=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 05:21:48 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Jack Kerouac's Partial Reading List

In-Reply-To:  <1.5.4.32.19971112101608.006add28@pop.pipeline.com>

MIME-version: 1.0

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> Put your additions at the bottom of the list so that there will be some

> organization to this. Thanks, P.

 

> >>>>A Partial Reading list of Jack Kerouac that is documented here and there:

> >>>>

> >>>>  Galsworthy: Forsyte Saga

> >>>>  Shakespeare - everything

> >>>>  Thomas Wolfe - everything

> >>>>  D.H. Lawrence - The Rainbow

> >>>>  William Blake - Marriage of Heaven and Hell

> >>>>  Oswald Spengler - The Decline of the West

> >>>>  Celine - Journey To the End of the Night, Death On the Installment Plan,

> >>>>           Guignol's Band

> >>>>  Melville - Omoo, Typee, Billy Budd, Moby Dick, Encantandas

> >>>>  Jack London

> >>>>  Vladamir Nabokov - Lolita

> >>>>  The Bible

> >>>>  Indian Scriptures

> >>>>  The Buddhist Bible

> >>>>  Ernest Hemingway

> >>>>  William Faulkner- Pylon

> >>>>  Thomas Mann

> >>>>  Alain Fournier - Le Grand Meaulnes

> >>>>  Daniel Defoe - Robinson Crusoe

> >>>>  Edward Spenser - Complete Poems

> >>>>  Matthew Arnold - Study of Celtic Literature

> >>>>  A number of Buddhist texts

> >>>>  Fyodor Dostoevsky - probably everything

> >>>>  Gogol - Dead Souls

> >>>>  Theodore Dreiser - Sister Carrie

> >>>>  Lawrence Ferlinghetti

> >>>>  Gustave Flaubert - Salammbo

> >>>>  James Joyce - Ulysses, Finnehan's Wake, Portrait of the Artist As a

> >>Young Man

> >>>>  John Keats

> >>>>  Lin Yutang - Wisdom of China and India

> >>>>  Francis Parkman - The Oregon Trail

> >>>>  Honore de Balzac

> >>>>  A Biography of George Washington

> >>>>  W.H. Auden

> >>>>  Ezra Pound

> >>>>  Francois Rabelais

> >>>>  William Saroyan

> >>>>  Alan Harrington - The Secret Swinger

> >>>>  Arthur Rimbaud

> >>>>  The Tibetan Book of the Dead

> >>>>  John Reed - Ten Days That Shook the World

> >>>>  Leo Tolstoy - War and Peace

> >>>>  H.G. Wells - The Outline of History, The Science of Life

> >>>>  John Steinbeck - East of Eden

> >>>>  Giovanni Boccacio - The Decameron

> >>>>  Kafka - The Castle

> >>>>  Edgar Allan Poe

> >>>>  Jean Cocteau - Opium, The Blood of a Poet

> >>>>  Stendahl - The Red and the Black

> >>>>  William Penn - Maxims

> >>>>  Greek Philosophy

> >>>>  The Shadow

> >>>>  William Reich - The Function of the Orgasm

> >>>>  Mark Twain

> >>>>  Yeats

> >>>>  Gertrude Stein

> >>>>  T.S. Eliot

> >>>>  Walt Whitman - Leaves of Grass

> >>    W.H. Auden

> >>    e.e. cummings

> >>    Emily Dickinson

> >>    Henry David Thoreau

> >>    Ralph Waldo Emerson

> >     Robert Frost (Sherri)

> >     42nd Parallel (Letter to Alfred Kazin) Bill Gargan

 

Jean Genet  (Good Blonde & Others, p.90--I know I've seen other references

             but can't find them at the moment)

 

*******

Jeff Taylor

taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

*******

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 05:26:47 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Jack Kerouac's Partial Reading List

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Paul A. Maher Jr. wrote:

>

> Put your additions at the bottom of the list so that there will be some

> organization to this. Thanks, P.

> >

> >----------

> >From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Paul A. Maher Jr.

> >Sent:   Tuesday, November 11, 1997 7:01 PM

> >To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

> >Subject:        Re: Jack Kerouac's Partial Reading List

> >

> >Maybe if we follow Bill Gargan's example and place a date and source for the

> >info we can accomplish our own research. Obviously I got a lot to catch up

> >on but most of this I knew off the top of my head. I would just add the name

> >to the bottom of the list with the appropriate source and name of

> >contributor if you'd like. Let's see what we can come up with. I will then

> >transfer the list to the web page with credit for the Beat-l. This will give

> >the list some publicity as I get a lot of people who visit who aren't here

> >on the list.

> >  I was thinking of starting the same kind of list with a chronological

> >order to Jack's road trips and persoanl residences. Paul..

> >>                ****************

> >>>

> >>>>A Partial Reading list of Jack Kerouac that is documented here and there:

> >>>>

> >>>>  Galsworthy: Forsyte Saga

> >>>>  Shakespeare - everything

> >>>>  Thomas Wolfe - everything

> >>>>  D.H. Lawrence - The Rainbow

> >>>>  William Blake - Marriage of Heaven and Hell

> >>>>  Oswald Spengler - The Decline of the West

> >>>>  Celine - Journey To the End of the Night, Death On the Installment Plan,

> >>>>           Guignol's Band

> >>>>  Melville - Omoo, Typee, Billy Budd, Moby Dick, Encantandas

> >>>>  Jack London

> >>>>  Vladamir Nabokov - Lolita

> >>>>  The Bible

> >>>>  Indian Scriptures

 

interested in what specifically here.

 

> >>>>  The Buddhist Bible

> >>>>  Ernest Hemingway

> >>>>  William Faulkner- Pylon

> >>>>  Thomas Mann

> >>>>  Alain Fournier - Le Grand Meaulnes

> >>>>  Daniel Defoe - Robinson Crusoe

> >>>>  Edward Spenser - Complete Poems

> >>>>  Matthew Arnold - Study of Celtic Literature

> >>>>  A number of Buddhist texts

 

wondering about specifics

 

> >>>>  Fyodor Dostoevsky - probably everything

> >>>>  Gogol - Dead Souls

> >>>>  Theodore Dreiser - Sister Carrie

> >>>>  Lawrence Ferlinghetti

> >>>>  Gustave Flaubert - Salammbo

> >>>>  James Joyce - Ulysses, Finnehan's Wake, Portrait of the Artist As a

> >>Young Man

> >>>>  John Keats

> >>>>  Lin Yutang - Wisdom of China and India

> >>>>  Francis Parkman - The Oregon Trail

> >>>>  Honore de Balzac

> >>>>  A Biography of George Washington

> >>>>  W.H. Auden

> >>>>  Ezra Pound

> >>>>  Francois Rabelais

> >>>>  William Saroyan

> >>>>  Alan Harrington - The Secret Swinger

> >>>>  Arthur Rimbaud

> >>>>  The Tibetan Book of the Dead

> >>>>  John Reed - Ten Days That Shook the World

> >>>>  Leo Tolstoy - War and Peace

> >>>>  H.G. Wells - The Outline of History, The Science of Life

> >>>>  John Steinbeck - East of Eden

> >>>>  Giovanni Boccacio - The Decameron

> >>>>  Kafka - The Castle

> >>>>  Edgar Allan Poe

> >>>>  Jean Cocteau - Opium, The Blood of a Poet

> >>>>  Stendahl - The Red and the Black

> >>>>  William Penn - Maxims

> >>>>  Greek Philosophy

 

this seemed particularly vague to me - sort of like saying 20th century

novels.... :)

 

> >>>>  The Shadow

> >>>>  William Reich - The Function of the Orgasm

> >>>>  Mark Twain

> >>>>  Yeats

> >>>>  Gertrude Stein

> >>>>  T.S. Eliot

> >>>>  Walt Whitman - Leaves of Grass

> >>    W.H. Auden

> >>    e.e. cummings

> >>    Emily Dickinson

> >>    Henry David Thoreau

> >>    Ralph Waldo Emerson

> >     Robert Frost (Sherri)

> >     42nd Parallel (Letter to Alfred Kazin) Bill Gargan

 

goodness he read a lot.  i'm still wondering about his reading habits.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

 

 

> >>>>  Now this does not mean that he was influenced by all this...he is simply

> >>>>documented in journals, letters, notebooks etc.in his own hand that he had

> >>read them. Some he didn't like, such as Gertrude Stein and T.S. Eliot. feel

> >>free to add to this list and I will post a final version on The Kerouac

> >>Quarterly Web

> >>>>Site and the quarterly. Thanks, Paul...

> >>>>

> >>>>                 (courtesy of The Kerouac Quarterly)

> >>>>"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

> >>>>                                           Henry David Thoreau

> >>>>

> >>> Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

> >>>

> >>>    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never

> >>>cease to be amused."

> >>>

> >>"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

> >>                                           Henry David Thoreau

> >>

> >"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

> >                                           Henry David Thoreau

> >

> "We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

>                                            Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 07:37:36 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: response to Bloom: exploding the Canon II

MIME-Version: 1.0

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              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

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antoine and tyson: (and anyone else)

i have some of ron's latest poems someplace, smaller, more lyrical, and i

have I WILL NOT BOW DOWN in which that poem you typed in was published, in

that book my favorite poem is ALCHEMICAL RANT against time, would love to

type it in but my fingers are still sprained. i'll rummage about and see

what i have saved on disk.

saw ron in louisville at the bohemian list RANT: he read "peonies" which is

absolutely beautiful, lyrical poem. i should have that one too. oh me oh my

what a mess my desk is.

i think you can order I WILL NOT BOW DOWN through ron, if there are any

left. it's an aboslutley beautiful book, many color illustrations:

paintings by ferlinghetti and david minton.

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 08:02:31 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      great american novel

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_Venus on a half shell_ by kilgore trout.

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 08:46:09 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Jack Kerouac reading e.e.cummings

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Eric,

 

        Thanks very much Eric. That gives me the impetus to search these out

- perhaps at McGill's Library.

 

        Antoine

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never

cease to be amused."

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 09:12:00 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Preston Whaley <paw8670@MAILER.FSU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: great american novel

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

This list is fascinating  and growing fatter, healthier. Wondering if

anyone has read and likes/hates/indifferent to E.L. Doctorow?  A few

titles: Daniel, Ragtime, Loon Lake, Worlds Fair, Billy Bathgate, The

Waterworks.  To me, his books evince poignant, lyrical, encyclopedic,

historical, American, tragic voice like no other.

 

Preston

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 15:18:39 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Jack Kerouac's Partial Reading List

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Jeff Taylor

Sent:   Wednesday, November 12, 1997 3:21 AM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Re: Jack Kerouac's Partial Reading List

 

> Put your additions at the bottom of the list so that there will be some

> organization to this. Thanks, P.

