is

>           ductile

>=20

> woman, a veil thru which the fingering Will

> twice torn

> twice torn

>      inside & out

> the flow

> what rhythm add to stillness

> what applause?

>=20

> --

> Adam

 

Thanks for posting this! I really liked "female is ductile" theme; it's=20

really something to think about.

DC=20

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 21:51:29 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Comments on the Estate Battle

In-Reply-To:  <msg1071644.thr-36d2968f.55d4a82@umit.maine.edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Before I comment I should make it clear to the list that I am about as far

from being a student of the Beats, a beat scholar, or any kind of a scholar

as a person can get. I've read a little. That reading provided me with

information about what I believe Jack Keroauc would to do with his

archives. There's not a beat scholar who doesn't know where JK would have

everything--if he had it to do over again. The archives would be in a

library safe, secure sand available to study.

 

Regarding the law suits that Gerry Nicosia is pursuing--at the explicit

written request of Jan Keroauc please remember this:  A victory in the

courts for Jan Keroauc will be a victory for Jack Kerouac and all Keroauc

students, teachers, researchers and readers.

 

Jack Keroauc wanted his archives available to the public.

Jan Keroauc wanted his archives safe and available to the public.

Gerry Nicosia promised Jan Keroauc that he would carry out her wishes. He

is doing so.

 

Jan's request to Gerry is part of her will. Her will was recorded and is

legal.John Sampas and Jan's ex-husband are trying to get her will changed.

If they were trying to get lines deleted from one of Jan's books every

writer in the country would be up in arms. But a writer's will appears to

interest no one except a few people who were close to her when she died and

a few others who have much to gain by getting Nicosia removed as Jan's

literary executor.

 

After including the request in her will, and shortly before her death, she

had Gerry promise that nothing would keep him from fulfilling her requests

to save her father's archives. I know this because she told me so and Gerry

said it was true when I asked him. So Gerry is tied to the death-bed

request of a friend who had been completely abandoned by her ex-husband,

and was being cheated out of royalties by John Sampas--cheated out of money

she needed for medical care. She was very much alone and she told me,

"Gerry Nicosia is the only person I absolutely trust."

 

As a result:

 

Gerry is being financially hammered at every turn. Again and again, on

Jan's behalf he is away from family. The fact that he faces financial

problems because of his promise to Jan has not affected his commitment and

I'm certain it never will.

.

When the suits on behalf of Jan are over I believe the locks will come off

all the Keroauc material, the sale of items from the archives will stop,

and Jan's wishes (and that reads Jack's wishes) will be fulfilled.

 

When all is said and done Gerry MIGHT get his legal expenses covered.

 

As for John Sampas' comment that Gerry's   "...poisoned hand will never

touch the Kerouac archive. His touch is the touch of death." one has only

to read "Memory Babe: A Critical Biography of Jack Keroauc" to know that

this remark is a portrait of John Sampas and unrelated to Gerry Nicosia

whose reputation for research excellence and honesty is established.

 

j grant

 

PS: To the Special Collections librarian where the Memory Babe archive is

housed:  The fact that you are not making copies of the taped interviews

that are part of that colletion--to insure that the conversations are

preserved--is a literay outrage.  A time will come when you will have to

justify the fact that you are not caring for those tapes to the best of

your ability. How will you answer your fellow preservation librarians when

they ask?  How will your colleagues judge your lack of action if those

priceless interviews are lost forever?

 

 

        Small Press Authors and Publishers display books

                        FREE

                           at

                            BookZen

                        http://www.bookzen.com

             402,900 visitors - 07-01-96 to 07-01-97

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 23:22:53 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Comments on the Estate Battle

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 09:51 PM 10/17/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Before I comment I should make it clear to the list that I am about as far

>from being a student of the Beats, a beat scholar, or any kind of a scholar

>as a person can get. I've read a little. That reading provided me with

>information about what I believe Jack Keroauc would to do with his

>archives. There's not a beat scholar who doesn't know where JK would have

>everything--if he had it to do over again. The archives would be in a

>library safe, secure sand available to study.

>

>More power to him....

