Gavota
was around) try to break his grip--"You're choking that cat to
death!" I cry and try clawing Hal's face, pushing
his nose in, pulling
his
hair, everything, kicking, him in the balls so he'll leave that
kitty
go and he wont--now 'tis the other side of town but the same
Bowery
like darkness and after eating which takes me two hours and my
thoughts
are so vast while eating that when I wake up and realize my
mind'd
run thru two hundred dreay mind-weary Finnegangs Wakes, half
awake
goofball sleep--something to do with a waitress girl, burns--I
leave
and head back home to "First Avenue" tho geographically it's
Eleventh
Avenue West Side--and it's not that she doesnt love me,
business
and circumstance compel her to leave--(she loves me, she loves
me
not)--
DRIVING
IN TWO CADILLACS one a '52 one a '47 Limousine, with a gang of
friends--the
driver is Jim Calabrese-Mexican kid--we're going Lombard St
Frisco
and part Lowell, go down a very steep hill, stop all to get out
and buy
cigarettes--Lousy, Guy Green, lots of girls--Jim is smiling--We
went
over some canal--"COOL IT" I say to a gang of crazy boys I been
playin
on the rollercoasters with, as one starts shouting loudly about
the
marijuana exploits I taught them-"Ah hell, cool it yaself" is the
answer
from my disciples--We're in our shorts and T-shirts, I feel tired
or
trying to keep up with the consequences of the Beat Generation and
all
lubrigious in the dream--Wake up in Lowell Skidrow---
'T' is only the quite of the Sainte
Jeanne d'Arc Church on the
great
gray day of Nov.21 1954 that I saw: "The Beatific Generation"
AT THE
LONG ISLAND GRAYBEACH a big family reunion and event but instead
of
starting off on time I goof at basketball in the empty Y court,
removing
coat but not shirt and tie and I'll get all sweaty--I go across
the
litters, enter a store, a beautiful sexy brunette says turning to
her
father "See, all the men go for me"--this after I apprasied her with
appreciation
and said something--
I start to wake up and forget all about
her sex to speculate with
myself
and with them about these millions--(Railroad call, knock on
door)--
And at that very day I see for the first
time a brown ranch style
prefabricated
house being rolled out on wheels at San Mateo--right out
on the
road--and mention the dream to brakeman Neal McGee, who laughs
and
says, "Well that must have been a nightmare!"
And
that is the end of the Book of Dreams cut up.
I think it is
actually
speaking to the list, what do you think?
David, catch this
when
you get back dude.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 21:49:56 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's dedications
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 24 Oct 1997 21:34:32 -0400
from
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
On Fri,
24 Oct 1997 21:34:32 -0400 Paul A. Maher Jr. said:
>At
05:38 PM 10/24/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>At
08:39 PM 10/24/97 -0400, Paul Maher wrote:
>>
>>> I guess when Gerry has to take the turn at
the end of his letter it means
>>>nothing.
Whatever he dishes out he can expect thricefold. I can see through
>>>the
offal that is his presence. I can smell the wake of his passing like
>>>being
stuck behind a trash truck in rush hour.
>>
>>Wow!!!
>>
>>
>>This
actually makes me laugh it is quite over the top. Like a Monty Python
>>sketch.
>>Thanks
for being able to discenr the subtelties and nuances of my humor.
>Most
don't seem to possess a sense of humor on this list. they are
>so.....serious.
>I
think we should have a Gerry Nicosia Roast. I love him, he's a warm and
>loving
guy. I want to be his friend. I want to be his good friend. I wish he
>would
be my friend. I wonder if he'd sign my copy of Memory Babe? Paul of
>...you
know.
>"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
I wish we could all be friends or at least
friendly enemies. Now, let's bac
k to
talking about the lives and works of the Beat Generation.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 21:49:20 -0400
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Question to Maher
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Gerry
says that you posted:
"The
line, in his post of 10/22, was: "He [Mr. Sampas] has every
letter
from the MEMORY BABE collection that was penned by and to Jack
Kerouac."
If this
is true, will he be so kind as to provide to the library copies
of the
letters that were stolen from the library.
I am quite serious
about
this. If he as copies of the stolen
letters, he should be glad to
help
out the library and Kerouac scholars.
This is not a flame, but a
serious
request.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 22:26:38 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Nobody But Mr. Sampas
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At
06:13 PM 10/24/97 -0700, you wrote:
> Oct 24,1997
>Dear
Beat-L Readers,
> In all the brouhaha and flame wars of
the past few days, a line in
>one
of Mr. Maher's long posts may have slipped past you. It nearly slipped
>past
me.
> The line, in his post of 10/22, was:
"He [Mr. Sampas] has every
>letter
from the MEMORY BABE collection that was penned by and to Jack Kerouac."
> Now listen to that, will you?
> Do you know what that means?
> It means, while Mr. Sampas is going
over to the MEMORY BABE
>collection,
which I put at U Mass, Lowell, and WHILE HE IS TELLING THE
>LIBRARIAN
TO SHUT THE COLLECTION TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC, he is at the same
>time
demanding that the librarian let him copy all 2,000 Kerouac letters (in
>xerox)
that I put in that collection.
> In other words, Mr. Sampas wants the
right to all the information I
>have
in the MEMORY BABE collection, and he ALREADY HAS IT! But at the same
>time,
he would deny the same privilege, and the same information, to every
>one
of you.
> In my book, they used to call that
selfish. A case could also be
>made
for hypocritical.
> Nobody but Mr. Sampas is worthy of
reading those 2,000 Jack Kerouac
>letters,
evidently.
> That deeply troubles me.
> Respectfully, Gerald Nicosia
>except
those letters belong to the estate. Would i question the pooint of
you
demaniding a copy of your memory Babe manuscript? No...its yours. Well,
the
letters belong to the esate and they can get anything they want as long
as they
foot the xeroxing charges. Contestable? No. P.
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 22:42:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Question to Maher
Mime-Version:
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At
09:49 PM 10/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Gerry
says that you posted:
>
>"The
line, in his post of 10/22, was: "He [Mr. Sampas] has every
>letter
from the MEMORY BABE collection that was penned by and to Jack
>Kerouac."
>
>If
this is true, will he be so kind as to provide to the library copies
>of
the letters that were stolen from the library.
I am quite serious
>about
this. If he as copies of the stolen
letters, he should be glad to
>help
out the library and Kerouac scholars.
This is not a flame, but a
>serious
request.
>
>--
>
>Peace,
>
>Bentz
>bocelts@scsn.net
>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
>The
letters in question are copies of Jack Kerouac letters. Letters which,
by
virtue of their reproduction constitutes copyright infringement upon the
estate
so who were they stolen from? That is my question to you. P.
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 10:41:10 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: some of the dharma (was Re: Kerouac's
dedications)
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>
Alex Howard wrote:
> I'd like to get some more impressions
>
from people if anyone happens to have waded through it by now.
I
haven't waded through it yet; if fact, I just obtained it today. But I
am very
interested in hearing what those that have read it have learned.
And,
particularly, how does it differ from where he was in his thinking
when he
wrote Desolation Angels? One passage
that jumped out at me in
randomly
skimming is on page 319:
"Religion
must be considered for what it really is, an insight into
reality,
and not as a wishful dream of hope--As soon as it is pointed out
that
there is but one Essential Thatness to all multiplicities of created
things
in all the directions of the Universe, One Tathagata (not one
'God'
which is always misleading people away from the simple
understanding
of the Essential Thatness, that Honey, that Gold that
everything's
made of, that Formbliss Whichness), then people will stop
wishful
thinking and deluded human hoping and face the fact that there is
no
soul, no continuance of soul after life, indeed no life, no death, no
beings,
no creation, but only what appears in the mind itself."
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 22:47:30 -0400
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Drag Racin
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Drag
Racin
In 1970
in Georgia,
On 84
just beyond Boston,
(On the
way to Quitman),
There
was a strectch of highway,
Perfectly
straight,
Almost
one-half a mile;
But we
wanted only a quarter.
Past
midnight, past time we had
Climbed
out of windows,
Past
time we had hidden in bushes,
Til the
ride arrived,
We
arrived.
SS 396,
bored, stroked.
GTO,
Hurst speed shifter,
Black
with red interior.
Hoyt
would drind a Pabst in less than 3 seconds.
Someone
would shine light here
And one
quarter there.
No cops
out here by god.
(This
is close to dry lake,
if you
have ever been there.
It is
dry every winter,
Say it
is some kind of sink hole.
In the
summer you can ski,
But it
is so narrow,
That
you have to drop at each end.)
Anyway,
Russell
and Lacy had overprimed.
We were
listening to Canned Wheat,
She's
cum undun.
Scared
but not showing,
Like I
had done this before.
Yeah
right.
Not
going to let them know,
That I
am thinking, if the cops
DO show
up, I will cut across that
Dove
field, throught those woods
And run
to Kelly Hardin's house.
They
won't take me alive.
Bets
are placed,
The
twins flip to see who will drive.
Someone
has to drop the flag.
It
begins loud, rrrrrrrrrrrbblllltttttterrrrrrrr,
growing
RRRRRBBBLLLLERRRRRRRRR
Until
shaking, I want to run, but push chest out.
Then,
unleashed, like the holy fury.
ERRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIII,
screechhhhhhhhhhh,
Uuuuuunnnnnnhhhhnnnn, uuuuuhhhnn,
UUUUUUUNNNNNHHHHHHM,
chicckk,
clliiccckkkk, sparks,
Thummmmerrrrrrrr.............
Dead,
Sparks
flying,
Dead
SS396.
Get a
chain,
Tow him
back.
GTO
wins.
I lose
my money.
Fuck
this shit man.
It's
too late,
She's
cum.
It's
gone.
Cheap
chevy transmissions.
A
roadrunner can take going into reverse at 55,
This
damn Chevy stuff is just crap.
Nah,
they just put the best stuff in the Pontiacs.
Well, I
heard Lacy is going to get a Shelby Cobra.
Hey,
Hollis is going to shoot another beer man.
Do you
think we'll get caught when we sneak back in.
We'll
sleep all day tomorrow.
Drag
racin, Highway 84, 1970 style.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 20:00:34 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Paul Maher & the Future of
Kerouac Scholarship
Mime-Version:
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At
09:30 PM 10/24/97 -0400, Paul Maher wrote: I have
>published
two essays on Kerouac in scholarly journals, one is The
>Commonwealth
Review of Massachusetts and the other,The Journal of American
>Studies
(Literature). I have written and completed a first draft of a
>five-hundred
and seven page biography on Kerouac and Lowell, I have just
>finished
co-editing a textbook entitled,"Emerging American Values", I have
>written
four novels which I have yet to publish, two quarterlies, and
>fifty-eight
oil paintings and several uncounted drawings and assorted mixed
>media.
Oct 24, 1997
Paul,
I do not wish you ill in your
career. Quite the contrary, I wish
you the
very best.. But when you refer to me as
"if you were a scholar" it
is
bound to strike me the wrong way.
I have fought in the Beat/Kerouac
trenches for more than two
decades. When I began researching MEMORY BABE, over
20 years ago, you could
count
the no. of Kerouac/Beat courses around the country ON YOUR FINGERS.
There
was Jake Leed at Kent State, Chuck Jarvis in Lowell, Al Gelpi at
Stanford,
Jay McHale at Salem State College, John Tytell at Queens College,
and Joy
Walsh at SUNY Buffalo. At least half
the courses were by people who
had
known Kerouac personally. Nobody was
offering me research grants or any
other
kind of backing.
Ann Charters always had her tenured
position as a professor at U of
Connecticut
to fall back on, as she ventured from anthologizing short
stories
into Beat territory, but I had no such haven, no secure economic
berth. I lectured sporadically, wrote book reviews
and personality
profiles,
took on editorial work, even substitute taught to pay for my Beat
research. When MEMORY BABE was published, a lot of the
attacks on it were
focused
on the fact that I had rated Kerouac TOO HIGHLY, that I had dared to
compare
him with Proust, Joyce, Melville, and Balzac--which even as late as
1983
was considered to be virtual insanity among a lot of academics.
I have pushed recognition of Kerouac
and the Beats in every possible
way,
thru hundreds of lectures, articles, and reviews. I am deeply
gratified
to see that the recognition is finally starting to hit in a big
way.
And I am gratified that a younger generation of scholars and writers is
picking
up the torch. I do not expect to live
forever, and I am fully aware
of HOW
MUCH scholarship still needs to be done in this area. I want to see
people
like yourself filled with fire and enthusiasm to enlarge
understanding
of these writers' works, which have had such a powerful impact
in the
direction of humanizing and spiritualizing America. We need only
look at
the lack of concern for the homeless, or AIDS victims, or Vietnam
vets,
or those in prison, or the huge unemployed segments of our population
in
various ghettos, to realize America still has a long way to go in terms
of
becoming the humane, compassionate nation the Beats wanted it to be.
This is hardly a job for Gerald
Nicosia alone. As a matter of fact,
Gerald
Nicosia is getting pretty tired. Go to
it, guy.
I only wish you could see that my
long, hard fight to see that the
Kerouac
archive is placed and made accessible at a good library--as well as
my
fight to reopen the MEMORY BABE archive--is a fight FOR people like you,
a fight
to increase Kerouac and Beat scholarship, not to suppress it.
I hope you take this post as a peace
offering. It is intended as
one. And if you're still willing to send your
"detractors" a copy of
KEROUAC
QUARTERLY No. 2, please send me one.
I would prefer to be your supporter
than your detractor.
Respectfully, Gerald Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 21:59:14 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: memories
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Williams
curiosity and friends.
one day
on shooting hill
surrounded
by snow
we
unloaded snakes, by the pound,
the
box, the crate, wrapped across our shoulders.
the
gibbon viper, was a prehistoric monster
i can
vision him any time, i just close my eyes
thick
like a steel slug.
devils
horns, and power.
he was
too cold to move,
dull
and deadly.
then
the glass case.
five
sides, brass trim.
the
green mamba.
it was
never cold
as
alert as any living thing
i had
ever seen.
erect
like a pistol hard
curved
slim green ribbon.
it
followed you smoothly
as you
crossed the room
carrying
the bags of cobras
with
their babies.
Dean
said, if this one gets out
he will
wait up high,
when
you open the door
he'll
fly down,
your
dead in a minute.
i
tacked a note on the cabin door,
for the
fbi
attention,
deadly snakes
animal
hazard.
do not
enter,
contact
patricia
elliott.
heavy
kansas cold
a
living fence in case.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 22:20:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: memories
Comments:
To: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@scsn.net>
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it is
simply a memory of an hour i spent one
day. Knowing william was
good
for strong memories.
i am a
handy person.
a
friend of williams came to town
needed
a place to stay and store his stuff.
i
helped him unload. some one asked if i went so in case of an accident
i could
go for help. Dean said, oh no that is
not necessary there isn't
antivenom
for most of these guys. dean had caught them on his trip and
was
delivering them to places in the states.
i
enjoyed your poem on racing,
i am on
a diet of poems.
having
gagged on justice and what is right.
i have
gone to my boxes to sort
and
find thing after thing i want to post
but am
unsure about copyright infringement.
a lot
of my box is funny little books.
are
memories of days with william beat
or are
they just self conscious greivings.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 23:27:29 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: in memory of Beat-L archive 95,
blues of bob dylan and robert
creeley
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19971024224344.00778964@pop.gpnet.it>
MIME-Version:
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On Fri,
24 Oct 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
> GET BEAT-L LOG9505 BEAT-L
>
File "BEAT-L LOG9505" is not yet available.
>
> i
remain speechless --rinaldo rasa
speak,
i have a backup of all the files on cd-rom...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 23:41:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: return of the Barnes and Nobel
beatnik.
