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Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:30:54 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: File: "BEAT-L LOG9711"
To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:12:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Dawn B. Sova"
<DawnDR@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Humble Introduction
Thanks
to both George Spanos and R. Bentz Kirby for responding re: RMD.
You're right, I think, others probably do
have the question.
And ---
regarding D. Carter's post re: backchannel versus responses to the
group
--- your responses are another example of why keeping this manner of
reply
is better then reverting to auto replies that only go to the singular
sender. I lurk on the list -- occasionally piping in
--- but I learn and
enjoy
the many posts. Backchannel them, and I
would lose a lot. I don't
think
that I am alone.
Thanks
again.
Dawn
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 01:12:47 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: WSB - question from the gallery
Mime-Version:
1.0
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At
09:34 AM 10/30/97 -0500, Neil Hennessy wrote:
>On
Thu, 30 Oct 1997, RACE --- wrote:
>>
4) Stasis Horrors. This seems to be a biological
>>argument
by WSB for movement -- I've seen and
>>heard
of it many many times. Can folks help
>>
me out with specific references.
>
>The
"Stasis Horrors" would correspond most
>directly
with Burroughs' notions of homo sap being
>"the
human artifact". He discusses this in The
>Job,
I believe, as well as The Adding Machine.
>
>I
read an article in a scholarly journal from
>England
that claimed that Burroughs' concept of
>getting
into space was like the traditional concept
>of
the soul coming free of the body, so you may
>want
to examine some of the ontological precepts
>governing
Burroughs' notions of escaping Time to
>get
into Space. Another thing that aligns Burroughs
>with
some traditional Christian notions of spirituality
>is
his horror and revulsion of the body.
>This
is discussed in "The Postmodern Anus", from
>_At
the Front_.
>
>I
can't tell you the name of the article mentioned
>above,
because unfortunately I found it in the
>University
of Waterloo library through a
>search
of an electronic index of journal articles,
>and
UW is a hundred K away... If you want to find
>it,
search a similar index of scholarly journals, with
>Burroughs
as the subject, and the article appeared in
>something
like "British Studies in Contemporary
>American
Fiction". Sorry for the vagueness of sources,
>but
you didn't expect to not actually
>read
Burroughs, or go to the library, did you? ;-)
>
>Hope
this helps,
>Neil
Hey
David et al,
I'll be
up at UW in the next week, so I'll try to find
uze the
journal Neil is talking about.
Mike
(yes, I'm still here - but not for l o n g . . .)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:21:11 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: parties
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to beat
or not to beat
it is
untidy in the posts of men
to
automaticly respond,
random
virus of thoughts
and
words works through
space
time and random
chance,
empty argument
When
things went askew,
and the
debate waxed low,
wiliam
would accept full responsibility,
totally
my fault he'd call
to
reach a finer discussion.
Beverly
would realy astound him,
she
would look him purposely
right
in the eye and drone on
in long
ungasping killing prose
of a
chair she once sit on
of no
particular care or time.
now
isn't that something, of a chair exacty that way
no
particular way at all.
another
wild bore,
interupted
him in midst of some well dug thought,
and
offered felicio, little smirking mew.
later
he said, why she might of bit it off.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 07:16:00 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: photos of friends never yet seen
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thank
you rinaldo!
thank
you patricia!
images
came out loud and clear and dear.
marie
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 12:51:02 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: blank generation?
In-Reply-To: <345ACA57.479D@sunflower.com>
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kabul
the taliban government in afganistan
has
extended its ban on photographs.
until now it had forbidden photography
of
people, particularly of women, but did
not
outlaw pictures of animals or
non-muslims.
now it is illegal to display
photographs of
living creatures because such
representation
are deemed offensive to taliban-style
islam.
[from
TIME vol.150 no.16 october 20,1997]
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 08:28:52 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: parties
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patricia:
you said it all. the pome (as all good ones should) transcends
the
moment and pierces through time to the list right now.
mc
Patricia
Elliott wrote:
> to
beat or not to beat
> it
is untidy in the posts of men
> to
automaticly respond,
>
random virus of thoughts
>
and words works through
>
space time and random
>
chance, empty argument
>
When things went askew,
>
and the debate waxed low,
>
wiliam would accept full responsibility,
>
totally my fault he'd call
> to
reach a finer discussion.
>
Beverly would realy astound him,
>
she would look him purposely
>
right in the eye and drone on
> in
long ungasping killing prose
> of
a chair she once sit on
> of
no particular care or time.
>
now isn't that something, of a chair exacty that way
> no
particular way at all.
>
another wild bore,
>
interupted him in midst of some well dug thought,
>
and offered felicio, little smirking mew.
>
later he said, why she might of bit it off.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 10:33:18 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: blank generation?
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19971101125102.006a5d10@pop.gpnet.it>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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> kabul
>
> the taliban government in afganistan
has
> extended its ban on photographs.
>
> until now it had forbidden photography
of
> people, particularly of women, but did
not
> outlaw pictures of animals or
non-muslims.
>
> now it is illegal to display
photographs of
> living creatures because such representation
> are deemed offensive to taliban-style
islam.
>
>[from
TIME vol.150 no.16 october 20,1997]
Off the
Beat-en path, but interesting.
For any
who have read Howard Zinn's history texts (History of the US,
History
of the 20th Century...erc.) one realizes that what the Taliban
Government
has publically declaired has been going on here for a long
time--not
with photographs, but with what students in secondary schools are
provided
by our local, state, & national governments. The Howard Zinn texts
are
impossible to put down once you start reading.
Zinn
exposes the most frightening forms of censorship--texts that exclude
information.
Of
course this happens in the arts all the time.
j grant
Small Press Authors and Publishers
display books
FREE
at
BookZen
http://www.bookzen.com
402,900 visitors - 07-01-96 to
07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 11:56:27 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Humble Introduction
In-Reply-To: Message of Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:12:55 -0500
from <DawnDR@AOL.COM>
On Sat,
1 Nov 1997 00:12:55 -0500 Dawn B. Sova said:
>Thanks
to both George Spanos and R. Bentz Kirby for responding re: RMD.
>
You're right, I think, others probably do have the question.
>
>And
--- regarding D. Carter's post re: backchannel versus responses to the
>group
--- your responses are another example of why keeping this manner of
>reply
is better then reverting to auto replies that only go to the singular
>sender. I lurk on the list -- occasionally piping in
--- but I learn and
>enjoy
the many posts. Backchannel them, and I
would lose a lot. I don't
>think
that I am alone.
>
>Thanks
again.
>
>Dawn
Okay, you're point is well taken but all of
us have to be vigilant, then, to p
ost
only relevant messages so that our mailboxes aren't filled with personal no
tes on
subjects unrelated to the list's concerns.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 11:59:26 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: WSB - question from the gallery
In-Reply-To: Message of Sat, 1 Nov 1997 01:12:47 -0500
from <cake@IONLINE.NET>
On Sat,
1 Nov 1997 01:12:47 -0500 M. Cakebread said:
>At
09:34 AM 10/30/97 -0500, Neil Hennessy wrote:
>
>>On
Thu, 30 Oct 1997, RACE --- wrote:
>
>>>
4) Stasis Horrors. This seems to be a biological
>>>argument
by WSB for movement -- I've seen and
>>>heard
of it many many times. Can folks help
>>>
me out with specific references.
>>
>>The
"Stasis Horrors" would correspond most
>>directly
with Burroughs' notions of homo sap being
>>"the
human artifact". He discusses this in The
>>Job,
I believe, as well as The Adding Machine.
>>
>>I
read an article in a scholarly journal from
>>England
that claimed that Burroughs' concept of
>>getting
into space was like the traditional concept
>>of
the soul coming free of the body, so you may
>>want
to examine some of the ontological precepts
>>governing
Burroughs' notions of escaping Time to
>>get
into Space. Another thing that aligns Burroughs
>>with
some traditional Christian notions of spirituality
>>is
his horror and revulsion of the body.
>>This
is discussed in "The Postmodern Anus", from
>>_At
the Front_.
>>
>>I
can't tell you the name of the article mentioned
>>above,
because unfortunately I found it in the
>>University
of Waterloo library through a
>>search
of an electronic index of journal articles,
>>and
UW is a hundred K away... If you want to find
>>it,
search a similar index of scholarly journals, with
>>Burroughs
as the subject, and the article appeared in
>>something
like "British Studies in Contemporary
>>American
Fiction". Sorry for the vagueness of sources,
>>but
you didn't expect to not actually
>>read
Burroughs, or go to the library, did you? ;-)
>>
>>Hope
this helps,
>>Neil
>
>Hey
David et al,
>
>I'll
be up at UW in the next week, so I'll try to find
>uze
the journal Neil is talking about.
>
>Mike
(yes, I'm still here - but not for l o n g . . .)
Mike, I hope you won't mind my posting this
message as an example of the type
of post
that should have been backchanneled rather than sent to the list. I do
n't
mean to pick on you. We've all made
such posts (including yours truly) fro
m time
to time. A post like this was just
intended for one listmember. No rea
son all
of us have to read it.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 12:35:18 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sylvanna Vanderpark
<SylvannaV@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat Women--Santa Cruz./ San Jose
Hi, I'm
new to the list, and pretty much new to the Beat in general, and I
was
wondering if there were any fellow Torontonians out there who know of any
Beat events like these closer to home.
Sylvanna
<<
Leon was kind enough to post the details for
Carolyn Cassidy's
appearance at UC Santa Cruz. This talk is part of a larger series of
things on Women Beat Writers. The schedule as I have it (and it
certainly doesn't give one much time to plan
Nov 6
"Wild Women" a panel featuring
Carolyn Cassidy, Anne Waldman and Jeanine
Pommy Vega, UC Santa Cruz, Kresge Town Hall, 4:30-6pm
An evening of p[oetry with Joan Kyger and
Anne Waldman. San Jose State
University, Music Concert Hall, 7:30 pm
etc,
etc, etc....
>>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 12:19:05 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Humble Introduction
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.16.19971101125639.3057435a@mail.mpx.com.au>
Mime-Version:
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Glenn
Cooper wrote:.
>
>I
just joined this list today.
>My
other favourite's are Knut Hamsun (a Beat 50 years ahead of his time),
What do
others on the list think about this? Hamsun as "a Beat 50 years
ahead
of his time?"
He's a
favorite of mine.
j grant
Small Press Authors and Publishers
display books
FREE
at
BookZen
http://www.bookzen.com
402,900 visitors - 07-01-96 to
07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:22:32 UT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Humble Introduction
i vote
strongly for the old format of sending to the individual. if one want
something
to go to the list, one will fix that, should a
post unintentionally
go only
to an individual.
ciao,
sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Bill Gargan
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 1997 8:56 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: Humble Introduction
On Sat,
1 Nov 1997 00:12:55 -0500 Dawn B. Sova said:
>Thanks
to both George Spanos and R. Bentz Kirby for responding re: RMD.
>
You're right, I think, others probably do have the question.
>
>And
--- regarding D. Carter's post re: backchannel versus responses to the
>group
--- your responses are another example of why keeping this manner of
>reply
is better then reverting to auto replies that only go to the singular
>sender. I lurk on the list -- occasionally piping in
--- but I learn and
>enjoy
the many posts. Backchannel them, and I
would lose a lot. I don't
>think
that I am alone.
>
>Thanks
again.
>
>Dawn
Okay, you're point is well taken but all of
us have to be vigilant, then, to
p
ost
only relevant messages so that our mailboxes aren't filled with personal
no
tes on
subjects unrelated to the list's concerns.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 14:43:51 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: WSB - question from the gallery
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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At
11:59 AM 11/1/97 EST, Bill Gargan wrote:
>>On
Sat, 1 Nov 1997 01:12:47 -0500 M. Cakebread said:
>>Hey
David et al,
^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
Mike, I hope you won't mind my posting this
>message
as an example of the type of post that
>should
have been backchanneled rather than sent
>to
the list. I don't mean to pick on
you. We've
>all
made such posts (including yours truly) from time
>to
time. A post like this was just
intended for one
>listmember. No reason all of us have to read it.
Uhh,
well I was going to share the info with everyone,
but if
nobody is interested I'll just forward it to David.
Sorry
for trying to help . . . Maybe next time I'll
slander
somebody and call them a few names - I didn't
think
this offer would be any less appropriate.
{;^>
Just
being honest. This list is getting too
"politically
correct"
for me.
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 11:10:00 -0800
Reply-To: Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Apoloogy to Tim and a few words about
Dianne DePrima's reading
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I guess
an apology is Beat related. If that Snata typo offended Tim there
might
be others too. My apologies to the
wonderful UCSC and all its alumni.
Actually
I can make sure it is beat related and report to you that Dianne
DePrimo
was just terrific! It was not just a poetry reading. It was an
illuminating
meeting of a wonderful woman and bohemian artist. It was
wonderful
to see her looking so well, relating so effectively, even the
graceful
hand gestures added another dimension to the feel of the words
related
by this amazing person.
She
brought to life the New York bohemian scene of her youth with poems
from a
winter nibbling oreos all day, visiting her artist neighbors. She
read
other short poems from later years in Arizona and California.
Her grandfather, her favorite, was an
anarchist born in Italy. Her parents
didn't
like his influence on her. He would take her to midnight rallies when
she was
about seven years old.
She
didn't want a husband but did want a child so she picked the man and had
a baby
girl. Today that may not seem such a big deal anymore. She described
in one
of her short poems a telephone conversation with the father. When she
told
him how beautiful his daughter was, he respnded with an "oh, wow>"
The one
long poem she read was about war. The
only real war is the war on
the
imagnation, all other wars are subsumed under it. The only true famine
is the
starving of the imagination, I don't recall the exact words, the poem
is very
powerful.
No
small part of the fun was to see a packed auditorium with youthful face
listening
with intense attention in hushed silence.
Unfortunately
I had to leave for work soon after the question answer hour
started.
An absolutely don't miss when the show comes to your neighborhood.
Even if
it takes a bit of travel. You will love it.
leon
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 20:07:37 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Humble Introduction
In-Reply-To: <v03007808b080ce94cfe4@[156.46.45.146]>
Mime-Version:
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friends,
here in
Italy it's a great moment for Knut Hamsun, the novel
titled
"Hunger" translated in italian ("Fame") stands out on
the
bookshelves. i found a beat connection via Charles Bukowski who
quoted
Hamsun such a man who eats his own flesh in order to
living
and continue to be an artist (to work hard).
btw:
Knut Hamsun (won nobel prize). sad Knut Hamsun was a nazi (and
a
friend to adolf hitler), this fate of some artists (i.e. Celine,
Pirandello,
Heidegger, etc.) is a mistery of this gone century.
saluto
tutti,
Rinaldo.
*
At
12.19 01/11/97 -0600, jo grant wrote:
>Glenn
Cooper wrote:.
>>
>>I
just joined this list today.
>
>>My
other favourite's are Knut Hamsun (a Beat 50 years ahead of his time),
>
>What
do others on the list think about this? Hamsun as "a Beat 50 years
>ahead
of his time?"
>
>He's
a favorite of mine.
>
>j
grant
>
> Small Press Authors and Publishers
display books
> FREE
> at
> BookZen
>
http://www.bookzen.com
> 402,900 visitors - 07-01-96 to
07-01-97
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 14:07:40 -0800
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Docudiary On Allen Ginsberg
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Has
anyone on the list heard of or seen the 1996 documentary _Poet On
the
Lower East Side, A: a Docudiary On Allen Ginsberg_, directed by
Gyula
Gazdag? How does it compare to the _Life And Times_ documentary?
Adrien
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 14:36:13 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Humble Introduction
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19971101200737.00cb2a58@pop.gpnet.it>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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>friends,
>
>here
in Italy it's a great moment for Knut Hamsun, the novel
>titled
"Hunger" translated in italian ("Fame") stands out on
>the
bookshelves. i found a beat connection via Charles Bukowski who
>quoted
Hamsun such a man who eats his own flesh in order to
>living
and continue to be an artist (to work hard).
>btw:
Knut Hamsun (won nobel prize). sad Knut Hamsun was a nazi (and
>a
friend to adolf hitler), this fate of some artists (i.e. Celine,
>Pirandello,
Heidegger, etc.) is a mistery of this gone century.
>
>saluto
tutti,
>Rinaldo.
R,
It
always comes as a surprise to me when I meet a writer and (s)he hasn't
read
Hamsun's HUNGER. About as painful an inspiration--exampleof
dedication--that
I know of.
Sad
indeed about his Nazi sympathies. Haven't pursued that element inhis
life.
Not sure he ever defended his position or explained it. I have a
friend
(Poet Chuck Miller) who has considerable knowledge about the
Scandinavian
writers. I'll ask him about this the
next time i see him.
Peace,
j grant
Small Press Authors and Publishers
display books
FREE
at
BookZen
http://www.bookzen.com
402,900 visitors - 07-01-96 to
07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 16:23:26 EST
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: M84M79 <M84M79@AOL.COM>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Humble Introduction
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In a
message dated 97-10-31 22:09:43 EST, you write:
<<
My welcome to Glenn, also.
Now --- what is RMD? Please?
Dawn >>
i'd also like to welcome glenn,
may the beat-l teach, move and inspire
you (okay and piss you off a
little)
as it has done me. :-)
~~marlene
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:54:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Humble Introduction
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19971101200737.00cb2a58@pop.gpnet.it>
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This
brings up an interesting question. Should we discount what might be
fine
works of art because of a dubious connection to something
undesirable?
I, myself, am a Jew and hahve every reason in the world to
regard
all things Hitler but I cant totally
discount him. I am the first
person
to acknowledge that Hitler was literally a genius. He was a smart,
manipulative
man but he used his intelligence for evil, so for that reason
I do
not necessarily respect his genius even though I acknowlegde that he
was
one, you know what I mean? Take Cat Stevens for example. He is a
fundamentalist
Muslim or something, a supporter of Farrakhan but I like
his music.
Kerouac wasn't fond of homosexuals but I still like his work.
Any
response?
On Sat,
1 Nov 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
friends,
>
>
here in Italy it's a great moment for Knut Hamsun, the novel
>
titled "Hunger" translated in italian ("Fame") stands out
on
>
the bookshelves. i found a beat connection via Charles Bukowski who
>
quoted Hamsun such a man who eats his own flesh in order to
>
living and continue to be an artist (to work hard).
>
btw: Knut Hamsun (won nobel prize). sad Knut Hamsun was a nazi (and
> a
friend to adolf hitler), this fate of some artists (i.e. Celine,
>
Pirandello, Heidegger, etc.) is a mistery of this gone century.
>
>
saluto tutti,
>
Rinaldo.
> *
> At
12.19 01/11/97 -0600, jo grant wrote:
>
>Glenn Cooper wrote:.
>
>>
>
>>I just joined this list today.
>
>
>
>>My other favourite's are Knut Hamsun (a Beat 50 years ahead of his
time),
>
>
>
>What do others on the list think about this? Hamsun as "a Beat 50
years
>
>ahead of his time?"
>
>
>
>He's a favorite of mine.
>
>
>
>j grant
>
>
>
> Small Press Authors and
Publishers display books
>
> FREE
>
> at
>
>
BookZen
>
> http://www.bookzen.com
>
> 402,900 visitors -
07-01-96 to 07-01-97
>
>
>
>
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:55:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Docudiary On Allen Ginsberg
Comments:
To: Adrien Begrand <vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca>
In-Reply-To: <345BA82C.1FBA@sk.sympatico.ca>
Mime-Version:
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No, but
I would love to see it!!!
On Sat,
1 Nov 1997, Adrien Begrand wrote:
>
Has anyone on the list heard of or seen the 1996 documentary _Poet On
>
the Lower East Side, A: a Docudiary On Allen Ginsberg_, directed by
>
Gyula Gazdag? How does it compare to the _Life And Times_ documentary?
>
>
Adrien
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:11:11 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: questionable backgrounds of some
authors
MIME-Version:
1.0
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Nancy B
Brodsky wrote:
>
This brings up an interesting question. Should we discount what might be
>
fine works of art because of a dubious connection to something
>
undesirable? I, myself, am a Jew and have every reason in the world to
>
regard all things Hitler but I cant
totally discount him. I am the first
>
person to acknowledge that Hitler was literally a genius. He was a smart,
>
manipulative man but he used his intelligence for evil, so for that
reason
> I
do not necessarily respect his genius even though I acknowledge that he
>
was one, you know what I mean? Take Cat Stevens for example. He is a
>
fundamentalist Muslim or something, a supporter of Farrakhan but I like
>
his music. Kerouac wasn't fond of homosexuals but I still like his work.
>
Any response?
My
initial reaction is to remember that one is always on shaky ground when
one
mistakes the art for the artist (and vice versa). People are extremely
complicated,
and can go through an incredible number of changes in a
lifetime
(the former Mr. Stevens...now known as Yusuf Islam... being an
excellent
modern-day example).
I seem
to recall that Kerouac and/or Ginsberg were crushed to discover
through
their research that Ezra Pound was an anti-Semite.
Jym
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:16:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Jack "not fond" of homosexuals
Mime-Version:
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Nancy,
I couldn't let your comment about Jack's
attitude to homosexuals
pass
without comment...although I better be quick about this if I want to
beat
the other responses the comment will elicit.
I wonder what gave you the impression
that Jack wasn't fond of
homosexuals.
He was a conflicted person, and some of that was in rspect to
homosexual
relationships, but his friendships with Allen Ginsberg, William
Burroughs,
his awareness of the relationship between Neal Cassady and Allen
G., and
the (perhaps apocraphal) story of his one night stand with Gore
Vidal certainly are at odds with the view of
someone "not fond" of homosexuals.
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"Blessed are they who can laugh at
themselves, for they shall never
cease
to be amused."
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:20:41 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: questionable backgrounds of some
authors
In-Reply-To:
<199711012310.RAA15721@mail.execpc.com>
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Really?
He's an anti-semite? I didnt know that....
On Sat,
1 Nov 1997, Jym Mooney wrote:
>
Nancy B Brodsky wrote:
>
>
> This brings up an interesting question. Should we discount what might be
>
> fine works of art because of a dubious connection to something
>
> undesirable? I, myself, am a Jew and have every reason in the world to
>
> regard all things Hitler but I
cant totally discount him. I am the first
>
> person to acknowledge that Hitler was literally a genius. He was a smart,
>
> manipulative man but he used his intelligence for evil, so for that
>
reason
>
> I do not necessarily respect his genius even though I acknowledge that he
>
> was one, you know what I mean? Take Cat Stevens for example. He is a
>
> fundamentalist Muslim or something, a supporter of Farrakhan but I like
>
> his music. Kerouac wasn't fond of homosexuals but I still like his work.
>
> Any response?
>
> My
initial reaction is to remember that one is always on shaky ground when
>
one mistakes the art for the artist (and vice versa). People are extremely
>
complicated, and can go through an incredible number of changes in a
>
lifetime (the former Mr. Stevens...now known as Yusuf Islam... being an
>
excellent modern-day example).
>
> I
seem to recall that Kerouac and/or Ginsberg were crushed to discover
>
through their research that Ezra Pound was an anti-Semite.
>
>
Jym
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:17:29 -0600
Reply-To: cawilkie@comic.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cathy Wilkie
<cawilkie@COMIC.NET>
Subject: Re: tim leary
Comments:
To: Marie Countryman <country@sover.net>
MIME-Version:
1.0
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Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
>
title? ghost-or tim-written? or tim written as ghost?
> mc
>
>
Cathy Wilkie wrote:
>
>
> Has anybody yet read the latest timothy leary book, the one that deals
>
> with his death???
>
>
>
> i haven't got up the guts to get it yet.
>
>
>
> cathy
well,
as understand it, he wrote it 'as' he was dying. from what
interviews
i read and/or saw of him after he found out he was dying
(cancer
i think) he saw death as 'the next big trip', like it was a new
place
for his mind to explore, or something of the sort. he wasn't
afraid
of dying, rather he looked forward to
it. and i think that is
what
this book is, all of his own thoughts on dying.
cathy
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:31:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: questionable backgrounds of some
authors
In-Reply-To:
<199711012310.RAA15721@mail.execpc.com>
Mime-Version:
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Okay,
before we all get into a frenzy let me rephrase my comment RE
Kerouac
and Homosexuals..what I meant was that Kerouac wasnt comfortable
with
Ginsberg being gay. This is what I heard and in fact, i believe i
heard
it on this very lsit!
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 15:38:15 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: city lights submissions
Content-Type:
text/plain
Nice to
see you back, Nancy. Missed your spirited posts. Hope to see
more of
you on the list. How about posting some poetry for us?
leon
>Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:49:55 -0500
>Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From:
Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
>Subject: Re: city lights submissions
>To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>I
would love to submit to City Lights! Does anyone know the address? I
>can't
afford the Poetry Market book...:(
>.-
>
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 09:05:54 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: questionable backgrounds of some
authors
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Nancy B
Brodsky wrote:
>
>
Really? He's an anti-semite? I didnt know that....
Here
are a couple of passages from "Allen Verbatim" where Ginsberg
answers
a couple questions about his thoughts on Pound's anti-semitic
leanings:
"Q:
Well, how about--some Jewish people have reacted very strongly to
some of
the negative things he said about the Jewish people.
AG: Pound told me he felt that the Cantos were
'stupidity and ignorance
all the
way through,' and were a failure and a 'mess,' and that his
'greatest
stupidity was stupid suburban anti-Semitic prejudice,' he
thought--as
of 1967, when I talked to him. So I
told him that I thought
since
the Cantos were for the first time a single person registering over
the
course of a lifetime all of his major obsessioins and thoughts and
the
entire rainbow arc of his images and clingings and attachments and
discoveries
and perceptions, that they were an accurate representation of
his
mind and so couldn't be thought of in terms of success or failure,
but
only in the terms of the actuality of their representation, and that
since
for the first time a human being had taken the whole spiritual
world
of thought through fifty years and followed the thoughts out to
the
end--so that he built a model of his consciousness over a fifty-year
time
span--that they were a great human achievement. Mistakes and all,
naturally."
"Q:
Do you personally ignore Pound's involvement with fascism, or do you
just
accept it?
AG: No,
I see it as part of character and humour, h-u-m-o-u-r, which is
changeable. I think he was, as he pleaded, mentally ill
for a while--If
you
listen to his records, the phonograph records made in St.
Elizabeth's,
there's a splenetic, irritable voice.
Whereas if you listen
to the
records made by 1958--in Milan, a very rare copy of 'With
Usura'--and
later records at Spoleto in '66, you hear the voice of
Prospero
himself, whose every third thought is in his grave: the fine old
man
with beautiful manners with the whispering paper-thin voice
pronouncing
syllable by syllable with great intensity and meaning each
though
of the earlier younger man. So he'd
come to a resolution of his
woes, a
rue; like Prospero, he drowned his books and plunged 'deeper than
did
ever plummet sound' his magic wand of Pride, and took unto his
council
silence, broken only by good-humored advisement on rare sensible
occasion
as when he told me, 'Stupidity and ignorance all the way
through."
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 20:21:56 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Re: Humble Introduction/long essay in
return
MIME-Version:
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Nancy B
Brodsky wrote:
> This
brings up an interesting question. Should we discount what might be
>
fine works of art because of a dubious connection to something
>
undesirable? I, myself, am a Jew and hahve every reason in the world to
>
regard all things Hitler but I cant totally
discount him. I am the first
>
person to acknowledge that Hitler was literally a genius. He was a smart,
>
manipulative man but he used his intelligence for evil, so for that reason
> I
do not necessarily respect his genius even though I acknowlegde that he
>
was one, you know what I mean?
<snip>Nancy:
The
evil that abided in Hitler went beyond Jews.
He attempted to exterminate
Jews,
Poles, Gypsies, homosexuals, and others.
The larger evil is the ordinary
people
who allowed themselves to be maniupulated.
The truth is that with tv and
the
"information" society, it is more likely to happen again now. Think about
urban
myths, AOL killer cookie, a few years ago, the Proctor and Gamble sign was
a
Satanic symbol, and so many more that we have seen arise. The people must
gurard
against manipulation, but in a time when the exit polls predict winners
of
the
presidential race before polls close in CA, how do we debate openly issues
of
great
importance.
Being
politically correct and the lack of critical thinking places this society
into a
larger risk than ever. Look at various
movements in our political life.
When I
was young, I remember white middle class voters critizing the black
community
as they went to church and were told how to vote. And to think, they
had
vans to take people to the polls. Now,
the white conservatives go to the
church
and are told how to vote by Pat Robertson and the "christian
coalition."
And my
lord, they have transportation available.
The entire process is exit
polls
and brain washing on many different fronts.
And oh yeah, those white
folks,
same ones, only now they are Republicans.
Racisim
and sexism remain a large problem in our society. Things have changed.
But it
is still taught and evil often seems "genius" not because it is
"genius",
but
because it is willing to do, say and think things, that you would consider
insane. And then act on them and pressure others.
Look at
Mississippi where they are rounding up all these kids and charging them
with
"conspiracy" for playing dungeons and dragons. Does Salem witch hunts ring
a
bell. This is part of the lesson that
Burroughs tried to teach us. We are
not
so
civilized. We are only a firing of a
synapses from the utter primitive and
evil.
We must
be vigilant. But do not assign genius
to evil.
It is
interesting to read some folk lore. If
it is true, in WWI, Hitler was
awaken
by a dream he was suffocating. Moments
later a shell hit the bunker. He
would
have died if he had not run out of the bunker into apparent danger. There
may not
be a god as we would like to conceive of a GOD, but there is some
intelligence
that is collective and hopefully moving toward the light and love.
We all
must be mindful of achieving and loving more each day if we want to leave
our
children a chance.
I guess
I shouldn't watch the X-Files eh?
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 20:32:52 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Humble Introduction/long essay in
return
In-Reply-To: <345BD5B4.A11BE15E@scsn.net>
Mime-Version:
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I was
only saying that Hitler was intelligent man but he used his
intelligence
for all the wrong reasons. It takes a genuis to do what
Hitler,
to manipulate that many people, and get away with abusing his
power
for so long. This is not a reflection, mind you,on the intellignce
of the
people that fell under his spell. Rather, Hitler was just very good
at what
he did. Look at Mein Kampf. He wrote the long manifesto duringa
short
jail stay. Incredible. I loathe Hitler for what he did but I stand
in awe
of the genuis he had and in awe of the possiblities of that genius,
had he
not been so hate-filled.
Love
always, Nancy
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 19:30:33 -0800
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Another movie question
MIME-Version:
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Has
anyone seen or know anything about Barbet Schroeder's 1985 film _The
Charles
Bukowski Tapes_? I can't find any online info on it...apparently
it's
235 minutes long.
Anyone?
Adrien
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 21:16:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: Jack "not fond" of
homosexuals
MIME-Version:
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BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU,.Internet
writes:
> I wonder what gave you the impression
that Jack wasn't fond of
>homosexuals.
He was a conflicted person, and some of that was in rspect
>to
>homosexual
relationships, but his friendships with Allen Ginsberg,
>William
>Burroughs,
his awareness of the relationship between Neal Cassady and
>Allen
>G.,
and the (perhaps apocraphal) story of his one night stand with Gore
>Vidal certainly are at odds with the view of
someone "not fond" of
>homosexuals.
It was probably that in Jack's mind was
imbedded very rural,
traditional,
franco-american, 50's ideas about homosexuality, and
realizing
that he was at least moderately bisexual conflicted with the
notions
placed in his psyche during the key developmental stages of his
youth...
Sigmund (hehe sniff sniff)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 22:25:35 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "THE ZET'S GOOD."
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Excuse this interuption
I am
having trouble with my e-mail account, messages seem to be bouncing away
from
me. I hope to have it fixed shorty, please do not disconnect me! Thanks,
Dave
Breithaupt
Breithau@kenyon.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 23:06:08 -0600
Reply-To: cawilkie@comic.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cathy Wilkie
<cawilkie@COMIC.NET>
Subject: Re: humble introduction
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>
And --- regarding D. Carter's post re: backchannel versus responses to the
>
group --- your responses are another example of why keeping this manner of
>
reply is better then reverting to auto replies that only go to the singular
>
sender. I lurk on the list --
occasionally piping in --- but I learn and
>
enjoy the many posts. Backchannel them,
and I would lose a lot. I don't
>
think that I am alone.
>
>
Thanks again.
>
>
Dawn
I would
definitely have to agree with dawn on this.
sometimes i just
like to
sit back and watch ya'll go.....and if you backchannelled most
responses
this list would not be any fun anymore....
cathy
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 00:11:09 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Glenn Cooper
<coopergw@MPX.COM.AU>
Subject: Hamsun
In-Reply-To:
<v0300780bb080ee3f408a@[156.46.45.146]>
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>R,
>
>It
always comes as a surprise to me when I meet a writer and (s)he hasn't
>read
Hamsun's HUNGER. About as painful an inspiration--example of
>dedication--that
I know of.
I agree. It has been said that all modernist
fiction owes a huge debt to
Hamsun
and "Hunger". It is a truly magnificent book, and I recommend it to
everyone.
Hamsun is also Henry Miller's favourite author. He especially
liked
"Mysteries" which, alas, seems to be the most difficult one to find
...
Glenn
C.
______________________________________________
"Work
while the day lasts, for the night of
death cometh when no man can work."
______________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 00:11:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Glenn Cooper
<coopergw@MPX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Humble Introduction
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.OSF.3.95.971101174954.17599C-100000@is8.nyu.edu>
Mime-Version:
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At
17:54 01/11/97 -0500, you wrote:
>This
brings up an interesting question. Should we discount what might be
>fine
works of art because of a dubious connection to something
>undesirable?
I, myself, am a Jew and hahve every reason in the world to
>regard
all things Hitler but I cant totally
discount him. I am the first
>person
to acknowledge that Hitler was literally a genius. He was a smart,
>manipulative
man but he used his intelligence for evil, so for that reason
>I
do not necessarily respect his genius even though I acknowlegde that he
>was
one, you know what I mean? Take Cat Stevens for example. He is a
>fundamentalist
Muslim or something, a supporter of Farrakhan but I like
>his
music. Kerouac wasn't fond of homosexuals but I still like his work.
>Any
response?
I think
a work of art should be separated from he/she who produced it. As
Rimbaud
says, "If a piece of wood wakes up one morning to find that it's a
violin,
is it its fault?" I is truly another. A person's art is one thing,
his
life is another.
Bob
Dylan recently said, "People expect me to be my songs, but Shakespeare
is not
Hamlet, Dante is not Faust." I think you have to draw the line.
If a
serial killer like Ted Bundy or Geoffrey Dahmer wrote a book, I'd
judge
that book on its merits. The life of the author is an immaterial
consideration.
Glenn
C.
________________________________________
"Work
while the day lasts, for the night
of death cometh when no man can work.
_________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 00:31:52 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Melissa Lazorwitz <Illnana907@AOL.COM>
Subject: In reference to Allen Ginsberg
I am
currently doing a project on Allen Ginsberg for a class at New York
University.
I have to find two critiques on Allen Ginsberg's poem, "The
Shrouded
Stranger." I have not had any luck. If possible, if anyone has any
material
related to "The Shrouded Stranger" or any other detailed Critiques
from
articles on his poems I would greatly appreciate it. Please contact me
asap I
need any possible information by Sunday, November 3rd. Thank you,
Melissa.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 01:32:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Humble Introduction
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.16.19971102161751.353f5bca@mail.mpx.com.au>
Mime-Version:
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I agree
with Glen on this one. I know that when I write poetry, a lot of
people
assume that I am depressed but Im actualyl a pretty happy person.
On Sun,
2 Nov 1997, Glenn Cooper wrote:
> At
17:54 01/11/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>This brings up an interesting question. Should we discount what might be
>
>fine works of art because of a dubious connection to something
>
>undesirable? I, myself, am a Jew and hahve every reason in the world to
>
>regard all things Hitler but I cant
totally discount him. I am the first
>
>person to acknowledge that Hitler was literally a genius. He was a smart,
>
>manipulative man but he used his intelligence for evil, so for that reason
>
>I do not necessarily respect his genius even though I acknowlegde that he
>
>was one, you know what I mean? Take Cat Stevens for example. He is a
>
>fundamentalist Muslim or something, a supporter of Farrakhan but I like
>
>his music. Kerouac wasn't fond of homosexuals but I still like his work.
>
>Any response?
>
> I
think a work of art should be separated from he/she who produced it. As
>
Rimbaud says, "If a piece of wood wakes up one morning to find that it's a
>
violin, is it its fault?" I is truly another. A person's art is one thing,
>
his life is another.
>
>
Bob Dylan recently said, "People expect me to be my songs, but Shakespeare
> is
not Hamlet, Dante is not Faust." I think you have to draw the line.
>
> If
a serial killer like Ted Bundy or Geoffrey Dahmer wrote a book, I'd
>
judge that book on its merits. The life of the author is an immaterial
>
consideration.
>
>
Glenn C.
>
>
________________________________________
>
"Work while the day lasts, for the night
> of death cometh when no man can work.
>
_________________________________________
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 00:45:08 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: in my own home town.
MIME-Version:
1.0
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text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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today
was the free sale, it is an annual
event, since 1974. It all
started
with a large garage sale to support the great magazine The city
moon, at 4th and michigan. after selling stuff for several days they
still
had a yard full of stuff and decided to just put a sign up. Free.
every
since, a large community of us have gotten together and brought
stuff
and taken stuff. No money, but many two for one sales. You can
not
take until 10, bring stuff after 12 and clean up is at 2. those are
the
rules. oh and everything is free. there is usually brownies and
surprises.
many writers and artists partake, and neighbors. why do i
think
this is beat related. because i was not
aware of the site
http://www.larryville.com/index.htm
it is a
dandy, with much information about william.
so have
a community free sale, make sure you
line up a reliable clean
up
crew. and you too can find out things about the beats. Many people
have
tempted us to change this into a fund raiser but we resist, it
nothing
down or we won't do it. First year your
greedy, second year you
are
ready and you really dump stuff. We are
very organized in an
unorganized
way.
patricia
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 02:37:07 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Brian M. Kirchhoff"
<bkirchho@S-CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Jack "not fond" of
homosexuals
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997110118160826@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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i think
he had no problem with homosexuals.
i don't
think he cared for fags.
neither
ginsberg nor burroughs were fags. they
were homosexual/bisexual.
there
is a notable difference between homosexuals and fags.
(the
fag plymouth quote from OTR comes to mind.)
my two
cents or whatever.
Brian
M. Kirchhoff----Omaha, NE
"Someone
must have been telling lies about Joseph K., for without having
done
anything wrong he was arrested one fine morning." -Kafka, The Trial
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 12:33:15 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: questionable backgrounds of some
authors
In-Reply-To: <345B6172.214@together.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
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Diane
Carter wrote:
[...
snipped ...]
>"Q:
Do you personally ignore Pound's involvement with fascism, or do you
>just
accept it?
>
>AG:
No, I see it as part of character and humour, h-u-m-o-u-r, which is
>changeable. I think he was, as he pleaded, mentally ill
for a while--If
[...
snipped... ]
>DC
>
cari
amici,
i'm
afraid Ezra Pound had a simpaty for the evil, when he come
back to
italy he tried to get in touch with conspirancy neo-fascism
groups.
he was disappointed because the italians seem to reject
"ben"
experience then the poet became politically silent living
in
venice since his death. Allen Ginsberg told us that Ezra Pound
"bet
on one wrong horse", i think AG deals with EP kindly. of course
it's a
GREAT ENIGMA why a poet so gentle & charming had such a guru
like
Benito "Ben" Mussolini.
un
saluto a tutti,
rinaldo.
*
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 05:59:16 -0800
Reply-To: Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: questionable backgrounds of some
authors
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Happy
Sunday morning for us afternoon for you
Rinaldo,
So Ezra
(Interesting
name for Pound. Hebrew for "Help" as a noun.)
repudiated
hatred of Jews but not fascism? Two different things. Or did he
lie to
Allen when he said that hatred was
stupid? Or did Allen' s kindness
make
white lies for Ezra?
>then
the poet became politically silent living
>in
venice since his death.
Is
Venice heaven or is Venice hell? (;--)
Ciao
amigo.
leon
-----Original
Message-----
From:
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date:
Sunday, November 02, 1997 3:47 AM
Subject:
Re: questionable backgrounds of some authors
>Diane
Carter wrote:
>[...
snipped ...]
>>"Q:
Do you personally ignore Pound's involvement with fascism, or do you
>>just
accept it?
>>
>>AG:
No, I see it as part of character and humour, h-u-m-o-u-r, which is
>>changeable. I think he was, as he pleaded, mentally ill
for a while--If
>[...
snipped... ]
>>DC
>>
>cari
amici,
>
>i'm
afraid Ezra Pound had a simpaty for the evil, when he come
>back
to italy he tried to get in touch with conspirancy neo-fascism
>groups.
he was disappointed because the italians seem to reject
>"ben"
experience Allen Ginsberg told us that Ezra Pound
>"bet
on one wrong horse", i think AG deals with EP kindly. of course
>it's
a GREAT ENIGMA why a poet so gentle & charming had such a guru
>like
Benito "Ben" Mussolini.
>
>un
saluto a tutti,
>rinaldo.
>*
>.-
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 10:54:55 -0500
Reply-To: dh383@freenet.carleton.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Laurie Fuhr
<dh383@FREENET.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Discovered soft words contemplating
jazz..
Heya folks, here's my own humble
introduction; my name is Laurie,
and I just
plunged into the whole beat thing about a week ago. I caught
this
documentary called "The Beat Generation" on the History channel.. it
included
Kerouac reading and answering questions on the Steve Allen show,
and
commentary by Diane Diprima, Tim Leary, Allen Ginsburg, William
Burrows,
Ferlinghetti, and a whole slew of that kiln.
Had footage of
Ginsburg
reading Moloch (I believe it's called?) and it blew me away.
Yes,
I'm still pretty much in the dark so I came on the List to get
crammed
full of knowledge.
I'm you're average, run of the mill
poet out of Ottawa--any other
Ottawans
out there? I've been lurking around the
'scene here for awhile
but I'm
just getting into submitting. I don't
really know what I'm doing
yet. But my friend Armour, he's big on Beat, and
he and I were wondering why
the
hell they don't have Poetry slams and that around here. So we might
just
try to get something going.
But anyway.. here I am, I hope you're
a friendly bunch towards
newcomers
because I'm just about as ignorant of Beat as they get. It
just..
fascinates me. I guess a major movement
like that would fascinate
anyone,
once they've heard things about it.
It's been a few years since
the
Three Calaberos kicked North America in the behind, sure, but I still
get the
sense I've been left out of something.
Repercussions in the
modern-day. And I don't mean bongos :)
Would anyone recommend reading
material for someone just getting
into
Beat? I'd appreciate it.
So anyway.. howdee doo, folks!
Laurie.
--
* R e c
o v e r i n g * "..she said,
* -= t
h e =- *
'I don't need to be an angel, but I'm
* S a t
e l l i t e s * n o t h i n
g
* *
counting crows * * if I'm not this high.."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 08:21:30 -0800
Reply-To: Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: in my own home town.
MIME-Version:
1.0
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You got
something there, Patricia! I mean you are outdoing yourself again
there,
maybe it will reach in here too? Sounds like so much community fun!
To add
beat relation we could have readings to jazz maybe, Beat-L poetry
possibly
even.
Our
voices reach the end of the world, but is anyone resonating at home?
Here is
to moving from greedy to ready. Anyone up to it here? Yoo Hoo!
The
Larry of Lawrence page is another happy surprise! The global village
reaching
into the heartland of the USA! Good news this weekend.
leon
-----Original
Message-----
From:
Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date:
Saturday, November 01, 1997 10:51 PM
Subject:
in my own home town.
>today
was the free sale, it is an annual
event, since 1974. It all
>started
with a large garage sale to support the great magazine The city
>moon, at 4th and michigan. after selling stuff for several days they
>still
had a yard full of stuff and decided to just put a sign up. Free.
>every
since, a large community of us have gotten together and brought
>stuff
and taken stuff. No money, but many two for one sales. You can
>not
take until 10, bring stuff after 12 and clean up is at 2. those are
>the
rules. oh and everything is free. there is usually brownies and
>surprises.
many writers and artists partake, and neighbors. why do i
>think
this is beat related. because i was not
aware of the site
>http://www.larryville.com/index.htm
>it
is a dandy, with much information about william.
>so
have a community free sale, make sure
you line up a reliable clean
>up
crew. and you too can find out things about the beats. Many people
>have
tempted us to change this into a fund raiser but we resist, it
>nothing
down or we won't do it. First year your
greedy, second year you
>are
ready and you really dump stuff. We are
very organized in an
>unorganized
way.
>patricia
>.-
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 11:42:51 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Discovered soft words contemplating
jazz..
Comments:
To: Laurie Fuhr <dh383@FREENET.CARLETON.CA>
In-Reply-To:
<199711021554.KAA03400@freenet5.carleton.ca.carleton.ca>
Mime-Version:
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Laurie-
Welcome!
As a relative newcomer myself, I would recommend starting with
the
"popular" beat stuff like HOWL and On The Road. Just move on from
there,
reading any and all things beat and beat related. I would also
check
out the website put out by Levi Asher but I can't remember the
address.
Maybe someone else can? Anyway, regarding Kerouac, make sure you
don't
read Big Sur until after you've read OTR, Desolation Angels and
Dharma
Bums, only because Big Sur is so, Ive heard, that it turns people
off
before they've really had a chance to explore and to get to know Jack.
Also,
my favorite Ginsberg volume is his big red book of collected
poems,1947-1980.
Good luck and enjoy your adventure!
~Nancy
On Sun,
2 Nov 1997, Laurie Fuhr wrote:
> Heya folks, here's my own humble
introduction; my name is Laurie,
>
and I just plunged into the whole beat thing about a week ago. I caught
>
this documentary called "The Beat Generation" on the History
channel.. it
>
included Kerouac reading and answering questions on the Steve Allen show,
>
and commentary by Diane Diprima, Tim Leary, Allen Ginsburg, William
>
Burrows, Ferlinghetti, and a whole slew of that kiln. Had footage of
>
Ginsburg reading Moloch (I believe it's called?) and it blew me away.
>
Yes, I'm still pretty much in the dark so I came on the List to get
>
crammed full of knowledge.
>
> I'm you're average, run of the mill
poet out of Ottawa--any other
>
Ottawans out there? I've been lurking
around the 'scene here for awhile
>
but I'm just getting into submitting. I
don't really know what I'm doing
>
yet. But my friend Armour, he's big on
Beat, and he and I were wondering why
>
the hell they don't have Poetry slams and that around here. So we might
>
just try to get something going.
>
> But anyway.. here I am, I hope you're
a friendly bunch towards
>
newcomers because I'm just about as ignorant of Beat as they get. It
>
just.. fascinates me. I guess a major
movement like that would fascinate
>
anyone, once they've heard things about it.
It's been a few years since
>
the Three Calaberos kicked North America in the behind, sure, but I still
>
get the sense I've been left out of something.
Repercussions in the
>
modern-day. And I don't mean bongos :)
>
> Would anyone recommend reading
material for someone just getting
>
into Beat? I'd appreciate it.
>
>
> So anyway.. howdee doo, folks!
>
>
> Laurie.
>
>
>
>
> --
> *
R e c o v e r i n g * "..she
said,
>
* -= t h e =- *
'I don't need to be an angel, but I'm
> *
S a t e l l i t e s * n o t
h i n g
> *
* counting crows * * if I'm not this high.."
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 11:16:18 -0800
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: [Fwd: Re: humble introduction]
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Date:
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From:
James Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
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stauffer@pacbell.net
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Cathy,
I agree
that for a voyeur the current format is better.
Backchannel
is good. Think of Beat-L a party of
over 200 people. Not
every
conversation need be for everybody. The
interim format made
people
think at least a few second speaking in front of the whole room
rather
than to a smaller segment. Under the
current format it is hard
to
backchannel folks not already in your address book. Often
backchannel
is the best way to get information that isn't perhaps
important
for everybody. I thought it made the
life of the list
better. D. Carter disagrees. I thought the post volume was more
managable,
but there are folks doing lots of lists (Bentz comes to mind)
who
obviously have a higher threshold for e-mail overload than I do.
J.
Stauffer
Cathy
Wilkie wrote:
. sometimes i just
>
like to sit back and watch ya'll go.....and if you backchannelled most
>
responses this list would not be any fun anymore....
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 14:29:47 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Discovered soft words contemplating
jazz..
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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Hi
Laurie,
I'm down here in Montreal
(transplanted American) and there are
other
Canadians on the list (Adrien Begrandout in Saskatchewan, poetry and
comment;
Neil Hennessey at Western(?), all things Burroughs; Derek Bealieu
in
Calgary, art, Beat poetry and writing, Mike Cakebread in Toronto ...who's
threatening
to leave us!, Michael Hayward out in Vancouver, beat and
alternative
presses and the best Van Morrison web site anywhere ...and
others
I've forgotten)
I arrived here with sonic and visual
rather than literary interests,
but
theyve edjimacated me. I was in same position as you a year and a half
ago, so
I'll tell what I've got lots out of. First of all the Web; there is
an
inbelievable wealth of great and reliable material on all the main
players
and cultural themes; start with Levi Asher's site ( a beat list
member)
[http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/].
For reading history and background, I
strongly recommend "Jack's
Book",
a biography of Jack Kerouac told through interviews with his friends.
Alternatively,
"Desolate Angel" another Jack biography by Dennis McNally.
For recordings, the Phillip Glass
recording "Hydrogen Jukebox" with
libretto
and readings by Allen Ginsberg, as well as Ginsberg's own "Ballad
of the
Skeletons". "Kerouac - kick joy darkness" a recently released
tribute
to
Kerouac which includes some of his performance aling with many other
great
tribute performances. The Kerouac box set by Rhino is outstanding if
you a
live of Jack's voice. Three CDs that really deliver. Also, if you
frequent
alternative/used record stores in Ottawa, you might find that one
of them
has a great boot called "Beat Jazz: pictures from the gone world",
vinyl
on pesky serpent label. The Beat Generation box set on Rhino, as well
as
"Howls, Raps and Roars" are also good although Beat Geneartion is a
little
uneven with some beatsploitation material, but worth having nonetheless.
For the literature I'll let others
kick in, but "On the Road",
"Subterraneans",
Dharma Bums"/Kerouac, "Coney Island of the
Mind"/Ferlinghetti,
"First Third"/Neal Cassady, "Last of the
Mocassins"/Charles
Plymell are sure-fire.
Antoine
P.S.
the Kerouac memorabilia collector and bibliographer Rod Anstee lives in
Ottawa
and is occasionally on the list.
P.P.S.
poetry slams have begun to take hold here in Montreal so it should
wok in
Ottawa; a musical composition about Lord Buckley was presented in
Ottawa
at their Chamber Music Festival last year. It was composed by David
Amram,
a friend of Kerouac and Ginsberg. Lord Buckley was a hipster as
opposed
to a beat!?
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"Blessed are they who can laugh at
themselves, for they shall never
cease
to be amused."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 14:39:49 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: humble introduction]
Comments:
To: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
In-Reply-To: <345CD182.27FB@pacbell.net>
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What,
pray tell, is backchanneling? Somebody enlighten me pls.
Thanks.
Love
always, nancy
The Absence
of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 14:43:49 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Discovered soft words contemplating
jazz..
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997110214294679@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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I also
recommend Angel Headed Hispter, it has great pictures, a very
expensive
book but well worth the price of the quality of the book and the
info on
Jack. Its a coffeetable book but I dont have a coffeetable:), so I
keep it
on my bookshelf...its edited by Steve Turner...enjoy
love
always, Nancy
On Sun,
2 Nov 1997, Antoine Maloney wrote:
> Hi
Laurie,
>
> I'm down here in Montreal
(transplanted American) and there are
>
other Canadians on the list (Adrien Begrandout in Saskatchewan, poetry and
>
comment; Neil Hennessey at Western(?), all things Burroughs; Derek Bealieu
> in
Calgary, art, Beat poetry and writing, Mike Cakebread in Toronto ...who's
>
threatening to leave us!, Michael Hayward out in Vancouver, beat and
>
alternative presses and the best Van Morrison web site anywhere ...and
>
others I've forgotten)
>
> I arrived here with sonic and visual
rather than literary interests,
>
but theyve edjimacated me. I was in same position as you a year and a half
>
ago, so I'll tell what I've got lots out of. First of all the Web; there is
> an
inbelievable wealth of great and reliable material on all the main
>
players and cultural themes; start with Levi Asher's site ( a beat list
>
member) [http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/].
>
> For reading history and background, I
strongly recommend "Jack's
>
Book", a biography of Jack Kerouac told through interviews with his
friends.
>
Alternatively, "Desolate Angel" another Jack biography by Dennis
McNally.
>
> For recordings, the Phillip Glass
recording "Hydrogen Jukebox" with
>
libretto and readings by Allen Ginsberg, as well as Ginsberg's own "Ballad
> of
the Skeletons". "Kerouac - kick joy darkness" a recently
released tribute
> to
Kerouac which includes some of his performance aling with many other
>
great tribute performances. The Kerouac box set by Rhino is outstanding if
>
you a live of Jack's voice. Three CDs that really deliver. Also, if you
>
frequent alternative/used record stores in Ottawa, you might find that one
> of
them has a great boot called "Beat Jazz: pictures from the gone
world",
>
vinyl on pesky serpent label. The Beat Generation box set on Rhino, as well
> as
"Howls, Raps and Roars" are also good although Beat Geneartion is a
>
little uneven with some beatsploitation material, but worth having
nonetheless.
>
> For the literature I'll let others
kick in, but "On the Road",
>
"Subterraneans", Dharma Bums"/Kerouac, "Coney Island of the
>
Mind"/Ferlinghetti, "First Third"/Neal Cassady, "Last of
the
>
Mocassins"/Charles Plymell are sure-fire.
>
> Antoine
>
>
P.S. the Kerouac memorabilia collector and bibliographer Rod Anstee lives in
> Ottawa
and is occasionally on the list.
>
>
P.P.S. poetry slams have begun to take hold here in Montreal so it should
>
wok in Ottawa; a musical composition about Lord Buckley was presented in
>
Ottawa at their Chamber Music Festival last year. It was composed by David
>
Amram, a friend of Kerouac and Ginsberg. Lord Buckley was a hipster as
>
opposed to a beat!?
>
>
>
> Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
> "Blessed are they who can laugh at
themselves, for they shall never
> cease
to be amused."
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 16:08:41 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Mitchell Smith
<Praetor77@AOL.COM>
Subject: Burroughs and methadone
Does
anyone know the state of Burroughs' addiction at the time of his death.
I
remember at the end of Literary Outlaw, Burroughs had started methadone
treatment.
Is this correct? And how did that last? Earlier of course,
Burroughs
had used the apomorphine treatment. Does Burroughs' later addiction
discount
its effectiveness? Is apomorphine still used here or in England?
adios
mjs
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 18:54:22 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: questionable backgrounds of some
authors
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You
don't need to do any research to learn of Ez
Pound's
anti-semitism. He made anti-semitic
broadcasts
for
Mussolini's government from Italy during the war, and
spent
some time in American nuthouses to compensate.
The
intervention
of Ernest Hemingway and e e cummings helped
keep
old Ez from being branded a traitor.
But I've read
some of
Ez' ravings, and they are wonderful, filled with
imagery
of craven jews. Its all crap but Ez
believed it
intensely. The Beats were young men in the 40s, they
certainly
could read about Ez in the newspapers.
Mike
Rice
At
05:11 PM 11/1/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Nancy
B Brodsky wrote:
>
>>
This brings up an interesting question. Should we discount what might be
>>
fine works of art because of a dubious connection to something
>>
undesirable? I, myself, am a Jew and have every reason in the world to
>>
regard all things Hitler but I cant
totally discount him. I am the first
>>
person to acknowledge that Hitler was literally a genius. He was a smart,
>>
manipulative man but he used his intelligence for evil, so for that
>reason
>>
I do not necessarily respect his genius even though I acknowledge that he
>>
was one, you know what I mean? Take Cat Stevens for example. He is a
>>
fundamentalist Muslim or something, a supporter of Farrakhan but I like
>>
his music. Kerouac wasn't fond of homosexuals but I still like his work.
>>
Any response?
>
>My
initial reaction is to remember that one is always on shaky ground when
>one
mistakes the art for the artist (and vice versa). People are extremely
>complicated,
and can go through an incredible number of changes in a
>lifetime
(the former Mr. Stevens...now known as Yusuf Islam... being an
>excellent
modern-day example).
>
>I
seem to recall that Kerouac and/or Ginsberg were crushed to discover
>through
their research that Ezra Pound was an anti-Semite.
>
>Jym
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 20:37:36 -0500
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: [Fwd: Geese]
MIME-Version:
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--------------164462545FB58CFD1A65CCC5
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Hi all:
When I
wrote Geese and posted it, I copied Charles Plymell. He in turn
sent to
me this poem about a rabbit. When the
rabbit managed to run
between
my front tires and clear the rear before they came along, I
thought
of this poem. That is why the most
recent posting was dedicated
to
Charles. The undetermined point of
view. He gave me permission to
post
this to complete the connection. First
Geese, then this, then my
rabbit
poem.
Now,
Charles also found something and would like to see if someone who
speaks
this language, must be German or some similiar language to my
uneducated
eye, can translate the last paragraph for him.
I am assuming
he
means the one with Huncke in it.
http://www.fto.de/fthp/gassner/jk_mesdd2.html
I wrote
and he replied in full:
Yes,
your poem was my inspiration.
Also
would you mind posting this site:
(http://www.fto.de/fthp/gassner/jk_mesdd2.html)
Pam
found on the web to the list to see if someone could translate the
last
paragraph
for me.
CP
If you
can translate this and don't have Charles' address, please post
it to
the list and there are several persons who will forward it to him.
And it
is about Huncke, so it must be beat.
The paragraph also contains
the
mention of Ozzy Osborne and other things that make it a unique
paragraph,
that's for sure. Uuuhhh, Charles, I do
have the right link,
right?
:-)
I hope
you enjoy the poem. I found it to
contain a lot in a little and
really
like it. It is black humor I guess, but
a nice tidy piece of
work.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
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Subject:
Re: Geese
I saw a
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darting
into time and space
the
guts left of a view undetermined
cp
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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 18:13:01 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: lately i just marlene
Content-Type:
text/plain
>Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:53:12 EST
>Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From:
M84M79 <M84M79@AOL.COM>
>Subject: Re: lately i just marlene
>To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>marie,
>here's
my address:
>
>Marlene
Giraud
>935
Lemongrass Lane
>Wellington,
Fla. 33414
>
>where
do i send five bucks? ooh i can't wait to haer them...geez, i
sound
like
>a
five year old...thanks again....
>
>~~marlene
>.-
>
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 23:30:21 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Glenn Cooper
<coopergw@MPX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Burroughs and methadone
In-Reply-To:
<971102145448_-1728213696@emout02.mail.aol.com>
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At
16:08 02/11/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Does
anyone know the state of Burroughs' addiction at the time of his death.
>I
remember at the end of Literary Outlaw, Burroughs had started methadone
>treatment.
Is this correct? And how did that last? Earlier of course,
>Burroughs
had used the apomorphine treatment. Does Burroughs' later addiction
>discount
its effectiveness? Is apomorphine still used here or in England?
>
>adios
>mjs
>
According
to an obit written by Richard Hell, Burroughs was on the
methadone
program until the day he died. Surprised the hell out of me.
The
Hell article can be found at:
http://vs1.ws4.u-net.net/www.geek.co.uk/burroughs/hell.html
Glenn
C.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 02:39:49 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Van the man and Unspeakable Visions for
Bentz
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Hi
Bentz, (Bentz backchanneled me on this, but everyone should go visit....)
The url is below and you should also
check out his material (his
thesis
actually) on small presses, Unspeakable Visions at.......
http://www.harbour.sfu.ca/~hayward/UnspeakableVisions/page1.html
For Van
the man it's......
http://www.harbour.sfu.ca/~hayward/van/van.html
Michael
Hayward has set up and maintains these pages. Hi Michael!
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"Blessed are they who can laugh at
themselves, for they shall never
cease
to be amused."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 02:53:12 -0800
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: More of the Dharma
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Hi
everyone,
I just
finished the first thirty pages of Some Of The Dharma, and
thought
I'd share some interesting passages...I remember some people had
posted
pieces from the book already, and if I'm repeating what you've
already
posted please forgive my ignorance.
First
of, there's a wonderful little snippet of a conversation between
Kerouac
and Jamie & Cathy Cassady, revealing the origin of the 'God is
Pooh
Bear' line from the final lines of On The Road:
"'Why
is the mountain sitting there?' (man asks children)
Jamie:
'Because nobody's on there and we're not supposed to climb on
it because the dirt'll fall off.'
'Who
made the mountain?' (man)
They:
'God made it.'
Man:
'Who is God?'
Jamie:
'Us.' And right then Cathy sayd: He wants to play with the
fence.'
Man:
'Who?'
Cathy
(showing bear toy): 'Me. Don't you know that I am Poo Bear?
God is
Poo Bear"
"Eyeball
leaps to see
Ego
leaps to vain
Worry
leaps to gnaw
Tongue
to tattle, taste
Brain
to frame
Imagination
draw---
Foot
leaps to walk
Finger
to feel, grab, claw,
Cock to
throb, think,
Mind to
think up thoughts,
Choice
to choose up choices,
But
Right Mindfulness
Leaps
to avoid:
This is the true Morphine."
Finally,
this funny little bit...with Jack fusing Buddhism and American
Express:
"078-833-368
078-833-367
078-833-369
Thus is the perfection of ancient Karma
and of karma to come, but
that
it rots
in pieces, and therefore who will abide by it in the mind?
Brain struggleth, body ageth, Eternal Mind
rest.
Seventy eight (78) is the number of years
that will enable me to
reach
the
year 2000 A.D. 0-78 is the birth and
death before it, and hint of
zeros
after it, and 0. 833 IS THE PRESENT MYSTERY. 367 to 369 is the
rise
in
vibratory perfection to a hum and come, and divides in Threes the
Saha
Triple
World of Suffering for dissolution in Mind.
(Numbers are from Travelers Cheques)"
So far
the text of the book is what I'd expected...a lot of repetition,
not his
best work, but with many little typical Kerouac nuggets
scattered
throughout. All those little literary Samadhis make it all
worthwhile.
Adrien
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 03:29:42 -0600
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Jeff Taylor
<taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Re: More of the Dharma
In-Reply-To: <345DAD18.1B12@sk.sympatico.ca>
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On Mon,
3 Nov 1997, Adrien Begrand wrote:
> I
just finished the first thirty pages of Some Of The Dharma, and
[...]
>
First of, there's a wonderful little snippet of a conversation between
>
Kerouac and Jamie & Cathy Cassady, revealing the origin of the 'God is
>
Pooh Bear' line from the final lines of On The Road:
>
[...]
>
Man: 'Who?'
> Cathy
(showing bear toy): 'Me. Don't you know that I am Poo Bear?
>
>
God is Poo Bear"
glad to
see that cleared up....I knew that line in OTR couldn't have
anything
to do with the constellation Ursa Major....
*******
Jeff
Taylor
taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
*******
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 12:33:24 +0000
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: GOODBYE AND THANKS FOR ALL THE FISH
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captain
hoek here
trying
to unsub
hope it
goes through smoothly
no
im not
mad at anybody.
time to
go.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 17:49:48 +0100
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: More of the Dharma
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.PMDF.3.95.971103032548.568440020C-100000@ctrvax.Vande
rbilt.Edu>
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At
03.29 03/11/97 -0600, Jeff Taylor wrote:
>On
Mon, 3 Nov 1997, Adrien Begrand wrote:
>
>>
I just finished the first thirty pages of Some Of The Dharma, and
>[...]
>>
First of, there's a wonderful little snippet of a conversation between
>>
Kerouac and Jamie & Cathy Cassady, revealing the origin of the 'God is
>>
Pooh Bear' line from the final lines of On The Road:
>>
[...]
>>
Man: 'Who?'
>>
Cathy (showing bear toy): 'Me. Don't you know that I am Poo Bear?
>>
>>
God is Poo Bear"
>
>glad
to see that cleared up....I knew that line in OTR couldn't have
>anything
to do with the constellation Ursa Major....
>
>*******
>Jeff
Taylor
>taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
>*******
>
cari
amici,
at the
end of "On the Road" we are in the heaven
"...
and stars'll be out, and don't you know
that God is Pooh Bear? the evening
star..."
in the
video (i've on CD, ed sullivan's show?)
where
Jack Kerouac read
such
sentence he turn his eyes to the sky,
maybe
the above dharma dialogue (fine and good) was converted
to
another metaphor in the OTR.
out of
this planet the stars... "the father we never found".
i think
that the lost father,
(god)
is a hidden plot in the jack's novel.
un
saluto a tutti da
rinaldo
* the beet *
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 17:33:10 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: (FWD) Frank Winters
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.PMDF.3.95.971103032548.568440020C-100000@ctrvax.Vande
rbilt.Edu>
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>From:
"Eric Sharp" <stpltd@netway.net>
>To:
<rasa@gpnet.it>
>Subject:
Frank Winters
>Date:
Sun, 2 Nov 1997 21:07:25 -0700
>
> Frank Winters is a Denver poet in his
early 50s who has been
>translated
into Serbian. He has traveled extensily in Europe, India, Tibet
>and
North American. He once featured Corso and Ginsberg as his tatoo
>parlor/poetry
venue in Commerce City, Colorado, and performed when he
>lived
in London, where he has introduced several American writers to
>bookstores and a now defunct newsletter Strangefish. He
is published with
>Howling
Dog Press and sharptongue (Denver). Eric Hjerstedt Sharp &
>publisher
sharptongue
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 12:22:10 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "THE ZET'S GOOD."
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Burroughs and methadone
Yes,
Burroughs was still on methadone at the time of his death. He had special
status
and was allowed two weeks worth of "take homes" which means he did
not
have to
go to the clinic every day for his dose. His dose by the way, was
pretty
small, he was just on maintenance level.
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 14:59:01 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: The Kerouac Quarterly Web Page Updated!
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The
Kerouac Quarterly page has been updated today! News on Florida Kerouac
scholar,
Bob Kealing and his attempt to preserve Jack Kerouac's and Memere's
Orlando
cottage.
Also, an organized reading of Some of the
Dharma at St. Mark's in New York.
Go to:
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.html
Thanks! Paul.....
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:43:27 -0800
Reply-To: Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: GOODBYE AND THANKS FOR ALL THE FISH
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Since
you have not said anything to me personally about this shocking sudden
announcement,
I thought I'sd wait to hear from you. I hope you are o.k. and
will
let me know something.
Love
leon
-----Original
Message-----
From:
Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date:
Monday, November 03, 1997 8:34 AM
Subject:
GOODBYE AND THANKS FOR ALL THE FISH
>captain
hoek here
>trying
to unsub
>hope
it goes through smoothly
>no
>im
not mad at anybody.
>time
to go.
>mc
>.-
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 16:19:02 -0800
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Ring of bone/spontaneous orgasm
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Gary
Glazner--
Somehow
don't have your address of I'd send it direct.
Found the source
of the
story of Lew's having a spontaneous orgasm after writing the
"ring
of bone" poem in Lew's interview with David Meltzer in 1969
from--"Golden
Gate: Interviews with Five Poets"
which I had forgotten I
owned
and stumbled across the other day. What
a great collection of
interviews!
J.
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 20:07:21 -0500
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From: Marlene Giraud <M84M79@AOL.COM>
Subject: pome
Comments:
cc: GTL1951@aol.com
POETICIDE-- a writer's hallucination
i sat in my room with jack kerouac last night
and i crumbled
hugged my knees
and listened to the voice of my
mad
cracked
calloused
hands -- the invention
the spontaneous writer
the ONLY writer...
tossed my hair in a bun
wrapped myself in cotton linens
ate crackers and cheese and laughed out loud
i want to hear
tappity taps and clickety clicks
typewriters warming under my frenzied
fingers
but its the low glow of a computer
and the silence of my suburbia
marshmallow nights in front of the
t.v.
insomnia and piles of books--
the reformation of a poet
i'm growing inside these
tight blue jeans.
writing my name in the sand
or the blue knit carpet of my room
my split-level home
my split-level mind
my aching jazz-soul
my drippy slippy lilting voice
that moves
with my moods
and slides through poetry like
melted moons
I want to get drunk!
I want to get high!
suck nicotine and kiss someone i
hardly know
smell the fog
inhale the driveway concrete
the neighbor's dog
caricatured moonlight spiderlight dances
Oh! my piece of life
piece of stained glass freedom
piece of ass and frozen highway
Oh blue rain and sunday mornings
memories of church choir and
pancake breakfeast
i wish
i didn't know where i'll be when i wake up.
Oh jack,
i need to feel hot wine sliding
down my throat
take tea trips with eyes
closed.
i would've liked to seen your
face
your drunksad eyes
maybe touch your shoulder
hear the world
go "pop!"
but, i'm still dreaming
i'm still flowing
i'm still creating
and maybe its not
hitch hike america
or booze freedom
maybe its not
stolen cars
or san francisco
but its my journal i cling to
my innocence i run away from
i love in soft waves
i sing out loud in the car
i scratch the sky
i mold
i grasp
i hold
i'm soaking in sadness
rolling in madness
tracing my fingers along the edges
guiding my hips
the cd's on
repeat
repeat
repeat
i feel like a woman
and i'm still
naked.
~~marlene
nov. 2nd at 1:00 am
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 20:55:42 -0500
Reply-To: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@is8.nyu.edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Poem
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Here is
a poem for you guys....enjoy!
Crying
Myself to Sleep--April 5-20, 1997
Allen,
how I never knew
and how
I always wanted to kiss yourh and
stroke
your beard
have
your baby
share a
joint or two, even
but you
went too soon
or
maybe I was just born too late
a man
of your genius is rarely created
and
there shall be no more
after
you
Allen,
the sone of the tragic Naomi, you have
gone
one
more best mind destroyed by a madness of
a
different kind
And I
hope you dance
with
Jack, up there in heaven
two
friends reunited again
And I
hope you look down and
taste
my tears, my tears that fall for you
salty
and bittersweet
and I
found out in the most unnatural way, I
turned
on the computer and Reauters hourly
news
said POET IS DEAD
but you
are not really and truly dead are you?
tell me
you aren't,tell me
you're
still here, jumping off the pages of my
red
bible and right now, I wish I had a fire
escape,
so I could sit on it, writing
poetry
about the dearly departed but alas this is
not
Brooklyn and its not 1954 and I'm
awakened
from my fantasy reverie
and you
are my own sit down vision
and
I've been counting the Saturdays since you
died,
isn't that awful?
I've
collected every scrap of words about you
that I
could
and its
not so much that you died Allen
because
you had to go sometime right?, but the
fact
that you died before I met you, the fact
that I
had so many chances to meet you but
slipped
through my fingers like
my baby
sister's hair
and I'm
wracked with tears and my heart
weighs
a ton since you're gone, baby
my
"secret agent loverman"
as
someone once said whose name escapes me
now but
I'm
sure I'll wake up in the middle of the night
and
remember her name
but by
then it'll be too late because I'll have gone
on,
with my
poem here and
this is
where I say,
Good
night, Allen, see you in my nighttime
dream.
Love
Always, Nancy
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven
For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 22:19:28 -0600
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: frans dream
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a
friend of mine and a friend of Williams, had a dream about william
about a
week after the bardo. to me evoked memories of william, of how
he
would move and act at a gathering.. i also find dreams that pathway
to
magic so i send it here, he was a sweetie.
p
Frans'
Dream
September
97
I was
at a gathering to see a Buddhist master and friend, wm. Burroughs
for
sensan. The gathering was at a home in the country. With few
exceptions
it was the same Kansas farm where the week before I had
attended
wm. burroughs bardo.
Many of
the same people attended the sensan as had attended the bardo,
many
close friends, others unknown to me.
seating was arranged in a
rough
semicircle; wm was seated louts at its opening in his suit jacket
and
trousers that fit him to loosely near the end of his life. He sat
and the
crowd mingled and visited.
Occasionally,
he would catch someone's eye with his characteristic
subtlety
call a person to him
a
slight beckoning of hand, and sideways s pull of his chin would cause
the
person to go and join him. There each
would sat with him and
william
would speak quietly to them - sometimes hand them something
sometimes
reach out to touch an arm or chest.
It was
a beautiful evening - the first cool refreshment after very hot
weather. The people gathered were warm and
comfortable with one
another. I was thoroughly enjoying myself and I
reflected(as I had at
the
bardo) that wm had created a magical vibrant peace around the event.
I was
about to comment as much to a friend when I glanced up to see wm
beckon
me. I went
and sat
on the ground before wm. He said" i have something for you:
leaned
left and pulled from his pocket a $50. Dollar bill, so crumbled
that it
took some time for him to straighten it. Wm did this with
patience
and great care. It was so soft and worn
that it felt like fur
as he
placed it on my palm. "Wait, I
have more" removed two dollar
bills
which he straightened and placed on top of the first bill. Laying
his
hand on mine and gently grasping on it for just a moment.
I woke
with the warmth of his hand on mine.
.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 00:51:45 -0800
Reply-To: jjm@Tidalwave.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Mader <jjm@TIDALWAVE.NET>
Organization:
Lockheed Martin
Subject: 1st post please read i need feed back
thank u!!!!!
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i would
like to start off by saying this is my first post, i am
intrigued
by your comments and keen observations. altought i think
instead
of observations and enlighten about the the past we as a whole
shoud
start a new "beat" (if u will), start going out and making noise,
start
to unravale the thoughts that are so twisted up in are minds that
are
screaming to get out. instead of
reveling in the 40's and 50's and
so on
that we explore new territory and give the 90's a new name make
the
beat happen now,play a cruel joke upon the 90's cosmic family, the
caravan
driving , take the kids to baseball practice generation. we all
have
something in common here we all have intrest in the past and we
love
it, we want to live in it. but reality has denied us this request.
so we
must make anew. take out thoughts of the past and interpreat them
into
the 90's skeem of things and start a new joyous worship in the game
that we
know is life our life we have been granted this lets go mad in
it and
start an new generation of mad cat digging the beat. i can see
it now
young kids going out in there parents
sedan, making there way to
the
local book store and pondering thoughts in a book written by "us"
buying
this book and reaviling in its complexity yet its simplisity.
they
start to use there mind and soon start another beat movement
appears
and it is to never die, please lets let "IT" never die, let us
all
have hope that no one is to foget out heros kerouac, ginsberg,
cassidy
(thank you jack) the mad man in the JUNK yard bill burroughs
(take
it form him) let us spin wildly out of
control and upon our
finger
tip[s let us spin a novel that shall,
"DEFINE A GENERATION"
the
end,
in need
feed back to what i have gone to extreme to jote down upon the
page,
please do not take away any credability acount of the spelling,
keep in
mind i am young and still learing the ropes.
keep it rolling
ladies
and gents its out life let live it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 00:18:43 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: frans dream
In-Reply-To: <345EA250.4E1C@sunflower.com>
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Cool
dream but I have one question..what's a bardo?
love
always, nancy
On Mon,
3 Nov 1997, Patricia Elliott wrote:
> a
friend of mine and a friend of Williams, had a dream about william
>
about a week after the bardo. to me evoked memories of william, of how
> he
would move and act at a gathering.. i also find dreams that pathway
> to
magic so i send it here, he was a sweetie.
> p
>
Frans' Dream
>
>
September 97
>
> I
was at a gathering to see a Buddhist master and friend, wm. Burroughs
>
for sensan. The gathering was at a home in the country. With few
>
exceptions it was the same Kansas farm where the week before I had
>
attended wm. burroughs bardo.
>
Many of the same people attended the sensan as had attended the bardo,
>
many close friends, others unknown to me.
seating was arranged in a
>
rough semicircle; wm was seated louts at its opening in his suit jacket
>
and trousers that fit him to loosely near the end of his life. He sat
>
and the crowd mingled and visited.
>
Occasionally, he would catch someone's eye with his characteristic
>
subtlety call a person to him
> a
slight beckoning of hand, and sideways s pull of his chin would cause
>
the person to go and join him. There
each would sat with him and
>
william would speak quietly to them - sometimes hand them something
>
sometimes reach out to touch an arm or chest.
> It
was a beautiful evening - the first cool refreshment after very hot
>
weather. The people gathered were warm
and comfortable with one
> another. I was thoroughly enjoying myself and I
reflected(as I had at
>
the bardo) that wm had created a magical vibrant peace around the event.
> I
was about to comment as much to a friend when I glanced up to see wm
>
beckon me. I went
>
and sat on the ground before wm. He said" i have something for you:
>
leaned left and pulled from his pocket a $50. Dollar bill, so crumbled
>
that it took some time for him to straighten it. Wm did this with
>
patience and great care. It was so soft
and worn that it felt like fur
> as
he placed it on my palm. "Wait, I
have more" removed two dollar
>
bills which he straightened and placed on top of the first bill. Laying
>
his hand on mine and gently grasping on it for just a moment.
> I
woke with the warmth of his hand on mine.
> .
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 01:29:15 -0800
Reply-To: jjm@Tidalwave.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Mader <jjm@TIDALWAVE.NET>
Organization:
Lockheed Martin
Subject: let us all dig!!!
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going
mad in a narcadic state proffesing to my girl my undying love,
long
live dylan dig he people!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 23:47:39 -0600
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: 1st post please read i need feed
back thank u!!!!!
