=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 20:37:22 -0800

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: method and meaning

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Mike,

 

You are usually right on these things, but I am dissapointed that you

didn't like "Absolom".  Yes it is repetitive, the point being to listen

to the different way each character sees the same story.  Admittedly the

plot does not race.  But if you like the way Faulkner's language flows

it's like sipping bourbon.  If you don't it would be hard going.  I

found the repetiveness had a nice effect, rather like the familiar

epithets you get in Homer.  But then I've got to admit to having a real

weakness for Faulkner--or having in the past--haven't read him in a long

time.

 

James Stauffer

 

Mike Rice wrote:

 

> >

> I read Absalom, Absalom and don't recall the entire plot being

> show in the first chapter.  I read the first 100 pages twice.

> It was a terrible book to read, with everyone rehashing the

> same stuff over and over, and then adding one more fact to the

> accumulated plot.

>

> Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 15 Nov 1997 04:38:20 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Shani St.John" <lawlaw1@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Nightmares

 

Jail of concrete,

padded walls,

mattresses rotten with sweat of tears

and years of neglect.

a lonely toilet bowl sulks quietly in the corner

waiting for drops of piss,

a shock of yellow in the porcelain hole.

inside I hear the clank of bars,

the rattle of chains,

the sound of locks without keys.

I see the pacing and gesturing frustration

of a man without a face, without a soul.

 

The crying in the night.

the wailing, moaning of men

who feel no remorse.

the cacophonic quarrel of voices long gone,

bed long empty,

sinks unwashed.

And stinking cells,

unbarred,

with doors agape,

like dumb mouths, wide (aghast) with pity   surprise   disgust

And I quake

And I can't breathe in here,

mommy.

don't shut me in

can't see in the dark

and the clank of chains

the viscious monotony of whisperers

plotting, plotting

of death

and the plodding plodding thunderous footsteps

and the greasy, wet, stale, breath

of tombs. . . .

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 20:47:14 -0800

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: James Laughlin, Dead at 83

MIME-Version: 1.0

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I would hate to think of what it might have been like to have all those

wonderful New Directions books.  "Nude Erections" as Ezra Pound called

it.

 

James Stauffer

 

Judith Campbell wrote:

>

> James Laughlin, Poet and  Publisher, Dead at 83

>

> Associated Press 14-NOV-97

>

> NORFOLK, Conn. (AP) James Laughlin, a poet and pioneering publisher who

> introduced American readers to some of the best-known writers of this

> century, died Wednesday of complications following a stroke. He was 83.

>

> Laughlin died at his home, his family said. He was still an undergraduate

> at Harvard University in 1936 when he founded New Directions with money

> from his father and issued the first of the anthologies that he said were a

> place "where experimentalists could test their inventions by publication."

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 15 Nov 1997 00:38:19 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Glenn Cooper <coopergw@MPX.COM.AU>

Subject:      Re: Greatest Novels ...

In-Reply-To:  <199711142346.RAA26823@mail.execpc.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 17:41 14/11/97 -0600, you wrote:

>Mike Rice wrote:

>

>> Did Selby have other books besides Last Exit?  I read this one just a few

>> years ago and thought there was more understanding of sexuality in all

>its

>> disguises, in the book, than in any other I have read before or since.

>It

>> has an understanding of homosexuality in it that I have not seen equaled

>> in any other novel, since.

>

>This summer I picked up a Quality Paperback Book Club three-for-one edition

>of Selby's "Last Exit...," "The Room," and "Requiem For A Dream."  Up until

>I got this book, I had only been aware of "Last Exit" as well.  What a

>powerful writer indeed.  Selby writes in his introduction that he is

>concerned with what happens when people lose control over themselves and/or

>their situation...when that happens, he paints horrifying, grim portraits

>of life being sucked down an irresistible vortex.  Not light reading for a

>sunny summer's day, by any means, but meaty, gutsy, honest stuff.

>

>Jym

>

He's had problems with distribution in the past. A lot of stuff was out of

print, I think, for quite a while. But now Henry Rollins is distributing

his stuff thru his 2.13.61 label Selby's books are much easier to get a

hold of. I have a signed copy of "The Room".

 

Glenn C.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 23:50:46 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: christmas

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Well

to address joan and such, there are many things of interest, but to be

honest i am not interested in rehashing "that'' event.  i would be much

more interested in finding out more about her, her life and her life

with william and others.  I first really heard joan stories from evie K

in a motel room in lawrence from one oclock to I bet 3:30. (the ramada

inn at 6th and iowa) during the reunion. She needed some extra carry on

luggage so i ran some sample to her.  I sold her two peices, for a buck

each.  She also discussed joan, who was her friend and roomate in this

little chap book that i have several copies of. It was a glimpse of an

interesting woman. Evie was also interesting, a little sad, is a

justified remark. i have always felt that jack marrying evie was

protrayed on this list as too much of a marraige of convenience and not

as a true marriage, convenient it might of been but i also think,

(without any thing but from meeting her and hearing an occasional story

from william) that it was a very real relationship.

 I was cleaning house for william when he wrote the preface to Queer, it

was a terrible hard time for him.  he suffered greatly writing it. One

day He read some of it to me , and when i lay weeping on the couch, left

the manuscript for me to finish while he puttered feeding the cats.

James came over, and one of those signifigant looks passsed between

william and james.  I felt that i had just experiance something so raw

and bare, i felt that this is what it means to write, it is to SEE.

that a lot of why i think of william as a genius is not just the command

of language, it is the the ability to go to the bone. I got married and

had lena, and there were moments when william would talk of his

marriage, and child and never was it more than a brief remark.  Once

when we were driving along, william was handing lena her bottle and at

one point she went nick nick nick and kind of threw it at him, he said

that she was done. then said some story about bill jr and bottles, a

glancing remark. I would just sit and be quiet, which by the way, i

never am quiet, i usually sit and say something, a bit off( like old

fish) at those funny moments.  William was a very caring and tender

person.  One day he handed me a set of towels that he explained had been

joans. that i should take them.

 

Ted morgan, to be frank i didn't like him.  I found him to be one of

these guys that would kind of  lie by retricence or fabricate by

twisting the truth. at no point when i was speaking to him did i feel

that he was speaking to me or looking at me. it was he was posing.  I

turned the invisible women around him and i am sure by mutual consent.

He probably didn't notice me.  This description of my imppression of him

as a spook is a little blunt but i am not the scholar to address his

book, it probably would be adequate for finding sources or as one way of

looking at differenct parts of a story but from the things i was

familiar with, ted looked with jaundice eye and freaky interpretations.

 

I read most of the western land in one long night and then onother.

falling asleep i  had a dream about the western lands that rocked me.

it was full color, dark blue roiling sky, turgid brown river and

william  striding across the field, south of the trees, with his stick,

yelling at me. there were animals crawling in the weeds, around us and

ahead of us, seen, unseen and part of some strange earth movement.  Here

sometimes the prairie blows and it feels like the geography is moving

through the air, rather than the air is moving through the weeds. i

think western lands is my favorite, and would make a fucking great play.

patricia

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 15 Nov 1997 02:30:03 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: the last time i committed suicide

 

Here's something I just found out about a few months ago that was quite

surprising to me.  I got a call from Jamie Cassady (Carolyn's daughter) on

our 1-800-KER-OUAC line asking if me and my wife and I wanted to come to the

SF premiere of LTICS.  We were unable to go due to scheduling conflict but I

thanked her for invting us.  She said she had to invite us as we were

instrumental in the film getting made!

 

I didn't know what she was talking about and she explained when we had

Carolyn in for a book signing back in 1994 one of the people who showed up

was the guy who eventually wound up making the film and he invited Carolyn

and Jamie and John Allen to a bar across the street from our store and

pitched them the idea that eventually became LTICS.

 

I saw the movie on video about two months ago and although I thought it had

some good parts I was disappointed in that I thought it was way too

disjointed at times. Now I realize that was the intent, of course and sure it

worked in the Cherry Mary letter but at times I don't believe it transferred

to film well. I thought some of the scenes went on way too long and even when

you thought the scene was over it would start up again and not be over!  I

did think Kennu stole the show!

 

BTW, I was told Carolyn wasn't thrilled with the film either. Her complaints

had more to do with historical accuracy however, like "Neal woud have never

worn those shoes" or "he wouldn't use those words".

 

Jerry Cimino

Fog City

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 15 Nov 1997 02:49:56 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Re: correction/not users, losers

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Bentz,

 

        I really, really liked this Bentz....very atmospheric. Part of my

teenage years I lived in Danbury, CT near the FCI, Federal Correctional

Institute. It had the rep of being a real playground / country club of a

place. Daniel Berrigan was there along with other prominent War resistors,

but mostly it was populated with guys with the greatest looking raw silk

suits you've ever seen. We had them at our church each Sunday parking cars!

A place of light and ease....not CCI.

 

        Antoine

 

                ********************

from Bentz Kirby

 

CCI

(For Leon and Joe, by an outsider)

 

Central Correctional Institute.

A granite fortress,

Mined on the Saluda River

By the inmates.

 

That was before THE war.

 

Death house.

Pee Wee Gaskins blew up Rudolph Tyner

And they made a tv movie of it.

Outside were baseball fields, basketball courts, and weights.

And row after row of barbed razor wire helix curving back

Until it reinvented itself.

Machine guns in the turrets.

Right on the Columbia canal.

 

In this cell block the ghosts howl,

And you do not have to strain to hear them.

 

Now, it is almost gone.  All but the granite.

First they made a park on the old canal.

Then Bell South built a building to house

Busy executives of this modern society.

So, they moved the prison, tore it down,

Will soon build condominiums.

Haunted by the rastafarian dreams,

by the death row marches,

by the electrocution of a teen age boy,

by Tyner turning on his radio,

by three time losers doing 25 with no parole.

 

It has been the home of noble spirits too,

But, alas, they do not haunt,

Or if they do, are drowned by banshee.

 

CCI,

Central Correctional Institute,

Maximum Security,

Not much correction.

Turn your head like you can forget.

In the night, they shall hear the voices.

 

--

 

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never

cease to be amused."

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 15 Nov 1997 02:54:08 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Nightmares

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Shani,

 

        Is this something you did a while ago or have been working on? or

was it inspired by Bentz's e-mail on CCI? I like this also - very vivid.

 

                Antoine

 

                ****************

 

from Shani St.John

Subject:      Nightmares

To:           BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

 

Jail of concrete,

padded walls,

mattresses rotten with sweat of tears

and years of neglect.

a lonely toilet bowl sulks quietly in the corner

waiting for drops of piss,

a shock of yellow in the porcelain hole.

inside I hear the clank of bars,

the rattle of chains,

the sound of locks without keys.

I see the pacing and gesturing frustration

of a man without a face, without a soul.

 

The crying in the night.

the wailing, moaning of men

who feel no remorse.

the cacophonic quarrel of voices long gone,

bed long empty,

sinks unwashed.

And stinking cells,

unbarred,

with doors agape,

like dumb mouths, wide (aghast) with pity   surprise   disgust

And I quake

And I can't breathe in here,

mommy.

don't shut me in

can't see in the dark

and the clank of chains

the viscious monotony of whisperers

plotting, plotting

of death

and the plodding plodding thunderous footsteps

and the greasy, wet, stale, breath

of tombs. . . .

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never

cease to be amused."

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 01:19:40 -0800

Reply-To:     mrfrendly@earthlink.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Wes Griffiths <mrfrendly@EARTHLINK.NET>

Organization: Otto & Quinn's Snow Delivery

Subject:      Re: Beat and Kerouac books for sale

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

Attila Gyenis wrote:

>

> Hello,

>

> If you are interested in a short list of Kerouac and beat books for sale

> (most are collectible) please e mail me and I will send you the list.

>

> thanks

> Attila

would you mind sending me the list

thanks

--

++++Mo'tH. FrkQdL%;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

++++Wes Griffiths  (mrfrendly@earthlink.net);;;;;;;;;;;;;

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 15 Nov 1997 04:24:02 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>

Subject:      Re: James Laughlin, Dead at 83

In-Reply-To:  <346D2952.4B50@pacbell.net>

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Fri, 14 Nov 1997, James Stauffer wrote:

 

> I would hate to think of what it might have been like [not?] to have all

those

> wonderful New Directions books.  "Nude Erections" as Ezra Pound called

> it.

 

All Things Considered on NPR had a lengthy feature on Laughlin on Fri.

afternoon, incl. some snippets of Ezra Pound reading.

 

*******

Jeff Taylor

taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

*******

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 15 Nov 1997 07:25:48 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Subject:      Re: method and meaning

Comments: To: stauffer@pacbell.net

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

James Stauffer wrote:

 

> Mike,

>

> You are usually right on these things, but I am dissapointed that you

> didn't like "Absolom".  Yes it is repetitive, the point being to listen

> to the different way each character sees the same story.  Admittedly the

> plot does not race.  But if you like the way Faulkner's language flows

> it's like sipping bourbon.  If you don't it would be hard going.  I

> found the repetiveness had a nice effect, rather like the familiar

> epithets you get in Homer.  But then I've got to admit to having a real

> weakness for Faulkner--or having in the past--haven't read him in a long

> time.

>

> James Stauffer

 

James:

 

I forget the exact name, but I remember well the first time I really read a

Faulkner work.  (Was it Clear Light in August?)  His poetic use of language

in the novel form was a true joy to read.  I never became a "fan" like I did

of Wolfe and Kerouac, but he truly is a great writer.  I have never read

Absalom though.  But the way you describe it, the book seems like it would

have some very realistic points.  That is, how does the story differ when

seen through different eyes.  That sounds like realism and an ambitious

project.  I may just have to go to the library!

 

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 15 Nov 1997 07:22:55 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: christmas

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

patricia we are so very lucky to have you here among us. i  could "listen"

to you all day. my guess that the heart of the shooting was found in the

preface to queer is validated here, and then so enriched by your and wsb's

humanity.

thankyou

mc

 

Patricia Elliott wrote:

 

> Well

> to address joan and such, there are many things of interest, but to be

> honest i am not interested in rehashing "that'' event.  i would be much

> more interested in finding out more about her, her life and her life

> with william and others.  I first really heard joan stories from evie K

> in a motel room in lawrence from one oclock to I bet 3:30. (the ramada

> inn at 6th and iowa) during the reunion. She needed some extra carry on

> luggage so i ran some sample to her.  I sold her two peices, for a buck

> each.  She also discussed joan, who was her friend and roomate in this

> little chap book that i have several copies of. It was a glimpse of an

> interesting woman. Evie was also interesting, a little sad, is a

> justified remark. i have always felt that jack marrying evie was

> protrayed on this list as too much of a marraige of convenience and not

> as a true marriage, convenient it might of been but i also think,

> (without any thing but from meeting her and hearing an occasional story

> from william) that it was a very real relationship.