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 23:10:12 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: Comments on the Estate Battle

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

>PS: To the Special Collections librarian where the Memory Babe archive

>is

>housed:  The fact that you are not making copies of the taped interviews

>that are part of that colletion--to insure that the conversations are

>preserved--is a literay outrage.  A time will come when you will have to

>justify the fact that you are not caring for those tapes to the best of

>your ability. How will you answer your fellow preservation librarians

>when

>they ask?  How will your colleagues judge your lack of action if those

>priceless interviews are lost forever?

 

     it blows my mind on one hand that someone who works in this field

can negelect its precepts so casually.  on the other hand, i've worked

in a library environment and known many librarians, and the majority of

them have severe attitude problems and go on frequent power trips, an

odd trend.  it's obviously not a monetary problem because they're not

even trying to do anything, at the very least the tapes should be

digitized and placed on CD and the originals preserved...

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 23:16:19 PDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Lachlan Jobbins <hipster66@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Ted Morgan

Content-Type: text/plain

 

Hi Mike,  hi all,

   Ted Morgan wrote an excellent biography of William S. Burroughs

entitled LITERARY OUTLAW. Published by Pimlico. ISBN 0712650407. I found

this in '94 and thoroughly enjoyed it. Highly recommended as an outline

of his life, perhaps lacking in critical depth but on the whole very

worthwhile to read. Like what MEMORY BABE did for Kerouac (ie separate

the human being and writer from the cultural icon), LITERARY OUTLAW is

an intensely readable account of an incredible life, not an

advertisement.

     Enjoy,  Lachlan Jobbins.... Hipster66@hotmail.com

 

>Ted Morgan is a journalist who writes biographies.  I

>recall hearing a mention of his having written one about

>either Ginsberg or Kerouac.  I read a pretty good one he

>wrote about Somerset Maughm.

>

>Mike Rice

 

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 10:20:49 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

In-Reply-To:  <v03007804b06d720de72d@[156.46.45.149]>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, jo grant wrote:

 

>

> Read Jack's last letter, written to his nephew the day before he died. If

> you do not have a copy I'll send you one--even tho I have been threaten

> with law suits by John Sampas over the copy I have.

>

> j grant

>

>

Yes, please send me a copy of this letter, I'd be very interested in

readingit.  Send it to me privately off the list if you think its going

tomake people upset.

 

Richard W. (richardw@capaccess.org)

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 10:32:38 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Comments on the Estate Battle

In-Reply-To:  <v03007800b06d07bca625@[156.46.45.156]>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

> Jan's request to Gerry is part of her will. Her will was recorded and is

> legal.John Sampas and Jan's ex-husband are trying to get her will changed.

> If they were trying to get lines deleted from one of Jan's books every

> writer in the country would be up in arms. But a writer's will appears to

> interest no one except a few people who were close to her when she died and

> a few others who have much to gain by getting Nicosia removed as Jan's

> literary executor.

>

 

What is Jan's ex-husband's interest in this?  Why would he care one way

or another, unless maybe the Sampas family is paying him?  Is this what

is being implied here?

 

Also I know from later editionsof OTR that Jan got her name on the

copyrightr when it was renewed (that must have been another court fight

with the Sampases I asume)  So she must have benefited finacially from

sales of OTR the last few years before her death right?  If so, it

wouldnt be fair of the Sampases to portray her as simply being after the

money.

 

This is all very interesting indeed!

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 10:41:52 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

Subject:      Jan Kerouac/Estate battle

Comments: To: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

In-Reply-To:  <199710180012.RAA16998@sweden.it.earthlink.net>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Hey Gerald, have you ever considered writing a book about Jan Kerouac's

life, relationship withher father, and this estate battle?  This seems

like a compelling story about a daughter trying to connect with her

father by fighting to preserve his memory.  Surely there is a terrific

book in this, maybe when the estate battle finally ends one way or

another?

 

You have expressed a strong desire on thislist for people to know the

truth about what happened andis happening.  Once it isout in book form,

the truth will always be out there.  Hope you consider it.  Im sure

publishers would jump at the chance to put out this story.

 

Unless ofcourse, they are strong-armed by the Sampases (who could

threaten to exclude publishers from future offerings of Kerouac material

if they publish a Nicosia book about Jan and the estate battle I 'spose)

 

Hope you consider it anyway.

