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Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 22:08:32 +0000
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From: randy royal
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Subject: Re: re beat fad spiritual atheism
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nice
law. it is very true and evident in the every church in
almost
every century but most evident when the catholic church
started celebrated christmas during winter
time to appease the
peasents.
>
formed, because they are resistant to change, also, my own slant here,
>
something conceived in an instant in time to become an ism is dated to
>
that time, and is outdated thereafter because of change. one of the
>
reasons that the many major religions that remain alive today are doing
> so
is because they've become flexible enough to adapt to change a morph
> as
necessary.
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 22:41:57 -0500
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From: You_Be Fine
<AngelMindz@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: big surLiSizeD without LSD
Let's
see if I can clarify what I believe:
I
believe jack kerouac was an alcoholic, and that it's the nature of an
alcoholic
not to be able to make the healthy choices required for changes.
This
belief of mine is highly personal, but I didn't get words to understand
or
describe it until I entered the world of 12-Step programs 12 years ago.
I
believe that jack was highly gifted, and furthermore, that he existed on a
higher
plane of consciousness than most people ever do.
I
believe the characters in Big Sur were all based on real people, and that
jack
describes them and their actions accurately, even though he was cracking
up.
I
believe Big Sur is autobiographical. I've never heard any information to
the
contrary, although I have heard jack quoted as saying it was
autobiographical.
I
follow the book quite literally, and with every paragraph, every page I
turn,
what he says makes more sense and rings more true.
Like
everyone, my affinity for a certain book is founded on my own
experience,
my own frame of reference. Because I've lived enough of the
events
in Big Sur, I find them all very believable, and jack's telling of
them
reasoned and illuminating.
To me,
this book is a masterpiece. I just re-read it on Saturday before
posting
my first comment to the list. I think I'll read it again, and of
course,
I'll be thinking of all your comments while I do.
But I'm
not at all comfortable with the idea that Big Sur should be seen as
literature,
as opposed to a case study in a nervous breakdown, lived and
recounted
by the one who experienced it.
Recently
I read Sombrero Fallout by Richard Brautigan, and in the main
subplot
(since there are about five plots, I think of them all as subplots,
but
then, I'm no scholar, and proud of that fact; just a reader) what I saw
was the
beginning of the end of Brautigan's life, or as Judith said about Big
Sur in
the first place, "It was like reading a suicide note." I believed
Brautigan
was foreshadowing his own suicide, and the fact that he did
ultimately
die violently at his own hand supports my belief, at least to me.
What he
went through was very familiar to me on a personal level (as a member
in good
standing of the Crack-up Club, along with David Rhaesa and some
others
too shy to talk about it).
Same
thing with jack and reading Big Sur. I don't see any reason why I should
look
for metaphor and all those painfully intellectual literary analyses (ew,
I'm so
smart) when the words he wrote are all right there in front of me, in
perfect
order, exactly as he meant for them to be read.
I
really believe (and I'm not suggesting anyone who's participated in this
discussion
so far falls into this description) that people are often so
uncomfortable
with "the lunatic ravings" of a holy man, because there is so
much
truth in them, that they need to retreat into rationalization, seeking
explanations
rather than taking what's there on face value.
That's
where I'm coming from. I don't try to figure jack out. I just let his
words
transport me there.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:05:53 -0500
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From: You_Be Fine
<AngelMindz@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: big surLiSizeD without LSD
In a
message dated 97-11-24 21:42:35 EST, DC wrote:
<<
I have read Big Sur. Twice. But given your interpretation, it does make
me wonder if we're reading the same
book. I do believe that Jack's
writing is true to what he saw happening in
his own mind. The middle to
end of the book is probably one of the best
written records ever of
delirium tremens. But with all your knowledge about alcoholism you fail
to see how someone writing in this state is
suffering from acute delirium
and paranoia. >>
What
can I tell you? My interpretation is mine, and yours is yours. I don't
know
much about delirium tremens (although I'm going to do some research
now),
but I don't think you just get them one night and then they go away.
The
DTs, in my limited education on that subject, are present in the latest
stages
of alcoholism, and it seems to me people don't experience them while
they
are drunk, but when alcohol is withdrawn. Of course, in deference to
your
comments, I will look for information on this subject so I can be better
informed.
And
yes, I believe "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic." Alcoholism
is a
disease
whose only cure is to quit drinking. But you're still an alcoholic
after
you quit, if you get lucky enough, and get enough strength to quit.
But you
failed to make your syllogism with your final "extrapolation" on this
subject.
I do believe people can change most things in their lives and
overcome
great trauma. There are things that are bigger and more powerful
than
many people, and alcoholism is one of those things. It is, as I stated,
a
disease, covered by most medical insurance plans. And it is fatal, as it
was in
jack's case, as it was in Dylan Thomas's case, as Marie mentioned
earlier,
as it is in so many cases.
I have
a little brother who's now dying of alcoholism. He's three years
younger
than me and he has two types of chronic hepatitis, an enlarged liver,
diabetes,
is blind in one eye, and was recently diagnosed with cancer of the
tongue.
He's had his license taken away a dozen times. He's had a dozen
accidents
while driving, most of which were hit-and-runs. He's lost a dozen
jobs, a
million friends, watched others die, ruined his life, been in
treatment
repeatedly, but guess what? He just can't quit drinking.
I've
known him since the day he was born, and I know this is not the life he
would
have chosen for himself. I used to get angry with him because I
believed
somehow that he was doing this on purpose. I cut him out of my life,
I
reported him to the police, I confiscated a gun from his house. But the
fact
that I had known him as a child, and had seen where he came from, and
finally
admitting I didn't understand alcoholism and needed to, made me come
to
believe that "if he could make any other choice, he would." If it
were
simply
a matter of choice, there would be no alcoholics in the world.
I stand
by what I believe, and I apply it to jack, and to all the other
alcoholics
in the world who lose the fight.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 15:15:53 +1000
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From: Duncan Gray
<duncang@ENTO.CSIRO.AU>
Subject: 'Last time I comitted suicide' reaches
Australia
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The
movie 'The last time I committed suicide' is available on video, in
Australia. I don't think any Cinema's showed it in
Australia.
------------------------------------------------------------------.o0
Duncan
Gray
Stored
Grain Research Laboratory
CSIRO
Entomology, GPO Box 1700, Canberra ACT 2601
Ph.
(06) 246 4178 Fax (06) 246 4202
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 22:16:48 -0600
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From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: big surLiSizeD without LSD
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You_Be
Fine wrote:
>
> I
believe the characters in Big Sur were all based on real people, and that
>
jack describes them and their actions accurately, even though he was cracking
>
up.
the
above comment makes no sense, i too, am not a scholar (but i am
neither
proud or ashamed, i never heard that it was that bad a field)
but i
am pretty sure that cracking up (been there done that) means that
what
your seeing often isn't what is happening. I find big sur to be a
good
read, with great value. But as I read it make me believe that it
isn't
an accurate reflection of what was before him but what was an
accurate
reflection of what he might of seen. Not that it isn't a dark
and
evil world to look at, it is just a little darker to those depressed
by
booze.
patricia
p
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 22:26:40 -0600
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: big surLiSizeD without LSD
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Patricia
Elliott wrote:
>
>
You_Be Fine wrote:
>
>
>
> I believe the characters in Big Sur were all based on real people, and
that
>
> jack describes them and their actions accurately, even though he was
cracking
>
> up.
>
>
the above comment makes no sense, i too, am not a scholar (but i am
>
neither proud or ashamed, i never heard that it was that bad a field)
>
but i am pretty sure that cracking up (been there done that) means that
>
what your seeing often isn't what is happening. I find big sur to be a
>
good read, with great value. But as I read it make me believe that it
>
isn't an accurate reflection of what was before him but what was an
>
accurate reflection of what he might of seen. Not that it isn't a dark
>
and evil world to look at, it is just a little darker to those depressed
> by
booze.
>
patricia
> p
this is
a very complicated thread and certainly requires the open-minded
considerations
of realities that i've found so wonderful about the
supportive
people on the list.
it
seems a question of perspective. the
reality of Jack's account and
the
reality of alternative readings or potentially of other characters
can ALL
be REAL. i once believed that in order
to get out of leather
straps
in a hospital i combined understandings from Kafka and Leary
notions
and became a horse and broke through the straps. the experience
was
REAL for me. But it is just as real for
me to believe the alternate
account
that after having passed out from any number of exhausting
influences
the straps were removed. Both are
REAL. Which happened is
one of
those trivial historical questions (oops letting my colours show
there a
bit concerning history!).
The
realm of experience and the mysteries behind Being are still so
complicated
that we cannot begin to understand them.
We have to find
beliefs
that work for us and be open-minded about other's beliefs as
well. But we need, i feel, to also guard against
letting our beliefs
(which
i've done many times) move from the range of belief into dogmas
that
destroy the entire sense of believing.
It
seems that this thread demonstrates the difficulty and complexity of
the
experiences many of us have been through and continue to go through
-- and
all our journeys are different -- and also, i think, shows a bit
of the
wonderful community that exists here in which these notions can
be
found in literature and tossed around and examined and thought about
and
interpreted sometimes changing our minds milliseconds after we
thought
our minds were made up. It is a lovely
group.
And
with that, i shift to digest and pack for Denver.
Happy
Thanksgiving y'all.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 20:40:14 -0800
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From: Levi Asher
<brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: big surLiSizeD without LSD
In-Reply-To: <347A5130.177B@sunflower.com> from
"Patricia Elliott" at Nov 24,
97 10:16:48 pm
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Patricia
Elliot wrote:
>
but i am pretty sure that cracking up (been there done that) means that
>
what your seeing often isn't what is happening. I find big sur to be a
>
good read, with great value. But as I read it make me believe that it
>
isn't an accurate reflection of what was before him but what was an
>
accurate reflection of what he might of seen. Not that it isn't a dark
>
and evil world to look at, it is just a little darker to those depressed
> by
booze.
Well,
in my opinion what Kerouac went through (in real life at Big
Sur) is
not that unusual. I think his greatness
lay not in the
fact
that he experienced this "breakdown" but rather that he
wrote
about it. It was his courage to tell
the truth that made
him
important, because the truths need to be told for society
to heal
itself. That's how I read his books: as
attempts to
spiritually
heal the world. Inspired by Jesus and
Buddha
(and
Emerson and Melville and Dostoevsky etc) ...
All of
which is just a segue for me to mention that my
new
piece about William S. Burroughs, featuring some excellent
words
posted to the BEAT-L by Patricia Elliott (this time I
spelled
it right) about his after-death ceremonies.
It's
called
Sliced Bardo and it's at:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/SlicedBardo/
Okay,
back to the discussion.
-------------------------------------------------------
| Levi
Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
|
|
|
| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (the beat literature web site) |
|
|
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at http://coffeehousebook.com |
|
|
|
*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---* |
|
|
| "When I was crazy, I thought you
were great" |
| -- Ric Ocasek |
-------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:01:37 -0600
Reply-To: cawilkie@comic.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cathy Wilkie
<cawilkie@COMIC.NET>
Subject: Re: new to the list
Comments:
To: VegasDaddy@AOL.COM
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>
Subject:
> Re: is this still beat-l?
> Date:
> Sun, 23 Nov 1997 02:20:04 -0500
> From:
> Anthony Celentano
<VegasDaddy@AOL.COM>
>
>
>
I'm new to the list, and I'm reading all this stuff about Gap ads and atheism
>
and semantics and potential topics etc etc, and I guess I expected more of a
>
discussion about actual Beat literature.
I mean, I could discuss the
>
pristine lyric of Corso's "Haarlem" or "Ode to Coit Tower"
forever, but all
>
this political business...I think that the wonderful thing about Jack Kerouac
>
was his essential political apathy, and I think that he would have been
>
amused at all this heated discussion about his image in the media. I think
>
it's wonderful when the Beat writers are being discussed at all, in any
>
vein...but I was wondering if anyone agrees about starting more discussions
>
about the beautiful prose and phenomenal poetry itself. Those cats captured
>
something magical in their literature and I for one would like to delve into
>
that magic. I was also wondering if
anyone would agree with me when I
>
contend that Corso was the greatest poet among the Beats? Thanks, and
>
perhaps I am totally off the mark here and don't know what the hell I'm
>
talking about,
>
>
Anthony
Welcome,
Anthony!
Hi
there how you doing? Not so very long
ago, i too, was very new to
the
list--I got in right as the last episode of the Great Kerouac Estate
Wars
was going on. I felt the same as you,
but the longer i am here the
more i
discover that if we don't get a feel for who the people behind
the
posts are, the conversations are rather boring. So i welcomed this
last
foray into the religion issue. That
issue was in fact very
relative
to the beat generation discussion. Look
at the varied
religions
you have within the core group of writers--you had a nice
jewish
boy and a nice catholic boy who both chose buddhism instead.
So to
give you an idea who i am, beyond the above garbled paragraph:
I'm 28,
live in marion iowa and i am a kerouac freak.
That's why i am
here.
I will
also be looking forward to your posts on corso--i have only read
a few
peices of his here and there, mostly the stuff in anthologies.
We're
all here to learn, so teach, brother, teach.
Teach us about
corso.
cathy
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 21:20:01 -0800
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From: tristan saldana
<hbeng175@EMAIL.CSUN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Herbert Huncke
Comments:
To: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
In-Reply-To:
<199711250020.SAA21569@core0.mx.execpc.com>
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You've
also gotta love the last paragraph of its opening chapter:
But I'll tell you straight . . . Well,
I obviously won't tell you
straight, because that would be a lie. Except for this business
of methadone, I'd have committed
suicide years ago. Right now I'm
living from one day to the next,
that's the way I feel. I do love
the world. It really is beautiful, so
incredibly beautiful (11).
Those
last two lines kill me. I have already
read through the book
quickly
to get a feel for what he's doing. I
could hear it right away.
Huncke
like all the other Beats show such love for life and human beings
even in
the sordid refuse of society (in Huncke's case _as_ a member of
that so
called refuse). But there's something even more special about
Huncke's
tales and the way that he tells them: they are nothing but
'straight.'
Actually he and Corso both share this majestic quality as
personalities,
as narrators and poets. He was, as McClure would call Jack,
the
sensorium. Huncke was a genuine
aesthete, Lazarus of New York and
Tiresias
of its wastelands. Beautiful Huncke has
something to tell us. I
can see
why Allen, Jack, and Bill hung around the guy.
He had the rhythm
and the
vision and crystaline humility.
Tristan
On Mon,
24 Nov 1997, Jym Mooney wrote:
>
You just gotta love someone who titles his autobiography "Guilty Of
>
Everything"!
>
>
Jym
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:43:44 -0600
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From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Gap Ad
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At
10:40 PM 11/23/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>Why
am I prolonging this?
>>I
believe the original photo can be found in the booklet that comes
>>with
the
>>audio
set, "The Jack Kerouac Collection"
>>I'm
almost positive that this is the one edited for the Khakis ad.
>
> you mean the one with Edie in the
background? that's what i
>thought
when i saw the ad too.
>
>
Has
anyone actually bought a pair of GAP khakis.
It would be
interesting
to discover whether this ad campaign actually did
any
good. After all, we're all Jack
cognescenti, at a minimum,
so did
any of us right down and get a pair of Jack GAP Khaks?
WAiting
to hear from the 250 of anyone bit on the bait.
Mike
Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 01:48:37 -0500
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From: You_Be Fine
<AngelMindz@AOL.COM>
Subject: BigSur misconceptions/miscommunications
Comments:
To: letabor@cruzio.com
In a
message dated 97-11-24 22:16:44 EST, Leon responded:
<< If you see my questions as trivial, that is
your evaluation. >>
Leon, I
don't think your questions, or your responses, are trivial, and I
hope
you don't have the impression that I do. I don't know how you came up
with
this impression, since I didn't say it, nor did I think it.
<<I just don't buy your perception
that Jack was fair mindedly and in
charge
of his mental faculties driven to madness by these mentally ill
others.
>>
Nor did
I invent or try to convey this "perception." First, I was struck by
how
similar his crack-up was to a bad acid trip. That was where I began. I
mentioned
Big Sur being a textbook for certain psych courses. I mentioned
that
I'd also heard he was suffering from the DTs.
My
personal opinion was that he was descending into madness and had a nervous
collapse
at the cabin. I don't think he was in charge of his mental faculties
during
that crack-up, and never said he was.
I think
what might have confused you on this point was the fact that I was
amazed
he could write about it accurately (indicating some sort of lucidity
on his
part, perhaps) and the fact that he was being exposed to some aberrant
behaviour
he found very offensive and frightening from the people he was
socializing
with.
I still
trust his accounting. I think the combination of ugly, intrusive
fame,
his "brother" Tyke dying, his strained relationship with Neal and how
he was
foisted off onto Billie, and his revulsion at the lifestyle of the San
Francisco
beatnik, along with a good, long bender that included alcohol and
marijuana,
pushed him over the edge. But somehow he was able to remember it
or
allow some part of himself (through dissociation, perhaps) to witness it,
and
write about it.
I sure
as hell don't think it's fiction. If I found out it was, my esteem for
jack as
a writer would be even higher than it already is, because Big Sur is
an
amazing book.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 07:06:24 +0000
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: big surLiSizeD without LSD
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diane,
i find your arguement a compelling addition to leon's post. i
mc
Diane
Carter wrote:
> I
have read Big Sur. Twice. But given
your interpretation, it does make
> me
wonder if we're reading the same book.
I do believe that Jack's
>
writing is true to what he saw happening in his own mind. The middle to
>
end of the book is probably one of the best written records ever of
>
delirium tremens. But with all your
knowledge about alcoholism you fail
> to
see how someone writing in this state is suffering from acute delirium
>
and paranoia. He writes (on page 191)
"...I feel a great ghastly hatred
> of
myself and everything, the empty feeling far from being the usual
>
relief is now as tho I've been robbed of my spinal power right down the
>
middle on purpose by a great witching force--I feel evil forces gathering
>
down all around me, from her, the kid, the very walls of the cabin, the
>
trees, even the sudden thought of Dave Wain and Romana is evil..." Given
>
your literal interpretation, then not only is Billie and the kid and Dave
>
and Romana out to get him, but so are the trees and the walls of the
>
cabin. You have to see, as Leon
accurately has been pointed out as well,
>
that anyone in this condition is not exactly in a sound state of mind.
> My
assessment of Billie also is much more sympathetic than yours. I
>
think (and this is only from what Jack wrote in Big Sur) that she truly
>
understood him and wanted to pull him from the brink of self-destruction,
>
but even she eventually realizes that he cannot accept her love because
> he
cannot love himself. I also do not
agree with your assessment of
>
alcoholism, "if they could choose to be another way they would,"
because
> it
borders on fringe of saying "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic,"
>
and on an even greater scale, that people are powerless to change their
>
own lives no matter what kind of emotional trauma they have experienced
> or
path they are on. The choice to be
otherwise is always there.
> DC
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 07:12:27 +0000
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: big surLiSizeD without LSD
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not all
of the information to assess alcoholism is true for all alcoholics. the
DTs are
what i read when the paranoia and the the visions kick in. Big Sur is an
autobiographical
novel, meant to be so by it's author. NOT meant or written or
read
as a clinical case study. if you
believe that jack is writing the literal
truth,
then why are you having such a difficult time recognizing the DTs? much
of what
he goes through happens to many in the thros of DTs, this coming from
many
years of working psych units, caring for end-stage alcoholic people.
mc
You_Be
Fine wrote:
>
Let's see if I can clarify what I believe:
>
> I
believe jack kerouac was an alcoholic, and that it's the nature of an
>
alcoholic not to be able to make the healthy choices required for changes.
>
This belief of mine is highly personal, but I didn't get words to understand
> or
describe it until I entered the world of 12-Step programs 12 years ago.
>
> I
believe that jack was highly gifted, and furthermore, that he existed on a
>
higher plane of consciousness than most people ever do.
>
> I
believe the characters in Big Sur were all based on real people, and that
>
jack describes them and their actions accurately, even though he was cracking
>
up.
>
> I
believe Big Sur is autobiographical. I've never heard any information to
>
the contrary, although I have heard jack quoted as saying it was
>
autobiographical.
>
> I
follow the book quite literally, and with every paragraph, every page I
>
turn, what he says makes more sense and rings more true.
>
>
Like everyone, my affinity for a certain book is founded on my own
>
experience, my own frame of reference. Because I've lived enough of the
>
events in Big Sur, I find them all very believable, and jack's telling of
>
them reasoned and illuminating.
>
> To
me, this book is a masterpiece. I just re-read it on Saturday before
>
posting my first comment to the list. I think I'll read it again, and of
>
course, I'll be thinking of all your comments while I do.
>
>
But I'm not at all comfortable with the idea that Big Sur should be seen as
>
literature, as opposed to a case study in a nervous breakdown, lived and
>
recounted by the one who experienced it.
>
>
Recently I read Sombrero Fallout by Richard Brautigan, and in the main
>
subplot (since there are about five plots, I think of them all as subplots,
>
but then, I'm no scholar, and proud of that fact; just a reader) what I saw
>
was the beginning of the end of Brautigan's life, or as Judith said about Big
>
Sur in the first place, "It was like reading a suicide note." I
believed
>
Brautigan was foreshadowing his own suicide, and the fact that he did
>
ultimately die violently at his own hand supports my belief, at least to me.
>
What he went through was very familiar to me on a personal level (as a member
> in
good standing of the Crack-up Club, along with David Rhaesa and some
>
others too shy to talk about it).
>
>
Same thing with jack and reading Big Sur. I don't see any reason why I should
>
look for metaphor and all those painfully intellectual literary analyses (ew,
>
I'm so smart) when the words he wrote are all right there in front of me, in
>
perfect order, exactly as he meant for them to be read.
>
> I
really believe (and I'm not suggesting anyone who's participated in this
>
discussion so far falls into this description) that people are often so
>
uncomfortable with "the lunatic ravings" of a holy man, because there
is so
>
much truth in them, that they need to retreat into rationalization, seeking
>
explanations rather than taking what's there on face value.
>
>
That's where I'm coming from. I don't try to figure jack out. I just let his
>
words transport me there.
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Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 07:27:38 +0000
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: levi's burroughs web site
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to levi
and all beats
it's
beautifully written, laid out, and comprehensive. so good to see
patricia's
gentle and loving accounts and descriptions.
levi
where did you get that color that absolutely radiant color photo
that is
on the page?
in
trying to save the image before making a bookmark, i lost the
address.
and your post as well, levi,
could
you kindly repost the address of the page?
many
thanks
marie c
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Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 07:31:41 -0500
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From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Gap Ad
In-Reply-To:
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I have
a pair of Wide Leg Khaki's from the GAP but then again, Ive always
shopped
at the GAP and would still shop there even if Kerouac didnt wear
Khakis....
On Mon,
24 Nov 1997, Mike Rice wrote:
> At
10:40 PM 11/23/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>Why am I prolonging this?
>
>>I believe the original photo can be found in the booklet that comes
>
>>with the
>
>>audio set, "The Jack Kerouac Collection"
>
>>I'm almost positive that this is the one edited for the Khakis ad.
>
>
>
> you mean the one with Edie in
the background? that's what i
>
>thought when i saw the ad too.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Has anyone actually bought a pair of GAP khakis. It would be
>
interesting to discover whether this ad campaign actually did
>
any good. After all, we're all Jack
cognescenti, at a minimum,
> so
did any of us right down and get a pair of Jack GAP Khaks?
>
WAiting to hear from the 250 of anyone bit on the bait.
>
>
Mike Rice
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
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Subject: Re: Kerouac Gap Ad
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>
Has anyone actually bought a pair of GAP khakis. It would be
>
interesting to discover whether this ad campaign actually did
>
any good. After all, we're all Jack
cognescenti, at a minimum,
> so
did any of us right down and get a pair of Jack GAP Khaks?
>
WAiting to hear from the 250 of anyone bit on the bait.
>
>
Mike Rice
not me
mc
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Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 08:42:37 -0600
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From: Patricia Elliott
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Subject: Re: levi's burroughs web site
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Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
could you kindly repost the address of the page?
>
many thanks
>
thank
you for your kind words on my contribution to Levi page, which is
at
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/SlicedBardo/
I too
was taken by Levi's work, It was a great compilation in an wow
setting. I was very pleased to the inclusion of the
carolyn cassady
note, it seemed fitting. It wouldn't really seem to reflect william if
someone
hadn't added "I just don't like the guy".
The
interview about tangiers struck me as absolutely right, as did the
orgone
box in williams back yard. Of all the
places william lived
tangiers
(in my conversations with william) made some of the strongest
impressions
on william. He would talk of the
colors, the People (the
bowles
were the most striking). One of
williams great cats was named
Jane
after jane bowles. she was a (the cat)a
delicately built calico,
very
curous, very sensitive, very clever. I
had to learn not to walk
around
the house so solidly, she liked nice even entrances. I normally
bound. Oh i digress. The Levi site in total is a work of art and i
have
found his explanation of what beat literature is to be excellant.
His use
of links are a delight.
patricia
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Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:48:21 -0500
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From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Gap Ad
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> Has
anyone actually bought a pair of GAP khakis.
It would be
>
interesting to discover whether this ad campaign actually did
>
any good. After all, we're all Jack
cognescenti, at a minimum,
> so
did any of us right down and get a pair of Jack GAP Khaks?
Actually,
if we really wanted to follow the ad and wear khakis because
Jack
and Allen did we'd go to the Goodwill and buy them just as they did.
Biggest
reason they were worn was they were dirt cheap and pletiful. Also
those
were the days when jeans were dungarees and work clothes, not casual
wear.
------------------
Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
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Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 00:19:13 -0800
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From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Big Sur: paranoia
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Here is
one passage where my interpretation is that Jack recognizes that
most of
what is going on in his head is in fact paranoia and fantasy (and
it
occurs early on before the big buildup that takes place in the cabin
where
his mental state worsens further).
pg.
116-117
"...But
my childhood revery also included the fact that everybody in the
world
was making fun of me because they were all members of an eternal
secret
society or Heaven society that knew the secret of the world and
were
seriously fooling me so I'd wake up and see the light (i.e. become
enlightened,
in fact)--So that I, 'Ti Jean,' was the LAST Ti Jean left in
the
world, the last poor holy fool, those people at my neck were the
devils
of the earth among whom God had cast me, an angel baby, as tho I
was the
last Jesus in fact! and all these people were waiting for me to
realize
it and wake up and catch them peeking and we'd all laugh in
Heaven
suddenly--But animals werent doing that behind my back, my cats
were
always adornments licking their paws sadly, and Jesus, he was a sad
witness
to this, somewhat like the animals--He wasn't peeking down my
neck--There
lies the root of my belief in Jesus--So actually the only
reality
in the world was Jesus and the lambs (the animals) and my brother
Gerard
who had instructed me--Meanwhile some of the peekers were kindly
and
sad, like my father, but had to go along with everybody else in the
same
boat--But my waking up would take place and then everything would
vanish
except Heaven, which is God--And that was why later in life after
these
rather strange you must admit childhood reveries, after I had that
fainting
vision of the Golden Eternity and others before and after it
including
Samadhis during Buddhist meditations in the woods, I conceived
of
myself as a special solitary angel sent down as a messanger from
Heaven
to tell everybody or show everybody by example that their peeking
society
was actually the Satanic Society and they were all on the wrong
track.
With all this in my background, now at the
point of adulthood disaster
of the
soul, through excessive drinking, all this was easily converted
into a
fantasy that everybody in the world was witching me to madness:
and I
must have believed it subconsciously because as I say as soon as
Ron
Blake left I was well again and in fact content."
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 06:01:13 -0800
Reply-To: Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>
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From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: BigSur
misconceptions/miscommunications
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-----Original
Message-----
From:
You_Be Fine <AngelMindz@AOL.COM>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date:
Monday, November 24, 1997 10:47 PM
Subject:
BigSur misconceptions/miscommunications
>In
a message dated 97-11-24 22:16:44 EST, Leon responded:
I SAID:
><<
If you see my questions as trivial,
that is your evaluation. >>
YOU
SAID:
>Leon,
I don't think your questions, or your responses, are trivial, and I
>hope
you don't have the impression that I do. I don't know how you came up
>with
this impression, since I didn't say it, nor did I think it.
I SAY:
The
impression that you felt my "theory" is trivial xame from this
passage:
>Regarding
this theory, I really don't see the value in it at all. It feels
>like,
for some reason, you're splitting hairs. What are we supposed to
>believe
and not believe in Big Sur, or On The Road, or any of jack's books?
Is
there another way to interpret it?
If I
felt this was some kind of a personal clash, I would have responded by
backchannell.
I believe that we are dealing here with sincerely held views
about
the book that we are all interested in.
I was
questioning the notion that Jack was horrified into madness by the
behavior
of his friends, that there was no reason at all to suspect that his
state
of mind might have distorted motives and actions of his friends. I was
not
questioning Jack's genius. I also have no question that he was writing
about
his experience of life, not inventing fiction. He was writing about
how
things seemed to him at the time and how he felt about himself.
YOU
SAID:
>I
think what might have confused you on this point was the fact that I was
>amazed
he could write about it accurately (indicating some sort of lucidity
>on
his part, perhaps) and the fact that he was being exposed to some
aberrant
>behaviour
he found very offensive and frightening from the people he was
>socializing
with.
I SAY:
Enough
maybe? good enough for me.
Have a
happy thanksgiving everyone
leon
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 08:38:14 +0000
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<nancyp@wenet.net>
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CITY LIGHTS BOOKS
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Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 13:20:23 -0500
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From: You_Be Fine
<AngelMindz@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Big Sur: paranoia
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In a
message dated 97-11-25 11:00:16 EST, DC wrote
<<=20
Here is one passage where my interpretation
is that Jack recognizes that
most of what is going on in his head is in
fact paranoia and fantasy (an=
d
it occurs early on before the big buildup
that takes place in the cabin
where his mental state worsens further).
=20
>>
This is
an excellent example of why I don't post more often to Beat-L. I
already
cited from this long passage in one of my very first posts, but
obviously,
Diane Carter didn't read it.
Here
are snips from my earliest posts:
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
I'm
happy to stipulate that jack's collapse didn't have anything to do wi=
th
LSD,
but was some kind of inner look in midlife where he couldn't deal wi=
th
what he
saw.
I sure
don't want to overthink this. There are some absolutely tactile im=
ages
in Big
Sur, and sometimes I think we overlook the quality of his prose in=
a
book
that has so much autobiographical information. We get hung up on "th=
e
story
behind the story," and fail to see the beauty.
I was
thinking how incredible it was that he had the presence of mind to =
be
aware
of what was happening to him, and to write it down so faithfully wh=
en
he was
finished cracking up. To me, that is a measure of his inspired sou=
l as
a
chosen one, a vessel through which such beauty flows as most ignorant f=
olks
can't
really understand. He certainly believed he was inspired:
BUT MY
WAKING UP would take place and then everything would vanish except
Heaven,
which is God=97And that was why later in life after these rather
strange
you must admit childhood reveries, after I had that fainting visi=
on
of the
Golden Eternity and others before and after it=85 in the woods, I
conceived
of myself as a special solitary angel sent down as a messenger =
from
Heaven
to tell everybody or show everybody by example that their peeking
society
was actually the Satanic Society and they were all on the wrong
track.
But he
saw his weaknesses:
WITH
ALL THIS IN MY BACKGROUND, now at the point of adulthood disaster of=
the
soul,
through excessive drinking, all this was easily converted into a
fantasy
that everybody in the world was witching me to madness:
And
maybe drugs were getting to him:
BUT
THAT'S NOT the point, about pot paranoia, yet maybe it is at that=97I=
=92ve
long
given it up because it bugs me anyway=97
Who
knows? He was certainly disillusioned:
=85I
USED TO STAND by the windows like this in my childhood and look out =
on
dusky...=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
I'm not
saying it was drugs, the DTs or some 24-hour virus that got to ja=
ck.
I don't
need to reach a conclusion about it. And I don't need to be right=
,
either.
jack was about conflict, and he struggled all his life to keep tw=
o
conflicting
thoughts in his head simultaneously (see Dharma Bums, Scriptu=
re
of the
Golden Eternity, Selected Letters).
As I
said, Who knows? I'm not going to put jack in a box and limit the
meaning
of his stories with my small imagination. He's the one I'm trying=
to
learn
from; I'm not trying to reinvent or teach him.
I was
hoping for some good old anti-intellectual, heartfelt sharing from =
list
members
who've "been to Big Sur" in their own experiences, not in an
antiseptic
dissection of jack kerouac (safe in heaven dead and laughing h=
is
ass off
at all of us here) by people who need to reach conclusions.
Hey,
has anyone seen that picture of jack in the GAP ads? What do you thi=
nk?
Did
someone sell him out? Was that right or wrong? What would jack think?
(hoping
you all have a sense of humour.....)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 14:26:47 -0500
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From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: Kerouac Gap Ad
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>Has
anyone actually bought a pair of GAP khakis.
It would be
>interesting
to discover whether this ad campaign actually did
>any
good. After all, we're all Jack
cognescenti, at a minimum,
>so
did any of us right down and get a pair of Jack GAP Khaks?
>WAiting
to hear from the 250 of anyone bit on the bait.
well the ad has a weakness, jack didn't
wear GAP khakis, so if
anyone
wanted to imitate kerouac they could just go out and buy a pair
of
dockers, or whatever.. or, more appropriately, head down to the
nearest
salv. army or thrift shop and get whatever you happen to find
there.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:11:09 -0800
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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: New Yorker Question
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Remember
on the 40th anniversary of On the Road the New York Times web site
did a
forum on Jack kerouac: Typist or Writer?
There
was a post there from September that said:
__________
ermoore
<erm@mail.utexas.edu> - 12:19pm Sep 16, 1997 EST (#31 of 58)
For
anyone interested in a glimpse of Kerouac's never-before-available road
diaries,
check out The
New
Yorker in the coming weeks. Kerouac's literary executor, Douglas
Brinkley
(author of The
Majic
Bus and editor of Hunter S. Thompson's recently published early
correspondence
The Proud
Highway,
among other things), is going to edit and publish this epic journal
and
will be offering a few
excerpts
from the diaries in an upcoming issue of The New Yorker.
___________________
It's
been more than two months this this post and I sure haven't seen
anything
like this in the New Yorker. Did I miss
it or is it still to come
or is
this the publishing equivalent of vaporware.
I'd
like to see this. Does anyone know
anything about it?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 15:38:32 -0500
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From: You_Be Fine
<AngelMindz@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: New Yorker Question
In a
message dated 97-11-25 15:16:17 EST, Tim wrote:
<< It's been more than two months this this
post and I sure haven't seen
anything like this in the New Yorker. Did I miss it or is it still to come
or is this the publishing equivalent of
vaporware.
I'd like to see this. Does anyone know anything about it? >>
Paul
Maher stays up-to-date on Estate-related things and posts them to his
website:
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.html,
although
I don't know if there's anything specific there about this project.
I
believe the excerpts are scheduled to appear in December. You might email
Paul
and see if he has an update, or contact the New Yorker.
And let
us know. I'm interested in this, too.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 15:43:54 -0500
Reply-To: blackj@bigmagic.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Al Aronowitz
<blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>
Subject: NICOSIA'S ARCHIVES
Comments:
cc: GNicosia@earthlink.net
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
I've
just today received this letter from Gerald Nicosia and believe
that
anyone interested in the Beat Generation archives or the Jack
Kerouac
archives will be riveted by what this letter has to say. I
think
it a shame that one great Kerouac scholar should have to be
persecuted
like this (at the expense of ALL Kerouac scholras) for having
stood
up for Jan Kerouac and for still standing up for her. Greed is
not the
sole quality which should guide whoever it is in the control of
the
Kerouac estate.
I am
writing to everyone who has supported or shown interest in my work
on Jack
Kerouac and my critical biography of Kerouac, "Memory Babe".
The
huge amount of research I did on Kerouac's life during the years
1977-1981,
including 300 hundred taped interviews and many thousands of
pages
of letters and other documents, is in grave danger of being lost
forever. Let me explain.
In
1987, for the very modest fee of $7,500, 1 placed the entire "Memory
Babe"
Archive on deposit at the University of Lowell (now called the
University
of Massachusetts, Lowell). Since Lowell
is Jack Kerouac's
hometown,
I assumed the archive would receive maximum exposure there to
scholars,
writers, and others interested in studying Kerouac's life and
writings. In fact, when I placed the Memorv Babe
archive at the
university,
it was done with the stipulation that it be made available
to the
public for scholarly study. I also stipulated
that the
materials,
especially the tapes, be properly cared for.
The
unique and precious quality of this material cannot be
overemphasized. Of the 300 people I taped who knew Kerouac,
over 100
are now
dead. Many of the dead interviewees are
major American writers,
such as
Allen Ginsberg, William Burroughs, Kenneth Rexroth, Robert
Duncan,
Bob Kaufman, Ted Berrigan, John Clellon Holmes, Paul Carroll,
Malcolm
Cowley, Seymour Krim, Herbert Huncke, and Jan Kerouac. Other
dead
interviewees include Kerouac's first two wives, Edie Parker and
Joan
Haverty, and close boyhood friends.
These interviews can never be
replaced.
The
University of Lowell has never copied these tapes on to fresh
cassettes
or made any other effort to preserve them, such as
digitalization,
despite my complaints about their obvious deterioration
over
time. Then, in June, 1995, 1 received a
post card from
scholar/professor
James Jones that the entire archive was closed to the
public. Mr. Jones wrote: "I just tried to look
at the papers you
donated
to the University of Lowell, and the librarian in the Mogan
Center
told me your collection is closed to the public until the lawsuit
is
resolved."
I
called Martha Mayo, the librarian, to ask what was going on, and why
Jan
Kerouac's lawsuit against the Sampas family, to recover her fathers
papers,
should have anything to do with my archives.
Ms. Mayo informed
me that
John Sampas, the literary executor for Stella Sampas Kerouac's
estate,
had complained about people having access to mv collection
without
his permission. Mr. Sampas lives in
Lowell and has a great deal
of
influence there. The library agreed to
shut my collection, even
though
Mr. Sampas has never demonstrated that he has the legal authority
to keep
people from using any of the "Memory Babe" materials for study.
(Legally,
he has the right only to keep people from publishing or
broadcasting
some of Jack Kerouac's writings without his permission.)
I
threatened to make a public issue of the illegal closing of my
archives
and was then told--deceptively--by the librarian that the
collection
was still open, that she had only restricted the xeroxing of
Jack
Kerouac letters. (There are also 2,000 Jack Kerouac letters in
xerox
in my collection, more Jack Kerouac letters than in any other spot
on
earth.) Several months later, however, I began getting more letters
and
calls from scholars who had been turned away from the entire
collection. The university then admitted the collection
was indeed
closed.
In
effect, this enormous archive of study material on the life of Jack
Kerouac
has been permanently buried--and consigned to imminent
destruction,
since the life of many of the tapes is at most only a few
more
years.
Other
libraries, such as the Bancroft in Berkeley and the University of
Texas
at Austin, have already expressed their interest in acquiring the
"Memory
Babe" archives for the purpose of making it available for
study. But the University of Massachusetts at
Lowell will not divest
itself of
the archives even if paid back in full the purchasing price.
The
University of Massachusetts, Lowell, will not sell the "Memory Babe"
archives,
will not properly care for it, and will not show it to
anyone. This is a situation in which everyone is the
loser, and most
especially
the future generations of scholars and writers who seek
access
to a wealth of primary source material on Jack Kerouac.
The
University of Massachusefts, Lowell, has left me no choice but to
file a
breach of contract suit against them, to recover the "Memory
Babe"
archive so that it can be placed in another institution, where it
can be
made freely available to the public. An
institution not under
the
direct influence of Mr. John Sampas.
For two years I tried and
failed to
put together a pro bono legal team to carry out this suit, but
was
unable to do so. I have, however, found
a Boston attorney who will
take
the case at a considerably reduced rate.
But I still need to come
up with
a $20,000 retainer, which will also cover filing fees,
depositions,
and so forth.
Action
must be taken now, or the chance to act will be lost forever. A
statute
of limitation is running on fraud and breach of contract--three
years
in Massachusetts. That statute will be
up in June of 1998. If I
do not
take action before then, I will lose forever the legal right to
recover
the "Memory Babe" archives
I am
asking people to donate as much as they possibly can. I do not
intend
to make any money from this legal action whatsoever. My only
goal is
to save this huge archive of study materials for posterity.
Every
person who donates will receive a receipt for their donation and
an
accounting every 6 months of how the money is being spent.
We hope
that negative publicity will cause the University of
Massachusetts
to settle quickly, to accept payment for the archive and
transfer
it directly to me or to another university that offers to
purchase
it. If indeed we have to go the
distance in trial court and
appellate
court, there is still a good chance, if we win, of recouping
legal
expenses from the university and/or from the resale of the archive
to
another university.
Once
this happens, once we win and resell the archive to another
university,
all remaining funds, plus any earned, will be returned to
the
donors with the aim of fullest possible reimbursement. For example,
if a
total of $20,000 was donated, and $20,000 is recovered, everyone
will
get 1 00% of their donation back. If
only $1 0,000 is recovered
(if,
for example, legal fees are not repaid, but we earn $1 0,000
reselling
the archive), then every donor will receive back 50% of his
donation.
The
"Memory Babe" archive is the largest archive of study materials
concerning
Jack Kerouac's life and work anywhere in the world. It can
be
saved only with your help. I appeal to
you now, with the coming
generations
of scholars and writers in mind.
Thank
you from the bottom of my heart, for listening and for helping.
Gerald
Nicosia
--
***************************************
Al
Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:56:43 +0900
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Timothy Hoffman
<timothy@GOL.COM>
Subject: Re: New Yorker Question
In-Reply-To: <199711252011.MAA11998@hsc.usc.edu>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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>For
anyone interested in a glimpse of Kerouac's never-before-available road
>diaries,
check out The
>New
Yorker in the coming weeks. Kerouac's literary executor, Douglas
>Brinkley
(author of The
>Majic
Bus and editor of Hunter S. Thompson's recently published early
>correspondence
The Proud
>Highway,
among other things), is going to edit and publish this epic journal
>and
will be offering a few
>excerpts
from the diaries in an upcoming issue of The New Yorker.
>
>___________________
>
>It's
been more than two months this this post and I sure haven't seen
>anything
like this in the New Yorker. Did I miss
it or is it still to come
>or
is this the publishing equivalent of vaporware.
I'm also wondering about the
publication of these excerpts. I live
outside
of Nagoya a couple of hours, and have been sneaking away on Sunday
mornings
on the train to the city where the English language
books/magazines
are sold to see if it's come out yet. I feared I had missed
it. Can
anyone provide the issue date of the magazine? Or has its
publication
been postponed?
:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::
Timothy
Hoffman
Komaki
English Teaching Center (KETC)
Komaki
Shiminkaikan, KETC
2-107
Komaki
Komaki,
Aichi 485
work
(0568) 76-0905
fax
(0568) 77-8207
home
(0568)72-3549
timothy@gol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:04:39 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Pullicino
<jjpull@PAC.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: allow me to...
In-Reply-To: <347A5130.177B@sunflower.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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g'day
all,
as i've
just joined, i thought i'd just briefly introduce myself.
i've
been an avid reader of kerouac and other beat writers since 1965 when
as a
schoolboy i came across a hardback edition of 'on the road' in one of
the
secondhand bookstores i used to haunt - i think it was the 'girls!
jazz!
booze!' on the cover (predating 'sex'n'drugs'nrock'nroll?) that got
my
attention. later as a lawstudent at university, i was blessed to find
one
wintry morning a whole assortment of city lights publications out on
sale at
a ridiculously reduced rate- i picked up as many as i could afford,
including
some now hard to find here like Scripture of the Golden Eternity
by K,
and The First Third by Neal Cassady. ( I got Mexico City Blues too,
but
that vanished long a go at one of /those/ parties)
in the
last 30 years i have also amassed a lot of cuttings and articles - i
hope to
start learning more here of course.............
--
bye for
now,
#<|||||||||||||||||||||||>#
John Pullicino #<|||||||||||||||||||||||>#
(|||||||||||||||||||) #jjpull@pac.com.au# (|||||||||||||||||||)
#<|||||||||||||>#
*Team AMIGA WorldWide* #<|||||||||||||||>#
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:13:45 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dennis Cardwell
<DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Aronowitz/Nicosia
Waiting
for the other shoe to drop...
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 19:19:38 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Memory babe Archive - Al Aronowitz
post correction
In-Reply-To: <347B388A.1A5F@bigmagic.com>
Mime-Version:
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Friends:
Please
make the following correction before you pass Al's post on to friends.
In the
third from the last paragragraph:
***
Instead
of contributors receiving an accounting EVERY SIX MONTHS they will
be
informed of EXACTLY how the money is used.They will NOT receive an
accounting
every six months simply becauase that could become expensive and
time
consuming. There is an incredible amount of work to do and not much
time to
do it in.
***
By
Thanksgiving Day (maybe I'll have it up by 11-26-97) there will be a
notice
at http://www.bookzen.com detailing the following fundraiser to help
Gerry
Nicosia recover the Memory babe Archive from the University of
Massachusetts.
A
broadside (picture of Jan Kerouac at her father's grave and a poem by Jan
titled
"Natasha") along with an Incredible Librarian T-Shirt will be given
to
anyone who makes a contribution. For the T-Shirt alone $25. For the
boardside
alone $25. For both $45. For any of the
three please add $5 for
the
cost of shipping the poster and t -shirt in a substantial tube.
As many
Beats and friends of Jan know, Natasha was the stillborn daughter
Jan
lost in Mexico when she was 16. On her way to Mexico Jan had stopped
and
visited with her dad. He instructed her to use the name Kerouac and to
write.
The photograph of Jan was taken by Chris Felver and printed by White
Fields
Press. The photographer has signed the broadside. As Jan's literary
executor
Gerry Nicosia has given permission to use Jan's picture and the
poem
Jan wrote to the still-born child that would have been Jack's
granddaughter.
I have asked Gerry if he would also sign the broadside if
anyone
wanted him to do so. He said he would.
Contributions
can be sent to:
Gerry
Nicosia
SAVE
THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVE
PO Box
130
Corte
Madera CA 94976-0130
(415)
924-2270 (phone/fax)
The
t-shirts are cotton, sizes Medium, Large and X-Large. The art is four
color
on the front and shows the Incredible Librarian flying.
Below
her image is "Guardian de la Sabidoria
- Keeper of Knowledge.
On the
back is:
"In
the defense of freedom and literacy libraries are the most powerful
weapon
we have. Use them!"
These
t-shirts were originally created, as was the character The Incredible
Librarian,
because of the desperate need for more preservation labs and for
more
trained preservation librarians.
These
are very high quality t-shirts. I have one test shirt that I have
machine
washed in hot water over 300 times. The art is clear,the shirt
strong.
No tears, no threads arond the edges.
$2000.00
worth of these t-shirts are being donated by BookZen and Mica
Press
to help recover the Memory Babe Archives from the University of
Massachusetts.
I will
provide an address for the web site, with all of the art and
information,
by tomorrow.
I would
appeciate it if contributors allow me to post their names on the
web
site that will track tis effort to recover and preseve the Memory Babe
Archive.
Thanks.
j grant
Small Press Publishers and Authors
Display Books Free At
BookZen
592,901
Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-01-97
http://www.bookzen.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 21:54:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: You_Be Fine <AngelMindz@AOL.COM>
Subject: Before you reach into your pocket...
Regarding
the fundraising campaign launched by Gerry Nicosia, et. al., before
you
make a donation, don't you think it would be a good idea to ask the UMass
Lowell
Library for a comment, as well as what their position would be toward
relinquishing
these papers?
Another
good question would be to ask them why they are reluctant, if in
fact,
they are.
They
are not required to sell it, by law or for any other reason. They bought
it,
fair and square.
With
all due respect toward Gerald Nicosia, I want to hear the other side of
the
story.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 21:54:51 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Before you reach into your pocket...
In-Reply-To: <971125215441_-388719893@mrin51.mail.aol.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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Tue, 25 Nov 1997 21:54:42 You_Be Fine <AngelMindz@AOL.COM>
wrote:
>Regarding
the fundraising campaign launched by Gerry Nicosia, et. al., before
>you
make a donation, don't you think it would be a good idea to ask the UMass
>Lowell
Library for a comment, as well as what their position would be toward
>relinquishing
these papers?
>
>Another
good question would be to ask them why they are reluctant, if in
>fact,
they are.
>
>They
are not required to sell it, by law or for any other reason. They bought
>it,
fair and square.
>
>With
all due respect toward Gerald Nicosia, I want to hear the other side of
>the
story.
Interesting
post You_Be Fine,
Do you
really think anyone would go to the trouble of filing a law suit
against
a major university to rip people off
for some donations? Do you
think a
respected writer would engage in such a fraud for a few thousand
dollars?
Do you think anyone would donate $2000.00 worth of T-Shirts to
assist
in such a thing?
Were I
a cautious person like yourself You-Be-Fine-AngelMindz, I would be
on the
phone to the American Library Association asking them to
investigate. The following will save you time:
American
Library Association
50 E
Huron St.
Chicago,
IL
1-800-545-2433
1-312-944-6780
Do the
same with the Massachusetts Library Association and the Library
Association
in your state Contact the organizations made up of Preservation
Librarians
within the ALA. Do a blanket canvas of the Preservation
Librarian
groups in all the states. Before this is over every librarian in
North
America is going to have insights into how the U MASS cares for
valuable
collections. As will academics, writers, poets and others who have
archives
that might, under ordinary circumstances, be given or sold to the
U MASS.
The
Special Collections librarian at U MASS Lowell is going to find out
that
the position of Special Collections librarian comes with the
obligation
to care for the collections. Nothing is more important than
PRESERVATION.
To not PRESERVE is a betrayal of the most serious kine.
Materials
that have been entrusted to a university are deteriorating and
incredibly
valuable information is being lost--NEVER TO BE RECOVERED.
As for
asking them what their position is on reliquishing the Memory Babe
Archive,
read the post. They refuse to do so. They refuse to accept what
they
paid for it so the collection can be placed in a library that cares
for
archived materials.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line by 11-27-97
http://www.bookzen.com
592,901 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 03:56:41 UT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: allow me to...
welcome
John. how bout telling us about thos
articles you have? ciao,
sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
John Pullicino
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 1997 5:04 PM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: allow me to...
g'day
all,
as i've
just joined, i thought i'd just briefly introduce myself.
i've
been an avid reader of kerouac and other beat writers since 1965 when
as a
schoolboy i came across a hardback edition of 'on the road' in one of
the
secondhand bookstores i used to haunt - i think it was the 'girls!
jazz!
booze!' on the cover (predating 'sex'n'drugs'nrock'nroll?) that got
my
attention. later as a lawstudent at university, i was blessed to find
one
wintry morning a whole assortment of city lights publications out on
sale at
a ridiculously reduced rate- i picked up as many as i could afford,
including
some now hard to find here like Scripture of the Golden Eternity
by K,
and The First Third by Neal Cassady. ( I got Mexico City Blues too,
but
that vanished long a go at one of /those/ parties)
in the
last 30 years i have also amassed a lot of cuttings and articles - i
hope to
start learning more here of course.............
--
bye for
now,
#<|||||||||||||||||||||||>#
John Pullicino #<|||||||||||||||||||||||>#
(|||||||||||||||||||) #jjpull@pac.com.au# (|||||||||||||||||||)
#<|||||||||||||>#
*Team AMIGA WorldWide* #<|||||||||||||||>#
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:25:50 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Before you reach into your pocket...
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
You_Be
Fine wrote:
>
>
Regarding the fundraising campaign launched by Gerry Nicosia, et. al., before
>
you make a donation, don't you think it would be a good idea to ask the UMass
>
Lowell Library for a comment, as well as what their position would be toward
>
relinquishing these papers?
>
>
Another good question would be to ask them why they are reluctant, if in
>
fact, they are.
>
>
They are not required to sell it, by law or for any other reason. They bought
>
it, fair and square.
>
>
With all due respect toward Gerald Nicosia, I want to hear the other side of
>
the story.
with
all due respect, why don't you do
this. and lets us all tred very
carefully.
as i don't want to hear the other shoe drop until after the
dreaded
holidays are over. i need my beat-l hey
did you guys look at
what
levi has done as a memorial to william.. he used my bardo peice
and never did it work as well. great exciting people we have on beat-l
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/SlicedBardo/
patricia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:27:17 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: You_Be Fine <AngelMindz@AOL.COM>
Subject: On The Road to Big Sur
Seems
like all of jack's books connect to his other books... so I picked up
my copy
of "Trip Trap" (Grey Fox Press 1973), which isn't strictly a kerouac
book,
since it's coauthored by Lew Welch (Dave Wain in Big Sur) and Albert
Saijo
(George Baso 'the little Japanese Zen master hepcat'), and was
published
after jack had died and Lew had disappeared, assumed dead...
Albert
wrote the first piece, "A Recollection," about the road trip he, Lew
and
Jack took from San Francisco to New York the Thanksgiving before Big Sur,
and his
return with Lew to Hyphen-House, their collective house "on the
northwest
corner of Post and Buchanan in San Francisco." He tells about the
kitchen
table where he gathered with housemates Les Thompson, Tom Fields,
Philip
Whalen, John Blaise, and Lew, and how jack arrived there in November
of
1959, "at the height of his fame... drinking heavy, but he appeared to be
on a
binge and determined to party on. He never lacked company. His celebrity
drew
company."
Housemates
and company gathered around the kitchen table for "plain quiet
talk or
boozing and howling," and Albert adds, "It was as Jack described it
in the
beautifully sustained prose of his book of suffering, Big Sur." jack
said:
"It's an old roominghouse of four stories on the edge of the Negro
district
of San Francisco where... [they] all live in different rooms with
their
clutter of rucksacks and floor mattresses and books and gear, each one
taking
turns one day a week to go out and do all the shopping and come back
and
cook up a big communal dinner in the kitchen."
Albert
was very aware of jack's declining mental state that November,
foreshadowing
the August crackup at Big Sur, observing how "The mornings
after
were deathly quiet. Jack would get up with a look in his eyes verging
on the
dead eye look of metabolic extremity and smile a ruined hungover
smile.
You understood then that his drinking was some kind of penance he had
put on
himself to do in a Mexican Indian Catholic way, and it brought to mind
the
51st Psalm that begins, 'Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy
lovingkindness...'
Penance for what? God only knows, but why else did he do
it?
Sacrifice himself to juice. When he drank it was like he tore open his
breast
with his bare hands to show God his pure beating heart."
So I
went back to Big Sur (the book, not the location) with the addition of
Albert's
information, and read some passages over again, and saw the whole
crack-up
a little more deeply, and certainly, more spiritually. "So easy in
the
woods to daydream and pray to the local spirits and say, 'Allow me to
stay
here, I only want peace' and those foggy peaks answer back mutely
Yes--And
to say to yourself (if you're like me with theological
preoccupations)
(at least at that time, before I went mad and still had such
preoccupations)
'God who is everything possesses the eye of the awakening,
like
dreaming a long dream of an impossible task and you wake up in in a
flash,
oops, No Task, it's done and gone'--"
Seemed
like part of the tapestry of madness jack was being woven into
involved
a serious questioning of his faith in a God of some sort. He
isolates
this ambivalence as the beginning of his crack-up: "The sea seems to
yell to
me GO TO YOUR DESIRE DONT HAND AROUND HERE-- For after all the sea
must be
like God, God isnt asking us to mope and suffer and sit by the sea in
the
cold at midnight for the sake of writing down useless sounds, he gave us
the
tools of self reliance after all to make it straight thru bad life
mortality
towards Paradise maybe I hope--But some miserables like me dont
even
know it, when it comes to us we're amazed--Ah, life is a gate, a way, a
path to
Paradise anyway, why not live for fun and joy and love or some sort
of girl
by a fireside, why not go to your desire and LAUGH...but I ran away
from
that seashore and never came back again without that secret knowledge:
that it
didnt want me there, that I was a fool to sit there in the first
place,
the sea has its waves, the man has his fireside, period.
That being the first indication of my
later flip--"
Backing
up, being aware of list-members' comments about the DTs and what jack
experienced
at Big Sur, I was also newly aware of this passage he wrote
describing
the skid road hotel room he checked into when he first arrived,
before
he hooked up with Monsanto (Ferlinghetti): "But the rucksack sits
hopefully
in a strewn mess of bottles all empty, empty poorboys of white
port,
butts, junk, horror... 'One fast move or I'm gone,' I realize, gone the
way of
the last three years of drunken hopelessness which is a physical and
metaphysical
hopelessness you cant learn in school no matter how many books
on
existentialism or pessimism you read, or how many jugs of vision-producing
Ayahuasca
you drink, or Mescaline take, or Peyote goop up with--That feeling
when
you wake up with the delirium tremens with the _fear_ of eerie death
dripping
from your ears like those special heavy cobwebs spiders weave in the
hot
countries..." I found myself wondering what kind of "junk" he
was
referring
to here, and certainly interested in all his references to
psychedelics.
Back in
Trip Trap, Albert had mentioned, as part of his description of
goings-on
at the kitchen table, "It was before acid, there was occasionally
peyote
and some grass." That really caused me to wonder once again about the
nature
of jack's very psychedelic (to me) crack-up.
Albert
also observed, remembering the 1959 visit to jack's home in Northport,
that
"When he was here at home, safe, relaxed, unharassed, the famous author
bullshit
set aside, you could see the great beauty and sweetness of his
character."
But away from the security of his home, it was entirely another
story.
Side
note: In Northport, after the Thanksgiving 1959 road trip, jack showed
Lew and
Albert something special: "He showed us a manuscript of his notes,
jottings,
and text on Buddhism. The extent of his study was quite impressive.
I don't
believe any part of this manuscript has ever been published."
That
reminded me of his 'Tao on the Toilet,' which Adrien posted to the list
a few
days ago with the subject line, "A little too much of the dharma..."
'A
wellknown truth in every private heart
in this
long night of life:
A big
defecation leaves nothing to be wiped,
A small
one, there's no wiping it.
This is Jean-Louis' Tao on the Toilet'
(p.220)
Hilariously
enough, the origins of this anal thinking, as well as the
treatise
on "dirty azzoles," are found in Trip Trap within the poem jack
wrote
jointly with Lew Welch, titled "This Is What It's Called." And you
may
learn a
bit more than you want to know about Peter Orlovsky's bowel habits in
Albert's
accounting, as well.
Trip
Trap is a great book to read before or after or even DURING Big Sur. And
for all
the discussion on the list about Big Sur in the last few days, I hope
those
who haven't read it will now feel compelled to do so. It is an amazing
book.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:53:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: You_Be Fine
<AngelMindz@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Before you reach into your pocket...
In a
message dated 97-11-25 23:43:17 EST, you write:
<<
Do you really think anyone would go to the
trouble of filing a law suit
against a major university to rip people off for some donations? Do you
think a respected writer would engage in such
a fraud for a few thousand
dollars?
>>
Honestly,
I can't see the logic of paying a $20,000 retainer for an item that
was
sold for $7,500 in the first place. I also don't see that the seller has
a legal
leg to stand on, or any chance of "winning" this suit, which sounds
frivolous
to me.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 00:05:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: You_Be Fine
<AngelMindz@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Before you reach into your pocket...
In a
message dated 97-11-25 23:45:38 EST, you write:
<<
with all due respect, why don't you do this. and lets us all tred very
carefully. as i don't want to hear the other
shoe drop until after the
dreaded holidays are over. i need my
beat-l >>
I'm not
interested in the subject and don't want to spend the time. I want to
talk
about jack. and yeah, I saw that site at Levi's and it's
GRRRRRRRRRR-EAT!
I'll
make a holiday pact here with you and everyone else: I vow not to
participate
in anything resembling a flame war regarding the controversial
issues
we've all suffered through on this newsgroup for the last year until
AFTER
the holidays.
Are you
with me? Ho-ho-ho!!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 05:11:57 UT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri
<love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Before you reach into your pocket...
if the
seller stipulated things, agreement upon which the sale was contingent,
and the
purchaser defaults, then the purchaser is
in breach of contract.
aside
from that, YBF, a library is a public place, funded publicly, for public
use. it has a public responsibility to properly
care for the items it has
procured
with public funds. it also cannot
withhold any but extremely
valuable
items from its users - and even those are made available to
professionals
of good scholarly repute, for study. if
the library is not
doing
the above, then it is failing in its public trust and should be divested
of
anything which is being handled in a contrary manner.
ciao,
sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
You_Be Fine
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 1997 8:53 PM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: Before you reach into your
pocket...
In a
message dated 97-11-25 23:43:17 EST, you write:
<<
Do you really think anyone would go to the
trouble of filing a law suit
against a major university to rip people off for some donations? Do you
think a respected writer would engage in such
a fraud for a few thousand
dollars?
>>
Honestly,
I can't see the logic of paying a $20,000 retainer for an item that
was
sold for $7,500 in the first place. I also don't see that the seller has
a legal
leg to stand on, or any chance of "winning" this suit, which sounds
frivolous
to me.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:14:16 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: delete
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
delete
is it
beat to delete
i can
throw a book away if
it is
missing a soul.
do
books have souls. do they go to heavon.
if i hit the numbers man
i would
buy old tapes of william
crooning
on to me of what it was to know
and
kick around with jack and allen.
how spare ass annie
leaning
on a lampost
looked
to allen.
on the
corner of newyork.
the
agony of watching
jack
loose interest in talking,
over
lunch, dead at 11:am
i would
hike over brooklyn bridge
into a
cool blue roofed room in tangiers.
If the
number man would give me copies
of
allen, squeezing his penis gently in
overflowing
joy.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 00:45:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Judith Campbell
<judith@BOONDOCK.COM>
Subject: Estate Debate
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Not
since the OJ trial have I wished so much for a gag order.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 02:37:38 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: On The Road to Big Sur - Trip Trap
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
You do
be fine "You-be-fine"...
Thanks very much for the lengthy post
about "Trip Trap". I've tended
almost
uniformly to take a pass on the philosophical threads/posts that have
been
going by. Something about yours grabbed me, perhaps because it was tied
to real
people's reports of the events around their lives. I will look for
"Trip
Trap." Thanks again.
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"Blessed are they who can laugh at
themselves, for they shall never
cease
to be amused."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 02:10:06 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Before you reach into your pocket...
In-Reply-To:
<971125235315_1672083065@mrin41.mail.aol.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>In
a message dated 97-11-25 23:43:17 EST, you write:
>
><<
> Do
you really think anyone would go to the trouble of filing a law suit
>
against a major university to rip
people off for some donations? Do you
>
think a respected writer would engage in such a fraud for a few thousand
>
dollars? >>
>
>Honestly,
I can't see the logic of paying a $20,000 retainer for an item that
>was
sold for $7,500 in the first place. I also don't see that the seller has
>a
legal leg to stand on, or any chance of "winning" this suit, which
sounds
>frivolous
to me.
There
are hundreds of taped interviews that will be lost, forever, if
preservation
measures are not taken to save the tapes. These are interviews
with
people who knew Jack Keroauc intimately, Burroughs was interviewed,
many
other writers, Kerouac's wives and lovers, very close women and men
friends.
To many people this information is so important that considerable
time
and money will be spent insuring that the collection is removed from U
Mass,
Lowell to a library that has a presevation lab and preservation
librarians
who work hard to preserve collections that have been placed in
their
care--entrusted to them.
I don't
want to get into a big thing over this, but I feel very strongly
about
the conservation and preservation of historic documents--particularly
material
that is stored in or on unstable
material. The life of magnetic
tape is
short. Everyone knows this. We simply cannot allow the information
on
those tapes to be lost.
Forget
about the tapes in the Memory Babe Archive for a minute.and let me
mention
another project so you don't think Memory Babe is the only
information
I'm concerned about. Wisconsin has the second largest
population
of Hmong in the U.S. These remarkable people arrived here
without
any history other than their stories. Their history is passed down
generation
to generation verbally--it is not written. Cultural shock is
taking
a terrible toll of these people--particularly the seniors. The
seniors
carry the history in their minds. Everytime one of them dies they
lose,
WE LOSE, Hmong history. Can you imagine not having a history. Not
knowing
the what, where, why, when and how of yourself, your parents, your
grandparents?
No serious, concentrated effort is being made to record the
history
of the Hmong. To most is seems unimportant. It demands an
expenditure
of funds states do not feel they can spend. Taxpayers are
reluctant.
Not a good situation. What should be done to preserve this
history?
Is it
as important as the travels of Lewis and Clark? The Vietnam War. My
Lai.
Two New Jersey teen agers commiting suicide to protest a war. Letters
your
grandmother wrote. An old diary.
What
should be done to preserve the scattered fragments of Bukowski,
Burroughs,
Ginsberg, Kerouac, and hundreds of others--some minor, some
major.
Little things here and there. A note. A few words. What Ginsberg
said
about Nicosia while we were talking one evening. A few words while
autographing
his high schol yearbook picture for me. Fragments. Safe.
Preserved.
The
work to raise money to save this archive is simply that. To save
information
that someone, someday, will use. A small bit of information
that
helps form a link to another little piece of information and another
and
another and another and we learn.
Just
the tid-bits one picks up on this list are sometimes mind-blowing.
Example.
Today I
added a picture of Meridel LeSueur to the page that has information
about
the last book she wrote at age 93. The Dread Road. The picture was a
quick
snapshop Charlie Plymell took of Meridel in an elevator at Westbeth,
an artist
commune in NYC over ten years ago. Plymell learned of my interest
in
Meridel on this list. Meridel was in NYC for the book publishing
gathering
the Feminist Press was having for the anthology of Meridel's work
"RIPENING:
The Writings of Meridel LeSueur.... "
She invited Plymell to
the
gathering. An incredible book.. A picture from Plymell to BookZen to
the
World Wide Web. From me to the Minnesota Historical Society, with a
copy
going to Special Collection at the University if Iowa. Is this picture
important? Are Plymell's notes on the meeting
important? Is the
conversation
he and Meridel had that day important? Are Meridel's notes
about
the meeting with Plymell important. When compared fifty years from
now
what will some researcher discover about these two remarkable
observers.
Hundreds of her notebooks are slowly being transcribed.
Important?
To some people yes. To students studying the Great Depression
Meridel's
notes, fiction, poetry, recorded words are priceless. What did
Meridel
pass on to one of her grandchildren who put together the first
Native
American radio station on an Indian reservation?
Her
notes will tell us...something. But they have to be preserved, cared
for,
cherished. Preservation Librarians and
others, do that--preserve
information.
Please
people, just let this thing happen. Please understand that what this
is
about is saving information that, since you are into Beat History,
should
be as important to you as it is to the person who gathered the
information,
and the people who want to study the information.
Sorry
for the length of this post. So scattered. Fragmented. Too tired to
dig in
and edit. My much better half, a preservation librarian, would have
said it
better while being appalled that it needed saying at all.
This is
it. Nothing more from me.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line by 11-27-97
http://www.bookzen.com
592,901 Visitors
07-01-96 to 11-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 05:00:58 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Lachlan Jobbins
<hipster66@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Herbert Huncke
Content-Type:
text/plain
Has anyone picked up the new(ish) 'herbert
huncke reader'?
Having just received it from barnes and
noble the other day I am
thoroughly
enjoying what I have read so far. Huncke has several short
pieces
in Charters' 'Portable Beat reader' but these I think fail to
represent
the overall quality of his work. When I first tried to find
Huncke's
Journal, The Evening Sun Turned Crimson and Guilty of
Everything
I was disappointed to find them all out of print.
This collection includes large sections
from these books as well as
other
uncollected material. Perhaps we could start a new
thread/discussion?
Personally I'm very impressed with the combination of
existentialist
thought and fiendish behaviour in what I've read so far.
Huncke is easily as perceptive a reporter
as John Clellon Holmes
(another
whom I have a great respect for), and in many ways I think his
engagement
with his subject equals that of Kerouac.
Just a thought, 'cos I haven't seen him
mentioned for a while.
Love to hear your thoughts.
Lachlan.
P.S.:
Has anyone got a copy of Lawrence Lipton's 'The Holy Barbarians'
for
sale? I read it last year in a library and would like to get my
hands
on a copy for keeps. Thanks. L.
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:35:06 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: delete
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
beautiful
and very pertinent for the time, patricia; i too don't want
the
list to dive back into the debate. i think it is beat to delete, and
rather
than stoke the fires, i will do so.
you
shed light in the darkness and lay a balm on me(i would hope on all)
today
as i write this i am listening to jack reciting, right now he is
asking
buddhacharlieparker to 'lay a balm on us all.
have a
good holiday,
patricia.
the list needs your quiet soul and your tender love for
william,
for all.
thankyou
mc
Patricia
Elliott wrote:
>
delete
> is
it beat to delete
> i
can throw a book away if
> it
is missing a soul.
> do
books have souls. do they go to heavon.
> if i hit the numbers man
> i
would buy old tapes of william
>
crooning on to me of what it was to know
>
and kick around with jack and allen.
> how spare ass annie
>
leaning on a lampost
>
looked to allen.
> on
the corner of newyork.
>
the agony of watching
>
jack loose interest in talking,
>
over lunch, dead at 11:am
> i
would hike over brooklyn bridge
>
into a cool blue roofed room in tangiers.
> If
the number man would give me copies
> of
allen, squeezing his penis gently in
>
overflowing joy.
> p
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:38:51 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Before you reach into your pocket...
In-Reply-To:
<971125235315_1672083065@mrin41.mail.aol.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I agree
wholeheartedly. From what I hear, UMass is usually pretty good at
preserving
its archives. For everyone's peace of mind, before donating
the
money for a lousy tshirt, check out UMass on your own.
On Tue,
25 Nov 1997, You_Be Fine wrote:
> In
a message dated 97-11-25 23:43:17 EST, you write:
>
>
<<
> Do you really think anyone would go to the
trouble of filing a law suit
> against a major university to rip people off for some donations? Do you
> think a respected writer would engage in
such a fraud for a few thousand
> dollars?
>>
>
>
Honestly, I can't see the logic of paying a $20,000 retainer for an item that
>
was sold for $7,500 in the first place. I also don't see that the seller has
> a
legal leg to stand on, or any chance of "winning" this suit, which
sounds
>
frivolous to me.
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:43:53 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: delete
In-Reply-To: <347BB028.78F@sunflower.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Exquisite
Patricia.
j grant
>delete
>is
it beat to delete
>i
can throw a book away if
>it
is missing a soul.
>do
books have souls. do they go to heavon.
> if
i hit the numbers man
>i
would buy old tapes of william
>crooning
on to me of what it was to know
>and
kick around with jack and allen.
>
how spare ass annie
>leaning
on a lampost
>looked
to allen.
>on
the corner of newyork.
>the
agony of watching
>jack
loose interest in talking,
>over
lunch, dead at 11:am
>i
would hike over brooklyn bridge
>into
a cool blue roofed room in tangiers.
>If
the number man would give me copies
>of
allen, squeezing his penis gently in
>overflowing
joy.
>p
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line by 11-27-97
http://www.bookzen.com
592,901 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 07:43:05 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher
<brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Before you reach into your pocket...
In-Reply-To: <971126000555_-255281152@mrin83.mail.aol.com>
from "You_Be Fine"
at Nov 26, 97 00:05:55 am
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>
I'll make a holiday pact here with you and everyone else: I vow not to
>
participate in anything resembling a flame war regarding the controversial
>
issues we've all suffered through on this newsgroup for the last year until
>
AFTER the holidays.
I vote
yes on this proposal! But "can the
center hold"?
>
I'm not interested in the subject and don't want to spend the time. I want to
>
talk about jack. and yeah, I saw that site at Levi's and it's
>
GRRRRRRRRRR-EAT!
Thanks,
and thanks to everybody who said they liked it. Well,
BEAT-L
is a great place to find material (thanks again Patricia),
and I
just hope it stays that way.
Also by
the way for anybody who's around New York City next Tuesday,
I'm
going to be debuting a few minutes from the secret project I've
been
working on for over a year, a digital movie version of
Dostoevsky's
"Notes From Underground" updated to take place in
modern-day
Manhattan. It's strange as hell, and
that's all I
can
say. Anyway this'll be part of a web
writer's reading
at 7pm
December 2nd at 678 Broadway (near 4th Street), and
is
being arranged by my friend Xander Mellish (more info at
http://www.xmel.com/webwriters.html).
Okay,
enough plugging ... thanks again for all the nice words
about
"Sliced Bardo" ... happy thanksgiving everybody.
-------------------------------------------------------
| Levi
Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
|
|
|
| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (the beat literature web site) |
|
|
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
| |
|
*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---* |
|
|
| "When I was crazy, I thought you
were great" |
| -- Ric
Ocasek |
-------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:21:26 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "THE SNARK IS A BOOJUM...."
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Burroughs archives
For
those of you who were interested in the Burroughs archives at Ohio State
University,
I may have some information for you soon.James Grauerholz called me
up and
asked if I wanted to do some photo reasearch for a new biography on
Burroughs.Of
course I said yes, so I hope to begin soon.The book will be pub-
lished by the Bloomsbury Press, same as did
the Kerouac book; ANGLEHEADED
HIPSTER. As soon as I know more, I will pass
it on to everyone.
Don't forget to read WSB's Thanksgiving
Prayer before dinner tomorrow.
---Dave
B.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:54:00 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Bill Gargan and Beat-L
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sent
using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) - The FREE way to
access your mailbox via any web browser,
anywhere!
Bill
Gargan and Beat-L,
If any
of my regular correspondents have been wondering where I have gone--I
have suffered a computer crash. Am now trying to catch up at my fathers--all
459 messages! I'll be back, ready or not.
Bill--I
don't have the "unsubscribe" address. Could you unsub me until I can
start dealing with this mail flow?
Meanwhile. If anyone truly wants to reach me it will require a
call--650-365-6312.
Happy
Thanksgiving.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:55:57 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Before you reach into your pocket...
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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At
11:53 PM 11/25/97 -0500, you wrote:
>In
a message dated 97-11-25 23:43:17 EST, you write:
>
><<
> Do
you really think anyone would go to the trouble of filing a law suit
>
against a major university to rip
people off for some donations? Do you
>
think a respected writer would engage in such a fraud for a few thousand
>
dollars? >>
>
>Honestly,
I can't see the logic of paying a $20,000 retainer for an item that
>was
sold for $7,500 in the first place. I also don't see that the seller has
>a
legal leg to stand on, or any chance of "winning" this suit, which
sounds
>frivolous
to me.
>
>
The 20K
retainer is for legal fess. Sad isn't
it that lawyer fees are worth
more
than historical documents and interviews.
But on
the other hand it is not sad. It
doesn't matter how much they can
fetch
(eg $7500) what matters is their interest.
I believe in preservation
of
things. That ostensibly is what
libraries should do. In terms of the
Lowell
Library's side of it I am waiting for you to talk to them and let us
know.
One
comment I have is what about the publisher of Memory Babe. I would hope
they
might take an interest in these documents and hopefully would be
interested
in provided funding.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:02:36 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Before you reach into your pocket...
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
07:43 AM 11/26/97 -0800, you wrote:
>>
I'll make a holiday pact here with you and everyone else: I vow not to
>>
participate in anything resembling a flame war regarding the controversial
>>
issues we've all suffered through on this newsgroup for the last year until
>>
AFTER the holidays.
>
>I
vote yes on this proposal! But
"can the center hold"?
I vote
yes!!!!!!!!!!
I love
the archive debates.
(And I
am not a participant in them--I have no vested interest at all).
I would
say that this plea by You_be_Fine would carry a little more weight
if he
wasn't the one who cast the first stone (and answered the first return
volley
as well).
He
starts a flame war and then starts saying "let's not have a flame
war."
You_Be_Fine,
your posts on Kerouac's writings are really good and full of
info
and familiarity and knowledge. I enjoy
them.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:15:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "L.W. Deal"
<RoadSide6@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Gap Ad
In a
message dated 97-11-25 08:48:57 EST, you write:
<<
> Has anyone actually bought a pair of GAP
khakis. It would be
> interesting to discover whether this ad
campaign actually did
> any good. After all, we're all Jack cognescenti, at a minimum,
> so did any of us right down and get a
pair of Jack GAP Khaks?
> WAiting to hear from the 250 of anyone
bit on the bait.
>
> Mike Rice
>>
"Not
I," said the fly...
-LD
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:47:58 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Gap Ad
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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At
01:15 PM 11/26/97 -0500, you wrote:
>In
a message dated 97-11-25 08:48:57 EST, you write:
>
><<
>
> Has anyone actually bought a pair of GAP khakis. It would be
>
> interesting to discover whether this ad campaign actually did
>
> any good. After all, we're all
Jack cognescenti, at a minimum,
>
> so did any of us right down and get a pair of Jack GAP Khaks?
>
> WAiting to hear from the 250 of anyone bit on the bait.
>
>
>
> Mike Rice
Yes as
soon as i saw this ad i immediately walked to my car and drove to the
mall.
It was
6 am in the morning and i was not yet dressed but i was compelled I
waited
for 4 hours outside the little gratelike protective door until an
employee
came and unlocked the bottom of it and pulled the grate up
chukkachukkahcukka
i then
walked in to the store as i removed my wallet and removed all my
credit
cards from the wallet and held them in the palm of my mind with my
arm
oustretch palm up and approached the worker there.
Khakis
i said
khakis
use my
credit cards i have thousands dollar limit please use all
khakis
to make
a long story short:
GAP
Khakis 8 bucks apiece 5 for 35 20 for 125
email
me shipping paid at my end
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 14:13:03 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Bill Gargan and Beat-L
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:54:00 -0800
from
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Happy
Thanksgiving, James. Sorry to hear
about your computer problem. I've de
leted
you from the list. You can resubscribe
or email me when you're ready and
I'll put you back on.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:39:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Before you reach into your pocket...
In-Reply-To: <199711261802.KAA13431@hsc.usc.edu>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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>At
07:43 AM 11/26/97 -0800, you wrote:
>>>
I'll make a holiday pact here with you and everyone else: I vow not to
>>>
participate in anything resembling a flame war regarding the controversial
>>>
issues we've all suffered through on this newsgroup for the last year until
>>>
AFTER the holidays.
>>
>>I
vote yes on this proposal! But
"can the center hold"?
>
>
>I
vote yes!!!!!!!!!!
>
>I
love the archive debates.
>
>(And
I am not a participant in them--I have no vested interest at all).
>
>I
would say that this plea by You_be_Fine would carry a little more weight
>if
he wasn't the one who cast the first stone (and answered the first return
>volley
as well).
>
>He
starts a flame war and then starts saying "let's not have a flame
war."
>
>You_Be_Fine,
your posts on Kerouac's writings are really good and full of
>info
and familiarity and knowledge. I enjoy
them.
I must
have missed something. I cannot remember seeing anything resembling
a flame
from a pro-preservation post. If there has been I'd appreciate
having
them forwarded to me because that is a waste of time and energy.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details
on-line by 11-27-97
http://www.bookzen.com
592,901 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:45:39 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "Lawlor, William"
<wlawlor@UWSP.EDU>
Subject: montgomery, john
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain
Ah,
friends, is it true that John Montgomery died in 1993?
And
that new book on Beat women from Serpent's Tail! In what city does
that
press exist? and is the book a 1997 publication?
Best,
Bill of
the North Woods
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:59:39 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Bill Gargan and Beat-L
Content-Type:
text/plain
>Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:54:00 -0800
>Reply-To:stauffer@PACBELL.NET
>From:
James Stauffer <>
>Subject: Birthday Bash
>Sent
using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) - The
FREE
way to
>
access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere!
>
If I
don't get an answer from you I will call you this evening. I
thought
I would give it a try since MailStart works like Hot Mail which
I am
using from a computer at work right now.
On
Saturday December 6 at 9 p.m. ther will be a surprise birthday party
for
Ramah Downtown San Jose at the Germania. I hope you can make it. It
should
be fun.
I guess
a computer crash is a minor disaster these days. Hopefully you
are on
your way to recovery.
Happy
Thanksgiving
leon
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 15:29:30 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Serpent's Tail ...and montgomery, john
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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Hi all,
I'll let someone else speak to the
John Montgomery question.
Regarding the Serpent's Tail book - a
gift from my first born on my
birthday
a few weeks ago - it is excellent. I've been meaning to post about
it and
must have missed any earlier posts about it.
My copy was bought here
in
Montreal, editor Richard Peabody, High Risk / Serpent'ss Tail books,
published
in 1997, London and New York, web site www.serpentstail.com.
A wonderful range of memoir extracts,
poetry, and reportage with
nice
punchy little bios of the players at the back. Really expanded my
knowledge
and appreciateion of these writers, particularly Hettie Jones, Jan
Kerouac,
Carolyn Cassady, Joan Haverty Kerouac, Mimi Albert, Diane Di
Prima....all
of them and I haven't even dealt with the poetry yet!
Recommended. I really raced through
the prose parts.
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"Blessed are they who can laugh at
themselves, for they shall never
cease
to be amused."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 15:32:53 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: a terrible beatuty is born(was estate
shit)
MIME-Version:
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Content-Type:
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x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Timothy
K. Gallaher wrote:
> At
07:43 AM 11/26/97 -0800, you wrote:
>
>> I'll make a holiday pact here with you and everyone else: I vow not to
>
>> participate in anything resembling a flame war regarding the
controversial
>
>> issues we've all suffered through on this newsgroup for the last year
until
>
>> AFTER the holidays.
>
>
>
>I vote yes on this proposal! But
"can the center hold"?
>
> I
vote yes!!!!!!!!!!
>
_________
easter
1916i have met them at close of day
coming
with vivid faces
from
counter or desk among grey
eighteenth-century
houses.
i have
passed with a nod of the head
or
polite meaningless words,
or have
lingered a while and said
polite
meaningless words,
and
thought before i had done
of a
mocking tale or a gibe
to
please a companion
around
the fire at the club,
being
certain that they and i
but
lived where motley is worn:
all
changed, changed utterly:
a
terrible beauty is born.
that
woman's days were spent
in
ignorant good-will,
her
nights in argument
until
her voice grew shrill.
what
voice more sweet than hers
when,
young and beautiful,
she
rode to harriers?
this
man had kept a school
and
rode our winged horse;
this
other his helper and friend
was
coming into his force;
he
might have won fame in the end,
so sensitive
his nature seemed,
so
daring and sweet his thought.
this
other man i had dreamed
a
drunken, vainglorious lout.
he had
done most bitter wrong
to
someone near my heart,'
yet i
number him in the song;
he ,
too, has resigned his part
in the
casual comedy;
he,
too, has been changed in his turn,
transformed
utterly:
a
terrible beauty is born.
hearts
with one purpose alone
through
summer and winter seem
enchanted
to a stone
to
trouble the living stream.
the
horse that comes from the road,
the
rider, the birds that range
from
cloud to tumbling cloud,
minute
by minute they change;
a
shadow of cloud on the stream
changes
minute by minute;
a
horse-hoof slides on the brim,
and a
horse plashes within it;
the
long-legged moor-hens dive,
the
long-legged moor-cocks call;
miute
by minute they live:
the
stone's in the midst of it all.
too
long a sacrifice
can
make a stone of the heart.
o when
may it suffice?
that is
heaven's part, our part
to
murmur name upon name,
as a
mother names her child
when
sleep at last has come
on
limbs that had run wild.
what is
it but nightffall?
no, no,
not night but death;
was it
needless death after all?
for
england may keep faith
for all
that is done and said.
we know
their dream; enough
to know
they dream and are dead:
and
what if excess of love
bewildered
them till they died?
i write
it out in a verse-
MacDonagh
and MacBride
and
Connolly and Pearse
now and
in time to be
wherever
green is worn,
all
changed, changed utterly:
a
terrible beauty is born.
an
easter poem for thanksgiving, and a belief the center will hold, at least
here,
in beat-l
have a
great day all
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 16:27:38 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: You_Be Fine
<AngelMindz@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Gap Ad
In a
message dated 97-11-26 14:19:04 EST, you write:
<<
i then walked in to the store as i removed my
wallet and removed all my
credit cards from the wallet and held them in
the palm of my mind with my
arm oustretch palm up and approached the
worker there.
Khakis i said
khakis
use my credit cards i have thousands dollar
limit please use all
khakis
>>
absolutely
fucken hilarious, tim! do you take mastercard?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:50:17 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: allow me to...
In-Reply-To: <yam7269.1953.2825864@pac.com.au>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
John
Pullicino <jjpull@PAC.COM.AU> says:
>g'day
all,
>
[snip]
>i've
been an avid reader of kerouac and other beat writers since 1965 when
>as
a schoolboy i came across a hardback edition of 'on the road' in one of
>the
secondhand bookstores i used to haunt - i think it was the 'girls!
>jazz!
booze!' on the cover (predating 'sex'n'drugs'nrock'nroll?) that got
>my
attention. learning more here of course.............
[snip]
john, the same feeling for me,
thinking about "on the road".
i think back over the past, and
remember the on the road as
a story of a salesman (death of a
salesman). the american way
of life, religious of course, but keen competition and no
pity for the loser. (Sur...
saluti, rinaldo.
p.s.
techno pun nostalgia, the Amiga 1000 was my first serious
puter. i brought it on autumn 1986.
now it's gone but a tear
was/is on my eyes...
(to
everyone, please excuse me for the digression),
r.
>--
>bye
for now,
>#<|||||||||||||||||||||||>#
John Pullicino #<|||||||||||||||||||||||>#
>(|||||||||||||||||||) #jjpull@pac.com.au# (|||||||||||||||||||)
>#<|||||||||||||>#
*Team AMIGA WorldWide* #<|||||||||||||||>#
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 23:15:47 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Stuck Inside of Mobile
In-Reply-To: <yam7269.1953.2825864@pac.com.au>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
http://bob.nbr.no/dok/bdx/stuck.html
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 14:50:06 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: sherri
<love_singing@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: a terrible beatuty is born(was
estate shit)
MIME-Version:
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boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01BCFA7A.965C0B60"
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utterly
beautiful marie. thanks for posting
this. i vote yes as well. =
this is
a time of year when all should be gentle and easy and enjoy. i =
believe
the center will hold.
Happy
Thanksgiving to all of you!!
ciao, sherri
-----Original
Message-----
From:
Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date:
Wednesday, November 26, 1997 12:49 PM
Subject:
a terrible beatuty is born(was estate shit)
>Timothy
K. Gallaher wrote:
>
>>
At 07:43 AM 11/26/97 -0800, you wrote:
>>
>> I'll make a holiday pact here with you and everyone else: I vow =
not to
>>
>> participate in anything resembling a flame war regarding the =
controversial
>>
>> issues we've all suffered through on this newsgroup for the last =
year
until
>>
>> AFTER the holidays.
>>
>
>>
>I vote yes on this proposal! But
"can the center hold"?
>>
>>
I vote yes!!!!!!!!!!
>>
_________
>
>easter
1916i have met them at close of day
>coming
with vivid faces
>from
counter or desk among grey
>eighteenth-century
houses.
>i
have passed with a nod of the head
>or
polite meaningless words,
>or
have lingered a while and said
>polite
meaningless words,
>and
thought before i had done
>of
a mocking tale or a gibe
>to
please a companion
>around
the fire at the club,
>being
certain that they and i
>but
lived where motley is worn:
>all
changed, changed utterly:
>a
terrible beauty is born.
>
>that
woman's days were spent
>in
ignorant good-will,
>her
nights in argument
>until
her voice grew shrill.
>what
voice more sweet than hers
>when,
young and beautiful,
>she
rode to harriers?
>this
man had kept a school
>and
rode our winged horse;
>this
other his helper and friend
>was
coming into his force;
>he
might have won fame in the end,
>so
sensitive his nature seemed,
>so
daring and sweet his thought.
>
>this
other man i had dreamed
>a
drunken, vainglorious lout.
>he
had done most bitter wrong
>to
someone near my heart,'
>yet
i number him in the song;
>he
, too, has resigned his part
>in
the casual comedy;
>he,
too, has been changed in his turn,
>transformed
utterly:
>a
terrible beauty is born.
>
>hearts
with one purpose alone
>through
summer and winter seem
>enchanted
to a stone
>to
trouble the living stream.
>the
horse that comes from the road,
>the
rider, the birds that range
>from
cloud to tumbling cloud,
>minute
by minute they change;
>a
shadow of cloud on the stream
>changes
minute by minute;
>a
horse-hoof slides on the brim,
>and
a horse plashes within it;
>the
long-legged moor-hens dive,
>the
long-legged moor-cocks call;
>miute
by minute they live:
>the
stone's in the midst of it all.
>
>too
long a sacrifice
>can
make a stone of the heart.
>o
when may it suffice?
>that
is heaven's part, our part
>to
murmur name upon name,
>as
a mother names her child
>when
sleep at last has come
>on
limbs that had run wild.
>what
is it but nightffall?
>no,
no, not night but death;
>was
it needless death after all?
>
>for
england may keep faith
>for
all that is done and said.
>we
know their dream; enough
>to
know they dream and are dead:
>and
what if excess of love
>bewildered
them till they died?
>i
write it out in a verse-
>MacDonagh
and MacBride
>and
Connolly and Pearse
>now
and in time to be
>wherever
green is worn,
>all
changed, changed utterly:
>a
terrible beauty is born.
>
>an
easter poem for thanksgiving, and a belief the center will hold, at =
least
>here,
in beat-l
>have
a great day all
>mc
>
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BCFA7A.965C0B60
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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META
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</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript size=3D5>utterly =
beautiful
marie. =20
thanks
for posting this. i vote yes as well. this is a time =
of year=20
when
all should be gentle and easy and enjoy. i believe the center =
will=20
hold.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript =
size=3D5></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript size=3D5>Happy =
Thanksgiving
to all of=20
you!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript =
size=3D5></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript size=3D5>ciao, =20
sherri</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
face=3DArial size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: =
Marie=20
Countryman
<<A=20
href=3D"mailto:country@SOVER.NET">country@SOVER.NET</A>><BR>To:
<A=20
href=3D"mailto:BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU">BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU</A>
<<A =
href=3D"mailto:BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU">BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU</A>><BR>=
Date:=20
Wednesday,
November 26, 1997 12:49 PM<BR>Subject: a terrible beatuty is =
born(was=20
estate
shit)<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>>Timothy K.
Gallaher=20
wrote:<BR>><BR>>>
At 07:43 AM 11/26/97 -0800, you =
wrote:<BR>>>=20
>>
I'll make a holiday pact here with you and everyone else: I vow =
not=20
to<BR>>>
>> participate in anything resembling a flame war =
regarding=20
the
controversial<BR>>> >> issues we've all suffered
through =
on
this=20
newsgroup
for the last year until<BR>>> >> AFTER the=20
holidays.<BR>>>
><BR>>> >I vote yes on this =
proposal! =20
But
"can the center
hold"?<BR>>><BR>>> I vote=20
yes!!!!!!!!!!<BR>>>
_________<BR>><BR>>easter 1916i have met =
them
at=20
close
of day<BR>>coming with vivid faces<BR>>from counter
or desk =
among=20
grey<BR>>eighteenth-century
houses.<BR>>i have passed with a nod =
of
the=20
head<BR>>or
polite meaningless words,<BR>>or have lingered a while =
and=20
said<BR>>polite
meaningless words,<BR>>and thought before i had=20
done<BR>>of
a mocking tale or a gibe<BR>>to please a=20
companion<BR>>around
the fire at the club,<BR>>being certain that =
they
and=20
i<BR>>but
lived where motley is worn:<BR>>all changed, changed=20
utterly:<BR>>a
terrible beauty is born.<BR>><BR>>that woman's =
days
were=20
spent<BR>>in
ignorant good-will,<BR>>her nights in =
argument<BR>>until=20
her
voice grew shrill.<BR>>what voice more sweet than =
hers<BR>>when,
young=20
and
beautiful,<BR>>she rode to harriers?<BR>>this man had
kept a=20
school<BR>>and
rode our winged horse;<BR>>this other his helper =
and=20
friend<BR>>was
coming into his force;<BR>>he might have won fame =
in
the=20
end,<BR>>so
sensitive his nature seemed,<BR>>so daring and sweet =
his=20
thought.<BR>><BR>>this
other man i had dreamed<BR>>a drunken,=20
vainglorious
lout.<BR>>he had done most bitter wrong<BR>>to =
someone
near=20
my
heart,'<BR>>yet i number him in the song;<BR>>he ,
too, has =
resigned=20
his
part<BR>>in the casual comedy;<BR>>he, too, has been
changed =
in
his=20
turn,<BR>>transformed
utterly:<BR>>a terrible beauty is=20
born.<BR>><BR>>hearts
with one purpose alone<BR>>through summer =
and=20
winter
seem<BR>>enchanted to a stone<BR>>to trouble the
living=20
stream.<BR>>the
horse that comes from the road,<BR>>the rider, the =
birds=20
that
range<BR>>from cloud to tumbling cloud,<BR>>minute by
minute =
they=20
change;<BR>>a
shadow of cloud on the stream<BR>>changes minute by=20
minute;<BR>>a
horse-hoof slides on the brim,<BR>>and a horse =
plashes=20
within
it;<BR>>the long-legged moor-hens dive,<BR>>the
long-legged =
moor-cocks
call;<BR>>miute by minute they live:<BR>>the stone's
in =
the=20
midst
of it all.<BR>><BR>>too long a
sacrifice<BR>>can make a =
stone
of=20
the
heart.<BR>>o when may it suffice?<BR>>that is
heaven's part, =
our=20
part<BR>>to
murmur name upon name,<BR>>as a mother names her=20
child<BR>>when
sleep at last has come<BR>>on limbs that had run=20
wild.<BR>>what
is it but nightffall?<BR>>no, no, not night but=20
death;<BR>>was
it needless death after all?<BR>><BR>>for =
england
may=20
keep
faith<BR>>for all that is done and said.<BR>>we know
their =
dream;=20
enough<BR>>to
know they dream and are dead:<BR>>and what if excess =
of=20
love<BR>>bewildered
them till they died?<BR>>i write it out in a=20
verse-<BR>>MacDonagh
and MacBride<BR>>and Connolly and =
Pearse<BR>>now=20
and in
time to be<BR>>wherever green is worn,<BR>>all
changed, =
changed=20
utterly:<BR>>a
terrible beauty is born.<BR>><BR>>an easter poem =
for=20
thanksgiving,
and a belief the center will hold, at least<BR>>here, =
in=20
beat-l<BR>>have
a great day all<BR>>mc<BR>></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BCFA7A.965C0B60--
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 15:03:32 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Gap Ad
Mime-Version:
1.0
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>In
a message dated 97-11-26 14:19:04 EST, you write:
>
><<
> i
then walked in to the store as i removed my wallet and removed all my
>
credit cards from the wallet and held them in the palm of my mind with my
>
arm oustretch palm up and approached the worker there.
>
>
Khakis i said
>
>
khakis
>
>
use my credit cards i have thousands dollar limit please use all
>
>
khakis
>
> >>
>absolutely
fucken hilarious, tim! do you take mastercard?
you got
it !!1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 17:48:40 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: montgomery, john
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William
Lawlor wrote:
>
Ah, friends, is it true that John Montgomery died in 1993?
Yes,
sad but true. But of course his writing
and books shine on...
Jym
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 16:53:40 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Pullicino
<jjpull@PAC.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: allow me to...
In-Reply-To:
<UPMAIL14.199711260357070867@classic.msn.com>
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Hi
there Sherri, on 26-Nov-97 you wrote...
>welcome
John. how bout telling us about thos
articles you have? ciao,
ahh, i
will i will.
in the
meantime, i suspect there isn't a suffocating rigidity in here, but
can i ask
about certain protocols that people or the listmangagers may have
devised
to allow some semblance of courtesy and consideration to masquerade
benignly
as spontaneous bop prosody and freewheeeling chaos
do
people get annoyed if the posting you're replying to is quoted entirely,
with a
"Yeah! me too" appended to the end - other lists i am on train you
out of
it pretty quickly and gently. ( Sherri, /you/ did this, but if you
think
this is directed at you, you're a bad bad woman :-) )
what
about replying to the list when it may have been smarter to reply
direct
to sender
and
what about not changing the subject title to reflect that youre not
really
replying but starting a new thread, but lazily 'borrowed' the
address?
im not
a fascist, just trying to get along heeheeheee ! finding this list,
i feel
like a desert hyena who's tumbled into an oasis, and i want to swim
here
along time - i've read so much here already that's brought back that
heady
feeling i used to have as i read the beat writings- god it is so
tempting
to contact some old friends and remind them of their putdowns (not
to
mention Time mag, who relentlessy wrote off or patronised each novel
that
got published.
ps
thanks to those who sent a welcome
--
bye for
now,
#<|||||||||||||||||||||||>#
John Pullicino #<|||||||||||||||||||||||>#
(|||||||||||||||||||) #jjpull@pac.com.au# (|||||||||||||||||||)
#<|||||||||||||>#
*Team AMIGA WorldWide* #<|||||||||||||||>#
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 20:05:45 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: allow me to...
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John
Pullicino wrote:
>
> Hi
there Sherri, on 26-Nov-97 you wrote...
>
>
>welcome John. how bout telling us
about thos articles you have? ciao,
>
ahh, i will i will.
> in
the meantime, i suspect there isn't a suffocating rigidity in here, but
>
can i ask about certain protocols that people or the listmangagers may have
>
devised to allow some semblance of courtesy and consideration to masquerade
>
benignly as spontaneous bop prosody and freewheeeling chaos
>
hey
man, free wheeling chaos man, like it. cool, dig it, me too. I got
a back
channel once that told me to be more careful of my spelling. I
dug it
man. now the only thing i would like to
add is i think everyone
should only post interesting things, nothing boring.
P
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 21:03:29 -0500
Reply-To: blackj@bigmagic.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Al Aronowitz
<blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>
Subject: JOKE:INSTALLMENT #1
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There
was a strict trappist monastrry. The
monks would take turns
saying
only one thing at beakfast once a year.
It was something like
the
ideal Beat-L would be.
--
***************************************
Al
Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:12:43 -0500
Reply-To: blackj@bigmagic.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Al Aronowitz
<blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>
Subject: JOKE: INSTALLMENT #2
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When it
comes time for one of the monks to take a turn saying something,
he
says: "The rolls are nice and fresh this morning."
--
***************************************
Al
Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 07:49:08 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: more yeats (and yeah, i know it's off
topic
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the
second coming
turning
and turning in the widening gyre
the
falcon cannot hear the falconer:
things
fall apart; the center cannot hold;
mere
anarchy is loosed upon the world,
the
blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
the
ceremony of innocence is drowned;
the best
lack all conviction, while the worst
are
full of passionate intensity.
surely
some revelation is at hand;
surely
the second coming is at hand;
the
second coming! hardly are those words out
when a
vast image out of spiritus mundi
troubles
my sight: somewhere in the sands of the desert
a shape
with lion body and the head of a man
a gaze
blank and pitiless as the sun,
is
moving its slow thighs, while all about it
reel
the shadows of the indignant desert birds
the
darkness drops again; but now i know
the
twenty centuries of stonly sleep
were
vest to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
and
what rough beast its hour com round at last,
slouches
toward bethlehem to be born? 1921
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 07:58:08 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: a terrible beatuty is born(was estate shit)
MIME-Version:
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thanks
sherri. i think we all need a little dip into yeats to keep us
honest.
i just posted the widening gyre poem as well.
and
it's two weeks until i get on that train!!! yahoooo!!!!!!!!!
i'm
already packing !
marie
sherri
wrote:
> utterly beautiful marie. thanks for posting this. i vote yes as
>
well. this is a time of year when all
should be gentle and easy and
>
enjoy. i believe the center will hold.
Happy Thanksgiving to all of
>
you!! ciao, sherri-----Original
Message-----
>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
> To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>
Date: Wednesday, November 26, 1997 12:49 PM
>
Subject: a terrible beatuty is born(was estate shit)>Timothy K.
>
Gallaher wrote:
>
>
>
>> At 07:43 AM 11/26/97 -0800, you wrote:
>
>> >> I'll make a holiday pact here with you and everyone else: I
vow
>
not to
>
>> >> participate in anything resembling a flame war regarding the
>
controversial
>
>> >> issues we've all suffered through on this newsgroup for the
last
>
year until
>
>> >> AFTER the holidays.
>
>> >
>
>> >I vote yes on this proposal!
But "can the center hold"?
>
>>
>
>> I vote yes!!!!!!!!!!
>
>> _________
>
>
>
>easter 1916i have met them at close of day
>
>coming with vivid faces
>
>from counter or desk among grey
>
>eighteenth-century houses.
>
>i have passed with a nod of the head
>
>or polite meaningless words,
>
>or have lingered a while and said
>
>polite meaningless words,
>
>and thought before i had done
>
>of a mocking tale or a gibe
>
>to please a companion
>
>around the fire at the club,
>
>being certain that they and i
>
>but lived where motley is worn:
>
>all changed, changed utterly:
>
>a terrible beauty is born.
>
>
>
>that woman's days were spent
>
>in ignorant good-will,
>
>her nights in argument
>
>until her voice grew shrill.
>
>what voice more sweet than hers
>
>when, young and beautiful,
>
>she rode to harriers?
>
>this man had kept a school
>
>and rode our winged horse;
>
>this other his helper and friend
>
>was coming into his force;
>
>he might have won fame in the end,
>
>so sensitive his nature seemed,
>
>so daring and sweet his thought.
>
>
>
>this other man i had dreamed
>
>a drunken, vainglorious lout.
>
>he had done most bitter wrong
>
>to someone near my heart,'
>
>yet i number him in the song;
>
>he , too, has resigned his part
>
>in the casual comedy;
>
>he, too, has been changed in his turn,
>
>transformed utterly:
>
>a terrible beauty is born.
>
>
>
>hearts with one purpose alone
>
>through summer and winter seem
>
>enchanted to a stone
>
>to trouble the living stream.
>
>the horse that comes from the road,
>
>the rider, the birds that range
>
>from cloud to tumbling cloud,
>
>minute by minute they change;
>
>a shadow of cloud on the stream
>
>changes minute by minute;
>
>a horse-hoof slides on the brim,
>
>and a horse plashes within it;
>
>the long-legged moor-hens dive,
>
>the long-legged moor-cocks call;
>
>miute by minute they live:
>
>the stone's in the midst of it all.
>
>
>
>too long a sacrifice
>
>can make a stone of the heart.
>
>o when may it suffice?
>
>that is heaven's part, our part
>
>to murmur name upon name,
>
>as a mother names her child
>
>when sleep at last has come
>
>on limbs that had run wild.
>
>what is it but nightffall?
>
>no, no, not night but death;
>
>was it needless death after all?
>
>
>
>for england may keep faith
>
>for all that is done and said.
>
>we know their dream; enough
>
>to know they dream and are dead:
>
>and what if excess of love
>
>bewildered them till they died?
>
>i write it out in a verse-
>
>MacDonagh and MacBride
>
>and Connolly and Pearse
>
>now and in time to be
>
>wherever green is worn,
>
>all changed, changed utterly:
>
>a terrible beauty is born.
>
>
>
>an easter poem for thanksgiving, and a belief the center will hold,
> at
least
>
>here, in beat-l
>
>have a great day all
>
>mc
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 08:30:04 -0500
Reply-To: blackj@bigmagic.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Al Aronowitz
<blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>
Subject: JOKE: INSTALLNEBT #3
MIME-Version:
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The
next year it was the second monk's turn to speak. He said, "Pass
the
butter, please."
--
***************************************
Al
Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 19:13:26 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: L'angelo caduto.
In-Reply-To: <yam7269.1953.2825864@pac.com.au>
Mime-Version:
1.0
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carissimi,
the
book "Angelheaded Hipster. A Life of Jack Kerouac"
by
Steve Turner, in italian it's called
"Jack
Kerouac. L'angelo caduto" translated by Alessandra Osti.
I think
it's a worth purcase.
strangely
(?) in the Feltrinelli's bookstore chain both J. Kerouac and
W. S.
Burroughs are arranged in the italian literature shelf.
A.
Ginsberg's books on the contrary are arranged precisely.
saluti,
Rinaldo.
*
Tristessa, maybe Keroauc's sly homage to Bonjour Tristesse
(which
had made Francoise Sagan a star overnight in 1955)
--Aram
Saroyan, foreword to Big Sur
*
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 13:56:53 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gene Lee <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: a terrible beatuty is born(was
estate shit)
Marie-
that was a so beautiful poem- especially hit me after read Michael
Collins
book no too long ago and then saw movie. great work! GT
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 15:47:30 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: L'angelo caduto.
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19971127191326.006884f8@pop.gpnet.it>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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AngelHeaded
Hipser has the best pictures. Its a costly purchase but well
worth
it.
~Nancy
On Thu,
27 Nov 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
carissimi,
>
>
the book "Angelheaded Hipster. A Life of Jack Kerouac"
> by
Steve Turner, in italian it's called
>
"Jack Kerouac. L'angelo caduto" translated by Alessandra Osti.
> I
think it's a worth purcase.
>
>
strangely (?) in the Feltrinelli's bookstore chain both J. Kerouac and
> W.
S. Burroughs are arranged in the italian literature shelf.
>
> A.
Ginsberg's books on the contrary are arranged precisely.
>
>
saluti,
>
Rinaldo.
> *
Tristessa, maybe Keroauc's sly homage to Bonjour Tristesse
>
(which had made Francoise Sagan a star overnight in 1955)
>
--Aram Saroyan, foreword to Big Sur
> *
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 20:58:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: The Kerouac Quarterly page updated!
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Happy
Thanksgiving all! We have updated the page with more news. Bob Kealing
of
Orlando, Florida writes us about his happening atJack and Memere's
cottage
of 1957-8.
Go to
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.html
Thanks! Paul....
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 21:15:34 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: allow me to...
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 26 Nov 1997 16:53:40 +1000
from
<jjpull@PAC.COM.AU>
Yes, to
all points. Whenever possible it's
better to summarize rather
than
repeat the text you're replying to. And
please, whenever the post
isn't
meant for everyone on the list, reply to the individual rather
than
the list. This is a very active list
and most of us want to make
the
best use of of time when reading our mail.
Having said all this, I
must
admit that listmembers sometimes fail to observe this netiquette.
Although
there are complaints from time to time, people on the list are
generally
pretty "laid back" and will often let these matters go. I
suppose
it's my fault, as listowner, because I don't always remind
people
enough of these things. Your note gave
me the opportunity to do
so once
again.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 14:43:54 +1000
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: John Pullicino
<jjpull@PAC.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac clippings
In-Reply-To: <347BB028.78F@sunflower.com>
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Hi
there Patricia, on 26-Nov-97 you wrote...
(at
least i think it was you, if not apologies)
asking
to know what i had collected about beat writers.
Here is
what i found in my files on Kerouac, i'll do the others (Burroughs
Ginsberg
Corso etc later, unless someone objects - i can always send
privately)
His
Death -
Melbourne
newspapers
Newsday
oct 23 1969 "First Hippie dies alone"
Herald
oct 23 1969 "No limelight at his
death"
Playboy
feb 73 - "Gone in October" John Clellon Holmes
Book
Reiews -
Dr
Sax Time May 18 1959
Maggie
Cassidy Time July 20 1959
Big
Sur Time Sept 14 1962
Pic Rolling Stone May 9 1972
Other -
"Belief
and Techniques for Modern Prose" Jack Kerouac (Evergreen Review?)
Letter
on K's "The Essentials of Spontaneous Prose" by Leroi Jones (ER)
"Conclusion
of the Railroad Earth" JK (ER vol4 no11)
"Kerouac's
Sound" Warren Tallman (ER vol4 no11)
"Jack
Kerouac and Neal Cassady - first night of the tapes" (Transatlantic
Review)
"The
Art of Fiction - XLI jack Kerouac" (Paris Review)
sorry
about where dates are missing - these files have been on the road
too!
3
questions -
has
anyone seen the movies "Pull my daisy" and "Chappaqua" ?
is it
true that there is a street in SanFran now named after him ?
does anyone
know the names of the cemetaries where Ginsberg, Burroughs and
Cassady
are buried?
--
bye for
now,
#<|||||||||||||||||||||||>#
John Pullicino #<|||||||||||||||||||||||>#
(|||||||||||||||||||) #jjpull@pac.com.au# (|||||||||||||||||||)
#<|||||||||||||>#
*Team AMIGA WorldWide* #<|||||||||||||||>#
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 23:46:40 -0500
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From: You_Be Fine
<AngelMindz@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac clippings
In a
message dated 97-11-27 23:42:07 EST, John Pullicini wrote (from way Down
Under,
I think, where it's a day or so later or earlier than here):
<<
Newsday oct 23 1969 "First Hippie dies alone"
Herald oct 23 1969 "No limelight at his death"
>>
John,
if these are strictly Australian accounts, not syndicated by some
worldwide
news bureau and not seen in the U.S., I'd love to read them. Can
you
transcribe and post them to the list?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 22:41:08 -0800
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: alan granville
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Does
anyone on beat-l know anything about the New York poet Alan
Granville?
I hear
he has a similar reputation as Buk did.
Adrien
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 00:24:24 -0600
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From: "Donald G. Jr. Lee"
<donlee@COMP.UARK.EDU>
Subject: who is Rollo Whitehead?
Comments:
To: Adrien Begrand <vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca>
In-Reply-To: <347E6784.4615@sk.sympatico.ca>
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I have
run across a couple references to this guy and was wondering if
anyone
knew anything about him...
Don Lee
The
Angel departs and where there was no fire no smoke, there is
really
a little too much gravity for your species optimum performance.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 02:26:43 -0500
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From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac clippings
John
Pullicino asked a few Q's. Here's the
answer to some of them:
Regarding
Kerouac Street in SF. Yes, there is a
Kerouac Alley in SF, right
next to
City Lights Bookstore. SF has quite a
few streets named for writers
and I
seem to recall Ferlinghetti was instrumental in getting the city
fathers
& mothers to change the name of the Alley outside of City Lights from
whatever
it was called (Aborn or something) to Kerouac.
If you sit outside
of City
Lights any Saturday for more than 20 minutes you're sure to see at
least a
few tourists snap their photo's of each other standing under the
sign. In fact, this area is such a mecca for the
faithful it is often the
specific
reason people come to SF.
Regarding
Pull My Daisy, it is a great film. I
remember first seeing it at a
showing
in a college dorm in 1973 about a year or two before I ever heard of
the
Beats. I thought it was pretty artsy at
the time, but didn't undertand
the
mesage or know who any of the players were.
It was just released on
video
about a year ago - we sell it thru our web page kerouac.com or call
1-800-KER-OUAC. The thing I like about Pull My Daisy is
Jack's narative. If
you
didn't know he was doing a spontaneous scat upon his first viewing (some
say
second viewing or two takes, but so what) you might think it disjointed
what
with the "hews & haws" and interruptions and change of thought,
but when
knowing
the story behind the story it's a wonderment to behold. A few months
ago
after having viewed it with my wife and some old friends we clicked the
VCR off
and the TV was still on tuned to some unknown channel with the sound
off and
we saw the images of a Hulk Hoganish wrestling match going on and
started
to do a spontaneous scat of what was going on with the pictures...
the
guys wrestling and the referee and the managers and the girls all decked
out and
our goofing with their thoughts and voices was the funniet thing we'd
done in
years...we couldn't stop laughing... course we had been sharing a
variety
of uninhibitors all evening...
Regarding
burials I was under the impression Cassady had been cremated and
his
ashes remain with the family. Don't
know about Ginsy or Bill, but I'm
sure
someone can tell us something.
Speaking
of Ginsy and Bill, there's something I've been meaning to tell
everyone
for months but never got to it. A
couple of days after Allen died
my wife
and I were organizing around the house and we're putting things here
and
putting things there, re-arranging & stuff and there is this one area in
our
house that is at the top of some starirs, kind of a mantle between floors
and
we're always putting stuff there but there is no real name for a place
like
this. And as we were griping with each
other saying, "Where did you say
you put
it?" "You know, that place by the stairs" I finally got fed up
and
said
"Why don't we start calling this thing something?" "What do you
mean?
Like
what, the 'mantle' or something?" "No, that's no good..." and as
Allen
had
just died and newspaper clippings were strewn about and we were listening
to Holy
Soul Jelly Roll I said, "Why don't we call it the Allen?" And my
wife
was flabbergasted..."The Allen?" she asked, looking at me like I had
two
heads..."Why
not, at least we'll both know what we're talking about". So,
anyway,
it didn't take right away, but after a while of goofing with it...
"Hey,
darlin', if you're making coffee, will you make me a cup?" "Where's
your
mug?" "It's on the Allen"... and after awhle we started to get
used to
it and
now it we don't even hardly laugh when we say it anymore... And now
we're
looking around for something to call "Bill"...
Jerry
Cimino
Fog
City
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 20:16:35 +1000
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From: John Pullicino
<jjpull@PAC.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac- reports of death
In-Reply-To:
<971127234640_30960863@mrin43.mail.aol.com>
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G'day
You_Be_Fine, on 28-Nov-97 you wrote...
(by the
way its 7:36pm friday here as i write and 2:36am friday us central)
>John,
if these are strictly Australian accounts, not syndicated by some
>worldwide
news bureau and not seen in the U.S., I'd love to read them. Can
>you
transcribe and post them to the list?
here
you go - i suspect you wont find much new in them though.
=================================================
FIRST
HIPPIE DIES ALONE (Newsday oct23 1969)
byline-
Newsday Reporter
New
York Tuesday. Jack Kerouac, the high priest of the Beat Generation,
died
at St
Petersburgh Florida today, a victim of his own philosophy.
The 47
year old writer and poet died in hospital from a massive gastric
haemorrhage
after a savage drinking bout lasting several days.
Kerouac,
whose 'drop-out' philosophy called for 'a frank enjoyment of the
pleasures
of life' was a heavy drinker and marijuana smoker.
"I
smoked more grass than anyone you ever knew in your life" he said in a
recent
interview.
All his
life, Kerouac rejected the materialism of the U.S. His novels were
freewheeling
accounts of wandering, hard drinking and pot smoking.
He
described his ideal life as 'beatific', and the word was shortened to
'beat'
and [..some five words have faded here..] became 'beatnik culture'
of the
late 1960's.
Kerouac,
who was born in Lowell Massachusetts, was almost constantly in the
limelight
during the lte 1950's during the publication of his largely
autobiographical
books.
his
first book, The Town and the City, was not successful, but his second,
On the
Road, transformed kerouac and the beat philosophy into household
names
virtually overnight.
None of
his later books hit the same peak of success, although The Dharma
Bums
and The Subterraneans made the bestseller lists.
But
Kerouac, described as the bridge between the lost generation and
Hippiedom
was rejected by the hippies, who found the beat philosophy too
aggressive.
Kerouac's
second wife, Stella, said the writer had died a lonely man.
"Nobody
came to see him when he was alive. Why would you come now when he
can't
talk to you?"
==================================================
NO
LIMELIGHT AT HIS DEATH
byline-
Australian Associated Press
New
York Tuesday. Jack Kerouac, 47, the novelist of the Beat Generation,
was a
lonely man before his death today in St Petersburgh Florida, his
wife,
Stella, said.
She
told a reporter: "He had been drinking heavily for the past few days.
He was
a very lonely man.
"Nobody
came to see him when he was alive. Why would you come now when he
can't
talk to you?"
but
Kerouac was in the limelight during the late 1950s and early 1960s,
when he
published his largely autobiographical accounts of his wanderings
across
the country during the early 1950s. His novels included 'On the
Road'
'The Dharma Bums' and 'The Subterraneans'.
His
books rejected what he considered the materialism of America, and
advocated
a freewheeling style of life that included hard drinking and
marijuana.
Kerouac
was often called 'the father of the beat generation' who bridged
the
gulf between the 'lost generation' and the 'beats'.
==============================================
mmmm -
all that typing brought back the afternoon on which i first read the
clippings,
which went straight into my wallet, where they remained during
most of
the ensuing 28 years - hence the missing words - the rest of the
afternoon
i spent in jimmy watson's winebar crossing the same bridge from
lost to
beatific..........
--
bye for
now,
#<|||||||||||||||||||||||>#
John Pullicino #<|||||||||||||||||||||||>#
(|||||||||||||||||||) #jjpull@pac.com.au# (|||||||||||||||||||)
#<|||||||||||||>#
*Team AMIGA WorldWide* #<|||||||||||||||>#
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 06:29:28 +0000
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: a terrible beatuty is born(was
estate shit)
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yeats
has always been a great fave poet of mine, esp. when he moved from
lyric
poetry to address the uprising ..
mc
Gene
Lee wrote:
>
Marie- that was a so beautiful poem- especially hit me after read Michael
>
Collins book no too long ago and then saw movie. great work! GT
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 07:22:27 -0500
Reply-To: blackj@bigmagic.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Al Aronowitz
<blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>
Subject: JOKE: INSTALLMENT #4
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The next
year, it was another monk's turn to speak.
He said, "Nice day,
isn't
it?"
--
***************************************
Al
Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 07:56:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dennis Cardwell <DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac clippings
In a
message dated 97-11-27 23:42:07 EST, you write:
<<
3 questions -
has anyone seen the movies "Pull my
daisy" and "Chappaqua" ?
is it true that there is a street in SanFran
now named after him ?
does anyone know the names of the cemetaries
where Ginsberg, Burroughs and
Cassady are buried?
>>
Pull My
Daisy plays colleges and art houses infrequently, but I have seen it.
I have an old copy of the screenplay
published by Grove Press, but now out
of
print, I think. The film is
interesting...but perhaps only as a memento
of the
times and the characters involved in the project. Kerouac Alley is a
recently
re-named, one block long alley full of dumpsters. It connects to
Columbus
Ave. in North Beach and runs between City Lights Books and Vesuvio,
one of
the best bars on this particular planet.
The street sign for Kerouac
Alley
is usually missing due to theft although a tourist shop at Pier 39 near
Fisherman's
Wharf sells knockoffs.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 09:37:25 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: You_Be Fine
<AngelMindz@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac- reports of death
In a
message dated 97-11-28 04:32:52 EST, John PullicinO, not PullicinI
wrote:
<<
all that typing brought back the afternoon on which i first read the
clippings, which went straight into my
wallet, where they remained during
most of the ensuing 28 years - hence the
missing words - the rest of the
afternoon i spent in jimmy watson's winebar
crossing the same bridge from
lost to beatific........ >>
Thank
you so much for sharing these. They really took me back, too. Imagining
these
clips living in your wallet, kept close by for 28 years as some kind of
sweet
sentimental enshrinement, was also a tender statement of the loss of
jack.
Very nice.
And it's
good to know that the bridge from beatific to lost also goes the
other
way, back to beatific, and that you were able to find your way there.
I hope
you'll be encouraged to share more of your points of view from the
other
side of the world.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 09:58:44 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: You_Be Fine
<AngelMindz@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac clippings
In a
message dated 97-11-28 02:27:08 EST, Jerry Cimino wrote:
<<
"Hey, darlin', if you're making coffee, will you make me a cup?" "Where's
your mug?" "It's on the
Allen"... and after awhle we started to get used to
it and now it we don't even hardly laugh when
we say it anymore... And now
we're looking around for something to call
"Bill"...
Jerry Cimino
Fog City
>>
I
thoroughly loved this story, and your creative naming of unknown
architectural
details. What a great idea, and of course, completely goofy, as
well.
In
fact, I enjoyed your whole letter, including the images of you all trying
to scat
to a wrestling match! I would give a week's pay to see that.
Good to
hear from you, telling personal tales, and making me thankful in the
afterglow
of Thanksgiving. Keep up the good work!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 11:07:25 -0500
Reply-To: blackj@bigmagic.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Al Aronowitz
<blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>
Subject: WHERE IS UBFINE?
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Been
trying to carry on a conversation with UBFine, who lists himself as
AngelMindz@AOL.COM
but suddenly my posts to him are being returned as
UNKNOWN.
--
***************************************
Al
Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 11:49:11 -0500
Reply-To: blackj@bigmagic.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Al Aronowitz
<blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>
Subject: UBFINE
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AngelMindz
(aka You_Be Fine---but why is he hiding his real name and
dodging
any kind of discussion?) is refusing to accept my Email. First
he
wrote: "This suit [Nicosia's] sounds frivolous to me." Then I wrote
him:
"UBFINE: Are you the misguided individual who accused Gerry
Nicosia,
one of our greatest Kerouac Scholars, of launching a
"frivolous"
lawsuit against UMass at Lowell?" He answered: "No, I am
not.
That is not what I said, and I didn't make any accu/sations
against
anyone, I suggest that YOU read my letter more carefully
before
labeling me "misguided."
"I
have already been to your website, many times, and have read
and
printed much information from there for my reading enjoyment. That
does
not, however, mean that I agree with your opinions or believe that
what
you are saying is accurate.
Thanks
for caring."
To
which I replied: "ANGEL: A million
pardons, but you will note I
didn't
"accuse" you of anything, but merely asked if you were the one.
The
BEAT-L posts come in a million a minute and I didn't remember who it
was but
whoever it was he was definitely misguided.
Otherwise I thank
you for
visiting my website but as for your differing in opinion,
everyone
is entitled to think or believe what he wants, but I am
comforted
by the knowledge that I was there, an eyewitness, and you
weren't. It's my duty as a journalist to inform the
world with truth,
not
bullshit." To which Angel/UBFine
responded: "Good example of why I
read
your stuff (and everyone's) with a grain of salt. The use of the
verb
"accuse" came only from you. I did not use the word. Only
you
did. You asked me if I "accused Nicosia, etc.
"Now
you quote it back to me, as if I'd said it, and with heavy
sarcasm
to boot.
I
haven't done anything except express my opinion fairly and
calmly.
Yet from you and from Jo Grant I get attitude.
Well
you know what? Fuck you both."
So I
wrote back under the subject heading, DON'T GET ME WRONG: "UB: I'm
not
looking for a fight. I just think it's
wrong to
pour
shit on one of our greatest Kerouac scholars. I really appreciate
the
comparatively few readers who visit my website. I do not spend
much
time or money (of which I have none) to promote my website.
Only
recently has Yahoo started listing me.
But if you take
exception
to some of what I have written I wouldn't mind an open
discussion
about your exceptions on the BEAT-L list.
And I think anyone
who
attacks Gerry Nicosia as frivolous is definitely misguided, just as
those
who are trying to persecute him for his defense of Jan Kerouac are
definitely
misguided. Jan Kerouac's only dream was
to vindicate
herself
as a writer, however inferior to her father.
I believe she has
so
vindicated herself. --Al" Then I got Angel/UB's "fuck you"
note and
I wrote
back: "UB: Is that swhat you call expressing yourself fairly and
calmly
and without attitude? I respect Jo
Grant and Gerry Nicosia as
accomplished
writers and I believe my respect for them reflects their
respect
for me. I merely asked you if your were
the one who "accused"
Gerry
of being frivolous. If you say you
weren't, that's good enough
for me.
When you say you disagree with what I have written, I naturally
would
like to know more specifics. What
are you getting so angry
about?
--Al"
And my
last two messages to him were returned to me as undeliverable
because
he embargoed any messages from me.
Now I'm
prompted to ask: If the BEAT-L list has that kind of closed
minds
subscribing to it, what good is the BEAT-L list? How can it have
any
credibility?
--
***************************************
Al
Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 11:51:29 -0600
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac- reports of death
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At
09:37 AM 11/28/97 -0500, you wrote:
>In
a message dated 97-11-28 04:32:52 EST, John PullicinO, not PullicinI
>wrote:
>
><<
all that typing brought back the afternoon on which i first read the
>
clippings, which went straight into my wallet, where they remained during
>
most of the ensuing 28 years - hence the missing words - the rest of the
>
afternoon i spent in jimmy watson's winebar crossing the same bridge from
>
lost to beatific........ >>
>
>Thank
you so much for sharing these. They really took me back, too. Imagining
>these
clips living in your wallet, kept close by for 28 years as some kind of
>sweet
sentimental enshrinement, was also a tender statement of the loss of
>jack.
Very nice.
>
>And
it's good to know that the bridge from beatific to lost also goes the
>other
way, back to beatific, and that you were able to find your way there.
>
>I
hope you'll be encouraged to share more of your points of view from the
>other
side of the world.
>
>
I was
in basic training at Ft. Campbell, Kentucky the day Jack died. I
never
read a wire story as good as either of those withered ones in your
wallet. I was just a kid then, and I'm 52 now, where
did those 28 years
go, and
why don't you empty your wallet more often.
Mike
Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 12:08:23 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Pro-Preservation
Comments:
cc: Charley Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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Hey, UB
AngelMindz,
I need
more information. Particularly about how you define "attitude." You
write:
> I
haven't done anything except express my opinion fairly and calmly. Yet from
>
you and from Jo Grant I get attitude.
>
>
Well you know what? Fuck you both.
Is this
in response to my post of a few days ago?
A post that contains
nothing
derrogatory about you.
You
wrote:
>Honestly,
I can't see the logic of paying a $20,000 retainer for an item that
>was
sold for $7,500 in the first place. I also don't see that the seller has
>a
legal leg to stand on, or any chance of "winning" this suit, which
sounds
>frivolous
to me.
And I
responded with:
There
are hundreds of taped interviews that will be lost, forever, if
preservation
measures are not taken to save the tapes. These are interviews
with
people who knew Jack Keroauc intimately, Burroughs was interviewed,
many
other writers, Kerouac's wives and lovers, very close women and men
friends.
To many people this information is so important that considerable
time
and money will be spent insuring that the collection is removed from U
Mass,
Lowell to a library that has a presevation lab and preservation
librarians
who work hard to preserve collections that have been placed in
their
care--entrusted to them.
I don't
want to get into a big thing over this, but I feel very strongly
about
the conservation and preservation of historic documents--particularly
material
that is stored in or on unstable material. The life of magnetic
tape is
short. Everyone knows this. We simply cannot allow the information
on
those tapes to be lost.
Forget
about the tapes in the Memory Babe Archive for a minute.and let me
mention
another project so you don't think Memory Babe is the only
information
I'm concerned about. Wisconsin has the second largest
population
of Hmong in the U.S. These remarkable people arrived here
without
any history other than their stories. Their history is passed down
generation
to generation verbally--it is not written. Cultural shock is
taking
a terrible toll of these people--particularly the seniors. The
seniors
carry the history in their minds. Everytime one of them dies they
lose,
WE LOSE, Hmong history. Can you imagine not having a history. Not
knowing
the what, where, why, when and how of yourself, your parents, your
grandparents?
No serious, concentrated effort is being made to record the
history
of the Hmong. To most is seems unimportant. It demands an
expenditure
of funds states do not feel they can spend. Taxpayers are
reluctant.
Not a good situation. What should be done to preserve this
history?
Is it
as important as the travels of Lewis and Clark? The Vietnam War. My
Lai.
Two New Jersey teen agers commiting suicide to protest a war. Letters
your
grandmother wrote. An old diary.
What
should be done to preserve the scattered fragments of Bukowski,
Burroughs,
Ginsberg, Kerouac, and hundreds of others--some minor, some
major.
Little things here and there. A note. A few words. What Ginsberg
said
about Nicosia while we were talking one evening. A few words while
autographing
his high schol yearbook picture for me. Fragments. Safe.
Preserved.
The
work to raise money to save this archive is simply that. To save
information
that someone, someday, will use. A small bit of information
that
helps form a link to another little piece of information and another
and
another and another and we learn.
Just
the tid-bits one picks up on this list are sometimes mind-blowing.
Example.
Today I
added a picture of Meridel LeSueur to the page that has information
about
the last book she wrote at age 93. The Dread Road. The picture was a
quick
snapshop Charlie Plymell took of Meridel in an elevator at Westbeth,
an
artist commune in NYC over ten years ago. Plymell learned of my interest
in
Meridel on this list. Meridel was in NYC for the book publishing
gathering
the Feminist Press was having for the anthology of Meridel's work
"RIPENING:
The Writings of Meridel LeSueur.... "
She invited Plymell to
the
gathering. An incredible book.. A picture from Plymell to BookZen to
the
World Wide Web. From me to the Minnesota Historical Society, with a
copy
going to Special Collection at the University if Iowa. Is this picture
important? Are Plymell's notes on the meeting
important? Is the
conversation
he and Meridel had that day important? Are Meridel's notes
about
the meeting with Plymell important. When compared fifty years from
now
what will some researcher discover about these two remarkable
observers.
Hundreds of her notebooks are slowly being transcribed.
Important?
To some people yes. To students studying the Great Depression
Meridel's
notes, fiction, poetry, recorded words are priceless. What did
Meridel
pass on to one of her grandchildren who put together the first
Native
American radio station on an Indian reservation?
Her
notes will tell us...something. But they have to be preserved, cared
for,
cherished. Preservation Librarians and
others, do that--preserve
information.
Please
people, just let this thing happen. Please understand that what this
is
about is saving information that, since you are into Beat History,
should
be as important to you as it is to the person who gathered the
information,
and the people who want to study the information.
Sorry
for the length of this post. So scattered. Fragmented. Too tired to
dig in
and edit. My much better half, a preservation librarian, would have
said it
better while being appalled that it needed saying at all.
***
Seriously
UB, nothing was said in this post against you personally. And
nothing
has been said against you, or anyone who thinks that saving the
hundreds
of tapes recordings that are part of the Memory Babe Archive is
"frivolous,"
that could be considered a "flame."
On the
other hand, your "fuck you both" comment appears to be a serious
attempt
to start a firery exchange--flames and more flames.
Well it
will not happen with me.
And I
hope others who understand how critically important it is to save
these
tapes will not get pulled into personal attacks and invectives.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line late today
http://www.bookzen.com
592,901 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 12:08:48 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: UBFINE
MIME-Version:
1.0
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text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Patricia
Elliott wrote:
>
>
The center is breaking and thanksgiving is over. I am glad this went
>
backchannel originally, and i am also
glad that differing oppinions are
>
heard. i was alarmed at the idea that one idea couldn't be presented
>
unless a dissenting view was also presented. I found ub fine thinking
>
fuzzy but that is a left sided argument.
One thing that has been
>
praying on my mind is I desperately wish we could discuss the need for
>
the memory babe material to be adequately preserved (as it is voices
>
that i love that will be disolved), without fearing if we say anything
> on
the subjuect both side will come out swing or responding with the
>
vile tone arguments that have visited here in the past. This is a
>
place that should care that preservation and access to these archives be
>
achieved. I don't know how, beyond the hard cruel tongue of a lawyer.
>
but would love to hear POSITIVE ideas on the subject. I would also
>
prefer not to hear negative remarks, except as back channel.. In case
>
someone wants to back channel, i am patricia elliott, at
>
pelliott@sunflower.com
> hi
ho to the beat daddio.
> p
> Al
Aronowitz wrote:
>
>
>
> AngelMindz (aka You_Be Fine---but why is he hiding his real name and
>
> dodging any kind of discussion?) is refusing to accept my Email. First
>
> he wrote: "This suit [Nicosia's] sounds frivolous to me." Then I wrote
>
> him: "UBFINE: Are you the misguided individual who accused Gerry
>
> Nicosia, one of our greatest Kerouac Scholars, of launching a
>
> "frivolous" lawsuit against UMass at Lowell?" He answered:
"No, I am
>
> not. That is not what I said, and I didn't make any accu/sations
>
> against anyone, I suggest that YOU read my letter more carefully
>
> before labeling me "misguided."
>
>
>
> "I have already been to your website, many times, and have read
>
> and printed much information from there for my reading enjoyment. That
>
> does not, however, mean that I agree with your opinions or believe that
>
> what you are saying is accurate.
>
>
>
> Thanks for caring."
>
>
>
> To which I replied: "ANGEL: A
million pardons, but you will note I
>
> didn't "accuse" you of anything, but merely asked if you were
the one.
>
> The BEAT-L posts come in a million a minute and I didn't remember who it
>
> was but whoever it was he was definitely misguided. Otherwise I thank
>
> you for visiting my website but as for your differing in opinion,
>
> everyone is entitled to think or believe what he wants, but I am
>
> comforted by the knowledge that I was there, an eyewitness, and you
>
> weren't. It's my duty as a
journalist to inform the world with truth,
>
> not bullshit." To which
Angel/UBFine responded: "Good example of why I
>
> read your stuff (and everyone's) with a grain of salt. The use of the
>
> verb "accuse" came only from you. I did not use the word. Only
>
> you did. You asked me if I "accused Nicosia, etc.
>
>
>
> "Now you quote it back to me, as if I'd said it, and with heavy
>
> sarcasm to boot.
>
>
>
> I haven't done anything except express my opinion fairly and
>
> calmly. Yet from you and from Jo Grant I get attitude.
>
>
>
> Well you know what? Fuck you both."
>
>
>
> So I wrote back under the subject heading, DON'T GET ME WRONG:
"UB: I'm
>
> not looking for a fight. I just
think it's wrong to
>
> pour shit on one of our greatest Kerouac scholars. I really appreciate
>
> the comparatively few readers who visit my website. I do not spend
>
> much time or money (of which I have none) to promote my website.
>
> Only recently has Yahoo started listing me. But if you take
>
> exception to some of what I have written I wouldn't mind an open
>
> discussion about your exceptions on the BEAT-L list. And I think anyone
>
> who attacks Gerry Nicosia as frivolous is definitely misguided, just as
>
> those who are trying to persecute him for his defense of Jan Kerouac are
>
> definitely misguided. Jan
Kerouac's only dream was to vindicate
>
> herself as a writer, however inferior to her father. I believe she has
>
> so vindicated herself. --Al" Then I got Angel/UB's "fuck you"
note and
>
> I wrote back: "UB: Is that swhat you call expressing yourself fairly
and
>
> calmly and without attitude? I
respect Jo Grant and Gerry Nicosia as
>
> accomplished writers and I believe my respect for them reflects their
>
> respect for me. I merely asked you
if your were the one who "accused"
>
> Gerry of being frivolous. If you
say you weren't, that's good enough
>
> for me. When you say you disagree with what I have written, I naturally
>
> would like to know more specifics.
What are you getting so angry
>
> about? --Al"
>
> And my last two messages to him were returned to me as undeliverable
>
> because he embargoed any messages from me.
>
> Now I'm prompted to ask: If the BEAT-L list has that kind of closed
>
> minds subscribing to it, what good is the BEAT-L list? How can it have
>
> any credibility?
>
> --
>
> ***************************************
>
> Al Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
>
> http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 13:16:23 -0500
Reply-To: blackj@bigmagic.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Al Aronowitz
<blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>
Subject: UBFINE AGAIN
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
So I
just received this post from Angel Minds aka UBFine:
Subject:
no thanks
Date:
Fri, 28 Nov 1997 12:54:59 -0500 (EST)
From:
AngelMindz@aol.com
To:
blackj@bigmagic.com
I'm not
interested in having a conversation with you. I have
blocked
you from
my
email.
Take
your conspiracy theories and self-pity and cc:s to Jo Grant
and
Gerald
Nicosia
and leave me and the Beat-L list out of it.
Get it?
Get lost.
Sounds
like UB is already lost. --Al aronowitz
--
***************************************
Al
Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 20:10:58 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: one more a day Charles Bukowski poem
In-Reply-To: <yam7269.1953.2825864@pac.com.au>
Mime-Version:
1.0
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One More
Day by Charles Bukowski
the
slippery summer sun of my youth is
gone
and the
mad girls are in others' hands
as I
drive my car to the wash
and
watch the boys dry it to a hearty
glisten
I stand
there
having
learned some tricks
out of
minor courage and lucky
durability
I still
realize my vast vincibility.
it took
time to realize
something
quite not
realized.
too
much time.
time
shot apart: bang.
I walk
to my car,
tip the
gentleman a dollar,
get in,
the
slippery sun of my youth
gone,
I drive
off,
turn
left,
turn
right.
I am
going somewhere.
hands
on the wheel.
checking
the rear view mirror.
I am
old game for the oldest
hunter.
I stop
at the red light.
it's a
fair day among the
living.
the
earth has been here for
such a
very long
time.
I get
the green and go
on.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 17:55:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gene Lee <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac clippings
in
perhaps an unrelated issue- i remember when Jack died- i was going to
college
in gainesville, fl and was coming down from a nite of mushrooms and
red
wine- needless to say i was not all together when a friend dropped by
with
the day's paper which carried the story- i didnt think i could feel any
lower-
until i read the article and everything dropped out of my young life-
i
always used to love Oct- you know- cool breezes- football- coeds in tight
sweaters-
now it just reminds that a great one passed on- which is ok-
everyone
has too- just a lot of light disappeared that Fall.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 18:50:44 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Big break down on Big Sur
To the
Mad ones:
I have
been reading some of the comments regarding Big Sur and wish to
comment
on it but must make the following confession first -- I have never
been an
alcoholic yet (I may be working on it now as we speak), I have never
OD'ed,
nor did I ever suffer a mental collapse (at least not one that has
been
recorded by the medical community).
The
important thing to remember is that the Big Sur was written after he came
out of
that whole process. I saw the book as a kind of validation (maybe even
a
celebration) that people can survive times of self doubt (and a whole host
of
other crappy emotional situations) and come out of it and have their life
go on.
Not that I think that Kerouac thought that life is one big happy smile
party,
but I don't think that he thought that life was one big deep cesspool
dump
either.
The
book starts out by alluding to this immense event (the breakdown) that
will be
occurring, listing events that may or may not be a precursor to the
breakdown
(or whatever it was). It seemed obvious to others that Jack was
heading
down a long a dark road.
When he
writes about this afterwards, he had the assistance of hindsight to
gauge
what and how he was feeling, though I would like to see his letters
that
were written during this time period to better understand his frame of
mind.
But in
the end, he ends up devoting very few pages to the actual breakdown
(compared
to the length of the book). I think this is important. Don't ask me
why.
Sometimes you define the donut by the hole, and you define life's better
moments
by its worst moments.
I read
this book as a more whimsical (buddhist?) accounting of the event,
and I found a lot of humor and irony in the
book. I think that Jack
understood
that there was humor in the fact that being at a place of immense
beauty
like Big Sur, where he had these expectations of enlightened
introspection,
he instead suffered with his closest brush of falling off the
brink
into the great void below. This understanding can only come after a
person
feels that they are back on terra firma.
So in
conclusion, for me the book is not about the breakdown at Big Sur. And
all
this discussion about DTs, acid trips, and mental breakdowns is a side
issue
that is fun (and important) to talk about
--- but the book is more a
look
back at what happened afterwards and the sense of relief one gets after
the
storm has passed.
so it
goes, Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 18:50:46 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Name that Quote
I have
a button that has a quote attributed to Kerouac but I don't recall
reading
it anywhere. Does anybody know? thanks, Attila
The
quote is:
I don't
know, I don't care, and it doesn't really matter.
Jack Kerouac
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 18:50:47 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Kerouac's books: Truth or Fiction
Can we
talk?
I never
felt that any of Jack's books are autobiographical in the strictest
sense,
cause otherwise he would have called it an autobiography. There is
much
evidence that most of his books, while based on many actual events, were
stories
written for the enjoyment of writing it, and sharing it with whoever
would
read it.
Many of
the "facts" have been twisted, deleted, added, enhanced, and
otherwise
modified to fit into the story. Yet I think that the purpose was to
better
convey the emotions and feelings related to the event. Jack tried not
only to
tell you what happened, but also to help you feel the rush that he
felt,
or whatever emotion he was feeling at the time. If he was down, he
tried
to make you feel down or to understand his down. If he was up, he tried
to
bring you along on that trip as well.
I think
that Jack's talent is in his story telling, using a voice and words
that
was unique to him, one that he wasn't afraid of using.
I think
alot of people have the mistaken belief that any Kerouac book can be
taken
as gospel as to what happened, why it happened, and how it happened. I
think
his books provide an insight to what was happening, but not
neccessarily
the truth as to what happened.
For me,
Jack has always been a story teller who told stories of his own life
and
observations. The reasons why he felt he had to tell them are always open
for
discussion. I have my own theories on the Duluoz Legend.
And I
think its when you hear Kerouac reading his own work that you really
start
to appreciate his story telling ability.
so it goes,
Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 19:24:44 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Netiquette
I just
want to remind everyone, after reading a couple of Al Aronowitz's
posts,
that it's generally frowned upon as a breach of netiquette to
post
private correspondence to the list without the other
correspondent's
permission. Being fairly new to our
list, I'm sure that
Al
didn't know that we had complaints about such postings in the past.
Welcome
to the Beat-l, Al. Glad to have you on
board. Look forward to
hearing
more about the Ginsberg memorial.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 21:16:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Pro-Preservation details
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.32.19971128015832.006b20a8@pop.pipeline.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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For
anyone interested in the developing suit to recover the Memory Babe
Archive
from the University of Massachusetts, Lowell a link to more
information
is blinking at http://www.bookzen.com
Also,
if anyone has comments they would like to share about the
PRESERVATION
OF HISTORIC LITERARY MATERIAL BookZen welcomes comments.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 07:34:03 -0500
Reply-To: blackj@bigmagic.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Al Aronowitz
<blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>
Subject: JOKE:ANOTHER INSTALLMENT
MIME-Version:
1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding:
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The
next year, it wa anothe Monk's turn to talk: He said, "Pass the
salt,
please."
--
***************************************
Al
Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 17:45:03 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: paul caspers
<caspers@WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: tapes
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi all,
if
anyone has recordings of bukowski, kerouac or wsb, and i he/she wants to
trade
tape copies of them for copies of irvine welsh reading 'the acid
house'
(180m), please mail me privately. i'm off the list, so don't send it
there.
and, if
anyone can take the time and trouble to tell me where exactly the
texts
from the wsb cd 'dead city radio' come from (most of my booklet is
missing),
i'd appreciate it greatly.
see
y'all
paul
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 13:09:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's books: Truth or Fiction
In-Reply-To: <971128185046_78371155@mrin47>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I always
refer to JK's books as autobiographical fiction...with the
emphasis
on the autobiographical part.
On Fri,
28 Nov 1997, Attila Gyenis wrote:
>
Can we talk?
>
> I
never felt that any of Jack's books are autobiographical in the strictest
>
sense, cause otherwise he would have called it an autobiography. There is
>
much evidence that most of his books, while based on many actual events, were
>
stories written for the enjoyment of writing it, and sharing it with whoever
>
would read it.
>
>
Many of the "facts" have been twisted, deleted, added, enhanced, and
>
otherwise modified to fit into the story. Yet I think that the purpose was to
>
better convey the emotions and feelings related to the event. Jack tried not
>
only to tell you what happened, but also to help you feel the rush that he
>
felt, or whatever emotion he was feeling at the time. If he was down, he
>
tried to make you feel down or to understand his down. If he was up, he tried
> to
bring you along on that trip as well.
>
> I
think that Jack's talent is in his story telling, using a voice and words
>
that was unique to him, one that he wasn't afraid of using.
>
> I
think alot of people have the mistaken belief that any Kerouac book can be
>
taken as gospel as to what happened, why it happened, and how it happened. I
>
think his books provide an insight to what was happening, but not
>
neccessarily the truth as to what happened.
>
>
For me, Jack has always been a story teller who told stories of his own life
>
and observations. The reasons why he felt he had to tell them are always open
>
for discussion. I have my own theories on the Duluoz Legend.
>
>
And I think its when you hear Kerouac reading his own work that you really
>
start to appreciate his story telling ability.
>
> so
it goes, Attila
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 10:34:38 -0800
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From: Ryan White
<whitery@UCS.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Reading material?
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Hi, I'm
fairly new to the whole beat thing, even newer to this list. I
stumbled
across "On the Road" after reading "Naked Lunch" and
Burroughs
Obituary. I found myself perpetually caught up in the
whole adventure of
spontaneous
cross country travel thing. Anyway, I'm
a graduate student in
engineering
and all this has been an attempt to broaden my horizons. I'm
more of
a numbers guy, but have really enjoyed what I've seen. I'm very
interested
in this devotion a number of you have for the "beat
generations"
and especially Jack K. My personal
favorite is Neal Cassady.
The
whole point to this is to ask for a bit of guidance. Where should I
start
as far as what to read? I've only read
Naked Lunch, On the Road,
and The
First Third. Any responses would be
greatly appreciated. Thanks
again.
Buh-Bye!
--Ryan
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 13:51:36 -0500
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From: Mark Schoeck
<Ireneaus13@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Reading material?
just a
few ideas...
The Wild Boys-WSB
Desolation Angels- JK
two of my faves.
mark.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 13:58:06 -0500
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From: KEROUACZIN@AOL.COM
Subject: Fwd: Search
---------------------
Forwarded
message:
From: csmythe@sab.org (Chris Smythe)
To: kerouaczin@AOL.COM ('kerouaczin@aol.com')
Date:
97-11-25 18:58:13 EST
I am
trying to find a poem by Jack Kerouac.
I was watching a documentary on
Kerouac
that contained, obviously, several recordings of him reading various
works. There was one particular bit I didn't
recognize and have been
subsequently
struggling to find. Is there any one I
can contact to help me
find
the source based on a few key words?
Please let me know if you can help
me with
my search. I would be most grateful.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 14:16:34 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Gene Lee <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Reading material?
Hey
Mark- I think that the first part of Desolation Angels contains some of
Jk's
best writing- hmm- dont know about Wild Boys- but not big on Bourroughs
Lit-
cept for Junkie and The Exterminator
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 14:19:42 -0500
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From: Gene Lee <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Reading material?
If you
are interested in Cassady- then read Visions of Cody by JK- also the
Demon
Box by Kesey
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 15:02:24 -0500
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From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's books: Truth or Fiction
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Well,
Kerouac himself said "All my books are true, cause I believed in
what I
saw." They are autobiographical in
a sense in that they're based
on more
or less actual events. He took a lot of
liscence with them to
make
them congruous stories. OTR is
_heavily_ edited and cut down and
rearranged. After all, its 7 years worth of travelling
and adventures.
However,
you take stuff like DB or DA and the people who show up as
characters
say they're fairly accurate accounts of what happened. Its the
fact
that its a story of events and happenings of Kerouac's life seen from
inside
Kerouac's head that make it so amazing.
They are autobiographical
in the
sense that its what Kerouac remembered living and thinking, but
they're
still fiction. They're not
autobiographical journalistic accounts
the way
Holmes' Go or HST's work is, but they're not as fictional as
Fitzgerald's
work either. The fact that his work
fuzzed the lines so is
one of
the reasons it's so important in the history of literature.
------------------
Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 15:21:21 -0500
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject:
Question
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Jack
Kerouac and Thomas Wolfe have been criticized for being story
tellers,
or just writing down what happened. It
seems to me that there
is a
large element of fiction involved, more than most would like to
see,
but it all is based on reality.
My
question is this, my life and the lifes of most people I know have
some
exciting moments, but generally are full of daily routine. If
Jack's
work is mostly autobiographical, that is actually just telling
what
happened, wouldn't that take a writer of greater statute to be able
to make
everyday life so full, so true and such an inspiration. I think
it
would, because he would have to actually see, and not imagine. What
do you
think?
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 20:40:26 +0000
Reply-To: caridade@mail.telepac.pt
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From: caridade
<caridade@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>
Subject: Ferlinghetti's A Note After Reading The
Diaries Of Paul Klee
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A Note
After Reading The Diaries Of Paul Klee
Paul
Klee (that painter who never could draw very well)
put on
the holes in his socks
on
those dim mornings when he woke alone
On
other days it was it was a different tale
as
after that time they made love
in the
larch grove
by the
Tegernsee
What
perfection we reach with love!
he
opined
It even
knits up socks
and
makes me feel I'm God in humankind
(Blow,
blow, thou winter wind!
Crumble,
ye mountains of the mind!)
----
have a
good night you all,
daniel
caridade
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 05:30:17 -0800
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From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Question
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> R.
Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
> My
question is this, my life and the lifes of most people I know have
>
some exciting moments, but generally are full of daily routine. If
>
Jack's work is mostly autobiographical, that is actually just telling
>
what happened, wouldn't that take a writer of greater statute to be
>
able
> to
make everyday life so full, so true and such an inspiration. I
>
think
> it
would, because he would have to actually see, and not imagine. What
> do
you think?
I think
it takes a great writer to make the ordinary seem extraordinary
or to
see greatness in small things. However,
when you are talking about
routines,
the nature of Jack's life was such that he didn't get bogged
down by
a daily grind of routine. For example,
he never let
himself
experience what it is like to be burdened by the daily family
routines
of having a wife and children to support, having to find time to
write
between an 8-12 hour a day job, and spending time with wife and
kids. His lack of family routine, a mortgage, or
having to support more
than
himself, gave him the freedom to travel as he wanted to and
experience
a different kind of lifestyle, and in a way, have more to
write
about. But again speaking of writers of great stature, a lot of it
has to
do with the mind of the writer. In
Ulysses, James Joyce really
only
wrote about one day, minute by minute, hour by hour in the lives of
three
people, but it ramifications in terms of the psychological and
philosophical
realms of what it means to be human were extraordinary.
DC
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 18:14:28 -0500
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Ginsberg interview
Comments:
To: Charles and Pam Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
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I don't
recall seeing this posted to the Beat-L before, but I thought
this
was a cool discussion of Dylan's impact on Allen by Allen. Notice
that
darned ole Charles Plymell was right in the middle of this thing.
I got
this off an old post to the Dylan list.
> Q:
Can you tell us how you met Bob Dylan and
> what your earliest impressions of him were?
>
> AG:
My earliest impressions of Dylan were, uh,
> on returning from India... My earliest
> impressions of Dylan were, on returning
from
> India via San Francisco, a young poet,
Charlie
> Plimel[?], took me aside at a party in
Belinas[?]
> and played me some records from a new young
> singer, folk singer, and it was the
"Masters of
> War," I think, and "I'll
Stand," uh, "I'll Know
> My Song Well Before I Start Singing,"
and "I'll
> Stand on the Sea Where All Can Reflect or
> Mountain Where All Can Reflect
It." And I was
> really amazed. It seemed to me that the torch
> had been passed, sort of, from, uh, Kerouac
or
> from the, uh, beat, uh, genius on to
another
> generation completely, who had taken it,
uh, and
> he'd taken it and made something completely
> original out of it, and that life was in
good
> hands.
I remember bursting into tears.
Because
> the, uh, proclamation of confidence was so
> certain and, uh, the, uh, humility was
apparent,
> and at the same time the confidence in, uh,
his
> own voice or his own inspiration, which is,
I
> think, some of the secret of genius which
is, uh,
> like in Whitman: "I celebrate myself and sing
> myself.
What I shall assume, you shall assume."
> That confidence of self-acceptance, or
> self-empowerment, the empowerment. Uh, so I
> heard just that first record, and I was
pretty
> amazed by it. Then, uh, cause, you know, we had
> learned from earlier people. I had learned from
> William Carlos Williams and William Burroughs,
> who was much older, and, uh, every
generation
> produces its own spontaneous genius, sort
of. So
> it seemed to me that somebody had emerged
with
> their own, out of cocoon, with their own
life,
> with their own scepter, so to speak. Then, uh, I
> got to New York with Peter Orlovsky, and we
were
> staying at the, it's, uh, above, upstairs
from
> the Eighth Street Bookstore, which was at
that
> time a big, interesting, intelligent
bookstore, Uh, really
> admirable -for, for, for journalism it was
a
> really well-researched and even piece at a
time
> when, uh, the notion, the journalistic idea
was
> beatniks, it was cockroaches, and, uh,
dirty
> houses and uh, some idiot, uh, media idea
> ignoring the literature and ignoring the
actual
> brilliance of the people like Kerouac or
> Burroughs or Gary Snyder or others. So in '59,
> Aronowitz had written a very good
series. And
> he'd actually gone to the West Coast,
interviewed
> Michael McClure, Neal Cassidy, uh, the poet
Gary
> Snyder I think, or friends of Snyder, Snyder
was
> in Japan.
Maybe Philip Whalen he saw and uh,
> McClure turned him on to some grass which
> enriched his account of, uh, serialized
account
> of the poets. So Aronowitz I had known for four
> or five years and Aronowitz brought Dylan
to a
> welcome party. Peter and I had been around the
> world actually and spent a year and a half
in
> India.
And I'd spent some time in Japan in a Zen
> setting with Gary Snyder and then come back
to a
> big poetry conference in Vancouver and then
spent
> time in San Francisco, heard Dylan on the
radio,
> on the phonograph and then got to New York,
got a
> welcome home party and that was the night
that
> Dylan had come from the Emergency Civil
Liberties
> Committee banquet and had renounced any
role as
> sort of a political prophet for them, and
that is
> a left wing, uh, what, folk, uh, fighter
for
> causes.
I don't think he wanted to be limited to
> that view and that perspective. And so I
> remember coming up the stairs and meeting
him and
> I was really interested, because I'd seen,
heard
> his language. And he was kind of mysterious, but
> one of the first things he said is he had
> explained, uh, uh, he had not obeyed what
their
> idea was and they were shocked and
horrified.
> But he felt that he had to make his own
statement
> and have his own independence rather than
being a
> replica of, uh, folk song hero, conforming
to
> their expectations as somebody in,
responding to
> every civil liberties case, every case of
> discrimination, every strike, the
traditional
> sing outs, folk music, left wing party
line. And
> I thought it was pretty smart of him,
though, he
> may have not had the skillful means to do it
in
> which a way that encouraged them to do what
they
> wanted to do
>
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 19:45:54 -0500
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From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg interview
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At
06:14 PM 11/29/97 -0500, Bentz wrote:
>I
don't recall seeing this posted to the Beat-L before,
>but
I thought this was a cool discussion of Dylan's
>impact
on Allen by Allen.
Just
listening to the Dylan show from 4/05/97 in
Moncton,
NB, Canada, and after Dylan played "Desolation
Row"
he sez this:
"A
friend of mine passed away, I guess, this morning,
that
was one of his favorite songs, the poet Allen Ginsberg.
Allen
that was for you."
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 06:49:06 +0100
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Driving a cardboard automobile by
Lawrence Ferlinghetti.
In-Reply-To: <yam7269.1953.2825864@pac.com.au>
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#
2 by Lawrence
Ferlinghetti
Driving
a cardboard automobile without a license
at the turn of the century
my father ran into my mother
on a fun-ride
at Coney Island
having spied each other eating
in a French
boardinghouse nearby
And
having decided right there and then
that she was right for
him entirely
he followed her into
the playland of that
evening
where the headlong meeting
of their
ephemeral flesh on wheels
hurtled them forever together
And I
now in the back seat
of their eternity
reaching
out to embrace them
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 01:33:21 -0500
Reply-To: blackj@bigmagic.com
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From: Al Aronowitz
<blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>
Subject: JUST FOR THE RECORD
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When I
interviewed Kerouacin '59 or '60 (see:
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column22.html
)he told me all his
novel
were autobiographical and he derided the publishers and lawyers
who
make him change the names and fuzzy up anything the suits though
libelous. He liked to stick to the truth and laughed
at TOWN AND THE
CITY,
in which he gave his family things they didn't hae. I don't
remember
his exact words and I aint gonna bother looking it up now but
it's all
in the interview. He showed me the
nickel pocket notebooks in
which
he had written everything down. Each
novel was contained in
several
nickel notebooks which he kept handy in his back pocket until he
packaged
each novel as a collection of nickel notebooks by putting a
rubber
band around them. It's all described in
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column22,html
. U hope those
bundles
of notebooks are still intact and haven't been sold off piece
meal as
Gerry Nicosia fears. In his interview,
Kerouac mentions that
biographies
will be written about him. He made it
pretty clear to me
that he
wanted his papers kept intact and available for scholars. I
hope
that is being done and that Nicosia's fears are incorrect. I just
don't
see embargoing any of Nicolsia's materials which he deposited in a
library
to make available for scholars. And
embargoed for extremely
petty
reasons at that. Allen Ginsberg used to
complain like mad to me
that
Stella wouldn't allow access to Jack's papers for her own very dumb
reasons. In later years, he stopped complaining. --Al Aronowitz
--
***************************************
Al
Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 01:41:22 -0500
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From: Al Aronowitz
<blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>
Subject: JUST FOR THE RECORD--CORRECTION
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In my
original post, I tried to identify the URL of my Kerouac interview
twice
but the second time it came out wrong.
The correct URL is
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column22.html
.
--
***************************************
Al
Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:50:32 -0800
Reply-To: balkose@egenet.com.tr
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Murat Balkose
<balkose@EGENET.COM.TR>
Subject: Jim Morrison
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Hello,
Here are a couple of questions we wonder:
1.) At the end of OTR a man named Sean
Monahan appears , is he friend
of
Synder poet Lew Welch?
2.) At
1970, Jim Morrison meets beat
poet Michael McClure. McClure
tries
to persuade Jim to print his poem book -Gods - New Creatures-.Does
any one
know more about this story.. Also what is relation between Jim
and the
beats..
Yr information will be glad .
Yrs,
Murat.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:40:47 +0000
Reply-To: caridade@mail.telepac.pt
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From: caridade <caridade@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>
Subject: Ferlinghetti's Making Love In Poetry
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Making
Love In Poetry
(After
Breton)
In a
war where every second counts
Time
drops to the ground
like a
shadow from a tree
under
which we lie
in a
wood boat built from it
by an
unknown carpenter beyond the sea
upon
which peach pits float
fired
by a gunner who has run out of ammunition
for a
cannon whose muzzle bites heartshaped holes
out of
the horizon of our flesh
stunned
in the sun and baffled into silence
between
the act of sex
and the
act of poetry
blissed-out
in the darkening air
at the
moment of loving and coming
there
is no glimpsing of
the misery
of the world
Hope
you all keep having a nice weekend, everybody...
daniel
caridade
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 17:48:07 +0100
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Dove Sta Amore...
In-Reply-To: <yam7269.1953.2825864@pac.com.au>
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COMPOSIZIONE SCRITTA IN
QUATTRO PARTI
#1 part
-------
Dove Sta Amore... by Lawrence Ferlinghetti
Dove sta amore
Where lies love
Dove sta amore
Here lies love
The ring dove love
In lyrical delight
Hear love's hillsong
Love's true willsong
Love's low plainsong
Too sweet painsong
In passages of night
Dove sta amore
Here lies love
The ring dove love
Dove sta amore
Here lies love
---
#2 part
-------
year
1997, a kid:
"I'm disgusted by the life styles
of the baby boomers. They have
sparked a new era of social values
that have changed the world
in which I live,
creating a mass of problems
whose ramifications
they will not live to endure.
Their sexual revolution has resulted
in a society rife with sexually
transmitted diseases;
the institution of the family
has deteriorated to the point
of disfunctionality.
The baby boomers' use of narcotics
has destroyed many of my peers
in a circle of unbridled drug use and
addiction."
---
#3 part
-------
year
1959, Jack Kerouac:
"...because
the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones
who are
mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of
everything,
but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman
candles
exploding like spiders across the stars and in the
middle
you see the blue centrelight pop and everybody goes
'Awww!'..."
---
#4 part
-------
year 1920,
Edna St. Vincent Millay:
"My
candle burns at both ends;
it will
not last the night;
but ah,
my foes, and oh, my friends-
it
gives a lovely light!"
---
un
saluto a tutti da
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:09:56 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Bill Morgan's Walking Tour
For
those who still haven't read Bill Morgan's "The Beat Generation in
New
York", there's a preview in today's New York Times, City Section, p.
10. A "selective tour" with map is
included.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:21:40 +0100
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Jens Koch
<jenskoch@POST1.TELE.DK>
Subject: Harry Smith article
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For
those of you interested in Harry Smith there is an article in the =
English
Folk Roots which I have scanned and posted on =
http://home1.inet.tele.dk/jenskoch/harry1.htm
Jens
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:42:07 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: George Russell
<CodyPomera@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Jim Morrison
Comments:
To: balkose@egenet.com.tr
The
Lords and the New Creatures was published in 1969, as far as I know. I
don't
have a clue as to who published it, he may have done it privately, or
any
other printing information. As far as
Jim Morrison being influenced by
the
Beats, Ray Manzarek said that if On The Road had not been published,
there
would have been no Doors.
-George
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 16:05:29 -0500
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From: Gene Lee <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Jim Morrison
so
true- and none of that damn fine music- jack spawned a lot of good things-
Bob
Dylan for one
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 17:14:44 -0500
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From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: NYC Some of the Dharma Reading
If you
are are in the area, check it out, Attila
Jack
Kerouac's Some of the Dharma
readings
& performances by Karen Allen, David Amram, Doug Brinkley, Todd
Colby,
Willem Dafoe, Ann Douglas, Maggie Estep, Hitchhiker, Lee Ranaldo, Ed
Sanders,
David Stanford, Anne Waldman, & Special Guests
Wednesday
December 3rd 8:00PM
$12.00
($7.00 for members & students)
The
Poetry Project St.Mark's Church
131
East 10th St. (at 2nd Ave.) Manhattan
Info:
212/674-0910
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 17:32:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: Gene Lee <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: NYC Some of the Dharma Reading
wow- is
all I have to say- o to live in NYC- for things like that- I am
currently
reading the Dharma book- fits in nicely with my re-entry into Zen-
Jk was
so damn sharp- too sad
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:55:06 -0500
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From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Beat Book Garage Sale - Reader copies
It's
time to clear out some room on my shelves again. Within the next week
or so I
will be e-mailing a list of Beat related and some non-beat related
books I
have for sale. In general these will be
relitively inexpensive
"reader"
copies, with a handful of "collectable" stuff. If you would like to
receive
my list, please send a private e-mail to Hpark4@aol.com NOT to the
listserve
-- there is no reason to waste bandwidth to all 200 plus people on
the
list for this purpose.
I'll
have some some books at affordable prices.
Howard
Park
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:42:57 -0500
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From: "Neil M. Hennessy"
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Beat Book Garage Sale - Reader
copies
In-Reply-To:
<971130205505_2095637616@mrin43.mail.aol.com>
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Hi
Howard,
If there's
any Burroughs on your shelves, send along the list.
Thanks,
Neil