>to find anything in life positive enough to live for.  And his sorrow

>and

>despair about the nature of human life was ingrained in his mind before

>On the Road was even published or he had any kind of popularity at all.

>Fame was at most an inconvenience, his attitudes about life were formed

>early on.

 

     i think his "life is suffering" doctrine also was compounded by

his hopeful, romantic spirit, and the notion that his books would

awaken so many people to the wonders of beatitude, and on the whole

they didn't; or, they did, but not in the manner he expected.  as a

boddhisatva he suffered terribly at how others suffered, and it

compounded his own misery.  as he wrote, he even cries at bugs

upsdie-down in the street.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 15:27:05 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: Kerouac in advertisement

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

>> has a picture of the GAP ad with Kerouac

 

     gap's using kerouac!!!!!!  goddamnit, that's freaking blasphemy!

are they required to get permission from someone to use his image for

advertising purposes?  and, if so, would that person be who I'm

thinking of.  i dunno, maybe it's just my aversion to the gap

psychology.

     i do, on the other hand, love the levis commercials they've been

running, the ones that all fit in sequence in a kind of tarantino-ish

order.  there's one where the ice cream truck dud makes the kids answer

questions before they get their pops, like "Who's Jack Kerouac?" and

the kids whines "On the Road"  and then he asks the next kid "Who's

Birdland named after?" and the kid whines "Cha-lie Pah-Ka"  then the

guy asks if he was an alto or a tenor.... it's really great.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 15:23:16 -0500

Reply-To:     blackj@bigmagic.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Al Aronowitz <blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>

Subject:      Re: ALLEN GINSBERG MEMORIAL IN CENTRAL PARK 7/3/98

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

ANNE ELIZABETH SNEDDON wrote:

>

> Okay....I've been waiting to see which direction this thread is taking,

> but I think now is the time to get in on this.  Since about 1989 or so,

> I've been obcessed with Postwar culture (call it Postwar Cool, call it

> Vintage, just don't call it Retro--I hate that word!! It's like "beatnik")

> which has sort of snowballed.  It started with the Beat Generation, which

> got me interested in other 50's youth subcultures.  This logically led me

> to Rockabilly, and the rest is history.  I don't know how it happened, but

> there's something about this music that just makes sense.  It moves you in

> ways that Nirvana just can't.  Listen to "Love Me" by the Phantom and

> you'll see what I mean.

> I thrift-shop for our clothing, my husband and I drive a 1953 Chevy, we

> collect furniture from the 40's and 50's (some early 60's stuff...).  It

> wasn't really planned and it's not a "prerequisite to be Rockabilly"--HA!!

> It's just that Heywood-Wakefield furniture is so much cooler and well-made

> compared to that chrome and lucite crap in the stores nowadays.  Our car

> will last a thousand years if we take care of it, unlike some of those

> tennis-shoe shaped modern atrocities.  When I wear an outfit to a show, I

> can be sure that I won't run into ten other women wearing the same thing

> because I bought it at the mall. And if we didn't buy this stuff, it would

> probably be in a landfill somewhere. IMHO, the 90's are completely void of

> soul.  Is it any wonder that some people should look to the past for

> inspiration?  Granted, my life is somewhat of an extreme example, but what

> can I say?? Thrift shopping and garage sales are addicting. Real Rock and

> Roll is addicting.  Most of what popular American culture today has to

> offer couldn't get me up with a cannon and a drum.

>

> Anne Sneddon

>

> Now playing:  "Pinball Millionaire" by Ray Campi

>

> On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Nancy B Brodsky wrote:

>

> > Actually, I thought it was "The 90's are the 60's, upside down"

> >

> >

> > On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:

> >

> > > At 11:07 AM 11/18/97 MST/MDT, you wrote:

> > > >Date sent:      Tue, 18 Nov 1997 08:37:45 -0500

> > > >Send reply to:  "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

> > > >From:           "Hemenway . Mark" <MHemenway@DRC.COM>

> > > >Subject:        Beat Fad

> > > >To:             BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

> > > >

> > > >It's my theory that the 90's are a lot like the 50's- conservative,

> > > >security oriented, corporate, big government knows best- hence the

> > > >resonance beat literature is generating. It follows that the first

> > > >decade of the new millenium will be like the 60's all over again (only

> > > >more so this time). Anyone else thinking this way?

> > > >

> > > >Mark Hemenway

> > > >

> > > >absolutely: its inevitable:j.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Actually this is what they said in the 80's.  They said the 90's would be

> > > like the 60's.

> > >

> > > Remember that movie Flashback with Dennis Hopper and Kiefer Suthurland?

> > > That was the catch phrase, something like: the 90's are going to make the

> > > 60's look like the 50's.

> > >

> > > To me it's all hype and advertising all round.

> > >

> > > "life is pretty cheap/it's sold a decade at a time" --Flipper (remember

>  them?)

> > >

> >

> > The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

> > Sure-JK

> >

 

Just wanna let everyone know that the NYC Parks Department has just

confirmed our ALLEN GINSBERG MEMORIAL in Central Park on June 3, 1998,

Allen's 72d birthday.  Following is a copy of the recruitment letter we

have been sending out to those recommended (by those who are already

members) for membership in the ALLEN GINSBERG MEMORIAL COMMITTEE.  Big

plans are in the works for a global convocation of contemporaneity's

"Best Minds." --Al Aronowitz, secretary, THE ALLEN GINSBERG MEMORIAL

COMMITTEE.

On the drive to Allen Ginsberg's funeral, poet/activist Amiri Baraka

kept bemoaning the probability that the services were going to take

place in a Buddhist meditation room too small to hold all those who

wanted to attend.

 

"But Allen's secretary [Bob Rosenthal] told me the funeral is going to

be private," I commented.

 

"You'll see," Amiri said.

 

In the Buddhist meditation room, some were sitting in chairs, some were

sitting on the floor, some were sitting on radiators.  The room was

jam-packed.  To watch the proceedings, some were forced to crowd into

the room's doorway, blocking it.  Some tried to hear what was going on

from the adjoining room.  Some were in the corridor.  Some were on the

sidewalk below.

 

Nor was St. Mark's Church accommodating enough to hold the crowd trying

to attend the Poetry Project's Memorial for Allen a week later.  Nor did

the Veteran Wadsworth Theater provide room enough for all those who

wanted to attend the memorial for Allen in Los Angeles a few weeks

afterwards.  There were memorials for Allen all around the country,

including Brooklyn, and my understanding is that the preponderance of

these memorials were in venues not large enough to accommodate all those

who wanted to attend.  In fact, more memorials for Allen are planned

throughout the globe.  A giant of our times has died and not all those

who wish to honor his memory have been given the opportunity to do so.

 

Which is one reason why Amiri and I, both of whom had known Allen for

some 40 years, decided to form an ad hoc organization known as THE ALLEN

GINSBERG MEMORIAL COMMITTEE, enlisting the best minds of our times to

form a world-wide alliance of poets, writers, painters, musicians,

actors, photographers, filmmakers, educators and others prominent in the

intellectual community, the arts and allied fields.  Plus a lot of

people who just <I>knew</I> Allen or who felt any kind of kinship with

him.  The purpose of this committee is to honor the late Allen with a

memorial befitting such a giant: a gigantic <I>International</I> tribute

to be held in Central Park, a venue which ought to be large enough to

accommodate everyone who wants to be there.  Amiri, a New Jersey native

like Allen and like me, is also planning a second tribute in his home

town of Newark.  It is our intention that both these tributes represent

a gathering of some of the best minds of our times.

 

The membership of our committee keeps snowballing, with more names being

added every day from all parts of the world.  So far, the membership

includes such notables as Vaclav Havel, president of the Czech Republic;

actors Johnny Depp, Peter Coyote and Dennis Hopper; playwright Sam

Shepard; musicians David Amram, Pete Seeger, Kinky Friedman and Country

Joe McDonald; authors Toni Morrison, Kurt Vonnegut, Tom Robbins, George

Plimpton, Ken Kesey, Dr. Maya Angelou, Hunter Thompson and E.L.

Doctorow; photographer Robert Frank; Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

songwriter Gerry Goffin; legendary music producers Ahmet Ertegun and

Jerry Wexler and on and on, plus Andrei Voznesensky, Lawrence

Ferlinghetti, Michael McClure amd former U. S. Poet laureate Rita F.

Dove heading a list of poets from around the globe.

 

And we keep seeking others to join our committee.  It is our hope that

our snowballing membership will turn into a movement in support of

Allen's worthiest causes and he championed many.  Who was it who said

that poets are the legislators of humankind?  Really, Allen was out to

save the world.  Isn't that a good cause?  His foremost message?  The

Devil is threatening our planet!  It's as if a meteor is hurtling toward

us and is about to impact on us all.  The Devil?  The Devil lives in all

of us, deep in our hearts.  The Devil has another name.  The Devil is

also called Greed.  Blinded by this Devil, we keep raping the earth,

ensuring that the earth inevitably will be rendered uninhabitable and

our species will become extinct.  Are we no more intelligent than the

dinosaurs?

 

As everybody knows, we can never beat the Devil but we MUST keep the

Devil at bay.  We'd like this movement to fight the Devil and we

encourage more memorial committees to stage tributes to Allen all around

the world.

 

But that was only one of the messages which ennobled Allen as one of the

world's great messengers.  And in his role as one of the world's great

messengers, Allen's greatest tool was "the word."  "The word," in fact,

is the basic tool of all the best minds of our times who will be on both

sides of the stage at our international Central Park tribute.

Consequently, we thought it only fitting that we should look to the

word-processing industry to sponsor and underwrite the costs of the

event.  After all, where would we be without the word-processing

industry and where would the word-processing industry be without us?

 

On behalf of the committee, I wrote a preliminary letter to feel out

Microsoft's William Gates, saying "We lack one important ingredient:

funding.  We will need a stage, sound amplification, lighting and a

crew.  Also, I imagine that the New York City Parks Department will

require insurance and police.  In addition, we will have to pay for

airline tickets and hotel rooms for those who we feel must appear at the

event but who are unable to pay their own expenses.  Plus, I'd like to

be reimbursed for the few hundred dollars I've already spent out of my

own pocket for postage, telephone and other necessities incident to

organizing the committee."

 

No dice, came the reply in a form letter from one of Mr. Gates'

spear-carriers.  But then there are other CEOs in the word-processing

industry who might be more sensitive to the wishes of that industry's

clientele.  We might also bombard Mr. Gates and the word-processing

industry with a letter-writing campaign.  We will also consider any

other corporate sponsors who might wish to underwrite our Central Park

tribute.  Perhaps even the tobacco industry.  Allen would enjoy that.

 

Our original intention was to hold the Central Park event in late August

of 1997 but when New York City Parks and Recreation Commissioner Henry

Stern ignored first one letter and then a second and then a third and

then a fourth and then a fifth, we had to keep postponing our target

date until the warm months of 1998, by which time we hope to have

persuaded Parks Commissioner Stern to take us seriously.  By then also,

Mr. Gates might be persuaded to have second thoughts.  A good date for

the event might be June 3, Allen's 72nd birthday, which we can celebrate

in his absence.

 

So far, the membership of THE ALLEN GINSBERG MEMORIAL COMMITTEE consists

of upwards of 125 names, including the following:

 

Amiri Baraka, Chairman

Eugene Brooks, Honorary Member

Connie Brooks, Honorary Member

Ann Brooks, Honorary Member

Edith Ginsberg, Honorary Member

David Amram, Robert Frank, Michael McClure, George Plimpton, Aram

Saroyan, Charlie Rothchild, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Amina Baraka, Jim

Ragan, Alfred Leslie, Ed Adler, Robert Creeley, Anne Waldman, Gary

Snyder, Yoko Ono, Ed Sanders, Ann Charters, Robert Viscusi, Bob Fass,

Eric Drooker, Tuli Kupferberg, Larry Sloman, St. Clair Bourne, Kinky

Friedman, John Tytell, Chris Felver, Joseph Grant, John Perry Barlow,

Andrei Voznesensky, Richard Cammarieri, Jonathan Lim, Fred McDarrah,

Kurt Vonnegut, Rosebud Pettet, John Zacherle, Barry Feinstein, David

Stanford, Levi Asher, Lillian Davis, Pete Hamill, David Greenberg, Danny

Schechter, Robert A. Sobieszek, Gerry Goffin, Barney Rosset, Hettie

Jones, Jerry Wexler, Jerome Rothenberg, Danny Shot, Arnold Weinstein,

Janine Vega, Robert Lavigne, Joel Dorn, Bill Gargan, Jimmy Lyons, Quincy

Troupe, Charley Plymell, Pamela Beach Plymell, Ed Dorn, Ellis Paul,

Brigid Murnaghan, Hiro Yamagata, Kevin Moore, George Reed, Latif

(William) Harris, Dennis Hopper, Johnny Depp, Joyce Johnson, Brett

Aronowitz Luke, Ray Bremser, Brenda (Bonnie Bremser) Fraser, Jules

Feiffer, Leonard Cohen, Oscar Janiger, Kathleen Delaney Janiger, Paul

Krassner, Arthur Perley. Attila Gyenis, Morris Dickstein, Taylor Mead,

Diane DiPrima, John Sampas, Gerald Nicosia, Steve Cannon, John Sinclair,

Ted Joans, Art D'Lugoff, Ahmet Ertegun, Fernando Rendon, Gloria Cavatal,

Marcus Williamson, Kenneth Koch, Birgitta Jonsdottir, Hayes Greenfield,

Merilene Murphy, Peter Hale, Pavel Grushko, Kirill P. Grushko, Toni

Morrison, John Ashbery, Sam Shepard, Michael Dean Odin Pollock, Mary

Rudge, Gozo Yoshimasu, Ken Kesey, Ken Babbs, Jonas Mekas, Peter Coyote,

Ide Hintze, George Krevsky, Dennis Gould, Bernard Kops, Irving

Rosenthal, Paul Nelson, George Aguilar, Krishna Fells, Lucas Gutierrez,

Andrew Matovich, Heather Haley, Jean Portante, E. Ethelbert Miller,

Andrea Thompson, Ken Sherman, Dave and Ana Christy, Barbara Read,

Theodore Wilentz, David Gascoyne, Regina Weinrich, Kevin Ring, Robin

Blaser, Carl Hanni, Ron Whitehead, Pi-Oh, Philip Salom, Dr. Maya

Angelou, Sharon Levy, Kathy Acker, Gordon Ball, Bob Holman, Bill

Berkson, Philip Whalen, Michael Scammell, Karen Kennerly, Charles Potts,

Scott Preston, Barry Gifford, Galway Kinnell, Robert Peters, Larry

Fagin, Robert Bove, Theo Dorgan, John Reeves, Vincent Farnsworth, Gloria

Frym, Gary David, Rita Dove, Larry Winfield, Natalie Goldberg, Steve

Sanfield, Douglas Brinkley, Vaclav Havel, Aaron Yamaguchi, Eithne

Strong, Joe McDonald, Kurt Heintz, Natalie Goldberg, Robert Lax, Andrei

Codrescu, Lee Ranaldo, Pete Seeger, Hunter Thompson, Clark Coolidge,

Jack Micheline, Joe Napora, Tom Robbins, David Hershkovits, John Brandi,

Barry Miles, Jonathan Williams, E.L. Doctorow.

 

Still awaiting positive responses from the following, all of whom have

been contacted:

 

Bob Dylan, John Eastman, Paul McCartney, Linda McCartney, Neil Aspinall,

Ron Delsener, George Harrison, John Wieners, Ishmael Reed, Bruce

Springsteen, Lew Lapham, Howard Stern, Don Imus, Tom Friedman, Frank

Rich, Sally Grossman, Liz Smith, Richard Goldstein, Joanne Kyger, Sara

Dylan, Richie Havens, Joel Siegal, Andrew Wylie, Ted Koppel, Cecil

Taylor, Scott Muni, Sterling Lord, Brian Hamill, Miguel Agarin, Brice

Marden, Jack Newfield, Henry Stern, Carolyn Cassady, Norman Mailer, Lisa

Phillips, Richard Gere, James Grauerholz, Jim Dickson, Ornette Coleman,

George Soros, Lita Hornick, Felipe Feliciano, Don Allen, Lew Welch,

Daisy Aldan, Barbara Guest, Gwendolyn Brooks, Ntozake Shange, Larry

Rivers, Archie Shepp, Odetta Gordon, Jaap Blonk, Michael Horovitz,

Miriam Patchen, Grace Paley, Peter Orlovsky, Howard Hart, Patti Smith,

Ani Di Franco, Megas, Dirk Gortler, Bill Morgan, Bono, Rand Ragusa, Lou

Reed, George Herms, Jack Hirschman, Alan Kaufman, Duncan McNaughton,

Holiness Dalai Lama, Jim Carroll, Michael Stipe, Lenny Kaye, Seamus

Heaney, Cathal O'Searcaigh, Peter Sirr, John Giorno, John Updike, Maggie

Estep, Thom Gunn, Annie Liebowitz, Beverly Smith, James Laughlin, Robert

Hunter, Brother Patrick Hart, Ron Seitz. Christopher Underwood, Jan

Pinkow, Marco Cassini, Hersch Silverman, Jordan Green, Michael Andre,

Reetika Vazirani, Ann Hollander, Ann Douglas, Valery Oisteanu, Matthew

Smith, Jerry Poynton, Jack Hirschman, Ron Padgett, Ellen Gilchrist,

Lionel Ziprin, Gelek Rintoche, Jan Pinkow, Steve Ben Israel, Robert

Pinsky, Nanao Sakaki, Carol Merrill.

 

Still to be contacted:

 

Yevgeny Yevtushenko, Jose Angel Figueroa, Sarah Wright, Marion Brown,

John Giorno, Gil Sorentino, Hubert Selby, Mrs. Bob Kaufman, Michael

Horovitz, Esteban Moore, Gonzalo Rojas, Ersi Sotiropoulou, Haroldo de

Campos, Tony Harrison, Mazisi Kunene, Lauri Anderson, Rickie Lee Jones,

Tom Waits, Joe Strummer, J. D. Salinger.

 

If you can provide addresses for any of the above or think of anyone

else who should be contacted, please let me know.  And if you have any

Email addresses you think I could use, please let me know that, too.

 

We wish to invite you to join our committee.  We seek to honor Allen

with all the recognition he strove so hard to gain for himself.  Allen

had started out with the goal of altering America's consciousness and he

not only achieved that goal but he also left his mark on the

consciousness of the entire world.  He was truly one of America's

heroes.  In soliciting your membership in this committee, Amiri and I

want to make it clear that your membership does not require your

appearance at or participation in this event.  What we ask is simply the

prestige of your name.  Whether or not you appear at this tribute is

entirely up to you.

 

All the above-listed members have received a printout of my BLACKLISTED

JOURNALIST Column 21, which reports the details of Allen's death and

which also begins a serialization of THE BEAT PAPERS OF AL ARONOWITZ,

based on my original Beat Generation series published in 1960 in the New

York Post, almost 40 years ago.  Or else those plugged into the Internet

have been directed to my website [ http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj

], where they might find THE BEAT PAPERS OF AL ARONOWITZ, an expansion

of the New York Post series which still remains unpublished.  Column 21,

available at http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column21.html ,

includes an introduction concerning Allen's death and also includes

Chapter One of THE BEAT PAPERS, "BEAT," explaining the origins of the

use of "beat."  Chapter Two, "ST. JACK," [

http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column22.html] features an

interview with Jack Kerouac which Jack annotated himself.  Jack also

annotated an interview with Neal Cassady in San Quentin Prison, which

comprises Chapter Three [

http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column23.html ]  Chapter Four, <I>A

Certain Party</I>, tells about the very first "Beat" party I attended in

the apartment of Joyce Johnson, who was then Joyce Glassman [

http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column24.html ].  If you would like

printouts, please let me know.

 

Best,

 

 

 

Al Aronowitz

1380 North Ave. #201

Elizabeth, NJ 07208

(908) 289 8776

blackj@bigmagic.com

 

--

***************************************

Al Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST

http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 13:44:19 -0700

Reply-To:     saras@sisna.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sara Straw <saras@SISNA.COM>

Organization: SaraGRAPHICS

Subject:      Re: Beat Fad

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Hey, you're into 50's and 60's memorabilia, that's GREAT.  But don't say

the 90's don't have any soul... it just doesn't happen to be the *soul*

you are into collecting.

Yours truly,

the Rural Recluse

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 13:18:38 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         ANNE ELIZABETH SNEDDON <sneddon@NEVADA.EDU>

Subject:      90's Soul (was Re: Beat Fad)

Comments: To: Sara Straw <saras@sisna.com>

In-Reply-To:  <3471FE23.6A4A@sisna.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

That may be my warped Las Vegas perspective on the world.  I am surrounded

by people who think of their cell phones and beepers as status symbols.  I

think I heard somewhere that we lead the country in breast implant

surgeries, which means that the amount of plastic in some Vegas women

rivals the amount of plastic in their wallets.  Our "founding fathers" are

knocking down all the original casinos to build their version of

Disneyland, and knocking down anything old to build strip malls.  The

Forum Shops at Caesar's palace (with Versace, Armani boutiques etc..) is a

popular teen hangout.  I'm quite sure that there is *spirituality* in this

world, but from where I'm sitting, there is no "soul."

Anne Sneddon

 

On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Sara Straw wrote:

 

> Hey, you're into 50's and 60's memorabilia, that's GREAT.  But don't say

> the 90's don't have any soul... it just doesn't happen to be the *soul*

> you are into collecting.

> Yours truly,

> the Rural Recluse

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 22:17:09 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Aquila poems

In-Reply-To:  <199711182005.PAA06764@pike.sover.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

The Dark Elves

 

 

 

We walk on trails of darkness-

Exploring the hidden corners of the mind-

We dance among the neurons-

Playing tag with fleeting memories-

We dwell in the mind-

Creating dreams and nightmares-

We gaurd the dark secrets-

Those that you hide from yourself-

Those you will not let yourself come to know-

Those that you will not let yourself see-

Those that terrify you-

Terrify you because they are the truth-

We are deep secrets-

We are forgotten memories-

We are lost dreams-

And we are with you always-

Lurking, hiding always from your concious-

Dwelling only in the shadows-

Deep in the sub-concious-

 

http://www.rain.org/aqpoem.html

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:27:45 MST/MDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "j." <NIEL1000@BADGER.SNOW.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Beat Fad

 

Date sent:      Tue, 18 Nov 1997 10:28:28 -0800

Send reply to:  "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:           "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:        Re: Beat Fad

To:             BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

 

At 11:07 AM 11/18/97 MST/MDT, you wrote:

>Date sent:      Tue, 18 Nov 1997 08:37:45 -0500

>Send reply to:  "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>From:           "Hemenway . Mark" <MHemenway@DRC.COM>

>Subject:        Beat Fad

>To:             BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>

a lot of this is due to capitalism: exploitation of previous

generations repackaged and sold to todays youth: old values in a new

box i suppose: but history as well as fashion and music repeats

itself: but the nineties seem to be a conglomeration of the past 30

years: there isnt much intellect circulating out there: this beat-l

thing is sweet for its esthetic qualities(which i hate to speak of):

i see more resurge of the 1960s and 1970s with more responsibilty

tagged on in todays generation than i do of the 50s and the beats: my

peers are all making statements but they dont know why: feeding

the american monster i guess: the beats

knew what was up: the hippies just wanted an excuse for drug use and

promiscuous sex: and the 70's: sheesh:

anyway: j.

>It's my theory that the 90's are a lot like the 50's- conservative,

>security oriented, corporate, big government knows best- hence the

>resonance beat literature is generating. It follows that the first

>decade of the new millenium will be like the 60's all over again (only

>more so this time). Anyone else thinking this way?

>

>Mark Hemenway

>

>absolutely: its inevitable:j.

>

>

 

Actually this is what they said in the 80's.  They said the 90's would be

like the 60's.

 

Remember that movie Flashback with Dennis Hopper and Kiefer Suthurland?

That was the catch phrase, something like: the 90's are going to make the

60's look like the 50's.

 

To me it's all hype and advertising all round.

 

"life is pretty cheap/it's sold a decade at a time" --Flipper (remember them?)

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 22:19:32 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Ode to Crazy Bull Caffe' in Piazzale Candiani

 

Bravissimo Rinaldo!!  mille grazie per la sua poesia!

 

arrivaderla, sherri

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Rinaldo Rasa

Sent:   Tuesday, November 18, 1997 11:04 AM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Ode to Crazy Bull Caffe' in Piazzale Candiani

 

marie wrote:

>a toast to jack

>may our livers meet safe in heaven

>mc

>

        it's windy

                                (early in the morning)

 

        it's sunny

                                (in the morning)

 

        people didn't like

        being called for free

 

                                (before midday)

 

 

                        dear Sir! DEAR SIR!

                        sorry

                        for the disturbance!

 

        hoax

        blots

 

        HOAX 99% OF THE TIME,

 

                now

        (in the evening)

 

        dear Lord! sorry SORRY!

 

        we are A BUNCH OF boxers

 

        and of course god,

                        yep GOD,

                                god is a punch-drunk boxer.

 

 

---

Rinaldo

18th nov 1997

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 16:38:11 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: 90's Soul (was Re: Beat Fad)

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 01:18 PM 11/18/97 -0800, you wrote:

>That may be my warped Las Vegas perspective on the world.  I am surrounded

>by people who think of their cell phones and beepers as status symbols.  I

>think I heard somewhere that we lead the country in breast implant

>surgeries, which means that the amount of plastic in some Vegas women

>rivals the amount of plastic in their wallets.  Our "founding fathers" are

>knocking down all the original casinos to build their version of

>Disneyland, and knocking down anything old to build strip malls.  The

>Forum Shops at Caesar's palace (with Versace, Armani boutiques etc..) is a

>popular teen hangout.  I'm quite sure that there is *spirituality* in this

>world, but from where I'm sitting, there is no "soul."

>Anne Sneddon

>

>On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Sara Straw wrote:

>

>> Hey, you're into 50's and 60's memorabilia, that's GREAT.  But don't say

>> the 90's don't have any soul... it just doesn't happen to be the *soul*

>> you are into collecting.

>> Yours truly,

>> the Rural Recluse

>>

>

 

 

I've been thinking for some years now that its madness.

Everything you read in a newspaper is theatre of the

absurd.  We're post something these days.  Marching up

to the millenium without a clue. Its ridiculous, its

even somewhat fun.  I don't know what's going to happen.

I hate to say it, but its a great time to be alive.

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 16:44:57 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac in advertisement

In-Reply-To:  <msg1247782.thr-3ff78936.55d4a82@umit.maine.edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Tyson Ouellette wrote:

>     gap's using kerouac!!!!!!  goddamnit, that's freaking blasphemy!

>are they required to get permission from someone to use his image for

>advertising purposes?  and, if so, would that person be who I'm

>thinking of.  i dunno, maybe it's just my aversion to the gap

>psychology.

>     i do, on the other hand, love the levis commercials they've been

>running, the ones that all fit in sequence in a kind of tarantino-ish

>order.  there's one where the ice cream truck dud makes the kids answer

>questions before they get their pops, like "Who's Jack Kerouac?" and

>the kids whines "On the Road"  and then he asks the next kid "Who's

>Birdland named after?" and the kid whines "Cha-lie Pah-Ka"  then the

>guy asks if he was an alto or a tenor.... it's really great.

 

Tyson,

 

Permission to use Jack Kerouac in that GAP ad came from John Sampas, the

executor of the Keroauc Estate.

 

Sampas can do anything he wants with Jack Kerouac's image. How much they

paid Sampas is hard to tell, but I'd guess it was a substantial amount.

 

Maybe Sampas will provide that information to the Keroauc Scholars,

researchers, students, et al who frequent the Beat List and for the Kerouac

Underground Archive that grows and grows and grows, while the Keroauc

Literary Archive shrinks and shrinks and shrinks.

 

j grant

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 15:58:06 -0800

Reply-To:     "Nancy J. Peters" <nancyp@wenet.net>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Nancy J. Peters" <nancyp@WENET.NET>

Organization: CITY LIGHTS BOOKS

Subject:      NEW BEAT GENERATION BOOKS FROM CITY LIGHTS

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

------------------------------------------------------------=20

CHECK OUT TWO NEW BEAT GENERATION BOOKS FROM CITY LIGHTS PUBLISHERS, SAN

FRANCISCO:

> [To order please fax to (415) 362-4921 or call our mail order phone lin=

e

> at (415) 362-1041 or write to City Lights Mail Order  261 Columbus Ave.

> San Francisco, CA 94133.  Add $2.50 per book for shipping.]

>=20

> NOW AVAILABLE FROM CITY LIGHTS PUBLISHERS:

> 1) THE BEAT GENERATION IN NEW YORK

> A Walking Tour of Jack Kerouac's City

> by Bill Morgan

> $12.95

>=20

>         Set off on the errant trail of the Beat experience in the city =

that

> inspired many of Jack Kerouac=92s best-loved novels including On the Ro=

ad,

> Vanity of Duluoz, The Town and the City, and Desolation Angels.  This i=

s

> the ultimate guide to Kerouac=92s New York, packed with photos of the B=

eat

> Generation, and filled with undercover information and little-known

> anecdotes.

>=20

>         Eight easy-to-follow walking tours guide you to:

>         =95       Greenwich Village bars and caf=E9s where Kerouac and =

his friends Allen

> Ginsberg, Neal Cassady, William Burroughs, Diane di Prima, Gregory

> Corso, Hettie and LeRoi Jones, John Clellon Holmes, Joyce Johnson, and

> others read poetry, drank, turned-on, and talked all night long.

>         =95       The Chelsea district apartment where Jack wrote On Th=

e Road.

>         =95       Mid-town clubs where Beat poets mingled with artists =

Jackson Pollock

> and Willem de Kooning, and listened to jazz and blues greats Charlie

> Parker, Miles Davis, and Billie Holiday.

>         =95       Times Square, a magnet for Kerouac and the Beats.

>       =95 Columbia University, where the original Beats first met and

> began

>             a revolution in American literature and culture.

>=20

>         Each tour includes a map of the neighborhood, subway and bus

> information, and an insider=92s angle on Jack Kerouac=92s life in New Y=

ork.

> A must for Beat enthusiasts and critics.

>=20

>         Bill Morgan is a painter and archival consultant working in New=

 York

> City.  His previous publications include The Works of Allen Ginsberg

> 1941-1994: A Descriptive Bibliography and Lawrence Ferlinghetti: A

> Comprehensive Bibliography.  He has worked as an archivist for Allen

> Ginsberg, Abbie Hoffman, and Timothy Leary.

>=20

> 2) NEW BEAT GENERATION BOOK FROM CITY LIGHTS PUBLISHERS:

> TRACKING THE SERPENT

> Journeys to Four Continents

> By Janine Pommy Vega

> $12.95

>=20

> Janine Pommy Vega is the author of twelve books of poetry and

> performance pieces.  At the age of 15 she left home for New York where

> she joined the Beat Generation poets and artists.  She is featured in

> the recent anthology, Women of the Beat Generation (Conari Press 1996)

> and A Different Beat: Writings by Women of the Beat Generation

> (Serpent=92s Tail 1997).  For many years she has worked with Poets in t=

he

> Schools programs.  A member of PEN=92s Prison Writing Committee, she ha=

s

> been the director of Incisions/Arts, an organization of writers working

> with people behind bars.

>=20

>         From Israel to Paris, from England to the Amazon, from Peru=92s

> Cordillera Blanca to the Nepalese Himalayas: these are the locales of

> the true-life adventures of a woman who ranged over four continents in =

a

> search for excitement and knowledge.

>         Recovering from an automobile accident, Vega makes a pilgrimage=

 to

> ancient European sites of female power worship: Chartres Cathedral, the

> high hills of Ireland, and Southern England.  An interview with a

> Canadian smuggler in Lima=92s Chorillos prison takes her to the Amazon,

> where she lives at a penal colony and visits people in the jungle who

> invite her to a yage ceremony.  On a dangerous trek through the Peruvia=

n

> Andes she observes the wisdom and skills of her companions; and in the

> Himalayas, seeking remnants of a civilization built around female power=

,

> she discovers how complex myths illuminate the everyday realities of th=

e

> people of Nepal.

>         Vega writes, =93You do not need to know what you are looking fo=

r, only

> that you urgently need to find something.  The urgency does the work,

> the readiness to receive finds the answers.=94

>=20

> MORE PRAISE FOR JANINE POMMY VEGA=92S

> TRACKING THE SERPENT:

>=20

> The Boston Phoenix: Vega=92s book is a quasi-anthropological outpouring=

 on

> the order of Henry Miller=92s The Colossus of Maroussi, or anything by

> Lawrence Durrell.  Her writing exudes the grit of trekking alone in the

> Annapurna  mountains of Nepal, spending months in the Amazon jungle,

> braving rocky steeps and altitude sickness to climb the cordilleras  of

> the Andes. Yet this is no mere chest-thumping record of adventure

> travel. Woven into Vega=92s travelogue is her compelling personal

> narrative... Fascinated by the survival of ancient, poetic faiths in

> remote agricultural regions across the globe, she becomes both scholar

> and mystic-- a Boddhisattva seeking an image of herself among the ruins.

>=20

> The Buffalo News: Tracking the Serpent  focuses  on self-realization

> through experience of the natural world. Vega continually challenges th=

e

> limits of her physical and psychological endurance, the expression of

> her own sexulaity, even her ability as a woman and writer to gain acces=

s

> to the varieties of experience she needs to interpret the myths and

> belief systems that purport to explain the natural world.  The strength

> of this book lies in its ability to link narratives of natural

> experience to accounts of spiritual transformation. Vega=92s voice is

> never stronger than when her ego dissolves in the extremes of her

> worldly adventure.

>=20

> Booklist: Throughout the trips of this highly personal memoir, the

> spirits of goddesses seem to pull Vega, relentlessly searching for the

> female divinity, along disparate pathways long associated with ancient

> imagery depicting spirals and serpents.  Vega does not shirk from

> exploring her own erotic urges, either; in detailing encounters with

> lovers, she portrays a questioning , sensual nature-- one that revels i=

n

> the spiritual as well as the corporal aspects of a passionately

> experienced existence.

>=20

> Jennifer Stone, KPFA, Berkeley, CA:  In Tracking the Serpent  there=92s=

 a

> living language, a living human being.  A renaissance woman, Vega goes

> to so many places.  Like Henry Miller, she =93tears off a piece.=94

>=20

> [To order please fax to (415) 362-4921 or call our mail order phone lin=

e

> at (415) 362-1041 or write to City Lights Mail Order  261 Columbus Ave.

> San Francisco, CA 94133.  Add $2.50 per book for shipping.]

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 19:24:33 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac in advertisement

In-Reply-To:  <msg1247782.thr-3ff78936.55d4a82@umit.maine.edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

That gap ad is quite old....GAP has already been sued by the estate...

 

 

 

On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Tyson Ouellette wrote:

 

> >> has a picture of the GAP ad with Kerouac

>

>      gap's using kerouac!!!!!!  goddamnit, that's freaking blasphemy!

> are they required to get permission from someone to use his image for

> advertising purposes?  and, if so, would that person be who I'm

> thinking of.  i dunno, maybe it's just my aversion to the gap

> psychology.

>      i do, on the other hand, love the levis commercials they've been

> running, the ones that all fit in sequence in a kind of tarantino-ish

> order.  there's one where the ice cream truck dud makes the kids answer

> questions before they get their pops, like "Who's Jack Kerouac?" and

> the kids whines "On the Road"  and then he asks the next kid "Who's

> Birdland named after?" and the kid whines "Cha-lie Pah-Ka"  then the

> guy asks if he was an alto or a tenor.... it's really great.

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 19:50:51 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Some of the Dharma Readings & Performances

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>Update on participants at the Some of the Dharma reading in New

York..(Willem Dafoe!) and all other pertinent info at The Kerouac Quarterly

Web Site.

 

  Get your sample copy of The Kerouac Quarterly Vol. I, No. 1 there!

                                -or-

  Hardcover Selected Letters: 1940-1956 1st Edition for $10.00 + free issue!

 

Latest news updates!

  (Tom Waits to sing "Home I'll Never Be" with Jack Kerouac and Primus! on

   Geffen Records in early 1998)

 

 

 Go to:

 

  http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.html

 

                             Thanks all! Paul...

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 17:32:26 MST/MDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Theory <gros4389@BADGER.SNOW.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Beat Fad

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

 

> Okay....I've been waiting to see which direction this thread is taking,

> but I think now is the time to get in on this.  Since about 1989 or so,

> I've been obcessed with Postwar culture (call it Postwar Cool, call it

> Vintage, just don't call it Retro--I hate that word!! It's like "beatnik")

> which has sort of snowballed.  It started with the Beat Generation, which

> got me interested in other 50's youth subcultures.  This logically led me

> to Rockabilly, and the rest is history.  I don't know how it happened, but

> there's something about this music that just makes sense.  It moves you in

> ways that Nirvana just can't.

 

Music people have grown up with moves then I think.

 

  Listen to "Love Me" by the Phantom and

> you'll see what I mean.

 

 

 

> I thrift-shop for our clothing, my husband and I drive a 1953 Chevy, we

> collect furniture from the 40's and 50's (some early 60's stuff...).  It

> wasn't really planned and it's not a "prerequisite to be Rockabilly"--HA!!

> It's just that Heywood-Wakefield furniture is so much cooler and well-made

> compared to that chrome and lucite crap in the stores nowadays.

 

your right there, older stuff is generally made much better.

 

 Our car

> will last a thousand years if we take care of it, unlike some of those

> tennis-shoe shaped modern atrocities.

 

Germlins are the best

 

When I wear an outfit to a show, I

> can be sure that I won't run into ten other women wearing the same thing

> because I bought it at the mall. And if we didn't buy this stuff, it would

> probably be in a landfill somewhere. IMHO, the 90's are completely void of

> soul.

 

 

 Is it any wonder that some people should look to the past for

> inspiration?  Granted, my life is somewhat of an extreme example, but what

> can I say?? Thrift shopping and garage sales are addicting.

 

I'll buy that for a dollar.

 

 Real Rock and

> Roll is addicting.  Most of what popular American culture today has to

> offer couldn't get me up with a cannon and a drum.

 

Music is much different today than 10 years ago. What kind of rock

and roll are you referring to?

 

>

> Anne Sneddon

>

> Now playing:  "Pinball Millionaire" by Ray Campi

>

>

> On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Nancy B Brodsky wrote:

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 21:00:55 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac in advertisement

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Are you sure Nancy that the estate has sued? See the copy of the e-mail

below that I just sent Joe Grant.

 

        Antoine

 

                        ***************

 

Jo,

 

        You might just check with Gerry Nicosia on the Kerouac image in the

GAP ad. As he explained, under California law - and the law of some other

states and countries - the use of the image is retained by the immediate

family and their heirs. Gerry had made the point that in CA he had the right

to license use of Kerouac images - or perhaps the Jan Kerouac estate stood

to benefit from their use. One or the other.....

 

        By the way on a recent visit to bookzen site I printed off some of

the library related material and bookmarked it for my wife who is in first

year of a graduate studies course in Library and Information Management at

McGill University. Looked like pretty useful links.  The program has a heavy

automated services perspective; online databases, computerized library

systems and searches of the same. etc.

 

        Antoine

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never

cease to be amused."

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 21:35:54 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac in advertisement

In-Reply-To:  <BEAT-L%1997111821005480@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Yes, when the ad came out, I remember reading that Kerouac's estate or

some other rep of Kerouac sued the Gap for using his likeness without

permission...

 

 

 

On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Antoine Maloney wrote:

 

> Are you sure Nancy that the estate has sued? See the copy of the e-mail

> below that I just sent Joe Grant.

>

>         Antoine

>

>                         ***************

>

> Jo,

>

>         You might just check with Gerry Nicosia on the Kerouac image in the

> GAP ad. As he explained, under California law - and the law of some other

> states and countries - the use of the image is retained by the immediate

> family and their heirs. Gerry had made the point that in CA he had the right

> to license use of Kerouac images - or perhaps the Jan Kerouac estate stood

> to benefit from their use. One or the other.....

>

>         By the way on a recent visit to bookzen site I printed off some of

> the library related material and bookmarked it for my wife who is in first

> year of a graduate studies course in Library and Information Management at

> McGill University. Looked like pretty useful links.  The program has a heavy

> automated services perspective; online databases, computerized library

> systems and searches of the same. etc.

>

>         Antoine

>  Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

>

>     "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never

> cease to be amused."

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 22:08:26 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Donahue <donahujl@BC.EDU>

Subject:      the italian judge

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

hey list,

as much fun as ive been having reading, responding,

and learning, there is just too much going on.

but before i sign off again (inevitably to return, as

before), i have a question.

i teach a writing seminar, and i am restructuring my

section on audience: intended vs. actual, implied vs.

overt.  i am using kerouacs "letter to an italian

judge" and the "subterraneans."  part of the

assignment will involve what exactly kerouac could be

responding to.  this is partly because i do not have a

copy of the judges response.  if anyone out there

knows where i might get a copy, i would appreciate it.

i know i have asked this question before (for those

who remember), but i thought id ask again before

taking a break from the list.

i can be responded to either through the list or at

donahujl@moa.bc.edu

thank youfor any help, guidance, or direction anyone

may be able to provide.

jim donahue

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 03:36:50 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Shani St.John" <lawlaw1@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Beat fad?

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Diane Carter

Sent:   Monday, November 17, 1997 2:47 PM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Re: Beat fad?

 

> Marie Countryman wrote:

 

> yet

> it is the death

> the media flash in the pan

> all over again.

> first time out it killed jack

> no one left to kill by lifestyle fame,

 

It wasn't fame or media hype that killed Jack, it was his own inability

to find anything in life positive enough to live for.  And his sorrow and

despair about the nature of human life was ingrained in his mind before

On the Road was even published or he had any kind of popularity at all.

Fame was at most an inconvenience, his attitudes about life were formed

early on.

DC

 

 

i agree with you for the most part.  But, he (much like N.C) couldn't deal

with the expectations and pressure placed on him by the public.  The public's

view of jack were and are manipulated by the media.  I don't think he knew how

to reconcile his inner being with his public image . As a result, he began to

"lose" himself.  Maybe that was his goal?! He no longer wanted to deal with

life. Fame or media hype didn't kill him.  Rather, the inability to deal with

it.  His upbringing is one reason for his inability.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 03:42:03 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Shani St.John" <lawlaw1@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Beat Fad

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Hemenway . Mark

Sent:   Tuesday, November 18, 1997 8:37 AM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Beat Fad

 

It's my theory that the 90's are a lot like the 50's- conservative,

security oriented, corporate, big government knows best- hence the

resonance beat literature is generating. It follows that the first

decade of the new millenium will be like the 60's all over again (only

more so this time). Anyone else thinking this way?

 

Mark Hemenway

 

I absolutely agree!!!!!!! Most definitely!!!!!

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 23:34:45 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: 90's Soul (was Re: Beat Fad)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

>I've been thinking for some years now that its madness.

>Everything you read in a newspaper is theatre of the

>absurd.  We're post something these days.  Marching up

>to the millenium without a clue. Its ridiculous, its

>even somewhat fun.  I don't know what's going to happen.

>I hate to say it, but its a great time to be alive.

 

     something to think about: was watching the national news tonight,

the female reporter was smiling as she reported on the upcoming

execution of a man this evening and a brand new execution chamber being

built in the state that the execution is taking place in.  am i in the

minority in being severely disturbed by this?

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 23:39:20 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: Beat fad?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

>The public's view of jack were and are manipulated by the media.  I

>don't think he knew how

>to reconcile his inner being with his public image . As a result, he

>began to

>"lose" himself.  Maybe that was his goal?! He no longer wanted to deal

>with

>life. Fame or media hype didn't kill him.  Rather, the inability to

>deal with

>it.  His upbringing is one reason for his inability.

 

     interestingly enough, this is exactly what happened to elvis, a

man who had the same effect on a generation.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 23:45:31 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: Kerouac in advertisement

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

>Permission to use Jack Kerouac in that GAP ad came from John Sampas, the

>executor of the Keroauc Estate.

 

>Sampas can do anything he wants with Jack Kerouac's image. How much they

>paid Sampas is hard to tell, but I'd guess it was a substantial amount.

 

     that's who i was thinking of...  well... it's peculiar to me to

say the least... i'll refrain from starting anything, cause i can see

the positives and negatives...  it's not a big enough deal.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 23:49:05 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: Kerouac in advertisement

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

>That gap ad is quite old....GAP has already been sued by the estate...

 

     ok, so permission wasn't granted by the estate then...  i think

it's a little distateful to do this... it's like the hoover fred astair

commercials... it just tastes bad.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 07:12:00 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      beat the last generation

In-Reply-To:  <199711182005.PAA06764@pike.sover.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

http://www.apsv.it/beat/index.html

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 03:19:06 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac in advertisement

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 11:45 PM 11/18/97 -0500, you wrote:

>>Permission to use Jack Kerouac in that GAP ad came from John Sampas, the

>>executor of the Keroauc Estate.

>

>>Sampas can do anything he wants with Jack Kerouac's image. How much they

>>paid Sampas is hard to tell, but I'd guess it was a substantial amount.

>

>     that's who i was thinking of...  well... it's peculiar to me to

>say the least... i'll refrain from starting anything, cause i can see

>the positives and negatives...  it's not a big enough deal.

>

>

So Sampas sold Jack to the Gap.  How awful.  I saw most of those

gap ads in the Times Magazine this summer and thought the

literary consciousness required to know some of the players, meant

the ads were directed at a very educated upscale crowd.  How many

mainstream people know Truman Capote and Jack Kerouac, after all.  How

about J D Salinger wearing a pair of Khakis and aiming a rifle at a

photographer from the porch of his New Hampshire home?  Or JFK opening

a white house door and disovering Judith Campbell Exner, both of them clad

in khakis, of course.  The Gap's ad agency missed a lot of potential

scenarios.  Perhaps its time to turn the idea over to Calvin Klein and

see what he can do with it.

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 06:34:26 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac in advertisement

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 03:19 AM 11/19/97 -0600, you wrote:

>At 11:45 PM 11/18/97 -0500, you wrote:

>>>Permission to use Jack Kerouac in that GAP ad came from John Sampas, the

>>>executor of the Keroauc Estate.

>>

>>>Sampas can do anything he wants with Jack Kerouac's image. How much they

>>>paid Sampas is hard to tell, but I'd guess it was a substantial amount.

>>

>>     that's who i was thinking of...  well... it's peculiar to me to

>>say the least... i'll refrain from starting anything, cause i can see

>>the positives and negatives...  it's not a big enough deal.

>>

>>

>So Sampas sold Jack to the Gap.  How awful.  I saw most of those

>gap ads in the Times Magazine this summer and thought the

>literary consciousness required to know some of the players, meant

>the ads were directed at a very educated upscale crowd.  How many

>mainstream people know Truman Capote and Jack Kerouac, after all.  How

>about J D Salinger wearing a pair of Khakis and aiming a rifle at a

>photographer from the porch of his New Hampshire home?  Or JFK opening

>a white house door and disovering Judith Campbell Exner, both of them clad

>in khakis, of course.  The Gap's ad agency missed a lot of potential

>scenarios.  Perhaps its time to turn the idea over to Calvin Klein and

>see what he can do with it.

>

>Mike Rice

>Jack was on good company in those ads....Salvador Dali wore

khakis...Ginsberg wore...Albert Einstein wore...Miles Davis....he could have

been in worse things such as Burroughs and Nikes...Paul...

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:14:09 +0000

Reply-To:     caridade@mail.telepac.pt

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         caridade <caridade@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>

Subject:      Great Novel (not american though)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Try and read "L'Arrache-Couer" (don't know the title in english or even

if it has been translated, but should sound something like this 'The

Heart snatcher' or 'The Heart Puller' by Boris Vian.

 

I'd like to hear opinions about it...

 

See you,

daniel caridade

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 07:54:32 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac in advertisement

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Mike Rice wrote:

> The Gap's ad agency missed a lot of potential

> scenarios.  Perhaps its time to turn the idea over to Calvin Klein and

> see what he can do with it.

>

> Mike Rice

 

J.D. Salinger could point the rifle at John Kennedy.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 09:02:54 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Preston Whaley <paw8670@MAILER.FSU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: 90's Soul (was Re: Beat Fad)

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>>I've been thinking for some years now that its madness.

>>Everything you read in a newspaper is theatre of the

>>absurd.  We're post something these days.  Marching up

>>to the millenium without a clue. Its ridiculous, its

>>even somewhat fun.  I don't know what's going to happen.

>>I hate to say it, but its a great time to be alive.

>

>     something to think about: was watching the national news tonight,

>the female reporter was smiling as she reported on the upcoming

>execution of a man this evening and a brand new execution chamber being

>built in the state that the execution is taking place in.  am i in the

>minority in being severely disturbed by this?

 

Was her name Mona Lisa?

 

But I agree there's much to be disturbed about with the America tv delivers

--  Roman collosium in every home.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 09:06:30 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Kerouac ads

 

Frankly, I enjoy the Kerouac ads and I think that they can only help

attract new readers to Kerouac's work.    Sure, it's somewhat ironic

that a writer who was basically anti-materialistic is being used by

Madison Avenue to sell things but life is funny sometimes.   If some of

those customers become readers and begin to question the values that

Madison Avenue promotes that's all to the good.  As far as the estate

making money on the deal, I hope they make a lot.  That way they may be

able to afford to sell the archives to a library at a price the library

can afford.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 08:16:46 -0600

Reply-To:     cawilkie@comic.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>

Subject:      Beat fads, movie quotes, and flipper

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> Subject:

>         Re: Beat Fad

>   Date:

>         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 10:28:28 -0800

>   From:

>         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

>

>

> At 11:07 AM 11/18/97 MST/MDT, you wrote:

> >Date sent:      Tue, 18 Nov 1997 08:37:45 -0500

> >Send reply to:  "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

> >From:           "Hemenway . Mark" <MHemenway@DRC.COM>

> >Subject:        Beat Fad

> >To:             BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

> >

> >It's my theory that the 90's are a lot like the 50's- conservative,

> >security oriented, corporate, big government knows best- hence the

> >resonance beat literature is generating. It follows that the first

> >decade of the new millenium will be like the 60's all over again (only

> >more so this time). Anyone else thinking this way?

> >

> >Mark Hemenway

> >

> >absolutely: its inevitable:j.

> >

> >

>

> Actually this is what they said in the 80's.  They said the 90's would be

> like the 60's.

>

> Remember that movie Flashback with Dennis Hopper and Kiefer Suthurland?

> That was the catch phrase, something like: the 90's are going to make the

> 60's look like the 50's.

>

> To me it's all hype and advertising all round.

>

> "life is pretty cheap/it's sold a decade at a time" --Flipper (remember them?)

>

 

 

 

It's spooky sometimes how you people can read my mind....

 

  As I was reading through the digest, about 5 messages ago I thought of

that quote from the movie 'flashback' and went and put the soundtrack in

the cd player.

 

 Now, Tim,you go and ask if anyone remembers Flipper.

COURSE I DO!!!!!!!!!!

Now, people, if you would, could we stop these weird mind control and

e.s.p. experiments?????

 

 

just joshin' you,

 

cathy

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 08:32:01 -0600

Reply-To:     cawilkie@comic.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>

Subject:      re; beat fad thang and a word from gen-x

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> Subject:

>         Re: Beat Fad

>   Date:

>         Tue, 18 Nov 1997 11:49:09 -0800

>   From:

>         ANNE ELIZABETH SNEDDON <sneddon@NEVADA.EDU>

>

>

 I don't know how it happened, but

> there's something about this music that just makes sense.  It moves you in

> ways that Nirvana just can't.  Listen to "Love Me" by the Phantom and

> you'll see what I mean.

 

 

.... IMHO, the 90's are completely void of

> soul.  Is it any wonder that some people should look to the past for

> inspiration?  Granted, my life is somewhat of an extreme example, but what

> can I say?? Thrift shopping and garage sales are addicting. Real Rock and

> Roll is addicting.  Most of what popular American culture today has to

> offer couldn't get me up with a cannon and a drum.

>

> Anne Sneddon

>

 

AND NOW A WORD FROM A MEMBER OF GENERATION X:

 

 

point, counterpoint.  We could go on like this forever.

 

First the music thing:  it's entirely subjective.  what we listen to is

entirely our own choice, and different songs speak to different people

in different ways.  For example, i 'get moved' by both 'smells like teen

spirit" and 'loverman' by sarah vaughan.  the doors move me, as does

cracker.  traffic moves me, as does beck.  real rock and roll only lives

in everbody's hearts.  I cannot put anybody down for liking music that i

don't particulary care for, it's as if i would be stepping on their

entire system of beliefs.  One is not 'better' than the other in the

long run.  In 20-30 years my future children will be listening to

nirvana as i did the doors when i was in high school.  there's always

the thing of idolizing dead rock stars.  I do not solely look to the

past for inspiration, i do see great things ahead.  it's only the past

that gets us through to the future....

 

HOWEVER, for those who feel as if they were born in the wrong time

decade millenium etc etc  all i have to say is this:

 

in the cosmic huge scheme of things, if you were meant to be born then,

you would have been.  There's a purpose for your being here now.

 

and i must ramble on....

 

cathy

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:18:49 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Beat fad?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

shani:

thanks for the thoughtful post, which bridges the GAP <g> between the two

viewpoints,

mc

 

Shani St.John wrote:

 

> ----------

> From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Diane Carter

> Sent:   Monday, November 17, 1997 2:47 PM

> To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

> Subject:        Re: Beat fad?

>

> > Marie Countryman wrote:

>

> > yet

> > it is the death

> > the media flash in the pan

> > all over again.

> > first time out it killed jack

> > no one left to kill by lifestyle fame,

>

> It wasn't fame or media hype that killed Jack, it was his own inability

> to find anything in life positive enough to live for.  And his sorrow and

> despair about the nature of human life was ingrained in his mind before

> On the Road was even published or he had any kind of popularity at all.

> Fame was at most an inconvenience, his attitudes about life were formed

> early on.

> DC

>

> i agree with you for the most part.  But, he (much like N.C) couldn't deal

> with the expectations and pressure placed on him by the public.  The public's

> view of jack were and are manipulated by the media.  I don't think he knew how

> to reconcile his inner being with his public image . As a result, he began to

> "lose" himself.  Maybe that was his goal?! He no longer wanted to deal with

> life. Fame or media hype didn't kill him.  Rather, the inability to deal with

> it.  His upbringing is one reason for his inability.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:23:32 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: 90's Soul (was Re: Beat Fad)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

>

>

>      something to think about: was watching the national news tonight,

> the female reporter was smiling as she reported on the upcoming

> execution of a man this evening and a brand new execution chamber being

> built in the state that the execution is taking place in.  am i in the

> minority in being severely disturbed by this?

 

 nope. all them smiling news readers (i refuse to dignify them with the

label of reporters) give me the creeps to begin with, and this caps it so

far in my book. also, i've noticed that the tv news shows are  advertising

for themselves these days ..."tune in tomorrow and learn something we

could have told you today, but then we'd have no hook to grap you

with...eeeeccchhhh

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 08:42:17 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Eric Lytle <e.lytle@CED.UTAH.EDU>

Subject:      Re: 90's Soul (was Re: Beat Fad)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Tyson Ouellette wrote:

 

> >I've been thinking for some years now that its madness.

> >Everything you read in a newspaper is theatre of the

> >absurd.  We're post something these days.  Marching up

> >to the millenium without a clue. Its ridiculous, its

> >even somewhat fun.  I don't know what's going to happen.

> >I hate to say it, but its a great time to be alive.

>

>      something to think about: was watching the national news tonight,

>

> the female reporter was smiling as she reported on the upcoming

> execution of a man this evening and a brand new execution chamber

> being

> built in the state that the execution is taking place in.  am i in the

>

> minority in being severely disturbed by this?

 

 

    The talking heads don't usually take the time to examine what

they're saying.  Those teleprompters sure do move fast.   I'm pretty

sure the reporter has that smile pasted on all the time.

    Last year,  here in Utah,  they happily reported on the first firing

squad execution in ages.  We got all the grisly details nightly for a

week.  A real feel-good story.

 

-E

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 08:55:01 -0700

Reply-To:     saras@sisna.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sara Straw <saras@SISNA.COM>

Organization: SaraGRAPHICS

Subject:      Re: Kerouac in advertisement

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Hi Mike,

Do you remember back in '72, in Nat'l Lampoon magazine, a VW add (they

had the BEST print ads at the time) showing a floating VW with the

caption, "If only Ted had been driving a VW...."

sara

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 08:57:56 -0700

Reply-To:     saras@sisna.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sara Straw <saras@SISNA.COM>

Organization: SaraGRAPHICS

Subject:      Re: 90's Soul (was Re: Beat Fad)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

You know, I personally don't have a problem with the crass superficial

bludgeoning of the TV mode.... It's called "freedom of speech"... The

problem lies with the way humans HANDLE what they are exposed to.  Now,

how do we fix THAT?

sara

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 09:00:30 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Eric Lytle <e.lytle@CED.UTAH.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac ads

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Bill Gargan wrote:

 

> Frankly, I enjoy the Kerouac ads and I think that they can only help

> attract new readers to Kerouac's work.    Sure, it's somewhat ironic

> that a writer who was basically anti-materialistic is being used by

> Madison Avenue to sell things but life is funny sometimes.   If some

> of

> those customers become readers and begin to question the values that

> Madison Avenue promotes that's all to the good.  As far as the estate

> making money on the deal, I hope they make a lot.  That way they may

> be

> able to afford to sell the archives to a library at a price the

> library

> can afford.

 

    I agree.  I probably wouldn't have taken such an interest in the

Beats without little hints about them in the popular culture.  The

Beastie Boys have a lyric about ...reading On The Road by my man Jack

Kerouac,  poetry in motion ....  which undoubtedly perked my interest in

the book.   I certainly didn't get any direction from the high school

teachers and college professors.   If there weren't any images out

there,  they might eventually be forgotten.

    Sometimes an ad is just an ad.  I don't think Einstein's theories

have been cheapened by an image of him wearing khakis.  Maybe we should

feel honored that the Gap has decided to market pants to us.  After

all,  we wear pants too.

 

-E

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:51:34 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         You_Be Fine <AngelMindz@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac in advertisement

 

Turn OFF yr fucking tee-vee, put down that slick stupid magazine and PICK UP

A BOOK, why don'tcha?

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:18:07 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: re; beat fad thang and a word from gen-x

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> Cathy Wilkie wrote:

>

> > in the cosmic huge scheme of things, if you were meant to be born then,

> > you would have been.  There's a purpose for your being here now.

 

> > cathy

 

> cathy are you sure of this? i always doubted this part of the whole

> cosmic thing.  I was walking along a beach with zippy the other day

> talking about how my body has been transported into a 50 year old fat

> womans body to help me adjust to the 90's time continuim.  so if you are

> sure i will transport back into the 32 year olds body, but i was pretty

> certain that this configuation was to help me write. gee.

> love

> p

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 09:29:44 MST/MDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "j." <NIEL1000@BADGER.SNOW.EDU>

Subject:      Re: 90's Soul (was Re: Beat Fad)

 

Date sent:      Tue, 18 Nov 1997 23:34:45 -0500

Send reply to:  "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:           Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization:   University of Maine

Subject:        Re: 90's Soul (was Re: Beat Fad)

To:             BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

 

>I've been thinking for some years now that its madness.

>Everything you read in a newspaper is theatre of the

>absurd.  We're post something these days.  Marching up

>to the millenium without a clue. Its ridiculous, its

>even somewhat fun.  I don't know what's going to happen.

>I hate to say it, but its a great time to be alive.

 

     something to think about: was watching the national news tonight,

the female reporter was smiling as she reported on the upcoming

execution of a man this evening and a brand new execution chamber being

built in the state that the execution is taking place in.  am i in the

minority in being severely disturbed by this?

 

 

please include me in this minority for i am utterly disgusted: though

the man may be getting what he deserves: pleasure should not be

derived from the deaths of anyone: what kind of a sick world is this

anyway?: j.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 11:39:30 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac ads

In-Reply-To:  <34731B2E.7F574211@ced.utah.edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

> After all,  we wear pants too.

 

Speak for yourself!

;-PPP

 

------------------

Alex Howard  (704)264-8259                    Appalachian State University

kh14586@am.appstate.edu                       P.O. Box 12149

http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586             Boone, NC  28608

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:53:57 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      hello west coast beats

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

i am going to be on the west  coast, staying with leon from dec 17 or so

through jan 17.

all through the efforts of leon, (wave! hi leon!)

i will be reading at at least one event, the first thursday of jan 98

at the Polk Street Beans and Cafe !

leon is looking into other readings places as well.

i'm so excited!

california dreaming in VT

icy cold and snow already up here...

mc

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:37:23 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jennifer Thompson <thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU>

Subject:      Re: utne

In-Reply-To:  <UPMAIL14.199711180141300177@classic.msn.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

i think he would have hated it in '68, but if he were alive today. . .who

knows?

jt

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:49:45 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jennifer Thompson <thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Beat fad?

In-Reply-To:  <UPMAIL14.199711180205270983@classic.msn.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Shani St.John wrote:

 

> What is at the root of the resurgence of interest in Beat culture and

> literature?

> Is it  just a fad?

>

>

> Shani

>

it depends on the generation buying the books now.  if it's the gen-xers,

of which i am an early member, then i think it's the grunge/kurt cobain

?philosophy? that is compatible w/ beat thinking.  we seem to be an entire

generation of misfits with an axe to grind.  in these days of school

prayer vs. court cases featuring atheists we're looking for spiritual

awakening.  hence the "new age" phenomena.  instead of responding to the

A-bomb threat, and later reality, we're facing national terrorism.

instead of political activism, we're entrenched in political apathy.  so

it seems that we're returning or finding kerouac, ginsberg, burroughs, et.

al for a resurrgence of lost values and insight in order to foster a new

creative era.  what will our generation of literature be deemed?  one can

only hope that the critics will not refer to it as x-lit, but as something

beat inspired with our generation's fresh perspective.

 

jenn

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:54:31 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jennifer Thompson <thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Beat fad?

In-Reply-To:  <msg1242928.thr-587f7f30.55d4a82@umit.maine.edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Mon, 17 Nov 1997, Tyson Ouellette wrote:

 

> >What is at the root of the resurgence of interest in Beat culture and

> >literature?

> >Is it  just a fad?

>

>      well... let me be the first to point out the obvious, and that's

> the deaths of allen and bill within the same year..  secondly, i think

> the beat doctrine validates the desired lifestyles of the young

> generation, especially in a time when government and societorial

> intrusion of privacy is at a high, and the go to school get a job get

> married have kids house in the suburbs 2 cars life insurance retirement

> hyseria is beaten into everyone's head on a daily basis.. it validates

> the wanderlust carelessness lack of definite direction of the young

> generation.. of which i am a part, so i don't wanna hear any whining

> about what do i know from all you whuppersnappers out there.

>

yes, i agree that it is the mixed-value message all over again.  remember

Neal's dream of the picket fence; yet he longed for kicks at the same

time.   gen-xers face the same dilemma; we are supposed to take the

fast-track carreer life of the yuppies before us...or we can follow the

Martha Stewart neighbors who long for the old-time home life.  so it's the

old "to be or not to be" all over again.

jenn

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:24:02 MST/MDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "j." <NIEL1000@BADGER.SNOW.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Beat fad?

 

Date sent:      Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:49:45 -0500

Send reply to:  "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:           Jennifer Thompson <thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU>

Subject:        Re: Beat fad?

To:             BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

 

On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Shani St.John wrote:

 

> What is at the root of the resurgence of interest in Beat culture and

> literature?

> Is it  just a fad?

>

>

> Shani

>

it depends on the generation buying the books now.  if it's the gen-xers,

of which i am an early member, then i think it's the grunge/kurt cobain

?philosophy? that is compatible w/ beat thinking.  we seem to be an entire

generation of misfits with an axe to grind.  in these days of school

prayer vs. court cases featuring atheists we're looking for spiritual

awakening.  hence the "new age" phenomena.  instead of responding to the

A-bomb threat, and later reality, we're facing national terrorism.

instead of political activism, we're entrenched in political apathy.  so

it seems that we're returning or finding kerouac, ginsberg, burroughs, et.

al for a resurrgence of lost values and insight in order to foster a new

creative era.  what will our generation of literature be deemed?  one can

only hope that the critics will not refer to it as x-lit, but as something

beat inspired with our generation's fresh perspective.

 

jenn

 

    SO WHAT EXACTLY IS THE Literature of our generation?: j.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 14:36:34 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jennifer Thompson <thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Beat fad?

In-Reply-To:  <150E59B1D0B@BADGER.SNOW.EDU>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, j. wrote:

 

> Date sent:      Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:49:45 -0500

> Send reply to:  "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

> From:           Jennifer Thompson <thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU>

> Subject:        Re: Beat fad?

> To:             BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>

> On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Shani St.John wrote:

>

> > What is at the root of the resurgence of interest in Beat culture and

> > literature?

> > Is it  just a fad?

> >

> >

> > Shani

> >

> it depends on the generation buying the books now.  if it's the gen-xers,

> of which i am an early member, then i think it's the grunge/kurt cobain

> ?philosophy? that is compatible w/ beat thinking.  we seem to be an entire

> generation of misfits with an axe to grind.  in these days of school

> prayer vs. court cases featuring atheists we're looking for spiritual

> awakening.  hence the "new age" phenomena.  instead of responding to the

> A-bomb threat, and later reality, we're facing national terrorism.

> instead of political activism, we're entrenched in political apathy.  so

> it seems that we're returning or finding kerouac, ginsberg, burroughs, et.

> al for a resurrgence of lost values and insight in order to foster a new

> creative era.  what will our generation of literature be deemed?  one can

> only hope that the critics will not refer to it as x-lit, but as something

> beat inspired with our generation's fresh perspective.

>

> jenn

>

>     SO WHAT EXACTLY IS THE Literature of our generation?: j.

>

i was referring to future gen-x-authored literature.

jenn

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 11:47:43 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Beat fad?

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>> > What is at the root of the resurgence of interest in Beat culture and

>> > literature?

>> > Is it  just a fad?

 

For some reason we have overlooked one thing about this "fad".

 

The "Beat" writers wrote good books.

 

That is the main reason.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 20:45:07 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: the italian judge

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.PCW.3.91.971118215414.12366C-100000@donahujl.bc.edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 22.08 18/11/97 -0800, jim donahue wrote:

>hey list,

>as much fun as ive been having reading, responding,

>and learning, there is just too much going on.

>but before i sign off again (inevitably to return, as

>before), i have a question.

>i teach a writing seminar, and i am restructuring my

>section on audience: intended vs. actual, implied vs.

>overt.  i am using kerouacs "letter to an italian

>judge" and the "subterraneans."  part of the

>assignment will involve what exactly kerouac could be

>responding to.  this is partly because i do not have a

>copy of the judges response.  if anyone out there

>knows where i might get a copy, i would appreciate it.

>i know i have asked this question before (for those

>who remember), but i thought id ask again before

>taking a break from the list.

>i can be responded to either through the list or at

>donahujl@moa.bc.edu

>thank youfor any help, guidance, or direction anyone

>may be able to provide.

>jim donahue

>

jim,

i've noticed time ago yr request, and i cannot resist now

to give you some info (but i'm not sure if it's useful).

what i'm writing isn't any scholar notes but only some fragmented

(johnny mnemonic piece of memories d/loaded...)

 

the "The Subterraneans" was out in Usa in 1958 (Grove Press, NY)

Kerouac was helped by Joyce Johnson to publish the novel.

 

in italy the novel was out in november 1960 and the publisher

was Giangiacomo Feltrinelli, and translated by an ANONYMOUS.

 

Feltrinelli was an ultraleftist (friend to Che Guevara).

immediately the "Subterraneans" was charged for obscenity but

in the end the italian judge senteced that the novel wasn't

pornographic but artistic work.

 

the "Subterraneans" (I sotterranei, in italian) translated by

an anonymous italian translator indicates that the novel was

not square. Because "Giangiacomo Feltrinelli Editore Milano" has

head office in Milan (italy) may be you can get in touch with

Feltrinelli Editore (Giangiacomo died in a bomb explosion in 1972).

 

the Feltrinelli's lawyers of course have a dossier about the

lawsuit dated in 1960. you can also contact the "Procura Della

Repubblica Di Milano" in Milan (Italy) where every document of

any lawsuit is archived. Any sentence of the italian judge is here.

 

the "The Subterraneans" (I Sotterranei) was prefaced by Henry Miller

and introduction by Fernanda Pivano.

 

the march 97 the 21th edition has on the cover a painting by

Tom Wsselmann, Great American Nude#54, 1964., Neue Galerie,

Aachen, Germany, 1992.

 

i hope to help a little your research...

i miei migliori auguri per il tuo lavoro,

Rinaldo.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 20:13:51 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Peaches!

In-Reply-To:  <199711182005.PAA06764@pike.sover.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

prologue

characters: Harold Pinter, Luchino Visconti and Tennessee Williams.

 

Harold Pinter: free market!

                "YOU ARE FREE

                BE GRATEFUL

                EAT DOG SHIT

                DIE HAPPY"

Luchino Visconti: i love you!

Tennessee Williams: Ah, Luchino.

 

part one.

characters: Mademoiselle and T.S.Eliot

 

Mademoiselle: hello!

T.S.Eliot: do i dare to eat a peach?

Mademoiselle: don't count on Me, please.

 

 

part two.

characters: Joyce Johnson Glassman and Jack Kerouac.

 

Joyce Johnson Glassman: you are nothing but a big bag of wind.

Jack Kerouac: unrequired love's bore.

Joyce Johnson Glassman: Ah, Jack!

 

part three.

the cell phone is shaking in my pocket, man...

quick! soon, don't do it ring!

 

 

---

Rinaldo

19th nov 1997

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:58:42 -0700

Reply-To:     saras@sisna.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sara Straw <saras@SISNA.COM>

Organization: SaraGRAPHICS

Subject:      Re: Beat fad?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Maybe I'm oversensitive, but if by " in these days of school

prayer vs. court cases featuring atheists we're looking for spiritual

awakening." you in any way imply that atheists are not spiritual, let me

correct you. I am an atheist, and I am VERY spiritual.  Spirit and

Supreme being do NOT go together like love and marriage.... or... DO

they? Hmmmmmmmm... maybe I've been ignorantly profound here......

sara

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:05:20 -0700

Reply-To:     saras@sisna.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sara Straw <saras@SISNA.COM>

Organization: SaraGRAPHICS

Subject:      Re: Peaches!

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Thank you, I ENJOYED that....."unrequired love's bore"....... heh heh...

The play's the message.

sara

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:53:24 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      re beat fad spiritual atheism

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 12:58 PM 11/19/97 -0700, you wrote:

>Maybe I'm oversensitive, but if by " in these days of school

>prayer vs. court cases featuring atheists we're looking for spiritual

>awakening." you in any way imply that atheists are not spiritual, let me

>correct you. I am an atheist, and I am VERY spiritual.  Spirit and

>Supreme being do NOT go together like love and marriage.... or... DO

>they? Hmmmmmmmm... maybe I've been ignorantly profound here......

>sara

>

>

 

This is kind of off the beaten path but still...

 

How can an atheist be spiritual?  I understand how spirit and the supreme

being do not necessarily have to go together but spirit and spiritual do.

Being spiritual implies the exisitence of spirit which is not in line with

atheism.

 

This does key into the semantics of "spirit" though.  I can see what you are

saying if spirit is not taken literally as in school spirit or the like.

The adjective that usually would correspond in this case though is spirited

rather than spiritual.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:20:31 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: re beat fad spiritual atheism

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:

>

> At 12:58 PM 11/19/97 -0700, you wrote:

> >Maybe I'm oversensitive, but if by " in these days of school

> >prayer vs. court cases featuring atheists we're looking for spiritual

> >awakening." you in any way imply that atheists are not spiritual, let me

> >correct you. I am an atheist, and I am VERY spiritual.  Spirit and

> >Supreme being do NOT go together like love and marriage.... or... DO

> >they? Hmmmmmmmm... maybe I've been ignorantly profound here......

> >sara

> >

> >

>

> This is kind of off the beaten path but still...

>

> How can an atheist be spiritual?  I understand how spirit and the supreme

> being do not necessarily have to go together but spirit and spiritual do.

> Being spiritual implies the exisitence of spirit which is not in line with

> atheism.

>

> This does key into the semantics of "spirit" though.  I can see what you are

> saying if spirit is not taken literally as in school spirit or the like.

> The adjective that usually would correspond in this case though is spirited

> rather than spiritual.

 

its a-theist

not anti or a spirt

just means not into theistic forms of spirituality.

 

praying to God (and my pet rock) we don't get another round of this

stuff!

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:10:42 -0800

Reply-To:     "Nancy J. Peters" <nancyp@wenet.net>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Nancy J. Peters" <nancyp@WENET.NET>

Organization: CITY LIGHTS BOOKS

Subject:      City Lights Web Site

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Hello out there from City Lights Booksellers & Publishers!

 

Check out our website at www.citylights.com for all the Beat Generation,

Bukowski, and a lot more subject matter!

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:04:02 MST/MDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         spoodgy_the_sponge_licker <NIEL1000@BADGER.SNOW.EDU>

Subject:      re beat fad spiritual atheism

 

Date sent:      Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:53:24 -0800

Send reply to:  "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:           "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:        re beat fad spiritual atheism

To:             BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

 

At 12:58 PM 11/19/97 -0700, you wrote:

>Maybe I'm oversensitive, but if by " in these days of school

>prayer vs. court cases featuring atheists we're looking for spiritual

>awakening." you in any way imply that atheists are not spiritual, let me

>correct you. I am an atheist, and I am VERY spiritual.  Spirit and

>Supreme being do NOT go together like love and marriage.... or... DO

>they? Hmmmmmmmm... maybe I've been ignorantly profound here......

>sara

>

>

 

This is kind of off the beaten path but still...

 

How can an atheist be spiritual?  I understand how spirit and the supreme

being do not necessarily have to go together but spirit and spiritual do.

Being spiritual implies the exisitence of spirit which is not in line with

atheism.

 

This does key into the semantics of "spirit" though.  I can see what you are

saying if spirit is not taken literally as in school spirit or the like.

The adjective that usually would correspond in this case though is spirited

rather than spiritual.

 

 

this is on the beaten path:

 

you cannot base spirituality upon its dictionary definition: there is

a much deeper and profound connotation to spirit: some consider it

soul: very few christians i know have "spirit" or are "spiritual" yet

they base their entire lives upon belief in spiritual existence: its

something which is felt not necessarily something which is known: j.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 19:30:40 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Subject:      Re: 90's Soul (was Re: Beat Fad)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Tyson Ouellette wrote:

<snip>

>    something to think about: was watching the national news tonight,

 

> the female reporter was smiling as she reported on the upcoming

> execution of a man this evening and a brand new execution chamber being

> built in the state that the execution is taking place in.  am i in the

> minority in being severely disturbed by this?

 

Bubbleheaded bleach blonde comes on at 5:00

Tell you bout  a plane crash with a gleam in her eye.

 

Give us dirty laundry.

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:47:21 -0600

Reply-To:     cawilkie@comic.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>

Subject:      Re: re; beat fad thang and a word from gen-x

Comments: To: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Patricia Elliott wrote:

>

> Cathy Wilkie wrote:

>

> > in the cosmic huge scheme of things, if you were meant to be born then,

> > you would have been.  There's a purpose for your being here now.

> >

> > and i must ramble on....

> >

> > cathy

> cathy are you sure of this? i always doubted this part of the whole

> cosmic thing.  I was walking along a beach with zippy the other day

> talking about how my body has been transported into a 50 year old fat

> womans body to help me adjust to the 90's time continuim.  so if you are

> sure i will transport back into the 32 year olds body, but i was pretty

> certain that this configuation was to help me write. gee.

> love

> p

 

 

 

 

Patricia:

 

wow, that must be scary when that sort of thing happens...

 

Seriously though, after reading all your posts, and especially the ones

dealing with William, I am convinced that you were born at the right

time....

 

cathy

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 19:50:45 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: 90's Soul (was Re: Beat Fad)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

 

> Bubbleheaded bleach blonde comes on at 5:00

> Tell you bout  a plane crash with a gleam in her eye.

>

> Give us dirty laundry.

>

 

wonderfull couplet , bentz!i recall the 'dirty laundry' ref. deep in burnt

out synapses....

mc

 

> --

>

> Peace,

>

> Bentz

> bocelts@scsn.net

> http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 20:08:47 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Donahue <donahujl@BC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: the italian judge

In-Reply-To:  <3.0.1.32.19971119204507.00689554@pop.gpnet.it>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

rinaldo,

thank you for your help.  this is certainly going to

be helpful.  although i doubt i can get the info

anytime soon (i know what its like getting archival

stuff from overseas), i will certainly get it.  and i

appreciate your help, not just for my "lesson plans,"

but this will also hep me to more fully appreciate the

novel not just as a work of art but as a piece of

cultural stimulus.

its just too bad i dont study italian (but i have the

means to get it translated), because i will b studying

translation theory in the fall (in an MA program), and

this would certainly be a fertile ground for study.

(ill just have to keep it in mind...)

again, thank you.

jim donahue

 

On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

 

> At 22.08 18/11/97 -0800, jim donahue wrote:

> >hey list,

> >as much fun as ive been having reading, responding,

> >and learning, there is just too much going on.

> >but before i sign off again (inevitably to return, as

> >before), i have a question.

> >i teach a writing seminar, and i am restructuring my

> >section on audience: intended vs. actual, implied vs.

> >overt.  i am using kerouacs "letter to an italian

> >judge" and the "subterraneans."  part of the

> >assignment will involve what exactly kerouac could be

> >responding to.  this is partly because i do not have a

> >copy of the judges response.  if anyone out there

> >knows where i might get a copy, i would appreciate it.

> >i know i have asked this question before (for those

> >who remember), but i thought id ask again before

> >taking a break from the list.

> >i can be responded to either through the list or at

> >donahujl@moa.bc.edu

> >thank youfor any help, guidance, or direction anyone

> >may be able to provide.

> >jim donahue

> >

> jim,

> i've noticed time ago yr request, and i cannot resist now

> to give you some info (but i'm not sure if it's useful).

> what i'm writing isn't any scholar notes but only some fragmented

> (johnny mnemonic piece of memories d/loaded...)

>

> the "The Subterraneans" was out in Usa in 1958 (Grove Press, NY)

> Kerouac was helped by Joyce Johnson to publish the novel.

>

> in italy the novel was out in november 1960 and the publisher

> was Giangiacomo Feltrinelli, and translated by an ANONYMOUS.

>

> Feltrinelli was an ultraleftist (friend to Che Guevara).

> immediately the "Subterraneans" was charged for obscenity but

> in the end the italian judge senteced that the novel wasn't

> pornographic but artistic work.

>

> the "Subterraneans" (I sotterranei, in italian) translated by

> an anonymous italian translator indicates that the novel was

> not square. Because "Giangiacomo Feltrinelli Editore Milano" has

> head office in Milan (italy) may be you can get in touch with

> Feltrinelli Editore (Giangiacomo died in a bomb explosion in 1972).

>

> the Feltrinelli's lawyers of course have a dossier about the

> lawsuit dated in 1960. you can also contact the "Procura Della

> Repubblica Di Milano" in Milan (Italy) where every document of

> any lawsuit is archived. Any sentence of the italian judge is here.

>

> the "The Subterraneans" (I Sotterranei) was prefaced by Henry Miller

> and introduction by Fernanda Pivano.

>

> the march 97 the 21th edition has on the cover a painting by

> Tom Wsselmann, Great American Nude#54, 1964., Neue Galerie,

> Aachen, Germany, 1992.

>

> i hope to help a little your research...

> i miei migliori auguri per il tuo lavoro,

> Rinaldo.

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 20:32:33 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Subject:      Re: 90's Soul (was Re: Beat Fad)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Yes, it was one of Don Hendley's (sp?) better jobs of writing.  The only one I

can think of that I like better was Boys of Summer.

 

I saw a Dead Head sticker on a Cadallic

A little voice inside my head said don't look back,

 

Marie Countryman wrote:

 

> R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

>

> > Bubbleheaded bleach blonde comes on at 5:00

> > Tell you bout  a plane crash with a gleam in her eye.

> >

> > Give us dirty laundry.

> >

>

> wonderfull couplet , bentz!i recall the 'dirty laundry' ref. deep in burnt

> out synapses....

> mc

>

> > --

> >

> > Peace,

> >

> > Bentz

> > bocelts@scsn.net

> > http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

 

 

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 19:46:36 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      The BeatGeneration and post-Nagasaki Literature

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

At some point in August i referred to William S. Burroughs as the Bard

of the post-Hiroshima age.  But since then i have thought perhaps

post-Nagasaki bard is more fitting.  The horror of national ego in the

very idea of the darkside of the atomic age is probably a footnote with

regard to the blast at Hiroshima as the irrationality in choosing the

second bombing at Nagasaki is one of the most terrifying of terrors one

can fathom.  And born from this terror is a new literature from a

generation in permanent exile from living as the experience of life has

been imploded by scientists to the point of the invisible mechanical

elements completely absence of any feeling at all and its birth of the

inevitable creature of such thoughts a monster that explodes the visible

world from the sources of the invisible discoveries.  Such a darkness

sends an entire generation in exile from the sources of its connections

to the land and to the culture.

 

This exile is an attempt to regenerate perhaps from the moving away a

moving toward a new America divorced from these dark invisible forces --

a literature of the visions of the road, of the visions of the city

streets and sounds.  A regenerating beginning in the beaten and leading

to a new spirit of awakening -- a culture that goes behind the backdrop

of the Nagasakian impulse finding truth in everyday kicks, everyday

joys, everyday darknesses ---- in the art of living -- and art blinded

by the scientistic division of living into objects in a microscope or an

explosion.

 

This regenerative spirit can be traced in the highs of the Beat

Generation Literature, the point of exile can be found in explicit and

implicit references along the various roads and visions of the

literature and the lives of those affected to the bone by reading these

words.

 

And so where are we now?  40 years on the road of exile - and

regenerations upon regenerations falling upon one another as the exiled

from the exiled point towards other exiles and all are blinded from the

the regenerating hope that exile creates in the first instance.

 

We beat nostalgically for beatific and beaten memories -- we create our

own memories and paint graffiti over the memories of the regenerating

exiles that come before.  What are we looking for?  Will we find it in

nostalgia in rebellion from the rebels in dreams or in the latest book

of letters?

 

I don't know.  I really don't know.  I hope y'all do!!!

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 21:07:30 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>

Subject:      links to Kerouac and beat websites

 

hello

 

The following is a webpage I put together that has websites related to

Kerouac and the beats. If you know of one I did not add, please let me know

<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/kerouaczin/links.html">http://members.aol.com/

kerouaczin/links.html</A>

 

enjoy, Attila

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 20:05:52 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      The Irony of the Profane

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

And so we sit at our computer keyboards and peck words to each other in

a year marking the third to the last of a millenium in a generation

labeled by the third to the last of the English Alphabet.

 

The identity of the Present is the third from the last and that is about

as common a root as the exiled seem to find in the few moments when the

exiled find time to stop playing king of the molehill over who is the

bestest of the exiled.  And not much in common does this Present find in

these last thirds -- these thirds of alphabets and of years.

 

The viruses of words and time have perhaps replaced the viruses of atoms

and chemicals --- but the standards of the profane in the society from

which the exiles are all separated remain fairly stable.  The irony of

this stability stabs to the heart of things some times.  That the living

within and embracing the culture of the post-Nagasaki impulse can

maintain the same senses of profanity in "dirty words" and "naughty

deeds" despite the huge alteration in the notion of profanity created by

the imploding and exploding of the atom baffles the mind at times.  But

what can one really do but laugh at the nonsense of it -- the cries

against television violence as a disaster in need of controls when the

culture crying out still embraces the elemental violence of fissionary

violence.

 

We must laugh and we must laugh in both brightness and darkness.

Sometimes it is a hysterical laughter at the senselessness one faces in

the decision of whether to read On the Road one more time or go outside

to scan the stars -- both activities either a quest for paths out of

senselessness or distractions momentary at best from the senselessness.

And either seems a great idea -- as long as we laugh, especially at

ourselves, but at the rest of the mysteries around us as well.

 

But these are just letters hitting a particular keyboard on a Wednesday

evening somewhere in the middle of America in the third to the last year

of the millenium.

 

<the typist walks to the bedroom and puts "Breakthrough in the Grey

Room" in the boombox laughing all the way>

 

happy thanksgiving thoughts,

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 19:54:24 -0700

Reply-To:     saras@sisna.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sara Straw <saras@SISNA.COM>

Organization: SaraGRAPHICS

Subject:      Re: The BeatGeneration and post-Nagasaki Literature

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Jeez, Nagasaki happened.... it's in the past... get over it, and get on

with it.  The future can only be progressive if you are willing to

progress... dwelling is romantic, but not progressive.  But maybe I'm an

old grumpy head...

sara

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 22:16:43 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>

Subject:      Re: The BeatGeneration and post-Nagasaki Literature

In-Reply-To:  <3473A660.2F5F@sisna.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

> Jeez, Nagasaki happened.... it's in the past... get over it, and get on

> with it.  The future can only be progressive if you are willing to

> progress... dwelling is romantic, but not progressive.  But maybe I'm an

> old grumpy head...

 

Progressive does not necessarily denote progress.  And as we all know,

progress does not necessarily mean good.  The guilt and responsibilty of

the deaths at Hiroshima and Nagasaki is on the head of every American.

The guilt and responsibility of everything that has occured out of those

terrible points belongs with every citizen of a country that calls itself

any sort of leader or player in the global cultural landscape.  They

cannot be forgotten.  Just as anyone who ignores suffering and injustice

because it happens somewhere else in the world carries with them a

responsibility  for and to the victims of the Holocaust.

 

------------------

Alex Howard  (704)264-8259                    Appalachian State University

kh14586@am.appstate.edu                       P.O. Box 12149

http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586             Boone, NC  28608

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Nov 1997 03:19:35 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Shani St.John" <lawlaw1@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac ads

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Eric Lytle

Sent:   Wednesday, November 19, 1997 12:00 PM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Re: Kerouac ads

 

Bill Gargan wrote:

 

> Frankly, I enjoy the Kerouac ads and I think that they can only help

> attract new readers to Kerouac's work.    Sure, it's somewhat ironic

> that a writer who was basically anti-materialistic is being used by

> Madison Avenue to sell things but life is funny sometimes.   If some

> of

> those customers become readers and begin to question the values that

> Madison Avenue promotes that's all to the good.  As far as the estate

> making money on the deal, I hope they make a lot.  That way they may

> be

> able to afford to sell the archives to a library at a price the

> library

> can afford.

 

    I agree.  I probably wouldn't have taken such an interest in the

Beats without little hints about them in the popular culture.  The

Beastie Boys have a lyric about ...reading On The Road by my man Jack

Kerouac,  poetry in motion ....  which undoubtedly perked my interest in

the book.   I certainly didn't get any direction from the high school

teachers and college professors.   If there weren't any images out

there,  they might eventually be forgotten.

    Sometimes an ad is just an ad.  I don't think Einstein's theories

have been cheapened by an image of him wearing khakis.  Maybe we should

feel honored that the Gap has decided to market pants to us.  After

all,  we wear pants too.

 

-E

 

 

I feel that you bring up a very good point.  But, I think the line in the song

was kind of a tribute.  Whereas the feeling I get from the GAP ad is

different.  Their intent was not to make an artistic statement, or celebrate

Kerouac's life and work.  It was a coldcalculated attempt to hook certain

segments of the public into buying their clothes.  Their motivation was purely

and simply money.  They don't care that this contradicts everything Jack

believed in. They reduce his memory to a marketing strategy. I don't know,

maybe it will generate interest.  In fact it probably will.  But interest in

what?  Kerouac's art, or his status as "Beat King."

Sorry . . .I'm venting.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Nov 1997 03:39:14 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Shani St.John" <lawlaw1@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Beat fad?

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Jennifer Thompson

Sent:   Wednesday, November 19, 1997 1:49 PM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Re: Beat fad?

 

On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Shani St.John wrote:

 

> What is at the root of the resurgence of interest in Beat culture and

> literature?

> Is it  just a fad?

>

>

> Shani

>

it depends on the generation buying the books now.  if it's the gen-xers,

of which i am an early member, then i think it's the grunge/kurt cobain

?philosophy? that is compatible w/ beat thinking.  we seem to be an entire

generation of misfits with an axe to grind.  in these days of school

prayer vs. court cases featuring atheists we're looking for spiritual

awakening.  hence the "new age" phenomena.  instead of responding to the

A-bomb threat, and later reality, we're facing national terrorism.

instead of political activism, we're entrenched in political apathy.  so

it seems that we're returning or finding kerouac, ginsberg, burroughs, et.

al for a resurrgence of lost values and insight in order to foster a new

creative era.  what will our generation of literature be deemed?  one can

only hope that the critics will not refer to it as x-lit, but as something

beat inspired with our generation's fresh perspective.

 

jenn

 

 

Thanks for that.  I definitely agree with you.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 23:34:27 -0600

Reply-To:     cawilkie@comic.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>

Subject:      public executions and the media

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> Subject:

>         Re: 90's Soul (was Re: Beat Fad)

>   Date:

>         Wed, 19 Nov 1997 08:42:17 -0800

>   From:

>         Eric Lytle <e.lytle@CED.UTAH.EDU>

>

 

>

>

>     The talking heads don't usually take the time to examine what

> they're saying.  Those teleprompters sure do move fast.   I'm pretty

> sure the reporter has that smile pasted on all the time.

>     Last year,  here in Utah,  they happily reported on the first firing

> squad execution in ages.  We got all the grisly details nightly for a

> week.  A real feel-good story.

>

> -E

 

 

 

 

and because of things like that, that is why i, who graduated with a

b.a. in journalism, did not go into the media business...

 

cathy

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Nov 1997 01:50:51 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac ads

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 03:19 AM 11/20/97 UT, you wrote:

>----------

>From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Eric Lytle

>Sent:   Wednesday, November 19, 1997 12:00 PM

>To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>Subject:        Re: Kerouac ads

>

 

>I feel that you bring up a very good point.  But, I think the line in the song

>was kind of a tribute.  Whereas the feeling I get from the GAP ad is

>different.  Their intent was not to make an artistic statement, or celebrate

>Kerouac's life and work.  It was a coldcalculated attempt to hook certain

>segments of the public into buying their clothes.  Their motivation was purely

>and simply money.  They don't care that this contradicts everything Jack

>believed in. They reduce his memory to a marketing strategy. I don't know,

>maybe it will generate interest.  In fact it probably will.  But interest in

>what?  Kerouac's art, or his status as "Beat King."

>Sorry . . .I'm venting.

>

>

>

So here's the antidote ad, sneaked on the air by guerilla video

men tampering with big media's satellite feeds:

 

Both Kerouac  and Neal Cassady, clad in khakis for the Gap are

boosting a '49 mercury from a parking lot in Kansas city circa

1951.  Sal and Dean are pushing the car down a slight incline.

Dean dives in the driver's side to  hot wire it,

Sal silently steer-pushes the coupe from the lot.  The motor

coughs to life, the two beats flash smiles; Success! they

roar away. In the  fading dual exhaust smoke, an announcer

purrs:  "The Gap..., the difference between what's really

true and what they're trying to put over on us this time..!"

 

(Camera dollies up and out leaving THE GAP label full-screen)

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Nov 1997 05:39:15 -0800

Reply-To:     Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: The BeatGeneration and post-Nagasaki Literature

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Alex,

 

I can follow you along in your concern to have a safer world. I do believe

with you that better solutions for the suffering and injustice anywhere in

the world will be found after more people become more concerned about it.

 

I think there is a big difference between being concerned and being

responsible. I don't think that people whose influence did not reach the

perpetrators of the holocaust are responsible for what was done to me there.

 

I know I can't speak for the vast majority of my family who did not survive

the holocaust, or even for others who like myself did survive it. I can tell

you that I cringe when I see fingers pointed at people who are not

responsible but are vulnerable to self recrimination. The world is too large

for me to reach everywhere. Yes I expect to ignore things that go on

anywhere else, if by else you mean places that are too far away from me to

know for sure what's going on there, let alone know what to do about it. I

don't have to look very far for that.

 

There are lots and lots of things that happen right in my community that are

beyond my ability to know or to influence. I am concerned about the

homelessness in my community, I don't feel responsible for it. I wish I

understood more clearly what I could do about it. To get approval or

condemnation from righteosly concerned fellow citizens is quite easy. It is

more difficult to actually know how to really ameliorate the suffering,

inspite of many well meaning concerned people who think I am responsible to

do what they think is right because they believe their theories are correct.

 

I know you only mean to nudge folks to not run away from pain that is not

reaching them (yet) in person; to take more responsibility for their

inaction as well as for their action. I can see that awareness of the

avoidable suffering everywhere is a positive force that will help in time.

 

I am not sure that feeling responsible for what is beyond my reach helps

anything. After I assume responsibility for what I can't change, I am closer

to feeling guilt, shame, impotent, all quite heavily loaded factors. Loaded

in the wrong direction.

leon

 

.EDU>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Wednesday, November 19, 1997 7:16 PM

Subject: Re: The BeatGeneration and post-Nagasaki Literature

 

 

Just as anyone who ignores suffering and injustice

>because it happens somewhere else in the world carries with them a

>responsibility  for and to the victims of the Holocaust.

>

>------------------

>Alex Howard  (704)264-8259                    Appalachian State University

>kh14586@am.appstate.edu                       P.O. Box 12149

>http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586             Boone, NC  28608

>.-

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Nov 1997 09:10:03 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac ads

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

bravo!

mc

 

Mike Rice wrote:

 

> So here's the antidote ad, sneaked on the air by guerilla video

> men tampering with big media's satellite feeds:

>

> Both Kerouac  and Neal Cassady, clad in khakis for the Gap are

> boosting a '49 mercury from a parking lot in Kansas city circa

> 1951.  Sal and Dean are pushing the car down a slight incline.

> Dean dives in the driver's side to  hot wire it,

> Sal silently steer-pushes the coupe from the lot.  The motor

> coughs to life, the two beats flash smiles; Success! they

> roar away. In the  fading dual exhaust smoke, an announcer

> purrs:  "The Gap..., the difference between what's really

> true and what they're trying to put over on us this time..!"

>

> (Camera dollies up and out leaving THE GAP label full-screen)

>

> Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Nov 1997 07:19:09 -0700

Reply-To:     saras@sisna.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sara Straw <saras@SISNA.COM>

Organization: SaraGRAPHICS

Subject:      Re: The BeatGeneration and post-Nagasaki Literature

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Sorry, I don't take responsibility for Nagasaki.  Assuming guilt from

the past is a christian theme, and I am an atheist.  I don't say forget

the past, but to burden oneself with a heavy load of undeserved guilt is

neurotic, not helpful.  Each person must make a decision as to how they

will live life, hopefully with enough knowledge of the past to make some

better choices.  We're only human.

sara

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Nov 1997 07:06:35 -0800

Reply-To:     Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: The BeatGeneration and post-Nagasaki Literature

Comments: To: saras@sisna.com

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Sarah,

 

I am not sure what atheist beliefs really are. Do you know what's going on

in the beyond?

 

I am with you totally about  your rejecting undeserved guilt, or accepting

responsibility for powers that you don't have. I do question though when you

too  have an idea about what others must do.

 

When you tell me that I must make a decision, i say wait a moment, maybe I

don't have to do that at all. Does everyone live their lives according to

some decision they make about it? Do you really believe that?

 

Something inside me tells me to watch out whenever I am told what I must do.

 

leon

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Sara Straw <saras@sisna.com>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Thursday, November 20, 1997 6:20 AM

Subject: Re: The BeatGeneration and post-Nagasaki Literature

 

 

>Sorry, I don't take responsibility for Nagasaki.  Assuming guilt from

>the past is a christian theme, and I am an atheist.  I don't say forget

>the past, but to burden oneself with a heavy load of undeserved guilt is

>neurotic, not helpful.  Each person must make a decision as to how they

>will live life, hopefully with enough knowledge of the past to make some

>better choices.  We're only human.

>sara

>.-

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Nov 1997 10:30:02 -0500

Reply-To:     "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac ads

 

Reply to message from lawlaw1@CLASSIC.MSN.COM of         Thu, 20 Nov 1997

 03:19:35 UT

 

>

>I feel that you bring up a very good point.  But, I think the line in the song

>was kind of a tribute.  Whereas the feeling I get from the GAP ad is

>different.  Their intent was not to make an artistic statement, or celebrate

>Kerouac's life and work.  It was a coldcalculated attempt to hook certain

>segments of the public into buying their clothes.  Their motivation was purely

>and simply money.  They don't care that this contradicts everything Jack

>believed in. They reduce his memory to a marketing strategy. I don't know,

>maybe it will generate interest.  In fact it probably will.  But interest in

>what?  Kerouac's art, or his status as "Beat King."

>Sorry . . .I'm venting.

 

But we see those adds with our beloved Kerouac, and even though their

origins may have been for money, _we_ see those adds in a different light.

And those of us who have saved a copy and have it hanging somewhere, well,

in a way we've turned that add into a tribute too, haven't we? So it can't

be all bad.

 

 

Diane.

 

--

"This is Beat.  Live your lives out?  Naw, _love_ your lives out!"

                                                        --Jack Kerouac

Diane Marie Homza

ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Nov 1997 10:51:05 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: 90's Soul (was Re: Beat Fad)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

saras@sisna.com,.Internet writes:

>You know, I personally don't have a problem with the crass superficial

>bludgeoning of the TV mode.... It's called "freedom of speech"... The

>problem lies with the way humans HANDLE what they are exposed to.  Now,

>how do we fix THAT?

 

     my problem isn't with the fact that it's being presented, but the

manner in which it is done and accepted; the fact that she was grinning

at the deliberate cessation of life.  makes me wonder what's happening

in our heads, is compassion dead?  you know, we don't live in a true

democracy despite what bullshit we're fed, we live in part democracy

part oligarchy, and we increasingly approach fascist doctrine in which

laws are imposed upon the individual spirit in total neglect of it for

an imagined betterment of the whole, which won't happen as long as

people are unhappy with being forced to live their lives in certain

ways.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Nov 1997 10:59:38 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: Beat fad?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

For some reason we have overlooked one thing about this "fad".

>The "Beat" writers wrote good books.

>That is the main reason.

 

     i don't think it is, i mean i agree that they wrote god books, but

there are so many genres out there of wonderful lit, of which we caught

a glimpse in the great novel discussion.  while it is a key factor to

the posterity of any lit work, i don't think it's the main reason for

the resurgence..

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Nov 1997 10:53:53 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: 90's Soul (was Re: Beat Fad)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

>also, i've noticed that the tv news shows are  advertising

>for themselves these days ..."tune in tomorrow and learn something we

>could have told you today, but then we'd have no hook to grap you

>with...eeeeccchhhh

 

      right, and the way they run ads featuring the reporters trying to

give them wholesome human elements, etc.. they try to sell these

people... it's become about the reporters and not what's being

reported.  it's presentation not content, and, despite my always saying

it's not what you write it's how you write it, that's no entirely true

in the realm of news, because it is the occurence that is important

primarily, not looking good in front of a camera.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:01:00 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Stephen Eickele Voss <svoss@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU>

Subject:      Kerouac Gap Ad

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

In regard to all that's been said of Kerouac's image appearing in the gap

ad, I found this in an interview with Ginsberg:

 

Q. One more Kerouac question. There's a Gap ad with a picture of him

     that says, "Kerouac wore khakis." Any idea how he would have felt

     about that?

 

 I don't know if he would have liked it, really. He didn't sign up for

that, his family did. I signed up for one. I refused to for a long while,

but then I had a lightbulb in my head, and on the side of every ad it

says, "All monies from this ad go to the Jack Kerouac School of Poetics at

Naropa Institute." So that was a Buddhist way of turning waste to treasure.

 

It's from http://www.tvguide.com/tv/poetry/ginsberg.htm

 

-Steve Voss

www.beatcafe.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Nov 1997 08:14:49 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac ads

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>----------

>From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Eric Lytle

>Sent:   Wednesday, November 19, 1997 12:00 PM

>To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>Subject:        Re: Kerouac ads

>

>Bill Gargan wrote:

>

>> Frankly, I enjoy the Kerouac ads and I think that they can only help

>> attract new readers to Kerouac's work.    Sure, it's somewhat ironic

>> that a writer who was basically anti-materialistic is being used by

>> Madison Avenue to sell things but life is funny sometimes.   If some

>> of

>> those customers become readers and begin to question the values that

>> Madison Avenue promotes that's all to the good.  As far as the estate

>> making money on the deal, I hope they make a lot.  That way they may

>> be

>> able to afford to sell the archives to a library at a price the

>> library

>> can afford.

>

>    I agree.  I probably wouldn't have taken such an interest in the

>Beats without little hints about them in the popular culture.  The

>Beastie Boys have a lyric about ...reading On The Road by my man Jack

>Kerouac,  poetry in motion ....  which undoubtedly perked my interest in

>the book.   I certainly didn't get any direction from the high school

>teachers and college professors.   If there weren't any images out

>there,  they might eventually be forgotten.

>    Sometimes an ad is just an ad.  I don't think Einstein's theories

>have been cheapened by an image of him wearing khakis.  Maybe we should

>feel honored that the Gap has decided to market pants to us.  After

>all,  we wear pants too.

>

>-E

>

>

>I feel that you bring up a very good point.  But, I think the line in the song

>was kind of a tribute.  Whereas the feeling I get from the GAP ad is

>different.  Their intent was not to make an artistic statement, or celebrate

>Kerouac's life and work.  It was a coldcalculated attempt to hook certain

>segments of the public into buying their clothes.  Their motivation was purely

>and simply money.

 

 

Yeah, Paul's Boutique was a good recording.  I remember that line and

appreciated it.  I'd all ready been into to kerouac and it was good to

learn that there were kindred spirits.

 

And amazingly the beastie boys gave this record away as they didn;t want

people to feel hooked into buying it just so they could make money.

 

 

 

They don't care that this contradicts everything Jack

>believed in. They reduce his memory to a marketing strategy. I don't know,

>maybe it will generate interest.  In fact it probably will.  But interest in

>what?  Kerouac's art, or his status as "Beat King."

>Sorry . . .I'm venting.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:11:08 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: re beat fad spiritual atheism

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

>How can an atheist be spiritual?  I understand how spirit and the

>supreme

>being do not necessarily have to go together but spirit and spiritual

>do.

>Being spiritual implies the exisitence of spirit which is not in line

>with

>atheism.

 

     because all atheism states is the absence of a belief in a

godhead, period.  now, atheism is as much a trap as any other ism but i

won't get into that.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:09:24 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: Kerouac in advertisement

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

>Turn OFF yr fucking tee-vee, put down that slick stupid magazine and

>PICK UP

>A BOOK, why don'tcha?

 

     well, yeah, i guess i should just forget what's going on all

around me and submerse myself in books.  you know, that's what all the

great writers have done, ignore what's around them... that'd be healthy

for me.. we all know how jack never did anything or paid attention to

the grand situation around him, that he locked himself indoors all his

life and scorned any type of non-book media...  get real, man.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:15:00 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: re; beat fad thang and a word from gen-x

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

cawilkie@comic.net,.Internet writes:

>First the music thing:  it's entirely subjective.  what we listen to is

>entirely our own choice, and different songs speak to different people

>in different ways.

 

     partly wrong.  an example: a friend of mine was in Mexico and

heard the Macarena way before t came out here.. and he got a copy of

the album and played it a lot when he was back here and all these

people who heard it asked what this crap was.  then it becomes hot as

hell.  and now it's collectively made fun of.  i think we have a

serious case of sheepness here; there are MANY people who listen to

what Rolling Stone and MTV tell them is cool.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Nov 1997 09:22:20 -0700

Reply-To:     saras@sisna.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sara Straw <saras@SISNA.COM>

Organization: SaraGRAPHICS

Subject:      Re: 90's Soul (was Re: Beat Fad)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Tyson,

It's a big world, bud, with lots of assholes in it.  Those on death row,

and those on Madison Avenue, and those living down the street.  Be

idealistic, but don't expect the world to come along... as long as there

are assholes in the world, they are gonna screw it up.  Not only that,

shit happens regardless of assholes.  Complaining about government has

only one logical conclusion... get in there and run for office!

SHOW us what you are talking about!

Go Tyson!

saraTyson Ouellette wrote:

>

> saras@sisna.com,.Internet writes:

> >You know, I personally don't have a problem with the crass superficial

> >bludgeoning of the TV mode.... It's called "freedom of speech"... The

> >problem lies with the way humans HANDLE what they are exposed to.  Now,

> >how do we fix THAT?

>

>      my problem isn't with the fact that it's being presented, but the

> manner in which it is done and accepted; the fact that she was grinning

> at the deliberate cessation of life.  makes me wonder what's happening

> in our heads, is compassion dead?  you know, we don't live in a true

> democracy despite what bullshit we're fed, we live in part democracy

> part oligarchy, and we increasingly approach fascist doctrine in which

> laws are imposed upon the individual spirit in total neglect of it for

> an imagined betterment of the whole, which won't happen as long as

> people are unhappy with being forced to live their lives in certain

> ways.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:43:20 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Kerouac Commemorative on Lowell Phone Book Cover

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Yes, our city phone directory for Lowell has a slapdash version of the Jack

Kerouac Commemorative on its cover which just came out for November 1997 to

October 1998. You've come a long way Jack! Paul of TKQ...

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Nov 1997 08:24:56 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac ads

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>At 03:19 AM 11/20/97 UT, you wrote:

>>----------

>>From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Eric Lytle

>>Sent:   Wednesday, November 19, 1997 12:00 PM

>>To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>>Subject:        Re: Kerouac ads

>>

>

>>I feel that you bring up a very good point.  But, I think the line in the song

>>was kind of a tribute.  Whereas the feeling I get from the GAP ad is

>>different.  Their intent was not to make an artistic statement, or celebrate

>>Kerouac's life and work.  It was a coldcalculated attempt to hook certain

>>segments of the public into buying their clothes.  Their motivation was purely

>>and simply money.  They don't care that this contradicts everything Jack

>>believed in. They reduce his memory to a marketing strategy. I don't know,

>>maybe it will generate interest.  In fact it probably will.  But interest in

>>what?  Kerouac's art, or his status as "Beat King."

>>Sorry . . .I'm venting.

>>

>>

>>

>So here's the antidote ad, sneaked on the air by guerilla video

>men tampering with big media's satellite feeds:

>

>Both Kerouac  and Neal Cassady, clad in khakis for the Gap are

>boosting a '49 mercury from a parking lot in Kansas city circa

>1951.  Sal and Dean are pushing the car down a slight incline.

>Dean dives in the driver's side to  hot wire it,

>Sal silently steer-pushes the coupe from the lot.  The motor

>coughs to life, the two beats flash smiles; Success! they

>roar away. In the  fading dual exhaust smoke, an announcer

>purrs:  "The Gap..., the difference between what's really

>true and what they're trying to put over on us this time..!"

>

>(Camera dollies up and out leaving THE GAP label full-screen)

>

>Mike Rice

 

Re-read On the Road and Sal's feelings about Dean's Car stealing when they

were together and you might re-evaluate who is trying to "put one over over

time"

 

 

Personally I couldn't care less about the gap or these gap ads.  Who cares.

We don't own Jack kerouac anyhow so what is it to us.

 

I think the ads were nice because it was a good picture.  If someone wanted

a picture of kerouac they could have trimmed off the Gap part.

 

I also think kerouac would have done ads if he were alive.  Burroughs did

shoe ads.  Ginsberg did the Khaki ads and he was alive.

 

Nothing wrong with pants.

 

And Mike, I must add, nice mise en scene.  Led Zeppellin's when the levy

breaks should be the background muzak for this commercial.  It will be for

a Mercedes Benz.  Kerouac and cassady had such great taste that they wanted

to steal a Mercedres.

 

gesundheit.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Nov 1997 08:29:00 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: The BeatGeneration and post-Nagasaki Literature

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

I have a question.

 

Do you think these American attitudes (I'm referring to the anti-bombing

sentiment presented in this thread) about bombing Nagasaki and Hiroshima

would be different if it was two German cities that were bombed?

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Nov 1997 08:34:54 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: re beat fad spiritual atheism

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>>How can an atheist be spiritual?  I understand how spirit and the

>>supreme

>>being do not necessarily have to go together but spirit and spiritual

>>do.

>>Being spiritual implies the exisitence of spirit which is not in line

>>with

>>atheism.

>

>     because all atheism states is the absence of a belief in a

>godhead, period.  now, atheism is as much a trap as any other ism but i

>won't get into that.

 

No. It would also disclude polytheism as well.

 

As I know it and lived atheism is a disbelief in any aspect of the

supernatural including a belief in spirit or souls or gods or God.

 

I believe this is the most common views and belief systems of atheists.

 

You are saying an animist can be atheist.  I don't agree at all in that one

cannot differentiate irrational beliefs in spirits or Gods.  All these

beliefs fall under an atheistic umbrella that holds the physical world is

all there is.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Nov 1997 10:42:29 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: The BeatGeneration and post-Nagasaki Literature

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:

>

> I have a question.

>

> Do you think these American attitudes (I'm referring to the anti-bombing

> sentiment presented in this thread) about bombing Nagasaki and Hiroshima

> would be different if it was two German cities that were bombed?

 

well i guess i should come clean about my "attitudes" in this thread.  i

was sick to death of writer's block.  i'd tried some things and things

weren't working.  i had been re-arranging my books some and as i was

moving a book with an essay about Hiroshima by Norman Cousins i

remembered that Arthur (no longer on the list) had said he liked the

post-Hiroshima bard phrase so i just sat down and started punching keys

-- which is how i usually write/type things.  and that is what came

out.

i've been laughing at the thread and at myself because i had no

intention of the thread going this way at all.  i thought perhaps there

might be comments about Corso's bomb poem or some of Ginsberg's poems

along these lines or any number of WSB's writings and it got into this

whole guilt thing .....

 

which led me to the conclusion that my attempt to break out of writer's

block was a dismal failure!!!!

 

hope you're all having happy days.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 20 Nov 1997 12:22:14 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         You_Be Fine <AngelMindz@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac in advertisement

 

In a message dated 97-11-20 12:12:52 EST, Tyson wrote:

 

<<  we all know how jack never did anything or paid attention to

 the grand situation around him, that he locked himself indoors all his

 life and scorned any type of non-book media...  get real, man.

  >>

 

Get real? That's what I'm talking about. Inane discussions about television

commercials and how cool they are ain't my idea of reality. Not that I'd do

"what jack did," but if I did, I'd spend a lot of time exploring the inner

universe, as well as hitting the road, and I'd be writing about that stuff,

not being sucked into some dumb teevee commercial where kids are encouraged

to AFFECT hipness in order to get sugary treats. Teevee can rot your brain.

It can even make you so dull you fail to see the point of what a person is

saying... man.

 



back