 

Richard W.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 10:39:28 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Subject:      Birthdays and translations

Comments: To: Hey Joe <hey-joe@gartholamew.solidsolutions.com>,

          "jjw-l@io.com" <jjw-l@io.com>,

          Johnny Winter <jwinter@sicel-home-2-19.urbanet.ch>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

This isn't exactly on topic, but today is Chuck Berry's 71st birthday.

That kinda puts rock into perspective.  Chuck has influenced everybody.

 

On this same page of the Columbia State, there is a list of bad

translations.  Several of them are very good, but the best is the Pepsi

Slogan, "Come Alive, You're in the Pepsi Generation." which translated

to "Pepsi Will Bring Your Ancestors Back From the Dead."  Now, that is

something that a lot of televangelist could use.

 

Wynton Marsalis is 36 today as well.

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 08:33:45 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jan Williams <janbill@RICOCHET.NET>

Subject:      Re: Birthdays and translations

Comments: To: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@scsn.net>

Comments: cc: Hey Joe <hey-joe@www.gartholamew.com>,

          "jjw-l@io.com" <jjw-l@io.com>,

          Johnny Winter <jwinter@sicel-home-2-19.urbanet.ch>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

today is Chuck Berry's 71st birthday.

 

Let's just hope that Johnny can make it way, way past his 71st!

 

Jan

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 12:09:13 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: archive

In-Reply-To:  Message of Fri, 17 Oct 1997 20:07:45 +0100 from <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

 

I have no choice Rinaldo.  There's no more room.  If I don't erase older files,

 new files will not be archived.  Best I can do is back up the archives on a fl

oppy disk.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 12:26:29 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Oops!

 

Sorry, that last message was meant for Rinaldo.  Well, guess he'll read it on t

he list.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 12:01:07 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Donald E. Winters" <winte030@TC.UMN.EDU>

Subject:      Kerouac edtate

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

My thanks to Jo Grant for very informative comments on Gerry and the Kerouac

estate battle.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 12:14:59 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Donald E. Winters" <winte030@TC.UMN.EDU>

Subject:      Jack'l lat letter

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

J. Grant: I would be very interested in seeing a copy of the letter by Kerouac

on his death bed. My e-mail address is: winte030@tc.umn.edu   Thanks, Donald

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 09:50:42 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Colin Hartridge <colinh@WIMSEY.COM>

Subject:      Re: Birthdays

Comments: To: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@scsn.net>,

          Hey Joe <hey-joe@www.gartholamew.com>, "jjw-l@io.com" <jjw-l@io.com>,

          Johnny Winter <jwinter@sicel-home-2-19.urbanet.ch>

In-Reply-To:  <3448CA20.4F345BA6@scsn.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 10:39 AM -0400 10/18/97, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

 

>This isn't exactly on topic, but today is Chuck Berry's 71st birthday.

>That kinda puts rock into perspective.  Chuck has influenced everybody.

 

YIKES! And Roger Moore is 70! Well, Chuck's not over the hill, but he can

certainly see the top of it!

 

Next month, Jimi Hendrix would have been 55 years old.

 

Keep on rockin',

Colin

 

 

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Colin Hartridge (Captain Maniac) |  Vancouver, B.C. Canada

colinh@wimsey.com                |  "Past the outskirts of infinity"

_________________________________________________________________________

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 13:20:19 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marlene Giraud <M84M79@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Jack'l lat letter

 

i'm very interested in seeing letter also. is there any way you could post it

to the list? i'm not sure if you're allowed to do that though. do you know if

this letter will appear in Anne Charters second edition of JK letters?

 

~~Marlene

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 12:22:16 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Dana Lee Kober <dana@SPIDERLINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Birthdays

In-Reply-To:  <l03010d04b06ea708ba1c@[204.191.155.124]>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

James Dean would be 64

 

On Sat, 18 Oct 1997, Colin Hartridge wrote:

 

> At 10:39 AM -0400 10/18/97, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

>

> >This isn't exactly on topic, but today is Chuck Berry's 71st birthday.

> >That kinda puts rock into perspective.  Chuck has influenced everybody.

>

> YIKES! And Roger Moore is 70! Well, Chuck's not over the hill, but he can

> certainly see the top of it!

>

> Next month, Jimi Hendrix would have been 55 years old.

>

> Keep on rockin',

> Colin

>

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Colin Hartridge (Captain Maniac) |  Vancouver, B.C. Canada

> colinh@wimsey.com                |  "Past the outskirts of infinity"

> _________________________________________________________________________

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 13:40:03 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jonathan Pickle <jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Jack'l lat letter

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Me as well.

 

Jon(jrpick@maila.wm.edu)

 

At 12:14 PM 10/18/97 -0500, you wrote:

>J. Grant: I would be very interested in seeing a copy of the letter by

Kerouac

>on his death bed. My e-mail address is: winte030@tc.umn.edu   Thanks, Donald

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 14:48:11 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

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>> Read Jack's last letter, written to his nephew the day before he

>died. If

>> you do not have a copy I'll send you one--even tho I have been

>threaten

>> with law suits by John Sampas over the copy I have.

>>

>Yes, please send me a copy of this letter, I'd be very interested in

>readingit.  Send it to me privately off the list if you think its going

>tomake people upset.

 

     myself also please, have heard snippits of it, don't think i've

ever read whole thing... would be very interested.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 14:58:35 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: Jack'l lat letter

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>Jon(jrpick@maila.wm.edu)

 

>>on his death bed. My e-mail address is: winte030@tc.umn.edu   Thanks,

>Donald

>>.CUNY.EDU

 

     oh yeah, forgot my e-mail:  Tyson_Ouellette@umit.maine.edu

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:03:32 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

 

i'd like VERY much to read this letter as well....

 

ciao,

sherri

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Tyson Ouellette

Sent:   Saturday, October 18, 1997 11:48 AM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

 

>> Read Jack's last letter, written to his nephew the day before he

>died. If

>> you do not have a copy I'll send you one--even tho I have been

>threaten

>> with law suits by John Sampas over the copy I have.

>>

>Yes, please send me a copy of this letter, I'd be very interested in

>readingit.  Send it to me privately off the list if you think its going

>tomake people upset.

 

     myself also please, have heard snippits of it, don't think i've

ever read whole thing... would be very interested.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 14:33:54 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Birthdays and translations

In-Reply-To:  <3448CA20.4F345BA6@scsn.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

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>This isn't exactly on topic, but today is Chuck Berry's 71st birthday.

>That kinda puts rock into perspective.  Chuck has influenced everybody.

 

Bentz,

 

Years ago, in Danville, Chuck would come sailing through and stop to party.

We'd have to be careful. Those were segregation days, plus the cops watched

him like a hawk after he ended up getting nailed for taking a minor (who

happened to look like a  22 years old and and screwed like she'd studied

yoga with a grand master in India for five years) across a state line.

Great guy. Brilliant musician, tough on white guys--altho I am and we got

along fine.

 

By the way did you ever see the video when he was performing with the lead

guitarest form the Stones--a jam session. Chuck would side up to the guy

and tell him he was going to change keys. Scared him to death since he had

no theory training. Chuck was so funny teasing that guy the way he did.

 

By the way, I sent a post to the list last night and never received it

back. Did you see a post from me discussing Gerry Nicosia?  I was defending

him from the beating he was taking at the hands of Sampsa' henchmen.

 

I'm concerned that the listmaster may has cut it--even tho I was very

careful to not be flaming anyone.

 

joe

 

        Small Press Authors and Publishers display books

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=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 14:39:14 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Jan Kerouac/Estate battle

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.971018103338.29759C-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Richard,

I sent the following post to the list last night and never received a copy.

I'm wondering if it was not sent out. did you see it? I'd appreciate it if

you'd let me know.

Thanks

j grant

 

 

***

 

Before I comment I should make it clear to the list that I am about as far

from being a student of the Beats, a beat scholar, or any kind of a scholar

as a person can get. I've read a little. That reading provided me with

information about what I believe Jack Keroauc would to do with his

archives. There's not a beat scholar who doesn't know where JK would have

everything--if he had it to do over again. The archives would be in a

library safe, secure sand available to study.

 

Regarding the law suits that Gerry Nicosia is pursuing--at the explicit

written request of Jan Keroauc please remember this:  A victory in the

courts for Jan Keroauc will be a victory for Jack Kerouac and all Keroauc

students, teachers, researchers and readers.

 

Jack Keroauc wanted his archives available to the public.

Jan Keroauc wanted his archives safe and available to the public.

Gerry Nicosia promised Jan Keroauc that he would carry out her wishes. He

is doing so.

 

Jan's request to Gerry is part of her will. Her will was recorded and is

legal.John Sampas and Jan's ex-husband are trying to get her will changed.

If they were trying to get lines deleted from one of Jan's books every

writer in the country would be up in arms. But a writer's will appears to

interest no one except a few people who were close to her when she died and

a few others who have much to gain by getting Nicosia removed as Jan's

literary executor.

 

After including the request in her will, and shortly before her death, she

had Gerry promise that nothing would keep him from fulfilling her requests

to save her father's archives. I know this because she told me so and Gerry

said it was true when I asked him. So Gerry is tied to the death-bed

request of a friend who had been completely abandoned by her ex-husband,

and was being cheated out of royalties by John Sampas--cheated out of money

she needed for medical care. She was very much alone and she told me,

"Gerry Nicosia is the only person I absolutely trust."

 

As a result:

 

Gerry is being financially hammered at every turn. Again and again, on

Jan's behalf he is away from family. The fact that he faces financial

problems because of his promise to Jan has not affected his commitment and

I'm certain it never will.

.

When the suits on behalf of Jan are over I believe the locks will come off

all the Keroauc material, the sale of items from the archives will stop,

and Jan's wishes (and that reads Jack's wishes) will be fulfilled.

 

When all is said and done Gerry MIGHT get his legal expenses covered.

 

As for John Sampas' comment that Gerry's   "...poisoned hand will never

touch the Kerouac archive. His touch is the touch of death." one has only

to read "Memory Babe: A Critical Biography of Jack Keroauc" to know that

this remark is a portrait of John Sampas and unrelated to Gerry Nicosia

whose reputation for research excellence and honesty is established.

 

j grant

 

PS: To the Special Collections librarian where the Memory Babe archive is

housed:  The fact that you are not making copies of the taped interviews

that are part of that colletion--to insure that the conversations are

preserved--is a literay outrage.  A time will come when you will have to

justify the fact that you are not caring for those tapes to the best of

your ability. How will you answer your fellow preservation librarians when

they ask?  How will your colleagues judge your lack of action if those

priceless interviews are lost forever?

 

****

 

 

>Hey Gerald, have you ever considered writing a book about Jan Kerouac's

>life, relationship withher father, and this estate battle?  This seems

>like a compelling story about a daughter trying to connect with her

>father by fighting to preserve his memory.  Surely there is a terrific

>book in this, maybe when the estate battle finally ends one way or

>another?

>

>You have expressed a strong desire on thislist for people to know the

>truth about what happened andis happening.  Once it isout in book form,

>the truth will always be out there.  Hope you consider it.  Im sure

>publishers would jump at the chance to put out this story.

>

>Unless ofcourse, they are strong-armed by the Sampases (who could

>threaten to exclude publishers from future offerings of Kerouac material

>if they publish a Nicosia book about Jan and the estate battle I 'spose)

>

>Hope you consider it anyway.

>

>Richard W.

 

 

        Small Press Authors and Publishers display books

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             402,900 visitors - 07-01-96 to 07-01-97

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:08:02 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         First_Name Last_Name <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>

Subject:      beat

 

hi......

 

i'm an eighteen year-old college student just introduced to the world of jack

kerouac and the beat genre........

 

it's been truly interesting to listen to these feuds about jack's estate and

all, each side of the "debate", such and such.......but.......

 

since people like me, and i am sure there are more like me, are not too in

tune with the whole beat atmosphere; perhaps as a couple of side e-mails

people could take off of these bloodbaths against each other and get back to

the heart of the literature...

 

i, for one, would be interested in knowing everybody's favorite beat books,

songs, quotations, etc........the lit. itself, the authors

themselves.........it's obvious that a good deal of people attached to this

mailing list are more knowledgeable than i am, so it'd be nice to hear

feedback from all of you......

 

some questions i would like to ask Each of you:

what draws you to this genre?

what is so important about it? in the role of america or the world?

where is it headed, if anywhere?

how have these authors and poets impacted your lives?

 

etc.....etc.......the trivial things that are the most important

sometimes........otherwise, the legal mumbo jumbo will get old unless

balanced with another topic....

 

brian

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 14:07:12 -0700

Reply-To:     vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Adrien Begrand <vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Sherri wrote:

>

> i'd like VERY much to read this letter as well....

>

> ciao,

> sherri

>

 

Me too as well!

 

Adrien

vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:30:21 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

Comments: To: Adrien Begrand <vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca>

In-Reply-To:  <344924FF.76DF@sk.sympatico.ca>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

We dont want to get anone (Bill Gargan etc) associated with the beat list

sued though.  I take it that the Sampas family has threatened to sue the

Beat-L list moderators or organizers in the past for inappropriate postings?

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:24:29 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jonathan Pickle <jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

brian, I guess you're venturing into the deep seas of the Beats like a lot

of other college sts. I've met.

OTR, I believe has been the highest selling book in mass quantity sold on

college campuses for the past seven years.  Strange to go to fellow

dormmates rooms and have them tell me that they've "found" JK and that they

think I should try him.  That's when I usually take them upstairs and show

them the complete collection of works that I have - circa 29 books by JK

alone.

 

But, what do I think attracts me to the lit.

OH - big question.  Probably because I identify with much of the Beat

spirit concerning life.  -  That's my cliff's notes answer.

 

I think a better question is why were you drawn to it.  Why do you feel

that the youth of today are finding solace in JK and AG and WSB and the

others?

 

Jon

 

PS- as far as quotes go.  I can't pick.  I've got about a hundred from OTR

alone.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 15:36:00 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Comments on the Estate Battle

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.971018102331.29759B-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>> Jan's request to Gerry is part of her will. Her will was recorded and is

>> legal.John Sampas and Jan's ex-husband are trying to get her will changed.

>> If they were trying to get lines deleted from one of Jan's books every

>> writer in the country would be up in arms. But a writer's will appears to

>> interest no one except a few people who were close to her when she died and

>> a few others who have much to gain by getting Nicosia removed as Jan's

>> literary executor.

>>

>

>What is Jan's ex-husband's interest in this?  Why would he care one way

>or another, unless maybe the Sampas family is paying him?  Is this what

>is being implied here?

>

>Also I know from later editionsof OTR that Jan got her name on the

>copyrightr when it was renewed (that must have been another court fight

>with the Sampases I asume)  So she must have benefited finacially from

>sales of OTR the last few years before her death right?  If so, it

>wouldnt be fair of the Sampases to portray her as simply being after the

>money.

>

>This is all very interesting indeed!

 

Actually Jan treated he ex very wellin her will. He will receive her

royalties which will provide him with around $50 thou a year. Seems like a

lot, but for Jan, with her medical problems, it was very little.

 

Her ex, with help from John Sampas, is trying to get Gerry Nicosia removed

as Jan's lierary executor. They want him out because he is pursuing the law

suit in St. Pete, FL which will probably prove that Memere's signature on

the will that left everything ot Stella, was forged.

 

Government handwriting experts say the signature is not memere's.

 

The fellow who signed the will as the witness to Memere's signing has

admitted that he did not see her sign the will. Was told she had by John

Sampas.

 

If the suit in Florida is successful, the keroauc colletion wil go into a

major library--probably NY Public of UC Berkeley. Both are wiling to pay a

mil for the collection. This would leave, Jack's nephew, the Sampas segment

(unless the forgery turns into a criminal charge), and jan's ex, John Lash,

with a substantial piece of the sale price. enpough for everyone to be

happy, UNLESS you're sitting on it all and want it all.

 

I'l get a copy of the letter ready.

 

I'll include notes that Gerry Nicosia made when I first sought information

on it.

 

j grant

 

 

        Small Press Authors and Publishers display books

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             402,900 visitors - 07-01-96 to 07-01-97

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 17:04:10 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Jon B. Pearlstone" <THYE@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac Letter

 

Add my name to the growing list of people who would like to see the Kerouac

Letter from the day before he died.  Boy, there sure are a lot of

disinterested people interested in the estate battle (I'm one of them--keep

talking).

 

Jon Pearlstone

 

E-Mail    THYE@AOL.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 15:56:13 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      more of patricia's poetry

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jack

at the democratic confention he only saw the lip of the bottle,

if he looked up it was with a surly glance.

 

wsb

No one asked, well other than that day

how did you two get along?

 

 

    towels new mexico

 

one day, william beckons.

says, here, these were joans,

you take them.

Evie had them, gave them back to me.

two striped towels.

they were nice towels, good thread count, stripes,

somehow southwestern, hopi.

sometimes he would mention her to me,

as a person, not as an event.

never in company.

once when wayne was going to

use one of williams' canes and leap backwards,

william yells, nonononononoo

then explains that was how his father died.

He punctuated my life with his surprising kindness.

He would walk across the room

fletch would zig zag between his legs,

they would both be surprised when william would tread on him,

fletch screaching, william dancing suddenly,

graceful for only that moment.

 

the corpse

is the unblemished cheek,

only fatique prepares us,

the true grimace is the one of living.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 17:08:03 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         First_Name Last_Name <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>

Subject:      what OTR means to my ignorant self

 

In a message dated 97-10-18 16:28:05 EDT, you write:

 

<< brian, I guess you're venturing into the deep seas of the Beats like a lot

 of other college sts. I've met.

 OTR, I believe has been the highest selling book in mass quantity sold on

 college campuses for the past seven years.

yes.......i knew about the book previously, had never read it......but my

contemporary lit. professor introduced us to it.....along with the other beat

staple "howl".........the only other "beat" book i have is "some of the

dharma" and i just did get the cd "kicks joy darkness'......

 

 I think a better question is why were you drawn to it.  Why do you feel

 that the youth of today are finding solace in JK and AG and WSB and the

 others >>

the youth of the day i do not know if i can speak for......a lot of the youth

my age aren't too totally concerned with jk, or ag, or wsb......their

interests are more and more, if anything, focused away from

literature......in high school, for example, i was hard-pressed to find

friends who would read literature outside of class.......but i am one person,

in one dinky town, in one college, who has never moved, so it is terribly

hard for me to overgeneralize my age group........i can only speak for

myself......and this reason being, i've been a natural cynic of what little i

have in contact with american society......(because i do have little

experience with the world in general, it's a safe assumption i am Ignorant,

so bear with my thoughts)......i'm upset with the notions of what my youth is

expected to be by older generations..and then what they make of us.......and

i'm sick of titles and overgeneralizations over who i am, or what i

represent......i do not know any of these things.....nor sometimes do i truly

care........i've always felt like i belonged elsewhere, with people more like

myself(who seem limited in scope), almost anachronistic in a way.......in

ways i feel cyncial towards how society, at least american, is set-up,no

matter how Good I have it(i can not once complain about my life, it's been

all too  perfect, but in a way, that's one of the problems)........i'm

cynical towards older generations(not all people fit the same mold though),

as well as a good deal of the people my age......then i read OTR......and

another world opens up.......and people in the novel begin to correlate with

people i know and that i am friends with........and it seems as though

everything we thought and said in high school and even now(still in our

ignorance mind you)........are shadows of what OTR stands for........so much

of the cassady/moriarty character i saw in one of my best friends, my other

best friend i saw what paradise and all the rest were trying to

avoid.......and in kerouac, at least in this novel, it appeared as though i

found a tangible voice to the mounting frustrations i've been having with my

perceived american microcosm..........

 

brian

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 17:16:03 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Czarnecki <peent@SERVTECH.COM>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac Letter

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>Add my name to the growing list of people who would like to see the Kerouac

>Letter from the day before he died.  Boy, there sure are a lot of

>disinterested people interested in the estate battle (I'm one of them--keep

>talking).

>

>Jon Pearlstone

>

>E-Mail    THYE@AOL.com

 

Please add me to the letter list too, though I feel a little like I

shouldn't be taking up list space just to say that but don't want to miss

out on it either.

 

peent@servtech.com (Michael Czarnecki)

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 15:15:44 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "MYLES A. HASELHORST" <hase8846@BLUE.UNCO.EDU>

Subject:      The First Third

In-Reply-To:  <971018160555_1767934263@emout04.mail.aol.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Just the other day I bought a copy of "The First Third" at this used book

store on Broadway in Denver. The cool thing is that later that day and the

night prior, I had been walking around down town; up and down Larimer

street. It's cool standing there knowing that Neal Cassady ran up and down

those streets as a little kid.

        Anyway, I was just curious to hear some other peoples thoughts and

feelings on the book: in particular, the letter to Ken Kesey. Also, have

any of you read "The Electric Koolaid Acid Test?" In relation to this

book, who knows some info. on the latter years of Neal Cassady's life?