=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:14:51 -0500
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From: Al Aronowitz <blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>
Subject: GRAUERHOLZ
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Anybody
got his email address? -Al Aronowitz
--
***************************************
Al
Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:30:02 -0600
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Keratechnology
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Attila
Gyenis wrote:
>
>
>>Timothy Franklin Thomas writes:
>
Subject: Re: Beat Generation multi-media???
>
>
It's impossible to guess how Jack et al may have made use of this new
>
technology. Don't be to sure of your position. With the sheer volume of
>
letters available I believe they would have made good use of email.<<
>
>
I'm not so sure. There is a reason why Jack used paper, and not the phone to
>
communicate. I think it's for documentation . E mail is erased after being
>
read. Phone call is forgotten. Letters are here almost forever.
>
> I
do think he would have liked writing on a computer without having to stop
> to
change sheets of paper, though he would have bitched about the lack of
>
noise and rhythm.
>
> so
it goes, Attila
other
than the notion of "noise" i don't understand this at all.
e-mails
can be saved easily and many listserves are archived for
posterity. as for rhythm it seems that one finds a beat
at a keyboard
as
easily as at an underwood.
bipbangbloopblat my fingers strike keys
as i
listen to Jack on the CD player (definitely not noise).
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
therefore
in conclusion ladies and gentlemen i decidate this poem
...........
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:37:47 -0700
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From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: canuck mail strike
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beat-Lers
i just
though that everyone should know that the canadian mai strike is
over
and the mail should start moving soon. HORAY!
if any
of you had made arrangements with me to pick up some of my prints,
etc -
your mail should be moving and let me know if you have any questions
of
concerns.
yrs
derek
beaulieu
******************************************************************
Derek
Beaulieu
House
Press (limited ed. chapbooks, prints, etc)
#502-728
3rd Ave NW
Calgary,
Alberta, Canada, T2N 0J1
ph.
(403)270-4440, fax. 270-9357
"remove
literary, grammatical & syntactical inhibition" -Jack Kerouac
******************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:46:02 -0800
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From: Ryan White
<whitery@UCS.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: beat influence
In-Reply-To: <3487BAB5.7C58@egenet.com.tr>
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>
> As far as i know punk/rap/rock band RAGE
AGAINST THE MACHINE got some
>
influence from the beats: The Solist reads Allen Ginsberg poem America
>
before each concert and in lyrics of song "Take The Power Back" it
says
>
">its the beats and lyrics they fear." But i am not very sure if
they
>
are telling the same beats.
I've
listened to quite bit of Rage, and I don't believe the "beats"
they're
talking about are anything more than musical.
I could be wrong,
these
guys are pretty well read and very political.
They did do a
rendition
of Ginsberg's "Hadda Been Playing On The Jukebox."
Buh-Bye!
Ryan
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:51:42 -0800
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From: Ryan White
<whitery@UCS.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: the last time....
In-Reply-To:
<971204101455_-1875617360@mrin51.mail.aol.com>
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On Thu,
4 Dec 1997, First_Name Last_Name wrote:
> In
a message dated 97-12-04 09:32:18 EST, you write:
>
>
<< I had
> ever rewound after 17 minutes >>
>
I have
to admit, I enjoyed the film. I
actually think that the camera
work
helped enforce the image of Neal as a nonstop mover talker and
thinker,
and all this set to the jazzy bebop beats.
Sorry, I thought it
was
great!
Buh-Bye!
Ryan
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:53:42 -0500
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Chelsea Hotel
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Is that
the same hotel that Dylan once lived in?
If so, does it change
the
meaning (to me) of this line from Sara?
Stayin'
up for days in the Chelsea Hotel,
Writin'
"Sad-Eyed Lady of the Lowlands" for you.
Nah,
not really, but it would be interesting to know what sort of
literary
types have lived at the Chelsea. Didn't
Joni Mitchell do a
song about
it too?
Al, can
you enlighten us on the Chelsea and its occupants?
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:51:20 -0600
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Chelsea Hotel
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R.
Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
> Is
that the same hotel that Dylan once lived in?
If so, does it change
>
the meaning (to me) of this line from Sara?
>
>
Stayin' up for days in the Chelsea Hotel,
>
Writin' "Sad-Eyed Lady of the Lowlands" for you.
>
>
Nah, not really, but it would be interesting to know what sort of
>
literary types have lived at the Chelsea.
Didn't Joni Mitchell do a
>
song about it too?
>
>
Al, can you enlighten us on the Chelsea and its occupants?
>
> --
>
>
Peace,
>
>
Bentz
>
bocelts@scsn.net
>
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
don't
forget leonard cohen
i
remember you well at the chelsea hotel....giving me head on the unmade
bed.....
david rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:03:10 -0700
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From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: Chelsea Hotel
In-Reply-To: <34873476.73E941E2@scsn.net>
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leonard
cohen also mentions the chelsea in his tribute to janis joplin
(damn
what was the name of that song...?) anyways the lines goes:
"i
remeber you well in th chelsea hotel...
that is
all i
do
think you of you that often..."
and as
far as i remember the chelsea was also home to herbert huncke for a
while,
and countless other artists, etc (motherwell? rauchenberg? uh...)
yrs
derek
******************************************************************
Derek
Beaulieu
House
Press (limited ed. chapbooks, prints, etc)
#502-728
3rd Ave NW
Calgary,
Alberta, Canada, T2N 0J1
ph.
(403)270-4440, fax. 270-9357
"remove
literary, grammatical & syntactical inhibition" -Jack Kerouac
******************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:26:45 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Sean Young <syoung@DSW.COM>
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Harry Smith lived and died there as well.
______________________________
Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject:
Re: Chelsea Hotel
Author: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> at Internet
Date: 12/4/97 4:03 PM
leonard
cohen also mentions the chelsea in his tribute to janis joplin
(damn
what was the name of that song...?) anyways the lines goes:
"i
remeber you well in th chelsea hotel...
that is
all i
do
think you of you that often..."
and as
far as i remember the chelsea was also home to herbert huncke for a
while,
and countless other artists, etc (motherwell? rauchenberg? uh...)
yrs
derek
******************************************************************
Derek
Beaulieu
House
Press (limited ed. chapbooks, prints, etc)
#502-728
3rd Ave NW
Calgary,
Alberta, Canada, T2N 0J1
ph.
(403)270-4440, fax. 270-9357
"remove
literary, grammatical & syntactical inhibition" -Jack Kerouac
******************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:31:05 -0500
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From: Sara Brosnan
<coffee@MAIL.WDN.COM>
Subject: Re: beat influence
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> As far as i know punk/rap/rock band RAGE
AGAINST THE MACHINE got some
>
>
influence from the beats: The Solist reads Allen Ginsberg poem America
>
>
before each concert and in lyrics of song "Take The Power Back" it
>
says
>
">its the beats and lyrics they fear." But i am not very sure if
they
>
are telling the same beats...
>
>
(From the album Rage Against the Machine.)
>
I've
been hearing a lot about RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE from various
sources. And I like the lyrics to "Take the
Power Back". Does anyone
have
any sugessitions of what album would be best to buy?
Sara
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:31:36 -0800
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From: Eric Lytle <e.lytle@CED.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Re: beat influence
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Sara
Brosnan wrote:
>
I've been hearing a lot about RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE from various
>
sources. And I like the lyrics to
"Take the Power Back". Does
anyone
>
>
have any sugessitions of what album would be best to buy?
>
>
Sara
They only have two albums released in the
US. IMHO, the first
album, self-titled, is far better. It has a
b&w picture of a monk in
flames. Very moving cover, music even more moving.
Gets all the angst
out.
-E
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:29:52 EST
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From: GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Dylan Thomas
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Hey- as
for poetry other than American- you have Thomas, Rilke, and Yeats-
anything
else is a shallow imitation- wonder if I will get any flack on this?
GT
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:01:02 -0500
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From: Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: Keratechnology
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BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU,.Internet
writes:
>I'm
not so sure. There is a reason why Jack used paper, and not the
>phone
to
>communicate.
I think it's for documentation . E mail is erased after
>being
>read.
Phone call is forgotten. Letters are here almost forever.
keep in
mind also the comparative cost of phone vs. mail... i think
it's
obvious that the beats wouldn't have had an aversion to new
technology,
jack, and especially allen, were on tv frequently and both
made
numerous recordings, jack extremely interested in using recording
devices
to tape himself, etc... the fact that he mixed media with jazz
and
lit., an aversion to new technology as inferior to classic form is
a
symptom of vain intellectualism... they were too genius to succumb to
that
trap or exclude any possibility of expanding their art based
solely
on technological vanity.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:31:03 EST
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From: CIRCULATION
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beat Bars/Taverns
If you
lined up end-to-end all the beers Kerouac, Wolfe and Thomas ever drank,
how far
would they go?
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:36:53 EST
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From: CIRCULATION
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Life imatates diaries
I heard
on the news tonight about the kid who went beserk in Kentucky with a
rifle
and killed three of his classmates, & was supposedly influenced by a scene
in the
movie they made from Jim Carroll's BASKETBALL DIARIES. The scene depicts
a kids
fantasy of doing the same. killing all his classmates with a rifle.
Has
anyone heard any comments from Jim Carroll about this? Damn, at least the
kids
didn't start using drugs instead!
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:27:46 -0600
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From: Irving Leif
<ileif@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: St. Mark's Reading
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Nancy,
You are
so right. I had a great time
myself. It was truly a landmark
event. Most importantly, there was a whole new
generation of Kerouac
readers. Amram was great, but so was Ann Waldman.
Irving
At
09:50 AM 12/4/97 -0500, you wrote:
>I
went to the Some of the Dharma Reading last night at St.Mark's Church
>and
it was awesome. I went by myself and wound up meeting this really cool
>art
teacher from Mass. and the performances were so cool. David Amram was
>great
at everything...he played the piano, flute, drums, whatever, and he
>sang.
It was my first time at the Poetry Project and it was just great! I
>hope
those of you who were there, enjoyed it!
>~Nancy
>
>The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
>Sure-JK
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:50:56 -0500
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From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: SOTD
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997120415374286@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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It was
a reading of Some of The Dharma...what were you expecting, not to
be rude
or anything? Everything that was read came from the book.
~Nancy
On Thu,
4 Dec 1997, Bill Gargan wrote:
> I
decided at the last minute that I'd go down to St. Marks for the
>
reading. It wasn't what I
expected. I guess I thought it would be
more
>
like the celebration of OTR, where people were essentially reading
>
passages from the work. The evening
opened with introductory remarks by
>
editor David Stanford, who provided both historical background and
>
comments on editorial problems associated with publishing the SOD
>
manuscript. Ann Douglas provided
additional background reading and
>
commented on Kerouac's buddhist beliefs, and read letters K had sent to
>
Allen Ginsberg at the time he was working on SOD. The rest of the
>
program was really a musical tribute with pieces by David Amram, Ed
>
Sanders, Hitchhiker, Lee Renaldo and others.
Anne Waldman also
>
performed a couple of pieces. The
program began about 8:30 and ended around
>
10:30. There was nearly a full house.
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:12:47 -0800
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From: Levi Asher
<brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Chelsea Hotel
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.971204160052.78138A-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
from "Derek A. Beaulieu" at Dec 4,
97 04:03:10 pm
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>
leonard cohen also mentions the chelsea in his tribute to janis joplin
>
(damn what was the name of that song...?) anyways the lines goes:
>
"i remeber you well in th chelsea hotel...
>
that is all i
> do
think you of you that often..."
>
and as far as i remember the chelsea was also home to herbert huncke for a
>
while, and countless other artists, etc (motherwell? rauchenberg? uh...)
My wife
and I had our honeymoon there (not much money at the time,
so we
couldn't do Paris). Pretty romantic
place, funky atmosphere,
lobby
full of paintings by local artists.
Back then only about $100
a
night, not bad. I definitely recommend
it whenever friends ask
me
where they should stay. On 23rd and
7th.
-------------------------------------------------------
| Levi
Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
|
|
|
| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (the beat literature web site) |
|
|
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
|
|
|
*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---* |
| |
| "When I was crazy, I thought you
were great" |
| -- Ric
Ocasek |
-------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:19:26 -0600
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From: "Donald G. Jr. Lee"
<donlee@COMP.UARK.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beat Bars/Taverns
Comments:
To: CIRCULATION <breithau@KENYON.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <009BE47C.01479DE0.68@kenyon.edu>
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AROUND
THE MOON TWICE?
"To
live outside the law you must be honest."
--Bob
Dylan
On Thu,
4 Dec 1997, CIRCULATION wrote:
> If
you lined up end-to-end all the beers Kerouac, Wolfe and Thomas ever drank,
>
how far would they go?
>
>
Dave B.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:29:55 EST
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From: DCardKJHS <DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: the last time....
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In a
message dated 97-12-04 11:10:42 EST, Kindlesan wrote:
<< i don't believe we can necessarily label
interpretations of one or two people from
that time period unless we
ourselves spent significant time with
them.......
>>
Most
folks on the list HAVE spent significant time with them...that film is
one of
the worst pieces of trash ever foisted on the public.
Best
regards, Dennis
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:19:24 -0500
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From: "PoOka(the friendly ghost)"
<jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
Subject: pop music and the beats.
Mime-Version:
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has
anyone mentioned the 10,000 Maniacs song, "Hey Jack Kerouac" ? This
is an
obvious beat influenced song by Natale Merchant. I have seen a few
postings
about rage against the machine. Can't say i like them personally
because
after meeting with the lead singer and actually talking about
current
issues of the time, i found him to be a sheer hypocrite. Back in
1993
during the Lollapalooza tour, rage was playing. At the spoken word
tent he
was answering questions by the fans that decided to visit him in
the
tent. When the singer, Zak, was asked if he would support free speech
he
said, "of course." When asked if he would support Howard STern and
his
fight
against the FCC, zak changed his tune and said, "No way man.
Howard
is a racist." If memory serves correct, Zak was the same
"racist"
who
insisted of only having native americans at some of his shows in the
mid
west. Funny how some people try to play both sides of the fence.
jason
ps. if
anyone is looking for some music that isn't drenched in politics
like
Rage, i suggest Jawbox. Very poetic and they even wrote a song based
on a
william carlose williams poem.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:37:22 -0500
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From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Dylan Thomas
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At
04:10 PM 12/4/97 -0600, Amy Vokac wrote:
>In
high school my theatre department did Under Milkwood.
>His
languageis beautiful in it.
Bob
Dylan a.k.a. Robert Milkwood Thomas
on:
Steve
Goodman: Somebody Else's Troubles - 1973
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:39:53 -0500
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From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Chelsea Hotel
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At
05:53 PM 12/4/97 -0500, Bentz wrote:
>Is
that the same hotel that Dylan once lived in?
If so, does it change
>the
meaning (to me) of this line from Sara?
>
>Stayin'
up for days in the Chelsea Hotel,
>Writin'
"Sad-Eyed Lady of the Lowlands" for you.
>
>Nah,
not really, but it would be interesting to know what sort of
>literary
types have lived at the Chelsea. Didn't
Joni Mitchell do a
>song
about it too?
Leonard
Cohen got head from Janis Joplin there.
As
imortalized
in the song.
Mike
PS. As
well as the Sid & Nancy connection.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:41:24 -0500
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From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Beat Bars/Taverns
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At
08:31 PM 12/4/97 EST, Dave B. wrote:
>If
you lined up end-to-end all the beers Kerouac, Wolfe and Thomas ever drank,
>how
far would they go?
My
liver. . .
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:44:41 -0600
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From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: the last time....
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At
12:45 PM 12/4/97 +1000, you wrote:
>G'day
all,
>
>has
anyone else had the sad misfortune of seeing a film called "The last
>time
i committed suicide" , which i sat through last night hissing through
>clamped
teeth? I've often wondered when or whether the right kind of movie
>treatment
of some beat writers will eventuate - this was a really
>mindfuckingly
stupid attempt, dealing as it did with a visual rendition of
>one
of neal cassady's letters to jack - little bits of dialogue here and
>there
offered promises almost immediately dashed against some
>hollywood/madison
avenue figment of 'the beat'
>
>
>i
dont want to say more at this stage other that the only authentic feel
>for
the time is the music (a la miles davis, or maybe himself - i couldnt
>be
bothered scanning the credits)
>
>i
heard/read somewhere that FFCoppola has the rights to 'on the road' -
>anyone
know more?
>--
>bye
for now,
>#<|||||||||||||||||||||||>#
John Pullicino #<|||||||||||||||||||||||>#
>(|||||||||||||||||||) #jjpull@pac.com.au# (|||||||||||||||||||)
>#<|||||||||||||>#
*Team AMIGA WorldWide* #<|||||||||||||||>#
>
>
John,
we've had both of these threads earlier.
Coppola is working on
OTR. A lot of people here liked the Last Time I
etc. I agree with
you.
Mike
Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:58:44 -0500
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From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat Bars/Taverns
In-Reply-To: <009BE47C.01479DE0.68@kenyon.edu>
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>If
you lined up end-to-end all the beers Kerouac, Wolfe and Thomas ever drank,
>how
far would they go?
>
>Dave
B.
All the
way to the Beat List.
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors
07-01-96 to 11-28-97
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Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:47:20 EST
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From: Sad enigma <Sadenigma@AOL.COM>
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Subject: Re: Chelsea Hotel
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valori
salanis(sp?) who wrote the scum
manifesto was there for awhile. so
was sid
vicious and nancy spungeon, who died there.
my 1 1/2 cents have a
nice
night and a happy halloween
chad
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:28:30 -0500
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From: Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Cakebread, Dylan and Bern....
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Hi
Mike,
Can you fill in a few more details for
us? Does Goodman use that
name as
a veiled reference to Mr. Zimmerman? ...in the song you mentioned?
Speaking of Dylan, did you catch an
article in the Globe and Mail
back at
the end of October titled Tangled up in Bob? It covered other
singers
with strong dylanesque leanings including one Dan Bern. He is quite
amazing...not
quite sure how much is send-up vs. being totally immersed and
in love
with the sound. Very good album with two decidedly beat songs:
"Rome"
with a real on the road road song feel.....
We pulled into Rome with blood in our
eyes
After days of travellin', months of
lies.
Takin' our various turns at the wheel
Taking booze and pot and cigarettes,
anything not to feel.
and
"wasteland"...
I saw the best minds of my generation
playing pinball
Maked up and caked up and lookin' like some kind of china
doll
With all of Adolf Hitler's moves down
cold
As they stood up in front of a rock n'
roll band
And always movin' upward and ever
upward to this gentle golden
promised
land.
I haven't tired of him yet. The
article is worth reading also if you
haven't
seen it.
Antoine
********************
>At
04:10 PM 12/4/97 -0600, Amy Vokac wrote:
>
>>In
high school my theatre department did Under Milkwood.
>>His
languageis beautiful in it.
>
>Bob
Dylan a.k.a. Robert Milkwood Thomas
>
>on:
>
>Steve
Goodman: Somebody Else's Troubles - 1973
>
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves,
for they shall never
cease
to be amused."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:03:34 EST
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From: Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>
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Subject: Re: the last time....
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In a
message dated 97-12-05 00:06:37 EST, you write:
<<
Most folks on the list HAVE spent significant time with them. >>
well in
that case i suppose i can just keep my mouth shut ;o)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:03:58 -0500
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From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Cakebread, Dylan and Bern....
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At
01:28 AM 12/5/97 -0500, Antoine wrote:
>Can
you fill in a few more details for us? Does
>Goodman
use that name as a veiled reference
>to
Mr. Zimmerman? ...in the song you
mentioned?
Hey
Antoine et al,
"Robert
Milkwood Thomas" is a pseudonym that Dylan used
on the
Goodman album mentioned in the original post.
He
plays piano and sings harmony on two songs:
"Election
Year Rag"
"Somebody
Else's Troubles"
>Speaking
of Dylan, did you catch an article in the Globe and Mail
>back
at the end of October titled Tangled up in Bob?
No I
didn't, but my roomates have a whole pile of old
Globe's
kicking around and I'll root through em.
If it's
not
there I'll hit the library.
Thanx,
Mike
(PS. How's things in Montreal? Keeping
the Maudit(sp.)
cold?)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:07:10 -0600
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From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: music
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I am
not a musical person but.
When i
was house sitting for william (wsb) when he was in new york for
his 70
birthday, i got a phone call and . oh around 7, asking for
william's
number in NY, i politely said, im sorry but i can't give out
where
he is ( he was at the bunker getting ready to go to the party) ,
the man
said he would like the address of the bunker or address of the
place
of the party, again i demurred. we were at a stalemate, then i
offered
to take his number and give it to william, the guy said yes,
yes,
i'm frank zappa, well i did a double take, then said,(looking
hurriedly
in williams rollodex, under frank, there he was. then quickly
gavin
mr zappa the particulars. I heard he
sent literally dozens of
long
stem red roses to the bar where the party was at. It was quite a
party. william brought me back the neatest poster,
it was a shadowy
siluette
of him. signed by the artist and by william. I know that this
might
not be "not boring" but i so seldom have a musical story. I
remember
that when bob dylan played in kansas city, william went and
visited
with him back stage. James g has group and i hear it is very
good, i haven't made it out to hear him. as i have
"married with
children"
syndrome.
patricia
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Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:09:47 -0600
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From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: music ps
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i also
remember that william was flattered that david bowie had painted
a
protrait of him, I remember hearing it was very striking.
patricia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:00:27 -0800
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From: Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUNET.YU>
Subject: Re: Dylan Thomas
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Donald
G. Jr. Lee wrote:
>
> I
know virtually zilch about Dylan Thomas--can anyone suggest a good book
>
and/or website? Plus, which of his
poetry collections is best? Plus
>
anything anybody else has to add...
>
> thanks
>
>
Don Lee
>
Fayetteville, Ark.
>
>
"Might as well be frank, monsieur.
It would take a miracle to get you
>
out of Casablanca and the Germans have outlawed miracles."
his
stories, by all means. instead of reading new books, i read them
three
times; they are completely psychodelic; and they just can't seem
to
leave me.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:34:31 -0800
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From: sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: music ps
Frank
Zappa - now there's one hell of a guy.
if you haven't heard it, his
last cd
"The Yellow Shark" is amazing.
it's more of a "serious" music
style,
performed by an avante-garde chamber ensemble - reminiscent of Cage,
Glass,
Schoenberg, yet all very Zappa, as only Zappa can be. but it's full
of
outrageous, beautiful, caustic, funny, dark, enlightened sound, words and
ideas. check it out if you get a chance. Frank began to be quite ill while
the
"ensemble" was being toured around the world and i'm not sure if the
cd
was
released before his death or not.
ciao,
sherri
-----Original
Message-----
From:
Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date:
Thursday, December 04, 1997 11:11 PM
Subject:
music ps
>i
also remember that william was flattered that david bowie had painted
>a
protrait of him, I remember hearing it was very striking.
>patricia
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:39:40 -0800
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From: sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: this is long and i know this isn't Beat,
but
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it's
wonderful. and the notion about life and destiny seems right in =
line
with our Beat folks.
=20
>From
Milan Kundera's "The Book of Laughter and Forgetting":
=20
"At
the same time, he made a name for himself as a scientist, and that =
protected
him. The state needed him, so he could
allow himself to be =
caustic
about it at a time when hardly anyone was daring to. Little by =
little,
as those who were in pursuit of their own act gained influence, =
he
appeared on television more and more, becoming well known. After the =
Russians
arrived, he refused to renounce his convictions, was removed =
from
his job and hounded by the secret police.
That didn't break him. =
He was
in love with his destiny, and even his march toward ruin seemed =
noble
and beauitful to him.
=20
Please
understand me: I said he was in love
with his destiny, not with =
himself. These are two entirely different
things. It is as if life had =
freed
itself and suddenly had interests of its own, which did not =
correspond
at all to Mirek's. This is how, I
believe, life turns itself =
into
destiny. Destiny has no intention of
lifting a finger for Mirek =
(for
his happiness, his security, his good spirits, his health), whereas =
Mirek
is ready to do everything for his destiny (for its grandeur, its =
clarity,
its beauty, its style, its intelligible meaning). He felt =
responsible
for his destiny, but his destiny did not feel responsible =
for
him.
=20
His
connection to his life was that of a sculptor to his statue or a =
novelist
to a novel...."
ciao,
sherri
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<META
content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE
HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN"><BASE=20
href=3D"file://C:\Program
Files\Common Files\Microsoft =
Shared\Stationery\">
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<DIV><FONT
color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript size=3D5>it's wonderful. =
and the
notion=20
about
life and destiny seems right in line with our Beat =
folks.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript =
size=3D5></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript size=3D5>From Milan =
Kundera's
"The=20
Book of
Laughter and Forgetting":</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
face=3DLoosieScript></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
face=3DLoosieScript>"At the same time, he made a name =
for
himself=20
as a
scientist, and that protected him. The state needed him, so =
he
could=20
allow
himself to be caustic about it at a time when hardly anyone was =
daring=20
to.
Little by little, as those who were in pursuit of their own =
act
gained=20
influence,
he appeared on television more and more, becoming well =
known. =20
After
the Russians arrived, he refused to renounce his convictions, was =
removed=20
from
his job and hounded by the secret police. That didn't break=20
him.
He was in love with his destiny, and even his march toward =
ruin=20
seemed
noble and beauitful to him.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
face=3DLoosieScript></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
face=3DLoosieScript>Please understand me: I said he was =
in
love=20
with
his destiny, not with himself. These are two entirely =
different=20
things.
It is as if life had freed itself and suddenly had =
interests
of=20
its
own, which did not correspond at all to Mirek's. This is how, =
I=20
believe,
life turns itself into destiny. Destiny has no intention =
of=20
lifting
a finger for Mirek (for his happiness, his security, his good =
spirits,=20
his
health), whereas Mirek is ready to do everything for his destiny =
(for
its=20
grandeur,
its clarity, its beauty, its style, its intelligible =
meaning). =20
He felt
responsible for his destiny, but his destiny did not feel =
responsible=20
for
him.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
face=3DLoosieScript></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
face=3DLoosieScript>His connection to his life was that of a =
sculptor=20
to his
statue or a novelist to a novel...."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript size=3D5>ciao,=20
sherri</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BD010D.E5569020--
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:03:34 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Gender of Nature...
MIME-Version:
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Haven't
been able to read the list much over the last several weeks and =
have a
bunch of unread stuff on my computer at work, because i kept =
forgetting
to put this list on digest. at any
rate, that's the reason =
for
this late post on this thread. and i
apologize if i'm repeating =
something
already said.
i don't
believe that any culture has ever ascribed the moon with =
masculine
attributes nor the sun with feminine.
it appears that the =
moon
has been tied to the feminine reproductive cycle since ancient =
times
and certainly in Native American culture the moon is known as =
Grandmother
Moon, Earth as Mother Earth, sky as Father Sky (which i =
think
may be synonymous with the sun, not certain though).
mi taku
oyasin, sherri
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HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META
content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><BASE=20
href=3D"file://C:\Program
Files\Common Files\Microsoft =
Shared\Stationery\">
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bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript size=3D5>Haven't been =
able to
read the=20
list
much over the last several weeks and have a bunch of unread stuff =
on
my=20
computer
at work, because i kept forgetting to put this list on =
digest.
at=20
any
rate, that's the reason for this late post on this thread. and =
i=20
apologize
if i'm repeating something already said.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript =
size=3D5></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript size=3D5>i don't believe =
that
any=20
culture
has ever ascribed the moon with masculine attributes nor the sun =
with=20
feminine.
it appears that the moon has been tied to the feminine=20
reproductive
cycle since ancient times and certainly in Native American =
culture=20
the
moon is known as Grandmother Moon, Earth as Mother Earth, sky as =
Father
Sky=20
(which
i think may be synonymous with the sun, not certain =
though).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript =
size=3D5></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript size=3D5>mi taku oyasin,=20
sherri</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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MnyNkjcm/DOPFwfiMn8sXYUJAAA7
------=_NextPart_000_007E_01BD0111.3A866540--
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 07:46:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: pop music and the beats.
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.OSF.3.91.971205001339.4060B-100000@turbo.kean.edu>
Mime-Version:
1.0
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Hey
Jack Kerouac
I think
of your mother and the tears she cried for none other
than
her little boy lost in our little world that hated and thay dared to
drag
him down...
Allen BabY
why so jaded have you boys all gone away and their music
faded...
These
are some of the lyrics that I can remember but im not sure how
accurate
it is...you can find the lyrics at the Int'l Lyrics Server on the
web...
On Fri,
5 Dec 1997, PoOka(the friendly ghost) wrote:
>
has anyone mentioned the 10,000 Maniacs song, "Hey Jack Kerouac" ?
This
> is
an obvious beat influenced song by Natale Merchant. I have seen a few
>
postings about rage against the machine. Can't say i like them personally
>
because after meeting with the lead singer and actually talking about
>
current issues of the time, i found him to be a sheer hypocrite. Back in
>
1993 during the Lollapalooza tour, rage was playing. At the spoken word
>
tent he was answering questions by the fans that decided to visit him in
>
the tent. When the singer, Zak, was asked if he would support free speech
> he
said, "of course." When asked if he would support Howard STern and
his
>
fight against the FCC, zak changed his tune and said, "No way man.
>
Howard is a racist." If memory serves correct, Zak was the same
"racist"
>
who insisted of only having native americans at some of his shows in the
>
mid west. Funny how some people try to play both sides of the fence.
>
> jason
>
>
ps. if anyone is looking for some music that isn't drenched in politics
>
like Rage, i suggest Jawbox. Very poetic and they even wrote a song based
> on
a william carlose williams poem.
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 07:47:37 -0500
Reply-To: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@is8.nyu.edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dylan Thomas
In-Reply-To: <199712050537.AAA20336@ionline.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I
thought Bob Dylan's real name was Robert Zimmerman...
On Fri,
5 Dec 1997, M. Cakebread wrote:
> At
04:10 PM 12/4/97 -0600, Amy Vokac wrote:
>
>
>In high school my theatre department did Under Milkwood.
>
>His languageis beautiful in it.
>
>
Bob Dylan a.k.a. Robert Milkwood Thomas
>
>
on:
>
>
Steve Goodman: Somebody Else's Troubles - 1973
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 07:48:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chelsea Hotel
In-Reply-To: <9a3afe83.3487956a@aol.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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Valerie
Salonas...check out I Shot Andy Warhol...
On Fri,
5 Dec 1997, Sad enigma wrote:
>
valori salanis(sp?) who wrote the scum
manifesto was there for awhile. so
>
was sid vicious and nancy spungeon, who died there. my 1 1/2 cents have a
>
nice night and a happy halloween
>
>
> chad
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:58:33 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: music
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
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patricia:
you have yet to be boring, and i absolutly cracked up reading
your
story, please keep them coming, you make wsb (your william) come
alive
in a way that is unique and wondrous.
mc
Patricia
Elliott wrote:
> I
am not a musical person but.
>
When i was house sitting for william (wsb) when he was in new york for
>
his 70 birthday, i got a phone call and . oh around 7, asking for
>
william's number in NY, i politely said, im sorry but i can't give out
>
where he is ( he was at the bunker getting ready to go to the party) ,
>
the man said he would like the address of the bunker or address of the
>
place of the party, again i demurred. we were at a stalemate, then i
>
offered to take his number and give it to william, the guy said yes,
>
yes, i'm frank zappa, well i did a double take, then said,(looking
>
hurriedly in williams rollodex, under frank, there he was. then quickly
>
gavin mr zappa the particulars. I heard
he sent literally dozens of
>
long stem red roses to the bar where the party was at. It was quite a
>
party. william brought me back the
neatest poster, it was a shadowy
>
siluette of him. signed by the artist and by william. I know that this
>
might not be "not boring" but i so seldom have a musical story. I
>
remember that when bob dylan played in kansas city, william went and
>
visited with him back stage. James g has group and i hear it is very
>
good, i haven't made it out to hear
him. as i have "married with
>
children" syndrome.
>
patricia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:11:11 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Life imatates death
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
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7bit
db:
don't know don't know but sure do know that at least the DARE cop did his
job.
no
drugs, but here's a handgun, kiddo....
mc
CIRCULATION
wrote:
> I
heard on the news tonight about the kid who went beserk in Kentucky with a
>
rifle and killed three of his classmates, & was supposedly influenced by a
scene
> in
the movie they made from Jim Carroll's BASKETBALL DIARIES. The scene
depicts
> a
kids fantasy of doing the same. killing all his classmates with a rifle.
>
>
Has anyone heard any comments from Jim Carroll about this? Damn, at least the
>
kids didn't start using drugs instead!
>
>
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:27:03 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Dylan Thomas
MIME-Version:
1.0
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x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
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flack.
no time to enumerate. but you get what you asked for:
flack.
mc
GTL1951
wrote:
>
Hey- as for poetry other than American- you have Thomas, Rilke, and Yeats-
>
anything else is a shallow imitation- wonder if I will get any flack on this?
> GT
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:41:14 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: DCardKJHS <DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Apologizing to Your Mouth
Comments:
To: Kindlesan@aol.com
Content-type:
text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding:
7bit
Perhaps
my response was a bit short...even curt, but I did NOT say that you
should
shut your mouth. I was pointing out
that even though Jack and Neal
were
not close personal friends of mine, I've been reading and studying them
for
about 35 years. Many list members are
in this canoe with me and most of
us
continue to paddle furiously. Many
feel that the movie did not present
the
guys we have come to know...If a public apology on the list is
necessary...say
the word and it shall be done...I have a tendency to respond
quickly
and sharply... I need to work on that...I often give offense where
none is
intended.
Dennis
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:51:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Re: Dylan Thomas
MIME-Version:
1.0
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Me too,
me too.
Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
flack. no time to enumerate. but you get what you asked for:
>
flack.
> mc
>
>
GTL1951 wrote:
>
>
> Hey- as for poetry other than American- you have Thomas, Rilke, and Yeats-
>
> anything else is a shallow imitation- wonder if I will get any flack on
this?
>
> GT
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 06:47:55 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Life imatates death
Marie,
what a perfect response!
<grinning> how are things,
girl? ciao,
sherri
-----Original
Message-----
From:
Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date:
Friday, December 05, 1997 6:14 AM
Subject:
Re: Life imatates death
>db:
don't know don't know but sure do know that at least the DARE cop did
his
>
job.
>no
drugs, but here's a handgun, kiddo....
>mc
>
>CIRCULATION
wrote:
>
>>
I heard on the news tonight about the kid who went beserk in Kentucky
with a
>>
rifle and killed three of his classmates, & was supposedly influenced by
a
>
scene
>>
in the movie they made from Jim Carroll's BASKETBALL DIARIES. The scene
>
depicts
>>
a kids fantasy of doing the same. killing all his classmates with a
rifle.
>>
>>
Has anyone heard any comments from Jim Carroll about this? Damn, at least
the
>>
kids didn't start using drugs instead!
>>
>>
Dave B.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:03:49 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Dylan Thomas
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
I have
looked for flack, but darn it , my husband seemed to need all i
had
last night , i find myself in the unusual postition of being low on
flack,
try me later.
patricia
R.
Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
> Me
too, me too.
>
>
Marie Countryman wrote:
>
>
> flack. no time to enumerate. but you get what you asked for:
>
> flack.
>
> mc
>
>
>
> GTL1951 wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hey- as for poetry other than American- you have Thomas, Rilke, and
Yeats-
>
> > anything else is a shallow imitation- wonder if I will get any flack
on
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:44:51 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: speaking of music
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
dylan's
new CD is not only musically beauteous, with his singing
absolutely
from the heart and his lyrics among his
finest poetry ever
written.
i
suggest it heartily - put it on yr christmas list, blow money you
would
have spent on something else,
but get
it.
listen.
it's
been years since i've been so enraptured by the man and his
writings,
and of course his music.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 07:12:32 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: apology
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007F_01BD014D.27D19C80"
This is
a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_007F_01BD014D.27D19C80
Content-Type:
text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable
using
new e-mail program, looked like i was responding backchannel to =
Marie,
sorry to have wasted bandwidth.
ciao,
sherri
------=_NextPart_000_007F_01BD014D.27D19C80
Content-Type:
text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE
HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META
content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META
content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript size=3D4><FONT =
size=3D5>using
new e-mail=20
program,
looked like i was responding backchannel to Marie, sorry to =
have
wasted=20
bandwidth.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript size=3D4><FONT=20
size=3D5></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript size=3D4><FONT =
size=3D5>ciao,=20
sherri</FONT></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_007F_01BD014D.27D19C80--
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:34:18 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: CIRCULATION
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chelsea Hotel
Chelsea
Clinton stayed at the Chelsea. So did Socks.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:04:35 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Chelsea Hotel
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
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CIRCULATION
wrote:
>
Chelsea Clinton stayed at the Chelsea. So did Socks.
wearing mrs nixon's cloth coat.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:26:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Chelsea Hotel
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
12:04 PM 12/5/97 +0000, Marie wrote:
>CIRCULATION
wrote:
>
>>
Chelsea Clinton stayed at the Chelsea. So did Socks.
>
> wearing mrs nixon's cloth coat.
and
Jackie K's leopard-skin pill-box hat
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:46:33 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RoadSide6 <RoadSide6@AOL.COM>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Life imitates diaries
Content-type:
text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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No word
yet from the Jim Carroll camp. However, more likely than not, any
information
available could be found at
http://home.forbin.com/~laverne/carroll/carroll.html,
a page run by one Cassie
Carter,
who seems to be in close contact with Carroll. As of today, there are
no
updates, but I've put in an email w/ Carter asking if there will be any
official
"release" by Carroll & co.
I'll post any info I receive < if, in
fact,
there is interest on the list.>
The
website is quite an accomplishment, by the way --- sound & video, an
unpublished
poem, performance schedules & reviews, rare photos, a bio, a
bibliography
and tons of links. Hope all fellow Carroll-admirers check it
out...
Take
care,
Starfishes
from Seattle
L. Deal
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:53:37 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: SOTD
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:50:56 -0500
from
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
I
expected more of a marathon reading as was the case with the OTR celebration.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:10:06 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: RoadSide6 <RoadSide6@AOL.COM>
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Subject: Re: elf abuse
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Speakin'
of elf abuse -- has anyone else checked out David Sedaris' amazing
short
story in his '95 book BARREL FEVER? Well, the story SantaLand Diaries is
a hoot
-- detailing the abuses of a Macy's Elf.... It'd put anyone in the Xmas
spirit...
Happy
Holidays...hehe
LD
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:48:05 +0100
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Michael McClure and Jim Morrison.
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Murat says:
>>
Jim Morrison Interview by Jerry Hopkins - Rolling Stone 26th jul 1969.?
>>
[]yes
>>
[]no
> [+] i dont know.
>
>
Yrs,
>
Murat.
*****************************
Murat e
tutti voi cari amici,
Jim
Morrison interviewed tell he was writing a screenplay
together
with Michael McClure on the basis of a unpublished
McClure's
novel. McClure typewrites directly the ideas when
they
are together. The plot of the movie is a story about
three
characters looking for a psychic treasure... one of
them called
Rourke is neo-capitalist devoted to the revolution...
both
are longhair hippies... and they took the airplane to Mexico
and
they meet a black kid called Derner. The trio ventured
out to
the desert in order to meet a border guard to pull
off a
robbery...
Jim
Morrison's as cinema student at UCLA was described by
Oliver
Stones' movie "The Doors" (1991)
an
italian remark sideway, Tito Schipa jr was the italian
translator
of Jim Morrison's lyrics and poems.
Tito
Schipa senior (Lecce 1889- New York 1965) was a famous
tenor
opera singer.
i hope
this help, and other friends can help you to further dig a
lot
mcclure and morrison connection,
The blue bus is calling us
The blue bus is calling us
Driver where you taking us?
saluti
da
Rinaldo.
_________
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:57:14 -0800
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From: tristan saldana
<hbeng175@EMAIL.CSUN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Michael McClure and Jim Morrison.
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<3.0.1.32.19971205224805.00b746dc@pop.gpnet.it>
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I saw
McClure and Manzarek at the LA County Museum of Art in October.
They
had a one-hour gig. McClure performed
his poetry and Manzarek did
the
interpreting with the piano. Manzarek
played "Riders on the Storm" to
one of
McClures pieces. It was quite
good. Manzarek and McClure said the
there
is an Egyptian belief that whenever you say a person's name that
you, in
effect, resurrect their spirit. They
closed with saying Jim's
name.
Tristan
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:02:19 -0500
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Re: speaking of music
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Marie:
I was
sitting here listening to TOOM and thinking about how good this work
is by
Bob Dylan. When I see your post. Listen
to the woman folks, she
knows
what she is talking about here. I love
it when he say, "People
asked
me about you, but I didn't tell them everything I knew!" "I'm gonna
find me
a janitor to sweep" Marie "off her feet."
Still a
Million miles from you, I am
Bentz
Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
dylan's new CD is not only musically beauteous, with his singing
>
absolutely from the heart and his
lyrics among his finest poetry ever
>
written.
> i
suggest it heartily - put it on yr christmas list, blow money you
>
would have spent on something else,
>
but get it.
>
listen.
>
it's been years since i've been so enraptured by the man and his
>
writings, and of course his music.
> mc
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:04:49 -0800
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From: Ryan White
<whitery@UCS.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: beat influence
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On Thu,
4 Dec 1997, Sara Brosnan wrote:
>
> As far as i know punk/rap/rock
band RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE got some
>
>
>
> influence from the beats: The Solist reads Allen Ginsberg poem America
>
>
>
> before each concert and in lyrics of song "Take The Power Back"
it
>
> says
>
> ">its the beats and lyrics they fear." But i am not very sure
if they
>
> are telling the same beats...
>
>
>
> (From the album Rage Against the Machine.)
>
>
>
>
I've been hearing a lot about RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE from various
>
sources. And I like the lyrics to
"Take the Power Back". Does
anyone
>
have any sugessitions of what album would be best to buy?
>
>
Sara
>
>
There
first, self-titled album is the best.
There second album, "Evil
Empire"
is also very, very good!
Buh-Bye!
Ryan
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:02:00 -0600
Reply-To: cawilkie@comic.net
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From: Cathy Wilkie
<cawilkie@COMIC.NET>
Subject: Re: the last time ....
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>
Ugh... a friend loaned me the movie after she had rented it and before she
>
had to take it back to the video store. I don't know whether it was the
>
offensive portrayal of Neal, or the lame portrayal of Allen,
I don't
remember a "portrayal of allen" in the movie.
did i
miss that part completely?
cathy
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:08:34 -0600
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From: Cathy Wilkie
<cawilkie@COMIC.NET>
Subject: Louis Ginsberg poem
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>
From:
> "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
>
>
>
beat-l'ers
>
just thought that some of you migt like to read this poem by Luois
>
Ginsberg, from his _Morning in Spring and other poems_
>
>
"To a mother, buried"
>
>
Naomi, when the world swam away,
>
and the windows grew blind,
>
were you thinking about who searched endless corridors
> of
sanitariums, hoping to find
>
His old lost love?
>
now with eart above
> do
you know that your lawyer son, Eugene,
>
often will start,
> at
the grief, shaking,
>
the dungeon of his heart?
> if
only you knew how
>
your poet son, Allen,
>
Raves over the world,
>
Crazed for the love of you.
>
I must
say, this is the first time i've read Louis' work. In just this
one
poem, you can see why Allen might have chosen poetry as his main
life's
work. Please share more of his poems,
and any info about louis'
books
would also be appreciated.
cathy
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:31:55 -0500
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From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: the last time ....
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At
09:02 PM 12/5/97 -0600, cathy wrote:
>I
don't remember a "portrayal of allen" in the movie.
>did
i miss that part completely?
I
believe he was in the football scene?
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:15:06 UT
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From: "Shani St.John"
<lawlaw1@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: the last time....
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Diane De Rooy
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 1997 9:02 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: the last time....
In a
message dated 97-12-04 02:16:31 EST, John wrote:
<<
has anyone else had the sad misfortune of seeing a film called "The last
time i committed suicide" >>
I don't
know whether it was the
offensive
portrayal of Neal, or the lame portrayal of Allen, or the stupid
jerky
camera affectations, or the contrived hipness of the soundtrack, but
itwas,
without exception, the most stupefyingly dumb <fill in the blank> I had
ever
rewound after 17 minutes.
diane
Hmmm....I
don't know, I didn't hate it. I think
the camera was present almost
as a
character in the film. It's like the
director was trying to imitate
Cassady's
frenetic movement visually. Overall, I
agree it did seem too . . .
slick?
If the homosexual male was a portrayal of A.G, it was way off . . . I
agree
with you there. But it seemed like
EVERYTHING about the film was kind
of
exaggerated...
(Ferlinghetti
basically said that the actor playing Neal looked too preppy and
clean-cut. I don't think the actor really looked
preppy at all; his style
seemed
very current(as far as "gen-x", GAP,etc.) But IMO the current styles
harken
back to the way they were dressing in the fifties.)
Anyway,
back to the exaggeration thing: was
there a purpose for it
sylistically(sp)?
I think the director was struggling to characterize a man
who
defied characterization. He was a
legend. I really think it is hard to
portray
someone like that honestly. Kerouac
faced the same issue in Visions
of
Cody. It was like he was twisting,
turning, telling, re-telling, making
false
starts, in his attempt to find TRUTH.
In the end he reached the same
conclusion
that the director(Steven kays?) did: How reliable is one man's
vision
of another man. The movie is flawed,
but necessarily so. Why did you
think
the portrayal of Cassady was offensive?
I think it was at least true to
his
letter . It was definitely true to
my(second-hand) visions of neal. He
lived
his life at lightening speed to avoid thinking about . . .the last time
he
committed suicide? It's like he was
living with all of these regrets about
a life
he may have considered mis-directed. In
order to survive, he had to
exist
two steps ahead. In the end, I guess,
he just get swept under by the
tide. The point is that I kind of like. . . dig
this movie! How's that for
contrived
hipness:)
O.K,
back to the point: I think the movie shows us the humanity of an amazing
(and
flawed) individual.
Sorry
to be so longwinded. I hope this
convoluted mess makes sense.
Good-night
all!
Shani
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:15:14 UT
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From: "Shani St.John" <lawlaw1@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: the last time....
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Diane De Rooy
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 1997 9:02 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: the last time....
In a
message dated 97-12-04 02:16:31 EST, John wrote:
<<
has anyone else had the sad misfortune of seeing a film called "The last
time i committed suicide" >>
Ugh...
a friend loaned me the movie after she had rented it and before she
had to
take it back to the video store. I don't know whether it was the
offensive
portrayal of Neal, or the lame portrayal of Allen, or the stupid
jerky
camera affectations, or the contrived hipness of the soundtrack, but it
was,
without exception, the most stupefyingly dumb <fill in the blank> I had
ever
rewound after 17 minutes. I simply could not watch it. And I can't think
of
another movie I've ever felt that way about.
diane
Hmmm....I
don't know, I didn't hate it. I think
the camera was present almost
as a
character in the film. It's like the
director was trying to imitate
Cassady's
frenetic movement visually. Overall, it
does seem somewhat . . .
slick?
If the homosexual male was a portrayal of A.G, it was way off . . . I
agree
with you there. But it seemed like
EVERYTHING about the film was kind
of
exaggerated...
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 01:22:23 EST
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From: GYENIS <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Just a little bad news
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For
people who didn't know, Micheal Hedges, guitarist extraordinaire, passed
on this
past week. He was a guitarist best known for being a Windham Hill
Records,
but really, his live shows (and I only saw two) were incredible. He
was one
of those pure whimsical souls that this planet just doen't have enough
of. He
was 43 and drove his car off the road in Calif, north of San Fran. He
does
have some great songs as well as great covers. I'm sad to say I only have
one
record by him and one Windham Hill compilation that includes him. I always
thought
that I would catch up to him (go see his shows) when I have a little
more
money. Now it won't help no matter how much money I have.
so it
goes, but go do your thing,
Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 04:45:16 -0500
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From: Glenn Cooper
<coopergw@MPX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: pop music and the beats.
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.OSF.3.91.971205001339.4060B-100000@turbo.kean.edu>
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aAt
00:19 05/12/97 -0500, you wrote:
>has
anyone mentioned the 10,000 Maniacs song, "Hey Jack Kerouac" ? This
>is
an obvious beat influenced song by Natale Merchant. I have seen a few
>postings
about rage against the machine. Can't say i like them personally
>because
after meeting with the lead singer and actually talking about
>current
issues of the time, i found him to be a sheer hypocrite. Back in
>1993
during the Lollapalooza tour, rage was playing. At the spoken word
>tent
he was answering questions by the fans that decided to visit him in
>the
tent. When the singer, Zak, was asked if he would support free speech
>he
said, "of course." When asked if he would support Howard STern and
his
>fight
against the FCC, zak changed his tune and said, "No way man.
>Howard
is a racist." If memory serves correct, Zak was the same
"racist"
>who
insisted of only having native americans at some of his shows in the
>mid
west. Funny how some people try to play both sides of the fence.
>
> jason
Steve
Earle has a song called "I'm The Other Kind" which has lyrics that
go:
"Before
you can say Jack Kerouac
Just
turn your back
And
I'll be gone"
Glenn
C.
---------------------------------------------------------
"Life
does not imitate art, it imitates bad television."
-- Woody
Allen
---------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:01:37 +0100
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: THE PINE by Dylan Thomas
In-Reply-To: <199712051726.MAA07800@ionline.net>
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THE PINE by Dylan Thomas (1929)
Virgate and sprung of the dusk,
The pine is the tree of the breeze,
And the winds that stream through the
ribboned light
And the motley winds from the seas.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 10:34:29 -0500
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From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Dylan Thomas
Comments:
To: Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@is8.nyu.edu>
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.OSF.3.95.971205074709.7055B-100000@is8.nyu.edu>
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On Fri,
5 Dec 1997, Nancy B Brodsky wrote:
> I
thought Bob Dylan's real name was Robert Zimmerman...
>
Yes,
Bob Dylan was born Robert Zimmerman.
When he moved to New York, and
started
playing clubs, he wanted a less semitic name and changed it to
Bob
Dillon (Dillon being his maternal grandfather's last name)
Supposedly,
right before he signed his first album contract, he changed
the
spelling to "Dylan" because people were always misspelling Dillon and
leaving
off one of the "i's" He
figured if people were going to spell it
Bob
"Dilon", it looked better with a "y" than an "i"
The
story that he changed his name in honor of Dylan Thomas was a total
myth
probably fabricated by the press.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 09:32:32 -0600
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Dylan Thomas
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Richard
Wallner wrote:
>
> On
Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Nancy B Brodsky wrote:
>
>
> I thought Bob Dylan's real name was Robert Zimmerman...
>
>
>
>
Yes, Bob Dylan was born Robert Zimmerman.
When he moved to New York, and
>
started playing clubs, he wanted a less semitic name and changed it to
>
Bob Dillon (Dillon being his maternal grandfather's last name)
>
Supposedly, right before he signed his first album contract, he changed
>
the spelling to "Dylan" because people were always misspelling Dillon
and
>
leaving off one of the "i's"
He figured if people were going to spell it
>
Bob "Dilon", it looked better with a "y" than an
"i"
>
>
The story that he changed his name in honor of Dylan Thomas was a total
>
myth probably fabricated by the press.
my
understanding was that the shift to Dillon came earlier perhaps after
his
journey to Denver but definitely still in the Dinkytown days. The
same
reason of a less semetic name at the University of Minnesota was
what
i'd heard. it is difficult to say, it
seems to me, what legends
about
"bob" are productions of the press and which are yarns he spun at
one
time or another merely to discard when the press began to think they
had him
"figured out".
i
recall about five years ago i was teaching a course on the rhetoric of
protest
music somewhere along the Mississippi and i sent off to a bunch
of
folks for more information (addresses which had accumulated over the
years
and never followed through on). . . . i wrote this kind of
formalish
note about teaching this course and looking for more
information
about bob dillon which might me useful in the course. i
received
a reply saying "it's D-Y-L-A-N you idiot!". I got a real kick
out of
that. Never did get around to filling the
fools in on the rest
of the
story.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:03:57 -0500
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From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Just a little bad news
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Didn't
know of Michael Hedges work Attila, but will chase the album down.
I'm a
big fan of Leo Kottke, Richard Thompson, Bert Jansch, Sandy Bull, John
Fahey
but hadn't heard Hedges. Is he like any of them in style?
Thanks for the tip and the tribute.
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"Blessed are they who can laugh at
themselves, for they shall never
cease
to be amused."
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:29:19 +0100
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: read kerouac
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http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~eddietwo/indeterminacy/names.html
http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~eddietwo/indeterminacy/s.cgi?174
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:32:48 -0500
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From: Carl A Biancucci <carl@WORLD.STD.COM>
Subject: Re: Chelsea Hotel
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.OSF.3.95.971205074814.7055C-100000@is8.nyu.edu> from
"Nancy
B Brodsky" at Dec 5, 97
07:48:37 am
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This
may sound like a silly question,but here goes anyways...
Have
any of you ever stayed at the Chelsea?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:42:04 +0000
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: speaking of music
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thanks
for your response, bentz: when most girls my age were choosing jr prom
dresses
and jr high pom pom squads, i was buying dylan 45s and listnenig to
al
kooper mike bloomfield, etc. i have yet to meet a woman who can listen to
music
the way my guy friends can. i know they are out there. it's just so
nice to
be able to talk music off or on list. btw, i am mad for dave
matthews,
for lyrics and great fusion instrumentals. when i tell most folks
that, i
have to duck the rotten vegggies.
"but
i'm tryin to get to heaven before they close the door" as dylan tells
us.
time is short. follow your bliss.
this
year i have lost everything and gained twice as much in spirtuality..
mc
R.
Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
Marie:
>
> I
was sitting here listening to TOOM and thinking about how good this work
> is
by Bob Dylan. When I see your post.
Listen to the woman folks, she
>
knows what she is talking about here. I
love it when he say, "People
>
asked me about you, but I didn't tell them everything I knew!" "I'm gonna
>
find me a janitor to sweep" Marie "off her feet."
>
>
Still a Million miles from you, I am
>
>
Bentz
>
Marie Countryman wrote:
>
>
> dylan's new CD is not only musically beauteous, with his singing
>
> absolutely from the heart and his
lyrics among his finest poetry ever
>
> written.
>
> i suggest it heartily - put it on yr christmas list, blow money you
>
> would have spent on something else,
>
> but get it.
>
> listen.
>
> it's been years since i've been so enraptured by the man and his
>
> writings, and of course his music.
>
> mc
>
> --
>
>
Peace,
>
>
Bentz
>
bocelts@scsn.net
>
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:24:12 EST
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From: Hpark4 <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
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Subject: Re: Chelsea Hotel
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I stayed
at the Chelsea once. The room was a
suite and it was economical (for
New
York City) because I was with four others.
I don't think its very
practical
to stay there if you're alone. The
location is good too - New York
really
has very few hotels near Grenwhich Village.
It's funky - its fun to
waunder
the halls. The lobby is great - lots of
interesting artwork. It sure
beats a
Holiday Inn!
Howard
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 10:31:41 -0800
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@email.msn.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri
<love_singing@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: speaking of music
ah
marie - you haven't listened to music with me!!! ciao, sherri
-----Original
Message-----
From:
Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date:
Saturday, December 06, 1997 9:54 AM
Subject:
Re: speaking of music
>thanks
for your response, bentz: when most girls my age were choosing jr
prom
>dresses
and jr high pom pom squads, i was buying dylan 45s and listnenig to
>al
kooper mike bloomfield, etc. i have yet to meet a woman who can listen
to
>music
the way my guy friends can. i know they are out there. it's just so
>nice
to be able to talk music off or on list. btw, i am mad for dave
>matthews,
for lyrics and great fusion instrumentals. when i tell most folks
>that,
i have to duck the rotten vegggies.
>"but
i'm tryin to get to heaven before they close the door" as dylan tells
>us.
time is short. follow your bliss.
>this
year i have lost everything and gained twice as much in spirtuality..
>mc
>
>R.
Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
>>
Marie:
>>
>>
I was sitting here listening to TOOM and thinking about how good this
work
>>
is by Bob Dylan. When I see your post.
Listen to the woman folks, she
>>
knows what she is talking about here. I
love it when he say, "People
>>
asked me about you, but I didn't tell them everything I knew!" "I'm
gonna
>>
find me a janitor to sweep" Marie "off her feet."
>>
>>
Still a Million miles from you, I am
>>
>>
Bentz
>>
Marie Countryman wrote:
>>
>>
> dylan's new CD is not only musically beauteous, with his singing
>>
> absolutely from the heart and his
lyrics among his finest poetry ever
>>
> written.
>>
> i suggest it heartily - put it on yr christmas list, blow money you
>>
> would have spent on something else,
>>
> but get it.
>>
> listen.
>>
> it's been years since i've been so enraptured by the man and his
>>
> writings, and of course his music.
>>
> mc
>>
>>
--
>>
>>
Peace,
>>
>>
Bentz
>>
bocelts@scsn.net
>>
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:06:26 -0500
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From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Dylan Thomas
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At
10:34 AM 12/6/97 -0500, Richard Wallner wrote:
>On
Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Nancy B Brodsky wrote:
>
>>
I thought Bob Dylan's real name was Robert Zimmerman...
>>
>
>Yes,
Bob Dylan was born Robert Zimmerman.
When he moved to New York, and
>started
playing clubs, he wanted a less semitic name and changed it to
>Bob
Dillon (Dillon being his maternal grandfather's last name)
>Supposedly,
right before he signed his first album contract, he changed
>the
spelling to "Dylan" because people were always misspelling Dillon and
>leaving
off one of the "i's" He
figured if people were going to spell it
>Bob
"Dilon", it looked better with a "y" than an "i"
>
>The
story that he changed his name in honor of Dylan Thomas was a total
>myth
probably fabricated by the press.
I was
refering to an alias, "Robert Milkwood Thomas,"
that
Dylan recorded under. Zimmerman is his
birth
name. I thought he took his name from Marshall
Matt
Dillon
from Gunsmoke. {;^> Just around the
time
he ran
away from home and was travelling with the
circus.
. .
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 20:10:41 +0000
Reply-To: caridade@mail.telepac.pt
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: caridade
<caridade@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>
Subject: Re: read kerouac
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Rinaldo
Rasa wrote:
>
>
http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~eddietwo/indeterminacy/names.html
>
http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~eddietwo/indeterminacy/s.cgi?174
Sorry
Rinaldo but don't you mean read John Cage?
That
texts is one of the indeterminacies written by Cage.
daniel
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:08:23 EST
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From: Hpark4 <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
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Subject: Re: speaking of music
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At the
risk of seeming bragadocious I had the privlige of seeing Mr. Bob Dylan
last
Thursday and Friday nights at the 9:30 Club in Washington, DC. It was a
real
treat to see Dylan at a "small" 1,000 person capacity club. It was fun
to see
the ol' sage having fun himself as he actually smiled several times.
He is
in great form these days - like always he looks to me like he could put
on 10
pounds or so - but he's a long, long way from knockin' on heavens door!
Each
night he played for a solid two hours - mixing old and new. Songs like
Maggies
Farm, Rainy Day Woman, Highway 61, Mr. Tamborine Man, It Ain't Me
Babe,
etc. are in heavy rotation on his set list (he does use one).
Bob
will be honored by President Clinton at the Kennedy Center tomorrow. I
think
it will be broadcast on public television sometime in the future (check
listings
under "The Kennedy Center Honors").
Howard
Park
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:16:58 -0500
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From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: speaking of music
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At
04:08 PM 12/6/97 EST, Howard Park wrote:
>Bob
will be honored by President Clinton at the
>Kennedy
Center tomorrow. I think it will be
>broadcast
on public television sometime in the future
>(check
listings under "The Kennedy Center Honors").
The
performance at the Kennedy Center will be recorded
by CBS
television and will be broadcast on December 26th
from
9PM to 11PM. I believe Dylan will not
be performing.
But his
award will be taped.
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:21:39 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chelsea Hotel
In-Reply-To: <89310064.3489984f@aol.com>
Mime-Version:
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A good
hotel is The Washington Square Hotel on Washington Place, right
near my
building. Attatched to it is the restaurant, C3, which is nice
place
to eat but not too expensive...
On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Hpark4 wrote:
> I
stayed at the Chelsea once. The room
was a suite and it was economical (for
>
New York City) because I was with four others.
I don't think its very
>
practical to stay there if you're alone.
The location is good too - New York
>
really has very few hotels near Grenwhich Village. It's funky - its fun to
>
waunder the halls. The lobby is great -
lots of interesting artwork. It sure
>
beats a Holiday Inn!
>
>
Howard
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:52:21 -0600
Reply-To: cawilkie@comic.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cathy Wilkie
<cawilkie@COMIC.NET>
Subject: LTICS "portrayal of
allen"??????
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>
Subject:
> Re: the last time ....
> Date:
> Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:31:55 -0500
> From:
> "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
>
>
> At
09:02 PM 12/5/97 -0600, cathy wrote:
>
>
>I don't remember a "portrayal of allen" in the movie.
>
>did i miss that part completely?
>
> I
believe he was in the football scene?
>
>
Mike
I'm
convinced thoroughly that I heard that character called by a
different
name. Did Cassady and ginsberg know
each other at the time of
the
composition of the "cherry mary" letter?????
If I
have to, i will rent the movie again just to ascertain whether that
was, or
was not, supposed to be allen.
cathy
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:53:44 EST
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>
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Subject: Re: read kerouac
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In a
message dated 97-12-06 12:09:28 EST, you write:
<<
http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~eddietwo/indeterminacy/names.html
http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~eddietwo/indeterminacy/s.cgi?174
>>
what
are these web pages?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 19:01:30 -0500
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Dylan
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Mike:
You
wrote:
>
Just around the time
> he
ran away from home and was travelling with the
>
circus. . .
>
I
thought he was traveling with a carnival down in Texas, working swap
meets. Then his ride broke down in Mobile. He had to hitch all the way
up
Highway 61 to get back home. And when
he was in Missouri, they
wouldn't
let him be. It seems that sometime
around then he tried the
North
Country but finally followed Woody to New York. Lived at the
Chelsea
Hotel, and down on Elizabeth Street,
maybe 4th for a while.
No, I
am positive about that. Anyway, last I
heard, he was playing a
show in
Miami!
Could
be the same Dillion that was in the Circus.
Could be. I heard he
was
spotted in Lowell once, with Dr. Sax in the band. But that was a
rumor. And it was probably planted in the
press. Rinaldo, have you
ever
seen him in Italy? I heard he traveled
there under the name of
Gray! With a widow. But, me I'm still on the road, headed for another
joint.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:36:04 -0600
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Dylan
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R.
Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
>
Mike:
>
>
You wrote:
>
>
> Just around the time
>
> he ran away from home and was travelling with the
>
> circus. .
but finally followed Woody to New York.
>
> Peace,
>
>
Bentz
>
bocelts@scsn.net
>
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
according
to newspaper reports, he went to new york to see woody the day
i was
born .... (not making that up <grin>)
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 20:13:13 -0500
Reply-To: "henkel@wmich.edu"
<henkel@wmich.edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Scott Henkel <henkel@WMICH.EDU>
Organization:
OVPR
Subject: Re: Kerouac and The Fifties
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Did
anyone see the piece on Jack on the History channel Friday night? I missed
it. Can you fill me in or wasn't it worth
watching?
Scott
-----Original
Message-----
From: Richard Miller [SMTP:richard@EMF.NET]
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 1997 8:50 PM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Kerouac and The Fifties
The
History Channel is doing a 7 hr special on The Fifties and on Friday
night
(12/5) they examine the impact of Jack Kerouac and Elvis Presley.So
far its
been pretty well done.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 23:02:59 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Just a little bad news
In-Reply-To: <762c3cb0.3488ef21@aol.com>
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He was
a New Age artist according to obits I read,
innovated
by playing guitar strings at the top of
the
kneck and the bottom at the same time.
Mike
Rice
At
01:22 AM 12/6/97 EST, you wrote:
>For
people who didn't know, Micheal Hedges, guitarist extraordinaire, passed
>on
this past week. He was a guitarist best known for being a Windham Hill
>Records,
but really, his live shows (and I only saw two) were incredible. He
>was
one of those pure whimsical souls that this planet just doen't have
enough
>of.
He was 43 and drove his car off the road in Calif, north of San Fran. He
>does
have some great songs as well as great covers. I'm sad to say I only
have
>one
record by him and one Windham Hill compilation that includes him. I
always
>thought
that I would catch up to him (go see his shows) when I have a little
>more
money. Now it won't help no matter how much money I have.
>
>so
it goes, but go do your thing,
>Attila
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 23:49:41 -0500
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From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Harry Smith article
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Jens,
A bit late I know, but thanks for
going to the trouble of putting
the
Folk Roots article about Harry Smith at your site. I've had the reissue
for
about ten days now after first spending a summer with the anthology in
1962 or
'63. Any of you who have followed up on Jens suggestion should.
Harry
Smith was among other things responsible for making many, many
recordings
of Ginsberg reading - lived with him for about a year. A truly
fascinating
multi-dimesional character. And the Anthology is wonderful
although
maybe not to everybody's taste....race and hillbilly recordings
from
the years 1927 to 1932 more or less.
Thanks Jens.
Antoine
Jens
Harry Smith article page.....
http://home1.inet.tele.dk/jenskoch/harry1.htm
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"Blessed are they who can laugh at
themselves, for they shall never
cease
to be amused."
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 23:00:16 -0600
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: hillbilly journals Re: Harry Smith article
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Antoine
Maloney wrote:
>
And the Anthology is wonderful
>
although maybe not to everybody's taste....race and hillbilly recordings
>
oh yeah
i remember making those recordings <grin>....funny this note
about
hillbilly recordings came to my computer just moments after i'd
accidentally
found an old journal notebook with my tales of driving deep
back
into my maternal roots in the hill country of Kentucky. Muses Mill
to be
exact. In my more psychotic moments
over the years the towns name
has
taken on meaning all out of proportion to sensibility. Listening to
an old
hillbilly singer right now singing mothers and fathers throughout
the
land don't criticize what you can't understand and i guess that goes
for
non-hillbilly's understanding those of us with some hillbilly genes
and
blood running through our systems. (do
you have hillbilly blood
Antoine?)
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 00:23:04 -0500
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From: Mike Rice
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Subject: test
Comments:
To: henkel@wmich.edu
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test
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 21:38:26 -0800
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: LTICS "portrayal of
allen"??????
Mime-Version:
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>>
Subject:
>> Re: the last time ....
>> Date:
>> Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:31:55 -0500
>> From:
>> "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
>>
>>
>>
At 09:02 PM 12/5/97 -0600, cathy wrote:
>>
>>
>I don't remember a "portrayal of allen" in the movie.
>>
>did i miss that part completely?
>>
>>
I believe he was in the football scene?
>>
>>
Mike
>
>
>
>I'm
convinced thoroughly that I heard that character called by a
>different
name. Did Cassady and ginsberg know
each other at the time of
>the
composition of the "cherry mary" letter?????
>
That
character (whatever the name was) was clearly based on Ginsberg. The
character
was not in the story in the book.
I think
this invented character is symptomatic of the problems of the movie
and
maoviemaker in general that made it a not so good movie (although I did
not
have the strong negative reaction against it others seem to have had--I
think
it was almost a good movie.)
Other
similar inventions are also symptomatic including the difference
where
in the movie near the end Cassady's friend comes out of the bar and
begs
him and cajoles Neal to go in and have a drink. This is quite
different
than in the book where cassady writes he walked by the bar and
saw his
friend inside and decided to go in and have a drink. No cajoling
in the
book.
etc...
>If
I have to, i will rent the movie again just to ascertain whether that
>was,
or was not, supposed to be allen.
>
>cathy
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 01:33:05 -0500
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From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: hillbilly journals Re: Harry Smith article
Mime-Version:
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do you
have hillbilly blood Antoine?
...asked
david rhaesa
Only in so far that there was/is a
strong Irish component in them
thar
hills! The music has a definite hold on me despite being a Brooklyn boy
living
in Quebec...I slipped under the spell of Doc Watson, the New Lost
City
Ramblers, Hazel Dickens swirled together with all early blues.
Gotta love anything on a fiddle,
dulcimer, autoharp, bo diddly or
slide
guitar!
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they
shall never
cease
to be amused."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 04:25:37 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: hillbilly journals Re: Harry Smith article
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At
11:00 PM 12/6/97 -0600, david rhaesa wrote:
>Listening
to an old hillbilly singer right now
>singing
mothers and fathers throughout
>the
land don't criticize what you can't understand
>and
i guess that goes for non-hillbilly's understanding
>those
of us with some hillbilly genes and blood running
>through
our systems.
Hmm,
4:15 am and too much Sleeman's Dark in me
(fell
off the wagon two wks ago at the Horseshoe).
Tool is
rifling off in the background (after Dr. Disc xmas
party). Are Tool hillbilly's? {;^> Kinda the same thing -
"Fuck
you buddy!!" A little cynical
tonight, not much
different
than the day, I guess. . .
Michel
Gateaupain
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 04:37:30 -0500
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From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Dylan
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At
07:01 PM 12/6/97 -0500, Bentz wrote:
>I
thought he was traveling with a carnival down in
>Texas,
working swap meets. Then his ride broke
down
>in
Mobile. He had to hitch all the way up
Highway 61
>to
get back home. And when he was in
Missouri, they
>wouldn't
let him be. It seems that sometime
around
>then
he tried the North Country but finally followed Woody
>to
New York. Lived at the Chelsea Hotel,
and down on
>Elizabeth
Street, maybe 4th for a while.
>No,
I am positive about that. Anyway, last
I heard, he was
>playing
a show in Miami!
>
>Could
be the same Dillion that was in the Circus.
Could
>be. I heard he was spotted in Lowell once, with
Dr. Sax
>in
the band. But that was a rumor. And it was probably
>planted
in the press. Rinaldo, have you ever
seen him
>in
Italy? I heard he traveled there under
the name of
>Gray! With a widow. But, me I'm still on the road, headed
>for
another joint.
Reminds
me of a personal ad I once saw:
"do
people tell you to your
face
youve changed? do you
feel
offended? are you seeking
companionship? are you plump?
4 ft.
5? if you fit & are
a full
blooded alcoholic
catholic,
please call
UH2-6969
ask for Oompa"
>From
_Tarantula_ by Bob Dylan
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 11:22:56 +0100
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Dylan
In-Reply-To: <3489E759.4DC97EB2@scsn.net>
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caro
Bentz, (good sunday) buona domenica!,
non so
se questo e' di aiuto a te (i dunno if this helps you)
e gli
amici (and to the friends) but the connection is (ma il
collegamento
e')
Zimmerman->Zimbo->Dillion->Dylan.
che Bob
Dylan abbia cambiato nome in onore di
Dylan
Thomas non sembra accertato (it seems that Bob Dylan don't
choose
his name as a tribute to english poet Dylan Thomas).
by the
good office of the catholic culture bob dylan 'll be
an icon
in the x-mas crib (cre'che), and it's not a bad news...
in the
early 70s' i tried to see the Wings in San Marco Square
but the
hugeness of people stop the trafic on the bridge...
in 1989
the Pink Floyd great performace... then the venice town
council
stopped the rock meeting in Venice cuz they scared
by the
electronic sound shattering the medieval monuments as
in a
futuristic/post-modernist/dream/nightmare...
p.s.
Bob Dylan says tha 'On the Road' "changed my life
like everyone else's"
cari
saluti (best wishes) da
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 06:55:27 -0500
Reply-To: blackj@bigmagic.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Al Aronowitz <blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>
Subject: Re: Dylan
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Rinaldo
Rasa wrote:
>
>
caro Bentz, (good sunday) buona domenica!,
>
>
non so se questo e' di aiuto a te (i dunno if this helps you)
> e
gli amici (and to the friends) but the connection is (ma il
>
collegamento e')
>
Zimmerman->Zimbo->Dillion->Dylan.
>
che Bob Dylan abbia cambiato nome in onore di
>
Dylan Thomas non sembra accertato (it seems that Bob Dylan don't
>
choose his name as a tribute to english poet Dylan Thomas).
>
> by
the good office of the catholic culture bob dylan 'll be
> an
icon in the x-mas crib (cre'che), and it's not a bad news...
>
> in
the early 70s' i tried to see the Wings in San Marco Square
>
but the hugeness of people stop the trafic on the bridge...
> in
1989 the Pink Floyd great performace... then the venice town
>
council stopped the rock meeting in Venice cuz they scared
> by
the electronic sound shattering the medieval monuments as
> in
a futuristic/post-modernist/dream/nightmare...
>
>
p.s. Bob Dylan says tha 'On the Road' "changed my life
> like everyone else's"
>
>
cari saluti (best wishes) da
>
>
Rinaldo.
CARO
RINALDO: Please, can you tell me what
is the source of that
statement:
"Bob Dylan says that OTR changed my life like everyone
else's." (To which I might also add Bob Dylan changed
MY life like
everyone
else's.) Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg,
the Beatles, Bob
Dylan! Quite a 1-2-3-4 punch! --Al Aronowitz
--
***************************************
Al
Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 06:57:34 +0000
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: speaking of music
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green
with envy but glad to hear he is as strong as his latest CD
last
time i saw him was as opener for grateful dead in Higate, vermont - with
hot
guitar
player jo jo jackson, i believe was the name. hot and heavy full metal
assault
on crowd of 100,000 or so --totally freaked out by massive crowd and
whisked
away in limo or helicopter or similar such exit. but excellent show.
1,000
folk two nights in a row, jealous jealous jealous
mc
Hpark4
wrote:
> At
the risk of seeming bragadocious I had the privlige of seeing Mr. Bob Dylan
>
last Thursday and Friday nights at the 9:30 Club in Washington, DC. It was a
>
real treat to see Dylan at a "small" 1,000 person capacity club. It was fun
> to
see the ol' sage having fun himself as he actually smiled several times.
> He
is in great form these days - like always he looks to me like he could put
> on
10 pounds or so - but he's a long, long way from knockin' on heavens door!
>
Each night he played for a solid two hours - mixing old and new. Songs like
>
Maggies Farm, Rainy Day Woman, Highway 61, Mr. Tamborine Man, It Ain't Me
>
Babe, etc. are in heavy rotation on his set list (he does use one).
>
>
Bob will be honored by President Clinton at the Kennedy Center tomorrow. I
>
think it will be broadcast on public television sometime in the future (check
>
listings under "The Kennedy Center Honors").
>
>
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 07:22:37 +0000
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: test
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you
passed!
Mike
Rice wrote:
>
test
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 08:17:40 EST
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From: GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Naropa Institute
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Hey- if
any members have an address or phone number for the Naropa Institute
out in
I belive Boulder,CO i would be most grateful. Been trying to track them
down.
Thanks
Gene
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 07:23:23 -0600
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Naropa Institute
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GTL1951
wrote:
>
>
Hey- if any members have an address or phone number for the Naropa Institute
> out
in I belive Boulder,CO i would be most grateful. Been trying to track them
>
down. Thanks
> Gene
its on
arapahoe in boulder. i found in by
doing a web search when i
wandered
through a few months back
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 07:32:55 -0600
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: hillbilly journals Re: Harry Smith article
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M.
Cakebread wrote:
>
> At
11:00 PM 12/6/97 -0600, david rhaesa wrote:
>
>
>Listening to an old hillbilly singer right now
>
>singing mothers and fathers throughout
>
>the land don't criticize what you can't understand
>
>and i guess that goes for non-hillbilly's understanding
>
>those of us with some hillbilly genes and blood running
>
>through our systems.
>
>
Hmm, 4:15 am and too much Sleeman's Dark in me
>
(fell off the wagon two wks ago at the Horseshoe).
>
Tool is rifling off in the background (after Dr. Disc xmas
>
party). Are Tool hillbilly's?
{;^> Kinda the same thing -
>
"Fuck you buddy!!" A little
cynical tonight, not much
>
different than the day, I guess. . .
>
>
Michel Gateaupain
cynical's
fine by me
someday
we'll compare wagon's and whatnot maybe
hillbilly's
anything ya want it to be really
wonderful
journey i had back into the hills those years ago
gonna
pack up my cynicism and head to the filling station
to see
what day it is and read a little
of Dr.
Sax.
I'm
playing the Count for halloween this January.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 12:54:51 -0500
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From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Dylan
In-Reply-To: <348A8EAE.7FAA@bigmagic.com>
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>Rinaldo
Rasa wrote:
>>
>>
p.s. Bob Dylan says tha 'On the Road' "changed my life
>> like everyone else's"
>>
>>
cari saluti (best wishes) da
>>
>>
Rinaldo.
>CARO
RINALDO:
>Please,
can you tell me what is the source of that
>statement:
"Bob Dylan says that OTR changed my life like everyone
>else's." (To which I might also add Bob Dylan changed
MY life like
>everyone
else's.) Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg,
the Beatles, Bob
>Dylan! Quite a 1-2-3-4 punch! --Al Aronowitz
>--
>***************************************
>Al
Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
>http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj
Al,
I can't
help you with your Q to Renaldol, but you should know that a fellow
(whose
name I did not get) was commenting on Bob Dylan on National Public
Radio
this Sunday morning and quoting from material you had written about
Dylan.
I have
my radio set to catch the early morning news block on NPR. I doze,
but
wake when something is said that rings a bell. Your name did. I caught
the
end, but not the name of the speaker. Unable to get through to NPR for
a name,
but I'll E-mail them and ask. Might get a reply.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
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625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 13:01:30 -0500
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From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Naropa Institute
In-Reply-To: <348AA34B.7825@midusa.net>
Mime-Version:
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>GTL1951
wrote:
>>
>>
Hey- if any members have an address or phone number for the Naropa Institute
>>
out in I belive Boulder,CO i would be most grateful. Been trying to
>>track
them
>>
down. Thanks
>> Gene
>
>its
on arapahoe in boulder. i found in by
doing a web search when i
>wandered
through a few months back
>
>david
rhaesa
>salina,
Kansas
David,
Wondering
about NAROPA and NEUROPA. Are you familiar
with both? Are they
similar
as far as curiculum is cponcerned?
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 13:35:16 -0500
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From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Chelsea Hotel
In-Reply-To: <199712061732.AA02754@world.std.com>
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>This
may sound like a silly question,but here goes anyways...
>
>Have
any of you ever stayed at the Chelsea?
Stayed
there in he mid 70s. Prices, if my memory serves me, were less than
$30.
Back then that was my limit for a room. Bit on the shabby side, but
cheap
and central.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 14:57:33 EST
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Naropa Institute
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In a
message dated 97-12-07 08:35:55 EST, you write:
<<
Hey- if any members have an address or phone number for the Naropa
Institute
out in I belive Boulder,CO i would be most
grateful. Been trying to track
them
down. Thanks
Gene
>>
Naropa
Institute
2130
Arapahoe Avenue
Boulder,
Colorado
08302-6697
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 14:57:36 -0500
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From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Naropa Institute
Mime-Version:
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At
08:17 AM 12/7/97 EST, Gene wrote:
>Hey-
if any members have an address or phone
>number
for the Naropa Institute out in I belive
>Boulder,CO
i would be most grateful. Been trying to
>track
them down. Thanks
Try:
http://www.naropa.edu/
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 15:22:24 EST
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From: Ddrooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Dylan
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In a
message dated 97-12-07 14:00:50 EST, jo grant wrote:
<<
I have my radio set to catch the early
morning news block on NPR. I doze,
but wake when something is said that rings a
bell. >>
I can't
help but find this curious, the fact that you listen to NPR,
considering
the fact that you have a most damning condemnation of their
coverage
of someone you support at your website.
I sure
wouldn't support a news source with my listenership if I found it so
repressive
and conspiratorial. I'd boycott 'em.
Maybe
this an example of yin and yang and I just don't get it?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 16:03:33 -0500
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From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: dylan
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"dear
tom
have i
ever told you that i
think
your name ought to be
bill. it doesn't really matter
of
course, but you know, i like
to be
comfortable around people.
how is
margy? or martha? or
whatever
the hell her name is?
listen:
when you arrive & you
hear
somebody yelling "willy" it'll
be me
that's who. . . so c'mon. there'll
be a
car and party waiting. it'll
be very
easy to single me out, so
dont
say you didnt know I was there.
gratefully
truman
peyote"
>from
_Tarantula_ by Bob Dylan
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 15:08:08 -0500
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From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Dylan
In-Reply-To: <b43319e2.348b0582@aol.com>
Mime-Version:
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>In
a message dated 97-12-07 14:00:50 EST, jo grant wrote:
>
><<
> I
have my radio set to catch the early morning news block on NPR. I doze,
>
but wake when something is said that rings a bell. >>
>
>I
can't help but find this curious, the fact that you listen to NPR,
>considering
the fact that you have a most damning condemnation of their
>coverage
of someone you support at your website.
>
>I
sure wouldn't support a news source with my listenership if I found it so
>repressive
and conspiratorial. I'd boycott 'em.
>
>Maybe
this an example of yin and yang and I just don't get it?
De
Rooy,
I think
you just don't get it.
I've
got serious problems with every network, most politicians, every
industry--auto,
power and light, food processors, etc. I think the whole
Xmas
thing is BS, but we have a tree, decorate, buy gifts for our children
and
friends.
I
REALLY have problems with NPR, but my defense against NPR, and all of the
above,
(who hid behind a multitude of masks) is not to become a Maginot
Line. I
don't like having the "news" stacked selectively. They all do it.
NPR
less than the rest.
Maybe I
don't get it either.
The
other day I approached a group of people demonstrating in front of a
store
that sold furs. I pointed out to them that I thought it odd they were
opposed
to people selling furs but were wearing leather shoes. One of them
said,
"There's a big difference between shoes and furs."
Like I
said, "Maybe I don't get it either."
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 16:16:10 -0600
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From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: dylan and art objext
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Ddrooy
wrote:
a news source with my listenership if I found
it so
>
repressive and conspiratorial. I'd boycott 'em.
>
>
Maybe this an example of yin and yang and I just don't get it?
hi
while
it is somewhat interesting to get such a example of tone in
language,
this may be one of the interesting but not exactly beat that
might
be backchanneled. Unless of course it isn't a question for the
individual
but a political stance. Sometime i
don't get politics as
immediately
as others. If you wish to explain any
thing political to me
on
this, please feel free to backchannel me.
I have been creating an art objext,
interpreting the mighty and strong
political
arguments that have gotten through to me.
Oh by the way my
web
page is going to become better, i hope. So two weeks obit on the
present
version.
http://www.sunflower.com/~pelliott/pictures.html
It is
now a crude rough layout of a scattering of photos. I plan to
change
it to scattered photos and scanned pages of the city moon, This
material
is copyrighted to Roger Martin and David Ohle.
I have so much enjoyed revisiting the
various websites that this list
has
bestowed on me. I just took a brief trip around the world. I truely
wish to
thank you all.
my
address ( for those servers who are not as easily accesssed)
pelliott@sunflower.com
p
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:51:12 EST
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From: GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
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AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Naropa Institute
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Thank
you very much!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 20:04:35 EST
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: CIRCULATION
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Harry Smith article
I got
to know Harry Smith fairly well when he was living with Allen G. In the
morning
I would sit at Allen's kitchen table and catalog his latest batch of
cassette
and video recordings. Sooner or later, Harry would stumble to the
table
and fix himself a bowl of cornflakes and eat them, the milk dribbling
down
his chin. He was slow to start but usually had some fascinating story
about
Charlie Parker or Thelonius Monk. I always wanted to take Harry's picture
but he
would never let me, claiming the camera would steal his soul.
getting
used to Harry's style of speach took sometime. He was slow to speak and
had
long lapeses. This was not helped by Julius Orlovsky, who was staying, I
think,
in Peter's apartment next door. Julius was speaking at the time, but
S-l-o-w-l-y,
and sometimes Harry and Julius would be in a silent battle trying
to
remember the same word at the same time.
I miss
Harry, he was a gentle, unassuming, soft spoken genuis.
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 22:18:12 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Back tt the Future II
Comments:
To: Hey Joe <hey-joe@gartholamew.com>, "jjw-l@io.com"
<jjw-l@io.com>,
Johnny Winter
<jwinter@sicel-home-2-19.urbanet.ch>
MIME-Version:
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Hey, is
there a Back to the Future fan out there who knows whether of
not
this is true. If so, it is weird. I mean, I know that I just got
through
watching the X-Files and all, but this is really different if it
is
true. Kinda cool idea, maybe urban
myth?
>
<< HEY PEOPLE, this is really interesting you must read on, as it is
true.
>
kinda makes ya go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
>
>
> If any of you remember the movie
"Back to the Future II" you
> will recall that Bif goes to the future
and steals a Sports Almanac, where
> in
> turn he
goes back to the past to give it to young Bif. As we all know
>
Young Bif
> was
able to become very wealthy by betting on games where he already knew
> the
final score.
>
> In an obscure line you hear young Bif say
"Florida is going to
> win the
World Series in 1997, yeah right"
>
> This movie came out in 1987, ten years
before the Marlins did
> actually
win the world series. And what's really weird is that Florida
>
didn't
> even have a baseball team in 1987.
>
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 21:31:13 -0600
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tyson Lynn Taylor
<tlt0004@JOVE.ACS.UNT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Back tt the Future II
Comments:
To: "jjw-l@io.com" <jjw-l@io.com>
Comments:
cc: Hey Joe <hey-joe@gartholamew.com>,
Johnny Winter
<jwinter@sicel-home-2-19.urbanet.ch>
In-Reply-To: <348B66F4.7FDD5749@scsn.net>
MIME-Version:
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On Sun,
7 Dec 1997, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
Hey, is there a Back to the Future fan out there who knows whether of
>
not this is true. If so, it is
weird. I mean, I know that I just got
>
through watching the X-Files and all, but this is really different if it
> is
true.
Well we
were just discussing this at work and one of the proffessors that
I work
for is a big Back to the Future Fan and confirmed that it was true
Makes
ya kinda wonder?
Tyson
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 20:11:54 -0800
Reply-To: MICHAEL_ROGERS@bc.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Rogers
<MICHAEL_ROGERS@BC.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Re: Back tt the Future II
Comments:
To: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@scsn.net>
Comments:
cc: Hey Joe <hey-joe@gartholamew.com>, "jjw-l@io.com"
<jjw-l@io.com>,
Johnny Winter
<jwinter@sicel-home-2-19.urbanet.ch>
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Kind of
makes the hair on the back of your neck stand on end.
Does
anyone know if Bif said anything about whether or not the Vancouver
Canucks
would win the Stanley cup in 1998.
Mike
http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/michael_rogers/
R.
Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
>
Hey, is there a Back to the Future fan out there who knows whether of
>
not this is true. If so, it is
weird. I mean, I know that I just got
>
through watching the X-Files and all, but this is really different if it
> is
true. Kinda cool idea, maybe urban
myth?
>
>
> << HEY PEOPLE, this is really interesting you must read on, as it is
true.
>
> kinda makes ya go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
>
>
>
>
>
> If any of you remember the movie
"Back to the Future II" you
>
> will recall that Bif goes to
the future and steals a Sports Almanac,
where
>
> in
>
> turn he goes back to the past to give it to young
Bif. As we all know
>
> Young Bif
>
> was able to become very wealthy by betting on games where he already
knew
>
> the final score.
>
>
>
> In an obscure line you hear
young Bif say "Florida is going to
>
> win the World Series in 1997, yeah right"
>
>
>
> This movie came out in 1987,
ten years before the Marlins did
>
> actually win the
world series. And what's really
weird is that
Florida
>
> didn't
>
> even have a baseball team in
1987.
>
>
>
> --
>
>
Peace,
>
>
Bentz
>
bocelts@scsn.net
>
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 01:07:52 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Harry Smith article
Mime-Version:
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Hi
Dave,
It was terrific to read your
description of sitting talking with
Harry
Smith. Wold he ahve known other of the Beats besides Ginsberg - and
even
Ginsberg himself - during the '40s and '50s given his involvement with
some of
the bebop players? Tell us some more
stories!
I'm listening to volume 1-b now....Furry
Lewis's great two part
Kassie
Jones (Casey Jones); Down on Penny's farm up next....precursor to
Dylan's
"Maggie's Farm" after lots of twists and turns.
Thanks Dave.
Antoine
>I
got to know Harry Smith fairly well when he was living with Allen G. In the
>morning
I would sit at Allen's kitchen table and catalog his latest batch of
>cassette
and video recordings. Sooner or later, Harry would stumble to the
>table
and fix himself a bowl of cornflakes and eat them, the milk dribbling
>down
his chin. He was slow to start but usually had some fascinating story
>about
Charlie Parker or Thelonius Monk. I always wanted to take Harry's picture
>but
he would never let me, claiming the camera would steal his soul.
>
>getting
used to Harry's style of speach took sometime. He was slow to speak and
>had
long lapeses. This was not helped by Julius Orlovsky, who was staying, I
>think,
in Peter's apartment next door. Julius was speaking at the time, but
>S-l-o-w-l-y,
and sometimes Harry and Julius would be in a silent battle trying
>to
remember the same word at the same time.
>
>I
miss Harry, he was a gentle, unassuming, soft spoken genuis.
>
>Dave
B.
>
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"Blessed are they who can laugh at
themselves, for they shall never
cease
to be amused."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 22:36:12 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Colin Hartridge
<colinh@WIMSEY.COM>
Subject: Re: Back to the Future II (no Jimi)
Comments:
To: MICHAEL_ROGERS@bc.sympatico.ca, "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@scsn.net>
Comments:
cc: Hey Joe <hey-joe@gartholamew.com>, "jjw-l@io.com"
<jjw-l@io.com>,
Johnny Winter
<jwinter@sicel-home-2-19.urbanet.ch>
In-Reply-To: <348B738A.3D4C@bc.sympatico.ca>
Mime-Version:
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At 8:11
PM -0800 12/7/97, Michael Rogers wrote:
>Does
anyone know if Bif said anything about whether or not the Vancouver
>Canucks
would win the Stanley cup in 1998.
Now
they've got Keenan as coach, anything's possible. Messy, eh? (in-joke
there)
Keep on
rockin',
Colin
NP:
MUTANT MONSTER BEACH PARTY -- "Do the Clam" / Hodge Podge Barrage
From
Japan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Colin
Hartridge (Captain Maniac) | Vancouver,
B.C. Canada
colinh@wimsey.com | "Past the outskirts of infinity"
_________________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 10:33:13 +0100
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: found a quote (was Re: Dylan)
In-Reply-To: <348A8EAE.7FAA@bigmagic.com>
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At
06.55 07/12/97 -0500, Al Aronowitz
wrote:
>CARO
RINALDO: Please, can you tell me what
is the source of that
>statement:
"Bob Dylan says that OTR changed my life like everyone
>else's." (To which I might also add Bob Dylan changed
MY life like
>everyone
else's.) Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg,
the Beatles, Bob
>Dylan! Quite a 1-2-3-4 punch! --Al Aronowitz
>--
>***************************************
>Al
Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
>http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj
>
caro
Al, buona giornata, (good day)
first
source:
i
remember the Dylan's OTR proposition was quoted by
poet
Ron Whitehead as a tribute to the 40th
anniversary
of Jack's masterpiece 1th printed.
by the
way
what
happened to Ron? why he do not come back
to
beat-L he left a year ago?
second
source:
Steve
Turner's book titled
"Angelheaded
Hipster. A life of Jack Kerouac"
have a
dedication to Bob Dylan (the quote on the
back of
summary page).
i hope
this help,
un caro
saluto a tutti,
Rinaldo.
*
"some real hot things in the Bible"--- jack kerouac *
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 09:17:10 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Brian Peterson
<peterson@EZNET.NET>
Subject: Re: Jim Morrison/beat influence
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In
Eduardo Lipschutz-Villa's book "Suppport the Revolution", dedicated
to the
work of Wallace Berman there is an interview with Michael
McClure.
In the interview Michael mentions that he advised Jim to
self-publish
his poems as he and Shelley had done and then to give them
to
friends to hear their reactions, as Berman had done. McClure believes
he must
have shown him some copies of Wallace's "Semina" because the
first
secret editions of his poetry, "The Lords" and "The New
Creatures"
where
published in such a way that they look like Wallace might have
done
them.
Brian
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 11:57:11 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Wallace Berman
Mime-Version:
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Brian,
Regarding the book "Support the
Revolution", could you tell me how
much of
it deals with Wallace Berman and his art and printing? Are you
reading
it or already read it?
Thanks very much.
Antoine
******************
Brian
Peterson wrote....
>In
Eduardo Lipschutz-Villa's book "Suppport the Revolution", dedicated
>to
the work of Wallace Berman there is an interview with Michael
>McClure.
In the interview Michael mentions that he advised Jim to
>self-publish
his poems as he and Shelley had done and then to give them
>to
friends to hear their reactions, as Berman had done. McClure believes
>he
must have shown him some copies of Wallace's "Semina" because the
>first
secret editions of his poetry, "The Lords" and "The New
Creatures"
>where
published in such a way that they look like Wallace might have
>done
them.
>Brian
>
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"Blessed are they who can laugh at
themselves, for they shall never
cease
to be amused."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 12:54:19 EST
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: CIRCULATION
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Harry Smith article
I
forgot to mention that Harry Smith is mentioned in the new Greil Marcus book,
INVISIBLE
REPUBLIC (I think that's the title). Though I have not read it, I
have
heard good things about it. BTW the book focuses mostly on Dylan and the
band,
it will really make you want to listen to the Basement Tapes again, or
for the
first time, depending (again, so I'm told).
I've
liked most of Marcus' other books though his writing style takes a little
getting
used to. Sorry if this has been brought up already, I sometimes lose
chunks
of my e-mail due to this wacky vax system at work which fritzs out
everytime
a squirrel jumps on the power lines.
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:33:23 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Brian Peterson
<peterson@EZNET.NET>
Subject: Re: Wallace Berman
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Antoine
,
The
book "Support the Revolution" deals entirely with Wallace and his
art-all
181 pages and approx. 200 illustrations. I picked up my copy at
The
Whitney Museum during the Beat Art Exhibition they had a few years
ago.
Yes, I've read it-several times, Wallace is one of my favorite
artists.
The book is published by the Institute of Contemporary
Art/Amsterdam.
Can't remember how much it cost-it doesn't say on the
jacket.
There are articles by David Meltzer, Walter Hopps, Charles
Brittin,
Christopher Knight, Wallys' son Tosh, and others.
Brian
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:50:42 -0500
Reply-To: blackj@bigmagic.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Al Aronowitz
<blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>
Subject: Re: Wallace Berman
MIME-Version:
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Brian
Peterson wrote:
>
>
Antoine ,
>
The book "Support the Revolution" deals entirely with Wallace and his
>
art-all 181 pages and approx. 200 illustrations. I picked up my copy at
>
The Whitney Museum during the Beat Art Exhibition they had a few years
> ago.
Yes, I've read it-several times, Wallace is one of my favorite
>
artists. The book is published by the Institute of Contemporary
>
Art/Amsterdam. Can't remember how much it cost-it doesn't say on the
>
jacket. There are articles by David Meltzer, Walter Hopps, Charles
>
Brittin, Christopher Knight, Wallys' son Tosh, and others.
>
Brian
Wally
Berman was a friend of mine. If I can't
buy a copy of the book
about
him which you refer to, can I obtain a photocopy? --Al Aronowitz
--
***************************************
Al
Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 14:07:37 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: Back tt the Future II
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>Well
we were just discussing this at work and one of the proffessors
>that
>I
work for is a big Back to the Future Fan and confirmed that it was
>true
>Makes
ya kinda wonder?
>Tyson
oh god! NO!!!! someone with my name!! i
though i was safe from
this....
i guess i'll have to make sure my i.d. is known in my
messages...
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 16:04:25 -0500
Reply-To: blackj@bigmagic.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Al Aronowitz
<blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat fad?
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Howard
Park wrote:
>
>
Fad in the 50's.
>
>
Trend in the 60's.
>
>
Old news in the 70's.
>
>
Rediscovered in the 80's.
>
>
Classic in the 90's.
>
>
"cannon" in the 00's?
>
> Howard
Park
How
about if they spelled it "canon?" --Al
--
***************************************
Al
Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 16:50:58 +0000
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: arugghhhh
MIME-Version:
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>
like being tongue-tied,
> no
thing to contribute.
>
> so
much to resend to
>
too little time
>
too many burnt syanpses
> at
least for today
>
>
marvels appear on my screen
>
pierce me to the heart,
>
heart demands anesthetic
>
wine qualifies
>
>
too much wine
>
too much beauty
>
too much angst
>
>
too much alone.
>
> would
rather take a dive into the now
>
freezing winoosi river
>
than admit the above
>
> in
'real life'
>
how can it be so possible
>
here,
>
>
perhaps,
>
because this is my
>
well lighted place
>
where monsters can roam
>
and others recongize
>
them for what the are:
>
name
>
catogorize
>
>
takes the sting
>
the fear away
> by
the simple
>
naming of the fears.
>
>
sorry all. it's a bad day
>
this is the best i could
> do
to explain the pit in
>
which i find myself.
>
>
brandon, you write yr own poem
>
for yr own love
>
that is what is most imp0rtant
>
about the wheel barrow in the rain.
>
>
that it is yours, has meaning, and
>
transcends the gap between
> me
and you
>
you and she
> us
and all humanity.
>
> mc
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 16:47:45 -0600
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: arugghhhh
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Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
>
> like being tongue-tied,
>
> no thing to contribute.
>
>
>
> so much to resend to
>
> too little time
>
> too many burnt syanpses
>
> at least for today
>
>
>
> marvels appear on my screen
>
> pierce me to the heart,
>
> heart demands anesthetic
>
> wine qualifies
>
>
>
> too much wine
>
> too much beauty
>
> too much angst
>
>
>
> too much alone.
>
>
>
> would rather take a dive into the now
>
> freezing winoosi river
>
> than admit the above
>
>
>
> in 'real life'
>
> how can it be so possible
>
> here,
>
>
>
> perhaps,
>
> because this is my
>
> well lighted place
>
> where monsters can roam
>
> and others recongize
>
> them for what the are:
>
> name
>
> catogorize
>
>
>
> takes the sting
>
> the fear away
>
> by the simple
>
> naming of the fears.
>
>
>
> sorry all. it's a bad day
>
> this is the best i could
>
> do to explain the pit in
>
> which i find myself.
>
>
>
> brandon, you write yr own poem
>
> for yr own love
>
> that is what is most imp0rtant
>
> about the wheel barrow in the rain.
>
>
>
> that it is yours, has meaning, and
>
> transcends the gap between
>
> me and you
>
> you and she
>
> us and all humanity.
>
>
>
> mc
so glad
to read the wonderful words that remind me everyone has days
like
that. hope yours ain't too deep a
drop. we'll all catch ya when
you're
falling.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:30:04 EST
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: M84M79 <M84M79@AOL.COM>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: long lost beat
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hello
friends,
just wanted to say hi and i'm back. i needed
some time off for reflection,
but i
missed you all so much. so, i decided to dive back in. a quick hello to
marie,
david, sherri, leon and all the rest. i'm happy to be back. can't wait
to hear
the latest threads. take care.
~~Marlene
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:00:32 -0800
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Laurie Hutchinson
<laurel555@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Japhy Rhyder
MIME-Version:
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I'd
like to hear some of your thoughts on Japhy Ryder (SP?) in the
Dharma
Bums. I've read zillions of reviews and
criticisms of
Kerouac's
"major" works, but I've never run across any discussion of
him. He's always been one of my
favorites...Laurel
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU
YAHOO!?
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your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:14:48 -0500
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From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Kaddish
In-Reply-To:
<19971208230032.1235.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com>
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Today,
I bought a very old copy of Kaddish from those guys that sell books
in
front of Bobst Library on Washington Square South. I was very happy but
also
bummed that I couldnt also buy Dharma Bums, which was also being sold
and
then I realized that I already have Dharma Bums, so I wasnt bummed
anymore!
:)
~Nancy
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:29:26 EST
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From: GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
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Subject: Re: Japhy Rhyder
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Hey-
what can you say about Gary Snyder(Japhy Ryder)? He is probably one of
the
most brilliant minds in a living being today.
GT
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:49:42 EST
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From: GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
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Subject: Re: Kaddish
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Nancy-
Kaddish is such an amazing poem. I cant believe I hated it when I first
tried
to read it at 17- read it two months ago and flipped!
GT
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:10:52 -0500
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From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kaddish
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Ive
never read the whole thing through before because its just too sad for
me, not
the actual poem itself but the thought of losing my mother, to
whom I
am extremely attached, makes me very very sad.
~Nancy
On Mon,
8 Dec 1997, GTL1951 wrote:
>
Nancy- Kaddish is such an amazing poem. I cant believe I hated it when I first
>
tried to read it at 17- read it two months ago and flipped!
> GT
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:20:05 -0500
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From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: Japhy Rhyder
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I'd
like to hear some of your thoughts on Japhy Ryder (SP?) in the
>Dharma
Bums. I've read zillions of reviews and
criticisms of
>Kerouac's
"major" works, but I've never run across any discussion of
>him. He's always been one of my
favorites...Laurel
hey jive cat, Japhy be Gary Snyder...
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:25:01 EST
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From: Sad enigma <Sadenigma@AOL.COM>
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Subject: Re: Jim Morrison/beat influence
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didn't
jim also say in an interview before he
believed in a long prolonged
absence
of the sences to reach the unknown (or somthing like that, my memory
isn't
too good at doing it's job) and didn't
ginsberg or lucien carr say
that
first?
chad
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:34:52 -0500
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From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: road advice SF
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>so
glad to read the wonderful words that remind me everyone has days
>like
that. hope yours ain't too deep a
drop. we'll all catch ya when
>you're
falling.
speaking of being caught while falling, I
think I've settled on
the
decision to abandon my current lifestyle which i am utterly sick of
and
take to the road out west, being a middle class college student is
no
place for me or my writing, and so i ask anyone on the west coast to
offer
any info they can on living in the bay area... any place in
particular
out there i should hit as soon as i arrive? i'm talking
survival
now, not tourism, if you can help me keep the beat alive and
real in
our time when everything is against it, offer your wisdom and
advice. it seems san francisco is a good place to
start. anyone wanna
join
me? Anyone live in SF that has great
firsthand knowledge of where
to live
cheaply? any help would be appreciated.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:04:36 -0800
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From: Maggie Gerrity
<u2ginsberg@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Kaddish
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After three months and one day of intense
research and long hours of
work,
I've finally finished my Allen Ginsberg anthology. Yahoo!!
Special
thanks to Levi Asher and Al Aronowitz for having such great
information
about AG on the web. Their sites were bookmarked and
referred
to quite often during my many hours of research.
I did some research about Kaddish for my
anthology, since my thesis
was
illustrating how Ginsberg was a robust lover, a wise teacher, and
an
inquisitive mortal questioning death 'round every turn. I learned a
lot
about the state of mind AG was in when he wrote Kaddish. He wrote
it in two
days straight, under the influence of amphetamine injections
and
morphine. He used the drugs so that he
could approach the whole
topic
from a more metaphysical point of view.
While Kaddish is not my favorite AG poem, I
do believe it is one of
the
greatest epic-length poems of this century.
During my research, I also came across a
great AG quote in a book
called
"Big Sky Mind: Buddhism and the Beat Generation" (ed. Carole
Tonkinson;
Riverhead Books, 1995-great book!), from a lecture called
"First
Thought, Best Thought," which he gave at Naropa Institute in
1974:
"So really you have to make a
resolution just to write for yourself,
in the
sense of no bullshit to impress others, not writing poetry to
impress
yourself, but just writing what your self is saying."
Ginsberg offers advice to budding writers
such as myself from beyond
the
grave...gives you something to think about.
Maggie
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU
YAHOO!?
Get
your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:35:21 -0600
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From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: road advice SF
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Tyson
Ouellette wrote:
>
>
>so glad to read the wonderful words that remind me everyone has days
>
>like that. hope yours ain't too
deep a drop. we'll all catch ya when
>
>you're falling.
>
> speaking of being caught while falling,
I think I've settled on
>
the decision to abandon my current lifestyle which i am utterly sick of
>
and take to the road out west, being a middle class college student is
> no
place for me or my writing, and so i ask anyone on the west coast to
>
offer any info they can on living in the bay area... any place in
>
particular out there i should hit as soon as i arrive? i'm talking
>
survival now, not tourism, if you can help me keep the beat alive and
>
real in our time when everything is against it, offer your wisdom and
>
advice. it seems san francisco is a
good place to start. anyone wanna
>
join me? Anyone live in SF that has
great firsthand knowledge of where
> to
live cheaply? any help would be
appreciated.
opportunities
to be in school are a mixture of time and space. soemtimes
it is
boring and tedious but my advice, stay in school, maybe take more
hours,
finish.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:55:19 +0800
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From: Yan Feng
<yfeng@PUBLIC1.TPT.TJ.CN>
Subject: Re: road advice SF
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----------
Tyson
Ouellette Wrote:
>
>
>so glad to read the wonderful words that remind me everyone has days
>
>like that. hope yours ain't too
deep a drop. we'll all catch ya when
>
>you're falling.
>
> speaking of being caught while falling,
I think I've settled on
>
the decision to abandon my current lifestyle which i am utterly sick of
>
and take to the road out west, being a middle class college student is
> no
place for me or my writing, and so i ask anyone on the west coast to
>
offer any info they can on living in the bay area... any place in
>
particular out there i should hit as soon as i arrive? i'm talking
>
survival now, not tourism, if you can help me keep the beat alive and
>
real in our time when everything is against it, offer your wisdom and
>
advice. it seems san francisco is a
good place to start. anyone wanna
>
join me? Anyone live in SF that has
great firsthand knowledge of where
> to
live cheaply? any help would be
appreciated.
>
Tyson,
I am in simliar state as yours. But I can't decide to abandon all.
We are
just so young that we stay in college.
We are
just too young to stay in college.
Good
luck to you.
Yan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 02:26:59 EST
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From: VegasDaddy <VegasDaddy@AOL.COM>
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Subject: Re: road advice SF
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Hey man
- Sounds like it's hit you, the great inevitable truth of being a
writer
(as I take it you are)...you aint gonna git no inspiration in school,
matter
of fact none of your great writing will be done in school (a-la Keats,
Shelley,
Steinbeck, even Kerouac). Take me, I
hit the books out in Palo Alto
CA but
born and raised in NYC, am a poet but had to drop school for three
months
to push the pen in any sort of a meaningful way. I'm goin back, but
I'm
damn glad I got away from the sonumbitch they call college for a while
anyway.
Go
West, bro, it rocks out there. Try the
Tenderloin for living
cheap...they'll
tell you it's dangerous but it's nothing to sweat, nothing too
terrible. Or try your hand at Berkeley, maybe sublet a
studio out there (hell
them's
my plans for the end of the month). I
managed to survive for four
months
in Berkeley with just a few dollars and a couple local friends, also
wrote
mad mouthfuls of poetry...the Bay Area is great for the artist.
And
maybe hit school again in a year, when you're twice the man and ten times
the
writer as anyone on campus.
Screw
the machine, don't think twice just head out there.
Immortal
goat,
ring
your good bell.
With
God's ear loaned
I
eavesdrop near.
Ring! bright crier,
the
Vast to hear.
Gregory
Corso, the Herald
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 02:32:19 EST
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From: VegasDaddy <VegasDaddy@AOL.COM>
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Subject: Re: Jim Morrison/beat influence
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I think
Rimbaud said that stuff about absence from the senses first.
AC
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 03:11:25 EST
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From: RoadSide6 <RoadSide6@AOL.COM>
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Subject: Re: Jim Morrison/beat influence
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In a
message dated 97-12-09 03:07:58 EST, you write:
<<
I think Rimbaud said that stuff about absence
from the senses first.
AC
>>
And I
do believe our man Arthur got his idea about "prolonged derangement of
the
senses" from one William Blake, if memory serves...
LD
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 04:39:33 EST
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From: GYENIS <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Take me to the Chelsea
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In a
message dated 97-12-07 00:08:35 EST, you write:
<<
Have any of you ever stayed at the Chelsea?
>>
Actually
I have, and I think it was around 150 bucks a night (I think it
depends
on whether they like you or not) but it was great. There is definitely
an
ambience there. I was there during one of the Kerouac events at New York
University,
so I felt a double thrill. It was neat going to listen to the
conference,
and then going back to the Chelsea to hang out. Its worth it just
to sit
in the lobby and watch the tide come in and out. The people at the
front
desk have been there along time and if inclined might tell you a story.
They do
have newspaper clipping on the wall that talks about the history as
well.
The neighborhood is interesting as well.
check
it out and enjoy,
Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 04:39:33 EST
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From: GYENIS <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Looking for articles on Kerouac for
DHARMA beat
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Hello,
DHARMA
beat, a Jack Kerouac newszine, is looking for articles about Kerouac
and
related. Next issue is due out in March. If you have an article that you
would
be of interest, please contact me with details
GYENIS@aol.com
To
review what was in previous issues, go to
<A
HREF="http://members.aol.com/kerouaczin/backissues.html">
http://members.aol.com/kerouaczin/backissues.html</A>
or
DHARMA beat's home page at
<A
HREF="http://members.aol.com/kerouaczin/dharmabeat.html">
http://members.aol.com/kerouaczin/dharmabeat.html</A>
or a
page of Kerouac and beat links at
<A
HREF="http://members.aol.com/kerouaczin/links.html">
http://members.aol.com/kerouaczin/links.html</A>
thanks
and enjoy, Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:20:48 +1000
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From: John Pullicino
<jjpull@PAC.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: zazu peels
In-Reply-To: <199712060331.WAA06318@ionline.net>
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'listen
to this bit..........' - jimi hendrix
while majordomos shine their caps)
rome
duskens statues yawn
withered
cats are at it
noiseless
between the bones
of
noseless martyrs
in
caves where vatsayana
out of
flashbulbs
holds
his scented breath ....
and madmen pardon sins)
eli
eli, william burroughs sleeps now
on the
cross between two wigless judges,
lama
sabacthani ? =
'S.P.Q.R.'
the minstrels sing
and
squeeze into his spine =
a full
syringe of vinegar =
'wave
to the grave while william bleeds,
nothing
goes round but rosary beads
and all
rogues need to roam'
minerva sets her velvet traps)
countrymen
i give you here =
three
sweet and painted ladies
the
women of the roman proverb
your
friends and mine let's hear it =
for the
bearers of the velvet thigh
and
soft machine =
Yiss
Yess Yass are come
to
weave the night into a thousand
tuneless
violins
and tunes her violins)
=A9jjpullicino
1997
-- =
bye for
now,
john p
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 10:09:56 -0500
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From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: road advice SF
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>Go
West, bro, it rocks out there. Try the
Tenderloin for living
>cheap...they'll
tell you it's dangerous but it's nothing to sweat,
>nothing
too
>terrible. Or try your hand at Berkeley, maybe sublet a
studio out
>there
(hell
>them's
my plans for the end of the month).
thanks, will look into that... also
noticed in my research that
lower
haight area is a cheap popular place for young folks..
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 10:19:43 -0500
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From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: road advice SF
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>Tyson,
I am in simliar state as yours. But I can't decide to abandon
>all.
>We
are just so young that we stay in college.
>We
are just too young to stay in college.
>Good
luck to you.
mmm, i agree.... i guess abandonment isn't
an issue for me because
i've
longed to do it for a while, escape my material possessions and
live
very simply for a while... only way to find out if it's right is
to try
it i guess. i was actually
contemplating the move about a year
and a
half ago... didn't happen. i think it's
largely due to the fact
that in
1997 we're predisposed to rooting ourselves in one place, that
security
and stability are the creed of modern life.
it kills me
really
when i talk to so many people that want to do this but don't,
that
are so unhappy following the path of the norm..i think it'll take
a
cultural change to instill many people with the confidence they need
to take
aternatives.. it's scary, thrilling and advnturesome, yes, but
scary
when all you've known is a stable life in the norm of society...
complacency
is really an epidemic among american
college-aged folks...
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 10:28:57 EST
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From: M84M79 <M84M79@AOL.COM>
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Subject: Re: road advice SF
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In a
message dated 97-12-09 01:30:00 EST, you write:
<<
Tyson, I am in simliar state as yours. But I can't decide to abandon all.
We are just so young that we stay in college.
We are just too young to stay in college.
Good luck to you.
Yan >>
tyson,
actually,
i'm in the same situation. i just dropped school for the semester. i
was
looking for some road trips. i'd love to come with you. but i'm torn, i do
agree
with patricia. you should be in school sometime. hell, so should i once
i get a
grasp on what the heck i'm doing with my life. trust me i know how you
feel.
as for writing, its all in the perspective. i think experience and
setting
are important, but its all how you look at it. i try to find something
new
everyday. its the only way i survive in my suburban town. good luck to
you,
man. i wish you the best.
~~marlene
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 11:05:07 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: The Beat Movement Was A Failure
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This is
the title of a column recently published in our school newspaper
here. If anyone needs to be made irrate, here is
the URL for it --
http://www.csil.appstate.edu/moron.htm. I'm the webmaster, so that's why
its
named moron, because the author is such an incredible one. By late
today,
it will have been moved to [http://www.csil.appstate.edu/
archives/97-12-04/moron.htm].
My
response to this (too long to be printed as a letter, so run as a guest
column)
will be printed today and be at [http://www.csil.appstate.edu/
beat.htm]
by later tonight.
Everyone
is welcome to reply to both. It doesn't
dignify taking up
bandwidth
by being posted. The paper's address is
at the bottom of each
page
(theapp@appstate.edu). I welcome
everyone to mail bomb to their
hearts
content. Its not a very good article,
even without its point of
view;
but still a slap in the face to some of the most influential writers
of this
century.
------------------
Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:28:30 -0800
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From: Eric Lytle <e.lytle@CED.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Re: road advice SF
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>
complacency is really an epidemic among
american college-aged
>
folks...
Complacency is an epidemic among american
folks. It only gets worse
after
college-age. That's probably why you
feel a bit alienated. Be
glad
that you're not among the complacent.
Be glad that you're in
america
where you don't have to be like everybody else.
I felt like jumping ship before
graduation, but stuck it out. It
did
change things a bit. Two years
later, I did the trip, the move,
no
friends, no job, and have fully enjoyed it. I feel that I was a
little
better prepared, but that's probably
just an excuse for my own
benefit. Either way,
things will work out in your favor,
if you want
them
too.
Good
Luck. Keep us posted, if possible.
-E
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 15:49:28 EST
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Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 15:07:52 -0500
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From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Kaddish
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<19971209040436.2495.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com>
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Maggie,
Is this
for publication? If so, go to http://www.bookzen.com and enter the
basic
information so I can get it on-line in our Free Book Information
Library.
Sounds
like a winner.
j grant
> After three months and one day of intense
research and long hours of
>work,
I've finally finished my Allen Ginsberg anthology. Yahoo!!
>Special
thanks to Levi Asher and Al Aronowitz for having such great
>information
about AG on the web. Their sites were bookmarked and
>referred
to quite often during my many hours of research.
> I did some research about Kaddish for my
anthology, since my thesis
>was
illustrating how Ginsberg was a robust lover, a wise teacher, and
>an
inquisitive mortal questioning death 'round every turn. I learned a
>lot
about the state of mind AG was in when he wrote Kaddish. He wrote
>it
in two days straight, under the influence of amphetamine injections
>and
morphine. He used the drugs so that he
could approach the whole
>topic
from a more metaphysical point of view.
> While Kaddish is not my favorite AG poem, I
do believe it is one of
>the
greatest epic-length poems of this century.
> During my research, I also came across a
great AG quote in a book
>called
"Big Sky Mind: Buddhism and the Beat Generation" (ed. Carole
>Tonkinson;
Riverhead Books, 1995-great book!), from a lecture called
>"First
Thought, Best Thought," which he gave at Naropa Institute in
>1974:
> "So really you have to make a
resolution just to write for yourself,
>in
the sense of no bullshit to impress others, not writing poetry to
>impress
yourself, but just writing what your self is saying."
> Ginsberg offers advice to budding writers
such as myself from beyond
>the
grave...gives you something to think about.
> Maggie
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>DO
YOU YAHOO!?
>Get
your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:07:32 EST
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From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Stone on Kerouac
Wonder
what others might think of Robert Stone's article on Kerouac in last Sun
day's
book review....no flames, please. After
all, this list prides itself on
reasoned
discourse.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:53:39 -0800
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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Stone on Kerouac
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At
04:07 PM 12/9/97 EST, you wrote:
>Wonder
what others might think of Robert Stone's article on Kerouac in last Sun
>day's
book review....no flames, please. After
all, this list prides itself on
>reasoned
discourse.
>
>
What
last sunday book review? The NY Times?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:01:30 -0500
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: road advice SF
Reply
to message from VegasDaddy@AOL.COM of Tue, 09 Dec
>
>Hey
man - Sounds like it's hit you, the great inevitable truth of being a
>writer
(as I take it you are)...you aint gonna git no inspiration in school,
>matter
of fact none of your great writing will be done in school (a-la Keats,
>Shelley,
Steinbeck, even Kerouac). Take me, I
hit the books out in Palo Alto
>CA
but born and raised in NYC, am a poet but had to drop school for three
>months
to push the pen in any sort of a meaningful way. I'm goin back, but
>I'm
damn glad I got away from the sonumbitch they call college for a while
>anyway.
Funny...I
think the best story I ever wrote was inspired by my college
years
(I have no other real opinions of it, though, because I don't know
what to
_do_ with it now...) If it hadn't been
for my college
surroundings
I wouldn't have found my inspiration.
God knows that cleaning
hotel
rooms isn't helping me any with my writing.
But
hey...to each their own. Good luck with
your decision--(I can't
remember
whose dilemma this was in the first place).
Diane.
--
"This
is Beat. Live your lives out? Naw, _love_ your lives out!"
--Jack
Kerouac
Diane
Marie Homza
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:08:48 EST
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From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Stone on Kerouac
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:53:39 -0800
from
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
On Tue,
9 Dec 1997 13:53:39 -0800 Timothy K. Gallaher said:
>At
04:07 PM 12/9/97 EST, you wrote:
>>Wonder
what others might think of Robert Stone's article on Kerouac in last
>Sun
>>day's
book review....no flames, please. After
all, this list prides itself on
>>reasoned
discourse.
>>
>>
>
>What
last sunday book review? The NY Times?
Yes, the New York Times.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 14:15:54 -0800
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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Stone on Kerouac
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At
05:08 PM 12/9/97 EST, you wrote:
>On
Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:53:39 -0800 Timothy K. Gallaher said:
>>At
04:07 PM 12/9/97 EST, you wrote:
>>>Wonder
what others might think of Robert Stone's article on Kerouac in last
>>Sun
>>>day's
book review....no flames, please. After
all, this list prides
itself
on
>>>reasoned
discourse.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>What
last sunday book review? The NY Times?
>
>
Yes, the New York Times.
>
>
Thanks
for replying so quick. I found it at
their site
url is
http://www.nytimes.com/books/97/12/07/reviews/971207.07stonet.html
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:27:27 -0500
Reply-To: blackj@bigmagic.com
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List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Al Aronowitz
<blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>
Subject: Re: Stone on Kerouac
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CTimothy
K. Gallaher wrote:
>
> At
05:08 PM 12/9/97 EST, you wrote:
>
>On Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:53:39 -0800 Timothy K. Gallaher said:
>
>>At 04:07 PM 12/9/97 EST, you wrote:
>
>>>Wonder what others might think of Robert Stone's article on Kerouac
in last
>
>>Sun
>
>>>day's book review....no flames, please. After all, this list prides
>
itself on
>
>>>reasoned discourse.
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>What last sunday book review?
The NY Times?
>
>
>
> Yes, the New York Times.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Thanks for replying so quick. I found
it at their site
>
>
url is http://www.nytimes.com/books/97/12/07/reviews/971207.07stonet.html
Can
somebody put it on list so I can read it? I gave away my book
section.--Al
--
***************************************
Al
Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 15:08:12 -0800
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From: Maggie Gerrity
<u2ginsberg@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Ginsberg Anthology
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Jo,
Thanks for your inquiry about my Ginsberg
anthology, but, for now,
at
least, it's just a massive project for my Honors Composition class.
My prof
has suggested that I seek publication, but right now I'm just
glad I
have the silly thing finished!!
Maggie
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU
YAHOO!?
Get
your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:28:31 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Stone on Kerouac
Comments:
To: blackj@bigmagic.com
In-Reply-To: <348DC5CF.7186@bigmagic.com>
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Al,
If you
extend the number of characters you'll avoid the long-short-long
lines.
Or, do as I do and doenload to a word doc.
Hope
you're well.
Was
unable to find the name of the person comenting on Dylan and mentioning
your
columns as source.
j grant
The
following is copyrighted by the nEW yORK tIMES. Bringing you "All the
news
that's pit to frint."
December 7, 1997
American Dreamers: Melville and
Kerouac
By ROBERT STONE
THE
BEAT GOES ON
A New
York Times retrospective on Jack Kerouac
In the autumn of 1957 I was 19
years old, in the Navy and also
more or
less permanently in
the grip of romantic adolescent
impulses. That year, I rashly
volunteered
to serve with the
last of the Byrd expeditions to
the Antarctic continent aboard
the
U.S.S. Arneb. The Arneb
would depart New England in
December for the bases Adm. Richard
E. Byrd
had established at
Little America on McMurdo Sound in
Antarctica. It would then
proceed
to circumnavigate the
globe, steaming outside the
shipping lanes and tracking solar
storms.
Byrd would not be coming with us.
He had died in February. But
the
operations were closely
associated with him and with his
schoolboy-hero mystique. The
last of
the explorers, he actually
''discovered'' places and named
them -- Marie Byrd Land, for
example,
and Mount Edsel Ford,
its overmastering peak. In the
tank towns and tenements from
which
the 50's Navy was
recruited, his career evoked the
essence of exotic adventure.
In the autumn of 1957 I was 19
years old, in the Navy and also
more or
less permanently in the
grip of romantic adolescent
impulses. That year, I rashly
volunteered
to serve with the last of the
Byrd expeditions to the Antarctic
continent aboard the U.S.S.
Arneb.
The Arneb would depart
New England in December for the
bases Adm. Richard E. Byrd had
established
at Little America
on McMurdo Sound in Antarctica. It
would then proceed to
circumnavigate
the globe, steaming
outside the shipping lanes and
tracking solar storms.
Byrd would not be coming with us.
He had died in February. But
the
operations were closely
associated with him and with his
schoolboy-hero mystique. The
last of
the explorers, he actually
''discovered'' places and named
them -- Marie Byrd Land, for
example,
and Mount Edsel Ford,
its overmastering peak. In the
tank towns and tenements from
which
the 50's Navy was
recruited, his career evoked the
essence of exotic adventure.
The journey would take almost a
year. After Thanksgiving, the
volunteer
crew began gathering
at the Seabee base in Davisville,
R.I. Among them were many
bookish
high-school dropouts like
me, along with protocomputer-nerd technicians attracted by
the
state-of-the-art
detecting devices
provided by the University of
Chicago to monitor cosmic rays.
Like the Pequod from Nantucket,
the Arneb departed the
ice-edged
New England shore at
Christmastime with its complement
of largely juvenile
adventurers.
''Yet now, federated along
one keel, what a set these
Isolatoes were,'' a 19th-century
American
novelist might have written
of us as well. They ''blindly plunged like fate into the lone
Atlantic!''
he might have said. In
other words, I had found the ideal
circumstances to read
''Moby-Dick,''
at just the right age.
I had a second novel along, one considerably
less bulky, that
my
mother had sent me. My mother
was a free but tormented spirit,
an ex-teacher who shuttled
between
single-room-occupancy
hotels and hospitals. She'd picked
it up somewhere, and thought
I'd
like to have a look at it. It
was by a young author, one I'd
never heard of. The author was
Jack
Kerouac and the novel was
''On the Road.''
I read the Melville first. Across
the southern ocean, far from
customary
skies, I would lie in my
rack each night with a pen
flashlight, a force 11-plus gale
screaming
above decks, listening to the
groaning of seams and the
squealing of lockers as the ship
rolled
to starboard, the lockers
creaking, creaking, creaking,
threatening to go over. At each
roll,
the ship favored its congenital
list, easing farther and farther
toward that soft starboard
side --
maybe herself capsizing -- while
my hair stood on end at Ahab's rant
when his first mate, the
godly
Quaker Starbuck, accuses him
of blasphemy for wanting to take
it all out on a dumb whale:
''All
visible objects, man, are but as
pasteboard masks. But in each
event -- in the living act, the
undoubted
deed -- there, some
unknown but still reasoning thing
puts forth the moldings of
its
features from behind the
unreasoning mask. . . .That
inscrutable thing is chiefly what I
hate;
and be the white whale agent
or be the white whale principal, I will wreak that hate upon
him.
Talk not to me of blasphemy,
man; I'd strike the sun if it
insulted me.''
Then I would look up into the dark
compartment, because we
really
had been listing to starboard
for the longest time and I had to
wonder if we ever would
right,
and then, slowly, the big tub
would find its level and begin to
creak back upright toward the
best it
could manage by way of
an even keel.
''Who's over me?'' the mad captain
demanded of his reasonable,
humane
No. 1. ''Truth hath no
confines.''
So during gunnery practice when I
found myself with frozen
fingers
clinging to the ladder of a
sight mounting at 53 degrees south latitude while the ship
fought
its way, decks awash, through
the swells -- I could compare my
condition to Tashtego's as he
lashed
down the Pequod's
main-topsail yard amid thunder and
lightning.
Then, somewhere between Montevideo
and the Carolina Capes, with
the
Pequod settled deep
beneath the Japan Ground, I picked
up Kerouac's novel. After
the
months of half-light, the
rolling ship and the blank horizon,
''On the Road'' floored me.
Aboard
the Arneb, life was a
trancelike state. Each day, by
design, was exactly like another
except
for the weather, the pattern
interrupted only by drunken
hallucinatory liberties in places,
with
people one would never see
again, prostitutes and land sharks
-- who receded into phantoms
of
alcoholic memory. Here in
this book with its primordially
American title, by a young man
with a
semipronounceable name,
was the World, the one I'd lost at sea while youth atrophied
and my
inner ear echoed with
Ahab's hassles with ''that unknown
but still reasoning thing.''
In
contrast, ''On the Road'' was the
narrative of someone I imagined as
not much older than myself
and so
like myself that -- he was
me! Me, and out occupying my
rightful place in the lost World,
experiencing
ever new towns,
new guilt-free sexual adventures,
the pleasures of wonderful
friends
and jazz and art and
bohemia.
I had a few bohemian pretensions
myself, you understand. I
could
rejoice in the knowledge that I
was certainly the only sailor
aboard the Arneb with a
girlfriend
at the High School of Music and
Art. But there was something else
about the narrator, Sal
Paradise,
that made me identify with
him, something in the sad
undertone of the novel that is
finally
its core. That narrator was
forever in search of American
authenticity and it was forever
somewhere
else. He, like me, came
from a place that seemed
distressingly inauthentic. For him as
for me,
the road to America
suggested a transcendent journey
toward an ineffable reality
that
was somehow our lost
birthright. The road to Opelousas,
the road to Ogallala, the
road to
Truckee. Hence we must
hasten, the book seemed to say in
that darker key, to find
ourselves
no more authentic, no more
at home. Because of its youthful enthusiasm, and my own, I was
not so
aware then of that
heartbreaking subtext in ''On the
Road.'' Of course its
components
would years later bring the
author, who brought so much wild
promise to so many, into the
nightmare
heart of his own
interior darkness.
When I'd finished the novel I
started passing it along to the
friends
I'd made on the voyage, the
underachievers and inept teen-age
car thieves and feckless
younger
brothers of heroes of the
recent war. And it turned out that
they too came from
hopelessly
inauthentic places, they too
dreamed of an infinity of willing,
largehearted, well-read
women
and parties and big-city action,
a world of jazz and girls and
reefer in which they would be
unwontedly
at home and welcome.
They too were looking for the road
and they too loved Kerouac's
novel.
So what dreams of high
times to come we projected on that
endless succession of
hateful,
gorgeous sunsets thanks to
Kerouac.
We could not know, as the author,
who was then 35, would have,
that in
the endless formula we
had already come to the Road, were
already on it, that many of
us
would come to look back on
our oceanic wanderings as the most
of freedom and authenticity
we
would ever know.
It never occurred to me, then or
since, that ''On the Road''
was a
great book. I had just finished
''Moby-Dick.'' For all the bright
fantasies it invited, there
was
really nothing much in ''On the
Road'' to ponder, to obsess over
and argue about in the grave
adolescent
atmosphere of our
nightly bull sessions. The book
had very little humor. On the
contrary,
it had an earnestness that
seemed a little much even to a
pack of wised-up rubes like
ourselves,
the crew of the Arneb.
Yet that earnestness never seemed
to bring the reader any
closer
to the touch of redemption
through insight that finally
justifies fiction. Its characters
were
thin and their relationship with
one another consisted of unvarying
admiration and affection.
Situations
where everybody is
smart, hip and beautiful are much
more satisfactory in life
than in
novels. It did not seem to
offer the shock of recognition of
the tragedy we all suspected
lay at
the core of things, which
even the sentimentality of Thomas
Wolfe, plainly Kerouac's
model,
provided. Even then, it
seemed that when the author
approached the layers of art or the
emptiness
of Buddha-hood there
was a naive posturing about the
writing that made it seem a
trifle
ignorant, a self-conscious
appropriation of high culture to
ultimately trivial purpose.
But of course we loved the
invocations of popular culture in
the
book, since they occupied so
much of our imaginations -- comic
strips, B movies, all that.
And it
was fun to think of George
Shearing as God, in whose guise he
briefly appears in ''On the
Road,''
although by 1957 and
1958 he had really stopped being
God and become a fairly
conventional
jazz pianist.
The overwhelming gratifying
element in ''On the Road'' for its
contemporary
readers was the
dream, the promise of life more
abundant available to the young
American
adventurer, the
intrepid traveler. Thirty or so
years before, ''The Sun Also
Rises''
had offered similar dreams,
though it made them appear more
difficult of access. ''The Sun
Also
Rises'' was a better book, of
course, and it seems wiser, though
that may be only because
Hemingway
was tougher and meaner
and more realistic about people
than Kerouac.
Years later, after our respective
periods working in Vietnam, I
had a
conversation with Michael
Herr, the author of the great war
memoir ''Dispatches.''
''There
are two kinds of things guys
like us do,'' Michael said to me.
''The things we do because we
read
Jack Kerouac and the things
we do because we read Hemingway.''
As it once promised the future,
''On the Road'' now evokes the
past,
pre-Interstate America, the
diners serving slabs of ice cream
and fresh pie, the simple
cowboys
singing songs of pretty girls
''sweet sixteen,'' the stars
growing larger as Sal Paradise's
ride
takes him out on the High Plains.
And if one thing works in a sound
writerly fashion in it,
that's
the portrayal of Neal Cassady.
The rendering of Cassady is so
vivid that for years, trying to
say nice
things about Kerouac's
novel, people who had read the
book and knew Cassady would
assure
one another of the
exactitude of that portrait.
Little did I suspect, out on the
ocean, that in fewer than 10
years
I, along with various other
marginal characters, would be
sharing an abandoned Purina
factory
on the Mexican coast with
the divine Cassady himself. By
then a muscled-up, Popeye the
Sailor-like
motormouth speed
loon, Cassady would be roaming the
place with his capsules and
a
hypodermic full of LSD,
eternally engaged in his private
project of slipping
psychedelics
into his fellow inmates' food or
drink.
When a number of us tried to elude
him by buying a piglet and
roasting
it, Cassady ambushed us
by injecting the squealing porker
in vivo with about 10,000
micrograms
of Owsley acid, upon
which I died some kind of literary
death to emerge in Book
Hell.
Book Hell is the place where
you are compelled to wander for
days, hour after garrulous
hour,
utterly whacked out, in the
company of larger-than-life
characters you once thought
charming
from pretty good novels you
once sort of enjoyed, while they
tell you absolutely everything
else
about themselves.
And little did I suspect that a
major critic of the period,
Gerald
Nicosia, would decades later
write:
''Both trail and superhighway, 'On
the Road' led from
'Moby-Dick'
. . . into the 21st century --
from outer to inner space. Ahab in
'Moby-Dick' searched for the
purveyors
of cosmic evil. . . .
By contrast, the heroes of 'On the
Road,' Dean Moriarty (Neal)
and Sal
Paradise (Jack), no
matter how far they travel in the
external world, are
ceaselessly
penetrating deeper into their
own souls. They are constantly
aware that their travel, by the
excitement
and curiosity it
generates, is a means to understanding themselves. Travel to
them is
a conscious philosophical
method by which they test the
store of hand-me-down truisms.
Moreover,
as a potent imaginative
symbol, travel is a philosopher's
stone that turns every
experience
into a spiritual lesson.''
I wish I could agree. This is an
excerpt from ''On the Road,''
a
section so typical the publishers
of this year's 40th-anniversary
edition (Viking, $24.95) have
reproduced
it on the back cover:
''So in America when the sun goes
down and I sit on the old
broken-down
river pier watching
the long, long skies over New
Jersey and sense all that raw
land
that rolls in one unbelievable
huge bulge over to the West Coast, and all that road going,
all
the
people dreaming in the
immensity of it, and in Iowa I
know by now the children must be
crying
in the land where they
let children cry, and tonight the
stars'll be out, and don't
you
know that God is Pooh Bear? the
evening star must be drooping and
shedding her sparkler dims on
the
prairie, which is just
before the coming of complete
night that blesses the earth,
darkens
all rivers, cups the peaks and
folds the final shore in, and
nobody, nobody knows what's going
to
happen to anybody besides
the forlorn rags of growing old, I
think of Dean Moriarty, I
even
think of Old Dean Moriarty
the father we never found, I think
of Dean Moriarty.''
Let's say that the reader must
provide a good half of the
genuine
sentiment here from his own or
other sources. And the same, I
think, is true throughout ''Some
of the
Dharma'' (Viking,
$32.95), a previously unpublished
collection of Kerouac's
Buddhist
musings put out to mark the
occasion of the anniversary of
''On the Road.'' But let us,
Kerouac's
survivors, remember how
much the work from which all this
comes moved so many young
people,
and also remember how
cruel, how brutal and heartless
most of the mainstream media
were to
Jack Kerouac and his
work during his lifetime. How in
ridiculing his unarmored,
vulnerable
prose they broke his too
tender heart and helped destroy
him.
People once said that Jack
Kerouac's name would be remembered
when
those of his
contemporaries are forgotten. They
may well be right, and for
filial
and patriotic reasons I say
let it be so. But, on the whole, I
think ''On the Road'' was
more
Mom's kind of book than mine.
--30--
<i>Robert Stone, Rosencrantz
Writer in Residence at Yale
University,
is the author, most recently,
of ''Bear and His Daughter.'' His
new novel, ''Damascus Gate,''
will be
published in the spring.</i>
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:35:48 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg Anthology
In-Reply-To: <19971209230812.20989.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com>
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>Jo,
> Thanks for your inquiry about my Ginsberg
anthology, but, for now,
>at
least, it's just a massive project for my Honors Composition class.
>My
prof has suggested that I seek publication, but right now I'm just
>glad
I have the silly thing finished!!
> Maggie
Maggie,
Just
wondering. Should I designed a form so a person, like yourself, with a
finished
writing project and probably considerable research, can enter the
details
of the paper in case a publisher is interested? In case a fellow
writer
wants to ask questions? In case a reporter, working on a story,
might
want to talk to you?
what do
you think?
jo