=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 11:47:53 -0600
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From: "Donald G. Jr. Lee"
<donlee@COMP.UARK.EDU>
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.OSF.3.95.971104115346.18032A-100000@is8.nyu.edu>
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Boy,
these people sure are beatin' up on you buddy!
You hit a nerve, I
think. My own take is that it never hurts to be
willing to question
oneself,
and since I don't consider myself spokesman for my generation,
particularly,
I feel free to question them, too...amen to you, Brother,
for
bravery! Carry on!
Don Lee
Fayetteville,
Ark.
"Only
the shallow know themselves."
--Oscar Wilde
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 12:42:50 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
Comments:
To: nbb203@is8.nyu.edu
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>How
dare you attack my idealism? And you know what, our idealism is
>working.
I feel sorry for people like you.
>If
you aren't part of the solution,you're part of the problem, so keep
>you
>mouth
shut if you have nothing worthwhile to say. (I'm guessing that you
>are
one of those people that likes to blame everybody for everything
>except
yourself...grow up)
um.. methinks i smell a
misunderstanding. maybe my brevity and
manner
of phrasing gave a false impression of what i was suggesting. i
applaud
the fact that you're helping those kids, and i wouldn't try to
deter
you from it. hey, i love kids myself,
and i hang around with
them
and do what i can for them. my comment
wasn't directed at your
idealism,
i was only using your comment as a reference point in this
discussion. i sincerely apologize if my intentions
seemed otherwise.
i do, however, disagree with your
solution/problem theory. and
your
suggestion about having something worthwhile to say.. when people
say
that they usually mean if you're not part of my agenda, and don't
have
anything to say that promotes my interests, then shutup. ALL
things
are worthwhile, a person can learn something from anything if he
cultivates
even the slighest amount of insight... and so, even the
remarks
of a seeming asshole like myself can be beneficial.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 12:54:09 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Ferlinghetti article
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.971104122033.27489A-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>
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Hi...I
havent been reading this list the last two weeks, but when I read
this
article on Ferlinghetti this morning, I thought I'd post it and
start a
thread.
Ferlinghetti's
sentiments seem to be that there is no revolutionary
spirit
anymore, that much of the Beat spirit has been lost and that we
are now
(as much or more than in the 50's) a society of conformity. He
also is
quoted as saying the beats were "just a phase of dissident
literature". That we are in need of a new
revolution. He seems to imply
that
this generation may be lacking in either the spirit, incentive or
ideas
for a revolution.
The
article points out that the City Lights fall catalog includes a lot
of
Latin American authors, and other international authors, seemingly
because
there isnt enough "revolutionary" literature being written these
days in
this country.
Is
Larry right? Maybe the current
re-surgence of interest in the Beats
is
simple nostalgia for days that have gone by, for old revolutions and
old
glory days. For old soldiers who are
now finally dying off. Accepting
this
thesis, what then is the relevanceof beat
writing
and/or beat philosophy in current times, when we are seemingly
permanently
drawn into a world of materialism and conformity?
The
social problems that sparked earlier revolutions arent as apparent
anymore. There is still racism, sexism et al...there
is even still
censorship...but
much of it is underground or closeted.
If the
Beats were just a "dissident phase" and the resurgence
"nostalgia",
how do we relate these writings and authors to modern times?
Do we
need another revolution?
Richard
W. (rwallner@capaccess.org)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 12:45:36 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
Comments:
To: stauffer@pacbell.net
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>Babble,
babble, babble!
>We
were all born too late for somethings, too early for others.
>Isn't
there a chat room for tortured Gen X'rs to go to to moan about
>their
mistimed births? Or some other list: Angst-L, Po Me Born too
>Late-L,
Would Jack have had Pierced Nipples-L . . .
haha! rotflmao.. agreement.. seems like
that gen-x mistimed birth
garbage
is just an excuse for dissatisfaction and an inability to cope.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 11:52:09 -0600
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "Donald G. Jr. Lee"
<donlee@COMP.UARK.EDU>
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
In-Reply-To: <msg1167521.thr-72251487.55d4a82@umit.maine.edu>
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> one of the main problems with our
generation is its strangle hold
> on
idealism. it's disgusting the way we
cling to bullshit
>
brainwashings like environmentalism, and "making the world a better
>
place," and all of the smarmy shit you can see any given day on any
>
american college campus. like, puke me
now.
Especially
when it's all sponsored by Exxon and Wal-Mart...
Don
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 09:52:34 -0800
Reply-To: Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>
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List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: Ferlinghetti article
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Glad
You are with us Richard
In good
humor:
Signed:
The Clique (Are we ready to laugh at
ourselves or what):
leon
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 11:59:06 -0600
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "Donald G. Jr. Lee"
<donlee@COMP.UARK.EDU>
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
Comments:
To: Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.OSF.3.95.971104123027.28734A-100000@is8.nyu.edu>
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Dear
Nancy,
You
seem to be someone who is doing a lot of good work and changing
people's
lives in real & lasting way. No one
with any goddamn sense would
criticize
that work. However, and I'm sure you
would agree with me, a
general
critique of the Status Quo is much an essential plank of the Beat
mentality
as anything, and probably in fact is the most important plank
(IMHO). So in the name of peace (thinking here of
the incessant boring
public
flaming over the Kerouac Estate recently), doncha think these young
cats
are just carrying the ol' Kerouac/Thoreau dissident torch?
Namaste,
Don Lee
Fayetteville,
Ark.
"Only
the shallow know themselves."
--Oscar Wilde
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 12:59:00 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: my big mouth
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jeese... what did i do? coud somon pease remofe my foot fwom my
mouf.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 13:06:28 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
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>(IMHO). So in the name of peace (thinking here of
the incessant boring
>public
flaming over the Kerouac Estate recently), doncha think these
>young
>cats
are just carrying the ol' Kerouac/Thoreau dissident torch?
thank you, friend, that's what i was
attempting. thanks for having
the
words in your mouth to say what i obviously didn't manage to get
out of
my own... i think i need a nap.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 12:13:38 -0600
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "Donald G. Jr. Lee"
<donlee@COMP.UARK.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ferlinghetti article
Comments:
To: Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.971104123826.27489C-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>
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On Tue,
4 Nov 1997, Richard Wallner wrote:
>
Ferlinghetti's sentiments seem to be that there is no revolutionary
>
spirit anymore, that much of the Beat spirit has been lost and that we
>
are now (as much or more than in the 50's) a society of conformity.
I
really wonder. I just turned 35 over
the weekend, and it seems to me
that
the pressure to conform just picks up as you get older, to the point
where
you finally start to question your own resistance to putting on a
tie and
going in to punch the ol' clock. Even
though I clearly remember
going
1/2 insane doing that just a few years ago.
I went back to college
to get
out of that rut, and am now about to graduate and go back into it,
I
guess, unless somebody has a better suggestion.
> Is
Larry right? Maybe the current
re-surgence of interest in the Beats
> is
simple nostalgia for days that have gone by, for old revolutions and
>
old glory days. For old soldiers who
are now finally dying off.
I
betcha nothing is ever "just" anything, so it's not "simple
nostalgia."
Granted
that has to be a big part of it, but still--the Beats were trying
really
hard to avoid getting sucked into the Materialistic Post WWII
Eisenhower
brainsuck weltanschaaung. Nowadays we
have the
post-Reagan/Bush
credit card fatalism, our most recent youth movement
(cleverly
co-opted and marketed by Babylon, it never really stood a
chance)
the grunge Gen Xers already a thing of the past...Michel Foucault
talks
about the Critique of Resistance, in which he says: Resist. Even
if you
know it'll never work, resist. Winning
is not even the issue.
Resist
the Power Grid. And if you come to
think that the Grid even
accomodates
resistance (by marketing it on MTV), then do like the
Surrealists
did, and resist in ways that make no f**kin' sense...like
Sisyphus
and the Rock. As Camus said, We Must
Imagine Sisyphus Happy. So
just
don't give in...
>Do
we need another Revolution?
The
Revolution must come inside yr own head.
Cast Off Your Old Tired
Ethics. Be a Crazy Dumbsaint of the Mind.
"Hearken,
amigos, to the olden message: it's
neither what you think it
is, nor
what you think it isn't, but an elder matter, uncompounded and
clear--"
--Kerouac, VISIONS OF GERARD
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 13:18:47 -0500
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From: Marlene Giraud <M84M79@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
In a
message dated 97-11-04 12:35:46 EST, you write:
<< And you know what, our idealism is
working. I dare you to go to the second grade
classroom where I work and >>
and
what do you mean "our?"
i
believe i'd be considered with those among generation x fame, and i don't
feel
idealistic or a need to get up and "save the world"
i only
ask for a moment to catch a glance of the sky before it rains--all
pregnant
and swollen, a cup of coffee and a menthol cigarette. what else is
there?
~~marlene
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 13:37:01 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Marlene Giraud <M84M79@AOL.COM>
Subject: we have a chat room!
dear
listees,
awhile
ago someone posted all the beat web pages and so forth, along with
that
came the connection to the beat generation chat room. since then i've
peeped
my head in to see if any of you go there. i'm sad to report i haven't
seen a
single soul. is it that no ones know how to get there, or that no one
on the
list likes chatrooms. i love our e-mailing list, but i'd like to chat
with
fellow beat lovers and scholars. so, if someone would be kind enough to
post
that link again, i'd really appreciate it. and if you all hate
chatrooms,
just let me know and i'll quit whining. Take it easy.
~~Marlene
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 15:20:11 -0500
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From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.OSF.3.95.971104115346.18032A-100000@is8.nyu.edu>
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On Tue,
4 Nov 1997, Nancy B Brodsky wrote:
> I
resent the fact that you seem to be discounting my generation. You can't
>
possibly know what its like for us unless you are us. How old are you
>
anyway?
>
I'm 21
years old, a senior majoring in American Studies struggling to find
a
competent answer to "Is there something unique about America? If so,
what?"
that is the big Final Essay Question In The Sky for anyone involved
with
American Studies. I think Modernism and
post-modernism has the
potential
to be a very crucial and defining time in American history.
Post-modernism
is very shaky and doesn't have a name because there isn't
anything
unifying about it to give it a name, much like, I feel, this
generation
as the demographic is the first to spend its entire life in
the
post-modern era. I don't like including myself under the label
because,
like post-modernism, it doesn't mean or denote anything.
>
> What I mean is that I don't see this generation as particularly unique (as
>
> a whole I mean). This is the first
one to come of age completely in the
>
> trench of post-modernism (which is in itself unique), but as the
>
> post-modern world is unique, there is difficulty finding a way of dealing
>
> with it. The hippies, the
beatniks, the beats, the lost generation had
>
> specific and logical ways to deal with the world as it presented itself at
>
> that time. Post-modernism has led
to such a mish-mash of culture and
>
> ideas, looking to the past as a reaction to the anxious present in an
>
> attempt to understand everything that has become and is becoming of
>
> culture and society there is not _distinct_ way in which this generation
>
> has come upon to deal with and understand this era. I'm not saying there
>
> aren't a lot of worthwhile people and things happening (although I wonder
>
> sometimes when I look around), I'm just saying that has yet a particular
>
> reaction or distinguishing characteristic to emerge. I do, however, see
>
> great potential as American culture has just in this century become
>
> distinguishable (or begun to be distinguishable) from European culture and
>
> traditions. Once post-modernism
becomes something that can be understood
>
> in about 20 or 30 years, it may be an incredibly important time in
>
> cultural history. I think that
American culture since the turn of the
>
> century will become quite important to bring about that coalescence and
>
> the Beats in particular are a pivitol point in that development.
------------------
Alex Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State University
kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 16:46:24 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
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ok all
you pikers posers weasels and whiners
i have
consulted with my alter personality, who in another life was a
therapist.
half of
you should walk as weirdly as possible to monty python's arguement
clinic
do not wait a moment, asap mon cheris!
the
rest go stand and rot in the verbal abuse clinic.
there
now.
any one
with newly diagnosed prostrate problems?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 22:05:29 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: jean-ory <jean-ory@ALTRANET.FR>
Subject: Naropa Inst and Allen G.
