=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:18:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: Gender of Nature...
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
8bit
>Has
anyone noticed that in, Desolation Angels, Jack refers to the moon
>as
>a
she and the sun as a he? Usually, the moon is male (the man in the
>moon)
>and
the sun is female(giver of light, life, etc). Do you think there's a
>reason
for Jack's reversal of genders?
well, in eastern thought the female yin,
is dark and damp, the
valley
spirit if you've read the tao te ching, the male is the bright
half,
the white, etc... the woman is the dark mystery force of life,
the
gate to life.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:23:21 -0800
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@email.msn.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Death of Kathy Acker
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008B_01BCFFD5.7ABC29C0"
This is
a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_008B_01BCFFD5.7ABC29C0
Content-Type:
text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable
same
here - showing my ignorance, but i've never heard of her.... =
ciao,
sherri
-----
From:
caridade <caridade@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date:
Wednesday, December 03, 1997 10:16 AM
Subject:
Re: Death of Kathy Acker
>Sorry
to say that I'm one of those lost sheep who didn't have a clue
>about
who was Kathy Acker...
>
------=_NextPart_000_008B_01BCFFD5.7ABC29C0
Content-Type:
text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE
HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META
content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META
content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript size=3D5>same here - =
showing
my=20
ignorance,
but i've never heard of her.... ciao, =
sherri</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
face=3DArial size=3D2>-----<BR>From: caridade <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:caridade@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT">caridade@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT</A>>=
<BR>To:=20
<A
href=3D"mailto:BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU">BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU</A>
=
<<A=20
href=3D"mailto:BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU">BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU</A>><BR>=
Date:=20
Wednesday,
December 03, 1997 10:16 AM<BR>Subject: Re: Death of Kathy=20
Acker<BR><BR></FONT> </DIV>>Sorry
to say that I'm one of those =
lost=20
sheep
who didn't have a clue<BR>>about who was Kathy=20
Acker...<BR>><BR></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_008B_01BCFFD5.7ABC29C0--
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:17:50 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Gender of Nature...
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Classical
mythology: diana/artemis was the moon goddess of the hunt.
mc
Nancy B
Brodsky wrote:
>
Has anyone noticed that in, Desolation Angels, Jack refers to the moon as
> a
she and the sun as a he? Usually, the moon is male (the man in the moon)
>
and the sun is female(giver of light, life, etc). Do you think there's a
>
reason for Jack's reversal of genders?
>
~Nancy
>
>
The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
>
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:29:19 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Gender of Nature...
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
classical
greek mythology: apollo the sun god./artemis moon goddess of the hunt.
and to
be a bit frankly speaking here: men do not have 'monthly"
(ie
menses).
makes
sense to me.
mc
Nancy B
Brodsky wrote:
>
Point well taken. Thanks for the clarification....
>
> On
Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Preston Whaley wrote:
>
>
> >Has anyone noticed that in, Desolation Angels, Jack refers to the moon
as
> >
>a she and the sun as a he? Usually, the moon is male (the man in the moon)
>
> >and the sun is female(giver of light, life, etc). Do you think there's
a
>
> >reason for Jack's reversal of genders?
>
> >~Nancy
>
> >
>
> >The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven
For
>
> >Sure-JK
>
>
>
> The man on the moon is a man on the moon not the moon. Ancient Egyptian
>
> god is the sun god -- "Ra." Louis XIV was Louis the "Sun
King." The Sun is
>
> imagined active, the moon passive.
Old as patriarchy. The man on the moon
>
> is where you'd expect him to be.
>
>
>
> Preston
>
>
>
>
The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
>
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:59:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Gender of Nature...
In a
message dated 97-12-03 15:25:58 EST, Marie wrote:
<<
(ie menses). >>
Native
American women refer to menses as the moon time. A menstruating woman
is
"on her moon," rather than all those quaint little colloquialisms
women of
less
spiritual ancestry are taught to use.
The
moon waxes and wanes, as well. The dreaded PMS can be seen as waxing, and
many
cultures believe this is a time of great insight, when women are most
attuned
to things unspoken and unseen (which might explain why it looks like
women
have a lot on their minds right then).
On the
other hand, luna (the moon) is the root of the word lunatic. Go
figure.
diane
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:05:13 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: CD ROM: voyager beat experience 96
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
hello
all:
after
flipping through a lot of mail re: CD ROM experiences of the
beats,
i finally dug out my copy and reinstalled it on my disk..
while
i'm not particularly enraptured by the cliched art of the 'beat
pad'
which is the portal into each section of the disk: (bookcase, movie
projector,
artwork, etc), this time i was truely taken by the beauty of
the
literary excerpts - the art design of a book with aged, weathered
looking pages, and the incredible scope of writers,
which include
baraka,
burroughs, corso, creely, dickinson, diPrima, emerson,
ferlinghetti,
ginsberg, hunke, kerouac, mcClure, melville, miller,
o'hara,
rimbaud, snyder, thoreau, twain, watts, WCW, symbolist poets,
romantic
poets, and the lost generation, reminds me so much of rinaldo's
inclusionary
vs exclusionary lineup of beats. transcendentalists,
symbolists,
imagists, american to the core twain, the black mountain
school
and the west coast poets, the roots of the lost generation - and
that is
only the bookcase. wowed me again.
did i
just beam down from pluto? am i coming out of left field? did i do
something
to my brain, and merely need time to come down? anyway, in
response
to questions concerning CD Rom experiences of the beats, i must
heartily
endorse the voyager co.'s beat experience. it was great to
read a
sizeable exerpt from hunke's 'guilty of everything' and i was
heartened
by the transcendentalists strong showing as well.
ok, now
to beam back up to the crescent moon seen through the window.
and
maybe a movie snippet or two.
mc
a bit
whacked in the head today, but happily......
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:30:09 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: First_Name Last_Name
<Kindlesan@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat Bars/Taverns
In a
message dated 97-12-02 23:19:47 EST, you write:
<<
Dylan Thomas died at the White Horse Tavern. May I recommend the
mozzarella sticks, grilled cheese and Sam
Adams?
>>
what
did dylan thomas die of?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:34:41 -0500
Reply-To: bonckdd@jmu.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Bonck, David D"
<bonckdd@JMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Something to say etc....
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19971203160844.008fd100@pophost.aber.ac.uk>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
I think
you are totally right. Yeah I was all sorts of
drunk
when I first got on this list and just let a whole
lot of
garbage off my chest. It is sad though just to see
how a
computer screen can manipulate a human being's life
so
much. You know, it's not like being an alcoholic or
playing
checkers all day or reading literature or playing
the
guitar. It's staring at a screen. Computers take so
much of
the personal aspect out of life. At least WRITING a
letter
shows handwriting, and talking on the phone
indicates
vioce expressions. You know? It's so wierd to
think
that you will probably never see or hear from anyone
on this
list, and that's just sad. But it is good that we
can all
talk and chat about beautiful writers like
Burroughs
Kerouac and Ginsberg ect. I really like that
excerpt
from "The Job." I have been wanting to read that
due to
my current lust for WSB's works. My library here is
pitiful
when it comes to these guys. It has "On the Road"
"Junky"
and a couple books of poems by Ginsberg. Pretty bad
huh? I
was able to find lots more at the local library in
my
hometown. I'm sure the CD Rom things are cool but I
don't
even have a computer of my own so I guess they would
be out
of the question. But there is a lot of bullshit
going
around about the "beats." Kids hear about "On the
Road"
in a B-Boys song and think it's cool that Kerouac
traveled
across America. But what's even worse is kids
worshipping
Burroughs like in "High Times" and such because
they
hear that he did lots of drugs. That's just a disgrace
to a
genius writer. Peace. ---david
On Wed,
3 Dec 1997 16:08:44 +0000 ALAN PETER MADDRELL
<apm5@ABER.AC.UK>
wrote:
>
>You can sit at a stupid coffee house and say,
>
>"yea, the beats were cool and I really liked their
>
>message." Fuck that. I am
already talking shit because the
>
>"beats" (at least when they were for real. I'm not talking
>
>about Burroughs wierd new shit on CD or Cassidy riding
>
>around in a colorful bus). But fuck
it.
> >Bonck,
David D
>
>bonckdd@jmu.edu
>
>
Seems to me this thought encapsulates a lot of the talk that has been
>
floating around this list for a while. 'S true, I am certainly with David
> on
some points here. As I understand it, the beat spirit has nothing to do
>
with the time in which it most notably occurred (namely '40s-'60s, very
>
broadly). Critic might say that the movement sprang from bomb horror,
>
postwar angst and so on, but these are merely the symptoms. I wouldn't find
> it
surprising if a near exact parallel movement arrived on my doorstep
>
tomorrow. Same horrors, my dears, just the words change and the means
>
through which they may be expressed.
>
>
Jesus, three o'clock in the PM and drunk already. Not good...