 

> >>>>A Partial Reading list of Jack Kerouac that is documented here and

there:

> >>>>

> >>>>  Galsworthy: Forsyte Saga

> >>>>  Shakespeare - everything

> >>>>  Thomas Wolfe - everything

> >>>>  D.H. Lawrence - The Rainbow

> >>>>  William Blake - Marriage of Heaven and Hell

> >>>>  Oswald Spengler - The Decline of the West

> >>>>  Celine - Journey To the End of the Night, Death On the Installment

Plan,

> >>>>           Guignol's Band

> >>>>  Melville - Omoo, Typee, Billy Budd, Moby Dick, Encantandas

> >>>>  Jack London

> >>>>  Vladamir Nabokov - Lolita

> >>>>  The Bible

> >>>>  Indian Scriptures

> >>>>  The Buddhist Bible

> >>>>  Ernest Hemingway

> >>>>  William Faulkner- Pylon

> >>>>  Thomas Mann

> >>>>  Alain Fournier - Le Grand Meaulnes

> >>>>  Daniel Defoe - Robinson Crusoe

> >>>>  Edward Spenser - Complete Poems

> >>>>  Matthew Arnold - Study of Celtic Literature

> >>>>  A number of Buddhist texts

> >>>>  Fyodor Dostoevsky - probably everything

> >>>>  Gogol - Dead Souls

> >>>>  Theodore Dreiser - Sister Carrie

> >>>>  Lawrence Ferlinghetti

> >>>>  Gustave Flaubert - Salammbo

> >>>>  James Joyce - Ulysses, Finnehan's Wake, Portrait of the Artist As a

> >>Young Man

> >>>>  John Keats

> >>>>  Lin Yutang - Wisdom of China and India

> >>>>  Francis Parkman - The Oregon Trail

> >>>>  Honore de Balzac

> >>>>  A Biography of George Washington

> >>>>  W.H. Auden

> >>>>  Ezra Pound

> >>>>  Francois Rabelais

> >>>>  William Saroyan

> >>>>  Alan Harrington - The Secret Swinger

> >>>>  Arthur Rimbaud

> >>>>  The Tibetan Book of the Dead

> >>>>  John Reed - Ten Days That Shook the World

> >>>>  Leo Tolstoy - War and Peace

> >>>>  H.G. Wells - The Outline of History, The Science of Life

> >>>>  John Steinbeck - East of Eden

> >>>>  Giovanni Boccacio - The Decameron

> >>>>  Kafka - The Castle

> >>>>  Edgar Allan Poe

> >>>>  Jean Cocteau - Opium, The Blood of a Poet

> >>>>  Stendahl - The Red and the Black

> >>>>  William Penn - Maxims

> >>>>  Greek Philosophy

> >>>>  The Shadow

> >>>>  William Reich - The Function of the Orgasm

> >>>>  Mark Twain

> >>>>  Yeats

> >>>>  Gertrude Stein

> >>>>  T.S. Eliot

> >>>>  Walt Whitman - Leaves of Grass

> >>    W.H. Auden

> >>    e.e. cummings

> >>    Emily Dickinson

> >>    Henry David Thoreau

> >>    Ralph Waldo Emerson

> >     Robert Frost (Sherri)

> >     42nd Parallel (Letter to Alfred Kazin) Bill Gargan

 

Jean Genet  (Good Blonde & Others, p.90--I know I've seen other references

             but can't find them at the moment)

 

*******

Jeff Taylor

taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

*******

 

Ginsberg, Burroughs, Corso, McClure, di Prima, Rexroth, Cassady because they

were all friends and discussed their work...

 

Rimbaud (1960 or before)  wrote the poem "Rimbaud" in 1960, it's in "Scattered

Poems"

 

Proust, Samuel Johnson, Boswell, Dante, Cervantes, Hesse (Steppenwolf),

Nietzsche, R. L. Stevenson (Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde) because he mentions them in

"Big Sur"  (1962) (this may be a partial listing - haven't had a chance to go

through the entire book)

 

sherri

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 08:23:53 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>

Organization: Calgary Free-Net

Subject:      Re: great american novel

In-Reply-To:  <199711121303.IAA19952@pike.sover.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

ah- and there is a great story behind this book!

you see kilgore trout is a character in vonnegut's novels ( mostly in

_breakfast of champions_) who writes 2nd rate scifi stories that only get

published in porn mags (if i remember correctly) with changed titles. Jose

Phillip Farmer read _breakfast of champions_ and enjoyed it so much that

he asked vonnegut if he could write a book BY "kilgore trout". which he

did and thus _venus on the half-shell_ was born. Farmer went ahead with

his plans and got the book published as by "kilgore trout". Vonnegut didnt

get a dime and the book went into several printing until vonnegt asked

that it be pulled (as far as i remember). if you would like another

AMAZING work w/ a vonnegut connection, check out _Eden Express_ by MArk

Vonnegut (kurt's son). AMAZING!

yrs

derek

 

On Wed, 12 Nov 1997, Marie Countryman wrote:

 

>

> _Venus on a half shell_ by kilgore trout.

> mc

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 11:40:05 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Neil Hennessy <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Farmer

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.A32.3.93.971112081958.65356A-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>

MIME-Version: 1.0

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That Farmer's a crafty guy, it was he, of course, who wrote the ER/WS

Burroughs parody I talked about on the list a while ago...

 

Neil

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 12:01:45 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: hooray for Vonnegut!

In-Reply-To:  <971111231721_1246579019@mrin38>

Mime-Version: 1.0

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I saw  Vonnegut at the Borders Grand Opening in NYC and I told him that I

found it hard to believe that it was his last book, that writing is an

urge and how can you stop having urges. All he said was that he was 75

years old and after that, I lost alittle respect for him.

 

On Tue, 11 Nov 1997, John Gregorio wrote:

 

> For those who have read, and enjoyed, Vonnegut over the years it was a nice

> "goodbye."  Yet, I would have preferred, and I think it would have been a

> better book, if he would have written a book of essays or another type of

> non-fiction.  Maybe an autobiography.

>   Jack Gregorio

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 09:02:53 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: great american novel

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 08:23 AM 11/12/97 -0700, you wrote:

>ah- and there is a great story behind this book!

>you see kilgore trout is a character in vonnegut's novels ( mostly in

>_breakfast of champions_) who writes 2nd rate scifi stories that only get

>published in porn mags (if i remember correctly) with changed titles. Jose

>Phillip Farmer read _breakfast of champions_ and enjoyed it so much that

>he asked vonnegut if he could write a book BY "kilgore trout". which he

>did and thus _venus on the half-shell_ was born. Farmer went ahead with

>his plans and got the book published as by "kilgore trout". Vonnegut didnt

>get a dime and the book went into several printing until vonnegt asked

>that it be pulled (as far as i remember). if you would like another

>AMAZING work w/ a vonnegut connection, check out _Eden Express_ by MArk

>Vonnegut (kurt's son). AMAZING!

>yrs

>derek

 

Yeah, great fun book as I recall.  I also remember the back cover picture of

the author was of a dog wearing a gasmask.

 

And Eden Express is very good but it wil make you think you are going crazy

as well it is so well done.

 

 

>

>On Wed, 12 Nov 1997, Marie Countryman wrote:

>

>>

>> _Venus on a half shell_ by kilgore trout.

>> mc

>>

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 12:27:01 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Neil Hennessy <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Old writers

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.OSF.3.95.971112115835.2512B-100000@is8.nyu.edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Wed, 12 Nov 1997, Nancy B Brodsky wrote:

 

> I saw  Vonnegut at the Borders Grand Opening in NYC and I told him that I

> found it hard to believe that it was his last book, that writing is an

> urge and how can you stop having urges. All he said was that he was 75

> years old and after that, I lost alittle respect for him.

 

WSB retired from the professional writing life, with the words, "Maybe I

just don't have anything left to say"; however he did continue writing in

personal journals. Actually, Burroughs' professional writing life ended

after The Western Lands, since everything else that came out afterwards

was either written before (ie. the reissue of Ghost of Chance) or just

assembled dream journals (ie. My Education). The Western Lands was

published when Burroughs was 73. I can't believe that Vonnegut is doing

nothing creatively, perhaps he is just no longer writing novels. There are

other things in life I suppose.

 

Just some meaningless parallels (unless Burroughs and Vonnegut were

separated at birth).

 

Cheers,

Neil

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:29:16 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>

Organization: Calgary Free-Net

Subject:      mimeograph suggestions...

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

beat-l'ers

a freind of mine has "inherited" a mimeograph machine from a closing

greenpeace office , that we are planning to play with. unfortunately none

of us know how to use said machine and etc...

can anyone recommend a few books, instructions (the machine has none) or

suggestions on mimeograph machine possibilities and usage?

is this possible?

yrs

derek

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 11:53:10 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: mimeograph suggestions...

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.A32.3.93.971112102823.81580B-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Friends,

 

Call REFERENCE at your nearest library.

 

j grant

 

>beat-l'ers

>a freind of mine has "inherited" a mimeograph machine from a closing

>greenpeace office , that we are planning to play with. unfortunately none

>of us know how to use said machine and etc...

>can anyone recommend a few books, instructions (the machine has none) or

>suggestions on mimeograph machine possibilities and usage?

>is this possible?

>yrs

>derek

 

 

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=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 09:57:55 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Old writers

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 12:27 PM 11/12/97 -0500, you wrote:

>On Wed, 12 Nov 1997, Nancy B Brodsky wrote:

>

>> I saw  Vonnegut at the Borders Grand Opening in NYC and I told him that I

>> found it hard to believe that it was his last book, that writing is an

>> urge and how can you stop having urges. All he said was that he was 75

>> years old and after that, I lost alittle respect for him.

>

 

I don't know, but I seem to remember Vonnegut stating that this was his last

book a few books ago.

 

Anyone else remember this?

 

 

>WSB retired from the professional writing life, with the words, "Maybe I

>just don't have anything left to say"; however he did continue writing in

>personal journals. Actually, Burroughs' professional writing life ended

>after The Western Lands, since everything else that came out afterwards

>was either written before (ie. the reissue of Ghost of Chance) or just

>assembled dream journals (ie. My Education). The Western Lands was

>published when Burroughs was 73. I can't believe that Vonnegut is doing

>nothing creatively, perhaps he is just no longer writing novels. There are

>other things in life I suppose.

>

>Just some meaningless parallels (unless Burroughs and Vonnegut were

>separated at birth).

>

>Cheers,

>Neil

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 13:03:05 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marlene Giraud <M84M79@AOL.COM>

Subject:      did JK read....?

 

hi all,

i was just wondering if JK read any Henry Miller, he discusses a visit n BIG

SUR, so i'm assuming he did. if so does anybody know the particular novel?

Does this mean he could've read Anais Nin's diaries? maybe one of you can

answer.....

thanks,

~~Marlene

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:16:35 -0800

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Everson and Dreiser

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Nancy's interaction with Vonnegut reminded me of the wonderful story

William Everson tells of meeting Theodore Dreiser.  Everson was in a

Conscientious Ojector camp in Waldport, Ore. during the War.  On

furlough he and another poet (James Harmon) went to SF by bus down the

coast.

 

"As we boarded the bus at Marshfield (JS--now Coos Bay) I noticed a man

who seemed familiar.  I said to myself ' That man looks like Theodore

Dreiser'.  Harmon said it couldn't be, but Jeffers had spoken of Dreiser

as a 'tough old mastadon,' and that's just the way he looked.  Hulking

shoulders. Slack jaws.  Strangely inattentive eyes that missed nothing.

Even in his phtographs his configuration was unmistakable.

 

. . .

 

At Gold Beach we pulled in for lunch.  By this time I was sure it was

Dreiser.  As Harmon and I got ready to sit down Harmon forgot about

lunch and followed the man into the lavatory.  He came out as if he had

found gold on that beach.  'It's him!' he exclamed excitedly.  'It's

Dreiser all right. Come on!