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A
tribute to Allen Ginsberg at :
http://www.naropa.edu/ginsberg.html
Cheers
Jean
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 16:41:32 +0000
Reply-To: randyr@southeast.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is
<randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>
From: randy royal
<randyr@MAILHUB.JAXNET.COM>
Subject: usatoday ferlinghetti article
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sorry
if this was already mentioned, but there is a article in
usatoday
on the web if you do not have it in
paper @
http://www.usatoday.com/life/dcovtue.htm
they
mention the otr movie in there as well....
enjoy
randy
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 16:09:11 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: buk tapes
Comments:
To: Adrien Begrand <vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca>
In-Reply-To: <345EDBC7.2FBE@sk.sympatico.ca>
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Adrien
(and any other buk fans:
Facets
Multimedia Inc. (1517 West Fullerton Ave., Chicago, IL 60614; 312
281-9075)
lists the _Charles Bukowski Tapes_ (1987; 240 min.) as available
for
purchase: "It's a gem . . . an outrageously stimulating and unnerving
all-night
drinking session with a gutter eloquent barroom philosopher who
has
made his sould your own. . . . One of the most intimate, revelatory
and
unsparing glimpses any film or video has ever given us of a writer's
life
and personality," raved Michael Wilmington in _The Los Angeles
Times_.
Directed by Barbet Schroeder (_Barfly_), a 4-hour video portrait
of the
renegade poet of contemporary literature.
Now
comes the bad news: purchase price--$100.
Cordially,
Mike
Skau
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 15:18:22 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jorgiana S Jake
<jorgiana@U.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: buk tapes
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.ULT.3.96.971104160151.18224A-100000@cwis.unomaha.edu>
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Wanted
to let you all know (although many of you probably already
know!)...I
was at the used record store, oops, used CD store...sorry.
COOL
Buk CD, $25, with a great cover...the Budweiser label transposed to
say
"Bukowski"...anyone seen or heard it? Should I invest (poor college
student,
y'know).
Jorgiana
On Tue,
4 Nov 1997, Michael Skau wrote:
>
Adrien (and any other buk fans:
>
Facets Multimedia Inc. (1517 West Fullerton Ave., Chicago, IL 60614; 312
>
281-9075) lists the _Charles Bukowski Tapes_ (1987; 240 min.) as available
>
for purchase: "It's a gem . . . an outrageously stimulating and unnerving
>
all-night drinking session with a gutter eloquent barroom philosopher who
>
has made his sould your own. . . . One of the most intimate, revelatory
>
and unsparing glimpses any film or video has ever given us of a writer's
>
life and personality," raved Michael Wilmington in _The Los Angeles
>
Times_. Directed by Barbet Schroeder (_Barfly_), a 4-hour video portrait
> of
the renegade poet of contemporary literature.
>
Now comes the bad news: purchase price--$100.
>
Cordially,
>
Mike Skau
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 15:19:48 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jorgiana S Jake
<jorgiana@U.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: buk tapes
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.ULT.3.96.971104160151.18224A-100000@cwis.unomaha.edu>
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Sorry,
my bad...shoulda included this in last message from bothersome
me...maybe
we should chip in, buy it, then copy the hell out of it for all
those
of us on this list who are interested.
Seems brilliant to me...
Jorgiana
On Tue,
4 Nov 1997, Michael Skau wrote:
>
Adrien (and any other buk fans:
>
Facets Multimedia Inc. (1517 West Fullerton Ave., Chicago, IL 60614; 312
>
281-9075) lists the _Charles Bukowski Tapes_ (1987; 240 min.) as available
>
for purchase: "It's a gem . . . an outrageously stimulating and unnerving
>
all-night drinking session with a gutter eloquent barroom philosopher who
>
has made his sould your own. . . . One of the most intimate, revelatory
>
and unsparing glimpses any film or video has ever given us of a writer's
>
life and personality," raved Michael Wilmington in _The Los Angeles
>
Times_. Directed by Barbet Schroeder (_Barfly_), a 4-hour video portrait
> of
the renegade poet of contemporary literature.
>
Now comes the bad news: purchase price--$100.
>
Cordially,
>
Mike Skau
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 16:24:06 -0800
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Re: buk tapes
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1.0
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Michael
Skau wrote:
>
>
Adrien (and any other buk fans:
>
Facets Multimedia Inc. (1517 West Fullerton Ave., Chicago, IL 60614; 312
>
281-9075) lists the _Charles Bukowski Tapes_ (1987; 240 min.) as available
>
for purchase: "It's a gem . . . an outrageously stimulating and unnerving
>
all-night drinking session with a gutter eloquent barroom philosopher who
>
has made his sould your own. . . . One of the most intimate, revelatory
>
and unsparing glimpses any film or video has ever given us of a writer's
>
life and personality," raved Michael Wilmington in _The Los Angeles
>
Times_. Directed by Barbet Schroeder (_Barfly_), a 4-hour video portrait
> of
the renegade poet of contemporary literature.
>
Now comes the bad news: purchase price--$100.
>
Cordially,
>
Mike Skau
Well,
hang on there a sec...
The
reason I posted the question is because the Sundance Channel is
showing
the entire four hours on Nov. 28 and 30. Fortunately for myself
I can
see it via satellite dish, hopefully some of you down south have
access
on cable...I don't know about the availability of Sundance around
the
States.
I did
some internet searching a short while ago and found out that tv
stations
in France used the short interview segments with Buk as a
sign-off,
instead of playing the national anthem like we do in North
America.
Now that's respect!
Adrien
ps for
anyone who does have Sundance channel, Nov. 28 is a big day full
of
great beat films...I got ahold of some info on what they're showing:
Life
and Times of Allen Ginsberg, The
Directed
by Jerry Aaronson
Distributed
by First Run Features
1993
Director
Jerry Aronson's portrait of Beat poetry's legendary
grandfather,
Allen Ginsberg, traces the writer's life through its many
diverse
stages, including his years as a Columbia University student, to
a
counterculture legend, to a hippie, to a Buddhist. Included are
interviews
with those people best qualified to comment: Norman Mailer,
William
Burroughs, Joan Baez and Dr. Timothy Leary. NR (adult content,
adult
language)
Poet On
the Lower East Side, A: a DocudiaryOn Allen Ginsberg
Directed
by Gyula Gazdag
Distributed
by Gyula Gazdag
1996
Favorably
received at the 1996 Venice Film Festival, director Gyula
Gazdag's
documentary presents four uncensored days with the late poet,
Allen
Ginsberg, as he meanders around New York City answering questions,
reading
poetry and making observations about life as he goes about his
daily
routines. TV14 (adult content, adult language, brief nudity)
(1:36)
Last
Beat Movie, The
Directed
by Renee Tajima-pena
Distributed
by Showtime Networks Inc.
In this
Sundance Channel Original Documentary, director Renee
Tajima-Pena,
whose My America (or Honk If You Love Buddha) won the
Sundance
Festival's Cinematography Award, travels across America seeking
the
people, influences and ""on-the-road"" spirit of the Beat
Generation.
TBD (adult content) (:30)
Charles
Bukowski Tapes, The
Directed
by Barbet Schroeder
Distributed
by Circle Associates, Ltd.
1985
An
unhurried chat with Charles Bukowski reveals his views and his world.
In this
extended interview, split into fifty-two segments, Bukowski
drinks,
smokes, talks about bars, cities, art, the human condition and
everything
else. Barbet Schroeder directed this 1985 film. TV14 (adult
content,
adult language, mild violence) (4:00)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 18:13:39 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sad Enigma <Sadenigma@AOL.COM>
Subject: empty streets and ancient coughs
hi, i'm
new to the list and stuff. i'm 18 and
i've never had a real job and
i never
plan on getting one. i never plan on
anything really. i make movies
when i
can and that's occcupational i guess.
and i just thought i'd say hi
and a
small introduction of sorts, have a
nice night and a happy halloween
<3
chad
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 18:55:57 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: generation x
Hey,
does anyone know where I can find the generation x list?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 19:35:28 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
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You
call this an argument. Why, you
haven't been arguing at all.
Marie
Countryman wrote:
> ok
all you pikers posers weasels and whiners
> i
have consulted with my alter personality, who in another life was a
>
therapist.
>
half of you should walk as weirdly as possible to monty python's arguement
>
clinic do not wait a moment, asap mon cheris!
>
the rest go stand and rot in the verbal abuse clinic.
>
there now.
>
any one with newly diagnosed prostrate problems?
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 19:40:31 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Every 20 years
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Well,
it is interesting. Every 20 years it
comes around again. In
the
70's it was 50's music. In the 80's it
was 60's and now disco,
70's is
the fad. Hmmmm, think what it will be
like next time when
they
get the 80's around again. Or what
about in the next when they
look
back to the 90's for the cool stuff.
You are making it now. It
is hard
to see the big picture. " Right here right now, there is no
other
place I'd rather be. Right here right
now. "
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 18:45:57 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Donald G. Jr. Lee"
<donlee@COMP.UARK.EDU>
Subject: Re: empty streets and ancient coughs
Comments:
To: Sad Enigma <Sadenigma@AOL.COM>
In-Reply-To:
<971104181240_1894894343@mrin45.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue,
4 Nov 1997, Sad Enigma wrote:
>
hi, i'm new to the list and stuff. i'm
18 and i've never had a real job and
> i
never plan on getting one. i never plan
on anything really. i make movies
>
when i can and that's occcupational i guess.
and i just thought i'd say hi
>
and a small introduction of sorts,
have a nice night and a happy halloween
>
Sounds
to me you're practicing Be Here Now stuff, plus well hell I can
only
applaud your opposition to "real" jobs. To heck w/ 'em...
Make
movies! You seen "Pull My
Daisy"? Kerouac narrates. check it out!
Don Lee
Fayetteville,
Ark.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 19:43:43 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: generation x
Those
of you who are new to the list might like to know that the
"generation
x" topic has surfaced several times on the list over the
last
two years. If the responses seem a
little intemperate, it's
probably
because those discussions got a bit out of hand. While it's
fine to
compare generation x and the beat generation, we wouldn't want
the
discussion to stray too far from the scope of the list.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 18:47:26 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Donald G. Jr. Lee"
<donlee@COMP.UARK.EDU>
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
Comments:
To: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
In-Reply-To: <345FBF50.8BDE6911@scsn.net>
MIME-Version:
1.0
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On Tue,
4 Nov 1997, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
You call this an argument. Why, you
haven't been arguing at all.
>
This
reminds me of the Humpty Dumpty conversation in ALICE. Don't know
why. Gotta look it up...
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 20:04:00 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: The Plymell site
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http://www.fto.de/fthp/gassner/jk_mesdd2.html
That is
the site that Charles wanted to see if someone could translate.
If I
can figure out what has Charles mentioned in it, I will post it
later. This is the url. If you can read this language, please
translate
the paragraph that mentions Charles Plymell and either send it
to him,
post it here, or send it to me and I will send it to Charles.
Thanks.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 20:01:25 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Donahue <donahujl@BC.EDU>
Subject: the italian judge
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hello. i am new to this list, and i come now with a
specific
intention.
my name
is james donahue, and i am a graduate student
in
english at boston college, where i also teach a
section
of freshman writing seminar. i am
structuring
an
assignment using kerouacs 'letter to an italian
judge'
(goode blonde and others). in this
letter (for
those
who may not know), kerouac responds/replies to a
certain
judge censuring his novel, 'the
subterraneans.' what i am looking for is something
from
the judge - a transcript, copy, report,
summation,
paraphrasing, etc. in other words,
anything
that will serve as a go-between from the
novel
to kerouacs response.
i thank
in advance anyone who may be able to help.
responses
can be sent to the list, or i can be replied
to
directly at donahujl@moa.bc.edu or
jadonahu@lynx.dac.neu.edu
(both systems are case
sensitive).
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 20:10:26 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Donahue <donahujl@BC.EDU>
Subject: Re: generation x
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997110419483107@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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i dont
know much about the discussion on this point,
but ill
make it brief. (hell, i am new here.)
i
wouldnt compare the two generations. i
think thats
because
isee generation x, and i dont see a point.
i
just
taught a week on this topic - generation x
-
(freshman writing at boston college), and the conclusion
was
that generation x is directionless as in without a
purpose,
as opposed to directionless as a response to
coventional
notions of direction. who knows, maybe
a
few
decades will change that (or at least a view of
that -
i know from experience that scholars can argue
a cause
or "point" for anything).
in
other words, i dont see why a big fuss should be
made,
all movements are similar, all are different.
jim
donahue
On Tue,
4 Nov 1997, Bill Gargan wrote:
>
Those of you who are new to the list might like to know that the
>
"generation x" topic has surfaced several times on the list over the
>
last two years. If the responses seem a
little intemperate, it's
>
probably because those discussions got a bit out of hand. While it's
>
fine to compare generation x and the beat generation, we wouldn't want
>
the discussion to stray too far from the scope of the list.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 20:20:46 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Well, I found Plymell
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I
finally found Charles and on the off chance that someone can and will
translate,
I copied the article/column from that point on down. It
appears
to be an interview or something with THE MAN.
____________________
Begin something here __________________________
Ein
weiteres Glanzst|ck des Stvrer Nr. 13 - ein Essay von Franz Dobler
|ber
Social Beat.
(Nachdruck
einer Sendung vom SWF, Okt. 95.) Dobler verhehlt nicht seine
Sympathien
f|r die
Social-Beat-Bewegung:
"Klingt doch ganz spannend - und das ist es auch."
Dobler
sieht aber auch
die
Gefahren: "Was ich hier positiv sehe, weist aber auch schon auf die
Klippe
hin - hinter der die
kunstlose
Sprache zur naiven wird, die Alltagsbeschreibung zur
langweilligen,
die Dichterarbeit zum
Freizeitvertrieb,
und der politische Protest zum Geschrei, an dem nichts
als ein
Bier zuviel schuld ist.
Ja, ich
hebe nachdenklich den Zeigefinger und verweise auf ein Interview
mit
Charles Plymell, wo er
sagt,
da_ Kuhscheisse an den Stiefeln nicht unbedingt besser ist als ein
Harward-Studium,
wenn es
um das
Schreiben guter Literatur geht. Und dieser Plymell hatte mehr
Kuhschei_e
an den Stiefeln als
alle
amerikanischen Beat-Autoren zusammen." Hier kann ich mich Franz
Dobler
nur anschlie_en.
Andererseits
verfolge ich die hiesige Literaturszene intensiv seit |ber
drei
Jahren und mu_ zugeben,
da_
viele der Underground-Schreiber sich rasant entwickelt haben - was
das
Literarische und den
Stil
angeht. Und wo man noch vor drei Jahren schrie:
Bukowski-Apologeten!
hdlt man heutzutage
sein
dummes Maul. Manch ein Text von Tuberkel Knuppertz zum Beispiel
w|rde
auch dem
Altmeister
Hank die Schamrvte ins Gesicht treiben.
Dobler
schneidet auch die wichtigste Folge des Booms der alternativen
Literaturszene
an: "Was
hei_t,
da_ die marktwirtschafliche Kontrollfunktion durch 'richtige'
Verlage
au_er Kraft gesetzt ist.
Und
genau das soll es auch hei_en." Genau! Und jetzt meine Bitte an euch
alle:
Unterst|tzen wir
doch
diese gro_artige Szene, die sich hier unabhdngig von den Propheten
der
Langweile entwickelt.
Wenn
jeder von uns drei, vier der Szenezeitschriften aboniert, w|rde die
Sache
wie geschmiert
laufen.
Viele der Zeitungen kommen sowieso nur einmal pro halbes Jahr
heraus
und kosten weniger
als
zwei Kugeln Eis bei Marchi. Au_erdem nimmst du beim Lesen nicht zu
und
tust etwas Gutes.
(Na,
ja, ich kenne schon Leute, die eine Kiste Pralinen brauchen, um
sich
durch eine Seite
durchzukdmpfen.)
Und
noch eine Zeitschrift m|_t ihr unbedingt kennenlernen: Auf Oliver
Bopps
Cocksucker, meinem
Lieblingsmedieum,
steht der Untertitel: Zeitung f|r
Undergroundliteratur.
Und Cocksucker ist
tatsdchlich
reiner Underground Bukowskischer Prdgung - Vorsicht KULT!
Ich
habe die Nr. 7
(September,
1993) noch bei Biby Wintjes bestellt, quasi zum
Reinschnuppern,
und habe mich in die
Zeitung
gleich verknallt - eine platonische Liebe selbstverstdndlich.
Doch
drin fand ich das pralle
Leben!
Abooooo! Seitdem flattert mir jede drei, und jetzt jede vier
Monate
die Zeitung mit dem
Glanzcover
ins Haus. Unverge_lich Ollis Intros. Wie er zum Beispiel im
Heft 9
mit der
selbstgerechten
Linken abrechnete (LINKS! Zwo, drei, vier...): "Gestehen
wir uns
ein, da_ die Welt
sich
f|r ein System entschieden hat, welches den Menschen
charakterisiert.
Setzen wir also zundchst
am
Menschen an und nicht am System." Macht sie nicht Freude, diese klare
Sprache?
Ein so
gro_artiger
Gedanke und einfach gesagt. Das Intro endete mit: "Was den
Sexismus
angeht, so
werde
ich meine Ndchte auch in Zukunft nicht mit |berfl|ssigen
Diskussionen
|ber das
Wenn
und Aber verplempern, sondern bumsen, was das Zeug hdlt. Wenn ich
am
Morgen
danach
ein Schamhaar auf meiner Zunge finde, dann ist mir das lieber als
ein
Barthaar -
ein
ganz langes." Als ich den Text zu Ende las, dachte ich mir gleich,
diesem
Typen mu_ ich meine
Storys
schicken. Was ich in diesem Zusammnehang interessant finde: Die
meisten
Frauen stvren sich
|berhaupt
nicht daran, da_ uns diese wunderschvnen Dinger so gut
gefallen:
Die Beine, die Br|ste,
die
wunderbaren runden Drsche und vor allem die... na, ja, die lasse ich
jetzt
aus - heute hab ich
Friederike
schon genug gedrgert. Immer stvren sich vor allem
irgendwelche
Mdnner an unserem
Sexismus.
Unldngst las ich in einer kleinen Schriftstellerrunde meine
Geschichte
Sommertage. Nach
der
Lesung sagt Max Blaeulich, ein Redakteur von Literatur und Kritik:
"Das
war die
frauenfeindlichste
Geschichte, die ich je gehvrt habe." (Max hatte
vorher
in der Runde seinen Text
|ber
irgendeine Knopffabrik gelesen, na, ja...) Ich erzdhlte spdter
diese
Geschichte bei einem
Poetry-Slam
in M|nchen, wo ich anschlie_end Sommertage noch mal zum
besten
gab. Sabine
Zaplin,
eine Jurorin und Journalistin, sagte in ihrem Kritikbeitrag:
"Das
war die charmanteste
frauenfeindliche
Geschichte, die ich je gehvrt habe." Den Slam habe ich
dann
nat|rlich gewonnen.
Diese
Begebenheit mvchte ich irgendwannmal zu einer Story verheizen, und
so kann
ich euch jetzt
nicht
verraten, da_ ich damals in der Literaten-Runde einen kleinen
Kreislaufkolaps
erlitt - nach
einem
unmd_igen Kaffeekonsum (ca 25 Tassen). Selbstverstdndlich nahm der
gute
Max an, ich
sei
wegen seiner Kritik umgekippt. So komme ich hier in Deutschland zu
meinem
Schriftstellerruf.
Seit meiner Begegnung mit Max druckt |brigens
Literatur
und Kritik nichts mehr
von
mir: Meine Texte seien den Redakteuren zu larmoyant. Aber jetzt
zur|ck
zu Cocksucker. \ber
die
gewissenhaften Mdnner, |ber diese Gerechten, die gegen uns,
Sexisten,
kdmpfen, kvnnte auch
Olli
Bopp Bdnde f|llen.
In
Cocksucker Nr. 13 packte mich gleich Olli Bopps Intro Social Beat?
Wunderbar
und... traurig.
Olli
schrieb: "In Frankfurt gab es plvtzlich Lesungen von Autoren, deren
Namen
in der Szene nie
gefallen
haben. Unter der Social Beat Flagge versuchten sich da Autoren
einer
ganz anderen
Richtung
(experimentell, dadaistisch) ein St|ck vom Medienkuchen
abzuschneiden."
Social Beat in
Gefahr!
Doch dort, wo die Satten jammern, lebt Underground von Hoffnung.
Seine
Abrechnung
beendete
Olli mit: "Wir haben uns gefunden und finden uns - suchen wir
unsere
Leser. Viel Spa_ mit
alten
und neuen Namen des wahren Social Beat."
Cocksucker
Nr. 14 mit dem wunderbaren Umschlag. Auf den Photos einige
der
neuen Wilden, der
Social-Beat-Propheten:
Jvrg Andri Dahlmayer, Robsie Richter, Oliver
Bopp,
Roland Adelmann
(|brigens
alles Gute zu dem Schritt der Schritte, Roland!), Kersten
Flenter,
Caroline Hartge, Jvrg
Gvtterwind,
Hardy Kr|ger, Dagi Bernhard, Hermann J. Borgerding, Thorsten
Nesch,
Ingo Lahr,
Grobylin
Marlowe und selbstverstdndlich auch dabei - Hellmuth Karasek.
Vor mir
liegt jetzt das vorldufig letzte Cocksucker-Heft, Nr. 15. Statt
eines
Vorwortes begr|_t uns
Olli
mit einer Collage aus Zeitungsschnippseln - manchmal reicht es
wirklich,
auf das Elend nur mit
dem
Finger zu zeigen - Schlagzeilen: Sparma_nahmen bei Sozialschwachen
kontra
Didtenerhvhung
bei
Abgeordneten. Weiter im Heft schon traditionell Hartmuths Kolumne
(Hartmuth
Malorny) mit
seinem
poetischen Lob "blitzernder frvhlicher Kronkorken waagerecht
gestapelter
Bierflaschen."
Auf
Seite 5 nimmt Olli Bopp Abschied von Biby Wintjes. Wie sonst als mit
einer
Story: Ollis erste
Begegnung
mit Biby. Und ich hatte dich nur am Telefon erleben kvnnen,
Biby,
zum letzten Mal einen
Tag
bevor das Arschloch Tod dich uns wegnahm.
Bah!
Endlich kann ich wieder mal eine Geschichte von dem guten alten
Ruhrpott
Rodney, Roland
Adelmann,
lesen: Als mein guter Ruf auf dem Spiel stand. Man liest, man
lacht,
und man fragt
sich,
zum wievielten Mal schon: Wieso schnappen sich die gro_en Verlage
nicht
diese Leute? Ein
Buch
mit solchen Geschichten w|rde ich mir doch sofort kaufen!
Weiter
im Cocksucker Nr. 15: Hartmuth Malorny schreibt |ber Herbert
Huncke,
ein wie
immer
gutes Gedicht von Kersten Flenter und eine feine Story von
Grobilyn
Marlowe. Aber das ist
bei
weitem nicht alles. Doch ich mu_ Schlu_ machen, wie leid es mir auch
tut. Da
wird Frank
Duwald
schon sowieso die Gro_zehen verdrehen, wenn er diese Seiten sieht
- so
ein dickes
Manuskript
hat ihm noch keiner zukommen lassen. Eine Frechheit! Heute
habe
ich von Frank mit der
Post
Ozzy Osbornes CD A Diary of a Madman bekommen. Ja, ja - ein
Geschenk
von Freund zu
Freund.
