HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES

                             Details  on-line at

                                 http://www.bookzen.com

                      625,506 Visitors  07-01-96 to 11-28-97

 

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:45:41 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Stone on Kerouac

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

I have a couple of things to say about the Stone on Kerouac article.

 

Stone writes about On the Road, "...yet that earnestness never seemed to

bring the reader any closer to the touch of redemption..."

 

What is clear to me in reading Kerouac and it was even present early on

in OTR, is that there is NO redemption for the characters or for the

reader.  And it's a false expectation to believe that there should be a

"happy everafter" ending to the book or to life itself.  Perhaps Kerouac

was, in fact, searching for redemption but he never found it, or if he

found it, he didn't accept it.  Part of that is perhaps the fact that he

failed to find anything in the American dream that "authenticated" his

existence.

 

Stone also wrote "...when the author approached the layers of art or the

emptiness of Buddha-hood there was a naive posturing about the writing

that made it seem ignorant."

 

I fail to see any posturing in Kerouac or ignorance in his writing.

Perhaps what Stone percieves as being naive is Kerouac's sensitivity, and

maybe there is a problem with being too-sensitive, that you are not

hardened enough to accept all that life throws at you.  But it seems to

me Kerouac was pretty intelligent and I wonder if what Stone is objecting

to is what he perceives as sentimentality, which we have discussed here

before.  But I fully agree with the quoted passage from Gerald Nicosia

about Kerouac's spiritual search and I love the passage which ends OTR. I

think that Stone is reading it as being a kind of dreamy-eyed innocence

when in fact it evokes a never-ending search for something that is not

being found and all of those "people dreaming in the immensity of it"

don't have a clue if they will find what they are dreaming about, but

they continue to dream just the same because they are continually

confronted with "the forlorn rags of growing old."

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 21:25:08 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: The Beat Movement Was A Failure

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

>My response to this (too long to be printed as a letter, so run as a

>guest

>column) will be printed today and be at [http://www.csil.appstate.edu/

>beat.htm] by later tonight.

 

     read your response, guy, mad cool! props to you for a a

knowledgable counter-attack that blew an uninformed piece of maggot

dung ouyt of the water... suggest all to check it out, but read the

original first, it's a riot to read what this "beats failed" guy said.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 18:48:21 -0800

Reply-To:     Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: Stone on Kerouac

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Hello Diane,

 

As usual I am enthralled with your sure handed elucidations that show me the

value of scholarship based upon a compassionate heart and vast intelligence.

I am a bit uneasy though about the seeking of personal authentication in

national dreams. It seems to me that dreams of a nation are to improve the

culture, the soil, the environment, in which human life might  flourish, but

not to seek personal authentication through it. Being an american, or

twentieth century person anywhere can provide some degree of  cultural

identification, but perhaps never a personal one.

 

I think that Kerouac was too inelligent too seek a personal identification

or authentication through any national dreams to begin with.

 

Happy holiday season everybody

 

leon

sage-----

From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Tuesday, December 09, 1997 5:20 PM

Subject: Re: Stone on Kerouac

 

 

>I have a couple of things to say about the Stone on Kerouac article.

>

>Stone writes about On the Road, "...yet that earnestness never seemed to

>bring the reader any closer to the touch of redemption..."

>

>What is clear to me in reading Kerouac and it was even present early on

>in OTR, is that there is NO redemption for the characters or for the

>reader.  And it's a false expectation to believe that there should be a

>"happy everafter" ending to the book or to life itself.  Perhaps Kerouac

>was, in fact, searching for redemption but he never found it, or if he

>found it, he didn't accept it.  Part of that is perhaps the fact that he

>failed to find anything in the American dream that "authenticated" his

>existence.

>

>Stone also wrote "...when the author approached the layers of art or the

>emptiness of Buddha-hood there was a naive posturing about the writing

>that made it seem ignorant."

>

>I fail to see any posturing in Kerouac or ignorance in his writing.

>Perhaps what Stone percieves as being naive is Kerouac's sensitivity, and

>maybe there is a problem with being too-sensitive, that you are not

>hardened enough to accept all that life throws at you.  But it seems to

>me Kerouac was pretty intelligent and I wonder if what Stone is objecting

>to is what he perceives as sentimentality, which we have discussed here

>before.  But I fully agree with the quoted passage from Gerald Nicosia

>about Kerouac's spiritual search and I love the passage which ends OTR. I

>think that Stone is reading it as being a kind of dreamy-eyed innocence

>when in fact it evokes a never-ending search for something that is not

>being found and all of those "people dreaming in the immensity of it"

>don't have a clue if they will find what they are dreaming about, but

>they continue to dream just the same because they are continually

>confronted with "the forlorn rags of growing old."

>DC

>.-

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 21:59:18 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: road advice SF

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

>actually, i'm in the same situation. i just dropped school for the

>semester. i

>was looking for some road trips. i'd love to come with you. but i'm

>torn, i do

>agree with patricia. you should be in school sometime. hell, so should

>i once

>i get a grasp on what the heck i'm doing with my life. trust me i know

>how you

>feel. good luck to

>you, man. i wish you the best.

>~~marlene

 

     well thank you... i never cease to be amazed and enthralled at the

number of people who feel the same way...  it also helps to clarify for

me what directions my writing and efforts in general have to go in... a

new beat spirit is what we need now more than ever, maybe even more

than the 50's....  what a freaking mess we live in, eh?

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 23:19:17 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         DCardKJHS <DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: The Beat Movement Was A Failure

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

Alex Howard deserves a healthy hail of pats on the back and a unison shout of

"Well done!"  I lift my glass with respect and appreciation.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 23:03:32 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUNET.YU>

Subject:      Re: road advice SF

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

...as for myself, i live in serbia. we've just had a third round of

presidential elections, while the fourth is coming up in two weeks.

needless to say, to choose between the candidates is equal to choosing

between death by hanging or drowning. as i was walking to work yesterday

(as city transportation is in the state of collapse, and the faces you

see there may easily ruin your day), listening to the electoral results

on my walkman, feeling cheated and humiliated, i was reading kerouac as

well. book of dreams. there, i found a sentence "as i say, words, images

& dreams are fingers of false imagination  pointing at the reality of

holy emptiness - but my words are still many & my images stretch to the

holy void like a road that has an end - it's the ROAD OF THE HOLY VOID

this writing, this life, this image of regrets--"

 

i don't know. maybe it wasn't the sentence. but for a second a had this

feeling that all the discussions on why he drank and whether he was

unhappy etc. don't make any sense. that buddhism speaks the truth: this

is not real. we are in fact all beautiful and perfectly happy. he was

perfectly happy. and all the horror within and outside us is an

illusion.

including politics. needless to say, all the despair was gone.

 

 

somehow, this experience i had connects with your message.

 

don't know if it makes sense.

 

that's all.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 00:48:58 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Stone on Kerouac

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Diane Carter wrote:

> Part of that is perhaps the fact that he

> failed to find anything in the American dream that "authenticated" his

> existence.

> DC

 

It seems that any attempt to authenticate is intrinsically inauthentic.

The trying to be authentic separates from the authenticity sought.  i'm

not far enough into the whole Jack story (almost done with Big Sur right

now) to see if this relates to his quandries - but it might.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

 

"there's no success like failure and failure's no success at all." bob

dylan

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 02:12:07 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         VegasDaddy <VegasDaddy@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: road advice SF

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

In a message dated 97-12-09 11:28:20 EST, you write:

 

<< complacency is really an epidemic among  american college-aged folks.. >>

 

 

And it is the blackest of Plague-Deaths, ubiquitous, super-epidemic, among

americans once they get out of college...sadly enough, seems that college is

often the peak of non-complacency...pathetic the condition of the people...

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 02:19:45 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         VegasDaddy <VegasDaddy@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Jim Morrison/beat influence

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

In a message dated 97-12-09 03:12:25 EST, you write:

 

<< And I do believe our man Arthur got his idea about "prolonged derangement

of

 the senses" from one William Blake, if memory serves.. >>

 

 

Ahh yes, _Marriage of Heaven and Hell_, no?

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 01:39:44 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: road advice SF

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

VegasDaddy wrote:

>

> In a message dated 97-12-09 11:28:20 EST, you write:

>

> << complacency is really an epidemic among  american college-aged folks.. >>

>

> And it is the blackest of Plague-Deaths, ubiquitous, super-epidemic, among

> americans once they get out of college...sadly enough, seems that college is

> often the peak of non-complacency...pathetic the condition of the people...

 

some of the people ain't so bad...in and out of college i've found

pretty good folks and if they're plagued and it's contagious than the

complacency is at least nothing life threatening.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 04:16:49 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: road advice SF

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

just think of the Barney generation of carnage through mediocrity.

auuuggghhhhh!

mc

 

VegasDaddy wrote:

 

> In a message dated 97-12-09 11:28:20 EST, you write:

>

> << complacency is really an epidemic among  american college-aged folks.. >>

>

> And it is the blackest of Plague-Deaths, ubiquitous, super-epidemic, among

> americans once they get out of college...sadly enough, seems that college is

> often the peak of non-complacency...pathetic the condition of the people...

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 07:41:40 -0500

Reply-To:     blackj@bigmagic.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Al Aronowitz <blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>

Subject:      Re: The Beat Movement Was A Failure

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

DCardKJHS wrote:

>

> Alex Howard deserves a healthy hail of pats on the back and a unison shout of

> "Well done!"  I lift my glass with respect and appreciation.

What did Alex Howard say to deserve such acclaim? --Al Aronowitz

--

***************************************

Al Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST

http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:12:56 -0500

Reply-To:     "henkel@wmich.edu" <henkel@wmich.edu>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Scott Henkel <henkel@WMICH.EDU>

Organization: OVPR

Subject:      Re: The Beat Movement Was A Failure

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

Alex, job well done. Way to use the journalistic system of checks and balances.

 

-----Original Message-----

From:   DCardKJHS [SMTP:DCardKJHS@AOL.COM]

Sent:   Tuesday, December 09, 1997 11:19 PM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Re: The Beat Movement Was A Failure

 

Alex Howard deserves a healthy hail of pats on the back and a unison shout of

"Well done!"  I lift my glass with respect and appreciation.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:53:44 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Beat Movement Was A Failure

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

It seems to me that the author of this article was championing the Beat

Generation, except for that little "flower power" bit. Maybe Im just

misunderstanding what everyone's reacting to but whats wrong with the

article?

~Nancy

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:17:41 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         M84M79 <M84M79@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: road advice SF

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

In a message dated 97-12-10 06:51:37 EST, you write:

 

<< just think of the Barney generation of carnage through mediocrity.

 auuuggghhhhh!

 mc >>

 

scary thought

~~marlene

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:12:00 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: Stone on Kerouac

In-Reply-To:  Message of Wed, 10 Dec 1997 00:48:58 -0600 from <race@MIDUSA.NET>

 

I'm not sure I'm going to put this very well but I agree with Diane.

Kerouac, it seems to me, did seek to become part of, and to capture in

his art, the vast spirit of the American dream as Wolfe and Fitzgerald

and others did before him.  I agree with Diane wholeheartedly that he

never found the redemption that he was looking for and maybe the

impossibility of achieving such redemption is a truth readers discover

through his work.   How does one discover or authenticate himself,

except by measuring himself against a larger idea or tradition --

national identity, religion etc.  In the end, one's search for self may

end in a rejection of such big ideas as divisive and counterproductive

but the search, it seems to me, has to involve a struggle with such

ideas nonetheless.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 11:34:26 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         M84M79 <M84M79@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      truly beat?

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

dear listees,

i just finished reading "the beat movemnet was a failure" and alex's response.

first of all, well done alex. he deserves a standing o. second of all,

something in the article got me thinking. Sam (i believe that was his name)

stated something like, "to be truly beat..." as if there was a formula on the

lifestyle and he knew what it was. this angered me. i don't even know where to

begin to find a definition (other than this list) on "being beat." can any of

you  give me a clue as to what "truly beat" is? i've considered the

impossibility of answering this, but i'd like to get some feedback anyway.

~~Marlene

 

oh, and to alex: i have a friend who was recently accepted to appalachian

state.i was thinking of looking into the school myself. i just want to know

how you like it. perhaps you could e-mail me privately. i'd appreciate it.

M84M79@aol.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:42:13 -0800

Reply-To:     Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: truly beat?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

If someone asked me if I am beat, I would tell them to beat it.

 

leon

-----Original Message-----

From: M84M79 <M84M79@AOL.COM>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Wednesday, December 10, 1997 8:36 AM

Subject: truly beat?

 

 

>dear listees,

>i just finished reading "the beat movemnet was a failure" and alex's

response.

>first of all, well done alex. he deserves a standing o. second of all,

>something in the article got me thinking. Sam (i believe that was his name)

>stated something like, "to be truly beat..." as if there was a formula on

the

>lifestyle and he knew what it was. this angered me. i don't even know where

to

>begin to find a definition (other than this list) on "being beat." can any

of

>you  give me a clue as to what "truly beat" is? i've considered the

>impossibility of answering this, but i'd like to get some feedback anyway.

>~~Marlene

>

>oh, and to alex: i have a friend who was recently accepted to appalachian

>state.i was thinking of looking into the school myself. i just want to know

>how you like it. perhaps you could e-mail me privately. i'd appreciate it.

>M84M79@aol.com

>.-

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:49:11 -0800

Reply-To:     Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: truly beat?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Beat is a word that hides/covers a multitude of sins and virtues, mostly

sins though, kinda beats around the bush, leaves lots to the imagination of

the beholder

 

leon

-----Original Message-----

From: M84M79 <M84M79@AOL.COM>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Wednesday, December 10, 1997 8:36 AM

Subject: truly beat?

 

 

>dear listees,

>i just finished reading "the beat movemnet was a failure" and alex's

response.

>first of all, well done alex. he deserves a standing o. second of all,

>something in the article got me thinking. Sam (i believe that was his name)

>stated something like, "to be truly beat..." as if there was a formula on

the

>lifestyle and he knew what it was. this angered me. i don't even know where

to

>begin to find a definition (other than this list) on "being beat." can any

of

>you  give me a clue as to what "truly beat" is? i've considered the

>impossibility of answering this, but i'd like to get some feedback anyway.

>~~Marlene

>

>oh, and to alex: i have a friend who was recently accepted to appalachian

>state.i was thinking of looking into the school myself. i just want to know

>how you like it. perhaps you could e-mail me privately. i'd appreciate it.

>M84M79@aol.com

>.-

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:15:02 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: road advice SF

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

>i don't know. maybe it wasn't the sentence. but for a second a had this

>feeling that all the discussions on why he drank and whether he was

>unhappy etc. don't make any sense. that buddhism speaks the truth: this

>is not real. we are in fact all beautiful and perfectly happy. he was

>perfectly happy. and all the horror within and outside us is an

>illusion.

>somehow, this experience i had connects with your message.

>don't know if it makes sense.

 

     makes absolutely perfect sense... you've essentially stated my

demeanor and general outlook on life.. i've found it to be very

healthy,  the more you give yourself over to it the less stress you

have... the biggest obstacle, one which Jack certainly dealt with, is

overcoming the desire for "more" for prestige, for attaining the

societorial pie in the sky, elevated position, fame... something

brought about by deeming one kind of living as lesser than others... to

overcome it is to realize the pointlessness and at the same time

transcend it to a state of daily bliss.  to do what brings you

happiness regardless of environmental circumstances, imposed or

otherwise. if you want to "change the world" change yourself 3 degrees

and you'll find everything around you does a complete 180 and you see

things in a whole new light.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:17:39 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: Beat Movement Was A Failure

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

>It seems to me that the author of this article was championing the Beat

>Generation, except for that little "flower power" bit. Maybe Im just

>misunderstanding what everyone's reacting to but whats wrong with the

>article?

 

     i agree... on the whole it's nothing negative... a bit confusing

if anything, how much he says he reveled in it, then ends by saying it

was more his mother's type of book...

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:25:17 -0500

Reply-To:     blackj@bigmagic.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Al Aronowitz <blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>

Subject:      Re: Beat Movement Was A Failure

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Nancy B Brodsky wrote:

>

> It seems to me that the author of this article was championing the Beat

> Generation, except for that little "flower power" bit. Maybe Im just

> misunderstanding what everyone's reacting to but whats wrong with the

> article?

> ~Nancy

> The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

> Sure-JK

Can somebody post a copy of "BEAT MOVEMENT WAS A FAILURE" so I can see

what all the fuss is about.  I read Stone's piece and don't think it

fits that headline, "BEAT MOVEMENT WAS A FAILURE."  Are you people

talking about some other piece? --Al Aronowitz

--

***************************************

Al Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST

http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:33:39 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Pinocchio.

In-Reply-To:  <3489E759.4DC97EB2@scsn.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

        morning

        empty row

 

        villas

        green

 

        green

        hedges

 

        barking

        dogs

 

        BEWARE THE DOG

        day to day

 

        barking

        barking

 

        maybe

        a day

 

        they 'll

        stop it

 

        thinking

        me friend

 

---

Rinaldo

10th dec 98

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:48:52 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Pinocchio.

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

rinald, are you meaning more than the name of the walt disney fable

animation?

duh,

mc

 

Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

 

>         morning

>         empty row

>

>         villas

>         green

>

>         green

>         hedges

>

>         barking

>         dogs

>

>         BEWARE THE DOG

>         day to day

>

>         barking

>         barking

>

>         maybe

>         a day

>

>         they 'll

>         stop it

>

>         thinking

>         me friend

>

> ---

> Rinaldo

> 10th dec 98

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 13:07:06 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Beat Movement Was A Failure

Comments: To: Al Aronowitz <blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>

In-Reply-To:  <348ED07C.7406@bigmagic.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Al et al-

 Yes, exactly. The title didnt seem to fit...glad to see that Im not the

only confused one here...

~Nancy

On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Al Aronowitz wrote:

 

> Nancy B Brodsky wrote:

> >

> > It seems to me that the author of this article was championing the Beat

> > Generation, except for that little "flower power" bit. Maybe Im just

> > misunderstanding what everyone's reacting to but whats wrong with the

> > article?

> > ~Nancy

> > The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

> > Sure-JK

> Can somebody post a copy of "BEAT MOVEMENT WAS A FAILURE" so I can see

> what all the fuss is about.  I read Stone's piece and don't think it

> fits that headline, "BEAT MOVEMENT WAS A FAILURE."  Are you people

> talking about some other piece? --Al Aronowitz

> --

> ***************************************

> Al Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST

> http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 13:09:47 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Flower Power

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Correct me if Im wrong but beat was pre-flower power, right?...Otherwise,

after having read the article again, it still seems like the author is in

admiration of the Beat Generation...

~Nancy

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:18:41 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Stone on Kerouac

In-Reply-To:  <BEAT-L%1997121010240673@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

 B. G.,

May I add your comments about Stone's article "American Dreamers: Melville

and Kerouac" in Sunday's N.Y.Times to the document that has been reprinted

on BookZen's Free Book Information Library?

 

Thanks.

jo grant

 

By the way Bill, what is the protocal about reprinting comments made on the

list? When I read something that would provide insights to a book or

article that is on BookZen, I'd like to share it with the librarians who

browse BookZen regularly. Is there a problem?

 

 

 

 

 

 

>I'm not sure I'm going to put this very well but I agree with Diane.

>Kerouac, it seems to me, did seek to become part of, and to capture in

>his art, the vast spirit of the American dream as Wolfe and Fitzgerald

>and others did before him.  I agree with Diane wholeheartedly that he

>never found the redemption that he was looking for and maybe the

>impossibility of achieving such redemption is a truth readers discover

>through his work.   How does one discover or authenticate himself,

>except by measuring himself against a larger idea or tradition --

>national identity, religion etc.  In the end, one's search for self may

>end in a rejection of such big ideas as divisive and counterproductive

>but the search, it seems to me, has to involve a struggle with such

>ideas nonetheless.

 

 

                    HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES

                             Details  on-line at

                                 http://www.bookzen.com

                      625,506 Visitors  07-01-96 to 11-28-97

 

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:25:52 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: Beat Movement Was A Failure

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

I thought the article was trying to say, (not to clearly) that of the

two books, that otr did not stand up, that it was interesting in

pushing  certain current (at the time of his perry without the perry

trip) buttons but wasn't really there over time.  I might be confused

but it was one of those damning with slight praise things.

patricia

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 11:48:19 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>

Organization: Calgary Free-Net

Subject:      second beat mag?

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

hey beat-l'ers

does any one know if the latest issue of Second Beat (the wsburroughs

tribute issue as far as i know) has been released or

how i can get in touch with the publishers (Camelia City books)?

thanks

derek

 

******************************************************************

Derek Beaulieu

House Press (limited ed. chapbooks, prints, etc)

#502-728 3rd Ave NW

Calgary, Alberta, Canada, T2N 0J1

ph. (403)270-4440, fax. 270-9357

"remove literary, grammatical & syntactical inhibition" -Jack Kerouac

******************************************************************

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:23:10 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "PoOka(the friendly ghost)" <jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>

Subject:      leaving the list.

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

hey folks,

        sorry to bug everyone about this but i am having trouble getting

off of the beat list. I'm going away for quite some time and i won't be

able to answer any mail. Can someone refer me to a higher power so i can

unsubscribe? thanks.

                                                jason

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:04:07 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         todd edmondson <tcedmonds0@MCNET.MILLIGAN.EDU>

Subject:      redemption

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

i think a couple of you have said some very interesting things about

kerouac's search for redemption.  i think if he was searching for

redemption in the authentication of national dreams, he was on the wrong

path completely.  true redemption, as has been my own experience, comes not

in the form of anything that we on earth can truly identify with, such as

"the american dream" or anything like that, but in something far more

spiritual than that which the eye has seen.  kerouac and other beats seemed

to look for redemption in the religions of the east, but those are just

that--religions created by man.  in order to be redeemed as a writer or a

human being, it is imperative that we find something far more spiritual

than that.  i believe with all my heart that i have found that redemption

in Christianity--not the Christianity that is found in many churches today,

where people are condemned without compassion and judged as if man were

God.  that sort of thought found much opposition in the "beat movement",

and understandably so.  the christianity i embrace does have an absolute

system of right and wrong, but realizes that man, despite vain attempts to

attain moralistic perfection, is hopelessly lost within his own existence.

only the grace and mercy of a truly benevolent God can save man from his

situation--not a god of laws but a God of love for all men.  i understand

that this is an unpopular position, and i don't mean to be overly agressive

with my "religion", especially my first time on this list.  however, i feel

that man's search for redemption is a serious topic and if i have any

insight, i should contribute, however it may cause me to be perceived.  all

i'm asking is that if any of you are looking for some path to redemption,

try this one. it's worked for me and many others, and despite its

perversions at the hands of man, doesn't have to conform to the negative

connotations placed on it throughout the ages.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 16:22:14 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: Stone on Kerouac

In-Reply-To:  Message of Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:18:41 -0500 from

              <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

 

Sure, you can add my comment if you like.  As far as Beat-l postings are concer

ned, it's fine with me to reprint them so long as the author grants permission.

I think my comment was more on Leon's and Diane's argument about authenticity.

 I actually wrote a friend about the Stone article and categorized it as "sour

grapes."  Maybe I'll post that piece if the thread continues.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 16:32:02 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: redemption

In-Reply-To:  Message of Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:04:07 -0500 from

              <tcedmonds0@MCNET.MILLIGAN.EDU>

 

Kerouac's searching wasn't limited to a national idea like the American Dream.

 As you rightly point out he also searched for such redemption through establis

hed religion -- Buddhism and Roman Catholicism.  There's also evidence that he

looked for such redemption in nature, art, drugs, and friendship.  Unfortunatel

y nothing seemed to work for him for very long.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:36:35 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Beat Movement Was A Failure

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Patricia Elliott wrote:

>

> I thought the article was trying to say, (not to clearly) that of the

> two books, that otr did not stand up, that it was interesting in

> pushing  certain current (at the time of his perry without the perry

> trip) buttons but wasn't really there over time.  I might be confused

> but it was one of those damning with slight praise things.

> patricia

 

i really enjoyed the stories in the article.  they were kind of fun and

pulled me in to where i felt i was there watching the events

transpire....but when the articles shifted from story to criticism, i

think that you are way to kind in saying "not so clearly" - the fog

around the writer's point was far too thick for me to penetrate.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:39:09 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

todd edmondson wrote:

>

> i think a couple of you have said some very interesting things about

> kerouac's search for redemption.  i think if he was searching for

> redemption in the authentication of national dreams, he was on the wrong

> path completely.  true redemption, as has been my own experience, comes not

> in the form of anything that we on earth can truly identify with, such as

> "the american dream" or anything like that, but in something far more

> spiritual than that which the eye has seen.  kerouac and other beats seemed

> to look for redemption in the religions of the east, but those are just

> that--religions created by man.  in order to be redeemed as a writer or a

> human being, it is imperative that we find something far more spiritual

> than that.  i believe with all my heart that i have found that redemption

> in Christianity--not the Christianity that is found in many churches today,

> where people are condemned without compassion and judged as if man were

> God.  that sort of thought found much opposition in the "beat movement",

> and understandably so.  the christianity i embrace does have an absolute

> system of right and wrong, but realizes that man, despite vain attempts to

> attain moralistic perfection, is hopelessly lost within his own existence.

> only the grace and mercy of a truly benevolent God can save man from his

> situation--not a god of laws but a God of love for all men.  i understand

> that this is an unpopular position, and i don't mean to be overly agressive

> with my "religion", especially my first time on this list.  however, i feel

> that man's search for redemption is a serious topic and if i have any

> insight, i should contribute, however it may cause me to be perceived.  all

> i'm asking is that if any of you are looking for some path to redemption,

> try this one. it's worked for me and many others, and despite its

> perversions at the hands of man, doesn't have to conform to the negative

> connotations placed on it throughout the ages.

 

it seems that it would be difficult to translate the type of redemption

i kind of understand you hinting at to anything that would be events on

paper.....maybe i'm wrong, but it sounds as though a person called to

write would not find redemption.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:38:30 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RoadSide6 <RoadSide6@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Speakeasy

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

For the folks in my neck of the woods <Seattle> I thought this might be of

interest...

 

20 December @ 8pm @ The Speakeasy Cafe in Bell Town.... JACK SARGEANT,

featured lecturer as part of "Naked Lens: Beat Cinema".  With a screening of

both PULL MY DAISY and COMMUNION ...

 

See some of you there?

 

LD

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:08:24 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Speakeasy

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 06:38 PM 12/10/97 EST, RoadSide6 wrote:

 

>both PULL MY DAISY and COMMUNION ...

 

Would this be "Wholly Communion?"

 

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:38:33 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Beat Movement Was A Failure

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> Al Arnowitz wrote:

 

> Can somebody post a copy of "BEAT MOVEMENT WAS A FAILURE" so I can see

> what all the fuss is about.  I read Stone's piece and don't think it

> fits that headline, "BEAT MOVEMENT WAS A FAILURE."  Are you people

> talking about some other piece? --Al Aronowitz

 

There is some confusion here between two threads.  "The Beat Movement Was

a Failure" was an article whose URL was posted here by Alex Howard.  The

article appeared in his school newspaper.  He also posted an URL to go to

to read his response to that article.  Maybe he can do that again for any

of you who missed it.  Most of the comments about Stone's article are on

the thread called "Stone on Kerouac."

DC

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 19:40:14 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Donald G. Jr. Lee" <donlee@COMP.UARK.EDU>

Subject:      Henry Miller

In-Reply-To:  <348ED399.37A9@together.net>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Just wondering, as a possibility for a new thread, what you all think of

Henry Miller.  I know he was an influence on Kerouac and that they almost

met in BIG SUR, but anyhow...any thoughts?

 

Cordially,

Don Lee

Fayetteville, Ark.

 

"We are all guilty of crime, the great crime of not living life to the

full.  But we are all potentially free.  We can stop thinking of what we

have failed to do and do whatever lies within our power.  What those

powers that are in us may be no one has truly dared to imagine.  That they

are infinite we will realize the day we admit to ourselves that

imagination is everything. Imagination is the voice of daring."

                                                --Henry Miller

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:14:33 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> RACE wrote:

 

> it seems that it would be difficult to translate the type of redemption

> i kind of understand you hinting at to anything that would be events on

> paper.....maybe i'm wrong, but it sounds as though a person called to

> write would not find redemption.

 

First of all, I think the kind of redemption that Todd is referring to as

found in Christianity, was there for Kerouac to accept throughout his

life in the form of Catholicism.  Particularly, one could make a case

that fruitlessness of one's efforts that Kerouac described so aptly in

several works, his belief that all is vanity, all is suffering, all

ends in death, can be construed in terms of Christianity and the Catholic

church to be the nature place of man in human-ness, the state of man as

in a place where he has fallen from grace.  This grace was however

restored to man through Jesus, redemption is there through the simple act

of belief.  It's clear that Kerouac could never accept this type of

redemption.  However, what interests me about David reply is the fact

that Kerouac never found redemption in writing.  Perhaps he did seek to

do so but it doesn't appear that writing alone can work out spiritual

pain.  And if we go back to the "authenticate" theme again, it seems more

possible that one could authenticate oneself through writing than redeem

oneself.  Any other thoughts on this topic?

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 21:12:57 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      The Kerouac Quarterly page updated!

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

I updated the page today and have a small bit of news about the future of

the quarterly. Take care everybody! Paul...

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:59:21 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Subject:      That's what Michael Jackson said!

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Leon said:

 

 

> If someone asked me if I am beat, I would tell them to beat it.

>

 

Leon, that's what Michael Jackson once said.  Then Al Yankovick (sp?)

said eat it.  So, that might be an appropriate response as well!  :-)

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 21:12:35 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         todd edmondson <tcedmonds0@MCNET.MILLIGAN.EDU>

Subject:      redemption

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

in response to what diane said in response to what i said about redemption,

i agree with her that someone such as kerouac could authenticate himself

through writing.  the way in which i would define authentication would make

it possible, through a long and maybe difficult process, to tap into

something within in order to make something real of oneself.  for kerouac

and countless others, this something within would be writing.  redemption

by this process would be much harder--by my definition, impossible.  in

order to be redeemed, we have to be in a state that makes redemption

necessary.  i think it would be impossible for someone in this life-state

to somehow pull hisself out of that situation.  redemption has to come from

without.

todd

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:12:31 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Diane Carter wrote:

> However, what interests me about David reply is the fact

> that Kerouac never found redemption in writing.  Perhaps he did seek to

> do so but it doesn't appear that writing alone can work out spiritual

> pain.  And if we go back to the "authenticate" theme again, it seems more

> possible that one could authenticate oneself through writing than redeem

> oneself.  Any other thoughts on this topic?

> DC

 

well, it seems to me, that living an authentic existence would include a

spiritual dimension and spiritual pain would be a symptom of something

out of kilter in terms of authenticity.  my hunch is that at some point

authenticity and personal redemption overlap nearly completely.  it

seems to me that writing "could" provide this for folks -- and maybe

even for Kerouac.  What strikes me at the moment as i touch fingers to

keys is that perhaps Kerouac's difficulties were most associated with

finding authenticity when he WASN'T writing.  I just finished Big Sur

this morning and i had to think that the spiritual state of the author

while writing -- especially given the perspective of the last page (Jack

always seems to have a great last page doesn't he <grin>) is completely

different from the spiritual state of the Jack described during the

narrative of the Big Sur crack-up.  So perhaps the difficulty of finding

redemption and authenticity in writing is that there is no ground to

stand on between writings.  But i'm just typing out of my ass right now

and i can't say i really have any idea what the truth is when it comes

to notions of authenticity and redemption -- and if anyone has a good

handbook for such matters please send them to me for Xmas!

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:15:55 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

todd edmondson wrote:

>

> in response to what diane said in response to what i said about redemption,

> i agree with her that someone such as kerouac could authenticate himself

> through writing.  the way in which i would define authentication would make

> it possible, through a long and maybe difficult process, to tap into

> something within in order to make something real of oneself.  for kerouac

> and countless others, this something within would be writing.  redemption

> by this process would be much harder--by my definition, impossible.  in

> order to be redeemed, we have to be in a state that makes redemption

> necessary.  i think it would be impossible for someone in this life-state

> to somehow pull hisself out of that situation.  redemption has to come from

> without.

> todd

 

writing is something that comes from within and without.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 21:45:21 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         main user <mparsons@PARTECHSOLUTIONS.COM>

Subject:      Re: redemption

Mime-version: 1.0

Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

> it seems that it would be difficult to translate the type of redemption

> i kind of understand you hinting at to anything that would be events on

> paper.....maybe i'm wrong, but it sounds as though a person called to

> write would not find redemption.

>

> david rhaesa

> salina, Kansas

 

I don't know if we find it or not, but, as with all things, it's the attmept

that truly matters... the act of writing, of puttting it all on the page, is

in some ways, the saving grace of all scribblers... it portrays the

reflections of heaven and hell in us all.

 

Mick

 

"When I was young, I belived in God, but as I got older, it was my desire to

see God that kept me from seeing what was here on Earth"

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 23:21:16 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Some of the Dharma reading itinerary posted!

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

I have posted the complete program of the St. Mark's Poetry Project reading

of Some of the Dharma (thanks to the Kerouac Estate for this info!)on The

Kerouac Quarterly web page. To read, go to:

 

   http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.html

 

 

 

                                Thanks! Paul....

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 23:07:42 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         DCardKJHS <DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: redemption

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

In a message dated 97-12-10 22:59:13 EST, David wrote:

 

<< But i'm just typing out of my ass right now

 and i can't say i really have any idea what the truth is  >>

 

Thank you, David, for putting voice to a thought that (I'm sure) many of us

harbor about ourselves.  As for myself, any time you see a post from DCard on

the List, rest assured I've typed it out of my ass.  If ignorance is bliss, I

am TRULY blissed.

Dennis

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 23:19:41 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Some of the Dharma reading itinerary posted!

In-Reply-To:  <1.5.4.32.19971211042116.006a48ec@pop.pipeline.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

I have the complete program taped to my wall. It was quite a time,

folks...

~Nancy

 

On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Paul A. Maher Jr. wrote:

 

> I have posted the complete program of the St. Mark's Poetry Project reading

> of Some of the Dharma (thanks to the Kerouac Estate for this info!)on The

> Kerouac Quarterly web page. To read, go to:

>

>    http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.html

>

>

>

>                                 Thanks! Paul....

> "We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

>                                            Henry David Thoreau

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:27:47 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

DCardKJHS wrote:  If ignorance is bliss, I

> am TRULY blissed.

> Dennis

typing assholes. ON the tape "spare ass annie" is williams' bit about

the man who taught his ass hole to talk.  Between laying down and

laughing so hard it hurts when i hear it,  is depression because it is

such a perfect description of my old boss at city hall. charming, urbane

and utteryly souless.  I personally believe in redemption without

christianity and think that writing is a shock wave seen from the big

bang.  is there redemption only from outside of oneself, not for me , my

redemption is a pepperment of cum and tears.

p

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:27:28 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Patricia Elliott wrote:

>

> DCardKJHS wrote:  If ignorance is bliss, I

> > am TRULY blissed.

> > Dennis

> typing assholes. ON the tape "spare ass annie" is williams' bit about

> the man who taught his ass hole to talk.  Between laying down and

> laughing so hard it hurts when i hear it,  is depression because it is

> such a perfect description of my old boss at city hall. charming, urbane

> and utteryly souless.  I personally believe in redemption without

> christianity and think that writing is a shock wave seen from the big

> bang.  is there redemption only from outside of oneself, not for me , my

> redemption is a pepperment of cum and tears.

> p

 

ROTFLMAO - i was just thinking we could make a quick transition to the

asshole that talked as a new WSB thread!!!!!

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:53:43 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

RACE --- wrote:

>

> Patricia Elliott wrote:

> >

> > DCardKJHS wrote:  If ignorance is bliss, I

> > > am TRULY blissed.

> > > Dennis

> > typing assholes. ON the tape "spare ass annie" is williams' bit about

> > the man who taught his ass hole to talk.  Between laying down and

> > laughing so hard it hurts when i hear it,  is depression because it is

> > such a perfect description of my old boss at city hall. charming, urbane

> > and utteryly souless.  I personally believe in redemption without

> > christianity and think that writing is a shock wave seen from the big

> > bang.  is there redemption only from outside of oneself, not for me , my

> > redemption is a pepperment of cum and tears.

> > p

>

> ROTFLMAO - i was just thinking we could make a quick transition to the

> asshole that talked as a new WSB thread!!!!!

>

> david rhaesa

> salina, Kansas

 

so funny,  i was  remembering when i first joined the list, someone

challenged that there was any thing spiritual or redemptive in williams

work and i have always found it so full of spirituality and redemption.

the ass hole eventually took over, closing the eyes and tongue to will.

it killed the brain stem connecting the what mind thought and felt, and

left it no longer able to speak from his mouth.  by letting the ass hole

do all the talking, the ass hole eventually killed the man. left the man

with dead eyes.  I have always understood this as that expressing the

truth somehow allowed the soul to live.

p

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 13:15:54 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> RACE wrote:

 

> well, it seems to me, that living an authentic existence would include

> a

> spiritual dimension and spiritual pain would be a symptom of something

> out of kilter in terms of authenticity.  my hunch is that at some point

> authenticity and personal redemption overlap nearly completely.  it

> seems to me that writing "could" provide this for folks -- and maybe

> even for Kerouac.  What strikes me at the moment as i touch fingers to

> keys is that perhaps Kerouac's difficulties were most associated with

> finding authenticity when he WASN'T writing.  I just finished Big Sur

> this morning and i had to think that the spiritual state of the author

> while writing -- especially given the perspective of the last page

> (Jack

> always seems to have a great last page doesn't he <grin>) is completely

> different from the spiritual state of the Jack described during the

> narrative of the Big Sur crack-up.  So perhaps the difficulty of

> finding

> redemption and authenticity in writing is that there is no ground to

> stand on between writings."

 

Well, for me, your reasoning here jumped a bit but brought up several

good things.  First of all, that spiritual pain is a sign that things are

out of kilter in terms of authenticity.  You also should consider that

spiritual pain might not be a negative.  It may be instead a fundamental

state of human-ness, in which man is in pain and man is not in pain.

Both exist together as fundamental traits of being in the world; one

might or might not be advantageous over the other.  You reminded me of a

quote from William Barrett's "What is Existentialism?" where he writes,

"Authenticity is only a question of modification, slight but profound,

within our everyday existence which places this existence in a new and

altogether different perspective."

 

As far as Big Sur goes, I felt the ending was a big let-down.  It's this

bouncing back and forth from despair to joy again.  Kerouac writes,

"...The corner of the yard where Tyke is buried will be a new and

fragrant shrine making my home more homelike somehow--On soft spring

nights I'll stand in the yard under the stars--Something good will come

out of things yet--And it will be golden and eternal just like

that--There's no need to say another word."  Of all the endings to all of

Kerouac's books I felt like this one was the least sincere and almost

thrown on as a last minute attempt to give the book a happy ending.

After having read Big Sur we know he is on an emotional roller-coaster

that will not stop long in this peaceful and contented place.

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 23:29:47 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Big Sur - separating the author from the character Re: redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Diane Carter wrote:

>

> As far as Big Sur goes, I felt the ending was a big let-down.  It's this

> bouncing back and forth from despair to joy again.  Kerouac writes,

> "...The corner of the yard where Tyke is buried will be a new and

> fragrant shrine making my home more homelike somehow--On soft spring

> nights I'll stand in the yard under the stars--Something good will come

> out of things yet--And it will be golden and eternal just like

> that--There's no need to say another word."  Of all the endings to all of

> Kerouac's books I felt like this one was the least sincere and almost

> thrown on as a last minute attempt to give the book a happy ending.

> After having read Big Sur we know he is on an emotional roller-coaster

> that will not stop long in this peaceful and contented place.

> DC

 

i think the ending requires the reader to recognize the distinction

between the author and the character over time.  the incidents that are

the extremes of the crack-up are not occuring at the time of the

writing.  in expressing the crack-up the author is acting in an almost

opposite perspective from the cracked-up character.  it takes a pretty

together person to tell the truth about such incidents (as i think Levi

mentioned before).  As i read it, the last portion was the author's

voice as opposed to the cracked up voice.  It reminded me in a way of

the redemptive writing of Hesse in Steppenwolf - the surviving and

writing about it is itself a redemptive or at least spiritual act.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 21:56:59 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: redemption

 

i heartily disagree.  redemption can only come from within for that is where

the spirit lives and only the spirit can be aware that there is such a thing

as redemption (although, not having read the previous posts, i'm not sure

how it's being defined).  all that is in the universe is in the soul, the

soul redeems itself because it a part of that single universal spirit which

is the diaphane, the ether, that is the "subsatnce" from which all  things

tangible and intangible are born.

 

peace, sherri

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 01:28:33 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Big Sur - separating the author from the character Re:

              redemption

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 11:29 PM 12/10/97 -0600, david rhaesa wrote:

 

>It reminded me in a way of the redemptive writing

>of Hesse in Steppenwolf - the surviving and

>writing about it is itself a redemptive or at least

>spiritual act.

 

A quote from _Big Sur_:

 

"--Long nights simply thinking about the usefulness

of that little wire scourer, those little yellow copper

things you buy in supermarkets for 10 cents, all to

me infinitely more interesting than the stupid and

senseless 'Steppenwolf' novel in the shack which

I read with a shrug, this old fart reflecting the 'conformity'

of today and all the while he thought he was a big

Nietzsche, old imitator of Dostoevsky 50 years too late

(he feels tormented in a 'personal hell' he calls it

because he doesnt like what other people like!)--"

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 00:29:38 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Big Sur - separating the author from the character Re:

              redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

M. Cakebread wrote:

>

> At 11:29 PM 12/10/97 -0600, david rhaesa wrote:

>

> >It reminded me in a way of the redemptive writing

> >of Hesse in Steppenwolf - the surviving and

> >writing about it is itself a redemptive or at least

> >spiritual act.

>

> A quote from _Big Sur_:

>

> "--Long nights simply thinking about the usefulness

> of that little wire scourer, those little yellow copper

> things you buy in supermarkets for 10 cents, all to

> me infinitely more interesting than the stupid and

> senseless 'Steppenwolf' novel in the shack which

> I read with a shrug, this old fart reflecting the 'conformity'

> of today and all the while he thought he was a big

> Nietzsche, old imitator of Dostoevsky 50 years too late

> (he feels tormented in a 'personal hell' he calls it

> because he doesnt like what other people like!)--"

 

i thought this was hilarious cuz while the settings are different the

story is basically the same -- harry haller or jack -- same trip

basically.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 21:38:31 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUNET.YU>

Subject:      Re: redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

kerouac and other beats seemed

> to look for redemption in the religions of the east, but those are just

> that--religions created by man.  in order to be redeemed as a writer or a

> human being, it is imperative that we find something far more spiritual

> than that.

 

can you explain this? i agree with you to a large extent. but, why do

you feel that this is the only truly spiritual religion? i feel that The

religion would be the one respectful of all the differences and not

claiming to be the only one.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 21:58:47 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUNET.YU>

Subject:      Re: truly beat?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

second of all,

> something in the article got me thinking. Sam (i believe that was his name)

> stated something like, "to be truly beat..." as if there was a formula on the

> lifestyle and he knew what it was. this angered me. i don't even know where to

> begin to find a definition (other than this list) on "being beat." can any of

> you  give me a clue as to what "truly beat" is? i've considered the

> impossibility of answering this, but i'd like to get some feedback anyway.

there is nothing more dangerous than definitions. they limit you to the

smallest part of what you are.

 

ksenija

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 06:52:18 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

THE ORIGINAL american take on redemption

redemption comes from within, only knowable to the individual, and yet as

individuals belong to the species of man, even this is questionalble

-anne hutchinson, thrown out of massacusetts bay colony for deciding the

middlemen (ie authority male figures) we're needed for a direct connection to

the starry dyanamo at night.

she died a horrible death.

-emerson, thoreau, margaret fuller pick up the ball, adding that one can learn

to see from a different perspective, and be redeemed inside by a connection with

nature (inside/outside but still the individual)

organized religion: takes all direct experience away and deadens it with dogma.

their are days in shich i go to corner store and redemption center, and give my

beer bottles another round of incarnation.

feeling puckish

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 06:59:59 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

to explicate my rather cavalier post, i was talking of the inside/outside

american take on redemption, also taking into account where the inside

knowledge first comes from.

the transcendentalists were the first organized (loosely) literary group that

looked to the east for validation of their experiements and experiences.

and the beat goes on....

mc

 

 

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 07:59:29 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Marie Countryman wrote:

>

> to explicate my rather cavalier post, i was talking of the inside/outside

> american take on redemption, also taking into account where the inside

> knowledge first comes from.

> the transcendentalists were the first organized (loosely) literary group that

> looked to the east for validation of their experiements and experiences.

> and the beat goes on....

> mc

>

> >

 

the internal includes the external and the external includes the

internal one of the grand mysteries of being.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:46:26 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

Subject:      Jack and Marilyn Monroe?

In-Reply-To:  <348FF1C1.3438@midusa.net>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

This is interesting....I was talking to a friend about Marilyn Monroe,

and he said he'd read somewhere in the past that she had briefly dated

Jack Kerouac.

 

I then remembered a reference in Angel-Headed Hipster, that after "On the

Road" came out and Jack was suddenly famous, he got the acting bug and

enrolled in the famous Lee Strassberg school of acting, which Monroe

attended.

 

The book indeed says that he did know or at least was acquainted with

Marilyn Monroe.  Maybe it would have been a good match, a beautiful woman

who liked to drink as much as Jack did.

 

But more likely it was just a one-night stand I s'pose.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 10 Dec 1997 23:25:15 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Big Sur - separating the author from the character Re:

              redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> RACE wrote:

>

> i think the ending requires the reader to recognize the distinction

> between the author and the character over time.  the incidents that are

> the extremes of the crack-up are not occuring at the time of the

> writing.  in expressing the crack-up the author is acting in an almost

> opposite perspective from the cracked-up character.  it takes a pretty

> together person to tell the truth about such incidents (as i think Levi

> mentioned before).  As i read it, the last portion was the author's

> voice as opposed to the cracked up voice.  It reminded me in a way of

> the redemptive writing of Hesse in Steppenwolf - the surviving and

> writing about it is itself a redemptive or at least spiritual act.

 

I don't disagree with your position that one must be in a period of

stability to write about the instability.  My point is that the ending is

thrown at you really less than a page from where the character is still

in a highly agitated state where in his mind he sees the garbage pit

being dug as a grave.  As I see it, the whole book is memory of events

including the ending.  The author doesn't change voices at the end in a

way that says "that was the character then and this is me now." He falls

asleep and when he wakes up, everything is washed away and he is "normal"

again. Certainly his perspective is altered at the end, but it is a

sudden darkness to light scenario.  It is also an ending that says "I'm

going home to mother and everything will be all right."

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:16:22 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Big Sur - separating the author from the character Re:

              redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Diane Carter wrote:

>

> > RACE wrote:

> >

> > i think the ending requires the reader to recognize the distinction

> > between the author and the character over time.  the incidents that are

> > the extremes of the crack-up are not occuring at the time of the

> > writing.  in expressing the crack-up the author is acting in an almost

> > opposite perspective from the cracked-up character.  it takes a pretty

> > together person to tell the truth about such incidents (as i think Levi

> > mentioned before).  As i read it, the last portion was the author's

> > voice as opposed to the cracked up voice.  It reminded me in a way of

> > the redemptive writing of Hesse in Steppenwolf - the surviving and

> > writing about it is itself a redemptive or at least spiritual act.

>

> I don't disagree with your position that one must be in a period of

> stability to write about the instability.  My point is that the ending is

> thrown at you really less than a page from where the character is still

> in a highly agitated state where in his mind he sees the garbage pit

> being dug as a grave.  As I see it, the whole book is memory of events

> including the ending.  The author doesn't change voices at the end in a

> way that says "that was the character then and this is me now." He falls

> asleep and when he wakes up, everything is washed away and he is "normal"

> again. Certainly his perspective is altered at the end, but it is a

> sudden darkness to light scenario.  It is also an ending that says "I'm

> going home to mother and everything will be all right."

> DC

 

ok i may have to say uncle on this.  because you're right that the

transition to the last page is so abrupt as to be almost silly.  that

didn't make sense to me -- in fact, i found myself having to shift gears

and re-read sentences over and over again on the last page b/c the

transition was so abrupt.  but having read the last page over again

several times separated from the previous pages a bit, the other

interpretation made much more sense to me.  It's really difficult

sometimes for me -- in reading Kerouac -- to tell when he's speaking for

the Kerouac of the moment in the story and when he's speaking for the

Kerouac writing the story with the perspective of some time.

 

i'll say uncle to the fact that the character of Jack has a sappy

ending.  as for the author Kerouac, it seems he shows a bit of the

notion that writing through an ordeal - in all its horrors - is a way of

....not transcending but something close to that i'd guess....the

ordeal.

 

on another note, at completely unrelated - i was taken a bit by the fact

that at the beginning of the copy of Big Sur I was reading was this

statement about the Legend of D. and that it is a "comedy".  I think

that perhaps it is difficult for us to see the comedy sometimes b/c we

only want to see the tragedy.

 

and Diane ... it seems that so many of your comments about Kerouac come

together in a few themes that i hope someday you can put together a

wonderful book of your thoughts on Jack.  And since I always see the

opposite side of those coins - i'll heckle in admiration!

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:45:21 -0500

Reply-To:     "eastwind@erols.com"@erols.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "D. Patrick Hornberger" <"eastwind@erols.com"@EROLS.COM>

Organization: EASTWIND PUBLISHING

Subject:      Re: Henry Miller

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Donald G. Jr. Lee wrote:

>

> Just wondering, as a possibility for a new thread, what you all think of

> Henry Miller.  I know he was an influence on Kerouac and that they almost

> met in BIG SUR, but anyhow...any thoughts?

>

> Cordially,

> Don Lee

> Fayetteville, Ark.

>

> "We are all guilty of crime, the great crime of not living life to the

> full.  But we are all potentially free.  We can stop thinking of what we

> have failed to do and do whatever lies within our power.  What those

> powers that are in us may be no one has truly dared to imagine.  That they

> are infinite we will realize the day we admit to ourselves that

> imagination is everything. Imagination is the voice of daring."

>                                                 --Henry Miller

 

 

Good thought--

Miller was clearly influencial to the Beats--as an old guy myself who

met Ginsberg, Corso etc. (in Paris) my/our generataion was very much

into reading Miller, at the time, much of his stuff waass banned in

US...but most every college type could find at least one copy... the

ones published by Olympia aka: Obelisk Press, Paris.

In my mind I don't think enough is said about Miller's influence on the

Beats or for that matter--Miller's own talent as a writer is often

underplayed (probably becasue he wrote smut (for the time it was called

that anyway).His influence may have been more cultural than literary,

but Miller ddi write from the hip(heart) just like JK.

I dont remember where, but I recall JK, mentioning Miller's writing at

some lenghth.yes something yto do with Big Sur--but he comments on his

writing as well.If anyone knows write me.

Patrick

eastwind@erols.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:46:48 -0500

Reply-To:     "henkel@wmich.edu" <henkel@wmich.edu>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Scott Henkel <henkel@WMICH.EDU>

Organization: OVPR

Subject:      City Lights Books

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding:  7bit

 

Beat-L'ers;

Just FYI, the City Lights bookstore homepage is back on line.

 

http://www.citylights.com/CLstore.html

 

Scott

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:09:48 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

RACE --- wrote:

 

> the internal includes the external and the external includes the

> internal one of the grand mysteries of being.

>

> _____

 

if i am me and you are she and they are me... and someone is the eggman, than

 who

is the walrus?large mammals want to know.

hi dave

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:30:00 -0800

Reply-To:     Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: Stone on Kerouac

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

I had a backchannell that kids me about having my tongue tied by a tongue

lashing from Big Daddy Bill that makes very funny references to war happy

clansmen in cliques.

 

Truth is that I considered coming to the defense of my thoughts on the

subject of authentication of self vs concern about our cultures and their

dreams. I decided to leave it alone after the subject moved on to redemption

of the soul, or has anyone suggested redemption of the american dream as

well?

 

While I greatly admire your lucid reasoning as well as Diane's, you guys

haven't convinced me at all that Jack felt that authentication or redemption

of his life or his soul depended upon the drubbing that America dreaming was

getting from America dealing with the dirty business of survival and power.

 

Yes he liked to write about both and hinted many ways to the influence of

one upon the other myriad facets and sometimes paradoxically  appearing

details. Yes his attention frequently roamed from one aspect to another of

the vast universe that are our daily experiences of life. Still I have not

seen one instance of where he ties in authentication of self with the goings

on in the American dream.

 

It seems to me that we are looking at our use of words that denote richly

complex mixtures of realities and imaginary descriptions of loosely

"defined" conceptualizations. phantasies,

 

 People authenticate their american identity when they give their lives  in

war with declared enemies of the state. It has nevertheless happened that

some prisoners of war found more in common with their guards than with their

nation.  When two catholics kill each other ina war of their nations, does

that authenticate theit religious identities, their national identities, the

identities of their selves? Many eagle scouts have authenticated their scout

credo that way. Many writers have authenticated their identity as writers by

the work they produced. Jack Keouac authenticated himself as a writer who

tilled the soil of the american landscape among other places that he could

find to search for any signs of life, mindless and mindfull action. It still

seems to me that for matters of the soul he seemed to reach to metaphysical

testimonies that transcended national dreams or realities.

 

Arguments are won by one side or another. Reflecting upon our understanding

of things only stimulates us to further explorations, hopefully to be able

to see more clearly  in the grey areas of the mind where the perspective of

others brings more light as well as creates new shadows. Until the mind

becomes a well lit place. Would that be redemption? But when anyone starts

telling me that they know what I must do or think in order to find

redemption, then we do have an argument on our hands.

 

Unredeemed and in no need of authentication

leon

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Wednesday, December 10, 1997 7:21 AM

Subject: Re: Stone on Kerouac

 

 

>I'm not sure I'm going to put this very well but I agree with Diane.

>Kerouac, it seems to me, did seek to become part of, and to capture in

>his art, the vast spirit of the American dream as Wolfe and Fitzgerald

>and others did before him.  I agree with Diane wholeheartedly that he

>never found the redemption that he was looking for and maybe the

>impossibility of achieving such redemption is a truth readers discover

>through his work.   How does one discover or authenticate himself,

>except by measuring himself against a larger idea or tradition --

>national identity, religion etc.  In the end, one's search for self may

>end in a rejection of such big ideas as divisive and counterproductive

>but the search, it seems to me, has to involve a struggle with such

>ideas nonetheless.

>.-

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:33:50 -0700

Reply-To:     "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>

Organization: Calgary Free-Net

Subject:      j.r. saul and thoreau & US nation state and kerouac's escape, etc

In-Reply-To:  <199712111201.HAA02001@pike.sover.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

beat-l'ers and not...

just thought that i would add two bits abt trancendentalists (esp thoreau)

and some comments that john ralston saul (anybody out there heard of him?

he's a cultural and political theporist and author of _the doubter's

companion_, _voltaire's bastards_, and his latest book is called

_reflections of a siamese twin: canada at the end of the 20th century_, or

close to that anyway...) ANYWAY - he was mentioning that Canada is the

only true N.American state (which brought some chuckles from the audience,

lemme tell you) and then he proceeded to say:

USA = the great european NATION ( a la rousseau and the NATIONSTATE),

        peopl+++e as state, one people united, etc

        (in his opinion the US doesnt recognze this as they are too

consumed with the thoreau idea of "walden" which is actually a romanticist

idea of nature as "backdrop" and man as the conquerer of nature...)

EUROPE = has abondon the Nationstate, for something out of the middle ages

        of recognizing differences...

CANADA = "united states", that is, it truely is an undefinable "society of

        overlap" and it when those overlap occur that the country is best

        defined...

        unlike the US, in canada, because of the vast oppressiveness of

the landscape (which so many of us try to ignore for some reason...)

art=landscape=sex (that is the landscape informs the way we carry on our

lives and ourselves and informs the art that we produce...)

 

        discuss

        just a few thoughts.

        derek

 

 

On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Marie Countryman wrote:

> to explicate my rather cavalier post, i was talking of the inside/outside

> american take on redemption, also taking into account where the inside

> knowledge first comes from.

> the transcendentalists were the first organized (loosely) literary group that

> looked to the east for validation of their experiements and experiences.

> and the beat goes on....

> mc

******************************************************************

Derek Beaulieu

House Press (limited ed. chapbooks, prints, etc)

#502-728 3rd Ave NW

Calgary, Alberta, Canada, T2N 0J1

ph. (403)270-4440, fax. 270-9357

"remove literary, grammatical & syntactical inhibition" -Jack Kerouac

******************************************************************

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:33:08 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tara Lynn Waters <watert4@RPI.EDU>

Subject:      Re: truly beat?

Comments: cc: kombat@rice.edu

 

i don't want to tackle this question, defining "truly beat", because it is an

 impossible ideal.  there are no formulas for living only that you be oneself,

 be self-aware, self-understanding, open-eyed and open-eared and honest.  for

 each person this is different, it comes at a different time, it manifests

 itself differently.  yet i'll say this: to be truly beat, if this might be a

 possibility is to be all of those things and more.  who is to say what all must

 come together in your life to achieve this?  not i.  and for me especially,

 young and still learning so much, fain to call myself beat when in reality am i

 not only an admirer, a follower of sorts who takes these brilliant minds of the

 past and attempts to revitalize them in the future not as beat but as a part of

 me which can never be called beat, whatever that may be.  see, it is losing

 sight of the magickal horizons that kerouac, ginsberg and burroughs laid out

 before us to try to confine it with definition.

 

forever changing, evolving, open-ended and free.

 

tara

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:05:45 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         todd edmondson <tcedmonds0@MCNET.MILLIGAN.EDU>

Subject:      Re: redemption

In-Reply-To:  <199712111611.LAA29553@pike.sover.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

I AM, COO-COO-CA-CHOO

todd

 

At 11:09 AM 12/11/97 +0000, you wrote:

>RACE --- wrote:

>

>> the internal includes the external and the external includes the

>> internal one of the grand mysteries of being.

>>

>> _____

>

>if i am me and you are she and they are me... and someone is the eggman, than

> who

>is the walrus?large mammals want to know.

>hi dave

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:09:54 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: redemption

In-Reply-To:  Message of Thu, 11 Dec 1997 06:52:18 +0000 from

              <country@SOVER.NET>

 

On Thu, 11 Dec 1997 06:52:18 +0000 Marie Countryman said:

>THE ORIGINAL american take on redemption

>redemption comes from within, only knowable to the individual, and yet as

>individuals belong to the species of man, even this is questionalble

>-anne hutchinson, thrown out of massacusetts bay colony for deciding the

>middlemen (ie authority male figures) we're needed for a direct connection to

>the starry dyanamo at night.

>she died a horrible death.

>-emerson, thoreau, margaret fuller pick up the ball, adding that one can learn

>to see from a different perspective, and be redeemed inside by a connection

>with

>nature (inside/outside but still the individual)

>organized religion: takes all direct experience away and deadens it with dogma.

>their are days in shich i go to corner store and redemption center, and give my

>beer bottles another round of incarnation.

>feeling puckish

>mc

 

Yes, this American tradition is distinct from the Roman Catholic position -- th

at Redemption (via Christ) comes from without -- divine intervention in time or

 human events.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:13:03 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         todd edmondson <tcedmonds0@MCNET.MILLIGAN.EDU>

Subject:      Re: redemption

In-Reply-To:  <348F7C57.D5A@eunet.yu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

i'm sorry if i didn't explain myself clearly the first time.  i didn't mean

to lump all religions but Christianity into this huge pile and say they

fail while Christianity triumphs.  my point was that any religious system,

including Christianity, fails miserably when it comes to spreading

redemption.  only God can do that, and religion does little more than talk

about it.  i was implying that in order to find redemption, it is

necessary to find it outside of the organized church, in a more personal

relationship to God.  this can be found throughout literature (in the

stories of flannery o'connor, particularly), and is a profound truth which,

i believe, is worth looking into.  while my faith owes everything it is to

the teachings of Christ, i don't feel it is necessary to subscribe to the

doctrines of any modern-day church, especially because of the fact that

even the denominations within Christianity can't seem to agree on much of

anything.  it's a search that neither your church leaders, your peers, nor

your family can make for you, and in the end it's on your (or my) shoulders

what we do. that was my point, however confusingly it was worded.

At 09:38 PM 12/10/97 -0800, you wrote:

>kerouac and other beats seemed

>> to look for redemption in the religions of the east, but those are just

>> that--religions created by man.  in order to be redeemed as a writer or a

>> human being, it is imperative that we find something far more spiritual

>> than that.

>

>can you explain this? i agree with you to a large extent. but, why do

>you feel that this is the only truly spiritual religion? i feel that The

>religion would be the one respectful of all the differences and not

>claiming to be the only one.

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:23:54 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: Jack and Marilyn Monroe?

In-Reply-To:  Message of Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:46:26 -0500 from

              <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

 

On Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:46:26 -0500 Richard Wallner said:

>This is interesting....I was talking to a friend about Marilyn Monroe,

>and he said he'd read somewhere in the past that she had briefly dated

>Jack Kerouac.

>

>I then remembered a reference in Angel-Headed Hipster, that after "On the

>Road" came out and Jack was suddenly famous, he got the acting bug and

>enrolled in the famous Lee Strassberg school of acting, which Monroe

>attended.

>

>The book indeed says that he did know or at least was acquainted with

>Marilyn Monroe.  Maybe it would have been a good match, a beautiful woman

>who liked to drink as much as Jack did.

>

>But more likely it was just a one-night stand I s'pose.

 

Ahhh....hum.....I think that was ANOTHER Jack...

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:19:09 -0800

Reply-To:     vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Adrien Begrand <vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>

Subject:      Re: redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Marie Countryman wrote:

>

> if i am me and you are she and they are me... and someone is the eggman, than

>  who

> is the walrus?large mammals want to know.

> hi dave

 

PAUL!!! The Walrus was Paul.

 

looking out from my glass onion,

 

Adrien

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:24:41 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Musical Instruments from the Tomb of Tutankhamun.

In-Reply-To:  <3489E759.4DC97EB2@scsn.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

The Trumpet of KING TUTANKHAMUN

 

The recording of the sound of

the trumpet was made in 1939 in

the Egyptian Museum in Cairo for

BBC radio.

 

The recording is so unique because

since their discovery the trumpets

have only been played on very few

occasions. Considering their fragile

state of preservation, it is very

unlikely that any more attempts will

ever be made again.

 

"Owing to its fragility, the original

silver trumpet has been played only

twice, in the spring of 1939, when

a modern mouthpiece was inserted.

At the first attempt, the trumpet was

shattered but it was restored immediately

and survived the eventual broadcast.

The notes obtained by the military trumpeter,

after the restoration, were c, e, g and c."

(From: L. Manniche, "Musical Instuments

from the Tomb of Tutankhamun", Oxford 1976, pp. 7-13).

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

point yr browser to web site &

u can download trombut.wav, the

ancient trumpet sound:

 

http.//www.rai.it/grr/golem/maniaci/regra/

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:43:00 -0500

Reply-To:     "henkel@wmich.edu" <henkel@wmich.edu>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Scott Henkel <henkel@WMICH.EDU>

Organization: OVPR

Subject:      Re: redemption

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

Yes, later the walrus was Paul, but "no, you're not," said little Nickola

according to the jacket sleeve. All we really know is that if you're a boy,

you've let your face grow long and if you're a girl, you've let your

knickers down. Everyone is an eggman.

Scott

 

-----Original Message-----

From:   Adrien Begrand [SMTP:vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca]

Sent:   Thursday, December 11, 1997 3:19 PM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Re: redemption

 

Marie Countryman wrote:

>

> if i am me and you are she and they are me... and someone is the eggman,

than

>  who

> is the walrus?large mammals want to know.

> hi dave

 

PAUL!!! The Walrus was Paul.

 

looking out from my glass onion,

 

Adrien

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:47:31 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         M84M79 <M84M79@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: redemption

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

In a message dated 97-12-11 13:26:53 EST, you write:

 

<< my point was that any religious system,

 including Christianity, fails miserably when it comes to spreading

 redemption. >>

 

anais nin said,

"art is my only religion..."    and     "i only believe in poetry...i only

believe in poetry"

 

personally, i can handle that.

~~marlene

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:41:30 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

all are holy.

AG

quoted

mc, december whatevah....

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:47:34 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RoadSide6 <RoadSide6@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Speakeasy

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

In a message dated 97-12-10 23:09:01 EST, you write:

 

<<

 >both PULL MY DAISY and COMMUNION ...

 

 Would this be "Wholly Communion?"

 

 Mike

  >>

 

 

Methinks, yes... however the listing in WORDSCAPE Magazine had only the title

COMMUNION...

 

LD

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:34:54 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Joey Mellott <peyotecoyote@IAH.COM>

Subject:      A certain Ginsberg picture

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

On the episode of "The Fifties" on Friday, one of the photos they showed

was a spectacular picture of Ginsberg standing in a city with a nuclear

bomb going off in the corner, with him pointing at it in an "I warned you"

pose.  Has anyone else seen this picture.  Is there a copy of it online

somewhere?

 

Thanks

Joey Mellott : poet, writer, and progressive subversive

(peyotecoyote@iah.com)

"I want God, I want poetry, I want real danger, I want freedom,

 I want goodness.  I want sin." - Aldous Huxley

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:43:01 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Timothy Franklin Thomas <tt324696@OAK.CATS.OHIOU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: redemption

In-Reply-To:  <348F7C57.D5A@eunet.yu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On the rational level THE religion would be the one respectful of all

differences. Unfortunately all religions were created by man and man is a

long way from being tolerant. Redemption is alas only a fabricated concept

that man uses to excuse his indescretions. The search for redemption,

a human flaw of which I also possess, can be satisfied by the smallest of

acts. It is up to the one in need of redemption to realize what will

satisfy his conscious. It can certainly be something as simple as Patricia

says "cum and tears." Jack could find no satisfaction, Allen on the

otherhand found it in abundance.

 

 

On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Ksenija Simic wrote:

 

> kerouac and other beats seemed

> > to look for redemption in the religions of the east, but those are just

> > that--religions created by man.  in order to be redeemed as a writer or a

> > human being, it is imperative that we find something far more spiritual

> > than that.

>

> can you explain this? i agree with you to a large extent. but, why do

> you feel that this is the only truly spiritual religion? i feel that The

> religion would be the one respectful of all the differences and not

> claiming to be the only one.

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:53:17 -0800

Reply-To:     vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Adrien Begrand <vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>

Subject:      Re: A certain Ginsberg picture

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

I know what picture you're talking about. It's actually Allen standing

in front of and pointing at a projection of a photo of the Drake Hotel

in San Francisco. It was his inspiration for the 'Moloch' section of

Howl. The photo was taken by Harry Redl in 1959, and can be found in the

Holy Soul Jelly Roll liner notes.

 

Adrien

 

Joey Mellott wrote:

>

> On the episode of "The Fifties" on Friday, one of the photos they showed

> was a spectacular picture of Ginsberg standing in a city with a nuclear

> bomb going off in the corner, with him pointing at it in an "I warned you"

> pose.  Has anyone else seen this picture.  Is there a copy of it online

> somewhere?

>

> Thanks

> Joey Mellott : poet, writer, and progressive subversive

> (peyotecoyote@iah.com)

> "I want God, I want poetry, I want real danger, I want freedom,

>  I want goodness.  I want sin." - Aldous Huxley

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:31:39 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Henry Miller

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Donald G. Jr. Lee wrote:

>

> Just wondering, as a possibility for a new thread, what you all think of

> Henry Miller.  I know he was an influence on Kerouac and that they almost

> met in BIG SUR, but anyhow...any thoughts?

 

i really was hoping that they'd meet at Big Sur as i was reading the

book.  there was something about that little interaction that seemed to

me to provide some kind of hope of Jack connecting with HM and finding

some wisdom about how to survive aging and whatnot from him.  several

times as things were going from bad to worse i found myself saying --

really a shame he didn't have a chance to meet Henry Miller.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

>

> Cordially,

> Don Lee

> Fayetteville, Ark.

>

> "We are all guilty of crime, the great crime of not living life to the

> full.  But we are all potentially free.  We can stop thinking of what we

> have failed to do and do whatever lies within our power.  What those

> powers that are in us may be no one has truly dared to imagine.  That they

> are infinite we will realize the day we admit to ourselves that

> imagination is everything. Imagination is the voice of daring."

>                                                 --Henry Miller

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:51:00 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Glenn Cooper <coopergw@MPX.COM.AU>

Subject:      Re: Henry Miller

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.SOL.3.95.971210193923.14165A-100000@comp>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

aAt 19:40 10/12/97 -0600, you wrote:

>Just wondering, as a possibility for a new thread, what you all think of

>Henry Miller.  I know he was an influence on Kerouac and that they almost

>met in BIG SUR, but anyhow...any thoughts?

>

>Cordially,

>Don Lee

>Fayetteville, Ark.

>

>"We are all guilty of crime, the great crime of not living life to the

>full.  But we are all potentially free.  We can stop thinking of what we

>have failed to do and do whatever lies within our power.  What those

>powers that are in us may be no one has truly dared to imagine.  That they

>are infinite we will realize the day we admit to ourselves that

>imagination is everything. Imagination is the voice of daring."

>                                                --Henry Miller

>

I have the book "Conversations With Henry Miller". In it, he makes a few

comments about Kerouac. He says Kerouac has a "marvelous natural verbal

facility, though I think it could stand a bit of disciplining." he says

Dharma Bums is his favourite. He also sites Burroughs as a man of talent,

though some of his stuff "makes him sick".

 

Glenn C.

--------------------------------------------------------

"Life does not imitate art, it imitates bad TV.

                                        -- Woody Allen

--------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:09:48 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: redemption and clickityclickitytraintracks

In-Reply-To:  <199712111943.OAA24953@pike.sover.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>mc, december whatevah....

 

MC,

 

I'm looking at my calender and see that the 16th is rapidly approaching.

Chicago layover 3:05 to 6:00 P.M. Train station. That's next tuesday. Are

dates and times still on?

 

I'm going to try to make it. If I can't I'm going to check with a couple of

long-time friends to see if one of them will graciously welcome you to the

city and see you safely on your way 170 minutes later.

 

Itdoesn't leave much time for feasting, or sightseeing, but if the times

are stillon, and your host doesn't have to pass any Beat Lit tests, either

I, or (hopefully) an old co-conspirator, might be trying to pick out the

poet from the crowd.

 

Scanning the crowd looking for....  I know, I know. You'll be wearing a

poem in your lapel.

 

With a little luck your poetry tape will arrive on Saturday. Daughter's

friend has just had it returned from a her friend who left it with a

friendin Bisbee, AZ.  You and your poems do get around.

 

jo

 

 

                    HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES

                             Details  on-line at

                                 http://www.bookzen.com

                      625,506 Visitors  07-01-96 to 11-28-97

 

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:47:55 -0500

Reply-To:     "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Jack and Marilyn Monroe?

 

Reply to message from rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG of Thu, 11 Dec

>

>This is interesting....I was talking to a friend about Marilyn Monroe,

>and he said he'd read somewhere in the past that she had briefly dated

>Jack Kerouac.

>

>I then remembered a reference in Angel-Headed Hipster, that after "On the

>Road" came out and Jack was suddenly famous, he got the acting bug and

>enrolled in the famous Lee Strassberg school of acting, which Monroe

>attended.

>

>The book indeed says that he did know or at least was acquainted with

>Marilyn Monroe.  Maybe it would have been a good match, a beautiful woman

>who liked to drink as much as Jack did.

>

>But more likely it was just a one-night stand I s'pose.

 

 

Did anyone ever read the book....Something about Cowboys in the title (sorry

I can't be more vague)....there was a movie made with Uma Thurman as the

leading gal who had these enormous thumbs.  But anyway....of what I read of

the book, I distinctly remember how references were made in the story to the

leading character's brief affair with Jack Kerouac, something about how

they met hitchhiking...pretty funny.  This post reminded me of that book.

 

Diane.

 

--

"This is Beat.  Live your lives out?  Naw, _love_ your lives out!"

                                                        --Jack Kerouac

Diane Marie Homza

ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:50:46 -0500

Reply-To:     "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>

Subject:      Re: redemption

 

Reply to message from country@SOVER.NET of Thu, 11 Dec

>

>RACE --- wrote:

>

>> the internal includes the external and the external includes the

>> internal one of the grand mysteries of being.

>>

>> _____

>

>if i am me and you are she and they are me... and someone is the eggman, than

> who

>is the walrus?large mammals want to know.

>hi dave

 

"I am I, he is he, she is she, and you are a horse."  Croatian saying my

grandmother used to say, but I don't remebmer the Croatian (and if I did, I

couldn't spell it). :)

 

Diane.

 

--

"This is Beat.  Live your lives out?  Naw, _love_ your lives out!"

                                                        --Jack Kerouac

Diane Marie Homza

ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:11:03 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Jack and Marilyn Monroe?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Diane M. Homza wrote:

>

>

> Did anyone ever read the book....Something about Cowboys in the title (sorry

> I can't be more vague)....

 

sure you could be more vague!  Did anybody read the book ... can't

remember the title it was paperback and i bought it in that bookstore in

Boulder -- you know the one -- i think it was green (the book not the

bookstore - the bookstore was orange)

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

 

p.s.  i'll be quiet now!

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:13:33 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: redemption and clickityclickitytraintracks

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

jo grant wrote:

>

> >mc, december whatevah....

>

> MC,

>

> I'm looking at my calender and see that the 16th is rapidly approaching.

> Chicago layover 3:05 to 6:00 P.M. Train station. That's next tuesday. Are

> dates and times still on?

>

> I'm going to try to make it. If I can't I'm going to check with a couple of

> long-time friends to see if one of them will graciously welcome you to the

> city and see you safely on your way 170 minutes later.

>

> Itdoesn't leave much time for feasting, or sightseeing, but if the times

> are stillon, and your host doesn't have to pass any Beat Lit tests, either

> I, or (hopefully) an old co-conspirator, might be trying to pick out the

> poet from the crowd.

>

> Scanning the crowd looking for....  I know, I know. You'll be wearing a

> poem in your lapel.

>

> With a little luck your poetry tape will arrive on Saturday. Daughter's

> friend has just had it returned from a her friend who left it with a

> friendin Bisbee, AZ.  You and your poems do get around.

>

> jo

>

this sounds fun!!!!

anybody gonna be in Phoenix over the Holidays?????

i won't give a BEAT IQ test cuz i'd probably flunk it.

i won't have a lapel - so i'll have to stick a poem somewhere else

<grin>

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:23:46 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Jack and Marilyn Monroe?

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 09:11 PM 12/11/97 -0600, david rhaesa wrote:

>Diane M. Homza wrote:

>>

>>

>> Did anyone ever read the book....Something about Cowboys in the title (sorry

>> I can't be more vague)....

>

>sure you could be more vague!  Did anybody read the book ... can't

>remember the title it was paperback and i bought it in that bookstore in

>Boulder -- you know the one -- i think it was green (the book not the

>bookstore - the bookstore was orange)

 

_Even Cowgirls Get The Blues_ - Tom Robbins

 

(cousin of Tony Robbins - self help guru to the stars) {;^>

 

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 15:11:51 +1000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         John Pullicino <jjpull@PAC.COM.AU>

Subject:      Re: The Beat Movement Was A Failure

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.OSF.3.96.971209105728.23884A-100000@am.appstate.edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain

 

what was a failure was the ersatz madisonavenue/timemagazine conscription

of the 'beat movement' - it failed to hear to respect and to understand the

new voices that spoke into the hollow void left by the wartime

propagandahowl when the boys came home, and it failed to confront its own

postwar meaningless chromecar cocktail and cookingmachine suburban

imperative of 'time to have babies again - we beat the fuckers'

 

 

 

--

bye for now,

j o h n  P

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:35:59 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Musical Instruments from the Tomb of Tutankhamun.

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Rinaldo.....Hi,

 

        I tried to go to the Tutankhamun site, but address didn't work. Any

ideas?

 

                Antoine

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never

cease to be amused."

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 00:06:17 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUNET.YU>

Subject:      Re: Henry Miller

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

i call him joe because he calls me joe. when carl is with us, he is also

joe. everybody is joe because it's easier that way. at the same time, it

is a reminder thatone should not take himself too seriously.

 

henry miller, tropic of cancer

 

(this was translated from serbian, so it's probably somewhat different

from the original text; the meaning, however, is the same)

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:50:12 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      explanation "Pinocchio".

In-Reply-To:  <01bd0649$5d386c40$aa716086@ritzo>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

amici,

Pinocchio is a puppet who was made by wood

then became a real man. that'a all in italy.

saluti, Rinaldo.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 00:56:04 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Henry Miller

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 12:06 AM 12/12/97 -0800,  Ksenija Simic wrote:

 

>i call him joe because he calls me joe. when carl is

>with us, he is also joe. everybody is joe because it's

>easier that way. at the same time, it

>is a reminder thatone should not take himself

>too seriously.

>

>henry miller, tropic of cancer

>

>(this was translated from serbian, so it's probably somewhat different

>from the original text; the meaning, however, is the same)

 

Or as Dylan said in "Gotta Serve Somebody:"

 

"You may call me Terry, you may call me Timmy,

You may call me Bobby, you may call me Zimmy,

You may call me R.J., you may call me Ray,

You may call me anything but no matter what you say

 

You're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed

You're gonna have to serve somebody.

Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord

But you're gonna have to serve somebody."

 

>From a time when Dylan took things too seriously. . . {;^>

 

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 01:10:36 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: redemption and clickityclickitytraintracks

In-Reply-To:  <3490ABDD.76FC@midusa.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>jo grant wrote:

>>

>> >mc, december whatevah....

>>

>> MC,

>>

>> I'm looking at my calender and see that the 16th is rapidly approaching.

>> Chicago layover 3:05 to 6:00 P.M. Train station. That's next tuesday. Are

>> dates and times still on?

>>

>> I'm going to try to make it. If I can't I'm going to check with a couple of

>> long-time friends to see if one of them will graciously welcome you to the

>> city and see you safely on your way 170 minutes later.

>>

>> Itdoesn't leave much time for feasting, or sightseeing, but if the times

>> are stillon, and your host doesn't have to pass any Beat Lit tests, either

>> I, or (hopefully) an old co-conspirator, might be trying to pick out the

>> poet from the crowd.

>>

>> Scanning the crowd looking for....  I know, I know. You'll be wearing a

>> poem in your lapel.

>>

>> With a little luck your poetry tape will arrive on Saturday. Daughter's

>> friend has just had it returned from a her friend who left it with a

>> friendin Bisbee, AZ.  You and your poems do get around.

>>

>> jo

>>

>this sounds fun!!!!

>anybody gonna be in Phoenix over the Holidays?????

>i won't give a BEAT IQ test cuz i'd probably flunk it.

>i won't have a lapel - so i'll have to stick a poem somewhere else

><grin>

>

>david rhaesa

>salina, Kansas

 

David,

I feel redemption just around the corner. I screw up, space a post,waste

list space and manage to keep my foot out of my mouth. Something good is

going happen.

 

Good friend you might have enjoyed meeting called today and informed me

she's on her way to Switzerland for a month-long holiday.

 

Three years ago we moved to Madison from Tempe. Eight years down there. I

love the north country, but damned if I didn't fall in love with the desert

as soon as I experienced it.

 

While you're there take a hike up Echo Canyon.

 

jo

 

 

 

                    HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES

                             Details  on-line at

                                 http://www.bookzen.com

                      625,506 Visitors  07-01-96 to 11-28-97

 

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 08:56:37 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      (trumpet) Golem Tutankhamun.

In-Reply-To:  <BEAT-L%1997121123355967@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Antoine and friends,

(in the film titled fift element by Luc Bresson?) anyway the

the legend at italian rai broadcasting corporation

the best site about the egyptian trumpets

played in the 1939. in this site there's

a reverse sound of the tutankhamun trumpet and others info...

 

tutankhamun trumpets summary

check first!

 

http://www.rai.it/grr/golem/

http://www.rai.it/grr/golem/maniaci/trombfrm.htm

 

any comments and ideas email the golem at

 

golem@rai.it

 

************

other web site

Hans van den Berg

 

http://www.ccer.ggl.ruu.nl/ccer/trumpet.html

 

and

 

http://www.amargiland.com/hall-of-records/tuts.trumpet.html

 

this sites attention... that who are used to connect to internet

via trumpet.exe file maybe there's be a overwriting of the

file by the tutankhamun trumpet file so...

 

i hope this help, if necessary other info email me

 

saluti,

Rinaldo.

--------

Antoine wrote:

>Rinaldo.....Hi,

>

>        I tried to go to the Tutankhamun site, but address didn't work. Any

>ideas?

>

>                Antoine

> Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

>

>    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never

>cease to be amused."

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 05:54:39 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: redemption and clickityclickitytraintracks

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

hi jo! yes, you have date and layover time correctly. i'll be wearing

carnations bloom'n outta me bloomn' ears.

seriously, to be met by anyone, and to have help with luggage and perhaps a

bought in advance real food like grinder/hoagie, what ever it is called.

and i will exchange for tape just made that (despite absolutley insanne

laughter after a 3x blooped line, ) is a much better repesentation of both

reading and poem updates.

you're right about lack of time, but some companionship and someone to help me

stay oriented sure would be nice.

marie

 

jo grant wrote:

 

> >mc, december whatevah....

>

> MC,

>

> I'm looking at my calender and see that the 16th is rapidly approaching.

> Chicago layover 3:05 to 6:00 P.M. Train station. That's next tuesday. Are

> dates and times still on?

>

> I'm going to try to make it. If I can't I'm going to check with a couple of

> long-time friends to see if one of them will graciously welcome you to the

> city and see you safely on your way 170 minutes later.

>

> Itdoesn't leave much time for feasting, or sightseeing, but if the times

> are stillon, and your host doesn't have to pass any Beat Lit tests, either

> I, or (hopefully) an old co-conspirator, might be trying to pick out the

> poet from the crowd.

>

> Scanning the crowd looking for....  I know, I know. You'll be wearing a

> poem in your lapel.

>

> With a little luck your poetry tape will arrive on Saturday. Daughter's

> friend has just had it returned from a her friend who left it with a

> friendin Bisbee, AZ.  You and your poems do get around.

>

> jo

>

>                     HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES

>                              Details  on-line at

>                                  http://www.bookzen.com

>                       625,506 Visitors  07-01-96 to 11-28-97

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 05:59:53 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      even cow girls get the blues

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> tom robbins wrote it i believe.

 

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:01:50 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: redemption and clickityclickitytraintracks

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

no beat iq test and i can be immediatly recognized by carnations bloomn' outta

me bloom' ears, eh?

mc

 

RACE --- wrote:

 

> jo grant wrote:

> >

> > >mc, december whatevah....

> >

> > MC,

> >

> > I'm looking at my calender and see that the 16th is rapidly approaching.

> > Chicago layover 3:05 to 6:00 P.M. Train station. That's next tuesday. Are

> > dates and times still on?

> >

> > I'm going to try to make it. If I can't I'm going to check with a couple of

> > long-time friends to see if one of them will graciously welcome you to the

> > city and see you safely on your way 170 minutes later.

> >

> > Itdoesn't leave much time for feasting, or sightseeing, but if the times

> > are stillon, and your host doesn't have to pass any Beat Lit tests, either

> > I, or (hopefully) an old co-conspirator, might be trying to pick out the

> > poet from the crowd.

> >

> > Scanning the crowd looking for....  I know, I know. You'll be wearing a

> > poem in your lapel.

> >

> > With a little luck your poetry tape will arrive on Saturday. Daughter's

> > friend has just had it returned from a her friend who left it with a

> > friendin Bisbee, AZ.  You and your poems do get around.

> >

> > jo

> >

> this sounds fun!!!!

> anybody gonna be in Phoenix over the Holidays?????

> i won't give a BEAT IQ test cuz i'd probably flunk it.

> i won't have a lapel - so i'll have to stick a poem somewhere else

> <grin>

>

> david rhaesa

> salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:20:28 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         DCardKJHS <DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Jack and Marilyn Monroe?

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

In a message dated 97-12-12 00:01:03 EST, you write:

 

<< i bought it in that bookstore in

 Boulder -- you know the one -- i think it was green (the book not the

 bookstore - the bookstore was orange)

 

 david rhaesa

 salina, Kansas

 

 p.s.  i'll be quiet now!

  >>

chuckle, chuckle, chuckle....I'm encouraging your behavior.

Dennis

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:21:58 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         DCardKJHS <DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Jack and Marilyn Monroe?

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

In a message dated 97-12-12 00:15:06 EST, you write:

 

<<

 _Even Cowgirls Get The Blues_ - Tom Robbins

 

 (cousin of Tony Robbins - self help guru to the stars) {;^>

 

 Mike >>

 

This is a rib, right?!?  Say it isn't so!  Please.

Dennis

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:43:09 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Timothy Franklin Thomas wrote:

>

> On the rational level THE religion would be the one respectful of all

> differences. Unfortunately all religions were created by man and man is a

> long way from being tolerant. Redemption is alas only a fabricated concept

> that man uses to excuse his indescretions. The search for redemption,

> a human flaw of which I also possess, can be satisfied by the smallest of

> acts. It is up to the one in need of redemption to realize what will

> satisfy his conscious. It can certainly be something as simple as Patricia

> says "cum and tears." Jack could find no satisfaction, Allen on the

> otherhand found it in abundance.

>

> On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Ksenija Simic wrote:

>

> > kerouac and other beats seemed

> > > to look for redemption in the religions of the east, but those are just

> > > that--religions created by man.  in order to be redeemed as a writer or a

> > > human being, it is imperative that we find something far more spiritual

> > > than that.

> >

> > can you explain this? i agree with you to a large extent. but, why do

> > you feel that this is the only truly spiritual religion? i feel that The

> > religion would be the one respectful of all the differences and not

> > claiming to be the only one.

> >

Back from four hours of truckstop reading of Vanity of D. and read this

note and i just don't understand the notion of Jack finding "no

satisfaction".  Sure he was honest and open about his dissastisfactions

- much more than most of us are i imagine ... but why this near

consensus i get that Jack found no satisfaction?  It seems an awfully

negative impression of him.  I mean, sure - if i decide to take a very

intolerant view of people who drink to excess AND am angry that he died

young then i can read all his stuff and come out with this tragedy that

can bum me to the depths of torture-hell-and-back.  But he's also such a

beautiful writer about people and places and hilarious sometimes.

Vanity is going so slow caused it's such a fucking FUNNY book!  And so

it seems like we often go a bit overboard in this whole Jack don't get

no satisfaction kinda thing (mick jagger playing flute on the soundtrack

of this post) and perhaps it is that we (speaking for my attitude

sometimes too) don't get satisfaction out of jack cuz we won't forgive

or be tolerant of the life choices he made - which is hilarious to me in

its own way (and i gotta wonder if Jack doesn't just laugh at all of us

sometimes where-ever he is -- probably reincarnated as a computer

keyboard or something ---- who knows)....but the point i was trying to

make is that it seems like way over-stating the case to say Jack found

no satisfaction - - - - - - and i could go on and preach a sermon about

satisfaction and redemption and how one person's redemption is another

person's hell and my satisfaction may make you puke but that's ok cuz it

ain't your trip it's mine and on and on and on -- BUT ....

 

i won't.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

 

p.s.  still have this DAMN cold!

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:44:21 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Jack and Marilyn Monroe?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

M. Cakebread wrote:

>

> At 09:11 PM 12/11/97 -0600, david rhaesa wrote:

> >Diane M. Homza wrote:

> >>

> >>

> >> Did anyone ever read the book....Something about Cowboys in the title

 (sorry

> >> I can't be more vague)....

> >

> >sure you could be more vague!  Did anybody read the book ... can't

> >remember the title it was paperback and i bought it in that bookstore in

> >Boulder -- you know the one -- i think it was green (the book not the

> >bookstore - the bookstore was orange)

>

> _Even Cowgirls Get The Blues_ - Tom Robbins

>

> (cousin of Tony Robbins - self help guru to the stars) {;^>

>

> Mike

 

were you able to figure this out from MY clues???? WOW!

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:45:17 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Marie Countryman wrote:

>

> RACE --- wrote:

>

> > the internal includes the external and the external includes the

> > internal one of the grand mysteries of being.

> >

> > _____

>

> if i am me and you are she and they are me... and someone is the eggman, than

>  who

> is the walrus?large mammals want to know.

> hi dave

 

he lives in Wichita.  no kidding!

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:09:35 -0500

Reply-To:     blackj@bigmagic.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Al Aronowitz <blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>

Subject:      JUNE 12 & 13, 1998

Comments: To: edixon@excalnet.com, ddd@splab.org, jubilo@maui.com,

          mdickste@email.gc.cuny.edu, gdavid@northlink.com, crosby@nevada.edu,

          creeley@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu, 0003301643@MCIMAIL.COM,

          slamgran@ix.netcom.com, sc@media.mit.edu, nancyp@wenet.net,

          sparky@ecafe.org, dillo@ohww.norman.ok.us, BretthA@aol.com,

          rbove@duke.poly.edu, candida@numb.ie, FDBBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU,

          jablonk@pi.net, lew.blanck@usa.net, vbippart@sover.net,

          bigchief@bigmagic.com, belile@earthlink.net, beacham@radiomail.net,

          frank@beacham.com, ducksquack@hotmail.com, kenk@efn.org,

          BALLGV@vmi.edu, AB11@erols.com, barlow@eff.org, brooklyn@netcom.com,

          MAndre@aol.com, lamram1027@aol.com, aifsprag@mbox.vol.cz,

          HDREALITY@aol.com, acker@easynet.co.uk, GAMuse@slip.net

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

The NYC Parks Dept. has approved June 12 for an all-day event in Central

Park open to all.  For June 13,  Amiri  Baraka is working on obtaining

the Newark,NJ,  brand new Performing Arts Center for a more formalized

event for  which tickets will be sold and at which a VIP reception can

be held.  Either Newark s PAC or Newark s Symphony Hall.  The more

formalized event in Newark will take place during the p.m.   Baraka also

is trying to obtain Newark s Weequahic Park Stadium for further events

that evening (of June 13).  We are starting tp work on putting together

a cast for the show, which will include music, performances and

readings.  Sharon Levy, an L.A. organizer indicates that, after L.A. s

very successful Ginsberg memorial, the L.A. people are more or less sort

of "tributed out" on Allen and prefer the Central Park event to be more

of a Beat celebration that also honors W.S.Burroughs.  And

so we propose to call the event AN INTERNATIONAL CONVOCATION OF THE

BEST

MINDS,  gathered to celebrate the "Beat" impact and to honor Allen

Ginsberg and William

Burroughs.  Please mark June 12 and 13 on your calendars and let me know

if you wish to

participate in the program and what you would like to read, perform or

otherwise do once  you are on stage at the microphone.  So far, we have

vnfirmed for sure: David Amram, musician extraordinaire; Ellis Paul,

singer-songwriter,  Hayes Greenfield,  saxophonist extraordinaire.  In

addition,  I am pleased to announce that George N. Tobia Jr., a partner

in the firm of Burns & Levinson, a specialist in entertainment law and

attorney for the Jack Kerouac estate, has agreed to act as counsel to

THE ALLEN

GINSBERG MEMORIAL COMMITTEE.  In addition, John Scher,  promoter of  the

Grateful Dead concerts in Giant Stadium and other such large venues, has

agreed to act as producer.  Please spread the word. Best, Al Aronowitz,

secretary, THE ALLEN GINSBERG MEMORIAL COMMITTEE.

 

--

***************************************

Al Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST

http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:33:17 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

Subject:      Re: JUNE 12 & 13, 1998

Comments: To: Al Aronowitz <blackj@bigmagic.com>

In-Reply-To:  <349153AF.3BDC@bigmagic.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Sounds cool...can I suggest that Gerry Nicosia be invited to speak at

this event.  This would be a terrific place for Gerry to talk about the

Kerouac estate battle, and raise funds for his lawsuits (he has two as I

understand it, one pertaining to moving and preserving the "Memory Babe"

archives and one pertaining to his efforts to carry out Kerouac's

daughters wishes concerning Jack's papers)

 

Id suggest, to be fair, to invite John Sampas as well, but I gather he'd

only appear if Nicosia was expressly NOT invited.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:41:23 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "john v. omlor" <omlor@PACKET.NET>

Subject:      "By Way of Introduction"

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Strange.  Every now and then I feel compelled to post a piece here just to

let someone know I'm still writing.  Anyway, here's a small prose poem you

can feel free to skip right over.

 

-- J.

 

 

***************************************************

 

By Way of Introduction

 

 

 

She comes out of the door slowly, pulling a heavy coat over her shoulders

to protect hereself against a biting wind.  She is lost in thought but

still knows, somehow, to make the proper turns and avoid the posts that

line the street.  When she opens the door to the small room at the end of

the hall and turns on the light the sounds echo in solitude and lonliness

and serious business.  On the desk waits a small notebook, white pages, a

handful of mismatched pens and a bottle of wine.  There is music in the

room, joyous, and yet with an echo of solemnity.  There is dance in the

room, passionate and excited and vibrant and never stopping and spilling

over in excess and sweat and pleading and raw energy.  There is passion in

the room, begging and being begged and fulfilling and being fulfilled,

tasting and being tasted, losing and being lost.  There is work in the

room, dilligent and disciplined and determined and direct, carrying care

and caution and throwing itself often into courageous speculation.  And

there are the smells, warm bread, fresh fruits, simmering sauces, heavy

coffees and delicate teas.  And of course, there is silence in the room,

sometimes wonderful sometimes horrible; sometimes healing sometimes

painful; sometimes isolating and sometimes self-defining.  And finally,

there is love in the room, a capacity for sharing and for soft gifts and

for genuine, simple care that gives the room its light.  As she sits at the

desk and lifts the glass to her lips a smile creeps out of the corner of

her mouth and her eyes set off small fires.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 00:22:35 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> RACE wrote:

 

 - - - - - and i could go on and preach a sermon about

> satisfaction and redemption and how one person's redemption is another

> person's hell and my satisfaction may make you puke but that's ok cuz

> it

> ain't your trip it's mine and on and on and on -- BUT ....

 

I don't think redemption and satisfaction in life need necessarily to be

confused.  Kerouac did write things that were hilarious, he wrote about

"living" life, he wrote about enjoying the simplicity of life.  He could

find a great deal of satisfaction in little things, a can of pork and

beans,  loving his cat, and even a good "high."  To say that he also was

involved in an underlying spiritual search doesn't deny any of his good

moments.  We've talked before here about epiphany in his works.  In my

mind one can fully experience the high and low moments in life without

needing or finding redemption.  Sometimes in reading Kerouac it is as if

he expects a key to the mystery of life to be handed to him and that he

finds the deeper he looks at both Catholicism and Eastern religions he is

no closer to finding the key. The need for redemption is also something

that comes from growing up in a Christian religion.  What I think is at

the heart of Kerouac's work is: What do all the good moments and bad

moments of life mean in the face of death? Why do we live only to die?

And that is the basis for the comedy and tragedy that are equal parts of

life, and he writes a good deal about both of them?

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:05:14 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

Subject:      Re: JUNE 12 & 13, 1998

Comments: To: Al Aronowitz <blackj@bigmagic.com>

In-Reply-To:  <349153AF.3BDC@bigmagic.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

> addition,  I am pleased to announce that George N. Tobia Jr., a partner

> in the firm of Burns & Levinson, a specialist in entertainment law and

> attorney for the Jack Kerouac estate, has agreed to act as counsel to

> THE ALLEN

> GINSBERG MEMORIAL COMMITTEE.  In addition, John Scher,  promoter of  the

 

hmm though...I wonder if Tobia would back out himself if Nicosia was

one of the speakers.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:54:43 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         M84M79 <M84M79@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: truly beat?

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

In a message dated 97-12-12 02:04:21 EST, you write:

 

<<  don't want to tackle this question, defining "truly beat", because it is

an

  impossible ideal.  there are no formulas for living only that you be

oneself,

  be self-aware, self-understanding, open-eyed and open-eared and honest.  for

  each person this is different, >>

 

okay okay okay,

i suppose i didn't phrase my question the right way. i wasn't really looking

for a definition. i just wanted your ideas on what you thought that guy who

wrote the article meant when he said, "to be truly beat...blah blah blah"

should i have just written him off as an idiot and moved on?

~~marlene

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:49:22 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: yikes! And YIKES again

In-Reply-To:  <199712121234.HAA12252@pike.sover.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>

>Marie Countryman wrote:

 

>jo lost yr address, these came flying back, as did yr address. will

>wonders never ceace. ok here goes:

>

> look forward tobany help and companionship riding herd over my giant

>haversacks. and

> maybe something to eat that doen'st resemble train fare or power bars(my

> basic on the road c-rations) and david has already made the whole idea

>fun on the list.

 

Hey MC,

 

We'll see what we can do.

 

Hell I don't even know where the Chicago train station is. Last time I saw

it I was heading south to catch a U. S. Navy destroyer and the North

Koreans, all of China and a sizable section of Russia were trembling in

their boots and a doctor, freezing his buns off in the winter hills of

South Korea was thinking "This medical outpost is crazy. I better start a

journal. There's a book here and maybe a movie."

 

I'm at:

113 Cambridge Road

Madison, WI 53704-5909

608-246-0759

 

How about that Al Aronowitz. I'm making plans to throw a sleeping bag in

the old '66 Volvo and head to NYC for that gathering. This is going to make

the gathering for the three tenors look like a Whoopee John Wilfart polka

gig.

 

                    HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES

                             Details  on-line at

                                 http://www.bookzen.com

                      625,506 Visitors  07-01-96 to 11-28-97

 

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:51:48 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Jack and Marilyn Monroe?

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 07:44 AM 12/12/97 -0600, david rhaesa wrote:

 

>> _Even Cowgirls Get The Blues_ - Tom Robbins

>>

>> (cousin of Tony Robbins - self help guru to the stars) {;^>

>>

>> Mike

>

>were you able to figure this out from MY clues???? WOW!

 

Yup, that's what studying for psych finals does to ya.

It boosts the esp powers. . .

 

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:23:00 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Eric Lytle <e.lytle@CED.UTAH.EDU>

Subject:      Even Cowgirls Get the Blues

Comments: To: "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> Did anyone ever read the book....Something about Cowboys in the title

> (sorry

> I can't be more vague)....there was a movie made with Uma Thurman as

> the

> leading gal who had these enormous thumbs.  But anyway....of what I

> read of

> the book, I distinctly remember how references were made in the story

> to the

> leading character's brief affair with Jack Kerouac, something about

> how

> they met hitchhiking...pretty funny.  This post reminded me of that

> book.

>

> Diane.

>

 

   Such irony.  An old girlfriend gave me this book,  saying that it was

better than all those Kerouac books I was reading.  I was never able to

get into it,  and even now it sits in my books-started stack.  Maybe

I'll read on until she meets JK.  I don't know how many Robbins fans

there are on this list,  but we might be due for a discussion here.  Any

Robbins readers up for a comparison vs. the Beats?

 

-E

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:02:30 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

i've been confused and i'm guessing it goes back to that pesky word

redemption in the first place.

 

Diane Carter wrote:

>

> > RACE wrote:

>

>  - - - - - and i could go on and preach a sermon about

> > satisfaction and redemption and how one person's redemption is another

> > person's hell and my satisfaction may make you puke but that's ok cuz

> > it

> > ain't your trip it's mine and on and on and on -- BUT ....

>

> I don't think redemption and satisfaction in life need necessarily to be

> confused.  Kerouac did write things that were hilarious, he wrote about

> "living" life, he wrote about enjoying the simplicity of life.  He could

> find a great deal of satisfaction in little things, a can of pork and

> beans,  loving his cat, and even a good "high."

 

It seems to me that the depth of satisfaction he finds or shows in these

sorts of things are beautiful examples of finding redemption (with a

small "r" i guess) in THIS life.

 

To say that he also was

> involved in an underlying spiritual search doesn't deny any of his good

> moments.  We've talked before here about epiphany in his works.  In my

> mind one can fully experience the high and low moments in life without

> needing or finding redemption.

 

It seems that at the moment of these events (eternal moments i suppose)

that a person is as redeemed as possible in THIS life because the forms

of human separation felt so deeply by some are erased and absent.

 

Sometimes in reading Kerouac it is as if

> he expects a key to the mystery of life to be handed to him and that he

> finds the deeper he looks at both Catholicism and Eastern religions he is

> no closer to finding the key.

 

I think it's like he finds the key and drops it along the highway and

has to go find it again!

 

The need for redemption is also something

> that comes from growing up in a Christian religion.  What I think is at

> the heart of Kerouac's work is: What do all the good moments and bad

> moments of life mean in the face of death? Why do we live only to die?

 

Now these i think begin to push towards notions of redemption BEYOND

THIS life.  Perhaps i'm mistaken.  And i suppose that the specific

upbringing is magnified by the death of Gerard (and the question of why

did he die instead of me?) and if these are the notions of redemption

than i may be flip-flopping again (though i don't know why nobody ever

seemed to slap him and say Gerard could have grown up to be other than a

saint - he could have CHANGED and become quite the mouse-killer a mass

murdering mouse-killer and the nuns who used saint were speaking out of

turn and at most figuratively b/c as far as i know old gerard was never

put through the whole sainthood ordeal with passing marks after his

death)

 

> And that is the basis for the comedy and tragedy that are equal parts of

> life, and he writes a good deal about both of them?

 

but the legend as a whole he "says" is a comedy.  of course, i guess the

tragedy could be him thinking comedy in tragedy and then someone might

find the comic in that and it could go on and on and on.....

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

 

p.s.  called some receptionist an idiot over the phone but finally got a

doctor's appointment for my cold :)

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:10:54 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael R. Brown" <foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>

Subject:      Re: Even Cowgirls Get the Blues

In-Reply-To:  <34918104.8E217BCB@ced.utah.edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Eric Lytle wrote:

 

> Any Robbins readers up for a comparison vs. the Beats?

 

11:20pm Baltimore 1985, frigid winter, 19, college, no car. I'd been out

with Melissa 17 all morning and afternoon and evening, no buses or trains

back to Annapolis till dawn. Landlord wanted her for himself - no

overnight men in her room allowed. Stood at the landlord's stairs while

she went up then descended. In her hands were two novels to keep company

at donut shop: Vonnegut "Slapstick," Robbins "Still Life With Woodpecker."

Had few dozen cents pressed against return bus Annapolis ticket in pocket

- enough for two cups all night coffee. Into chrome and glass and

gold-flecked plastic sheet countertop donut shop, husbanded coins for

later, sat and opened Vonnegut. Strange and heartless. Finished then

ordered coffee cup. Opened Robbins and faint impression of colored light

and a smiling face that wrote these words. Second cup of coffee during

_Still Life With Woodpecker_, finished book at 2am and then sat in donut

shop, talked with wise wino bums ("Those are good hands you have there.

You should be a concert pianist at the Conservatory with those hands."),

talked with their taciturn brother behind the counter, grizzled big adam's

apple short man angrily shoving donuts on sheets into frier, and stared

out glossy window at static night sky, waiting for dawn and slight warmth

and motion and busses running again.

 

Dawn came after immortal hours of boredom. Melissa's landlord's house was

on way to bus depot, dropped books into single mailbox with scribbled note

on taken paper with borrowed pen: "Stream of unconsciousness."

 

Colored light, smiling face, stream of unconsciousness. That's been

the best of Robbins for me ever since.

 

 

 

 

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

  Michael R. Brown                        foosi@global.california.com

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

 

 

               "Honour thy error as a hidden intention."

 

                                        - Brian Eno

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:19:34 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael R. Brown" <foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>

Subject:      Re: redemption

In-Reply-To:  <34917C36.3144@midusa.net>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, RACE --- wrote:

 

> i've been confused and i'm guessing it goes back to that pesky word

> redemption in the first place.

 

"From what, and to what, could this infinite whirl be saved?"

 

                                - D.H. Lawrence

                                in _The Man Who Died_

 

 

 

 

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

  Michael R. Brown                        foosi@global.california.com

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

 

 

               "Honour thy error as a hidden intention."

 

                                        - Brian Eno

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 19:44:47 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Creeley at 70 - October, 1996.

In-Reply-To:  <BEAT-L%1997121123355967@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Baraka could've no less stormed the stage than if he had been backed by the

John Coltrane quartet itself. Baraka's small build gives one no preparation

for the immense vision, rhythm, voicing, and cadences that will emerge from

the flaming words of his performance. Invoking as central to the Yugen of

Baraka's earlier years, "the big three" of the magazine, Ginsberg (is that

right?), big Charlie Olson, and Bob Creeley. (Sorrentino, by the way, also

appeared in Yugen.) Baraka paid homage to Creeley then performed from

Transbluecency and his more recent Funk Lore (Los Angeles: Littoral Books,

1996). Baraka's humming, chanting, and vocal renditions of the standards-a

la-Baraka were in perfect accord with the chords still lingering, clinging

to the packed, overflowing theatre. No printed text can do this! People

filling all seats, people on all sides, standing, squatting, spilling out

into the Hallwalls' hallway. Blues, transblues, transvoicings, the

unbelievable coup d'etats of Baraka's "lowcoups" (African American version

of that knock-out blast commonly associated with the haiku), and his

closing triumph (slaves, dig, we were once slaves). Indeed, it was about

people, what we are, the rhythms that vibrate through one and the same.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:53:14 -0500

Reply-To:     blackj@bigmagic.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Al Aronowitz <blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>

Subject:      Re: Creeley at 70 - October, 1996.

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

>

> Baraka could've no less stormed the stage than if he had been backed by the

> John Coltrane quartet itself. Baraka's small build gives one no preparation

> for the immense vision, rhythm, voicing, and cadences that will emerge from

> the flaming words of his performance. Invoking as central to the Yugen of

> Baraka's earlier years, "the big three" of the magazine, Ginsberg (is that

> right?), big Charlie Olson, and Bob Creeley. (Sorrentino, by the way, also

> appeared in Yugen.) Baraka paid homage to Creeley then performed from

> Transbluecency and his more recent Funk Lore (Los Angeles: Littoral Books,

> 1996). Baraka's humming, chanting, and vocal renditions of the standards-a

> la-Baraka were in perfect accord with the chords still lingering, clinging

> to the packed, overflowing theatre. No printed text can do this! People

> filling all seats, people on all sides, standing, squatting, spilling out

> into the Hallwalls' hallway. Blues, transblues, transvoicings, the

> unbelievable coup d'etats of Baraka's "lowcoups" (African American version

> of that knock-out blast commonly associated with the haiku), and his

> closing triumph (slaves, dig, we were once slaves). Indeed, it was about

> people, what we are, the rhythms that vibrate through one and the same.

RINALDO:  Is this your prose?  Or poetry, if y'wanna callit that.  It's

fuckin beautiful and absolutely hits the nail on the head!  That's the

Baraka I know! --Al Aronowitz

--

***************************************

Al Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST

http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:00:22 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Hemenway . Mark" <MHemenway@DRC.COM>

Subject:      Re: Was Beat Movement a Failure

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

 

I didn't think there was a beat movement. Just a bunch of guys (mostly),

some of whom talked about beatness and tried to be authentic individuals

in their time and place. Hell, they never even agreed on what the word

meant, thereby providing us endless hours of enjoyment debating the

same.

 

"If you can talk about it, it ain't the tao."

"If it's got a name, it ain't the tao. "

 

Mark Hemenway

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:10:00 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Even Cowgirls Get the Blues

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

God! I tried reading that book too! the back blurb about Kerouac got me to buy

it- what a waste of bucks! Tom Robbins is no writer- at least not a serious

one- much less even a funny one. now Uma Thurman with big thumbs sounds

interesting.

                                                  Gene

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:15:10 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

armong arms laden with wine

dniffing off the nustthat driftsinter yr ears

thanks.

will have boris and natacha on lookout

from train platrorm

scully

 

RACE --- wrote:

 

> Marie Countryman wrote:

> >

> > RACE --- wrote:

> >

> > > the internal includes the external and the external includes the

> > > internal one of the grand mysteries of being.

> > >

> > > _____

> >

> > if i am me and you are she and they are me... and someone is the eggman,

 than

> >  who

> > is the walrus?large mammals want to know.

> > hi dave

>

> he lives in Wichita.  no kidding!

>

> david rhaesa

> salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:19:14 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: yikes! And YIKES again

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

you kickle me, you really do.

mc

whatever happens will be an adventure; perhaps an adventure told to you, and

not starring you(as was my wont), but you wiil be there, a truffaut  or

fellini character, there immediately outofand into place, like a burroughs

caracter, hell by wsb hisself....

i do go on, don't i

mc

 

jo grant wrote:

 

> >

> >Marie Countryman wrote:

>

> >jo lost yr address, these came flying back, as did yr address. will

> >wonders never ceace. ok here goes:

> >

> > look forward tobany help and companionship riding herd over my giant

> >haversacks. and

> > maybe something to eat that doen'st resemble train fare or power bars(my

> > basic on the road c-rations) and david has already made the whole idea

> >fun on the list.

>

> Hey MC,

>

> We'll see what we can do.

>

> Hell I don't even know where the Chicago train station is. Last time I saw

> it I was heading south to catch a U. S. Navy destroyer and the North

> Koreans, all of China and a sizable section of Russia were trembling in

> their boots and a doctor, freezing his buns off in the winter hills of

> South Korea was thinking "This medical outpost is crazy. I better start a

> journal. There's a book here and maybe a movie."

>

> I'm at:

> 113 Cambridge Road

> Madison, WI 53704-5909

> 608-246-0759

>

> How about that Al Aronowitz. I'm making plans to throw a sleeping bag in

> the old '66 Volvo and head to NYC for that gathering. This is going to make

> the gathering for the three tenors look like a Whoopee John Wilfart polka

> gig.

>

>                     HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES

>                              Details  on-line at

>                                  http://www.bookzen.com

>                       625,506 Visitors  07-01-96 to 11-28-97

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:22:05 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: "By Way of Introduction"

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

keep on giving into those urges to write, and send them out to us, angel mine.

 

mc

 

john v. omlor wrote:

 

> Strange.  Every now and then I feel compelled to post a piece here just to

> let someone know I'm still writing.  Anyway, here's a small prose poem you

> can feel free to skip right over.

>

> -- J.

>

> ***************************************************

>

> By Way of Introduction

>

> She comes out of the door slowly, pulling a heavy coat over her shoulders

> to protect hereself against a biting wind.  She is lost in thought but

> still knows, somehow, to make the proper turns and avoid the posts that

> line the street.  When she opens the door to the small room at the end of

> the hall and turns on the light the sounds echo in solitude and lonliness

> and serious business.  On the desk waits a small notebook, white pages, a

> handful of mismatched pens and a bottle of wine.  There is music in the

> room, joyous, and yet with an echo of solemnity.  There is dance in the

> room, passionate and excited and vibrant and never stopping and spilling

> over in excess and sweat and pleading and raw energy.  There is passion in

> the room, begging and being begged and fulfilling and being fulfilled,

> tasting and being tasted, losing and being lost.  There is work in the

> room, dilligent and disciplined and determined and direct, carrying care

> and caution and throwing itself often into courageous speculation.  And

> there are the smells, warm bread, fresh fruits, simmering sauces, heavy

> coffees and delicate teas.  And of course, there is silence in the room,

> sometimes wonderful sometimes horrible; sometimes healing sometimes

> painful; sometimes isolating and sometimes self-defining.  And finally,

> there is love in the room, a capacity for sharing and for soft gifts and

> for genuine, simple care that gives the room its light.  As she sits at the

> desk and lifts the glass to her lips a smile creeps out of the corner of

> her mouth and her eyes set off small fires.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:43:06 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

rave on dear racer!

mc

love this reply

 

RACE --- wrote:

 

> Timothy Franklin Thomas wrote:

> >

> > On the rational level THE religion would be the one respectful of all

> > differences. Unfortunately all religions were created by man and man is a

> > long way from being tolerant. Redemption is alas only a fabricated concept

> > that man uses to excuse his indescretions. The search for redemption,

> > a human flaw of which I also possess, can be satisfied by the smallest of

> > acts. It is up to the one in need of redemption to realize what will

> > satisfy his conscious. It can certainly be something as simple as Patricia

> > says "cum and tears." Jack could find no satisfaction, Allen on the

> > otherhand found it in abundance.

> >

> > On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Ksenija Simic wrote:

> >

> > > kerouac and other beats seemed

> > > > to look for redemption in the religions of the east, but those are just

> > > > that--religions created by man.  in order to be redeemed as a writer or

 a

> > > > human being, it is imperative that we find something far more spiritual

> > > > than that.

> > >

> > > can you explain this? i agree with you to a large extent. but, why do

> > > you feel that this is the only truly spiritual religion? i feel that The

> > > religion would be the one respectful of all the differences and not

> > > claiming to be the only one.

> > >

> Back from four hours of truckstop reading of Vanity of D. and read this

> note and i just don't understand the notion of Jack finding "no

> satisfaction".  Sure he was honest and open about his dissastisfactions

> - much more than most of us are i imagine ... but why this near

> consensus i get that Jack found no satisfaction?  It seems an awfully

> negative impression of him.  I mean, sure - if i decide to take a very

> intolerant view of people who drink to excess AND am angry that he died

> young then i can read all his stuff and come out with this tragedy that

> can bum me to the depths of torture-hell-and-back.  But he's also such a

> beautiful writer about people and places and hilarious sometimes.

> Vanity is going so slow caused it's such a fucking FUNNY book!  And so

> it seems like we often go a bit overboard in this whole Jack don't get

> no satisfaction kinda thing (mick jagger playing flute on the soundtrack

> of this post) and perhaps it is that we (speaking for my attitude

> sometimes too) don't get satisfaction out of jack cuz we won't forgive

> or be tolerant of the life choices he made - which is hilarious to me in

> its own way (and i gotta wonder if Jack doesn't just laugh at all of us

> sometimes where-ever he is -- probably reincarnated as a computer

> keyboard or something ---- who knows)....but the point i was trying to

> make is that it seems like way over-stating the case to say Jack found

> no satisfaction - - - - - - and i could go on and preach a sermon about

> satisfaction and redemption and how one person's redemption is another

> person's hell and my satisfaction may make you puke but that's ok cuz it

> ain't your trip it's mine and on and on and on -- BUT ....

>

> i won't.

>

> david rhaesa

> salina, Kansas

>

> p.s.  still have this DAMN cold!

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:45:36 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      oh is my face red.

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

sorry i got myself all turned around here today. think i posted private

posts here. can't remember which ones. damn!

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:56:28 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: JUNE 12 & 13, 1998

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.971212102835.285A-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

 On 12-12 Richard Wallner wrote

>Sounds cool...can I suggest that Gerry Nicosia be invited to speak at

>this event.  This would be a terrific place for Gerry to talk about the

>Kerouac estate battle, and raise funds for his lawsuits (he has two as I

>understand it, one pertaining to moving and preserving the "Memory Babe"

>archives and one pertaining to his efforts to carry out Kerouac's

>daughters wishes concerning Jack's papers)

>

>Id suggest, to be fair, to invite John Sampas as well, but I gather he'd

>only appear if Nicosia was expressly NOT invited.

\Richard:

 

Sounds cool. Sounds VERY, VERY cool. And this gets cc'd to Al Aronowitz so

he can give some thought to your recommendation.

 

That's going to be a busy day and night in Central Park. Probably attract

Beats from around the world. I'll bet that audience would love a 15 minute

break. Five minutes for John Sampas. Then five minutes for Gerry Nicosia.

Then give each of them 2 minutes to respond and let the mass of Beats get a

taste of what the litigation is all about.

 

And then let the courts decide.

 

j grant

 

 

 

 

 

                    HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES

                             Details  on-line at

                                 http://www.bookzen.com

                      625,506 Visitors  07-01-96 to 11-28-97

 

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:00:20 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: oh is my face red.

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Marie Countryman wrote:

>

> sorry i got myself all turned around here today. think i posted private

> posts here. can't remember which ones. damn!

> mc

 

heh heh heh -- it happens to the best of us ... some guy named joe in

western lands not knowing which buttons to push ... we've all got the

same damn technician in our collective heads and old joe (petticoat

junction theme in my head) is moving slow at the buttons and pushes

green for red and blue for orange because he was born color-blind and

managed to pass the grand technicians test in the sky because the

technician on grading duty named old joe too (or two don't know which)

happened to be color-blind to and so he'd pushed all the wrong buttons

too and by random coincidence or meaningful synchronistic significance

the errors overlapped perfectly and old joe's scores outdid old joe too

two's scores and old joe took over at the technician post and keeps

hitting those synapses in the collective unconscious that say "sure it's

the wrong button but push it anyway!!! heh heh heh.... and see what

happens ... heh heh heh ... how will we ever know which button is THE

button without some good old fashioned american trial and error

ingenuity ... heh heh heh...." and so the switch is hit and we all

manage to send private to public and public to private and soon there's

lawsuits flying around but then old joe just pushes a button or two in

rehnquists secret diaries and they go on-line and the supreme court is

well let's just say a little less supreme! and so the public figure

doctrine in libel is quickly flip-flopped to protect public figures more

than private figures like we're all statues or something and if this was

going anywhere's i've forgotten what train track it was on -- oh yeah

...there's uncle joe he's a moving kinda slow at the junction....!

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:09:30 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: JUNE 12 & 13, 1998

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

jo grant wrote:

> Five minutes for John Sampas. Then five minutes for Gerry Nicosia.

> Then give each of them 2 minutes to respond and let the mass of Beats get a

> taste of what the litigation is all about.

 

but please no eye-gouging!!!!!!!!!!

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

>

> And then let the courts decide.

>

> j grant

>

>                     HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES

>                              Details  on-line at

>                                  http://www.bookzen.com

>                       625,506 Visitors  07-01-96 to 11-28-97

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:15:51 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael R. Brown" <foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>

Subject:      Re: JUNE 12 & 13, 1998

In-Reply-To:  <v03110706b0b7378cd537@[156.46.45.121]>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, jo grant wrote:

 

> That's going to be a busy day and night in Central Park. Probably attract

> Beats from around the world. I'll bet that audience would love a 15 minute

> break. Five minutes for John Sampas. Then five minutes for Gerry Nicosia.

> Then give each of them 2 minutes to respond and let the mass of Beats get a

> taste of what the litigation is all about.

 

How about a vote by light?

 

The pro-Nicosia forces could light up candles, and the pro-Sampas forces

could knock them out of the pro-Nicosia hands.  ;)

 

 

 

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

  Michael R. Brown                        foosi@global.california.com

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

 

 

               "Honour thy error as a hidden intention."

 

                                        - Brian Eno

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:40:45 -0800

Reply-To:     Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Did Jack give satisfaction?

 

His writings sure gave rise to all manner of passion. Passionate Readers

with Clues, followers without any. al

 

Did Jack get no satisfaction? Did he give no satisfaction?

His writing sure gave rise to all manner of readers  followers with clues

and with no clue worshippers no clue passions released with heat thirty

years after his death and the flames fanning.

-----Original Message-----

From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Friday, December 12, 1997 10:06 AM

Subject: Re: redemption

 

 

>i've been confused and i'm guessing it goes back to that pesky word

>redemption in the first place.

>

>Diane Carter wrote:

>>

>> > RACE wrote:

>>

>>  - - - - - and i could go on and preach a sermon about

>> > satisfaction and redemption and how one person's redemption is another

>> > person's hell and my satisfaction may make you puke but that's ok cuz

>> > it

>> > ain't your trip it's mine and on and on and on -- BUT ....

>>

>> I don't think redemption and satisfaction in life need necessarily to be

>> confused.  Kerouac did write things that were hilarious, he wrote about

>> "living" life, he wrote about enjoying the simplicity of life.  He could

>> find a great deal of satisfaction in little things, a can of pork and

>> beans,  loving his cat, and even a good "high."

>

>It seems to me that the depth of satisfaction he finds or shows in these

>sorts of things are beautiful examples of finding redemption (with a

>small "r" i guess) in THIS life.

>

>To say that he also was

>> involved in an underlying spiritual search doesn't deny any of his good

>> moments.  We've talked before here about epiphany in his works.  In my

>> mind one can fully experience the high and low moments in life without

>> needing or finding redemption.

>

>It seems that at the moment of these events (eternal moments i suppose)

>that a person is as redeemed as possible in THIS life because the forms

>of human separation felt so deeply by some are erased and absent.

>

>Sometimes in reading Kerouac it is as if

>> he expects a key to the mystery of life to be handed to him and that he

>> finds the deeper he looks at both Catholicism and Eastern religions he is

>> no closer to finding the key.

>

>I think it's like he finds the key and drops it along the highway and

>has to go find it again!

>

>The need for redemption is also something

>> that comes from growing up in a Christian religion.  What I think is at

>> the heart of Kerouac's work is: What do all the good moments and bad

>> moments of life mean in the face of death? Why do we live only to die?

>

>Now these i think begin to push towards notions of redemption BEYOND

>THIS life.  Perhaps i'm mistaken.  And i suppose that the specific

>upbringing is magnified by the death of Gerard (and the question of why

>did he die instead of me?) and if these are the notions of redemption

>than i may be flip-flopping again (though i don't know why nobody ever

>seemed to slap him and say Gerard could have grown up to be other than a

>saint - he could have CHANGED and become quite the mouse-killer a mass

>murdering mouse-killer and the nuns who used saint were speaking out of

>turn and at most figuratively b/c as far as i know old gerard was never

>put through the whole sainthood ordeal with passing marks after his

>death)

>

>> And that is the basis for the comedy and tragedy that are equal parts of

>> life, and he writes a good deal about both of them?

>

>but the legend as a whole he "says" is a comedy.  of course, i guess the

>tragedy could be him thinking comedy in tragedy and then someone might

>find the comic in that and it could go on and on and on.....

>

>david rhaesa

>salina, Kansas

>

>p.s.  called some receptionist an idiot over the phone but finally got a

>doctor's appointment for my cold :)

>.-

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 15:51:49 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael R. Brown" <foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>

Subject:      Re: Was Beat Movement a Failure

In-Reply-To:  <1017B7AD7D34D111B9C900805FC1D3AE425262@and02.drc.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Hemenway . Mark wrote:

 

> I didn't think there was a beat movement. Just a bunch of guys (mostly),

> some of whom talked about beatness and tried to be authentic individuals

> in their time and place. Hell, they never even agreed on what the word

> meant, thereby providing us endless hours of enjoyment debating the

> same.

 

W'ayll, now, since Burroughs really helped _start_ Beatness when Ginsberg

came to him as 30-year-old elder statesman and asked him to mediate in the

dispute on what is Art, and Burroughs sniffed that his training with

Alfred Korzybski and General Semantics had taught him that all

abstractions are merely names for groups of particulars ... there's a

"Beat Movement" if that's what you want to call Burroughs, Ginsberg, etc.

If you thoroughly distinguish between abstractions, particulars, groups

of particulars, concepts, and names for them all, you will go far. :)

 

Was there a Beat Movement? In the normal meaning of the terms, yes. As

much as there was a Romantic Period or Cliassical Period in European art.

 

 

 

 

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

  Michael R. Brown                        foosi@global.california.com

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

 

 

               "Honour thy error as a hidden intention."

 

                                        - Brian Eno

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 19:48:56 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: "By Way of Introduction"

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

Simply beautiful! thanks John

                                                     GT

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 19:57:07 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Jack and Marilyn Monroe?

Comments: To: "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>

In-Reply-To:  <199712120247.VAA28706@owl.INS.CWRU.Edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Even Cowgirls Get the Blues by Tom Rollins,

book and movie

 

Mike Rice

 

At 09:47 PM 12/11/97 -0500, Diane M. Homza wrote:

>Reply to message from rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG of Thu, 11 Dec

>>

>>This is interesting....I was talking to a friend about Marilyn Monroe,

>>and he said he'd read somewhere in the past that she had briefly dated

>>Jack Kerouac.

>>

>>I then remembered a reference in Angel-Headed Hipster, that after "On the

>>Road" came out and Jack was suddenly famous, he got the acting bug and

>>enrolled in the famous Lee Strassberg school of acting, which Monroe

>>attended.

>>

>>The book indeed says that he did know or at least was acquainted with

>>Marilyn Monroe.  Maybe it would have been a good match, a beautiful woman

>>who liked to drink as much as Jack did.

>>

>>But more likely it was just a one-night stand I s'pose.

>

>

>Did anyone ever read the book....Something about Cowboys in the title (sorry

>I can't be more vague)....there was a movie made with Uma Thurman as the

>leading gal who had these enormous thumbs.  But anyway....of what I read of

>the book, I distinctly remember how references were made in the story to the

>leading character's brief affair with Jack Kerouac, something about how

>they met hitchhiking...pretty funny.  This post reminded me of that book.

>

>Diane.

>

>--

>"This is Beat.  Live your lives out?  Naw, _love_ your lives out!"

>                                                        --Jack Kerouac

>Diane Marie Homza

>ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 19:59:15 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: The Beat Movement Was A Failure

In-Reply-To:  <yam7285.2554.4406896@pac.com.au>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 03:11 PM 12/12/97 +1000, John Pullicino wrote:

>what was a failure was the ersatz madisonavenue/timemagazine conscription

>of the 'beat movement' - it failed to hear to respect and to understand the

>new voices that spoke into the hollow void left by the wartime

>propagandahowl when the boys came home, and it failed to confront its own

>postwar meaningless chromecar cocktail and cookingmachine suburban

>imperative of 'time to have babies again - we beat the fuckers'

>

>

>

>--

>bye for now,

>j o h n  P

>

>

We did indeed and George Will is very angry about it!

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 20:03:32 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: even cow girls get the blues

In-Reply-To:  <199712121101.GAA01183@pike.sover.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 05:59 AM 12/12/97 +0000, Marie Countryman wrote:

>> tom robbins wrote it i believe.

>

>mc

>

>

No, it was Easy Rollins!

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 20:03:34 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Jack and Marilyn Monroe?

In-Reply-To:  <3ab66b91.34912c68@aol.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 07:21 AM 12/12/97 EST, DCardKJHS wrote:

>In a message dated 97-12-12 00:15:06 EST, you write:

>

><<

> _Even Cowgirls Get The Blues_ - Tom Robbins

>

> (cousin of Tony Robbins - self help guru to the stars) {;^>

>

> Mike >>

>

>This is a rib, right?!?  Say it isn't so!  Please.

>Dennis

>

>

 

They're brothers.

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 20:07:45 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: redemption

In-Reply-To:  <3490F44B.74F6@together.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 12:22 AM 12/12/97 -0800, Diane Carter wrote:

>> RACE wrote:

>

> - - - - - and i could go on and preach a sermon about

>> satisfaction and redemption and how one person's redemption is another

>> person's hell and my satisfaction may make you puke but that's ok cuz

>> it

>> ain't your trip it's mine and on and on and on -- BUT ....

>

>I don't think redemption and satisfaction in life need necessarily to be

>confused.  Kerouac did write things that were hilarious, he wrote about

>"living" life, he wrote about enjoying the simplicity of life.  He could

>find a great deal of satisfaction in little things, a can of pork and

>beans,  loving his cat, and even a good "high."  To say that he also was

>involved in an underlying spiritual search doesn't deny any of his good

>moments.  We've talked before here about epiphany in his works.  In my

>mind one can fully experience the high and low moments in life without

>needing or finding redemption.  Sometimes in reading Kerouac it is as if

>he expects a key to the mystery of life to be handed to him and that he

>finds the deeper he looks at both Catholicism and Eastern religions he is

>no closer to finding the key. The need for redemption is also something

>that comes from growing up in a Christian religion.  What I think is at

>the heart of Kerouac's work is: What do all the good moments and bad

>moments of life mean in the face of death? Why do we live only to die?

>And that is the basis for the comedy and tragedy that are equal parts of

>life, and he writes a good deal about both of them?

>DC

>

>

 

Please, no philosophy, just the facts!

 

Gradgrind

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 22:41:24 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: redemption

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 08:07 PM 12/12/97 -0500, mike rice wrote:

 

>At 12:22 AM 12/12/97 -0800, Diane Carter wrote:

 

>>Sometimes in reading Kerouac it is as if

>>he expects a key to the mystery of life to be

>>handed to him and that he finds the deeper he

>>looks at both Catholicism and Eastern religions

>>he is no closer to finding the key.

>>The need for redemption is also something

>>that comes from growing up in a Christian religion.

>>What I think is at the heart of Kerouac's work is:

>>What do all the good moments and bad moments of life

>>mean in the face of death? Why do we live only to die?

>>And that is the basis for the comedy and tragedy that

>>are equal parts of

>>life, and he writes a good deal about both of them?

>>DC

>

>Please, no philosophy, just the facts!

>

>Gradgrind

 

"The great epochs of our life come when we gain the

courage to rechristen our evil as what is best in us."

 

>From _Beyond Good And Evil _ by Friedrich Nietzsche

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 22:19:11 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

M. Cakebread wrote:

>

> At 08:07 PM 12/12/97 -0500, mike rice wrote:

>

> >At 12:22 AM 12/12/97 -0800, Diane Carter wrote:

>

> >>Sometimes in reading Kerouac it is as if

> >>he expects a key to the mystery of life to be

> >>handed to him and that he finds the deeper he

> >>looks at both Catholicism and Eastern religions

> >>he is no closer to finding the key.

> >>The need for redemption is also something

> >>that comes from growing up in a Christian religion.

> >>What I think is at the heart of Kerouac's work is:

> >>What do all the good moments and bad moments of life

> >>mean in the face of death? Why do we live only to die?

> >>And that is the basis for the comedy and tragedy that

> >>are equal parts of

> >>life, and he writes a good deal about both of them?

> >>DC

> >

> >Please, no philosophy, just the facts!

> >

> >Gradgrind

>

> "The great epochs of our life come when we gain the

> courage to rechristen our evil as what is best in us."

>

> >From _Beyond Good And Evil _ by Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"What I like about my madness is that it has protected me from the very

beginning against the charms of the 'elite': never have i thought that i

was the happy possessor of a 'talent'; my sole concern has been to save

myself -- nothing in my hands, nothing up my sleeve -- by work and

faith.  As a result, my pure choice did not raise me above anyone.

Without equipment, without tools, I set all of me to work in order to

save all of me.  If i relegate impossible Salvation to the proproom,

what remains?  A whole man, composed of all men and as good as all of

them and no better than any."

 

from THE WORDS by Jean-Paul Sartre

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 21:11:14 -0800

Reply-To:     gbarker@thegrid.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Anne <gbarker@THEGRID.NET>

Subject:      Re: Even Cowgirls Get the Blues

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: multipart/alternative;

              boundary="------------7F7586EA97A437F58841E910"

 

--------------7F7586EA97A437F58841E910

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

 x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

 

 

GTL1951 wrote:

 

> God! I tried reading that book too! the back blurb about Kerouac got me to buy

> it- what a waste of bucks! Tom Robbins is no writer- at least not a serious

> one- much less even a funny one. now Uma Thurman with big thumbs sounds

> interesting.

>                                                   Gene

 

  this is an abomination!  My favorite author in the universe is Tom Robbins;

 his

books are rich with imagination and beautiful philosophy.  Reading this note

broke my heart for a moment, but I have to admit that Cowgirls is not the best

representation of Robbins' work.  Actually, Robbins is very similar in choice of

themes to Vonnegut, who I know several of the list members greatly appreciate.

So sad, so sad, Tom Robbins never gets any respect as a serious writer.  Perhaps

he is the Kerouac of his generation...but let's not get into that discussion

again.

  *Anne*

 

--------------7F7586EA97A437F58841E910

Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

<HTML>

&nbsp;

 

<P>GTL1951 wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>God! I tried reading that book too! the back blurb

about Kerouac got me to buy

<BR>it- what a waste of bucks! Tom Robbins is no writer- at least not a

serious

<BR>one- much less even a funny one. now Uma Thurman with big thumbs sounds

<BR>interesting.

<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs

 p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp

 ;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

Gene</BLOCKQUOTE>

&nbsp; this is an abomination!&nbsp; My favorite author in the universe

is Tom Robbins; his books are rich with imagination and beautiful

 philosophy.&nbsp;

Reading this note broke my heart for a moment, but I have to admit that

<U>Cowgirls</U> is not the best representation of Robbins' work.&nbsp;

Actually, Robbins is very similar in choice of themes to Vonnegut, who

I know several of the list members greatly appreciate.&nbsp; So sad, so

sad, Tom Robbins never gets any respect as a serious writer.&nbsp; Perhaps

he is the Kerouac of his generation...but let's not get into that discussion

again.

<BR>&nbsp; *Anne*</HTML>

 

--------------7F7586EA97A437F58841E910--

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 00:54:35 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: redemption

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 10:19 PM 12/12/97 -0600, david rhaesa wrote:

>M. Cakebread wrote:

 

>> "The great epochs of our life come when we gain the

>> courage to rechristen our evil as what is best in us."

>>

>> >From _Beyond Good And Evil _ by Friedrich Nietzsche

>

>"What I like about my madness is that it has protected me from the very

>beginning against the charms of the 'elite': never have i thought that i

>was the happy possessor of a 'talent'; my sole concern has been to save

>myself -- nothing in my hands, nothing up my sleeve -- by work and

>faith.  As a result, my pure choice did not raise me above anyone.

>Without equipment, without tools, I set all of me to work in order to

>save all of me.  If i relegate impossible Salvation to the proproom,

>what remains?  A whole man, composed of all men and as good as all of

>them and no better than any."

>

>from THE WORDS by Jean-Paul Sartre

 

"The consequences of our actions take hold of us,

quite indifferent to our claim that meanwhile we

have 'improved.' "

 

>From _Beyond Good And Evil_ by Friedrich Nietzsche

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 23:57:44 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

M. Cakebread wrote:

>

> At 10:19 PM 12/12/97 -0600, david rhaesa wrote:

> >M. Cakebread wrote:

>

> >> "The great epochs of our life come when we gain the

> >> courage to rechristen our evil as what is best in us."

> >>

> >> >From _Beyond Good And Evil _ by Friedrich Nietzsche

> >

> >"What I like about my madness is that it has protected me from the very

> >beginning against the charms of the 'elite': never have i thought that i

> >was the happy possessor of a 'talent'; my sole concern has been to save

> >myself -- nothing in my hands, nothing up my sleeve -- by work and

> >faith.  As a result, my pure choice did not raise me above anyone.

> >Without equipment, without tools, I set all of me to work in order to

> >save all of me.  If i relegate impossible Salvation to the proproom,

> >what remains?  A whole man, composed of all men and as good as all of

> >them and no better than any."

> >

> >from THE WORDS by Jean-Paul Sartre

>

> "The consequences of our actions take hold of us,

> quite indifferent to our claim that meanwhile we

> have 'improved.' "

>

> >From _Beyond Good And Evil_ by Friedrich Nietzsche

 

hee hee hee

 

"Calculative thinking is not meditative thinking, not thinking which

contemplates the meaning which reigns in everything that is."

 

from Discourse on Thinking by Martin Heidegger

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:40:46 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Slawomir Mrozek idies regues.

In-Reply-To:  <BEAT-L%1997121123355967@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Slon

Wydawnictwo Literackie

Krakow

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:43:47 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      http://wings.buffalo.edu/epc/authors/glazier/prose/creeley_70.h

              tml

In-Reply-To:  <BEAT-L%1997121123355967@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

the slave andim'justnowreading Dutchman by LeRoi Jones

do anyone here lookback Tommy Smith and John Carlos?

i saw Amiri Baraka televised by tvz0ne declaming

                                X is black

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 09:40:57 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: redemption/why not compassion

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

i prefer to meditate upon compassion for others vs redemption.

i don't feel i have a damned thing that i've done in this world to repent or

be redeemed from.

i have a simple credo:

be kind, learn, listen to others

have compassion for self and others.

mc

 

RACE --- wrote:

 

> M. Cakebread wrote:

> >

> > At 10:19 PM 12/12/97 -0600, david rhaesa wrote:

> > >M. Cakebread wrote:

> >

> > >> "The great epochs of our life come when we gain the

> > >> courage to rechristen our evil as what is best in us."

> > >>

> > >> >From _Beyond Good And Evil _ by Friedrich Nietzsche

> > >

> > >"What I like about my madness is that it has protected me from the very

> > >beginning against the charms of the 'elite': never have i thought that i

> > >was the happy possessor of a 'talent'; my sole concern has been to save

> > >myself -- nothing in my hands, nothing up my sleeve -- by work and

> > >faith.  As a result, my pure choice did not raise me above anyone.

> > >Without equipment, without tools, I set all of me to work in order to

> > >save all of me.  If i relegate impossible Salvation to the proproom,

> > >what remains?  A whole man, composed of all men and as good as all of

> > >them and no better than any."

> > >

> > >from THE WORDS by Jean-Paul Sartre

> >

> > "The consequences of our actions take hold of us,

> > quite indifferent to our claim that meanwhile we

> > have 'improved.' "

> >

> > >From _Beyond Good And Evil_ by Friedrich Nietzsche

>

> hee hee hee

>

> "Calculative thinking is not meditative thinking, not thinking which

> contemplates the meaning which reigns in everything that is."

>

> from Discourse on Thinking by Martin Heidegger

>

> david rhaesa

> salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 11:07:14 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Ginsberg

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

does anyone know if it is possible to get a copy of the court transcripts of

ginsberg defending himself in court concerning freedom of speech?

 

 

brian

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 17:12:53 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      (FWD-excerpt from)Was Timothy Leary a CIA Agent?

In-Reply-To:  <BEAT-L%1997121123355967@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 03:00:13 -0800

>From: bofus? <bofus@mindspring.com>

>1968: While other New-Left leaders preach violent overthrow of the U.S.

>Government and creation of a Marxist dictatorship, Leary urges instead a

>nonviolent, drug-oriented "hippie capitalism," an artsy-craftsy,

>decentralized, libertarian sort of entrepeneurship that will also soon

>find its expression in the culture of the Grateful Dead. While Leary's

>position does constitute a rejection of the corporate world, it also

>embraces private property and the profit motive. Because of this, the

>Marxist Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) denounces Leary and his

>noncommunist followers for "limiting the revolution." The Progressive

>Labor Party (PLP), a Maoist "Old Left" group, goes so far as to claim

>that Leary is a CIA agent. But the PLP is accusing everyone it disgarees

>with of being CIA.

>

>1969: Leary critics will eventually point with suspicion to his close

>connections during this time to an international LSD-smuggling cartel,

>the Brotherhood of Eternal Love, which is rumored to be a CIA front. The

>Brotherhood is controlled by Ronald Stark, whom an Italian High Court

>will later conclude has been a CIA agent since 1960, and the

>Brotherhood's funds are channeled through Castle Bank in the Bahamas, a

>known CIA "proprietary." For two years Leary lives at Brotherhood

>headquarters, located on a ranch in Laguna Beach. During this period,

>the Brotherhood corners the U.S. market on LSD and begins distributing

>only one variety of the drug, "Orange Sunshine." Stark says he plans to

>distribute the product to CIA-backed guerillas fighting Chinese

>occupation; he reportedly knows a high-placed Tibetan close to the Dalai

>Lama, and wants to provide enough LSD to dose all Chinese troops in

>Tibet. In the U.S., meanwhile, Stark provides enough Orange Sunshine to

>dose the hippie culture and radical left many times over. This is the

>"bad acid" on which Charles Manson's followers murder Sharon Tate, and

>on which Hell's Angels stab to death a black man during a concert by the

>Rolling Stones. The Summer of Love has been supplanted by a Season of

>Hate. Because of this, many countercultural insiders -- including

>William S. Burroughs, White Panther leader John Sinclair, and Merry

>Prankster Ken Kesey -- will eventually entertain the theory that Stark,

>Leary, and Orange Sunshine are all part of CIA plot to discredit and

>neutralize the radical left. According to former radicals Martin Lee and

>Bruce Shalin, widespread use of Orange Sunshine "contributed

>significantly to the demise of the New Left, for it heightened the

>metabolism of the body politic and accelerated all the changes going

>on... In its hyped-up condition, the New Left burned itself out."

>

>http://home.dti.net/lawserv/leary.html

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 11:55:13 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: (FWD-excerpt from)Was Timothy Leary a CIA Agent?

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

I find it hard to believe that Father Tim had any involvment with such a bogus

group as the CIA! but i have learned also over the years that anything is

possible. on a more persoanl note- I had many fine experiences on "Orange

Sunshine" and cannot honestly say that it destroyed my involvment with the

Liberal movement- the bull crap developed and handed down by the movement did

it for me!

                                           Gene

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 11:45:49 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: redemption/why not compassion

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

I heartily endorse your credo MC- compassion will be the saving grace of this

world-especially if man can rise above false- or empty compassion- as is

preached by so many false people!

                                       Gene

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:38:47 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bigsurs4me <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Ginsberg

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

If your speaking of the Howl Trail I know I've seen excerpts of it in the

past, but I'm not sure if the complete transcript is available.  It should be

accessable as it is a public record, albeit 40 years old.  From what I

remember Ginsberg wasn't in attendance at the trial itself... he was in

Tangier living with Burroughs at that time.  It was really Ferlinghetti and

City Lights along with Shigeyoshi Murao who happened to be at the cash

register when the SFPD officers bought the book.

 

Jerry Cimino

Fog City

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:51:46 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: (FWD-excerpt from)Was Timothy Leary a CIA Agent?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

for best or most complete accounts, ACID DREAMS: the complete social history of

lds: the cia the sixties, and beyond by martin a lee& bruce shlain

best sociological source: STORMING HEAVEN; lsd and the american dream, jay

stevens.

best fun: still is electric acid kool aide test

i hope to have some copywrited (to the tale teller) tales i hope i hope some day

more than less.

sitting on my hands

that's me in the corner,

hoping

mc

 

GTL1951 wrote:

 

> I find it hard to believe that Father Tim had any involvment with such a bogus

> group as the CIA! but i have learned also over the years that anything is

> possible. on a more persoanl note- I had many fine experiences on "Orange

> Sunshine" and cannot honestly say that it destroyed my involvment with the

> Liberal movement- the bull crap developed and handed down by the movement did

> it for me!

>                                            Gene

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:59:45 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Ginsberg

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

How trail: east to west coast; west to east; mph benezedrin refills tokay, and

and pit stops called by driver.

mc

Bigsurs4me wrote:

 

> If your speaking of the Howl Trail I know I've seen excerpts of it in the

> past, but I'm not sure if the complete transcript is available.  It should be

> accessable as it is a public record, albeit 40 years old.  From what I

> remember Ginsberg wasn't in attendance at the trial itself... he was in

> Tangier living with Burroughs at that time.  It was really Ferlinghetti and

> City Lights along with Shigeyoshi Murao who happened to be at the cash

> register when the SFPD officers bought the book.

>

> Jerry Cimino

> Fog City

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:01:03 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Ginsberg/madame yr ignorance

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

howl trail,

she wrote as an addendum,

to what could have been

a slightly

amusing post

mc

 

Bigsurs4me wrote:

 

> If your speaking of the Howl Trail I know I've seen excerpts of it in the

> past, but I'm not sure if the complete transcript is available.  It should be

> accessable as it is a public record, albeit 40 years old.  From what I

> remember Ginsberg wasn't in attendance at the trial itself... he was in

> Tangier living with Burroughs at that time.  It was really Ferlinghetti and

> City Lights along with Shigeyoshi Murao who happened to be at the cash

> register when the SFPD officers bought the book.

>

> Jerry Cimino

> Fog City

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:17:20 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bigsurs4me <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Ginsberg

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

Marie,

 

Maybe we should call it the "Hallelujah Trail"?!?

 

Decision by Judge Clayton Horn...  film at eleven...

 

 

Jerry Cimino

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 15:19:13 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      the day before the day before i leave

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

yeeehhhhaaaa.

off to california with stardust and moombeams in myne eyes...

3 days no none stop, except in chicago

hurtling onward, hopefully during

sun hours through the rockies

it's an

adventure

never dared dream of

wahoooooooo!!!!!!!

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:51:11 -0600

Reply-To:     cawilkie@comic.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>

Subject:      Robbins vs. Beats

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> Subject:

>         Even Cowgirls Get the Blues

>   Date:

>         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:23:00 -0800

>   From:

>         Eric Lytle <e.lytle@CED.UTAH.EDU>

>

>

> > Did anyone ever read the book....Something about Cowboys in the title

> > (sorry

> > I can't be more vague)....there was a movie made with Uma Thurman as

> > the

> > leading gal who had these enormous thumbs.  But anyway....of what I

> > read of

> > the book, I distinctly remember how references were made in the story

> > to the

> > leading character's brief affair with Jack Kerouac, something about

> > how

> > they met hitchhiking...pretty funny.  This post reminded me of that

> > book.

> >

> > Diane.

> >

>

>    Such irony.  An old girlfriend gave me this book,  saying that it was

> better than all those Kerouac books I was reading.  I was never able to

> get into it,  and even now it sits in my books-started stack.  Maybe

> I'll read on until she meets JK.  I don't know how many Robbins fans

> there are on this list,  but we might be due for a discussion here.  Any

> Robbins readers up for a comparison vs. the Beats?

>

> -E

 

 

 

No comparison, dude--Robbins--Humour sarcasm and witticisms,

                     Beats--sarcasm and witticisms, with a dash of

                            humour--

 

 

wait, let me think on this some more....

 

You really should read "Even Cowgirls get the Blues"  but i believe his

peice de resistance to be "Skinny Legs and All."  Do read any and all

books by Robbins, it tends to make you a richer human being....Don't get

put off by his reference to Kerouac in "Cowgirls", I think he did that

more to pay homage than to poke fun.  It does take awhile to get into a

Robbins novel, but once there you find you can't put them down...

 

 

cathy

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 15:00:02 -0600

Reply-To:     cawilkie@comic.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>

Subject:      two words

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

>

> > And that is the basis for the comedy and tragedy that are equal parts of

> > life, and he writes a good deal about both of them?

>

> but the legend as a whole he "says" is a comedy.  of course, i guess the

> tragedy could be him thinking comedy in tragedy and then someone might

> find the comic in that and it could go on and on and on.....

>

> david rhaesa

> salina, Kansas

>

> p.s.  called some receptionist an idiot over the phone but finally got a

> doctor's appointment for my cold :)

 

 

 

 

David:

 

two words--Shakespearean Tragedies

 

two more words--Zinc Lozenges.

 

cathy

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 15:05:22 -0600

Reply-To:     cawilkie@comic.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>

Subject:      MORE ON ROBBINS VS. BEATS

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

>

> Subject:

>         Re: Even Cowgirls Get the Blues

>   Date:

>         Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:10:00 EST

>   From:

>         GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>

>

>

> God! I tried reading that book too! the back blurb about Kerouac got me to buy

> it- what a waste of bucks! Tom Robbins is no writer- at least not a serious

> one- much less even a funny one. now Uma Thurman with big thumbs sounds

> interesting.

>                                                   Gene

 

 

 

P.S.--oH please oh please if you have not seen the movie        DO NOT SEE IT

I REPEAT DO NOT SEE IT!!!!!!

 

Even tho Gus Van Sant directed it and Uma Thurman starred--even she

could not save that sorry piece of cinema!@!!!!!!

 

 

cathy

 

READ THE BOOK READ THE BOOK READ THE BOOK READ THE BOOK READ THE BOOK

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 15:13:57 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>

Subject:      Re: Robbins vs. Beats

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

I like Tom Robbins a lot, even though I think he has a lot of trouble

ending his books.  The first two ("Another Roadside Attraction" and "Even

Cowgirls Get The Blues") really captured me, but most of his subsequent

novels always left me hanging.  They would build so beautifully and

excitingly, but leave me feeling unsatisfied and unsated in the end.  Thus

I was doubly pleased with his latest, "Half Asleep In Frog Pajamas," which

really did come through for me in the final stretch.

 

Just MHO.

 

Jym

 

Cathy Wilkie wrote:

 

> No comparison, dude--Robbins--Humour sarcasm and witticisms,

>                      Beats--sarcasm and witticisms, with a dash of

>                             humour--

>

>

> wait, let me think on this some more....

>

> You really should read "Even Cowgirls get the Blues"  but i believe his

> peice de resistance to be "Skinny Legs and All."  Do read any and all

> books by Robbins, it tends to make you a richer human being....Don't get

> put off by his reference to Kerouac in "Cowgirls", I think he did that

> more to pay homage than to poke fun.  It does take awhile to get into a

> Robbins novel, but once there you find you can't put them down...

>

>

> cathy

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 16:33:55 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Ginsberg

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Brian,

 

        My wife Elizabeth was in Vancouver and Seattle this past summer and

her homecoming present for me was "Allen Ginsberg: Howl" edited by Barry

Miles and published by Harper Perrenial; large format paperback which

includes facsimile versions of 'Howl' as well as various contemporaneous

correspondence and material about the 'legal skirmishes'. Not transcripts as

such, but does include excerpts of the decision and an appebdix called the

Legal History of Howl.

 

        Antoine

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never

cease to be amused."

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 16:37:39 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         M84M79 <M84M79@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: the day before the day before i leave

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

marie,

have a lovely trip,

and make sure to tell us all about it when you return.

i'm jealous,

there's nothing better than the sound of the engine

the windows down

and your home behind you....

muchos carinos, take care

~~marlene

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 16:55:23 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         DCardKJHS <DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Slawomir Mrozek idies regues.

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

Gort, Klaatu nicto borada!

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 16:56:58 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         DCardKJHS <DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Slawomir Mrozek idies regues.

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

In a message dated 97-12-13 09:30:29 EST, you write:

 

<<

 Slon

 Wydawnictwo Literackie

 Krakow

  >>

Gort, Klaatu nicto borada!

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 22:56:05 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: (FWD-excerpt from)Was Timothy Leary a CIA Agent?

In-Reply-To:  <7802273d.3492bdfd@aol.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

hello,

the agent Ronald Stark is a notorius agent involved in

the dark conspirancy against the democracy here in italy (70s'-80s')

connected with neo-nazis and neo-fascists (operation Stay Behind)

if there's any connection with Tim Leary it's really a

very dangerous bang to the public image of the countercultural

leader. I hope, of course, it's not true but IF this is the fact

it's very serious both on the side #1 drug spread and #2 nazism against

the leftism.

 

Rinaldo.

--------

 

At 11.55 13/12/97 EST, Gene wrote:

>I find it hard to believe that Father Tim had any involvment with such a

bogus

>group as the CIA! but i have learned also over the years that anything is

>possible. on a more persoanl note- I had many fine experiences on "Orange

>Sunshine" and cannot honestly say that it destroyed my involvment with the

>Liberal movement- the bull crap developed and handed down by the movement did

>it for me!

>                                           Gene

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 22:59:22 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Slawomir Mrozek idies regues.

In-Reply-To:  <4bfd8a2e.3493044d@aol.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

somebody wrote:

>Gort, Klaatu nicto borada!

>

>

Slawomir Mrozek, is a player who wrote a very

beautiful collected novel called "the elephant".

 

Rinaldo.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 23:02:12 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Slawomir Mrozek idies regues.

In-Reply-To:  <964e39b0.349304ac@aol.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 16.56 13/12/97 EST, you wrote:

>In a message dated 97-12-13 09:30:29 EST, you write:

>

><<

> Slon

> Wydawnictwo Literackie

> Krakow

>  >>

>Gort, Klaatu nicto borada!

>

i hope you take seriously this pun as

slawomir is a serious writer and play writer

from polonia. this is all. have a look at

him works they are very fine and subersive

against every establishment in the eastern

lands.

 

Rinaldo.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 17:05:09 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         DCardKJHS <DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Ginsberg

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

In a message dated 97-12-13 11:44:46 EST, you write:

 

<< does anyone know if it is possible to get a copy of the court transcripts

of

 ginsberg defending himself in court concerning freedom of speech?

 

 

 brian

  >>

Significant portions are reprinted in Horn on Howl, Evergreen Review, V1. #4,

pgs.145-158...this has been anthologized in several places.  I found it today

in A Casebook on the Beat. edited by Thomas Parkinson.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 16:18:48 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      mystic fire videos at the library

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

just checked out two videos at the library:

 

Commissioner of Sewers -- William S. Burroughs

 

and

 

Kerouac by Antonelli

 

 

anybody seen these already -- and are they worth watching?

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:58:06 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael R. Brown" <foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>

Subject:      Re: mystic fire videos at the library

In-Reply-To:  <349309C8.4848@midusa.net>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, RACE --- wrote:

 

> Commissioner of Sewers -- William S. Burroughs

 

Do report back, Agent.

 

 

 

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

  Michael R. Brown                        foosi@global.california.com

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

 

 

                Calling unrequested, undesired email "Spam"

                is an insult to the meat product.

                And that's saying something.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 17:02:48 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: mystic fire videos at the library

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Michael R. Brown wrote:

>

> On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, RACE --- wrote:

>

> > Commissioner of Sewers -- William S. Burroughs

>

> Do report back, Agent.

>

 

"K9 K9"

"shift coordinate points"

 

gonna watch it later

 

mr. webster

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 18:15:32 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Subject:      redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

There is a Don Williams song written by Bob McDill called Good Old Boys

Like Me.  If you ain't ever heard it, you ought too.  My favorite lines

talk about the expectation being discussed in this thread.  They go

something like this:

 

 

> Nothing makes a sound in the night like the wind does,

> But you ain't afraid if you're washed in the blood like I was.

> The smell of cave jasmine through the window screen,

> John R and the Wolfman kept me company,

> By the light of the radio by my bed,

> With Thomas Wolfe whispering in my head.

>

 

So, I figure that if you are washed in the blood, grew up listening to

John R and the Wolfman, and read Thomas Wolfe/Jack Kerouac, then you got

a shot at redemption, cause that's what all that's about.  And how about

the chorus, it asks the question:

 

 

> Chorus

> I can still hear the the soft Southern winds in the live oak trees,

> And those Williams boys still mean a lot to me, Hank and Tennessee.

> I guess we're all gonna be what we're gonna be.

> So what'll you do with Good old boys like me.

>

So, I figure that's redemption:  Wind (Nature), Washed in the Blood

(Spiritual Rebirth), John R, Wolfman, Thomas Wolfe, Tennessee Williams,

and Hank Williams, with the wind in the Live Oak trees and a big old

full moon coming up.  That will just about do it!

 

Praise the Lord, can I get a witness!!!!!!!!!!!

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 18:17:56 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         DCardKJHS <DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: mystic fire videos at the library

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

The Antonelli film is pretty good, lotsa footage of Jack and some scenes

filmed docu-drama style with an actor namedJack Coulter playing Kerouac.  Good

jazz soundtrack.  Haven't seen the Burroughs film...let us know about it.

Your reactions are always worth reading.

Dennis

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 18:25:51 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Subject:      Jesus/Teacher/Compassion

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

One of the main reasons there have been very few Christians in the

history of this cult is the difficulties of the teachings of Jesus

(Joshua) The Christ.  "Love your neighbor AS you love yourself."  I

think that was what MC said in different words.  And what Jack ascribed

to do.  He learned he was too selfish and could not do it.  He wanted to

be Mother Theresa.  Thank God he wasn't.  Too bad it ate him alive.

 

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 15:57:03 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Slawomir Mrozek idies regues.

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>Gort, Klaatu nicto borada!

 

 

yeah and ringo starr and calling occupants of interplanetary craft

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 18:55:08 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: redemption

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

> and Hank Williams, with the wind in the Live Oak trees and a big old

> full moon coming up.  That will just about do it!

>

that's a bad moon rising though - be careful of that trickster old moon.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 20:21:30 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         NICO 88 <NICO88@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      some del dharma@ the St.Marks Poetry Project

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

                bouna sera a tutti, come stanno loro?

i realize you probably had some threads whisping around last week on this

subject but i just re-subscribed to the list today and wondered about the

ST.MARKS CELEBRATION of Some Of The Dharma last week.  did any of you NYers

go? *how was it??*  they, at the poetry project, seem to have some thing

against people who work or go to school, that is, they always hold their major

events on the most remote nights of the week and it is surely frustrating.

allora,   if anyone gets a chance, im dying (not really) to hear about it, so

i'd appreciate any mail, on- or off- list (again, im assuming you've all

talked about it some already.)    tante grazie!!!

                             -- Ginny Browne.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 21:05:26 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         DawnDR <DawnDR@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: (FWD-excerpt from)Was Timothy Leary a CIA Agent?

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

I have to admit that I, too, would be disappointed in Leary --- but, then, I

was disappointed in myself and others when  I learned nearly 20 years after

the fact that I and anyone else involved with the National Student Association

(NSA) of the '60s and early '70s was involved with the CIA.  NSA was funded by

and used by the CIA to further its own causes.

 

Dawn

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Dec 1997 22:13:34 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Cassady? :)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Just found out tonight that i've got kinfolk named Cassady in Canoga

Park California.  Wonder if they're Beat? :)

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Dec 1997 00:14:29 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Ginsberg

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

In a message dated 97-12-13 18:20:00 EST, you write:

 

<< Significant portions are reprinted in Horn on Howl, Evergreen Review, V1.

#4,

 pgs.145-158...this has been anthologized in several places.  I found it today

 in A Casebook on the Beat. edited by Thomas Parkinson. >>

 

 

thank you ever so much

brian

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Dec 1997 00:15:46 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Ginsberg

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

In a message dated 97-12-13 17:06:39 EST, you write:

 

<<   My wife Elizabeth was in Vancouver and Seattle this past summer and

 her homecoming present for me was "Allen Ginsberg: Howl" edited by Barry

 Miles and published by Harper Perrenial; large format paperback which

 includes facsimile versions of 'Howl' as well as various contemporaneous

 correspondence and material about the 'legal skirmishes'. Not transcripts as

 such, but does include excerpts of the decision and an appebdix called the

 Legal History of Howl. >>

 

 

thank you very much as well

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Dec 1997 12:29:55 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Slawomir Mrozek idies regues.

In-Reply-To:  <v01510100b0b8617a07d8@[128.125.224.94]>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>>Gort, Klaatu nicto borada!

>

>

>yeah and ringo starr and calling occupants of interplanetary craft

>

>

        Cellografia

 

        out of this planet

        there's the Slon

 

        Zamiatin,

        Ilf,

        Petrov

 

        Borzecin 1930

 

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Dec 1997 12:28:33 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      12 Mellow Hopes of Paradise

In-Reply-To:  <964e39b0.349304ac@aol.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

amici, a simple question: in the "L'angelo caduto"

(the italian translation of "Angelheaded Hipster")

at page 205 there's a photo titled "La conferenza

dell'addormentato" is this photo in the original

Turner's book? i noticed the "L'angelo caduto"

has the bio of some beat performers just updated

to 1997, perhaps the italian editor has added something...

 

grazie e saluti,

rinaldo.

--------

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Dec 1997 06:08:30 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: mystic fire videos at the library

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

DCardKJHS wrote:

>

> The Antonelli film is pretty good, lotsa footage of Jack and some scenes

> filmed docu-drama style with an actor namedJack Coulter playing Kerouac.  Good

> jazz soundtrack.  Haven't seen the Burroughs film...let us know about it.

> Your reactions are always worth reading.

> Dennis

 

no fancy reactions.  Commissioner of Sewers has lots of clips of WSB

doing readings and i just enjoy such things to death -- many of them

would shift into background sort of videoclip things which i quite

frankly didn't pay that much attention to for i tended to stay fairly

focused on watching the old man do his stuff.  i thought the interviewer

was fairly weak - he had some fairly basic questions to ask and wasn't

prepared to improvise with the kind of follow-up questions that might

have been fascinating.  The answerer in my opinion had his usual

interesting angle in answering the questions (sometimes softballs thrown

up which he chose to foul off for fun!) but then i had to think i saw a

few synapses push through the forehead saying "who is this idiot

interviewer anyway?!?!" when the follow-ups didn't come.  but i imagine

it would be easy for any mortal to forget how to form basic sentences in

the presence of THE MAN.  probably worth seeing - but i'm a television

junkie so i'd probably like that Last Time I committed Suicide thing

everyone flames about....... :)

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Dec 1997 06:13:13 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      McClure's Marysville

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

so i've been doing some geneaological "research" for my family (my

method consists of randomly surfing around and when i find someone who

MIGHT be related somehow i send them an e-mail saying "I think we're

kin" and then usually find out that i was right and that they have all

kinds of information that i didn't know before.

 

soooo.... i decided i'd try a bit on my step-Dad's family and punched in

Marysville Kansas and pushed the magic buttons and whooosh-boom-pop out

of the vortex comes one of Levi's pages (i think) about McClure and the

mention of "born in Marysville Kansas" -- well i'd known something of

him being from Kansas but didn't realize Marysville.

 

Does anyone know much about the McClure roots in Marysville?  I'm

certain that there's no relation involved -- but Marysville is a rather

small little burg and some i thought perhaps some folks might know some

folks and whatnot.  What were McClure's parents names?

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Dec 1997 07:28:54 -0500

Reply-To:     blackj@bigmagic.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Al Aronowitz <blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>

Subject:      THE HOWL TRIAL

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Just thought I'd mention that Ferlinghetti talks about the Howl trial un

my Column 27 http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column27.html , my

interview with Lawrence almost 40 years ago.  Also has a few lines from

trial transcript.  Also in that column, interview with famed lawyer Jake

Ehrlich tells etymology of word FUCK.  --Al Aronowitz

--

***************************************

Al Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST

http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Dec 1997 08:34:50 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         DCardKJHS <DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: mystic fire videos at the library

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

In a message dated 97-12-14 07:41:47 EST, you write:

 

<<  probably worth seeing - but i'm a television

 junkie so i'd probably like that Last Time I committed Suicide thing

 everyone flames about....... :)

 

 david rhaesa

 salina, Kansas

 

  >>

David, please!  You know better than that.  I'm a TV head too...I watch, but I

don't necessarily like everything I see.  You SHOULD go ahead and rent that

godawful film just tp see what the fuss was about.  Truly worthless crap.  On

the other hand,

have you seen a lengthy filmed reading Bukowski did years ago where there is a

refrigerator onstage full of beer which Buk consumes as he reads?  I saw it

once maybe ten years ago...don't have the title...but I think you'd really

enjoy it.  Did you rent that Commish/Sewers?  I want to see it.

Anyone on the list familiar with that particular Bukowski film?  If memory

serves, it was filmed somewhere in San Francisco.  At the Fugazi, maybe?

Dennis

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Dec 1997 08:28:43 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: mystic fire videos at the library

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

DCardKJHS wrote:

>

> In a message dated 97-12-14 07:41:47 EST, you write:

>

> <<  probably worth seeing - but i'm a television

>  junkie so i'd probably like that Last Time I committed Suicide thing

>  everyone flames about....... :)

>

>  david rhaesa

>  salina, Kansas

>

>   >>

> David, please!  You know better than that.  I'm a TV head too...I watch, but I

> don't necessarily like everything I see.

 

I can't say I have much of a critical eye about such things.  I mostly

watch such matters for entertainment value -- and i'm a big fan of "BAD"

television precisely because it's stupid.

 

I'm well-trained in critical matters but am in pre-school as it were in

attempting to apply these notions to ordinary life and literature and

the arts.  I'm not certain that the same critical language and methods

can be easily transposed from non-fiction and non-literate <grin>

subject matters across the great divide as it were to the realm of

literature.  As i become exposed -- GRADUALLY -- to more of such STUFF

hopefully i'll see various pathways.

 

You SHOULD go ahead and rent that

> godawful film just tp see what the fuss was about.

 

I doubt seriously that i'll find it here.  In the event (as opposed to

IF - an old nation of islam friend spent a whole day on the differences

<grin>) that my move to Denver works out i'll have a much better chance.

 

Truly worthless crap.  On

> the other hand,

> have you seen a lengthy filmed reading Bukowski did years ago where there is a

> refrigerator onstage full of beer which Buk consumes as he reads?  I saw it

> once maybe ten years ago...don't have the title...but I think you'd really

> enjoy it.

 

I've only heard of Bukowski at this point -- and might have heard enough

to bluff in a cocktail party on a campus somewhere --- but can't say i

know much of anything about him and definitely haven't seen the one

you're talking about.

 

Did you rent that Commish/Sewers?  I want to see it.

 

The local library had it.  I was quite surprised.  It must have been a

recent purchase on their part.  I had a conversation about WSB with one

of the big shot librarians shortly after his death and maybe it had a

slight effect on purchasing decisions.  The nice thing about the library

is it falls into the kind of videos that one checks out like a book FOR

A MONTH.

 

> Anyone on the list familiar with that particular Bukowski film?  If memory

> serves, it was filmed somewhere in San Francisco.  At the Fugazi, maybe?

> Dennis

 

david

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Dec 1997 10:55:03 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         M84M79 <M84M79@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: mystic fire videos at the library

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

In a message dated 97-12-14 08:40:25 EST, you write:

 

<< You SHOULD go ahead and rent that

 godawful film just tp see what the fuss was about.  Truly worthless crap.  On

 the other hand, >>

i don't want to start the argument again, but the film did have some redeeming

qualities. to tell you the truth, i hadn't read anything beat until after i

saw the film. maybe its just my perspective, but i liked it. there. enough

said. don't flame me, please.

~~marlene

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Dec 1997 10:57:41 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         M84M79 <M84M79@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: mystic fire videos at the library

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

In a message dated 97-12-14 10:37:05 EST, you write:

 

<< to bluff in a cocktail party on a campus somewhere  >>

 

 

cocktail parties on campus???!!! what school is this???

~~marlene

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Dec 1997 11:00:31 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      The Last Time I Committed Suicide...

In-Reply-To:  <d8f1a7b8.3493e07d@aol.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

I rented this movie last night and I enjoyed it but I have a question.

Keanu Reeve's character,Harry,...who was that supposed to be? And that guy

Ben? Who was that? I didn't recognize anyone from Beat lore in that movie

except for Neal and Joan.

~Nancy

PS Great soundtrack,though

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Dec 1997 11:13:13 -0500

Reply-To:     blackj@bigmagic.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Al Aronowitz <blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>

Subject:      12 DAYS OF CHRISTMAS

Comments: To: ducksquack@hotmail.com, frank@beacham.com, beacham@radiomail.net,

          bearlife@iAmerica.net, dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca,

          belile@earthlink.net, preparim@mbox301.swipnet.se,

          benjamin@creativeimagery.com, techsupport@bellatlantic.net,

          bigchief@bigmagic.com, vbippart@sover.net, flameon@mindspring.com,

          lew.blanck@usa.net, gracie456@aol.com, jablonk@pi.net,

          FDBBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Every Year, I used to send out holiday greetings to an

ever-growing

list  of friends, acquaintances and those I wished to know or to

stay in

touch with, a consequence of the fact that I'd been more or less

banished from the public prints by the scum bags I used to work

with and

for at the New York Post for no good reason.  Since I began

writing my

BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST column on the Internet, it's as if those

not

plugged into the Web no longer exist for me.  Besides, broke and

busier

as I continue to be, I don't have the funds for postage and

printing and

I don't have time to send out greetings by snail mail.  However,

last

Christmas, my good friend, David Kapralik, also known as Ilili,

sent me

a cybergreeting so unique that I now feel compelled to forward

it to all

on my Email list as part of my own greeting.  With all good

wishes for

the season, for the year and for the rest of your lives, here is

my

appropriated cybergreeting. --Love, Al Aronowitz

--

***************************************

Al Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST

http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj

 

 

Subject:

        12 Days Of Xmas

  Date:

        Wed, 25 Dec 1996 09:21:32 -1000

  From:

        iliili@maui.net (David Kapralik)

    To:

        blackj@mail.bigmagic.com

 

 

>

>(Make your e-mail screen as large as possible to ensure that

this design isn't

>forced to "wrap" at the end of a line.  That messes up the

design.)

>

 

 

>:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.

>

>       _______)    _______)   ,__)      ____,           ____,

>      (--||_, _   (--|      _ |   _    (--| \ _    ,   (--/ \

,_,

>        _|| |(/_    _|(_|_)(/_|\/(/_     _|_/(_|\|/_)_

\_/_|_

>       (    |__,   (                    (     ,__|         ,__|

>

>                   ____,,__)     ,__)

>                  (--/ `|_,,_' ,-|-,_,_, _  ,

>                    /   | || |/_)| | | |(_|/_)

>                    \__,  |__,   |__,

>

>

>

> On the Twelfth Day of Christmas, my true love gave to me:

> Twelve Drummers Drumming

>

>                   .-}        .-}        .-}

>                   |_|        |_|        |_|

>                   (_)        (_)  __    (_) .---.

>                   | \ .--.   | \.'  '.  | \/     \

>                   |\_|--o )  |\_|--o  ; |\_|--o   |

>                   |:| '--'   |:|'.__.'  |:|\     /

>                   |:|        |:|        |:| `---`

>                   |:|_       |:|_       |:|_

>               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>

>         .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.

>         |M|   |E|   |R|   |R|   |Y|   |X|   |M|   |A|   |S|

>         (_)   (_)   (_)   (_)   (_)   (_)   (_)   (_)   (_)

>        /\Y/\ /\Y/\ /\Y/\ /\Y/\ /\Y/\ /\Y/\ /\Y/\ /\Y/\ /\Y/\

>        [XXX] [XXX] [XXX] [XXX] [XXX] [XXX] [XXX] [XXX] [XXX]

>         |||   |||   |||   |||   |||   |||   |||   |||   |||

>         |||   |||   |||   |||   |||   |||   |||   |||   |||

>        _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_

>       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>

>

>

>Eleven Pipers Piping

>     _     _     _     _     _     _     _     _     _     _

_

>   ,/_)  ,/_)  ,/_)  ,/_)  ,/_)  ,/_)  ,/_)  ,/_)  ,/_)  ,/_)

,/_)

>    (")   (")   (")   (")   (")   (")   (")   (")   (")   (")

(")

>   /I\   /I\   /I\   /I\   /I\   /I\   /I\   /I\   /I\   /I\

/I\

>   (/^\) (/^\) (/^\) (/^\) (/^\) (/^\) (/^\) (/^\) (/^\) (/^\)

(/^\)

>    |||   |||   |||   |||   |||   |||   |||   |||   |||   |||

|||

>   |||   |||   |||   |||   |||   |||   |||   |||   |||   |||

|||

>   _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_

_|||_

>

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

>

>

> Ten Lords A-Leaping

>

>                               w              w

>                w              0__           \0__

>               \0__     w     /|_     w      /_

>               /_     __0/  '\/ /    \0_  '\/ /    w

>            '\/ /      /_       `    /_       `  __0/

>               `   `\/  \,         _\ \,         /_

>                 w                 `           `\/  \,

>                \0__      w                 w

>               /_        0__       w      \0__

>               _\ \,     /|_      __0/      |_

>              `        `\/  \,     /_      _\ \,

>                                `\/ /,    `

>

>

>

> Nine Ladies Dancing

>

>                                                        |~

>                     ()                       ()      0` |~

>              ()    _/)(\_           ()      _/)(\_      0`

>            _/)(\_   /^^\    ()    _/)(\_     /""\

>            /~~\   /____\ _/)(\_   /``\     /____\

>            /____\          /""\   /____\   ()

>                    ()     /____\         _/)(\_      ()

>          |~      _/)(\_           ()      /^^\     _/)(\_

>        0` |~     /``\          _/)(\_   /____\     /~~\

>           0`     /____\          /~~\              /____\

>                                 /____\

>

> Eight Maids A-Milking

>

>

>            __.----.       __.----.        __.----.

__.----.___

> (\(__)/)-'     (\(__)/)-'      (\(__)/)-'      (\(__)/)-'

;--`

>  `(uu)'      _  `(dd)'       _  `(gg)'       _  `(vv)'       _

|

>   )  (      (|)  )  (       (|)  )  (       (|)  )  (

(|)  |

>  (o  o)     8~8 (o  o)      8~8 (o  o)      8~8 (o  o)

8~8 ,/

>   `--'\_    (__).`--'\_    (__).'`--'\_    (__).'`--'\_

_(__)|

>        `|||~~/\||     `|||~~/\||      `|||~~/\||      `||~||

/\||

>

 

^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^

>

>          __.----.       __.----.        __.----.

__.----.___

> (\(__)/)-'      (\(__)/)-'     (\(__)/)-'     (\(__)/)-'

;--`

>  `(99)'       _  `(66)'      _  `(aa)'      _  `(ee)'        _

|

>   )  (       (|)  )  (      (|)  )  (      (|)  )  (

(|) |

>  (o  o)      8~8 (o  o)     8~8 (o  o)     8~8 (o  o)

8~8,/

>   `--'\_    (__).'`--'\_    (__).`--'\_    (__).`--'\_

_(__)|

>        `|||~~/\||      `|||~~/\||     `|||~~/\||     `||~||

/\||

>

 

^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^

>

>

> Seven swans A-Swimming

>

>        ___     ___     ___     ___     ___     ___     ___

>       /,_ \   /,_ \   /,_ \   /,_ \   /,_ \   /,_ \   /,_ \

_,

>       |/ )/   |/ )/   |/ )/   |/ )/   |/ )/   |/ )/   |/ )/

/ |

>         //  _/ |//  _/  //  _/  //  _/  //  _/  //  _/  //  _/

|

>       / (_/   / (_/   / (_/   / (_/   / (_/   / (_/   / (_/

_)

>       /   `   /   `   /   `   /   `   /   `   /   `   /   `

_/)

>      \  ~=-  \  ~=-  \  ~=-  \  ~=-  \  ~=-  \  ~=-  \  ~=-

/

>

 

~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~

>

>

>

> Six Geese A-Laying

>

>     __         __         __         __         __         __

>   >(' )      >(' )      >(' )      >(' )      >(' )      >(' )

>     )/   ,     )/   ,     )/   ,     )/   ,     )/   ,     )/

,

>    /(____/\   /(____/\   /(____/\   /(____/\   /(____/\

/(____/\

>  /        ) /        ) /        ) /        ) /        ) /

)

>   \ `  =~~/  \ `  =~~/  \ `  =~~/  \ `  =~~/  \ `  =~~/  \ `

=~~/

>    `---Y-' __ `---Y-' __ `---Y-' __ `---Y-' __ `---Y-' __

`---Y-' __

>       ~~' (__)   ~~' (__)   ~~' (__)   ~~' (__)   ~~' (__)

~~' (__)

>

>

> Five Golden Rings

>

>                     .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.

>                    ((_)) ((_)) ((_)) ((_)) ((_))

>                     '-'   '-'   '-'   '-'   '-'

>

>

>

> Four Calling Birds

>

>                  ___       ___       ___       ___

>                 ('v')     ('v')     ('v')     ('v')

>               ((   ))   ((   ))   ((   ))   ((   ))

>              -/-"---"---/-"---"---/-"---"---/-"---"--

>

>

>

> Three French Hens

>

>                     (\  }\   (\  }\   (\  }\

>                    (  \_('> (  \_('> (  \_('>

>                    (__(=_)  (__(=_)  (__(=_)

>                       -"=      -"=      -"=>

>

> Two Turtle Doves

>

>                            _      _

>

>                           <')_,/ <') ,/

>                           (_==/  (_==/

>                            ='-    ='-

>

>

>

> And a Partridge in a Pear Tree

>                             _

>                            ('>

>                            /))@@@@@

>                           /@"@@@@@()@

>                          @@()@@()@@@@

>                          @@@O@@@@()@@@

>                          @()@@\@@@()@@

>                           @()@||@@@@@

>                             @@||@@@

>                               ||

>                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>

>

 

.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.

>

>      __,_,_,___)          _______

>     (--| | |             (--/    ),_)       ,_)

>        | | |  _ ,_,_        |     |_ ,_' , _|_,_,_, _  ,

>      __| | | (/_| | (_|     |     | || |/_)_| | | |(_|/_)___,

>     (      |___,   ,__|     \____)  |__,          |__,

>

>                             |                         _...._

>                          \  _  /                    .::o:::::.

>                           (\o/)

.:::'''':o:.

>                       ---  / \  ---                :o:_

_:::

>                            >*<

`:}_>()<_{:'

>                           >0<@<                 @    `'//\\'`

@

>                          >>>@<<*              @ #     //  \\

# @

>                         >@>*<0<<<

<