 

Even as I got up I had my misgivings but curiousity got the better of

judgement.  Dreiser was standing at the urinal relieving himself, and

not knowing what to else to do I began to talk.  I had never read any of

his books, so I began with us.  It was a fatal mistake.

 

'Mr. Dreiser,' I began,'we're two poets on furlough from a camp in

Waldport.  We are going down to San Francisco.  We hope to meet some of

the other writers there and renew our aquantance with the literary scene

. . .'

 

Dreiser looked at me and I suddently discovered I had nothing more to

say.  He slowly buttoned his fly and as he turned to wash his hands, he

said two words with extreme irony: 'So what!'

 

Then he started in.  Ripping a paper towel from the rack, he crumbled it

in those feasome hands and proceeded with contempt.  'There are

thousands of you.  You crawl about the country from conference to

literary conference.  You claim to be writers, but what do you ever

produce?  Not one of you will amount to a goddamn.  You have only the

itch to write, nothing more . . .the insatiable itch to express

yourself.  Everywhere I go I run into you, and I'm sick you you.  The

world is being torn apart in agony, crying out for the truth, the

terrible truth.  And you . . '.  He paused and his voice seemed suddenly

to grow weary. 'You have nothing to say.'

 

I turned to go.  Harmon was already gone.  Opening the door into the

restaurant, I looked back to let him know how sorry I was that I had

accosted him, but I couldn't open my mouth.  Then Dreiser stepped past

me, as if I had opened the door only for him.  For a moment the contempt

seemed to fade from his face and a kind of geniality gleamed there.

'Well,' he said, 'take it easy.  It lasts longer that way.' Then he was

gone.

 

Not really gone.  His seat was ahead of ours, and we had already noticed

that he was travelling with a young woman.  After Gold Beach, aware of

our presence behind him, he kept stiffly aloof, convrsing with her

circumspectly.  But far down the coast, at the end of a long hot

afternoon, when everyone was collapsed with fatigue, she could stand it

no longer.  Reaching out her hand she stroked with tender fondness the

balding head.  Dazed with exhaustion he accepted it gratefully until he

remembered us.  Suddenly thrashing his head like a mastodon caught

redhanded in a pterodactyl's nest he flung the hand from him.  She never

tried that again.

 

from Golden Gate, Interviews with Five Poets--david meltzer.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:21:43 -0800

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: mimeograph suggestions...

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> can anyone recommend a few books, instructions (the machine has none) or

> suggestions on mimeograph machine possibilities and usage?

> is this possible?

 

What a relic!  I used to use the damn things but have mercifully

forgotten most of it.  Have no idea where to find books--or probably

even harder, supplies.  You need stencils and stuff.  After than you

just put in the stencil and crank away.  And of course you have to be a

very accurate typist and own a typewriter (remember those) because as I

recall it is almost impossible to correct. I most clearly remember the

smell of the fluid.  There were also "ditto's"  maybe you could find one

of those too!

 

J Stauffer

 

J Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 13:30:29 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M .Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: did JK read....?

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 01:03 PM 12/11/97 -0500, Marlene wrote:

 

>i was just wondering if JK read any Henry Miller,

>he discusses a visit n BIG SUR, so i'm assuming he

>did. if so does anybody know the particular novel?

>Does this mean he could've read Anais Nin's diaries?

>maybe one of you can answer.....

 

I believe  _The Air-Conditioned Nightmare_ was

a big one.  At a reading in Toronto, last November, Ginsberg

talked about this.  He mentioned the above novel, and

said that they had heard a recording of Miller reading

and were very taken with it.

 

I believe there were a number of Miller novels in the

list Jeffrey posted.  I also remember reading

somewhere (_Memory Babe_?) that he met Anais Nin

and played one of his recordings for her.

 

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 13:41:36 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Mimeo Machine

 

Derek:

There's a fellow up in Vancouver who puts out a zine on a mimeograph machine.

The name of the zine is "Ralph: Coffee, Jazz, Poetry."

Contact Ralph Alfonso at www.bongobeat.com

He'll be glad to help you out...

Jeffrey

Water Row Books

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 09:19:47 -0800

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: hooray for Vonnegut!

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Nancy,

 

Hasn't the guy earned the right to do what he wants to!  Writing is an

urge, also damn hard work.  Seems to me he is entitled.  A lot of damn

nerve, I would say, to lose respect for the man on this point.  The

moral superiority the young feel toward the old is always a source of

amazement. Does he owe you a few more books?

 

J. Stauffer

 

Nancy B Brodsky wrote:

I

> found it hard to believe that it was his last book, that writing is an

> urge and how can you stop having urges. All he said was that he was 75

> years old and after that, I lost alittle respect for him.

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 13:17:30 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: Interest from the Illiterate  Re: The Great American Novel

MIME-Version: 1.0

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>well, i like my ocean idea as well, but now we have to classify it,

>and then name it, and then assign it a place in relation to all

>other oceans...does it ever stop?

 

     why, it's the best ocean of course, it has to be.. the new stuff

always is, and then it's replaced..

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 13:26:41 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: Old writers

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>On Wed, 12 Nov 1997, Nancy B Brodsky wrote:

>>> I saw  Vonnegut at the Borders Grand Opening in NYC and I told him

>that I

>>> found it hard to believe that it was his last book, that writing is

>an

>>> urge and how can you stop having urges. All he said was that he was

>75

>>> years old and after that, I lost alittle respect for him.

 

    yeow! harshness!  i have to wonder if the ideal you're holding him

up to is a little unreal.  i'm sure he has his reasons, and just

because he says it's his last book doesn't mean it will be, nor does it

mean he's without the compulsion to write.  writing isn't all fun,

flowers, and sunny days, and neither is knowing you have the virus.  it

can be like drug or alcohol addiction, i can remember more than one

occasion in which i sorely needed to free myself from it, i wasn't able

to, and i enjoy writing, but just because you're forced to do something

by whatever cosmic branding iron's poking you in the ass, doesn't mean

you have to like it, you know?  it can be a little overwhelming

sometimes, needing to do something that badly but either being unable

to or simply not wanting to.  for my part i wish him luck in trying to

escape it, 'cause he's probably gonna need it.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 19:56:45 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      9-9 by R.E.M. (fragment)

In-Reply-To:  <199711121757.JAA20874@hsc.usc.edu>

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        9-9                                             by R.E.M.

 

        Steady repetition is a compulsion

        mutually reenforced.

        Now what does that mean?

        Is there a just contradiction?

        Nothing much.

        Now I lay me down to sleep,

        I pray the Lord my soul to keep.

        If I should die before I wake,

        I pray the Lord, hesitate.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 13:11:51 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Another Kerouac and The Great American novel

In-Reply-To:  <199711120033.QAA15314@hsc.usc.edu>

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11-11-97 "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU> wrote

 

>Philip K. Dick (good call by John)

>

>Zora Neale Hurston (a totally amazing oeuvre from anthropology to fiction

>and it's all part of the same whole)

 

Freetings:

 

All the books mentioned deserve being on the list, but with the addition of

Hurston's name I thought I'd jump in with some I feel strongly about and

simply could not be without:

 

The Golden Bowl by Frderick Manfred

Daughter of Earth by Agnes Smedley

Yonnondio: From the Thirties by Tillie Olsen (also her Tell Me A Riddle)

The Dread Road, & The Girl by Meridel LeSueur (and Women in the Breadlines.

See Ripening:The Writings of Meridle LeSueur from Feminist Press for

samples of her work--shsort story Moonbeams will tear your heart out.)

To Make My Bread by Grace Lumpkin

The People From Heaven by John Sanford

Salome of the Tenements by Ansia Yezieska

 

Nelson Algren,

Jack Conroy,

Richard Wright,

Zona Gale,

T. Drieser.

 

I have an interesting and enlightening review of LeSueur's The Dread Road

along with commentary about LeSueur by poet Chuck Miller at:

 

http://www.bookzen.com/books/0000066.html (Links to review and analysis)

 

In this article and review, written shortly before LeSueur died, Miller wrote:

 

"Henry Miller, Keraouc and Bukowski are all dead. There is no one else left

of LeSueur's stature in American literature today. She stands alone, a

giant, waiting to be discovered by her own nation."

 

(Background story: Miller is teaching a couple of courses in Iowa City, on

his own. The university  will not touch him as a result of an incident that

happened in a math class he was taking.

 

(Aside: Miller has advanced degrees in math, chemistry, biology, English,

and physics but he rarely is emplyed. Mostly tutoring. I think most

teachers would love tobe able to be as outspoken about literature,poetry

and teaching as Miller is, but survival demands grater degrees of

conformity.)

 

So he's in this math calss--being taught by the head of the department--and

the Prof sees Chuck and makes a stupidly, disparaging remark about Chuck

and his poetry. Chuck stands and announces that he doesn't have a problem

with people being critical of his poetry, as long as they have some sense

of what creative writing is about. He walked out of the class, hired a

lawyer, sued the university and the prof--for all the obvious reasons--and

with the $15 thou he won he spent a year in the Scandinavial countries and

came back with another book of poems.

 

Miller's comments on the Iowa Writer's Workshop are scathing, articulate,

and very funny. He roams and reads--here and there. If you see a notice

he's worth a listen.)

 

Rushed. Excuse typos.

 

j grant

 

 

 

 

 

 

           Small Press Authors and Publishers display books

                           FREE

                             at

                               BookZen

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                402,900 visitors - 07-01-96 to 07-01-97

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 11:16:46 -0800

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Stauffer's 20th Century Top Hit List

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Read for your amusement or delete.  Some of my favorites, or books that

had a big impact for me.  I'm sure I have forgotten some of my own

greatest hits candidates at the moment. No pretense at comprehensivess

or giving equal weight to some

 

Virginia Woolf--Any of them

 

D.H. Lawrence--The Rainbow, Sons and Lovers

 

Thomas Pynchon--Gravity's Rainbow

 

Jack Kerouac--On the Road/ Big Sur

 

James Baldwin--Go Tell it On the Mountain, Another Country

 

Vladimir Nabokov--Lolita, Laughter in the Dark

 

Gabriel Garcia Maquez--Love in the Time of Cholera, Thousand Years of

Solitude

 

Willa Cather--Death Comes for the Archibishop

 

William Faukner--Absolom, Absolom

 

Malcolm Lowry--Under the Volcano

 

Graham Greene--The Power and the Glory and most the others

 

F. Scott Fitzgerald--Gatsby, Tender is the Night, Last Tycoon

 

John Dos Passos--USA

 

Thomas Wolfe--Look Homeward Angel, Of Time and the River

 

Robert Penn Warren--All the Kings Men

 

Ken Kesey--Sometimes a Great Notion

 

"Pauline Reage"--The Story of O

 

Henry Miller--Tropic of Cancer

 

Charles Plymell--Last of the Mocassins

 

Richard Brautigan--Confederate General, Trout Fishing in America

 

Christopher Isherwood--A Single Man

 

John Rechy--Numbers

 

Richard Farina-- Been Down so Long

 

Kingley Amis--Lucky Jim

 

J. P. Donleavy--The Ginger Man

 

WS Burroughs--Naked Lunch

 

Milan Kundera-- The Unbearable Lightness of Being, Eternity

 

John Updike--Couples, the Rabbit Series

 

Albert Camus--The Stranger

 

James Joyce--Ulysses, Finnegan's Wake

 

Koestler-- Darkness at Noon

 

Boris Pasternak--Dr. Zhivago

 

Jim Harrison--Dalva and a bunch of the novels, Julip particularly

 

Larry McMurtry--Leaving Cheyenne, All My Friends are Going to be

STrangers

 

Carlos Casteneda--The Don Juan fictions

 

Norman McLean--A River Runs through It

 

And of course for non fiction prose.