>
>
So, my tuppence's worth says it doesn't matter through which medium the
>
message is to be obtained. CD-ROMs are *just as much* an avoidance of True
>
Living as books are. Literature, by (tentative) definition, is an escape
>
from the ghastly banality of the process of living as is any other form of
>
art. Otherwise, why bother? It's a common misconception to think that books
>
are somehow superior as art works to theatre, a painting, sculpture, film
> or
a really decent CD-ROM. Each has their merits, and I have studied them all.
>
>
The dangers of attaching the beat generation to a specific period in time
>
have been expressed pretty well in "Beatnik" by Toby Litt, a new
novel in
>
which a group of teenagers become obsessed with the idea of 1966, and cut
> out
from their lives anything that arrived on the scene after that. At
>
times I am reminded of these tragic chars. by some of the antics of those
>
who would eulogise and chemically preserve an unrealistic ideal of life at
>
that time. My advice? Don't wear black, don't snap your fingers, and don't
>
call anything or anyone "hep" or "cat". A tenner says no
real beat ever did
>
after it became "cool" to do so.
>
>
Consequently, the B-Boys nicely capture the beat spirit (as incidentally do
>
Genet, arguably Keats etc.), whilst not being tied to the time. To my mind
>
the greatest of the writers of that time, Burroughs, said this in The Job:
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To
travel in space you must learn to leave the old verbal garbage behind:
>
food talk, priest talk, mother talk, family talk, love talk, party talk,
>
country talk. You must learn to exist with no religion, no country, no
>
allies. You must learn to see what is in front of you with no
>
preconceptions.
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I
think it's reasonable to include time talk in that as a footnote.
>
>
Well, that's me de-lurkified for a spell, just seemed worthwhile to point
>
out that in his first post David observed something quite central to the
>
nature of the study of beat literature.
>
>
ttfn,
>
>
Alan Maddrell
--
Bonck,
David D
bonckdd@jmu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:38:43 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: Beat Bars/Taverns
In-Reply-To:
<971203163009_-321507873@mrin58.mail.aol.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> In
a message dated 97-12-02 23:19:47 EST, you write:
>
<< Dylan Thomas died at the White Horse Tavern. May I recommend the
> mozzarella sticks, grilled cheese and Sam
Adams?>>
>
what did dylan thomas die of?
gee - i
thought everyone knew...
he died
of mozzarella sticks, grilled cheese and sam adams.
yrs
derek
******************************************************************
Derek
Beaulieu
House
Press (limited ed. chapbooks, prints, etc)
#502-728
3rd Ave NW
Calgary,
Alberta, Canada, T2N 0J1
ph.
(403)270-4440, fax. 270-9357
"remove
literary, grammatical & syntactical inhibition" -Jack Kerouac
******************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:58:10 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: First_Name Last_Name
<Kindlesan@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat Bars/Taverns
In a
message dated 97-12-03 16:56:40 EST, you write:
<<
gee - i thought everyone knew...
he died of mozzarella sticks, grilled cheese
and sam adams >>
how did
the combination kill him
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:25:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beat Bars/Taverns
In-Reply-To:
<971203163009_-321507873@mrin58.mail.aol.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
He died
of alchol poisoning...
'On
Wed, 3 Dec 1997, First_Name Last_Name wrote:
> In
a message dated 97-12-02 23:19:47 EST, you write:
>
>
<< Dylan Thomas died at the White Horse Tavern. May I recommend the
> mozzarella sticks, grilled cheese and Sam
Adams?
> >>
>
>
>
what did dylan thomas die of?
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:45:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Beat Bars/Taverns
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I don't
think that Dylan Thomas died at the Whitehorse - although what he
drank
at the Whitehorse was a direct contributor! It seems now to be
accepted
that he died as a result of mixing drinking with Diabetes - a
disease
he denied having.
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"Blessed are they who can laugh at
themselves, for they shall never
cease
to be amused."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:35:42 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: Beat Bars/Taverns
In-Reply-To: <971203165810_-1506653143@mrin54.mail.aol.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
on bars
and taverns (or: lit & cheese)
kerouac
poe
thomas
drink
in one hand and life in the other
king of
the beats and king of the bar
poe
dead in a gutter from
beer
& booze
here i
am sitting in another pub
i dont
like beer
but im
sure
that
the
grease from these
grilled
cheese
mozza sticks
onion rings
buffalo wings
burgers
nachos
bar
food
will do
the same task
and
probably
quicker
******************************************************************
Derek
Beaulieu
House
Press (limited ed. chapbooks, prints, etc)
#502-728
3rd Ave NW
Calgary,
Alberta, Canada, T2N 0J1
ph.
(403)270-4440, fax. 270-9357
"remove
literary, grammatical & syntactical inhibition" -Jack Kerouac
******************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:59:44 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Beat Bars/Taverns
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
05:25 PM 12/3/97 -0500, Nancy Brodsky wrote:
>He
died of alchol poisoning...
I think
there is a new bio out that proposes he
died of
a diabetic coma. I believe it was
written
by an
M.D.?
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:03:09 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Re: Gender of Nature...
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
classical greek mythology: apollo the sun god./artemis moon goddess of the
hunt.
>
>
and to be a bit frankly speaking here: men do not have 'monthly"
>
(ie menses).
>
makes sense to me.
> mc
>
Yes
indeed it does. Ever had a baby at full
moon, you can't get a birthing
room.
Been
there and done that! Er eh as a father
of course.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:36:05 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Beat Bars/Taverns
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
he
dropped dead right off his stool in the tavern. the official cause of
death
may have been heart failure, but basically, alcoholism.
mc
First_Name
Last_Name wrote:
> In
a message dated 97-12-02 23:19:47 EST, you write:
>
>
<< Dylan Thomas died at the White Horse Tavern. May I recommend the
> mozzarella sticks, grilled cheese and Sam
Adams?
> >>
>
>
what did dylan thomas die of?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:37:18 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: first name last name
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
is
there a reason for such anonymity? or is that your birth name?
curious
in vermont
mc
First_Name
Last_Name wrote:
> In
a message dated 97-12-02 23:19:47 EST, you write:
>
>
<< Dylan Thomas died at the White Horse Tavern. May I recommend the
> mozzarella sticks, grilled cheese and Sam
Adams?
> >>
>
>
what did dylan thomas die of?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:48:23 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: something to say, lots to do
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>
dear david:
> in
a way, i feel sorry for you. i write lots of real letters to real
>
friends who
>
i've met in real life on this list and others. handwriting is no
>
indication of a
>
real letter any more than typing is. i feel sorry for you if you think
>
all life
>
consists of isolated people typing garbage to other anonymous isolated
>
people. on
>
one list i belong to, we all decided to meet in louisville KY and have
> a
poetry
>
reading. i've been invited to, and gone to several other poetry
>
readings where real
>
live people gathered together to share life as well as literacy. i've
>
found
>
friendships here that have literally changed my life. this month i'm
>
off to california to meet up with west coast beat-l folks, to read
>
some poetry and live a lot as well. the list provides back what
>
you put into it, much like a garden. and much like a garden, there are
>
many weeds
> as
well. but even weeds have a complex organic life of their own. give
> it
some
>
time. don't sweat the small stuff. there are many wonderful people
>
here. and we are
>
not all addicted to our computers. i am addicted to life, and sharing
>
life with
>
others through the letters i write both on and off list.
>
welcome
>
give it a chance.
> mc
>
>
Bonck, David D wrote:
>
>
> I think you are totally right. Yeah I was all sorts of
>
> drunk when I first got on this list and just let a whole
>
> lot of garbage off my chest. It is sad though just to see
>
> how a computer screen can manipulate a human being's life
>
> so much. You know, it's not like being an alcoholic or
>
> playing checkers all day or reading literature or playing
>
> the guitar. It's staring at a screen. Computers take so
>
> much of the personal aspect out of life. At least WRITING a
>
> letter shows handwriting, and talking on the phone
>
> indicates vioce expressions. You know? It's so wierd to
>
> think that you will probably never see or hear from anyone
>
> on this list, and that's just sad. But it is good that we
>
> can all talk and chat about beautiful writers like
>
> Burroughs Kerouac and Ginsberg ect. I really like that
>
> excerpt from "The Job." I have been wanting to read that
>
> due to my current lust for WSB's works. My library here is
>
> pitiful when it comes to these guys. It has "On the Road"
>
> "Junky" and a couple books of poems by Ginsberg. Pretty bad
>
> huh? I was able to find lots more at the local library in
>
> my hometown. I'm sure the CD Rom things are cool but I
>
> don't even have a computer of my own so I guess they would
>
> be out of the question. But there is a lot of bullshit
>
> going around about the "beats." Kids hear about "On the
>
> Road" in a B-Boys song and think it's cool that Kerouac
>
> traveled across America. But what's even worse is kids
>
> worshipping Burroughs like in "High Times" and such because
>
> they hear that he did lots of drugs. That's just a disgrace
>
> to a genius writer. Peace.
---david
>
> On Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:08:44 +0000 ALAN PETER MADDRELL
>
> <apm5@ABER.AC.UK> wrote:
>
>
>
> > >You can sit at a stupid coffee house and say,
>
> > >"yea, the beats were cool and I really liked their
>
> > >message." Fuck that.
I am already talking shit because the
>
> > >"beats" (at least when they were for real. I'm not
talking
>
> > >about Burroughs wierd new shit on CD or Cassidy riding
>
> > >around in a colorful bus).
But fuck it.
>
> > >Bonck, David D
>
> > >bonckdd@jmu.edu
>
> >
>
> > Seems to me this thought encapsulates a lot of the talk that has
>
been
>
> > floating around this list for a while. 'S true, I am certainly
>
with David
>
> > on some points here. As I understand it, the beat spirit has
>
nothing to do
>
> > with the time in which it most notably occurred (namely '40s-'60s,
>
very
>
> > broadly). Critic might say that the movement sprang from bomb
>
horror,
>
> > postwar angst and so on, but these are merely the symptoms. I
>
wouldn't find
>
> > it surprising if a near exact parallel movement arrived on my
>
doorstep
>
> > tomorrow. Same horrors, my dears, just the words change and the
>
means
>
> > through which they may be expressed.
>
> >
>
> > Jesus, three o'clock in the PM and drunk already. Not good...
>
> >
>
> > So, my tuppence's worth says it doesn't matter through which
> medium
the
>
> > message is to be obtained. CD-ROMs are *just as much* an avoidance
> of
True
>
> > Living as books are. Literature, by (tentative) definition, is an
>
escape
>
> > from the ghastly banality of the process of living as is any other
> form
of
>
> > art. Otherwise, why bother? It's a common misconception to think
>
that books
>
> > are somehow superior as art works to theatre, a painting,
>
sculpture, film
>
> > or a really decent CD-ROM. Each has their merits, and I have
>
studied them all.
>
> >
>
> > The dangers of attaching the beat generation to a specific period
> in
time
>
> > have been expressed pretty well in "Beatnik" by Toby Litt,
a new
>
novel in
>
> > which a group of teenagers become obsessed with the idea of 1966,
>
and cut
>
> > out from their lives anything that arrived on the scene after
>
that. At
>
> > times I am reminded of these tragic chars. by some of the antics
> of
those
>
> > who would eulogise and chemically preserve an unrealistic ideal of
> life
at
>
> > that time. My advice? Don't wear black, don't snap your fingers,
>
and don't
>
> > call anything or anyone "hep" or "cat". A tenner
says no real beat
>
ever did
>
> > after it became "cool" to do so.
>
> >
>
> > Consequently, the B-Boys nicely capture the beat spirit (as
>
incidentally do
>
> > Genet, arguably Keats etc.), whilst not being tied to the time. To
> my
mind
>
> > the greatest of the writers of that time, Burroughs, said this in
>
The Job:
>
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> > To travel in space you must learn to leave the old verbal garbage
>
behind:
>
> > food talk, priest talk, mother talk, family talk, love talk, party
>
talk,
>
> > country talk. You must learn to exist with no religion, no
>
country, no
>
> > allies. You must learn to see what is in front of you with no
>
> > preconceptions.
>
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> >
>
> > I think it's reasonable to include time talk in that as a
>
footnote.
>
> >
>
> > Well, that's me de-lurkified for a spell, just seemed worthwhile
> to
point
>
> > out that in his first post David observed something quite central
> to
the
>
> > nature of the study of beat literature.
>
> >
>
> > ttfn,
>
> >
>
> > Alan Maddrell
>
>
>
> --
>
> Bonck, David D
>
> bonckdd@jmu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 08:31:31 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Beat Bars/Taverns
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>
Derek A. Beaulieu wrote:
>
"remove literary, grammatical & syntactical inhibition" -Jack
Kerouac
>
******************************************************************
Derek--where
did you find this quote?
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:31:40 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: home from Denver
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
happy
to report i survived thanksgiving.
Neal's
spirit was everywhere. I spent a lot of
time driving around
areas
on the Neal's Denver page at literary kicks and the changes in the
city
over the years didn't come close to taking the spirit from the
streets. it was beautiful and fun.
until i
caught a bad cold!
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:28:06 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: Gender of Nature...
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
8bit
>and
to be a bit frankly speaking here: men do not have 'monthly"
>(ie
menses).
>makes
sense to me.
>mc
interestingly enough, men have been shown
to epxerience daily
fluctuations
in their equivalents of the female menstrual hormones,
much
like the sun's daily cycle... a neat little coincidence.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:38:54 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: A few collectible books in the
"Garage Sale" too
Thanks
to all that have requested my book list.
I hope to send it out this
weekend.
Originally
I said I would have only reader copies.
I have since come accross
a few
duplicate books which I would classify as collectable, so I'd recommend
that
the collectors request a copy of my list as well as those only
interested
in reader copies.
Please
e-mail list requests to Hpark4@aol.com NOT to the listserve.
Howard
Park
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:50:15 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Miller
<richard@EMF.NET>
Subject: Kerouac and The Fifties
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The
History Channel is doing a 7 hr special on The Fifties and on Friday
night
(12/5) they examine the impact of Jack Kerouac and Elvis Presley.So
far its
been pretty well done.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:14:52 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Beat Bars/Taverns
Comments:
To: Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997120317451564@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed,
3 Dec 1997, Antoine Maloney wrote:
> I
don't think that Dylan Thomas died at the Whitehorse - although what he
>
drank at the Whitehorse was a direct contributor! It seems now to be
>
accepted that he died as a result of mixing drinking with Diabetes - a
>
disease he denied having.
At the
Chelsea hotel on 23rd, there is a plaque dedicated to Dylan Thomas
which
says he died there.
I
wonder who drank more, Kerouac or Thomas?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:54:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac and The Fifties
In-Reply-To:
<v01530500b0ab497dbb39@[205.149.2.213]>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
It's
based on David Halberstam's book _The Fifties_ which is by far the
best
history book on a specific era I've ever read.
We use it as the
background
text for our Beat class here. Its the
way a history book
should
be written. The series has been great
and I've been taping it as
the
$100 they're charging to buy it is outrageous for a six tape set.
------------------
Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:00:48 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Philibin <deadbeat@BUFFNET.NET>
Subject: Re: Gender of Nature...
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>
Has anyone noticed that in, Desolation Angels, Jack refers to the moon as
> a
she and the sun as a he? Usually, the moon is male (the man in the
moon)
>
and the sun is female(giver of light, life, etc). Do you think there's a
>
reason for Jack's reversal of genders?
Really?!?! I have always heard the moon refered to as female. It's the
whole
Luna thing. And cyclic like a Womans
Cycle... Never really heard
anything
about the Sun except for in Greek Lit.
-Bill
[ email: deadbeat@buffnet.net |
web: http://www.buffnet.net/~deadbeat
]
|"When
no one had answers they created God. Now
we have most of them,
| and
one day we will have all of them, rendering God useless."
|
| --
Unknown
[--- ICQ UIN = 188335 --|-- PrettyGoodPrivacy
v2.6.2 Key By Request --]
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:40:23 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dennis Cardwell <DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Gender of Nature...
In a
message dated 97-12-03 09:04:45 EST, Nancy wrote:
<<
Usually, the moon is male (the man in the moon) >>
Ah, but
the moon is a harsh mistress.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:02:16 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Pullicino <jjpull@PAC.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: freewheeling chaos
In-Reply-To: <347CD579.8CF@sunflower.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain
Hi
there Patricia, on 27-Nov-97 you wrote...
>the
only thing i would like to add is i think everyone
>should only post interesting things, nothing boring.
/golgotha
gulp/
my
saviour 'tis of thee
they
sing they say
you
died with pride at thirtythree
for
others' sins
(enthroned
madonna grins
and
giggles
what if
she'd had twins?)
--
bye for
now,
#<|||||||||||||||||||||||>#
John Pullicino #<|||||||||||||||||||||||>#
(|||||||||||||||||||) #jjpull@pac.com.au# (|||||||||||||||||||)
#<|||||||||||||>#
*Team AMIGA WorldWide* #<|||||||||||||||>#
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:55:05 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Pullicino
<jjpull@PAC.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: allow me to...
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19971126225017.00b5f614@pop.gpnet.it>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain
Hi
there Rinaldo, on 27-Nov-97 you wrote...
> i think back over the past, and remember
the on the road as
> a story of a salesman (death of a
salesman). the american way
> of life, religious of course, but keen
competition and no
> pity for the loser. (Sur...
hmm - i
remember buying 'naked lunch' from a bookstall in via veneto, and
reading
it in the borghese gardens - it's easy to forget the doors those
guys
opened up in peoples lives
>p.s.
techno pun nostalgia, the Amiga 1000 was my first serious
> puter. i brought it on autumn 1986.
now it's gone but a tear
> was/is on my eyes...
definitely
the platform ol jack would have chosen haha
>>--
>>bye
for now,
>>#<|||||||||||||||||||||||>#
John Pullicino #<|||||||||||||||||||||||>#
>>(|||||||||||||||||||) #jjpull@pac.com.au# (|||||||||||||||||||)
>>#<|||||||||||||>#
*Team AMIGA WorldWide* #<|||||||||||||||>#
>>
--
bye for
now,
#<|||||||||||||||||||||||>#
John Pullicino #<|||||||||||||||||||||||>#
(|||||||||||||||||||) #jjpull@pac.com.au# (|||||||||||||||||||)
#<|||||||||||||>#
*Team AMIGA WorldWide* #<|||||||||||||||>#
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:45:06 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Pullicino
<jjpull@PAC.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: the last time....
In-Reply-To: <348526C6.5BE4@together.net>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain
G'day
all,
has
anyone else had the sad misfortune of seeing a film called "The last
time i
committed suicide" , which i sat through last night hissing through
clamped
teeth? I've often wondered when or whether the right kind of movie
treatment
of some beat writers will eventuate - this was a really
mindfuckingly
stupid attempt, dealing as it did with a visual rendition of
one of
neal cassady's letters to jack - little bits of dialogue here and
there
offered promises almost immediately dashed against some
hollywood/madison
avenue figment of 'the beat'
i dont
want to say more at this stage other that the only authentic feel
for the
time is the music (a la miles davis, or maybe himself - i couldnt
be
bothered scanning the credits)
i
heard/read somewhere that FFCoppola has the rights to 'on the road' -
anyone
know more?
--
bye for
now,
#<|||||||||||||||||||||||>#
John Pullicino #<|||||||||||||||||||||||>#
(|||||||||||||||||||) #jjpull@pac.com.au# (|||||||||||||||||||)
#<|||||||||||||>#
*Team AMIGA WorldWide* #<|||||||||||||||>#
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:29:39 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Roy Murray Moore
<unde0297@FRANK.MTSU.EDU>
Subject: Kerouac and the Fifties
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
hundred bucks, huh? my copy of the book cost
me fifteen dollars. also,
i've always been impressed by halberstam's
choice of words and one rather
astute
observation of his continues too come to min whenever i think of
the
beats: "They saw themselves as poets in a land of philistines, men
seeking
spiritual destinies rather than material ones."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:41:42 -0500
Reply-To: bonckdd@jmu.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Bonck, David D" <bonckdd@JMU.EDU>
Subject: ginsberg film
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
I just
rented a good 30 min video from my library today-an
interview
with Allen Ginsberg called "When the Muse Calls
Answer
It." I think it was probably made in the late 80s or
early
90s. Had him talking about his friends
and everybody
we all
know and love. He read excerpts from a
couple poems
like
"White Shroud" and "Kaddish." He mentioned Kerouac's
great
influence on him to write spontaneously.
He even
went as
far to say that his own writing was and extension
of
Kerouac's. Showed his NYC apartment and the streets he
has
walked for years. I had never seen him on video before
(except
for Bob Dylan's "Don't Look Back") or heard his
voice.
The video showed him up close and personal and he
seemed
like a real down to earth guy. Also included a
couple
rare shouts of the boys back in the day. You guys
should
check it out! david.
--
Bonck,
David D
bonckdd@jmu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:27:09 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUNET.YU>
Subject: Re: Beat Generation multi-media???
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
ok.
before i start, let me just say that i was on the list before, that
i have
returned, that i missed it very much in the meantime and that it
brings
much sense into my life.
i was
curious; as a response to this:
Alex
Howard wrote:
>
>
Uhm, "dude", we're here to discuss the literature and the writers and
>
other prevelant information. If the
purpose of the list were to support
>
and futher the beat lifestyle, it wouldn't exist and you wouldn't even be
>
here.
>
i
agree. it is true that life and literature are not really separate
entities
for most of us. but: how would you evaluate your lives? do you
think
that they could compare with that of the beats? not necessarily
meaning
that they be as wild as theirs, but in way we interpret our
experiences
in our heads. do you think that you are living outside
mainstream,
do you feel that you have sold yourslef to the (material)
society
etc? do you get a feeling that 'there has to be more than this'?
i am
still too young and crazy to be having these thoughts (as a matter
of
fact, reading beatlist e-mails keeps me from sleeping and i never
spend
the days at home), but am just wondering if that time comes to all
of us
or not.
i hope
i'm not too confusing.
ksenija
ps.
thanks for remembering gregory corso. whenever i'm down, i read
'marriage'.
makes me happy; just as literature itself does. but you
already
know that.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:22:05 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Crooked Road
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
What
about we all collaborate on a book:
Being
Beat For Dummies. It will complete
that
fabulous set that began with DOS for
Dummies. It would be a major success with
all us
fools pooling our efforts.
Mike
Rice
At
11:50 PM 12/2/97 -0800, you wrote:
>The
author is Tim Hunt. Good book if you
like this sort of thing, ie
>literary
analysis.
>
>The
other one I am aware of is the Spontaneous Poetics of Jack kerouac by
>Regina
Weirich (whose last name I believe I misspelled).
>
>
>
>>I
recently picked up a book called "Kerouac's crooked road", (author?)
and
>>its
about Kerouac's writing process. I was suprised to find out that
>>Kerouac
did several meticulous revisions of On The Road. Its a very
>>interesting
book...
>>
>>
>>The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
>>Sure-JK
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:40:58 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Beat Bars/Taverns
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
04:30 PM 12/3/97 -0500, you wrote:
>In
a message dated 97-12-02 23:19:47 EST, you write:
>
><<
Dylan Thomas died at the White Horse Tavern. May I recommend the
>
mozzarella sticks, grilled cheese and Sam Adams?
> >>
>
>
>what
did dylan thomas die of?
>
>
I read
a bio. He died in the White Horse. He was a
notorious
drunk and probably had liver problems and
their
complications.
Mike
Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:41:02 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac and The Fifties
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
05:50 PM 12/3/97 -0800, you wrote:
>The
History Channel is doing a 7 hr special on The Fifties and on Friday
>night
(12/5) they examine the impact of Jack Kerouac and Elvis Presley.So
>far
its been pretty well done.
>
>
I just
finished the one on Grace Metalious on tape.
This series is
wonderful. There are two episodes Friday night, the
last two. The
series
is seven episodes, but because the first one was 2 hours, the
whole
thing is eight hours.
Mike
Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:41:08 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Beat Bars/Taverns
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
09:14 PM 12/3/97 -0500, you wrote:
>On
Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Antoine Maloney wrote:
>
>>
I don't think that Dylan Thomas died at the Whitehorse - although what he
>>
drank at the Whitehorse was a direct contributor! It seems now to be
>>
accepted that he died as a result of mixing drinking with Diabetes - a
>>
disease he denied having.
>
>At
the Chelsea hotel on 23rd, there is a plaque dedicated to Dylan Thomas
>which
says he died there.
>
>I
wonder who drank more, Kerouac or Thomas?
>
>
Listen,
regardless of what it was or where it was, "he did not
go
gently into that good night!"
Mike
Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:54:27 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Judith Campbell
<judith@BOONDOCK.COM>
Subject: Re: Crooked Road
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.16.19971204011542.25a7ad7c@mail.wi.centuryinter.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:22
AM 12/4/97 -0600, you wrote:
>What
about we all collaborate on a book:
>Being
Beat For Dummies. It will complete
>that
fabulous set that began with DOS for
>Dummies. It would be a major success with
>all
us fools pooling our efforts.
>
>Mike
Rice
I'll be
happy to work on this with you as soon as I finish my current
project:
"Suicide for Dummies"
Judith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:02:35 -0800
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Re: Kerouac and The Fifties
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Tonight's
episode was about the changing sexual and social mores of the
decade,
and I was pleasantly surprised to hear Herbert Huncke's name re:
his (as
well as Kerouac's, Ginsberg's, & Burroughs') involvement in the
Kinsey
Report. They also had interviews with Ginsberg and (another happy
surprise)
Joyce Johnson. This documentary seems to leave no stone
unturned...I
have to read the book now!
Adrien
Richard
Miller wrote:
>
>
The History Channel is doing a 7 hr special on The Fifties and on Friday
>
night (12/5) they examine the impact of Jack Kerouac and Elvis Presley.So
>
far its been pretty well done.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:59:21 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Beat Generation multi-media???
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
all
dylan said, 'to live outside the law you must be honest': as a person who
has no
car and only enough possessions to fit into one room, and a penchant
for
bussing it and training it to meet with poets and other mad ones, i
hesistate
still to call myself beat, but i sure ain't mainstream, clearly. i
don't
even work.
mc
Ksenija
Simic wrote:
>
ok. before i start, let me just say that i was on the list before, that
> i
have returned, that i missed it very much in the meantime and that it
>
brings much sense into my life.
>
> i
was curious; as a response to this:
>
>
Alex Howard wrote:
>
>
>
> Uhm, "dude", we're here to discuss the literature and the
writers and
>
> other prevelant information. If
the purpose of the list were to support
>
> and futher the beat lifestyle, it wouldn't exist and you wouldn't even be
> >
here.
>
>
>
> i
agree. it is true that life and literature are not really separate
>
entities for most of us. but: how would you evaluate your lives? do you
>
think that they could compare with that of the beats? not necessarily
>
meaning that they be as wild as theirs, but in way we interpret our
>
experiences in our heads. do you think that you are living outside
>
mainstream, do you feel that you have sold yourslef to the (material)
>
society etc? do you get a feeling that 'there has to be more than this'?