>  I was cleaning house for william when he wrote the preface to Queer, it

> was a terrible hard time for him.  he suffered greatly writing it. One

> day He read some of it to me , and when i lay weeping on the couch, left

> the manuscript for me to finish while he puttered feeding the cats.

> James came over, and one of those signifigant looks passsed between

> william and james.  I felt that i had just experiance something so raw

> and bare, i felt that this is what it means to write, it is to SEE.

> that a lot of why i think of william as a genius is not just the command

> of language, it is the the ability to go to the bone. I got married and

> had lena, and there were moments when william would talk of his

> marriage, and child and never was it more than a brief remark.  Once

> when we were driving along, william was handing lena her bottle and at

> one point she went nick nick nick and kind of threw it at him, he said

> that she was done. then said some story about bill jr and bottles, a

> glancing remark. I would just sit and be quiet, which by the way, i

> never am quiet, i usually sit and say something, a bit off( like old

> fish) at those funny moments.  William was a very caring and tender

> person.  One day he handed me a set of towels that he explained had been

> joans. that i should take them.

>

> Ted morgan, to be frank i didn't like him.  I found him to be one of

> these guys that would kind of  lie by retricence or fabricate by

> twisting the truth. at no point when i was speaking to him did i feel

> that he was speaking to me or looking at me. it was he was posing.  I

> turned the invisible women around him and i am sure by mutual consent.

> He probably didn't notice me.  This description of my imppression of him

> as a spook is a little blunt but i am not the scholar to address his

> book, it probably would be adequate for finding sources or as one way of

> looking at differenct parts of a story but from the things i was

> familiar with, ted looked with jaundice eye and freaky interpretations.

>

> I read most of the western land in one long night and then onother.

> falling asleep i  had a dream about the western lands that rocked me.

> it was full color, dark blue roiling sky, turgid brown river and

> william  striding across the field, south of the trees, with his stick,

> yelling at me. there were animals crawling in the weeds, around us and

> ahead of us, seen, unseen and part of some strange earth movement.  Here

> sometimes the prairie blows and it feels like the geography is moving

> through the air, rather than the air is moving through the weeds. i

> think western lands is my favorite, and would make a fucking great play.

> patricia

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 15 Nov 1997 07:46:21 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: ron whitehead's poetry

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Ron Whitehead wrote:

 

> Constantly Risking Reality

>

> the reality principle is just another scam

> rationality on a stick is the real insane

>

> absurd flim flam what's too real is to

> deal with the new dogmad state religioned

>

> poetry police are moving in cornering

> trianglestrangling those free thinkers

>

> freedom fighters forcing them into

> neckties nooses uniforms for all

>

> schoolchildren their civil rights stop

> at the school door so we can protect

>

> them from the violence of the streets

> make them all the same which was

>

> the original intent of public education

> they're just a little behind on reaching

>

> their goals but the realists are getting

> ever closer to fulfilling their shopping

>

> mall cathedral unchristian coalition

> new age government dreamlife reality

>

> principle lie life lies is what they be

> selling shoveling sticking ramming

>

> our throats don't buy it don't buy

> their materialist the only reality is

>

> the material world truth don't drink

> their rationality juice keep falling

>

> keep failing into your subterranean

> serumed dream

>

> Ron Whitehead

> 10/07/97

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 15 Nov 1997 07:47:51 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      more whitehead poetry

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Ron Whitehead wrote:

 

> Tapping My Own Phone

>

> I'm going straight bought myself a flat top

> haircut so stiff I can carry a tray of martinis

>

> waiting on people someone to open up her

> purse and give me a tip cause I don't have

>

> a clue anymore as to what's going on but

> I do know that I'm one step ahead tapping

>

> my own phone to hear myself talking with

> people who used to be my friends listening

>

> so I can correct myself before they do and

> I've got a surveillance camera in my abandoned

>

> car across the street watching myself replaying

> the tape so I can see if I'm acting funny before

>

> they catch me doing something I shouldn't

> like yesterday I spotted myself walking too

>

> fast and I heard myself talking too loud yes

> I've got the deep fear paranoia anxiety despair

>

> and suicide blues but I'm making sure I don't

> do nothing else wrong cause I done screwed

>

> up so many times I cornered myself into a

> backstreet deadend alley of paranoia and every

>

> time I hear an airplane or helicopter or car

> door slam I know The Secret Service the FBI

>

> and the IRS Swat Teams have finally arrived

> cause I published a poem by the President of

>

> The United States of America without his

> fully conscious permission and I'm sure I

>

> haven't paid enough taxes cause I've got no

> income yet somehow I keep on doing things

>

> like eating every once in a while and paying

> a light bill or two but how do I do it they're

>

> gonna ask what's the source of your income

> and how come you don't come to see us

>

> anymore so yes I've become a little jumpy

> but I'm staying one step ahead tapping my

>

> own phone videotaping my every move

> watching myself day and night replaying

>

> the tapes cause I got a bad bad bad case

> of the deep fear paranoia anxiety despair

>

> and suicide blues

>

> Ron Whitehead

> 10/08/97

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 15 Nov 1997 08:32:10 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: christmas

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Patricia Elliott wrote:

>

  I felt that i had just experiance something so raw

> and bare, i felt that this is what it means to write, it is to SEE.

> that a lot of why i think of william as a genius is not just the command

> of language, it is the the ability to go to the bone.

> patricia

 

i really really liked these words.  i enjoyed the entire post as always

but these struck with such resonance.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 15 Nov 1997 16:25:41 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      i'm here.

In-Reply-To:  <346C55E9.2140@sunflower.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

cari amici,

if you point yr browser to

http://www.comune.venezia.it/citta.htm

you can exactly found in which venetian city area i'm living

it's marked in the map as

13 - S.Lorenzo-XXV Aprile

i dunno if this is any interst but i posted

and excuse me for the intrusion,

un saluti a tutti,

rinaldo.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 15 Nov 1997 16:18:22 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: CCI

 

Bentz, thanks for sharing this,  really grabs the heart.

ciao,  sherri

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of R. Bentz Kirby

Sent:   Friday, November 14, 1997 3:07 PM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        CCI

 

CCI

(For Leon and Joe, by an outsider)

 

Central Correctional Institute.

A granite fortress,

Mined on the Saluda River

By the inmates.

 

That was before THE war.

 

Death house.

Pee Wee Gaskins blew up Rudolph Tyner

And they made a tv movie of it.

Outside were baseball fields, basketball courts, and weights.

And row after row of barbed razor wire helix curving back

Until it reinvented itself.

Machine guns in the turrets.

Right on the Columbia canal.

 

In this cell block the ghosts howl,

And you do not have to strain to hear them.

 

Now, it is almost gone.  All but the granite.

First they made a park on the old canal.

Then Bell South built a building to house

Busy executives of this modern society.

So, they moved the prison, tore it down,

Will soon build condominiums.

Haunted by the rastafarian dreams,

by the death row marches,

by the electrocution of a teen age boy,

by Tyner turning on his radio,

by three time users doing 25 with no parole.

 

It has been the home of noble spirits too,

But, alas, they do not haunt,

Or if they do, are drowned by banshee.

 

CCI,

Central Correctional Institute,

Maximum Security,

Not much correction.

Turn your head like you can forget.

In the night, they shall hear the voices.

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 15 Nov 1997 16:20:54 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: ron whitehead's poetry

 

these are wonderful.  right in the center of the bull's-eye.  thanks for

posting Ron's poems Marie.

 

ciao, sherri

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Marie Countryman

Sent:   Friday, November 14, 1997 11:46 PM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Re: ron whitehead's poetry

 

Ron Whitehead wrote:

 

> Constantly Risking Reality

>

> the reality principle is just another scam

> rationality on a stick is the real insane

>

> absurd flim flam what's too real is to

> deal with the new dogmad state religioned

>

> poetry police are moving in cornering

> trianglestrangling those free thinkers

>

> freedom fighters forcing them into

> neckties nooses uniforms for all

>

> schoolchildren their civil rights stop

> at the school door so we can protect

>

> them from the violence of the streets

> make them all the same which was

>

> the original intent of public education

> they're just a little behind on reaching

>

> their goals but the realists are getting

> ever closer to fulfilling their shopping

>

> mall cathedral unchristian coalition

> new age government dreamlife reality

>

> principle lie life lies is what they be

> selling shoveling sticking ramming

>

> our throats don't buy it don't buy

> their materialist the only reality is

>

> the material world truth don't drink

> their rationality juice keep falling

>

> keep failing into your subterranean

> serumed dream

>

> Ron Whitehead

> 10/07/97

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 15 Nov 1997 09:34:41 -0800

Reply-To:     Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: CCI

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

A dedicated good Saturday morning to you dear Sherri

 

I mean from a dedicated me. Gee I don't know how you handle this. Never been

dedicated to before. Hey do you think Joe was there too? That would be too

much after all his we know the truth Paul, you are a convicted felon, so

nobody has to believe a word you say that he is trying to weedle out of.

Trashing it about like a fish caught in the net. Of  his own making yet. I

do believe that the not kidding ribbing is geting a hearing in the places

where it counts, no getting burned in flames juggling here.

 

Spent an evening with Q.R. yesterday. He cooked us a lovely dinner. I

brought Anne along because she needed to check and close her p.o.box and do

a couple of other chores. Ginger brought a lovely bottle of wine, even if

Fahrid her Afghanistani boyfriend was not there. You will love meeting them.

I will be back Tuesday evening when Q.R. reads at an Art caffee on 19th and

Guerero. I want to meet Jean who arranges readings and is the person who

knows everything that's going on in town. Seems like everything is booked up

till February in town. I especially would like marie to read at the

International Caffe. There is a question about the poet who is booked for

the first Friday in January, so I left a tape and a printout with him. It

might happen if the problem stays a problem. You wouldn't happen to know

about likely reading places?

 

I promised myself I was not going to add pressures to your overfilled time.

Was a good boy yesterday, but here I go again

 taking some warm greetings to you,  quickly then

 

Love and peace

leon

 

 

 

From: Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Saturday, November 15, 1997 8:36 AM

Subject: Re: CCI

 

 

>Bentz, thanks for sharing this,  really grabs the heart.

>ciao,  sherri

>

>----------

>From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of R. Bentz Kirby

>Sent:   Friday, November 14, 1997 3:07 PM

>To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>Subject:        CCI

>

>CCI

>(For Leon and Joe, by an outsider)

>

>Central Correctional Institute.

>A granite fortress,

>Mined on the Saluda River

>By the inmates.

>

>That was before THE war.

>

>Death house.

>Pee Wee Gaskins blew up Rudolph Tyner

>And they made a tv movie of it.

>Outside were baseball fields, basketball courts, and weights.

>And row after row of barbed razor wire helix curving back

>Until it reinvented itself.

>Machine guns in the turrets.

>Right on the Columbia canal.

>

>In this cell block the ghosts howl,

>And you do not have to strain to hear them.

>

>Now, it is almost gone.  All but the granite.

>First they made a park on the old canal.

>Then Bell South built a building to house

>Busy executives of this modern society.

>So, they moved the prison, tore it down,

>Will soon build condominiums.

>Haunted by the rastafarian dreams,

>by the death row marches,

>by the electrocution of a teen age boy,

>by Tyner turning on his radio,

>by three time users doing 25 with no parole.

>

>It has been the home of noble spirits too,

>But, alas, they do not haunt,

>Or if they do, are drowned by banshee.

>

>CCI,

>Central Correctional Institute,

>Maximum Security,

>Not much correction.

>Turn your head like you can forget.

>In the night, they shall hear the voices.

>--

>

>Peace,

>

>Bentz

>bocelts@scsn.net

>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

>.-

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 15 Nov 1997 10:05:40 -0800

Reply-To:     Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: correction/not users, losers

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Thanks Bentz,

 

Not quite hung over from last night, but waking up slowly, not too slow to

make this big booboo. I am really sorry for this one. Hope Joe doesn't take

offense. What' done is done though. I have to stay behind it. I didn't want

to say anything further in public about it.

 

So what's this? Was Joe in CCI too? I would bet against it from his thoughts

about the fear of badmouthing there. No way he could believe that if he had

been there in any of the three years that I spent there. No way the constant

badmouthing and challenging that was always going on there just appeared

like an island from nowhere just for those years only.

 

Thanks for the dedication Bentz. I appreciate the thoughts behind it and

will write you again after I read it with a clear mind

 

Love and Peace

leon

 

I will read this carefully after work today and will let you know what I

feel about it.

-----Original Message-----

From: R. Bentz Kirby <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Friday, November 14, 1997 7:35 PM

Subject: correction/not users, losers

 

 

>CCI

>(For Leon and Joe, by an outsider)

>

>Central Correctional Institute.

>A granite fortress,

>Mined on the Saluda River

>By the inmates.

>

>That was before THE war.

>

>Death house.

>Pee Wee Gaskins blew up Rudolph Tyner

>And they made a tv movie of it.

>Outside were baseball fields, basketball courts, and weights.

>And row after row of barbed razor wire helix curving back

>Until it reinvented itself.

>Machine guns in the turrets.

>Right on the Columbia canal.

>

>In this cell block the ghosts howl,

>And you do not have to strain to hear them.

>

>Now, it is almost gone.  All but the granite.

>First they made a park on the old canal.

>Then Bell South built a building to house

>Busy executives of this modern society.

>So, they moved the prison, tore it down,

>Will soon build condominiums.

>Haunted by the rastafarian dreams,

>by the death row marches,

>by the electrocution of a teen age boy,

>by Tyner turning on his radio,

>by three time losers doing 25 with no parole.

>

>It has been the home of noble spirits too,

>But, alas, they do not haunt,

>Or if they do, are drowned by banshee.

>

>CCI,

>Central Correctional Institute,

>Maximum Security,

>Not much correction.

>Turn your head like you can forget.

>In the night, they shall hear the voices.

>

>--

>

>Peace,

>

>Bentz

>bocelts@scsn.net

>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

>.-

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 15 Nov 1997 15:20:57 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Preston Whaley <paw8670@MAILER.FSU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: great american novel

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>I hated Ragtime because it seemed to read and drag like history.  It

>seemed portentous, and I was put off by that.  I read Loon Lake after

>that and like its aping of the style of Raymond Chandler, among others.

>I sort of gave up on Doctorow, but I haven't forgotten him.  He seems

>a master of other people's styles.

>

>Mike Rice

 

Amazing that we subscribe to the same list given divergence of opinion on

Ragtime.  I agree that it reads like history in that the book informs with

much (to me) fascinating context except minor omissions like giving names

to characters;  remember brother,father, mother?  Portentious ? yes, but so

is 20th century America, or did you mean pretentious? But really I think

the book contests the whole notion of history because of the problem of

the, as Burroughs put it, vested interest --  it's a sort of post-history,

but vibrates my strings.