 

Freud--Civilization and it's Discontents

 

Reich--The Function of the Orgasm

 

Julian Jaynes--The Origin of Conciousness in the Bicameral Brain

 

 

This could go on and on

 

(It's interesting that we seem to start the 20th century after World War

I--otherwise I'd be including Henry James,  and others who wrote into

the century.)

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 13:48:15 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: Another Kerouac and The Great American novel

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>   If Jack kerouac's spirit has been reincarnated into another body

>(Jack himself believed in reincarnation (je pense)), what would he be

>doing in modern times?  Would he be a writer?  Would he be famous?

>Would

>he be a director?

 

     well, first off i think the question is somewhat, ummm, not really

lacking in validity but it's like asking people about theoretical

situations that won't happen.. i'm not quite able to say what i mean

without risking someone interpreting my comments offensively...

     if jack was reincarnated he's in me.. is that enough ego for you

all?! hehe.. and i'll tell you what he's doing, he's writing to you

right now..  i question that jack put a lot of faith in reincarnation,

i think it was more just a neat idea that he played with as an

essentially curious and romantic mind... i think he more fully admitted

the notion of the essential futility and nonexistence of cosmic

matters, not a nihilist mind you, but for jack i think there was a

difference between the nature of Being, and the romanticism of life,

there might not be a purpose or reality to anything, but we're "here"

doing whatever it is we do, so why not burn burn burn like fabulous

roman candles and be mad to be mad.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 11:42:08 -0800

Reply-To:     Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: hooray for Vonnegut!

Comments: To: stauffer@pacbell.net

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Hi James, Nancy and everybody

 

First I gotta thank you James for that great Dreiser interview by Everson in

the John. I laughed heartily. Nice comment about having nothing to say but

an urge to say it. Didn't stop Everson's urge to say what wonderful things

he had on his mind.

 

Secondly I want to tell you that at 72 I am not offended at all by Nancy's

spirited, affection filled honest remarks. Please Nancy, don't stop speaking

your feelings, I feel enriched by your honest spirited remarks. And no, this

is no payback because you vouched for me being a nice guy.

 

How would you feel when you discover that an idol of yours is drying up?

When you hear a pitiful, what you might have hoped would be a non-sequitur,

turns out to be the reason for don't expect nothing more from me no more.

Certainly, as you say, everyone is entitled to relax when they feel ready,

and not have to perform any longer. But the awe the respect that you felt

for the person's output, well that's bound to suffer some. I still respect

Joe Montana also.  But some of the respect that I felt for his awe inspiring

performance, well some of that was lost when he retired for me also.

 

When I was a young person, I could learn languages quickly. Today I don't

have the same respect for my ability to remember so much so well.

 

It's cool Nancy, us old timers can appreciate a little honesty too. Of

course, if you knew the man as a person, not just as a writer, you might

find reasons to respect him even more now than before, but I don't know the

man either.

 

Ciao. Reminds me, haven't heard from Rinaldo in awhile, that's not usual.

Hello Rinaldo

 

leon

-----Original Message-----

From: James Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Wednesday, November 12, 1997 10:41 AM

Subject: Re: hooray for Vonnegut!

 

 

>Nancy,

>

>Hasn't the guy earned the right to do what he wants to!  Writing is an

>urge, also damn hard work.  Seems to me he is entitled.  A lot of damn

>nerve, I would say, to lose respect for the man on this point.  The

>moral superiority the young feel toward the old is always a source of

>amazement. Does he owe you a few more books?

>

>J. Stauffer

>

>Nancy B Brodsky wrote:

>I

>> found it hard to believe that it was his last book, that writing is an

>> urge and how can you stop having urges. All he said was that he was 75

>> years old and after that, I lost alittle respect for him.

>>

>.-

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 15:50:41 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Jack Kerouac's Personal Library

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 01:02 AM 11/12/97 -0500, you wrote:

>In making a list of Kerouac's reading material, here is information that will

>prove helpful. The following books were in Kerouac's personal library when he

>died.

>All books were well-read and some had notations in Kerouac's hand. I have not

>included books written by Jack or anthologies with contributions by Jack

>although a fairly good representation of his own works were present also. The

>following list was first compiled by me back in 1992 when I was hired to sell

>these books to collectors. Please note this list copyright 1992 Water Row

>Books.

>Jeffrey Weinberg

>Water Row Books

>

>Jeff- I was wondering what books were actually sold off? Thanks, Paul...

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 20:58:56 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      FW: hooray for Vonnegut!

 

oops, this went directly to Leon - sorry for the dupe Leon!!  (wish we could

fix this reply inconsistency!!)

 

----------

Sent:   Wednesday, November 12, 1997 12:33 PM

To:     Leon Tabory

Subject:        RE: hooray for Vonnegut!

 

i don't know, Leon & Nancy...

 

my respect for an artist, performer, etc., is based on his/her work.  the

reasons for stopping may make me sad.  but the work is still the same work no

matter what.  better to quit before one starts producing sub-standard.  i

still have every bit of respect i ever had for Joe Montana or Joan Sutherland

or Kurt Vonnegut or whomever.  in fact, i admire people more for respecting

their art or craft and their audiences by not continuing when they no longer

feel they can be viable in their respective fields.

 

after all, would you want to remember Joe Montana as a broken down football

hero who lost his team's chance at the playoffs because he insisted on playing

another season when his body simply couldn't make the moves any more?  not i.

i want to remember him in his glory.

 

ciao, sherri

 

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Leon Tabory

Sent:   Wednesday, November 12, 1997 11:42 AM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Re: hooray for Vonnegut!

 

Hi James, Nancy and everybody

 

First I gotta thank you James for that great Dreiser interview by Everson in

the John. I laughed heartily. Nice comment about having nothing to say but

an urge to say it. Didn't stop Everson's urge to say what wonderful things

he had on his mind.

 

Secondly I want to tell you that at 72 I am not offended at all by Nancy's

spirited, affection filled honest remarks. Please Nancy, don't stop speaking

your feelings, I feel enriched by your honest spirited remarks. And no, this

is no payback because you vouched for me being a nice guy.

 

How would you feel when you discover that an idol of yours is drying up?

When you hear a pitiful, what you might have hoped would be a non-sequitur,

turns out to be the reason for don't expect nothing more from me no more.

Certainly, as you say, everyone is entitled to relax when they feel ready,

and not have to perform any longer. But the awe the respect that you felt

for the person's output, well that's bound to suffer some. I still respect

Joe Montana also.  But some of the respect that I felt for his awe inspiring

performance, well some of that was lost when he retired for me also.

 

When I was a young person, I could learn languages quickly. Today I don't

have the same respect for my ability to remember so much so well.

 

It's cool Nancy, us old timers can appreciate a little honesty too. Of

course, if you knew the man as a person, not just as a writer, you might

find reasons to respect him even more now than before, but I don't know the

man either.

 

Ciao. Reminds me, haven't heard from Rinaldo in awhile, that's not usual.

Hello Rinaldo

 

leon

-----Original Message-----

From: James Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Wednesday, November 12, 1997 10:41 AM

Subject: Re: hooray for Vonnegut!

 

 

>Nancy,

>

>Hasn't the guy earned the right to do what he wants to!  Writing is an

>urge, also damn hard work.  Seems to me he is entitled.  A lot of damn

>nerve, I would say, to lose respect for the man on this point.  The

>moral superiority the young feel toward the old is always a source of

>amazement. Does he owe you a few more books?

>

>J. Stauffer

>

>Nancy B Brodsky wrote:

>I

>> found it hard to believe that it was his last book, that writing is an

>> urge and how can you stop having urges. All he said was that he was 75

>> years old and after that, I lost alittle respect for him.

>>

>.-

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 13:04:01 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Harold Rhenisch <rhenisch@WEB-TREK.NET>

Subject:      Re the Great 20th C Novel at Sea

MIME-Version: 1.0

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This talk about the GAN has been very interesting.

 

I especially enjoy the posts regarding the need to move the novel forward

and to cross formal categories.

 

Interesting all these lists, but I think they miss one point, namely that

there are fine novels out there which would never make such a list, because

of one flaw or another, but which contain nonetheless some very exciting

elements.

 

Livia by Lawrence Durrell is one, in which Durrell peoples the novel with

the characters of the novel the protagonist is writing, and they converse

with the writer about the novel, while in all other respects interacting in

his life exactly as would any flesh and blood person. An incredible

performance, but not a great novel.

 

Sorry that's not a Beat novel, but I really do prefer to read poetry, Beat

or otherwise, so I'm not the one to say a lot about novels.

 

While we're making lists, though, what about a list or discussion of books

which have crossed formal categories and which might be (or are) building

stones for the Great Ummerican Novel?

 

Trout Fishing in America would be one, in a way, for stealing a whole bag

of poetic tricks and because I love that used trout stream story.

 

There must be 100s, but I can't think of them today.

 

Regards,

 

Harold Rhenisch

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 16:05:40 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bruce Hartman <bwhartmanjr@INAME.COM>

Subject:      Re: hooray for Vonnegut!

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

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I thought it was great. . .!

 

Bruce

 

>speaking of, what did everyone who read Timequake think?

 

>Janelle

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 13:09:32 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Harold Rhenisch <rhenisch@WEB-TREK.NET>

Subject:      Re: mimeograph suggestions...

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> can anyone recommend a few books, instructions (the machine has none) or

> suggestions on mimeograph machine possibilities and usage?

> is this possible?

 

>What a relic!  I used to use the damn things but have mercifully

>forgotten most of it.  Have no idea where to find books--or probably

>even harder, supplies.  You need stencils and stuff.  After than you

>just put in the stencil and crank away.  And of course you have to be a

>very accurate typist and own a typewriter (remember those) because as I

>recall it is almost impossible to correct. I most clearly remember the

>smell of the fluid.  There were also "ditto's"  maybe you could find one

>of those too!

 

>J Stauffer

 

Aw, shucks, but you used to get very interesting effects when the periods

and commas typed right through the stencil, so that when they were

mimeographed they were hollow rings. Sometimes it looked very weird.

Sometimes it was appropriately ghostly.

 

It was a satisfying and solid process, that stencil-typing, I remember.

 

Harold Rhenisch

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 15:44:18 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>

Subject:      Re: mimeograph suggestions...

Comments: To: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

In-Reply-To:  <3469F3B7.699@pacbell.net>

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Wed, 12 Nov 1997, James Stauffer wrote:

 

> What a relic!  I used to use the damn things but have mercifully

> forgotten most of it.

> recall it is almost impossible to correct. I most clearly remember the

> smell of the fluid.

 

You mean that purple ink that smelled so good? The smell of a freshly

printed "ditto" was the best thing about taking a test back in grade

school! Haven't smelled it in a long time. (Of course, it probably causes

cancer or something....)

 

*******

Jeff Taylor

taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

*******

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 15:51:13 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Another Kerouac and The Great American novel

In-Reply-To:  <msg1213606.thr-619ebe2b.55d4ae2@umit.maine.edu>

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Wed, 12 Nov 1997, Tyson Ouellette wrote:

 

> >   If Jack kerouac's spirit has been reincarnated into another body

> >(Jack himself believed in reincarnation (je pense)), what would he be

> >doing in modern times?  Would he be a writer?  Would he be famous?

> >Would

> >he be a director?

>

>      well, first off i think the question is somewhat, ummm, not really

> lacking in validity but it's like asking people about theoretical

> situations that won't happen...

 

But to reject the cogency of hypothetical questions is like saying, "What

if there were no hypothetical questions?"

 

*******

Jeff Taylor

taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

*******

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 15:07:02 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      many thanks to Paul Maher Re: "On the Road" ("Sulla strada")

              Cover italian poket edition   1967.

Comments: To: "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@pipeline.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 10.02 11/11/97 -0500, Paul wrote:

>Hi Rinaldo - your cover you sent me is now posted. It can be found at:

>

>  http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.html

>

>

>                     Thanks! Paul of TKQ...

>"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

>                                           Henry David Thoreau

>

>

Paul,

u are very nice to post the pic cover of "Sulla strada" (OTR in italian).

 

when i read JK for the first time, i read a book

so ''strange'' beautiful (it was 1969, and i was 19year old).

 

and in those times people have a love in reading book, i

remember kids on the train wagon reading beckett, ionesco,

sartre, etc. wonderful times...

 

i am happy, Paul, you have a look at this time that's gone

forever... the poket cover of the italian translation of OTR

perhaps isn't the best cover of OTR... but HERE in ITALY

during the '60s that's what young people had in their own

hands... and it's a nice... nice... Paul, grazie di cuore!

 

un cordiale saluto a tutti

da rinaldo.

from venice-mestre,italy

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 19:01:17 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      I Will Not Bow

 

I Will Not Bow Down is a beautiful book.  I think Waterrow has copies.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 19:04:25 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      K's reading

 

Whoa!  hold everything!  I noticed "42nd Parallel"  "Letter to Alfred

Kazin" on the bottom of Paul's list.  I MADE THIS UP!  It was just an

example of how we should cite a source.  If you look at the original

post you may notice that I cited "Selected Letters v. 2" which, of

course, hasn't been published yet.  Sorry, if I caused any confusion.

Don't want any ghost entries creeping into our project this early.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 16:15:24 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         der doc <der_doc@ROCKETMAIL.COM>

Subject:      whaqt's going on here?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

 

    Hello!

 

I'm experiencing a little bit of trouble and maybe someone out there

can help...

Recently I used up all of the disk space allotted to me for my email.

This is mostly due to me not checking it for a loooooong time.

Anyway, to make a long story short, ever since my quota was exceeded,

I haven't been getting any email from the Beat-L list, even though

I've cleared enough disk space.  If anybody knows what the hell is

going on, please email ME and not Beat-L... I gotta have my Beat-L

back!!!

 

Thanks,

 

Dr. AJ Muszkiewicz

 

===

visit my web site, The Beat(en) Regeneration

(http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6131)

for info on the Beat, Beatnik and Neo-Beat subcultures

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

__________________________________________________________________

Sent by Yahoo! Mail. Get your free e-mail at http://mail.yahoo.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 18:23:00 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: K's reading

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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Bill Gargan wrote:

>

> Whoa!  hold everything!  I noticed "42nd Parallel"  "Letter to Alfred

> Kazin" on the bottom of Paul's list.  I MADE THIS UP!  It was just an

> example of how we should cite a source.  If you look at the original

> post you may notice that I cited "Selected Letters v. 2" which, of

> course, hasn't been published yet.  Sorry, if I caused any confusion.

> Don't want any ghost entries creeping into our project this early.

 

 

roflmao!!!!!

 

let's have a separate list of things that letters vol. 2 will reveal he

read!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 19:50:22 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      beat courses

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     just a follow-up note to the discussion  about beat courses in

schools.. noticed in the schedule for next semester they have a

freshman level english topics course on the beats.. which will include

3 books about the beats, charters' being on of them, lots of beat

material, as well as a study of their influence on people like Bob

Dylan, etc.. the desc. says to be ready for lots of reading, writing,

performing, presenting, and rock music... looks cool...  will see if i

can get into it and let you all know how that scene goes...

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 20:44:49 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: K's reading

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 07:04 PM 11/12/97 EST, you wrote:

>Whoa!  hold everything!  I noticed "42nd Parallel"  "Letter to Alfred

>Kazin" on the bottom of Paul's list.  I MADE THIS UP!  It was just an

>example of how we should cite a source.  If you look at the original

>post you may notice that I cited "Selected Letters v. 2" which, of

>course, hasn't been published yet.  Sorry, if I caused any confusion.

>Don't want any ghost entries creeping into our project this early.

>

I took your word for it because of the source...you should be flattered. Paul:)

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 11:20:07 +0900

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Timothy Hoffman <timothy@GOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: E.L. Doctorow

In-Reply-To:  <v01540b00b08f58189cd9@[146.201.2.118]>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Preston Whaley writes:

 

>This list is fascinating  and growing fatter, healthier. Wondering if

>anyone has read and likes/hates/indifferent to E.L. Doctorow?  A few

>titles: Daniel, Ragtime, Loon Lake, Worlds Fair, Billy Bathgate, The

>Waterworks.  To me, his books evince poignant, lyrical, encyclopedic,

>historical, American, tragic voice like no other.

>

>Preston

 

I enjoyed reading Billy Bathgate very much, and wonder (a beat-related

wonder) how Doctorow's treatment of Dutch Shutlz compares with Burroughs'

"Last Words of Dutch Schultz" which I admit to only being familiar with

from the audio treatment contained on Burroughs' "Spare Ass Annie". Can

anyone out there tell me more?

 

 

:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::

Timothy Hoffman

Komaki English Teaching Center (KETC)

Komaki Shiminkaikan, KETC

2-107 Komaki

Komaki, Aichi 485

work (0568) 76-0905

fax (0568) 77-8207

home (0568)72-3549

timothy@gol.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 02:42:08 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Shani St.John" <lawlaw1@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      LECTURE SERIES

 

I'm sponsoring a lecture series on the beats.  it will feature (if I can get

them) Gary Snyder, Larry Ferlinghetti, and Gary Snyder.  What do you guys

think about these choices.  Have you heard any of these writers speak(besides

Snyder)?

 

Thanks!!!!!!

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 22:02:03 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tracy J Neumann <tjneuman@UMICH.EDU>

Subject:      Lawrence Lipton

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

I was wondering if anyone could suggest sources for some background info

on Lawrence Lipton.  I'd like to include him in my thesis, but other than

Holy Barbarians, I know nothing about him or his life.  If anyone could

direct me, I'd really appreciate it.

 

Thanks,

Tracy

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 23:15:15 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Lawrence Lipton

 

In a message dated 97-11-12 22:36:53 EST, you write:

 

<< I was wondering if anyone could suggest sources for some background info

 on Lawrence Lipton.  I'd like to include him in my thesis, but other than

 Holy Barbarians, I know nothing about him or his life.  If anyone could

 direct me, I'd really appreciate it.

  >>

 

Check out "Venice West" by John Maynard and Dictionary of Literary Biography.

Beats volume edited by Ann Charters (Gale Research Co.) - available at large

libraries...

Jeffrey

WRB

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 01:05:02 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: beat courses

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>From the Kerouac Cd -Rom:

 

 

  Notebook entry, 1940

  Required reading for J.K.

 

 1. Indian Scriptures

 2. Chinese Scriptures

 3. Old and New Testament

 4. Gibbon & Plutarch

 5. Homer (again)

 6. Shakespeare (again)

 7. Wolfe (always)

   Etc. Etc.

  "Finnegan's Wake"

  "Outline of History" again

  Thoreau and Emerson

  Joseph Conrad

  Proust's "Rememberance"

   Dante (again)

 

 And inscribed in his copy of Lolita is this:

 

 What decency really is, can never be outraged- This is a great book by the

world's most honest and smartest living writer. JK

 

 

       -The Kerouac Quarterly-

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 00:52:39 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Jon B. Pearlstone" <THYE@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: LECTURE SERIES

 

The lecture series sounds great---

 

Please tell me more about it--we are specialists in audio production and

distribution on public radio and in retail distribution and would be VERY

interested in professionally taping the series--or at the very least

attending.

 

Please contact me ASAP with more information.

 

Thank you

 

Sincerely,

 

Jon Pearlstone

Alternative Audio

 

THYE@AOL.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 21:56:23 -0800

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: LECTURE SERIES

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Shani,

 

You are having Gary twice?  He'd be fine.  Ferlinghetti also.

 

js

 

  it will feature (if I can get

> them) Gary Snyder, Larry Ferlinghetti, and Gary Snyder.  What do you guys

> think about these choices.  Have you heard any of these writers speak(besides

> Snyder)?

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 22:07:44 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Warning : long winded Re: FW: hooray for Vonnegut!

Content-Type: text/plain

 

>Date:         Wed, 12 Nov 1997 20:58:56 UT

>Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>From: Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

>Subject:      FW: hooray for Vonnegut!

>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>

Dear Sherri, James and everyone,

 

It may not seem that I am trying to stay back, but see how sore my

tongue is - it's from biting it so much. :-). I think it would be nice

if more people's voices were heard, and not just the few soloists

dominate so much of our symphony. But there are many factors afoot and

the few who are willing are enriching us so much by sharing with us

their thoughts, their ways, etc. etc.. You have been warned, you can

delete the coming windy reply. As long as I am not discouraging anyone

from bringing us their voices, hey we are here to exchange ideas, to

examine our ideas, to provoke some thought.

 

So here I am again. Sherri and James, I my be biased because i love your

contributions to us, I continue to learn so much from both of you. Maybe

that is the reason I can't find anything to disagree with about what you

respect in artist's work or their decisions not to. No question of any

kind in my mind that my respect for an artist, performer, etc., is based

on his/her work. I may wish to see more from them, but I don't presume

to be in a position to judge their decisions.

 

At the same time I don't see any reason to change my mind about anything

that Nancy or I felt here. I don't presume any rights to judge other

people's decisions, in their art or in their lives, as long as they are

not hurtful to others unfairly.  Being different people, and yes the

years that we have lived on this planet do make a difference in the

innocence and force of our impulses and, judgments. But I don't think

that Nancy said that she has such privileges either. Nothing was

mentioned about that to my knowledge.

 

Respect belongs to the person who feels it, and different people respect

different things. Nancy, was not speaking about changing her evaluations

of a work of art because the artist went on to disappoint

her. She did not assert any rights to alter the artist's decision.

She had an emotional gut reaction to the response she got from Vonnegut.

She is just as entitled to her response to the great artist, as he is

entitled to exercise his responsiblity to make decisions that he will

have to live with, and that others never know as much about as he does.

By giving to us he did not obligate himself to give up his life.

 

The only arguable questions here are whether Nancy had a right to react

negatively to the great man's response. Whether she is obligated to keep

up her respect of the author as much as she respected him before. No

question in my mind that not only does she have the right to react as

she does, I congratulate her and thank her for sharing with us the

genuine reaction that she did have.

 

I respect a person who maintains friendliness and responsiveness,

whatever their artistic accomplishments are. If they show a lack of

friendliness, respect for their audience, I can't respect them for that.

Not to take any of their rights away, or the respect that their work

merits.

 

Nancy only said that she lost a little of her respect for the man, not

his works, after he gave what to her seemed a not sufficiently adequate

response.

 

I agree with Nancy that age alone does not really describe a reason.

Some people stay active and healthy and interested and productive in

their eighties and beyond. Some are happier to retire at a younger age

when they can still anjoy themselves, they feel. They all have a right

to explore how well their decisions work for them. It is their business.

It is their only life.

 

Their fans have a right to ask the questions. They don't have an

obligation to respect reluctance to reply. Is it health, is it loss of

interest, is it loss of capacity, is it time for a change, those ar all

interesting questions, that I would expect to be addressed by someone

who had respect for me as a client and my question. We would hope to

learn about from the people who tried to talk to us a lot and are

stopping. Was it hard for him to answer? I would respect him more if he

said "This is hard for me to answer". I reserve the right to respect

more the artist who bothers to offer answers after spending a lifetime

looking for an audience to talk to.

 

It is easy for elders to disrespect the younger ones. The elders who

have aquired years of experience which is weighty but can be very very

wrong also. Personally I think that quite possibly Vonnegut dismissed

another young person's question, the way some of us dismiss the ways of

the "x-generation". Quite the same way that Dreiser unfairly dismissed

Everson and all the young aspiring writers. I can respect Dreiser's work

and not respect his rude unfair dismissing attitude toward young

aspiring authors.

 

If you have a question of the "ravages of age" that you should expect, I

can not talk for 75 year olds or for other people of any age, but I can

tell you from personal experience, that a life full of hardships and

stresses, still did not leave me impaired at 72 to any appreciable

extent. My body has developed its share of wrinkles, my muscles are not

as toned as they were in my youth, but they can carry out everything

that I ask of them, I have a strong appetite, sleep well, like to do my

work, keep taking courses in school for my continued enjoyment of

discovery, and am opening up new horizons of interest in literature and

writing. I have not been that enthused about writing , like this post,

in my younger years. Should I expect then that at 75 my urges and

activities will be curtailed or shifted? Maybe. Maybe not. Kurt chose

not to enlighten me about that. Whether you want to respect it or

consider it irrelevant is totally up to you. I don't blame yo Nancy for

feeling offended at the offhand dismissal of your question and statement

of love for Kurt's work that was implicit in it.

 

leon

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The reasons for her reactions are interesting. They are genuine.

She felt disappointed in a man who uses his age, 75, as a reason. Not

health. Not other factors that affect different people differently as

they grow older. Just age. He was not forthcoming with a fuller

explanation. Does a fan have any rights? No. But. Fans feelings are

important and have their legitimate validity as well. For example a

brilliant writer, who seeks out an audience to listen out to his/her

beautiful thoughts, has a right to say I don't give a damn what you

think aboput me. Readers have a right to respect or not to respect the

writer.

 

 

 

said that she was disappointed

>reasons for stopping may make me sad.  but the work is still the same

work no

>matter what.  better to quit before one starts producing sub-standard.

i

>still have every bit of respect i ever had for Joe Montana or Joan

Sutherland

>or Kurt Vonnegut or whomever.  in fact, i admire people more for

respecting

>their art or craft and their audiences by not continuing when they no

longer

>feel they can be viable in their respective fields.

>

>after all, would you want to remember Joe Montana as a broken down

football

>hero who lost his team's chance at the playoffs because he insisted on

playing

>another season when his body simply couldn't make the moves any more?

not i.

>i want to remember him in his glory.

>

>ciao, sherri

>

>

>----------

>From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Leon Tabory

>Sent:   Wednesday, November 12, 1997 11:42 AM

>To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>Subject:        Re: hooray for Vonnegut!

>

>Hi James, Nancy and everybody

>

>First I gotta thank you James for that great Dreiser interview by

Everson in

>the John. I laughed heartily. Nice comment about having nothing to say

but

>an urge to say it. Didn't stop Everson's urge to say what wonderful

things

>he had on his mind.

>

>Secondly I want to tell you that at 72 I am not offended at all by

Nancy's

>spirited, affection filled honest remarks. Please Nancy, don't stop

speaking

>your feelings, I feel enriched by your honest spirited remarks. And no,

this

>is no payback because you vouched for me being a nice guy.

>

>How would you feel when you discover that an idol of yours is drying

up?

>When you hear a pitiful, what you might have hoped would be a

non-sequitur,

>turns out to be the reason for don't expect nothing more from me no

more.

>Certainly, as you say, everyone is entitled to relax when they feel

ready,

>and not have to perform any longer. But the awe the respect that you

felt

>for the person's output, well that's bound to suffer some. I still

respect

>Joe Montana also.  But some of the respect that I felt for his awe

inspiring

>performance, well some of that was lost when he retired for me also.

>

>When I was a young person, I could learn languages quickly. Today I

don't

>have the same respect for my ability to remember so much so well.

>

>It's cool Nancy, us old timers can appreciate a little honesty too. Of

>course, if you knew the man as a person, not just as a writer, you

might

>find reasons to respect him even more now than before, but I don't know

the

>man either.

>

>Ciao. Reminds me, haven't heard from Rinaldo in awhile, that's not

usual.

>Hello Rinaldo

>

>leon

>-----Original Message-----

>From: James Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>

>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>Date: Wednesday, November 12, 1997 10:41 AM

>Subject: Re: hooray for Vonnegut!

>

>

>>Nancy,

>>

>>Hasn't the guy earned the right to do what he wants to!  Writing is an

>>urge, also damn hard work.  Seems to me he is entitled.  A lot of damn

>>nerve, I would say, to lose respect for the man on this point.  The

>>moral superiority the young feel toward the old is always a source of

>>amazement. Does he owe you a few more books?

>>

>>J. Stauffer

>>

>>Nancy B Brodsky wrote:

>>I

>>> found it hard to believe that it was his last book, that writing is

an

>>> urge and how can you stop having urges. All he said was that he was

75

>>> years old and after that, I lost alittle respect for him.

>>>

>>.-

>>

>.-

>

 

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 03:46:36 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>

Subject:      GAN

 

When I read Kerouac, I want to write.

 

When I read Vonnegut, I want to read.

 

But the best book for me is

Confederacy of Dunces by John Kennedy Toole.

A#1

 

so it goes, Attila

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 03:46:36 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Beat and Kerouac books for sale

 

Hello,

 

If you are interested in a short list of Kerouac and beat books for sale

(most are collectible) please e mail me and I will send you the list.

 

thanks

Attila

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 03:11:53 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: another Kerouac?

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 02:13 PM 11/8/97 EST, you wrote:

>On Fri, 7 Nov 1997 23:41:37 -0500 Dennis Cardwell said:

>>Thanks, Donahue!  Post-modernism leaves us older folks feeling as if our

>>world is already gone.  The essayists who get such short shrift today are

>>indeed carrying on a tradition begun far before the beats, but not ignored by

>>them.  The Best American Essays series is outstanding with a different editor

>>each year, the newest 1997 is now available in paperback.   Haven't dipped

>>into it yet, but I know much joy and enlightenment awaits.  I usually read

>>the BAE series in order of essay length, shortest to longest, and quit when I

>>realize an essay is out of my interest area, skip to the next.  Poetic

>>indeed.  Most of these writers are true craftsmen(persons) using words with

>>the precision and sure skill expected of brain surgeons.  Other such

>>anthologies are available in big book stores.   EVERYONE SHOULD READ jOSEPH

>>MITCHELL's Up In the Old Hotel, if only for the major league, major lead

>>essay on McSorley's.  Kisses, starfishes, and knishes! DCard

>

>

> I second this recommendation:  Mitchell's book is wonderful.

>

>

Many of us seem to read the same stuff.  Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 08:36:25 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Neil Hennessy <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Re: beat courses

In-Reply-To:  <1.5.4.32.19971113060502.0069a754@pop.pipeline.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Thu, 13 Nov 1997, Paul A. Maher Jr. wrote:

 

> >From the Kerouac Cd -Rom:

 

>  And inscribed in his copy of Lolita is this:

>

>  What decency really is, can never be outraged- This is a great book by the

> world's most honest and smartest living writer. JK

 

Ahh, I agree almost completely (I'd call Burroughs the most honest). Funny

though, I always thought Lolita paled in comparison with Bend Sinister,

Pnin, and Pale Fire. It's just the one that produced the most controversy.

Pnin should be required reading for any faculty or student involved in the

university game. Does Nabokov appear on many American Lit syllabi? I

haven't seen him listed for courses in and around my school.

 

Neil

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 08:56:38 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Preston Whaley <paw8670@MAILER.FSU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: LECTURE SERIES

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

I don't know how keen Ferl. and Snyder would be to lecture but I bet they's

rather read, and they're readings are great from what I have heard

personally and from others.  David Meltzer, Steven Watson, and  Rebecca

solnit lectured well at the Beats at de Young exhibition last year in S.F.

Meltzer didn't really lecture but participated in a panel; he was eloquent

and seems to have thought alot about the Beats and especially the influence

of their legacy.  For what it's worth,

 

Preston

 

>I'm sponsoring a lecture series on the beats.  it will feature (if I can get

>them) Gary Snyder, Larry Ferlinghetti, and Gary Snyder.  What do you guys

>think about these choices.  Have you heard any of these writers speak(besides

>Snyder)?

>

>Thanks!!!!!!

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 06:57:51 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         CARL PORTER <CPORTER@WEBER.EDU>

Subject:      Beat and Kerouac books for sale -Reply

Comments: To: GYENIS@AOL.COM

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain

 

Attila

 

Please send me a list of the Kerouac books.

 

carl

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 09:08:54 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Preston Whaley <paw8670@MAILER.FSU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: E.L. Doctorow

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>Preston Whaley writes:

>

>>This list is fascinating  and growing fatter, healthier. Wondering if

>>anyone has read and likes/hates/indifferent to E.L. Doctorow?  A few

>>titles: Daniel, Ragtime, Loon Lake, Worlds Fair, Billy Bathgate, The

>>Waterworks.  To me, his books evince poignant, lyrical, encyclopedic,

>>historical, American, tragic voice like no other.

>>

>>Preston

>

>I enjoyed reading Billy Bathgate very much, and wonder (a beat-related

>wonder) how Doctorow's treatment of Dutch Shutlz compares with Burroughs'

>"Last Words of Dutch Schultz" which I admit to only being familiar with

>from the audio treatment contained on Burroughs' "Spare Ass Annie". Can

>anyone out there tell me more?

>

>

>:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::

>Timothy Hoffman

>Komaki English Teaching Center (KETC)

>Komaki Shiminkaikan, KETC

>2-107 Komaki

>Komaki, Aichi 485

>work (0568) 76-0905

>fax (0568) 77-8207

>home (0568)72-3549

>timothy@gol.com

 

 

Hm,

 

interesting point. haven't read or heard the Burr.'s piece but will.

Several months ago the tv program -- is it  "Biography" ? --  presented

Schulz as ambitious, charming, and arbitrarily murderous.

 

Preston

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 09:43:00 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: LECTURE SERIES

In-Reply-To:  Message of Wed, 12 Nov 1997 02:42:08 UT from

              <lawlaw1@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

 

Great choices!  Hope you can get them.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 09:44:51 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: Lawrence Lipton

In-Reply-To:  Message of Wed, 12 Nov 1997 22:02:03 -0500 from

              <tjneuman@UMICH.EDU>

 

Take a look at John Maynard's "Venice West." (1991).  Also check the

entry in the Dictionary of Literary Biography, v. 16 "The Beats" if you

haven't done so already.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 07:50:35 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>

Subject:      Re: LECTURE SERIES

In-Reply-To:  <UPMAIL14.199711130256040715@classic.msn.com> from "Shani

              St.John" at Nov 12, 97 02:42:08 am

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> I'm sponsoring a lecture series on the beats.  it will feature (if I can get

> them) Gary Snyder, Larry Ferlinghetti, and Gary Snyder.  What do you guys

 

You may want to also consider Larry Ferlinghetti and Gary Snyder, just to

round it out.

 

Sorry!  Just kidding.  How about Gregory Corso, David Amram, and to

bring you into the 90's, Ron Whitehead?  Also maybe Gregory Corso.

 

-------------------------------------------------------

| Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com                    |

|                                                     |

|     Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |

|      (the beat literature web site)                 |

|                                                     |

|          "Coffeehouse: Writings from the Web"       |

|            (a real book, like on paper)             |

|               also at http://coffeehousebook.com    |

|                                                     |

|                   *---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---* |

|                                                     |

|        "When I was crazy, I thought you were great" |

|                                       -- Ric Ocasek |

-------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 11:39:04 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Lawrence Lipton

 

Find "Venice West" by John Arthur Maynard, published about 5 years ago (I

think Rutgers Univ. press, but I may be wrong on that) a GREAT book about

Lipton and the Venice/LA Beat Scene in the 50's.  Probably the best

retrospective on the Beat Era - also interesting because it focuses on beats

besides the "big three".

 

John is a sometime contributor to this list, are you lurking out there?

 

Howard Park

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 11:17:18 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: my comments on Patricia's posts

In-Reply-To:  <3463D5DC.57BF@pacbell.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>Leon Tabory wrote:

 

>>  Even as Kerouac's biographer our own Gey

>> Nicosia likes to point out about Paul, what do you expect from a man who is

>> a convicted criminal, felon? Don't mean to fan the flames and I am not

>> saying it with any ill feeling toward Nicosia, I understand that anything

>> that helps undermine the dredibility of an opponent is to be used in serious

>> battle.

 

By the time Nicosia had mentioned Paul's criminal record, Paul had said

things about Nicosia that were not true. Nicosia was simply pointing out

that Paul's credibility today is not significantly better than it was back

then. Paul's doing, not Nicosia's.

 

Just because a person has done a little time doesn't mean they cannot be

trusted. But when an excon slanders and lies about a person whose

reputation is untarnished then that excon has to expect a little truth in

return. It's something SOME excons learn to live with.

 

I have never distrusted Paul because he's an ex-con, but I distrust him and

will never accept him at his word after what he has said about Gerry

Nicosia.

 

j grant

 

    Small Press Authors and Publishers display books

        FREE at BookZen  http://www.bookzen.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 09:45:41 -0800

Reply-To:     jmaynard@csubak.edu

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         John Arthur Maynard <John_Maynard@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Lawrence Lipton

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Howard Park wrote:

 

> Find "Venice West" by John Arthur Maynard, published about 5 years ago (I

> think Rutgers Univ. press, but I may be wrong on that) a GREAT book about

> Lipton and the Venice/LA Beat Scene in the 50's.  Probably the best

> retrospective on the Beat Era - also interesting because it focuses on beats

> besides the "big three".

>

> John is a sometime contributor to this list, are you lurking out there?

>

> Howard Park

 

Yup.  Thanks for the kind words.

 

BTW, for those interested in the Venice people, the collected poems of Stuart

Perkoff are supposed to be out soon.  There is also a Lipton autobiography that

is ostensibly ready to run, but I wouldn't bet the farm that it actually will.

 

jm

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 13:33:54 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      1st & last response to Grant's attempt to start a flame war.

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Who's an ex-con? is a misdemeanor offense a convict? And specify if you can

the untruths I have laid on Mr. Nicosia, who, as far as I'm concerned I have

made clear that I am not interested in resorting to commenting upon this

issue with any longer. I stole books as a young man...about eight years ago.

I have regretted it ever since. Sine then I have graduated from college with

a 3.8 GPA. I am Honorably Discharged from the U.S. military with a Good

Conduct Award and a Sea Service Ribbon for duty in the Persian Gulf.I have

written a 500+ page book on Jack Kerouac and Lowell among other things.

What, may I ask, is your background Mr. Grant? Besides being a puppet for

your benefactor and who only pledges to accomplish great things behind a web

site decorated with lies and adorned with slander. Are you telling me you

have a spotless record? Now I could care less how you percieve me and my

credibility becasue you do not matter to me. What matters is how you are

trying to perceive yourself to others on this list....you are trying to

start another flame war which I won't be provoked into again. I have

written, on a number of occasions, that I respect Mr. Nicosia's work on his

book. I have made critical commentary on what I think is wrong with the

book. He is free to do the same with mine when it is published. I have

commented on some things that were said by he about certain aspects of his

lawsuit. As long as I am not slandering or committing libel, that is my

priviledge.What have you done for this list except to echo what was fed to

you and pretended you were in a position to make intelligent commentary

about it. As far as I can see, your testament to all this is a mouldering

slug who likes to break the peace and calm of this list by bringing up past

issues. I'm an ex-con? If it was true so what? I stole library books. Jack

Kerouac stole the Buddhist Bible from the New York Public Library. Huncke

stole coats and Neal Cassady stole cars. Am I not in good company with the

subject matter? Take a good long look at your pathetic grimacing visage and

comment to us on that...that is the issue here, I have plainly criticized

and made clear what I have done and if people really want to know then by

all means charge to Mr. Grant's web site, it is the doorstop to lies

negativity for cyberspace. Paul...

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 10:35:28 -0800

Reply-To:     Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: my comments on Patricia's posts

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

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-----Original Message-----

From: Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

To: jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Date: Thursday, November 13, 1997 10:33 AM

Subject: Re: Re: my comments on Patricia's posts

 

>Hi Joe,

>-----Original Message-----

>From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>Date: Thursday, November 13, 1997 9:11 AM

>Subject: Re: my comments on Patricia's posts

>

>

>

>>Just because a person has done a little time doesn't mean they cannot be

>>trusted. But when an excon slanders and lies about a person whose

>>reputation is untarnished then that excon has to expect a little truth in

>>return. It's something SOME excons learn to live with.

>

>Hi Joe,

>No flames, no ill feelings, just would like some of you Beat-L to know that

>this here ex-convict, who done a lot of time, not just a little, still

don't

>feel that this makes me fair game, what do you expect, learn to live with

>it, you is a guy with a tarnished reputation.

>

>Quite the contrary Joe. I feel proud of my past. My ex-convict status is a

>badge of honor in my own mind, and in the mind of my friends, including my

>children, I might add. Including a former Parole Officer who still

considers

>himself a friend and keeps my picture on his office wall.

>

>What some folks make of it, or what they make out of other aspects of

>myself, ain't much of my reality. I am not saying that it doesn't bother me

>when people are condemned by some whose values are quite different than

>their own. Of course it bothers me, but if you think that their tags as

>ex-con or sinner or evil-doer stick to my skin, you are quite a bit

>mistaken. The tarnish of my reputation is of their own making and stays in

>their books, not mine.

>

>Before you condemn me as arrogant I want to explain. I have paid my dues

for

>my beliefs. Mostly the reason that I became a sought target in the

"criminal

>jusitce" system is because I was very vociferous in not being ashamed of my

>interest in marijuana and psychedelics, and my feeling that as an educated

>perosn very well aware of the issues that it was shameful for me to have to

>hide what I am doing, like many of my collegues did. Did it but hid it. I

>also felt a responsibility to many of the young people who heard me state

>publicly my opinions and later got inot trouble with the law. I said to

>myself that yes, I am willing to share the social and legal cosequences

that

>our society was dishing out to us for doing what I believed was right. I am

>proud to find out that indeed without evasiveness I was able to survive

>intact all of the obstacles they put in my way.

>

>I could have easily continued practicing my profession that provided me a

>Porsche and lots of leisure time by 1964, and no one would have examined my

>spice cabinet that I could stack with whatever I wanted, just like my many

>"successful" collegues did. I thought that I could afford a lot more self

>respect and I am happy to report to you that I feel very good that I did,

>even if that led me to many years of imprisonment and all sorts of

>hardships. In my own eyes my reputation is polished quite the opposite of

>tarnished. In the prisons I  have run into many more honorable people like

>myself, more than outside the prison walls  sometimes.

>

>No ill feelings Joe. Just letting you know how I feel about your idea that

>being an ex-con I have a tarnished reputation that I have to learn to live

>with. If you are wondering whether ignorant folks bother me or have

>interfered with my life, or if i have been handicapped by that criminal

>record, the answer is not at all. I am doing what I want to no one has

dared

>use my record against me in any way.

>

>Setting the record straight?

>leon

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 13:57:43 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "PoOka(the friendly ghost)" <jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>

Subject:      star wars and Kerouac?

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

its a shame that Kerouac didn't live to see star wars. Before  you all

accuse me of being shallow, think about this: star wars is an epic film of

imagination, a modern myth using ideas from classic literature. There's a

book out right now that compares the star wars genre to myth. Would the

beats "dig" such cinematic attempts?

                                                        jason

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 14:10:08 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Gary - Larry - Harry Lecture Series!

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

As well as Levi's suggestions for the lecture, I'd add Gregory Corso and

Larry Ferlinghetti....just kidding - couldn't resist!

 

        Does anyone actually call him Larry?...it doesn't exactly trip off

my tongue.

 

        I was actually thinking that if Harry "the Hipster" Gibson hadn't

died, it would have been a treat to contemplate a Gary - Larry - Harry

lecture!  ....although god knows what Harry would have had to say about the

beats, much less about literature!

 

                Antoine

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never

cease to be amused."

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 12:01:57 MST/MDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "j." <NIEL1000@BADGER.SNOW.EDU>

 

i too am an excon: but i am a graduate of the juvenile court system:

i feel there is a certain red badge of courage for surviving what i

put myself through: and the insight and wisdom gained from my

experiences is incredible: you cant get that from a book: j.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 12:07:16 MST/MDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "j." <NIEL1000@BADGER.SNOW.EDU>

Subject:      the last time i committed suicide

 

you absolutely must see this film: j.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 14:27:00 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Ottis L. Murray" <OLM@MAIL.LRCOG.DST.NC.US>

 

unscribe beat-l

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 15:13:50 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Jack Kerouac reading: More titles

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Patrick L. Fermor - MANI

Lekachman - The Age of Keyes

Fred Hoffman - Marginal Manners

Federico Garcia Lorca

Agatha Christie

H.D.F. Kitto

Plutarch's Lines

Christopher Marlowe

Lenny Bruce

 

  These are all documented as being read or, at least perused by Jack

Kerouac at one time or another...we do know that Kerouac criticized Lenny

Bruce for "hating everything."

 

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 14:36:36 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>

Subject:      Re: The Great American Novel

In-Reply-To:  <msg1205197.thr-f120c4ac.55d4a82@umit.maine.edu>

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Tue, 11 Nov 1997, Tyson Ouellette wrote:

 

>      music is a powerful entity in itself, it's healing, it sings the

> rhythyms of the soul, very spiritual,  whether it's mozart or

> metallica.  now when tou combine words and music, the words it seems

> have a free ride to your subconscious.  how much easier it is to

> reiterate a song than words alone, preserving timing, etc.  because it

> takes a different path to whatever regions of your mind it goes to,

> maybe it penetrates further tht way.  i find the same for music

> enhanced by words, music alone doesn't get in there as quickly and

> strongly as music with words.

 

What I was really wondering was if the rhythm, tempo (all the musical

elements, etc.) are something more than just an efficient delivery system,

but actually, really and truly, and independently of any merely personal

and subjectve psychology, add to the meaning of a literary work. I think

it's pretty obvious that it does, but how exactly, and what is the precise

nature of this addition? I want something more than psychology here.

But what could this "more" be?--

 

>  that was part of the reason i mentioned

> a progression in literature that combines prose, poetry, music... i

> think we'll have to incorporate the visual arts also, again, not merely

> an illustrated book, but more fully melded.

 

Isn't this what opera was supposed to accomplish? It was supposed to be

the Consummate Art precisely because it united words, music, visual arts

(the scene design & costumes), and I suppose you could also integrate

dance into it if you wanted. But so many people find opera intolerable!

Maybe there's such a thing as trying to include too much and ending up

with a clumsy dinosaur.

 

*******

Jeff Taylor

taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

*******

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 15:31:33 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mark Schoeck <Ireneaus13@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: star wars and Kerouac?

 

for some strange reason i think i agree. that could just be on account of

fanatacism for the the two.   mark.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 15:32:25 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mark Schoeck <Ireneaus13@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: the last time i committed suicide

 

i caught it on cinamax a few months ago, amazing.

mark.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 16:01:02 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Matthew S Sackmann <msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>

Subject:      Re: star wars and Kerouac?

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.OSF.3.91.971113135444.18729A-100000@turbo.kean.edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Thu, 13 Nov 1997, PoOka(the friendly ghost) wrote:

 

> its a shame that Kerouac didn't live to see star wars. Before  you all

> accuse me of being shallow, think about this: star wars is an epic film of

> imagination, a modern myth using ideas from classic literature. There's a

> book out right now that compares the star wars genre to myth. Would the

> beats "dig" such cinematic attempts?

>                                                         jason

>

YES YES YES!!

The Beats would have LOVED Star Wars!

What's this book that you speak of?  i know Joseph Campbell speaks of Star

Wars a lot in his books, but is this a new one?

Any one know what the guys that lived to see Star Wars think about it?

 

-matt

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 15:00:04 MST/MDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "summer s. eve" <NIEL1000@BADGER.SNOW.EDU>

Subject:      Re: the last time i committed suicide

 

Date sent:      Thu, 13 Nov 1997 15:32:25 -0500

Send reply to:  "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:           Mark Schoeck <Ireneaus13@AOL.COM>

Subject:        Re: the last time i committed suicide

To:             BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

 

i caught it on cinamax a few months ago, amazing.

mark.

 

what did you think?: i absolutely loved it: j.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 15:01:54 MST/MDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "summer s. eve" <NIEL1000@BADGER.SNOW.EDU>

Subject:      Re: star wars and Kerouac?

 

Date sent:      Thu, 13 Nov 1997 15:31:33 -0500

Send reply to:  "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:           Mark Schoeck <Ireneaus13@AOL.COM>

Subject:        Re: star wars and Kerouac?

To:             BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

 

for some strange reason i think i agree. that could just be on account of

fanatacism for the the two.   mark.

 

the beats defined their generation and in a sense star wars did the

same: j.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 16:53:38 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Meghan Langley <PnkAngora@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: the last time i committed suicide

 

I agree, the film was quite good.  I was hesitant to see it at first, because

I generally don't like screen adaptations.  However, with this movie, their

was nothing in the portrayal of Neal that conflicted with any of the

images\impressions  I had aleady formed from literature or otherwise.  Good

flick.

-meghan

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 17:08:53 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Glenn Cooper <coopergw@MPX.COM.AU>

Subject:      Hubert Selby

In-Reply-To:  <971111213144_1670290632@mrin53.mail.aol.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

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aAt 21:31 11/11/97 -0500, you wrote:

>In a message dated 97-11-11 17:31:07 EST, you write:

>

><< I think Selby is incredibly under-appreciated. I think he's a master. >>

>Hubert Selby is a monster writer and should be discussed on this list more

>often.  I heartily agree with your selections, Glenn, but I'm curious as to

>why you left off Last Exit to Brooklyn.  Isn't it as least as good as The

>Demon and The Room?

>

 

Well, oddly enough, "Last Exit" is the only Selby book I *don't* have! Just

haven't gotten around to buying it. Probably because it's the most popular.

I have a thing going on in my head that censors anything that reaches mass

popularity. I've seen the movie, though!

 

"The Room" and "The Demon" are every bit as horrific as "Naked Lunch", and

in many ways go even further in their attempts to portray human depravity,

and the evil inherent in all of us.

 

To anyone who hasn't read Selby, I can't recommend him highly enough. I

have a blurb somewhere from Ginsberg, where he calls Selby "the most

important innovator since Burroughs".

 

Glenn C.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 23:15:36 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Cecco Angiolieri an Ancient Beat.

In-Reply-To:  <199711121757.JAA20874@hsc.usc.edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

cari amici,

Cecco Angiolieri born in Siena (near Florence) in 1260,

was an italian poet, he was involved in brawls and

lawsuit for don't do the military service. He was a

friend to Dante Alighieri.

His feeling is't picaresque but a mix of spleen and joy,

Lawrence Ferlighetti appreciates Angiolieri's poetry.

 

Now i post a poem by Cecco Angiolieri dated at end of the 1200s'

 

*       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

        La mia malinconia               by Cecco Angiolieri

 

        La mia malinconia e' tanta e tale,

        ch'e' non discredo che, s'egli 'l sapesse

        un che mi fosse nemico mortale,

        che di me di pietade non piangesse

 

        Quella, per cu' m'avven, poco ne cale;

        che mi parebbe, sed ella volesse

        guarir'n un punto di tutto tutto 'l mie male

        sed ella pur: - I' t'odio - mi dicesse

 

        Ma quest'e' la risposta c'ho da lei;

        e ched'i vad'a far li fatti miei;

        ch'ella non cura s'i' ho gi'oi' o pene

        men ch'una paglia che le va tra' piei:

        mal grado h'abbi Amor, ch'a le' mi diene.

 

*       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

 

un saluto a tutti,

Rinaldo.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 17:21:51 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: 1st & last response to Grant's attempt to start a flame war.

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

ARRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH

AAAAAAARRRRRRRRAAAEEEEEEEEEEEGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH

w

i

l

l

 

t'

h

i

s

 

e

v

e

r

 s

t

o

p????????????????????????????????????????????????????

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 16:32:21 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: 1st & last response to Grant's attempt to start a flame war.

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Marie Countryman wrote:

>

> ARRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH

> AAAAAAARRRRRRRRAAAEEEEEEEEEEEGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH

> w

> i

> l

> l

>

> t'

> h

> i

> s

>

> e

> v

> e

> r

>  s

> t

> o

> p????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

i think it probably will.

 

optimistically,

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 17:01:24 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Skau <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>

Subject:      GAN

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Many years ago I stumbled across a wonderful American novel, _The

Anointed_, by Clyde Brion Davis (1937). It starts:

 

        Once I was sitting on a bench in Boston Common and a crazy man

came down the path from that Civil War memorial. He was an old man about

fifty or sixty and the lapels of his coat were covered with celluloid

buttons that said, "O, You Kid," "Keep Cool With Coolidge," "Cow Brand

Soda," "The Jolly Chums Club," and things like that.

        This crazy man came over to my bench in the shade and sat down.

Pretty soon he looked over at me and began to laugh. He laughed and

laughed.

        I said to him, "Mister, what in hell are you laughing at?"

        And he stopped laughing a little and wiped his eyes on a blue

bandanna handkerchief, and said, "I am laughing at you and Boston and the

world. God and I are laughing."

 

I read this opening and I was hooked.

"But," you ask, "what has all this to do with the materials on this list?"

Well, the author, Clyde Brion Davis, pre-empted one of the threads of

recent discussion on this list: Davis's second novel, published in 1938,

was titled _The Great American Novel_!

Cordially,

Michael Skau

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 18:32:29 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>

Subject:      Re: star wars and Kerouac?

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.OSF.3.91.971113135444.18729A-100000@turbo.kean.edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Well, you do know that Lucas hired Joseph Campbell as a consultant on the

first film and while he was developing the idea for the series as he

wanted the saga to have a mythic quality to it, which, I would lay, is the

main empatis (sp?) behind the popularity and perpetuity of the films.

 

------------------

Alex Howard  (704)264-8259                    Appalachian State University

kh14586@am.appstate.edu                       P.O. Box 12149

http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586             Boone, NC  28608

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 17:45:35 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: star wars and Kerouac?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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Alex Howard wrote:

>

> Well, you do know that Lucas hired Joseph Campbell as a consultant on the

> first film and while he was developing the idea for the series as he

> wanted the saga to have a mythic quality to it, which, I would lay, is the

> main empatis (sp?) behind the popularity and perpetuity of the films.

>

> ------------------

> Alex Howard  (704)264-8259                    Appalachian State University

> kh14586@am.appstate.edu                       P.O. Box 12149

> http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586             Boone, NC  28608

 

i finally broke down and watched them the summer before last after so

many years of hearing about the Campbell connection (ending my quest to

be the only living American that hadn't seen them <smile>).

 

perhaps i need to see them again.  my first impression was that Joseph

Campbell's spin on them the Bill Moyer's videos is better than the

movies themselves.

 

horribly un-American,

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 19:05:27 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Eric Craig Sapp <ecs4m@SERVER1.MAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Cecco Angiolieri an Ancient Beat.

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

 

hi rinaldo,

could you maybe post an english translation of this poem.

 

 

 

from,

Eric

 

 

On Thu, 13 Nov 1997 23:15:36 +0100 Rinaldo Rasa

<rinaldo@GPNET.IT> wrote:

 

> cari amici,

> Cecco Angiolieri born in Siena (near Florence) in 1260,

> was an italian poet, he was involved in brawls and

> lawsuit for don't do the military service. He was a

> friend to Dante Alighieri.

> His feeling is't picaresque but a mix of spleen and joy,

> Lawrence Ferlighetti appreciates Angiolieri's poetry.

>

> Now i post a poem by Cecco Angiolieri dated at end of the 1200s'

>

> *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

>         La mia malinconia               by Cecco Angiolieri

>

>         La mia malinconia e' tanta e tale,

>         ch'e' non discredo che, s'egli 'l sapesse

>         un che mi fosse nemico mortale,

>         che di me di pietade non piangesse

>

>         Quella, per cu' m'avven, poco ne cale;

>         che mi parebbe, sed ella volesse

>         guarir'n un punto di tutto tutto 'l mie male

>         sed ella pur: - I' t'odio - mi dicesse

>

>         Ma quest'e' la risposta c'ho da lei;

>         e ched'i vad'a far li fatti miei;

>         ch'ella non cura s'i' ho gi'oi' o pene

>         men ch'una paglia che le va tra' piei:

>         mal grado h'abbi Amor, ch'a le' mi diene.

>

> *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

>

> un saluto a tutti,

> Rinaldo.

 



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