> i
am still too young and crazy to be having these thoughts (as a matter
> of
fact, reading beatlist e-mails keeps me from sleeping and i never
>
spend the days at home), but am just wondering if that time comes to all
> of
us or not.
>
> i
hope i'm not too confusing.
>
>
ksenija
>
>
ps. thanks for remembering gregory corso. whenever i'm down, i read
>
'marriage'. makes me happy; just as literature itself does. but you
>
already know that.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:02:01 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Crooked Road
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
i can't
help it, this cracked me up. i have a few chapters you may want
to
include.
alive
and glad to be here now.
mc
Judith
Campbell wrote:
>
I'll be happy to work on this with you as soon as I finish my current
>
project: "Suicide for Dummies"
>
>
Judith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:02:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: the last time....
In a
message dated 97-12-04 02:16:31 EST, John wrote:
<<
has anyone else had the sad misfortune of seeing a film called "The last
time i committed suicide" >>
Ugh...
a friend loaned me the movie after she had rented it and before she
had to
take it back to the video store. I don't know whether it was the
offensive
portrayal of Neal, or the lame portrayal of Allen, or the stupid
jerky
camera affectations, or the contrived hipness of the soundtrack, but it
was,
without exception, the most stupefyingly dumb <fill in the blank> I had
ever
rewound after 17 minutes. I simply could not watch it. And I can't think
of
another movie I've ever felt that way about.
diane
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:42:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beat Bars/Taverns
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997120317451564@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Dylan
Thomas died at the White Horse Tavern...
On Wed,
3 Dec 1997, Antoine Maloney wrote:
> I
don't think that Dylan Thomas died at the Whitehorse - although what he
>
drank at the Whitehorse was a direct contributor! It seems now to be
>
accepted that he died as a result of mixing drinking with Diabetes - a
>
disease he denied having.
>
> Antoine
> Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
> "Blessed are they who can laugh at
themselves, for they shall never
>
cease to be amused."
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:43:50 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beat Bars/Taverns
In-Reply-To: <34858963.33E6@together.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
If Im
not mistaken, I think this quote comes from his rules of spontaneous
prose
or something like that....am I right?
~Nancy
On Wed,
3 Dec 1997, Diane Carter wrote:
>
> Derek A. Beaulieu wrote:
>
>
> "remove literary, grammatical & syntactical inhibition"
-Jack Kerouac
>
> ******************************************************************
>
>
Derek--where did you find this quote?
> DC
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:46:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: the last time....
In-Reply-To: <yam7277.339.4820736@pac.com.au>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
If you
look at Levi Asher's site, literary kicks, he has a thing about a
movie
version of On The Road...I forgot the address to the page,
sorry..can
anyone help me out?
On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, John Pullicino wrote:
>
G'day all,
>
>
has anyone else had the sad misfortune of seeing a film called "The last
>
time i committed suicide" , which i sat through last night hissing through
>
clamped teeth? I've often wondered when or whether the right kind of movie
>
treatment of some beat writers will eventuate - this was a really
>
mindfuckingly stupid attempt, dealing as it did with a visual rendition of
>
one of neal cassady's letters to jack - little bits of dialogue here and
>
there offered promises almost immediately dashed against some
>
hollywood/madison avenue figment of 'the beat'
>
>
> i
dont want to say more at this stage other that the only authentic feel
>
for the time is the music (a la miles davis, or maybe himself - i couldnt
> be
bothered scanning the credits)
>
> i
heard/read somewhere that FFCoppola has the rights to 'on the road' -
>
anyone know more?
> --
>
bye for now,
>
#<|||||||||||||||||||||||># John Pullicino
#<|||||||||||||||||||||||>#
>
(|||||||||||||||||||)
#jjpull@pac.com.au# (|||||||||||||||||||)
>
#<|||||||||||||># *Team AMIGA WorldWide* #<|||||||||||||||>#
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:47:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beat Generation multi-media???
In-Reply-To: <199712041301.IAA25521@pike.sover.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I have
that on a bumper sticker...
On Thu,
4 Dec 1997, Marie Countryman wrote:
>
all dylan said, 'to live outside the law you must be honest': as a person who
>
has no car and only enough possessions to fit into one room, and a penchant
>
for bussing it and training it to meet with poets and other mad ones, i
>
hesistate still to call myself beat, but i sure ain't mainstream, clearly. i
>
don't even work.
> mc
>
>
Ksenija Simic wrote:
>
>
> ok. before i start, let me just say that i was on the list before, that
>
> i have returned, that i missed it very much in the meantime and that it
>
> brings much sense into my life.
>
>
>
> i was curious; as a response to this:
>
>
>
> Alex Howard wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Uhm, "dude", we're here to discuss the literature and the
writers and
>
> > other prevelant information.
If the purpose of the list were to support
>
> > and futher the beat lifestyle, it wouldn't exist and you wouldn't
even be
>
> > here.
>
> >
>
>
>
> i agree. it is true that life and literature are not really separate
>
> entities for most of us. but: how would you evaluate your lives? do you
>
> think that they could compare with that of the beats? not necessarily
>
> meaning that they be as wild as theirs, but in way we interpret our
>
> experiences in our heads. do you think that you are living outside
>
> mainstream, do you feel that you have sold yourslef to the (material)
>
> society etc? do you get a feeling that 'there has to be more than this'?
>
> i am still too young and crazy to be having these thoughts (as a matter
>
> of fact, reading beatlist e-mails keeps me from sleeping and i never
>
> spend the days at home), but am just wondering if that time comes to all
>
> of us or not.
>
>
>
> i hope i'm not too confusing.
>
>
>
> ksenija
>
>
>
> ps. thanks for remembering gregory corso. whenever i'm down, i read
>
> 'marriage'. makes me happy; just as literature itself does. but you
>
> already know that.
>
The Absence
of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:50:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: SOTD
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I went
to the Some of the Dharma Reading last night at St.Mark's Church
and it
was awesome. I went by myself and wound up meeting this really cool
art
teacher from Mass. and the performances were so cool. David Amram was
great
at everything...he played the piano, flute, drums, whatever, and he
sang.
It was my first time at the Poetry Project and it was just great! I
hope
those of you who were there, enjoyed it!
~Nancy
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:55:48 -0500
Reply-To: "henkel@wmich.edu"
<henkel@wmich.edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Scott Henkel <henkel@WMICH.EDU>
Organization:
OVPR
Subject: Re: the last time....
MIME-version:
1.0
Content-type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-transfer-encoding:
7bit
The
page is http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
I think
that this is a pretty cool one, but also worthy is
http://www.geocities.com/~beatgeneration/cafe.html I had to enter this
address
twice, it might kick you out. This one has a real hip sound bit of
Jack
reading the end of OTR.
Cheers,
Scott
-----Original
Message-----
From: Nancy B Brodsky [SMTP:nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU]
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 1997 9:46 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: the last time....
If you
look at Levi Asher's site, literary kicks, he has a thing about a
movie
version of On The Road...I forgot the address to the page,
sorry..can
anyone help me out?
On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, John Pullicino wrote:
>
G'day all,
>
>
has anyone else had the sad misfortune of seeing a film called "The last
>
time i committed suicide" , which i sat through last night hissing
through
>
clamped teeth? I've often wondered when or whether the right kind of
movie
>
treatment of some beat writers will eventuate - this was a really
>
mindfuckingly stupid attempt, dealing as it did with a visual rendition
of
>
one of neal cassady's letters to jack - little bits of dialogue here and
>
there offered promises almost immediately dashed against some
>
hollywood/madison avenue figment of 'the beat'
>
>
> i
dont want to say more at this stage other that the only authentic feel
>
for the time is the music (a la miles davis, or maybe himself - i couldnt
> be
bothered scanning the credits)
>
> i
heard/read somewhere that FFCoppola has the rights to 'on the road' -
>
anyone know more?
> --
>
bye for now,
> #<|||||||||||||||||||||||>#
John Pullicino #<|||||||||||||||||||||||>#
>
(|||||||||||||||||||)
#jjpull@pac.com.au# (|||||||||||||||||||)
>
#<|||||||||||||># *Team AMIGA WorldWide* #<|||||||||||||||>#
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:08:41 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Beat Bars/Taverns
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:42:02 -0500
from
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Yea, he
actually died in St. Vincent's hospital.
But it makes such a better st
ory to
say he died in the gutter on Hudson Street.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:14:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: First_Name Last_Name
<Kindlesan@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: the last time....
In a
message dated 97-12-04 09:32:18 EST, you write:
<<
I had
ever rewound after 17 minutes >>
not
that i was much of a fan of the movie myself, regardless i would have sat
through
the whole thing so i could adequately mock it instead of generalizing
the
entire movie, out of respect to the director and screenwriter who at
least
tried...besides, i don't believe we can necessarily label
interpretations
of one or two people from that time period unless we
ourselves
spent significant time with them.......
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:37:57 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sean Young <syoung@DSW.COM>
Subject: Re: at the end of a gone year .......