 

Absolom Absolom was the first Faulkner I ever read.  Couldn't tell what the

fuck was going on. Bought the Cliffs Notes which clued me in on how to read

the portentious brilliant thing.

 

Hope we're not too far afield here for BeatL but still on the American

novel thread.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 15 Nov 1997 15:31:26 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: great american novel

In-Reply-To:  <v01540b00b093a0740cc8@[146.201.2.29]>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

I had to read Ragtime for a summer assignment and I liked it. I think

Doctorow has a gift for telling stories. Of course, Im biased because

he teaches at my school...

 

 

On Sat, 15 Nov 1997, Preston Whaley wrote:

 

> >I hated Ragtime because it seemed to read and drag like history.  It

> >seemed portentous, and I was put off by that.  I read Loon Lake after

> >that and like its aping of the style of Raymond Chandler, among others.

> >I sort of gave up on Doctorow, but I haven't forgotten him.  He seems

> >a master of other people's styles.

> >

> >Mike Rice

>

> Amazing that we subscribe to the same list given divergence of opinion on

> Ragtime.  I agree that it reads like history in that the book informs with

> much (to me) fascinating context except minor omissions like giving names

> to characters;  remember brother,father, mother?  Portentious ? yes, but so

> is 20th century America, or did you mean pretentious? But really I think

> the book contests the whole notion of history because of the problem of

> the, as Burroughs put it, vested interest --  it's a sort of post-history,

> but vibrates my strings.

>

> Absolom Absolom was the first Faulkner I ever read.  Couldn't tell what the

> fuck was going on. Bought the Cliffs Notes which clued me in on how to read

> the portentious brilliant thing.

>

> Hope we're not too far afield here for BeatL but still on the American

> novel thread.

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 15 Nov 1997 23:46:14 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      recently italian jack kerouac's novels covers.

In-Reply-To:  <346B9565.6EE7@midusa.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 15.48 12/11/97 -0500, Paul A. Maher Jr. wrote:

>At 08:15 PM 11/12/97 +0100, you wrote:

>>At 10.02 11/11/97 -0500, Paul wrote:

>>>Hi Rinaldo - your cover you sent me is now posted. It can be found at:

>>>

>>>  http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.html

>>>

>>>

>>>                     Thanks! Paul of TKQ...

>>da rinaldo.

>>from venice-mestre,italy

>>p.s. i've well downloaded the pic. it's works fine.

>>ciao.

>>

>>I am glad you like it...if you have others I will gladly post them in time.

>Thanks again, Paul...

>"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

>                                           Henry David Thoreau

>

Paul,

 

the new reprinted jack kerouac's works paperback series was out

(same italian translation of the 50s'/60's) since 1995 and have

photo covers are featured by Wim Wender

 

publisher:arnoldo mondadori

photos Art Director:Federico Luci

Graphic Designer:Riccardo Danesi

 

(jk's novel)______________.... title photo cover by Wim Wenders__

--------------------------.... ---------------------------------

Sulla Strada (On the Road).... Sun dries Las Vegas, New Mexico.

reprint 1995

 

Big Sur (Big Sur)............. Western World Near Four Corners,

                                                                        California.

reprint 1996

 

I Vagabondi del Dharma ....... Flammable Terlingua, Texas

(The Dharma Bums)

reprint 1994

 

Angeli di desolazione......... Always open, Needles, California.

(Desolation Angel)

reprint 1996

 

Visioni di Gerard............. Old Trapper's, San Fernando, California.

(Visions of Gerard)

reprint 1997

 

Il dottor Sax................. Union Ludlow, California.

(Doctor Sax)

reprint 1996

 

it would be beautiful compare the digitized covers of the present

with those of the past. please let me know if u likes the

project...

 

saluti da

Rinaldo.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 15 Nov 1997 23:11:31 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      memento of John Denver a month later.

In-Reply-To:  <199710150046.RAA11200@hsc.usc.edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 00.04 16/11/97 +0800,

jacqtang <jacqtang@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> wrote:

>Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

>>

>> hello,

>> please can someone post the "american pie"

>> lyric by johnny denver?

>> thanks,

>> rinaldo

>>

>> rasa@gpnet.it

>> venice-mestre,italy.

>

>Hello Rinaldo,

>

>I didn't realise it was recorded by John Denver? Other than Don McLean,

>I know only of The Brady Bunch doing a stupid version of it.

>

>You can find the lyrics at for parts 1 & 2 at

>http://www.summer.com.br/~pfilho/oldies_list/top/lyrics/american_pie.txt

>or the one that I've listed below from

>http://www.execpc.com/~suden/american_pie.html

>

>Enjoy......Jacq

>

>AMERICAN PIE

>============

>A long long time ago

>I can still remember how that music used to make me smile

>And I knew if I had my chance

>That I could make those people dance

>And maybe they'd be happy for a while.

>

>But February made me shiver

>With every paper I'd deliver

>Bad news on the doorstep

>I couldn't take one more step

>

>I can't remember if I cried

>When I read about his widowed bride

>But something touched me deep inside

>The day the music died

>

>So bye-bye, Miss American Pie

>Drove my chevy to the levee

>But the levee was dry

>And them good old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye

>Singin' this'll be the day that I die

>This'll be the day that I die

>

>Did you write the Book of Love

>And do you have faith in God above

>If the Bible tells you so

>Do you believe in rock 'n roll

>Can music save your mortal soul

>And can you teach me how to dance real slow

>

>Well, I know that you're in love with him

>'Cause I saw you dancin' in the gym

>You both kicked off your shoes

>Man, I dig those rhythm and blues

>

>I was a lonely teenage broncin' buck

>With a pink carnation and a pickup truck

>But I knew I was out of luck

>The day the music died

>

>I started singin'

>So bye-bye, Miss American Pie

>Drove my chevy to the levee

>But the levee was dry

>And them good old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye

>Singin' this'll be the day that I die

>This'll be the day that I die

>

>Now for ten years we've been on our own

>And moss grows fat on a rollin' stone

>But that's not how it used to be

>When the jester sang for the King and Queen

>In a coat he borrowed from James Dean

>And a voice that came from you and me

>

>Oh, and while the King was looking down

>The jester stole his thorny crown

>The courtroom was adjourned

>No verdict was returned

>And while Lennon read a book of Marx

>The quartet practiced in the park

>And we sang dirges in the dark

>The day the music died

>

>We were singing

>So bye-bye, Miss American Pie

>Drove my chevy to the levee

>But the levee was dry

>And them good old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye

>Singin' this'll be the day that I die

>This'll be the day that I die

>

>Helter Skelter in a summer swelter

>The Byrds flew off with a fallout shelter

>Eight miles high and falling fast

>It landed foul out on the grass

>The players tried for a forward pass

>With the jester on the sidelines in a cast

>

>Now the half-time air was sweet perfume

>While the Sergeants played a marching tune

>We all got up to dance

>Oh, but we never got the chance

>'Cause the players tried to take the field

>The marching band refused to yield

>Do you recall what was revealed

>The day the music died

>

>We started singing

>So bye-bye, Miss American Pie

>Drove my chevy to the levee

>But the levee was dry

>And them good old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye

>Singin' this'll be the day that I die

>This'll be the day that I die

>

>Oh, and there we were all in one place

>A generation Lost in Space

>With no time left to start again

>So come on, Jack be nimble, Jack be quick

>Jack Flash sat on a candlestick

>'Cause fire is the Devil's only friend

>

>Oh, and as I watched him on the stage

>My hands were clenched in fists of rage

>No angel born in hell

>Could break that Satan's spell

>And as the flames climbed high into the night

>To light the sacrifical rite

>I saw Satan laughing with delight

>The day the music died

>

>He was singing

>So bye-bye, Miss American Pie

>Drove my chevy to the levee

>But the levee was dry

>And them good old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye

>Singin' this'll be the day that I die

>This'll be the day that I die

>

>I met a girl who sang the blues

>And I asked her for some happy news

>But she just smiled and turned away

>I went down to the sacred store

>Where I'd heard the music years before

>But the man there said the music woudn't play

>

>And in the streets the children screamed

>The lovers cried, and the poets dreamed

>But not a word was spoken

>The church bells all were broken

>And the three men I admire most

>The Father, Son and the Holy Ghost

>They caught the last train for the coast

>The day the music died

>

>And they were singing

>So bye-bye, Miss American Pie

>Drove my chevy to the levee

>But the levee was dry

>And them good old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye

>Singin' this'll be the day that I die

>This'll be the day that I die

>

>They were singing bye-bye, Miss American Pie

>Drove my chevy to the levee

>But the levee was dry

>Them good old boys were drinking whiskey and rye

>Singin' this'll be the day that I die

>

 

*       **      **      **      **      **      **      **      **      *

Hello Jacq,

 

have a nice day, thanks for your very useful lyric info,

the sad news of johnny denver's death during an air fly accident,

was connected with similar death as Othis Redding (1967)

and Buddy Holly (2th february 1959).

 

in 1971 johnny denver dedicated

the "american pie" (written by don mclean) to buddy holly.

it was fated to happen the same accident to johnny...

 

the fragment is:

...

>But February made me shiver

>With every paper I'd deliver

>Bad news on the doorstep

>I couldn't take one more step

>

>I can't remember if I cried

>When I read about his widowed bride

>But something touched me deep inside

>The day the music died

...

 

Jacq again thanks

 

ciao,

rinaldo.

******************************************************

 

At 17.46 14/10/97 -0700, Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:

>At 08:17 PM 10/14/97 EDT, you wrote:

>>On Tue, 14 Oct 1997 19:51:18 EST THE ZET'S GOOD. said:

>>>Was John Denver Beat?

>>>

>>>                           --Dave B.

>>

>>

>>Well, he had a song called "Rocky Mountain High."  Does that count?

>>

>>

>

>If it does he's beat.

>

>He also had some song about he and his friends sitting around at night

>passing the pipe around.

>

>Weirdly weirdly John Denver was kind of beat.

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 15 Nov 1997 17:17:04 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: memento of John Denver a month later.

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

>

> At 00.04 16/11/97 +0800,

> jacqtang <jacqtang@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> wrote:

> >Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

> >>

> >> hello,

> >> please can someone post the "american pie"

> >> lyric by johnny denver?

> >> thanks,

> >> rinaldo

> >>

> >> rasa@gpnet.it

> >> venice-mestre,italy.

> >

> >Hello Rinaldo,

> >

> >I didn't realise it was recorded by John Denver? Other than Don McLean,

> >I know only of The Brady Bunch doing a stupid version of it.

> >

> >You can find the lyrics at for parts 1 & 2 at

>

> >Weirdly weirdly John Denver was kind of beat.

> >

> >

the one that gets me is his song "Leavin' On a Jet Plane".  I used to do

a rather twisted post-divorce version which included "when I come back

I'll hock(sp?) my wedding ring".  Playing it in Wichita a few weeks back

I had to shift gears and comletely rethink the song almost heading to

bardo or JD's western lands in reworking the interpretation.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 15 Nov 1997 23:59:09 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Shani St.John" <lawlaw1@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Nightmares

 

Thanks Antoine! I appreciate your comments.  It's a spontaneous poem that I

did recently after visiting the county jail.  I had never  been inside of a

cell before . . . I couldn't imagine being caged like that.  Anyway, because

of the experience, I started having all of these strange, horrible, dreams.

"Nightmares" is just an exploration of that.

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Antoine Maloney

Sent:   Saturday, November 15, 1997 2:54 AM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Re: Nightmares

 

Shani,

 

        Is this something you did a while ago or have been working on? or

was it inspired by Bentz's e-mail on CCI? I like this also - very vivid.

 

                Antoine

 

                ****************

 

from Shani St.John

Subject:      Nightmares

To:           BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

 

Jail of concrete,

padded walls,

mattresses rotten with sweat of tears

and years of neglect.

a lonely toilet bowl sulks quietly in the corner

waiting for drops of piss,

a shock of yellow in the porcelain hole.

inside I hear the clank of bars,

the rattle of chains,

the sound of locks without keys.

I see the pacing and gesturing frustration

of a man without a face, without a soul.

 

The crying in the night.

the wailing, moaning of men

who feel no remorse.

the cacophonic quarrel of voices long gone,

bed long empty,

sinks unwashed.

And stinking cells,

unbarred,

with doors agape,

like dumb mouths, wide (aghast) with pity   surprise   disgust

And I quake

And I can't breathe in here,

mommy.

don't shut me in

can't see in the dark

and the clank of chains

the viscious monotony of whisperers

plotting, plotting

of death

and the plodding plodding thunderous footsteps

and the greasy, wet, stale, breath

of tombs. . . .

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never

cease to be amused."

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 15 Nov 1997 19:55:11 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marlene Giraud <M84M79@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Anais Nin and AG

 

good evening all,

i was just reading an article on Anais Nin and it stated that she surrounded

herself with famous writers (now i know thats true) but listed among Henry

Miller (no big shocker) was Allen Ginsberg. Now, i've only dabbled in a few

of AN's diaries, but did she have a friendship with AG? i wasn't aware that

they'd even met. if anyone has any info. on this i'd really appreciate it.

actually, if you have any info on a relationship/friendship/meeting between

AN and any of the beats, i'd love it. thanks. take care,

~~Marlene

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 15 Nov 1997 20:21:12 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Subject:      Cosmic Threads

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

COSMIC THREADS

(Does anyone know?)

 

Beat

List,

Leon,

Joe,

Bentz,

Columbia,

South

Carolina,

CCI.

Inside,

Outside,

1950

1960

1970

1980

1990

Gone

Granite

Walls

Remain.

Thread

Touching

Three

Beat

List

Members.

CCI,

Bentz,

Joe,

Leon.

Cosmic

Thread.

Coincidence.

None.

 

--

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 15 Nov 1997 20:43:12 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Preston Whaley <paw8670@MAILER.FSU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: great american novel

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

I'm greeeeeeen with envy.  Did you take a class with him? Does he teach

writing or literature?

 

Preston

 

 

>I had to read Ragtime for a summer assignment and I liked it. I think

>Doctorow has a gift for telling stories. Of course, Im biased because

>he teaches at my school...

>

>

>On Sat, 15 Nov 1997, Preston Whaley wrote:

>

>> >I hated Ragtime because it seemed to read and drag like history.  It

>> >seemed portentous, and I was put off by that.  I read Loon Lake after

>> >that and like its aping of the style of Raymond Chandler, among others.

>> >I sort of gave up on Doctorow, but I haven't forgotten him.  He seems

>> >a master of other people's styles.

>> >

>> >Mike Rice

>>

>> Amazing that we subscribe to the same list given divergence of opinion on

>> Ragtime.  I agree that it reads like history in that the book informs with

>> much (to me) fascinating context except minor omissions like giving names

>> to characters;  remember brother,father, mother?  Portentious ? yes, but so

>> is 20th century America, or did you mean pretentious? But really I think

>> the book contests the whole notion of history because of the problem of

>> the, as Burroughs put it, vested interest --  it's a sort of post-history,

>> but vibrates my strings.

