=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 00:16:00 -0500

Reply-To:     "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@uwaterloo.ca>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Re: Wittgenstein?

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.PMDF.3.95.980119020147.570950359A-100000@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

To sum up:

 

> > There is an explicit reference that links (not attributes) Wittgenstein to

> > Burroughs' idea of the pre-recorded universe in The Ticket that Exploded:

> >

> > "Wittgenstein said: 'No proposition can contain itself as an argument' =

> > The only thing _not_ prerecorded in a prerecorded universe is the

> > prerecording itself which is to say _any_ recording that contains a random

> > factor" (TTE 166).

 

> Probably WSB was referring to these passages from the Tractatus:

>

>      3.331 From this observation we turn to Russell's 'theory of

>            types'. It can be seen that Russell must be wrong, because

>            he had to mention the meaning of signs when establishing

>            the rules for them.

>      3.332 No proposition can make a statement about itself, because a

>            propositional sign cannot be contained in itself (that is

>            the whole 'theory of types').

 

> So here is what I think happened: WSB simply used this phrase as a

> point of departure for his own thoughts. I do this a lot myself;

> reading something, a sentence or turn of phrase sends me off on a long

> train of thought that ends up having little or nothing to do with the

> original context of whatever I was reading. Wittgenstein's writing

> here was nothing more than an initial impetus for WSB, as far as I

> can tell. It's going too far to say that this idea was "instrumental"

> or an "influence". And of course the whole "film" and "recording"

> terminology (as well as the reference to "random factors") are

> entirely WSB's own.

 

Perhaps I was overenthusiastic in my choice of terminology. Point of

departure is probably a better way of looking at it. Bickering over

quantitative measurements of a qualitative system probably isn't advisable

(as Burroughs would have said (and did, in The Cat Inside among other

places)). The importance of Burroughs' citing Wittgenstein can be

overlooked, however the importance of Burroughs' notion of the prerecorded

universe cannot. It stands along with Hassan I Sabbah's "Nothing is True.

Everything is Permitted" and the Algebra of Need as one of the dominant

metaphysical/philosophical notions in his oeuvre. It's also one of the

trickiest to puzzle out.

 

> > On Language Games:

 

> > Tim Murphy's new book posits that "[Burroughs' work] emerges from the

> > liminal space of literature with a 'plan of living' rather than an

> > endlessly deferred 'participation in language games' or an empty 'love for

> > the world through language' a la John Barth." He makes a pretty convincing

> > argument too, and I'd refer you to him for the rest of it.

>

> "There is no characteristic common to everything we call games....

> instead we find a complicated network of similarities and

> relationships overlapping and crisscrossing....This feature of 'game'

> is one which Wittgenstein believed is shared with language, and this

> made it particularly appropriate to call particular mini-languages

> 'language-games'. There were others. Most importantly, even though not

> all games have rules, the function of rules in many games has

> similarities with the function of rules in language. Language-games,

> like games, need have no external goal; they can be autonomous

> activities. But the comparison of language to a game was not meant to

> suggest that language was a pastime, or something trivial: on the

> contrary, it was meant to bring out the connection between the

> speaking of language and non-linguistic activites. Indeed the speaking

> of language is part of a communal activity, a way of living im society

> which W. calls a 'form of life'. It is thru sharing in the playing of

> language-games that language is connected with our life."

> (from Anthony Kenny, _Wittgenstein_, p163)

>

> So *any* use of language is a language-game. A language-game is not a

> trivial use of language, as opposed to some serious purpose. Whether

> you're playing the same language-game as someone else depends on what

> rules you are following, what goals you have in mind, whether you

> share certain sorts of training in how to use the language and a

> shared history of its use (i.e. a form of life). Of course it's

> possible to switch from one language-game to another, and this is no

> doubt what WSB was trying to do: to shift us from a language-game in

> which language functions as an instrument of control to another game

> in which it does not.

 

I think what Tim Murphy was saying above, and I agree with him on this,

is that Burroughs does not use language in the way characterised by Kenny:

"Language-games, like games, need have no external goal; they can

be autonomous activities". Burroughs always had a program, an

extra-linguistic objective beyond words: to cut control lines, to find

silence, to get into space. In all of these he aimed to get past the

autonomous language games of infinite deferral. Although I admit that I

used game in the sense of trivial, I still think Burroughs was trying to

get beyond a system of language that could be characterized as a game,

with rules (cut control lines, cut word lines...) Burroughs' fragmentation

of text, and rewriting of history does not stem from a belief in the

inefficacy of all production (like Baudrillard's triumph of abstract

mediation, the nullity of all signs) but out of a project for freedom

from linguistic and socio-historical control.

 

Neil

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:36:44 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Who Will Take Over the Universe?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> David Bruce Rhaesa wrote:

>  We have complained about the poor treatment Allen received in

> year end reviews -- yet, we have failed to do any better.  So in

> tribute

> to Allen:

> Who Will Take Over the Universe?

>

> A bitter cold winter night

> conspirators at cafe tables

>         discovering mystic jails

> The Revolution in America

>         already begun not bombs but sit

>                 down strikes on top submarines,

>         on sidewalks nearby City Hall --

> How many families control the States?

>         Ignore the Government,

>                 send your protest to Clint Murchison.

> The Indians won their case with Judge McFate

>                         Peyote safe in Arizona --

>         In my room the sick junky

>                                 shivers on the 7th day

>                         Tearful, reborn to the Winter.

> Che Guevera has a big cock

>                                 Castro's balls are pink --

> The Ghost of John F. Dulles hangs

>                         over America like dirty linen

>         draped over the wintery red sunset,

>         Fumes of Unconscious Gas

>                         emanate from his corpse

>                 and hypnotize the Egyptian intellectuals --

> He grinds his teeth in horror & crosses his

>                         thigh bones over his skull

>         Dust flows out of his asshole

>                 his hands are full of bacteria

>                         The worm is at his eye --

>         He's declaring conterrevolutions in

>                                 the Worm-world,

>                 my cat threw him up last

>                                 Thursday.

> & Forrestal flew out his window like an Eagle --

> America's spending money to overthrow the Man.

>                 Who are the rulers of the earth?

>

> January 6, 1961

OK David, let's take up a discussion of this poem.  First of all, the

poem is intensely political and probably cannot be fully understood

without knowing who's who.  My impression is that Ginsberg is saying the

revolution has begun and inciting people to take an active stance in

changing America.

 

"Ignore the Government, send your protest to Clint Murchison"--Murchison

was a billionaire industrialist, probably in Ginsberg's eyes one of the

people responsible for Molach--banks, buildings, oil reserves, real

estate.

 

The Indians won their case with Judge McFate, in other words, drugs are

OK for religious purposes, peyote can be smoked by Native Americans, but

what about the junky shivering in my room? "Tearful, reborn to the

Winter" takes one into the emotional necessity of addiction and the bleak

toll it has on the user.  It also is saying loud and clear that if

all drugs were legal like peyote, much human suffering would be

eliminated.

 

"The Ghost of John F. Dulles hangs over America like dirty linen...Dust

flows out of his asshole, his hands are full of bacteria, The worm is at

his eye..."  Dulles is dead two years at this point but the cold war with

China he perpetuated as secretary of state lives on.  Ginsberg's own

views of peace, compassion, and harmony are at odds with the philosophy

of China as the enemy, with the idea of anyone taking over the universe.

 

"Forrestal flew out his window like an eagle"--also not a popular figure

with Ginsberg; he began the first U.S. peacetime draft in 1948 and then

1949, obsessed with invasion of America by its enemies, communists,

Russians, committed suicide by jumping out of his mental hospital window.

 

The whole sense I get from this image is that those making policy in

America are delusional; it's the same America we saw in Howl, the names

have changed but America is still on the wrong course, valuing money,

limiting personal freedoms (esp. in the area of drug use), making enemies

of Russia and China, and anyone in this country who sees other ideologies

and peoples as not entirely bad.

 

The most interesting question is perhaps: Who is the Man?  Is it Castro?

And the irony in the title question? "Who Will Take Over the

Universe? "Who are the rulers of the earth?"  Does America really have

the audacity to think of itself in this role?  Ginsberg was a poet of

human emotions but he was also intensely political.  He wanted people to

think about America, its goals, its ideals, and to tear apart those ideas

and actions that would have our nationalism become the world's

nationalism.  The idea of who will take over the universe? America,

Russia, China? is at the heart of sixties movements. But now, with the

cold war waining, perhaps the most powerful image of the poem that

remains is the sick junky, shivering on the 7th day, "tearful, reborn to

winter."

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 24 Jan 1998 23:07:09 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Who Will Take Over the Universe?

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>The Indians won their case with Judge McFate, in other words, drugs are

>OK for religious purposes, peyote can be smoked by Native Americans

 

I am very very pleased and happy to read this Diane.  I have often wondered

if anyone would like beat literature or be interested in it if they hadn't

been at one time or another drug users or aficionados a la the ob's

(original beats).

 

Indians (or anyone else for that matter) never smoked Peyote, it is not

taken that way.

 

This ain't a knock on you for your lack of knowledge, but quite the opposite.

 

 

 

(Anyhoo as well, John Dulles was right more than Ginsy.  But he did have

more information).

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 01:04:47 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Organization: smiling small thoughts

Subject:      Re: Who Will Take Over the Universe?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Diane Carter wrote:

>

> OK David, let's take up a discussion of this poem.  First of all, the

> poem is intensely political and probably cannot be fully understood

> without knowing who's who.  My impression is that Ginsberg is saying the

> revolution has begun and inciting people to take an active stance in

> changing America.

 

Here AG is powerfully predictive of the future successes of passive

resistance in America fighting segregationist policies of City Halls and

even further of the peace movement of the 1970s and early 80s with the

idea of linking sit-down strikes to the image of the submarine.  Are

these images pure prophecy or is Allen perhaps connecting the power of

resistance of some of the old communist and socialist thinking (not

always passive in manner) on which he was raised.  Can anyone else here

Joe Hill singing Wobblie songs in between the lines of the first words

in this poem?

>

> "Ignore the Government, send your protest to Clint Murchison"--Murchison

> was a billionaire industrialist, probably in Ginsberg's eyes one of the

> people responsible for Molach--banks, buildings, oil reserves, real

> estate.

 

This reveals the paradox facing the radical in these early revolutionary

days -- for who are we to protest against, a government at the time led

by the Kennedy clan's money or the underlying greed-machine he

represents in Murchison.  I found it interesting that the Kennedy nor

Eisenhower names did not appear in the poem so he seems to outwardly say

here that the true enemy and source of control does not reside in the

White House - but in the combination of corporate money and local city

halls.  This in some ways suggests a radical notion of thinking globally

at the source of evil and acting locally to bring about change on the

sidewalks of communities around the Universe.

 

The idea of ignoring the government is very important.  He specifically

says NOT to protest the government this would be a misdirection of

resistance.  His answer is to ignore the government.  But ignoring the

government is itself a form of protest.  At about the same time as this

poem is written Saul Alinsky is writing in Rules for Radicals to bring

about change by entering the system and fighting from within.  While AG

seems to accept this at the level of sidewalk citizenry he won't embrace

legitimizing the established system of government that protects the

Molochian machine.  By 1968 he seems to have moved from this view to

what Buckley would consider a rather less naive view of participating in

the protests at the Democratic National Convention.  Ironically, America

might have had it better if the radicals had followed the advice of this

poem.  Ignoring the process of National Politics might have achieved a

better revolutionary purpose.  As it was, the radical participation

seemed to split the democratic party into total political confusion and

assure the ascension of Poor Richard to the throne.  It seems to me that

the line between Alinsky and Allen's viewpoints is better served by what

i recently told my brother would be a movement of psychedelic or junkie

republicans.  In this manner the disruptions would have been

incorporated into the Republican camp balancing the hardliners and at

the same time ignoring the Democratic Convention and allowing the normal

procedures of Daley's Chicago to push through a candidate less Molochian

than Poor Richard.

 

>

> The Indians won their case with Judge McFate, in other words, drugs are

> OK for religious purposes, peyote can be smoked by Native Americans, but

> what about the junky shivering in my room? "Tearful, reborn to the

> Winter" takes one into the emotional necessity of addiction and the bleak

> toll it has on the user.  It also is saying loud and clear that if

> all drugs were legal like peyote, much human suffering would be

> eliminated.

 

In the years since this poem the insanity regarding narcotics policy in

the Universe makes these lines pound back and forth in my brain.  The

universe allows for methadone clinics but resists clean needle

programs.  The government condemns tobacco but subsidizes the tobacco

farmers.  Alcohol's failed prohibition leaves it untouched in the

building war on drugs and yet the government may (according to some news

reports i've posted) be playing both sides of this war.  Some of my

friends have been excited that the terminology of warfare is not

warranted with regard to the chaos of America's narcotic's policy and i

just shake my head.  AG is correct that bombs aren't the only

revolutionary and counter-revolutionary forces ---- and the control of

the synapses of the Universe - the pharmaceutical speed given ADD

children while an adult with a couple of joints is sent to prison to

write letters of grace and karma is far more than a skirmish in the

revolution that exists in the universe from the point of my conception

until the present -- the battle for the minds of the people in order to

make the hearts only broken fragments crying in asylums.

>

> "The Ghost of John F. Dulles hangs over America like dirty linen...Dust

> flows out of his asshole, his hands are full of bacteria, The worm is at

> his eye..."  Dulles is dead two years at this point but the cold war with

> China he perpetuated as secretary of state lives on.  Ginsberg's own

> views of peace, compassion, and harmony are at odds with the philosophy

> of China as the enemy, with the idea of anyone taking over the universe.

 

And Dulles' China view is taken full force by Poor Richard the words Red

China following him through the early and mid-sixties until he

flip-flops on China in April 1967 in a Foreign Affairs article and the

Universe twists from a two China policy of Taiwan and mainland China to

a one-China policy that nobody understands and the biggest irony in the

twisting is now the leftists hate the Chinese but out of political

correctness don't refer to them by red, yellow or any other colour.

>

> "Forrestal flew out his window like an eagle"--also not a popular figure

> with Ginsberg; he began the first U.S. peacetime draft in 1948 and then

> 1949, obsessed with invasion of America by its enemies, communists,

> Russians, committed suicide by jumping out of his mental hospital window.

 

Two things hit me in the forehead from this information.  First is the

connection of "flew like an eagle" with the beginning of Kesey's lovely

story "one flew east, one flew west, one flew over the cuckoo's nest."

This eagle trapped in the cuckoo's nest didn't fly out the window but

fell to his death.  The second is the image of the eagle and suicide

together.  The emblem of Americunnism and perhaps the least understood

cultural phenomenon in the Universe bound together in a phrase.

Fascinating.

>

> The whole sense I get from this image is that those making policy in

> America are delusional; it's the same America we saw in Howl, the names

> have changed but America is still on the wrong course, valuing money,

> limiting personal freedoms (esp. in the area of drug use), making enemies

> of Russia and China, and anyone in this country who sees other ideologies

> and peoples as not entirely bad.

 

What i find interesting is that Ginsberg is very definitely Naming

Enemies.  This is a change since the earlier poetry.  And your

elaboration on who these names are brings the imagery of Howl more into

focus for me.  It is easy to discuss evil in the abstract it becomes

difficult when we start connecting evil with particular individuals.

Evil in this poem is just as real but it is brought about by the actions

of human beings -- specific human beings -- and not vice versa in which

the evil controls the stage of human behavior.  The blame seems to shift

from Howl to here -- but maybe i'm mistaken.

>

> The most interesting question is perhaps: Who is the Man?

 

And is the man male? <grin>

 

thanks for your lovely post Diane and apologies for my brain straying

too far from your thoughts.  your post is so full of ideas that i might

make another run at it in a day or two.

 

dbr

> DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 00:08:30 +0000

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Who Will Take Over the Universe?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> Timothy,

 

well considering the way the stuff tastes  . . .you gotta wonder what it would

smelll like!

 

JS

 

>

>

> Indians (or anyone else for that matter) never smoked Peyote, it is not

> taken that way.

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 09:38:38 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUNET.YU>

Subject:      Re: Lewinsky-Clinton  /  Abishag-King David

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

IDDHI wrote:

>

>

> Jo Grant's post was entirely un-Beat. Comments about Ginsberg, in any context,

> are entirely Beat.

 

what is beat anyway? isn't beat a way of thinking and life, not just

discussing people who wrote it?

>

>

> Old-timers to the list, I think, should be especially sensitive to list

> content. The political/religious analogy Jo posted could easily have been sent

> to you directly, as a pal who seemed to enjoy it.

>

> I did not.

> MD

 

but, you can delete if you don't want to read. i mean, i may not be

interested either, but if you tell people what they can or cannot talk

about may sound like censorship.

 

ksenija

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 03:42:18 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         john boggs <jaboggs@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      a poem and a question

Content-Type: text/plain

 

for your pleasure...

 

 

  i wish i knew if my mind was like others

  are you as mad as i am? i'd ask

  you if i knew you wouldn't run away

  like you wanted to and did before

  are my worries anxieties tyrants

  hopes joys ecstasies the same as yours?

  what i mean is

  could you love me as i love you?

  i want to be INSIDE you

  r head and know you

  what a warm blanket of comfort

  this would be.

 

 

and this brings me to a question: what makes some one, or something,

beat? is this poem? and what exactly made allen's poetry beat? speaking

of whom...i know of few  people who sucked as long or as hard at the

teat of life as allen ginsberg did. or did i just hit on the answer

myself right there?

 

john b

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 03:55:25 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         john boggs <jaboggs@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Lewinsky-Clinton / Abishag-King David

Content-Type: text/plain

 

ksenija wrote:

>

>IDDHI wrote:

>>

>>

>> Jo Grant's post was entirely un-Beat. Comments about Ginsberg, in any

context,

>> are entirely Beat.

>

>what is beat anyway? isn't beat a way of thinking and life, not just

>discussing people who wrote it?

>>

>>

>> Old-timers to the list, I think, should be especially sensitive to

list

>> content. The political/religious analogy Jo posted could easily have

been sent

>> to you directly, as a pal who seemed to enjoy it.

>>

>> I did not.

>> MD

>

>but, you can delete if you don't want to read. i mean, i may not be

>interested either, but if you tell people what they can or cannot talk

>about may sound like censorship.

>

>ksenija

>

censorship? i think not... more like an attempt to guide the dialogue in

more meaningful ways. would restricting speakers in a lecture series to

a single general topic be censorship as well?

 

john b

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 07:13:47 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: who will take over the universe?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Barney.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 07:28:51 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: sleeipng

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> patricia: as usual, you show the humanity of wsb (your william, i would

> not usurp yr name for him, his first name, the one of the beats who was

> not refeerrd to many times by his given name.

 

thank you again for your thoughtful, human, intellegent responses.mc

 

> william's night.

> half a sleep during his quiet.

> listening to the sounds of the house.

> he always took care of his sleep, furnace off, water everywhere,

> sump pump put in, not sumping,

> a heavier sound than  cat,

> racoon comingin to the k early morning night,

> padding in his jams, fixing a special bowl

> for one feline or both. muttering my pretty

>

> pitch pace

>

> so david, i have loved your posts, and i am listening in you say i

> should posts these thoughts i have for while they may have no point it

> is nice to share.  i was stunned at the post that said that these were

> ordinary guys that lucked out with a good publicity,  the publicity

> might of made or helped their careers but having meet both allen and

> william, neither were ordinary men. But many people aren't ordinary,

> many are. I am not an ordinary person, doesn't mean i will ever be

> famous or influential etc. but to imagine thoseguys as ordinary men with

> ordinary talents would be wrong. no meaning to the word extraordinary

> if  you think that.  Extraordinary people scare, offend and stick out,

> even if they are harmless and to not much point. They also are often

> fun, imaginative, creative, and sometimes like allen and william men of

> genius.  I know that william is great to many for being the writer and

> artist he was, to some this is much more important than the man he was.

> I liked the man he was.  I am not an intellectual, i have a native

> intelligence and i love that both these guys had a will to really live

> their lives.

> hey my pen name has been patricia elliott for a long time, tonight i

> thought of changing it to Pitch pace, i thought it was kind of bouncy.

> love to you "old timers and young snappers.

> patricia

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 07:26:00 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Who Will Take Over the Universe?

 

Tim - i have heard that Indians have in fact smoked peyote.  used to live

near a reservation in the Sierra Nevadas.  it's not traditional, apparently,

but it does happen.

 

ciao, sherri

-----Original Message-----

From: Timothy K. Gallaher <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Saturday, January 24, 1998 11:10 PM

Subject: Re: Who Will Take Over the Universe?

 

 

>>The Indians won their case with Judge McFate, in other words, drugs are

>>OK for religious purposes, peyote can be smoked by Native Americans

>

>I am very very pleased and happy to read this Diane.  I have often wondered

>if anyone would like beat literature or be interested in it if they hadn't

>been at one time or another drug users or aficionados a la the ob's

>(original beats).

>

>Indians (or anyone else for that matter) never smoked Peyote, it is not

>taken that way.

>

>This ain't a knock on you for your lack of knowledge, but quite the

opposite.

>

>

>

>(Anyhoo as well, John Dulles was right more than Ginsy.  But he did have

>more information).

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 07:30:48 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: who will take over the universe?

 

HAHAHAHA!!!  you're too funny.  i could  even hear you say it, girl.  how ya

doin this morning?  ciao, sherri

-----Original Message-----

From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Sunday, January 25, 1998 4:16 AM

Subject: Re: who will take over the universe?

 

 

>Barney.

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:48:01 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Wittgenstein? (and Nietzsche)

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.ULT.3.95q.980120135141.9490A-100000@noether.math.uwaterloo.ca>

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Neil M. Hennessy wrote:

 

> places)). The importance of Burroughs' citing Wittgenstein can be

> overlooked, however the importance of Burroughs' notion of the prerecorded

> universe cannot. It stands along with Hassan I Sabbah's "Nothing is True.

> Everything is Permitted" and the Algebra of Need as one of the dominant

> metaphysical/philosophical notions in his oeuvre. It's also one of the

> trickiest to puzzle out.

 

You know, I've often wondered why Nietzsche isn't mentioned more often

in connection with WSB, or in WSB's own work. There seems to be a much

more organic similarity with Nietzsche than with Wittgenstein. Not

least because N also cited HiS's motto:

 

   When the Christian crusaders in the Orient encountered the

   invincible order of Assassins, that order of free spirits *par

   excellence*, whose lowest ranks followed a rule of obedience the

   like of which no order of monks ever attained, they obtained in

   some way or other a hint concerning that symbol and watchword

   reserved for the highest ranks alone as their *secretum*: "Nothing

   is true, everything is permitted."--Very well, *that* was *freedom*

   of spirit; in *that* way the faith in truth itself was *abrogated*.

   Has any European, any Christian free spirit ever strayed into this

   proposition and into its labyrinthine consequences? has one of them

   ever known the Minotaur of this cave *from experience*?--I doubt

   it....  (_On the Genealogy of Morals_ Third essay, section 24)

 

   It suffices that the more superficially and coarsely it is

   conceived, the more valuable, definite, beautiful, and significant

   the world appears. The deeper one looks, the more our valuations

   disappear--meaninglessness approaches! We have *created* the world

   that possesses values! Knowing this, we know, too, that reverence

   for truth is already the consequence of an illusion--and that one

   should value more than truth the force that forms, simplifies,

   shapes, invents. "Everything is false! Everything is permitted!"

   Only with a certain obtuseness of vision, a will to simplification,

   does the beautiful, the "valuable" appear....

   (_The Will to Power_ section 602)

 

> > > On Language Games:

>

> > > Tim Murphy's new book posits that "[Burroughs' work] emerges from the

> > > liminal space of literature with a 'plan of living' rather than an

> > > endlessly deferred 'participation in language games' or an empty 'love for

> > > the world through language' a la John Barth." He makes a pretty convincing

> > > argument too, and I'd refer you to him for the rest of it.

>

> I think what Tim Murphy was saying above, and I agree with him on this,

> is that Burroughs does not use language in the way characterised by Kenny:

> "Language-games, like games, need have no external goal; they can

> be autonomous activities". Burroughs always had a program, an

> extra-linguistic objective beyond words: to cut control lines, to find

> silence, to get into space. In all of these he aimed to get past the

> autonomous language games of infinite deferral. Although I admit that I

> used game in the sense of trivial, I still think Burroughs was trying to

> get beyond a system of language that could be characterized as a game,

> with rules (cut control lines, cut word lines...) Burroughs' fragmentation

> of text, and rewriting of history does not stem from a belief in the

> inefficacy of all production (like Baudrillard's triumph of abstract

> mediation, the nullity of all signs) but out of a project for freedom

> from linguistic and socio-historical control.

 

While language-games *need not* have an external goal, they *can* have

one, so this account of language-games is not really inconsistent with

having extra-linguistic objectives. But for W, language *as a whole*

cannot be said to aim at any goal, just as *games in general* do not

aim at a single goal--and in *this* sense, therefore, the rules of

language are arbitrary:

 

   Why don't I call cookery rules arbitray, and why am I tempted to

   call the rules of grammar arbitrary? Because I think of the concept

   "cookery" as defined by the end of cookery, and I don't think of

   the concept "language" as defined by the end of language. You cook

   badly if you are guided in your cooking by rules other than the

   right ones; but if you follow rules other than those of chess you

   are playing another game; and if you follow grammatical rules other

   than such and such ones, that does not mean you say something

   wrong, no, you are speaking of something else.

   (LW, _Philosophical Grammar_ section 133)

 

One of the difficulties I've found with Wittgenstein is that it's just

about impossible to get any critical traction in his work. Every time

you attempt to make an objection, the answer is always, "Well, you're

just playing a different language-game."

 

When WSB attempts to cut the control lines by getting beyond words, he

must, qua writer, still use words. Here again I think Nietzsche may be

of more help, with his notion of "self-overcoming": "All great things

bring about their own destruction through an act of self-overcoming"

(Genealogy of Morals, 3rd essay #27)--in other words, the very forces

that made a thing what it is are the very same forces that eventually

bring about that thing's movement beyond itself. For Nietzsche, it is

the *value* of truth, when its consequences are followed out to

the end that throws into question truth itself, and thus leads to

the realization that "Nothing is true...."

 

So in WSB: the power and logic of language is brought to turn against

itself. But with Witt., it's not even clear that one language-game can

meaningfully talk about another language-game. The most you could ever

say about this from a Wittgensteinian perspective is that WSB simply

switched language-games, leaving all others untouched. No friction.

 

So if we are to avoid both this situation, as

well as the claim that WSB simply contradicts himself by *writing*

about the end of language, we would need a different, more powerful

interpretive framework: N's conception of self-overcoming, perhaps.

So it appears to me that Nietzsche contains, perhaps, much more

powerful resources for helping us to undertand WSB's work than

Wittgenstein.

 

(For more on self-overcoming, & besides N. himself, an interesting

book is _The Question of Ethics_ by Charles E Scott, Indiana UP 1990)

 

*******

Jeff Taylor

taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

*******

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:06:06 -0600

Reply-To:     cawilkie@comic.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>

Subject:      beat vs. nonbeat-- a helpful guide

Comments: cc: country@sover.net

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Okay, i've scanned the list for the last week and a half, and i have

come up with this handy guide for everyone...

 

 

 

 

___BEAT ______________                         _____NOTBEAT_

 

_________________________

changes in naked lunch text               ny times onlyrecallingginsyfor

                                           his part in theivery

 

 

catholicism                                cia

 

 

 

jack and allen jerking                      matrimony proposals on-line

 one another off after parties

 

 

 

homosexuality                                homophobia

 

 

 

kerouac as straight queer?                   cybersex

 

 

kerouac is a poet                            kerouac is not a poet

 

 

tom waits                                     kurt cobain

 

 

keroac/ginsberg sex life                      Lewinsky/Clinton sex life

 

 

zyprexa blues                                007 movies

 

 

pull my daisy                                a movie being made

from                                              'breakfast of

champions'

                                              possibly starring

bruce                                              willis

 

 

capital letters                               no capital letters

 

 

 

cold war                                      gulf war

 

 

 

posts complaining about non-beat posts        posting non-beat posts

 

 

 

 

 

hope i helped everyone out on determining what is beat and what isn't

beat.  Sometimes i think the world in general should slow down and

listen to how stupid it sounds at times.

 

objectively yours,

 

cathy

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 04:45:53 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Who Will Take Over the Universe?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> David Bruce Rhaesa wrote:

 

> Here AG is powerfully predictive of the future successes of passive

> Are these images pure prophecy or is Allen perhaps connecting the

> power of

> resistance of some of the old communist and socialist thinking (not

> always passive in manner) on which he was raised.  Can anyone else here

> Joe Hill singing Wobblie songs in between the lines of the first words

> in this poem?

I think the whole idea of "conspirators at cafe tables" and "mystic

jails" are part of the idea that if one has positions out of the

mainstream, like communist ideals, than one is put in a position of

secretism and conspirators have to be hidden, no one talks openly about

it.

 

Much like in "America" where he says, " America when I was seven momma

took me to Communist Cell meetings they sold us garbanzos a handful per

ticket a ticket costs a nickel and the speeches were free everybody was

angelic and sentimental about the workers it was all so sincere you have

no idea what a good thing the party was....Everybody must have been a

spy."

 

> The idea of ignoring the government is very important.  He specifically

> says NOT to protest the government this would be a misdirection of

> resistance.  His answer is to ignore the government.  But ignoring the

> government is itself a form of protest. [snipped]

> By 1968 he seems to have moved from this view to

> what Buckley would consider a rather less naive view of participating

> in

> the protests at the Democratic National Convention.  Ironically,

> America

> might have had it better if the radicals had followed the advice of

> this

> poem.  Ignoring the process of National Politics might have achieved a

> better revolutionary purpose.

 

Ignoring the goverment does nothing more than perpetuate its negatives.

For instance, by not voting one is consenting to, accepting the stance of

the current government.  Ginsberg, at some point, saw that action is the

only course for revolutionary change.  Ignoring the Vietnam war would not

have changed the attitude of America concerning it; it was the masses

taking to the streets in protest that showed the government there was not

only another side to the situation but it was a vocal side that insisted

on change.

 

> AG is correct that bombs aren't the only

> revolutionary and counter-revolutionary forces ---- and the control of

> the synapses of the Universe - the pharmaceutical speed given ADD

> children while an adult with a couple of joints is sent to prison to

> write letters of grace and karma is far more than a skirmish in the

> revolution that exists in the universe from the point of my conception

> until the present -- the battle for the minds of the people in order to

> make the hearts only broken fragments crying in asylums.

 

Well, the whole campaign of "just say no to drugs" is a war against the

minds of Americans,  just a bit subtler then saying Russia and China

wants to take over the universe.  In saying drugs are bad, you are also

setting up the idea that people who use drugs are bad.  That opens up the

judgement that it is right to put people in jail for a couple joints, and

even as we see now, charging poor women with child abuse for using drugs

while pregnant.  Nicotine is a legal drug but the freedom to smoke now is

practically regulated to the home. America's drug policies have always

been screwed up because drug users are not seen as voters that can affect

change in government policy.

 

> What i find interesting is that Ginsberg is very definitely Naming

> Enemies.  This is a change since the earlier poetry.  And your

> elaboration on who these names are brings the imagery of Howl more into

> focus for me.  It is easy to discuss evil in the abstract it becomes

> difficult when we start connecting evil with particular individuals.

> Evil in this poem is just as real but it is brought about by the   >

> actions

> of human beings -- specific human beings -- and not vice versa in which

> the evil controls the stage of human behavior.  The blame seems to  >

> shift

> from Howl to here -- but maybe i'm mistaken.

 

I think evil is the same as it was in Howl but yes, by naming names he

starts to put faces on it. Dulles, in particular, is named in many of the

poems during this time period.  Also, the title of this particular book

of poems is "Planet News: To Europe and Asia" which probably denotes AG's

need to "enlighten" Europe and Asia to what he sees as the "behind the

scenes" agenda of the American government.

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 15:45:05 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Re: quote search

In-Reply-To:  <34C51B16.322D@midusa.net>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, David Bruce Rhaesa wrote:

 

> Preston Whaley wrote:

> >

> > A week or so back someone posted the following quote by Burroughs:  "All

> > agents defect, and all resisters sellout." Does anyone know the source?

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Preston

>

> i tried several forms of searches at Bigtable database with no luck.

>

> dbr

>

Should have used the concordance. It's on page 205 of whatever edition of

Naked Lunch Luke used to compile the concordance. The link to the page on

his site is:

http://www.bigtable.com/library/naked_lunch/205.html

 

Thanks again to Luke for putting up such a great resource.

 

Neil

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 15:51:36 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Re: The word "random" and WSB

In-Reply-To:  <34C783F0.37E7@midusa.net>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, David Bruce Rhaesa wrote:

 

> If people can backchannel me specific references and quotations

> concerning the meanings of "random" from WSB or other beat authors I

> would appreciate it.

 

Burroughs said "there is no such thing as a coincidence. How random is

random?" In the Magical Universe nothing happens unless something wills it

to happen.

 

Neil

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 15:59:51 -0500

Reply-To:     "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@uwaterloo.ca>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Re: Changes in Naked Lunch text

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.PMDF.3.95.980123042959.570757087A-100000@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Jeff Taylor wrote:

 

> I also recently read "The Central Verbal System: The Prose of William

> Burroughs" by Michael Skau (who is on this list, I believe), in which

> he states, in the course of giving an account of WSB's various methods

> for combating verbal control, that "Burroughs also refuses to correct

> typographical errors in his prose....These errata comprise further

> assaults on verbal control." But this claim may have to be revised,

> depending on who is responsible for the changes in NL.

 

Do you have the biblio info for the article above? I'd like to see the

source for the line you quoted. Maybe Michael can elaborate, if he's out

there?

 

Neil

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:57:39 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Organization: smiling small thoughts

Subject:      Re: Wittgenstein? (and Nietzsche)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Jeff Taylor wrote:

>

> On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Neil M. Hennessy wrote:

>

> > places)). The importance of Burroughs' citing Wittgenstein can be

> > overlooked, however the importance of Burroughs' notion of the prerecorded

> > universe cannot. It stands along with Hassan I Sabbah's "Nothing is True.

> > Everything is Permitted" and the Algebra of Need as one of the dominant

> > metaphysical/philosophical notions in his oeuvre. It's also one of the

> > trickiest to puzzle out.

>

> You know, I've often wondered why Nietzsche isn't mentioned more often

> in connection with WSB, or in WSB's own work. There seems to be a much

> more organic similarity with Nietzsche than with Wittgenstein. Not

> least because N also cited HiS's motto:

>

Jeff and Neil,

 

while my philosophy of language background is way too dusty to keep up

with y'all (and i was more into Kenneth Burke than Wittgenstein) i must

say i absolutely love your discussions.  each post makes my head spin

around at least once.  after i have let a post spin my head four or five

times i promptly delete it and wait for another headspinner to come our

way.  looking forward to more.

 

seriously, i feel that embedded in the writings of William Burroughs is

an unindexed briefing of one of the finest philosopher's of language of

the century.  i hope that the efforts y'all put into the study of such

things will eventually percolate to where he is discussed across the

University and not just in a few renegade literature courses.

 

dbr

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 16:05:49 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Re: Changes in Naked Lunch text

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.PMDF.3.95.980123042959.570757087A-100000@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Jeff Taylor wrote:

 

> > > xlvi/xviii.9fr btm     Occam --> Ockham

 

Apparently he inherited this from Wittgenstein, who spells William of

Ockam's name "Occam" in proposition 3.328 of the Tractatus: "If a sign is

not necessary then it is meaningless. That is the meaning of Occam's

razor."

 

Neil

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 16:15:39 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sara Feustle <sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>

Subject:      Beat vs. Non-Beat, blah, blah, blah...

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

You know, discussions about what is "Beat" and what is "not Beat," are

really very non-Beat.... Pardon my non-Beatness in pointing that out. The

whole "Kerouac 'no poet'?!?!?!" discussion was actually very productive, I

think. It lead to a lot of thinking, discussion, and a lot of really,

really "Beat" emotional spewing. It was highly productive in other ways,

too, but that's a looooooonnng story. *laughing hysterically* The story

itself is actually as "Beat" as you can get... Right, Thomas? *laughing

even harder* Ik hou van je!

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 16:42:03 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: a poem and a question

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

was this poem by ginsberg? was it? what's the name? i love it, someone please

tell me.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:01:03 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         john boggs <jaboggs@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: a poem and a question

Content-Type: text/plain

 

>

>was this poem by ginsberg? was it? what's the name? i love it, someone

please

>tell me.

>

i wrote it last night and was rather hoping it would please someone. i

am still blushing from the comparison to allen ginsberg!  ;->

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 22:55:55 +0100

Reply-To:     thomas.van.moortel@skynet.be

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Thomas Van Moortel <thomas.van.moortel@SKYNET.BE>

Organization: None

Subject:      Re: Beat vs. Non-Beat, blah, blah, blah...

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Sara Feustle wrote:

>

> You know, discussions about what is "Beat" and what is "not Beat," are

> really very non-Beat.... Pardon my non-Beatness in pointing that out. The

> whole "Kerouac 'no poet'?!?!?!" discussion was actually very productive, I

> think. It lead to a lot of thinking, discussion, and a lot of really,

> really "Beat" emotional spewing. It was highly productive in other ways,

> too, but that's a looooooonnng story. *laughing hysterically* The story

> itself is actually as "Beat" as you can get... Right, Thomas? *laughing

> even harder* Ik hou van je!

 

All Beat-Les,

 

Let's just say: ik hou van je is Dutch for 'I love you'.

 

                                'nuff said'?

 

                        I love you all and Sara especially,

                        enough to get my ass to Ohio within

                        14 days or so.

 

                                                Thomas,

                                          loving his life out

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 07:00:33 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      New York Times

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Thanks Bill for your letter to NY Times Magazine supporting AG's

accomplishments.  I also noticed that in the today's special section on

New York, 100 Years, Alfred Kazin's article on great New York writers

conveniently omitted AG.

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:32:31 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sara Feustle <sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Beat vs. Non-Beat, blah, blah, blah...

In-Reply-To:  <34CBB4EB.6DCA@skynet.be>

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

See what I mean? The dude's going "on the road" for me! It just doesn't

get any more Beat than that!!! *laughing hysterically again* Now

"everything" has happened on this list....

 

                         Sara Feustle

                    sfeustl@uoft02.utoledo.edu

                      Cronopio, cronopio?

 

 

On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Thomas Van Moortel wrote:

 

> Sara Feustle wrote:

> >

> > You know, discussions about what is "Beat" and what is "not Beat," are

> > really very non-Beat.... Pardon my non-Beatness in pointing that out. The

> > whole "Kerouac 'no poet'?!?!?!" discussion was actually very productive, I

> > think. It lead to a lot of thinking, discussion, and a lot of really,

> > really "Beat" emotional spewing. It was highly productive in other ways,

> > too, but that's a looooooonnng story. *laughing hysterically* The story

> > itself is actually as "Beat" as you can get... Right, Thomas? *laughing

> > even harder* Ik hou van je!

>

> All Beat-Les,

>

> Let's just say: ik hou van je is Dutch for 'I love you'.

>

>                                 'nuff said'?

>

>                         I love you all and Sara especially,

>                         enough to get my ass to Ohio within

>                         14 days or so.

>

>                                                 Thomas,

>                                           loving his life out

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 18:05:11 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         IDDHI <IDDHI@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      a place for aspiring writers?

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

Since so many people on this listserv write, and there have been a few

requests for places to publish, I thought I'd pass this link along:

http://www.worldwidemagazines.com/literary2.html

 

Apparently a number of the magazines listed here encourage unpublished writers

and poets, and are actively seeking submissions all the time.

 

Few presses were available for avant garde and non-traditional stuff like Beat

writers wrote in the Fifties. One thing I always really liked about them was

their penchant for making little chapbooks, mimeographs of their works (who

remembers mimeos?) Seems like Brautigan was especially big on that. I've seen

people in recent days who've done the same thing, at PIP or Kinko's, then

stood on street corners or found shelf space in record stores, where they gave

their work away, partly to share beauty, and partly just to be read.

 

I'd love to experience something as earth-shattering as the reading at the Six

Gallery, but where are the poets? Surely we have enough to rage against today

as the Beat Generation did.

 

By the way, I'm not a poet, but I like it, as I've stated before in posts.

Seems to me, though, that most readings around here happen at Barnes&Noble or

something and are merchandising tie-ins to new books.

 

Publish or perish, or, failing that, organize a reading, and invite me!

 

Incognito in L.A.,

Maggie

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 18:17:31 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Organization: smiling small thoughts

Subject:      ik hou van je    (was Re: Beat vs. Non-Beat, blah, blah, blah...

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Thomas Van Moortel wrote:

>

> Sara Feustle wrote:

> >

> > You know, discussions about what is "Beat" and what is "not Beat," are

> > really very non-Beat.... Pardon my non-Beatness in pointing that out. The

> > whole "Kerouac 'no poet'?!?!?!" discussion was actually very productive, I

> > think. It lead to a lot of thinking, discussion, and a lot of really,

> > really "Beat" emotional spewing. It was highly productive in other ways,

> > too, but that's a looooooonnng story. *laughing hysterically* The story

> > itself is actually as "Beat" as you can get... Right, Thomas? *laughing

> > even harder* Ik hou van je!

>

> All Beat-Les,

>

> Let's just say: ik hou van je is Dutch for 'I love you'.

>

>                                 'nuff said'?

>

>                         I love you all and Sara especially,

>                         enough to get my ass to Ohio within

>                         14 days or so.

>

>                                                 Thomas,

>                                           loving his life out

 

ik hou van je broncos

 

gypsy davey

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 01:32:16 +0100

Reply-To:     thomas.van.moortel@skynet.be

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Thomas Van Moortel <thomas.van.moortel@SKYNET.BE>

Organization: None

Subject:      It's beat, it's love, Davey Isn't

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

David Bruce Rhaesa wrote:

>

> Thomas Van Moortel wrote:

> >

> > Sara Feustle wrote:

> > >

> > > You know, discussions about what is "Beat" and what is "not Beat," are

> > > really very non-Beat.... Pardon my non-Beatness in pointing that out. The

> > > whole "Kerouac 'no poet'?!?!?!" discussion was actually very productive, I

> > > think. It lead to a lot of thinking, discussion, and a lot of really,

> > > really "Beat" emotional spewing. It was highly productive in other ways,

> > > too, but that's a looooooonnng story. *laughing hysterically* The story

> > > itself is actually as "Beat" as you can get... Right, Thomas? *laughing

> > > even harder* Ik hou van je!

> >

> > All Beat-Les,

> >

> > Let's just say: ik hou van je is Dutch for 'I love you'.

> >

> >                                 'nuff said'?

> >

> >                         I love you all and Sara especially,

> >                         enough to get my ass to Ohio within

> >                         14 days or so.

> >

> >                                                 Thomas,

> >                                           loving his life out

>

> ik hou van je broncos

>

> gypsy davey

 

Hey Davey,

 

Pass interference against the Bronco's & gypsy Davey!

 

TRUE LOVE on a beat-l and you're watching the Super Bowl?

 

Do you know where Belgium is, as opposed to Ohio?

 

                                        Favre to the end zone

                                           Go Packers !

 

                                        I LOVE SARA FEUSTLE !

 

                                                --Thomas

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 19:56:04 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         IDDHI <IDDHI@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: It's beat, it's love, Davey Isn't

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

In a message dated 25-Jan-98 4:44:16 PM Pacific Standard Time,

thomas.van.moortel@skynet.be writes:

 

<<  I LOVE SARA FEUSTLE !

 

                                                 --Thomas >>

 

Sara, Thomas... get a room, willya?

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 20:13:15 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sara Feustle <sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>

Subject:      Re: ik hou van je    (was Re: Beat vs. Non-Beat, blah, blah,

              blah...

In-Reply-To:  <34CBD61B.2280@midusa.net>

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

> ik hou van je broncos

>

> gypsy davey

>

        Fick die Broncos, die Packers werden gewinnen!!! Actually, I

could give a rat's ass about either team... my poor Cowboys really sucked

this year.... *sniff* Football, there's a beat topic... I wonder if there

is any footage of Kerouac playing football....

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 20:16:36 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sara Feustle <sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>

Subject:      Re: It's beat, it's love, Davey Isn't

In-Reply-To:  <34CBD990.3A82@skynet.be>

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

I'm not watching the damn Superbowl, I'm thinking about Thomas and reading

medieval German literature!  The Packers will prevail, whoooo-hoooooo!!!

 

> Hey Davey,

>

> Pass interference against the Bronco's & gypsy Davey!

>

> TRUE LOVE on a beat-l and you're watching the Super Bowl?

>

> Do you know where Belgium is, as opposed to Ohio?

>

>                                         Favre to the end zone

>                                            Go Packers !

>

>                                         I LOVE SARA FEUSTLE !

>

>                                                 --Thomas

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 20:18:56 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sara Feustle <sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>

Subject:      Re: It's beat, it's love, Davey Isn't

In-Reply-To:  <56ca234c.34cbdf26@aol.com>

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Well, actually, IDDHI... heh-heh-heh.... give us a couple days...

heh-heh-heh.... Heh-heh-heh...  We'll spare you the details... *lol*

 

On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, IDDHI wrote:

 

> In a message dated 25-Jan-98 4:44:16 PM Pacific Standard Time,

> thomas.van.moortel@skynet.be writes:

>

> <<  I LOVE SARA FEUSTLE !

>

>                                                  --Thomas >>

>

> Sara, Thomas... get a room, willya?

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 20:40:30 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         IDDHI <IDDHI@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: It's beat, it's love, Davey Isn't

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

In a message dated 25-Jan-98 5:21:07 PM Pacific Standard Time,

sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU writes:

 

<< Well, actually, IDDHI... heh-heh-heh.... give us a couple days...

 heh-heh-heh.... Heh-heh-heh...  We'll spare you the details... *lol*

  >>

 

Thinking of writing a long dissertation titled, "The Tyrrany of Stupidity: Why

Newsgroups Don't Work."

 

Any thoughts?

MD

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 20:36:57 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mark Ricard <bonmark@WEBTV.NET>

Subject:      Re: It's beat, it's love, Davey Isn't

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)

 

You and I must be the only ones not watching the game.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 20:49:46 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Creeeeeeep <Creeeeeeep@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: It's beat, it's love, Davey Isn't

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

I'm not either

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 02:52:03 +0100

Reply-To:     thomas.van.moortel@skynet.be

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Thomas Van Moortel <thomas.van.moortel@SKYNET.BE>

Organization: None

Subject:      Re: It's beat, it's love, Davey Isn't

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

IDDHI wrote:

>

> In a message dated 25-Jan-98 5:21:07 PM Pacific Standard Time,

> sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU writes:

>

> << Well, actually, IDDHI... heh-heh-heh.... give us a couple days...

>  heh-heh-heh.... Heh-heh-heh...  We'll spare you the details... *lol*

>   >>

>

> Thinking of writing a long dissertation titled, "The Tyrrany of Stupidity: Why

> Newsgroups Don't Work."

>

> Any thoughts?

> MD

 

Actually, I was just thinking about the Bible quote from Pulp Fiction

"...and the tyrrany of evil men".

Newsgroups probably don't work cos it just ain't worth it anytime

you post something you can be a 100% sure somebody's gonna be offended

or is gonna bitch about beat-l or nor beat-l.

Have a fucking sense of humor.  But then, I'm in love...

 

So shoot me.

 

                                                --Thomas.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 21:17:47 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sara Feustle <sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>

Subject:      Beauty and Ugliness on Beat-L...

In-Reply-To:  <34CBEC42.242C@skynet.be>

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

>

> Actually, I was just thinking about the Bible quote from Pulp Fiction

> "...and the tyrrany of evil men".

> Newsgroups probably don't work cos it just ain't worth it anytime

> you post something you can be a 100% sure somebody's gonna be offended

> or is gonna bitch about beat-l or nor beat-l.

> Have a fucking sense of humor.  But then, I'm in love...

>

> So shoot me.

>

 

        Well said, my love... I was about to reply to that bit of

snottiness when I saw that you already had...

 

        IDDHI:

        I mean, really, man, don't y'all know that pettiness and a total

lack of humor is as anti-Beat as Rush Limbaugh??? You're the one that

opened that can of worms, so don't be getting pissed off at us!

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 21:19:44 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         IDDHI <IDDHI@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: It's beat, it's love, Davey Isn't

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

In a message dated 25-Jan-98 6:02:25 PM Pacific Standard Time,

thomas.van.moortel@skynet.be writes:

 

<< Have a fucking sense of humor. >>

 

I have a great sense of humor. I just don't happen to see what's humorous (if

that's your intention) about the personal correspondence between two people

that should be done by back channel.

 

Retitle your posts to read something like "personal bullshit sent to waste

listserv space," and I'll be able to delete them without reading them and will

have no comment whatsoever.

 

MD

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 20:21:18 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Organization: smiling small thoughts

Subject:      Re: Beauty and Ugliness on Beat-L...

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Sara Feustle wrote:

>

> >

> > Actually, I was just thinking about the Bible quote from Pulp Fiction

> > "...and the tyrrany of evil men".

> > Newsgroups probably don't work cos it just ain't worth it anytime

> > you post something you can be a 100% sure somebody's gonna be offended

> > or is gonna bitch about beat-l or nor beat-l.

> > Have a fucking sense of humor.  But then, I'm in love...

> >

> > So shoot me.

> >

>

>         Well said, my love... I was about to reply to that bit of

> snottiness when I saw that you already had...

>

>         IDDHI:

>         I mean, really, man, don't y'all know that pettiness and a total

> lack of humor is as anti-Beat as Rush Limbaugh??? You're the one that

> opened that can of worms, so don't be getting pissed off at us!

 

OR---

Defense broncos DEFENSE!!!!!

dbr

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 21:28:51 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sara Feustle <sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Beauty and Ugliness on Beat-L...

In-Reply-To:  <34CBF31E.55C5@midusa.net>

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

> OR---

> Defense broncos DEFENSE!!!!!

> dbr

>

        *rolling on the floor* How's that damn game going, anyway?

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 18:35:51 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: ik hou van je (was Re: Beat vs. Non-Beat, blah, blah, blah...

Content-Type: text/plain

 

>ik hou van je broncos

>

>gypsy davey

>

 

hahahahaha...

 

-greg

 

ps- i would have really liked to have seen broncos v. 49ers.. the two

beatest cities battling it out with the ol' pigskin...

 

 

 

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 21:06:51 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      crap and humor

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

so if i think posts are drivel and not very interesting i don't have a

sense of humor, gee, i just thought they were boring posts,  i didn't

get there was some super secret humor to them. i sure didn't follow

that, was it by chopping up the posts and crappy remarks until something

of intelligence emerges.  This most be all my fault, or i aren't beat

enouf. i should of realized i  wanted to hear about oj, clinton, di, or

beef suits  it snot crap, it hot freedom of speech issues, unavailable

to us except on such escoteric shows such as hard copy. well,  to make

this a legel eagle post, if anyone wants an rivercity reunion program,

shoot me your snail and i will mail one (black and white) i have

hundreds, oh use back channel. if you please.

pitch

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 22:09:03 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         IDDHI <IDDHI@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Commodify Your Dissent

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

Sara, Thomas... this "bud's" for you:

=======================================

Capitalism is changing, obviously and drastically. From the moneyed pages of

the Wall Street Journal to TV commercials for airlines and photocopiers we

hear every day about the new order's globe-spanning, cyber-accumulating ways.

But our notion about what's wrong with American life and how the figures

responsible are to be confronted haven't changed much in thirty years. Call

it, for convenience, the "countercultural idea." It holds that the paramount

ailment of our society is conformity, a malady that has variously been

described as over-organization, bureaucracy, homogeneity, hierarchy,

logocentrism, technocracy, the Combine, the Apollonian. We all know what it is

and what it does. It transforms humanity into "organization man," into "the

man in the gray flannel suit." It is "Moloch whose mind is pure machinery,"

the "incomprehensible prison" that consumes "brains and imagination." It is

artifice, starched shirts, tailfins, carefully mowed lawns, and always,

always, the consciousness of impending nuclear destruction. It is a stiff,

militaristic order that seeks to suppress instinct, to forbid sex and

pleasure, to deny basic human impulses and individuality, to enforce through a

rigid uniformity a meaningless plastic consumerism.

 

The patron saints of the countercultural idea are, of course, the Beats, whose

frenzied style and merry alienation still maintain a powerful grip on the

American imagination. Even forty years after the publication of On the Road,

the works of Kerouac, Ginsberg, and Burroughs remain the sine qua non of

dissidence, the model for aspiring poets, rock stars, or indeed anyone who

feels vaguely artistic or alienated. That frenzied sensibility of pure

experience, life on the edge, immediate gratification, and total freedom from

moral restraint, which the Beats first propounded back in those heady days

when suddenly everyone could have their own TV and powerful V-8, has stuck

with us through all the intervening years and become something of a permanent

American style. Go to any poetry reading and you can see a string of junior

Kerouacs go through the routine, upsetting cultural hierarchies by pushing

themselves to the limit, straining for that gorgeous moment of original vice

when Allen Ginsberg first read "Howl" in 1955 and the patriarchs of our

fantasies recoiled in shock. The Gap may have since claimed Ginsberg and USA

Today may run feature stories about the brilliance of the beloved Kerouac, but

the rebel race continues today regardless, with ever-heightening shit-

references calculated to scare Jesse Helms, talk about sex and smack that is

supposed to bring the electricity of real life, and ever-more determined

defiance of the repressive rules and mores of the American 1950s--rules and

mores that by now we know only from movies.

 

But one hardly has to go to a poetry reading to see the countercultural idea

acted out. Its frenzied ecstasies have long since become an official aesthetic

of consumer society, a monotheme of mass as well as adversarial culture. Turn

on the TV and there it is instantly: the unending drama of consumer unbound

and in search of an ever-heightened good time, the inescapable rock `n' roll

soundtrack, dreadlocks and ponytails bounding into Taco Bells, a drunken,

swinging-camera epiphany of tennis shoes, outlaw soda pops, and mind-bending

dandruff shampoos. Corporate America, it turns out, no longer speaks in the

voice of oppressive order that it did when Ginsberg moaned in 1956 that Time

magazine was

 

always telling me about responsibility. Business-

men are serious. Movie producers are serious.

Everybody's serious but me.

Nobody wants you to think they're serious today, least of all Time Warner. On

the contrary: the Culture Trust is now our leader in the Ginsbergian search

for kicks upon kicks. Corporate America is not an oppressor but a sponsor of

fun, provider of lifestyle accoutrements, facilitator of carnival, our slang-

speaking partner in the quest for that ever-more apocalyptic orgasm. The

countercultural idea has become capitalist orthodoxy, its hunger for

transgression upon transgression now perfectly suited to an economic-cultural

regime that runs on ever-faster cyclings of the new; its taste for self-

fulfillment and its intolerance for the confines of tradition now permitting

vast latitude in consuming practices and lifestyle experimentation.

As countercultural rebellion becomes corporate ideology, even the beloved

Buddhism of the Beats wins a place on the executive bookshelf. In The Leader

as Martial Artist (1993), Arnold Mindell advises men of commerce in the ways

of the Tao, mastery of which he likens, of course, to surfing. For Mindell's

Zen businessman, as for the followers of Tom Peters, the world is a wildly

chaotic place of opportunity, navigable only to an enlightened "leader" who

can discern the "timespirits" at work behind the scenes. In terms Peters

himself might use were he a more more meditative sort of inspiration

professional, Mindell explains that "the wise facilitator" doesn't seek to

prevent the inevitable and random clashes between "conflicting field spirits,"

but to anticipate such bouts of disorder and profit thereby.

 

Contemporary corporate fantasy imagines a world of ceaseless, turbulent

change, of centers that ecstatically fail to hold, of joyous extinction for

the craven gray-flannel creature of the past. Businessmen today decorate the

walls of their offices not with portraits of President Eisenhower and emblems

of suburban order, but with images of extreme athletic daring, with sayings

about "diversity" and "empowerment" and "thinking outside the box." They

theorize their world not in the bar car of the commuter train, but in weepy

corporate retreats at which they beat their tom-toms and envision themselves

as part of the great avant-garde tradition of edge-livers, risk-takers, and

ass-kickers. Their world is a place not of sublimation and conformity, but of

"leadership" and bold talk about defying the herd. And there is nothing this

new enlightened species of businessman despises more than "rules" and

"reason." The prominent culture-warriors of the right may believe that the

counterculture was capitalism's undoing, but the antinomian businessmen know

better. "One of the t-shirt slogans of the sixties read, `Question

authority,'" the authors of Reengineering the Corporation write. "Process

owners might buy their reengineering team members the nineties version:

`Question assumptions.'"

The new businessman quite naturally gravitates to the slogans and sensibility

of the rebel sixties to express his understanding of the new Information

World. He is led in what one magazine calls "the business revolution" by the

office-park subversives it hails as "business activists," "change agents," and

"corporate radicals." He speaks to his comrades through commercials like the

one for "Warp," a type of IBM computer operating system, in which an electric

guitar soundtrack and psychedelic video effects surround hip executives with

earrings and hairdos who are visibly stunned by the product's gnarly 'tude

(It's a "totally cool way to run your computer," read the product's print

ads). He understands the world through Fast Company, a successful new magazine

whose editors take their inspiration from Hunter S. Thompson and whose stories

describe such things as a "dis-organization" that inhabits an "anti-office"

where "all vestiges of hierarchy have disappeared" or a computer scientist who

is also "a rabble rouser, an agent provocateur, a product of the 1960s who

never lost his activist fire or democratic values." He is what sociologists

Paul Leinberger and Bruce Tucker have called "The New Individualist," the new

and improved manager whose arty worldview and creative hip derive directly

from his formative sixties days. The one thing this new executive is

definitely not is Organization Man, the hyper-rational counter of beans,

attender of church, and wearer of stiff hats. In television commercials,

through which the new American businessman presents his visions and self-

understanding to the public, perpetual revolution and the gospel of rule-

breaking are the orthodoxy of the day. You only need to watch for a few

minutes before you see one of these slogans and understand the grip of

antinomianism over the corporate mind:

Sometimes You Gotta Break the Rules --Burger King

If You Don't Like the Rules, Change Them --WXRT-FM

The Rules Have Changed --Dodge

The Art of Changing --Swatch

There's no one way to do it. --Levi's

This is different. Different is good. --Arby's

Just Different From the Rest --Special Export beer

The Line Has Been Crossed: The Revolutionary New Supra --Toyota

Resist the Usual --the slogan of both Clash Clear Malt and Young & Rubicam

Innovate Don't Imitate --Hugo Boss

Chart Your Own Course --Navigator Cologne

It separates you from the crowd --Vision Cologne

In most, the commercial message is driven home with the vanguard iconography

of the rebel: screaming guitars, whirling cameras, and startled old timers

who, we predict, will become an increasingly indispensable prop as consumers

require ever-greater assurances that, Yes! You are a rebel! Just look at how

offended they are!

 

<end excerpt>

By THOMAS FRANK and MATT WEILAND

(C) 1997 The Baffler Literary Magazine, Inc. All rights reserved. ISBN:

0-393-31673-4

=================================

If anyone wants the entire text of this review, email me directly.

Maggie

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 21:45:02 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Organization: smiling small thoughts

Subject:      Journal Night Thoughts

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Journal Night Thoughts

by A.G.

NY  January 1961

 

In bed on my green purple pink

        yellow orange bolivian blanket,

the clock tick, my back against the wall

-- staring into black circled eyes magician

        man's bearded glance and story

the kitchen spun in a wheel of vertigo,

the eye in the center of the moving

                mandala -- the

                eye in the hand

                the eye in the asshole

                serpent eating or

                        vomiting its tail

-- the blank air a solid wall revolving

        around my retina --

The wheel of jewels and fire i saw moving

                vaster than my head in Peru

        Band circling in band and a black

                hole of Calcutta thru which

                        I stared at my Atman

                                without a body --

The Giotto window on Boston giving

                to a scene in Bibled Palestine

                                A golden star

                and the flight to Egypt

                                in an instant now

Come true again -- the Kabbala sign

                in the vomit on the floor --

>From a window on Riverside Drive,

        one boat moving slowly

        up the flowing river, small autos

        crawling on Hudson Thruway

                a plash of white snow on

                        the Palisades

        and a small white park etched

        by bare thin branches

        with black birds aflutter in the

                        frosty underbrush

Riverside Drive, as in Brueghel

        a girl in red coat

                        -- a footprint, a lone

                                passerby

        on sidewalk under apartment wall --

and a blimp from the war floating in the air

        over the edge of the city --

Wagner's last echoes, and Baudelaire

        inscribing his oceanic page

                        of confessions

Ah love is so sweet in the Springtime

                        Amor Vincit Omnia

Eliot's voice clanging over the sky

                on upper Broadway

"Only thru Time is Time conquered"

I am the answer : I will swallow my

        vomit and be naked --

A heavy rain, the plick of a raindrop

                shattered on the fire escape rail

                        at the level of my eye --

This woman is a serpent goddess accepting

        the proposition of a bunch of flowers

        found in the Christmas snow

                on Mad.Ave. dusk uptown --

We'll rush around in a redcross psychic

                ambulance past the Museum of

                        Natural History

        delivering Anxiety mushrooms to the dancing

                red gummed skeletons

                        their lifted legs are crossed

                                they wear iron crowns

The cat vomited his canned food with a

        mix of inch-long worms

                that arched up over the

                                                dread plop --

I threw it in the garbage bag aghast --

cockroach crawls up the bath tub Yosemite wall,

rust in the hot water faucet, a sweet smell

                in the mouldy chicken soup,

        and little black beings in the old bag of flour

                on the pantry shelf last week

Natchez, he was saying with his head one side

        of the center of the wheel

                                of Vertigo --

        burned babies in the blaze of a fiery house

                sending them back to the Sun --

        They drank a black elixir, and threw it up

                To have the serpent intertwined

                        in their eyeballs --

        One man was born with genitals all over

                his body -- there were 15,000,000

                Indians in North America then --

                        The mushroom image in the Spiro Mound

        The battle with the two-headed

                caterpillar big as a house

                        with waving lobster claws --

Here is the Homunculus wavering in the brain,

        the aggregate of ignorant patterns

                                looking like Denny Dimwit

        The genitals are larger than the head --

                huge thumbs, and the crab image

                        of the back of the mouth --

'Twas a sunflower-monkey on Neptune

                I imagined over the radio --

Somebody's got to make a break and contact

                Khruschev in the Noosphere --

        because I took a sick crap near a skull

                with long red hair in a coastal desert

                        gravepit by the Peruvian Pacific --

        across the road, new green fields and hut trees

and now I'm paranoiac every day about the cops

                                                (& god & universe)

        as if it were all being tape recorded from my

                        skull to project the Kali Yuga --

He saw electric wires on the floor -- He saw

                        the channel that heard yr mind

                                thru the music --

I saw the flower, slowly awakening its petals --

My face in the hot dog stand mirror

                harried to be here again

        to see myself alive on Broadway afraid I'm

                in a forgotten movie where I die

                        not knowing my name --

 

The old man came out of his room Carpet

                        slippers, getting bald

with half a sheaf of indecipherable arrangements

                        of words in singsong

                "rain in heart by heat a fool be clang"

                        Cerebral stroke stiff hand

        His tongue stopped forever

                        but his mind went on

                                in what universe?

I dreamt I had to destroy the human

        universe to be Messiah --

My toes wiggle on the bed, the breast has

                eyes and mouth,

        the belly eye & dumb lips and the loins

                        a blind one waiting --

a big fart gave the void a smelly minute --

The color of the wind?  It could be the same

        the color of the water --

Where does rain come from?  Nice to look up

                                at the stars in Northport --

'Er something. Uh-huh.

I could see the hairs at the end of his nose.

We were involved in a great tragedy together --

I walked alone, in the street, by myself

                        with no God to turn to

                But what I Am --

                        who can create baby universes

                        in the mouth of the void --

        Spurt them out of my mind forever

        to fill the Unimaginable with its

                                        separate being --

So I left behind a message to the Consciousness

                                before I disappeared --

        I wrote it on a stone & left it in Oklahoma

                                in that Indian mound,

        drew a picture of a serpent crossing in

                and out of its folds like a scaly

                swastika -- a green dragon

                        with ancient fangs

Speak up and tell yr secret, is it a

                living animal out there your

                        afraid of still -- ?

        And my mother's skull not yet white

                in the darkness, a glimpse of

                        that forgotten creature agape

                        at dirty nothing -- GO

                                        BACK !

I come in the ass of my beloved, I lay back

        with my cock in the air to be kissed --

I prostrate my sphincter with my eyes in

        the pillow, my legs are thrown up

                                over your shoulder,

I feel your buttocks with my hand

                a cock throbs I lay still my

                        mouth in my ass --

I kiss the hidden mouth, I have a third eye

I paint the pupils on my palm, and an

                eyelash that winks --

 

************

 

Marginal Poem - Journal Night Thoughts

by A.G.

Sept. 28, 1964

 

Lower East Side

2 Street

High

*

W/Harry Smith

*

Optical Phenomena

*

Yage

in

Pucallpa

*

Remembering

Leary's Bedroom

Harvard

*

Jack Hallucinating

*

Out Robt.

Lowell's Window

*

Unsteadily

Walking

in

Manhattan

Near Where

Poe Wrote

The

Raven

*

Visiting

Dorothy Norman

*

Psylocibin Taxi

*

The Citipati

(Tibetan Bones)

*

Housecat

in the

Slums

*

Smith's

Anthropological

Gossip

*

Penfield's

Homunculus

*

Ditty

Taped at Jack's

*

Historic

Paranoia

From

Boston

To

Lima

*

Back in

Mexico City

*

A Retired

Schoolteacher

In

Newark:

Visit To

Friend of the

Family

*

LSD Roars

*

Gaga &

Dialogue

W/ Lafcadio

*

N20 at the

Dentist

*

Mescaline Mouth

Ejaculations

Of Me

*

Poesy

*

Death

Concsciousness

*

Kaddish

Completed

"You're not done

with your moether

yet."

Sd/Elise C.

*

Come To

This

End.

 

**************************************************

typed for discussion purposes only by dbr

 

This second poem in Planet News is quite an abrupt shift from "Who will

take over the Universe?"  It is political only in the sense that the

personal is the political.  It is intraspection on intraspection

entwisted cyclonically like a complete unknown visionary known to all

spaketh these words.

 

dbr

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 23:19:55 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: a place for aspiring writers?

In-Reply-To:  <c29cf6cf.34cbc529@aol.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

In high school, quite of few of my friends and I put out homemade little

magazines or chapbooks. We'd put in some cool graphics thanks to our

computer, run em off and give them out, underground, since they werent

really allowed in our school. You had to know someone to get one. It was

fun while it lasted.

~Nancy

 

On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, IDDHI wrote:

 

> Since so many people on this listserv write, and there have been a few

> requests for places to publish, I thought I'd pass this link along:

> http://www.worldwidemagazines.com/literary2.html

>

> Apparently a number of the magazines listed here encourage unpublished writers

> and poets, and are actively seeking submissions all the time.

>

> Few presses were available for avant garde and non-traditional stuff like Beat

> writers wrote in the Fifties. One thing I always really liked about them was

> their penchant for making little chapbooks, mimeographs of their works (who

> remembers mimeos?) Seems like Brautigan was especially big on that. I've seen

> people in recent days who've done the same thing, at PIP or Kinko's, then

> stood on street corners or found shelf space in record stores, where they gave

> their work away, partly to share beauty, and partly just to be read.

>

> I'd love to experience something as earth-shattering as the reading at the Six

> Gallery, but where are the poets? Surely we have enough to rage against today

> as the Beat Generation did.

>

> By the way, I'm not a poet, but I like it, as I've stated before in posts.

> Seems to me, though, that most readings around here happen at Barnes&Noble or

> something and are merchandising tie-ins to new books.

>

> Publish or perish, or, failing that, organize a reading, and invite me!

>

> Incognito in L.A.,

> Maggie

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 20:41:20 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: It's beat, it's love, Davey Isn't

 

i second that, Maggie.  really Sara & Thomas,  why do you feel it necessary

to parade your personal correspondence in front of 250 people?  after all

the complaints about what's appropos and what's not - this surely should be

obvious.  and no i'm not humorless or opposed to love, quite the opposite -

but i don't think that i or anyone else on the list got on it  to read "As

Sara's & Thomas' World Turns".

 

ciao, sherri

-----Original Message-----

From: IDDHI <IDDHI@AOL.COM>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Sunday, January 25, 1998 6:28 PM

Subject: Re: It's beat, it's love, Davey Isn't

 

 

>In a message dated 25-Jan-98 6:02:25 PM Pacific Standard Time,

>thomas.van.moortel@skynet.be writes:

>

><< Have a fucking sense of humor. >>

>

>I have a great sense of humor. I just don't happen to see what's humorous

(if

>that's your intention) about the personal correspondence between two people

>that should be done by back channel.

>

>Retitle your posts to read something like "personal bullshit sent to waste

>listserv space," and I'll be able to delete them without reading them and

will

>have no comment whatsoever.

>

>MD

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 20:41:40 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: crap and humor

 

Here!  Here!  patty

-----Original Message-----

From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Sunday, January 25, 1998 7:25 PM

Subject: crap and humor

 

 

>so if i think posts are drivel and not very interesting i don't have a

>sense of humor, gee, i just thought they were boring posts,  i didn't

>get there was some super secret humor to them. i sure didn't follow

>that, was it by chopping up the posts and crappy remarks until something

>of intelligence emerges.  This most be all my fault, or i aren't beat

>enouf. i should of realized i  wanted to hear about oj, clinton, di, or

>beef suits  it snot crap, it hot freedom of speech issues, unavailable

>to us except on such escoteric shows such as hard copy. well,  to make

>this a legel eagle post, if anyone wants an rivercity reunion program,

>shoot me your snail and i will mail one (black and white) i have

>hundreds, oh use back channel. if you please.

>pitch

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:46:33 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: crap and humor/beat not beat

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

yo, homegirl, go.

i was beginning to feel brow BEATen.

 

Patricia Elliott wrote:

 

> so if i think posts are drivel and not very interesting i don't have a

> sense of humor, gee, i just thought they were boring posts,  i didn't

> get there was some super secret humor to them. i sure didn't follow

> that, was it by chopping up the posts and crappy remarks until something

> of intelligence emerges.  This most be all my fault, or i aren't beat

> enouf. i should of realized i  wanted to hear about oj, clinton, di, or

> beef suits  it snot crap, it hot freedom of speech issues, unavailable

> to us except on such escoteric shows such as hard copy. well,  to make

> this a legel eagle post, if anyone wants an rivercity reunion program,

> shoot me your snail and i will mail one (black and white) i have

> hundreds, oh use back channel. if you please.

> pitch

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:56:13 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sara Feustle <sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>

Subject:      "Sturm und Drang" and Beat

In-Reply-To:  <c68b5ed2.34cbfe52@aol.com>

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Well, IDDHI, as Goethe once said, "Leck mich am Arsch!"

 

But seriously, has anyone ever read any of the German Sturm und Drang

literature? Like _Die Leiden des Jungen Werthers_ (or in English _The

Sorrows of Young Werther_)? That book was Beat 200 years before Beat. It

is as beautiful as On the Road, as ugly and as gorgeous as Howl. Has

anyone else read any Sturm und Drang? What's your take on it?

                        --Sara

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:28:32 -0600

Reply-To:     cawilkie@comic.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>

Subject:      re; it's beat, it's love, davey isn't

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

>

> Subject:

>         Re: It's beat, it's love, Davey Isn't

>   Date:

>         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 19:56:04 EST

>   From:

>         IDDHI <IDDHI@AOL.COM>

>

>

> In a message dated 25-Jan-98 4:44:16 PM Pacific Standard Time,

> thomas.van.moortel@skynet.be writes:

>

> <<  I LOVE SARA FEUSTLE !

>

>                                                  --Thomas >>

>

> Sara, Thomas... get a room, willya?

 

 

 

 

i second that emotion!!!!!!!!

 

cathy

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:04:09 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Organization: smiling small thoughts

Subject:      Re: re; it's beat, it's love, davey isn't

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Cathy Wilkie wrote:

>

> >

> > Subject:

> >         Re: It's beat, it's love, Davey Isn't

> >   Date:

> >         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 19:56:04 EST

> >   From:

> >         IDDHI <IDDHI@AOL.COM>

> >

> >

> > In a message dated 25-Jan-98 4:44:16 PM Pacific Standard Time,

> > thomas.van.moortel@skynet.be writes:

> >

> > <<  I LOVE SARA FEUSTLE !

> >

> >                                                  --Thomas >>

> >

> > Sara, Thomas... get a room, willya?

>

> i second that emotion!!!!!!!!

>

> cathy

 

I thought the whole exchange was sorta cute ya know.  I can see if the

saga became a daily thing it would get old but unless I missed something

during my hospitalization (entirely possible) these interactions aren't

quite to the level of soap opera - daily monotonous mesmerization - yet.

 

dbr

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 00:03:41 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Journal Night Thoughts

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> David Bruce Rhaesa wrote:

>

> This second poem in Planet News is quite an abrupt shift from "Who will

> take over the Universe?"  It is political only in the sense that the

> personal is the political.  It is intraspection on intraspection

> entwisted cyclonically like a complete unknown visionary known to all

> spaketh these words.

 

There's so much in this poem that it hard to find a beginning topic for

discussion.  Agreed that the poem moves to the personal and the

visionary, a cosmic universe as opposed to a political one  Things that

stand out to me are:  that it begins and ends in bed--I would almost say

that in the love of the human body at the end, the poet finds the

redemption that eludes him in the visions in the poem.  Many of the

images are probably terrifying, serpents, man with genitals larger than

his head, electrical wires in the brain, and there's the fear of death,

"to see myself alive on Broadway afraid I'm

in a forgotten movie where I die

not knowing my name"

 

"is it a living animal out there you're afraid of still

And my mother's skull not yet white in the darkness"

 

There are also a lot of mystic and psychological images in between, many

entangled in serpents and vomit:

 

"the eye in the center of the moving mandala--the

eye in the hand the eye in the asshole

serpent eating or vomiting its tail"

 

"the Kabbala sign in the vomit on the floor"

 

"Eliot's voice clanging over the sky on upper Broadway

'Only thru time is time conquered'

I am the answer: I will swallow my vomit and be naked"

 

"This woman is a serpent goddess accepting

the propitiation of a bunch of flowers

found in the Christmas snow"

 

"The cat vomited his canned food with a

mix of inch-long worms

that arched up over the dread plop"

 

"They drank a black elixir, and threw it up

to have the serpent intwined in their eyeballs"

 

In the midst of all the images of evil and filth, we also have the poet,

the artist, creating his own salvation in the act of writing the poem:

 

"I walked alone, in the street, by myself

with no God to turn to

But what I Am--

who can create baby universes

in the mouth of the void--

spurt them out of my mind forever

to fill the Unimaginable with its

separate being--

So I left behind a message to the Consciousness

before I disappeared--

I wrote it on a stone & left it in Oklahoma

in the Indian mound..."

 

In this poem are many of the images that make AG's poetry visionary,

prophetic:

 

"As if it were all being tape recorded from my skull

to project the Kali Yuga" [the last age in the Hindu cycle before "cosmic

apocalyptic destruction]

 

So what does the poet do in the midst of a horrific,

apocalyptic vision--he writes the poem; he grounds himself in the

experience of love with another that comforts him.

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:47:06 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      scope

 

Once again, Beat-l is not a chat room.  Messages about the superbowl and

personal relationships have no place on this list.   I have to ask

everyone to respect the scope of the list as defined in the original

welcome message.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:13:57 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Organization: smiling small thoughts

Subject:      Re: scope

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Bill Gargan wrote:

>

> Once again, Beat-l is not a chat room.  Messages about the superbowl and

> personal relationships have no place on this list.   I have to ask

> everyone to respect the scope of the list as defined in the original

> welcome message.

 

This is a good point.  And I completely forgot that we do have access to

a chat room for times when some of us are drawn to compulsively chat.

 

Paul, my only problem is that I lost the information on KeroChat.  Could

you re-post it at your convenience.  Perhaps if many of us who tend to

get chatty would simply go to the chat room more often - it will be

easier to maintain the "scope" within the parameters suggested by Bill

the owner.

 

I'm particularly guilty yesterday but am not dwelling on it.  I confess

and I typed that long ass Ginsberg poem for discussion onto the list to

make up for my crimes and misdemeanors.  Maybe others who have been

excessively chatty could also become active in participating on a few

things within the clear scope of the List.

 

just a couple thoughts from KS,

david

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:21:33 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Literary Magazines and Ginsberg Poem

Content-Type: text/plain

 

Like the idiot I am, I deleted a whole bunch of messages I didn't want

to.. Could someone repost the web address of that site about literary

magazines which accept stuff from unpublished/unknown poet/authors?

and that poem (was it david who posted it originally?) of ginsberg's

written in 1961??

 

I'd appreciate it.

 

-Greg

 

 

 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

* Ginsberg etc.                               *

* http://members.tripod.com/~Sprayberry       *

* Updated regularly, extensive poems, images  *

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

 

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:52:21 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Maggie Dharma <IDDHI@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Literary Magazines, reposted

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

boy, i hope this doesn't duplicate or triplicate or grow out of control. and i

hope it's useful information for a bunch of you

 

Here it is again: since so many people on this listserv write, and there have

been a few requests for places to publish, I thought I'd pass this link along:

http://www.worldwidemagazines.com/literary2.html

 

Apparently a number of the magazines listed here encourage unpublished writers

and poets, and are actively seeking submissions all the time.

 

Few presses were available for avant garde and non-traditional stuff like Beat

writers wrote in the Fifties. One thing I always really liked about them was

their penchant for making little chapbooks, mimeographs of their works (who

remembers mimeos?) Seems like Brautigan was especially big on that. I've seen

people in recent days who've done the same thing, at PIP or Kinko's, then

stood on street corners or found shelf space in record stores, where they gave

their work away, partly to share beauty, and partly just to be read.

 

I'd love to experience something as earth-shattering as the reading at the Six

Gallery, but where are the poets? Surely we have enough to rage against today

as the Beat Generation did.

 

By the way, I'm not a poet, but I like it, as I've stated before in posts.

Seems to me, though, that most readings around here happen at Barnes&Noble or

something and are merchandising tie-ins to new books.

 

Publish or perish, or, failing that, organize a reading, and invite me!

 

Incognito in L.A.,

Maggie

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:07:55 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Jack Kerouac and Gian Pieretti during 1966.

In-Reply-To:  <34CA1172.125A@eunet.yu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_885834475==_"

 

--=====================_885834475==_

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

amici,

 

--- Come una pietra che rotola: la sindrome Dylan

    Like a rolling stone: Dylan syndrome

article written in italian by Luciano Ceri e Ernesto De Pascale---

[my version of the excerpt]

 

Gian Pieretti appare

Gian Pieretti was in musical magazine

sui giornali musicali

during (circa) mid 60s'

dell' epoca (1966)

sue foto in compagnia

photographed to enjoy Kerouac's company

di Jack Kerouac, in

quel periodo in Italia

Jack Kerouac was in Italy to promote

per la promozione di

"Big Sur" appena tradotto;

the book "Big Sur" just translated in italian

lo accompagna infatti in

una serie di incontri con

Gian Pieretti took Jack Kerouac in several meetings

la stampa e con il

with the press and in front of people

pubblico che Jack Kerouac

ebbe a Milano, Roma e

in Milan, Rome and Naples

Napoli, esibendosi con

qualche canzone mentre

Gian Pieretti performed some songs

Kerouac si rifornisce

while Kerouac turned to drink

abbondatemente di birre,

a lot of beer

essendogli stati proibiti

i superalcolici. Niente

because of the high alcohol drinks prevented.

male come trovata

promozionale dell'ufficio

This advertising event was scheduled

stampa della Mondadori,

by Mondadori publisher of "Big Sur"

anche se questo accredita

a Gian Pieretti, visto che

Gian Pieretti was recognized as a true italian beat

accanto a lui c'e' uno

because the closeness to a father of the beat generation

dei capostipiti della beat

generation letteraria, una

sorta di patente di autenticita'

beat francamente un po' artefatta,

con buona pace di Kerouac che

in peace and quiet while Keroauc was always to sober border.

appare perennemente ai limiti

della sobrieta'.

---

 

Gian Pieretti was a singer a lot famous in the Sixties

in Italy and this friendship with Jack Kerouac gave him

the credit to be the first italian beat, but i think,

the first italian beat was a woman exactly Carmen Villani.

 

saluti a tutti,

Rinaldo.

-------

 

--=====================_885834475==_

Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="pieretjk.jpg";

 x-mac-type="4A504547"; x-mac-creator="4A565752"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pieretjk.jpg"

 

/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEBLAEsAAD/2wBDABALDA4MChAODQ4SERATGCgaGBYWGDEjJR0oOjM9PDkz

ODdASFxOQERXRTc4UG1RV19iZ2hnPk1xeXBkeFxlZ2P/2wBDARESEhgVGC8aGi9jQjhCY2NjY2Nj

Y2NjY2NjY2NjY2NjY2NjY2NjY2NjY2NjY2NjY2NjY2NjY2NjY2NjY2NjY2P/wAARCAEuAS4DASIA

AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA

AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3

ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm

p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA

AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx

BhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYkNOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElK

U1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOEhYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3

uLm6wsPExcbHyMnK0tPU1dbX2Nna4uPk5ebn6Onq8vP09fb3+Pn6/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwD0Ciik

JxQAtFFNLgNtoAdRSZ9qikuFQ4xkYz1xQBNRTEcOMinUALRSZooAWiikoAWikpaACiiigAooooAK

KKKACims6qMswA9zSLJGxIV1JHYGgB9FFFABRSUtABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFRSy+X

jpzQAhlC8lgAOue1QTXSxyYLHJHTPSuNa/nc8yN14JOO9Vpryd5WO9jwM5oA9BaUleMc8elVJLlh

LxyCfw7/AOf8muSGoTiPBcDI496rvqV0soxIQc9aAO7Sck/eznuB/n/P4Vn312TMQu3KjuMH9f8A

P41zS6zcDeN5wRj0z9apXOrXRkBLk8cZ6/40Ad5Z3QZFH3uMnnpVtplAVsjnke/FcBBrF1sjTI2K

DtBGcHHv/Lp+FW21uaQOGYZPQnIA5/z/AD60AdqZQp5IycYB703z0UhWIG44HfnP+f8AIri01htw

UZAAH1zz/j/nNJJqjSRquM4HTt25/wA/0oA7L7bHnAYZB/vc4xn/AD+dSLOrHIBx06Y71wn2/Dxl

twwMnnPcVcstdSFgXDsMfLnH5/5/+vQB2tMaZFBJZePeuYufFQeMiGNkYYycgismTVHMwZkT73QH

rzQB3omQ8bsHjIPGM07euCc8VxdvqzRqT5atkqcEA9Me/wDn9asDxG6/N5I6Yx0weMd6AOsLKOpH

51Dc3tvarumlC+3euXufFcnl7YIV3sOrcgVhz6hPcTM8xJdv7w6f54oA7C48RRo22GLcemWb+n+f

zrDn1y9uC2ZwFU4GOAf8/wBayGllkJ4OD0KjPf8Az+NL5bhMsCMdPf8Az/SgCZrubvMc+g7Gmm5n

WLJlwCc4B6f5/pUHzBAOmDx+lPckQYDA9+/+f8/SgDUtPEt5bSIrsJIh/DgenrW/aeJrO4dUlDQs

xwCSCPzrh4nxIrHBI9mNOWdgWzghge31/wA//WoA9PVldQysGU8gg5Bp1cNomutp52ygvCx5XPI9

+a6QeIdN4zMVz6oaANWisz+39M3AfaRz32n/AAp41rTz/wAvAH/AT/hQBoUVnjWtPY8XIP8AwE/4

U/8AtawAz9oXn0BNAF2iqSatYu21blc4zzxQdVsP+flOlAF2iqy39o67luYiP96npcwSECOaNifR

gaAJqKKKACqOpDIjGM9evPp2q7WRr7bVhIbHJ/pQByBYOxyePT2xULAAtlc54/z+dOIUjkAn0/L/

AD/+umSht2Onrx/n/PFAE0xXykG33yf8+1VZWUTA4561JKd64JxjsT0qKQETk5wT6nHrQBIjjDjj

PbH4/wCNVrjaWUA8+5qZcY6DFVZ8+Z/ifegC1AANr8BR6f56/wCelTNGqKozwxyMZ44/+v8A5NVL

c5iAGd3FWZAGMe1cblHUhew9+P8AJ70AKIY/OYFicY7fTH+f/wBdIqIY9wbp1H5UIPnz3znGPemB

vlx37DP+f8/SgB5ji4O8fl04FNTGCM9Dycc9qZ/GOmPTP0ob733QRnjjH+f/AK1AEoEYQckjt7Un

yByWHGc9f1pjDGCOWH6/jSjcpyTkY9aAHg4UAHA+n4f40yRsRA5zzSqPvAN+GajfL9X5HTBoAiZ8

FecD2pPMyfm69Ac07jPLcY+uajwFOF/CgCxHcbSdp7YwfpipluGKkEkk981UXPlhsYDE8Zq1aKZc

DfhRwSxxQA/lk2jlifX3FKVwDHgFTglh+P8ASpLq4hjQRwszlT94dDz1Gf8APNU0cv8AeLfh3HrQ

ApDSEr8o4wfwqFtwGTge+akB2luc/Uc1GS4cgewPFABnGAcHPNTsCdu5lAx16f54quPTHQdfSngl

sA4JPsBQBZjifcwDLkDn/P5UBZQGYH7p/XnH9abG5BkbLEc8AD+X5UnmMc8989OvWgB8qOv8Qx65

/wA9qaFlOOenp+FI80nGTkjjpx6fyppnYDOeS35/54oAkKSiTvu/Pnj+tRr5hHHQH1pouXLZJPXk

ke9KsrEDuB1yKAFBfqCccjPrmpluJwoYbiCTzk4FQ+dJ5eDjjqfXIApftDAAnPHtmgC2bi6UbVdz

n0z6/wCIpzXN2cDdLyAOvamLelCmAoIzzjGOTj+dI16xAyi5GO3OM0ASSXd4UGZZiox1Y++MflWd

fXU7lN0jHGcZJNX3vcIDtwTjHPp/n8azdQnLsuAAuTgZ+lAF4buARjn6VG7MJcgDPGcVPjcwHHp9

ary5D9QOR1GO1AEjLtAZQcY57VDLzOPl5AqWQ4Xn5T+WKikYecTjnHTrQAqglSQRn35qpMT5nOOP

0q4oBwBn8+M5qpKv7wcYGO34/wCf8igCSH/VKfx5qYktt46ccfhUMQBhXJIycHj6f5/yam5DJj5T

jnI96AEDMM5AAx/hSg7T82cbfTt/n/Cmj5snO4Ec470ccdOlACDk9B16gUEZkzj5eoAPPWhWAG3v

06+//wBalAO0AcZ44agBw6E/xZ/pT1xjIcn1468/r/n0pibRk8cceoIp4OfTHTJ/zzQAqx5VnQ8L

jPP3hntVZ+WJwMjtU4YMpy3J6nPvUB5Qd8dqAEKcpu5B/i600RZdj0HpmpWO4jkDp9Og61Zsrf7R

c7F3KxIAwO+QKAIY7OaSFmijdwv38DoO547VE8bqvTOByD9a9MsLOKxtVhiA46kDGTVTUNBs73Lb

PJk/vIB+ooA87+YMeP19qAxGCBk9xWtqmjT2NyI8eYpOVIGBj61SFu6jLcDpnpQBWAK/fI/nSMeQ

CRipiDkZGAT0z1qLgJnbgA55oAQg4ORuFOClQBj9etKRuUZySOv0qeOzaQqyoWxk9c9s0AJGUbcT

jnJHB/z/APqqIDHUEZ/lVq4h8icgqysOOeCD05qoE+YjBY57df8A69ABjPT657Y/zigKp5APXkUA

HbnsOeOlPxuJIIAPQcnbQBGRjGQQTjApO/5c9xTyuMEdOM5+tNXkkk4AoAd1wMr1xn6+tLt+XOA2

emBQnKHgHt0qxCAF2lSCeCR/n3oAYsMjMo6E8ZPFSG3dcFiOT6Y/D/PrVuT5GRYx97up9z6/5znt

ULo20gHJzwD269KAEECoCXPUDg/T/P0qlfxBSgg5654zUskh+9gBuMH04qneltqbiCO2c0AaobCg

H9Rn+f4fWoJ1/eYweeQev+f8mrDIqkgN379qrujGRQMc8AigBHG0tjkDuaiPMv17jmrEikbyePw6

9Krsck4zkHPU0ATIxCgnnHHI61Tnx5vJPp61djK/xA8HqBVacEykls4P+FACwYFuNuN2f6j/AD/+

up2ADxYxkgc8/wCfyqGFF8pehGfxqwAcx5GAB1x9P8/nQBEE9ufQD2FIVwAeAe9SDndwOQOccdv8

/wD1qARn5fU8GgCJMq4ycDPUU4sSADyOvr60ow6/MxBB4H500lSo557gf5+lADi25i2TkZ5brn/9

ff8AGkCblJAyBwcHpzTyih+fzz1/zihEyp2jOOpx0PP5UAIdvlrtIzj86iAIT8uK6PTPDRvLRJ5Z

ggYHaNu49e/NUNQ0a7snKFQVx8rgfKw+v+PvQBmMg+XkZOK2vDkY+2RHGcMPbuPX/PbrisYo/mDC

4PpWxo/nw3G5YsliCA2SM5H+f/r0AdzRSKSVBIIJHQ9qWgBrqrqVdQynggis2+0aG4iUQBYmU9fX

p3/CtSigDktS0gW4VmYE46Agf57/AOTXPPCTlS3BPpgD8K9D1GEz2+0LuOQcYH9a52605ogS0e4F

uu3b27/p/nmgDDtLP7RIis4wx6d/89P8iu60uygt7VAkYDY+9jB6fp/k96w9Nsv9KBYRquM9A2f/

ANea3nvIrbEbE7jxwuMfnQBi+LrdcRzAAHYVz9P/ANdcmMlPujJPXNdX4qnW4t4REN+Mk/L07Vyp

UkHgEZ5xmgBoU5A59KeR0zyf5UpBLdN36YpSuOo5z+RoAZsxIADz0/z/AJ9qSOPdG2eBnjAzU8eG

n+YknI4H1568/wCc0s0ixw7AzAEjdx06f5//AF0ARxlBDwCcfn2prSKeRj2496iVuhwB+H0p21iQ

cfiaAJRI7bQQcdgaespPDk8gkZPbmmAiMBAckY70wtubGOe3/wCqgCVBuKlRk989agv0VdhOFJz7

VYjl8qMAZBzySetULx1IQMM4z3+lAGwxAxgAAdaguSxlGXOAOPm6f5/zzT2GGAwwB5x6VDOw8wDA

B6c9qAHSkAnGF57ehqE580gjPbg1LIAR8pwTx/nFQyD99nOf0FAE0RC4Ygkg561WuCN43YBx6VZQ

8t9fSqlwwMmeOnQdv8/40ASQAGAYIHPbt0qyAQyBWY5GPpnj+n+etQW/MC5HBIGfy/z+FWWVlkQq

cHb7HPA/z/8AWxQBExY7m3fUn86a3LcfLgY6nB5x/wDWqaTcrld27pg4wT71G4xkY5wP8/T/ABoA

jynlk9CfX/PtQAMZyBznPfvSj5lOUBA5XLf59qeYyR8iMOfXpQAbAWO4/KOcj8aVA2Dg7lXOealS

1ldyijj259c/56/jTjaShGYqcDqSPr/n/JoA1rG4v5HgFtJJkDaATxgZHQ8djW5Obi5025S5t9hV

Mghs7sc/0FZOkeZHpsk5YfIpCnbgjnjn/P5UWYvL28ZoZG+QEbmOMDOPzxz9aAMaziZr2ONY2yWH

Gc/56967m0sobSJVjRQwAycd8YrC0G18+6+0CPCRnnPc/wCPQ/ia6agAooooAKQ8DNFBoAh+0b5G

jTA29TnODx2/Gq1zAwjZpJdxLDAHyg54/wA/5NWo1h81zGAHB+bHrTm8tyyNgkdRQBk7J2Akjtjx

0AYcjg/j0qou+O4VrpJowvORzjnOf1H51uXM1vBtEpwW5AGc/Wsy6lUwsIWzk8L5nzZ9cf4+poAw

NZuFlu2VI9igbcY5PUf5/wD1Vlg5jK44J6/5/wA8VduEIvHwikpzj0+n8qrNEzFpMqTngjkjr2oA

Q/IAeMqOpFOZlAIPUcf5/P8AzxTpIhgEYP8AL/P+elQhNzhflX6jp0oAVcRRltxbjg46j/I/yarM

CzHnLH1qzcMCuxW3c8k/z/GoIyIw0hYq4OF9u/H5UATJH5MRZ2G4cYwMio3l42qMioo2DZYgAEce

1TKoKgkktn0oAYzHGDxxz708YViT94GicpuGDgd8VEQVLe/b3oAkRsnkkMeKqXgwsZAHOTkmrUbY

YHOM8dcYqtfkJ5Z4YEfX0oA1SMAndx61BKdz9Qc/4VMScAgDAPpUMoYvhsrnpkUALKAVHJyRn6VF

tHmggEjrg9e9TzLsBwxGPTn+VR5PnZPI6cUASRDJOOSO2O1VZlZpTt7DtV2L5SAeVJPNVpv9c2SB

gUAPt1HkplcjPPTPbj/PqParRiDSR5BAA6g+3+R9aSxhadIo4xuYkAAHH+f8/h1tnoMEcY+0/vXx

06AcAf0oA5WO3aQBYVaR+wC5J9+P8/zrTt/Dt7LLukKxKOCWOSe3AH+f5V1kUUcK7Yo1QeijFPoA

xbfw3aRJiVnkPfsP8/j/AEq7HpNhEwZLZMj1yf51dooAaqqihVUKAMAAYpabLKkMbSSMFRRkk1lP

r0RIWGJyzD5QR1PYYHvQBqmJNpUKoBOSMdfWkigjhLGNAu7k470xZvLjiNxhHkIUL7ntU1ACJGsa

7UUKvoKSUuI2MYBfHGfWn0UAcpd6rfiQozPEQeRjB/z1qhLqt75gLTygA88kfyrs7u2juYWWRAxx

x6iuFu4Zorlh5DDacYxxQBbTXb35sSMwHcjjv+VLbavds4ywJPTI5/P9Kx1UlyRx6dKt2dnJM6hC

WLcBTz1/+tQBuW2tSCCbA3YY43c8fXPvVJ9ce3jGwnef4hjj/P8AX2rXutNWy0SZYwHkxuZvyzj/

AD/hXHXBYvyo3LxgUAac2rfaJC7MTjkKev8Ant+tRf2i2/AZsd8Hr3qiG2yEiPB9OtEStKCQh6+n

AoAsTMs07n5s44G3jPT/AD+XvTCo8vIBODk59f8AP+eKcdoY/MRxjrj/AD/ntQ4Hkna4ycDHr1/+

t/nFAD2jBwBwp7kY/wA/4flVZ4/Lc4Jx06jirOFyp3gELnJ/P/P+NEoU3AjLLgEDI6D6UAUnaQS5

Py7uCOmRx/n61Acltp6dR6Vo38Sgs6DAAwAfy/pVADJzjgHGKAGqCAp6Drn8KlDP5YBHHv8A59qj

I2cLj/GkI5AOc/SgCR2DEZIyPSm53c/lnj1pjHL5ycjuTQWLMV7nvQA9eMYGPpVW+IBXjcDnuanX

dlevXGfaq94M7CcHOaANtmcHBJAPQVBIf3ylsAHg8Y71fEYBII5B9f161HNCDOA/sPTH+f8APagC

uY2OWCngcnr+tQMMDsR9f8/5/CtCaJMsxJ981VWLIyB1OcA9P84oAlgU74wOpHamw2E99eNFbxFs

gZPYD1/z9K0LS3M91FGM5Ygev+f/AK1ddZ2sVhbLDEoCqMs3qfWgCpo+jQ6dErNiS4xguOg+n+P/

AOqtNmCjLEAepqq12ZQyWgEkg4OT8q/U1EdNaZt91cO59E+UfSgCxFewTTNFG+5lAJx71YqG3tYb

YMIYwu7qR3pt3eQ2i5kbk9F7nt/WgCc8DJpvmJnG8Z9M1zV5rlxI+1CI0PHH+P4VDoeoMl6vmkFX

4LemcGgDdvon1KJoIn2RD7z9cn0FR6VpC2oEs2GlH3f9n/P9K1aQkKCSQAOSTQByvia73XghKtiE

ZGOcnAJ/z+NO0e9uJIpHmllYhcDL+47H6/h+Iqv4leOW6Jz0GOP8/wCfrVTTsJA2Gxu6gk89D/n8

KAO1il3RBiQADjI6H0/z+FAuoi4XepLYxg+tY9rcSmHKgO/TgdsVWuTIvIZHOMErgAf5/l7ZoA6f

NUtRsRdxYXYH7lhwR/nH5Cs/TpSQ3nHIYYxjOfz7e359q2JJ1iGT93uetAGLFoUUO0T7WLHBAzzx

WpZ6db2gBjjUN6jP9TQt0ksmyD962Ru2nAUepq5QBU1T/kHT4baSuAfTNcHIMzMSwPoePevRXQSI

VOcEY4OK4i7gaG8njfcApIHHDcY/rn6cdOgBmqrOxwCeegFaMcKW9ozsGzxyB/X/AD69qgLBbfJY

5yeo46/T/P5Uy4mBjwsvXqMcdf8AP8/agCHAkKcN8xwc8+nH+f61IIgJWXGe3cHqP8elVxggYPPb

1/zxSOQH+UgEH1oAmdcFssC/XdnPt2/z+VELDzRxgZ6Z61CHkYEhTnuQTjt/n86WJ2BG0gHOOo9K

ANfULRo7NbmGTfEThvlI2nuCO3+fasJuGBz+INdXFbXE9lInl+YcdY2IyOuCD1/n09BXN3cLwz7H

XDg8qRgj8qAK/ODjGR70E4H4dcUcliR29OlLgDBOR7etADTww9wPypNu4kj05p/IPofpxinDjGB2

xgfSgBiAYzxjOfT8zVe7XJUYwOatkKq5IycfnVa83AptAPXgUAdYZ7cldsfAGTyTz/8Ar/X86rXE

kPnNk8Ed+uOtUTnZhnx1wAc5zxVaZiZAOckdzzQBtyG3Cg7hjtwT39Kil+z+YoXgE5IJAwP8/pms

0yblILcjnOTUlkj3F/HHHy0jAdOBk/yoA7HQ7EQxG4YDL/cyOQtW7yOS6/0eNzHH/wAtXHXHoPep

XeO0twP4VAVV9fQUtvH5UeCdzMdzH3oAIIYraJYYUCIBwAKXAQscknHJJqG6EqyJJFH5gHBUNg9Q

cj8qoascS28/zhGwGUj0yfz6/kaAKz+In8xo1iUMp68nNJBG11qCm5njdwobbnp7enX8M8VdtNOt

yXBjB4BHHA4/z+nfmqGsWgtbiJ48IjqwORgDAxnj2/z2oA1L+3Eix20SxJ5hyDgDbj098Z/WsyPS

ns5jJKuYoP3mQchvb8uv0qTSrhzqA3vJJkFQOuOev04rXntmnnQuR5SYIXuTz/8AW/WgCS3LNErP

nLDOOmKzfEFyUgEKPgt8zADPHb9f5VrKAowK5zWLe5lnnlaNhGuQCDnjB/8A1/j+FAGDebiFDEkL

jbjr1P8An86tRR7YSQG4HPPGP8Md/Tmqd4GE2GOf6da2NOVWMiOGckk57/eP5n+o9KAFsLhSGU/e

GMZPTp1/If5xhojYy7GH3uFLKRnpzyahh/d3SpsXO7+8OetbwtxJEjs4dlIPy5Of15+v/wCugDPk

XyIsKCh6cjqO/wDh7U+IzzSpEm7JH3lPAHXP5/rxV0xyXEakx7U6lT2GDj+efz6dKYbu2sZmjDbC

epwT0AoAtuF020LxRtLt+983OP8AP9ahtdcs7hthLRvjo4q8kglj3KM56gjp9a4zVo/IvnUINwJO

TkcdemfTP+eKAOvnv7eCAzNICuMjbzmuR1C8W6lafCgtxkd+g/lx+tZ7NI24FyQO34j/AD+Ipsrs

Y41DnaxGBj3/AM/lQAkrsUwd2evYf57VFKxyMli3JznP+eas6fB9oultmYjzGGOnoe+Pepr7Sry3

be9u+0d8ZB7Dp/npQBSXrswS3TAOabuxIGVcY45UGlyN7Havvz0/z/n3RiG5wv5mgAAJU4Gc9MDP

p0poJ28cdvpRkYPzdunOOopCMKO/fj+dAGtYa7PYlUJ3JgfKwOB/9f8A/VVjUJINTCtCJRIQchn3

flk/X/IrHSRnXBKrheeOvapLKby7hTwxzj+VAFdomikIb6AA8/5/xpgTLknjPbFa87JdOx2KCRnO

MZ6n8PX8/pWa8LKrYwMZ7+1ADNjYzz7NSbSqjHLfTpSkHcpxnr368/8A1qlc8g43YPcdetAEYGQO

OnHPNVr6MYQA8c9CDV6IrvG7kAAZ79MVDqIjJTjjng/QUATEkPjOPqOBVeRiZc9cYGatHBOTuwen

FQOAG4GfU0AOwcHoPf8Axrd8JWyNdy3UrBfIGFzxy1YsgXywFGQR+taGgW/naoZJGK29uPMkJPAx

05+v6CgDobw7dZRp3ZookMgTrg9uPr/nmr99d/ZLVpAuWUZwBXP28kl/ds7nmeUDb6KO35f59NrV

WJTYFyOp/wA/5/WgCXTb1L+2EqKVwcEGl1K1+123lqcNnj06dD7VjeHXMVxPtwISPm9FI/8A1/5x

WhqN8ba+gUElSpJA5z26f59PWgC3bQSRgGRwTtAOPX/P9fwra7bNPYFkUFoju/Dv/j+FWoLy3uGx

FKrH2qZiFUs3QDJoAw9PMVmIpZvnmmA2qAPlGcZ/HP8AStxWDKCCCDzxWLbxNfX5uMbUUjGfoDj/

AD0+tbSAKoAGOOlACkgDJOBSOcIx9q5/WbtZ7oQJkiM7SAep4/z/AJ5qy390AqIxCtjCls/5/wA/

SgDPu4yb5gueG4XAHGfTt/kd6s6dN5MoEqKwHf8APt+PTv07Ux7gxzosoVCB2HGTg9T9f69arSkL

tlR+QQcbgD/n+X40AW71Am4kbWHI2n2P+f1rQtdQLWqKrMSMbj13dfX2qlLfwyWaxzRZkAwr7u2O

/wDn2qnDc+XKyheMkcj370AdAkl7eu0McgwACzFcAcf5/nVG+0a6iDzFg235gFbHHHtx35/xrQ0W

VgZppCCrAZYeo/8A1/0rVkxNEwQgnBx6Z/woA42PX7+2UxK67U4AKjjFRvrD3DpLeIsjKOm3H6j6

1rXVrFdRmSe1e3nzydpIY5xWHc2TIoww/BeaAFnu0YOVjHOTgdOvX/P0qi7b9uV6Huev+f8APSrD

R5dVLE+2cDv37f5PemeWzMNqtxjj8/yoASzwt4h547A5Pb9a6xZbvVI2iDqFcYbKggf54/P8uctr

C5WVZPsshQHlip2joefw/StqxW+tmeSOGTJ4H7s8/wCf89TQBj6jYS2EzpM5J65U8EYz+f8A+uqL

D5CSc8nnHJ/z/nrXQ38E06b7lZFeQ/xADsP8+/IrHvLUW823hh7Hjr/nn8aAKjjadpAJprDp2x1N

P5yBt3Zzz3PWl243EY4HAxQBf0Oy+23MkW0YVM89cZA/P/Pep4LK0gt5mM8buxwFKHIA/wA9PT6U

7wxOItTjyQokBQk9T6fqB+lb99oMV1cmVH8oty2BnJoAzNK0qO8spcSNlG2qex4HX/Pv3rEurZxO

yNxg4Jxj/P0/Cu/tbaO0hEUQwo5yep+tZd7Yi41BmRcDAJ44Jz/n8qAONliwcgfdA6/596dCm5WB

Qn3zj/P+Nbd5o09tEzRqSv3sjkAf5/TNUWE4CgAj1x9e/wDn3oAoJG2Cyg/l0FQ3UfmBS2eMg5HG

a6TT9Ge4XLKQrDO44/zn+VReI7GG0WDkruLZB5Hb/wCv9OlAGWU3AHOcHBA75wP8/pUEinzBnkEf

nVklgeAeRz/n/P5VC4RpMEdBzmgCRsbcDpnuee3NdDpVgp0YhG2yXcucgZ4U9P0P51gHK7iBjj64

4/z/APqrotC1VT5FpKqptQKjepoAu2OkfZLtH8wMkYOABjn/ACTTtZtZZImkhcqduCB3HP8An860

UdXZtpB2nBwc1FPJHvWJ2AJ5xmgCj4es5bXTsXAAeQ5I9BgDFZ2vRv8A2kpJO0Lkcn2/r6V0wAAw

BgCo5I0d13oG9MjpQByVpO8Vw7bmLAjr1PI6/iPzHpW++t20bKGV8MM5GDx/+rmoNY08LEs1upBU

4ZRwCD3x+X+RVWDSZbuNpGJUknG7r+f1P6fgAC/Hr+nnPzMnPdev+RST+ILJIXaJy7gHAx3/AM4r

nrjTGi1QWpXBc8Hsc/8A6/6daiubN422KACvXAHH4j2/z1NAEwuYRM0krM7kk8jvnv8AlRbXFnJe

bp2PkqcgA/l6VQWEySnHzDHU+n+TSLGd21Vwx9T/AJ9aAL9+Y7m4eSFywOWB69z/AIfnVdGYx7Cw

GMY44/z/APXqLZNbPtdWHUHIPf2/HvTmyswd9xBOeB7n/P8AjQBp2OnjULdiQTJGRwuM4xj+lULq

22kl1KseuTjBxn/Irbhe3tLmN4ifKkXJwCcnnj/P86i1hzc7PLGN3Xvk5/8Arf5waAF064z4fuI9

4Dbjjkjjjj9f1pdNuZJZ4LfcCC3J6HAyf506z02VtLdVbHzA4x7D86da6dI6CSAssqnGSMY/GgDo

egpkkMUuPMjR8dNyg1WtY74tm6mUKOipjJ+px/KrlAFd9PtHYM1vHlehC4x/nNOt7O2tseRBGh9Q

OfzqRpEQZZ1A9Sarm6eYAWiq4zgux+UUAWGkRD8zBfqaYLqA5/eqMdcnHbP8qrJp7SS+beSeYeyD

hRVmeOAxEzIhRRnkdKAFMkEg2F43BOMEg5NUp9EtLicyvvyTnAPHXNc+riHUZDCWKbiItvP0H+fp

3zWy+rPFaeYyqWA5BP1/w/H8DQBl6roEVvbtLA+9F4I9Py+v8qwmQrnORk55HNbMk7MrEuFDHdgH

A7/5/wDrGqXl75GGAAhxwPw/z/8AqoApxzNHKrKxUjBBHGOpB/WvQbC7S9tEmQjJ4YA9COtefvhX

Jc/TPX/PvW94WulS5kiZhtKFs5HGMf0/z0oA6umMMLgZzUbXlsq7jPHjGfvCqy61YM+3z+cZ6GgC

zbzRTodjA44Yeh+lMksoGYOIY9w6ZXj8qxhcyzapLNZb3ReTwcGpzq0hjClMS89+en8//wBfSgC1

JexwYgCY42gY464AzXM+IbxbkQtyOTnb+n6CrVzcySqZGY5x1Ppzx9Ofp61k6o5DRjpgtyOvagBY

sdcqDg9ePaoZ+Gck8j0qcD5QFOD16Z54/wA/jUE+eeADQANnAzyO/wBa0LqF7byJgDs2g7sfxdcf

XtUEMHn3MEA4LSBSeoHOK7NhavbC1fYUB8sKT6HFAFfw7Gy6e0jHPmSFgc9un+NYWuyldaim3YUO

MYHPH/6v0P49dEgiiWNR8qDA+lcldxfbNbt4Qd4BBYEH3J/kPyoA62NwYg59OTWdFqxlbcIsR/3v

5f4/Tn2pdTD2elymM8bQp/E4J/WqmmIvlo3JRiOnY8Hn8ST+XegDZhuI50BAZSQCVYYIqVSCMjoa

jEKIBsG0gAAj0HasO21aUXbRlg0YcgD0Gcf5/wAKALl9Gn9u2EjgHKsOT3HT8cmjUtNWV3lQsrtg

HqR6dvw/CqOrXRTUrSYk+XGwPy87gc5/l+hq3eapC0OYyQW43HjGBkH86AItN0om2cyfKXGAPyPX

8Kx9S082+oIm5VzyMntkfl/n1rrLBla1UxnK8/z/AM+/rWL4gcNeDAyY0H55/wAP50AZN/sR41iH

BQFwzcknB/D/ABq/otwl/ZHTpTh1G6Nv1/r/AJzUOpWhS7GxlZcDBOeeBz+mPwrOVJLe4jaNtr/9

Mzg5Pb/PFAF0vhlgfcJFbgHt6/5/Cug+wReYspA3ADCqPl/zzXJTOzzLPmRwx+bJzn1FdZp92bq0

glkYF/4u31/oaAL9t/qvu7cEjH04qXgVl3GpfZJHiwHIIx2xkf5/zirVjObmMyMOVO368DmgC10r

n77Vblw6RxMFI4+XnnpXQ0nHegDCs9KlnkSW53Rxjny+mev+f161uIiooVFCqOgAqld6nDbhlUhn

A59B9azX1yWT7iqmTxyc/wCf60Ab7usaFmOFAyTWLqGrCUPbwq3PG4deuP8AP/16IbG+u4mFzK0Q

Jyc8nP0/z0GK0rSwt7NcRJz1LE5NAFG20gRRRTuT58Y3bSBjOOn6Vg6tdNe3pyVC45APGP8APf05

rb1vU/LUW9vIhZgd+OeMdKxI7OR7Nrtym3oW6c5H9c+1AGcuRubufujHr7VPZzfK7BdpI9/r/n8+

1VWjGDnPPdTUkbFITyw5yeeD0/8A1/lQA2U7ixIbB9B1PPp/n86uaJOINXgkcjbznnOMg/5//VWc

0gV9oHy55BHP0/U01Gbf94A/5/8ArUAdD4gspEmMsULRRNx8vI3Z6+1ZVvGxYs3y4Hf+X6dPwrYj

utStbCO8DfaLVgflf5tvOOf5VFBrcZRlmsYJMg/cXaQP/wBX40AbGgPGtuYxGVfOSSP61a1CxF2g

ZCBIvTI61zn9qQRsDBHJExGdrMGwevp9KvWmuHzG3nCnnaQc9T/n8PpQBVvoFjPcZUHnjBxyMf0r

ntUcAx8Y698Z6V1WpyJOC4DlWXcB27Z/+v7e9cpqJzIMA98ZHbigC991cMOSfpVecBZVHUYHTFWA

7L8q4btkjrVa4cicbfvYHNAGvoUQk1iHIzsyx9iB1/l+lS3Vwf7fGSfLjnxj8eak8Kqft0zHp5f8

yP8ACqus4TU5vLBz5wbgY54P+fpQB2feqyWsAvGuFRfMIxkCrIzjmoQPJc4BKnpjtQAt1bpdQNDJ

na2M49jn+lVrXThaTZjlPl4+5j+v+e34zfbbcXP2cviTGcEVZoAhupPItJpR1RCw79q4iJ8XJOTw

MAdOef1z3/Su01CQR2MzEA/LjBPrx/WufvbNI7dZoTuD/NwOvPT68/ofrQBUv5WlQljknHJ7/wCf

6euKiuJH8tArH67evXH9f85q1e2JXTYboODuOGC8VSTmaMAnHBIxyv8Akc/5xQBqwXMkO3ZIwAHA

J465HH0x/L1rPlvJZppZ3w5HIz36/wBOP/rVNdSMIGLbdpO3JPJzj/P4j2FZkaAkYLD15+n5UAa4

l3Wqs7EsPl24xjGf/rf5xU+l2UN7dSNLHlY16g9W5H+J/WspHljjKZA284bgj/PT6/nWpoWoxxRu

Jhy7ZLAf59TQBU1CxNnO8fG08qQOv+T/AJ6VFpt69tOFdmYZ+6Ttq7qswv7gOgLBOF4xn8/8/wA6

JrWS+ET2kADIMOQep9fx60APaB9RZ5kVSVIydx9ug/PitrTx5NosR4dc5+uadptuLa28sKA2Tux3

PrVTUvMkuooEGFyDkZ7n/wDX+v4gFy2uRIHYsvlg/K1OMrygiJSB/eNZN1fpb5tYgGQEc+/+eava

fqMM8PRYtvY8DFAFEaJcPI+6ZUjJ4wMntj0rRstNgs1GPnYfxMOnuPT/AOtS3t/HBGwV18w8KM9C

fWuXvtSmuJfnLEDOAD0/CgDrZ7yCD/WSAHGcdTWBqmvlv3VuGVScMSoORx2P1rLggub+UeUshPrj

jt1/TmtRPD0y2jvJIhlxnYFznpxn8KAMTzjLLvkJYnOSSB/nk9f8KsveFdJe2wNhbcOOT/n/AD1q

m2FX7rbj1IP09KjkQB0CE8n6HP8Ak/54oAayoVVcHJ7dfX/P/wCqtZ7ES2CsJADt3AdfT/A/5NYv

zBlKnG30J571cS5kSBvmwNuO3uP60AU5AVkIPUHB/wA/0/Co+McmpWEewsQzZBOck/56f5xUO0Ll

Tjkc5oA6HQdchs7c2lyhaM9Mc9eox6VoSS6DIxlaPcePlwRj3xXIxFVlQscYOSO1a0torOGVwxb5

sjtz1zQBcur7TNoW3tFDDnd0A79O/f8AyazpZVZ2dcfNzhRgU8WAWMuXAOM44J/zx/So5kihOVO/

BwOSR2PfrQAC53qAcH3yOv8AnPNUb4HEfzZ64OMen/16ld1UFRge4FUNROSmOQM+9AGttPQEc+vH

+etQzYLMc/Mcc/5+lSjkk89TzmoXBSTj8eMUAdH4XXFxJ/uZ/WtGPS45ZJ5p4wXeYlfYZqv4ZixF

NNtAyQo/D/8AWKl1DWFtZo4oU3EyYYgcdefqeaANiopnWMqzMAM96kYhRk9K4vxFqMg1T5GIEYXo

e/B/z/k0AddNawzOHZAJF6OOopbf5U8suGZeODz/AJ/zzXNyeI5pNohyjYJOQPfH+f5VnR6jPHeS

T+b8wJOen5//AF/b2oA3/EF48YjhjPyuNze9ZTXzRQfZpozlRtx/d5BPH4H8u3eK/ke9AulJPADD

/H2z/nkCqdy0r3G5nYsSfmJyc5I/P9fxoA6ESI+gMpYqowwDYGeecD6/57VnRQq9wvzDJwBz05HP

PuP89KgJ225iw5ZeSRz6/wCP+etLbXAV48x4RSD0+8Pr+H+eaALuq2awWiRKwdm/hAzgjj+fH51S

NuylSrDCjOBjI/zg/wCcmrV7fJeXe5CxAAA56dc/qfyrS0u2jS1knkx83GWPb8f89+lAHN+YFJAX

gtgHt/nt/nNW40AhiXcqnPTGDjjn8v8APWrZ06S9uG8jG0MfmPAHJ9vf6/pW7aaZb22G2B5B/G3O

KAKOnaMuzzLrcd3RM44x3raACgAAADsKWkoAhuJUgRnbgHrWRfym2IkWQyGUFQx/gHB/kc1rSxrK

dkigqTx8v6fzrPvLJ4kLgF41+9jggY7e9AGLcKkRCmRSwwWYjv8A5/z0qnFKY5AolYqMNhTwP84q

1JEkjvuHUcbuMfr/AJ6VU27YeGBwMjb1H+eKAOj0ue2uo/JkiVHXoWA5+mfc1ppYWiDAt4z7lcn9

a4rcYxmMkbjyM9Tn0/T9O9LJq17GFUXUm3HHzH/J7f5zQB3QEcMeAFjQenAFYmq66io0NqfmbI3n

8emK5yO/uppf3krkdwO//wBb/wDVUBAdWZiT6kn/AD/n6UADf6whWGAScg9f84qLc2/cwLYGMkk5

7UqEgAll56dKRm6hSRnsP8/5/CgAHzHnk+/GelSyKVCrnOMDA57/AOf84qayiVrgM2AF55P9f61H

ej/STHHhlXPQduf6UAV3lyRzwOw4B5H+fyqNxg4PU44I9ev6mnqckbhj1IH+fzplw4aQlfu9gaAG

NhsZwSeT2xUonkUDDMfQ1F7HgUZBbIHPXGKALLXkjLjOc9/8/wCeKieZixDHj27VHt+VjngUmeMY

9KAHseNx4xgVWvSH2Ficc9B9KmIBXGQQOMVBeHdtJOaAN8KNhXaAe3B5qGRD543E7ePy9vxq8FZv

mxwRjj3yP8/4VXkX5znAyMeuaAOm0XMWjO6kZO5wAOnGOn4VnRj7TqFjb7Niht56/Njn+h/zmtbS

lEumhM5BUrn1zUlvpyQ6g11uydm0DHTJzQA/Ub0Wds0mMt/CPU157qLPJeb2x8zZx1FekTxQPG3n

qpQckt2ri7aCKfWVUx/u2OVB7gAmgCpFsH7zOQM98dz/AI1bstMubsnbEwjkJ+c5AH4/5/Ota3Gn

2t+bdoMt1yw+Ufh+BrckaO3t3dmYoo6L/IAUAc9eWtlpyrGju84GGwcAfh+NYscgkuFy3y7geP8A

PvS3oeR2IDjnuecdP6f57pFavJc4RC3PbnqePT0/yKAJ7khsFCc45wB6D8+v9OlQRq6o7A4UYxjk

fh+H8/StKLRb6dCfLZSMj5/lz36H6Cta28PqItlw4OQM7O/4n/CgDmbeJptqRgtITjAHXp/9f/IF

dNpum3JhUXLtHEOfKJB3H3rStbC2tBiCJVPr1P51ZoAaiKihVGAKdRSUALSUVFNcwwLulkCj3oAW

V0VTvGF4yeneqmo3Ekdvug+YMMFgeen+f8mq2oazCqNEg8wsMHHIBziuWuL2SRiFlOCc+nbHSgB9

xLMm7J2ksOvX/Oc1VMruuwHcc8gdf8/570FjKzE9M59e/wD+qo4BuZnyeAehx1zxQAqq7yq25h2J

54/Kp44gZCeoUenXr/nj29afHEynYVDMeBg89R/hT2Dxqm0sCAPbOf8AJ/WgCJoyIy+0Ag84P+f8

59KrNJhWXfwe3r/n/PWrLFmkCnG0k8Fs8kjpioHVMDtgckL+P+NAETZ2gY47/pSbP3nPAHSlDYG4

HAOO/p/n9aRcjt/X1xQBbhujDFIdytnjpn+f1qFnEvmSAD5j0z/nP+TSXGFwuWC46Yx/n/8AVSqC

uMjIxxn8f8DQBCSVBB7+o/z+VRltp696lfJ+ZgBjj/PtUYwGU5yexxzQA05ydv8A+r39qXqRk/Q5

poG0ckBvQ9OlPJwc4Ax69zQAgycr37UFs8d6Dgfd5x+VIDuViD19TQAhOc4Y8857VBdDcEA7e2an

BYjpz9OtV7vgr83r1oA6cTKCVAHX2/n/AD+lQzSBZwyggejc+n+f/wBdbT2/h6GVkk1aGORDtZWu

YwQQeQR6/wCetRNbeGmzu1qE5/6e46ANzR0ZLBGfOXO7kY9v6Z/GibUbaHUUt3b94yHkdvrUFxq+

jzxhP7atI+c5juUB/nVEnw8b0XZ1q3MgOf8Aj6jxQBralCJ7Q/eYAZwp6/8A165SKeOx1m3dl+QH

6dcj+tdN/bmjbcf2rY/+BCf41mXa+HLuRHk1m3BVdo23UY4oAsXWmtqMwnixGwXaCw4PXn9f84qK

yku47hLWRGLr0Hpz1Ptjj6fnV6HWdGhhSJdXsiEUKC1ymTj8acNa0UOXGp2G49T9oTP86ALDWiXU

QF5EjHrgdvbPepYbeGAARRquPQVU/t3R/wDoK2P/AIEJ/jR/buj/APQVsf8AwIT/ABoA0KKz/wC3

dH/6Ctj/AOBCf40f27o//QVsf/AhP8aANCis/wDt3R/+grY/+BCf40f27o//AEFbH/wIT/GgC/UM

k6qxjBIfbu/Cqv8Abuj/APQVsf8AwIT/ABqOTVtDlxv1OxOP+nlR/WgCMatJvVQgO7uw6H8P89ve

sG9unkZiWBzk9c/5/wDrVuNeeHGcudQsdx7i6Uf+zVGZfDBJP26x56/6WMf+hUAc2zkkO+5gOMe3

P+cfhVR1BUjgEkH3rrc+FSMfbLDH/X2P/iqUt4WIx9s0/HXH2of/ABVAHIKrKNqqeeOR/n3/ADNS

xqEAyvP59q65LnwwnS60s/70yH+ZqT7f4c/5+9K/7+R/40AczFMJruEKMqOxH9O/+RWnNsV2G0cp

x82c5Hf1/wD1HpWmuoeHFYMt5pQYdCJY8j9akOraCcZ1DTTjp++Tj9aAMCK1EpHyYKtkkDIxz1/w

71XvbUxbkC845P8A9c9v/rHtXS/2n4fH/L9pn/f2P/GlOq6Awwb/AE0j3mj/AMaAOHMJ4wuSCBjF

PSBpHVcHG0d+P/rdf612i6poCnK3+mA+00f+NSLrejKMLqlgB7XCf40AcNJEzOe4H90/5/z9aFRg

p2qTxj27/wCf/wBVd3/buj/9BWx/8CE/xo/t3R/+grY/+BCf40AcNJC8dqMYBJ6d/wDPX/JqoySb

jkHPQ16J/buj/wDQVsf/AAIT/Gj+3dH/AOgrY/8AgQn+NAHnvkynHyknP5f5/wA9aUQuTkIfTivQ

f7d0f/oK2P8A4EJ/jR/buj/9BWx/8CE/xoA898mRQcA5Pt7ilFrMdgET5P8Ask16D/buj/8AQVsf

/AhP8aP7d0f/AKCtj/4EJ/jQBwI0+6YfLbStj0Qmq95pl6ojzaTgHPPln/CvRv7d0f8A6Ctj/wCB

Cf40f27o/wD0FbH/AMCE/wAaANCis/XtT/sbR57/AMnzvK2/Ju25ywHXB9a5OO4ttP1LW7zTYo1t

5JbW3hubYIsUWR8537WVVzjdweSPY0Ad5RXC2XiW8uJbe2uNSihhF5PFNeRmM4RVzHliuz5juAO0

Z28d6br806apok2n3H22+2XJEwhUytFzhgvAbC7tvZiMjrQB3lFV7C4hu7GGe3uPtMToNsvGX9zg

DB9RgYPYV53p6Wf265lnjtJdGTVWDLEQCpORE78Y8kcgcgZY9elAHplFcboer6peyJJe6jbQqwmF

zBuXzLfGcNt2fJtx1dmByO5AqG01vVZfCE+qx6lHc3kUTB7dYVJjzJgOwHIIUMfTGOOCSAdxRXF3

mr6mNO1yTT7+S5jsXha3ukjjfeCB5ikhdpC5zwAR3OKbH4mmmFxCL5QW1GWOO4EkccccQXKhmKMP

m528ZODzxQB21FcPpPiS51E2K32px2MLWjtJOnlrvmWTbtJcEA7cNgY+9npiuys9/wBig8yRpX8t

d0jR+WWOOSV/hz6dqAJqK43UfEtxba4oW4WCBL9baWC4kQHYV5kC7AwXnIYuR7YOKpweJtSiu223

q3sbz3cEIdEw/lorRYKAZLEge+eBmgDvqK4fw5drP4tgnmuY5ZrnSlLP5YQvJuBYZGAxGCMjoFwe

VJrY8Y/8een+Z/x6/wBoQ/ad33PLyc7+23OOvHSgDoKK8/1HUIl8M381rDaacn2grFAjRyxXhVkV

nVXTBUADBXvkmtbxJ4gaJVGnXixg20k6XHmxiKUqcbFJRt7A/wAIK/XngA6qivP7/wAU34P2qz1C

NlTT4bqSBFRkWUyIrIeNwGCeM5Getd9HIksayRuro4DKynIYHoQaAHUVwPhqyil1a/vrS7trS1tL

m63SQuu5o2A2cY2hFwWBORkdO9TWutyweH9eksbiCe8hu5GjKIm5o8qDKVQANwSd2MevFAHcUVxN

/rOpWmg6hcrq9tI0ckX2aSFklyTwyM3lqrcfNgDcO/GM2tU1K/tjp/katBLa3ksha7+SONNqDCB9

rqBuDkZBPGM8E0AdZRXE3jXTX3hu81HUViAE6SXcIVYgdp2sC64+cDvwcZX1q1dSLD44ivJrue3g

l08GPdGAZCJAfKAK5JPB2j58nt0oA6yiuXh1GCPx08D6hBKjWhUF/K3JJ5uPKDAA8f3SSa6IXURv

WtAWMyxiUjYcBSSB82MckHjOeDQBNRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFZfia8utP8P3l1Yrm4jQ

Ffl3bRkAtj2GT6cc1z82u36PdRwX3n2KXttD/aGxDsjdcyfMBs4OBkjjdz2oA7SiuN14NNZ6fcJq

0tzbRapETc7Iwsa4A3bgu07Wz83TLEHJFSa1rdxBPsh1FoLZdOknhuGRB9pmU4Ayy4OQAcKBndkc

EUAddRXm8Wq3Vreaxd2ZjhvJPsjG2SHIlmIG+P2OS+V+8SDz8rVtW+q6tPr00TXltCsV+Yfskhw7

w8cqgQucg7t27HXjAoA66iuX8M6jc6leXSvrMcy213KqRBI900IGAxIxxkqQQB365GOkuDGLeUzP

5cWw7337Noxydwxj69qAJKK4PT/st34f8RWEOqwWzSXsrJJJPnMeUAJYnJVvu7uc571H/pieF/8A

n1sbzVffyktXP/ASsZP+7kHtuoA9Aorz/VNQmfQNEmNpBZ2ciTSy2zRkQO6KWjBAI4YgkLnnI+9i

u409t+nWz/Z/s26JD5GMeVwPlxgdOnTtQBYork9G1K2Ot63C+rQOuyIxXP7lXcCMlm3BQG2+4IGP

rUPhLX768vra31C7WUXVm0671VSHWVlwuAM/KuSDk8UAdlRWP4s+x/8ACPXn23yP9U/k+dj/AFmx

tu3P8XXGOa5u5jtj4Y8PTWU0cMUV3bm6eAJtjfaAXc4OGHHX15B4oA7yiuT8Qa7LbQxJZXkkZFpJ

MtzKyRpOVwAFzGd7HrhdoIIIOCMU21TTZ9e8Oak09jHPJFI146Oo2sYgAGOcjnIGT7UAdxRXJ3t1

rK+KP7JgvZNk7x3COIkPkwYcSAnb13ABcg9snmusoAKKKKACiiigAooooAKhitYIbieeOJVluCDK

/dsAAfkB0+vqamooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAoqnPHqTTMbe7tI4v4Vktmdh9SJBn8qj8

nWP+f6x/8A3/APjtAGhRWf5Osf8AP9Y/+Ab/APx2jydY/wCf6x/8A3/+O0AaFFZ/k6x/z/WP/gG/

/wAdo8nWP+f6x/8AAN//AI7QBoUVn+TrH/P9Y/8AgG//AMdo8nWP+f6x/wDAN/8A47QBoUVn+TrH

/P8AWP8A4Bv/APHaPJ1j/n+sf/AN/wD47QBoUVn+TrH/AD/WP/gG/wD8do8nWP8An+sf/AN//jtA

GhRWf5Osf8/1j/4Bv/8AHaPJ1j/n+sf/AADf/wCO0AaFFZ/k6x/z/WP/AIBv/wDHaPJ1j/n+sf8A

wDf/AOO0AaFFZ/k6x/z/AFj/AOAb/wDx2jydY/5/rH/wDf8A+O0AOTSLOPUjqKrKbogrvaeQ/KTn

bgnGMnOMYFXqz/J1j/n+sf8AwDf/AOO0eTrH/P8AWP8A4Bv/APHaANCis/ydY/5/rH/wDf8A+O0e

TrH/AD/WP/gG/wD8doA0KKz/ACdY/wCf6x/8A3/+O0eTrH/P9Y/+Ab//AB2gDQorP8nWP+f6x/8A

AN//AI7R5Osf8/1j/wCAb/8Ax2gDQorP8nWP+f6x/wDAN/8A47R5Osf8/wBY/wDgG/8A8doA0KKz

/J1j/n+sf/AN/wD47R5Osf8AP9Y/+Ab/APx2gDQorP8AJ1j/AJ/rH/wDf/47R5Osf8/1j/4Bv/8A

HaANCis/ydY/5/rH/wAA3/8AjtHk6x/z/WP/AIBv/wDHaANCis/ydY/5/rH/AMA3/wDjtHk6x/z/

AFj/AOAb/wDx2gDQorP8nWP+f6x/8A3/APjtHk6x/wA/1j/4Bv8A/HaAP//Z

--=====================_885834475==_--

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:50:14 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: "Sturm und Drang" and Beat

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.PMDF.3.95.980126085150.14150A-100000@uoft02.utoledo.e du>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Sara wrote:

>Well, IDDHI, as Goethe once said, "Leck mich am Arsch!"

>

>But seriously, has anyone ever read any of the German Sturm und Drang

>literature? Like _Die Leiden des Jungen Werthers_ (or in English _The

>Sorrows of Young Werther_)? That book was Beat 200 years before Beat. It

>is as beautiful as On the Road, as ugly and as gorgeous as Howl. Has

>anyone else read any Sturm und Drang? What's your take on it?

>                        --Sara

>

Sara you reminded me...

before sturm und drang i think there's an italian (venetian) poet

named Ugo Foscolo(1778-1827), who wrote "Le ultime lettere di Jacopo Ortis"

_The last letters of Jacopo Ortis_ about the juvenile pain

of romantic love same period of goethe.

but Foscolo was a young cosmopolitan poet, he was a political

refugee (as many italians) and devasted of the suicidal death

of his brother cuz of debt of honour. Ugo Foscolo banished by

Napoleone Bonaparte was living the last years of his life in

London, where he died in dire poverty at Turnham Green near

London. Many times i pass by the house he lived in Venice,

near the fondamenta of San Marco (Castello).

In the beginning of spring the wall of the house are adorned

by geraniums...near a strange tavern maybe the same he go to...

 

saluti,

Rinaldo.

-------

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:00:04 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Maggie Dharma <IDDHI@AOL.COM>

Subject:      1957 or 1998?

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

Certainly, eternal relevance is a hallmark of the best literature and/or

philosophy. But even knowing that, I found my mind blown today by the

relevance of this passage from DESOLATION ANGELS:

 

...........................................................

My money came and it was time to go but there's poor Irwin at midnight calling

up to me from the garden "come on down Jack-Kee, there's a big bunch of

hipsters and chicks from Paris in Bull's room." And just in New York or Frisco

or anywhere there they are all hunching around in marijuana smoke, talking,

the cool girls with thin legs in slacks, the men with goatees, all an enormous

drag after all and at the time (1957) not even started yet officially with the

name of "Beat Generation." To think that I had something to do with it too, in

fact at that very moment the manuscript of ROAD was being linotyped for

imminent publication and I was already sick of the whole subject. Nothing can

be more dreary than "coolness" (not Irwin's cool, or Bull's, or Simon's, which

is natural quietness) but postured actually secretly RIGID  coolness that

covers up the fact that the character is unable to convey anything of force or

interest, a kind of sociological coolness soon to become a fad up into the

mass of middleclass youth for awhile. There's even a kind of insultingness,

probably unintentional, like when I said to the Paris girl just fresh she said

from visiting a Persian Shah for Tiger hunt "Did you actually shoot the tiger

yourself?" she gave me a cold look as tho I'd just tried to kiss her at the

window of a Drama School. Or tried to trip the Huntress. Or something. But all

I could do was sit on the of the bed in despair like Lazarus listening to

their awful "likes" and "like you know" and "wow crazy" and "a wig, man" "a

real gas"-- All this was about to sprout out all over America even down to

High School level and be attributed in part to my doing!

 

.....................................................

There are some quotes, a bunch of them, whose essence is: "Don't imitate what

you study, but use knowledge to beat a new path," or something to that effect.

That's been running through my head when reading some of the recent posts (I

won't mention which ones) and reflecting on the state of "being Beat." Anyone

who has a quote that resembles what I've written here, could you please mail

it to me? I'd appreciate it.

Maggie

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:11:01 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sara Feustle <sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>

Subject:      Re: "Sturm und Drang" and Beat

In-Reply-To:  <3.0.1.32.19980126195014.00701ee8@pop.gpnet.it>

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Thanks, Rinaldo, I'll definitely check that out. _Die Leiden des jungen

Werthers_ is very similar... A young, emotional man falls in love with a

girl who is engaged to some one else. They fall in love, but she marries

the guy to whom she was already engaged. Werther (the aforementioned

young, emotional man) shoots himself, and his death is described in great

detail. The book is written as a series of letters, in which Werther

describes his emotions in detail, and the whole novel is just beautiful.

I've always wanted to compare the Sturm und Drang works with the American

Beat-generation works, because Beat could be considered a later, American

"Sturm und Drang" period.

 

                         Sara Feustle

                    sfeustl@uoft02.utoledo.edu

                      Cronopio, cronopio?

 

 

On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

 

> Sara wrote:

> >Well, IDDHI, as Goethe once said, "Leck mich am Arsch!"

> >

> >But seriously, has anyone ever read any of the German Sturm und Drang

> >literature? Like _Die Leiden des Jungen Werthers_ (or in English _The

> >Sorrows of Young Werther_)? That book was Beat 200 years before Beat. It

> >is as beautiful as On the Road, as ugly and as gorgeous as Howl. Has

> >anyone else read any Sturm und Drang? What's your take on it?

> >                        --Sara

> >

> Sara you reminded me...

> before sturm und drang i think there's an italian (venetian) poet

> named Ugo Foscolo(1778-1827), who wrote "Le ultime lettere di Jacopo Ortis"

> _The last letters of Jacopo Ortis_ about the juvenile pain

> of romantic love same period of goethe.

> but Foscolo was a young cosmopolitan poet, he was a political

> refugee (as many italians) and devasted of the suicidal death

> of his brother cuz of debt of honour. Ugo Foscolo banished by

> Napoleone Bonaparte was living the last years of his life in

> London, where he died in dire poverty at Turnham Green near

> London. Many times i pass by the house he lived in Venice,

> near the fondamenta of San Marco (Castello).

> In the beginning of spring the wall of the house are adorned

> by geraniums...near a strange tavern maybe the same he go to...

>

> saluti,

> Rinaldo.

> -------

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:31:05 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "James F. Wood 253-7886" <WOODJ@MAIL.FIRN.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Back to Allen (was Re: Lewinsky-Clinton / Abishag-King David)

In-Reply-To:  <34CAB59A.79D7@midusa.net>

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

 

i again that may be the reason as you suggested, I dont know much about all

this computer stuff except how to send most e-mail and surf the web.

Thanks

 

see ya

 

Jim Wood

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:07:25 +0000

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: "Sturm und Drang" and Beat

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

"Sturm and Drang" conntect to Beat only in so much as Beat is in a line of

evolution from Romanticism, (of which Sturm and Drang is a subset) in it's

emphasis on the personal and the alienation of the individual in an increasingly

complex society--to be pedantic about it.  You could probably seem some

connection between The Sorrows of Young Werther and Howl, but I doubt that it

would illuminate either work much.

 

James Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:29:50 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Organization: smiling small thoughts

Subject:      Re: 1957 or 1998?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Maggie Dharma wrote:

>

> .....................................................

> There are some quotes, a bunch of them, whose essence is: "Don't imitate what

> you study, but use knowledge to beat a new path," or something to that effect.

> That's been running through my head when reading some of the recent posts (I

> won't mention which ones) and reflecting on the state of "being Beat." Anyone

> who has a quote that resembles what I've written here, could you please mail

> it to me? I'd appreciate it.

> Maggie

 

it was fairly obvious but this was most of what my ditty Zyprexa Blues

#235 was ALL about.  And it runs the gamut of culture not just beats.  I

sent that writing to former bosses and students and colleagues around

the country and a former Hawkeye student who is now a lawyer wrote back

almost immediately about how clearly he could identify with the "kill

Jacky" portion.

 

siesta time,

dbr

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:21:20 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: scope

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

YO, brother bill. thanks again

mc

 

Bill Gargan wrote:

 

> Once again, Beat-l is not a chat room.  Messages about the superbowl and

> personal relationships have no place on this list.   I have to ask

> everyone to respect the scope of the list as defined in the original

> welcome message.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:46:29 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nico 88 <NICO88@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Jack Kerouac and Gian Pieretti during 1966.

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

In a message dated 98-01-26 13:14:06 EST, you write:

 

> i think,

>  the first italian beat was a woman exactly Carmen Villani.

>

 

hey, Rinaldo--

    this is interesting-- could you tell us a little more about Signora

Villani?

 in america, women didn't have much place in the (popularized) beat movement,

(and fine, anyone can disagree with me on this, but i dont know who would)

other than Cassady's wonderful kicks, be it sex or physical abuse, so i'd dig

an italian beat lady, definitely.

                                          tutte buone cose,

                                                 Ginny

 



back