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Maybe
for those who are not legal, we could gather somewhere else. Maybe at the
St.
Marks Poetry project on New Years day or something. I think it would be
great
to meet people on the list. Keep the connections going in person and such.
Sean D.
Young
______________________________
Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject:
Re: at the end of a gone year .......
Author: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> at Internet
Date: 12/2/97 10:04 PM
Nancy
wrote:
I'd
love to go to McSorely's but unfortunately, not everyone on the list
is
wholly legal....
On Tue,
2 Dec 1997, Sean Young wrote:
> hey all,
>
>
> Here at the end of a year of so many
gone. Allen gone, my father Don
> Young gone, Jeff Buckley gone, Burroughs
gone, Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan
> gone, Acker gone ......etc. I feel like
I need to get my feet on the
> ground. so much spinning in loss.
>
> What's the next phase? When will there
be a return of wonder (to quote
> Ferlinghetti)? Is it already here? Am I
asleep in my walking already
> too far gone?
>
> I am heading to New York for five days
around New Years. I've got my
> Bill Morgan book in hand and I am hoping
to check out some of the
> haunts. I also hope to check out the St.
Marks Poetry marthon reading
> on New Years Day. I might also visit
Anthology Film Archives, hoping
> to find more info on Harry Smith.
>
> I was wondering if any of you NY area
BEAT-L'ers might like to meet at
> McSorley's for a drink. Let's drink to
the return of wonder.
>
> Peace be upon you all,
>
> Sean D. Young
>
> syoung@dsw.com
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:48:58 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: the last time....
In a
message dated 97-12-04 10:04:58 EST, you write:
<<
>
> i heard/read somewhere that FFCoppola
has the rights to 'on the road' -
> anyone know more?
> --
>>
This
will get you started:
<A HREF="
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ ">Literary Kicks</A>
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
<A
HREF="http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/Films/BeatFilmList.html">The
Beats In
Film</A>
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/Films/BeatFilmList.html
<A
HREF="http://www.c3f.com/holywood/ontheroa.html">Hollywood's
Coming: On Th
e
Road</A>
http://www.c3f.com/holywood/ontheroa.html
This
project has been in the shadows for decades, and there is a lot of
information
out there on the internet. We've also discussed it to death on
the
list here, passionately and then annoyingly... you can get the letters on
this
subject from the Beat-L archive. Maybe then we won't get sucked back
into
discussing it endlessly...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:01:13 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sean Young <syoung@DSW.COM>
Subject: Re: Gender of Nature...
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
I remember seeing a Joseph Campbell
lecture on PBS where he said that
different cultures assign different
genders to the sun and the moon.
He also said (and I paraphrase) that
certain ancient beliefs had that
the sun was the source (female) and that
the moon (male) came from and
returned to the sun. Hence the typical
male feeling of being temporary
and struggling with identity. (Women,
being the source, can just "be"
and men, feeling somewhat unimportant,
have to "do", that is assert
some separate identity from the nature
scripted role.) Note that those
are generalizations and there are always
exceptions. Interesting to
ponder though.
He also suggested that the difference
between these gender assignments
was a source of cultural
misunderstandings. Mixed metaphors = mixed up
world.
:)
Sean D. Young
______________________________
Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject:
Re: Gender of Nature...
Author: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> at Internet
Date: 12/3/97 2:29 PM
classical
greek mythology: apollo the sun god./artemis moon goddess of the hunt.
and to
be a bit frankly speaking here: men do not have 'monthly"
(ie
menses).
makes
sense to me.
mc
Nancy B
Brodsky wrote:
>
Point well taken. Thanks for the clarification....
>
> On
Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Preston Whaley wrote:
>
>
> >Has anyone noticed that in, Desolation Angels, Jack refers to the moon
as
>
> >a she and the sun as a he? Usually, the moon is male (the man in the
moon)
>
> >and the sun is female(giver of light, life, etc). Do you think there's
a
>
> >reason for Jack's reversal of genders?
>
> >~Nancy
>
> >
>
> >The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven
For
>
> >Sure-JK
>
>
>
> The man on the moon is a man on the moon not the moon. Ancient Egyptian
>
> god is the sun god -- "Ra." Louis XIV was Louis the "Sun
King." The Sun is
>
> imagined active, the moon passive.
Old as patriarchy. The man on the moon
>
> is where you'd expect him to be.
>
>
>
> Preston
>
>
>
>
The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
>
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:16:38 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ddrooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: the last time....
Content-type:
text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding:
7bit
In a
message dated 97-12-04 11:10:48 EST, you write:
<<
regardless i would have sat
through the whole thing so i could adequately
mock it >>
Life is
too short and I'm not into self-abuse.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:25:02 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Donald G. Jr. Lee"
<donlee@COMP.UARK.EDU>
Subject: Re: the last time....
Comments:
To: First_Name Last_Name <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>
In-Reply-To:
<971204101455_-1875617360@mrin51.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Okay,
my two bits: When I watched it first time
I thought it was great.
I went
out and bought the soundtrack immediately. Second time I watched
it, a
week later, it occurred to me that a lot of my reaction stemmed from
(a)
obvious love of the subject matter and (b) the overall paucity of
*any*
good movies dealing w/ the Beats, or even mediocre ones. Anyone
seen
"Heartbeats"? Jesus H. Anyway, the soundtrack is great.
Don Lee
Fayetteville,
Ark.
"Might
as well be frank, monsieur. It would
take a miracle to get you
out of
Casablanca and the Germans have outlawed miracles."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:37:39 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Neil M. Hennessy"
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Burroughs archives
In-Reply-To:
<971202170533_2095857259@mrin53.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue,
2 Dec 1997, Diane De Rooy wrote:
> I
don't have the details (who does? can you post them?) but there's an art
>
exhibit featuring paintings by Burroughs and George Condo in New York right
>
now, for those of you in that neck of the woods.
I don't
have any details, but for anyone interested in the connection
between
the two Burroughs wrote the intro to a Condo book called "Recent
Paintings"
and Condo illustrated the original limited edition "Ghost of
Chance".
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:01:31 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Donald G. Jr. Lee"
<donlee@COMP.UARK.EDU>
Subject: Dylan Thomas
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SOL.3.95q.971204113600.16750C-100000@picard.math.uwaterloo.ca>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I know
virtually zilch about Dylan Thomas--can anyone suggest a good book
and/or
website? Plus, which of his poetry
collections is best? Plus
anything
anybody else has to add...
thanks
Don Lee
Fayetteville,
Ark.
"Might
as well be frank, monsieur. It would
take a miracle to get you
out of
Casablanca and the Germans have outlawed miracles."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:18:07 +0000
Reply-To: caridade@mail.telepac.pt
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: caridade
<caridade@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>
Subject: Ginsberg Song/Poem
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
I saw a
few days ago the end of an interview with Allen Ginsberg, in
which
he sang a song, accompanied by a strange instrument, like an
accordion,
and it went something like this:
Father's
death
...
Budha's
death
...
Burroughs
death
...
(note :
this ... means that I don't remember the following verses...)
Does
anyone know anything about this song/poem? If so, could you post
the
poem here in the list?
thanks
in advance...
daniel
caridade
caridade@mail.telepac.pt
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:35:01 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg Song/Poem
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
caridade
wrote:
>
> I
saw a few days ago the end of an interview with Allen Ginsberg, in
>
which he sang a song, accompanied by a strange instrument, like an
>
accordion, and it went something like this:
>
>
Father's death
>
...
>
Budha's death
>
...
>
Burroughs death
>
...
>
>
(note : this ... means that I don't remember the following verses...)
>
Does anyone know anything about this song/poem? If so, could you post
>
the poem here in the list?
>
>
thanks in advance...
>
daniel caridade
>
caridade@mail.telepac.pt
father
death blues. it is on the Ashes and
Blues CD in the Holy Soul
Jelly
Roll boxset.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:35:54 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: louis ginsberg's "To a mother,
buried"
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
beat-l'ers
just
thought that some of you migt like to read this poem by Luois
Ginsberg,
from his _Morning in Spring and other poems_
"To
a mother, buried"
Naomi,
when the world swam away,
and the
windows grew blind,
were
you thinking about who searched endless corridors
of
sanitariums, hoping to find
His old
lost love?
now
with eart above
do you
know that your lawyer son, Eugene,
often
will start,
at the
grief, shaking,
the
dungeon of his heart?
if only
you knew how
your
poet son, Allen,
Raves
over the world,
Crazed
for the love of you.
all
typos my own. i can send more info abt the book, etc if anyone wants
it.
hozah
derek
******************************************************************
Derek
Beaulieu
House
Press (limited ed. chapbooks, prints, etc)
#502-728
3rd Ave NW
Calgary,
Alberta, Canada, T2N 0J1
ph.
(403)270-4440, fax. 270-9357
"remove
literary, grammatical & syntactical inhibition" -Jack Kerouac
******************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:54:49 +0000
Reply-To: caridade@mail.telepac.pt
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: caridade
<caridade@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg Song/Poem
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
RACE
--- wrote:
>
father death blues. it is on the Ashes
and Blues CD in the Holy Soul
>
Jelly Roll boxset.