Sicher doch! Aber vielleicht auch ein subtiler Wink: "Hey, Mann,
hvr
jetzt auf mit dem
Tippen
und mach mal was Ordentliches." Na, ja, so werde ich jetzt wohl
die
Harddisc runterdrehen
und die
Ozzy-CD rotieren lassen. Zumindest bis die Nachbarn die
Feuerwehr
rufen.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 02:14:39 UT
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From: "Shani St.John"
<lawlaw1@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Geese]
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
R. Bentz Kirby
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 1997 8:37 PM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: [Fwd: Geese]
This is
a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Hi all:
When I
wrote Geese and posted it, I copied Charles Plymell. He in turn
sent to
me this poem about a rabbit. When the
rabbit managed to run
between
my front tires and clear the rear before they came along, I
thought
of this poem. That is why the most
recent posting was dedicated
to
Charles. The undetermined point of
view. He gave me permission to
post
this to complete the connection. First
Geese, then this, then my
rabbit
poem.
Now,
Charles also found something and would like to see if someone who
speaks
this language, must be German or some similiar language to my
uneducated
eye, can translate the last paragraph for him.
I am assuming
he
means the one with Huncke in it.
http://www.fto.de/fthp/gassner/jk_mesdd2.html
I wrote
and he replied in full:
Yes,
your poem was my inspiration.
Also
would you mind posting this site:
(http://www.fto.de/fthp/gassner/jk_mesdd2.html)
Pam
found on the web to the list to see if someone could translate the
last
paragraph
for me.
CP
If you
can translate this and don't have Charles' address, please post
it to
the list and there are several persons who will forward it to him.
And it
is about Huncke, so it must be beat.
The paragraph also contains
the
mention of Ozzy Osborne and other things that make it a unique
paragraph,
that's for sure. Uuuhhh, Charles, I do
have the right link,
right?
:-)
I hope
you enjoy the poem. I found it to
contain a lot in a little and
really
like it. It is black humor I guess, but
a nice tidy piece of
work.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
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Date:
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From:
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Message-ID:
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To:
bocelts@scsn.net
Subject:
Re: Geese
I saw a
rabbit road killed today
darting
into time and space
the
guts left of a view undetermined
cp
--------------164462545FB58CFD1A65CCC5--
I'm
confused, is Plymell black? I am not familiar with his work;
why do
you think it is black humor?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 20:52:00 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sylvanna Vanderpark
<SylvannaV@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Every 20 years
well,
here in toronto, we celebrate the 80's already....Retro 80's is a
popular
theme at clubs....it's wierd to be so nostalgiac about my childhood
so
soon....
sylvanna
I look
around and I've waited, waited
I look
around and I've waited for this
<<
the 70's it was 50's music. In the 80's
it was 60's and now disco,
70's is the fad. Hmmmm, think what it will be like next time when
they get the 80's around again. Or what about in the next when they
look back to the 90's for the cool
stuff. You are making it now. It
is hard to see the big picture. " Right
here right now, there is no
other place I'd rather be. Right here right now. "
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
>>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 23:11:58 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
In-Reply-To:
<971104130631_410822766@emout06.mail.aol.com>
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For
clarification purposes, I am not speaking for Generation X. I'm after
that
generation...
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 00:03:31 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "PoOka(the friendly ghost)"
<jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
Subject: thanks for the responses (what would
kerouac think...)
Mime-Version:
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hey
folks,
well thanks for all of your insights
on the topic that i posted a
few
days ago. I didn't want some of you to personally attack one another
over it
but i found it amazing to take my short post and turn it into
something
that everyone had an opinion on. As a conclusion, i would like
to say
that i enjoy reading about the Beats and anyone who was here
before
me. Learning from them makes me a better and "armed"
person
who can go up against a cold society.
But i still can't accept
the 90s
as being anything worth wild with things such as "woodstock 96"
and
terrible angst-ridden poetry from the likes of Henry Rollins. These
are
just two little examples that i can defend my opinion on.
Well, have a good day an watch out for
banality. :)
jason
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 00:44:18 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Sad Enigma <Sadenigma@AOL.COM>
Subject: yes yes
Comments:
To: donlee@comp.uark.edu
ummm
what's be here now all about? and why
am i doing that? i want to see
pull my
daisy but i have to look around for it i think. umm i got a reject
thing
saying my post didn't make it to the list but then you repsonded to my
post,
so ummm how does that work out in the big picture?
<3
chad
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 02:56:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "L.W. Deal"
<RoadSide6@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: generation x
This
whole "Gen X/What would Kerouac think?" discussion has me feeling a
bit
mixed
--- I am both bored & peeved. It almost seems that an argument is being
forced
in order to get off the whole Estate-debate. I agree with Nancy that
the
"current" generation of young 'uns (myself included) are doing a lot of
good
and are helping progress our future in
many ways not attempted from
past
generations. However -- we are forgetting one thing: we learn from the
past.
Life is trial & error. Without the mistakes of the past we would
neither
HAVE some of the current problems we experience (such as
environmental
disasters, world misuse) nor would we have any ANSWERS TO THE
PROBLEMS.
You see, in every generation there's a bunch of folks making a mess
and an
equal amount of folks both cleaning up their peers' spilt milk glasses
AND
configuring ways to prevent it in the future.
It's
quite silly to be so damned general when referring to a generation ---
while
I'm out there doing 10+ hours of AIDS volunteer work a week and working
with
the developmentally disabled (I'm playing "Glenda the Good Witch" here),
on the
left hand, there's my little sister hanging out with gang-bangers,
thinkin'
bout drive-by's and never once has she lifted he hand in a good hard
day's
work (she's the "Wicked Witch" you see).... She's 21, I'm 23. Point
is,
generalizations
are asinine. Firing off pissy remarks at older folks is
asinine.
This discussion is asinine. I'm a fool for taking part. ---- But I'm
young,
I'm jaded. Therefore I'm allowed <said with smirk>
Starfishes
& Kisses,
L
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 08:28:39 -0600
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: of Generations and whatnot
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somedays
when the wind gusts across
the
Kansas prairie
several
hundred generations can pass through
my
numbed mind
before
the morning coffee is sipped.
other
days, a single generation
may
last several thousand years
amidst
an afternoon siesta
amazing
sometimes
that we
are so easily distracted
distracted
distracted and some distraught
by our
biological ages
our
placement in
this era
this generation
not that
oh that
i could have lived in Ancient Egypt
that
would be hip
but you
have lived in Ancient Egypt
oh
yeah, i forgot
got
trapped in that
biological
name my generation angst blues
am i in
your generation
sometimes
am i in
my generation
sometimes
am i
even i let alone
we we
time
for one of those siestas david
not yet
i just woke up
oh yeah
- maybe coffee will help
where
was i
generations
oh
older
and younger
that
old age gap twisting brains
Eisenhower
evil or still President in my mind
i was
so much older than i'm younger than that now
this
morning i feel a good 98 or so
yesterday
had a brief period of 900
today
maybe jump backwards
following
Merlin through time's mist
and
spend an hour or two as
a
twenty-somethinger to see how it fits.
sad
sometimes that our connectedness
gets
bracketed by numbers
on a
paper called a birth certificate.
traditions
- are they generational?
depends
on which ones i suppose
it's
all been done somewhere between
Abilene
and Ur
on a
windy morning
or a
dark and stormy night
Snoopy
kicks me away from the keyboard
to type
an opus
to the
sad corporatism of the Dilbert generation
have
fun snoop.
morning
all.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 10:04:08 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: of Generations and whatnot
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David,
really enjoyed the poem, thought a little generational
sandwich
about youth and traveling might be appropriate.
p
Sweet sixteen
Huddled
under a bridge,
cold
fanged breeze
strip
teasing comfort from my back.
Small green
knive nestling
in the
boot.
Beside
the highway, frozen then
diving
headfirst through barbed wire
to miss
the adminastrations of the father of 6.
Taking
a right to the jaw thought I
heard a
phone rang.
gentle
trails of vomit,
eyes
spinning,
life
before me
a
spector of choice.
Where
is my direction.
patricia
RACE
--- wrote:
>
>
somedays when the wind gusts across
>
the Kansas prairie
>
several hundred generations can pass through
> my
numbed mind
>
before the morning coffee is sipped.
>
>
other days, a single generation
>
may last several thousand years
>
amidst an afternoon siesta
>
>
amazing sometimes
>
that we are so easily distracted
>
distracted
> distracted and some distraught
> by
our biological ages
> our
placement in
> this era
> this generation
> not that
> oh
that i could have lived in Ancient Egypt
>
that would be hip
>
but you have lived in Ancient Egypt
> oh
yeah, i forgot
>
got trapped in that
>
biological name my generation angst blues
>
> am
i in your generation
>
sometimes
> am
i in my generation
>
sometimes
> am
i even i let alone
> we
we
>
>
time for one of those siestas david
>
not yet i just woke up
> oh
yeah - maybe coffee will help
> where
was i
>
>
generations
> oh
>
older and younger
>
that old age gap twisting brains
>
Eisenhower evil or still President in my mind
> i
was so much older than i'm younger than that now
>
>
this morning i feel a good 98 or so
>
yesterday had a brief period of 900
>
today maybe jump backwards
>
following Merlin through time's mist
>
and spend an hour or two as
> a
twenty-somethinger to see how it fits.
>
>
sad sometimes that our connectedness
>
gets bracketed by numbers
> on
a paper called a birth certificate.
>
>
traditions - are they generational?
>
depends on which ones i suppose
>
it's all been done somewhere between
>
Abilene and Ur
> on
a windy morning
> or
a dark and stormy night
>
>
Snoopy kicks me away from the keyboard
> to
type an opus
> to
the sad corporatism of the Dilbert generation
>
>
have fun snoop.
>
>
morning all.
>
>
david rhaesa
>
salina, Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 12:04:18 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: do ya ever...
MIME-Version:
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> On
Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Marie Countryman wrote:
>
>
>
>
> walk down streets with ears wide open, ears most acute sense by blocking
>
> just enough for safety the other senses,
>
> and hear the two guys way up the hill arguing whose fieldstone wall is
>
> the sturdiest, the wet and crinkly leaves underfoot have different
>
> sounds, moms talking to toddlers out of still open windows a particular
>
> muffler problem that had grown into the background of white noise in my
>
> room becomes a real car in need, don't look at the car to make
>
> judgements just listening listeneing to geese overhead, smaller birds
>
> still out on the wires, squirrels squabbling...
>
> do ya ever do that, anyone?
>
> mc
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 10:47:45 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: of Generations and whatnot
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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Patricia
Elliott wrote:
>
>
David, really enjoyed the poem, thought a little generational
>
sandwich about youth and traveling might be appropriate.
> p
>
enjoyed
the sandwich - quite a breakfast. your
tale tells so much and
so much
of it exploding out from between the lines, the words, the
letters,
<my jaw hurts a bit - perhaps sympathy pains but no auditory
visions
of phones yet> i've obviously lived
such a sheltered
life....mental
travels instead of real ones. fewer
scars on my body
that
way. scars on my brain? oh well, there
is that <grin>
just
returned from filling station with strawberry kiwi gatorade.
Dilbert
great social commentary. Charlie Brown
story of my life. Ziggy
provided
food for my sandwich. It is a dim and
dreary drizzling
morning....the
weather not even up for a dark and stormy night.
> Sweet sixteen
>
Huddled under a bridge,
>
cold fanged breeze
>
strip teasing comfort from my back.
>
Small green knive nestling
> in
the boot.
>
>
Beside the highway, frozen then
>
diving headfirst through barbed wire
> to
miss the adminastrations of the father of 6.
>
Taking a right to the jaw thought I
>
heard a phone rang.
>
>
gentle trails of vomit,
>
eyes spinning,
>
life before me
> a
spector of choice.
>
Where is my direction.
>
>
patricia
>
>
RACE --- wrote:
>
>
>
> somedays when the wind gusts across
>
> the Kansas prairie
>
> several hundred generations can pass through
>
> my numbed mind
>
> before the morning coffee is sipped.
>
>
>
> other days, a single generation
>
> may last several thousand years
>
> amidst an afternoon siesta
>
>
>
> amazing sometimes
>
> that we are so easily distracted
>
> distracted
>
> distracted and some distraught
>
> by our biological ages
>
> our placement in
>
> this era
>
> this generation
>
> not that
>
> oh that i could have lived in Ancient Egypt
>
> that would be hip
>
> but you have lived in Ancient Egypt
>
> oh yeah, i forgot
>
> got trapped in that
>
> biological name my generation angst blues
>
>
>
> am i in your generation
>
> sometimes
>
> am i in my generation
>
> sometimes
>
> am i even i let alone
>
> we we
>
>
>
> time for one of those siestas david
>
> not yet i just woke up
>
> oh yeah - maybe coffee will help
>
> where was i
>
>
>
> generations
>
> oh
>
> older and younger
>
> that old age gap twisting brains
>
> Eisenhower evil or still President in my mind
>
> i was so much older than i'm younger than that now
>
>
>
> this morning i feel a good 98 or so
>
> yesterday had a brief period of 900
>
> today maybe jump backwards
>
> following Merlin through time's mist
>
> and spend an hour or two as
>
> a twenty-somethinger to see how it fits.
>
>
>
> sad sometimes that our connectedness
>
> gets bracketed by numbers
>
> on a paper called a birth certificate.
>
>
>
> traditions - are they generational?
>
> depends on which ones i suppose
>
> it's all been done somewhere between
>
> Abilene and Ur
>
> on a windy morning
>
> or a dark and stormy night
>
>
>
> Snoopy kicks me away from the keyboard
>
> to type an opus
>
> to the sad corporatism of the Dilbert generation
>
>
>
> have fun snoop.
>
>
>
> morning all.
>
>
>
> david rhaesa
>
> salina, Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 11:14:47 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: of Generations and whatnot
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RACE ---
wrote:
>
>
Patricia Elliott wrote:
>
>
>
> David, really enjoyed the poem, thought a little generational
>
> sandwich about youth and traveling might be appropriate.
>
> p
>
>
>
enjoyed the sandwich - quite a breakfast.
your tale tells so much and
> so
much of it exploding out from between the lines, the words, the
>
letters, <my jaw hurts a bit - perhaps sympathy pains but no auditory
>
visions of phones yet> i've
obviously lived such a sheltered
>
life....mental travels instead of real ones.
fewer scars on my body
>
that way. scars on my brain? oh well,
there is that <grin>
>
>
just returned from filling station with strawberry kiwi gatorade.
>
Dilbert great social commentary.
Charlie Brown story of my life.
Ziggy
>
provided food for my sandwich. It is a
dim and dreary drizzling
>
morning....the weather not even up for a dark and stormy night.
>
dilbert
seems so alarming because it rings so true.
It seems that there
is no
quest for good left in our bones sometimes, that we are laughing
at our
failure. but this may be too early in the morning for me. by
afternoon
and one warm moment in the sunbeam by the window, i may
completely
rejuvinate and now that love conquers all.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 10:26:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marlene Giraud <M84M79@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: of Generations and whatnot
good
morning David!
thanks
for this. to put it plainly you kick ass. (now if that didn't sound
generational...)
anyway, strangely enough i really need a cup of coffee....
take it
easy,
~~marlene
In a
message dated 97-11-05 09:48:54 EST, you write:
<<
somedays when the wind gusts across
the Kansas prairie
several hundred generations can pass through
my numbed mind
before the morning coffee is sipped.
other days, a single generation
may last several thousand years
amidst an afternoon siesta
amazing sometimes
that we are so easily distracted
distracted
distracted and some distraught
by our biological ages
our placement in
this era
this generation
not that
oh that i could have lived in Ancient Egypt
that would be hip
but you have lived in Ancient Egypt
oh yeah, i forgot
got trapped in that
biological name my generation angst blues
am i in your generation
sometimes
am i in my generation
sometimes
am i even i let alone
we we
time for one of those siestas david
not yet i just woke up
oh yeah - maybe coffee will help
where was i
generations
oh
older and younger
that old age gap twisting brains
Eisenhower evil or still President in my mind
i was so much older than i'm younger than
that now
this morning i feel a good 98 or so
yesterday had a brief period of 900
today maybe jump backwards
following Merlin through time's mist
and spend an hour or two as
a twenty-somethinger to see how it fits.
sad sometimes that our connectedness
gets bracketed by numbers
on a paper called a birth certificate.
traditions - are they generational?
depends on which ones i suppose
it's all been done somewhere between
Abilene and Ur
on a windy morning
or a dark and stormy night
Snoopy kicks me away from the keyboard
to type an opus
to the sad corporatism of the Dilbert
generation
have fun snoop.
morning all.
david rhaesa
salina, Kansas >>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 09:18:18 -0700
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From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
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Subject: the_arts_show.doomed_love_.html (fwd)
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beat-L'ers
i
pulled this offa TIME's site - it should be in the new time magazine as
well
(the one with greenspan on the cover) as well - does anyone else out
there
know anything about the rumors of HST writing an ongoing column for
TIME?
thanks
derek
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date:
Wed, 5 Nov 1997 08:24:17 -0700
Subject:
the_arts_show.doomed_love_.html
[1][LINK] [2][LINK] [3]General Motors
[4][ISMAP]
[5]TIME Logo
THE ARTS/SHOW BUSINESS NOVEMBER 10, 1997
VOL. 150 NO. 20
_________________________________________________________________
DOOMED LOVE AT THE TACO STAND
FEAR AND LOATHING IN HOLLYWOOD
BY HUNTER S. THOMPSON
_________________________________________________________________
TIME asked HUNTER S. THOMPSON, a former
copyboy here who went on to an
even more exciting career as a gonzo
journalist, to report from the
set of the movie being made of his 1971
book, Fear and Loathing in Las
Vegas, in which Johnny Depp plays Thompson
and the author appears in a
cameo role. Thompson, who this year
published a volume of collected
letters called The Proud Highway, ended up
taking Depp's car and
checkbook on a romantic adventure. Fasten
your seat belts...
Oct. 11th (HOLLYWOOD)
Going to Hollywood is a dangerous
high-pressure gig for most people,
under any circumstances. It is like pumping
hot steam into thousands
of different-size boilers. The laws of
physics mandate that some will
explode before others--although all of them
will explode sooner or
later unless somebody cuts off the steam.
I love steam myself, and I have learned to
survive under savage and
unnatural pressures. I am a steam freak.
Hollywood is chicken feed to
me. I can take it or leave it. I have been
here before, many times. On
some days it seems like I have lived at the
Chateau Marmont for half
my life. There is blood on these walls, and
some of it is mine. Last
night I sliced off the tips of two fingers
and bled so profusely in
the elevator that they had to take it out
of service.
But nobody complained. I am not just liked
at the Chateau, I am
well-liked. I have important people thrown
out or black-listed on a
whim. Nobody from the Schwarzenegger
organization, for instance, can
even get a drink at the Chateau. They are
verboten. There is a ghastly
political factor in doing any business with
Hollywood. You can't get
by without five or six personal staff
people--and at least one
personal astrologer.
I have always hated astrologers, and I like
to have sport with them.
They are harmless quacks in the main, but
some of them get ambitious
and turn predatory, especially in
Hollywood. In Venice Beach I ran
into a man who claimed to be Johnny Depp's
astrologer. "I consult with
him constantly," he told me. "We
are never far away. I have many
famous clients." He produced a yellow
business card and gave it to me.
"I can do things for you," he said.
"I am a player."
I took his card and examined it carefully
for a moment, as if I
couldn't quite read the small print. But I
knew he was lying, so I
leaned toward him and slapped him sharply
in the nuts. Not hard, but
very quickly, using the back of my hand and
my fingers like a
bullwhip, yet very discreetly.
He let out a hiss and went limp, unable to
speak or breathe. I smiled
casually and kept on talking to him as if
nothing had happened. "You
filthy little creep," I said to him.
"I am Johnny Depp!"
Outside on the boulevard I saw a half-naked
young girl on roller
skates being mauled by two huge dogs. They
were Great Danes,
apparently running loose. Both had their
paws on her shoulder, and the
gray one had her head in its mouth. But
there was no noise, and nobody
seemed to notice.
I grabbed a fork off the bar and rushed
outside to help her, giving
the bogus astrologer another slap in the
nuts on my way out. When I
got to the street, the dogs were still
mauling the girl. I stabbed the
big one in the ribs with my fork, which
sank deep into the tissue. The
beast yelped crazily and ran off with its
tail between its legs. The
other one quickly released its grip on the
girl's head and snarled at
me. I slashed at it with the fork, and that
was enough for the brute.
It backed off and slunk away toward Muscle
Beach.
I took the girl back to the Buffalo Club
and applied aloe to her
wounds. The astrologer was gone, and we had
the lounge to ourselves.
Her name was Heidi, she said, and she had
just arrived in L.A. to seek
work as a dancer. It was the third time in
10 days she'd been attacked
by wild dogs on the Venice boardwalk, and
she was ready to quit L.A.,
and so was I. The pace was getting to me. I
was not bored, and I still
had work to do, but it was definitely time
to get out of town. I had
to be in Big Sur in three days, and then to
a medical conference in
Pebble Beach. She was a very pretty girl,
about 30, with elegant legs
and a wicked kind of intelligence about
her, but she was also very
naive about Hollywood. I saw at once that
she would be extremely
helpful on my trip north.
I listened to her for a while, then I offered
her a job as my
assistant, which I badly needed. She
accepted, and we drove back to
the Chateau in Depp's Porsche. As we pulled
up the ramp to the
underground garage, the attendants backed
off and signaled me in.
Depp's henchmen had left word that nobody
could touch the car except
me. I parked it expertly, barely missing a
red BMW 840Ci, and we went
up the elevator to my suite.
I reached for my checkbook, but it was
missing, so I used one of
Depp's that I'd found in the glove
compartment of his car. I wrote her
a healthy advance and signed Depp's name to
it. "What the hell?" I
said to her. "He's running around out
there with my checkbook right
now, probably racking up all kinds of
bills."
That was the tone of my workdays in
Hollywood: violence, joy and
constant Mexican music. At one club I
played the bass recorder for
several hours with the band. We spent a lot
of time drinking gin and
lemonade on the balcony, entertaining movie
people and the ever
present scribe from Rolling Stone
magazine...
You bet, bubba, I was taking care of
business. It was like the Too
Much Fun Club. I had the Cadillac and a
green Mustang in the garage,
in addition to the Carerra 4 Porsche, but
we could only drive one of
them up the coast. It was an uptown
problem.
Depp, meanwhile, was driving around town in
my car, the Red Shark, and
passing himself off as me. It was part of
the movie, he said, but it
gave me the creeps.
Finally it got to be too much, so we loaded
up the Northstar Cadillac
and fled. Why not? I thought. The girl had
proved to be a tremendous
help, and besides, I was beginning to like
her.
Oct. 12th (PISMO BEACH)
The sun was going down as we left Malibu
and headed north on 101,
running smoothly through Oxnard and along
the ocean to Santa Barbara.
My companion was a little nervous about my
speed, so I gave her some
gin to calm her down. Soon she relaxed
against me, and I put my arm
around her. Roseanne Cash was on the radio, singing about the
seven-year ache, and the traffic was
opening up.
As we approached the Lompoc exit, I
mentioned that Lompoc was the site
of a federal penitentiary and I once had
some friends over there.
"Oh?" she said. "Who were
they?"
"Prisoners," I said.
"Nothing serious. That's where Ed was."
She stiffened and moved away from me, but I
turned up the music and we
settled back to drive and watch the moon
come up. What the hell? I
thought. Just another young couple on the
road to the American Dream.
Things started to get weird when I noticed
Pismo Beach coming up. I
was on the cell phone with Benicio del
Toro, the famous Puerto Rican
actor, telling him about the time I was
violently jailed in Pismo
Beach and how it was making me nervous to
even pass a road sign with
that name on it. "Yeah," I was
saying, "it was horrible. They beat me
on the back of my legs. It was a case of
mistaken identity." I smiled
at my assistant, not wanting to alarm her,
but I saw that she was
going into a fetal crouch and her fingers
were clutching the straps of
her seat belt.
Just then we passed two police cars parked
on the side of the road,
and I saw that we were going a hundred and
three.
"Slow down!" Heidi was screaming.
"Slow down! We'll be arrested. I
can't stand it!" She was sobbing and
clawing at the air.
"Nonsense," I said. "Those
were not police. My radar didn't go off." I
reached over to pat her on the arm, but she bit me and I had to
pull
over. The only exit led to a
dangerous-looking section of Pismo Beach,
but I took it anyway.
It was just about midnight when we parked
under the streetlight in
front of the empty Mexican place on Main
Street. Heidi was having a
nervous breakdown. There was too much talk
about jails and police and
prisons, she said. She felt like she was
already in chains.
I left the car in a crosswalk and hurried
inside to get a taco. The
girl behind the register warned me to get
my car off the street
because the police were about to swoop down
on the gang of thugs
milling around in front of the taco place.
"They just had a fight with
the cops," she said. "Now I'm
afraid somebody is going to get killed."
We were parked right behind the doomed mob,
so I hurried out to roust
Heidi and move the car to safety. Then we
went back inside very gently
and sat down in a booth at the rear of the
room. I put my arm around
Heidi and tried to calm her down. She
wanted gin, and luckily I still
had a pint flask full of it in my
fleece-lined jacket pocket. She
drank greedily, then fell back in the booth
and grinned. "Well, so
much for that," she chirped. "I
guess I really went crazy, didn't I?"
"Yes," I said. "You were out
of control. It was like dealing with a
vampire."
She smiled and grasped my thigh. "I am
a vampire," she said. "We have
many a mile to go before we sleep. I am
hungry."
"Indeed," I said. "We will
have to fill up on tacos before we go any
farther. I too am extremely hungry."
Just then the waitress arrived to take our
order. The mob of young
Chicanos outside had disappeared very
suddenly, roaring off into the
night in a brace of white pickup trucks.
They were a good-natured
bunch, mainly teenagers with huge shoulders
wearing Dallas Cowboys
jerseys and heads like half-shaved
coconuts. They were not afraid of
the cops, but they left anyway.
The waitress was hugely relieved.
"Thank God," she said. "Now Manuel
can live one more night. I was afraid they
would kill him. We have
only been married three weeks." She
began sobbing, and I could see she
was about to crack. I introduced myself as
Johnny Depp, but I saw the
name meant nothing to her. Her name was
Maria. She was 17 years old
and had lied about her age to get the job.
She was the manager and
Manuel was the cook. He was almost 21.
Every night strange men hovered
around the taco stand and mumbled about
killing him.
Maria sat down in the booth between us, and
we both put our arms
around her. She shuddered and collapsed
against Heidi, kissing her
gently on the cheek. "Don't
worry," I said. "Nobody is going to be
killed tonight. This is the night of the
full moon. Some people will
die tonight, but not us. I am
protected."
Which was true. I am a Triple Moon Child,
and tonight was the Hunter's
Moon. I pulled the waitress closer to me
and spoke soothingly. "You
have nothing to fear, little one," I
told her. "No power on earth can
harm me tonight. I walk with the
King."
She smiled and kissed me gratefully on my
wrist. Manuel stared
balefully at us from his perch in the
kitchen, saying nothing. "Rest
easy," I called out to him.
"Nobody is going to kill you tonight."
"Stop saying that!" Heidi
snapped, as Manuel sunk further into
himself. "Can't you see he's
afraid?" Maria began crying again, but I
jerked her to her feet. "Get a grip on
yourself," I said sharply. "We
need more beer and some pork tacos to go. I
have to drive the whole
coast tonight."
"That's right," said my
companion. "We're on a honeymoon trip. We're
in a hurry." She laughed and reached
for my wallet. "Come on, big
boy," she cooed. "Don't try to
cheat. Just give it to me."
"Watch yourself," I snarled,
slapping her hand away from my pocket.
"You've been acting weird ever since
we left L.A. We'll be in serious
trouble if you go sideways on me
again."
She grinned and stretched her arms lazily
above her head, poking her
elegant little breasts up in the air at me
like some memory from an
old Marilyn Monroe calendar and rolling her
palms in the air.
"Sideways?" she said. "What
difference does it make? Let's get out of
here. We're late."
I paid the bill quickly and watched Maria
disappear into the kitchen.
Manuel was nowhere in sight. Just as I
stepped into the street, I
noticed two police cars coming at us from
different directions. Then
another one slowed down right in front of
the taco stand.
"Don't worry," I said to Heidi.
"They're not looking for us."
I seized her by the leg and rushed her into
the Cadillac. There was a
lot of yelling as we pulled away through
the circling traffic and back
out onto Highway 101.
My mind was very much on my work as we sped
north along the coast to
Big Sur. We were into open country now,
running straight up the coast
about a mile from the ocean on a two-lane
blacktop road across the
dunes with no clouds in the sky and a full
moon blazing down on the
Pacific. It was a perfect night to be
driving a fast car on an empty
road along the edge of the ocean with a
half-mad beautiful woman
asleep on the white leather seats and Lyle
Lovett crooning doggerel
about screwheads who go out to sea with
shotguns and ponies in small
rowboats just to get some kind of warped
revenge on a white man with
bad habits who was only trying to do them a
favor in the first place.
You bet. My mind was wandering, thinking
about Lyle. I was just with
him in Hollywood. We both had roles in my
movie, but Lyle had a
trailer and I didn't. I had to settle for
half of Depp's trailer,
along with his C4 Porsche and his wig, so I
could look more like
myself when I drove around Beverly Hills
and stared at people when we
rolled to a halt at stoplights on Rodeo
Drive.
Oct. 13th (BIG SUR)
I lost control of the Cadillac about
halfway down the slope. The road
was slick with pine needles, and the
eucalyptus trees were getting
closer together. The girl laughed as I
tried to aim the car through
the darkness with huge tree trunks looming
up in the headlights and
the bright white moon on the ocean out in
front of us. It was like
driving on ice, going straight toward the
abyss.
We shot past a darkened house and past a
parked Jeep, then crashed
into a waterfall high above the sea. I got
out of the car and sat down
on a rock, then lit up the marijuana pipe.
"Well," I said to Heidi,
"this is it. We must have taken a
wrong turn."
She laughed and sucked on some moss. Then
she sat down across from me
on a
log. "You're funny," she said. "You're very strange--and you
don't know why, do you?"
I shook my head softly and drank some gin.
"No," I said. "I'm
stupid."
"It's because you have the soul of a
teenage girl in the body of an
elderly dope fiend," she whispered. "That is why you have
problems."
She patted me on the knee. "Yes. That
is why people giggle with fear
every time you come into a room. That is
why you rescued me from those
dogs in Venice."
I stared out to sea and said nothing for a
while. But somehow I knew
she was right. Yes sir, I said slowly to
myself, I have the soul of a
teenage girl in the body of an elderly dope
fiend. No wonder they
can't understand me.
This is a hard dollar, on most days, and
not many people can stand it.
Indeed. If the greatest mania of all is
passion: and if I am a natural
slave to passion: and if the balance
between my brain and my soul and
my body is as wild and delicate as the skin
of a Ming vase--
Well, that explains a lot of things,
doesn't it? We need look no
further. Yes sir, and people wonder why I
seem to look at them
strangely. Or why my personal etiquette
often seems makeshift and
contradictory, even clinically insane...
Hell, I don't miss those
whispers, those soft groans of fear when I
enter a civilized room. I
know what they're thinking, and I know
exactly why. They are extremely
uncomfortable with the idea that I am a
teenage girl trapped in the
body of a 60-year-old career criminal who
has already died 16 times.
Sixteen, all documented. I have been
crushed and beaten and shocked
and drowned and poisoned and stabbed and
shot and smothered and set on
fire by my own bombs...
All these things have happened, and
probably they will happen again. I
have learned a few tricks along the way, a
few random skills and
simple avoidance techniques--but mainly it
has been luck, I think, and
a keen attention to karma, along with my
natural girlish charm.
(To be continued.)
[6]The Gonzo Faxes: Correspondence from the
edge.
_________________________________________________________________
[7]time-webmaster@pathfinder.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 18:31:03 UT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
quite
frankly, i think every generation has to deal with more or less the same
stresses. certain generations have had them a little
tougher than others -
the
gen-x'ers being one of them. the focus
shifts. in the 50's it was the
ostrich-head-in-the-sand
mentality and ultra-repression of emotional and
sexual
issues which the youth of that generation broke through. in the 70's
apathy
become the desired stance, after trying so hard in the 60's to change
things
and the war. in the 80's it was
reaction to extremes of the 60's and
70's,
so conservatism won out (much to my horror).
there
are no manuals for life. beat is
beat. it stands because those things
which
fundamentally define beat are timeless.
although the prevalence of such
thought
may wane, it never dies and when the social climate gets too extreme
many
people turn to these truths/values to anchor them amidst the turmoil.
beat
would be dead and meaningless if it didn't evolve. it can evolve because
it
embraces some of the deepest truths of the human soul. of course, this is
just my
humble opinion.
ciao,
sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Alex Howard
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 1997 8:15 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
> I
beg to differ. I think that my generation is amazing. A lot of people
>
have misconceptions about us because of the media but most of us are doinf
>
good stuff.
What I
mean is that I don't see this generation as particularly unique (as
a whole
I mean). This is the first one to come
of age completely in the
trench
of post-modernism (which is in itself unique), but as the
post-modern
world is unique, there is difficulty finding a way of dealing
with
it. The hippies, the beatniks, the
beats, the lost generation had
specific
and logical ways to deal with the world as it presented itself at
that
time. Post-modernism has led to such a
mish-mash of culture and
ideas,
looking to the past as a reaction to the anxious present in an
attempt
to understand everything that has become and is becoming of
culture
and society there is not _distinct_ way in which this generation
has
come upon to deal with and understand this era. I'm not saying there
aren't
a lot of worthwhile people and things happening (although I wonder
sometimes
when I look around), I'm just saying that has yet a particular
reaction
or distinguishing characteristic to emerge.
I do, however, see
great
potential as American culture has just in this century become
distinguishable
(or begun to be distinguishable) from European culture and
traditions. Once post-modernism becomes something that
can be understood
in
about 20 or 30 years, it may be an incredibly important time in
cultural
history. I think that American culture
since the turn of the
century
will become quite important to bring about that coalescence and
the
Beats in particular are a pivitol point in that development.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 15:51:19 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 5 Nov 1997 18:31:03 UT from
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
On Wed,
5 Nov 1997 18:31:03 UT Sherri said:
>quite
frankly, i think every generation has to deal with more or less the same
>stresses. certain generations have had them a little
tougher than others -
>the
gen-x'ers being one of them. the focus
shifts. in the 50's it was the
>ostrich-head-in-the-sand
mentality and ultra-repression of emotional and
>sexual
issues which the youth of that generation broke through. in the 70's
>apathy
become the desired stance, after trying so hard in the 60's to change
>things
and the war. in the 80's it was
reaction to extremes of the 60's and
>70's,
so conservatism won out (much to my horror).
>
>there
are no manuals for life. beat is
beat. it stands because those things
>which
fundamentally define beat are timeless.
although the prevalence of such
>thought
may wane, it never dies and when the social climate gets too extreme
>many
people turn to these truths/values to anchor them amidst the turmoil.
>beat
would be dead and meaningless if it didn't evolve. it can evolve because
>it
embraces some of the deepest truths of the human soul. of course, this is
>just
my humble opinion.
>
>ciao,
>sherri
>
>----------
>From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Alex Howard
>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 1997 8:15 AM
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
>
>>
I beg to differ. I think that my generation is amazing. A lot of people
>>
have misconceptions about us because of the media but most of us are doinf
>>
good stuff.
>
>What
I mean is that I don't see this generation as particularly unique (as
>a
whole I mean). This is the first one to
come of age completely in the
>trench
of post-modernism (which is in itself unique), but as the
>post-modern
world is unique, there is difficulty finding a way of dealing
>with
it. The hippies, the beatniks, the
beats, the lost generation had
>specific
and logical ways to deal with the world as it presented itself at
>that
time. Post-modernism has led to such a
mish-mash of culture and
>ideas,
looking to the past as a reaction to the anxious present in an
>attempt
to understand everything that has become and is becoming of
>culture
and society there is not _distinct_ way in which this generation
>has
come upon to deal with and understand this era. I'm not saying there
>aren't
a lot of worthwhile people and things happening (although I wonder
>sometimes
when I look around), I'm just saying that has yet a particular
>reaction
or distinguishing characteristic to emerge.
I do, however, see
>great
potential as American culture has just in this century become
>distinguishable
(or begun to be distinguishable) from European culture and
>traditions. Once post-modernism becomes something that
can be understood
>in
about 20 or 30 years, it may be an incredibly important time in
>cultural
history. I think that American culture
since the turn of the
>century
will become quite important to bring about that coalescence and
>the
Beats in particular are a pivitol point in that development.
Ah! but now there IS a manual for BEAT
life: it's called "The Beat
Spirit."
It's a
kind of self-help book aimed at "generation xers" who are drawn to
the l
iives
and works of the Beat Generation.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 15:13:55 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Donald G. Jr. Lee"
<donlee@COMP.UARK.EDU>
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
Comments:
To: Bill Gargan <WXGBC%CUNYVM.BITNET@interbit.cren.net>
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997110515543945@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Where
can one get this book THE BEAT SPIRIT?
Don Lee
Fayetteville,
Ark.
"I
make art about the misunderstandings that take place at the
border
zone, but for me, the border is no longer at any fixed
geopolitical
site. I carry the border with me, and I find new
borders,
wherever I go."
--Guillermo
Gomez-Pena
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 19:57:51 BST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Harberd
<T.E.Harberd@UEA.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: wsb and stephen king?
Mime-Version:
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Content-Type:
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On Fri,
31 Oct 1997 14:28:01 -0500 PoOka(the friendly ghost)
wrote:
>
From: PoOka(the friendly ghost) <jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
>
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:28:01 -0500
>
Subject: wsb and stephen king?
>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>
hey folks,
> let me say that i have never read any
of the Dark
Tower
books by
>
Stephen King but its very strange to see a similarity
between
the
>
gunslinger in King's book and Burrough's Kim Carson in the
Western
>
Lands/Place of Dead Roads/Cities of the Red Night series.
Any thoughts
on
>
this or am i just overdosing on M@Ms?
I think
it's quite possible that many people have been
influenced
by WSB without even realising it.
Besides which,
Kim
Carson as gunslinger isn't exactly a completely new type
of
image. Miles makes several claims for
Burroughs'
influence
on culture in his autobiography, some which seemed
quite
spurious at the time that I read it, but I can't
remember
now. Anyone seen the credit to WSB in
Blade
Runner?
Incidently,
I'm writing an essay on the erotic in Burroughs
now for
Monday. Anyone got any thoughts? Is sex in WSB
erotic,
or just cold, clinical and scientefic.
Do you
believe
the claim that its Swiftean satire on capital
punishment,
or is that WSB trying get get away from
prosecution
for obscentity? Are there links between
Ginsberg's
use of explicit language (eg Sunflower Sutra,
half-way
through - text not in front of me) and WSB's?
Is
WSB
only trying to shock, or is there more to it?
Anwsers
on a postcard to...
(and to
those who say not to help students, the answer is
simple...
DON'T! I'm fine on my own, but I'd be
interested
to
discuss it.)
Tom. H.
http://www.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759
"A
Bear of Very Little Brain"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 20:00:46 BST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Harberd
<T.E.Harberd@UEA.AC.UK>
Subject: Remember Guy Fawkes!
Mime-Version:
1.0
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TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
The
fifth of Novemeber... probably doesn't mean much to the
Americans
on the list, but to us Brits... it doesn't really
mean
much either! But I like to think that
Guy Fawkes was
perhaps
one of the first to strike a blow for freedom of the
individual
in this country.
I think
WSB would have appreciated Guido too.
Maybe he did
(I
sorta remember him saying something about it.)
Anyhow,
happy Bonfire Night!
Tom. H.
http://www.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759
"That's
it, I'm done, stick a fork in me."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 17:08:51 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Donahue <donahujl@BC.EDU>
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997110515543945@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
MIME-Version:
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On Wed,
5 Nov 1997, Bill Gargan wrote:
> On
Wed, 5 Nov 1997 18:31:03 UT Sherri said:
>
>quite frankly, i think every generation has to deal with more or less the
same
>
>stresses. certain generations have
had them a little tougher than others -
>
>the gen-x'ers being one of them.
the focus shifts. in the 50's it was the
>
>ostrich-head-in-the-sand mentality and ultra-repression of emotional and
>
>sexual issues which the youth of that generation broke through. in the 70's
>
>apathy become the desired stance, after trying so hard in the 60's to
change
>
>things and the war. in the 80's it
was reaction to extremes of the 60's and
>
>70's, so conservatism won out (much to my horror).
>
>
>
>there are no manuals for life. beat
is beat. it stands because those things
>
>which fundamentally define beat are timeless. although the prevalence of
such
>
>thought may wane, it never dies and when the social climate gets too
extreme
>
>many people turn to these truths/values to anchor them amidst the turmoil.
>
>beat would be dead and meaningless if it didn't evolve. it can evolve
because
>
>it embraces some of the deepest truths of the human soul. of course, this is
>
>just my humble opinion.
>
>
>
>ciao,
>
>sherri
>
>
>
>----------
>
>From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List
on behalf of Alex Howard
>
>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 1997
8:15 AM
>
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>Subject: Re: what would
Kerouac think....
>
>
>
>> I beg to differ. I think that my generation is amazing. A lot of
people
>
>> have misconceptions about us because of the media but most of us are
doinf
>
>> good stuff.
>
>
>
>What I mean is that I don't see this generation as particularly unique (as
>
>a whole I mean). This is the first
one to come of age completely in the
>
>trench of post-modernism (which is in itself unique), but as the
>
>post-modern world is unique, there is difficulty finding a way of dealing
>
>with it. The hippies, the beatniks,
the beats, the lost generation had
>
>specific and logical ways to deal with the world as it presented itself at
>
>that time. Post-modernism has led
to such a mish-mash of culture and
>
>ideas, looking to the past as a reaction to the anxious present in an
>
>attempt to understand everything that has become and is becoming of
>
>culture and society there is not _distinct_ way in which this generation
>
>has come upon to deal with and understand this era. I'm not saying there
>
>aren't a lot of worthwhile people and things happening (although I wonder
>
>sometimes when I look around), I'm just saying that has yet a particular
>
>reaction or distinguishing characteristic to emerge. I do, however, see
>
>great potential as American culture has just in this century become
>
>distinguishable (or begun to be distinguishable) from European culture and
>
>traditions. Once post-modernism
becomes something that can be understood
>
>in about 20 or 30 years, it may be an incredibly important time in
>
>cultural history. I think that
American culture since the turn of the
>
>century will become quite important to bring about that coalescence and
>
>the Beats in particular are a pivitol point in that development.
>
>
>
Ah! but now there IS a manual for BEAT
life: it's called "The Beat
Spirit."
>
It's a kind of self-help book aimed at "generation xers" who are
drawn to the
l
>
iives and works of the Beat Generation.
>
-----question:
i just got a copy of this book as a
gift,
but it didnt look sincere - maybe it was just
the
cover or the bongos on some of the pages, but i
would
like to know if this is a serious endeavor.
if
its
just a game for people who have nothing better to
do and
are tired of self-help books, ill ignore it.
but if
this has some serious merit, ill be glad to
give it
a read. ive flipped through some of the
exercizes
- some are quite odd - but all in all im not
so
sure, so i thought id ask someone who knows.
(strange
coincidence that you happened to mention it
now...)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 19:23:14 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: generation x
MIME-Version:
1.0
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8bit
>This
whole "Gen X/What would Kerouac think?" discussion has me feeling
>a
bit
>mixed
--- I am both bored & peeved. It almost seems that an argument is
>being
>forced
in order to get off the whole Estate-debate.
I think that, in this discussion, there
is a misconception about
what
gen x is. it's not the young generation
now, it isn't defined by
age;
gen x is more an "attitude," an inability to categorize oneself
within
any one generational tendency. dig what
i'm saying? that's why
it's gen
X, x is the unknown variable in a manner of speaking. That
sound
right?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 19:14:40 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: wsb and stephen king?
MIME-Version:
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Tom
Harberd wrote:
is
there more to it?
>
>
Anwsers on a postcard to...
>
(and to those who say not to help students, the answer is
>
simple... DON'T! I'm fine on my own,
but I'd be interested
> to
discuss it.)
>
>
Tom. H.
>
http://www.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759
>
"A Bear of Very Little Brain"
ah, a
chance to clarify, i never said nor did i hear anyone say , not to
help
students, i just said that i resented being considered a free
source.
I am not on this list to be a help to someone who prefers not to
think
enough to ask a good question,
different matter entirely.
i love a good question, dislike general
questions. student questions,
or life
student questions all the same merit to me.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 02:44:38 UT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
marie -
laughing my head off! you have the most
perfect timing!! ciao,
sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Marie Countryman
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 1997 8:46 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
ok all
you pikers posers weasels and whiners
i have
consulted with my alter personality, who in another life was a
therapist.
half of
you should walk as weirdly as possible to monty python's arguement
clinic
do not wait a moment, asap mon cheris!
the
rest go stand and rot in the verbal abuse clinic.
there
now.
any one
with newly diagnosed prostrate problems?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 02:47:08 UT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: of Generations and whatnot
Patricia
- thank you. quite a poem!1
ciao,
sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Patricia Elliott
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 1997 8:04 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: of Generations and whatnot
David,
really enjoyed the poem, thought a little generational
sandwich
about youth and traveling might be appropriate.
p
Sweet sixteen
Huddled
under a bridge,
cold
fanged breeze
strip
teasing comfort from my back.
Small
green knive nestling
in the
boot.
Beside
the highway, frozen then
diving
headfirst through barbed wire
to miss
the adminastrations of the father of 6.
Taking
a right to the jaw thought I
heard a
phone rang.
gentle
trails of vomit,
eyes
spinning,
life
before me
a
spector of choice.
Where
is my direction.
patricia
RACE
--- wrote:
>
>
somedays when the wind gusts across
>
the Kansas prairie
>
several hundred generations can pass through
> my
numbed mind
>
before the morning coffee is sipped.
>
>
other days, a single generation
>
may last several thousand years
>
amidst an afternoon siesta
>
>
amazing sometimes
>
that we are so easily distracted
>
distracted
> distracted and some distraught
> by
our biological ages
>
our placement in
> this era
> this generation
> not that
> oh
that i could have lived in Ancient Egypt
>
that would be hip
>
but you have lived in Ancient Egypt
> oh
yeah, i forgot
>
got trapped in that
>
biological name my generation angst blues
>
> am
i in your generation
>
sometimes
> am
i in my generation
>
sometimes
> am
i even i let alone
> we
we
>
>
time for one of those siestas david
> not
yet i just woke up
> oh
yeah - maybe coffee will help
>
where was i
>
>
generations
> oh
>
older and younger
>
that old age gap twisting brains
>
Eisenhower evil or still President in my mind
> i
was so much older than i'm younger than that now
>
>
this morning i feel a good 98 or so
>
yesterday had a brief period of 900
>
today maybe jump backwards
>
following Merlin through time's mist
>
and spend an hour or two as
> a
twenty-somethinger to see how it fits.
>
>
sad sometimes that our connectedness
>
gets bracketed by numbers
> on
a paper called a birth certificate.
>
>
traditions - are they generational?
>
depends on which ones i suppose
>
it's all been done somewhere between
>
Abilene and Ur
> on
a windy morning
> or
a dark and stormy night
>
>
Snoopy kicks me away from the keyboard
> to
type an opus
> to
the sad corporatism of the Dilbert generation
>
>
have fun snoop.
>
>
morning all.
>
>
david rhaesa
>
salina, Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 22:58:10 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
We've
got BEAT SPIRIT in stock. There are a
number of other new Beat items
available
now too... books, videos and a new Kerouac/Cassady T-Shirt which is
pretty
cool (the picture taken by Carolyn Cassady that graces the cover of
THE
FIRST THIRD).
Our new
Christmas Catalog is ready to ship next week.
E-mail your snail mail
address
or visit our website (www.kerouac.com) or call 1-800-KER-OUAC or fax
(408)-372-1860.
Jerry
Cimino
Fog
City Facts & Fiction
P.O.
Box 48
Monterey,
CA 93942
1-800-KER-OUAC
www.kerouac.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 22:58:28 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: generation x
Tyson,
I was
always under the impression Gen X (as commonly used) referred
specifically
to a certain age category. Your
"insert X as a variable
component"
and the idea that X is an attitude is a nifty thought, but I don't
think
most people view it that way. Most
people see the Volkswagen
commercial
- "Duh Duh Duh".
Jerry
Cimino
Fog
City
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 23:22:50 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Eric Craig Sapp
<ecs4m@SERVER1.MAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Remember Guy Fawkes!
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
"A
penny for the old guy!"
On Wed,
5 Nov 1997 20:00:46 BST Tom Harberd
<T.E.Harberd@UEA.AC.UK>
wrote:
>
The fifth of Novemeber... probably doesn't mean much to the
>
Americans on the list, but to us Brits... it doesn't really
>
mean much either! But I like to think
that Guy Fawkes was
>
perhaps one of the first to strike a blow for freedom of the
>
individual in this country.
> I
think WSB would have appreciated Guido too.
Maybe he did
> (I
sorta remember him saying something about it.)
>
Anyhow, happy Bonfire Night!
>
>
Tom. H.
>
http://www.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759
>
"That's it, I'm done, stick a fork in me."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 22:28:45 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Remember Guy Fawkes!
MIME-Version:
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Eric
Craig Sapp wrote:
>
>
"A penny for the old guy!"
>
> On
Wed, 5 Nov 1997 20:00:46 BST Tom Harberd
>
<T.E.Harberd@UEA.AC.UK> wrote:
>
>
> The fifth of Novemeber... probably doesn't mean much to the
>
> Americans on the list, but to us Brits... it doesn't really
>
> mean much either! But I like to
think that Guy Fawkes was
>
> perhaps one of the first to strike a blow for freedom of the
>
> individual in this country.
>
> I think WSB would have appreciated Guido too. Maybe he did
>
> (I sorta remember him saying something about it.)
>
> Anyhow, happy Bonfire Night!
>
>
>
> Tom. H.
>
> http://www.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759
>
> "That's it, I'm done, stick a fork in me."
GF day
is also the day in the book "Mary Poppins Opens the Door". (a
beat
classic <grin>)
dbr
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 00:17:46 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: generation x
MIME-Version:
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>I
was always under the impression Gen X (as commonly used) referred
>specifically
to a certain age category. Your
"insert X as a variable
>component"
and the idea that X is an attitude is a nifty thought, but I
>don't
>think
most people view it that way. Most
people see the Volkswagen
>commercial
- "Duh Duh Duh".
that commercial, btw, is the essence of
my generation.. kudos to
the
brains at VW
what i said was always mt understanding
of generation x, i mean,
it
doesn't make much sense to call my generation gen x... that seems
to be
the common conception... i'd like to know who coined the phrase
and the
context in which it was used.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 22:19:17 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: ANNE ELIZABETH SNEDDON
<sneddon@NEVADA.EDU>
Subject: Re: generation x
In-Reply-To:
<msg1179387.thr-d644050f.55d4a82@umit.maine.edu>
MIME-Version:
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The
phrase 'Generation X' comes from the novel (same name....). The name
of the
author escapes me (Brett Easton Ellis??) It was an extremely
popular
book in the late 80's-early 90's. I
guess this guy singlehandedly
"invented"
the whole concept of gen x.
Anne
Sneddon
On Thu,
6 Nov 1997, Tyson Ouellette wrote:
>
>I was always under the impression Gen X (as commonly used) referred
>
>specifically to a certain age category.
Your "insert X as a variable
>
>component" and the idea that X is an attitude is a nifty thought, but
I
>
>don't
>
>think most people view it that way.
Most people see the Volkswagen
>
>commercial - "Duh Duh Duh".
>
> that commercial, btw, is the essence of
my generation.. kudos to
>
the brains at VW
> what i said was always mt understanding
of generation x, i mean,
> it
doesn't make much sense to call my generation gen x... that seems
> to
be the common conception... i'd like to know who coined the phrase
>
and the context in which it was used.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 02:07:06 -0800
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Dharma for breakfast!
MIME-Version:
1.0
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EMPTINESS
OF TASTE
What do Cornflakes & Sugar taste
to the wooden bowl? It is only an
arbitrary
conception of my solitary taste-organ, my tongue, this "taste"
of
Cornflakes & Sugar, the "taste" has no substantiality of
existence
outside
of my tongue and its taste-mind and its taste-mind...Where does
taste
come from? If it came from the tongue only, it wouldnt come from
the
cornflakes, then how could you taste cornflakes instead of dry
leaves?
If it came from the cornflakes only, how would the tongue tell?
If it
came from both, this consciousness of taste, from both tongue and
cornflakes,
then where's the dividing line of this split-up
consciousness
and where does this arbitrary line go when you're not
tasting
anything at all?
SOME OF
THE DHARMA (p.105)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 00:18:36 -0800
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: This Post Says Nothing About Gen X
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Probably
nearly a year ago I remember a discussion which raised the
whole
question of the relationship between the indigenous San Francisco
poetry
scene and the New York Beats in the persons of JK and AG. San
Francisco
and Berkeley in the 30-'s and 40's had a bohemia that was a
wonderful
mixture of anarchism, pacificism, labor activism and
buddhism. This was the mileu of Rexroth, Duncan,
Lamantia, Everson ,
Jack
Spicer and others. Reading David
Meltzer's interviews with Rexroth
and
Everson I was especially struck by Everson's succinct analysis of
this
relationship.
>
>
William Everson- (Brother Antoninus)-
>
> That's why I always indentified with
the Beat Generation--the point
>
you're making just now. I'd never let
any negative aura around the beat
>
image deter me from the primacy of that fact.
It put poetry back on
>
the platform. We had been trying for a
whole decade to get something
>
like the Beat Generation going. We
tried it back in the late forties
>
with Rexroth, and were sucessful enough to get attacked in "Harpers"
as
>
"The New Cult of Sex and Anarchy."
But the nation as a whole wasn't
>
ready for it, what with the postwar preoccupation and the cold-war
>
freeze. It took Korea and the second
Eisenhower administration to make
>
the country ready. It took the man in
the gray flannel suit as the
>
national image and the crew cut as the prevailing college mode. The
>
tranquilzed fifties. I remember that
Life magazine titled its big
>
feature on the beats "The Only Rebellion Around," almost begging for
>
dissent. Now they've got their belly
full of it.
>
> As I say, out here in SF we were
ready for it long before the rest of
>
the country, but we couldn't have pulled it off alone. It took something
>
outside ourselves, something from the East Coast to make a true
>
"conjuntio oppositorium":, a conjunctionof the opposites. As it turned out
>
Allen Ginsberg and Jack Kerouac provided the ingredients. They came
>
out to San Franciusco and found themselves, and it was their finding
>
that sparked us. Without them it would
never have happened.
>
J.
Stauffer
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 09:09:10 -0500
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From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: generation x
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.OSF.3.96.971105221715.12066A-100000@pioneer.nevada.edu>
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As far
as I know it was Douglas Copeland's books written in the early to
mid
eighties. I think it comes from the one
entitled Generation X, though
that
may be based on something from his earlier stuff, I'm not
knowledgeable
on his dates of publication. Though
people my age
(younger/older)
who are stuck in this thing may like to think they're
something
special, they're not. No more than any
other and a lot less
that
some others, its just a unique time and the first generation to grow
up in
and under the influence of a cultural trend that is so wacky it
doesn't
have a real name. It is a generational
label not "an attitude".
That's
baloney (nothing personal). Its because
this generation hasn't any
sweeping
characteristics or attitudes that it has expressed as a whole.
The
only thing common is that there is nothing common, hence the variable
label
"x".
------------------
Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 09:23:27 -0500
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From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: generation x
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.971105221715.12066A-100000@pioneer.nevada.edu>
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Wasn't
"Generation X" written by Douglas Coupland of Shampoo Planet fame?
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 09:35:28 EST
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 5 Nov 1997 17:08:51 -0800
from <donahujl@BC.EDU>
I think
the "Beat Spirit" is a sincere effort and there's no question
that
the author knows and understands the works of Burroughs, Ginsberg,
Kerouac
and the other authors he draws on. The
bibliographies he
includes
are up-to-date and useful.
Nevertheless, a book of this type
seems
somewhat of a pradox to me given the Beat Generation's stree on
spontaneity
and originality. Can you strengthen and
celebrate your
uniqueness
and individuality by following a blueprint?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 15:36:48 UT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
Blueprints
are mere guidelines at best. ask any
architect or contractor how
many
times blueprints have had to be redrawn for one reason or another during
the
construction of a building.
i don't
know the book, but maybe it's just someone's attempt to explain what
they
generally conceive of as Beat qualities?
ciao,
sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Bill Gargan
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 1997 6:35 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: what would Kerouac think....
I think
the "Beat Spirit" is a sincere effort and there's no question
that
the author knows and understands the works of Burroughs, Ginsberg,
Kerouac
and the other authors he draws on. The
bibliographies he
includes
are up-to-date and useful.
Nevertheless, a book of this type
seems
somewhat of a pradox to me given the Beat Generation's stree on
spontaneity
and originality. Can you strengthen and
celebrate your
uniqueness
and individuality by following a blueprint?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 11:44:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marlene Giraud <M84M79@AOL.COM>
Subject: The highway's calling....
Dear
friends,
well,
i'm off this weekend and i'm thrilled about it. just thought i'd let
the
list know how happy i am to be hitting the pavement in just a few hours.
my
sister and i are driving up to pensacola for the weekend. it should be a
real
good time. just wanted to let you all know in case anyone would need me.
BTW,
Marie, the money's in the mail, and Gerry, the t-shirts arrived safe and
sound.
I love them! Okay, have a wondeful weekend kiddos. Take it easy,
~~Marlene
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 16:22:39 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Tom <T.E.Harberd@UEA.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Jack "not fond" of
homosexuals
Mime-Version:
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BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU,.Internet
writes:
> I wonder what gave you the impression
that Jack wasn't fond of
>homosexuals.
He did
say in On The Road that he used to wander around with a gun, and when
peeople
came up to him in toilets he'd threaten them with it in case they were
homosexuals.
Tom. H.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 13:56:00 -0500
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From: "L.W. Deal"
<RoadSide6@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: generation x
The
author of the superslick superstupid superselling novel _Generation X_
was one
Douglas Coupland.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 14:03:31 -0500
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From: "L.W. Deal"
<RoadSide6@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: generation x
In a
message dated 97-11-05 19:50:26 EST, Tyson writes:
<< I think that, in this discussion, there
is a misconception about
what gen x is. it's not the young generation now, it isn't defined by
age; gen x is more an "attitude,"
an inability to categorize oneself
within any one generational tendency. dig what i'm saying? that's why
it's gen X, x is the unknown variable in a
manner of speaking. That
sound right?
>>
Agreed,
completely with your comment Tyson. However, I see the whole tag
"GenX"
as nothing more than the media's constant insatiable urge to
categorize....
I dunno, the whole thing bores me all to hell.
The term Gen X
comes
originally not from Coupland's book but rather, 'twas the name of a
rather
energetic (and quite good for its time) band headed by none other than
that
snarling blondie Billy Idol -- hehe.
Let's all rent "Reality Bites" and
see our
so-called lives lived out before us by those foxes Ethan Hawke &
Winona
Ryder <wink wink>
Blah
blah blah...
Kisses
& Starfishes.
"...and a . . . nurse, giving me
a sleeping pill, says I can't sleep because
of a
guilty conscience concerning the...Church; of course I can sleep, I want
free
goofballs; of course I'm guilty, I'm after knowledge not salvation..."
Jack
Kerouac