>>

>> Absolom Absolom was the first Faulkner I ever read.  Couldn't tell what the

>> fuck was going on. Bought the Cliffs Notes which clued me in on how to read

>> the portentious brilliant thing.

>>

>> Hope we're not too far afield here for BeatL but still on the American

>> novel thread.

>>

>

>The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

>Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 15 Nov 1997 20:57:45 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Preston Whaley <paw8670@MAILER.FSU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Anais Nin and AG

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>good evening all,

>i was just reading an article on Anais Nin and it stated that she surrounded

>herself with famous writers (now i know thats true) but listed among Henry

>Miller (no big shocker) was Allen Ginsberg. Now, i've only dabbled in a few

>of AN's diaries, but did she have a friendship with AG? i wasn't aware that

>they'd even met. if anyone has any info. on this i'd really appreciate it.

>actually, if you have any info on a relationship/friendship/meeting between

>AN and any of the beats, i'd love it. thanks. take care,

>~~Marlene

 

Shortly after Ginsberg read Howl at the 6 Gallery he read in LA through

Rexroth's L. Lipton connection.  Someone in the audience began heckling . .

. saying something like "c'mon, what are you trying to prove."  Ginsberg

challenged the guy by asking "what are you afraid of? Are you afraid of the

nakedness?"  Then he stripped.  Anais Nin was in the audience and laughed.

This is out of Miles' biography on G. and I think I've remembered the jewel

center, so to speak. Anyway,  that was probably when they became aquainted

for the first time.

 

Preston

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 11:58:20 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Andre Gauthier <agauthi@CCO.NET>

Subject:      Re: Ginsberg and Vonnegut

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding:  quoted-printable

 

If you write, draw, know jokes, take pictures, all shapes, sizes, =

colors, creeds, and sexual preferences, (you don't even have to be that =

good at it)  then submit them to my zine, 96 MILES TO PORTLAND. For more =

information e-mail me.

 

-----Original Message-----

From:   Maggie Gerrity [SMTP:u2ginsberg@YAHOO.COM]

Sent:   Tuesday, November 11, 1997 9:14 PM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Ginsberg and Vonnegut

 

  I'm working on this compilation of criticisms (historical,

biographical, and literary) and reviews of a group of Allen Ginsberg

poems for which I have to write a 3 page opening essay. The title of

my anthology is "Love, Death, and the Teachings of Allen Ginsberg."

Does anyone have any suggestions of what audience to target in this

intro? Scholars? Students? Fellow poets and/or Beat Lovers?

 

   [Janelle Gauthier]  target your paper to who you want reading it

Janelle=20

 

 

 

 

__________________________________________________________________

Sent by Yahoo! Mail. Get your free e-mail at http://mail.yahoo.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 12:07:19 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Andre Gauthier <agauthi@CCO.NET>

Subject:      poetery reading

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding:  quoted-printable

 

If anyone is interested, and lives in the Olympia WA, New Century's =

annual poetry reading will be on the 24th, if you want to read something =

or go then e-mail me about it.

Janelle

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 11:52:06 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Andre Gauthier <agauthi@CCO.NET>

Subject:      Re: hooray for Vonnegut!

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding:  quoted-printable

 

If you write, draw, know jokes, take pictures, all shapes, sizes, =

colors, creeds, and sexual preferences, (you don't even have to be that =

good at it)  then submit them to my zine, 96 MILES TO PORTLAND. For more =

information e-mail me.

 

-----Original Message-----

From:   John Gregorio [SMTP:Subterr7@AOL.COM]

Sent:   Tuesday, November 11, 1997 8:17 PM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Re: hooray for Vonnegut!

 

For those who have read, and enjoyed, Vonnegut over the years it was a =

nice

"goodbye."  Yet, I would have preferred, and I think it would have been =

a

better book, if he would have written a book of essays or another type =

of

non-fiction.  Maybe an autobiography.

  Jack Gregorio

 

I thought it kinda was like an auto-bio was little bits of ficition =

thrown in.

Janelle

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 16 Nov 1997 01:29:37 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: great american novel

In-Reply-To:  <v01540b01b093f19c1dd5@[146.201.2.52]>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Unfortunately, the seminar he lead on Ragtime was during a class so i

couldnt go...

 

 

On Sat, 15 Nov 1997, Preston Whaley wrote:

 

> I'm greeeeeeen with envy.  Did you take a class with him? Does he teach

> writing or literature?

>

> Preston

>

>

> >I had to read Ragtime for a summer assignment and I liked it. I think

> >Doctorow has a gift for telling stories. Of course, Im biased because

> >he teaches at my school...

> >

> >

> >On Sat, 15 Nov 1997, Preston Whaley wrote:

> >

> >> >I hated Ragtime because it seemed to read and drag like history.  It

> >> >seemed portentous, and I was put off by that.  I read Loon Lake after

> >> >that and like its aping of the style of Raymond Chandler, among others.

> >> >I sort of gave up on Doctorow, but I haven't forgotten him.  He seems

> >> >a master of other people's styles.

> >> >

> >> >Mike Rice

> >>

> >> Amazing that we subscribe to the same list given divergence of opinion on

> >> Ragtime.  I agree that it reads like history in that the book informs with

> >> much (to me) fascinating context except minor omissions like giving names

> >> to characters;  remember brother,father, mother?  Portentious ? yes, but so

> >> is 20th century America, or did you mean pretentious? But really I think

> >> the book contests the whole notion of history because of the problem of

> >> the, as Burroughs put it, vested interest --  it's a sort of post-history,

> >> but vibrates my strings.

> >>

> >> Absolom Absolom was the first Faulkner I ever read.  Couldn't tell what the

> >> fuck was going on. Bought the Cliffs Notes which clued me in on how to read

> >> the portentious brilliant thing.

> >>

> >> Hope we're not too far afield here for BeatL but still on the American

> >> novel thread.

> >>

> >

> >The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

> >Sure-JK

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 16 Nov 1997 04:59:53 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Fwd: Jack Kerouac

 

In a message dated 97-11-14 12:27:01 EST, hal.marcovitz@mcall.com writes:

 

The attached message was sent to me and he needs help with finding a quote.

Hopefully someone within the group can help him out. enjoy

 

 

---------------------

Forwarded message:

From:   hal.marcovitz@mcall.com (Hal Marcovitz)

To:     gyenis@AOL.COM

Date: 97-11-14 12:27:01 EST

 

Hello, I'm a writer working on an op-ed piece for The Allentown Morning Call

on the 40th anniversary of the publication of "On the Road." I am

desperately searching for the quote in the book that sums up the beat

generation in one line. It reads something like "there is a new beat

generation. . ." Can you be of any help? Do you know where in the book I can

find it?

Thanks, Hal Marcovitz

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 16 Nov 1997 10:43:07 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Fwd: Jack Kerouac

In-Reply-To:  <971116045952_1704364756@mrin47>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Why not just read the book again? Its a quick read, at best.

 

 

 

On Sun, 16 Nov 1997, Attila Gyenis wrote:

 

> In a message dated 97-11-14 12:27:01 EST, hal.marcovitz@mcall.com writes:

>

> The attached message was sent to me and he needs help with finding a quote.

> Hopefully someone within the group can help him out. enjoy

>

>

> ---------------------

> Forwarded message:

> From:   hal.marcovitz@mcall.com (Hal Marcovitz)

> To:     gyenis@AOL.COM

> Date: 97-11-14 12:27:01 EST

>

> Hello, I'm a writer working on an op-ed piece for The Allentown Morning Call

> on the 40th anniversary of the publication of "On the Road." I am

> desperately searching for the quote in the book that sums up the beat

> generation in one line. It reads something like "there is a new beat

> generation. . ." Can you be of any help? Do you know where in the book I can

> find it?

> Thanks, Hal Marcovitz

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 16 Nov 1997 18:42:44 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      a question

Comments: cc: jjdorfner@aol.com

In-Reply-To:  <346C55E9.2140@sunflower.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>Return-Path: <jjdorfner@aol.com>

>Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 03:13:04 -0500

>Newsgroups: alt.books.beatgeneration

>To: "Rinaldo Rasa" <rasa@gpnet.it>

>From: jjdorfner@aol.com (Jjdorfner)

>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

>Subject: Re: updated12nov97BeatSupernova

>

>hey...what ever happened to Beat-L?

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 16 Nov 1997 14:21:40 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Jack Kerouac (fwd) Hallowed be your name. ..

In-Reply-To:  <199711121757.JAA20874@hsc.usc.edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

 B.D. says:

"

But naming, I admit, is no laughing matter. It is easy for me

to be supercilious about those who rechristen themselves, because

I have not had to find a new name. It must be an intolerable

burden to hate your name, which is like your body, mind,

personality, and family something issued to you at birth.

Of those essential ingredients, names are the easiest to change;

I am told by a lawyer friend that it costs about $150 and

three weeks to legally change your name, which is less than

it would cost to remake your body or engage a psychiatrist

to adjust your mental image. Interestingly, you can also

change your name to anything; there are no legal restrictions

on people labels, and you can, if you choose, name yourself

after fruit, household items, insects, crimes, types of wood,

machines, garments, or shoes.

 

 

And changing your name is a hallowed American tradition,

especially among scribblers. Nathanael West, Zane Grey, and

Mark Twain, to name a few, started over whole

(they were Nathan Weinstein, Pearl Grey, and Samuel Clemens, respectively),

and among those who have edited their names

are Willa Cather (born Wilella), Henry David Thoreau (born David Henry),

Jack Kerouac (born Jean-Louis), Walt Whitman (christened Walter),

and Nathaniel Hawthorne, who tossed a w in the Hathorne family name,

reportedly because he thought the extra consonant added a bit of upper

crust to the mix.

 

Renaming is remaking, of course.

Naming yourself confers autonomy, as well as the opportunity

to shuck your past and start again. It is a creation.

"

found on the web site

http://www.catholic.org/liguori/reflect/ord11th.html

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 16 Nov 1997 10:13:45 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Kerouac

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Hi folks.

 

I got this message from someone looking at my web site where I have a bit

about the beat-l and how to sign up.

 

I don't know how to answer him but maybe some here do so I am forwarding

this to us all.

 

Feel free to answer this inquisitive soul about the going-ons of the

beat-l.  You would reply to palfrey@dircon.co.uk

 

 

 

>Date: Sun, 09 Nov 1997 16:21:22 +0000

>From: Parker <palfrey@dircon.co.uk>

>Reply-To: palfrey@dircon.co.uk

>MIME-Version: 1.0

>To: gallaher@hsc.usc.edu

>Subject: Kerouac

>

>So what's this discussion group about? I enjoy Kerouac's work and want

>to talk to others about the wonders that it is.

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 16 Nov 1997 14:50:16 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Skau <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>

Subject:      utne

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

The current (Nov.-Dec.) issue of the _Utne Reader_ has a feature focus on

"Beyond Hip." An article by Tom Frank entitled "Let Them Eat Lifestyle"

has a picture of the GAP ad with Kerouac (p. 44); the article briefly

refers to this ad and discusses the Volvo ad which quoted from _On the

Road_ (p. 45). On the back page, under a picture of Bob Denver as

TVBeatnik Maynard G. Krebs, the magazine includes the following passage

from Mailer's _Advertisements for Myself_: "the beatnik is more likely to

have a good mind than a good body."--I guess the athletic Kerouac and

Cassady wouldn't fit the pattern of the beatnik.

Cordially,

Mike Skau

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 16 Nov 1997 13:42:26 MST/MDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "summer s. eve" <NIEL1000@BADGER.SNOW.EDU>

 

does anyone own the city lights pocket poets anthology?: its an

excellent collection of 'the best of' the city lights publications:

it has everything you could ever want: its my bible:

 

it has bits and pieces by lawrence ferlinghetti, picasso, kerouac,

ginsberg, williams, prevert, and more.

 

if you dont own this book, run out and buy it imediately.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 16 Nov 1997 12:52:44 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Anne <gbarker@THEGRID.NET>

Subject:      Re: GAN

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Attila Gyenis wrote:.

>

> But the best book for me is

> Confederacy of Dunces by John Kennedy Toole.

> A#1

 

wow. Confederacy is my my favorite as well.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 16 Nov 1997 06:13:03 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: City Lights Pocket Poets Anthology

MIME-Version: 1.0

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> summer s. eve wrote:

>

> does anyone own the city lights pocket poets anthology?: its an

> excellent collection of 'the best of' the city lights publications:

> it has everything you could ever want: its my bible:

>

> it has bits and pieces by lawrence ferlinghetti, picasso, kerouac,

> ginsberg, williams, prevert, and more.

>

> if you dont own this book, run out and buy it imediately.

 

You're right, it is an excellent collection.  I was disappointed that

there was only one poem by Anne Waldman that didn't seen very good, and

two by Diane Di Prima.  There were four, however by Harold Norse (Bentz,

isn't this the poet you have been recommending?) and I thought the one

titled "Believing in the Absurd" was excellent.

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 16 Nov 1997 17:05:00 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: more whitehead poetry

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 07:47 AM 11/15/97 +0000, you wrote:

>Ron Whitehead wrote:

>

>> Tapping My Own Phone

>>

>> I'm going straight bought myself a flat top

>> haircut so stiff I can carry a tray of martinis

>>

>> waiting on people someone to open up her

>> purse and give me a tip cause I don't have

>>

>> a clue anymore as to what's going on but

>> I do know that I'm one step ahead tapping

>>

>> my own phone to hear myself talking with

>> people who used to be my friends listening

>>

>> so I can correct myself before they do and

>> I've got a surveillance camera in my abandoned

>>

>> car across the street watching myself replaying

>> the tape so I can see if I'm acting funny before

>>

>> they catch me doing something I shouldn't

>> like yesterday I spotted myself walking too

>>

>> fast and I heard myself talking too loud yes

>> I've got the deep fear paranoia anxiety despair

>>

>> and suicide blues but I'm making sure I don't

>> do nothing else wrong cause I done screwed

>>

>> up so many times I cornered myself into a

>> backstreet deadend alley of paranoia and every

>>

>> time I hear an airplane or helicopter or car

>> door slam I know The Secret Service the FBI

>>

>> and the IRS Swat Teams have finally arrived

>> cause I published a poem by the President of

>>

>> The United States of America without his

>> fully conscious permission and I'm sure I

>>

>> haven't paid enough taxes cause I've got no

>> income yet somehow I keep on doing things

>>

>> like eating every once in a while and paying

>> a light bill or two but how do I do it they're

>>

>> gonna ask what's the source of your income

>> and how come you don't come to see us

>>

>> anymore so yes I've become a little jumpy

>> but I'm staying one step ahead tapping my

>>

>> own phone videotaping my every move

>> watching myself day and night replaying

>>

>> the tapes cause I got a bad bad bad case

>> of the deep fear paranoia anxiety despair

>>

>> and suicide blues

>>

>> Ron Whitehead

>> 10/08/97

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 16 Nov 1997 17:05:06 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: more whitehead poetry

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

This is very good.  Who is Ron Whitehead?