>
>
david rhaesa
>
salina, Kansas
thanks
a lot ...
Would
you mind posting the poem, pleaaaasssseeee??!!
daniel
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:21:52 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Neil M. Hennessy"
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Wising up the Marks
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Somebody
posted an announcement of a forthcoming book about Burroughs
called
Wising up the Marks. I was poking through the abstracts and journal
databases
and came across this:
TITLE
Wising Up the Marks: Amodernism in the Work of William S.
Burroughs and Gilles Deleuze
AUTHOR(S)
Murphy,-Timothy-Sean
SOURCE (BIBLIOGRAPHIC CITATION)
Dissertation-Abstracts-International, Ann Arbor, MI (DAI). 1995
July, 56:1, 189A DAI No.: DA9517708.
Degree granting
institution: U of California, Los
Angeles, 1994.
PUBLICATION YEAR
1995
ACCESSION NUMBER
95056680 .
This
has got to be the same thing, no? Is this Murphy just adapting this
dissertation
to be published in a book? Anyone have any info?
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:33:36 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: there's a Ferlinghetti's JK unpublished
poetry archive?
In-Reply-To: <199712040259.VAA27976@buffnet4.buffnet.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Nell'introduzione
a "Kerouac.Poesie beat" CARLO A. CORSI scrive:
"Kerouac
poeta. Di lui, a parte una quantita' di
inediti
che si troverebbero presso il noto
poeta
Lawrence Ferlinghetti..."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:40:16 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac and The Fifties
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:54:37 -0500
from
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
On Wed,
3 Dec 1997 21:54:37 -0500 Alex Howard said:
>It's
based on David Halberstam's book _The Fifties_ which is by far the
>best
history book on a specific era I've ever read.
We use it as the
>background
text for our Beat class here. Its the
way a history book
>should
be written. The series has been great
and I've been taping it as
>the
$100 they're charging to buy it is outrageous for a six tape set.
>
>------------------
>Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
>kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
>http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
$100 for SIX tapes seems reasonable to
me. That's only about $16 a tape.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:40:45 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Gender of Nature...
In-Reply-To:
<199712040259.VAA27976@buffnet4.buffnet.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Bill
Philibin says:
>>
Has anyone noticed that in, Desolation Angels, Jack refers to the moon as
>>
a she and the sun as a he? Usually, the moon is male (the man in the
>moon)
>>
and the sun is female(giver of light, life, etc). Do you think there's a
>>
reason for Jack's reversal of genders?
>
>
> Really?!?! I have always heard the moon refered to as female.
It's
the
>whole
Luna thing. And cyclic like a Womans
Cycle... Never really heard
>anything
about the Sun except for in Greek Lit.
>
> -Bill
>
>[ email: deadbeat@buffnet.net |
web: http://www.buffnet.net/~deadbeat ]
carissimi
amici beat,
if this
helps, i can tell you that in italian language
Moon=Luna
is female "la luna",
Sun=Sole
is male "il sole",
at the
beginning of italian oriented language the saint
San
Francesco D'Assisi in his prayers
called
the moon "sorella luna" "sister moon"
and the
sun "fratello sole" "brother sun".
maybe
Jack Kerouac is remembering the ancient
prayers
of the italian saint man?
un
saluto a tutti,
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:13:23 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: allow me to...
In-Reply-To: <yam7277.286.4820736@pac.com.au>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
12.55 04/12/97 +1000, John Pullicino wrote:
>Hi
there Rinaldo, on 27-Nov-97 you wrote...
>
>> i think back over the past, and
remember the on the road as
>> a story of a salesman (death of a
salesman). the american way
>> of life, religious of course, but keen
competition and no
>> pity for the loser. (Sur...
>hmm
- i remember buying 'naked lunch' from a bookstall in via veneto, and
>reading
it in the borghese gardens - it's easy to forget the doors those
>guys
opened up in peoples lives
>
heila'
John! i bought "On the Road" in a venetian bookstand and
was
november 1969, tha same year i was anarchist...
jack
kerouac was a boy next door...
p.s. au
pun punk are you knowing how many italians are in wangaratta?
un
saluto da Rinaldo.
*
"I
travel because I'm an Australian, and i've left Australia,
and i
don't consider any other place my home but Australia.
I feel
i'm Australian, i've an australian sense of humour"--Nick Cave
*
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:25:39 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Beat Generation multi-media???
In-Reply-To: <199712041301.IAA25521@pike.sover.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
marie
wrote:
>all
dylan said, 'to live outside the law you must be honest': as a person who
>has
no car and only enough possessions to fit into one room, and a penchant
>for
bussing it and training it to meet with poets and other mad ones, i
>hesistate
still to call myself beat, but i sure ain't mainstream, clearly. i
>don't
even work.
>mc
>
>>Ksenija
Simic wrote:
>>
i hope i'm not too confusing.
>>
>>
combien de temps?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:25:51 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Keratechnology
>>Timothy
Franklin Thomas writes:
Subject:
Re: Beat Generation multi-media???
It's
impossible to guess how Jack et al may have made use of this new
technology.
Don't be to sure of your position. With the sheer volume of
letters
available I believe they would have made good use of email.<<
I'm not
so sure. There is a reason why Jack used paper, and not the phone to
communicate.
I think it's for documentation . E mail is erased after being
read.
Phone call is forgotten. Letters are here almost forever.
I do
think he would have liked writing on a computer without having to stop
to
change sheets of paper, though he would have bitched about the lack of
noise
and rhythm.
so it
goes, Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:09:13 -0500
Reply-To: "Neil M. Hennessy"
<nhenness@uwaterloo.ca>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Neil M. Hennessy"
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: race on burroughs
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
A while
back RACE posted some questions about Burroughs that I offered
some
sketchy thoughts about. I found the bibliographical info for the
journal
discussed below.
[snip]
>
4) Stasis Horrors. This seems to be a biological argument by
WSB for
>
movement -- I've seen and heard of it many many times. Can folks help
> me
out with specific references.
The
"Stasis Horrors" would correspond most directly with Burroughs'
notions
of homo sap being "the human artifact". He discusses this in The
Job, I
believe, as well as The Adding Machine.
I read
an article in a scholarly journal from England that claimed that
Burroughs'
concept of getting into space was like the traditional concept
of the
soul coming free of the body, so you may want to examine some of
the
ontological precepts governing Burroughs' notions of escaping Time to
get
into Space. Another thing that aligns Burroughs with some traditional
Christian
notions of spirituality is his horror and revulsion of the body.
This is
discussed in "The Postmodern Anus", from _At the Front_.
[snip]
The
article is as follows:
TITLE
The Long Last Goodbye: Control and
Resistance in the Work of
William Burroughs
AUTHOR(S)
Ayers,-David
SOURCE (BIBLIOGRAPHIC CITATION)
Journal-of-American-Studies,
Cambridge, England (JAmS). 1993
Aug, 27:2, 223-36.
PUBLICATION YEAR
1993
ACCESSION NUMBER
93060184 .
[snip]
So
anyone interested in it can find it from your local library or through
inter-library
loan. The discussion of the soul/space issue is brief, but
illuminating,
and the rest of the article is worth reading for a look at
Burroughs'
modernist quest for absolute freedom.
Although
the boundaries between categorizations like modern and postmodern
are
highly artificial and much debated, it always amuses me to find
Burroughs
situated by people when discussing his fight against control as
modern,
his compostional techniques and treatment of sex as postmodern,
his
cosmology as neo-romantic (in its relationship with Blake, see
Ginsberg
for this). He really gets around.
Cheers,
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:26:03 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: SOTD
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:50:36 -0500
from
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
I
decided at the last minute that I'd go down to St. Marks for the
reading. It wasn't what I expected. I guess I thought it would be more
like
the celebration of OTR, where people were essentially reading
passages
from the work. The evening opened with
introductory remarks by
editor
David Stanford, who provided both historical background and
comments
on editorial problems associated with publishing the SOD
manuscript. Ann Douglas provided additional background
reading and
commented
on Kerouac's buddhist beliefs, and read letters K had sent to
Allen
Ginsberg at the time he was working on SOD.
The rest of the
program
was really a musical tribute with pieces by David Amram, Ed
Sanders,
Hitchhiker, Lee Renaldo and others.
Anne Waldman also
performed
a couple of pieces. The program began
about 8:30 and ended around
10:30. There was nearly a full house.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:49:38 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: elf abuse
Did
somebody mention elf abuse? Tis the
season....
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:56:45 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maggie Gerrity
<u2ginsberg@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Father Death Blues
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
"Father Death Blues"
Hey
Father Death I'm flying home
Hey
poor man you're all alone
Hey old
daddy, I know where I'm going
Father
Death, Don't cry any more
Mama's
there underneath the floor
Brother
Death, please mind the store
Old
Aunty Death Don't hide your bones
Old
Uncle Death I hear your groans
O
Sister Death how sweet your moans
O
Children Deaths go breathe your breaths
Sobbing
breasts'll case your Deaths
Pain is
gone, tears take the rest
Genius
Death your art is done
Lover
Death your body's gone
Father
Death I'm coming home
Guru
Death your words are true
Teacher
Death I do thank you
For
inspiring me to sing this Blues
Buddha
Death, I wake with you
Dharma
Death, your mind is new
Sangha
Death, we'll work it through
Suffering
is what was born
Ignorance
made me forlorn
Tearful
truths I cannot scorn
Father
Breath once more farewell
Birth
you gave was no thing ill
My
heart is still, as time will tell
Allen
Ginsberg
A generous slice of Ginsbergian wisdom! One
of his best, in my
opinion.
Enjoy!
Maggie
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU
YAHOO!?
Get
your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:09:37 +0000
Reply-To: caridade@mail.telepac.pt
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: caridade
<caridade@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>
Subject: Re: Father Death Blues
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Maggie
Gerrity wrote:
>
> "Father Death
Blues"
>
>
Hey Father Death I'm flying home
>
Hey poor man you're all alone
>
Hey old daddy, I know where I'm going
>
>
Father Death, Don't cry any more
>
Mama's there underneath the floor
>
Brother Death, please mind the store
>
>
Old Aunty Death Don't hide your bones
>
Old Uncle Death I hear your groans
> O
Sister Death how sweet your moans
>
> O
Children Deaths go breathe your breaths
>
Sobbing breasts'll case your Deaths
>
Pain is gone, tears take the rest
>
>
Genius Death your art is done
>
Lover Death your body's gone
>
Father Death I'm coming home
>
>
Guru Death your words are true
>
Teacher Death I do thank you
>
For inspiring me to sing this Blues
>
>
Buddha Death, I wake with you
>
Dharma Death, your mind is new
>
Sangha Death, we'll work it through
>
>
Suffering is what was born
>
Ignorance made me forlorn
>
Tearful truths I cannot scorn
>
>
Father Breath once more farewell
>
Birth you gave was no thing ill
> My
heart is still, as time will tell
>
Thank
you all for the help given...
This is
truly a breath from the great ones...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:52:59 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Gender of Nature...
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
rinaldo,
thank you for the italian roots that echo the greek
Rinaldo
Rasa wrote: >
>
dear rinaldo, thank you for the italian version of the greek. being greek, i
>
grew up on my mema's lap reading of the gods and their powers and place in
>
the heavens. your saint takes it one step further into the christian-judaeic
>
world. it is always so sweet to hear your voice within your letters.
marie.
>
>
>
>
carissimi amici beat,
>
> if
this helps, i can tell you that in italian language
>
Moon=Luna is female "la luna",
>
Sun=Sole is male "il sole",
> at
the beginning of italian oriented language the saint
>
San Francesco D'Assisi in his prayers
>
called the moon "sorella luna" "sister moon"
>
and the sun "fratello sole" "brother sun".
>
>
maybe Jack Kerouac is remembering the ancient
>
prayers of the italian saint man?
>
> un
saluto a tutti,
>
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:26:06 -0800
Reply-To: balkose@egenet.com.tr
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Murat Balkose
<balkose@EGENET.COM.TR>
Subject: Re: Jim Morrison
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Rinaldo
Rasa wrote:
>
>
Murat wrote:
>
>Hello,
>
[..]
>
>At 1970, Jim Morrison meets beat poet Michael McClure. McClure
>
>tries to persuade Jim to print his poem book -Gods - New Creatures-.Does
>
>any one know more about this story..
>
>
Jim Morrison Interview by Jerry Hopkins - Rolling Stone 26th jul 1969.?
>
[]yes
>
[]no
[+] i dont know.
>
> Also what is relation between Jim
>
>and the beats..
>
>
1967 Summer of Love?
>
[]yes
>
[]no
[+] i dont know.
>
saluti a tutti da rinaldo
>
today it's a foggy, rainy venice, italy.
>
*Hola estimado amigo daniel! have an happy week.*
Hello Rinaldo and beat-l'ers,
Thanks to the people who wrote about Jim
Morrison and the beats. (esp.
William
Kelly Norton Jr ). But I think Rinaldo know more , i answered
his
small test . I wonder what did Jim Morrison said during that
interview
about the beats.. And in the year 1967 Summer of love . Hope
you
tell more.
Yrs,
Murat.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:26:40 -0800
Reply-To: balkose@egenet.com.tr
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Murat Balkose
<balkose@EGENET.COM.TR>
Subject: Re: beat influence
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Maggie
Gerrity wrote:
>
> All this talk about Bob Dylan and Jim
Morrison has gotten me
>
thinking about what other musicians were/are heavily influenced by the
>
Beats. I see a lot of Beat influence in Patti Smith's work, as well as
>
Lou Reed's and U2's. Can anyone think of any others? I'll be
>
interested to hear the replies!
> Maggie
As far as i know punk/rap/rock band RAGE
AGAINST THE MACHINE got some
influence
from the beats: The Solist reads Allen Ginsberg poem America
before
each concert and in lyrics of song "Take The Power Back" it says
">its
the beats and lyrics they fear." But i am not very sure if they
are
telling the same beats...
Take
The Power Back
In the
right light, study becomes insight
But the
system that dissed us
Teaches
us to read and write
So-called
facts are fraud
They
want us to allege and pledge
And bow
down to their god
Lost
the culture, the culture lost
Spun
our minds and through time
Ignorance
has taken over
We
gotta take the power back
Bam,
here's the plan
Mother
fuck uncle Sam
Step
back, I know who I am
Raise
up your ear, I'll drop the style and clear
>It's
the beats and lyrics they fear
The
rage is relentless
We need
a movement with a quickness
You are
the witness of change
And to
counteract
We
gotta take the power back
The
present curriculums
I put
my fist in em
Eurocentric
every last one of 'em
See
right through the red, white and
Blue disguise
With
lecture, I puncture the
Structure
of lies
Installed
in our minds and attempting
To hold
us back
We've
got to take it back 'cause holes in our spirit are causin' tears
and
fears
One-sided
stories for years and years and years
I'm
inferior? Who's inferior?
Yea, we
need to check the interior
Of the
system who cares about only one culture
And
that is why
We
gotta take the power back
The
teacher stands in front of the class
But the
lesson plan he can't recall
The
student's eyes don't perceive the lies
Bouncing
off every fucking wall
His
composure is well kept
I guess
he fears playing the fool
The
complacent students sit and listen to the
Bullshit
that he learned in school
Europe
ain't my rope to swing on
Can't
learn a thing from it
Yet we
hang from it
Gotta
get it, gotta get it together then
Like
the mother fuckin' weathermen
To
expose and close the doors on those who try
To
strangle and mangle the truth 'cause the circle of hatred continues
unless
we react
We
gotta take the power back
(From
the album Rage Against the Machine.)
Yrs,
Murat.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:10:24 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Amy Dawn Vokac
<vokac@STUDENTS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dylan Thomas
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SOL.3.95.971204110040.9139A-100000@comp>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu,
4 Dec 1997, Donald G. Jr. Lee wrote:
> I
know virtually zilch about Dylan Thomas--can anyone suggest a good book
>
and/or website? Plus, which of his
poetry collections is best? Plus
>
anything anybody else has to add...
>
>
thanks
>
>
Don Lee
>
Fayetteville, Ark.
>
>
"Might as well be frank, monsieur.
It would take a miracle to get you
>
out of Casablanca and the Germans have outlawed miracles."
>
In high
school my theatre department did Under Milkwood. His language
is
beautiful in it.
Amy
Vokac
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:01:15 -0500
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gender of Nature...
Reply
to message from rinaldo@GPNET.IT of Thu, 04 Dec
>
>Bill
Philibin says:
>>>
Has anyone noticed that in, Desolation Angels, Jack refers to the moon as
>>>
a she and the sun as a he? Usually, the moon is male (the man in the
>>moon)
>>>
and the sun is female(giver of light, life, etc). Do you think there's a
>>>
reason for Jack's reversal of genders?
>>
>>
>> Really?!?! I have always heard the moon refered to as female.
>It's
the
>>whole
Luna thing. And cyclic like a Womans
Cycle... Never really heard
>>anything
about the Sun except for in Greek Lit.
>>
>> -Bill
>>
>>[ email: deadbeat@buffnet.net |
web: http://www.buffnet.net/~deadbeat
]
>
>carissimi
amici beat,
>
>if
this helps, i can tell you that in italian language
>Moon=Luna
is female "la luna",
>Sun=Sole
is male "il sole",
>at
the beginning of italian oriented language the saint
>San
Francesco D'Assisi in his prayers
>called
the moon "sorella luna" "sister moon"
>and
the sun "fratello sole" "brother sun".
>
>maybe
Jack Kerouac is remembering the ancient
>prayers
of the italian saint man?
>
>un
saluto a tutti,
>Rinaldo.
same in
Spanish, la luna and el sol
Diane.
--
"This
is Beat. Live your lives out? Naw, _love_ your lives out!"
--Jack
Kerouac
Diane
Marie Homza
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu