=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 20:15:25 -0500
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From: mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: sliced writings ("Ciao,
Alice")
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19980109185526.006a8808@pop.gpnet.it>
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At
06:55 PM 1/9/98 +0100, you wrote:
>(...)
> Alice si mise in testa non soltanto di
vivere
>ma
di pubblicare quegli inediti senza toccare la collezione
>dei
quadri. Uso' tutto il denaro che le restava-non molto,
>dopo
la malattia di Gertrude-e accetto' di pubblicare su
>riviste
di grande tiratura articoli di cucina, a condizione
>che
le venissero retribuiti con generosita'. Gli articoli
>ebbero
un tale successo che un editore la invito' a comporre
>un
vero e proprio volume di ricette; e Alice lo scrisse un
>po'
sotto forma di pettegolezzo, facendosi mandare da tutti
>gli
amici le loro ricette preferite.
> Tremo al pensiero delle ricette che mi
convinse a mandarle
>e
che naturalmente mi feci dalla ragazza tuttofare che mi nutriva
>in
quegli anni; ma dalle mie innocue cotolette alla pizzaiola
>o
pesto alla genovese o gnocchi alla romana almeno non le
>derivarono
guai. Invece Brion Gysin (che piu' tardi sarebbe
>diventato
noto attraverso il sodalizio con William Burroughs
>e i
loro cut-ups), o forse Paul Bowles (protagonista in seguito
>di
un colossale revival grazie alla riduzione cinematografica
>che
Bernardo Bertolucci fece del suo The Sheltering Sky) le
>mando'
da Tangeri la ricetta di una crema all'hashish e Alice
>la
pubblico' nel testo integrale, in cui veniva consigliata come
>particolarmente
adatta a un pomeriggio di pioggia e si precisava,
>nella
descrizione degli ingredienti, che si poteva facilmente
>coltivare
in un vasetto sul davanzale della cucina, come si
>fa
nei paesi meridionali con il basilico, la menta o le altre
>erbe
aromatiche.
> Quando il libro usci', la campagna di
Allen Ginsberg per
>la
legalizzazione della marijuana non era ancora incominciata.
>Il
settimanale "Time" pubblico' una recensione anticipata
>segnalando
la ricetta e affermando che non c'era da stupirsi
>se
Gertrude Stein scriveva in quel modo incomprensibile,
>considerando
il cibo che le somministrava Alice. Quando lesse
>l'articolo,
Gysin le telefono' da Tangeri, offrendosi di
>modificare
il testo; ma ormai era troppo tardi. L'editore
>americano
parlo' con il procuratore generale, e nonostante ne
>ricevesse
la precisazione della colpevolezza di chi compra, vende
>o
usa droghe ma l'innocenza di chi ne scrive, preferi' rifare
>l'ultima
parte del libro (nonostante fosse gia' rilegato)
>sopprimendo
la ricetta pericolosa. Alice si trovo', a settantotto
>anni,
al centro di uno scandalo forse piu' vistoso del
>necessario,
in un'atmosfera da Grande Inquisizione e da Rogo delle
>streghe;
e il settimanale "Time" pubblico' solo poche righe
>della
sua lettera di spiegazione.
> Il fatto che i libro continuasse a
circolare in Inghilterra
>non
evito' l'insuccesso economico del volume: il mercato che
>avrebbe
assorbito quelle ricette, con o senza marijuana, procurando
>ad
Alice un lieve sollievo economico, non era certo quello inglese.
>Quando
le chiesi che cosa mai le fosse venuto in mente, mi
>rispose
con aria offesa di non aver mai saputo, prima che si
>facesse
tutto quel chiasso, che la cannabis sativa e' la marijuana,
>e
di aver inserito la ricetta soltanto perche' le sembrava divertente.
>(...)
>F.P.
1965.
>
>Gaul
Est Dividio in Partes Tres!
Mike
Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 19:35:37 -0600
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Jeff Taylor
<taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Burroughs, Wittgenstein
In-Reply-To: <34B6BC70.2EAF@sunflower.com>
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um, we
were talking about Wittgenstein's estate....no intention to
suggest
any problems with WSB's
On Fri,
9 Jan 1998, Patricia Elliott wrote:
> to
be blunt i consider it a little creepy to declare problems with
>
williams estate and publishing before there is any. I feel that if any
[...]
>
william died and dealt with by the detail efficient james. but if one
>
wanted to pretend problems then might be better to backchannel and
>
hint.
>
>
patricia
>
>
Michael R. Brown wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Jeff Taylor wrote:
>
>
>
> > (& BTW, there's still a lot of W's writings not yet published....yet
>
> > another "estate" controversy)
>
>
>
> And presumably another archive that is going to be allowed to be reclused
>
> from open study, to languish and deteriorate. :/
*******
Jeff
Taylor
taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
*******
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 19:42:52 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "V.J. Eaton"
<vj@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg in America
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Old.
Bad. Buy it anyway and read it.
>Does
anyone out there know anything about this book? Schtick? Good/bad?
It
seems to
>be
just published . . .
Did it
have a title page?
_____________________
My
opinions and those of my employer are usually different,
for
which my mother apologizes.
V.J.
Eaton
Tempe,
AZ
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 18:58:51 PST
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From: marie countyman
<mcountyman@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: my 15 minutes
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well,
it surebe nice to get a gig in frisco at all, not the least to
have
the wonderful friends in the crowd -and, gasp!) more listeners than
poets!
had a
blast.
QR Hand
is an amazing man
marie
>From
owner-beat-l@cunyvm.cuny.edu Fri Jan 9
03:09:07 1998
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>Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 05:04:31 -0600
>Reply-To:
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>Sender:
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>From:
David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>
>Subject: Re: my 15 minutes
>Comments:
To: Gibson <rgibson@prairienet.org>
>To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>marie
countyman wrote:
>>
>>
hey everyone: it was a great evening, with local and beloved it seems
to
>>
many (including me) QR Hand read some of his work and it was great.
my
>>
reading went well: i was geared up for
the newest version of
'insomnia
>>
quartet' and that read quite well. the audience certainly did not
hurt,
>>
as it included leon, without whom it would not have happened at all,
and
>>
by sherri and james, who i have come to know and like very much. and
QR
>>
as well.
>>
it's tired and my mind is fried.
>>
more to come
>>
thanks for all comments, good thoughts, and cheerleading! it all
helped.
>>
mc
>>
>>
______________________________________________________
>>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>More
seriously MARIE. It is wonderful in my
view for someone named
>Country
Man named MARIE to get a GREAT GIG. As
we all sing sometimes
in
>the
Elevators from GOODNIGHT IRENE, "Sometimes I LIVE IN THE CUNT-TREE
>SOMETIMES
I LIVE IN TOWN SOMETIMES I GET A GREAT NOTION TO JUMP IN a
>lake.
>
>d
>
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 19:13:59 +0000
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: uh, Jim Harrison?
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Gene,
Nice to
see you mention Harrison, who is a favorite of mine, tho not really
withing
the purvue of this list. I don't really
know his poetry, I must
confess,
but his
novellas are some of the best current prose, in my view. Dalva, of the
longer
things, is a big one for me.
James
Stauffer
GTL1951
wrote:
>
Marie
> I damn sure dont want to take away
from your 15 mins. i think its
>
great!Now- about a month back I made a statement on the list that I felt that
>
Pound, Eliot, and Ginsberg were the greatest American Poets. I would have
>
included Rilke, light and fire that he was, cept he wasnt American! Anyways-
>
fraid I left out one of the greatest living American Poets- Jim Harrison.
> I have yet to see mention of him on
the List, and I dont think you can
> a
more Beat, Enlightened, and Intelligent Poet going today. Dont tell me about
>
those same ol samo acedemics guys and dolls. Boring! And dont let the Brad
>
Pitt hoopla over Legend of the Fall bring you down- Harrison is great!
> Read the guy- he deserves our support.
>
Gen
> e
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:09:43 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: TKQ <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: The Kerouac Quarterly- Page updated
today!
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Today I
changed the page around a little bit per the costant e-mail I get
for
creative suggestions. I do appreciate them all.There are new links to
great
pages on Burroughs, Ginsberg, John Clellon Holmes, and of course...
the all new Kerouac Quarterly Chat Room!
Go there anytime!
Have a nice weekend all and
look for some new Kerouac
Quarterly
pages very shortly...Paul of TKQ.
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 20:09:27 +0000
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Lew Welch
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Nancy,
I make
tons of typo's, God knows, and I love the Lew quote, but it's "Welch"
not
"Whelch"
James
Nancy B
Brodsky wrote:
>
>
>
> "Those who can't find anything to live for
>
> always invent something to die
for.
>
>
>
> Then they want the rest of us to
>
> die for it, too."
>
>
>
> - Lew Whelch
>
>
>
>
The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
>
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:52:18 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Synchronicity
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In a
moment of coincidence, I picked up Bob Dylan by Anthony Scudato
(1973)
and found this on page 66:
"Pete
Seeger would come, with his wife Toshi, and their children. Peter
La
Farge (son of Oliver La Farge, who won the 1930 Pulitzer Prize in
literature
for Laughing Boy, his novel about hte Navajos) part-Indian,
cowboy,
folksinger, author of The Ballad of Ira Hayes, weaver of tall
tales. Cisco Houston, Jack Elliott and dozens
more."
LaFarge
is also mentioned on pages 78, 120, 133, 137, and 283.
On page
283 it says,
"While
Bob was in Australia hte previous April Richard Farina had been
killed
in a motorcycle accident. Paul Clayton
committed suicide the
April
before Dylan's accident, jumping out of a window after a three-day
LSD
trip. Peter La Farge had committed
suicide. Death lurked all
around."
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:40:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: uh, Jim Harrison?
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SOL.3.95.980109144003.24778C-100000@comp>
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>I
just wanted to second the vote for Jim Harrison. He's amazingly good in
>any
form, poetry/short fiction/novels. He
even met Jack Kerouac once.
>
>Don
Lee
>Fayetteville,
Ark.
>
>"I
cannot live without books."
> --Thomas Jefferson
It was
Harrison's book "Farmer" that started the exodus of city folk to the
country--particularly
teachers.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors
07-01-96 to 11-28-97
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:34:13 -0600
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: THE BALLAD OF IRA HAYES
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M. Cakebread
wrote:
>
> At
01:35 AM 1/9/98 -0600, David Rhaesa wrote:
>
>
>does anybody know WHO allegedly wrote it?
>
> P.
LaFarge wrote it, everyone sings it. . .
>
>
Townes Van Zandt's version is one of my fave's.
>
Dylan's is ok, I guess. Motley Crue's
version
> is
by far the best!!
>
>
Motorcyle Mike
i
prefer MY version under the PEN-NAME ROBERT PIRSIG.
DR
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:35:12 -0600
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: my 15 minutes
Comments:
cc: "lewenthompson@midkan.com" <lewenthompson@midkan.com>
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M.
Cakebread wrote:
>
> At
03:47 AM 1/9/98 -0600, David Rhaesa wrote:
>
>
>I heard GEORGE WILL is gonna PAN U'R PERFORMANCE
> >BIG
TIME!!!!!!
>
>
>
>citizen caine
>
>
ROSEBUD!?!?!?!?!
Raisins
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:05:47 +0000
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: THE BALLAD OF IRA HAYES
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> Ok
David,
Most
the questions are answered. I am less
hip than some of the guys, I
only
remember the Johnny Cash and Bob Dylan versions.
We know
know that Oliver La Farge's son wrote it--
But
where do you get the Eugene, Ore info--curious about my old town's
connection. What is the story. You are exceedingly cryptic these days.
Speaking
only in koans after your satori.
James
Stauffer
>
>
>
David Bruce Rhaesa wrote:
>
>
> it has a beat
>
>
>
> does anybody know the lyrics?
>
> does anybody know WHO allegedly wrote it?
>
> does anybody know WHICH BEAT WRITER ACTUALLY WROTE IT?
>
> is it true it was written in Mary's Vineyard outside EUGENE OREGON?
>
>
>
> trivia questions?
>
>
>
> pandur
>
--------------F8AAEB5A16788135A79641B9
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<HTML>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
TYPE=CITE>Ok David,</BLOCKQUOTE>
Most
the questions are answered. I am less hip than some of the guys,
I only
remember the Johnny Cash and Bob Dylan versions.
<P>We
know know that Oliver La Farge's son wrote it--
<P>But
where do you get the Eugene, Ore info--curious about my old town's
connection.
What is the story. You are exceedingly cryptic
these
days. Speaking only in koans after your satori.
<P>James
Stauffer
<BLOCKQUOTE
TYPE=CITE>
<P>David
Bruce Rhaesa wrote:
<P>>
it has a beat
<BR>>
<BR>>
does anybody know the lyrics?
<BR>>
does anybody know WHO allegedly wrote it?
<BR>>
does anybody know WHICH BEAT WRITER ACTUALLY WROTE IT?
<BR>>
is it true it was written in Mary's Vineyard outside EUGENE OREGON?
<BR>>
<BR>>
trivia questions?
<BR>>
<BR>>
pandur
<BR><A
HREF="http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw"></A> </BLOCKQUOTE>
</HTML>
--------------F8AAEB5A16788135A79641B9--
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 03:29:48 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: my 15 minutes
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At
12:35 AM 1/10/98 -0600, David Rhaesa wrote:
>M.
Cakebread wrote:
>>
ROSEBUD!?!?!?!?!
>
>Raisins
Damn, I
thought I'd found u. . .
Signing
off from RKO Radio,
CFK
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 02:28:23 -0600
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Jeff Taylor
<taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: WSB mentioned on Leno
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Thursday
night Robin Williams was on the Tonight Show. Somehow Gus Van
Sant's
name was mentioned, and RW described GVS as like "a cross
between
Mr Rogers and William Burroughs." This seemed to elicit no
reaction,
so RW mumbled something like, "no one know knows what I'm
talking
about, do they".
*******
Jeff
Taylor
taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
*******
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 07:45:59 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher
<tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization:
art language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: This body Universe, a sort of
BeatZen reply
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Sean
Young wrote:
>
> We are the mirror as well as the face in
it. We are tasting the taste
> this moment of eternity. We are Pain and
what cures pain, both.
> We are the jar and the sweet cold water
that pours.
> - Rumi
>
> No body, No universe (A la heart sutra).
No here, no there.
> Only both. No either/or. We are the
stuff that the universe is made
> of. A singularity contains aspects of
the whole. Universe is
> perpetuated through body. Things are
void of preconceptions. Certain
> distinctions are only forms dancing
before our eyes. there is
> something beyond the forms. we speak as
if absolute is before us. all
> there is, is endless wonder. as Corso
says, "Never find Forever."
>
> -off the cuff musings after reading
BeatZen emails and trying to stay
> grounded during manic work day.
>
> Hope you all are well.
> Peace be upon you.
>
> Sean D. Young
despite
the assurances of the sutras, no taste, no illusion of taste, no
thought,
no illusion of thought, we are still individual egos, even now
click
clacking keyboards before the rise of the sun and connected thru
wires
and electric flux.
despite
teachers' assurance of no body no individual self, our
individual
bodies still exist in the individual mind of even tulkus, who
abstract
us as sources of income and fuck vessels, especially after a
few
beers
steven
segall now a tulku. imagine. steven segall born without karma,
come
selflessly into world to save us lessers.
gosh
free
tibet
hahaha
a dead
universe with no god, only us and our neurotic preceptions, and
no way
out, seven lifetimes at best, and most of us stuck in the endless
cycle
os samsara, maya and karma, or a universe created by a loving god,
who
despite our history of turning away and falling away still leaves
open
the door of salvation, free to all who accept.
which is more
cynical,
more hopeless?
tkc
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:56:42 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: sliced writings ("Ciao,
Alice")
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.5.16.19980109191003.24a7bc34@mail.wi.centuryinter.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
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Mike
Rice writes:
>>Gaul
Est Dividio in Partes Tres!
Mike,
the above line was cracking me up!
then...
During
1965 Alice B. Toklas was in financial difficulties and
planed
to write a cookery book. she aimed to collect
recipes
from her friends. Brion Gysin kidding send to her
the
Hashish Fudge recipe. Afterwards the TIME magazine,
was
shocked by the recipe, stressed the Gertrude Stein's
writings
were so incomprehensible cuz she has eaten the
food
cooked by Alice.
* A
Rose is a rose Rose is a rose is a rose *
saluti
to all,
the
beetle of venice.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 08:27:39 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael R. Brown"
<foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>
Subject: Re: WSB mentioned on Leno
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.PMDF.3.95.980110022218.570806468A-100000@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
MIME-Version:
1.0
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On Sat,
10 Jan 1998, Jeff Taylor wrote:
>
Thursday night Robin Williams was on the Tonight Show. Somehow Gus Van
>
Sant's name was mentioned, and RW described GVS as like "a cross
>
between Mr Rogers and William Burroughs." This seemed to elicit no
>
reaction, so RW mumbled something like, "no one know knows what I'm
>
talking about, do they".
Ahhhh,
but they will one day ... :)
+ -- +
-- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +
Michael R. Brown foosi@global.california.com
+ -- +
-- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +
Find out the laws then do what
you will.
- Susannah
Thompson
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 08:33:16 +0000
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject:
Re: This body Universe, a sort of
BeatZen reply
MIME-Version:
1.0
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Tom--
Thanks
for putting it so well. And so many JK
fans keep bemoaning the fact that
he kept
is affection for the old mother church.
If he had only lived long
enough
to see Siegal buy his tulka-hood--I am sure he would have changed his
mind.
James
Stauffer
Tom
Christopher wrote:
>
despite the assurances of the sutras, no taste, no illusion of taste, no
>
thought, no illusion of thought, we are still individual egos, even now
>
click clacking keyboards before the rise of the sun and connected thru
>
wires and electric flux.
>
>
despite teachers' assurance of no body no individual self, our
>
individual bodies still exist in the individual mind of even tulkus, who
>
abstract us as sources of income and fuck vessels, especially after a
>
few beers
>
>
steven segall now a tulku. imagine. steven segall born without karma,
>
come selflessly into world to save us lessers.
>
>
gosh
>
>
free tibet
>
>
hahaha
>
> a
dead universe with no god, only us and our neurotic preceptions, and
> no
way out, seven lifetimes at best, and most of us stuck in the endless
>
cycle os samsara, maya and karma, or a universe created by a loving god,
>
who despite our history of turning away and falling away still leaves
>
open the door of salvation, free to all who accept. which is more
>
cynical, more hopeless?
>
>
tkc
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 17:26:40 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: This body Universe, a sort of
BeatZen reply
In-Reply-To: <34B7272E.4D45@zipcon.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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Tom
Christopher wrote:
>a
dead universe with no god, only us and our neurotic preceptions, and
at the
moment i missed the bus cuz surprised for a great orange moon
in a
sky going to the evening
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 08:37:22 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael R. Brown"
<foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>
Subject: Re: sliced writings ("Ciao,
Alice")
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19980110165642.006b0484@pop.gpnet.it>
MIME-Version:
1.0
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On Sat,
10 Jan 1998, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
the beetle of venice.
Would
that be an affine animal to that of the opera by Nietzsche's
friend,
Peter Gast: _The Lion of Venice_? :)
Salut!
+ -- +
-- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +
Michael R. Brown foosi@global.california.com
+ -- +
-- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +
Find out the laws then do what
you will.
- Susannah
Thompson
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:19:47 -0600
Reply-To: cawilkie@comic.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cathy Wilkie
<cawilkie@COMIC.NET>
Subject: the parable of the horse re: SKiing accidents
MIME-Version:
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> but we all die.. and i can think of a lot
less funny and harsher ways
> to
die than running into a tree skiing.
> i certainly know if i died in a funny way
(for instance, dying on a
>
luxury cruise, in the middle of a huge ocean...by drowning in the little
>
pool on board)i wouldn't mind at all if people got a few minutes of
>
perverse pleasure out of laughing...
> if its one thing i don't like, please do not
take offense, is when
>
people get too serious when things are supposed to be funny...
> it may be wrong to luagh at their deaths...
but i'm laughing at their
>
lives too...
>
-julian
Julian
and all:
a
parable for us all:
My
significant other used to be married to a simple country-type woman,
who
really really wanted a horse. After
much discussion, arguments, and
debates
on the pros and cons of owning a horse, the ex-wife won out in
the
end, and they purchased her a horse.
flash:
three years later, literally a flash:
by this
time, they divorced, she kept the horse, and my significant
other
and his ex-wife remained friends. One
morning she calls while he
is in
the shower, I figured it had to be something relatively important
for her
to call that early in the morning. so I
rouse him out of the
shower,
he talks with her for five, ten minutes, then hangs up. He
starts
to laugh uncontrollably. I ask him what
it was she had to say
that
set him off like this.
He
says, "Remember the horse which caused much angst between her and I?"
I said,
"Yeah... and?"
He
said, "The horse got hit by lightning.
They found it out in the
pasture,
charred almost beyond recognition.
Wanna know what the worst
part
was?"
"Yeah,"
I answered.
He
looked at me with a straight face.
"The horse's head exploded when
it got
hit by the lightning. They found it
quite a way from the body!"
He
started laughing again, slapping his knee.
He found it quite ironic
in the
end, that after all the arguments, after all the hair-pulling and
name-calling,
it didn't matter in the end because the problem of the
horse
had essentially disappeared in one quick strike from the heavens
above. It just didn't matter, it hadn't really been
that important in
the
first place.
I
started laughing then, also, but stopped after a moment when I
realized
what it might have felt like to see your charred, beheaded
horse
lying out in the pasture. But then
irony won out again, I started
laughing
again, but I still felt bad about it.
the
end.
cathy
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:50:58 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: T-BONE INTENTIONS
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: sliced writings ("Ciao,
Alice")
Speaking
of Alice Toklas brownies, there was a letter from Hunter Thompson in
the
recent 60s exhibit at the Cleveland Rock 'n Roll musuem Hall of Fame.
I
forget who the letter was from but they had written Hunter for a favorite
recipe.
Hunter wrote back with a very specific recipe for chocolate chip
cookies
and hash. Wish I had a copy of that letter. Did anybody else see it?
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:28:10 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael R. Brown"
<foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>
Subject: Re: Wittgenstein?
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.PMDF.3.95.980107203100.570815195C-100000@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
MIME-Version:
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On Wed,
7 Jan 1998, Jeff Taylor wrote:
> In
all my reading of Burroughs, I've never run across anything that
>
made me think, "Gee, that sounds just like Wittgenstein." So apart
>
from the explicit reference in the intro to Naked Lunch, I don't think
>
Burroughs ever had much to say about W.
Well,
there is that reference to Wittgenstein's pre-recorded-universe
idea in
the WSB documentary. Wittgenstein may have been more of an
influence,
however, in the idea of language-games. Perhaps Burroughs was a
language-gamester
akin to the "trickster guru" Alan Watts wrote about.
Michael,
dreaming
of coyote, the trickster god
+ -- +
-- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +
Michael R. Brown foosi@global.california.com
+ -- +
-- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +
Libertarianism is political
bisexuality.
- M. Brown
(libertarian)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:32:48 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: sliced writings ("Ciao,
Alice")
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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T-BONE
INTENTIONS wrote:
>
>
Speaking of Alice Toklas brownies, there was a letter from Hunter Thompson in
>
the recent 60s exhibit at the Cleveland Rock 'n Roll musuem Hall of Fame.
> I
forget who the letter was from but they had written Hunter for a favorite
>
recipe. Hunter wrote back with a very specific recipe for chocolate chip
>
cookies and hash. Wish I had a copy of that letter. Did anybody else see it?
>
>
Dave B.
TBONE
was my first bodyguard in ROCKISLAND ILLinois.
It's pretty much
now
down to the land of lincoln vs. the land of eisenhower. I like Ike
and i
was born in lincoln Kansas. Please send
a note to my father
Rev.
James William Rhaesa (Ret)
6909 NW
Pleasant View Lane
Parkville
MO 64152
or call
me directly at
785-7969
LOVE
david
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:30:49 -0500
Reply-To: "Neil M. Hennessy"
<nhenness@uwaterloo.ca>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Burroughs, Wittgenstein
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.PMDF.3.95.980109193126.570826186A-100000@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
MIME-Version:
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Actually,
Michael R. Brown mentioned Burroughs parenthetically when he
said:
"Do
we really need to waste precious time of
life in
"Jack [or Bill or Allen] woulda WANTED it this way" arguments?"
Having
seen the forwarded e-mail from James Grauerholz that Diane posted,
I think
we can all rest easy that the Burroughs estate is going to be
EXTREMELY
well taken care of. I, for one, sleep easy at night knowing it's
in
James' capable hands.
Neil
On Fri,
9 Jan 1998, Jeff Taylor wrote:
>
um, we were talking about Wittgenstein's estate....no intention to
>
suggest any problems with WSB's
>
> On
Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Patricia Elliott wrote:
>
>
> to be blunt i consider it a little creepy to declare problems with
>
> williams estate and publishing before there is any. I feel that if any
> [...]
>
> william died and dealt with by the detail efficient james. but if one
>
> wanted to pretend problems then might be better to backchannel and
>
> hint.
>
>
>
> patricia
>
>
>
> Michael R. Brown wrote:
>
> >
>
> > On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Jeff Taylor wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > (& BTW, there's still a lot of W's writings not yet
published....yet
>
> > > another "estate" controversy)
>
> >
>
> > And presumably another archive that is going to be allowed to be
reclused
>
> > from open study, to languish and deteriorate. :/
>
>
*******
>
Jeff Taylor
>
taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
>
*******
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 18:10:02 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: George <nellie@CCO.NET>
Subject: Re: alexander supertramp
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At
09:48 AM 1/6/98 PST, you wrote:
>Jon
Krackaurer (correct spelling?) wrote a book called "Into the Wild"
>about
Alexander Supertramp. It is an excellent book, well researched
>with
extensive interviews of the many people supertramp touched during
>the
two years between "dissappearing" and "reappearing" dead in
the
>Alaskan
wilderness.
That
book was studied in my American Lit. class, we didn't read all of it,
just
excerpts, then had to write an essay on if we thought he made the right
decision. Wasn't Supertramp's real name Chris
McCandless?
Janelle
"Strange now to think of you,
gone without corsets & eyes,"
--Allen
Ginsberg
"So in America when the sun goes down
and I sit on the old broken-down
river
pier watching the long, long skies over New Jersey and sense all that
raw
land that rolls in one unbelivble huge
bulge over to the West Coast,
and all
that road going and all thoes people dreaming in the immensity of
it, and
in Iowa i know by now the children must be crying in the land where
they
let the children cry, and tonight the stars'll be out, and don't you
know
God is Pooh Bear? the evening star must
be drooping and shedding her
spakler
dims on the prairie, which is just before the coming of compleate
night
that blesses the earth, darkens all rivers, cups the peaks and folds
the
final shore in, and nobody, nobody knows what's going to happen to
anybody
besides the forlorn rags of growing old, I think of Dean Moriarty, I
even
think of old Dean Moriarty the father we never found, I think of Dean
Moriarty." --Jack Kerouac
*********************************************************************
If you
would like to submit an artical, drawing, photograph, poem, song,
story,
joke, rant, manifesto, or whatever else you have, to 96 MILES TO
PORTLAND,
PLEASE contact me. If you want to
subscribe PLEASE contact me, if
you
submitt your issue containing the submission is free. If you would just
like to
get an issue then it's $1. By e-mail it's free but you can't seee
the
pretty pictures
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:47:54 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Greg Beaver-Seitz
<hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: alexander supertramp
Content-Type:
text/plain
>
>That
book was studied in my American Lit. class, we didn't read all of
it,
>just
excerpts, then had to write an essay on if we thought he made the
right
>decision. Wasn't Supertramp's real name Chris
McCandless?
>Janelle
>
>
Yes, I
believe it was...
I'd
suggest reading the whole book.. after all this talk of it I may
have to
go and reread it..
Read
Junky this weekend. First entire
Burroughs book I have read,
really
liked. Moved very quickly and was just so a matter-of-fact way of
relating
such a wacked-out lifestyle.
That's
all I can say.
-Greg
* * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Greg
Beaver-Seitz
http://members.tripod.com/~Sprayberry
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:28:44 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: WSB mentioned on Leno
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.BSI.3.95.980110082712.720A-100000@global.california.c om>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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At
08:27 AM 1/10/98 -0800, you wrote:
>On
Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Jeff Taylor wrote:
>
>>
Thursday night Robin Williams was on the Tonight Show. Somehow Gus Van
>>
Sant's name was mentioned, and RW described GVS as like "a cross
>>
between Mr Rogers and William Burroughs." This seemed to elicit no
>>
reaction, so RW mumbled something like, "no one know knows what I'm
>>
talking about, do they".
>
>Ahhhh,
but they will one day ... :)
>
>Listen,
tell me, I don't know what he means either and I have imbibed both
Mr.
Rogers and William Burroughs' neighborhood.
What is the not very funny
Williams
getting at?
Mike
Rice
>
>+
-- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +
> Michael R. Brown foosi@global.california.com
>+
-- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +
>
>
> Find out the laws then do what
you will.
> - Susannah
Thompson
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 22:59:48 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: BRUNO (was Re: Stone on Kerouac
MIME-Version:
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M.
Cakebread wrote:
>
> At
05:05 PM 1/8/98 -0500, Mike Rice wrote:
>
>
>It developed that Bettelheim had also lied about
>
>his academic credentials and was something of a
>
>fraud. I saw Bettelheim on Dick
Cavett years ago
>
>talking about the Fairy Tale book.
>
>
_The Empty Fortress_ has always been a
book I've
>
had to read with a "pound" of salt. The statement,
>
"my belief that the precipitating factor in infantile
>
autism is the parent's wish that his child should
>
not exist (Bettelheim, 1967)" has led me to refer
> to
him as "Brutal" Bettelheim.
>
>
Mike
THANX
d
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 21:21:48 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Greg Beaver-Seitz
<hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Ginsberg etc.
Content-Type:
text/plain
Hey
everyone!
Just
added a bunch of new pictures and poems to Ginsberg etc.
http://members.tripod.com/~Sprayberry
Enjoy,
Greg
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:39:58 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jodie R Gardner
<JGardner@DOANE.EDU>
Subject: Re: another newcomer...
MIME-Version:
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My poem
went over great! They actually liked
it! Anyway, the class is still
going
well. Thanks for all the comments and
quotes!
*jodie*
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:29:57 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg etc.
MIME-Version:
1.0
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Greg
Beaver-Seitz wrote:
>
>
Hey everyone!
>
>
Just added a bunch of new pictures and poems to Ginsberg etc.
>
>
http://members.tripod.com/~Sprayberry
>
>
Enjoy,
>
Greg
>
>
______________________________________________________
>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
THANX
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:32:50 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: another newcomer...
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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Jodie R
Gardner wrote:
>
> My
poem went over great! They actually
liked it! Anyway, the class is still
>
going well. Thanks for all the comments
and quotes!
>
>
*jodie*
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPER
DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPR
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:49:52 -0800
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
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From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: OTR character key
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Hello
all,
I just
finished typing this out for a friend in need... I thought I'd
pass it
along for anyone who doesn't have a character guide. All those
who do,
delete away!
Adrien
_On The
Road_ Character Key
NOTE:
All character names are listed alphabetically by last name, with
the
exception of characters with single names; pseudonym first, real
name
second.
"AUNT"--Gabrielle
L'Evesque Kerouac [mother of JK]
REMI
BONCOEUR--Henri Cru [friend of JK at Horace Mann, then in
California
& NYC]
CAMILLE--Carolyn
Cassady [wife of Neal Cassady for 20 years]
DAMION--Lucien
carr [friend of JK, Ginsberg, and Burroughs at Columbia &
later
NYC]
DODIE--Julie
Burroughs [daughter of Joan Burroughs]
ED
DUNKEL--Al Hinkle [friend of Neal Cassady in Denver & SF]
GALATEA
DUNKEL--Helen Hinkle [wife of Al Hinkle]
ROLLO
GREB--Alan Ansen [poet friend of JK]
TIM
GREY--Ed White [friend of JK at Columbia, introduced JK to
"sketching"]
ELMO
HASSEL--Herbert Huncke [early friend of JK, Ginsberg, Burroughs, et
al;
'beat' originator]
HAL
HINGHAM--Alan Harrington [novelist & essayist, author of _The
Immortalist_]
INEZ--Diana
Hansen [wife of Neal cassady in NYC]
JANE--Joan
Vollmer Adams Burroughs [wife of William Burroughs]
ROY
JOHNSON--Bill Tomson [friend of Neal Cassady in Denver & SF,
introduced
Neal to Carolyn]
CHAD
KING--Hal Chase [friend of JK at Columbia & Denver]
LAURA--Joan
Haverty [second wife of JK, wrote OTR while living with her
in NYC]
OLD
BULL LEE--William Burroughs
ROLAND
MAJOR--Alan Temko [friend of JK in Denver, architectural critic &
professor]
CARLO
MARX--Allen Ginsberg
MARY
LOU--Luanne Henderson [Neal Cassady's first wife, road companion of
Cassady
& JK]
AMY
MORIARTY--Cathy Cassady [daughter of Neal & Carolyn Cassady]
DEAN
MORIARTY--Neal Cassady
JOANIE
MORIARTY--Jamie Cassady [daughter of Neal & Carolyn Cassady]
SAL
PARADISE--Jack Kerouac
BABE
RAWLINS--Beverly Burford [Bob Burford's sister, knew JK in SF as
well as
Denver]
RAY
RAWLINS--Bob Burford [friend of JK's in Denver]
RAY--William
Burroughs, Jr. [son of Joan & William Burroughs]
TOM
SAYBROOK--John Clellon Holmes [novelist, author of _Go_, the first
Beat
Generation novel published]
STAN
SHEPHERD--Frank Jefferies [friend of JK's in Denver]
TOM
SNARK--Jim Holmes [early friend of Neal Cassady's in Denver]
TERRY--Bea
Franco [girlfriend of JK in California, "The Mexican Girl"]
ED
WALL--Don Uhl [friend of Neal Cassady in Colorado]
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:59:25 -0600
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From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: OTR character key
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Adrien
Begrand wrote:
>
>
Hello all,
>
> I
just finished typing this out for a friend in need... I thought I'd
>
pass it along for anyone who doesn't have a character guide. All those
>
who do, delete away!
>
>
Adrien
>
>
_On The Road_ Character Key
>
>
NOTE: All character names are listed alphabetically by last name, with
>
the exception of characters with single names; pseudonym first, real
>
name second.
>
>
"AUNT"--Gabrielle L'Evesque Kerouac [mother of JK]
>
REMI BONCOEUR--Henri Cru [friend of JK at Horace Mann, then in
>
California & NYC]
>
CAMILLE--Carolyn Cassady [wife of Neal Cassady for 20 years]
>
DAMION--Lucien carr [friend of JK, Ginsberg, and Burroughs at Columbia &
>
later NYC]
>
DODIE--Julie Burroughs [daughter of Joan Burroughs]
> ED
DUNKEL--Al Hinkle [friend of Neal Cassady in Denver & SF]
>
GALATEA DUNKEL--Helen Hinkle [wife of Al Hinkle]
>
ROLLO GREB--Alan Ansen [poet friend of JK]
>
TIM GREY--Ed White [friend of JK at Columbia, introduced JK to
>
"sketching"]
>
ELMO HASSEL--Herbert Huncke [early friend of JK, Ginsberg, Burroughs, et
>
al; 'beat' originator]
>
HAL HINGHAM--Alan Harrington [novelist & essayist, author of _The
>
Immortalist_]
>
INEZ--Diana Hansen [wife of Neal cassady in NYC]
>
JANE--Joan Vollmer Adams Burroughs [wife of William Burroughs]
>
ROY JOHNSON--Bill Tomson [friend of Neal Cassady in Denver & SF,
>
introduced Neal to Carolyn]
>
CHAD KING--Hal Chase [friend of JK at Columbia & Denver]
>
LAURA--Joan Haverty [second wife of JK, wrote OTR while living with her
> in
NYC]
>
OLD BULL LEE--William Burroughs
>
ROLAND MAJOR--Alan Temko [friend of JK in Denver, architectural critic &
>
professor]
>
CARLO MARX--Allen Ginsberg
>
MARY LOU--Luanne Henderson [Neal Cassady's first wife, road companion of
>
Cassady & JK]
>
AMY MORIARTY--Cathy Cassady [daughter of Neal & Carolyn Cassady]
> DEAN
MORIARTY--Neal Cassady
>
JOANIE MORIARTY--Jamie Cassady [daughter of Neal & Carolyn Cassady]
>
SAL PARADISE--Jack Kerouac
>
BABE RAWLINS--Beverly Burford [Bob Burford's sister, knew JK in SF as
>
well as Denver]
>
RAY RAWLINS--Bob Burford [friend of JK's in Denver]
>
RAY--William Burroughs, Jr. [son of Joan & William Burroughs]
>
TOM SAYBROOK--John Clellon Holmes [novelist, author of _Go_, the first
>
Beat Generation novel published]
>
STAN SHEPHERD--Frank Jefferies [friend of JK's in Denver]
>
TOM SNARK--Jim Holmes [early friend of Neal Cassady's in Denver]
>
TERRY--Bea Franco [girlfriend of JK in California, "The Mexican
Girl"]
> ED
WALL--Don Uhl [friend of Neal Cassady in Colorado]
THAT
KARYOKIE DUDE SHIRLEY WAS A FUCKING COMPLICATED OLD TURNIP.
DR
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 00:14:31 -0600
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From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: KCLINT!
Comments:
To: edebatemail <edebate@list.uvm.edu>,
"CVEditions@aol.com"
<CVEditions@aol.com>,
bohemian
<Bohemian@maelstrom.stjohns.edu>
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WESTERN
MOVIE THEMES
FROM
CLINT
EASTWOOD MOVIES:
The
Good the bad and the ugly planet of the apes and ants
High
Plains Drifter
Seedlings
A
Fistfull of Copper
Albino
RYDER!
Hang em
high joe kidd for a few bucks more the outland josie wales two
mules
for sister sarah/sara
PC1995
Dominion Entertainment, I. Manufactured and distributed in the
USA by
K-tel International (USA) INC 15535 Mesa Trail Plymouth ROCK.
DBR
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 02:10:00 -0600
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: WSB
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HE IS
RISEn HE IS RISEn INDEEDY!!!!
Is it
TRUE THAT he still hates ALL GIRLS NAMED FATTIE PATTIE?
DBR>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 02:24:07 -0600
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From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: poetess
JOYGOLISCHISDEFNITELYDEADASADOORNAILONABRASSBREDBED
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R.I.P
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 01:54:56 -0800
Reply-To: Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>
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From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: Stone on Kerouac
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Hello
David!
Happy
New Year to you etc..
I am
surprised to see a response to my post from so long ago! So let me see
if it
looks like you might want me to respond further
<<SNIP>>
>
>It
behooves us (as my stepsister katie's teacher would say) to seriously
>consider
how each of us can help to electrify American dreaming once
>again
so that this experiment in nation-hood will not be another long
>long
nightmare in the darkness from which none of us can awake. It
>seems
that this electrification is closely tied to notions of
>authenitication
and that revivals of Americanism in both intrapersonal
>and
universal meanings are self-reinforcing.
Hmmm.
If that is how it seems to you, it is o.k. by me. I am not sure though
how
these words translate into whatever
action.
<<SNIP>>
>>
People authenticate their american identity when they give their lives
in
>>
war with declared enemies of the state.
>
>This
is a fairly narrow scope for authentication - we can serve
>authentically
without dying in wars.
Absolutely.
I used it as one example only, not to
indicate scope.
>
>It
has nevertheless happened that
>>
some prisoners of war found more in common with their guards than with
their
>>
nation.
>
>The
research of Bettleheim (i believe it was) on the concentration camp
>victims
associating with the values of the guards seems to correlate
>with
these notions.
I see
that other alert and informed Beat-Lers have provided some questions
regarding
Bruno Bettleheim. Long before some character questions about
Bettleheim
emerged I had very serious questions about his pronouncements.
Specifically
about some generalizations the man made about concentration
camp
inmates that were quite outrageously incorrect. He was in a camp only a
few
days, and talked as if he had authoritative info about camp inmate
behaviors,
that I, and any of my fellow ex concentration camp inmates that I
asked
about it, found to be laughable (no joke though). So much for
Bettleheim's
"findings".
When two catholics kill each other in a war
of their nations, does
>>
that authenticate theit religious identities, their national identities,
the
>>
identities of their selves?
>
>Once
again, it seems that the killing notion of authentification seems
>to
be a difficult one for the world to detach.
If two soldiers from
>different
nations save each other's lives in war, and they are both
>catholic
which authentications are involved?
I would
say they authenticate their religious identities or humanitarian
identities
to be taking precedence over national identities. Although this
is an
oversimplification. I chose killing because willingness to kill
suggests
a very strong authentication of identification. People prove
(authenticate)
their patriotism, national identites, when they risk their
lives
and take the lives of the national enemies in war. No question in my
mind
that persons who live the ideals of
their nation authenticate their
national
identities in a much more positive and valuable manner in the long
run.
>
>Many
eagle scouts have authenticated their scout
>>
credo that way.
>
>I
only made it a couple weeks in scouts.
I couldn't hack it.
>
>Many
writers have authenticated their identity as writers by
>>
the work they produced. Jack Keouac authenticated himself as a writer who
>>
tilled the soil of the american landscape among other places that he
could
>>
find to search for any signs of life, mindless and mindfull action.
>
>Tilled
the soil of the American landscape is an interesting metaphor.
>I'm
not certain it is appropriate. It is
lovely but Jack was more of a
>railroad
and seaman than a farmer it seems. I
would say Woody Guthrie
>was
closer to the soil.
>
I
really am puzzled about what you question here. The word "landscape"
has
evolved
to be used as a metaphor for environment be it land, air, or sea.
Even
landscape of the mind. I am not quite sure what the questions are that
arisse
in your mind. Replace my word "landscape" with
"environment" if it
works
better for you.
<<SNIP>>>>
>>
Arguments are won by one side or another.
>
>Rarely. Arguments are part of a process of
knowing. Argumentation is
>the
cutting edge of epistomelogy research not public opinion. Notions
>of
who won or lost are mere soundbites they leave little weight in the
>long
run.
>
I was using
the word "argument" in its ordinary sense, referring to a real
argument
between two sides in which the side that wins the argument prevails
over
the other side's argument. Like defense and prosecution in a court of
law for
example.
>Reflecting
upon our understanding
>>
of things only stimulates us to further explorations, hopefully to be
able
>>
to see more clearly in the grey areas
of the mind where the perspective
of
>>
others brings more light as well as creates new shadows.
>
>Definitely. And this is why the winning or losing of the
arguments per
>se
isn't the question. Rather it is the
reflecting that argument brings
>out
in all of us.
I was
not talking about "the question" or about value measurements
pragmatic
results
in the short or long run..
<<SNIP>>
>>
Unredeemed and in no need of authentication
>
>happy
new year leon,
And an
authentic happy new year to you too, and to all authentic human
beings.
>david
rhaesa
>apt.
#23
>
>>
leon
>>
>>
-----Original Message-----
>>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
>>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>>
Date: Wednesday, December 10, 1997 7:21 AM
>>
Subject: Re: Stone on Kerouac
>>
>>
>I'm not sure I'm going to put this very well but I agree with Diane.
>>
>Kerouac, it seems to me, did seek to become part of, and to capture in
>>
>his art, the vast spirit of the American dream as Wolfe and Fitzgerald
>>
>and others did before him.
Does
that necessarily mean that he sought to authenticate his identity as
aperson
through these subjects of his art?
I agree with Diane wholeheartedly that he
>>
>never found the redemption that he was looking for and maybe the
>>
>impossibility of achieving such redemption is a truth readers discover
>>
>through his work. How does one
discover or authenticate himself,
>>
>except by measuring himself against a larger idea or tradition --
No one
is restricted to define themselves through any of these groupings
>>
>national identity, religion etc. In
the end, one's search for self may
>>
>end in a rejection of such big ideas as divisive and counterproductive
>>
>but the search, it seems to me, has to involve a struggle with such
>>
>ideas nonetheless.
"Such
Ideas" cover a wide range of
concepts. I am not sure that nation or
religion
are necessarily significant issues in
everyone's identities.
leon
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 11:14:34 +0100
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: poetess
JOYGOLISCHISDEFNITELYDEADASADOORNAILONABRASSBREDBED
In-Reply-To: <34B881A7.3878@midusa.net>
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David
Bruce Rhaesa says:
>R.I.P
>
>
webegunourthoughtswithGODISDEADthisphrasenormallyusedbychristianideaofGOD
theall-knowingall-powerfulandall-lovingdoesnotexists-cute-cute-America-cu
te-Aaaaaaamericaaaaaaaaaaa!!!intendedquestionmarkreversed-cute-cute-AMERI
CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-cute-cuuuuuuuuuute!America-americaAmeeeeeeerica!!!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 07:50:29 -0600
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From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: STATUES OF DAEDALUS -- By Nathaniel
Owens of Joliet Prison
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"of
their own motion they entered the conclave of Gods in Gypsum.
Some
sense it is as if a shuttle should weave of itself, and a plectrum
should
do its own axe playing." -- Aristotle "ed Politco" 1253b
in the
centre of the 20th century the STATUES of DAEDALUS that "cunning
craftsman"
of Greek legend, are beginning to dance in the West.
automaton
(i.e., self-correcting machines that feedloop information and
adjust
themselves) and cyberneticanation (i.e. making the automated
machines
capable of responding to a definitive infinity of contingencies
through
hooking them up with computers)!
DBR/dbr
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 08:44:04 +0000
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Day of the Gladiators
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In my
part of the world everything stops today for the spectacle of the
National
Football League playoffs. Massive
displays of testosterone and
stylized
violence, in which I intend to immerse myself. After all,
Jack
was a half-back.
Obviously
it is important to the balance of everything that San
Francisco
beats Green Bay--just as a triumph of a great Beat City over
the
cloying heartland. I am less involved
in the AFC side--although a
Denver
victory would be nice--Denver, lonesome for her heroes, vs. San
Francisco
ofthe poetry rennasisance ---on to the the Super Bowl.
James
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 08:48:51 +0000
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Thom Gunn
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Fans of
Gunn's poetry, or SF Poetry Renn fans in general may be
intereted
to know that Gunn is the cover story in the SF Examiner
Magazine
which is part of the jointly published San Francisco Sunday
paper. Not a bad year for them--Mt. Girl, and now
Thom.
Jame
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 11:21:16 -0600
Reply-To: cawilkie@comic.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Cathy Wilkie
<cawilkie@COMIC.NET>
Subject: Re: Robin Williams on Leno
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>
Subject:
> Re: WSB mentioned on Leno
> Date:
> Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:28:44 -0500
> From:
> mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
>
>
> At
08:27 AM 1/10/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Jeff Taylor wrote:
>
>
>
>> Thursday night Robin Williams was on the Tonight Show. Somehow Gus Van
>
>> Sant's name was mentioned, and RW described GVS as like "a cross
>
>> between Mr Rogers and William Burroughs." This seemed to elicit
no
>
>> reaction, so RW mumbled something like, "no one know knows what
I'm
>
>> talking about, do they".
>
>
>
>Ahhhh, but they will one day ... :)
>
>
>
>Listen, tell me, I don't know what he means either and I have imbibed both
>
Mr. Rogers and William Burroughs' neighborhood. What is the not very funny
>
Williams getting at?
>
>
Mike Rice
>
>
I think
that Robin Williams was referring to the fact that a lot of
people
these days know WSB only as "that wacky old guy who did the Nike
commercials
a couple years back." they don't
know the stories, they
don't
know the history, etc. etc.
I had
an experience in trying to describe who burroughs was just this
past
October. This friend of mine, age 21,
living in a medium size
town,
hangs out with the interesting types and the bar band crowd, was
in
chicago with me visiting another friend of mine. We're on our way
for the
boys to go get tattooed, I'm talking about WSB. The guy says,
who? I said the writer, beat generation writer...
he said what was the
beat
generation? I try for a while to
connect things up for him , even
going
so far as to connect Ken Kesey to WSB, kind of like the seven
stages
of Kevin Bacon game, it still isn't working.
We get to the
tattoo
parlor, and lo and behold, there is a framed photograph of WSB on
the
wall. I got excited, turned to my
friend, pointing at the picture
emphatically. "THERE!" I said, "That's him, right there in that
picture!"
"Oh,
" my friend replied. "That's
the old guy who does the Nike
commercials."
And the
smile just melted right off of my face.
cathy
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:37:51 -0600
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: STATUES OF DAEDALUS -- By Nathaniel
Owens of Joliet Prison
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David
Bruce Rhaesa wrote:
>
>
"of their own motion they entered the conclave of Gods in Gypsum.
>
Some sense it is as if a shuttle should weave of itself, and a plectrum
>
should do its own axe playing." -- Aristotle "ed Politco" 1253b
>
> in
the centre of the 20th century the STATUES of DAEDALUS that "cunning
>
craftsman" of Greek legend, are beginning to dance in the West.
>
>
automaton (i.e., self-correcting machines that feedloop information and
>
adjust themselves) and cyberneticanation (i.e. making the automated
>
machines capable of responding to a definitive infinity of contingencies
>
through hooking them up with computers)!
>
DBR/dbr
lip
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 14:39:29 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: TKQ <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Tonight: Chat In TKQ Chat Room
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Tonight:
Approximately, at 8:00 EST, there will be a formal introduction of
the Kerouac
Quarterly Chat Room. All are invited! To attend, simply go to
the
Kerouac Quarterly web page and click from the link provided....hope to
see
some of you there. Sincerely, Paul of The Kerouac Quarterly....
Go to:
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.html
Then click on the link
provided.....Thanks!
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:57:27 EST
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Subject: Proust Questions answered by Proust
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Dear
List,
A few
days ago I posted the well-known "Proust Questionnaire" to the list.
It
seems
like an appropriate thinking tool to use during the introspective period
upon
which a new year dawns.
James
Stauffer deflected it, Paul Maher answered it, and I said I'd post
Proust's
own responses in a few days, and they do follow this introduction.
A few
points of information, according to what I understand: The Proust
Questions
appear monthly on the back page of Vanity Fair magazine, used as an
interview
tool for "celebrities." The 20 questions I posted the other day are
apparently
the refined list, though I don't know who refined them. The two
completed
questionnaires that follow here have some of the same and some
different
questions than in the final, refined version. The first
questionnaire
(15 questions) was the product of a party game from when Proust
was 13.
These kids didn't waste their time on spin-the-bottle or pin-the-tail-
on-the-donkey,
but went straight for the cerebral fix. The second
questionnaire
was completed when Proust was 20 and is much longer.
My
favorite answer is #5, from his 13-year-old list of answers. There is much
to be
learned from that.
The 20
questions which I sent originally seem to be a good mix to get one's
brain
going. I recommend the mental exercise for anyone at any age. If you
didn't
save the 20 questions and want a copy, you can e-mail me.
..............................................
Marcel
Proust's answers at 13:
1. 7 What do you regard as the lowest depth of
misery?
To be
separated from Mama
2. 7 Where would you like to live?
In the
country of the Ideal, or, rather, of my ideal
3. 7 What is your idea of earthly happiness?
To live
in contact with those I love, with the beauties of nature, with a
quantity
of books and music, and to have, within easy distance, a French
theater
4. 7 To what faults do you feel most indulgent?
To a
life deprived of the works of genius
5. 7 Who are your favorite heroes of fiction?
Those
of romance and poetry, those who are the expression of an ideal rather
than an
imitation of the real
6. 7 Who are your favorite characters in
history?
A
mixture of Socrates, Pericles, Mahomet, Pliny the Younger and Augustin
Thierry
7. 7 Who are your favorite heroines in real
life?
A woman
of genius leading an ordinary life
8. 7 Who are your favorite heroines of fiction?
Those
who are more than women without ceasing to be womanly; everything that
is
tender, poetic, pure and in every way beautiful
9. 7 Your favorite painter?
Meissonier
10. 7
Your favorite musician?
Mozart
11. 7
The quality you most admire in a man?
Intelligence,
moral sense
12. 7
The quality you most admire in a woman?
Gentleness,
naturalness, intelligence
13. 7
Your favorite virtue?
All
virtues that are not limited to a sect: the universal virtues
14. 7
Your favorite occupation?
Reading,
dreaming, and writing verse
15. 7
Who would you have liked to be?
Since
the question does not arise, I prefer not to answer it. All the same, I
should
very much have liked to be Pliny the Younger.
Proust
at 20:
1. Your most marked characteristic?
A
craving to be loved, or, to be more precise, to be caressed and spoiled
rather
than to be admired
2. The quality you most like in a man?
Feminine
charm
3. The quality you most like in a woman?
A man's
virtues, and frankness in friendship
4. What do you most value in your friends?
5. Tenderness - provided they possess a
physical charm which makes their
tenderness
worth having
6. What is your principal defect?
Lack of
understanding; weakness of will
7. What is your favorite occupation?
Loving
8. What is your dream of happiness?
Not, I
fear, a very elevated one. I really haven't the courage to say what it
is, and
if I did I should probably destroy it by the mere fact of putting it
into words.
9. What to your mind would be the greatest of
misfortunes?
Never
to have known my mother or my grandmother
10.
What would you like to be?
Myself
- as those whom I admire would like me to be
11. In
what country would you like to live?
One
where certain things that I want would be realized - and where feelings of
tenderness
would always be reciprocated.
12.
What is your favorite color?
Beauty
lies not in colors but in thier harmony
13.
What is your favorite flower?
Hers -
but apart from that, all
14.
What is your favorite bird?
The
swallow
15. Who
are your favorite prose writers?
At the
moment, Anatole France and Pierre Loti
16. Who
are your favorite poets?
Baudelaire
and Alfred de Vigny
17. Who
is your favorite hero of fiction?
Hamlet
18. Who
are your favorite heroines of fiction?
Phedre
(crossed out) Berenice
19. Who
are your favorite composers?
Beethoven,
Wagner, Schumann
20. Who
are your favorite painters?
Leonardo
da Vinci, Rembrandt
21. Who
are your heroes in real life?
Monsieur
Darlu, Monsieur Boutroux (professors)
22. Who
are your favorite heroines of history?
Cleopatra
23.
What are your favorite names?
I only
have one at a time
24.
What is it you most dislike?
My own
worst qualities
25.
What historical figures do you most despise?
I am
not sufficiently educated to say
26.
What event in military history do you most admire?
My own
enlistment as a volunteer!
27.
What reform do you most admire?
(no
response)
28.
What natural gift would you most like to possess?
Will
power and irresistible charm
29. How
would you like to die?
A
better man than I am, and much beloved
30.
What is your present state of mind?
Annoyance
at having to think about myself in order to answer these questions
31. To
what faults do you feel most indulgent?
Those
that I understand
32.
What is your motto?
I
prefer not to say, for fear it might bring me bad luck.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:48:31 EST
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Subject: Re: Proust Questions answered by Proust
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I'd
like a copy of the questions.
Unfortunately I deleted them from my
mailbox. Thanks.
-George
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:18:25 EST
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Subject: Re: Proust Questions answered by Proust
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The
original "20 Questions"... reposited for George and everyone else.
Enjoy.
......................................
1. What is your most marked characteristic?
2. What do you consider your greatest
achievement?
3. When and where were you happiest?
4. What is your greatest regret?
5. What is your idea of perfect happiness?
6. What is your most treasured possession?
7. Where would you like to live?
8. What is your greatest fear?
9. What is the trait you most deplore in
yourself?
10.
What is the trait you most deplore in others?
11.
What do you consider the most overrated virtue?
12.
What is your greatest extravagance?
13.
What is your favourite journey?
14.
What is it that you most dislike?
15.
What is the quality you most like in a man?
16.
What is the quality you most like in a woman?
17.
What do you most value in your friends?
18. If
you were to come back as a person or thing, what do you think it would
be?
19. If
you could choose what to come back as, what would it be?
20. How
would you like to die?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:49:59 -0600
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From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: chat room
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went to
the chat room and heard you all got kicked off . i will go back
there
at 9;00
patricia
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 22:34:51 -0500
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From: main user <mparsons@PARTECHSOLUTIONS.COM>
Subject: Re: another newcomer...
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jodie:
congrats,
glad it went well.
mick
"When
I was young, I belived in God, but as I got older, it was my desire to
see God
that kept me from seeing what was here on Earth"
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:37:57 +1000
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From: Liam Ferney
<s341839@STUDENT.UQ.EDU.AU>
Organization:
Student
Subject: Writing
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I am
interested in corresponding with people who also write literature.
i Write
storeis, poems and plays.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:32:43 -0500
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From: "Neil M. Hennessy"
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Personal for Bill Gargan, disregard
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Hi
Bill,
Could
you please send me a non-BITNET address where I can contact you? The
BITNET
address keeps bouncing back.
Thanks,
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 05:34:47 PST
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From: Julian Ruck
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Subject: Re: Writing
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so do i..
all three...
-julian
"it is easy to fly, simply throw
yourself at the ground, and miss"
-adams
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:44:06 -0800
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From: Eric Lytle
<e.lytle@CED.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Robin Williams on Leno
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> I
had an experience in trying to describe who burroughs was just this
>
past October. This friend of mine, age
21, living in a medium size
>
town, hangs out with the interesting types and the bar band crowd, was
>
> in
chicago with me visiting another friend of mine. We're on our way
>
for the boys to go get tattooed, I'm talking about WSB. The guy says,
>
>
who? I said the writer, beat generation
writer... he said what was
>
the
>
beat generation? I try for a while to
connect things up for him ,
>
even
>
going so far as to connect Ken Kesey to WSB, kind of like the seven
>
stages of Kevin Bacon game, it still isn't working. We get to the
>
tattoo parlor, and lo and behold, there is a framed photograph of WSB
> on
>
the wall. I got excited, turned to my
friend, pointing at the picture
>
>
emphatically. "THERE!" I said, "That's him, right there in
that
>
picture!"
>
>
"Oh, " my friend replied.
"That's the old guy who does the Nike
>
commercials."
>
>
And the smile just melted right off of my face.
>
>
cathy
This is
exactly the reason why I joined this list.
I have a grand total
of two
friends who even have a clue about the beat writers. Kinda makes
it hard
to share thoughts and insights.
-E
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:58:48 PST
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From: Julian Ruck <julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Robin Williams on Leno
Content-Type:
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>>
I had an experience in trying to describe who burroughs was just this
>>
past October. This friend of mine, age
21, living in a medium size
>>
town, hangs out with the interesting types and the bar band crowd,
was
>>
>>
in chicago with me visiting another friend of mine. We're on our way
>>
for the boys to go get tattooed, I'm talking about WSB. The guy
says,
>>
>>
who? I said the writer, beat generation
writer... he said what was
>>
the
>>
beat generation? I try for a while to
connect things up for him ,
>>
even
>>
going so far as to connect Ken Kesey to WSB, kind of like the seven
>>
stages of Kevin Bacon game, it still isn't working. We get to the
>>
tattoo parlor, and lo and behold, there is a framed photograph of WSB
>>
on
>>
the wall. I got excited, turned to my
friend, pointing at the
picture
>>
>>
emphatically. "THERE!" I said, "That's him, right there in
that
>>
picture!"
>>
>>
"Oh, " my friend replied.
"That's the old guy who does the Nike
>>
commercials."
>>
>>
And the smile just melted right off of my face.
>>
>>
cathy
>
>
>This
is exactly the reason why I joined this list.
I have a grand
total
>of
two friends who even have a clue about the beat writers. Kinda
makes
>it
hard to share thoughts and insights.
>
>-E
>
i
joined this list for basically the same reason...
i was a
little tired of people thinking beatniks wore berets and all had
goaties...refused
to bathe...and slept in garbage cans, snapping their
fingers
in their sleeping saying..."oo..skit-skat dadddy o..."
-julian
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:22:59 PST
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From: Greg Beaver-Seitz
<hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Robin Williams on Leno
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>i
joined this list for basically the same reason...
>i
was a little tired of people thinking beatniks wore berets and all
had
>goaties...refused
to bathe...and slept in garbage cans, snapping their
>fingers
in their sleeping saying..."oo..skit-skat dadddy o..."
>-julian
>
I know
what you mean about the classic idea of berets and crap.
I tried
talking to one of my friends about Ginsberg once and he just
said,
"What pisses me off about beat poets is how they always snap their
fingers
instead of clapping after a reading..."
I
nodded and smiled.
-Greg
* * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*
Ginsberg etc. *
* http://members.tripod.com/~Sprayberry
*
*
Dozens of poems, pictures, info *
* * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
______________________________________________________
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Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:43:55 PST
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From: Julian Ruck <julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Robin Williams on Leno
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>I
know what you mean about the classic idea of berets and crap.
>I
tried talking to one of my friends about Ginsberg once and he just
>said,
"What pisses me off about beat poets is how they always snap
their
>fingers
instead of clapping after a reading..."
>I
nodded and smiled.
>
>-Greg
>
when all else fails...
smile
and nod....
-julian
"it is easy to fly, simply throw yourself
at the ground, and miss"
-adams
______________________________________________________
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Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:51:23 -0500
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From: "Gregory J. Conroy"
<gconroy@SIUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: WSB mentioned on Leno
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At 2:28
AM 1/10/98, Jeff Taylor wrote:
>Thursday
night Robin Williams was on the Tonight Show. Somehow Gus Van
>Sant's
name was mentioned, and RW described GVS as like "a cross
>between
Mr Rogers and William Burroughs." This seemed to elicit no
>reaction,
so RW mumbled something like, "no one know knows what I'm
>talking
about, do they".
I saw
Good Will Hunting, which was directed by GVS and starred RW, and I
noted
at the end of the credits that the film--written by Matt Damon and
Ben
Affleck--was dedicated to WSB and AG.....I wonder if that that was an
idea
from the writers or from Van Sant?!?
gc
Gregory
J. Conroy
Editor
of Publications
SIU
Edwardsville
Edwardsville,
IL 62026-1027
"Might
as well be frank, monsieur.
It
would take a miracle to get you
out of
Casablanca and the Germans
have
outlawed miracles."
"Imagination
is the voice of daring."
--Henry Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:18:56 -0800
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From: Maggie Gerrity <u2ginsberg@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Adams
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Julian,
Is the Adams quoted at the end of your
message Douglas Adams, the
genius
behind "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?" While not at all
Beat,
that series of books is by far the funniest I've ever read.
Maggie
> "it is easy to fly, simply throw
yourself at the ground, and miss"
>
-adams
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU
YAHOO!?
Get
your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:30:24 -0500
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From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: WSB mentioned on Leno
In-Reply-To:
<v01510100b0dfebf197b2@[146.163.39.50]>
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I saw
that movie too, just the other night but I didnt stick around long
enough
to see that dedication. Im wondering the same thing, whose
dedication
was it?
On Mon,
12 Jan 1998, Gregory J. Conroy wrote:
> At
2:28 AM 1/10/98, Jeff Taylor wrote:
>
>
>Thursday night Robin Williams was on the Tonight Show. Somehow Gus Van
>
>Sant's name was mentioned, and RW described GVS as like "a cross
>
>between Mr Rogers and William Burroughs." This seemed to elicit no
>
>reaction, so RW mumbled something like, "no one know knows what I'm
>
>talking about, do they".
>
> I
saw Good Will Hunting, which was directed by GVS and starred RW, and I
>
noted at the end of the credits that the film--written by Matt Damon and
>
Ben Affleck--was dedicated to WSB and AG.....I wonder if that that was an
>
idea from the writers or from Van Sant?!?
>
> gc
>
>
Gregory J. Conroy
>
Editor of Publications
>
SIU Edwardsville
>
Edwardsville, IL 62026-1027
>
>
"Might as well be frank, monsieur.
> It
would take a miracle to get you
>
out of Casablanca and the Germans
>
have outlawed miracles."
>
>
"Imagination is the voice of daring."
> --Henry
Miller
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:53:06 PST
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From: Julian Ruck
<julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Adams
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yes, the wonderful doug adams...
btw way...i always thought that ford prefect
was a lot like dean
moriarty
in "on the road"...i doubt it was a concious decisioin on adams
part...but
they are similar...
-julian
______________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:26:03 +0100
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From: Sebastian Suarez
<sebastian.suarez@SWIPNET.SE>
Subject: Beats and Jazz question
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Hello
I'm new
here and I am asking for a little help.
In
which way are the beats influenced by jazz?
I
actually don't seem to get it. All that stuff about the poetry being
influence
by jazz rythms. There just seems to be no rythm at all.
Love
Sebastian
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:31:40 +0100
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From: Sebastian Suarez
<sebastian.suarez@SWIPNET.SE>
Subject: Dylan
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Read
about a Dylan convention in the paper today.
It was
in the 19th. One of the topics were "How Ginsberg influenced Bob"
and another
was "Similarities between Kerouac and Bob"
Does
anybody know anything about this?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:50:18 +0000
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From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Beats and Jazz question
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Sebastian
Try
listening more to the poets reading themselves, especially reading
with
jazz, and it will come through better for you.
The stuff of Jack
reading
with Steve Allen playing piano, for instance, I think will show
you
where this is going. You just aren't
seeing in on the page, you have
to hear
the line, and see the way weight shifts between word, the
differences
in the time value of words. Once you
hear the poets
voice--especially
with Kerouac and Ginsberg, you can never hear it another
way.
J.
Stauffer
Sebastian
Suarez wrote:
>
Hello
>
I'm new here and I am asking for a little help.
> In
which way are the beats influenced by jazz?
> I
actually don't seem to get it. All that stuff about the poetry being
>
influence by jazz rythms. There just seems to be no rythm at all.
>
>
Love
>
Sebastian
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:52:47 -0800
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From: Eric Lytle
<e.lytle@CED.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats and Jazz question
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Sebastian
Suarez wrote:
> I
actually don't seem to get it. All that stuff about the poetry being
>
>
influence by jazz rythms. There just seems to be no rythm at all.
If you
haven't already done so, listen to the
Kerouac box set. He was
probably
the most influenced by jazz, and it
shows the most in his
readings. I gained a lot of insight on his writings
after hearing the
words
directly from him.
-E
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:57:49 EST
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From: Mainbooks <Mainbooks@AOL.COM>
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Dear
Sebastian, you wrote regarding the jazz connection with the beats, do you
have
access to a 4 tape boxed set called "The Jack Kerouac Collection, if so,
listen
to all of them and maybe it will be more clear. J. Main.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:19:39 EST
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From: KRUMMX <KRUMMX@AOL.COM>
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Subject: Re: Writing
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ummmmm
i am a poet i guess and have taken a stab
at
writing a few fiction stories in journal format ummmm
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:27:13 -0800
Reply-To: Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Life in the Communes
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Ksenija,
Here is
a bonus bit of info. I thought others might be interested in this
one
too, so I am sending it to the list. If not interested please don't
Flame,
remember Delete.
Did I tell
you what was the biggest problem at our community the Flower
Farm?
Are you
ready for this?
It was
the kitchen sink.
What?,
you say, you couldn't you fix a kitchen
sink problem among all the
dedicated,
intelligent dozen adults of the community?
We
tried all sorts of things to fix the problem, people left because of it,
new
people came with awareness of it, and with plenty of dedication to build
a
healthier life, but the problem stayed unsolved.
To
start with we decided that we were not going to have any rules to follow.
The
rent that we needed was so ridiculously low, the food so cheaply
available, mind expansion opportunities wherever we
looked, social
companionship,
sex, drugs, entertainment, everything that was eating up so
much
energy and good will in the present day world was there for the asking.
It will
be a snap for forward looking aware individuals who cherish this
precious
opportunity, to be sufficiently sensitive to help protect our
idyllic
situation.
In most
important ways the cooperation and participation was indeed
inspiring.
Difficult problems in personal relationships were tackled with
courage,
taboos, jealousies and antipathies were conscientiously worked on.
Housecleaning
did not work too well to begin with and required our first
concession
to dreaded rules.
We
decided to assign cleaning tasks at weekly meetings. That worked.
Everybody
worked together and the Sunday meetings with subsequent work
parties
became fun highlights in our community life. IT WORKED FOR
EVERYTHING
BUT THE KITCHEN SINK.
In the
beginning we thought all of us were responsible idealists enough to
clean
up after ourselves when using the kitchen, to not leave a mess for
others.
But the sink would become quickly filled with unwashed dishes. When
someone
wanted to eat or drink and all the plates or glasses or cups were
unwashed
in the sink, all kinds of resentments were kicking in.
At our
Sunday meetings we passionately considered solutions. In two years we
tried a
whole bunch of them. If you can think of a possible solution, we
probably
tried it. After two years nevertheless the sink collection of dirty
dishes
was as dependable as the seasons. Good sink days, long lasting series
of good
sink days were inevitably vanquished by a sinkful of dirty dishes
with
all the predictable attendant reactions and consequences.
Maybe
someone was running late for a very important meeting or something
that
had a high priority, and surely others would understand, would forgive
one insignificant
cup left in the sink. Sometimes that even worked and
another
person would graciously come along and wash it. Inevitably, however,
someone
would come along and resentfully add his/her unwashed cup. No point
being
responsible when others aren't, etc.. The chances for a third cup or
plate
to be added to the mess increased very rapidly, exponentially. When
the
sink pile-up became significant it became almost like a personal insult
to
dedicated explorers of new lifestyles to even try to clean their own
dishes.
Hey, everybody else is leaving their used up dishes for others to
clean,
why shouldn't I. Perhaps we all knew better, but the knowledge did
not
interfere with events.
I
wouldn't say that our community failed because of it. The
commercialization
of marijuana and the attendant legal problems busted us up
first,
and we did last for a couple of years, but had it not been for that,
the
kitchen sink loomed as the biggest threat to the realization of our
pioneering
efforts and dreams.
Thought
you might be interested to know that the bathroom was no problem,
sexual
taboos and jealousies were dealt with in mature and often very
satisfying
ways, our dreams were not going down the toilet, they ended as
nightmares
in the kitchen sink.
leon
-----Original
Message-----
From:
Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUnet.yu>
To:
Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>
Date:
Monday, January 12, 1998 7:09 AM
Subject:
Re: with a delay
>you've
helped a lot; i wish that i could've experienced it.
>
>>
I am not sure what you mean by "prosper".
>i
didn't mean financially; i wouldn't expect that. i was thinking more
>of
the experience, emotions, what you learnt about yourself...but you
>answered
that also.
>
>all
the best...
>ksenija
>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:32:34 -0500
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From: "James F. Wood 253-7886"
<WOODJ@MAIL.FIRN.EDU>
Subject: Writing
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I also
try to write poems, especially on Vietnam and LOVE or yes LOve
Thanks
Jim
"The OLd Hippie"
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:54:27 -0800
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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats and Jazz question
Mime-Version:
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The
FYI, if you don't have the box set you can hear some snippets at
http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_speaks/kerouacspeaks.html
At
01:57 PM 1/12/98 EST, you wrote:
>Dear
Sebastian, you wrote regarding the jazz connection with the beats, do you
>have
access to a 4 tape boxed set called "The Jack Kerouac Collection, if so,
>listen
to all of them and maybe it will be more clear. J. Main.
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:20:45 -0800
Reply-To: Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats and Jazz question
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Hi Tim,
Got ta
tell you the truth, I almost forgot your page. It came at me looking
real
good! Now I just will have to look up your stories. Thanks for the
pleasant
surprise.
leon
-----Original
Message-----
From:
Timothy K. Gallaher <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date:
Monday, January 12, 1998 12:06 PM
Subject:
Re: Beats and Jazz question
>The
FYI, if you don't have the box set you can hear some snippets at
>
>http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_speaks/kerouacspeaks.html
>
>
>
>At
01:57 PM 1/12/98 EST, you wrote:
>>Dear
Sebastian, you wrote regarding the jazz connection with the beats, do
you
>>have
access to a 4 tape boxed set called "The Jack Kerouac Collection, if
so,
>>listen
to all of them and maybe it will be more clear. J. Main.
>>
>>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:37:11 +0000
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Life in the Communes
Comments:
To: Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>
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Leon,
Thanks
for this wonderful piece. It fits
beautifully with my own recollections
of Crow
Farm outside Eugene. All boils down the
the problem of dealing with
"the
tragedy of the commons." Sexual
jealousy, all manner of personal problems
were
easier to deal with than everybodies differeing sense of responsibility for
household
maintance.
Well,
at Crow Farm there were the guys who would sell car batteries for beer,
rendering
much of the fleet immobile--but even that was easier to deal with.
Leon
Tabory wrote:
>
Ksenija,
>
>
Here is a bonus bit of info. I thought others might be interested in this
>
one too, so I am sending it to the list. If not interested please don't
>
Flame, remember Delete.
>
>
Did I tell you what was the biggest problem at our community the Flower
>
Farm?
>
>
Are you ready for this?
>
> It
was the kitchen sink.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:02:35 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: main user
<mparsons@PARTECHSOLUTIONS.COM>
Subject: Re: Writing
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I saw
your posting on BEAT-L and was interested to know what (in all genuine
honesty)
you consider literature. The reason I
ask is purely curiousity on
my
part, as I do often take up the pen but hesitate to label it
"literature"...
i prefer the mad ravings of a delinquent, anti- social mind.
bounce
back with any thoughts.
best
regards,
mick
"When
I was young, I belived in God, but as I got older, it was my desire to
see God
that kept me from seeing what was here on Earth"
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:13:59 +0000
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Writing
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That,
my friend is an awfully large question, and I have different answers on
different
days.
James
main
user wrote:
> I
saw your posting on BEAT-L and was interested to know what (in all genuine
>
honesty) you consider literature. The
reason I ask is purely curiousity on
> my
part, as I do often take up the pen but hesitate to label it
>
"literature"... i prefer the mad ravings of a delinquent, anti-
social mind.
>
>
bounce back with any thoughts.
>
>
best regards,
>
>
mick
>
>
"When I was young, I belived in God, but as I got older, it was my desire
to
>
see God that kept me from seeing what was here on Earth"
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:23:59 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher
<tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization:
art language wholsale retail
Subject: nicosea
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i
checked out the kerouac quarterly page last night, and never could get
into
the chat room, but i was surprised to see all the negative stuff
there
about gerald nicosea and his fine kerouac bio memory babe.
i'm
completely at a loss as to why this is. nicosea did an excellent
piece
of research and his archieves are top notch.
he was the only
person
to find and interview a whole bunch of people, many of whom have
died or
disappeared, and while some of what he wrote may be unpleasant,
i
assume he has a specific reference for everything he wrote
the
archive is huge and a goldmine for researchers and should be open to
the
public
tkc
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:25:49 -0800
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Mary Maconnell
<MMACONNELL@MAIL.EWU.EDU>
Subject: Used bookstore finds
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So
after not having read any Burroughs I went searching and found
"Naked
Lunch," "Soft Light,"(?) and "The Wild Boys." I also found
Ferlinghetti's
"Coney Island of the Mind" which is excellent.
I'm starting
with "The Wild Boys" but now am wondering why. I'm a little
bit
into chapter 3 and it's so weird thus far and I'm wondering if there's
any
advice anyone can give a person not yet versed with Burroughs.
Thanks
--
Mary
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:30:16 +0000
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: nicosea
Comments:
To: tkc@zipcon.com
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Tom
There
are folks who love and revere Gerry Nicosia and those who feel very
differently. Paul Maher of the Kerouac Quarterly is one
of the latter. We
have
been through very ugly wars on this list repeatedly over GN's issues
with
the Kerouac Estate (if I dare utter those dreaded words). I for one
would
greatly hate to see it break out again. If you had been through an
"Estate
War" I expect you would too. The
mention of Gerry's name just seems
to
start wars. Do the research on both
sides, there is alot out there on
various
web sites. I would hate to see it back
here.
Begging,
pleading
James
Stauffer
Tom
Christopher wrote:
> i
checked out the kerouac quarterly page last night, and never could get
>
into the chat room, but i was surprised to see all the negative stuff
>
there about gerald nicosea and his fine kerouac bio memory babe.
>
>
i'm completely at a loss as to why this is. nicosea did an excellent
>
piece of research and his archieves are top notch. he was the only
>
person to find and interview a whole bunch of people, many of whom have
>
died or disappeared, and while some of what he wrote may be unpleasant,
> i
assume he has a specific reference for everything he wrote
>
>
the archive is huge and a goldmine for researchers and should be open to
>
the public
>
>
tkc
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:41:17 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sorted <junky@BURROUGHS.NET>
Subject: Re: Used bookstore finds
In-Reply-To: <01ISALLNAQBM8Y8DWC@mail.ewu.edu>
Mime-Version:
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>I'm
starting with "The Wild Boys" but now am wondering why. I'm a little
>bit
into chapter 3 and it's so weird thus far and I'm wondering if there's
>any
advice anyone can give a person not yet versed with Burroughs.
>
The
best advice, drawing from my own experience: start at the beginning,
with
Junky, and read in chronological order according to when the books
were
written. of course, wsb is quoted saying his books could be cut into
at any
point, but reading them in the order they were written gives a nice
picture
of his style's development, and gradually introduces you to his
symbolism
and the various rythms of his career. Junky is narrative, then
Yage
Letters, written with Ginsberg, is narrative under the correspondence
umbrella,
and then Queer, which starts out stylistically similar to Junky,
but
then begins to fragment into the style that surfaces in Naked Lunch...
and so
on.
worked
for me!
-s
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:52:55 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Greg Beaver-Seitz
<hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Used bookstore finds
Content-Type:
text/plain
>So
after not having read any Burroughs I went searching and found
>"Naked
Lunch," "Soft Light,"(?) and "The Wild Boys." I also found
>Ferlinghetti's
"Coney Island of the Mind" which is excellent.
>
>I'm
starting with "The Wild Boys" but now am wondering why. I'm a
little
>bit
into chapter 3 and it's so weird thus far and I'm wondering if
there's
>any
advice anyone can give a person not yet versed with Burroughs.
>
>Thanks
--
>Mary
>
One
word:
Heroin.
-Greg
* * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*
Ginsberg etc. *
*
http://members.tripod.com/~Sprayberry *
*
Dozens of poems, pictures, info *
* * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:04:25 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mary Maconnell
<mmaconnell@MAIL.EWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Used bookstore finds
In-Reply-To:
<v03102802b0e04ae75788@[206.190.9.145]>
MIME-version:
1.0
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Yeah,
but what if I couldn't find Junky and don't have the heart to buy
that
and the others new? :)
Mary
(P.S.
Greg's comment was pretty damned funny!)
On Mon,
12 Jan 1998, Sorted wrote:
>
>I'm starting with "The Wild Boys" but now am wondering why. I'm a little
>
>bit into chapter 3 and it's so weird thus far and I'm wondering if there's
>
>any advice anyone can give a person not yet versed with Burroughs.
>
>
>
>
>
The best advice, drawing from my own experience: start at the beginning,
>
with Junky, and read in chronological order according to when the books
>
were written. of course, wsb is quoted saying his books could be cut into
> at
any point, but reading them in the order they were written gives a nice
>
picture of his style's development, and gradually introduces you to his
>
symbolism and the various rythms of his career. Junky is narrative, then
>
Yage Letters, written with Ginsberg, is narrative under the correspondence
>
umbrella, and then Queer, which starts out stylistically similar to Junky,
>
but then begins to fragment into the style that surfaces in Naked Lunch...
>
>
and so on.
>
>
worked for me!
>
> -s
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:12:47 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: TO:
Friends of David Rhaesa
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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As many
of you may have figured out from his posts this weekend, David
experienced
a "manic" phase. He is
currently in the Salina Regional
Medical
Center for a couple days to be evaluated and get his medication
on
track again. He asked that I notify all
his e-mail friends and let
them
know of his situation and this seemed the best way to do it. We
expect
he will be home soon and he will be in touch with all of you at
that
time. If, for any reason, he is in the
hospital for a longer period
of
time, I will post his full mailing address.
Let's all give as much
support
to him as we possibly can and hope he is able to be back with us
soon.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:56:18 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: randy royal <randyr@SOUTHEAST.NET>
Subject: Re: nicosea
Comments:
To: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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what do you guys think? how about an amendment?
>Date:
Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:53:51 +0000
>From:
James Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
>Reply-To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
>X-Mailer:
Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
>To:
randy royal <randyr@southeast.net>
>Subject:
Re: nicosea
>
>Randy
>
>I
would certainly second that one!
>
>some
rule such as "no postings on the Kerouac Estate Controversy except the
>posting
of actual results of actuals trials."
>
>James
>
>randy
royal wrote:
>
>>
well said. perhaps somebody could talk bill gargan into adding an extra
>>
clause like this on the registration message?
>>
randy
>
>
>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:03:27 +0000
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: TO:
Friends of David Rhaesa
MIME-Version:
1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding:
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>
Diane
Thanks
for the note, and to paraphrase, tell David, we are with him in the
Salina
Regional Medical Center . . .
James
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:14:09 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: TKQ <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Chat Room is Open Now!
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for
those who want to try it...it is open now.
Go to
the web page below,
Click
on the link that says Chat Room,
Once it
opens up, type in a nickname, choose a version, I recommend the
"Lite"
version for faster loading,
It
should open up to the page connecting you to the room.
Type in
your say and hit ENTER.
Hope to
see some of you there! Paul...
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.html
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:11:09 -0800
Reply-To: Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: TO:
Friends of David Rhaesa
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Can David
receive e-mail in the hospital? Probably not, but I thought I'd
ask.
Best wishes to you, David
leon
-----Original
Message-----
From:
Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date:
Monday, January 12, 1998 5:03 PM
Subject:
TO: Friends of David Rhaesa
>As
many of you may have figured out from his posts this weekend, David
>experienced
a "manic" phase. He is
currently in the Salina Regional
>Medical
Center for a couple days to be evaluated and get his medication
>on
track again. He asked that I notify all
his e-mail friends and let
>them
know of his situation and this seemed the best way to do it. We
>expect
he will be home soon and he will be in touch with all of you at
>that
time. If, for any reason, he is in the
hospital for a longer period
>of
time, I will post his full mailing address.
Let's all give as much
>support
to him as we possibly can and hope he is able to be back with us
>soon.
>DC
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:12:52 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: nicosea
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I would
include no talking about how much you like to whine about the so
called
estate battle. There are more posts
like than than acrimonious
estate
battles.
Or how
bout no more posts about what books get stole the most or who is
beat
and so on and so on and scoobydoobydo on
where
does it stop.
Why the
keepers of the estate hate Nicosia so much up to the irrational
level I
have seen is hard to understand.
But of
course Nicosia put them on the map and is lining their pockets.
And of
course Nicosia wasn't alone (Charters, Lee and Gifford, McNally also
share
in the making the estate a profitable enterprise). Without the
scholars
and working writers like Nicosia and aforesaid folks kerouac would
not be
near the halfway decent cash cow he is today.
The
estate folks should fall down on their kneww and thank jerry Nicosia.
>what do you guys think? how about an amendment?
>>Date:
Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:53:51 +0000
>>From:
James Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
>>Reply-To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
>>X-Mailer:
Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
>>To:
randy royal <randyr@southeast.net>
>>Subject:
Re: nicosea
>>
>>Randy
>>
>>I
would certainly second that one!
>>
>>some
rule such as "no postings on the Kerouac Estate Controversy except the
>>posting
of actual results of actuals trials."
>>
>>James
>>
>>randy
royal wrote:
>>
>>>
well said. perhaps somebody could talk bill gargan into adding an extra
>>>
clause like this on the registration message?
>>>
randy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:17:16 -0600
Reply-To: cawilkie@comic.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cathy Wilkie
<cawilkie@COMIC.NET>
Subject: Marie Countryman
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
I just
wanted to let you all know that I am going to meet Marie
Countryman
in Chicago on her return trip home.
She has a three-hour
layover
there, which I am sure will be spent downing many pints,
talking,
laughing, and getting her psyched up for the rest of her
journey.
I heard
from her the other day, she was saying something about probably
being
incommunicado until she returns home, as she was spending the last
few
days of her stay somewhere other than where she had been staying.
(I'm
pretty sure this info is correct. Leon,
can you verify this?)
She
should be back home I figure by Sunday night or monday morning.
I'll
let you all know how the meeting goes, and if any of you have
personal
messages and/or encouragement for our wandering Marie, please
e-mail
them to me by Thursday night so I can print them out to take to
her
when I see her on Saturday.
Later,
dudes,
cathy
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:41:31 +0000
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: nicosia
MIME-Version:
1.0
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text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Timothy,
And why
Nicosia hates the heirs (which is more accurate than keepers at least
until
the court speaks) is equally unfathomable.
That is what makes this debate
so
hopeless. Sort of reminds one of Bosnia or Northern Ireland.
James
Stauffer
Timothy
K. Gallaher wrote:
>
Why the keepers of the estate hate Nicosia so much up to the irrational
>
level I have seen is hard to understand.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 23:51:38 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher
<tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization:
art language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: nicosea
MIME-Version:
1.0
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text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp
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gosh
everybody, lets lay off the espresso and take a bonghit, i
shouldnta
spoke outta turn
apologies
<snipp'd
for arts sake> wrote:
>
> I
would include battle posts like books get
>
beat and so on and so on and scoobydoobydo on
>
>
where does it stop.
>
>
Why the keepers of the hate so much up to the irrational
>
level I have seen is hard to understand.
>
>
But of course, put them on the map, lining their pockets alone,
>
share in the
>
scholars and working folks kerouac would
> be near the cow. he is today.
>
>
The folks should fall down on their knees and thank an amendment?
> >>I
would certainly second that one!
>
>>
>
>>some rule such as "Kerouac
>
>>posting of actual results of actuals trials."
>
>>> well said. perhaps somebody could talk like this on the
registration
message?
thanx
to ol bull lee for the inspiration
geez if
i wanted to freak people out i woulda just posted more christian
stuff
love
and peace
tkc
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:34:08 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: nicosia
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Tom, I
wasn't and didn't respond to your post about the estate. And If you
think
my post in response to James' was somehow unmellow I didn't percieve
or mean
it that way.
My
point in this has always been that I like to hear about the estate
battle
and accept the vitriol soewed at Jerry and his masterly rhetorically
heavy
responses as part of the package.
My
point is also that, sure, I know some people don't like controversy and
shy
away from any conflict. Consequently
they don't like hearing the
argument
going on when it is going on.
But
some people like it and some people like other things. There are posts
and
topics I don't care about too much but wouldn't ever think to say "
Please
don't talk about that"
Feel
free to "freak us out"
No need
to apologize, and it seems actually you are the one freaked out in
this
instance.
I guess
the crack about the estate boys getting down on their knees to
thank
Nicosia was over the top but that's the fun part. Nicosia and the
other
biographers definately had a strong role in bringing kerouac's work
to the
fore and due in part to that kerouac is more popular than ever.
But as
you know the real reason for my post was so Tom could use the words
to make
his cool cutup spop brosady as seen below.
>gosh
everybody, lets lay off the espresso and take a bonghit, i
>shouldnta
spoke outta turn
>
>apologies
>
>
>
><snipp'd
for arts sake> wrote:
>>
>>
I would include battle posts like books get
>>
beat and so on and so on and scoobydoobydo on
>>
>>
where does it stop.
>>
>>
Why the keepers of the hate so much up to the irrational
>>
level I have seen is hard to understand.
>>
>>
But of course, put them on the map, lining their pockets alone,
>>
share in the
>>
scholars and working folks kerouac would
>> be near the cow. he is today.
>>
>>
The folks should fall down on their knees and thank an amendment?
>
>>
>>I would certainly second that one!
>>
>>
>>
>>some rule such as "Kerouac
>>
>>posting of actual results of actuals trials."
>
>>
>>> well said. perhaps somebody could talk like this on the
registration
>
message?
>
>thanx
to ol bull lee for the inspiration
>
>geez
if i wanted to freak people out i woulda just posted more christian
>stuff
>
>love
and peace
>
>tkc
Bakatcha,
TKG
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:34:20 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Kerouac Buddhism vs. Catholicism
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
How
does the first Noble Truth that all life is suffering differ from
Romans
8:22 "For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in
pain
together until now."?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:57:40 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: TO: Friends of David Rhaesa--Update
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Hi
everyone,
It
looks like David will be in the hospital for more than a couple of
days. Here is the address for any of you that want
to send him cards,
best
wishes, things to cheer him up, etc.
Phone calls are not a good
idea at
this point and he does not have access to e-mail in the hospital.
Anyone
wishing to send him an e-mail message can send it to me and I will
print
them out, along with the many I have already received, and get them
to
him. His address is:
David
Rhaesa
Salina
Regional Medical Center
Room
107, North Wing
400 S.
Santa Fe
Salina,
KS 67401
Let's
all keep him in our thoughts and prayers. I'm sure all of the
positive
vibes will help a great deal!
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 06:36:28 -0800
Reply-To: Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: Marie Countryman
Comments:
To: cawilkie@comic.net
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
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<<SNIP>>
>I
heard from her the other day, she was saying something about probably
>being
incommunicado until she returns home, as she was spending the last
>few
days of her stay somewhere other than where she had been staying.
>(I'm
pretty sure this info is correct. Leon,
can you verify this?)
>
cathy
To the
best of my knowledge:
marie
is visiting Ann Marie since Sunday. Ann Marie is not connected to the
internet.
Tonight James will take her to visit him at Redwood City. She
probably
can get to her Hot Mail account at James's. She leaves on the
Zephyr
for Chicago early Thursday morning.
leon
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:30:27 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats and Jazz question
In-Reply-To: <199801121825.TAA27703@mb05.swip.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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A good
explanation of that can be found in Good Blonde and Others, the
piece
entitled, "The History of Bop" or something like that.
On Mon,
12 Jan 1998, Sebastian Suarez wrote:
>
Hello
>
I'm new here and I am asking for a little help.
> In
which way are the beats influenced by jazz?
> I
actually don't seem to get it. All that stuff about the poetry being
>
influence by jazz rythms. There just seems to be no rythm at all.
>
>
Love
>
Sebastian
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:47:23 -0500
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: TO: Friends of David Rhaesa--Update
Reply
to message from dcarter@TOGETHER.NET of Tue, 13 Jan
I must
have missed soemthing...what happened to him???
Diane.
(H)
>
>Hi
everyone,
>
>It
looks like David will be in the hospital for more than a couple of
>days. Here is the address for any of you that want
to send him cards,
>best
wishes, things to cheer him up, etc.
Phone calls are not a good
>idea
at this point and he does not have access to e-mail in the hospital.
>Anyone
wishing to send him an e-mail message can send it to me and I will
>print
them out, along with the many I have already received, and get them
>to
him. His address is:
>
>David
Rhaesa
>Salina
Regional Medical Center
>Room
107, North Wing
>400
S. Santa Fe
>Salina,
KS 67401
>
>Let's
all keep him in our thoughts and prayers. I'm sure all of the
>positive
vibes will help a great deal!
>DC
>
>
--
"This
is Beat. Live your lives out? Naw, _love_ your lives out!"
--Jack
Kerouac
Diane
Marie Homza
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:49:22 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: TO: Friends of David Rhaesa--Update
Comments:
To: "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu>
In-Reply-To:
<199801131547.KAA09567@owl.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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Im
wondering the same thing...
On Tue,
13 Jan 1998, Diane M. Homza wrote:
>
Reply to message from dcarter@TOGETHER.NET of Tue, 13 Jan
>
> I
must have missed soemthing...what happened to him???
>
>
Diane. (H)
>
>
>
>
>
>Hi everyone,
>
>
>
>It looks like David will be in the hospital for more than a couple of
>
>days. Here is the address for any
of you that want to send him cards,
>
>best wishes, things to cheer him up, etc.
Phone calls are not a good
>
>idea at this point and he does not have access to e-mail in the hospital.
>
>Anyone wishing to send him an e-mail message can send it to me and I will
>
>print them out, along with the many I have already received, and get them
>
>to him. His address is:
>
>
>
>David Rhaesa
>
>Salina Regional Medical Center
>
>Room 107, North Wing
>
>400 S. Santa Fe
>
>Salina, KS 67401
>
>
>
>Let's all keep him in our thoughts and prayers. I'm sure all of the
>
>positive vibes will help a great deal!
>
>DC
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
"This is Beat. Live your lives
out? Naw, _love_ your lives out!"
> --Jack
Kerouac
>
Diane Marie Homza
>
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 07:37:37 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Fw: Re: TO: Friends of David Rhaesa
David
will be in the hospital for about 2 weeks.
i think it would really
>help
him to receive cards, letters, little gifties while he's there. just
>be
sure that there is nothing wildly out-there thinking-wise. he just need
>to
know what a wide support base he has, and how much we believe he'll be
>back
to himself in no time. so send him you're love and encouragement and
>anything
grounding you can think of.
>
>will
keep you all posted as i get more info.
>
>ciao,
sherri
>
>Salina
Regional Health Center
>400
S. Santa Fe, Room 107, North Wing
>Salina
Regional Health Center,
>400
S. Santa Fe
>Salina,
KS 67401.
>
>
>
>-----Original
Message-----
>From:
Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
>To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Date:
Monday, January 12, 1998 7:10 PM
>Subject:
Re: TO: Friends of David Rhaesa
>
>
>>Can
David receive e-mail in the hospital? Probably not, but I thought I'd
>>ask.
Best wishes to you, David
>>
>>leon
>>-----Original
Message-----
>>From:
Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
>>To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>>Date:
Monday, January 12, 1998 5:03 PM
>>Subject:
TO: Friends of David Rhaesa
>>
>>
>>>As
many of you may have figured out from his posts this weekend, David
>>>experienced
a "manic" phase. He is
currently in the Salina Regional
>>>Medical
Center for a couple days to be evaluated and get his medication
>>>on
track again. He asked that I notify all
his e-mail friends and let
>>>them
know of his situation and this seemed the best way to do it. We
>>>expect
he will be home soon and he will be in touch with all of you at
>>>that
time. If, for any reason, he is in the
hospital for a longer period
>>>of
time, I will post his full mailing address.
Let's all give as much
>>>support
to him as we possibly can and hope he is able to be back with us
>>>soon.
>>>DC
>>>
>>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:59:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: TO: Friends of David Rhaesa
In-Reply-To:
<036444339150d18UPIMSSMTPUSR02@email.msn.com>
Mime-Version:
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Pardon
my ignorance but whats a manic phase?
~Nancy
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:37:58 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher
<tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization:
art language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: Kerouac Buddhism vs. Catholicism
MIME-Version:
1.0
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text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp
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Timothy
K. Gallaher wrote:
>
>
How does the first Noble Truth that all life is suffering differ from
>
Romans 8:22 "For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth
in
>
pain together until now."?
it
doesn't. what separates buddhism from
christianity is the solution
(tho
that's the wrong word) to the question, "ok, then, what next)
buddhism
is a good system of psychology, and anyone can benefit from the
buddhist
practice of sitting still, shutting up and listening to and
monitoring
one's thoughts for an hour (or twelve), and checking out how
our
thoughts structure the world as we understand it
in this
here 1998 world we're told to listen to our inner child.
buddhism
tells us we got no inner child, just a chattering monkey, and
that
said monkey ain't always the most purposeful thing to listen to
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:43:42 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher
<tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization:
art language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: Beats and Jazz question
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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7bit
there's
a (japanese?) group called UFO that did a great sampled
soundtrack
to an old kerouac reading, which i think is part of the
subterranians
for me,
they capture kerouac's spoken rythms much better than the older
stuff
on the boxed rhino set
tkc
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 01:15:48 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: TO: Friends of David Rhaesa--Update
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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Content-Transfer-Encoding:
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As some
of you have asked why he is in the hospital and about what a
"manic"
phase is, I'll try to descibe it as best I can. David suffers
from a
mental disorder, sometimes described as bi-polar condition or
manic
depressive, although I hestitate to label it myself. He has been
functioning
well on medication. Any change in
medication or anxiety or
simply
a change in body chemistry can throw him off.
No one truly knows
what
causes these phases. A manic phase is when he becomes irrational and
out of
touch with reality and is unable to function normally on a day to
day
basis. His emotions fluxuate wildly.
David voluntarily admitted
himself
to the hospital for evaluation and the
doctors will try to get
him
stabilizated on the right combination of meds.
As you may have
noticed
in the messages he sent to the list this weekend his mind is
simply
in a different place and his thought processes are not coherent.
As Sherri
pointed out it will probably be a couple weeks before he
adjusts
to new medication. In the meantime
let's all send him all of our
best
wishes and let him know he is not alone and that we are with him.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:15:18 -0800
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@email.msn.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri
<love_singing@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: TO: Friends of David Rhaesa
Nancy,
David is a bipolar manic depressive.
sherri
-----Original
Message-----
From:
Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date:
Tuesday, January 13, 1998 8:00 AM
Subject:
Re: Fw: Re: TO: Friends of David Rhaesa
>Pardon
my ignorance but whats a manic phase?
>~Nancy
>
>The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
>Sure-JK
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:08:25 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Friends of David Rhaesa
Comments:
To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Please,
Diane, tell to David
my best
wishes he comes back
to us.
David,
cari
saluti dall'Italia,
dal tuo
amico Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:35:14 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: TO:
Friends of David Rhaesa
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
10:59 AM 1/13/98 -0500, Nancy wrote:
>Pardon
my ignorance but whats a manic phase?
It is
at the opposite pole from depression.
It is
an
unusally high state of exhilaration.
People
in a
manic phase are expansive to an extent that
is out
of character, and instead of feeling fatigued
and
listless, the manic person is full of energy.
Another
symptom of a manic phase is the person
speaks
fast, and dramatically, often with many
jokes
and puns. It is extremely rare that
people
only
suffer from manic episodes, depression usually
alternates
with mania. Bipolar disorder is also
known
as
manic-depressive disorder. There is
evidence that
supports
a genetic connection. There have been
studies
conducted
with twins that showed that where one twin
from
monozygotic twins had bipolar disorder, so did the
other,
in more than 70 percent of cases. In
the studies
of
dizygotic twins where one twin has bipolar disorder, both
twins
have bipolar disorder in less than 15 percent of cases.
It is
treated with lithium bicarbonate, and if this doesn't
work
there are two other drugs that are commonly used
to help
dampen severe manic episodes: carbamazepine
(Tegretol)
and valproate (Depakene). Both are
anti-
convulsants. The use of antidepressants can cause
the
risk of triggering manic episodes.
There
are a number of artists and writers who probably
suffered
from bipolar disorder, they are: poets Lord
Byron
and Anne Sexton, novelists Virginia Woolf and
Ernest
Hemingway, composers Peter Ilich Tchaikovsky
and
Sergey Rachmaninoff, and painters Amedeo
Modigliani
and Jackson Pollock.
Hope
this was a help?
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:38:56 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Dylan
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
07:31 PM 1/12/98 +0100, Sebastian Suarez wrote:
>Read
about a Dylan convention in the paper today.
>It
was in the 19th.
<snip>
>Does
anybody know anything about this?
It is
taking place at Stanford and I can't
remember
the date that it takes place.
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:48:05 +0000
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Dylan
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
If my
memory serves it was last Monday, but I don't have the paper in
front
of me
James
M.
Cakebread wrote:
> At
07:31 PM 1/12/98 +0100, Sebastian Suarez wrote:
>
>
>Read about a Dylan convention in the paper today.
>
>It was in the 19th.
>
<snip>
>
>Does anybody know anything about this?
>
> It
is taking place at Stanford and I can't
>
remember the date that it takes place.
>
>
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:57:24 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jim Dimock <juancito@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: TO:
Friends of David Rhaesa
de-lurking
for a moment to wish David best wishes. We miss you Race!
Jim
There
but for the grace of God goes I...
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:29:53 -0800
Reply-To: Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: TO: Friends of David Rhaesa
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
multipart/mixed;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01BD2027.55583760"
This is
a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BD2027.55583760
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text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
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>Pardon
my ignorance but whats a manic phase?
>~Nancy
Hi
Nancy,
A
problem with answers by non experts is that sometimes not everything is
correct
and may lead to further confusion.
Do you
realize how much interesting information is available at your
fingertips
on the internet? Amazing! You want to know about bipolar disorder
(formerly
Manic Depressive Disorder)? all the info you want is at your
fingertips.
Infoseek gave me the best results when I typed Bipolar Disorder.
I am
attaching a web page by an artist who suffers from it. I know you
already
have two answers, but one of them includes symptoms that are from
other
complicating factors, not strictly from Bipolar problems. The URL is
from
Mayo Clinic, a very reliable source.
http://www.mayohealth.org/mayo/9609/htm/bipolar.htm
Hopefully
I am not adding confusion
leon
>
>The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
>Sure-JK
>
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BD2027.55583760
Content-Type:
text/html;
name="bipolar.html"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable
Content-Disposition:
attachment;
filename="bipolar.html"
=0D =0D <HTML>
=0D<HEAD><TITLE>Bipolar Disorder</TITLE></HEAD>
=0D<BODY =
TEXT=3D"#F9AEAC"
LINK=3D"#E6BFBE" VLINK=3D"#C6D2F3"
ALINK=3D"#000000" =
BACKGROUND=3D"Gifs/rotten_eggs.jpg"><!--
BEGIN BODY HEADER SECTION =
-->=0D<!--
BEGIN MAIN BODY SECTION --><center><!-- Graphic Tag --><IMG =
WIDTH=3D343
HEIGHT=3D50 ALT=3D"Part of the Bipolar Information Network" =
SRC=3D"Gifs/binbanner.gif"
=
BORDER=3D2></center><BR><BR>=0D=0D=0D<BR>=0D<BR><TABLE
=
BORDER=3D5>=0D<TR><TD>=0D<IMG
SRC=3D"Gifs/TwoFaces.jpg" height=3D160 =
width=3D260
align=3Dleft ALT=3D"two faces"><B><FONT SIZE=3D7 =
COLOR=3D"#C6D2F3"><CENTER>Bipolar
Disorder:</CENTER><BR></FONT>=0D =
<B><FONT
SIZE=3D6 COLOR=3D"#C6D2F3"><I><CENTER>The Artist
Formerly Known =
as Manic
=
Depression</CENTER></I></B></FONT></B></TD></TR>=0D</TABLE>=0D<BR>=0D<BR>=
<CENTER>Updated
Sept. 29, 1997</CENTER><P>=0D=0D<!-- Horizontal Line Tag =
--><HR
ALIGN=3DCenter>=0D<BR><FONT
SIZE=3D4>=0D<BR>=0D<CENTER><B>Are you =
in the
St. Louis area? Visit us at The Empowerment Center.<BR>=0D Or =
call us
at the <!-- Link Tag --><A =
HREF=3D"http://www.dmda.org">Depressive
and Manic Depressive Association =
(DMDA)</A>.=0D</CENTER><BR>=0D=0D=0D<!--
Link Tag --><A =
HREF=3D"http://www.ndmda.org/"><CENTER>Or
visit the National DMDA =
Site.</CENTER></A><BR><BR>=0D=0D=0D<CENTER><IMG
=
SRC=3D"Gifs/flurline.gif"
WIDTH=3D448 HEIGHT=3D23 =
ALT=3D"divider"></CENTER>=0D<BR>=0D<BR>=0D=0D=0D<UL>Bipolar
disorder, or =
manic
depression, is a mental illness affecting as many as 3 million =
Americans,
and for one-third of patients, it takes over a decade to =
finally
get the correct diagnosis.<P></UL>=0D=0D<UL>It is
characterized =
by mood
swings, from deep, suicidal depressions, to grand, delusional =
manias.
Some researchers theorize that bipolar disorder is not one, but =
a group
of many similar illnesses.<P></UL>=0D=0D<UL>The disease,
thought =
to
result from an imbalance of chemicals in the brain called =
neurotransmitters,
often begins to make itself known in the late teens, =
but the
average age of diagnosis is 28. It is not uncommon to find a =
trail
of destruction left behind during those years of misdiagnosis, as =
well as
finding relief in self-medication (alcohol, prescription and =
illegal
drugs)<P></UL>=0D=0D=0D<UL>As many as 20 percent will
eventually =
die
from this disease, committing suicide to escape its torment. There =
is
hope, however, with proper medical treatment and support from one's =
loved
ones.</UL>=0D<BR></B>=0D<BR><BR>=0D=0D=0D<BR><CENTER><IMG
=
SRC=3D"Gifs/flurline.gif"
WIDTH=3D448 HEIGHT=3D23 =
ALT=3D"divider"></CENTER>=0D=0D<BR><BR>=0D=0D<B>=0D=0D<FONT
=
SIZE=3D5><CENTER><B>Creativity
and bipolar =
disorder</B></CENTER><BR>=0D</FONT><BR>=0D=0D<BLOCKQUOTE>=0DI
am =
interested
in the connection between bipolar disorder and artistic =
creativity.
Perhaps it's my way of trying to find the silver lining in =
that
constant storm known as bipolar =
disorder.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>=0D<BR>=0D=0D
<IMG SRC=3D"Gifs/u144.gif" =
ALIGN=3DLEFT
HEIGHT=3D12 WIDTH=3D12 ALT=3D"Button"> <!-- Link Tag
--><A =
HREF=3D"bipolar/blessings.html">Blessings
from the Dark =
Side</A>=0D<UL>=0DThis
is a book review of Kaye Gibbons' book, "Sights =
Unseen."
But it's more than a review, taking a look at how the author =
channels
manic depression into a creative river of prose.</UL><BR>=0D=0D =
<IMG
SRC=3D"Gifs/u144.gif" ALIGN=3DABS MIDDLE HEIGHT=3D12 WIDTH=3D12 =
ALT=3D"Button">
<!-- Link Tag --><A =
HREF=3D"http://frostbite.umd.edu/~cass/text/mania.html">Manic
depression =
and
creativity</A>. <ul>=0DThis article by Kay Jamison. examines the =
link
between the illness and artistic personality. </ul><BR>=0D=0D=0D=0D
=
=0D
<IMG SRC=3D"Gifs/u144.gif" ALIGN=3DLEFT HEIGHT=3D12 WIDTH=3D12 =
ALT=3D"Button">
From <!-- Link Tag --><A HREF=3D"ptoday.html">Psychology
=
Today</A><UL>More
on the link between art and madness.</UL>=0D =
<BR>=0D=0D=0D
<IMG SRC=3D"Gifs/u144.gif" ALIGN=3DLEFT HEIGHT=3D12 =
WIDTH=3D12
ALT=3D"Button"> <!-- Link Tag --><A =
HREF=3D"bipolar/discover.html">Discover
Magazine</A><UL>This article =
takes
an in-depth look at the link between bipolar disorder and =
creativity.
It examines studies, and looks at both the positive and =
negative
aspects of the issue.</UL>=0D <BR><BR>=0D=0D<CENTER><IMG
=
SRC=3D"Gifs/flurline.gif"
WIDTH=3D448 HEIGHT=3D23 =
ALT=3D"divider"></CENTER>=0D<BR><BR>=0D<BR>=0D=0D=0D<B><CENTER><FONT
=
SIZE=3D5>Medical
issues surrounding bipolar =
disorder</FONT></CENTER></B><BR>=0D<BR>=0D=0D
<IMG SRC=3D"Gifs/u144.gif" =
ALIGN=3DLEFT
HEIGHT=3D12 WIDTH=3D12 ALT=3D"Button"> An article from <!-- =
Link
Tag --><A HREF=3D"ap.html">Associated Press</A>
<UL>This article =
examines
the reasons for the prolonged delay in diagnosis of bipolar =
disorder.</UL>=0D
<BR>=0D=0D=0D=0D <IMG SRC=3D"Gifs/u144.gif" =
ALIGN=3DLEFT
HEIGHT=3D12 WIDTH=3D12 ALT=3D"Button"><!-- Link Tag --><A
=
HREF=3D"bipolar/lking.html">Larry
King</A> <UL> In April, Larry King did =
a show
on depression with Mike Wallace, Naomi Judd, Art Buchwald and Dr. =
Kay
Jamison. This is the transcript of that program.</UL>=0D <BR> =
=0D=0D=0D
<IMG SRC=3D"Gifs/u144.gif" ALIGN=3DLEFT HEIGHT=3D12 WIDTH=3D12 =
ALT=3D"Button">
<!-- Link Tag --><A =
HREF=3D"bipolar/relapse.html">Relapse</A><UL>An
interesting article on =
relapse
during the use of SSRIs, and the strategies doctors use to =
combat
that "poop-out" so many of us have experienced.=0D</UL>
<BR>=0D =
<IMG
SRC=3D"Gifs/u144.gif" ALIGN=3DLEFT HEIGHT=3D12 WIDTH=3D12 =
ALT=3D"Button"> <!-- Link Tag --><A
HREF=3D"bipolar/post.html">Kay =
Jamison</A>
<UL>A great interview with Kay Jamison, from the Saturday =
Evening
Post. </UL> <BR>=0D=0D=0D <IMG SRC=3D"Gifs/u144.gif" =
ALIGN=3DLEFT
HEIGHT=3D12 WIDTH=3D12 ALT=3D"Button"> <!-- Link Tag
--><A =
HREF=3D"http://www.sltrib.com/96/JUN/09/twr/01120223.htm">Battling
Own =
illness</A>.
<UL>From the AP, a fascinating account of Kay Jamison's =
struggle
with bipolar illness, and her decision to go public. Also, =
Daniel
Fisher of the National Empowerment Center. This article addresses =
the
rates of illness among mental health workers, including the study =
that
showed psychiatrists had the highest rate of =
suicide.</UL><BR>=0D=0D
<IMG SRC=3D"Gifs/u144.gif" ALIGN=3DLEFT =
HEIGHT=3D12
WIDTH=3D12 ALT=3D"Button"><A =
HREF=3D"http://reason.org/1296.html">From
the Reason Foundation</A><UL> =
Increasing
consumer choice leads to improved quality and lower costs for =
services
to the mentally ill.</UL><BR>=0D=0D <IMG
SRC=3D"Gifs/u144.gif" =
ALIGN=3DLEFT
HEIGHT=3D12 WIDTH=3D12 ALT=3D"Button"> <!-- Link Tag
--><A =
HREF=3D"bipolar/folate.html">Folate
Deficiency</A><UL>An important =
article
on the connection of folate and mood disorders. Low folate can =
cause
psychiatric symptoms, but many docs don't seem to know this (or =
care).
And some psych meds can *cause* depletion of folate. I have a =
severe
form of this anemia from the prolonged use of Tegretol, so I know =
firsthand
the impact it has on one's physical health.</UL><BR>=0D=0D=0D =
<IMG
SRC=3D"Gifs/u144.gif" ALIGN=3DLEFT HEIGHT=3D12 WIDTH=3D12 =
ALT=3D"Button"> <!-- Link Tag --><A =
HREF=3D"bipolar/haunted.html">Haunted</A>
<UL>Haunted is an excerpt from =
Dr.
Laura Slater's book "Welcome to My Country." This piece of writing =
will
take your breath away. Slater has to battle her own demons and face =
her own
past as a mental patient, during her time now as a therapist. =
</UL>=0D <BR>=0D<CENTER><IMG
SRC=3D"Gifs/flurline.gif" WIDTH=3D448 =
HEIGHT=3D23
ALT=3D"divider"></CENTER>=0D<BR>=0D<BR>=0D=0D=0D<FONT
=
SIZE=3D5><center> Links to other bipolar sites =
</center>=0D</FONT><BR>=0D<BR>=0DBelow
you will find a few links to the =
best bipolar areas on the web. These links are
very comprehensive and =
complete
and represent bipolar disorder at its best (or worse, depending =
on your
viewpoint). <BR>=0D<BR>=0D=0D <LI> <!-- Link Tag --><A =
HREF=3D"http://www.frii.com/~parrot/bip.html">Joy
Ikelman's Cybersite on =
Bipolar
Disorder</A>. Joy is one of the most special people I've ever =
known.
She is truly one of the beautiful souls, and this site reflects =
that
beauty. Good, solid information on bipolar disorder, Joy's famous =
files
(media file, famous people, the affective spectrum), and most =
importantly
- Joy's personal experience with bipolar disorder. Don't =
miss
her section on the bipolar family tree!
<BR> <BR>=0D <LI> <!-- =
Link
Tag --><A HREF=3D"http://www.moodswing.org/">The Bipolar
FAQ</A> - =
everything
you wanted to know about bipolar disorder, but were too manic =
to ask.
Plus more! This is Moodswing Org, and my buddy Barry has =
listings
for national advocacy and support groups. A fantastic site! =
<BR>
<BR>=0D=0D=0D=0D=0D <LI>
<!-- Link Tag --><A =
HREF=3D"http://www.pendulum.org">The
Pendulum Pages</A>, your =
comprehensive
information source for the bipolar disorders and other =
mood
disorders. These pages form part of the information associated with =
the
Pendulum Mailing List (my home away from home). My good friend Doug =
Barlow
maintains this site, and you'll be blown away by the amount of =
info
here. <BR> <BR>=0D
<LI> <!-- Link Tag --><A
=
HREF=3D"http://www.tcnj.edu/~ellisles/BipolarPlanet/">Unofficial
=
Pendulum
Bipolar Planet</A>, a swingin' place for all our moods. Can =
Bipolar
Disorder be fun? You bet it can, and Sister Leslie is here to =
prove
it! Great info, and a sometimes lighthearted look at bipolar. =
(Hey,
if we can't use our senses of humor, then what's life worth??!) =
<BR>
<BR>=0D <LI> <!-- Link
Tag --><A =
HREF=3D"http://www.slip.net/~sandpipr/">The
Phunny Pharm</A>, where =
manic
depression is the house specialty. If you've gotta get committed, =
this
Psyberspace Psanitarium is the place to go! Much better than the =
state
hospital, and the Haldol is complimentary.
<BR> <BR>=0D <LI> =
Almost
Human, the original bipolar psychic. No explanation =
available...you
gotta see it to appreciate it. And if you don't find it =
hilarious,
you are probably not a TRUE bipolar and you have no sense of =
humor.
Go back to your calculus. Thank you, and <!-- Link Tag --><A =
HREF=3D"http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/3369/">here's</A>
the address. =
<BR>=0D<BR></B>=0D=0D<BR>=0D<center><!--
Link Tag --><A =
HREF=3D"http://www.cmhc.com/"><!--
Graphic Tag --><IMG WIDTH=3D75 =
HEIGHT=3D84
ALT=3D"MHN Badge" =
SRC=3D"Gifs/mhnet2.gif"></A></center><BR>=0D=0D<CENTER><B>Proud
=
recipient
of the Blue Maxwell and Winds of Change =
Awards</B></CENTER><BR>=0D<CENTER><!--
Link Tag --><A =
HREF=3D"http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6140/award.htm"><!--
Graphic =
Tag
--><IMG WIDTH=3D132 HEIGHT=3D90 ALT=3D"Blue Maxwell Award" =
SRC=3D"Gifs/award1.gif"></A>
<A HREF=3D" =
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/9737
"><IMG =
SRC=3D"Gifs/JOAWARD4.GIF"
=
ALIGN=3DABSMIDDLE></A>=0D<BR>=0D=0D<BR>=0D=0D<center><B><!--
Link Tag =
--><A
HREF=3D"index.html">Home</A> | <!-- Link Tag --><A
=
HREF=3D"menu.html">Menu</A>
| <!-- Link Tag --><A =
HREF=3D"shocked.html">Shocked</A> | <!-- Link Tag --><A =
HREF=3D"mental.html">Mental</A>
| <!-- Link Tag --><A =
HREF=3D"buffet.html">Int'l</A>
| <!-- Link Tag --><A =
HREF=3D"liberals.html">Liberals</A>
| <!-- MailTo Tag --><A =
HREF=3D"MAILTO:juli@i1.net">Feedback</A></FONT></B></center>
<BR>=0D =
<BR>=0D<HR
WIDTH=3D70% ALIGN=3DCENTER><BR>=0D<BR><BLOCKQUOTE>=0D<B>Quick
=
Poll!
</B><BR>=0DThis poll is NOT a scientific survey. I'm just curious =
how
many bipolars also have migraines. <BR>=0DPlease answer ONLY if you =
are
bipolar.<BR><BR>=0D</BLOCKQUOTE>=0D=0D <!-- QPoll Segment
Begin =
-->=0D <table border=3D"1"
cellpadding=3D"10" width=3D"500"><tr>=0D =
<td
valign=3D"top" width=3D"250"
bgcolor=3D"#3427A4">=0D
=
<center><b>=0D Do you suffer from migraine
headaches?<p>=0D =
Choose one.<p></b>=0D <a =
href=3D"http://qstats.dreamcraft.net/">=0D <img border=3D"1" =
align=3D"center"
=
src=3D"http://qstats.dreamcraft.net/images/q.gif"></a>=0D =
Poll
courtesy of QStats=0D
</b></center></td>=0D <td =
width=3D"250"
bgcolor=3D"#3427A4">=0D <form method=3D"POST"=0D =
action=3D"http://qstats.dreamcraft.net/english/qpoll.asp">=0D =
<p>=0D <input type=3D"hidden"
name=3D"pollid" =
value=3D"215918698">=0D <input type=3D"hidden"
name=3D"id" =
value=3D"J215918698">=0D <input type=3D"radio"
name=3D"r" =
value=3D"v0">=0D Yes<br>=0D <input type=3D"radio"
=
name=3D"r"
value=3D"v1">=0D
No<br>=0D
<p>=0D =
<input type=3D"image"=0D border=3D"0"=0D =
=
src=3D"http://qstats.dreamcraft.net/english/qpoll.asp?id=3DJ215918698"=0D=
alt=3D"Vote!">=0D
</p></form>=0D
</td>=0D =
</tr></table>=0D <!-- QPoll Segment End
----><BR>=0D=0D<!-- QCount =
Segment
Begin -->=0D <A =
HREF=3D"http://qstats.dreamcraft.net/english/qcount.asp?ac=3DL&id=3DJ2159=
18698">=0D <IMG BORDER=3D"0"=0D =
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------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BD2027.55583760--
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:17:10 -0800
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@email.msn.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri
<love_singing@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: TO:
Friends of David Rhaesa
Jim -
David has no access to e-mail - you might want to send him a note or
card at
the hospital... ciao, sherri
-----Original
Message-----
From:
Jim Dimock <juancito@JUNO.COM>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date:
Tuesday, January 13, 1998 1:44 PM
Subject:
Re: TO: Friends of David Rhaesa
>de-lurking
for a moment to wish David best wishes. We miss you Race!
>
>Jim
>There
but for the grace of God goes I...
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:43:48 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: DawnDR <DawnDR@AOL.COM>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: TO: Friends of David Rhaesa
Content-type:
text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Thanks
for explaining, Mike. The terms are
often just loosely applied and
understanding
is difficult.
Dawn
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:20:18 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Ira Hayes
John
Prine does a wonderful version of this song.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:26:40 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg in America
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:46:31 -0500
from
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
It's an
early gossipy biographical sketch of Allen.
Printed in England under t
he
title Pater Familias, I think.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1988 07:08:46 -0600
Reply-To: jgardner@doane.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jodie R Gardner
<JGardner@DOANE.EDU>
Organization:
Doane College
Subject: Existentialism...
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1.0
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Does
anyone know anything about existentialism and it's importance in
the
Beat movement and culture? If so,
please explain and help me out
here. Thanks!
*jodie*
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:57:07 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Liam Ferney
<s341839@STUDENT.UQ.EDU.AU>
Organization:
Student
Subject: Re: Beats and Jazz question
MIME-Version:
1.0
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Sebastian
Suarez wrote:
>
>
Hello
>
I'm new here and I am asking for a little help.
> In
which way are the beats influenced by jazz?
> I
actually don't seem to get it. All that stuff about the poetry being
>
influence by jazz rythms. There just seems to be no rythm at all.
>
>
Love
>
Sebastian
Kerouac's
Mexico City Blues and most of his spontatneous prose was
influenced
by jazz. both in the way they improvised rather than pausing
and
carefully thinking over every next note. Mexico Ciy Blues was
bascially
just a collection of improvised chorus's based around free
association.
Ginsberg was also influenced by jazz. Note the long
phrasing
in Howl. This is reminiscent of the long blows taken by jazz
musicans
of the time. Also what jazz do you mean ? you may be listening
to the
wrong type of jazz given its extensive musical history. The Beats
were
basically concerned by a stlye of jazz known as bop. Charlie Parker
and
early Miles Davis. Finally a little quote to better illustrate my
point.
"I
want to be considered a jazz poet blowing in a long blues in an
afternoon
jam session on Sunday. I take 242 choruses; my ideas vary and
sometimes
roll from chorus to chorus or from halfway though a chorus to
halfway
into the next."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:02:36 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Liam Ferney <s341839@STUDENT.UQ.EDU.AU>
Organization:
Student
Subject: Re: Used bookstore finds
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1.0
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Mary
Maconnell wrote:
>
> So
after not having read any Burroughs I went searching and found
>
"Naked Lunch," "Soft Light,"(?) and "The Wild
Boys." I also found
>
Ferlinghetti's "Coney Island of the Mind" which is excellent.
>
>
I'm starting with "The Wild Boys" but now am wondering why. I'm a little
>
bit into chapter 3 and it's so weird thus far and I'm wondering if there's
>
any advice anyone can give a person not yet versed with Burroughs.
>
>
Thanks --
>
Mary
Forget
everything you know. Just read the book and become immersed in
the
fantasy's Burrough's creates. I have npt read the Wild Bunch but I
have
read other books by Burroughs and often times they don't follow a
linear
path which makes it hard for our indoctrinated minds to grasp.
Good
luck and have fun
Nothing
is true
Everything
is permitted
W.S.B.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:51:44 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: IDDHI <IDDHI@AOL.COM>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Existentialism...
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In a
message dated 13-Jan-98 4:27:43 PM Pacific Standard Time,
JGardner@doane.edu
writes:
<<
Does anyone know anything about existentialism and it's importance in
the Beat movement and culture? If so, please explain and help me out
here.
Thanks!
*jodie*
>>
Jodie,
this question was posed to you so that you YOURSELF would seek
knowledge
of existentialism and how that might have affected a certain group.
Why not
read about existentialism, read Beat literature with an eye to seeing
the
existential or nonexistential theme therein, and reach your own
conclusion?
Otherwise, you'll be getting a point of view, not true knowledge,
which
can only be found through seeking it.
It's a
serious question, and deserves serious contemplation. I urge you to do
that.
ID
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:35:25 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: David
I'm
sure everyone on Beat-l wishes David well.
His posts are certainly among t
he most
interesting on the list. I hope he
rejoins us soon.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:50:23 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Carl A Biancucci
<carl@WORLD.STD.COM>
Subject: David Foster Wallace
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1998010611315041@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> from "Bill
Gargan" at
Jan 6, 98 11:25:27 am
Mime-Version:
1.0
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Who IS
this guy?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:39:10 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: David Rhaesa sends greetings
Comments:
cc: Chris West <chriswest@dancris.com>
In-Reply-To: <34BBFF53.4646@student.uq.edu.au>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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Listers:
Just
spoke to David. He's "fine."
He
said, "Tell my friends I'm getting too much sleep...I'm OK...should be
out of
here in a week or so...there is nothing I need."
How
about mail I asked?
"OK...but
add "PLEASE FORWARD" to the address because I might be on my way
home."
Jo
says: "Get those cards and letters into the mail."
David
sounded tired. Very tired. But he was very happy I got through to
him.
Not much to talk about. Talked about his visit to 1603 E. Williams
Street
down in the Valley of the Sun. Said he had a great time. He spent an
evening
with two incredible people living in our home down there.
I'll
check in with him again. When I do I'll pass any info along.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:25:51 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: M84M79 <M84M79@AOL.COM>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: TO:
Friends of David Rhaesa
Content-type:
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In a
message dated 98-01-13 17:31:35 EST, you write:
<<
Jim - David has no access to e-mail - you might want to send him a note or
card at the hospital... ciao, sherri >>
david
is in the hospital? is he alright? i signed off the list for a month and
i have
no clue what is going on. marie, are you still out there? leon? i was
going
to post a hello to my friends just to mention that i was back, but i was
shocked
when i read this. sorry for taking up space, but could someone please
e-mail
me privately to let me know what happened with david. thanks.
~~marlene
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:30:59 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: M84M79 <M84M79@AOL.COM>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Beats and Jazz question
Content-type:
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In a
message dated 98-01-13 19:31:57 EST, you write:
<<
"I want to be considered a jazz poet blowing in a long blues in an
afternoon jam session on Sunday. I take 242
choruses; my ideas vary and
sometimes roll from chorus to chorus or from
halfway though a chorus to
halfway into the next."
>>
is this a JK quote? if not, where did you get
it?
~~marlene
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:59:16 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
test
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:22:12 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: TO:
Friends of David Rhaesa
In-Reply-To: <f8245ed9.34bc3041@aol.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>In
a message dated 98-01-13 17:31:35 EST, you write:
>
><<
Jim - David has no access to e-mail - you might want to send him a note or
>
card at the hospital... ciao, sherri
>>
>
>david
is in the hospital? is he alright? i signed off the list for a month and
>i
have no clue what is going on. marie, are you still out there? leon? i was
>going
to post a hello to my friends just to mention that i was back, but i was
>shocked
when i read this. sorry for taking up space, but could someone please
>e-mail
me privately to let me know what happened with david. thanks.
>~~marlene
David
is OK. Spoke to him this evening.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line
at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:31:28 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: David Foster Wallace
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Who
IS this guy?
Is this
the "Infinite Jest" author?
Why do
you ask?
I have
wondered when someone might bring him up.
I haven't because I know
very
little about him except I did read girl with mellow hair or something
like
that.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:33:02 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats and Jazz question
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>In
a message dated 98-01-13 19:31:57 EST, you write:
>
><<
"I want to be considered a jazz poet blowing in a long blues in an
>
afternoon jam session on Sunday. I take 242 choruses; my ideas vary and
>
sometimes roll from chorus to chorus or from halfway though a chorus to
>
halfway into the next."
> >>
> is
this a JK quote? if not, where did you get it?
>~~marlene
That is
a JK quote, from the preface to Mexico City Blues
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:34:02 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: marie countyman
<mcountyman@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: i'm still alive
Content-Type:
text/plain
hey all
you guys! still alive and well in california. won't hear much
from me
because i'm working my up the coast to
the amtrack station.
have
missed you all since i've been out computer range, but have been
having
a GLORIOUS time.
talk to
you all later in the week.
marie
>
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 23:49:03 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Abe Lincoln
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Was not
Abe Lincoln a sufferer from MD/Bipolar?
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 02:54:09 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jjdorfner <Jjdorfner@AOL.COM>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Beats and Jazz question
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the
"i want to be considered a jazz poet..." quote is in the beginning of
Mexico
City Blues. jack was explaining is
poetry.
john
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:12:03 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ira Hayes
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1998011318210937@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Mime-Version:
1.0
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What
song?
On Tue,
13 Jan 1998, Bill Gargan wrote:
>
John Prine does a wonderful version of this song.
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:28:23 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Preston Whaley <paw8670@MAILER.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats and Jazz question
Mime-Version:
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You
also might check out JK's explanation of jazz-prose connection in his
"Essentials
of Spontaneous Prose." You can find it in the Portable Jack
Kerouac
by Charters, Viking Press or "Casebook on the Beat" by Parkinson.
Ginsberg
had the manifesto on his wall as he wrote Howl.
Hope
this helps,
Preston
>the
"i want to be considered a jazz poet..." quote is in the beginning of
>Mexico
City Blues. jack was explaining is
poetry.
>
>john
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:16:45 -0500
Reply-To: cmdumond@ehc.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Chris Dumond <cmdumond@EHC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Buddhism v. Catholicism
MIME-Version:
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Hey
all,
It's been
a while since I've bothered to post.
Seems like the list has
been
rather uninspired lately. I liked this
question though. I'd say
that
the difference lies in one word, "until". In christianity, Christ
supposedly
takes away the suffering. Buddhism, on
the other hand, tells
us that
life is suffering, why and what we can do about it. However, as
the
first noble truth, it remains a constant for humanity. As i see it,
this is
one of the main conflicts Jack experienced in his religious
struggles.
>How
does the first Noble Truth that all life is suffering differ from
>
Romans 8:22 "For we know that the whole creation groaneth and
>travaileth in
pain together until now."?
much
love,
Chris
P.S. You know something's wrong when there is more
debate ABOUT
debating
the Estate funnybusiness than there is actual list content! My
motion
is that Bill puts a clause in signon notice that demands everyone
grow-up
and stop parading to see who has the bigger balls.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:17:15 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: The contest
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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>much
love,
>Chris
>P.S. You know something's wrong when there is
more debate ABOUT
>debating
the Estate funnybusiness than there is actual list content! My
>motion
is that Bill puts a clause in signon notice that demands everyone
>grow-up
and stop parading to see who has the bigger balls.
I take
it this this post is your entry?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:39:40 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nicolai Pharao <nicpha@CPHLING.DK>
Subject: Wild Boys
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Wild
Boys is a strange book but far from as strange as any of the cut-up
trilogy,
at least when it comes to composition. Having only read it once I
thought
it to be an exquisitely beautiful piece of prose and very
entertaining.
The criticism of society which Burroughs (rightly) was
renowned
for is perhaps not as explicit in this book as it is in others,
most
prominently "Naked Lunch" and the cut-up trilogy.Be sure to pick up a
copy of
"Exterminator!".
bye,
Nicolai
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:49:43 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Existentialism...
Mime-Version:
1.0
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At 07:08
AM 1/5/88 -0600, you wrote:
>Does
anyone know anything about existentialism and it's importance in
>the
Beat movement and culture? If so,
please explain and help me out
>here. Thanks!
>
>*jodie*
>
>
I don't
remember where I read it (it was a blurb), William Burroughs called
Kerouac
America's greatest existentialist writer.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 13:35:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats and Jazz question
In-Reply-To:
<v01540b00b0e25f002f92@[146.201.2.119]>
Mime-Version:
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You can
also find Essentials of Spontaneous Prose in Good Blonde..
On Wed,
14 Jan 1998, Preston Whaley wrote:
>
You also might check out JK's explanation of jazz-prose connection in his
>
"Essentials of Spontaneous Prose." You can find it in the Portable
Jack
>
Kerouac by Charters, Viking Press or "Casebook on the Beat" by
Parkinson.
>
Ginsberg had the manifesto on his wall as he wrote Howl.
>
>
Hope this helps,
>
>
Preston
>
>
>the "i want to be considered a jazz poet..." quote is in the
beginning of
>
>Mexico City Blues. jack was
explaining is poetry.
>
>
>
>john
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:04:11 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Preston Whaley
<paw8670@MAILER.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Existentialism...
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The
cardinal doctrine of existentialism according to Sartre is "existence
precedes
essence;" we are born into the
world a zero and create our own
being
from there. It presupposes absolute
freedom. Nothing is ordained.
Infinite
creative possibilities. Camus and
Sartre are good places to go
for
prose realization of the philosophy.
It's less explicit in Kerouac
because
he's so subjective but the Nietzchean uberman Dean Moriarty pushes
toward
the idea. The obstacle to all of this
is culture of course and
according
to Burroughs language itself, because of it, consciousness is
prerecorded. Therefore existentialism is a ruse performed
by deterministic
language
which he tried to undermine via cutups, etc.
That's
an oversimplified nutshell of the issues.
Preston
>At
07:08 AM 1/5/88 -0600, you wrote:
>>Does
anyone know anything about existentialism and it's importance in
>>the
Beat movement and culture? If so,
please explain and help me out
>>here. Thanks!
>>
>>*jodie*
>>
>>
>
>I
don't remember where I read it (it was a blurb), William Burroughs called
>Kerouac
America's greatest existentialist writer.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:17:18 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization:
art language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: The contest
MIME-Version:
1.0
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Timothy
K. Gallaher wrote:
>
>
>much love,
>
>Chris
>
>
>P.S. You know something's wrong
when there is more debate ABOUT
>
>debating the Estate funnybusiness than there is actual list content! My
>
>motion is that Bill puts a clause in signon notice that demands everyone
>
>grow-up and stop parading to see who has the bigger balls.
>
> I
take it this this post is your entry?
and tkc
adds the addendum:
actually,
i've been told seeing who had the bigger balls was a game some
of the
beats liked.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:53:18 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "Donald G. Jr. Lee"
<donlee@COMP.UARK.EDU>
Subject: Re: Existentialism...
Comments:
To: Preston Whaley <paw8670@MAILER.FSU.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <v01540b00b0e2aa215070@[146.201.2.65]>
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That
was a brilliantly succinct summary on Existentialism and Burroughs'
response
to it...
Don Lee
Fayetteville,
Ark.
"I
cannot live without books."
--Thomas Jefferson
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:58:48 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: randy royal
<randyr@SOUTHEAST.NET>
Subject: Re: David Foster Wallace
In-Reply-To:
<v01510100b0e1811d3851@[128.125.223.120]>
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At
08:31 PM 1/13/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Is
this the "Infinite Jest" author?
>
>Why
do you ask?
>
>I
have wondered when someone might bring him up.
I haven't because I know
>very
little about him except I did read girl with mellow hair or something
>like
that.
>
>
that's
him allright. never had time to read that big book (1,000 pages or
so..
not exactly) Infinite Jest, but i will soon. he was featured in a few
articles
at
<http://www.amazon.com>
about him. maybe they took them down. but they do
have
reviews of most of his books at that site.
randy
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:49:33 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: GYENIS <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Proust Questions
Content-type:
text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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I went
on a x country trip and planned to ask strangers the following
questions,
but instead just asked friends and relatives, and recorded it on
Video.
It really is entertaining, especially for me since I know everybody,
but it
also gave me a little insight into that person as to how they were
feeling
that particular day. They has to answer the questions live, they
didn't get
to review the questions beforehand.
Original
five questions:
1) What is your favorite color?
2) What
is your favorite number?
3) What
is the best or favorite place you have ever been to?
4) What
person, living or dead, would you like to meet, and why?
5) Tell
me a joke. (This was the hardest one to
get with many people saying
they
don't know any jokes, I just kept the film rolling).
I added
two questions in later 'interviews'.
6) If
you were an animal, what animal would you be? (this is different than
what
animal do you want to be)
7)
Describe a water fall.
I got some great answers, some great jokes as
well (as well as why did the
chicken
cross the road at least 3 times). I have over 25-30 people
interviewed.
Main reason
why I started is because I didn't even know my parent's favorite
color
and I wanted to document it (because I wouldn't remember otherwise).
For me
it was great, having a record of my friends and family in a very candid
interview.
People watching the video enjoyed it as well and get caught up with
trying
to guess people's answers.
so it
goes, Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:17:24 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: randy royal
<randyr@SOUTHEAST.NET>
Subject: Re: Abe Lincoln
In-Reply-To: <34BC43BF.996CC74F@scsn.net>
Mime-Version:
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Content-Type:
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hello.
got the
below from the groiler encyclopedia. says also that Kraepelin
documened
most of that stuff in 1883 in a textbook... abe was assinated in
1865.
Emil
Kraepelin, b. Feb. 15, 1856, d. Oct. 7, 1926, was a German
psychiatrist
who developed an influential classification of psychoses into
two
types: dementia praecox, now called schizophrenia, and manic-depressive
psychosis.
it
would be possible Bentz, but i doubt it was documented. we all have
skeletons
in the closet though.
randy
At
11:49 PM 1/13/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Was
not Abe Lincoln a sufferer from MD/Bipolar?
>
>--
>
>Peace,
>
>Bentz
>bocelts@scsn.net
>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:24:10 -0800
Reply-To: Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: Existentialism...
MIME-Version:
1.0
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Ever
thought of writing "In a Nutshell" books? Wonderful job!
leon
-----Original
Message-----
From:
Preston Whaley <paw8670@MAILER.FSU.EDU>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date:
Wednesday, January 14, 1998 11:03 AM
Subject:
Re: Existentialism...
>The
cardinal doctrine of existentialism according to Sartre is "existence
>precedes
essence;" we are born into the
world a zero and create our own
>being
from there. It presupposes absolute
freedom. Nothing is ordained.
>Infinite
creative possibilities. Camus and
Sartre are good places to go
>for
prose realization of the philosophy.
It's less explicit in Kerouac
>because
he's so subjective but the Nietzchean uberman Dean Moriarty pushes
>toward
the idea. The obstacle to all of this
is culture of course and
>according
to Burroughs language itself, because of it, consciousness is
>prerecorded. Therefore existentialism is a ruse performed
by deterministic
>language
which he tried to undermine via cutups, etc.
>
>That's
an oversimplified nutshell of the issues.
>
>Preston
>
>>At
07:08 AM 1/5/88 -0600, you wrote:
>>>Does
anyone know anything about existentialism and it's importance in
>>>the
Beat movement and culture? If so,
please explain and help me out
>>>here. Thanks!
>>>
>>>*jodie*
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I
don't remember where I read it (it was a blurb), William Burroughs
called
>>Kerouac
America's greatest existentialist writer.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:50:56 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zucchini4 <Zucchini4@AOL.COM>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: David Foster Wallace
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Well, I
don't know very much about David Foster Wallace, but as coincidence
would
have it, a friend of mine is right now struggling through "Infinite
Jest".
She tells me that the book is very good, a lot of very strange
characters.
I've read a few parts of it myself, which were hysterical. I
wouldn't
describe the prose itself as particularly disjointed, but I think
that
the narrative is, not too a terribly confusing degree, but at least
enough
to keep you on your toes.
He's
been compared to Pynchon quite a lot by critics. And speaking of- I've
got
Gravity's Rainbow sitting on my shelf waiting for me (soon as I finish The
Name of
the Rose by Umberto Eco.... talk about an amazing- and confusing-
author).
I've read the beginning before, and got very hung up on the setting.
Can
anyone tell me whether this was some kind of future war, who it was
between,
etc? of course- if telling me this would spoil the story too much,
I'll
just wait and tough it out on my own. Thank you.
Oh and
one last Foster Wallace thing- I have a little essay type thing by him
comparing
the unfinished novel to a "damaged infant". It's pretty funny... a
little
weird... if you guys are at all interested I'll post it or send it
through
private email...
--Stephanie
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:01:44 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Foster Wallace
His
book "The Broom of the System" is a good read too, though a little
quirky.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:52:15 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: GYENIS <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: DHARMA beat Stuff page
Content-type:
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Hello
In each
issue of DHARMA beat we list poetry chapbooks, zines, books that are
Kerouac
related, Kerouac influenced, or the ones we like. If you would like to
have
something considered to be listed (and go out and be seen by a bunch of
Kerouac
enthusiasts) please e mail me and I will provide an address to mail it
to
(different than DHARMA beat's PO Box)
thanks,
and sorry for the intrusion
Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:52:14 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: GYENIS <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: DHARMA beat- A Jack Kerouac Newszine
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DHARMA
beat is a zine (newsletter) that is published twice a year about
Kerouac's
life and writing. Issue 10 will be
published in March.
web
page:
<A
HREF="http://members.aol.com/kerouaczin/dharmabeat.html">
http://members.aol.com/kerouaczin/dharmabeat.html</A>
We
publish information of interest about Kerouac events and happenings around
the
world. A recent issue had an article about Kerouac living in Ozone Park,
New
York; an article about Jack's sister Nin; and Allen Ginsberg provided two
dreams
that he had where he's talking with Kerouac. Ginsberg wrote :
"Poetry
America was born before us & will live after us -- and would've been
visible
for every eye to see but for the scientists of poetry & sociologists
of
Academy measuring the vast mind with monkey calipers & teaspoons of ink
--"
DHARMA
beat is published twice a year, spring and fall. Subscriptions are
$7.00
per year (two issues, make checks payable to DHARMA beat), $10 to Canada
and
overseas (payable in US dollars). Sample copies are available for $3.00.
Mail to
DHARMA beat, PO BOX 1753, Lowell MA, 01853-1753. For more information
e mail
to KEROUACZIN@AOL.COM
We are
always looking for articles and information about any Kerouac related
item
you may have (for example if you have a Kerouac Poetry reading
celebrating
his birth or passing) or anything related. Our main purpose is to
let
people know about what's going on.
Next
issue due is March, send stuff for calenders and reviews now.
thanks
and enjoy, Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:15:53 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: marie countyman
<mcountyman@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Proust Questions
Content-Type:
text/plain
hey
there. the question i have learned in to ask: how psychotic am i and
will a
x country trip save my brain or boil it.
just my
2 cents
mc
>From
owner-beat-l@cunyvm.cuny.edu Wed Jan 14 16:08:53 1998
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>Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:49:33 EST
>Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Sender:
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>From:
GYENIS <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
>Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
>Subject: Proust Questions
>To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>I
went on a x country trip and planned to ask strangers the following
>questions,
but instead just asked friends and relatives, and recorded
it on
>Video.
It really is entertaining, especially for me since I know
everybody,
>but
it also gave me a little insight into that person as to how they
were
>feeling
that particular day. They has to answer the questions live,
they
>didn't
get to review the questions beforehand.
>
>Original
five questions:
>1) What is your favorite color?
>
>2)
What is your favorite number?
>
>3)
What is the best or favorite place you have ever been to?
>
>4)
What person, living or dead, would you like to meet, and why?
>
>5)
Tell me a joke. (This was the hardest
one to get with many people
saying
>they
don't know any jokes, I just kept the film rolling).
>
>I
added two questions in later 'interviews'.
>
>6) If
you were an animal, what animal would you be? (this is
different
than
>what
animal do you want to be)
>
>7)
Describe a water fall.
>
>I got some great answers, some great jokes as
well (as well as why did
the
>chicken
cross the road at least 3 times). I have over 25-30 people
>interviewed.
>
>Main
reason why I started is because I didn't even know my parent's
favorite
>color
and I wanted to document it (because I wouldn't remember
otherwise).
>
>For
me it was great, having a record of my friends and family in a very
candid
>interview.
People watching the video enjoyed it as well and get caught
up with
>trying
to guess people's answers.
>
>so
it goes, Attila
>
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:04:31 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Liam Ferney
<s341839@STUDENT.UQ.EDU.AU>
Organization:
Student
Subject: Re: Beats and Jazz question
MIME-Version:
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M84M79
wrote:
>
> In
a message dated 98-01-13 19:31:57 EST, you write:
>
>
<< "I want to be considered a jazz poet blowing in a long blues in
an
> afternoon jam session on Sunday. I take 242
choruses; my ideas vary and
> sometimes roll from chorus to chorus or from
halfway though a chorus to
> halfway into the next."
> >>
> is this a JK quote? if not, where did you
get it?
>
~~marlene
Yes it
is a JK qoute. It's from the start of Mexico City Blues
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:08:47 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: Kerouac
MIME-Version:
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The
current issue of the _New York Times Book Review_ (18 January 1998)
has an
advertisement for Bauman Rare Books offering a copy of a 1st
edition
of _On the Road_ for $3200, $200 more than a 1st ed. of a limited
edition
(800 copies) of _Anna Livia Plurabelle_ signed by James Joyce!
(p. 5)
Have
the Beats arrived, or what?
Cordially,
Mike
Skau
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:49:33 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "V.J. Eaton"
<vj@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: To IRCers and TKQ Maher re:Kerochat
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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The
TalkCity Kerochat was a good experiment, but there are better ways.
IRC has
its own gremlins without being served through HTML/HTTP protocols
while a
browser loads Java advertisements and writes cookies.
Just
use IRC. IRC programs are free, and the
learning curve is . . . read.
TKQ, if
you want to sponser Beat chat: Pick an IRC server (Delphi's in the
Lowel
area, --tends to be busy, tho), name
the #group for us, and give a
general
time. People can generally tend to
show up about generally then.
First
one to /join creates the channel under the #expected name, and gets op
privileges.
Kerochat
under current management? --doomed to slowdom and non attendance.
_____________________
More
harm is done under guise of goodness than ever realized
by foul
deed or evil doer. Nevertheless, I wish
I was good.
--Herbert
Huncke
V.J.
Eaton
Tempe,
AZ
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:29:13 -0800
Reply-To: Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Forked Tongue
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Hello
Dear Sherri,
Hopefully
you had a great day, and a better one coming up tomorrow! They can
allways
be better, allways.
That is
not a forked tongue talking to you, the Forked Tongue is the cafe
that
will become the Mumbo Room on Sunday. It is located on the corner of
Kearney
and Broadway. I expect to come to the City in the afternoon, will be
happy
to call you if you have the time and would like to visit a bit before
the
evening reading. I am waiting to tell James until marie is gone.
Otherwise
I have almost completely recovered from my awful ordeal. Some dark
clouds
still linger a bit when blown in by the winds, but they do dissipate.
What
winds? Like a call from Ann Marie who surprised me with a long list of
complaints
about the visit that marie called "GLORIOUS". Like the message
that
marie sent me today. You wanna see it?
BTW I
started to wade through some of her posts and i have already copy
pasted
a whole bunch to refute all the shamelessly false badmouthing that
ingrate
has spread around about me. See, I can blow the clouds right into my
head
all by myself, but they don't hold water, no rain on my head. Smiles
shine
through, the interior weather is clearing nicely.
What
decided me to prepare a reply is first of all my resolve to tie
together
loose ends and reflect them back to marie, the best chance of doing
something
good with all the agonizing efforts that I have expended on her
behalf.
She sent me an email today that she wants to pass as an olive
branch,
but is only adding more insults. She suggests that when i am ready
we
should become friends again, maybe resume writing. But instead of
acknowledging
anything wrong done on her part, she is ready to excuse me
because
she now claims to realize that she gave me mixed messages , sexually
speaking
I presume.
That
only suggests that I may have actually acted out something aggressively
toward
her, which is totally false. I will not permit her to get away with
making
such accusations. I also intend to call
her on the fact that she
wrote
to her therapist that I "jumped her bones three nights in a row". I
suppose
he might believe her. I suspect she knows better than to make that
kind of
accusation to you. To me the fact that she wrote him that, was for
me the
one most enlightening fact about her predicament.
To
begin with I was very interested in the controversial questions that have
lately
arisen about reports of abuse to therapists. I wanted to have an in
depth
look, and marie provided me an answer with a definite clarity that was
way
beyond any of my expectations.
Marie
may be telling the truth about her childhood abuse, but there is no
way
that she suspects within herself that I "jumped her bones three nights
in a
row"!!! It also helps me to understand better why her hterapist has
such
little success with her over all these years. While I will present to
her my
respose very soon, there is quite a bit of serious consideration for
me how
to use all this real life action in the most useful way to her. Once
a
therapist always a therapist I guess.
By now
you must wonder how did I learn that? I assume that you are too
intelligent
to believe that maybe I did look over marie's shoulder after all
when
she was typing away. Could you believe for a moment that she would type
such
statements with me looking over her shoulder?
The
truth is sort of amazing in its own way. Marie must have wanted me to
see
that one, otherwise do you think that she would have left the message
miniaturized
on the task bar? Well, I have it on my computer. You wanna see
it? Do
you believe I have an obligation to keep it confidential? So far I
haven't
told anyone about it. I didn't believe my eyes when I scratched my
head
and restored the icon to the screen. I do know that it belongs in the
punch
line of my response when the time comes to try to help her see how she
abuses
herself by playing out fictitious
victim roles to gain sick power
that
gets her sympathy and support for infantile games.
But you
didn't ask for all that crap. I suspect that you too, like myself,
like to
see through these things that are hindering us from dealing more
usefully
with these tragedies in life. That's my excuse for wriiting it all
out.
You too are with me on this stage getting to look at the players and
their
games.
So you
thought I would just go on and on? Nyah. Enough.
I hope
your evening is a very pleasant one.
Love
and hugs
leon
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:02:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Archive Post
In-Reply-To: <34BD4EC8.1134@ehc.edu>
Mime-Version:
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Chris
Dumond wrote:
>Jo,
>
Frankly, I'm tired of it. It seems like
everyone is trying to find new
>ways
of bringing up
>OLD
business that will only be settled by a court.
Are you
tired of the subject, or does the subject make you uncomfortable?
If it
will help you be a little less "tired" I will add "Keroauc
Archive
Post"
to the SUBJECT line--starting with this post--so you can delete
without
having to read the post.
You
refer to my post "Nicosia Hate? I think not," as
"childish."
Interestingly,
you were the only one of 72 people who responded who either
wanted
more information, or were unaware of the suit over the (alledged)
forging
of Jack Keroauc's mother's name to her will--which left everything
to S.
Sampas. Many were shocked to learn that John Sampas was going to
great
expense to keep the suit from ever being heard in court. Are you
aware
that it's costing John Sampas a hell of a lot more to try to keep the
case
from going to court, than it would to walk into court and prove
Memere's
signature wasn't forged--which he claims he can do.
I was
equally surprised by the number of Keroauc readers who had never read
his
last letter.
This
indicates to me thata few people on the Beat List might be tired of
the
posting of "childish" Keroauc Archive information, but many people new
to the
subject appreciate the information.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 01:51:45 EST
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: IDDHI <IDDHI@AOL.COM>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Forked Tongue
Comments:
To: letabor@cruzio.com
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text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding:
7bit
Man, I
am stunned. Let all who witness this gigantic faux pas be sobered into
realizing
how important it is to CHECK THE REPLY TO or the Send To box before
you
send it.
Gonna
be a lotta excitement on Beat-L now... Suddenly I feel naked.
Pay no
attention to that man behind the curtain.... er... uh....
Please
accept my condolences, all named parties.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:51:45 +0000
Reply-To: jhasbro@tezcat.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Hasbrouck
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Existentialism...
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Timothy
K. Gallaher wrote:
>I
don't remember where I read it (it was a blurb), William Burroughs
>called
Kerouac America's greatest existentialist writer.
I'm
sorry, but until I see a specific source for this, I remain unable
to
believe that Burroughs really said this.
-John
Hasbrouck
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:19:18 -0600
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Jeff Taylor
<taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Existentialism...
In-Reply-To: <34BDCE1F.3D38@tezcat.com>
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On Thu,
15 Jan 1998, John Hasbrouck wrote:
>
>I don't remember where I read it (it was a blurb), William Burroughs
>
>called Kerouac America's greatest existentialist writer.
>
>
I'm sorry, but until I see a specific source for this, I remain unable
> to
believe that Burroughs really said this.
I have
a hard time believing this too. Compare the following passages
from
WSB's preface to Mohamed Choukri's book _Jean Genet in Tangier_:
"[Genet
said,] 'I'm neither Existentialist nor Absurdist. I don't
believe
in such classifications. I'm only a writer, either a good one
or a
bad one.' I have been equally impatient with such
classifications.
Am I a Beat writer? a black humorist? and so on.
There
is good writing and bad writing. Giving names in meaningless.
[...]
This
shared conviction made it possible for Jean Genet and me to
communicate
in Chicago despite my atrocious French and his
non-existent
English. Had he considered himself an Existentialist or
an
Absurdist, communication would have been impossible."
*******
Jeff
Taylor
taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
*******
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:13:13 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Neil M. Hennessy"
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Used bookstore finds
In-Reply-To: <01ISALLNAQBM8Y8DWC@mail.ewu.edu>
MIME-Version:
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On Mon,
12 Jan 1998, Mary Maconnell wrote:
>
I'm starting with "The Wild Boys" but now am wondering why. I'm a little
>
bit into chapter 3 and it's so weird thus far and I'm wondering if there's
>
any advice anyone can give a person not yet versed with Burroughs.
The
Wild Boys is the book I always recommend to people who haven't read
Burroughs
before. It's got a bit of everything: routines, cut--ups,
anarchistic
utopias, and wickedly funny black humour. It's a whirlwind
ride,
but it's one I return to often. The Green Nun may be the funniest
Burroughs
passage I've ever read.
I'd be
surprised if whoever said: "One word: Heroin" has actually read The
Wild
Boys, since junk does not figure prominently, if at all, in the book.
It's
not particularly useful to think of the divisions in the book as
chapters
in any strict sense of the word, since chapters usually serve as
major
dividers in a unified narrative. Obviously, there is no overriding
narrative,
although I've heard people argue that the recurring "Penny
Arcade
Peep-Show" passages provide a cinematic emphasis that is picked up
in the
narrative passages, which are given as if on screen (note the
proliferation
of "camera zooms in", "on screen", "cut back to"
to
introduce
narratives).
Cheers,
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:18:00 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Existentialism...
In-Reply-To: <v01540b00b0e2aa215070@[146.201.2.65]>
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Thanks
for the insight...I have a better understanding of it now...
On Wed,
14 Jan 1998, Preston Whaley wrote:
>
The cardinal doctrine of existentialism according to Sartre is "existence
>
precedes essence;" we are born
into the world a zero and create our own
>
being from there. It presupposes
absolute freedom. Nothing is ordained.
>
Infinite creative possibilities. Camus
and Sartre are good places to go
>
for prose realization of the philosophy.
It's less explicit in Kerouac
>
because he's so subjective but the Nietzchean uberman Dean Moriarty pushes
>
toward the idea. The obstacle to all of
this is culture of course and
>
according to Burroughs language itself, because of it, consciousness is
>
prerecorded. Therefore existentialism
is a ruse performed by deterministic
>
language which he tried to undermine via cutups, etc.
>
>
That's an oversimplified nutshell of the issues.
>
>
Preston
>
>
>At 07:08 AM 1/5/88 -0600, you wrote:
>
>>Does anyone know anything about existentialism and it's importance in
>
>>the Beat movement and culture?
If so, please explain and help me out
>
>>here. Thanks!
>
>>
>
>>*jodie*
>
>>
>
>>
>
>
>
>I don't remember where I read it (it was a blurb), William Burroughs called
>
>Kerouac America's greatest existentialist writer.
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:29:13 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: To IRCers and TKQ Maher re:Kerochat
In-Reply-To:
<199801150449.VAA07103@smtp03.primenet.com>
Mime-Version:
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Yeah,I
agree...IRC would be better because the computer I use doesnt
support
Java for security reasons..its a school computer. What about using
Yahoo
Chat?
On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, V.J. Eaton wrote:
>
The TalkCity Kerochat was a good experiment, but there are better ways.
>
>
IRC has its own gremlins without being served through HTML/HTTP protocols
>
while a browser loads Java advertisements and writes cookies.
>
>
Just use IRC. IRC programs are free,
and the learning curve is . . . read.
>
>
TKQ, if you want to sponser Beat chat: Pick an IRC server (Delphi's in the
>
Lowel area, --tends to be busy, tho),
name the #group for us, and give a
>
general time. People can generally
tend to show up about generally then.
>
First one to /join creates the channel under the #expected name, and gets op
>
privileges.
>
>
Kerochat under current management? --doomed to slowdom and non attendance.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
_____________________
>
More harm is done under guise of goodness than ever realized
> by
foul deed or evil doer. Nevertheless, I
wish I was good.
>
--Herbert Huncke
>
>
V.J. Eaton
>
Tempe, AZ
>
The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:45:41 -0500
Reply-To: "henkel@wmich.edu"
<henkel@wmich.edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Scott Henkel <henkel@WMICH.EDU>
Organization:
OVPR
Subject: Ginsberg audio
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FYI
Beat-Lers, I just came across a Ginsberg audio interview on RealAudio
at
http://www.liveconcerts.com/listening/kcrw/
There's a box of clips to
sort
through, alpha by interviewee. Some other interesting people, but not
very
beat related. I have not listened to it yet, has anyone?
Cheers,
Scott
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:20:25 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: MATT HANNAN
<MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>
Subject: Character Names
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I don't have a copy of Naked Lunch at
work, but I have all of you!
Was there a character in NL called Husker
Du? (Yes, just like the
metal band)
love and lilies,
matt
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:18:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "Neil M. Hennessy"
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Character Names
In-Reply-To: <00000EA0.3427@usoc.org>
MIME-Version:
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On Thu,
15 Jan 1998, MATT HANNAN wrote:
> I don't have a copy of Naked Lunch at
work, but I have all of you!
>
> Was there a character in NL called
Husker Du? (Yes, just like the
> metal band)
I can't
remember off the top of my head, but I know there was a character
called
Steely Dan, who was, of course, a dildo. The term "heavy metal" for
that
brand of music was (unfortunately) borrowed from Burroughs' character
the
Heavy Metal Kid. Other bands with Burroughsian names also off the top
of my
head: The Insect Trust, The Soft Machine. Seemed to be a 70's thing.
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:20:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: "Neil M. Hennessy"
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Wittgenstein?
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.BSI.3.95.980110112620.4602W-100000@global.california.com>
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On
Wittgenstein:
On Sat,
10 Jan 1998, Michael R. Brown wrote:
> On
Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Jeff Taylor wrote:
>
>
> In all my reading of Burroughs, I've never run across anything that
>
> made me think, "Gee, that sounds just like Wittgenstein." So
apart
>
> from the explicit reference in the intro to Naked Lunch, I don't think
>
> Burroughs ever had much to say about W.
>
>
Well, there is that reference to Wittgenstein's pre-recorded-universe
>
idea in the WSB documentary.
There
is an explicit reference that links (not attributes) Wittgenstein to
Burroughs'
idea of the pre-recorded universe in The Ticket that Exploded:
"Wittgenstein
said: 'No proposition can contain itself as an argument' =
The
only thing _not_ prerecorded in a prerecorded universe is the
prerecording
itself which is to say _any_ recording that contains a random
factor"
(TTE 166).
To
disagree with Jeff above, the influence of Wittgenstein on Burroughs'
notion
of the prerecorded universe makes Wittgenstein instrumental in
Burroughs'
philosophy and fiction. AJ The Cut-up Kid's only mission is to
fuck
with the prerecordings in TTE and Nova Express (burn nitrous holes in
the
Reality Film), and the first two books of the Red Night trilogy are
predicated
on the notion that the prerecordings can be cut-up, subverted,
and
destroyed.
On
Language Games:
Michael
went on to write:
>
Wittgenstein may have been more of an influence, however, in the idea
> of
language-games. Perhaps Burroughs was a language-gamester akin to
>
the "trickster guru" Alan Watts wrote about.
I don't
agree with this. When cutting word lines and control lines,
Burroughs
was not playing games. Although his use of parodic and satiric
modes
may cast him in the role of trickster for a time, his fight for a
non-linguistic
freedom was anything but a game.
Tim
Murphy's new book posits that "[Burroughs' work] emerges from the
liminal
space of literature with a 'plan of living' rather than an
endlessly
deferred 'participation in language games' or an empty 'love for
the
world through language' a la John Barth." He makes a pretty convincing
argument
too, and I'd refer you to him for the rest of it.
Burroughs
was always trying to _do_ something, whether it was cutting
control
lines, creating retroactive utopias, or getting into space. He was
never
just a language-gamester.
Cheers,
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:24:04 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "Neil M. Hennessy"
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Kerouac and Permutation Poems
MIME-Version:
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Since
permutation poems were au courant on the list but a mere few weeks
ago,
and the Kerouac folks were largely waiting in the wings since Rainbow
Jack's
practices were so far removed from such indulgence, I'd like to try
to
bridge the gap, unite the forces under the banner of British poet bob
cobbing's
combinatory sound poems written, published and performed in
1970.
-------------------------------------------------
(for
jack kerouac, one)
fragment:
sasa
kassee jo ook arsaka see
joass
sackoo jusoo jaa
ajeck
sojooka kee reko sooja jaake
aaeouauueeooeauo
okkuakeko
jukokkua aeja reekokussa
saarruu
oukekoju
raka
jee sseee aajakakee jjeaujok
ouaeooeeuuauoeaa
sakasee
jo ook arsaka see
joassak
koojusoo jaa
ajeck
sojooka kee
rekosoo ja jaake
aaeouauueeooeauo
okkua
keko
juko
kua
aoja
ree
-------------------------------------------------
(for
jack kerouac, three)
juka
juka kuru
juka kuru
roku
kuru roku
joku roku
joku kuro
joku kuro
roko
kuro roko
joko roko
joko kure
joko kure
roka
kure roka
joka roka
joka kura
joka kura
raku
kura raku
jaku raku
jaku kera
jaku kera
rako
kera rako
jako rako
jako keru
jako keru
raka
keru raka
raka
-------------------------------------------------------
(for
jack kerouac, two [as 13, One]; pronounce a as ah,
e as ay, o as oh, u as oo, c as ch, j as y)
ca je
ko ru ca ce jo ra ka ca co ke ku ja ce
ka ce
jo ku ra ja co ke ka je ju re ka cu jo
ra ke
co ju ka ku ka re ko cu ka ru ca ra ko
ka re
ko cu ja ru ca ra ko ju ka ca je ra ko
ja ke
ro ku ca ja ke ro ku ca ja ke ro ku ca
re ka
ka ju co ca ru cu ko re ca ka ko ra ca
ko ca
ru ko ke ra ca ka ra ka je ce ja ku ru
cu ka
ca je ra ko ja ce jo ku ra ju co ke ka
ja ce
jo ku ra ju co ke ka je ko er ka cu jo
ja ke
ro ku ca ja ke ro ku ca ja ke ro ku ca
ce ja
ra je ca co ju ku jo ce re ko ka ke co
jo co
ju ka ka ke re ko cu ja ka ca ra ko ju
ku ko
re ka cu ka ra ca ru ko cu je ca ka ra
ra ca
ru ko ke je ca ka ra ka jo ce ja ku ru
ja ke
ro ku ca ja ke ro ku ca ja ke ro ku ca
ca ra
cu ka re ca je ko ru ca ce jo ra ka ca
ru ca
je ra ko ka ce jo ku ra ja co ke ka je
ko jo
ce ja ku ra ke co ju ka ku ka re ko cu
ke co
ju ka ka ka re ko cu ja ru ca ra ko ju
ja ke
ro ku ca ja ke ro ku ca ja ke ro ku ca
co ke
ku ja ce re ka ka ju co ca ru cu ko re
ju re
ka cu jo ko ca ru ko ke ra ca ka ra ka
ka ru
ca ra ko cu ka ca je ra ko ja ce jo ku
ka ca
je ra ko ja ce jo ku ra ju co ke ka je
ja ke
ro ku ca ja ke ro ku ca ja ke ro ku ca
----------------------------------------------------------
All
three poems were published in:
cobbing,
bob. _bill jubobe_. Toronto: The Coach House Press, 1976.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:29:06 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Ken Ostrander <kenster@MIT.EDU>
Subject: HUSKER DU
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> I don't have a copy of Naked Lunch at
work, but I have all of you!
>
> Was there a character in NL called Husker
Du? (Yes, just like the
> metal band)
i just
read it recently and i definitely would've remembered any mention of
minneapolis'
"metal" vangards. you realize
that the band named themselves
after
the swedish board game where you flip over two cards or gamepieces to
try and
make a match. if you don't get a match
you flip them back over and
have to
keep track of each image to match later.
the name means "do you
remember?".
KEN
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:31:14 -0500
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From: "Neil M. Hennessy"
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: HUSKER DU
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On Thu,
15 Jan 1998, Ken Ostrander wrote:
>
you realize that the band named themselves
>
after the swedish board game where you flip over two cards or gamepieces to
>
try and make a match. if you don't get
a match you flip them back over and
>
have to keep track of each image to match later. the name means "do you
>
remember?".
The
English game was just called "Memory". I played it with my brothers
when I
was a young kid, whenever Mom wouldn't let us play street hockey
because
we were slashing each other too much with our sticks... (off into
Canadian
hockey reverie....)
Neil
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:52:51 EST
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From: CIRCULATION
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac
Bauman
rare Books has their office in the Waldorf Astoria which explains their
hefty
prices. Take about $1500.00 off any book they offer for a more normal
price.
Dave B.
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:58:04 +0000
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From: Tom Christopher
<tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization:
art language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: Character Names
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husker
du was a 'concentration' type board game in the early 60s. its a
scandanavian
language that means 'do you remember'
i
thought the band was more punk than metal
tkc
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:22:43 -0800
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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Character Names
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At
11:58 AM 1/15/98 +0000, you wrote:
>husker
du was a 'concentration' type board game in the early 60s. its a
>scandanavian
language that means 'do you remember'
>
>i
thought the band was more punk than metal
>
>tkc
>
Thanks
for saying that. I was gonna say
metal?????
I saw
them only once way back when when they came out from Minnesota to
California
at the Mabuhay and this was punk rock time.
They played with us,
them
and Black Flag (as I recall)
This
would be 1981 or 1982. Years later the
lines between punk and "metal"
began
to blur.
Meat
Puppets would be a simlar type of thing
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:05:23 -0500
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From: TKQ <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: To IRCers and TKQ Maher re:Kerochat
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>
>>
The TalkCity Kerochat was a good experiment, but there are better ways.
Why the
past tense? Those who have gotten through are satisfied with it ( so
they
tell me). Java is the current technology. Why back out of it?
The next chat will be Sunday at 8:00 PM. The
subject line is the book
Visions
of Cody. Thanks for the support! Paul of TKQ..
>>
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:19:10 -0500
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From: MATT HANNAN
<MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>
Subject: Re: Character Names
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Thanks to everyone who responded to my
question. Don't know why I
thought Husker Du was in NL, must be my
caffeine addled brain. As far
as punk vs. metal--I was
generalizing--never was a fan of HD--big
Steely Dan fan though!
love and lilies,
matt
______________________________
Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject:
Re: Character Names
Author: tkc@zipcon.com at Internet
Date: 1/15/98 11:58 AM
husker
du was a 'concentration' type board game in the early 60s. its a
scandanavian
language that means 'do you remember'
i
thought the band was more punk than metal
tkc
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:04:18 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Tom Christopher
<tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization:
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Subject: Re: Character Names
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Timothy
K. Gallaher wrote:
>
Thanks for saying that. I was gonna say
metal?????
>
> I
saw them only once way back when when they came out from Minnesota to
>
California at the Mabuhay and this was punk rock time. They played with us,
>
them and Black Flag (as I recall)
>
>
This would be 1981 or 1982. Years later
the lines between punk and "metal"
>
began to blur.
>
>
Meat Puppets would be a simlar type of thing
never
saw em, but liked their records, same with black flag.
what
was mabuhay? what was yr band
meat
puppets...i...can't...quite......uh....i'm confusing with an early
metallica
album.....
punk
was about theatre, metal about showbiz....
tkc
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:08:08 -0800
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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Character Names
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At
01:04 PM 1/15/98 +0000, you wrote:
>Timothy
K. Gallaher wrote:
>
>>
Thanks for saying that. I was gonna say
metal?????
>>
>>
I saw them only once way back when when they came out from Minnesota to
>>
California at the Mabuhay and this was punk rock time. They played with us,
>>
them and Black Flag (as I recall)
>>
>>
This would be 1981 or 1982. Years later
the lines between punk and "metal"
>>
began to blur.
>>
>>
Meat Puppets would be a simlar type of thing
>
>never
saw em, but liked their records, same with black flag.
>what
was mabuhay? what was yr band
Mabuhay
Gardens was a Filipino Restaurant/Senior Citizens center on Broadway
(a
couple of blocks down from City Lights) where punk bands in San franciso
played
at night back in the late 70's and early 80's.
>meat
puppets...i...can't...quite......uh....i'm confusing with an early
>metallica
album.....
>punk
was about theatre, metal about showbiz....
>
>tkc
>
>
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:39:47 -0500
Reply-To: cmdumond@ehc.edu
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From: Chris Dumond <cmdumond@EHC.EDU>
Subject: the contest!
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Timothy
K. Gallaher wrote:
> I
take it this this post is your entry?
quoth
Kurt Vonnegut, quoth Kilgore Trout
"TING-A-LING!!!"
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:27:31 PST
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From: Greg Beaver-Seitz
<hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: HUSKER DU
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> I don't have a copy of Naked Lunch at
work, but I have all of you!
>>
>> Was there a character in NL called Husker
Du? (Yes, just like the
metal
band)
Just
need to clarify something.
Being
from near Minneapolis myself and with a few friends who are Husker
Du
fans, I can say that they are *not* a metal band.
Thank
you,
Greg
* * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*
Ginsberg etc. *
*
http://members.tripod.com/~Sprayberry *
*
Dozens of poems, pictures, info *
* * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:24:33 -0800
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@email.msn.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Subject: David
Hey
everyone. Just spoke with David. he's doing well and they've reduced
his
medication and will be trying a totally new one for him tonight, which
is
supposed to have less side effects. it
looks as though he'll be out of
the
hospital sometime this weekend and back feeding our heads with his
wonderful
insights.
ciao,
sherri
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:21:17 -0700
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From: "V.J. Eaton"
<vj@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Re: To Maher re:Kerochat
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>>Why
the past tense?
It's a
dead horse, don't feed it.
_________________________
>>Those
who have gotten through are satisfied with it . . .
That's
funny . . . -- this a saving grace?
"Those who have GOTTEN THROUGH"
as in
those
who had the patience to sit there for 20 minutes while the page loads,
gotten
through?
__________________________
>>Java
is the current technology. Why back out of it?
You
want to keep IRC in the browser? instead of using an IRC program because
"Java
is the current technology," is this yr argument? Because of Java?
Just
what do you think Java is doing for this browser-based Kerochat you are
so fond
of? Squat my man, it's doing
squat. It's slogging the browser with
overhead throwing ads in your face while running
iterations of banner text
and
cheap graphics. Not to mention reducing
screen real estate by 30%, as
if
that's not annoying.
___________________________
sof
START
OF FLAME
Maher,
I don't care if you have chat or not to be honest. Your idea is
good;
the application is bad.
And if
you hadn't let your ego bleed into yr response, I wld hv let this go.
But
I've listened to you parade in yr posts for so many months that I just
got to
fire one off . . .
<font
color="red" size=40000 face=braggadocio><b>
Eat this flame, Maher.
</b></font>
If I
ever ran into somebody who thinks he always has the best idea in town,
it's
got to be you.
And
that web page of yrs, while I'm picking . . . , whoodah! now that's a
<blink>gem
</blink> of a piece of work.
And you know enough about Java!
to
defend
it, you want us to believe.
Hmmmmmm. Now there's a snark.
You are
down south with a dose of "invented here," son. Get over it. Or,
maybe just as long as yr tickled w/ yourself, have
at it, I guess.
eof
END OF
FLAME
_____________________
More
harm is done under guise of goodness than ever realized
by foul
deed or evil doer. Nevertheless, I wish
I was good.
--Herbert
Huncke
V.J.
Eaton
Tempe,
AZ
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 18:31:42 EST
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From: IDDHI <IDDHI@AOL.COM>
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Subject: Re: To Maher re:Kerochat
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Fascinating
as this was, it DEFINITELY seems to fall into that category of
"messages
that should NOT have been sent to this list."
Surely
there must be a critique of web pages and computer programming nerd
list
where this can be better addressed?
Mr.
Eaton, if you've wanted to flame Mr. Maher for things he said, why did you
wait
until now to unload? Keeping that stuff inside just makes it unbearably
intense.
I'm
putting on my asbestos gloves before reading any more posts from this
list.
Maggie