 

Mike Rice

 

 

 

At 07:47 AM 11/15/97 +0000, you wrote:

>Ron Whitehead wrote:

>

>> Tapping My Own Phone

>>

>> I'm going straight bought myself a flat top

>> haircut so stiff I can carry a tray of martinis

>>

>> waiting on people someone to open up her

>> purse and give me a tip cause I don't have

>>

>> a clue anymore as to what's going on but

>> I do know that I'm one step ahead tapping

>>

>> my own phone to hear myself talking with

>> people who used to be my friends listening

>>

>> so I can correct myself before they do and

>> I've got a surveillance camera in my abandoned

>>

>> car across the street watching myself replaying

>> the tape so I can see if I'm acting funny before

>>

>> they catch me doing something I shouldn't

>> like yesterday I spotted myself walking too

>>

>> fast and I heard myself talking too loud yes

>> I've got the deep fear paranoia anxiety despair

>>

>> and suicide blues but I'm making sure I don't

>> do nothing else wrong cause I done screwed

>>

>> up so many times I cornered myself into a

>> backstreet deadend alley of paranoia and every

>>

>> time I hear an airplane or helicopter or car

>> door slam I know The Secret Service the FBI

>>

>> and the IRS Swat Teams have finally arrived

>> cause I published a poem by the President of

>>

>> The United States of America without his

>> fully conscious permission and I'm sure I

>>

>> haven't paid enough taxes cause I've got no

>> income yet somehow I keep on doing things

>>

>> like eating every once in a while and paying

>> a light bill or two but how do I do it they're

>>

>> gonna ask what's the source of your income

>> and how come you don't come to see us

>>

>> anymore so yes I've become a little jumpy

>> but I'm staying one step ahead tapping my

>>

>> own phone videotaping my every move

>> watching myself day and night replaying

>>

>> the tapes cause I got a bad bad bad case

>> of the deep fear paranoia anxiety despair

>>

>> and suicide blues

>>

>> Ron Whitehead

>> 10/08/97

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 16 Nov 1997 18:47:08 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: more whitehead poetry

In-Reply-To:  <1.5.4.16.19971116180018.19ff1696@mail.wi.centuryinter.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Jim Croce also had the paranoia blues, from knocking around NYC too

long...

Good poem

 

 

 

On Sun, 16 Nov 1997, Mike Rice wrote:

 

> At 07:47 AM 11/15/97 +0000, you wrote:

> >Ron Whitehead wrote:

> >

> >> Tapping My Own Phone

> >>

> >> I'm going straight bought myself a flat top

> >> haircut so stiff I can carry a tray of martinis

> >>

> >> waiting on people someone to open up her

> >> purse and give me a tip cause I don't have

> >>

> >> a clue anymore as to what's going on but

> >> I do know that I'm one step ahead tapping

> >>

> >> my own phone to hear myself talking with

> >> people who used to be my friends listening

> >>

> >> so I can correct myself before they do and

> >> I've got a surveillance camera in my abandoned

> >>

> >> car across the street watching myself replaying

> >> the tape so I can see if I'm acting funny before

> >>

> >> they catch me doing something I shouldn't

> >> like yesterday I spotted myself walking too

> >>

> >> fast and I heard myself talking too loud yes

> >> I've got the deep fear paranoia anxiety despair

> >>

> >> and suicide blues but I'm making sure I don't

> >> do nothing else wrong cause I done screwed

> >>

> >> up so many times I cornered myself into a

> >> backstreet deadend alley of paranoia and every

> >>

> >> time I hear an airplane or helicopter or car

> >> door slam I know The Secret Service the FBI

> >>

> >> and the IRS Swat Teams have finally arrived

> >> cause I published a poem by the President of

> >>

> >> The United States of America without his

> >> fully conscious permission and I'm sure I

> >>

> >> haven't paid enough taxes cause I've got no

> >> income yet somehow I keep on doing things

> >>

> >> like eating every once in a while and paying

> >> a light bill or two but how do I do it they're

> >>

> >> gonna ask what's the source of your income

> >> and how come you don't come to see us

> >>

> >> anymore so yes I've become a little jumpy

> >> but I'm staying one step ahead tapping my

> >>

> >> own phone videotaping my every move

> >> watching myself day and night replaying

> >>

> >> the tapes cause I got a bad bad bad case

> >> of the deep fear paranoia anxiety despair

> >>

> >> and suicide blues

> >>

> >> Ron Whitehead

> >> 10/08/97

> >

> >

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 16 Nov 1997 18:32:03 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Beat Generation in NY

 

I'm about half way through Bill Morgan's "The Beat Generation in New

York" and it's really a treat.  Follow in the footsteps of the Beat

Generation from the Columbia University to Times Square to Rockefeller

Center, Chelsea, Greenwich Village and the Lower East Side.  There's

even a tour for the Bronx, Queens, & Yonkers!    The lively anecdotes

and rare photos provide a thumb nail portarit of the history of the Beat

Generation in and round New York City.  Read the entries carefully and

be on the lookout for puns, many of which I've been told were contributed by th

e book's publisher, Lawrence Ferlinghetti.   If you're interested in the Beats

and planning a visit to New York, this guide is as essential as a METRO card.

And if you're planning to vist McSorley's Olde Ale House (page 117), give me a

call or email me.  Maybe we can have a drink together.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 16 Nov 1997 20:27:47 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: more whitehead poetry

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

uh, guys, could some one else field this one?

well, ok- mike, ron whitehead is a poet and promoter of numerous events,

last big do was the 25th anniversary party for HST's fear and loathing,

a true poet and frantic publisher of as many new talents as possible,

whitefield press, in l'ville,. any one else?

mc

 

Mike Rice wrote:

 

> This is very good.  Who is Ron Whitehead?

>

> Mike Rice

>

> At 07:47 AM 11/15/97 +0000, you wrote:

> >Ron Whitehead wrote:

> >

> >> Tapping My Own Phone

> >>

> >> I'm going straight bought myself a flat top

> >> haircut so stiff I can carry a tray of martinis

> >>

> >> waiting on people someone to open up her

> >> purse and give me a tip cause I don't have

> >>

> >> a clue anymore as to what's going on but

> >> I do know that I'm one step ahead tapping

> >>

> >> my own phone to hear myself talking with

> >> people who used to be my friends listening

> >>

> >> so I can correct myself before they do and

> >> I've got a surveillance camera in my abandoned

> >>

> >> car across the street watching myself replaying

> >> the tape so I can see if I'm acting funny before

> >>

> >> they catch me doing something I shouldn't

> >> like yesterday I spotted myself walking too

> >>

> >> fast and I heard myself talking too loud yes

> >> I've got the deep fear paranoia anxiety despair

> >>

> >> and suicide blues but I'm making sure I don't

> >> do nothing else wrong cause I done screwed

> >>

> >> up so many times I cornered myself into a

> >> backstreet deadend alley of paranoia and every

> >>

> >> time I hear an airplane or helicopter or car

> >> door slam I know The Secret Service the FBI

> >>

> >> and the IRS Swat Teams have finally arrived

> >> cause I published a poem by the President of

> >>

> >> The United States of America without his

> >> fully conscious permission and I'm sure I

> >>

> >> haven't paid enough taxes cause I've got no

> >> income yet somehow I keep on doing things

> >>

> >> like eating every once in a while and paying

> >> a light bill or two but how do I do it they're

> >>

> >> gonna ask what's the source of your income

> >> and how come you don't come to see us

> >>

> >> anymore so yes I've become a little jumpy

> >> but I'm staying one step ahead tapping my

> >>

> >> own phone videotaping my every move

> >> watching myself day and night replaying

> >>

> >> the tapes cause I got a bad bad bad case

> >> of the deep fear paranoia anxiety despair

> >>

> >> and suicide blues

> >>

> >> Ron Whitehead

> >> 10/08/97

> >

> >

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 16 Nov 1997 19:43:46 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Nightmares

In-Reply-To:  <UPMAIL14.199711150437240769@classic.msn.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Yipes!

 

Shani St.John,

 

I can't imagine that there are many people who have read more poetry by

prisoners and about prisons/asylums/"correctional institutions," etc. than

I have. For years poetic cries poured into the "office" of our underground

newspaper, the Prisoners Digest International (started out as the Penal

Digest International). Made many trips to publishers with anthologies that

wee always rejected.

 

Reading your poem I have to believe you have been very close to someone who

has done heavy time--if you haven't done so yourself.

 

An incredible poem I will share with many, many friends.

 

Thanks,

 

j grant

 

 

>Jail of concrete,

>padded walls,

>mattresses rotten with sweat of tears

>and years of neglect.

>a lonely toilet bowl sulks quietly in the corner

>waiting for drops of piss,

>a shock of yellow in the porcelain hole.

>inside I hear the clank of bars,

>the rattle of chains,

>the sound of locks without keys.

>I see the pacing and gesturing frustration

>of a man without a face, without a soul.

>

>The crying in the night.

>the wailing, moaning of men

>who feel no remorse.

>the cacophonic quarrel of voices long gone,

>bed long empty,

>sinks unwashed.

>And stinking cells,

>unbarred,

>with doors agape,

>like dumb mouths, wide (aghast) with pity   surprise   disgust

>And I quake

>And I can't breathe in here,

>mommy.

>don't shut me in

>can't see in the dark

>and the clank of chains

>the viscious monotony of whisperers

>plotting, plotting

>of death

>and the plodding plodding thunderous footsteps

>and the greasy, wet, stale, breath

>of tombs. . . .

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 16 Nov 1997 19:55:26 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>

Subject:      Re: more whitehead poetry

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Nancy Brodsky wrote:

 

> Jim Croce also had the paranoia blues, from knocking around NYC too

> long...

 

Are you sure you're not thinking of Paul Simon?  This is almost an exact

quote from a song on his first solo LP.

 

Jym

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 16 Nov 1997 21:13:13 -0800

Reply-To:     vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Adrien Begrand <vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>

Subject:      Some Of The Dharma in Salon

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

There's a well-written review of Some Of The Dharma in the Monday

edition of Salon...here's where to go:

 

http://www.salon1999.com/books/

 

Adrien

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 16 Nov 1997 22:23:08 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Subject:      X-Files

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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The X-Files episode tonight reminded me of the poem by Whitehead about

paranoia.  Thanks to MC for posting it.

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 16 Nov 1997 23:16:46 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Dennis Cardwell <DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Beat Generation in NY

 

Bill,

Is McSorley's as close to heaven as Joseph Mitchell makes it sound?  I've

been dying to visit (or permanently relocate) there since reading the essay.

 How could cruel fate plop me in California, so far from the barstool I

deserve?

Dennis

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 00:40:36 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Dawn B. Sova" <DawnDR@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: McSorley's

 

Does anyone else (besides me) remember when women were thrown out of

McSorley's??   Three smart-ass college girls --- freshmen,  no less

(Montclair State) --- in the winter of 1968.  It wasn't our age, because the

drinking age in NY was 18, even though it was 21 in NJ.  We went back a few

weeks later --- just for another forbidden try.

 

Dawn

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 16 Nov 1997 23:55:37 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: McSorley's

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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Dawn B. Sova wrote:

>

> Does anyone else (besides me) remember when women were thrown out of

> McSorley's??   Three smart-ass college girls --- freshmen,  no less

> (Montclair State) --- in the winter of 1968.  It wasn't our age, because the

> drinking age in NY was 18, even though it was 21 in NJ.  We went back a few

> weeks later --- just for another forbidden try.

>

> Dawn

 

It sounds like a pretty good story.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 02:34:08 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: GAN

 

Confederacy of Dunces was one of my all time faves too.

 

I read a book review in the Washington Post when it was first published in

the eighties and was intrigued with the story behind the story. For all you

would be authors out there, the guy who wrote it was so despondent over not

being able to get his book published after being rejected by a bunch of

publishing houses that he literally committed suicide.

 

His mother would up shopping the manuscript around to what I remember to be

like 100 publishers before somebody picked it up and the book would winning a

Pulitzer.  After hearing a story like that I had to read it and it was

terrific.

 

 

Jerry Cimino

Fog City

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 09:28:18 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: more whitehead poetry

In-Reply-To:  <199711170158.TAA03314@core0.mx.execpc.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

It was Jim Croce...the album is called "dont mess with jim" or something

like that....

 

 

On Sun, 16 Nov 1997, Jym Mooney wrote:

 

> Nancy Brodsky wrote:

>

> > Jim Croce also had the paranoia blues, from knocking around NYC too

> > long...

>

> Are you sure you're not thinking of Paul Simon?  This is almost an exact

> quote from a song on his first solo LP.

>

> Jym

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 10:53:52 -0500

Reply-To:     "eastwind@erols.com"@erols.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "D. Patrick Hornberger" <"eastwind@erols.com"@EROLS.COM>

Organization: EASTWIND PUBLISHING

Subject:      Re: McSorley's

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Dawn B. Sova wrote:

>

> Does anyone else (besides me) remember when women were thrown out of

> McSorley's??   Three smart-ass college girls --- freshmen,  no less

> (Montclair State) --- in the winter of 1968.  It wasn't our age, because the

> drinking age in NY was 18, even though it was 21 in NJ.  We went back a few

> weeks later --- just for another forbidden try.

>

> Dawn

 

 

When I weent to Cooper Union back in the 60's we hung out at

McSorleys---(cheap beer, dirty with character) men only at that

time--and as I recall the NY Times ran an article about it being one of

the last bars in US to hold out for MEN ONLY...as a matter of interest

this bar used to have its urinals right at the bar--so the legend

goes...I do recall seeing Corso in there one time and I assume other

NYbeats hit it on occassion. In Lower Manhattean the bar is famous and I

assume McSorleys beer now on the market is a rip off of the legend.

Patrick

eastwind@erols.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 09:54:56 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: McSorley's

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

D. Patrick Hornberger wrote:

>

> Dawn B. Sova wrote:

> >

> > Does anyone else (besides me) remember when women were thrown out of

> > McSorley's??   Three smart-ass college girls --- freshmen,  no less

> > (Montclair State) --- in the winter of 1968.  It wasn't our age, because the

> > drinking age in NY was 18, even though it was 21 in NJ.  We went back a few

> > weeks later --- just for another forbidden try.

> >

> > Dawn

>

> When I weent to Cooper Union back in the 60's we hung out at

> McSorleys---(cheap beer, dirty with character) men only at that

> time--and as I recall the NY Times ran an article about it being one of

> the last bars in US to hold out for MEN ONLY...as a matter of interest

> this bar used to have its urinals right at the bar--so the legend

> goes...I do recall seeing Corso in there one time and I assume other

> NYbeats hit it on occassion. In Lower Manhattean the bar is famous and I

> assume McSorleys beer now on the market is a rip off of the legend.

> Patrick

> eastwind@erols.com

 

Awhile back i mentioned a book i'd picked up in Wichita from Charlie

Plymell's friend Pat O'Connor titled "Tales from A Blackout".  I

finished it awhile ago -- and it is really interesting to think of a

legend of a tavern or bar and the connection of various events in the

Wichita Vortex all running through to some degree this common place.  I

had the feeling at times of a fly on the wall kind of feeling.

 

I imagine that McSorley's and many of the other spots in the guide Bill

Gargan posted about have wonderful legends (as opposed to histories) as

well -- and wonder if anyone will brave the keyboards and attempt to

provide the folklore of these places.

 

It seems that The Legend of a Place is a wonderful way of connecting

various stories -- perhaps the converse of The Legends of the Road but

only in the lack of perpetual motion.  The Road or McSorley's tell the

stories themselves.

 

Hope that such things get considered.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 10:41:56 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Seuss as Beat Technical Writer

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.OSF.3.95.971117092652.20920C-100000@is8.nyu.edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

 The following sent to me from fellow in Iowa City who has no idea where it

originated. Thought the list might find it entertaining.

j grant

 

 

 WHAT IF DR. SEUSS DID TECHNICAL WRITING?

 

If a packet hits a pocket on a socket on a port,

and the bus is interrupted as a very last resort,

and the address of the memory makes your floppy disk abort,

then the socket packet pocket has an error to report.

 

If your cursor finds a menu item followed by a dash,

and the double-clicking icon puts your window in the trash,

and your data is corrupted 'cause the index doesn't hash,

then your situation's hopeless and your system's gonna crash!

 

If the label on the cable on the table at your house,

says the network is connected to the button on your mouse,

but your packets want to tunnel on another protocol,

that's repeatedly rejected by the printer down the hall,

and your screen is all distorted by the side effects of gauss,

so your icons in the window are as wavy as a souse,

then you may as well reboot and go out with a bang,

'cause as sure as I'm a poet, the suckers gonna hang!

 

When the copy of your floppy's getting sloppy on the disk,

and the microcode instructions cause unnecessary risk,

then you have to flash your memory and you'll want to RAM your ROM.

Quickly turn off the computer and be sure to tell your mom.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 12:39:12 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Kerouac's Reading

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

 While doing my research, I ran across this notebook entry of Kerouac's from

September 1951. This explains more of how Kerouac viewed himself as a writer.

He writes: "I'm going to be a Wolfean Proust, a Whitmanesque Dostoevsky, a

Melvillean Celine, a Faulknerian Genet - in fact a Kerouassadian Ginsbergian

Shakespeare."

  An irony is, that Ginsberg influenced Kerouac in his writing while

Ginsberg himself, at a round-table discussion at the Old Worthen in Lowell,

MA. on October 3rd, 1992, explained that he was very much an imitator of

Kerouac.

 

On anothervein, but the same thread:

 

  A precise notation of Kerouac about Twain's story,  "Mysterious Stranger"

can in fact be connected to his sketches for Doctor Sax. He quotes in his

notebook, "Life is a dream...you are but a vagrant thought wandering

forlornly in shoreless eternities." A careful reading of Twain's story can

draw many parallels to Kerouac and his ideas for Doctor Sax. This

observation from February 1950 leads Kerouac to write, "Man haunts the

earth. Man is on a ledge noising his life." The idea that we are amidst

eternity, that it lives on within and without us parallels Mysterious

Stranger with K's ideas for early plans of On the Road and Doctor Sax.

 

  That's all for now! Don't forget to buy the first volume of Selected

Letters in hardcover from us! They are brand new and will also come with a

free copy of The Kerouac Quarterly Vol. I, No. 2.

 

   See The Kerouac Quarterly Web Page!

    http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.html

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 15:38:02 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tom <T.E.Harberd@UEA.AC.UK>

Subject:      Re: Tom Finds Problems in Beat History

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

 

On Fri, 14 Nov 1997 14:17:26 +0000 Marie Countryman wrote:

 

> From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 14:17:26 +0000

> Subject: Re: Tom Finds Problems in Beat History

> To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>

> intro to queer?

 

Probably.  But my library has lost its copy... which doesn't surprise me.  WSB

must be a well stolen author.  And I resent paying #7 (about $12 ?) for a new

 copy

of it.

I also found a photo of Joan - in my copy of El Hombre Invisible, print of the

newspaper reporting the incident.

 

Tom.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 19:19:45 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      James Laughlin, 83, Publisher of Revolutionary Writers

In-Reply-To:  <346C55E9.2140@sunflower.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

THE KITCHEN CLOCK

 

How can we make it run backwards,

That taciturn white circle with

Its torpid black hands? We only

Touch the hands when standard

Time comes to shorten or daylight

Saving to lengthen our days. That

Clock is lazy; I'd like to throw

Eggs at it. But I don't want it

To go forward faster, as if it

Were drawn by death. Let it run

Gently backwards, pausing to

Greet happy times again: the

Day when the schoolboy wrote

His first poem; the day when

The first jonquil bloomed in

His little garden; the day when

His father tossed him into the

Lake without water-wings to

Prove to him he could swim.

"En arriere, ruckwaerts" and "in

Dietro;" those are your orders,

Lazy clock, until the spring

Breaks and it doesn't matter

What you do anymore.

 

 

--James Laughlin

 

In Memoriam - James Laughlin

1914 - 1997

http://www.connectotel.com/marcus/laughlin.html

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 15:20:59 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: McSorley's

In-Reply-To:  Message of Mon, 17 Nov 1997 00:40:36 -0500 from <DawnDR@AOL.COM>

 

I certainly remember the days before women were allowed in.  The old man at the

 door was like Cerberus keeping out both the fairer sex and those who were unde

rage.   When weomen were first allowed in back in the early 1970s, there was on

ly one restroom.  That was a lot of fun for a while.  Now, I'm happy to report

that there are separate facilities for men and women.  Lately, when I look arou

nd, I usually see almost as many women as men sipping their ales around the old

 coal stove.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 17:13:38 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: McSorley's

Comments: To: "D. Patrick Hornberger" <"eastwind@erols.com"@erols.com>

In-Reply-To:  <199711171534.KAA25585@smtp3.erols.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

I live right by Union square but Ive never seen McSorley's. Where is it?

 

 

On Mon, 17 Nov 1997, D. Patrick Hornberger wrote:

 

> Dawn B. Sova wrote:

> >

> > Does anyone else (besides me) remember when women were thrown out of

> > McSorley's??   Three smart-ass college girls --- freshmen,  no less

> > (Montclair State) --- in the winter of 1968.  It wasn't our age, because the

> > drinking age in NY was 18, even though it was 21 in NJ.  We went back a few

> > weeks later --- just for another forbidden try.

> >

> > Dawn

>

>

> When I weent to Cooper Union back in the 60's we hung out at

> McSorleys---(cheap beer, dirty with character) men only at that

> time--and as I recall the NY Times ran an article about it being one of

> the last bars in US to hold out for MEN ONLY...as a matter of interest

> this bar used to have its urinals right at the bar--so the legend

> goes...I do recall seeing Corso in there one time and I assume other

> NYbeats hit it on occassion. In Lower Manhattean the bar is famous and I

> assume McSorleys beer now on the market is a rip off of the legend.

> Patrick

> eastwind@erols.com

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 16:31:40 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>

Subject:      Re: more whitehead poetry

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Nanct Brodsky wrote on Nov. 17:

 

> It was Jim Croce...the album is called "dont mess with jim" or something

> like that....

>

>

> On Sun, 16 Nov 1997, Jym Mooney wrote:

>

> > Nancy Brodsky wrote:

> >

> > > Jim Croce also had the paranoia blues, from knocking around NYC too

> > > long...

> >

> > Are you sure you're not thinking of Paul Simon?  This is almost an

exact

> > quote from a song on his first solo LP.

> >

> > Jym

 

I guess New York City makes everyone a little paranoid.  :)

 

Jym

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 17:50:16 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Tom Finds Problems in Beat History

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

well if it's important to you, suck it up, join the ranks and pay the price.

 i've

had to do that for volumes in my own library never mind the public domain.

diff' strokes for diff' folks i guess

maybe you don't feel a need to read it. or suck it up. whatever.

mc

 

Tom wrote:

 

> On Fri, 14 Nov 1997 14:17:26 +0000 Marie Countryman wrote:

>

> > From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

> > Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 14:17:26 +0000

> > Subject: Re: Tom Finds Problems in Beat History

> > To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

> >

> > intro to queer?

>

> Probably.  But my library has lost its copy... which doesn't surprise me.  WSB

> must be a well stolen author.  And I resent paying #7 (about $12 ?) for a new

>  copy

> of it.

> I also found a photo of Joan - in my copy of El Hombre Invisible, print of the

> newspaper reporting the incident.

>

> Tom.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 18:20:48 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Seuss as Beat Technical Writer

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

thanks for the smile, jo: and you might even take a serious look at _oh the

places you'll go_ as an original beat book for kids:(however sexist but oh my

how that fits in with the beats <g>)

 

"you have brains in your head.

you have feet in yr shoes

you can steer youself

any direction you choose.

you're on your own. and you know what you know

and YOU are the guy

who'll decide where to go.

you look up and down streets. look 'em over with care

About some you'll say 'I don't choose to go there."

with your head full of brains and your shoes full of feet

you're too smart to go down a not-so-good street

and yoou may not find any

you'll want to go down'

in that case of course

 you'll head straight out of town.

it's opener there

in the wide open air.

out there things can happen

and frequently do

to people as brainy

and footsy as you.

and when things start to happen,

don't worry, don't stew.

just go right along

you'll start happening too.

 

OH THE PLACES YOU'LL GO!

you'll be on your way up!

you'll be seeing great sights!

you'll join the high fliers

who soar to high heights.

you won''t lag behind, because you'll have the speed.

you'll pass the whole gang and you'll soon take the lead

wherever you fly, you'll be best of the best.

where ever you go, you will top all the rest.

escept when you DON'T

becaus, sometimes you won't

i'm sorry to say so

but sadly it's true

that bang-ups and hang-ups can happen t o you

you can get all hung up

in a prickle-ly perch.

and your gang will fly on

you'll be left in a lurch

you'll come down from the Lurch

with an unpleasant bump

and the chances are, the,

that youl'' be in a slump

and when you're in a slump,

 you're not in for much fun

un-slumping yrself

is not easily done

 

you'll come to a place whre the streets ae not marked

some windows are lighted. but mostly theypre darked.

a place you could sprain both your elbow and chin!

do you dare to stay out? do you dare to go in?

how much can you lose ? ho much can you wn?

and IF you go in, shd you turn left or right..

or right and three quartyers, or maybe not quite"

or go around bak and sneak in from behind?

simple it's not I'm afraid you will find,

for a mind-maker-upper to make up his mind.

you can get so confused

that you'll start in to race

down long wiggled roads at a break necking pace

and grind on for miles across weirdish wild space,

headed, i fear, toward a most useless place.

 

THE WAITING PLACCE

 

for people just waiting.

waiting for a train to go

or a bus to come, or a plane to go

or the maile to come, or the rain to go,

or the phone to ring or the snow to snow

 or waiting around for a Yes or No

or waiting for their hair to grow.

everone is just waiting.

waiting for the fish to bit

or waiting for the wind to fly a kite

or waiting around for frieday night

or waiting perhaps for their uncle jake

or a pot to boil, or a Better Break

or a string of pearls, or a pair of pants

or a wig with curls or Another Chance.

everone is just waiting.

 

NO!

THAT'S NOT FOR YOU!

somehow you'll escape

all that waiting and staying

you'll find the bright places

where boom bands are playing

with banner flip-flapping,

once more you'll ride high!

ready for anyting under the sky

 

oh, the places you'll go! there is fun to be done!

there are points to be scored. there are games to be won

and the magical things you can do with that ball

will make you the winning-est winner of all

Fame ! you'll be famous as famous can be,

wit hthe whole wide world watching you win on tv

 

except when the y don't

because sometimes they won't

im'm afraid that sometimes you'll play lonely games too

games you cant' win

cause you'll play against you

 

ALL ALONE!

whether you like it or not

alone will be something  you'll be quite a lot

and when you're alone, there's a very god chance

you'll meet things that scare you right out of your pants

there are some, down the road between hither and yon

that can scare you  so much you won't want to go on

 

but on you will go

though the weather be foul

on you will go

though your enemies prowl

on you will go

through the Hakken-Kraks howl

onward up many

a frightening creek

though your arms may get sore

and your sneakers may leak.

 

on and on you will hike

and i know you'll hike far

and face up to your problems

whatever they are

you'll get mixed up of course,

as you already know.

you'll get mixed up

with many strange birds as you go

so be sure where you step

step with care and great tact

and remember that Life's

a Great Balancing Act.

just never foregert to be dexterous and deft

and never mix up your right foot with your left.

etc

words by dr suess

typos by me

whole damned enchalada dipped soundly with wine.

and so it goes...

 

 

 

 

 

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 19:29:01 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      pome

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

in the grocery

without walt whitman

 

hey -

you ever been to that corner

in the grocery store?

the damaged goods?

cans with dings, dents, lost labels?

(all dramatically reduced in price

for a quick sale

for hearty adventurers

or the desperately hungry)

 

if so,

be quiet,

approach with caution

handle all of us with care

 

look real careful

look hard

hold yr breath

close yr eyes,

and

look again:

 

that's me in this corner

a dented soul-

damaged goods.

 

do you think you will

hear me?

see me?

 

and if so,

take the chance,

buy and open,

 

taste and

recognize me?

 

(that's me in the corner

dented and dinged,

awaiting

a pan to call home

 

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 19:36:13 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: pome

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

never hit the send button when u r drunk

sorry all.

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 20:34:18 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Kerouac Reading: 12-3-97

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

I put up all the info on the Some of the Dharma reading and performances in

New York happening in December. Check The Kerouac Quarterly Web Page.

Included is the price, line-up (great!), and other pertinent information. Go to:

 

  http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.html

 

                      thanks! Paul.....

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 01:42:28 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Shani St.John" <lawlaw1@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: utne

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Michael Skau

Sent:   Sunday, November 16, 1997 3:50 PM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        utne

 

The current (Nov.-Dec.) issue of the _Utne Reader_ has a feature focus on

"Beyond Hip." An article by Tom Frank entitled "Let Them Eat Lifestyle"

has a picture of the GAP ad with Kerouac (p. 44); the article briefly

refers to this ad and discusses the Volvo ad which quoted from _On the

Road_ (p. 45). On the back page, under a picture of Bob Denver as

TVBeatnik Maynard G. Krebs, the magazine includes the following passage

from Mailer's _Advertisements for Myself_: "the beatnik is more likely to

have a good mind than a good body."--I guess the athletic Kerouac and

Cassady wouldn't fit the pattern of the beatnik.

Cordially,

Mike Skau

 

 

wow!  I don't know about you guys but that strikes me as being in very poor

taste.  After all these years Kerouac is still being seen as more of a symbol

than a writer.  It's the whole "King of the Beats" thing all over again.  This

kind of labeling helped to destroy him.  It seems dishonest somehow, using

someone's image to sell a product after they're dead.  I think it's kind of

disrespectful to his memory.  He would have hated it!!!!!! (In my opinion)

What are your impressions?

 

Shani

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 20:53:35 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         VIVA VIETCONG <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject:      harrington Book

 

I just received a copy of Alan Harrington's THE REVELATIONS OF DR.MODESTO via

interlibary loan. Has anyone ever read it? Just wondered if there were some

opinions on it, thanks.

 

Dave B.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 02:06:27 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Shani St.John" <lawlaw1@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Beat fad?

 

What is at the root of the resurgence of interest in Beat culture and

literature?

Is it  just a fad?

 

 

Shani

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 21:33:37 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: Beat fad?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

>What is at the root of the resurgence of interest in Beat culture and

>literature?

>Is it  just a fad?

 

     well... let me be the first to point out the obvious, and that's

the deaths of allen and bill within the same year..  secondly, i think

the beat doctrine validates the desired lifestyles of the young

generation, especially in a time when government and societorial

intrusion of privacy is at a high, and the go to school get a job get

married have kids house in the suburbs 2 cars life insurance retirement

hyseria is beaten into everyone's head on a daily basis.. it validates

the wanderlust carelessness lack of definite direction of the young

generation.. of which i am a part, so i don't wanna hear any whining

about what do i know from all you whuppersnappers out there.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 20:40:27 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Beat fad?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Tyson Ouellette wrote:

>  of the young

> generation.. of which i am a part, so i don't wanna hear any whining

> about what do i know from all you whuppersnappers out there.

 

laughing not whining!  may the whuppersnappers beware!!!!!!!!!!!

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 21:43:44 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Beat fad?

MIME-Version: 1.0

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              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

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ain't it sad,

deaths equal a fad

even before

the deaths of AG and wsb

the Gap ads were out

yet

it is the death

the media flash in the pan

all over again.

first time out it killed jack

no one left to kill by lifestyle fame,

maybe this time

it ain't the same

but

i dunno.

cheers

mc

a toast to jack

may our livers meet safe in heaven

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 11:47:37 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Beat fad?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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> Marie Countryman wrote:

 

> yet

> it is the death

> the media flash in the pan

> all over again.

> first time out it killed jack

> no one left to kill by lifestyle fame,

 

It wasn't fame or media hype that killed Jack, it was his own inability

to find anything in life positive enough to live for.  And his sorrow and

despair about the nature of human life was ingrained in his mind before

On the Road was even published or he had any kind of popularity at all.

Fame was at most an inconvenience, his attitudes about life were formed

early on.

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 23:33:26 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac GAP ad

In-Reply-To:  <UPMAIL14.199711180141300177@classic.msn.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

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> has a picture of the GAP ad with Kerouac

 

Somewhere at some point I found a sharp copy of this online and stuck it

on my site but it disappeared somehow sometime and I've no clue as to

where I found it.  Does anyone know where this would be having run across

it?  Sometimes my own befuddledness amazes me.

 

------------------

Alex Howard  (704)264-8259                    Appalachian State University

kh14586@am.appstate.edu                       P.O. Box 12149

http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586             Boone, NC  28608

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 23:36:32 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Beat fad?

In-Reply-To:  <msg1242928.thr-587f7f30.55d4a82@umit.maine.edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Tyson makes a valid point but I think it has a great deal to do with the

nostalgia that seems to characterize the 90s.  And a big reason of why

culture keeps looking backward for direction is that there's nothing or no

one now trying to take it forward, going back to some of my points in the

misbegotten Generation X thread.

 

------------------

Alex Howard  (704)264-8259                    Appalachian State University

kh14586@am.appstate.edu                       P.O. Box 12149

http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586             Boone, NC  28608

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 22:37:31 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Donald G. Jr. Lee" <donlee@COMP.UARK.EDU>

Subject:      Re: pome

Comments: To: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

In-Reply-To:  <199711180034.TAA21735@pike.sover.net>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

are you my angel?

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 22:39:09 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Donald G. Jr. Lee" <donlee@COMP.UARK.EDU>

Subject:      Re: utne

Comments: To: "Shani St.John" <lawlaw1@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

In-Reply-To:  <UPMAIL14.199711180141300177@classic.msn.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Of COURSE he would've hated it--it's just so bizarre--has anyone seen the

adbusters ad for jeans that says HITLER WORE KHAKIS?  Hitler in a

nonchalent pose, etc.  Pretty f**king funny, and makes the point

 

Don Lee

Fayetteville, Ark.

 

The Angel departs and where there was no fire no smoke, there is

really a little too much gravity for your species optimum performance.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 22:39:36 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Donald G. Jr. Lee" <donlee@COMP.UARK.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Beat fad?

Comments: To: "Shani St.John" <lawlaw1@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

In-Reply-To:  <UPMAIL14.199711180205270983@classic.msn.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

no

 

The Angel departs and where there was no fire no smoke, there is

really a little too much gravity for your species optimum performance.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 22:41:24 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Donald G. Jr. Lee" <donlee@COMP.UARK.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Beat fad?

Comments: To: Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

In-Reply-To:  <msg1242928.thr-587f7f30.55d4a82@umit.maine.edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

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It IS obvious but also true, as true now as 40 years ago--having your life

arranged for you by Consensus Reality--I mean, if you want a wife a

station wagon a dog plus 2.5 kids, fine--I am not being ironic,

actually--but to HAVE THAT LAID OUT FOR FOR YOU is horrific to anyone w/ a

brain--same now as in 1957, same (hopefully) 40 years from now...

 

Don Lee

Fayetteville, Ark.

 

The Angel departs and where there was no fire no smoke, there is

really a little too much gravity for your species optimum performance.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 22:15:39 -0800

Reply-To:     Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: Beat fad?

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Hello Diane,

 

The other day you gave us a wonderful excerpt from Jack Kerouac's "Are

Writers Made or Born". I was struck especially with the following quote:

 

'Geniuses can be scintillating and geniuses can be somber, but it's the

inescapeable sorrowful depth that shines through--originality.'

 

I second you notion

 

leon

-----Original Message-----

From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Monday, November 17, 1997 9:27 PM

Subject: Re: Beat fad?

 

 

>> Marie Countryman wrote:

>

>> yet

>> it is the death

>> the media flash in the pan

>> all over again.

>> first time out it killed jack

>> no one left to kill by lifestyle fame,

>

>It wasn't fame or media hype that killed Jack, it was his own inability

>to find anything in life positive enough to live for.  And his sorrow and

>despair about the nature of human life was ingrained in his mind before

>On the Road was even published or he had any kind of popularity at all.

>Fame was at most an inconvenience, his attitudes about life were formed

>early on.

>DC

>.-

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 01:26:49 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Anthony Celentano <VegasDaddy@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: McSorley's

 

The famed palace of virility and debuach is located on East 7th Street (btw.

2nd and 3rd) in the East Village.  I used ta live a few doors down from that

thar drinkin house, and let me tell you, the odor of sticky beer was not

unpotent as it emanated from the hallowed doors of the ancient Place.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 17 Nov 1997 23:15:09 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         WILLIAM PERRY <billp@NANAIMO.ARK.COM>

Organization: no company

Subject:      Re. James Laughlin

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Thanks to Rinaldo for sending along the tribute.  Jay Laughlin was my

next door neighbour in Norfolk.  Nice guy.  Skied with him a couple of

times, and was in awe of the fact he actually knew my beat heroes.

 

It made me feel kind of connected  to the scene just to know him. Being

a country beat or at least a beat lit reader living in the country

wasn't very common at the time.

 

He was kind enough to send a personal note along when he rejected my

book of poetry "Shadows of Norfolk" for publication.  Softened the blow

considerably .

 

Farewell, Jay.  Journey well.

 

Buffalo

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 07:57:31 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac GAP ad

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.OSF.3.96.971117233058.4236D-100000@am.appstate.edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

I have a framed picture of this ad on my wall and also,a  framed picture

of a very young Allen Ginsberg from New Yorker.

 

 

On Mon, 17 Nov 1997, Alex Howard wrote:

 

> > has a picture of the GAP ad with Kerouac

>

> Somewhere at some point I found a sharp copy of this online and stuck it

> on my site but it disappeared somehow sometime and I've no clue as to

> where I found it.  Does anyone know where this would be having run across

> it?  Sometimes my own befuddledness amazes me.

>

> ------------------

> Alex Howard  (704)264-8259                    Appalachian State University

> kh14586@am.appstate.edu                       P.O. Box 12149

> http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586             Boone, NC  28608

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 08:40:31 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Morgan <Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Anais Nin and AG

 

Marlene:

The relationship between Nin and Ginsberg wasn't deep, but they did know each

other.  To find her own references to their meeting you might check out the

1955-1966 sections of her diary.  I have the Harcourt Brace Jovanovich

edition which begins around page 63.  Good luck with your research.

Bill Morgan

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 08:37:45 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Hemenway . Mark" <MHemenway@DRC.COM>

Subject:      Beat Fad

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

 

It's my theory that the 90's are a lot like the 50's- conservative,

security oriented, corporate, big government knows best- hence the

resonance beat literature is generating. It follows that the first

decade of the new millenium will be like the 60's all over again (only

more so this time). Anyone else thinking this way?

 

Mark Hemenway

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 08:45:28 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Morgan <Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: hey, let's have a wsb reading that..

 

Dear Marie:

Yes, I believe that you're right to say that Naked Lunch and Interzone

routines first came from letters to Ginsberg and maybe others.  I think that

they were not part of the letters though, they were separate routines that he

sent along with the letters.  Allen began saving them and saw their literary

value and encouraged Burroughs to put them together for a book.  I think he

encouraged all his friends to write books, though.  Other letters to books

would be similar, I guess.  Beatrix Potter's letters to children became Peter

Rabbit, etc., but they were simply "in" letters, still written as stories.

Bill Morgan

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 08:48:43 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Morgan <Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Beat Generation in NY

 

Bill:

Thanks for the kind words about the walking tour book.  Please be on the

lookout for any errors and/or typos in the book and let me know for future

reprintings.  And when you get to McSorley's next, give me a call.  And

whoever heard that urinals were at the bar, I think was mis-informed.

Bill Morgan

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 09:22:50 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Czarnecki <peent@SERVTECH.COM>

Subject:      90's - 50's

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>It's my theory that the 90's are a lot like the 50's- conservative,

>security oriented, corporate, big government knows best- hence the

>resonance beat literature is generating. It follows that the first

>decade of the new millenium will be like the 60's all over again (only

>more so this time). Anyone else thinking this way?

>

>Mark Hemenway

 

I've felt that way for the last ten years or so and I'm excited to see what

lies down the road. You can trace the cycle back through the decades well

before the 60's. The reform era bohemianism near the turn of the century.

Late 20's and 30's radicalism, the 60's. So much of how each swing

manifests itself has to do with the particular going-ons of the

culture/society at the time: the great depressio; Vietnam war and nuclear

threat of extinction. What will be happening a few years down the road? So

much has changed since the sixties, such a short time ago but oh so

different!

 

Looking toward the future with a heartbeat on the past.

 

Michael

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 09:22:15 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>

Organization: Calgary Free-Net

Subject:      Just printed: new Rbt. Johnson etching

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

beat-L'ers

i have just complete a zinc etching of blues legend Robert Johnson. Unlike

my previous projects, that were were linoblock relief prints - this is

not. "Rbt.Johnson" is printed from an acid etched zinc plate (intaglio-

soft ground & aquatint) print, printed on high grade watermarked paper.

Etching allows for much more subtlety of image and i think

that this is one of the best pieces i have done. Paper size is 15"x22" and

the image size is 6"x9 1/2". I have run this etching in an edition of 6

(w/ one artist's proof) and have destroyed the plate.

        This edition is for sale for $20US per print, including shipping

and handling.

        if any of you are interested, pls let me know and i can send out

some further details and info.

        Thanks

        derek

****************************

Derek beaulieu

House Press (limited ed. chapbooks, prints, etc)

#5-933 3rd ave nw

calgary, alberta, canada, t2n0j7

"remove literary, grammatical & syntactical inhibition"

                                        -Jack Kerouac

*****************

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 10:38:24 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: utne

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.SOL.3.95.971117223806.13306B-100000@comp>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

The advertising industry has almost erased reality. It's like a monster.

But if you go into the monster and look at one little cell it's a normal,

healthy, hard-working cell. I have friends in the industry. Good people,

but the "whole" is sick. I cranked out commercials and produced them for

radio years ago. Had fun, made money, but the horizon was clouded with

pollutants--coldn't see anything clearly enough to continue--just the

smudged green of money.

 

I'm reminded occasionally that my retirement income would be considerably

more than it is if I had kicked-back, cranked, and ignored the view rather

than tearing my pants climbing through fences.

But, living lean has it's advatages, advantages, advantages, advantages, ad

van  t a  ge s s s s...screech click.

 

j grant

 

>Of COURSE he would've hated it--it's just so bizarre--has anyone seen the

>adbusters ad for jeans that says HITLER WORE KHAKIS?  Hitler in a

>nonchalent pose, etc.  Pretty f**king funny, and makes the point

>

>Don Lee

>Fayetteville, Ark.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 11:12:33 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Just printed: new Rbt. Johnson etching

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.A32.3.93.971118091419.24600A-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Derek,

 

I'd like one. How do I pay for it?

 

J grant,

 

 

 

>beat-L'ers

>i have just complete a zinc etching of blues legend Robert Johnson. Unlike

>my previous projects, that were were linoblock relief prints - this is

>not. "Rbt.Johnson" is printed from an acid etched zinc plate (intaglio-

>soft ground & aquatint) print, printed on high grade watermarked paper.

>Etching allows for much more subtlety of image and i think

>that this is one of the best pieces i have done. Paper size is 15"x22" and

>the image size is 6"x9 1/2". I have run this etching in an edition of 6

>(w/ one artist's proof) and have destroyed the plate.

>        This edition is for sale for $20US per print, including shipping

>and handling.

>        if any of you are interested, pls let me know and i can send out

>some further details and info.

>        Thanks

>        derek

>****************************

>Derek beaulieu

>House Press (limited ed. chapbooks, prints, etc)

>#5-933 3rd ave nw

>calgary, alberta, canada, t2n0j7

>"remove literary, grammatical & syntactical inhibition"

>                                        -Jack Kerouac

>*****************

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 16:53:24 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tom Harberd <T.E.Harberd@UEA.AC.UK>

Subject:      Re: Tom Finds Problems in Beat History

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

 

On Mon, 17 Nov 1997 17:50:16 +0000 Marie Countryman wrote:

 

> From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 17:50:16 +0000

> Subject: Re: Tom Finds Problems in Beat History

> To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>

> well if it's important to you, suck it up, join the ranks and pay the price.

>  i've

> had to do that for volumes in my own library never mind the public domain.

> diff' strokes for diff' folks i guess

> maybe you don't feel a need to read it. or suck it up. whatever.

> mc

 

Just find sucking up difficult sometimes.

Caroline Cassady just gave a talk here.  Cool.  Asked her about Joan, but she

 never

met her.  Although she did talk about Ginsberg's theory that Joan might have

 been

suicidal, and moved slightly.  Interesting anyway.

 

Tom.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 11:19:44 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Beat fad?

In-Reply-To:  <msg1242928.thr-587f7f30.55d4a82@umit.maine.edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>>What is at the root of the resurgence of interest in Beat culture and

>>literature?

>>Is it  just a fad?

>

>     well... let me be the first to point out the obvious, and that's

>the deaths of allen and bill within the same year..  secondly, i think

>the beat doctrine validates the desired lifestyles of the young

>generation, especially in a time when government and societorial

>intrusion of privacy is at a high, and the go to school get a job get

>married have kids house in the suburbs 2 cars life insurance retirement

>hyseria is beaten into everyone's head on a daily basis.. it validates

>the wanderlust carelessness lack of definite direction of the young

>generation.. of which i am a part, so i don't wanna hear any whining

>about what do i know from all you whuppersnappers out there.

 

A whippersnapper whining about whuppersnappers ?  :)

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 11:03:39 MST/MDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "j." <NIEL1000@BADGER.SNOW.EDU>

Subject:      Re: utne

 

Date sent:      Tue, 18 Nov 1997 01:42:28 UT

Send reply to:  "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:           "Shani St.John" <lawlaw1@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:        Re: utne

To:             BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Michael Skau

Sent:   Sunday, November 16, 1997 3:50 PM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        utne

 

 

it seems especially dishonest to be selling jk's soul on a gap ad:j.

 

The current (Nov.-Dec.) issue of the _Utne Reader_ has a feature focus on

"Beyond Hip." An article by Tom Frank entitled "Let Them Eat Lifestyle"

has a picture of the GAP ad with Kerouac (p. 44); the article briefly

refers to this ad and discusses the Volvo ad which quoted from _On the

Road_ (p. 45). On the back page, under a picture of Bob Denver as

TVBeatnik Maynard G. Krebs, the magazine includes the following passage

from Mailer's _Advertisements for Myself_: "the beatnik is more likely to

have a good mind than a good body."--I guess the athletic Kerouac and

Cassady wouldn't fit the pattern of the beatnik.

Cordially,

Mike Skau

 

 

wow!  I don't know about you guys but that strikes me as being in very poor

taste.  After all these years Kerouac is still being seen as more of a symbol

than a writer.  It's the whole "King of the Beats" thing all over again.  This

kind of labeling helped to destroy him.  It seems dishonest somehow, using

someone's image to sell a product after they're dead.  I think it's kind of

disrespectful to his memory.  He would have hated it!!!!!! (In my opinion)

What are your impressions?

 

Shani

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 11:07:39 MST/MDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "j." <NIEL1000@BADGER.SNOW.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Beat Fad

 

Date sent:      Tue, 18 Nov 1997 08:37:45 -0500

Send reply to:  "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:           "Hemenway . Mark" <MHemenway@DRC.COM>

Subject:        Beat Fad

To:             BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

 

It's my theory that the 90's are a lot like the 50's- conservative,

security oriented, corporate, big government knows best- hence the

resonance beat literature is generating. It follows that the first

decade of the new millenium will be like the 60's all over again (only

more so this time). Anyone else thinking this way?

 

Mark Hemenway

 

absolutely: its inevitable:j.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 10:28:28 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Beat Fad

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 11:07 AM 11/18/97 MST/MDT, you wrote:

>Date sent:      Tue, 18 Nov 1997 08:37:45 -0500

>Send reply to:  "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>From:           "Hemenway . Mark" <MHemenway@DRC.COM>

>Subject:        Beat Fad

>To:             BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>

>It's my theory that the 90's are a lot like the 50's- conservative,

>security oriented, corporate, big government knows best- hence the

>resonance beat literature is generating. It follows that the first

>decade of the new millenium will be like the 60's all over again (only

>more so this time). Anyone else thinking this way?

>

>Mark Hemenway

>

>absolutely: its inevitable:j.

>

>

 

Actually this is what they said in the 80's.  They said the 90's would be

like the 60's.

 

Remember that movie Flashback with Dennis Hopper and Kiefer Suthurland?

That was the catch phrase, something like: the 90's are going to make the

60's look like the 50's.

 

To me it's all hype and advertising all round.

 

"life is pretty cheap/it's sold a decade at a time" --Flipper (remember them?)

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 13:43:33 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Beat Fad

In-Reply-To:  <199711181828.KAA17029@hsc.usc.edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Actually, I thought it was "The 90's are the 60's, upside down"

 

 

On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:

 

> At 11:07 AM 11/18/97 MST/MDT, you wrote:

> >Date sent:      Tue, 18 Nov 1997 08:37:45 -0500

> >Send reply to:  "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

> >From:           "Hemenway . Mark" <MHemenway@DRC.COM>

> >Subject:        Beat Fad

> >To:             BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

> >

> >It's my theory that the 90's are a lot like the 50's- conservative,

> >security oriented, corporate, big government knows best- hence the

> >resonance beat literature is generating. It follows that the first

> >decade of the new millenium will be like the 60's all over again (only

> >more so this time). Anyone else thinking this way?

> >

> >Mark Hemenway

> >

> >absolutely: its inevitable:j.

> >

> >

>

> Actually this is what they said in the 80's.  They said the 90's would be

> like the 60's.

>

> Remember that movie Flashback with Dennis Hopper and Kiefer Suthurland?

> That was the catch phrase, something like: the 90's are going to make the

> 60's look like the 50's.

>

> To me it's all hype and advertising all round.

>

> "life is pretty cheap/it's sold a decade at a time" --Flipper (remember them?)

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 20:04:58 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Ode to Crazy Bull Caffe' in Piazzale Candiani

In-Reply-To:  <199711180245.VAA28266@pike.sover.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

marie wrote:

>a toast to jack

>may our livers meet safe in heaven

>mc

>

        it's windy

                                (early in the morning)

 

        it's sunny

                                (in the morning)

 

        people didn't like

        being called for free

 

                                (before midday)

 

 

                        dear Sir! DEAR SIR!

                        sorry

                        for the disturbance!

 

        hoax

        blots

 

        HOAX 99% OF THE TIME,

 

                now

        (in the evening)

 

        dear Lord! sorry SORRY!

 

        we are A BUNCH OF boxers

 

        and of course god,

                        yep GOD,

                                god is a punch-drunk boxer.

 

 

---

Rinaldo

18th nov 1997

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:25:41 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: hey, let's have a wsb reading that..

MIME-Version: 1.0

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thanks bill: i have a not too clear memory of a burroughs letter to AG in which

he wrote that the books were embedded in the letters, i didn't think of the

routines as separate attatchments, so to speak. i've started reading the

letters, and yes they do refer to pieces of writing (routines) which are not

written out into the letters i have read so far.

thanks again.

mc

 

Bill Morgan wrote:

 

> Dear Marie:

> Yes, I believe that you're right to say that Naked Lunch and Interzone

> routines first came from letters to Ginsberg and maybe others.  I think that

> they were not part of the letters though, they were separate routines that he

> sent along with the letters.  Allen began saving them and saw their literary

> value and encouraged Burroughs to put them together for a book.  I think he

> encouraged all his friends to write books, though.  Other letters to books

> would be similar, I guess.  Beatrix Potter's letters to children became Peter

> Rabbit, etc., but they were simply "in" letters, still written as stories.

> Bill Morgan

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 11:49:09 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         ANNE ELIZABETH SNEDDON <sneddon@NEVADA.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Beat Fad

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.OSF.3.95.971118134251.19043D-100000@is8.nyu.edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Okay....I've been waiting to see which direction this thread is taking,

but I think now is the time to get in on this.  Since about 1989 or so,

I've been obcessed with Postwar culture (call it Postwar Cool, call it

Vintage, just don't call it Retro--I hate that word!! It's like "beatnik")

which has sort of snowballed.  It started with the Beat Generation, which

got me interested in other 50's youth subcultures.  This logically led me

to Rockabilly, and the rest is history.  I don't know how it happened, but

there's something about this music that just makes sense.  It moves you in

ways that Nirvana just can't.  Listen to "Love Me" by the Phantom and

you'll see what I mean.

I thrift-shop for our clothing, my husband and I drive a 1953 Chevy, we

collect furniture from the 40's and 50's (some early 60's stuff...).  It

wasn't really planned and it's not a "prerequisite to be Rockabilly"--HA!!

It's just that Heywood-Wakefield furniture is so much cooler and well-made

compared to that chrome and lucite crap in the stores nowadays.  Our car

will last a thousand years if we take care of it, unlike some of those

tennis-shoe shaped modern atrocities.  When I wear an outfit to a show, I

can be sure that I won't run into ten other women wearing the same thing

because I bought it at the mall. And if we didn't buy this stuff, it would

probably be in a landfill somewhere. IMHO, the 90's are completely void of

soul.  Is it any wonder that some people should look to the past for

inspiration?  Granted, my life is somewhat of an extreme example, but what

can I say?? Thrift shopping and garage sales are addicting. Real Rock and

Roll is addicting.  Most of what popular American culture today has to

offer couldn't get me up with a cannon and a drum.

 

Anne Sneddon

 

Now playing:  "Pinball Millionaire" by Ray Campi

 

 

On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Nancy B Brodsky wrote:

 

> Actually, I thought it was "The 90's are the 60's, upside down"

>

>

> On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:

>

> > At 11:07 AM 11/18/97 MST/MDT, you wrote:

> > >Date sent:      Tue, 18 Nov 1997 08:37:45 -0500

> > >Send reply to:  "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

> > >From:           "Hemenway . Mark" <MHemenway@DRC.COM>

> > >Subject:        Beat Fad

> > >To:             BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

> > >

> > >It's my theory that the 90's are a lot like the 50's- conservative,

> > >security oriented, corporate, big government knows best- hence the

> > >resonance beat literature is generating. It follows that the first

> > >decade of the new millenium will be like the 60's all over again (only

> > >more so this time). Anyone else thinking this way?

> > >

> > >Mark Hemenway

> > >

> > >absolutely: its inevitable:j.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Actually this is what they said in the 80's.  They said the 90's would be

> > like the 60's.

> >

> > Remember that movie Flashback with Dennis Hopper and Kiefer Suthurland?

> > That was the catch phrase, something like: the 90's are going to make the

> > 60's look like the 50's.

> >

> > To me it's all hype and advertising all round.

> >

> > "life is pretty cheap/it's sold a decade at a time" --Flipper (remember

 them?)

> >

>

> The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

> Sure-JK

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 15:04:20 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Ode to Crazy Bull Caffe' in Piazzale Candiani

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

ihink you are onto something, rinaldo.

i enjoyed the pome,

wondering what psychotic post you got my toast to jack from.

marie

 

Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

 

> marie wrote:

> >a toast to jack

> >may our livers meet safe in heaven

> >mc

> >

>         it's windy

>                                 (early in the morning)

>

>         it's sunny

>                                 (in the morning)

>

>         people didn't like

>         being called for free

>

>                                 (before midday)

>

>                         dear Sir! DEAR SIR!

>                         sorry

>                         for the disturbance!

>

>         hoax

>         blots

>

>         HOAX 99% OF THE TIME,

>

>                 now

>         (in the evening)

>

>         dear Lord! sorry SORRY!

>

>         we are A BUNCH OF boxers

>

>         and of course god,

>                         yep GOD,

>                                 god is a punch-drunk boxer.

>

> ---

> Rinaldo

> 18th nov 1997

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 15:11:14 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: 90's - 50's

MIME-Version: 1.0

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>I've felt that way for the last ten years or so and I'm excited to see

>what

>lies down the road. You can trace the cycle back through the decades

>well

>before the 60's. The reform era bohemianism near the turn of the

>century.

>Late 20's and 30's radicalism, the 60's. So much of how each swing

>manifests itself has to do with the particular going-ons of the

>culture/society at the time:

 

     as interesting and appealing as it is to pigeonhole generational

tendencies into neat little cycles, i don't think it's very accurate.

even if it's evident that it has matched up before in this century,

you're talking a very limited time span out of eons of human existence.

 the same  cyclical diagram could be applied to war, every twentyish

years, ww1, ww2, vietnam... but that isn't really happening now.. it's

unrealistic to expect things to bend to habit.  and i think that

because we are in and even more so approaching a pretty unique period

nationally and globally the higher the chances that something entirely

unexpected will happen.  maybe, to use another potentially inaccurate

analogy, we're escaping the violent chaotic angst of our adolescence as

a country and approaching an age that has a need for stripping down to

simplicity and the simple pleasures that come with it.  i think the

beatific interest will continue to grow, whether it manifests itself as

a direct interest in the beat generation or just a similar doctrine

based upon a natural progression.  the coming decades though, it seems,

will definitely cater to an increased interest in simplicity and the

basics of human relations among themselved and to their environment.

despite exploding technology, i hope, we'll see a new allowance for

those who wish to remove themselves from the daily grind of 9-5 jobs

and the american obsession with what is essentially forced-labor in

this country.  let us hope the hobo will again have a place in american

society.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 15:16:42 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Beat fad?

 

Fad in the 50's.

 

Trend in the 60's.

 

Old news in the 70's.

 

Rediscovered in the 80's.

 

Classic in the 90's.

 

"cannon" in the 00's?

 

Howard Park

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 15:14:14 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: Beat fad?

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>>  of the young

>> generation.. of which i am a part, so i don't wanna hear any whining

>> about what do i know from all you whuppersnappers out there.

 

>laughing not whining!  may the whuppersnappers beware!!!!!!!!!!!

 

     ack!  and of course i had to go mispell whippersnappers... what

can i say, i'm typing on my laptop and the jeys are so mouch more

crammed together...

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 15:19:19 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: Beat fad?

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>It wasn't fame or media hype that killed Jack, it was his own inability



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