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Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 05:21:48 -0600
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From: Jeff Taylor
<taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Jack Kerouac's Partial Reading List
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.32.19971112101608.006add28@pop.pipeline.com>
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>
Put your additions at the bottom of the list so that there will be some
>
organization to this. Thanks, P.
>
>>>>A Partial Reading list of Jack Kerouac that is documented here
and there:
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Galsworthy: Forsyte
Saga
>
>>>> Shakespeare -
everything
>
>>>> Thomas Wolfe -
everything
>
>>>> D.H. Lawrence - The
Rainbow
>
>>>> William Blake -
Marriage of Heaven and Hell
>
>>>> Oswald Spengler - The
Decline of the West
>
>>>> Celine - Journey To
the End of the Night, Death On the Installment Plan,
>
>>>> Guignol's
Band
>
>>>> Melville - Omoo,
Typee, Billy Budd, Moby Dick, Encantandas
>
>>>> Jack London
>
>>>> Vladamir Nabokov -
Lolita
>
>>>> The Bible
>
>>>> Indian Scriptures
>
>>>> The Buddhist Bible
>
>>>> Ernest Hemingway
>
>>>> William Faulkner-
Pylon
>
>>>> Thomas Mann
>
>>>> Alain Fournier - Le
Grand Meaulnes
>
>>>> Daniel Defoe -
Robinson Crusoe
>
>>>> Edward Spenser -
Complete Poems
>
>>>> Matthew Arnold - Study
of Celtic Literature
>
>>>> A number of Buddhist
texts
>
>>>> Fyodor Dostoevsky -
probably everything
>
>>>> Gogol - Dead Souls
>
>>>> Theodore Dreiser -
Sister Carrie
>
>>>> Lawrence Ferlinghetti
>
>>>> Gustave Flaubert -
Salammbo
>
>>>> James Joyce - Ulysses,
Finnehan's Wake, Portrait of the Artist As a
>
>>Young Man
>
>>>> John Keats
>
>>>> Lin Yutang - Wisdom of
China and India
>
>>>> Francis Parkman - The
Oregon Trail
>
>>>> Honore de Balzac
>
>>>> A Biography of George
Washington
>
>>>> W.H. Auden
>
>>>> Ezra Pound
>
>>>> Francois Rabelais
>
>>>> William Saroyan
>
>>>> Alan Harrington - The
Secret Swinger
>
>>>> Arthur Rimbaud
>
>>>> The Tibetan Book of
the Dead
>
>>>> John Reed - Ten Days
That Shook the World
>
>>>> Leo Tolstoy - War and Peace
>
>>>> H.G. Wells - The
Outline of History, The Science of Life
>
>>>> John Steinbeck - East
of Eden
>
>>>> Giovanni Boccacio -
The Decameron
>
>>>> Kafka - The Castle
>
>>>> Edgar Allan Poe
>
>>>> Jean Cocteau - Opium,
The Blood of a Poet
>
>>>> Stendahl - The Red and
the Black
>
>>>> William Penn - Maxims
>
>>>> Greek Philosophy
>
>>>> The Shadow
>
>>>> William Reich - The
Function of the Orgasm
>
>>>> Mark Twain
>
>>>> Yeats
>
>>>> Gertrude Stein
>
>>>> T.S. Eliot
>
>>>> Walt Whitman - Leaves
of Grass
>
>> W.H. Auden
>
>> e.e. cummings
>
>> Emily Dickinson
>
>> Henry David Thoreau
>
>> Ralph Waldo Emerson
>
> Robert Frost (Sherri)
>
> 42nd Parallel (Letter to Alfred
Kazin) Bill Gargan
Jean
Genet (Good Blonde & Others,
p.90--I know I've seen other references
but can't find them at the
moment)
*******
Jeff
Taylor
taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
*******
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 05:26:47 -0600
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Jack Kerouac's Partial Reading List
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Paul A.
Maher Jr. wrote:
>
>
Put your additions at the bottom of the list so that there will be some
>
organization to this. Thanks, P.
>
>
>
>----------
>
>From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List
on behalf of Paul A. Maher Jr.
>
>Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 1997
7:01 PM
>
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>Subject: Re: Jack Kerouac's
Partial Reading List
>
>
>
>Maybe if we follow Bill Gargan's example and place a date and source for
the
>
>info we can accomplish our own research. Obviously I got a lot to catch up
>
>on but most of this I knew off the top of my head. I would just add the
name
>
>to the bottom of the list with the appropriate source and name of
>
>contributor if you'd like. Let's see what we can come up with. I will then
>
>transfer the list to the web page with credit for the Beat-l. This will
give
>
>the list some publicity as I get a lot of people who visit who aren't here
>
>on the list.
>
> I was thinking of starting the
same kind of list with a chronological
>
>order to Jack's road trips and persoanl residences. Paul..
>
>> ****************
>
>>>
>
>>>>A Partial Reading list of Jack Kerouac that is documented here
and there:
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Galsworthy: Forsyte
Saga
>
>>>> Shakespeare -
everything
>
>>>> Thomas Wolfe -
everything
>
>>>> D.H. Lawrence - The
Rainbow
>
>>>> William Blake -
Marriage of Heaven and Hell
>
>>>> Oswald Spengler - The
Decline of the West
>
>>>> Celine - Journey To
the End of the Night, Death On the Installment Plan,
>
>>>> Guignol's
Band
>
>>>> Melville - Omoo,
Typee, Billy Budd, Moby Dick, Encantandas
>
>>>> Jack London
>
>>>> Vladamir Nabokov -
Lolita
>
>>>> The Bible
>
>>>> Indian Scriptures
interested
in what specifically here.
>
>>>> The Buddhist Bible
>
>>>> Ernest Hemingway
>
>>>> William Faulkner-
Pylon
>
>>>> Thomas Mann
>
>>>> Alain Fournier - Le
Grand Meaulnes
>
>>>> Daniel Defoe -
Robinson Crusoe
>
>>>> Edward Spenser -
Complete Poems
>
>>>> Matthew Arnold - Study
of Celtic Literature
>
>>>> A number of Buddhist
texts
wondering
about specifics
>
>>>> Fyodor Dostoevsky -
probably everything
>
>>>> Gogol - Dead Souls
>
>>>> Theodore Dreiser -
Sister Carrie
>
>>>> Lawrence Ferlinghetti
>
>>>> Gustave Flaubert -
Salammbo
>
>>>> James Joyce - Ulysses,
Finnehan's Wake, Portrait of the Artist As a
>
>>Young Man
>
>>>> John Keats
>
>>>> Lin Yutang - Wisdom of
China and India
>
>>>> Francis Parkman - The
Oregon Trail
>
>>>> Honore de Balzac
>
>>>> A Biography of George
Washington
>
>>>> W.H. Auden
>
>>>> Ezra Pound
>
>>>> Francois Rabelais
>
>>>> William Saroyan
>
>>>> Alan Harrington - The
Secret Swinger
>
>>>> Arthur Rimbaud
>
>>>> The Tibetan Book of
the Dead
>
>>>> John Reed - Ten Days
That Shook the World
>
>>>> Leo Tolstoy - War and
Peace
>
>>>> H.G. Wells - The
Outline of History, The Science of Life
>
>>>> John Steinbeck - East
of Eden
>
>>>> Giovanni Boccacio -
The Decameron
>
>>>> Kafka - The Castle
>
>>>> Edgar Allan Poe
>
>>>> Jean Cocteau - Opium,
The Blood of a Poet
>
>>>> Stendahl - The Red and
the Black
>
>>>> William Penn - Maxims
>
>>>> Greek Philosophy
this
seemed particularly vague to me - sort of like saying 20th century
novels....
:)
>
>>>> The Shadow
>
>>>> William Reich - The
Function of the Orgasm
>
>>>> Mark Twain
>
>>>> Yeats
>
>>>> Gertrude Stein
>
>>>> T.S. Eliot
>
>>>> Walt Whitman - Leaves
of Grass
>
>> W.H. Auden
>
>> e.e. cummings
>
>> Emily Dickinson
>
>> Henry David Thoreau
>
>> Ralph Waldo Emerson
>
> Robert Frost (Sherri)
>
> 42nd Parallel (Letter to Alfred
Kazin) Bill Gargan
goodness
he read a lot. i'm still wondering
about his reading habits.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
>
>>>> Now this does not mean
that he was influenced by all this...he is simply
>
>>>>documented in journals, letters, notebooks etc.in his own hand
that he had
>
>>read them. Some he didn't like, such as Gertrude Stein and T.S. Eliot.
feel
>
>>free to add to this list and I will post a final version on The Kerouac
>
>>Quarterly Web
>
>>>>Site and the quarterly. Thanks, Paul...
>
>>>>
>
>>>>
(courtesy of The Kerouac Quarterly)
>
>>>>"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway
to our virtues."
>
>>>> Henry David Thoreau
>
>>>>
>
>>> Voice contact at (514)
933-4956 in Montreal
>
>>>
>
>>> "Blessed are they
who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never
>
>>>cease to be amused."
>
>>>
>
>>"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our
virtues."
>
>> Henry David Thoreau
>
>>
>
>"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our
virtues."
>
>
Henry David Thoreau
>
>
>
"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our
virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 07:37:36 +0000
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: response to Bloom: exploding the
Canon II
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antoine
and tyson: (and anyone else)
i have
some of ron's latest poems someplace, smaller, more lyrical, and i
have I
WILL NOT BOW DOWN in which that poem you typed in was published, in
that
book my favorite poem is ALCHEMICAL RANT against time, would love to
type it
in but my fingers are still sprained. i'll rummage about and see
what i
have saved on disk.
saw ron
in louisville at the bohemian list RANT: he read "peonies" which is
absolutely
beautiful, lyrical poem. i should have that one too. oh me oh my
what a
mess my desk is.
i think
you can order I WILL NOT BOW DOWN through ron, if there are any
left.
it's an aboslutley beautiful book, many color illustrations:
paintings
by ferlinghetti and david minton.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 08:02:31 +0000
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: great american novel
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_Venus
on a half shell_ by kilgore trout.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 08:46:09 -0500
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From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Jack Kerouac reading e.e.cummings
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Eric,
Thanks very much Eric. That gives me
the impetus to search these out
-
perhaps at McGill's Library.
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"Blessed are they who can laugh at
themselves, for they shall never
cease
to be amused."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 09:12:00 -0400
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From: Preston Whaley
<paw8670@MAILER.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: great american novel
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This
list is fascinating and growing fatter,
healthier. Wondering if
anyone
has read and likes/hates/indifferent to E.L. Doctorow? A few
titles:
Daniel, Ragtime, Loon Lake, Worlds Fair, Billy Bathgate, The
Waterworks. To me, his books evince poignant, lyrical,
encyclopedic,
historical,
American, tragic voice like no other.
Preston
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 15:18:39 UT
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From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Jack Kerouac's Partial Reading List
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Jeff Taylor
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 1997 3:21 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: Jack Kerouac's Partial Reading
List
>
Put your additions at the bottom of the list so that there will be some
>
organization to this. Thanks, P.
>
>>>>A Partial Reading list of Jack Kerouac that is documented here
and
there:
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Galsworthy: Forsyte
Saga
>
>>>> Shakespeare -
everything
>
>>>> Thomas Wolfe -
everything
>
>>>> D.H. Lawrence - The
Rainbow
>
>>>> William Blake -
Marriage of Heaven and Hell
>
>>>> Oswald Spengler - The
Decline of the West
>
>>>> Celine - Journey To
the End of the Night, Death On the Installment
Plan,
>
>>>> Guignol's
Band
>
>>>> Melville - Omoo,
Typee, Billy Budd, Moby Dick, Encantandas
>
>>>> Jack London
>
>>>> Vladamir Nabokov -
Lolita
>
>>>> The Bible
>
>>>> Indian Scriptures
>
>>>> The Buddhist Bible
>
>>>> Ernest Hemingway
>
>>>> William Faulkner-
Pylon
>
>>>> Thomas Mann
>
>>>> Alain Fournier - Le
Grand Meaulnes
>
>>>> Daniel Defoe -
Robinson Crusoe
>
>>>> Edward Spenser -
Complete Poems
>
>>>> Matthew Arnold - Study
of Celtic Literature
>
>>>> A number of Buddhist
texts
>
>>>> Fyodor Dostoevsky -
probably everything
>
>>>> Gogol - Dead Souls
>
>>>> Theodore Dreiser -
Sister Carrie
>
>>>> Lawrence Ferlinghetti
>
>>>> Gustave Flaubert -
Salammbo
>
>>>> James Joyce - Ulysses,
Finnehan's Wake, Portrait of the Artist As a
>
>>Young Man
>
>>>> John Keats
>
>>>> Lin Yutang - Wisdom of
China and India
>
>>>> Francis Parkman - The
Oregon Trail
>
>>>> Honore de Balzac
>
>>>> A Biography of George
Washington
>
>>>> W.H. Auden
>
>>>> Ezra Pound
>
>>>> Francois Rabelais
>
>>>> William Saroyan
>
>>>> Alan Harrington - The
Secret Swinger
>
>>>> Arthur Rimbaud
>
>>>> The Tibetan Book of
the Dead
>
>>>> John Reed - Ten Days
That Shook the World
>
>>>> Leo Tolstoy - War and
Peace
>
>>>> H.G. Wells - The
Outline of History, The Science of Life
>
>>>> John Steinbeck - East
of Eden
>
>>>> Giovanni Boccacio -
The Decameron
>
>>>> Kafka - The Castle
>
>>>> Edgar Allan Poe
>
>>>> Jean Cocteau - Opium,
The Blood of a Poet
>
>>>> Stendahl - The Red and
the Black
>
>>>> William Penn - Maxims
>
>>>> Greek Philosophy
>
>>>> The Shadow
>
>>>> William Reich - The
Function of the Orgasm
>
>>>> Mark Twain
>
>>>> Yeats
>
>>>> Gertrude Stein
>
>>>> T.S. Eliot
>
>>>> Walt Whitman - Leaves
of Grass
>
>> W.H. Auden
>
>> e.e. cummings
>
>> Emily Dickinson
>
>> Henry David Thoreau
>
>> Ralph Waldo Emerson
>
> Robert Frost (Sherri)
>
> 42nd Parallel (Letter to Alfred
Kazin) Bill Gargan
Jean
Genet (Good Blonde & Others,
p.90--I know I've seen other references
but can't find them at the moment)
*******
Jeff
Taylor
taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
*******
Ginsberg,
Burroughs, Corso, McClure, di Prima, Rexroth, Cassady because they
were
all friends and discussed their work...
Rimbaud
(1960 or before) wrote the poem
"Rimbaud" in 1960, it's in "Scattered
Poems"
Proust,
Samuel Johnson, Boswell, Dante, Cervantes, Hesse (Steppenwolf),
Nietzsche,
R. L. Stevenson (Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde) because he mentions them in
"Big
Sur" (1962) (this may be a partial
listing - haven't had a chance to go
through
the entire book)
sherri
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Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 08:23:53 -0700
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From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: great american novel
In-Reply-To: <199711121303.IAA19952@pike.sover.net>
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ah- and
there is a great story behind this book!
you see
kilgore trout is a character in vonnegut's novels ( mostly in
_breakfast
of champions_) who writes 2nd rate scifi stories that only get
published
in porn mags (if i remember correctly) with changed titles. Jose
Phillip
Farmer read _breakfast of champions_ and enjoyed it so much that
he
asked vonnegut if he could write a book BY "kilgore trout". which he
did and
thus _venus on the half-shell_ was born. Farmer went ahead with
his
plans and got the book published as by "kilgore trout". Vonnegut
didnt
get a
dime and the book went into several printing until vonnegt asked
that it
be pulled (as far as i remember). if you would like another
AMAZING
work w/ a vonnegut connection, check out _Eden Express_ by MArk
Vonnegut
(kurt's son). AMAZING!
yrs
derek
On Wed,
12 Nov 1997, Marie Countryman wrote:
>
>
_Venus on a half shell_ by kilgore trout.
> mc
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 11:40:05 -0500
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From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Farmer
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That
Farmer's a crafty guy, it was he, of course, who wrote the ER/WS
Burroughs
parody I talked about on the list a while ago...
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 12:01:45 -0500
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From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: hooray for Vonnegut!
In-Reply-To: <971111231721_1246579019@mrin38>
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I
saw Vonnegut at the Borders Grand
Opening in NYC and I told him that I
found
it hard to believe that it was his last book, that writing is an
urge
and how can you stop having urges. All he said was that he was 75
years
old and after that, I lost alittle respect for him.
On Tue,
11 Nov 1997, John Gregorio wrote:
>
For those who have read, and enjoyed, Vonnegut over the years it was a nice
>
"goodbye." Yet, I would have
preferred, and I think it would have been a
>
better book, if he would have written a book of essays or another type of
>
non-fiction. Maybe an autobiography.
> Jack Gregorio
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 09:02:53 -0800
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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: great american novel
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At
08:23 AM 11/12/97 -0700, you wrote:
>ah-
and there is a great story behind this book!
>you
see kilgore trout is a character in vonnegut's novels ( mostly in
>_breakfast
of champions_) who writes 2nd rate scifi stories that only get
>published
in porn mags (if i remember correctly) with changed titles. Jose
>Phillip
Farmer read _breakfast of champions_ and enjoyed it so much that
>he
asked vonnegut if he could write a book BY "kilgore trout". which he
>did
and thus _venus on the half-shell_ was born. Farmer went ahead with
>his
plans and got the book published as by "kilgore trout". Vonnegut
didnt
>get
a dime and the book went into several printing until vonnegt asked
>that
it be pulled (as far as i remember). if you would like another
>AMAZING
work w/ a vonnegut connection, check out _Eden Express_ by MArk
>Vonnegut
(kurt's son). AMAZING!
>yrs
>derek
Yeah,
great fun book as I recall. I also
remember the back cover picture of
the
author was of a dog wearing a gasmask.
And
Eden Express is very good but it wil make you think you are going crazy
as well
it is so well done.
>
>On
Wed, 12 Nov 1997, Marie Countryman wrote:
>
>>
>>
_Venus on a half shell_ by kilgore trout.
>>
mc
>>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 12:27:01 -0500
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From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Old writers
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On Wed,
12 Nov 1997, Nancy B Brodsky wrote:
> I
saw Vonnegut at the Borders Grand
Opening in NYC and I told him that I
>
found it hard to believe that it was his last book, that writing is an
>
urge and how can you stop having urges. All he said was that he was 75
>
years old and after that, I lost alittle respect for him.
WSB
retired from the professional writing life, with the words, "Maybe I
just
don't have anything left to say"; however he did continue writing in
personal
journals. Actually, Burroughs' professional writing life ended
after
The Western Lands, since everything else that came out afterwards
was
either written before (ie. the reissue of Ghost of Chance) or just
assembled
dream journals (ie. My Education). The Western Lands was
published
when Burroughs was 73. I can't believe that Vonnegut is doing
nothing
creatively, perhaps he is just no longer writing novels. There are
other
things in life I suppose.
Just
some meaningless parallels (unless Burroughs and Vonnegut were
separated
at birth).
Cheers,
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:29:16 -0700
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From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
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Organization:
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Subject: mimeograph suggestions...
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beat-l'ers
a
freind of mine has "inherited" a mimeograph machine from a closing
greenpeace
office , that we are planning to play with. unfortunately none
of us
know how to use said machine and etc...
can
anyone recommend a few books, instructions (the machine has none) or
suggestions
on mimeograph machine possibilities and usage?
is this
possible?
yrs
derek
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Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 11:53:10 -0500
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From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: mimeograph suggestions...
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Friends,
Call
REFERENCE at your nearest library.
j grant
>beat-l'ers
>a
freind of mine has "inherited" a mimeograph machine from a closing
>greenpeace
office , that we are planning to play with. unfortunately none
>of
us know how to use said machine and etc...
>can
anyone recommend a few books, instructions (the machine has none) or
>suggestions
on mimeograph machine possibilities and usage?
>is
this possible?
>yrs
>derek
Small Press Authors and Publishers
display books
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Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 09:57:55 -0800
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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Old writers
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At
12:27 PM 11/12/97 -0500, you wrote:
>On
Wed, 12 Nov 1997, Nancy B Brodsky wrote:
>
>>
I saw Vonnegut at the Borders Grand
Opening in NYC and I told him that I
>>
found it hard to believe that it was his last book, that writing is an
>>
urge and how can you stop having urges. All he said was that he was 75
>>
years old and after that, I lost alittle respect for him.
>
I don't
know, but I seem to remember Vonnegut stating that this was his last
book a
few books ago.
Anyone
else remember this?
>WSB
retired from the professional writing life, with the words, "Maybe I
>just
don't have anything left to say"; however he did continue writing in
>personal
journals. Actually, Burroughs' professional writing life ended
>after
The Western Lands, since everything else that came out afterwards
>was
either written before (ie. the reissue of Ghost of Chance) or just
>assembled
dream journals (ie. My Education). The Western Lands was
>published
when Burroughs was 73. I can't believe that Vonnegut is doing
>nothing
creatively, perhaps he is just no longer writing novels. There are
>other
things in life I suppose.
>
>Just
some meaningless parallels (unless Burroughs and Vonnegut were
>separated
at birth).
>
>Cheers,
>Neil
>
>
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Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 13:03:05 -0500
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From: Marlene Giraud <M84M79@AOL.COM>
Subject: did JK read....?
hi all,
i was
just wondering if JK read any Henry Miller, he discusses a visit n BIG
SUR, so
i'm assuming he did. if so does anybody know the particular novel?
Does
this mean he could've read Anais Nin's diaries? maybe one of you can
answer.....
thanks,
~~Marlene
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Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:16:35 -0800
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From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Everson and Dreiser
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Nancy's
interaction with Vonnegut reminded me of the wonderful story
William
Everson tells of meeting Theodore Dreiser.
Everson was in a
Conscientious
Ojector camp in Waldport, Ore. during the War.
On
furlough
he and another poet (James Harmon) went to SF by bus down the
coast.
"As
we boarded the bus at Marshfield (JS--now Coos Bay) I noticed a man
who
seemed familiar. I said to myself '
That man looks like Theodore
Dreiser'. Harmon said it couldn't be, but Jeffers had
spoken of Dreiser
as a
'tough old mastadon,' and that's just the way he looked. Hulking
shoulders.
Slack jaws. Strangely inattentive eyes
that missed nothing.
Even in
his phtographs his configuration was unmistakable.
. . .
At Gold
Beach we pulled in for lunch. By this
time I was sure it was
Dreiser. As Harmon and I got ready to sit down Harmon
forgot about
lunch
and followed the man into the lavatory.
He came out as if he had
found
gold on that beach. 'It's him!' he
exclamed excitedly. 'It's
Dreiser
all right. Come on!
Even as
I got up I had my misgivings but curiousity got the better of
judgement. Dreiser was standing at the urinal relieving
himself, and
not
knowing what to else to do I began to talk.
I had never read any of
his
books, so I began with us. It was a
fatal mistake.
'Mr.
Dreiser,' I began,'we're two poets on furlough from a camp in
Waldport. We are going down to San Francisco. We hope to meet some of
the
other writers there and renew our aquantance with the literary scene
. . .'
Dreiser
looked at me and I suddently discovered I had nothing more to
say. He slowly buttoned his fly and as he turned
to wash his hands, he
said
two words with extreme irony: 'So what!'
Then he
started in. Ripping a paper towel from
the rack, he crumbled it
in
those feasome hands and proceeded with contempt. 'There are
thousands
of you. You crawl about the country
from conference to
literary
conference. You claim to be writers,
but what do you ever
produce? Not one of you will amount to a
goddamn. You have only the
itch to
write, nothing more . . .the insatiable itch to express
yourself. Everywhere I go I run into you, and I'm sick
you you. The
world
is being torn apart in agony, crying out for the truth, the
terrible
truth. And you . . '. He paused and his voice seemed suddenly
to grow
weary. 'You have nothing to say.'
I
turned to go. Harmon was already
gone. Opening the door into the
restaurant,
I looked back to let him know how sorry I was that I had
accosted
him, but I couldn't open my mouth. Then
Dreiser stepped past
me, as
if I had opened the door only for him.
For a moment the contempt
seemed
to fade from his face and a kind of geniality gleamed there.
'Well,'
he said, 'take it easy. It lasts longer
that way.' Then he was
gone.
Not
really gone. His seat was ahead of
ours, and we had already noticed
that he
was travelling with a young woman.
After Gold Beach, aware of
our
presence behind him, he kept stiffly aloof, convrsing with her
circumspectly. But far down the coast, at the end of a long
hot
afternoon,
when everyone was collapsed with fatigue, she could stand it
no
longer. Reaching out her hand she
stroked with tender fondness the
balding
head. Dazed with exhaustion he accepted
it gratefully until he
remembered
us. Suddenly thrashing his head like a
mastodon caught
redhanded
in a pterodactyl's nest he flung the hand from him. She never
tried
that again.
from
Golden Gate, Interviews with Five Poets--david meltzer.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:21:43 -0800
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From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: mimeograph suggestions...
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>
can anyone recommend a few books, instructions (the machine has none) or
>
suggestions on mimeograph machine possibilities and usage?
> is
this possible?
What a
relic! I used to use the damn things
but have mercifully
forgotten
most of it. Have no idea where to find
books--or probably
even
harder, supplies. You need stencils and
stuff. After than you
just
put in the stencil and crank away. And
of course you have to be a
very
accurate typist and own a typewriter (remember those) because as I
recall
it is almost impossible to correct. I most clearly remember the
smell
of the fluid. There were also
"ditto's" maybe you could
find one
of
those too!
J
Stauffer
J
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 13:30:29 -0500
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From: "M .Cakebread"
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Subject: Re: did JK read....?
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At
01:03 PM 12/11/97 -0500, Marlene wrote:
>i
was just wondering if JK read any Henry Miller,
>he
discusses a visit n BIG SUR, so i'm assuming he
>did.
if so does anybody know the particular novel?
>Does
this mean he could've read Anais Nin's diaries?
>maybe
one of you can answer.....
I
believe _The Air-Conditioned Nightmare_
was
a big
one. At a reading in Toronto, last
November, Ginsberg
talked
about this. He mentioned the above
novel, and
said
that they had heard a recording of Miller reading
and
were very taken with it.
I
believe there were a number of Miller novels in the
list
Jeffrey posted. I also remember reading
somewhere
(_Memory Babe_?) that he met Anais Nin
and
played one of his recordings for her.
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 13:41:36 -0500
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From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Mimeo Machine
Derek:
There's
a fellow up in Vancouver who puts out a zine on a mimeograph machine.
The
name of the zine is "Ralph: Coffee, Jazz, Poetry."
Contact
Ralph Alfonso at www.bongobeat.com
He'll
be glad to help you out...
Jeffrey
Water
Row Books
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 09:19:47 -0800
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From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: hooray for Vonnegut!
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Nancy,
Hasn't
the guy earned the right to do what he wants to! Writing is an
urge,
also damn hard work. Seems to me he is
entitled. A lot of damn
nerve,
I would say, to lose respect for the man on this point. The
moral
superiority the young feel toward the old is always a source of
amazement.
Does he owe you a few more books?
J.
Stauffer
Nancy B
Brodsky wrote:
I
>
found it hard to believe that it was his last book, that writing is an
>
urge and how can you stop having urges. All he said was that he was 75
>
years old and after that, I lost alittle respect for him.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 13:17:30 -0500
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From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: Interest from the Illiterate Re: The Great American Novel
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>well,
i like my ocean idea as well, but now we have to classify it,
>and
then name it, and then assign it a place in relation to all
>other
oceans...does it ever stop?
why, it's the best ocean of course, it
has to be.. the new stuff
always
is, and then it's replaced..
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 13:26:41 -0500
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From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
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Subject: Re: Old writers
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>On
Wed, 12 Nov 1997, Nancy B Brodsky wrote:
>>>
I saw Vonnegut at the Borders Grand
Opening in NYC and I told him
>that
I
>>>
found it hard to believe that it was his last book, that writing is
>an
>>>
urge and how can you stop having urges. All he said was that he was
>75
>>>
years old and after that, I lost alittle respect for him.
yeow! harshness! i have to wonder if the ideal you're holding him
up to
is a little unreal. i'm sure he has his
reasons, and just
because
he says it's his last book doesn't mean it will be, nor does it
mean
he's without the compulsion to write.
writing isn't all fun,
flowers,
and sunny days, and neither is knowing you have the virus. it
can be
like drug or alcohol addiction, i can remember more than one
occasion
in which i sorely needed to free myself from it, i wasn't able
to, and
i enjoy writing, but just because you're forced to do something
by
whatever cosmic branding iron's poking you in the ass, doesn't mean
you
have to like it, you know? it can be a
little overwhelming
sometimes,
needing to do something that badly but either being unable
to or
simply not wanting to. for my part i
wish him luck in trying to
escape
it, 'cause he's probably gonna need it.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 19:56:45 +0100
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: 9-9 by R.E.M. (fragment)
In-Reply-To: <199711121757.JAA20874@hsc.usc.edu>
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9-9 by R.E.M.
Steady repetition is a compulsion
mutually reenforced.
Now what does that mean?
Is there a just contradiction?
Nothing much.
Now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the Lord my soul to keep.
If I should die before I wake,
I pray the Lord, hesitate.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 13:11:51 -0500
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From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Another Kerouac and The Great
American novel
In-Reply-To: <199711120033.QAA15314@hsc.usc.edu>
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11-11-97
"Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU> wrote
>Philip
K. Dick (good call by John)
>
>Zora
Neale Hurston (a totally amazing oeuvre from anthropology to fiction
>and
it's all part of the same whole)
Freetings:
All the
books mentioned deserve being on the list, but with the addition of
Hurston's
name I thought I'd jump in with some I feel strongly about and
simply
could not be without:
The
Golden Bowl by Frderick Manfred
Daughter
of Earth by Agnes Smedley
Yonnondio:
From the Thirties by Tillie Olsen (also her Tell Me A Riddle)
The
Dread Road, & The Girl by Meridel LeSueur (and Women in the Breadlines.
See
Ripening:The Writings of Meridle LeSueur from Feminist Press for
samples
of her work--shsort story Moonbeams will tear your heart out.)
To Make
My Bread by Grace Lumpkin
The
People From Heaven by John Sanford
Salome
of the Tenements by Ansia Yezieska
Nelson
Algren,
Jack
Conroy,
Richard
Wright,
Zona
Gale,
T.
Drieser.
I have
an interesting and enlightening review of LeSueur's The Dread Road
along
with commentary about LeSueur by poet Chuck Miller at:
http://www.bookzen.com/books/0000066.html
(Links to review and analysis)
In this
article and review, written shortly before LeSueur died, Miller wrote:
"Henry
Miller, Keraouc and Bukowski are all dead. There is no one else left
of LeSueur's
stature in American literature today. She stands alone, a
giant,
waiting to be discovered by her own nation."
(Background
story: Miller is teaching a couple of courses in Iowa City, on
his
own. The university will not touch him
as a result of an incident that
happened
in a math class he was taking.
(Aside:
Miller has advanced degrees in math, chemistry, biology, English,
and
physics but he rarely is emplyed. Mostly tutoring. I think most
teachers
would love tobe able to be as outspoken about literature,poetry
and
teaching as Miller is, but survival demands grater degrees of
conformity.)
So he's
in this math calss--being taught by the head of the department--and
the
Prof sees Chuck and makes a stupidly, disparaging remark about Chuck
and his
poetry. Chuck stands and announces that he doesn't have a problem
with
people being critical of his poetry, as long as they have some sense
of what
creative writing is about. He walked out of the class, hired a
lawyer,
sued the university and the prof--for all the obvious reasons--and
with
the $15 thou he won he spent a year in the Scandinavial countries and
came
back with another book of poems.
Miller's
comments on the Iowa Writer's Workshop are scathing, articulate,
and
very funny. He roams and reads--here and there. If you see a notice
he's
worth a listen.)
Rushed.
Excuse typos.
j grant
Small Press Authors and Publishers
display books
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at
BookZen
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Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 11:16:46 -0800
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From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Stauffer's 20th Century Top Hit List
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Read
for your amusement or delete. Some of
my favorites, or books that
had a
big impact for me. I'm sure I have
forgotten some of my own
greatest
hits candidates at the moment. No pretense at comprehensivess
or
giving equal weight to some
Virginia
Woolf--Any of them
D.H.
Lawrence--The Rainbow, Sons and Lovers
Thomas
Pynchon--Gravity's Rainbow
Jack
Kerouac--On the Road/ Big Sur
James
Baldwin--Go Tell it On the Mountain, Another Country
Vladimir
Nabokov--Lolita, Laughter in the Dark
Gabriel
Garcia Maquez--Love in the Time of Cholera, Thousand Years of
Solitude
Willa
Cather--Death Comes for the Archibishop
William
Faukner--Absolom, Absolom
Malcolm
Lowry--Under the Volcano
Graham
Greene--The Power and the Glory and most the others
F.
Scott Fitzgerald--Gatsby, Tender is the Night, Last Tycoon
John
Dos Passos--USA
Thomas
Wolfe--Look Homeward Angel, Of Time and the River
Robert
Penn Warren--All the Kings Men
Ken
Kesey--Sometimes a Great Notion
"Pauline
Reage"--The Story of O
Henry
Miller--Tropic of Cancer
Charles
Plymell--Last of the Mocassins
Richard
Brautigan--Confederate General, Trout Fishing in America
Christopher
Isherwood--A Single Man
John
Rechy--Numbers
Richard
Farina-- Been Down so Long
Kingley
Amis--Lucky Jim
J. P.
Donleavy--The Ginger Man
WS
Burroughs--Naked Lunch
Milan
Kundera-- The Unbearable Lightness of Being, Eternity
John
Updike--Couples, the Rabbit Series
Albert
Camus--The Stranger
James
Joyce--Ulysses, Finnegan's Wake
Koestler--
Darkness at Noon
Boris
Pasternak--Dr. Zhivago
Jim
Harrison--Dalva and a bunch of the novels, Julip particularly
Larry
McMurtry--Leaving Cheyenne, All My Friends are Going to be
STrangers
Carlos
Casteneda--The Don Juan fictions
Norman
McLean--A River Runs through It
And of
course for non fiction prose.
Freud--Civilization
and it's Discontents
Reich--The
Function of the Orgasm
Julian
Jaynes--The Origin of Conciousness in the Bicameral Brain
This
could go on and on
(It's
interesting that we seem to start the 20th century after World War
I--otherwise
I'd be including Henry James, and
others who wrote into
the
century.)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 13:48:15 -0500
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From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: Another Kerouac and The Great
American novel
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> If Jack kerouac's spirit has been
reincarnated into another body
>(Jack
himself believed in reincarnation (je pense)), what would he be
>doing
in modern times? Would he be a
writer? Would he be famous?
>Would
>he
be a director?
well, first off i think the question is
somewhat, ummm, not really
lacking
in validity but it's like asking people about theoretical
situations
that won't happen.. i'm not quite able to say what i mean
without
risking someone interpreting my comments offensively...
if jack was reincarnated he's in me.. is
that enough ego for you
all?!
hehe.. and i'll tell you what he's doing, he's writing to you
right
now.. i question that jack put a lot of
faith in reincarnation,
i think
it was more just a neat idea that he played with as an
essentially
curious and romantic mind... i think he more fully admitted
the
notion of the essential futility and nonexistence of cosmic
matters,
not a nihilist mind you, but for jack i think there was a
difference
between the nature of Being, and the romanticism of life,
there
might not be a purpose or reality to anything, but we're "here"
doing
whatever it is we do, so why not burn burn burn like fabulous
roman
candles and be mad to be mad.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 11:42:08 -0800
Reply-To: Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: hooray for Vonnegut!
Comments:
To: stauffer@pacbell.net
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Hi
James, Nancy and everybody
First I
gotta thank you James for that great Dreiser interview by Everson in
the
John. I laughed heartily. Nice comment about having nothing to say but
an urge
to say it. Didn't stop Everson's urge to say what wonderful things
he had
on his mind.
Secondly
I want to tell you that at 72 I am not offended at all by Nancy's
spirited,
affection filled honest remarks. Please Nancy, don't stop speaking
your
feelings, I feel enriched by your honest spirited remarks. And no, this
is no
payback because you vouched for me being a nice guy.
How
would you feel when you discover that an idol of yours is drying up?
When
you hear a pitiful, what you might have hoped would be a non-sequitur,
turns
out to be the reason for don't expect nothing more from me no more.
Certainly,
as you say, everyone is entitled to relax when they feel ready,
and not
have to perform any longer. But the awe the respect that you felt
for the
person's output, well that's bound to suffer some. I still respect
Joe
Montana also. But some of the respect
that I felt for his awe inspiring
performance,
well some of that was lost when he retired for me also.
When I
was a young person, I could learn languages quickly. Today I don't
have
the same respect for my ability to remember so much so well.
It's
cool Nancy, us old timers can appreciate a little honesty too. Of
course,
if you knew the man as a person, not just as a writer, you might
find
reasons to respect him even more now than before, but I don't know the
man
either.
Ciao.
Reminds me, haven't heard from Rinaldo in awhile, that's not usual.
Hello
Rinaldo
leon
-----Original
Message-----
From:
James Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date:
Wednesday, November 12, 1997 10:41 AM
Subject:
Re: hooray for Vonnegut!
>Nancy,
>
>Hasn't
the guy earned the right to do what he wants to! Writing is an
>urge,
also damn hard work. Seems to me he is
entitled. A lot of damn
>nerve,
I would say, to lose respect for the man on this point. The
>moral
superiority the young feel toward the old is always a source of
>amazement.
Does he owe you a few more books?
>
>J.
Stauffer
>
>Nancy
B Brodsky wrote:
>I
>>
found it hard to believe that it was his last book, that writing is an
>>
urge and how can you stop having urges. All he said was that he was 75
>>
years old and after that, I lost alittle respect for him.
>>
>.-
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 15:50:41 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Jack Kerouac's Personal Library
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
01:02 AM 11/12/97 -0500, you wrote:
>In
making a list of Kerouac's reading material, here is information that will
>prove
helpful. The following books were in Kerouac's personal library when he
>died.
>All
books were well-read and some had notations in Kerouac's hand. I have not
>included
books written by Jack or anthologies with contributions by Jack
>although
a fairly good representation of his own works were present also. The
>following
list was first compiled by me back in 1992 when I was hired to sell
>these
books to collectors. Please note this list copyright 1992 Water Row
>Books.
>Jeffrey
Weinberg
>Water
Row Books
>
>Jeff-
I was wondering what books were actually sold off? Thanks, Paul...
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 20:58:56 UT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: FW: hooray for Vonnegut!
oops,
this went directly to Leon - sorry for the dupe Leon!! (wish we could
fix
this reply inconsistency!!)
----------
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 1997 12:33 PM
To: Leon Tabory
Subject: RE: hooray for Vonnegut!
i don't
know, Leon & Nancy...
my
respect for an artist, performer, etc., is based on his/her work. the
reasons
for stopping may make me sad. but the
work is still the same work no
matter
what. better to quit before one starts
producing sub-standard. i
still
have every bit of respect i ever had for Joe Montana or Joan Sutherland
or Kurt
Vonnegut or whomever. in fact, i admire
people more for respecting
their
art or craft and their audiences by not continuing when they no longer
feel
they can be viable in their respective fields.
after
all, would you want to remember Joe Montana as a broken down football
hero
who lost his team's chance at the playoffs because he insisted on playing
another
season when his body simply couldn't make the moves any more? not i.
i want
to remember him in his glory.
ciao,
sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Leon Tabory
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 1997 11:42 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: hooray for Vonnegut!
Hi
James, Nancy and everybody
First I
gotta thank you James for that great Dreiser interview by Everson in
the
John. I laughed heartily. Nice comment about having nothing to say but
an urge
to say it. Didn't stop Everson's urge to say what wonderful things
he had
on his mind.
Secondly
I want to tell you that at 72 I am not offended at all by Nancy's
spirited,
affection filled honest remarks. Please Nancy, don't stop speaking
your
feelings, I feel enriched by your honest spirited remarks. And no, this
is no
payback because you vouched for me being a nice guy.
How
would you feel when you discover that an idol of yours is drying up?
When
you hear a pitiful, what you might have hoped would be a non-sequitur,
turns
out to be the reason for don't expect nothing more from me no more.
Certainly,
as you say, everyone is entitled to relax when they feel ready,
and not
have to perform any longer. But the awe the respect that you felt
for the
person's output, well that's bound to suffer some. I still respect
Joe
Montana also. But some of the respect
that I felt for his awe inspiring
performance,
well some of that was lost when he retired for me also.
When I
was a young person, I could learn languages quickly. Today I don't
have
the same respect for my ability to remember so much so well.
It's
cool Nancy, us old timers can appreciate a little honesty too. Of
course,
if you knew the man as a person, not just as a writer, you might
find
reasons to respect him even more now than before, but I don't know the
man
either.
Ciao.
Reminds me, haven't heard from Rinaldo in awhile, that's not usual.
Hello
Rinaldo
leon
-----Original
Message-----
From:
James Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date:
Wednesday, November 12, 1997 10:41 AM
Subject:
Re: hooray for Vonnegut!
>Nancy,
>
>Hasn't
the guy earned the right to do what he wants to! Writing is an
>urge,
also damn hard work. Seems to me he is
entitled. A lot of damn
>nerve,
I would say, to lose respect for the man on this point. The
>moral
superiority the young feel toward the old is always a source of
>amazement.
Does he owe you a few more books?
>
>J.
Stauffer
>
>Nancy
B Brodsky wrote:
>I
>>
found it hard to believe that it was his last book, that writing is an
>>
urge and how can you stop having urges. All he said was that he was 75
>>
years old and after that, I lost alittle respect for him.
>>
>.-
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 13:04:01 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Harold Rhenisch
<rhenisch@WEB-TREK.NET>
Subject: Re the Great 20th C Novel at Sea
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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7bit
This
talk about the GAN has been very interesting.
I
especially enjoy the posts regarding the need to move the novel forward
and to cross
formal categories.
Interesting
all these lists, but I think they miss one point, namely that
there
are fine novels out there which would never make such a list, because
of one
flaw or another, but which contain nonetheless some very exciting
elements.
Livia
by Lawrence Durrell is one, in which Durrell peoples the novel with
the
characters of the novel the protagonist is writing, and they converse
with
the writer about the novel, while in all other respects interacting in
his
life exactly as would any flesh and blood person. An incredible
performance,
but not a great novel.
Sorry
that's not a Beat novel, but I really do prefer to read poetry, Beat
or
otherwise, so I'm not the one to say a lot about novels.
While
we're making lists, though, what about a list or discussion of books
which
have crossed formal categories and which might be (or are) building
stones
for the Great Ummerican Novel?
Trout
Fishing in America would be one, in a way, for stealing a whole bag
of
poetic tricks and because I love that used trout stream story.
There
must be 100s, but I can't think of them today.
Regards,
Harold
Rhenisch
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 16:05:40 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bruce Hartman
<bwhartmanjr@INAME.COM>
Subject: Re: hooray for Vonnegut!
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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7bit
I
thought it was great. . .!
Bruce
>speaking
of, what did everyone who read Timequake think?
>Janelle
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 13:09:32 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Harold Rhenisch
<rhenisch@WEB-TREK.NET>
Subject: Re: mimeograph suggestions...
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>
can anyone recommend a few books, instructions (the machine has none) or
>
suggestions on mimeograph machine possibilities and usage?
> is
this possible?
>What
a relic! I used to use the damn things
but have mercifully
>forgotten
most of it. Have no idea where to find
books--or probably
>even
harder, supplies. You need stencils and
stuff. After than you
>just
put in the stencil and crank away. And
of course you have to be a
>very
accurate typist and own a typewriter (remember those) because as I
>recall
it is almost impossible to correct. I most clearly remember the
>smell
of the fluid. There were also
"ditto's" maybe you could
find one
>of
those too!
>J
Stauffer
Aw,
shucks, but you used to get very interesting effects when the periods
and
commas typed right through the stencil, so that when they were
mimeographed
they were hollow rings. Sometimes it looked very weird.
Sometimes
it was appropriately ghostly.
It was
a satisfying and solid process, that stencil-typing, I remember.
Harold
Rhenisch
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 15:44:18 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeff Taylor
<taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Re: mimeograph suggestions...
Comments:
To: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
In-Reply-To: <3469F3B7.699@pacbell.net>
MIME-version:
1.0
Content-type:
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On Wed,
12 Nov 1997, James Stauffer wrote:
>
What a relic! I used to use the damn
things but have mercifully
>
forgotten most of it.
>
recall it is almost impossible to correct. I most clearly remember the
>
smell of the fluid.
You
mean that purple ink that smelled so good? The smell of a freshly
printed
"ditto" was the best thing about taking a test back in grade
school!
Haven't smelled it in a long time. (Of course, it probably causes
cancer
or something....)
*******
Jeff
Taylor
taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
*******
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 15:51:13 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Another Kerouac and The Great
American novel
In-Reply-To:
<msg1213606.thr-619ebe2b.55d4ae2@umit.maine.edu>
MIME-version:
1.0
Content-type:
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On Wed,
12 Nov 1997, Tyson Ouellette wrote:
>
> If Jack kerouac's spirit has been
reincarnated into another body
>
>(Jack himself believed in reincarnation (je pense)), what would he be
>
>doing in modern times? Would he be
a writer? Would he be famous?
>
>Would
>
>he be a director?
>
> well, first off i think the question is
somewhat, ummm, not really
>
lacking in validity but it's like asking people about theoretical
>
situations that won't happen...
But to
reject the cogency of hypothetical questions is like saying, "What
if
there were no hypothetical questions?"
*******
Jeff
Taylor
taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
*******
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 15:07:02 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: many thanks to Paul Maher Re: "On
the Road" ("Sulla strada")
Cover italian poket edition 1967.
Comments:
To: "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@pipeline.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
10.02 11/11/97 -0500, Paul wrote:
>Hi
Rinaldo - your cover you sent me is now posted. It can be found at:
>
>
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.html
>
>
> Thanks! Paul of TKQ...
>"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
> Henry David Thoreau
>
>
Paul,
u are
very nice to post the pic cover of "Sulla strada" (OTR in italian).
when i
read JK for the first time, i read a book
so
''strange'' beautiful (it was 1969, and i was 19year old).
and in
those times people have a love in reading book, i
remember
kids on the train wagon reading beckett, ionesco,
sartre,
etc. wonderful times...
i am
happy, Paul, you have a look at this time that's gone
forever...
the poket cover of the italian translation of OTR
perhaps
isn't the best cover of OTR... but HERE in ITALY
during
the '60s that's what young people had in their own
hands...
and it's a nice... nice... Paul, grazie di cuore!
un
cordiale saluto a tutti
da
rinaldo.
from
venice-mestre,italy
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 19:01:17 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: I Will Not Bow
I Will
Not Bow Down is a beautiful book. I
think Waterrow has copies.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 19:04:25 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: K's reading
Whoa! hold everything! I noticed "42nd Parallel" "Letter to Alfred
Kazin"
on the bottom of Paul's list. I MADE
THIS UP! It was just an
example
of how we should cite a source. If you
look at the original
post
you may notice that I cited "Selected Letters v. 2" which, of
course,
hasn't been published yet. Sorry, if I
caused any confusion.
Don't
want any ghost entries creeping into our project this early.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 16:15:24 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: der doc
<der_doc@ROCKETMAIL.COM>
Subject: whaqt's going on here?
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hello!
I'm
experiencing a little bit of trouble and maybe someone out there
can
help...
Recently
I used up all of the disk space allotted to me for my email.
This is
mostly due to me not checking it for a loooooong time.
Anyway,
to make a long story short, ever since my quota was exceeded,
I
haven't been getting any email from the Beat-L list, even though
I've
cleared enough disk space. If anybody
knows what the hell is
going
on, please email ME and not Beat-L... I gotta have my Beat-L
back!!!
Thanks,
Dr. AJ
Muszkiewicz
===
visit
my web site, The Beat(en) Regeneration
(http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6131)
for
info on the Beat, Beatnik and Neo-Beat subcultures
__________________________________________________________________
Sent by
Yahoo! Mail. Get your free e-mail at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 18:23:00 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: K's reading
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Bill
Gargan wrote:
>
>
Whoa! hold everything! I noticed "42nd Parallel" "Letter to Alfred
>
Kazin" on the bottom of Paul's list.
I MADE THIS UP! It was just an
>
example of how we should cite a source.
If you look at the original
>
post you may notice that I cited "Selected Letters v. 2" which, of
>
course, hasn't been published yet.
Sorry, if I caused any confusion.
>
Don't want any ghost entries creeping into our project this early.
roflmao!!!!!
let's
have a separate list of things that letters vol. 2 will reveal he
read!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 19:50:22 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: beat courses
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just a follow-up note to the
discussion about beat courses in
schools..
noticed in the schedule for next semester they have a
freshman
level english topics course on the beats.. which will include
3 books
about the beats, charters' being on of them, lots of beat
material,
as well as a study of their influence on people like Bob
Dylan,
etc.. the desc. says to be ready for lots of reading, writing,
performing,
presenting, and rock music... looks cool...
will see if i
can get
into it and let you all know how that scene goes...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 20:44:49 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: K's reading
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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At
07:04 PM 11/12/97 EST, you wrote:
>Whoa! hold everything! I noticed "42nd Parallel" "Letter to Alfred
>Kazin"
on the bottom of Paul's list. I MADE
THIS UP! It was just an
>example
of how we should cite a source. If you
look at the original
>post
you may notice that I cited "Selected Letters v. 2" which, of
>course,
hasn't been published yet. Sorry, if I
caused any confusion.
>Don't
want any ghost entries creeping into our project this early.
>
I took
your word for it because of the source...you should be flattered. Paul:)
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 11:20:07 +0900
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Timothy Hoffman <timothy@GOL.COM>
Subject: Re: E.L. Doctorow
In-Reply-To:
<v01540b00b08f58189cd9@[146.201.2.118]>
Mime-Version:
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Preston
Whaley writes:
>This
list is fascinating and growing fatter,
healthier. Wondering if
>anyone
has read and likes/hates/indifferent to E.L. Doctorow? A few
>titles:
Daniel, Ragtime, Loon Lake, Worlds Fair, Billy Bathgate, The
>Waterworks. To me, his books evince poignant, lyrical,
encyclopedic,
>historical,
American, tragic voice like no other.
>
>Preston
I
enjoyed reading Billy Bathgate very much, and wonder (a beat-related
wonder)
how Doctorow's treatment of Dutch Shutlz compares with Burroughs'
"Last
Words of Dutch Schultz" which I admit to only being familiar with
from
the audio treatment contained on Burroughs' "Spare Ass Annie". Can
anyone
out there tell me more?
:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::
Timothy
Hoffman
Komaki
English Teaching Center (KETC)
Komaki
Shiminkaikan, KETC
2-107
Komaki
Komaki,
Aichi 485
work
(0568) 76-0905
fax
(0568) 77-8207
home
(0568)72-3549
timothy@gol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 02:42:08 UT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Shani St.John"
<lawlaw1@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: LECTURE SERIES
I'm
sponsoring a lecture series on the beats.
it will feature (if I can get
them)
Gary Snyder, Larry Ferlinghetti, and Gary Snyder. What do you guys
think
about these choices. Have you heard any
of these writers speak(besides
Snyder)?
Thanks!!!!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 22:02:03 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tracy J Neumann <tjneuman@UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Lawrence Lipton
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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I was
wondering if anyone could suggest sources for some background info
on
Lawrence Lipton. I'd like to include
him in my thesis, but other than
Holy
Barbarians, I know nothing about him or his life. If anyone could
direct
me, I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks,
Tracy
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 23:15:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Lawrence Lipton
In a
message dated 97-11-12 22:36:53 EST, you write:
<<
I was wondering if anyone could suggest sources for some background info
on Lawrence Lipton. I'd like to include him in my thesis, but other than
Holy Barbarians, I know nothing about him or
his life. If anyone could
direct me, I'd really appreciate it.
>>
Check
out "Venice West" by John Maynard and Dictionary of Literary
Biography.
Beats
volume edited by Ann Charters (Gale Research Co.) - available at large
libraries...
Jeffrey
WRB
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 01:05:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: beat courses
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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>From
the Kerouac Cd -Rom:
Notebook entry, 1940
Required reading for J.K.
1. Indian Scriptures
2. Chinese Scriptures
3. Old and New Testament
4. Gibbon & Plutarch
5. Homer (again)
6. Shakespeare (again)
7. Wolfe (always)
Etc. Etc.
"Finnegan's Wake"
"Outline of History" again
Thoreau and Emerson
Joseph Conrad
Proust's "Rememberance"
Dante (again)
And inscribed in his copy of Lolita is this:
What decency really is, can never be
outraged- This is a great book by the
world's
most honest and smartest living writer. JK
-The Kerouac Quarterly-
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 00:52:39 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Jon B. Pearlstone"
<THYE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: LECTURE SERIES
The
lecture series sounds great---
Please
tell me more about it--we are specialists in audio production and
distribution
on public radio and in retail distribution and would be VERY
interested
in professionally taping the series--or at the very least
attending.
Please
contact me ASAP with more information.
Thank
you
Sincerely,
Jon
Pearlstone
Alternative
Audio
THYE@AOL.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 21:56:23 -0800
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: LECTURE SERIES
MIME-Version:
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Shani,
You are
having Gary twice? He'd be fine. Ferlinghetti also.
js
it will feature (if I can get
>
them) Gary Snyder, Larry Ferlinghetti, and Gary Snyder. What do you guys
>
think about these choices. Have you
heard any of these writers speak(besides
>
Snyder)?
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 22:07:44 PST
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Warning : long winded Re: FW: hooray for
Vonnegut!
Content-Type:
text/plain
>Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 20:58:56 UT
>Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From:
Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
>Subject: FW: hooray for Vonnegut!
>To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
Dear
Sherri, James and everyone,
It may
not seem that I am trying to stay back, but see how sore my
tongue
is - it's from biting it so much. :-). I think it would be nice
if more
people's voices were heard, and not just the few soloists
dominate
so much of our symphony. But there are many factors afoot and
the few
who are willing are enriching us so much by sharing with us
their
thoughts, their ways, etc. etc.. You have been warned, you can
delete
the coming windy reply. As long as I am not discouraging anyone
from
bringing us their voices, hey we are here to exchange ideas, to
examine
our ideas, to provoke some thought.
So here
I am again. Sherri and James, I my be biased because i love your
contributions
to us, I continue to learn so much from both of you. Maybe
that is
the reason I can't find anything to disagree with about what you
respect
in artist's work or their decisions not to. No question of any
kind in
my mind that my respect for an artist, performer, etc., is based
on
his/her work. I may wish to see more from them, but I don't presume
to be
in a position to judge their decisions.
At the
same time I don't see any reason to change my mind about anything
that
Nancy or I felt here. I don't presume any rights to judge other
people's
decisions, in their art or in their lives, as long as they are
not
hurtful to others unfairly. Being
different people, and yes the
years
that we have lived on this planet do make a difference in the
innocence
and force of our impulses and, judgments. But I don't think
that
Nancy said that she has such privileges either. Nothing was
mentioned
about that to my knowledge.
Respect
belongs to the person who feels it, and different people respect
different
things. Nancy, was not speaking about changing her evaluations
of a
work of art because the artist went on to disappoint
her. She
did not assert any rights to alter the artist's decision.
She had
an emotional gut reaction to the response she got from Vonnegut.
She is
just as entitled to her response to the great artist, as he is
entitled
to exercise his responsiblity to make decisions that he will
have to
live with, and that others never know as much about as he does.
By
giving to us he did not obligate himself to give up his life.
The
only arguable questions here are whether Nancy had a right to react
negatively
to the great man's response. Whether she is obligated to keep
up her
respect of the author as much as she respected him before. No
question
in my mind that not only does she have the right to react as
she
does, I congratulate her and thank her for sharing with us the
genuine
reaction that she did have.
I
respect a person who maintains friendliness and responsiveness,
whatever
their artistic accomplishments are. If they show a lack of
friendliness,
respect for their audience, I can't respect them for that.
Not to
take any of their rights away, or the respect that their work
merits.
Nancy
only said that she lost a little of her respect for the man, not
his
works, after he gave what to her seemed a not sufficiently adequate
response.
I agree
with Nancy that age alone does not really describe a reason.
Some
people stay active and healthy and interested and productive in
their
eighties and beyond. Some are happier to retire at a younger age
when
they can still anjoy themselves, they feel. They all have a right
to
explore how well their decisions work for them. It is their business.
It is
their only life.
Their
fans have a right to ask the questions. They don't have an
obligation
to respect reluctance to reply. Is it health, is it loss of
interest,
is it loss of capacity, is it time for a change, those ar all
interesting
questions, that I would expect to be addressed by someone
who had
respect for me as a client and my question. We would hope to
learn
about from the people who tried to talk to us a lot and are
stopping.
Was it hard for him to answer? I would respect him more if he
said
"This is hard for me to answer". I reserve the right to respect
more
the artist who bothers to offer answers after spending a lifetime
looking
for an audience to talk to.
It is
easy for elders to disrespect the younger ones. The elders who
have
aquired years of experience which is weighty but can be very very
wrong
also. Personally I think that quite possibly Vonnegut dismissed
another
young person's question, the way some of us dismiss the ways of
the
"x-generation". Quite the same way that Dreiser unfairly dismissed
Everson
and all the young aspiring writers. I can respect Dreiser's work
and not
respect his rude unfair dismissing attitude toward young
aspiring
authors.
If you
have a question of the "ravages of age" that you should expect, I
can not
talk for 75 year olds or for other people of any age, but I can
tell
you from personal experience, that a life full of hardships and
stresses,
still did not leave me impaired at 72 to any appreciable
extent.
My body has developed its share of wrinkles, my muscles are not
as
toned as they were in my youth, but they can carry out everything
that I
ask of them, I have a strong appetite, sleep well, like to do my
work,
keep taking courses in school for my continued enjoyment of
discovery,
and am opening up new horizons of interest in literature and
writing.
I have not been that enthused about writing , like this post,
in my
younger years. Should I expect then that at 75 my urges and
activities
will be curtailed or shifted? Maybe. Maybe not. Kurt chose
not to
enlighten me about that. Whether you want to respect it or
consider
it irrelevant is totally up to you. I don't blame yo Nancy for
feeling
offended at the offhand dismissal of your question and statement
of love
for Kurt's work that was implicit in it.
leon
The
reasons for her reactions are interesting. They are genuine.
She
felt disappointed in a man who uses his age, 75, as a reason. Not
health.
Not other factors that affect different people differently as
they
grow older. Just age. He was not forthcoming with a fuller
explanation.
Does a fan have any rights? No. But. Fans feelings are
important
and have their legitimate validity as well. For example a
brilliant
writer, who seeks out an audience to listen out to his/her
beautiful
thoughts, has a right to say I don't give a damn what you
think
aboput me. Readers have a right to respect or not to respect the
writer.
said
that she was disappointed
>reasons
for stopping may make me sad. but the
work is still the same
work no
>matter
what. better to quit before one starts
producing sub-standard.
i
>still
have every bit of respect i ever had for Joe Montana or Joan
Sutherland
>or
Kurt Vonnegut or whomever. in fact, i
admire people more for
respecting
>their
art or craft and their audiences by not continuing when they no
longer
>feel
they can be viable in their respective fields.
>
>after
all, would you want to remember Joe Montana as a broken down
football
>hero
who lost his team's chance at the playoffs because he insisted on
playing
>another
season when his body simply couldn't make the moves any more?
not i.
>i
want to remember him in his glory.
>
>ciao,
sherri
>
>
>----------
>From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Leon Tabory
>Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 1997 11:42 AM
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Subject: Re: hooray for Vonnegut!
>
>Hi
James, Nancy and everybody
>
>First
I gotta thank you James for that great Dreiser interview by
Everson
in
>the
John. I laughed heartily. Nice comment about having nothing to say
but
>an
urge to say it. Didn't stop Everson's urge to say what wonderful
things
>he
had on his mind.
>
>Secondly
I want to tell you that at 72 I am not offended at all by
Nancy's
>spirited,
affection filled honest remarks. Please Nancy, don't stop
speaking
>your
feelings, I feel enriched by your honest spirited remarks. And no,
this
>is
no payback because you vouched for me being a nice guy.
>
>How
would you feel when you discover that an idol of yours is drying
up?
>When
you hear a pitiful, what you might have hoped would be a
non-sequitur,
>turns
out to be the reason for don't expect nothing more from me no
more.
>Certainly,
as you say, everyone is entitled to relax when they feel
ready,
>and
not have to perform any longer. But the awe the respect that you
felt
>for
the person's output, well that's bound to suffer some. I still
respect
>Joe
Montana also. But some of the respect
that I felt for his awe
inspiring
>performance,
well some of that was lost when he retired for me also.
>
>When
I was a young person, I could learn languages quickly. Today I
don't
>have
the same respect for my ability to remember so much so well.
>
>It's
cool Nancy, us old timers can appreciate a little honesty too. Of
>course,
if you knew the man as a person, not just as a writer, you
might
>find
reasons to respect him even more now than before, but I don't know
the
>man
either.
>
>Ciao.
Reminds me, haven't heard from Rinaldo in awhile, that's not
usual.
>Hello
Rinaldo
>
>leon
>-----Original
Message-----
>From:
James Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
>To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Date:
Wednesday, November 12, 1997 10:41 AM
>Subject:
Re: hooray for Vonnegut!
>
>
>>Nancy,
>>
>>Hasn't
the guy earned the right to do what he wants to! Writing is an
>>urge,
also damn hard work. Seems to me he is
entitled. A lot of damn
>>nerve,
I would say, to lose respect for the man on this point. The
>>moral
superiority the young feel toward the old is always a source of
>>amazement.
Does he owe you a few more books?
>>
>>J.
Stauffer
>>
>>Nancy
B Brodsky wrote:
>>I
>>>
found it hard to believe that it was his last book, that writing is
an
>>>
urge and how can you stop having urges. All he said was that he was
75
>>>
years old and after that, I lost alittle respect for him.
>>>
>>.-
>>
>.-
>
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 03:46:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: GAN
When I
read Kerouac, I want to write.
When I
read Vonnegut, I want to read.
But the
best book for me is
Confederacy
of Dunces by John Kennedy Toole.
A#1
so it
goes, Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 03:46:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Beat and Kerouac books for sale
Hello,
If you
are interested in a short list of Kerouac and beat books for sale
(most
are collectible) please e mail me and I will send you the list.
thanks
Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 03:11:53 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: another Kerouac?
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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At
02:13 PM 11/8/97 EST, you wrote:
>On
Fri, 7 Nov 1997 23:41:37 -0500 Dennis Cardwell said:
>>Thanks,
Donahue! Post-modernism leaves us older
folks feeling as if our
>>world
is already gone. The essayists who get
such short shrift today are
>>indeed
carrying on a tradition begun far before the beats, but not ignored by
>>them. The Best American Essays series is
outstanding with a different editor
>>each
year, the newest 1997 is now available in paperback. Haven't dipped
>>into
it yet, but I know much joy and enlightenment awaits. I usually read
>>the
BAE series in order of essay length, shortest to longest, and quit when I
>>realize
an essay is out of my interest area, skip to the next. Poetic
>>indeed. Most of these writers are true
craftsmen(persons) using words with
>>the
precision and sure skill expected of brain surgeons. Other such
>>anthologies
are available in big book stores.
EVERYONE SHOULD READ jOSEPH
>>MITCHELL's
Up In the Old Hotel, if only for the major league, major lead
>>essay
on McSorley's. Kisses, starfishes, and
knishes! DCard
>
>
> I
second this recommendation: Mitchell's
book is wonderful.
>
>
Many of
us seem to read the same stuff. Mike
Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 08:36:25 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Neil Hennessy <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: beat courses
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.32.19971113060502.0069a754@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version:
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Content-Type:
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On Thu,
13 Nov 1997, Paul A. Maher Jr. wrote:
> >From
the Kerouac Cd -Rom:
> And inscribed in his copy of Lolita is this:
>
> What decency really is, can never be
outraged- This is a great book by the
>
world's most honest and smartest living writer. JK
Ahh, I
agree almost completely (I'd call Burroughs the most honest). Funny
though,
I always thought Lolita paled in comparison with Bend Sinister,
Pnin,
and Pale Fire. It's just the one that produced the most controversy.
Pnin
should be required reading for any faculty or student involved in the
university
game. Does Nabokov appear on many American Lit syllabi? I
haven't
seen him listed for courses in and around my school.
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 08:56:38 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Preston Whaley
<paw8670@MAILER.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: LECTURE SERIES
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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I don't
know how keen Ferl. and Snyder would be to lecture but I bet they's
rather
read, and they're readings are great from what I have heard
personally
and from others. David Meltzer, Steven
Watson, and Rebecca
solnit
lectured well at the Beats at de Young exhibition last year in S.F.
Meltzer
didn't really lecture but participated in a panel; he was eloquent
and
seems to have thought alot about the Beats and especially the influence
of
their legacy. For what it's worth,
Preston
>I'm
sponsoring a lecture series on the beats.
it will feature (if I can get
>them)
Gary Snyder, Larry Ferlinghetti, and Gary Snyder. What do you guys
>think
about these choices. Have you heard any
of these writers speak(besides
>Snyder)?
>
>Thanks!!!!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 06:57:51 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: CARL PORTER <CPORTER@WEBER.EDU>
Subject: Beat and Kerouac books for sale -Reply
Comments:
To: GYENIS@AOL.COM
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain
Attila
Please
send me a list of the Kerouac books.
carl
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 09:08:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Preston Whaley
<paw8670@MAILER.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: E.L. Doctorow
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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>Preston
Whaley writes:
>
>>This
list is fascinating and growing fatter,
healthier. Wondering if
>>anyone
has read and likes/hates/indifferent to E.L. Doctorow? A few
>>titles:
Daniel, Ragtime, Loon Lake, Worlds Fair, Billy Bathgate, The
>>Waterworks. To me, his books evince poignant, lyrical,
encyclopedic,
>>historical,
American, tragic voice like no other.
>>
>>Preston
>
>I
enjoyed reading Billy Bathgate very much, and wonder (a beat-related
>wonder)
how Doctorow's treatment of Dutch Shutlz compares with Burroughs'
>"Last
Words of Dutch Schultz" which I admit to only being familiar with
>from
the audio treatment contained on Burroughs' "Spare Ass Annie". Can
>anyone
out there tell me more?
>
>
>:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::
>Timothy
Hoffman
>Komaki
English Teaching Center (KETC)
>Komaki
Shiminkaikan, KETC
>2-107
Komaki
>Komaki,
Aichi 485
>work
(0568) 76-0905
>fax
(0568) 77-8207
>home
(0568)72-3549
>timothy@gol.com
Hm,
interesting
point. haven't read or heard the Burr.'s piece but will.
Several
months ago the tv program -- is it
"Biography" ? --
presented
Schulz
as ambitious, charming, and arbitrarily murderous.
Preston
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 09:43:00 EST
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: LECTURE SERIES
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 12 Nov 1997 02:42:08 UT from
<lawlaw1@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Great
choices! Hope you can get them.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 09:44:51 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Lawrence Lipton
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 12 Nov 1997 22:02:03 -0500
from
<tjneuman@UMICH.EDU>
Take a
look at John Maynard's "Venice West." (1991). Also check the
entry
in the Dictionary of Literary Biography, v. 16 "The Beats" if you
haven't
done so already.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 07:50:35 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: LECTURE SERIES
In-Reply-To:
<UPMAIL14.199711130256040715@classic.msn.com> from "Shani
St.John" at Nov 12, 97
02:42:08 am
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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>
I'm sponsoring a lecture series on the beats.
it will feature (if I can get
>
them) Gary Snyder, Larry Ferlinghetti, and Gary Snyder. What do you guys
You may
want to also consider Larry Ferlinghetti and Gary Snyder, just to
round
it out.
Sorry! Just kidding. How about Gregory Corso, David Amram, and to
bring
you into the 90's, Ron Whitehead? Also
maybe Gregory Corso.
-------------------------------------------------------
| Levi
Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
|
| |
| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (the beat literature web site) |
|
|
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
|
|
|
*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---* |
| |
| "When I was crazy, I thought you
were great" |
| -- Ric
Ocasek |
-------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 11:39:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Lawrence Lipton
Find
"Venice West" by John Arthur Maynard, published about 5 years ago (I
think
Rutgers Univ. press, but I may be wrong on that) a GREAT book about
Lipton
and the Venice/LA Beat Scene in the 50's.
Probably the best
retrospective
on the Beat Era - also interesting because it focuses on beats
besides
the "big three".
John is
a sometime contributor to this list, are you lurking out there?
Howard
Park
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 11:17:18 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: my comments on Patricia's posts
In-Reply-To: <3463D5DC.57BF@pacbell.net>
Mime-Version:
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>Leon
Tabory wrote:
>> Even as Kerouac's biographer our own Gey
>>
Nicosia likes to point out about Paul, what do you expect from a man who is
>>
a convicted criminal, felon? Don't mean to fan the flames and I am not
>>
saying it with any ill feeling toward Nicosia, I understand that anything
>>
that helps undermine the dredibility of an opponent is to be used in serious
>>
battle.
By the
time Nicosia had mentioned Paul's criminal record, Paul had said
things
about Nicosia that were not true. Nicosia was simply pointing out
that
Paul's credibility today is not significantly better than it was back
then.
Paul's doing, not Nicosia's.
Just
because a person has done a little time doesn't mean they cannot be
trusted.
But when an excon slanders and lies about a person whose
reputation
is untarnished then that excon has to expect a little truth in
return.
It's something SOME excons learn to live with.
I have
never distrusted Paul because he's an ex-con, but I distrust him and
will
never accept him at his word after what he has said about Gerry
Nicosia.
j grant
Small Press Authors and Publishers display
books
FREE at BookZen http://www.bookzen.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 09:45:41 -0800
Reply-To: jmaynard@csubak.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Arthur Maynard
<John_Maynard@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lawrence Lipton
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Howard
Park wrote:
>
Find "Venice West" by John Arthur Maynard, published about 5 years
ago (I
>
think Rutgers Univ. press, but I may be wrong on that) a GREAT book about
>
Lipton and the Venice/LA Beat Scene in the 50's. Probably the best
>
retrospective on the Beat Era - also interesting because it focuses on beats
>
besides the "big three".
>
>
John is a sometime contributor to this list, are you lurking out there?
>
>
Howard Park
Yup. Thanks for the kind words.
BTW,
for those interested in the Venice people, the collected poems of Stuart
Perkoff
are supposed to be out soon. There is
also a Lipton autobiography that
is
ostensibly ready to run, but I wouldn't bet the farm that it actually will.
jm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 13:33:54 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: 1st & last response to Grant's
attempt to start a flame war.
Mime-Version:
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Who's
an ex-con? is a misdemeanor offense a convict? And specify if you can
the
untruths I have laid on Mr. Nicosia, who, as far as I'm concerned I have
made
clear that I am not interested in resorting to commenting upon this
issue
with any longer. I stole books as a young man...about eight years ago.
I have
regretted it ever since. Sine then I have graduated from college with
a 3.8
GPA. I am Honorably Discharged from the U.S. military with a Good
Conduct
Award and a Sea Service Ribbon for duty in the Persian Gulf.I have
written
a 500+ page book on Jack Kerouac and Lowell among other things.
What,
may I ask, is your background Mr. Grant? Besides being a puppet for
your
benefactor and who only pledges to accomplish great things behind a web
site
decorated with lies and adorned with slander. Are you telling me you
have a
spotless record? Now I could care less how you percieve me and my
credibility
becasue you do not matter to me. What matters is how you are
trying
to perceive yourself to others on this list....you are trying to
start
another flame war which I won't be provoked into again. I have
written,
on a number of occasions, that I respect Mr. Nicosia's work on his
book. I
have made critical commentary on what I think is wrong with the
book.
He is free to do the same with mine when it is published. I have
commented
on some things that were said by he about certain aspects of his
lawsuit.
As long as I am not slandering or committing libel, that is my
priviledge.What
have you done for this list except to echo what was fed to
you and
pretended you were in a position to make intelligent commentary
about
it. As far as I can see, your testament to all this is a mouldering
slug
who likes to break the peace and calm of this list by bringing up past
issues.
I'm an ex-con? If it was true so what? I stole library books. Jack
Kerouac
stole the Buddhist Bible from the New York Public Library. Huncke
stole
coats and Neal Cassady stole cars. Am I not in good company with the
subject
matter? Take a good long look at your pathetic grimacing visage and
comment
to us on that...that is the issue here, I have plainly criticized
and
made clear what I have done and if people really want to know then by
all
means charge to Mr. Grant's web site, it is the doorstop to lies
negativity
for cyberspace. Paul...
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 10:35:28 -0800
Reply-To: Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: my comments on Patricia's posts
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-----Original
Message-----
From:
Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>
To:
jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Date:
Thursday, November 13, 1997 10:33 AM
Subject:
Re: Re: my comments on Patricia's posts
>Hi
Joe,
>-----Original
Message-----
>From:
jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
>To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Date:
Thursday, November 13, 1997 9:11 AM
>Subject:
Re: my comments on Patricia's posts
>
>
>
>>Just
because a person has done a little time doesn't mean they cannot be
>>trusted.
But when an excon slanders and lies about a person whose
>>reputation
is untarnished then that excon has to expect a little truth in
>>return.
It's something SOME excons learn to live with.
>
>Hi
Joe,
>No
flames, no ill feelings, just would like some of you Beat-L to know that
>this
here ex-convict, who done a lot of time, not just a little, still
don't
>feel
that this makes me fair game, what do you expect, learn to live with
>it,
you is a guy with a tarnished reputation.
>
>Quite
the contrary Joe. I feel proud of my past. My ex-convict status is a
>badge
of honor in my own mind, and in the mind of my friends, including my
>children,
I might add. Including a former Parole Officer who still
considers
>himself
a friend and keeps my picture on his office wall.
>
>What
some folks make of it, or what they make out of other aspects of
>myself,
ain't much of my reality. I am not saying that it doesn't bother me
>when
people are condemned by some whose values are quite different than
>their
own. Of course it bothers me, but if you think that their tags as
>ex-con
or sinner or evil-doer stick to my skin, you are quite a bit
>mistaken.
The tarnish of my reputation is of their own making and stays in
>their
books, not mine.
>
>Before
you condemn me as arrogant I want to explain. I have paid my dues
for
>my
beliefs. Mostly the reason that I became a sought target in the
"criminal
>jusitce"
system is because I was very vociferous in not being ashamed of my
>interest
in marijuana and psychedelics, and my feeling that as an educated
>perosn
very well aware of the issues that it was shameful for me to have to
>hide
what I am doing, like many of my collegues did. Did it but hid it. I
>also
felt a responsibility to many of the young people who heard me state
>publicly
my opinions and later got inot trouble with the law. I said to
>myself
that yes, I am willing to share the social and legal cosequences
that
>our
society was dishing out to us for doing what I believed was right. I am
>proud
to find out that indeed without evasiveness I was able to survive
>intact
all of the obstacles they put in my way.
>
>I
could have easily continued practicing my profession that provided me a
>Porsche
and lots of leisure time by 1964, and no one would have examined my
>spice
cabinet that I could stack with whatever I wanted, just like my many
>"successful"
collegues did. I thought that I could afford a lot more self
>respect
and I am happy to report to you that I feel very good that I did,
>even
if that led me to many years of imprisonment and all sorts of
>hardships.
In my own eyes my reputation is polished quite the opposite of
>tarnished.
In the prisons I have run into many
more honorable people like
>myself,
more than outside the prison walls
sometimes.
>
>No
ill feelings Joe. Just letting you know how I feel about your idea that
>being
an ex-con I have a tarnished reputation that I have to learn to live
>with.
If you are wondering whether ignorant folks bother me or have
>interfered
with my life, or if i have been handicapped by that criminal
>record,
the answer is not at all. I am doing what I want to no one has
dared
>use
my record against me in any way.
>
>Setting
the record straight?
>leon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 13:57:43 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "PoOka(the friendly ghost)"
<jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
Subject: star wars and Kerouac?
Mime-Version:
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its a
shame that Kerouac didn't live to see star wars. Before you all
accuse
me of being shallow, think about this: star wars is an epic film of
imagination,
a modern myth using ideas from classic literature. There's a
book
out right now that compares the star wars genre to myth. Would the
beats
"dig" such cinematic attempts?
jason
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 14:10:08 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Gary - Larry - Harry Lecture Series!
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As well
as Levi's suggestions for the lecture, I'd add Gregory Corso and
Larry
Ferlinghetti....just kidding - couldn't resist!
Does anyone actually call him
Larry?...it doesn't exactly trip off
my
tongue.
I was actually thinking that if Harry
"the Hipster" Gibson hadn't
died,
it would have been a treat to contemplate a Gary - Larry - Harry
lecture! ....although god knows what Harry would have
had to say about the
beats,
much less about literature!
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"Blessed are they who can laugh at
themselves, for they shall never
cease
to be amused."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 12:01:57 MST/MDT
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "j."
<NIEL1000@BADGER.SNOW.EDU>
i too
am an excon: but i am a graduate of the juvenile court system:
i feel
there is a certain red badge of courage for surviving what i
put
myself through: and the insight and wisdom gained from my
experiences
is incredible: you cant get that from a book: j.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 12:07:16 MST/MDT
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "j."
<NIEL1000@BADGER.SNOW.EDU>
Subject: the last time i committed suicide
you
absolutely must see this film: j.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 14:27:00 PST
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "Ottis L. Murray"
<OLM@MAIL.LRCOG.DST.NC.US>
unscribe
beat-l
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 15:13:50 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Jack Kerouac reading: More titles
Mime-Version:
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Patrick
L. Fermor - MANI
Lekachman
- The Age of Keyes
Fred
Hoffman - Marginal Manners
Federico
Garcia Lorca
Agatha
Christie
H.D.F.
Kitto
Plutarch's
Lines
Christopher
Marlowe
Lenny
Bruce
These are all documented as being read or,
at least perused by Jack
Kerouac
at one time or another...we do know that Kerouac criticized Lenny
Bruce
for "hating everything."
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 14:36:36 -0600
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Jeff Taylor
<taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Great American Novel
In-Reply-To:
<msg1205197.thr-f120c4ac.55d4a82@umit.maine.edu>
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On Tue,
11 Nov 1997, Tyson Ouellette wrote:
> music is a powerful entity in itself,
it's healing, it sings the
>
rhythyms of the soul, very spiritual,
whether it's mozart or
>
metallica. now when tou combine words
and music, the words it seems
>
have a free ride to your subconscious. how
much easier it is to
>
reiterate a song than words alone, preserving timing, etc. because it
>
takes a different path to whatever regions of your mind it goes to,
>
maybe it penetrates further tht way. i
find the same for music
>
enhanced by words, music alone doesn't get in there as quickly and
>
strongly as music with words.
What I
was really wondering was if the rhythm, tempo (all the musical
elements,
etc.) are something more than just an efficient delivery system,
but
actually, really and truly, and independently of any merely personal
and
subjectve psychology, add to the meaning of a literary work. I think
it's
pretty obvious that it does, but how exactly, and what is the precise
nature
of this addition? I want something more than psychology here.
But
what could this "more" be?--
> that was part of the reason i mentioned
> a
progression in literature that combines prose, poetry, music... i
>
think we'll have to incorporate the visual arts also, again, not merely
> an
illustrated book, but more fully melded.
Isn't
this what opera was supposed to accomplish? It was supposed to be
the
Consummate Art precisely because it united words, music, visual arts
(the
scene design & costumes), and I suppose you could also integrate
dance
into it if you wanted. But so many people find opera intolerable!
Maybe
there's such a thing as trying to include too much and ending up
with a
clumsy dinosaur.
*******
Jeff
Taylor
taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
*******
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 15:31:33 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Mark Schoeck
<Ireneaus13@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: star wars and Kerouac?
for
some strange reason i think i agree. that could just be on account of
fanatacism
for the the two. mark.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 15:32:25 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Mark Schoeck
<Ireneaus13@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: the last time i committed suicide
i
caught it on cinamax a few months ago, amazing.
mark.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 16:01:02 -0600
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Matthew S Sackmann
<msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>
Subject: Re: star wars and Kerouac?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.91.971113135444.18729A-100000@turbo.kean.edu>
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On Thu,
13 Nov 1997, PoOka(the friendly ghost) wrote:
>
its a shame that Kerouac didn't live to see star wars. Before you all
>
accuse me of being shallow, think about this: star wars is an epic film of
>
imagination, a modern myth using ideas from classic literature. There's a
>
book out right now that compares the star wars genre to myth. Would the
>
beats "dig" such cinematic attempts?
> jason
>
YES YES
YES!!
The
Beats would have LOVED Star Wars!
What's
this book that you speak of? i know
Joseph Campbell speaks of Star
Wars a
lot in his books, but is this a new one?
Any one
know what the guys that lived to see Star Wars think about it?
-matt
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 15:00:04 MST/MDT
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "summer s. eve"
<NIEL1000@BADGER.SNOW.EDU>
Subject: Re: the last time i committed suicide
Date
sent: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 15:32:25
-0500
Send
reply to: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Schoeck
<Ireneaus13@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: the last time i committed suicide
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i
caught it on cinamax a few months ago, amazing.
mark.
what
did you think?: i absolutely loved it: j.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 15:01:54 MST/MDT
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "summer s. eve"
<NIEL1000@BADGER.SNOW.EDU>
Subject: Re: star wars and Kerouac?
Date
sent: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 15:31:33
-0500
Send
reply to: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Schoeck
<Ireneaus13@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: star wars and Kerouac?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
for
some strange reason i think i agree. that could just be on account of
fanatacism
for the the two. mark.
the
beats defined their generation and in a sense star wars did the
same:
j.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 16:53:38 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Meghan Langley
<PnkAngora@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: the last time i committed suicide
I
agree, the film was quite good. I was
hesitant to see it at first, because
I
generally don't like screen adaptations.
However, with this movie, their
was
nothing in the portrayal of Neal that conflicted with any of the
images\impressions I had aleady formed from literature or
otherwise. Good
flick.
-meghan
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 17:08:53 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Glenn Cooper
<coopergw@MPX.COM.AU>
Subject: Hubert Selby
In-Reply-To:
<971111213144_1670290632@mrin53.mail.aol.com>
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aAt
21:31 11/11/97 -0500, you wrote:
>In
a message dated 97-11-11 17:31:07 EST, you write:
>
><<
I think Selby is incredibly under-appreciated. I think he's a master. >>
>Hubert
Selby is a monster writer and should be discussed on this list more
>often. I heartily agree with your selections,
Glenn, but I'm curious as to
>why
you left off Last Exit to Brooklyn.
Isn't it as least as good as The
>Demon
and The Room?
>
Well,
oddly enough, "Last Exit" is the only Selby book I *don't* have! Just
haven't
gotten around to buying it. Probably because it's the most popular.
I have
a thing going on in my head that censors anything that reaches mass
popularity.
I've seen the movie, though!
"The
Room" and "The Demon" are every bit as horrific as "Naked
Lunch", and
in many
ways go even further in their attempts to portray human depravity,
and the
evil inherent in all of us.
To
anyone who hasn't read Selby, I can't recommend him highly enough. I
have a
blurb somewhere from Ginsberg, where he calls Selby "the most
important
innovator since Burroughs".
Glenn
C.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 23:15:36 +0100
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Cecco Angiolieri an Ancient Beat.
In-Reply-To: <199711121757.JAA20874@hsc.usc.edu>
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cari
amici,
Cecco
Angiolieri born in Siena (near Florence) in 1260,
was an
italian poet, he was involved in brawls and
lawsuit
for don't do the military service. He was a
friend
to Dante Alighieri.
His
feeling is't picaresque but a mix of spleen and joy,
Lawrence
Ferlighetti appreciates Angiolieri's poetry.
Now i
post a poem by Cecco Angiolieri dated at end of the 1200s'
* *
* * *
* * *
* *
La mia malinconia by Cecco Angiolieri
La mia malinconia e' tanta e tale,
ch'e' non discredo che, s'egli 'l
sapesse
un che mi fosse nemico mortale,
che di me di pietade non piangesse
Quella, per cu' m'avven, poco ne cale;
che mi parebbe, sed ella volesse
guarir'n un punto di tutto tutto 'l
mie male
sed ella pur: - I' t'odio - mi dicesse
Ma quest'e' la risposta c'ho da lei;
e ched'i vad'a far li fatti miei;
ch'ella non cura s'i' ho gi'oi' o pene
men ch'una paglia che le va tra' piei:
mal grado h'abbi Amor, ch'a le' mi
diene.
* *
* * *
* * *
* *
un
saluto a tutti,
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 17:21:51 +0000
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: 1st & last response to Grant's
attempt to start a flame war.
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x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
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ARRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH
AAAAAAARRRRRRRRAAAEEEEEEEEEEEGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH
w
i
l
l
t'
h
i
s
e
v
e
r
s
t
o
p????????????????????????????????????????????????????
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 16:32:21 -0600
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: 1st & last response to Grant's
attempt to start a flame war.
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Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
>
ARRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH
>
AAAAAAARRRRRRRRAAAEEEEEEEEEEEGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH
> w
> i
> l
> l
>
> t'
> h
> i
> s
>
> e
> v
> e
> r
> s
> t
> o
>
p????????????????????????????????????????????????????
i think
it probably will.
optimistically,
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
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Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 17:01:24 -0600
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From: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: GAN
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Many
years ago I stumbled across a wonderful American novel, _The
Anointed_,
by Clyde Brion Davis (1937). It starts:
Once I was sitting on a bench in
Boston Common and a crazy man
came
down the path from that Civil War memorial. He was an old man about
fifty
or sixty and the lapels of his coat were covered with celluloid
buttons
that said, "O, You Kid," "Keep Cool With Coolidge,"
"Cow Brand
Soda,"
"The Jolly Chums Club," and things like that.
This crazy man came over to my bench
in the shade and sat down.
Pretty
soon he looked over at me and began to laugh. He laughed and
laughed.
I said to him, "Mister, what in hell are you laughing
at?"
And he stopped laughing a little and
wiped his eyes on a blue
bandanna
handkerchief, and said, "I am laughing at you and Boston and the
world.
God and I are laughing."
I read
this opening and I was hooked.
"But,"
you ask, "what has all this to do with the materials on this list?"
Well,
the author, Clyde Brion Davis, pre-empted one of the threads of
recent
discussion on this list: Davis's second novel, published in 1938,
was
titled _The Great American Novel_!
Cordially,
Michael
Skau
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Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 18:32:29 -0500
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From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: star wars and Kerouac?
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Well,
you do know that Lucas hired Joseph Campbell as a consultant on the
first
film and while he was developing the idea for the series as he
wanted
the saga to have a mythic quality to it, which, I would lay, is the
main
empatis (sp?) behind the popularity and perpetuity of the films.
------------------
Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
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Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 17:45:35 -0600
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: star wars and Kerouac?
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Alex
Howard wrote:
>
>
Well, you do know that Lucas hired Joseph Campbell as a consultant on the
>
first film and while he was developing the idea for the series as he
>
wanted the saga to have a mythic quality to it, which, I would lay, is the
>
main empatis (sp?) behind the popularity and perpetuity of the films.
>
>
------------------
>
Alex Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
>
kh14586@am.appstate.edu
P.O. Box 12149
>
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
i
finally broke down and watched them the summer before last after so
many
years of hearing about the Campbell connection (ending my quest to
be the
only living American that hadn't seen them <smile>).
perhaps
i need to see them again. my first
impression was that Joseph
Campbell's
spin on them the Bill Moyer's videos is better than the
movies
themselves.
horribly
un-American,
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
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Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 19:05:27 -0500
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From: Eric Craig Sapp
<ecs4m@SERVER1.MAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cecco Angiolieri an Ancient Beat.
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hi
rinaldo,
could
you maybe post an english translation of this poem.
from,
Eric
On Thu,
13 Nov 1997 23:15:36 +0100 Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
wrote:
>
cari amici,
>
Cecco Angiolieri born in Siena (near Florence) in 1260,
>
was an italian poet, he was involved in brawls and
>
lawsuit for don't do the military service. He was a
>
friend to Dante Alighieri.
>
His feeling is't picaresque but a mix of spleen and joy,
>
Lawrence Ferlighetti appreciates Angiolieri's poetry.
>
>
Now i post a poem by Cecco Angiolieri dated at end of the 1200s'
>
>
* * * * *
* * * * *
> La mia malinconia by Cecco Angiolieri
>
> La mia malinconia e' tanta e tale,
> ch'e' non discredo che, s'egli 'l
sapesse
> un che mi fosse nemico mortale,
> che di me di pietade non piangesse
>
> Quella, per cu' m'avven, poco ne
cale;
> che mi parebbe, sed ella volesse
> guarir'n un punto di tutto tutto 'l
mie male
> sed ella pur: - I' t'odio - mi
dicesse
>
> Ma quest'e' la risposta c'ho da lei;
> e ched'i vad'a far li fatti miei;
> ch'ella non cura s'i' ho gi'oi' o
pene
> men ch'una paglia che le va tra'
piei:
> mal grado h'abbi Amor, ch'a le' mi
diene.
>
>
* * * * *
* * *
* *
>
> un
saluto a tutti,
>
Rinaldo.