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.OSF.3.91.971024182207.30029B-100000@turbo.kean.edu>
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On Fri,
24 Oct 1997, PoOka(the friendly ghost) wrote:
> COMMERCIALISM ALERT: why hasn't
anyone printed a beat generation
>
calender, using some of Allen's photos? Or perhaps a small desk calender
>
with a quote from a beat source for each day?
who
"owns" the data? the words/photos? not just anyone could do this, i
would
think, without something as ugly as the e****e battle happening. great
idea
though.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 23:00:49 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: oh rinaldo
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one of
my first memories of beat-l is meeting rinaldo. he posted in
italian,
some
poor soul suggested that english would be the thing, and dear
rinaldo
said, you provincial pig. this is all
impolite paraphrase, it
was
done so civilly, but the exchange reminded me of william, gently
chiding
my prejudice. i found this on the memorial page
http://sunsite.unc.edu/mal/MO/wsb/index.html
and
thought it
would
be ok to post it here.
Ho vissuto un amore di parole per il
vecchio Zio Bill.
Adesso mi piace pensare che sia volato
in uno dei
suoi paradisi pieni di ragazzi
selvaggi,di foreste pluviali,
di azzurre visioni indotte dallo yage.
Tra fumi nitrosi e sole sui peli del
pube, penny arcade peep
shows,ragazzi con elmi cobalto e ali di
mercurio ai
sandali e agenti di altri pianeti.
Come lui ci ha insegnato, lasciandoci
ricchi e non orfani...
"NIENTE E' VERO, TUTTO E'
PERMESSO"
Requiescat in Pace
Ferdinando Padrelampreda
<lampreda@lycosemail.com>
Palermo, Italy - Wednesday,
October 22, 1997 at 05:28:30
(EDT)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 21:18:57 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Is the still a post limit?
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Whatever
happened to the 50 post a day limit on Beat-L from long ago?
If I am
away from my computer for an evening I'm buried. Maybe a
reimposition
of the limit would reduce posts about such important topics
as
whether B. Dalton's is keeping JK on the shelves, etc.
JS
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 00:18:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: bible code
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
hey,
anybody know much about _the bible code_, anybody read it or take a
good
look at it yet?
something
on my todo list has been to perform cutups on bible text. nothing
really
technical or farout there, but i thought it'd be entertaining to see
what
you'd get. plus i wanted to gauge outside reaction, if any, from
christers
to such a thing if it got put online.
then i
hear about the bible code book:
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0684810794/theultimateA/6650-9345000-9
63975>
some
israelis with "powerful computers" analyse the old testament and
discover
a code - something extremely goofy like every 5 words forms a
sentence
i think i heard - but anyway the premise of the book is that the
old
testament predicts the future! far out sci-fi ideas, huh? the way i see
it (and
like i said i haven't really looked), these guys are basically
fooling
with bible cutups... now look, they went and done that fooling with
structure
of meaning in holy bible, scrambling re-interpreting thoughts,
think
it predicts the _future_, armegeddon etc.
was a
premise of cut-ups that the text was alive?
email
stutz@dsl.org Copyright (c) 1997
Michael Stutz; this information is
<http://dsl.org/m/> free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL,
and as long
as this sentence remains;
it comes with absolutely NO
WARRANTY; for details see
<http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 00:39:31 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Nobody But Mr. Sampas
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.32.19971025022638.006a8870@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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>
>except those letters belong to the estate. Would i question the pooint of
>
you demaniding a copy of your memory Babe manuscript? No...its yours. Well,
>
the letters belong to the esate and they can get anything they want as long
> as
they foot the xeroxing charges. Contestable? No.
Okay,
okay, okay--let me explain this so that I'm sure I understand. The
letters
to which you are referring are the letters written by Kerouac to
various
people? Therefore those various people
own the actual physical
letters
themselves and Gerry's copies (or originals) were placed in the
archive. The estate, having ownership rights over the
words on the page
as they
were uttered by Kerouac, owns those letters in the Memory Babe
archive
as far as liscencing and publishing are concerned. Say, if
someone
wanted to publish the contents of the archive in book form, they
would
have to get the estate's permission to publish those letters written
by
Kerouac. The estate does not, however,
have ownership over the actual
physical
existing-as-a-paper-product letters.
The photocopies of those
actual
physical existing-as-a-paper-product letters are now property of U.
Mass-Lowell. Is this correct? Is this what you were meaning?
And as
the Kerouac estate has ownership over the words written by Kerouac
on
those photocopies of the original letters, that is the leverage that
they
can exert on U. Mass-Lowell.
Correct? Still, though, its the
physical
objects that people are wanting to look at.
This is the kind of
thing a
judge needs to rule on. If this is
correct, I think it is a
failing
of our copywrite and intellectual properties laws that lies at the
root of
this.
Moving
on to the other suggestion....
Does
the estate have copies of the stolen letters and such? So that, if
this
all were resolved, the missing material could be (hypothetically)
recovered?
My
understanding of what's going on here is particularly fuzzy, so please
correct
me if I am misunderstanding your meaning.
------------------
Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 21:49:39 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Nobody But Mr. Sampas
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
12:39 AM 10/25/97 -0400, Alex Howard wrote:
>And
as the Kerouac estate has ownership over the words written by Kerouac
>on
those photocopies of the original letters, that is the leverage that
>they
can exert on U. Mass-Lowell.
Correct? Still, though, its the
>physical
objects that people are wanting to look at.
This is the kind of
>thing
a judge needs to rule on. If this is
correct, I think it is a
>failing
of our copywrite and intellectual properties laws that lies at the
>root
of this.
Dear
Alex Howard: Oct 24, 1997
There is no failing of the copyright
law. Mr. Sampas DOES NOT HAVE
THE
LEGAL RIGHT TO KEEP YOU FROM READING KEROUAC LETTERS IN ANY FORM. I
have
checked this out with libraries and lawyers across the country. Sampas
simply
bluffed the U Mass, Lowell Library, and since he is a big fish in the
small
pond of Lowell, he got his way. I may
be forced to bring a breach of
contract
suit against the library for failing to make the collection
accessible,
as I stipulated, with the aim of freeing the archive to be
placed
in another library that does not live in mortal fear of Mr. Sampas's
political
sway.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 21:53:00 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Keith Medline
<mrsparty@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: A Small Request
Content-Type:
text/plain
Dear
BEAT-L subscribers,
Due to the large volume of messages (not
a bad thing) I would
request
that if you are sending something to me for my web site you
please
preface it with KM or end it with KM because that will make it
easier
for me to distinguish the new topic entries from peoples
contributions.
Thank you so much for all your support.
Keith
------------------------------------------------------------
Keith mrsparty@hotmail.com / I think of Dean Moriarty.
http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/rothko/31/index.html
------------------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 00:51:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: i'm beginning to hear voices..
MIME-Version:
1.0
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>
can you post specifics on Harry Smith's anthology?
For
info on this mind-boggling collection of American music, go to
http://www.si.edu/organiza/offices/folklife/folkways/harry/hatext.htm
This
anthology is so rich that I've been listening to it since August and
have
only gotten through the first four of six CD's.
Although
I am a Beat fan of many years' standing, I am definitely not a
jazz
fan...just an old folkie at heart...always have been, always will be.
No
apologies, no regrets.
Regards,
Jym
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 23:08:10 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Hey Good Lookin
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Darling,
Just
tried to call but your line is busy.
Hope I didn't knock you off
line,
and certain you guys had fun.
I'll be
concious til about 11:30 if you feel like a quick good night
with a
voice (mine). If I don't get you--have
the beautiful dreams you
deserve
(since the whole dream is you anyway.)
Big
long squeeze (smelling your skin, and soaking up pheremones)
that
lover of all humanity
James
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 23:14:34 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hey Good Lookin
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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>Darling,
>
>Just
tried to call but your line is busy.
Hope I didn't knock you off
>line,
and certain you guys had fun.
>
>I'll
be concious til about 11:30 if you feel like a quick good night
>with
a voice (mine). If I don't get
you--have the beautiful dreams you
>deserve
(since the whole dream is you anyway.)
>
>Big
long squeeze (smelling your skin, and soaking up pheremones)
>
>that
lover of all humanity
>
>James
How
nice james, but which one of us 200 or so is that "darling"?
Take it
easy, the fun of e-mail.
Listen
to hank sing it and smile.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 07:57:30 UT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: back to beat
Diane,
thank
you. how very beautiful and true those
words are. what a shame we have
to be
reminded so often....
DC
wrote:
Lamb,
No Lion, 1958
"...Beat
doesn't mean tired, or bushed, so much as it means 'beato,' the
Italian
for beatific: to be in a state of beatitude, like St. Francis,
trying
to to love all life, trying to be utterly sincere with everyone,
practicing
endurance, kindness, cultivating joy of heart.
How can this
be done
in our mad, modern world of multiplicities and millions? By
practicing
a little solitude, going off by yourself once in a while to
store
up that most precious of golds; the vibrations of sincerity...
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 04:32:06 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John J Dorfner
<Kirouack@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Who owns this list?
thank
you keith...but i'm already there. we
all are. we just don't know it.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 05:48:49 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
mayorly,
moraly,
merrily,
life
is
but
a
dream...
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 05:32:24 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: early saturday morning packing for the
Interstate thoughts...
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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some
nice stuff today's digest
patricia
as
always i love your memoirs
patricia
i often
ask questions cuz i haven't read the materials -- (there is SO
SO MUCH
TO READ!!!!) --
actually
in my days as an instructor in various colleges, one of the
most
difficult things was getting students to feel that it is OK to ask
questions,
even dumb or ignorant questions. a
curious and inquiring
mind is
an early need in the process of learning -- even at the college
level. so many wouldn't ask questions. a sadness.
oh
well. not necessarily related to the
specific situation and i must
say
that i kind of like the idea of asking a question or two that will
get
your wrath a boiling now and then (especially when such beautiful
memoirs
pop out later!!)
richard
- i never said to leave. i just thought
you were a hilarious
parody
of yourself. and i thought the image of
LEVI OVER-REACTING!!!
was
hilarious as well. i want to see the
movie of that.
i
wasn't going to head to wichita cuz my step-dad is in the hosptial but
i'm
going to shift gears and leave him to the doctors and head down to
see
Wichita and visit Pat O'Connor and the Wichita State Library (and
look
for some books so i can ask questions about them)....
feisty
this morning -- good for driving i think.
have a
fun saturday and sunday -- look forward to the digests when i
return.
and now
a commercial from our sponsor:
my
threads better than your thread
my
threads better than yours
my
thread better
cuz
it eats
keraouciomania
my
threads
better
than yours!!!
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
moving
south on 135 through McPherson
(just
the opposite direction of AG's Wichita Vortex route)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 06:50:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John J Dorfner
<Kirouack@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: beat is as beat does.
what...theft
is beat. not in my book. what a statement. is killing beat
also.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 06:54:31 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John J Dorfner
<Kirouack@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: beat is as beat does.
one
more thought. charity is beat. charity...from my big dictionary..."An
act of
feeling of benevolence, good will, or affection"
john j
dorfner
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 10:23:48 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Jared Prickett
MIME-Version:
1.0
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The
Hawks released Jared Prickett. What do
you bet we pick him up? UK
comes
to Beantown operation is underway. ;-)
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 07:31:38 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: The Return of the Elves
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Dear
Beal-L
The
damn elves struck again with my send key.
I
apologize for my mistake--but if a good laugh at my expense can help
erase
the bad feelings of Estate War II--well, so be it.
James
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 10:50:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Well, nothing like a little shared
mistake James
MIME-Version:
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Hey
James,
I must
have read your post about the time I was sending my Celtic post
to the
Beat list. Imagine my surprise when I
got the confirming
message. But, what does everyone think about Pitino
loading up the
Celtics
with former Kentucky players? (Never
let em see you sweat!)
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 14:57:31 UT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: early saturday morning packing for
the Interstate thoughts...
too
funny!!!!! have a great trip
ciao,
sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 10:35:09 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Another Poema
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and
thank you, sean. it's a beautiful piece.
peace.
mc
Sean
Young wrote:
> thought I'd send another poem at the end
of a long and spiteful week.
>
> peace be upon you all
>
> Sean D. Young
>
> ps (thanks Marie and Rinaldo for yr
poems.)
>
> Question: What's the most important
thing for a poet to remember?
> Answer: "Not to hurt anyone"
> - Gregory Corso @
Naropa workshop 7/94
>
------------------------------------------------------------------
> Poem:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> SUBLIMATION
>
> Teething in the wreckage
> in relation to - stranger music
> -- tough bars with you in them
> loosening my scarf -
> to a new meaning
> for new skin
> in the emperor's clothes
> from the bunker
> to the avenue's bosom
> just then - words -
> "This is true -
> you are not afraid"
>
> it is this close
> open palm
> on spinal shutters
> to the walk home - it is
> longer in solitude
> yet blissed
> late summer
> after storm
> the walk IS long
> the air of the lake
> sweet with brine and
> wet grass
> the voice is changing
> WE becomes I
> I becomes YOU
>
> it is this close
> the air is lifting
> the orange clouds
> the drums call from
> boyhood
> -when all there was
> -was music
> in the dawn
> and the twitch
> of feeling
> "I am Loved"
> (gone?)
>
> Until now
> here - the feeling
> is deep opening
> subtle and awake
> and the visage
> before me and
> the Laundromat
> on L street and 6th
> is grace -
> a humble caress -
> that man walking
> down the street
> desolate -
> is loved -
> does he know it?
> "Look up"
> I could say
> but I offer a sigh -
> We walk our own way
> to the castle
> and besides
> the real destination is within -
>
> between two people
> it is a mutual diving
> for the glistening stone
> inside
> a clear bell
> to silence
> the cacophony
>
> - no other voices here -
>
> it is the blood
> on the lips
> it is the body
> between the teeth
>
> it is the real work
> of the opening palm
> it is the kneeling
> it is the embrace
> it is the kiss
> it is the healing
>
> Leave the wreckage
> it is at rest
> with me
> here, now
> we dine at the splendid table
> this is
> the real story afterall
> off of the page
> through the senses
> from the teething
> to the walk home.
> ------------------------------------
> -------- Sean D. Young 7/17/96
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 11:00:30 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: memories
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patricia:
thank you for this, and for all your posts that have shown a
side of
wbs that few of us have been privileged to know. i love having
you
here with us
mc
Patricia
Elliott wrote:
>
Williams curiosity and friends.
>
>
one day on shooting hill
> surrounded
by snow
> we
unloaded snakes, by the pound,
>
the box, the crate, wrapped across our shoulders.
>
the gibbon viper, was a prehistoric monster
> i
can vision him any time, i just close my eyes
>
thick like a steel slug.
>
devils horns, and power.
> he
was too cold to move,
>
dull and deadly.
>
>
then the glass case.
>
five sides, brass trim.
>
the green mamba.
> it
was never cold
> as
alert as any living thing
> i
had ever seen.
>
erect like a pistol hard
>
curved slim green ribbon.
> it
followed you smoothly
> as
you crossed the room
>
carrying the bags of cobras
>
with their babies.
>
>
Dean said, if this one gets out
> he
will wait up high,
>
when you open the door
>
he'll fly down,
>
your dead in a minute.
>
> i
tacked a note on the cabin door,
>
for the fbi
>
attention, deadly snakes
>
animal hazard.
> do
not enter,
>
contact
>
patricia elliott.
>
heavy kansas cold
> a
living fence in case.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 11:02:23 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: memories
MIME-Version:
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patricia:
memories, pomes, grieving: share as much as you can here. i feel
your
presence behind the type screen of my computer. wish i lived closer.
mc
Patricia
Elliott wrote:
> it
is simply a memory of an hour i spent
one day. Knowing william was
>
good for strong memories.
> i
am a handy person.
> a
friend of williams came to town
>
needed a place to stay and store his stuff.
> i
helped him unload. some one asked if i went so in case of an accident
> i
could go for help. Dean said, oh no
that is not necessary there isn't
>
antivenom for most of these guys. dean had caught them on his trip and
>
was delivering them to places in the states.
>
> i
enjoyed your poem on racing,
> i
am on a diet of poems.
>
having gagged on justice and what is right.
> i
have gone to my boxes to sort
>
and find thing after thing i want to post
>
but am unsure about copyright infringement.
> a
lot of my box is funny little books.
>
>
are memories of days with william beat
> or
are they just self conscious greivings.
>
> p
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 11:04:53 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: oh rinaldo
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rinaldo:
i have
lost your address.
i am
inconsolable
please
send yr address to me
country@sover.net
i miss
you,
gentle
friend.
love
marie
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 11:15:50 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: totally nonbeat
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>
first of all, mike: thanks for the wail!!!!!
second
of all, i spent last night with a friend and her 12 year old
daughter,
who wanted to rent yellow submarine.so with lime jello in
hand,
we put
it on
lustily
singing ALL the lyrics and getting lost once in a while in the
more
subtle manifestations of altered states of consciousness.
anyone
in need of a shot of humor and good spirits.
might
consider this
or a
similar antidote to beat-l hell
go to
beatle heaven;
ha
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 11:37:47 -0400
Reply-To: Greg Elwell <elwellg@voicenet.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Greg Elwell
<elwellg@VOICENET.COM>
Subject: Re: HELP PLEASE!!!!!!
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It's
not always the student's fault thoguh.
I remember doing a "research"
paper
where I HAD to find other people's ideas, and then state my own idea,
but
support it with other's ideas. It's
like the student's ideas aren't
solid
enough to be backed up by the literature, you need "respectable"
people
to support everything you do. That's
the educational system.
Greg
Elwell
-----Original
Message-----
From:
Eric Craig Sapp <ecs4m@SERVER1.MAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date:
Friday, October 24, 1997 4:34 PM
Subject:
Re: HELP PLEASE!!!!!!
>hello
Beatlist!
>
>not
to disrepect anyone, but i think these kinds of things are a bit mean.
every
>
now and
>then
somebody will ask a basic question to the list, mention it is for
school,
>
and somebody
>else
will invariably tap out a respose to the effect of "listen, you lazy
ass,
> do
the work
>yourself!"
now of course students shouldnt rely on others for information,
but i
>
peronally
>do
not think the responses should be hostile. in many cases i imagine
students
>
might wanna
>use
this list as an educative resource, in addition to the stuff in books
they
>
want some
>"real
live" perspectives.
>
>whatever.
>Eric
S.
>On
Thu, 23 Oct 1997 16:41:46 -0500 Bob Lewis
><kokupokit@JUNO.COM>
wrote:
>
>>
running late on writing a paper? not enough time to read the book?
>>
i'll help.
>>
junky is a story of a college kid who started drinking too much, and
>>
started smoking pot. he would always forget to do his studying, because
>>
he was so busy getting drunk and high.
>>
all his friends would call him junky because he was too drunk to go to
>>
class.
>>
one day when he was sitting at his computer, the screen turned into a
>>
cockroach and started talking to him.
>>
it ends with him getting kicked out of school, becoming an exterminator,
>>
and getting hooked on the powder used to kill the insects.
>>
great book. if you ever get a chance, you should read it.
>>
hope i was a big help!
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 16:03:40 UT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: totally nonbeat
lol -
marie, a great idea. hope the blue
meanies didn't get ya.... but then,
"all you need is love"
sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 12:04:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Nobody But Mr. Sampas
In-Reply-To:
<199710250449.VAA24783@denmark.it.earthlink.net>
MIME-Version:
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On Fri,
24 Oct 1997, Gerald Nicosia wrote:
>
Dear Alex Howard: Oct 24, 1997
> There is no failing of the copyright
law. Mr. Sampas DOES NOT HAVE
>
THE LEGAL RIGHT TO KEEP YOU FROM READING KEROUAC LETTERS IN ANY FORM. I
But
what I said (my understanding of the issue) is at least the estate's
justification
for what's going on? I'd still like to
know if the estate
has
photocopies of the missing items (or maybe you do or someone does) so
that if
the items are not recovered, they still exist in some form that
they
could be replaced.
------------------
Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 09:29:20 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "V.J. Eaton"
<vj@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Re: 60's Counterculture
Mime-Version:
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>For
my class, Political Theory and 60's Counterculture, I have to do a paper
>on
an aspect of the sixties. I want to do
something on the Beat Generation,
>however,
it has to be more than a literary paper.
>Does
anyone know of any books that talk about the effect the Beat's had on
>60's
Counterculture??
>Any
feedback would be greatly appreciated.
>Thanks...
>
>jennifer
>
For any
who are interested (listed in no special order, some listed instead
of
others for no special reason), try:
--The
Politics of Ecstacy, Timothy Leary, 1990
--The
Making of a Counterculture, Theodore, Roszak, 1969
--The
Whole World Is Watching: A Young Man Looks at Youth's Dissent, Mark
Gerzon,
1969
--The
Radical Vision: Essays for the Seventies, Hamalian and Karl, eds, 1970
--How a
Satirical Editor Became a Yippie Conspirator in Ten Easy Years, Paul
Krassner,
1971
--The
Alternative Society: Essays from the Other World, Kenneth Rexroth, 1970
--What's
This Cat's Story, Seymour Krim, 1991
--The
Sense of the 60's, Quinn and Dolan, eds, 1968
--Coming
Apart: An Informal History of America in the 1960's, William
O'Neill,
1971
--If I
Had a Hammer: The Death of the Old Left . . . , Maurice Isserman, 1987
--1968
in America: Music, Politics, Chaos, Counterculture . . . , Charles
Kaiser,
1988
--Freak
Culture: Life Style and Politics, Daniel Foss, 1972
--The
Haight Ashbury: A History, Charles Perry, 1984
--Uncovering
the Sixties: The Life & Times of the Underground Press, Abe
Peck,
1985
--The
Sixties: Years of Hope, Days of Rage, Todd Gitlin, 1987
--Witnessing:
The Seventies, Sidney Bernard, 1977
Gitlin,
Peck, and Perry were probably the most fun, tho probably not the
most
relevant to your grade. Amost anything
by Kuntsler tho none listed
here
will give some nugget. Bruce Cook has already been mentioned. Many of
these
include bibliogs enuf to give you a hobby for years, or drive you into
a
dissertation.
Good
hunting.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 09:35:40 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher
<brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: late response
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I'm
reading the BEAT-L in digest mode these days (one
big
blast of sunshine every morning), so this response
is very
late. But just for the record, in
response to
Richard
Wallner's post -- I'm glad you're using a
reasonable
tone of voice now, Richard, and I'm sorry
if I
overreacted, and I hope you'll stick around this
list.
Now I
have two questions:
1)
Could we try to finish discussing "the dedication
controversy"
by next Thursday maybe?
2)
C'mon, Gerry and Phil and Paul and Bill and Marie
and
Richard and Leon -- how about we all meet somewhere
like
Lawrence Kansas (in the middle of the country) and
have a
big group hug, come on everybody what do you say?
------------------------------------------------------
| Levi
Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
|
|
|
| Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
|
| (the beat literature web site) |
|
|
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
|
|
|
*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---* |
|
|
| Mister, I ain't a boy, no I'm
a man |
------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 12:56:39 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: 60's Counterculture
MIME-Version:
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a most
interesting an panoramic list.
i would
add
storming
heaven: the history of lsd in america (woderful anecdotes of beats as
well as
cross over etc etc)
mc
V.J.
Eaton wrote:
>
>For my class, Political Theory and 60's Counterculture, I have to do a
paper
>
>on an aspect of the sixties. I want
to do something on the Beat Generation,
>
>however, it has to be more than a literary paper.
>
>Does anyone know of any books that talk about the effect the Beat's had on
>
>60's Counterculture??
>
>Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Thanks...
>
>
>
>jennifer
>
>
>
>
For any who are interested (listed in no special order, some listed instead
> of
others for no special reason), try:
>
>
--The Politics of Ecstacy, Timothy Leary, 1990
>
--The Making of a Counterculture, Theodore, Roszak, 1969
>
--The Whole World Is Watching: A Young Man Looks at Youth's Dissent, Mark
>
Gerzon, 1969
>
--The Radical Vision: Essays for the Seventies, Hamalian and Karl, eds, 1970
>
--How a Satirical Editor Became a Yippie Conspirator in Ten Easy Years, Paul
>
Krassner, 1971
>
--The Alternative Society: Essays from the Other World, Kenneth Rexroth, 1970
>
--What's This Cat's Story, Seymour Krim, 1991
>
--The Sense of the 60's, Quinn and Dolan, eds, 1968
>
--Coming Apart: An Informal History of America in the 1960's, William
>
O'Neill, 1971
>
--If I Had a Hammer: The Death of the Old Left . . . , Maurice Isserman, 1987
>
--1968 in America: Music, Politics, Chaos, Counterculture . . . , Charles
>
Kaiser, 1988
>
--Freak Culture: Life Style and Politics, Daniel Foss, 1972
>
--The Haight Ashbury: A History, Charles Perry, 1984
>
--Uncovering the Sixties: The Life & Times of the Underground Press, Abe
>
Peck, 1985
>
--The Sixties: Years of Hope, Days of Rage, Todd Gitlin, 1987
>
--Witnessing: The Seventies, Sidney Bernard, 1977
>
>
Gitlin, Peck, and Perry were probably the most fun, tho probably not the
>
most relevant to your grade. Amost
anything by Kuntsler tho none listed
>
here will give some nugget. Bruce Cook has already been mentioned. Many of
>
these include bibliogs enuf to give you a hobby for years, or drive you into
> a
dissertation.
>
> Good
hunting.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 16:55:05 UT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: 60's Counterculture
wow,
V.J. cool list... will check some ot these out myself. thanks!
ciao,
sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 10:07:39 -0700
Reply-To: Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: late response
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That
would be fun. Us and everybody else who was tagged in the cotroversy or
who
would just like to augment the circle with open arms hey we are all
needed
there
Love
and Peace, hip hip hurray, or whatever call speaks to your heart
leon
-----Original
Message-----
From:
Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date:
Saturday, October 25, 1997 9:37 AM
Subject:
late response
>I'm
reading the BEAT-L in digest mode these days (one
>big
blast of sunshine every morning), so this response
>is
very late. But just for the record, in
response to
>Richard
Wallner's post -- I'm glad you're using a
>reasonable
tone of voice now, Richard, and I'm sorry
>if
I overreacted, and I hope you'll stick around this
>list.
>
>Now
I have two questions:
>
>1)
Could we try to finish discussing "the dedication
>controversy"
by next Thursday maybe?
>
>2)
C'mon, Gerry and Phil and Paul and Bill and Marie
>and
Richard and Leon -- how about we all meet somewhere
>like
Lawrence Kansas (in the middle of the country) and
>have
a big group hug, come on everybody what do you say?
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>|
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com |
>|
|
>| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
>| (the beat literature web site) |
>|
|
>| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
>| (a real book, like on paper) |
>| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
>| |
>|
*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---* |
>|
|
>| Mister, I ain't a boy, no I'm
a man |
>------------------------------------------------------
>.-
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 13:06:53 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: late response
MIME-Version:
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sure
thing, levi, but only if the two beat midwest aangels are there to
work
their magic, david RACE and patricial sunflowet elliott.
mc
peace,
all.
i'm
done ranting.
mc
Levi
Asher wrote:
>
I'm reading the BEAT-L in digest mode these days (one
>
big blast of sunshine every morning), so this response
> is
very late. But just for the record, in
response to
>
Richard Wallner's post -- I'm glad you're using a
>
reasonable tone of voice now, Richard, and I'm sorry
> if
I overreacted, and I hope you'll stick around this
>
list.
>
>
Now I have two questions:
>
> 1)
Could we try to finish discussing "the dedication
>
controversy" by next Thursday maybe?
>
> 2)
C'mon, Gerry and Phil and Paul and Bill and Marie
>
and Richard and Leon -- how about we all meet somewhere
>
like Lawrence Kansas (in the middle of the country) and
>
have a big group hug, come on everybody what do you say?
>
>
------------------------------------------------------
> |
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com |
>
| |
>
| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
>
| (the beat literature web
site) |
>
| |
>
| "Coffeehouse: Writings
from the Web" |
>
| (a real book, like on
paper) |
>
| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
>
| |
>
| *---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*
|
>
| |
>
| Mister, I ain't a boy,
no I'm a man |
>
------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 13:16:10 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: relativity
MIME-Version:
1.0
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pumpkin
smashin' time came earlier than usual this weekend. what i found
most
notable, however, is that the human apparent destruction and loss
was far
overruled (at least in my neighborhood) to a celbration banquet
for the
squirrels. they are partying fools outside of my window as i
type.
so for
howl oween i plan to buy the squrirrels several pumpkins, cut
them up
and scatter safely in our garden.
what
this has to do with any list related stuff i have no idea. i'm on a
5 day
insomnia jag (as evidenced, i think, (ha!) in latest pome posted
on the
list.
but i
feel preternaturally cheerful today.
now,
what DO bats want?
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 13:02:00 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: beat is as beat does.
In-Reply-To:
<971025065429_1335799129@mrin45.mail.aol.com>
Mime-Version:
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>one
more thought. charity is beat. charity...from my big dictionary..."An
>act
of feeling of benevolence, good will, or affection"
>
>john
j dorfner
Faith,
Hope, and Charity. And the most important of these is Charity.
(Not in
those exact words...but you know.)
j grant
Small Press Authors and Publishers
display books
FREE
at
BookZen
http://www.bookzen.com
402,900 visitors - 07-01-96 to
07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 15:05:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's dedications
In a
message dated 97-10-24 19:29:56 EDT, Paul Maher wrote:
<< If you were a scholar you would have known
this. Instead, you act as a
negator of good intentions and a skeptic of
the same. >>
I have
to say "amen" to this. What a putdown of Ginsberg for Nicosia to
imply
that
Kerouac wouldn't have wanted "Some of the Dharma" dedicated to him.
Like
Ginsberg
had nothing to do with jack's career, wasn't his friend for life,
didn't
bear his coffin to the grave, didn't love jack, and didn't deserve it
when
jack said, "I love Allen Ginsberg--Let that be recorded in Heaven's
unchangeable
heart."
It's
flat-out ghoulish of Nicosia to sully the memory, attempt to pollute a
beautiful
friendship, just so he can say one more nasty and untrue thing.
I say,
let Allen Ginsberg and Jan Kerouac rest in peace, for god's sake.
They've
let go and moved on. Why don't you?
diane
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 14:34:26 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Donald G. Jr. Lee"
<donlee@COMP.UARK.EDU>
Subject: Re: Is the still a post limit?
Comments:
To: James Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
In-Reply-To: <34517331.198@pacbell.net>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I agree
with this, only because it's hard to keep up.
If I miss a day,
I'm
buried. Thanks.
Don Lee
"Once
I was young and had so much more orientation and could talk with
nervous
intelligence about everything and with clarity and without as much
literary
preambling as this; in other words this is the story of an
unself-confident
man, at the same time of an egomaniac, naturally,
facetious
won't do -- just to start at the beginning and let the
truth
seep out..."
--Jack Kerouac, Subterraneans
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 15:40:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Post limit
MIME-Version:
1.0
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I don't
know and I guess this adds to the traffic, but there are over
250
members on the mail list. Many are not
that active, yet that is a
goodly
number and if we are limited to 50 a day, I am not sure that is a
sufficient
number. I get many more posts from the
Celtic list and the
track
and field list. I left the Dylan mail
list and read it as a new
group
now because it had more than 150 posts a day many times. I like
the
beat list as it is, without the personal attacks though.
I
appreciate the recent comments by several that have been very
conciliatory. I hope the personal affronts will
cease. But other than
that,
it seems good to me. Let's keep it
headed on course.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 21:33:23 +0100
Reply-To: jean-ory@altranet.fr
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jean Ory <jean-ory@ALTRANET.FR>
Organization:
altranet
Subject: Re: sixties counterculture
MIME-Version:
1.0
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There
is a intersting book telling about what was happening backstage
during
the sixties:
Acid
dreams
The
CIA, LSD and the sixties rebellion
by
Martin A. Lee and Bruce Shlain
1985
Grove press
Cheers
Jean
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 16:21:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Update: John Tytell
Mime-Version:
1.0
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Small
news update on Professor John Tytell. Coming soon...all the reviews of
the
novels of Jack Kerouac in the New York Times. Go to:
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.html
Thanks, Paul. . .
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 16:07:39 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The unpublished Kerouac
In a
message dated 97-10-25 14:44:16 EDT, you write:
<<
ohn Sampas has
been in charge since 1992
Paul:
for the record, to keep history correct for the new book someone must
be writing
about the estate controversy -
he's
been in charge since 1991....
JW
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 16:35:12 -0400
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From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: estate stuff and blah blah
Hello
I am
glad for this public forum where everybody gets to hear what a person
says.
And respond to it as well. This way people become acountable for their
statements.
This doesn't mean that the truth is being stated. But it is a
process
where maybe the truth will come out.
Gerry
makes an assumption in his recent posting as to why Some of the Dharma
was
dedicated to Allen Ginsberg, Gerry
says: "John Sampas dedicated the
SELECTED
LETTERS to Phil Whalen, and SOME OF THE DHARMA to Allen Ginsberg,
presumably
because Ginsberg supported him in his fight against Jan Kerouac.
Best, Gerry Nicosia"
And it
isn't because Jack originally wrote it for Allen Ginsberg as a guide
to
understanding buddhism. (you know what happens when you assume)
Gerry
asks why do people rail against him when all he is is a practicing
christian?
Is it because he can't write a post without some sort of
unsupported
declaration against somebody? Is is because he makes accusations
and
personal attacks against people rather then answering the issue at hand?
I do
not feel like I have to always defend myself against false charges and
generalizations.
As far as being lumped into a particular camp,
I have had
dinner
with Gerry once, had a slice of pizza with Sampas once, and have met
with
Gerry and talked with him more times then I met with John Sampas.
?So am
I a Gerry stooge or Sampas Stooge?
?Or is
there a third stooge?
And I
also don't support anybody attacking Gerry on a personal level. I have
never
called him names or used derogatory terms when posting messages
regarding
the estate issue. I do wish that all parties would stick to the
issues
so that the this topic could be properly discussed, argued, fermented,
contested,
deliberated, pondered, considered, and reasoned.
And for
anybody's information, I am no longer a baker, I am now a caberet
dancer
and a goat herder. Oh yes, and wine taster (my favorite). And Gang of
Four is
my favorite band.
I don't
want Gerry to leave, I want to hear him say what he wants to say. And
Mr.
Waller, please don't leave, and Bill Gargan, please stay on his list
server.
And Dorothy, go home!
I just
wish people wouldn't get so upset just because the discourse gets
rude.
And it is within everyone's right to respond to rudeness and hopefully
steer
the conversation back to a better level
of communication.
And for
others who are tired of this thread, oh wait, you aren't reading this
anyway
since you have already used the delete button...
your
former donut boy,
Attila
PS - I
don't know if anybody else is interested in how Jan came to the
realization
that the will might be forged, but I know I am interested and
haven't
seen it answered yet.
PSS
- Read more books
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 16:52:24 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: estate stuff and blah blah
In a
message dated 97-10-25 16:36:57 EDT, you write:
<<
And for anybody's information, I am no longer a baker, I am now a caberet
dancer
>>
Hey,
that five bucks I slipped in your g-string? I wanted you to give me
change
for the bus!
Annoyedly
yours
diane
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 17:18:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: The unpublished Kerouac
Mime-Version:
1.0
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At
04:07 PM 10/25/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In
a message dated 97-10-25 14:44:16 EDT, you write:
>
><<
ohn Sampas has
>
been in charge since 1992
>
>Paul:
for the record, to keep history correct for the new book someone must
>be
writing about the estate controversy -
>he's
been in charge since 1991....
>JW
>Yes
you are right. Thank-you...Paul...
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 14:12:38 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's dedications
Mime-Version:
1.0
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Diane
De Rooy wrote: What a putdown of Ginsberg for Nicosia to imply
>that
Kerouac wouldn't have wanted "Some of the Dharma" dedicated to him.
Like
>Ginsberg
had nothing to do with jack's career, wasn't his friend for life,
>didn't
bear his coffin to the grave, didn't love jack, and didn't deserve it
>when
jack said, "I love Allen Ginsberg--Let that be recorded in Heaven's
>unchangeable
heart."
>
>It's
flat-out ghoulish of Nicosia to sully the memory, attempt to pollute a
>beautiful
friendship, just so he can say one more nasty and untrue thing.
>
>I
say, let Allen Ginsberg and Jan Kerouac rest in peace, for god's sake.
>They've
let go and moved on. Why don't you?
>
Diane, I'd say it's rather ghoulish of you to
invite me to die along with
Allen
and Jan.
First off, kiddo, I didn't say
anything "untrue." Jack DID
NOT
DEDICATE
SOME OF THE DHARMA TO ALLEN. John
Sampas did. And it aint' his
book to
dedicate--sorry.
I'm a writer too, and I don't want
anybody adding dedications to my
unpublished
manuscripts after I die--not even my wife or daughter.
If Jack had wanted to dedicate the
book to Allen, HE WOULD HAVE. FINIS.
It's just plain dumb of you to think
that if Mr. Sampas hadn't added
a
dedication to Ginsberg it would have been an insult to Allen (who was dead
by the
time the book was published anyway!).
Was it an insult to Carolyn
Cassady
that Sampas didn't add a dedication to her?
She's still alive. Was
it an
insult to Gary Snyder that he didn't get a dedication? He's still
alive
too. He TAUGHT KEROUAC about Buddhism,
whereas Ginsberg rejected it
till
after Jack was dead. We could go on
like this all night.
If you love Mr. Sampas and like the
way he is handling the Kerouac
archive,
then please say so straight out, instead of using this indirect
form of
attack on me.
And if you bothered reading my book,
you'd know that Jack was angry
and
fighting with Ginsberg the last five years of his life. He called
Ginsberg
"a hairy loss" and accused him of "inventing new reasons for
spitefulness"
along with Jerry Ruben and Abbie Hoffman.
He felt Allen had
become
a political clown and had sacrificed the tender lyricism of poems
like
HOWL and KADDISH, which Jack truly loved.
Why don't you be up front and just
tell people you're pissed at me
for not
turning my whole Jan Kerouac archive over to you?
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 17:20:58 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Letters and the law
As far
as I know, if Jack Kerouac wrote a letter to someone, the piece
of
paper belongs to the recipient. The
ideas, or the right to publish
the
letter, remain with the author or his estate.
Right?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 14:25:18 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: estate stuff and blah blah
Mime-Version:
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At
04:35 PM 10/25/97 -0400, Attila Gyenis wrote: I have had
>dinner
with Gerry once, had a slice of pizza with Sampas once, and have met
>with
Gerry and talked with him more times then I met with John Sampas....
>PS
- I don't know if anybody else is interested in how Jan came to the
>realization
that the will might be forged, but I know I am interested and
>haven't
seen it answered yet.
>
Attila, you had a Greek dinner with me, Dean
Contover, Brad Parker, and a
few
other folks when I spoke in Lowell in 1993.
That's the only time we
have
met, to my recollection. YOu certainly
never attended any of my other
speeches
or presentations in Lowell.
Excuse me, but I have a hard time
believing you have had no contact
with
Mr. Sampas except for a slice of pizza.
Last time around, you were
making
really weird, wrong assertions about jan kerouac, and I wondered
where
you were getting them. Then I found the
deposition the Sampas lawyers
had
taken of Jan Kerouac, and there were THOSE EXACT SAME ERRORS BEING
MOUTHED
by the Sampas lawyer Leticia Marques, and occasionally by Jan, whose
memory
was starting to slip a bit. You had to
have had access to Jan's
deposition,
which could only have been thru Sampas.
And that deposition
tells
how she discovered the forgery, just as the SAMPAS's deposition of me
tells
my side of the story. If you haven't
read my side yet, just go on
over to
Sampas's house and read it. I'm sure
he'd be more than happy to
show it
to you. And don't forget to ask him for
another Viking/Penguin ad
for
DHARMA BEAT, while you're at it.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 17:24:28 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Paul Maher & the Future of
Kerouac Scholarship
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 24 Oct 1997 20:00:34 -0700
from
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Gerry
and I started working on Kerouac about the same time. I want to
verify
his remarks that Kerouac certainly wasn't given serious
consideration
in academia in the early 1970s. I did
my master's essay
on
Kerouac at Columbia but when I asked about the possibilty of doing a
doctoral
dissertation on Kerouac at CUNY, I was advised against it. I
generally
credit Ann Charters' biography and Dardess's essay in*American
Literature*on
friendship and OTR as turning points in Kerouac's
reputation. From that point on, his stock began to rise
in academic
circles. Lots of others added to Kerouac's gradual
acceptence
including
Pete Jones, Gerry, Tim Hunt, Warren French, Regina Weinreich,
and
last, but certainly not least, Arthur & Kit Knight. There's still
lots of
work to be done, which why all this bickering upsets me. It can
only
detract from general interest in Kerouac.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 14:34:17 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Letters and the law
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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At
05:20 PM 10/25/97 EDT, Bill Gargan wrote:
>As
far as I know, if Jack Kerouac wrote a letter to someone, the piece
>of
paper belongs to the recipient. The
ideas, or the right to publish
>the
letter, remain with the author or his estate.
Right?
>
>
That's
correct, Bill. And xeroxes belong to
the person who made them. The
right
to read material in a scholarly institution belongs to everyone,
UNLESS
THE PERSON WHO PLACED THE DOCUMENTS THERE PUTS A RESTRICTION ON THEM.
The
right to read and receive information is protected by the First
Amendment
to the U.S. Constitution, which Mr. Sampas seems never to have
heard
of. He cannot, for example, tell you
you can't read ON THE ROAD
without
his permission.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 23:38:09 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: in memory of Beat-L archive 95
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.LNX.3.95.971024232522.21843E-100000@devel.nacs.net>
Mime-Version:
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At
23.27 24/10/97 -0400, Michael Stutz wrote:
>On
Fri, 24 Oct 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
>>
> GET BEAT-L LOG9505 BEAT-L
>>
File "BEAT-L LOG9505" is not yet available.
>>
>>
i remain speechless --rinaldo rasa
>
>speak,
i have a backup of all the files on cd-rom...
>
Michael,
thanks
to take care of Beat-L archive, i've checked the
database
retrieve command to obtain a backup of the 95archive
and
found that's gone for ever (but Bill has perhaps some
planning
to collecte the files off line), luckily some months
ago
hacking i've on my hard disk a copy of 95 archive, but
i'm
happy to hear that people has in mind to preserve the
history
of beat on the internet...
saluti
a tutti,
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 23:40:37 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: oh rinaldo
In-Reply-To: <199710251530.LAA23287@pike.sover.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
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At
11.04 25/10/97 +0000, marie wrote:
>rinaldo:
>i
have lost your address.
>i
am inconsolable
>please
send yr address to me
>country@sover.net
>i
miss you,
>gentle
friend.
>love
>marie
>
>
marie,
sister, poetess,
...Ah we were
blind animals back then
in
those dumb days
My dear Carmen'' --
Lawrence Ferlinghetti
un
abbraccio,
on the
internet:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
rasa@gpnet.it
on the
earth:
Rinaldo
Rasa
via
Morlaiter 2
30173
Venezia-Mestre
ITALIA
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 23:19:47 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: una poesia scritta in italiano da
Lawrence Ferlinghetti.
In-Reply-To: <199710201210.FAA22986@geocities.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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hola
Daniel,
in his
own book titled "These Are My Rivers" Lawrence Ferlighetti
gave on
respect to the italian poet Giuseppe Ungaretti (1888-1970)
choosen
as motto of the collected poemes written by LF
during
1955-1981:
Ho ripassato
le epoche della mia vita
Questi sono
i miei fiumi
[I have revisited
the ages
of my life
These are
my rivers...]
GIUSEPPE UNGARETTI
the
rivers are those in north-est Venetian Lands of Italy where
during
the WorldWarI the americans fighting to save
italy,
one of all Ernest Hemigway in his novel
"across
the river and into the trees" where the
river
is "fiume Tagliamento", today the river is still there
such as
at Hemingway time, there's the same green water, and the same
trees
by the river, i always think of EH when i cross the bridge...
Saludos
a todos,
Rinaldo
----------------
At
12.31 20/10/97 +0100, daniel wrote:
>----------
>>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
>>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Subject:una
poesia scritta in italiano da Lawrence Ferlinghetti.
>
>Ciao
RINALDO,
>
>I'm
going to write in english 'cause my written italian is pretty bad,
>
>well
I'd like to know if there are more of Ferlinghetti's poetry written
>directly
in italian? Could you post more? Is there a book?
>
>thanks,
>
>daniel
caridade
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 23:29:18 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: John Lennon in the Porto Santo Stefano
by Lawrence Ferlinghetti
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997102019511559@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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John Lennon in the Porto Santo Stefano
by Lawrence Ferlinghetti
A trattoria in the porto:
an astonishingly beautiful couple
enters
in shorts
He's got a fantastic torso
long hair and a golden headband
She's got long flaxen hair
German hippies maybe
Bourgeois back home
Another couple saunters in and joins
them
Dark hair and jeans
Comme ils sont beaux
Not one of them is gay
though he's the most beautiful
He's got such a smile
Some story he's telling
What could it be
Something about John Lennon
lost in a mix of Tuscan and German
Comme elle est belle
with her empty eyes
the Germans very spaced out
the Italians very "with it"
But none of them look very happy
Perhaps it's just youth
i am trying to think of a Lennon line
to sum up the situation
There isn't any
He didn't live enough to give us
the
mad eternal answer
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 17:52:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's dedications
In a
message dated 97-10-25 17:15:29 EDT, Gerry Nicosia wrote:
<< It's just plain dumb of you to think that
if Mr. Sampas hadn't added
a dedication to Ginsberg it would have been
an insult to Allen (who was dead
by the time the book was published
anyway!). >>
And in
a message dated 97-10-23, I had written to Beat-L saying:
<<
If you all will entertain a motion from the floor... <ahem> I'd like to
suggest
you just ignore the squeaky wheels and go on with your thoughts on
Beat-L.
[snipping
for brevity, so as to make my point:]
Takes
two to tango. My advice? Sit this one out. >>
I
apologize to Beat-L members for not taking my own advice. I have nothing
more to
say on this list about this subject.
diane
de rooy
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 15:49:42 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Look who's starting this thing up again
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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October 25,
1997
Mr.
Gargan and other Beat-L folk:
Last night I made an offering of peace
to Paul Maher. Not one of
the
Sampas camp has even acknowledged it.
Instead, I open my email today and
there are two fresh blasts
against
me, one from Attila Gyenis, and the other from Diane De Rooy, a
friend
of Rod Anstee's, who happens to be one of Mr. Sampas's best
customers. Mr. Anstee made his allegiance quite clear
in the last round.
Mr. Gyenis claims he "never
called Nicosia names or used derogatory
terms..." No, Mr. Gyenis's style is simply to post the
most outrageous lies
about
me as if they were naive fact.
Mr. Gyenis writes: "Gerry asks
why do people rail against him when
all he
is is a practicing Christian? Is it
because he can't write a post
without
some sort of unsupported declaration against somebody?"
My religion has nothing at all to do
with this fight. Mr. Sampas,
being
Greek Orthodox, presumably believes in the Christian God also. How
many
times have I mentioned being a Christian in the 200 posts I sent to the
Beat-List? Once?
Next lie: "Gerry asks why people
rail against him?" HARDLY!!! I
know
why Mr. Maher, Mr. Chaput, Mr. Hemenway, and Mr. Gyenis "rail"
against
me (in
their various fashions)--it is because they are all getting percs
from
Mr. Sampas.
There are no "unsupported
declarations" against anyone in my October
15
post, which started the latest round.
If there are, please point them
out to
me, Mr. Gyenis. I'll even reprint that
post for everyone to see at
the end
of this post.
I meant what I said to Mr. Maher last
night, that we should all be
working
together. Obviously, the other side doesn't
feel that way.
PLEASE TAKE A CAREFUL LOOK AT WHO'S
STARTING THIS THING UP AGAIN.
Respectfully, Gerald Nicosia
THE
POST THAT STARTED ALL THIS:
October
15, 1997
I am sure readers of the Beat-List
will be happy to know that I have
won yet
another legal victory yesterday in my efforts to carry on Jan
Kerouac's
legal battle to preserve and make accessible her father's entire
literary
archive.
John Sampas made yet another attempt
to get Jan's suit dismissed in
Florida,
and once again Mr. Sampas lost. Judge
Shames in the Sixth Circuit
Court
of Pinellas County ruled against Mr. Sampas's petition to have the
case
dismissed, stating that the court in Florida must await determination
by the
Santa Fe (New Mexico) appellate court as to my powers as Jan's
literary
executor before any such dismissal can be considered.
The determination in New Mexico will
take place within a few months.
I am
confident of victory there as well.
Recently Mr. Sampas placed a statement
on the worldwide web that it
is his
intention "to eventually make available all of the manuscripts and
archives
of Jack Kerouac to scholars." He
made the exact same statement,
thru
his lawyer George Tobia, in New York, at Jan Kerouac's press
conference,
THREE AND ONE HALF YEARS AGO. Once
again, I ask why, if Mr.
Sampas
is sincere in this declaration, he does nothing to act on it? And
why has
he forced Jan Kerouac, and now myself in my capacity as her literary
executor,
to fight him inch by inch in court, to compel him to place these
manuscripts,
papers, tapes, notebooks, etc., in a
library?
Why does he not cooperate with me in
getting Jack Kerouac's papers
into a
library now? I have stated over and
over again, over the past two
and one
half years, my willingness to work with Mr. Sampas to see that the
Kerouac
archive is permanently preserved in a scholarly institution and made
accessible
to all scholars. The placing of these
papers on deposit in a
library
does not need to await determination of whether Jan Kerouac and Paul
Blake
should receive any financial gain from the Jack Kerouac's Estate.
That is
a separate issue, and if money is paid by a library for these
papers,
it could be held in escrow until a court decides whether Blake and
Jan's
Estate should have a share of it.
If, as Jan's executor, I finally win
some control over Kerouac's
literary
legacy, it is my intention to make it AVAILABLE TO ALL, not the
property
of a small in-group who all adhere to a politically correct line.
I would
like to see a Kerouac committee in Lowell, for instance, that does
not
simply organize presentations that please Mr. Sampas. I feel it was a
disgrace
again, at Kerouac week this year, that not a single mention was
made of
Jan Kerouac's death, no form of tribute, either in photos, readings
of her
work, spoken memories of her, was given--DESPITE THE FACT THAT JAN'S
REMAINS
WERE BURIED IN NEARBY NASHUA, NEW HAMPSHIRE, ONLY FOUR MONTHS
BEFORE,
on June 5, 1997.
I also read in the paper that Mr.
Sampas has selected Douglas
Brinkley
to be the only person in the world to have access to Kerouac's
papers
and other archival materials, for the purpose of writing a "defintive
biography"
that will presumably please Mr. Sampas.
I say this is not right,
that
those papers and archival materials should be available to every
scholar
who wants to write about Jack Kerouac--not just someone who has said
the
right sort of flattering things to Mr. Sampas.
These are the reasons for my continued
legal fight, which is
difficult
on my family, my career, and everything else in my life. I am
aware
that Mr. Sampas's friends will continue to say, as they have said on
the
Beat-List in the past, that I am doing this for money, power, glory, and
greed,
etc.
I will keep you posted on further
developments.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 16:02:57 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Paul Maher & the Future of
Kerouac Scholarship
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
05:24 PM 10/25/97 EDT, you wrote:
>Gerry
and I started working on Kerouac about the same time. I want to
>verify
his remarks that Kerouac certainly wasn't given serious
>consideration
in academia in the early 1970s. I did
my master's essay
>on
Kerouac at Columbia but when I asked about the possibilty of doing a
>doctoral
dissertation on Kerouac at CUNY, I was advised against it. I
>generally
credit Ann Charters' biography and Dardess's essay in*American
>Literature*on
friendship and OTR as turning points in Kerouac's
>reputation. From that point on, his stock began to rise
in academic
>circles. Lots of others added to Kerouac's gradual
acceptence
>including
Pete Jones, Gerry, Tim Hunt, Warren French, Regina Weinreich,
>and
last, but certainly not least, Arthur & Kit Knight. There's still
>lots
of work to be done, which why all this bickering upsets me. It can
>only
detract from general interest in Kerouac.
>
Dear
Bill & Beat-L folk:
I can only speak for myself. I do not enjoy this fight. The reason
I
continue it is because Kerouac scholarship is being HUGELY HINDERED by the
censorship
and lack of access Mr. Sampas has instituted as "business as
usual"
in Kerouac studies.
Anyone who wants to attempt any kind
of real analysis of Kerouac's
texts
or his development as a writer has to go to Mr. Sampas. Mr. Sampas is
the
gatekeeper. And he has completely
denied access to many people. If you
want
any kind of access, you have to say the right things to him. You have
to say
you will write nice things about his family and never, ever mention
the
fact that Jack Kerouac was divorcing Stella Sampas or that he wrote Paul
Blake
he wanted to be rid of the Sampases forever.
And if you happen to be
a
friend of Gerry Nicosia's, or if you express admiration for MEMORY BABE,
forget
it! You'll never in a million years get
access.
And HERE'S THE REAL CATCH: so, okay,
you've said the right things,
and Mr.
Sampas has agreed to show you a few things in his "private stock."
But he
WILL ONLY SHOW YOU WHAT HE WANTS TO SHOW YOU, AND HE WILL NOT SHOW
YOU THE
THINGS HE FEELS YOU SHOULDN'T SEE.
Can any self-respecting scholar tell
me that this situation is
conducive
to good scholarship?
My point, Bill, is that folks like
us--the pioneers--have done all
we can
to move things forward. Nothing much is
going to move any further
until
the Kerouac archive is made available for general study.
I would have thought that was an
obvious statement. I certainly did
not
expect to be targeted for massive character assassination--and now even
having
my religion attacked!--because of it.
Maybe it's time to ask the other side
why THEY'RE fighting so hard.
Respectfully, Gerald Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 19:26:35 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Look who's starting this thing up
again
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
03:49 PM 10/25/97 -0700, you wrote:
> October 25,
1997
>Mr.
Gargan and other Beat-L folk:
> Last night I made an offering of peace
to Paul Maher. Not one of
>the
Sampas camp has even acknowledged it.
>
dear
Mr. Nicosia, I will make an acknowledgement. After you have slandered
my name
and used my good intentions to perpetuate your constant aversion to
the
truth, I cast aside your olive branch...its hoary stem is full of
thorns.
My muse is greater than my conscience and I listen to it for it is
the
ineffable one in my self and in my life. In all good faith, Paul. . .
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 16:48:11 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Kerouac t-shirts almost gone
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Oct 25, 1997
Well I've almost got my cupboard emptied
of Kerouac t-shirts. If a
few
more of you order, we will have a nice bin of storage space again, and
my wife
will be very happy. She'd be even
happier if I could toss out my
drawers
full of legal files. So would I,
actually.
So how about helping our storage
problem? A few more XL and L black
"Kerouac
and Kerouac: The Legacy" t's available, with photo of Jack Kerouac
next to
photo of daughter Jan. Lettering in red. On back in yellow,
facsimile
signature: "Thanks to you all-- Jan Kerouac" -- $20 each
Remember, t's are not being held
unless you CONFIRMED that you were
ordering.
Please email me directly:
GNicosia@earthlink.net
Thanks, everyone, for your support,
kind comments, and so forth.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 17:05:40 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Look who's starting this thing up
again
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>Mr.
Gargan and other Beat-L folk:
>> Last night I made an offering of peace
to Paul Maher. Not one of
>>the
Sampas camp has even acknowledged it.
>>
>dear
Mr. Nicosia, I will make an acknowledgement. After you have slandered
>my
name and used my good intentions to perpetuate your constant aversion to
>the
truth, I cast aside your olive branch...its hoary stem is full of
>thorns.
My muse is greater than my conscience and I listen to it for it is
>the
ineffable one in my self and in my life. In all good faith, Paul. . .
Say,
tell me, is this the Beat-List or Alice's Wonderland? Last nite there
was a
post from Mr. Maher asking "Can we be friends?" So I sent him a
SINCERE
message of friendship. (I still mean
it, by the way.) So this is
what I
get back?
Are these folks playing with a full
deck?
--Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 20:05:03 +0000
Reply-To: randyr@southeast.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is
<randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>
From: randy royal
<randyr@MAILHUB.JAXNET.COM>
Subject: Re: What Happened??????
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-type:
text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding:
7BIT
> Did I get lost in the late night
suffle? Haven't recieved a posting
>
for 3 days.Is it something I said or did? Or is it one of those nasty
>
computer gods doing their tricks on us?
>
my how
i envy you! the computer gods were sparing you from squabbles,
count
yourself in good fortune. if you really want to see what
happened
check out the archive (it's not worth the trouble)
going
thru 100+ messages,
randy
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 20:33:57 +0000
Reply-To: randyr@southeast.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is
<randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>
From: randy royal <randyr@MAILHUB.JAXNET.COM>
Subject: Re: bible code
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-type:
text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding:
7BIT
there
was an article in the wall street journal a year or so ago. i
no
longer have it; it appeared before i met the beats. does anyone
have a
copy?
randy
>
hey, anybody know much about _the bible code_, anybody read it or take a
>
good look at it yet?
>
>
something on my todo list has been to perform cutups on bible text. nothing
>
really technical or farout there, but i thought it'd be entertaining to see
>
what you'd get. plus i wanted to gauge outside reaction, if any, from
>
christers to such a thing if it got put online.
>
>
then i hear about the bible code book:
>
>
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0684810794/theultimateA/6650-9345000-
9
> 63975>
>
>
some israelis with "powerful computers" analyse the old testament and
>
discover a code - something extremely goofy like every 5 words forms a
>
sentence i think i heard - but anyway the premise of the book is that the
>
old testament predicts the future! far out sci-fi ideas, huh? the way i see
> it
(and like i said i haven't really looked), these guys are basically
>
fooling with bible cutups... now look, they went and done that fooling with
>
structure of meaning in holy bible, scrambling re-interpreting thoughts,
>
think it predicts the _future_, armegeddon etc.
>
>
was a premise of cut-ups that the text was alive?
>
>
>
email stutz@dsl.org Copyright (c) 1997
Michael Stutz; this information is
>
<http://dsl.org/m/> free and may
be reproduced under GNU GPL, and as long
> as this sentence
remains; it comes with absolutely NO
> WARRANTY; for details
see <http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 21:42:57 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: a Barnes and Nobel employee speaks
out.
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Years
ago Abbie Hoffman published Steal This Book.
I never
heard
whether a lot of people did. Now I'm
hearing that
followers
of the beat generation are notorious
book thieves in
some
areas. What does that say about the
Beat ethic? Do
any of
you bookstore employees on this list know of other
books
and genres that are eminently stealable?
I can't believe
that in
the whole wide world of books, only Beat Generation
topics
inspire theft. The reason I'm
interested in this
topic
is those people taking those books are US!
Mike
Rice
At
09:46 AM 10/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In
a message dated 97-10-24 09:37:20 EDT, brian writes:
>
><<
>
this may be true in new jersey, but my best friend works at a b dalton in
>
omaha and they keep all copies of OTR locked up in the safe because every
>
copy that went onto the shelves was stolen.
>>
>
>In
Seattle, at one of the three B&Ns I've frequented, they have nothing on
>the
shelves for Kerouac, Burroughs, Bukowski, and a few others. They claim
>they
can't keep them from being stolen. They won't even keep them behind the
>counter,
which pisses me off.
>
>At
the other two stores, however, their shelves are lined with Kerouac titles
>and
third-party books about jack.
>
>I
can't understand what the deal is with people stealing these titles, but it
>does
seem to be an epidemic. Anyone know anyone who's stolen anything by
>jack,
WSB or Bukowski? I'd like to ask them why they do it.
>
>Hardly
seems Beat to me.
>
>diane
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 21:43:04 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: The I in Howl (was [Fwd: Rejected
posting to BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CU
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
02:15 AM 10/12/97 -0400, you wrote:
>On
Sun, 12 Oct 1997, Arthur Nusbaum wrote:
>
>>
It's interesting to note that 3 of the most important works in the Beat canon
>>
begin with "I":
>
I find
this interesting, also. These three
were self-obsessed,
an idea
that had gone out of style during the depression. The
dull
mindset of the fifties was a social thing.
You had to stand
up for
yourself to break it. But hasn't the
self-obsession gone
too far
now?
Mike
Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 22:16:45 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: let's be friends
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
it's
what we all want, idn't it?
we love
arguing
i dont
like name calling, although i did some
of that now didn't i out
loud in
public for all the world to see.
any
way,
love is
all we need
la de
da
playful
but
from the heart.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 22:23:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Hacking the Bible
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Someone
brought up Hacking the Bible and the "code" discovery that
predicts
the future. I love these urban
myths. I am posting a portion
of the
Hot Flash from Hot Wired that discusses some activity at their
site on
that subject. I think it includes a
url.
Cross
post below.
bject:
HotFlash 4.46 - Hacking the Bible
Date:
24 Oct 1997 20:45:04 -0000
From:
HotFlash
<hotflash-info@hotwired.com>
HotFlash
<hotflash-announce@hotwired.com>
HotFlash
4.46 for the week of 26 October 1997
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=
Hello
and welcome to HotFlash, HotWired's weekly newsletter of events
and
information.
Hacking
the Bible
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Synapse:
Think the Web
On
Wednesday, join host John McChesney for a hot, hot, Hotseat. Michael
Drosnin,
author of "The Bible Code" says Israeli mathematicians using
powerful
computers have found an ancient code encrypted in the Old
Testament
that predicts the future. Australian mathematician Brendan
McKay
says it's a sham. "Anyone can program a computer to make
coincidences
appear to be meaningful," he says. Tune in as they face
off.
And
Friday, research scientist and Synapse newbie Bruce Krulwich
analyzes
ecommerce's key flaw: thinking what works in the US will also
work in
Trinidad, Uzbekistan, or Namibia.
http://www.hotwired.com/synapse/hf/
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 22:27:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: This may be the one
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
If this
post doesn't bounce, I will shut up, but this is a really cool
article
on quantum mechanics and parallel universes at the Hot Wired
site. The url is
http://www.hotwired.com/synapse/hf/
Then
click on the link. It is cool.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 22:51:47 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Beat-L T-shirts
We
still have a few Beat-L T-shirts left in stock..
sizes
XL and XXL...
For
those of you new to the Beat-L - these shirts have an original Beat-L
illustration
by S. Clay Wilson, San Francisco comic artist.
The
price per shirt is $18 (free shipping for Beat-L members)...
Thanks
-
Jeffrey
Water
Row Books
PS: To
see the shirt's design, check out www.waterrowbooks.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 23:35:35 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "THE ZET'S GOOD."
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac t-shirts almost gone
Nita,
The
library is soooooooo QUIET tonight (saturday). Call us up and make noise.
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 23:51:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jonathan Pickle
<jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>
Subject: Re: a Barnes and Nobel employee speaks
out.
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I don't
know, but I bet Catcher in the Rye is also taken a good deal. Also
something
like Vonnegut.
Jon
At
09:42 PM 10/25/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Years
ago Abbie Hoffman published Steal This Book.
I never
>heard
whether a lot of people did. Now I'm
hearing that
>followers
of the beat generation are notorious
book thieves in
>some
areas. What does that say about the
Beat ethic? Do
>any
of you bookstore employees on this list know of other
>books
and genres that are eminently stealable?
I can't believe
>that
in the whole wide world of books, only Beat Generation
>topics
inspire theft. The reason I'm
interested in this
>topic
is those people taking those books are US!
>
>Mike
Rice
>
>
>At
09:46 AM 10/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>In
a message dated 97-10-24 09:37:20 EDT, brian writes:
>>
>><<
>>
this may be true in new jersey, but my best friend works at a b dalton in
>>
omaha and they keep all copies of OTR locked up in the safe because every
>>
copy that went onto the shelves was stolen.
>>
>>
>>In
Seattle, at one of the three B&Ns I've frequented, they have nothing on
>>the
shelves for Kerouac, Burroughs, Bukowski, and a few others. They claim
>>they
can't keep them from being stolen. They won't even keep them behind the
>>counter,
which pisses me off.
>>
>>At
the other two stores, however, their shelves are lined with Kerouac
titles
>>and
third-party books about jack.
>>
>>I
can't understand what the deal is with people stealing these titles,
but it
>>does
seem to be an epidemic. Anyone know anyone who's stolen anything by
>>jack,
WSB or Bukowski? I'd like to ask them why they do it.
>>
>>Hardly
seems Beat to me.
>>
>>diane
>>
>>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 23:55:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: three little mice from rice
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
I have
been reading all my 9000 or so saved post and deleting some.
gosh
here
are some quotes from mike rice in random order, a little cut up a
little
bruised
But get it for the
>performance
on the Steve Allen Show and his drunken appearance on
>William
Buckley's program.
>
>Eric
Macy
>
>If
anyone wants more info, just write and I'll post it
>
>
So who
pays for them. Just make a copy, if you
are so
hot for
it.
Mike
Rice
Why
would anyone buy a film at $69.95 or any price over $20, when you
can
simply rent it and make your own copy at home, macrovision or no
macrovision. I keep hearing letters that complain about
the cost of
these
cassettes but its nothing to make a copy so what does it matter
what it
costs except to a video store owner?
Mike
Rice
Years
ago Abbie Hoffman published Steal This Book.
I never
heard
whether a lot of people did. Now I'm
hearing that
followers
of the beat generation are notorious
book thieves in
some
areas. What does that say about the
Beat ethic? Do
any of
you bookstore employees on this list know of other
books
and genres that are eminently stealable?
I can't believe
that in
the whole wide world of books, only Beat Generation
topics
inspire theft. The reason I'm
interested in this
topic
is those people taking those books are US!
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 23:03:14 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Keith Medline <mrsparty@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: What do you think??
Content-Type:
text/plain
I wrote
this today after a L O N G heated discussion of America(not
Ginsberg's
Work, but the country) I am thinking of
reading this at a
local
poetry open mic night. Tell me where
the revisions need to be
made or
just any comment would be appreciated.
Even "Keith, stick to
Web
design..." Please do not post this
anywhere else.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
What a
Country
Keith
Medlin
10/25/97
What a
Place this
Red
White &
Blue.
My
country 'tis of thee?
Screw you!
Where
are your pockets for children on welfare?
Where
are your eyes violence sells?
Where
are your hands?
Tied
In And
Checks Balances?
No,
they aren't there
They
are covering Lady Liberty's mouth
As she screams
Look,
Look at the injustice?
Listen;
Listen to your people cry.
They
wail for you America
An
awful cry of:
Poverty
Injustice
Inequality
And
Death
How can
bloody hands walk from a courtroom?
How can
I choose when to die?
Who is
to say what I can say?
Where
is this land of opportunity?
It must
be where the upper class are.
I hope
it makes them feel comfortable.
I hope
that when they spill their milk,
And
throw away their bread, they chuckle
And say
"poor
people in China..."
To hell
with China, Look at your doorstep.
You can
hear people thousands of miles away
But who
the hell hears the cries of Americans?
It must
be our great government, that living constitution
Ruling
this land with swift efficiency...
Taking
care of minority rights
Fighting
Communism
Too bad
we can't fight communists we seemed to like it so much
We
could focus on others problems not ourselves
The Red
Star Of Russia, gone, all but fizzled now
It
casts rather an eerie glow on the problems this country faces
Or better turns its back to
Oh say
that star spangled banner; I think it was ripped in
this land of the bound, and the home of the
cowards
What a
Country, What a Country...
------------------------------------------------------------
Keith mrsparty@hotmail.com / I think of Dean Moriarty.
http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/rothko/31/index.html
------------------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 01:37:04 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: What do you think??
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Keith
Medline wrote:
>
> I
wrote this today after a L O N G heated discussion of America(not
>
Ginsberg's Work, but the country) I am
thinking of reading this at a
>
local poetry open mic night. Tell me
where the revisions need to be
>
made or just any comment would be appreciated.
Even "Keith, stick to
>
Web design..." Please do not post
this anywhere else.
I
played with your poem, please don't
take offense, i tried to let the
words
that spoke to me loudest play out. I
read it aloud. I found it a
moving
strong poem as you wrote it but felt you were trying to tell me
something
rather than just saying it. so i played
with it.I think you
should
try playing with it. but it is quite worthy of reading as it
stood.
patricia
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
What a Country
>
Keith Medlin
>
10/25/97
>
>
> Red
> White &
> Blue.
> Screw you!
>
Where are your pockets for children on welfare?
>
>
Where are your hands?
> Tied
> In
And
> Checks Balances?
>
No, they aren't there
>
They are covering Lady Liberty's mouth
> As she screams
>
> An
awful cry of:
>
Poverty
>
> And
>
Death
>
can bloody hands walk from a courtroom?
> can I choose when to die?
> to
say what I can say?
> this land of opportunity?
>
where the upper class are.
> I
hope it makes them comfortable.
>
they spill their milk,
>
And throw their bread,
And say
>
"poor people in China..."
> To
hell with China,
>
You can hear people thousands of miles away
>
But who the hell hears the cries of Americans?
>
that living constitution
>
land with swift efficiency...
>
Taking care of minority rights
>
>
Too bad we can't fight communists
> We
could focus on others problems
>
The Red Star Of Russia, gone fizzled now
>
casts rather an eerie glow on the problems this country faces
> Or turns its back to
> Oh
say that star spangled banner ripped in
>
this land of the bound, and the home of the cowards
>
What a Country, What a Country...
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
>
Keith mrsparty@hotmail.com / I think of Dean Moriarty.
>
http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/rothko/31/index.html
>
------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
______________________________________________________
>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 13:57:15 +1100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: David Kerr <kerr@THEPLA.NET>
Subject: Re: a Barnes and Nobel employee speaks
out.
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I would
have said theft of the beats goes against the beat philosophy.
Theft
of petrol , theft of food , theft of stuff like that is =
understandable
because they need that gear to get
around and survive. =
The
other thing is that=20
In a
sense , the theft of OTR etc is theft of knowledge. Theft of =
knowledge
cannot , in any way be seen as beat.
Charity
is , of course , beat.
-----Original
Message-----
From: Adrien Begrand
[SMTP:vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca]
Sent: Saturday, 25 October 1997 5:37
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: a Barnes and Nobel employee speaks
out.
Diane
De Rooy wrote:
>
>
> In
Seattle, at one of the three B&Ns I've frequented, they have =
nothing
on
>
the shelves for Kerouac, Burroughs, Bukowski, and a few others. They =
claim
>
they can't keep them from being stolen. They won't even keep them =
behind
the
>
counter, which pisses me off.
>
Same
goes for Vancouver, it's gotten realy bad in recent years. Nearly
all
bookstores, except Chapters (B & N knockoff), have Bukowski,
Kerouac,
Burroughs, Hunter S. Thompson, and sometimes Ginsberg either
behind
or next to the counter. I talked to an owner of one place and was
told
Bukowski and Kerouac thefts are increasing all the time. That's
really
strange...in all my obsessing with Kerouac, Buk, WSB, & HST I
never
once even considered the remote possibility of swiping one of
their
books. It's sort of fascinating, the fact that there's such a
trend
everywhere.
Adrien
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 02:32:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Rod Macy <rodmacy@IQUEST.NET>
Subject: Leavng the list
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You
know, I agree with Richard Wallner.
There is a clique mentality on
this
list and if you're not a part of it, you're screwed. Every time
I've
posted here I've been dissed and cut down.
I'm not just another
ignorant
college student bumbling my way through a paper. Yeah, I gotta
write a
paper on Kerouac and Burroughs, but I came here far before I
knew I'd
ever write about those guys. I fell in
love with the
literature
and the lives of those behind it. It's
tough to find Beat
references
and literature outside of pedestrian criticism and
lightweight
works on the Beats as a collective. I
thought this list
would
be a repository of great ideas and I could offer some
interpretations
of Beat works that would drum up some new angles I'd
never
considered. But after my first couple
of posts I realized -
"flame
on!" - I was dead here. I stuck
around, hoping it would get a
little
better, then the estate battle broke out and I realized tensions
would
never ease. The camps were divided and
God forbid you fell
anywhere
between them. Then I found one of my
posts quoted with Mike
Rice's
"funny" dis of my post included for good humiliatory pleasure.
That's
the last straw for me. I'm the butt of
jokes and ridicule every
single
day at my university - I'm ostracized and criticized at every
turn. Everyone either hates me, is afriad of me or
thinks I am an ass.
I don't
need that popping up in my mailbox at home too. See ya later
and
thanx for everything. Maybe I'll be
back one day . . .
Eric
"Moose" Macy
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 11:03:57 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: side effects
In-Reply-To: <199710251530.LAA23287@pike.sover.net>
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Gabriele D'Annunzio -
Enrico Caruso
Jacques Prevert - Yves Montand
William Burroughs - U2
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 13:14:26 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Emmet Grogan.
In-Reply-To: <199710251530.LAA23287@pike.sover.net>
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"E.
Church" (brcs@U.WASHINGTON.EDU) says:
Who is Mr. E. Grogan? Grogan was one of the founders of the
Diggers,
a group that scrounged and provided food and services on
the
Lower East Side in the sixties to the influx of hippies and
other
kids who arrived in the city barefoot and entranced. Abbie
Hoffman
was another. These tireless fellows
were hearty souls who
busted
their asses to keep the "counter culture" dreaming and eating;
the
folks behind the curtains. Now, with
tie-dye revisionism, with
People
Magazine's Jerry issue, with all the groovy graphics on MTV
and the
Net, it's a nice zen reality check to remember the sixties
were
not all peace love but contained some busted glass, bad dope,
mean
cops, and hungry runaways.
Grogan wrote a bunch of this up in his bio,
"Ringolevio," and Abbie
wrote a
bunch, too, like "Steal this Book" and many others. A good dose
of
railroad medicine and Texas gin, and a little less Brady Bunch might
help
explain what really happened to the new generation. Then again,
re-inventing
the wheel has it merits.
Estacado66@aol.com
writes:
>Right-winged
anarchism goes too far (IMHO) when it suggest the
>
privatization of all (such as for instance, oxygen supply in an O'Neill
>
cylinder), and left anarchism is wong when it contests the property of
>
personal goods (for instance, Emmet Grogan, leader of the
>
anarcho-socialists Diggers, telling Allen Ginsberg he was an ugly
>
capitalist, only because he wanted to retire in a house with a garden!).
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 08:02:43 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Shirer <shirer@CYBERRAMP.NET>
Subject: Re: The Kerouac Quarterly sample copies
available
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Please
send a sample copy of The Kerouac Quarterly.
Bill Shirer
2316 Loving
Dallas, Texas 75214
Thank you!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 09:43:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: a Barnes and Nobel employee speaks
out.
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At
01:57 PM 10/26/97 +1100, David Kerr wrote:
>I
would have said theft of the beats goes against the
>beat
philosophy.
Hmm,
the "beats" never stole books, did they?! {;^>
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 23:07:12 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: The I in Howl (was [Fwd: Rejected
posting to BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CU
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>
Mike Rice wrote:
> I
find this interesting, also. These
three were self-obsessed,
> an
idea that had gone out of style during the depression. The
>
dull mindset of the fifties was a social thing. You had to stand
> up
for yourself to break it. But hasn't
the self-obsession gone
>
too far now?
Can you
point out a couple ways in which you think this self-obsession
has
gone to far? Are you saying that
literature has gotten too personal
and
we're due for a swing back to the anti-personal? The style of
Hemingway
as opposed to Kerouac perhaps. That we
no long need the "I" of
Ginsberg? Literature does in fact move
"toward" and then "away from"
certain
themes depending on the times. However,
I think what many might
call
the self-absorption of the beats broke open a path for literature
that
will never be reversed. And that is
essentially because the I
speaks
for everyone's human-ness. Are you
saying that the "confessional"
quality
of American literature has gone too far?
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 23:19:29 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Paul Maher & the Future of Kerouac
Scholarship
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>
Bill Gargan wrote:
>
>
Gerry and I started working on Kerouac about the same time. I want to
>
verify his remarks that Kerouac certainly wasn't given serious
>
consideration in academia in the early 1970s.
I did my master's essay
> on
Kerouac at Columbia but when I asked about the possibilty of doing a
>
doctoral dissertation on Kerouac at CUNY, I was advised against it. I
>
generally credit Ann Charters' biography and Dardess's essay
>
in*American
>
Literature*on friendship and OTR as turning points in Kerouac's
>
reputation.
Bill,
What
was your master's thesis on Kerouac about?
I discovered Ginsberg
when I
was in college in the 70s, but the same professor that introduced
me to
him in a twentieth century poetry class would have seen any further
scholarly
interest in the beats as a waste of time on a minor literary
movement
and also as "unintellectual."
DC
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 23:32:45 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: some of the dharma
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We have
here in many of the journal-entry-type entries, once again the
same
spiritual search that reveals a tired and sad man, always seeking,
but
never really finding what he is searching for.
pg 103
"YET
TODAY AUG.24 '54 is the lowest point in my Buddhist Faith since I
began
last December--Reason: *Loneliness of Westerner practicing
Eightfold
Path alone, without occasional company of Buddhist monks and
laymen. You've got to talk--even Buddha talked all
day. Here I am in
America
sitting alone with legs crossed as the world rages to burn itself
up--What
to do? Buddhism has killed all my feelings, I have no feelings,
no
inclination to go anywhere, yet I stay here in this house a sitting
duck
for the police who want me for penury & non-support, listless,
bored,
world-weary at 32, no longer interested in love, tired,
unutterably
sad as the Chinese autumn-man. It's the
silence of unspoken
dispair,
the sound of drying, that gets me down..."
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 08:40:36 -0800
Reply-To: Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: What do you think??
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When
you start with "screw you" Iam thinking maybe you are telling the
hypocritical
rhetoric to fuck off. O.K. You are then
pointing out
shortcomings
here. But they are even worse most everywhere else on the
planet
today. Then you end with telling me that this is the home of the
cowards.
I think we have here as much courage and bravery as anywhere else
on the
planet today. I get the feeling of
outrage that spilled out and
throws
mudballs at targets that don't deserve it.
I don't
want this land to be screwed and I believe we have in our land as
much
bravery and courage as anywhere else on this planet.
If you
replaced what a country with what a world, i could get behind it with
enthusiasm,
but when you direct your anger at this country, I have to say
whoa,
hold it, we are doing as well as almost anybody anywhere
leon
-----Original
Message-----
From:
Keith Medline <mrsparty@HOTMAIL.COM>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date:
Saturday, October 25, 1997 11:04 PM
Subject:
What do you think??
>I
wrote this today after a L O N G heated discussion of America(not
>Ginsberg's
Work, but the country) I am thinking of
reading this at a
>local
poetry open mic night. Tell me where
the revisions need to be
>made
or just any comment would be appreciated.
Even "Keith, stick to
>Web
design..." Please do not post this
anywhere else.
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>What
a Country
>Keith
Medlin
>10/25/97
>
>What
a Place this
> Red
> White &
> Blue.
>My
country 'tis of thee?
> Screw you!
>Where
are your pockets for children on welfare?
>Where
are your eyes violence sells?
>Where
are your hands?
> Tied
> In And
> Checks Balances?
>No,
they aren't there
>They
are covering Lady Liberty's mouth
> As she screams
>Look,
Look at the injustice?
>Listen;
Listen to your people cry.
>They
wail for you America
>An
awful cry of:
>Poverty
>Injustice
>Inequality
> And
>Death
>How
can bloody hands walk from a courtroom?
>How
can I choose when to die?
>Who
is to say what I can say?
>Where
is this land of opportunity?
>It
must be where the upper class are.
>I
hope it makes them feel comfortable.
>I
hope that when they spill their milk,
>And
throw away their bread, they chuckle
>And
say
>"poor
people in China..."
>To
hell with China, Look at your doorstep.
>You
can hear people thousands of miles away
>But
who the hell hears the cries of Americans?
>It
must be our great government, that living constitution
>Ruling
this land with swift efficiency...
>Taking
care of minority rights
>Fighting
Communism
>Too
bad we can't fight communists we seemed to like it so much
>We
could focus on others problems not ourselves
>The
Red Star Of Russia, gone, all but fizzled now
>It
casts rather an eerie glow on the problems this country faces
> Or better turns its back to
>Oh
say that star spangled banner; I think it was ripped in
> this land of the bound, and the home of the
cowards
>What
a Country, What a Country...
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>Keith mrsparty@hotmail.com / I think of Dean Moriarty.
>http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/rothko/31/index.html
>------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>.-
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 12:41:56 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: stealing home
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Mike
Rice wrote:
>
Years ago Abbie Hoffman published Steal This Book. I never
>
heard whether a lot of people did.
>
>
_______
i stole
it and i used it. used it to live on the streets as a teenager in the
wild
lost years of the yippee sixties.only book i ever stole, as it was offered.
beat
books
beat
article
and all
psychedelic research books have been plundered from boston to nyc.
ripped
out of bound journals.
i
bleed.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 11:57:20 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: three little mice from rice
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>Do
any of you bookstore employees on this list know of other
>books
and genres that are eminently stealable?
I can't believe
>that
in the whole wide world of books, only Beat Generation
>topics
inspire theft. The reason I'm
interested in this
>topic
is those people taking those books are US!
not a bookstore employee, but worked in a
library for three years
and can tell you that book theft has a trend;
certain subjects and
authors
inspire theft a lot more than others.
off the top of my head,
our
martial arts section was reduced to one book, we didn't stock
Lawrence
Durrell's books because they'd all gotten stolen back when we
did. all we had for beat were a handful of
Burroughs stuff. no
Kerouac!
a sin if i ever saw one. No Ginsberg
either. for some reason
i
remember a handful of D.H. Lawrence books dissapearing. Stephen King
was a
hot theft item.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 13:32:04 -0500
Reply-To: Greg Elwell <elwellg@voicenet.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Greg Elwell
<elwellg@VOICENET.COM>
Subject: Re: three little mice from rice
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-----Original
Message-----
From:
Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date:
Sunday, October 26, 1997 1:12 PM
Subject:
Re: three little mice from rice
>all
we had for beat were a handful of Burroughs stuff. no
>Kerouac!
a sin if i ever saw one. No Ginsberg
either.
That
seems odd. Most people find Burroughs
to be more offensive than
Kerouac
or Ginsberg(at least in my experience).
I know where I go to
school,
they have Kerouac and Ginsberg, but NO Burroughs. When I asked the
librarian,
she didn't even know who he was!
Also, my county library stocks only
Kerouac, no Ginsberg or Burroughs.
But,
they do have the movie "Naked Lunch" available. Funny, eh?
ge
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 13:37:54 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: some of the dharma
In-Reply-To: <3452E40D.4ABE@together.net>
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This, I
found, was one of the more interesting passages for the Kerouac
historian. The inablity of making Buddhism work within
a Western urban
civilization. There are little bits like this throughout
the book and it
forshadows
the end of Book One of Desolation Angels.
While he was sitting
up on
Desolation Peak or in the middle of the woods in Rocky Mount,
Buddhism
was great, but he just couldn't stick to it or reconcile it in
the
urban environment. At the end of Book
One of Desolation Angels, he
basically
says this Buddhism stuff and sitting on a mountain writing
poetry
is great but I want a hot bath, a good meal, and a good fuck. Then
he
rushes down the mountain to get it.
On Sat,
25 Oct 1997, Diane Carter wrote:
>
"YET TODAY AUG.24 '54 is the lowest point in my Buddhist Faith since I
>
began last December--Reason: *Loneliness of Westerner practicing
>
Eightfold Path alone, without occasional company of Buddhist monks and
>
laymen. You've got to talk--even Buddha
talked all day. Here I am in
>
America sitting alone with legs crossed as the world rages to burn itself
>
up--What to do? Buddhism has killed all my feelings, I have no feelings,
> no
inclination to go anywhere, yet I stay here in this house a sitting
>
duck for the police who want me for penury & non-support, listless,
>
bored, world-weary at 32, no longer interested in love, tired,
>
unutterably sad as the Chinese autumn-man.
It's the silence of unspoken
>
dispair, the sound of drying, that gets me down..."
> DC
>
------------------
Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 12:09:04 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "V.J. Eaton"
<vj@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Kerouac's "Other Daughter" Revisited
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--First,
The Obligatory Hedge:
I was
crashed-drive out of touch for awhile, and getting back on channel I
do
admit to selective clicking (the surliness in the divided BEAT-L camps
can be
avoided--just delete the flipping things).
So this might be asking
for old
newspapers.
_____________
After
the publication of Steve Turner's book, Angelheaded Hipster, we were
bantering
about Turner writing that Mary Carney had Ks daughter.
Last I
recall of the topic was that the Viking eds had asked Turner to tone
down
the claim, and that someone (in England) was soon off either to
interview
Turner or to attend a reading, or something, and wld get back to
the
group.
How'd
this thread end up?
_____________________
My
opinions and those of my employer arer usually different,
for
which my mother apologizes.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 12:33:56 -0800
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: What do you think??
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Leon,
Thanks
for putting it so well. By no means a
perfect country, ours, but
show me
many doing any better. Still a
patriotic old hippy in the
tradition
of JK, AG, and Snyder. . .
J.
Stauffer
Leon
Tabory wrote:
> I
don't want this land to be screwed and I believe we have in our land as
>
much bravery and courage as anywhere else on this planet.
>
> If
you replaced what a country with what a world, i could get behind it with
>
enthusiasm, but when you direct your anger at this country, I have to say
>
whoa, hold it, we are doing as well as almost anybody anywhere
>
leon
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 12:37:36 -0800
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: some of the dharma
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Reminds
me of life after a couple of weeks camping way way back in Idaho
planting
trees and the joy of the return to civilized comfort--first
good
meal, good shower, good fuck. Loved
that about "Desolation"
J.
Stauffer
Alex
Howard wrote:
At the end of Book One of Desolation Angels,
he
>
basically says this Buddhism stuff and sitting on a mountain writing
>
poetry is great but I want a hot bath, a good meal, and a good fuck. Then
> he
rushes down the mountain to get it.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 12:45:27 -0800
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: John Lennon in the Porto Santo
Stefano by Lawrence
Ferlinghetti
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Rinaldo,
Thanks
so much for posting this. I must
confess to being one who has
been
somewhat underwhelmed by LF, this was wonderful
J.
Stauffer
Rinaldo
Rasa wrote:
>
> John Lennon in the Porto Santo
Stefano by Lawrence Ferlinghetti
>
> A trattoria in the porto:
> an astonishingly beautiful couple
enters
> in shorts
> He's got a fantastic torso
> long hair and a golden headband
> She's got long flaxen hair
> German hippies maybe
> Bourgeois back home
> Another couple saunters in and joins
them
> Dark hair and jeans
> Comme ils sont beaux
> Not one of them is gay
> though he's the most beautiful
> He's got such a smile
> Some story he's telling
> What could it be
> Something about John Lennon
> lost in a mix of Tuscan and German
> Comme elle est belle
> with her empty eyes
> the Germans very spaced out
> the Italians very "with it"
> But none of them look very happy
> Perhaps it's just youth
> i am trying to think of a Lennon line
> to sum up the situation
> There isn't any
> He didn't live enough to give us
> the
mad eternal answer
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 16:17:54 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Eric Craig Sapp
<ecs4m@SERVER1.MAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU>
Subject: Re: a Barnes and Nobel employee speaks
out.
MIME-Version:
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stealing
a book is theft of knowledge?
i
personally have never stolen a beat book, but i did swipe a copy of
Catcher
in the rye from my high school i.e. never returned it, and was
plotting
to steal one of the many unused Cummings books, but never did. i
agree
that it is completely uncool to steal from say a Library, because
the
"knowledge" should be available to all, etc. i would never have had a
problem
with the idea of stealing from a bookstore, until this issue was
raised
on the list. literature is universally owned, it pisses me off
that we
have to pay money to get books, of course rewarding the authors
is
great but for middlemen publishers and storeowners to profit (pardon
me,
anyone on this list offended by this) is less desirable. but when it
comes
to the de-shelving of these books, then the problem is hurting
other
consumers of knowledge, making it harder for someone to browse and
,
importantly, to engage in the greatest of bookstore activities -- being
able to
sit in one of them B and N chairs listen to the classical music
and
read a whole book for free!
by the
way, doesnt Corso mention something about the sinful urge to swipe
a
Shelley manuscript in one poem. (obviously not condoning literate
theft,
but a relevent theme)
from,
Eric
ecs4m@virginia.edu
On Sun,
26 Oct 1997 13:57:15 +1100 David Kerr <kerr@THEPLA.NET> wrote:
> I
would have said theft of the beats goes against the beat philosophy.
>
>
Theft of petrol , theft of food , theft of stuff like that is understandable
because
they need that gear to get around and survive. The other thing is that
>
> In
a sense , the theft of OTR etc is theft of knowledge. Theft of knowledge
cannot , in any way be seen as beat.
>
>
Charity is , of course , beat.
>
>
-----Original Message-----
>
From: Adrien Begrand
[SMTP:vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca]
>
Sent: Saturday, 25 October 1997 5:37
>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
Subject: Re: a Barnes and Nobel
employee speaks out.
>
>
Diane De Rooy wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> In Seattle, at one of the three B&Ns I've frequented, they have
nothing on
>
> the shelves for Kerouac, Burroughs, Bukowski, and a few others. They claim
>
> they can't keep them from being stolen. They won't even keep them behind
the
>
> counter, which pisses me off.
>
>
>
>
Same goes for Vancouver, it's gotten realy bad in recent years. Nearly
>
all bookstores, except Chapters (B & N knockoff), have Bukowski,
>
Kerouac, Burroughs, Hunter S. Thompson, and sometimes Ginsberg either
>
behind or next to the counter. I talked to an owner of one place and was
>
told Bukowski and Kerouac thefts are increasing all the time. That's
>
really strange...in all my obsessing with Kerouac, Buk, WSB, & HST I
>
never once even considered the remote possibility of swiping one of
>
their books. It's sort of fascinating, the fact that there's such a
>
trend everywhere.
>
>
Adrien
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 16:24:09 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The I in Howl, cont'd: Identity & conformity
Comments:
cc: DAVIDSROSEN@compuserve.com
Mike:
You
wrote: "I find this interesting,
also. These three were self-obsessed,
an idea
that had gone out of style during the depression. The dull mindset
of the
fifties was a social thing. You had to
stand up for yourself to break
it. But hasn't the self-obsession gone too far
now?"
Indeed,
the Beats re-affirmed individual identity at a time when it was
beleaguered
by the pressures of a super-conformist society. Americans
hunkered
down and marched off to war, subordinating individuality to the
urgent
task at hand. Then, the situation was
perfect to steer the returning
soldiers
into a regimented, corporate culture, to produce and consume the
boom
that had been jump-started by the war economy.
But parallel with the
economic
outburst after a pent-up period of deprivation caused by the
depression
& WW2, was a cultural, emotional & mental suppression. The Beats
found
themselves in this situation and had the wherewithal & talent to get
the
ball rolling on the subversion of the conformists' paradise.
Now, 50
years after they started this process, it may be too far in the
opposite
direction, with the celebration of individuality curdling into
self-centeredness
& -indulgence. A conservative
backlash has been building
up, to
re-instate "traditional family values" (conformity) and contain the
countercultural
explosion that has become the mainstream culture. Back &
forth
we go. This cycle of phenomenons &
reactions to them is good to an
extent,
the extremes of either direction bounce back & forth from each other
toward
the balanced middle, ideally. There is
never a total turning back, no
getting
the cat completely back in the bag. I
myself believe that a
functioning
society can flourish without everyone ultimately losing their
identities. In my own life I am combining the
fulfillment of parental & work
responsibilities
with the pursuit of BeatFreakism & other causes-interests, &
cross-polinating
these endeavors without coming to cross-purposes.
Regards,
Arthur
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 16:37:18 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: memories
Patricia:
You
wrote: "are memories of days with
william beat or are they just self
conscious
grievings."
Your
reminiscences are as Beatific as it gets, extractions of poetry from
experience. There's also nothing wrong with working out
grief, your posts
have
greatly helped me come to terms with & assimilate mine. Keep sending as
many as
you're inspired to create, as far as I'm concerned.
Regards,
Arthur
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 15:38:46 -0600
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Irving Leif
<ileif@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Kerouac In Translation
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My
research has found that Kerouac has been translated into the languages
listed
below. If you know of any others,
please let me know.
Bulgarian
Catalan
Czech
Danish
Dutch
Finnish
French
French
Canadian
German
Greek
Hungarian
Italian
Japanese
Norwegian
Polish
Portuguese
Russian
Serbian
Serbo-Croatian
Spanish
Swedish
Ukranian
I have
found NO evidence that he was ever translated into Hindi as Charters
suggests.
Irving
Leif
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 18:40:54 +0000
Reply-To: randyr@southeast.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is
<randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>
From: randy royal <randyr@MAILHUB.JAXNET.COM>
Subject: Re: a Barnes and Nobel employee speaks
out.
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i once
took some potboilers from a condo i spent the week so i could
trade
them in at my used bookstore for some literature, which i now
recognize
as being bad.
randy
>
stealing a book is theft of knowledge?
>
> i
personally have never stolen a beat book, but i did swipe a copy of
>
Catcher in the rye from my high school i.e. never returned it, and was
>
plotting to steal one of the many unused Cummings books, but never did. i
>
agree that it is completely uncool to steal from say a Library, because
>
the "knowledge" should be available to all, etc. i would never have
had a
>
problem with the idea of stealing from a bookstore, until this issue was
>
raised on the list. literature is universally owned, it pisses me off
>
that we have to pay money to get books, of course rewarding the authors
> is
great but for middlemen publishers and storeowners to profit (pardon
>
me, anyone on this list offended by this) is less desirable. but when it
>
comes to the de-shelving of these books, then the problem is hurting
>
other consumers of knowledge, making it harder for someone to browse and
> ,
importantly, to engage in the greatest of bookstore activities -- being
>
able to sit in one of them B and N chairs listen to the classical music
>
and read a whole book for free!
>
> by
the way, doesnt Corso mention something about the sinful urge to swipe
> a
Shelley manuscript in one poem. (obviously not condoning literate
>
theft, but a relevent theme)
>
>
from,
>
Eric
>
ecs4m@virginia.edu
> On
Sun, 26 Oct 1997 13:57:15 +1100 David Kerr <kerr@THEPLA.NET> wrote:
>
>
> I would have said theft of the beats goes against the beat philosophy.
>
>
>
> Theft of petrol , theft of food , theft of stuff like that is
understandable
> because
they need that gear to get around and survive. The other thing is
that
>
>
>
> In a sense , the theft of OTR etc is theft of knowledge. Theft of
knowledge
> cannot , in any way be seen as beat.
>
>
>
> Charity is , of course , beat.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Adrien Begrand
[SMTP:vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca]
>
> Sent: Saturday, 25 October 1997
5:37
>
> To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
> Subject: Re: a Barnes and
Nobel employee speaks out.
>
>
>
> Diane De Rooy wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > In Seattle, at one of the three B&Ns I've frequented, they have
nothing on
>
> > the shelves for Kerouac, Burroughs, Bukowski, and a few others. They
claim
>
> > they can't keep them from being stolen. They won't even keep them
behind
the
>
> > counter, which pisses me off.
>
> >
>
>
>
> Same goes for Vancouver, it's gotten realy bad in recent years. Nearly
>
> all bookstores, except Chapters (B & N knockoff), have Bukowski,
>
> Kerouac, Burroughs, Hunter S. Thompson, and sometimes Ginsberg either
>
> behind or next to the counter. I talked to an owner of one place and was
>
> told Bukowski and Kerouac thefts are increasing all the time. That's
>
> really strange...in all my obsessing with Kerouac, Buk, WSB, & HST I
>
> never once even considered the remote possibility of swiping one of
>
> their books. It's sort of fascinating, the fact that there's such a
>
> trend everywhere.
>
>
>
> Adrien
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 16:29:53 PST
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Keith Medline
<mrsparty@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: What do you think??
Content-Type:
text/plain
Your
points are very well taken,
However, this country is FORCING its
version of "right/wrong" on
other
countries. That is called, being an
asshole. If I was to tell
you
that right handed people are the only people and left handers should
switch
to being right handed you would say go to hell.
This is why the USA is having so many
problems in teh Middle East
and Far
East. These are civilizations that have
existed for thousands
of
years. The United States is not even
300 years old, yet we try to
push
our values on them. That is like a 7
year old telling a 40 year
old
what to do! It is flat out stupid that
we should assume our way is
best.
We are cowards because we cannot accept
defeat. People still bitch
and
moan over the Vietnam war. We lost
it. Why? Our GREAT government
in all
its brilliance decided that communism was wrong. Well whoop di
fuckin
doo. That does not affect us whether it
is morally right or
wrong.
Socialism provides for its destitute,
unlike us. Look at the
Rhine-model
of economics. Germany for example looks
at its destitute
not as
culprits like in America, but rather as victims.
Ronald Reagan and Margret Thatcher ruined
the economy and social
status
in America. Instead of redistributing
the wealth and setting up
social
service programs (not nessisarily welfare) they gave Rich people
more
money. Exactly what rich people
need. More money to distance
themselves
from society and reality.
America the land of opportunity. That is it opportunity. Not
outcomes. A poor person is still a poor person
here, in Germany that
person
will NEVER be destitute.
Our living constitution with its checks
and balances ruins the
speed
and efficency of the government! To
make Frank Sinatra a hero it
took
congress like 2 weeks. What the
hell. I LOVE BLUE EYES, but he
doesn't
need a medal to show for what he has done.
In this great land of ours we have so
many children dying, crying
and
never seeing 100 dollars in the same place.
This is while the US
sends
millions of dollars in releif to Africa and Asia. Why don't we
take
care of oursleves. A boxer would never
gon into a fight without
being
fully healed.
Maybe if this country wasn't founded with
the BIGGEST LIE EVER
TOLD:
"We The People..." That was a
flat out lie. IT DID NOT INCLUDE
1)
Women
2)
Immigrants
-or-
3)
Blacks
Yeah
real government of the people by the people and for the people.
Don't get me wrong I love the USA and
wouldn't want to live
elsewhere,
but the United States is a hypocrit.
We have this jingoism of a dangerous
kind. I hope this makes you
mad. I hope it makes you think. I hope it really offends a lot of
people. You know why? It will make them THINK.
keith
>Leon,
>
>Thanks
for putting it so well. By no means a
perfect country, ours,
but
>show
me many doing any better. Still a
patriotic old hippy in the
>tradition
of JK, AG, and Snyder. . .
>
>J.
Stauffer
>
>Leon
Tabory wrote:
>
>>
I don't want this land to be screwed and I believe we have in our
land as
>>
much bravery and courage as anywhere else on this planet.
>>
>>
If you replaced what a country with what a world, i could get behind
it with
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 09:14:58 -0800
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: What do you think??
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>
Keith Medline wrote:
> We have this jingoism of a dangerous
kind. I hope this makes you
>
mad. I hope it makes you think. I hope it really offends a lot of
>
people. You know why? It will make them THINK.
>
keith
The
point you are making is actually not that far different from the
point
Ginsberg made in his own poem, America.
I would just urge you to
think
not only about what you see as wrong with America, but also about
the
idea of personal responsibility, as Ginsberg writes,
"It
occurs to me that I am America.
I am
talking to myself again."
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 17:43:29 PST
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Keith Medline
<mrsparty@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: What do you think??
Content-Type:
text/plain
A very
interesting and provacative point.
Am I
America? My parents are Italian Americans. Their ancestors were
HEAVILY
persecuted by this government ie the Kefauver hearings. That
was a
great injustice and disservice to my family.
Does America speak
for
me? I hope not. While I may be refered to As "THE
PEOPLE" I don't
listen
to some asshole with millions of dollars and conservative ideals.
Why has
the government made so many infringements upon the bedrooms of
Americans? I hope I am not an American. I live here, I love here, I do
not
agree with here. This government can
NEVER represent me unless I
become
very rich. Maybe the "real"
Americans are rich. Maybe that is
who the
people are.
Keith
>The
point you are making is actually not that far different from the
>point
Ginsberg made in his own poem, America.
I would just urge you to
>think
not only about what you see as wrong with America, but also about
>the
idea of personal responsibility, as Ginsberg writes,
>"It
occurs to me that I am America.
>I
am talking to myself again."
>DC
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Keith mrsparty@hotmail.com / I think of Dean Moriarty.
http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/rothko/31/index.html
------------------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 20:12:59 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: What do you think??
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right on, brother. i agree.
but i think there is more than one
america. america is not a political system; america
is the america in
OTR,
the america of the writers jack idolized.
america is a one-lane
cross
country highway, america is a beat up old gas guzzlin car on the
backroads
of obsolete nowheres, the foothills of the appalachians,
sierras,
a mountain in california, the mississippi, park avenue. don't
allow
the eyesore of Amerika to overshadow the raw beauty of America.
>A
very interesting and provacative point.
>Am
I America? My parents are Italian
Americans. Their ancestors were
>HEAVILY
persecuted by this government ie the Kefauver hearings. That
>was
a great injustice and disservice to my family. Does America speak
>for
me? I hope not. While I may be refered to As "THE
PEOPLE" I don't
>listen
to some asshole with millions of dollars and conservative ideals.
>Why
has the government made so many infringements upon the bedrooms of
>Americans? I hope I am not an American. I live here, I love here, I do
>not
agree with here. This government can
NEVER represent me unless I
>become
very rich. Maybe the "real"
Americans are rich. Maybe that is
>who
the people are.
>Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 03:14:22 UT
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From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: John Lennon in the Porto Santo
Stefano by Lawrence
Ferlinghetti
Rinaldo
- thank you for putting these gems of poetry on the list. whenever i
see
that you've posted, i know i can expect to find a treasure of beauty that
takes
me out of the mundane and into the great spheres where men's and women's
souls
commune with the cosmos.
ciao mi
amico,
sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 03:09:26 UT
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From: Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Paul Maher & the Future of
Kerouac Scholarship
Bill
Gargan wrote:
There's
still lots of work to be done, which why all this bickering upsets me.
It can only detract from general interest in
Kerouac.
i agree
Bill. i think this bitterness not only
detracts from JK, but
seriously
deters good scholarship from being possible.
so long as the
archives
are not fully available (due to this discord and whatever other
reasons
there may be), and possibly not being adequately cared for in some
places,
there can be no hope of putting ALL of the pieces together for the
best
possible understanding.
ciao,
sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 22:26:44 +0000
Reply-To: randyr@southeast.net
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Comments: Authenticated sender is
<randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>
From: randy royal
<randyr@MAILHUB.JAXNET.COM>
Subject: Re: John Lennon in the Porto Santo
Stefano by Lawrence
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three
cheers for rinaldo!!... and sherri, your not to bad with words
yourself.
randy
>
Rinaldo - thank you for putting these gems of poetry on the list. whenever i
>
see that you've posted, i know i can expect to find a treasure of beauty that
>
takes me out of the mundane and into the great spheres where men's and women's
>
souls commune with the cosmos.
>
>
ciao mi amico,
>
sherri
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 23:18:38 -0500
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: America is
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America
is a pine tree in South Carolina.
On the
other hand, some folks would like to forget South Carolina.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 22:47:14 -0600
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Recommended reading
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new
book by quite small press. sort of a
"folklore of a place" about
Tavern
named Silver Dollar and A Blackout in Wichita Kansas
Title:
"Tales from A Blackout"
Author: Patrick Joseph O'Connor
Copyright
1997 First Edition
Publisher:
Rowfant Press, Wichita 67204-4710
I'm
only beginning chapter four.
What to
say....
there
is a folklore of the road for a period beginning with perhaps the
Grapes
of Wrath and moving through Guthrie and Kerouac and company and
the
Grateful Dead and yadayada yada.
But to
those who did not suffer from what WSB referred to as "stasis
horrors",
the density and depth of a place in a town, in a state shows
as much
(or more perhaps) that may have been lost in the perpetual
motion
of the motion motif. Patrick's
wonderful little account truly
lets
the Walls of a Tavern tell the stories of the place itself.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
"hey
its good to be back home again"
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 23:28:14 -0600
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: replace country with world?
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Leon
suggests (as I undersand it)
in
recent poem of the screw you motif that he is not willing to screw
you to
America (a nice nationalism) but if we do the following
calculation
FOR ALL country REPLACE world THEN yes screw you ...
Goodness.
Think
Universally Act Intrapersonally
-- the
bumper sticker from Firewalk Thru Madness --
of
course there are many meanings of screw and you so ... maybe i'll
twist
and shout with the rest of the world too.... !!!
the
vortex in wichita is now firmly placed in my satchel bag by the way!
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 00:46:04 -0500
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From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Tom Waits-On the Road
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Phil,
Thanks for the post about Tom Waits
and the Kerouac recording. There
had
been the odd bits of news on the Raindogs list (Tom Waits) when the
recording
with Primus took place, but none of the details about the Kerouac
material
that you supplied. Ronan is great [I've just last week received his
bibliography/discography
of Beat recordings and haven't even had time to
crack
it. Dharma Beat is Attila's publication, right?
Attila, how do I get a copy of this?
This is really exciting news. I take
it that the recording comes
from
John Sampas...or is it someone else? I've forwarded your post to the
Raindogs
list Phil hoping that will trigger a useful response. I told them
about
Dharma Beat also, Attila...get ready!?!
Antoine
****************
from
Phil Chaput:
>Stephen
Ronan (beat archivist/writer extraordinaire) mentions in this
>months
issue of Dharma Beat Magazine about the release by Geffen Records of
>a
previously unheard recording of Jack Kerouac reading from "On the
Road".
>He
goes on to state "There is every reason to suspect that this is the
>greatest
sustained recording by Kerouac and the release will be another
>milestone
in the publication of his work."
>This
guy really knows his stuff as his "Discography of the Beat Generation
>-
Disks of the Gone World" will attest. I hope he keeps us informed. I also
>found
this on Tom Waits page-
>
>Geffen
Records will release a Jack Kerouac album in early 1998. This album
>will
feature rare recordings by Jack Kerouac, but it will also include the
>song
"On The Road". The music to this was written by Tom Waits and will
>feature
Jack Kerouac with Tom Waits and the members of Primus performing
>the
music behind it. This track was recorded earlier this year at Prairie
>Sun
Studios in Northern California.
>
>This
is exciting stuff. If anyone has anymore info on this keep us
>informed.
Phil
>
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"Blessed are they who can laugh at
themselves, for they shall never
cease
to be amused."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 21:54:07 -0800
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From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Why there is no Jack Kerouac Archive to
Study
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At
03:09 AM 10/27/97 UT, you wrote:
>Bill
Gargan wrote:
>There's
still lots of work to be done, which why all this bickering upsets me.
> It
can only detract from general interest in Kerouac.
Sherri
wrote:
>i
agree Bill. i think this bitterness not
only detracts from JK, but
>seriously
deters good scholarship from being possible.
so long as the
>archives
are not fully available (due to this discord and whatever other
>reasons
there may be), and possibly not being adequately cared for in some
>places,
there can be no hope of putting ALL of the pieces together for the
>best
possible understanding.
Dear
Sherri: Oct 26, 1997
To set the record straight, the
"discord" began when Jan Kerouac
filed
suit against the Sampas family in May, 1994.
At that point, John
Sampas
had been in control of the Kerouac Estate for 3 years. He had made
no move
to put the Kerouac Archive in a library during that period. To the
contrary,
he had sold a good many pieces off to collectors and dealers, and
he had
sabotaged his own dealer Jeffrey Weinberg's attempt to sell the
entire
archive to the Bancroft Library in Berkeley.
Sampas had also
rebuffed
and insulted Tom Staley of the Humanities Research Center at U of
Texas,
Austin, who was also interested in purchasing the collection.
Weinberg
and Bonnie Bearden of the Bancroft Library as well as Tom Staley
are
available to verify what I say (not "unsubstantiated" as Mr. Gyenis
will
claim).
So please do not hold the
"discord" responsible for the Kerouac
Archive
not being available in a library right now.
I know that is what Mr.
Maher
and Mr. Sampas's other supporters have claimed.
They ignore the fact that I have
offered again and again to work
with
Mr. Sampas on getting the Kerouac Archive into a library RIGHT NOW.
The
lawsuit, if it goes forward, will determine who gets what share of the
revenue
from the Kerouac Estate, and whether Jan's heirs and Jack's nephew
Paul
Blake Jr deserve to get anything. But a
library sale could be made
tomorrow,
and the money could be put in escrow until the court decides
whether
it all belongs to Mr. Sampas or whether he must share it with Mr.
Blake
and Ms. Kerouac's heirs. It is that
simple, and that easy, if Mr.
Sampas
wanted to do it.
Bancroft, Stanford, and New York
Public would all pay one million
dollars
for the archive tomorrow, and I know that because I have talked to
the
respective collections directors of each library.
Respectfully, Gerald Nicosia
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Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 00:21:41 -0600
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: i'm stupid ... help
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i'm
ready to switch back from digest to regular mail.
what is
the message?
set
anti-digest?
someone
please backchannel me ASAP!!!!
thanks.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas