=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:03:54 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      9' O2 7" 2F

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Hi everybody

 

Gong Xi Fa Cai

 

Gong Xi Fa cai

 

=B9=A7 =CF=B2 =B7=A2 =B2=C6=20

 

=AE=A5 =B3=DF =B5o =B0]=20

 

Xin Nian Kuai Le !!

 

=B7s =A6~ =A7=D6 =BC=D6=20

 

=D0=C2 =C4=EA =BF=EC =C0=D6=20

 

Congrats and get rich

 

Saludos Amigos

 

Prospero ano y felicidades

 

(To the tune of Freres Jacques)

 

Two Old Tigers, Two Old Tigers

Running Fast, Running Fast

One of them got no eyes, one of them got no ears

ain't that weird ain't that weird

 

=A4=EB =ABG =A4=FD

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:08:39 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From:         Mary Maconnell <MMACONNELL@MAIL.EWU.EDU>

Subject:      beat weekend

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So aside from a party on Saturday night which I don't remember I ended up

finishing "Junky" and reading the whole of Carolyn Cassady's book, "Heart

Beat: My Life With Jack and Neal."  I really really really loved Junky and

totally got into it and since I had previously tried to read "The Wild

Boys" and couldn't get into it I felt Burroughs was re-established as

a writer good and true in my eyes.  Carolyn's book was revealing to me

(as I didn't know she and Jack had an affair but I'm not surprised) and

was wondering what anyone else thought about it.

 

So right now I'm reading "Jack's Book" (can't remember the author's name)

and "Tristessa" by Jack and totally digging this groove but can't help

but wonder if I'm doing too much reading and not enough _doing_ lately --

you know what I mean?

 

Mary

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:35:04 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From:         Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>

Subject:      Re: beat weekend

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Mary Maconnell wrote:

 

> So aside from a party on Saturday night which I don't remember I ended up

> finishing "Junky" and reading the whole of Carolyn Cassady's book, "Heart

> Beat: My Life With Jack and Neal."  Carolyn's book was revealing to me

> (as I didn't know she and Jack had an affair but I'm not surprised) and

> was wondering what anyone else thought about it.

 

I enjoyed this book as well.  You might be interested to know that it is in

fact an excerpt from the later-published "Off The Road: My Years With

Cassady, Kerouac, & Ginsberg," which is well worth reading.  It is

refreshing to get a woman's intimate perspective on the Beat G's "inner

circle."

 

Jym

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:13:16 +0000

Reply-To:     jhasbro@tezcat.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         John Hasbrouck <jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>

Subject:      Re: beat weekend

Comments: cc: Mary Maconnell <MMACONNELL@MAIL.EWU.EDU>

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Mary Maconnell wrote:

>

> So aside from a party on Saturday night which I don't remember I ended up

> finishing "Junky" and reading the whole of Carolyn Cassady's book, "Heart

> Beat: My Life With Jack and Neal."  I really really really loved Junky and

> totally got into it and since I had previously tried to read "The Wild

> Boys" and couldn't get into it I felt Burroughs was re-established as

> a writer good and true in my eyes.  Carolyn's book was revealing to me

> (as I didn't know she and Jack had an affair but I'm not surprised) and

> was wondering what anyone else thought about it.

>

> So right now I'm reading "Jack's Book" (can't remember the author's name)

> and "Tristessa" by Jack and totally digging this groove but can't help

> but wonder if I'm doing too much reading and not enough _doing_ lately --

> you know what I mean?

>

> Mary

 

Keep up the good work, Mary. Carolyn's book HEART BEAT can know be seen

as a first draft of her memior OFF THE ROAD, a crucial volume which

indisputably possesses canonical status in the sphere of Beat Lit. (The

horrible movie based on HEART BEAT doesn't deserve comment.) WILD BOYS

is tough going and reserved for the Truly Devoted, though it rewards the

Earnest Reader. JUNKY is required reading, and, IMHO, best enjoyed when

read concurrently with the relevant passages in WSB's SELECTED LETTERS

and LITERARY OUTLAW (the WSB bio). Concurrent reading is great kicks

with JUNKY, especially when you can determine where Bill adheres to

things as they happened and where he fictionalized. JACK'S BOOK is

wonderful, of course, but upon relection, I wonder how many of the

numerous _Kerouac Myths_ originated from this really neat oral

biography. You're reading TRISTESSA? Cool. Sounds like you've got the

Beat Bug bad. I won't advise you as to what to read next. Just keep

doin' what yer doin'.

 

And no, you're not doing too much reading. Reading IS doing. Reading IS

experience.

 

humbly,

John Hasbrouck, LM

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:57:22 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: beat weekend

In-Reply-To:  <01ISU2W8SH0I8Y586M@mail.ewu.edu>

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I consider it very beat to just sit by my window, reading my books and

smoking my cigarettes. There's more than one way to be beat, you know but

I know what Mary means about doing too much reading and not enough doing,

but sometimes, all you can do is read...

 On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Mary

Maconnell wrote:

 

> So aside from a party on Saturday night which I don't remember I ended up

> finishing "Junky" and reading the whole of Carolyn Cassady's book, "Heart

> Beat: My Life With Jack and Neal."  I really really really loved Junky and

> totally got into it and since I had previously tried to read "The Wild

> Boys" and couldn't get into it I felt Burroughs was re-established as

> a writer good and true in my eyes.  Carolyn's book was revealing to me

> (as I didn't know she and Jack had an affair but I'm not surprised) and

> was wondering what anyone else thought about it.

>

> So right now I'm reading "Jack's Book" (can't remember the author's name)

> and "Tristessa" by Jack and totally digging this groove but can't help

> but wonder if I'm doing too much reading and not enough _doing_ lately --

> you know what I mean?

>

> Mary

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:33:14 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         IDDHI <IDDHI@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: beat weekend

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In a message dated 26-Jan-98 5:31:14 PM Pacific Standard Time,

nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU writes:

 

<< just sit by my window, reading my books and smoking my cigarettes >>

 

I don't know if it's Beat or not, but you made me long for the days when I

used to do that!

 

The view's not much, but man, the light is good.

maggie

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:24:14 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Organization: smiling small thoughts

Subject:      Re: beat weekend

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Mary Maconnell wrote:

> I really really really loved Junky and

> totally got into it and since I had previously tried to read "The Wild

> Boys" and couldn't get into it I felt Burroughs was re-established as

> a writer good and true in my eyes.

>

i loaned my copy of Junky to a Junky in hopes that he might be willing

to fight the borders of illiteracy he faced with a subject that he could

relate to.  it is my understanding that he did not read it and left it

in a crackhouse somewhere.

 

about a year later he was in the headlines.  a wealthy man had been

financing the young guys drug habits and in exchange their was some

level of same sex stimulation as quid pro quo.  The young guy -- and i

don't remember his name these days -- could not handle the situation and

killed him dead.  he was convicted and either is in prison or committed

suicide.

 

since then a friend let me have my fingers on the two cassette version

of William reading Junkie and it is just amazing to hear it in his

voice.  I listened to it many many times in my car and on my last trip

East through Lawrence to Kansas City (before flying to my satori in

Paris).  My favorite line is about the young girl who died falling off a

horse.  I left the cassettes with my Father to listen to.

 

david

> Mary

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:52:53 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      no words

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no words, no soul no hearbeat within in whidh i can feel  the reality-

what is reality? am still lost in the middle of america -metaphoric more

than real, as i am in the midst of not of west but new england....by

which  return is by train is desolate plains with distant mountains in

the backgrorund... (aware of typos, just dooj't  care)

no words

no wish to seek out memory

memory is flawed beyond the memory of past and long term past..

no memory

or words to prompt memory

lost soul

don't send a quick memory trick

or drug

alone alone alone alone

we are born (in my case to an incubator) alone

and notwishstanding bardos,

still   believe we die alone

alone

alone

alone

my toiiet has just been unnplugged.

i will treeasuure it' s unplllugging

sarah who came with plunnger

alone

in the dark

with shit  pouurijg out of the hole

of the toilet

no shit pours from me, leaving me stuck in the moment-

sarah, serephin of plunger, i give thanks to you..

something is broken

broken

it is not the toilet

it is me

and no sarah with pllunger can save mme

goodnighmc

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:44:29 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Organization: smiling small thoughts

Subject:      Re: no words

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Marie Countryman wrote:

>

> no words, no soul no hearbeat within in whidh i can feel  the reality-

> what is reality? am still lost in the middle of america -metaphoric more

> than real, as i am in the midst of not of west but new england....by

> which  return is by train is desolate plains with distant mountains in

> the backgrorund... (aware of typos, just dooj't  care)

> no words

> no wish to seek out memory

> memory is flawed beyond the memory of past and long term past..

> no memory

> or words to prompt memory

> lost soul

> don't send a quick memory trick

> or drug

> alone alone alone alone

> we are born (in my case to an incubator) alone

> and notwishstanding bardos,

> still   believe we die alone

> alone

> alone

> alone

> my toiiet has just been unnplugged.

> i will treeasuure it' s unplllugging

> sarah who came with plunnger

> alone

> in the dark

> with shit  pouurijg out of the hole

> of the toilet

> no shit pours from me, leaving me stuck in the moment-

> sarah, serephin of plunger, i give thanks to you..

> something is broken

> broken

> it is not the toilet

> it is me

> and no sarah with pllunger can save mme

> goodnighmc

 

3-30-1994

Home Office

4321 7th Avenue

Rock Island Illinois

7:06 a.m.

 

NO MORE WORDS

 

What does a poet do when there is nothing left to write.

When the terrors and horrors in his soul

defy expression

when the joys and ecstasies

of love

go far beyond the power of words

What does a poet do then?

I sit and hope that

the terrors and horrors

are merely figments

of my overactive imagination.

I sit and hope that

the joys and ecstasies

will remain with me eternally

and I begin to

listen more closely to others

and I begin to

practice the poetic art

of staying quiet

of silence

golden silence

hearing a pin drop

in the next room

hearing the cries for freedom

from another continent far away

hearing the pain and agony

of an abused woman across town

hearing the reality

of the world

which I have fled

and escaped from for so long

and this time

I must face reality

squarely

and not flinch

and not back down

relieve myself of

all my cowardice

and through all the frightful moments

maintain

hope and faith

and above all

a serenity

which relates to the state of mind

we call

peaceful.

 

copyright 3-30-1994 david b. rhaesa

 

marie your title reminded me of this oldie. david

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:19:20 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         john boggs <jaboggs@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: sturm und drang

Content-Type: text/plain

 

sara asked-

 

 

 

>But seriously, has anyone ever read any of the German Sturm und Drang

>literature? Like _Die Leiden des Jungen Werthers_ (or in English _The

>Sorrows of Young Werther_)? That book was Beat 200 years before Beat.

It

>is as beautiful as On the Road, as ugly and as gorgeous as Howl. Has

>anyone else read any Sturm und Drang? What's your take on it?

>                        --Sara

>

i read the sorrows of young werther about 4 months ago when my fiance

abruptly broke up with me. it, along with ginsberg, helped keep me sane

after i hit rock bottom. tremendous stuff indeed...goethe delt with some

of the same ideas found in the beats and was as fully alive as they

were. he, too, had a capacity to feel profound emotions. thank you

bringing the connection between goethe and the beats fully to my

attention, it has provided me with some interesting ideas to ponder.

 

               -john b

              ----------------------------------------------------

                ...allegories are so much lettuce

                     Don't hide the madness.

 

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:46:34 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Organization: smiling small thoughts

Subject:      Last Time I committed Suicide: The Prologue

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"Some believe Neal Cassady to be the real genius behind the beat

movement.

 

"His persona and free-flowing letters have been the inspiration of

authors such as Jack Kerouac and songwriters like Jerry Garcia of the

Grateful Dead.

 

"The 'Aviator of American Hipness', Neal Cassady became legendary from a

series of cross country adventures, his unique ability to con strangers

and his inability to turn down a good time . . . .

 

"A man's life is merely a collection of events building one upon the

other.  When all the events are tallied - the triumphs; the failures;

the mistakes; their sum makes up the man.

 

"These are but a few events in the life of 'Superman.'

 

The movie follows ......

 

1)  The movie cannot make ANY sense without a deep understanding of

these preliminary remarks.  Absent an understanding of the frame of

reference, the terministic screens fixed by the above words any notions

about the film seem rather absurd.

 

2)  The Legend of Cassady preceded his coming to New York in On the

Road.  I had asked on the List for any information about the legends

attributed to Hal Chase (Harr????) by Jack Kerouac in the opening pages

of On the Road with no reply.  It seems that such grapevine attributions

of the legend which preceded Neal would hardly be accurate but would

likely be much more tales of Denver very similar to those depicted in

the film.

 

And so this film is only about one event, one letter -- important but

only minutely in understanding Neal.  It seems a wonderful jumping off

point for FFC's treatment of On the Road.

 

I will digress and mention something about FFC's On the Road before

closing.  It seems to me that the style of cinematic writing which Jack

employs in Doctor Sax should first be used to translate On the Road.

Whereever possible the voice recordings of Jack reading from On the Road

or other readings which fit in should be background with almost silent

movie action occurring on the screen. And the movie should be preceded

by several shorts of the 3 stooges. :)!:)!

 

dbr

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 00:22:34 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUNET.YU>

Subject:      Re: "Sturm und Drang" and Beat

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Sara Feustle wrote:

>

> Well, IDDHI, as Goethe once said, "Leck mich am Arsch!"

>

> But seriously, has anyone ever read any of the German Sturm und Drang

> literature? Like _Die Leiden des Jungen Werthers_ (or in English _The

> Sorrows of Young Werther_)? That book was Beat 200 years before Beat. It

> is as beautiful as On the Road, as ugly and as gorgeous as Howl. Has

> anyone else read any Sturm und Drang? What's your take on it?

>                         --Sara

 

i always thought that 'werther' is tooo pathetic. 'the faust' is too

important. but, heine writes beautiful poetry.

 

oh, yes, speaking of homosexuality, i read that it was discovered that

goethe and shiller had 'an intimate relationship'.

 

btw, what actually is considered sturm and drang?

 

ksenija

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 00:01:49 -0600

Reply-To:     cawilkie@comic.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>

Subject:      maggie cassidy

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i heard somewhere (can't remember now where) that kerouac went back to

lowell for a visit when he was getting into his alcoholic phase, and

that he went to visit 'maggie cassidy' (mary carney????) after not

seeing her for over ten years, and that he was drunk when he went to

visit her.

 

can anyone out there provide more details?  I"d be interested in how she

reacted to a drunken jack after all those years...

 

cathy

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 00:14:21 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Skau <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>

Subject:      Re: sturm und drang

In-Reply-To:  <19980127051921.26221.qmail@hotmail.com>

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"But then they danced down the street like dingledodies, and I shambled

after as I've been doing all my life after people who interest me, because

the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad

to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the

ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like

fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and

in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes 'Awww!'

WHAT DID THEY CALL SUCH YOUNG PEOPLE IN GOETHE'S GERMANY?"

_On the Road_, p. 8 (Upper case emphasis of last sentence my own)

Mike Skau

 

On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, john boggs wrote:

 

> sara asked-

>

>

>

> >But seriously, has anyone ever read any of the German Sturm und Drang

> >literature? Like _Die Leiden des Jungen Werthers_ (or in English _The

> >Sorrows of Young Werther_)? That book was Beat 200 years before Beat.

> It

> >is as beautiful as On the Road, as ugly and as gorgeous as Howl. Has

> >anyone else read any Sturm und Drang? What's your take on it?

> >                        --Sara

> >

> i read the sorrows of young werther about 4 months ago when my fiance

> abruptly broke up with me. it, along with ginsberg, helped keep me sane

> after i hit rock bottom. tremendous stuff indeed...goethe delt with some

> of the same ideas found in the beats and was as fully alive as they

> were. he, too, had a capacity to feel profound emotions. thank you

> bringing the connection between goethe and the beats fully to my

> attention, it has provided me with some interesting ideas to ponder.

>

>                -john b

>               ----------------------------------------------------

>                 ...allegories are so much lettuce

>                      Don't hide the madness.

>

>

> ______________________________________________________

> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:15:48 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RoadSide6 <RoadSide6@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Some help please

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Yeah, I know I am the millionth person to ask, but could someone please

forward me info on unsubscribing?

 

Gracias

Much appreciated

Blah blah blah

 

LD

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 00:49:21 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Skau <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>

Subject:      Burroughs typos

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Neil,

The article of mine to which Jeff Taylor was referring is "The Central

Verbal System: The Prose of William Burroughs"; it was published in the

scholarly periodical _Style_ 15.4 (Fall 1981): 401-414. In the section

from which Jeff quoted, I go on to illustrate my point:

"Burroughs also refuses to correct typographical errors in his prose;

thus, the misspellings and typographical peculiarities in his volume

_Time_ follow a prefatory letter allegedly from the publisher claiming:

'There are no typographical errors in this edition.'[Footnote] These

errata comprise further assaults on verbal control, with Burroughs in one

instance even applauding the felicitous quality of one of his mistakes:

"That is why the habit, once contracted, is so difficult to break, and why

it leaves, when broken suck* a vacuum behind. (*A slip but what a succinct

expression of the oral basis of addiction, the horror of oral deprivation

of 'sucking a vacuum.')' (_White Subway_ 11)." (p. 404)

Hope this helps.

Cordially,

Mike Skau

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 00:24:07 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: maggie cassidy

Comments: To: cawilkie@comic.net

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>i heard somewhere (can't remember now where) that kerouac went back to

>lowell for a visit when he was getting into his alcoholic phase, and

>that he went to visit 'maggie cassidy' (mary carney????) after not

>seeing her for over ten years, and that he was drunk when he went to

>visit her.

>

>can anyone out there provide more details?  I"d be interested in how she

>reacted to a drunken jack after all those years...

>

>cathy

 

Actually the recent biography called Angel Headed Hipster says a lot more

than this.  It claims that he continued a relationship with Mary Carney for

a number of years after he left Lowel and that he even was the real father

of her daughter.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:19:34 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Lust of the flesh, ignorant craving

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

First off we have discussed the First Noble Truth:

(I really enjoyed everyone's posts on this subject)

 

All Life is Suffering

 

and compared with:

 

Rom. 8:22   For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in

pain together until now.

 

The second is:

 

Suffering is caused by desire  (or craving)

 

How does this correspond with:

 

1John 2:16   For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the

lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of

the world.

 

How similar are ignorant craving of the second Noble truth and the lusts of

the flesh of the new testament?

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:20:36 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nils-Oivind Haagensen <Nils-Oivind.Haagensen@LILI.UIB.NO>

Subject:      another kerouac dream, marie

In-Reply-To:  <"noralf.uib.875:27.01.98.05.15.10"@uib.no>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

had a dream lst night where i stumbled upon

a kerouac sale in some nameless

bookstore, they had books on and by him i've

never seen or heard of

so i start to pick out titles

some guy is actually helping me

for some reason

throwing me books

then as things got a little crazy

i noticed my notebooks, my own private

dirty notebooks and old letters

were on sale too, so now i'm trying to pick out

th beat-g and jack k. stuff i haven't read

before and at the same time trying to keep

the notebooks and letters to myself.

it's awful

then it changes

real sudden and i'm at a lecture on jack k.

and the prof. whos just released a book

with pictures of jack k. asks the class

what picture they would like him

to go on about in detail

what picture of jack k. that is

someone says: all of them

everybody laughs

then someone else is real specific

this and that picture on page so and so

ev'body finds it, the prof. finds it

nods says something like "great choice"

but i'm in trouble

i'm thumbing trough the book

not finding anyone even resembling jack k.

looking at the others

who's now getting into it

thumbing through the book again

but no luck

n i wake up

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 07:22:31 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sara Feustle <sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>

Subject:      Re: sturm und drang

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.ULT.3.96.980127000706.5456B-100000@cwis.unomaha.edu>

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Yes!!! Exactly... That passage is the soul and essence of Sturm und Drang.

Sturm und Drang means "Storm and Stress." The period was known for it's

emphasis on the irrational, on emotions, on extreme beauty and extreme

ugliness. I wonder how familiar Kerouac was with Sturm und Drang...

Apparently he had at least some familiarity with it. The parallels are

just beautiful...

 

                         Sara Feustle

                    sfeustl@uoft02.utoledo.edu

                      Cronopio, cronopio?

 

 

On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Michael Skau wrote:

 

> "But then they danced down the street like dingledodies, and I shambled

> after as I've been doing all my life after people who interest me, because

> the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad

> to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the

> ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like

> fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and

> in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes 'Awww!'

> WHAT DID THEY CALL SUCH YOUNG PEOPLE IN GOETHE'S GERMANY?"

> _On the Road_, p. 8 (Upper case emphasis of last sentence my own)

> Mike Skau

>

> On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, john boggs wrote:

>

> > sara asked-

> >

> >

> >

> > >But seriously, has anyone ever read any of the German Sturm und Drang

> > >literature? Like _Die Leiden des Jungen Werthers_ (or in English _The

> > >Sorrows of Young Werther_)? That book was Beat 200 years before Beat.

> > It

> > >is as beautiful as On the Road, as ugly and as gorgeous as Howl. Has

> > >anyone else read any Sturm und Drang? What's your take on it?

> > >                        --Sara

> > >

> > i read the sorrows of young werther about 4 months ago when my fiance

> > abruptly broke up with me. it, along with ginsberg, helped keep me sane

> > after i hit rock bottom. tremendous stuff indeed...goethe delt with some

> > of the same ideas found in the beats and was as fully alive as they

> > were. he, too, had a capacity to feel profound emotions. thank you

> > bringing the connection between goethe and the beats fully to my

> > attention, it has provided me with some interesting ideas to ponder.

> >

> >                -john b

> >               ----------------------------------------------------

> >                 ...allegories are so much lettuce

> >                      Don't hide the madness.

> >

> >

> > ______________________________________________________

> > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

> >

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:41:19 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      backbeat

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

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bob kaufman

 

SLIGHT ALTERATIONS

 

I climb a red thread

To an unseen exixtence,

Broken free, somewhere,

Beyond the belts.

 

Ticks have abandoned

My astonished time.

The air littered

with demolished hours.

 

Presence abolished

I become a ray

>From the sun

Anonymous finger

Deflected into hungry windows

Boomerang of curved light

Ricocheted off dark walls

The ceiling remembers my face

The floor is a palate of surprise

Watching me eat the calendar

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:15:10 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: no words

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i just consulted with emily post, and with bill's 'scope' in mind, i

must apologize. that was in a drafts folder, not mail. dunno what

happened, but i have realized a truth:

 

when one is having a public mental

brake down

one should drive in the slow lane,

as far away from the send button as possible.

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:33:09 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         paul caspers <caspers@WORLDONLINE.NL>

Subject:      buk

Mime-Version: 1.0

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hi all,

 

'the captain is out to lunch and the sailors have taken over the ship'

 

by buk, february 1 release date.... anyone know what exactly this is? poems?

stories? poems+stories? novel? whatever... if anyone who knows could mail

privately i'd appreciate it cos i'm pretty curious and off the list... thanks !

paul

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:06:37 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Organization: smiling small thoughts

Subject:      Re: Lust of the flesh, ignorant craving

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Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:

>

> First off we have discussed the First Noble Truth:

> (I really enjoyed everyone's posts on this subject)

>

> All Life is Suffering

>

> and compared with:

>

> Rom. 8:22   For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in

> pain together until now.

>

> The second is:

>

> Suffering is caused by desire  (or craving)

>

> How does this correspond with:

>

> 1John 2:16   For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the

> lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of

> the world.

>

> How similar are ignorant craving of the second Noble truth and the lusts of

> the flesh of the new testament?

 

the source of the new testament writing here is quite different than

that of Romans.  Saul/Paul is just a beat dude who had an epiphany.  The

Gospel of John is a slightly different matter.  The Book of John IMHO is

by far the most interesting book in the colelction we call the Bible.

It begins with the Logos and it seems that this connects with some of

the questions concerning WSB's theories concerning Word as a Virus.

What we get in translation as "The Word" is in the Greek "Logos" but

this was a far more holistic term than mere logic and contained

something similar to the many sides of beat and beatific in its

difficulty to pin down in translation.  It is perhaps the ultimate of

the viral that the symbol of Logos has been translated to Word even

capitalized.

 

just a preliminary thought,

dbr

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:53:27 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Edward Desautels <edesaute@BBNPLANET.COM>

Subject:      Where's the beef? (was: Re: beat weekend)

Mime-Version: 1.0

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I find it rather amusing that folks in this listserv are offering up tips on=

 "how to be Beat." It reminds me of that old Saturday Night Live skit in=

 which a group of muchachos sat around debating, "Quien es muy macho?" I'm=

 not sure this line of discussion is of much value.=20

 

 

Indeed, I would argue that, much like concepts such as "cool" or "punk" or=

 "existentialist," the concept of "Beat" has been bled dry of anything=

 resembling Kerouac's genuine experience of it. After all, we even had=

 Mayard G. Krebs back in the late 50s satirizing Beat, 60s hippies latching=

 on to nothing but its most superficial aspects, and 90s grundge kids=

 reducing the concept the mere prefacing of every sentence with the word=

 "like."

 

 

What's even more interesting is that, while folks are pondering whether it's=

 more Beat to be "doing" rather than "reading" (is reading not doing?),=

 there's a curious absence of desire to plumb the literature itself ("I had=

 previously tried to read "The Wild Boys" and couldn't get into it...")=

 unless it's of the most accessible nature (Junky, Caroline Cassidy's=

 efforts).=20

 

 

While the ephemera of Beat has either fallen by the wayside or become=

 laughably dated ("...I'm  totally digging this groove..."), the=

 _literature_ remains. It's a literature made by people who considered=

 themselves members of no school but whom, through perversions of media, the=

 academy, and the sheep who accept both unquestioningly, were pigeonholed=

 into one. Despite the attempts of the media and academy to force these=

 writers into space in which they could be stripped of their dignity, this=

 literature survives and truly is worthy of our serious consideration.

 

 

It was my (erroneous?) presumption that this discussion group was set up for=

 this very purpose, as a forum for the discussion of (so-called, but for=

 lack of a better term) Beat literature. In the hopes of stirring up some=

 worthwhile discussion, I'm posting the paper below for=

 review/comment/attack/etc.=20

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Ed

 

 

Appropriation and Transmogrification

 

in William S. Burroughs=92 _Exterminator!_

 

 

 

 

" . . . Everything belongs to the inspired and dedicated thief.  All the=

 artists of history, from cave painters to Picasso, all the poets and=

 writers, the musicians and architects, offer their wares, importuning him=

 like street vendors . . . . Mais le voleur n=92est pas press=E9=97the thief=

 is in no hurry.  He must assure himself of the merchandise and its=

 suitability for his purpose before he conveys the supreme honor and=

 benediction of his theft."

 

        =97William S. Burroughs, Les Voleurs  (Burroughs 1985, p. 21)

 

 

 

 

        William Burroughs has not been reticent to discuss the ethic of=

 appropriation that informs his work.  Implicit in this ethic is the notion=

 of an illicit, illegal act which, when applied to his processes of writing=

 fiction, inspires criticism that dismisses his work as mere "plumbing" or=

 strident accusations of out-and-out plagiarism.  Burroughs, however, has=

 countered:  "Words don=92t have brands on them the way cattle do . . . .=

 Ever heard of a word rustler?" (Morgan 1988, p. 323).  Despite this line of=

 defense, it is not difficult to view Burroughs as something of a literary=

 thief; a thief who skillfully doubles as his own fence between the loot and=

 his fiction.  It is in this role as fence that Burroughs disguises his=

 loot; reshapes and recasts it; grinds off the serial numbers, as it were,=

 to obscure the traces of its original ownership.  He transforms this=

 literary plunder and makes it his own. =20

 

        This process of appropriation and transformation=97and with Burroughs=

 transformation may be better read as transmogrification=97is very much=

 evident in his collection of short fiction Exterminator!   Nearly every=

 page contains a character, a setting, a genre; a news report, a magazine=

 advertisement, a political figure or speech=97something  the reader has=

 come across before.  Burroughs has slipped deft fingers into the pockets of=

 literature, film, history, art, and popular culture without discrimination.=

  Though recognizable as artifacts, these elements have been pieced together=

 in works that often appear fractured to the point of incomprehensibility or=

 which devolve into graphic depictions of a violent, explosive anarchy.  To=

 argue that such a prose style is intended to reflect the author=92s=

 perception of a world in which control systems have run amok may be a valid=

 enterprise.  Such an argument, however, seems unsatisfying and facile,=

 particularly if one is interested in moving beyond the critic Anatole=

 Broyard=92s characterization of Burroughs as "the grand guru of the fictive=

 put-on," whose Exterminator!  is nothing more than "a stale replay of Dr.=

 Strangelove " (Morgan 1988, p. 469).

 

        Moving beyond such a dismissal, however, is no easy task with a work such=

 as Exterminator!   Indeed, few have attempted to crack the nut of=

 Burroughs=92 fiction.  Burroughs himself has commented on the difficulty=

 his work presents and asserts that what he=92s attempting is to "create=

 multilevel events and characters that a reader could comprehend with his=

 entire organic being" (Odier 1974, p. 35).  Clearly, the manner in which=

 Burroughs intends his work to be received is not one with which many=

 readers are familiar or, perhaps, comfortable.

 

        Despite the formidable nature of Burroughs=92 prose, it may be possible, at=

 least, to break through the crust in order to come to some insights and=

 conclusions regarding the nature and purpose of its "multilevel" approach. =

 An examination of the appropriated material with which the text is=

 composed; of the appearance and reappearance of this material; and of=

 Burroughs=92 subversion of it can, I believe, provide one means of getting=

 beneath the text=92s seemingly chaotic surface.  By so doing, this paper=

 seeks to uncover an undercurrent of unity in which are developed such=

 themes as obsession with control, addiction, hypocrisy, and, the quest for=

 self.  Attention will be focused on Burroughs=92 appropriation and=

 subversion of traditional literary genres including autobiography, the=

 dimestore detective novel, the science fiction adventure, the spy novel,=

 and the Christmas tale.  Also considered will be the use made by Burroughs=

 of the advertising rhythms of the unsolicited testimonial as well as the=

 format of the Vaudeville routine. =20

 

 

=09

 

        "When someone asks me to what extent my work is autobiographical, I say,=

 =91Every word is autobiographical, and every word is fiction=92" (Bockris=

 1981, p. 28).  This assertion by Burroughs is sometimes clearly evident in=

 his work and such is the case in the title story, "Exterminator!"  In=

 "Exterminator" (the collection=92s introductory piece), Burroughs=

 appropriates the autobiographical details of his work, in 1942,  for the A.=

 J. Cohen Exterminators he describes in the piece.  These he blends with a=

 further appropriation:  the sparse prose style of the dimestore detective=

 novel.  The latter element lends to the piece a humorous, "hard-boiled pest=

 control agent" sensibility:

 

 

A fat smiling Chinese rationed out the pyrethrum powder=97it was hard to get=

 during the war=97and cautioned us to use flouride whenever possible. =

 Personally I prefer a pyrethrum job to a flouride (p. 4).=20

 

 

 

Burroughs=92 intent, however, seems to go beyond that of merely offering the=

 reader a humorous vignette based upon his work as an exterminator.  Rather,=

 he uses his experiences as a foundation on which is built a matrix of=

 satire and metaphor that establishes the tone for the entire collection. =

 For instance, the cockroach=97an image already heavily freighted with=

 metaphorical implications in twentieth century literature=97is exploited by=

 Burroughs in a way that contemporizes the imagery and carries the piece=

 beyond the familiar and the autobiographical.  Consider the sense of=

 insidious bigotry conveyed in the following exchange:

 

 

"Is it roaches Mrs. Murphy?"

 

"It is that from those Jews downstairs."

 

"Or is it the hunkeys next door Mrs. Murphy?"

 

She shrugs "Sure and an Irish cockroach is as bad as another."

 

"You make a nice cup of tea Mrs. Murphy . . . ."  (p. 5).

 

 

 

Mrs. Murphy goes on to report to the exterminator that the exterminators=

 sent by the city only left a white powder (flouride) that "draws roaches=

 the way whiskey will draw a priest" (p. 5).   Here, again, the humor masks=

 deeper metaphorical issues.  The roaches, objects of loathing, are always=

 attributed by Mrs. Murphy to the "other."  They=92ve infested her apartment=

 because of the Jews, hunkeys, city exterminators, etc.  What, perhaps, this=

 externalization and scapegoating truly represents is the deep-seated self=

 -loathing of the bigot.=20

 

        In "Exterminator!", however, Burroughs moves beyond this familiar=

 metaphorical ground and weights the creature=97in light of its ability to=

 develop a tolerance for the pesticides directed at it=97with connotations=

 of drug addiction:  "The roaches build up a tolerance and become addicted. =

 They can be dangerous if the flouride is suddenly withdrawn" (p. 5).  Thus,=

 the addicted roach develops a paradoxical dependence on the services of the=

 flouride-dispensing exterminator.  The exterminator, like a ruthless=

 pusher, holds in reserve his "hot shot," the pyrethrum powder, and can=

 dispose of the addict whenever he sees fit.  Thus, the cockroach=92s=

 tolerance for poison becomes a contemporary metaphor for the complex,=

 mutually parasitic relationship between addict and pusher.  When the pusher=

 withholds his product, the addict "becomes dangerous."  The pusher raises=

 his price.  Eventually, the addict cannot afford the poison he craves and=

 becomes a liability to the pusher who is always ready to deliver the final=

 fix, the "hot shot."

 

        As the exterminator relates his experiences with the A. J. Cohen company,=

 the focus increasingly turns away from the insects and toward the people he=

 meets and for whom he works.  From his observations, it becomes clear that=

 what the exterminator is really concerned with is the two-legged  vermin=

 scurrying near the brown cracks in the wall.=20

 

 

 

        In "The Lemon Kid," Burroughs carries on with the appropriation of=

 autobiographical material and introduces Audrey Carsons, the persona who=

 appears from time to time throughout the collection as a point of contact;=

 a tour guide for the reader making his way through the world of=

 Exterminator!  Unlike Hemingway's youthful Nick Adams, however, Audrey is=

 in some ways flamboyant and in others vaporously intangible.   Burroughs=

 adapts Audrey as he sees fit, turning him into something of a chameleon=

 through which he establishes the theme of the search for an elusive=

 identity or self.  Doubts and insecurities are the signposts in this search=

 and Audrey's reaction to them involves the construction of defense=

 mechanisms through writing.  He pens a story titled "Autobiography of a=

 Wolf," just as did an eight-year-old Billy Burroughs who suffered a similar=

 dilemma in establishing an identity (Morgan 1988).  Audrey also creates the=

 character of Jerry, "The Lemon Kid," who serves a dual role of alter ego=

 and homosexual lover.  Audrey enlists Jerry, through his writing, as a=

 means by which to strike back at a society that has made him to feel like=

 "a sheep-killing dog" (p. 10).  In a wildly humorous succession of events,=

 we see Jerry earn his nickname, avenging Audrey against his tormentors=

 (including an orchestra playing at a George Wallace rally) by sucking on a=

 lemon.  The effect is withering and the orchestra crumbles in "a crescendo=

 of sour notes from sax and horns" (p. 11).  Though farcical, Burroughs is=

 using these characters to point up the elements of society that bother him:=

  the Wallace segregationists, gay bashers, flag wavers, bible beaters, and=

 CIA agents (to name a few).  He establishes his presence in the collection=

 through the fictional character of Audrey who, in turn, creates a character=

 to avenge his tormentors.  The lines between literature and life begin to=

 blur lending an eerie quality of warning to the line:  "When the Kid puts=

 the lemon on you you are through in show biz" (p. 12).

 

        Thus, in the opening stories "Exterminator!" and "The Lemon Kid," Burroughs=

 not only mines autobiographical material, but reshapes, subverts, and=

 explodes it in order to establish the themes and the narrative voice that=

 will dominate the collection.  These stories establish the pattern of=

 appropriation remarked on earlier; a pattern that continues with the story=

 "Astronaut=92s Return."

 

        As the title suggests, "Astronaut's Return" is characterized by Burroughs=

=92 appropriation of the science fiction genre.  Rather than concentrating=

 on the familiar aspects of outer space and interplanetary travel, however,=

 Burroughs turns the genre on end and portrays the astronaut exploring his=

 inner  space; probing his conscious which, presumably, has been altered by=

 virtue of his extraterrestrial travel. =20

 

        The introspection of the astronaut continues the theme of the search for=

 self introduced in "The Lemon Kid."  This theme is woven into a personal=

 anthropology in which the astronaut postulates a virus passed down through=

 the descendants of "the cave-dwelling albinos . . . the present inhabitants=

 of America and western Europe" (p. 23).   The astronaut muses that this=

 virus is "what Freud calls the unconscious" and that it manifests its=

 symptoms in a destructive inability to mind one=92s own business:  "They=

 had no business of their own to mind because they didn=92t belong to=

 themselves anymore" (p. 24).   The story ends with a question that=

 reiterates this notion of estrangement from self:  "Do you begin to see=

 there is no face in the tarnished mirror?" (p. 27).   This question can be=

 read, it seems, not only as a rhetorical question posed by the astronaut,=

 but also as a revelation about the narrative voice.  As the collection=

 unfolds, this question and the image of the absent face reoccur and the=

 notion conveyed is that of a narrator searching=97in these disparate,=

 fragmented stories riddled with dead ends and false starts=97for the voice=

 that will allow him to tell his story.  Thus, the postmodern aesthetic of=

 narrator-as-subject is introduced.  From this perspective, the narrator=

 assumes a major unifying role in the collection.

 

        "My Face" picks up where "Astronaut=92s Return" leaves off, the=

 astronaut/narrator again preoccupied with a search for self.  He is=20

 

=20

 

. . . concerned with the possibility of taking over a young body I would=

 wake up stretch and look in the mirror the lookout different enough of=

 other thoughts and feelings left to make it a really new you . . .  (p.=

 28).

 

 

 

The theme, here, is expressed in a choppy prose style, devoid of=

 punctuation, into which the narrator falls, from time to time, throughout=

 the collection.  This prose can be viewed as expressive of an insecure,=

 fragmented identity; an identity unable to express itself in whole,=

 complete, logical sentences.  Tied to this sense of insecurity and=

 fragmentation, as expressed in the above quote, is the element of=

 self-loathing touched upon in "Exterminator!"  Rather than project this=

 self-loathing, as did Mrs. Murphy through her bigotry and intolerance for=

 others, the narrator in this piece expresses a desire to become  the other.=

  "My Face" is replete with the imagery of the face, the lack of face, and=

 of the mirrors introduced in "Astronaut=92s Return" and, as if in answer to=

 the question posed at the end of that story, there is the following,=

 equivocal reply:  "I was looking at my face in the mirror my new face . . .=

 . In fact, I would hesitate to say it was a face at all" (p. 30).

 

 

 

        Conspiracies, intrigue, the "secret agent," the CIA operative=97all of=

 these elements common to the spy novel make their way into the fabric of=

 Exterminator!    Where they appear, however, the intrigue is never defined=

 or motivated.  Rather, it is merely suggested through the clich=E9s of the=

 genre.  Further, one is never quite certain regarding the question of which=

 characters play the role of hero and which the role of villain.  Burroughs=

 does not seem intent on using the genre to develop a character or his=

 narrator or to portray an event in his appropriations of the spy novel=

 genre.  Rather, Burroughs appears to use them as devices for interjecting a=

 mood  of shadowy power plays unfolding behind the scenes out of which are=

 composed the other stories in the collection.

 

        In "End of the Line," Burroughs presents us with Agent W.E.9 who is=

 involved in an incomprehensible scheme to end the harassment by "Arab=

 subjects" that has driven his assistant and technician to the verge of=

 collapse.  In order to do so, he searches for a writer who "wrote Arabic,=

 who also knew English, and would be capable of translating Mr. P=92s=

 continuity into Arabic characters, and passing along through channels" (p.=

 46).  (Note the echo, here, of "The Lemon Kid" in which there is also the=

 quest for a writer to avenge an unpleasant set of circumstances.)  The=

 narrator later mentions "a list of agents who had been murdered because=

 they might learn to read and write Arabic . . ." and thereby conveys the=

 notion that language is alive with a special power over which the agents of=

 many flags are contending.

 

        "Twighlight's Last Gleamings" again demonstrates Burroughs appropriation of=

 the spy novel genre, this time undermining the usual gravity that=

 characterizes this form.  A group of conspirators including "a folksy=

 meteorologist, an embittered homosexual, a Chinese camera man, and a Negro=

 castrated in his cradle by rat bites" plot to blow up a train carrying=

 nerve gas (p. 85).  They are pursued by an FBI agent whose "investigations=

 are handicapped by his belief that the conspiracy is political" (p. 86). =

 Though ostensibly a farce, "Twighlight=92s last Gleamings" is built upon a=

 foundation of biting satire pointed at the hypocritical, ugly side of=

 America that would "turn the clock back to 1899 when a silver dollar bought=

 a good meal or a good piece of ass" (p. 86).

 

 

 

        The rhythms and form of advertising copy inform "The Discipline of DE," a=

 piece that explains and extolls the technique of "Do Easy."  The piece can,=

 on the surface, be read as a pastiche.   On closer reading, I believe, a=

 self-referential quality  is manifest by which Burroughs (or, perhaps more=

 precisely, his narrative voice) offers insights and advice  as to how to go=

 about reading Exterminator!    By the time the reader has arrived at "The=

 Discipline of DE," he has been guided through a bewildering number of=

 situations, plots, characters, and settings all offered up by a narrator=

 seemingly unsure of his identity.  For the reader who may be feeling lost=

 at this stage of the collection, Burroughs appears to proffer the following=

 advice:

 

 

Get back on course and do it again.  How can you pilot a spacecraft if you=

 can=92t find your way around your own apartment?  It=92s just like retaking=

 a movie shot until you get it right.  And you will begin to feel yourself=

 in a film moving with ease and speed (p. 60).

 

 

 

Burroughs seems to acknowledge, in this passage, the difficulty his writing=

 presents for the reader accustomed to more familiar literary traditions. =

 The advice, perhaps, is to relax and read the work again; keep reading it=

 until the new becomes familiar.  Perhaps, in this way, Burroughs hopes the=

 work will have its effect on the reader=92s "entire being" as mentioned=

 earlier.

 

 

 

        In Writing for Vaudeville, Brett Page defines the Vaudeville sketch as:

 

 

a simple narrative or a character sketch . . . having little or no definite=

 plot . . . depending on effective incidents for its appeal, rather than on=

 the singleness of effect of a problem solved by character revelation and=

 change (Page 1915, p. 150).

 

 

 

Earlier in his book, Page also discusses the elements of humor in the=

 Vaudeville sketch=97incongruity, surprise, situation, "pure wit," and=

 character=97that combine to form "the expression of the individuality of =

 the person voicing [the laughable utterances]" (Page 1915, p. 71).   I=

 include these definitions because, unlike the genres of autobiography, the=

 dimestore detective novel, the science fiction adventure, or the spy novel,=

 the modern reader is unlikely to be familiar with characteristics common to=

 the Vaudeville routine,  a genre employed frequently by Burroughs  in=

 Exterminator!  "The Perfect Servant," "Exterminator," "Twighlight's Last=

 Gleamings," and "What Washington?  What orders?" all contain passages=

 informed by the Vaudeville routine.  Burroughs often goes so far as to=

 break his prose into dialogue lines and stage directions.  Perhaps the best=

 example in the collection of his appropriation of the Vaudeville sketch is=

 the following passage from "Twighlight=92s Last Gleamings":

 

=09

 

        Cut to C.I.A. man pacing up and down in his office.  His name is Joe=

 Rogers.=09

 

        Rogers:  "I had a dream I tell you.  I saw the train go up and that gas=

 sweeping up the Eastern seaboard."

 

        His second in command Mr. Falk is inclined to be cynical and describes=

 himself as "a white collar bum who works for that crazy American=

 government."

 

        Falk:  "Are you going to tell the Chief about your dream, Joe?"

 

        Rogers (picking up phone):  "No but I=92m going to ask him for more=

 agents."

 

        Falk:  "Gotta stay ahead of the Commies or everybody=92s kids will be=

 learning Chinese."

 

        Rogers:  "If my hunch is correct there may not be any kids left to learn=

 anything" (p. 88).

 

 

 

The routine ends with the reappearance of Audrey Carsons in the role of the=

 script writer.  "You can put your clothes on now," he instructs Rogers and=

 Falk, " . . . And now let=92s see how fast you can run" (p. 89). =20

 

        The lack of regard for plot as outlined by Brett Page is clearly evident in=

 this passage.  Rather, Burroughs moves the piece along with the ironic=

 dialogue between Rogers and Falk, both of whom remain fairly undeveloped as=

 characters.  The "payoff," in which Audrey pops up out of nowhere as the=

 "script writer" who lets his actors know they may now dress themselves,=

 employs the elements of humor described by Page:  there is incongruity  in=

 the request by Rogers for more agents because he dreamt of a nerve gas=

 attack;  there is surprise  in the unexpected appearance of Audrey (which=

 can also be interpreted as incongruity); there is the play in the situation=

 between incongruity and surprise, i.e., Audrey=92s request that Rogers and=

 Falk get dressed; there is "pure wit"  (defined by Page as wit detachable=

 from its context) in Falk=92s self-characterization; and there is character=

  in Audrey=92s desire to see how fast they can run (while, presumably, he=

 reaches for a sidearm).

 

        Thus, a case can be made that Burroughs has lifted the genre of the=

 Vaudeville routine and incorporated it into his collection.  As with his=

 other appropriations of genre, however, he transmogrifies the Vaudeville=

 routine into something beyond the light entertainment it=92s intended to=

 be.  First, he uses the genre, in the above passage, to create the mood of=

 conspiracy and intrigue discussed earlier.  Second, Burroughs writes for=

 his characters a dialogue of pointed satire aimed at the American=

 preoccupation with the "red menace."  Third, in the passages that follow=

 and which continue in the Vaudeville vein, there is a descent into graphic=

 and explosive violence on a vast scale culminating in "an aerial view of=

 dead cities" (p. 92).  In short, Burroughs transforms the light, familiar,=

 comfortable entertainment of the Vaudeville routine into a bloody depiction=

 of the kind of ultra-violence from which (to complete the circle) people=

 escape into distractions such as the Vaudeville routine or its modern=

 equivalent:  the television sit-com.

 

 

 

        Burroughs leaves, it seems, no genre untouched in Exterminator!     In "The=

 =91Priest=92 They Called Him," he even goes so far as to appropriate the=

 Christmas tale.  Again, Burroughs not only lifts the genre, but subverts=

 and transforms it.  In this case, the reader is presented with a Christmas=

 story bereft of the usual trappings of Christmas trees and holiday feasts,=

 of Santa Claus and Scrooge.  Rather, Burroughs gives us an old junkie, a=

 young junkie, and a suitcase containing two dismembered legs=97hardly=

 images of holiday cheer.  Burroughs manages, however, to mold these=

 elements into a story that engenders sympathy for his characters, calls=

 into question commonly held notions of the "pernicious drug addict" as well=

 as the nature of saintliness, and points up the hollowness of Christmas in=

 the late twentieth century.  The twist, here, is that the old junkie, "The=

 Priest," makes a gift of last "quarter g," his long-overdue fix, to the=

 young man in the next apartment who became an addict, we learn, to fend off=

 the unendurable pain in legs that were crippled some time ago in an=

 accident.  The Priest realizes the boy is going through withdrawal:  "The=

 Priest stood there feeling  the boy groan" (p. 159).  He understands the=

 boy=92s suffering and, making the penultimate gesture for a junkie, offers=

 up his "quarter g" (bought with money obtained by hawking the suitcase=

 containing the dismembered legs) to ease the boy=92s suffering.  In the=

 end:

 

=20

 

. . . . He went back  to his room and sat down on the bed.  Then it hit him=

 like heavy silent snow, all the grey junk yesterdays.  He sat there and=

 received the immaculate fix  and since he was himself a priest there was no=

 need to call one.=20

 

 

 

Of all the stories in the collection, this one comes closest to the Poe=

 ideal of the well wrought tale.  All the elements in the story conspire to=

 bestow upon The Priest a quality of saintliness that cuts against accepted=

 attitudes toward the drug addict.  The effect is one common to many=

 Christmas tales:  we are reminded of the call for "peace on earth, good=

 will toward men," as well as of the beauty and joy of giving.  The=

 Burroughsian subversion, however, also comes to bear in the stories overall=

 effect as the reader, caught up in the sentiment of The Priest=92s=

 sacrifice, remembers:  Hey!  I=92m supposed to loath these characters.  The=

 reader=92s sense of moral judgement is thrown open to questioning and=

 introspection.

 

 

 

        From the foregoing examinations, it is clear that William Burroughs=92=

 fiction is a mixed bag of material, much of which=97as he intimates in the=

 passage from Les Voleurs =97is lifted from history, popular culture, and=

 other literary works.  This paper has examined merely one aspect of this=

 penchant of Burroughs=92 for theft=97his appropriation of disparate=

 genres=97because it is in his transmogrification of these genres that=

 Burroughs=92 themes and world view appear to emerge in Exterminator!  =

 Other strategies may also  have proven useful.  For instance, an=

 examination of instances of repetition may have provided insight into=

 Burroughs work.  In reading Exterminator!,  one is struck with the=

 recurrence of the number 23, of place names like St. Louis and Ladue Road,=

 and "the room with rose colored wallpaper."  It also may have proven useful=

 to examine the many instances in which "real life" characters=97Jean Genet,=

 George Wallace, Arthur Flegenheimer (aka the infamous gangster "Dutch=

 Schultz"),  and F. Scott Fitzgerald, to name a few, appear in the text in=

 an effort to determine their bearing on the collection.   Finally, it would=

 have been interesting to examine the instances where Burroughs blatantly=

 extracts passages from other of his works as well as from the works of=

 other writers.  The story "Short Trip Home," for instance, opens with a=

 direct quote  from the opening passage of F. Scott Fitzgerald=92s story "A=

 Short Trip Home."   Plumbing these lifted passages in light of their=

 placement in the text may also have proven useful in getting below the=

 fractured surface of Burroughs=92 prose.  I suggest these strategies in=

 order to stress that a non-linear, "multi-level" work such as Exterminator!=

  demands such vertical reading(s).    This paper has been one such attempt=

 at vertical reading and, I believe, has pointed out some of the unifying=

 elements of theme and voice in Exterminator!  But, perhaps, Burroughs=

 himself might argue that searching out unity or theme or voice in the=

 fiction of this collection is as useless as attempting to conceive of it in=

 traditional, linear terms.  After all, the critical wherewithal remains to=

 be developed for assessing a fiction designed to be received with one=92s=

 "entire organic being."=20

 

 

References

 

 

Bockris, V.  1981.  With William S. Burroughs:  A Report from the       Bunker. =

 New York:  Grove Press, Inc.

 

Burroughs, W. S.  1985.  The Adding Machine:  Selected Essays.  New     York: =

 Seaver Books.

 

Morgan, T.  1988.  Literary Outlaw:  The Life and Times of William S.=

        Burroughs.  New York:  Holt and Company.

 

Odier, D.  1974.  The Job:  Interviews with William S. Burroughs.  New=

        York:  Grove Press, Inc.

 

Page, B.  Writing for Vaudeville.  Springfield, MA:  The Home=

        Correspondence School.

 

 

 

 

 

 

At 07:57 PM 1/26/98 -0500, you wrote:

 

>I consider it very beat to just sit by my window, reading my books and

 

>smoking my cigarettes. There's more than one way to be beat, you know but

 

>I know what Mary means about doing too much reading and not enough doing,

 

>but sometimes, all you can do is read...

 

> On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Mary

 

>Maconnell wrote:

 

>

 

>> So aside from a party on Saturday night which I don't remember I ended up

 

>> finishing "Junky" and reading the whole of Carolyn Cassady's book, "Heart

 

>> Beat: My Life With Jack and Neal."  I really really really loved Junky=

 and

 

>> totally got into it and since I had previously tried to read "The Wild

 

>> Boys" and couldn't get into it I felt Burroughs was re-established as

 

>> a writer good and true in my eyes.  Carolyn's book was revealing to me

 

>> (as I didn't know she and Jack had an affair but I'm not surprised) and

 

>> was wondering what anyone else thought about it.

 

>>

 

>> So right now I'm reading "Jack's Book" (can't remember the author's name)

 

>> and "Tristessa" by Jack and totally digging this groove but can't help

 

>> but wonder if I'm doing too much reading and not enough _doing_ lately --

 

>> you know what I mean?

 

>>

 

>> Mary

 

>>

 

>

 

>The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

 

>Sure-JK

 

>

 

<center>************************************************************

 

Edward Desautels

 

7 Hamilton Road

 

Somerville, MA 02144

 

edesaute@bbnplanet.com

 

http://www.shore.net/~debra/ed/homepage.html

 

 

<smaller>"One day I found my shirt lying across my knees,=20

 

I called it Beauty. Since thenI've been a painter of shirts."

 

Jacques Rigaut

 

</smaller>************************************************************</cent=

er>

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:08:59 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>

Subject:      Re: another kerouac dream, marie

Mime-Version: 1.0

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     This reminds me of a dream I had of Ginsberg where my wife and I were

     supposed to meet him in the basement of a fire station (why, I have no

     idea) and when we sit down to talk to him he stands up and runs off.

     We end up in some sort of Keystone Kops chase with him around the

     streets of NYC.

 

     Why are the beats "eluding" us in our dreams?

 

     love and lilies,

 

     matt

 

 

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________

Subject: another kerouac dream, marie

Author:  "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> at Internet

Date:    1/27/98 1:20 PM

 

 

had a dream lst night where i stumbled upon

a kerouac sale in some nameless

bookstore, they had books on and by him i've

never seen or heard of

so i start to pick out titles

some guy is actually helping me

for some reason

throwing me books

then as things got a little crazy

i noticed my notebooks, my own private

dirty notebooks and old letters

were on sale too, so now i'm trying to pick out

th beat-g and jack k. stuff i haven't read

before and at the same time trying to keep

the notebooks and letters to myself.

it's awful

then it changes

real sudden and i'm at a lecture on jack k.

and the prof. whos just released a book

with pictures of jack k. asks the class

what picture they would like him

to go on about in detail

what picture of jack k. that is

someone says: all of them

everybody laughs

then someone else is real specific

this and that picture on page so and so

ev'body finds it, the prof. finds it

nods says something like "great choice"

but i'm in trouble

i'm thumbing trough the book

not finding anyone even resembling jack k.

looking at the others

who's now getting into it

thumbing through the book again

but no luck

n i wake up

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 07:47:49 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: beat weekend

Content-Type: text/plain

 

>i loaned my copy of Junky to a Junky in hopes that he might be willing

>to fight the borders of illiteracy he faced with a subject that he

could

>relate to.  it is my understanding that he did not read it and left it

>in a crackhouse somewhere.

>

damn junkies..

 

-greg

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:01:40 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mary Maconnell <MMACONNELL@MAIL.EWU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Where's the beef? (was: Re: beat weekend)

Comments: cc: edesaute@bbnplanet.com

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

 

Hey, Ed.

 

What I tried to get across (but obviously failed miserably) was that I had

not read Burroughs before and even though I couldn't get into The Wild Boys

doesn't mean that it's not a good book -- I personally needed something a

bit more accessible to let me into that Burroughs frame of mind.  Is there

anything wrong with that?  :)

 

Also, even though I love to read and would probably die if I couldn't, I

just felt that I hadn't been doing enough lately and reading to me is

experiencing the world through someone else's vision (again, I don't think

there's anything wrong with that either so long as that's not all a person

does).  The comment I made of not doing enough lately was made more

offhandedly and I did really want to discuss the books.

 

Aaaaah, literature.

 

Mary

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:45:16 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      finding the pony

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              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

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ok i think i need to make some coherence out of this, as i sent it to

y'all, i've broken the stream of consciousness into two separate items

(can't even begin to think of it as poetry, but it is an interesting

problem.

#1

no words

 

no words

no soul

no heartbeat

    within which i can feel the reality

whose reality?

i am still lost in the middle of america

    metaphorically speaking

i'm still on that train

    crossing desolate plains

outside my window is desolate new england

    groaning under winter.

 

no words

no wish to seek out memory to help search

    memory flawed and out of time

don't send me a quick memory trick

or drug

memory present memory past

    i wish to hold them fast

        unremembered and out of time

 

we are born (in my case, into a case, incubator)

alone

alone alone alone

and we die alone

alone

alone

 

i die each day a thousand deaths

    in the gaps between no words

        and and the birth pangs of words wishing to be born.

 

#2

 

ode to seraphins and toilets

 

my toilet is being unplugged

i will treasure its unplugging

and sarah, who weilds the plunger

while i sit, alone in the dark

while my shit goes down the pipe

while i sit,

        shit pouring out of me

leaving me alone

    and stuck in the moment.

 

sarah, seraphin of plunger,

i give thanks to you and your love

but something is broken

    it is not the toilet

it's me

and not even the seraphin sarah can fix me

i sit,

broken

alone in the dark

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:11:51 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      finding the pony

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

ok i think i need to make some coherence out of this, as i sent it to

y'all, i've broken the stream of consciousness into two separate

items (can't even begin to think of it as poetry, but it is an

interesting problem.

 

the orignal post:

 

 

Marie Countryman wrote:

 

   no words, no soul no hearbeat within in whidh i can feel  the

   reality-

   what is reality? am still lost in the middle of america

   -metaphoric more

   than real, as i am in the midst of not of west but new

   england....by

   which  return is by train is desolate plains with distant

   mountains in

   the backgrorund... (aware of typos, just dooj't  care)

   no words

   no wish to seek out memory

   memory is flawed beyond the memory of past and long term

   past..

   no memory

   or words to prompt memory

   lost soul

   don't send a quick memory trick

   or drug

   alone alone alone alone

   we are born (in my case to an incubator) alone

   and notwishstanding bardos,

   still   believe we die alone

   alone

   alone

   alone

   my toiiet has just been unnplugged.

   i will treeasuure it' s unplllugging

   sarah who came with plunnger

   alone

   in the dark

   with shit  pouurijg out of the hole

   of the toilet

   no shit pours from me, leaving me stuck in the moment-

   sarah, serephin of plunger, i give thanks to you..

   something is broken

   broken

   it is not the toilet

   it is me

   and no sarah with pllunger can save mme

   goodnighmc

 

and what came from it:

 

#1

no words

 

no words

no soul

no heartbeat

    within which i can feel the reality

whose reality?

i am still lost in the middle of america

    metaphorically speaking

i'm still on that train

    crossing desolate plains

outside my window is desolate new england

    groaning under winter.

 

no words

no wish to seek out memory to help search

    memory flawed and out of time

don't send me a quick memory trick

or drug

memory present memory past

    i wish to hold them fast

        unremembered and out of time

 

we are born (in my case, into a case, incubator)

alone

alone alone alone

and we die alone

alone

alone

 

i die each day a thousand deaths

    in the gaps between no words

        and and the birth pangs of words wishing to be born.

 

#2

 

ode to seraphins and toilets

 

my toilet is being unplugged

i will treasure its unplugging

and sarah, who weilds the plunger

while i sit, alone in the dark

while my shit goes down the pipe

while i sit,

        shit pouring out of me

leaving me alone

    and stuck in the moment.

 

sarah, seraphin of plunger,

i give thanks to you and your love

but something is broken

    it is not the toilet

it's me

and not even the seraphin sarah can fix me

i sit,

broken

alone in the dark

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:11:42 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Lust of the flesh, ignorant craving

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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> David Bruce Rhaesa wrote:

 

> the source of the new testament writing here is quite different than

> that of Romans.  Saul/Paul is just a beat dude who had an epiphany.

> The

> Gospel of John is a slightly different matter.  The Book of John IMHO

> is

> by far the most interesting book in the colelction we call the Bible.

> It begins with the Logos and it seems that this connects with some of

> the questions concerning WSB's theories concerning Word as a Virus.

> What we get in translation as "The Word" is in the Greek "Logos" but

> this was a far more holistic term than mere logic and contained

> something similar to the many sides of beat and beatific in its

> difficulty to pin down in translation.  It is perhaps the ultimate of

> the viral that the symbol of Logos has been translated to Word even

> capitalized.

 

Just one thing to note here, the passage that Timothy quoted is from the

first letter of John (1John), not the book of John, although both are

concerned with the Word, capitalized.  It seems to me that "suffering is

caused by desire (or craving)" and the "lusts of the flesh" are very

similar.  Both require a denying of the ego and worldly things in order

to lead a more spiritual life.  Both imply that an experience of the

eternal is here now by seeking a more spiritual existence apart from the

physical one.  To pursue an endulgement of the self, physical

gratifications, the craving of desires, puts one out-of-balance with the

spiritual plane.

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:03:46 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Lust of the flesh, ignorant craving

Mime-Version: 1.0

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>Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:

>>

>> First off we have discussed the First Noble Truth:

>> (I really enjoyed everyone's posts on this subject)

>>

>> All Life is Suffering

>>

>> and compared with:

>>

>> Rom. 8:22   For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in

>> pain together until now.

>>

>> The second is:

>>

>> Suffering is caused by desire  (or craving)

>>

>> How does this correspond with:

>>

>> 1John 2:16   For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the

>> lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of

>> the world.

>>

>> How similar are ignorant craving of the second Noble truth and the lusts of

>> the flesh of the new testament?

>

>the source of the new testament writing here is quite different than

>that of Romans.  Saul/Paul is just a beat dude who had an epiphany.  The

>Gospel of John is a slightly different matter.

 

Remember that lust of the flesh is a common theme among many NT writers.

 

Paul, Peter and John all use the phrase and terminology.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:34:17 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Storm and Outburst,

              Tempesta e Impeto Re: "Sturm und Drang" and Beat

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.PMDF.3.95.980126140624.17715C-100000@uoft02.utoledo.e du>

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Sara wrote:

(...)

>I've always wanted to compare the Sturm und Drang works with the American

>Beat-generation works, because Beat could be considered a later, American

>"Sturm und Drang" period.

>

>                         Sara Feustle

--

Sara, the influence of letters on writing something different

(i.e. a novel) is a long (european) tradition/fiction. i think

it's worth to dig the italian background of JK's lit as the german.

in "On the Road" the protagonist is Sal Paradise. in the italian

translation (1959) the surname was italianized as Paradiso,

what beautiful homage! and Sal is the nickname of Salvatore

the true name of Sal Paradise is Salvatore Paradiso.

Salvatore is the name of Jesus and Paradiso was of course the

Paradise (heaven) connected with spiritual catholic heir.

 

strange matter, Ginny, the italian beat was preceded by music

singer and Carmen Villani is the first, the literary storm was

circa a ten years later. at Castelporziano in 1979 Allen

Ginsberg, William S. Burroughs, Gregory Corso was the lit side

of the movement but there's a good point to think that

the end of italian beat was at late 60s' and have is root during

the early 60s in now unknowed guys... those people in 1979 were

already disapparead behind the curtain... and Italy was broken

up with ultra leftism (Bologna 1977) really a Storm (i dunno if

someone remember the Red Brigades), and a revival of beat in 1979

at Castelporziano beach (near Rome). i was in Bologna in 1977 but not

at Castelporziano cuz of in the italian political scene the beat

was the drop in of the movement (countercultural). i think a beat

really influenced the italians was the "poeta addormentato"

named Jack Keroauc...

btw is there some the Beat-Ls who were at Festival della Poesia di

Castelporziano in the 1979 summer... i was living in the woods...

 

cari saluti a tutti voi gentili amici, e scusatemi lo sproloquio,

Rinaldo.

--

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:55:40 +0000

Reply-To:     tkc@zipcon.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>

Organization: art language wholsale retail

Subject:      Re: Last Time I committed Suicide: The Prologue

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David Bruce Rhaesa wrote:

>

> "Some believe Neal Cassady to be the real genius behind the beat

> movement.

>

> ...<snip>...

> 2)  The Legend of Cassady preceded his coming to New York in On the

> Road.  I had asked on the List for any information about the legends

> attributed to Hal Chase (Harr????) by Jack Kerouac in the opening pages

> of On the Road with no reply.  It seems that such grapevine attributions

> of the legend which preceded Neal would hardly be accurate but would

> likely be much more tales of Denver very similar to those depicted in

> the film.

....<snip>.....

> dbr

 

see the early pages of charters' kerouac letters for jack's letters to

hal chase.  see early pages of cassady/ginsberg letters, as ever.  see

early pages of kerouac's visions of cody for what might be real denver

stories, or kerouacian fictions.  the tape, part 2, of visions of cody

is neal talking about his teen years in denver. his letters in the first

third including the joan letter tell of these times.  these represent

pretty accurately what neal was up to during the war years

 

hal chase and neal met in the denver library in the summer of 45.  hal

was older than neal and had been in the service before going to columbia

and rooming with allen g before meeting kerouac.  he saw neal's reform

school letters to justin briarly and went out of his way to introduce

kerouac and cassady.

 

much new work about neal in denver will be released soon....

 

tkc

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:20:34 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         IDDHI <IDDHI@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Tempesta e Impeto, god and Golden Eternity

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In a message dated 27-Jan-98 10:44:15 AM Pacific Standard Time,

rinaldo@GPNET.IT writes:

 

<< and Italy was broken

 up with ultra leftism (Bologna 1977) really a Storm (i dunno if

 someone remember the Red Brigades), and a revival of beat in 1979

 at Castelporziano beach (near Rome). i was in Bologna in 1977 but not

 at Castelporziano cuz of in the italian political scene the beat

 was the drop in of the movement (countercultural). i think a beat

 really influenced the italians was the "poeta addormentato"

 named Jack Keroauc... >>

 

Rinaldo,

 

Se noi tutti non fossimo la Dorata Eternita non saremmo qui. Poiche siamo qui

non possiamo non essere puri. Dire all'uomo di essere puro a causa di un

angelo punitore che puisce i cattivi e un angelo remuneratore che ricompensa i

buoni sarebbe come dire all'acqua "Sii bagnata." Cio nonstnte, tutte le cose

dipendono dalla realta suprema, che e gia fissata nel reistro del destino

guadagnato col Karma.

 

In English:

Stare deep into the world before you as if it were the void: innumerable holy

ghosts, buddhies, and savior gods there hide, smiling. All the atoms emitting

light inside wavehood, there is no personal separation of any of it. A

hummingbird can come into a house and a hawk will not: so rest and be assured.

While looking for the light, you may suddenly be devoured by the darkness and

find the true light.

 

Kerouac was Catholic, and embraced the saints and suffering of that. Kerouac

was Buddhist, and embraced the Tao and Zen of that, including the first law:

suffering.

 

I often wonder how it feels to live in a country upon whose soil war was

fought, whose people were so abused by their earthly rulers in the 20th

Century, and how all those conflicting events and religious upbringing

affected a young man like yourself.

 

My wars were simply witnessing the wars of others, civil rights and antiwar

protests, abuses of power that led to downfall of leaders and assassinations,

but no public hangings (and wasn't Mussolini hung upside-down, as he was so

completely despised? forgive my ignorance of history. i'd have to look it up).

 

How did you come to the Beats? How do you relate to Kerouac's Catholicism and

Buddhism? How does Italy "understand" the Beat Generation?

 

Sorry I don't speak Italian. I hope you can understand what I'm asking and

will forgive my arrogance in desiring your reply in English.

 

"Questa legge di verita non ha maggiore realta del mondo..."

 

Maggie

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:23:13 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         IDDHI <IDDHI@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Tempesta e Impeto, damn it, a correction

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Sorry, sorry, sorry, Rinaldo et al, I put the wrong translation under that

passage.

 

Il sona stupido!

 

If we were not all the golden eternity we wouldnt be here. Because we are here

we cant help being pure. To tell man to be pure on account of the punishing

angel that punishes the bad and the rewarding angel that rewards the good

would be like telling the water "Be Wet"-Never the less, all things depend on

supreme reality, which is already established as the record of Karma earned-

fate.

 

Maggie

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:31:26 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Ken Ostrander <kenster@MIT.EDU>

Subject:      Re: maggie cassidy

Mime-Version: 1.0

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>i heard somewhere (can't remember now where) that kerouac went back to

>lowell for a visit when he was getting into his alcoholic phase, and

>that he went to visit 'maggie cassidy' (mary carney????) after not

>seeing her for over ten years, and that he was drunk when he went to

>visit her.

>

>can anyone out there provide more details?  I"d be interested in how she

>reacted to a drunken jack after all those years...

 

 

this morning on the train i read this in _desolation angels_:

 

        I wake up in the middle of the night and remember Maggie Cassidy

and how I might have married her and been old Finnegan to her Irish Lass

Plurabelle, how I might have got a cottage, a little ramshackle Irish rose

cottage among the reeds and old trees on the banks of the Concord and

woulda worked as a grim bejacketed gloved and bebaseballhatted brakeman in

the cold New England night, for her and her Irish ivory thighs, her and her

marshmellow lips, her and her brogue and "God's Green Earth" and her two

daughters - How I would have laid her across the bed at night all mine and

laborious sought her rose, her mine of a thing, that emerald dark and hero

thing I want - remember her silk thighs in tight jeans, the way she folded

back one thigh under her hands and sighed as we watched Television together

- in her mother's parlor that last haunted 1954 trip I took to October

Lowell - Ah, the rose vines, the river mud, the run of her, the eyes - A

woman for old Duluoz?  Unbelievable by my stove in desolation midnight that

it should be true - Maggie Adventure -

 

 

KEN

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:59:07 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         IDDHI <IDDHI@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: maggie cassidy

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FROM MAGGIE CASSIDY:=0A"Oh shut up=97Oh Jacky come home have Christmases =

with me=97never mind all this=0Acharivary=97fancy fanfares for nothing=97=

I'll have a rosary in my hand at least=97to=0Aremind you=97Little snowfla=

kes'll fall on our pretty roof. Why do you want these=0AFrench windows? W=

hat are the towers of Manhattan to you that needs love in my=0Aarm every =

night from work=97CAn I make you happier with powder on mychest?.... I=0A=

shoulda never let you go far away from home=97" Rich lips brooded in my d=

eaf=0Aear....=0A"You shoulda never left home to come here I dont care abo=

ut anybody says about=0Asuccess and careers=97it wont do you no good=97Yo=

u can see it with your own=0Aeyes=97And lookit her with her fine and fanc=

y ways, I bet she's as balmy as the=0Aday is long and they have to spend =

thousands a dollars on bug doctors for=0Aher=97you can have em brother=97=

so long. =97Huh" she concluded, through her throat,=0Awhich throbbed, and=

 I kissed her and wanted to devour her every ounce of her=0Amysterious fl=

esh every part hump rill hole heart that with my fingers I'd=0Anever even=

 yet known, the hungry preciousness of her, the one never to be=0Arepeate=

d altar of her legs, belly, heart, dark hair, she unknowing of this,=0Aun=

blessed, graceless, dull-eyed beautiful.=0A=0A=0ASeems to me Kerouac want=

ed Maggie in a way he never wanted anyone else. But I=0Athink Maggie also=

 represented a stability (boredom) he wasn't ready for then.=0AHe spent m=

any years trying to reconcile his artistic desire for freedom on his=0Ate=

rms with his deep need to be loved by a woman, the same woman, every day.=

=0A=0AFROM VISIONS OF GERARD=0AI curse and rant nowadays because I dont w=

ant to have to work to make a living=0Aand do childish work for other men=

 (any lout can move a board from hither to=0Ayonder) but=92d rather sleep=

 all day and stay up all night scrubbling these=0Avisions of the world=85=

=0AArguments that raged later between my father and myself about my refus=

al to go=0Ato work=97"I wanta write=97I=92m an artist"=97"Artist shmartis=

t, ya cant be supported=0Aall ya life=97"=0A=0A=0AThe irony is that he en=

ded up taking care of his mother after his father died,=0Anot that she to=

ok care of him. And I honestly believe the last time he=0Amarried, his wi=

fe was as close to his ideal of Maggie Cassidy as she could be=0A(since t=

hey were both middle-aged and his mother was an invalid). By all=0Aaccoun=

ts, Lowell-girl Stella didn't powder her chest, had no patience with=0AJa=

ck's New York friends, and made for him a loving, stable, protected home,=

=0Aeven to the extent of caring for Memere.=0A=0AKerouac could never have=

 sustained the "real" Maggie Cassidy, but her female=0Asurrogate was his =

third and last wife, although I'll bet Stella never knew=0Athat.=0A=0AI t=

oo would love to know if Maggie Cassidy was Mary Carney, and if her=0Adau=

ghter was Kerouac's. I read somewhere that the daughter refused blood tes=

ts=0Abecause she didn't want to know if he WAS her father, didn't want an=

ything to=0Ado with him? This is a branch of Kerouac scholarship that I h=

aven't seen=0Aexplored with any productive results.=0A=0AMaggie (not Cass=

idy, in fact, not even Maggie, but Irene) D'Arma=0A

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:05:11 +0000

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: maggie cassidy

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Thanks, Ken, for this beautiful passage from Desolation Angels.  A beautiful

rendering of a long womanless man in the complete isolation of mt. lookout,

remembering a dream of a woman.  But let me offer a somewhat contrarian

reaction to this passage in contrast to the other Maggies'.  Rereading the

passage brings me up against what I always run up against in Jack's women.

There is very little sense of reality here.  Evocative romantic visionary bits,

but rather like an adolescent who has grown into a wonderful writer without

leaving behind his adolescent view of women. He remembers her Irishness, "silk

thighs," "marshmellow lips" and his dream of how perfect life would be if this

dream were his. .  The writing is gorgeous, but if you extract the descriptive

phrases they are (with  the exception of "that emerald dark and hero thing",

and "ah the run of her, the river mud, etc")  the language of bubble gum rock.

Maggie, as a living, breathing person is not here at all.

 

I would contend that for Jack there never was a women who matched his mother,

the love of his life, as he says in Big Sur and elsewhere.  The other women

with whom he is involved are either elevated beyond all reality or whores.  In

much of his life Jack was a man/boy.  This was  tragedy in his life.  His work

survives this failure to grow except by growing into alcoholic desperation.

But I don't find any very well realized women in Jacks work.  And he generally

does better by far by the whores than he does by the angels. Of course Leslie

Fiedler used to argue that this was true of  American novelists pretty much sui

generis.

 

>

 

 

 

>         I wake up in the middle of the night and remember Maggie Cassidy

> and how I might have married her and been old Finnegan to her Irish Lass

> Plurabelle, how I might have got a cottage, a little ramshackle Irish rose

> cottage among the reeds and old trees on the banks of the Concord and

> woulda worked as a grim bejacketed gloved and bebaseballhatted brakeman in

> the cold New England night, for her and her Irish ivory thighs, her and her

> marshmellow lips, her and her brogue and "God's Green Earth" and her two

> daughters - How I would have laid her across the bed at night all mine and

> laborious sought her rose, her mine of a thing, that emerald dark and hero

> thing I want - remember her silk thighs in tight jeans, the way she folded

> back one thigh under her hands and sighed as we watched Television together

> - in her mother's parlor that last haunted 1954 trip I took to October

> Lowell - - A

> woman for old Duluoz?  Unbelievable by my stove in desolation midnight that

> it should be true - Maggie Adventure -

 

 

 

> Ah, the rose vines, the river mud, the run of her, the eyes

 

 

 

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<HTML>

Thanks, Ken, for this beautiful passage from <U>Desolation Angels</U>.&nbsp;

A beautiful rendering of a long womanless man in the complete isolation

of mt. lookout, remembering a dream of a woman.&nbsp; But let me offer

a somewhat contrarian reaction to this passage in contrast to the other

Maggies'.&nbsp; Rereading the passage brings me up against what I always

run up against in Jack's women.&nbsp; There is very little sense of reality

here.&nbsp; Evocative romantic visionary bits, but rather like an adolescent

who has grown into a wonderful writer without leaving behind his adolescent

view of women. He remembers her Irishness, "silk thighs," "marshmellow

lips" and his dream of how perfect life would be if this dream were his.

.&nbsp; The writing is gorgeous, but if you extract the descriptive phrases

they are (with&nbsp; the exception of "that emerald dark and hero thing",

and "ah the run of her, the river mud, etc")&nbsp; the language of bubble

gum rock.&nbsp; Maggie, as a living, breathing person is not here at all.

 

<P>I would contend that for Jack there never was a women who matched his

mother, the love of his life, as he says in <U>Big Sur</U> and elsewhere.&nbsp;

The other women with whom he is involved are either elevated beyond all

reality or whores.&nbsp; In much of his life Jack was a man/boy.&nbsp;

This was&nbsp; tragedy in his life.&nbsp; His work survives this failure

to grow except by growing into alcoholic desperation.&nbsp; But I don't

find any very well realized women in Jacks work.&nbsp; And he generally

does better by far by the whores than he does by the angels. Of course

Leslie Fiedler used to argue that this was true of&nbsp; American novelists

pretty much <U>sui generis.</U>

<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE>

&nbsp;

<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I wake

up in the middle of the night and remember Maggie Cassidy

<BR>and how I might have married her and been old Finnegan to her Irish

Lass

<BR>Plurabelle, how I might have got a cottage, a little ramshackle Irish

rose

<BR>cottage among the reeds and old trees on the banks of the Concord and

<BR>woulda worked as a grim bejacketed gloved and bebaseballhatted brakeman

in

<BR>the cold New England night, for her and her Irish ivory thighs, her

and her

<BR>marshmellow lips, her and her brogue and "God's Green Earth" and her

two

<BR>daughters - How I would have laid her across the bed at night all mine

and

<BR>laborious sought her rose, her mine of a thing, that emerald dark and

hero

<BR>thing I want - remember her silk thighs in tight jeans, the way she

folded

<BR>back one thigh under her hands and sighed as we watched Television

together

<BR>- in her mother's parlor that last haunted 1954 trip I took to October

<BR>Lowell - - A

<BR>woman for old Duluoz?&nbsp; Unbelievable by my stove in desolation

midnight that

<BR>it should be true - Maggie Adventure -</BLOCKQUOTE>

&nbsp;&nbsp;

<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Ah, the rose vines, the river mud, the run of her,

the eyes</BLOCKQUOTE>

&nbsp;</HTML>

 

--------------3ACADCEB3CEB33AFB3A45919--

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 18:21:12 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: sturm und drang

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.PMDF.3.95.980127071925.28551A-100000@uoft02.utoledo.e du>

Mime-Version: 1.0

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What was the period when Sturm und Drang was published.

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 18:33:50 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         IDDHI <IDDHI@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: maggie cassidy

Mime-Version: 1.0

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In a message dated 27-Jan-98 1:29:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, kenster@MI=

T.EDU=0Awrites:=0A=0A<< How I would have laid her across the bed at night=

 all mine and=0A laborious sought her rose, her mine of a thing, that eme=

rald dark and hero=0A thing I want >>=0A=0AAnd to James (and thanks from =

me, too, Ken, for finding Maggie in Desolation=0AAngels) --=0A=0AI think =

you're mostly right about Kerouac's inability to maintain a woman, or=0Aw=

hatever it was. And though I've long thought of Kerouac as kind of weak a=

nd=0Aunattractive, his writing of erotica (like the passage above, and th=

e one I=0Asnipped in my last letter) certainly makes me feel all warm in =

the right=0Aplaces. He did have that virgin or whore sort of classificati=

on toward women,=0Aundoubtedly brought on my terminal catholicism, and I =

wonder if sex in=0Amarriage was ever "good" for him.=0A=0AWe've spent a l=

ot of time talking here about Kerouac's encounters with other=0Amen, whic=

h makes some sense to me based on libido and a sense of masturbation,=0Aa=

nd the "circle jerk-off" phenomenon I've heard so many male friends talk=

=0Aabout (which amazed me, since I've never even been invited to masturba=

te with=0Aone or more other women, but it almost seems a rite of passage =

for boys. But=0Athat's another topic, I'll bet, and mysterious to me, so =

I'll leave it for the=0Atime being to talk heterosexual love). Jack did h=

ave a lot of sex, it seems,=0Aand a lot of fantasies about sex, with wome=

n and at least once I know of, with=0Aa child (which doesn't make him a p=

edophile by any stretch of an imagination,=0Asince it came to him in a dr=

eam, and who doesn't dream against his will or=0Abetter judgment?)=0A=0AI=

 think he was mostly driven by his alcoholism, and my experience with tha=

t=0A(as the owner of a bar) is that it is the surest way to become a bad =

lover,=0Anot to mention a stable husband or father or partner in any cont=

ext.=0A=0AThe common thing I find in all his behaviour (and I'm no expert=

 on him or=0Aanyone) is that he couldn't "do" but he was a master at "say=

." And his=0Awriting, young or old, IMO, was always childlike, whether it=

 concerned his=0Alibido or his religion, but not in the least immature. R=

ather, it was like he=0Awas captured, "forever young" forever restless, f=

orever filled with desire=0Athat he was able to write about to awaken us =

all. I guess he was unharnessed=0Aenergy, for lack of a better term. A ma=

rried Kerouac probably would have=0Awritten about politics or something, =

not "Praise a woman=92s legs, her golden=0Athighs only produce black nigh=

ts of death, face it=97Sin is sin and there=92s no=0Aerasing it=85"=0A=0A=

Maggie=0A

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 18:45:47 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sara Feustle <sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>

Subject:      Re: sturm und drang

In-Reply-To:  <3.0.5.16.19980127161757.09d71cf6@mail.wi.centuryinter.net>

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>From about 1770 to 1790.

 

At 06:21 PM 1/27/98 -0500, you wrote:

>What was the period when Sturm und Drang was published.

>

>Mike Rice

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:48:49 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Preston Whaley <paw8670@MAILER.FSU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: quote search

Mime-Version: 1.0

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>On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, David Bruce Rhaesa wrote:

>

>> Preston Whaley wrote:

>> >

>> > A week or so back someone posted the following quote by Burroughs:  "All

>> > agents defect, and all resisters sellout." Does anyone know the source?

>> >

>> > Thanks,

>> >

>> > Preston

>>

>> i tried several forms of searches at Bigtable database with no luck.

>>

>> dbr

>>

>Should have used the concordance. It's on page 205 of whatever edition of

>Naked Lunch Luke used to compile the concordance. The link to the page on

>his site is:

>http://www.bigtable.com/library/naked_lunch/205.html

>

>Thanks again to Luke for putting up such a great resource.

>

>Neil

 

 

Thanks, Neil.

 

Preston

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:07:27 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         TKQ <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: maggie cassidy

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I need to clear something I wrote earlier...kerouac was not well recieved by

Mary Carney in the 1960's, not Mr. Chaput. Part of the reason was Kerouac

acted like it was still in the 1930's when in fact Mary Carney had a husband

and it was the 1960's. Part of this was his idealism of her and also a

drunken spontaneous visit which did not go over well. Paul...

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 Jan 1998 00:38:16 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Re: Wittgenstein? (and Nietzsche)

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.PMDF.3.95.980125091804.570990369A-100000@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>

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On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Jeff Taylor wrote:

 

 

> You know, I've often wondered why Nietzsche isn't mentioned more often

> in connection with WSB, or in WSB's own work. There seems to be a much

> more organic similarity with Nietzsche than with Wittgenstein. Not

> least because N also cited HiS's motto:

>

>    When the Christian crusaders in the Orient encountered the

>    invincible order of Assassins, that order of free spirits *par

>    excellence*, whose lowest ranks followed a rule of obedience the

>    like of which no order of monks ever attained, they obtained in

>    some way or other a hint concerning that symbol and watchword

>    reserved for the highest ranks alone as their *secretum*: "Nothing

>    is true, everything is permitted."--Very well, *that* was *freedom*

>    of spirit; in *that* way the faith in truth itself was *abrogated*.

>    Has any European, any Christian free spirit ever strayed into this

>    proposition and into its labyrinthine consequences? has one of them

>    ever known the Minotaur of this cave *from experience*?--I doubt

>    it....  (_On the Genealogy of Morals_ Third essay, section 24)

 

Although one would have a hard time considering Burroughs a "Christian

free spirit", he certainly strays into the proposition and its

labyrinthine consequences in _The Cities of the Red Night_, where each

city holds a different convolution of the proposition. Personally, I'm not

familiar with much Nietszche, so I can't really say all that much on

he and wsb (I've only read "Thus Spake Zarathustra", and that was many

moons ago...)

 

 

Back to Language:

 

Jeff wrote:

 

> When WSB attempts to cut the control lines by getting beyond words, he

> must, qua writer, still use words. Here again I think Nietzsche may be

> of more help, with his notion of "self-overcoming": "All great things

> bring about their own destruction through an act of self-overcoming"

> (Genealogy of Morals, 3rd essay #27)--in other words, the very forces

> that made a thing what it is are the very same forces that eventually

> bring about that thing's movement beyond itself. For Nietzsche, it is

> the *value* of truth, when its consequences are followed out to

> the end that throws into question truth itself, and thus leads to

> the realization that "Nothing is true...."

>

> So in WSB: the power and logic of language is brought to turn against

> itself. But with Witt., it's not even clear that one language-game can

> meaningfully talk about another language-game. The most you could ever

> say about this from a Wittgensteinian perspective is that WSB simply

> switched language-games, leaving all others untouched. No friction.

>

> So if we are to avoid both this situation, as

> well as the claim that WSB simply contradicts himself by *writing*

> about the end of language, we would need a different, more powerful

> interpretive framework: N's conception of self-overcoming, perhaps.

> So it appears to me that Nietzsche contains, perhaps, much more

> powerful resources for helping us to undertand WSB's work than

> Wittgenstein.

 

I'm not sure that a "different interpretive framework" is necessary.

Burroughs was not writing *about* the end of language, he was writing to

*bring about* the end of language. He recognized the impasse this brought

about (Skerl notes this, from correspondance with wsb), and succumbed to

it in his return to narrative in The Wild Boys. The cut-up trilogy stands

as a monument to one man's struggle with the Word virus, or in Lacan's

formulation, to break free of the prison house of language:

 

"[...]language and its structure exist prior to the moment at which each

subject at a certain point in his mental development makes his entry into

it[...] the speaking subject too, if he can appear to be the slave of

language is all the more so of a discourse in the universal moment in

which his place is already inscribed at birth, if only by virtue of his

proper name. Reference to the experience of the community, or to the

substance of this discourse settles nothing. For this experience assumes

its dimension in the tradition that this discourse itself establishes."

(Ecrits: A Selection, 248)

 

Burroughs' prison-break ultimately fails, although in systematically

disrupting the syntactic and authorial basis on which writing rests he

ruptured the tradition of discourse. The problem is that the rupture is

only temporary (time-bound), for the universal discourse absorbs the

singularity, and language rules again: in Burroughs' formulation the Word

forces us into our bodies, inscribes us in shit and Time, and there ain't

no escape lessen you figure out how to get into Space.

 

Neil

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:23:37 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Herbert Huncke

Mime-Version: 1.0

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Right now, Im reading the Herbert Huncke Reader, which I got for Chanukah

and its very interesting to see how casually he refers to the more famous

members of the BG. He never uses AG's last name but refers to 'Allen'

quite often and its obvious who he is talking about. Also, the references

to 'Bill' or 'Old Bull Lee'. Its a really good book. What do you all

think?

~Nancy

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:38:31 +0300

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Organization: smiling small thoughts

Subject:      Beat-Bob  (was Re: backbeat)

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Marie Countryman wrote:

>

> bob kaufman

>

> SLIGHT ALTERATIONS

>

i must admit even more than my usual ignorance about this intriguing

poet.

can anyone out there provide background/biographical insights and/or URL

locations to learn about this Beat-Bob?

 

thanks in advance,

dbr

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:09:25 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      BOB KAUFMAN

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no quick post can really explain this very complex man. i recommend

highly CRANIAL GUITAR which has a very well written, researched intro by

david henderson, edited by our very own gerald nicosia.

here's another to whet yr appetite:

 

WAITING

 

SOME WHERE THERE WAITS, WAITING

A BOOK IS WAITING, WAITING,

TO BE WRITTEN,

COLD COLD PAGES WAITING,

TO BE WRITTEN,

MAN SEEKS GOD,

IN A BOOK.

 

SOMEWHERE THERE WAITS, WAITING

A PICTURE WAITS, WAITING,

WAITING TO BE PAINTED

COLD COLD CANVAS.

WAITING TO BE PAINTED.

MAN SEEKS GOD IN A PICTURE.

 

SOMEWHERE THERE WAITS, WAITING

A WOMAN WAITING, WAITING,

TO BE LOVED, WAITING,

COLD COLD WOMAN,

WAITING TO BE LOVED,

MAN SEEKS GOD IN A WOMAN.

 

SOMEWHERE THERE WAITS, WAITING

A MAN IS WAITING, WAITING,

COLD COLD MAN, WAITING,

TO BE WANTED, WAITING.

MAN SEEKS GOD

IN  MAN

 

SOMEWHERE THERE WAITS, WAITING

A BABY IS WAITING, WAITING.

WAITING , WAITING TO BE BORN,

COLD COLD BABY, WAITING,

TO BE BORN BLOOD OF EARTH,

WAITING TO BE.

MAN SEEKS GOD,

IN A BABY.

 

WIND, SEA,

SKY, STARS,

SURROUND

US

 

BOB KAUFMAN

 

 

ps to jo grant: all caps are kaufman's   :)

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:12:23 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Preston Whaley <paw8670@MAILER.FSU.EDU>

Subject:      Sturm and Drang

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

If this post does make not it through this time the third time destiny is

against it.  Sorry it's late.  But in addition to Kerouac;s sturm and drang

reference in OTR: "The only people for me are the mad ones . . . ," he

subtitled Dr. Sax, one of his best,  Faust part III.  The Part III

indicates supplimentation of that Sturm & Dranger Goethe' version.  Maybe

this is an obvious pt., but no one has mentioned it.

 

Here's an 18th century Faustian desire to live hot like those burn,  burn,

burning "roman candles. . . ."

 

Plunge into time's whirl that dazes my sense,

Into the torrent of events!

 

The reeling whirl I seek, the most painful excess,

Enamored hate quickening distress.

Cured from the craving to know all, my mind

Shall not henceforth be closed to any pain,

And what is portioned out to all mankind,

I shall enjoy deep in my self, contain

Within my spirit summit and abyss,

Pile on my breast their agony and bliss,

And thus let my own self grow into theirs, unfettered,

Till as they are, at lastI, too, am shattered -- from Faust: The Tragedy.

 

 

 

Interesting that he asks this of the only one who can grant it --

Mephistopheles.

 

Preston

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 Jan 1998 20:03:39 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: sturm und drang

In-Reply-To:  <3.0.1.32.19980127184547.006a78a4@uoft02.utoledo.edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

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At 18.45 27/01/98 -0500, you wrote:

>>From about 1770 to 1790.

>

>At 06:21 PM 1/27/98 -0500, you wrote:

>>What was the period when Sturm und Drang was published.

>>

>>Mike Rice

>>

>

>

Excuse me Mike and Sara, but as a recall Ugo Foscolo

has as epigraph in his novel _Last letters of Jacopo Ortis_

 

                        Naturae clamat ab ipso

                        vox tumulo

from Th. GRAY Elegy written in a Country-Yard (1750)

 

                        Geme la natura

                        perfin nella tomba

 

                        The Nature groans even in the tomb

 

circa the goethe _Werther_ Foscolo refused to reply

to the Quarterly Review charded the novel as plagiarism.

Ugo is much english lit oriented than goethe, if jump

out any link between sturm un drang and beat generation

please have a respect for this exiled son of italy so unlucky

and died young in london in the early 1800s'...

 

saluti,

Rinaldo.

-------

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:41:05 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Tempesta e Impeto, god and Golden Eternity

In-Reply-To:  <3b3f0d0a.34ce3384@aol.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

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Maggie wrote:

(...)

>My wars were simply witnessing the wars of others, civil rights and antiwar

>protests, abuses of power that led to downfall of leaders and assassinations,

>but no public hangings (and wasn't Mussolini hung upside-down, as he was so

>completely despised? forgive my ignorance of history. i'd have to look it

up).

>

>How did you come to the Beats? How do you relate to Kerouac's Catholicism and

>Buddhism? How does Italy "understand" the Beat Generation?

>

>Sorry I don't speak Italian. I hope you can understand what I'm asking and

>will forgive my arrogance in desiring your reply in English.

>

>"Questa legge di verita non ha maggiore realta del mondo..."

>

>Maggie

>

Maggie, thanx for the gently words (italian! & english) i'm very

glad to have your thought 'bout the so called "italian beat",

what is really happened was 'bout no connection among italian beat

and buddhism...

 

the starting question maybe was the "sturm und strang" as movement (in

the meaning of people) looking for a new world (of course there's

no acceptance of assasination of bad men, and ezra pound was right

to call italians barbaric toward ben mussolini and clara petacci,

hanged, and pound was something like a friend to allen ginsberg)...

 

when in 1979 Ginsberg, Burroughs & beats were in italy at Castelporziano

was similar when Ginsberg in the chicago convention have to OM

the people stopping violence. but Italy in those times was very

politicized country, and the Poetry Festival was great but the

"italian beat" no more existed. the meeting was a failure and

Burroughs stated that the CIA was involved (sabotage) when the

american beats were besieged by a bunch of italian poets on the stand.

the stand falled down & everything collapsed. summer 1979 in Rome,

i dunno why Ginsberg and Burroughs dont tell about this meeting

in their journals...

 

me Rinaldo im 47 old near to turn 48, im' persuade that my life was

sucked and exploited, this sad news whirl in my mind and

heart. Jack Kerouac was appreciated in the 60s' and his

look was "il poeta addormentato" meaning that the man is

sleeping together with his poetry. Maggie u are right:

 

        2

The awakened Buddha to show the way, the

chosen Messiah to die in the degradation (...)--jack kerouac

                                              the scripture

                                              of the golden

                                              eternity

maybe Jack chose                        my idea

the Messiah and                 is that

charging himself                        catholi

to die really in                        c never

animate form                    became other than a catholic (gesuitic?)

                                        maybe this'nt my idea but a bukowski

                                        meaning of life (am i wrong?)

                                        another catholic beat...

 

Jack Kerouac mori' improvvisamente

        nel 1969 all'eta' di 47 anni.

Jack Kerouac died suddenly

        in 1969 at 47.

 

in italy there's little chance for buddhism and the kerouac

literature is so appreciated because of his catholic roots

he was loved by people who falled in the shadows in the turn

of the 60. Jack Kerouac was in italy to meet the pope and a

to lead the way to bob dylan syndrome.

 

perhaps im                              I am empty, I am non-existent

very too s

ad aged an                              So be sure

s tired an

d damned b                              jk

ut i notic

ed the gre

en weed

 

spero di non avervi annoiato con queste mie righe sto solo

cercando di capire come il passato e' visto dal presente e

che davvero ALL IS WELL...

 

un caro saluto a tutti da

Rinaldo.

-------

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:20:51 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         IDDHI <IDDHI@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Tempesta e Impeto, god and Golden Eternity

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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In a message dated 28-Jan-98 11:14:50 AM Pacific Standard Time,

rinaldo@GPNET.IT writes:

 

<<

 spero di non avervi annoiato con queste mie righe sto solo

 cercando di capire come il passato e' visto dal presente e

 che davvero ALL IS WELL...

  >>

 

E tutto a posto, la forma e vuoto e il vuoto e forma, e noi siamo qui per

sempre, in questa o quella forma, che e vuota. E totto a posto, noi non siamo

qui, non siamo la e in nessun altro luogo. E tutto a post, i gatti dormono.

 

"Everything's alright, form is emptiness and emptiness is form, and we're here

forever, in one form or another, which is empty. Everything's alright, we're

not here, there, or anywhere. Everything's alright, cats sleep."

 

grazzi, rinaldo

 

maggie

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:14:55 +0300

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Organization: smiling small thoughts

Subject:      Re: Journal Night Thoughts

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Diane Carter wrote:

>

> > David Bruce Rhaesa wrote:

> >

> > This second poem in Planet News is quite an abrupt shift from "Who will

> > take over the Universe?"  It is political only in the sense that the

> > personal is the political.  It is intraspection on intraspection

> > entwisted cyclonically like a complete unknown visionary known to all

> > spaketh these words.

>

> There's so much in this poem that it hard to find a beginning topic for

> discussion.  Agreed that the poem moves to the personal and the

> visionary, a cosmic universe as opposed to a political one  Things that

> stand out to me are:  that it begins and ends in bed--I would almost say

> that in the love of the human body at the end, the poet finds the

> redemption that eludes him in the visions in the poem.

 

It seems that while the first poem provides an extreme portrait of the

poet's exterior universe, the second presents an intense photograph of

the poet's interior universe.  The images of body of skin and flesh

being the exterior border of the interior universe.

 

just 1 cent,

dbr

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:22:54 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeffrey Scott Holland <jholland@ICLUB.ORG>

Subject:      WSB, Wild Boys, Word=Virus

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On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Jeff Taylor wrote:

>

> > When WSB attempts to cut the control lines by getting beyond words, he

> > must, qua writer, still use words.

 

=== Which is why I am extremely disappointed that WSB never took the

next step into totally opaque communication, a la Joyce's "Finnegan's

Wake".

 

 

 

> Burroughs was not writing *about* the end of language, he was writing to

> *bring about* the end of language. He recognized the impasse this brought

> about (Skerl notes this, from correspondance with wsb), and succumbed to

> it in his return to narrative in The Wild Boys.

 

=== But the Wild Boys have their own language; so Burroughs is at least

writing about *sidestepping* conventional language.

 

 

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Jeffrey Scott Holland

somewhere in the wilderness of Kentucky

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:31:24 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Carl A Biancucci <carl@WORLD.STD.COM>

Subject:      Baltimore bookstores

In-Reply-To:  <v01540b00b0eb8e8463ee@[146.201.2.29]> from "Preston Whaley" at

              Jan 21, 98 07:41:57 am

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Hi.

I'm going to Baltimore in June,and am hoping to

find some good new and used bookstores.

Are there any Beat Baltimorians out there who

could help?

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:21:45 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>

Subject:      more beats on jeopardy!

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

another beat question on jeopardy! today....

Category: "Author's odd jobs"...."He was a bartender,

private detective, and exterminator before he wrote Naked Lunch"

they got it right, fortunately

 

*******

Jeff Taylor

taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

*******

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 Jan 1998 20:08:45 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "POMES, PENNY EACH." <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject:      Marek Hlasko

 

Has anyone read the Polish writer, Marek Hlasko? He's great, best known for his

novel, KILLING THE SECOND DOG (1965). He has been called a "Polish Beat writer"

for what that may be worth, I think the Beat reputation might stem from his

death; an overdoes of pills and booze. He also wrote THE EIGHTH DAY OF THE

WEEK. His themes do run along Beat lines, disenchanted youth, rebellion, etc.

I simply find him a fine writer and worth looking up. KILLING THE 2nd DOG is

available through Cane Hill Press.

 

Comments on this guy? BTW, he died the same year as Kerouac, 1969.

 

Dave B.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:16:36 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Kimberly Yang <kjyang@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      critical essays

Content-Type: text/plain

 

Hi Everyone.

 

I'm writing an essay about Kerouac and his novels.  Do anyone know where

I can find critical essays about his work?  Thanks a lot!

 

Kim

 

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