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Jerry
Mader wrote:
>
> i
would like to start off by saying this is my first post, i am
>
intrigued by your comments and keen observations. altought i think
>
instead of observations and enlighten about the the past we as a whole
>
shoud start a new "beat"
dear
jerry, i would prefer to continue a few observations and writings
about
those old guys who wrote back in the forties and fifties, i
sometimes
get some ideas from them and gain some understanding that
helps
me write myself. I like the idea of new
novels. I have a
personal
interest of writing past the one of explaining or expressing a
generation. I feel that that is a good thing to write
and should be
written
but i am getting old and with that i feel less identified with
any
particular generation, my friends and influences are
multigenerational
and now multnational. I think it is
time for a novel
about
how mean we as a people are and how in hell can we find love and
kindness
and why we should. i am also interested in exercise, exercise
of the
imagination, the mind, the heart and the soul.
the world is
flabby.
i quess that is my main observation on life.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 00:24:39 -0800
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Re: 1st post please read i need feed
back thank u!!!!!
Comments:
To: jjm@Tidalwave.net
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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Jerry
Mader wrote:
>
>
instead of reveling in the 40's and 50's and
> so
on that we explore new territory and give the 90's a new name make
>
the beat happen now...we all have intrest in the past and we
>
love it, we want to live in it.
Totally
untrue. Good writing is timeless. The great thing about the
beats
is that it sounds fresh even today. Reading Kerouac's _Some Of The
Dharma_
I've noticed how far ahead of his time Jack was...it's still
heady
stuff today.
>
play a cruel joke upon the 90's cosmic family, the
>
caravan driving , take the kids to baseball practice generation. we all
>
have something in common here but
reality has denied us this request.
What's
that supposed to mean? What's wrong with driving a Caravan and
taking
yr kids to baseball practice? That comment didn't make any sense
whatsoever.
Adrien
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 01:46:49 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "PoOka(the friendly ghost)"
<jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
Subject: what would Kerouac think....
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hey
folks,
based on what we know about Jack and
the rest of the lads, what
do you
think their comments would be on the 90s, especially "gen x." ?
Are we
producing huge amounts of inspiring literature and social
movements?
Or are we just wasting time designing webpages and charging
our
cell phones? (i have neither. apologies for being too generalizing).
Why is
it that we look to the past for inspiration? Could it be that many
of us
were born too late?
jason
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:49:06 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.OSF.3.91.971104014413.14724A-100000@turbo.kean.edu>
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I don't
think there's anything particularly amazing about this generation.
There's
a good book called Generations that talks about the cyclical
nature
of generations and relates the so-labled Generation X (even though
those
originally labled as such are now hitting their late-20s and 30s)
to
Hemingway's and Fitzgerald's Lost Generation.
American culture is also
stinkingly
nostalgic. I don't think this is
particularly characteristic
of this
generation but a product of the post-modern globalization (the
millenium
doesn't help) of culture. We react by
tightening up and
embracing
the bits of our culture that makes us unique.
Multi-culturalism,
The Brady Bunch Movie, Fame L.A., The Eagles, the
newfound
admiration of hair music and glam rock of the Eighties (oh how
soon we
forget Poison), Jon Bon Jovi's new album, aliens-are-evil movies,
disaster
movies, Ric Flair, the popularity of tradtional jazz, ESPN's
classic
games show; while sometimes its okay because (in the case of the
Beats)
greatness gets recognized and something worthwhile is learned.
Sometimes,
though, its pretty nausiating.
------------------
Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 09:26:01 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: 1st post please read i need feed
back thank u!!!!!
Comments:
To: Jerry Mader <jjm@TIDALWAVE.NET>
In-Reply-To: <345EE221.4D0C@Tidalwave.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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What's
wrong with driving a minivan and taking the kids to baseball
practice?
I couldn't help but be somewhat turned off by this post. Some
of us
are already out there, working a new "beat", except there's nothing
new
about it. Every generation has its own beat, and so what if its family
oriented
or whatever. I don't know if I can speak for anyone but myself,
but the
reason why I talk so much about JK and AG is because I wish my
life
could have been like theirs, not that I don't have my own beat going
on,
because I do but there's no harm in daydreaming...
Let the
kids dream.
~Nancy
On Tue,
4 Nov 1997, Jerry Mader wrote:
> i
would like to start off by saying this is my first post, i am
>
intrigued by your comments and keen observations. altought i think
>
instead of observations and enlighten about the the past we as a whole
>
shoud start a new "beat" (if u will), start going out and making
noise,
>
start to unravale the thoughts that are so twisted up in are minds that
>
are screaming to get out. instead of
reveling in the 40's and 50's and
> so
on that we explore new territory and give the 90's a new name make
>
the beat happen now,play a cruel joke upon the 90's cosmic family, the
>
caravan driving , take the kids to baseball practice generation. we all
>
have something in common here we all have intrest in the past and we
>
love it, we want to live in it. but reality has denied us this request.
> so
we must make anew. take out thoughts of the past and interpreat them
>
into the 90's skeem of things and start a new joyous worship in the game
>
that we know is life our life we have been granted this lets go mad in
> it
and start an new generation of mad cat digging the beat. i can see
> it
now young kids going out in there
parents sedan, making there way to
>
the local book store and pondering thoughts in a book written by "us"
>
buying this book and reaviling in its complexity yet its simplisity.
>
they start to use there mind and soon start another beat movement
>
appears and it is to never die, please lets let "IT" never die, let
us
>
all have hope that no one is to foget out heros kerouac, ginsberg,
>
cassidy (thank you jack) the mad man in the JUNK yard bill burroughs
>
(take it form him) let us spin wildly
out of control and upon our
>
finger tip[s let us spin a novel that
shall,
>
>
> "DEFINE A
GENERATION"
>
>
>
the end,
> in
need feed back to what i have gone to extreme to jote down upon the
>
page, please do not take away any credability acount of the spelling,
>
keep in mind i am young and still learing the ropes. keep it rolling
>
ladies and gents its out life let live it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
The Absence
of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 09:30:41 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.OSF.3.91.971104014413.14724A-100000@turbo.kean.edu>
Mime-Version:
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Exactly!!!
We were born too late. I have spent most of my life kicking my
fate in
the ass for this. I don't have webpage or a cellphone either and
I don't
care to have one.
We look
to the past for insiration because it is romantic, that whole Beat
movement
and sets the wheels in our heads in motion. Its not just the
Beats.
We take inspiration from everything around us, past or present.
On Tue,
4 Nov 1997, PoOka(the friendly ghost) wrote:
>
hey folks,
> based on what we know about Jack and
the rest of the lads, what
> do
you think their comments would be on the 90s, especially "gen x." ?
>
Are we producing huge amounts of inspiring literature and social
>
movements? Or are we just wasting time designing webpages and charging
>
our cell phones? (i have neither. apologies for being too generalizing).
>
Why is it that we look to the past for inspiration? Could it be that many
> of
us were born too late?
> jason
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 09:48:36 -0500
Reply-To: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@is8.nyu.edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.971104083335.24899A-100000@am.appstate.edu>
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I beg
to differ. I think that my generation is amazing. A lot of people
have
misconceptions about us because of the media but most of us are doinf
good stuff.
I'm a literacy tutor in an elementary school on the Lower East
Side.
I'm also a JumpStart corps member and I work with a little boy at a
HeadStart,
also on LES. There's lots of us out there, doing lots of things
to
effect change but you wouldn't know
this if you never interacted with
kids my
age. We aren't all mallrats and shiftless potheads, and might I
add,
your generation had quite a few potheads,too. I'm jaded but I'm not
cynical.
Life is the best that it has been. Our opportunities are the
best
and most of us take advantage of that.
Im
proud of my generation...
On Tue,
4 Nov 1997, Alex Howard wrote:
> I
don't think there's anything particularly amazing about this generation.
>
There's a good book called Generations that talks about the cyclical
>
nature of generations and relates the so-labled Generation X (even though
>
those originally labled as such are now hitting their late-20s and 30s)
> to
Hemingway's and Fitzgerald's Lost Generation.
American culture is also
> stinkingly
nostalgic. I don't think this is
particularly characteristic
> of
this generation but a product of the post-modern globalization (the
>
millenium doesn't help) of culture. We
react by tightening up and
>
embracing the bits of our culture that makes us unique.
>
Multi-culturalism, The Brady Bunch Movie, Fame L.A., The Eagles, the
>
newfound admiration of hair music and glam rock of the Eighties (oh how
>
soon we forget Poison), Jon Bon Jovi's new album, aliens-are-evil movies,
>
disaster movies, Ric Flair, the popularity of tradtional jazz, ESPN's
>
classic games show; while sometimes its okay because (in the case of the
>
Beats) greatness gets recognized and something worthwhile is learned.
>
Sometimes, though, its pretty nausiating.
>
>
------------------
>
Alex Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
>
kh14586@am.appstate.edu
P.O. Box 12149
>
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586
Boone, NC 28608
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 10:54:16 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: am i back?
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lost in
cyberspace, looking for my friends.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 15:02:01 UT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: am i back?
Marie!!! we've been here chanting and meditating upon
your return. welcome
back,
lost little beat!!!
sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Marie Countryman
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 1997 2:54 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: am i back?
lost in
cyberspace, looking for my friends.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 10:20:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: translation
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If
anyone can translate that German piece that Charles sent to the
list
through me, Pam wrote and pointed out that near the end there is
a
post/paragraph about Charles Plymell. I
think that is the one that
they
wanted translated. Please help if you
can.
Thanks.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:15:49 -0800
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
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List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: am i back?
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mc
And we
thought You were the one who had left!
js
Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
>
lost in cyberspace, looking for my friends.
> mc
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 11:15:13 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.95.971104094045.19359F-100000@is8.nyu.edu>
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> I
beg to differ. I think that my generation is amazing. A lot of people
>
have misconceptions about us because of the media but most of us are doinf
>
good stuff.
What I
mean is that I don't see this generation as particularly unique (as
a whole
I mean). This is the first one to come
of age completely in the
trench
of post-modernism (which is in itself unique), but as the
post-modern
world is unique, there is difficulty finding a way of dealing
with
it. The hippies, the beatniks, the
beats, the lost generation had
specific
and logical ways to deal with the world as it presented itself at
that
time. Post-modernism has led to such a
mish-mash of culture and
ideas, looking
to the past as a reaction to the anxious present in an
attempt
to understand everything that has become and is becoming of
culture
and society there is not _distinct_ way in which this generation
has
come upon to deal with and understand this era. I'm not saying there
aren't
a lot of worthwhile people and things happening (although I wonder
sometimes
when I look around), I'm just saying that has yet a particular
reaction
or distinguishing characteristic to emerge.
I do, however, see
great potential
as American culture has just in this century become
distinguishable
(or begun to be distinguishable) from European culture and
traditions. Once post-modernism becomes something that
can be understood
in
about 20 or 30 years, it may be an incredibly important time in
cultural
history. I think that American culture
since the turn of the
century
will become quite important to bring about that coalescence and
the
Beats in particular are a pivitol point in that development.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 12:52:43 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: tape spinning psychosis
MIME-Version:
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blatenly
off the beat en path
welcome
to my little bizarro land
poem
for 3 voices: a conversation in my head
my
body's walking the rest of me downtown
going
to get tapes
spin
them for my friends
someone
beat in here remembers a boheme
saying
'normal bias is all you need' in a weekend past.
NORMAL
BIAS??????? shrieks "FOR THAT CREW, NORMAL?????"
WHAT
PERVERSIONS R U UP TO????
(shut
up mom)
"er.....from
the corner on top shelf of bookcase:
normal
bias is all you need for spoken word recordings"
oh
well, yes, that is, yes.
all
taking place within a nanosecond, leaving me with raging brain.
normal
bias is all i need. yes.
btw:
knowing many folks here are not from the land of the GD and taping
etiquette.
usually in GD tapes as well with spoken word tapes with
others
on list, the deal is either a swap or $ for postage and a blank
tape
enclosed.
i
really like spreading the word, but my body likes to eat every 3 days
or so.
if i've
been testy, please excuse.
anyone
who receives a tape i would be wildly enthused if a tape of bias
equal
to what your tape is. all tapes looking space age generic are
multi/mother
tapes used in first run sound board stuff. music high bias
quality.
i think
this is the stuffiest i have ever been. it's hard when you can't
absorb
costs ..
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 11:54:38 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.OSF.3.96.971104110208.9541A-100000@am.appstate.edu>
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I
resent the fact that you seem to be discounting my generation. You can't
possibly
know what its like for us unless you are us. How old are you
anyway?
On Tue,
4 Nov 1997, Alex Howard wrote:
>
> I beg to differ. I think that my generation is amazing. A lot of people
>
> have misconceptions about us because of the media but most of us are doinf
>
> good stuff.
>
>
What I mean is that I don't see this generation as particularly unique (as
> a
whole I mean). This is the first one to
come of age completely in the
>
trench of post-modernism (which is in itself unique), but as the
>
post-modern world is unique, there is difficulty finding a way of dealing
>
with it. The hippies, the beatniks, the
beats, the lost generation had
>
specific and logical ways to deal with the world as it presented itself at
>
that time. Post-modernism has led to
such a mish-mash of culture and
>
ideas, looking to the past as a reaction to the anxious present in an
>
attempt to understand everything that has become and is becoming of
>
culture and society there is not _distinct_ way in which this generation
>
has come upon to deal with and understand this era. I'm not saying there
>
aren't a lot of worthwhile people and things happening (although I wonder
>
sometimes when I look around), I'm just saying that has yet a particular
>
reaction or distinguishing characteristic to emerge. I do, however, see
>
great potential as American culture has just in this century become
>
distinguishable (or begun to be distinguishable) from European culture and
>
traditions. Once post-modernism becomes
something that can be understood
> in
about 20 or 30 years, it may be an incredibly important time in
>
cultural history. I think that American
culture since the turn of the
>
century will become quite important to bring about that coalescence and
>
the Beats in particular are a pivitol point in that development.
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 12:03:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: 1st post please read i need feed
back thank u!!!!!
Comments:
To: jjm@Tidalwave.net
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>
instead of reveling in the 40's and 50's and
>so
on that we explore new territory and give the 90's a new name make
>the
beat happen now,play a cruel joke upon the 90's cosmic family, the
>caravan
driving , take the kids to baseball practice generation.
>so
we must make anew.
<kaching!> this, my friend, is the responsibility of
our
generation
of writers.. our generation being us youngins, the young
20somethings. our 90s cosmic family needs 10 times the
shaking than
the 50s
one. and, just as for jack and the
rest, we're confronted with
the
difficulty that the figureheads in the publishing world are not of
our
ilk, but of an older gen, coupled with the capitalist money making
histeriafrenzy;
books are made on marketability alone, and, while any
book is
potentially marketable to some group out there, publishing
sharks
want what caters to the very cosmifamily we, as the new writers,
are
trying to affect. and so the man be
against us, and, at the
slightest
sign of our interest in rocking their comfortable views, will
procede
post haste to get medieval on our asses.
and so, you see, we
need to
act now, no what-ifs.. are you a writer? let's go! strength in
numbers,
baby, strength in numbers. we have the
strong advantageous
force
of advanced communication on our side... we can use the fads to
our
advantage, the internet, the www, computers; we can self-publish
and
spread spread spread the mascufem love of our drive to
innerouteroversouldom... let's get groovin now and show the zombies
in
this
country what bitchin disco really is...
peace and
funkilicious
love
ty
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 12:10:13 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
MIME-Version:
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> based on what we know about Jack and
the rest of the lads, what
>do
you think their comments would be on the 90s, especially "gen x." ?
>Why
is it that we look to the past for inspiration? Could it be that
>many
>of
us were born too late?
i think you've answered your own
question. the very fact that we
look to
the past, us on this list, the kids who try to relive the 60's,
etc.,
is because the 90's are so fucked up.
no one knows what's going
on,
we're all lost, community globalization has come too quickly for us
to
assimilate, mass instant distanceless communication has turned us on
our
heads.. why? because we, especially in this country, maintain our
grip on
reality, on polarity, on what is and isn't, on fascism, on
outdated
principles, laws, perceptions.. it iis the very past we look
back to
that is responsible for our confusion in this new world.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 12:20:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
Comments:
To: nbb203@is8.nyu.edu
MIME-Version:
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>.
I'm a literacy tutor in an elementary school on the Lower East
>Side.
I'm also a JumpStart corps member and I work with a little boy at
>a
>HeadStart,
also on LES. Life is the best that it
has been. Our
>opportunities
are the
>best
and most of us take advantage of that.
>Im
proud of my generation...
one of the main problems with our
generation is its strangle hold
on
idealism. it's disgusting the way we cling
to bullshit
brainwashings
like environmentalism, and "making the world a better
place,"
and all of the smarmy shit you can see any given day on any
american
college campus. like, puke me now.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 12:31:51 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Ferlinghetti article
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.OSF.3.95.971104115346.18032A-100000@is8.nyu.edu>
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(text
of today's USA feature story on Larry Ferlinghetti. Copyright 1997
Gannett
Inc. WWW.usatoday.com)
Beat
poet Ferlinghetti on the road again
SAN FRANCISCO - With the
deaths this year of
authors William
Burroughs and Allen
Ginsberg, it seemed like
the end of the road for
the Beats.
But in a dowdy book shop
here on a busy North Beach
street corner, poet and
political
activist Lawrence
Ferlinghetti is carrying the Beat
legacy into the 21st
century.
And that legacy is
brighter than ever. City Lights
publishing, a division
of the bookstore
that Ferlinghetti
founded in 1953, is in the
forefront of avant-garde
publishing. Courses in
Beat literature are
staples on college campuses
nationwide. New
anthologies of Beat
writings fill bookstore
shelves. And a movie
version of Jack
Kerouac's On the Road is in
the works.
Even the recent
resurgence of coffee bar culture
and poetry slams has its
roots in the Beats,
says Jack Nachbar,
professor of popular culture at
Bowling Green State
University. "The
Beats are getting
publicity because of the deaths
of some of the writers
or the anniversary
of certain publications.
That resonates with
boomers who read those
guys and were excited
by them."
This iconization of his
friends brings a bemused
twinkle to
Ferlinghetti's icy blue eyes. To
him, the writings of
Kerouac, Ginsberg, Burroughs,
Gary Snyder et al. were
not isolated
examples of literary
rebellion. "The Beats were
just a phase of
dissident literature," says
Ferlinghetti, 78, from
his office on the
bookstore's top floor.
"Look at Baudelaire, Poe
and Whitman. There's a long line of outsider
literature."
The Beats' outlaw image
captured the American
imagination, he says.
"Kerouac and (Neal)
Cassidy were the
prototypical American anti-heroes.
Had Cassidy lived in the
19th
century, he'd have
ridden a horse. But in the 20th
century, his hot rod was
his horse. The
idea of being on the
road was part of that
tradition."
Ferlinghetti will
forever be associated with the
Beat camp, but his place
in American letters
goes beyond that, says
Doug Brinkley, professor of
history at the
University of New
Orleans and Beat era
expert. "He was the
progenitor, along with
(poet) Kenneth Rexroth,
of the San Francisco
poetry renaissance.
"By opening City
Lights, he attracted hobo
wanderers, Zen
Buddhists, disenfranchised
poets, dissidents and
political exiles to San
Francisco, and it became
the place to be for
alternative living and
multiculturalness."
Ferlinghetti didn't set
out to be a social
revolutionary or a Beat.
"I got associated with them
because I published them. I was a bohemian, an
artist. I wore a
beret."
He picked up the knack
for both painting and beret
wearing while living in
Paris on the
G.I. Bill after the war. He had joined the Navy
in
1941 and commanded a
ship during the
Normandy invasion. In
1951, he married Selden
Kirby-Smith, an American
artist, and
they moved to San
Francisco. Ferlinghetti and
Kirby-Smith, who
divorced in 1976, had
two children.
Disenchanted by his
wartime experiences,
Ferlinghetti got caught up in the underground
liberal fervor of the
time. City Lights became its
headquarters, and
Ferlinghetti its poetic
voice of dissent.
Today, the walls of City
Lights are still hung with
dissident posters; one
declares "Death to
the State."
Upstairs, Ferlinghetti's office is hung
with posters and photos
of Beat writers,
including a picture of
Ferlinghetti with a gaunt
Ginsberg. "It was
his last photo taken in
San Francisco," he
says.
Ginsberg died of liver
cancer in April. A heart
attack claimed Burroughs
in August. "It's
been a sad year for
me," Ferlinghetti says of his
departed friends. His
fellow poet is a
particular loss.
"In the poetic firmament in the
sky, there's a big hole
since Ginsberg died."
Ferlinghetti's name will
forever be linked with
Ginsberg's because City
Lights published
Howl in 1956.
Ferlinghetti knew the
epic poem containing
references to drug use
and homosexuality
would be controversial.
"After reading it, I
approached the American
Civil Liberties
Union, and they
committed themselves to defending
us."
When Howl was brought to
court on obscenity
charges, Ferlinghetti
won the case.
"The municipal court in San Francisco decided if
the book had the
slightest redeeming
social significance, it
wasn't obscene."
Ferlinghetti states with
pride that the Howl case set
a precedent for the
publication of other
controversial works,
including those by Henry
Miller and Jean Genet.
In his own poems,
Ferlinghetti never shied away
from hot-button issues.
Tyrannus Nix?
(1969) blasted President
Nixon for the war in
Vietnam. It established
him as the political
Beat.
"His poetry is
underrated," says Brinkley, who
believes that
Ferlinghetti remains in the
shadow of Ginsberg.
"He's a top-tier poet of 20th
century America. He can
be talked
about in the same breath as Carl Sandburg for
having a deadpan
honesty."
Ferlinghetti is still
producing politically charged
poetry. His latest
collection, A Far
Rockaway of the Heart, was published in May as a
companion to his famed A
Coney
Island of the Mind
(1958). The new poem History Is
Made . . . contains the
lines "A lot of
genocides and massacres/maybe never really
happened/so the record
should be corrected/
like the Holocaust or
the rape of Cuba and
Nicaragua or Cambodia or
Timor."
"I was a Fidelista in the '60s and a Sandinista in
the '80s. I guess I'm a
just tourist of
revolutions," says
the self-proclaimed anarchist.
True to his politics,
Ferlinghetti believes that
the USA is in need of
revolution now. "There
doesn't seem to be any
rebellious voice raised. To
be political is seen as
uncool."
He goes so far as to
compare the '90s to the '50s.
"It's like the
McCarthy era; there's a
pressure for
conformity."
And he considers the
computer revolution the new
Cold War. Just as we
fought the
"inhuman"
forces of communism in the '50s, we're
fighting the
"inhuman" forces of
technology today, he
says.
Although City Lights has
a Web site, Ferlinghetti
is resisting the cyber
lifestyle. "In the
'60s, the slogan was 'Be
Here Now.' Today, with
cell phones and the
Internet and the
World Wide Web, the slogan
is 'Be Somewhere Else
Now.' "
For that reason,
Ferlinghetti thinks the spirit of
the Beats is needed now
more than ever.
"They're the only
rebellion around." The most
rebellious voices today
are feminist and
Third World authors,
particularly Latin Americans,
he says. "Whitey
doesn't have a
revolution of his own,
so he has to latch on to
others'
revolutions."
With City Lights
publishing, Ferlinghetti aims to
fulfill his mission:
fomenting
international
dissidence. So it's no surprise that
the fall catalog lists
books by several
feminist and Latin
American authors. After all, he
says, "you can't
publish a revolution if
there isn't one."
By Cathy Hainer, USA
TODAY
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 12:34:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
Comments:
To: Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@umit.maine.edu>
In-Reply-To: <msg1167517.thr-72251487.55d4a82@umit.maine.edu>
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How
dare you attack my idealism? And you know what, our idealism is
working.
I dare you to go to the second grade classroom where I work and
tell
those kids that nothing will make a difference in their lives. Just
because
you are jaded and cynical, doesn't mean that that view is
representative
of our generation. I feel sorry for people like you.
If you
aren't part of the solution,you're part of the problem, so keep you
mouth
shut if you have nothing worthwhile to say. (I'm guessing that you
are one
of those people that likes to blame everybody for everything
except
yourself...grow up)
On Tue,
4 Nov 1997, Tyson Ouellette wrote:
>
>. I'm a literacy tutor in an elementary school on the Lower East
>
>Side. I'm also a JumpStart corps member and I work with a little boy at
>
>a
>
>HeadStart, also on LES. Life is the
best that it has been. Our
>
>opportunities are the
>
>best and most of us take advantage of that.
>
>Im proud of my generation...
>
> one of the main problems with our
generation is its strangle hold
> on
idealism. it's disgusting the way we
cling to bullshit
>
brainwashings like environmentalism, and "making the world a better
>
place," and all of the smarmy shit you can see any given day on any
>
american college campus. like, puke me
now.
>
>
>
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 09:36:09 -0800
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
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Babble,
babble, babble!
We were
all born too late for somethings, too early for others.
Isn't
there a chat room for tortured Gen X'rs to go to to moan about
their
mistimed births? Or some other list: Angst-L, Po Me Born too
Late-L,
Would Jack have had Pierced Nipples-L . . .
JS
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 11:40:54 -0600
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From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
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> one of the main problems with our
generation is its strangle hold
> on
idealism. it's disgusting the way we
cling to bullshit
>
brainwashings like environmentalism, and "making the world a better
>
place," and all of the smarmy shit you can see any given day on any
>
american college campus. like, puke me
now.
gee, i
love this, the thinking, the rich prose, it makes me quiver. Here
but for
a few bad habits go i. shit, this is
just so cool. i hate
everything
too. all these people spending there
goddam time with the
worthless
no good world, they aught to wake up, it isn't cool.why do
they
bother to say this environmental stuff, i am not going to think
they
are cool no matter what they do.
love
p
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 12:45:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
Comments:
To: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
In-Reply-To: <345F5D09.3BA@pacbell.net>
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Yeah,
isn't there one? I'm tired of gen x'ers giving my generation bad
name.
Our generation is so cool that we don't need some label to establish
us...
On Tue,
4 Nov 1997, James Stauffer wrote:
>
Babble, babble, babble!
>
> We
were all born too late for somethings, too early for others.
>
>
Isn't there a chat room for tortured Gen X'rs to go to to moan about
>
their mistimed births? Or some other list: Angst-L, Po Me Born too
>
Late-L, Would Jack have had Pierced Nipples-L . . .
>
> JS
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK