=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 19:16:55 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
8bit
rwallner@CapAccess.org,.Internet
writes:
>
Jack Kerouac school for
>Disemobdied
Poetics, or to someplace like that.
Jack deseves somebody
>handling
these things who isnt in it for the money.
speaking of the school, i'm hoping to
study there in the not too
distant
future... anyone been there, attended there? any comments?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 20:05:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
i think
it would sit well with some that John Sampas, who is the literary
executor
of his sister's (Stella) estate is paid for being so. He doesn't
sit
there raking in cash from published books. Income from royalties
therefore
do not go into his pocket but into the Kerouac Estate at large,
from
there who knows...the Estate was inherited from Gabrielle Kerouac to
her and
with tha was the Jack Kerouac motherlode of notebooks, journals,
art,
letters, and unpublished and published novels. Some manuscripts were in
fact
donated to the New York Public Library, others are in a safe deposit
box in
Lowell waiting for the lawsuit to end. But...they are not sitting in
a
drawer languishing for all eternity away from scholars and readers.
On the subject of John Sampas sicking
lawyers on people for using
Kerouac's
books, unpublished letters, etc. for their own publications, web
pages,
etc. It is his duty to demonstrate vigilance on these matters or he
would
be fired. Try making Disney t-hirts and selling them outside the gates
of
DisneyLand and see how far you get that day. It is something that happens
everywhere.
I am just as disgusted as some of you because I cannot have the
usage I
need for my own book, but it is something that we will have to live
with
I'm afraid. Thanks, Paul of TKQ...
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.html
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 19:47:38 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: A New SUBJECT???(not another Estate
debate)
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 20 Oct 1997 16:09:09 PDT
from
<mrsparty@HOTMAIL.COM>
The
Beats are being taught now, I'm happy to say, in colleges and high schools
all
around the country. Several people on
this list have taught and/or taken c
ourses
on the list. I'll let them respond for
themselves. There are courses t
hat
have been taught in several units of the City University of New York: Brook
lyn
College, Queens College, Hunter College, and the Graduate Center. There's
even a
beat course at Midwood High School in Brooklyn. The list of courses is
growing.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 16:56:08 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Keith Medline <mrsparty@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: politics
Content-Type:
text/plain
I am
sorry for the mistake. Although my
thought was porvacative...
Sorry
for opening my mouth?(keyboard?)
>I
was referring rather to the philosophical viewpoint of Nietzsche and
>Foucault. "Will to Power" -- will to
politics. Follow me?
>
>Dana
>
>On
Mon, 20 Oct 1997, Keith Medline wrote:
>
>>
Ah, indeed you need to rethink this statement.
In America Politician
>>
has become sunonomous with evil. We
distrust our ministers. Read
the
>>
book by James Morone called "The Democratic Wish" It is more likely
>>
that the American People choose the wrong people to give them reform.
>>
i.e= Jackson
>>
Okay enough about that. Political
statements are the driving force
in
>>
most literature of merit. Please do not
condemn politicians, or the
>>
people that elect them, more likely retract your statement and accept
>>
the political system in American is flawed.
Inherently it cannot
work.
>>
Our federalist constitution ensures this.
We gain protection from
>>
radical ideas and sweeping reform at the cost of a gridlocked
>>
governmental institution. Checks and
balances are the true culprits
you
>>
need to address not the pawns(politicians...)
>>
Thank you
>>
keith
>>
>>
______________________________________________________
>>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>>
>
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 17:11:28 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Keith Medline <mrsparty@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: A New SUBJECT???(not another Estate
debate)
Content-Type:
text/plain
This
may be true in an urban setting, but what about the rest of us.
Must we
travel to cities to find an education?
Conservative America is
repressing
the Beats. In Ann Arbor (UofM) the beat
literature is alive.
Yet in
the same state at a rival college MSU the beats only live in a
few
people. One being Dr. Rod Phillips who
turned me on to their works.
it
really opened my eyes, because I considered my liberal arts education
to be
quite good. The beats however were not
even mentioned as a force
in
American Society formation.
>The
Beats are being taught now, I'm happy to say, in colleges and high
schools
>all
around the country. Several people on
this list have taught and/or
taken c
>ourses
on the list. I'll let them respond for
themselves. There are
courses
t
>hat
have been taught in several units of the City University of New
York:
Brook
>lyn
College, Queens College, Hunter College, and the Graduate Center.
There's
>even
a beat course at Midwood High School in Brooklyn. The list of
courses
is
>
growing.
>
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 19:19:19 -0500
Reply-To: Roy Murray Moore
<unde0297@frank.mtsu.edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Roy Murray Moore
<unde0297@FRANK.MTSU.EDU>
Subject: pockets of beat
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
usually
i don't throw many ideas onto this list, having felt the brunt
from
the leary-GO connection fiasco, but somthing has been bugging me for
the
last couple weeks. i've always felt that the reason the beat (and
later
the counterculture) movement came into existence was partly due to
the
sordid mixture of young inteligent college student and the downtrodden
outcasts
of society (i.e. vagrants and hustlers). This was never more
evident
than in the case of the Village with the proximity of Columbia
University
and NYU as well as Times Square. This mixture created a hybrid
people,
intellectuals who longed for the freedom enjoyed by junkies and
prostitutes,
who possessed a bitter cynicism about life and contempt
toward
the gentility of america. what i am wondering is does the relative
closeness
of a major academically-renown university and a collection of
social
misfits trapped together in a large city create such movements? if
so,
what other cities beside NYC would be conducive toward such movements?
from
the relative proximity of nashville and vanderbilt university, could
a new
beat generation be simmering underneath the surface of the growing
city
under my very nose? i'm simply in search of my own pocket of beat.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 20:26:44 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: A New SUBJECT???(not another Estate
debate)
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
8bit
>This
may be true in an urban setting, but what about the rest of us.
>Must
we travel to cities to find an education?
Conservative America is
>repressing
the Beats. In Ann Arbor (UofM) the beat
literature is alive.
>Yet
in the same state at a rival college MSU the beats only live in a
>few
people. One being Dr. Rod Phillips who
turned me on to their works.
>it
really opened my eyes, because I considered my liberal arts education
>to
be quite good. The beats however were
not even mentioned as a force
>in
American Society formation.
here at UMaine there is a Kerouac course
tought by the assisstant
dean..
and my philosophy prof is think of doing an existentialism in
lit
course with Kerouac as one of the main readings. i think that we
have to
take it upon ourselves to maintain the beat presence if it
isn't
there.. i myself am working on starting something here, with
readings,
listening sessions, etc.. all it takes it someone willing to
get
things started and you'd be surprised how many interested folks
come
out of the woodwork.. most people will jump at the opportunity if
it's
presented, even though they may not take the initiative to start
it.
know what i mean?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 20:43:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marlene Giraud <M84M79@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: your mail
Dana
and others,
Okay,
not to sound like some flaming feminist,but what do you mean by,
"hitchiking
isn't safe any more, especially for a girl." I mean i know its
dangerous,
but thats goes for everyone. By the way, I'd like to know what all
the
listees think about the Beat's attitudes towards women. Was it negative?
supportive?
abusive? put on a pedestal type? I'd like to know everybody's
thoughts
on the subject, especially because I recently saw Women of the Beat
Generation
out in bookstores.
i'd
like to add that i'm a college student as well. Nice to see some other
younguns
on the list. :) Please don't take my question offensively, I simply
want to
know what you all think. Take care
~~Marlene
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 20:51:58 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sudama Adam Rice
<sudama@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: pockets of beat
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
what
kind of freedom do junkies and prostitutes enjoy?
--
Adam
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 17:58:34 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Keith Medline
<mrsparty@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: A New SUBJECT???(not another Estate
debate)
Content-Type:
text/plain
I like
your sense of activism. However on a
campus with 48,000 kids it
is
difficult to get the word out. I have
started a web page as you have
probably
seen. However, until I get more
exposure and knowledge on the
subject
I want to remain less active. That was
what I am getting at, it
is hard
to balance my school with my web page, with my personal
readings. Anyway, you are right, people will come out
of the woodwork.
I am
saying thatit has been a hard journey for me to find an education
about
it. Well thank you for your imput, I
know that the estate thing
was
getting tedious! Anyway, gotta split
Keith
>
>>This
may be true in an urban setting, but what about the rest of us.
>>Must
we travel to cities to find an education?
Conservative America
is
>>repressing
the Beats. In Ann Arbor (UofM) the beat
literature is
alive.
>>Yet
in the same state at a rival college MSU the beats only live in a
>>few
people. One being Dr. Rod Phillips who
turned me on to their
works.
>>it
really opened my eyes, because I considered my liberal arts
education
>>to
be quite good. The beats however were
not even mentioned as a
force
>>in
American Society formation.
>
> here at UMaine there is a Kerouac course
tought by the assisstant
>dean..
and my philosophy prof is think of doing an existentialism in
>lit
course with Kerouac as one of the main readings. i think that we
>have
to take it upon ourselves to maintain the beat presence if it
>isn't
there.. i myself am working on starting something here, with
>readings,
listening sessions, etc.. all it takes it someone willing to
>get
things started and you'd be surprised how many interested folks
>come
out of the woodwork.. most people will jump at the opportunity if
>it's
presented, even though they may not take the initiative to start
>it.
know what i mean?
>
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 21:16:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Scattered Poems
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
I
picked up Scattered Poems, 1971, $2.00 from City Lights when I bought
it back
in 1977 or so to look for an inspired word from Jack on
birthdays
or some such. I found, much to my
delight, an introduction
borrowed
from "The Origins of Joy in Poetry".
I say it is my delight
because
it says somethings that I have argued here.
And it says a lot
about
the Men who Jack was associated. Take
it as Jack said it;
The new American poetry as typified by
the SF Renaissance (which means
Ginsberg,
me, Rexroth, Ferlinghetti, McClure, Corso, Gary Snyder, Philip
Lamantia,
Philip Whalen, I guess) is a kind of new-old Zen Lunacy
poetry,
writing whatever comes into your head as it comes, poetry
returned
to its origin, in the bardic child, truly ORAL as Ferling said,
instead
of gray faced Academic quibbling.
Poetry & prose had for a long
time
fallen into the false hands of the false.
These new pure poets
confess
forth the sheer joy of confession. They
are CHILDREN. They are
also
childlike graybeard Homers singing in the street. They SING, they
SWING. It is diametrically opposed to the Eliot
shot, who so dismally
advises
his dreay negative rules like the objective correlative, etc.
which
is just a lot of constipation and utlimately emasculation of the
the
pure masculine urge to freely sing. In
spite of the dry rules he
set
down his poetry is itself sublime. I
could say lots more but aint
got
time or sense. But SF is the poetry of
a new Holy Lunancy like that
of
ancient times (Li Po, Hanshan, Tom O Bedlam, Kit Smart, Blake) yet it
also
has that mental discipline typified by the haiku (Basho, Buson),
that
is, the discipline of pointing out things directly, purely,
concretely,
no abstractions, or explanations, wham wham the true blue
song of
man.
Jack
Kerouac -- The Origions of Joy in Poetry.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 21:23:06 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Now for death day
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Well,
the last post was for my birthday. In
the Scattered Poems book I
found
the beginning of a poem that is about Jack's death day.
From:
Lucien
Midnight
Dying is ecstasy.
I'm not a teacher, not a
Sage,
not a Roshi, not a
writer
or master or even
a
giggling dharma bum I'm
my
mother's son & my mother
is the
universe --
What is this universe
but a lot of waves
And a craving desire
is a wave
Belonging to a wave
in a world of waves
So
why put any down,
wave?
Come on wave, WAVE!
...
1957
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 22:15:27 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: favorite JK poem
In-Reply-To:
<UPMAIL14.199710202223580240@classic.msn.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
10:23 PM 10/20/97 UT, you wrote:
>my
favorite Kerouac poem to date:
>
>The
Moon
>
>The
moon her magic be, big sad face
>of
infinity An illuminated clay ball
>Manifesting
many gentlemanly remarks
>
>She
kicks a star, clouds foregather
>In
Scimitar shape, to round her
>Cadle
out, upsidedown any old time
>
>You
can also let the moon foolyou
>With
imaginary orange-balls
>of
blazing imaginary light in fright
>
>As
eyeballs, hurt and foregathered,
>Wink
to the wince of the seeing
>Of
a little sprightly otay
>
>Which
projects spikes of light
>Out
the round smooth blue balloon
>Ball
full of mountains and moons
>
>Deep
as the ocean, high as the moon,
>low
as the lowliest river lagoon
>Fish
in the Tar and pull in the Spar
>
>Billy
de Budd and Hanshan Emperor
>And
all wall moongazers since
>Daniel
Machree, Yeats see
>
>Gaze
at the moon ocean marking
>the
face ----
> In
some cases
> The
moon is you
>
> In any
case
> The moon
>
>thanks
for the beauty, Ti Jean. hope yr
boppin' around the stars
>
>ciao,
sherri
>
I agree
and John Cale does it immense justice on "Kicks Joy Darkness" track
14.
It's my favorite track after "Silly Goofball Poems" by Juliana
Hatfield.
Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 21:18:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "p. durgin"
<pdurgin@BLUE.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>
Subject: Help
Comments:
To: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
In-Reply-To: <344C03FA.1ADD028A@scsn.net>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hey list people --
I've misplaced my note with the
commands on it, and I can't figure
out how
to get off this list. Can anyone help,
please?
|||pdurgin@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu|||
___________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 19:09:25 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Scattered Poems
Content-Type:
text/plain
My
delight too Bentz. I remember the discussion, didn't dream there
would
be this kind of authentication. I am curious when he might have
written
this. I wonder if he considered the "holy lunatics" as
synonymous
with "beats"
leon
>Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 21:16:05 -0400
>Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From:
"R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
>Subject: Scattered Poems
>To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>I
picked up Scattered Poems, 1971, $2.00 from City Lights when I bought
>it
back in 1977 or so to look for an inspired word from Jack on
>birthdays
or some such. I found, much to my
delight, an introduction
>borrowed
from "The Origins of Joy in Poetry".
I say it is my delight
>because
it says somethings that I have argued here.
And it says a lot
>about
the Men who Jack was associated. Take
it as Jack said it;
>
> The new American poetry as typified by
the SF Renaissance
(which
means
>Ginsberg,
me, Rexroth, Ferlinghetti, McClure, Corso, Gary Snyder,
Philip
>Lamantia,
Philip Whalen, I guess) is a kind of new-old Zen Lunacy
>poetry,
writing whatever comes into your head as it comes, poetry
>returned
to its origin, in the bardic child, truly ORAL as Ferling
said,
>instead
of gray faced Academic quibbling.
Poetry & prose had for a
long
>time
fallen into the false hands of the false.
These new pure poets
>confess
forth the sheer joy of confession. They
are CHILDREN. They
are
>also
childlike graybeard Homers singing in the street. They SING, they
>SWING. It is diametrically opposed to the Eliot
shot, who so dismally
>advises
his dreay negative rules like the objective correlative, etc.
>which
is just a lot of constipation and utlimately emasculation of the
>the
pure masculine urge to freely sing. In
spite of the dry rules he
>set
down his poetry is itself sublime. I
could say lots more but aint
>got
time or sense. But SF is the poetry of
a new Holy Lunancy like
that
>of
ancient times (Li Po, Hanshan, Tom O Bedlam, Kit Smart, Blake) yet
it
>also
has that mental discipline typified by the haiku (Basho, Buson),
>that
is, the discipline of pointing out things directly, purely,
>concretely,
no abstractions, or explanations, wham wham the true blue
>song
of man.
>
>Jack
Kerouac -- The Origions of Joy in Poetry.
>--
>Bentz
>bocelts@scsn.net
>
>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
>.-
>
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 19:30:57 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Keith Medline
<mrsparty@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: More Input
Content-Type:
text/plain
Howdy,
Well, I
am off to a great start. Thank you so
much for visiting and the
few of
you who have contributed thank you very much and I am looking
forward
to more in the future.
I know
some of you went to the site and got pissed, because there wasn't
a lot
of material. Well there is much more
now. Please continue to
come! There is a rememberence page for Kerouac
now.
On
another note! I am adding a page called
writings on the wall.
Please
come and express any gripes, anecdotes, small epitaphs, or other
ramblings
there. I would love to see this page
thrive.
Again I
cannot stress how grateful I am to those of you who have
visited. Those who have not... Well, thats okay, I
sympathise with you
as
well, becasue of the volume of my posts about the site.
However,
the sooner I get more input and submissions from you, the
sooner
all this lobbying ends. Thank you so
much once again for your
time
and patience.
keith
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 21:56:40 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: don quixote of tenderness
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Another
favourite little batch of words....
Dharma
Bums end of #17:
"I
was started on my new life with my new equipment: a regular Don
Quixote
of tenderness. In the morning I felt
exhilarated and meditated
first
thing and made up a little prayer: 'I bless you, all living
things,
I bless you in the endless past, I bless you in the endless
present,
I bless you in the endless future, amen.'
This
little prayer made me feel good and fool good as I packed up my
things
and took off to the tumbling water that came down from a rock
across
the highway, delicious spring water to bathe my face in and wash
my
teeth in and drink. Then I was ready
for the three-thousand-mile
hitchhike
to Rocky Mount, North Carolina, where my mother was waiting,
probably
washing the dishes in her dear pitiful kitchen."
and
later:
"I
turned and knelt on the trail and said 'Thank you shack.' Then added
'Blah,'
with a little grin, because I knew that shack and that mountain
would
understand what that meant, and turned and went on down the trail
back to
this world."
all his
endings are so beautiful to type
Desolation
Angels:
"Later
I'm back in New York sitting around with Irwin and Simon and
Raphael
and Lazarus, and now we're famous writers more or less, but they
wonder
why I'm so sunk now, so unexcited as we sit among all our
published
books and poems, tho at least since I live with Memere in a
house
of her own miles from the city, it's a peaceful sorrow. A
peaceful
sorrow at home is the best I'll ever be able to offer the
world,
in the end, and so I told my Desolation Angels goodbye. A new
life
for me."
i
really will try to stop this ... honest!!!
I used to go to parties --
mini-wakes
-- on this night at Lynnea's back in Rock Island. We'd all
read
passages and the aftermath lasted for days.
It was in one of these
aftermaths
with Kerouac's box set still dead on the hardwood floor that
i
played the Yahtzee game that made it into my little firewalk thru
madness
thingy.
david
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 20:38:14 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael R. Brown" <foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>
Subject: Re: The estate battle
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.LNX.3.96.971020141536.7614A-100000@poconos.net>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon,
20 Oct 1997, Entropy Operator wrote:
[Brown
wrote]
>
> If love and dedication is the standard, there's no doubt whose side
>
> the angels are on.
> I
dont get it.
>
The list moderator kindly asked
>
this thread be canceled
>
yet i've gotten 50 non-beat
>
related e-mails about the stupid
> fight.
Everything
interpenetrates, so some of us are constantly testing the
limits.
It's first nature with us.
+ -- +
-- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +
Michael R. Brown foosi@global.california.com
+ -- +
-- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +
"Why can't it just
be, Michael?"
Simunye, in conversation with
Foosi, September 1997
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 23:32:39 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dana Lee Kober <dana@SPIDERLINE.COM>
Subject: Re: politics
In-Reply-To:
<19971020235609.6771.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Your
thoughts were fine too :)
On Mon,
20 Oct 1997, Keith Medline wrote:
> I
am sorry for the mistake. Although my
thought was porvacative...
>
Sorry for opening my mouth?(keyboard?)
>
>
>
>I was referring rather to the philosophical viewpoint of Nietzsche and
>
>Foucault. "Will to Power"
-- will to politics. Follow me?
>
>
>
>Dana
>
>
>
>On Mon, 20 Oct 1997, Keith Medline wrote:
>
>
>
>> Ah, indeed you need to rethink this statement. In America Politician
>
>> has become sunonomous with evil.
We distrust our ministers. Read
>
the
>
>> book by James Morone called "The Democratic Wish" It is more likely
>
>> that the American People choose the wrong people to give them reform.
>
>> i.e= Jackson
>
>> Okay enough about that.
Political statements are the driving force
> in
>
>> most literature of merit.
Please do not condemn politicians, or the
>
>> people that elect them, more likely retract your statement and accept
>
>> the political system in American is flawed. Inherently it cannot
>
work.
>
>> Our federalist constitution ensures this. We gain protection from
>
>> radical ideas and sweeping reform at the cost of a gridlocked
>
>> governmental institution.
Checks and balances are the true culprits
>
you
>
>> need to address not the pawns(politicians...)
>
>> Thank you
>
>> keith
>
>>
>
>> ______________________________________________________
>
>> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 04:58:42 UT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: howl with a whine chaser
Marie -
you have outdone yourself!! thanks for
the laugh!!
come on
- tell me bout your trip. (of course
i'm sure you have between 300
and 400
posts to wade through - having been away for 2 weeks myself, not long
ago)
take
care,
sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 23:39:34 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "MYLES A. HASELHORST"
<hase8846@BLUE.UNCO.EDU>
Subject: Poem
In-Reply-To:
<v01530500630fc025578a@[204.181.15.86]>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Ahead
nor behind
neither
is important
-the single moment-
with
every turn is
a new
face
never
an answer.
Within
Death's eyes
is
peace;
Death
is only--Truth.
Is it when you look in the mirror
that you forget yourself?
Would your life hold up between
heavan
and hell
or in judgment?
Truth
is your answer.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 01:40:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Estate rehashing & the Memory
Babe Collection
In-Reply-To: <34499A4D.5EA9@together.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
No
flames here. Nothing to take away from JK's birthday.
Friends
There
has been some rehashing, but there has also been some incredibly
intersting
NEW information.
Ultimately
the conflicts break down to three:
1. Jan
Keroauc's will (ie: Can someone step forward and censor what a
person
has written?) and
2. Jan
Keroauc's claim that Jack Keroauc's mother's signature on her will
was
forged, and
3.
Gerry Nicosia's desire to legally remove the Memory Babe Collection from
the
U.Mass Library--returning the money they paid for it--and placing it in
a
library where the material will be open to students, teachers,
researchers,
etc.
In the
meantime, I (and probably many others) collect the posts on the
issues,
with thoughts of looking back at the words of condemnation aimed at
Gerry
Nicosia. When the courts finally resolve the issues I have a feeling
those
posts will provoke some interesting comments.
For
what it's worth I sincerely believe that Jan's freedom of speech and
her
right to be free of censorship will win out over those trying to change
her
will. As a member of the National
Writers Union I am going to try to
interest
our over 4000 members in helping protect Jan's last testiment. The
case in
St. Pete, Florida--Jan's forgery claim--will never be heard in
court
if Lash and Sampas successfully censor Jan's will and get rid of
Gerry
Nicosia.
Re-claiming
the Memory Babe Collection will take legal fees that Gerry
Nicosia
does not have. Since I'm living on a fixed income--Social
Security--of
less than $500.00 a month, I can't cover any portion of the
legal
fees it will take. But since some of the most meaningful moments of
my life
have been spent in libraries, and since I feel strongly about
collections
being cared for, preserved, and open to researchers I'm going
to do
everything in my power to help Nicosia get his Memory Babe Collection
into a
library with a staff that has the knowledge and resources to keep
the
collection open to researchers and do what has to be done to preserve
the
tapes.
A few
years ago I came up with a character based on librarians/teachers
very
dear to me. One of the people was Agnes Tuttle, my fifth grade teacher
at
Woodrow Wilson elementary school, Fargo, North Dakota, 1939. What a
nobel
woman. I called my character the Incredible Librarian, did a few
illustrated
stories but never got them into print A
few thgousand
librarians
ended up with t-shirts, but since it was almost nine years ago
those
shirts may be ready to retire.
There
are also sweat shirts. (On my way to the UW madison library this
morning
I noticed the snow fences up between Gorham St and the beech by the
locks
on Lake Mendota. Bummer.)
To my
Incredible Librarian nothing is impossible. Perhaps some on the Beat
List
remember her often repeated quote: "In the defense of freedom and
literacy,
libraries are the most powerful weapons we have. Use them!"
I'm not
much of an artist, but in a few days I'm going to show the list a
t-shirt,
an Incredible Librarian t-shirt, that you might want to buy for
the
librarian you love. I'll have the art, on the shirts, posted at my
http://www.bookzen.com
site in a few days.
All
proceeds to go to Save the Memory Babe Collection fund. And I'll have
it set
up
I'm not
doing this to provoke anyone. I just want to see that collection
preserved
and open for researchers. I hope others feel as strongly as I do
about
this matter.
More
information soon.
j grant
Small Press Authors and Publishers
display books
FREE
at
BookZen
http://www.bookzen.com
402,900 visitors - 07-01-96 to
07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 01:58:44 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Sampas calls on Gyenis for
reinforcements
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.971019200708.13526A-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>"Ihereby
appoint John Lash as General Executor of this will for all
>purposes,
SAVE those concerning any rights that I now possess or may
>hereafter
possess in any literary works or literary archival materials,
>including
but not limited to any literary works or literary materials of
>my
father, Jack Kerouac, and my own literary works and materials,
>including
but not limited to "Baby Driver" and "Train Song". As to these
>literary
works and materials, I appoint GERALD NICOSIA as Literary
>Executor. In his capacity as Literary Executor, he
shall make all
>decisions
regarding the appropriate publication, republication, sale,
>license,
or any other exploitation of any nature of any intellectual
>rights
I have in any literary works or materials.
He shall do these
>things
with due regard to fostering economic return without devaluing or
>cheapening
the literary works or any intellectual property rights flowing
>therefrom,
or in any way reflecting negatively on me, my father, or my
>heirs
or beneficiaries.
>
>In
return for his services as Literary Executor, GERALD NICOSIA shall
>receive
as compensation 10% (ten percent) of any income generated by
>publications,
sales, or other licensing arrangements that he has
>negotiated,
payable to him at receipt of any such income by the estate"
>
>>From
Jan Kerouac's will.
Thank
you Mr. Wallner.
j grant
Small Press Authors and Publishers
display books
FREE
at
BookZen
http://www.bookzen.com
402,900 visitors - 07-01-96 to
07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 02:10:46 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: back and buried
In-Reply-To: <199710201158.HAA11523@pike.sover.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>howdy
all.
>first
full day back from week, 8 stop road trip. came home to discover i
>had
796 messages awaitin' me.
>road
dust gives power
>to
finger
>to
delete key
>glad
to be back. hope to catch up;
>perhaps,
>just
maybe,
>i
>can
>mc
Isn't
it a rush to hit that delete key and watch a few hundred msgs
disappear.
even though it was tough to do.
j grant
Small Press Authors and Publishers
display books
FREE
at
BookZen
http://www.bookzen.com
402,900 visitors - 07-01-96 to
07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 03:14:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: What person would they like to meet?
If you
asked Jack, Neal, Allen, and William the following question, what do
you
think their answer would be?
QUESTION:
What person would you like to meet, living or dead; and why?
I asked
Kurt Vonnegut that question and he said Mark Twain. Maybe Jack would
like to
have met his brother Gerard.
A
question for you all to ponder out there in webland.
is Kurt
beat?
so it
goes, Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 02:37:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.971020162107.28922A-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>On
Mon, 20 Oct 1997, Sherri wrote:
>
>>
Richard, while that's noble, Gerry or anyone else does deserve something for
>>
the huge amount of work this can entail.
unless the executor is someone who
>>
is independently wealthy, s/he couldn't work a second job in order to
>>put
food
>>
on the table.
>
>Nicosia
has doubtless made plenty of money from "Memory Babe" and his
>other
writing endeavors. When you become an
executor of a "friend's"
>estate,
you should want to do so out of love, not money.
>
>Would
Nicosia have accepted the job if the cut was 5% or 2%. Where does
>personal
interest end and financial interest begin?
Everyone involved in
>this
is hip deep in greed of one form or another.
>
>Jack
Kerouac died broke and all these people want is to make money off of
>him....very
sad.
>
>RJW
During
the last year or so of her life I talked to jan quite a bit. She
trustd
Gerry because he had been her friend for as long as she had known
him.
Through good and bad times. He didn't ask for a percentage, Jan put
that in
her will.
Your
post is really not fair. Geerry Nicosia was jan's choice--her
insurance--that
her wishes would be followed. Not because of money, but
because
he was her friend.
As for
Memory Babe generating income for Nicosia... I sure hope it has.
When
you spend years and years and years researching a book it would be a
damn
shame if it didn't sell. But you can believe that his life style is
modest
and both he and his wife work.
You
say:
>Jack
Kerouac died broke and all these people want is to make money off of
>him....very
sad.
It's
not that simple. I'm an outsider who simply wants the Keroauc archives
in a
safe, secure environment where everything can be cared for and
preserved.
At least one of the principles--IMHO--wants that too. As I'm
sure
you do. There's no question that it's what JK wanted.
j grant
Small Press Authors and Publishers
display books
FREE
at
BookZen
http://www.bookzen.com
402,900 visitors - 07-01-96 to
07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 04:20:10 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John J Dorfner
<Jjdorfner@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: a feeble attempt to honor Jack
sherri...
great
post. nice poem.
john j
dorfner
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 02:46:40 -0700
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand <vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: 10/21/69
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
two
a.m.
desolate
millsounds
thundering
resounding machinery
I think of Duluoz
under
orion's belt
illuminated
plume of steam
towering
over the town
I think of Duluoz
cool
crisp October air
light
snowfall
my own
Desolation
I think of Duluoz
100
miles of open highway going
north
west east
south
I think of Duluoz
'Round
Midnight
Ornithology
Salt
Peanuts!
I think of Duluoz
All
Life Is Suffering
walking
on water wasn't built in a day
you
can't fall off a mountain!
I think of Duluoz
Redbrick
Lowell
Shadowyvisions
of Dr. Sax
I think of Duluoz
Irwin
on the subway
Bull in
Louisiana
Dean
naked in the doorway
I think of Duluoz
Chicago-jazz
& tea high
Denver-holy
visions
San
Francisco-boddhisatvas, midnight angels
I think of Duluoz
Mexican
fellaheen
Mexican
tea
Mexican
whores
I think of Duluoz
Southern
Pacific
Midnight
Ghost
the St.
Teresa Bum
I think of Duluoz
Gallery
Six
Wail
Go!
I think of Duluoz
Desolation
peak
Hozomeen
looming
ennui
& haikus
I think of Duluoz
King of
the beatniks
generation
spokesperson
beaten
I think of Duluoz
Big Sur
delerium
Sea
I think of Duluoz
Lowell
Stella
Memere's
apronstrings
I think of Duluoz
has-been
drunk
lousy
father & husband
I think of Duluoz
2:30
a.m.
sounds
of Monk &
sounds
of the mill
I think of Duluoz
Paradise
Smith
Kerouac
Is all
well?
Will
all be well?
Just
keep guarding us,
Jacky, m'boy
--Adrien
Begrand
10/21/97
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 05:32:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Questions for Gerry (estate matters)
Gerry,
In an
attempt for accuracy I have the following questions.
1) When did you start your drive to save the
Kerouac archives? If it was
after
your book was published, why didn't you think it was important while
you
were working on your book? Why did you wait so long?
2) When
and how did Jan discover that Memere's will appeared to be forged,
and
when and how did you come upon this discovery?
3) Are
you saying that under Jan's will as literary executor, a) you get a
share
and control over Jan's portion of Jack's royalties? b) that Jan's
estate
(and you) will get a share and control over Jack's archives when and
if they
are sold? c) all of the above? d) fill in blank ______________
Should
we make the assumption that you are already getting 10% of Jan's
royalties
from Jack's books, as literary executor (or entitled to it).
>From
Jan's will: ...SAVE those concerning
any rights that I now possess or
may
hereafter
possess in any literary works or literary archival materials,
including
but not limited to any literary works or literary materials of
my
father, Jack Kerouac, and my own literary works and materials,
including
but not limited to "Baby Driver" and "Train Song"... (from
BookZen
website)
4) Does Jan now possess the rights (other then
royalties) to the sale of
Jack's
archives? Does her estate have a legal right to a percentage of the
monies
if the archives are sold?
It is
my understanding that currently (and
until the Florida court case
that will determine, legally anyway, whether
Memere's will is a fraud or
not)
Jan's estate is not entitled to any monies from the sale of Jack's
archives.
(please let me know if I am wrong)
5) What
year did Jan start getting royalties from Jack's books?
6) Were
you at the hospital when she died?
And if
I was wrong in anything I stated in my previous post, I apologize
because
the last thing I want to do is add another layer of misinformation to
this
discussion.
thanks
for your consideration in this matter.
Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 07:08:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John J Dorfner
<Jjdorfner@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: favorite JK poem
i also
love "silly goofball poems"...pure kerouac...
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 08:31:19 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: More Input
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
hey
keith: i lost the http: address; also i'm embarrassed that my stuff is
up
w/out a chance to edit and choose and send more representative stuff.
like
being caught mooning the motherload of beat afficianados,
address,
and editorial rights?
mc
Keith
Medline wrote:
>
Howdy,
>
>
Well, I am off to a great start. Thank
you so much for visiting and the
>
few of you who have contributed thank you very much and I am looking
>
forward to more in the future.
>
> I
know some of you went to the site and got pissed, because there wasn't
> a
lot of material. Well there is much
more now. Please continue to
>
come! There is a rememberence page for
Kerouac now.
>
> On
another note! I am adding a page called
writings on the wall.
>
Please come and express any gripes, anecdotes, small epitaphs, or other
>
ramblings there. I would love to see
this page thrive.
>
>
Again I cannot stress how grateful I am to those of you who have
>
visited. Those who have not... Well,
thats okay, I sympathise with you
> as
well, becasue of the volume of my posts about the site.
>
>
However, the sooner I get more input and submissions from you, the
>
sooner all this lobbying ends. Thank
you so much once again for your
>
time and patience.
>
keith
>
>
______________________________________________________
>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 08:37:33 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: don quixote of tenderness
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
david:
i tender you thanks for this packet of tenderness. you're right
about
his endings, and desolation ending so true to his life and its
ending.
thanks
mc
RACE
--- wrote:
>
Another favourite little batch of words....
>
>
Dharma Bums end of #17:
>
>
"I was started on my new life with my new equipment: a regular Don
> Quixote
of tenderness. In the morning I felt
exhilarated and meditated
>
first thing and made up a little prayer: 'I bless you, all living
>
things, I bless you in the endless past, I bless you in the endless
>
present, I bless you in the endless future, amen.'
>
>
This little prayer made me feel good and fool good as I packed up my
>
things and took off to the tumbling water that came down from a rock
>
across the highway, delicious spring water to bathe my face in and wash
> my
teeth in and drink. Then I was ready
for the three-thousand-mile
>
hitchhike to Rocky Mount, North Carolina, where my mother was waiting,
>
probably washing the dishes in her dear pitiful kitchen."
>
>
and later:
>
>
"I turned and knelt on the trail and said 'Thank you shack.' Then added
>
'Blah,' with a little grin, because I knew that shack and that mountain
>
would understand what that meant, and turned and went on down the trail
>
back to this world."
>
>
all his endings are so beautiful to type
>
Desolation Angels:
>
>
"Later I'm back in New York sitting around with Irwin and Simon and
>
Raphael and Lazarus, and now we're famous writers more or less, but they
>
wonder why I'm so sunk now, so unexcited as we sit among all our
>
published books and poems, tho at least since I live with Memere in a
>
house of her own miles from the city, it's a peaceful sorrow. A
>
peaceful sorrow at home is the best I'll ever be able to offer the
>
world, in the end, and so I told my Desolation Angels goodbye. A new
>
life for me."
>
> i
really will try to stop this ... honest!!!
I used to go to parties --
>
mini-wakes -- on this night at Lynnea's back in Rock Island. We'd all
>
read passages and the aftermath lasted for days. It was in one of these
>
aftermaths with Kerouac's box set still dead on the hardwood floor that
> i
played the Yahtzee game that made it into my little firewalk thru
>
madness thingy.
>
>
david
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 09:46:57 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Hemenway . Mark"
<MHemenway@DRC.COM>
Subject: Estate $$$$
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I would
think that it was pretty clear that if Gerry Nicosia wins the
estate
battle, he stands to gain all the $$$ that go with it. I'd like
to see
him make a clear, unequivocal statement for the record what HE
intends
to do with that money. Never mind whether anyone deserves it, or
how
hard he's worked or all the abuse he feels he has put up with. What
is he
going to do with the money?
I
propose that after all the tears, the polemic and whining, this whole
business
is all about MONEY and belongs to the courts and to the
lawyers.
What's
the story Gerry?
Mark
Hemenway
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 11:16:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Estate $$$$
Comments:
To: "Hemenway . Mark" <MHemenway@DRC.COM>
In-Reply-To:
<1017B7AD7D34D111B9C900805FC1D3AE101B5F@and02.drc.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue,
21 Oct 1997, Hemenway . Mark wrote:
> I
would think that it was pretty clear that if Gerry Nicosia wins the
>
estate battle, he stands to gain all the $$$ that go with it. I'd like
> to
see him make a clear, unequivocal statement for the record what HE
>
intends to do with that money. Never mind whether anyone deserves it, or
Well
he'd certainly use some of it to buy back the "Memory babe" archives
which
is a worthwile thing to do. My
questions of his motives aside, I
hope
Nicosia winsbecause Jack Kerouac was a deadbeat dad, and I always
wanted
Jan to get her share of his legacy.
Also,
from everything Ive read, Kerouac's last marriage was a sham,
because
his mother was sick and he needed a substitute mother figure. I
dont
think he loved this woman romantically and wouldnt have wanted her
family
handling his legacy.
I think
he did write that last letter.
RJW
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 09:12:30 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: ANNE ELIZABETH SNEDDON
<sneddon@NEVADA.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To:
<971020203344_-2146362464@emout08.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I think
it's incredibly typical of the era. It
has only been recently
that
women's presence in subculture has been acknowledged. The Beats
weren't
the only ones doing it. I remember
reading somewhere that the
Mods
referred to themselves as a male subculture and that any women who
happened
to be involved with them were, in fact, their girlfriends. Same
goes
for Rockabilly; all those guys making
that wonderful music....the
women
who were putting out some of the same smokin' tunes were merely an
afterthought
(Janis Martin, Sparkle Moore, Wanda Jackson...) Put it in
perspective...these
were the 1950's, after all. They may
have been
progressive
in some ways, but obviously not in others.
Anne
Sneddon
On Mon,
20 Oct 1997, Marlene Giraud wrote:
>
Dana and others,
>
>
Okay, not to sound like some flaming feminist,but what do you mean by,
>
"hitchiking isn't safe any more, especially for a girl." I mean i
know its
>
dangerous, but thats goes for everyone. By the way, I'd like to know what all
>
the listees think about the Beat's attitudes towards women. Was it negative?
>
supportive? abusive? put on a pedestal type? I'd like to know everybody's
>
thoughts on the subject, especially because I recently saw Women of the Beat
>
Generation out in bookstores.
>
i'd like to add that i'm a college student as well. Nice to see some other
>
younguns on the list. :) Please don't take my question offensively, I simply
>
want to know what you all think. Take care
> ~~Marlene
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 09:38:35 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Keith Medline
<mrsparty@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: More Input
Content-Type:
text/plain
the URL
http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/rothko/31/index.html
press
ctrl-d when you are there to bookmark it
keith
>From
owner-beat-l@cunyvm.cuny.edu Tue Oct 21 05:34:00 1997
>Received:
from listserv (128.228.100.10) by listserv.cuny.edu (LSMTP
for
Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.05191C00@listserv.cuny.edu>; Tue,
21 Oct
1997 8:33:34 -0400
>Received:
from CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (LISTSERV release
1.8c)
with
> NJE id 9118 for
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU; Tue, 21 Oct 1997
08:34:19
> -0400
>Received:
from CUNYVM (NJE origin SMTP3@CUNYVM) by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
(LMail
> V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 6544; Tue, 21 Oct 1997 08:32:35
-0400
>Received:
from pike.sover.net by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4)
with
TCP;
> Tue, 21 Oct 97 08:32:34 EDT
>Received:
from sover.net (pm0a5.mont.sover.net [206.25.67.105]) by
> pike.sover.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with
ESMTP id IAA11715 for
> <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>; Tue,
21 Oct 1997 08:32:07 -0400
(EDT)
>X-Mailer:
Mozilla 4.03 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
>MIME-Version:
1.0
>References:
<19971021023057.25858.qmail@hotmail.com>
>Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
>
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>Message-ID: <199710211232.IAA11715@pike.sover.net>
>Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 08:31:19 +0000
>Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
>Subject: Re: More Input
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>hey
keith: i lost the http: address; also i'm embarrassed that my stuff
is
>up
w/out a chance to edit and choose and send more representative
stuff.
>like
being caught mooning the motherload of beat afficianados,
>address,
and editorial rights?
>mc
>
>Keith
Medline wrote:
>
>>
Howdy,
>>
>>
Well, I am off to a great start. Thank
you so much for visiting and
the
>>
few of you who have contributed thank you very much and I am looking
>>
forward to more in the future.
>>
>>
I know some of you went to the site and got pissed, because there
wasn't
>>
a lot of material. Well there is much
more now. Please continue to
>>
come! There is a rememberence page for
Kerouac now.
>>
>>
On another note! I am adding a page
called writings on the wall.
>>
Please come and express any gripes, anecdotes, small epitaphs, or
other
>>
ramblings there. I would love to see
this page thrive.
>>
>>
Again I cannot stress how grateful I am to those of you who have
>>
visited. Those who have not... Well,
thats okay, I sympathise with
you
>>
as well, becasue of the volume of my posts about the site.
>>
>>
However, the sooner I get more input and submissions from you, the
>>
sooner all this lobbying ends. Thank
you so much once again for your
>>
time and patience.
>>
keith
>>
>>
______________________________________________________
>>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 12:41:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jonathan Pickle
<jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>
Subject: Re: What person would they like to meet?
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I would
say Allen would probably want to meet Walt Whitman. JK would want
to meet
Jesus or the Buddha.
That's
what I'm thinking right now.
Jon
At
03:14 AM 10/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
>If
you asked Jack, Neal, Allen, and William the following question, what do
>you
think their answer would be?
>
>QUESTION:
What person would you like to meet, living or dead; and why?
>
>I
asked Kurt Vonnegut that question and he said Mark Twain. Maybe Jack would
>like
to have met his brother Gerard.
>
>A
question for you all to ponder out there in webland.
>
>is
Kurt beat?
>so
it goes, Attila
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 12:49:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jonathan Pickle
<jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I think
my favorite Jk poem would have to be either Poems of the Buddhas of
Old or
the poem: "I am God".
Just
wanted to add my favorites to the list.
Jon
And any time you need
me
Call
I'll be at the other
end
Waiting
at the final hall
JK, San Francisco Blues 80th Chorus
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 13:06:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: your mail
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
8bit
>Okay,
not to sound like some flaming feminist,but what do you mean by,
>"hitchiking
isn't safe any more, especially for a girl." I mean i know
>its
>dangerous,
but thats goes for everyone. By the way, I'd like to know
>what
all
>the
listees think about the Beat's attitudes towards women.
i think that in fact it is more dangerous
for women. rape, for
example,
is predominately a male victimizing female situation. and,
when
you think about violent physical acts, mass murderers, typical
killers,
serial killers, etc. they're almost
always men. and i don't
care
what anyone says about everybody being the same, on average men
are
capable of more physical force than women, yeah, there are plenty
of
massive bodybuilder women, and plenty of dinky little guys, but i'm
talking
about the average majority. not trying
to start the men/women
battle
here, no one wants to get into that monotonous argument.
as far as beattitudes on women, it
depends on the writer. Jack
obviously
had a different outlook on women than Neal, or Lucien, or
Allen,
or Bill, or John. you have to be
careful not to include the
general
outlooks of relationships between the sexes as imposed by the
time
period, i.e. the 50's, in which the beats grew up. the beats have
to be
examined within the context of that period's cultural norms,
which
still emphasized, and did so very strongly, the home and family
with a
breadwinning dad and mom at home with the kids. especially for
Jack,
and i can second this being franco-american and having from birth
till
college (a few years ago) lived in a french mill town; if you
aren't
familiar with franco-american culture, it's very familty-based
work
ethic oriented. not so much now as it
was for my grandparents who
had
seven kids, 16 grandchildren. only one
went to college. they all
stayed
in the same town until within the past few years, but those who
ventured
out of town only went so far as one town away.
every sunday
morning
after church everyone goes to my grandmother's for muffins,
donuts,
coffee, and some 15 adults are all talking at once in the
kitchen
whie the kids are running around all over inside and out. i
lived
my entire childhood in the house, a two story building with an
apartment
upstairs and down, that my great grandfather built himself.
my
grandmother still lives there, i grew up upstairs from them. my
grandmother
lived on that street at birth, my mother lived on that
street
at birth, and i lived there at birth.
interesting thing about
regional
french here, memere is the term i use for my grandmother,
pronounced
meh-may, as opposed to meh-mahyer, like paul's last name.
mom was
just mom. pepere is grandad. mon oncle and ma taunt (pardon
my
spelling) are uncle and aunt until i started calling them by their
first
names, which they didn't like but they were forced to get used
to.
anyway, before i write my biog, i'll
stop. be nice of other frogs
(hehe)
on the list would write about their environments, very
discussion
where jack is concerned. any lowellites
on the list? by
the
way, if anyone's interested, my hometown is Biddeford, Maine...
it's
about a 45 minute or so ride north of Lowell, MA. about 1.5 hrs
to
downtown boston, very close to Nashua, NH.
so i pretty much grew up
in good
old fashioned jack tradition. oh yeah,
high school football is
all the
rage in Biddeford. state champs many a
time.
by the way, i work with a guy that looks
so much like jack it
scares
the hell out of me.. his eys are an identical match, i mean,
perfect. feels like he's looking inside your
head. anyone else have
experiences
like this? the funniest is when you see
a balding wild
haired
bearded guy that looks like allen... hehehehehe..... gotta love
it.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 13:12:15 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: pockets of beat
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
8bit
>what
kind of freedom do junkies and prostitutes enjoy?
freedom from being. very briefly, greek stuff, apollonian,
dionnyssian. apollonian false optimism, emphasizes self,
dionnyssian,
"pessimism,"
loss of self. it's best to have never
been born, but
we've
already been cheated of that, so the next best thing is to die
and die
young. call it escapism, say they're
not free because they're
addicted,
whatever, i've never been more free than high and dancing for
hours
around a hot fire in the woods at night.
when you lose perceptin
of
self, you escape yourself, the most sought and highest freedom....
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 13:22:41 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: A New SUBJECT???(not another Estate
debate)
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
8bit
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU,Internet
writes:
>I
like your sense of activism. However on
a campus with 48,000 kids it
>is
difficult to get the word out. I have
started a web page as you have
>probably
seen. However, until I get more
exposure and knowledge on the
>subject
I want to remain less active. That was
what I am getting at, it
>is
hard to balance my school with my web page, with my personal
>readings.
i
see what you mean. it is hard. if you
could have classes to
attend
about beats that would also be what you want to read personally,
etc. there must be a prof on a campus of that
size that likes the
beats
and would be willing to teach a course on them. have you visited
the
english department to check this out? do you have a university
e-mail
system where you can send one out to the entire school
community? unfortunately, it'll end up being time
consuming in one way
or
another. i was thinking of making some short mixed tapes of jack,
bill,
and allen reading their stuff and put it in dorm lobbies with a
message
about starting something, to try and get new people turned on
to the
beats. the great thing about doing this stuff in college is that
if you
officialize it as a club you should be eligible for a small
amount
of campus activity funds to do a few things.
i'd try to find
others
already interested in the beats and work together to get
something
started, splitting up tasks will be much less time consuming,
and you
can fall back on each other.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 13:29:16 -0400
Reply-To: cmdumond@ehc.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Chris Dumond <cmdumond@EHC.EDU>
Subject: Visions of Jack
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
8bit
Beautiful
Jack, if you had only outlived the slings and arrows
VISIONS
OF JACK
I awake
and I
look across the landscape, familiar
and yet
foreign to me to day.
Gazing
seeing
miles of endless, pockmarked landscape
which
is not craters
but
actually the faces of a thousand pimplefaced teens
of a highschool
wasteland
now
left behind.
Finding
that
the gray, dusty frontier of what is ahead
to be
the ashes of a million Marlboro cigarettes
to be
the ashes of a million Camel cigarettes
of our
american heros and
the
litter of a million tumorous lungs
Reading
in the
bibles of all faiths
that
hundreds of trees were put forth by god
to be
processed into the twothousand pages of
the
creation of man
(failure
to create something better than man
in a
priest)
Asking
just
what does lunar mean?
I don t
know. Neither does the little bird
who
lives in a faded white house
with
one shingle folded for a roof.
It
means nothing to him
It
means nothing to me.
Seeing
Queer
little boys being pampered by fathers
In
every grocery store in the United States
While
Mothers bring the bread home
to
sissy little children and spoiled men
who go
to grocery stores for hardware.
Building
absolutely
nothing, not because I can t
but
because there is exactly zero
space
to build it in and exactly zero
time to
do it in.
(Wishing
Someone
else knew that this time thing
of the
one hundred year flood
was
really the thousand year drain
of a
billion years of evolution
as
science turns around and eats itself.)
Brooding
over
the fact that Einstein
was
soo right and Newton was so wrong
and
that no one cares at all
except
me and Nick and Jack and Kurt Vonnegut
but not
Joyce.
Knowing
that
the womb is a closet of sorts
that
harbours the one ignorance
which
is life, which is debated
in the
halls of pretentious legislatures everywhere
passing
out bent sticks to everyone.
(especially
in China)
Wondering
if
missed opportunity is an opportunity at all
with
five of them under my belt
I wear
everyday anyway
I
honestly don t find them weighing me down
much at
all.
Debating
almost
everything almost everyday
a
million ideas that go in one ear and out my mouth
and not
a single person seems to have
the
slightest idea as to what
it
means
Stacking
periodical
literature of world events
three
miles high with a stack of papers
three
feet tall and crying about my swollen
fingers
from writing fivehundred
essays
for posterity
Hating
and
having to think about it is something
all of
two or three people in the whole world
who I
would not hesitate to punch
if they
walked crooked the line
I draw
in lunacy
Pleurer
vous
avez deveni trhs gros
dans
votre quarante-sept annies de chercher pour la vie et
pour la
c ur des Itas-Unis avec Neal
dit
Dean et vous, Paradise et Duluoz,
Jack
the Louse
Drinking
Johnny
Walker Red Label and Tequila
out of
Evian bottles at one in the morning
to
breakdance to Queen in the parking lot
of
Mobile Gas Stations
at
three
Hearing
your
voice when I sleep and when I drive
In your
memory thirty (almost) years later
it s comforting
but alarming
you
were drunk I know and
my
heros are all fuckups
Pausing
to pay
tribute to all the parents of the world
who
hate their 2.2 children and regularly
tell
them they are worthless of the
indignity
they endure hourly
at the
expense of dementia
Gulping
your
pills straight down Starbucks coffee
one
pill two pill red pill blue pill
that s
what makes the wheel go round
and why
I wear my seatbelt everywhere
even
when I m parked.
Having
a laugh
at Walt Whitman s words
you
were 80 years too early Walt!
But oh,
the things you ve seen in the futures
you
knew all along and it
didn t
make any difference
Going
on
forever this poem is like an Interstate
like 81
in the valley of Virginia that I
will
call home for the next four years of my long life
and
will whiz along
to see
my baby
Calling
and
waiting for no one to pick up
I know,
I called five times before for the same reasons
I ve
been off work for over an hour
but
hey,
why the
hell should you be home?
Reading
the
same line over and over again,
I ve
read it three times already and now
I m
now reading it for the fourth
I don t
really like it,
I m
just stuck
Getting
your
kicks on State Route Six
It goes
on for three thousand miles from
New
York to California
the
crowded redbrick road of desolation
has
died of old age.
Chris Dumond
August '97
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 14:13:10 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Eric R Wood
<wooderi1@PILOT.MSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: A New SUBJECT???(not another Estate
debate)
In-Reply-To: <msg1094460.thr-2b1d.55d4ae2@umit.maine.edu>
from "Tyson
Ouellette" at Oct 21, 97
01:22:41 pm
Content-Type:
text/plain
I
believe we both go to MSU (Michigan State University). In my residential
public
affairs college, James Madison college, there is a first year writing
prof
who has a class about the beats. I
couldn't get into it, but I heard it
was
decent. There are quite a few of us
here who like the beats. There are
more
Vonegut and bukowski fans than Kerouac fans though.
Eric
Wood
wooderi1@pilot.msu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 12:03:10 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: I will not be gagged
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear
Folks on the Beat List - in what may be my last post - fittingly, on
Jack's
death day, Tuesday October 21, 1997 (he died on a Tuesday too)
I thought I had seen the apogee of
outrageousness when I was hauled
by
police out of NYU for defending Jan Kerouac's right to speak at a
conference
about her father. I hadn't. Now I am warned by Mr. Gargan that
if I
continue to speak about the Kerouac Estate, I will be banned from the
Beat-List.
I refuse to be censored, especially
considering what is going on
here
right under Mr. Gargan's and everybody else's noses.
We have an onslaught of posts
attacking virtually every area of my
life,
making outrageous, false claims and suggestions about who I am, what I
am
doing, why I am doing it, etc. People
are speculating about how many
millions
of dollars I am making. Paul Maher,
Attila Gyenis, and Mark
Hemenway
are continuing to talk about the Kerouac Estate as much as they
please
(Mr. Chaput, following last May's pattern, appears to be taking a
rest
while the rest of his gang take swings at me).
All of these
individuals,
friends of John Sampas who are involved in business dealings
with
him and who are therefore clearly PARTISAN, also spoke freely about
matters
related to the Kerouac estate for the five months while I was off
the
list.
In short, according to Mr. Gargan, Mr.
Sampas's whole entourage can
say
anything they want about me or the Kerouac Estate, but I am not allowed
to
speak in reply, under threat of being banned from the list. This is an
outrageously
UNFAIR SITUATION, and I am protesting it here and now with this
post.
Mr. Gargan claims I am a "mud
slinger." The strongest words I
used
were
"crazy" and "bullshit"--not even in the same league with
Mr. Maher's
vocabulary. But be that as it may, was I not mightily provoked? Before I
used
those words, I was told my touch is poisonous, I destroy archives, I am
part of
a "Clinton conspiracy," a "very desperate man" who resorts
to
"hogwash
and crap," etc. etc. Not only did
they insult me, but Mr. Maher
took it
upon himself to paint my dead friend Jan Kerouac, one of the dearest
people
in my life for 20 years, as a cheap golddigger filing "bogus
lawsuits"
with her eye on the main chance. All of
this has been followed up
with
charges that I am "not pure" because I don't work for free and that I
only
accepted Jan's request to be her literary executor because it would
make me
rich.
I may have written "the best of
the Kerouac biographies"--as the
WASHINGTON
POST said recently--but I AM ONLY HUMAN.
As Shylock says, if you
prick a
Jew, will he not bleed? Italians bleed
too when you stab a knife in
them
ten different ways, and like everybody else, they sometimes get a
little
angry.
And who are these people attacking
me? My record of Kerouac
scholarship
goes back 20 years. I have published
OVER 200 books, articles,
prefaces,
etc. on Kerouac and the Beats during that time. I have taught
courses
in the Beats at the University of Illinois and UCLA. I have
lectured
on Kerouac in over a hundred places in several different countries,
and at
scores of universities and colleges, including NYU in 1994. The
people
who are attacking me are 1) a reformed book thief (Mr. Maher); 2) the
owner
of a diner (Mr. Chaput); 3) a computer jock (Mr. Hemenway); and 4) Mr.
Gyenis,
who I believe is a baker.
Mr. Gargan called for a truce on
Jack's death day. Well today is
Jack's
death day, and I open my email to find two hugely malicious postings
from
Mr. Mark Hemenway (who, according to Phil Chaput, is on intimate terms
with
Mr. Sampas) and his former business partner at THE KEROUAC CONNECTION,
Attila
Gyenis, whose attack is no less vitriolic even though it is couched
as
"questions" this time, rather than direct statements.
Mr. Hemenway out and out tells the
public that my work as Jan
Kerouac's
literary executor is "all about MONEY." Mr. Gyenis implies as
much
with his leading "questions"--asking if I get "a share and
control over
Jan's
portion of Jack's royalties" when he has just read Jan's will, which
Wallner
posted, which does not say that at all.
So why ask such a question
if you
already know the answer? Just to put
misleading thoughts in people's
heads? Then he asks another question whose answer
should be obvious to
him--why
didn't I try to get the Kerouac Estate made accessible when I
worked
on MEMORY BABE? I did, I talked with
Tony Sampas about this issue
for
hours on end, and Tony said he wanted the archive to be accessible too,
BUT HE
COULDN'T OPPOSE HIS SISTER STELLA, who voted to have it closed.
Why did I wait so long? That, again, is a question that makes no
sense,
unless it is to plant the idea of me being an opportunist in people's
heads. THERE WAS NO LAW SUIT FOR ME TO HELP JAN
WITH UNTIL 1994, and a
large
part of Jan's reason for filing the suit was TO STOP JOHN SAMPAS FROM
SELLING
OFF PIECES OF KEROUAC'S ARCHIVE TO COLLECTORS AND DEALERS, which
didn't
begin until 1991.
As for his asking me how I discovered
the forgery of Memere's will,
this is
yet one more question HE DOES NOT NEED TO ASK.
I answered ALL THESE
QUESTIONS
IN A DETAILED DEPOSITION TAKEN BY MR. SAMPAS'S LAWYER TWO YEARS
AGO,
and he could easily get Sampas to show him that deposition. Sampas
clearly
showed him Jan's deposition last May, since many of Mr. Gyenis's
posts
at that time revealed statements (and often misstatements made by
Sampas's
lawyer) that only existed in one place: Jan's deposition.
Mr. Gargan, if you are a fair man, I
call upon you to open your eyes
and SEE
what is happening here.
Suppose, Mr. Gargan, that four
individuals linked to your worst
enemy
began making such posts ABOUT YOU:
Mr. Gargan, your touch is poisonous,
it destroys books--you should
not be
working in a library.
Mr. Gargan, we know you are part of
the Clinton conspiracy.
Mr. Gargan, you clearly started the
Beat-List as a means to get rich.
Mr. Gargan, we have evidence that you
are operating the Beat List
illegally.
Mr. Gargan, if you were
"pure," you would donate your entire salary
to the
Naropa Institute.
Would it take you very long to figure
out what was going on? Would
you
feel justified in getting maybe a little mad?
Is it possible you might
even
find yourself using the word LIE, which I used, which is a strong word
to
describe an unscrupulous action, but is not a profanity?
A lie is an honest English word that
describes someone saying
something
he knows is not true. I assert that Mr.
Hemenway's post this
morning
was a lie, because he knows better. If
he is on the intimate terms
with
Mr. Sampas that Phil Chaput suggests, then he knows as much as Mr.
Sampas. And Mr. Sampas knows everything about my
finances, since he is
working
with Mr. Lash to have me thrown out as Jan Kerouac's literary
executor. He knows:
1) I have not yet earned one penny as
Jan Kerouac's literary
executor. Mr. Lash has tied up Jan's entire income,
currently over $100,000
a year
in Kerouac royalties, which were not always that high but trebled
starting
in 1993. Mr. Lash was able to tie up
that income because Mr.
Sampas
instructed Mr. Lord to pay it to him, and Mr. Lord is Mr. Sampas's
agent. Even if Lash had not tied it up, I would
still get none of it
because
I am only to be paid for NEW DEALS WHICH I NEGOTIATE MYSELF.
2) I now have $95,000 in legal bills.
3) I now have close to $10,000 out of
pocket, for airfare and hotel
rooms
for me and my lawyer (when we have to go to court in St. Petersburg
and
Albuquerque), and general office expenses, fax, copies, etc. Mr. Lash
has so
far reimbursed these to the tune of about $650.
4) Far from "gaining all the $$$
that go with the Kerouac Estate,"
as Mr.
Hemenway suggests, he could, if he simply read Jan's will, know that
the
most I would gain from it would be 10% of Jan's one-third. If the
Archive
is sold to a library, which I am committed to see done, that would
bring
in one million dollars. Jan's share
would be $333,333. My share, if
I help
negotiate the sale, would be $33,000.
Bear in mind that I have
already
worked a year and a half with no pay.
Mr. Gargan, all of the above
individuals are close enough to Mr.
Sampas
to know that the suggestions they are making are not true--are, in
fact,
lies. Yet they make them in the hope
that Beat-List readers will
think
"oh, where there's smoke there's fire, Nicosia must be a big crook."
You cannot gag me from telling my side
of the story, and let lies
like
this run rampant.
And yes, I am sorry I had to say all
this on the sacred day that
Saint
Jack (as Aronowitz calls him) died.
Respectfully, Gerald Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 16:04:54 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: I will not be gagged
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
hey
guys:
i was
beyond disenchanted i was outraged to find in my mail this afternoon a
continuation
of the mudslinging contest of which mr
nicosia has been the
target.
i don't
blame him in the least for his response to the continuation of this
whole
fucking mess.
he kept
quiet while others continued to campaign - for what????
this is
the same crap which pushed ron whitehead off this list, and for which
the
list is sorely lacking in enthusiasm and high spirits. i've been
contemplating
whether to go or stay, since returning and dredging through all
the
acrimony.
i say
shame on you, you guys.
i can
only imagine that a great deal of insecurity is behind these attacks on
the
more public and talented members of this list.
and
that's all i will say.
goodbye
to you, gerry if you are still here.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 15:27:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: silencing the lambs
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Dear
Mr. Gargan,
I recently back channeled mr. hemmnin
requesting that he use
back
channel communication to continue his discussion with gerry. i
reiceved
a whiney messageback
Dear
Mr. Gargan,
I recently back channeled mr. hemmnin
requesting that he use
back
channel communication to continue his discussion with gerry. His
return
communication was negative.
I do
not wish to presume to tell you how to discourage the uncivil
behavoir
of some the participants but do feel compelled to ask you if
you
sent messages to all the corners.
i
understand that style differ and my perceptions may be in error or
shaded.
oh
shit, marie is right, what is the hell
is going on. is gerry to be
silenced
because anytime he posts any information a barrage of attacks
from
baby men vomit out. Gerry's language is
charged and he is soo
defensive
that it makes my neck hairs crawl, but
his remarks have been
a
modest response to the barbs that were slung.
patricia
patricia
i tried to back channel you with this
message, but the method i tried
faild.
I do not wish to presume to tell you how to discourage the
uncivil
behavoir of participants but do feel compelled to ask you if you
sent
similar
messages to all the corners, as you seem to have sent to gerry?
I
regret bothering you on this but i do request your response.
patricia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 13:57:27 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Keith Medline
<mrsparty@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Updates
Content-Type:
text/plain
Hello
Everyone,
Once
again there have been some major updates to the site. The main
page
has been revamped (a little). But there
have been some major
contributions
that are truly great. The Poetry page
has gotten another
contribution
and RACE---- got his own page with a graphic.
Come check
it out.
And
please, as always, feel free to mail me poems, ramblings, essays,
commentaries,
parodys, and your own photographs. So
please showcase
your
talents! Send me anything!
Keith
------------------------------------------------------------
Keith mrsparty@hotmail.com / I think of Dean Moriarty.
http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/rothko/31/index.html
------------------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 17:09:04 -0400
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Jack Kerouac....
>From
OTR:
At dawn
my bus was zooming across the Arizona desert--Indio, Blythe, Salome
(where
she danced); the great dry stretches leading to Mexican mountains in
the
south. Then we swung north to the
Arizona mountains, Flagstaff,
clifftowns. I had a book with em I stole from a
Hollywood stall, "Le Grand
Meaulnes"
by Alain-Fournier, but I preferred reading the American landscape
as we
went along. Every bump, rise, and
stretch in it mystified my
longing. In inky night we crossed New Mexico; at gray
dawn it was Dalhart,
Texas;
in the bleak Sunday afternoon we rode through one Oklahoma flat-town
after
another; at nightfall it was Kansas.
The bus roared on. I was going
home in
October. Everyone goes home in October.
Diane.
--
I
should have loved a thunderbird instead. --Sylvia Plath
Diane
M. Homza
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 17:43:33 -0400
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Spreading the Word...
(This
is in reply to Bill Gargan's letter about Beat Lit being taught on
college
campuses. I know subscribe to the
digest from, so I can't include
his
original text)
True, the Beats are gaining more
recognition than they
were in
the past, but there's still a long way to go (I think most of us
realize
this, though). I wrote my senior
seminar (a semester-long research
paper
covering some topic in literature) over the Beats. Here we were,
all
Senior English majors, & I think that only half of my class knew what I
was
writing about. This was just this past
academic semester.
Diane.
--
I
should have loved a thunderbird instead. --Sylvia Plath
Diane
M. Homza ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 16:49:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matthew S Sackmann
<msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>
Subject: Re: I will not be gagged
In-Reply-To: <199710212005.QAA27225@pike.sover.net>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue,
21 Oct 1997, Marie Countryman wrote:
>
hey guys:
> i
was beyond disenchanted i was outraged to find in my mail this afternoon a
>
continuation of the mudslinging contest of which mr nicosia has been the
>
target.
> i
don't blame him in the least for his response to the continuation of this
>
whole fucking mess.
> he
kept quiet while others continued to campaign - for what????
>
this is the same crap which pushed ron whitehead off this list, and for which
>
the list is sorely lacking in enthusiasm and high spirits. i've been
>
contemplating whether to go or stay, since returning and dredging through all
>
the acrimony.
> i
say shame on you, you guys.
> i
can only imagine that a great deal of insecurity is behind these attacks on
>
the more public and talented members of this list.
>
and that's all i will say.
>
goodbye to you, gerry if you are still here.
> mc
>
YES YES
YES! exactly what Marie said! We cannot edit this list. It's
not
what any of the Beats would have wanted.
I sent Gerry a email off the
list,
thanking him for staying as long as he has so far. I know i
probably
would have gotten fed up with the whole thing a long time a go.
But
Gerry's been willing to put up with all the crap, because he's
dedicated
to keepping Jack's memory alive for all of us, so that we can
walk in
a library someday and read straight from the man himself, rather
than
spend lots of money on edited manuscripts.
And God
knows none of us want Marie to leave, I can see the light of Ron
Whitehead
still glimmering in her posts. This
list has soul. Do we
really
want to lose it? Do we really want to
become like the Moloch
America
that the Beats fought so strongly against.
That WE must fight
against.
i don't
want to see this happen, but i feel it happening. This list is SO
WONDERFUL
and i LOVE it dearly, but it does seem to be sllipping.
Let's
not let this happen.
-matt
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 15:06:26 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Kerouac t-shirts, anyone?
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Paul Maher wrote: Try making Disney t-shirts
and selling them outside the gates
>of
DisneyLand and see how far you get that day.
Speaking of t-shirts, as Jan Kerouac's
literary executor I am
empowered
to license the production and marketing of Kerouac t-shirts in the
state
of California and any other state where the right of image devolves to
the
child (as it does in California).
Reasonable terms available. 90%
of
royalties
will be paid to the Jan Kerouac Estate, whose revenues are
currently
being used by John Lash to try to have me thrown out.
This is not a joke, by the way. I still legally have this right,
until
such time as Mr. Lash (and Mr. Sampas) succeed in having me removed.
--contact me thru my private email if
you are interested.
GNicosia@earthlink.net
--best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 17:11:10 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: thanks to keith medline
Comments:
To: bohemian <Bohemian@maelstrom.stjohns.edu>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
i've
been terrorizing keith with changes every second or two to the
stuff i
sent to his new pages. just wanted to
publicly say that i
appreciate
his efforts. if you haven't checked out
his spot yet please
do to
make up for some of the agony i've been putting him through :) :)
And put
some poetry or words on the WALL too!!!
http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/rothko/31/index.html
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
dbr
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 15:15:41 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Questions for Gerry (estate matters)
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Attila
Gyenis wrote:
>5)
What year did Jan start getting royalties from Jack's books?
Answer:
1986, after signing an agreement with the Sampas family, brought
about
by three years of threatened legal action against them. She was
actually
due this money starting in 1978. (And
you are right, she does not
and
will not have any legal right in the unpublished material of Jack's
estate
unless her lawsuit is won in Florida.)
>6)
Were you at the hospital when she died?
Answer:
No, I was not notified that Jan was in the hospital dying. I was
telephoned
with the news only after Debra Bower, John Lash's sister, had
ordered
the plug pulled on Jan's life support.
Jan was on life support less
than a
day, but Ms. Bower had medical power of attorney for Jan, and so was
legally
within her rights to order Jan removed from life support. I wish,
however,
that she had called me before taking that action.
Respectfully, Gerald Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 18:22:55 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Dont leave Gerry! Gargan should resign!
In-Reply-To:
<199710211903.MAA27634@denmark.it.earthlink.net>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
It isnt
the place of a list moderator to censor the list
inappropriately. The estate argument is a resonable topic
here, as long
as
discourse is handled civilly. If Gargan
is trying to force Nicosia
off the
list, he should resign a list moderator!
Lets
have a vote:
Should
Nicosia leave the list or Gargan resignas moderator?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 18:18:22 +0000
Reply-To: randyr@southeast.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is
<randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>
From: randy royal
<randyr@MAILHUB.JAXNET.COM>
Subject: Re: Barnes & Noble not shelving
Kerouac!
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-type:
text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding:
7BIT
a used
book store i recently shopped at in new orleans had their few
kerouac
books behind the counter as well.... i don't want to point
fingers
or anything, but why are jk's books so expensive? i love to
read
him and all, but it is like a real treat when i get anew, i mean
new
edition from a new bookstore, book by him. randy
>
Many of the Barnes and Nobles around NYC are no longer putting the works
> of
Jack Kerouac on their shelves. They
still stock a good assortment but
>
unlike every other author in the fiction section, at several stores I
>
have seen a sign in the K's where Kerouac should be, saying "For Jack
>
Kerouac, see Bookkseller" At at
least three of the superstores, the
>
policy is now to keep all the Kerouac works either in the stockroom or on
>
the storage shelves high above the actual bookshelves.
>
>
Kerouac's books apparently get shoplifted a lot because they are all
>
trade paperbacks that are relatively expensive.
>
>
Still this is no way to treat a great author.
They dont keep Mark Twain
> or
Ernest Hemingway's works back in the stockroom, with a sign saying for
>
these works see a bookkseller. Someone
wanting to browse some Kerouac at
>
these stores (Union Square, 6th Ave,. Astor Place among others) cannot
>
easily do so. They must ask the
bookseller to go get a copy of a Kerouac
>
out of the backroom, and then give it back.
>
>
This is horrible...*arg*
>
>
Richard W.
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 17:29:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Dont leave Gerry!
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
neither,
is my
vote, don't jump to conclusions, even though i did jump to a send
button
before i edited. I have come to respect
bill gargan and truely
appreciate
what he has done. I also respect
gerry.Bill has not posted
on this
subject and i do not wish to listen to more garbage and no meat.
this is
a hard one and all or nothing attutude probably won't work for
us. oddly enough this list has changed my life,
it has been interesting
and
good for me. I don't like everyone on
the list but so fucking what.
but if
posts aren's substantive and have some merit i would like to have
a way
to keep the vilest to private posts and not offer them a stage i
am
sharing.
p
'
Richard
Wallner wrote:
>
> It
isnt the place of a list moderator to censor the list
>
inappropriately. The estate argument is
a resonable topic here, as long
> as
discourse is handled civilly. If Gargan
is trying to force Nicosia
>
off the list, he should resign a list moderator!
>
>
Lets have a vote:
>
>
Should Nicosia leave the list or Gargan resignas moderator?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 18:36:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Gerry
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Gerry:
When
you say last post, I hope you only mean on this subject. I hope
you
will not let this situation drive you off the list.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 17:34:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Updates
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Keith
Medline wrote:
>
>
Hello Everyone,
>
>
Once again there have been some major updates to the site. The main
>
page has been revamped (a little). But
there have been some major
>
contributions that are truly great. The
Poetry page has gotten another
>
contribution and RACE---- got his own page with a graphic. Come check
> it
out.
>
And please, as always, feel free to mail me poems, ramblings, essays,
>
commentaries, parodys, and your own photographs. So please showcase
>
your talents! Send me anything!
>
Keith
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
>
Keith mrsparty@hotmail.com / I think of Dean Moriarty.
>
http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/rothko/31/index.html
>
------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
______________________________________________________
>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Keith,
it is fun watching the evolution of your page. I failed to find
the
graphic for race's page. Hey david can
i send him the picture of
you
with your hat, when you were at williams' house?
keith I thank you for the parody page, was
steaming here, went there,
better
now.
p
p
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 18:58:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Re: Dont leave Gerry! Gargan should
resign!
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Richard:
I am
not sure that this is the appropriate question. The question is
can we
have a list where Gerry and other poets are not subject to biased
attacks
that drive them off the list. The
identity of the detractors
has
been relatively consistent. How do we
have civilized discussion of
the
issues is the question? Gerry and
others should not be subject to
such
continued onslaughts, or else the ones who are trying to oust him
will be
the winners and we will all be losers.
Richard
Wallner wrote:
> It
isnt the place of a list moderator to censor the list
>
inappropriately. The estate argument is
a resonable topic here, as
>
long
> as
discourse is handled civilly. If Gargan
is trying to force Nicosia
>
>
off the list, he should resign a list moderator!
>
>
Lets have a vote:
>
>
Should Nicosia leave the list or Gargan resignas moderator?
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 19:04:33 -0400
Reply-To: Greg Elwell <elwellg@voicenet.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Greg Elwell
<elwellg@VOICENET.COM>
Subject: Re: Barnes & Noble not shelving
Kerouac!
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Hey! This sounds like communism. Pretty soon we're going to have to wait
in line
to get any books!
Greg
Elwell
-----Original
Message-----
From:
Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date:
Monday, October 20, 1997 10:34 AM
Subject:
Barnes & Noble not shelving Kerouac!
>Many
of the Barnes and Nobles around NYC are no longer putting the works
>of
Jack Kerouac on their shelves. They
still stock a good assortment but
>unlike
every other author in the fiction section, at several stores I
>have
seen a sign in the K's where Kerouac should be, saying "For Jack
>Kerouac,
see Bookkseller" At at least three
of the superstores, the
>policy
is now to keep all the Kerouac works either in the stockroom or on
>the
storage shelves high above the actual bookshelves.
>
>Kerouac's
books apparently get shoplifted a lot because they are all
>trade
paperbacks that are relatively expensive.
>
>Still
this is no way to treat a great author.
They dont keep Mark Twain
>or
Ernest Hemingway's works back in the stockroom, with a sign saying for
>these
works see a bookkseller. Someone
wanting to browse some Kerouac at
>these
stores (Union Square, 6th Ave,. Astor Place among others) cannot
>easily
do so. They must ask the bookseller to
go get a copy of a Kerouac
>out
of the backroom, and then give it back.
>
>This
is horrible...*arg*
>
>Richard
W.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 16:30:01 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Keith Medline
<mrsparty@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Essay Call
Content-Type:
text/plain
Hello,
I am looking for Essays on the following
topics for my page. if you
would
be willing to contribute them or have a copy of something similar
send it
in, by all means.
1)
Women of the Beat Movement
2)
Modern repurcussions of the Beat Movement
3) Fond
memorys of Kerouac with exerpts from
his work
4)
Essay on the Modern Beat Development
5) A
definition of "Beat" with a modern perspective
As
always I am still asking for any contributions or Suggestions.
Keith
------------------------------------------------------------
Keith mrsparty@hotmail.com / I think of Dean Moriarty.
http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/rothko/31/index.html
------------------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 18:30:08 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Entropy Operator
<rush2@INSTANTLINUX.COM>
Subject: Re: Barnes & Noble not shelving
Kerouac!
Comments:
To: randyr@southeast.net
In-Reply-To:
<199710212212.SAA12443@mailhub.southeast.net>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> a
used book store i recently shopped at in new orleans had their few
>
kerouac books behind the counter as well.... i don't want to point
>
fingers or anything, but why are jk's books so expensive? i love to
>
read him and all, but it is like a real treat when i get anew, i mean
>
new edition from a new bookstore, book by him. randy
I just
picke up a new copy of subterraneans, dharma bums, desolation
angles
and on the road for $30.. I think that's reasonable for books ($30
toal
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 19:33:50 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Dont leave Gerry! Gargan should
resign!
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
uh,
richard, perhaps you should chill out a bit.
mc
Richard
Wallner wrote:
> It
isnt the place of a list moderator to censor the list
>
inappropriately. The estate argument is
a resonable topic here, as long
> as
discourse is handled civilly. If Gargan
is trying to force Nicosia
>
off the list, he should resign a list moderator!
>
>
Lets have a vote:
>
>
Should Nicosia leave the list or Gargan resignas moderator?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 16:43:12 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Keith Medline
<mrsparty@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Faction
Content-Type:
text/plain
Dear
BEAT-L subscribers,
What is taking place is a dangerous
phenomenon called majority
faction. It is an ugly beast that can turn a group
into a relic. James
Madison
warned people of this in the Federalist Paper #10. He says that
it can
kill a nation, be careful or it will kill us.
This discussion forum is a valuable tool
for communication. I know
that my
knowledge and love has increased through the support and
interesting
times I have seen on BEAT-L.
Think about how good it feels when you
efforts and opinions are
rewarded
with praise. By attacking each other
you not only are acting
with a
large degree of hubris, but also you rip the artistic coheasion
of the
group apart.
Today on the anniversary of the death of
Jack Kerouac who has
inspired
so many of you, guided so many of you, and given so many of you
a
common cause you can do nothing but brow bash each other? To me this
is more
a dissappointment than anything else.
Grudges are never a good thing. What took plae is unfortunate.
This is
true. Both camps cannot understand the
others claims because
both sides
fail to realize one thing.
What is done, is done. Accusations, judgements, and other
character
asassinations are futile in solving anything.
It is
impossible
now to salvage both sides claims. This
is a shame indeed.
However,
there is still room for both camps.
Please unite, there is
nothing
less productive than a long battle.
Not only are casualtys
measured
in personal loss, but also in the loss of a much greater thing.
The
BEAT-L listserv.
Please, if you care about everyone else,
stop this arguing. It is
making
others feel uncomfortable. If the
battle must drag on, please
continue
it OUTSIDE this group.
Thank you for hearing my comments on this
subject. I hope there
can be
a suitable solution to this problem that doesn't include the
destruction
of BEAT-L.
Sincerely,
Keith
------------------------------------------------------------
Keith mrsparty@hotmail.com / I think of Dean Moriarty.
http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/rothko/31/index.html
------------------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 16:50:35 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: The Dirty Goat
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear
Beat-L readers: Oct
21, 1997
No, this post is not about any of my
illustrious opponents on the
Beat-List.
I would like to announce the recent
publication of my essay "The Old
Hobo
Saint of Camel Trails" in ISSUE 8 of the international literary
magazine,
THE DIRTY GOAT, which is published by Host Publications in Austin
Texas. This 6000-word essay is the text of a talk I
gave on Jack Kerouac's
spirituality
at Middlesex Community College in Lowell, Massachusetts, on
September
24, 1994. In the essay, I examine the
various theories of
Kerouac's
spirituality, was he a Catholic? a Buddhist? etc. and come up with
my own
unique theory. Must reading for those
interested in Kerouac's
spiritual
dimension.
Copies of THE DIRTY GOAT #8 have been
distributed to bookstores
across
the country. But you can also order one
directly from Host
Publications
at 2712 Wooldridge, Austin, TX 78703.
Cost is ten dollars plus
two
bucks postage.
P.S.
To Wallner and others interested in my finances, I don't make
any
royalties on this magazine whatsoever.
In fact, I was not paid for the
essay,
I donated it to the magazine, and was given one contributor's copy free.
P.P.S. The publisher of THE DIRTY GOAT is Joe Bratcher III, who is
himself
a Burroughs scholar of some renown. I
suggested to Joe that he
might
want to get on the Beat List to talk about Burroughs, etc., and
hopefully
his appearance here is imminent.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 19:47:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: Estate $$$$
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
8bit
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU,.Internet
writes:
>I
would think that it was pretty clear that if Gerry Nicosia wins the
>estate
battle, he stands to gain all the $$$ that go with it. I'd like
>to
see him make a clear, unequivocal statement for the record what HE
>intends
to do with that money. Never mind whether anyone deserves it, or
>how
hard he's worked or all the abuse he feels he has put up with. What
>is
he going to do with the money?
it doesn't matter. the ten percent that belongs to Gerry is his
and
well deserved, and the wish of Jack Kerouac.
it's really not fair
to harp
on him for making money. now the jan estate money, his plans
for
that would be interesting to know, but what he does with his share
is
absolutely none of our business, and i suggest we stop imposing
unreal
idealisms on him, idealisms we'd not likely successfully place
on
ourselves.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 19:10:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Brian M. Kirchhoff"
<bkirchho@S-CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: Re: A New SUBJECT???(not another Estate debate)
In-Reply-To:
<19971021001128.10060.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
i'm in
omaha, ne, the heart of america, and there is a wonderful class
entitled:
"English 3000: Beats and Hippies" at the University of Nebraska
in
Omaha. sure, it's not all that common, but the classes are out there
now and
gaining strength for the future.
Brian
M. Kirchhoff----Omaha, NE
"Someone
must have been telling lies about Joeseph K., for without having
done
anything wrong he was arrested one fine morning." -Kafka, The Trial
On Mon,
20 Oct 1997, Keith Medline wrote:
>
This may be true in an urban setting, but what about the rest of us.
>
Must we travel to cities to find an education?
Conservative America is
>
repressing the Beats. In Ann Arbor
(UofM) the beat literature is alive.
>
Yet in the same state at a rival college MSU the beats only live in a
>
few people. One being Dr. Rod Phillips
who turned me on to their works.
> it
really opened my eyes, because I considered my liberal arts education
> to
be quite good. The beats however were
not even mentioned as a force
> in
American Society formation.
>
>
>
>The Beats are being taught now, I'm happy to say, in colleges and high
>
schools
>
>all around the country. Several
people on this list have taught and/or
>
taken c
>
>ourses on the list. I'll let them
respond for themselves. There are
>
courses t
>
>hat have been taught in several units of the City University of New
>
York: Brook
>
>lyn College, Queens College, Hunter College, and the Graduate Center.
>
There's
>
>even a beat course at Midwood High School in Brooklyn. The list of
>
courses is
>
> growing.
>
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 09:05:43 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: I will not be gagged
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>
Gerald Nicosia wrote:
>
You cannot gag me from telling my side of the story, and let lies
>
like this run rampant.
Gerry,
As much
as I have tried to ignore the estate battle this time around,
after
this post I cannot ignore it anymore. The truth is that Bill Gargan
has
done an excellent job as list moderator.
His job should be to allow
the
free flow of ideas and facts and not have to referee a boxing match.
He
would never ask you to take it off the list if you stuck to the facts
of the
court case or sincerely only wanted to share your knowledge of
Jack
and Jan Kerouac. The truth is you
resort to the exact same tactics
you
accuse others of. Look at the subject
headers of your own posts,
taken
from the last week: Paul Maher of the
Libel Quarterly, What Phil
Chaput
Really Said about the Sampases, Mr. Maher has gone off the deep
end,
Has Mr. Sampas Been Making Illegal Xeroxes, Sampas Calls on Gyenis
for
Reinforcements, Who Wants to Fight?
This is not intelligent
discussion
of the issues at hand by any stretch of the imagination. And
until
you cease from such vehement attacks of your own, how can you
possible
expect anyone to give your position the serious consideration it
deserves. Bill is not censoring ideas or discussion,
he is simply asking
you and
all of us to discuss things without abusive barrages, and if you
can't
do that, then yes, you should be asked to leave the list.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 19:40:10 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>At
least one of the principles--IMHO--wants that too.
What is
IMHO?
Jym
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 18:28:55 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sarah Sage <yb806@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: I will not be gagged
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.94.971021164141.42956A-100000@spnode04.tcs.tulane.edu>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
The
only thing I have to voice is my agreement with this message
On Tue,
21 Oct 1997, Matthew S Sackmann wrote:
> On
Tue, 21 Oct 1997, Marie Countryman wrote:
>
>
> hey guys:
>
> i was beyond disenchanted i was outraged to find in my mail this afternoon
a
>
> continuation of the mudslinging contest of which mr nicosia has been the
>
> target.
>
> i don't blame him in the least for his response to the continuation of
this
>
> whole fucking mess.
>
> he kept quiet while others continued to campaign - for what????
>
> this is the same crap which pushed ron whitehead off this list, and for
which
>
> the list is sorely lacking in enthusiasm and high spirits. i've been
>
> contemplating whether to go or stay, since returning and dredging through
all
>
> the acrimony.
>
> i say shame on you, you guys.
>
> i can only imagine that a great deal of insecurity is behind these attacks
on
>
> the more public and talented members of this list.
>
> and that's all i will say.
>
> goodbye to you, gerry if you are still here.
>
> mc
>
>
>
>
>
YES YES YES! exactly what Marie
said! We cannot edit this list. It's
>
not what any of the Beats would have wanted.
I sent Gerry a email off the
>
list, thanking him for staying as long as he has so far. I know i
>
probably would have gotten fed up with the whole thing a long time a go.
>
But Gerry's been willing to put up with all the crap, because he's
>
dedicated to keepping Jack's memory alive for all of us, so that we can
>
walk in a library someday and read straight from the man himself, rather
>
than spend lots of money on edited manuscripts.
>
And God knows none of us want Marie to leave, I can see the light of Ron
>
Whitehead still glimmering in her posts.
This list has soul. Do we
>
really want to lose it? Do we really
want to become like the Moloch
>
America that the Beats fought so strongly against. That WE must fight
>
against.
>
> i
don't want to see this happen, but i feel it happening. This list is SO
>
WONDERFUL and i LOVE it dearly, but it does seem to be sllipping.
>
>
Let's not let this happen.
>
>
-matt
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 20:12:41 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: Don't leave Gerry!
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
I also
vote to keep the BEAT-L open to *everyone* with something relevant
to
say...regardless of if I agree with them or not. If you don't like the
current
thread (whatever the subject), what's wrong with your delete key?
Jym
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 18:43:37 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sarah Sage
<yb806@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: Dont leave Gerry! Gargan should
resign!
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.971021181821.18771A-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue,
21 Oct 1997, Richard Wallner wrote:
> It
isnt the place of a list moderator to censor the list
>
inappropriately. The estate argument is
a resonable topic here, as long
> as
discourse is handled civilly. If Gargan
is trying to force Nicosia
>
off the list, he should resign a list moderator!
>
>
Lets have a vote:
>
>
Should Nicosia leave the list or Gargan resignas moderator?
>
Nicosia should STAY! And I don't know if
this would work, but I think
instead
of having one person be the moderator, the whole list should
decide,
and if we need to vote about something, we vote. If everyone
decides
it doesn't work, it does'nt work and we go back to one
moderator-but
it can't hurt to try.
Sarah
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 01:44:19 UT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: I will not be gagged
but
then in that case, such a request should extend to others who participated
in the
uncivil discourse. i too think Bill has
done a good job since i've
been on
the list; however, i hardly call it moderation to ask only one member
of a
group that has been uncivil, to leave.
sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Diane Carter
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 1997 9:05 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: I will not be gagged
>
Gerald Nicosia wrote:
>
You cannot gag me from telling my side of the story, and let lies
>
like this run rampant.
Gerry,
As much
as I have tried to ignore the estate battle this time around,
after
this post I cannot ignore it anymore. The truth is that Bill Gargan
has
done an excellent job as list moderator.
His job should be to allow
the
free flow of ideas and facts and not have to referee a boxing match.
He
would never ask you to take it off the list if you stuck to the facts
of the
court case or sincerely only wanted to share your knowledge of
Jack
and Jan Kerouac. The truth is you
resort to the exact same tactics
you
accuse others of. Look at the subject
headers of your own posts,
taken
from the last week: Paul Maher of the
Libel Quarterly, What Phil
Chaput
Really Said about the Sampases, Mr. Maher has gone off the deep
end,
Has Mr. Sampas Been Making Illegal Xeroxes, Sampas Calls on Gyenis
for
Reinforcements, Who Wants to Fight?
This is not intelligent
discussion
of the issues at hand by any stretch of the imagination. And
until
you cease from such vehement attacks of your own, how can you
possible
expect anyone to give your position the serious consideration it
deserves. Bill is not censoring ideas or discussion,
he is simply asking
you and
all of us to discuss things without abusive barrages, and if you
can't
do that, then yes, you should be asked to leave the list.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 19:02:59 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sarah Sage
<yb806@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
In-Reply-To:
<199710220107.UAA08798@mail.execpc.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue,
21 Oct 1997, Jym Mooney wrote:
>
>At least one of the principles--IMHO--wants that too.
>
>
What is IMHO?
>
>
Jym
>
Jym,
I'm not posative, but I think this means "In My Humble Opinion"
Sarah
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 02:08:18 UT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Dont leave Gerry! Gargan should
resign!
Sarah -
this is Bill's list. he tries to just
let it roll on it's own; this
situation
has caused problems and he has a right to make decisions in order to
remedy
the problems. my only concern is that,
if indeed Gerry was the only
person
asked to leave, it wasn't fair. i don't
believe that he initiated
anything
inflammatory; i do believe he let himself react in a manner that was
as
uncivil as those with whom he was fighting.
i dearly hope and pray Gerry
doesn't
leave the list. but if he is ASKED to
leave, and the others aren't,
then it
is unfair.
sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Sarah Sage
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 1997 6:43 PM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: Dont leave Gerry! Gargan should
resign!
On Tue,
21 Oct 1997, Richard Wallner wrote:
> It
isnt the place of a list moderator to censor the list
>
inappropriately. The estate argument is
a resonable topic here, as long
> as
discourse is handled civilly. If Gargan
is trying to force Nicosia
> off
the list, he should resign a list moderator!
>
>
Lets have a vote:
>
>
Should Nicosia leave the list or Gargan resignas moderator?
>
Nicosia should STAY! And I don't know if
this would work, but I think
instead
of having one person be the moderator, the whole list should
decide,
and if we need to vote about something, we vote. If everyone
decides
it doesn't work, it does'nt work and we go back to one
moderator-but
it can't hurt to try.
Sarah
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 21:14:43 -0500
Reply-To: cawilkie@comic.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cathy Wilkie
<cawilkie@COMIC.NET>
Subject: being absent
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
--
I too
just returned from a long and hard and emotional journey ranging
from
denver to chicaGO and many worlds in between, and all i have to say
about marie's
comment is, "I agree."
cw
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 21:20:39 -0500
Reply-To: cawilkie@comic.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cathy Wilkie
<cawilkie@COMIC.NET>
Subject: marie's howl w/ whine chaser
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>
Subject:
> howl with a whine chaser
> Date:
> Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:43:04 +0000
> From:
> Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
>
>
> on
a lighter note, i just returned via bus to and from music and spoken
>
word event, and couldn't help myself i had to write this..
>
>
howl with a whine chaser:
> i saw the best part of my mind destroyed
by sleep deprivation,
> starving
> hysterical naked
> dragging myself through the greyhound
stations looking for my
> angry
> luggage
> angelheaded hipsterette burning for the
ancient heavenly.....
and so
on and so forth . Marie, my dear, i
believe you have just hit
the
nail on the head as far as bus travel goes.
in '92 i took a
greyhound
out to santa barbara and it was the most horrific yet
wonderful
experience of my sad sad life. you've
got a way with words,
babe. don't let that go...
cw
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 22:35:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Open message to Bill--Long Post
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Bill:
Apparantly
I missed your message, if it was on the list, asking Gerry to
leave
the list. If you have sent him such a
message, I hope you will
reconsider. I feel that Gerry should not be asked to
leave the list. I
know of
no other person on this list that had to suffer the slings and
arrows
thrown at him. (I was not on the list
when the poet that MC
refers
to was run off the list.) If that is
your position, I hope that
you
will reconsider and allow Gerry to stay.
As I
recall this thread was begun by Phil Chaput posting a "quote" from
John
Sampas. As I recall, Phil did not
follow up with many posts, but I
immediately
stated my desire that the thread not be reignited. In fact,
I tend
to agree with James that it should be left off list. It then was
fueled
by Maher and then Attilla and a few others.
Gerry responded to
them
and it seems that he ought to be able to defend his honor. I
personally
wish that he would let some of it go, as it does not bear a
real
response. On ther other hand, FACTS
often are left in people's
minds
by simple repetition. So, while I wish
it were not deemed
necessary
by Gerry, I would like to see it die.
But, on
the other hand, I have learned some new facts, and we all have
seen a
portion of the letter that has been discussed as well. Further,
Gerry
has shared with us his personal involvement with the estate
matters
involving Jan. I for one am very glad
to learn that Lash and
Sampas
have an "agreeement." And
while Sampas has his defenders on the
list, I
have yet to see him on the list and his dealings are not made
known
to us. So, we have had a unique
opportunity to learn what is
going
on inside one of the most significant court cases being litigated
in this
Country today. We are indeed blessed by
this development. And
in a
very odd way, have Mr. Maher to thank for
that. So, while I do
agree
with James, I also am glad to have learned some important facts.
There
is another issue that has not been discussed here and has nothing
to do
with the discussion that has raised our passions. However, it is
one of
great importance to the legal world and to the literary world. I
hope
Gerry can comment on this if he is still on the list. If I am
correct,
the probate court has ruled that Lash can discharge Nicosia as
literary
executor. There is a reason that Gerry
and others are
appointed
as literary executors and it is to keep control of these
issues
from the executor. Now we know that
Lash and Sampas have a deal,
but
they haven't told us what it is. But,
we do know that if this
precedent
is upheld, that there is no real safety in appointing a
literary
executor to keep control from the executor.
So, whether you
like
Gerry or not, if you want the intergrity of wills to be upheld and
to keep
executors to be kept from interfering in literary matters, you
best
hope that Gerry wins this case. At the
current time, the case in
Florida
is stayed awaiting the result of this case.
Even if Gerry wins
in NM
and Lash can not fire him, there is no guarantee that he will win
in
FL. It is very difficult to prove a
forgery and to upset a will.
So,
there is no real surety that Gerry winning will change anything with
regard
to the administration of Jack's notebooks, papers etc. BUT, we
are
guraranteed bad precedent that is not good for the literary world if
Gerry
loses in NM.
Personally,
I doubt that we will never know the whole story unless Gerry
writes
a book about it. I would like to see
him win in NM and then
see if
he can get some discovery, like the deal between Lash and Sampas,
in
FL. But I do not believe that we will
ever hear the facts from Lash
and
Sampas if Lash wins in NM.
Well,
that is a lot for my 44th birthday.
But, I feel very strongly
that is
not fair to ask Gerry to leave the list.
I do feel that the
personal
attacks on Gerry, or any list member should be caused to
cease. I also wish Gerry would not respond to the
nonsense, but I can
only
wish.
Thanks.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 21:40:59 -0500
Reply-To: cawilkie@comic.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cathy Wilkie
<cawilkie@COMIC.NET>
Subject: let's be realistic here, bob
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>
From:
> Bob Lewis <kokupokit@JUNO.COM>
>
>
>
marie-
>
are you trying to start an argument here or what? this is no place for
>
that kind of nonsense. we're a beat discussion group, focused on the
>
discussion of beat literature, and surely none of us would ever use this
> as
a public forum to debate personal issues. :)
>
>
>
Bob,
buddy. did it ever occur to you that
some of us use this list to
get to
know one another, before we start discussing the heavy beat
issues? Personally, that is why i signed up, is to
get to know the
people
out there who enjoy reading the same type of books as I. If
everyone
out there disagrees with me, then so be it, I will gladly sign
off the
list. I like discussing issues as much
as the next person, but
i kinda
like to know who the heck it is i'm speaking to. Nothing
personal,
bob, but I've lived my entire life trying to get over how some
collegiate
and scholarly types are just poseurs trying to come off much
smarter
than the average small town white chick.
sincerely
yours
cathy
wilkie
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 22:51:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: 10/21/69 and memories of Jack
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi
everyone,
I had to put this alert out on the list.
If you've filcked your
finger
too quickly in estate battle induced frenzy you may have missed the
poem
belw that Adrien Begrand posted today. It's really fine and bears lots
of
re-reading...do yourself a favor. This goes right in with my favorite
poetry
posts of the past from John Mitchell ["Asshole"], Marie Countryman
["pome
'bout poets"], Ron Whitehead, Patricia Elliot ["Shooting with the men
1985"],
and David Rhaesa...and Joe Grant's hoboing stories.
Antoine
*******************
10/21/69
two
a.m.
desolate
millsounds
thundering
resounding machinery
I think of Duluoz
under
orion's belt
illuminated
plume of steam
towering
over the town
I think of Duluoz
cool
crisp October air
light
snowfall
my own
Desolation
I think of Duluoz
100
miles of open highway going
north
west east
south
I think of Duluoz
'Round
Midnight
Ornithology
Salt
Peanuts!
I think of Duluoz
All
Life Is Suffering
walking
on water wasn't built in a day
you
can't fall off a mountain!
I think of Duluoz
Redbrick
Lowell
Shadowyvisions
of Dr. Sax
I think of Duluoz
Irwin
on the subway
Bull in
Louisiana
Dean
naked in the doorway
I think of Duluoz
Chicago-jazz
& tea high
Denver-holy
visions
San
Francisco-boddhisatvas, midnight angels
I think of Duluoz
Mexican
fellaheen
Mexican
tea
Mexican
whores
I think of Duluoz
Southern
Pacific
Midnight
Ghost
the St.
Teresa Bum
I think of Duluoz
Gallery
Six
Wail
Go!
I think of Duluoz
Desolation
peak
Hozomeen
looming
ennui
& haikus
I think of Duluoz
King of
the beatniks
generation
spokesperson
beaten
I think of Duluoz
Big Sur
delerium
Sea
I think of Duluoz
Lowell
Stella
Memere's
apronstrings
I think of Duluoz
has-been
drunk
lousy
father & husband
I think of Duluoz
2:30
a.m.
sounds
of Monk &
sounds
of the mill
I think of Duluoz
Paradise
Smith
Kerouac
Is all
well?
Will
all be well?
Just
keep guarding us,
Jacky, m'boy
--Adrien
Begrand
10/21/97
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"Blessed are they who can laugh at
themselves, for they shall never
cease
to be amused."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 19:47:55 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
-----Original
Message-----
From:
Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
Date:
Tuesday, October 21, 1997 6:10 PM
Subject:
Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
>>At
least one of the principles--IMHO--wants that too.
>
>What
is IMHO?
>
>Jym
>.-
In My
Humble Opinion
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 20:17:27 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Keith Medline
<mrsparty@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: 102 hits
Content-Type:
text/plain
Well
everyone,
I have
surpassed the 100 hit mark. However, I
still need a few things.
I have
a page called Writings On The Wall which basically posts little
eptiaphs,
8 line or less poems, quotes, or short anecdotes.
If you
are interested in contributing to this feature of my site, just
e-mail
me your contribution with the subject as WALL.
Thanks
a 100,
Keith
------------------------------------------------------------
Keith mrsparty@hotmail.com / I think of Dean Moriarty.
http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/rothko/31/index.html
------------------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________________
Get Your
Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 21:48:21 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "MYLES A. HASELHORST"
<hase8846@BLUE.UNCO.EDU>
Subject: Words from Kerouac himself:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.3.89.9710211924.A13770-0100000@vifa1>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
This is
from the book HEAVEN & Other Poems:
I am only a jolly storyteller and have
nothing to do with politics
or
schemes and my only plan is the old Chinese Way of the Tao: "avoid the
authorities."
I am a bibulous old jolly drunk and I love everybody.
Jack Kerouac
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 20:58:05 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Bill Gargan
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Richard,
Bill
Gargan is not the moderator. Bill is
the list owner. He has done
a
marvelous job with this list. He has
repeatedly requested that this
discussion
cease for awhile. That strikes many of
us as a reasonable
request.
If you
don't like Bill's list, start another.
You can invite Gerry and
those
who would like to flog this same horse day after day for years
could
join. Estate-L would make a nice tag
line.
j.
Stauffer
Richard
Wallner wrote:
>
> It
isnt the place of a list moderator to censor the list
>
inappropriately. The estate argument is
a resonable topic here, as long
> as
discourse is handled civilly. If Gargan
is trying to force Nicosia
>
off the list, he should resign a list moderator!
>
>
Lets have a vote:
>
>
Should Nicosia leave the list or Gargan resignas moderator?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 12:36:28 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: let's be realistic here, bob
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>
Cathy Wilkie wrote:
>
>
> From:
>
> Bob Lewis
<kokupokit@JUNO.COM>
>
>
>
>
>
> marie-
>
> are you trying to start an argument here or what? this is no place
>
> for
>
> that kind of nonsense. we're a beat discussion group, focused on the
>
> discussion of beat literature, and surely none of us would ever use
>
> this
>
> as a public forum to debate personal issues. :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Bob, buddy. did it ever occur to you
that some of us use this list to
>
get to know one another, before we start discussing the heavy beat
>
issues? Personally, that is why i
signed up, is to get to know the
>
people out there who enjoy reading the same type of books as I. If
>
everyone out there disagrees with me, then so be it, I will gladly sign
>
off the list. I like discussing issues
as much as the next person, but
> i
kinda like to know who the heck it is i'm speaking to. Nothing
>
personal, bob, but I've lived my entire life trying to get over how
>
some
>
collegiate and scholarly types are just poseurs trying to come off much
>
smarter than the average small town white chick.
>
sincerely yours
>
cathy wilkie
Did it
ever occur to you that maybe Bob was making a joke to Marie?
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 23:54:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bob Lewis <kokupokit@JUNO.COM>
Subject: bob's rebuttal...
yes
cathie- the thought of using the list to discuss beat issues has
crossed
my mind once or twice. i'm surpised
it's not called beat-l or
something
crazy like that.
no need
to take offense cathie,or anyone else i may have offended. just
trying
to make light of a situation that some of us aren't involved in.
(not
downplaying the importance- this issue means a helluva lot to many
people-
anyone concerned with kerouac, in fact)
and
thats all i gotta say bout that.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 21:53:32 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Estate-L
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Bill
Gargan is not the moderator. Bill is
the list owner. He has done
>a
marvelous job with this list. He has
repeatedly requested that this
>discussion
cease for awhile. That strikes many of
us as a reasonable
>request.
>
>If
you don't like Bill's list, start another.
You can invite Gerry and
>those
who would like to flog this same horse day after day for years
>could
join. Estate-L would make a nice tag
line.
>
>j.
Stauffer
James, Oct 21, 1997
In these last few waning hours of Jack
Day you make me laugh, thanks.
Yes, I'm ready to move on to
Estate-L. The resistance is too high
on this
particular wire, the heat to light ratio is far exceeding the safety
standards
for aging biographers and literary executors.
Though I'm glad to
have
gotten some information out, anyway, as Bentz Kirby says. A number of
people
told me privately that their eyes were opened by what I posted.
That's
all I ask.
I was a teacher for enough years to
know that good teachers don't
win
popularity contests.
To all my supporters, yes, I'm still
on the list. I've assured Mr.
Gargan
I'm cooling it. I'll wait till the next
big day in court to post
further
news. Though you can be sure, if I
lose, my esteemed adversaries
will
get it posted so fast you'll know long before I get home from New Mexico.
"If you're not pissing people
off, you must be doing something
wrong,"
Tim Leary once told me. So maybe by
Tim's standards I am doing
something
right. God rest his soul too, tonight.
Adios, for a while. I'm still available for questions. But please,
not how
much money I'm making! (It's never
enough at the end of the month,
suffice
it to say.)
--Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 00:03:16 -0500
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bob Lewis <kokupokit@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Words from Kerouac himself:
i was
thinking the same thing... i think the line from that famous speech
jack
gave about the beat generation was something along those lines-
"live
your life out, nah, love your life out"
we are
only shaming him with these battles...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 00:27:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Gerry Nicosia and others
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
hey,
since i
switched to the digest format i get to see all the blood in one
swoooooosh! i have to say that it is something like
attending a rooster
fight
(i'm guessing actually having never been to a rooster fight
<grin>).
i
finished your biography since the last time you were on the list and
think
that it is basically "INCREDIBLE".
i hope
that your vietnam veterans book is coming along at a perfect
pace.
i wish
that there were things that the people on the Beat-L could do to
help
you get your Memory Babe archives transferred - that seems a shame.
i
definitely wish that you had time to interact on other subjects on the
List --
given the catalogue of information in your biography of JK, it
seems
like you probably have a few stories that would be lovely to hear.
<smile>
it
sounds as though your case in New Mexico is coming along very well.
I haven't
heard much in the way of reasons why you shouldn't win that
case. i'd actually love to read the appellate
briefs on it.
i
wonder when the ruling on the signature in Florida will eventually
come
about. (i wonder if hell might freeze
over first!!! <laughing at
the
speedy process of all my friends who are lawyers>
i doubt
that i agree with you on the question of property rights
disposal. i don't have any trouble with disagreeing
with people on
things
sometimes.
i wish
that we all didn't take ourselves so seriously.
sincerely,
david
rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 00:40:44 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Jo Grant
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
i think
that what i've read in the digests has been re-hash (mostly its
been
about the "right" to re-hash which was even more dull).
the
MAIN new information is the factual points in Gerry N.'s original
post
followed by thoughts which might have better been ignored.
as for
the save the memory babe archive - i'm not able to provide money
-- but
it was my understanding that Gerry's intention as of last Spring
was the
money should go to Paul not Gerry's issues.
Has this changed?
Did i
misunderstand that? Or are you just saying
"Let's raise money
regardless
of what Gerry says" (which might be kool, Gerry seems to
sometimes
put others first)?
wondering,
david
rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 02:04:12 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Jon B. Pearlstone"
<THYE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Kerouac Quarterly sample copies
available
Send me
a sample of the Kerouac Quarterly as well--thanks
Jon
Pearlstone
P.O.
Box 2309
San
Anselmo, CA 94960
Thanks
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 01:58:18 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Stukeeper2@AOL.COM
Subject: .
suscribe
Erin Stuart
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 02:59:35 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Jon B. Pearlstone"
<THYE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Gerry Nicosia and others
Someone
please review the procedure for Digest Format--
I
deleted it in the marathon deleting sessions I have been enduring as the
estate
battle rages on--not that I'm against discussing it.....oops I mean,
not
that I'm for discussing it....hell, I am too confused to know what I mean
anymore.
Thanks
for your help
Jon
Pearlstone
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 07:17:55 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: 10/21/69 and memories of Jack
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
hey
there antoine, me friend! i read and
have already printed out a copy of
adrien's
fine and moving poem. bless yr heart to have us take a moment and
think
about jack and writing an, well, all the wonderful things this list is
for.
mc
Antoine
Maloney wrote:
> Hi
everyone,
>
> I had to put this alert out on the
list. If you've filcked your
>
finger too quickly in estate battle induced frenzy you may have missed the
>
poem belw that Adrien Begrand posted today. It's really fine and bears lots
> of
re-reading...do yourself a favor. This goes right in with my favorite
>
poetry posts of the past from John Mitchell ["Asshole"], Marie
Countryman
>
["pome 'bout poets"], Ron Whitehead, Patricia Elliot ["Shooting
with the men
>
1985"], and David Rhaesa...and Joe Grant's hoboing stories.
>
> Antoine
>
> *******************
>
> 10/21/69
>
>
two a.m.
>
desolate millsounds
>
thundering resounding machinery
> I think of Duluoz
>
>
under orion's belt
>
illuminated plume of steam
>
towering over the town
> I think of Duluoz
>
>
cool crisp October air
>
light snowfall
> my
own Desolation
> I think of Duluoz
>
>
100 miles of open highway going
> north
>
west east
> south
> I think of Duluoz
>
>
'Round Midnight
>
Ornithology
>
Salt Peanuts!
> I think of Duluoz
>
>
All Life Is Suffering
>
walking on water wasn't built in a day
>
you can't fall off a mountain!
> I think of Duluoz
>
>
Redbrick
>
Lowell
>
Shadowyvisions of Dr. Sax
> I think of Duluoz
>
>
Irwin on the subway
>
Bull in Louisiana
>
Dean naked in the doorway
> I think of Duluoz
>
>
Chicago-jazz & tea high
>
Denver-holy visions
>
San Francisco-boddhisatvas, midnight angels
> I think of Duluoz
>
>
Mexican fellaheen
>
Mexican tea
>
Mexican whores
> I think of Duluoz
>
>
Southern Pacific
>
Midnight Ghost
>
the St. Teresa Bum
> I think of Duluoz
>
>
Gallery Six
>
Wail
>
Go!
> I think of Duluoz
>
>
Desolation peak
>
Hozomeen looming
>
ennui & haikus
> I think of Duluoz
>
>
King of the beatniks
>
generation spokesperson
>
beaten
> I think of Duluoz
>
>
Big Sur
>
delerium
>
Sea
> I think of Duluoz
>
>
Lowell
>
Stella
>
Memere's apronstrings
> I think of Duluoz
>
>
has-been
>
drunk
>
lousy father & husband
> I think of Duluoz
>
>
2:30 a.m.
>
sounds of Monk &
>
sounds of the mill
> I think of Duluoz
> Paradise
> Smith
>
>
Kerouac
>
> Is
all well?
>
Will all be well?
>
>
Just keep guarding us,
> Jacky, m'boy
>
>
--Adrien Begrand
>
10/21/97
> Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
> "Blessed are they who can laugh at
themselves, for they shall never
>
cease to be amused."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 07:32:54 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: mr stauffer on mr gargan
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
....what
he said, in spades!
mc
James
Stauffer wrote:
>
Richard,
>
>
Bill Gargan is not the moderator. Bill
is the list owner. He has
>
done
> a
marvelous job with this list. He has
repeatedly requested that this
>
>
discussion cease for awhile. That
strikes many of us as a reasonable
>
request.
>
> If
you don't like Bill's list, start another.
You can invite Gerry
>
and
>
those who would like to flog this same horse day after day for years
>
could join. Estate-L would make a nice
tag line.
>
> j.
Stauffer
>
>
Richard Wallner wrote:
>
>
>
> It isnt the place of a list moderator to censor the list
>
> inappropriately. The estate
argument is a resonable topic here, as
>
long
>
> as discourse is handled civilly.
If Gargan is trying to force
>
Nicosia
>
> off the list, he should resign a list moderator!
>
>
>
> Lets have a vote:
>
>
>
> Should Nicosia leave the list or Gargan resignas moderator?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 07:38:14 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Gerry Nicosia and others
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
amen,
brother dave.
mc
> i
wish that we all didn't take ourselves so seriously.
>
>
sincerely,
>
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 08:27:40 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dana Lee Kober
<dana@SPIDERLINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Don't leave Gerry!
In-Reply-To: <199710220138.UAA04852@mail.execpc.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue,
21 Oct 1997, Jym Mooney wrote:
> I
also vote to keep the BEAT-L open to *everyone* with something relevant
Precisely
Jym....something *relevant*. Name-calling
is not relevant.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 08:38:53 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Christa St. Peter"
<astrid@NORSHORE.NET>
Subject: Re: The Kerouac Quarterly sample copies
available
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Please
send a sample copy of The Kerouac Quarterly.
Christa
St. Peter
1519
5th Avenue E
International
Falls, MN 56649
Thank
you!